Many consider Poroshenko to a puppet. He is. But more correctly he is a
Neoliberal Comprador not that different from, say, Frau
Merkel. But from the other point of view, you can't lead a neoliberal state and be free from the
dominance of the USA as a center of the neoliberal world, who controls the world financial system.
You need to be a debt salve and as such will be looted by transnational financial institutions.
That was clearly achieved in Ukraine
where standards of living dropped to sub-Saharan Africa levels and are close to a dollar a day
(approximately 750 hrivna a month) for certain categories of population, especially pensioners. In 2008, only 47 percent of the
population of sub-Saharan Africa lived on $1.25 a day or less. (United Nations 2012).
Germany in this story acted like a real neo-imperial power using the smoke screen of "democracy"
to achieve imperial goals -- get the new markets for German industry. It's the same behaviour
it demonstrated with Greece: pay the debt poor Ukrainians.
The threat to the Bank was explicit enough. Alastair Crooke wrote: “And The Wall Street Journal
in a front page tap on Angela Merkel’s shoulder- reminding her to vote “yes” on the next “level-3″
round of Russian sanctions- warned that “Deutsche Bank’s US operations suffer from a litany
of problems…” The WSJ article is behind a pay wall.
Nude pictures? a lesbian? a murky past? Those are nothing that a little spin can’t take care
of as pointed out above. Merkel serves at the pleasure of the German elites and she would be
thrown under the bus if she became a serious liability. Merkel is not the problem.
The US
has Germany by the short hairs for sure but its not through some personal scandal. The US may
[have] a kill switch on the Germany/EU financial system. Further speculating, all that NSA spying
may have led to discovery of vulnerabilities in the German financial system, again as mentioned
above.
The US seems to have the ability to inflict massive pain on Germany, its elites and its general
population to account for German obedience. It seems likely to be a financial bludgeon that
the US is ready to swing. The blow back could take down the US financial system but, the Anglo
elites will still do quite well in a material sense and that is the only thing that matters.
France is also not that much different. Russia while neoliberal power in itself was actually the
most benign "neocolonialist" among the troika. Poland has its own neoimperial goals too.
US is much worse then all Europent neolocolinialists put togather. It really control
Ukranina goverment as puppets. As an example of such views we can cite the opinion of the Pro-Russian leader of the coalition of
NGOs "Eurasian choice - Georgia" Archil Chkoidze. Here is what he said about Poroshenko and his cabinet:
"This is controlled by the Americans puppet government, and their hands are used for carrying
out genocide of the Russian people. The government Poroshenko is very similar to the former
government of Georgia led by Saakashvili. In 2008, the authorities of Georgia did the same
when they bombed Tskhinvali,"
Being controlled does not explicitly means that they need to pursue suicidal economic policy. But
Provisional government in its nationalistic intoxication
did exactly that launching ATO and forever splitiing the country. Yatsenyuk and Turchinov should
probably be tried before high court for the betrayal of the country. Another comment from Guardian
Scipio1 -> MonsieurPetanque, 09 July 2014 1:05pm
''It is also noteworthy that the word “junta” has disappeared from Russian state media’s
descriptions of the government of Ukraine.
And in turn from the lexicon of many posters here.''
You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. Interesting report from the
BBC man in Slavyansk yesterday. It ended with the journalists observing that in addition to
the Ukrainian flag being hoisted, there was also the black and red flag of Pravy Sektor
on view. Of course I will be diplomatic and call them by their name of convenience, to
wit the National Guard. I wonder what these gentlemen are up to? social work perhaps? Or winning
hearts and minds?
Funny, what comes to my mind is 'disappearing' now that the atrocity de jour - incinerating
your opponents a la Odessa is temporarily off the agenda.
Two points to make about Poroshenko:
He is not making the decisions, the US State Department and CIA are.
His invasion of the East is a nasty, kid-killing exercise, example of the type of
ideological total war which is not uncommon in this part of the world.
In literal terms he may not be a Nazi but he certainly has them at his back domestically
baying for blood which he needs to satisfy (having first cleared it with his Washington
masters of course.)
In terms of ending the war, how do you seal a frontier - Russian/ Ukraine 1500 miles long.
It is foolish to imagine that the Don Bass people are not going to fight on. There will be no
agreement without their consent and Putin and Porshenko had better realise this. Big power decisions
taken over the heads of people seldom leads to peace.
A good analogy has been the British struggle against the nationalists in Ireland. Whatever
they Republic did to aid the process of the British campaign - closing the border, outlawing
the IRA, imprisoning nationalist in the south - the IRA continued their campaign for decades.
Eventually the British authorities had to negotiate an uneasy peace conceding many points.
Ruling by force alone never works and the legitimate concerns of the local people need to
be addressed. However, Poroshenko and his Washington masters have brushed this aside with their
brutal campaign in the east. The scene is now set for an on-going low intensity war with no
visible end in sight.
Against, being a stooge of US embassy is not bad per ser. You can somewhat play on contradictions
within State Department and its obsessive desire to hit Russia as hard as possible. Moreover,
most European politicians are now to a certain extent US puppets for the simple reason the USA is the most
powerful country in neoliberal world, the center of neoliberal empire. Pax Americana.
Whether this is a fatal flaw or hidden advantage much depends on the level of talent of particular
politician. The USA as the most powerful country in the world can do a lot of good for "client" country
with proper "encouragement". For example you get more free access to tremendous amount of valuable US
technical "know how". Which is a big competitive advantage. US companies also invest more readily in
the country which is "in good relations" with Washington.
Adoption of English language as an official or "semi-official" language and requirement for government
workers to pass an exam in this language also can dampen the animosity between Ukrainian nationalists
and Russian speaking population of the South East (actually there are not two but three main languages
in Ukraine -- Western Ukrainian dialect, Russian language and
Surzhyk -- mixed dialect widely used
in rural areas of central provinces such as Kiev and Poltava as well as in border areas of Moldovia)
.
Conversion of Russian school into English schools is definably more acceptable then conversion to
Ukrainian schools, as depth and breadth of Ukrainian culture can not compare with depth and breadth
of Russian culture, but Anglo-Saxon culture can compete with Russian culture on its own merits. It is
a dominant world culture in addition to being world technological powerhouse. The word "Silicon Valley"
and Hollywood resonate in Ukraine no less then in other countries. And that create strong attraction
to such a culture and such a country. Also all countries can borrow quite a bit from the US law and
law practice, especially in such areas as the fight with organized crime.
But you need certain level of flexibility and to have own political base to operate in this mode.
And being simultaneously hostage of Right Sector Poroshenko lacks this flexibility. This make him somewhat
tragic figure. the Problem is that Poroshenko can and would like to find a political settlement South-East
crisis, but the pressure from radical forces him to rely on force.
Poroshenko was the financier of February coup d'état and as such he was a shadow member of junta
from the very beginning. Previously he also financed Orange revolution and was one of "lyubi drizy"
-- corrupt inner circle of President Yushchenko.
Presidential elections in 2014 had shown that he does enjoy support of Western Ukraine. But that's
was given and is not a news. At the same time elections were conducted during civil war unleashed by
Turchinov and does not validate the illegal or outright criminal activity of the kangaroo Rada. They
are also questionable by themselves due to a low turnout, lack of proper alternative candidates, lawlessness
of the country, pressure of Right Sector thugs, and most probably outright fraud in counting the ballots.
The main purpose of those Presidential elections was to legitimize junta. And the first significant
events of his presidency was dramatic intensification of civil war of South East (capturing Slavyansk
and several other cities and then cutting Donetsk from Lugansk and
shooting down of Malaysian flight
MH17?
Many European observers suggest that Poroshenko himself and Poroshenko government (aka "junta in
chocolate") are not independent in its actions and actually controlled by the United States. This is
true only to a certain extent. It's also under control of Right Secor which only partially is controllable
by State department and has political agenda of its own, which is distinct from the idea of neoliberal
globalization promoted by state department. And I suspect that this is why generally neoliberal tandem
of Turchinov (aka Trupchinov) and Yatsenyuk (aka Yats) were forced to start bloody campaign for pacification
of South East. This idea that Poroshenko himself and his government politically are squeezed between
US embassy and Right sector and are hostages of far right elements is also popular in pro-Russian part
of media space (which does not makes them untrue; as usual, those, who do not like Poroshenko and junta
are much more objective in judging his and junta actions and political environment in which they operate
;-).
In any case election of new president changes little in the political course of the government both
internally and externally. Poroshenko simply continued nationalistic hysteria and the dangerous cause
of junta on South East started by Turchinov-Yatsenyuk tandem attempting to wipe out rebels by indiscriminate
shelling, air bombardment and by usage of tanks and heavy artillery such as Grad multiple launchers.
As a result confederate forces (calls pro-Russian rebels in Western MSM, although large part of them
do not want to join Russia but just wants autonomy from Kiev) got the same types of weapons and manage
to hit Kiev army and supporting par-military nationalist formations with them causing heavy losses.
He also rejected federalization of the country and granting Russian language the status of the second
state language.
In this sense the idea that Poroshenko can manage to stop the bloodshed in the South-East is hard
to believe. While probably not completely subservient in all areas of internal policy, in this particular
sphere President is most probably a complete marionette which doesn't decide anything. May be personally
he would be glad to stop the war, but he is afraid that in this case he would immediately need to change
his place of residence like Yanukovich in the past.
He also influenced by (and very afraid of ) the "Party of War" and first of all by extremists from
the Eight Sector and National guard. The latter consists mainly of far right elements. Units of local
Lords like Kolomoisky, Lyashko, Timoshenko and others who gathered around himself fanatics, thugs, and
lumpens can be called death squads. To make this analogy stronger there are foreign mercenaries in the
ranks of the National Guard. Especially numerous are Swedish far right fighters.
Kolomoisky represent a painful thorn in the back of Poroshenko. Army of Kolomoisky is financed by
the state and by Kolomoisky, but they report directly to him, not Poroshenko. The same is true for foreign
mercenaries hired by Kolomoisky. It is not clear whom Right sector obeys, but it is also partially financed
by the same Kolomoisky.
How Poroshenko in this situation can stop the fighting? Moreover Kolomoisky openly said that he will
not follow the order Poroshenko to provide ceasefire. He will not stop fighting until he wipe from the
earth, these terrorists. It turns out that Poroshenko controls only to a small part of the army.
Next. Poroshenko can't stop the war and to make concessions to the militia, it would mean that he
did not keep his word to his voters. Please consider that the Maidan wants the war to a victorious end.
If he will yield to the opposition, then he betrayed those who are around him.
And he will get the next Maidan. They are probably not happy that released this Genie out of the
bottle in the form of the Right sector, with which they are no longer are able to cope because they
do not report to anyone. It is a terrible situation for Poroshenko, but this is a fact.
...Following his election as Ukraine’s President, the Podolian “Shokoladni Tsar” Poroshenko
inherited the so-called “anti-Terrorist operation” from the Yatsenyuk government. Poroshenko seems
to want to end the conflict and has vocally sought to reach out to his Russian-speaking compatriots
in the Donbas. Yet at the same time, he appears restrained in what he can do, and at times
even appears to even endorse the controversial “anti-Terror” campaign that has thus far cost hundreds
of lives, including many civilians. There are at least three reasons for this.
One is that the 2004 Orange Revolution constitution was restored in Ukraine, which effectively
means that the Ukrainian parliament, the Rada, has more power than Poroshenko. Therefore, by
law, Poroshenko is limited in what he can do.
The second problem that Poroshenko faces is the fact that the “anti-Terrorist operation” is led
by a disparate assortment of groups including Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor) and other far-right
militants, the Maidan self-defense forces, oligarch-financed militias (effectively “private armies”),
and (allegedly) mercenaries from other countries. The regular Ukrainian army, with defections and
desertions, has proved to be unreliable for Kiev. Therefore, to “reign in” the rebels, it relies
on these “independent” groups and militias. The problem with this strategy is that the latter are
truly “independent” and thus it is difficult for Poroshenko to command them to “stop,” even though
he is now calling for a cease-fire.
Finally, Poroshenko is under pressure from rival political forces, primarily the Batkivshchyna
party and its leader Yulia Tymoshenko, who has threatened to launch “another Maidan” if Poroshenko’s
presidency proves to be a disappointment. In a concerning development, the usually pro-Western
and liberal Batkivshchyna now appears to be co-opting itself with Ukraine’s nationalists. In fact,
since this crisis commenced, nationalism and Russophobia appear to have become increasingly prevalent
within the Ukrainian political elite; though it is doubtful that these attitudes reflect the popular
sentiment of the vast majority of Ukrainian people.
Will Poroshenko be reelected?
The process of distancing from Russia was common for all post-Soviet republics and actually was caused by the mere fact of
acquiring independence. That it took such a self-destructive form in Ukraine is many ways the net result to Washington
geopolitical machinations (supported by Germany, Poland and Sweden).
The key problem is not EuroMaydan nationalist "revolution" per se, but that fact that Ukrainian nationalists proved to be
neoliberal compradors. Ukraine became the debt slave of the West. Under neoliberal neocolonialism this is a very stable
condition that guarantees that the standard of living of people will not improve. The country will be sacked dry. So Ukraine
is an example of "Latin-Americanization" of post Soviet space -- that policy that Washington actively implemented since 1991.
After huge initial success with puppet Yeltsin regime, they failed to weaken and dismember Russia further due to ascendance of
Putin. But for all other republics it was pretty successful neocolonial policy. They now have military bases in few of those
republics and most of them are debt slaves of IMF and World bank. In a way EuroMaydan signified the finishing touches of
conversion of this region into dent slaves.
Neoliberal Washington was turned into an oligarchy, an autocracy run by Davos billionaires. Their “liberty” and
democracy was an early example of Orwellian Doublethink. It was to destroy everybody else’s liberty so they could grab whatever they
could, enslave the debtors and create the polarized hostile to each other countries in post-Soviet state that are easily
controlled ("divide and conquer" strategy along with "Full Spectrum Dominance" mantra and neoliberal "Washington Consensus"
method of enslavement). Ukraine is the most glaring example of this enslavement --the country with Central African level
of poverty. It is very similar how Roman oligarchy behaved -- the Roman oligarchy accused anyone of supporting debtor rights
and opposing its land grabs of “seeking kingship.” Such men were murdered, century after century. It seems that unless there’s a
Hammurabi-style “divine king” or some elected civic regulatory authority arise, local neoliberal oligarchies arise and help to
exploit their societies by Washington as much as they can, while trying to prevent the country from defending itself. In few
countries like Hungary far right ascendance slowed down this process, but for how long is unlearn as global
finance is controlled from London and Washington and can crash any individual country like a bug.
The Romans brutal "mission civilisatrice", can be viewed as to install local oligarchy and kind of "financialized" economy
in other countries. For performing this service, the imperial power takes all the money that its colonies can generate.
Washington is not different. That’s why the US meddles in foreign politics of other countries, as we have just seen in Ukraine,
Libya and Syria.
This overgrowth of debt under neoliberalism is highly destabilizing. Financial oligarchy have broken free of tax liability and
are enriching themselves not by helping the overall country economy grow and raising living standards, but just the opposite: by
getting the country into bigger and bigger debt. This is the essence of Poroshenko regime -- corrupt comprador oligarchy.
So there is no surprise that everybody hates Poroshenko and even huge "administrative resource" and personal wealth did not
help him to get more then 15% of votes in the first round (of which 5-10% are probably fraudulent). That's typical for any
neoliberal president who stand for re-election in a debt slave country.
But it is important to to note that this Washington marionette made the economic situation in Ukraine much worse that
the situation existed under Yanukovich (which was also corrupt as hell).
Another interesting feature of the current situation is that the role of Israel in EuroMaydan now open to review.
An interesting and funny detail is proliferation of modern "Children of lieutenant Schmitt" -- Holocaust survivors in
Ukraine. People who were born in 1945, the first post-war generation, are now 75, right ? And life expectantly for
this generation is probably 65 for men and 75 for women.
MH17, I had originally thought was a US ploy, but a lot of stuff points to Britain. I
think Britain pulled that stunt, no doubt coordinated with factions in the US, and it was
enough to tip the balance in the US - to force the US into action who then put pressure on
the Euro vassals.
Where the US oligarchy is a bit divided, not much of an incident is required by perfidious
albion to tip the balance.
Bellingcat is in the middle of the GRU/Czech arms depot explosion story from 2014 - now
being described as "defacto act of Russian state terrorism on a NATO soil."
It appears the GRU were following closely a movement of arms from the Czech depot to a
Bulgarian middleman, meant to be then delivered to Ukraine. The explosion is now attributed
to the GRU because of the Petrov/Boshirov ID, and their presumed signature ineffectiveness
failing to destroy the arms cache and later failing to kill the Skripals.
Time is in Russia's favor: let the Ukraine continue to serve as a financial black hole to
the IMF. Let the Western Ukrainians continue to emigrate en masse to Poland and then to the
rest of the EU and the UK. Russia has already received some 1 million Eastern Ukrainian;
those are probably the more well-educated, more productive Ukrainians, ...
Posted by: vk | Apr 11 2021 1:20 utc | 77
This is rather sketchily related to reality.
1. Ukraine is not a "black hole for the IMF". They got a smallish credit, and now they are
being denied extensions on rather preposterous grounds, and Ukraine is charged for the unused
credit line. Contrary to Nulands boasting, the West keeps Ukraine on a leash with a rather
skimpy budget.
2. There is no clear distinction between migration patterns. The one time I was in Russia,
the tourist guide on a one-day bus trip was from Rivne -- in Poland in years 1918-39. And as
Polish medical workers go to Spain etc., Ukrainian once fill the vacant positions, and they
may come from any place. Ditto with the "quality of workers". Poland has more of seasonal
jobs in picking crops (while Poles do it further West) than Russia, Russia perennially seeks
workers ready to accept extra pay in less than benign climes. The closest to truth is
scooping engineers and highly qualified workers from factories that before worked for Russian
market, including military, replaced with Russian factories and, when needed, Ukrainian
know-how. That is pretty much accomplished -- predominantly from the Eastern Ukraine. As a
result, the remaining workforce is so-so from east to west.
Scenes from the US Capitol on Wednesday, as protesters backing President Donald Trump
disrupted the joint session of Congress meeting to certify the election of Democrat Joe Biden,
looked very much like Belgrade in October 2000
.
The sight was later repeated in Ukraine – twice, in 2004 and 2014 – Georgia,
Moldova, Belarus, and several Central Asian former Soviet republics. On every occasion, the US
backed the "people power," because American NGOs and embassies were supporting what
became known as "color revolutions."
Same thing happened in 2011 with the "Arab Spring" that started in Tunisia and then
burned its way across North Africa to the Persian Gulf. In some places it "succeeded,"
overthrowing decades-old governments. In others it failed, setting off wars in Libya and Syria
and blood on the streets of Bahrain. Again, the US cheered this on as democracy – except
for Bahrain, which hosts a major naval base.
More recently, the US denounced as illegitimate the presidential elections in Belarus,
Bolivia and Venezuela. While Minsk and Caracas managed to resist – and got sanctioned for
it – the "democrats" in La Paz were successful for a while, but ended up losing the vote
last year.
Way back in 2004, the Guardian wrote approvingly about how the
US has created a "slick" operation of "engineering democracy through the ballot box and
civil disobedience," developing since Belgrade a "template for winning other people's
elections."
Now the same mainstream media that slavishly followed the State Department line in
denouncing elections elsewhere as "rigged" and color revolutions as spontaneous
democracy are clutching their pearls when Americans who believe their election was stolen take
to the streets and storm their Capitol.
Ah, but this election wasn't stolen, they'd say – it was pure as driven snow, "most
secure ever," all the experts who told us for four years the previous one was "hacked by
Russia" tell us so! And Joe Biden won the most votes in history while hardly leaving his
basement. Whether you believe this official narrative about the US election or not doesn't
really matter, however. Partisan myopia simply won't let people understand the magnitude of
what is on display here: utter moral bankruptcy of the entire US political and media
establishment.
Republicans and Democrats alike used "color revolutions" as a political weapon for
years, preaching democracy even as their astroturfed coups snuffed out any vestiges of it that
might have developed organically. Over the past year, they've done so at home as well, using
Covid-19 lockdowns to abolish elementary constitutional rights, culminating with changing the
electoral rules to better serve "our democracy," defined as whatever gets them
power.
What did they think people would do when all avenues of airing their grievances were closed
off? Meekly submit – or take a page out of the same playbook the politicians and the
media spent 20 years celebrating?
Don't go "but Trump," either. The supposed Nazi fascist dictator himself ordered
National Guard and police to clear out the protesters who sided with him, and protect the
establishment that did not. He's a real Hitler, right? No matter, expect the media to paint him
as such anyway.
Perhaps the US ought to take a long, hard look at its own house before it continues calling
out, sanctioning, regime-changing or bombing other countries over their supposed lack of
"democracy." Maybe actually answer the question Russian President Vladimir Putin asked at
the UN back in 2015, addressing the consequences of the 'Arab Spring': "Do you realize now
what you have done?"
But we all know that's not going to happen, don't we?
Money quote: "First thing to do when 'unrest rears its ugly head' is shut down external
communications and kick out any of the Five Eyes operating an embassy in your country. It
happnens so often."
The most unfortunate aspect of these large scale disruption and regime change operations
exploit actual grievances and truly indigenous civil society reform movements, thereby
compromising even the most authentic efforts by the people. Not only that but this casts
serious doubt on both authenticity and goals of all kind of demonstrations and civil
unrest, even in more developed countries, including ostensibly First World.
Take the HK demonstrations for example - how much of it was real, genuine unrest caused
by this or that more heavy handed China policy? truth is we don't know because by
definition, the exploitation of such protest movements - almost always led by supposedly
disaffected youth - includes a very sophisticated propaganda handbook that seeks to
effectively "erase" the controlling hands behind the scenes.
Or, even the BLM movement - a lot that happened with these protests seem to jive with
the instruction manuals per the ARK. Notice how these could be turned on and off - in this
or that city, made to appear organic, when in fact those invisible hands from behind
directed much of the action.
Another aspect that is very noticeable for both the HK and BLM movements is the way they
were directed at some very specific issue that most people would have a hard time
disagreeing with - on its face. Be it political "freedom", new "rules", new "taxes" and/or
police brutality - there are numerous commonalities - too many to dismiss as mere
coincidences.
At the same time, much care seems to have been taken to not allow these protests to be
directed at the actual ruling class, the 1%, the elites, big finance and the
corporatocracy. I always thought it was kind of funny the way these BLM protesters somehow
were not there when Bernie sanders ran his campaign, even though Bernie had their
grievances near the top of his list on the official platform (police brutality, uneven
criminal justice system and prison reform were huge issues for him). Yes, there were plenty
of black youths who voted with the Sanders movement in the primary (the one that was
basically a fraudulent one, due to outright vote flipping, as was exposed by several
credible analysts). But the BLM protests only came into being following the one GF killing
and were directed mostly against police in large cities, and, of course against anything
the federal government could try and do.
Now that Biden is all but declared as 'elect", those protests have died down (except for
a few flare-up points like Portland, where they seem to have taken permanent residence).
Funny that....must be that the "defund the police" was successful and black people no
longer suffer from unequal law enforcement.....so all is well now.....
Sometimes I thought something like this happened in Libya. Libyan army cleared this
town, that city, next town, moving east to west, then just before Benghazi, we get our
consent manufacturing message that Gaddafi said there would be a slaughter in Benghazi. So
NATO just had to attack, to save Benghazi.
After Libya was smashed, turns out a whole gang of British "diplomats & SAS" were in
Benghazi.
thanks b! informative... this ARK is not noahs or boris's... who is behind this grand
scheme?? it seems the idea of keeping lebannon and syria in a state of tension is the
goal.. whose purpose does this serve? it seems like an agenda written in tel aviv, or is it
washington?? who is behind all this?? it seems clear enough that the goal is to coddle
israel... take this money and make sure israel continues to dominate in the middle east and
all other countries are destabilized basket cases... these are sick people behind all
this.. that much is very clear... who would spend money like this??
the really shocking thing is the UK gov't is in on it, but don't want it to appear this
way.. the people in the UK sure are a weird lot.. i think they are weirder then the people
in the USA!
ARK (Analysis Research Knowledge) has a website and its founder, former British diplomat
Alistair Harris has a LinkedIn account you can look up on Google or whatever search engine
you normally use. The company is based in Dubai.
Among ARK's various activities in Syria was managing the Facebook page and probably
other PR for the White Helmets. The propaganda surrounding Bana Alabed and other Syrian
children seems to be of a type similar to White Helmets propaganda - designed to appeal to
people's emotions, particularly women's emotions - so there is a possibility all this
rubbish was being generated by the same organisation.
In the end the target audience for all this propaganda is us, as our support is needed
to justify an eventual US or NATO invasion of Syria and Lebanon.
First thing to do when 'unrest rears its ugly head' is shut down external communications
and kick out any of the Five Eyes operating an emmbasy in your country. It happnens so
often. Kick Out the Five Eyes (I live in one of them). Media Communications (the industry I
work in) is the publicly acceptable term for Information Program, Propaganda, Information
Warfare. It's all the same thing, with Event Management being the sister of and information
program.
I've worked in both areas; external media communications programs and event
coordination and management , often dovetailing the two and switching between roles in
order to 'maximise stakeholder value' for the benefit of the client. Who is the
client..? If the client isn't obvious then Follow the money. It is always the person
paying the bill. Follow the money people... follow the money and you will understand the
objectives of even the most obtuse communications programs.
As an aside, with all the hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons being pumped into
the MENA, 'no one in Government' is able to 'shut down the wars. It's a joke, Government
can track your spending down to the last cent and hit you up with a fine for 'incorrect tax
return' but they 'can't follow the hundreds of billions of dollars' in weapons that gets
flown around the world. Follow the money people. Follow the money and you'll catch the
culprit.
Selfishness may be exalted as the root and branch of capitalism, but it doesn't make you
look good to the party on the receiving end or those whose sympathy he earns. For that, you
need a government prepared to do four things, which each have separate dictums based on study,
theorization, and experience. Coercion: Force is illegitimate only if you can't sell it.
Persuasion: How do I market thee? Let me count the ways. Bargaining: If you won't scratch my
back, then how about a piece of the pie? Indoctrination: Because I said so. (And paid for the
semantics.)
Predatory capitalism is the control and expropriation of land, labor, and natural resources
by a foreign government via coercion, persuasion, bargaining, and indoctrination.
At the coercive stage, we can expect military and/or police intervention to repress the
subject populace. The persuasive stage will be marked by clientelism, in which a small
percentage of the populace will be rewarded for loyalty, often serving as the capitalists'
administrators, tax collectors, and enforcers. At the bargaining stage, efforts will be made to
include the populace, or a certain percentage of it, in the country's ruling system, and this
is usually marked by steps toward democratic (or, more often, autocratic) governance.
At the fourth stage, the populace is educated by capitalists, such that they continue to
maintain a relationship of dependency.
The Predatory Debt Link
In many cases, post-colonial states were forced to assume the debts of their colonizers. And
where they did not, they were encouraged to become in debt to the West via loans that were
issued through international institutions to ensure they did not fall prey to communism or
pursue other economic policies that were inimical to the West. Debt is the tie that binds
nation states to the geostrategic and economic interests of the West.
As such, the Cold War era was a time of easy credit, luring postcolonial states to undertake
the construction of useless monoliths and monuments, and to even expropriate such loans through
corruption and despotism, thereby making these independent rulers as predatory as colonizers.
While some countries were wiser than others and did use the funds for infrastructural
improvements, these were also things that benefited the West and particularly Western
contractors. In his controversial work Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, John Perkins reveals
that he was a consultant for an American firm (MAIN), whose job was to ensure that states
became indebted beyond their means so they would remain loyal to their creditors, buying them
votes within United Nations organizations, among other things.
Predatory capitalists demand export-orientations as the means to generate foreign currency
with which to pay back debt. In the process, the state must privatize and drastically slash or
eliminate any domestic subsidies which are aimed at helping native industry compete in the
marketplace. Domestic consumption and imports must be radically contained, as shown by the
exchange rate policies recommended by the IMF. The costs of obtaining domestic capital will be
pushed beyond the reach of most native producers, while wages must be depressed to an absolute
bare minimum. In short, the country's land, labor, and natural resources must be sold at
bargain basement prices in order to make these goods competitive, in what one author has called
"a spiraling race to the bottom," as countries producing predominantly the same goods engage in
cutthroat competition whose benefactor is the West.
Under these circumstances, foreign investment is encouraged, but this, too, represents a
loaded situation for countries that open their markets to financial liberalization.
S
o first neoliberal plunder the
country dry and then they offer hope of "Eurointergation" as a carrot and organize a color revolution to overthouth the government.
Is not this brilliant?
A
nd as people want ot live "as in
Europe" (often without understanding realities and seeing only tourist facade of the countries) this desire can become a door opener
of the color revolution.
Another factor is that neoliberalism lifts the standard of living of top 10% or 5 % of the population and create powerful fifth
column of compradors oriented on the West (a part of programmers and IT workers, large part of other well-paid professionals (such
as corporate lawyers, medical professionals, etc), naive or crooked students, employees of joint ventures, etc) who can be relied on
during the protest. Social network also simplify organization of frustrated underachievers and net hamsters for the protests.
Notable quotes:
"... From Ukraine's Euromaidan in 2014, we know that hope can be rather deceptive and elusive. It hovers within touching distance during protests and is an additional incentive, but it never becomes a reality. Disillusionment and frustration do not set in until it is already too late, by which time power has fallen into the hands of those who immediately tighten the screws and have no intention of discussing anything with the people. ..."
Colour revolutions and other forms of outside interference in state affairs are changing. This is both logical and natural, since
government bodies adapt to change, find ways to counter threats, and retain the right to use legitimate force, which, according
to Max Weber, is one of the features of the modern state. But no sooner do the world's leading centres for interference and
destabilisation start feeling for new vulnerabilities in state systems than there is yet another attempted coup or an attack on a
state system. This kind of instability is not desirable for any country, since it could gradually weaken the immunity of
sovereignty. As a consequence, the transformation of protest movements should be of particular interest since, by understanding
their development, it will be possible to predict protesters' and rioters' course of action. The protests in Belarus show that
this is not what happened there, and the authorities were forced to respond quickly to the situation.
For an adequate understanding of anti-government strategies, it is necessary to turn, first of all, to the methods used by those
organising the protests and coups.
In his article "
Protests
and Principles
", Srđa Popović, a well-known activist, organiser of colour revolutions and executive director of CANVAS,
writes that the ideological and geopolitical factors focussed on by the media are insufficient to fully understand what's going
on and evaluate the protests. He suggests paying attention to the structural conditions that differ in different countries, as
well as the outcomes of movements. Popović concludes that the protests in recent years have shown a certain trend – "the
traditional and institutional ways of creating change – elections, legal systems and dialogue with the elites – are
insufficiently effective. So protesters have decided to utilize another form of power to force constructive change."
Executive
director of CANVAS Srđa Popović
Further on, he asks: "If geography and ideology don't determine success, what does?" He outlines four key principles. One – a
clear vision of the future. Two – a united opposition that should have a good understanding of who its allies are and who is
neutral. Three – key pillars, which could be the media, business sectors, social institutions and government agencies
(particularly security agencies that could be enticed over to the opposition). Four – attraction, which is a common element in
many protest movements, since they position themselves as fighters of injustice.
At the same time, Popović admits that anger (and therefore also violence) is an effective tool for mobilisation, but it should be
combined with hope, otherwise it will play a destructive role.
It
is with a regretful sigh that Popović writes about the failed "revolutions" in Hong Kong and Venezuela, for which he partially
blames the opposition. The problem with the former was the violence used against the police, and with the latter it was that Juan
Guaidó put all his efforts into winning over the military and overthrowing Maduro with a coup.
In summary, Srđa Popović argues that initial conditions and context matter, but strategic skills matter even more. And it is
difficult to disagree. After all, an initial flash of protest can be suppressed, activist cells can be liquidated, and crowds can
be dispersed. And if there is no definite plan of action for how to act in a given situation, then any protest, whether peaceful
or violent, will come to nothing.
Needless to say, the information in Popović's article is for naive readers and written with the utmost care so as to rule out any
possible accusations of anti-state activities. All the advice is given from the standpoint of protecting democratic values.
Therefore, one needs to be able to read between the lines and draw conclusions from past coups.
From Ukraine's Euromaidan in 2014, we know that hope can be rather deceptive and elusive. It hovers within touching distance
during protests and is an additional incentive, but it never becomes a reality. Disillusionment and frustration do not set in
until it is already too late, by which time power has fallen into the hands of those who immediately tighten the screws and have
no intention of discussing anything with the people.
CANVAS, however, is an organisation that develops strategic action plans for particular countries. Judging by its
recent
online summer academy
, CANVAS was actively involved in the overthrow of Bolivian President Evo Morales, supported protests in
Sudan, Zimbabwe and Brazil, and has close ties with opposition groups in Malaysia, the Philippines and Georgia.
Peter
Ackerman
Popović's views on the strategic planning of coups is shared by
Peter
Ackerman
, former chair of the board of trustees of Freedom House, and board member of the Council on Foreign Relations and
the NATO Atlantic Council. Ackerman believes that "
the
talented execution of even the simplest nonviolent tactics can alter the psychology of a population and the behavior of a regime
."
He also believes that the consolidated efforts of hundreds of small organisations can have a cumulative effect and make it look
like there is a unity of opinion and effort. This explains why, in Ukraine, the West actively supported both the radical
nationalists and the liberals, which is basically like crossing a grass snake with a viper, given that these two groups have
radically different ideologies. A similar situation can be seen in Belarus, where the muscle was provided by home-grown
nationalists (symbolism associated with Nazi collaborators during the war was openly used at protests), while representatives of
sexual minorities were included on various opposition councils.
The
International
Center on Nonviolent Conflict
, which was founded by Ackerman and whose headquarters are in Washington, does similar work to
CANVAS. In partnership with Rutgers University (New Jersey), the centre has been running online courses for activists since 2012.
These not only cover the theory of protest movements and provide specific examples, but also adapt new techniques. It is
noticeable that the course developers are seeking out new frontiers in resistance movements – how to exploit culture and
religion, or how to target corporations (since corporations can be state-owned, by focusing on a problem related to the company's
activities, attention can then be turned to the government itself).
George
Soros's son Alexander Soros with Hashim Thachi
The activities of another institution, the United States Institute of Peace,
cover
52 states
, and, in a number of countries (such as China and Iran), they are carried out indirectly, using local agents and
manipulating facts to its advantage. Thus, a recent report on Russia's interest in conflict zones states that "
Russia's
activities in conflict zones usually directly or indirectly run counter to Western interests
." The truth, however, is that it
is the West's activities that run counter to the interests of Russia, which then has to respond in some way. Russia has no
military bases in the Americas, whereas there are NATO bases and US troops on Russia's borders. Russian troops are in Syria
legitimately, whereas US troops in the country are effectively occupiers.
The
Tavistock
Institute
in London is doing some fairly serious work in the field of social engineering and manipulation. Its main
activities are carried out under the ruse of supporting self-organisation and human relationships. Thus, the Tavistock Institute
began developing the sociotechnical systems theory in the 1950s, started putting it into practice in the 1980s, and is still
using it now. The proliferation of perverts around the world under the smokescreen of tolerance is largely due to this
organisation (an agenda being carried out under the politically neutral guise of "
Group
Relations
").
It can be seen from these examples that the locale for protest headquarters and for the systematic destruction of the foundations
of national identity is the same – the West, chiefly America.
Along with attempts to maintain tactical flexibility during protests, one can often see adjustments being made in response to the
circumstances. Thus, the slogan "Flowers are better than bullets" on the placards of Belarusian opposition groups is just a
reworking of the slogan "Food not Bombs" used in the decentralised anti-war campaign that originated in the US in the 1980s
before spreading to Europe. A branch of this movement appeared in Belarus in 2005 with the help of local anarchists. A feature of
the movement is the distribution of vegetarian food to the poor and the homeless. Depending on who is behind the campaign, local
political nuances are superimposed in a number of countries.
Bernard-Henri
Levy with former Belarus' presidential candidate Svetlana Tikhanovskaya
Many protest movements rely on creativity. So, on 14 April 2020, Polish feminists
blocked
the traffic
on one of Warsaw's main streets. Although the police issued large fines (upwards of €6,000) to many of the
activists, no one is going to pay them, and the blocking of traffic was explained by the guidelines of the authorities themselves
to observe social distancing of two metres due to the pandemic. In the end, and with the help of lawyers, the draft bills were
passed to parliament, and a special commission has been appointed to review them. Thus, the feminists killed two birds with one
stone: they managed to troll the government's quarantine measures and also hold a protest that drew more attention to their
activities (which are directed against conservatives, including for the legalisation of abortion and the support of sexual
minorities).
One should also not forget the activities of individuals aimed at the destabilisation of various governments. Usually, they do it
out of ideological beliefs, often using their own money and working with international contacts. One such individual is the
French neoliberal philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy, who actively supported coups in Yugoslavia and Ukraine, terrorists in Libya and
Syria, and is currently helping Belarus opposition leader Svetlana Tikhanovskaya, who lost in the country's recent presidential
election.
George
Soros and his son Alexander Soros
George Soros's son,
Alexander
Soros
, is diligently carrying on his father's work by serving as deputy chair of the Open Society Foundations. Recently, he
has been making frequent visits to the Balkans, where he has been seen in the company of many senior politicians. In addition to
Europe, Alexander Soros often visits Myanmar and is involved in projects in several African countries.
The activities of these people and organisations represent a multi-level international network with multiple dimensions of
communication and hidden strategies prepared with an eye to the future.
Therefore, to establish an adequate response mechanism to current and future challenges, the activities of these groups,
individuals and institutions must be monitored at the systemic level – constantly, thoroughly and comprehensively.
Reposts are welcomed with the reference to ORIENTAL REVIEW.
Geopolitical analyst, Chief editor of Geopolitica.ru, founder and chief editor of Journal of Eurasian Affairs; head of the
administration of International Eurasian Movement.
MH17 looks like a flashback to KAL007 to me, the evil is always Russian and every
where!
KAL007 was shot down by Russians, after some thousand kilometres in high sensitive Russian
air space partially shadowed by RC-135 spy plane. Extremely devilish!
Of course there are NO operational BUK systems and NO fascists in the ATO zone in east
Ukraine! And a SU-24 can't fly higher then 6km! Believe me, it's in Wikipedia!
"... The former Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the UAF Yury Dumansky stated on the air of the " NewsOne " TV channel that Kiev is guided by the decisions of the US concerning the question of resolving the conflict in Donbass ..."
Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard21:40:3211/04/2018ria.ru
The former Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the UAF Yury Dumansky stated on the air of the "
NewsOne " TV channel
that Kiev is guided by the decisions of the US concerning the question of resolving the
conflict in Donbass.
The demands of the President Petro Poroshenko concerning the deployment of UN peacekeepers
in the east of the country will directly be agreed with the special representative of the US
State Department for Ukraine Kurt Volker , stressed Dumansky.
"We are in the conditions of the negotiation process. Not we, Ukraine, but a third
external player who presents America – Volker – decides for us. And he solves the
problem with the Russian Federation at the level of negotiations," noted the
Lieutenant-General.
And it is only after, according to the military, that Poroshenko undertakes measures
coordinated with the US for the solving of the conflict in Donbass.
"And then the corresponding processes are launched -- what we observe directly -- the
president's trips to Turkey, Germany where one of the questions concerning solving this
conflict are being raised," noted Dumansky.
Kiev in April, 2014, started a military operation against the self-proclaimed LPR and the
DPR, which declared their independence after a coup d'etat in Ukraine.
The issue of solving the situation in Donbass is discussed also during contact group
meetings in Minsk, which since September, 2014, adopted already three documents regulating
steps to de-escalate the conflict. However, firefights between the parties of the conflict
still continue.
Now the Ukrainian authorities try to obtain the introduction of UN peacekeepers in the East
of Ukraine. According to Kiev, "blue helmets" should be deployed on all the territory of
Donbass up to the border with Russia.
Vladimir Putin supported the idea of sending a peacekeeping mission to the East of Ukraine.
However, according to him, their task includes only ensuring the security of OSCE staff, and
they have to be based on the contact line.
Karl Marx said that " Philosophers have hitherto only
interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it ." I doubt very much that
you will know which changes you need to make if you don't have a very good idea about your
starting point. In his book Factfulness and in his many excellent online presentations, the
late Swedish Professor of International Health Hans Rosling identifies a lot of the ways things
have gotten better , especially for the world's poorest.
Suppose, for example, that you encounter the name " Milton Friedman ,"
perhaps in connection with lamented "neoliberalism" and maybe in connection with human rights
abuses perpetrated by the brutal Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. Friedman has been denounced
as the "father of global misery," and his reputation has taken another beating in the wake of
the fiftieth anniversary of his 1970 New York Times Magazine essay " The Social Responsibility of Business is to
Increase its Profits ," which I suspect most people haven't read past its title. But what
happened during "The Age of Milton Friedman," as the economist Andrei Shleifer asked in
a 2009
article ? Shleifer points out that "Between 1980 and 2005, as the world embraced free
market policies, living standards rose sharply, while life expectancy, educational attainment,
and democracy improved and absolute poverty declined."
Things have never been so good, and they are getting better , especially for the world's
poor.
In 2008, there was a bit of controversy over the establishment of the Milton Friedman
Institute at the University of Chicago, which operates today as the Becker Friedman Institute (it is also named for Friedman's
fellow Chicago economist Gary Becker ). In a
blistering
reply to a protest letter signed by a
group of faculty members at the University of Chicago, the economist John Cochrane wrote, "If
you start with the premise that the last 40 or so years, including the fall of communism, and
the opening of China and India are 'negative for much of the world's population,' you just
don't have any business being a social scientist. You don't stand a chance of contributing
something serious to the problems that we actually do face." Nor, might I add, do you stand
much of a chance of concocting a revolutionary program that will actually help the people
you're trying to lead.
2. What makes me so sure I won't replace the existing regime with
something far worse?
I might hesitate to push the aforementioned button because while the world we actually
inhabit is far from perfect, it's not at all clear that deleting the state overnight wouldn't
mean civilization's wholesale and maybe even perpetual collapse. At the very least, I would
want to think long and hard about it. The explicit mention of Frantz Fanon and Che Guevara in
the course description suggest that students will be approaching revolutionary ideas from the
left. They should look at the results of populist revolutions in 20th century Latin America,
Africa, and Asia. The blood of many millions starved and slaughtered in efforts to "forge a
better society" cries out against socialism and communism, and
macroeconomic populism in Latin America has been disastrous . As people have pointed out
when told that "democratic socialists" aren't trying to turn their countries into Venezuela,
Venezuelans weren't trying to turn their country into Venezuela when they embraced Hugo Chavez.
I wonder why we should expect WLU's aspiring revolutionaries to succeed where so many others
have failed.
3. Is my revolutionary program just a bunch of platitudes with which no
decent person would disagree?
In 2019, Kristian Niemietz of London's Institute of Economic Affairs published a useful
volume titled Socialism: The Failed Idea That Never Dies , which you can
download for $0 from IEA . He notes a tendency for socialists and neo-socialists to pitch
their programs almost exclusively in terms of their hoped-for results rather than in terms of
the operation of concrete social processes they hope to set in motion (on this I paraphrase
my intellectual hero Thomas Sowell ).
Apply a test proposed a long time ago by the economist William Easterly: can you imagine
anyone seriously objecting to what you're saying? If not, then you probably aren't saying
anything substantive. Can you imagine someone saying "I hate the idea of the world's poor
having better food, clothing, shelter, and medical care" or "It would be a very bad thing if
more people were literate?" If not, then it's likely that your revolutionary program is a
tissue of platitudes and empty promises. That's not to say it won't work politically–God
knows, nothing sells better on election day than platitudes and empty promises–but you
shouldn't think you're saying anything profound if all you're saying is something obvious like
"It would be nice if more people had access to clean, drinkable water."
... ... ...
7. How has it worked the other times it has been tried?
Years before the Russian Revolution, Eugene Richter predicted with eerie prescience what
would happen in a socialist society in his short book Pictures of the Socialistic Future (
which you can
download for $0 here ). Bryan Caplan, who wrote the foreword for that edition of Pictures
and who put together the online " Museum of Communism ," points out
the distressing regularity with which communists go from "bleeding heart" to "mailed fist." It
doesn't take long for communist regimes to go from establishing a workers' paradise to shooting
people who try to leave. Consider whether or not the brutality and mass murder of communist
regimes is a feature of the system rather than a bug. Hugo Chavez and Che
Guevara both expressed bleeding hearts with their words but used a mailed fist in practice
(I've written before that "irony" is denouncing Milton Friedman for the crimes of Augusto
Pinochet while wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. Pinochet was a murderous thug. Guevara was, too).
Caplan points to
pages 105 and 106 of Four Men: Living the Revolution: An Oral History of Contemporary Cuba
. On page 105, Lazaro Benedi Rodriguez's heart is bleeding for the illiterate. On page 106,
he's "advis(ing) Fidel to have an incinerator dug about 40 or 50 meters deep, and every time
one of these obstinate cases came up, to drop the culprit in the incinerator, douse him with
gasoline, and set him on fire."
... ... ...
9. What will I do with people who aren't willing to go along with my
revolution?
Walter Williams once said that he doesn't mind if communists want to be communists. He minds
that they want him to be a communist, too. Would you allow people to try capitalist experiments
in your socialist paradise? Or socialist experiments in your capitalist paradise (Families,
incidentally, are socialist enterprises that run by the principle "from each according to his
ability, to each according to his needs.")? Am I willing to allow dissenters to advocate my
overthrow, or do I need to crush dissent and control the minds of the masses in order for my
revolution to work? Am I willing to allow people to leave, or will I need to build a wall to
keep people in?
10. Am I letting myself off the hook for questions 1-9 and giving myself
too much credit for passion and sincerity?
The philosopher David Schmidtz has said that if your best argument is that your heart is in
the right place, then your heart is most definitely not in the right place. Consider this quote
from Edmund Burke and ask whether or not it leads you to revise your revolutionary plans:
"A conscientious man would be cautious how he dealt in blood. He would feel some
apprehension at being called to a tremendous account for engaging in so deep a play, without
any sort of knowledge of the game. It is no excuse for presumptuous ignorance, that it is
directed by insolent passion. The poorest being that crawls on earth, contending to save
itself from injustice and oppression is an object respectable in the eyes of God and man. But
I cannot conceive any existence under heaven (which, in the depths of its wisdom, tolerates
all sorts of things) that is more truly odious and disgusting, than an impotent helpless
creature, without civil wisdom or military skill, without a consciousness of any other
qualification for power but his servility to it, bloated with pride and arrogance, calling
for battles which he is not to fight, contending for a violent dominion which he can never
exercise, and satisfied to be himself mean and miserable, in order to render others
contemptible and wretched." (Emphasis added).
A couple of lessons for Belarus, if it has a government capable of learning from the
mistakes of others rather than insisting upon making them itself before learning; the first
– Ukraine.
The Biggest Little Country In Yurrup has just voted, in an extraordinary meeting of the
Verkhovna Rada, to beg the EU for a further loan of $1.2 Billion. For that mess of pottage,
it will accept enhanced external governance.
"With this memorandum, Ukraine undertakes to increase the role of international
structures in the judicial system, law enforcement agencies, and state-owned enterprises'
executive boards (with the restoration of their cosmic salaries)."
Of course, that's the selfish Russian perspective; it comes from Stalker Zone. The
'reality' as Ukrainians see it might be a lot more lighthearted, like going on an adventure
with some foreign friends! And it might not even happen, considering the Ukrainian plan to
get half the money up front, without having to satisfy any of the conditions, although even
the full $1.2 Billion seems to me a bargain price to gain control of Ukrainian state
institutions. If I had $1.2 Billion lying around doing nothing, I might buy them myself.
When you think about it, it is amazing how willing eastern Europeans are to believe the
siren song of western capital investment, since as soon as they control the company, they
break it up and sell it, and the locals are left with nothing but western newspapers to keep
their bums from freezing. But it happens over and over.
It's the lottery mentality, most of the poor saps will only get poorer but the chance of
winning big (especially if you have a few connections) overwhelms logic and common sense. It
what makes capitalism so attractive – dreams of big wealth and leaving your poor slum
behind make the most miserable life somehow tolerable.
And it what makes socialism so boring – you may be, on average, better off but
little prospect for that life-changing jackpot.
There is more to it than that but the dreams of a big payday explains much of why so many
Eastern Europeans put up with, if not embrace, capitalism BS.
The carrot always seemingly just out of reach works for most until the day you die. And if
you do reach the carrot, you will soon realize that it is rotten.
Trying to make ends meet, you're a slave to the money then you die.
– Bittersweet Symphony
On July 21 st , Ukrainian businessman and politician David Zhvania revealed some
open secrets of the Ukrainian politics, including crimes that former Ukrainian President Petro
Poroshenko had carried out. The irony of the situation is that Zhvania was, at one point, the
leader of Poroshenko's campaign headquarters.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/JChtKpaulOs
He said that Euromaidan was ruled by criminal groups led by the people who were leading the
parties that came into power following the coup – the BPP (Bloc of Petro Poroshenko) and
the National Front.
He also said that he had participated in giving multimillion-dollar bribes to European
officials in exchange for their support to Poroshenko's election as president.
The former member of Ukrainian parliament, in his video message, said that Ukraine is
threatened with a new coming to power of Poroshenko.
"A creeping revenge is taking place in the country – Zelensky's rating falls, and
Poroshenko and his entourage are again striving for power. I cannot look at it calmly, so I
decided to give this press conference. Warn the citizens of Ukraine not to make a mistake. Tell
everyone. who is Poroshenko and his entourage.
This is a criminal group that from the very beginning participated in the Maidan solely for
the sake of seizing power and personal enrichment," Zhvania said.
He said that following the 2014 Maidan, an organized criminal group took power in Ukraine,
and he admitted that he was part of it.
According to Zhvania, it was this criminal group that financed the protests and thwarted any
options for agreements with the authorities (the Yanukovich government), which were designed to
avoid escalation.
"I was also a member of the organized criminal group, which seized power in 2014 on the wave
of popular protests. We financed the Maidan, we fueled protest moods in the media, thwarted the
government's peace initiatives, conducted separate negotiations with deputies of the Party of
Regions, and negotiated with foreign embassies.
The organized criminal group included Martynenko, Poroshenko, Turchynov, Yatsenyuk,
Klitschko. Each of whom has attached its own group. Turchinov, for example, brought Pashinsky
and Parubiy," Zhvania said and added that he was ready to testify on this matter.
After the coup victory, Zhvania's group engaged in political corruption to secure the
presidency for Poroshenko.
"I and Klimkin (note: Klimkin later became the foreign minister) directly participated in
the transfer of 5 million euros through the Ukrainian Embassy in Germany for one high-ranking
European official at that time in order to ensure support for Poroshenko as a candidate for the
presidency of Ukraine from the EU. I am ready to provide the circumstances of this to the
investigating authorities," Zhvania claimed.
In his opinion, Poroshenko became president as a result of the consensus of the oligarchs.
And he took on certain obligations to them, which in most cases he carried out.
According to Zhvania, during his tenure as president, Poroshenko acquired approximately $3.4
billion in bribes.
The former politician hoped that President Zelensky "will have enough political will to
bring the case of Poroshenko and his entourage to an end."
"Poroshenko today, on the eve of local elections, may try to run for mayor. Before Maidan,
it was his dream – he humiliatingly begged Yanukovych for the right to run for mayor of
Kiev, was ready to give a bribe for this. Yanukovych did not allow, and Poroshenko did not dare
to disobey," Zhvania said and promised to reveal more in the following weeks.
The Euromaidan in 2014 was not a spontaneous protest, but was financed by political
circles to overthrow Yanukovych.
Any peace initiatives were thwarted by a group that included Martynenko, Poroshenko,
Turchynov, Yatsenyuk and Klitschko.
Zhvania and Klimkin gave 5 million euros in bribes to a European official to lobby for
Poroshenko's interests as a presidential candidate in 2014.
David Zhvania is a well-known Ukrainian businessman from Georgia. Long-term business partner
of the deputy of several iterations of Parliament Nikolay Martynenko.
Zhvania was also a member in four different Ukrainian parliament configurations. In 2004, he
was an ally of Yushchenko, was a member of the Our Ukraine bloc, and took part in the Orange
Revolution. In 2005, he served as Minister of Emergency Situations in the government of Yulia
Tymoshenko.
In 2006 he went to the Verkhovna Rada from "Our Ukraine" and Yushchenko, but he had a
falling out with him.
In 2010, he became friends with the Yanukovych team.
In the 2012 elections, he entered parliament as a self-nominated and non-partisan candidate
in 140 constituencies. He was a member of the Party of Regions faction, but left it in 2013
when the Revolution of Dignity began.
In the 2014 elections, he was one of the heads of the electoral headquarters of the Petro
Poroshenko Bloc. People's Deputy Aleksandr Onishchenko stated that he transferred money to
Zhvania for a seat in the parliament of the 8th convocation.
Dominic Raab @DominicRaab
· Jul 17 Today, we remember
that 6 years ago flight #MH17 was shot down & 298
people tragically lost their lives, including 10 citizens. We support
the ongoing trial in the Netherlands to deliver justice for those who died & for their
loved ones, and call on Russia to cooperate fully
And Russia does not try to cooperate fully?
Is Russia even allowed to cooperate?
The Ukraine is allowed to cooperate, of course, and not only cooperate: the Ukraine is
part of the "Joint Investigative Team"!
The Ukraine even provides "evidence" of Russian culpability!
And of course, according to the mendacious Raab, the purpose of the "trial" is to deliver
"justice for those who died and their loved ones" and certainly not to apportion blame on
Russia and the so-called terrorists in eastern Ukraine, whom Russia supports by, amongst
other things, having dispatched a Buk ground-to-air anti-aircraft missile launching complex
from Russia to the Ukraine, which weaponry was part of the Russian armed forces and manned by
Russian servicemen, then ferreted said system out of the Ukraine back to Russia, mission
having been accomplished, namely the downing of a civilian airliner that, for some reason or
other, had been diverted by Ukraine air-traffic control over a war zone in the Ukraine and on
a day when all Ukraine air-traffic radars were, for some inexplicable reason, out of
action.
Raab, to partly quote one of your fellow British cabinet ministers and erstwhile foreign
minister: "You should go away and shut up!"
"... There was a deeply held assumption that, when the countries of Central and Eastern Europe joined NATO and the European Union in 2004, these countries would continue their positive democratic and economic transformation. Yet more than a decade later, the region has experienced a steady decline in democratic standards and governance practices at the same time that Russia's economic engagement with the region expanded significantly. ..."
"... Are these developments coincidental, or has the Kremlin sought deliberately to erode the region's democratic institutions through its influence to 'break the internal coherence of the enemy system'? ..."
"... a false flag operation" involving "an alliance of the far right organizations, specifically the Right Sector and Svoboda, and oligarchic parties, such as Fatherland". There is little in Sharp's book to suggest that non-violent resistance would have had much effect on a really brutal and determined government. He also has the naïve habit of using "democrat" and "dictator" as if these words were as precisely defined as coconuts and codfish. But any "dictatorship" – for example Stalin's is a very complex affair with many shades of opinion in it. So, in terms of what he was apparently trying to do, one can see it only succeeding against rather mild "dictators" presiding over extremely unpopular polities. With a great deal of outside effort and resources. ..."
"... His "playbook" is useful to outside powers that want to overthrow governments they don't like. Especially those run by "dictators" not brutal enough to shoot the protesters down. ..."
Once I'd seen this mention of The Russian Playbook (aka KGB, Kremlin or Putin's Playbook), I
saw the expression all over the place. Here's an early – perhaps the earliest – use
of the term. In October 2016, the Center for Strategic and International studies (" Ranked #1 ") informed us of the "
Kremlin Playbook "
with this ominous beginning
There was a deeply held assumption that, when the countries of Central and Eastern
Europe joined NATO and the European Union in 2004, these countries would continue their
positive democratic and economic transformation. Yet more than a decade later, the region has
experienced a steady decline in democratic standards and governance practices at the same
time that Russia's economic engagement with the region expanded significantly.
And asks
Are these developments coincidental, or has the Kremlin sought deliberately to erode
the region's democratic institutions through its influence to 'break the internal coherence
of the enemy system'?
Well, to these people, to ask the question is to answer it: can't possibly be disappointment
at the gap between 2004's expectations and 2020's reality, can't be that they don't like the
total Western values package that they have to accept, it must be those crafty Russians
deceiving them. This was the earliest reference to The Playbook that I found, but it certainly
wasn't the last.
Of course, all these people are convinced Moscow interfered in the 2016 presidential
election. Somehow. To some effect. Never really specified but the latest outburst of insanity
is this video from the
Lincoln Project . As Anatoly Karlin observes: "I think it's really
cool how we Russians took over America just by shitposting online. How does it feel to be
subhuman?" He has a point: the Lincoln Project, and the others shrieking about Russian
interference, take it for granted that American democracy is so flimsy and Americans so
gullible that a few Facebook ads can bring the whole facade down. A curious mental state
indeed.
What can we know about The Playbook? For a start it must be written in Russian, a language
that those crafty Russians insist on speaking among themselves. Secondly such an important
document would be protected the way that highly classified material is protected. There would
be a very restricted need to know; underlings participating in one of the many plays would not
know how their part fitted into The Playbook; few would ever see The Playbook itself. The
Playbook would be brought to the desk of the few authorised to see it by a courier, signed for,
the courier would watch the reader and take away the copy afterwards. The very few copies in
existence would be securely locked away; each numbered and differing subtly from the others so
that, should a leak occur, the authorities would know which copy read by whom had been leaked.
Printed on paper that could not be photographed or duplicated. As much protection as human
cunning could devise; right up there with
the nuclear codes .
And so on. It's all quite ridiculous: we're supposed to believe that Moscow easily controls
far-away countries but can't keep its neighbours under control.
There is no Russian Playbook, that's just projection. But there is a "playbook" and it's
written in English, it's freely available and it's inexpensive enough that every pundit can
have a personal copy: it's named "
From Dictatorship To Democracy: A Conceptual Framework for Liberation " and it's written by
Gene Sharp (1928-2018) .
Whatever Sharp may have thought he was doing, whatever good cause he thought he was assisting,
his book has been used as a guide to create regime changes around the world. Billed as
"democracy" and "freedom", their results are not so benign. Witness Ukraine today. Or Libya. Or
Kosovo whose long-time leader has just been indicted for numerous crimes .
Curiously enough, these efforts always take place in countries that resist Washington's line
but never in countries that don't. Here we do see training, financing, propaganda, discord
being sown, divisions exploited to effect regime change – all the things in the imaginary
"Russian Playbook". So, whatever he may have thought he was helping, Sharp's advice has been
used to produce what only the propagandists could call "
model interventions "; to the "liberated" themselves, the reality is poverty , destruction ,
war and
refugees .
Reading Sharp's book, however, makes one wonder if he was just fooling himself. Has there
ever been a "dictatorship" overthrown by "non-violent" resistance along the lines of what he is
suggesting? He mentions Norwegians who resisted Hitler; but Norway was liberated, along with
the rest of Occupied Europe, by extremely violent warfare. While some Jews escaped, most didn't
and it was the conquest of Berlin that saved the rest: the nazi state was killed . The
USSR went away, together with its satellite governments in Europe but that was a top-down
event. He likes Gandhi but Gandhi wouldn't have lasted a minute under Stalin. Otpor was greatly aided by NATO's war
on Serbia. And, they're only "non-violent" because the Western media doesn't talk much about
the violence ;
"non-violent" is not the first word that comes to mind in this video of Kiev 2014 . "Colour revolutions" are
manufactured from existing grievances, to be sure, but with a great deal of outside assistance,
direction and funding; upon inspection, there's much design behind their "spontaneity". And,
not infrequently, with mysterious sniping at a expedient moment – see Katchanovski's
research on the "Heavenly Hundred" of the Maidan showing pretty convincingly that the
shootings were " a false flag operation" involving "an alliance of the far right
organizations, specifically the Right Sector and Svoboda, and oligarchic parties, such as
Fatherland". There is little in Sharp's book to suggest that non-violent resistance would have
had much effect on a really brutal and determined government. He also has the naïve habit
of using "democrat" and "dictator" as if these words were as precisely defined as coconuts and
codfish. But any "dictatorship" – for example Stalin's is a very complex affair with many
shades of opinion in it. So, in terms of what he was apparently trying to do, one can see it
only succeeding against rather mild "dictators" presiding over extremely unpopular polities.
With a great deal of outside effort and resources.
The Flight Safety Foundation has begun an investigation into why Kiev did not close the
airspace over the warzone in eastern Ukraine where MH17 was destroyed in July 2014, a Dutch
foreign ministry spokesperson has confirmed to Sputnik.
"This isn't just parallel litigation, which the ECHR has already refused to allow,"
commented a London legal expert. "It's a vote of no confidence in the Dutch prosecutors to
secure convictions in the murder case they are trying to make."
Rutte and his foreign minister, Stephanus Blok, made their move on July 10 with press
releases and tweets; there has been no release of the legal papers. The ECHR has yet to
record their lawsuit
####
Well we're not surprised! Rutte seems quite adept at autof/kery.
The Russian Foreign Ministry welcomed the formation in Malaysia of its own position on
the collapse of MH17 The department noted that in the West this tragedy has been portrayed one-sidedly and
biased.
July 2, 2020
<bMOSCOW, July 2. / TASS /. The publication of a book written by Mahajir Ibrahim on the
causes of the downing of flight MH17 indicates the formation of a position in Malaysian
society on this tragedy. This was announced on Thursday at a briefing by the official
representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Maria Zakharova.
"The appearance of the book testifies to the increasing desire of the Malaysians to
form their own opinion about what happened. We believe that the latter is especially
important, given how the tragedy has been covered in a one-sided and biased manner in the
West", she said.
As noted by Zakharova, in the book, the author pays special attention to various
versions of the airliner crash as well as to motives, "including not always obvious ones
which concern one or another country involved in the crash investigation. For example, the
United States, as the author claims, has used tragedy to justify the need for new sanctions
against Russia", the diplomat said.
Суд одобрил
повторный
запрос у США
снимков с места
крушения MH17
RT на русском, 3
июля 2020
Court has given approval for a re-request to the United States for images of the MH17
crash site
RT in Russian, July 3, 2020
The Netherlands court has called the proposal to re-appeal to the United States about
satellite images from the crash site of a Malaysian Boeing in eastern Ukraine in 2014
justified.
This was reported by RIA Novosti with reference to the presiding judge Hendrick
Steenheys.
According to him, interest in viewing satellite images and introducing them to the case
is obvious.
"The court notes that since the autumn of 2016, the prosecutor's office has not made
any attempts to verify whether these images can be made public as part of the criminal
process. A second request would be reasonable", said the judge.
It is noted that at past hearings, lawyers asked to make a second request to the United
States about satellite data that allegedly recorded the launch of a missile on Boeing flight
MH17.
Earlier, the Dutch prosecutor Theis Berger, said that the Ukraine had not provided
primary data from radars for the case concerning the downing of the Malaysian Boeing.
The Boeing 777, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17, 2014 in the
Donetsk region of the Ukraine, killing 283 passengers and 15 crew members.
A Dutch court has denied MH17 crash lawyers a second request for satellite data from
NATO. This was announced by the presiding judge Hendrick Steenhuis reports RIA
Novosti.
Earlier, on June 29, Dutch lawyer for the accused Oleg Pulatov, Baudewein van Eyck,
stated that NATO has not provided satellite data from the crash site. In this regard, he
asked the court to find out whether the North Atlantic Alliance has relevant records for the
eastern Ukraine zone on July 17, 2014. The court, in turn, recalled that it had already made
such a request and the response said that no data was recorded from the crash site of flight
MH17.
"We conclude that NATO does not have such data So the second request was rejected," the
judge explained at the July 3 hearing.
A Dutch court investigating the downing of MH17 has agreed to hear from Almaz-Antey, a
Russian arms manufacturer, which argues that the prevailing Western narrative – that
rebels in eastern Ukraine shot down the plane – is false.
The hearing in Badhoevedorp, Netherlands says it will explore alternative scenarios in
the high-profile trial, in which four anti-Kiev fighters stand accused of using a Russian
anti-aircraft missile to destroy the civilian plane, killing 283 passengers – mostly
Dutch – and 15 crew on board.
Crash site, crash site, crash site. We don't give a flip about the crash site; it has been
done to death. What Kerry claimed, and never, ever substantiated in any way whatsoever other
than non-stop allusion to having the information amongst its mountains of evidence, was that
the USA had remotely observed the taking of the shot, and had seen the where and the when of
its origin, and seen the very moment the airliner disappeared from radar. NOBODY CARES ABOUT
THE CRASH SITE. The dispute does not revolve around whether or not the aircraft crashed, or
where, but who shot it down and from where the shot originated. The USA claimed to know
– and be able to prove conclusively – both those things. It manifestly is not
going to do so no matter how many requests are floated, because if the Dutch thought there
was any hope of proving the case to that level of certainty, the prosecution would never have
embarked on its ridiculous strategy of 'conditional intent'.
I think it is at least possible if not probable that the USA did record something, or
bought it from Digital Globe and now is sitting on it. I personally think the USA knows full
well that Ukraine was probably or even definitely responsible, and is deliberately blocking
that discovery. It is at least possible that this trial is all about a verdict of 'Guess
we'll never know', so people will stop digging. But I'm sure they would still like a
conviction of some Russians if it looked like they could pull it off.
The entire trial, and indeed the investigation which preceded it, has been an attempt to
push a narrative in which first the investigators and then the officers of the court have
stated 'facts' which are not in evidence. On occasion persons have claimed to have seen the
evidence themselves, and satisfied themselves that it invites the conclusion they have
arrived upon, and have asked to be believed on the strength of their reputations because the
evidence cannot be made publicly available. Sometimes this has been difficult to grant
because no such reputation for veracity is present, and sometimes because the scenario the
missing evidence purports to tie together is so plainly ludicrous and/or biased toward or
away from certain conclusions that it is broadly unacceptable. Anyway, I think it is fair to
say that there is little we can claim we 'know'.
One think I believe we do 'know' is that if the United States had some slam-dunk evidence
which would prove east-Ukrainian militias shot down MH17, regardless by design or by mistake,
the United States would find a way to make that evidence available, and would have done so
long since. It is so clearly in its own interests to make this case, simultaneously removing
all doubt that its loyal ally – Ukraine – was not responsible, and so many
examples exist of the United States flinging aside its own rules when doing so served its
interests, that it is impossible to believe conclusive satellite evidence exists which proves
what they say it does, but modesty and concerns for national security prohibit showing it.
Similarly, if actual US government satellite data showed the movement of a single Buk TELAR
from Kursk to eastern Ukraine and back again at the time of the disaster, it would be in
every newspaper. Instead, we get limited hangouts and photoshops from Bellingcat, which has
turned out to be a nice little earner for Higgins and like-minded computer nerds.
I believe, but cannot prove yet, that an ATC is not allowed to assume control of an
aircraft in his/her airspace if no primary radar is available – something which has
long bothered me is Ukraine's cheeky assurance that it cannot supply any electronic data
because no primary radars were available, and the west's no-problem acceptance of this
excuse. If no primary radar is available, the ATC actually has no video contact with the
aircraft; Automatic Dependent Surveillance- Broadcast (ADS-B) consists of the aircraft
determining its own position relative to everything else, and broadcasting it to the ground.
The ATC must, armed with this information, provide guidance on altitude and course which will
not take the aircraft he/she is controlling too close to other aircraft operating in the same
airspace. There are rules on acceptable separation with/without primary radar, and obviously
when the ATC cannot see the aircraft on his/her own radar, greater separation is necessary
for safety. Other aircraft were operating in proximity, and there was speculation at the time
that one or more of them might have seen the flare from the explosion, but I forget now how
far away each was and am too lazy to look it up. Anyway, separation between aircraft in the
best conditions, when you have primary radar contact and can see raw video on your scope, and
secondary broadcast (because primary radar does not give identification or altitude) is five
miles ahead on the aircraft's course and three miles to each side.
ICAO PANS-ATM ( Doc.4444 , Chapter 8) details radar separation minima of five (5) and
three (3) nautical miles. These minima allow for a considerable increase in airspace
utilisation compared to procedural control. Changes to ICAO documents are about to be
published (2007) recognising ADS-B use to support 5 nautical mile separation standards.
ICAO's Separation & Airspace Safety Panel (SASP) is working on proposals to allow 3
nautical mile separation standards using ADS-B and also on the use of multilateration to
support both 3 and 5 nautical mile separation standards.
Early in the investigation of the incident, within a day or two, alert observers claimed
Ukraine had given MH17 an ordered course correction which took it directly over the DNR.
There was some talk about a altitude reduction as well, but I can't find any reference to
that now. There was immediate pushback from Ukraine's defenders, so,me saying the course
correction was just an urban legend and had never happened, some that MH17 had itself
requested a course change due to weather, etc Whatever the case, the information was expunged
from FlightRadar and other sites which provide it in the public domain, although there are
many screen captures of it as it appeared at the time – people have learned that
sensitive information has a way of vanishing from the internet as if it had never been.
Perhaps you can give course corrections to aircraft that you cannot see on radar, but it
would be an act of faith that their broadcast data is accurate, and you must observe proper
flight separation; the five-and-three rule applies to separation of aircraft that you can see
on radar. So what I am saying is that if MH17's separation from other flights did not exceed
five miles to the front and rear and three miles to either side, either the Ukrainian
controller had primary radar available and could see MH17, or else he/she was controlling in
violation of ICAO rules.
So, as to the satellite data which would reveal who shot down MH17, there are two
alternatives I can see; one, the USA has no such data, and John Kerry was full of shit as
usual, just grandstanding. Two, they do have such information, but it reveals a scenario
drastically different to the one in the official narrative. Whatever the case, if the USA
could prove beyond a doubt that Eastern-Ukrainian militia using a single Buk TELAR provided
by Russia shot down the aircraft from the vicinity of Schnizne, and then booked it back to
Russia with all reasonable dispatch, all the while firing off frantic radio messages to one
another, there is nothing which would stop them from providing it. People already have a
pretty good idea what is possible through satellite photography and analysis, what resolution
is achievable and how easy it is to interpret what is revealed, and it's pretty hard to
believe America is playing coy because it has unearthly technological capabilities which must
remain secret even if it means murderers go free.
I'm afraid I still think the Dutch have their minds made up, and have done from the first,
who is going to be awarded responsibility, and are now just going through the motions of
being scrupulously fair; they would not accept Russia's primary radar data or insisted it
shows nothing useful, supported the Ukrainian view that data held by Russia which shows the
missile the Ukies are exhibiting as the murder weapon was transferred to Ukraine many years
ago and never returned to Russia is forged or faked, ignored the impossibility of parts from
such a missile being found 'at the crash scene' or 'in the wreckage' because the missile
responsible would have exploded by proximity fuse without ever touching the airliner, except
for the shrapnel from the warhead – the missile parts would have fallen to earth miles
away, where the aircraft was hit and not where it landed. The premise of now exploring
'alternative scenarios' just looks like window-dressing to me, and I think it should be
regarded with the greatest suspicion.
The title of the linked article implies the Dutch will seek 'images of the crash site'
from the Americans. We have seen images of the crash site up the yingyang. What we need to
see is imagery of the missile shot being taken, and from where it originated plus any detail
visible of the system which fired it.
"Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between
Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev
has told Interfax news agency."
####
The link above of course doesn't work but this one from the 16:38.18 snapshot does (so
take a screenshot!):
15:29: Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between
Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev
has told Interfax news agency.
Ummm how does that square with reports that examination of the Cockpit Voice Recorder on
the downed flight revealed 'nothing useful'. and there being nothing on it – no audio
– for some four minutes (just guessing, I would have to look it up again, somewhere on
Helmer's site) following a routine positional update? What would be the point of confiscating
voice records of communications between the ATC and the aircraft from one end if they had a
recording in full from the other, the receiving end?
Unless, of course, there was something on it you felt you could safely remove, considering
no other record of it remained.
I believe the report of armed men seizing the ATC recordings was first offered by
'Carlos', the mystery ATC whose every appearance is greeted with yodels of joy by Matt, our
former Venezuela correspondent, who claims that Carlos was conclusively and irrefutably
proven not to exist, being a complete fabrication by Russia. So it's kind of complicated. The
only thing I could say about it at this point would be that if it actually was done by
Ukraine and was not a planned provocation but an accident, the speed and efficiency with
which the global PR apparatus swung into action was awe-inspiring. If it was planned and
executed by Ukraine, it was such a cold-blooded act that they would never live it down if it
were exposed. But how likely is it that either Ukraine or Russia accidentally shot it down,
and in only minutes, goons broke into the control tower and seized the recordings? If that
ever actually happened, it would be a critical piece of evidence arguing that the
shooting-down of MH17 was a carefully-planned provocation by Ukraine. They certainly would
not seize recordings required by law to be retained as part of an investigation in order to
protect Russia. The sole explanation for such behavior, if it could ever be proven to have
happened, would be to prevent one's own implication in the crime. And it could never have
happened so quickly by happenstance – it would have to be part of a plan.
A couple of interesting things from the Malaysian statement: one, it affirms that Ukraine
ordered a descent in altitude from 35,000 ft to 33,000 ft. Two, it affirms the aircraft was
at all times within airspace which had been cleared by the ICAO. If true, not only Ukraine is
to blame for not closing the airspace over a war zone.
I don't see anything between 16:37 and 16:41. Are you talking about the live feed
record?
When the US State Department was not yet even sure if any Americans had been aboard, Sammy
Power was already saying it was a surface-to-air missile that brought down the plane, and
there was already language being used which said "a Russian missile system or supplied by
Russia". In retrospect, it kind of looks like a plan, doesn't it? Similarly, all early
statements said that if the plane had been shot down, it was 'an unspeakable crime'. There
was never any question of it being an accident.
At 03:13 the narrative says "Data on MH17's flight route by flightradar24 suggests the
plane had deviated slightly from its usual route and flew across the length of Ukraine."
"Flightradar24" is a hotlink, but if you click it you learn that Googlemaps has disabled the
feed and the data is not recoverable.
Wow; spooky; at 04:05 the feed says "Aviation website Flightradar24.com says in a Facebook
post that MH17's plane crashed exactly 17 years after its first flight." First time I'd ever
heard that.
All through the narrative are regular intercessions by the Americans, the British and the
Australians to reiterate that it was a horrible murder and that Russia is responsible.
Mmmm interesting – in reference to my earlier statement that if you had the tapes
you would know what could safely be removed from the CVR once it was located, this report
reflects that several news sites including the BBC mentioned the ATC tapes being seized by
the SBU. At one point, Ukraine's Ambassador to Malaysia Ihor Humennyi said "it is just the
same as the flight data and cockpit voice recorders".
Oh, okay – now I see it. 15:28. I was looking at 16:38. "Ukraine's SBU security
service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control
officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news
agency." But Matt has told us several times that is all bullshit concocted by the
now-proven-to-have-never-existed 'Carlos'.
It happens to all of us, no? But, being right once doesn't verify all the other opinions
of that person. Remember he frequently refused to admit he was wrong and would accuse others
of deliberately misinterpreting what he wrote, which was very odd as his english was quite
good. He was quite the Princess because that is how he behaved, petulant, childish,
priviliged, and never, ever wrong. Or in short, a troll, which is why I never engaged with
him(?).
"We are alarmed by continuous attempts to misuse the Ukrainian justice system for
politically motivated persecution of political opponents," said lawmakers from the informal
Friends of European Ukraine group in a statement on Friday (3 July).
After the peaceful power transition of 2019 election in the post-Soviet country,
"current attempts to prosecute political opponents pose a risk of democratic backsliding,"
the group of MEPs added.
Ukraine's former president, Petro Poroshenko, is suspected of abuse of office by
illegally pressuring the then-chief of Ukraine's Foreign Intelligence Service, Yehor Bozhok,
into appointing Serhiy Semоchko as his deputy.
Poroshenko is involved in 24 investigations, with three others recently closed, and
denies any wrongdoing, calling the probes selective justice 'at the orders of [Volodymyr]
Zelensky', the current president .
The 50-member group, which does not have formal standing, was created in September last
year with the goal of providing political support and to promote Ukraine's economic
integration with the EU
####
Unfortunately there is more at the link except the names of MEPs.
A Ukrainian oligarch has his own MEP lobby group! Why should we be surprised? I can't find
a list of members (this is not the old 2014-19 group and this European Parliament page has
not been updated with the new group of the same name) but Auštrevičius is the
chaiman. There's also the Friends of Ukraine with the like of Fogh Rasmussen, Versbow,
Rifkind, Cox, Bildt etc. on the Rasmussen site.
No matter how corrupt, murderous or just plain nasty, it is more important to keep the
u-Kraine close to the EU, close to NATO etc. for strategic purposes. It's just another
western chapter of looking the other way for their 'son of a bitches.'
"... There is no beyond reasonable doubt evidence (No US satellite pictures as claimed by Biden, even within NATO to Dutch Intel) and the defence is not pushing that hard but have asked for the Russian General to be called to describe the BUK missile's documented life i. e. it came from Ukraine's stock. ..."
Enjoy your updates. The MH17 trial is turning into an interesting indictment on Dutch
justice. There is no beyond reasonable doubt evidence (No US satellite pictures as claimed by
Biden, even within NATO to Dutch Intel) and the defence is not pushing that hard but have
asked for the Russian General to be called to describe the BUK missile's documented life i.
e. it came from Ukraine's stock.
So, on July 3rd the Judges have to decide whether to allow that evidence, which definitely
puts the evidence less than reasonable double, or not allow it and convict the four
defendants on insufficient evidence to meet Dutch Law, or allow them to go free.
Looks like they have a bit of a problem meeting the expectations of the US.
The Dutch Government has
devised an evidence-proof scheme for ensuring
the trial of the Russian government for the
destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17
will end in a conviction
.
This scheme will work without evidence to prove that the four men accused of the crime of
shooting down the aircraft, killing the 298 passengers and crew on board on July 17, 2014, intended
to kill; or even intended to fire the missile which allegedly brought MH17 down.
The Dutch scheme is evidence-proof because no evidence will be needed, not from US satellite
photographs which are missing; nor NATO airborne tracking which shows no missile; nor Ukrainian
Security Service (SBU) evidence which has proved to have been fabricated, and in the case of
Ukrainian witnesses for the prosecution, threatened, tortured or bribed.
The scheme is also evidence-proof because the Dutch Prime Minister has told the Dutch Minister
of Justice to order the state prosecutors to tell the state-appointed judge that he must convict
the Russians if he finds as proven that MH17 crashed to the ground in eastern Ukraine; that
everyone on board was killed; and that the four soldiers accused – three Russians and one Ukrainian
– were on the ground fighting.
International war crimes lawyers are calling this a legal travesty. It was presented in court
near Amsterdam by Dutch state prosecutor Thijs Berger on June 10. It has gone unnoticed in the
mainstream western media. Russian reporters following the trial have missed it. The scheme was
first reported in English and Russian by a NATO propaganda unit on June 12.
As a prosecutor of the Dutch War Crimes Unit, a state entity, Berger has been employed in the
past to prosecute the targets of wars fought by the Dutch, alongside NATO and the US, in Yugoslavia
and Afghanistan. In Europe his group prosecuted war crimes alleged by the NATO alliance in its war
on Serbia from March to June of 1999. A recent
report
[2]to
which Berger contributed, entitled
Universal Jurisdiction Annual Review 2019,
identifies
a case which Berger pursued of war crimes in Afghanistan; those alleged crimes were not of the US
and allied forces in Afghanistan, but of the local Afghans defending themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/YKJcJuT_5jc
Prosecutor Thijs Berger
announces
the evidence-proof scheme of Article 168. The legal loophole is spelled out over six minutes – Min
3:31:00 to 3:37:00.
For his presentation to presiding judge Hendrik Steenhuis, Berger read from a multi-page script
authorized by his superiors in the Dutch Ministry of Justice and Security. They and he repeatedly
made the mistake of calling the charges in the prosecution's indictment – Articles 168, 287 and 298
– provisions of the Dutch Code of Criminal Procedure. This is the procedure code; its provisions
are called articles in the original Dutch, but sections in the
English
version.
The charges of the indictment are from the Dutch Criminal Code. They are called articles in
court; they are called articles in the
Dutch
statute
but sections in the official English translation.
For analysis of how the prosecution has manipulated both the Criminal Code and the Code of
Criminal Procedure in the MH17 trial preliminaries, read
this
.
"The scope of the indictment," Berger began his legal argument, is that together, the four
defendants -- Igor Girkin (Strelkov), Sergei Dubinsky, Oleg Pulatov, who are Russians, and
Leonid Kharchenko, a Ukrainian –
played "a steering, organizing, and supporting role in
deploying the BUK-Telar [missile and radar unit]" to shoot down MH 17
(Min 3:25:22).
They were members of an "armed group" engaged in "armed struggle, the purpose being to shoot
down an aircraft" (Min 3:27:20-21).
Note the indefinite article –
an
aircraft. The prosecution is charging the four with
capital crimes for defending themselves from attack by the Ukrainian Air Force. This, however, is
not mentioned by the prosecution.
"They are not being prosecuted," Berger went on, "as the persons who actually carried
out the firing process"
(Min 3:38:22). "We do not need evidence as to the exact cause of
events in order to be able to judge the accused" (Min 3:28:27). Homicide or murder, Berger
conceded, is in Dutch law "death caused intentionally" (Min 3:29:15). But the crimes which must be
judged by Steenhuis and his panel of The Hague District Court, he claims aren't homicide in the
usual legal sense. "The exact course of events need not be established" (Min 3:30:43), Berger told
Steenhuis. So the prosecution does not need to prove what happened. "That the missile which hit the
MH17 could possibly have been meant and intended for a military aircraft doesn't change these
facts" (Min 3:31:17).
"
None of the charges in the indictment requires intention concerning the civilian
nature of the aircraft or the occupants.
The crimes in the indictment forbid the
downing of any aircraft; this is Article 168 of the Code of Criminal Procedure [sic]; and also
forbid causing the deaths of others under Articles 287 and 289 irrespective of whether the
aircraft has a military or civilian status, and an error in the target doesn't really make a
difference for the evidence that these crimes have been committed. So no evidence is required
that the accused should have had the intention to shoot down a civilian aircraft" (Min 3:32:00).
"It was their intention to down a military aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force" (Min
3:32:28), Berger claims his evidence of the SBU telephone tapes and witnesses proves.
"Those who intend to shoot down a military aircraft and subsequently, accidentally, hit a
civilian aircraft are guilty of causing an aircraft to crash according to Article 168 of the
Code of Criminal Procedure [sic]; but also guilty of murder of the occupants according to
Article 289 of the Code of Criminal Procedure [sic]" (Min 3:33:04).
In a regular court of law in England, Australia, Canada or the US, a prosecutor's legal argument
is always presented with explicit references to the case law. That's the accumulation of judgements
by courts going back as far as the history of the crime and of the statute can be traced. These are
the precedents which, in international law and in Dutch law too, must be followed by judges hearing
cases to which these precedents apply. This reflects the accepted notion that law is cumulative,
and that judges administer and interpret that law; they don't issue personal opinions or
preferences.
Berger didn't identify any Dutch case law or provide the court with precedents in
previous cases decided by the Dutch courts.
The reason is that there are none , explains a veteran Dutch judge who was asked this week to
identify the case law on Article 168. The judge replied: "It's sufficient to establish that the
defendant had the intention to take down some aircraft and that he should have seriously taken into
consideration the chance that he would hit an aircraft such as the MH-17. That's called conditional
intent --
voorwaardelijk opzet
in Dutch Answering this question [of precedents] took a bit
more time. I couldn't find any case law that would be relevant to the issue. Article 168 is not
used very often."
Conditional intent doesn't exist in Anglo-American law. But in Dutch law, the concept has not
(repeat never) been applied to cases of warfare, or in situations of military engagement where men
are attacking and defending themselves. For a Dutch review of the court precedents for application
of
voorwaardelijk opzet
to deaths caused by a drunk driver and a poisoning, read
this
[8]– Sect. 3.3.1. Fatal traffic offences committed by drunken drivers are the typical
homicides in which Dutch prosecutors apply the doctrine of conditional intent; the case law and
precedents are reviewed
here
[9].
No Dutch lawyer, judge or court has ever applied this to warfare.
Berger knows this; so does Steenhuis. They also know there is voluminous case law in the
international courts dealing with similar facts to those of the MH17 case and of the combat in
which the four defendants were engaged; for a sample Dutch law review, read
this
.
Again, Berger ignored what no prosecutor outside The Netherlands would attempt in front of a
judge. "We are aware," Berger told Steenhuis, "of academic comments that imply that Article 168
would require intention in killing civilians [Min 3:33:04]. But this is incorrect. Article 168 does
not require any intention for the death of the occupants" (Min 3:33:34).
The NATO propaganda unit Bellingcat repeated this claim in a
publication
two days after Berger's presentation.
The Article 168 argument, repeated from Berger's
script, will prove to be a "boomerang" for the Russian government, NATO officials are now claiming.
"It is only a question of time, therefore, that the Dutch prosecution brings murder charges against
Russian top military commanders. Unlike the case with the 4 defendants, they would easily have
obtained combatant immunity, if only they – and their supreme commander – had admitted to being
part of the war. But they – and he – continuously denied, and this alone makes immunity impossible.
Also unlike the 4 defendants, the political price that Russia will pay such indictments will be
much higher. It is one thing for 3 Russian 'volunteers', forgotten by most, to spend the rest of
their life holed up at home and afraid to take any trip abroad. It's an altogether different story
when top Mod [Ministry of Defence] and FSB officials – and maybe even a minister – are charged
with murder of 298 civilians and end up on the Interpol red-notice list."
International lawyers already before the European Court of Human Rights are arguing that the
"boomerang" strikes the government in Kiev first, because it was ordering combat in eastern
Ukraine, including orders for bombing and strafing by the Ukrainian Air Force, and at the same time
refusing to close the airspace to civilian aircraft. The case of Denise Kenke, on behalf of her
father, MH17 victim Willem Grootscholten,
explains
.
Canadian war crimes attorney Christopher Black (right) says the Dutch prosecution is
deliberately ignoring Dutch law, as well as international law.
"What Berger is stating is a case of criminal negligence, not murder. The general principles
of criminal law apply to this case as much as to any case. As for the burden of proof, the court
has to be convinced on the basis of the lawful evidence presented that the accused has committed
the crime he is accused of."
Black is pointing out that the prosecution's evidence from the Ukrainian SBU is unlawful. For
analysis of evidence tampering by the SBU,
read
more
.
"'Any person who intentionally and unlawfully' -- that's the key phrase in the wording of
Article 168. Its use there means specific intent.
Specific intent
. A general intent to
use missiles on something is not good enough in this case. It is telling that [Berger] does not
make the distinction between specific intent versus general intent. That indicates the
prosecutors don't think they can prove the necessary specific intent. And if the plane had been
shot down by the accused thinking it was engaged in an attack on them or masking [a Ukrainian
Air Force] attack on them, then the court cannot convict. That's because the facts would show an
accident or a justifiable act of self-defence."
In Dutch courts, there are several of what are called "full defences" to indictments for murder.
One is insanity;
another
[14] is
duress. Self-defence is the third full defence; it is spelled out in Article 41 of the Criminal
Code:
European lawyers observing the MH17 trial have noted that Berger failed to mention that. They
interpret this as an indication the prosecution already believes Judge Steenhuis has decided on
conviction.
"The term 'unlawfully' is used in Article 168", Black continues, "because there may be
situations where at sea, for example, a vessel has to be grounded or sunk because it is a danger
to other shipping or to the crew -- or to save the crew. It's harder to think of a plane that
must be crashed for a comparable reason. But one can anticipate the scenario – for example, when
men on the ground believe on reasonable grounds that an aircraft was about to bomb them – when
attacking the plane would not be considered unlawful because it is self-defence."
"
So the Dutch prosecutors are trying to prove there was an intent [to fire at an
aircraft] and therefore they did it, even if there is no evidence they did.
I didn't
realise courts dealt in smoking guns. They ought to be dealing in hard evidence. The fact that
someone fantasizes about a woman and she ends up getting pregnant and then she has a miscarriage
can't be turned into the accusation against the man of intent to make her pregnant, and then of
causing her miscarriage, and so guilty of bodily harm."
"... Russia heavily subsidised Ukrainian energy imports for decades – gas and oil. In a similar fashion, Russia is doing this with Belarus until the present time. Russia is the only possible consumer of what Ukraine used to manufacture – a market that has disappeared. Gas turbines used to be made in Ukraine. Now, this has moved to Russia. Of course, the skilled Ukrainians went to Russia with their know-how. ..."
"... To the best of my knowledge the USSR was the only empire that actually subsidized its colonies – Poland, East Germany, Ukraine etc. Russia is far better off without them. ..."
"... Ukrainian supermarkets are overflowing with French/German/Italian products. European supermarkets are devoid of Ukrainian products. ..."
Only a complete and utter incompetent (or a rabid Ukrainian nationalist) can call Ukraine
an independent state. It is de-facto a colony of the West. A debt slave.
I applaud the US response of supporting Ukraine's aspirations for a freer, more
Western-oriented country and that it continues to support Ukraine's territorial interests
over those of Russia's.
This was not about supporting Ukrainian aspirations for a freer, more Western-oriented
country. It is about kicking out Russia from Ukrainian markets and plundering Ukraine all by
themselves. Mainly by Germany and the USA -- to major players of Euromaydan color revolution.
For Germans this is return to "Drang nach Osten" on a new level, on the level of neoliberal
neocolonialism.
They used Western nationalists as their fifth column, but Western Ukrainian suffered from
the results no less then people in Eastern Ukraine. Many now try to move to Kiev, Kiev region
and further East in order to escape poverty and unemployment. Seasonal labor to Russia
(mainly builders) diminished rapidly. Train communication now is blocked, and for Western
Ukraine only Poland now represents a chance to earn money for the family to survive the
winter.
For the USA this is first of all about selling Ukraine expensive weaponry, wasting
precious Ukrainian resources on permanent hostility with Russia (with Donbas conflict as a
real win to further the USA geopolitical ambitions -- in line with the "Full spectrum
dominance" doctrine) , cornering Ukrainian energy market (uranium supplies for power
stations, etc.), destruction, or buy-out of a few competing industries other than extracting
industries and maquiladoras, getting better conditions for the EU exports and multinationals
operating in Ukraine (and initially with plans for re-export products to Russia tax free) and
increasing the country debt to "debt slave" level.
In other words this is a powerful kick in a chin by Obama to Putin. Not a knockdown, but
very close.
For Ukraine first of all that means rapid accumulation of a huge external debt --
conditions of economic slavery, out of which there is no escape. Ukrainian people paid a very
dear price for their Euromaydan illusions. They became mass slave labor in Poland.
Prostitutes in Germany. Seasonal picker of fruits in some other EU countries (GB, France). A
new European blacks, so to speak.
The level of fleecing Ukraine by the USA after Euromaidan can be compared only with
fleecing of Libya. The currency dropped 300%, and 80% Ukrainians now live in abysmal poverty,
while neoliberal oligarchs allied with the West continue to plunder the country. Gold
reserves were moved to the USA.
If I had to choose between two colonizers, I probably would prefer Russians. They are
still colonizers, but they are less ruthless and brutal colonizers.
@likbezIf I had
to choose between two colonizers, I probably would prefer Russians. They are still
colonizers, but they are less ruthless and brutal colonizers.
I agree with 90% of what you wrote, but I would like to correct the above.
Russia heavily subsidised Ukrainian energy imports for decades – gas and oil. In
a similar fashion, Russia is doing this with Belarus until the present time. Russia is the
only possible consumer of what Ukraine used to manufacture – a market that has
disappeared. Gas turbines used to be made in Ukraine. Now, this has moved to Russia. Of
course, the skilled Ukrainians went to Russia with their know-how.
To the best of my knowledge the USSR was the only empire that actually subsidized its
colonies – Poland, East Germany, Ukraine etc. Russia is far better off without
them.
Ukrainian supermarkets are overflowing with French/German/Italian products. European
supermarkets are devoid of Ukrainian products.
@Mr. Hack Only a
complete and utter incompetent (or a rabid Ukrainian nationalist) can call Ukraine an
independent state. It is de-facto a colony of the West. A debt slave.
I applaud the US response of supporting Ukraine's aspirations for a freer, more
Western-oriented country and that it continues to support Ukraine's territorial interests
over those of Russia's.
This was not about supporting Ukrainian aspirations for a freer, more Western-oriented
country. It is about kicking out Russia from Ukrainian markets and plundering Ukraine all by
themselves. Mainly by Germany and the USA -- to major players of Euromaydan color revolution.
For Germans this is return to "Drang nach Osten" on a new level, on the level of neoliberal
neocolonialism.
They used Western nationalists as their fifth column, but Western Ukrainian suffered from
the results no less then people in Eastern Ukraine. Many now try to move to Kiev, Kiev region
and further East in order to escape poverty and unemployment. Seasonal labor to Russia
(mainly builders) diminished rapidly. Train communication now is blocked, and for Western
Ukraine only Poland now represents a chance to earn money for the family to survive the
winter.
For the USA this is first of all about selling Ukraine expensive weaponry, wasting
precious Ukrainian resources on permanent hostility with Russia (with Donbas conflict as a
real win to further the USA geopolitical ambitions -- in line with the "Full spectrum
dominance" doctrine) , cornering Ukrainian energy market (uranium supplies for power
stations, etc.), destruction, or buy-out of a few competing industries other than extracting
industries and maquiladoras, getting better conditions for the EU exports and multinationals
operating in Ukraine (and initially with plans for re-export products to Russia tax free) and
increasing the country debt to "debt slave" level.
In other words this is a powerful kick in a chin by Obama to Putin. Not a knockdown, but
very close.
For Ukraine first of all that means rapid accumulation of a huge external debt --
conditions of economic slavery, out of which there is no escape. Ukrainian people paid a very
dear price for their Euromaydan illusions. They became mass slave labor in Poland.
Prostitutes in Germany. Seasonal picker of fruits in some other EU countries (GB, France). A
new European blacks, so to speak.
The level of fleecing Ukraine by the USA after Euromaidan can be compared only with
fleecing of Libya. The currency dropped 300%, and 80% Ukrainians now live in abysmal poverty,
while neoliberal oligarchs allied with the West continue to plunder the country. Gold
reserves were moved to the USA.
If I had to choose between two colonizers, I probably would prefer Russians. They are
still colonizers, but they are less ruthless and brutal colonizers.
On MH17, the Dutch court is now in a bit of a bind. The State Prosecutor has to submit
evidence beyond reasonable doubt and he has had to admit this week in court that he does not
have that as primarily there are no US satellite photos, not even behind multiple levels of
security, that they or the Dutch military have been able to get hold of. He has no real
evidence just, as you say Patrick, the fair and honest not obtained under duress evidence
from Kiev and the definitely undoctored photo analysis of Bellingcat. Logically the case
should now collapse.
Given that that satellite image, as boasted about by Kerry at the time, would have had the
Russians bang to rights in a proper court in a major PR coup for the US, I suspect that its
non production means that it doesn't exist.
"... Enter the Buk system, with the 9K37 SA-11 missile. It's got the range, it's got the altitude, the Russians have it in active service. Oooo problem. It's got the range, but only if it was fired from inside Ukraine. ..."
"... Anyway, back to the Buk system. And not a moment before time, either – I just re-read that sanctimonious stab above, again; " having armed the militants without due thought as to the consequences " What, exactly, is the ridiculous nature of the accusation being presented here? That the Russians gave an anti-aircraft system to the 'militants' without considering they might use it to shoot down an aircraft? How did they not see that coming? The Ukrainian Army shot down a civilian airliner in October of 2001 , and lied about it for as long as it could – interestingly, it took place during joint Ukrainian-Russian air defense exercises on the Crimean peninsula, and Russia tried hard to avoid assigning blame to Ukraine, while at least one Israeli television station claimed the Russians had shot down their own aircraft. This disaster and subsequent lying did not prevent the USA from giving the Javelin missile to Ukraine – did it not occur to them that they might use it to shoot tanks? No due thought to the consequences, obviously. ..."
"... The Buk air-defense system normally consists of at least 4 TELAR launchers , each with 4 missiles on the launch rails, a self-propelled acquisition radar designated by NATO nomenclature as Snow Drift (the radar on the nose of the TELAR unit itself is designated Fire Dome), and a self-propelled command post, for a minimum of 6 vehicles. Also usually part of the system is a mobile crane, to reload the launchers. If you were going to supply an air-defense system to militant rebels, why wouldn't you give them the whole system? In a pinch, you might be able to get away without the command post vehicle, although it is the station that collates all the input from the sensors and makes the decision to assign targets for acquisition, tracking and engagement. If you didn't give them the crane vehicle, and perhaps a logistics truck with some reloads, they would be limited to the missiles that came already mounted – once those were fired, they'd have to abandon the system, because they couldn't reload it. Seems a little wasteful, don't you think? ..."
"... I'm going a little further with my inexpert opinion, to say that the Buk system was selected as the 'murder weapon', because it provides a limited autonomous capability. To be clear, the Fire Dome radar on the nose of the TELAR does have a limited search capability, and once the radar is locked on to a target, the TELAR vehicle is completely autonomous. The purpose of the surveillance radar is to detect the target from far beyond the Fire Dome's range, assign it to a TELAR and thereby direct it to the elevation and bearing of the target so that the TELAR's radar knows exactly where to look, and continue to update its position until the TELAR to which it was assigned has locked on to the target. ..."
"... The Fire Dome radar mounted on the TELAR can search a 120-degree sector in 4 seconds, at an elevation of 6 to 7 degrees. Its search function is maximized for defense against ground attack aircraft, and a single launcher is not looking at 240 degrees of potential air threat axis during each sweep. It is not looking high enough to see an airliner at 30,000 ft+. More importantly for a system which was not designed to shoot down helpless airliners, it leaves two-thirds of a circle unobserved all the time it is searching for a target. And the Russians provided this to the 'militants' for air defense? They should be shot. ..."
"... There is no telling what kind of ordnance might be found in the wreckage itself, as the Ukrainian Army continued to shell the site for days after the crash; doubtless various artillery shells could be found at the crash site, as well, but it would be quite a leap of faith to suggest a Boeing 777 was shot down by artillery. What you would not find is pieces of the SAM that shot it down. ..."
"... Nor is that by any means all. The Dutch investigation which concluded with the preliminary report implied that nothing of any investigative value was found on the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) or the Flight Data Recorder (FDR). Nothing to indicate what might have happened to the aircraft – just that it was flying along, and suddenly it wasn't. How likely is that? No transcript was provided, and I guess that would be expected if there was no information at all. Funny how often that happens with Malaysian airliners; they really need to look at their quality control. Oh; except they don't build the aircraft. Boeing does. I could see there not being any information after the plane began to break up, because both the CVR and the FDR are in the tail , and that broke off before the fuselage hit. But the microphones are in the ceiling of the cockpit and in the microphone and earpiece of the pilots' headsets, which they wear at all times while in flight. The last audio claimed to have been recorded was a course alteration sent by Ukrainian ATC. ..."
"... According to the Malaysian government, there was an early plan by NATO for a military operation involving some 9000 troops to 'secure the crash site', which was forestalled by a covert Malaysian operation which recovered the 'black boxes' and blocked the plan. I have to say that given the many, many other unorthodox and bizarre happenings in the conduct of what was supposed to be a transparent and impartial international investigation, it's getting so nothing much is unbelievable. The Malaysian Prime Minister went on record as believing that the western powers had already concluded that Russia was responsible, and were mostly just going through the motions of investigating. ..."
"... The telephone recordings presented by the SBU as demonstrating Russian culpability were analyzed by OG IT Forensic Services, a Malaysian firm specializing in forensic analysis of audio, video and digital materials for court proceedings, which concluded the recordings were cut, edited and fabricated . Yet they are relied upon as important evidence of guilt by the Dutch and the JIT. ..."
>Uncle Volodya says, "We become slaves the moment we hand the keys to the definition of reality entirely over to someone else,
whether it is a business, an economic theory, a political party, the White House, Newsworld or CNN."
"The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous.
In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans
until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan."
– Adolf Hitler
We're going to do something just a bit different today; the event I want to talk about is current – in the future, actually –
but the reference which is the subject of the discussion is almost a year old. and the event it discusses is coming up to its sixth
anniversary. The past event was the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH-17 over Ukraine, the future event is the trial in
absentia of persons accused by the west of having perpetrated that disaster, and the reference is this piece, by Mark Galeotti,
for the Moscow Times:
"Russia's Roadmap
Out of the MH17 Crisis" .
You all know Mr. Galeotti, I'm sure. Here's his bio, for Amazon:
"Professor Mark Galeotti is a senior researcher at UMV, the Institute of International Relations Prague, and coordinator of
its Centre for European Security. Formerly, he was Professor of Global Affairs at New York University and head of History at Keele
University. Educated at Cambridge University and the LSE, he is a specialist in modern Russian politics and security and transnational
organized crime. And he writes other things for fun, too "
Yes, yes, he certainly does, as you will see. But this bio is extremely modest, albeit he most likely wrote it himself. Mr. Galeotti
also authored an excellent blog, In Moscow's Shadows , which was once a go-to reference for crime and legal issues in Russia,
a subject in which he seems very well-informed. The blog is still active, although he seems mostly to use it now to advertise podcasts
and sell books. That's understandable – it's evident from the blur of titles appended to his name that he's a very busy man. Always
has been, really; either as a student or an educator. He also speaks with confidence on the details of military affairs and equipment
despite never having been in the military or studied engineering; his education has pretty much all been in history, law or political
science.
I know what you will say – many of the greatest reference works on pivotal battles, overall military campaigns and affairs were
written by those who had no personal military experience themselves. Mr. Galeotti studied under Dominic Lieven, whose
"Russia Against Napoleon"
was perhaps the greatest work of military history, rich with detail and insight, that I have ever read. It won him the Wolfson
prize for History for 2010, a well-deserved honour. Yet so far as I could make out, Mr. Lieven never served a day in uniform, and
if you handed him an AK-47 and said "Here; field-strip this", your likely response would be a blank look. He most certainly was not
a witness to the subject military campaign. No; his epic work on Napoleon's invasion of Russia was informed by research, reading
the accounts of others who were there at the time, poring over reams of old documents and matching references to get the best picture
we have been afforded to date of Napoleon's ignominious defeat through a combination of imperial overreach, a poor grasp of logistics
and, most of all, resistance by an adversary who refused to be drawn into playing to Napoleon's strength – the decisive, crushing
battle in which the enemy could not retreat, and in which Napoleon would commit all the reserves and crush his enemy to dust.
So it is perfectly possible for an inquisitive mind with no military experience to put together an excellent reference on military
happenings which already took place, even if the owner of that mind was not present for the actual event. Given human nature and
the capabilities afforded by modern military equipment, it is even possible to forecast future military events with a fair degree
of accuracy, going merely by political ambitions and enabling factors, without any personal military experience. After all, the decision-makers
who give the orders that send their military forces into battle are often not military men themselves.
Returning for a moment to Mr. Galeotti, it is quite believable that an author with no military background could compose such works
as "Armies of the Russian-Ukrainian War" , although there is no serious evidence that Russia is a part of such a conflict
in any real military strength. You could write such a book entirely from media references and documentation, which in this case would
come almost entirely from the side which claims it is under constant attack by the other – Ukraine. Likewise "Kulikovo 1380;
the Battle that Made Russia" . None of us were around in 1380, so we all have to go by historical references, and whoever collects
them all into a book first is likely to be regarded as an expert.
No, it's more when we get into how stuff works that I have an issue with it. Like " Spetsnaz: Russia's Special Forces
". Or " The Modern Russian Army ". I'm kind of skeptical about how someone could claim to know the actual internal workings
of either organization simply from reading about them in popular references, considering that more than half the material on Russia
written in English in western references is rubbish heavily influenced by politics and policy. We would not have to look very far
to find examples in which ridiculous overconfidence by one side that it had the other side's number resulted in a horrible surprise.
In fact, we would not have to look very far to find an example of this particular author confidently averring to know something inside-out,
only to find that version
of reality could not be sustained . And I would no more turn to a Senior Non-Resident Fellow at the Institute of International
Relations Prague for expert analysis of the "Combat Vehicles of Russia's Special Forces" than I would ask a house painter
to cut my hair. Unless I see some recollections of a college-age Galeotti tinkering with drivetrains and differentials until the
sun went down from a pure love of mechanics, I am going to go ahead and assume that he knows what the vast majority of us knows about
military vehicles – he could pick one out of a lineup which included a melon, a goat and an Armored Personnel Carrier, and if it
had a flat tire he could probably fix it given time and the essential equipment.
Just before we move on, the future event: the MH-17 'trial' has been
postponed
until June 8th , to give defense attorneys more time to prepare after the amazingly fortuitous capture of a 'key witness' in
Eastern Ukraine. I'm not going to elaborate here on what a kicking-the-can-down-the-road crock this is; we'll pick that up later.
The whole MH-17 'investigation' has been such a ridiculous exercise in funneling the pursuit to a single inescapable conclusion –
that Russia shot it down – irrespective of how many points have to be bent to fit the curve that no matter how it comes out, it will
stand as perhaps the greatest example of absurd western self-justification ever recorded.
There are a couple of ways of solving a mystery crime. One is to collect evidence, and follow where it takes you. Another is to
decide who you want to have been responsible, and then construct a sequence of events in which they might have done it. To do that,
especially in this case, we will have to throw out a few assumptions, such as all that stuff about means, motive and opportunity.
In the absence of a believable scenario, that is. Let's look at what we have, and what we need, and see how we get from there to
here.
First, we need for Ukraine not to have been responsible. That's going to be awkward, because it looks as if the aircraft was shot
down by a missile, but the missile had to have come from inside Ukraine, because the aircraft was too far from the nearest point
in Russia at the moment it was stricken for the missile to have come from there. But we need Russia to have been responsible, and
not Ukraine. Therefore we need a sequence of events in which a Russian missile launcher capable of shooting down an airliner at cruising
altitude was inside Ukraine, in a position from which it could have taken the shot.
You know what? We are going to have to look at means, motive and opportunity, just for a second. My purpose in doing
so is to illustrate just how improbable the western narrative is, starting from square one. The coup in Ukraine – and anyone who
believes it was a 'grass-roots revolution' might as well stop reading right here, because we are going to just get further apart
in our impressions of events – followed by the triumphant promise from the revolutionaries to repeal Yanukovych's language laws and
make Ukrainian the law of the land touched off the return of Crimea to its ancestral home in the Russian Federation. Crimea was about
65% ethnic Russian by population at the time, and only about 15% Ukrainian, and Crimea had made several attempts to break free of
Ukraine before that yet for some reason the west refused steadfastly to accept the results of a referendum which voted in favour
of Crimea becoming a part of the Russian Federation, as if it were more believable that a huge ethnic-Russian majority preferred
to learn Ukrainian and be governed by Kiev.
Be that as it may, Washington reacted very angrily; much more so than Europe, considering the distance between the United States
and Ukraine versus its proximity to Europe. Perhaps that is owed simply to Washington's assumption that every corner of the world
looks to it for leadership, and that it must have a position ready on any given situation, regardless how distant. So Washington
insisted there must be sanctions against Russia, for stealing Crimea from its rightful owner, Ukraine. We're not really going to
get into struggles for freedom and the right to self-determination right now, except to state that the USA considers nothing more
important in some cases, while in others it is completely irrelevant. Washington demanded sanctions but
much of Europe was reluctant .
"It is notoriously difficult to secure EU agreement on sanctions anywhere because they require unanimity from the 28 member
states. There were wide differences over the numbers of Russians and Crimeans to be punished, with countries such as Greece, Cyprus,
Bulgaria and Spain reluctant to penalise Moscow for fear of closing down channels of dialogue. The 21 named were on an original list
that ran to about 120 people Expanding the numbers on the sanctions list is almost certain to be discussed at the EU summit on Thursday
and Friday. Some EU states are torn about taking punitive measures against Russia for fear of undoing years of patient attempts to
establish closer ties with Moscow as well as increase trade. The EU has already suspended talks with Russia on an economic pact and
a visa agreement The German foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, said any measure must leave "ways and possibilities open to
prevent a further escalation that could lead to the division of Europe" .
The original list of those to be sanctioned was 120 people. The haggling reduced that to 21. Only 7 of those were Russians. Putin
was not included. That was pretty plainly not the United Front That Speaks With One Voice that Washington had envisioned, and the
notion that Europe would buy into sanctions that might really do some damage to Russia, albeit there would be economic costs to Europe
as well, was a dim prospect.
Gosh – you know what we need? An atrocity which can be quickly tied to Russia, and which will so appall the EU member states that
resistance to far-reaching sanctions will collapse. That's called 'motive'. It's just not a motive for Russia. Having just gone far
out on a limb and taken back Crimea, to the obvious and vocal fury of the United States, it is a bit of a stretch that Russia was
looking for what else it could do that would stir up the world against it.
Means, now. That presents its own dilemma. Because Russia could have shot down an airliner from its own territory. Just not with
the weapon chosen. The S-400 could have done it; it has the range, easily. But if you were setting up a scenario in which something
happened that you wanted to blame on Russia, but they didn't really do it, you must have the weapon to do it yourself, or access
to it. By any reasonable construct, Ukraine must be a suspect as well – there was a hot war going on in Ukraine, Ukraine controlled
both the airspace and the aircraft that was lost, and the aircraft was lost over Ukrainian territory. But Ukraine doesn't have the
S-400. You could use a variety of western systems, but it would quickly be established that the plane was shot down with a weapon
that Russia does not have. In order for the narrative to be believable, Russia must have the weapon – but if it wasn't Russia, then
whoever did it must have the weapon, too.
Enter the Buk system, with the 9K37 SA-11 missile. It's got the range, it's got the altitude, the Russians have it in active service.
Oooo problem. It's got the range, but only if it was fired from inside Ukraine.
Which brings us back to Mr. Galeotti, an expert in Russian combat systems; enough of an expert to write books on them, anyway.
And he plainly believes it was an SA-11 missile fired from a single Buk TELAR (Transporter/Erector/Launcher and Radar) which brought
down the Boeing; he says that's what the evidence demonstrates, although by this time (2019) most of the world has backed away from
saying Putin showed up with no shirt on to close the firing switch personally (cue the instant British-press screaming headlines
before the dust had even settled, "PUTIN'S MISSILE!!!" "PUTIN KILLED MY SON!!!"). Now the story is that the disgraceful deed was
done by 'Ukrainian anti-government militants', using a weapon supplied by Russia.
"In this context, a full reversal of policy seems near-enough impossible. The evidence suggests that while the fateful missile
was fired by Ukrainian anti-government militants, it was supplied by the Russian 53rd Air Defense Brigade under orders from Moscow
and in a process managed by Russian military intelligence.
To admit this would not only be to acknowledge a share in the unlawful killing of 298 innocents, but also an unpicking of
the whole Kremlin narrative over the Donbass. It would mean admitting to having been an active participant in this bloody compound
of civil war and foreign intervention, to having armed the militants without due thought as to the consequences, and to having lied
to the world and the Russian people for half a decade."
We don't really have the scope in this piece to broaden the discussion to Russia's probable actual involvement. Suffice it to
say that despite non-stop allegations by Poroshenko throughout his presidency of entire battalions of active-service Russian Army
soldiers inside Ukraine, zero evidence has ever been provided of any such presence, although there have been
some clumsy attempts to fabricate
it . To argue that the Russian Army has been trying to overrun Ukraine for six years now, but has been unable to do so because
of the combat prowess of the Ukrainian Army is to imply a belief in leprechauns. This is only my own inexpert opinion, but it seems
likely to me the complete extent of Russia's involvement, militarily, is the minimum which prevents Eastern Ukraine from being overrun
by the Ukrainian military, and including the rebel areas' own far-from-inconsequential military forces. I'm always ready to entertain
competing theories, though; be sure to bring your evidence. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian Constitution prohibits using the country's military
forces against its own citizens. The logic of 'Have cake, and eat it" cannot apply here – either the Ukrainian state is in direct
and obvious violation of its own constitution or the people of the breakaway regions are not Ukrainian citizens.
Anyway, back to the Buk system. And not a moment before time, either – I just re-read that
sanctimonious stab above, again; " having armed the militants without due thought as to the consequences " What, exactly,
is the ridiculous nature of the accusation being presented here? That the Russians gave an anti-aircraft system to the 'militants'
without considering they might use it to shoot down an aircraft? How did they not see that coming? The Ukrainian Army
shot down a civilian airliner in October of 2001
, and lied about it for as long as it could – interestingly, it took place during joint Ukrainian-Russian air defense exercises
on the Crimean peninsula, and Russia tried hard to avoid assigning blame to Ukraine, while at least one Israeli television station
claimed the Russians had shot down their own aircraft. This disaster and subsequent lying did not prevent the USA from giving the
Javelin missile to Ukraine – did it not occur to them that they might use it to shoot tanks? No due thought to the consequences,
obviously.
The Buk air-defense system normally consists of at least
4 TELAR launchers , each with 4 missiles on the launch rails, a self-propelled acquisition radar designated by NATO nomenclature
as Snow Drift (the radar on the nose of the TELAR unit itself is designated Fire Dome), and a self-propelled command post, for a
minimum of 6 vehicles. Also usually part of the system is a mobile crane, to reload the launchers. If you were going to supply an
air-defense system to militant rebels, why wouldn't you give them the whole system? In a pinch, you might be able to get away without
the command post vehicle, although it is the station that collates all the input from the sensors and makes the decision to assign
targets for acquisition, tracking and engagement. If you didn't give them the crane vehicle, and perhaps a logistics truck with some
reloads, they would be limited to the missiles that came already mounted – once those were fired, they'd have to abandon the system,
because they couldn't reload it. Seems a little wasteful, don't you think?
What about the acquisition radar? Because acquiring targets is all about scanning capability and situational awareness. We're
going to assume for a moment that you don't use an air defense system exclusively to hunt for airliners, but that you want to defend
yourself against ground-attack aircraft like the Sukhoi SU-25. Because, when you think about it, who is more likely to be trying
to kill you ? A Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, or an SU-25? The latter is not quite as fast as an airliner at its cruising
height of 30,000 ft+, but it is very agile and will be nearly down in the treetops if it is attacking you. You need to be able to
search all around, all the time.
That's where the acquisition radar comes in. A centimetric waveband search radar, the
Snow Drift (called the 9S18M1 by
its designer) has 360-degree coverage and from 0 to 40 degrees of height in a 6-second sweep in anti-aircraft mode, with a 160 km
detection range, obviously dependent on target altitude. An airliner, being a large target not attempting to evade detection, and
at a high altitude, would quite possibly be detected at the maximum range of which the system is capable. But then the operators
would certainly know it was an airliner. And the narrative says whoever shot it down probably did so by accident.
Maybe if it was his first day on the job. Let's talk for a minute about air-defense deconfliction. It would be nice if your Command
parked you somewhere that there was nothing around you but enemies. Well, not as nice as parking you across the street from a pulled-pork
barbecue joint with strippers and cold beer, but from a defense standpoint, it'd be nice to know that anything you detected, you
could shoot. Know something? It's never like that. Your own aircraft are flying around as if they didn't even know you are dangerous,
and as everyone now knows, civilian airliners continue their transport enterprises irrespective of war except in rare instances in
which high-flying aircraft have been shot down by long-range missiles. That rarely happens. Why? Because an aircraft flying a steady
course, at 30,000 ft+ and not descending, is no threat to you on the ground. From that altitude it can't even see you in the ground
clutter, and it'd be quite a bombardier that could hit a target the size of a two-car garage with a bomb dropped from 30,000 ft while
flying at 400 knots.
And unless you are an idiot, you know it is an airliner. When you are deployed into the field in an air-defense role, you know
where the commercial airlanes are that are going to be active. You know what a commercial-aviation profile looks like – aircraft
at 30,000 ft+ altitude, flying at ≥400 knots on a steady course, squawking Mode 3 and Charlie = airliner. Might as well take a moment
here to talk about
IFF ; Identification
Friend or Foe. This is a coded pulse signal transmitted by all commercial aircraft whenever they are in flight unless their equipment
is non-functional, and you are not allowed to take off with it in that state. Mode C provides the aircraft's altitude, taken automatically
from its barometric altimeter. All modern air search radars have IFF capability, and a dashed line just below the raw video of the
air track can be interrogated with a light-pen to provide the readout. You already know how high the plane is if you have a solid
radar track, but Mode C provides a confirmation.
Military aircraft have IFF transponders, too; in fact, most of the modes are reserved for military use. But military aircraft
often turn off their IFF equipment, because it provides a giveaway who and where they are. In Ukraine, which uses mostly Soviet military
aircraft, both sides are capable of reading each other's IFF, so all the more reason not to transmit. Foreign nations typically cannot
read each other's IFF except for the modes which are for both military and civilian use, other than those nations who are allies.
Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that the Snow Drift acquisition radar has IFF, and if it detected an airliner-like target at
160 km., the operator would have that much more time to interrogate it and determine it was an airliner. Just to reiterate, the western
narrative holds that the destruction of the airliner was a mistake.
I'm going a little further with my inexpert opinion, to say that the Buk system was selected as the 'murder weapon', because it
provides a limited autonomous capability. To be clear, the Fire Dome radar on the nose of the TELAR does have a limited search capability,
and once the radar is locked on to a target, the TELAR vehicle is completely autonomous. The purpose of the surveillance radar is
to detect the target from far beyond the Fire Dome's range, assign it to a TELAR and thereby direct it to the elevation and bearing
of the target so that the TELAR's radar knows exactly where to look, and continue to update its position until the TELAR to which
it was assigned has locked on to the target.
That autonomous capability is probably what made it attractive to those building the scenario; consider. A complete Buk system
of 6, maybe 7 vehicles could hardly get all the way inside Ukraine to the firing position without being noticed and perhaps recorded.
But perhaps a single TELAR could do it. The aircraft could be shot down by an SA-11 missile and blamed on Russia – Ukraine has access
to plenty of SA-11's. But it is a weapon in the Russian active-service inventory. Further, Galeotti's commitment to the allegation
that the single TELAR was provided by Russia's 53rd Air Defense Brigade tells us he supports the crackpot narrative offered by Bellingcat,
the loopy citizen-journalist website headed by failed financial clerk Eliot Higgins. Bellingcat claims the Buk TELAR was trucked
into Ukraine on the back of a flatbed, took the shot that slew MH-17, and was immediately withdrawn back to Russia.
Ummm .how was that an accident? The Russians gave the Ukrainian militants a single launcher with no crane or reload missiles,
so it was limited to a maximum of four shots. Its ability to defend itself from ground attack was almost nil, since the design purpose
of mounting a Fire Dome radar
on each TELAR is not to make the launcher units autonomous; it is to permit concurrent engagements by several launchers, all
coordinated by the acquisition radar and command post. Without a radar of its own on the launcher, the firing unit would have to
wait until each engagement was completed before it could switch to a new target, but with a fire-control guidance radar on each TELAR,
multiple targets can be assigned to multiple launchers, while the search radar limits itself to acquisition and target assignment.
The Fire Dome radar mounted on the TELAR can search a 120-degree sector in 4 seconds, at an elevation of 6 to 7 degrees. Its search
function is maximized for defense against ground attack aircraft, and a single launcher is not looking at 240 degrees of potential
air threat axis during each sweep. It is not looking high enough to see an airliner at 30,000 ft+. More importantly for a system
which was not designed to shoot down helpless airliners, it leaves two-thirds of a circle unobserved all the time it is searching
for a target. And the Russians provided this to the 'militants' for air defense? They should be shot.
A single TELAR with no reloads and no acquisition radar would have to be looking directly at the target when it was activated
in order to even see it; it takes 15 seconds for the launcher to swing into line and elevation even when that information is transmitted
to it from the acquisition radar. It takes 4 seconds for a scan to be completed when there is a whole two-thirds of a circle that
it is not even looking at, and you have to manually force it to search above 7 degrees because it is not designed to shoot down airliners.
All this time, the target is crossing the acquisition scope at 400 knots+. Fire Dome has integrated IFF, so if it did by some miracle
pick up an airliner in its search, the operator would know from transmitted IFF that he was looking at an airliner. A single TELAR
with no reload capability sent on an air-defense mission would have its ass ripped in half by ground-attack aircraft that it never
saw – if the autonomous capability is so good, why don't the Ukrainians use them as a single unit? Think of how much air-defense
coverage they could provide! Do you see the Ukrainian air-defense units employing the Buk that way? Never. Not once. Four TELARS,
acquisition radar vehicle, command vehicle, just the way the system was designed to operate.
Just because it has a limited capability to function in a given capacity should not suggest you would employ it that way. You
can use a hockey stick to turn off the bedroom light, and you won't even have to get out of bed. Would you do that? I hope not.
A one-third effective capacity in the air defense role together with the covert delivery and immediate withdrawal suggests that
the Russians provided the 'militants' with a single TELAR for the express purpose of shooting down a defenseless airliner. Except
nobody is saying that. It was a mistake. Well, except for Head of the Security Service of Ukraine Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, who claimed
"Terrorists and militants have planned a cynical terrorist attack on a civilian aircraft Aeroflot AFL-2074 Moscow-Larnaka that was
flying at that time above the territory of Ukraine." He further claimed that this was motivated by a desire to 'justify an invasion'.
I'm pretty sure if any western authority could prove anything even close to that, we would not have had to wait 6 years for a trial.
Which brings us to the covert delivery and extraction. As part of his personal investigation, Max van der Werff drove the route
Bellingcat claimed was the extraction route by which the single TELAR, on its flatbed, was returned to Russia. He verified that there
is a highway overpass on the route which is too low for a load that tall to pass underneath. When he pointed this out to Higgins,
he was told there is a bypass spur which goes around it, which would allow the flatbed to regain the road beyond without having gone
through the overpass. Max drew his attention to the concrete barriers which blocked that road at the top of the hill, and which locals
claimed had been in place long before the destruction of MH-17. And that was the end of that conversation. I cannot say enough about
the quality of Max's work and his diligent, patient dissection
of the evidence . His diagrams of the entry and egress routes as provided by Bellingcat illustrate how little sense they make.
It was imperative the guilty Russians get the fuck out of Dodge with the greatest possible dispatch so they drove 100 kilometers
out of their way? Don't even terrorist murderers have GPS now?
Similarly, the simpleminded flailing of the Ukrainian investigators suggests they do not even have much of a grasp of how Surface-To-Air
missiles work. In excited posts like this one , the
BBC discloses that an exhaust vent from the tail section of a 'Buk missile' (the missile is actually the SA-11, while Buk is the
entire system) was found in the wreckage of the crashed plane, while
this one
even shows terminally-stunned head prosecutor Fred Westerbeke standing next to what is allegedly part of the rocket body of an
SA-11, including legible inventory markings, also 'found at the crash scene'.
Do tell.
Let me review for you how an SA-11 missile shoots down an aircraft. Does it pierce it like a harpoon, blow up in a thunderous
explosion, and ride the doomed aircraft down to the crash site? It certainly does not. The missile blasts out of the launcher and
flies to the target via semiactive homing, which means it has an onboard seeker that updates the missile trajectory, while the radar
on the launcher also communicates with it and the missile and the target are brought together in intercept. When the proximity fuse
of the missile – this is the important part – senses that the missile's warhead is close to the target, the internal explosive detonates,
and a shower of prefragmented shrapnel pierces the area of the plane near where the missile detonated, usually the front, because
the missile is constantly adjusting to make sure it stays with the target until intercept.
MH-17 traveled on, mostly intact, for miles before it crashed into the ground; the crash site was some 13 miles from where the
plane was hit. The missile self-destructed miles away from the crash site, and the only parts of it which accompanied the plane to
its impact point were the shrapnel bits of the exploded warhead. The body of the missile, together with the exhaust vent, fell back
to the ground somewhere quite close to where the plane was hit, not where it fell. Once the missile's fuel is exhausted, either because
it ran out or because it was consumed in the explosion triggered by the proximity fuse, the missile parts do not fly around in formation,
seeking out the wreckage and coming gently to rest in it where they can later be found by investigators. I don't know how many times
I have to say this, because this is certainly not the first, but there would not be any missile parts in the wreckage of MH-17
because the missile would have blown up in front of the plane without ever touching it. The missile does not hit the plane.
The pieces of the warhead do. But reality has to take a back seat to making out an airtight case.
There is no telling what kind of ordnance might be found in the wreckage itself, as the Ukrainian Army
continued to shell the site
for days after the crash; doubtless various artillery shells could be found at the crash site, as well, but it would be quite
a leap of faith to suggest a Boeing 777 was shot down by artillery. What you would not find is pieces of the SAM that shot it down.
Several witnesses claimed to have seen an SU-25 near the plane before it exploded. They quite possibly did – the Ukrainian Air
Force was observed to be using civilian airliners as cover to allow them to get close to Eastern-Ukrainian villages which might be
protected by hand-held launchers known as MANPADS (for Man-Portable Air Defense System), reasoning the defenders would not shoot
if they were afraid they might hit a civil aircraft. Once they were close enough to the village or other target to make an attack
run, they would then return to the vicinity of the airliner for protection while withdrawing; the rebel side complained about this
illegal and immoral practice a month before the destruction of MH-17. But there is no evidence I am aware of linking the destruction
of MH-17 to an attack by aircraft.
It may no longer be possible to look at the shooting-down of the Malaysian Boeing objectively; the event has become a partisan
rush to judgment which was rendered immediately, after which an investigation began which plainly had as its goal proving the accusations
already made. Means and motive clearly favour the accusers rather than the accused, and opportunity is mostly irrelevant as a consideration.
Ukraine obviously had to be a suspect – the destruction of the aircraft occurred over Ukraine while Ukraine was in control of it
and the airspace in which it traveled. Yet Ukraine was allowed to lead the investigation, and to gather and safeguard evidence, while
the owner of the aircraft – Malaysia – was excluded until the investigation had been in progress for four months. Russia was not
allowed any part in it save to yield whatever evidence the investigators demanded, while all its theories were widely mocked. Demonstrations
set up by Almaz-Antey, the designers and builders of the SA-11, were unattended by any investigating nation – small wonder they do
not have Clue One how the missile works, and believe they are going to find big chunks of it in the wreckage, perhaps with Putin's
passport stuck to one of them. If any of these conditions prevailed in an investigation which favoured Russia, NATO would scream
as if it were being run over with spiked wheels – if the Boeing had been shot down over Russia, who thinks Russia would have been
heading the investigation, and custodian of the evidence?
Nor is that by any means all. The Dutch investigation which concluded with the preliminary report
implied that nothing of any investigative value was found on the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) or the Flight Data Recorder (FDR).
Nothing to indicate what might have happened to the aircraft – just that it was flying along, and suddenly it wasn't. How likely
is that? No transcript was provided, and I guess that would be expected if there was no information at all. Funny how often that
happens with Malaysian airliners; they really need to look at their quality control. Oh; except they don't build the aircraft. Boeing
does. I could see there not being any information after the plane began to break up, because
both the CVR and the FDR are in the
tail , and that broke off before the fuselage hit. But the microphones are in the ceiling of the cockpit and in the microphone
and earpiece of the pilots' headsets, which they wear at all times while in flight. The last audio claimed to have been recorded
was a course alteration sent by Ukrainian ATC.
According to the Malaysian government, there was an early plan by NATO for a military operation involving some 9000 troops to
'secure the crash site', which was
forestalled by a covert Malaysian operation which recovered the 'black boxes' and blocked the plan. I have to say that given
the many, many other unorthodox and bizarre happenings in the conduct of what was supposed to be a transparent and impartial international
investigation, it's getting so nothing much is unbelievable. The Malaysian Prime Minister went on record as believing that the western
powers had already concluded that Russia was responsible, and were mostly just going through the motions of investigating.
The telephone recordings presented by the SBU as demonstrating Russian culpability were analyzed by OG IT Forensic Services, a
Malaysian firm specializing in forensic analysis of audio, video and digital materials for court proceedings, which
concluded the recordings were cut, edited and fabricated . Yet they are relied upon as important evidence of guilt by the Dutch
and the JIT.
The conduct of the investigation has been all the way across town from transparent, and in fact seems to represent a clique of
cronies getting their heads together to attempt nailing down a consistent narrative, which is in the judgment of forensic professionals
based upon clumsy fabrications. The investigators plainly have no understanding of how the weapons systems involved perform, or they
would not claim confidently to have discovered pieces of the very missile that destroyed the plane in the wreckage of it. But rather
than take an objective look at how this flailing is perceived, they continue to rely on momentum and the appearance of getting things
done while being scrupulously impartial, all the while that more mountains of evidence are collected, which they cannot disclose
to the public, although it is all right to let the prime suspect keep it safe under wraps.
Make of that what you will.
" Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the
production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person's obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic exceed his knowledge
of the facts that are relevant to that topic. "
"... This was Bellingcrap's bread-and-butter function, to use satellite photos and make them say whatever Bellingcrap had been tasked to say they were, relying on the fact that mainstream media organisations rarely employ people expert in interpreting satellite imagery, before people outside the MSM environment started voicing suspicions about how the "evidence" for the official MH17 narrative was being worked and whipped into shape to fit that narrative. ..."
" The point is that we often tend to believe satellite photography shows what its
presenters say it shows because we do not have the skill to interpret it ourselves "
This was Bellingcrap's bread-and-butter function, to use satellite photos and make them
say whatever Bellingcrap had been tasked to say they were, relying on the fact that
mainstream media organisations rarely employ people expert in interpreting satellite imagery,
before people outside the MSM environment started voicing suspicions about how the "evidence"
for the official MH17 narrative was being worked and whipped into shape to fit that
narrative.
It's my understanding that there is a company in Colorado, called Digital something or
other, that supplies a huge amount of satellite imagery to the US government and other big
clients.
Incidentally not long after China slapped anti-dumping tariffs on Australian barley (and
switched to buying barley from the US) and suspended beef imports from four Australian
abattoirs, Australia's foreign minister Maryse Payne phoned her Russian counterpart
apparently to request that Russia send more tourists to Australia and buy more Australian
products. Imagine Sergei Lavrov's initial reaction before he went straight into his
diplomatic persona. As John Helmer
bluntly puts it :
" Lavrov replied that Australia should stop fabricating evidence of Russian involvement
in the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, and withdraw from the Dutch show trial
which is scheduled to resume hearings in Amsterdam next month "
" Russian Foreign Minister [Lavrov] informed [Payne] that Russia will disseminate in the
UN a comprehensive document with the facts revealing the serious problems in the operation
of the Netherlands-established Joint Investigative Team (JIT).
Mr Sergey Lavrov criticised the JIT and said their activities fail to conform to the
high standards set by UN Security Council Resolution 2166.
"Russian experts are ready to hold consultations with their Australian and Netherlands
colleagues to clear up answers to the numerous questions put during their cooperation with
the JIT", he maintained "
Looks like Australia is now between a rock and a hard place. Payne must be really thick to
think that she could play Russia off China.
Nobody seems to catch on that it's always Washington, manipulating and meddling and getting
its poodles to yap for it, and it is the poodles who bear the consequences, while nothing
much accrues to the manipulator. It will be the same with the Huawei affair, mentioned
elsewhere here; it is looking more like Washington will get its way and all its allies will
cave and reject all Huawei gear, whereupon they will all end up with a less-capable and
more-expensive 5G network which meets with American approval, and the allies will pay the
cost in trade reprisals by China.
Mmmm .right. His first name is Vladimir, but everyone calls him Andrei on the phone. The
middle name "Ivanovich" is so unusual in Russia as to have led the investigators straight to
him. Like if I was doing an investigation in America, and the people on the phone kept
referring to a 'William Donald", and my team and I decided to accuse Roscoe Donald Peterson
because he also has the middle name "Donald". Brilliant investigative work. Remind me to make
a donation.
Maybe The Atlantic Council's algorithm that runs through the Moscow telephone-book database
needs replacing. I'm sure it would be pretty worn out after identifying Ruslan Boshirov as
Anatoly Chepiga and Alexander Petrov as Alexander Mishkin and is now prone to making mistakes
such as confusing a name like "Vladimir" with "Andrei". Next thing you know, Bellingcrap will
be telling us that Andrei Kozyrev is the current Russian
President because his middle name is Vladimirovich too.
Further details on the case were shared by the Deputy Interior Minister Anton Gerashenko on
his Facebook page. The ring involved the head of the clinic, her son, as well as two other
Ukrainian and three Chinese nationals. They were charged with human trafficking that may
lead to 12 years in prison with property confiscation.
The majority of the clinic's clients were single Chinese males of "certain orientation," as
Gerashenko put it. While the exact number of trafficked babies remains unknown, at least
140 more Chinese nationals are under investigation, the official added.
Anton Gerashenko is the person that put early (in the first few hours) MH17 propaganda on
social media. The so called intercepted radio calls between rebels and also photograph
supposedly of BUK launch.
Looks like Gerashenko is doing his bit for the China decoupling.
MH17 was the tool to separate EU and the US west from Russia. Covid-19 is the tool to
separate the US west from China.
Majority of people in the west will believe the anti China - China dunnit crap that is
being pumped out by the US and all MSN.
Reuters running an article on Iran speed boats harassing US coast guard vessels When they
were innocently conducting helicopter integration exercises. I guess Iran moved its country
to close to the US.
Trump regime says it wants to have discussions with Iraq in June about moving out. I guess
that means Trump will be making his move on Persian gulf oil before June.
Whatever is coming this covid bullshit is just the beginning - a planned move setting the
stage for what is to come.
The judge in the MH17 trial has issued an order for the US satelite data showing images of
the Buk missile being launched to be made available. If the prosecution is unable (or
refuses) to produce these images then this would strongly indicate that:
1. There was no Buk and MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian jet (which the very first, on
the ground, eyewitnesses indicated).
I tend to think US does have sat recording of the missile. It will show launch flare and
rocket burn. It was quite clear by what Kerry said that this is what their sats pick up.
Launch flare will show launch position to within a few meters.
Robert Parry did a piece on it a few weeks after the shootdown. His contact in the US
intel thought sat pics of the position were showing Ukraine military.
This is what Kerry said within a few days of the MH17 downing:
"We saw the take-off. We saw the trajectory. We saw the hit. We saw this aeroplane
disappear from the radar screens. So there is really no mystery about where it came from and
where these weapons have come from."
But still, nearly 6 years later, no evidence has been provided? Surely you can see how
inauthentic Kerry's statement is? Perhaps, Kerry could clear the matter up by being a witness
at the MH17 trial?
Robert Parry's CIA source feels like an authorised leak and psyop exercise that reinforces
the idea of a Buk and expresses concern about the possibility of Ukrainian military
involvement (the true purpose of which is to create distance and absolve the US) whilst at
the same time being meaningless and of no real value.
You "tend" to believe Kerry and a CIA leak and discount what ordinary Ukrainians witnessed
on the day of the shootdown? Why????
Apparently the Dutch are actually going ahead with a trial over the MH-17 plane shootdown,
seeking to convict in absentia three Russians and a Ukrainian. It is my understanding that a
Dutch military report effectively ruled out exactly the scenario proposed for this trial, and
did so several years ago.
Malaysia has provided the dissent to the MH-17 investigation to date, although a newly
elected government may seek to pull back from overt criticism in the future. A Malaysian
diplomat who has been involved has rather pointed things to say about the politicization of
the investigation and the questionable motivations of the Ukrainians, and claims the court
case is based on hearsay and a voice recording with no provenance. https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/is-malaysias-position-on-mh-17-tragedy-shifting/
"These records show that at their meeting on February 12, 2016, the JIT officials agreed
that the "requested information" identified in the December 4, 2015, meeting and including
the US satellite data, was "yet to be completed."
Instead, the only civilian satellite evidence which the JIT later said it has used, comes
from the European Space Agency. In the JIT report of September 28, 2016, the Dutch said "the
European Space Agency (ESA) has aided the investigation team extensively in the search for
relevant images from satellites. This has shown to be of great value: Not only did ESA obtain
images of all relevant civilian satellites, but they also have experts who have assessed
these images. The conclusions drawn by ESA confirm the conclusions of the investigation team
with regard to the launch site."
Note that the JIT refers here to civilian satellites.
The leak last month from the JIT files of two reports from MIVD, the Dutch military
intelligence agency, both dated September 21, 2016, has identified US and NATO military
satellite intelligence ("partner informatie") as the source for MIVD's conclusions that no
Russian BUK missile radar and launch units had crossed the border into Ukraine before or on
July 17, 2014; no BUK missile radar targeting or firing on MH17 had been detected; and no
identified Russian units on the Russian side of the border had launched missiles."
If the US and military satellite images contradict the ESA images, then one set of images
is a fabrication. We
can deduce that the ESA images are almost certainly fabrications because if no Russian buk
crossed the border then
all those photos and videos the jit lynch mob have been trumpeting are fake, essentially
reducing the jit's credibility to zero.
"... Yet the mass media, freakishly, has had absolutely nothing to say about this extremely newsworthy story. ..."
"... The mass media's stone-dead silence on the OPCW scandal is becoming its own scandal, of equal or perhaps even greater significance than the OPCW scandal itself. It opens up a whole litany of questions which have tremendous importance for every citizen of the western world; questions like, how are people supposed to participate in democracy if all the outlets they normally turn to to make informed voting decisions adamantly refuse to tell them about the existence of massive news stories like the OPCW scandal? How are people meant to address such conspiracies of silence when there is no mechanism in place to hold the entire mass media to account for its complicity in it? And by what mechanism are all these outlets unifying in that conspiracy of silence? ..."
"... This is the FOURTH leak showing how the OPCW fabricated a report on a supposed Syrian 'chemical' attack," tweeted journalist Ben Norton. "And mainstream Western corporate media outlets are still silent, showing how authoritarian these 'democracies' are and how tightly they control info." "Media silence on this story is its own scandal," "Media silence on this story is its own scandal," "Media silence on this story is its own scandal," tweeted journalist Aaron Maté. ..."
This is getting really, really, really weird. WikiLeaks has WikiLeaks has
published yet another set of leaked
internal documents from within the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) adding even more material to
the mountain of evidence that we've been lied to about an alleged chemical weapons attack in Douma, Syria last year which resulted
in airstrikes upon that nation from the US, UK and France.
Another strong nail in the
coffin cover of the official version of the "investigation" of the MH-17 crash in Ukraine in
2014.
However, liars will bring this six-year farce to the end. Soon the so-called "court" will
take place, and we will see another funny performance of the clowns (aka
"investigators").
Was anyone aware that in 1991 in the Ukraine almost 100% of the population had indoor running
water, but as of 2014 that was down to 87%? I'm talking of the western portion of the Ukraine
here and not the part being attacked by neo-Nazis where it is unsurprising that
infrastructure is being destroyed.
I was curious what happened to the Ukraine's infrastructure since the Soviet Union was
dissolved so I asked some Ukrops what was up. Apparently Putin himself has been sneaking into
the Ukraine at night and stealing the plumbing right out of people's houses. I kid thee not!
Putin did it! Ukrops wouldn't lie about that, would they?
If you think what Putin is doing to America is bad, then just be thankful you are not in
Ukropistan! Over there Putin causes people to stub their toes on the furniture when they get
out of bed to take a leak at night. He tricks people into not bringing their umbrellas on
days that it rains. He even causes babies to foul their diapers right after they were
changed. Putin's evil knows no bounds!
Poroshenko has asked the US for help with criminal cases in the Ukraine, writes
media
05:31
MOSCOW, 1 Jul – RIA Novosti.The former President of the Ukraine Petro
Poroshenko is in Istanbul, where he has turned to American companies to lobby for protection
from criminal cases, reports "
Ukraine News " with reference to sources.
It has been noted that in the Ukraine changes have been made as regards the criminal
cases against Poroshenko. In particular, in May 2019, the former-president's lawyer Igor
Golovan stated that these criminal cases would not entail any legal consequences, but now
Poroshenko's entourage realizes that the criminal prosecution of the former president has
noticeably intensified and may have consequences.
Therefore, according to the newspaper, in Turkey Poroshenko has started to lobbying
U.S. companies, in particular, the BGR group, for assistance in resolving these
cases.
"He is well aware that everything that happens in the RRG (State Bureau of
investigation – trans. ed.) is taken very seriously, and he intends to defend himself
against attacks. He can, for example, be expecting public support in Washington if there is
an attempt made to arrest him", said the source.
In addition, the publication cites the words of Ukrainian political scientist Alexei
Yakubin, who has noted that Poroshenko could repeat the "Saakashvili scenario".
"For example, he'll leave for treatment in London, where part of his entourage has
entrenched itself. But this model complicates the public protection of his business assets
within the country, which assets might be seized", he said.
The case against Poroshenko
Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards
his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo",
his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial
power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in
the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and
the seizure of power.
In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the
Euromaidan protests in 2014.
Poroshenko himself, speaking at the party congress of "European Business", said that he
is responsible only before the Ukrainian people and is not afraid of persecution.
Quite right, old man; keep your chin up. I daresay they're staying in quite prestigious digs
in Istanbul, as befits visiting royalty. He seems to be labouring under a misapprehension
that he is valuable somehow to Washington, whereas that would only be true if Washington were
unwilling to work with Zelenskiy, and wanted him out of the way. So far as I can see,
Washington is quite satisfied with Zelenskiy so far, while the people would not countenance a
Poroshenko return. So he's not really much use, is he? Especially if the USA wishes to
publicly support Zelenskiy's supposed battle with official corruption.
I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it,
what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I
would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious
interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor
fired.
Yes, I was sort of getting at the probability that Clan Poroshenko is just installed in a
very nice hotel. I doubt he will want to be plunking down money for an actual property so
long as the status of his assets still in Ukraine is still up in the air. I should imagine
the Ukrainian government will take steps, if it has not already, to prevent his simply
withdrawing their cash value.
The thing about the pindosi, though, is that they always hedge their bets .
I vangize that they will pressure Zel to pardon Porky. So that they have a spare.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.
I doubt it, simply because it would kick the timbers right out from under Zelenskiy's
anti-corruption platform, which is the issue on which he was voted in, and there would be no
way to do it under the radar. The Ukrainian people must be following Porky's flight with
great interest, and inferring that it means he has something to hide. Therefore an abrupt
discontinuing of the pursuit, and a refocusing elsewhere, would tell them accountability is
not attributed to the powerful and wealthy. Which is uhhh exactly the opposite of Zelenskiy's
message.
The present Dutch PM Rutte is more of a CIA poodle than Tony Blair was. MH17 a case in point.
The Dutch judicial set up is populated with similar drones: the assassin of prominent Dutch
politician Pim Fortuyn is walking free after less jail time than other criminals. Holland is
gone to the dogs.
Kevin Smith: "Higgins is currently frantically trying to prop up the Douma narrative against a mountain of evidence disproving
his conclusions. For those who’ve followed his story, it’s clear that Higgins is an intelligence asset, set up to take the fall
when the currently collapsing narratives take hold in the mainstream.
"You didn't think that one through, did you, @eliothiggins sweetie? You're not in the
ladies' lingerie trade now. This discussion is about truth, which endures, is not held together
by elastic, and is not for sale." ~Peter Hitchens responding to Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat over the OPCW scandal on
Twitter – 2 January 2020.
"... I believe more people nowadays recognise that the devastating wars in Iraq and Libya and events in Syria were pushed by our governments and media. They can even accept, when you explain, that we've been assisting terrorists to unseat governments for years. But they seem hesitant of taking the next step and we need to encourage them on this path. ..."
"... This path leads to recognising the sheer evil in our midst and getting out of this mindset that criminal behavior and lying in governments and in our media is normal or should in any way be tolerated. Perhaps some people appreciate this already but don't want to address it out of concern to what they might find. Maybe some people dread the thought of a global conflict so ignore it. But we need to hammer home the consequences of simply doing nothing. ..."
"... I've been trying to think of an analogy to try to get this point across. I sometimes say to people, we wouldn't have released a serial killer like Harold Shipman from prison and appointed him Foreign Secretary. Therefore, why do we tolerate a long line of Foreign Secretaries complicit in laying waste to the world? Sadly, with this analogy most people usually look back at me blankly so I have been searching for one more complete and rooted in history which people can relate better to events today. ..."
"You didn't think that one through, did you, @eliothiggins sweetie? You're not in the
ladies' lingerie trade now. This discussion is about truth, which endures, is not held
together by elastic, and is not for sale."
Peter Hitchens responding to Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat over the OPCW scandal on
Twitter – 2 January 2020.
Like many, I've been following the Douma scandal for some time and particularly since the
OPCW whistleblowers and leaked emails blew the lid off the official narrative that Assad used
chemical weapons there.
For the past few weeks he's been debating the topic with Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat, Scott Lucas and various Middle East based journalists
who created and then pushed the false narrative.
In fact, it's not really a debate. Peter Hitchens is quite literally slaughtering these
narrative managers – his logic and clear thinking – and wit exposing the numerous
gaps in their story and their desperate deflections.
Hitchens position is not exactly the same as many of us here hold – that Douma was a
clear false flag. What he is saying is the evidence points to there being no chemical attack by
the Syrian government, the pretext used for the attack on Syria. He doesn't wish to speculate
on matters which aren't conclusively proven, for example precisely on what did actually
happen.
I respect that position in many ways and his refusal to comment on the dead civilians in the
Douma images makes sense from a journalist in the mainstream. I think by having a position
which is clear and unassailable enables him to easily brush off his online detractors and not
allow them to deflect to other issues.
While I don't agree with everything he says, Hitchens has a calm and rational argument for
all the issues he covers. This puts clear ground between him and his online opponents who often
resort to childish abuse.
My 80-year old mum admires him too. She describes him as 'frightfully posh'. Perhaps someone
who might have belonged in a previous age – but I'm glad we have him in this one.
Anyway, I think we can be sure that Hitchens will continue his important work within the
remit he's chosen and others will investigate the unanswered questions which arise from the
Douma incident.
Ultimately the question about the dead civilians in the images is simply too dreadful to
ignore.
This is because if a chemical attack did not take place and Assad was not responsible it
seems highly likely that the civilians including children were murdered to facilitate a
fabrication.
And were our own intelligence agencies involved in a staged event, considering the refusal
to even establish the basic facts in the days following?
And then, of course, the resulting air strikes nearly caused us to go to war with Russia,
with all that would entail.
While these investigations continue, I think it's timely to see where these events fit into
the way the general public think and perceive wrongdoing and to try to radically to change
this.
I believe more people nowadays recognise that the devastating wars in Iraq and Libya and
events in Syria were pushed by our governments and media. They can even accept, when you
explain, that we've been assisting terrorists to unseat governments for years. But they seem
hesitant of taking the next step and we need to encourage them on this path.
This path leads to recognising the sheer evil in our midst and getting out of this mindset
that criminal behavior and lying in governments and in our media is normal or should in any way
be tolerated. Perhaps some people appreciate this already but don't want to address it out of
concern to what they might find. Maybe some people dread the thought of a global conflict so
ignore it. But we need to hammer home the consequences of simply doing nothing.
I've been trying to think of an analogy to try to get this point across. I sometimes say to
people, we wouldn't have released a serial killer like Harold Shipman from prison and appointed
him Foreign Secretary. Therefore, why do we tolerate a long line of Foreign Secretaries
complicit in laying waste to the world? Sadly, with this analogy most people usually look back
at me blankly so I have been searching for one more complete and rooted in history which people
can relate better to events today.
So, here follows an analogy of a character who lived in the 17th century. His traits, his
crimes, the political climate and peoples misguided perceptions in response can be compared to
recent events and one particular individual causing havoc in the world today.
Of course I refer to Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat.
Eliot ( 'suck my balls' ) Higgins and
Titus Oates1. Eliot Higgins and Bellingcat
Higgins probably doesn't need much of an introduction here. It seems he has no specific
qualifications relevant to his role and a bit of a drop-out in terms of education.
Before the Arab spring I knew no more about weapons than the average Xbox owner. I had no
knowledge beyond what I'd learned from Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rambo."
But this didn't prevent him blogging about world events and then setting himself up and his
site as investigator for several incidents most notably the shooting down of the MH17 passenger
plane over Ukraine and allegations of chemical weapons use in Syria. It's now known that
Bellingcat is funded by pro-war groups including the Atlantic Council
Higgins has been accused by chemical weapons experts, academics and independent journalists
on the ground of fabricating evidence to reach a predetermined outcome decided on by his
funders.
His rise to prominence was fast and apparently some media editors now refer their
journalists to Bellingcat fabrications rather than allowing them to do any journalism
themselves.
For those who've followed his story, it's clear that Higgins is an intelligence asset, set
up to take the fall when the currently collapsing narratives take hold in the
mainstream.
2. Titus Oates and the Popish Plot
Oates was a foul-mouthed
charlatan , serial liar and master of deception who lived in the 17th century. His earlier
life included being expelled from school and he was labelled a 'dunce' by people who knew him.
He became a clergyman and later joined the Navy. His career was plagued by various sex scandals
and charges of perjury.
In the 1670s during the time of Charles II, religious tensions threatened to spill over into
civil war but the pragmatic King, by and large, kept a lid on it.
However, along with Dr Israel Tonge an anti-Catholic rector, Oates started writing
conspiracy theories and inventing plots and later began writing a manuscript alleging of a plan
to assassinate King Charles II and replace him with his openly Catholic brother.
When the fabrication started to gather momentum, the King had an audience with Oates and was
unconvinced and was said to have found discrepancies in his story.
However, the tense political and religious climate at that time was ideal for conspiracy
theories and scaremongering. The King's ministers took Oates at his word and over a dozen
Catholics were executed for treason. This story created panic and paranoia lasting several
years taking the nation to the brink of civil war.
Over time Oates lies were exposed and when the Catholic King James II came to the throne, he
tried Oates with perjury and he was whipped and placed in the pillory.
After James II fled England during the so-called 'Glorious Revolution' King William and
Queen Mary pardoned Oates and gave him a pension.
For me, this whole episode has many obvious parallels with Higgins, the long-running Russia
and the anti-Semitism witch-hunts in the media and the false narratives over Iraq, Libya and
Syria. Like those in power today, Oates had a knack for getting away with it. And I guess we
can all relate this to Julian Assange – the victims or whistleblowers being punished and
the perpetrators getting off.
I had wondered why James II, often ruthless and unforgiving had not executed Oates. But
apparently the crime of perjury even then didn't carry the death sentence. The judge who
convicted Oates was said to have tried his best to finish him off through the whipping, though
he survived.
But perhaps even the King and judiciary in failing in this or not using other means at their
disposal, couldn't comprehend the enormity of his crimes. Oates was after all a rather absurd
character, open to ridicule.
Perhaps this is a bit similar to people today when discovering that Eliot Higgins is also a
foul-mouthed fraud – but they can't reconcile this comical ex-lingerie employee as a
menace to humanity.
3. Modern day
In the past few weeks I've read various older articles on Iraq and Syria. US troops
shooting people for fun from a helicopter . The perpetrators are still free – the
whistle-blowers who exposed that, and other events in prison or exile.
Last year we learned about a shocking massacre of Syrian children,
unreported in the mainstream media . Mainstream journalists through their one-sided
distortions of the conflict and silence, perpetuating the myth that the terrorists who carried
out this mass murder are freedom fighters.
And as I've mentioned, we've seen firmer evidence of what many of us knew along – that
Douma was a staged fabrication as a pretext for air-strikes and dangerously escalating the
Syrian war. The likes of Eliot Higgins and others in the media, colluding in the cover-up of
mass murder which likely facilitated this event. And for those honest journalists and experts
who bring the truth of these staged events to us,
smears will no doubt continue .
Higgins and others in the media who lie, misinform or remain silent are no better than those
shooting civilians from helicopters or starting these wars in the first place. In fact, they
have killed more and keep killing.
This modern-day Titus Oates, and others share a big responsibility for death and destruction
in the Middle East and a dangerous new Cold War.
As I say, I think people are waking up to the distorted narratives and misdirections which
have inflicted war on others. Now they need to take the next step and grasp the sheer enormity
of the crimes and the risks of global conflict if we don't act.
So, how do we achieve this and get in a position of holding the criminals and war
propagandists to account?
By confronting them directly and mercilessly. As Jeremy Corbyn should have done over the
anti-Semitism hoax. Perhaps we should adopt some of the tactics they use against the
truth-tellers and whistle-blowers. I don't mean by lies or smears. Maybe even ridiculing these
people and their nonsense might have the effect of trivialising the crimes they have
committed.
No, I think it is time for plainer, no-holds-barred language describing these people for the
true evil they are – until the truth and label sticks.
We need to recognise more the seriousness of the crimes. This commentary from the usually
measured Piers Robinson about the staged event in Douma reflects the true gravity of the
situation in
terms of the OPCW complicity .
4. The hijacking of OPCW
The cover-up of evidence that the Douma incident was staged is not merely misconduct. As
the staging of the Douma incident entailed mass murder of civilians, those in OPCW who have
suppressed the evidence of staging are, unwittingly or otherwise, colluding with mass
murder."
We need to now apply this strong language to all crimes committed, be it from the soldiers
on the ground, the governments starting these wars or supplying terrorists or the media which
promote mass murder through their lies, distortions and silence when presented with the true
facts.
We need to go on the offensive and call out the criminals and spell out in no uncertain
terms what we are dealing with. With the evidence and fact-based analogies or arguments we
publish we should be using more commentary such as 'mass murderer', 'traitor' or 'terrorist
propagandist'.
This is particularly important in light of events in recent days. The assassination of
General Qasem Soleimani has been normalised in both mainstream and on social media. The people
legitimising state-sponsored murder in offices thousands of miles away from Iran, woefully
ignorant of the potential of this causing a chain of events which could visit our door
soon.
Above all, we should specifically name and shame the individuals promoting war. This needs
to be relentless. The official war narratives which have crumbled so far are ample evidence of
wrongdoing on a vast scale. So, we can be confident in doing this with the truth firmly on our
side.
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wardropper ,
No, I think it is time for plainer, no-holds-barred language describing these people for the
true evil they are – until the truth and label sticks.
Yes indeed.
I was, however, reminded today of the huge mountain we yet have to climb before it can be
normal again NOT to be corrupt and wicked. The scenario was a session of acrimony in a US
Senate chamber, and according to the NYTimes, "Tensions grew so raw after midnight that Chief
Justice Roberts cut in just before 1 a.m. to admonish the managers and the president's
lawyers to "remember where they are" and return to "civil discourse." "
"Remembering where you are", when dealing with Titus Oates and other vulgar frauds is perhaps
not entirely appropriate ?
wardropper ,
Apologies, I forgot to set the first sentence in quotes
Thom ,
Hitchens may be on the level on this particular issue but it is part of a wider deception
where Hitchens poses as a friend to critical thinkers and then tells them they are helpless
and/or can do nothing about it. If he really had journalistic integrity he wouldn't be taking
a salary from the Mail on Sunday, a newspaper that relentlessly lied for the Tories at the
last election, with the help of the itelligence agencies.
Koba ,
As good as Hitchens has done here he's still at heart a Trotskyist he lives a good split and
a toothless display just like the Trotskyists he used to side with. His brother went from
Trotskyist to soft neocon and peter went from Trotskyist to an ardent Christian Conservative
in a veeeeeery short space of time. Plus there dad was deeeeep in with the establishment and
his mum Jewish. So .
Bellingcrap is just another scam like Dupes (Snopes) and Politi"facts". All of them are
funded by the Atlantic Council and the CIA front National Endowment for "Democracy". Their
cover as an "independent objective fact checking service" is about as transparent as Saran
Wrap.
tonyopmoc ,
I really liked this when I read it this morning, before the grandkids came round, but I
thought some of the comments a bit severe..
I mean this photo is of some 40 year old kid, who lives in Leicester, and his
Mum/wife/sister or whatever works in the local Post Office .
I personally had never heard of Brown Noses, and I have never personnally succeeded in
getting anything I wrote, posted above our below the line, since The Manchester Guardian
moved from Manchester to London, and whilst I do love reading some of the posters' comments
well look face it.
Even though Rhys probabaly doesn't like what this kid writes – Elliot is it? he is
hardly going to come round with a chainsaw, to cut his head off is he? He probably never even
thought of it.
He did say he is small fry, and he probably is still a virgin (been brainwashed – so
he actually belives the model doll is better. What has he got to compare it to?)
So I can't blame any of them.
There are alternatives as well as Facebook, Youtube, Instagram, and all those Dating
Websites, when almost everything you write gets deleted.
Just go down the local pub when there is a good band on. Even I can pull there, but I am
better looking than both Rhys and Elliot
I Like Girls.
I am a man. It's Normal
Just keep fit dancing and smiling, and you will be O.K.
Tony
paul ,
The prime importance of these endless hoaxes, smears, lies, fabrications and official
approved conspiracy theories, lies not so much in the events themselves as what it says about
the nature of the people who rule over us and their courtiers and handmaidens in the MSM.
It would take a whole forest of trees merely to catalogue all their lies over the years,
whether it's the Iraq Incubator Babies, the black Viagra fuelled rape gangs in Libya, the
Syrian Gas Hoaxes, 9/11, Iraq's WMD, Iran's non existent nuclear weapons, Skripal,
Russiagate, Ukrainegate, or the communist spy/ terrorist/ anti semitic smear campaign against
Corbyn. And that is only the tip of a very large iceberg. You could go back further to
Gladio, Operation Northwoods, Tonkin Gulf, the "Holocaust", Zinoviev Letter, Bayonetted
Belgian Babies, Raped Belgian Nuns, Human Bodies Made Into Soap. The list is endless.
We have been lied to consistently for years, decades, and generations. And these lies have
been peddled endlessly in the MSM, no matter how ludicrous and transparently false they are.
In the absence of direct personal knowledge or very convincing evidence to the contrary, you
just have to assume that everything we have ever been told, are being told, and will be told,
and most of the accepted historical record, are simply false. Nothing, nothing at all, can
ever be taken at face value.
And those who rule over us and who are responsible for these lies are psychopathic
subhuman filth devoid of any moral values or any redeeming features whatsoever. They are a
thousand times worse than the worst mass murderers or child killers who have ever been
through our courts. The Moors Murderers, the Ted Bundys, the Jeffrey Dahmers, were seriously
damaged individuals who killed a handful of victims. And they did their own dirty work. The
Blairs, the Campbells, the Straws, the Bushes, the Cheneys, the Rumsfelds, the Allbrights,
the Macrons, the Camerons, the Netanyahus, the Trumps, have the blood of millions on their
hands. They and their wire pullers are responsible for the death, starvation and misery of
tens and hundreds of millions.
So when Blair, or Johnson, or Trump or whoever is interviewed on television, you have to
remember that individual is a thousand times worse than the Moors Murderers, and we would
actually be that much better off if Brady or Hindley were ruling over us. They deserve no
respect or deference or legitimacy. They plot the murders of millions and the starvation of
tens of millions – and laugh and giggle as they do so. They should be simply recognised
for what they awe – psychopathic subhuman filth.
I do agree with you Paul and of course all you say is true. One of the main problems is that
these people have the power to build artificial constructs sufficient for the masses to
believe and perpetuated through their bought and paid for MSM whose journalists are mere foot
soldiers and wish only to get their pay checks. They have no reason to question the lies and
distortions pedaled to them by TPTB – they merely repeat the false narrative:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not
understanding it!" – Upton Sinclair
And we, the great 99%, have little power to change things except within our local network.
We can shout all we like on social media but it changes nothing until the great crisis
reoccurs and perhaps the masses will rise and demand a just and equitable system. Until that
day perhaps this little video will provide an understanding:
The business of the MSM throughout the ages has been to traumatise or at least just generally
worry the public with headlines focused on fear, envy, anger, revenge, and hate. Include all
five in your story and you're well on the way to a Pulitzer Prize, bestowed on the profession
by one of the great muckrakers of all time. It's not incidental that there have been a
disturbing number of winners that have turned out to be dissembling frauds. Add to this the
fact that 'journalism' training apparently does not teach entrants to distinguish the
difference between opinion and news, and the die is cast: propaganda as news.
Dungroanin ,
Here is what BellEndScat supporting Rusbridger is moaning about.
"For some years now – largely unreported – two chancery court judges have been
dealing with literally hundreds of cases of phone hacking against MGN Ltd and News Group, the
owners, respectively, of the Daily Mirror and the Sun (as well as the defunct News of the
World).
The two publishers are, between them, forking out eye-watering sums to avoid any cases going
to trial in open court. Because the newspaper industry lobbied so forcefully to scrap the
second part of the Leveson inquiry, which had been due to shine a light on such matters, we
can only surmise what is going on.
But there are clues. Mirror Group (now Reach) had by July 2018 set aside more than
£70m to settle phone-hacking claims without risking any of them getting to court. The
BBC reported last year that the Murdoch titles had paid out an astonishing £400m in
damages and calculated that the total bill for the two companies could eventually reach
£1bn."
"Because the newspaper industry lobbied so forcefully to scrap the second part of the
Leveson inquiry, which had been due to shine a light on such matters, we can only surmise
what is going on."
-- --
Completely ignoring that the Integrity Iniative infested Guardian ITSELF objected to the
recommendation of Levesons thoroughly public Inquiry and opposition to a independent press
regulator!
It would have been a building block and certainly stopped most of the continued press
misbehaviour over the last 5 years.
Neither Fish nor Fowl Mr Rusbridger. More sinner that saint, more like.
Hugh O'Neill ,
Going to the heart of what Bellingcat, MI6 and CIA is Pompeo's: "We lie, we cheat, we steal."
These evil filth are devoid of any moral code and have no respect whatsoever for the laws of
God or Man. At which point, consider Moses' (how apt) Ten Commandments. There among them is:
"Thou shalt not bear false witness". Think what you will of these Ten, but as a moral code,
they were quite useful.
Richard Le Sarc ,
Would that all these scum could share the fate of their progenitor, Streicher-without the '
necktie party'. Life at hard labour would do the lot of them much good.
Brianeg ,
I looked at the Veterans Today link and it all sounds very plausible'
However in today's world nothing makes sense especially when the questions arise.
Is it possible to change the signal of an aircrafts transponder remotely. Can the target
acquisition radar on the missile be spoofed remotely. Just why did the flight control officer
sanction the take off of this plane in the middle of a war unless they were party to the
whole thing.. Just what were the six Israeli F-35 jets doing flying close to the Iranian
border?
Okay there is a lot of smoke but just where is the fire.
Just as interesting is that none of the twelve Iranian missiles was intercepted and there
are rumours that the Iranians were able to take out of action American air defences.
I am sure that like with Douma when the majority of NATO missiles were intercepted by
missiles that were decades old, you wonder what might happen when most of the middle east is
covered by the S-300 and later versions.
This is a story that has got a long way to run and we might never hear the ending.
Dungroanin ,
Facts are inconvenient.
Many planes took off.
This one was delayed by the pilot 'to remove overloading'.
Reports of Cruise missiles heading in.
The thing about 'chips' is they could easily be identified by putting them in a black box
and watching what they do using a chip which only does that!
The whole bs about it's THEM not US crap falls away. Just need some open source simple
'custodian' chip manufacturer to make that available. If it can be made a 'gate keeper' than
we are all safe.
Mucho ,
"It sounds a bit MAGA. "
After this, I will never, ever read any of your comments ever again. Get lost!
Mucho ,
You talk so much crap. Please, keep it to yourself
Dungroanin ,
I ain't saying that is your opinion am I?
The bit I watched was him being gung-ho about getting back 'control of microprocessors'
!!!
There is a big difference between designing chips and 'manufacturing' facilities'.
Have you never wondered why most actual building of small electrical component equipment
takes place in Asia?
I don't care wherher you read my comments- i am free to post what I want on whatevet
article and whoevers comment. And stick to facts.
Mucho ,
"The bit I watched ".
Honestly, I am so tired of people who comment on things they know nothing about. Everything
you say is wrong, because you are speaking from a position of total ignorance, because you
haven't watched the films.
Watch 1 to 3. Watch 22 and 23 ALL THE WAY THROUGH, not skimming. Then comment. Every
inaccurate comment you make is covered in detail. Honestly it's no wonder we're so fucked.
From 2005 after one google search, time spent on this, 10 seconds:
"While Yona was developed in partnership with one of Intel's California centers, the 65nm
microprocessor product is the first to be developed in its entirety, both the architecture
and strategy, by Intel engineers at its Israel plants in Haifa and Yakum. " https://www.israel21c.org/intels-new-chip-design-developed-in-israel/
You know zilch, you understand nothing, you make assumptions, you don't watch or read the
material, and then in your total ignorance, you spew your feeble thoughts on this forum.
Moron
Mucho ,
You define the phrase "ignorant Brit"
Dungroanin ,
Mucho since you FAILED instantly in your promise to ignore me – i will respond to your
toy throwing out of the parambulator.
First just telling people to WATCH something without explaining what the salient point to
be learnt – is not the way to influence or educate.
I prefer reading an argument- I definitely do not spend hours watching TV or listening to
propaganda by msm / indy or 'shock jocks' – that last was the personality I saw and
didn't feel the need to hear anymore as I don't when Nigel Farage and his ilk do on the radio
here.
If you want to inform or prove something to me or anyone else kindly post a link to a
written piece.
Second, chips are designed eveywhere there is such competence. Chip manufacturing mainly
improved theough research in top universities.
The UK was a lead chip designer too.
None of that means the Israelis haven't monopolosed tech and own many patents. The fact is
the Israelis ARE part of the 5+1 eyed world Empire – they are the plus one. Snowdens
whistleblowing makes absolutely clear that the +1 gets a higher clearance than the +4.
That's as nice as I am prepared to be, so finally, that last paragraph is what is known as
PROJECTION. Look it up and learn that it comes from your fav bogeymen brainfuckers.
That is some serious self-hate you have going on – work on it.
Take it easy ok?
Mucho ,
Number 23 is totally relevant too, going deep into chips, backdooring and kill switch usage
Koba ,
So the mocking of maga is what set you off? Fuck maga and it's idiot supporters great nations
don't slaughter civilians for capital
chris morris is very funny has a fine body of twisted comedick works
for all his charm his role is too destroy society degrade
he is khazar after all
sacha baron co hen the names speaks for itself an empty cruel tool
never trust a coen cohen khan or cowen or co they cookoo
eliot mcfuck higgins is not oirish
he is not certainly related to snooker loopy or is it darts i cannot remember hero alex
higgins.
eliot"s dad is rita katz from site intel group amaq news
his mom barbera lerner spector
or is it vice versa
versa vice
whatever
shirley you
get my the friends of the oirish israel drift
so to speaks
or sum such
Mucho ,
Brilliant, insightful, logical hypothesis of the recent plane downing over Iran by Jeremy
Rothe Kushel. Ignore the video, this is about the written article.
For further info about Israeli tech domination, what it is, where it comes from and the
implications of this, go to Brendon O Connell's YT channel. Number 22 in his list is very
important.
Mucho ,
Jeremy Rothe-Kushel is a very important member of the truth community, in no small part due
to the fact that he is an Ashkenazi Jew. My personal belief is that in the end, the Jewish
community will play a pivotal role in weeding out the evil that rules over us. I wish we
didn't have these labels, that we could have true freedom to play our chosen role in our God
created realm, but at this stage in the game, we're stuck with our divide and rule labels and
systems of control.
Jeremy's style is to the point, he has great depth of knowledge, an encyclopedic knowledge of
his field and is a highly astute commentator. He presents a lot of complex information in
fairly easy to digest chunks with his co-host, Greg McCarron, on their show "The Antedote" on
YT, as well as doing a lot of guerilla style activism in US politics. Highly recommended.
norman wisdom ,
i met elliot many years ago
the chap on the 8 year old lap top above
we called him fat face down the synagogue ohh how we laughed
he laughed as well everytime someone said it
such fun
are rabbi one day organised a trip and lecture tour of chatham house the belly of the
beast.
we learnt all about how tough regime change was and how difficult it is to do on a bbc size
budget.
what we learnt was that having are people everywhere really helped
scripted up to speed influencer roles in media in public on track on page working cog
like.
a kind of khazar collective non semites only for security reasons of course.
we could work from a very low pound dollar and shekels base and still be very effective.
never under estimate the benjamins or elliots it is folks like this that are the real hero
of the oded yinon
yes sir
already my life
fat face eliot boy done good
and like all khazar he hates the sephardim jewisher and the unclean arab which is shirley
a bonus is it not
George Mc ,
First off, if folks haven't a clue who Harold Shipman is, you're not going to get far with
Titus Oats. At the most they might think it's a character from Gormenghast.
Second, I initially misread the article and thought that the figure from the 17th century
actually WAS Higgins of Bellingcat. And if that seems an absurd assumption to make, even
temporarily, it doesn't seem much more absurd than some of the stuff he says e.g.
I had no knowledge beyond what I'd learned from Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rambo.
The point has been raised that there are psyops perpetrated with a malicious sense of
humour as if to say, "These suckers will swallow anything". Higgins with his "education" from
Arnold and Rambo may be an example of one of those jokes.
Third, and to end on an optimistic note, I like the 17th century sentencing and recommend
we bring it back:
and he was whipped and placed in the pillory.
Dungroanin ,
Admin – a suggestion on keeping recent articles available from the top of the page.
Problem: As you add new aricles at top left the ones on the very right drop away! Almost
as if being binned into a memory hole.
Solution: allow a scroll at the right hand edge so that these older links are easily
available to readers. Only a minor coding change without any change to your front page.
Tallis Marsh ,
I concur! I'm sure many of us will appreciate a scroll on the right hand edge so we can
access the older articles. Thanks in advance, OffG!
Oliver ,
HM Armed Forces operations in Syria follow the doctrine of Major General Sir Frank Kitson who
learnt his stuff in Kenya in the 1950s. Murder, torture, rape the staples of the British
military's modern terrorist ability. NATO doctrine too.
This is an important article: one of the few that dares to express that Douma et al are not
mere false flags they a darkly psychotic form of 'snuff propaganda porn' (including the
recycling and rearanging of 'props' that were until recently animate human souls with a
lifetime of possibility abnegated for ideology). The Working Group on Syria is part of a
small counter-narrative subset – along with Sister Agnes Mariam, Vanessa Beeley, RT (on
occasion), UK Column, The Indicter, Prof. Marcello Ferrada de Noli – who are willing to
state plainly that this is child murder. Now I wholeheartedly commend Kevin that we should
name and shame the culprits and their supporters.
"No, I think it is time for plainer, no-holds-barred language describing these people
for the true evil they are – until the truth and label sticks."
I had a similar epiphany in early 2016. The barbaric of murder of starved and thirsty
children at Rashidin – Syrian innocence lured by much needed sweets and drinks only to
be blown apart in front of their mothers. Anyone who supports the White Helmets terrorist
construct and their NATO-proxy child-murderers needs to be exposed. But what if that trail of
exposure leads back to the leader of the Labour party: who had just personally endorsed the
charity funding of the White Helmets? And continued to support the Jo Cox Foundation of
Syrian humanitarian bombers and R2P interventionists? Which itself is a front for the dark
money web of 'philanthrocapitalism' that is the shadow support network for regime change
crimes against humanity. This is when righteous indignation meets the dark wall of silence
around the social construction of reality. Especially if you put Jeremy Corbyn in the
frame.
What this means is the ability to frame dark actors for the true evil they are has to be a
two-way flow. Meaning is created across networks, not just by naming but by naming and
agreeing across narrative communities. Again, this is not abstruse: it is social reality.
Social reality is not reality: it is a consensual constructivism. Significant numbers of
others have to be in a position of consensual agreement in order to challenge the dominant
narrative(s). So I echo the sentiment that many can see that the dominant narrative –
especially concerning Syria – is deeply flawed. But they are as yet unwilling to admit
that the depth of the flaw is in fact a tear in social reality that cannot be easily
healed.
This is the aspect of social reality called 'universe maintenance'. Doxa is the reality
constructing belief set – the episteme of interacting beliefs. The narrative has two
main aspects: ortho-doxa and hetero-doxa – the orthodox maintaining and heterodox
subverting discourses. In order to truly subvert the hegemonic orthodoxy – there has to
be a social moment of criticality when the heterodox is no longer deniable. To reach that
point: the intrajecting true has to be believable to the hegemonic orthodoxy. Now we have a
third mode: para-doxa when the true 'state of affairs' is not believable – it is easily
rejected as paradoxical to the reigning consensus covenant of the true. This is universe
maintaining: whereby the the totality of the dominant discourse actually subsumes or repels
any paradox as a half-truth or ameliorated, disarmed less-than-true ('conspiracy theory').
This is known as 'recuperation'. Anything that meets the dominant discourse has to be
explained in the terms of the dominant discourse accommodative and recommending itself to the
dominant discourse. Which then becomes a part of the dominant universe of discourse.
A moment of the true is like a barb to a bubble. It has to be contained and wrapped in
narrative that describes and explains it into a consumable form. The full realisation of the
propagandic child murder in Syria – tacitly supported by the Labour Party and Jeremy
Corbyn in particular – would destroy the symbolic universe of social reality. Of which
it is my personal experience no one really wants to do. The correlations, direct and indirect
links, and universally maintained orthodoxy of narrative discourse point to an accomodation.
An explanation or multivariate set of explanations that problem shift and ascribe blame to
imaginary actors. To deflect or defend the personal self. Because the personal self is
independently situated outside the social sphere. Or is it?
Seeing the real event as it happens requires the perspicacity of social inclusion. We all
create social reality together: with our without layers of dualising exclusion that protects
us from the way the world really is. Who would vote to legitimise the supporters of NATO and
the child-murderers of Syria? 31 million legitimising independent social actors just did. Do
you suppose they did so in full knowledge that it is child-murder they were supporting? Or
did they create universe maintaining accommodations to the truth? That is how powerful the
screening discourses and legitimising orthodoxic narrative mythology is. It is not that it
cannot be subverted: its just that calling out the true evil has to be heard in unison by
large or social small assemblages willing to totally change everything – including
themselves. In order to transition to a different social reality one that accommodates the
truth. One which will look nothing like the social reality we choose to maintain as is.
Francis Lee ,
My first attempt didn't get through. Herewith second.
It seems to me that the internal affairs of the Russian Federation, although they may have
some impact on external geopolitical issues, are a matter for them. At the present time the
relevant question regarding the RF is as follows: Question 1. Is Russia a revionist state
intent on an expansionist foreign policy? Answer NO. But it is not going to tolerate NATO
expansion into its own strategic zones, namely, Ukraine, Georgia and the North Caucusas.
Question 2. Is the Anglo-Zionist empire in open of pursuit of a world empire intent on
destroying any sovereign state – including first and foremost Russia – which
stands in its way? Answer YES. This really is so blatant that anyone who is ethnically
challenged should seek psychiatric help. In Polls conducted around the world the US is always
cited as the most dangerous enemy of world peace, including in the US itself. Thus a small
influential (unfortunately deranged) cabal based in the west has insinuated its way into the
institutions of power and poses a real and present danger to world peace.
This being the case it is imperative to push all and any 'normal' western governments and
shape public opinion and discourse (except the nut-jobs like Poland and the Baltics) into
diplomacy. Wind down NATO just as the Warsaw Pact was wound down. that will do for starters.
Of course the PTB in all the western institutions – the media (whores) the deep state,
the Atlantic Council, the Council on Foreign Relations, Chatham House the Arms merchants, the
security services GCHQ, the CIA, Mossad and the rest will oppose this with all the power at
their command. This is the present primary site of struggle, mainly propagandistic, cultural
and economic, but with overtones of kinetic warfare.
Similar diplomatic initiatives must be directed at China. Yes, I know all about China's
social credit policy, I don't particularly like the idea of 24 hour system of surveillance,
and I wouldn't want to live there, but is already a virtual fait accompli in the west. Again
it bears repeating that sovereign states should be left to their own devices. After all
'States have neither permanent friends of allies, only permanent interests. (Lord Palmerston,
19 century British Statesman). No more 'humanitarian interventions' thank you very much. How
about Mind our own Business non-interventions.
I make no apologies for being a foreign policy realist – if that hasn't become
apparent by this stage!
BigB ,
Francis:
The Russian Federation is involved is strategic partnership with China in consolidating
the Eurasian 'supercontinent' into the world island. One which is slowly being drawn together
into a massive market covering 70% of the world's population, 75% of energy resources, and
70% of GDP. I'd call that expansionist, wouldn't you?
Market mechanisms and methodology are exponentially expansionist, extractivist, and
extrapolative. Market propaganda is free and equal exchange coupled with mutual development
through comparative advantage. Everyone benefits, right?
No: markets operate as vast surplus value extractors that only operate unequally to
deliver maximum competitive advantage to the suprasovereign core. Surplus value valorises
surplus capital which cannot be contained in a single domestic market: so it seeks to exploit
underdeveloped foreign markets setting up dependencies and peripheries in the satellite
states. Which keeps them maldeveloped. In short: Russia and China's wealth is not just their
own.
Russia and China are globalisation now. Globalist exponential expansionism, extractivism,
and extrapolation is the repression of humanism and destruction of the biosphere. It can't
stop growing in the cancer stage of hyper-capitalism. We are currently consuming every
resource at a material throughput increase of 3% per annum year on year. That's a 23 year
exponential doubling of material resources. And a 46 year doubling of the doubling. How long
before globalisation uses everything? How far into the race to the bottom will the market
collapse?
It would be really nice to return to a Westphalian System of non-expansionist,
non-extractivist sovereign nation states. It is just not even plausible under market
mechanisms of extraction. There can be no material decoupling and development remains
contingent on an impossible infinity: because development remains parallel and assymetrically
maintained. And all major resources are depleting exponentially too. Including the nominative
renewable and sustainable ones.
Degrowth; self-sufficiency; localised 'anti-fragility', steady-state; asymmetric
development of the marginalised and the peripheralised; regenerative agroecological
agriculture; human development not abstract market development; are just some of the
pre-requisites of a return to sovereign states. Russia 'sovereigntist' globalisation is the
expansionist opposite to that. The RF is part of the biggest market in the world that hoovers
up as much surplus value as it can before sending a large tranche of it to London. As much as
$25bn a year in capital flight into the offshore nexus of secrecy jurisdictions. It's a
globalist expansionist market mechanism that hoovers all vitality out of the life-ground.
That: I call expansionist and imperialist of which Russia and China are now the major
part.
Francis Lee ,
"The Russian Federation is involved is strategic partnership with China in consolidating the
Eurasian 'supercontinent' into the world island. One which is slowly being drawn together
into a massive market covering 70% of the world's population, 75% of energy resources, and
70% of GDP. I'd call that expansionist, wouldn't you?"
No, I wouldn't actually. Building roads, rail connections and other trade routes doesn't
strike me as imperial expansion. No-one is being forced to join the Shanghai Cooperation
Organization (SCO) or into reconfiguring their internal political and economic structures, as
the US does in Latin America or as the British did in India and Southern Africa. (East India
Company and the British British South Africa Chartered Company). The SCO is a voluntary
arrangement. Uzbekistan for example has decided not to join the central Asian Eurasian
Economic Union – well that's its prerogative. No-one is going to send any gun-boats to
force them. (I am aware that Uzbekistan is a landlocked country, but I was talking
figuratively.)
The EEU's genesis has along with the SCO and BRI has been forced upon the China/Russia
axis as part of an emerging counter-hegemonic alliance against the US's imperial
aggrandisement with its kowtowing vassals in tow. Russia has no claims on any of its
neighbours since it is already endowed with ample land and mineral deposits. China is a key
part of this essentially geopolitical bloc quite simply because the US imperial hegemon is
determined to stop China's development by all means necessary including the dragooning of
contiguous military bases in US proxy states around China's maritime borders.
A distinction should be made between rampant imperialism of the Anglo-zi0nist empire, and
the response of an increasingly bloc of states who find both their sovereignty and even their
existence threatened by the imperial juggernaut. What exactly did you expect them to do given
the hostility and destructive intent of the Empire? Defence against imperialism is not
imperialism. The defence of autonomy and sovereignty of international society and the
creation of an anti-hegemonic have the potential to finally create a transformative new world
order (and goodness knows we need one) announced at the end of the Cold War in 1991. This
ambition finds support not only in Russia and China but in other countries ready to align
with them, but also in many western countries. I obviously need to put the question again.
Who is and who is not the greatest threat to world peace? Surely to pose the question is to
answer it.
Dungroanin ,
Agree Francis.
There is a move to suggest that the Old Empire retains a 'maritime' world and the SCO
confines itself to the Eurasian land mass.
Dream on.
The Empire is DEAD. Long live the new Empire!
BigB ,
Who is the greatest threat to world peace and to the world itself? We are. The global carbon
consumption/pollution bourgeoisie. It is the global expansionist mindset that is increasing
its demands for growth – as the only solution to social problems, maldevelopment, and
maldistribution caused by excessive growth. Supply has to be met by exponentially expanding
markets. Whether this is voluntaristic or coerced makes very little difference to the market
cancer subsuming the globe. Benign or aggressive forms of cancer are still cancer. And the
net effect is the same.
Russia and China – the 'East' – uphold exactly the same corporate model of
global governance that the 'West' does. Which has been made clear in every joint communique
– especially BRICS communiques. I have made the case – following Professor
Patrick Bond – that BRICS in particular (a literal Goldman Sachs globalist marketing
ploy) – are sub-imperial, not anti-imperial. All their major institutions are dollar
denominated for loans; BRI finance is in dollars; BRICS re-capitalised the IMF; Contingency
Reserve Arrangements come with an IMF neoliberalising structural adjustment policy; etc. It
is the same model East and West. One is merely the pseudo-benign extension of the other. The
alternative to neoliberal globalisation is neoliberal globalisation. This became radiantly
clear at SPIEF 2019: TINA there is no alternative.
The perceived alternative is the reproduction of neoliberalism – which has long been
think-tanked and obvious – and its transformation from 'globalisation 3.0' to
'globalisation 4.0' trade in goods and services, with the emphasis on a transition to
high-speed interconnectivity and decoupled service economies. Something like the
Trans-Eurasian Information Super Highway (TASIM)? With a sovereigntist and social inclusivity
compact. So the neoliberal leopard can change its spots?
No. Whilst your argument is sound and well constructed: it is reliant on the early 20th
century Leninist definition of 'imperialism' as a purely militarist phenomena. Imperialism
mutated since then – from military to financial (which are not necessarily exclusive
sets) – and is set to metastasise again into 'green imperialism' of man over man (and
it is an andrarchic principle) and man (culture) over nature. Here your argument falls down
to an ecological and bio-materialist critique. Cancer is extractivist and expansionist
wherever it grows.
Russia is the fourth largest primary energy consumer on the planet. Disregarding hydro
– which is not truly ecological – it has a 1% renewable penetration. It is a
hydrocarbon behemoth set to grow the only way it knows how – consuming more
hydrocarbons. They cannot go 'green': no one can. And a with a global ecological footprint of
3.3 planets per capita, per annum, this is not sustainable. Now or ever.
So a distinction needs to be made between the old rampant neoliberal globalisation model
(3.0) – the Anglo-Zionist imperialist model – and the emergent neoliberal
globalisation model (4.0) of Russia/China's rampant ecological imperialism? And a further
distinction needs to be made about what humanity has to do to survive this distinction
between aggressive and quasi-benign cancer forms. Because we will be just as dead, just as
quick if we cannot even identify the underlying cancer we are all suffering from.
Koba ,
Big B sit down ultra! China and Russia rent empires and have no desire to be! If you're a
left winger you're another poor example of one and more than likely a Trotskyist
Richard Le Sarc ,
Love the nickname, Josef.
Louis Proyect ,
This is because if a chemical attack did not take place and Assad was not responsible it
seems highly likely that the civilians including children were murdered to facilitate a
fabrication.
And were our own intelligence agencies involved in a staged event, considering the refusal
to even establish the basic facts in the days following?
-- -
This is the sort of conclusion you must come to if you are into Islamophobic conspiracy
theories. The notion that this kind of slaughter took place to "facilitate" a false flag is
analogous to the 9/11 conspiracism that was on display here a while back and that manifested
itself through the inclusion of NYU 9/11 Truther Mark Crispin Miller on Tim Hayward's
Assadist propaganda team.
Sad, really.
Harry Stotle ,
Go on Louis, remind us about the 'terrorist passport' miraculously found at the foot of the
collapsed tower with a page coveniently left open displaying a 'Tora Bora' stamp – I
kove that bit.
I mean who, apart from half the worlds scientific community is not totally convinced by
such compelling evidence, especially when allied to the re-writing of the laws of physics in
order to rationlise the ludicrous 2 planes 3 towers conspiracy theory?
Next you'll be telling us it was necessary for the US to invade Afghanistan and Iraq for
reasons few American'srecall beyond the neocon fantasy contructed on 11th Septemember,
2001.
Dave Hansell ,
It's clear to a blind man on a galloping horse from this comment of yours Mr Proyect that
concepts such as objective evidence, logical and rational deduction, the scientific method
etc are beyond your ken.
Faced with the facts of a collapsing narrative of obvious bullshit and lies you have
bought into, which you are incapable of facing up to, it is unsurprising that you are reduced
to such puerile school playground level deflections.
So come on, try getting out of the gutter and upping your game. Because this fare is
nothing short of sad and pathetic.
We know from the evidence of those who actually know their arse from their elbow on these
matters that the claims of an attack using chemical weapons on this site are
unsustainable.
Which leaves the issue of the bodies at the site. Given they did not lose their lives as a
result of the unscientific bullshit explanation you desperately and clearly want to be the
case the question is how did those civilians lose their lives? How did their corpses find
their way to that location?
Did Assad and his "regime" murder them and move the bodies to that site (over which they
had no control) in order to create a false flag event to get themselves falsely accused of an
NBC attack Louis? Because that's the only reasonable and rational deduction one can imply
from your argument and approach.
It is certainly more reasoned, rational and in keeping with the scientific method (you
might want to try it sometime) to surmise that the bodies on site, having not been the result
of the claimed and unsustainable narrative you have naively committed to, either died on site
from some other cause or were brought to the site for the purpose of creating your fantasy
narrative.
In the latter case it is further a matter of rational and reasoned deduction that such an
occurrence could only be carried it in circumstances in which whoever carried it out had
actual, effective and physical control of a geographical location and area situated within a
wider conflict zone.
Again, it remains a piece of factual reality that this location was not under the control
of the Assad 'regime.' Not least because otherwise there would be no logical or rational
military reason for the de facto Syrian Government and it's armed forces to waste resources
attacking it.
Unless of course he buys I to the conspiracy theory and hat they somehow organised a false
flag implicating themselves?
I'm sure everyone else here in the reality based community is waiting with bated breath
for you to 'explain' how they did this Louis.
I know I am. I could do with a good laugh.
George Mc ,
This is the sort of conclusion you must come to if you are into Islamophobic conspiracy
theories.
Umm – the assumption that Muslims DIDN'T do it is "Islamophobic"? Even on your own
terms you're not making much sense these days, Louis.
Hi I'm Louis an unrepentant Marxist and I willfully refuse to use block-quotes.
Richard Le Sarc ,
More proyectile vomitus in defence of child-murdering salafist vermin. How low can this
creature descend?
Louis Proyect ,
Richard, such abusive language only indicates your inability to discuss the matter at hand.
In general, a detached sarcasm works much better in polemics. You need to read Lenin to see
how it is done. I should add that I am referring to V.I. Lenin, not John Lenin who wrote
"Crippled Inside".
Richard Le Sarc ,
You defended the salafist butchers with lies, proyectile-do you not even comprehend your own
sewage? Or did someone else write it and you just appended your paw-print?
Dave Hansell ,
Apologies here. There is an open goal and the ball needs to be put in the back of the net:
Seems that Louis here is well ahead of the curve in terms of Fukuyama's well known
observation about the end of history.
For Louise history, in terms of the progress and development of human knowledge, stopped
around a century ago with whatever Lenin wrote.
But that's what happens to those who only read one book.
Sad really.
Dungroanin ,
You come across more as Yaxley – Lenin mr Tommy Proyect – but he is a MI5 stooge
unlike you cough cough.
Koba ,
Lenin hates Trotsky! Trotsky was a power mad maniac who wanted a permanent war state to
somehow spread his specific brand of "ahem" socialism, which won't win you friends! "Hi yeah
sorry we killed your family in a war we started to save you but yippee Trotsky is now in
charge so stop complaining"! You're just a bunch of liars the trots
Maggie ,
learn to use the internet which has the information you need to learn the truth:
Maggie don't take jimmy bore as some truth teller he's a bland progressive with revolutionary
slogans like proyect! He also has a habit of equating Stalin with Hitler in that god awful
nasal accent of his
Richard Le Sarc ,
Thems White Helmets is always so neat and tidy. Their mammies must have insisted that they
always look their best.
paul ,
The British taxpayer funded head choppers and throat slitters in Syria routinely committed
massacres and filmed their victims. The resulting footage was passed off by tame media hacks
as "evidence" of regime atrocities.
Koba ,
Death to the Trotskyists
Fuck proyect your name calling says it all!
Islamophobes indeed?! What an idiot
Harry Stotle ,
The alternative media, and a smattering of truth tellers are locked in an asymmetrical
information-war with the establishment – with an all too obvious 'David & Goliath'
sort of dynamic underlying it.
The question asked at the heart of this article is how to break the vice like grip
information managers hold over various geopolitical narratives, referencing events in Douma
in particular.
Alnost reflexively 9/11 comes to mind – a fairly unambiguous example of mass murder
for which the official account does not withstand even the most cursory form of scrutiny.
Professionals even went so far as to purger themselves while the investigating committee
admitted they were 'set up to fail' (to quote its chairman).
Yet the public, instead of shredding Bush, limb from limb (for the lies that were told)
rolled onto their back while the neoncons tickled their collective belly as you might do with
a particulalrly adorable puppy,
So if we can't even get to the bottom of events in the middle of New York what realistic
chance of doing so in a hostile war zone like Douma?
On balance racism, together with other forms of collective loathing is the most likely
reason why this unsatisfactory state of affairs is unlikely to change.
A collective 'them and us' mindset makes it far easier for information managers to
manipulate a visceral hatred and fear of 'the other'.
Today it is Qasem Soleimani westerners are taugyt to despise, yesterday it was Bashar
al-Assad, before that Vladimir Putin, Saddam Hussein, Muammar al-Gaddafi, Nicolás
Maduro . the list just goes on and on.
Information managers simply wind the public up so that collective anger can be directed
toward governments or individuals they are trying to bring down – recent history tells
us that the public are largely oblivious to this process, so thus never learn from their
mistakes.
Perhaps one thing western leaders, and the US in particular can always rely on, is the
ease with which the public can be persuaded to believe that certain bogeymen pose a grave
threat to 'our way of life' while failing to notice that it is in fact our own leaders who
are carrying out the worst atrocities.
harry law ,
Harry Stotle, .."Perhaps one thing western leaders, and the US in particular can always rely
on, is the ease with which the public can be persuaded to believe that certain bogeymen pose
a grave threat to 'our way of life'. That's true Hermann Goring had it about right with this
quote
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk
his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one
piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for
that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who
determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is
a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no
voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
@JimDandy Hpw did the instruction to "Fly direct" prove fatal to MH 17
MUMBAI: The ministry of civil aviation's claim that there was no Air India flight near the
ill-fated Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 when it was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday appears
misleading.
An Air India Dreamliner flight going from Delhi to Birmingham was in fact less than 25km away
from the Malaysian aircraft,
Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots had also heard the
controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called "a direct routing". This permits
an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a
zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another. "Direct
routing saves fuel and time and is preferred by pilots. In this case, it proved fatal," said
an airline source.
1 Was India pressurized to deny the close proximity and 2 was it under pressure to deny
that it heard the controller giving the instruction to MH 17????
"... The infrastructure they inherited from the USSR mostly is now fully amortized. For example railway park in in complete ruin. Central heating pipeline communications in cities like Kiev are in ruins too. In the USSR they tried to reuse the heat from electric stations and have elaborate hot water delivery networks from each, which provided heat to a large city blocks. Now pipes are completely rusted (which in 30 years is no surprise) and are in the state of constant repair. ..."
"... But when the standard of living dropped to such extent as it dropped after 2014 sentiments toward even slightly different ethnic groups turn hostile too. This is the case in Ukraine. In this sense you are wrong. There is no more unity now then existed before 2014. I would say there is less unity now. ..."
"... Sentiments turned against both Donbass dwellers and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine. In Kiev the derogatory term for both categories is "ponaekhali" ("come to overcrowd the place and displace us", or something along those lines; it's difficult to translate, but the term carries strong derogatory meaning) ..."
"... The nationalistic hysteria of 2014-2017 now mostly changed into deep depression: how a tiny group of far right nationalist and football hooligan gangs managed to get to power against the will of the majority of the country and destroy its economy. That's why Zelensky was elected and most far right parliamentarians lost their seats. Most of Western Ukraine voted for him, which is telling you something. ..."
"... The problem for Ukraine is that with the cut of economic ties with Russia the natural path for economics is probably down. De-industrialization, Baltic style, is raining supreme. Many enterprises survived the period from 1991 to 2014 only due to orders from Russia. Especially remnants of military industrial complex and manufacturing industry. Now what? Selling land (like Zelensky is trying to do) ? ..."
I feel like robber barons in Kyiv have harmed you more through their looting of the country than impoverished Eastern Ukrainians,
who were the biggest losers in the post-Soviet deindustrilization, have harmed you by existing and dying of diseases of poverty
and despair.
It reminds me of how coastal shit-libs in America talk about "fly-over" country and want all the poor whites in Appalachia
to die. I'm living in a country whose soul is totally poisoned. A country that is dying. While all this is happening, whites have
split themselves into little factions focused on political point scoring.
I doubt people like Zelensky, Kolomoisky, Poroshenko and all the rest are going to turn Ukraine into an earthly paradise. They're
more likely to be Neros playing harps, while Ukraine burns.
Looks like your understanding of Ukraine is mostly based of a short trip to Lvov and reading neoliberal MSM and forums. That's
not enough, unless you want to be the next Max Boot.
Ukraine is a deeply sick patient, which surprisingly still stands despite all hardships (Ukrainians demonstrated amazing, superhuman
resilience in the crisis that hit them, which greatly surprised all experts).
The infrastructure they inherited from the USSR mostly is now fully amortized. For example railway park in in complete ruin. Central
heating pipeline communications in cities like Kiev are in ruins too. In the USSR they tried to reuse the heat from electric stations
and have elaborate hot water delivery networks from each, which provided heat to a large city blocks. Now pipes are completely rusted
(which in 30 years is no surprise) and are in the state of constant repair.
And, what is really tragic Ukraine now it is a debt state. Usually the latter is the capital sentence for the county. Few managed
to escape even in more favorable conditions (South Korea is one.) So chances of economic recovery are slim: with such level of parasitic
rent to the West the natural path is down and down. Don't cry for me Argentina.
And there is no money to replace already destroyed due to bad maintenance infrastructure, but surprisingly large parts of Soviets
era infrastructure still somehow hold. For example, electrical networks, subway cars. But other part are already crumbling.
For example, in Kiev that means in some buildings you have winter without central heating, you have elevators in 16-storey buildings
that work one or two weeks in month, you have no hot water, sometimes you have no water at all for a week or more, etc). Pensioners
have problem with paying heating bills, so some of them are forced to live in non-heated apartments.
And that's in Kiev/Kyiv (Western Ukrainians love to change established names, much like communists) . In provincial cities it
is a real horror show when even electricity supply became a problem. The countryside dwellers at least has its own food, but the
situation for them is also very very difficult.
Other big problem -- few jobs and almost no well paid job, unless you are young, know English and have a university education
(and are lucky). Before 2014 approximately 70% of Ukrainian labor migrants (in total a couple of million) came from the western part
of the country, in which migration had become a widespread method of coping with poverty, the absence of jobs and low salaries.
Now this practice spread to the whole county. That destroyed many families.
The USA plays its usual games selling vassals crap at inflated prices (arms, uranium rods, coal, locomotives, cars, etc) , which
Ukrainians can't refuse. Trump is simply a typical gangster in this respect, running a protection racket.
The rate of emigration and shrinking population is another fundamental problem. Mass emigration (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine
) is continuing even after Zelensky election. Looting by the West also continues unabated. This is disaster capitalism in action.
Add to those problems inflated military expenses to fight the civil war in Donbass which deprives other sectors of necessary funds
(with the main affect of completely alienating Russia) and "Huston, we have a problem."
May be this is a natural path for xUSSR countries after the dissolution of the USSR, I don't know.
But the destiny of ordinary Ukrainians is deeply tragic: they wanted better life and got a really harsh one. Especially pensioners
(typical pension is something like $60-$70) a month in Kiev, much less outside of Kiev. How they physically survive I do not fully
understand.
There are still pro-Russian areas but being free of Crimea and Donbass means Ukraine can no longer be characterized as "split."
I agree that there is a substantial growth of anti-Russian sentiments. It is really noticeable. As well as growth of the usage
of the Ukrainian language (previously Kiev, unlike Lvov was completely Russian-language city).
And in Western Ukraine Russiphobia was actually always a part of "national identity". The negative definition of national identity,
if you wish. See popular slogan "Hto ne skache toi moskal" ("those who do not jump are Moskal" -- where Moskal is the derogatory
name for a Russian). Here is this slogan in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6rfqr9afMc
;-)
But when the standard of living dropped to such extent as it dropped after 2014 sentiments toward even slightly different
ethnic groups turn hostile too. This is the case in Ukraine. In this sense you are wrong. There is no more unity now then existed
before 2014. I would say there is less unity now.
Sentiments turned against both Donbass dwellers and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine. In Kiev the derogatory term for both
categories is "ponaekhali" ("come to overcrowd the place and displace us", or something along those lines; it's difficult to translate,
but the term carries strong derogatory meaning) .
"Donetskie" (former Donbass dwellers, often displaced by the war) are generally strongly resented and luxury cars, villas, etc
and other excesses of neoliberal elite are attributed mostly to them (Donbass neoliberal elite did moved to Kiev, not Moscow)
, while "zapadentsi" are also, albeit less strongly, resented because they often use clan politics within institutions, and often
do not put enough effort (or are outright incompetent), as they rely on its own clan ties for survival.
This sentiment is stronger to the south of Kiev where the resentment is directed mainly against Western Ukrainians, not against
"Donetskie" like in Kiev. And I am talking not only about Odessa. Western Ukrainians are now strongly associated with corrupt ways
of getting lucrative positions (via family, clan or political connections), being incompetent and doing nothing useful.
What surprise me is that this resentment against "zapadentsi" and "Poloshenko clan" is shared by many people from Western Ukraine.
The target is often slightly more narrow, for example Hutsuls in Lviv (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls )
The nationalistic hysteria of 2014-2017 now mostly changed into deep depression: how a tiny group of far right nationalist
and football hooligan gangs managed to get to power against the will of the majority of the country and destroy its economy. That's
why Zelensky was elected and most far right parliamentarians lost their seats. Most of Western Ukraine voted for him, which is telling
you something.
The problem for Ukraine is that with the cut of economic ties with Russia the natural path for economics is probably down.
De-industrialization, Baltic style, is raining supreme. Many enterprises survived the period from 1991 to 2014 only due to orders
from Russia. Especially remnants of military industrial complex and manufacturing industry. Now what? Selling land (like Zelensky
is trying to do) ?
Ukraine will probably eventually lose a large part of its chemical industry because without subsidies for gas it just can't complete
even taking into account low labor costs. And manufacturing because without Russian market it is difficult to find a place for their
production in already established markets, competing only in price and suffering in quality (I remember something about Iraq returning
Ukrainians all ordered armored carriers due to defect is the the armor
https://sputniknews.com/military/201705221053859853-armored-vehicles-defects-extent
/). Although at least for the Ukrainian arm industry there is place on the market in countries which are used to old Soviet armaments,
because those are rehashed Soviet products.
Add to this corrupt and greedy diaspora (all those Jaresko, Chalupas, Freelands, Vindmans, etc ) from the USA and Canada (and
not only diaspora -- look at Biden, Kerry, etc) who want their piece of the pie after 2014 "Revolution of dignity" (what a sad joke)
and you will see the problems more clearly. Not that much changed from the period 1991-2014 where Ukraine was also royally fleeced
by own oligarchs allied with Western banksers, simply now this leads to quicker deterioration of the standard of living.
None of Eastern European countries benefited from a color revolution staged by the USA. This is about opening the country not
only to multinationals (while they loot the county they at least behave within a certain legal bounds, demonstrating at least decency
of gangsters like in Godfather), but to petty foreign criminals from diaspora and outside of it who allies with the local oligarchs
and smallernouveau riche and are siphoning all the county wealth to western banks as soon as possible. Greed of the disapora is simply unbounded.
https://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/08/26/the-ukrainian-diaspora-as-a-recipient-of-oligarchic-cash/
Of course, Ukrainian diaspora is not uniform. Still, outside well-know types from the tiny Mid-Eastern country, the most dangerous
people for Ukraine are probably Ukrainians from diaspora with dual citizenship
"... What no one is mentioning is: the US airstrikes on Iraqi military bases, and Soleimani's murder contributed greatly to the hair trigger response of Iran's air defense forces. If Washington did not turn the heat up on both Iraq and Iran there would have been no need for Iran's retaliation, and thus the level of Iran's domestic defense forces would not have been so nervous as to pull the trigger downing the airliner. ..."
"... Former CIA high-ranking official accidentally reveals the type of the false flag operation that the US imperialists will orchestrate to start a war with Iran https://failedevolution.blogspot.com/2020/01/former-cia-high-ranking-official.html ..."
"... It reminds me too much of MH-17, which was not hit with a BUK but with bullets. Iran should have closed its airspace because such tricks are to be expected, irrespective of the cause of the current accident. ..."
When the Pentagon confirmed the assassination of Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani, U.S.
President Donald Trump took to social media to post a single image of the American flag to the
adulation of his followers. Unfortunately, most Americans are ignorant of the other flag
synonymous with U.S. foreign policy, that of the 'false flag' utilized to deceive the public
and stir up support for endless war abroad. While the chicken hawk defenders of Trump's
reckless decision to murder one of the biggest contributors in the defeat of ISIS salivated
over possible war with Iran, their appetite was spoiled by Tehran's retaliatory precision
strikes of two U.S. bases in Iraq that deliberately avoided casualties while in accordance with
the Islamic Republic's right to self defense under Article 51 of the United Nations charter.
The reprisal successfully deescalated the crisis but sent a clear message Iran was willing to
stand up to the U.S. with the backing of Russia and China, while Washington underestimated
Tehran which forewarned the Iraqi government of its impending counterattack so U.S. personnel
could evacuate.
In the hours following the ballistic missile strikes, reports came in that a Boeing 737
international passenger flight scheduled from Tehran to Kiev, Ukraine had crashed shortly after
takeoff from Imam Khomeini International Airport, killing all 176 passengers and flight crew on
board. Initial video of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 (PS752) showed
that the aircraft was already in flames while descending to the ground, leading to speculation
it was shot down amid the heightened political crisis between Iran and Washington. In the days
following, a second obscure video surfaced which only increased this suspicion. Meanwhile,
Western governments quickly concluded that an anti-aircraft surface-to-air missile brought
PS752 down and were eager to point the finger at Iran before any formal investigation. Many
people, including this author, were admittedly skeptical as to how a plane taking off from
Tehran could have been mistaken five hours after the strikes in Iraq.
Nevertheless, those with reservations turned out to be wrong when days later the Islamic
Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) came clean that its aerospace forces made a "human error" and
accidentally shot the passenger plane down after mistaking it for a incoming cruise missile
when it flew close to a military base during a heightened state of alert in anticipation of
U.S. attack. Many have noted that Iran's honorable decision to take responsibility for the
catastrophe is in sharp contrast with Washington's response in 1988 when the U.S. Navy shot
down Iran Air Flight 655 scheduled from Tehran to Dubai over the Strait of Hormuz in the
Persian Gulf, killing all 290 occupants, after failing to cover it up. Just a month later, Vice
President George H.W. Bush would notoriously state he would " never apologize for the United
States of America. Ever. I don't care what the facts are ." Although he was not directly
referring to the incident, one can only imagine what the reaction would be if Iranian President
Hassan Rouhani were to say the same weeks after shooting down the Ukrainian plane, let alone an
American one. Predictably, Tehran's transparency has gone mostly unappreciated while the Trump
administration is already trying to use the disaster to further demonize Iran.
Oddly enough, Ukrainian International Airlines is partly owned by the infamous
Ukrainian-Israeli oligarch, politician and energy tycoon Igor Kolomoisky, who was notably one
of the biggest financiers of the anti-Russian, pro-EU coup d'etat which overthrew the
democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Kolomoisky is also a principal
backer of current Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky whose dubious phone call with Trump
resulted in the 45th U.S. president's impeachment last month. In another astounding
coincidence, Kolomoisky's Privat Group is believed to control Burisma Holdings, the
Cypress-based company whose executive board 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden's son Hunter
was appointed to following the Maidan junta. The former Vice President admitted that he bribed
Ukraine into firing its top prosecutor who was looking into his son's corruption by threatening
to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees.
Kolomoisky, AKA "the Chameleon", is one of the wealthiest people in the ex-Soviet country
and was formerly appointed as governor of an administrative region bordering Donbass in eastern
Ukraine following the 2014 putsch. He has also funded a battalion of volunteer neo-Nazi
mercenaries fighting alongside the Ukrainian army in the War in Donbass against
Russian-speaking separatists which the military aid temporarily withheld by the Trump
administration that was disputably contingent upon an investigation of Biden and his son goes
to. In 2014, another infamous plane shootdown made international headlines when Malaysian
Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) scheduled from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down over the
breakaway Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) in eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and
crew.
From the get-go, the Obama administration was adamant that the missile which shot down the
Boeing 777 came from separatist rebel territory. However, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir bin
Mohamad denounced the charges brought against the Russian and Ukrainian nationals indicted in
the NATO-led investigation, dismissing the entire probe as a politically motivated effort
predetermined to scapegoat Moscow and exclude Malaysian participation in the inquiry from the
very beginning. Mohamad is featured in the excellent documentaryMH17: Call for Justice
made by a team of independent journalists which contests the NATO-scripted narrative and
reveals that the Buk missile was more likely launched from Ukrainian Army-controlled territory
than the DPR. One of Kolomoisky's hired guns could also have been responsible.
Shamefully, Iran's admission of guilt in the PS752 downing is already being used by
establishment propagandists to discredit skeptics and conflated with similar contested past
events like MH17 in order to intimidate dissenting voices from speaking up in the future. The
Bellingcat 'investigative journalism' collective which made its name incriminating Moscow for
the MH17 tragedy are the principle offenders. Bellingcat bills itself as an 'independent'
citizen journalism group even though its founder Eliot Higgins is employed by the Atlantic
Council think tank which receives funding from NATO, the U.S. State Department, the National
Endowment for Democracy (NED), George Soros' Open Society Foundation NGO, and numerous other
regime change factories. Despite its enormous conflict of interest, Bellingcat remains highly
cited by corporate media as a supposedly reputable source. At the outset, nearly everything
about the PS752 tragedy gave one déjà vu of the MH17 disaster, including the rush
to judgement by Western governments, so it was only natural for many to distrust the official
narrative until more facts came out.
None of this changes that the use of commercial passenger jets as false flag targets for
U.S. national security subterfuge is a verifiable historical fact, not a 'conspiracy theory.'
In 1997, the U.S. National Archives declassified a 1962 memo proposed by the Joint
Chiefs of Staff and Department of Defense for then-Secretary of State Robert McNamara entitled
" Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba ." The document outlined a series
of 'false flag' terrorist attacks, codenamed Operation Northwoods, to be carried out on a range
of targets and blamed on the Cuban government to give grounds for an invasion of Havana in
order to depose Fidel Castro. These scenarios included targets within the U.S., in particular
Miami, Florida, which had become a haven of right-wing émigrés and defectors
following the Cuban Revolution. In addition to the sinking of a Cuban refugee boat, one
Northwoods plan included the staging of attacks on a civilian jet airliner and a U.S. Air Force
plane to be pinned on Castro's government:
"8. It is possible to create and incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban
aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States
to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the
flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a
holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a
non-scheduled flight.
9. It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban
MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack."
Although Operation Northwoods was rejected by then-U.S. President John F. Kennedy which many
believe was a factor in his subsequent assassination, Cuban exiles with the support of U.S.
intelligence would later be implicated in such an attack the following decade with the bombing
of Cubana Airlines Flight 455 in 1976 which killed all 73 passengers and crew on board. In
2005, documents released by the
National Security Archive showed that the CIA under then-director George H.W. Bush had advanced
knowledge of the plans of a Dominican Republic-based Cuban exile terrorist organization, the
Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU), at the direction of former CIA
operative Luis Posada Carriles to blow up the airliner. The U.S. later refused to extradite
Carriles to Cuba to face charges and although he never admitted to masterminding the bombing of
the jet, he publicly confessed to other attacks on tourist hotels in Cuba during the 1990s and
was later arrested in 2000 for attempting to blow up an auditorium in Panama trying to
assassinate Castro.
In 1962, the planners of Operation Northwoods concluded that such deceptive operations would
shift U.S. public opinion unanimously against Cuba.
"World opinion and the United Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the
international image of Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and
unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere."
The same talking points are used by the U.S. government to demonize Iran today. Initially,
some Western intelligence sources also
concluded that it was a malfunction or overheated engine that brought PS752 down in
corroboration with the Iranian government's original explanation until the narrative abruptly
shifted the following day. That they were so quick to hold Iran accountable without any
investigation gave the apparent likelihood that PS752 could have fallen prey to a
Northwoods-style false flag operation designed to further isolate Iran and defame its leaders
after they took precautions to avoid U.S. casualties in their retaliatory strikes for the
killing of Soleimani. Maintaining the image of Iran as a nefarious regime is crucial in
justifying hawkish U.S. policies toward the country and Iran's noted restraint in its
retaliation put a dent in that impression, so many were suspicious and rightly so.
It was also entirely plausible that U.S. special operations planners could have consulted
the Northwoods playbook replacing Cuba with Iran and the right-wing gusanos who were to assist
the staged attacks in Miami with the Iranian opposition group known as Mujahedin e-Khalq
(MEK/People's Mujahedin of Iran) to do the same in Tehran. In July of last year, Trump's
personal lawyer and former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani gave a paid speech at the
cult-like group's compound in Albania where he not only referred to the group as Iran's
"government-in-exile" but stated
the U.S's explicit intentions to use them for regime change in Iran. The MEK enjoys high level
contacts in the Trump administration and the group was elated at his decision to murder
Soleimani in Baghdad.
From 1997 until 2012, the MEK was on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations
until it was removed by the Obama administration after its expulsion from Iraq in order to
relocate the group to fortified bases in Albania and the NATO protectorate of Kosovo. The
latter disputed territory is a perfect fit for the rebranded group having been founded by
another deregistered foreign terrorist organization, the al-Qaeda linked Kosovo Liberation Army
(KLA), whose leader, Hashim Thaçi, presides over the partially-recognized state. The MEK
are no longer designated as such despite the State Department's own account of its
bloody history:
"During the 1970s, the MEK staged terrorist attacks inside Iran to destabilize and
embarrass the Shah's regime; the group killed several US military personnel and civilians
working on defense projects in Tehran. The group also supported the takeover in 1979 of the
US Embassy in Tehran. In April 1992 the MEK carried out attacks on Iranian embassies in 13
different countries, demonstrating the group's ability to mount large-scale operations
overseas."
Declassified documents revealing the sinister plans in Operation Northwoods which shockingly
made it all the way to the desk of the president of the United States and the foreknowledge of
Cubana Airlines Flight 455 are just two examples of solid proof that false flag attacks against
civilian passenger planes are a part of the Pentagon's modus operandi as disclosed in its own
archives and there is no reason to believe that such practices have been discontinued. That the
U.S. is still cozy with "former" terror groups like MEK seeking to repatriate is good reason to
believe its use of militant exiles for covert operations like those from Havana has not been
retired. If there were jumps to conclusions that proven serial liars could be looking for an
excuse to stage an attack to lay the blame on Iran, it is only because the distinct probability
was overwhelming. Even so, a stopped clock strikes the right time twice per day and that is
all Iran's acknowledgment of its liability proves -- that even the world's most
unreliable and criminal sources in Washington and Langley can be accurate sometimes
What no one is mentioning is: the US airstrikes on Iraqi military bases, and Soleimani's
murder contributed greatly to the hair trigger response of Iran's air defense forces. If
Washington did not turn the heat up on both Iraq and Iran there would have been no need for
Iran's retaliation, and thus the level of Iran's domestic defense forces would not have been
so nervous as to pull the trigger downing the airliner.
But, if's a huge word.
Israel has had control of Iran's Russian middle systems for years. Russia gave them the
codes.
I think Israel blew up the aircraft. I can't find a link but I heard a huge number of
Soleimani loyalists were arrested in Iran. Someone should have a link to that from Twitter or
somewhere.
I think that there was some kind of collaboration between Khamenei, Israel and the US to
remove Soleimani who had designs on a coup.
I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.
I also don't know who was on that plane. So it's unclear if it was good or bad it was
destroyed. Who knows who those 176 dual Iranian Nationals were.
I just know that if Israel had control of those missile units and it would embarrass Iran
for that to be revealed it makes sense for Iran to claim the lesser of two deep shames.
Particularly if there has been some kind of tacit acceptance of a status as a vassal state
to either the US or Israel behind the scenes to preserve the regime.
Perhaps the MEK or a different vassal ruler who is really crypto Jewish will be appointed
in Solemeinis place, and Iran will hence offer a symbolic enemy to justify the continuation
of the military industrial complex in both Israel and the US.
Even a blind squirrel, even a broken clock twice a day.. The Empire's statements and blind
accusations could have been for any tragedy in a country they were psyopsing, only a matter
of chance for them to be right at some time. In any case, it wasn't intentional on Iran's
part.
Only if accidental means a joint Russian/Iranian hit on a Ukrainian plane carrying fleeing
cia/mossad agents.
This whole situation has once again displayed how easy it is for the zio-media to control
what we see and hear and believe. Disturbingly, that means that things like metoo and
"believe all women" are operations too.
@the grand wazoo I wouldn't be surprised it the FDR shows that the plane strayed off its
registered Flightpath and was involved in a covert recon mission that went bad.
It reminds me too much of MH-17, which was not hit with a BUK but with bullets. Iran should have closed its airspace
because such tricks are to be expected, irrespective of the cause of the current accident. There is no immediate reason
for Iranians to fly to Ukraine, or anywhere else. It may sound silly but flying is still a special and dangerous thing and
should not be taken for granted.
For someone who doesn't watch television or read Iranian newspapers it was only reported
on Twitter and then repeated by PressTV and others on internet. Which parts of the story are
real?
Of course, it was a huge and most regrettable mistake. Doubtless, the Iranians will
compensate the victims for what that is worth. Most of the passengers were Iranians. I
suspect that many of the "Canadians" Trudeau is on about are of Iranian descent. They would
certainly be considered to be Iranians in Iran.
The series of coincidences highlighted in this article are remarkable. It has
synchronicity splashed all over it.
I worked at Tehran airport for some years prior to the Revolution. After the Revolution, I
volunteered to return on behalf of Raytheon (of all companies) to get some money owing. No
one else was prepared to go there. Iran Air personnel were delighted to meet me again and
they promptly paid the bill. I took a holiday to the Caspian with my ex-girlfriend.
A further piece of synchronicity is that I am currently visiting Kiev. The world is a
truly incestuous place.
Set aside the beatup of two operations that neither the CIA or any American agency carried
out the author has apparently failed to see the obvious. That is that the Iranians had no
possibility of covering up the missile strike. Or did he imagine that everyone who might tell
the truth could be kept permanently separated from plane parts and bodies which would have
shown unmistakeable and undeniable evidences of the strike.
Another leak (ukr) from the
Ukrainian side of the investigation gives some hints on how the plane came down (machine
translation):
"We took up the restoration of fragments of the aircraft. It was necessary to determine how
these pieces of metal dumped into a huge pile should be interconnected.
The intrigue remained until late. The fact is that there were no damages on most parts of
the aircraft. There was no explosion and no fire in the engines or on the wings. It is
possible that the plane could fall almost intact. Unlike the remains of the Boeing MN-17,
there were no immediately visible signs of defeat by combat elements on the fuselage and
wings. A lot of damage to the case is the result of a fall. But after laying out all the
fragments of the aircraft, it became obvious that the bottom of the cockpit was missing.
Among the wreckage, fragments of the upper part of the cabin were identified. And then the
find finally took place - at about 22 hours. On a fragment of the cockpit, we found holes in
the damaging elements of the warhead of the rocket, which pierced the skin. We found! For the
first time, direct evidence appeared in this case, which made it possible to prove what
caused the death of the aircraft. For us it was a turning point.
So what we now understand:
Russian anti-aircraft missile "Tor" hit the liner in the lower part of the front of the
fuselage, directly under the cockpit.
A direct hit and the cabin flared up inside. Instantly turned off the transponder of the
aircraft, which gives signals about the flight. Instantly lost contact.
While there is no data, one or two missiles have caused such damage. It is possible that
the second missile also hit the fuselage from below close to the first. But all this remains
to be clarified.
We continue to lay out fragments of the aircraft until the complete collection of all
surviving parts.
We expect that today we will gain access to all objective control data.
In cooperation with Iranian colleagues, we get the impression that those who contact us
sincerely want to help themselves and figure it out, in general, there are no problems. Let's
hope that such a mood and working contacts remain with us now."
They really are able to turn white into black and black into white.
Notable quotes:
"... 1) Occurs as Iran is on brink of war with USA?; 2) Indications of USA using info war tactics; 3) airliner owner by Kolomoisky? 4) No communication with tower? 5) USA and Israel history of duplicity and narrative management (example: MH-17). ..."
"... NATO has weaponized aircraft accident investigations. Lawfare in combination with state terrorism. ..."
"... The Ukies know how to obliterate a debris field. MH-17 -- They used artillery for months to keep OSCE and Dutch officials away, and despite the locals working to protect the deceased and the debris, body parts have been found years later. ..."
There were also clear sightings of a missile to bring down TWA 800. Except it didn't. As an
Navy Pilot , flight instructor and 737 captain this does not at 1st or 2nd glance appear to
be a missile strike. Catastropic engine failure is my bet. They made most of the turn back to
the airport before losing integrity or loss of thrust.
On Wednesday, Boeing's shares plummeted by 2.3 percent ($3.4bn) after the Ukrainian Boeing
737-800 aircraft crashed in Tehran due to encountering a technical glitch.
On Thursday, the stock rose by 3 percent after unnamed Pentagon officials claimed that
the Ukrainian passenger plane was most likely brought down by anti-aircraft missiles, and
US President Donald Trump implicitly supported the claim. This has been read by analysists
as an attempt to manipulate the stock market; a measure that would both overshadow Trump's
failure in Iraq and save Boeing from bankruptcy.
I didn't find the article on TASS. Maybe it was in its Russian version, or in its
TV/Radio/Podcast version.
I don't discard a terrorist attack from the inside, or sabotage of the plane by the
Ukrainian government. What I think is missile attack can be pretty much discarded: the
evidence the Iranians already have through their air control data discard any possibility, by
sheer logic alone, that that was the case.
Unless, of course, the Iranians are lying. But then there isn't any cui bono for Iran to
lie about it (if it was a mistake they wanted to cover, they could blame a random independent
militia so as to give plausible deniability) with the technical malfunction argument, and now
Russia's foreign minister Ryabkov is on the boat with it - so I don't see the cui bono for
Russia either.
Perseus wore a magic cap so that the monsters he hunted down might not see him. Some of
you choose to draw the magic cap down over your eyes and ears so as to make-believe that
there are no monsters in Iran.
"Some of you choose to draw the magic cap down over your eyes and ears so as to
make-believe that there are no monsters in Iran."
No, it is a lot easier than that.
Most of us dont get paid to post bs about the imperial enemies like you, and most off us
still know how to use our brain.
That is it, nothing more nothing less.
Rob@2 - What do you make of the loss of ADS-B? Could a catastrophic engine failure take out
both power buses? The ADS-B transceiver? I know a the turbine blades turn into little missile
blades when they decide to leave the engine, but I have no idea of the way power is
transferred when either bus or the standby goes down. I assume automatic? Are the transfer
switches anywhere near the engines? Does the APU automatically fire up? I assume the ADS-B
box is in the electronics bay, but where is the antenna?
Thanks b! As I commented towards the end of the previous thread on this topic, the mundane
evidence has already been shown. IMO, if a missile or bomb was employed, the Iranians would
be yelling louder than anyone and the denials would be coming from BigLie Media instead of
accusations. And as I answered psychohistorian, the massive coverage by BigLie media serves
as narrative distraction from what's being obfuscated--casualties taken by Outlaw US Empire
troops and the BDA presented by Iranian Military.
In that regard, The
Saker's update sticks to the important facts of the now escalated ongoing war between
Iran and the Evil Empire.
Sorry, but there's good reasons to suspect foul play - as I and others have explained on the
last thread.
1) Occurs as Iran is on brink of war with USA?; 2) Indications of USA using info war
tactics; 3) airliner owner by Kolomoisky? 4) No communication with tower? 5) USA and Israel
history of duplicity and narrative management (example: MH-17).
<> <> <> <>
Also: IMO it's dangerous for Iran to invite experts from a group of Western countries.
What is likely to happen is that all the Western experts will be pressure to disagree with
Iran's findings. CIA knows that people will believe the "group of experts!" over Iran.
I don't know how anal Iran is about keeping track of ordinance but they must be pretty
certain as to whether they downed the plane or not! Looks like they are being transparent and
open. If they come out of this proving engine failure or something else then this could be a
great pr coup.
There would be a lot of egg on many faces trying to explain how the intelligence is wrong yet
again. I look forward to watching trudeau walk that back. Hopefully!
One explanation is the Boeing was used as a human shield, a military plane hides behind a
slow moving plane when detected. The ukrainians did it with the MH17 and the israeli with the
russian plane and tried it with the attack on damascus. In both cases there was a lot of
dis-info and blaming right away. But the iranian would have known what the target was, and
mentioned it, so very unlikely.
Another question is the possibility a smaller missile only damaged the plane, also very
unlikely.
Head of Iran Civil Aviation Organization Ali Abedzadeh exaggerates: "From a scientific
viewpoint, it is impossible that a missile hit the Ukrainian plane."
"We can say that the airplane, considering the kind of the crash and the pilot's efforts to
return it to Imam Khomeini airport, didn't explode in the air. So, the allegation that it was
hit by missiles is totally ruled out," the official noted.
Dude, when you're in Wyoming and see critter tracks down by the creek, you would assume it
was Martians rather than antelope? Get real. The Ukie blew a crappy GE engine...they have
this characteristic...
Stay real, use Occam's Razor + physical evidence. Otherwise it's distraction and
TBS...
Craig Murray has been tracking a propagandist Wikipedia editor called "Philip Cross", here
is the main article, but there are others on his site The Philip Cross
Affair
ICAO is in contact with the States involved and will assist them if called upon. Its
leadership is stressing the importance of avoiding speculation into the cause of the tragedy
pending the outcomes of the investigation ...
ICAO may be a worthy organization (some staff changes seem to be warranted), but isn't it
a bit too much?! If this is a sincere wish of democratically elected heads of democratic
nations that they want to form a harmonious chorus and speculate, then no mundane power can
stop them. BTW, what is wrong with Zelensky that he did not join? PTSD after the brutal
telephonies calls? I would add it to the list of proven damages to the security of those
several states that will be debated in the Senate. [end of snark, "several states" is the
entity named in the so-called Constitution of The United States of America].
The flight originated in Teheran, bound for Kiev, but where was it before it arrived in Iran?
It could have been sabotaged anywhere; then easy, right, to set off an onboard bomb by remote
control from the ground? I'm sure Iran is crawling with Mosssad/MI6/CIA spooks.
So you turn a blind eye to atrocities committed by other countries or peoples because the
US government is responsible for the most? Did you even complete your high school education
with that sort of reasoning? I never absolved the US or any other country. Simpletons like
you seem to live in a black and white world in which one side must be chosen over the other.
I feel unfortunate for b or anyone else who frequents this blog who does not view the world
in such a profoundly problematic way.
I am far more informed about Iranian politics, history, culture and religion than most
people here. Please don't allow your hate for the USA, well justified, to cloud your
judgment.
NATO has weaponized aircraft accident investigations. Lawfare in combination with state
terrorism.
It's time for new rules and regulations. ICAO Annex 13 was drafted in different times. A
rule based order is ancient history.
People should be able to chose their destination, route and carrier based on personal
preferences like price and comfort, not on factors like the latest or next conflict zone,
corruption in the countries along the route, military and political adventurism, etc.
- As said before: I didn't believe for one second that that ukrainian plane was shot down. It
would have given the US simply another stick to beat up the iranian government. I assume the
iranians are smart enough to know that. They simply don't want to escalate the situation
more. Although Iran has now the "moral high ground" it is still (very) vulnerable in a number
of ways.
- I think the ukrainian tourists were small traders. I.e. buy stuff e.g. clothing and other
"merchandise" in Teheran, bring it into the Ukraine and then sell that "merchandise" in
Ukraine with a (big) profit.
We have a distinguished professor in our midst! Quite unlike the lowly regular
professors or inconsequential adjunct instructors that normally grace these pages. Let me
kick back and get a tan from the brilliance pouring out of this one! Us high latitude types
have to get our Vitamin D wherever we can.
As for my lack of criticism of Iran's government, that's the business of the Iranian
people and none of my own. The Evil Empire attacking Iran? That, unfortunately, is everyone's
business whether they want it to be or not.
Why is it that these wise guys from the West (Americans mostly) feel it is their duty to
criticize everyone else's governments and cultures when the examples they are setting
themselves are so appallingly bad? Maybe these distinguished critics of other peoples'
ways of life feel that it is easier to fix those other peoples' societies than it is to fix
their own. After all, they apparently feel that fixing other countries just requires some
number of bombs, while fixing their own country... where do they even start? How do you fix
perfection?
I'd be curious to know whether the flight crew on board Flight PS752 had had sufficient rest.
Three hours of resting do not seem like sufficient time but that depends on the journey the
plane made to Tehran, the duration of that journey and where it started. Was the plane also
checked for signs of wear and tear during the three-hour-plus pause?
Are UIA's owners (among them Ihor Kolomoisky) working their employees and hardware assets
too hard and too cheaply as well?
Yes. I think so too. Looks like the engine ran at reduced thrust as they turned, and then
failed entirely at below minimum control speed, with the expected result, asymmetrical stall,
yaw, roll, bang.
There are pictures of severe erosion of what looks like compressor wheel from, presumably,
ingestion of foreign material. Crap on the runway probably, and pencil-whipped maintenance, I
should imagine.
journey80@26 - Kiev is Ukrainian Airlines main hub. The 737 arrived from Kiev earlier that
morning and was returning there.
Jen@36 - No reason to do anything but a cursory safety check at Tehran. The airline's
mechanics are in Kiev - anything beyond a normal pre-flight check involving maintenance would
be done there, not Tehran. I doubt the crew was rested. That's not how UAI rolls on it's hub
round-trips.
UAI is also bleeding money like crazy. They're nearly bankrupt and stole the money they
collect from passengers for the Ukraine Civil Aviation Authority fees. Tens of millions USD.
The new CEO promises to fix everything somehow. I guess by overworking crews, skipping
maintenance and crappy service. Those are always money-savers for cheap, poorly-run airlines
(prior to bankruptcy). Too bad. Supposedly it wasn't that bad of an airline when they first
added passenger service to their existing cargo ops a decade ago, but has been going downhill
ever since.
"Some real gems you got following your blog b." So why are you here?
Ocams razor... bookies odds... planes fall out o the sky from time to time for all sorts of
reasons not related to malicious activity. What are the odds of this occurring in Iran
shortly after an Iran strike on a US base.
The US has and does use terrorist tactics such as shooting down passenger jets. Trump
threatened Iran with retribution against cultural sites and so forth (terrorist actions).
Fifty two targets of fifty two ways of getting back at Iran.
What are the odds US would down a passenger jet in Iran within hours of Iran's strike against
their base.
I have to go with US terrorist actions for that one. Similar to the protests in Iraq. The
people had genuine grievances as do all good color revolutions but the were just too
advantageous for the US for it not to be a made in the US color revolution style protest. We
now know from the Iraq PM that is exactly what it was.
The odds are unrelated unless there's agency. No agency has been credibly proposed. You know
this is so, as the probability maths in se have been discussed previously @ MoA.
But of course, the US does murder all over the place, so if there is agency, then I tend
to agree with the idea that "they" or their cohort in zionishland may be causative. What are
the "odds" that the engine shown has severe blade erosion? Again 100% . Engine swallows scrap
off the tarmac...a dependent relation, drop junk in engine, blades damaged, run at 100%, 100%
"chance" of engine failure.
Repeating the essence of the matter of odds>
"Two events are independent, statistically independent, or stochastically independent if
the occurrence of one does not affect the probability of occurrence of the other
(equivalently, does not affect the odds). Similarly, two random variables are independent if
the realization of one does not affect the probability distribution of the other."
ie without a dependent relationship the odds are whatever the odds are for engine failure
and crash. And the other odds don't exist, because those events, the shooting, was not random
or accidental. The odds of Iran firing rockets in reprisal was dependent on the US attacks,
ie 100%
But if you're building engines at GE, or obsolete defective airplanes in Seattle, then of
course the odds are that you devoutly wish it was a rocket up the tailpipe... Pay-day's come
Friday, and all of that...
I know NYT is a sham, and believe me I held my intellectual nose as I went into its site.
It's not somewhere I frequent at all.
I did think about the point you made too, but there are 2 issues:
1) In the other 2 videos we see the plane as it's already burning, we don't see it in its
"before" state. For me it's reasonable to imagine the hit on the impact caused some initial
burning which was extinguished due to wind, and then started back up again a few moments
after the NYT video ended and before the other 2 videos began.
2) If the NYT video is indeed doctored (and for me it would be a pretty convincing
doctor), why wouldn't the creator simply keep the light going until the end of the vid?
Iran will announce the cause of the Ukrainian Boeing 737 crash after the accident
investigation commission meeting on Saturday, the Fars News agency reported on Thursday,
citing a source familiar with the matter.
"Tomorrow, after the meeting of the civil aviation accident investigation
commission, the cause of the crash of the Ukrainian passenger plane will be announced", the
source said.
Domestic and foreign parties, whose citizens died in the crash, will take part in the
Saturday meeting, the outlet added. They will announce the reason for the accident after
reviewing the preliminary report.
[.]Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko asked that the media not spread "unconfirmed"
information on Friday, pleading with reporters to "reduce the level of speculation" while
the probe continues. The experts are still analyzing evidence, looking at the bodies of the
victims and the wreckage in hope of gaining insight into what took down Ukraine
International Airlines Flight PS752, killing all 176 people on board.[,]
If no one had engaged with nine-drongos the thread would not have been disrupted and perhaps
a useful dialog about the plane crash could have ensued. Those who did swallow the hook are
just as guilty the original whatabouter of making this thread useless - good job. I would say
exercise some discipline but that would be a waste of breath given the insecurities about
their beliefs too many here apparently have. Letting some arsehole spout uninterrupted is a
better indication of your point of view than anger, hysteria or ad hominem. Your stupidity
has caused a thread to fail.
The Ukies know how to obliterate a debris field. MH-17 -- They used artillery for months to
keep OSCE and Dutch officials away, and despite the locals working to protect the deceased
and the debris, body parts have been found years later.
#57 posted by Poor Ramin Mazaheri who works for Press TV and has had many articles published
on The Saker. He would describe the Iranian economy as socialist with Iranian charters. The
link to the article below is an excellent source for information on Iran's economy.
What comes as a surprise to me is ICAO seems to have some integrity. It seems the US and
friends haven't completely taken it over.
You can judge someone by their friends. NATO and the terrorists in Idlib have backed the
killing of Soleimani. Who seems to enjoy killing civilians? The US just droned killed 60
civilians in Afghanistan. Information provided by the Iraqi prime minister showed the US is
willing to use snipers and paid protesters to tear Iraq apart. They utterly destroyed Mosul
and Raqqa without regard for civilians. The Syrian government has tried to avoid civilian
deaths, which is why those who want to cause chaos in the region always accuses them of
targeting civilians. So the US would have no problem getting MEK to or some other group to
shoot the plane down but I'm leaning against that scenario.
The US has been planning to control oil for a long time. In 1975 a feasibility study was
prepared for the Special Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on International
Relations on "Oil fields as military objectives", better described as bringing Democracy to
the Middle East. Well, they did that sorta in Iraq, and now the Iraq government has politely
asked the US to leave and the Iranians have demonstrated to them why they should leave. I'm
not sure if the Ukrainian plane crashing is the next move the US has made in this great game,
but I would put my money on shoddy management of the Ukrainian plane. Why not, the country is
barely functioning. I doubt the plane was hit with a missle. More likely the US can't pass up
an opportunity for stirring trouble and the MSM has no problem memory holing another lie.
Jen Flight PS752 passenger
list shows that the huge majority of passengers carrying Iranian, Canadian and EU passports
were Iranian.
These people were most likely visiting relatives in Iran over Christmas / New Year and were
returning home. They were using UIA because the airline offers cheap flights between North
America, Europe and western Asia with Kiev as a stop-over. Most of these people would have got
off in Kiev and flown back to their home countries on other connecting flights.
Also as far as I know, the plane crashed not long after take-off. That, er, might suggest a
problem with the plane itself. But the Boeing plane is not of the same model as the two Boeing
737 MAX 8 planes that crashed in Indonesia in 2018 and Ethiopia in 2019.
Incidentally there is a new documentary "MH-17: In Search of Truth"
doing the rounds of online alternative news media. The fellow who made the documentary, Vasily
Prozorov, is a former SBU security officer. It makes an interesting claim about the involvement
of Western intelligence agencies and the SBU in creating and carrying out an incident and
distraction, and in controlling and shaping the narrative and the disinformation.
I'm now starting to wonder if there may be a link between the MH17 shoot-down and the
Skripal poisoning incident in March 2018. 3 -1 Reply Jan 9, 2020 9:42 PM
richard le sarc ,
No visual sighting of missile tracks, I see, and the video of the explosion then crash does
not appear to show any. Details, mere details-the presstitute vermin are in full vilification
propaganda mode already.
richard le sarc ,
I'm sorry-Iran ' refuses to hand over the black boxes'???!! To whom? To Bibi Nuttyyahoo,
perhaps? Iran leads the investigation, so they decipher the 'black boxes'. The case of MH17
where the black box information has simply disappeared, tells you what you could expect if
the West ever got their hands on these.
Never mind 9/11 where any blackbox data was most likely fabricated like the planes
themselves.
Yonatan ,
Iran is apparently refusing to hand over the black boxes from the crashed plane.
should be
Under ICAO rules, Iran has no obliation to pass on the black boxes from the crashed plane
to the maker. All it need do is pass them on to any laboratory of its chosing that has ICAO
certification.
Eyewitnesses saw one engine on fire before the crash, the plane still on a glide, but the
737-800 can fly on one engine, others have done so and landed safely.
This leads one to believe this was not a simple "engine on fire" situation.
If indeed it was a shoot-down, it was far enough away from the security-protected area of
the airport, but not so high that a simple manpad-type weapon would be ruled out.
Another option is a small bomb placed in an engine cowl, which could be activated by
altitude sensing or remote control (the plane wasn't very high, and the probable flight path
well known). Big enough device to damage the engine and start a fire and maybe knock out the
shut-off and fire suppression systems, but not big enough to be obvious. The engine fails,
spits out turbine blades which damage the wing and puncture fuel tanks, damage the avionics
for the whole plane. Rotor speeds will be in the multiple-10,000s RPM, so a LOT of kinetic
energy when these things come apart.
Cui bono? The obvious answer is the Deep State Zionists in Israel and the US, so this may
have been a Mossad operation, with or without the knowledge of the CIA or US military.
The fact Trumpty Dumbdy is playing the "deescalation card" so strongly could indicate he
didn't authorize it and hopes to stop Nuttyyahoo/Mossad from frog-marching him into a war
that would lose him the next election for being a flip-flopper on his last election "end the
endless proxy wars" rhetoric.
"By deception shall you do war"... the Mossad mission statement.
If US officials claim they are "confident", that actually means they don't have a shred of
evidence. Intelligence lingo.
It's too early to call but POTUS claims Iran shot down the Ukrainian 737 near Tehran. On
CBS fake News they suggest that the US have satellite imagery showing two SAM launches right
before the crash.
Almost six years down the road we are still waiting for the MH17 satellite imagery that
exist according to John Kerry. He was lying or the images and the narrative don't match.
Hint: the second option.
To prevent crashing airliners, PSYOPS, sanctions, fake trials etc. steer well clear of the
Ukraine, Ukrainians, Ukrainian airspace, the Ukrainian army, Ukrainian missiles and Ukrainian
planes. You don't want to touch the Ukraine, not even with a very long stick.
We can be confident (in the normal sense of the word) that Bellingcat will be involved.
Those NATO sponsored citizen propagandist will spend countless hours doctoring "evidence" and
spinning neocon lies to their heart's content.
It must have been a Russian BUK that was driven on the back of a trailer by Putin's niece
all the way from Kursk to Tehran, a direct order from the Kremlin!
In Turkey the trailer almost overran Bana Alabed and evil Assad provided some Novichok
along the way to coat the throttles of the 737 in case the missile wouldn't hit its intended
target. Boeing 737's don't fall from the sky on their own.
A fact finding mission from the OPCW has left The Hague for Tehran, they might even find
some cannisters containing chlorine in the wreckage. It looks like they dropped from the air,
they were not placed there manually.
The Dutch Safety Board is 100% independent from NATO influence and could conduct the
accident investigation in an impartial way. No conflict of interest whatsoever.
The Ukraine will be part of the Joint Investigation Team that does the criminal
investigation and to assure everything will be done according to law they will even get a
veto right over the investigation.
Iran can be confident that justice will be served.
The Ukraine wants to do the 737 accident investigation. Why? To delegate it to the Dutch, get
Bellingcat involved and blame it on Russia?
I am sure Bellingcat will find some shitty video online of a Russian Buk that backed up
all the way from Kursk to Tehran without nobody else noticing it. Putin's niece was driving
it by direct order from the Kremlin!
Mike Pence will blame Iran for MH17 and Iraq will be sanctioned for it. Don't you just love the rule based order?
Ukraine is now a pawn in a big geopolitical game against Russia. Which somehow survived 90th when everybody including myself has
written it off.
That's why the USA, EU (Germany) and Russia pulling the country in different directions. But the victory of Ukrainian nationalists
is not surprising and is not solely based on the US interferences (although the USA did lot in this direction) pursuit its geopolitical
game against Russia. Distancing themselves from Russa is a universal trend in Post-Soviet space. And it often takes ugly forms.
So Ukraine in not an exception here. It is part of the "rule". Essentially the dissolution of the USSR revised the result on WWII.
And while the author correctly calls Ukrainian leader US stooges, they moved in this direction because they feel that it is necessary
for maintaining the independence. In other words anti-Russian stance is considered by the Ukrainian elite as a a pre-condition for mainlining
independence. Otherwise people like Parubiy would be in jail very soon. They are tolerated and even promoted because they are useful.
It repeats the story of Baltic Republics, albeit with a significant time delay. There should be some social group that secure independence
of the country and Ukrainian nationalists happen to be such a group. That's why Yanukovich supported them and Svoboda party (with predictable
results).
Notable quotes:
"... The ideological fissures that are growing in the United States are beginning to resemble the warring camps that characterize the Ukrainian political world. The divide in Ukraine pits groups who are described as "right wing" and many are ideological descendants of real Nazis and Nazi sympathizers against groups with a strong affinity to Russia. This kind of gap cannot be bridged through conventional negotiations. ..."
"... Jump ahead now to the April 2014 "uprising" of anti-Russian forces in the Ukraine (Maidan 2). The US was firmly on the side of the protesters, who ultimately succeeded in ousting the elected President. And who were helping lead this effort? ..."
"... The US support, both overt and covert, for Ukrainian politicians is grounded in an anti-Soviet (now anti-Russian) ideology. We have convinced ourselves that Russia is hell bent on world domination. Therefore we must do whatever is necessary to stop Russia, which includes uncritical, blind support for elements in Ukraine that also detest the Russians. But in doing so we have closed our eyes to the filthy underbelly of the virulent anti-Semitism that lurks in western Ukraine. ..."
"... US meddling in the Ukraine is astonishing in its breadth. It ranges from the fact that the wife of former President Viktor Yuschenko was an American citizen and former senior official in the US State Department. Do you think there would be no complaints if Melania Trump was born in Russia and had served in the Russian Foreign Ministry? Yet, most Americans are happily ignorant of such facts. ..."
"... US interference was not confined to serendipitous relationships, such as the Yushchenko marriage. It also included the open and active funding of certain political groups and media outlets. The US State Department sent money through a variety of outlets. One of these was the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening aka CEPPS. ..."
"... This is : ..."
"... Count me as one of the people who is outraged by the hypocrisy and stupidity now on display in the United States. I am not talking about Trump. I am referring to the Republicans and Democrats and pundits and media mouthpieces who are fuming about Russian citizens writing on Facebook as one of the worst catastrophes since Pearl Harbor or 9-11. ..."
"... There clearly is meddling going on in America's political landscape. But it isn't the Russian Government. No. There are foreign and domestic forces aligned who are keen on portraying Russia as a threat to world order that must be opposed by more defense spending and tougher sanctions. That is the propaganda that dominates the media in the United States these days. And that is truly dangerous to our nation's safety and freedom. ..."
"... A CIA guy recently said the US only interferes to 'promote democracy' - tell that to Australia, Vietnam, Mexico, Chile, Congo, Russia, Ukraine...it's a long long list. ..."
"... An independent Ukraine was also a project of German foreign policy after the Brest-Litowsk Treaty (the equivalent of the Versailles Treaty, only aimed at Russia) SO I have o wonder how much of the enthusiasm for Vicky Nuland's Israel friendly Nazi state-let (oh what irony!) is a product of Germany wanting to reassert itself in the east, using NATO solidarity as a fig leaf. Maybe they will make Ukraine import a lot o Africans "refugees" so that Soros' project of creating a brown Europe will be advanced in the Slavic sphere as well as the west. ..."
"... The liberal party - who provides the prime-minister - EU leader Hans van Baalen and Belgian ex-prime minister Guy Verhostad held a controversial speech on the Maidan square in support of the protesters that the EU will support them. ..."
"... I wouldn't put to much stress on Bandera having been a bad guy. His enemies were no better. They just won the war and the victors write history. The deeper problem of Ukraine is the fact that in the East of the country (and maybe even the majority of the country) Bandera is indeed regarded as a villain. But in the West he is a hero to this day. Even in Soviet times people from Western Ukraine were regarded as "fascists" by much of the rest of the country. No wonder as there were anti soviet partisans until late in the fifties. ..."
"... "Prorussian" Kutshma turned into a Ukrainian "patriot" (such is the logic of statehood) and the same thing happened with Yanukovich. People forget that he would have signed an association agreement with Europe had Europe not refused because he was insufficiently "democratic". ..."
"... But the West wanted it all. They wanted Ukraine firmly in the "Western" camp. Thereby they ripped the country apart. As a good friend of mine who has studied in Kiev in Soviet times remarked: to ask Ukraine to choose between East and West is like asking a child in divorce proceedings who it liked more: daddy or mummy? ..."
"... A very interesting conversation between Victoria Nulland and ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, caught at picking the future rulers of liberated Ukraine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk This is not meddling. This is a defensive (preemptive?) action against Russian agression. ..."
"... I've never seen such an intense barrage of propaganda before in my life. America is fracturing apart like Ukraine. This is no coincidence. In both countries, oligarchs have seized power, the rule of law abandoned and there is a rush of corruption. ..."
"... What we did to Ukraine is shameful in every way. A remember a video of a pallet of money being unloaded from a USG place at Kiev during Maidan 2. That's in addition to Nuland's bag of cookies. I always thought that one of the objectives of our meddling in Ukraine was to make Sevastopol into a NATO naval base. ..."
"... Our leaders are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. The Ukraine was almost evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian sides. Our government, rather than waiting for an election, assisted an armed rebellion against the elected pro-Russian government. Among the groups our government allied with in this endeavor were out and out Nazis. ..."
The ideological fissures that are growing in the United States are beginning to resemble the warring camps that characterize
the Ukrainian political world. The divide in Ukraine pits groups who are described as "right wing" and many are ideological descendants
of real Nazis and Nazi sympathizers against groups with a strong affinity to Russia. This kind of gap cannot be bridged through conventional
negotiations.
Who is the United States government and media supporting? The Nazis . You think I'm joking. Here are the facts, but we must go
back to World War II
:
When World War II began a large part of western Ukraine welcomed the German soldiers as liberators from the recently enforced
Soviet rule and openly collaborated with the Germans. The Soviet leader, Stalin, imposed policies that caused the deaths of almost
7 million Ukrainians in the 1930s--an era known as the Holomodor).
Ukrainian divisions, regiments and battalions were formed, such as SS Galizien, Nachtigal and Roland, and served under German
leadership. In the first few weeks of the war, more than 80 thousand people from the Galizien region volunteered for the SS Galizien,
which later known for its extreme cruelty towards Polish, Jewish and Russian people on the territory of Ukraine.
Members of these military groups came mostly from the organization of Ukrainian nationalists aka the OUN, which was founded in
1929. It's leader was Stepan Bandera, known then and today for his extreme anti-semitic and anti-communist views.
CIA documents just recently declassified show strong ties between US intelligence and Ukrainian nationalists since 1946.
Jump ahead now to the April 2014 "uprising" of anti-Russian forces in the Ukraine (Maidan 2). The US was firmly on the side
of the protesters, who ultimately succeeded in ousting the elected President.
And who were helping lead
this effort?
Secretary of the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council is Andriy Parubiy. Parubiy was the founder of the Social National
Party of Ukraine, a fascist party styled on Hitler's Nazis, with membership restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.
The Social National Party would go on to become Svoboda, the far-right nationalist party whose leader,
Oleh Tyahnybok was
one of the three most high profile leaders of the Euromaidan protests. . . .
Overseeing the armed forces alongside Parubiy as the Deputy Secretary of National Security is
Dmytro Yarosh , the leader of the Right
Sector – a group of hardline nationalist streetfighters, who
previously boasted they were ready for
armed struggle to free Ukraine.
The US support, both overt and covert, for Ukrainian politicians is grounded in an anti-Soviet (now anti-Russian) ideology.
We have convinced ourselves that Russia is hell bent on world domination. Therefore we must do whatever is necessary to stop Russia,
which includes uncritical, blind support for elements in Ukraine that also detest the Russians. But in doing so we have closed our
eyes to the filthy underbelly of the virulent anti-Semitism that lurks in western Ukraine.
US meddling in the Ukraine is astonishing in its breadth. It ranges from the fact that the wife of former President Viktor
Yuschenko was an American citizen and former senior official in the US State Department. Do you think there would be no complaints
if Melania Trump was born in Russia and had served in the Russian Foreign Ministry? Yet, most Americans are happily ignorant of such
facts.
But Viktor Yushchenko is not an American who speaks a foreign language. He is very much a Ukrainian nationalist and steeped in
the anti-Semitism that dominates the ideology of western Ukraine. During the final months of his Presidency, Yushchenko made the
following declaration:
In conclusion I would like to say something that is long awaited by the Ukrainian patriots for many years I have signed a decree
for the unbroken spirit and standing for the idea of fighting for independent Ukraine. I declare Stepan Bandera a national hero of
Ukraine.
Without hesitation or shame, Yushchenko endorsed the legacy of Bandera, who had happily aligned with the Nazis in pursuit of his
own nationalist goals. Those goals, however, did not include Jews. And here is the ultimate irony--Bandera was born in Austria, not
the Ukraine. So much for ideological consistency.
US interference was not confined to serendipitous relationships, such as the Yushchenko marriage. It also included the open
and active funding of certain political groups and media outlets. The US State Department sent money through a variety of outlets.
One of these was the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening aka CEPPS.
This is :
a USAID program with other National Endowment for Democracy-affiliated groups: the National Democratic Institute for International
Affairs, the International Republican Institute and the International Foundation for Electoral Systems. In 2010, the reported disbursement
for CEPPS in Ukraine was nearly $5 million.
The program's efforts are described on the USAID website as providing "training for political party activists and locally elected
officials to improve communication with civic groups and citizens, and the development of NGO-led advocacy campaigns on electoral
and political process issues."
Anyone prepared to argue that it would be okay for Russia, through its Foreign Ministry, to contribute several million dollars
for training party activists in the United States?
What we do not know is how much money was being spent on covert activities directed and managed by the CIA. During the political
upheaval in April 2014 (Maidan 2), there was this news item:
Over the weekend, CIA director John Brennan travelled to Kiev, nobody knows exactly why, but some speculate that he intends to
open US intelligence resources to Ukrainian leaders about real-time Russian military maneuvers. The US has, thus far, refrained from
sharing such knowledge because Moscow is believed to have penetrated much of Ukraine's communications systems – and
Washington isn't about to hand over its surveillance secrets to the
Russians.
Do you think Americans would be outraged if the head of Russia's version of the CIA, the SVR or FSB, traveled quietly to the United
States to meet with Donald Trump prior to his election? I think that would qualify as meddling.
Count me as one of the people who is outraged by the hypocrisy and stupidity now on display in the United States. I am not
talking about Trump. I am referring to the Republicans and Democrats and pundits and media mouthpieces who are fuming about Russian
citizens writing on Facebook as one of the worst catastrophes since Pearl Harbor or 9-11.
There clearly is meddling going on in America's political landscape. But it isn't the Russian Government. No. There are foreign
and domestic forces aligned who are keen on portraying Russia as a threat to world order that must be opposed by more defense spending
and tougher sanctions. That is the propaganda that dominates the media in the United States these days. And that is truly dangerous
to our nation's safety and freedom.
Good post pt.. thanks... i never knew ''the wife of former President Viktor Yushchenko was an American citizen and former senior
official in the US State Department.'' That is informative.. i recall following this closely back in 2014.. the hypocrisy on display
in the usa at present is truly amazing and frightening at the same time.. it appears that the public can be cowed very easily..
On the twitters, you would be accused of "whatabouttism" - which is the crime of excusing Putin's diabolism by pointing out
American interference with the internal politics an elections of other nations. A CIA guy recently said the US only interferes
to 'promote democracy' - tell that to Australia, Vietnam, Mexico, Chile, Congo, Russia, Ukraine...it's a long long list.
An independent Ukraine was also a project of German foreign policy after the Brest-Litowsk Treaty (the equivalent of the
Versailles Treaty, only aimed at Russia) SO I have o wonder how much of the enthusiasm for Vicky Nuland's Israel friendly Nazi
state-let (oh what irony!) is a product of Germany wanting to reassert itself in the east, using NATO solidarity as a fig leaf.
Maybe they will make Ukraine import a lot o Africans "refugees" so that Soros' project of creating a brown Europe will be advanced
in the Slavic sphere as well as the west.
It's not only the US. The EU borg are also meddling. In my country we had a referendum about Ukraine. The population voted "Against"
on the question: "Are you for or against the Approval Act of the Association Agreement between the European Union and Ukraine?"
This was the only referendum that was done since it was implemented in 2015. A second one is being organized on the Intelligence
and Security Services which has controversial parts with regard to access to internet traffic.
This referendum will take place on March 21, 2018 and will probably be voted against because of the controversial elements
(in part because there is still living memory of our Eastern neighbors in the second world war)
These 2 will probably be the last. Our house of representatives have voted yesterday to end the referendum law (with a majority
vote of 76 out of 150 representatives!)
So much for democracy. The reason stated that the referendum was controversial (probably because they voted against the EU
borg). Interesting is that the proposal was done by the party that wanted the referendum as a principal point. This will almost
certainly ensure that the little respect left for traditional parties is gone and they will not be able to get a majority next
elections.
The liberal party - who provides the prime-minister - EU leader
Hans van Baalen and Belgian ex-prime minister Guy
Verhostad held a controversial speech on the Maidan square in support of the protesters that the EU will support them.
I wouldn't put to much stress on Bandera having been a bad guy. His enemies were no better. They just won the war and the
victors write history. The deeper problem of Ukraine is the fact that in the East of the country (and maybe even the majority
of the country) Bandera is indeed regarded as a villain. But in the West he is a hero to this day. Even in Soviet times people
from Western Ukraine were regarded as "fascists" by much of the rest of the country. No wonder as there were anti soviet partisans
until late in the fifties.
Even in the nineties anybody who travelled in Ukraine could feel the tension between East and West. The Russians were certainly
aware of it and mindful not to rip the country apart they cut the Ukrainians an enormous amount of slack. Of course they supported
"their" candidates and shoveled money into their insatiable throats. Only to be disappointed time and again. "Prorussian"
Kutshma turned into a Ukrainian "patriot" (such is the logic of statehood) and the same thing happened with Yanukovich. People
forget that he would have signed an association agreement with Europe had Europe not refused because he was insufficiently "democratic".
Really the West should have been content with things as they were.
But the West wanted it all. They wanted Ukraine firmly in the "Western" camp. Thereby they ripped the country apart. As
a good friend of mine who has studied in Kiev in Soviet times remarked: to ask Ukraine to choose between East and West is like
asking a child in divorce proceedings who it liked more: daddy or mummy?
Really the West (not only the US -the Eu is also guilty) is to blame. It is long past time to get down from the high horse
and stop spreading chaos and mayhem in the name of democracy,
An informative column. The coup & later developments soured me on the MSMedia. I'm an initiate into modern Russian
history: NATO in the Ukraine = WW3!
Some additional history:
A Ukrainian nation did not exist until after WW1; one piece was Russian, another Polish and another Austrian. The Holodomor
is exaggerated for political purposes; the actual number dead from famine appears to be 'only' 2M. It wasn't Soviet bloody mindedness,
it was Soviet agricultural mismanagement; collectivizing agriculture drops production.
They did this right before the great drought of the 1930s - remember the dustbowl. There was a famine in Kazakestan at the
same time; 1.5M died.
The Nazis raised 5 SS divisions out of the Ukraine. As the Germans were pushed back they ran night drops of ordnance into the
Ukraine as long as they could. The Soviets had to carry on divisional level counter insurgency until 1956. After the war, Gehlen,
Nazi intelligence czar, kept himself out of jail by turning over his files, routes & agents to the US. He also stoked anti Soviet
paranoia.
The Brits ended up with a whole Ukr SS division that they didn't want, so they gave it to Canada. Which is why Canada has such
cranky policy around the Ukraine!
A very interesting conversation between Victoria Nulland and ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, caught at picking the future rulers
of liberated Ukraine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk
This is not meddling. This is a defensive (preemptive?) action against Russian agression.
I'm sure you'd like us to ignore Bandera. I bet he liked children and dogs. Just like Hitler. Bandera was a genuine bad
guy. There is no rehabilitating that scourge on society. Nice try though.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your final comment is sarcasm. When you have two senior US Government officials
who will and will not constitute a foreign government, you have gone beyond meddling. It is worse.
The media is hysterical. Today, Putin's Facebook Bot Collaborator contacted the Kremlin before his mercenaries attacked Americans
in Syria.
I've never seen such an intense barrage of propaganda before in my life. America is fracturing apart like Ukraine. This
is no coincidence. In both countries, oligarchs have seized power, the rule of law abandoned and there is a rush of corruption.
A World War is near. The realists are gone. The Moguls are pushing Donald Trump pull the trigger. Either in Syria with an assault
to destroy Hezbollah (Iran) for good or American trainers going over the top of trenches in Donbass in a centennial attack of
the dead.
Hallelujah and jubilation! We're in full agreement on this subject. What we did to Ukraine is shameful in every way. A
remember a video of a pallet of money being unloaded from a USG place at Kiev during Maidan 2. That's in addition to Nuland's
bag of cookies. I always thought that one of the objectives of our meddling in Ukraine was to make Sevastopol into a NATO naval
base.
I would definitely want to see a full account of what support we provided to the nazi thugs of Svoboda and Pravy Sektor. We
have a long history of meddling, at least twice as long as the Soviet Union/Russia. But that does not mean we should stop investigating
the Russian interference in our 2016 election. Just stop hyperventilating over it. It no more deserves risking a war than our
continuing mutual espionage.
Our leaders are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. The Ukraine was almost evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian
sides. Our government, rather than waiting for an election, assisted an armed rebellion against the elected pro-Russian government.
Among the groups our government allied with in this endeavor were out and out Nazis.
As a result of this rebellion, the Russian majority in Crimea overwhelming voted to leave the Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which
they had been part of for over 150-years. While our government continues to provide military aid to Israel, which used force of
arms take over the West Bank, it imposed sanctions against Russia when the people of Crimea voted to join their former countrymen.
Mind boggling.
Journalist Alexander Petrakov in his article he stated that the Russian Federation is a lot
of evidence of innocence Russia and militias DND in the collapse of the Malaysian "Boeing".
"Your problem is that you have lived your whole life if there are rules. But there are no
rules." Lorne Malvo (series "Fargo", 2014)
Intelligence agencies recruit pornographers to lead their disinformation operations,
apparently because porn purveyors are so lacking in ethics they will tell public lies about
anything
Optimists probably should not read any further, as well as those who think that the higher
you sit the better you know. As well as pacifists, all those for thom "peace, friendship, and
chewing gum" has the absolute value, some kind of religion. I can't convince those types for
sure.
So I address this article to those who like me understand that it's time to start to think
independently, be skeptical. And do not absorb blindly what TV talk heads are saying, no matter
in what country you currently live and you nationality.
After the terrible catastrophe Malaysian liner we can see two major hypothesis, two points
of views and two "truth": one is Russian position and the second version promoted by Ukraine
and supported by the USA (or vice versa).
Which one you should believe more? The one that promoted by MSM of G7 countries or one that
is promoted Russian MSM by and some other from the "the rest of the world". The answer, in
fact, already evident. The "world-at-large" typically assumes that the "truth" is the view
represented by CNN, Fox News and Euronews. The one that is written on the pages of The New York
Times and republished by referring to "an unnamed source in the state Department" (or our very
special Jen Psaki) Washington Post.
I personally am confident that most of as see that despite is growing evidence of innocence
of rebels in the terrible tragedy the rest of the world these days and hours sees and hears
another, "alternative" hypothesis only.
"Civilized world" talk about "persuasive evidence" of the guilt of the Russian Federation
and the rebels of Donbass. Of evidence, however, is weak and contradictive. But it does not
matter. If you repeat a lie clearly and firmly, with honest eyes on a brave face of various and
sundry talking heads let's say one thousand times - people will say it's the fact; that it is
the axiom based on which events need to interpreted. This isan all trick but it works. "Why,
everybody knows about it", "all about this and they say".
This basic factor here is the power of PR. It is like artillery in was and as Napoleon noted
God is firmly on the side of those with better artillery. Repetition lead to adoption of
information and gradually a person begins to perceive it as his/her own point of view.
Especially if the same information is provided by the whole spectrum of media outlets - TV,
radio, Internet, and newspapers.
The average American, European, Japanese or Australian are brainwashed and belave that the
rebels robbed the dead people on the aircraft and then cash credit card dead in Russia. While
adding sure that this is "Russian rebels." As these "Russian rebels" learn or pick up in the
open field access codes, passwords to the cards are for some reason forgotten. And why? In a
democratic and free world video information rules and does not require any critical thinking:
many of wisdom is much grief...
In each of the first CNN necessarily adds that "Russia is hampered the investigation", but
it owes "effective and really help Ukraine," and that it "remained days or even hours, to show
good will".
How can "interfere" investigation on foreign territory nobody elaborates. And why...
everything is clear.
Then this phantasmagoria was added to the story of the companies Dutch and Malay over which
bogumiles... and again refrain is "Russian".
From the first day of Maidan in the focus of the world media was not Ukraine, and Russia -
all of us. Saying "Russia", "Russian" we have formed a new image in the eyes of the whole
world". First it was the image of aggressor, now it is the image of criminal, terrorist. Not
only conqueror, but the murderer.
And we are from the last bum up to the first person in the state did not understand, did not
want to understand that our actions, words, "signals" nothing depends on it. Because no matter
what he says and does Putin. It is important that will show and tell CNN.
Imagine that you are playing chess. On the table is a chess Board, the figures are placed in
the proper order. You sit down and make a move, then another. All as it should be. And your
opponent starts to move the pieces in random order. Then do sweeps them away from the Board and
yells at the whole audience that he won, and you're a cheater and a crook, but when you open
your mouth begins to beat you Board on the head.
So even if the Kremlin together wore embroidered shirts and jumped around the flag "right
sector, the world would have seen more. That will show and tell him free and NeroLive media.
That's why I did not believe and do not believe that our "restraint" someone and something to
"keep" and anybody, and I will convince.
We talked about the inhumanity, the horrors of the moods of Nazism in Ukraine elites in the
US and Europe. Told those who everyone knows and understands. And who simply don't care. This
same "Russians" harness, hammer, rape, blow up, shoot... the "Russian barbarians", not
"civilized people".
Maidan created the project "Banderovskiy-oligarachat" in Ukraine" and far right nationists
were allowed to do this by the west and after the victory pumped hatred to Russia to the skies.
To suspteinit they badly need a flase flag operation like MH17 to present Russians as the
monsters.
Unfortunately Russia was caught by this false flag operation with hands down and initially
tired to play by the rules of the normal world. But that faith that the West will dela tih
Russia bases on common rules applicable in notmal world fell a few days ago from a height of 10
km and shattered into many tiny fragments.
Ukraine IMHO originally I wrote about this in March, April, may and not designed it as a
trap. It might be an unfortunate incident due to decrepit state of Ukrainian air defense forces
(but the question why they moved them to this area remain in this case unanswered). But as soon
the shooing happened the plan emerge to blame it on Russia. To present it as an act of genocide
by Russian mercenaries.
But most importantly, it was to become a stage on which the imagies of the wreckage were
used to project the horror and disgust on Russia. They want to punish, to destroy us any cost
and any methods from economic to military.
We tried to convince ourselves of the last already strength (and many still do)that any -
even the most secret of our intervention, give a reason for the aggression against us. As if it
were a "pretext" for example, you cannot create a virtual, on the computer and then show around
the world. Or not to create artificially: blowing up the plane, the train, the city, nuclear
will dance...
Remember, as Secretary Powell was shaking in the UN powder with Siberian ulcer" from Saddam.
"The plague" was then washing powder. The country was bombed to the stage of democracy, and
Powell... apologized sparingly in his memoirs.
Remember about the plots of terrible Serbian concentration camps in 1994, in Srebrenica.
It's people came out in Europe on the streets and demanded to bomb, to punish, to stop. When
the "bombed, punished, stopped, it became clear that terrible place belonged... to Bosnian
Muslims of Izetbegovica, and dying people were just Serb prisoners. At that time anybody
especially did not even apologize.
Finally, remember about the shocking footage of atrocities troops Gaddafi, killing women,
children and the elderly. Already when Gaddafi was executed so that the footage was dashed
against this background, and Libya drowned in real blood, it turned out that all the
"atrocities" were shot in Qatar at a local Studio. Filmed venerable Hollywood Directors "at the
request of the sheikhs".
Why the attack with "Boeing". No, this is not an excuse to enter NATO troops (it different
enough to sign a bilateral agreement on military assistance, and then to show images of the
"Russian occupation of Kyiv"). This is a PR-move, information technology.
In the history blown up with "Boeing" are three possible answers, but the whole world hears
only one - it blew up "Russians" militias and the Russian Federation, we all are responsible
for that. No matter what the investigation has just begun, which is not examined a "black
boxes". Tube Powell is already lying on the table Obama, and the "free media" ready to show
people the terrible Serbian concentration camp".
Russian experts have already talked about all the falsifications. Posted we have trumps,
evidence. Only the world could see and hear more. About "Russian", nadrugalas over the dead and
robbed them. And about the "Russian" the terrorists of Donbass.
The testimony of our experts, Ministers, diplomats referred to as "doubtful" and "require
additional verification". Brad Avakov, screeching Poroshenko and all the hysteria over the
possessed Yatseniuk called "serious" and "convincing" evidence. It's hard, it's really not want
to believe we are living by the rules that don't exist. But it is a reality. And other reality
and never will.
The verdict is still pending, but already discussed future sanctions and made the first
proposal for "punishing Russia". Began policy - real and cynical, as usual.
What will be after the judgment has already announced the verdict?
Kiev junta now at the level of negotiations with heads of state and official requests of the
international organization requires to recognize the militias and their educated patterns -
terrorist network. As soon as the version on the guilt of the rebels is recognized by the
Western countries, LNR and DND declared outside the law from the point of view of the
international law.
Then Ukraine will likely together with one of the permanent members of the UN security
Council (USA, France or the United Kingdom) requests to enter into the conflict zone "blue
helmets of the United Nations, but not for peace, and for "police" transactions - by analogy
with African countries, where the UN staff often help governments to disarm or destroy
terrorist groups. No "cultivation and separation of the parties in such cases is not
performed.
The composition of the police corps, representatives of Russia, as we all understanding,
will not turn on. We now state - sponsor and accomplice of terrorists." As Iran, for
example.
How many will vote for our country - I don't know and guess not want. If you support a
resolution sadly, the South-East will be cleared by the Ukrainian guards and legalized under
the UN flag armies of Western countries. Around the Crimea they will also be created land and
then Maritime cordon.
If you use the right of veto, the world media will announce that we are "proved" his guilt
and continue to cover terrorists and murderers".
Sanctions against Russia in any of these scenarios would multiply and they will be really
ambitious, hard and long. States sponsoring terrorism "South stream" is not build and Mistral
they do not sell. And we are so seriously to sanctions not prepared, more talked about it on
TV. Of course, we will survive, but we have very hard and difficult.
Ukraine will begin to arm to the teeth as she bids to join NATO despite the fact that NATO
Charter prohibits to NATO countries with unsolved territorial problems from joining. They will
assign the status of associate member bloc.
But nothing is finished. Because first we were framed as aggressors. And the rest of the
world believed. Now we were framed as terrorists. And as soon as the "civilized world" would
believe it will become a logical last move: to put us beasts.
"It remains to figure out how to save the current US administration, while avoiding a world
war
"the Plane was shot down by Ukrainians, shot down by accident, there will be no
investigation, no one needs it
in the blog print version
The expert debate about Boeing will now be about how many demons can fit on the tip of a
needle. Everyone is already clear, it remains to figure out how to save the current US
administration, while avoiding a world war.
All the latest news about the investigation of the disaster over the Donbass say only one
thing: everything is clear, but the problems are still ahead.
The main theses are as follows: the plane was shot down by Ukrainians, shot down by accident,
there will be no investigation, no one needs it. I'll explain in more detail.
A lot has been said about the information war: the Americans started it, and they are now
out of it, sadly. There is no point in sorting through the array of objective evidence –
we must give the American side the opportunity to get out of all this with honor, because if
the United States does not succeed, we will all again face the threat of total war.
One
Never and under no circumstances will the Ukrainian side make public its means of objective
control, if they exist at all. Most likely, they have already been destroyed. Recognition of
the randomness of the shot – however it may be classified-is the last chance for the US
to get out of the dirty Ukrainian swamp. Yes, an accident, it happens in war. But it needs to
be explained to a Western audience.
And if it is impossible to understand, then you just have to remember: the Ukrainian army
shoots where it wants and what it wants to objects. And sometimes nowhere at all.
Let me remind you that in old Yugoslavia for a long time hunted for the officers of the
Serbian artillery, which with a rare drunk once (!) shot in the direction of Croatian
Dubrovnik. They were found ten years later and sent to the Hague. Why? Because the Croatian
side in time declared everywhere where reached, including UNESCO in which list the
city-monument Dubrovnik is entered, about atrocities of the Serbian artillery.
Two
Yes, we are all here at the level of unfunny jokes know that the Ukrainian rocket, if you send
it to the plane, will definitely fly to the tree. And vice versa. For those who were born and
raised in the Soviet Union, this is a given. But the Westerner has to prove it and explain it.
He, a Westerner, used to think that if a guy could speak APE English fluently, even if he had a
strong accent, he was still our local guy. So it was with Saakashvili and Yushchenko. They were
also married to Western ladies. And then with Yatsenyuk Turchynov, tied to both the American
sect. They're twice their own.
The guy from the West used to think that if the missile system is put on combat duty, it is
worth something. He can not explain that for twenty-three years, the Ukrainian army conducted
only one air defense exercise – in 2001. And it ended up being shot down over the Black
sea by a Russian plane. After that, no (!) and never (!) there were no exercises in
Ukraine.
Three
References to the war in South Ossetia, in which it was the Ukrainian crews of "Buks" perfectly
proved themselves by shooting down four Russian objects under the Georgian obscene hooting,
also do not work. Georgians with great difficulty found across Ukraine two crews for all the
same "Buks", whose commanders of calculations were Americans of Polish origin.
Most of these brave Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners after the war 08.08.08 died under unclear
circumstances, and the survivors were drunk (the city of Stryi, Lviv region, the former air
defense base of the Carpathian military district of the USSR armed forces). And no one has
tried to train the new crews as unnecessary.
Inventory of missiles, by the way, no one held, and it did not make sense, because the missiles
were sold right and left, and that is especially sinful-it is to the left, that is, to
countries that the same US declare "outcasts". Target capture guidance system-a complex thing,
" Buk " is able to simultaneously conduct up to 24 goals, and it is not clear what exactly saw
on the radar specific lad.
Four
The Boeing could give additional signals. It could be untried equipment, which will now be
difficult to admit to the Malaysian airline.
Even if the "Boeing" shone an additional beacon-it could cause the launch of the rocket. And
there were several objects on the radar that were moving towards the war zone – here a
spontaneous launch of a missile is more than possible. During the cold war, passenger planes
were very often used for reconnaissance purposes, loading them with photographic equipment.
This, of course, is not our case, and the times are quite different – satellites fly with
impunity, but still no one has yet shown how perfect was the plane itself, its crew and strange
course.
Five
By the way, the base of American drones working for the Kiev government is located in Kanatovo
near Dnepropetrovsk, just in the area of the flight of the "Boeing". This is an old abandoned
Soviet air force base of those that grew sunflowers by the end of the 90's.
But recently there arrived Americans, all rebuilt, and now this former collective farm field is
called the 66th separate brigade of the air force of Ukraine, although from the Ukrainian there
are only signs and dogs. Live there American military, and are based only American drones, of
which two have already been shot down. The first – in the spring on Perekop Russian
fighter, the second-over Donetsk militia, and it almost entirely fell into their hands.
For the United States, the explanation of all that has happened is a kind of unintentional
accident, or even better-the synergy of many accidents-almost the only way to calmly and
technically get out of the game.
Technically, you just need to "chat" for a couple of weeks. And then the evidence from the
"black boxes" will not be so relevant, and in General the whole story will be erased from
memory, perhaps against the background of other circumstances.
Six
But it will not be possible to talk about the circumstances of what is happening in Novorossiya
at all. Many found this place on the map. Many began to watch the news. And there, for example,
the tone of CNN correspondents radically changed after they got access to Lugansk and Donetsk
on the tail of Malaysian representatives.
No Western journalist had been in the combat zone for three months, and now they were
impartially reporting live that civilians were being killed, that heavy artillery fire was
being fired from Ukrainian positions on residential areas, and, most interestingly, the
presenters in the Studio never interrupted them. And this on CNN and Foxnews do at times. But
now the words are accompanied by a picture of the bodies of apparently civilians torn apart.
And just like that, even Christian Amanpour won't interrupt anyone.
Seven
Most likely, it is the discussion of the set of accidents that led to the missile salvo that
will soon become dominant. A half-trained or even never-learned APE with a grenade sat at the
controls. She didn't identify the objects.
The fighter that accompanied (or whatever he was doing with this "Boeing", did not push out of
the track?), seeing the rocket, was forced to make the same emergency evasion maneuver, which
indicates the objective data of Russian surveillance-he abruptly went up to the limit and even
beyond the height.
Something on several radars, presumably defined as a "small-sized, high-speed flying object",
that is, a fighter, not a UFO, made a routine maneuver to evade a missile salvo from the
ground. So taught in the Soviet flight schools. All Ukrainian pilots came out of the same
greatcoat.
Scholastic dispute about whether it was exactly " Buk " or the old C-200, which is also the
same 25 years of vodka brewed, does not make sense. Good people who are leading this highly
professional dispute, come from some ideal circumstances, forgetting that all this-Ukraine.
The salvo was obviously spontaneous, and this-again-is the only thing that will save the West
now.
* * *
But we will never hear or see this, because no one will drown Poroshenko now, he will drown
himself in two or three months. The American security service is forced to "keep a face",
because Barack Obama first said, and then there was objective tracking data, and how to get out
of this – no one knows.
Further expert debate will be about how many demons can fit on the tip of the needle. Everyone
is already clear, it remains to figure out how to save the current US administration, while
avoiding a world war.
It is in the interest of world peace to ensure that the investigation into the deaths of nearly
300 people is delayed as long as possible. And then it was forgotten.
Is it possible? Yes, perhaps. We did not see the unfortunate relatives storming the building of
Schiphol airport, although relatively recently the same crowd almost demolished the government
of Malaysia because of the unknown where the disappeared similar "Boeing".
European governments can make sure that the relatives of the victims stop asking questions.
Although they, those who lost loved ones, could be the driving force of the entire
investigation. It's very cynical, Yes. But what other choice is there?."It remains to figure
out how to save the current US administration, while avoiding a world war "the Plane was shot
down by Ukrainians, shot down by accident, there will be no investigation, no one needs it
in the blog print version
The expert debate about Boeing will now be about how many demons can fit on the tip of a
needle. Everyone is already clear, it remains to figure out how to save the current US
administration, while avoiding a world war.
All the latest news about the investigation of the disaster over the Donbass say only one
thing: everything is clear, but the problems are still ahead.
The main theses are as follows: the plane was shot down by Ukrainians, shot down by accident,
there will be no investigation, no one needs it. I'll explain in more detail.
A lot has been said about the information war: the Americans started it, and they are now out
of it, sadly. There is no point in sorting through the array of objective evidence – we
must give the American side the opportunity to get out of all this with honor, because if the
United States does not succeed, we will all again face the threat of total war.
One
Never and under no circumstances will the Ukrainian side make public its means of objective
control, if they exist at all. Most likely, they have already been destroyed. Recognition of
the randomness of the shot – however it may be classified-is the last chance for the US
to get out of the dirty Ukrainian swamp. Yes, an accident, it happens in war. But it needs to
be explained to a Western audience.
And if it is impossible to understand, then you just have to remember: the Ukrainian army
shoots where it wants and what it wants to objects. And sometimes nowhere at all.
Let me remind you that in old Yugoslavia for a long time hunted for the officers of the Serbian
artillery, which with a rare drunk once (!) shot in the direction of Croatian Dubrovnik. They
were found ten years later and sent to the Hague. Why? Because the Croatian side in time
declared everywhere where reached, including UNESCO in which list the city-monument Dubrovnik
is entered, about atrocities of the Serbian artillery.
Two
Yes, we are all here at the level of unfunny jokes know that the Ukrainian rocket, if you send
it to the plane, will definitely fly to the tree. And vice versa. For those who were born and
raised in the Soviet Union, this is a given. But the Westerner has to prove it and explain it.
He, a Westerner, used to think that if a guy could speak APE English fluently, even if he had a
strong accent, he was still our local guy. So it was with Saakashvili and Yushchenko. They were
also married to Western ladies. And then with Yatsenyuk Turchynov, tied to both the American
sect. They're twice their own.
The guy from the West used to think that if the missile system is put on combat duty, it is
worth something. He can not explain that for twenty-three years, the Ukrainian army conducted
only one air defense exercise – in 2001. And it ended up being shot down over the Black
sea by a Russian plane. After that, no (!) and never (!) there were no exercises in
Ukraine.
Three
References to the war in South Ossetia, in which it was the Ukrainian crews of "Buks" perfectly
proved themselves by shooting down four Russian objects under the Georgian obscene hooting,
also do not work. Georgians with great difficulty found across Ukraine two crews for all the
same "Buks", whose commanders of calculations were Americans of Polish origin.
Most of these brave Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners after the war 08.08.08 died under unclear
circumstances, and the survivors were drunk (the city of Stryi, Lviv region, the former air
defense base of the Carpathian military district of the USSR armed forces). And no one has
tried to train the new crews as unnecessary.
Inventory of missiles, by the way, no one held, and it did not make sense, because the missiles
were sold right and left, and that is especially sinful-it is to the left, that is, to
countries that the same US declare "outcasts". Target capture guidance system-a complex thing,
" Buk " is able to simultaneously conduct up to 24 goals, and it is not clear what exactly saw
on the radar specific lad.
Four
The Boeing could give additional signals. It could be untried equipment, which will now be
difficult to admit to the Malaysian airline.
Even if the "Boeing" shone an additional beacon-it could cause the launch of the rocket. And
there were several objects on the radar that were moving towards the war zone – here a
spontaneous launch of a missile is more than possible. During the cold war, passenger planes
were very often used for reconnaissance purposes, loading them with photographic equipment.
This, of course, is not our case, and the times are quite different – satellites fly with
impunity, but still no one has yet shown how perfect was the plane itself, its crew and strange
course.
Five
By the way, the base of American drones working for the Kiev government is located in Kanatovo
near Dnepropetrovsk, just in the area of the flight of the "Boeing". This is an old abandoned
Soviet air force base of those that grew sunflowers by the end of the 90's.
But recently there arrived Americans, all rebuilt, and now this former collective farm field is
called the 66th separate brigade of the air force of Ukraine, although from the Ukrainian there
are only signs and dogs. Live there American military, and are based only American drones, of
which two have already been shot down. The first – in the spring on Perekop Russian
fighter, the second-over Donetsk militia, and it almost entirely fell into their hands.
For the United States, the explanation of all that has happened is a kind of unintentional
accident, or even better-the synergy of many accidents-almost the only way to calmly and
technically get out of the game.
Technically, you just need to "chat" for a couple of weeks. And then the evidence from the
"black boxes" will not be so relevant, and in General the whole story will be erased from
memory, perhaps against the background of other circumstances.
Six
But it will not be possible to talk about the circumstances of what is happening in Novorossiya
at all. Many found this place on the map. Many began to watch the news. And there, for example,
the tone of CNN correspondents radically changed after they got access to Lugansk and Donetsk
on the tail of Malaysian representatives.
No Western journalist had been in the combat zone for three months, and now they were
impartially reporting live that civilians were being killed, that heavy artillery fire was
being fired from Ukrainian positions on residential areas, and, most interestingly, the
presenters in the Studio never interrupted them. And this on CNN and Foxnews do at times. But
now the words are accompanied by a picture of the bodies of apparently civilians torn apart.
And just like that, even Christian Amanpour won't interrupt anyone.
Seven
Most likely, it is the discussion of the set of accidents that led to the missile salvo that
will soon become dominant. A half-trained or even never-learned APE with a grenade sat at the
controls. She didn't identify the objects.
The fighter that accompanied (or whatever he was doing with this "Boeing", did not push out of
the track?), seeing the rocket, was forced to make the same emergency evasion maneuver, which
indicates the objective data of Russian surveillance-he abruptly went up to the limit and even
beyond the height.
Something on several radars, presumably defined as a "small-sized, high-speed flying object",
that is, a fighter, not a UFO, made a routine maneuver to evade a missile salvo from the
ground. So taught in the Soviet flight schools. All Ukrainian pilots came out of the same
greatcoat.
Scholastic dispute about whether it was exactly " Buk " or the old C-200, which is also the
same 25 years of vodka brewed, does not make sense. Good people who are leading this highly
professional dispute, come from some ideal circumstances, forgetting that all this-Ukraine.
The salvo was obviously spontaneous, and this-again-is the only thing that will save the West
now.
* * *
But we will never hear or see this, because no one will drown Poroshenko now, he will drown
himself in two or three months. The American security service is forced to "keep a face",
because Barack Obama first said, and then there was objective tracking data, and how to get out
of this – no one knows.
Further expert debate will be about how many demons can fit on the tip of the needle. Everyone
is already clear, it remains to figure out how to save the current US administration, while
avoiding a world war.
It is in the interest of world peace to ensure that the investigation into the deaths of nearly
300 people is delayed as long as possible. And then it was forgotten.
Is it possible? Yes, perhaps. We did not see the unfortunate relatives storming the building of
Schiphol airport, although relatively recently the same crowd almost demolished the government
of Malaysia because of the unknown where the disappeared similar "Boeing".
European governments can make sure that the relatives of the victims stop asking questions.
Although they, those who lost loved ones, could be the driving force of the entire
investigation. It's very cynical, Yes. But what other choice is there?
"... Bellingcat is an alleged group of amateur on-line researchers who have spent years shilling for the U.S. instigated war against the Syrian government, blaming the Douma chemical attack and others on the Assad government, and for the anti-Russian propaganda connected to, among other things, the Skripal poisoning case in England, and the downing of flight MH17 plane in Ukraine. ..."
"... The Intercept , along with its parent company First Look Media, recently hosted a workshop for pro-war, Google-funded organization Bellingcat in New York. The workshop, which cost $2,500 per person to attend and lasted five days, aimed to instruct participants in how to perform investigations using "open source" tools -- with Bellingcat's past, controversial investigations for use as case studies Thus, while The Intercept has long publicly promoted itself as an anti-interventionist and progressive media outlet, it is becoming clearer that – largely thanks to its ties to Omidyar – it is increasingly an organization that has more in common with Bellingcat, a group that launders NATO and U.S. propaganda and disguises it as "independent" and "investigative journalism." ..."
In the 1920s, the influential American intellectual Walter Lippman argued that the average
person was incapable of seeing or understanding the world clearly and needed to be guided by
experts behind the social curtain. In a number of books he laid out the theoretical foundations
for the practical work of Edward Bernays , who developed "public relations" (aka propaganda) to
carry out this task for the ruling elites. Bernays had honed his skills while working as a
propagandist for the United States during World War I, and after the war he set himself up as a
public relations counselor in New York City.
There is a fascinating exchange at the beginning of Adam Curtis's documentary, The
Century of Self , where Bernays, then nearly 100 years old but still very sharp, reveals
his manipulative mindset and that of so many of those who have followed in his wake. He says
the reason he couldn't call his new business "propaganda" was because the Germans had given
propaganda a "bad name," and so he came up with the euphemism "public relations." He then adds
that "if you could use it [i.e. propaganda] for war, you certainly could use it for peace." Of
course, he never used PR for peace but just to manipulate public opinion (he helped engineer
the CIA coup against the democratically elected Arbenz government in Guatemala in 1954 with
fake news broadcasts). He says "the Germans gave propaganda a bad name," not Bernays and the
United States with their vast campaign of lies, mainly aimed at the American people to get
their support for going to a war they opposed (think weapons of mass destruction). He sounds
proud of his war propaganda work that resounded to his credit since it led to support for the
"war to end all wars" and subsequently to a hit movie about WWI , Yankee Doodle Dandy
, made in 1942 to promote another war, since the first one somehow didn't achieve its lofty
goal.
As Bernays has said in his book Propaganda ,
The American motion picture is the greatest unconscious carrier of propaganda in the world
today.
He was a propagandist to the end. I suspect most viewers of the film are taken in by these
softly spoken words of an old man sipping a glass of wine at a dinner table with a woman who is
asking him questions. I have shown this film to hundreds of students and none has noticed his
legerdemain. It is an example of the sort of hocus-pocus I will be getting to shortly, the sly
insertion into seemingly liberal or matter-of-fact commentary of statements that imply a
different story. The placement of convincing or confusing disingenuous ingredients into a truth
sandwich – for Bernays knew that the bread of truth is essential to conceal untruth.
In the following years, Bernays, Lippman, and their ilk were joined by social "scientists,"
psychologists, and sundry others intent on making a sham out of the idea of democracy by
developing strategies and techniques for the engineering of social consensus consonant with the
wishes of the ruling classes. Their techniques of propaganda developed exponentially with the
development of technology, the creation of the CIA, its infiltration of all the major media,
and that agency's courting of what the CIA official Cord Meyer called in the 1950s "the
compatible left," having already had the right in its pocket. Today most people are, as is
said, "wired," and they get their information from the electronic media that is mostly
controlled by giant corporations in cahoots with government propagandists. Ask yourself: Has
the power of the oligarchic, permanent warfare state with its propaganda and spy networks
increased or decreased over your lifetime. The answer is obvious: the average people that
Lippman and Bernays trashed are losing and the ruling elites are winning.
This is not just because powerful propagandists are good at controlling so-called "average"
people's thinking, but, perhaps more importantly, because they are also adept – probably
more so – at confusing or directing the thinking of those who consider themselves above
average, those who still might read a book or two or have the concentration to read multiple
articles that offer different perspectives on a topic. This is what some call the professional
and intellectual classes, perhaps 15-20 % of the population, most of whom are not the ruling
elites but their employees and sometimes their mouthpieces. It is this segment of the
population that considers itself "informed," but the information they imbibe is often sprinkled
with bits of misdirection, both intentional and not, that beclouds their understanding of
important public matters but leaves them with the false impression that they are in the
know.
Recently I have noticed a group of interconnected examples of how this group of the
population that exerts influence incommensurate with their numbers has contributed to the
blurring of lines between fact and fiction. Within this group there are opinion makers who are
often journalists, writers, and cultural producers of some sort or other, and then the larger
number of the intellectual or schooled class who follow their opinions. This second group then
passes on their received opinions to those who look up to them.
There is a notorious propaganda outfit called Bellingcat , started by an unemployed
Englishman named Eliot Higgins, that has been funded by The Atlantic Council, a think-tank with
deep ties to the U.S. government, NATO, war manufacturers, and their allies, and the National
Endowment for Democracy (NED), another infamous U.S. front organization heavily involved in
so-called color revolution regime change operations all around the world, that has just won the
International Emmy Award for best documentary. The film with the Orwellian title, Bellingcat: Truth in a Post-Truth World, received its Emmy at a recent ceremony in New
York City.
Bellingcat is an alleged group of amateur on-line researchers who have spent years
shilling for the U.S. instigated war against the Syrian government, blaming the Douma chemical
attack and others on the Assad government, and for the anti-Russian propaganda connected to,
among other things, the Skripal poisoning case in England, and the downing of flight MH17 plane
in Ukraine.
It has been lauded by the corporate mainstream media in the west. Its support for
the equally fraudulent White Helmets (also funded by the US and the UK) in Syria has also been
praised by the western corporate media while being dissected as propaganda by many excellent
independent journalists such as Eva Bartlett, Vanessa Beeley, Catte Black, among others. It's
had its work skewered by the likes of Seymour Hersh and MIT professor Theodore Postol, and its
US government connections pointed out by many others, including Ben Norton and Max Blumenthal
at The Gray Zone. And now we have the mainstream media's wall of silence on the leaks from the
Organization for the Prohibition on Chemical Weapons (OPCW) concerning the Douma chemical
attack and the doctoring of their report that led to the illegal U.S. bombing of Syria in the
spring of 2018. Bellingcat was at the forefront of providing justification for such bombing,
and now the journalists Peter Hitchens, Tareq Harrad (who recently resigned from Newsweek after accusing the publication of suppressing his revelations about the OPCW
scandal) and others are fighting an uphill battle to get the truth out.
Yet Bellingcat: Truth in a Post-Truth World won the Emmy , fulfilling Bernays'
point about films being the greatest unconscious carriers of propaganda in the world today.
Who presented the Emmy Award to the film makers, but none other than the rebel journalist
Chris Hedges . Why he did so, I don't know. But that he did so clearly sends a message to those
who follow his work and trust him that it's okay to give a major cultural award to a propaganda
outfit. But then, perhaps he doesn't consider Bellingcat to be that.
Nor, one presumes, does The Intercept , the billionaire Pierre Omidyar owned
publication associated with Glen Greenwald and Jeremy Scahill, and also read by many
progressive-minded people. The Intercept that earlier this year disbanded the small
team that was tasked with reviewing and releasing more of the massive trove of documents they
received from Edward Snowden six years ago, a minute number of which have ever been released or
probably ever will be. As
Whitney Webb pointed out , last year The Intercept hosted a workshop for
Bellingcat. She wrote:
The Intercept , along with its parent company First Look Media, recently
hosted a workshop for pro-war, Google-funded organization Bellingcat in New York. The
workshop, which
cost $2,500 per person to attend and lasted five days, aimed to instruct participants in
how to perform investigations using "open source" tools -- with Bellingcat's past, controversial
investigations for use as case studies Thus, while The Intercept has long
publicly promoted itself as an anti-interventionist and progressive media outlet, it is
becoming clearer that – largely thanks to its ties to Omidyar – it is
increasingly an organization that has more in common with Bellingcat, a group that launders
NATO and U.S. propaganda and disguises it as "independent" and "investigative
journalism."
Then we have Jefferson Morley , the editor of The Deep State, former Washington
Post journalist, and JFK assassination researcher, who has written a praiseworthy review of the
Bellingcat film and who supports Bellingcat. "In my experience, Bellingcat is credible," he
writes in an Alternet article, "Bellingcat
documentary has the pace and plot of a thriller."
Morley has also just written an article for Counterpunch –
"Why the Douma Chemical Attack Wasn't a 'Managed Massacre'" – in which he disputes
the claim that the April 7, 2018 attack in the Damascus suburb was a false flag operation
carried out by Assad's opponents. "I do not see any evidence proving that Douma was a false
flag incident," he writes in this article that is written in a style that leaves one guessing
as to what exactly he is saying. It sounds convincing unless one concentrates, and then his
double messages emerge. Yet it is the kind of article that certain "sophisticated" left-wing
readers might read and feel is insightful. But then Morley, who has written considerably about
the CIA, edits a website that advertises itself as "the thinking person's portal to the world
of secret government," and recently had an exchange with former CIA Director John Brennan where
"Brennan put a friendly finger on my chest," said in February 2017, less than a month after
Trump was sworn in as president, that:
With a docile Republican majority in Congress and a demoralized Democratic Party in
opposition, the leaders of the Deep State are the most -- perhaps the only -- credible check
in Washington on what Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) calls Trump's "
wrecking ball presidency ."
Is it any wonder that some people might be a bit confused?
"I know what you're thinking about," said Tweedledum; "but it isn't so, nohow."
"Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it
would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."
As a final case in point, there is a recent book by Stephen Kinzer , Poisoner in Chief:
Sidney Gottlieb And The CIA Search For Mind Control, t he story of the chemist known as
Dr. Death who ran the CIA's MK-ULTRA mind control project, using LSD, torture, electric shock
therapy, hypnosis, etc.; developed sadistic methods of torture still used in black sites around
the world; and invented various ingenious techniques for assassination, many of which were
aimed at Fidel Castro. Gottlieb was responsible for brutal prison and hospital experiments and
untold death and suffering inflicted on all sorts of innocent people. His work was depraved in
the deepest sense; he worked with Nazis who experimented on Jews despite being Jewish
himself.
Kinzer writes in depth about this man who considered himself a patriot and a spiritual
person – a humane torturer and killer. It is an eye-opening book for anyone who does not
know about Gottlieb, who gave the CIA the essential tools they use in their "organized crime"
activities around the world – in the words of Douglass Valentine, the author of The
CIA as Organized Crime and The Phoenix Program . Kinzer's book is good history on
Gottlieb; however, he doesn't venture into the present activities of the CIA and Gottlieb's
patriotic followers, who no doubt exist and go about their business in secret.
After recounting in detail the sordid history of Gottlieb's secret work that is nauseating
to read about, Kinzer leaves the reader with these strange words:
Gottlieb was not a sadist, but he might well have been . Above all he was an instrument of
history. Understanding him is a deeply disturbing way of understanding ourselves.
What possibly could this mean? Not a sadist? An instrument of history? Understanding
ourselves? These few sentences, dropped out of nowhere, pull the rug out from under what is
generally an illuminating history and what seems like a moral indictment. This language is pure
mystification.
Kinzer also concludes that because Gottlieb said so, the CIA failed in their efforts to
develop methods of mind control and ended MK-ULTRA's experiments long ago. Why would he believe
the word of a man who personified the agency he worked for: a secret liar? He writes,
When Sydney Gottlieb brough MK-ULTRA to its end in the early 1960s, he told his CIA
superiors that he had found no reliable way to wipe away memory, make people abandon their
consciences, or commit crimes and then forget them.
As for those who might think otherwise, Kinzer suggests they have vivid imaginations and are
caught up in conspiracy thinking: "This [convincing others that the CIA had developed methods
of mind control when they hadn't] is Sydney Gottlieb's most unexpected legacy," he asserts. He
says this although Richard Helms, the CIA Director, destroyed all MK-Ultra records. He says
that Allen Dulles, Gottlieb, and Helms themselves were caught up in a complete fantasy about
mind control because they had seen too many movies and read too many books; mind control was
impossible, a failure, a myth, he maintains. It is the stuff of popular culture, entertainment.
In an interview with Chris Hedges, interestingly posted by Jefferson Morley at his website, The Deep State , Hedges agrees with Kinzer. Gottlieb, Dulles, et al. were all deluded.
Mind control was impossible. You couldn't create a Manchurian Candidate; by implication,
someone like Sirhan Sirhan could not have been programmed to be a fake Manchurian Candidate and
to have no memory of what he did, as he claims. He could not have been mind-controlled by the
CIA to perform his part as the seeming assassin of Senator Robert Kennedy while the real killer
shot RFK from behind. People who think like this should get real.
Furthermore, as is so common in books such as Kinzer's, he repeats the canard that JFK and
RFK knew about and pressured the CIA to assassinate Fidel Castro. This is demonstrably false,
as shown by the Church Committee and the Assassinations Record Review Board, among many others.
That Kinzer takes the word of notorious liars like Richard Helms and the top-level CIA
operative Samuel Halpern is simple incredible, something that is hard to consider a mistake.
Slipped into a truth sandwich, it is devoured and passed on. But it is false. Bullshit meant to
deceive.
But this is how these games are played. If you look carefully, you will see them widely.
Inform, enlighten, while throwing in doubletalk and untruths. The small number of people who
read such books and articles will come away knowing some history that has no current relevance
and being misinformed on other history that does. They will then be in the know, ready to pass
their "wisdom" on to those who care to listen. They will not think they are average.
But they will be mind controlled, and the killer cat will roam freely without a bell, ready
to devour the unsuspecting mice.
Edward Curtin is a writer whose work has appeared widely. He teaches sociology at
Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. His website is http://edwardcurtin.com/
"... With Nordstream II becoming operational, Russia can bypass Ukraine completely in supplying gas to EU countries and Ukraine will only receive enough gas for its own needs. Ukraine becomes a liability to the West as that country continues its slow and agonising collapse. Perhaps in 2020 the Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts may officially declare their independence and apply for inclusion into the Russian Federation, or combine into a new nation. Other adjoining oblasts (Kharkiv?) may follow suit. Transcarpathia oblast in the far west of Ukraine may declare independence and then apply to join Hungary. ..."
Nordstream II should be completed in 2020 in spite of the many handicaps and threats of
sanctions the US has applied against Germany if the pipeline project continues. Its
completion is bound to change the geopolitical landscape in central and eastern Europe
considerably.
With Nordstream II becoming operational, Russia can bypass Ukraine completely in
supplying gas to EU countries and Ukraine will only receive enough gas for its own needs.
Ukraine becomes a liability to the West as that country continues its slow and agonising
collapse. Perhaps in 2020 the Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts may officially declare their
independence and apply for inclusion into the Russian Federation, or combine into a new
nation. Other adjoining oblasts (Kharkiv?) may follow suit. Transcarpathia oblast in the far
west of Ukraine may declare independence and then apply to join Hungary.
Volodymyr Zelensky may not last long as President and is likely to be turfed out in a
coup. Civil war will come again to Ukraine but not in its Russian-speaking east.
Belarus should be monitoring its own southern borders. Maybe crunch-time is coming for
President Lukashenko there as to whether he should align Belarus more closely with Russia or
with the EU instead of trying to get the best of both worlds by playing one against the
other.
My predictions for 2020 are that Ukraine's final collapse and fragmentation will start,
that the use of threats and sanctions continues to isolate the US to its detriment, and that
(maybe, just maybe) the collapse of Ukraine will lead to some of the truth of what actually
happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 becoming public with whistleblowers in the
investigation finally coming forward.
Re Jen @37 "With Nordstream II becoming operational, Russia can bypass Ukraine completely in
supplying gas to EU countries and Ukraine will only receive enough gas for its own needs."
I am hoping this is a bad joke, but perhaps not. I suppose, if true, it will prevent a lot
of Ukrainians from freezing to death this winter. But considering the benefits it will
provide to the Ukro-nazis who hate Russia, I have to wonder about the decision-making process
in Moscow.
Bellingcat's transparency model is similar to the Tor Project's. It lists a bunch of
innocuous, little-known non-profits and human rights-type organizations. To understand who
they and why they'd fund an outfit like Bellingcat takes a lot more digging.
"... Why have we supported Nguema, Karimov, and Kagame but not the ones who are thorns in our sides? The reasons are obvious. It's not the lives of their citizens - it's power for the elite class. We intervene abroad because we want to further the interest of the wealthy. ..."
"... America will always pick and choose the leaders it props up and tears down. It never was and never will be for humanitarian reasons -- that is a clever veil. We denounce ethnic cleansing and then fund it. We call for free elections and then support Pinochet, Stroessner, and Videla. ..."
"... Opposing war is a noble and courageous act, and there will always be smears. Opposing war isn't supporting dictators; it's opposing death and destruction in the service of the wealthy. Never believe what they tell you about why they're sending your kids to die. Never. ..."
Idealistic Realist , Apr 27, 2019 1:24:45 PM |
link
Best analysis by a candidate for POTUS ever:
American foreign policy is not a failure. To comfort themselves, observers often say that our leaders -- presidents, advisors,
generals -- don't know what they're doing. They do know. Their agenda just isn't what we like to imagine it is.
To quote Michael Parenti: "US policy is not filled with contradictions and inconsistencies. It has performed brilliantly
and steadily in the service of those who own most of the world and who want to own all of it."
The vision of our leaders as bunglers, while more accurate than the image of them as valiant public servants, is less accurate
and more rose-tinted than the closest approximation of the truth, which is that they are servants of their class interest.
That is why we go to war.
Those who buy the elite class's foreign policy BS, about the Emmanuel Goldsteins they conjure up every three years, are
fools. Obviously Hussein and Milošević were bad; but "government bad" does not mean we must invade. Wars occur for economic,
not humanitarian, reasons.
Teodoro Obiang Nguema, the president of Equatorial Guinea, is a kleptocrat, murderer, and alleged cannibal. This is
him and his wife with Barack and Michelle Obama.
Islam Karimov, the president of Uzbekistan, was said to have boiled political prisoners to death, massacred hundreds
of prisoners, and made torture an institution. This is him with John Kerry.
Paul Kagame, the president of Rwanda, has been involved in the assassination of political opponents, perpetrated obvious
election fraud, and had his term extended until 2034. This is him with Barack and Michelle Obama.
Why have we supported Nguema, Karimov, and Kagame but not the ones who are thorns in our sides? The reasons are obvious.
It's not the lives of their citizens - it's power for the elite class. We intervene abroad because we want to further the interest
of the wealthy.
America will always pick and choose the leaders it props up and tears down. It never was and never will be for humanitarian
reasons -- that is a clever veil. We denounce ethnic cleansing and then fund it. We call for free elections and then support
Pinochet, Stroessner, and Videla.
Opposing war is a noble and courageous act, and there will always be smears. Opposing war isn't supporting dictators;
it's opposing death and destruction in the service of the wealthy. Never believe what they tell you about why they're sending
your kids to die. Never.
"... As the steward-in-chief of the American empire, Obama continued Bush's Afghanistan and Iraq Wars, and extended his "War on Terror" into Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, and elsewhere in Africa and the Middle East. He also became a terrorist himself and a serial killer, weaponized drones and special ops assassins being his weapons of choice. ..."
Barack Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize -- for not being George W. Bush. This seemed unseemly at the time, but not outrageous.
Seven years later, it seems grotesque.
As the steward-in-chief of the American empire, Obama continued Bush's Afghanistan and Iraq Wars, and extended his "War on Terror"
into Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, and elsewhere in Africa and the Middle East. He also became a terrorist himself and a serial killer, weaponized drones and special ops assassins being his weapons of choice.
ANDREW LEVINE is a Senior Scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, the author most recently of THE AMERICAN IDEOLOGY
(Routledge) and POLITICAL KEY WORDS
(Blackwell) as well as of many other books and articles in political philosophy. His most recent book is
In Bad Faith: What's Wrong With the
Opium of the People . He was a Professor (philosophy) at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and a Research Professor (philosophy)
at the University of Maryland-College Park. He is a contributor to
Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics
of Illusion (AK Press).
My apologies if this has been posted before, but here is a news conference broadcast by
Interfax a few days ago detailing a joint French-Ukrainian journalistic investigation into a
huge money laundering scheme using various shadow banking organizations in Austria and
Switzerland, benefiting Clinton friendly Ukrainian oligarchs and of course the Clinton
Foundation.
The link is short enough to not require re-formatting:
Forgive me for the somewhat redundant post, and again I hope this is not a waste of anyone's
time, but this is the source of the Interfax report I posted just above currently at #56. It
is relevant to the Ukrainegate impeachment fiasco.
The U.S. and lapdog EU/UK media will not touch this with a 10 foot pole.
KYIV. Dec 17 (Interfax-Ukraine) – Ukraine and the United States should investigate
the transfer of $29 million by businessman Victor Pinchuk from Ukraine to the Clinton
Foundation, Ukrainian Member of Parliament (independent) Andriy Derkach has said. According
to him, the investigation should check and establish how the Pinchuk Foundation's
activities were funded; it, among other projects, made a contribution of $29 million to the
Clinton Foundation. "Yesterday, Ukrainian law enforcement agencies registered criminal
proceeding number 12019000000001138. As part of this proceeding, I provided facts that
should be verified and established by the investigation. Establishing these facts will also
help the American side to conduct its own investigation and establish the origin of the
money received by [Hillary] Clinton," Derkach said at a press conferences at
Interfax-Ukraine in Kyiv on Tuesday, December 17.
According to him, it was the independent French online publication Mediapart that first
drew attention to the money withdrawal scheme from Ukraine and Pinchuk's financing of the
Clinton Foundation.
"The general scheme is as follows. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) lent money to
Ukraine in 2015. The same year, Victor Pinchuk's Credit Dnepr [Bank] received UAH 357
million in a National Bank stabilization loan from the IMF's disbursement. Delta Bank was
given a total of UAH 5.110 billion in loans. The banks siphoned the money through Austria's
Meinl Bank into offshore accounts, and further into [the accounts of] the Pinchuk
Foundation. The money siphoning scam was confirmed by a May 2016 ruling by [Kyiv's]
Pechersky court. The total damage from this scam involving other banks is estimated at $800
million. The Pinchuk Foundation transferred $29 million to the Foundation of Clinton, a
future U.S. presidential candidate from the Democratic Party," Derkach said.
started by an unemployed Englishman named Eliot Higgins
Good on him – being able to create a thing that rises to such prominence in such a
short space of time speaks volumes about this Higgins guy's entrepreneurial ability. And if
he wasn't mobbed-up to begin with, he sure as fuck is now – which is a double-
mitzvah (for him).
If he did so starting from being unemployed, then anybody who turned down a job
application from the guy must be kicking themselves. (' Unemployed ' is obviously used
pejoratively in the blockquote; 'Englishman' is purely-descriptive).
.
Also, the entire article accepts Bernays' conclusion, but disagrees as to which objectives
should be pursued.
Bernays' conclusions are hardly controversial: most people are gullible imbeciles .
It's not clear to me how much more empirical evidence we need before that becomes just a
thing that everyone with an IQ above 115 accepts.
So the question then becomes " OK, now what? ".
As usual, the right answer is " Depends " – and not just for those with
bladder control problems.
If you want to do things that are just , exploiting gullible imbeciles would appear
to violate the playing conditions. It would be hors jeu ; not done; just not
cricket .
As the Laconian famously said . " IF ."
For those for whom the 'if' condition returns 'false', it does very little to bleat about
how awful they are. You're not going to cause a little switch in their brain to flick on (or
off?), whereupon they realise the error of their ways and make a conscious decision to leave
the gullible imbeciles unexploited.
It's even unlikely to affect their victims (remember, they're imbeciles) – because
otherwise some infra-marginal imbeciles would have to process their way through quite a bit
of cognitive dissonance, and they're not wired for introspection (or processing).
So the sole real purpose (apart from κάθαρσις
catharsis ) is prophylaxis (προ +
φύλαξις – guarding ). Both good enough aims
obviously the writer is the one who gets the cathartic benefit, but who is going to be on
heightened alert as a result of this Cassandra -ish jeremiad -ing?
Non-imbeciles don't need it; imbeciles won't benefit.
Here's the thing: the gullible imbeciles are going to be exploited by
someone .
.
This is something that people of my persuasion struggle with. It boils down to the
following:
Let's assume that a reprehensible thing exists already, and is unlikely to be overthrown
by my opposition to it. Should I just participate and line my pockets?
The resources used are going to be used whether I participate or not, so it may as well
be me who gets them. After all, I will put them to moral uses – and while inside, I
can do things that are contrary to the interests of the reprehensible thing.
There is no satisfactory counter-argument to that line of reasoning, and yet I reject
it.
Then again: I was dropped on my head as an infant, so YMMV.
@Adrian About Chris Hedges' participation in presenting this award to Bellingcat "News from
Underground" came yesterday up with this:
a friend who knows the background of Chris Hedges' involvement writes that "he was duped
into presenting the Emmy to Bellingcat -- and, from what I hear, he believes it was done
intentionally to smear him."
As this friend is someone I (and many others) quite admire for his integrity and bravery,
and as it's wholly plausible that Hedges would have been set up, I am reserving judgementon
his action, and urge people on this list to do so, too.
@Adrian Hedges would have known who the nominees are just seeing Bellingcat in there and
knowing this is the Emmies well, it's hard to believe otherwise than Hedges is a clever fake as
I have long suspected
Let's recall that Hedges in his previous life was an NYT war correspondent who covered the
Bosnian conflict knowing Yugoslavia quite well from visits there in the 1980s his reports
demonizing Serbs stood out like a sore thumb
I quickly pegged him as a complete liar, like the rest of the MSM propagandists that were
repeating boilerplate canards meant to demonize the hugely successful nation of Yugoslavia
which of course they were trying to tear apart
For instance, 'the Serb-dominated Yugoslavia' was a standard sentence that appeared
literally in every single story repeated ad nauseum literallu dozens of times a day and clearly
meant to convince the reader that dismantling the progressive and ethnically harmonious nation
of Yugoslavia was somehow the right thing to do
But it was pure bullshit anyone who had ever been to Yugoslavia would instantly recognize
that as a 'WTF ?'
There is much much more in Hedges' closet
But then, miraculously, he had a 'Road to Damascus' moment a few years later [we are
supposed to believe] and somehow became a 'good guy'
Bullshit Mr. Curtin nails the sly method here exactly
[The] bread of truth is essential to conceal untruth.
An excellent article
PS Counterpunch is a complete bullshit rag that has been coopted completely Plutocrat Pierre
Omidyar and his little 'Intercept' outfit is similarly continuing in the footsteps of prior
plutocrat propagandists like the Ford foundation Rockefellers and others
The ultimate goal is controlling YOU they need you to be obedient and believing and not ask
any questions
@FB Haven't looked at Bellingcat (not exactly a sophisticated operation if you ever worked
in the ad business) since MH 17 and Putin's Syria pacification, but upon reading this article
it became clear that Hedges must be either an idiot or deeply embedded.
One doesn't exclude the other, of course. The uneducated public wouldn't need to catch up on
so much information, and still get a great head start if they ever found out wtf "cui bono"
even means – but that's not gonna happen.
It's just not how the human mind works.
The blogger Eliot Higgins made waves early in the decade by covering the war in Syria from a
laptop in his apartment in Leicester, England, while caring for his infant daughter. In 2014,
he founded Bellingcat, an open-source news outlet that has grown to include roughly a dozen
staff members, with an office in The Hague. Mr. Higgins attributed his skill not to any special
knowledge of international conflicts or digital data, but to the hours he had spent playing
video games , which, he said, gave him the idea that any mystery can be cracked.
...
Bellingcat journalists have spread the word about their techniques in seminars attended by
journalists and law-enforcement officials. Along with grants from groups like the Open Society
Foundations, founded by George Soros, the seminars are a significant source of revenue for
Bellingcat, a nonprofit organization.
Looks like Brown Noser Eliot Higgins and his Bellingcrap organisation may have finally met
their match in a real investigative journalist, Dilyana Gaytandzhieva, who (some of us may
recall) has done sterling work in tracing movements of weapons from the Balkan countries to
Turkey and Azerbaijan with their ultimate destination being Syria to be used by ISIS jihadis,
and for which she was sacked by her newspaper employer in Bulgaria.
Does anyone imagine that the Brown Noser will have the courage and fortitude to respond to
legal action brought against him and Bellingcrap? Will his Atlantic Council employers support
him or has he passed his use-by date and become a liability?
"... November in Ukraine has been marked by the adoption of the so called 'land reform', in accordance of the demands made by the IMF amongst other international financial organizations. The reform opens the way for the mass privatization of Ukraine's agricultural lands. The IMF has been making these demands for many years but assorted Ukrainian presidents have tried to postpone such an unpopular decision. Recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians of all political persuasions are opposed to land privatization, from far-right to far-left. ..."
"... After an intensive period of deindustrialization, which has taken place in recent years, agricultural land remain the only asset with any value in Ukraine but even so, it may be bought for very little. A remarkable fact is that one of the deputies from the ruling party 'Servant of the people,' Nikita Poturayev , while pressing his colleagues at the Parliament to vote for the bill on land reform, claimed [1] that this would be 'settling scores with maniac V. Lenin', i.e. the purpose of the bill was to abolish the land nationalization carried out following the October revolution. ..."
"... Ukrainian political expert Ruslan Bortnik says that the President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky and his team came to power under an obligation to sell out the agricultural land of Ukraine to foreign companies. Those who buy these lands, according to Bortnik, will only be thinking about making the quickest possible buck. "Foreign companies are already operating on Ukrainian soil [renting land]," said Bortnik, ..."
"... "But they are competing with large Ukrainian agricultural holdings. They do not dominate. If the adopted land market model is launched, then only large foreign companies will remain in our market Let's be honest – we are not a sovereign country. At least our government is under external control. And this is a part of the obligations of this government. This is the condition under which they came to power. They are paying the debts through privatization." [2] ..."
"... Ukrainian farmers who still are landowners, formally at least – they just can't sell it – are the same people who are unable to pay their gas and electricity bills, especially after the recent raising of energy prices – another IMF demand. ..."
"... For the most part, it was in the region of $7.4 billion of stolen Ukraine's public money, from which only a "small share" was used to bribe Western politicians, like Hunter Biden. The deputies have stressed that, according to the investigation of Ukraine's general prosecution, the withdrawn and laundered money was then invested back into Ukraine. In particular through the Franklin Templeton Investments, the money was used to buy domestic government bonds (DGB), issued by Kiev at high interest rate. ..."
"... Ukrainian prosecutor Konstantin Kulik recently stated [4] in an interview that Ukraine takes IMF loans to pay out on these debt obligations (DGB). As deputy Aleksandr Dubinsky stressed at the press conference, 40% of the current public budget goes towards the payment of the public debt of Ukraine, including the repayment of DGB at inflated interest rates. ..."
November in Ukraine has been marked by the adoption of the so called 'land reform', in accordance of the demands made by the
IMF amongst other international financial organizations. The reform opens the way for the mass privatization of Ukraine's agricultural
lands. The IMF has been making these demands for many years but assorted Ukrainian presidents have tried to postpone such an unpopular
decision. Recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians of all political persuasions are opposed to land privatization,
from far-right to far-left.
After an intensive period of deindustrialization, which has taken place in recent years, agricultural land remain the only
asset with any value in Ukraine but even so, it may be bought for very little. A remarkable fact is that one of the deputies from
the ruling party 'Servant of the people,' Nikita Poturayev , while pressing his colleagues at the Parliament to vote for the bill
on land reform, claimed [1] that this would be 'settling scores with maniac V. Lenin', i.e. the purpose of the bill was to abolish
the land nationalization carried out following the October revolution.
Ukraine's fertile soil up for grabs
It has long been known that Ukraine's soil is very fertile. Indeed, during WW2 the invading Nazis made a point of appropriating
quantities of it; forcing POWs to collect the top soil and load it onto trains en route to Germany. Now these same lands could fall
into the hands of international agro-holdings.
Ukrainian political expert Ruslan Bortnik says that the President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky and his team came to power
under an obligation to sell out the agricultural land of Ukraine to foreign companies. Those who buy these lands, according to Bortnik,
will only be thinking about making the quickest possible buck. "Foreign companies are already operating on Ukrainian soil [renting
land]," said Bortnik,
"But they are competing with large Ukrainian agricultural holdings. They do not dominate. If the adopted land market model
is launched, then only large foreign companies will remain in our market Let's be honest – we are not a sovereign country. At
least our government is under external control. And this is a part of the obligations of this government. This is the condition
under which they came to power. They are paying the debts through privatization." [2]
Ukrainian farmers who still are landowners, formally at least – they just can't sell it – are the same people who are unable
to pay their gas and electricity bills, especially after the recent raising of energy prices – another IMF demand. Obviously,
their financial desperation will mean that many will have to sell their land at a low price, certainly well below the market value.
Meanwhile, Ukraine remains the poorest country on the continent of Europe and Ukrainian agricultural land remains the cheapest. Moreover,
the lands may be bought up as repaying large loans collected by the Kiev government following the Euromaidan coup in 2014.
This scheme of buying up Ukraine's land is connected with the ongoing corruption scandal in the US: the one related to Joe Biden
and the gas company 'Burisma'. At the end of November, Ukrainian MPs (non-factional people's deputy Andrey Derkach; a deputy from
the Batkivshchyna Party Aleksey Kucherenko; and a deputy from the ruling Servant of the People party, Aleksandr Dubinsky) revealed
it at the press-conference [3].
The point here is that the former Minister of Ecology of Ukraine Nikolay Zlochevsky , an owner of "Burisma" gas company, in 2014
introduced a number of Western politicians to the board of directors of his company, which helped him to avoid accusations of corruption.
Hunter Biden , son of former US Vice President Joe Biden , received monthly large payments for his "consultancy services". As a result
Ukraine's General prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was investigating the corruption schemes of the company, was forced – under
pressure – to resign by Joe Biden, who even boasted about it in the US media.
Ukrainian MPs have now claimed at a press-conference that the money used to bribe the son of the former Vice President of the
United States was in fact stolen. "Biden received money, the source of which is not the successful activity of Burisma, brilliant
business moves, or recommendations. It is the money of the citizens of Ukraine. It was obtained by criminal means," said the MP Andrey
Derkach. The ultimate goal of all this fraud, in which the Bidens were deeply involved, will be the bankruptcy of Ukraine in 2020-2021,
through the formation of a pyramid of public debt.
Laundering scheme to withdraw money from Ukraine
According to Ukrainian deputies, this was a part of a bigger laundering scheme to withdraw money from Ukraine via Latvian banks
and the fund 'Franklin Templeton Investments,' which is close to the United States Democratic Party. The founder of the foundation,
John Templeton Jr., was one of the main sponsors of the campaign of former US President Barack Obama.
For the most part, it was in the region of $7.4 billion of stolen Ukraine's public money, from which only a "small share"
was used to bribe Western politicians, like Hunter Biden. The deputies have stressed that, according to the investigation of Ukraine's
general prosecution, the withdrawn and laundered money was then invested back into Ukraine. In particular through the Franklin Templeton
Investments, the money was used to buy domestic government bonds (DGB), issued by Kiev at high interest rate.
The principle of this scheme is that with the assistance of American funds, the laundered money was legalised and invested in
government bonds at 6-8% in dollars and 15-17% in Ukrainian currency (hryvnia). This is leading to enormous growth in the Ukrainian
public debt and eventually the bankruptcy of the country's economy.
Eventual bankruptcy of the economy
Ukrainian prosecutor Konstantin Kulik recently stated [4] in an interview that Ukraine takes IMF loans to pay out on these
debt obligations (DGB). As deputy Aleksandr Dubinsky stressed at the press conference, 40% of the current public budget goes towards
the payment of the public debt of Ukraine, including the repayment of DGB at inflated interest rates.
According to him, bankruptcy on the debts could happen by the end of 2020 or 2021.
And this scheme is connected with land privatization, as adopted by Kiev in November in accordance with the IMF demand. "DGBs
are a financial instrument by which the state owes all its property when paying off the DGB. And if the land market is opened, the
state will have no other valuable property, with the exception of land," said Dubinsky, demanding the suspension of debt payments
to international creditors.
As a result of this unpopular land reform and the widespread violations of labour rights, Ukraine's trade-unions called a general
strike [5] for November 14 and began preparations. For the first time in the history of independent Ukraine, a strike committee was
formed at the all-national level. This committee was joined by trade unions, individual entrepreneurs, small businesses, agricultural
producers and farmers.
Management fires workers, pays themselves millions in bonuses
On November 14, Ukrainian railroad workers protested [6] in front of the Presidential office in Kiev against the announced plans
to fire some 50% of railroad personnel. The workers demanded the railroad management should resign instead. The deputy head of the
railroad trade-union, Alexander Mushenok, recently said [7] that currently "only 20 workers are employed where 60 workers are needed."
At the same time the workers claim that the top-level management of the company are paying themselves millions in bonuses. One of
the IMF demands requires that the Kiev authorities privatize the railroad system as well. In practice, this means that the few profitable
routes will be privatized by western companies, while the majority of non-profitable routes – to poorly developed provinces – will
remain state-owned, making the railway transport even less profitable.
The entire course of privatization, as promoted by the IMF, can be summarized by the principle 'privatization of profits, nationalization
of losses." And the new Kiev government is far too dependent to protest against the imposition of this policy; however, this will
effectively mean that this government will lose its credibility and trustworthiness among the people.
*
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site, internet forums. etc.
Looks like both Yovanovich and Hill are connected to Soros and did his bidding instead of pursuing Trump policies as for
Ukraine. Yovanovich was clearly dismiied due to her role in channeling damaging to Trump information during 2016 elections,
the fact that she denies (as she denied the exostance of "do not procecute list"). And nothing can be taken serious from a
government official until she denied it.
Notable quotes:
"... Fiona Hill, who was the senior director for Europe and Russia in the National Security Council (NSC) said other NSC staff had been "hounded out" by threats against them, including antisemitic smears linking them to the liberal financier and philanthropist, George Soros, a hate figure on the far right. ..."
"... This was a mishmash of conspiracy theories that I believe firmly to be baseless, an idea of an association between her and George Soros." ..."
"... "My entire first year of my tenure at the National Security Council was filled with hateful calls, conspiracy theories, which has started again, frankly, as it's been announced that I've been giving this deposition, accusing me of being a Soros mole in the White House, of colluding with all kinds of enemies of the president, and of various improprieties." ..."
"... "When I saw this happening to Ambassador Yovanovitch, I was furious," she said, pointing to "this whipping up of what is frankly an antisemitic conspiracy theory about George Soros to basically target nonpartisan career officials, and also some political appointees as well." ..."
"... Hill dismissed the suggestion that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election was a "conspiracy theory" intended to distract attention from Russia's well-documented role. ..."
Fiona Hill, who was the senior director for Europe and Russia in the National Security
Council (NSC) said other NSC staff had been "hounded out" by threats against them, including
antisemitic smears linking them to the liberal financier and philanthropist, George Soros, a
hate figure on the far right.
In her testimony to Congress, Hill described a climate of fear among administration
staff.
The UK-born academic and biographer of Vladimir Putin said that the former ambassador to
Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, was the target of a hate campaign, with the aim of driving her from
her post in Kyiv, where she was seen as an obstacle to some corrupt business interests.
Yovanovitch was recalled from Ukraine in May on Trump's orders. In a 25 July conversation
with the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, Trump described Yovanovitch as "bad news"
and predicted she was "going to go through some things". The former ambassador has testified
she felt threatened by the remarks.
Trump's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, led calls for Yovanovitch's dismissal, as did two of Giuliani
business associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. All three are under scrutiny in hearings being
held by House committees looking at Trump's use of his office to put pressure on the Ukrainian
government to investigate his political opponents.
"There was no basis for her removal," Hill testified. "The accusations against her had no
merit whatsoever. This was a mishmash of conspiracy theories that I believe firmly to be
baseless, an idea of an association between her and George Soros."
"I had had accusations similar to this being made against me as well," Hill testified. "My
entire first year of my tenure at the National Security Council was filled with hateful calls,
conspiracy theories, which has started again, frankly, as it's been announced that I've been
giving this deposition, accusing me of being a Soros mole in the White House, of colluding with
all kinds of enemies of the president, and of various improprieties."
She added that the former national security adviser, HR McMaster "and many other members of
staff were targeted as well, and many people were hounded out of the National Security Council
because they became frightened about their own security."
"I received, I just have to tell you, death threats, calls at my home. My neighbours
reported somebody coming and hammering on my door," Hill said, adding that she had also been
targeted by obscene phone calls. "Now, I'm not easily intimidated, but that made me mad."
"When I saw this happening to Ambassador Yovanovitch, I was furious," she said, pointing to
"this whipping up of what is frankly an antisemitic conspiracy theory about George Soros to
basically target nonpartisan career officials, and also some political appointees as well."
In Yovanovitch's case, Hill said: "the most obvious explanation [for the smear campaign]
seemed to be business dealings of individuals who wanted to improve their investment positions
inside of Ukraine
itself, and also to deflect away from the findings of not just the Mueller report on Russian
interference but what's also been confirmed by your own Senate report, and what I know myself
to be true as a former intelligence analyst and somebody who has been working on Russia for
more than 30 years."
Hill dismissed the suggestion that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election was a "conspiracy
theory" intended to distract attention from Russia's well-documented role.
The list contains some (but not all) of the key participants of the 2014 coup d'état
against President Yanukovich. There are 13 names in the list: MPs Serhiy Leshchenko, Mustafa
Nayem, Svitlana Zalishchuk, Serhiy Berezenko, Serhiy Pashynsky; ex-Prime Minister Arseniy
Yatsenyuk; ex-Head of the National Bank of Ukraine Valeriya Hontareva; ex-First Deputy of the
National Security and Defense Council Oleg Hladkovsky; judge of the Constitutional Court of
Ukraine Makar Pasenyuk; candidate for presidency Anatoly Hrytsenko; singer Svyatoslav Vakarchuk;
journalist Dmytro Hordon and ex-Head of the Presidential Administration Borys Lozhkin.
Pashynsky was involved in Snipergate. Yatsenyuk was the marionette chosen by Nuland to head
the Provisional government after Yanukovich will be overthrown.
Almost all of these people from the list were involved in various sort of scandals during
the last five years. Particularly, Oleg Hladkovsky was recently dismissed from his post due to
the corruption scandal in the defense sphere. Serhiy Leshchenko became known for the purchase
of the flat for $275,253 and the number of information attacks at well-known politicians and
businessmen. Serhy Pashynsky was tied to the hostile takeover of a confectionary factory in
Zhytomyr.
In its turn, the U.S. Department of State stated that the
words of Lutsenko are not true and aims to tarnish the reputation of Ambassador
Yovanovitch. Thus, there are certain concerns that the actual list might be fake.
WASHINGTON (Sputnik) - The House is holding its second public hearing with former US envoy
to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch centring around her ouster which, according to her, is pertinent
to the impeachment probe against Trump. Former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch
flatly denied allegations that she circulated a list of potential corruption targets in Ukraine
that the United States did not want prosecuted, according to testimony at the opening of
hearings in the House impeachment probe of President Donald Trump on Friday.
"I want to reiterate first that the allegation that I disseminated a do not prosecute list
was a fabrication", Yovanovitch said. "Mr Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian prosecutor general
who made that allegation, has acknowledged that the list never existed. I did not tell Mr
Lutsenko or other Ukrainian officials who they should or should not prosecute. Instead I
advocated the US position that rule of law should prevail."
US President Donald Trump in a series of tweets on Friday
criticised former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch's performance while she was
testifying in the impeachment hearing against him. He defended his decision to replace
Yovanovitch - appointed by his predecessor Barak Obama - as the US ambassador to Ukraine, where
she served from August 2016 until May 2019.
....They call it "serving at the pleasure of the President." The U.S. now has a very
strong and powerful foreign policy, much different than proceeding administrations. It is
called, quite simply, America First! With all of that, however, I have done FAR more for
Ukraine than O.
During Friday's Democrat-led impeachment inquiry hearing, former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine
Marie Yovanovitch testified under oath that she did not give former Ukrainian Prosecutor
General Yuriy Lutsenko a "do not prosecute list" in 2017. Yovanovitch also doubled-down on
left-wing disinformation saying that Lutsenko "acknowledged that the list never existed" in
April.
"I want to reiterate first that the allegation that I disseminated a "Do Not Prosecute" list
was a fabrication,"
Yovanovitch told the House Intelligence Committee . "Mr. Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian
prosecutor general who made that allegation, has acknowledged that the list never existed. I
did not tell Mr. Lutsenko or other Ukrainian officials who they should or should not
prosecute."
"That is such a lie," Glenn Beck said on Friday's show. "She should be held for
perjury."
During a three-part BlazeTV exposé on the Democrats' corruption in Ukraine, Glenn
debunked what he called "the most misleading fabrication I've ever seen by the mainstream
media."
Earlier this year, award-winning investigative journalist John
Solomon reported Lutsenko's claim that then-Ambassador Yovanovitch gave him a list of
"people whom we should not prosecute" during a meeting in 2016. Shortly after Solomon's article
was released, several news sources, including the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal,
reported that Lutsenko retracted his statement.
When Lutsenko said Yovanovitch "gave" him a list, he did not mean she actually handed him
anything in writing, but verbally conveyed the names of people he shouldn't prosecute.
"They never mentioned the fact that it was verbally dictated and he wrote the list down
himself -- are you kidding me?" Glenn exclaimed. "This is how the media is fact-checking and
debunking. They are playing with our republic and Ukraine's republic. They are planting
dynamite all around everything that we hold dear. How do they sleep at night? Everyone that
reads their stories actually thinks that there was a retraction of one of the most damning
parts of this entire case."
If you like what you see, use promo code GB20OFF to get $20 off a full year of BlazeTV . With a BlazeTV subscription, you're not just paying to watch
great pro-free speech, pro-America TV. Your subscription funds the intensive investigations
that let BlazeTV tell the stories
the liberal media wants to keep in the dark, giving you the unvarnished truth, showing you what
the media doesn't want you to see.
Read More
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko told Hill.TV's John Solomon in an interview that
aired Wednesday that U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch gave him a do not prosecute
list during their first meeting.
"Unfortunately, from the first meeting with the U.S. ambassador in Kiev, [Yovanovitch] gave
me a list of people whom we should not prosecute," Lutsenko, who took his post in 2016, told
Hill.TV last week.
"My response of that is it is inadmissible. Nobody in this country, neither our president
nor our parliament nor our ambassador, will stop me from prosecuting whether there is a crime,"
he continued.
The State Department called Lutsenko's claim of receiving a do not prosecute list, "an
outright fabrication."
"We have seen reports of the allegations," a department spokesperson told Hill.TV. "The
United States is not currently providing any assistance to the Prosecutor General's Office
(PGO), but did previously attempt to support fundamental justice sector reform, including in
the PGO, in the aftermath of the 2014 Revolution of Dignity. When the political will for
genuine reform by successive Prosecutors General proved lacking, we exercised our fiduciary
responsibility to the American taxpayer and redirected assistance to more productive
projects."
Hill.TV has reached out to the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine for comment.
Lutsenko also said that he has not received funds amounting to nearly $4 million that the
U.S. Embassy in Ukraine was supposed to allocate to his office, saying that "the situation was
actually rather strange" and pointing to the fact that the funds were designated, but "never
received."
"At that time we had a case for the embezzlement of the U.S. government technical assistance
worth 4 million U.S. dollars, and in that regard, we had this dialogue," he said. " At that
time, [Yovanovitch] thought that our interviews of Ukrainian citizens, of Ukrainian civil
servants, who were frequent visitors of the U.S. Embassy put a shadow on that anti-corruption
policy."
"Actually, we got the letter from the U.S. Embassy, from the ambassador, that the money that
we are speaking about [was] under full control of the U.S. Embassy, and that the U.S. Embassy
did not require our legal assessment of these facts," he said. "The situation was actually
rather strange because the funds we are talking about were designated for the prosecutor
general's office also and we told [them] we have never seen those, and the U.S. Embassy replied
there was no problem."
"The portion of the funds namely 4.4 million U.S. dollars were designated and were foreseen
for the recipient Prosecutor General's office. But we have never received it," he said.
Yovanovitch previously served as the U.S. ambassador to Armenia under former presidents
Obama and George W. Bush, as well as ambassador to Kyrgyzstan under Bush. She also served as
ambassador to Ukraine under Obama.
"... Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references? Might have been a non-biased article, but many of us will never know... ..."
"... They certainly aren't National Socialists, and arguably not nationalists. Nationalists are open to what is best for "the nation" regardless of where it lies on the political spectrum. Since they don't consider the people in Donbas to be part of "the nation", that means, if anything, they are useful idiots of Zionism. ..."
In my July 25th article " Zelenskii's dilemma " I pointed
out the fundamental asymmetry of the Ukrainian power configuration following Zelenskii's crushing victory over Poroshenko: while
a vast majority of the Ukrainian people clearly voted to stop the war and restore some kind of peace to the Ukraine, the real levers
of power in the post-Maidan Banderastan are all held by all sorts of very powerful, if also small, minority groups including:
The various "oligarchs" (Kolomoiskii, Akhmetov, etc.) and/or mobsters Arsen Avakov's internal security forces including some "legalized"
Nazi death squads The various non-official Nazi deathsquads (Parubii) The various western intelligence agencies who run various groups
inside the Ukraine The various western financial/political sponsors who run various groups inside the Ukraine The so-called "Sorosites"
(соросята) i.e. Soros and Soros-like sponsored political figures The many folks who want to milk the Ukraine down to the last drop
of Ukrainian blood and then run
These various groups all acted in unison, at least originally, during and after the Euromaidan. This has now dramatically changed
and these groups are now all fighting each other. This is what always happens when things begin to turn south and the remaining loot
shrinks with every passing day,
Whether Zelenskii ever had a chance to use the strong mandate he received from the people to take the real power back from these
groups or not is now a moot point: It did not happen and the first weeks of Zelenskii's presidency clearly showed that Zelenskii
was, indeed, in " free fall ": instead of becoming
a "Ukrainian Putin" Zelenskii became a "Ukrainian Trump" – a weak and, frankly, clueless leader, completely outside his normal element,
whose only "policy" towards all the various extremist minorities was to try to appease them, then appease them some more, and then
even more than that. As a result, a lot of Ukrainians are already speaking about "Ze" being little more than a "Poroshenko 2.0".
More importantly, pretty much everybody is frustrated and even angry at Zelenskii whose popularity is steadily declining.
... ... ...
Another major problem for Zelenskii are two competing narratives: the Ukronazi one and, shall we say, the "Russian" one. I have
outlined the Ukronazi one just above and now I will mention the competing Russian one which goes something like this:
The Euromaidan was a completely illegal violent coup against the democratically elected President of the Ukraine, whose legitimacy
nobody contested, least of all the countries which served as mediators between Poroshenko and the rioters and who betrayed their
word in less than 24 hours (a kind of a record for western politicians and promises of support!).
... ... ...
Some of the threats made by these Ukronazis are dead serious and the only person who, as of now, kinda can keep the Ukrainian
version of the Rwandan " Interahamwe " under control would probably be Arsen Avakov, but since he himself is a hardcore
Nazi nutcase, his attitude is ambiguous and unpredictable. He probably has more firepower than anybody else, but he was a pure "
Porokhobot " (Poroshenko-robot) who, in many ways, controlled Poroshenko more than Poroshenko controlled him. The best move
for Zelenskii would be to arrest the whole lot of them overnight (Poroshenko himself, but also Avakov, Parubii, Iarosh, Farion, Liashko,
Tiagnibok, etc.) and place a man he totally trusts as Minister of the Interior. Next, Zelenskii should either travel to Donetsk or,
at least, meet with the leaders of the LDNR and work with them to implement the Minsk Agreements. That would alienate the Ukronazis
for sure, but it would give Zelenskii a lot of popular support.
Needless to say, that is not going to happen. While Zelenskii's puppet master Kolomoiskii would love to stick this entire gang
in jail and replace them with his own men, it is an open secret that powerful interest groups in the US have told Zelenskii "don't
you dare touch them". Which is fine, except that this also means "don't you dare change their political course either".
...are going through the famous Kübler-Ross stages of griefs: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance: currently,
most of them are zig-zagging between bargaining and depression; acceptance is still far beyond their – very near – horizon. Except
that Zelenskii has nothing left to bargain with.
Thank you for a rational article about Ukraine. The sad thing is that it might take years to reach the "acceptance" phase.
It would take someone like Hitler to clean out the stables. Arrest is not a viable option as they will bribe their way out.
These people need to be put down like rabid dogs. That is the only way to put an end to their mischief and it would be a deterrent
to their replacements.
Personally, I suspect that the Ukraine is being deliberately depopulated to make way for waves of "refugees" from Israel. Another
country that is still in the "denial" phase. Its military and political leaders know full-well that their strategic aims have
all failed. The boot is now firmly on the other foot.
I suspect that Crimea was their preferred destination and hence the massive non-stop propaganda against Russia on that score.
To give you an idea of how ridiculous it has all become, the UK no longer accepts medical degrees awarded by universities in Crimea.
Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references? Might have been a non-biased article, but
many of us will never know...
I suspect that the Ukraine is being deliberately depopulated to make way for waves of "refugees" from Israel.
You got that right – what it's all about is building a New Khazaria. But they're neither giving up on their Greater Israel
project between the two rivers, and hence more wars, conflict and chaos to drive out the native Arabs from the Middle East.
I suspect that Crimea was their preferred destination and hence the massive non-stop propaganda against Russia on that score.
@AWMThey certainly aren't National Socialists, and arguably not nationalists. Nationalists are open to what is best for
"the nation" regardless of where it lies on the political spectrum. Since they don't consider the people in Donbas to be part
of "the nation", that means, if anything, they are useful idiots of Zionism.
@bob sykes Kolomoiskii is the real hidden owner/controller of the company that bribed the Bidens. He has a finger in lots
of pies. His pretense to leaning towards Russia is his way to try to get the Americans to stop attempts to get at the many millions
that he stole from his own Ukrainians bank – fake loans to his companies.
Of course, the Russians understand all of that. This theater is aimed at the Americans – not at the Russians.
For the Ukrainian state to break up, there need to be some forces interested in a break-up. You won't find such forces inside
the Ukraine.
What is Ukrainian South-East? In pure political terms, "South-East" is a bunch of oligarchs, who are all integrated into Ukrainian
system, and have no reason to seek independence from Kiev, especially if it means getting slapped with Western sanctions.
Even the Kremlin doesn't show much interest in breaking up the Ukraine, so why the hell would it break up?
It's worth pointing out that the so-called "Novorossia movement" started out as Akhmetov's project to win concessions from
new Kiev regime. It was then quickly hijacked by Strelkov, a man who actually wanted to break up the Ukraine, and it is because
of Strelkov, that Donetsk and Lugansk are now de-facto independent. Without similar figures to lead secessionist movements elsewhere
in the Ukraine, this break-up that Saker keeps talking about will never happen.
His ratings must be sky-high, because otherwise I cannot imagine why Fox would allow him to continue to use their network as
a medium to broadcast common sense.
Of course the Dems are making it so easy.
Schiff, Kent, Taylor, Yanovitch -- what a pathetic, nauseating crew.
@Alfred I had the same thoughts. Zelenskii should show a similar coffin with the text
"This one is still empty" and then start rounding up the terrorists. He finally has a good
excuse.
Thank you Saker and Unz for the very interesting article .
I wonder what has been the role of Germany in the Ukrainian disaster . ...I have the
feeling , just the suspicion , that they contributed to the ucranian disaster out of their
genetic Drang nach Osten Nordic greed , is that right ?
Anyway since the Ukrainian disaster the cohesion of the EU is going going down . Germany
which was gifted with the german reunification , is less and less trusted spetially in south
Europe , and even less in the EU far west , in England which is going out of the EU .
Most of the people in the EU would like to keep collaborating with the US , of course ,
but also with Russia and with the rest of the world . Most of the people in the UE are scared
of the dark forces operating in Ukraine trying to provoke a war with Russia .
The stupid name-calling like the term "ukronazi" makes this article look like a rant like
North Korean communiques or the ravings of some Arab despot's propagandist. It is not better
than calling "The Saker" a "Moskal", "Sovok" or "Putler's stooge" etc. He should keep this
lingo to directly "debating" "Ukronazis" on twitter or youtube commentst etc. not for an
article that is supposed to be a serious analysis.
I understand that it is hard for a Russian nationalist to accept that the majority of
Ukrainians don't want to belong to their dream Russkiy Mir, they were seduced by the West,
which is more attractive with all its failings, because mostly of simple materialistic
reasons. Ukrainians happily go to EU countries that now allow them in as guest workers. The
fact, like it or not that majority of them chose the West over Russkiy Mir despite being very
close to Russians in culture, language, history etc. He is still in the first stage of grief
it seems.
All in all, Ukrainians are probably way above average in most human characteristics. The
area of Ukraine is by planetary standards one of the best available: arable land, great
rivers, Black see, pleasant and liveable.
But it is 2019 and life in Ukraine is barely better than it was 25-50 years ago,
population has actually dropped from its peak in early 1990's. Millions of Ukrainians live
abroad (I know some of them) and have – to be polite – at best an ambivalent
attitude towards their homeland. Almost all of them prefer to be somewhere else, even to
become someone else.
Now why is that? A normal society would have enough introspection to discuss this, to look
for answers. Throwing a temper-tantrum on a big square in Kiev every few years is not looking
for a solution. That is escapism, Orange-this, Maidan-that, 'Russians bad', 'we are going
West', 'golden toilets', and always 'Stalin did it'.
I don't agree with the facile name-calling that sees Nazis everywhere and exaggerates
throw-away symbolism. But Ukraine has not been functioning and it can't go like this much
longer. Not because it will collapse, it won't, but because during an era of general
prosperity Ukraine can't be a unstable exception (oh, I get it, they are better than Moldova,
good for them.)
Rebellions against geography are doomed. Projecting one's personal frustrations on
external enemies (Kremlin!) has never worked. Ukraine needs rationality – accepting
that they will not be in EU, that attempting to join Nato would destroy Ukraine, and that
they can't beat Russia in a war. And following advise of half-mad and half-ignorant
well-wishers from Washington or Brussels is a road to ruin. Nulands, Bidens and Tusks will
never live in Ukraine, they really deeply don't care about it. They have no skin in that
game, it is just entertainment for them.
Or alternatively you can pray that Russia collapses – good luck waiting for
that.
There is not much 'drang' left in Germany, so I think this is mostly fingers on the map
post dinner empty talk.
in 1945 the jewery asked Stalin to give Crimea to the jews , Stalin refused
Crimea is a jewel, but has one big problem: not enough water. But that's also true about
Izrael, maybe there is a deep genetic memory of coming out of a desert environment.
During WWII, Germany actually established settlements in Crimea. Think about it: there is
a massive war, you have like 1-2 years, short on transport and resources, and you start
sending settlers to Crimea – that's how much drang-nach-osten types wanted it.
And the Turks, etc This must be driving them absolutely nuts.
The mexicans are able to make fun of themselves , that`s a good thing . They have a joke
which aplies also to Ukraina ( and other countries )
The mexicans say : when God created Mexico He gave Mexico everything ; land , mountains ,
plains , tropical forests , deserts , two oceans , agriculture , gold , silver , oil . then
God saw how beautiful and perfect Mexico was and He though that He should also give something
bad to the country to prevent the sin of pride , and then he populated Mexico with pure
pendejos ,( idiots ) .
@AWM "Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references?
If you want a decent analysis of current events in the Ukraine, which is what The Saker
provides, I guess you'll just have to put up with his terminology.
The world won't miss a thing if Curmudgeon or AWM goes off in a huff, to sit on his toilet
and read the "one joke per dump" volume lodged on the tank and stops reading The Saker's very
thorough analysis as a protest action!
@Anon My experience is that Ukrainians individually are far from being pendejos .
But they are unable to act as a group or as a nation. (Well, they 'act', but it mostly
somehow fails.)
Maybe it is the relative shallow and heterogenous history of Ukraine. Or – and this
is what I have observed – a fundamental inner disloyalty to the Ukraine as a homeland.
When one observes the assorted Porkys, Timoshenkas, Yanuks, the oligarchs, but also the
crowds on Maidan, I get a sense that they are all about to leave Ukraine or are thinking
about leaving. Societies can't be built with one foot always at the airport, or in an old car
in a 5-km column waiting on the border of Poland. Or Russia.
Another good article – thanks – Yep, the US/EU NWO is not going to let their
"West Ukraine Isis" battalions and intel gang lose their funding , arms trafficking ops, or
terrorist reputation. This is a no win situation in Ukraine and the West knows it –
Even if NovoRossiya gets some independence, the Ukraine Isis will/can reek havoc and murder
for a long time along the border. The modern Cheka { Ukraine Isis } has been modified for the
security of the new Farmland owners – Monsanto, Cargill, DuPont and the rest of the
Globalist Corporations and their ports close to Odessa.
One point of contention since it wasn't made clear in this article – Novorussia
consists of Luhansk and Donetsk, but not Kharkov. While Kharkov has more Russians than most
other provinces of Ukraine do, it does not have a plurality like Donetsk and Luhansk.
All of Ukraine's doomsayers have been crying about Ukraine's demise for the lat 25
years, yet the fact is that it' s getting stronger and stronger every year,
USA diaspora keeps on delivering.
Shoutout to quarter/half Poles USA citizens LARPing as Ukrainian patriots in the
comments.
@Felix KeverichEven the Kremlin doesn't show much interest in breaking up the
Ukraine, so why the hell would it break up?
Follow the money my friend!
Some provinces send much more money to Kiev then they get back in "services". So long as
more loans from the EU, The USA and the IMF were forthcoming, that situation was not too bad.
Now, the spigot is being closed. Hence the sad face of Mr Z when he met Trump in
Washington.
This means that the provinces that are losing most from this internal transfer are going
to be strongly motivated to stop sending money to Kiev. Kiev will lose control and that will
fragment the country.
The Donbass was a big contributor to Kiev and got little in return – that was a
major reason for their dissatisfaction. Everyone there could see that Kiev sent the money
west and kept much for itself.
If the French provinces were to stop sending money to Paris, the Yellow movement would be
totally unnecessary.
@awry About 2.5 million Ukrainians have "emigrated" (you could also say "fled") to the RF
since 2014.
Per Bloomberg most of the outflow not to Russia has been to countries of Eastern Europe, esp.
Poland.
@AP "Ukraine was historically a marsh of Poland for centuries before it was a historical
marsh of Russia"
That was mostly Galicia and Volhynia. It is a tiny part of today's the Ukraine. In these
areas, the Poles were landowners, the Jews their rent/tax collectors and the peasants were
Ukrainian-speaking Slavs. Now, they are planning to sell the best farmland to "foreigners"
(i.e. Jews) and the Slavs will become serfs once again.
@Mr. Hack The problem with your argument is that the 'war' in the east was entirely
predicable. So was Crimea leaving and joining Russia. The people in charge in Kiev –
presumably with 3-digit IQ – would think about it, plan for it, etc They obviously
didn't. Instead they provided a needed catalyst to make it worse by voting in February 2014
to ban Russian language in official use, and the idiotic attacks on Russian speakers like in
Odessa, that were neither prevented nor punished. The other side – in this case Russia
and Russian speakers living in Donbas and Crimea – rationally took care of their own
interests. Post-Maidan Kiev handed them all they could on a silver platter while busying
themselves with silly slogans and videos of golden saunas.
Russia is actually one of the least susceptible countries to an economic collapse in the
world – it is largely self-sufficient, has enormous resources that others will always
buy, and has a very minimal percentage of its economy that deals with foreign trade. What
they are susceptible to is the loss of value for their currency – and that has already
largely happened since 2014. When it comes to energy, the countries that are low-cost
producers are least impacted – who you should worry about are the numerous higher-cost
producers like US shale, coal miners, or LNG gas that have huge upfront fixed costs and
built-in high transportation costs. Russia and Saudis will be fine.
Back to the drawing board, what exactly is the plan in Kiev? If they know that having a
war costs them investments, how do they end that war? It is highly unlikely that it would end
with a victorious Kiev army conquering Donetsk (or Crimea). So what's the plan?
It's amazing how spectacularly inept all these interventions over the last decades have been.
Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Yemen, the coup in Turkey but also Ukraine.
And I know that in the ME, the Isrseli policy, as iterated by Michael Orin is to let all
sides bleed each other to death, and that part has been relatively successful until
recently.
But in Ukraine, they were going to consolidate their control over the country from Kiev
and force-march the Russians out of Sevastopol. And that part didn't work at all, except as
leverage to impose sanctions on Russia; but the long term goal of using Ukraine to overthrow
Putin is now stuck in the Donbas.
My point being that it is the great fortune of the world that these criminal nitwits and
fools in the State (War) Department and their helpers in the "intelligence" community are so
arrogant and incompetent.
@Anon Merkel (who herself was studying in Donetsk for few months) definitely has a hand
in ze EuroUkrainian mess.
Afterall she met with Right Sector representatives one dayt before the final, bloody part
of the coup started. And that meeting of "reporting on delivering at our commitments and
asking Merkel about her delivery of her commitments" both with the next day start of "offence
at the government" was announced by Right Sector yet another day before, 16 February
2014.
However i have reservations about Merkel representing German peoples, especially some
alleged "genetical" trend of them to invade eastwards.
It was public, that Merkel's everything including public phone is spied upon by USA
"intelligence community", and Merkel considered it normal and proper.
So it is clearly stated what she considers her allegiance and whom she considers her
employees. Not citizens of Germany.
"Each of these countries is as inorganic and disunited as Ukraine, or worse, made up as they
are of various racial and ethnic groups who don't identify with each other."
I am dubious about this suggestion. But more importantly, Ukraine or the Ukraine has had a
violent revolution about every ten years. You simply cannot develop a stable government,
economy or safe social system if you you overturn the the government via violence every ten
tears.
That is the key differences and essential to any successful government, and more so for a
democracy that holds as innate belief, a tolerance for difference even competing ideas held
by its population. It is as if the only the only we are exporting is revolution as solution
to differences.
@Mr. Hack > Russia has never been able to lead with a carrot, but only with a stick.
Russia offered dozen billions of loans and years ahead orders for Ukrainian industries.
Those that Yatzenyuk begged to be re-started when he destroyed democratic government of
Ukraine.
EuroMaidan tried to stole the carrot from Ukraine, and while it succeeded in stealing what
Ukraine already picked, about 10%, the rest was kept safe of usurpers' reach, and so they
started looting Ukrainian economy instead. Hrivna fallen 3-fold – more than ruble.
> Positive outside influence into Ukraine's internal development in the form of
investments and economic development
EuroMaidan usurpers stopped real and ongoing investments from China and Russia by looting
what investments arrived into Ukraine already. But at least they got $5 billions of
investments from Nulland.
I like how "economic development" is listed as "outside influence". I thought that any
state or nation would claim being capable of their own economic development, but for
EuroMaidania it is quoted as some miracle that can only be given from outside.
> foreign investments being delayed until the war in the east is resolved
And that was why EuroMaidan usurpers invaded Donbass and started the war. To preclude
investments from the West after they stopped investments form China and Russia.
> create a chaotic situations
EuroMaidan proponent blaming chaotic situations. Precious. "Bees against honey"
movement.
> Since the West changed the dynamics of the energy game around the world
Did it? how exactly? By making Ukrainian pipelines liability no one wants to touch with a
pole?
> It's learned to better feed itself, and that's about it
But that is exactly what Ukraine knew how to do, and what EuroMaidania can not do.
While Russia is gaining this experience – EuroMaidania was and is destroying it, for
the sake of being "not like Russia". Way to go!
> One more jolt like in 2014
You mean the one when rouble fallen two-fold and hrivna three-fold?
Guess if the West could do it again – they would. But they can't.
> where are Russia's automobiles, televisions, medical equipment, computers,
pharmaceuticals etc; within the world markeplace?
Russia is not packaging consumer goods. Russia is sending technologies, which others pack
as consumer goods.
Ukraine could become one of those salesmen, packing Russian technologies into pretty wraps
and selling around.
EuroMaidan usurpers feared that and prevented that.
EuroMaidan even destroyed Antonov company, which was one of just 4 companies in the world
capable of building large airframes. Ensuring AirBus+Boeing+Tupolev/Ilyushin would have one
competitor less. And as Antonov was el-cheapo vendor with strategy based on dumping –
it was especially dangerous for Russian company, of the three. Thank you, guys, for removing
this riddance out of Russian pathway. You did great service!
@Hapalong Cassidy Beckow> the crowds on Maidan, I get a sense that they are all about
to leave Ukraine or are thinking about leaving.
You do not need to "have a feeling"
The promise of "visa-less living and working in EU" was exactly what EuroMaidan crowd
paraded as their aim and treasure, somehow magically warranted by the "Deep Association" that
Yatzenyuk and Poroshenko later dragged feet for months, trying to delay signing of this
economy suicide pact.
They were very public and honest about it. They claimed Yanukovich was somehow putting
ball and chain on them all by giving the second thought to orders from Brussels. Aid in
leaving Ukraine was the price they sold Ukrainian economy for. Ther were never shy in 2014 to
speak about it.
Hapalong Cassidy> While Kharkov has more Russians than most other provinces of Ukraine
do, it does not have a plurality like Donetsk and Luhansk.
There is a point. Kharkov in North-East and Odessa in South-West were trading cities,
routing the official and smuggled goods streams and hosting the largest foreign goods
markets. This clearly had impact upon mindsets of citizens and even more of cities
elites.
People in Kharkov went to the streets right after the coup commited and without support
they were at least equally numerous to all-Ukraine sponsored gathering of EuroMaidan #2.
But their leaders did not seek for independence, Kharkov city mayor Kernes openly shook hands
with Andrey "White Fuhrer" Byletsky and expressed his care about his (not Kharkov citizens)
safety in the night of Rymarskaya street murders, 2014 March 14th AFAIR.
People in Kharkov went against nazi from westernmost Ukraine regions (and even policemen)
and stormed those out of their district government building. Who else did then?
They had a huge impulse, but they also focused the most efforts from usurpers to deflect
and dissipate it. And little free resources the usurpers had back then.
Month later, in April, Kharkov was exhausted and pacified. But other regions of Ukraine were
overlooked those two months.
However, it was that first month which gave people in Donetsk and Lugansk both time and
examples to understand what is really going on (it was almost unbelievable that something
like that can actually happen in XXI century in Europe, wasn't it?) and learn their Ukrainian
elites are prostituting them, and then find some other leaders which would have enough skin
in the game to not sell them out.
You may rightly say Kharkov citizens did not resist for long. But have to admit the
resistance of Donbass and Lugansk was in significant part based upon time Kharkov bought them
in March and April 2014, and upon self-exposing that Kharkov's fleeting but furious
resistance forced EuroMaidan usurpers into.
"All, repeat, ALL the steps taken to sever crucial economic and cultural links between Russia
and the Ukraine were decided upon by Ukrainian leaders, never by Russia who only replied
symmetrically when needed.
Even with international sanctions directed at her, Russia successfully survived both the
severance of ties with the Ukraine and the AngloZionist attempts at hurting the Russian
economy. In contrast, severing economic ties with Russia was a death-sentence for the
Ukrainian economy which has now become completely deindustrialized."
No wonder saker deletes posts to his website containing info like these:
The top trade partner of *the* Ukraine is Russia. So his thesis is a little 'shoddy math'
ish. The links have not been severed as he pretends.
" the severance of ties with Russia " The Ukraine is more tied to Russia than any other
country, by recent trade volumes (as well as in traditional culture). Saker doesn't like
these facts to muddy up his thesis.
This means that the provinces that are losing most from this internal transfer are going
to be strongly motivated to stop sending money to Kiev.
You don't get it. Ukraine's South-Eastern provinces are inanimate objects . They
have no consciousness, no self-interest or free will. They don't decide anything.
Donbass never decided to break away from the Ukraine. That choice was made for it by
Strelkov, when he and his men occupied Slovyansk and began an armed confrontation.
@Anon The Ukraine used to export something like $20 billion worth of goods to Russia
annually. It's now closer to $5 billion, and Ukrainians are a lot poorer as a result.
@Felix Keverich The point is saker maintains it is completely de-industrialized. It is
'dead'. Total trade of >40 B all partners, isn't dead by a long shot. See what he says?
'Death sentence'. Far from it. A decrease isn't death. No doubt there has been a plunge. But
saker is over stating it. Russia is still a center of gravity for the Ukraine.
I am so sick and tired of hearing the term nazi this and nazi that when referring to the
situation in the Ukraine. The term nazi died in 1945 and should be left dead and buried. It
was a stupid word created by the British during the war because of their inability to
pronounce the German name for the NSDAP. The British and American media have a fetish for the
word and will call any "right-wing" movement "nazi" if given any opportunity. This shows
their total lack of creativity to come up with anything new and their deep obsession with
anything to do with Hitler which borders on religious worship. I say get rid of the usage of
the word on this site unless one is referring to the actual NSDAP party that existed until
1945.
@AWM You are an absurd cretin. Of course referring to current Ukraine as being controlled
by Nazi's is 100% accurate.
Ukronazis and Hitler Nazi's have many alignments with eachother:
1. Bizarre, fundamentally paganist usage of ahistoric/religious images from a millenia ago
as national symbols that should have had no connection to national identity of either state
in the 1930's or now ( swastika and Tryzub) even the UPA flag has more sense about it to any
"Ukrainian " state
2. Mass arrests and persecution of political opponents I'm fairly sure that Ukronazi's
have arrested ( and maybe even killed) far more people in their first 5 years, that the
Nazi's ever did in their 6 year, pre-war time in charge
3. Mass killing and torture of the people of the Donbass- now take on board this is with
Russia fighting the war of fighting the war that they are not even there and Russia/DNR/LNR
basically conducting huge talks with west/Banderastan and making huge concessions every time
they have been in a a hugely advantageous position or made a big breakthrough in the war.
Even Nazi's wouldn't have used such a lousy pretext for instigating war against the people of
Donbass – although at least the Nazi's could govern their state ukrops can't govern f
** k all without it descending into farce
4. Above average representation of freaks and/or highly camp idiots Goebbels, Goering and
Ribbentrop versus Avakov, "Yats" the yid, Poroshenko, Turchynov and many more – a
lamentable contest
5. Neither would have got off the ground without Anglo-American funding
Just because the Nazi's in the 30's and 40's were more competent does not take away the
similarities
Structural bottlenecks and slow reform progress lead to anemic growth in Ukraine
The rate of economic growth in Ukraine remains too low to reduce poverty and reach income
levels of neighboring European countries. Following the 16 percent cumulative contraction of
the economy in 2014-15, economic growth has recovered to 2.4 percent in 2016-17 and 3.3
percent in 2018. Faster economic growth for a sustained period of time is needed to reduce
poverty which remains above pre-crisis levels. More needs to be done if Ukraine's aspiration
is to become a high-income country and to close the income gap with advanced economies. Today
Ukraine is far from that goal. In terms of GDP-per-capita, Ukraine remains one of the poorest
countries in the region -- at levels of Moldova, Armenia and Georgia. Ukraine's GDP per
capita in purchasing power parity terms is about three times lower than in Poland, despite
having similar income levels in 1990.
At the growth rate of recent years, it will take Ukraine more than 50 years to reach income
levels of today's Poland. If Ukraine's productivity growth and investment rate remains at the
low levels observed in recent years, overt the medium-term the growth rate will converge to
almost zero per annum -- productivity growth is offset by declining contribution of labor as
Ukraine undergoes the demographic transition. Boosting total factor productivity growth to 3
percent per year and investment to 30 percent of GDP would result in sustained growth of
about 4 percent per year over the medium- to long-term. Given declining total population this
translates to GDP per capita growth of about 4.5 percent per year. These trends will not
improve on their own, they can happen only through the implementation of appropriate policies
that boost productivity and increase the returns on factors of production.
1. It does not split trade to industries. Hi-tech big added value and lo-tech slim added
value – falls into the same "total"
2. It only shows one snapshot, not YoY dynamics.
3. The column "Export Product" shows exactly the same value – literally, 100% –
for ALL the countries, all the rows. I wonder what we should deduce from it
2012 – $19,8B
2013 – $17,6B – the start of the coup
2014 – $15B – the coup won power but did not entrenched yet and did not had time
yet to enforce its ideals
2015 – $9.8B – the work started
2016 – $4.8B – 80% of 2012 exports are cut off, EuroMaidan means business
2017 – $3.6B – 82% of 2013 exports are cut off, coming to plateau ?
2018 – $3,9B – a slight rebound, plateau reached
@bob sykes I'd dismiss this, as Putin is apparently doing. Kolomoisky is looking who else
would provide money that he can steal. He, Porky, and others of their ilk stole Western loans
so blatantly, that even US-controlled IMF is balking at giving Ukraine more money. So,
Kolomoisky hopes that Russia will, so that he has more to steal. I hope that his hopes are in
vain.
The entire Ukraine farce can be explained as a simple project
Khazaria 2.0.
I met a Jew (American) in Ukraine over 20 years ago.
He told me the plan Jews were returning to historically Jewish cities in Ukraine by the
hundreds buying up for kopecki on the Gryvnia anything they could.
Media outlets, banks, factories, beachfront land, farmland, apartments, etc.
The idea? Make Ukraine the next EU Country, and benefit from the huge potential of
Ukraine.
I agreed with him at the time, that Ukraine had huge potential, I was there as an engineer
working for German companies but his lust for what could be 'looted' disgusted me.
This is a standard CIA scenario, used in Sarajevo and Deraa before Kiev. So, Ukrainians
bought an old stale show, swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
But the Georgian snipers brought in 2014 to Kiev by Saakashvili started dying in
suspicious circumstances, so those who are still alive rushed to Belarus and started deposing
their testimony. They implicated a lot of Ukies, including former speaker Parubii, former MP
Pashinsky, etc. It was well known (to those who did not keep their eyes wide shut for
political reasons) that the sniper fire in 2014 on Maidan was from the building controlled by
the coup leaders, who later tried to blame Yanuk for it. That's why post-coup Ukrainian
authorities got rid of the trees on Maidan: bullet holes in those trees indicated where the
fire was coming from. But this recent testimony implicated particular people, who (surprise,
surprise!) happened to be among the coup leaders.
@Truth3 The truth is that you are absolutely right. 'Ukrainians' boasted that they are
the 'Khazars' since Mazeppa and Orlyk of the 'Constitution of Bendery' fame, while parading a
distaste for 'the adherents of deceitful Judaism' and noisy adherence to Orthodoxy.
Look at this entry of the http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com and see if
anything changed:
"After Mazepa's death, on 16 April 1710, Orlyk was elected hetman, with the backing of
Charles XII of Sweden, in Bendery. The chief author of the Constitution of Bendery, he
pursued policies aimed at liberating Ukraine from Russian rule. He gained the support of the
Zaporozhian Host, concluded a treaty with Charles XII* in May 1710, and sought to make the
Ukrainian question a matter of international concern by continuing Mazepa's attempts at
establishing an anti-Russian coalition ** . Orlyk signed a treaty with the Crimean khan
Devlet-Girei in February 1711, negotiated with the Ottoman Porte, which formally recognized
his authority over Right-Bank Ukraine and the Zaporizhia in 1712, conducted talks with the
Don Cossack participants in Kondratii Bulavin's revolt who had fled to the Kuban, and even
contacted the Kazan Tatars and the Bashkirs. In 1711–14 he led Cossack campaigns
against the Russians in Right-Bank Ukraine. Despite initial victories they ultimately failed,
because of Turkish vacillation and because the pillaging, raping, and taking of many civilian
captives by Orlyk's Crimean Tatar allies resulted in the loss of public and military support
on the Right Bank".
Nowhere does the 'first "European" constitution' speak about 'ukrainians', but of 'Exercitu
Zaporoviensi genteque Rossiaca" (Zaporozhian Host and the Ruthenian people) living in
"Parva Rossia"/Little Russia.
* putting Ukraine under the protection of the King of Sweden.
** an plot of 'European' and Islamic powers with an intense 'Masonic-Kabbalistic' coloring
(and Jewish financial support) against Russian 'Tsardom' and 'Patriarchal' Church. 'Ukraine'
was an anti-Russian project from the get go. Brzezinski's quip: "Ukraine, a new and important
space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an
independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a
Eurasian empire" reflects only the revival of the old plan in new circumstances.
@Seraphim " Brzezinski's quip: "Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian
chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot "
Old Zbieg was as lunatic as Pole can be and as cunning as Jew can be (was he?).
The Poles were so desiring to became Slavic superpower, and on the height of their might
in 15th century – they could become. They occupied Russian lands – oh, that
mythical Kievan Rus oppressed by Moscow for centuries. And they even occupied Moscow for few
months – more than unified Europe managed to do under both Napoleon and Hitler
combined! Polska was really stronk then.
.well, they ate themselves from inside and sold their statehood to all the foreign bidders
while boasting about Polish pride. Like ukropeans do today. They lost their strength, they
lost their eastern colony, and for a while they even lost Poland itself.
They could never move over it.
Zbieg – coming from Galicia, the last shrink of Poland-occupied lands – had
this specifically Polish resentment burning in him. And he managed to make USA fight Polish
fights. Managed to use American incompetence in history and geography to sell them that idea
that the Ukraine – the borderlands between Poland and Russia have "geopolitical"
importance. For USA, no less. Wow!
Okay, USA invested at very least $5B into buying Ukrainian warchiefs, and we don't know
how much more was added by EU and Germany. They now have this "geopolitical asset" as Zbieg
urged them to do. What are they gonna do with it now? How do they gonna make Ukrainians pay
back the money they spent? Old Zbieg preached about the world "paid by Russia to fight
against Russia". This is that very "Russia, occupy the Ukraine finally, we are tired of
fruitless waiting!" whining they repeat again and again. But if this won't work, just like it
did not work yet, how do they think to make Ukrainians pay for it? Or whom else? I wonder
@Arioch "> My point is the ukraine isn't dead. It isn't dying.
In which quality? As a swath of land inhabited by few peasants here and there – it
surely will remain.
As an economically vibrant country, one of UN founders, with economy larger than German and
closing on France – what it used to be – it is dead.
As a laws-bound polity it is dead since 2014, though was dying even before.
As STEM engineering and education stronghold it was in USSR – it is dead.
As one in just four in the whole world producers of really large airplanes – it is
dead.
As one of the few ICBM producers – it is dead, know-how sold to Saudi.
As one of the few turbojet engines producers – it is dead, know-how sold to China.
As one of the reliable and well known tanks and APCs producer – it is dead, even
USA-occupied Iraq does not buy this trash.
As the country, living from the geographic rent, just providing roads and hotels for cargo
traffic, it is almost dead. Bridges are collapsing, roads – neither for cars nor
railways – are not maintained."
Bravado, anyone can see.
Dead countries don't produce electricity. Real economists look at things like this. Not
just at industrial reorganization. That is the only point you have. Industrial
reorganization. Not death of industry.
@Anon BTW, most *live* countries of the world do not produce ICBMs, nor jet engines, nor
APCs etc, nor super heavy aircraft. The military industrial complex remnants from the SU are
not industries that most of the planet's countries have. Specialties. Those can not be
measures of whether a country is living or dead. Use some real measures.
@Anon Actually a good point. Mass cargo logistics and energy generation. Indeed.
The thing here is, that as of now the Ukraine is enjoying its privileged position from
times Ukrainians ruled USSR (IOW, after Stalin died in 1953 and of few coup leaders Khruschev
became top dog in 1956). The Ukraine is reeking with then top-tech nuclear power plants, that
very few of other USSR republics had (one in Ignalina in Baltics, one in Armenia, and dozen
in Russia, that is all. Ukraine was #2 with huge gap).
There is a switch, though. What do you do with electricity you produced?
And, what kind of electricity you produce?
The second question is tangential to "green energy" fad.
The generation is split to "base" generation, which covers required minimum and should be
steadily generating around the clock, and "maneuvering" generation which can be turned on and
off in a matter of few minutes, to accommodate with daytime traits, like "people awoke in
between 7-8am, took shower, cooked breakfast and departed to school/work".
In general, base generation is predictable, thus does not need big reserves, can use economy
of scales and cut costs. Maneuvering one has to increase costs, dealing with unpredictable
mode changes and extra wearing it puts on the equipment and employees.
The first question, as you can not pour electricity into a tank and keep it for months
there, can be roughly split to
1) use at home, for things like washing, cleaning, entertaining (TV, computers), air
conditioning in summer and heating in winter.
2) use in industries, this is perhaps what "real economists" look for. Those should had less
daily spikes, they might even have near constant consumption around the clock.
3) export to the countries, who need it, but does not want to build their own power
plants
The export is significant thing. There is so called Byrshtyn Island, a constellation of
power plants in Western Ukraine, that was cut off from Ukrainian grid and plugged to Polish
grid, to act as maneuvering damper for Polish citizens' daylight cycles.
You chart shows that between 2014 and 2015 there was strong (about 2000 GWH) decrease in
production, which remained more or less stable after that. It also shows huge seasonal
variation.
It probably means Ukrainian industries and households enjoy a lot of winter-time heating, but
very little of summer-time AC. Just like it was built during USSR times.
Ukrainian electricity export seems rising. Were there new power plants put to service? I
did not heard. Then it means that domestic consumption shrunk.
There was also a streak of Nuclear Power Plants accidents in the news of 2017-2019.
This can stem from two factors:
1) increased reliance on NPP as other power plants go belly-up, especially forcing those
giant NPPs into maneuvering modes, which they were not designed for. You can find news
sources that Ukrainian NPPs were being tested to 105% of normative capacity and to
maneuvering modes, the modes that just do not make sense when together.
2) decreased maintenance
Anyway, those NPPs are of old Soviet design of 1980-s, they are closing to end of life.
We'll see if new ones will be built. Or if they will just be used regardless of aging until
some hard failure, "run to the ground". And what will come after.
Of course, as long as they operate – no mater how harmful to locals – EU will
buy cheap energy.
And since EuroMaidan government is living on debts, it will have no choice than to sell. Even
if domestic power consumption will get zero, the EU will buy the power.
But I do not think EU would invest into building new power plants there when Soviet ones
finally crack.
@Anon Indeed, only Airbus and Boeing can produce super-heavy aircrafts.
China and Russia are contenders. Ukraine used to be, but stepped out.
Does it mean, USA and France are hell-bent over their military industrial complex?
Maybe.
Does it make them run worse?
Bombardier and EmBraer factories are bought by Airbus and Boeing, not vice versa.
Avro of Canada once used to be a pillar, now is memory.
And all the other countries have to kiss up to political powers that allow them purchasing
Boeing and Airbus jets and maintenance as a privilege for their lapdogging.
Iran wanted to buy Airbus badly, how did it work out?
So, yeah, specialties. Those specialties that can not be replaced – for master
races.
And those that can easily – for lapdogs.
New Zealand can produce good beef. But so can Brazil and Argentina. And Ukraine too.
But Brazil can not produce irreplaceable large cargo aircrafts. And even mid-size they can
not produce independently.
All nations are completely artificial along with the gods, ideologies, fiat money & all
the rest if the human fictions. If humans went extinct overnight would the US, Russia et al
still exist? No, nor would their thousands of gods.
That little trick with the maps can be done with many countries. The US is a fine example.
1st map = 13 colonies – keep adding new maps for every new state they added after
France paid for & won US independence & include the theft/conquest of Mexican
territory & Hawaii.
The Ukraine is a huge basket case made much worse by the US, but your (Orlov too) Rabid
Russian nationalism blinds you. IOW, like the empires propagandists, you too are spinning a
narrative, albeit more truthful than empires, but a narrative (emotional) nonetheless.
@Dr Scanlon Maybe we just compare real Ukraine with what it was promised to become?
Michael Saakashvili, 2014-08-26, "Exactly one year from today Ukraine would send
humanitarian aid to Russia. Mark my words.". I am still trying to find that aid around me, no
luck
There also was a much more extended timetable, year by year, how Ukraine would rocket to
the future and how Russia would fall down to middle ages. Wanted to re-read it but could not
find.
@Anon Or yea, sure. Even Ukrainian statistics (which in terms of reliability might be
somewhat better than Nostradamus, at least sometimes) report 53 births for 100 deaths, with
the population shrinking due to this differential alone by more than 200,000 per year. If you
count in emigration, the picture becomes very bleak. Millions work in Russia, Poland, and
elsewhere. Mind you, temporary emigration for work easily becomes permanent. For example, I
have a cousin who used to live in Lvov. He worked in Russia for 20+ years, and since 2014
never visited Ukraine. I guess he is still counted, as he remains a Ukrainian citizen.
@Mr. Hack OK, let's go to the original of the constitution 'ratified' by "His Majesty the
King of Sweden" (cum consensu S-ae R-ae Maiestatis Sueciae, Protectoris Nostri/with the
consent of His Majesty the King of Sweden, our protector):
"It is no secret that Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky of glorious memory, with the
Zaporozhian Host, took up arms and began a just war against the Polish Commonwealth for no
other reason (apart from rights and liberties) except their Orthodox faith, which had been
forced as a result of various encumbrances placed on it by the Polish authorities into union
with the Roman church. Similarly, after the alien new Roman religion had been eradicated
from our fatherland, he with the said Zaporozhian Host and Ruthenian [Rossiaca] people,
sought and submitted himself to the protection of the Muscovite tsardom for no other
reason than "that it shared the same Orthodox religion". Therefore, if God our Lord, strong
and mighty in battle, should assist the victorious armies of His Royal Majesty the King of
Sweden to liberate our fatherland from the Muscovite yoke of slavery, the present newly
elected Hetman will be bound by duty and put under obligation to take special care that no
alien religion is introduced into our Ruthenian [Rossiacam] fatherland. Should one, however,
appear anywhere, either secretly or openly, he will be bound to extirpate it through his
authority, not allow it to be preached or disseminated, and not permit any dissenters,
MOST OF ALL THE ADHERENTS OF DECEITFUL JUDAISM, to live in Ukraine, and will be bound to make
every possible effort that only the Orthodox faith of the Eastern confession, under
obedience to the Holy Apostolic See of Constantinople, be established firmly for ever
and be allowed to expand and to flourish, like a rose among thorns, among the neighbouring
countries following alien religions, for the greater glory of God, the building of churches,
and the instruction of Ruthenian [Rossiacis] sons in the liberal arts. And for the greater
authority of the Kievan metropolitan see, which is foremost in Little Russia [Parva Rossia],
and for a more efficient administration of spiritual matters, His Grace the Hetman should,
after the liberation of our fatherland from the Muscovite yoke, obtain from the Apostolic See
of Constantinople the original power of an exarch in order thereby to renew relationship with
and filial obedience to the aforementioned Apostolic See of Constantinople, from which
it , was privileged to have been enlightened in the holy Catholic faith by the preaching of
the Gospel".
"neque ignotum est, gloriosae memoriae Ducem Theodatum Chmielniccium cum Exercitu
Zaporoviensi non ob aliam causam praeter iura libertatis commotum fuisse iustaque contra
Rempublicam Polonam arma arripuisse, solum pro Fide sua Orthodoxa, quae variorum
gravaminum compulsu a potestate Polonorum coacta fuerat ad unionem cum Ecclesia Romana;
post extirpatam quoque e patria Neoromanam exoticam Religionem, non alio motivo cum eodem
Exercitu Zaporoviensi genteque Rossiaca protectione Imperii Moscovitici dedisse et libere se
subdidisse, solum ob Religionis Orthodoxae unionem. Igitur modernus neoelectus lllustrissimus
Dux, quando Dominus Deus fortis et potens in praeliis iuvabit felicia sacrae S-ae R-ae
Maiestatis Sueciae arma ad vindicandam patriam nostram de servitutis iugo Moscovitico
tenebitur et debito iure obstringetur singularem volvere curam fortiterque obstare, ut nulla
exotica Religio in patriam nostram Rossiacam introducatur, quae si alicubi clamve , palamve
apparuerit, tune activitatem suam extirpandae ipsi debebit, praedicari ampliarique non
permittet, asseclis eiusdem, PRAESERTIM VERO PRAESTIGIOSO IUDAISMO cohabitationem in Ucraina
non concedet et omni virium conatu sollicitam impendet curam, ut sola et una Orthodoxa Fides
Orientalis Confessionis sub obedienta S-tae Apostoiicae sedis Constantinopolitanae in
perpetuum sit firmanda, atque cum amplianda gloria Divina, erigendis ecclesiis exercendisque
in artibus liberalibus filiis Rossiacis dilatetur, ac tanquam rosa inter spinas, inter vicina
exoticae Religionis Dominia virescat et florescat. Propter vero majorem authoritatem
primariae in Parva Rossia sedis Metropolitanae Kiiovensis faciliorique in Spiritualibus
regimine, impositam sibi idem Illustrissimus Dux vindicata patria nostra de iugo Moscovitico
geret provinciam circa procurandam et impertiendam a sede Apostolica Constantinopolitana
Exarchicam primitivam potestatem, ut hoc actu renovetur relatio et filialis patriae nostrae
obedientia ad praefatam Apostolicam sedem Constantinopolitanam, cuius praedicatione Evangelii
in Fide Sancta Catholica illuminari firmarique dignata est".
ТHЕ PYLYP ORLYK CONSTITUTION,
1710@http://www.lucorg.com/block.php/block_id/26
@Anon > Also, check construction spending – click on 10 year
.now how can i account there for the fact, that UAH in 2013 costed three times more than
UAH in 2015 ?
> Farming is an industry.
Grain industry – is low added value one, it is highly competitive market because
grain from any country on Earth is just grain.
USSR used to buy grain, as it sponsored bread production and peasants all around were
buying bead to feed their hens, goats, pigs, etc. Official meat production was large too.
It is definitely better to export at least something than nothing. But it also is better
to export high added value goods.
Before WW1 a minister of Russian Empire said "Let our peasants starve but we will export
all the grains we contracted" – few years later Russian Empire ceased to exist.
In 1931 and 1932 Stalin tenfold decreased then banned grains export breaking the
contracts. 15 years later USSR won WW2.
Franlky, it is just weird that Ukraine and Russia together produce most world's traded
grain, like there is no other fertile soil on Earth. Also Russia and Ukraine are both to the
north from USA, so USA should be able to produce more grains in its warmer climate. Why isn't
USA world #1 grains exporter?
and EU just whimsically bans Ukrainian meat beyond some arbitrary quota.
EU will easily find where to buy meet.
Can Ukraine reciprocate by banning Airbus or Boeing purchases? I wonder
EU can pressure Ukrainian government, and Ukraine can do little in defense.
"... "In direct contravention of U.S. interests" says the NBC and quotes a member of the permanent state who declares "it is clearly in our national interest" to give weapons to Ukraine. ..."
"... But is that really in the national U.S. interest? Who defined it as such? ..."
"... And that's where the policy community and I part company. It is the president, not the bureaucracy, who was elected by the American people. That puts him -- not the National Security Council, the State Department, the intelligence community, the military, and their assorted subject-matter experts -- in charge of making policy. If we're to remain a constitutional republic, that's how it has to stay. ..."
"... The constitution does not empower the "U.S. government policy community", nor "the administration", nor the "consensus view of the interagency" and certainly not one Lt.Col. Vindman to define the strategic interests of the United States and its foreign policy. It is the duly elected president who does that. ..."
"... Mr. Kolomoisky, widely seen as Ukraine's most powerful figure outside government, given his role as the patron of the recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, has experienced a remarkable change of heart: It is time, he said, for Ukraine to give up on the West and turn back toward Russia. ..."
"... "They're stronger anyway. We have to improve our relations," he said, comparing Russia's power to that of Ukraine. "People want peace, a good life, they don't want to be at war. And you" -- America -- "are forcing us to be at war , and not even giving us the money for it." ..."
"... Mr. Kolomoisky [..] told The Times in a profanity-laced discussion, the West has failed Ukraine, not providing enough money or sufficiently opening its markets. ..."
"... Instead, he said, the United States is simply using Ukraine to try to weaken its geopolitical rival. "War against Russia," he said, "to the last Ukrainian." Rebuilding ties with Russia has become necessary for Ukraine's economic survival, Mr. Kolomoisky argued. He predicted that the trauma of war will pass. ..."
"... Kolomoisky's interview is obviously a trial balloon for the policies Zelensky wants to pursue. He has, like Trump, campaigned on working for better relations with Russia. He received nearly 73% of all votes. ..."
"... Ambassador Taylor and the other participants of yesterday's clown show would certainly "mess it up and get in the way" if Zelensky openly pursues the policy he promised to his voters. They are joined in this with the west-Ukrainian fascists they have used to arrange the Maidan coup: ..."
"... Only some 20% of the Ukrainians are in favour of continuing the war against the eastern separatists who Russia supports. During the presidential election Poroshenko received just 25% of the votes. His party European Solidarity won 8.1% of the parliamentary election. Voice won 5.8%. ..."
"... on Yovanovitch, She added: "If our chief representative is kneecapped, it limits our effectiveness to safeguard the vital national security interests of the United States." ..."
"... She wasn't fired, she was kneecapped, and Ukraine is a US vital national security interest, especially after it installed a new government with neo-fascism support.. . .Kneecapping is a form of malicious wounding, often as torture, in which the victim is injured in the knee ..."
NBC News
is not impressed by the first day of the Democrats' impeachment circus. But it fails to
note what the conflict is really about:
It was substantive, but it wasn't dramatic.
In the reserved manner of veteran diplomats with Harvard degrees, Bill Taylor and George
Kent opened the public phase of the House impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump on
Wednesday by bearing witness to a scheme they described as not only wildly unorthodox but
also in direct contravention of U.S. interests.
"It is clearly in our national interest to deter further Russian aggression," Taylor, the
acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and a decorated Vietnam War veteran, said in explaining why
Trump's decision to withhold congressionally appropriated aid to the most immediate target of
Russian expansionism didn't align with U.S. policy.
But at a time when Democrats are simultaneously eager to influence public opinion in favor
of ousting the president and quietly apprehensive that their hearings could stall or
backfire, the first round felt more like the dress rehearsal for a serious one-act play than
the opening night of a hit Broadway musical.
"In direct contravention of U.S. interests" says the NBC and quotes a member of the
permanent state who declares "it is clearly in our national interest" to give weapons to
Ukraine.
But is that really in the national U.S. interest? Who defined it as such?
President Obama was against giving weapons to Ukraine and never transferred any to Ukraine
despite pressure from certain circles. Was Obama's decision against U.S. national interest?
Where are the Democrats or deep state members accusing him of that?
Which brings us to the really critical point of the whole issue. Who defines what is in the
"national interest" with regards to foreign policy? Here is a point where for once I agree with
the right-wingers at the National Review where Andrew McCarthy writes :
[O]n the critical matter of America's interests in the Russia/Ukraine dynamic, I think the
policy community is right, and President Trump is wrong. If I were president, while I would
resist gratuitous provocations, I would not publicly associate myself with the delusion that
stable friendship is possible (or, frankly, desirable) with Putin's anti-American
dictatorship, which runs its country like a Mafia family and is acting on its revanchist
ambitions.
But you see, much like the policy community, I am not president. Donald Trump is.
And that's where the policy community and I part company. It is the president, not the
bureaucracy, who was elected by the American people. That puts him -- not the National
Security Council, the State Department, the intelligence community, the military, and their
assorted subject-matter experts -- in charge of making policy. If we're to remain a
constitutional republic, that's how it has to stay.
The U.S.
constitution "empowers the President of the United States to propose and chiefly
negotiate agreements between the United States and other countries."
The constitution does not empower the "U.S. government policy community", nor "the
administration", nor the "consensus view of the interagency" and certainly not one Lt.Col.
Vindman to define the strategic interests of the United States and its foreign policy. It is
the duly elected president who does that.
The president does not like how the 'American policy' on Russia was built. He rightly
believes that he was elected to change it. He had stated his opinion on Russia during his
campaign and won the election. It is not 'malign influence' that makes him try to have good
relations with Russia. It is his own conviction and legitimized by the voters.
...
[I]t is the president who sets the policies. The drones around him who serve "at his
pleasure" are there to implement them.
There is another point that has to be made about the NBC's assertions. It is not in
the interest of Ukraine to be a proxy for U.S. deep state antagonism towards Russia. Robber
baron Igor Kolomoisky, who after the Maidan coup
had financed the west-Ukrainian fascists who fought against east-Ukraine, says so directly in
his
recent NYT interview :
Mr. Kolomoisky, widely seen as Ukraine's most powerful figure outside government, given his
role as the patron of the recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, has experienced a
remarkable change of heart: It is time, he said, for Ukraine to give up on the West and turn
back toward Russia.
"They're stronger anyway. We have to improve our relations," he said, comparing Russia's
power to that of Ukraine. "People want peace, a good life, they don't want to be at war. And
you" -- America -- "are forcing us to be at war , and not even giving us the money for
it."
... Mr. Kolomoisky [..] told The Times in a profanity-laced discussion, the West has failed
Ukraine, not providing enough money or sufficiently opening its markets.
Instead, he said, the United States is simply using Ukraine to try to weaken its
geopolitical rival. "War against Russia," he said, "to the last Ukrainian." Rebuilding ties
with Russia has become necessary for Ukraine's economic survival, Mr. Kolomoisky argued. He
predicted that the trauma of war will pass.
...
Mr. Kolomoisky said he was feverishly working out how to end the war, but he refused to
divulge details because the Americans "will mess it up and get in the way."
Kolomoisky's interview is obviously a trial balloon for the policies Zelensky wants to
pursue. He has, like Trump, campaigned on working for better relations with Russia. He received
nearly 73% of all votes.
Ambassador Taylor and the other participants of yesterday's clown show would certainly "mess
it up and get in the way" if Zelensky openly pursues the policy he promised to his voters. They
are joined in this
with the west-Ukrainian fascists they have used to arrange the Maidan coup:
Zelenskiy's decision in early October to accept talks with Russia on the future of eastern
Ukraine resulted in an outcry from a relatively small but very vocal minority of Ukrainians
opposed to any deal-making with Russia. The protests were relatively short-lived, but
prospects for a negotiated end to the war in the eastern Donbas region became more remote in
light of this domestic opposition.
...
The supporters for war with Russia are ex-president Poroshenko and two parliamentary
factions, European Solidarity and Voice, whose supporters are predominantly located in
western Ukraine. Crucially, however, they can also rely on right-wing paramilitary groups
composed of veterans from the hottest phase of the war in Donbas in 2014-5.
Only some 20% of the Ukrainians are in favour of continuing the war against the eastern
separatists who Russia supports. During the presidential election Poroshenko received just 25%
of the votes. His party European Solidarity won 8.1% of the parliamentary election. Voice won
5.8%.
By pursuing further conflict with Russia the deep state of the United States wants to ignore
the wishes not only of the U.S. voters but also those of the Ukrainian electorate. That
undemocratic mindset is another point that unites them with the Ukrainian fascists.
Zelensky should ignore the warmongers in the U.S. embassy in Kiev and sue for immediate
peace with Russia. (He should also investigate
Biden's undue influence .) Reengaging with Russia is also the easiest and most efficient
step the Ukraine can take to lift its desolate economy.
It is in the national interest of both, the Ukraine and the United States.
Posted by b on November 14, 2019 at 18:23 UTC |
Permalink
next page " agree with mccarthy about who conducts foreign policy, disagree about who
the aggressor is; it's the USA, trying to weaken Russia, which is the aggressor.
thanks b... typo - immediate piece with Russia - 'peace' is the spelling here...
the comments from Kolomoisky in the recent nyt interview are very telling.. aside from
being a first rate kleptomaniac who will willingly play both sides if he can profit from it,
he is also speaking a moment of truth..for him Ukraine is available to the highest bidder...
he could give a rats ass about Ukraine or the people... but still, it is refreshing that the
NYT published his comments in this regard..
the quote "the Americans "will mess it up and get in the way." is very true... it was true
before kolomisky picked a side too.. this guy is very shrewd.. i wonder if his own country is
able to see thru him?
national interest.... yes, trump gets to decide and he won on the idea of having closer
relations with russia, but the cia-msm has been lambasting him and anyone else associated
with him since before the election over the clinton e mails... they have painted a scenario
that it is all russias fault and have been relentless in this portrayal... hoping trump is
going to turn this around is like hoping someone is going to turn the titanic around from
hitting a giant iceberg... the usa is too far gone and will be hitting the iceberg.. they are
in fact...
From NYT about Kolomo???? (spelling in English is highly variable)
George D. Kent, a senior State Department official, said he had told Mr. Zelensky that his
willingness to break with Mr. Kolomoisky -- "somebody who had such a bad reputation" -- would
be a litmus test for his independence. [If is good to be independent, i.e. to do what we
want.]
And William Taylor, the acting ambassador in Kiev, said he had warned Mr. Zelensky: "He,
Mr. Kolomoisky, is increasing his influence in your government, which could cause you to
fail." [La Paz is a fresh reminder for Kiev?]
Well the thing about Zelensky is he's still there, and he is making changes in Donbass.
Kolomoisky was interested in the fracked gas in Donbass, the completion of NordStream II
has made a mess of that idea. It is good that he has seen the light, as it means Zelensky
will have support in his attempts to adapt to reality. But Kolomoisky is still a crook no
doubt.
My immediate reaction was that Kolomoisky realises he has to act - the Ukrainian oligarchs
have got too close to America. I agree with James that he is a extremely clever man.
Ukraine's traditional business is playing both ends against the middle and sending the
proceeds to Switzerland (or the Caribbean in Porosyonok's case). Since 1990 a few of these
robber barons have made a very good business winding up the west against Russia, it could go
on ever - why spoil it by lifting the rock and seeing all the insects scurrying around in the
light?
Another rock that has been lifted is in Washington, where the khokhol diaspora are
desperately trying to get Uncle Sam to right the wrongs of a century ago.
"Deep state" is misleading and actually a false construction.
There is an Imperial State (the ruling faction)which consists of imperial apparatchiks
placed in every key position in government.
There is one and only one Western Empire and its deep state spreads throughout Western
governments and society. They are the owners oif the world and they run the world they
own.
... @ b -- "Only some 20% of the Ukrainians favor to continue the war against the eastern
separatists who Russia supports."
The are not 'separatists', but rather Ukrainians who want to stay in a federated Ukraine
as 'provinces' with powers to pass their regional laws, similar to those in Canada.
The segment of empire in the US that are against Russia act so because it was Russia that
stymied them in Syria and continues to be in their way of expanding the control from that
part of empire...the US segment.
I still believe that the global private finance core segment of empire is behind Trump and
throwing America(ns) under the bus as the world turns more multilateral. The cult of global
private finance intends on still having some overarching super-national role in the new
multilateral world and holding debt guns to everyones heads to make it ongoing.
I don't believe that strategy will work but as long as they can be fronted by a MAD player
of some sort (Occupied Palestine comes to mind) they can be bully players in international
matters.
As the world economies grind to a "halt" there will be lots of pressure everywhere and
very little clarity about the key civilization war over public/private finance, IMO
For a military dictatorship, diplomacy is the continuation of war by other means. The US has
been at war with Russia since the right-wing coup at the Democratic convention of 1944. All
presidents have been servants of the military, which includes the police/intel/security
apparatus; the few who did not entirely accept their figurehead role were "dealt with."
Kennedy, Nixon, Carter and now Trump. The Washington permanent state bureaucrats are shocked
and understandably offended; they have after all, been running US foreign policy for 75
years!
Wow! The depth of delusion on display is as breathtaking as its complete projection of the
intentions and actions of the Evil Outlaw US Empire! Oh so many saying I'm displaying four
fingers instead of two. Too bad there isn't a padded cell big enough to contain all the
lunatics. I recall the pre- and post-coup discussions from 2014--that Russia was going to
make NATO own Ukraine until it was forced to concede it has no business being there; that
Russia would teach the would-be leaders of Ukraine a serious lesson in where their national
interests lay. NATO is ready to cede and the lesson's been learned.
IMO, two referendums must be held. The first within Russia: Will you accept portions of
Ukraine wanting to merge with Russia: Yes/No? Second to be given within Ukraine provided Yes
wins in #1: Do you wish to join Russia or remain in Ukraine? IMO, this is a very longstanding
unresolved issue of consequence for the people involved. The political leaders of Russia and
Ukraine might both be against such a vote, but IMO that merely kicks the can further down the
road and opens the door for more mischief making by the Evil Outlaw US Empire. Assuming a Yes
from Russia and some from Ukraine, a strategic threat to Russia and Europe would be
mitigated. Additional questions about those parts of Ukraine not wanting to join Russia could
be solved via additional referenda in the Ukraine and neighboring nations that might prove
willing to absorb the remnants and their people. Such action would of course negate the Minsk
Agreements.
Given the ideological passions of those living in Western and Northern Ukraine, I don't
see any hope for the continuation of the Ukrainian state as currently arranged, thus the
proposed referenda. However, if Russia says Nyet, then Minsk must be implemented.
"Democracy" is not about letting the people as a whole have a say in how the country is
governed. That would be fascist, and racist, and populist, and LITERALLY HITLER. Letting the
people decide on things like foreign policy, is literally anti-democratic.
No, "Democracy" is about privatizing power and socializing responsibility. The elites get
to set the policy, but the public at large gets to take responsibility when things go wrong.
Because you see, we are a "Democracy."
Breaking off long established economic and cultural ties with a large neighbouring country,
virtually overnight, is a rash act, and certain to create dislocation and hardship. The
craziness of the idea was only achievable through the traumatizing psy-op of the sniper
event, leading directly to the coup and the state of war. The EU and the US were clearly
malevolent in orchestrating the Association agreement with its ridiculous terms and the
corresponding Maidan pressures.
The fools in Hong Kong, after protester-sponsored screenings of the World On Fire
documentary, were actually quoted as presuming the Maidan protests had "won" and expressed
their hopes that they too could "win". Good luck to them.
Kolomoisky and Zelensky know what needs to be done, but they fear the blood that will flow
with Nazi-Banderist scum! Zelinski's balls are not that big, and has no options left after
compromising his position from day one. Who will make the first move, I fear not him? Russia
has time, and patience, which is sorely lacking in the west who feel they have to push the
envelope.
The Minsk II protocol was agreed to on 12 February 2015 by the leaders of Ukraine, Russia,
France, and Germany, It included provisions for a halt in the fighting, the withdrawal of
foreign forces, new constitution to allow special status for Donbass, and election in Donbass
for local self governance. Control of the present border of Ukraine would be restored to the
Ukraine government. Donbass would continue to be in Ukraine with some autonomy here (scroll down).
There are many such autonomous zones in the world, and in Europe, seen here .
The problem in Ukraine is that the neo-Nazi factions promoted by the US don't want to see a
resolution, and will fight it with US support.
Kolomoysky is obviously a master thief and general scumbag...but he is no fool...
I think the writing on the wall became obvious with the Nordstream 2 finalization, where,
it is noted, Denmark came in just under the wire in terms of not disrupting the
timetable...
Obviously the interests of German business have prevailed...and rightly so in this
case...
And what of the famous EU line about 'protecting' Ukraine as a gas transit
corridor...?
LOLOLOL...that is in the same category of nothingburger as the EU noises about 'alternate
payment' mechanisms for trade with Iran...
As soon as the Denmark story broke, Gazprom and Russian energy analysts talked openly
about the tiny volumes that Ukraine could expect to see transiting its territory...as part of
a new agreement to replace the one that has expired...
It works out to a small fraction of the several billion dollars in transit fees the
Ukraine was getting...
Also considering that the IMF appears to be finally shutting off the tap of loans to this
failed gangster state...and that the promises from the EU in 2013 were just so much fairy
tales...hard-nosed operators like Kolomoysky are recalculating...
The chaos and national ruin has really cost these gangster capitalists nothing [in fact
they have profited wildly]...so it is easy for them to reverse course and come begging back
to Russia...
Bryan MacDonald has a good piece about this today in RT...
So, here we are, almost six years since the first "EuroMaidan" protests in Kiev, and
Ukraine's most prominent oligarch has finally voiced the unmentionable: the project has
failed.
As for Kolomoysky...like Trump, there is something to like about dirtballs who speak their
minds openly...LOL
Quite a turnaround by Kolomoisky. Wasn't he once caught on a tapped phone call admitting
while chuckling about Ukrainian complicity in shooting down MH-17? i.e. NOT Donbas rebels and
NOT Russia.
@12 karlof1... a referendum... as if the usa would agree to that, lol.... look how they
processed the one in crimea...
@18 flankerbandit... last line is true, but it pales in relation to the ugliness these 2
exhibit 99% of the time, although the 1% when they don't it's refreshing! ukraine will
continue to be used as a tool by the west..
forget about any referendum.. that makes too much sense and won't be allowed..
Nordstream 2 will come online in less than 2 months and the Ukrainian gas exports at that
time will cease (I.e. no oil for the Oligarchs to steal), no matter what the US says they
can't replace the Russian oil exports in terms of money & support to Ukraine, so the
Oligarchs are now positioning themselves to abandon the US in order for the Russians to keep
even a tiny bit of oil flowing into their pockets
It's a tough balancing act, being a Ukrainian oligarch. For two decades they stole what they
could from the Ukraine (and from perverting the various sweetheart deals Russia was
providing). Once the industry and energy money was stripped, and Russia started closing the
spigots, they managed to get the West to pump in ungodly amounts of cash so long as they
would agree to talk mean about Russia, and didn't mind the US machine taking its cut of the
loot.
But now the Ukrainian thieves are beginning to realize that the Western thieves are going
to steal the very ground from under their feet, so there will be no more Ukraine to steal
from. That's not a very good business model. Plus they're no doubt seeing how the US treats
its partners in crime in Syria and elsewhere, and realize they could easily find themselves
the next meal for the US beast. Pretty easy to see why the smarter ones are getting
nervous.
they need to make peace with Russia or they will be left out in the cold, literally. They
seemed to have previously bought into some insane lie that they'd be a part of the EU and
NATO if theyd do Washington's bidding. The Deep state vastly underestimated Putin's resolve
when it became clear to the Russians that Washington may try and turn Crimea into a NATO port
one day. The game is over. Ukraine needs to find a way forward now for itself or it will be a
failed state in the near future. It's clear Merkel and Europe want no part of this headache
I don't think Russians want to 'own' any part of Ukraine...at least that is the nearly
unanimous opinion of my own contacts and colleagues in Russia...so I don't think any
referenda will be on the table...
What I do think is possible is what Yanukovich and Russia agreed to in terms of a trade
and economic deal...which was a lot more practical [not to mention generous] than the EU
'either or' nonsense...
Ukraine has run itself into the ground, literally...now they are selling vast tracts of
agricultural land to huge Euro agribusiness concerns...literally dispossessing themselves of
their own food security...
At the time of the Soviet dissolution, Ukraine had the highest living standards and some
of the world's prime industry and technology...including for instance the Yuzhnoye design
bureau [rocket engines and spacecraft] and many more such cutting edge aerospace
concerns...
For years these crucial enterprises were able to keep going due to the Russian
market...that all ended in 2014 [and in fact was tapering off even before due to the massive
corruption]...
Now the Chinese are looking to scoop up these gems at firesale prices...
It is really quite unbelievable that the nutcases in the Ukraine would be willing to cut
off their own arm just to bleed on Russia's shirt...
Why did the Ukraine never recover from the gangster capitalism like Russia did...because
no Putin ever came along to reign in the oligarchy...[It could be argued Putin hasn't done
nearly enough in this regard].
The Ukraine is actually a preview of what we can expect to see in our own future...as the
unleashed oligarchy similarly runs everything into the ground in order to extract maximal
wealth for a parasite elite...already we are nothing but a Ponzi Scheme on the verge of
toppling...
Kolomoisky is talking his book and helping USA to make the case that Nordstream is a NATO
security issue. To pretend that he's serious about a rapproachment with Russia just plays
into that effort.
And b ignores my comment on the prior thread that he references (about Trump being
Constitutionally charged with foreign policy). Repeating: the "Imperial Presidency" has flung
off Constitutional checks and balances by circumventing the need to get Congressional
approval for spending. Wars (like Syria) are now be funded by Gulf Monarchies, black ops, and
black budgets.
While for practical reasons the Executive Branch of USA government has the power to
negotiate treaties and manage foreign relations, Constitutionally he does so for the
sovereign (the American people) and his efforts are subject to review and approval of the
people's representatives via the power of the purse.
Ignoring how the "Imperial Presidency" has usurped power leads to faulty analysis that
supports that power grab.
Ukrainegate IS a farce, but for other reasons. Chief among them being the inherent fakery
of 'managed democracy' which manifests as kayfabe.
There is an Imperial State (the ruling faction)which consists of imperial apparatchiks
placed in every key position in government.
There is one and only one Western Empire and its deep state spreads throughout Western
governments and society. They are the owners of the world and they run the world they
own.
Nicely put:- that is the reality. Thanks b for your intrepid reports.
Paul Craig Roberts has a deeply aggrieved rant at zero hedge if barflies want a chuckle.
What a shitshow.
Crimea?
It has been part of Russia about as long as the USA has been a country.
9 out of 10 residents are of Russian origin, and Russian is the spoken language.
I guess it could be returned to the 10%-- but out of fairness, we must turn the USA over to
its original occupants.
If you live in the USA, get your ass ready to leave.
One of the problems that the anti-nazis face in Ukraine is that there are occupying armies in
the country. Armies which cannot be trusted to obey instructions which are not agreed upon by
NATO warmongers.
One such army is Canadian, commanded I believe by a descendant of the Ukrainian SS refugees
and reporting to the Foreign Minister in Ottawa, a Russophobe with a family background of
nazi collaboration.
The actual political situation is much more delicate than media reports suggest: what are
called elections feature, in the Washington approved fashion, the banning of socialist and
communist candidates. Bans which are enforced by a combination of fascist commanded police
forces and, even less responsible, private nazi militias. Opponents of the Maidan regime are
driven into exile, jailed or murdered.
Those who wonder as Jackrabbit, in a rare essay into rationality, does above, about the
nature of the US Constitution after decades of the erosion of checks and balances thanks to
the Imperial Presidency, will recognise that a dialectic is at work here. Washington's
support for fascism abroad has instituted fascism at home which has led in turn to the
installation of fascist regimes abroad, not just occasionally but routinely. Wherever the US
intervenes it leaves a fascist regime, in which socialists are banned and persecuted, behind
it.
And what this means is that, among other things, the ability of the population to effect
political change is cancelled: there is no way that the people of Ukraine can decide what
they want because the decisions have been taken for them, in weird cult like gatherings of SS
worshiping Bandera supporters in Toronto and Chicago. It is no accident that most of the
'Ukrainians' being wheeled out by the Democrats to testify against Trump are actually greedy
expatriates who have never really lived in Ukraine.
There was a moment, not long ago, when it looked as if the Minsk accords promised a path to
peace and reconciliation. Unfortunately the plain people of Ukraine, the poorest in Europe
though living in one of the richest countries, Washington, Ottawa and NATO didn't like the
sound of Minsk. Nor did the fascists in the Baltic states and Poland, for whom, for
centuries, Ukraine has been a cow to milk, its people slaves to be exploited and its rich
resources too tempting to ignore.
As Thomas Jefferson explained the President's role in foreign affairs in 1790, and the lack
of advisors' policy making decisions: ''as the President was the only channel of
communication between the United States and foreign nations, it was from him alone 'that
foreign nations or their agents are to learn what is or has been the will of the nation';
that whatever he communicated as such, they had a right and were bound to consider 'as the
expression of the nation'; and that no foreign agent could be 'allowed to question it,' or
'to interpose between him and any other branch of government, under the pretext of either's
transgressing their functions.' Mr. Jefferson therefore declined to enter into any discussion
of the question as to whether it belonged to the President under the Constitution to admit or
exclude foreign agents. 'I inform you of the fact,' he said, 'by authority from the
President.'
Might also be worth yesterdays hero's asking if dear Mr Kolomoisky, joint Uki/Israeli
national, took a part in authorising the shoot down of MH17 as a news cover for Operation
Protective Edge. Heave ho zionist USA ....et al.
1.The decisions to with hold and release aid have nothing to do with the President making
foreign policy but with his campaign. Saying it was about foreign policy is a damned lie.
2.Trump as president is supposed to lead foreign policy, which means actually setting a
policy. Military aid to Ukraine, yes, except no, except yes, personal handling without asking
anybody with experience how to achieve the national goal desired, national agenda kept secret
from the people who have to carry it out, abuse of officials, demands for dubiously legal
actions without rationale...Saying it was about the president's executive role is a damned
lie.
3.Trump has not made even a tweet that questions US support for fascists. That not even a
issue for Trump. Saying this is about support for fascism is a damned lie.
4.Kolomoyskiy is a bankroller of fascists. It is not impossible even a billionaire might get
frightened by the genie he's let out of the bottle, even if he's Jewish and rich enough to
run away. But actually undoing the fascist regime means taming the paramilitaries and this is
not even on the horizon. Given the rivalry between Poroshenko and Kolomoyskiy it's not even
certain it's a real change of heart or just soothing words for the non-fascist people. Nor is
it even clear the Zelensky will follow even the Steinmeier formula. If he does, good, but
until something actually happens? Saying it's about the antifascist turn is a damned lie.
The only thing that isn't a lie is that Trump was not committing treasons, "merely" a
campaign violation. But then, Clinton never did either. The crybabies who dished it out but
can't take it deserve zero respect, and zero time.
Curious to know how Kolomoisky is working "feverishly" to end the war in the Donbass region.
Wonder if he is planning to come clean on what he knows of the Malaysia Airlines MH17
shootdown and crash in an area not far from Slavyansk and near where his Privat Group's
subsidiary company Burisma Holdings holds a licence to drill for oil and natural gas. What
does he know about Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control personnel's direction to MH17
to fly at 10,000 metres in the warzone and not an extra 1,000 metres above as the flight crew
had requested? He had been governor of Dnepropetrovsk region at the time.
Somewhere I read it alleged that the actual owner of Burisma was or is Kolomoiski.
Anything to this?
And via John Helmer (via Checkpointasia and dances with bears) comes the perspective that
it's not so much Kolomoiski floating trial balloons (though that may also be true) but that K
is being given space in the NYT to build his credentials as the new Borg villain, thereby
making it still harder for Zelensky to reconcile with Russia.
fb @ 25 said;"The Ukraine is actually a preview of what we can expect to see in our own
future...as the unleashed oligarchy similarly runs everything into the ground in order to
extract maximal wealth for a parasite elite...already we are nothing but a Ponzi Scheme on
the verge of toppling..."
Yup, aided and abetted by our current regime, while pretending not to...
@23
"It's a tough balancing act, being a Ukrainian oligarch. For two decades they stole what they
could from the Ukraine (and from perverting the various sweetheart deals Russia was
providing). Once the industry and energy money was stripped, and Russia started closing the
spigots, they managed to get the West to pump in ungodly amounts of cash so long as they
would agree to talk mean about Russia, and didn't mind the US machine taking its cut of the
loot."
This is it in a nutshell. The Russians were fed up with Ukraine stealing gas. Hence, Nord
Stream 2. That was always the plan. Whether the Yanks truly grasped the rationale here
---Russia is cutting off gas to Ukraine, simple---has never been clear to me. Although it is
a fairly simple plot. The Russians had decades of shenanigans with the Ukes and said Basta.
By not overreacting to the Ukrainian-USA freakout and keeping their eyes on the prize (Nord
Stream and disengaging, gas-wise, from Uk), they have managed to reach their goal of getting
Nord Stream 2 online.
Kolomoiski is the bankroller and commander of the Azov Battalion. Has close arrangements with
other paramilitaries. And is the current principal of Burisma. And is Privatbank, the only
bank left in Ukraine. He gets a cut of all the action.
When Trump queries Zelensky, all that Zelensky is thinking is this guy does not know the
score. This guy does not know who's on first. He wants me to investigate the boss? Let him
talk to the boss. And who does Z talk to in D.C.? Pointless getting into detail with
Trump.
Trump has no team. No one in D.C. is on his side. He's unable to finish anything.
1) Say the fantasy happens and the US/Russia become BFFs like US/UK...
- Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss?
- Tough to answer, many unknowns- Russia may act different once its on top, actors may
derail schemes, Deep State temper tantrum, etc...
In general, governments are the order-providing solution for chaos and problems that only
first existed inside the minds of those seeking power over others.
Kolomoiski is a U.S. asset. His interview with the NYTimes proves it.
His threats are meant to mobilize NATO and Russia haters in general; because Trump and
most of his cadre care nothing for Ukraine.
Does anyone think Russia will give Kolomoiski 100 million dollars? Why was he given an
opportunity to threaten the USA? For no reason? Something else is afoot but Russia still
won't take the bait because they are winning.
Russia is quite happy with the status quo. The war in Ukraine keeps the war against Russia
on a level which is easy to manipulate and therefore geostrategically beneficial. Kolomoiski
will get nothing.
Thank you, b, for that snippet from NY Interview with Kolomoisky . I had glanced the headline
on RT but didn't read it because of RT's usual clumsy writing.
Kolomoiski is taunting the empire: investigate my crimes and
ukraine will seek reconciliation and alliance with russia.
Russia won't fall for it. They want kolomoiski's scalp even
more than the empire. From the statements putin has made, maybe
the only concession russia would accept is the dissolution of
ukraine as a sovereign entity and reintegration with russia, minus galicia.
Putin has remarked that they are not one people but one state. Ukraine
already knows that its domestic industry is only viable in competition
with the eu industrial powerhouses if it is integrated with russia.
What does [Kolomoysky] know about Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control
personnel's direction to MH17 to fly at 10,000 metres in the warzone and not an extra 1,000
metres above as the flight crew had requested?
Okay..so an interesting can of worms here...
First is the fact that Kolomoysky was the governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast at the
time...
Now as to the flight and Dnipro Radar [the regional air traffic control facility that
controls a very big chunk of airspace over eastern Ukraine]...
First the issue of the airplane cruising altitude...the crew had filed their flight plan
to climb from flight level 330 [33,000 ft] to FL350 after passing a certain waypoint in
eastern Ukraine...
Now the controllers did instruct the crew to go ahead and climb to their planned altitude,
but the crew declined the clearance and opted to stay at FL330...this was done very
likely because the atmospheric conditions at that height were better for fuel economy...
[To be even more specific...the Boeing manual gave an optimum flight altitude of 33,800
ft, but flying eastward you only have odd numbered flight levels to choose from, so the crew
figured they would be better off staying at 33 than climbing to 35...]
BUT...there are a couple of very curious things here...
First is the fact that Dnipro controllers deviated the airplane from its flight
plan just before it went down...ostensibly due to other traffic...
We can see this in the following map, which is what's called a high altitude en route
chart, which is used by pilots to plan and execute their flight...
You will note a couple of things here...the airplane is flying on the L980 airway
[basically a highway in the sky] when it is turned south by controllers to the RND waypoint,
which is in Russian territory...
This is NOT the route filed by the crew...which can be seen here...
They were supposed to continue flying on L980 right to the TAMAK waypoint, which is
visible on the previous chart and is right on the border with Russia...
They would have continued on the A87 airway to their next waypoint in Russia which is
TIKNA...
Now here is the thing...right after they were turned south, they got shot down...
According to the radio transcripts, the crew acknowledged the course change, but did not
object...however, usually these kinds of course changes aren't appreciated on the flight deck
because the crew is trying to minimize wasted time and wasted fuel on course
deviations...
Most times you will just not bother to complain to controllers...but for sure there will
always be chatter between the captain and copilot about being yanked around like that...
No mention is made in the Dutch Safety Board report about such chatter from the cockpit
voice recorder, which I find very odd...
Also odd is the fact that Dnipro ATC primary radar was down, and only the so-called
'secondary' was working which uses the transponder signals from the airplane...
This is very busy airspace because a lot of flights from western Europe to South Asia
traverse this territory...the plan is always to fly what's called a 'great circle route'
which is basically a straight line, if you flattened out the globe...
Plus considering that you have a war going on underneath...it's very unusual to have your
PRIMARY radar inoperable...
This is significant also because military aircraft will not be using transponders and so
will not be visible to the secondary surveillance...
The Russian primary radar did pick up two other aircraft very nearby MH17...but the Dutch
have made some kind of excuse about that data not being in 'raw' form and thus not
usable...
So we see some very suspicious anomalies here...
The Ukrainian authorities did have a NOTAM [notice to airmen] in effect up to FL320
[32,000 ft] so commercial traffic could not fly under that height...but clearly they should
have closed the airspace over the hot conflict area...
They didn't do that...and Kolomoysky was in charge...
The Deep State's view on the members' God given right to make foreign policy decisions (it
must be the God who has give it to them, because the people certainly have not) just reminds
the of the general attitude of the Government's bureaucracy. Give any fartbag a position in
the government and he/she becomes "a prince/princes over the people", give him or her a
monopoly over violence and you got yourself a king/queen. All these police and military kings
& queens milling around and lording over us. "Deep State" is such a totally natural
consequence of the government bureaucracy corrupted by power that it appropriated.
Pillaging taxes from the sheeple (and taking young maidens like Sheriff of
Nottingham/Epstein) could have never ever been enough. Did you seriously think that the Deep
Staters would constrain themselves to only stealing your money, taking your children for
their pleasure and to die in their wars of conquest, and putting you into a totally unsafe
airplanes to die for their profit? Constrain themselves when there is a whole globe out there
to be lorded over, like Bidens over Ukraine? It is the poor people of Ukraine who just have
too much money, thus had to give it through the gas monopoly to the Biden gang, which
selflessly brought them "democracy" at $5B in US taxpayers' expense. Therefore, it is the
Deep State which has been chosen by God, or someone just like that, to make the decisions
about the imperialist/globalist foreign policy and have billions of dollars thrown by the
grateful natives into their own pockets, as consulting fees:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/leaked-bank-records-confirm-burisma-biden-payments-morgan-stanley-account
So far the only clear-cut globalization is that one of crime, which has become
global.
What is the US National Interest b asks? Who defines it as such?
Ome magazine that might know is none other than The National Interest. Hopefully I won't
get attacked for quoting from what seems like a fairly sane article to me....
"The US should consider whom they are giving weapons to. Ukraine is a debt-ridden state
and only five years beyond an extralegal revolution. Should the government collapse again,
then American weapons could end up in the possession of any number of dubious paramilitary
groups.
It wouldn't be the first time. In the 2000s, CIA operatives were forced to repurchase
Stinger missiles that had fallen into the hands of Afghani warlords -- at a markup.
Originally offered to the Mujahideen in the 1980s, the Stingers came to threaten American
forces in the region. Similarly, many weapons provided with US authorization to Libyan rebels
in 2011 ended up in the possession of jihadists."
It's difficult to find clean information on happenings within Ukraine and those involving
Russia. The Ministry of Foreign affairs has this page
dedicated to the "Situation Around Ukraine." Of the three most recent listings,
this one --"Comment by Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova on the NATO
Council's visit to Ukraine"--from 1 November is quite important as it deals with the reality
on the ground versus the circus happening thousands of miles away, although it's clear the
delusions in Washington and Brussels are the same and "continue to be guided by the Cold War
logic of exaggerating the nonexistent 'threat from the East' rather than the interests of
pan-European security."
In the
second most recent listing --"Remarks by Deputy Permanent Representative of the Russian
Federation to the OSCE Vladimir Zheglov at the OSCE Permanent Council meeting on the
situation in Ukraine and the need to implement the Minsk Agreements, Vienna, October 31,
2019"--the following was noted:
"There's more to it. The odious site Myrotvorets continues to function using servers
located in the United States. The UN has repeatedly stated that this violates the presumption
of innocence and the right to privacy. Recently, Deputy Head of the UN Human Rights
Monitoring Mission in Ukraine, Benjamin Moreau, reiterated the recommendation to shut down
this website. A similar demand was made by other representatives of the international
community, including the German government. The problem was brought to the attention of the
European Court of Human Rights. The other day, the representative of Ukraine at the ECHR was
made aware of the groundlessness of the Ukrainian government's excuses saying that it
allegedly 'has no influence' on the above website.
"In closing, recent opinion polls in Ukraine indicate that its residents are expecting the
government to do more to bring peace to Donbas. The path to a settlement is well known, that
is, the full implementation of the Minsk Package of Measures of February 12, 2015, that was
approved by the UN Security Council."
Clearly, Zelensky's government is much like Poroschenko's when it comes to listening to
those who empowered it, the above citation is one of several from the overall report.
The latest report deals with an ongoing case at the International Court of Justice at The
Hague that reveals some of the anti-Russian bias there. It has no bearing on this discussion,
although it does provide evidence of the contextual background against which the entire
affair, including the circus in Washington, operates.
MoA consensus is Minsk backed NATO and its Ukrainian minions into a corner from which
there's only one way out, which is the implementation of the Accords they continue to oppose
to implement despite their promise to do so. Clearly an excellent example of not being
agreement capable that hasn't changed since 2015.
If the Republicans had any brains, they'd turn the Ukrainian aspect of the hearings into
an indictment against Obama/Biden for illegally overthrowing Kiev and trying to obtain their
piece-of-the-action, but then that would be the logical thing to do and thus isn't an option.
The prospect of each day providing similar spectacle is mind numbing as it airs the sordid,
unwashed underwear if the Evil Outlaw US Empire.
I normally do not reply to trolls, but I make an exception for you. Pedo-dollar? Do you have
any more such crap to dilute the valid points discussed here?
i liked what @ 32 tod said - "he's just doing the old Jewish threatening/begging
dance!
"And you are forcing us to be at war, and not even giving us the money for it." Wink!
Wink!"
stating the obvious is one remedy for any possible confusion here..
@54 karlof1... i don't believe trump is allowed to shine any light on the usas illegal
actions as that would be sacrilege to all the americans who see their country in such a
great, exceptional-ist light... how would trumps MAGA concept swallow that? it wouldn't, so
it won't happen...
You are a bit off on that story. NS2 pipeline will increase the capacity not transitioning
via Ukraine and reduce the price banditry by the Ukrainian & US gangs, but it will not
make gas transit via Ukraine unnecessary. The planned switch off of the German nuclear and
coal power plants will gradually increase the German demand for gas, that is the Russian gas
by so much that NS1 and NS2 will not be enough. Primarily, NS2 is a signal to the Ukrainian
& US Democrat gangs that if they try excessive transit fees and stealing of gas again,
that they will be circumvented within a few years by NS 3,4,5 ...
BTW, the globalized pillaging of the population is clearly not an invention of the DNC
crime gang only. For example, the 737Max is a product of primarily Republican activity on
deregulating what should have never been deregulated and subjugation to the Wall Street (aka
financialization). The pillaging of the World is strictly bipartisan, just differently
packaged:
1) R - packaging the deregulation to steal & kill as "freedom" or
2) D - packaging the regime change as responsibility to protect R2P (such regime change and
stuffing of own pockets later).
karlof1 @54 - "Minsk backed NATO and its Ukrainian minions into a corner from which
there's only one way out, which is the implementation of the Accords"
Yes. As you well know, and as we have well discussed, Minsk was in its very essence the
surrender terms dictated to the US by NAF and Russia in return for letting the NATO
contractors go free and secretly out of the Debaltsevo cauldron. Either actually or
poetically, this was the basis. The US lost against NAF. The only way to prevent Donbass
incursion into the rest of Ukraine was to freeze the situation. The US had no choice, and
surrendered.
Out of the heat and fog of warfare came a simple document made of words which, even so,
illustrated perfectly just how elegantly the Kremlin had the entire situation both war-gamed
and peace-gamed. Minsk from that day until forever has locked the Ukraine play into a lost
war of attrition for the US sponsors, with zero gain - except for thieves.
To attempt to parse Ukraine in terms of statecraft is to miss the point that Ukraine can
only be parsed in terms of thievery. This is not cynicism, simply truth.
Now they sell their land because this is all there is left to sell. Kolomoisky proposes
selling the entire country to Russia for $100 billion but not only will Russia not bite, the
country isn't worth even a fraction of that - because of Minsk, it can cause zero harm to
Russia. But this ploy raises the perceived value (Kolomoisky hopes) in the eyes of the west,
and starts the bidding.
In Russia the people see all this very clearly, including on their TV. Yakov Kedmi in this
Vesti News clip of
Vladimir Soloviev's hugely popular talk show, discusses the situation. He baits Soloviev by
saying that the Ukrainian thieves are only doing what the Russian thieves did in the 1990's -
and one must filter through this badinage to take out the nuggets he supplies. Here are
three:
1. Zelensky has no security apparatus that follows his command, therefore how can he be
considered the leader of the country?
2. There is no power in Ukraine, only forces that contend over the scraps of plunder.
3. These forces are creating the only law there is, which is the sacred nature of private
property for the rich - the only thing the US holds sacred.
Therefore sell the very soil.
~~
The Minsk agreement is a sheer wall of ice reaching to the sky. No force imaginable can
scale it or break it. Against that ultimate, immovable wall the US pounds futilely, with
Ukraine caught in the middle, while Russia waits for Ukraine to devolve into whatever it
can.
And the Russian people and government regard the people of the Ukraine as brothers and
sisters. But until the west has worn itself down, and either gone away or changed the
equation through a weakening of its own position in some significant way, nothing can be done
by Russia except to wait.
What Tod @32 described is spot-on, "the old Jewish threatening/begging dance". It is not that
the Russians do not know this about Kolomoyskyi. They will play along not expecting anything
from the Zelo-on-a-String and his master. The Russians like to let those scumbags (Erdo comes
to mind) huff & puff and embarrass themselves by flips. They know - it could always be
worse if those did something intelligent. Kolomoyskyi is vile but he ain't no genius, not any
more than Erdo.
Sure Cheeza...everybody's a 'bit off' except you...
Gazprom is talking about 10 bcm a year through Ukraine for the new 10 year deal, as
opposed to the 60 bcm [billion cubic meters] that Ukraine is hoping for...
"Deep state" is misleading and actually a false construction.
There is an Imperial State (the ruling faction/)which consists of imperial apparatchiks
placed in every key position in government. Babyl-on @ 8
? before I begin , how do you measure the political and economic power of money
as opposed to the political and economic power of the intentions and needs of the masses.
Does $1 control a 100 people? A million dollars control 100,000,000 people? How do we measure
the comparative values between money power and people power? I think the divisions of
economics and the binaries of politics established by the nation state system means that the
measurement function (political and economic values) varies as a function of the total wealth
vs the total population in each nation state. If true, become obvious how it is that: foreign
investments displaces the existing homeostatis in any particular nation state, the smaller
the poorer the nation state, the more impact foreign wealth can have; in other words outside
wealth can completely destroy the homeostatis of an existing nation state. I think it is this
fact which makes globalization so attractive to the ruling interest (RI) and so damning to
the poorest of the poor.
Change by amendment is impossible There is one and only one Western Empire but
there is also an Eastern Empire, a southern empire, and a Northern Empire and I believe the
ruling interest (faction) manipulate all nations through these empires. In fact, they can do
this in any nation they wish. The world has been divided into containers of humans and
propaganda and culture have highly polarized the humans in one container against the humans
in other containers. <=divide, polarize, then exploit: its like pry the window, and gain
access to the residence, then exploit. It is obvious that the strength of the resistance to
ruling class exploitation is a function of common cause among the masses. But money allows to
control both the division of power and the polarization of the masses. The persons who have
the powers described in Article II of the US Constitution since Lincoln was murdered can be
controlled (Epstein, MSM directed propaganda, impeachment, assassination, to accomplish the
objects of the ruling interest (faction). Article II of the USA constitution removes foreign
activity of the USA from domestic view of the governed at home Americans. Article II makes it
possible for the POTUS to use American assets and resources to assist his/her feudal lords in
exploiting foreign nations almost at will and there is no way governed Americans can control
who the ruling interest place in the Article II position.
A little History Immigration to NYC from Eastern (the poor) and Western (the
rich) Europe transitioned NYC and other cities from Irish majority to a Jewish majority; and
the wealthy interest used the Jewish majorities in key cities to take control over both
Article I and Article II constitutional powers by electing field effect controlled
politicians (political puppets are elected that can be reprogrammed while they are in office
to suit the ruling interest. The source code is called rule of law, and money buys the
programmers who write the code. So the ruling interest can reprogram in field effect fashion,
any POTUS they wish. Out of sight use of the resources of America in foreign lands is nothing
new, it was established when the constitution was written in Philadelphia in 1787 and
ratified in 1788.
Propaganda targeted to the Jewish Immigrants allowed the wealthy interest to
control the outcome of the 1912 election. That election allowed to destroy Article I,
Section 9, paragraph 4 " No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid unless in
Proportion to the Census of enumeration herein before directed to be taken". and to enact a
law which privatized the USA monopoly on money into the hands of private bankers (the federal
reserve act of 1913)
What was the grand design Highly competitive, independent too strong economic
Germany was interfering with Western hegemony and the oil was in the lands controlled by the
Ottomans. It took two wars, but Germany was destroyed, and the Ottoman empire (basically the
entire Middle East) became the war gained property of the British (Palestine), the French
(Syria) and the USA (Israel). Since then, the ruling interest have used their (field effect
devices to align governments so the wealthy could pillage victim societies the world over.
Field effect programming allows wealth interest to use the leaders of governments to use such
governments to enable pillage in foreign places. The global rich and powerful, and their
corporations are the ruling interest.
psychohistorian says it well "..the global private finance core segment of empire is
behind Trump and throwing America(ns) under the bus as the world turns more multilateral. The
cult of global private finance intends on still having some overarching super-national role
in the new multilateral world and holding debt guns to everyone's heads to make it
ongoing..." by psychochistorian @ 10
NOBITs @ 11 says it also "All presidents have been servants of the military, which includes
the police/intel/security apparatus; the few who did not entirely accept their figurehead
role were "dealt with." Kennedy, Nixon, Carter and now Trump. The Washington permanent state
bureaucrats are shocked and understandably offended; they have after all, been running US
foreign policy for 75 years!" by: NOBTS @ 11
According to TG @ 13 "Democracy" is about privatizing power and socializing
responsibility. The elites get to set the policy, but the public at large gets to take
responsibility when things go wrong. Because you see, we are a "Democracy."by: TG @ 13 <=
absolutely not.. the constitution isolates governed Americans from the USA, because the USA
is a republic and republics are about privatizing power and socializing responsibility;
worse, there ain't nothing you can do about it.
Vonu @ 19 says "According to Kevin Shipp, the National Security Council really runs the
executive branch, not the president. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=XHbrOg092GA"
by: Vonu @ 19 <=but it is by the authority of Ariicle II that the NSC has the power to run
the executive branch?
KAdath @ 22 says "the Oligarchs are now positioning themselves to abandon the US in
order for the Russians to keep even a tiny bit of oil flowing into their pockets by: Kadath @
22" <=exactly.. but really its not abandoning the USA, its abandoning the oligarchs local
to the pillaged nation..
J Swift @ 23 says "the US treats its partners in crime in Syria and elsewhere,"
[poorly] but its not the USA per say, because only one person has the power to deal in
foreign places. Its that the POTUS, or those who control the Article II powers vested in the
POTUS, have or has been reprogrammed.. J. Switft @23>>
flankerbandit @ 25 says " Ukraine has run itself into the ground, literally...now they
are selling vast tracts of agricultural land to huge Euro agribusiness concerns...literally
dispossessing themselves of their own food security..." flankerbandit @ 25 <=Not really
the wealthy (investor interest) have pushed the pillage at will button.. since there is no
resistance remaining, the wealthy will take it all for a song..
Jackrabbit @ 26 says "Trump [is].. Constitutionally charged with foreign policy. Repeating:
the "Imperial Presidency" has flung off Constitutional checks and balances by circumventing
the need to get Congressional approval for spending. Wars (like Syria) are now be funded by
Gulf Monarchies, black ops, and black budgets.by Jackrabbit @ 26 <== Trumps orders
military to take 4 million day from Syria in oil?
your observation that the money has circumvented Article I of the COUS explains why the
democraps are so upset.. the wealthy democrap interest has been left to rot? Your comment
suggest s mafia is in charge?
Tod @ 32 says "As soon as some money goes his way, he'll discover democracy again.
Sorry to burst you bubbles." by: Tod @ 32" <==understatement of the day.. thanks.
Bevin @ 32 says "a dialectic is at work here. Washington's support for fascism abroad
has instituted fascism at home which has led in turn to the installation of fascist regimes
abroad, not just occasionally but routinely. Wherever the US intervenes it leaves a fascist
regime, in which socialists are banned and persecuted, behind it. this means.. the ability of
the population to effect political change is cancelled" by bevin @ 33 <= yes but there is
really no difference in a republic and its rule of law, and a fascist government and its
military police both rule without any influential input from the governed.
michael @ 34 reaffirms "The President was the only channel of communication between the
United States and foreign nations, it was from him alone 'that foreign nations or their
agents are to learn what is or has been the will of the nation'" michael @ 34 well known to
barflies, the design of national constitutions is at the heart of the global problem. Until
constitutional powers are placed in control of the governed there will never be a change in
how the constitutional powers ( in case of the USA Article II powers) are used and
abused.
OutofThinAir @45 says "In general, governments are the order-providing solution for
chaos and problems that only first existed inside the minds of those seeking power over
others.by: OutOfThinAir @ 45" <+governments are the tools of wealth interest and the
governors their hired hands.
by: War is Peace @48 " Trump is a moron, groomed by Jewish parents ( Mother was Jewish,
Father buried at biggest Jewish cementary in NYC ) to be a non-Jew worked for the mob under
Cohen ( lawyer for 1950's McCarthy ); Became the 'Goyim Fool" real estate developer as a
cover for laundering mob money. So that it didn't appear that it was Jewish Mafia Money, so
they could work with the Italian Mafia. Trump went on for his greatest role ever to be the
"fool in Chief" of the USA for AIPAC. What better way to murder people, than send out a fool,
it causes people to drop their guard. by War is Peace @48 <= yes this is my take, What
does it mean. com suggest the global wealth interest may be planning to reprogram Trump to
better protect the interest of the global wealthy.
Kiza @ 51 the reason for globalization is explained see above=> response to Babyl-on @
8
dh @ 53 says ""The US should consider whom they are giving weapons to." by dh @53 <
the USA cannot consider anything, if its foreign the POTUS (Article II) makes all decisions
because Art II gives the POTUS a monopoly on talking to, and dealing with, foreign
governments.
Deagel @ 56 says "The American people don't care, they're all drugged out, and shitting
on the side-walks all over the USA, and sleeping in their own shit. This is the best time in
USA history for the Zionists to do anything they wish." by: Deagel @ 56 <= I think you
under estimate the value Americans place on democracy and human rights, until recently
governed Americans believed the third party privately produced MSM delivered propaganda that
nearly all overseas operations by the USA were to separate the people in those places from
their despotic leaders, and to help those displaced people install Democracy.. many Americans
have come to understand such is far from the case.. the situation in the Ukraine has been an
eye opener for many Americans. thoughts are sizzling, talk is happening, and people are
trying to shut google out of their lives. that is why i think Trump is about to be
reprogrammed from elected leader to .. God in charge
I watched that Soloviev segment with Kedmi the other day...always interesting to say the
least...
Btw...I'm not really up to speed on that whole Debaltsevo cauldron thing...I've heard
snippets here and there...[there is a guy, Auslander, who comments on the Saker blog that
seems to have excellent first hand info, but I've only caught snippets here and there]...
I hadn't heard this part of the story before about Nato contractors as bargaining
chips...if you care to shed a bit more light I will be grateful...
I suggest going to The Saker Blog and
enter Debaltsevo Cauldron into the site's search box and click Submit where you'll be greeted
with numerous results.
Grieved @62--
Thanks for your reply and excellent recap. As I recall, Putin wants Donbass to remain in
Ukraine and Ukraine to remain a whole state, although I haven't read his thoughts on the
matter for quite some months as everything has revolved around implementing Minsk. The items
at the Foreign Ministry I linked to are also concerned with Minsk.
The circus act in DC is trying to avoid any mention of Minsk, the coup or anything
material to the gross imperial meddling done there to enrich the criminal elite, which
includes Biden, Clinton, other DNC members--a whole suite of actors that omits Trump in this
case, although they're trying to pin something on him. The issue being studiously ignored is
Obama/Biden needed to be busted for their actions at the time, but in time-honored fashion
weren't. And the huge rotted sewer of corruption related to that action and ALL that came
before is the real problem at issue.
Typical reaction of a zelf-zentered person as evidenced by The New Yorker 737Max article
in the previous thread. This good article could only be measured by how much it agrees with
your own opinion that MCAS was put in to mimic the pilots' usual fly-stick feel. If anyone
does his home work, such as the journalist of this article, then he must agree with you,
right? With experts such as you out there, why would anyone dare apply common sense and say
that it would be an unimaginably stupid idea to put in ANY AUTOMATED SYSTEM which pushes
the plane's nose down during ascent (the most risky phase of a civilian flight, when almost
desperately trying to get up and up and up) for any DUMBLY POSSIBLE REASON !? What could
ever go wrong with such an absolutely dumbly initiated system relying on one sensor? Maybe it
was a similar idea to putting a cigarette lighter right next to the car's gas tank because it
lights up cigarettes better when there are gasoline vapors around. Or maybe an idea of
testing the self-driving lithium battery (exploding & flammable) cars near kindergartens
(of some other people's children)!?
An intelligent person would have said - whatever the reason was to put in MCAS it was a
terribly dumb idea, instead of congratulating himself on understanding the "true reason".
"If I were president, while I would resist gratuitous provocations, I would not publicly
associate myself with the delusion that stable friendship is possible (or, frankly,
desirable) with Putin's anti-American dictatorship, which runs its country like a Mafia
family and is acting on its revanchist ambitions."
Really?
From what have gleaned from the alternative media available on the internet ,of which MOA is
an important part. Putin and Lavrov are the two most moral and diplomatic statesmen on the
world stage today Compared to Trump, Johnson, Macron, Merkel, Stoltenberg, Pompeo, Bolton and
whoever else blights the international scene these days these two are colossi.
To describe
them as like a Mafia family seems to me to be 180 degrees wrong. Maybe Putin overreacted, in
his early days in power, to the Chechen conflict but look at the situation today.
Look at how
Gorbachev and Yeltsin were played by the west. I appreciate you did not write the words
quoted above but you said you agree with them and I find that startling given I am usually
very admiring of your insight and knowledge of geopolitical events.
According to the Impeachniks, it is Schiff's staff who decides how Schiff votes and his
policies. It would be illegal for Schiff to make decisions. But Schiff's recommendation will
make or break the careers of his staff, so elected Schiff has some influence. That's not true
for elected Trump, because those in his service already have made careers and/or a host of
outsiders looking to place them.
Although, he didn't get impeached for it Obama did get criticized for not sending the aid to
Ukraine. He was also criticized when he did intervene, but not fast enough for the deep
state. Remember "leading from behind" in response to Libya. Obama was much more popular and
circumspect than Trump, which protected him from possible impeachment when he went off the
deep state's script.
Discussion of the USC and the responsibilities assigned therein is probably a foolish and
merely moot exercise, as law is, ultimately simply custom over time, and since '45 or so the
custom has become dissociated from the documents' provisions, particularly with regard to
war-making and the "licensed" import and sale of dangerous drugs, dope. The custom in place
is essentially ukase - rule by decree. Many decree are secret.
I do not object, simply pointing to the obvious.
This is a public secret anybody can know. Inter alia see The Politics of Heroin in
Southeast Asia (McCoy)
...........
Custom includes also permitted theft, blackmail, trafficking children and so forth.
...........
zerohedge put up some documents tying TGM Hunter B to the money from Ukraine...
................
I would not worry about the name of the person called president. The real sitrep is more
like watching rape and murder from the dirty windows of a runaway train.
Upon the dissolution of the USSR, Ukraine was left with the fifth-largest nuclear arsenal in
the world. In exchange for financial assistance in the costs of removing all the nukes, the
West guaranteed to defend Ukraine's territorial integrity.
In the meantime, Russia has annexed the Crimea and rebels have taken control of parts of
Eastern Ukraine. The West has not provided any direct military assistance to restore those
territorial infringements.
Since the West has reneged on its end of the deal, would it not only be fair to return
Ukraine's nukes so it can defend itself like the Big Boys do, namely with threat of nuclear
annihilation?
I hate this trope. The Russian Fed. is not launching offensive operations to capture
Kharkov or Kiev. Western Ukraine is shelling ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. What would
U.S. Congressman say if these were Jews? (I would condemn that as well).
The next time someone pontificates, 'Ukrainians are dying because Trump held up aid' ask
them how many. The number is ZERO. Javelins are not being used on the front line.
Mr. Kolomoisky is spot on, i.e. when he says that the Americans will only use Ukrainians as
their little bitches to fight and die for America's gain against Russia. Just like the
Americans fucked over the Kurds in Syria, using them as proxy fighters to do USA/Israel's
dirty work. Wherever the USA shows up and starts interfering, everything turns into shit:
Iraq...Afghanistan...Venezuela...Bolivia...Ukraine...Libya...Yemen...Nicaragua...Ecuador...the
list is quite long. It remains to be seen if Mr. Kolomoisky can bring about rapprochement
with Russia. He'd better watch his back.
"Wow. My opinion of Kolomoisky has just improved ... somewhat." --Seamus Padraig @73
Yes, Kolomoisky has moved up a notch in my estimation as well; from the low of
"monstrously inhuman spawn of satan" all the way up to "rabid dog" . That's
quite the dramatic improvement, I must admit.
I am very glad to see you back, Grieved, and your 'wall of ice' metaphor is indeed accurate.
To me, the promising signs in Ukraine were even as here in the US when voters fought back
against what b calls Deep State, which I am sure in my heart was even more of an overwhelming
surge than registered - the best the corrupters of the system could do was make it close
enough to be a barely legitimate win for their side, and they didn't succeed. Maybe somewhere
along their line of shenanigans a small cog in the wheel got religion and didn't do their
'job'. An unsung hero who will sing when it's safe.
I hope, dearly hope, it gets safe in Ukraine very soon. They are us only further down the
line than we are, but we will get there if we can't totally remove the cancer in our midst.
That's our job; I wish Ukraine all the best in removing theirs.
Jen...I should have made clear that the two aircraft picked up by Russian PRIMARY RADAR were
unidentified...
The two commercial flights you mention were in the area and were known to both Russian and
Ukrainian controllers by means of the SECONDARY SURVEILLANCE RADAR, which picks up the
aircraft transponder signals...
However, secondary WILL NOT pick up military craft that have their transponders
off...which is normal operating procedure for military craft...
So the airspace situation was this...you can see this from one of the illustrations I
provided from the DSB prelim report...
You had MH17...you had that other flight coming from the opposite direction [flying
west]...and you had that airplane that overtook the MH17 from behind [they were in a hurry
and were going faster, so when MH17 decided to stay at FL330, they were cleared to climb to
FL350 so they could safely overtake with the necessary vertical separation...]
Those three aircraft were all picked up on the Ukrainian SECONDARY [transponder]
surveillance...as well as the Russians...on both their PRIMARY AND SECONDARY...
But what the Russians picked up were two craft ONLY ON THEIR PRIMARY...those would have
been military aircraft flying with their transponders off [they're allowed to do that and do
that most of the time in fact]...
That's why those two DIDN'T SHOW UP ON THE SECONDARY DATA HANDED OVER TO THE INVESTIGATORS
BY THE UKRAINIANS...
Only primary radar would pick those up...and, very conveniently, the Dnipro primary was
inop at the time...[so the data handed to investigators by the Ukrainians would have no trace
of any military aircraft nearby]...
But with the Russian primary radar data, there is in fact evidence that there were
military aircraft in the air at the time...just that the Dutch investigators simply decided
to exclude the very vital Russian radar data on some stupid technicality...
[Really this is a very poorly done report, both prelim and final, and I've read many over
the years...]
The other thing I should have emphasized more clearly is about that course deviation that
controllers steered MH17 to, just seconds before it was hit...
The known traffic was those three commercial aircraft, as shown on the chart...here it is
again...
Those three commercial flights are clearly labeled...and the big question is... why was
MH17 DIVERTED SOUTH...OFF ITS PLANNED ROUTE...?
We can see the deviation track by the dotted red line...
Clearly there was no 'other traffic' that required MH17 to be vectored south by the
controllers...
In fact we see that there was a FOURTH commercial flight [another B777] that was flying
south exactly to that same waypoint that MH17 was diverted to...we see this airplane is
flying west on the M70 airway and is heading to the RND waypoint...
This does not make sense...why would you divert MH17 from going to TAMAK as flight
planned...in order to go south toward RND where another airplane is heading...
If nothing else this is very bad controller practice right there...yet again, the DSB
[Dutch Safety Board] does not even raise this question...
Like I said, leaving aside any guesswork, these are the simple facts and they raise
serious questions...both about the competence of the Dutch report, and the way the
controllers handled that flight...
Ukrainian think tank Ukrainian Institute of the Future and Ukrainian media outlet Zerkalo
Nedeli (both anti-Russian, but slightly more intellectual than typical Ukrainian outlets)
have contracted a Kharkov-based pollster to conduct a poll among DNR/LNR residents from
October 7 to October 31 (method: face-to-face interviews at the homes of the respondents,
sample size: 806 respondents in DNR and 800 respondents in LNR, margin of error: 3.2%) and
published its results in an article: Тест
на сумісність
[Compatibility Test] (in Ukrainian).
It's a long and rambling article, interspersed with
Ukrainian propagandistic clichés (perhaps to placate Ukrainian nationalists), but the
numbers look solid, so I've extracted the numbers I consider important and put them in a
table format. Here they are:
GENERAL INFORMATION
Gender 46.5% male 53.5% female
Age 8.3% <25 years old 91.7% ≥25 years old
Education 31.5% no vocational training or higher education 45.2% vocational training 23.3% higher education
Religion 57% marry and baptize their children in Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) 31% believe in God, but do not go to any church 12% other churches, other religions, atheists
Political activity 3% are members of parties 97% are not members of parties
Language 90% speak Russian at home 10% speak other languages at home
Nationality 55.4% consider themselves Ukrainians 44.6% do not consider themselves Ukrainians
ECONOMY
Opinion about the labor market 24.3% there are almost no jobs 39.3% high unemployment, but it's possible to find a job 15.7% there are jobs, even if temporary 17.1% key enterprises are working, those who want to work can find a job 2.9% there are not enough employees
Personal financial situation 4.9% are saving on food 36.4% enough money to buy food, but have to save money to buy clothing 43.6% enough money to buy food and clothing, but have to save money to buy a suit, a mobile
phone, or a vacuum cleaner 12% enough money to buy food, clothing, and other goods, but have to save money to buy
expensive goods (e.g. consumer electronics) 2.7% enough money to buy food, clothing, and expensive goods, but have to save money to buy a
car or an apartment 0.4% enough money to buy anything
Personal financial situation compared to the previous year 28.4% worsened 57.3% stayed the same 14.2% improved
Personal financial situation expectations for the next year 21% will worsen 58.6% will stay the same 18.7% will improve
Opinion on the Ukraine's (sans DNR/LNR) economic situation compared to the previous
year 50.3% worsened 41.4% stayed the same 6.3% improved
CITIZENSHIP
Consider themselves citizens of 57.8% the Ukraine 34.8% DNR/LNR 6.8% Russia
Russian citizenship 42.9% never thought about obtaining it 15.5% don't want to obtain it 34.2% would like to obtain it 7.4% already obtained it
Considered leaving DNR/LNR for 5.2% the Ukraine 11.1% Russia 2.9% other country 80.8% never considered leaving
Visits to the Ukraine over the past year 35.1% across the DNR/LNR–Ukraine border (overwhelming majority of them -- 32.2% of all
respondents -- are pensioners who visit the Ukraine to receive their pensions) 2.6% across the Russia–Ukraine border 62.3% have not visited the Ukraine
WAR
Is the war in Donbass an internal Ukrainian conflict? 35.6% completely agree 40.5% tend to agree 14.1% tend to disagree 9.3% completely disagree
Was the war started by Moscow and pro-Russian groups? 3.1% completely agree 6.4% tend to agree 45.1% tend to disagree 44.9% completely disagree
Who must pay to rebuild DNR/LNR? (multiple answers) 63.6% the Ukraine 29.3% Ukrainian oligarchs 18.5% DNR/LNR themselves 17% the U.S. 16.5% the EU 16% Russia 13% all of the above
ZELENSKIY
Opinion about Zelenskiy 1.9% very positive 17.2% positive 49.6% negative 29.3% very negative
Has your opinion about Zelenskiy changed over the past months? 2.7% significantly improved 7.9% somewhat improved 44.8% stayed the same 22.9% somewhat worsened 20.5% significantly worsened
Will Zelenskiy be able to improve the Ukraine's economy? 1.4% highly likely 13.3% likely 55.3% unlikely 30% highly unlikely
Will Zelenskiy be able to bring peace to the region? 1.7% highly likely 12.5% likely 59% unlikely 26.5% highly unlikely
MEDIA
Where do you get your information on politics? (multiple answers) 84.3% TV 60.6% social networks 50.9% relatives, friends 45.9% websites 17.4% co-workers 10% radio 7.4% newspapers and magazines
What social networks do you use? (multiple answers) 70.7% YouTube 61% VK 52.3% Odnoklassniki 49.8% Viber 27.1% Facebook 21.4% Instagram 12.4% Twitter 11.1% Telegram
FUTURE
Desired status of DNR/LNR 5.1% part of the Ukraine 13.4% part of the Ukraine with a special status 16.2% independent state 13.4% part of Russia with a special status 50.9% part of Russia
Desired status of entire Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts 8.4% part of the Ukraine 10.8% part of the Ukraine with a special status 14.4% independent state 13.3% part of Russia with a special status 49.6% part of Russia
Just listening to a bit of the testimony of the ex-ambassador to Ukraine.
It is all BS hearsay!
Also, this lady doesn't seem to grasp that as an employee of the State Department, she
answers to Trump. Trump is her boss.
The questioning is full of leading questions that contains allegations and unproved
premises built into them. I can't imagine that such questioning would be allowed in a normal
court of justice in the USA.
Sure, Trump is a boor. But he is still the boss and he gets to pull out ambassadors if he
wants to.
This is total grandstanding.
Also, a lot of emotional stuff like "I was devastated. I was shocked. Color drained from
my face as I read the telephone transcript . . . "
This is BS!
IIRC the Russian radar showed that the two mystery planes in questions were flying in
MH17's blindspot . That's way too close to be half an hour away. Also, the fact that
the two planes were flying over a war zone with their transponders turned off (which is why
they couldn't be conclusively identified) strongly suggests that they were military.
@ Posted by: ralphieboy | Nov 15 2019 11:24 utc | 71
When the US launched a coup in Kiev, wasn't that a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty
too?
@ Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Nov 15 2019 12:36 utc | 72
You know the real reason why they have yet to deliver the javelins to Ukraine? It's
because they're afraid that they'll be sold on the black market and end up in the ME
somewhere targeting US tanks. That's why.
@ Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2019 13:30 utc | 75
That's quite the dramatic improvement, I must admit.
on Yovanovitch,
She added: "If our chief representative is kneecapped, it limits our effectiveness to
safeguard the vital national security interests of the United States."
She wasn't fired, she was kneecapped, and Ukraine is a US vital national security
interest, especially after it installed a new government with neo-fascism support.. .
.Kneecapping is a form of malicious wounding, often as torture, in which the victim is
injured in the knee
Cheeza decides to launch a personal attack...also completely off topic...
Typical reaction of a zelf-zentered person [sic]...With experts such as you out there,
why would anyone dare apply common sense...an intelligent person would have said...blah
blah blah...
Look man...I'm not going to take up a lot of space on this thread because it's not about
the MAX...
BUT...I need to set the record straight because you are accusing me here of somehow
muddying the waters on the MAX issue...
That is a complete inversion of the truth...I have been very explicit in my [professional]
comments about the MAX...and it is the exact opposite of what you are trying to tar me with
here...
Yes, it is important to understand these things...which is why I have made the effort to
explain the issue more clearly for the layman audience...
Your pathetic attack here shows you have no shame, nor self-respect...
Let's rewind the tape here...I said that Gazprom is looking to cut supplies to Ukraine in
the new 10 year deal that comes up for negotiation in January...and that they are going to be
pumping much less gas through Ukraine because NS2 now allows to bypass Ukraine...
You took a run at this comment, calling it wrong, and putting up a bunch of your own
hypothesizing...
I responded by linking to the
Russian news report quoting officials saying exactly that...that gas to Ukraine will be
greatly reduced...
Instead of responding to that by admitting you were full of shit...you decide to attack me
on the MAX issue...everybody here knows my [professional] position on the MAX...and that I
have said repeatedly THAT IT CANNOT BE FIXED...[which is also why I have offered detailed
technical explanations...]
I'm not going to let you screw with my integrity here...everything you attributed to me
on the MAX is completely FALSE and in fact turning the truth on its head...
As Kiza #55 noted - Nordstream 1 and 2, combined, only equal half of Ukraine's transit
capacity.
The primary impact is that Ukraine can't hold far Western European customer gas hostage
anymore with its gas transit "negotiations" as Nordstream allows Russia to sell directly to
Germany.
There can still be Russian gas sold via Ukraine, but this will be mostly to near-Ukraine
neighbors: Romania, Slovakia, Austria, Czech as well as Ukraine itself.
Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania can transit from Turk Stream, but there are potential Turk (and
Bulgarian) issues.
Poland is already committing to LNG in order to not be dependent on Russian gas transiting
Ukraine - a double whammy.
The ultimate effect is to remove Ukraine's stranglehold position over Russian gas exports,
which in turn severely undercuts Ukraine's ability to both get really cheap Russian gas and
additional transit fees - a major blow to their economy.
Therefore, the continuation of gas transit via Ukraine in volumes greater than the 26 bcm/y
suggested above will depend on the European Commission and European gas importers, and
their insistence that gas transit via Ukraine continues.
Otherwise, gas transit via Ukraine will be reduced to delivering limited volumes for
European storage re-fills in the 'off-peak' summer months...
This prospect will undoubtedly complicate any negotiations between Gazprom and its
Ukrainian counterparty over a new contract to govern the transit of Russian gas via
Ukraine, once the existing contract expires at the end of December 2019.
...Gazprom may be willing to commit to only limited annual transit volumes...
European gas importers don't give a shit about Ukraine...and they have the final
word...they care only about getting the gas they need from Russia in a reliable way and at a
good price...
The news report I linked to makes it perfectly clear that the Europeans are demanding that
the Ukranians get their act together on the gas issue, or they will be dropped
altogether...
You know...FOOL...it really makes me wonder how fools like you decide to make statements
here with a very authoritative tone...when it is quite clear you are talking out your rear
end...
Nobody needs that kind of bullshit here...if you don't know a subject sufficiently well,
then maybe you should keep quiet...or when making a statement, phrase it as your own OPINION
and nothing more...
"... The Russian primary radar did pick up two other aircraft very nearby MH17...but the Dutch have made some kind of excuse about that data not being in 'raw' form and thus not usable... ..."
Curious to know how Kolomoisky is working "feverishly" to end the war in the Donbass region. Wonder if he is planning to come
clean on what he knows of the Malaysia Airlines MH17 shootdown and crash in an area not far from Slavyansk and near where his
Privat Group's subsidiary company Burisma Holdings holds a licence to drill for oil and natural gas. What does he know about Kiev
and Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control personnel's direction to MH17 to fly at 10,000 metres in the warzone and not an extra 1,000
metres above as the flight crew had requested? He had been governor of Dnepropetrovsk region at the time.
fb @ 25 said;"The Ukraine is actually a preview of what we can expect to see in our own future...as the unleashed oligarchy similarly
runs everything into the ground in order to extract maximal wealth for a parasite elite...already we are nothing but a Ponzi Scheme
on the verge of toppling..."
Yup, aided and abetted by our current regime, while pretending not to...
@23
"It's a tough balancing act, being a Ukrainian oligarch. For two decades they stole what they could from the Ukraine (and from
perverting the various sweetheart deals Russia was providing). Once the industry and energy money was stripped, and Russia started
closing the spigots, they managed to get the West to pump in ungodly amounts of cash so long as they would agree to talk mean
about Russia, and didn't mind the US machine taking its cut of the loot."
This is it in a nutshell. The Russians were fed up with Ukraine stealing gas. Hence, Nord Stream 2. That was always the plan.
Whether the Yanks truly grasped the rationale here ---Russia is cutting off gas to Ukraine, simple---has never been clear to me.
Although it is a fairly simple plot. The Russians had decades of shenanigans with the Ukes and said Basta. By not overreacting
to the Ukrainian-USA freakout and keeping their eyes on the prize (Nord Stream and disengaging, gas-wise, from Uk), they have
managed to reach their goal of getting Nord Stream 2 online.
Kolomoiski is the bankroller and commander of the Azov Battalion. Has close arrangements with other paramilitaries. And is the
current principal of Burisma. And is Privatbank, the only bank left in Ukraine. He gets a cut of all the action.
When Trump queries Zelensky, all that Zelensky is thinking is this guy does not know the score. This guy does not know who's
on first. He wants me to investigate the boss? Let him talk to the boss. And who does Z talk to in D.C.? Pointless getting into
detail with Trump.
Trump has no team. No one in D.C. is on his side. He's unable to finish anything.
1) Say the fantasy happens and the US/Russia become BFFs like US/UK...
- Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss?
- Tough to answer, many unknowns- Russia may act different once its on top, actors may derail schemes, Deep State temper tantrum,
etc...
In general, governments are the order-providing solution for chaos and problems that only first existed inside the minds of
those seeking power over others.
Kolomoiski is a U.S. asset. His interview with the NYTimes proves it.
His threats are meant to mobilize NATO and Russia haters in general; because Trump and most of his cadre care nothing for Ukraine.
Does anyone think Russia will give Kolomoiski 100 million dollars? Why was he given an opportunity to threaten the USA? For
no reason? Something else is afoot but Russia still won't take the bait because they are winning.
Russia is quite happy with the status quo. The war in Ukraine keeps the war against Russia on a level which is easy to manipulate
and therefore geostrategically beneficial. Kolomoiski will get nothing.
What does [Kolomoysky] know about Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control personnel's direction to MH17 to fly at 10,000
metres in the warzone and not an extra 1,000 metres above as the flight crew had requested?
Okay..so an interesting can of worms here...
First is the fact that Kolomoysky was the governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast at the time...
Now as to the flight and Dnipro Radar [the regional air traffic control facility that controls a very big chunk of airspace
over eastern Ukraine]...
First the issue of the airplane cruising altitude...the crew had filed their flight plan to climb from flight level 330 [33,000
ft] to FL350 after passing a certain waypoint in eastern Ukraine...
Now the controllers did instruct the crew to go ahead and climb to their planned altitude, but the crew declined the
clearance and opted to stay at FL330...this was done very likely because the atmospheric conditions at that height were better
for fuel economy...
[To be even more specific...the Boeing manual gave an optimum flight altitude of 33,800 ft, but flying eastward you only have
odd numbered flight levels to choose from, so the crew figured they would be better off staying at 33 than climbing to 35...]
BUT...there are a couple of very curious things here...
First is the fact that Dnipro controllers deviated the airplane from its flight plan just before it went down...ostensibly
due to other traffic...
We can see this in the following map, which is what's called a high altitude en route chart, which is used by pilots to plan
and execute their flight...
You will note a couple of things here...the airplane is flying on the L980 airway [basically a highway in the sky] when it
is turned south by controllers to the RND waypoint, which is in Russian territory...
This is NOT the route filed by the crew...which can be seen
here...
They were supposed to continue flying on L980 right to the TAMAK waypoint, which is visible on the previous chart and is right
on the border with Russia...
They would have continued on the A87 airway to their next waypoint in Russia which is TIKNA...
Now here is the thing...right after they were turned south, they got shot down...
According to the radio transcripts, the crew acknowledged the course change, but did not object...however, usually these kinds
of course changes aren't appreciated on the flight deck because the crew is trying to minimize wasted time and wasted fuel on
course deviations...
Most times you will just not bother to complain to controllers...but for sure there will always be chatter between the captain
and copilot about being yanked around like that...
No mention is made in the Dutch Safety Board report about such chatter from the cockpit voice recorder, which I find very
odd...
Also odd is the fact that Dnipro ATC primary radar was down, and only the so-called 'secondary' was working which uses the
transponder signals from the airplane...
This is very busy airspace because a lot of flights from western Europe to South Asia traverse this territory...the plan is
always to fly what's called a 'great circle route' which is basically a straight line, if you flattened out the globe...
Plus considering that you have a war going on underneath...it's very unusual to have your PRIMARY radar inoperable...
This is significant also because military aircraft will not be using transponders and so will not be visible to the secondary
surveillance...
The Russian primary radar did pick up two other aircraft very nearby MH17...but the Dutch have made some kind of excuse about
that data not being in 'raw' form and thus not usable...
So we see some very suspicious anomalies here...
The Ukrainian authorities did have a NOTAM [notice to airmen] in effect up to FL320 [32,000 ft] so commercial traffic could
not fly under that height...but clearly they should have closed the airspace over the hot conflict area...
They didn't do that...and Kolomoysky was in charge...
The Russian primary radar did pick up two other aircraft very nearby MH17...but the Dutch have made some kind of excuse about
that data not being in 'raw' form and thus not usable...
One of these aircraft was possibly an Air India flight travelling from Delhi to Birmingham. The flight crew was asked by Dnipro
ATC to make radio contact with MH17 after the latter plane could not be located by Dnipro ATC personnel. The Air India pilots
did try but did not get an answer.
The other craft could have been a Singapore Airlines flight from Denmark to Singapore. Singapore Airlines ran two flights on
17 July 2014 that went within half an hour of MH17 over much the same area travelling from Europe to Singapore.
This is the full video of the July 21 Russian military presentation. It also shows positions of Ukrainian BUK system radar
coverage that operating at the time of the shootdown and also sat photos of Ukraine BUK launcher positions in the hours before
the shootdown.
I will add here also [since we are on the MH17 issue] that the Russians produced a
verified paper trail of that BUK missile serial number that the Dutch came up with...
showing that it was DELIVERED TO THE UKRANIANS back in the 1980s...
Also that the Russians haven't even used that model of missile for more than 20 years,
having replaced them with substantially different, modernized versions...
Also, the Russians performed an extremely rigorous test of a BUK explosion, using a mocked
up airplane fuselage... and found results completely inconsistent with what the Dutch have
presented...
The whole thing is a disaster for the Nato deep state...nobody is fooled by their bullshit
on MH17...
I don't have links right now to those items mentioned above, but it should not be too
difficult to find...
I did find the exact location of the launchers on google maps some time ago but would take
a few hours research to locate it again. The positions of those launchers as in the Russian
military presentation also corresponds with the general area Almaz Antey believes a buk
missile would have to be launched from to create the damage pattern.
Peter, I agree about diverting the plane to get it into range of the Ukrainian BUK...there
certainly was no possible reason because of nonexistent 'traffic'...which is the official
Dutch story here...
Thanks again for the map info...very interesting to say the least...
I have been simply here raising very obvious questions about the known facts of that
flight, as presented by the completely incompetent Dutch...I will leave it to others to
connect the dots...[as you are doing].
I also do vaguely recall something about one of the Ukranian controllers coming forward
with some info that contradicts the official story...but I could be wrong and don't have any
links or anything like that...
Re the flight controller. There appears to have been something happen there but nothing
solid on the various flight controller rumors. Ukraine security did, I think, take all
records in the hours after the shootdown.
"... So the Ukrainians traded their corrupt Ukrainian elected President, mostly accumulating stuff in Ukraine, for corrupt neocon/ neolib Democrat bureaucrats and Ukrainian/ Americans, who now cannot be denied their pound of flesh (which will quickly exit Ukraine, taking much of that country's value with it). ..."
"... Even the anti-corruption agencies are corrupt! So American policy now is set by such bureaucrats, who not only play military adventurism games (to justify all that money in loans, grants, and weapons), but even pass the corruption level of the Native Ukrainians in skimming that incoming money and getting rich, and of course steal whatever isn't nailed down (American policy as previewed in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"). ..."
"to a one they are turf-conscious careerists who think they set U.S. foreign policy and
resent the president for intruding upon them. It is increasingly evident that Trump's true
offense is proposing to renovate a foreign policy framework that has been more or less
untouched for 75 years (and is in dire need of renovation)."
This may be even worse than Lawrence depicts. It is clear that Vindman in his opening
remarks made it clear that the consensus policy of experts (like John Bolton) had been
following an agenda from the Obama administration (or before, but implemented under Obama,
Biden and Nuland) and it is verboten to change anything, despite constitutionally these
people at best only having advisory roles to the President (and constitutionally the
President can ask for their opinions in writing; CYA even back then!) The Ukrainian Americans
involved in the coup (national security from Vindman's perspective) are deeply committed
since 2014, and they expect to reap the benefits with no interference from Trump. And the
Democrats/ Ukraine-Americans "running the show" are probably much more corrupt than
Ukrainians governing their country before 2014.
I have started Oliver Bullough's "Money Land" and was aghast at the luxury items
Yanukovich had stolen through corruption and accumulated at his many properties. Surely with
so much money going to corrupt Yanukovich and his henchmen, the coup would have been a
blessing for the Ukrainian people! Right? I was shocked to find that after the overthrow of
Yanukovich in 2014, the median per capita household income in Ukraine, which had risen
steadily from $2032 in 2010 to $2601 in 2013, had dropped over 50% to $1110 to $1135 in 2015
and 2016, and has only risen to $1694 in 2018 (ceicdata.com).
So the Ukrainians traded their
corrupt Ukrainian elected President, mostly accumulating stuff in Ukraine, for corrupt
neocon/ neolib Democrat bureaucrats and Ukrainian/ Americans, who now cannot be denied their
pound of flesh (which will quickly exit Ukraine, taking much of that country's value with
it).
Even the anti-corruption agencies are corrupt! So American policy now is set by such
bureaucrats, who not only play military adventurism games (to justify all that money in
loans, grants, and weapons), but even pass the corruption level of the Native Ukrainians in
skimming that incoming money and getting rich, and of course steal whatever isn't nailed down
(American policy as previewed in "Confessions of an Economic Hitman").
Well, I noticed the point you raised. I was a software engineer, not a real engineer, so I
have steadfastly stayed out of arguments about 9/11 and what really happened.
I have always found the whole 9/11 thing implausible, and still do, but I've been used to
that sort of thing since the 60s. Three new impossible things every day. I considered the
uses of passenger jets as weapons on more than one occasion while riding around in one,
seeing the buildings go by as you glide to the runway, so I wasn't surprised.
And then I realized, like the next day, that our leaders, whomever they might be, intended
to make it a military affair, and since then I've been waiting for our collapse.
I don't believe I've seen any attempts to emulate 9/11 though. Certainly some other
aircraft terrorism, like in Ukraine.
It was kind of obvious that the Bushites were all ready at the gate when 9/11 happened,
Patriot Act Mighty Wurlitzer and all, so I don't doubt their complicity, but other than that
I don't want to fight.
stephen t johnson #77: "Whatever military assistance Russia gives the rebels is
about making sure they don't go too the left in fighting the fascists and making sure there are
no embarrassing wave of Russian-speaking refugees from Ukrainian fascism."
Putin is really afraid of leftism among Russian Ukrainians, and the "embarrassment" of an
exodus into Russia? Your whole paragraph stirs propagandistic bits of excuse-mongering into an
illogical mash. Look, Ukraine is a long complicated discussion but a simple overview is that
most of the country wants to ally with the EU and the eastern portion wants to ally with
Russia. Yes, there is a lot of corruption. Yes, Euromaidan (pro-EU) was probably 1/3 far right.
Yes, there are fascist parties. But the majority of the people want democracy and not fascism.
Instead these poor people got Zelensky being extorted by yet another thug.
(Vindman is correct, this is another disaster by Trump with longterm consequences for US
foreign policy. While the US Republicans have also gone thug, saying it's no big deal.)
If the Steinmeier formula holds and there are free elections in Donbass and the majority
votes for kicking out Putin, do you think Putin going to withdraw his Russian Army regulars?
Accompanying the annexation of Crimea was Putin's long letter to the international community
justifying his action because there were "nationalists, neo-Nazis, Russophobes, and
anti-Semites" who are committing "pogroms and terror". This now appears to be mostly fiction
(perhaps enhanced by Putin's agent provocateurs).
stephen
t johnson #77: "Whatever military assistance Russia gives the rebels is about making sure they
don't go too the left in fighting the fascists and making sure there are no embarrassing wave
of Russian-speaking refugees from Ukrainian fascism."
Putin is really afraid of leftism among Russian Ukrainians, and the "embarrassment" of an
exodus into Russia? Your whole paragraph stirs propagandistic bits of excuse-mongering into an
illogical mash. Look, Ukraine is a long complicated discussion but a simple overview is that
most of the country wants to ally with the EU and the eastern portion wants to ally with
Russia.
Yes, there is a lot of corruption. Yes, Euromaidan (pro-EU) was probably 1/3 far right.
Yes, there are fascist parties. But the majority of the people want democracy and not fascism.
Instead these poor people got Zelensky being extorted by yet another thug. (Vindman is correct,
this is another disaster by Trump with long term consequences for US foreign policy.
While the
US Republicans have also gone thug, saying it's no big deal.) If the Steinmeier formula holds
and there are free elections in Donbass and the majority votes for kicking out Putin, do you
think Putin going to withdraw his Russian Army regulars? Accompanying the annexation of Crimea
was Putin's long letter to the international community justifying his action because there were
"nationalists, neo-Nazis, Russophobes, and anti-Semites" who are committing "pogroms and
terror".
Lee Arnold@80 "Putin is really afraid of leftism among Russian Ukrainians, and the
"embarrassment" of an exodus into Russia? "
Yes, Putin does not want wholesale expropriation of oligarchs, as he does not stand for
that in Russia (selective prosecution sufficient to appear to be a defender of the people and
serve as a stick -- accompanied by carrots -- to negotiate oligarch support. Also, Putin
doesn't even want to pay pensions, he certainly doesn't want the embarrassment of refugees
neglected, or worse, costing.
This point rests on the premise Putin isn't a right-winger, which is absurd.
"If the Steinmeier formula holds and there are free elections in Donbass and the majority
votes for kicking out Putin, do you think Putin going to withdraw his Russian Army regulars?"
https://www.rferl.org/a/what-is-the-steinmeier-formula-and-did-zelenskiy-just-capitulate-to-moscow-/30195593.html
This source may not be right-wing enough for your tastes, of course. But for the rest of us,
it suggests that an if centered on the Steinmeier formula is disingenuous in itself.
It's not even clear that Zelensky hasn't rejected the Steinmeier formula! The problem with
re-unifying the country is the fascist regime is quite hostile to what it sees as unUkrainian
elements, namely Russian speakers. National purity are favorite fascist principles but none
of the rest of us are required to accept them. Your belief that an election supervised by the
fascist regime is free and fair is wrong, no matter what you imply. And frankly, the notion
the OSCE is surely neutral is dubious too.
There was never any reliable evidence of any significant numbers of regulars moving into
Donetsk and Lugansk, because no, media reports are not reliable when addressing official
enemies. It is almost certain there are advisors and mercenaries, copying the US model, but
they are not what is generally meant by an invasion. They have not stakes out a separate
territory as the US territory did in Syria. There are military reasons for setting up a
perimeter, for mission security if nothing else. In short, there is in fact quite simple
reasons for thinking, yes, Putin would stop spending money on Donetsk and Lugansk, and save
on weapons and withdraw his advisers.
Further, the casualties in the Russian Army's officer corps by the way would end up being
known to the Russian Army, and eventually everyone else concerned. But they're not. Equally,
the large numbers of regulars alleged would have been in the recent prisoner exchange, but
they weren't. Some of those as I recall had been arrested merely for subversion, not taken
prisoner of war. Casualties of course are not the only costs to Putin, there also being the
money and weapons. The thing is of course, these are all excellent reasons for Putin to
withdraw. You are tacitly presuming the conclusion, that Putin is a crazed warmonger unable
even to calculate self-interest. Substituting scorn for analysis is not becoming.
"Yes, there are fascist parties." This is entirely misleading. There are fascist armed
formations incorporated into the Ukrainian army, financed privately.
I can't actually read the article as it's paywalled but it's conservative enough to carry
weight here.
There's the bit about Haaretz, which is like the anti-socialists ginning up anti-semitism
smears against Corbyn. I say the stylized swastika on the stage with the PM of Ukraine shows
us more than an old letter. I have no idea how you can say the people murdered when a
building was set on fire and democratic mob drove people back in, don't somehow count as
"pogroms and terror."
But you missed a trick in pointing out "Jewish" opposition to "Putin." (The people in
Donestsk and Lugansk are no one? Except maybe pre-corpses?) Ihor Kolomoyskiy, the primary
funder/founder of the Azov battalion, definitely wants no part of "Putin."
Most of this discussion is rarely about the left, but here arises a major marker
distinguishing the left, which is anti-fascism. You're pro-fascist.
nastywoman@79 was so stung the comment was actually intelligible. Unfortunately, asserting
something which isn't nonsense -- unlike nastywoman's usual incoherence -- without a shred of
argument is naked hostility, not an argument. The gored ox bellows loud!
Foreign Aid Makes Corrupt Countries More Corrupt
by
Tyler Durden
Sun, 11/03/2019 - 07:00
0
SHARES
Authored by James Bovard at
jimbovard.com
,
Any time a government hands out money, not just foreign aid, it breeds corruption...
And there are few better examples than Ukraine - just don't tell the House impeachment
hearings.
Barricade with the protesters at Hrushevskogo street on January 26, 2014 in Kiev,
Ukraine.Sasha Maksymenko / cc
Counting on foreign aid to reduce corruption is like expecting whiskey to cure
alcoholism.
After closed House of Representatives impeachment hearings heard testimony on
President Trump's role in delaying U.S. aid to Ukraine, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer
declared:
"
Numbers
don't lie
. It's even more clear now that President Trump is not the anti-corruption crusader
he claims to be."
Most of the press coverage has tacitly assumed that American assistance is vital to
fighting corruption in Ukraine.
But that ignores foreign aid's toxic record and Ukraine's
post-Soviet history.
A
2002 American
Economic Review analysis
concluded that
"increases in [foreign] aid are associated
with contemporaneous increases in corruption,"
and that "corruption is positively
correlated with aid received from the United States."
That was the year President George W. Bush launched a new foreign aid program, the
Millennium Challenge Account (MCA).
Bush declared, "I
think
it makes no sense to give aid
, money, to countries that are corrupt." But the Bush
administration continued delivering billions of dollars in handouts to many of the world's most
corrupt regimes. By 2004, the State Department had codified what amounted to backtracking: "
The
MCA is an incentive-based supplement to other U.S. aid programs."
The Bush team found excuses
to give MCA aid to some of the world's most corrupt governments as well, including Georgia.
In 2010, President Barack Obama proclaimed at the United Nations that America was "
leading
a global effort to combat corruption
."
Obama's "aides said the United States in the
past has often seemed
to
just throw money at problems
," the
Los Angeles Times
reported. But the reform charade
was exposed the following year when the Obama administration fiercely resisted congressional
efforts to curb wasteful aid. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that restricting handouts
to nations that fail anti-corruption tests "has
the
potential to affect a staggering number
of needy aid recipients."
The Obama administration continued pouring tens of billions of American tax dollars into
sinkholes such as Afghanistan, which even its president, Ashraf Ghani, admitted in 2016 was "one of
the
most
corrupt countries on earth
."
And the deluge of aid the Afghan government received only
worsened the corruption. As John Sopko, the heroic Special Inspector General for Afghan
Reconstruction (SIGAR), observed, "
We
need to understand how
US policies and practices unintentionally aided and abetted corruption.
We must recognize the danger of dealing with characters or networks of unsavory repute, tolerating
contracting abuses, accepting shoddy performance and delivering unsustainable projects."
The closed House impeachment hearings last week heard from acting U.S. ambassador to the Ukraine
William B. Taylor Jr., who testified that he "
had
authority over the bulk
of the U.S. effort to support Ukraine against the Russian invasion and
to help it defeat corruption."
The
Washington Post
lauded Taylor as someone who "
spent
much of the 1990s telling
Ukrainian politicians that nothing was more critical to their
long-term prosperity than rooting out corruption and bolstering the rule of law
, in his
role as the head of U.S. development assistance for post-Soviet countries."
Transparency International, which publishes an annual Corruption Perceptions Index, shows that
corruption
surged in Ukraine during the late 1990s
and remains at obscene levels
(though recent
years have shown slight improvements). Taylor was ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009, when
corruption sharply worsened despite
hundreds
of millions of dollars in U.S. aid
. Ukraine is now ranked as the
120th
least
corrupt
nation in the world
-- lower than Egypt and Pakistan, two other major U.S. aid recipients. What
Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder is to the NFL, Taylor appears to be to the anti-corruption
cause.
Bribing foreign politicians to encourage honest government makes as much sense as
distributing free condoms to encourage abstinence.
Rather than encouraging good governance
practices, foreign aid is more likely to produce kleptocracies, or governments of thieves. As a
Brookings Institution analysis observed, "The history of
U.S.
assistance is littered
with tales of corrupt foreign officials using aid to line their own
pockets, support military buildups, and pursue vanity projects."
And both American
politicians and bureaucrats are want to continue the aid gravy train, regardless of how foreign
regimes waste the money or use it to repress their own citizens.
If U.S. aid was effective, Ukraine would have become a rule of law paradise long ago. The
country's new president, Volodymyr Zelensky, may be sincere in his efforts to root out corruption.
But it is an insult to both him and his nation to pretend that Ukraine cannot clean up its act
without help from Donald Trump.
The surest way to reduce foreign corruption is to end
foreign aid.
Good point about the underestimated Ukrainian death toll in the war against the DPR and
LPR. The number of photos showing Ukrainian destroyed armor suggests larger losses
Add to this was the 7k Ukr troops were surrounded and nearly wiped out near Debaltsevo
following the Illovaisk defeat and the several brigades being trapped and mostly destroyed in
the SE of the DPR and LPR along the Russian border. The MH17 shoot-down seemed timed to
allowed many of these most experienced troops to escape the cauldron.
Meanwhile, damage from Ukrainian shelling and bombing infrastructure of south-eastern
Ukrainian breakaway cities of Donetsk and Luhansk is estimated at $440 million.
The only mistake Merry makes is his erroneous statement that Trump held up aid to Ukraine to
pressure the Ukrainian president to investigate the Ukrainian firm that made $1,750,000
payments to the corrupt Biden and his corrupt son. The transcript of the telephone call between
Trump and the Ukrainian president shows no Quid Pro Quo, and the Ukrainian president says there
was none. The Quid Pro Quo was entirely on Biden's part when he told the president of Ukraine
to fire the prosecutor investigating the firm that was paying him and his son seven figures in
protection money or forfeit $1 billion in US aid. You can watch it here:
https://www.wsj.com/video/opinion-joe-biden-forced-ukraine-to-fire-prosecutor-for-aid-money/C1C51BB8-3988-4070-869F-CAD3CA0E81D8.html
Moreover, even it Trump did threaten to withhold aid from a country that was covering up
corruption by a US vice president and his son, that is the US president's right. There is no
reason whatsoever that a president should permit US taxpayers' money to be given to a
government that covers up corruption by a vice president of the United States.
Biden's son has admitted that he used poor judgment taking money from a firm in order to
protect it from prosecution.
Even if Trump did what the Democrats allege, which he did not, there is nothing illegal or
unethical about it whatsoever. Compared to the tactics US prosecutors use to convict the
innocent, Trump's conversation with the president of Ukraine is far above the highest ethics
known to US prosecutors.
Why aren't the Democrats complaining about the criminally illegal treatment of Julian
Assange and Manning? The reason is that the Democrats, the most utterly corrupt political
organization on the face of the Earth, are bought and paid for by the Deep State. The Democrats
are dog excrement to the core. They are traitors to America and to our Constitutional order.
The entire party should be arrested and put on trial for sedition to overthrow the government
of the United States.
In addition to the fired Shokin's claim that President Poroshenko warned him not to
investigate Burisma because it was not in the Bidens' interest, the notes say, the prosecutor
also said he "was warned to stop" by the then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt .
The State Department declined to explain this assertion about Pyatt, who was ambassador to
Ukraine from 2013 to 2016 and now is Ambassador to Greece. The Biden presidential campaign did
not respond to a request for comment.
Recounting Shokin's version of events, the notes say he "was called into Mr. Poroshenko's
office and told that the investigation into Burisma and the Managing Director where Hunter
Biden is on the board, has caused Joe Biden to hold up one billion dollars in U.S. aid to
Ukraine." Poroshenko later told Shokin that "he had to be fired as the aid to the Ukraine was
being withheld by Joe Biden," the Giuliani interview notes say.
Trump has claimed that Vice
President Biden pressured the Ukrainian government to fire Shokin because he was investigating
his son's employer.
"I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really
unfair," the president said, referring to Shokin in his July 25 phone call with Ukraine's
president, Volodymyr Zelensky. That call triggered the current impeachment crisis after a CIA
whistleblower alleged that Trump had pressured the Ukrainian leader to investigate Biden in
return for military aid.
A Politico
investigation in 2017 found that officials in Poroshenko's government helped Hillary
Clinton allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, notably Paul Manafort,
who before joining the Trump campaign was a political consultant for ousted Ukrainian President
Viktor Yanukovych.
Poroshenko's administration insisted at the time that Ukraine stayed neutral in the
race.
"Most of the press coverage has tacitly assumed that American assistance is vital to
fighting corruption in Ukraine."
Then I must have missed most of the press coverage. First of all, most of the reporting
I've seen has been about Trump's attempts to convince Ukraine to dig up dirt on Trump's
political opponents. The purpose of the aid package is a minor part of the story, but when it
has been discussed the reporting I've seen has indicated that the purpose of the aid package
that Trump held up was to help the Ukrainian military, not to fight corruption. So I can't
help wondering: where does James Bovard gets his news?
Then you've missed the point of this article. It's neither about the purpose of that aid.
It's about the aid as such leading to corruption. Do you really think Ukrainians will have
any troubles with selling those weapons out to some Middle Eastern or African caudillos? Or
maybe you think that a single penny from the sums obtained as a result of that sellout will
end up in the hands of their average citizens, and not in those of local mobsters and
oligarchs?
I believe I am reading this right: That providing foreign aid is always going to lead to
corruption. That what Trump did with Ukraine is basically drinking the same sauce others have
in the past and anyone else will do in the future. That then suggests that the solution is to
close the tap and end using foreign aid because, whatever the initial motive, it's too
corrupting an influence.
In that... honestly that's the best argument I've heard against foreign aid. Typically I
hear arguments from economic standpoints, which seemed silly when many of the targetted
examples are in the millions-pennies by US standards.
But putting it from a control standpoint: that leadership, present or future, will either
use foreign aid as a cover for corrupt means or take an active use of foreign aid as a wedge
against a foreign country.
I can hear a counterargument that "we are a superpower. We should be helping others." And
the response I hear in my head is "given our inability to truly help others without such
corruption and how we abuse the status, maybe we really do need to let that title go." It
means giving it up to Russia or China, but we aren't doing a good job holding them back, even
if we should be doing so.
Ignoring the world really isn't an option. But our priority should probably be to focus on
home as we can and better ourselves rather than ruining yourselves while ruining everyone who
brushes with us.
So yeah. I can see the idea behind pulling back from these foreign aid elements.
The "just don't tell the House impeachment hearings." did seem rather clickbaity. It
suggests this is an argument against the impeachment hearings as if their mistaken believe in
supporting foreign aid is a mark against the hearings themselves. The article itself doesn't
seem to go that route. "just don't tell congress" would've done far better. But that's a
nitpick combined with all of this impeachment discussion leaving me rather kneejerky.
Not only Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, it's also the poorest on the
continent. It became such after all American aid and after all, much, much bigger IMF loans.
Which makes one kind of suggest that the known level of corruption there is only a tip of the
iceberg.
But, getting back home, I just love those "closed impeachment hearings". Paraphrasing the
famous quotation, why so closed? Afraid that, being it open, any half-literate first-year law
college student (not to mention Rudy and the DoJ) would tear the so-called "evidence"
asunder?
It became such after all American aid and after all, much, much bigger IMF loans
I feel like you're glossing over some other major events that have happened in the South
and East of the country which have contributed to the sluggish economic development and
hampered the corruption fight...
The open hearings will come, Alex. They're closed because those are the rules Republicans
abided by with the Benghazi hearings. However it's going to take a lot more than Rudy and the
DoJ to combat testimony from Trump-appointed ambassadors who've been plucked from retirement
to help with Ukraine and say that there was a quid pro quo.
So what's the point here, foreign aid to corrupt governments is standard American policy,
so Presidential corruption in distributing that aid is no big deal.
"The surest way to reduce foreign corruption is to end foreign aid."
This is a point that can and has been argued. I remember having just that debate in
relation to aid to Africia in the '80s.
However, the House is investigating Presidential coruption in the distribution of that aid
and that would seem to be a different matter.
If you think Trump cares about corruption in Ukraine, I have a Trump U course to sell
you.
Trump tried to extort a foreign leader to help him win an election, this is beyond dispute
to anyone who isn't ignoring the facts. He wanted the president of Ukraine to make a public
announcement that he was investigating Hunter Biden. Whether the investigation would turn up
anything was irrelevant, Trump knew an appearance of Biden corruption could work wonders for
him.
Oh yes... The purported presence of the "evidence" of the said "extortion" is precisely
why the House hearings are closed. And, of course, Trump's most vital necessity was kicking
the weakest of his opponents out of the race, so that Democrats could pick someone with
better chances, instead of the continuation of the DNC's idiotic course aimed at nominating
that one at all costs, which persists even now.
Just like the corrupt aid we have been giving to dictatorships since WW II ended. The
difference is the president in previous decades did not use the aid as a bribe to foreign
leaders to conduct nefarious investigations on US citizens. I can only imagine the columns
TAC would write if Obama called the Saudi Crown Prince in 2010 and told him that military aid
is contingent on information about their business dealings with the Bush family because Jeb
might run in 2012.
Then where's the evidence of that "bribe" having even happened? As of yet we have only a
clownery called "closed hearings" and the idea that Trump would be interested in getting rid
of the weakest of his possible opponents which defies the mere principles of logic.
Hogwash. Tell us how "Russian interference" has forced the Ukrainian junta to be as
corrupt, brutal and incompetent as it has been since it became a full-fledged US puppet?
A better use of our hard-earned tax dollars would be for the US government to put its own
house in order before addressing problems of "corruption" abroad.
Corruption is incidental to the political control that foreign aid provides to the US. In
other words, it's a feature and not a bug. The exception to this rule is Israel, where US
foreign aid is turned around to exert influence on American politicians. Again, a feature and
not a bug.
Don't hold your breath waiting for this situation to change.
Charitable (non-government) aid typically nurtures corruption, too
Arm's-length dealing is the cure and the preventive, and it's the only one.
I know - sounds cruel, doesn't it?
I usually do - just ask my children
U.S. Aid Makes Corrupt Countries More Corrupt
Our 'democracy building' assistance to certain countries--including Ukraine--has produced kleptocracies, or
worse.
By
James Bovard
•
October 30, 2019
Barricade with the protesters at Hrushevskogo street on January 26, 2014 in Kiev, Ukraine.
Sasha
Maksymenko
/
cc
Counting on foreign aid to reduce corruption is like expecting whiskey to cure
alcoholism. After closed House of Representatives impeachment hearings heard testimony on President Trump's role in
delaying U.S. aid to Ukraine, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer declared: "
Numbers
don't lie
. It's even more clear now that President Trump is not the
anti-corruption crusader he claims to be."
Most of the press coverage has tacitly assumed that American assistance is vital to fighting corruption in Ukraine. But
that ignores foreign aid's toxic record and Ukraine's post-Soviet history.
A
2002 American Economic Review analysis
concluded that "increases in [foreign] aid are associated with contemporaneous increases in corruption," and that
"corruption is positively correlated with aid received from the United States."
That was the year President George W. Bush launched a new foreign aid program, the
Millennium Challenge Account (MCA). Bush declared, "I
think it makes no sense to give aid
, money, to
countries that are corrupt." But the Bush administration continued delivering billions of dollars in handouts to many of
the world's most corrupt regimes. By 2004, the State Department had codified what amounted to backtracking: "
The
MCA is an incentive-based supplement to other U.S. aid programs."
The Bush
team found excuses to give MCA aid to some of the world's most corrupt governments as well, including Georgia.
In 2010, President Barack Obama proclaimed at the United Nations that America was "
leading
a global effort to combat corruption
." Obama's "aides said the United States
in the past has often seemed
to just throw money at problems
," the
Los Angeles Times
reported. But the reform
charade was exposed the following year when the Obama administration fiercely resisted congressional efforts to curb
wasteful aid. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that restricting handouts to nations that fail anti-corruption
tests "has
the potential to affect a staggering number
of
needy aid recipients."
The Obama administration continued pouring tens of billions of American tax dollars
into sinkholes such as Afghanistan, which even its president, Ashraf Ghani, admitted in 2016 was "one of the
most corrupt countries on earth
." And the
deluge of aid the Afghan government received only worsened the corruption. As John Sopko, the heroic Special Inspector
General for Afghan Reconstruction (SIGAR), observed, "
We
need to understand how
US policies and practices unintentionally aided and
abetted corruption. We must recognize the danger of dealing with characters or networks of unsavory repute, tolerating
contracting abuses, accepting shoddy performance and delivering unsustainable projects."
The closed House impeachment hearings last week heard from acting U.S. ambassador to
the Ukraine William B. Taylor Jr., who testified that he "
had
authority over the bulk
of the U.S. effort to support Ukraine against the
Russian invasion and to help it defeat corruption." The
Washington Post
lauded Taylor as someone who "
spent
much of the 1990s telling
Ukrainian politicians that nothing was more critical
to their long-term prosperity than rooting out corruption and bolstering the rule of law, in his role as the head of
U.S. development assistance for post-Soviet countries."
Transparency International, which publishes an annual Corruption Perceptions Index, shows that
corruption surged in
Ukraine during the late 1990s
and remains at obscene levels (though recent
years have shown slight improvements). Taylor was ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009, when corruption sharply
worsened despite
hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. aid
.
Ukraine is now ranked as the
120th
least
corrupt nation in the world
-- lower
than Egypt and Pakistan, two other major U.S. aid recipients. What Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder is to the NFL,
Taylor appears to be to the anti-corruption cause.
Bribing foreign politicians to encourage honest government makes as much sense as
distributing free condoms to encourage abstinence. Rather than encouraging good governance practices, foreign aid is
more likely to produce kleptocracies, or governments of thieves. As a Brookings Institution analysis observed, "The
history of
U.S. assistance is littered
with tales of
corrupt foreign officials using aid to line their own pockets, support military buildups, and pursue vanity projects."
And both American politicians and bureaucrats are want to continue the aid gravy train, regardless of how foreign
regimes waste the money or use it to repress their own citizens.
If U.S. aid was effective, Ukraine would have become a rule of law paradise long ago. The country's new president,
Volodymyr Zelensky, may be sincere in his efforts to root out corruption. But it is an insult to both him and his nation
to pretend that Ukraine cannot clean up its act without help from Donald Trump. The surest way to reduce foreign
corruption is to end foreign aid.
"... Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually its founder and owner Mr Nicolai Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners into the company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's appetites. He had brought in Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it didn't help him. ..."
"... Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney General Shokin to investigate Burisma trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and 150 thousand dollar per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the Ukrainian tax code; it can't be recognised as legitimate expenditure. ..."
"... These [neoliberal] politicians are the absolute dregs of our society. Human cesspits. They make the pirates of old look like kindergarten. And they mass murder to get the loot. ..."
"... Author does not mention approx 40 tons of gold transferred to US at night, covered lorries, darkened airfield. Coincidentally just a few hours before MH370 went missing ..."
"... Implementation of Western values and democracy cost Libia more than 134 ton of gold. Not including shares and valuable papers..How democracy working in Libya? ..."
"... Regarding the Ukraine, about 12 oligarch holding of 60% of the wealth.Today the Ukrainian oligarch have to pay USA democrats oligarch for protection. Whatever who is Ukraine President-they must to pay to USA.Ukraine today is like banana republic :Honduras or Guatemala with 60% of population living below poverty line. Just do the homework all of you readers. ..."
"... All Democrats and RINO's who are currently participating in the impeachment hoax in order to keep themselves from being indicted, prosecuted, and imprisoned for their parts in this corruption are automatically guilty of obstruction of justice, because that's exactly what they're doing. ..."
"... She was never supposed to lose. ..."
"... DNC types always show up at these poor countries to plunder them. Haiti: Clinton Foundation. Ukraine: Clinton Foundation. Ukraine: Biden Family foundation. ..."
Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one.
During the Obama presidency, Biden was the US proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised
transfer of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of the Ukraine; the money was stolen,
and Biden took a big share of the spoils.
It is a story of ripping the US taxpayer and the Ukrainian customer off for the benefit of a few corruptioners, American and
Ukrainian. And it is a story of Kiev regime and its dependence on the US and IMF. The Ukraine has a few midsize deposits of natural
gas, sufficient for domestic household consumption. The cost of its production was quite low; and the Ukrainians got used to pay
pennies for their gas. Actually, it was so cheap to produce that the Ukraine could provide all its households with free gas for
heating and cooking, just like Libya did. Despite low consumer price, the gas companies (like Burisma) had very high profits and
very little expenditure.
After the 2014 coup, IMF demanded to raise the price of gas for the domestic consumer to European levels, and the new president
Petro Poroshenko obliged them. The prices went sky-high. The Ukrainians were forced to pay many times more for their cooking and
heating; and huge profits went to coffers of the gas companies. Instead of raising taxes or lowering prices, President Poroshenko
demanded the gas companies to pay him or subsidise his projects. He said that he arranged the price hike; it means he should be
considered a partner.
Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually its founder and owner Mr Nicolai
Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners into the company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's
appetites. He had brought in Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it didn't help him.
Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney General Shokin to investigate Burisma
trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and
150 thousand dollar per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the Ukrainian tax code; it can't
be recognised as legitimate expenditure.
At that time Biden the father entered the fray. He called Poroshenko and gave him six hours to close the case against his son.
Otherwise, one billion dollars of the US taxpayers' funds won't pass to the Ukrainian corruptioners. Zlochevsky, the Burisma owner,
paid Biden well for this conversation: he received between three and ten million dollars, according to different sources.
AG Shokin said he can't close the case within six hours; Poroshenko sacked him and installed Mr Lutsenko in his stead. Lutsenko
was willing to dismiss the case of Burisma, but he also could not do it in a day, or even in a week. Biden, as we know, could
not keep his trap shut: by talking about the pressure he put on Poroshenko, he incriminated himself. Meanwhile Mr Shokin gave
evidence that Biden put pressure on Poroshenko to fire him, and now it was confirmed. The evidence was given to the US lawyers
in connection with another case, Firtash case.
... ... ...
This is not the only case of US-connected corruption in Ukraine. There is
Amos J. Hochstein, a protege of former VP Joe Biden, who has served
in the Barack Obama administration as the Assistant Secretary of State for Energy Resources. He still hangs on the Ukraine.
Together with an American citizen Andrew Favorov, the Deputy Director
of Naftogas he organised very expensive "reverse gas import" into Ukraine. In this scheme, the Russian gas is bought by
Europeans and afterwards sold to Ukraine with a wonderful margin. In reality, gas comes from Russia directly, but payments go
via Hochstein. It is much more costly than to buy directly from Russia; Ukrainian people pay, while the margin is collected
by Hochstein and Favorov. Now they plan to import liquefied gas from the United States, at even higher price. Again, the price
will be paid by the Ukrainians, while profits will go to Hochstein and Favorov.
In all these scams, there are people of Clinton and spooks who are fully integrated in the Democratic Party.
A former head of CIA, Robert James Woolsey, now sits on the Board of Directors of Velta,
producing Ukrainian titanium. Woolsey is a neocon, a member of the
Project for the New American Century (PNAC),
pro-Israel think-tank, and a man who relentlessly pushed for Iraq war. A typical Democrat spook, now he gets profits from Ukrainian
ore deposits.
One of the best Ukrainian corruption stories is connected with
Audrius Butkevicius, the former Minister of Defence (1996
to 2000) and a Member of the Seimas (Parliament) of post-Soviet Lithuania. Mr AB is supposedly working for MI6, and now
is a member of the notorious Institute for Statecraft, a UK
deep state propaganda outfit involved in disinformation operations, subversion of the democratic process and promoting
Russophobia and the idea of a new cold war. In 1991 he commanded snipers that shoot Lithuanian protesters. The kills were ascribed
to the Soviet armed forces, and the last Soviet President Mr Gorbachev ordered speedy withdrawal of his troops from Lithuania.
Mr AB became the Minister of Defence of his independent nation. In 1997 the Honourable Minister of Defence "had requested 300,000
USD from a senior executive of a troubled oil company for his assistance in obtaining the discontinuance of criminal proceedings
concerning the company's vast debts", in the language of the court judgement. He was arrested on receipt of the bribe, had been
sentenced to five years of jail, but a man with such qualifications was not left to rot in a prison.
In 2005 he commanded the snipers who killed protesters in Kyrgyzstan, in Georgia he repeated the feat in 2003 during the Rose
Revolution. In 2014 he did it again in Kiev, where his snipers killed around a hundred men, protesters and police. He was brought
to Kiev by Mr Turchinov, who called himself the "acting President" and who countersigned Joe Biden's billion dollars' grant.
In October 2018 the name of Mr AB came up again. Military warehouses of Chernigov had caught fire; allegedly
thousands of shells stored for fighting the separatists had been destroyed by fire. And it was not the first fire of this kind:
the previous one, equally huge, torched Ukrainian army warehouses in Vinnitsa in 2017. Altogether, there were 12 huge army arsenal
fires for the last few years. Just for 2018, the damage was over $2 billion.
When Chief Military Prosecutor of Ukraine Anatoly Matios
investigated the fires, he discovered that 80% of weapons and shells in the warehouses were missing. They weren't destroyed
by fire, they weren't there in the first place. Instead of being used to kill the Russian-speaking Ukrainians of Donetsk, the
hardware had been shipped from the port of Nikolaev to Syria, to the Islamic rebels and to ISIS. And the man who organised this
enormous operation was our Mr AB, the old fighter for democracy on behalf of MI6, acting in cahoots with the Minister of Defence
Poltorak and Mr Turchinov, the friend of Mr Biden. (They say Mr Matios
was given $10 million for his silence).
The loss was of Ukrainian people, and of US taxpayers, while the beneficiaries were the Deep State, which is probably
just another name for the deadly mix of spooks, media and politicians.
The Plundering Of Ukraine By Corrupt American Democrats. Whats new. The plundering of Syria - the Golan. Genie oil - Every
leading democrat name is on that Shareholder's list. Plundering of Serbia. Kosovo, its Gold mines and Minerals. Speciality per
Madeleine Albright . Wesley Clark and the Clintons. Sniff around where the Libyan gold went....not Fort Knox
These [neoliberal] politicians are the absolute dregs of our society. Human cesspits. They make the pirates of old look
like kindergarten. And they mass murder to get the loot.
Author does not mention approx 40 tons of gold transferred to US at night, covered lorries, darkened airfield. Coincidentally
just a few hours before MH370 went missing .
Implementation of Western values and democracy cost Libia more than 134 ton of gold. Not including shares and valuable
papers..How democracy working in Libya?
Fantastic article. Thanks for Israel. Thanks God, whatever you believe or not, majority of the World citizens are good and
friendly. Were did not nuke each other despite 1% of our corrupted elites. They hold about 90% of media, can give Hollywood Oscar
Price or Nobel Price to my lovely dog. If I paid them.
Regarding the Ukraine, about 12 oligarch holding of 60% of the wealth.Today
the Ukrainian oligarch have to pay USA democrats oligarch for protection. Whatever who is Ukraine President-they must to pay
to USA.Ukraine today is like banana republic :Honduras or Guatemala with 60% of population living below poverty line. Just do
the homework all of you readers.
You will NOT see once micron of this on the lame stream Media.....nor out of the mouths of Dems anywhere.....THIS info if true
should ensure the Dem corrupt Party is dissolved and a new one using pro-USA model is erected.
That we have seen little of this story in the Wall Street Journal nor Fox News shows just who controls those networks for sure.....This
story MUST become a part of the Congressional record....ASAP.....and ALL these folks no matter which Party MUST be held accountable
for lost US Funds...OUR TAX DOLLARS. Imagine what could be done with 3 BILLION for OUR Vets or the homeless......yet you see little
exposure of this corruption any where in US papers or even conservative outfits...????
All Democrats and RINO's who are currently participating in the impeachment hoax in order to keep themselves from being
indicted, prosecuted, and imprisoned for their parts in this corruption are automatically guilty of obstruction of justice, because
that's exactly what they're doing.
DNC types always show up at these poor countries to plunder them. Haiti: Clinton Foundation. Ukraine: Clinton Foundation.
Ukraine: Biden Family foundation.
Corrupt American Democrats AND Corrupt American Republicans . . . who gave Standing Ovations in Washington, District of Columbia,
United States Capitol for the Murders and Burning Humans Alive. United States President Trump never received 5 minute Standing
Ovations in Washington, District of Columbia, United States Capitol by the Capitalist Political Party composed of two factions:
Corrupt American Republicans AND Corrupt American Democrats.
So Shamir says that Tsarev is claiming Daniluk is the "whistleblower"? A foreigner can be a whistleblower?
And " Daniluk was supposed to accompany President Zelensky on his visit to Washington; but he was informed that there is an
order for his arrest. He remained in Kiev." ?? An order to arrest Daniluk in Washington, is that the claim? Why and who would
arrest him in Washington?
We would all be better off, including the Ukrainians, if they had stayed with Russia, where they were.
Money quote: “Top Dems are involved in the plundering of the Ukraine: new names, mind-boggling accounts."
Notable quotes:
"... Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one. During the Obama presidency, Biden was the US proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised transfer of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of the Ukraine; the money was stolen, and Biden took a big share of the spoils. ..."
"... Two years ago, (that is already under President Trump) the United States began to investigate the allocation of 3 billion dollars; it was allocated in 2014, in 2015, in 2016; one billion dollars per year. The investigation showed that the documents were falsified, the money was transferred to Ukraine, and stolen. The investigators tracked each payment, discovered where the money went, where it was spent and how it was stolen. ..."
"... The money was allocated with the flagrant violation of American law. There was no risk assessment, no audit reports. Normally the USAID, when allocating cash, always prepares a substantial package of documents. But the billions were given to Ukraine completely without documents. The criminal case on the embezzlement of USAID funds had been signed personally by the US Attorney General, so these issues are very much alive. ..."
"... Poroshenko was aware of that; he gave orders to declare Sam Kislin persona non grata. Once the old man (he is over 80) flew into Kiev airport and he was not allowed to come in; he spent the night in detention and was flown back to the US next day. Poroshenko had been totally allied with Clinton camp. ..."
"... In all these scams, there are people of Clinton and spooks who are fully integrated in the Democratic Party. A former head of CIA, Robert James Woolsey, now sits on the Board of Directors of Velta , producing Ukrainian titanium. Woolsey is a neocon, a member of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), pro-Israel think-tank, and a man who relentlessly pushed for Iraq war. A typical Democrat spook, now he gets profits from Ukrainian ore deposits. ..."
"... The loss was of Ukrainian people, and of US taxpayers, while the beneficiaries were the Deep State, which is probably just another name for the deadly mix of spooks, media and politicians. ..."
"... The globalist criminal elites will not be held responsible for any of these crimes. They're bound together by ties of blackmail forged by guys like Epstein, mutually assured incrimination in serial swindles which cross Left and Right political boundaries and literal murder in the case of guys like Seth Rich. ..."
"... If they were only stealing money it would be bad enough, but the fact that these same grifters are our "diplomats" and warmakers is positively Orwellian. Watching these petty hoodlums play nuclear chicken with Russia so they can squeeze more shekels from the supine Ukraine would be laughable if I could get the first-strike nightmares of my Cold War childhood out of my head long enough to laugh. ..."
A talk with Oleg Tsarev reveals the alleged identity of the "Trump/Ukraine Whistleblower"
Israel Shamir October
25, 2019 2,400 Words 6 Comments Reply
Top Dems are involved in the plundering of the Ukraine: new names, mind-boggling accounts.
The mysterious 'whistleblower' whose report had unleashed the impeachment is named in the
exclusive interview given to the Unz Review by a prominent Ukrainian politician, an
ex-Member of Parliament of four terms, a candidate for Ukraine's presidency, Oleg Tsarev.
Mr Tsarev, a tall, agile and graceful man, a good speaker and a prolific writer, had been a
leading and popular Ukrainian politician before the 2014 putsch; he stayed in the Ukraine after
President Yanukovych's flight; ran for the Presidency against Mr Poroshenko, and eventually had
to go to exile due to multiple threats to his life. During the failed attempt to secede, he was
elected the speaker of the Parliament of Novorossia (South-Eastern Ukraine). I spoke to him in
Crimea, where he lives in the pleasant seaside town of Yalta. Tsarev still has many supporters
in the Ukraine, and is a leader of the opposition to the Kiev regime.
Oleg, you followed Biden story from its very inception. Biden is not the only Dem
politician involved in the Ukrainian corruption schemes, is he?
Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his
partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one. During the Obama presidency, Biden was the US
proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised transfer
of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of the Ukraine;
the money was stolen, and Biden took a big share of the spoils.
It is a story of ripping the US taxpayer and the Ukrainian customer off for the benefit of a
few corruptioners, American and Ukrainian. And it is a story of Kiev regime and its dependence
on the US and IMF. The Ukraine has a few midsize deposits of natural gas, sufficient for
domestic household consumption. The cost of its production was quite low; and the Ukrainians
got used to pay pennies for their gas. Actually, it was so cheap to produce that the Ukraine
could provide all its households with free gas for heating and cooking, just like Libya did.
Despite low consumer price, the gas companies (like Burisma) had very high profits and very
little expenditure.
After the 2014 coup, IMF demanded to raise the price of gas for the domestic consumer to
European levels, and the new president Petro Poroshenko obliged them. The prices went sky-high.
The Ukrainians were forced to pay many times more for their cooking and heating; and huge
profits went to coffers of the gas companies. Instead of raising taxes or lowering prices,
President Poroshenko demanded the gas companies to pay him or subsidise his projects. He said
that he arranged the price hike; it means he should be considered a partner.
Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually its
founder and owner Mr Nicolai Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners into the
company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's appetites. He had brought in
Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it didn't help him.
Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney
General Shokin to investigate Burisma trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin
immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and 150 thousand dollar
per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the Ukrainian tax
code; it can't be recognised as legitimate expenditure.
At that time Biden the father entered the fray. He called Poroshenko and gave him six hours
to close the case against his son. Otherwise, one billion dollars of the US taxpayers' funds
won't pass to the Ukrainian corruptioners. Zlochevsky, the Burisma owner, paid Biden well for
this conversation: he received between three and ten million dollars, according to different
sources.
AG Shokin said he can't close the case within six hours; Poroshenko sacked him and installed
Mr Lutsenko in his stead. Lutsenko was willing to dismiss the case of Burisma, but he also
could not do it in a day, or even in a week. Biden, as we know, could not keep his trap shut:
by talking about the pressure he put on Poroshenko, he incriminated himself. Meanwhile Mr
Shokin gave evidence that Biden put pressure on Poroshenko to fire him, and now it was
confirmed. The evidence was given to the US lawyers in connection with another case, Firtash
case.
What is Firtash Case?
The Democrats wanted to get another Ukrainian oligarch, Mr Firtash, to the US and make him
to confess that he illegally supported Trump's campaign for the sake of Russia. Firtash had
been arrested in Vienna, Austria; there he fought extradition to the US. His lawyers claimed it
is purely political case, and they used Mr Shokin's deposition to substantiate their claim. For
this reason, the evidence supplied by Shokin is not easily reversible, even if Shokin were
willing, and he is not. He also stated under oath that the Democrats pressurised him to help
and extradite Firtash to the US, though he had no standing in this purely American issue. It
seems that Mrs Clinton believes that Firtash's funds helped Trump to win elections, an
extremely unlikely thing [says Mr Tsarev].
Talking about Burisma and Biden; what is this billion dollars of aid that Biden could
give or withhold?
It is USAID money, the main channel of the US aid for "support of democracy". First billion
dollars of USAID came to the Ukraine in 2014. This was authorised by Joe Biden, while for
Ukraine, the papers were signed by Mr Turchinov, the "acting President". The Ukrainian
constitution does not know of such a position, and Turchinov, "the acting President" had no
right to sign neither a legal nor financial document. Thus, all the documents that were signed
by him, in fact, had no legal force. However, Biden countersigned the papers signed by
Turchynov and allocated money for Ukraine. And the money was stolen – by the Democrats
and their Ukrainian counterparts.
Two years ago, (that is already under President Trump) the United States began to
investigate the allocation of 3 billion dollars; it was allocated in 2014, in 2015, in 2016;
one billion dollars per year. The investigation showed that the documents were falsified, the
money was transferred to Ukraine, and stolen. The investigators tracked each payment,
discovered where the money went, where it was spent and how it was stolen.
As a result, in October 2018, the U.S. Department of Justice opened a criminal case for
"Abuse of power and embezzlement of American taxpayers' money". Among the accused there are two
consecutive Finance Ministers of the Ukraine, Mrs Natalie Ann Jaresko who served 2014-2016 and
Mr Alexander Daniluk who served 2016-2018, and three US banks. The investigation caused the
USAID to cease issuing grants since August 2019. As Trump said, now the US does not give away
money and does not impose democracy.
The money was allocated with the flagrant violation of American law. There was no risk
assessment, no audit reports. Normally the USAID, when allocating cash, always prepares a
substantial package of documents. But the billions were given to Ukraine completely without
documents. The criminal case on the embezzlement of USAID funds had been signed personally by
the US Attorney General, so these issues are very much alive.
Sam Kislin was involved in this investigation. He is a good friend and associate of
Giuliani, Trump's lawyer and an ex-mayor of New York. Kislin is well known in Kiev, and I have
many friends who are Sam's friends [said Tsarev]. I learned of his progress, because some of my
friends were detained in the United States, or interrogated in Ukraine. They briefed me about
this. It appears that Burisma is just the tip of the scandal, the tip of the iceberg. If Trump
will carry on, and use what was already initiated and investigated, the whole headquarters of
the Democratic party will come down. They will not be able to hold elections. I have no right
to name names, but believe me, leading functionaries of the Democratic party are involved.
Poroshenko was aware of that; he gave orders to declare Sam Kislin persona non grata. Once
the old man (he is over 80) flew into Kiev airport and he was not allowed to come in; he spent
the night in detention and was flown back to the US next day. Poroshenko had been totally
allied with Clinton camp.
And President Zelensky? Is he free from Clintonite Democrats' influence?
If he were, there would not be the scandal of Trump phone call. How the Democrats learned of
this call and its alleged content? The official version says there was a CIA man, a
whistle-blower, who reported to the Democrats. What the version does not clarify, where this
whistle-blower was located during the call. I tell you, he was located in Kiev, and he was
present at the conversation, at the Ukrainian President Zelensky's side. This man was (perhaps)
a CIA asset, but he also was a close associate of George Soros, and a Ukrainian high-ranking
official. His name is Mr Alexander Daniluk . He is also the man
the investigation of Sam Kislin and of the DoJ had led to, the Finance Minister of Ukraine at
the time, the man who was responsible for the embezzlement of three billion US taxpayer's best
dollars. The DoJ issued an order for his arrest. Naturally he is devoted to Biden personally,
and to the Dems in general. I would not trust his version of the phone call at all.
Daniluk was supposed to accompany President Zelensky on his visit to Washington; but he was
informed that there is an order for his arrest. He remained in Kiev. And soon afterwards, the
hell of the alleged leaked phone call broke out. Zelensky administration investigated and
concluded that the leak was done by Mr Alexander Daniluk, who is known for his close relations
with George Soros and with Mr Biden. Alexander Daniluk had been fired. (However, he did not
admit his guilt and said the leak was done by his sworn enemy, the head of president's
administration office, Mr Andrey Bogdan , who allegedly framed
Daniluk.)
This is not the only case of US-connected corruption in Ukraine. There is Amos J. Hochstein , a protege of former
VP Joe Biden, who has served in the Barack Obama administration as the Assistant Secretary of
State for Energy Resources. He still hangs on the Ukraine. Together with an American citizen
Andrew Favorov
, the Deputy Director of Naftogas he organised very expensive "reverse gas import" into
Ukraine. In this scheme, the Russian gas is bought by Europeans and afterwards sold to Ukraine
with a wonderful margin. In reality, gas comes from Russia directly, but payments go via
Hochstein. It is much more costly than to buy directly from Russia; Ukrainian people pay, while
the margin is collected by Hochstein and Favorov. Now they plan to import liquefied gas from
the United States, at even higher price. Again, the price will be paid by the Ukrainians, while
profits will go to Hochstein and Favorov.
In all these scams, there are people of Clinton and spooks who are fully integrated in the
Democratic Party. A former head of CIA, Robert James Woolsey, now sits on the Board of
Directors of Velta , producing Ukrainian
titanium. Woolsey is a neocon, a member of the Project for the New
American Century (PNAC), pro-Israel think-tank, and a man who relentlessly pushed for Iraq
war. A typical Democrat spook, now he gets profits from Ukrainian ore deposits.
One of the best Ukrainian corruption stories is connected with Audrius Butkevicius , the former
Minister of Defence (1996 to 2000) and a Member of the Seimas (Parliament) of post-Soviet
Lithuania. Mr AB is supposedly working for MI6, and now is a member of the notorious Institute for
Statecraft , a UK deep state propaganda outfit involved in disinformation operations,
subversion of the democratic process and promoting Russophobia and the idea of a new cold war.
In 1991 he commanded snipers that shoot Lithuanian protesters. The kills were ascribed to the
Soviet armed forces, and the last Soviet President Mr Gorbachev ordered speedy withdrawal of
his troops from Lithuania. Mr AB became the Minister of Defence of his independent nation. In
1997 the Honourable Minister of Defence "had requested 300,000 USD from a senior executive of a
troubled oil company for his assistance in obtaining the discontinuance of criminal proceedings
concerning the company's vast debts", in the language of the court judgement. He was arrested
on receipt of the bribe, had been sentenced to five years of jail, but a man with such
qualifications was not left to rot in a prison.
In 2005 he commanded the snipers who killed protesters in Kyrgyzstan, in Georgia he repeated
the feat in 2003 during the Rose Revolution. In 2014 he did it again in Kiev, where his snipers
killed around a hundred men, protesters and police. He was brought to Kiev by Mr Turchinov, who
called himself the "acting President" and who countersigned Joe Biden's billion dollars'
grant.
In October 2018 the name of Mr AB came up again. Military warehouses of Chernigov had caught
fire; allegedly thousands of shells stored for fighting the separatists had been destroyed by
fire. And it was not the first fire of this kind: the previous one, equally huge, torched
Ukrainian army warehouses in Vinnitsa in 2017. Altogether, there were 12 huge army arsenal
fires for the last few years. Just for 2018, the damage was over $2 billion.
When Chief Military Prosecutor of Ukraine Anatoly Matios investigated the fires, he
discovered that 80% of weapons and shells in the warehouses were missing. They weren't
destroyed by fire, they weren't there in the first place. Instead of being used to kill the
Russian-speaking Ukrainians of Donetsk, the hardware had been shipped from the port of Nikolaev
to Syria, to the Islamic rebels and to ISIS. And the man who organised this enormous operation
was our Mr AB, the old fighter for democracy on behalf of MI6, acting in cahoots with the
Minister of Defence Poltorak and Mr Turchinov, the friend of Mr
Biden. (They say Mr Matios was given $10 million for his silence).
The loss was of Ukrainian people, and of US taxpayers, while the beneficiaries were the Deep
State, which is probably just another name for the deadly mix of spooks, media and
politicians.
The globalist criminal elites will not be held responsible for any of these crimes. They're
bound together by ties of blackmail forged by guys like Epstein, mutually assured
incrimination in serial swindles which cross Left and Right political boundaries and literal
murder in the case of guys like Seth Rich. The cozy proximity of recently-murdered Epstein
himself to crypto-converso AG Barr's family only makes me more certain that they will get
away with this heist like they've done with dozens of other billion-dollar swindles.
If they were only stealing money it would be bad enough, but the fact that these same
grifters are our "diplomats" and warmakers is positively Orwellian. Watching these petty
hoodlums play nuclear chicken with Russia so they can squeeze more shekels from the supine
Ukraine would be laughable if I could get the first-strike nightmares of my Cold War
childhood out of my head long enough to laugh.
Who will hold then responsible? The country appears to have been entirely taken over by
crookish spooks and politicians.
The US is now confirmed as a cleptocracy.
Ukraine is corrupted by outsiders (those who are not Ukrainian/Russian). In past centuries
there was a simple but effective answer to foreigners corrupting their country. The Cossacks
would sharpen up their sabres. saddle up their horses and have a slaughter. It was effective
then and would be effective today. Get rid of those who are not Slavic.
"... How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt politics? The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook expansion.. NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the target area. ..."
"... Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials. ..."
"... Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to mind. ..."
"... A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion? ..."
"... As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians. ..."
"... The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly acquired ones. ..."
"... Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor Cohen ascribes to the US. ..."
"... We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU, or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay. ..."
"... Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an individual example with AP, but they all seem like that. ..."
Thanks for your sharing you views about Prof Cohen, a most interesting and principled
man.
Only after reading the article did I realize that the UR (that's you) also provided the
Batchelor Show podcast. Thanks.
I've been listening to these broadcasts over their entirety, now going on for six or so
years. What's always struck me is Cohen's level-headeness and equanimity. I've also detected
affection for Kentucky, his native state. Not something to be expected from a Princeton / NYU
academic nor an Upper West Side resident.
And once again expressing appreciation for the UR!
How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt
politics?
The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook
expansion..
NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA
resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the
target area.
Behind NATO lies the reason for Bexit, the Yellow Jackets, the unrest in Iraq and Egypt,
Yemen etc.
Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials. Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to
follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of
the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to
mind.
I think [private use of public force for private gain] is what Trump meant when Trump said
to impeach Trump for investigating the Ukraine matter amounts to Treason.. but it is the
exactly the activity type that Hallmarks CIA instigated regime change.
A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can
be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other
plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion?
The key question is what is the gain in separating Ukraine from Russia, adding it to NATO,
and turning Russia and Ukraine into enemies. And what are the most likely results, e.g. can
it ever work without risking a catastrophic event?
There are the usual empire-building and weapons business reasons, but those should
function within a rational framework. As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the
Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would
be otherwise for most Ukrainians. And an increase in tensions in the region with
inevitable impact on the business there. So what exactly is the gain and for whom?
The Washington-led attempt to fast-track Ukraine into NATO in 2013–14 resulted in
the Maidan crisis, the overthrow of the country's constitutionally elected president Viktor
Yanukovych, and to the still ongoing proxy civil war in Donbass.
Which exemplifies the stupidity and arrogance of the American
military/industrial/political Establishment -- none of that had anything to do with US
national security (least of all antagonizing Russia) -- how fucking hypocritical is it to
presume the Monroe Doctrine, and then try to get the Ukraine into NATO? -- none of it would
have been of any benefit whatsoever to the average American.
According to a recent govt study, only 12% of Americans can read above a 9th grade level.
This effectively mean (((whoever))) controls the MSM controls the world. NOTHING will change
for the better while the (((enemy))) owns our money supply.
There was NO "annexation" of Crimea by Russia. Crimea WAS annexed, but by Ukraine.
Russia and Crimea re-unified. Crimea has been part of Russia for long than America has
existed – since it was taken from the Ottoman Empire over 350 yrs ago. The vast
majority of the people identify as Russian, and speak only Russian.
To annex, the verb, means to use armed force to seize sovereign territory and put it under
the control of the invading forces government. Pretty much as the early Americans did to
Northern Mexico, Hawaii, etc. Russia used no force, the Governors of Crimea applied for
re-unification with Russia, Russia advised a referendum, which was held, and with a 96%
turnout, 97% voted for re-unification. This was done formally and legally, conforming with
all the international mandates.
It is very damaging for anyone to say that Russia "annexed" Crimea, because when people
read, quickly moving past the world, they subliminally match the word to their held
perception of the concept and move on. Thus they match the word "annex" to their conception
of the use of Armed Force against a resistant population, without checking.
All Cohen is doing here is reinforcing the pushed, lying Empire narrative, that Russia
invaded and used force, when the exact opposite is true!!
@Carlton
Meyer One wonders if Mr. Putin, as he puts his head on the pillow at night, fancies that
he should have rolled the Russian tanks into Kiev, right after the 2014 US-financed coup of
Ukraine's elected president, which was accomplished while he was pre-occupied with the Sochi
Olympics, and been done with it. He had every justification to do so, but perhaps feared
Western blowback. Well, the blowback happened anyway, so maybe Putin was too cautious.
The new Trump Admin threw him under the bus when it installed the idiot Nikki Haley as UN
Ambassador, whose first words were that Russia must give Crimea back. With its only major
warm water port located at Sevastopol, that wasn't about to happen, and the US Deep State
knew it.
Given how he has been so unfairly treated by the media, and never given a chance to enact
his Russian agenda, anyone who thinks that Trump was 'selected' by the deep state has rocks
for brains. The other night, on Rick Sanchez's RT America show, former US diplomat, and
frequent guest Jim Jatras said that he would not be too surprised if 20 GOP Senators flipped
and voted to convict Trump if the House votes to impeach.
The deep state can't abide four more years of the bombastic, Twitter-obsessed Trump, hence
this Special Ops Ukraine false flag, designed to fool a majority of the people. The smooth
talking, more warlike Pence is one of them. The night of the long knives is approaching.
The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US
always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly
acquired ones.
The "logic" of the Dem party is remarkable. Dems don't even deny that Biden is corrupt,
that he blatantly abused the office of Vice-President for personal gain. What's more, he was
dumb enough to boast about it publicly. Therefore, let's impeach Trump.
These people don't give a hoot about the interests of the US as a country, or even as an
Empire. Their insatiable greed for money and power blinds them to everything. By rights,
those who orchestrated totally fake Russiagate and now push for impeachment, when Russiagate
flopped miserably, should be hanged on lampposts for high treason. Unfortunately, justice
won't be served. So, we have to be satisfied with an almost assured prospect of this
impeachment thing to flop, just like Russiagate before it. But in the process incalculable
damage will be done to our country and its institutions.
Those who support the separation of Kosovo from Serbia without Serbian consent cannot
argue against separation of Crimea from Ukraine without the consent of Kiev regime.
On the other hand, those who believe that post-WWII borders are sacrosanct have to
acknowledge that Crimea belongs to Russia (illegally even by loose Soviet standards
transferred to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956), Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union
should be restored, and Germany should be re-divided.
At least now I know why Ukraine is so essential to American national security. It's so even
more of my and my families' taxes can pay for a massive expansion of Nato, which means
American military bases in Ukraine. Greenland to the borders of China.
We're encircling the earth, like those old cartoons about bankers.
@Ron
Unz I had to stop listening after the 10th min. where the good professor (without any
push-back from the interviewer) says:
Victor Yanukovich was overthrown by a street coup . at that moment, the United States
and not only the United States but the Western European Governments had to make a decision
would they acknowledge the overthrow of Yannukovic as having been legitimate, and therefore
accept whatever government emerged, and that was a fateful moment within 24hours, the
governments, including the government of president Obama endorsed what was essentially a
coup d'etat against Yanukovich.
Has the good Professor so quickly forgotten about Victoria Nuland distributing cookies
with John McCain in the Maidan as the coup was still unfolding? Her claim at the think tank
in DC where she discusses having spent $30million (if I remember correctly) for foisting the
Ukraine coup ?
Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next
president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week
later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor
Cohen ascribes to the US.
These are not simple omissions but willful acts of misleading of fools. The good
professor's little discussed career as a resource for the secret services has reemerged after
seemingly having been left out in the cold during the 1st attempted coup against Trump.
No, the real story is more than just a little NATO expansion as the professor does
suggest, but more directly, the attempted coup that the US is still trying to stage in Russia
itself, in order to regain control of Russia's vast energy resources which Putin forced the
oligarchs to disgorge. The US desperately wants to achieve this in order to be able to
ultimately also control China's access to those resources as well.
In the way that Iraq was supposed to be a staging post for an attack on Iran, Ukraine is
the staging post for an attack on Russia.
The great Russian expert stirred miles very clear of even hinting at such scenarios, even
though anyone who's thought about US world policies will easily arrive at this logical
conclusion.
What about the theft of Ukraine's farmland and the enserfing of its rural population? Isn't
this theft and enserfing of Ukrainians at least one major reason the US government got
involved, overseeing the transfer of this land into the hands of the transnational banking
crime syndicate? The Ukraine, with its rich, black soil, used to be called the breadbasket of
Europe.
Consider the fanatical intervention on the part of Victoria Nuland and the Kagans under
the guise of working for the State Dept to facilitate the theft. In a similar fashion,
according to Wayne Madsen, the State Dept. has a Dept of Foreign Asset Management, or some
similar name, that exists to protect the Chabad stranglehold on the world diamond trade, and,
according to Madsen, the language spoken and posters around the offices are in Hebrew, which
as a practical matter might as well be the case at the State Dept itself.
According to an article a few years ago at Oakland Institute, George Rohr's NCH Capital,
which latter organization has funded over 100 Chabad Houses on US campuses, owns over 1
million acres of Ukraine farmland. Other ownership interests of similarly vast tracts of
Ukraine farmland show a similar pattern of predation. At one point, it was suggested that the
Yinon Plan should be understood to include the Ukraine as the newly acquired breadbasket of
Eretz Israel. It may also be worth pointing out that now kosher Ivy League schools'
endowments are among the worst pillagers of native farmland and enserfers of the indigenous
populations they claim to protect.
@Mikhail
Well, if we really go into it, things become complicated. What Khmelnitsky united with Russia
was maybe 1/6th or 1/8th of current Ukraine. Huge (4-5 times greater) areas in the North and
West were added by Russian Tsars, almost as great areas in the South and East taken by Tsars
from Turkey and affiliated Crimean Khanate were added by Lenin, a big chunk in the West was
added by Stalin, and then in 1956 moron Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea (which he had no right to
do even by Soviet law). So, about 4/6th of "Ukraine" is Southern Russia, 1/6th is Eastern
Poland, some chunks are Hungary and Romania, and the remaining little stub is Ukraine proper.
@anon
American view always was: "yes, he is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". That
historically applied to many obnoxious regimes, now fully applies to Ukraine. In that Dems
and Reps always were essentially identical, revealing that they are two different puppets run
by the same puppet master.
Trump is hardly very intelligent, but he has some street smarts that degenerate elites
have lost. Hence their hatred of him. It is particularly galling for the elites that Trump
won in 2016, and has every chance of winning again in 2020 (unless they decide to murder him,
like JFK; but that would be a real giveaway, even the dumbest sheeple would smell the
rat).
@follyofwar
The only reason I can imagine that Putin/Russia would want to "take over" Ukraine and have
this political problem child back in the family might be because of Ukraine's black soil.
But it is probably not worth the aggravation.
Russia is building up its agricultural sector via major greenhouse installations and other
innovations.
@AP
Well, you are a true simpleton who repeats shallow conventional views. You don't ever seem to
think deeper about what you write, e.g. if Yanukovitch could beat anyone in a 1-on-1 election
than he obviously wasn't that unpopular and that makes Maidan illegal by any standard. You
say he could beat Tiahnybok, who was one of the leaders of Maidan, how was then Maidan
democratic? Or you don't care for democracy if people vote against your preferences?
Trade with Russia is way down and it is not coming back. That is my point – there
was definitely a way to do this better. It wasn't a choice of 'one or the other' –
actually EU was under the impression that Ukraine would help open up the Russian market. Your
either-or wasn't the plan, so did Kiev lie to EU? No wonder Ukraine has a snowball chance in
hell of joining EU.
@Skeptikal
Russia moved to the first place in the world in wheat exports, while greatly increasing its
production of meat, fowl, and fish. Those who supplied these commodities lost Russian market
for good. In fact, with sanctions, food in Russia got a lot better, and food in Moscow got
immeasurably better: now it's local staff instead of crap shipped from half-a-world away.
Funny thing is, Russian production of really good fancy cheeses has soared (partially with
the help of French and Italian producers who moved in to avoid any stupid sanctions).
So, there is no reason for Russia to take Ukraine on any conditions, especially
considering Ukraine's exorbitant external debt. If one calculates European demand for
transplantation kidneys and prostitutes, two of the most successful Ukrainian exports,
Ukraine will pay off its debt – never. Besides, the majority of Russians learned to
despise Ukraine due to its subservient vassalage to the US (confirmed yet again by the
transcript of the conversation between Trump and Ze), so the emotional factor is also
virtually gone. Now the EU and the US face the standard rule of retail: you broke it, you own
it. That infuriates Americans and EU bureaucrats more than anything.
@Sergey
Krieger "Demography statistic won't support fairy tales by solzhenicin and his kind."
-- What's your point? Your post reads like an attempt at saying that Kaganovitch was white
like snow and that it does not matter what crimes were committed in the Soviet Union because
of the "demography statistic" and because you, Sergey Krieger, are a grander person next to
Solzhenitsyn and "his kind." By the way, had not A. I. S. returned to Russia, away from the
coziness of western life?
S.K.: "You should start research onto mass dying of population after 1991 and subsequent
and ongoing demographic catastroph in Russia under current not as "brutal " as soviet
regime."
@AP
Maidan was an illegal coup that violated Ukrainian constitution (I should say all of them,
there were too many) and lots of other laws. And that's not the worst part of it. But it
already happened, there is no going back for Ukraine. It's a "yes or no" thing, you can't be
a little bit pregnant. We can either commiserate with Ukraine or gloat, but it committed
suicide. Some say this project was doomed from the start. I think Ukraine had a chance and
blew it.
@AnonFromTN
I usually refrain from labelling off-cycle changes in government as revolutions or coups
– it clearly depends on one's views and can't be determined.
In general, when violence or military is involved, it is more likely it was a coup. If a
country has a reasonably open election process, violently overthrowing the current government
would also seem like a coup, since it is unnecessary. Ukraine had both violence and a coming
election that was democratic. If Yanukovitch would prevent or manipulate the elections, one
could make a case that at that point – after the election – the population could
stage a ' revolution '.
AP is a simpleton who repeats badly thought out slogans and desperately tries to save some
face for the Maidan fiasco – so we will not change his mind, his mind is done with
changes, it is all about avoiding regrets even if it means living in a lie. One can almost
feel sorry for him, if he wasn't so obnoxious.
Ukraine has destroyed its own future gradually after 1991, all the elites there failed,
Yanukovitch was just the last in a long line of failures, the guy before him (Yushenko?) left
office with a 5% approval. Why wasn't there a revolution against him? Maidan put a cherry on
that rotting cake – a desperate scream of pain by people who had lost all hope and so
blindly fell for cheap promises by the new-old hustlers.
We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU,
or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part
of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay.
Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete
disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an
individual example with AP, but they all seem like that.
@AP
You intentionally omitted the second part of what I wrote: 'a reasonably democratic
elections', neither 18th century American colonies, nor Russia in 1917 or Romania in 1989,
had them. Ukraine in 2014 did.
So all your belly-aching is for nothing. The talk about 'subverting' and doing a
preventive 'revolution' on Maidan to prevent 'subversion' has a very Stalinist ring to it. If
you start revolutionary violence because you claim to anticipate that something bad might
happen, well, the sky is the limit and you have no rules.
You are desperately trying to justify a stupid and unworkable act. As we watch the
unfolding disaster and millions leaving Ukraine, this "Maidan was great!!!" mantra will sound
even more silly. But enjoy it, it is not Somalia, wow, I guess as long as a country is not
Somalia it is ok. Ukraine is by far the poorest large country in Europe. How is that a
success?
@Beckow
True believers are called that because they willfully ignore facts and logic. AP is a true
believer Ukie. Ukie faith is their main undoing. Unfortunately, they are ruining the country
with their insane dreams. But that cannot be helped now. The position of a large fraction of
Ukrainian population is best described by a cruel American saying: fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, shame on me.
@AnonFromTN
You are right, it can't be helped. Another saying is that it takes two to lie: one who lies,
and one to lie to. The receiver of lies is also responsible.
What happened in Ukraine was: Nuland&Co. went to Ukraine and lied to them about '
EU, 'Marshall plan', aid, 'you will be Western ', etc,,,'. Maidanistas swallowed it
because they wanted to believe – it is easy to lie to desperate people. Making promises
is very easy. US soft power is all based on making promises.
What Nuland&Co. really wanted was to create a deep Ukraine-Russia hostility and to
grab Crimea, so they could get Russian Navy out and move Nato in. It didn't work very well,
all we have is useless hostility, and a dysfunctional state. But as long as they serve
espresso in Lviv, AP will scream that it was all worth it, 'no Somalia', it is 'all normal',
almost as good as 2013 . Right.
@AP
I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was different:
lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians
Without the unnecessary hostility and the break in business relations with Russia the
living standards in Ukraine would be higher. That, I think, noone would dispute. One can
trace that directly to the so-far failed attempt to get Ukraine into Nato and Russia out of
its Crimea bases. There has been a high cost for that policy, so it is appropriate to ask:
why? did the authors of that policy think it through?
@AP
I don't give a flying f k about Yanukovitch and your projections about what 'would be growth'
under him. He was history by 2014 in any case.
One simple point that you don't seem to grasp: it was Yanuk who negotiated the association
treaty with EU that inevitably meant Ukraine in Nato and Russia bases out of Crimea (after a
decent interval). For anyone to call Yanuk a 'pro-Russian' is idiotic – what we see
today are the results of Yanukovitch's policies. By the way, the first custom restrictions on
Ukraine's exports to Russia happened in summer 2013 under Y.
If you still think that Yanukovitch was in spite of all of that somehow a 'Russian
puppet', you must have a very low opinion of Kremlin skills in puppetry. He was not, he was
fully onboard with the EU-Nato-Crimea policy – he implemented it until he got
outflanked by even more radical forces on Maidan.
@Beckow
Well, exactly like all Ukrainian presidents before and after him, Yanuk was a thief. He might
have been a more intelligent and/or more cautious thief that Porky, but a thief he was.
Anyway, there is no point in crying over spilled milk: history has no subjunctive mood.
Ukraine has dug a hole for itself, and it still keeps digging, albeit slower, after a clown
in whole socks replaced a clown in socks with holes. By now this new clown is also a
murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although so far he has committed fewer crimes
than Porky.
There is no turning back. Regardless of Ukrainian policies, many things it used to sell
Russia won't be bought any more: Russia developed its own shipbuilding (subcontracted some to
South Korea), is making its own helicopter and ship engines, all stages of space rockets,
etc. Russia won't return any military or high-tech production to Ukraine, ever. What's more,
most Russians are now disgusted with Ukraine, which would impede improving relations even if
Ukraine gets a sane government (which is extremely unlikely in the next 5 years).
Ukraine's situation is best described by Russian black humor saying: "what we fought for
has befallen us". End of story.
@Peter
Akuleyev How many millions? It is same story. Ukraine claims more and more millions dead
from so called Hilodomor when in Russia liberals have been screaming about 100 million deaths
in russia from bolsheviks. Both are fairy tales. Now you better answer what is current
population of ukraine. The last soviet time 1992 level was 52 million. I doubt you got even
40 million now. Under soviet power both ukraine and russia population were steadily growing.
Now, under whose music you are dancing along with those in Russia that share your views when
die off very real one is going right under your nose.
By now this new clown is also a murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although
so far he has committed fewer crimes than Porky.
Have you noticed that the Republicans, while seeming to defend Trump, never challenge the
specious assertion that delaying arms to Ukraine was a threat to US security? At first I
thought this was oversight. Silly me. Keeping the New Cold War smoldering is more important
to those hawks.
Tulsi Gabbard flipping to support the impeachment enquiry was especially disappointing.
I'm guessing she was under lots of pressure, because she can't possibly believe that arming
the Ukies is good for our security. If I could get to one of her events, I'd ask her direct,
what's up with that. Obama didn't give them arms at all, even made some remarks about not
inflaming the situation. (A small token, after his people managed the coup, spent 8 years
demonizing Putin, and presided over origins of Russiagate to make Trump's [stated] goal of
better relations impossible.)
Not really. Ukies are wonnabe Nazis, but they fall way short of their ideal. The original
German Nazis were organized, capable, brave, sober, and mostly honest. Ukie scum is
disorganized, ham-handed, cowardly, drunk (or under drugs), and corrupt to the core. They are
heroes only against unarmed civilians, good only for theft, torture, and rape. When it comes
to the real fight with armed opponents, they run away under various pretexts or surrender.
Nazis should sue these impostors for defamation.
Yanukovych signed an internationally brokered power sharing agreement with his main
rivals, who then violated it. Yanukovych up to that point was the democratically elected
president of Ukraine.
Since his being violently overthrown, people have been unjustly jailed, beaten and killed
for politically motivated reasons having to do with a stated opposition to the
Euromaidan.
Yanukovych refrained from using from using considerably greater force, when compared to
others if put in the same situation, against a mob element that included property damage and
the deaths of law enforcement personnel.
In the technical legal sense, there was a legit basis to jail the likes of Tymoshenko. If
I correctly recall Yushchenko offered testimony against Tymoshenko. Rather laughable that
Poroshenko appointed the non-lawyer Lutsenko into a key legal position.
@Beckow
The undemocratic aspect involving Yanukovych's overthrow included the disproportionate number
of Svoboda members appointed to key cabinet positions. At the time, Svoboda was on record for
favoring the dissolution of Crimea's autonomous status
@AP
Grest comment #159 by Beckow. Really, I'm more concerned with the coup against POTUS that's
happening right now, since before he took office. The Ukraine is pivotal, from the Kiev
putschists collaborating with the DNC, to the CIA [pretend] whistleblowers who now subvert
Trump's investigation of those crimes.
Tragic and pitiful, the Ukrainians jumped from a rock to a hard place. Used and abandoned
by the Clinton-Soros gang, they appeal to the next abusive Sugar-Daddy. Isn't this FRANCE 24
report fairly objective?
Revisited: Five years on, what has Ukraine's Maidan Revolution achieved?
@AP
This from BBC is less current. (That magnificent bridge -the one the Ukies tried to sabotage-
is now in operation, of course.) I'm just trying to use sources that might not trigger you.
@AP
"Whenever people ask me how to figure out the truth about Ukraine, I always recommend they
watch the film Ukraine on Fire by director @lopatonok and executive produced by
@TheOliverStone. The sequel Revealing Ukraine will be out soon proud to be in it."
– Lee Sranahan (Follow @stranahan for Ukrainegate in depth.)
" .what has really changed in the life of Ukrainians?"
@Malacaay
Baltics, Ukrainians and Poles were part of the Polish Kingdom from 1025-1569 and the
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1764.
This probably explains their differences with Russia.
Russia had this area in the Russian Empire from 1764-1917. Russia called this area the
Pale of Settlement. Why? This Polish Kingdom since 1025 welcomed 25000 Jews in, who later
grew to millions by the 19th century. They are the Ashkenazis who are all over the world
these days. The name Pale was for Ashkenazis to stay in that area and not immigrate to the
rest of Russia.
The reasoning for this was not religious prejudice but the way the Ashkenazis treated the
peasants of the Pale. It was to protect the Russian peasants. This did not help after 1917. A
huge invasion of Ashkenazis descended all over Russia to take up positions all over the
Soviet Union.
Ukraine US is like the Pale again. It has a Jewish President and a Jewish Prime
Minister.
Ukraine and Poland were both controlled by Tartars too. Ukraine longer than Russia. Russia
ended the Tartar rule of Crimea in 1783. The Crimean Tartars lived off raiding Ukraine,
Poland, and parts of Russia for Slav slaves. Russia ended this Slav slave trade in 1783.
"... Just to remind you: the charge against Trump is that he tried to expose a massive rip off of the people of Ukraine, made practical thanks to the US replacing an elected President with a bunch of neo-nazis in uniforms, for political advantage. ..."
"... And that is to put aside the obvious point that nothing could be more advantageous to any Presidential candidate than to have to run against Joe Biden, supported by Hillary Clinton. ..."
"Will he be convicted in the Senate? Who cares so long as he slowly roasts in the court of
public opinion."
Do you not see how unlikely it is that a story which demonstrates the utter corruption,
personally, of Joe Biden and, institutionally, of the Obama regime will, as it unwinds, turn
the people against Trump?
Just to remind you: the charge against Trump is that he tried to expose a massive rip off
of the people of Ukraine, made practical thanks to the US replacing an elected President with
a bunch of neo-nazis in uniforms, for political advantage.
And that is to put aside the obvious point that nothing could be more advantageous to any
Presidential candidate than to have to run against Joe Biden, supported by Hillary
Clinton.
"... As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians. ..."
"... The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly acquired ones. ..."
"... Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor Cohen ascribes to the US. ..."
"... We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU, or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay. ..."
"... Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an individual example with AP, but they all seem like that. ..."
Thanks for your sharing you views about Prof Cohen, a most interesting and principled
man.
Only after reading the article did I realize that the UR (that's you) also provided the
Batchelor Show podcast. Thanks.
I've been listening to these broadcasts over their entirety, now going on for six or so
years. What's always struck me is Cohen's level-headeness and equanimity. I've also detected
affection for Kentucky, his native state. Not something to be expected from a Princeton / NYU
academic nor an Upper West Side resident.
And once again expressing appreciation for the UR!
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Comments
How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt
politics?
The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook
expansion..
NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA
resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the
target area.
Behind NATO lies the reason for Bexit, the Yellow Jackets, the unrest in Iraq and Egypt,
Yemen etc.
Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials.
Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to
follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of
the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to
mind.
I think [private use of public force for private gain] is what Trump meant when Trump said
to impeach Trump for investigating the Ukraine matter amounts to Treason.. but it is the
exactly the activity type that Hallmarks CIA instigated regime change.
A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can
be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other
plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion?
The key question is what is the gain in separating Ukraine from Russia, adding it to NATO,
and turning Russia and Ukraine into enemies. And what are the most likely results, e.g. can
it ever work without risking a catastrophic event?
There are the usual empire-building and weapons business reasons, but those should
function within a rational framework. As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the
Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would
be otherwise for most Ukrainians. And an increase in tensions in the region with
inevitable impact on the business there. So what exactly is the gain and for whom?
The Washington-led attempt to fast-track Ukraine into NATO in 2013–14 resulted in
the Maidan crisis, the overthrow of the country's constitutionally elected president Viktor
Yanukovych, and to the still ongoing proxy civil war in Donbass.
Which exemplifies the stupidity and arrogance of the American
military/industrial/political Establishment -- none of that had anything to do with US
national security (least of all antagonizing Russia) -- how fucking hypocritical is it to
presume the Monroe Doctrine, and then try to get the Ukraine into NATO? -- none of it would
have been of any benefit whatsoever to the average American.
According to a recent govt study, only 12% of Americans can read above a 9th grade level.
This effectively mean (((whoever))) controls the MSM controls the world. NOTHING will change
for the better while the (((enemy))) owns our money supply.
There was NO "annexation" of Crimea by Russia. Crimea WAS annexed, but by Ukraine.
Russia and Crimea re-unified. Crimea has been part of Russia for long than America has
existed – since it was taken from the Ottoman Empire over 350 yrs ago. The vast
majority of the people identify as Russian, and speak only Russian.
To annex, the verb, means to use armed force to seize sovereign territory and put it under
the control of the invading forces government. Pretty much as the early Americans did to
Northern Mexico, Hawaii, etc. Russia used no force, the Governors of Crimea applied for
re-unification with Russia, Russia advised a referendum, which was held, and with a 96%
turnout, 97% voted for re-unification. This was done formally and legally, conforming with
all the international mandates.
It is very damaging for anyone to say that Russia "annexed" Crimea, because when people
read, quickly moving past the world, they subliminally match the word to their held
perception of the concept and move on. Thus they match the word "annex" to their conception
of the use of Armed Force against a resistant population, without checking.
All Cohen is doing here is reinforcing the pushed, lying Empire narrative, that Russia
invaded and used force, when the exact opposite is true!!
@Carlton
Meyer One wonders if Mr. Putin, as he puts his head on the pillow at night, fancies that
he should have rolled the Russian tanks into Kiev, right after the 2014 US-financed coup of
Ukraine's elected president, which was accomplished while he was pre-occupied with the Sochi
Olympics, and been done with it. He had every justification to do so, but perhaps feared
Western blowback. Well, the blowback happened anyway, so maybe Putin was too cautious.
The new Trump Admin threw him under the bus when it installed the idiot Nikki Haley as UN
Ambassador, whose first words were that Russia must give Crimea back. With its only major
warm water port located at Sevastopol, that wasn't about to happen, and the US Deep State
knew it.
Given how he has been so unfairly treated by the media, and never given a chance to enact
his Russian agenda, anyone who thinks that Trump was 'selected' by the deep state has rocks
for brains. The other night, on Rick Sanchez's RT America show, former US diplomat, and
frequent guest Jim Jatras said that he would not be too surprised if 20 GOP Senators flipped
and voted to convict Trump if the House votes to impeach.
The deep state can't abide four more years of the bombastic, Twitter-obsessed Trump, hence
this Special Ops Ukraine false flag, designed to fool a majority of the people. The smooth
talking, more warlike Pence is one of them. The night of the long knives is approaching.
The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US
always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly
acquired ones.
The "logic" of the Dem party is remarkable. Dems don't even deny that Biden is corrupt,
that he blatantly abused the office of Vice-President for personal gain. What's more, he was
dumb enough to boast about it publicly. Therefore, let's impeach Trump.
These people don't give a hoot about the interests of the US as a country, or even as an
Empire. Their insatiable greed for money and power blinds them to everything. By rights,
those who orchestrated totally fake Russiagate and now push for impeachment, when Russiagate
flopped miserably, should be hanged on lampposts for high treason. Unfortunately, justice
won't be served. So, we have to be satisfied with an almost assured prospect of this
impeachment thing to flop, just like Russiagate before it. But in the process incalculable
damage will be done to our country and its institutions.
Those who support the separation of Kosovo from Serbia without Serbian consent cannot
argue against separation of Crimea from Ukraine without the consent of Kiev regime.
On the other hand, those who believe that post-WWII borders are sacrosanct have to
acknowledge that Crimea belongs to Russia (illegally even by loose Soviet standards
transferred to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956), Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union
should be restored, and Germany should be re-divided.
At least now I know why Ukraine is so essential to American national security. It's so even
more of my and my families' taxes can pay for a massive expansion of Nato, which means
American military bases in Ukraine. Greenland to the borders of China.
We're encircling the earth, like those old cartoons about bankers.
@Ron
Unz I had to stop listening after the 10th min. where the good professor (without any
push-back from the interviewer) says:
Victor Yanukovich was overthrown by a street coup . at that moment, the United States
and not only the United States but the Western European Governments had to make a decision
would they acknowledge the overthrow of Yannukovic as having been legitimate, and therefore
accept whatever government emerged, and that was a fateful moment within 24hours, the
governments, including the government of president Obama endorsed what was essentially a
coup d'etat against Yanukovich.
Has the good Professor so quickly forgotten about Victoria Nuland distributing cookies
with John McCain in the Maidan as the coup was still unfolding? Her claim at the think tank
in DC where she discusses having spent $30million (if I remember correctly) for foisting the
Ukraine coup ?
Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next
president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week
later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor
Cohen ascribes to the US.
These are not simple omissions but willful acts of misleading of fools. The good
professor's little discussed career as a resource for the secret services has reemerged after
seemingly having been left out in the cold during the 1st attempted coup against Trump.
No, the real story is more than just a little NATO expansion as the professor does
suggest, but more directly, the attempted coup that the US is still trying to stage in Russia
itself, in order to regain control of Russia's vast energy resources which Putin forced the
oligarchs to disgorge. The US desperately wants to achieve this in order to be able to
ultimately also control China's access to those resources as well.
In the way that Iraq was supposed to be a staging post for an attack on Iran, Ukraine is
the staging post for an attack on Russia.
The great Russian expert stirred miles very clear of even hinting at such scenarios, even
though anyone who's thought about US world policies will easily arrive at this logical
conclusion.
What about the theft of Ukraine's farmland and the enserfing of its rural population? Isn't
this theft and enserfing of Ukrainians at least one major reason the US government got
involved, overseeing the transfer of this land into the hands of the transnational banking
crime syndicate? The Ukraine, with its rich, black soil, used to be called the breadbasket of
Europe.
Consider the fanatical intervention on the part of Victoria Nuland and the Kagans under
the guise of working for the State Dept to facilitate the theft. In a similar fashion,
according to Wayne Madsen, the State Dept. has a Dept of Foreign Asset Management, or some
similar name, that exists to protect the Chabad stranglehold on the world diamond trade, and,
according to Madsen, the language spoken and posters around the offices are in Hebrew, which
as a practical matter might as well be the case at the State Dept itself.
According to an article a few years ago at Oakland Institute, George Rohr's NCH Capital,
which latter organization has funded over 100 Chabad Houses on US campuses, owns over 1
million acres of Ukraine farmland. Other ownership interests of similarly vast tracts of
Ukraine farmland show a similar pattern of predation. At one point, it was suggested that the
Yinon Plan should be understood to include the Ukraine as the newly acquired breadbasket of
Eretz Israel. It may also be worth pointing out that now kosher Ivy League schools'
endowments are among the worst pillagers of native farmland and enserfers of the indigenous
populations they claim to protect.
@Mikhail
Well, if we really go into it, things become complicated. What Khmelnitsky united with Russia
was maybe 1/6th or 1/8th of current Ukraine. Huge (4-5 times greater) areas in the North and
West were added by Russian Tsars, almost as great areas in the South and East taken by Tsars
from Turkey and affiliated Crimean Khanate were added by Lenin, a big chunk in the West was
added by Stalin, and then in 1956 moron Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea (which he had no right to
do even by Soviet law). So, about 4/6th of "Ukraine" is Southern Russia, 1/6th is Eastern
Poland, some chunks are Hungary and Romania, and the remaining little stub is Ukraine proper.
@anon
American view always was: "yes, he is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". That
historically applied to many obnoxious regimes, now fully applies to Ukraine. In that Dems
and Reps always were essentially identical, revealing that they are two different puppets run
by the same puppet master.
Trump is hardly very intelligent, but he has some street smarts that degenerate elites
have lost. Hence their hatred of him. It is particularly galling for the elites that Trump
won in 2016, and has every chance of winning again in 2020 (unless they decide to murder him,
like JFK; but that would be a real giveaway, even the dumbest sheeple would smell the
rat).
@follyofwar
The only reason I can imagine that Putin/Russia would want to "take over" Ukraine and have
this political problem child back in the family might be because of Ukraine's black soil.
But it is probably not worth the aggravation.
Russia is building up its agricultural sector via major greenhouse installations and other
innovations.
@AP
Well, you are a true simpleton who repeats shallow conventional views. You don't ever seem to
think deeper about what you write, e.g. if Yanukovitch could beat anyone in a 1-on-1 election
than he obviously wasn't that unpopular and that makes Maidan illegal by any standard. You
say he could beat Tiahnybok, who was one of the leaders of Maidan, how was then Maidan
democratic? Or you don't care for democracy if people vote against your preferences?
Trade with Russia is way down and it is not coming back. That is my point – there
was definitely a way to do this better. It wasn't a choice of 'one or the other' –
actually EU was under the impression that Ukraine would help open up the Russian market. Your
either-or wasn't the plan, so did Kiev lie to EU? No wonder Ukraine has a snowball chance in
hell of joining EU.
@Skeptikal
Russia moved to the first place in the world in wheat exports, while greatly increasing its
production of meat, fowl, and fish. Those who supplied these commodities lost Russian market
for good. In fact, with sanctions, food in Russia got a lot better, and food in Moscow got
immeasurably better: now it's local staff instead of crap shipped from half-a-world away.
Funny thing is, Russian production of really good fancy cheeses has soared (partially with
the help of French and Italian producers who moved in to avoid any stupid sanctions).
So, there is no reason for Russia to take Ukraine on any conditions, especially
considering Ukraine's exorbitant external debt. If one calculates European demand for
transplantation kidneys and prostitutes, two of the most successful Ukrainian exports,
Ukraine will pay off its debt – never. Besides, the majority of Russians learned to
despise Ukraine due to its subservient vassalage to the US (confirmed yet again by the
transcript of the conversation between Trump and Ze), so the emotional factor is also
virtually gone. Now the EU and the US face the standard rule of retail: you broke it, you own
it. That infuriates Americans and EU bureaucrats more than anything.
@Sergey
Krieger "Demography statistic won't support fairy tales by solzhenicin and his kind."
-- What's your point? Your post reads like an attempt at saying that Kaganovitch was white
like snow and that it does not matter what crimes were committed in the Soviet Union because
of the "demography statistic" and because you, Sergey Krieger, are a grander person next to
Solzhenitsyn and "his kind." By the way, had not A. I. S. returned to Russia, away from the
coziness of western life?
S.K.: "You should start research onto mass dying of population after 1991 and subsequent
and ongoing demographic catastroph in Russia under current not as "brutal " as soviet
regime."
@AP
Maidan was an illegal coup that violated Ukrainian constitution (I should say all of them,
there were too many) and lots of other laws. And that's not the worst part of it. But it
already happened, there is no going back for Ukraine. It's a "yes or no" thing, you can't be
a little bit pregnant. We can either commiserate with Ukraine or gloat, but it committed
suicide. Some say this project was doomed from the start. I think Ukraine had a chance and
blew it.
@AnonFromTN
I usually refrain from labelling off-cycle changes in government as revolutions or coups
– it clearly depends on one's views and can't be determined.
In general, when violence or military is involved, it is more likely it was a coup. If a
country has a reasonably open election process, violently overthrowing the current government
would also seem like a coup, since it is unnecessary. Ukraine had both violence and a coming
election that was democratic. If Yanukovitch would prevent or manipulate the elections, one
could make a case that at that point – after the election – the population could
stage a ' revolution '.
AP is a simpleton who repeats badly thought out slogans and desperately tries to save some
face for the Maidan fiasco – so we will not change his mind, his mind is done with
changes, it is all about avoiding regrets even if it means living in a lie. One can almost
feel sorry for him, if he wasn't so obnoxious.
Ukraine has destroyed its own future gradually after 1991, all the elites there failed,
Yanukovitch was just the last in a long line of failures, the guy before him (Yushenko?) left
office with a 5% approval. Why wasn't there a revolution against him? Maidan put a cherry on
that rotting cake – a desperate scream of pain by people who had lost all hope and so
blindly fell for cheap promises by the new-old hustlers.
We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU,
or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part
of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay.
Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete
disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an
individual example with AP, but they all seem like that.
@AP
You intentionally omitted the second part of what I wrote: 'a reasonably democratic
elections', neither 18th century American colonies, nor Russia in 1917 or Romania in 1989,
had them. Ukraine in 2014 did.
So all your belly-aching is for nothing. The talk about 'subverting' and doing a
preventive 'revolution' on Maidan to prevent 'subversion' has a very Stalinist ring to it. If
you start revolutionary violence because you claim to anticipate that something bad might
happen, well, the sky is the limit and you have no rules.
You are desperately trying to justify a stupid and unworkable act. As we watch the
unfolding disaster and millions leaving Ukraine, this "Maidan was great!!!" mantra will sound
even more silly. But enjoy it, it is not Somalia, wow, I guess as long as a country is not
Somalia it is ok. Ukraine is by far the poorest large country in Europe. How is that a
success?
@Beckow
True believers are called that because they willfully ignore facts and logic. AP is a true
believer Ukie. Ukie faith is their main undoing. Unfortunately, they are ruining the country
with their insane dreams. But that cannot be helped now. The position of a large fraction of
Ukrainian population is best described by a cruel American saying: fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, shame on me.
@AnonFromTN
You are right, it can't be helped. Another saying is that it takes two to lie: one who lies,
and one to lie to. The receiver of lies is also responsible.
What happened in Ukraine was: Nuland&Co. went to Ukraine and lied to them about '
EU, 'Marshall plan', aid, 'you will be Western ', etc,,,'. Maidanistas swallowed it
because they wanted to believe – it is easy to lie to desperate people. Making promises
is very easy. US soft power is all based on making promises.
What Nuland&Co. really wanted was to create a deep Ukraine-Russia hostility and to
grab Crimea, so they could get Russian Navy out and move Nato in. It didn't work very well,
all we have is useless hostility, and a dysfunctional state. But as long as they serve
espresso in Lviv, AP will scream that it was all worth it, 'no Somalia', it is 'all normal',
almost as good as 2013 . Right.
@AP
I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was different:
lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians
Without the unnecessary hostility and the break in business relations with Russia the
living standards in Ukraine would be higher. That, I think, noone would dispute. One can
trace that directly to the so-far failed attempt to get Ukraine into Nato and Russia out of
its Crimea bases. There has been a high cost for that policy, so it is appropriate to ask:
why? did the authors of that policy think it through?
@AP
I don't give a flying f k about Yanukovitch and your projections about what 'would be growth'
under him. He was history by 2014 in any case.
One simple point that you don't seem to grasp: it was Yanuk who negotiated the association
treaty with EU that inevitably meant Ukraine in Nato and Russia bases out of Crimea (after a
decent interval). For anyone to call Yanuk a 'pro-Russian' is idiotic – what we see
today are the results of Yanukovitch's policies. By the way, the first custom restrictions on
Ukraine's exports to Russia happened in summer 2013 under Y.
If you still think that Yanukovitch was in spite of all of that somehow a 'Russian
puppet', you must have a very low opinion of Kremlin skills in puppetry. He was not, he was
fully onboard with the EU-Nato-Crimea policy – he implemented it until he got
outflanked by even more radical forces on Maidan.
@Beckow
Well, exactly like all Ukrainian presidents before and after him, Yanuk was a thief. He might
have been a more intelligent and/or more cautious thief that Porky, but a thief he was.
Anyway, there is no point in crying over spilled milk: history has no subjunctive mood.
Ukraine has dug a hole for itself, and it still keeps digging, albeit slower, after a clown
in whole socks replaced a clown in socks with holes. By now this new clown is also a
murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although so far he has committed fewer crimes
than Porky.
There is no turning back. Regardless of Ukrainian policies, many things it used to sell
Russia won't be bought any more: Russia developed its own shipbuilding (subcontracted some to
South Korea), is making its own helicopter and ship engines, all stages of space rockets,
etc. Russia won't return any military or high-tech production to Ukraine, ever. What's more,
most Russians are now disgusted with Ukraine, which would impede improving relations even if
Ukraine gets a sane government (which is extremely unlikely in the next 5 years).
Ukraine's situation is best described by Russian black humor saying: "what we fought for
has befallen us". End of story.
@Peter
Akuleyev How many millions? It is same story. Ukraine claims more and more millions dead
from so called Hilodomor when in Russia liberals have been screaming about 100 million deaths
in russia from bolsheviks. Both are fairy tales. Now you better answer what is current
population of ukraine. The last soviet time 1992 level was 52 million. I doubt you got even
40 million now. Under soviet power both ukraine and russia population were steadily growing.
Now, under whose music you are dancing along with those in Russia that share your views when
die off very real one is going right under your nose.
By now this new clown is also a murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although
so far he has committed fewer crimes than Porky.
Have you noticed that the Republicans, while seeming to defend Trump, never challenge the
specious assertion that delaying arms to Ukraine was a threat to US security? At first I
thought this was oversight. Silly me. Keeping the New Cold War smoldering is more important
to those hawks.
Tulsi Gabbard flipping to support the impeachment enquiry was especially disappointing.
I'm guessing she was under lots of pressure, because she can't possibly believe that arming
the Ukies is good for our security. If I could get to one of her events, I'd ask her direct,
what's up with that. Obama didn't give them arms at all, even made some remarks about not
inflaming the situation. (A small token, after his people managed the coup, spent 8 years
demonizing Putin, and presided over origins of Russiagate to make Trump's [stated] goal of
better relations impossible.)
Not really. Ukies are wonnabe Nazis, but they fall way short of their ideal. The original
German Nazis were organized, capable, brave, sober, and mostly honest. Ukie scum is
disorganized, ham-handed, cowardly, drunk (or under drugs), and corrupt to the core. They are
heroes only against unarmed civilians, good only for theft, torture, and rape. When it comes
to the real fight with armed opponents, they run away under various pretexts or surrender.
Nazis should sue these impostors for defamation.
Yanukovych signed an internationally brokered power sharing agreement with his main
rivals, who then violated it. Yanukovych up to that point was the democratically elected
president of Ukraine.
Since his being violently overthrown, people have been unjustly jailed, beaten and killed
for politically motivated reasons having to do with a stated opposition to the
Euromaidan.
Yanukovych refrained from using from using considerably greater force, when compared to
others if put in the same situation, against a mob element that included property damage and
the deaths of law enforcement personnel.
In the technical legal sense, there was a legit basis to jail the likes of Tymoshenko. If
I correctly recall Yushchenko offered testimony against Tymoshenko. Rather laughable that
Poroshenko appointed the non-lawyer Lutsenko into a key legal position.
@Beckow
The undemocratic aspect involving Yanukovych's overthrow included the disproportionate number
of Svoboda members appointed to key cabinet positions. At the time, Svoboda was on record for
favoring the dissolution of Crimea's autonomous status
@AP
Grest comment #159 by Beckow. Really, I'm more concerned with the coup against POTUS that's
happening right now, since before he took office. The Ukraine is pivotal, from the Kiev
putschists collaborating with the DNC, to the CIA [pretend] whistleblowers who now subvert
Trump's investigation of those crimes.
Tragic and pitiful, the Ukrainians jumped from a rock to a hard place. Used and abandoned
by the Clinton-Soros gang, they appeal to the next abusive Sugar-Daddy. Isn't this FRANCE 24
report fairly objective?
Revisited: Five years on, what has Ukraine's Maidan Revolution achieved?
@AP
This from BBC is less current. (That magnificent bridge -the one the Ukies tried to sabotage-
is now in operation, of course.) I'm just trying to use sources that might not trigger you.
@AP
"Whenever people ask me how to figure out the truth about Ukraine, I always recommend they
watch the film Ukraine on Fire by director @lopatonok and executive produced by
@TheOliverStone. The sequel Revealing Ukraine will be out soon proud to be in it."
– Lee Sranahan (Follow @stranahan for Ukrainegate in depth.)
" .what has really changed in the life of Ukrainians?"
@Malacaay
Baltics, Ukrainians and Poles were part of the Polish Kingdom from 1025-1569 and the
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1764.
This probably explains their differences with Russia.
Russia had this area in the Russian Empire from 1764-1917. Russia called this area the
Pale of Settlement. Why? This Polish Kingdom since 1025 welcomed 25000 Jews in, who later
grew to millions by the 19th century. They are the Ashkenazis who are all over the world
these days. The name Pale was for Ashkenazis to stay in that area and not immigrate to the
rest of Russia.
The reasoning for this was not religious prejudice but the way the Ashkenazis treated the
peasants of the Pale. It was to protect the Russian peasants. This did not help after 1917. A
huge invasion of Ashkenazis descended all over Russia to take up positions all over the
Soviet Union.
Ukraine US is like the Pale again. It has a Jewish President and a Jewish Prime
Minister.
Ukraine and Poland were both controlled by Tartars too. Ukraine longer than Russia. Russia
ended the Tartar rule of Crimea in 1783. The Crimean Tartars lived off raiding Ukraine,
Poland, and parts of Russia for Slav slaves. Russia ended this Slav slave trade in 1783.
"... As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians. ..."
"... The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly acquired ones. ..."
"... Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor Cohen ascribes to the US. ..."
"... We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU, or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay. ..."
"... Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an individual example with AP, but they all seem like that. ..."
Thanks for your sharing you views about Prof Cohen, a most interesting and principled
man.
Only after reading the article did I realize that the UR (that's you) also provided the
Batchelor Show podcast. Thanks.
I've been listening to these broadcasts over their entirety, now going on for six or so
years. What's always struck me is Cohen's level-headeness and equanimity. I've also detected
affection for Kentucky, his native state. Not something to be expected from a Princeton / NYU
academic nor an Upper West Side resident.
And once again expressing appreciation for the UR!
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Comments
How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt
politics?
The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook
expansion..
NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA
resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the
target area.
Behind NATO lies the reason for Bexit, the Yellow Jackets, the unrest in Iraq and Egypt,
Yemen etc.
Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials.
Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to
follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of
the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to
mind.
I think [private use of public force for private gain] is what Trump meant when Trump said
to impeach Trump for investigating the Ukraine matter amounts to Treason.. but it is the
exactly the activity type that Hallmarks CIA instigated regime change.
A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can
be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other
plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion?
The key question is what is the gain in separating Ukraine from Russia, adding it to NATO,
and turning Russia and Ukraine into enemies. And what are the most likely results, e.g. can
it ever work without risking a catastrophic event?
There are the usual empire-building and weapons business reasons, but those should
function within a rational framework. As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the
Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would
be otherwise for most Ukrainians. And an increase in tensions in the region with
inevitable impact on the business there. So what exactly is the gain and for whom?
The Washington-led attempt to fast-track Ukraine into NATO in 2013–14 resulted in
the Maidan crisis, the overthrow of the country's constitutionally elected president Viktor
Yanukovych, and to the still ongoing proxy civil war in Donbass.
Which exemplifies the stupidity and arrogance of the American
military/industrial/political Establishment -- none of that had anything to do with US
national security (least of all antagonizing Russia) -- how fucking hypocritical is it to
presume the Monroe Doctrine, and then try to get the Ukraine into NATO? -- none of it would
have been of any benefit whatsoever to the average American.
According to a recent govt study, only 12% of Americans can read above a 9th grade level.
This effectively mean (((whoever))) controls the MSM controls the world. NOTHING will change
for the better while the (((enemy))) owns our money supply.
There was NO "annexation" of Crimea by Russia. Crimea WAS annexed, but by Ukraine.
Russia and Crimea re-unified. Crimea has been part of Russia for long than America has
existed – since it was taken from the Ottoman Empire over 350 yrs ago. The vast
majority of the people identify as Russian, and speak only Russian.
To annex, the verb, means to use armed force to seize sovereign territory and put it under
the control of the invading forces government. Pretty much as the early Americans did to
Northern Mexico, Hawaii, etc. Russia used no force, the Governors of Crimea applied for
re-unification with Russia, Russia advised a referendum, which was held, and with a 96%
turnout, 97% voted for re-unification. This was done formally and legally, conforming with
all the international mandates.
It is very damaging for anyone to say that Russia "annexed" Crimea, because when people
read, quickly moving past the world, they subliminally match the word to their held
perception of the concept and move on. Thus they match the word "annex" to their conception
of the use of Armed Force against a resistant population, without checking.
All Cohen is doing here is reinforcing the pushed, lying Empire narrative, that Russia
invaded and used force, when the exact opposite is true!!
@Carlton
Meyer One wonders if Mr. Putin, as he puts his head on the pillow at night, fancies that
he should have rolled the Russian tanks into Kiev, right after the 2014 US-financed coup of
Ukraine's elected president, which was accomplished while he was pre-occupied with the Sochi
Olympics, and been done with it. He had every justification to do so, but perhaps feared
Western blowback. Well, the blowback happened anyway, so maybe Putin was too cautious.
The new Trump Admin threw him under the bus when it installed the idiot Nikki Haley as UN
Ambassador, whose first words were that Russia must give Crimea back. With its only major
warm water port located at Sevastopol, that wasn't about to happen, and the US Deep State
knew it.
Given how he has been so unfairly treated by the media, and never given a chance to enact
his Russian agenda, anyone who thinks that Trump was 'selected' by the deep state has rocks
for brains. The other night, on Rick Sanchez's RT America show, former US diplomat, and
frequent guest Jim Jatras said that he would not be too surprised if 20 GOP Senators flipped
and voted to convict Trump if the House votes to impeach.
The deep state can't abide four more years of the bombastic, Twitter-obsessed Trump, hence
this Special Ops Ukraine false flag, designed to fool a majority of the people. The smooth
talking, more warlike Pence is one of them. The night of the long knives is approaching.
The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US
always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly
acquired ones.
The "logic" of the Dem party is remarkable. Dems don't even deny that Biden is corrupt,
that he blatantly abused the office of Vice-President for personal gain. What's more, he was
dumb enough to boast about it publicly. Therefore, let's impeach Trump.
These people don't give a hoot about the interests of the US as a country, or even as an
Empire. Their insatiable greed for money and power blinds them to everything. By rights,
those who orchestrated totally fake Russiagate and now push for impeachment, when Russiagate
flopped miserably, should be hanged on lampposts for high treason. Unfortunately, justice
won't be served. So, we have to be satisfied with an almost assured prospect of this
impeachment thing to flop, just like Russiagate before it. But in the process incalculable
damage will be done to our country and its institutions.
Those who support the separation of Kosovo from Serbia without Serbian consent cannot
argue against separation of Crimea from Ukraine without the consent of Kiev regime.
On the other hand, those who believe that post-WWII borders are sacrosanct have to
acknowledge that Crimea belongs to Russia (illegally even by loose Soviet standards
transferred to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956), Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union
should be restored, and Germany should be re-divided.
At least now I know why Ukraine is so essential to American national security. It's so even
more of my and my families' taxes can pay for a massive expansion of Nato, which means
American military bases in Ukraine. Greenland to the borders of China.
We're encircling the earth, like those old cartoons about bankers.
@Ron
Unz I had to stop listening after the 10th min. where the good professor (without any
push-back from the interviewer) says:
Victor Yanukovich was overthrown by a street coup . at that moment, the United States
and not only the United States but the Western European Governments had to make a decision
would they acknowledge the overthrow of Yannukovic as having been legitimate, and therefore
accept whatever government emerged, and that was a fateful moment within 24hours, the
governments, including the government of president Obama endorsed what was essentially a
coup d'etat against Yanukovich.
Has the good Professor so quickly forgotten about Victoria Nuland distributing cookies
with John McCain in the Maidan as the coup was still unfolding? Her claim at the think tank
in DC where she discusses having spent $30million (if I remember correctly) for foisting the
Ukraine coup ?
Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next
president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week
later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor
Cohen ascribes to the US.
These are not simple omissions but willful acts of misleading of fools. The good
professor's little discussed career as a resource for the secret services has reemerged after
seemingly having been left out in the cold during the 1st attempted coup against Trump.
No, the real story is more than just a little NATO expansion as the professor does
suggest, but more directly, the attempted coup that the US is still trying to stage in Russia
itself, in order to regain control of Russia's vast energy resources which Putin forced the
oligarchs to disgorge. The US desperately wants to achieve this in order to be able to
ultimately also control China's access to those resources as well.
In the way that Iraq was supposed to be a staging post for an attack on Iran, Ukraine is
the staging post for an attack on Russia.
The great Russian expert stirred miles very clear of even hinting at such scenarios, even
though anyone who's thought about US world policies will easily arrive at this logical
conclusion.
What about the theft of Ukraine's farmland and the enserfing of its rural population? Isn't
this theft and enserfing of Ukrainians at least one major reason the US government got
involved, overseeing the transfer of this land into the hands of the transnational banking
crime syndicate? The Ukraine, with its rich, black soil, used to be called the breadbasket of
Europe.
Consider the fanatical intervention on the part of Victoria Nuland and the Kagans under
the guise of working for the State Dept to facilitate the theft. In a similar fashion,
according to Wayne Madsen, the State Dept. has a Dept of Foreign Asset Management, or some
similar name, that exists to protect the Chabad stranglehold on the world diamond trade, and,
according to Madsen, the language spoken and posters around the offices are in Hebrew, which
as a practical matter might as well be the case at the State Dept itself.
According to an article a few years ago at Oakland Institute, George Rohr's NCH Capital,
which latter organization has funded over 100 Chabad Houses on US campuses, owns over 1
million acres of Ukraine farmland. Other ownership interests of similarly vast tracts of
Ukraine farmland show a similar pattern of predation. At one point, it was suggested that the
Yinon Plan should be understood to include the Ukraine as the newly acquired breadbasket of
Eretz Israel. It may also be worth pointing out that now kosher Ivy League schools'
endowments are among the worst pillagers of native farmland and enserfers of the indigenous
populations they claim to protect.
@Mikhail
Well, if we really go into it, things become complicated. What Khmelnitsky united with Russia
was maybe 1/6th or 1/8th of current Ukraine. Huge (4-5 times greater) areas in the North and
West were added by Russian Tsars, almost as great areas in the South and East taken by Tsars
from Turkey and affiliated Crimean Khanate were added by Lenin, a big chunk in the West was
added by Stalin, and then in 1956 moron Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea (which he had no right to
do even by Soviet law). So, about 4/6th of "Ukraine" is Southern Russia, 1/6th is Eastern
Poland, some chunks are Hungary and Romania, and the remaining little stub is Ukraine proper.
@anon
American view always was: "yes, he is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". That
historically applied to many obnoxious regimes, now fully applies to Ukraine. In that Dems
and Reps always were essentially identical, revealing that they are two different puppets run
by the same puppet master.
Trump is hardly very intelligent, but he has some street smarts that degenerate elites
have lost. Hence their hatred of him. It is particularly galling for the elites that Trump
won in 2016, and has every chance of winning again in 2020 (unless they decide to murder him,
like JFK; but that would be a real giveaway, even the dumbest sheeple would smell the
rat).
@follyofwar
The only reason I can imagine that Putin/Russia would want to "take over" Ukraine and have
this political problem child back in the family might be because of Ukraine's black soil.
But it is probably not worth the aggravation.
Russia is building up its agricultural sector via major greenhouse installations and other
innovations.
@AP
Well, you are a true simpleton who repeats shallow conventional views. You don't ever seem to
think deeper about what you write, e.g. if Yanukovitch could beat anyone in a 1-on-1 election
than he obviously wasn't that unpopular and that makes Maidan illegal by any standard. You
say he could beat Tiahnybok, who was one of the leaders of Maidan, how was then Maidan
democratic? Or you don't care for democracy if people vote against your preferences?
Trade with Russia is way down and it is not coming back. That is my point – there
was definitely a way to do this better. It wasn't a choice of 'one or the other' –
actually EU was under the impression that Ukraine would help open up the Russian market. Your
either-or wasn't the plan, so did Kiev lie to EU? No wonder Ukraine has a snowball chance in
hell of joining EU.
@Skeptikal
Russia moved to the first place in the world in wheat exports, while greatly increasing its
production of meat, fowl, and fish. Those who supplied these commodities lost Russian market
for good. In fact, with sanctions, food in Russia got a lot better, and food in Moscow got
immeasurably better: now it's local staff instead of crap shipped from half-a-world away.
Funny thing is, Russian production of really good fancy cheeses has soared (partially with
the help of French and Italian producers who moved in to avoid any stupid sanctions).
So, there is no reason for Russia to take Ukraine on any conditions, especially
considering Ukraine's exorbitant external debt. If one calculates European demand for
transplantation kidneys and prostitutes, two of the most successful Ukrainian exports,
Ukraine will pay off its debt – never. Besides, the majority of Russians learned to
despise Ukraine due to its subservient vassalage to the US (confirmed yet again by the
transcript of the conversation between Trump and Ze), so the emotional factor is also
virtually gone. Now the EU and the US face the standard rule of retail: you broke it, you own
it. That infuriates Americans and EU bureaucrats more than anything.
@Sergey
Krieger "Demography statistic won't support fairy tales by solzhenicin and his kind."
-- What's your point? Your post reads like an attempt at saying that Kaganovitch was white
like snow and that it does not matter what crimes were committed in the Soviet Union because
of the "demography statistic" and because you, Sergey Krieger, are a grander person next to
Solzhenitsyn and "his kind." By the way, had not A. I. S. returned to Russia, away from the
coziness of western life?
S.K.: "You should start research onto mass dying of population after 1991 and subsequent
and ongoing demographic catastroph in Russia under current not as "brutal " as soviet
regime."
@AP
Maidan was an illegal coup that violated Ukrainian constitution (I should say all of them,
there were too many) and lots of other laws. And that's not the worst part of it. But it
already happened, there is no going back for Ukraine. It's a "yes or no" thing, you can't be
a little bit pregnant. We can either commiserate with Ukraine or gloat, but it committed
suicide. Some say this project was doomed from the start. I think Ukraine had a chance and
blew it.
@AnonFromTN
I usually refrain from labelling off-cycle changes in government as revolutions or coups
– it clearly depends on one's views and can't be determined.
In general, when violence or military is involved, it is more likely it was a coup. If a
country has a reasonably open election process, violently overthrowing the current government
would also seem like a coup, since it is unnecessary. Ukraine had both violence and a coming
election that was democratic. If Yanukovitch would prevent or manipulate the elections, one
could make a case that at that point – after the election – the population could
stage a ' revolution '.
AP is a simpleton who repeats badly thought out slogans and desperately tries to save some
face for the Maidan fiasco – so we will not change his mind, his mind is done with
changes, it is all about avoiding regrets even if it means living in a lie. One can almost
feel sorry for him, if he wasn't so obnoxious.
Ukraine has destroyed its own future gradually after 1991, all the elites there failed,
Yanukovitch was just the last in a long line of failures, the guy before him (Yushenko?) left
office with a 5% approval. Why wasn't there a revolution against him? Maidan put a cherry on
that rotting cake – a desperate scream of pain by people who had lost all hope and so
blindly fell for cheap promises by the new-old hustlers.
We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU,
or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part
of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay.
Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete
disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an
individual example with AP, but they all seem like that.
@AP
You intentionally omitted the second part of what I wrote: 'a reasonably democratic
elections', neither 18th century American colonies, nor Russia in 1917 or Romania in 1989,
had them. Ukraine in 2014 did.
So all your belly-aching is for nothing. The talk about 'subverting' and doing a
preventive 'revolution' on Maidan to prevent 'subversion' has a very Stalinist ring to it. If
you start revolutionary violence because you claim to anticipate that something bad might
happen, well, the sky is the limit and you have no rules.
You are desperately trying to justify a stupid and unworkable act. As we watch the
unfolding disaster and millions leaving Ukraine, this "Maidan was great!!!" mantra will sound
even more silly. But enjoy it, it is not Somalia, wow, I guess as long as a country is not
Somalia it is ok. Ukraine is by far the poorest large country in Europe. How is that a
success?
@Beckow
True believers are called that because they willfully ignore facts and logic. AP is a true
believer Ukie. Ukie faith is their main undoing. Unfortunately, they are ruining the country
with their insane dreams. But that cannot be helped now. The position of a large fraction of
Ukrainian population is best described by a cruel American saying: fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, shame on me.
@AnonFromTN
You are right, it can't be helped. Another saying is that it takes two to lie: one who lies,
and one to lie to. The receiver of lies is also responsible.
What happened in Ukraine was: Nuland&Co. went to Ukraine and lied to them about '
EU, 'Marshall plan', aid, 'you will be Western ', etc,,,'. Maidanistas swallowed it
because they wanted to believe – it is easy to lie to desperate people. Making promises
is very easy. US soft power is all based on making promises.
What Nuland&Co. really wanted was to create a deep Ukraine-Russia hostility and to
grab Crimea, so they could get Russian Navy out and move Nato in. It didn't work very well,
all we have is useless hostility, and a dysfunctional state. But as long as they serve
espresso in Lviv, AP will scream that it was all worth it, 'no Somalia', it is 'all normal',
almost as good as 2013 . Right.
@AP
I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was different:
lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians
Without the unnecessary hostility and the break in business relations with Russia the
living standards in Ukraine would be higher. That, I think, noone would dispute. One can
trace that directly to the so-far failed attempt to get Ukraine into Nato and Russia out of
its Crimea bases. There has been a high cost for that policy, so it is appropriate to ask:
why? did the authors of that policy think it through?
@AP
I don't give a flying f k about Yanukovitch and your projections about what 'would be growth'
under him. He was history by 2014 in any case.
One simple point that you don't seem to grasp: it was Yanuk who negotiated the association
treaty with EU that inevitably meant Ukraine in Nato and Russia bases out of Crimea (after a
decent interval). For anyone to call Yanuk a 'pro-Russian' is idiotic – what we see
today are the results of Yanukovitch's policies. By the way, the first custom restrictions on
Ukraine's exports to Russia happened in summer 2013 under Y.
If you still think that Yanukovitch was in spite of all of that somehow a 'Russian
puppet', you must have a very low opinion of Kremlin skills in puppetry. He was not, he was
fully onboard with the EU-Nato-Crimea policy – he implemented it until he got
outflanked by even more radical forces on Maidan.
@Beckow
Well, exactly like all Ukrainian presidents before and after him, Yanuk was a thief. He might
have been a more intelligent and/or more cautious thief that Porky, but a thief he was.
Anyway, there is no point in crying over spilled milk: history has no subjunctive mood.
Ukraine has dug a hole for itself, and it still keeps digging, albeit slower, after a clown
in whole socks replaced a clown in socks with holes. By now this new clown is also a
murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although so far he has committed fewer crimes
than Porky.
There is no turning back. Regardless of Ukrainian policies, many things it used to sell
Russia won't be bought any more: Russia developed its own shipbuilding (subcontracted some to
South Korea), is making its own helicopter and ship engines, all stages of space rockets,
etc. Russia won't return any military or high-tech production to Ukraine, ever. What's more,
most Russians are now disgusted with Ukraine, which would impede improving relations even if
Ukraine gets a sane government (which is extremely unlikely in the next 5 years).
Ukraine's situation is best described by Russian black humor saying: "what we fought for
has befallen us". End of story.
@Peter
Akuleyev How many millions? It is same story. Ukraine claims more and more millions dead
from so called Hilodomor when in Russia liberals have been screaming about 100 million deaths
in russia from bolsheviks. Both are fairy tales. Now you better answer what is current
population of ukraine. The last soviet time 1992 level was 52 million. I doubt you got even
40 million now. Under soviet power both ukraine and russia population were steadily growing.
Now, under whose music you are dancing along with those in Russia that share your views when
die off very real one is going right under your nose.
By now this new clown is also a murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although
so far he has committed fewer crimes than Porky.
Have you noticed that the Republicans, while seeming to defend Trump, never challenge the
specious assertion that delaying arms to Ukraine was a threat to US security? At first I
thought this was oversight. Silly me. Keeping the New Cold War smoldering is more important
to those hawks.
Tulsi Gabbard flipping to support the impeachment enquiry was especially disappointing.
I'm guessing she was under lots of pressure, because she can't possibly believe that arming
the Ukies is good for our security. If I could get to one of her events, I'd ask her direct,
what's up with that. Obama didn't give them arms at all, even made some remarks about not
inflaming the situation. (A small token, after his people managed the coup, spent 8 years
demonizing Putin, and presided over origins of Russiagate to make Trump's [stated] goal of
better relations impossible.)
Not really. Ukies are wonnabe Nazis, but they fall way short of their ideal. The original
German Nazis were organized, capable, brave, sober, and mostly honest. Ukie scum is
disorganized, ham-handed, cowardly, drunk (or under drugs), and corrupt to the core. They are
heroes only against unarmed civilians, good only for theft, torture, and rape. When it comes
to the real fight with armed opponents, they run away under various pretexts or surrender.
Nazis should sue these impostors for defamation.
Yanukovych signed an internationally brokered power sharing agreement with his main
rivals, who then violated it. Yanukovych up to that point was the democratically elected
president of Ukraine.
Since his being violently overthrown, people have been unjustly jailed, beaten and killed
for politically motivated reasons having to do with a stated opposition to the
Euromaidan.
Yanukovych refrained from using from using considerably greater force, when compared to
others if put in the same situation, against a mob element that included property damage and
the deaths of law enforcement personnel.
In the technical legal sense, there was a legit basis to jail the likes of Tymoshenko. If
I correctly recall Yushchenko offered testimony against Tymoshenko. Rather laughable that
Poroshenko appointed the non-lawyer Lutsenko into a key legal position.
@Beckow
The undemocratic aspect involving Yanukovych's overthrow included the disproportionate number
of Svoboda members appointed to key cabinet positions. At the time, Svoboda was on record for
favoring the dissolution of Crimea's autonomous status
@AP
Grest comment #159 by Beckow. Really, I'm more concerned with the coup against POTUS that's
happening right now, since before he took office. The Ukraine is pivotal, from the Kiev
putschists collaborating with the DNC, to the CIA [pretend] whistleblowers who now subvert
Trump's investigation of those crimes.
Tragic and pitiful, the Ukrainians jumped from a rock to a hard place. Used and abandoned
by the Clinton-Soros gang, they appeal to the next abusive Sugar-Daddy. Isn't this FRANCE 24
report fairly objective?
Revisited: Five years on, what has Ukraine's Maidan Revolution achieved?
@AP
This from BBC is less current. (That magnificent bridge -the one the Ukies tried to sabotage-
is now in operation, of course.) I'm just trying to use sources that might not trigger you.
@AP
"Whenever people ask me how to figure out the truth about Ukraine, I always recommend they
watch the film Ukraine on Fire by director @lopatonok and executive produced by
@TheOliverStone. The sequel Revealing Ukraine will be out soon proud to be in it."
– Lee Sranahan (Follow @stranahan for Ukrainegate in depth.)
" .what has really changed in the life of Ukrainians?"
@Malacaay
Baltics, Ukrainians and Poles were part of the Polish Kingdom from 1025-1569 and the
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1764.
This probably explains their differences with Russia.
Russia had this area in the Russian Empire from 1764-1917. Russia called this area the
Pale of Settlement. Why? This Polish Kingdom since 1025 welcomed 25000 Jews in, who later
grew to millions by the 19th century. They are the Ashkenazis who are all over the world
these days. The name Pale was for Ashkenazis to stay in that area and not immigrate to the
rest of Russia.
The reasoning for this was not religious prejudice but the way the Ashkenazis treated the
peasants of the Pale. It was to protect the Russian peasants. This did not help after 1917. A
huge invasion of Ashkenazis descended all over Russia to take up positions all over the
Soviet Union.
Ukraine US is like the Pale again. It has a Jewish President and a Jewish Prime
Minister.
Ukraine and Poland were both controlled by Tartars too. Ukraine longer than Russia. Russia
ended the Tartar rule of Crimea in 1783. The Crimean Tartars lived off raiding Ukraine,
Poland, and parts of Russia for Slav slaves. Russia ended this Slav slave trade in 1783.
Precious! After all those years Ukraine tried to force Gazprom to prolong transportation
contracts, including in western Courts, now it is EUROCOMMISSION that plays their 3rd Energy
Package card, but how!
After Zelensky so daringly kissed up to Trump and talk dirt about Merkel and Macron
– EC says the prolongation of Gazprom-NaftaGaz contract is "not legally possible" and
that Ukraine has to kill and "unbundle" NaftaGaz, and when they done – only then the
new pipes-only company would be free to try negotiate a new unrelated contract for gas
transportation.
The Holy Grail of Ukrainian foreign economics is dead, backstabbed by EU.
What a fine present to President Ze :-DDDD
"... Two weeks later, the Financial Times did a story about Ukraine's takedown of Manafort, including quotes from Leshchenko and Western analysts. "The prospect of Mr Trump, who has praised Ukraine's arch-enemy Vladimir Putin, becoming leader of the country's biggest ally," it began, "has spurred not just Mr Leshchenko but Kiev's wider political leadership to do something they would never have attempted before: intervene, however indirectly, in a US election." ..."
"... Reading the article in 2019, after three years of nonstop coverage about overseas meddling in US democracy, is stunning. Here is an established Western outlet calmly discussing successful foreign influence of an American presidential campaign as a neat little coup, a bit of gutsy international derring-do. ..."
"... "My desire to expose Manafort's doings was motivated by the desire for justice," wrote Leschenko in a recent Washington Post op-ed. "Neither Hillary Clinton nor Joe Biden, nor John Podesta, nor George Soros asked me to publish the information from the black ledger." ..."
Vulnerabilities in US election security need attention, and Ukraine's 2016 impact could
be instructive.
... ... ...
Ukraine's role in the 2016 race is undeniable: In the summer of 2016, Kiev's release of the
so-called "black ledger" resulted in Manafort's ouster from the Trump campaign. The actions of
foreign actors -- however well-intentioned -- directly impacted an American election.
One would imagine Washington media and lawmakers -- who spent three years combing through
every aspect of Moscow's interference in our election -- might direct similar attention to
Kiev's impact. Yet the Ukrainian angle barely made headlines.
If we want to get serious about safeguarding our electoral process from all foreign actors,
not just Moscow-based ones, it's time to examine Ukraine as well.
On August 14, 2016, The New York Times published a bombshell
about what would become known as the "black ledger" -- a handwritten document alleging millions
of off-the-books payments to Manafort by the Party of Regions, led by his former client Viktor
Yanukovych, the ousted pro-Russian president of Ukraine. The Times received the ledger
from the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), an independent government
agency.
The story rocked the 2016 election, given Manafort's position as head of Trump's campaign.
The Hillary Clinton campaign immediately seized on it as proof that Manafort -- and therefore
Trump -- was tied to Yanukovych and the Kremlin.
Four days later, the Times ran a
follow-up story, based on more details released by NABU and publicity by Serhei Leshchenko,
a member of the Ukrainian parliament, who told the Times he'd studied the ledger. The
next day, Manafort resigned from Trump's campaign.
Two weeks later, the Financial Times did a story about Ukraine's
takedown of Manafort, including quotes from Leshchenko and Western analysts. "The prospect of
Mr Trump, who has praised Ukraine's arch-enemy Vladimir Putin, becoming leader of the country's
biggest ally," it began, "has spurred not just Mr Leshchenko but Kiev's wider political
leadership to do something they would never have attempted before: intervene, however
indirectly, in a US election."
"Mr Leshchenko and other political actors in Kiev say they will continue their efforts to
prevent a candidate from reaching the summit of American political power," the story went
on.
Reading the article in 2019, after three years of nonstop coverage about overseas meddling
in US democracy, is stunning. Here is an established Western outlet calmly discussing
successful foreign influence of an American presidential campaign as a neat little coup, a bit
of gutsy international derring-do.
Calling the intervention "indirect" is a bit generous, as well. Manafort was ousted based on
handwritten pieces of paper -- the story would've never gone anywhere without NABU and
Leshchenko's vouching for the ledger's authenticity. That's as direct as it gets.
Of course, all this occurred in August of 2016, when the prospect of a Trump presidency was
seen as inconceivable. After Trump's election,
Leshchenko and
NABU frantically denied their intent to damage the Trump campaign, claiming the ledger was
publicized solely because of their concern to stamp out corruption and had nothing to do with
US politics.
"My desire to expose Manafort's doings was motivated by the desire for justice,"
wrote Leschenko in a recent Washington Post op-ed. "Neither Hillary Clinton nor Joe
Biden, nor John Podesta, nor George Soros asked me to publish the information from the black
ledger."
Ukrainians certainly had every reason to expose Manafort's corruption, and the man's
subsequent trial showed there was an enormous amount to expose. But Ukraine's efforts also
happened to coincide with -- and have an immediate impact on -- an American campaign. And yet,
despite this information's being available in English, and published by established Western
media, we've had almost no debate about its implications.
To understand just how astounding that is, simply imagine if the situation were reversed.
Imagine the Financial Times ran a story about a Russian government bureau and lawmaker
leaking documents that directly resulted in the ouster of the Clinton campaign manager. Even if
everything exposed by Russia were true, it'd still be a major scandal.
None of this is to say we should ignore the Kremlin's election meddling or Trump's current
attempt to coerce Ukraine into investigating Biden. These are extraordinarily serious issues --
but so is Ukraine's impact in 2016.
It seems many Americans are under the mistaken assumption that the moment Trump leaves
office, things will return to normal. They won't. If anything, the 2016 election let the devil
out of the box -- other actors in other nations surely took notice of the ease with which a
handful of individuals in Ukraine were able to influence an American campaign. There will be
more of this. Some may be in good faith; some will not.
It is impossible to say we're taking foreign interference seriously until the media,
lawmakers, and political activists have an honest conversation about the new norms. And that
involves looking not only at Trump and Russia, but at Ukraine as well.
Lev Golinkin is the
author of A Backpack, a Bear, and Eight Crates of Vodka , Amazon's Debut of the Month
and a Barnes & Noble's Discover Great New Writers program selection. Golinkin, a graduate
of Boston College, came to the United States as a child refugee from the eastern Ukrainian city
of Kharkov (now called Kharkiv) in 1990. His op-eds and essays on the Ukraine crisis have
appeared in The New York Times , the Los Angeles Times , The Boston Globe
, and Time.com , among others.
If this not of the Biden run, I do not know what can be. He now has an albatross abound his neck in the form of interference
in Ukrainian criminal investigation to save his corrupt to the core narcoaddict son. Only the raw power of neoliberal MSM
to suppress any information that does not fit their agenda is keeping him in the race.
But a more important fact that he was criminally involved in EuroMaydan (at the cost to the USA taxpayers around five billions) is swiped under the carpet. And will never be discussed
along with criminality of Obama and Nuland.
As somebody put it "with considerable forethought [neoliberal MSM] are attempting to create a nation of morons who will
faithfully go out and buy this or that product, vote for this or that candidate and faithfully work for their employers for as low a
wage as possible."
For days we've been treated to MSM insinuations that President Trump may have betrayed the United States after a whistleblower
lodged an 'urgent' complaint about something Trump promised another world leader - the details of which the White House has refused
to share.
Here's the scandal; It appears that Trump, may have made promises to newly minted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky - very
likely involving an effort to convince Ukraine to reopen its investigation into Joe Biden and his son Hunter, after Biden strongarmed
Ukraine's prior government into firing its top prosecutor - something Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani have pursued for months
. There are also unsupported rumors that Trump threatened to withhold $250 million in aid to help Ukraine fight Russian-backed separatists.
And while the MSM and Congressional Democrats are starting to focus on the sitting US president having a political opponent investigated,
The New
York Times admits that nothing Trump did would have been illegal , as "while Mr. Trump may have discussed intelligence activities
with the foreign leader, he enjoys broad power as president to declassify intelligence secrets, order the intelligence community
to act and otherwise direct the conduct of foreign policy as he sees fit."
Moreover, here's why Trump and Giuliani are going to dig their heels in; last year Biden openly bragged about threatening to hurl
Ukraine into bankruptcy as Vice President if they didn't fire their top prosecutor , Viktor Shokin - who was leading a wide-ranging
corruption investigation into a natural gas firm whose board Hunter Biden sat on.
In his own words, with video cameras rolling,
Biden described
how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in
U.S. loan guarantees , sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didn't immediately fire Prosecutor General
Viktor Shokin. -
The Hill
"I said, ' You're not getting the billion .' I'm going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them
and said: ' I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money, '" bragged Biden, recalling the
conversation with Poroshenko.
" Well, son of a bitch, he got fired . And they put in place someone who was solid at the time," Biden said at the Council on
Foreign Relations event - while insisting that former president Obama was complicit in the threat.
In short, there's both smoke and fire here - and what's left of Biden's 2020 bid for president may be the largest casualty of
the entire whistleblower scandal.
And by the transitive properties of the Obama administration 'vetting' Trump by sending spies into his campaign, Trump can simply
say he was protecting America from someone who may have used his position of power to directly benefit his own family at the expense
of justice.
Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are acting as if they've found the holy grail of taking Trump down. On Thursday, the House
Intelligence Committee chaired by Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) interviewed inspector general Michael Atkinson, with whom the whistleblower
lodged their complaint - however despite three hours of testimony, he repeatedly declined to discuss the content of the complaint
.
Following the session, Schiff gave an angry speech - demanding that acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire share
the complaint , and calling the decision to withhold it "unprecedented."
"We cannot get an answer to the question about whether the White House is also involved in preventing this information from coming
to Congress," said Schiff, adding "We're determined to do everything we can to determine what this urgent concern is to make sure
that the national security is protected."
According to Schiff, someone "is trying to manipulate the system to keep information about an urgent matter from the Congress
There certainly are a lot of indications that it was someone at a higher pay grade than the director of national intelligence," according
to the
Washington Post .
On thursday, Trump denied doing anything improper - tweeting " Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand
that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. "
"Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on
such a potentially 'heavily populated' call. "
Giuliani, meanwhile, went on CNN with Chris Cuomo Thursday to defend his discussions with Ukraine about investigating alleged election
interference in the 2016 election to the benefit of Hillary Clinton conducted by Ukraine's previous government. According to Giuliani,
Biden's dealings in Ukraine were 'tangential' to the 2016 election interference question - in which a Ukrainian court ruled that
government officials meddled
for Hillary in 2016 by releasing details of Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort's 'Black Book' to Clinton campaign staffer Alexandra
Chalupa.
And so - what the MSM doesn't appear to understand is that President Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden over something
with legitimate underpinnings.
Which - of course, may lead to the Bidens'
adventures in China , which Giuliani referred to in his CNN interview. And just like his
Ukraine scandal
, it involves actions which may have helped his son Hunter - who was making hand over fist in both countries.
Journalist Peter Schweizer, the author of Clinton Cash and now
Secret Empires discovered
that in 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew together to China on Air Force Two - and two weeks later, Hunter's
Journalist Peter Schweizer, the author of Clinton Cash and now
Secret Empires discovered
that in 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew together to China on Air Force Two - and two weeks later, Hunter's
firm inked a private equity deal for $1 billion with a subsidiary of the Chinese government's Bank of China , which expanded to $1.5
billion
Meanwhile, speculation is rampant over what this hornet's nest means for all involved...
The latest intell hit on Trump tells me that the deep-state swamp rats are in a panic over the Ukrainian/Obama admin collusion
about to be outed in the IG report. They're also freaked out over Biden's shady Ukrainian deals with his kid.
Hunter's firm inked a private equity deal for $1 billion with a subsidiary of the Chinese government's Bank of China , which
expanded to $1.5 billion
Lets clarify this a bit. The 1 billion came from the RED CHINESE ARMY, lets call spade a spade here. And why? To buy into (invest
in ) DARPA related contractors. The RED CHINESE NAVY was so impressed with little sonny's performance (meaning daddy's help),
that they handed over an additions 500,000.
Without daddy's influence as VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and that FREE PLANE RIDE on Air Force TWO with daddy holding
sonny's little hand, little sonny never would have gotten past the ticket booth.
"House Democrats are also looking into whether Giuliani flew to Ukraine to 'encourage' them to investigate Hunter Biden and
his involvement with Burisma."
LOL looking into someone looking into a crime that may have been committed by a Democrat... they're some big brained individuals
these dummycrats.
Putting him in the hot seat would be to ask why he sponsored a coup and backed a neo Nazi party. When he starts to lie, put
up images of the party he back wearing inverted Das Reich arm bands and flying flags. Now that would be real journalism.
The Bidens show precisely that power corrupts. They both need to be investigated and then jailed. To the countries of the world
that depend on the USA for any kind of help, they had to deal with Joe 'what's in-it-for-me' Biden? What a disgrace for America.
I think every sitting President, Vice President, senator, and representative needs a yearly lie-detector test that asks but
one question: "did you do anything in your official duties that personally benefited you or your family?"
Didn't you ever wonder how so many senators and representatives end up multi-millionaires after a couple terms in office?
Why the fuuk do we have have to put up with this jackass. All the talk on cable, etc, is all ********. Trump is a fuuking crook,
and Barr is his bag man,. He has surrounded hinmself with toadies, cowards , incompetents and a trash family. Rise up, call your
representatives, March on DC get this crook out of office.
Call anyone you can think of, challenge them to overcome their cowardice, including members of congress, cabinet, your governor
Same could be said for the Democrats and all their Russian collusion lies and Beto wants to FORCE people to sell their weapons
to the government, right.......
" ...The complaint <against the president> involved communications with a foreign leader and a "promise" that Trump made, which
was so alarming that a U.S. intelligence official <who monitored Trumps call> who had worked at the White House went to the inspector
general of the intelligence community, two former U.S. officials said. ..."
What this tells:
1. If president Trump is monitored this way our spooks know the number of hairs in our crotches...
2. If we convicted on promises most in congress would be hung by the neck til dead for treason for not following the constitution...
Anybody that thinks that Trump, having had Roy Cohn as his mentor, and working in cut-throat NY real estate for years, AND
having dealt with political snakes for many years..would allow himself to be taped saying something on a call that he KNOWS the
Intel Community is listening in, is not paying attention.
This will backfire on the Dems and the media. Trump set them all up again..
My guess is the Dems will be hounding the IC for the complaint, will call Barr and the DNI in an investigation ran live on
CNN and MSNBC..that will show how corrupt Biden was. Everytime you hear Alexandra Chalupa's name come up, look for the MSM to
go ballistic..she is the tell in this one also. It cannot be allowed for the plebes to find out how Manafort was setup, Ukraine
assisted the DNC in the fake Russian election interference farce..hey, guess what, guess who is an ardent Ukraininan nationalist?
The head of Crowdstrike. Chalupa and Alparovich, the names that will bring down more dirty Dems than anyone in history.
For days we've been treated to MSM insinuations that President Trump may have betrayed the United States
Trump is a traitor, but he does not work for either Ukraine nor Russia but instead he works for Israel first and foremost!
He even admits it himself. Lol he doesn't even give a shite when Israel taps his phone :)
House Democrats are also looking into whether Giuliani flew to Ukraine to 'encourage' them to investigate Hunter Biden and
his involvement with Burisma.
This bunch of filthy swine should be looking up each others asses for answers. Actually the Ukrainians have been screaming
for over a year at the DOJ and FBI to take the evidence they have. But the rotten to the core Democrat socialist lefties wanted
to block it.
A retired Australian diplomat who served in Moscow dissects the emergence of the new Cold
War and its dire consequences.
I n 2014, we saw violent U.S.-supported regime change and civil war in Ukraine. In February,
after months of increasing tension from the anti-Russian protest movement's sitdown strike in
Kiev's Maidan Square, there was a murderous clash between protesters and Ukrainian police,
sparked off by hidden shooters (we now know that were expert Georgian snipers) , aiming at
police. The elected government collapsed and President Yanukevich fled to Russia, pursued by
murder squads.
The new Poroshenko government pledged harsh anti-Russian language laws. Rebels in two
Russophone regions in Eastern Ukraine took local control, and appealed for Russian military
help. In March, a referendum took place in Russian-speaking Crimea on leaving Ukraine, under
Russian military protection. Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, a request promptly
granted by the Russian Parliament and President. Crimea's border with Ukraine was secured
against saboteurs. Crimea is prospering under its pro-Russian government, with the economy
kick-started by Russian transport infrastructure investment.
In April, Poroshenko ordered full military attack on the separatist provinces of Donetsk and
Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine. A brutal civil war ensued, with aerial and artillery bombardment
bringing massive civilian death and destruction to the separatist region. There was major
refugee outflow into Russia and other parts of Ukraine. The shootdown of MH17 took place in
July 2014.
Poroshenko: Ordered military attack.
By August 2015, according to UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
estimates, 13,000 people had been killed and 30,000 wounded. 1.4 million Ukrainians had been
internally displaced, and 925,000 had fled to neighbouring countries, mostly Russia and to a
lesser extent Poland.
There is now a military stalemate, under the stalled Minsk peace process. But random fatal
clashes continue, with the Ukrainian Army mostly blamed by UN observers. The UN reported last
month that the ongoing war has affected 5.2 million people, leaving 3.5 million of them in need
of relief, including 500,000 children. Most Russians blame the West for fomenting Ukrainian
enmity towards Russia. This war brings back for older Russians horrible memories of the Nazi
invasion in 1941. The Russia-Ukraine border is only 550 kilometres from Moscow.
Flashpoint Syria
Russian forces joined the civil war in Syria in September 2015, at the request of the Syrian
Government, faltering under the attacks of Islamist extremist rebel forces reinforced by
foreign fighters and advanced weapons. With Russian air and ground support, the tide of war
turned. Palmyra and Aleppo were recaptured in 2016. An alleged Syrian Government chemical
attack at Khan Shaykhun in April 2017 resulted in a token U.S. missile attack on a Syrian
Government airbase: an early decision by President Trump.
NATO, Strategic Balance, Sanctions
An F-15C Eagle from the 493rd Fighter Squadron takes off from Royal Air Force Lakenheath,
England, March 6, 2014. The 48th Fighter Wing sent an additional six aircraft and more than 50
personnel to support NATO's air policing mission in Lithuania, at the request of U.S. allies in
the Baltics. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Emerson Nunez/Released)
Tensions have risen in the Baltic as NATO moves ground forces and battlefield missiles up to
the Baltic states' borders with Russia. Both sides' naval and air forces play dangerous
brinksmanship games in the Baltic. U.S. short-range, non-nuclear-armed anti-ballistic missiles
were stationed in Poland and Romania, allegedly against threat of Iranian attack. They are
easily convertible to nuclear-armed missiles aimed at nearby Russia.
Nuclear arms control talks have stalled. The INF intermediate nuclear forces treaty expired
in 2019, after both sides accused the other of cheating. In March 2018, Putin announced that
Russia has developed new types of intercontinental nuclear missiles using technologies that
render U.S. defence systems useless. The West has pretended to ignore this announcement, but we
can be sure Western defence ministries have noted it. Nuclear second-strike deterrence has
returned, though most people in the West have forgotten what this means. Russians know exactly
what it means.
Western economic sanctions against Russia continue to tighten after the 2014 events in
Ukraine. The U.S. is still trying to block the nearly completed Nordstream Baltic Sea
underwater gas pipeline from Russia to Germany. Sanctions are accelerating the division of the
world into two trade and payments systems: the old NATO-led world, and the rest of the world
led by China, with full Russian support and increasing interest from India, Japan, ROK and
ASEAN.
Return to Moscow
In 2013, my children gave me an Ipad. I began to spend several hours a day reading well
beyond traditional mainstream Western sources: British and American dissident sites, writers
like Craig Murray in UK and in the U.S. Stephen Cohen, and some Russian sites – rt.com,
Sputnik, TASS, and the official Foreign Ministry site mid.ru. in English.
In late 2015 I decided to visit Russia independently to write Return to Moscow , a
literary travel memoir. I planned to compare my impressions of the Soviet Union, where I had
lived and worked as an Australian diplomat in 1969-71, with Russia today. I knew there had been
huge changes. I wanted to experience 'Putin's Russia' for myself, to see how it felt to be
there as an anonymous visitor in the quiet winter season. I wanted to break out of the familiar
one-dimensional hostile political view of Russia that Western mainstream media offer: to take
my readers with me on a cultural pilgrimage through the tragedy and grandeur and inspiration of
Russian history. As with my earlier book on Spain 'Walking the Camino' , this was not
intended to be a political book, and yet somehow it became one.
I was still uncommitted on contemporary Russian politics before going to Russia in January
2016. Using the metaphor of a seesaw, I was still sitting somewhere around the middle.
My book was written in late 2015 – early 2016, expertly edited by UWA Publishing. It
was launched in March 2017. By this time my political opinions had moved decisively to the
Russian end of the seesaw, on the basis of what I had seen in Russia, and what I had read and
thought during the year.
I have been back again twice, in winter 2018 and 2019. My 2018 visit included Crimea, and I
happened to see a Navalny-led Sunday demonstration in Moscow. I thoroughly enjoyed all three
independent visits: in my opinion, they give my judgements on Russia some depth and
authenticity.
Russophobia Becomes Entrenched
Russia was a big talking point in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. As the initially
unlikely Republican candidate Donald Trump's chances improved, anti-Putin and anti-Russian
positions hardened in the outgoing Obama administration and in the Democratic Party
establishment which backed candidate Hillary Clinton.
Russia and Putin became caught up in the Democratic Party's increasingly obsessive rage and
hatred against the victorious Trump. Russophobia became entrenched in Washington and London
U.S. and UK political and strategic elites, especially in intelligence circles: think of
Pompeo, Brennan, Comey and Clapper. All sense of international protocol and diplomatic
propriety towards Russia and its President was abandoned, as this appalling Economist
cover from October 2016 shows.
My experience of undeclared political censorship in Australia since four months after
publication of 'Return to Moscow' supports the thesis that:
We are now in the thick of a ruthless but mostly covert Anglo-American alliance
information war against Russia. In this war, individuals who speak up publicly in the cause of
detente with Russia will be discouraged from public discourse.
In the Thick of Information War
When I spoke to you two years ago, I had no idea how far-reaching and ruthless this
information war is becoming. I knew that a false negative image of Russia was taking hold in
the West, even as Russia was becoming a more admirable and self-confident civil society, moving
forward towards greater democracy and higher living standards, while maintaining essential
national security. I did not then know why, or how.
I had just had time to add a few final paragraphs in my book about the possible consequences
for Russia-West relations of Trump's surprise election victory in November 2016. I was right to
be cautious, because since Trump's inauguration we have seen the step-by-step elimination of
any serious pro-detente voices in Washington, and the reassertion of control over this
haphazard president by the bipartisan imperial U.S. deep state, as personified from April 2018
by Secretary of State Pompeo and National Security Adviser Bolton. Bolton has now been thrown
from the sleigh as decoy for the wolves: under the smooth-talking Pompeo, the imperial policies
remain.
Truth, Trust and False Narratives
Let me now turn to some theory about political reality and perception, and how national
communities are persuaded to accept false narratives. Let me acknowledge my debt to the
fearless and brilliant Australian independent online journalist, Caitlin Johnstone.
Behavioural scientists have worked in the field of what used to be called propaganda since
WW1. England has always excelled in this field. Modern wars are won or lost not just on the
battlefield, but in people's minds. Propaganda, or as we now call it information warfare, is as
much about influencing people's beliefs within your own national community as it is
about trying to demoralise and subvert the enemy population.
The IT revolution of the past few years has exponentially magnified the effectiveness of
information warfare. Already in the 1940s, George Orwell understood how easily governments are
able to control and shape public perceptions of reality and to suppress dissent. His brilliant
books 1984 and Animal Farm are still instruction manuals in principles of
information warfare. Their plots tell of the creation by the state of false narratives, with
which to control their gullible populations.
The disillusioned Orwell wrote from his experience of real politics. As a volunteer fighter
in the Spanish Civil War, he saw how both Spanish sides used false news and propaganda
narratives to demonise the enemy. He also saw how the Nazi and Stalinist systems in Germany and
Russia used propaganda to support show trials and purges, the concentration camps and the
Gulag, anti-Semitism and the Holocaust, German master race and Stalinist class enemy
ideologies; and hows dissident thought was suppressed in these controlled societies. Orwell
tried to warn his readers: all this could happen here too, in our familiar old England. But
because the good guys won the war against fascism, his warnings were ignored.
We are now in Britain, U.S. and Australia actually living in an information warfare world
that has disturbing echoes of the world that Orwell wrote about. The essence of information
control is the effective state management of two elements, trust and fear , to
generate and uphold a particular view of truth. Truth, trust and fear : these are the
three key elements, now as 100 years ago in WWI Britain.
People who work or have worked close to government – in departments, politics, the
armed forces, or top universities – mostly accept whatever they understand at the time to
be 'the government view' of truth. Whether for reasons of organisational loyalty, career
prudence or intellectual inertia, it is usually this way around governments. It is why moral
issues like the Vietnam War and the U.S.-led 2003 invasion of Iraq were so distressing for
people of conscience working in or close to government and military jobs in Canberra. They were
expected to engage in 'doublethink' as Orwell had described it:
Even in Winston's nightmare world, there were still choices – to retreat into the
non-political world of the proles, or to think forbidden thoughts and read forbidden books.
These choices involved large risks and punishments. It was easier and safer for most people to
acquiesce in the fake news they were fed by state-controlled media.
'Trust, Truth and False Narratives'
Fairfax journalist Andrew Clark, in the Australian Financial Review , in an essay
optimistically titled "Not fake news: Why truth and trust are still in good shape in
Australia", (AFR Dec. 22, 2018), cited Professor William Davies thus:
"Most of the time, the edifice that we refer to as "truth" is really an investment of
trust in our structures of politics and public life' 'When trust sinks below a certain point,
many people come to view the entire spectacle of politics and public life as a sham."
Here is my main point: Effective information warfare requires the creation of enough
public trust to make the public believe that state-supported lies are true.
The key tools are repetition of messages, and diversification of trusted
voices. Once a critical mass is created of people believing a false narrative, the lie locks
in: its dissemination becomes self-sustaining.
" Power is being able to control what happens. Absolute power is being able
to control what people think about what happens. If you can control what happens,
you can have power until the public gets sick of your BS and tosses you out on your ass. If
you can control what people think about what happens, you can have power forever. As
long as you can control how people are interpreting circumstances and events, there's no
limit to the evils you can get away with."
The Internet has made propaganda campaigns that used to take weeks or months a matter of
hours or even minutes to accomplish. It is about getting in quickly, using large enough
clusters of trusted and diverse sources, in order to cement lies in place, to make the
lies seem true, to magnify them through social messaging: in other words, to create credible
false narratives that will quickly get into the public's bloodstream.
Over the past two years, I have seen this work many times: on issues like framing Russia for
the MH17 tragedy; with false allegations of Assad mounting poison gas attacks in Syria; with
false allegations of Russian agents using lethal Novichok to try to kill the Skripals in
Salisbury; and with the multiple lies of Russiagate.
It is the mind-numbing effect of constant repetition of disinformation by many eminent
people and agencies, in hitherto trusted channels like the BBC or ABC or liberal Anglophone
print media that gives the system its power to persuade the credulous. For if so many diverse
and reputable people repeatedly report such negative news and express such negative judgements
about Russia or China or Iran or Syria, surely they must be right?
We have become used to reading in our quality newspapers and hearing on the BBC and ABC and
SBS gross assaults on truth, calmly presented as accepted facts. There is no real public debate
on important facts in contention any more. There are no venues for dissent outside contrarian
social media sites.
Sometimes, false narratives inter-connect. Often a disinformation narrative in one area is
used to influence perceptions in other areas. For example, the false Skripals poisoning story
was launched by British intelligence in March 2018, just in time to frame Syrian President
Assad as the guilty party in a faked chemical weapons attack in Douma the following month.
The Skripals Gambit
The Skripals gambit was also a failed British attempt to blight the Russia –hosted
Football World Cup in June 2018. In the event, hundreds of thousands of Western sports fans
returned home with the warmest memories of Russian good sportsmanship and hospitality.
How do I know the British Skripals narrative is false? For a start, it is illogical,
incoherent, and constantly changes. Allegedly, two visiting Russian FSB agents in March 2018
sprayed or smeared Novichok, a deadly toxin instantly lethal in the most microscopic
quantities, on the Skripals' house front doorknob. There is no video footage of the Skripals at
their front door on the day. We are told they were found slumped on a park bench, and that is
maybe where they had been sprayed with nerve gas? Shortly afterwards, Britain's Head of Army
Nursing who happened to be passing by found them, and supervised their hospitalisation and
emergency treatment.
Allegedly, much of Salisbury was contaminated by Novichok, and one unfortunate woman
mysteriously died weeks later, yet the Skripals somehow did not die, as we are told. But where
are they now? We saw a healthy Yulia in a carefully scripted video interview released in May
2018, after an alleged 'one in a million' recovery. We were assured her father had recovered
too, but nobody has seen him at all. The Skripals have simply disappeared from sight since 16
months ago. Are they now alive or dead? Are they in voluntary or involuntary British
custody?
A month after the poisoning, the UK Government sent biological samples from the Skripals to
the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons , for testing. The OPCW sent the
samples to a trusted OPCW laboratory in Spiez, Switzerland.
Lavrov Spiez BZ claims, April 2018
A few days later, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dramatically announced in Moscow
that the Spiez lab had found in the samples a temporary-effect nerve agent BZ, used by U.S. and
UK but not by Russia, that would have disabled the Skripals for a few days without killing
them. He also revealed the Spiez lab had found that the Skripal samples had been twice tampered
with while still in UK custody: first soon after the poisoning, and again shortly before
passing them to the OPCW. He said the Spiez lab had found a high concentration of Novichok,
which he called A- 234, in its original form. This was extremely suspicious as A-234 has high
volatility and could not have retained its purity over a two weeks period. The dosage the Spiez
lab found in the samples would have surely killed the Skripals. The OPCW under British pressure
rejected Lavrov's claim, and suppressed the Spiez lab report.
Let's look finally at the alleged assassins.
'Boshirov and Petrov'
These two FSB operatives who visited Salisbury under the false identities of 'Boshirov' and
'Petrov' did not look or behave like credible assassins. It is more likely that they were sent
to negotiate with Sergey Skripal about his rumoured interest in returning to Russia. They
needed to apply for UK visas a month in advance of travel: ample time for the British agencies
to identify them as FSB operatives, and to construct a false attempted assassination narrative
around their visit. This false narrative repeatedly trips over its own lies and contradictions.
British social media are full of alternative theories and rebuttals. Russians find the whole
British Government Skripal narrative laughable. They have invented comedy skits and video games
based on it. Yet it had major impact on Russia-West relations.
The Douma False Narrative
I turn now to the claimed Assad chemical weapons attack in Douma in April 2018.This falsely
alleged attack triggered a major NATO air attack on Syrian targets, ordered by Trump. We came
close to WWIII in these dangerous days. Thanks to the restraint of the then Secretary of
Defence James Mattis and his Russian counterparts, the risk was contained.
The allegation that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had used outlawed chemical weapons
against his own people was based solely on the evidence of faked video images of child victims,
made by the discredited White Helmets, a UK-sponsored rebel-linked 'humanitarian' propaganda
organisation with much blood on its hands. Founded in 2013 by a British private security
specialist of intelligence background, James Le Mesurier, the White Helmets specialised in
making fake videos of alleged Assad regime war crimes against Syrian civilians. It is by now a
thoroughly discredited organisation that was prepared to kill its prisoners and then film their
bodies as alleged victims of government chemical attacks.
White Helmets
As the town of Douma was about to fall to advancing Syrian Government forces, the White
Helmets filled a room with stacked corpses of murdered prisoners, and photographed them as
alleged victims of aerial gas attack. They also made a video alleging child victims of this
attack being hosed down by White Helmets. A video of a child named Hassan Diab went viral all
over the Western world.
Hassan Diab later testified publicly in The Hague that he had been dragged terrified from
his family by force, smeared with some sort of grease, and hosed down with water as part of a
fake video. He went from hero to zero overnight, as Western governments and media rejected his
testimony as Russian and Syrian propaganda.
In a late development, there is proof that the OPCW suppressed its own engineers' report
from Douma that the alleged poison gas cylinders could not have possibly been dropped from the
air through the roof of the house where one was found, resting on a bed under a convenient hole
in the roof.
I could go on discussing the detail of such false narratives all day. No matter how often
they are exposed by critics, our politicians and mainstream media go on referencing them as if
they are true. Once people have come to believe false narratives, it is hard to refute
them.
So it is with the false narrative that Russian internet interference enabled Trump to win
the 2016 U.S. presidential elections: a thesis for which no evidence was found by [Special
Counsel Robert] Mueller, yet continues to be cited by many U.S. liberal Democratic media as if
it were true. So, even, with MH17.
Managing Mass Opinion
This mounting climate of Western Russophobia is not accidental: it is strategically
directed, and it is nourished with regular maintenance doses of fresh lies. Each round of lies
provides a credible platform for the next round somewhere else. The common thread is a claimed
malign Russian origin for whatever goes wrong.
So where is all this disinformation originating? Information technology firms in Washington
and London that are closely networked into government elites, often through attending the same
establishment schools or colleges like Eton and Yale, have closely studied and tested the
science of influencing crowd opinions through mainstream media and online. They know, in a way
that Orwell or Goebbels could hardly have dreamt, how to put out and repeat desired media
messages. They know what sizes of 'internet attraction nodes' need to be established online, in
order to create diverse critical masses of credible Russophobic messaging, which then attracts
enough credulous and loyal followers to become self-propagating.
Firms like the SCL Group (formerly Strategic Communication Laboratories) and the now defunct
Cambridge Analytica pioneered such work in the UK. There are many similar firms in Washington,
all in the business of monitoring, generating and managing mass opinion. It is big business,
and it works closely with the national security state.
Starting in November 2018, an enterprising group of unknown hackers in the UK , who go by
the name 'Anonymous', opened a remarkable window into this secret world. Over a few weeks, they
hacked and dumped online a huge volume of original documents issued by and detailing the
activities of the Institute for Statecraft (IfS) and the Integrity initiative
(II). Here is the first page of one of their dumps, exposing propaganda against Jeremy
Corbyn.
We know from this material that the IfS and II are two secret British disinformation
networks operating at arms' length from but funded by the UK security services and broader UK
government establishment. They bring together high-ranking military and intelligence personnel,
often nominally retired, journalists and academics, to produce and disseminate propaganda that
serves the agendas of the UK and its allies.
Stung by these massive leaks, Chris Donnelly, a key figure in IfS and II and a former
British Army intelligence officer, made a now famous seven-minute YouTube video in December
2018, artfully filmed in a London kitchen, defending their work.
He argued – quite unconvincingly in my opinion – that IfS and II are simply
defending Western societies against disinformation and malign influence, primarily from Russia.
He boasted how they have set up in numerous targeted European countries, claimed to be under
attack from Russian disinformation, what he called 'clusters of influence' , to
'educate' public opinion and decision-makers in pro-NATO and anti-Russian directions.
Donnelly spoke frankly on how the West is already at war with Russia, a 'new kind of
warfare', in which he said 'everything becomes a weapon'. He said that 'disinformation is the
issue which unites all the other weapons in this conflict and gives them a third
dimension'.
He said the West has to fight back, if it is to defend itself and to prevail.
We can confirm from the Anonymous leaked files the names of many people in Europe being
recruited into these clusters of influence. They tend to be significant people in journalism,
publishing, universities and foreign policy think-tanks: opinion-shapers. The leaked documents
suggest how ideologically suitable candidates are identified: approached for initial screening
interviews; and, if invited to join a cluster of influence, sworn to secrecy.
Remarkably, neither the Anonymous disclosures nor the Donnelly response have ever been
reported in Australian media. Even in Britain – where evidence that the Integrity
Initiative was mounting a campaign against [Labour leader] Jeremy Corbyn provoked brief media
interest. The story quickly disappeared from mainstream media and the BBC. A British
under-foreign secretary admitted in Parliamentary Estimates that the UK Foreign Office
subsidises the Institute of Statecraft to the tune of nearly 3 million pounds per year. It also
gives various other kinds of non-monetary assistance, e.g. providing personnel and office
support in Britain's overseas embassies.
This is not about traditional spying or seeking agents of influence close to governments. It
is about generating mass disinformation, in order to create mass climates of belief.
In my opinion, such British and American disinformation efforts, using undeclared clusters
of influence, through Five Eyes intelligence-sharing, and possibly with the help of British and
American diplomatic missions, may have been in operation in Australia for many years.
Such networks may have been used against me since around mid-2017, to limit the commercial
outreach of my book and the impact of its dangerous ideas on the need for East-West detente;
and efficiently to suppress my voice in Australian public discourse about Russia and the West.
Do I have evidence for this? Yes.
It is not coincidence that the Melbourne Writers Festival in August 2017 somehow lost all my
sign-and-sell books from my sold-out scheduled speaking event; that a major debate with
[Australian writer and foreign policy analyst] Bobo Lo at the Wheeler Centre in Melbourne was
cancelled by his Australian sponsor, the Lowy institute, two weeks before the advertised date;
that my last invitation to any writers festival was 15 months ago, in May 2018; that Return
to Moscow was not shortlisted for any Australian book prize, though I entered it in all of
them ; that since my book's early promotion ended around August 2017, I have not been invited
to join any ABC discussion panels, or to give any talks on Russia in any universities or
institutes, apart from the admirable Australian Institute of International Affairs and the
ISAA.
My articles and shorter opinion commentaries on Russia and the West have not been published
in mainstream media or in reputable online journals like Eureka Street, The Conversation,
Inside Story or Australian Book Review . Despite being an ANU Emeritus Fellow, I
have not been invited to give a public talk or join any panel in ANU (Australian National
University) or any Canberra think tank. In early 2018, I was invited to give a private briefing
to a group of senior students travelling on an immersion course to Russia. I was not invited
back in 2019, after high-level private advice within ANU that I was regarded as too
pro-Putin.
In all these ways – none overt or acknowledged – my voice as an open-minded
writer and speaker on Russia-West relations seems to have been quietly but effectively
suppressed in Australia. I would like to be proved wrong on this, but the evidence is
there.
This may be about "velvet-glove deterrence" of my Russia-sympathetic voice and pen, in order
to discourage others, especially those working in or close to government. Nobody is going to
put me in jail, unless I am stupid enough to violate Australia's now strict foreign influence
laws. This deterrence is about generating fear of consequences for people still in their
careers, paying their mortgages, putting kids through school. Nobody wants to miss their next
promotion.
There are other indications that Australian national security elite opinion has been
indoctrinated prudently to fear and avoid any kind of public discussion of positive engagement
with Russia (or indeed, with China).
There are only two kinds of news about Russia now permitted in our mainstream media,
including the ABC and SBS: negative news and comment, or silence. Unless a story can be given
an anti-Russian sting, it will not be carried at all. Important stories are simply spiked, like
last week's Eastern Economic Forum in Vladivistok, chaired by President Putin and attended by
Prime Ministers Abe, Mahathir and Modi, among 8500 participants from 65 countries.
The ABC idea of a balanced panel to discuss any Russian political topic was exemplified
in an ABC Sunday Extra Roundtable panel chaired by Eleanor Hall on July, 22 2018, soon after
the Trump-Putin Summit in Helsinki. The panel – a former ONA Russia analyst, a professor
of Soviet and Russian History at Melbourne University, and a Russian émigré
dissident journalist introduced as the 'Washington correspondent for Echo of Moscow radio'
spent most of their time sneering at Putin and Trump. There were no other views.
A powerful anti-Russian news narrative is now firmly in place in Australia, on every topic
in contention: Ukraine, MH17, Crimea, Syria, the Skripals, Navalny and public protest in
Russia. There is ill-informed criticism of Russia, or silence, on the crucial issues of arms
control and Russia-China strategic and economic relations as they affect Australia's national
security or economy. There is no analysis of the negative impact on Australia of economic
sanctions against Russia. There is almost no discussion of how improved relations with China
and Russia might contribute to Australia's national security and economic welfare, as American
influence in the world and our region declines, and as American reliability as an ally comes
more into question. Silence on inconvenient truths is an important part of the disinformation
tool kit.
I see two overall conflicting narratives – the prevailing Anglo-American false
narrative; and valiant efforts by small groups of dissenters, drawing on sources outside the
Anglo-American official narrative, to present another narrative much closer to truth. And this
is how most Russians now see it too.
The Trump-Putin summit in Helsinki in July 2018 was damaged by the Skripal and Syria
fabrications. Trump left that summit friendless, frightened and humiliated. He soon surrendered
to the power of the U.S. imperial state as then represented by [Mike] Pompeo and [John] Bolton,
who had both been appointed as Secretary of State and National Security Adviser in April 2018
and who really got into their stride after the Helsinki Summit. Pompeo now smoothly dominates
Trump's foreign policy.
Self-Inflicted Wounds
U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (Gage Skidmore)
Finally, let me review the American political casualties over the past two years –
self-inflicted wounds – arising from this secret information war against Russia. Let me
list them without prejudging guilt or innocence. Slide 20 – Self-inflicted wounds:
casualties of anti-Russian information warfare.
Trump's first National Security Adviser, the highly decorated Michael Flynn lost his job
after only three weeks, and soon went to jail. His successor H R McMaster lasted 13 months
until replaced by John Bolton. Trump's first Secretary of State Rex Tillerson lasted just 14
months until his replacement by Trump's appointed CIA chief (in January 2017) Mike Pompeo.
Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon lasted only seven months. Trump's former campaign
chairman Paul Manafort is now in jail.
Defence Secretary James Mattis lasted nearly two years as Secretary of Defence, and was an
invaluable source of strategic stability. He resigned in December 2018. The highly capable
Ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman lasted just two years: he is resigning next month. John Kelly
lasted 18 months as White House Chief of Staff. Less senior figures like George Papadopoulos
and Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen both served jail time. The pattern I see here is that
people who may have been trying responsibly as senior U.S. officials to advance Trump's initial
wish to explore possibilities for detente with Russia – policies that he had advocated as
a candidate – were progressively purged, one after another . The anti-Russian U.S.
bipartisan imperial state is now firmly back in control. Trump is safely contained as far as
Russia is concerned .
Russians do not believe that any serious detente or arms control negotiations can get under
way while cold warriors like Pompeo continue effectively to control Trump. There have been
other casualties over the past two years of tightening American Russophobia. Julian Assange and
Chelsea Manning come to mind. The naive Maria Butina is a pathetic victim of American judicial
rigidity and deep state vindictiveness.
False anti-Russian Government narratives emanating from London and Washington may be laughed
at in Moscow , but they are unquestioningly accepted in Canberra. We are the most gullible of
audiences. There is no critical review. Important contrary factual information and analysis
from and about Russia just does not reach Australian news reporting and commentary, nor –
I fear – Australian intelligence assessment. We are prisoners of the false narratives fed
to us by our senior Five Eyes partners U.S. and UK.
To conclude: Some people may find what I am saying today difficult to accept. I understand
this. I now work off open-source information about Russia with which many people here are
unfamiliar, because they prefer not to read the diverse online information sources that I
choose to read. The seesaw has tilted for me: I have clearly moved a long way from mainstream
Western perceptions on Russia-West relations.
Under Trump and Pompeo, as the Syria and Iran crises show, the present risk of global
nuclear war by accident or incompetent Western decision-making is as high as it ever was in the
Cold War. The West needs to learn again how to dialogue usefully and in mutually respectful
ways with Russia and China. This expert knowledge is dying with our older and wiser former
public servants and ex-military chiefs.
These remarks were delivered by Tony Kevin at the Independent Scholars Association of
Australia in Canberra, Australia on Wednesday.
Watch Tony Kevin interviewed Friday night on CN Live!
Tony Kevin is a retired Australian diplomat who was posted to Moscow from 1969 to 1971,
and was later Australia's ambassador to Poland and Cambodia. His latest book is Return to
Moscow, published by UWA Publishing.
Bruce , September 17, 2019 at 08:58
Excellent article. It's very interesting to see how the state and its media lackey set the
narrative.
Most of this comment relates to the Skripals but also applies to other matters (the
Skripals writing was some of Craig Murray's finest work in my opinion). One of the hallmarks
of a hoax is a constantly evolving storyline. I think governments have learned from past
"mistakes" with their hoaxes/deception where they've given a description of events and then
scientists/engineers/chemists etc have come in and criticised their version of events with
details and scientific arguments. Nowadays, governments are very reluctant to commit to a
version of events, and instead rely on the media (their propaganda assets) to provide a
scattergun set of information to muddy the waters and thoroughly confuse the population. The
government is then insulated from some of the more bizarre allegations (the headlines of
which are absorbed nonetheless), and can blame it on the media (who would use an anonymous
government source naturally). Together with classifying just about everything on national
security grounds, they can stonewall for as long as they want.
The British are masters of propaganda. They maintained a global empire for a very long
time, and the prevailing view (in the west at least) was probably one of tea-drinking cricket
playing colonials/gentlemen. But you don't maintain an empire without being absolutely
ruthless and brutal. They've been doing this for a very long time.
When we hear something from the BBC or ABC, we should think "State Media".
That's probably why its got a nice folksy nickname of "aunty" .build up the trust.
Society is suffering the extreme paradox; there is the potential for everyone to have a
voice, but the last vestiges of free speech have been whittled away. Fake news is universal,
assisted by the fake "left". It is impossible to get published any challenge to even the most
outlandish versions of identity politics. As the experience of Tony Kevin exemplifies, all
avenues for dissent against hegemonic orthodoxies are closed off.
Disinformation is now an essential weapon in waging hot and cold wars. Cold War historians
are well informed on false flags, "black ops", and other organised dirty tactics. I do not
know what happened to the Skripals, and while it is legitimate to bear in mind KGB
assassinations, despite the enormous resources at its disposal, the English security state
has been unable to construct a credible case. Surely scepticism is provoked by the leading
role being played by the notorious Bellingcat outfit.
Zenobia van Dongen , September 17, 2019 at 00:29
Here is part of an eyewitness account:
"After the Orange Revolution which began in Kiev, the country was divided literally into two
parts -- the supporters of integration with Russia and the supporters of an independent
Ukraine. For almost 100 years belonging to the Soviet Union, the propaganda about the
assistance and care from our "big brother" Russia, in Ukraine as a whole and the Donbass in
particular has borne fruit. At the end of February 2014, some cities of the Southeast part
were boiling with mass social and political protest against the new Ukrainian government in
defense of the status of the Russian language, voicing separatist and pro-Russian slogans.
The division took place in our city of Sloviansk too. Some people stood for separation from
Ukraine, while Ukrainian patriots stood for the unity of our country.
On April 12, 2014 our city of Sloviansk in the Donetsk region was seized by Russian
mercenaries and local volunteers. From that moment onward, armed assaults on state
institutions began. The city police department, the Sloviansk City Hall, the building of the
Ukraine Security Service was occupied. Armed militants seized state institutions and
confiscated private property. They threatened and beat people, and those who refused to obey
were taken away to an unknown destination and people started disappearing. The persecution
and abduction of patriotic citizens began."
Michael McNulty , September 16, 2019 at 11:36
Watching Vietnam news coverage as a kid in the '60s I noticed the planes carpet-bombing
South East Asia were American, not Russian. And as I only watched the footage and never
listened to the commentary (I was waiting for the kids programs that followed) the BS they
came out with to explain it all never reached me. I saw with my own eyes what the US really
was and is, and always believed growing up they were the belligerent side not Russia. Once
the USSR fell it was clear there were no longer any constraints on US excesses.
dean 1000 , September 15, 2019 at 18:17
Doublethink, not to mention doublespeak, is so apt to describe what is happening. If
Orwell was writing today it would have to be classified as non-fiction.
Free speech is impossible unless every election district has a radio/TV station where
candidates, constituents, and others can debate, discuss and speak to the issues without
bending a knee to large campaign contributors or the controllers of corporate or government
media. It may start with low-power pirate radio/TV broadcasts. No, the pirate speakers will
not have to climb a cell tower to broadcast an opinion to the neighborhood or precinct.
If genuine free speech is going to exist it will start as something unauthorized and
unlawful. If it sticks to the facts it will quickly prove its value.
Excellent article. The only exhibit missing was reference to Bill Browder's lies.
Browder's rubbish has been exposed by intrepid journalists and documentary makers such as
Andrei Nekrasov, Sasha Krainer and Lucy Komisar but to read or listen to our media, you'd
think BB was some sort of human rights hero. That's because BB's fairy tale fits nicely into
the MSM's hatred of Putin and Russia. Debunk Browder and a major pillar of anti-Russia
prejudice collapses. Therefore, Browder will never face any serious questions by the MSM.
John A , September 16, 2019 at 09:18
judges of the European Court of Human Rights published a judgement a fortnight ago which
utterly exploded the version of events promulgated by Western governments and media in the
case of the late Mr Magnitskiy. Yet I can find no truthful report of the judgement in the
mainstream media at all. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/09/the-magnitskiy-myth-exploded/
MSM propaganda by omission. Anything that doesn't fit the government narrative gets zero
publicity.
I have stopped following australian mainstream media including the darlings of the 'left'
ABC/SBS over a decade ago, completely. My disgust with their 'coverage' of the 2008 GFC was
more than enough. Since 2008-9 things have deteriorated drastically into conspiracy theory
propaganda by omission la-la land *it seems*, given I don't tune in at all.
The author has a well supported view. I find it a little naive in him thinking that the
MSM has that much power over shaping public opinion in australia.
People who want to be informed do so. The half intelligent conformists on hamster wheel of
lifetime mortgage debt have 'careers' to hold onto, so parroting the group think or living in
ignorance is much easier. The massive portion of australian racists, inbred bogans and idiots
that make up the large LNP, One Nation etc. voting block are completely beyond salvation or
ability to process, and critically evaluate any information. The smarter ones drool on about
the 'UN Agenda 21' conspiracy at best. Utterly hopeless.
I don't expect things to change as the australian economy is slowly hollowed out by the
rich, and the education system (that has always been about conforming, wearing school uniform
and regurgitating what the teacher/lecturer says at best) is gutted completely. Welcome to
australistan.
Fran Macadam , September 14, 2019 at 19:21
Note that the prohibition against false propaganda to indoctrinate the domestic population
by the American government was lifted by President Obama at the tail end of his
administration. The Executive Order legalizes all the deceptive behavior Tony itemizes in his
article.
Josep , September 17, 2019 at 04:10
I thought it was Reagan who did that by abolishing the Fairness Doctrine in 1987. At least
in terms of television and radio (?) broadcasts.
Thank you Tony for your thoughtful talk (and interview on CN Live! too).
What's encouraging is this cohort of what might be called 'millennial journalists' coming
through willing to do 'shoe-leather' journalism and stand up to smears and flack for
revealing uncomfortable facts and truth. They're the online 5th estate holding the 4th to
account (to steal Ray McGovern's apt view), and they're congealing against the onslaught.
Some include Max Blumenthal and Rania Kahlek (both now being pilloried by MSM and others
for visiting Syrian government held areas and reporting that life isn't hellish as MSM would
have everyone believe heaven forbid); Vanessa Bealey who's exposed a lot of White Helmet
horrors and false-flag attacks in Syria (and being attacked by all and sundry for exposing
the White Helmets in particular); Abby Martin whose Empire Files are excellent and always
edifying; Dan Cohen who has written the best expose of the actors behind the Hong Kong
rioting and co-authored the best expose of the background of Guaido et al.; Whitney Webb of
Mint Press whose series on Epstein is overwhelming and likely a ticking timebomb; Caitlin
Johnstone of course; and Aaron 'Buzzsaw' Mate who made his first mark with a wonderful
takedown interview of Russiaphobe MI6 shill Luke Harding. Others too of course, with most
appearing or having written pieces on CN. John Pilger, Robert Fisk, Greg Palast, et al. won't
drop off their twigs disappointed.
This, along with the fact that MSM -- that cowed and compromised fourth estate --
increasingly is held in such laughable contempt by most people under about 50 yr, is highly
encouraging indeed. Truth is the new black.
nwwoods , September 15, 2019 at 11:49
The Blogmire is an excellent resource for detailed analysis of the Skripal hoax. The
author happens to be a long-time resident of Salisbury, and is intimately familiar with the
topography, public services, etc., and a very thorough investigator.
John Wright , September 14, 2019 at 18:35
I'm not surprised that Mr. Kevin is being isolated and shunned by the Australian
establishment. Truth and truth tellers are always the first casualties of war. I do hope that
his experience will encourage him to increase his resistance to the corrosiveness of
mendacious propaganda and those who promulgate it.
Truth is the single best weapon when fighting for a peaceful future.
If Australia is to flourish in the 21st century, it really needs to understand Russia and
China, how they relate to each other, and how this key alliance will interface with the rest
of the world. Australia and Australians simply cannot afford to get sucked down further by
facilitating the machinations of the collapsing Anglo-American Empire. They have served the
empire ably and faithfully, but now need to take a cold hard look at reality and realign
their long-term interests with the coming global power shift. If not, they could literally
find themselves in the middle of an unwinnable and devastating war.
* * *
The first Anglo-American Russian cold war began with the Russian revolution and was only
briefly suspended when the West needed the Soviet people to throw themselves in front of the
Nazi blitzkrieg in order to save Western Europe. Following their catastrophically costly
contribution to the victory on the Continent, the Russians were greeted with an American
nuclear salute on their eastern periphery, signalling their return to the diplomatic and
economic deep freeze.
While the Anglo-American Empire solidified and extended its hold on the globe, the
enlarged but war-ravaged and isolated Soviet Union hunkered down and survived on scraps and
sheer will until its collapse in 1989. Declaring the cold war over, and with promises to help
their new Russian friends build a prosperous future, the duplicitous West then ransacked
their neighbors resources and sold them into debt peonage. The Russians cried foul, the West
shrugged and Putin pushed back. Unable to declaw the bear, the west closed the cage door
again and the second cold war commenced.
* * *
The first cold war was essentially an offensive war disguised as a defensive war. It
enabled the Anglo-American Empire to leverage its post-war advantage and establish near total
dominance around the globe through naked violence and monetary hegemony.
Today, with its dominance rapidly slipping away, the Anglo-American Empire is waging a
truly defensive cold war. On the home front, they fight to convince their subjects of their
eternal exceptionalism with ever more absurd and vile propaganda denigrating their
adversaries . Abroad, they disrupt and defraud in a desperate attempt to delay the demise of
the PetroDollar ponzi.
The Russians and the Chinese, having both been brutally burned by the Western elites, will
not be fooled into abandoning their natural geographic partnership. They are no longer
content to sit quietly at the kids' table taking notes. While they may not demand to sit at
the head of the table, it is clear that they will insist on a round table, and one that is
large enough to include their growing list of friends.
If the Americans don't smash the table, it could be the first of many peaceful pot
lucks.
John Read , September 15, 2019 at 02:11
Well said. Great comments. Thanks to Tony Kevin.
Mia , September 14, 2019 at 18:33
Thank you Tony for continuing to shine light on the pathetic propaganda information bubble
Australians have been immersed in .. you demonstrate great courage and you are not alone
??
Peter Loeb , September 14, 2019 at 12:58
WITH THANKS TO TONY KEVIN
An excellent article.
There is a lack of comments from some of the common writers upon whose views I often
rely.
Personally, I often avoid the very individual responses from websites as I have no way
of checking out previous ideas of theirs. Who funds them? With which organizations are
they
affiliated? And so forth and so on.
Peter Loeb, Boston, Massachusetts
Peter Sapo , September 14, 2019 at 10:24
As a fellow Australian, everything Tony Kevin said makes perfect sense. Our mainstream
media landscape is designed to distribute propaganda to folk accross the political spectrum.
Have you noticed that the ABC regurgitates stories from the BBC? The BBC has a long history
(at least since WW2) of supporting government propaganda initiatives. Based on this fact, it
is hard to see how ABC and SBS don't do the same when called upon by their minders.
Francis Lee , September 14, 2019 at 09:48
I just wonder where the Anglo-Zionist empire thinks it is going. It should be obvious that
any NATO war against Russia involving a nuclear exchange is unwinnable. It seems equally
likely the even a conventional war will not necessarily bring the result expected by the
assorted 'experts' – nincompoops living in their own fantasy world. The idea that the
US can fight a war without the US homeland becoming very much involved basically ended when
Putin announced the creation of Russia's set of advanced hypersonic missile system. But this
was apparently ignored by the 'defence' establishment. It was not true, it could not possibly
be true, or so we were told.
Moreover the cost of such wars involving hundreds of thousands of troops and military
hardware are massively expensive and would occasion a massive resistance from the populations
affected. It was the wests wars in Korea, and Indo-China that bankrupted the US and led to
the US$ being removed from the gold standard. The American military is rapidly consuming the
American economy, or at least what is left of it. From a realist foreign policy perspective
this is simply madness. Great powers end wars, they don't start them. Great powers are
creditor nations, not debtor nations. Such is the realist foreign policy view. But foreign
policy realists are few and far between in the Washington Beltway and MIC/NSA Pentagon and
US/UK/AUSTRALIAN MSM.
Thus the neo-hubris of the English speaking world is such that if it is followed to its
logical conclusion then total annihilation would be the logical outcome. A sad example of not
very bright people who face no domestic opposition, believing in their own bullshit:
"American elites proved themselves to be master manipulators of propaganda constructs But
the real danger from such manipulations arises not when those manipulations are done out of
knowledge of reality, which is distorted for propaganda purposes, but when those who
manipulation begin to sincerely believe in their own falsifications and when they buy into
their own narrative. They stop being manipulators and they become believers in a narrative.
They become manipulated themselves." (Losing Military Supremacy – Andrei,
Martyanov)
Or maybe just the whole thing is a bluff. Those policy elites maybe just want to loot the
US Treasury for more cash to be put their way.
John Wright , September 15, 2019 at 19:15
The self-serving Israeli Zionists know that the American cow is running dry and their days
of freely milking it are coming to an end. They have an historic relationship with Russia
and, leveraging their nuclear arsenal, know they can make a deal with the emerging
China-Russia-centric global paradigm to extort enough protection to maintain their armed
enclave for the foreseeable future. Their no so hidden alliance with the equally sociopathic
Saudis will become even more obvious for all to see.
Israel, like China and Russia, knows how to play a long game. Thus, Israel will
consolidate its land grab with the just announced expansion into the Jordan Valley and
quietly continue as much ethnic cleansing as possible while the rest of the world is
preoccupied with the incipient global power shift (True victims of history, the Palestinians
have no real friends). While they will bemoan the loss of their muscular American stooge,
Israel enjoyed a very lucrative 70 year run and will part with a pile of useful and deadly
toys. They're also fully aware that no one else will ever let them take advantage to the
degree they've been able to with the U.S.A. (Unlimited Stupidity of Arrogance?)
Eventually, the social schizophrenia that is the state of Israel will catch up with them
and they will implode. Let's hope that breakdown doesn't involve the use of their nuclear
arsenal.
Yes, the U.S. Treasury will continue to be looted until the last teller turns the lights
out or the electricity is shut off, whichever comes first.
The Western transnational financial elites will accept their losses, regroup and make
deals with the new bosses where they can; but their days of running the game unopposed are
over.
Today is a good day to learn Mandarin (or Russian, if you prefer to live in Europe).
Bill , September 16, 2019 at 03:36
Very well said and I agree with a lot of what you say.
Tiu , September 14, 2019 at 06:01
Won't be too long before writing articles like this will get you busted for "hate-speech"
(e.g. anything that is contrary to the official version prescribed by the "democratically
elected" government) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/uk-tony-blair-think-tank-proposes-end-free-speech
Personally I always encourage people to read George Orwell, especially 1984. We're there, and
have been for a long time.
geeyp , September 14, 2019 at 01:15
Tony Kevin – Nice rundown of what ails society. You have a fine writing style that
gets the point across to the reader. Kudos and cheers.
Michael , September 13, 2019 at 22:34
The 'modernization' of the Smith Mundt Act in 2013 "to authorize the domestic
dissemination of information and material [PROPAGANDA] about the United States intended
primarily for foreign audiences" was a major nail in the Democracy coffin, consolidating the
blatant ruling of the US Police State by our 17 Intelligence Agencies (our betters). The
Telecommunications Act of 1996 lead to ownership of (>80%) of our media (the MSM by a
handful of owners, all disseminating the same narratives from above (CIA, State Department,
FBI etc) and squelching any dissenting views, particularly related to foreign policies.
Tony's article sadly just confirms the depth and breadth of our Global Stasi, with improved,
innovative and (mostly) subtle surveillance, and the controlling constant interference with
alternate viewpoints and discussions, the real basis for free societies. It is bad enough to
be ruled by neoliberal psychopathic hyenas and jackals, soon we won't be able to even bitch
about what they are doing.
Tom Kath , September 13, 2019 at 21:42
The most impressive article I have read in a very long time. I congratulate and thank
Tony.
I have myself recently addressed the issue of whether it is a virtue to have an "open mind".
– The ability to be converted or have your mind changed, or is it the ability to change
your own mind ?
Tony Kevin clearly illustrates the difference.
Litchfield , September 13, 2019 at 16:11
Great article.
Please keep writing.
Do start a website, a la Craig Murray.
There are people who are proactively looking for alternative viewpoints and informed
analysis.
How about starting a website and publishing some excerpts of your book there?
Or, sell chapters separately by download from your website?
You could also have a discussion blog/forum there.
John Zimmermann , September 13, 2019 at 16:02
Excellent essay. Thanks Mr. Kevin.
rosemerry , September 13, 2019 at 15:37
At least Tony Kevin was an Australian ambassador, not like Mike Morrell and the chosen
russop?obes the USA assumes are needed as diplomats!! Now he is treated as Stephen Cohen is-
a true expert called "controversial" as he dares to go by real facts and evidence, not
prejudice.
If instead of enemies, the West could consider getting to understand those they are wary
of, and give them a chance to explain their point of view and actually listen and reflect on
it.
(Dmitri Peskov valiantly explained the Russian official response as soon as the "Skripal
poisoning" story broke, but it was fully ignored by UK/US media, while all of Theresa May's
fanciful imaginings were respectfully relayed to the public).
geeyp , September 14, 2019 at 23:26
As you usually are with your comments, you are spot on again, rosemerry.
Martin - Swedish citizen , September 13, 2019 at 14:46
Excellent article!
I find the mechanics of how the propaganda is spread and the illusion upheld the most
important part of this article, since this knowledge is required to counter it.
When (not if) the fraud becomes more common knowledge, our societies are likely to
tumble.
Pablo Diablo , September 13, 2019 at 14:45
Whoever controls the media, controls the dialogue.
Whoever controls the dialogue, controls the agenda.
' The present risk of global nuclear war is as high as it ever was in the Cold War.' And
possibly higher. The Cold War, though dangerous, was the peace. The world has experienced
periods of peace (or relative peace) throughout history. The Thirty Years Peace between the
two Peloponnesian Wars, Pax Romana, Europe in the 19th century after the Congress of Vienna,
to name a few. The Congress System finally collapsed in 1914 with the start of World War One.
That conflict was followed by the League of Nations. It did not stop World War Two. That was
followed by the United Nations and other post-war institutions. But all the indications are
they will not prevent a third world war. The powers that are leading us towards conflagration
see this as a re-run of the first Cold War. They are dangerously mistaken. https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/
Guy , September 13, 2019 at 13:21
With so many believing the lies ,how will this mess ever come to light . I don't reside in
Australia but anywhere in the Western world the shakedown is the same .In my own house ,the
discussion on world politics descends into absolute stupidity . As one can't get past the
constant programming that has settled in the minds of the comfortable with the status quo of
lies by our media. There are intelligent sources of news sources but none get past the
absolutely complete control of MSM.So the bottom line is ,for now ,the lies and liars are
winning the propaganda war.
He speaks the truth. Liars and dissemblers have won over the minds and hearts of so many
lazy shameful citizens who will not accept the truth Tony Kevin wants to share with the
world.
Washington resumes military assistance to Kyiv. According to American lawmakers, Ukraine
is fighting one of the main enemies. "Contain Russia": what the US pays for Ukraine
Anyone or article who spells Kiev as Kyiv can be safely ignored as western anti-Russia
propaganda. It's a true tell.
Robert Edwards , September 13, 2019 at 12:53
The Cold war is totally manufacture to keep the dollars flowing into the MIC – what
a sham . and a disgrace to humanity.
Cavaleiro Marginal , September 13, 2019 at 12:52
"The key tools are repetition of messages, and diversification of trusted voices. Once a
critical mass is created of people believing a false narrative, the lie locks in: its
dissemination becomes self-sustaining."
This had occurred in Brazil since the very first day of Lula's presidency. Eleven years
late, 2013, a color revolution began. Nobody (and I mean REALLY nobody) could realize a color
revolution was happening at that time. In 2016, Dilma Rousseff was kicked from power
throughout a ridiculous and illegal coup perpetrated by the parliament. In 2018 Lula was
imprisoned in an Orwellian process; illegal, unconstitutional, with nothing (REALLY nothing)
proved against him. Then a liar clown was elected to suppress democracy
I knew on the news that in Canada and Australia the police politely (how civilized ) went
to some journalist's homes to have a chat this year. Canadians and Aussies, be aware. The
fascism's dog is a policial state very well informed by the propaganda they call news.
Robert Fearn , September 13, 2019 at 12:48
As a Canadian author who wrote a book about various tragic American government actions,
like Vietnam, I can relate to the difficulties Tony has had with his book. I would mail my
book, Amoral America, from Canada to other countries, like the US, and it would never arrive.
Book stores would not handle it, etc. etc.
Josep , September 17, 2019 at 05:21
Not to disagree, but some years ago I read about anecdotes of anti-Americanism in Canada,
coming from both USians and Canadians, whether it be playful banter or legitimate criticism.
I believe it is more concentrated among the people than among the governmental elites (with
the exception of the Iraq War era when both the people and the government were against it).
And considering what you describe in your book and the difficulty you've faced in
distributing it abroad, maybe the said people are on to something.
Stephen , September 13, 2019 at 11:44
This interview by Abby Martin with Mark Ames is a little dated but is a fairly accurate
history. I post it to try and counter the nonsense.
Outstanding article and analysis. Thank you Sir! Jeremy Kuzmarov
Jeff Harrison , September 13, 2019 at 10:17
Thank you, sir. A far better peroration than I could have produced but what I have
concluded nonetheless.
Skip Scott , September 13, 2019 at 10:10
Fantastic article. Left unmentioned is the origin of the west's anti-Russia narrative.
Russia was being pillaged by the west under Yeltsin, and Russia was to become our newest
vassal. Life expectancy dropped a full decade for the average Russian under Yeltsin. The
average standard of living dropped dramatically as well. Putin reversed all that, and enjoys
massive popular support as a result. The Empire will never tolerate a national leader who
works for the benefit of the average citizen. It must be full-on rape, pillage and plunder-
OR ELSE. Keep that in mind as we watch the latest theatrical performances by our DNC
controlled "Commander in Chief" wannabes.
Realist , September 17, 2019 at 05:48
?The ongoing success of the "Great Lie" (that Washington is protecting the entire world
from
anarchy perpetrated by a few bad actors on the global stage) and all of its false narrative
subtexts
(including but far from limited to the Maidan, Crimea, Donbass, MH-17, the Skripals,
gassing
"one's own people," piracy on the high Mediterranean, etc) just underscores how successful
was
the false flag operation known as 9-11, even as the truth of that travesty is slowly
being
unraveled by relentless truth-seekers applying logic and the scientific method to the
problem.
Most Americans today would gladly concur, if queried, that Osama bin Laden was most
certainly
a perfidious tool of Russia and its diabolical leader, Mr. Putin (be sure to call him "Vlad,"
to
conjure up images of Dracula for effect). The Winston Smith's are rare birds in America or
in
any of its reliable vassal states. Never mind that the spooks from Langley (and the late
"chessmaster") concocted and orchestrated all these tales from the crypt.
Lily , September 13, 2019 at 07:54
Great summary of the developement of a new cold war. The narrative of the Mainstream Media
is dangerous as well as laughable. I am glad to hear the Russian reaction to this bullshit
propaganda. As often the people are so much wiser than their government – at least in
the West.
During the Football WM a famous broadcaster of the German State TV channel ARD, who is a
giftet propagandist, regrettet publicly the difficulty to convince the stubborn Germans to
look at Russia as an enemy because they have started to look at Russia as a friend long
ago.
Contrary to the people and the big firms who are completely against the sanctions against
Russia and 100 % pro Northstream the German government with Chancelor Merkel is one of the
top US vassalles. Even the Green Party which started as an environmental and peace party are
now against North Stream and in favour of the filthy US fracking gas thanks to NATO
propaganda although Russia has never let them down. Most of "Die Grünen" party have been
turned into fervent friends of our American occupants which is very sad.
Thank you Tony Kevin. It has been great to read your article. I cant wait to read your
book 'Return to Moscow' and to watch your interview on CN Live.
Godfree Roberts , September 13, 2019 at 07:37
Good summary of the status quo. From my experience of writing similarly about China,
precisely the same policies and forces are at work.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov announced the end of the war in Syria and the
country's return to a state of peace. "Syria is returning to normal life": Lavrov announced
the end of the war
You hit several nails squarely on the head with your excellent article Tony. Thank you for
the truth of how the media is in Australia. It is indeed chilling where all this is leading.
The blatant lies just spewed out as fact by both ABC and SBS. They, in my opinion are nothing
but stenographers for the Empire, of which Australia is a fully subservient vassal state,
with no independence.
I try to boycott all Australian presstitutes . Oops, I mean 'media' now. Occasionally, I do
slip up and watch SBS or The Drum or News on ABC.
Virtually all my news comes from independent news sites like this one.
I have been accused of being a 'Putin lover', a Russian troll, a conspiracy theorist, while
people I know have claimed that "Putin is a monster whose murdered millions of people".
On and on this crap goes. And the end result? Ask Stephen Cohen. Things are very surreal now.
Sadly, you've been made an Unperson Tony.
Robyn , September 13, 2019 at 04:08
Bravo, Tony, great article. I enjoyed your book and recommend it to CN readers who haven't
yet read it.
The world looks entirely different when one stops reading/watching the MSM and turns to
CN, Caitlin Johnstone and many others who are doing a sterling job.
Cascadian , September 13, 2019 at 03:52
I don't know which is worse, to not know what you are (reliably uninformed) and be happy,
or to become what you've always wanted to be (reliably informed) and feel alone.
Realist , September 14, 2019 at 00:19
Knowing the truth has always seemed paramount to me, even if it means realising that the
entire world and all in it are damned, and deliberately by our own actions. Hope is always
the last part of our essence to die, or so they say: maybe we will somehow be redeemed
through our own self-immolation as a species.
Deb , September 13, 2019 at 02:54
As an Australian I have no difficulty accepting what Tony Kevin has said here. He should
do what Craig Murray has done start a website.
Blok says the Ukrainian side offered to "postpone" the exchange to give Dutch
prosecutors the opportunity to interview Tsemach again, and adds that this questioning
subsequently took place
Investigators directing the criminal probe into MH17's loss have previously identified
four individuals – three Russians and a Ukrainian, none of which is Tsemach – who
they are seeking to prosecute over the attack.
####
'interview again '. To repeat the f/king obvious, surely if there was sufficient
intelligence/evidence/coffee grounds/magda the gypsy/whatever, then Tsemach would have been
handed over. Did they honestly thing that having another crack at him would have
provided something? Weak as piss.
Of course the Pork Pie New Networks despite being rather more careful than usual in their
reporting of this are having their cake and eating it, i.e. not using phraes like '
smoking gun ' but happy with 'key witness' with no qualifier or anything to
back this up. The insinuation is there, but not the actual words. Spineless mofos.
They're just having so much fun with the ridiculous narrative that Russia moved behind the
scenes to ensure he was included in the prisoner swap – before you know it, the entire
exchange will have been engineered to get Tsemakh out of Ukrainian hands. Why? Well, you know
– where there's smoke, there's a crashed airliner, wink, wink.
Moscow never mentioned Tsemakh; if they sent Ukraine a list of prisoners recommended for
exchange, he was not on it. But the western media planted the seed that his inclusion in the
slate of transferred prisoners was owed to Russian pressure, and it just gets wilder as it
goes along.
I'd have thought that the Dutch investigators would try to persuade the Banderites to keep
Tsemakh in custody on the pretence that his life would be in danger if he were to be returned
to Russia, because Lord Vlademort would be displeased that Tsemakh might have let something
valuable slip from his lips, let alone be inconsiderate enough as to be arrested in the first
place.
Later on in the distant future, after Tsemakh has been transported to The Hague or Rome,
as the court case date draws near, or when Tsemakh is supposed to appear as a "witness" in
court, he can always suddenly and unexpectedly expire in prison from some hitherto
undiagnosed heart condition.
Ukraine released him on bail before the prisoner swap. Obviously they either considered him
an insignificant flight risk – given how difficult it must be to collect a bail bond in
Ukraine – or knew that he had no information which would be useful to anyone. They
might even be using him to spread disinformation in Russia, and all the teeth-grinding from
the west all for show, to make the bait sweeter. You never know. But under normal
circumstances, when a European country said "Jump", Ukraine's response would be "How high"?
If you read the accident investigation report, on page 239 it clearly states that the
Ukrainian army was active with heavy anti-aircraft installations in the eastern part of the
Ukraine. The Ukrainian army has BUK rockets of the type that downed MH17.
The Ukraine had the means and a motive, they should have been treated as a criminal
suspect, yet without further investigation they were promoted to member of the JIT that does
the criminal investigation
What democracy they are talking about? Democracy for whom? This Harvard political prostitutes are talking about democracy for oligarchs
which was the nest result of EuroMaydan and the ability of Western companies to buy assets for pennies on the dollar without the control
of national government like happen in xUSSR space after dissolution of the USSR, which in retrospect can be classified as a color revolution
too, supported by financial injection, logistical support and propaganda campaign in major Western MSM.
What Harvard honchos probably does not understand or does not wish to understand is that neoliberalism as a social system lost its
attraction and is in irreversible decline. The ideology of neoliberalism collapsed much like Bolsheviks' ideology. As Politician like
Joe Boden which still preach neoliberalism are widely viewed as corrupt or senile (or both) hypocrites.
The "Collective West" still demonstrates formidable intelligence agencies skills (especially the USA and GB), but the key question
is: "What they are fighting for?"
They are fighting for neoliberalism which is a lost case. Which looks like KGB successes after WWIII. They won many battles and
lost the Cold war.
Not that Bolsheviks in the USSR was healthy or vibrant. Economics was a deep stagnation, alcoholism among working class was rampant,
the standard of living of the majority of population slides each year, much like is the case with neoliberalism after, say, 1991. Hidden
unemployment in the USSR was high -- at least in high teens if not higher. Like in the USA now good jobs were almost impossible to obtain
without "extra help". Medical services while free were dismal, especially dental -- which were horrible. Hospitals were poor as church
rats as most money went to MIC. Actually, like in the USA now, MIC helped to strangulate the economy and contributed to the collapse.
It was co a corrupt and decaying , led by completely degenerated leadership. To put the person of the level of Gorbachov level of political
talent lead such a huge and complex country was an obvious suicide.
But the facts speak for themselves: what people usually get as the result of any color revolution is the typical for any county
which lost the war: dramatic drop of the standard of living due to economic rape of the country.
While far form being perfect the Chinese regime at least managed to lift the standard of living of the majority of the population
and provide employment. After regime change China will experience the same economic rape as the USSR under Yeltsin regime. So in no
way Hong Cong revolution can be viewed a progressive phenomenon despite all the warts of neoliberalism with Chenese characteristics
in mainland China (actually this is a variant of NEP that Gorbachov tried to implement in the USSR, but was to politically incompetent
to succeed)
CHENOWETH: I think it really boils down to four different things. The first is a large and diverse participation that's
sustained.
The second thing is that [the movement] needs to elicit loyalty shifts among security forces in particular, but also other
elites. Security forces are important because they ultimately are the agents of repression, and their actions largely decide
how violent the confrontation with -- and reaction to -- the nonviolent campaign is going to be in the end. But there are other
security elites, economic and business elites, state media. There are lots of different pillars that support the status quo,
and if they can be disrupted or coerced into noncooperation, then that's a decisive factor.
The third thing is that the campaigns need to be able to have more than just protests; there needs to be a lot of variation
in the methods they use.
The fourth thing is that when campaigns are repressed -- which is basically inevitable for those calling for major changes
-- they don't either descend into chaos or opt for using violence themselves. If campaigns allow their repression to throw
the movement into total disarray or they use it as a pretext to militarize their campaign, then they're essentially co-signing
what the regime wants -- for the resisters to play on its own playing field. And they're probably going to get totally crushed.
Wai Sing-Rin @waisingrin • Aug 27
Replying to @ChrisFraser_HKU @edennnnnn_ and 2 others
Anyone who watched the lone frontliner (w translator) sees the frontliners are headed for disaster. They're fighting just
to fight with no plans nor objectives.
They see themselves as heroes protecting the HK they love. No doubt their sincerity, but there are 300 of them left.
"... Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has long pushed for Kiev to investigate Vice President Joe Biden's attempt in 2016 to get the country's top prosecutor removed at a crucial moment during an ongoing investigation into Burisma Holdings -- the Ukrainian natural gas company advised at the time by Biden's son Hunter. ..."
"... As the The New York Times reported previously, during the final year of the Obama presidency, Vice President Joe Biden "threatened to withhold $1 billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine's leaders did not dismiss the country's top prosecutor" -- Viktor Shokin -- "who had been accused of turning a blind eye to corruption in his own office and among the political elite." ..."
Also interesting is that Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has long pushed for
Kiev to investigate Vice President Joe Biden's attempt in 2016 to get the country's top
prosecutor removed at a crucial moment during an ongoing investigation into Burisma Holdings --
the Ukrainian natural gas company advised at the time by Biden's son Hunter.
As the The New York Times
reported previously, during the final year of the Obama presidency, Vice President Joe Biden
"threatened to withhold $1 billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine's leaders did
not dismiss the country's top prosecutor" -- Viktor Shokin -- "who had been accused of turning
a blind eye to corruption in his own office and among the political elite."
Crucially last week Giuliani was reported to have again raised the issue with Ukrainian
officials , according to CNN
.
As CNN cynically put it in its
latest report , this suggests "the former New York mayor is making a renewed push for the
country to investigate Trump's political enemies."
But then again maybe it's as simple as the US not actually having a deep national security
interest in propping up Ukraine's military at a moment when international missile treaties with
Russian are unraveling and the war in Donbass is at a bloody stalemate.
The looming potential for a controversial cut in aid to Ukraine will make Trump's upcoming
meeting with still relatively new "political outsider" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy set for
next week all the more interesting. A final decision on the military aid is expect after this
crucial meeting.
More reason for Pappy Biden to pull out of race. Now he does not stand a chance to defeat
Trump because Hunter corruption in Ukraine and China will be center stage during election.
Obviously "lock them up " will be the battle cry. With China's latest backpedaling on tariff
retaliation, Trump can only be defeated from within Republican party by new impeachable
revelations.
Wait, so does the US still want to split China and Russia?
At G7 Macron and Trump both were talking up Putin and wanting to allow Russia back into
G8.
Then i read another interesting article about Macron inviting Putin to France:
"The dynamics of the New
Cold War might undergo a dramatic transformation if the geopolitical game-changer of a
“New Detente” between Russia and the West succeeds, which is becoming
increasingly possible as proven by recent events.
President Putin’s meeting earlier this week with his French counterpart in Paris
saw Macron repeatedly emphasizing Russia’s European
identity in a clear sign that this rapprochement is making visible progress. Macron is
motivated to play the role of mediator between the US and Russia for two main reasons, namely
that he wants to position France as a possible replacement to inevitably post-Merkel Germany
as the EU’s leading country and also to reach an accommodation with Moscow in Africa
after the completion of the country’s “
African Transversal ” earlier this summer
began to
threaten Paris’ interests in the continent. Putin responded extremely positively and reminded Macron of their
two Great Powers’ decades-long shared desire to forge “a common Europe from
Lisbon to Vladivostok”, reaffirming that Russia regards itself more as a European
country than a “Eurasian” or Asian one, which has important implications for
International Relations.
Both the Mainstream and Alternative Medias
had hitherto exaggerated the nature of the Russian-Chinese Strategic Partnership for their
own reasons, with the former wanting to portray it according to the paradigm of the so-called
“Russian threat” in order to justify a more muscular American military buildup
against them while the latter imagined that the two were “allies” jointly working
together without any disagreements whatsoever in order to accelerate the emerging Multipolar
World Order that would presumably be “anti-American”. The reality of their
relations is a lot less sexy and it’s that Russia was pushed into reorientating its
strategic focus as a result of the West’s anti-Russian sanctions following
Crimea’s reunification, which served as the catalyst for Moscow’s decision to
embrace Beijing. Russia probably wouldn’t have undertaken this move had it not been for
American pressure, but it felt compelled to since it didn’t want to remain a
“junior partner” in the US’ “New World Order”, instead
endeavoring to return to its historical role as a Great Power among equals.
In pursuit of this, it’s much easier for Russia to simply reintegrate into a
reformed “New World Order” than to build an entirely new one from scratch
alongside China, which is why the possibility of a “New Detente” is so enticing
to its leadership, though provided of course that the West is sincere in finally treating
Russia as an equal Great Power"
BASTARDS! If i had a DIME for every time Obama EXPLOITED vulnerable Americans for his road
and pony show I would be a rich woman.
I'll never forget Obama interview in prison with a few younger African American kids.
Talkin to then as if he knew what they were going through. His black *** raised WHITE and who
had ZERO clue what it was to live black and supporting the very oppressive system that jailed
them in the first place. All that after he bailed out banks and then QE under the Fed for his
wealthy CITI, Goldman and *** friends.
This background text was prepared in the context of the Kuala Lumpur MH17 Conference
entitled MH17: The Quest for Justice, organized by JUST, the PGPF and the CRG.
The underlying objective is to examine the evidence, reveal the truth and uphold the rule
of law.
Today, August 17th 2019, our thoughts are with the families of the victims of the
Malaysian Airlines MH17 tragedy. The Conference is dedicated to the memory of the
victims.
It is also a national tragedy for the people of Malaysia. The downing of MH17 with 283
passengers and 15 crew on board, took place barely a few months following the mysterious
disappearance of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 after departing on March 8, 2014 from Kuala
Lumpur for Beijing, with 227 passengers and 12 crew members on board.
It is worth recalling that immediately after the MH17 plane crash on July 17 2014, prior
to the conduct of a preliminary investigation, Secretary of State John Kerry and US Ambassador
to the UN Samantha Power pointed their finger at Moscow without a shred of evidence. In turn,
the allegations directed against Russia were used to justify the imposition of sweeping
economic sanctions against the Russian Federation.
The level of "experts" is pretty dismal. While some quotes are apt, the general level is horrible for such an important
topic., Not a single one put Putin career in context of ascendance of neoliberalism from 1990 to 2007 and then crash and decline
with the USA economics entering the period of secular stagnation. not a single one.
Most of those are neocons or some king of imperialists who believe in God given right for the USA to dominate the globe. That's
another problem.
Notable quotes:
"... Henry Kissinger : Starting with American support for the Orange Revolution in Ukraine in 2004, Putin has gradually convinced himself that the U.S. is structurally adversarial. By “structural,” I mean that he may very well believe that America defines its basic interest as weakening Russia, transforming us from a potential ally to another foreign country that he balances with China and others. ( The Atlantic, 11.10.16 ) ..."
"... Thomas Graham and Rajan Menon : In Moscow’s reading, the United States had masterminded the revolution [in Ukraine] to install a pro-Western figure as president over the candidate endorsed by Putin. Putin soon came to view the revolution in Ukraine as a dress rehearsal for regime change in Russia itself. ..."
"... In Putin’s view, the United States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further. ( The Washington Post, 02.05.15 ) ..."
Henry Kissinger : Starting with American support for the Orange Revolution in
Ukraine in 2004, Putin has gradually convinced himself that the U.S. is structurally
adversarial. By “structural,” I mean that he may very well believe that America
defines its basic interest as weakening Russia, transforming us from a potential ally to
another foreign country that he balances with China and others. (
The
Atlantic, 11.10.16 )
Thomas Graham and Rajan Menon : In Moscow’s reading, the United States had
masterminded the revolution [in Ukraine] to install a pro-Western figure as president over the
candidate endorsed by Putin. Putin soon came to view the revolution in Ukraine as a dress
rehearsal for regime change in Russia itself. Putin believed it was part of the United
States’ larger effort to construct a unipolar world based on its values and interests, a
world that it could dominate with little regard for other major powers. In response Putin began
working to fortify Russia against Western influence and interference. (
The Boston
Review , 09.12.17)
Steven Pifer : Putin sees Russians & Ukrainians as one people. Said so in
Kyiv in 2013. Does not understand he thereby denies Ukrainian history, culture. (
Twitter ,
05.26.17)
Roger McDermott and Stephen Cimbala : Putin’s actions in Crimea were not
entirely sui generis : They were preceded by a context of demands upon Russia from
its post-Cold War military and geostrategic setting, compared to that of the Soviet Union.
Putin’s policy is not the result of psychodrama. It is the product of his having lived
in strategic history and his (and our) understanding of that history. (
The Journal of Slavic
Military Studies , 10.14.16)
Anatol Lieven : Russia’s restraint in Ukraine shows that there is no
serious reason to fear that Mr. Putin is ready to create a new, worse international crisis by
attacking the Baltic states or Poland. (
New York Times ,
03.18.16)
Steven Pifer : A weak Ukrainian government incapable of meeting the challenges
before it ensures that the Maidan model will have little attraction for the Russian populace.
This consideration could mean that Mr. Putin wants a failed Ukrainian state. (
Testimony before U.S.
Senate , 03.04.15)
Fiona Hill and Clifford Gaddy : The logic of sending weapons to Ukraine seems
straightforward and is the same as the logic for economic sanctions: to change Vladimir
Putin’s “calculus.” … We strongly disagree [with calls on the West to
provide military support to Ukraine]. The evidence points in a different direction. If we
follow the recommendations of this report, the Ukrainians won’t be the only ones caught
in an escalating military conflict with Russia. (
The Washington Post, 02.05.15 )
Fiona Hill and Clifford Gaddy : Our problem is that we do not fully understand
Putin’s calculus, just as he does not understand ours. In Putin’s view, the United
States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to
weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian
armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial
sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been
transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any
concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further. (
The Washington Post, 02.05.15 )
The net result on Ukrainian independence was the dramatic rise of political influence of western Ukraine which was suppressed in
the USSR. under Yutchenko they came to power and they regained it after Yanukovich demise. And their interests and their
desire to colonize Eastern Ukraine do not correlate will with the desires of the Eastern Ukrainian population. So Ukraine
remains a divided country with the differences being patched by continuing war in Donbass. So in way continuation of the
war is in the best political interests of Western Ukrainian nationalists. Kind of insurance which simplify for them to stay in
power. While politically they lost in recent Presidential elections the presence of paramilitary formations ensure that they
still have considerable political power including the power of veto.
Whether hardship inflicted on population after EuroMaydan will eventually help to restore the balance and raise political
influence of Eastern Ukraine because Western Ukrainian nationalists are now completely politically discredited due to the dramatic
drop in the standard of living after EuroMaydan is difficult to say. In any case Ukraine now is a debt slave and vassal of the
USA with the USA embassy controlling way to much to consider Ukraine to be an independent country. Few countries manage to dig
themselves out of this hole.
For such countries rise of anti-colonial movement is a possibility, but paradoxically Western Ukrainian nationalists side
with colonial power representing in a way fifth column (and they did played the role of fifth column during EuroMaydan giving
power to rabid neoliberals like Yatsenyuk, who was essentially an agent of the USA, who wanted to privatize everything for
cents on the dollar as long as he and his circle get cramps from it, ordinary Ukrainians be damned ). Understanding that the USA is
the most dangerous partner to have, in many ways no less dangerous then Russia is still pending for the Ukrainian neoliberal elite,
part of which ( Kushma, Victor Pinchuk) clearly are plain-vanilla
compradors.
Notable quotes:
"... Three decades of Ukrainian independence have brought little in the way of economic development or other strong reasons to embrace a Ukrainian identity. At the same time, Russia has become a far more prosperous, orderly place that exudes confidence and power since Vladimir Putin came to power. Millions of eastern Ukrainians have gone to Russia as guest workers – and more recently as war refugees . Today, the Ukrainian diaspora in Russia is by far the world's largest. ..."
"... The western regions of Ukraine, on the other hand, were part of European states like Austria-Hungary and Poland until World War II, when they were annexed by the Soviet Union. Now, people overwhelmingly speak Ukrainian as their first language, take a suspicious (and historically grounded) view of Russia, and tend to look west for their inspiration ..."
"... Millions of Ukrainians go to Poland and beyond as guest workers, and their impressions help to fuel the certainty that Ukraine needs to seek a European future. ..."
"... Not coincidentally, the enthusiasm and conviction of western Ukrainians have disproportionately driven two pro-Western revolutions on the Maidan in Kyiv in the past 15 years, with little visible support from populations in the country's east. ..."
"... "People in the western Ukraine are different from us. It's not just language, or anything simple like that. They took power away from a president our votes elected, and they want to rip us out of our ways, abandon our values, and become part of their agenda," says Maxim Tkach, regional head of the Party of Life, the pro-Russian group that was the front-runner in parliamentary elections here in Mariupol. ..."
"... "When they started that Maidan revolution, they said it was about things we could support, like fighting corruption and ending oligarchic rule. But none of that happened. They betrayed every single principle they had shouted about. Instead, they want us to change the names of our streets and schools, honor 'heroes' like Stepan Bandera that our ancestors fought against. These are things we can't accept. ... ..."
"... "If there had been no Maidan, we would still have Crimea. There would have been no war. There would be no pressure on us to change our customs, our language, or our church . It was this aggressive revolution, by just part of the country, that caused these problems," he says. "Russia is Russia. It is acting in its own interests, but why do we need to antagonize it?" ..."
"... But while the two nearby separatist statelets, the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, may be backed by Russia, they emerged from deep local roots. That is a clear observation from one of the most exhaustive studies of the war to date, Rebels Without a Cause , published last month by the International Crisis Group. ..."
"... The war has done great and possibly irreparable damage to Ukraine's economy , and the longer it continues, the harder it may be to ever reintegrate the former industrial heartland of Donbass with the rest of the country. ..."
"... Mr. Tkach, the regional party head, says the idea of victory is a dangerous chimera, and what most people around here want is peace and restoration of normal relations with Russia. ..."
"... "Of course we need to negotiate directly with" the rebel republics, he says. "These are our people. We understand them. Perhaps we need a step-by-step process, in which they are granted some special status. What would be wrong with that? They have also suffered, had their homes shelled by Ukrainian forces, lost their loved ones. Trust needs to be restored, and that might take some time." ..."
"... But he is adamant that those territories need to be recovered for Ukraine. "The task before us is to bring them back to Ukraine, and Ukraine to them. It must be accomplished through compromise and negotiation, because everyone is tired of war. Once we have done this, and have peace, then we can talk about Crimea." ..."
"... Mr. Tkach says so too. "We wish Zelenskiy well, but we really doubt that he can make peace happen. Our party has the connections and the right approach, and we think it will be necessary to bring us into the process." He's talking about dealing with the Russia that exists just across the Sea of Azov and a few miles down the road ..."
Almost every conversation in Ukraine these days will touch upon the grinding, seemingly endless war in the eastern region of Donbass.
People speak of overwhelming feelings of pain and weariness. And they express near-universal hopes that the new president, Volodymyr
Zelenskiy, will finally do something to end it.
Here in Mariupol, where the front line is a 10-minute drive from downtown, those conversations tend to be intense.
But depending on whom you talk to, the path to peace can look very different.
Much of the population around here speaks Russian, is used to having close relations with nearby Russia, and can't imagine any
peace that would impose permanent separation. Many people have family, friends, and former business associates living just a few
miles away on the other side of the border. More than half of voters in the Ukrainian-controlled part of Donetsk Region, of which
Mariupol is the largest city, expressed those instincts in July 21 parliamentary elections by voting for two "pro-Russian" political
parties. Both of them would like to forge a peace on Moscow's terms and return at least this part of Ukraine to its historical place
as part of the Russian sphere of influence.
But there are also many who espouse an emerging Ukrainian identity, who see the 2014 Maidan "Revolution of Dignity" as a breaking
point that gave Ukraine the chance to escape the grasp of autocratic Russia and embrace a European future. They want nothing to do
with Russian-authored peace plans, say there is no alternative to fighting on to victory in the Donbass war, and want to
quarantine Ukraine from its giant neighbor – at least until Russia changes its fundamental nature.
Despite the two groups' shared desire for peace, their starkly different visions for what that peace would entail could prove
a major obstacle for ending the war in eastern Ukraine.
Looking east, looking west
These divisions are rooted in Ukrainian history. The country's eastern regions have been part of Russian-run states for over 300
years. Three decades of Ukrainian independence have brought little in the way of economic development or other strong reasons to
embrace a Ukrainian identity. At the same time, Russia has become a far more prosperous, orderly place that exudes confidence and
power since Vladimir Putin came to power. Millions of eastern Ukrainians have gone to Russia as guest workers – and more recently
as
war refugees . Today, the Ukrainian diaspora in Russia is by far the world's largest.
The western regions of Ukraine, on the other hand, were part of European states like Austria-Hungary and Poland until World War
II, when they were annexed by the Soviet Union. Now, people overwhelmingly speak Ukrainian as their first language, take a suspicious
(and historically grounded) view of Russia, and tend to look west for their inspiration. In 1990, living standards in Ukraine and
Poland were about equal. Since Poland joined the European Union in 2004, its living standards have doubled and it has become a vibrant
European state. Millions of Ukrainians go to Poland and beyond as guest workers, and their impressions help to fuel the certainty
that Ukraine needs to seek a European future.
The Party of Life, of which local businessman Maxim Tkach is a regional head, argues that peace can be achieved in eastern
Ukraine only by following a Russia-favored plan for the region.
Not coincidentally, the enthusiasm and conviction of western Ukrainians have disproportionately driven two pro-Western revolutions
on the Maidan in Kyiv in the past 15 years, with little visible support from populations in the country's east.
"People in the western Ukraine are different from us. It's not just language, or anything simple like that. They took power away
from a president our votes elected, and they want to rip us out of our ways, abandon our values, and become part of their agenda,"
says Maxim Tkach, regional head of the Party of Life, the pro-Russian group that was the front-runner in parliamentary elections
here in Mariupol.
"When they started that Maidan revolution, they said it was about things we could support, like fighting corruption and ending
oligarchic rule. But none of that happened. They betrayed every single principle they had shouted about. Instead, they want us to
change the names of our streets and schools,
honor 'heroes' like Stepan Bandera that our ancestors fought against. These are things we can't accept. ...
"If there had been no Maidan, we would still have Crimea. There would have been no war. There would be no pressure on us to change
our customs, our language, or
our church . It was this aggressive revolution, by just part of the country, that caused these problems," he says. "Russia is
Russia. It is acting in its own interests, but why do we need to antagonize it?"
"The majority who want to be Ukrainian"
Maria Podibailo, a political scientist at Mariupol State University and head of New Mariupol, a civil society group founded to
support the Ukrainian army, offers a completely different narrative. She originally came from Ternopil in western Ukraine and has
made Mariupol her home since 1991.
She says there were no separatist feelings in Mariupol, or the Donbass, until after the Maidan revolution when Russian agitators
started traveling around eastern Ukraine, spreading lies and stirring up moods that had never existed before. Local pro-Russian oligarchs
wielded their economic power to support separatist groups, while passive police and security forces allowed Russian-led separatists
to seize public buildings and hold anti-Ukrainian protests in Mariupol. It wasn't until the arrival of the Ukrainian army – first
in the form of the volunteer Azov Battalion – that the separatists were driven out and the front line was pushed back from the city
limits in 2014, she says.
"That is why we support the army, and only trust the army," she says.
Ms. Podibailo's university-sponsored opinion surveys in 2014, after the rebellion began, found that a three-quarters majority
of local people supported a future as part of Ukraine, not Russia. That majority was subdivided into several visions of what kind
of Ukraine it should be, but only 12% wanted to join Russia, and 8% wanted Donbass to be an independent republic – a point often
overlooked in the simplistic pro-Russian versus pro-Western scheme in which these events are frequently portrayed.
"That's when we knew we were on the right track," she says. "We were not a beleaguered minority at all. We were part of the majority
who want to be Ukrainian."
But while the two nearby separatist statelets, the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, may be backed
by Russia, they emerged from deep local roots. That is a clear observation from one of the most exhaustive studies of the war to
date,
Rebels Without a Cause , published last month by the International Crisis Group.
"We cannot talk to the leaders of these so-called republics. How could we possibly trust them?" says Ms. Podibailo. Her view is
that, after victory, the population of the republics should be sorted out into those who collaborated with the enemy and those who
were innocent victims, as happened after World War II.
"There is no way for this war to end other than in Ukrainian victory. I have never heard of a war that ends leaving things the
same way, or just through some talks. People say it might take a long time, and the threat will last forever because we have such
a neighbor.
"But we have the United States behind us, we have the West behind us, and they are attacking Russia from the other side with sanctions.
We will win," she says.
"These are our people"
Mr. Tkach, the regional party head, says the idea of victory is a dangerous chimera, and what most people around here want
is peace and restoration of normal relations with Russia.
"Of course we need to negotiate directly with" the rebel republics, he says. "These are our people. We understand them. Perhaps
we need a step-by-step process, in which they are granted some special status. What would be wrong with that? They have also suffered,
had their homes shelled by Ukrainian forces, lost their loved ones. Trust needs to be restored, and that might take some time."
But he is adamant that those territories need to be recovered for Ukraine. "The task before us is to bring them back to Ukraine,
and Ukraine to them. It must be accomplished through compromise and negotiation, because everyone is tired of war. Once we have done
this, and have peace, then we can talk about Crimea."
One of the leaders of the Party of Life – which came in a distant second in the national parliamentary elections – is Ukrainian
oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk, who has strong connections to the Kremlin and whose daughter has Mr. Putin as her godfather. Attending
the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum along with Mr. Putin this spring, Mr. Medvedchuk was introduced as "a representative
of the Ukraine that can make a deal."
Mr. Tkach says so too. "We wish Zelenskiy well, but we really doubt that he can make peace happen. Our party has the connections
and the right approach, and we think it will be necessary to bring us into the process." He's talking about dealing with the Russia
that exists just across the Sea of Azov and a few miles down the road.
It's very sad that Ukraine is just a pawn in dirty geopolitical games of the USA, the EU and Russia.
Notable quotes:
"... In 3-5 years we could have an interesting scenario in Ukraine with land (its main wealth) owned by foreign investors and a large % of population with Russian or Polish and other EU passports. As always with ideology, the result is the exact opposite of what that ideology claims: the dictatorship of proletariat impoverished and killed proletariat, Nazis dramatically shrunk German lebensraum, liberals obsession with ' liberty and universal brotherhood ' is leading to censorship, suppression and group hostilities. But here we are and the ideological idiocy that Maidan-Ukrainians embraced might not be reversible. This is not good for anybody. ..."
"... For Ukraine these are all irreversible losses, but from Western perspective, these are little victories: Russia was forced to spend more. As the West does not give a hoot about Ukraine, the US and its vassals can freely celebrate these victories. ..."
"... So, it all depends on the point of view. The West never cared about aborigines, so their point of view does not come into its calculations. ..."
"... Currently prevailing mood in Russia is that Ukraine, whoever is the power there, gets nothing, nada, zilch. ..."
"... But Ukrainian authorities worked pretty hard to achieve it, and now Ukraine has to live with this new reality. It won’t be pretty. The US was simply following its standard policy: leave a pile of shit, declare victory, and leave, waiting for someone else to clean up. ..."
"... Now there is only one way Russia would clean up: if the EU pays full price for it. As this is unlikely, the aborigines are going to bear the brunt of the consequences. ..."
miscalculation that the rotten West will help them instead of use them to create a
festering sore on Russian border for just a few billion dollars in loans.
A possibly a fatal miscalculation for Ukraine, but there is also an ideology involved. In
Maidan-Ukrainians case that ideology is Ukrainian nationalism combined with a servile Western
worship of almost cargo-cult level. An odd combination that has led to odd result.
West wanted Zelensky to win, the question is why. Tactically, Zelensky neutralized large
Russia-leaning block of voters: the 70% vote would have gone somewhere and they were not
going to vote for Poroshenko or Tymoshenko. So that misdirection was successful. But what was
the point?
Let's look at what Zelensky is actually doing (not the throw-away comedy and
rhetoric): he is trying to allow sale of Ukrainian land to foreign investors. My guess is
that he will push it through and that will his main legacy. Buying up Ukrainian arable land
has been a wet dream for many in the West since 1991. Zelensky could deliver on it, and then
move on.
In 3-5 years we could have an interesting scenario in Ukraine with land (its main wealth)
owned by foreign investors and a large % of population with Russian or Polish and other EU
passports. As always with ideology, the result is the exact opposite of what that ideology
claims: the dictatorship of proletariat impoverished and killed proletariat, Nazis
dramatically shrunk German lebensraum, liberals obsession with ' liberty and universal
brotherhood ' is leading to censorship, suppression and group hostilities. But here we
are and the ideological idiocy that Maidan-Ukrainians embraced might not be reversible. This
is not good for anybody.
Why does the Saker think that Ze had any choice? He is a puppet, a stuffed shirt brought to
”power” by Kolomoisky and allied oligarchs. The only goal was to chase Porky and
allied thieves from the trough to be able to steal more.
Now, the people of Ukraine had choice. But they blew it again, like many times before:
each Ukrainian “president” is worse than his predecessor. As the saying goes,
“fool me once, shame on you…” Ukrainians let themselves be fooled six
times already, so there is no doubt where the shame goes.
It was said that the nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel. But it isn’t the
only one. Nationalism, stupid unrealistic dreams to feed sheeple, fairy tales about
aggression, and the war create perfect smokescreen for blatant thievery. It continues
unabated, ever since 1991.
Russia does need to make its choice. But it is complicated by the role of Russian thieves
(polite word is oligarchs) in current Russian state. Putin kicked some out. The remaining
ones have enough brains to figure that they need a strong state to protect them, lest their
loot be stolen by Western thieves. So, they are a step ahead of Ukrainian thieves who did not
tumble even to this simple realization. But no more than one step ahead.
The economic reality is that Russian state does not have the resources to restore Ukraine,
even if sane forces come to power there. So, Ukraine would likely keep festering, losing
millions of working age people (like today), possibly losing chunks of territory (as the joke
has it, whoever remains in Ukraine pays off the debt). The problems of that huge Somalia can
only be solved by concerted effort of many European countries and Russia. This is not on the
cards, at least not until Ukies create yet another Chernobyl. Then the EU might decide to
send its US overlords to Hell and pay Russia to take the hand grenade away from the monkey. I
don’t think Putin will live long enough to see that happen.
…EU might decide to send its US overlords to Hell and pay Russia to take the hand
grenade away from the monkey.
How would EU go against its overlord? Even if EU would try, the existential nihilism in
Kiev will prevent compromise. Ideologues can’t admit that their ‘idea’
didn’t work, they prefer destroying everything around. West is also at this point
incapable of admitting an error – they literally can’t do it, the lying has to go
on. That means that even groundwork for any possible compromise can’t be put in place.
This is all the way down with fireworks and it won’t be pretty.
There is such a thing as a catastrophic error and the last 5 years in Ukraine comes pretty
close to it. That is not really fixable. The monkey night as well use the grenade.
Minsk agreement was an incredibly generous deal, if Poroshenko had half a brain he would
had jumped on it and today Donbas would be a remote backwater with autonomy.
That would be true if Porky was interested in Ukraine. As it is, his only interest and
loyalty was and is his personal loot. To keep stealing, he (and allied thieves) needed the
smokescreen of war, fairy tales of “aggression”, and pipe dreams of “greater
Ukraine” for the sheeple. He succeeded in his thievery for five years. Now another gang
of thieves pushed his gang from the trough. End of story.
Are you a teenager unaware of the history of the Maidan regime-change
“revolution?” Here are two most influential Ukranian parties-participants in the
“revolution:” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
The Svoboda Party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine … It
is widely considered a fascist..party….
Time has described it [the Right Sector Party] as a “radical right-wing group
… a coalition of militant ultra-nationalists” with an ideology that
“borders on fascism”.
Die Welt, The New York Times, and Le Monde Diplomatique have described some of
Right Sector’s constituent groups as radical right-wing, neofascist, or
neo-Nazi…
You are a pessimist (or a fatalist). I agree that EU is shamefully subservient to the US,
but when some of their core interests are at stake, even slavish EU can show some teeth. Just
think of Nord Stream-2: the US is jumping out of its skin to damage this project, but Germany
stands remarkably firm.
From Western point of view, Ukie provocation was not a complete failure (even though
it’s a catastrophic failure from Ukrainian point of view): Russia had to spend a lot to
develop the production of military things it used to import from Ukraine, like ships, ship
engines, helicopter engines, spaceship control systems, etc.
Now that it acquired the
capability to produce these things, there will be no going back regardless who rules Ukraine:
it’s industries that used to export to Russia are doomed. These include such giants as Nikolaev shipbuilding plant, Motor Sich in Zaparozie, Antonov aircraft building plant in Kiev,
etc. The same goes for transit.
It is not just natural gas transit everybody talks about.
Russia used to transport ammonia to Odessa, where it was partially exported and partially
converted into fertilizers. The plant that used to do that is dead.
Ukraine tried to sell it
for $5 billion under Yanuk and got no takers, about a year ago it tried to sell it for 10% of
that price, and got no takers again.
There also used to be substantial Russian payments for
transport via the railway going across Eastern Ukraine.
Russia built an alternative bypassing
Ukraine, so they might as well dismantle the rails on their route.
For Ukraine these are all
irreversible losses, but from Western perspective, these are little victories: Russia was
forced to spend more. As the West does not give a hoot about Ukraine, the US and its vassals
can freely celebrate these victories.
So, it all depends on the point of view. The West never cared about aborigines, so their
point of view does not come into its calculations.
That’s true, when it comes to resources, there are always alternatives how to spend
them.
Currently prevailing mood in Russia is that Ukraine, whoever is the power there, gets
nothing, nada, zilch.
Considering how closely Ukrainians are related to Russians, this feat
wasn’t easy.
But Ukrainian authorities worked pretty hard to achieve it, and now Ukraine
has to live with this new reality. It won’t be pretty. The US was simply following its
standard policy: leave a pile of shit, declare victory, and leave, waiting for someone else to
clean up.
Now there is only one way Russia would clean up: if the EU pays full price for it. As
this is unlikely, the aborigines are going to bear the brunt of the consequences.
Saker is naive and badly educated. It is stupid to call Ukraine an oligarchy. All countries on Earth are oligarchies.
The real question is which group of oligarchs is in power. In case of Ukraine those are privatization sharks, the worst kind
of neoliberal financial scum. Often real criminals.
Otto von Bismarck created a powerful German state which exists to this day. While vassal of the USA it is still a state
now. And Merkel role in EuroMaidan definitely reminds Drang
nach Osten in neoliberal packaging. Neocolonialism in its pure form
Ukraine is just a pawn in a bigger geopolitical game of the USA and EU against Russia. That explains in the current state of
Ukrainian economics and the level of Ukrainian population sufferings. Ukrainian
nationalist paradoxically served as the fifth column for the neoliberal oligarchy. The phenomenon similar to the US
nationalists role under Trump.
At the same time despite dismally low standard of living Ukrainian population is showing great resilience in the current
hardships and infrastructure while completely worn out still works. But Ukraine is now completely Latin-Americanized, which was
the goal of the USA from the very beginning for all Soviet space. Ukraine now is a debt slave of the West which
is completely opposite to any nationalist movement goals.
According to
Wikipedia just
5% of population lives of less than $5.50 a day. That's baloney. In reality the percentage is probably two-three times times
higher (average monthly pension is typically less then $1500 grivna which is less then $60) so most of pensioners live on
less then $2 a day. 8 million of the approximately 12 million of Ukrainian pensioners were receiving the minimum pension of
1312 (around $50) while medium pension amounted to 1886 UAH (Pensions
in Ukraine - Wikipedia) And 12 million is 28% of Ukrainian population (around 42-43 million total down from 45.55 before
EuroMaydan ). It is declining around 200 persons daily. On average there are 462,052 births and 662,571 deaths in Ukraine
per year.
While pensioners are definitely starving the situation at least stabilized with grivna around 25 per dollar (something like
300% after the EuroMaydan). So Nuland advantures cost dearly for average Ukrainian.
Notable quotes:
"... These guys are a minority, a pretty small one even, but they have enough muscle and even firepower to threaten any nominal Ukrainian leader. ..."
As I have indicated in a recent article , the Ukraine is not a
democracy but an oligarchy : ever since 1991 the most prosperous Soviet republic
was mercilessly plundered by an entire class (in the Marxist sense of the word) of oligarchs
whose biggest fear has always been that the same "horror" (from their point of view) which
befell Russia with Putin, would eventually arrive at the Ukraine.
Here we need to make something clear: this is NOT, repeat, NOT about nationality or
nationalism. The Ukrainian oligarchs are just like any other oligarchs: their loyalty is to
their money and nothing else. If you want to characterize these oligarchs, you could think of
them as culturally "post-Soviet" meaning that they don't care about nationality, and even
though their prime language is Russian, they don't give a damn about Russia or Russians (or
anybody else, for that matter!). Since many of them are Jews, they have a network of
supporters/accomplices in Israel of course, but also in the West and even in Russia. In truth,
these guys are the ultimate "internationalists" in their own, toxic, kind of way.
Some fine specimens of "ochlocrats"
The other significant force in the Ukraine is the West Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi
death-squads and mobs. Their power is not a democracy either, but an ochlocracy .
These guys are a minority, a pretty small one even, but they have enough muscle and even
firepower to threaten any nominal Ukrainian leader.
Can you stop with the Ukronazi crap, what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish
President ?
Azov guys dying in Donbass and the street thugs in Kiev are just cannon fodder, they don't
run shit
The majority of Ukranians don't want to be in this conflict, I don't see the point in
demonizing all of them because of some fascist larpers
People need to move on from the past and stop all that hating others for some past deeds.
Polish or Western Ukrainian hatred for Russians, Russian hatred for Germans, Chinese &
Korean hatred for the Japanese, Indian hatred for the British or the Chinese, Black South
African hatred for Afrikaners. All these are counter productive for the people and are
emotions which can be whipped up by the elites to have commoners die like cannon fodder at
worst or to take away attention towards a past historic enemy to hide their own corruption/
incompetence at best.
People need to see things from the other side as well.
As far as the Satanic Zio elite pigs, they will use any ideology as long as it serves
them. Democracy, Communism, anti-Communism, Islamic fundamentalism, anti-Islam, Jingoistic
Nationalism, Anti-Nationalism/One Worldism, feminism, Hindutva, Buddhist fundamentalism (Sri
Lanka BBS and the secret Zionist hand), Neo-Conservatism, Leftism, Colonialism,
anti-Colonialism as long it suits them. They use them and discard them away when needed. But
this seems to be the most extreme case ever. For the first time the Zio elites are using
National Socialism as an ideology to serve them. The ideology which was probably the greatest
enemy and threat to the Zio elites, in human history. Freakin crazy!!!
More grist for Saker's suckers. The Galicians (and Ukro-Nazi Jews) are behind
everything. In Saker's simplistic mind the Galicians have infiltrated all of Ukrainian
society and run the whole show, when in fact this is just a bunch of nonsense. Well, at least
Saker is putting to use his favorite Ukrainian pejorative do I really need to repeat it
again, ad nauseum?
"The other significant force in the Ukraine is the West Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi
death-squads and mobs."
Where are death camps for the Jews? Where are racial laws that expel non-Ukrainians? Where
is the propaganda of eugenics and healthy lifestyle? Where are construction projects bringing
in jobs, and state-subsidized recreation tours?
Ukraine is a Jew-driven shithole that has nothing to do with National Socialism. They
don't even honour the sacrifice of the SS Galizien.
"but what they are genuinely fantasizing about is the territory, and only the territory.
As for the 2 million-plus virulently anti-Nazi people currently living on these lands, they
simply want them either dead or expelled)."
A lie. Currently, more than a half of those "expelled" have migrated inside Ukraine. A
stark contrast to Croatia where the Serbs were driven out of the country, and their land
given to Croats.
Again, Ukraine is suicidal and full of civic nationalism, nothing about it is
blood-based.
"They and their Polish supporters want Russia to break apart in numerous small state-lets
which they (or, in their delusional dreams, the Chinese) could dominate."
Why do you consider this as a negative for the Russian people? The current Russian state
is in its death throes as much as the US and France – the ethnic Russians are dying
out, fleeing and being replaced. Any alternative might prove out more hopeful.
"In contrast, the LDNR forces seem to be doing pretty well, and their morale appears to be
as strong as ever (which is unsurprising since their military ethos is based in 1000 years of
Russian military history)."
I have to remind you that the Donbass was colonized far more recently than Ukraine –
in the 18-19th centuries. What "ancient" traditions?
"but Novorussia also is a never healing wound in the side of Nazi-occupied Ukraine"
The Donbass has never been part of Novorussia which is to the west, from Dniepropetrovsk
to Odessa. Admittedly, Novorussia's colonists were mostly from Ukraine – it is clearly
seen on the language maps.
"The problem with this slogan is that there is simply no way the (relatively small)
Galician population can ever succeed in permanently defeating their much bigger (and,
frankly, much smarter) Jewish, Polish or Russian neighbors."
Khmelnitsky managed to do just that – 100k dead Jews. And he's on the Ukrainian
currency. Too bad modern "Nazi" Ukrainians have elected a Jew President. This is not the
Khmelnitsky uprising, this is Kiev under the Khazar Khaganate before Oleg came from the
North.
It's a of nonsense as usual. This piece is quickly refuted:
ever since 1991 the most prosperous Soviet republic
People who spread this myth are ignorant or liars. It's a common one, though.
In 1990 Ukraine's per capita GDP was $1570.
Russia's was $3485.
Belarus was $2124.
So in Soviet times, Ukraine was the poorest of the three Slavic Soviet Republics. It still
is, the position hasn't changed. It's just fallen further behind.
::::::::
Everything else is just as nonsensical, I won't even bother to detail it, most of the
commenters here are as dumb/ignorant/dishonest (take your pick) as the author pretends to
be.
I don't know where Saker sources his history. Lenin had nothing to do with the creation of
Ukraine.
I live in Western Canada, where Ukrainians come starting in the late 19th century. I'm not
referring to the primarily German speaking Mennonites that left South Central Ukraine, in the
1870s, fleeing religious persecution. By WWI, more than 200,000 were in Western Canada from
all parts of Ukraine. They considered themselves Ukrainians, not Russians, or Galicians. They
were, and to a great extent, still are Ukrainian nationalists. There continues to be friction
with Polish and German local populations, although prior to the "rebirth" of Ukraine, it had
largely subsided. Recent Russian immigrants are shunned as much as the "Poles" and "Germans".
Politically, they are generally left of center, and have been since their arrival, although
in recent decades more have become "conservative" (whatever that means these days). A long
ago former Russian Jewish co-worker who was a late 60s "escapee" from the USSR, told me that
he would never vote for one of our political parties, because there were "too many
Ukrainians" in the party. I asked a "Ukrainian" friend, who I had known since grade school,
what that meant. His explanation was that there had always been tensions between Jews and
Ukrainians, for centuries, because of what Ukrainians believed was exploitation by the Jews.
Other "Ukrainians" and "Jews" have confirmed this.
The reality is, that most people in most countries just want to live their lives in peace,
with a job good enough to provide a decent home and food for the family. That 70% of
Ukrainians want that is not surprising, it's normal. That doesn't mean they aren't
nationalists, and it doesn't mean they are Nazis. However screwed up they are in trying to do
so, Ukrainians are struggling to retain their identity and culture. IMO, they are up against
internationalist forces from all sides, and none are interested in letting that happen.
@Curmudgeon
The Nazi name-calling is over the top, and not just with regard to Ukraine or Galicia.
Historical grievances or revisions are not 'Nazism'. Too many people look at Ukraine and
over-interpret the nostalgia for Bandera or simple national self-assertion.
But I think Saker is right about where this is going. Russian side has local dominance and
that will not change. The only game in town for the last 5 years has been to see if the
Western squeeze of Russia will work faster than the Russian squeeze of Ukraine. By now it is
obvious that it won't.
Kiev has made some fatal mistakes. E.g. Minsk agreement was an incredibly generous deal,
if Poroshenko had half a brain he would had jumped on it and today Donbas would be a remote
backwater with autonomy . So? The state would be intact, taxes would be paid,
passports centrally issued, etc The eastern European dynamic is that any population always
ends up disliking its immediate rulers – how long before local leaders in Donbas would
be challenged by some younger corruption fighters.
The whole Maidan thing was also terribly mismanaged – at its core it was about
getting the best potential deal for Ukraine with EU (and Russia). In the middle of the
negotiation suddenly Maidanistas decided that symbols are more important than reality and
basically folded in front of EU. Consequently Russia walked. Thus Kiev got justa bout the
worst possible combination on non-EU and deep hostility with Russia. Smarter guys would had
handled it much better, playing both sides against each other – raising the stakes.
And let's not even get started on Crimea, while Ukies ate stale cookies, they lost
overnight their most valuable possession – they couldn't anticipate it? Being able to
anticipate is a key to intelligence and in playing any game.
So we can talk about what or who is driving modern Ukraine, oligarchs, Galicians, Jews,
Kiev thugs, Canadians – it doesn't matter, what matters is that they are incompetent.
From Yushenko to Zelensky they are amateurs driven by emotion and greed. There is no
state-forming force, there is no true Ukrainian nationalism that would play up Ukraine's
strengths and manage its weaknesses. Saker is basically right – they are in a no-win
cul-de-sac, at this point any move will make their situation worse. Their best (only?) hope
is a collapse of Russia. Now, how likely is that?
@Felix
Keverich Autism of this degree does not pop out of nowhere
You had Cossacks and Mercenaries from the Ukraine joining up with the Poles, Swedes,
Napoleon, Germans and others. Calling diaspora nationalists stupid is all fine and dandy but
the constant bickering between people in current Ukraine and in Russia stinks of divide and
conquer (which is what Ukraine vs Russia conflicts always were)
Calling them stupid and calling their ethnicity fake(which they make an actual effort to
preserve, such as it is) stinks of hypocrisy when so many Great Russians were willing to tear
their country, religion and people apart in 1917 and join up with the Bolsheviks in the rape
and pillaging
You'd probably get far more progress calling them a branch of Russian civilization, you
can cite Belarus and Siberian Ukraine as examples
It's easy to dogpile on some poor Hohol since they will always be on the defensive, but it's
much harder to understand him and admit your own faults while not backing down from your
standpoint that you are both one people
Serbs often made the same mistakes with Montenegro, and the result is the modern day
shitfest where both it and Ukraine are run by hostile US puppets
The Saker is correct that reality and pragmatism are essential 'when trying to figure out
what is going on and what might happen next.' It is a hard calculation to make in a world
increasingly chaotic and dark. The Minsk Accord is probably the only glimmer of light for
Ukraine, but then all the lights – across the world – are going out. https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/
However screwed up they are in trying to do so, Ukrainians are struggling to retain
their identity and culture. IMO, they are up against internationalist forces from all
sides, and none are interested in letting that happen.
What you posted is called a generic "to be against everything bad, for everything good".
Living in a world of unicorns and having rainbows as result of bowel movement is, of course,
a worthy aspiration but reality with Ukraine is a teeny-weeny bit more complicated than mere
attempts to "retain their identity and culture". I'll give you a hint, vast swaths of
Ukrainian population (including in the East Ukraine) believe, as an example, that Ukrainian
civilization precedes a Sumerian one. Many, very many, also still believe that valiant
Ukrainian Armed Forces still fight, for the 5th year in a row, mighty Russian Army in the
East. We are talking here about down right mental breakdown on a national level, granted, as
I always say, modern Ukraine did happen, that is coalesced, as a political nation.
In the thirteenth century, both the Ukrainians and the Russians faced more dire threats
than each other.
In the 13th century there were no Ukrainians or Ukraine. There was Russia though, Rus'.
Imagine a US state becoming independent today, from the rest of the US.. like Ohio.. and
people are going to say "the first man on the moon was an Ohioan (Armstrong), not an
American. Sorry, doesn't work like that..
You have to admit that's an impressive combination.
Yes, but it wasn't the Saker who invented it; it does seem to reflect what's going on
there. My only criticism is that he has given more prominence to the Nazis than the Jews,
unless we consider "oligarchs" as a synonym for Jews.
Like you have said in the past he is taking the Russian side. I think it's a fairly good
analysis of the situation if you go beyond his propagandistic terminology and what he leaves
unsaid. Russia really doesn't want to engage directly in the conflict but its best policy
would be to bide its time and to encourage more pro-Russian separatism in Odessa and all
other regions along the coast so as to eventually cut off Ukraine from access to the sea
altogether. That would serve Russian interests best and strengthen its position against NATO,
the EU, and the rump Ukraine, for whatever is to follow. It's a shame for any real Ukranian
nationalists but then they should have been smarter than to join all those colour revolutions
on Maidan organised by the CIA, Soros, Jewish oligarchs, etc.
That's a frozen conflict for now. Let's have another article on UR about the latest from
the US sponsored colour revolution in Hong Kong and what are the best measures that PR China
can take to quell the riots. And it's about time they took back Formosa, but it won't be as
easy as the Russian takeover of Crimea, unless they can send a million Red Army guards there
disguised as tourists to stage a silent putsch.
@Bardon
Kaldian Neonazis is a good term for the people used in the Ukrainian ZUS coup. That is
the people that was used to gain control of Ukraine for ZUS.
This coup in Ukraine, woke me up.
V. Nuland's war cry to bless the coup was "F–k The EU"
She used Neonazis to take over Ukraine.
Wait. She is Jewish. I guess the 6 million story must be bogus. She admitted it, since if
the 6 million story was real. She would have a great fear of a tidal wave of anti-S'ism
overcoming her and her people. She had no fear. Thus, the 6 million story was proved to be
false by V. Nuland. Thanks V. Nuland for freeing the world of that nightmarish propaganda
that has saddled humanity for seventy odd years.
Secondly, she told the world the reality of J. Supremacism by stating " F..k the EU". The
world thought that ZUS loved the EU as its sister in world domination. I guess not. Would V.
Nuland ever say "F..k Israel"? I think not.
Thanks V. Nuland. A new Queen Esther or Queen Victoria.
Yep, agree with Saker – I lived there before , during and now after the Maidan and he's
spot on with most of everything – he has been, since the beginning. Zelinsky has a
dozen or more bosses and he has Zero experience in what he's doing. . Zionist Bankers and
their arms dealers, Nato, Banderas gang,Washington, US Navy, Monsanto/Bayer, Royal Dutch
{shell oil }, Dupont, Lilly Pharma, Cargill, and the list could go on. He'll be lucky if he
isn't in Diapers by the time his term is up, otherwise he will be rich. I see that
Poroshanster is being called out for taking 8 billion bucks out of Ukie-Ville. I wonder how
much Trump and his family will end up stealing?. Thanks Unz Review.
Thus Kiev got justa bout the worst possible combination on non-EU and deep hostility
with Russia. Smarter guys would had handled it much better, playing both sides against each
other – raising the stakes.
As usual, you nailed it Beckow.
Also, Saker often misunderstands things but he is right that Ukraine is in a one way street
mainly because of the out-of-this-World miscalculation that the rotten West will somehow help
them instead of use them to create a festering sore on Russian border for just a few billion
dollars in loans. It is the rest of Ukraine, excluding Donbas, that will have to pay off
these war loans already stolen by the oligarchs.
@Commentator
Mike I recall that at the time of the Zionist coup (We do remember Ms Noodleman's : "fuck
the EU" don't we?) Ukrainian Nazi's were a leading force in kicking things off.
@Mr.
Hack "In Saker's simplistic mind the Galicians have infiltrated all of Ukrainian society
and run the whole show, "
This was not what I read.
The Saker said that oligarchs and Nazi militia groups have enough power to impose their will
and their agenda on the rest of the population.
When I see words like "Nazis" in relation to Ukrainians, I know that article is sh!t
& not worth reading.
This is because you don't know what Raguli(stan) is and you cannot possibly know, because
there are no "books" written yet which would encapsulate this whole phenomenon. Of course,
Ukies have no relation to Fichte and Volkskrieg. Other than that you will find an attentive
audience among local ignoramuses.
Former Ukrainian presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko trace to Steele dossier is a real shocker.
Notable quotes:
"... On December 5, 2016, Bruce Ohr emailed himself an Excel spreadsheet, seemingly from his wife Nellie Ohr, titled " WhosWho19Sept2016 ." The spreadsheet purports to show relationship descriptions and "linkages" between Donald Trump, his family and criminal figures, many of whom were Russians. ..."
"... If you want to have more fun, search the pdf using the term "BAYROCK." You will discover that Nellie Ohr, like a female Don Quixote, is searching desperately to link Trump and Sater to dirty Russian money. What she does not suspect is that Sater was being used, via his company Bayrock, to try to gain access to Russians who were potential targets of the FBI. ..."
"... What is not emphasized in the piece, and it is something I want to direct you to, is that the idea or impetus to launch the investigation of Butina came courtesy of Christopher Steele, who was relaying rumor and conjecture to Bruce Ohr. ..."
"... FBI Director Christopher Wray reminds me of one of the workers in the bowels of the Titanic who was furiously shoveling coal into the doomed boilers of the sinking ship. The FBI, like the Titanic, is in trouble. ..."
"... It also gave immunity to all of the people on Hillary's team that participated in obstruction of justice. On that same day, Jim Comey signed off on a separate memo that decided not to prosecute Hillary Clinton. ..."
"... Larry..Fusion GPS has always refused to Reveal who where its Financial support came from... ..."
"... So..the Timeline Indicates Fusion GPS was hired by The "Washington Free Beacon" around October 2015 to background checks and Profiles of The Republican Candidates for President.and that Fusion GPS continued to do so until May 2016..when it became clear that Donald Trump clinched the Nomination.. ..."
"... I wonder why AG Barr isn't forcing the FBI to comply sooner with Judge Boasberg's ruling to hand over unredacted Comey Memos and Archey Declarations? ..."
"... So what did Barack Obama know, and when did he know it? ..."
"... Nellie Ohr was working for a privately-owned firm that had employed her to make false accusations about Trump's alleged connections to Russians in order to sabotage his presidency and lay the groundwork for his impeachment. ..."
"... They also hired foreign agent, Chris Steele to concoct a thoroughly-debunked dossier for the same purpose. ..."
"... Can these people be charged with a crime or have we entered a new world of 'dirty tricks'??? ..."
"... Examination of the Nellie Ohr documents given to the FBI shows some of her source material also came from former Ukrainian presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko and a lawsuit she filed against Manafort. ..."
"... So, Bruce Ohr became a conduit of information not only for intelligence from Clinton's British opposition-researcher but also from his wife's curation of evidence from a Clinton foreign ally and Manafort enemy inside Ukraine. Talk about foreign influence in a U.S. election! ..."
"... The lines between government officials and informants, unverified political dirt and real intelligence, personal interest and law enforcement, became too blurred for the Justice Department's own good. ..."
There are many moving pieces in the drama surrounding the Deep State attempt to kill the Trump Presidency. God Bless Judicial
Watch. I think most of the key evidence that has surfaced came courtesy of Tom Fitton, Chris Farrell and their team of tireless workers.
I want to bring you back to
Mr. Felix Sater . He was part of Bayrock, which worked closely with Donald Trump's organization and, most importantly of all,
was an FBI Confidential Human Source since December of 1998.
Thanks to Judicial Watch we have a new dump of Bruce Ohr emails, which include several from his wife, Nellie. There are 330 pages
to wade thru (you can
see
them here ). There
is one item in particular I encourage you to look at:
On December 5, 2016, Bruce Ohr emailed himself an Excel spreadsheet, seemingly from his wife Nellie Ohr, titled "
WhosWho19Sept2016
." The spreadsheet purports to show relationship descriptions and "linkages" between Donald Trump, his family and criminal figures,
many of whom were Russians. This list of individuals allegedly "linked to Trump" include: a Russian involved in a "gangland
killing;" an Uzbek mafia don; a former KGB officer suspected in the murder of Paul Tatum; a Russian who reportedly "buys up banks
and pumps them dry"; a Russian money launderer for Sergei Magnitsky; a Turk accused of shipping oil for ISIS; a couple who lent their
name to the Trump Institute, promoting its "get-rich-quick schemes"; a man who poured him a drink; and others.
The spreadsheet starts on page 301. If you search the document for the name Felix Sater, he will pop up. Now here is the curious
and, I suppose, reassuring thing about this document--Nellie Ohr did not have a clue that Felix Sater was an active FBI informant.
We can at least give the FBI credit for protecting Sater's identity from Nellie Ohr and, more importantly, her husband, DOJ official
Bruce Ohr.
If you want to have more fun, search the pdf using the term "BAYROCK." You will discover that Nellie Ohr, like a female Don
Quixote, is searching desperately to link Trump and Sater to dirty Russian money. What she does not suspect is that Sater was being
used, via his company Bayrock, to try to gain access to Russians who were potential targets of the FBI.
One point is clear--she uncovered no evidence implicating Trump working with the Russians, either thru Felix Sater or one of the
other "suspects" she exhaustively listed.
Shifting gears, there are two very important pieces recently posted at The Conservative Tree House that I encourage you to read:
What is not emphasized in the piece, and it is something I want to direct you to, is that the idea or impetus to launch the
investigation of Butina came courtesy of Christopher Steele, who was relaying rumor and conjecture to Bruce Ohr.
You can find this information in the
Bruce
Ohr 302s that Judicial Watch also secured. Marina Butina was unfairly and unjustly portrayed and prosecuted as a Russian intelligence
agent. It was a damn lie.
I do not ever want to hear another American complaining about an American State Department or CIA employee who is entrapped and
unfairly prosecuted in Russia.
We have done the same damn thing that we have accused the Soviets of doing. The same thing. It is shameful.
The
second piece is the ultimate feel good piece. Kudos to its author, Sundance.
He details how a Federal Judge, infuriated by the FBIs stupidity and mendacity, tells the Bureau to go pound sand. The FBI is
frantically trying to prevent the Archey Declarations from being revealed thanks to a lawsuit brought by CNN (finally, CNN did something
right).
The Archey Declarations provide a detailed description of the memos written and illegally removed from FBI Headquarters by that
sanctimonious twit, Jim Comey. More shoes will be dropping in the coming days.
It appears that Inspector General Horowitz is going to present at least one report on Jim Comey and one report on the FISA abuse
by the FBI.
FBI Director Christopher Wray reminds me of one of the workers in the bowels of the Titanic who was furiously shoveling coal
into the doomed boilers of the sinking ship. The FBI, like the Titanic, is in trouble.
Finally, Gateway Pundit's Joe Hoft put up an important piece today (
see here ). Here is the bottomline, and keep this in mind as you read the piece, on June 20, 2016 the FBI signed off on a deal
with Hillary Clinton's attorney's that gave Hillary's team the right to destroy computers and emails.
It also gave immunity to all of the people on Hillary's team that participated in obstruction of justice. On that same day,
Jim Comey signed off on a separate memo that decided not to prosecute Hillary Clinton.
The fix was in more than a month before Jim Comey appeared on camera to try to explain why he was not recommending prosecution
of Hillary for putting Top Secret information on her unclassified server.
Jim Comey lied when he declared that could not prove "intent."
I am sure that those of you who have never held a clearance and handled Top Secret material probably believed that lie.
But anyone who knows how the TS system is set up knows that the ONLY WAY, I repeat, the ONLY WAY to put TS material on an unclassified
server is to do so intentionally. There is no way to do this mistakenly.
Jim Ticehurst said in reply to Jim Ticehurst... ,
Larry..Fusion GPS has always refused to Reveal who where its Financial support came from...
So..the Timeline Indicates
Fusion GPS was hired by The "Washington Free Beacon" around October 2015 to background checks and Profiles of The Republican Candidates
for President.and that Fusion GPS continued to do so until May 2016..when it became clear that Donald Trump clinched the Nomination..
creating Phase 2..Operations..
"The Washington Free Beacon ".Has an Editor in Chief ..who is William Kristols Son In Law..And William Kristols ..Father....Irving
Kristol..is Called..."the God Father of Neo Conservatism". William Kristol..was a John McCain supporter..
Thus Fusion GPS..retained Nellie Ohr..(strangly..NO Wiki Profile) who apparently had to Use her husbnd Bruce Ohrs Clearances,,to
continue Her Collaberation with Fusion GPS..
By June 2016 the Strategy was to bring in Christopher Steele..who was know to Bruce Ohr back to 2006.. Strange.. NO early life
BIOS for Bruce or Nellie Ohr..
I wonder why AG Barr isn't forcing the FBI to comply sooner with Judge Boasberg's ruling to hand over unredacted Comey Memos
and Archey Declarations?
The Gateway Pundit item about the ridiculously unfair and unethical deals made in Hillary Clinton's email scandal investigation
is just further proof of how the Clinton taint infected the FBI. "Crooked" is a very apt epithet, that's for sure. I'd love to
know how much Bill and Hill raked in during her Sec'y. of State racketeering.
You say: "One point is clear--she uncovered no evidence implicating Trump working with the Russians, either thru Felix Sater or
one of the other "suspects" she exhaustively listed."
This is true, but it is also true that Nellie Ohr was working for a privately-owned firm that had employed her to make
false accusations about Trump's alleged connections to Russians in order to sabotage his presidency and lay the groundwork for
his impeachment.
They also hired foreign agent, Chris Steele to concoct a thoroughly-debunked dossier for the same purpose.
Can these people be charged with a crime or have we entered a new world of 'dirty tricks'???
... Examination of the Nellie Ohr documents given to the FBI shows some of her source material also came from former Ukrainian
presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko and a lawsuit she filed against Manafort.
Why is that significant? Tymoshenko and Hillary Clinton had a simpatico relationship after the former secretary of State
went out of her way in January 2013 to advocate for Tymoshenko's release from prison on corruption charges.
So, Bruce Ohr became a conduit of information not only for intelligence from Clinton's British opposition-researcher
but also from his wife's curation of evidence from a Clinton foreign ally and Manafort enemy inside Ukraine. Talk about foreign
influence in a U.S. election!
...
The tales of Bruce and Nellie Ohr, Christopher Steele, Yulia Tymoshenko, and those DEA and TSA agents raise a stark warning:
The lines between government officials and informants, unverified political dirt and real intelligence, personal interest
and law enforcement,
became too blurred for the Justice Department's own good.
The person responsible for securing the release of Yulia Tymoshenko was Chancellor Merkel. Further, that USA opposed Tymoshenko.
quote
As for one of the leaders of the war party in Kiev, Merkel has privately and publicly endorsed every claim of Yulia Tymoshenko,
promoting her release from prison and protecting her campaigns for war against Russia, even though – according to the high-level
German source – “they [Chancellery, Foreign Ministry] have known for years that [Tymoshenko] was a crook.”
endquote
There is a lot more detail Tymoshenko's corruption and Merkel's rescue here:
KIEV: Ukraine 's gas transport company
Ukrtransgaz has upgraded several gas pumping stations so it can provide gas to eastern and
southern regions of the country if there is a disruption in supply from Russia, the company
said on Wednesday.
More than a third of Russia's gas exports to the European Union cross
Ukraine, providing Kiev with valuable transit income.
Ukraine traditionally uses some of the gas pumped by Russia to European consumers for its
own needs in eastern and central regions and then compensates for this by deliveries from gas
storage located in the west of the country.
But the Russia-Ukraine gas transit agreement is due to expire in January and Ukrainian
energy authorities are worried that Moscow could stop gas supplies
through Ukraine, leaving some Ukrainian regions without gas in winter.
"As of today, Ukrtransgaz has implemented all the necessary technical and regulatory
solutions to create a reliable reverse scheme and it is ready for regular operation and can be
activated immediately if necessary," Uktransgaz said in a statement.
It said Ukraine had already reversed gas flows in 2009 when Russian gas giant Gazprom halted gas
supplies to Ukrainian consumers because of a price dispute.
Last month, Russian energy minister and several sources said Russia wanted to strike a
short-term deal with Kiev on gas transit to Europe when the current 10-year agreement expires
to buy time to complete pipelines that will bypass Ukraine.
But Kiev and its European allies want guarantees that Ukraine will remain a transit route
for Russian gas to Europe.
In January, European Commission Vice President Maros Sefcovic floated a proposal for the two
countries to agree a new 10-year transit contract, with a guaranteed minimum yearly transit
volume of 60 bcm and 30 bcm of additional flexibility.
Ukraine's energy firm Naftogaz said last month Kiev was still counting on Sefcovic's
proposal.
The potential for problems with the transit agreement, which brings Kiev around $3 billion
revenue per year, prompted Ukraine to increase its winter gas reserves by 18% compared with
last year to 20 billion cubic meters (bcm).
Naftogaz said this week Ukraine had stored 16.6 bcm of gas by Aug. 10, up from 13.38 bcm at
the same time last year.
Ukraine consumed 32.3 bcm of gas in 2018, 10.6 bcm of which was imported from European
markets outside Russia.
Relations between Kiev and Moscow plummeted after Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea
peninsula in 2014.
Ukraine halted its own purchases of Russian gas in 2015.
KIEV (Reuters) - Detectives from Ukraine's state investigation bureau have summoned former
president Petro Poroshenko for questioning, the bureau said on Thursday.
"We confirmed that he will be questioned," a bureau spokesman said. He declined to give a
reason for the questioning, which will take place on July 17. A spokeswoman for Poroshenko had
no comment but said one might be available later.
James, 26 days ago
I am in Ukraine every year and all people know that Poroshenko used the war to make money. He
created companies that were then used by the Government to buy military equipment and
everyone knows this and waited for the opportunity to have him voted out. Most people here
want only to have a stable government that works for the people, but president after
president they put their hope in has only turned out to become wealthy at the expense of the
people.
There is hope that the new president will enact "real" reforms and government
acquisition reform that gives all businesses an fair opportunity to compete for work.
Poroshenko never got rid of the corrupt judicial officials that enabled crooks to keep doing
what they were doing.
James, 26 days ago
One has to wonder which Western/NATO intelligence agency Poroshenko represented. It was not
for the benefit of representing Ukraine or Russia that is for sure.
Bamboo, 26 days ago
Gee. It looks like the USA has lost its puppet regime. Is Joe Biden's son still getting a
piece of the Ukrainian Pie?
Peter, 26 days ago
Here's a question for poroshenko. What happened to the millions the US gave him to help the
people of his country?
THE AMERICANO, 26 days ago
And a very nice arrest warrant will magically appear out of no where IF he shows up.
David, 26 days ago
I'm wondering if poroshenko was smart enough to request an american passport as a part of
compensation for pushing the country into the democracy?
26 days ago
Poroshenko is a failure of the West meddling in another country's affair for the sole purpose
of hurting Russia.
26 days ago
A person who led Ukraine to prosperity, fighter with corruption, liberator from Russia, and
he is being questioned? How come? :-) I hope you get the sarcasm.
"... Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo", his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and the seizure of power. ..."
"... In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the Euromaidan protests in 2014. ..."
"... I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it, what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor fired. ..."
Poroshenko has asked the US for help with criminal cases in the Ukraine, writes
media
05:31
MOSCOW, 1 Jul – RIA Novosti.The former President of the Ukraine Petro
Poroshenko is in Istanbul, where he has turned to American companies to lobby for protection
from criminal cases, reports "
Ukraine News " with reference to sources.
It has been noted that in the Ukraine changes have been made as regards the criminal
cases against Poroshenko. In particular, in May 2019, the former-president's lawyer Igor
Golovan stated that these criminal cases would not entail any legal consequences, but now
Poroshenko's entourage realizes that the criminal prosecution of the former president has
noticeably intensified and may have consequences.
Therefore, according to the newspaper, in Turkey Poroshenko has started to lobbying
U.S. companies, in particular, the BGR group, for assistance in resolving these
cases.
"He is well aware that everything that happens in the RRG (State Bureau of
investigation – trans. ed.) is taken very seriously, and he intends to defend himself
against attacks. He can, for example, be expecting public support in Washington if there is
an attempt made to arrest him", said the source.
In addition, the publication cites the words of Ukrainian political scientist Alexei
Yakubin, who has noted that Poroshenko could repeat the "Saakashvili scenario".
"For example, he'll leave for treatment in London, where part of his entourage has
entrenched itself. But this model complicates the public protection of his business assets
within the country, which assets might be seized", he said.
The case against Poroshenko
Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards
his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo",
his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial
power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in
the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and
the seizure of power.
In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the
Euromaidan protests in 2014.
Poroshenko himself, speaking at the party congress of "European Business", said that he
is responsible only before the Ukrainian people and is not afraid of persecution.
Quite right, old man; keep your chin up. I daresay they're staying in quite prestigious digs
in Istanbul, as befits visiting royalty. He seems to be labouring under a misapprehension
that he is valuable somehow to Washington, whereas that would only be true if Washington were
unwilling to work with Zelenskiy, and wanted him out of the way.
So far as I can see,
Washington is quite satisfied with Zelenskiy, while the people would not countenance a
Poroshenko return. So he's not really much use, is he? Especially if the USA wishes to
publicly support Zelenskiy's supposed battle with official corruption.
I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it,
what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I
would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious
interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor
fired.
Yes, I was sort of getting at the probability that Clan Poroshenko is just installed in a
very nice hotel. I doubt he will want to be plunking down money for an actual property so
long as the status of his assets still in Ukraine is still up in the air. I should imagine
the Ukrainian government will take steps, if it has not already, to prevent his simply
withdrawing their cash value.
The thing about the pindosi, though, is that they always hedge their bets .
I vangize that they will pressure Zel to pardon Porky. So that they have a spare.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.
I doubt it, simply because it would kick the timbers right out from under Zelenskiy's
anti-corruption platform, which is the issue on which he was voted in, and there would be no
way to do it under the radar. The Ukrainian people must be following Porky's flight with
great interest, and inferring that it means he has something to hide. Therefore an abrupt
discontinuing of the pursuit, and a refocusing elsewhere, would tell them accountability is
not attributed to the powerful and wealthy. Which is uhhh exactly the opposite of Zelenskiy's
message.
A person who led Ukraine to prosperity, fighter with corruption, liberator from Russia, and he is being questioned? How come?
:-) I hope you get the sarcasm.
Former president of
Ukraine Petro Poroshenko went to the United Arab Emirates and Germany together with his family.
The politician's family had to use two planes to leave the country.
It is known that ex-president's wife Marina left Kiev for Munich on July 23 together with
her daughters and younger son Mikhail. Petro Poroshenko himself flew on a charter flight from
Kiev to Istanbul along with his eldest son Alexei. According to Izvestia newspaper, the former
head of state then took a flight to Dubai with the same board.
Petro Poroshenko has citizenship of five countries despite the ban for Ukrainian citizens to
have dual citizenship. The ex-president got several identification documents for different
names back in 1996.
"... The newly released documentary directed by Yana Yerlashova together with independent Dutch investigator Max van der Werff proves beyond a doubt that Ukraine and its Western partners did all that they could to cover up the true cause of MH17's tragic downing half a decade ago, introducing new evidence and testimonies that cast serious doubt on the "official" narrative of what really took place on that dreadful day. ..."
"... " MH17 – Call For Justice " sheds light on the dark truth of what happened immediately after the plane's downing, with journalist John Helmer's summary of the 28-minute-long documentary pointing out the key takeaways for those who don't have the time to watch it in full. The video powerfully includes a brief interview with Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir, who had earlier spoken out about the cover-up and reaffirms that Russia was blamed for what happened even before any information was conclusively known about the incident. ..."
"... The Prime Minister of Malaysia Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad also revealed that the West tried to prevent his country's meaningful involvement in the investigation, which is extremely scandalous, to say the least. The Malaysians weren't going to be deterred in their quest for justice, however, as the documentary includes a testimony from Colonel Mohamad Sakri , the head of the Malaysian team, disclosing that he secretly took a small team to Donetsk to gather evidence from the site after Poroshenko's officials originally blocked them from doing so. ..."
The newly released documentary directed by Yana Yerlashova together with independent
Dutch investigator Max van der Werff proves beyond a doubt that Ukraine and its Western
partners did all that they could to cover up the true cause of MH17's tragic downing half a
decade ago, introducing new evidence and testimonies that cast serious doubt on the "official"
narrative of what really took place on that dreadful day.
***
The entire world is already aware of the two competing theories about MH17's downing half a
decade ago, with the West insisting that a supposedly Russian-supplied BUK surface-to-air
missile accidentally destroyed the passenger aircraft while Moscow has always maintained its
innocence and claimed that it's being framed as part of a politically motivated cover-up. Most
people have already made up their minds about what they think really happened on that dreadful
day, but those who doubt that an actual conspiracy took place might finally reconsider their
views after the newly released documentary by Yana Yerlashova together with Dutch investigator
Max van der Werff.
The "official" narrative blames Russia for this tragedy, but it's since been revealed
through the new evidence and testimonies that active efforts involving a broad array of
countries were undertaken from the get-go to paint Moscow as the culprit despite there being no
facts whatsoever to back up that provocative claim.
" MH17 – Call
For Justice " sheds light on the dark truth of what happened immediately after the plane's
downing, with
journalist John Helmer's summary of the 28-minute-long documentary pointing out the key
takeaways for those who don't have the time to watch it in full. The video powerfully includes
a brief interview with Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir, who had earlier
spoken out about the cover-up and reaffirms that Russia was blamed for what happened even
before any information was conclusively known about the incident.
The Prime Minister of Malaysia Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad also revealed that the West tried to
prevent his country's meaningful involvement in the investigation, which is extremely
scandalous, to say the least. The Malaysians weren't going to be deterred in their quest for
justice, however, as the documentary includes a testimony from Colonel Mohamad Sakri , the head
of the Malaysian team, disclosing that he secretly took a small team to Donetsk to gather
evidence from the site after Poroshenko's officials originally blocked them from doing so.
Malaysia's possession of the black boxes ensured that the country would know the truth about
what really occurred, which explains why Colonel Sakri also said that both the FBI and the
Ukrainian government desperately tried to convince him to hand this evidence over to them
immediately afterwards. He rightly refused, and that's why his government never jumped on the
bandwagon of blaming Russia since they were aware that there's no conclusive evidence proving
its complicity in this affair. This carries immense normative weight that has unfairly been
ignored by the Mainstream Media when discussing this case, though it's understandable why they
wouldn't want to draw attention to it since that "inconvenient fact" dismantles their
anti-Russian infowar. It also would make more people across the world question why they weren't
made aware of any of this in the first place, which in today's populist-driven environment
could produce more anti-elite outrage than ever before.
Few independent investigators have done as much to reveal the truth about MH17 as Yana
Yerlashova and Max Van den Werff, who have done the entire world an enormous service
with their latest documentary which has proven once that the Mainstream Media narrative was
nothing but a politically motivated lie to blame Moscow while deflecting attention from Kiev
and its probable
culpability in causing this tragedy.
Those who already knew this won't be surprised, but there are nevertheless many more who had
no idea about this side of the story, which is why this documentary is a much-watch and should
be shared with as many people as possible, especially on social media so that others can become
aware of the evidence and testimonies that his work includes in order to finally make up their
minds about what really happened.
*
Note to readers: please click the share buttons above or below. Forward this article to your
email lists. Crosspost on your blog site, internet forums. etc.
Andrew Korybko is an American Moscow-based political analyst specializing in the
relationship between the US strategy in Afro-Eurasia, China's One Belt One Road global vision
of New Silk Road connectivity, and Hybrid Warfare. He is a frequent contributor to Global
Research.
Ukraine became a geopolitical pawn. In signing up with the US and EU, there is one guaranteed loser – the Ukrainian people.
Notable quotes:
"... His electorally repudiated predecessor, Petro Poroshenko, backed by supporters in Washington, thwarted almost every preceding opportunity for negotiations both with the Donbass rebels and with Moscow, ..."
"... But the struggle for peace has just begun, with powerful forces arrayed against it in Ukraine, Moscow, and Washington. In Ukraine, well-armed ultra-nationalist -- some would say quasi-fascist -- detachments are terrorizing supporters of Zelensky's initiative, including a Kiev television station that proposed broadcasting a dialogue between Russian and Ukrainian citizens. ..."
"... Which brings us to Washington and in particular to President Donald Trump and his would-be opponent in 2020, former vice president Joseph Biden. Kiev's government, thus now Zelensky, is heavily dependent on billions of dollars of aid from the International Monetary Fund, which Washington largely controls. Former president Barack Obama and Biden, his "point man" for Ukraine, used this financial leverage to exercise semi-colonial influence over Poroshenko, generally making things worse, including the incipient Ukrainian civil war. Their hope was, of course, to sever Ukraine's centuries-long ties to Russia and even bring it eventually into the US-led NATO sphere of influence. ..."
"... Biden, however, has a special problem -- and obligation. As an implementer, and presumably architect, of Obama's disastrous policy in Ukraine, and currently the leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, Biden should be asked about his past and present thinking regarding Ukraine. The much-ballyhooed ongoing "debates" are an opportunity to ask the question -- and of other candidates as well. Presidential debates are supposed to elicit and clarify the views of candidates on domestic and foreign policy. And among the latter, few, if any, are more important than Ukraine, which remains the epicenter of this new and more dangerous Cold War. ..."
"... This commentary is based on Stephen F. Cohen's most recent weekly discussion with the host of The John Batchelor Show . Now in their sixth year, previous installments are at TheNation.com . ..."
The election of Ukraine's new president, Volodymyr Zelensky, who won decisively throughout
most of the country, represents the possibility of peace with Russia, if it -- and he -- are
given a chance. His electorally repudiated predecessor, Petro Poroshenko, backed by supporters
in Washington, thwarted almost every preceding opportunity for negotiations both with the
Donbass rebels and with Moscow, notably provisions associated with the European-sponsored Minsk
Accords. Zelensky, on the other hand, has made peace (along with corruption) his top priority
and indeed spoke directly with Russian President Vladimir Putin, on July 11. The nearly
six-year war having become a political, diplomatic, and financial drain on his leadership,
Putin welcomed the overture.
But the struggle for peace has just begun, with powerful forces arrayed against it in
Ukraine, Moscow, and Washington. In Ukraine, well-armed ultra-nationalist -- some would say
quasi-fascist -- detachments are terrorizing supporters of Zelensky's initiative, including a
Kiev television station that proposed broadcasting a dialogue between Russian and Ukrainian
citizens. (Washington has previously had some shameful episodes of
collusion with these Ukrainian neo-Nazis .) As for Putin, who does not fully control the
Donbass rebels or its leaders, he "can never be seen at home," as
I pointed out more than two years ago , "as 'selling out' Russia's 'brethren' anywhere in
southeast Ukraine." Indeed, his own implacable nationalists have made this a litmus test of his
leadership.
Which brings us to Washington and in particular to President Donald Trump and his
would-be opponent in 2020, former vice president Joseph Biden. Kiev's government, thus now
Zelensky, is heavily dependent on billions of dollars of aid from the International Monetary
Fund, which Washington largely controls. Former president Barack Obama and Biden, his "point
man" for Ukraine, used this financial leverage to exercise semi-colonial influence over
Poroshenko, generally making things worse, including the incipient Ukrainian civil war. Their
hope was, of course, to sever Ukraine's centuries-long ties to Russia and even bring it
eventually into the US-led NATO sphere of influence.
Our hope should be that Trump breaks with that long-standing bipartisan policy, as he did
with policy toward North Korea, and puts America squarely on the side of peace in Ukraine. (For
now, Zelensky has set aside Moscow's professed irreversible "reunification" with Crimea, as
should Washington.) A new US policy must include recognition, previously lacking, that the
citizens of war-ravaged Donbass are not primarily "Putin's stooges" but people with their own
legitimate interests and preferences, even if they favor Russia. Here too Zelensky is embarking
on a new course. Poroshenko waged an "anti-terrorist" war against Donbass: the new president is
reaching out to its citizens even though most of them were unable to vote in the election.
Biden, however, has a special problem -- and obligation. As an implementer, and presumably
architect, of Obama's disastrous policy in Ukraine, and currently the leading candidate for the
Democratic presidential nomination, Biden should be asked about his past and present thinking
regarding Ukraine. The much-ballyhooed ongoing "debates" are an opportunity to ask the question
-- and of other candidates as well. Presidential debates are supposed to elicit and clarify the
views of candidates on domestic and foreign policy. And among the latter, few, if any, are more
important than Ukraine, which remains the epicenter of this new and more dangerous Cold
War.
This commentary is based on Stephen F. Cohen's most recent weekly discussion with the
host of The John Batchelor
Show . Now in their sixth year, previous installments are at TheNation.com .
Bonanza media investigative team of independent journalists conduct exclusive interviews
with one of the suspects in the downing the MH17, the Malaysian prime minister, the colonel
that collected the black boxes and much more.
Eye-opening testimonies from witnesses and irrefutable evidence from experts. Exclusive
footage shot in Malaysia, the Netherlands and at the crash area in Ukraine.
"... including Ukraine in the JIT and excluding Malaysia were enough clues that the investigation would be a fix ..."
"... I think the Ukrainian side shot it down but I don't know whether by accident ( wouldn't be the first time ) or whether there was government involvement (but those faked up intercepts were out pretty quickly, weren't they?) Helmer discusses ; the documentary . ..."
MH17. I have always thought the JIT "investigation" was rotten – see
this (port engine intake – BIG clue as to direction of missile). We now have a
documentary that reiterates Malaysia was excluded, a secret mission to get the black box first,
the intercepts are fakes, more people report seeing fighter planes, the radars were not down
for repair.
But including Ukraine in the JIT and excluding
Malaysia were enough clues that the investigation would be a fix . I'm sceptical that
it was a BUK (too few fragments); I think the fighter plane sighting reports should be looked
at. I think the Ukrainian side shot it down but I don't know whether by accident (
wouldn't
be the first time ) or whether there was government involvement (but those faked up
intercepts were out pretty quickly, weren't they?)
Helmer discusses ; the documentary .
MH17. Thanks for that link to the documentary. It laid out a clear case that the JIT
investigation stinks to high heaven. I think you may have participated in some of our
discussions on this years ago.
Judging by some of the eyewitness accounts in the documentary, I'm leaning more to a shoot
down by a Ukrainian SU-25. I was always puzzled by the change of direction of the airliner's
flight path before it broke up. A chase/strafing run and AA missile strike seems a more
likely explanation for that direction change that a sudden Buk strike.
I believe the Ukies had versions of the SU-25 with pressurized cockpits and refurbished to
handle the R-60, R-73 and Israeli Python missiles.
Do you know if anyone is still researching this scenario?
What about the MH-17 "conspiracy theories"? A recent video " MH17:
Call for Justice' (2019) " produced by Max van der Werff blows the lid off (just the tip
of the iceberg) of the propaganda put worth by the West.
A new documentary from Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and
forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying
by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US, and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed
aircraft is also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official for the first
time.
The sources of the breakthrough are Malaysian – Prime Minister of Malaysia Mohamad
Mahathir; Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the officer in charge of the MH17 investigation for the
Prime Minister's Department and Malaysia's National Security Council following the crash on
July 17, 2014; and a forensic analysis by Malaysia's OG IT Forensic Services of Ukrainian
Secret Service (SBU) telephone tapes which Dutch prosecutors have announced as genuine.
...
The film reveals the Malaysian Government's evidence for judging the JIT's witness
testimony, photographs, video clips, and telephone tapes to have been manipulated by the
Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), and to be inadmissible in a criminal prosecution in a
Malaysian or other national or international court.
For the first time also, the Malaysian Government reveals how it got in the way of
attempts the US was organizing during the first week after the crash to launch a NATO
military attack on eastern Ukraine. The cover story for that was to rescue the plane,
passenger bodies, and evidence of what had caused the crash. In fact, the operation was
aimed at defeating the separatist movements in the Donbass, and to move against
Russian-held Crimea.
The new film reveals that a secret Malaysian military operation took custody of the
MH17 black boxes on July 22, preventing the US and Ukraine from seizing them
A new documentary from Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and
forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by
the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US Federal
Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed aircraft is
also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official for the first time.
"... For Malaysia, starting with Prime Minister Mahathir, to stand up and say the US tried to cook the record to pin the crash on Russia is remarkable. ..."
"... A new documentary from Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster, has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes; and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed aircraft is also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official for the first time. ..."
"... Malaysia's exclusion from the JIT at the outset, and Belgium's inclusion (4 Belgian nationals were listed on the MH17 passenger manifest), have never been explained. ..."
"... The film reveals the Malaysian Government's evidence for judging the JIT's witness testimony, photographs, video clips, and telephone tapes to have been manipulated by the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), and to be inadmissible in a criminal prosecution in a Malaysian or other national or international court. ..."
"... The new film reveals that a secret Malaysian military operation took custody of the MH17 black boxes on July 22, preventing the US and Ukraine from seizing them. The Malaysian operation, revealed in the film by the Malaysian Army colonel who led it, eliminated the evidence for the camouflage story, reinforcing the German Government's opposition to the armed attack, and forcing the Dutch to call off the invasion on July 27. ..."
"... Although German opposition to military intervention forced its cancellation, the Australians sent a 200-man special forces unit to The Netherlands and then Kiev. The European Union and the US followed with economic sanctions against Russia on July 29. ..."
"... In Kiev on July 24, 2014, left to right: Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop; Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin. Source: https://www.alamy.com/ The NATO intervention plan was still under discussion, but the black boxes were already under Malaysian control. ..."
"... Subsequent releases from the Kiev government to substantiate the allegation of Russian involvement in the shoot-down have included telephone tape recordings. These were presented last month by the JIT as their evidence for indictment of four Russians; for details, read this . ..."
"... Left: Dutch police chief Paulissen grins as he acknowledged during the June 19, 2019 , press conference of JIT that the telephone tape evidence on which the charges against the four accused Russians came from the Ukrainian SBU. ..."
"... Dubinsky testifies that he had no orders for and took no part in the shoot-down. As for the telephone tape-recording evidence against him, Dubinsky says the calls were made days before July 17, and edited by the SBU. ..."
"... She did not see a launch nor a plume from there. Notice the JIT 'launch site' is less than two kilometers from her house and garden. The BBC omitted this crucial part of her testimony." ..."
"... According to Kovalenko in the new documentary, at the firing location she has now identified precisely, "at that moment the Ukrainian Army were there." ..."
"... Volkov explained that on July 17 there were three radar units at Chuguev on "full alert" because "fighter jets were taking off from there;" Chuguev is 200 kilometres northwest of the crash site. He disputed that the repairs to one unit meant none of the three was operating. Ukrainian radar records of the location and time of the MH17 attack were made and kept, Volkov said. "There [they] have it. In Ukraine they have it." ..."
"... Last month, at the JIT press conference in The Netherlands on June 19, the Malaysian representative present, Mohammed Hanafiah Bin Al Zakaria, one of three Solicitors-General of the Malaysian Attorney General's ministry, refused to endorse for the Malaysian Governnment the JIT evidence or its charges against Russia. "Malaysia would like to reiterate our commitment to the JIT seeking justice for the victims," Zakaria said . "The objective of the JIT is to complete the investigations and gathering of evidence of all witnesses for the purpose of prosecuting the wrongdoers and Malaysia stands by the rule of law and the due process." [Question: do you support the conclusions?] "Part of the conclusions [inaudible] – do not change our positions." ..."
"... Why is the transcript of the Cockpit Voice Recorder kept a secret (see e.g. here for others)? ..."
"... Why is no journalist raising these questions? ..."
"... Bellingcat? The fellow using the pseudonym is called Eliot Higgins and hails from the Midlands, not far from the Jihadist masquerading as the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights above a take away shop. He was a regular BTL commentator at the Grauniad before being paid to spout BS. Nice work if one can get it, eh? ..."
"... That territory where the missile was fired from was in Ukrainian hands at the time, not rebels, and those launchers were seen speeding rapidly west after the shooting down. ..."
"... Now that we have the crime and the five-year cover-up, the simplest explanation is actually the one of a likely false flag operation. Asking 'cui bono,' how would Russia or the rebels benefit from shooting down a plane with bunch of Dutch people on board? (Russia historically has had good relations with Holland, Malaysia, too.) ..."
"... Lots of terrible stuff happened in Ukraine after the govt changed (courtesy of the west). Have we forgotten about the burning of more than 40 people in Odessa? Or the murders of politicians and journalists? ..."
"... And let's not forget the appearance of (coordinated) magazine covers of VVP as the devil incarnate – almost in unison, right after the shooting of the plane. ..."
"... "Why are you so late", [Borodai] said I think [that was] very funny." That sounds like what happened at the Pan Am 103 site. For some reason yet to be explained over thirty years later, the Royal Air Force air accident investigation team, based at RAF Halton in Buckinghamshire, found an American military team on site when they landed by helicopter a bit before midnight. ..."
"... I was following this story very closely at the time and you could see that something was "off" within days. The Russians came out with a press conference and released radar tracks and full & total information. We in the west got – a YouTube link. Seriously. This was just the beginning. There was one clip that came out showing moving trucks that proved that the Russians did it – until someone woke up to the fact that the trees in the background were in the winter season whereas that jet was shot down in high summer. And so it went on. ..."
"... Another time an official visit had to be cancelled as the area was being shelled – by the Ukrainians. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to realize that there was a whole pack of dogs that were seriously not barking. ..."
"... That story about Australia wanting to send 3,000 troops was weird. That is a very large force for Australia and it would have taken weeks to put together a joint US/Dutch/Australian Task Force to go into the rebel area but you would have been talking about heavy casualties and risks of severe escalation with a nuclear Russia. ..."
"... Yeah, I remember watching those films. I saw this big, bearded rebel pick up a child's doll, showed it to the camera as in "Do you see this s***?", put it reverently back where he found it, and then crossed himself in a Orthodox blessing. So the western media took a screen shot of that rebel holding that child's doll and put a caption underneath that the rebel was boasting of the plane being shot down. As for that footage, I live in Oz and I am here to state that I would sooner trust CNN or Fox News before would I put any trust in News Corp Australia, especially their propaganda unit "60 Minutes Australia". ..."
"... If memory serves the late Robert Parry of Consortium News claimed to have USG sources who said the missile was a Buk fired by Ukrainian, not separatist troops. And I believe that Russia has said the rocket engine serial number from the investigation's evidence is for a Buk sold long ago to the Ukrainians. ..."
"... The good news is that the criminal coup regime in Kiev seems to have been decisively defeated with Sunday's election according to MOA in Links. Perhaps this particular branch of the New Cold War–which the Obama regime was so very much responsible for–will begin to find peace. ..."
Yves here. Hoo boy. The idea that eastern Ukrainian insurgents or Russia would target a passenger plane never made any sense (unless
the plane had high-priority targets or cargo), although it's always been possible that the downing of MH17 was an accident, and some
efforts to explain what happened are based on that idea. For Malaysia, starting with Prime Minister Mahathir, to stand up and
say the US tried to cook the record to pin the crash on Russia is remarkable.
A new documentary from Max van der Werff, the leading independent investigator of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 disaster,
has revealed breakthrough evidence of tampering and forging of prosecution materials; suppression of Ukrainian Air Force radar tapes;
and lying by the Dutch, Ukrainian, US and Australian governments. An attempt by agents of the US Federal Bureau of Investigation
(FBI) to take possession of the black boxes of the downed aircraft is also revealed by a Malaysian National Security Council official
for the first time.
The sources of the breakthrough are Malaysian -- Prime Minister of Malaysia Mohamad Mahathir; Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the officer
in charge of the MH17 investigation for the Prime Minister's Department and Malaysia's National Security Council following the crash
on July 17, 2014; and a forensic analysis by Malaysia's OG IT Forensic Services of Ukrainian Secret Service (SBU) telephone tapes
which Dutch prosecutors have announced as genuine.
The 298 casualties of MH17 included 192 Dutch; 44 Malaysians; 27 Australians; 15 Indonesians. The nationality counts vary because
the airline manifest does
not identify dual nationals of Australia, the UK, and the US.
The new film throws the full weight of the Malaysian Government, one of the five members of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT),
against the published findings and the recent indictment of Russian suspects reported by the Dutch officials in charge of the JIT;
in addition to Malaysia and The Netherlands, the members of the JIT are Australia, Ukraine and Belgium. Malaysia's exclusion
from the JIT at the outset, and Belgium's inclusion (4 Belgian nationals were listed on the MH17 passenger manifest), have never
been explained.
The film reveals the Malaysian Government's evidence for judging the JIT's witness testimony, photographs, video clips, and
telephone tapes to have been manipulated by the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), and to be inadmissible in a criminal prosecution
in a Malaysian or other national or international court.
For the first time also, the Malaysian Government reveals how it got in the way of attempts the US was organizing during the first
week after the crash to launch a NATO military attack on eastern Ukraine. The cover story for that was to rescue the plane, passenger
bodies, and evidence of what had caused the crash. In fact, the operation was aimed at defeating the separatist movements in the
Donbass, and to move against Russian-held Crimea.
The new film reveals that a secret Malaysian military operation took custody of the MH17 black boxes on July 22, preventing
the US and Ukraine from seizing them. The Malaysian operation, revealed in the film by the Malaysian Army colonel who led it, eliminated
the evidence for the camouflage story, reinforcing the German Government's opposition to the armed attack, and forcing the Dutch
to call off the invasion on July 27.
The 28-minute documentary by Max van der Werff and Yana Yerlashova has just been released. Yerlashova was the film director and
co-producer with van der Werff and Ahmed Rifazal. Vitaly Biryaukov directed the photography. Watch it in full
here .
The full interview with Prime Minister Mahathir was released in advance; it can be viewed and read
here .
Mahathir reveals why the US, Dutch and Australian governments attempted to exclude Malaysia from membership of the JIT in the
first months of the investigation. During that period, US, Dutch, Australian and NATO officials initiated a plan for 9,000 troops
to enter eastern Ukraine, ostensibly to secure the crash scene, the aircraft and passenger remains, and in response to the alleged
Russian role in the destruction of MH17 on July 17; for details of that scheme, read
this .
Although German opposition to military intervention forced its cancellation, the Australians sent a 200-man special forces
unit to The Netherlands and then Kiev. The European Union and the US followed with economic sanctions against Russia on July 29.
Malaysian resistance to the US attempts to blame Moscow for the aircraft shoot-down was made clear in the first hours after
the incident to then-President Barack Obama by Malaysia's Prime Minister at the time, Najib Razak. That story can be followed
here and
here .
In an unusual decision to speak in the new documentary, Najib's successor Prime Minister Mahathir announced: "They never allowed
us to be involved from the very beginning. This is unfair and unusual. So we can see they are not really looking at the causes of
the crash and who was responsible. But already they have decided it must be Russia. So we cannot accept that kind of attitude. We
are interested in the rule of law, in justice for everyone irrespective of who is involved. We have to know who actually fired the
missile, and only then can we accept the report as the complete truth."
On July 18, in the first Malaysian Government press conference after the shoot-down, Najib (right)
announced agreements he had already
reached by telephone with Obama and Petro Poroshenko, the Ukrainian President. " 'Obama and I agreed that the investigation will
not be hidden and the international teams have to be given access to the crash scene.' [Najib] said the Ukrainian president has
pledged that there would be a full, thorough and independent investigation and Malaysian officials would be invited to take part.
'He also confirmed that his government will negotiate with rebels in the east of the country in order to establish a humanitarian
corridor to the crash site,' said Najib. He also said that no one should remove any debris or the black box from the scene. The Government
of Malaysia is dispatching a special flight to Kiev, carrying a Special Malaysia Disaster Assistance and Rescue Team, as well as
a medical team. But we must – and we will – find out precisely what happened to this flight. No stone can be left unturned."
The new film reveals in an interview with Colonel Mohamad Sakri, the head of the Malaysian team, what happened next. Sakri's evidence,
filmed in his office at Putrajaya, is the first to be reported by the press outside Malaysia in five years. A year ago, Sakri gave
a partial account of his mission to a Malaysian
newspaper .
"I talked to my prime minister [Najib]," Colonel Sakri says. "He directed me to go to the crash site immediately." At the time
Sakri was a senior security official at the Disaster Management Division of the Prime Minister's Department. Sakri says that after
arriving in Kiev, Poroshenko's officials blocked the Malaysians. "We were not allowed to go there so I took a small team to leave
Kiev going to Donetsk secretly." There Sakri toured the crash site, and met with officials of the Donetsk separatist administration
headed by Alexander Borodai .
With eleven men, including two medical specialists, a signalman, and Malaysian Army commandos, Sakri had raced to the site ahead
of an armed convoy of Australian, Dutch and Ukrainian government men. The latter were blocked by Donetsk separatist units. The Australian
state press agency ABC
reported their
military convoy, prodded from Kiev by the appearance of Australian and Dutch foreign ministers Julie Bishop and Frans Timmermans,
had been forced to abandon their mission. That was after Colonel Sakri had taken custody of the MH17 black boxes in a handover ceremony
filmed at Borodai's office in Donetsk on July 22.
US sources told the
Wall Street
Journal at the time "the [Sakri] mission's success delivered a political victory for Mr. Najib's government it also handed
a gift to the rebels in the form of an accord, signed by the top Malaysian official present in Donetsk, calling the crash site 'the
territory of the Donetsk People's Republic.' That recognition could antagonize Kiev and Washington, which have striven not to give
any credibility to the rebels, whose main leaders are Russian citizens with few ties to the area. State Department deputy spokeswoman
Marie Harf said in a briefing Monday that the negotiation 'in no way legitimizes' separatists."
The Australian state radio then reported the Ukrainian government as claiming the black box evidence showed "the reason for the
destruction and crash of the plane was massive explosive decompression arising from multiple shrapnel perforations from a rocket
explosion." This was a fabrication – the evidence of the black boxes, the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder, first
reported six weeks later in September by the Dutch Safety Board, showed nothing of the kind; read what their evidence
revealed .
Foreign Minister Bishop, in Kiev on July 24, claimed she was negotiating with the Ukrainians for the Australian team in the country
to carry arms. "I don't envisage that we will ever resort to [arms]," she told her state news agency, "but it is a contingency planning,
and you would be reckless not to include it in this kind of agreement. But I stress our mission is unarmed because it is [a] humanitarian
mission."
In Kiev on July 24, 2014, left to right: Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop; Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans,
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin. Source:
https://www.alamy.com/ The NATO intervention plan was still under discussion, but the black boxes were already under Malaysian
control.
By the time she spoke to her state radio, Bishop was concealing that the plan for armed intervention, including 3,000 Australian
troops, had been called off. She was also concealing that the black boxes were already in Colonel Sakri's possession.
The document signed by Sakri for the handover of the black boxes is visible in the new documentary. Sakri signed himself and added
the stamp of the National Security Council of Malaysia.
Col. Sakri says on film the Donetsk leaders expressed surprise at the delay of the Malaysians in arriving at the crash site
to recover the black boxes. "Why are you so late", [Borodai] said I think [that was] very funny." Source:
https://www.youtube.com/ Min. 05:47.
Sakri goes on to say he was asked by the OSCE's special
monitoring mission for Ukraine to hand over
the black boxes; he refused. He was then met by agents of the FBI (Min 6:56). "They approached me to show them the black box. I said
no." He also reports that in Kiev the Ukrainian Government tried "forcing me to leave the black boxes with them. We said no. We cannot.
We cannot allow."
The handover ceremony in Donetsk, July 22, 2014: on far left, the two black boxes from MH17; in the centre, shaking hands,
Alexander Borodai and Mohamad Sakri.
Permission for Colonel Sakri to speak to the press has been authorized by his superiors at the prime ministry in Putrajaya, and
his disclosures agreed with them in advance.
Subsequent releases from the Kiev government to substantiate the allegation of Russian involvement in the shoot-down have
included telephone tape recordings. These were presented last month by the JIT as their evidence for indictment of four Russians;
for details, read
this .
Van der Werff and Yerlashova contracted with OG IT Forensic Services
, a Malaysian firm specializing in forensic analysis of audio, video and digital materials for court proceedings, to examine
the telephone tapes. The Kuala Lumpur firm has been endorsed by the
Malaysian Bar . The full 143-page technical report can be read
here .
The findings reported by Akash Rosen and illustrated on camera are that the telephone recordings have been cut, edited and fabricated.
The source of the tapes, according to the
JIT press conference on June 19 by Dutch police officer Paulissen, head of the National Criminal Investigation Service of The
Netherlands, was the Ukrainian SBU. Similar findings of tape fabrication and evidence tampering are reported on camera in the van
der Werff film by a German analyst, Norman Ritter.
Left: Dutch police chief Paulissen grins as he acknowledged during the
June 19, 2019 , press conference of
JIT that the telephone tape evidence on which the charges against the four accused Russians came from the Ukrainian SBU.
Minute 16:02 Right: Norman Ritter presented his analysis to interviewer Billy Sixt to show the telephone tape evidence has
been forged in nine separate "manipulations". One of the four accused by the JIT last month, Sergei Dubinsky, testifies from Min.
17 of the documentary. He says his men recovered the black boxes from the crash site and delivered them to Borodai at 23:00 hours
on July 17; the destruction of the aircraft occurred at 1320.
Dubinsky testifies that he had no orders for and took no part in the shoot-down. As for the telephone tape-recording evidence
against him, Dubinsky says the calls were made days before July 17, and edited by the SBU. "I dare them to publish the uncut
conversations, and then you will get a real picture of what was discussed." (Min. 17:59).
Van der Werff and Yerlashova filmed at the crash site in eastern Ukraine. Several local witnesses were interviewed, including
a man named Alexander from Torez town, and Valentina Kovalenko, a woman from the farming village of Red October. The man said the
missile equipment alleged by the JIT to have been transported from across the Russian border on July 17 was in Torez at least one,
possibly two days before the shoot-down on July 17; he did not confirm details the JIT has identified as a Buk system.
Kovalenko, first portrayed in a BBC documentary three
years ago (starting at Min.26:50) as a "unique" eye-witness to the missile launch, clarifies more precisely than the BBC reported
where the missile she saw had been fired from.
This was not the location identified in press statements by JIT. Van der Werff explains: "we specifically asked [Kovalenko] to
point exactly in the direction the missile came from. I then asked twice if maybe it was from the direction of the JIT launch site.
She did not see a launch nor a plume from there. Notice the JIT 'launch site' is less than two kilometers from her house and
garden. The BBC omitted this crucial part of her testimony."
According to Kovalenko in the new documentary, at the firing location she has now identified precisely, "at that moment the
Ukrainian Army were there."
Kovalenko also remembers that on the days preceding the July 17 missile firing she witnessed, there had been Ukrainian military
aircraft operating in the sky above her village. She says they used evasion techniques including flying in the shadow of civilian
aircraft she also saw at the same time.
On July 17, three other villagers told van der Werff they had seen a Ukrainian military jet in the vicinity and at the time of
the MH17 crash.
Concluding the documentary, van der Werff and Yerlashova present an earlier interview filmed in Donetsk by independent Dutch journalist
Stefan Beck, whom JIT officials had tried to warn off visiting the area. Beck interviewed Yevgeny Volkov, who was an air controller
for the Ukrainian Air Force in July 2014. Volkov was asked to comment on Ukrainian Government statements, endorsed by the Dutch Safety
Board report into the crash and in subsequent reports by the JIT, that there were no radar records of the airspace at the time of
the shoot-down because Ukrainian military radars were not operational.
Volkov explained that on July 17 there were three radar units at Chuguev on "full alert" because "fighter jets were taking
off from there;" Chuguev is 200 kilometres northwest of the crash site. He disputed that the repairs to one unit meant none of the
three was operating. Ukrainian radar records of the location and time of the MH17 attack were made and kept, Volkov said. "There
[they] have it. In Ukraine they have it."
Last month, at the JIT press conference in The Netherlands on June 19, the Malaysian representative present, Mohammed Hanafiah
Bin Al Zakaria, one of three Solicitors-General of the Malaysian Attorney General's ministry, refused to endorse for the Malaysian
Governnment the JIT evidence or its charges against Russia. "Malaysia would like to reiterate our commitment to the JIT seeking justice
for the victims," Zakaria
said . "The objective of the JIT is to complete the investigations and gathering of evidence of all witnesses for the purpose
of prosecuting the wrongdoers and Malaysia stands by the rule of law and the due process." [Question: do you support the conclusions?]
"Part of the conclusions [inaudible] – do not change our positions."
By John Helmer , the longest continuously serving foreign
correspondent in Russia, and the only western journalist to direct his own bureau independent of single national or commercial ties.
Helmer has also been a professor of political science, and an advisor to government heads in Greece, the United States, and Asia.
He is the first and only member of a US presidential administration (Jimmy Carter) to establish himself in Russia. Originally published
at
Dances with Bears
I always come back to the same three questions:
1. If all civilian and military radars were out of order, why was the flight not redirected out of the Ukrainian airspace and
into some territory with radar?
2. Why is the transcript of the Cockpit Voice Recorder kept a secret (see e.g.
here for others)?
3. Why is no journalist raising these questions?
(I got a partial answer to 3. "because only Kremlin trolls and conspiracy specialists doubt the official/Bellingcat version")
Re 1) active radar is not used that much in civilian flight control anymore, it's basically a back-up for passive transponder
pick up. Dnipro Control was monitoring the flight using passive (that's for example how they knew they were off their approved
airway L980 and asked them to get back, which, if there was no radar, they could not do). Passive (civilian) radar is no use in
tracking missiles or military planes with no transporder on.
Bellingcat? The fellow using the pseudonym is called Eliot Higgins and hails from the Midlands, not far from the Jihadist
masquerading as the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights above a take away shop. He was a regular BTL commentator at the Grauniad
before being paid to spout BS. Nice work if one can get it, eh?
Having grown up in a military family and knowing what precautions are taken, I am staggered at how Bell End Cat can track down
Russian secret servicemen with such ease and in their homeland.
If you watch the film, you'd learn that there were back-ups so not all were out of order. And if we knew the answer to your
questions, we'd likely know 'who done it.'
Undoubtedly there's something quite rotten afoot here, and I'll be sure to give this film a watch, but honestly the Malaysians
have zero credibility when it comes to airplane crashes involving their national airline, especially after they deliberately fed
false information to rescue and recovery teams concerning MH 370's flight path. Whatever they knew or didn't know they had no
interest in helping anyone find that airplane or discover what took place onboard before it vanished. They should spare us all
any sanctimony about 'justice for victims, truth, rule of law, etc.'
It seems the world has a real credibility crisis today, not many state actors I trust to tell the truth or not politicize tragedy.
These revelations certainly make it seem more likely Ukrainian forces were to blame for downing MH17, but at this point the mystery
will never be conclusively solved. Two warring factions with the exact same equipment/weaponry in close proximity, compromised
crash sites, tons of propaganda, lots of interested parties seeking to maximize the tragedy for political gain, corrupt authorities
all around.
Not an ideal situation for objective fact finding to say the least. With the 1MBD scandal and investigation still ongoing I
have no doubts the Malaysians are probably looking for leverage and bargaining chips where ever they can find them, further eroding
their objectivity and authority in my opinion. Getting to the bottom of the Kennedy assassination will be easier than MH17, but
if the truth does come out it will not be owed to the virtues of the Malaysian government. They've already shown the world how
much they care about airplane crash investigations.
I have to tell you, this is an ad hominem argument, which is a violation of our site Policies. You need to deal with the evidence
and not attack the source. With MH370, you had a crash of a plane under the control of the carrier, not as a result of an air
strike.
Quite apart from the ad hominem nature of JerryDenim's comment (and I disagree with Yves Smith; I think the credibility of
sources is relevant), what motive would Malaysia have for siding with Russia/east Ukraine against the west/west Ukraine? Does
JerryDenim know of one, or have any suggestions?
TBH, I have dire doubts on anything Malaysian government says, due to their handling of MH370 where they continue lying in
face of hard facts (that doesn't mean I believe any governments on this).
I believe that the most likely cause is an accidental shooting down, where an inexperienced and untrained separatist crew messed
up (this is what you get when even a semi-sophisticated equipment gets to untrained people who are keen to use it).
For me it fits Occam's razor the most, and is the only theory which explains the (documented) boasting of the separatists of
a large military plane being shot down immediately after the catastrophe.
How is "Russia did it" logical? That part of Ukraine was in the hands of separatists, not "Russia". "Russia" was not directing
their activities. Russia does not want to control the eastern part of Ukraine, which is an economic basket case. But it doesn't
want hostile forces parked on its border.
Sorry, that's irrelevant even if true. Even if "Russia" was formally providing troops, as opposed to engaged in a massive wink
and nod (a LOT of Russians had relatives in eastern Ukraine, a point you forget re motives and numbers), that's way way way short
of any evidence they were in charge.
Plus I was wrong on the key point, and it renders your argument moot. From Rev Kev below:
That territory where the missile was fired from was in Ukrainian hands at the time, not rebels, and those launchers were
seen speeding rapidly west after the shooting down.
This response is non-sensical. Have you been to the cemeteries you mention? Any picture can be posted and a caption written
– that is no proof of anything. Besides the point being irrelevant to the question of who shot down the plane.
Now that we have the crime and the five-year cover-up, the simplest explanation is actually the one of a likely false flag
operation. Asking 'cui bono,' how would Russia or the rebels benefit from shooting down a plane with bunch of Dutch people on
board? (Russia historically has had good relations with Holland, Malaysia, too.)
Lots of terrible stuff happened in Ukraine after the govt changed (courtesy of the west). Have we forgotten about the burning
of more than 40 people in Odessa? Or the murders of politicians and journalists?
I suppose if one believes the West's preferred version of Putin as some Bond type villain who takes great delight in shooting
down planes full of civilians, presumably while stroking a large white cat then I suppose the he dunnit version is the one for
you.
Personally I believe that Putin is not an idiot & would likely have been more interested in putting out that fire than throwing
more fuel onto it. As for who has any credibility – the Ukrainians under Porkyschenko with their Neo-Nazi element, would I think
be at the bottom of my list & that is without mentioning Neo-Cons with their Noble Lie BS.
And let's not forget the appearance of (coordinated) magazine covers of VVP as the devil incarnate – almost in unison, right
after the shooting of the plane.
"Why are you so late", [Borodai] said I think [that was] very funny." That sounds like what happened at the Pan Am 103
site. For some reason yet to be explained over thirty years later, the Royal Air Force air accident investigation team, based
at RAF Halton in Buckinghamshire, found an American military team on site when they landed by helicopter a bit before midnight.
The US team took charge even though they were on foreign soil.
That was a pretty gutsy move on the Malaysians to send in their own retrieval team for those recorders. I bet that those Malaysian
commandos would have a story to tell or two. The danger wasn't from the rebels however but from the west and their allied Ukrainians.
The rebels were more than glad to hand over the records that they found at first opportunity but the information, once in the
hands of the west, has been seeping out with all the speed of the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
I was following this story very closely at the time and you could see that something was "off" within days. The Russians
came out with a press conference and released radar tracks and full & total information. We in the west got – a YouTube link.
Seriously. This was just the beginning. There was one clip that came out showing moving trucks that proved that the Russians did
it – until someone woke up to the fact that the trees in the background were in the winter season whereas that jet was shot down
in high summer. And so it went on.
There was a very slow walk to stop people going to the crash site. One Australian couple who lost someone went there in spite
of the efforts of our government to stop them.Another time an official visit had to be cancelled as the area was
being shelled – by the Ukrainians. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to realize that there was a whole pack of dogs that were
seriously not barking. A link from this page talks about how there is a silence when MH17 got hit. I have heard recordings
of aircraft that went down and there is usually something – a bang, crumpling, warning calls, shouts – but here there was nothing.
That story about Australia wanting to send 3,000 troops was weird. That is a very large force for Australia and it would
have taken weeks to put together a joint US/Dutch/Australian Task Force to go into the rebel area but you would have been talking
about heavy casualties and risks of severe escalation with a nuclear Russia. Having said that, Tony Abbott was Prime Minister
of the time and Julie Bishop was his Foreign minister and they are both hard right politicians (now both thankfully gone) and
may have been entertaining such thoughts.
My belief is that this was an operation to try and retrieve the situation in the Ukraine for the west. The US alone spent over
$5 billion on this coup but Russia grabbed the crown jewels of Crimea (with its naval bases & off-shore gas fields) and eastern
Ukraine which has a border with Russia. That territory where the missile was fired from was in Ukrainian hands at the time, not
rebels, and those launchers were seen speeding rapidly west after the shooting down. Ask yourself – who benefited from this tragedy
and that will tell you where to go looking for answers. Maybe, like happened with the Meuller investigation, Russian legal representations
should show up in a court of law and start demanding the discovery process of all the evidence. Now that could get interesting.
Rebels were the first to respond to the crash scene, recording themselves with a camcorder. The rebels were convinced they
had shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet and were searching for a pilot that would have ejected. The rebels then thought a
fighter downed the airliner and they downed the fighter. Their commander speaking in both Russian and Ukrainian tells the
rebels to stop filming and clear the area of civilians. The footage was aired by News Corp Australia.
Yeah, I remember watching those films. I saw this big, bearded rebel pick up a child's doll, showed it to the camera as
in "Do you see this s***?", put it reverently back where he found it, and then crossed himself in a Orthodox blessing. So the
western media took a screen shot of that rebel holding that child's doll and put a caption underneath that the rebel was boasting
of the plane being shot down. As for that footage, I live in Oz and I am here to state that I would sooner trust CNN or Fox News
before would I put any trust in News Corp Australia, especially their propaganda unit "60 Minutes Australia".
If memory serves the late Robert Parry of Consortium News claimed to have USG sources who said the missile was a Buk fired
by Ukrainian, not separatist troops. And I believe that Russia has said the rocket engine serial number from the investigation's
evidence is for a Buk sold long ago to the Ukrainians.
Of course Western sources will say the Russians have no credibility but then they don't either–the fog of propaganda war.
The good news is that the criminal coup regime in Kiev seems to have been decisively defeated with Sunday's election according
to MOA in Links. Perhaps this particular branch of the New Cold War–which the Obama regime was so very much responsible for–will
begin to find peace.
"... If I understand this article correctly, MH17 was not just a Ukrainian operation, but a NATO operation, with the objective of using it as a false-flag operation to justify the launching a 9000 troop NATO invasion to capture the rebel-held territories and Crimea. This operation was averted at the last minute because the Malaysians got to the crash site first, and signed an agreement with the Donbass rebels to take the black-boxes and secure the site, thus removing the excuse for the invasion (protect the evidence from destruction), and because the Germans would not go along with a NATO invasion. ..."
"... If this is true, it goes a long way to explain why the countries involved in the investigation have so vehemently been covering up for the Ukranian Nazis. Rather, they've been covering up their own tracks. ..."
If I understand this article correctly, MH17 was not just a Ukrainian operation, but a
NATO operation, with the objective of using it as a false-flag operation to justify the
launching a 9000 troop NATO invasion to capture the rebel-held territories and Crimea. This
operation was averted at the last minute because the Malaysians got to the crash site first,
and signed an agreement with the Donbass rebels to take the black-boxes and secure the site,
thus removing the excuse for the invasion (protect the evidence from destruction), and
because the Germans would not go along with a NATO invasion.
If this is true, it goes a long way to explain why the countries involved in the
investigation have so vehemently been covering up for the Ukranian Nazis. Rather, they've
been covering up their own tracks.
"... Based on its own investigation, Russia's Defense Ministry earlier revealed that the serial number obtained from fragments of the Soviet-era Buk missile used to down the aircraft "indicate(d) that the engine was manufactured in the Soviet Union back in 1986." ..."
"... By 2011, missiles manufactured in that year "were withdrawn from service, written off or scrapped," adding: ..."
"... "The sole reason why the JIT stays quiet about the origin of the missile engine manufactured in 1986 is the missile more than likely belonged to the Ukrainian armed forces." ..."
"... A classic false flag, a longstanding US specialty, MH17's downing occurred in Ukrainian airspace at a time regime forces waging war on Donbass were being soundly beaten. ..."
"... Excluding Russia from the JIT probe let its member countries "fabricate evidence," credible information Russian investigators uncovered separately excluded from JIT findings. ..."
Not a shred of credible evidence suggests Russia or its nationals had anything to do with
downing Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) on July 17, 2014 in eastern Ukraine airspace, all
passengers and crew members perishing at the time.
So-called Joint Investigation Team (JIT) member countries Australia, Belgium, the
Netherlands, and Ukraine (US sponsored Kiev regime) in cahoots with the US and NATO falsely
claimed otherwise. Russia and Malaysia were excluded from the probe.
Based on its own investigation, Russia's Defense Ministry earlier revealed that the serial
number obtained from fragments of the Soviet-era Buk missile used to down the aircraft
"indicate(d) that the engine was manufactured in the Soviet Union back in 1986."
By 2011, missiles manufactured in that year "were withdrawn from service, written off or
scrapped," adding:
"The sole reason why the JIT stays quiet about the origin of the missile engine
manufactured in 1986 is the missile more than likely belonged to the Ukrainian armed
forces."
Clearly Russia had nothing to do with downing MH17, nor did Donbass freedom fighters. The
incident had US and Kiev fingerprints all over it.
A classic false flag, a longstanding US specialty, MH17's downing occurred in Ukrainian
airspace at a time regime forces waging war on Donbass were being soundly beaten.
Five years later, the Big Lie about what happened persists, ignoring what's obvious. What
possible reason would Russia have to down a commercial aircraft anywhere?
The Obama regime and Kiev putchists it installed clearly benefit from blaming Russia for
what no credible evidence suggests it had anything to do with.
Yet on Wednesday, the JIT falsely blamed three Russian nationals -- Igor Girkin (connected
to its Federal Security Service), military intelligence officials Sergei Dubinsky and Oleg
Pulatov , along with pro-Moscow Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko for downing MH17.
Placed on an international want list, a show trial with them in absentia is scheduled for
March 9, 2020, the above individuals falsely charged with murder.
"(w)e are still gathering new data for investigation, because we will start prosecuting
now, but the investigation will continue."
Dutch chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said the following:
"Today, we will send out international arrest warrants for the four suspects that we will
prosecute," adding:
"They will also be placed on national and international wanted lists. Because of that, we
(are) reveal(ing) their full names show(ing) you their pictures" -- despite no credible
evidence of their involvement in what happened.
Russia categorically rejects the fabricated JIT accusations, calling them "absolutely
baseless." No credible evidence supports them.
Excluding Russia from the JIT probe let its member countries "fabricate evidence," credible
information Russian investigators uncovered separately excluded from JIT findings.
No Russian missile crossed the Ukrainian border, its Defense Ministry stressed, the missile
used given to Ukraine in 1986, identified by its serial number, as explained above.
The above-named JIT suspects are convenient patsies, wanting them and Russia blamed for what
the US and Kiev were responsible for.
... ... ...
Source: NYT
Russophobic NYT editors
jumped on the falsified JIT accusations. Turning truth on its head, they said the
following:
"In Vladimir Putin's Kremlin, lying -- willfully, methodically, shamelessly -- is the
default response to any accusations of wrongdoing" -- a longstanding US, NATO, Israeli
specialty, not how Putin's Russia operates.
It's also standard procedure for the Times and other establishment media, featuring managed
news misinformation and disinformation, suppressing hard truths on major issues, especially
geopolitical ones.
The Times: "Russia's involvement (in downing MH17) has long been clear" -- a bald-faced Big
Lie.
The Times: "(A) Russian missile launcher belonging to an active Russian military unit was
driven into eastern Ukraine and used to fire a Buk missile at the Malaysian jumbo jet" --
another bald-faced Big Lie.
Because of its global reach, the Times is the closest thing to an official US ministry of
propaganda, carpet-bombing its readers with falsified official narrative rubbish in lieu of
high journalistic standards the way they're supposed to be.
The Times and other establishment media abandoned them long ago, giving yellow journalism
they feature a bad name.
*
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Award-winning author Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago. He can be reached at [email protected] . He is a Research
Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG). His new book as editor and contributor is titled "Flashpoint in Ukraine: US Drive for
Hegemony Risks WW III." http://www.claritypress.com/LendmanIII.html Visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com .
"... I too am a studio engineer who has worked with DAWs since their inception for digital recording. The splicing is obvious...and the splicing alone is enough to prove that Kiev turned in fake audio files ..."
"... They turned them in 25 minutes after the plane went down therefore they were prepared in advance. In other words, it was premeditated intentional murder. It was not the rebels and it was not an accident. It was Kiev. ..."
"... I have read that the video was made public 5 hours later - not 25 minutes. Regardless, this strongly suggests that the doctored tape had been in preparation BEFORE the incident. ..."
"... if Ukraine were blameless in the incident, why would their security services have immediately attempted to bamboozle the world with a doctored tape? ..."
"... The Ukrainian secret police are said to have a particular animosity toward Commander Bes. How curious that, a day after SBU obtains a tape of Bes referring to a plane shoot down, MH-17 is mysteriously routed right over Bes' base - and then SBU tries to frame Bes within hours of the tragedy by releasing the misleading tape. Czech analyst Vladimir Suchan states that "this almost could be a smoking gun" of a false flag attack. ..."
"... An audio communication between deputies of Kolomoisky and of the Ukrainian Defense Minister, allegedly hacked by the Russian Kyber Berkut cybergroup, and cited in my old essay (gosh, this hacked communication is no longer available on-line - wonder why?), lends itself to the view that Ukrainian jets first cannonaded MH17, causing it to swerve, but - because the jets were flying at too high an altitude for their design - the BUK was then employed to complete the destruction of MH17. ..."
"... We are left with a conundrum - was the attack on MH17 a conscious false flag (almost too barbaric to contemplate), or was it a bungled attempt to shoot down a plane carrying Putin back from a trip to South America - the intent being to blame the shoot down on the rebels? ..."
"... The fact that, for unknown reasons, MH17 had been diverted by Ukraine air traffic control to fly right over the war zone near Commander Bes speaks for the former possibility. ..."
"... The conclusion by the JIT that Russia had been responsible for the shoot down is based on an implausible Rube Goldberg scenario concocted by the "independent investigative group" Bellingcat; it is alleged that a Russian BUK had been trundled into Ukraine (German satellite intelligence has ruled this out, but Germany wasn't invited to join the JIT), fired off one BUK to take down MH17, then returned (by an illogical route) the next day ..."
"... The JIT readily accepted Bellingcat's explanation because it is in effect a kangaroo court organized by Ukraine and representing the interests of NATO. (Malaysia does not accept this explanation, as its primary motivation is to determine what actually happened to its plane, as opposed to furthering NATO's geopolitical agenda vilifying Russia.) ..."
"... The Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad, has called the decision by the Dutch-led investigative team to charge three Ukranians and a Russian with murder in the downing of MH17 "ridiculous" and "politically motivated." This, of course, has resulted in vigorous condemnations by the usual US sycophants. ..."
"... The US, of course, values Russia as a Goldilocks enemy, technically advanced enough to be sold as a threat, thereby helping to justify a ridiculous military budget, but not economically engaged with the US to an extent that maintaining them as an enemy would seriously cut into corporate profits. Every time I look seriously into a main stream media allegation of Russian wrong doing, it turns out to be propaganda unsupported by facts. While I know what is going on, the fact that we are being continuously lied to and the facts that the msm and the "serious" politicians buy into this dreck so readily is a great source of fear and frustration. ..."
Note this comment by "Valerie1" below - the kill shot:
I too am a studio engineer who has worked with DAWs since their inception for digital recording. The splicing is obvious...and
the splicing alone is enough to prove that Kiev turned in fake audio files.
Real conversations do not have overlapping samples/soundbytes and splices people. This video proves it hands down. Kiev
faked the files.
They turned them in 25 minutes after the plane went down therefore they were prepared in advance. In other words, it
was premeditated intentional murder. It was not the rebels and it was not an accident. It was Kiev.
I have read that the video was made public 5 hours later - not 25 minutes. Regardless, this strongly suggests that the
doctored tape had been in preparation BEFORE the incident.
In any case, if Ukraine were blameless in the incident, why would their security services have immediately attempted to
bamboozle the world with a doctored tape?
Here's an excerpt from an unpublished essay I wrote about 4 years ago (unpublished because I presumed it would be met with
mockery or indifference at DKos) that is pertinent:
Also curious is the fact that Ukrainian air traffic control directed MH-17 out of its usual path, so that it passed over
rebel-controlled area near Donetz. This is not known to have happened before. Immediately after the shoot-down, the Ukrainian
secret police (SBU) seized the air traffic control records for the flight, and have never released them. The new flight path
took the plane directly over the base of noted rebel commander Igor Bezler ("Bes"). Within five hours after the crash, SBU
released a video tape in which Bes appeared to be confirming that his forces had just shot down a plane; comments by other
rebels on the tape seem to imply that this plane was MH-17. Subsequent analysis indicated that Bes' comments had been taped
the day previous to the crash, and that he was referring to shoot down of a Ukrainian military plane; this was then spliced
to tape taken after the shoot down of MH-17, in which rebels referred to the crash site.
The Ukrainian secret police are said to have a particular animosity toward Commander Bes. How curious that, a day after
SBU obtains a tape of Bes referring to a plane shoot down, MH-17 is mysteriously routed right over Bes' base - and then SBU
tries to frame Bes within hours of the tragedy by releasing the misleading tape. Czech analyst Vladimir Suchan states that
"this almost could be a smoking gun" of a false flag attack.
With respect to deception by the Ukrainian government, the investigation by BND [German intelligence] indicated that photos
supplied by Kiev "have been manipulated"; however, they did not indicate what photos they were referring to. In any case, if
Ukraine was blameless in this affair, why wouldn't scrupulous honesty be their best policy? At this point, the balance of evidence
seems to point to the Ukrainian military – likely a rogue element controlled by neo-Nazis or an oligarch such as Kolomoisky
(who when interviewed referred to the MH-17 shoot down as "a trifle") -- acting without knowledge of the central government,
as the culprit. Parry cites several speculations regarding the motives of those involved. One theory is that the perpetrators
thought that they were shooting at Putin's plane returning from a recent trip to South America (he just had, but via a different
route). Another possibility is that they thought they were shooting at a Russian intruder returning to Russia. But the theory
that, according to Parry, is taken most seriously by elements of our intelligence community, is that the shoot-down was intended
as a false flag operation which could be blamed on the rebels or Russians. (These intelligence sources believe that the Ukrainian
central government was unaware of this plot.) If this is the case, then the ploy worked admirably, as the MH-17 shoot-down
was used to justify turning up the intensity of sanctions imposed on Russia – and most Americans still assume as a matter of
course that Russia or its rebel allies were responsible.
The most significant development since I wrote this is that the Russian-manufactured BUK whose fragments were found among the
wreckage and is presumed to have shot down MH17, was shown to have been transferred to the Ukrainian SSR prior to the dissolution
of the USSR, and hence must have been in the possession Ukraine when it became independent. This of course markedly strengthens
the case that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the shoot down.
There is however continued speculation that Ukrainian fighter jets also attacked MH17, as maintained by retired pilot Peter
Haisenko.
If we take it [a hacked audio conversation] seriously, it casts an interesting light on a once popular theory that Ukrainian
SU-25 jets, claimed by Russia to have tailed MH-17 (
https://www.rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/
- this is disputed by BND), fired upon it. This was supported by the observation that some of the holes in the cockpit of the
MH-17 had an appearance suggestive of machine gun fire.
Nonetheless, this theory cannot explain the bulk of the holes in the cockpit, and the conclusion that a BUK missile was
mainly responsible for downing the plane appears sound. This hack suggests a scenario in which an SU-25 fired on the jet but
was unable to bring it down, in part because, as is well known, it is difficult for such jets to fly at the 33,000 foot altitude
at which MH-17 was flying. This might explain a report that the plane veered sharply before it plummeted to earth. As the jet
attack had failed in its objective, a BUK missile was required to bring MH-17 down.
An audio communication between deputies of Kolomoisky and of the Ukrainian Defense Minister, allegedly hacked by the Russian
Kyber Berkut cybergroup, and cited in my old essay (gosh, this hacked communication is no longer available on-line - wonder why?),
lends itself to the view that Ukrainian jets first cannonaded MH17, causing it to swerve, but - because the jets were flying at
too high an altitude for their design - the BUK was then employed to complete the destruction of MH17.
The fact that the fighter jet theory has received no attention from the Ukraine-organized JIT (Joint Investigation Team) tasked
with investigating the shoot down is hardly surprising, since involvement of Ukrainian jets would evidently point the finger at
Ukraine as the culprit. Incredibly, this UN-recognized JIT agreed up-front that Ukraine, one of the chief suspects in the tragedy,
would have veto rights over the JIT's report.
We are left with a conundrum - was the attack on MH17 a conscious false flag (almost too barbaric to contemplate), or was
it a bungled attempt to shoot down a plane carrying Putin back from a trip to South America - the intent being to blame the shoot
down on the rebels?
The fact that, for unknown reasons, MH17 had been diverted by Ukraine air traffic control to fly right over the war zone
near Commander Bes speaks for the former possibility.
The conclusion by the JIT that Russia had been responsible for the shoot down is based on an implausible Rube Goldberg
scenario concocted by the "independent investigative group" Bellingcat; it is alleged that a Russian BUK had been trundled into
Ukraine (German satellite intelligence has ruled this out, but Germany wasn't invited to join the JIT), fired off one BUK to take
down MH17, then returned (by an illogical route) the next day. This narrative is "supported" in the main by photos and audios
helpfully provided by Ukrainian intelligence, some of which have been found to be doctored. (Who wudda thunk it?!) The JIT
readily accepted Bellingcat's explanation because it is in effect a kangaroo court organized by Ukraine and representing the interests
of NATO. (Malaysia does not accept this explanation, as its primary motivation is to determine what actually happened to its plane,
as opposed to furthering NATO's geopolitical agenda vilifying Russia.)
Whenever the Western Deep State has a false narrative it wishes to push, Bellingcat can be relied on to concoct "evidence"
supporting it. It has been a key perpetrator of the hoax regarding "Assad gassing his own people". In particular, Bellingcat pushed
the discredited view that Assad's forces had gassed Douma. It has also been intent on blaming Russian intelligence for the attack
on the Skripals.
The Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad, has called the decision by the Dutch-led investigative team to charge three
Ukranians and a Russian with murder in the downing of MH17 "ridiculous" and "politically motivated." This, of course, has resulted
in vigorous condemnations by the usual US sycophants.
The US, of course, values Russia as a Goldilocks enemy, technically advanced enough to be sold as a threat, thereby helping
to justify a ridiculous military budget, but not economically engaged with the US to an extent that maintaining them as an enemy
would seriously cut into corporate profits. Every time I look seriously into a main stream media allegation of Russian wrong doing,
it turns out to be propaganda unsupported by facts. While I know what is going on, the fact that we are being continuously lied
to and the facts that the msm and the "serious" politicians buy into this dreck so readily is a great source of fear and frustration.
"... Kolomoisky is the man who controls the recently elected Jewish president Zelensky -- a comedian. ..."
"... Let's not forget that Theresa May is the one who has worked assiduously on trying to overcome the results of the British referendum. She does not believe in democracy. ..."
"... This man most certainly made a substantial offshore payment to Largarde or her companies or her lawyers. That is how it works everywhere. ..."
She robbed the French taxpayer of some 404 billion Euros. The fact that she is not in
prison while protesters are being injured weekly by the French police tells you a lot about
why these people are protesting.
Since then, she has continued with her corrupt behaviour by greatly enriching the
Ukrainian/Israeli oligarch Kolomoisky -- who robbed his own bank.
How Christine Lagarde, Clinton and Nuland Funded a Massive Ukrainian Ponzi
Scheme
Kolomoisky is the man who controls the recently elected Jewish president Zelensky -- a
comedian.
I think the writer pays too much to the attire of May and Lagarde -- The pearls, the tweed
and gingham suits -- when their corruption is totally 21st century. Let's not forget that
Theresa May is the one who has worked assiduously on trying to overcome the results of the
British referendum. She does not believe in democracy. Replies: @Logan
, @George F.
Held
One of the functions of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) is imposing austerity
measures on the people of poor countries seeking bailouts, so perhaps choosing a corporate
lawyer to run it is fitting.
@Logan
ness tampering. After a high-profile case against public prosecutor Éric de
Montgolfier, he was sentenced in 1995 by the Court of Appeals of Douai to 2 years in prison,
including 8 months non-suspended and 3 years of deprivation of his civic rights.
Washington's recent attempt t o use the tragic downing of Malaysian flight MH-17 over the
Donbass region of Ukraine, which occurred on July 17, 2014 is nothing short of pathetic.
Instead of making an attempt to bring to justice those responsible for this crime it tries
instead to unleash yet another wave of anti-Russian hysteria. In this situation, it's only
logical that this latest attempt has gone down in flames yet again.
It would seem that everything was done in accordance with a carefully drafted script. We've
had a major media show with the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) coming forward to announce that
the investigation was nearing closure. It's curious that among those countries that have sent
their representatives to JIT one can find Ukraine, a possible perpetrator of the attack on
MH-17, alongside the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, and Belgium. Then we had the typical bad
guy – Russia, that in the opinion of the JIT was most certainly responsible for the
downing of MH-17 and the untimely demise of 298 people. Western puppets would even go as far as
to release the names of four people allegedly responsible for the attack.
As for the puppeteers, they would use the head of the US Department of State, Michael Pompeo
for making appeals to Russia to immediately put in jail those people the JIT described as
perpetrators.
However, this entire propaganda push would only work on day-to-day consumers of American
media, who still believe that Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi "got what they deserved" and
that Iran and North Korea somehow represent some sort of threat to the international community.
However, there's an ever growing number of people in the world who wouldn't fall for such lies
anymore, as they've seen them all too often before.
There's little doubt that the Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad is among such
people, as he made it
pretty clear that there's no proof whatsoever of Russia's involvement in the downing of
MH-17. In fact, he would claim that:
" We are very unhappy because from the very beginning it became a political issue on
how to accuse Russia of the wrongdoing So far there is no proof. Only hearsay."
In turn, the founder of the conservative Dutch party Forum for Democracy, Thierry Baudet
would announce that he has no confidence whatsoever in the JIT and its impartiality, while
pointing out that Ukraine must be responsible for this attack.
According to Heise, there's
no doubt that Kiev is fully responsible for this tragedy, as it had failed to close the
airspace over the contested territories of Donbass and withheld evidence from the
investigation. It would add that the Dutch Safety Board was conducting its own investigation of
the downing and at some point was convinced that Kiev was behind this attack, however it left a
legal loophole for Kiev for it to escape any consequences. As for Russia, Heise argues, it was
decided to name it responsible for this tragedy, since Ukraine was acting on Washington's
behalf in this downing and it will continue enjoying its protection.
It's curious that t he JIT final report has left a lot of questions unanswered, most of them
emerge due to the absence of any actual evidence that could allow this body to allocate
responsibility for the catastrophe to some party and could be used in court. Yet, the
Netherlands and Australia were quick to announce that they had no doubt whatsoever, even though
JIT would cite pictures and messages taken from social media as their sources of information.
It didn't bother those behind the so-called final report that they had no access to the
Pentagon's satellite images and any sort of data from Ukrainian radars, even though those could
serve as actual evidence along with similar data Russia provided to shed light on the actual
perpetrators of the attack.
The claims that certain Western media sources would make, about the downing of MH17
"rallying the West against Russia" can only be described as laughable, even though it's clear
that this was Washington's initial intention which led to the release of the "final report"
Yet another attempt to present Russia as a bogeyman has garnered no sympathy in Europe,
especially against the backdrop of revelations London has recently made about the role of its
intelligence agencies in the downing of PA 103 three decades ago. Back then a bomb that
exploded on board Pan American Flight 103, en route from London to New York was used to
undermine Libya and warrant the overthrow of its leader – Muammar Qaddafi. What this
false-flag essentially required was the falsification of evidence and the conviction in a
rigged court proceeding of the wrong man. The extent of that operation has recently been
exposed in a partial release of British Government documents from the UK ' s National
Archives.
It's been noted that those archive disclosures also show that the same modus operandi has
been under way since 2014 to fabricate blame for the destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight
MH17 over Ukraine, and justify global sanctions against Russia, plus operations to overthrow
Vladimir Putin.
That is why Malaysia must take the investigation into its own hands and receive all the
necessary assistance from the international community to establish who was responsible for the
MH17 downing. It's clear that the JIT was more concerned with pleasing Washington than
establishing the truth.
*
Note to readers: please click the share buttons above or below. Forward this article to your
email lists. Crosspost on your blog site, internet forums. etc.
Grete Mautner is an independent researcher and journalist from Germany, exclusively for
the online magazine " New Eastern
Outlook. "
"... That nearly five-year investigation has never provided any credible proof of Russian culpability, yet the Dutch-led investigators known as the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) continually level allegations that Russia supplied an anti-aircraft missile to Ukrainian rebels who purportedly blasted the Boeing 777 out of the sky. ..."
"... However, Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad denounced the report as "ridiculous hearsay" aimed at "scapegoating Russia". Tellingly, his comments were not widely reported in Western media. ..."
"... On the back of the MH17 imbroglio, as well as other slanders, Western governments have continued to impose economic sanctions on Russia. These sanctions have cost the Russian economy an estimated $50 billion. On top of that, Western states and their media portray Russia and President Putin as a rogue regime and pariah. ..."
"... There were two suspects: Russia and Kiev. The JIT not only included one of the suspects (Kiev) as part of the JIT, Kiev could also cancel any evidence that involved Kiev complicity in MH17. ..."
"... MH17 flight was normally a Southern route, but the route was changed to Northern, over the war zone between Rebels and Kiev. Guess who had authority to change the route of a plane entering their country. And, why would they change that route - hmmm. ..."
"... The lead investigator of JIT refused to consider any evidence presented by Russia. ..."
"... Western hypocrisy and duplicity. Tell us something we don't know. Like NATO's purpose being mutual defense. NATO's purpose is NWO recruitment. ..."
First there was the Dutch-led inquiry into downing of the Malaysian MH17 airliner, which put
the finger of blame on Russia for the disaster in 2014 when all 298 people onboard were
killed.
That nearly five-year investigation has never provided any credible proof of Russian
culpability, yet the Dutch-led investigators known as the Joint Investigation Team (JIT)
continually level allegations that Russia supplied an anti-aircraft missile to Ukrainian rebels
who purportedly blasted the Boeing 777 out of the sky.
Despite its evident failures of due process, nonetheless Western governments and media have
lent the JIT allegations (slanders) undue credibility. The US, Britain and other NATO members
last week called on Russia to comply with the JIT "investigation", smearing Moscow as guilty of
causing the MH17 deaths.
However, Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad denounced the report as "ridiculous
hearsay" aimed at "scapegoating Russia". Tellingly, his comments were not widely reported in
Western media.
For its part, Russia has vehemently
rejected allegations of involvement in the MH17 disaster, as have pro-Russian Ukrainian
rebels. Russia's repeated offers of contributing information to the probe have been rebuffed by
the Dutch-led JIT. By contrast, Russia's own investigation has uncovered credible radar and
forensic evidence that an anti-aircraft missile fired at the passenger jet actually came from
military forces under the Kiev regime's command. Russia's evidence has been steadfastly ignored
by Western media reports.
The credible suspect party -- Kiev political and intelligence authorities -- have been
allowed to participate in and frame the JIT probe to inculpate Russia. The US, European Union
and NATO back the Neo-Nazi dominated regime in Kiev, financially and
militarily , since it seized power in a violent coup d'état back in 2014. That
should be the real focus of scandal in the MH17 story.
On the back of the MH17 imbroglio, as well as other slanders, Western governments have
continued to impose economic sanctions on Russia. These sanctions have cost the Russian economy
an estimated $50 billion. On top of that, Western states and their media portray Russia and
President Putin as a rogue regime and pariah.
Now contrast the undue priority given to the above dubious JIT claims with two other reports
also out last week.
One was on the horrific death toll among civilians in
Yemen inflicted by the Western-backed Saudi-led war on that country. It is estimated that over
90,000 people have been killed in violence over the past four years, with most of the civilian
victims caused by indiscriminate Saudi air strikes.
It is an indisputable fact that the US, Britain, France, Germany and other NATO powers have
been arming the Saudi regime with warplanes, helicopters, missiles and logistics to carry out
this slaughter of Yemeni civilians. The Western states are complicit in war crimes.
President Trump continues to defy US lawmakers by ordering multi-billion-dollar arms sales
to Saudi Arabia, despite the carnage. The British government and wannabe prime minister Boris
Johnson claims that its weapons exports are not involved in killing Yemeni civilians, in
blatant denial of the facts.
A British court last week
ruled that UK weapons exports were in breach of its own supposed ethical codes protecting
civilian lives in conflicts. The British government is set to appeal the court ruling and will
likely ignore it anyway given the systematic relationship of Britain arming Saudi Arabia -- the
UK's biggest weapons export market -- year after year.
Western media last week, as usual, gave only minimal reporting on the shocking human
suffering in Yemen. The whole barbarity and Western governments' culpability is largely
hushed-up and omitted by the media.
... ... ...
Meanwhile, the US and its NATO allies impose sanctions on Russia based on unsubstantiated
allegations about MH17, Ukraine, Crimea, election meddling, the Skripal spy poisoning affair,
among other fabrications. Those sanctions -- based on flimsy innuendo -- are leading to
ever-worsening relations with Russia and international tensions between nuclear powers. Western
media do not expose the insanity, they foment it.
Such media are unwilling and incapable of pointing out this gross double standard. They
propagate the double standard.
The moral bankruptcy of Western governments must be covered up by a servile media. Because
the state, corporate power and media are all complicit.
Truth, justice and democracy, which they pontificate about, have nothing to do with the
functioning of Western capitalist power; they're mere illusions to distract from systematic
criminality. Last week was an object lesson for those willing to see it.
There were two suspects: Russia and Kiev. The JIT not only included one of the suspects
(Kiev) as part of the JIT, Kiev could also cancel any evidence that involved Kiev complicity
in MH17.
MH17 flight was normally a Southern route, but the route was changed to Northern, over the
war zone between Rebels and Kiev. Guess who had authority to change the route of a plane
entering their country. And, why would they change that route - hmmm.
The lead investigator of JIT refused to consider any evidence presented by Russia.
In Kiev, the "Khazar mafia" is strong, more precisely Chabad Lyubavichi (headquarters in
New York). Kolomoisky (a member of Chabad Lyubavichi and the owner of the Nazi death squads in the former Ukraine) ...
Western hypocrisy and duplicity. Tell us something we don't know. Like NATO's purpose
being mutual defense. NATO's purpose is NWO recruitment. The whore running the recruit victim
country is promised personal bribes, and the security services of the gang which it must also
support and pay for, in return for forgoing a degree of sovereignty. NATO is just another NWO
one centrally managed world scam.
First, let's look at Bellingcat involvement in Ukraine.
On July 11th 2014 an event happened that shook my world, literally. Bellingcat
reported that the Russians attacked Ukrainian armed forces from across the border in
Zelenopillya. The Ukrainians suffered traumatic losses. Once again, Eliot Higgins provides the
data to determine this. Once again Bellingcat was wrong about the origin of the attack.
This single battle marked the turning point for the entire war. The Donbass militia went on
a large offensive for the first time and destroyed a big Ukrainian encampment with a rocket
attack.
How can I afford to be so assertive? At 4:30 in the morning on July 11th every house in my
town started shaking because of the massive explosions going on at Zelenopillya. I did say it
shook my world, didn't I?
I was between the Russian border and the camp. We could see the smoke from the rockets and
the
sky was lit with the explosions . The
explosions were loud enough to wake the dead that morning. There were no rockets flying
over my head. For Russia to fire them, that's exactly where they would have been.
At that point we were under Ukrainian occupation for a couple of months. Two days before the
attack on Zelenopillya happened, a Ukrainian army officer told the post master to get the
children out of town within 2 days. The army was pulling out and a cleansing battalion (Donbas
battalion) was coming in to weed out "separatists and supporters." That was when I came face to
face with Mark
Paslowsky, the American nazi . The article gives his background and tells what was going
on.
Bellingcat misidentifies the weapon as artillery. Grad rockets were fired at Zelenopillya by
the Rovenki militia that day. I spoke with the militia that fired them about 1 week after the
fact. In the linked articles the Ukrainians state plainly that it was militia using Grad
rockets.
The Ukrainians took some of their wounded across the border to Russia. It's not quite
something you do if Russia was really attacking you. The worst injuries were treated locally.
Donbass people ran there after the battle to help the wounded and the Ukrainian soldiers were
treated at local hospitals. Ukraine abandoned them.
The story got a lot of play in the west in the west as a Russian attack on Ukraine thanks to
this event. It was added to the list of reasons to sanction Russia. If the attack on
Zelenopillya didn't happen, I probably wouldn't be here to write this.
For the third time on an important event, Bellingcat shows it cannot identify the origin or
firing location of a weapon and misidentifies both the weapon type and the direction of fire in
media.
Getting the facts straight about the MH-17 shoot down is the difference between hundreds of
families getting justice and closure for those deaths or never seeing it. Convict the wrong
party and justice is never served. New victims are made with false or erroneous evidence.
Bellingcat's importance to the JIT (Joint Investigative Team) investigation of MH-17 is
apparent through all the media Higgins and Toler are quoted in media as the independent
experts.
That last statement should grab your attention. Bellingcat and its founders Elliot Higgins
and Aric Toler's credibility rests on the fact that they are independent researchers. If they
are working for an interested party in any investigation, Bellingcat's credibility is destroyed
and their research means nothing. After all, it's been paid for.
Bellingcat really grabbed the public's attention and imagination after the shoot down of
flight MH-17 over Ukraine. Independent researchers Higgins and Toler went to work to find the
missile launch site and the responsible parties, or did they?
As early as February 2014, Higgins showed the beginning of a clear pattern regarding
Ukraine. In the tweet below this OSINT expert researcher was linking to a
1 month old blog started by
Sviatoslav Yurash . What's special about Yurash at this time is that he was Ukrainian
ultranationalist Dimitry Yarosh's English language spokesman. If that well known fact wasn't
enough to caution Higgins, what was?
In the next article to follow, starting with Yurash as the first example, I'll show you how
all these volunteer experts including Higgins get paid. The article will further cement and
establish the relationships between Bellingcat, Weisburd, Watts and other intel and news
headline providers with each other as well as their employers.
For now, the admission made by the Ukrainian Information Ministry and Aric Toler will have
to be enough.
In
addition, already 21 November Dmitry Zolotukhin met with his US counterpart, team
representative Bellingcat Arik Toler , who conducted a similar training for journalists in Kyiv
on the invitation of Media Development Foundation. They also discussed the possibility of
holding a conference in Kiev on thematic instruments OSINT-use techniques in the modern media."
One of the Media Development Center's
sponsors is NATO . It is a project of the US Embassy in Kiev because of the association
with the embassy's diplomatic paper, the Kyiv Post.
If that isn't enough, let's see how close Bellingcat's Aric Toler views the
relationship.
According to both Information Policy Advisor Dmitry Zolotukhin and Toler, they are partners.
Eric Toler and Eliot Higgins(Bellingcat), along with Aaron Weisburd, Clint Watts, and
Joel
Harding have been working with the same Ukrainian Information Ministry that started the
"Mytorovyets" or Peacekeeper website.
They help the SBU geo-locate people in Ukraine. As shown above, they also train people to
geo-locate anyone considered anti-Maidan or anti-nationalist in Ukraine. They didn't
disappoint.
I think this pretty well sums up how independent Bellingcat's investigation has been. To add
insult to injury, Higgins and Toler work directly with previously identified Ukrainian
Intelligence hackers and Pravy Sektor members (ultra-nationalist Ukrainians) to get Bellingcat
"independent research" information.
InformNapalm and its hackers are Ukrainian Intel agents working for the Information
Ministry. In their own words – The main activities of the project are
collecting and analysing OSINT-information , found in open
sources, including social networks. InformNapalm's investigation of 53rd Artillery Brigade
commander colonel Sergei Muchkayev, suspected of killing the MH17 passengers, was used in
the report of the Bellingcat research team .
Who was the information source for independent researchers at Bellingcat? Dimitry Yarosh's
best friend, Valentyn Nalivaychenko was one of them. In the spring of 2014, he replaced
SBU(Ukraine's Security Service) personnel with ultra-nationalists because they had the right
ideology. Another was Anton Gerashchenko who is responsible for persecuting the press in
Ukraine.
In
few days and hours after the crash of MH17 Ukrainian officials widely publicly discussed
all that data (except the photo of "Paris Match") anonymously downloaded by someone to social
nets. For example on July 17 Gerashchenko (The ministry of internal affairs) showed the photo
of Buk at Torez; on July 18 Avakov (The ministry of internal affairs) showed the video of Buk
at Luhansk; also on July 18 Nalivaychenko (the chief of Ukrainian security service) showed the
video of Buk at Snizhne, and on July 19 Vitaliy Naida (Ukrainian security service) showed shot
fragment of video frame (not the video itself) from Zugres.
Under the best circumstances Bellingcat's research can only be seen as a Ukrainian
Intelligence production. If neither Higgins or Toler were actively engaged with Ukrainian
operations on the many levels that they are, their source material is still very tainted. When
all your research material comes from a party under investigation, you are no longer a neutral
party. You can't pee in a blood sample and call it evidence. Are Higgins and Toler credible?
You decide.
Max van der Werff has become a go-to resource for understanding information about MH-17. I
have spoken at length with Max and his fellow researchers @bellingmouse. This linked article shows the strength of research
these REAL volunteers have brought to the MH-17 investigation . I had to ask Max the great
who-dun-it question. His response was after thousands of hours of research, he didn't know. Too
many people were withholding information and remaining uncooperative on all sides.
What he was sure of is that Bellingcat's research is shoddy and a lot of the evidence
appears fabricated.
Max van der Werf has been interviewed by the JIT investigative team on 4 occasions, given
over 6 hours of recorded interviews to them, as well as over 14GB of data.
Examples of this include the fact that all of the images and video are such low quality and
resolution, it's impossible to make definite determinations from them.
One of the chase vehicles (jeep) in Bellingcat's BUK convoy is driving with the door open.
In another image of the BUK transport supposedly taken by a local resident, the apartment was
not occupied in the summer of 2014. There was no one there to take the image. It was again so
grainy and low quality that even a military vehicle substitution was not noticeable. None of
the neighbors that were there saw a BUK on a trailer.
The route of travel according to Bellingcat would have taken the BUK launcher toward the
conflict zone twice while battles were being fought across the region. Anyone familiar with the
area or that had a map would take a direct route which would have made it much less noticeable
driving through unpopulated areas.
Images taken after the shoot down are just as bad. Some unimportant parts of the image are
in focus while it's almost impossible to make out the BUK even though it's right beside the
photographer.
The so-called wire-tapped conversation was proven to be a Ukrainian SBU production. How is
it still a part of the evidence chain?
What van der Werff and @bellingmouse have proven unequivocally is that another investigation
needs to take place that looks for real evidence. The JIT, for their part had the impossible
task of investigating a hostile shoot-down of a jetliner with no previous airline disaster
investigation experience in a war zone that was active. The problem with it is objectivity was
thrown out the window as soon as Ukraine got the right to reject evidence and control what
would be made public.
What has looking for Ruskies done? In the eyes of Congress it made you and every publication
that strives for neutral information or even writing from their political slant a Ruskie. You
work for Vladimir Putin.
It has taken away any hope of justice for people in Syria and the families of MH-17 victims
unless real neutral investigations take place.
It's taken away real news from the masses and replaced it with policy pieces from people
that get paid to hate you. You are after all, the Russian interference that they talk
about.
"... I am sure that this case will be resolved as follows:- Relations with Russia will be normalised; Rogue Ukrainian military officers and pilots will be found responsible; These rogue officers/pilots will be roundly condemned but they cannot be brought to justice because they're already dead (yes, they've already been killed - they just followed orders but they've already been killed). When you hear this in a year or two, please remind yourself that this was probably a war crime committed by America while Obama was President. ..."
What will prove to the real big lasting news over the last couple of week was when the
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad called the Joint Investigation Team's (JIT)
position on the MH17 case politically motivated and unproven:
"We are very unhappy, because from the very beginning it was a political issue on how to
accuse Russia of wrongdoing,"
This is tantamount to the Malaysian Prime Minster saying Russia was framed and is getting
really close to the likelihood that the shooting down of MH17 with 298 deaths was an
intentional American plan/act (Ukraine would not have done it without US instruction). There
are so many strange things about the shooting down of the MH-17 that it really is very
unlikely that Russia or the Donetsk or Luhansk rebels had anything to do with it.
Now think what that means. The MH-17 was shot down in 2014 very likely as part of a US
plan to frame Russia while Obama was President. And you Americans have no real concern about
this? You don't exert any kind of pressure on your representatives, you just don't think it's
important.
I am sure that this case will be resolved as follows:- Relations with Russia will be
normalised; Rogue Ukrainian military officers and pilots will be found responsible; These
rogue officers/pilots will be roundly condemned but they cannot be brought to justice because
they're already dead (yes, they've already been killed - they just followed orders but
they've already been killed). When you hear this in a year or two, please remind yourself
that this was probably a war crime committed by America while Obama was President.
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad is generally always outspoken and defies the
establishment... when i was in malaysia in 2016 i happened to pick up his autobiography which
i quite enjoyed.. i am happy to see he is back and speaking his mind.. it's always refreshing
even if a person doesn't agree with him.. he is also one of the few leaders in the world
today that i actually consider a 'leader'... the malaysians are lucky to still have him as pm
today...
The investigation into the crash of the MH17 Malaysia Airlines plane in East Ukraine was always compromised, right from the start.
The crash on July 17 2014 came shortly after the "Euromaidan revolution" in Kiev – which first began in November 2013 and culminated
in the ousting of elected president Yanukovich on 23 February 2014, happily helped along by John McCain, Victoria Nuland and then-US
ambassador to Ukraine (now ambassador to Greece) Geoffrey Pyatt for the USA, as well as various EU actors.
Russia reacted by "annexing"
Crimea – a large majority of whose people had voted for Yanukovich, thereby safeguarding its access to its only warm water port.
Not a shot was fired there, but it was very different in East Ukraine (Donbass), where people -of Russian origin- also didn't want
to be subjected to a new regime under Nuland's puppet Yatsenyuk -and later Poroshenko. They started a civil war which continues to
this day.
It was in that heated political climate that the MH17 came down, killing all its 298 passengers, 196 of whom had the Dutch nationality.
3 weeks later, on August 8, a Joint Investigation Team (JIT) was formed, which was to be led by Holland, and to also include representatives
from Australia, Belgium and Ukraine. Which is odd, since at that time, Ukraine certainly was a potential perpetrator of the downing.
Malaysia joined only in December, allegedly because only then did it finally agree to allow Ukraine, a nation that was a suspect,
a veto over any conclusions that the team would publish. Malaysia had already been handed the black boxes by pro-Russian rebels in
the area, and passed them on to the team in August. Summarized, the way the JIT was formed was highly curious. The countries even
signed a secret agreement.
Immediately after the crash, people like then-US VP Joe Biden, as well as Frans Timmermans, then-Dutch Foreign Minister and today
candidate for the EU top job, pointed the finger at Russia as the party responsible for shooting down the plane. Also curious, since
there had been no investigation and the plane crashed in a civil war zone where access was almost impossible. There was talk at the
time of the US having satellite images, but none have ever been produced.
In that atmosphere, the JIT yesterday, June 19 2019, held another press conference, in which it accused four men, three from Russia
and one from Ukraine, of being "involved" in shooting down the plane. But again, almost 5 years after the incident, the team produced
no evidence for its accusations, saying it will only be presented 9 months from now when a trial will start in the Netherlands.
It also again accused Russia of refusing to cooperate, though Russia has offered its help ever since the MH17 came down. It's
just not the help the people want who have accused the Russians since before there was any hint of evidence it was involved. And
there still is no evidence. Russia has filed long and detailed reports on the incident despite being ignored, but these reports have
been ignored.
The trial will take place starting March 9 2020 without the accused, since Russia doesn't extradite its citizens, and neither
does Ukraine. Moreover, the one Ukrainian who is accused is thought to be in the Donbass, where the government has no access.
So this will be a show trial. And one must wonder why it is staged. What's the use of a trial where defendants don't defend themselves?
Sure, the official line is they would love to have the men provide a defense, but that smells a bit too much like what has happened
to Julian Assange. What are the odds of a fair trial when so many conclusions have been drawn at such early times?
There is not a soul in Europe west of the Russian border who doesn't believe the Russians did it. The media take care of that.
Nor is there in the US. But the Malaysian PM himself yesterday, again, said the team has proven nothing, and only provided hearsay.
I kid you not, I read a piece on the BBC today that asked if the 93-year-old who lost 43 of his countrymen only said that because
he wanted to sell palm oil to Russia.
And in the meantime, the evidence is not there, and won't be for another 9 months, if ever, and the EU today added another year
to its Russia sanctions over Crimea, and 4 men can deny their involvement all they want, but they can make their case only in March
2020, and only at a show trial, with international search warrants hanging over their heads.
The four men in question, by the way, are not accused of firing the BUK missile that supposedly downed the MH17. They are only
accused of facilitating the transport of the missile and launcher from Russia to Ukraine -and back. The JIT Ukrainian team bases
the entire story of that transport on serial numbers it says it has found.
On September 17 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense in a YouTube response to a May 24 2018 JIT exhibition, said it had tracked
down those serial numbers, 8868720, and 1318869032, and 9M38, and said both the launcher and missile corresponding to the numbers
were purchased by Ukraine from Russia as far back as 1986, transferred there, and had never left the country since.
I get that information from a lengthy, deep-digging and highly recommended essay by Eric Zuesse, from December 2018,
MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's Guilt Now Proven,
which I've been reading the past few days, in which Eric says: " if the JIT's supplied evidence is authentic - which the Ukrainian
team asserts it to be - then it outright convicts Ukraine. This is an evidentiary checkmate, against the Ukrainian side."
Zuesse also details, in that article, contentions from multiple sources that, while the MH17 may have been hit with a BUK missile,
it certainly wasn't the only thing that hit it. There was at least one fighter jet seen close to the plane before it came down, as
multiple eye-witness reports claim, and it is alleged that they fired on the cockpit for sure and perhaps other parts of the plane.
It is an excellent article that is very well researched and chock-full of links to prove its points.
There are many things wrong with the MH17 investigation. Having the PM of one of your member investigative countries complain
that after 5 years you produce only hearsay and no evidence may be the least of the worries. The Netherlands, as main victim, leading
the investigation, is strange. How neutral could they be? Their Foreign Minister blamed Russia way before any investigating was done.
And Holland was a main sponsor in the "Euromaidan revolution", i.e. the ousting of an elected president.
Still, Ukraine's position in all this must be the biggest warning sign. They stood a lot to gain from committing atrocities and
then blaming Russia for them. Plus, Yatsenyuk and Nuland and the US and the EU were mightily angry that Russia had outsmarted them
all over Crimea.
But instead of keeping Ukraine out of the investigation, they became a major contributor, and were even given veto rights on anything
that came out of it, as far as we know the only party with such rights. If you present a crime novel or movie with ingredients like
that, nobody would believe you. Such things don't happen in real life.
Joint Research Team (JIT) – etterforskningsteamet created in 2014 to investigate the
crash of Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 over Eastern Ukraine on 17. July 2014, which resulted
in 298 deaths-announced the 19. June that the public prosecution in the Netherlands shall
criminally prosecute four persons for murder.
The four suspects – Igor Girkin, Sergeij Dubinskij, Oleg Juldasjevitsj (all three
russians) and Leonid Khartsjenko (Ukrainian citizen) – were, and are in some cases still
are, active as leaders of the Russian-supported separatism uprising in Donbass. They are now
facing international arrest orders and will be brought to justice on the 9th. March 2020. Since
the Netherlands cannot require extradiction from either Russia or Ukraine, it is likely that
the case will be brought, and that the defendants will be sentenced in absentia.
The four men, as well as the Russian government, claim that they did not at all have any
dealings with the plane crash. The Russian president Vladimir Putin reiterated Russia's
rejection of the JIT, the commission, and said during a "åpenlinje" the questioning at
the Russian TV last Friday that he was "completely disagree" with the evidence that the
commission promoted.
The Malaysian president Mahathir Mohamad condemned the charges as politically motivated:
"What the us concern, we will have evidence on skyldighet. But so far there is no evidence.
Just rumors."
The shooting down of the plane happened at the height of the crisis in Ukraine and civil war
in 2014, triggered by the united STATES - and Germany-supported the coup in Kiev in 2014, which
was led by fasciststyrker and parts of the Ukrainian oligarchat, in close collaboration with
Washington and Berlin. The Ukrainian and the us government, the EUROPEAN union and the
international bourgeois media rushed to accuse Russia for the shooting down of the plane, even
before any alleged evidence was presented. It was utilized as a new variant of "Gulf of
Tonkin", a vague and dubious military event that imperialistmaktene could use as a pretext for
war.
The MH-17 case has been out of limelight in recent years. The military structure toward
Russia, led by the united STATES and NATO, and the U.S.-led economic warfare against the
country, however, has accelerated.
The announcement last week about the criminal persecution came at the same time with an
escalation of both the Trump administration's krigsforberedelser against Iran, which could
trigger a direct conflict with Russia, and The democratic party's ongoing campaign against
Trump, focusing on his allegedly "soft" attitude to Russia. It also comes at the same time with
the growing conflicts between the united STATES and the european imperialistmaktene, especially
Germany, among others, of Russian gassforsyninger to Germany through the pipeline
NordStream2.
The western bourgeois press jumped on the announcement and produced a flood of comments,
which the New York Times' redaksjonsråd suggested that flystyrten was not less than
"state-sponsored murder". International media such as Der Spiegel essentially presented JIT's
announcement and "discovery" for its readers as facts.
The Washington Post wrote that the "international investigators" had "worked diligently to
uncover the truth" and "peel away Russia's lies about the downed Malaysian Airlines plane". The
newspaper rejected without further evidence presented by the Russian federation for a possible
Ukrainian involvement as "false".
In fact, JIT's announcement of the criminal prosecution of these four men is based on
ancient discoveries that have no credibility. JIT investigation are significantly biased and
part of a massive campaign to exploit the 298 men's tragic death in order to escalate the
antiRussland krigsforberedelser. After almost five years with this "investigation" has not been
presented any evidence of Russian state involvement, and significant evidence which points to a
potential Ukrainian involvement has been deliberately suppressed.
JITs "findings" that claim that a Russian SA-11 BUK-missile system allegedly was carried by
the Russian army to russiskstøttede østukrainske the separatists were
continuously referred to as "evidence" of Russian involvement.
An engraver report by journalist Robert Parry in 2016 pointed to several holes and
contradictions in this version. The other piece of "evidence" is barely audible phone calls,
supposedly avlytninger of the Russian military sources, which should indicate that the SA-11
BUK-missilsystemet was deliberately delivered to the separatists. These calls refers, however,
not at any point explicitly to the missle system or to transport across the Russian-Ukrainian
border.
The fact that not only Russian but also American and Dutch intelligence has found evidence
suggesting Ukrainian involvement, is entirely omitted from the official press coverage.
In October 2015 raised the Dutch intelligence service MIVD that the only
high-energy-antifly-missilsystemene in Eastern Ukraine could have shot down MH-17, where it was
flying at 33 000 feet altitude belonged to the Ukrainian military.
An anonymous u.s. intelligence analyst explained in 2015 that "finally, the analysis pointed
at a non-authorized Ukrainian operation, which involved a pro-regime oligarch. "Malaysian news
media reported as early as in august 2014 that the official representative for American
intelligence assumed that the aircraft had been shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet. Official
Russian militærrepresentanter has also released radar data that seemed to show a
Ukrainian jetfighter of the type Sukhoi-25 behind the passasjerflyet MH 17 at the time it was
shot down.
JIT-etterforskningens primary goal has been to suppress and divert attention from any
evidence that suggests the Ukrainian rather than the Russian involvement. Not a single report
produced by the commission in the last five years have once tried to avsanne the evidence
pointing to the Ukrainian military involvement in the nedskyvningen of the aircraft. They were
simply ignored.
This is no coincidence. Contrary to the way it is presented by the media, JIT is not an
independent body of "international investigators". It includes representatives of the Dutch,
belgian, malaysian and Ukrainian government and the secret services. From the very beginning,
the Russian government has been excluded from participating in the investigations.
Although Ukraine itself should have been considered as a suspected part in any serious
investigation, not only the cooperation JIT with Kiev, but operated under an agreement that
made it possible for the Ukrainian government to veto the release of information. There could
hardly have been a more obvious case of disqualification.
The Ukrainian secret service (SBU), who was heavily involved in both the
imperialiststøttede fascistkuppet in Kiev in February 2014, and in subsequent operations
of the ytrehøyrekrefter in the civil war, was Ukraine's official representative in the
JIT. The SBU massively influenced the investigation.
An internal JIT report from 2016, said: "Since the first week in september 2014 has
investigators from the Netherlands and Australia worked here [in Kiev]. They work here in close
cooperation with Ukraine's security service (SBU). Immediately after the crash, the SBU gave
access to a large number of tapped phone calls and other data. ... While at first it was rather
formal, cooperation with the SBU has become more and more flexible. 'Particularly because of
the data analysis we were able to prove our added value,' says [the Dutch politirepresentaten]
Gert Van Doorn. 'Since then, we see in every way that they associate with us in an open way.
They share their questions with us, and think with, as much as they can.'"
It was, incidentally, also SBU who provided the avlyttede the phone calls and other
materials that are now being universally referred to as "evidence" for a Russian
involvement.
Despite these obvious contradictions and violations of the legitimate
etterforskningsprosedyre, presented JITs "findings" and the actions that are credible,
definitive "proof" for the "Russian guilt". This witness again to what lengths bourgeois media
and western imperialister is prepared to go, in their criminal and dangerous campaign against
Russia – a ruthless campaign that could trigger a war between the world's two largest
atomvåpenmakter.
Regarding the JIT indictments, the JIT has dropped all pretense of
objectivity, which isn't surprising since it was a criminal co-conspiracy
from its inception. They have now revealed themselves as nothing but
a hit squad and lynch mob for the real perpetrators. Russia should
be building a case for a criminal referral of the JIT to the ICC.
It has a pretty solid case since the JIT investigation has devolved into
an obscene travesty involving reams of incriminating actions by the JIT,
which has willfully smothered all the hard, factual, scientific evidence
and fraudulently promoted all the fake, phony fabrications of the high perps.
Charging the JIT with collusion in mass murder may be a reach, but the indictments
of Strelkov et alia is so off the wall and batshit insane there surely must be
grounds for prosecutorial misconduct.
I agree the JIT has become a fraudulent enterprise. To publicly announce indictments while
simultaneously pleading for witnesses to step forward to help confirm the theory on which the
indictments are based - that is not a judicial procedure as commonly understood. The JIT has
taken like OPCW - a public relations arm of NATO concerned solely with filtering biased
information to western publics.
"... The crash on July 17 2014 came shortly after the "Euromaidan revolution" in Kiev – which first began in November 2013 and culminated in the ousting of elected president Yanukovich on 23 February 2014, happily helped along by John McCain, Victoria Nuland and then-US ambassador to Ukraine (now ambassador to Greece) Geoffrey Pyatt for the USA, as well as various EU actors. ..."
"... Malaysia joined only in December, allegedly because only then did it finally agree to allow Ukraine, a nation that was a suspect, a veto over any conclusions that the team would publish. Malaysia had already been handed the black boxes by pro-Russian rebels in the area, and passed them on to the team in August. Summarized, the way the JIT was formed was highly curious . The countries even signed a secret agreement. ..."
"... Immediately after the crash, people like then-US VP Joe Biden, as well as Frans Timmermans, then-Dutch Foreign Minister and today candidate for the EU top job, pointed the finger at Russia as the party responsible for shooting down the plane. Also curious, since there had been no investigation and the plane crashed in a civil war zone where access was almost impossible. There was talk at the time of the US having satellite images, but none have ever been produced. ..."
"... " if the JIT's supplied evidence is authentic -- which the Ukrainian team asserts it to be -- then it outright convicts Ukraine. This is an evidentiary checkmate, against the Ukrainian side." ..."
"... Zuesse also details, in that article, contentions from multiple sources that, while the MH17 may have been hit with a BUK missile, it certainly wasn't the only thing that hit it. There was at least one fighter jet seen close to the plane before it came down, as multiple eye-witness reports claim, and it is alleged that they fired on the cockpit for sure and perhaps other parts of the plane. It is an excellent article that is very well researched and chock-full of links to prove its points. ..."
"... Still, Ukraine's position in all this must be the biggest warning sign. They stood a lot to gain from committing atrocities and then blaming Russia for them. Plus, Yatsenyuk and Nuland and the US and the EU were mightily angry that Russia had outsmarted them all over Crimea. ..."
"... The Malaysians - who should have had a leading role in the investigation - have been relegated to subservience, even treating their dead according to strictures laid down by 'the investigation' - ie no autopsies of the cabin crew. They, too, have raised the complaint of politics getting in the way of finding the truth. ..."
"... The Dutch government went in full MH17 cover-up mode. The Dutch minister of justice even declared that publicly disagreeing with the JIT MH17 report equals with undermining the democratic order of the country. But the JIT MH17 report is an easy to debunk farce. ..."
"... ...and most of us here at ZH regard any "official" story with suspicion. If it's a matter involving geopolitics, especially Russia, it's assumed to be ******** until proven otherwise. Unpatriotic? The ones who have betrayed the US are the ones who have dishonored by their actions and lies. ..."
"... Obammy and his merry band of neocunts ordered that plane shot out of the sky to justify sanctions on Russia. This is certainly one case where red/blue team were on the same team. ..."
"... Hromadske TV news channel was set up in the Ukraine in 2013 immediately prior to the Euromaidan overthrow of the Ukraine government. That TV news channel played an important role in the Euromaidan. The biggest funder of Hromadske TV was The Netherlands. ..."
"... So think about that when talking about the "neutrality" of The Netherlands in the MH17 investigation. ..."
"... How does Russia stand to gain from shooting down an airliner? Crickets. They don't say. What a bunch of ******* imbeciles. The pathological obsession with pinning it on the Russkies is evident. ..."
The investigation into the crash of the MH17 Malaysia Airlines plane in East Ukraine was always compromised, right from the start.
The crash on July 17 2014 came shortly after the "Euromaidan revolution" in Kiev – which first began in November 2013 and
culminated in the ousting of elected president Yanukovich on 23 February 2014, happily helped along by John McCain, Victoria Nuland
and then-US ambassador to Ukraine (now ambassador to Greece) Geoffrey Pyatt for the USA, as well as various EU actors.
Russia reacted by "annexing" Crimea – a large majority of whose people had voted for Yanukovich, thereby safeguarding its access
to its only warm water port. Not a shot was fired there, but it was very different in East Ukraine (Donbass), where people -of Russian
origin- also didn't want to be subjected to a new regime under Nuland's puppet Yatsenyuk -and later Poroshenko. They started a civil
war which continues to this day.
It was in that heated political climate that the MH17 came down, killing all its 298 passengers, 196 of whom had the Dutch nationality.
3 weeks later, on August 8, a Joint Investigation Team (JIT) was formed, which was to be led by Holland, and to also include representatives
from Australia, Belgium and Ukraine. Which is odd, since at that time, Ukraine certainly was a potential perpetrator of the downing.
Malaysia joined only in December, allegedly because only then did it finally agree to allow Ukraine, a nation that was a suspect,
a veto over any conclusions that the team would publish. Malaysia had already been handed the black boxes by pro-Russian rebels in
the area, and passed them on to the team in August. Summarized, the way the JIT was formed was highly curious . The countries even
signed a secret agreement.
Immediately after the crash, people like then-US VP Joe Biden, as well as Frans Timmermans, then-Dutch Foreign Minister and
today candidate for the EU top job, pointed the finger at Russia as the party responsible for shooting down the plane. Also curious,
since there had been no investigation and the plane crashed in a civil war zone where access was almost impossible. There was talk
at the time of the US having satellite images, but none have ever been produced.
In that atmosphere, the JIT yesterday, June 19 2019, held another press conference, in which it accused four men, three from
Russia and one from Ukraine, of being "involved" in shooting down the plane. But again, almost 5 years after the incident, the team
produced no evidence for its accusations, saying it will only be presented 9 months from now when a trial will start in the Netherlands.
It also again accused Russia of refusing to cooperate, though Russia has offered its help ever since the MH17 came down. It's
just not the help the people want who have accused the Russians since before there was any hint of evidence it was involved. And
there still is no evidence. Russia has filed long and detailed reports on the incident despite being ignored, but these reports have
been ignored.
The trial will take place starting March 9 2020 without the accused, since Russia doesn't extradite its citizens, and neither
does Ukraine. Moreover, the one Ukrainian who is accused is thought to be in the Donbass, where the government has no access.
So this will be a show trial. And one must wonder why it is staged. What's the use of a trial where defendants don't defend themselves?
Sure, the official line is they would love to have the men provide a defense, but that smells a bit too much like what has happened
to Julian Assange. What are the odds of a fair trial when so many conclusions have been drawn at such early times?
There is not a soul in Europe west of the Russian border who doesn't believe the Russians did it. The media take care of that.
Nor is there in the US. But the Malaysian PM himself yesterday, again, said the team has proven nothing, and only provided hearsay.
I kid you not, I read a piece on the BBC today that asked if the 93-year-old who lost 43 of his countrymen only said that because
he wanted to sell palm oil to Russia.
And in the meantime, the evidence is not there, and won't be for another 9 months, if ever, and the EU today added another year
to its Russia sanctions over Crimea, and 4 men can deny their involvement all they want, but they can make their case only in March
2020, and only at a show trial, with international search warrants hanging over their heads.
The four men in question, by the way, are not accused of firing the BUK missile that supposedly downed the MH17. They are only
accused of facilitating the transport of the missile and launcher from Russia to Ukraine -and back. The JIT Ukrainian team bases
the entire story of that transport on serial numbers it says it has found.
On September 17 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense in a YouTube response to a May 24 2018 JIT exhibition, said it had tracked
down those serial numbers, 8868720, and 1318869032, and 9M38, and said both the launcher and missile corresponding to the numbers
were purchased by Ukraine from Russia as far back as 1986, transferred there, and had never left the country since.
I get that information from a lengthy, deep-digging and highly recommended essay by Eric Zuesse, from December 2018,
MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's
Guilt Now Proven , which I've been reading the past few days, in which Eric says:
" if the JIT's supplied evidence is authentic -- which the Ukrainian team asserts it to be -- then it outright convicts
Ukraine. This is an evidentiary checkmate, against the Ukrainian side."
Zuesse also details, in that article, contentions from multiple sources that, while the MH17 may have been hit with a BUK
missile, it certainly wasn't the only thing that hit it. There was at least one fighter jet seen close to the plane before it came
down, as multiple eye-witness reports claim, and it is alleged that they fired on the cockpit for sure and perhaps other parts of
the plane. It is an excellent article that is very well researched and chock-full of links to prove its points.
There are many things wrong with the MH17 investigation. Having the PM of one of your member investigative countries complain
that after 5 years you produce only hearsay and no evidence may be the least of the worries. The Netherlands, as main victim, leading
the investigation, is strange. How neutral could they be? Their Foreign Minister blamed Russia way before any investigating was done.
And Holland was a main sponsor in the "Euromaidan revolution", i.e. the ousting of an elected president.
Still, Ukraine's position in all this must be the biggest warning sign. They stood a lot to gain from committing atrocities
and then blaming Russia for them. Plus, Yatsenyuk and Nuland and the US and the EU were mightily angry that Russia had outsmarted
them all over Crimea.
But instead of keeping Ukraine out of the investigation, they became a major contributor, and were even given veto rights on anything
that came out of it, as far as we know the only party with such rights. If you present a crime novel or movie with ingredients like
that, nobody would believe you. Such things don't happen in real life.
Malaysia has had combative relations Israel for decades. Mossad is the most likely culprit in the shoot down of MH-17. That's
how Israelis work. You don't do what they tell you to do, they stage a mass-shooting or a bombing....... or shoot down a plane
full of innocent civilians. No cost is too great for the chosenites.
" By Way of Deception Thou Shalt Do War" ...... pretty much all you need to know.
The investigation is much like that mock-up of the downed craft - 40 percent missing and 90 percent empty. What evidence there
is has been 'filtered' through Kyiv or 'created' by Bellingcat. The rest is the stuff of news conferences.
The Malaysians - who should have had a leading role in the investigation - have been relegated to subservience, even treating
their dead according to strictures laid down by 'the investigation' - ie no autopsies of the cabin crew. They, too, have raised
the complaint of politics getting in the way of finding the truth.
I would hope the upcoming trial is held in an open, preferrably international, venue where the 'evidence' will be tested instead
of being merely 'read into the court record'. If Russia-which has the most to lose - has anything to do with that - three Russian
citizens gave been charged - it will be.
The Dutch government went in full MH17 cover-up mode. The Dutch minister of justice even declared that publicly disagreeing
with the JIT MH17 report equals with undermining the democratic order of the country. But the JIT MH17 report is an easy to debunk
farce.
A jet fighter approached MH17 from the right side of MH17, firing for some secs (at 25 rounds/sec) at the cockpit then crossing
the MH17 track, approaching from the left side and firing again at the cockpit.
The publically available pictures of the MH17 left side cockpit wall show the effects of the powerful 30mm Grazyev-Shipunov
aircraft guns and the formidable kinetic energy of the bullets. Such bullets flew through the B777 airframe and exited through
the other side piercing everything in the way. The gun barrels must be replaced each time after firing 2000 rounds!!!
In the MH17 cockpit wall there are holes showing bullets flying into it from both directions, a feat never ever demonstrated
by one single warhead explosion because all shrapnels start flying from one point.
The attack clearly started by eliminating the pilots, so there was no Mayday call from MH17 or other distress signals. When
such a large B777 aiframe is hit by a misslie, it still continues to fly for some minutes and the pilots could eventually manage
to report the attack (by a jet fighter). The planners of this attack knew this stuff and prevented the pilots from sending emergency
calls by killing them first. Thereafter the jet fighter launched an air-to-air missile. All anti-air missiles aim not at the cockpit
(as JIT fraudulently reports about the BUK) but at the middle of the fuselage where they explode a few meters from the target.
This jet fighter air-to-air missile, launched after taking down the pilots, finished MH17.
The DSB / JIT MH17 BUK theory is a complete lie, clearly politically motivated and quite easy to debunk.
The NATO and EU expansion hit a snag in 2014 when Donbass rose up against the coup installed government in Kiev. A false flag
to blame the rebels was badly needed. How many innocents were to perish was nobody's concern when the attack on MH17 was planned.
Now it's all about the cover-up: JIT and their governments, Bellingcat, main stream media, all are tuned to hide the truth.
Next to enter the game is the Dutch "judiciary", an incredibly corrupt structure, especially in the Netherlands.
" There is not a soul in Europe west of the Russian border who doesn't believe the Russians did it. "
Not true, I live in a country next to Russia and I don't believe that Russians did it. Mainly because at the time I have read
what Russians have to say about it and looked at the presented evidence. Besides even some US based websites that are more independent
confirmed most of what Russkies had to say.
So I exclude that Russians did have a hand in that tragedy.
But on another hand I accuse Russians to at least have a knowledge and some of their proven beyond doubt actions points to
their guilt or co-guilt in downing Polish presidential plane at Smolensk few years ago. In that catastrophe entire Polish political
elite perished and it is beyond doubt that it was either sabotage or plane was shot down as parts of the plane fell on the ground
well before it hit anything on land. There were many people in Poland at that time that could do it and did have compelling motive
to do it but actions of Russian ground crew at the airport are highly suspicious as well. At a minimum they knew and aided whoever
was responsible for it and it definitely pilot mistake has to be excluded. Anyway Russians till today do not want to release wreck
of the plane and people who ruled Poland at the time were close to Russian regime.
...and most of us here at ZH regard any "official" story with suspicion. If it's a matter involving geopolitics, especially
Russia, it's assumed to be ******** until proven otherwise. Unpatriotic? The ones who have betrayed the US are the ones who have
dishonored by their actions and lies.
Obammy and his merry band of neocunts ordered that plane shot out of the sky to justify sanctions on Russia. This is certainly
one case where red/blue team were on the same team.
Hromadske TV news channel was set up in the Ukraine in 2013 immediately prior to the Euromaidan overthrow of the Ukraine government.
That TV news channel played an important role in the Euromaidan. The biggest funder of Hromadske TV was The Netherlands.
Thanks for the links. The Netherlands have done a disservice to themselves - the Russians, although not vindictive, do not
forget anything and especially do not forgive. On the part of the Dutch, it was extremely stupid. Well, it is clear they really
wanted to return their gold reserves from the United States.
Israeli crash plane carried sarin chemical - Israel has a private airfield in the Netherlands - not subject to Dutch scrutiny
- Jews OWN Netherlands - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/184288.stm
- ancient 1998 BBC article - Israeli cargo plane crashes into Amsterdam neighborhood -
"The state-run Israeli airline, El Al, has confirmed that an El Al cargo plane which crashed into a block of flats in Amsterdam
in 1992 was carrying a chemical used to produce the nerve gas sarin.... Up to 300 people are believed to be suffering from
the effects Since the crash, six years ago, many residents near the site of the crash have complained of mysterious illnesses.
A report published on Wednesday by the Dutch health ministry showed that local doctors believed up to 300 residents could be
suffering from effects caused by the accident. They range from depression and nervousness to fatigue and listlessness. Cargo
was heading to Israeli plant"
Even the Malaysians have come out and called this thing rigged. The West has its head buried up its own *** with short sighted
Russophobia. Its sad to see the Dutch being the errand boys of the evil empire on this one.
How does Russia stand to gain from shooting down an airliner? Crickets. They don't say. What a bunch of ******* imbeciles.
The pathological obsession with pinning it on the Russkies is evident.
Malaysia should consider recalling all the evidence back and restarting the investigation by an undisclosed independent party.
Without the truth, there will be no closure for the victims' families.
These two events happened during the former prime minister's term. He was compromised because he used the western banking system
for his corruption (1MDB scandal). By doing that, they owned him, and he couldn't do what's right for the nation/people.
Here's a thought: Russia doesn't behave like a ******* ****** hence not much to criticize. The ones making dumb mistakes get
criticized and they happen to be running the West at the moment.
Cuz Russia is not the country that meddles in most countries elections in the world - not Russia. What country has military
bases in most countries of the world - not Russia. What country has been effecting Regime Change in many, many countries around
the world for the last 50 years - not Russia. Kinda hard to write a lot about Russia when some other country is hogging
the corruption.
Fed-up with being Sick and Tired , 3 hours ago
link
" There is not a soul in Europe west of the Russian border who doesn't believe the Russians did it. " Why not simply
use this phrase: "Everyone has been convinced, through propaganda, that Russia did it."
A stellar example of International Rule of Law in action. Something the Chinese will be all too happy to emulate. Everything is done to manipulate the dumb sheeple. Hypocrisy Unlimited
John Helmer, the only independent Western journalist in Moscow, has always had the best write ups about MH-17 and the travesty
of the truth that this fake investigation is all about. And the scam of an inquest in Victoria, Australia.
MH17 PROSECUTION -- THE DUTCH FIRE THEIR BIG GUNS, THE SUBJUNCTIVE AND CONDITIONAL TENSES, PLUS UKRAINIAN SECRET SERVICE TAPES
MH17 shot down by the Ukraine, a major false flag. But it seems for neocons no amount of murder is too much for their false flags. It is a total ******* joke to think Russia in any way could benefit from shooting down a plane like that, for any reason.
1. In 2001, one month after 9/11 Ukraine shot down a Russian airliner (Siberian airlines flight 1812) and admitted it. (operator
error of the Buk system.)
What happened is by-and-large known now and the conclusions already were made: instead of
the attempt to find the real culprits, West is engaged in politicized shamanism.This activily
does not represnt any intetrrest to the Russian society. . The US, the Europeans, particularly
the Netherlands, used MH17 story only as an excuse to once again poke a stick in the Russian
bear. Nothing less, nothing more. Everybody understadn tht thre real court trial is hopeless as
it is impossible to prove Russian guil based on availble evidence. But someone wants to
continue this propaganda campaign, to chew the poisoness mushroom so to speak and produce new
hallucinations. The last episode of this long-running "show" was so called "preliminary
announcement of the findings of the investigation."
Allowing Ukrainian participation is
like allowing a rabbit into the cabbage plantation Basically, for any normal person the
question of who would be most likely to shoot down MH17, long gone: it is made of the inept
Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners, who have at least one previous episode of shooting the
passenger aircraft. Remember downed Tu-154 in 2001, when a series of downright stupid human
errors lead to the rocket which failed to engage a low-flying targets captures and shooted down
a distant and high flying airliner.
Nobody checked checked that recapured occured and as the result all passenger died.
and Ukraine persistently refused to admit guilt. But at this point there were no "Maidan
Nazis" and other Post-maydan adventurists in power of the country. At this point it was
relatively "pro-Russian" president Kuchma in power. So this behaviour characterizes very well
the essence of Ukrainian "statehood": there can be no Pro-Russian government in Ukraine, only
somewhat less anti-Russian. Otherwise, the existence of this state somewhat lose its meaning.
In other words the purpose of "project Ukraine" is be ant anti-Russia dog barking at Russia's
front door, and it is desirable that Russia is paid for the barking.
For a normal person the most plausible version of "who shot down the airliner" is evident
and should be investigated to the fullest extent possible. Instead the Joint Investigation Team
(JIT) in the Netherlands was selected to have people with different ideas. In general, this is
a rather strange method of investigation to allow to participate in the investigation team the
representatives of the country, which is one of the main suspects. And the country is in any
case responsible for the accident that occurred over its territory. A country which failed to
blocked international air corridors over the combat zone, where several planes and helicopters
of the Ukranian armed forces was already actively shoot down And this country has been the fact
that comes up with "evidence" so to deflect blame from themselves. Let, in General, the rabbit
(or Ukraine) was allowed to guard the cabbage plantation.
Both Russia and Malaysia which could be countervailing force were excluded from the
investigation, as it would make harder to blame Russia for the incident.
I created you
from what was in hands at the moment The west so adamantly tried to create this political
fake, that it was incapable to do quality job with it. And why? Because it is based mainly on
"data networks", roughly and crudely "corrected" by Ukrainian "independent investigators". In
the photo these investigators anyone can enjoy online and make conclusions for themselves -- to
be Lombroso it is not necessary, there and so all is visible.
The information from another Western propaganda "investigative" outlet "Billingcat" have
even lower level of "reliability" and "impartiality". And also "radio intercepts" and
"wiretapping", were provided the same "genius intelligence" of the SBU. The real facts are
simply swept aside.
Unconvient facts that does not suit selected narrative are simply ignored. and we are
talking not about the fact that all the perpetrators are in the Donesk republic. Even if take
as at face value and assime that JIT version is correct the figures should have some
someconnection to anti-aircraft battries BUK and be trained to used them. But, it seems, JIT
picked up and charged basically people names of which were somehow leked to the West and which
are exposed in the Internet, in social networks and forums, such as the Arrows (Arrow, I.
Girkin), Gloomy (S. Dubinsky) and GURZA, who is also the Caliph (A. Pulatov), or Bat (L.
Kharchenko).
Well, those about whom the SBU bothered to created some fake "intercept conversations".
Anyone who is more or less aware of the course of events spring-summer 2014 from the national
republics, would be aware that these people are absolutely out of action in Dosetsk republic.
But as an insurance JIT mentioned other people, like BES (Bezler) and others. The enrolled in
this basically all Donetsk resistance commenders that existed at the time.
what is stragfe is that that fake interseption were only created up to the level of Surkov
and Aksenov. Bu this logic it would be instumental to concoct conversations with Shoigu,
Gerasimov and especially Putin. After all, every adept of svidomit faith believes in that in
all the political troubles of the Ukrainians and their state's are the fault, of course, Putin.
"Kremlin tyrant" constantly spoil the life of the Ukrainians, for example, he makes Ukranina
politicain to speal bnational wealth and hide money in the Western banks, to devalue the
national currentcy three times (300%) and to raise heating cost to the level whan the people
can;'t aford them, follow the destrive recommendation of the IMF and even burn the light bulbs
in the hallways.
And it is dangerous to question such a key symbol of Svidomit Faith. So it is very strange
that tthey faied to cook a conversation about how Putin orders to shoot down
MH17!
Investigators, blaming Russia, blaming Russian ait forces any conversantion now
can be faked using "deep fake" technology so thier vialue noww is questibale at best.
If additionally you remove "conversations in social networks", the originals of which no
longer exist (the service of "Vkontakte", for example, does not store logs of remote
correspondence for more than six months), and which can be editedt JIT does ot have any real
evidence.
and evidence like "the soldier talking 53-th separate anti-aircraft missile brigade with a
girl" should probably be expcluded taking into account there the name of the gil is unknown and
that that fact that converaion of genuane and not a fake is not given.
Trying to blame the Downing of MH17 equipment on the 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade from
Kursk, they themselves have accused the Ukrainian anti-aircraft gunners. They are absolutely
correctly identified the type of the rocket which was used -- 9M38, which is obsolete and in
Russia on arms did not appear even a few years before the war, but in Ukraine such missiles
were not decomissioned.
Demonstrated JIT last spring, and fragments of the engine and nozzle 9M38 they identified
with serial numbers and symbols of objects (also allowing to define the engine and the nozzle
block, and the very missiles). Serial number in Russia was quickly determined the serial number
of most missiles, and its tail number. Passport to the nozzle block 9Д131 05 000 No.
830113 and form of the rocket engine 9Д131 factory No. 8869032 it was established that
the missile 9M38 were produced on 24 December 1986 and had a serial number 8868720. Because the
account for the movement of manufactured military products military acceptance is reflected in
the register of products that passed control of military acceptance, then you can set the date
and address of delivery.
The 9M38 missile with factory No. 8868720 in the journal acceptance made under the serial
number 74 and the missile was assigned side number 847379. In this case it is added to the
conventional number of the plant-the manufacturer of the product and the year of issue, and in
this form it is applied to the body site. That is, in this case, the room was 886847379.
In addition, the receiving magazine would be clarified and the contract number,
6ИТ-581, and where, under the order of GRAU USSR Ministry of defense were shipped
products. Under the order No. 561/4/001029 of February 28, 1987, this Suhr with tail number
886847379, was sent to in/h 20152, that is to say the 223-th separate anti-aircraft missile
brigade of the Transcarpathian MD of Terebovlya of Ternopil region of Ukraine. There were, of
course, recorded information about the date of the acceptance of these products in the in/h
20152, 19 may 1987, and the date when the manufacturer received this official confirmation on 4
June of the same year. This 223 srbr, "privatized" a nezalezhnikami, in 2000, became a regiment
with the same number. Now the regiment is stationed in Stryi in the Lviv region. The regiment
participated in the fighting in the Donbass, and in 2014 too, which is very important, was in
Donbass during the described period.
The Westen countries not not need the truth, what
the need is the pretext for the santions
logically the data about the production of the rocket should be decisive (as well as the
rest of the array of information provided by the Russian side), This is a solid evidence. which
indirectly expose the guilt of the Ukrainians.
Moreover Ukraniians refuse to provide the data means of objective control with radar as air
traffic control and the duty officers and military radar air defense RTV. Kiev refuses to
provide information about the location of the SAM "Buk-M1" on the day of the disaster -- why
would I, if the fault is not on them?
But Russia has its own data means of objective control (and in fact, given the concentration
of large groups of troops, air defense on the border was strengthened and radar was working
there a lot, and the aircraft a-50 will almost certainly at the moment is also patrolled
"preconflict" zone on our side of the border.
Russia has not yet published this information, but it can declassify it. However, in the
West again "not deemed compelling" given us information.
Assume that the intercept from the side of Russian electronic reconnaissance is also
possible not to consider, although it Ukrainian Colonel Robert Grinchuk, who commanded the
164-th radio brigade air defense openly said that in the event of unresolved technical problems
we "may down another Boeing." Theoretically it can be forged or you can declare it fake.
But the data about to whom the racket which shoot down Boeing belong it more difficult to
forge.
Where is the logic? It is Necessary, however, to say that the "independent
investigators" proded thier own version. Accring to which this rocket was shipped together to
the "Buk-M1" to Georgia shortly before the five-day war (where Ukrainian officers serviced
them), and then, they say, that rocket captured Russian.
And insidiously put obsolete and removed from service on the SAM missiles, sent to the
Donbass. But why? Is it only for the sake of "not getting caught" on the use of inauthentic
Ukraine weapons? Isn't it too difficult?
And why, given subsequent events in summer / autumn 2014? And indeed the "logic" Svidomits,
claiming that "to shoot down the airliner" Russian needed "to officially send troops to the
Donbas," is also flawed. None of this would not be necessary -- everything needed can be
shipped. Without any formal invasion.
Yes, in Georgia Russian Army was captured many trophies. But there are serious doubts that
someone would be put into service of outdated missiles from 9M38 "Buk-M1" with something as
extended operating life. Not to mention the fact that the missiles are known as kept, it is
impossible to exclude and a variety of microcracks as a result, for example, bumps or dropping
missiles in the closure height, above the legal operating rules.
Besides, there was no need for them in Russia as Russia was the modernization program of SAM
"Buk-M1" to "Buk-M1-2" with a replacement for 9M317 missile to 9M38M1. So there was no reason
fro Russia to prolong the life of the missiles. A similar undercurrent of deceit is to put the
warehouse dozens of unnecessary missiles to 7 years to shoot down one of them (completely out
periods of storage and with unpredictable results) on the adjacent territory the passenger
side. Such a version is more suitable to fiction. Trophy of the five-day war were often treated
much more carelessly and brutally -- part of the captured tanks (from for sure are more
valuable the Buk missle the reuse of the tanks is always possible to find), for example, were
simply blew up.
The same fate befell a number of other trophies that Russian army was unable or unwilling to
take.so much for the version of "the Georgian origin".
Not to mention the fact that even if we assume the participation of Russian SAM in events
specifically mid-July 2014 on the territory of Donbass (it would be wrong to suggest), then the
target identification from the SAM, based on the world's best air defense of Russia, there were
no problems. And qualification of the SAM calculations in the armed forces was and remains
high.
Ukrainians did not shot of the equipment entrusted to them -- and even now did not have
shooting practice or have then below the norms. but we are talking about 2014 when the Ukrain
arny was in complet disarray.
But does not concern someone in the West? No they preder to to shout about the lack of
democracy in Russia. With no noticeable effects -- the pressure on Russia seriously
useless.
And it is understood that the Netherlands will going to demand the extradition of the
accused (knowing that the answer will be negative), so the prospects for "the court trial"
which can determine the truth are zero, although in absentia they can condemn anyone, even
Godzilla.
But it is possible "to urge Russia to help ensure that the accused appeared before the
court" as did the state Department, or "to welcome the fact of placing the suspects" as
delivered by a talking head of NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg
also nobody said it better about the JIT investigation then the Prime Minister of Malaysia
Mahathir Mohammad.
"We are very unhappy. From the outset this investigation was politicized and was carried out
in order to find ways to accuse Russia of illegal actions", -- said the Prime Minister. He
added that investigators are still examining the case materials, said that Russia did.
"We need proof of Russian guilt in the incident. But so far there is no proof, only rumors.
It's funny: someone you can't see, shoot, and you immediately declare that you know who was
shot."
The purpose of the "investigation" is to hang the blame of three hundred corpses
and a plane to some random individuals (transferring the guilt from a sick head to healthy as
Russian saying goes).
Good analysis, and thanks for including the drone-stalking cats photo. I only wish the
neighborhood "house cats" here would prey upon drones instead of using my tiny back yard and
its birdfeeders as their private hunting grounds.
One quibble, re: "But to blame Iran for it the U.S. will have to prove that its drone
did not enter Iranian air space."
This ought to be the case, certainly. But the bogus charges filed yesterday by the corrupt
and depraved Dutch authorities as part of the MH-17 downing cover-up is still another
reminder that authoritarian despots blithely and bumptiously run on fumes.
No one wishes more fervently than I that the multifarious Western Hegemony Big Lies kept
spinning in the air, as if juggled by a monstrous, malevolent Atlas, will ultimately be
punctured by laser-beams of truth. In the meantime, increasingly self-righteous repetitions
of the Big Lie will substitute for the required "proof".
"... Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad sent shock waves in a public speech where he dismissed a Dutch "official" report blaming Russia for the downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17 in July, 2014, weeks after a CIA-led coup toppled the elected President of Ukraine. Despite the downplaying in western mainstream media of the Malaysian leader's comments, it is creating a major new potential embarrassment for ex-Vice President Joe Biden and his Ukraine collaborators such as Igor Kolomoisky, in their flimsy effort to blame Russia for their own misdeeds. ..."
"... By recasting doubt on those Dutch JIT conclusions, Mahathir has potentially opened a can of deadly worms that could come to haunt the Ukrainian government at the time, especially Igor Kolomoisky , the billionaire Ukrainian financial backer of the newly elected Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky . It potentially could also implicate then-Vice President Joe Biden and many others. ..."
"... Independent investigators into the destruction of MH17 stress the fact that the Dutch-led JIT deliberately excluded Malaysia as well as Russia from their group, but included the CIA-backed coup regime in Ukraine, hardly an unbiased party. Further, all telephone taps the JIT has presented as proof of the guilt of the Russians came from the Ukrainian secret service SBU. Since the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014, the SBU has been involved in repeated fake accusations aimed at Russia, including faked murder of a journalist later revealed to be quite alive . ..."
"... According to a Dutch site, Post Online, Eurocontrol, European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation, gave information to the Dutch Parliament about the status of Ukraine radar in 2016 informing that the Ukraine air traffic control organization UkSATSE failed to inform Eurocontrol in summer 2014 about the non-operational status of three radar systems in Eastern Ukraine, a grave violation of law. One of the three was taken in the wake of the CIA Ukraine coup in April by a masked band that destroyed the radar facility . ..."
"... Further, in another breach, the Ukrainian UkSATSE refused to permit their air traffic controller at Dnepropetrovsk, responsible for controlling flight MH17, to be questioned. According to Russian reports, the person "went on vacation" and never reappeared . ..."
"... Kolomoisky, who is notorious for hiring thugs and neo-nazis to beat up business and other opponents in Ukraine, reportedly secured the lucrative Burisma post for Hunter Biden, despite Biden's lack of any experience in Ukraine or in oil and gas, in return for Joe Biden lifting Kolomoisky's US visa travel ban. Joe Biden was the Obama Administration point person in charge of the 2014 CIA-orchestrated Maidan Square coup and toppling of the elected President Viktor Yanukovych. ..."
"... All these pieces of a very murky geopolitical puzzle underscore the dirty role that Ukraine and the Obama administration have played in demonizing Russia as well as the Trump Administration. Most recently, it appears that the US Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his staff, relied on a Ukrainian businessman named Konstantin Kilimnik, who worked for Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, as the key figure supposedly linked to Russian intelligence, as a key figure to make the case of Russian collusion or interference in the 2016 US elections. ..."
"... Far from a Putin agent, however, new evidence shows that Kilimnik, since at least 2013 was a confidential Ukrainian informant to the US State Department, according to US journalist John Solomon. ..."
"... Increasingly it is looking like the Ukraine and not Russia is the more likely source for interference in the 2016 US election, and not in the way we have been told by the establishment media such as CNN. ..."
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad sent shock waves in a public speech where he
dismissed a Dutch "official" report blaming Russia for the downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17 in
July, 2014, weeks after a CIA-led coup toppled the elected President of Ukraine. Despite the
downplaying in western mainstream media of the Malaysian leader's comments, it is creating a
major new potential embarrassment for ex-Vice President Joe Biden and his Ukraine collaborators
such as Igor Kolomoisky, in their flimsy effort to blame Russia for their own
misdeeds.
During a dialogue with the Japanese Foreign Correspondent Club May 30, Mahathir challenged
the Dutch government to provide evidence for their claim that the civilian Malaysian FH17 jet
that crashed in Ukraine was shot down by a Russian-made BUK missile fired from a Russian
regiment based in Kursk. The Malaysian Prime Minister told the Japanese media,
"They are accusing Russia, but where is the evidence? We know the missile that brought
down the plane is a Russian type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine."
The blunt-spoken Mahathir added,
"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians; it could be by the rebels
in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile ."
He went on to demand that the Malaysian government be allowed to inspect the black box of
the crashed plane, stating the obvious, that the plane belongs to Malaysia, with Malaysian
pilot and there were Malaysians passengers:
"We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reasons, Malaysia
was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened."
He went on to state,
"We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we
see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened, but seems to
be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians ."
The Malaysian Air MH17 was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down
over the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Only in May 2018 the Dutch-led
Joint Investigation Team issued its report alleging that a BUK missile was used to shoot down
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, claiming that it originated from the 53rd Anti-aircraft Brigade
of the Russian Federation, stationed in Kursk near the Ukraine border.
The Dutch Joint
Investigation Team (JIT) declared that it "has come to the conclusion that the BUK-TELAR that
shot down MH17 came from 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia,"
according to top Dutch investigator Wilbert Paulissen. Paulissen added, "We are convinced that
our findings justify the
conclusions "
The Dutch-led group presented no concrete forensic proof, and Moscow has repeatedly denied
involvement in an act that would make no military or political sense for them. In 2018 the
Russian Defense Ministry provided evidence that the BUK missile which had exploded to destroy
the Malaysian passenger jet had been manufactured in a Russian plant in 1986, and then shipped
to the Ukraine. Its last recorded location was at a Ukrainian military base.
By recasting doubt on those Dutch JIT conclusions, Mahathir has potentially opened a can
of deadly worms that could come to haunt the Ukrainian government at the time, especially Igor
Kolomoisky , the billionaire Ukrainian financial backer of the newly elected Ukrainian
president Volodymyr Zelensky . It potentially could also implicate then-Vice President Joe
Biden and many others.
Open Questions
Independent investigators into the destruction of MH17 stress the fact that the
Dutch-led JIT deliberately excluded Malaysia as well as Russia from their group, but included
the CIA-backed coup regime in Ukraine, hardly an unbiased party. Further, all telephone taps
the JIT has presented as proof of the guilt of the Russians came from the Ukrainian secret
service SBU. Since the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014, the SBU has been involved in
repeated fake accusations aimed at Russia, including faked murder of a journalist later
revealed to be quite
alive .
One of the central issues that the Dutch JIT group never addressed is why, at a time it was
a known warzone, and commercial international flights were told to avoid the airspace in
eastern Ukraine, the MH17 flight was reportedly ordered by Ukraine air traffic control
authorities in Dnepropetrovsk to change course and to fly directly into the war zone. According
to a Dutch site, Post Online, Eurocontrol, European Organisation for the Safety of Air
Navigation, gave information to the Dutch Parliament about the status of Ukraine radar in 2016
informing that the Ukraine air traffic control organization UkSATSE failed to inform
Eurocontrol in summer 2014 about the non-operational status of three radar systems in Eastern
Ukraine, a grave violation of law. One of the three was taken in the wake of the CIA Ukraine
coup in April by a masked band that destroyed the radar
facility .
Further, in another breach, the Ukrainian UkSATSE refused to permit their air traffic
controller at Dnepropetrovsk, responsible for controlling flight MH17, to be questioned.
According to Russian reports, the person "went on vacation" and never
reappeared .
The Kolomoisky Factor
Notably, at the time of the MH17 downing, the Ukrainian governor of the Dnepropetrovsk
Oblast or region, was Igor Kolomoisky. Kolomoisky, who is listed as the third richest man in
Ukraine with an empire in oil, coal, metals and banking, was also reported to be directly
linked via offshore entities to control of Burisma, the shady Ukrainian gas company that named
the son of then-Vice President Joe Biden to its
board .
Kolomoisky, who is notorious for hiring thugs and neo-nazis to beat up business and
other opponents in Ukraine, reportedly secured the lucrative Burisma post for Hunter Biden,
despite Biden's lack of any experience in Ukraine or in oil and gas, in return for Joe Biden
lifting Kolomoisky's US visa travel ban. Joe Biden was the Obama Administration point person in
charge of the 2014 CIA-orchestrated Maidan Square coup and toppling of the
elected President Viktor Yanukovych.
Notably, the Mahathir remarks have drawn attention anew to the mysterious circumstances
around the downing of Malaysian Air MH17 in 2014 and the potential role of Kolomoisky and
others, in that. The role of corrupt Ukraine officials backed by the Obama Administration, is
now under scrutiny.
Notably, the new President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, is widely reported to be a
protégé of Igor Kolomoisky. Zelensky became a national name as a comedian on a
Ukraine TV station owned by Kolomoisky, and the latter reportedly provided funds and personnel
to run the comedian's victorious May 2019 election campaign in which he defeated incumbent
Petro Poroshenko, a bitter foe of Kolomoisky. Following Zelensky's election victory, Kolomoisky
returned to Ukraine after exile in Switzerland following a bitter falling out
with Petr Poroshenko in 2015.
All these pieces of a very murky geopolitical puzzle underscore the dirty role that Ukraine
and the Obama administration have played in demonizing Russia as well as the Trump
Administration. Most recently, it appears that the US Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his
staff, relied on a Ukrainian businessman named Konstantin Kilimnik, who worked for Trump
campaign chairman Paul Manafort, as the key figure supposedly linked to Russian intelligence,
as a key figure to make the case of Russian collusion or interference in the 2016 US
elections.
Far from a Putin agent, however, new evidence shows that Kilimnik, since at least 2013 was a
confidential Ukrainian informant to the US State Department, according to US journalist John
Solomon. Solomon cites FBI documents including State Department emails he has seen where Kilimnik is described as a "sensitive" intelligence source for the US State Department. The
Mueller report left that embarrassing detail out for some reason. Kilimnik worked for Paul
Manafort who before the 2014 Ukraine coup had served as a lobbyist for Ukrainian elected
president Viktor Yanukovych and his Party of the Regions.
Their shadowy acts in Ukraine may soon come to haunt key figures in Ukraine such as
Kolomoisky, as well as people like Joe Biden and family. From the true authorship of the
downing of MH17, which Dutch and other investigators believe was linked to Kolomoisky actors,
to the Ukraine business dealings of Hunter Biden to the true facts of the Mueller "Russiagate"
probe, all could well prove to be a far more revealing investigation for the US Justice
Department than the obviously biased Mueller probe has been.
Increasingly it is looking like
the Ukraine and not Russia is the more likely source for interference in the 2016 US election,
and not in the way we have been told by the establishment media such as CNN.
*
Note to readers: please click the share buttons above or below. Forward this article to your
email lists. Crosspost on your blog site, internet forums. etc.
F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds a degree in
politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling author on oil and geopolitics,
exclusively for the online magazine "New
Eastern Outlook" where this article was originally published.
He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization.
"... Tulsi: "While I agree that Russia is both directly and indirectly responsible for this downed plane shot down by the separatists, we've got to look at this in the bigger picture. We've got to look at Russia's incursion into Ukraine, Ukraine's sovereignty " ..."
"... "Not a single anti-aircraft missile system of the Russian Armed Forces has ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border," ..."
"... "the determination of the Dutch-led investigation to justifying its conclusions by solely using images from social networks that have been expertly altered with computer graphic editing tools." ..."
"... had been previously displayed by the infamous British online investigative activist group, Bellingcat. ..."
"... "the 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia". ..."
"... "the Dutch investigators completely ignore and reject the testimony of eyewitnesses from the nearby Ukrainian communities", according to the Defense Ministry. The testimonies, however, provided essential information "indicating the launch of a missile was carried out from a territory controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces." ..."
"... "comprehensive" ..."
"... "clearly indicate the involvement of the Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft system units" ..."
Who Shot Down Flight MH17 over Eastern Ukraine in 2014?
span ted by wendy davis on Sun, 06/02/2019 - 11:19am
Well of course it was the Evil Russians! Didn't Russians also shoot Roger Rabbit? We'd been discussing this 2014 interview with
Tulsi Gabbard on my post ' analyses of the leaked 'Deal of the Century'
I/P peace plan '
that I'd found that day and posted in comments, mainly wanting to feature her anti-Palestinian Hasbara. As I remember it, this 'blame'
started the horrific sanctions on Russia.
Tulsi: "While I agree that Russia is both directly and indirectly responsible for this downed plane shot down by the separatists,
we've got to look at this in the bigger picture. We've got to look at Russia's incursion into Ukraine, Ukraine's sovereignty "
TravelerXXX had bookmarked this Eric Zuesse exposé that I'd vaguely recalled and brought it in:
'MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's Guilt Now Proven', December 31,
2018,
strategic-culture.org
It's about nine yards long with zillions of hyperlinks, so long I don't even guess I'd ever finished it, which makes it hard
to figure out what, if any, nuggets to feature, but he did link to this:
'MH-17: the untold story', 22
Oct,
2014, RT.com, including a 27-minute video documentary.
"Three months after Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down over Ukraine, there are still no definitive answers about
what caused the tragedy. Civil conflict in the area prevented international experts from conducting a full and thorough investigation.
The wreckage should have been collected and scrupulously re-assembled to identify all the damage, but this standard investigative
procedure was never carried out. Until that's done, evidence can only be gleaned from pictures of the debris, the flight recorders
(black boxes) and eye-witnesses testimonies. This may be enough to help build a picture of what really happened to the aircraft,
whether a rocket fired from the ground or a military jet fired on the doomed plane."
I'd later added to that thread, including some photos of a beaming Netanyahu holding a map of the Golan Heights that Herr Trump
had signed with his approval (indicating the leaked plan just may be The Real Deal) when Up Jumped the Devil:
'Where
is the evidence?' Malaysian PM says attempts to pin MH17 downing on Russia lack proof', 30 May,
2019, RT.com
"Malaysia has accepted the Dutch report that a 'Russian-made' missile shot down its civilian airliner MH17 over eastern Ukraine
in 2014, but has yet to see evidence it was fired by Russia, said Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad.
"They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence?" Mahathir told reporters at the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ)
in Tokyo on Thursday.
"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians," the prime minister went on, according to the Malaysian state
news agency Bernama. "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile."
"Mahathir was skeptical that anyone involved with the Russian military could have launched the missile that struck the plane,
however, arguing that it would have been clear to professionals that the target was a civilian airliner.
"I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he said.
The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT), whose report last year blamed Moscow for shooting down MH17, barred Russia from
participating in the investigation, but involved the government of Ukraine. Although Malaysia is also a member of JIT,Mahathir
revealed that his country's officials have been blocked from examining the plane's flight recorders.
"For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened," he said. "We
don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it."
"This is not a neutral kind of examination," Mahathir added.
Rejecting the JIT accusations, Russia made public the evidence the Dutch-led researchers refused to look into, including the
serial number of the missile that allegedly struck MH17, showing that it was manufactured in the Soviet Union in 1986 and was in
the arsenal of the Ukrainian army at the time of the tragedy."
b of Moon of Alabama offered this whopping 55 minute press conference video with Malaysian PM Mahathir on Twitter
on May 31.
But aha! RT had later provided on the left sidebar:
May 24,
2018: 'No
Russian missile system ever crossed into Ukraine: MoD rejects Dutch MH17 claims', RT.com
"The Russian Defense Ministry has rejected new claims that flight MH17 over Ukraine was downed by a missile from a Russian unit,
urging the Dutch-led probe to focus on studying hard facts instead of social media images.
"Not a single anti-aircraft missile system of the Russian Armed Forces has ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border,"
the defense ministry said in statement.
The Russian military raised eyebrows over "the determination of the Dutch-led investigation to justifying its conclusions
by solely using images from social networks that have been expertly altered with computer graphic editing tools."
The ministry pointed out that
the images used in the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) press conference on Thursday were provided by the Ukrainian special
services and had been previously displayed by the infamous British online investigative activist group,
Bellingcat.
The Dutch-led probe announced that the missile that downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in July 2014 came from a Russian military
Buk system that crossed into Ukraine and then returned to its base in western Russia.
Investigators claim the missile system involved came from "the 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia".
The JIT essentially just repeated the conclusion made by Bellingcat a year ago.
The alarming part in the JIT probe is that "the Dutch investigators completely ignore and reject the
testimony of eyewitnesses from the nearby Ukrainian communities", according to the Defense Ministry. The testimonies, however,
provided essential information "indicating the launch of a missile was carried out from a territory controlled by the Ukrainian
Armed Forces."
The Russian side said that it provided the international probe with "comprehensive"evidence, including field tests,
which "clearly indicate the involvement of the Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft system units" in the destruction of the plane
with 283 passengers and 15 crew members onboard."
This video that Eric Zuesse had up may be part of the referenced eye witness testimony.
Have brought up Gabbard's sticking with the lies and false narratives regarding Russia and Ukraine, clearly one of her blind
spots in her "antiwar" political campaign, that along with the massive and unrelenting war OF terror. That letter is a rather disgusting
display of imperialist obfuscation by the duopoly political parties, fully supporting the lies about Maduro and what's happening
in VS and in effect providing cover for future actions. You can't claim to be against military action while also lying about the
reasons. Of course they can, that's how they prep the public for imperial advances. up 4 users have voted.
i totally endorse zuesse's theory, but oh my, he'd brought in a lot of moving parts at the time. paranoid conspiracy theory
or 'coincidence theory', as some brilliant mofo used to ask. (i'l think of his name later.) the russian defense ministry's contentions
are in conflict with zuesse's (buk missiles v. another jet with missiles), but i sure as hell know that the dutch report
decision in advance was bullshit. i'd think that one would have to be willfully blind to accept it at face value, esp.
if any of them like gabbard were on the defense and intel committees at the time. same with madurro's venezuela, to pretend
that it's not mainly the egregious sanctions and blockades that are responsible for the estimated 40,000 citizens who've died
for lack of medicines and food. and now their CLAP food delivery system is under attack...again.
i get that the intel they're fed is rubbish, but they all have the duty to look further than what lies they're spoon fed.
CEPR has been incredibly valuable a resource for one, and it's pretty mainstream.
but he's right about one thing: yanukovitch was overthrown due to his refusal to sign the EU association memo, and when Imperialists
speak of how 'russia stole crimea', or refuse to see why the separatists in the donbass formed their own independent nation-states,
it's utter hypocrisy.
thanks for reading and commenting, big al.
oh, and do you know if tulsi's FP is still at her house.gov site? i looked at all her press releases that were dated after
that offensive letter, but i'd found nothing new.
@wendy davis I mean, there's the establishment/government narrative and there's the truth, that's about all I need to
know. It's like that saying "trust, but verify". I say fuck that, "don't trust, and verify that".
I don't know about Gabbard's FP, she's done some housecleaning and avoided certain things since becoming the CFR's choice for
2024. Again, I've already done enough research, what, for over 3 years now?, to see what she's all about, something I failed
to do in 2007/8 regarding Obama. Lo and behold, all the clues were there just waiting to be uncovered, but I wasn't in the same
place as now.
...by the Russians, who were not allowed to participate in the Dutch investigation. The information and data was presented
to the Dutch and to the Western media in September 2018. Everything one could hope to see in physical evidence is here. There
is additional evidence not in this article that adds to the details and forensics presented here.
This information was not published in the West or in the Vassal State of Netherlands. The US possesses satellite photos of
the incident. But it has classified those photos and refuses to release them.
As for means, motive and opportunity:
• MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, not over Russia.
• It was shot down with a missile owned by Ukraine, not by Russia.
• It had propaganda value for Ukraine and its CIA masters, none for
• The missile was fired from territory controlled by the neo nazi Kiev regime.
But the best evidence of what took place, as far as I'm concerned, is right here:
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, falling in the rebel-held part of
the country. The crash claimed the lives of 283 passengers and 15 crew members, most of them Dutch nationals. Russia
was blamed by Western media in the first days after the tragedy, even before any evidence had been collected on the ground.
and thank you. your memory is prodigious, and having the 2018 RT news is srsly helpful, as is your M,M, & O formula. blame
first, then fail to allow russia (and malaysia) to be able to run investigations. good to know as well that the malaysian minister
knew of the serial numbers and that ukraine owned the missiles.
eric zuesse had said that even dutch journalists were raising havoc with the JIT back in the day. but just think what this
false blame resulting in mega-sanctions began, then onto the skripals, russia-gate in many guises, and tra la la.
mr. wd laughed this mornin' and said he wishes he had a choice to vote for sergei lavrov for prez; i second that!
dunno if the EU still wants a compact with ukraine, but NATO sure wants the neo-nazi nation as a member. ping: if i have
the energy and time, i'll try to find in zuesse's tome admissions by snipers in 2014, as well.
Must admit I didn't hunt down her Ukraine position, but my personal take is Obummer and the CIA set out to foment problems
and managed to get a fascists regime elected in order to oppose Russia. The new Ukrainian president may take things in a more
pro-Russia direction?
site, at her election site. well, check out Russia , for now. and i do thank you; i was lookin' in all the wrong places.
; )i'll check out more soon as i have time, but zounds: russia: crimea, the nation's interference in our election, wooof. of
course jill stein raised boatloads of bucks for recounts in three states on the basis of russian interference, later 'foreign
interference' against the wishes of the green party board and her own running mate, so...there's that, but it was just a dodge
against trump winning, not hillary. sorry, tulsi.
for being in such a hurry i hadn't even registered your speculation about zelenskiy, but nah, he wants crimea and the donbass
self-declared republics that Putin stole from him...back. he's being lauded and applauded for 'standing up to KGB Putin'. ;
)
and the IMF's bailin' em out again so they have enough to pay their NATO dues and join the EU. (just saw that tryin' to remember
how to sorta spell the comic's name.)
maybe it was passengers', was returned to Malaysia ... but in a sealed coffin, that even family members were refused to open.
At the time an OSCE member was the first to arrive at the crash site. Some 20 minutes after the downing. The photos taken
by him, or so it was attributed, showed round holes (not shrapnel) shot in the pilot area. Sorry I don't have any links handy
on either of these, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.
as i understand it, the hole size was not in contention. but weather it had been the pilot or a passenger: '...but in a sealed
coffin, that even family members were refused to open.'
is that perhaps a malaysian custom? is the truth out there somewhere?
eric zuesse remind us, the holes in the cockpit were likely from machine guns on the ukrainian fighter jet sent to make sure
the ukie buk missiles had (omg) killed the plane, which if i'm getting it right (a big IF) was changing direction as it went
down. my apologies for not getting all the moving parts and claims right on this thread.
but the 21st century wire shows charts and evidence that the flight crew was ordered to change course by the air traffic
control tower (as per the later censored bbc plus recordings).
...was involved in the downing of MH17, which was the opinion of many aviation experts and others, who found bullet holes
in the cockpit, wings, and fuselage. This in addition to Buk damage.
Recordings were captured by multiple sources of a frightened and stressed Ukrainian pilot, who radioed, "I shot the wrong
plane!" He sounded as if he was commanded to shoot down a military target plane and was misled into shooting a passenger jet.
That pilot, named Voloshyn, later committed suicide.
The typical recollection of the incident is:
A fighter was also sent up to 'make sure' the target plane was shot down. If I remember rightly, the plane was hit, but
was still flying and it began to turn back. If the plane story (which I tend to believe) is true, it's at that point that
the fighter jet opened fire on the cockpit and wings.
That would also account for Buk damage to the Boeing, as well as fighter machine gun damage to the cockpit.
You can find many references to this incident along with transcripts of the conversation between the fighter pilot and the
ground base.
video confessions from the snipers at maidan (i assume ukrainians firing on protestors in front of the trades union building
that was eventually...burned to the ground.
but this?
"For instance, Moscow said a theory was never tested that the airliner could have been downed by a fighter jet spotted
by Russian radar stations near flight MH17. The theory was later proven false by the discovery of debris from the Buk rocket.
Though Russia doesn't possess those black boxes ( which, by chance, were handed by the pro-Russian separatists to the
Malaysian Government's representative, and yet that Government handed them to Netherland's Government instead of to Russia's
-- apparently trusting Netherlands more than trusting Russia or even themselves), Russia does possess, and publicly reveals,
evidence that's conclusive on its own; and it is 100% consistent with Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, regardless
whether a Buk was involved or not."
one of his links went to ' MH17 Verdict: Real Evidence Points to US-Kiev Cover-up of Failed False Flag '
July 25, 2014 , 21stcenturywire.com
"As MH17 moved into Ukrainian air space, it was moved by ATC Kiev approximately 200 miles north – putting it on a new
course, heading directly into a war zone, a well-known dangerous area by now – one that's hosted a number of downed military
craft over the previous 3 weeks. Robert Mark, a commercial pilot and editor of Aviation International News Safety magazine,
confirmed that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would normally travel along a route significantly
further south than the route MH17 was diverted onto.
Data on all airline flight records can be found here. The BBC reported on July 17th: " Ukraine's SBU security service
has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner,
a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
a great (and lengthy) collaborative investigation by 21st century wire. thanks, obomba, thanks, tulsi, thanks Pierre and
vickie nuland. and even the new guy can't control his neo-nazis. but then again, at least yulia tymoshenko didn't win.
but NATO will add them to the roster soon, which is one of the reasons that the atlantic council had recommended him: to
root out poroshenko's oligarchs' corruption.
but i almost wish i hadn't it's sooooo long and full of twists and turns, news reports, videos, but in general the theme
is that mikhail saakashvilli hired them, then stiffed them.
' The "Snipers' Massacre" in Kiev -- Another False Flag? ',
January
13, 2015 , granvillepost.com, eric zuesse
you may remember him best john Mccains buddy: 'today we are all georgians'? like ahmed chalabi, he's the proverbial bad penny
who keeps returning in whatever guise needed (after expulsions), and the
big news this week is that zelenskiy's reinstated his ukrainian
citizenship after promising to give up his former ambitions and work with the new prez.
"... In unexpected statements Malaysia Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has questioned the methodology behind Dutch investigators who produced what the West considers the authoritative report on the tragic shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 while flying over war-torn eastern Ukraine. He criticized that the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) seems "to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians" . ..."
"... The Malaysian PM further went so far as to point to Ukrainian pro-government forces as being prime suspects: "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile," he said. ..."
"... Mahathir further slammed the decision to exclude Malaysian investigators from the black box examination: "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened," he said . ..."
"... "We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it and the idea was to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians." ..."
"... Russia has also rejected the conclusions of the European JIT report, saying the missile that struck the civilian airliner was manufactured in the Soviet Union in 1986, and was part of the Ukrainian army arsenal at the time of the shoot down. ..."
"... Tell Malaysia they cannot access the black-box on their plane that was shot down, and they will tell you where to put your authoritative report. ..."
In unexpected statements Malaysia Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has questioned the
methodology behind Dutch investigators who produced what the West considers the authoritative
report on the tragic shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 while flying over
war-torn eastern Ukraine. He criticized that the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) seems
"to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians" .
The Malaysian leader told reporters at the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ)
in Tokyo on Thursday "They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence?" Mahathir said
his country accepted that a "Russian-made missile" shot down its civilian airliner, killing all
283 passengers and 15 crew members on board, but that "You need strong evidence to show it was
fired by the Russians."
He ultimately questioned the objectivity of the investigators in what major regional media
described as a "jaw dropping speech" .
Australia's prime state run news service
ABC News noted the Malaysian PM's speech has sent shock waves through the region as it
questioned everything Australia's own leaders have said. "From the very beginning we see too
much politics in it," Mahathir said in reference to the official Dutch-led investigation.
A total of 38 Australians were killed in the Boeing-777 shoot down and crash, and the
majority were Dutch nationals. The ABC report summarized of the "bombshell"
charges leveled by PM Mahathir :
"Based on these findings, the only conclusion we can reasonably now draw is that Russia
was directly involved in the downing of MH17," Australia's then-prime minister and foreign
minister Malcolm Turnbull and Julie Bishop said in a joint statement.
"The Russian Federation must be held to account for its conduct in the downing of MH17
over eastern Ukraine, which resulted in the tragic deaths of 298 passengers and crew,
including 38 people who called Australia home."
But in a bombshell speech to the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (JFCC) on Thursday,
Dr Mahathir was having none of it, accusing those who blamed Russia of scapegoating the
nation for "political" reasons .
The Malaysian PM further went so far as to point to Ukrainian pro-government forces as
being prime suspects: "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government
because they too have the same missile," he said.
Interestingly, this has been Russia's position all along, which has already led some
international media sources to suggest of
the deeply contrarian Friday speech , "Dr Mahathir is known to enjoy a good conspiracy
theory."
Mahathir further slammed the decision to exclude Malaysian investigators from the black
box examination: "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason,
Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened,"
he said .
"We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we
see too much politics in it and the idea was to find out how this happened but seems to be
concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians."
The Malaysian PM's headline grabbing comments were made in English in response to a
reporter's question:
He concluded that, "This is not a neutral kind of examination" -- again questioning the
basis on which suspicions of pro-Kiev forces appeared to have been superficially ruled out from
the start.
"I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he
added, according to
Australia's ABC .
Russia has also rejected the conclusions of the European JIT report, saying the missile
that struck the civilian airliner was manufactured in the Soviet Union in 1986, and was part of
the Ukrainian army arsenal at the time of the shoot down.
The consensus of the "international community" is that the Russians are responsible.
Anything outside the consensus view is not permissible. That's how democracy works. And also
how science works.
I would trust the Dutch investigators about as much as I trust the OPCW with regard to
chemical weapons use.
Without Russia, ASSAD would be long gone and IRAN would have been bombed to oblivion, and
Greater Israhell would have been fulfilled and ruling over the MidEast.
Deep State had its hands all over that downed Aircraft, he who records History, creates
History, for proof compare schoolbooks from any different generations !
It shows everyone just how fucked up the world has gotten when a foreign leader has the
balls to speak some truth in public and what he said is instantly labeled "deeply
contrarian".
Keep this in mind when you hear anything negative about Russia coming out of the UK or out
of one of her spawn like Australia . . . Great Britain has had a total hard-on for Russia
going back over 200 years and to this day will do anything in their power to **** Russia over
any chance they get. It's primarily because of the actions of the UK that there's such an
anti-Russian push in the US right now.
The shoot down of MH17 was just another attempt to stick it to the Russians and there's
British finger prints all over that incident (for example, who still has the black boxes from
that flight and won't let the Russians or anyone else see them, hmm?).
I said it back then (er helped say it) - listen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4
. Ukrainian Su-25's strafed the pilots with bullets - it was no BUK missile
Another false flag from the evil cabal of blackhatted ZioNazi scum.The world needs to be
rid of this cancer...and to think that some of these Pentagram monsters are grandparents.
The litany of 'highly likely' accusations were so pervasive they were blacking out the sun
like a swarm of locusts. It's my hope that this is changing. More lies about Syria,
Venuzuala, Iran etc. told to save the liars with new war worries. Would be nice to see
normalcy come to the US, but maybe it must come completely apart first, I hope not. But the
empire is not looking too good lately.
Props to the Malay guy. Fragments of the missile used in the attack were found, and the
serial # recovered. The missile was made in Russia in the 80s, and shipped to Ukraine at that
time. There is an entire hand written inventory(it can be seen at Veteranstoday.com ) from date of manufacture up to it's
delivery to a missile battery in Ukraine. It remained there in the Ukraine until pieces of it
were recovered at the crash site. Check it out.
UKRAINE ELECTION. He was invited everywhere, pressed the flesh with everyone, has a whole
wall of ego pictures; in the end he was defeated by Anybody-At-All. I have no idea what
Zelensky will turn out to be and I doubt anyone else does either. But the conclusion is that
the entire "revolution of dignity" fiasco has been rejected: whatever Ukraine the voters want,
it's not the one Nuland & Co gave them.
Mahathir bin Mohamad, Prime Minister of Malaysia, in an interview with FCCJ (Foreign
Correspondents' Club of Japan) stated that he did not believe in Russia's involvement in the
crash of the Boeing MH17. The politician, in fact, directly accused the so-called JIT of
being biased and not transparent. Video at 40:56.
Just a few excerpts:
We should be involved in examining the black box. We may not have the expertise, but we can
buy expertise. But for some reason or other Malaysia was not allowed in to check on the
black box to see what happened.
<...>
They are accusing Russians of firing the missile but what is the evidence? We need
strong evidence to show that it was fired by the Russians, but it could have been the
rebels in Ukraine, it could even be the Ukrainian government because they too have the same
missile.
<...>
We don't know why we are excluded from the examination, but from the very beginning we
see too much politics in it. The idea was not to find out how this happened and all
that, but they seemed to be concentrated on trying to pin it on Russia . This is not a
neutral kind of examination.
<...>
Here we have parties who have some political interest in the matter and they
examine.
<...>
People from Russia - they are military people. Military people would know that it is a
passenger plane. <...> I don't think [that] discipline, very highly discipline party
would be responsible for launching the missile.
By the way, a year ago Malaysian Minister of Transport Anthony Loke
spoke about this. The JIT obviously found this "not very important". Who would doubt. The
task of covering up the Ukrainian regime that shot down the plane is still relevant. Just
wondering how many more years they will play this farce with an "investigation".
Mahathir bin Mohamad, Prime Minister of Malaysia, in an interview with FCCJ (Foreign
Correspondents' Club of Japan) stated that he did not believe in Russia's involvement in the
crash of the Boeing MH17. The politician, in fact, directly accused the so-called JIT of
being biased and not transparent.
------------------------
"... They will be the ones to blackmail Europe and Germany if Europe becomes dependent on LNG from the U.S. So everything U.S. administrations are yelling at others is just projection, one knows immediately that it is in fact what the U.S. is doing under the veil or will be doing when the need/opportunity will arise. ..."
"... Trump is not an aberration, it is just how the U.S. always behaved, but now it is in the open, for all to see, the crassness and the bullying. ..."
"... Germany is the linchpin of the world and the U.S. (and others) is becoming hysterical at the possibility of not keeping the Germans down any longer… ..."
"... American Jewish intellectuals have really jumped the shark since the Iraq War. The most outlandish, slandering statements are stuffed into their essays and they trash whole peoples at the slightest “offence” to their worldview. ..."
If Daenerys Targaryen had announced her desire to use her last dragon to torch Moscow and
Saint Petersburg, the Neocons would have lionized her as the womanly exemplar of democracy
and wise foreign policy that produces peace and justice for all.
Neocons are very much the evil they call us to battle.
I had to rub my eyes with incredulity when I read that.
If Russia wants to weaken Ukraine, why did it ever build a pipeline through it in the first
place? Russia didn't stop using the Ukraine pipeline intially for political reasons. It was
because Ukraine was stealing gas meant for pass-through to other European countries and it
wasn't paying its bills. Don't pay your utility bills and see what happens.
Russia does not want to "control" Germany with Nord Stream, it wants to make money. And
Germany wants cheap gas. Strictly business.
And how can Russia control Germany with Nord Stream when it knows that the first time it
shuts off gas for political reasons would be the last. Because Russia knows that Germany will
find alternative suppliers and never come back. The Russians ain't stupid.
Russia wants bilateral trade with Europe without the Global Cop Gorilla perpetually in the
background arrogant calling the shots.
The final reconciliation of Europe and Russia should have occurred 25 years but didn't
because the ham-fisted United States threw up the fear-monger barriers. And that was because
its National Security States wants an existential "enemy" to justify its massive costs.
The sooner Europe ejects the U.S. War Machine from its territories the better. Better for
Europe, better for Russia and better for the American taxpayers.
I am with SteveM here. And I was shocked to see MarkVA’s comment. Mark has proved to
be a respectable commentator, especially on Rod’s Blog, with very astute and sensible
observations. It seems that tribalism is clouding his judgment when observing the world outside
the U.S.
It is well known that the Soviets and the Russians always keep their end of the bargain and
they know if they don’t do so they will end up loosing and being vilified. Whereas the
U.S. always breaks its agreements, it is not thrust worthy (not agreement capable). Imagine
depending on such an economic partner?!
They will be the ones to blackmail Europe and Germany if Europe becomes dependent on LNG
from the U.S. So everything U.S. administrations are yelling at others is just projection, one
knows immediately that it is in fact what the U.S. is doing under the veil or will be doing
when the need/opportunity will arise.
Trump is not an aberration, it is just how the U.S. always behaved, but now it is in the
open, for all to see, the crassness and the bullying.
Germany is the linchpin of the world and the U.S. (and others) is becoming hysterical at
the possibility of not keeping the Germans down any longer… And Germany is moving
ahead. It just sacrificed West Bank, and declared the BDS movement illegal as a soap to
Israelis, to burnish its credentials with those blackmailers, so that it will become free to
re-orient its politics and strategic configuration as it needs and wants.
fabian, May 23, 2019 at 2:33 pm
Gas? Where is the problem? Russian gas is cheaper that’s it. Furthermore, there is
another pipeline that’s going to bring gas from the Mediterranean to Europe and another
from Qatar.
And if all else fails and Russia flexes its muscles (which ones by the way) do you think
that the over-indebted America will not sell its gas to the Germans?
And yes, it’s not a good strategy to be too dependent on America. It quickly takes the
goods away when its interests are at stake.
Tiktaalik, May 24, 2019 at 5:14 pm
@MarkVA
>>The Nord Stream I and II gas pipe lines (aka Molotov-Ribbentrop Gas Lines), a
Gazprom initiative, has everything to do with weakening Ukraine and increasing German energy
dependence on Russia;
How could NS increase German energy dependence on Russia? It will be the very same gas which
at the moment flows through the Ukraine.
Surely, NS would decrease anybody’s dependence from the Ukraine. So what?
Tiktaalik, May 24, 2019 at 5:18 pm
@MarkVA
>>Oh, and some lesser European countries were partitioned by the important European
countries. So yes, Europe was quite busy spreading joy and happiness all around:
It’s a bit rich when it’s coming from an American. You’re still in
Plymouth, right?
Kouros, May 24, 2019 at 11:35 pm
@MarkVA (May 23, 2019 at 8:12 pm )
That was a hit with the posting on Ukraine…
To bad it wasn’t accompanied by the Recognition of the US administration that the
Golan Heights, taken from Syria by Israel after a war, against all worlds dictum, now belongs
to Israel.
At least in Crimea, which by administrative fiat was moved within USSR from Russia to
Ukraine in the 1950s, there was a referendum.
And for me, US is Devil Incarnate since it put a target of nuclear missiles on my mother
country. May the curse of a 1000 hells be upon it.
Josep, May 25, 2019 at 5:05 am
Reading sites like Russia Insider gave me the notion that Germany would be better off as
allies with Russia than with the USA. After all, Russia and Germany:
* are on the metric system
* have languages that use grammatical gender
* share the same 220-volt “Schuko” power plugs and sockets
* implement Civil Law, and most importantly
* aren’t separated by a whole ocean.
American Jewish intellectuals have really jumped the shark since the Iraq War. The most
outlandish, slandering statements are stuffed into their essays and they trash whole peoples at
the slightest “offence” to their worldview.
There are strong anti-German currents in American culture and politics, going back to at
least WW1 and also manifest today (no other treaty ally is treated with such dismissive
hostility by the Trump administration as Germany). But they are regarded as completely normal
and rarely get critical attention, whereas German anti-Americanism is treated as a pathology or
some kind of sacrilege…the German-American relationship (calling it
“friendship” is a lie) is profoundly asymmetrical.
Agreed in both counts. The casual anti-white racism thrown about by the likes of such people
(let’s not forget Davids Medienkritik, Little Green Footballs, Grouchy Old Cripple and
Dissident Frogman) is a lot scarier than any jumpscare I’ve encountered. And in the case of
German_reader’s comment, It’d be interesting to consider how Trump reconciles his
hostility towards Germany with his own German heritage.
At one point in the Iraq War, the German news outlet Der Spiegel had readers rate their
opinion of president Bush on their website on a scale of 1 (most favorable) to, if I recall
correctly, 6 (least favorable). After seeing public opinion of Bush in Germany overwhelmingly
“least favorable”, users of FreeRepublic went to this poll and attempted to
gerrymander the results by selecting “most favorable”, deleting their site cookies,
and repeating so as to make it look like more people in Germany supported Bush than opposed. This
was called “freeping”.
The Minister of foreign Affairs of Ukraine Pavlo Klimkin tried to advertise in press the
fact that he that wrote the resignation which will send to the Verkhovna Rada on May 20 -- the
day of inauguration of the newly elected President of the country Vladimir Zelensky.
The Deputy of the Ukrainian Parliament Evgeny Balitsky told in an exclusive interview to
Federal News Agency that everything that occurs in his homeland recently, reminds flight of
rats from the ship.
"Now all run up, the administration leaves all systems, they, figuratively speaking, take
away even the coffee, slippers and caps from the bar, -- he noted. -- We have never seen such a humiliating
transition of power. It all. We saw similar episodes after (Viktor) Yushchenko and (Viktor)
Yanukovich, but never this behaviour was such rabid, widespread and ugly"
Such, as the representative of party "Oppositional block" called it, "swine behaviour", you know,
"digging out dirt from under nails in public" never occurred before. He noted that the current President of Ukraine
Petro Poroshenko, leaving, appointed new people to several departments.
"He does, you know, things that are not what the President, but any decent man would never
do because this is just too ugly to do - complained the MP. -- It make sense to go beautifully,
humanly, with dignity! And today that rats like Klimkin make statements how much they have done
for people. For us, it's a lost five years. Just lost."
The deputy stressed that Klimkin hardly ashamed of their work. "These people don't know the
word 'shame,' -- Balitsky said. -- These are people who for five years in the country destroyed
the relations with all neighbors. I'm talking not only about the Russian Federation! We
quarreled with Hungarians, Poles, Belarusians! We now have a conflict even with the Americans.
You see, how much harm this gang of American henchmen, have done to our poor country!"
The Deputy of Rada explained that "all these people" -- are corrupt businessmen who used
Ukraine to earn quick money.
"They invested money in the Maidan and came to power to get a royal return on the investment, -- Balitsky added.
-- For these people the word "shame" does not exists, this is a completely foreign concept. And they are now leaving, are trying
figuratively speaking to take the last pair of Slippers from their rooms, everything from the bar, grab from the buffet a couple
of sandwiches, as Zelensky said."
The MP concluded that this is a very humiliating process for all Ukrainians, and he is
personally ashamed of the power and statehood of his country.
President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko by his decree released Oleksandr Turchynov from the
post of Secretary of the national security and defense Council of Ukraine. This was reported on
the website of the presidential administration.
"To release Turchynov Alexander Valentinovich from the post of Secretary of the national
security and defense Council of Ukraine," the decree says.
Turchynov resigned the day before. The reason for dismissal - termination of powers of the
acting President of Ukraine who appointed Turchinov.
Secretary of the NSDC Turchinov has been working since December 2014. Prior to that, he
worked in the Verkhovna Rada, in the spring of the same year, acting President of Ukraine.
"... In an interview this month, Chalupa told Politico she had developed a network of sources in Kiev and Washington, including investigative journalists, government officials and private intelligence operatives. While her consulting work at the DNC this past election cycle centered on mobilizing ethnic communities -- including Ukrainian-Americans -- she said that, when Trump's unlikely presidential campaign began surging in late 2015, she began focusing more on the research, and expanded it to include Trump's ties to Russia, as well. ..."
"... Both Shulyar and Chalupa said the purpose of their initial meeting was to organize a June reception at the embassy to promote Ukraine. According to the embassy's website, the event highlighted female Ukrainian leaders, featuring speeches by Ukrainian parliamentarian Hanna Hopko, who discussed "Ukraine's fight against the Russian aggression in Donbas," and longtime Hillary Clinton confidante Melanne Verveer, who worked for Clinton in the State Department and was a vocal surrogate during the presidential campaign. ..."
"... Almost as quickly as Chalupa's efforts attracted the attention of the Ukrainian Embassy and Democrats, she also found herself the subject of some unwanted attention from overseas. ..."
"... Chalupa, though, indicated in an email that was later hacked and released by WikiLeaks that the Open World Leadership Center "put me on the program to speak specifically about Paul Manafort." ..."
"... In the email, which was sent in early May to then-DNC communications director Luis Miranda, Chalupa noted that she had extended an invitation to the Library of Congress forum to veteran Washington investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Two days before the event, he had published a story for Yahoo News revealing the unraveling of a $26 million deal between Manafort and a Russian oligarch related to a telecommunications venture in Ukraine. And Chalupa wrote in the email she'd been "working with for the past few weeks" with Isikoff "and connected him to the Ukrainians" at the event. ..."
"... A DNC official stressed that Chalupa was a consultant paid to do outreach for the party's political department, not a researcher. She undertook her investigations into Trump, Manafort and Russia on her own, and the party did not incorporate her findings in its dossiers on the subjects, the official said, stressing that the DNC had been building robust research books on Trump and his ties to Russia long before Chalupa began sounding alarms. ..."
"... Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a Ukrainian former diplomat who served as the country's head of security under Poroshenko but is now affiliated with a leading opponent of Poroshenko, said it was fishy that "only one part of the black ledger appeared." He asked, "Where is the handwriting analysis?" and said it was "crazy" to announce an investigation based on the ledgers. He met last month in Washington with Trump allies, and said, "of course they all recognize that our [anti-corruption bureau] intervened in the presidential campaign." ..."
"... Ukraine's minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, piled on, trashing Trump on Twitter in July as a "clown" and asserting that Trump is "an even bigger danger to the US than terrorism." ..."
"... Avakov, in a Facebook post, lashed out at Trump for his confusing Crimea comments, calling the assessment the "diagnosis of a dangerous misfit," according to a translated screenshot featured in one media report, though he later deleted the post. He called Trump "dangerous for Ukraine and the US" and noted that Manafort worked with Yanukovych when the former Ukrainian leader "fled to Russia through Crimea. Where would Manafort lead Trump?" ..."
Manafort's work for Yanukovych caught the attention of a veteran Democratic operative named Alexandra Chalupa, who had worked
in the White House Office of Public Liaison during the Clinton administration. Chalupa went on to work as a staffer, then as a consultant,
for Democratic National Committee. The DNC paid her $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016, according to Federal Election Commission records,
though she also was paid by other clients during that time, including Democratic campaigns and the DNC's arm for engaging expatriate
Democrats around the world.
A daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who maintains strong ties to the Ukrainian-American diaspora and the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine,
Chalupa, a lawyer by training, in 2014 was doing pro bono work for another client interested in the Ukrainian crisis and began researching
Manafort's role in Yanukovych's rise, as well as his ties to the pro-Russian oligarchs who funded Yanukovych's political party.
In an interview this month, Chalupa told Politico she had developed a network of sources in Kiev and Washington, including investigative
journalists, government officials and private intelligence operatives. While her consulting work at the DNC this past election cycle
centered on mobilizing ethnic communities -- including Ukrainian-Americans -- she said that, when Trump's unlikely presidential campaign
began surging in late 2015, she began focusing more on the research, and expanded it to include Trump's ties to Russia, as well.
She occasionally shared her findings with officials from the DNC and Clinton's campaign, Chalupa said. In January 2016 -- months
before Manafort had taken any role in Trump's campaign -- Chalupa told a senior DNC official that, when it came to Trump's campaign,
"I felt there was a Russia connection," Chalupa recalled. "And that, if there was, that we can expect Paul Manafort to be involved
in this election," said Chalupa, who at the time also was warning leaders in the Ukrainian-American community that Manafort was "Putin's
political brain for manipulating U.S. foreign policy and elections."
he said she shared her concern with Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S., Valeriy Chaly, and one of his top aides, Oksana Shulyar,
during a March 2016 meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy. According to someone briefed on the meeting, Chaly said that Manafort was very
much on his radar, but that he wasn't particularly concerned about the operative's ties to Trump since he didn't believe Trump stood
much of a chance of winning the GOP nomination, let alone the presidency.
That was not an uncommon view at the time, and, perhaps as a result, Trump's ties to Russia -- let alone Manafort's -- were not
the subject of much attention.
That all started to change just four days after Chalupa's meeting at the embassy, when it was reported that Trump had in fact hired
Manafort, suggesting that Chalupa may have been on to something. She quickly found herself in high demand. The day after Manafort's
hiring was revealed, she briefed the DNC's communications staff on Manafort, Trump and their ties to Russia, according to an operative
familiar with the situation.
A former DNC staffer described the exchange as an "informal conversation," saying "'briefing' makes it sound way too formal,"
and adding, "We were not directing or driving her work on this." Yet, the former DNC staffer and the operative familiar with the
situation agreed that with the DNC's encouragement, Chalupa asked embassy staff to try to arrange an interview in which Poroshenko
might discuss Manafort's ties to Yanukovych.
While the embassy declined that request, officials there became "helpful" in Chalupa's efforts, she said, explaining that she
traded information and leads with them. "If I asked a question, they would provide guidance, or if there was someone I needed to
follow up with." But she stressed, "There were no documents given, nothing like that."
Chalupa said the embassy also worked directly with reporters researching Trump, Manafort and Russia to point them in the right
directions. She added, though, "they were being very protective and not speaking to the press as much as they should have. I think
they were being careful because their situation was that they had to be very, very careful because they could not pick sides. It's
a political issue, and they didn't want to get involved politically because they couldn't."
Shulyar vehemently denied working with reporters or with Chalupa on anything related to Trump or Manafort, explaining "we were
stormed by many reporters to comment on this subject, but our clear and adamant position was not to give any comment [and] not to
interfere into the campaign affairs."
Both Shulyar and Chalupa said the purpose of their initial meeting was to organize a June reception at the embassy to promote
Ukraine. According to the embassy's website, the event highlighted female Ukrainian leaders, featuring speeches by Ukrainian parliamentarian
Hanna Hopko, who discussed "Ukraine's fight against the Russian aggression in Donbas," and longtime Hillary Clinton confidante Melanne
Verveer, who worked for Clinton in the State Department and was a vocal surrogate during the presidential campaign.
Shulyar said her work with Chalupa "didn't involve the campaign," and she specifically stressed that "We have never worked to
research and disseminate damaging information about Donald Trump and Paul Manafort."
But Andrii Telizhenko, who worked as a political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy under Shulyar, said she instructed him to help
Chalupa research connections between Trump, Manafort and Russia. "Oksana said that if I had any information, or knew other people
who did, then I should contact Chalupa," recalled Telizhenko, who is now a political consultant in Kiev. "They were coordinating
an investigation with the Hillary team on Paul Manafort with Alexandra Chalupa," he said, adding "Oksana was keeping it all quiet,"
but "the embassy worked very closely with" Chalupa.
In fact, sources familiar with the effort say that Shulyar specifically called Telizhenko into a meeting with Chalupa to provide
an update on an American media outlet's ongoing investigation into Manafort.
Telizhenko recalled that Chalupa told him and Shulyar that, "If we can get enough information on Paul [Manafort] or Trump's involvement
with Russia, she can get a hearing in Congress by September."
Chalupa confirmed that, a week after Manafort's hiring was announced, she discussed the possibility of a congressional investigation
with a foreign policy legislative assistant in the office of Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio), who co-chairs the Congressional Ukrainian
Caucus. But, Chalupa said, "It didn't go anywhere."
Asked about the effort, the Kaptur legislative assistant called it a "touchy subject" in an internal email to colleagues that
was accidentally forwarded to Politico.
Kaptur's office later emailed an official statement explaining that the lawmaker is backing a bill to create an independent commission
to investigate "possible outside interference in our elections." The office added "at this time, the evidence related to this matter
points to Russia, but Congresswoman Kaptur is concerned with any evidence of foreign entities interfering in our elections."
•••
Almost as quickly as Chalupa's efforts attracted the attention of the Ukrainian Embassy and Democrats, she also found herself
the subject of some unwanted attention from overseas.
Within a few weeks of her initial meeting at the embassy with Shulyar and Chaly, Chalupa on April 20 received the first of what
became a series of messages from the administrators of her private Yahoo email account, warning her that "state-sponsored actors"
were trying to hack into her emails.
She kept up her crusade, appearing on a panel a week after the initial hacking message to discuss her research on Manafort with
a group of Ukrainian investigative journalists gathered at the Library of Congress for a program sponsored by a U.S. congressional
agency called the Open World Leadership Center.
Center spokeswoman Maura Shelden stressed that her group is nonpartisan and ensures "that our delegations hear from both sides
of the aisle, receiving bipartisan information." She said the Ukrainian journalists in subsequent days met with Republican officials
in North Carolina and elsewhere. And she said that, before the Library of Congress event, "Open World's program manager for Ukraine
did contact Chalupa to advise her that Open World is a nonpartisan agency of the Congress."
Chalupa, though, indicated in an email that was later hacked and released by WikiLeaks that the Open World Leadership Center
"put me on the program to speak specifically about Paul Manafort."
In the email, which was sent in early May to then-DNC communications director Luis Miranda, Chalupa noted that she had extended
an invitation to the Library of Congress forum to veteran Washington investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Two days before the
event, he had published a story for Yahoo News revealing the unraveling of a $26 million deal between Manafort and a Russian oligarch
related to a telecommunications venture in Ukraine. And Chalupa wrote in the email she'd been "working with for the past few weeks"
with Isikoff "and connected him to the Ukrainians" at the event.
Isikoff, who accompanied Chalupa to a reception at the Ukrainian Embassy immediately after the Library of Congress event, declined
to comment.
Chalupa further indicated in her hacked May email to the DNC that she had additional sensitive information about Manafort that
she intended to share "offline" with Miranda and DNC research director Lauren Dillon, including "a big Trump component you and Lauren
need to be aware of that will hit in next few weeks and something I'm working on you should be aware of." Explaining that she didn't
feel comfortable sharing the intel over email, Chalupa attached a screenshot of a warning from Yahoo administrators about "state-sponsored"
hacking on her account, explaining, "Since I started digging into Manafort these messages have been a daily occurrence on my yahoo
account despite changing my password often."
Dillon and Miranda declined to comment.
A DNC official stressed that Chalupa was a consultant paid to do outreach for the party's political department, not a researcher.
She undertook her investigations into Trump, Manafort and Russia on her own, and the party did not incorporate her findings in its
dossiers on the subjects, the official said, stressing that the DNC had been building robust research books on Trump and his ties
to Russia long before Chalupa began sounding alarms.
Nonetheless, Chalupa's hacked email reportedly escalated concerns among top party officials, hardening their conclusion that Russia
likely was behind the cyber intrusions with which the party was only then beginning to grapple.
Chalupa left the DNC after the Democratic convention in late July to focus fulltime on her research into Manafort, Trump and Russia
. She said she provided off-the-record information and guidance to "a lot of journalists" working on stories related to Manafort
and Trump's Russia connections, despite what she described as escalating harassment.
... ... ...
•••
While it's not uncommon for outside operatives to serve as intermediaries between governments and reporters, one of the more damaging
Russia-related stories for the Trump campaign -- and certainly for Manafort -- can be traced more directly to the Ukrainian government.
Documents released by an independent Ukrainian government agency -- and publicized by a parliamentarian -- appeared to show $12.7
million in cash payments that were earmarked for Manafort by the Russia-aligned party of the deposed former president, Yanukovych.
The New York Times, in the August story revealing the ledgers' existence, reported that the payments earmarked for Manafort were
"a focus" of an investigation by Ukrainian anti-corruption officials, while CNN reported days later that the FBI was pursuing an
overlapping inquiry.
Clinton's campaign seized on the story to advance Democrats' argument that Trump's campaign was closely linked to Russia. The
ledger represented "more troubling connections between Donald Trump's team and pro-Kremlin elements in Ukraine," Robby Mook, Clinton's
campaign manager, said in a statement. He demanded that Trump "disclose campaign chair Paul Manafort's and all other campaign employees'
and advisers' ties to Russian or pro-Kremlin entities, including whether any of Trump's employees or advisers are currently representing
and or being paid by them."
A former Ukrainian investigative journalist and current parliamentarian named Serhiy Leshchenko, who was elected in 2014 as part
of Poroshenko's party, held a news conference to highlight the ledgers, and to urge Ukrainian and American law enforcement to aggressively
investigate Manafort.
"I believe and understand the basis of these payments are totally against the law -- we have the proof from these books," Leshchenko
said during the news conference, which attracted international media coverage. "If Mr. Manafort denies any allegations, I think he
has to be interrogated into this case and prove his position that he was not involved in any misconduct on the territory of Ukraine,"
Leshchenko added.
Manafort
denied receiving any off-books cash from Yanukovych's Party of Regions, and said that he had never been contacted about the ledger
by Ukrainian or American investigators, later telling POLITICO "I was just caught in the crossfire."
According to a
series of memos reportedly compiled for Trump's opponents by a former British intelligence agent, Yanukovych, in a secret meeting
with Putin on the day after the Times published its report, admitted that he had authorized "substantial kickback payments
to Manafort." But according to the report, which was
published Tuesday
by BuzzFeed but remains unverified. Yanukovych assured Putin "that there was no documentary trail left behind which could provide
clear evidence of this" -- an alleged statement that seemed to implicitly question the authenticity of the ledger.
The scrutiny around the ledgers -- combined with that from
other stories about his
Ukraine
work -- proved too much, and he
stepped down from the
Trump campaign less than a week after the Times story.
At the time, Leshchenko suggested that his motivation was partly to undermine Trump. "For me, it was important to show not only
the corruption aspect, but that he is [a] pro-Russian candidate who can break the geopolitical balance in the world," Leshchenko
told the Financial Times about two weeks after his news conference. The newspaper noted that Trump's candidacy had spurred "Kiev's
wider political leadership to do something they would never have attempted before: intervene, however indirectly, in a U.S. election,"
and the story quoted Leshchenko asserting that the majority of Ukraine's politicians are "on Hillary Clinton's side."
But by this month, Leshchenko was seeking to recast his motivation, telling Politico, "I didn't care who won the U.S. elections.
This was a decision for the American voters to decide." His goal in highlighting the ledgers, he said was "to raise these issues
on a political level and emphasize the importance of the investigation."
In a series of answers provided to Politico, a spokesman for Poroshenko distanced his administration from both Leshchenko's efforts
and those of the agency that reLeshchenko Leshchenko leased the ledgers, The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine. It was created
in 2014 as a condition for Ukraine to receive aid from the U.S. and the European Union, and it signed an evidence-sharing agreement
with the FBI in late June -- less than a month and a half before it released the ledgers.
The bureau is "fully independent," the Poroshenko spokesman said, adding that when it came to the presidential administration
there was "no targeted action against Manafort." He added "as to Serhiy Leshchenko, he positions himself as a representative of internal
opposition in the Bloc of Petro Poroshenko's faction, despite [the fact that] he belongs to the faction," the spokesman said, adding,
"it was about him personally who pushed [the anti-corruption bureau] to proceed with investigation on Manafort."
But an operative who has worked extensively in Ukraine, including as an adviser to Poroshenko, said it was highly unlikely that
either Leshchenko or the anti-corruption bureau would have pushed the issue without at least tacit approval from Poroshenko or his
closest allies.
"It was something that Poroshenko was probably aware of and could have stopped if he wanted to," said the operative.
And, almost immediately after Trump's stunning victory over Clinton, questions began mounting about the investigations into the
ledgers -- and the ledgers themselves.
An official with the anti-corruption bureau told a Ukrainian newspaper, "Mr. Manafort does not have a role in this case."
And, while the anti-corruption bureau told Politico late last month that a "general investigation [is] still ongoing" of the ledger,
it said Manafort is not a target of the investigation. "As he is not the Ukrainian citizen, [the anti-corruption bureau] by the law
couldn't investigate him personally," the bureau said in a statement.
Some Poroshenko critics have gone further, suggesting that the bureau is backing away from investigating because the ledgers might
have been doctored or even forged.
Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a Ukrainian former diplomat who served as the country's head of security under Poroshenko but is now affiliated
with a leading opponent of Poroshenko, said it was fishy that "only one part of the black ledger appeared." He asked, "Where is the
handwriting analysis?" and said it was "crazy" to announce an investigation based on the ledgers. He met last month in Washington
with Trump allies, and said, "of course they all recognize that our [anti-corruption bureau] intervened in the presidential campaign."
And in an interview this week, Manafort, who re-emerged as an informal advisor to Trump after Election Day, suggested that the
ledgers were inauthentic and called their publication "a politically motivated false attack on me. My role as a paid consultant was
public. There was nothing off the books, but the way that this was presented tried to make it look shady."
He added that he felt particularly wronged by efforts to cast his work in Ukraine as pro-Russian, arguing "all my efforts were
focused on helping Ukraine move into Europe and the West." He specifically cited his work on denuclearizing the country and on the
European Union trade and political pact that Yanukovych spurned before fleeing to Russia. "In no case was I ever involved in anything
that would be contrary to U.S. interests," Manafort said.
Yet Russia seemed to come to the defense of Manafort and Trump last month, when a spokeswoman for Russia's Foreign Ministry charged
that the Ukrainian government used the ledgers as a political weapon.
"Ukraine seriously complicated the work of Trump's election campaign headquarters by planting information according to which Paul
Manafort, Trump's campaign chairman, allegedly accepted money from Ukrainian oligarchs," Maria Zakharova said at a news briefing,
according to a transcript of her remarks posted on the Foreign Ministry's website. "All of you have heard this remarkable story,"
she told assembled reporters.
•••
Beyond any efforts to sabotage Trump, Ukrainian officials didn't exactly extend a hand of friendship to the GOP nominee during
the campaign.
The ambassador, Chaly, penned an op-ed for The Hill, in which he chastised Trump for a confusing series of statements in which
the GOP candidate at one point expressed a willingness to consider recognizing Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian territory of
Crimea as legitimate. The op-ed made some in the embassy uneasy, sources said.
"That was like too close for comfort, even for them," said Chalupa. "That was something that was as risky as they were going to
be."
Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk warned on Facebook that Trump had "challenged the very values of the free world."
Ukraine's minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, piled on, trashing Trump on Twitter in July as a "clown" and asserting that
Trump is "an even bigger danger to the US than terrorism."
Avakov, in a Facebook post, lashed out at Trump for his confusing Crimea comments, calling the assessment the "diagnosis of a
dangerous misfit," according to a translated screenshot featured in one media report, though he later deleted the post. He called
Trump "dangerous for Ukraine and the US" and noted that Manafort worked with Yanukovych when the former Ukrainian leader "fled to
Russia through Crimea. Where would Manafort lead Trump?"
The Trump-Ukraine relationship grew even more fraught in September with reports that the GOP nominee had snubbed Poroshenko on
the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, where the Ukrainian president tried to meet both major party candidates,
but scored only a meeting with Clinton.
Telizhenko, the former embassy staffer, said that, during the primaries, Chaly, the country's ambassador in Washington, had actually
instructed the embassy not to reach out to Trump's campaign, even as it was engaging with those of Clinton and Trump's leading GOP
rival, Ted Cruz.
"We had an order not to talk to the Trump team, because he was critical of Ukraine and the government and his critical position
on Crimea and the conflict," said Telizhenko. "I was yelled at when I proposed to talk to Trump," he said, adding, "The ambassador
said not to get involved -- Hillary is going to win."
This account was confirmed by Nalyvaichenko, the former diplomat and security chief now affiliated with a Poroshenko opponent,
who said, "The Ukrainian authorities closed all doors and windows -- this is from the Ukrainian side." He called the strategy "bad
and short-sighted."
Andriy Artemenko, a Ukrainian parliamentarian associated with a conservative opposition party, did meet with Trump's team during
the campaign and said he personally offered to set up similar meetings for Chaly but was rebuffed.
"It was clear that they were supporting Hillary Clinton's candidacy," Artemenko said. "They did everything from organizing meetings
with the Clinton team, to publicly supporting her, to criticizing Trump. I think that they simply didn't meet because they thought
that Hillary would win."
Shulyar rejected the characterizations that the embassy had a ban on interacting with Trump, instead explaining that it "had different
diplomats assigned for dealing with different teams tailoring the content and messaging. So it was not an instruction to abstain
from the engagement but rather an internal discipline for diplomats not to get involved into a field she or he was not assigned to,
but where another colleague was involved."
And she pointed out that Chaly traveled to the GOP convention in Cleveland in late July and met with members of Trump's foreign
policy team "to highlight the importance of Ukraine and the support of it by the U.S."
Despite the outreach, Trump's campaign in Cleveland gutted a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that called for
the U.S. to provide "lethal defensive weapons" for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian incursion, backers of the measure charged.
The outreach ramped up after Trump's victory. Shulyar pointed out that Poroshenko was among the first foreign leaders to call
to congratulate Trump. And she said that, since Election Day, Chaly has met with close Trump allies, including Sens. Jeff Sessions,
Trump's nominee for attorney general, and Bob Corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, while the ambassador
accompanied Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze, Ukraine's vice prime minister for European and Euro-Atlantic integration, to a round of Washington
meetings with Rep. Tom Marino (R-Pa.), an early Trump backer, and Jim DeMint, president of The Heritage Foundation, which played
a prominent role in Trump's transition.
•••
Many Ukrainian officials and operatives and their American allies see Trump's inauguration this month as an existential threat
to the country, made worse, they admit, by the dissemination of the secret ledger, the antagonistic social media posts and the perception
that the embassy meddled against -- or at least shut out -- Trump.
"It's really bad. The [Poroshenko] administration right now is trying to re-coordinate communications," said Telizhenko, adding,
"The Trump organization doesn't want to talk to our administration at all."
During Nalyvaichenko's trip to Washington last month, he detected lingering ill will toward Ukraine from some, and lack of
interest from others, he recalled. "Ukraine is not on the top of the list, not even the middle," he said.
Poroshenko's allies are scrambling to figure out how to build a relationship with Trump, who is known for harboring and prosecuting
grudges for years.
A delegation of Ukrainian parliamentarians allied with Poroshenko last month traveled to Washington partly to try to make inroads
with the Trump transition team, but they were unable to secure a meeting, according to a Washington foreign policy operative familiar
with the trip. And operatives in Washington and Kiev say that after the election, Poroshenko met in Kiev with top executives from
the Washington lobbying firm BGR -- including Ed Rogers and Lester Munson -- about how to navigate the Trump regime.
Weeks later, BGR reported to the Department of Justice that the government of Ukraine would pay the firm $50,000 a month to "provide
strategic public relations and government affairs counsel," including "outreach to U.S. government officials, non-government organizations,
members of the media and other individuals."
Firm spokesman Jeffrey Birnbaum suggested that "pro-Putin oligarchs" were already trying to sow doubts about BGR's work with Poroshenko.
While the firm maintains close relationships with GOP congressional leaders, several of its principals were dismissive or sharply
critical of Trump during the GOP primary, which could limit their effectiveness lobbying the new administration.
The Poroshenko regime's standing with Trump is considered so dire that the president's allies after the election actually reached
out to make amends with -- and even seek assistance from -- Manafort, according to two operatives familiar with Ukraine's efforts
to make inroads with Trump.
Meanwhile, Poroshenko's rivals are seeking to capitalize on his dicey relationship with Trump's team. Some are pressuring him
to replace Chaly, a close ally of Poroshenko's who is being blamed by critics in Kiev and Washington for implementing -- if not engineering
-- the country's anti-Trump efforts, according to Ukrainian and U.S. politicians and operatives interviewed for this story. They
say that several potential Poroshenko opponents have been through Washington since the election seeking audiences of their own with
Trump allies, though most have failed to do do so.
"None of the Ukrainians have any access to Trump -- they are all desperate to get it, and are willing to pay big for it," said
one American consultant whose company recently met in Washington with Yuriy Boyko, a former vice prime minister under Yanukovych.
Boyko, who like Yanukovych has a pro-Russian worldview, is considering a presidential campaign of his own, and his representatives
offered "to pay a shit-ton of money" to get access to Trump and his inaugural events, according to the consultant.
The consultant turned down the work, explaining, "It sounded shady, and we don't want to get in the middle of that kind of stuff."
Looks like Chalupa was an important player in Steele dossier. That suggests Ukrainian diaspora, and possibly Ukrainian SBU links.
Notable quotes:
"... Just worth noting that in the hand-written notes taken by Bruce Ohr after meetings with Chris Steele, there is the comment that the majority of the Steele Dossier was obtained from an expat Russian living in the US, and not from actual Russian sources in Russia. ..."
"... That would tend to work against theories that involve Skripal in a significant role in generating the dossier; though it would not rule him out in a more peripheral role ..."
"... We can also conclude neither bruce ohr, or the expat russian living in the us are neutral players in any of this too.. Was someone paid a fee to say something?? ..."
"... Steele is a stranger to the truth in any event so I wouldn't set much store by it – though if the dossier is third hand material at best it certainly explains why it is such rubbish. Steele's ability to get cash by selling steaming nonsense to the gullible is amazing. ..."
"... "A Ukrainian political consultant has revealed to Sputnik that former MI6 agent Christopher Steele sought and paid for researchers in Ukraine to concoct fake stories about Donald Trump prior his election as US president to use in the now-infamous dossier that supposedly contained damning evidence of Russia-Trump collusion. ..."
"... Radio Sputnik's Lee Stranahan spoke previously with Ukrainian political consultant and former diplomat Andrii Telizhenko about his connections to a Democratic National Committee (DNC) operative named Alexandra Chalupa who also worked for clients in Ukrainian politics. Chalupa told Politico in January 2017 that beginning in 2015, she pulled on a network of sources she'd established in Kiev and Washington to try and turn up dirt on Trump, once his star began to rise in the Republican primary campaign." ..."
Just worth noting that in the hand-written notes taken by Bruce Ohr after meetings with Chris Steele, there is the comment
that the majority of the Steele Dossier was obtained from an expat Russian living in the US, and not from actual Russian sources
in Russia.
That would tend to work against theories that involve Skripal in a significant role in generating the dossier; though it
would not rule him out in a more peripheral role.
We can also conclude neither bruce ohr, or the expat russian living in the us are neutral players in any of this too..
Was someone paid a fee to say something?? your last comment-conclusion is very shaky at best..
Could you give a link to the source of that info? Steele is a stranger to the truth in any event so I wouldn't set much
store by it – though if the dossier is third hand material at best it certainly explains why it is such rubbish. Steele's ability
to get cash by selling steaming nonsense to the gullible is amazing.
"A Ukrainian political consultant has revealed to Sputnik that former MI6 agent Christopher Steele sought and paid for
researchers in Ukraine to concoct fake stories about Donald Trump prior his election as US president to use in the now-infamous
dossier that supposedly contained damning evidence of Russia-Trump collusion.
Radio Sputnik's Lee Stranahan spoke previously with Ukrainian political consultant and former diplomat Andrii Telizhenko
about his connections to a Democratic National Committee (DNC) operative named Alexandra Chalupa who also worked for clients in
Ukrainian politics. Chalupa told Politico in January 2017 that beginning in 2015, she pulled on a network of sources she'd established
in Kiev and Washington to try and turn up dirt on Trump, once his star began to rise in the Republican primary campaign."
"... Also note: Crowdstrike planted the malware on DNC systems, which they "discovered" later - https://disobedientmedia.com/2017/12/fancy-frauds-bogus-bears-malware-m
..."
"... And look who else sits on the Atlantic Council - http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/about/experts/list/irene-chalupa why it's the
sister of Andrea Chalupa, unregistered foreign agent employed by the DNC as a "Consultant", whose entire family is tied to Ukraine Intelligence.
..."
"... Irena Chalupa is also the news anchor for Ukraine's propaganda channel Stopfake.org She is a Ukrainian Diaspora leader. The
Chalupas are the first family of Ukrainian propaganda. She works with and for Ukrainian Intelligence through the Atlantic Council, Stopfake.org,
and her sisters Andrea (EuromaidanPR) and Alexandra. ..."
(if that's too 'in the weeds' for you, ask your tech guys to read and verify)
And look who else sits on the Atlantic Council -
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/about/experts/list/irene-chalupa
why it's the sister of Andrea Chalupa, unregistered foreign agent employed by the DNC as a "Consultant", whose entire family
is tied to Ukraine Intelligence.
Irena Chalupa is also the news anchor for Ukraine's propaganda channel
Stopfake.org She is a
Ukrainian Diaspora
leader. The Chalupas are the first family of Ukrainian propaganda. She works with and for Ukrainian Intelligence through
the Atlantic Council, Stopfake.org, and her sisters Andrea (EuromaidanPR) and Alexandra.
"... Ukraine has been screaming for the US to start a war with Russia for the past 2 1/2 years. ..."
"... Is Ukrainian Intelligence trying to invent a reason for the US to take a hard-line stance against Russia? Are they using Crowdstrike to carry this out? ..."
"... Meet the real Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear, part of the groups that are targeting Ukrainian positions for the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. These people were so tech savvy they didn't know the Ukrainian SBU (Ukrainian CIA/internal security) records every phone call and most internet use in Ukraine and Donbass. Donbass still uses Ukrainian phone and internet services. ..."
"... This is a civil war and people supporting either side are on both sides of the contact line. The SBU is awestruck because there are hundreds if not thousands of people helping to target the private volunteer armies supported by Ukrainian-Americans. ..."
"... If she was that close to the investigation Crowdstrike did how credible is she? Her sister Alexandra was named one of 16 people that shaped the election by Yahoo news. The DNC hacking investigation done by Crowdstrike concluded hacking was done by Russian actors based on the work done by Alexandra Chalupa? That is the conclusion of her sister Andrea Chalupa and obviously enough for Crowdstrike to make the Russian government connection. These words mirror Dimitri Alperovitch's identification process in his interview with PBS Judy Woodruff. ..."
"... How close is Dimitri Alperovitch to DNC officials? Close enough professionally he should have stepped down from an investigation that had the chance of throwing a presidential election in a new direction. ..."
"... According to Esquire.com , Alperovitch has vetted speeches for Hillary Clinton about cyber security issues in the past. Because of his work on the Sony hack, President Barrack Obama personally called and said the measures taken were directly because of his work. ..."
"... Still, this is not enough to show a conflict of interest. Alperovitch's relationships with the Chalupas, radical groups, think tanks, Ukrainian propagandists, and Ukrainian state supported hackers do. When it all adds up and you see it together, we have found a Russian that tried hard to influence the outcome of the US presidential election in 2016. ..."
"... According to Robert Parry's article At the forefront of people that would have taken senior positions in a Clinton administration and especially in foreign policy are the Atlantic Council. Their main goal is still a major confrontation with nuclear-armed Russia. ..."
"... The Atlantic Council is the think tank associated and supported by the CEEC (Central and Eastern European Coalition). The CEEC has only one goal which is war with Russia. Their question to candidates looking for their support in the election was "Are you willing to go to war with Russia?" Hillary Clinton has received their unqualified support throughout the campaign. ..."
"... What does any of this have to do with Dimitri Alperovitch and Crowdstrike? Since the Atlantic Council would have taken senior cabinet and policy positions, his own fellowship status at the Atlantic Council and relationship with Irene Chalupa creates a definite conflict of interest for Crowdstrike's investigation. Trump's campaign was gaining ground and Clinton needed a boost. Had she won, would he have been in charge of the CIA, NSA, or Homeland Security? ..."
"... Alperovitch's relationship with Andrea Chalupa's efforts and Ukrainian intelligence groups is where things really heat up. Noted above she works with Euromaidanpress.com and Informnapalm.org which is the outlet for Ukrainian state-sponsored hackers. ..."
"... When you look at Dimitri Alperovitch's twitter relationships, you have to ask why the CEO of a $150 million dollar company like Crowdstrike follows Ukrainian InformNapalm and its hackers individually . There is a mutual relationship. When you add up his work for the OUNb, Ukraine, support for Ukraine's Intelligence, and to the hackers it needs to be investigated to see if Ukraine is conspiring against the US government. ..."
"... Alperovitch and Fancy Bear tweet each other? ..."
"... Crowdstrike is part of Ukrainian nationalist hacker network ..."
"... In an interview with Euromaidanpress these hackers say they have no need for the CIA. They consider the CIA amateurish. They also say they are not part of the Ukrainian military Cyberalliance is a quasi-organization with the participation of several groups – RUH8, Trinity, Falcon Flames, Cyberhunta. There are structures affiliated to the hackers – the Myrotvorets site, Informnapalm analytical agency." ..."
"... Although OSINT Academy sounds fairly innocuous, it's the official twitter account for Ukraine's Ministry of Information head Dimitri Zolotukin. It is also Ukrainian Intelligence. The Ministry of Information started the Peacekeeper or Myrotvorets website that geolocates journalists and other people for assassination. If you disagree with OUNb politics, you could be on the list. ..."
"... This single tweet on a network chart shows that out of all the Ukrainian Ministry of Information Minister's following, he only wanted the 3 hacking groups associated with both him and Alperovitch to get the tweet. Alperovitch's story was received and not retweeted or shared. If this was just Alperovitch's victory, it was a victory for Ukraine. It would be shared heavily. If it was a victory for the hacking squad, it would be smart to keep it to themselves and not draw unwanted attention. ..."
"... Pravy Sektor Hackers and Crowdstrike? ..."
"... What sharp movements in international politics have been made lately? Let me spell it out for the 17 US Intelligence Agencies so there is no confusion. These state sponsored, Russian language hackers in Eastern European time zones have shown with the Surkov hack they have the tools and experience to hack states that are looking out for it. They are also laughing at US intel efforts. ..."
"... The hackers also made it clear that they will do anything to serve Ukraine. Starting a war between Russia and the USA is the one way they could serve Ukraine best, and hurt Russia worst. Given those facts, if the DNC hack was according to the criteria given by Alperovitch, both he and these hackers need to be investigated. ..."
"... According to the Esquire interview "Alperovitch was deeply frustrated: He thought the government should tell the world what it knew. There is, of course, an element of the personal in his battle cry. "A lot of people who are born here don't appreciate the freedoms we have, the opportunities we have, because they've never had it any other way," he told me. "I have." ..."
"... While I agree patriotism is a great thing, confusing it with this kind of nationalism is not. Alperovitch seems to think by serving OUNb Ukraine's interests and delivering a conflict with Russia that is against American interests, he's a patriot. He isn't serving US interests. He's definitely a Ukrainian patriot. Maybe he should move to Ukraine. ..."
In the wake of the JAR-16-20296 dated December 29, 2016 about hacking and influencing the
2016 election, the need for real evidence is clear. The joint report adds nothing substantial
to the October 7th report. It relies on proofs provided by the cyber security firm Crowdstrike
that is clearly not on par with intelligence findings or evidence. At the top of the report is
an "as is" statement showing this.
The difference between Dmitri Alperovitch's claims which are reflected in JAR-1620296 and
this article is that enough evidence is provided to warrant an investigation of specific
parties for the DNC hacks. The real story involves specific anti-American actors that need to
be investigated for real crimes.
For instance, the malware used was an out-dated version just waiting to be found. The one
other interesting point is that the Russian malware called Grizzly Steppe
is from Ukraine . How did Crowdstrike miss this when it is their business to know?
Later in this article you'll meet and know a little more about the real "Fancy Bear and Cozy
Bear." The bar for identification set by Crowdstrike has never been able to get beyond words
like probably, maybe, could be, or should be, in their attribution.
The article is lengthy because the facts need to be in one place. The bar Dimitri
Alperovitch set for identifying the hackers involved is that low. Other than asking America to
trust them, how many solid facts has Alperovitch provided to back his claim of Russian
involvement?
The December 29th JAR adds a flowchart that shows how a basic phishing hack is performed. It
doesn't add anything significant beyond that. Noticeably, they use both their designation APT
28 and APT 29 as well as the Crowdstrike labels of Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear separately.
This is important because information from outside intelligence agencies has the value of
rumor or unsubstantiated information at best according to policy. Usable intelligence needs to
be free from partisan politics and verifiable. Intel agencies noted back in the early 90's that
every private actor in the information game was radically political.
The
Hill.com article about Russia hacking the electric grid is a perfect example of why this
intelligence is political and not taken seriously. If any proof of Russian involvement existed,
the US would be at war. Under current laws of war, there would be no difference between an
attack on the power grid or a missile strike.
According
to the Hill "Private security firms provided more detailed forensic analysis, which the FBI
and DHS said Thursday correlated with the IC's findings.
"The Joint Analysis Report recognizes the excellent work undertaken by
security companies and private sector network owners and operators, and provides new indicators
of compromise and malicious infrastructure
identified during the course of investigations and incident response," read a statement. The
report identities two Russian intelligence groups already named by CrowdStrike and other
private security firms."
In an interview with Washingtonsblog , William Binney, the creator of the NSA global
surveillance system said "I expected to see the IP's or other signatures of APT's 28/29 [the
entities which the U.S. claims hacked the Democratic emails] and where they were located and
how/when the data got transferred to them from DNC/HRC [i.e. Hillary Rodham Clinton]/etc. They
seem to have been following APT 28/29 since at least 2015, so, where are they?"
According to the latest Washington Post story, Crowdstrike's CEO tied a group his company
dubbed "Fancy Bear" to targeting Ukrainian artillery positions in Debaltsevo as well as across
the Ukrainian civil war front for the past 2 years.
Alperovitch states in many articles the Ukrainians were using an Android app to target the
self-proclaimed Republics positions and that hacking this app was what gave targeting data to
the armies in Donbass instead.
Alperovitch first gained notice when he was the VP in charge of threat research with McAfee.
Asked to comment on Alperovitch's
discovery of Russian hacks on Larry King, John McAfee had this to say. "Based on all of his
experience, McAfee does not believe that Russians were behind the hacks on the Democratic
National Committee (DNC), John Podesta's emails, and the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign.
As he told RT, "if it looks like the Russians did it, then I can guarantee you it was not the
Russians."
How does Crowdstrike's story part with reality? First is the admission that it is probably,
maybe, could be Russia hacking the DNC. "
Intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin
'directing' the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to Wiki Leaks."
The public evidence never goes beyond the word possibility. While never going beyond that or
using facts, Crowdstrike insists that it's Russia behind both Clinton's and the Ukrainian
losses. NBC carried the story because one of the partners in Crowdstrike is also a consultant
for NBC.
According to NBC the story reads like this."
The company, Crowdstrike, was hired by the DNC to investigate the hack and issued a report
publicly attributing it to Russian intelligence. One of Crowdstrike's senior executives is
Shawn Henry, a former senior FBI official who consults for NBC News.
"But the Russians used the app to turn the tables on their foes, Crowdstrike says. Once a
Ukrainian soldier downloaded it on his Android phone, the Russians were able to eavesdrop on
his communications and determine his position through geo-location.
In June, Crowdstrike went public with its findings that two separate Russian intelligence
agencies had hacked the DNC. One, which Crowdstrike and other researchers call Cozy Bear, is
believed to be linked to Russia's CIA, known as the FSB. The other, known as Fancy Bear, is
believed to be tied to the military intelligence agency, called the GRU."
The information is so certain the level of proof never rises above "believed to be."
According to the December 12th Intercept article "Most importantly, the Post adds that
"intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin
'directing' the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to WikiLeaks."
Because Ukrainian soldiers are using a smartphone app they activate their geolocation to use
it. Targeting is from location to location. The app would need the current user location to
make it work.
In 2015 I wrote an article that showed many of the available open source tools that
geolocate, and track people. They even show street view. This means that using simple means,
someone with freeware or an online website, and not a military budget can look at what you are
seeing at any given moment.
Where Crowdstrike fails is insisting people believe that the code they see is (a) an
advanced way to geolocate and (b) it was how a state with large resources would do it. Would
you leave a calling card where you would get caught and fined through sanctions or worse? If
you use an anonymous online resource at least Crowdstrike won't believe you are Russian and
possibly up to something.
If you read that article and watch the video you'll see that using "geo-stalker" is a better
choice if you are on a low budget or no budget. Should someone tell the Russians they
overpaid?
According to Alperovitch, the smartphone app
plotted targets in about 15 seconds . This means that there is only a small window to get
information this way.
Using the open source tools I wrote about previously, you could track your targets all-day.
In 2014, most Ukrainian forces were using social media regularly. It would be easy to maintain
a map of their locations and track them individually.
From my research into those tools, someone using Python scripts would find it easy to take
photos, listen to conversations, turn on GPS, or even turn the phone on when they chose to.
Going a step further than Alperovitch, without the help of the Russian government, GRU, or FSB,
anyone could
take control of the drones Ukraine is fond of flying and land them. Or they could download
the footage the drones are taking. It's copy and paste at that point. Would you bother the FSB,
GRU, or Vladimir Putin with the details or just do it?
In the WaPo article Alperovitch states "The Fancy Bear crew evidently hacked the app,
allowing the GRU to use the phone's GPS coordinates to track the Ukrainian troops'
position.
In that way, the Russian military could then target the Ukrainian army with artillery and
other weaponry. Ukrainian brigades operating in eastern Ukraine were on the front lines of the
conflict with Russian-backed separatist forces during the early stages of the conflict in late
2014, CrowdStrike noted. By late 2014, Russian forces in the region numbered about 10,000. The
Android app was useful in helping the Russian troops locate Ukrainian artillery positions."
In late 2014,
I personally did the only invasive passport and weapons checks that I know of during the
Ukrainian civil war.
I spent days looking for the Russian army every major publication said were attacking
Ukraine. The keyword Cyber Security industry leader Alperovitch used is "evidently."
Crowdstrike noted that in late 2014, there were 10,000 Russian forces in the region.
When I did the passport and weapons check, it was under the condition there would be no
telephone calls. We went where I wanted to go. We stopped when I said to stop. I checked the
documents and the weapons with no obstacles. The weapons check was important because Ukraine
was stating that Russia was giving Donbass modern weapons at the time. Each weapon is stamped
with a manufacture date. The results are in the articles above.
Based on my findings which the CIA would call hard evidence, almost all the fighters had
Ukrainian passports. There are volunteers from other countries. In Debaltsevo today, I would
question Alperovitch's assertion of Russian troops based on the fact the passports will be
Ukrainian and reflect my earlier findings. There is no possibly, could be, might be, about
it.
The SBU, Olexander Turchinov, and the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense all agree that
Crowdstrike is dead wrong in this assessment . Although subtitles aren't on it, the former
Commandant of Ukrainian Army Headquarters thanks God Russia never invaded or Ukraine would have
been in deep trouble.
How could Dimitri Alperovitch and Crowdstrike be this wrong on easily checked detail and
still get this much media attention? Could the investment made by Google and some
very large players have anything to do with the media Crowdstrike is causing?
According to Alperovitch, the CEO of a $150 million dollar cyber security company "And when
you think about, well, who would be interested in targeting Ukraine artillerymen in eastern
Ukraine who has interest in hacking the Democratic Party, Russia government comes to mind, but
specifically, Russian military that would have operational over forces in the Ukraine and would
target these artillerymen."
That statement is most of the proof of Russian involvement he has. That's it, that's all the
CIA, FBI have to go on. It's why they can't certify the intelligence. It's why they can't get
beyond the threshold of maybe.
Woodruff then asked two important questions. She asked if Crowdstrike was still working for
the DNC. Alperovitch responded "We're protecting them going forward. The investigation is
closed in terms of what happened there. But certainly, we've seen the campaigns, political
organizations are continued to be targeted, and they continue to hire us and use our technology
to protect themselves."
Based on the evidence he presented Woodruff, there is no need to investigate further?
Obviously, there is no need, the money is rolling in.
Second and most important Judy Woodruff asked if there were any questions about conflicts of
interest, how he would answer? This is where Dmitri Alperovitch's story starts to unwind.
His response was "Well, this report was not about the DNC. This report was about information
we uncovered about what these Russian actors were doing in eastern Ukraine in terms of locating
these artillery units of the Ukrainian army and then targeting them. So, what we just did is
said that it looks exactly as the same to the evidence we've already uncovered from the DNC,
linking the two together."
Why is this reasonable statement going to take his story off the rails? First, let's look at
the facts surrounding his evidence and then look at the real conflicts of interest involved.
While carefully evading the question, he neglects to state his conflicts of interest are worthy
of a DOJ investigation. Can you mislead the federal government about national security issues
and not get investigated yourself?
If Alperovitch's evidence is all there is, then the US government owes some large apologies
to Russia.
After showing who is targeting Ukrainian artillerymen, we'll look at what might be a
criminal conspiracy.
Crowdstrike CEO Dmitri Alperovitch story about Russian hacks that cost Hillary Clinton the
election was broadsided by the SBU (Ukrainian Intelligence and Security) in Ukraine. If Dimitri
Alperovitch is working for Ukrainian Intelligence and is providing intelligence to 17 US
Intelligence Agencies is it a conflict of interest?
Ukraine has been screaming for the US to start a war with Russia for the past 2 1/2 years.
Using facts accepted by leaders on both sides of the conflict, the main proof Crowdstrike shows
for evidence doesn't just unravel, it falls apart. Is Ukrainian Intelligence trying to invent a
reason for the US to take a hard-line stance against Russia? Are they using Crowdstrike to
carry this out?
Real Fancy Bear?
Meet the real Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear, part of the groups that are targeting Ukrainian
positions for the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics. These people were so tech savvy they
didn't know the Ukrainian SBU (Ukrainian CIA/internal security) records every phone call and
most internet use in Ukraine and Donbass. Donbass still uses Ukrainian phone and internet
services.
These are normal people fighting back against private volunteer armies that target their
homes, schools, and hospitals. The private volunteer armies like Pravy Sektor, Donbas
Battalion, Azov, and Aidar have been cited for atrocities like child rape, torture, murder, and
kidnapping. That just gets the ball rolling. These are a large swath of the Ukrainian
servicemen Crowdstrike hopes to protect.
This story which just aired on Ukrainian news channel TCN shows the SBU questioning and
arresting some of what they call an army of people in the Ukrainian-controlled areas. This news
video shows people in Toretsk that provided targeting information to Donbass and people
probably caught up in the net accidentally.
This is a civil war and people supporting either side are on both sides of the contact line.
The SBU is awestruck because there are hundreds if not thousands of people helping to target
the private volunteer armies supported by Ukrainian-Americans.
The first person they show on the video is a woman named Olga Lubochka. On the video her
voice is heard from a recorded call saying " In the field, on the left about 130 degrees. Aim
and you'll get it." and then " Oh, you hit it so hard you leveled it to the ground.""Am I going
to get a medal for this?"
Other people caught up in the raid claim and probably were only calling friends they know.
It's common for people to call and tell their family about what is going on around them. This
has been a staple in the war especially in outlying villages for people aligned with both sides
of the conflict. A neighbor calls his friend and says "you won't believe what I just saw."
Another "fancy bear," Alexander Schevchenko was caught calling friends and telling them that
armored personnel carriers had just driven by.
Anatoli Prima, father of a DNR(Donetsk People's Republic) soldier was asked to find out what
unit was there and how many artillery pieces.
One woman providing information about fuel and incoming equipment has a husband fighting on
the opposite side in Gorlovka. Gorlovka is a major city that's been under artillery attack
since 2014. For the past 2 1/2 years, she has remained in their home in Toretsk. According to
the video, he's vowed to take no prisoners when they rescue the area.
When asked why they hate Ukraine so much, one responded that they just wanted things to go
back to what they were like before the coup in February 2014.
Another said they were born in the Soviet Union and didn't like what was going on in Kiev.
At the heart of this statement is the anti- OUN, antinationalist sentiment that most people
living in Ukraine feel. The OUNb Bandera killed millions of people in Ukraine, including
starving 3 million Soviet soldiers to death. The new Ukraine was founded
in 1991 by OUN nationalists outside the fledgling country.
Is giving misleading or false information to 17 US Intelligence Agencies a crime? If it's
done by a cyber security industry leader like Crowdstrike should that be investigated? If
unwinding the story from the "targeting of Ukrainian volunteers" side isn't enough, we should
look at this from the American perspective. How did the Russia influencing the election and DNC
hack story evolve? Who's involved? Does this pose conflicts of interest for Dmitri Alperovitch
and Crowdstrike? And let's face it, a hacking story isn't complete until real hackers with the
skills, motivation, and reason are exposed.
In the last article exploring the
DNC hacks the focus was on the Chalupas . The article focused on Alexandra, Andrea, and
Irene Chalupa. Their participation in the DNC hack story is what brought it to international
attention in the first place.
According to journalist and DNC activist Andrea Chalupa on her Facebook page "
After Chalupa sent the email to Miranda (which mentions that she had invited this reporter
to a meeting with Ukrainian journalists in Washington), it triggered high-level concerns within
the DNC, given the sensitive nature of her work. "That's when we knew it was the Russians,"
said a Democratic Party source who has been directly involved in the internal probe into the
hacked emails. In order to stem the damage, the source said, "we told her to stop her
research."" July 25, 2016
If she was that close to the investigation Crowdstrike did how credible is she? Her sister
Alexandra was named one of 16 people that shaped the election by Yahoo news. The DNC hacking
investigation done by Crowdstrike concluded hacking was done by Russian actors based on the
work done by Alexandra Chalupa? That is the conclusion of her sister Andrea Chalupa and
obviously enough for Crowdstrike to make the Russian government connection. These words mirror
Dimitri Alperovitch's identification process in his interview with PBS Judy Woodruff.
How close is Dimitri Alperovitch to DNC officials? Close enough professionally he should
have stepped down from an investigation that had the chance of throwing a presidential election
in a new direction.
According to Esquire.com ,
Alperovitch has vetted speeches for Hillary Clinton about cyber security issues in the
past. Because of his work on the Sony hack, President Barrack Obama personally called and said
the measures taken were directly because of his work.
Still, this is not enough to show a conflict of interest. Alperovitch's relationships with
the Chalupas, radical groups, think tanks, Ukrainian propagandists, and Ukrainian state
supported hackers do. When it all adds up and you see it together, we have found a Russian that
tried hard to influence the outcome of the US presidential election in 2016.
In my
previous article I showed in detail how the Chalupas fit into this. A brief bullet point
review looks like this.
The Chalupas are not Democrat or Republican. They are OUNb. The OUNb worked hard to start
a war between the USA and Russia for the last 50 years. According to the
Ukrainian Weekly in a rare open statement of their existence in 2011, "Other statements
were issued in the Ukrainian language by the leadership of the Organization of Ukrainian
Nationalists (B) and the International Conference in Support of Ukraine. The OUN (Bandera
wing) called for" What is OUNb Bandera? They follow the same political policy and platform
that was developed in the 1930's by Stepan Bandera. When these people go to a Holocaust
memorial they are celebrating both the dead and the OUNb SS that killed
There is no getting around this fact. The OUNb have no concept of democratic values and
want an authoritarian fascism.
Alexandra Chalupa- According
to the Ukrainian Weekly , "The effort, known as Digital Miadan, gained momentum following
the initial Twitter storms. Leading the effort were: Lara Chelak, Andrea Chalupa, Alexandra
Chalupa, Constatin Kostenko and others." The Digital Maidan was also how they raised money
for the coup. This was how the Ukrainian
emigres bought the bullets that were used on Euromaidan. Ukraine's chubby nazi, Dima
Yarosh stated openly he was taking money from the Ukrainian emigres during Euromaidan and
Pravy Sektor still fundraises openly in North America. The "Sniper
Massacre" on the Maidan in Ukraine by Dr. Ivan Katchanovski, University of Ottowa shows
clearly detailed evidence how the massacre happened. It has Pravy Sektor confessions that
show who created the "heavenly hundred. Their admitted involvement as leaders of Digital
Maidan by both Chalupas is a
clear violation of the Neutrality Act and has up to a 25
year prison sentence attached to it because it ended in a coup.
Andrea Chalupa-2014, in a Huff Post article Sept. 1 2016, Andrea Chalupa described
Sviatoslav Yurash as one of Ukraine's important "dreamers." He is a young activist that
founded Euromaidan
Press . Beyond the gushing glow what she doesn't say is who he actually is. Sviatoslav
Yurash was Dmitri Yarosh's spokesman just after Maidan. He is a hardcore Ukrainian
nationalist and was rewarded with the Deputy Director
position for the UWC (Ukrainian World Congress) in Kiev .
In January, 2014 when he showed up at the Maidan protests he was 17 years old. He became the
foreign language media representative for Vitali Klitschko, Arseni Yatsenyuk, and Oleh
Tyahnybok. All press enquiries went through Yurash. To meet Dimitri Yurash you had
to go through Sviatoslav Yurash as a Macleans reporter found out.
At 18 years old, Sviatoslav Yurash became the spokesman for Ministry of Defense of Ukraine
under Andrei Paruby. He was Dimitri Yarosh's spokesman and can be seen either behind Yarosh on
videos at press conferences or speaking ahead of him to reporters. From January 2014 onward, to
speak to Dimitri Yarosh, you set up an appointment with Yurash.
Irene Chalupa- Another involved Chalupa we need to cover to do the story justice is Irene
Chalupa. From her bio – Irena
Chalupa is a nonresident fellow with the Atlantic Council's Dinu Patriciu Eurasia Center.
She is also a senior correspondent at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), where she has
worked for more than twenty years. Ms. Chalupa previously served as an editor for the
Atlantic Council, where she covered Ukraine and Eastern Europe. Irena Chalupa is also the
news anchor for Ukraine's propaganda channel org She is also a Ukrainian
emigre leader.
According to
Robert Parry's article At the forefront of people that would have taken senior positions in
a Clinton administration and especially in foreign policy are the Atlantic Council. Their main
goal is still a major confrontation with nuclear-armed Russia.
The Atlantic Council is the think tank associated and supported by the
CEEC (Central and Eastern European Coalition). The CEEC has only one goal which is war with
Russia. Their question to candidates looking for their support in the election was "Are you
willing to go to war with Russia?" Hillary Clinton has received their unqualified support
throughout the campaign.
What does any of this have to do with Dimitri Alperovitch and Crowdstrike? Since the
Atlantic Council would have taken senior cabinet and policy positions, his own fellowship
status at the Atlantic Council and relationship with Irene Chalupa creates a definite conflict
of interest for Crowdstrike's investigation. Trump's campaign was gaining ground and Clinton
needed a boost. Had she won, would he have been in charge of the CIA, NSA, or Homeland
Security?
When you put someone that has so much to gain in charge of an investigation that could
change an election, that is a conflict of interest. If the think tank is linked heavily to
groups that want war with Russia like the Atlantic Council and the CEEC, it opens up criminal
conspiracy.
If the person in charge of the investigation is a fellow at the think tank that wants a
major conflict with Russia it is a definite conflict of interest. Both the Atlantic Council and
clients stood to gain Cabinet and Policy positions based on how the result of his work affects
the election. It clouds the results of the investigation. In Dmitri Alperovitch's case, he
found the perpetrator before he was positive there was a crime.
Alperovitch's relationship with Andrea Chalupa's efforts and Ukrainian intelligence groups
is where things really heat up. Noted above she works with Euromaidanpress.com and Informnapalm.org which is the outlet
for Ukrainian state-sponsored hackers.
When you look at Dimitri Alperovitch's twitter relationships, you have to ask why the CEO of
a $150 million dollar company like Crowdstrike follows Ukrainian InformNapalm
and its hackers individually . There is a mutual relationship. When you add up his work for
the OUNb, Ukraine, support for Ukraine's Intelligence, and to the hackers it needs to be
investigated to see if Ukraine is conspiring against the US government.
Alperovitch and Fancy Bear tweet each other?
Crowdstrike is also following their hack of a Russian government official after the DNC
hack. It closely resembles the same method used with the DNC because it was an email hack.
Crowdstrike's product line includes Falcon Host, Falcon Intelligence, Falcon Overwatch and
Falcon DNS. Is it possible the hackers in Falcons Flame are another service Crowdstrike offers?
Although this profile says Virginia, tweets are from the Sofia, Bulgaria time zone and he
writes in Russian. Another curiosity considering the Fancy Bear source code is in Russian. This
image shows Crowdstrike in their network.
Crowdstrike is part of Ukrainian nationalist hacker network
In an interview with
Euromaidanpress these hackers say they have no need for the CIA. They consider the CIA
amateurish. They also say they are not part of the Ukrainian military Cyberalliance is a
quasi-organization with the participation of several groups – RUH8, Trinity, Falcon
Flames, Cyberhunta. There are structures affiliated to the hackers – the Myrotvorets
site, Informnapalm analytical agency."
In the image it shows a network diagram of Crowdstrike following the Surkov leaks. The
network communication goes through a secondary source. This is something you do when you don't
want to be too obvious. Here is another example of that.
Ukrainian Intelligence and the real Fancy Bear?
Although OSINT Academy sounds fairly innocuous, it's the official twitter account for
Ukraine's Ministry of Information head Dimitri Zolotukin. It is also Ukrainian Intelligence.
The Ministry of Information started the Peacekeeper or Myrotvorets website that geolocates
journalists and other people for assassination. If you disagree with OUNb politics, you could
be on the list.
Trying not to be obvious, the Head of Ukraine's Information Ministry (UA Intelligence)
tweeted something interesting that ties Alperovitch and Crowdstrike to the Ukrainian
Intelligence hackers and the Information Ministry even tighter.
Trying to keep it hush hush?
This single tweet on a network chart shows that out of all the Ukrainian Ministry of
Information Minister's following, he only wanted the 3 hacking groups associated with both him
and Alperovitch to get the tweet. Alperovitch's story was received and not retweeted or shared.
If this was just Alperovitch's victory, it was a victory for Ukraine. It would be shared
heavily. If it was a victory for the hacking squad, it would be smart to keep it to themselves
and not draw unwanted attention.
These same hackers are associated with Alexandra, Andrea, and Irene Chalupa through the
portals and organizations they work with through their OUNb. The hackers are funded and
directed by or through the same OUNb channels that Alperovitch is working for and with to
promote the story of Russian hacking.
Pravy Sektor Hackers and Crowdstrike?
When you look at the image for the hacking group in the euromaidanpress article, one of the
hackers identifies themselves as one of Dimitri Yarosh's Pravy Sektor members by the Pravy
Sektor sweatshirt they have on. Noted above, Pravy Sektor admitted to killing the people at the
Maidan protest and sparked the coup.
Going further with the linked Euromaidanpress article the hackers say" Let's understand that
Ukrainian hackers and Russian hackers once constituted a single very powerful group. Ukrainian
hackers have a rather high level of work. So the help of the USA I don't know, why would we
need it? We have all the talent and special means for this. And I don't think that the USA or
any NATO country would make such sharp movements in international politics."
What sharp movements in international politics have been made lately? Let me spell it out
for the 17 US Intelligence Agencies so there is no confusion. These state sponsored, Russian
language hackers in Eastern European time zones have shown with the Surkov hack they have the
tools and experience to hack states that are looking out for it. They are also laughing at US
intel efforts.
The hackers also made it clear that they will do anything to serve Ukraine. Starting a war
between Russia and the USA is the one way they could serve Ukraine best, and hurt Russia worst.
Given those facts, if the DNC hack was according to the criteria given by Alperovitch, both he
and these hackers need to be investigated.
According to the Esquire interview "Alperovitch was deeply frustrated: He thought the
government should tell the world what it knew. There is, of course, an element of the personal
in his battle cry. "A lot of people who are born here don't appreciate the freedoms we have,
the opportunities we have, because they've never had it any other way," he told me. "I
have."
While I agree patriotism is a great thing, confusing it with this kind of nationalism is
not. Alperovitch seems to think by serving OUNb Ukraine's interests and delivering a conflict
with Russia that is against American interests, he's a patriot. He isn't serving US interests.
He's definitely a Ukrainian patriot. Maybe he should move to Ukraine.
The evidence presented deserves investigation because it looks like the case for conflict of
interest is the least Dimitri Alperovitch should look forward to. If these hackers are the real
Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear, they really did make sharp movements in international politics.
By pawning it off on Russia, they made a worldwide embarrassment of an outgoing President of
the United States and made the President Elect the suspect of rumor.
From the Observer.com , " Andrea
Chalupa -- the sister of DNC
research staffer Alexandra Chalupa -- claimed on
social media, without any evidence, that despite Clinton
conceding the election to Trump, the voting results need to be audited to because
Clinton couldn't have lost -- it must have been Russia. Chalupa hysterically
tweeted to every politician on Twitter to audit the vote because of Russia and claimed the TV
show The Americans
, about two KGB spies living in America, is real."
Quite possibly now the former UK Ambassador Craig Murry's admission of being the involved
party to "leaks" should be looked at. " Now both Julian
Assange and I have stated definitively the leak does not come from Russia . Do we credibly
have access? Yes, very obviously. Very, very few people can be said to definitely have access
to the source of the leak. The people saying it is not Russia are those who do have access.
After access, you consider truthfulness. Do Julian Assange and I have a reputation for
truthfulness? Well in 10 years not one of the tens of thousands of documents WikiLeaks has
released has had its authenticity successfully challenged. As for me, I have a reputation for
inconvenient truth telling."
"Foreign agents introduced Ukranian politician to US political figures in secretive
lobbying arrangement" [
OpenSecrets ]. "Foreign agents and lobbyists accused of orchestrating a disinformation
campaign attacking former Ukrainian Prime Minister and 2019 presidential candidate Yulia
Tymoshenko actually introduced her to key U.S. political players last year, an investigation
by the Center for Responsive Responsive Politics has found. New FARA records reveal foreign
agents and lobbyists on the payroll of Livingston Group, a lobbying firm run by former Rep.
Bob Livingston (R-La.), played a previously unreported role in Tymoshenko's meetings with
lawmakers during a December 2018 trip to Washington, D.C., including House Intelligence
Committee chairman Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) and Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.)." • Mostly
Republicans, to be sure, but Schiff's presence is interesting. UkraineGate. SaudiGate.
UAEGate .
"... Breaking news today, courtesy of the New York Times , is that a man with a long history of working with the CIA and a female FBI Informant, traveled to London in September of 2016 and tried unsuccessfully to entrap George Papadopolous. The biggest curiosity is that US intelligence or law enforcement officials fully briefed British intelligence on what they were up to. ..."
"... The FBI disingenuously claims they ran Azra Turk at Papadopolous because they were alarmed ostensibly by Russia's attempts to disrupt the 2016 election. But Papadopolous was not seeking out Russian contacts. He was being baited. It was Mifsud and others tied to British and US intelligence who were bringing up the "opportunity" to work with the Russians. ..."
"... The boomerang from the Democratic Party's failed attempt to connect Donald Trump to Russia's 2016 election meddling is picking up speed, and its flight path crosses right through Moscow's pesky neighbor, Ukraine. That is where there is growing evidence a foreign power was asked, and in some cases tried, to help Hillary Clinton . ..."
"... In written answers to questions, Ambassador Valeriy Chaly's office says DNC contractor Alexandra Chalupa sought information from the Ukrainian government on Paul Manafort 's dealings inside the country, in hopes of forcing the issue before Congress. ..."
"... It's not just the left. I listened to Michael Tracey's interview with George Papadopoulos and was stunned to learn about the web of Deep State actors and how our Five Eyes allies were intimately involved in subverting our Presidential election. Papadopoulos even talks about U.S. military attachés, DIA guys, in on this coup. Listen to this Michael Tracey* interview and you will be shaken: https://youtu.be/ZjGLCCP_lPg ..."
"... Neoliberals and neoconservatives (ie zionists) were behind it and continue to push it. Trump ran to the left of Clinton on both domestic and foreign policy. That's why he won, and why the establishment must present his election as de facto illegitimate, because otherwise they would be forced to admit that the bipartisan convergence around both finance driven economic policy and war on terror interventionism that has described elite politics since Clinton has been a disaster for most ordinary Americans -- of all types and political persuasions -- and needs to be destroyed root and branch. ..."
"... What's the likelihood that Carter Page was a plant in the Trump campaign? After all, he had a history with the US IC and was used as bait in an FBI case to prove Russian operatives' recruiting efforts. It's thought he's the Under Cover Employee alluded to in this case, which resulted in the successful prosecution of Russian spies: ..."
"... Here's a National Review exclusive report in which a transcript of FBI's Deputy Assistant Director Jonathan Moffa's testimony reveals several Confidential Human Sources (including Christopher Steele), and more interestingly foreign "liasons" (Mifsud?) were employed by the bureau in this operation: ..."
Intel and Law Enforcement Tried to Entrap Trump by Larry C Johnson
The preponderance of evidence makes this very simple--there was a broad, coordinated effort
by the Obama Administration, with the help of foreign governments, to target Donald Trump and
paint him as a stooge of Russia.
The Mueller Report provides irrefutable evidence that the so-called Russian collusion case
against Donald Trump was a deliberate fabrication by intelligence and law enforcement
organizations in the United States and the United Kingdom and organizations aligned with the
Clinton Campaign.
Breaking news today, courtesy
of the New York Times, is that a man with a long history of working with the CIA and a
female FBI Informant, traveled to London in September of 2016 and tried unsuccessfully to
entrap George Papadopolous. The biggest curiosity is that US intelligence or law enforcement
officials fully briefed British intelligence on what they were up to. Quite understandable
given what we now know about British spying on the Trump Campaign.
The Mueller investigation of Trump "collusion" with Russia prior to the 2016 Presidential
election focused on eight cases:
Proposed Trump Tower Project in Moscow
George Papadopolous --
Carter Page --
Dimitri Simes --
Veselnetskya Meeting at Trump Tower (June 16, 2016)
Events at Republican Convention
Post-Convention Contacts with Russian Ambassador Kislyak
Paul Manafort
One simple fact emerges--of the eight cases or incidents of alleged Trump Campaign
interaction with the Russians investigated by the Mueller team, the proposals to interact with
the Russian Government or Putin originated with FBI informants, MI-6 assets or people paid by
Fusion GPS, not Trump or his people. There is not a single instance where Donald Trump or any
member of his campaign team initiated contact with the Russians for the purpose of gaining
derogatory information on Hillary or obtaining support to boost the Trump campaign. Not
one.
Simply put, Trump and his campaign were the target of an elaborate, wide ranging covert
action designed to entrap him and members of his team as an agent of Russia.
Let's look in detail at each of the cases.
THE PROPOSED TRUMP TOWER PROJECT IN MOSCOW, according to Mueller's report, originated with an FBI Informant--Felix Sater.
Here's what the Mueller Report states:
In the late summer of 2015, the Trump Organization received a new inquiry about pursuing a
Trump Tower project in Moscow. In approximately September 2015, Felix Sater . . . contacted
Cohen (i.e., Michael Cohen) on behalf of I.C. Expert Investment Company (I.C. Expert), a
Russian real-estate development corporation controlled by Andrei Vladimirovich Rozov.
Sater had
known Rozov since approximately 2007 and, in 2014, had served as an agent on behalf of Rozov
during Rozov's purchase of a building in New York City. Sater later contacted Rozov and
proposed that I.C. Expert pursue a Trump Tower Moscow project in which I.C. Expert would
license the name and brand from the Trump Organization but construct the building on its own.
Sater worked on the deal with Rozov and another employee of I.C. Expert. (see page 69 of the
Mueller Report).
Mueller,
as I have noted previously , is downright dishonest in failing to identify Sater as an FBI
informant. Sater was not just a private entrepreneur looking to make some coin. He was a fully
signed up FBI informant. Sater's status as an FBI snitch was first exposed in 2012. Sater also
was a boyhood chum of Michael Cohen, the target being baited in this operation. Another
inconvenient fact excluded from the Mueller report is that one of Mueller's Chief Prosecutors,
Andrew
Weissman, signed the deal with Felix Sater in December 1998 that put Sater into the FBI
Informant business .
All suggestions for meeting with the Russian Government, including Putin, originated with
Felix Sater. The use of Sater on this particular project started in September 2015.
Papadopolous was targeted by British and U.S. intelligence starting in late December 2015,
when he is offered out of the blue a job with the
London Centre of International
Law and Practice Limited (LCILP) . The LCILP has all of the hallmarks of an
intelligence front company. LCILP began as an offshoot from another company -- EN
Education Group Limited -- which describes itself as "a global education
consultancy, facilitating links between students, education providers and organisations with an
interest in education worldwide".
EN Education and LCILP are owned and run by Nagi Khalid Idris, a 48-year-old British citizen
of Sudanese origin. For no apparent reason Idris offers Papadopolous a job as the Director of
the LCILP's International Energy and Natural Resources Division. Then in March of 2016, Idris
and Arvinder Sambei (who acted as an attorney for the FBI on a 9-11 extradition case in the
UK), insist on introducing Joseph Mifsud to Papadopolous.
It is Joseph Mifsud who introduces the idea of meeting Putin following a lunch in
London:
"The lunch is booked for March 24 at the Grange Holborn Hotel,. . . . "When I get there,
Mifsud is waiting for me in the lobby with an attractive, fashionably dressed young woman with
dirty blonde hair at his side. He introduces her as Olga Vinogradova." (p. 76)
"Mifsud sells her hard. "Olga is going to be your inside woman to Moscow. She knows
everyone." He tells me she was a former official at the Russian Ministry of Trade. Then he
waxes on about introducing me to the Russian ambassador in London." (p. 77)
"On April 12, "Olga" writes: "I have already alerted my personal links to our conversation
and your request. The embassy in London is very much aware of this. As mentioned, we are all
very excited by the possibility of a good relationship with Mr. Trump. The Russian Federation
would love to welcome him once his candidature would be officially announced."
And it is Mifsud who raises the possibility of getting dirt on Hillary:
"Then Mifsud returns from the Valdai conference. On April 26 we meet for breakfast at the
Andaz Hotel, near Liverpool Street Station, one of the busiest train stations in London. He's
in an excellent mood and claims he met with high-level Russian government officials. But once
again, he's very short on specifics. This is becoming a real pattern with Mifsud. He hasn't
offered any names besides Timofeev. Then, he leans across the table in a conspiratorial manner.
The Russians have "dirt" on Hillary Clinton, he tells me. "Emails of Clinton," he says. "They
have thousands of emails."
Here again we encounter the lying and obfuscation of the Mueller team. They falsely
characterize Mifsud as an agent of Russia. In fact, he has close and longstanding ties to both
British and US intelligence (
Disobedient Media lays out the Mifsud mystery in detail ).
Mifsud was not alone. The FBI and the CIA also were in the game of trying to entrap
Papadopolous. In September of 2016, Papadopolous was being wined and dined by Halper (who has
longstanding ties to the US intelligence community) and Azra Turk, an FBI Informant/researcher
( see NY
Times ).
The FBI disingenuously claims they ran Azra Turk at Papadopolous because they were alarmed
ostensibly by Russia's attempts to disrupt the 2016 election. But Papadopolous was not seeking
out Russian contacts. He was being baited. It was Mifsud and others tied to British and US
intelligence who were bringing up the "opportunity" to work with the Russians.
CARTER PAGE
The section of the Mueller report that deals with Carter Page is a total travesty. Mueller
and his team, for example, initially misrepresent Page's status with the Trump campaign--he is
described as "working" for the campaign, which implies a paid position, when he was in fact
only a volunteer foreign policy advisor. Mueller also paints Page's prior experience and work
in Russia as evidence that Page was being used by Russian intelligence, but says nothing about
the fact that Page was being regularly debriefed by the CIA and the FBI during the same period.
In other words, Page was cooperating with US intelligence and law enforcement. But this fact is
omitted in the Mueller report.
Mueller eventually accurately describes Page's role in the Trump campaign as follows:
In January 2016, Page began volunteering on an informal, unpaid basis for the Trump Campaign
after Ed Cox, a state Republican Party official, introduced Page to Trump Campaign officials.
Page told the Office that his goal in working on the Campaign was to help candidate Trump
improve relations with Russia. To that end, Page emailed Campaign officials offering his
thoughts on U.S.-Russia relations, prepared talking points and briefing memos on Russia, and
proposed that candidate Trump meet with President Vladimir Putin in Moscow.
In communications with Campaign officials, Page also repeatedly touted his high-level
contacts in Russia and his ability to forge connections between candidate Trump and senior
Russian governmental officials. For example, on January 30, 2016, Page sent an email to senior
Campaign officials stating that he had "spent the past week in Europe and had been in
discussions with some individuals with close ties to the Kremlin" who recognized that Trump
could have a "game-changing effect . .. in bringing the end of the new Cold War. The email
stated that " [t]hrough [his] discussions with these high level contacts," Page believed that
"a direct meeting in Moscow between Mr. Trump and Putin could be arranged.
The Mueller presentation portrays Carter Page in a nefarious, negative light. His contacts
with Russia are characterized as inappropriate and unjustified. Longstanding business
experience in a particular country is not proof of wrong doing. No consideration is given at
all to Page's legitimate concerns raising about the dismal state of US/Russia relations
following the US backed coup in the Ukraine and the subsequent annexation of Crimea by
Russia.
Page's association with the Trump campaign was quite brief--he lasted seven months, being
removed as a foreign policy advisor on 24 September. Page was not identified publicly as a
Trump foreign policy advisor until March of 2016, but the evidence presented in the Mueller
report clearly indicates that Page was already a target of intelligence agencies, in the US and
abroad, long before the FISA warrant of October 2016.
While serving on the foreign policy team Page continued his business and social contacts in
Russia, but was never tasked by the Trump team to pursue or promote contacts with Putin and his
team. In fact, Page's proposals, suggestions and recommendations were either ignored or
directly rebuffed.
The timeline reported in the Mueller report regarding Page's trip to Russia in early July
raises questions about the intel collected on that trip and the so-called "intel" revealed in
the Steele Dossier with respect to Page. Carter admits to meeting with individuals, such as
Dmitry Peskov and Igor Sechin, who appear in the Steele Dossier. Page's meetings in Moscow
turned out to be innocuous and uneventful. Nothing he did resembled clandestine activity. Yet,
the Steele report on that visit suggested just the opposite and used the tactic of guilt by
association to imply that Page was up to something dirty.
The bottomline for Mueller is that Page did not do anything wrong and no one in the Trump
Campaign embraced his proposals for closer ties with Russia.
DMITRI SIMES
The targeting and investigation of Dmitri Simes is disgusting and an abuse of law
enforcement authority. Full disclosure. I know Dmitri. For awhile, in the 2002-2003 time
period, I was a regular participant at Nixon Center events. For example, I was at a round table
in December 2002 on the imminent invasion of Iraq. Colonel Pat Lang sat on one side of me and
Ambassador Joe Wilson on the other. Directly across the table was Charles Krauthammer. Dmitri
ran an honest seminar.
The entire section on Dmitri Simes, under other circumstances, could be viewed as something
bizarre and amusing. But the mere idea that Simes was somehow an agent of Putin and a vehicle
for helping Trump work with the Russians to steal the 2016 election is crazy and idiotic. Those
in the FBI who were so stupid as to buy into this nonsense should have their badges and guns
taken away. They are too dumb to work in law enforcement.
Dmitri's only sin was to speak calmly, intelligently and rationally about foreign policy
dealings with Russia. We now know that in this new hysteria of the 21st Century Russian scare
that qualities such as reason and rationality are proof of one's willingness to act as a puppet
of Vladimir Putin.
TRUMP TOWER MEETING (JUNE 9, 2016)
This is the clearest example of a plant designed to entrap the Trump team. Mueller, once
again, presents a very disingenuous account:
On June 9, 2016, senior representatives of the Trump Campaign met in Trump Tower with a
Russian attorney expecting to receive derogatory information about Hillary Clinton from the
Russian government. The meeting was proposed to Donald Trump Jr. in an email from Robert
Goldstone, at the request of his then-client Emin Agalarov, the son of Russian real-estate
developer Aras Agalarov. Goldstone relayed to Trump Jr. that the "Crown prosecutor of Russia
... offered to provide the Trump Campaign with some official documents and information that
would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia" as "part of Russia and its government's
support for Mr. Trump." Trump Jr. immediately responded that "if it's what you say I love it,"
and arranged the meeting through a series of emails and telephone calls.
The meeting was with a Russian attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya.
The Russian attorney who spoke at the meeting, Natalia Veselnitskaya, had previously worked
for the Russian government and maintained a relationship with that government throughout this
period oftime. She claimed that funds derived from illegal activities in Russia were provided
to Hillary Clinton and other Democrats. Trump Jr. requested evidence to support those claims,
but Veselnitskaya did not provide such information.
Ignore for a moment that no information on Hillary was passed or provided (and doing such a
thing is not illegal). The real problem is with what Mueller does not say and did not
investigate. Mueller conveniently declines to mention the fact that Veselnitskaya was working
closely with the firm Hillary Clinton hired to produce the Steele Dossier. NBC News reported on
Veselnitskaya:
The information that a Russian lawyer brought with her when she met Donald Trump Jr. in June
2016 stemmed from research conducted by Fusion GPS, the same firm that compiled the infamous
Trump dossier, according to the lawyer and a source familiar with the matter.
In an interview with NBC News, Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya says she first received
the supposedly incriminating information she brought to Trump Tower -- describing alleged tax
evasion and donations to Democrats -- from Glenn Simpson , the Fusion GPS owner, who had been
hired to conduct research in a New York federal court case.
Even a mediocre investigator
would recognize the problem of the relationship between the lawyer claiming to have dirty,
damning info on Hillary with the firm Hillary hired to dig up dirt on Donald Trump. This was
another botched set up and the Trump folks did not take the bait.
EVENTS AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION
This portion of the Mueller report is complete farce. Foreign Ambassdors, including the
Russian (and the Chinese) attend Republican and Democrat Conventions. Presidential candidates
and their advisors speak to those Ambassadors. So, where is the beef? Answer. There isn't any.
That this "event" was considered something worthy of a counter intelligence investigation is
just one more piece of evidence that law enforcement and intelligence were weaponized against
the Trump campaign.
POST-CONVENTION CONTACTS WITH RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR KISLYAK
Ditto. As noted in the previous paragraph, trying to criminalize normal diplomatic contacts,
especially with a country where we share important, vital national security interests, is but
further evidence of the crazy anti-Russian hysteria that has infected the anti-Trumpers.
Pathetic.
MANAFORT
If Paul Manafort had rebuffed Trump's offer to run his campaign, he would be walking free
today and still buying expensive suits and evading taxes along with his Clinton buddy, Greg
Craig. Instead, he became another target for DOJ and intel community and the DNC, which were
desperate to portray Trump as a tool of the Kremlin. Thanks to John Solomon of The Hill, we now
know the impetus to target
Manafort came from the DNC :
The boomerang from the Democratic Party's failed attempt to connect
Donald Trump to Russia's 2016 election meddling
is picking up speed, and its flight path crosses right through Moscow's pesky neighbor,
Ukraine. That is where there is growing evidence a foreign power was asked, and in some cases
tried, to help Hillary
Clinton .
In its most detailed account yet, Ukraine's embassy in Washington says a Democratic National
Committee insider during the 2016 election solicited dirt on Donald Trump's campaign chairman
and even tried to enlist the country's president to help.
In written answers to questions, Ambassador Valeriy Chaly's office says DNC contractor
Alexandra Chalupa sought information from the Ukrainian government on
Paul Manafort 's dealings inside the country, in
hopes of forcing the issue before Congress.
Manafort was not colluding, but the Clinton campaign and the Obama Administration most
certainly were.
Take these eight events as a whole a very clear picture emerges--US and foreign intelligence
(especially the UK) and US law enforcement collaborated in a broad effort to bait the Trump
team with ostensible Russian entreaties in order to paint Trump as a tool of the Kremlin. That
effort is now being exposed and those culpable will hopefully face justice. This should sicken
and alarm every American regardless of political party. Will justice be served?
I just read the following about special visas approved for some of the FBI "operatives"
(from SD at CTH): "It wasn't just the CIA that was using spies to "dirty up" Trump
associates. The FBI was doing it too. There was the infamous Natalia Veselnitskaya who is
known for her part in the Trump Tower meeting. She had been banned from the country but got a
special visa signed off by Preet Bahara of the FBI, Southern District of New York. Henry
Greenburg, the known FBI informant who tried to entrap Roger Stone, also got a special visa.
And I'm sure there are many more "
IMO, there is no coming back from this. Apart from this Deep State coup attempt, we have seen
that democracy is a shame, it's all theater. The Establishment (which includes GOP) is
constantly working to undermine Trump and thwart his plans to do what the American people
want and elected him for. What I've found quite disturbing is that the controlling puppet
masters have not let up in trying to remove or neutralize Trump. As if they can't wait even 4
years to again fully stack the deck and regain total control. They are not willing to concede
that 2016 was a political black swan event involving a celebrity billionaire American icon.
And conceding and allowing this fluke to be rectified I'm 4 short years is worse than their
pushback exposing the political system as a rigged game.
The events of the last 2.5 years have radically altered my views. I no longer have any
faith in democracy (voting), the government, the federal courts, law enforcement, et al. And
I can't see me regaining any faith in them. What I have seen in the past 2.5 years is kind of
like finding out my wife of decades, whom I idolized, has been cheating with my friend from
childhood, whom I would've laid down my life for. And all the other people close to me not
telling me.
It's not just the left. I listened to Michael Tracey's interview with George Papadopoulos and
was stunned to learn about the web of Deep State actors and how our Five Eyes allies were
intimately involved in subverting our Presidential election. Papadopoulos even talks about
U.S. military attachés, DIA guys, in on this coup. Listen to this Michael Tracey*
interview and you will be shaken: https://youtu.be/ZjGLCCP_lPg
*Tracey, btw, is on the left. But like Glenn Greenwald and others on the left he is an
honest journalist interested in the truth.
The "left" was not behind and does not buy into this Russia psyop. Neoliberals and
neoconservatives (ie zionists) were behind it and continue to push it. Trump ran to the left
of Clinton on both domestic and foreign policy. That's why he won, and why the establishment
must present his election as de facto illegitimate, because otherwise they would be forced to
admit that the bipartisan convergence around both finance driven economic policy and war on
terror interventionism that has described elite politics since Clinton has been a disaster
for most ordinary Americans -- of all types and political persuasions -- and needs to be
destroyed root and branch.
To see how and why the "left" differs from corporate identity-politicking liberals in the
above regard consider how it is that Tulsi Gabbard is both the Dem candidate most respected
by principled Trump supporters on this site and others and the Dem candidate most reviled,
ignored, and slandered by DNC liberals and neocons alike.
The enemy to principled conservatives and the left in this country is the bipartisan
establishment corporate neoliberalism of the RNC and DNC alike.
What's the likelihood that Carter Page was a plant in the Trump campaign? After all, he had a
history with the US IC and was used as bait in an FBI case to prove Russian operatives'
recruiting efforts. It's thought he's the Under Cover Employee alluded to in this case, which
resulted in the successful prosecution of Russian spies:
Page is just a goofball grifter. He's not a plant. That is silly. When they saw names like
Page and Manafort the Democrats pounced because they knew the could cast aspersions.
I'm not sure about Mifsud. I think it would be hard for Mueller to knowingly indict
Papadop if Mifsud were an asset of the US (or even known to be an asset of allies). I think
it is more likely Mifsud was a free agent.
All these guys Mifsud, Page, Papadop were grifters, not doing real work. Just running
around trying to make a buck by claiming to facilitate meetings. It's a shame it bit them and
not a crime to do what they did. At the same time, I can't help but see some kharmic justice.
GET A JOB, you poly sci lightweights!
This anonymous commentator has never spent time in senior levels of business or government.
There is a whole class of people who do not see themselves as Grifters but more as "ideas
men".
The best offer valuable perspectives on the world, can really open doors and otherwise add
value. At the other end of the spectrum are con men. Political campaigns and large
corporations of any sort attract these people in droves. The skill in management is to sort
the wheat from the chaff. Trump is good at that.
Yes, Page often comes off as a bit crazy and incoherent. But he may be crazy like a fox. In
the end he was never charged with ANYTHING and it's my understanding he represented himself
legally throughout the investigation, opting not to hire counsel. I find it odd that others
were prosecuted for process crimes but he escaped even THAT fate.
His participation in the Trump campaign, limited as it was, was nevertheless KEY in
finally obtaining a FISA warrant after other attempts failed.
Consider it silly if you want. I view him at least worthy of suspicion. His hapless
demeanor could be his schtick , when his education, experience and IC connections are
taken into consideration.
Page represents himself poorly even when he knows a lot is on the line. Look at how
frustrated Gowdy got with him. Clearly Page didn't learn much from plebe year in terms of 5
basic responses. Compare the difference with Barr for instance.
While the Trident program is a big deal, every now and then USNA has mids that are
diligent about getting good grades but not very smart. I knew one my year. Page is clearly in
that vein. Don't miss that he didn't get into any elite program after graduation (SWO is the
default). And that he was a poly sci major. The saying is "poly sci, QPR high" (QPR is
quality point rating or GPA). Of course this is not to say there aren't some good SWOs or
poly sci majors. But there's a definite correlation I'm noting. It fits with what his
reputation is.
Furthermore, the guy has had an uneventful career, bouncing around. He went to a lower
bulge bracket (not Goldman) and didn't seem to stick. And his Russian colleagues said he was
an idiot and a boaster. We're not talking i-banker smart. Wouldn't trust him to do an NPV or
other economic analysis. And then after that we have the grifting and the shmoozing.
Kid is a lightweight. A slightly less coffee-boy coffee boy.
''They cannot convict based on a law that was passed after the act was committed''
Money laundering has always been against the law of course....the NY law just firmed up
the due diligence that is suppose to be done in transactions. I don't think there is a statute of limitations on things like
fraud, tax evasion and money laundering but I will check it out to see
Catherine, in current PC thinking, merely passing the salt to a Russian guest at a dinner
party makes you "an unregistered foreign agent" of Russia bent on implementing Putin's evil
plans.
As for certifying real estate deals, the same crowd would view buying someone a MacDonalds
hamburger as attempted bribery.
''As for certifying real estate deals, the same crowd would view buying someone a MacDonalds
hamburger as attempted bribery.''
Hardly. 7 million dollar cash deals for a condo thru a shell company is a red flag
however..as is buying property for 1 million and selling it unimproved the next year for 2
million...or buying a house in LA 11 million and selling it 9 months later for 8 million.
That 'in between money" is someone's pay off....that's how it works.
Money laundering is epidemic in the US and Europe....Israeli mafia, Russian oligarchs,
African dictators looting their country's treasury and running it through a real estate
washing machine deal. Far be from me to sweep the fairy dust out of Trump supporters eyes but, as I said,
Trump's troubles are far from over. We will see what comes out in the future.
The soft coup against Donald Trump failed. He has to run hard and sure to win in 2020 to
avoid an indictment in NY State when he leaves the Presidency. Corporate Democrats will do
their damnedst again to put forth their weakest pro war candidate like the aged, apparently
demented, Joe Biden. This fiasco and the recent coup attempt in Venezuela make the Keystone
Cops appear competent.
I put this all down to Washington DC being completely isolated inside their credentialed
bubble. It is just like corporate CEOs, who think they know exactly what they are doing. But,
in reality, they are destroying the stabilizing middle class by extracting and hording wealth
and turning mid-America into their colony. Globalist and nationalist oligarchs are after each
other's throat over who controls the flow of money.
We live on a very finite world dependent on one sun in an expanding universe. Just like
Boeing, Bayer or Volkswagen, the splintering world is starting to crash all around them. Even
as they deny it, this is a multi-polar world now. It is not going back without a world war
which would destroy civilization and could make the world uninhabitable for humans.
And the best that our government can do is warn us not to wash our chicken before cooking it
because washing merely spreads the salmonella that our food industry is unable to prevent
from infecting it.
The trouble is that those CEO's do know exactly what they are doing. Making money the
only way possible in a business environment in which outsourcing can sometimes be the only
thing that pays.
The idea was that Trump was going to change that environment. Bannon calls its "economic
nationalism" but in truth it's now just economic survival. Survival for those whose jobs are
outsourced. Survival for the country as a whole, ultimately. That was Trump's core programme. It was the programme that made him different from all
other Western politicians, "populist" or status quo. Do you see any sign that it's being
implemented, or has that programme too got bogged down in the swamp?
If we are speaking about criminal justice, there is some chance that we will see persons such
as Jim Comey, who persists in his smug higher calling act, prosecuted for what was a clear
cut violation in divulging classified material through a lawyer intermediary to the NYT. I
suspect the higher calling bit has been prompted in part because he knows that he screwed up
both on the facts and in law and he is justifying his screw up to himself, and possibly also
rehearsing his defense, with the rationale that he was only trying to do the right thing.
Yeah, he may have had the facts all wrong, the Russians, etc, etc, but the worst that can be
said is that he had been competent, there was no intent. That defense doesn't do much for the
FBI's once held reputation for competence, but that appears to be gone anyway.
With regard to what will be turned up concerning the actual roots of the travesty, the
heavily politicized faux investigation into the Clinton e mails and targeting of the Trump
campaign on a predicate that is somewhere between nebulous and non existant, I think a
criminal prosecution arising from that investigation, even if it is serious, is unlikely for
two main reasons. First, what will be the charged violations? As best I can see right now,
they will have to entail some imaginative application of fraud statutes, defrauding the FISC,
defrauding the US, informants and assets lying to their handlers, or process crimes like Bob
Mueller's partisan posse relied upon (ugly); and second, something like the Comey defense
will interpenetrate all the individuals and entities involved: we may have been incredible
bunglers, but that is the worst of it. We really believed these charlatans who conned us into
this debacle. Sorry, but we thought we were doing the right thing.
Now if we are talking about seeing some kind of political or moral justice, I'm not too
optimistic we will get much satisfaction there either and we will probably have to wait for
history. The reason is that Barr will conduct this investigation by the rule book. That means
that what we see developed through the process, indictment, prosecution, etc, is likely
all,that we will ever see. Barr is very unlikely to produce a politcized manifesto to be
employed as a smear weapon like the once reputable Mueller did.
Anyway, until we see a special FGJ empanelled, some search warrants executed, some tactical
immunities offered, everything is on the come.
What probability do you assign that any top official will be indicted and prosecuted? I
mean Brennan, Clapper, Comey & Lynch.
Second, what probability do you assign that Trump will declassify the relevant documents
and communications like the FISA application,the originating EC, the tasking orders for
FBI/CIA spying, etc.
The question really comes down to Trump. Does he really want to expose the Swamp and pay
the price or just use it for rhetorical & political purposes? When considering
probabilities and looking at his track record in office on foreign policy relative to his
campaign stance, I would say the probability is less than 30% that Brennan & Clapper will
be indicted.
The question is only very partly what Trump wants, in some abstract sense. Situations like
this commonly have a strong escalatory logic. So one needs to ask whether or not he has
rational reason to believe that unless he can destroy those who have shown themselves
prepared to stop at nothing to destroy him, they will eventually succeed.
If the answer is yes - and while I think it may very well be, I am not prejudging the
issue - then a key question becomes whether Trump will conclude that his most promising
loption is to go after the conspirators by every means possible.
Involved here are questions about who he is listening to, and how competent they are.
But the escalatory processes are not simply to do with what Trump decides. In particular,
a whole range of legal proceedings are involved. The referral in relation to Nellie Ohr is
likely to be the fist of a good few. In addition, Ed Butowsky's lawsuits, and those against
Steele, have unpredictable potentialities.
The intelligence & law enforcement apparatus in collusion with the media and the
establishment of both parties went after him hard. As Larry notes here, they went to
considerable effort to entrap those related to his campaign to impugn him. Mueller spent $35
million trying to find an angle. Even after the Mueller report stated there was no collusion
they're sill after him. So that's not going to end any time soon.
Trump may have good instincts but his judgment of people so far to staff his
administration is not very inspiring. He had Jeff Sessions as his AG and he let him hang in
there for nearly two years while Mueller ran riot. He's surrounded himself with neocons on
foreign policy. It seems his only real advisor is Jared. Everyone else he's got around him
are from the same establishment that's going after him. He hasn't taken advise from Devin
Nunes, who has done more to uncover the sedition than anyone else. If he had he would have by
now declassified all the documents & communications. The impression I have is his primary
motivation is building his brand & less about governance and wielding power. Take for
example his order to withdraw from Syria. Bolton & the Pentagon are thumbing their noses
at him.
Well, there have been several criminal referrals prior to the recent one on Nellie Ohr.
There's the McCabe referral and the 8 referrals by Devin Nunes. I've not read any report of
the empaneling of a grand jury yet. I agree with you that these law suits have the potential
for great embarrassment, however to hold those responsible for the sedition accountable will
require iron will & intense focus on the part of Trump to get his AG to assign
prosecutors who don't have the axe to "protect" the "institution" and to create an
opportunity for public awareness of the extent that law enforcement & intelligence became
a 4th branch of government. My opinion is that his skill is in his instinctual understanding
of the current political zeitgeist and his ability to manipulate the media including social
media to project his brand. He's not an operational leader making sure his team executes his
vision & strategy.
Here's a National Review exclusive report in which a transcript of FBI's Deputy
Assistant Director Jonathan Moffa's testimony reveals several Confidential Human Sources
(including Christopher Steele), and more interestingly foreign "liasons" (Mifsud?) were
employed by the bureau in this operation:
This was clearly an attempt to entrap Trump in connections to Russia and fuel anti-Russian hysteria and defense spending. Both goals
were accomplished under Trump without much resistance. Still Russiagate persists. Why?
Notable quotes:
"... 05/03/16 Email from DNC contractor Ali Chalupa states she connected Michael Isikoff of Yahoo News "to the Ukrainians" DNC https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/3962 ..."
"... 05/15/16 Crowdstrike claims it investigated DNC hacking and that Russians were responsible; FBI still denied access to server to confirm Crowdstrike https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/ ..."
03/06/16 Former Hillary State Dept. representative George Papadopoulos learns he will join Trump campaign as a low-level
foreign policy adviser DOJ
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download
A foreign intelligence asset was used to justify surveillance of Trump[ and some of his associates
Notable quotes:
"... What is clear from the new records is that Christopher Steele, a foreign intelligence officer, had frequent and extensive contacts with the FBI. Who was his FBI Case Agent? ..."
"... The main thing I want to know is WHEN was the decision made to tar Trump with Russia - both at the FBI (and likely CIA) and at the DNC (over the leak) - and WHO was the deciding entity - Comey, Brennan, Clinton, Obama or someone else? And perhaps who came up with the idea in the first place (at the DNC, it was very likely Alexandra Chalupa, the Ukrainian-American DNC "consultant"). ..."
"... The bad thing is that our MSM is so reverent of our Intel agencies that I see them encouraged to increasingly put their hand on the scale. ..."
"... Recently, I saw arm flailing by a Congressman, Dan Coats, and Mueller about how the Russians are still at it. They are trying to disrupt or influence the 2018. Really, then I demand to get a list of the pro-Kremlin candidates. How long before the mere threat of being outed as a Kremlin agent is used to punish elected officials if they are not sufficiently hawkish or don't support certain programs. Unchallenged claims by Intel agencies gives them a lot of political power. ..."
"... I am skeptical. Russia has a lot of fish to fry, why would they expend resources on midterm elections. Now everyone in the U.S. hates them, both traditional hawk Republicans and born again uber-hawk Democrats. There is a tiger behind both doors. ..."
"... if Steele had been a CHS since at least February of 2016, what was the purpose of passing the Dossier to the FBI through Fusion GPS? Why not just going to his FBI handler? Was Steele collaboration with Fusion even in compliance with FBI regulations? Did the FBI know? ..."
"... Because part of the plan was to leak the information in order to damage Trump. FBI could not do that. Would have exposed them to some real legal jeopardy. This was a dual track strategy. Diabolical almost. ..."
"... Don't forget the Nellie Ohr (Fusion GPS) -> Bruce Ohr (DOJ) back channel. The husband & wife tag team. Yes, the same Nellie that was investigating using ham radio to communicate to avoid NSA mass surveillance. ..."
"... From the very beginning that information about all this was slowly leaking from the Congressional investigation, this whole thing smelled very fishy. Then add intense effort at DOJ & FBI to obstruct and obfuscate. And the unhinged tweets and interviews by Brennan, Clapper & Comey. ..."
"... He was working with FBI and GPS at the same time. GPS was in the dark supposedly about his work with the FBI and Steele got their approval to hand over what he had delivered to GPS to the FBI as a cover for his work with the FBI. ..."
"... its also likely FBI had some input into the content of what was delivered to GPS, and more importantly what was not delivered. ..."
"... Re the 'standing agreement to not recruit each other's intelligence personnel for clandestine activities.' As Steele was not by this time a current employee of MI6, was the FBI in technical violation of this? ..."
"... A central question in regard to Steele, as with quite a number of former intelligence/law enforcement/military people who have started at least ostensibly private sector operations, is how far these are being used as 'cover' for activities conducted on behalf of either the state agencies for which they used to work, or other state agencies. ..."
"... It is at least possible that one advantage of such arrangements may be that they make it possible to evade the letter of agreements between intelligence agencies in different countries ..."
"... If, as seems likely, both current and former top FBI and DOJ people – very likely Mueller as well as Comey, Strzok and many others – were intimately involved in the conspiracy to subvert the constitution, then a means of making it possible for Steele to combine feeding information to the FBI while also engaging in 'StratCom' via the MSM could have been necessary. ..."
"... An obvious means of 'squaring the circle' would have been to issue a formal 'termination' to Steele, while creating 'back channels' to those who were officially supposed not to be talking to him ..."
"... A report yesterday by John Solomon in 'The Hill' quotes from messages exchanged between Steele and Bruce Ohr after the supposed termination ..."
"... 'In all, Ohr's notes, emails and texts identify more than 60 contacts with Steele and/or Simpson, some dating to 2002 in London. But the vast majority occurred during the 2016-2017 timeframe that gave birth to one of the most controversial counterintelligence probes in American history.' ..."
"... I have just finished taking a fresh look at Sir Robert Owen's travesty of a report into the death of Litvinenko. In large measure, this develops claims originally made in Christopher Steele's first attempt to provide a convincing account of why figures close to Putin might have thought it made sense to assassinate that figure, and to do so with polonium. The sheer volume of fabrication which has been deployed in an attempt to defend the patently indefensible almost beggars belief. ..."
"... Just as a question arises as to whether Steele is essentially acting on behalf of MI6, a question also arises as to whether the FBI leadership were knowledgeable about, and possibly involved with, the various shenanigans in which Shvets and Levinson were involved. Given that claims about Mogilevich have turned out to be central to 'Russiagate', that seems a rather important issue, and I am curious as to whether Ohr's communications with Steele may cast any light on it. ..."
"... Apparently the FBI got Deripaksa to fund the rescue of Levinson from Iran. Furthermore apparently FBI personnel maybe including McCabe visited with Deripaksa and showed him the Steele dossier. He supposedly had a nice guffaw and dismissed it as nonsense. So on the one hand while they make Russia out to be the most evil they play footsie with Russian oligarchs. ..."
"... Thinking about "Christopher Steele was terminated as a Confidential Human Source for cause.", something that doesn't seem to have gotten as much attention is that Peter Strzok failed his poly: ..."
"... Steele's relationship with the FBI extends far further back than February 2016. Shortly after he left MI6, he contracted with the Football Association to investigate possible FIFA corruption. Once he realized the massiveness of this corruption he contacted his old friends at the FBI Eurasian Crimes Task Force in 2011. Thus began his association with the FBI as a CHS. That investigation culminated in the 2015 FIFA corruption indictments and convictions. ..."
"... One thing I don't understand...we have the anti-Trumpers saying that Donald Junior meeting with a Russian national to get 'dirt' on Hillary is illegal...due to some law about candidates collaborating with foreigners or something like that...[obviously I'm foggy on the technical details]... Yet we know that the Hillary campaign worked with a foreign national, Steele, to get dirt on Trump...how is this not the same...? ..."
"... What role did Stefan Halper and Mifsud play as Confidential Human Sources in all this? ..."
"... Why was British Intelligence allegedly collecting and passing along info about Donald Trump in the first place? Or could this have been a pretext created to give cover and/or support to the agenda here in the US to insure his defeat? Could a foreign intelligence source such as this trigger/facilitate/justify the US counterintelligence investigation of Trump, or give cover to a covert investigation that may have already begun? ..."
"... British intelligence was collecting / passing on info about Trump because of his campaign stance on NATO (he said it was obsolete), his desire to end regime change wars (he castigated the fiasco in Iraq, took Bush to task over it etc.), and his often stated desire to get along with Russia (and China). Trump also talked of ending certain economic policies (NAFTA, TPP, etc.) and reenacting others (Glass-Steagall, the American System of Economics i.e. Hamilton, Carey, Clay), If Trump had acted on those, which he has not so far, he would changed the entire world system, a system in place since the end of WW II, or earlier. That was a risk too big to take without some kind of insurance policy - I believe Christopher Steele was that insurance policy. ..."
"... British Intelligence is verifiably the foreign source with the most extensive and effective meddling in the 2016 election. Perfidious Albion. ..."
"... Or, GSHQ was hovering up signint on Trump campaign early-on (using domestics US resources and databases via their 5-Eyes "sharing agreement" with NSA) cuz Brennan asked them to do it? ..."
"... Trump announced his run for President in 2015. I'm pretty sure that every intel service on the planet was watching him, they would be derelict not to. GCHQ may have been collecting intel on all the candidates, ..."
"... Trump announced his run for President in 2015. I'm pretty sure that every intel service on the planet was watching him, they would be derelict not to. GCHQ may have been collecting intel on all the candidates, ..."
"... I've heard that the Echelon system is used by the Five Eyes IC to do something similar. The Brits spy on US, and give the NSA the data so the NSA can evade US laws prohibiting spying on us, and we return the favor to help them evade what (few) laws they have that prohibits spying on their people. ..."
"... still wonder why the US would need to rely so much on British intelligence sources ..."
"... I've read that Steele's cover was blown 20 years ago and he hasn't even been to Russia since, so I wonder why he was considered such a reliable source by both the US and UK? In my opinion as an absolute naif about such things, Steele seems like he may be a has-been when it comes to Russia. ..."
"... Here is a simple explanation from someone who knows almost nothing about how any of the people in power work: Most of them are not as clever and smart as they think they are. And most of the regular people who are just citizens are smarter than these people think they are. ..."
"... It's simply that their arrogant assessment of their own superiority caused them to do really stupid things ..."
The revelations from US Government records about the FBI/Intel Community plot to take out Donald Trump continue to flow thanks
to the dogged efforts of Judicial Watch. The latest nugget came last Friday with the release of FBI records detailing their recruitment
and management of Britain's ostensibly retired Intelligence Officer, Christopher Steele. He was an officially recruited FBI source
and received at least 11 payments during the 9 month period that he was signed up as a Confidential Human Source.
You may find it strange that we can glean so much information from
a document dump that is almost
entirely redacted . The key is to look at the report forms; there are three types--FD-1023 (Source Reports), FD-209a (Contact
Reports) and FD-794b (Payment Requests). There are 15 different 1023s, 13 209a reports and 11 794b payment requests covering the
period from 2 February 2016 thru 1 November 2016. That is a total of nine months.
These reports totally destroy the existing meme that Steele only came into contact with the FBI sometime in July 2016. It is important
for you to understand that a 1023 Source Report is filled out each time that the FBI source handler has contact with the source.
This can be an in person meeting or a phone call. Each report lists the name of the Case Agent; the date, time and location of the
meeting; any other people attending the meeting; and a summary of what was discussed.
What is clear from the new records is that Christopher Steele, a foreign intelligence officer, had frequent and extensive
contacts with the FBI. Who was his FBI Case Agent?
The main thing I want to know is WHEN was the decision made to tar Trump with Russia - both at the FBI (and likely CIA)
and at the DNC (over the leak) - and WHO was the deciding entity - Comey, Brennan, Clinton, Obama or someone else? And perhaps
who came up with the idea in the first place (at the DNC, it was very likely Alexandra Chalupa, the Ukrainian-American DNC "consultant").
We can be pretty sure this predates any alleged Russian "hacking" (unless it occurred as a result of alleged Russian hacking
of the DNC in 2015).
This needs to be pinned down if anyone is to be successfully prosecuted for creating this treasonous hoax.
A very closely related topic, Victor Davis Hanson is onto something but it is darker than he suggests,
https://www.nationalreview.... Paraphrasing, he gives the typical, rally around the flag we must stop the Russians intro but
then documents how govt flaks abused their power to influence our elections and then makes the point, 'this is why the public
is skeptical of their claims'.
The bad thing is that our MSM is so reverent of our Intel agencies that I see them encouraged to increasingly put their
hand on the scale.
Recently, I saw arm flailing by a Congressman, Dan Coats, and Mueller about how the Russians are still at it. They are
trying to disrupt or influence the 2018. Really, then I demand to get a list of the pro-Kremlin candidates. How long before the
mere threat of being outed as a Kremlin agent is used to punish elected officials if they are not sufficiently hawkish or don't
support certain programs. Unchallenged claims by Intel agencies gives them a lot of political power.
I am skeptical. Russia has a lot of fish to fry, why would they expend resources on midterm elections. Now everyone in
the U.S. hates them, both traditional hawk Republicans and born again uber-hawk Democrats. There is a tiger behind both doors.
What I can't figure out is: if Steele had been a CHS since at least February of 2016, what was the purpose of passing the
Dossier to the FBI through Fusion GPS? Why not just going to his FBI handler? Was Steele collaboration with Fusion even in compliance
with FBI regulations? Did the FBI know?
Because part of the plan was to leak the information in order to damage Trump. FBI could not do that. Would have exposed them
to some real legal jeopardy. This was a dual track strategy. Diabolical almost.
Don't forget the Nellie Ohr (Fusion GPS) -> Bruce Ohr (DOJ) back channel. The husband & wife tag team. Yes, the same Nellie
that was investigating using ham radio to communicate to avoid NSA mass surveillance.
From the very beginning that information about all this was slowly leaking from the Congressional investigation, this whole
thing smelled very fishy. Then add intense effort at DOJ & FBI to obstruct and obfuscate. And the unhinged tweets and interviews
by Brennan, Clapper & Comey. And of course the media narrative that Rep. Nunes, Goodlatte and others were endangering "national
security" by casting aspersions on the "patriotic" law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
He was working with FBI and GPS at the same time. GPS was in the dark supposedly about his work with the FBI and Steele got
their approval to hand over what he had delivered to GPS to the FBI as a cover for his work with the FBI.
Of course, he had most likely already done so and its also likely FBI had some input into the content of what was delivered
to GPS, and more importantly what was not delivered.
Re the 'standing agreement to not recruit each other's intelligence personnel for clandestine activities.' As Steele was
not by this time a current employee of MI6, was the FBI in technical violation of this?
The point is not merely a quibble. A central question in regard to Steele, as with quite a number of former intelligence/law
enforcement/military people who have started at least ostensibly private sector operations, is how far these are being used as
'cover' for activities conducted on behalf of either the state agencies for which they used to work, or other state agencies.
It is at least possible that one advantage of such arrangements may be that they make it possible to evade the letter of
agreements between intelligence agencies in different countries.
Another related matter has to do with the termination of Steele as a 'Confidential Human Source.'
It has long seemed to me that it was more than possible that this was not to be taken at face value. If, as seems likely,
both current and former top FBI and DOJ people – very likely Mueller as well as Comey, Strzok and many others – were intimately
involved in the conspiracy to subvert the constitution, then a means of making it possible for Steele to combine feeding information
to the FBI while also engaging in 'StratCom' via the MSM could have been necessary.
An obvious means of 'squaring the circle' would have been to issue a formal 'termination' to Steele, while creating 'back
channels' to those who were officially supposed not to be talking to him.
A report yesterday by John Solomon in 'The Hill' quotes from messages exchanged between Steele and Bruce Ohr after the
supposed termination.
When on 31 January 2017 – well after the publication of the dossier by BuzzFeed – Ohr provided reassurance that he could continue
to help feed information to the FBI, Steele texted back:
"If you end up out though, I really need another (bureau?) contact point/number who is briefed. We can't allow our guy to be
forced to go back home. It would be disastrous."
At that point, Solomon tells us that 'Investigators are trying to determine who Steele was referring to.' This seems to me
a rather important question. It would seem likely, although not certain, that he is talking about another Brit. If he is, would
it have been someone else employed by Orbis? Or someone currently working for British intelligence? What is the precise significance
of 'forced to go back home', and why would this have been 'disastrous'?
Another crucial paragraph:
'In all, Ohr's notes, emails and texts identify more than 60 contacts with Steele and/or Simpson, some dating to 2002 in
London. But the vast majority occurred during the 2016-2017 timeframe that gave birth to one of the most controversial counterintelligence
probes in American history.'
The earlier contacts may be of little interest, but there again they may not be.
As it happens, it was following Berezovsky's arrival in London in October 2001 that the 'information operations' network he
created began to move into high gear. It is moreover clear that this was always a transatlantic operation, and also fragments
of evidence suggest that the FBI may have had some involvement from early on.
I have just finished taking a fresh look at Sir Robert Owen's travesty of a report into the death of Litvinenko. In large
measure, this develops claims originally made in Christopher Steele's first attempt to provide a convincing account of why figures
close to Putin might have thought it made sense to assassinate that figure, and to do so with polonium. The sheer volume of fabrication
which has been deployed in an attempt to defend the patently indefensible almost beggars belief.
The original attempt came in a radio programme broadcast by the BBC – which was to become known to some of us as the 'Berezovsky
Broadcasting Corporation' – on 16 December 2006, presented by Tom Mangold, a familiar 'trusty' for the intelligence services.
(A transcript sent out from the Cabinet Office at the time is available on the archived 'Evidence' page for the Inquiry, at
http://webarchive.nationala... , as HMG000513. There is an interesting and rather important question as to whether those who
sent it out, and those who received it, knew that it was more or less BS from start to finish.)
The programme was wholly devoted to claims made by the former KGB operative Yuri Shvets, who was presented as an independent
'due diligence' expert, without any mention of the rather major role he had played in the original 'Orange Revolution.'
Back-up was provided by his supposed collaborator in 'due diligence', the former FBI operative Robert 'Bobby' Levinson. No
mention was made of the fact that he had been, in the 'Nineties, a, if not the lead FBI investigator into the notorious Ukrainian
Jewish mobster Semyon Mogilevich.
The following March Levinson would disappear on the Iranian island of Kish, on what we now know was a covert mission on behalf
of elements in the CIA.
Just as a question arises as to whether Steele is essentially acting on behalf of MI6, a question also arises as to whether
the FBI leadership were knowledgeable about, and possibly involved with, the various shenanigans in which Shvets and Levinson
were involved. Given that claims about Mogilevich have turned out to be central to 'Russiagate', that seems a rather important
issue, and I am curious as to whether Ohr's communications with Steele may cast any light on it.
Apparently the FBI got Deripaksa to fund the rescue of Levinson from Iran. Furthermore apparently FBI personnel maybe including
McCabe visited with Deripaksa and showed him the Steele dossier. He supposedly had a nice guffaw and dismissed it as nonsense.
So on the one hand while they make Russia out to be the most evil they play footsie with Russian oligarchs.
Thinking about "Christopher Steele was terminated as a Confidential Human Source for cause.", something that doesn't seem
to have gotten as much attention is that Peter Strzok failed his poly:
Steele's relationship with the FBI extends far further back than February 2016. Shortly after he left MI6, he contracted with
the Football Association to investigate possible FIFA corruption. Once he realized the massiveness of this corruption he contacted
his old friends at the FBI Eurasian Crimes Task Force in 2011. Thus began his association with the FBI as a CHS. That investigation
culminated in the 2015 FIFA corruption indictments and convictions. His initial contact with old friends at the FBI Eurasian
Crime Task Force is awfully similar to his contacting these same friends in 2016 after deciding his initial Trump research was
potentially bigger than mere opposition research.
One thing I don't understand...we have the anti-Trumpers saying that Donald Junior meeting with a Russian national to get
'dirt' on Hillary is illegal...due to some law about candidates collaborating with foreigners or something like that...[obviously
I'm foggy on the technical details]... Yet we know that the Hillary campaign worked with a foreign national, Steele, to get dirt
on Trump...how is this not the same...?
Even worse is that the FBI was using this same foreign agent that a presidential
candidate had hired to get dirt on an opponent... Even knowing nothing about legalities this just doesn't look very good...
Stupid question? As the Col. has explained, the President can declassify any document he pleases. So, why doesn't Donaldo unredact
the redacted portions of these bullcrap docs? What is he afraid of? That the Intel community will get mad and be out to get him?
Isn't time for him to show some cojones?
Why was British Intelligence allegedly collecting and passing along info about Donald Trump in the first place? Or could this
have been a pretext created to give cover and/or support to the agenda here in the US to insure his defeat? Could a foreign intelligence
source such as this trigger/facilitate/justify the US counterintelligence investigation of Trump, or give cover to a covert investigation
that may have already begun?
British intelligence was collecting / passing on info about Trump because of his campaign stance on NATO (he said it was obsolete),
his desire to end regime change wars (he castigated the fiasco in Iraq, took Bush to task over it etc.), and his often stated
desire to get along with Russia (and China). Trump also talked of ending certain economic policies (NAFTA, TPP, etc.) and reenacting
others (Glass-Steagall, the American System of Economics i.e. Hamilton, Carey, Clay), If Trump had acted on those, which he has
not so far, he would changed the entire world system, a system in place since the end of WW II, or earlier. That was a risk too
big to take without some kind of insurance policy - I believe Christopher Steele was that insurance policy.
Or, GSHQ was hovering up signint on Trump campaign early-on (using domestics US resources and databases via their 5-Eyes "sharing
agreement" with NSA) cuz Brennan asked them to do it? And therefore without having to mess about with any formal FISA warrant
thingy's ... But, then use what might be found (or plausibly alleged) to try to get a proper FISA warrant later on (July 2016)?
'Parallel Discovery' of sorts; with Fusion GPS also a leaky cut-out: channelling media reports to be used as confirmation of Steele's
"raw intelligence" in the formal FISA application(s)?
Trump announced his run for President in 2015. I'm pretty sure that every intel service on the planet was watching him, they
would be derelict not to. GCHQ may have been collecting intel on all the candidates,
" Trump announced his run for President in 2015. I'm pretty sure that every intel service on the planet was watching
him, they would be derelict not to. GCHQ may have been collecting intel on all the candidates, "
That's a good question, could it legally enable an end run around the FISC until enough evidence was gathered for a FISC surveillance
authorization?.
I've heard that the Echelon system is used by the Five Eyes IC to do something similar. The Brits spy on US, and give the
NSA the data so the NSA can evade US laws prohibiting spying on us, and we return the favor to help them evade what (few) laws
they have that prohibits spying on their people.
Only a matter of time until someone figured out the same method could be used to "meddle" in national affairs.
I understand, but still wonder why the US would need to rely so much on British intelligence sources such as Steele about
a very high profile American citizen and businessman -- aren't our intelligence services competent enough to have known and discovered
as much if not more about Trump than other countries' intelligence services? I've read that Steele's cover was blown 20 years
ago and he hasn't even been to Russia since, so I wonder why he was considered such a reliable source by both the US and UK? In
my opinion as an absolute naif about such things, Steele seems like he may be a has-been when it comes to Russia.
Here is a simple explanation from someone who knows almost nothing about how any of the people in power work: Most of them
are not as clever and smart as they think they are. And most of the regular people who are just citizens are smarter than these
people think they are.
It's simply that their arrogant assessment of their own superiority caused them to do really stupid things.
Brennan role in weaponizing dossier now became more clear.
Notable quotes:
"... Indeed, Fusion GPS hiring of Nellie Ohr -- the wife of senior Justice Department official Bruce Ohr -- also shows that Steele's role in producing the dossier may be exaggerated. Ohr is a Stanford Ph.D. whose expertise is Russia and she appears to be fluent in Russian. She may have conducted interviews or written parts of the dossier. ..."
"... The dossier, however, only has Steele's name on it -- helping to credential the research as an "intelligence product." ..."
"... A Democratic consultant and Ukrainian-American activist named Alexandra Chalupa, told the Clinton campaign about Manafort's work for Yanukovich. "I flagged for the DNC the significance of his hire," Chalupa told CNN in July of this year. ..."
"... Perkins Coie hired Fusion GPS in April, shortly after Trump hired Manafort. Manafort's role now allowed Simpson to highlight corruption that he already knew to exist, from his reporting. A line from the dossier states: ..."
"... Steele -- it notes -- had not lived or worked in Russia for nearly 25 years, but his name "at a minimum" would be useful in marketing whatever his firm pulled together. Plus, Steele had a good relationship with the FBI and could "spill secrets" to journalists. ..."
"... it is likely that Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook cited Fusion GPS's work in a July 22 interview after embarrassing leaks of Democratic National Committee emails. He told ABC News's George Stephanopoulos that "some experts are now telling us that this was done by the Russians for the purpose of helping Donald Trump." ..."
"... The FBI did launch an investigation into possible collusion, however, known by "only a dozen or so people at the FBI," including then-director James Comey and Peter Strzok, who was chosen to supervise the investigation. ..."
"... She said by August 2016, the CIA had "verified the key finding of the dossier" to the point that it was having "eyes only" top secret meetings with President Obama about it. ..."
"... CIA Director John Brennan had also briefed top lawmakers on Russian efforts to help Trump last summer and had said the CIA had limited legal ability to investigate Russian connections to Trump, prompting Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) to write a public letter to the FBI -- which collects domestic intelligence -- about the threat of Russian interference. ..."
"... It appears that Brennan was briefing Reid on the Steele dossier. ..."
"... Brennan apparently sent the dossier to the White House, prompting the "eyes only" meetings. ..."
"... The Post also writes that the "material was so sensitive that CIA Director John O. Brennan kept it out of the president's daily brief, concerned that even that restricted report's distribution was too broad." ..."
"... But as Tablet asks, "if the material was so sensitive that it had to be kept out of the PDB and withheld from the Senate majority leader, why was someone telling The Washington Post about it?" ..."
Did the Obama administration launch an investigation into the Trump campaign based solely off of unverified political opposition
research? And was that "research" dressed up and given more credibility than it should have? It appears that way
based on an
investigation of open-source information by Tablet.
The outlet's investigation begins with a June 24, 2017, Facebook post by Mary Jacoby, the wife of Glenn Simpson, the former
Wall Street Journal reporter who started Fusion GPS, the firm behind the dossier.
Jacoby, a former Wall Street Journal reporter who once shared bylines with Simpson, bragged how her husband was not getting
the credit he deserved for the dossier.
"It's come to my attention that some people still don't realize what Glenn's role was in exposing Putin's control of Donald Trump,"
she wrote on Facebook. "Let's be clear. Glenn conducted the investigation. Glenn hired Chris Steele. Chris Steele worked for Glenn."
Until this day, the dossier is often referred to as the "Steele dossier," named after the former British spy Christopher Steele
who is believed to have authored the document.
Steele's background has been used by collusion-believers to argue that the document is credible. But Jacoby's post suggests that
Steele might not have played as big of a role in the dossier as he is given credit.
Indeed, Fusion GPS hiring of Nellie Ohr -- the wife of senior Justice Department official Bruce Ohr -- also shows that Steele's
role in producing the dossier may be exaggerated. Ohr is a Stanford Ph.D. whose expertise is Russia and she appears to be fluent
in Russian. She may have conducted interviews or written parts of the dossier.
The dossier, however, only has Steele's name on it -- helping to credential the research as an "intelligence product."
Tablet also took a look at Simpson and Jacoby's work for the WSJ . In April 2007 -- in the lead-up to the 2008 election
-- they co-wrote a story about Republican links to Russians.
In that story, titled "How Lobbyists Help Ex-Soviets Woo Washington," they detail how prominent Republicans helped open doors
for "Kremlin-affiliated oligarchs and other friends of Vladimir Putin."
They reported on Viktor Yanukovich, who had paid political fixer Paul Manafort to introduce Yanukovich to powerful Washington,
DC, figures. They later reported on May 14, 2008, that Manafort's lobbying firm was escorting Yanukovich around Washington. Yanukovich
would later become president of Ukraine in 2010.
Tablet explains how their reporting may have been the origins of the Trump dossier:
So when the Trump campaign named Paul Manafort as its campaign convention manager on March 28, 2016, you can bet that Simpson
and Jacoby's eyes lit up. And as it happened, at the exact same time that Trump hired Manafort, Fusion GPS was in negotiations
with Perkins Coie, the law firm representing the Clinton campaign and the DNC, to see if there was interest in the firm continuing
the opposition research on the Trump campaign they had started for the Washington Free Beacon. In addition to whatever sales pitch
Simpson might have offered about Manafort, the Clinton campaign had independent reason to believe that research into Manafort's
connections might pay some real political dividends: A Democratic consultant and Ukrainian-American activist named Alexandra
Chalupa, told the Clinton campaign about Manafort's work for Yanukovich. "I flagged for the DNC the significance of his hire,"
Chalupa told CNN in July of this year.
Perkins Coie hired Fusion GPS in April, shortly after Trump hired Manafort. Manafort's role now allowed Simpson to highlight
corruption that he already knew to exist, from his reporting. A line from the dossier states:
Ex-Ukrainian President YANUKOVYCH confides directly to PUTIN that he authorised (sic) kick-back payments to MANAFORT, as alleged
in western media Assures Russian President however there is no documentary evidence/trail.
Tablet notes that Special Counsel Robert Mueller would later find corruption by Manafort related to money laundering (before he
joined the Trump campaign). It also points out that Tony Podesta -- Hillary Clinton campaign manager John Podesta's brother -- worked
for Manafort at the time he represented Yanukovich. (The Podesta Group disbanded this year after those connections were made public,
and the special counsel is reportedly investigating Podesta too.)
Tablet notes that while Simpson had begun working on the dossier on Trump collusion with Russia, he was also working for a Russian
lawyer to undermine an American law called the Magnitsky Act and that Steele may have been hired to disguise that contradiction.
Steele -- it notes -- had not lived or worked in Russia for nearly 25 years, but his name "at a minimum" would be useful in
marketing whatever his firm pulled together. Plus, Steele had a good relationship with the FBI and could "spill secrets" to journalists.
Ohr -- Simpson's next hire -- also hadn't lived in Russia for decades and was "not a spy, or even a journalist." "In this world,
she was definitely an amateur," Tablet writes.
"Presumably, as a result of all the above, much of the reporting in the dossier is recognizably the kind of patter that locals
in closed or semi-closed societies engage in to impress expats -- the kind of thing you hear in a bar, or on the cab ride from the
airport to the hotel," it says.
Tablet then goes into the bad shape of U.S. intelligence on Russia -- likely making officials less skeptical of the dossier even
though, to date, they have not been able to confirm any of its allegations on collusion.
And Tablet notes that it is likely that Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook cited Fusion GPS's work in a July 22 interview
after embarrassing leaks of Democratic National Committee emails. He told ABC News's George Stephanopoulos that "some experts are
now telling us that this was done by the Russians for the purpose of helping Donald Trump."
At that point, a tech firm had attributed the leaks to Russia but was not able to explain why. The FBI was looking at the leak
but had not yet publicly determined political motivation.
"But the DNC and Clinton campaign did have an oppo-research firm under contract that was in the middle of putting together a file
that would claim that the Russians were trying to get Trump elected," Tablet notes.
The FBI did launch an investigation into possible collusion, however, known by "only a dozen or so people at the FBI," including
then-director James Comey and Peter Strzok, who was chosen to supervise the investigation.
But by late October, they had not yet found any evidence that showed Russia was working to elect Trump. So, ten days before the
election, angry Clinton supporters and unnamed intelligence officials
spoke to
the New York Times in an October 31, 2016, story about what the investigation had found so far.
Jacoby would post that story in her June 24 Facebook post, slamming the FBI and accusing it of "ineptitude," while the CIA "hopped
to and immediately worked to verify" the dossier.
She said by August 2016, the CIA had "verified the key finding of the dossier" to the point that it was having "eyes only"
top secret meetings with President Obama about it.
Thus, while the document could not be verified and was not used in any intelligence assessment because of its inability to be
verified, it was now the topic of meetings with the president.
CIA Director John Brennan had also briefed top lawmakers on Russian efforts to help Trump last summer and had said the CIA
had limited legal ability to investigate Russian connections to Trump, prompting Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) to write a public letter
to the FBI -- which collects domestic intelligence -- about the threat of Russian interference.
Reid then wrote another letter to Comey after he reopened the investigation into Clinton's emails -- accusing him of letting Trump
slide.
"It has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his
top advisers, and the Russian government -- a foreign interest openly hostile to the United States, which Trump praises at every
opportunity," he wrote.
"I wrote to you months ago calling for this information to be released to the public and yet, you continue to resist calls
to inform the public of this critical information."
That "information" Reid was referring to was the dossier, according to Tablet:
According to David Corn's Oct. 31, 2016, article in Mother Jones , the Nevada lawmaker was referencing the findings
of "a former senior intelligence officer for a Western country who specialized in Russian counterintelligence."
Corn now explains that the "former Western intelligence officer -- who spent almost two decades on Russian intelligence matters
and who now works with a U.S. firm that gathers information on Russia for corporate clients" is Christopher Steele. According
to Corn, Steele said that "in recent months he provided the bureau with memos, based on his recent interactions with Russian sources,
contending the Russian government has for years tried to co-opt and assist Trump."
It appears that Brennan was briefing Reid on the Steele dossier.
Brennan apparently sent the dossier to the White House, prompting the "eyes only" meetings.
"An envelope with extraordinary handling restrictions arrived at the White House. Sent by courier from the CIA, it carried 'eyes
only' instructions that its contents be shown to just four people: President Barack Obama and three senior aides," the
Washington
Post
reported on June 23, 2017.
"So was the Steele dossier in the envelope?" Tablet asks.
The Post writes that inside that envelope "was an intelligence bombshell" -- a report drawn from sourcing deep inside
the Russian government that detained Putin's direct involvement in a cyber campaign to disrupt and discredit the presidential race,
defeat or at least damage Hillary Clinton, and help elect Donald Trump.
The Post also writes that the "material was so sensitive that CIA Director John O. Brennan kept it out of the president's
daily brief, concerned that even that restricted report's distribution was too broad."
But as Tablet asks, "if the material was so sensitive that it had to be kept out of the PDB and withheld from the Senate majority
leader, why was someone telling The Washington Post about it?"
Tablet writes:
Sources and methods are the crown jewels of the American intelligence community. And yet someone has just told a major American
newspaper about a "report drawn from sourcing deep inside the Russian government that captured Putin's specific instructions."
If the CIA had a human intelligence source that close to Putin, publication of the Post article could have exposed that
source -- doing incalculable damage to American national security. He and many of his loved ones would then have presumably died
horrible deaths.
Or, as Mary Jacoby surmised, it was her husband's handiwork that landed on the president's desk.
The public's tax dollars were spent on creating fake "evidence" to tie Trump with Russia, a false narrative that
put the planet at heightened risk for nuclear war, for the sake of the Clinton's hurt feelings.
Notable quotes:
"... In other words, the public's tax dollars were spent on creating fake "evidence" to tie Trump with Russia, a false narrative that put the planet at heightened risk for nuclear war, for the sake of the Clinton's hurt feelings. ..."
"... Even more interesting is the close relationship Isikoff had with the DNC during the 2016 Presidential election. According to an email from the DNC released by Wikileaks , Isikoff attended the "Open World Society's forum" as the guest of DNC official Ali Chalupa. In the email, Chalupa states that she was invited to the forum to speak specifically about Paul Manafort, the former campaign manager for Donald Trump. Chalupa goes on to state that she has been working with Isikoff for the past few weeks and that at the event, she was able to get him "connected him to the Ukrainians." She adds: ..."
"... "I invited Michael Isikoff whom I've been working with for the past few weeks and connected him to the Ukrainians. More offline tomorrow since there is a big Trump component you and Lauren need to be aware of that will hit in next few weeks and something I'm working on you should be aware of." ..."
On Friday, the much anticipated
"Nunes Memo"
was finally released to the general public.
Disobedient
Media previously reported on the push to prevent the memo from being released. While there is much contained in the four pages,
the most glaring issue contained in the memo is the FBI's willful concealment of pertinent details of which they were required by
law to turn over to the FISA court when seeking the initial surveillance warrant on
Carter Page , a former volunteer foreign policy adviser for the Trump campaign.
According to the memo, former director James Comey signed three FISA applications on behalf of the FBI. Additionally, Deputy Director
Andrew McCabe, former Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, former Deputy Attorney General Dana Boente, and acting Deputy Attorney
General Rod Rosenstein, each signed one or more applications on behalf of the DOJ.
Under 50 U.S.C. § 1805(d)(1) , a FISA order on
an American citizen must be renewed by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) every 90 days. In order to protect the
rights of Americans, each subsequent renewal requires a separate finding of probable cause. This means that the in order to be granted
a renewal, the government is required to produce all material and relevant facts to the court, including any information which may
be potentially favorable to the target of the FISA application.
On four separate occasions the Obama administration essentially claimed before the FISA court that Page had betrayed his country
by working for a hostile foreign nation, and therefore it was necessary that the government violate his Fourth Amendment rights.
However, in this case, the government purposely withheld relevant information from the government not once, but four separate times.
According to the memo, at no time during the initial application process for the warrant to surveil Page, or in any of the three
renewals of that application, did the government disclose to the FISA Court the nature of their relationship with Christopher Steele,
his relationship with the Democratic National Committee (DNC), or his relationship with the Clinton campaign. Instead, the memo simply,
yet vaguely states that, "Steele was working for a named U.S. person."
Instead, the government purposefully withheld information from the court that the "dossier" compiled by Steele was done so on
behalf of the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign. It was further withheld from the court that the DNC had paid Steele over $160,000
for his work in compiling this "dossier", and that the money was
funneled to Steele through the law firm Perkins Coie,
which represents both the Hillary Clinton campaign as well as the DNC in legal matters. According to the
National Review , the Clinton campaign and the DNC
paid at least $9.1 million to Perkins Coie from mid-2015 to late 2016.
The government further held from the court the fact that the FBI had authorized payments to Steele. According to the
New York Post , in October 2016 the FBI contracted
to pay Steele $50,000 to "help corroborate the dirt on Trump."
In March of 2017, CNN also reported that the FBI had entered into an
arrangement with Steele, whereby they agreed to
cover all of his expenses.
While it is extremely disconcerting that the government willfully concealed the existence of their financial relationship with
Steele, a foreign national, what is more troubling is the fact that the government used tax payer dollars to do so. In other words,
every single American who did not vote for Hillary Clinton, whether they voted for Trump or a third party candidate or did not vote
at all – were forced to finance the Clinton campaign-funded opposition research.
In other words, the public's tax dollars were spent on creating fake "evidence" to tie Trump with Russia, a false narrative that
put the planet at heightened risk for nuclear war, for the sake of the Clinton's hurt feelings.
Why the media refuses to mention or cover this fact, this author does not know. But this is an extremely important fact that every
American, whether left, right, up, down, should remember, as it is the perfect example of the corruption which exists within our
tax payer-funded institutions, which we are told to have nothing but the utmost respect for.
According to the memo, in an effort to corroborate Steele's dossier, the FBI extensively cited a September 23, 2016, Yahoo News
article by Michael Isikoff, titled " U.S. intel officials probe ties between Trump
adviser and Kremlin ", which focuses on Page's July 2016 trip to Moscow. However, when presenting this article to the court the
FBI falsely assessed that Steele did not provide this information directly to Isikoff. Meaning that the FBI was aware that the article
they presented to the court was not corroborating evidence from a separate source, because the information in the article was provided
to Isikoff by Steele himself. In fact, as the memo points out, Steele himself has stated in British court filings that in September
2016 he met with Yahoo News , as well as several
other outlets including the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the New Yorker.
What's more, in an article published on January 12, 2017, Isikoff reports
on a story by the Wall Street Journal in which Christopher Steele is identified as the author of the infamous dossier, and even notes
that Steele was an " FBI asset ". However, what is
most striking about this article is the fact that despite receiving the underline information which served as the basis for his own
article in September, Isikoff pretends have not known that Steele was the source of the dossier.
Even more interesting is the close relationship Isikoff had with the DNC during the 2016 Presidential election. According
to an email from the DNC released by Wikileaks ,
Isikoff attended the "Open World Society's forum" as the guest of DNC official Ali Chalupa. In the email, Chalupa states that she
was invited to the forum to speak specifically about Paul Manafort, the former campaign manager for Donald Trump. Chalupa goes on
to state that she has been
working with Isikoff for the past few weeks and
that at the event, she was able to get him "connected him to the Ukrainians." She adds:
"I invited Michael Isikoff whom I've been working with for the past few weeks and connected him to the Ukrainians. More
offline tomorrow since there is a big Trump component you and Lauren need to be aware of that will hit in next few weeks and something
I'm working on you should be aware of."
According to the memo, Steele's relationship with the FBI as a source continued until late October 2016, when he was terminated
for what the FBI defines as the most serious violations, "an unauthorized disclosure to the media of his relationship with the FBI".
This unauthorized disclosure occurred in an October 30, 2016, Mother Jones
article by David Corn, the reporter who broke the infamous Mitt Romney
"47 Percent" story.
Again, the FBI did not notify the court that Steele was leaking information to media outlets, or that he was terminated by the
FBI after doing so for the second time.
Before and after his termination, Steele maintained contact with then-Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce Ohr, whose wife,
Nellie Ohr, was employed by Fusion GPS. Ohr would later tell the FBI in an interview in September 2016, that Steele had stated that
he, "was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president."
Lastly, the memo also reveals that the Steele dossier was so crucial to the investigation, that Deputy Director McCabe testified
in December 2017 that no surveillance warrant would have been sought from the FISC without the Steele dossier information. This admission
by the former Deputy Director is damning, as it proves that, if it were not for the Clinton campaign and DNC funded dossier created
by a foreign national, there would have been no surveillance of Page, and ultimately there would have never been a special counsel
appointed.
At the end of the day, every American, regardless of their position on the political spectrum, should be worried about the fact
that the FBI and DOJ sought and were granted a warrant to spy on an opposing political campaign based on a document that the FBI
itself had neither verified or corroborated. If the FISA court does in fact employ strict "safeguards" and procedures in order to
ensure that the rights of American citizens are not being systematically violated, how is it that the FBI and DOJ were able to obtain
a surveillance warrant based on unverified allegations? And why did Congress overwhelmingly vote to
reauthorize
Section 702? Vote up! 15 Vote down! 0
This whole ball of wax should be in the public hands. Straight up clear cut case for a real civilian grand jury. As far removed
from the government control as possible. Its a corruption issue. Nobody in government has clean hands.
This is a problem because across the 5-eyes intel agencies are being given extra-judicial powers to do basically whatever they
want without oversight and without legal boundaries. This assumes the agencies will never become politicised, and that no individual
within the agencies will ever have an axe to grind against an ex, or a petty hatred to pursue, or political agendas of their own.
What FISA-gate shows is that this is clearly not the case. We need the reimposition of free speech, transparency and of civilian
rule of government.
Only an informed public can really be in charge of its elected government. We need to be in charge again because civilians
are fast being kettled into a snare where we have no say in the decisions that our governments take. It's being decided by the
deep state bureaucracy
"... Chalupa's meetings with DNC and Ukrainian officials would continue. On April 26, 2016, investigative reporter Michael Isikoff published a story on Yahoo News about Manafort's business dealings with Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska. It was later learned from a DNC email leaked by Wikileaks that Chalupa had been working with Isikoff -- the same journalist Christopher Steele leaked to in September 2016. Manafort would later be indicted for Foreign Agents Registration Act violations that occurred during the Obama administration. Perkins Coie ..."
The Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee both occupied a unique position. They had the most to gain but they
also had the most to lose. And they stood willing and ready to do whatever was necessary to win. Hillary Clinton's campaign manager,
Robby Mook, is credited with being the first to raise the specter of candidate Donald Trump's alleged collusion with Russia.
The entire Clinton campaign willfully promoted the narrative of Russia–Trump collusion despite the uncomfortable fact that they
were the ones who had engaged the services of Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele through their law firm Perkins Coie. Information
flowed from the campaign -- sometimes through Perkins Coie, other times through affiliates -- ultimately making its way into the
media and sometimes to the FBI. Information from the Clinton campaign may also have ended up in the Steele dossier.
Jennifer Palmieri, the communications director for the Clinton campaign, in tandem with Jake Sullivan, the senior policy adviser
to the campaign,
took the lead in briefing the press on the Trump–Russia collusion story.
Palmieri helped promote the Russia-collusion narrative.
Another example of this behavior can be seen from an instance when Perkins Coie lawyer Michael Sussmann
leaked information from Steele and Fusion GPS to Franklin Foer of Slate magazine. This event is described in the House Intelligence
Committee's final report on
Russian active measures
, in footnote 43 on page 57. Foer then published the article
"Was a Trump Server Communicating With Russia? " on Oct. 31, 2016. The article concerns allegations regarding a server in the
Trump Tower.
The Slate article managed to attract the immediate attention of Clinton, who posted a
tweet on the same day the article was
published:
"Computer scientists have apparently uncovered a covert server linking the Trump Organization to a Russian-based bank."
Attached to her tweet was a
statement from Sullivan:
"This could be the most direct link yet between Donald Trump and Moscow. Computer scientists have apparently uncovered a covert
server linking the Trump Organization to a Russian-based bank.
"This secret hotline may be the key to unlocking the mystery of Trump's ties to Russia. It certainly seems the Trump Organization
felt it had something to hide, given that it apparently took steps to conceal the link when it was discovered by journalists."
These statements, which were later proven to be incorrect, are all the more disturbing with the hindsight knowledge that it was
a senior Clinton/DNC lawyer who helped plant the story. And given the prepared statement by Sullivan, the Clinton campaign knew this.
This type of behavior would be engaged in repeatedly -- damning leaks leading to media stories, followed by ready attacks from
the Clinton campaign.
Alexandra Chalupa is a Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee. Chalupa
met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, Paul Manafort, and Russia.
Chalupa began investigating
Manafort in 2014. In late 2015, Chalupa expanded her opposition research on Manafort to include Trump's ties to Russia. In January
2016, Chalupa shared her information with a senior DNC official.
Chalupa's meetings with DNC and Ukrainian officials would continue. On April 26, 2016, investigative reporter Michael Isikoff
published a story
on Yahoo News about Manafort's business dealings with Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska. It was later learned from a DNC email leaked
by Wikileaks that Chalupa had been working with Isikoff
-- the same journalist Christopher Steele
leaked to
in September 2016. Manafort would later be indicted for Foreign Agents Registration Act violations that occurred during the Obama
administration. Perkins Coie
International law firm Perkins Coie served as the legal arm for both the Clinton campaign and the DNC. Ties to Perkins Coie extended
beyond the DNC into the Obama White House.
Bob Bauer, a partner at the law firm and founder of its political law practice, served as
White House counsel to President Barack Obama throughout
2010 and 2011. Bauer was also
general counsel to Obama's campaign organization, Obama for America, in 2008 and 2012.
Perkins Coie partners Marc Elias and Michael Sussmann each played critical roles and were the ones who hired Fusion GPS and Steele.
Sussmann
personally handled the alleged hack of the DNC server. He also transmitted information, likely from Steele and Fusion GPS, to
James Baker, then-chief counsel at the FBI, and to several members of the press.
According to a
letter
dated Oct. 24, 2017, written by Matthew Gehringer, general counsel at Perkins Coie, the firm was approached by Fusion GPS founder
Glenn Simpson in early March 2016 regarding the possibility of hiring Fusion GPS to continue opposition research into the Trump campaign.
Simpson's overtures were successful, and in April 2016, Perkins Coie
hired
Fusion GPS on behalf of the DNC.
Sometime in April or May 2016, Fusion GPS
hired Christopher Steele. During
this same period, Fusion also reportedly
hired Nellie Ohr, the wife of Associate Deputy Attorney General Bruce Ohr. Steele would complete his first memo on June 20, 2016,
and send it to Fusion via enciphered mail.
Perkins Coie appears to have also been acting as a conduit between the DNC and the FBI.
Documents suggest that Sussmann was feeding information to FBI general counsel James Baker and at least one journalist ahead
of the FBI's application for a FISA warrant on the Trump campaign.
The information provided by Sussmann may have been used by the FBI as "corroborating information."
Jeff Carlson is a regular contributor to The Epoch Times. He also runs the website
TheMarketsWork.com and can be followed on Twitter @themarketswork.
Lindemann told the site kp.ru that personally saw letters of bodies of justice of the
self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk national republics (DNR and LNR) according to which 90% of
shells arrived to Donbass from the territory of Ukraine.
"The reports serve as the purest proof that Poroshenko did not want peace for Donbass," the
Deputy concluded.
He told that the Ukrainian army strongly damaged the bridge in the Village Lugansk. Now
through its destroyed spans are thrown wooden stairs, which have to pass civilians, including
the elderly, said Lindemann. According to the Deputy, the authorities can't repair the bridge,
as in this case the Ukrainian army will destroy it again. The politician called Kiev's position
on this issue terrible: the European countries were going to allocate money for repair of the
bridge, but the Ukrainian authorities didn't allow to make it.
Lindemann emphasized that the Tribunal for Poroshenko and his colleagues guilty of a
situation in Donbass, has to be fair. In world history, there were no cases when the current
President fell under the international court of justice with such accusations, so it can only
be possible after Poroshenko will resign the powers of the head of state in May, the Deputy
said.
The German politician called Poroshenko a military junta leader who stole resources from the
armed conflict for personal enrichment. Lindemann expressed the hope that with the coming to
power in Ukraine a new people, the confrontation in the Donbass will cease.
Vasyl Golovanov : ...We live with this President for 5 years. Whether you expected
such result and what, in your opinion, to expect from Vladimir Aleksandrovich.
Viktor Medvedchuk : Vasily, this result was expected. At least he was predictable,
because Poroshenko should not have become and did not become President. And the reason for this
is his policy, which our party has repeatedly spoken about. And not only our party, but
actually opposition forces which in the majority United in questions of criticism of mister
Poroshenko. And they talked about peace in the Donbass, and the cessation of hostilities,
talked about the tariff genocide, national radicalism, the impoverishment of millions of
citizens, criminal lawlessness, social injustice and many other circumstances that pointed to
what characterizes this regime Poroshenko, which for some reason they called "Euro-reformist",
which actually ruined the country in the economy, social sphere, in the crisis of the political
sphere.
And all this had to end, naturally, with Poroshenko's defeat. And this defeat took
place.
... ... ...
In 1991, when Kravchuk became President, he scored 61.6%. It was a record that was never
broken until actually here on April 21, 2019, when Zelensky won. And it is a great
responsibility, to a great deal. Indeed, our country will live with a new President, with a new
power, I hope, I am far from the idea that this power will remain. And what is happening today
- a new team is being formed - comes with the fact that Mr. Zelensky is preparing to take
office. I think she is facing very relevant challenges. The first was the resignation of the
Cabinet of Ministers. Because with incompetent, untrained professionally, populist government
of Mr. Groisman, actually is can be called the government of Mr. Yatsenyuk, the country is
unable to live any longer.
And if Zelensky, who received such massive support, does not change the team, which, of
course, what is expected of him, he will not be able to realize his election promises.
And therefore - this is the main task that must be performed. It's strategic. And that is
what stands before him now and will be for 5 years. It is necessary to justify the trust that
he received. To meet these expectations, and they are very high. Which means the requirements
will be too high. He must be aware of that.
Vasily Golovanov: We will talk about Vladimir Zelensky later. I would also like to
mention Pyotr Alekseevich. In your words, Poroshenko's complete failure is the people's
response to his Russophobic policy. In your opinion, what will Zelensky's policy be?
Viktor Medvedchuk: it Is difficult to talk about what Zelensky's policy will be, but
I do not think he will repeat the mistakes that Mr Poroshenko made. That is, Mr. Poroshenko,
especially in the last months of the election campaign, the last months of activity as
President, really elevated to the rank of the state policy of anti-Russian hysteria and caveman
level Russophobia. This is a fact. He built the whole campaign on that. And here is even his
slogan: "Army. Faith. Language" -- these words and these meanings for the country, for the
Ukrainian people, they are very important. But what he did with them his manipulation of people
psychology and his perversion of populism exceptional - they led to a backlash.
You will notice how Mr. Zelensky won, where he won the most votes. He scored them in the
East - 88%, in the South - 86%. Do you know how much he scored in the Luhansk region? 90%. Do
you know that Luhansk region has always been the most Russian-speaking region after Crimea in
all the years of independence? Tell me, why did it vote?
Vasily Golovanov : It concerns cities, in villages there are Ukrainian speakers too,
even in the Luhansk region.
Viktor Medvedchuk : The Question is different - their attitude. Of course, I am far
from believing that the votes he received are votes only for him, votes against Poroshenko in
the first place.
Vasily Golovanov : The Question of Peter Alekseevich and language is one of the
slogans of his election campaign. We remember: about two weeks before the election he was a
guest of "Freedom of speech" on ICTV, where he said to the question about the language:
"Actually, I am Russian-speaking".
Viktor Medvedchuk : Of course, we know that.
Vasily Golovanov : And how did it happen that the person who hangs out on all boards
- "Army. Faith. Language, " puts the emphasis on it, and it's one of the priorities of his
campaign, at some point... It's as if he confessed to a different faith...
Viktor Medvedchuk : How did it happen that he admitted this during the election
campaign just before the second round? Why would he do that? Perhaps he was beginning to
realize the strategic mistake he had made when he spoke of language.
Because are there any Ukrainians today who are against the fact that the status of Ukrainian
as the only state language is strengthened, developed and provides those opportunities in which
the Ukrainian language should be, first of all, competitive, attractive and have other
qualities that could allow it? No! But at the same time, we cannot ignore or discriminate
against the Russian language and the language of other national minorities.
Moreover, he would not have succeeded, because the Constitution in article 10 has the status
and part 3 of article 10 says that the territory of Ukraine guarantees the free development,
use and protection of Russian and other languages of national minorities.
Why did he come, as you say, on Monday, before the second round, and told that he was
Russian-speaking? And who did not know that Mr. Poroshenko was Russian-speaking? Do you think
it is that, in different situations spoke in the Ukrainian language? I never spoke with him in
Ukrainian, only in Russian. Well, maybe it's not an indicator, but it means not just focus, not
just the attractiveness of a person, including in the use of language. This is a direct
indication that a person has it inside. Why are you ignoring this?
Yes, you must develop the Ukrainian language. You are the President of Ukraine, but you
should not allow disrespect, mockery and discrimination of other languages, including Russian.
And so this reaction is also a response to what he was doing. That's direct result of his
policies.
Mr. Zelensky, get right and do it! Then, if the Cabinet of Ministers does not listen to you
and sets its resolutions, and even more increases the cost of gas, the cost of utilities, block
its activities! Any decision of the Cabinet can be stopped, blocked and appealed to the
constitutional court for reasons of non-compliance with the Constitution! It's the President's
right! So do not talk about the fact that it is impossible!
And when we talk about reducing tariffs, you will study the structure of these tariffs. My
advice. Although, I do not advocate giving advice and this is not advice, and my vision. And
you ask about the pricing structure of utility tariffs, including the cost of gas. You'll see
that what's in there is props. And it's in the derivatives. About what, about what you said:
Rotterdam+... When this involves the cost of coal, and in parallel or, more precisely, directly
coal is electricity and is laid in tariffs. Dusseldorf + - the cost of gas. And it is laid in
the tariffs for gas, which means - for hot water and heat. And much more, where the derivative
is gas. That's all she wrote. No need to tell stories and send somewhere. It is necessary to
send to itself and as promised, to do so that it would be possible to improve life of our
people.
Vasily Golovanov: Then I also want to talk about gas and coal... If we make this
detour now, or pretend that we are not buying Russian gas, although we are buying Russian gas,
it is simply more expensive in Europe. Then why do we buy fuel? Why is our government so.
Viktor Medvedchuk: Because we buy Russian gas directly. In fact, look, I listened in
one of Your programs, in the "Ukrainian format" somewhere right after the second round, it
seems that you had a discussion, very interesting. Professionals told about it, but they do not
fully understand this scheme. I'm just saying it because I know it. But it said about Velky
kapushany. Look here - Russia, - Ukraine, but the Ukrainian border with Slovakia...That is, in
Europe, velki kapushany, where there is a so-called accounting station. What is done? What's
happening? Gas comes from the territory of Russia, comes to Ukraine - it is a gas
transportation system. It dissolves in this system and goes to different needs. We don't have a
line Russia - Europe on which there is the gas transit, which is operators, recipients and
consumers of Europeans.
No! He's spent here, but it automatically comes to this border and Wielkie Capuano should
count on the Ukrainian side, where they say the gas is out! There is 100 million cubic meters.
And the other counter, here, suggests that the gas came to Europe. So what did? You imagine the
Scam of this scheme. They closed this square. Moreover, this is not the worst thing... That's
when I listened to what was said in the "Ukrainian format", I thought, well, now... The person
who spoke, he, in principle, the professional. I thought he was gonna tell me what it was
about. And he says: "They there gas this drive. Maybe he doesn't even exist." No, not that.
They closed the circle. And this gas in one volume chases on this pipe. Why this is done? In
order to show on the counter that he went to Europe.
For example, his buyer, on paper, is a French operator, gas operator. It is the papers I
wrote - I got 100 million, because this counter is reflected and all - no complaints. And this
gas when came, it already here 100 million, and we already used it here, but bought allegedly
there. And then, when they say: here is the gas on the reverse. What reverse? What is the
reverse? If the gas goes in one direction, how can it go in the opposite direction? Think about
it! Well, gas goes to Europe, we put 89 billion there last year, the year before, left 94
billion there, it goes in one... How can you go, then stop, and go back? Or what? That is,
those who talk about it, just do not know, and those who "vtyuhivayut" us, trying to bend in
the understanding of all, to deceive. This is pure insanity.
It's not just a scheme. They also provide the price Dusseldorf+,1500 km. And these $42,
shoulder the logistics they put into the scheme. That is, in pricing - it's net earnings. Then
they are transferred into the rates and our people are paying. At attention. And so utility
costs are rising, because the cost of gas is growing.
Well I'm still not talking about fraud handled by the NAK "Naftogaz" and Ukrgazdobycha.
Because gas is produced, its cost there 2 700 - 2 900 UAH, up to a hundred dollars. And NAK
"Neftegaz" buys from ukrgasvydobuvannya it under 6 thousand. What is this 100 % profitability?
And where is it? In a poor, impoverished, economically underdeveloped country? 100%
profitability?
I can say: no, this is on the development! For development wells on production growth, as we
have said Groisman pathetic. It is as if he speaks out and says: "For 5 years we need to
increase production so that we do not buy anything." This, approximately, as you can say - it
is necessary to increase the retail space in the Vinnitsa market, here I understand. Here is
indeed for 5 years can be their increase in 2 times. But it is impossible to increase gas
production!
And where did you grow up in production? It produced 15.7 billion. In General, the country
produced 21 billion in 2014, and we have now produced 20.7 billion with private companies by
the end of 2018. So where is this increase in production? And where do you invest? What new
wells, new production? Groysman, who is talking about this, at least interested in this?
Vasily Golovanov: what does the message of the Russian Federation on the ban on the
entry of Russian oil and oil products into our country show us?
Viktor Medvedchuk: You put the question absolutely correctly. What does that mean? I,
Vasily, will expand your question, because the essence of the question is wider. We say that
Russia has imposed sanctions against Ukraine and banned the import of coal, petroleum products
and oil.
Well, about oil - this is a relative understanding, because oil from Russia has not been
supplied since 2007. And for this purpose there were the reasons in which mister Yanukovych and
many others is guilty. We will not talk about this now, but oil products and coal are another
issue. Now, this is a response. After all, what is the economic problem between Russia and
Ukraine? It consists in the fact that Ukraine at some stage joined the sanctions of the
European Union, and Russia introduced counter-sanctions against Ukraine.
Even earlier, we entered the free trade zone with the EU, thereby cutting off the path of
interaction and cooperation within the CIS zone and trade relations with Russia. All of this
has led to the complex that has existed in recent years. When we lose 7 billion export
potential of our products and services in the markets of the Russian Federation.
Now that we are there is limited, what caused such reaction of Russia. They took and banned
what is vital. We are an energy-dependent state. I can say that we depend on two States - on
Russia and Belarus, almost equally.
TRUMP: Well, I think it's incredible when you hear it. These are great reporters, all three,
and when you have them on your trail, that's a problem. These are people that should be getting
Pulitzers, not the ones that got the Pulitzers that got everything wrong.
If you listen to them, they got everything wrong. Go back and read some of their early and
mid articles. They didn't have a clue what was going on and they win Pulitzer Prizes. These are
the ones that should be winning.
It sounds like big stuff. It sounds very interesting with Ukraine. I just spoke to the new
president a little while ago, two days ago, and congratulated him on an incredible race.
Incredible run. A big surprise victory. That's 75 percent of the vote.
But that sounds like big, big stuff. I'm not surprised.
HANNITY: Mr. President, Ukraine is offering this evidence to the United States. Would you
like the United States -- with all this talk about collusion, they are saying they included on
behalf of Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2016. Does America need to see that information in
spite of all of the attacks against you on collusion?
TRUMP: Well, I think we do. And, frankly, we have a great new attorney general who has done
an unbelievable job in a very short period of time. And he is very smart and tough and I would
certainly defer to him. I would imagine he would want to see this.
People have been saying this whole -- the concept of Ukraine, they have been talking about
it actually for a long time. You know that, and I would certainly defer to the attorney
general.
And we'll see what he says about it. He calls them straight. That's one thing I can tell
you.
"... Neoliberalism is an integral part of this foreign policy agenda. It constitutes an all encompassing mechanism of economic destabilization. Since the 1997 Asian crisis, the IMF-World Bank structural adjustment program (SAP) has evolved towards a broader framework which consists in ultimately undermining national governments' ability to formulate and implement national economic and social policies. ..."
The world is at a dangerous crossroads. The United States and its allies have launched a military adventure which threatens
the future of humanity. Major military and covert intelligence operations are being undertaken simultaneously in the Middle East,
Eastern Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, Central Asia and the Far East. The US-NATO military agenda combines both major theater operations
as well as covert actions geared towards destabilizing sovereign states.
America's hegemonic project is to destabilize and destroy countries through acts of war, covert operations in support of terrorist
organizations, regime change and economic warfare. The latter includes the imposition of deadly macro-economic reforms on indebted
countries as well the manipulation of financial markets, the engineered collapse of national currencies, the privatization of State
property, the imposition of economic sanctions, the triggering of inflation and black markets.
The economic dimensions of this military agenda must be clearly understood. War and Globalization are intimately related. These
military and intelligence operations are implemented alongside a process of economic and political destabilization targeting specific
countries in all major regions of World.
Neoliberalism is an integral part of this foreign policy agenda. It constitutes an all encompassing mechanism of economic destabilization.
Since the 1997 Asian crisis, the IMF-World Bank structural adjustment program (SAP) has evolved towards a broader framework which
consists in ultimately undermining national governments' ability to formulate and implement national economic and social policies.
In turn, the demise of national sovereignty was also facilitated by the instatement of the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 1995,
evolving towards the global trading agreements (TTIP and TPP) which (if adopted) would essentially transfer state policy entirely
into the hands of corporations. In recent years, neoliberalism has extend its grip from the so-called developing countries to the
developed countries of both Eastern and Western Europe. Bankruptcy programs have been set in motion. Island, Portugal, Greece, Ireland,
etc, have been the target of sweeping austerity measures coupled with the privatization of key sectors of the national economy.
The global economic crisis is intimately related to America's hegemonic agenda. In the US and the EU, a spiralling defense budget
backlashes on the civilian sectors of economic activity. "War is Good for Business": the powerful financial groups which routinely
manipulate stock markets, currency and commodity markets, are also promoting the continuation and escalation of the Middle East war.
A worldwide process of impoverishment is an integral part of the New World Order agenda.
Beyond the Globalization of Poverty
Historically, impoverishment of large sectors of the World population has been engineered through the imposition of IMF-style macro-economic
reforms. Yet, in the course of the last 15 years, a new destructive phase has been set in motion. The World has moved beyond the
"globalization of poverty": countries are transformed in open territories,
State institutions collapse, schools and hospitals are closed down, the legal system disintegrates, borders are redefined, broad
sectors of economic activity including agriculture and manufacturing are precipitated into bankruptcy, all of which ultimately leads
to a process of social collapse, exclusion and destruction of human life including the outbreak of famines, the displacement of entire
populations (refugee crisis).
This "second stage" goes beyond the process of impoverishment instigated in the early 1980s by creditors and international financial
institutions. In this regard, mass poverty resulting from macro-economic reform sets the stage of a process of outright destruction
of human life.
In turn, under conditions of widespread unemployment, the costs of labor in developing countries has plummeted. The driving force
of the global economy is luxury consumption and the weapons industry.
The New World Order
Broadly speaking, the main corporate actors of the New World Order are
Wall Street and the Western banking conglomerates including its offshore money laundering facilities, tax havens, hedge funds
and secret accounts,
the Military Industrial Complex regrouping major "defense contractors", security and mercenary companies, intelligence outfits,
on contract to the Pentagon;
the Anglo-American Oil and Energy Giants,
The Biotech Conglomerates, which increasingly control agriculture and the food chain;
Big Pharma,
The Communication Giants and Media conglomerates, which constitute the propaganda arm of the New World Order.
There is of course overlap, between Big Pharma and the Weapons industry, the oil conglomerates and Wall Street, etc.
These various corporate entities interact with government bodies, international financial institutions, US intelligence. The state
structure has evolved towards what Peter Dale Scott calls the "Deep State", integrated by covert intelligence bodies, think tanks,
secret councils and consultative bodies, where important New World Order decisions are ultimately reached on behalf of powerful corporate
interests.
In turn, intelligence operatives increasingly permeate the United Nations including its specialized agencies, nongovernmental
organizations, trade unions, political parties.
What this means is that the executive and legislature constitute a smokescreen, a mechanism for providing political legitimacy
to decisions taken by the corporate establishment behind closed doors.
Media Propaganda
The corporate media, which constitutes the propaganda arm of the New World Order, has a long history whereby intelligence ops
oversee the news chain. In turn, the corporate media serves the useful purpose of obfuscating war crimes, of presenting a humanitarian
narrative which upholds the legitimacy of politicians in high office.
Acts of war and economic destabilization are granted legitimacy. War is presented as a peace-keeping undertaking.
Both the global economy as well as the political fabric of Western capitalism have become criminalized. The judicial apparatus
at a national level as well the various international human rights tribunals and criminal courts serve the useful function of upholding
the legitimacy of US-NATO led wars and human rights violations.
Destabilizing Competing Poles of Capitalist Development
There are of course significant divisions and capitalist rivalry within the corporate establishment. In the post Cold War era,
the US hegemonic project consists in destabilizing competing poles of capitalist development including China, Russia and Iran as
well as countries such as India, Brazil and Argentina.
In recent developments, the US has also exerted pressure on the capitalist structures of the member states of the European Union.
Washington exerts influence in the election of heads of State including Germany and France, which are increasingly aligned with Washington.
The monetary dimensions are crucial. The international financial system established under Bretton Woods prevails. The global financial
apparatus is dollarized. The powers of money creation are used as a mechanism to appropriate real economy assets. Speculative financial
trade has become an instrument of enrichment at the expense of the real economy. Excess corporate profits and multibillion dollar
speculative earnings (deposited in tax free corporate charities) are also recycled towards the corporate control of politicians,
civil society organizations, not to mention scientists and intellectuals. It's called corruption, co-optation, fraud.
Latin America: The Transition towards a "Democratic Dictatorship"
In Latin America, the military dictatorships of the 1960s and 1970s have in large part been replaced by US proxy regimes, i.e.
a democratic dictatorship has been installed which ensures continuity. At the same time the ruling elites in Latin America have remoulded.
They have become increasingly integrated into the logic of global capitalism, requiring an acceptance of the US hegemonic project.
Macro-economic reform has been conducive to the impoverishment of the entire Latin America region.
In the course of the last 40 years, impoverishment has been triggered by hyperinflation, starting with the 1973 military coup
in Chile and the devastating reforms of the 1980s and early 1990s.
The implementation of these deadly economic reforms including sweeping privatization, trade deregulation, etc. is coordinated
in liaison with US intelligence ops, including the "Dirty war" and Operation Condor, the Contra insurrection in Nicaragua, etc.
The development of a new and privileged elite integrated into the structures of Western investment and consumerism has emerged.
Regime change has been launched against a number of Latin American countries.
Any attempt to introduce reforms which departs from the neoliberal consensus is the object of "dirty tricks" including acts of
infiltration, smear campaigns, political assassinations, interference in national elections and covert operations to foment social
divisions. This process inevitably requires corruption and cooptation at the highest levels of government as well as within the corporate
and financial establishment. In some countries of the region it hinges on the criminalization of the state, the legitimacy of money
laundering and the protection of the drug trade.
The above text is an English summary of Prof. Michel Chossudovsky's Presentation, National Autonomous University of Nicaragua,
May 17, 2016. This presentation took place following the granting of a Doctor Honoris Causa in Humanities to Professor Chossudovsky
by the National Autonomous University of Nicaragua (UNAN)
"... If Zelenskii sees himself as the spark or leader of a wave of color revolutions in the former USSR, he will find the going with Russia tough, regardless of who the Russian president is ..."
"... Another black swan is that Ukraine now has a Jewish president. This is not evidence of the absence of anti-Semitism, which is robust among Ukraine's substantial number of ultranationalists and neofascists. Anti-semitism has been overshadowed by such radicals' laser-like focus of their xenophobia on ethnic Russians. ..."
"... The fact of a Jewish president -- in addition to the present PM being Jewish -- poses the risk of an uptick in anti-Semitism and in the appeal of the ultranationalist/neofascist message if Zelenskii fails to improve the economy, cut corruption, and/or appears to be 'caving in' to Russian or Western demands to the detriment of Ukraine's interests. ..."
"... The Jewish president will be a prime scapegoat in the case of such failure. These two dynamics – the inexperienced Zelenskii's possible failure and the potential political repercussions of his Jewish roots -- could tip the scales in favor of the ultranationalist wing of the Maidan-in-opposition and shape its calculus as to whether or not to undertake a coup, repeating what worked once in February 2014. ..."
... Zelenskii himself is likely to fight corruption, to be sure, but he is unlikely to challenge the ultranationalists,
neofascists, and their militarized combat organizations. ... Zelenskii is unlikely to offer concessions
that the DNR, LNR or Moscow will find acceptable for resolving the Donbass civil war.
Zelenskii's Victory and the Presidential Elections
Zelenskii's victory signified some decline in the acceptability overall in Ukraine of the
Galician/Western line backed by Poroshenko countrywide' fueled largely by a full rejection in
the east and south. Zelenskii made it a central point of his campaign to bring the ostracized
south and east back in to Ukraine and end the discrimination against the Russian language
fostered by Poroshenko legislation. Thus, Zelenskii won more than 80 percent of the vote in
each of the 11 more Russian-speaking regions in eastern and southern Ukraine and nearly 90
percent in several of them. Poroshenko took only nationalistic Lviv. In the rest of western
Ukraine won, in many of these regions only by a slim majority, but he won nevertheless. He even
took some 60 percent in Poroshenko's native Volhyn region (
https://elections.dekoder.org/ukraine/en?fbclid=IwAR36OdD3lrXL3EKKy9Zfdhk8k36Azgr6nNWLeYH3sYiYX9Ci51O86GVDhow
). To the extent Zelenskii received great support in the east, his election represents a desire
for an end of the slow-burning civil war in Donbass, of the east-west polarization inside the
country, and of alienation of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians as well as for a
normalization of Kiev's relations with Russia. Poroshenko's narrow but nevertheless defeat in
almost all the western regions reflects the Galicians disenchantment with corruption far more
than any significant rejection of Galician Ukrainian nationalism, ultrnationalism and
neofascism in the west.
... ... ...
The Nature of Maidan Ukraine's Hybrid Regime
However, the problem in Ukraine has often been less with its elections being unfree or
unfair ( https://gordonhahn.com/2015/06/21/one-day-in-the-life-of-ukrainian-democracy/
). Most often the problem has been with the rule of law, massive corruption, the theft of the
state by various powerful oligarchs, the lack of a cohesive national identity, and a deeply
polarized society. It is these aspects of Ukraine's authoritarian side, its 'stateness problem'
and political polarization and instability which are rarely understood in the West [see Gordon
M. Hahn, Ukraine Over the Edge: Russia, the West, and the 'New Cold War' (Jefferson:
McFarland, 2018)].
The absence of the rule of law in Maidan Ukraine was in full display on
the eve of the election as the siloviki chose sides in the vote. The SBU supported
Poroshenko by trumping up the noted fake news of hacked emails never shown but allegedly
showing that Zelenskii was Putin's Manchurian candidate ala 'Trump's collusion with the
Kremln.' Doing the bidding of Yiliya Tymoshenko's campaign, the MVD, headed by ultranationalist
Arsenii Avakov, uncovered Poroshenko vote buying schemes.
Similarly, the present and former
Ukrainian general prosecutors' charges of interference in corruption investigations by US Vice
President Joseph Biden and the present US ambassador to Ukraine underscored the point.
Also,
the release of former Maidan war hero Nadia Savchenko also demonstrated this quite clearly.
Either her arrest a little over a year ago for allegedly planning a massive terrorist attack
that would have left many Maidan Rada deputies and civilians dead was based on wholly trumped
up charges or some among the authorities are protecting an ultranationalist terrorist.
Ironically, three days after the presidential vote, a Kievan was arrested on the basis of
charges reminiscent of Russian law as many Maidan regime laws remind one of. Thus, the arrestee
was charged with spreading on the Internet calls for 'separatism' and the overthrow of the
Maidan regime that was established by an illegal and violent seizure of power (
https://vesti-ukr.com/kiev/334060-zhitelju-kievskoj-oblasti-hrozit-10-let-tjurmy-za-posty-v-sotssetjakh
).
A shocking level of official corruption has been characteristic of the Maidan regime's
oligarchical side and was demonstrated even more forcefully during the presidential campaign. Poroshenko's failure to divest himself or 'trustify'
his businesses established a fundamentally corrupt oligarch-presidency...
... ... ...
Historically
speaking, some in the west -- Stepan Bandera's OUN and UPA fascists -- were allied with the
Nazis in World War II; while the grandparents of many in the east fought for the Red Army
against Hitler's forces and after the war repressed the OUN and UPA Banderites. This translates
into a deep societal polarization with the west displaying considerable support for and
tolerance of Galician-Ukrainian ultra-nationalism and neofascism in domestic politics a
pro-Western foreign policy stance and the east supporting a more leftist, quasi-Soviet domestic
order and pro-Russian foreign orientation. This divided has been repeatedly reflected in
presidential and parliamentary elections throughout the history of post-Soviet Ukraine; hence
the political upheavals often surrounding national elections, in particular in the 2004 'Orange
revolution,' precursor to the 2013-14 Maidan revolt. This polarization has helped drive some of
the lack of rule of law, corruption, and stealing of the state as oligarchs scramble to protect
and expand their holdings on the background of deep political polarization between western
Ukraine's Galicia and southeastern Ukraine and regime shifts from western Ukrainian-dominated
governments to southeastern Ukrainian-dominated governments. All this explains and/or is
explained by the Maidan regime's birth event – its original sin -- the 20 February 2014
snipers' terrorist false flag massacre.
Weeks later, Zelenskii commented: "People whom came to power on blood are profiting on
blood" (www.pravda.com.ua/news/2019/02/26/7207718/). It appears he understands the essence of
the Maidan regime's original sin. This poses a grave threat to some of the most powerful men in
the regime including the likely organizer of the snipers' plot, Rada Chairman Andriy Parubiy,
and perhaps Poroshenko himself, who appears to have played a role in helping smuggle the
snipers out of Maidan Square, though he appears to have opposed the shooting as a video from
the Maidan headquarters demonstrates.
This issue has the potential to bring the whole
Western-backed house of cards tumbling down.
Maidan v. the People
The magnitude and centrality
of the terrorist snipers' attack coverup for both the Maidan regime and the West's 'new cold
war' narrative portend a bitter and brutal battle to prevent an objective investigation. Thus,
the election of the politically unknown Zelenskii and the prospects of his inauguration and
rule as president have sparked a cold civil war in Kiev. The Maidan regime's forces about to be
relegated to the opposition, particularly after the victory of Zelenskii's new political party
(Servant of the People in September's Rada elections, are poised and are already moving to do
almost everything and perhaps everything to prevent his assuming the powers in Ukraine's
semi-presidential system. Poroshenko and his allies and temporary allies in the Rada have
undertaken several first steps against Zelenskii and his presidency. The most important may be
the a draft law that would institute changes in the balance of power in the political system in
favor of the prime minister and Rada against the president's office. Many of the proposed
changes would empower the prime minister to a level nearly equal to that of the president.
Thus, Article 35 of the new law would require the president to nominate a candidate for the
post of prime minister indicated by a coalition of factions in the Rada. In other words, the
Rada would nominate prime ministerial candidates, and the president would simply submit the
same name much like the king or queen of England plays a purely formal role in the formation of
the UK cabinet
[https://samopomich.ua/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/project.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2QSRvRtMsWcWY-eR4ys0O6x0n_Doy21398U0VenM6J9jw21Hhy1E8sias
(from here on cited as 'Draft Law'), p. 16].
Similarly, the president would be deprived by
Article 36 in the new law of the power to independently submit to the Rada candidates for
nomination to the posts of defense minister and foreign minister, the candidate nomination of
which would have to be agreed upon before submission to the Rada again by a coalition of
deputies' factions ( Draft law, pp. 16-17) . These clauses in the new law appear to be a direct
violation of the Ukrainian Constitution's Article 106, which gives the President the
unrestricted power to make such nominations.
The Rada is also boosted by the draft law's
Article 85.1, which stipulates that in the event of the president's removal from office under
an impeachment process the Rada's chair will execute the office of the presidency (Draft law,
p. 42). This violates the Ukrainian Constitution's Article 112, which gives the role of acting
president in such a case to the PM. At the same time, the PM would receive a series of new
powers in the draft law. Article 39.3 of the draft law stipulates that the president "shall
hold mandatory consultations with the Prime Minister regarding the formation of the personnel
of the National Security and Defense Council" (SNBO), and Article 39.4 allows the Prime
Minister to "initiate a decision before the President on formation of the personnel" of the
SNBO and make changes to it (Draft law, p. 18).
Acting or temporary holders of the offices of
Defense Minister, Foreign Minister, SBU chairman, and National Bank head are to be nominated by
the PM under certain circumstances (Articles 30.4, 30.5, 40.6, and 42.5, respectively, Draft
law, pp. 16-17, 19, and 20, respectively). Also, under the draft law the PM would also receive
the new right to be consulted by the president in cases where two-thirds of a regional
parliament has voted 'no confidence' in the region's administration head, which allows the
president to dismiss him (Article 49. 3, Draft law, p. 24).
Although the President would retain
the power to submit nominations to the posts of Prosecutor General and SBU chair, there is no
mention of his power to appoint and dismiss regional prosecutors and SBU chiefs. The new law
also appears to deprive the Ukrainian President of his present power to appoint the membership
of the National Commission for Implementation of Regulation of Energy and Housing Services
(NKREKU), the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), and other regulators. Also,
the president would be barred from creating any state administrative bodies such as a
presidential apparatus or chancellery with powers anything more than advisory.
Thus under the
new law the office of the president is deprived of its most important power -- appointment of
the PM -- which now belongs to the majority in the Rada.
Thus, this new law on the presidency
if adopted by the Rada and signed by Poroshenko as he leaves office would effectively transform
Ukraine's semi-presidential system into a parliamentary republic with a powerful PM, whose
authority rivals that of the President.
In and of itself this is not problematic and could even
be regarded as a step in the direction of greater democracy in the sense of strong republican
rule by a legislature of elected representatives of the people, it becomes anti-democratic and
a violation of the rule of law by dint of the facts that several of the law's statutes violate
the constitution. More importantly perhaps, the law violates the spirit of election by
abrogating the recently expressed will of the people who elected a candidate to a particular
office of the president of Ukraine as it existed on the day of the election, with all the
powers the constitution vests in that office.
The imminent 'Maidan-in-opposition' has
undertaken a series of other highly questionable measures to prepare to block or hamper his
presidency. When presidential candidate Hrytsenko criticized the draft law on the presidency
days after its posting on the site of the Galicia-based nationalist party 'Self-Help', led by
the mayor of Lviv (Lvov) Andriy Sadoviy, the Lviv branch of the SBU opened an investigation
against his wife's opinion polling company (www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2019/04/24/7213427/ and
http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2019/04/24/7213432/
).
Although the delay is not prohibitive yet it risks preventing Zelenskii from calling new
Rada elections as soon as he assumes office as he has reportedly planned to do. Mid-term
elections cannot be called less than six months before the end of a Rada's convocation. The
present Rada's term ends in early November. The delay of the inauguration may also provide time
for investigative processes against Zelenskii to be completed and used to block his assumption
of office. Thus, three days after the election, the corrupt anti-corruption body, NABU, opened
an investigation int Zelenskii production company (
https://strana.ua/news/198188-nabu-nachalo-rassledovanie-po-kompanii-zelenskoho-iz-za-vozmozhnoj-rastraty-sredstv-hoskino-sytnik.html
).
The new draconian language law adopted by the Rada four days after the voting excludes from
civil service those not fluent in Ukrainian. Zelenskii is not fluent in Ukrainian, and
Poroshenko has vowed to sigh the law; one he himself helped draft and then submitted to the
Rada before the election. Tentative Conclusions and Some Black Swans The Ukraine is on the edge
of a constitutional crisis.
The country remains badly divided between the newly elected and at
present popular president and his support base in the east and south, on the one hand, and Maidan's outgoing president, government and Rada with its support base largely in the west. As
at the beginning of the Maidan protests in fall 2013, there are many Ukrainians who want
positive democratic change. Unfortunately, they are countered by a powerful
oligachic-ultranationalist coalition that has been stealing the state, dividing Ukrainians
along regional, ethnic, linguistic, and religious lines in order to stay in power, and is about
to be relegated to the position of the Maidan-in-opposition.
For now, Zelenskii is the new
Yanukovych minus the corruption and pro-Russian inclinations. His positive image with the
voters can be destroyed with new framing that can come with the ravaging of time in office as
the elan of the victory in the presidential election fades and by effective
Maidan-in-opposition propaganda. With Rada elections set for September, the first five-six
months of Zelenskii's presidency -- should Poroshenko and the Rada radicals allow it to
commence -- will be bogged down in a bitter power struggle that can easily spin out of control.
There is good reason to believe that the Rada leadership, the siloviki , and the
ultranationalists and neofascists in Ukraine's frequently uncivil society will be willing to
repeat a use of violence of February 2014 in order to preserve their power and avoid the risk
of Zelenskii investigations into their corruption and the Maidan's original sin of that
February 2014 snipers' terrorist attack. Zelenskii may very well forego a serious investigation
of the Maidan terrorist attack and a crackdown on the illegal armed formations and activity of
ultranationalists and neofascists like the National Corps and C14. A bridge too far for any
Ukrainian leader, given the weak state and powerful extremist element on the streets.
There are black swans on the horizon. One is Vladimir Putin. He 'welcomed' Zelenskii by
issuing a decree easing requirements for immigration to Russia and the receipt of Russian
passports and pension payments for residents in civil war-torn region of the separatist DNR and
LNR. In this way, he seemed to remind Zelenskii of Russia's now limited, albeit, direct
military presence in the war zone. He further signaled his intent to run a hard bargain by
refusing to congratulate Zelenskii on his presidential election victory unlike in 2014 when
Putin congratulated Poroshenko.
If Zelenskii sees himself as the spark or leader of a wave of color revolutions in the
former USSR, he will find the going with Russia tough, regardless of who the Russian president
is. Russians fear both revolution and foreign interference far more than they do Putin. More
importantly for Ukraine, such a stance will make a resolution of the Donbass conflict impossible.
Another black swan is that Ukraine now has a Jewish president. This is not evidence of the
absence of anti-Semitism, which is robust among Ukraine's substantial number of
ultranationalists and neofascists. Anti-semitism has been overshadowed by such radicals'
laser-like focus of their xenophobia on ethnic Russians.
The fact of a Jewish president -- in
addition to the present PM being Jewish -- poses the risk of an uptick in anti-Semitism and in
the appeal of the ultranationalist/neofascist message if Zelenskii fails to improve the
economy, cut corruption, and/or appears to be 'caving in' to Russian or Western demands to the
detriment of Ukraine's interests.
The Jewish president will be a prime scapegoat in the case of
such failure. These two dynamics – the inexperienced Zelenskii's possible failure and the
potential political repercussions of his Jewish roots -- could tip the scales in favor of the
ultranationalist wing of the Maidan-in-opposition and shape its calculus as to whether or not
to undertake a coup, repeating what worked once in February 2014.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
About the Author – Gordon M. Hahn, Ph.D., is a Senior Researcher at the
Center for Terrorism and Intelligence Studies (CETIS), Akribis Group, San Jose, California,
www.cetisresearch.org ; an expert
analyst at Corr Analytics, http://www.canalyt.com ; and an analyst at Geostrategic
Forecasting Corporation (Chicago), www.geostrategicforecasting.com .
Dr. Hahn is the author of the four books, most recently Ukraine Over the Edge: Russia,
the West, and the 'New Cold War . Previously, he has authored three well-received books:
The Caucasus Emirate Mujahedin: Global Jihadism in Russia's North Caucasus and Beyond
(McFarland Publishers, 2014), Russia's Islamic Threat (Yale University Press, 2007), and
Russia's Revolution From Above: Reform, Transition and Revolution in the Fall of the Soviet
Communist Regime, 1985-2000 (Transaction Publishers, 2002). He also has published numerous
think tank reports, academic articles, analyses, and commentaries in both English and Russian
language media.
Dr. Hahn also has taught at Boston, American, Stanford, San Jose State, and San Francisco
State Universities and as a Fulbright Scholar at Saint Petersburg State University, Russia and
has been a senior associate and visiting fellow at the Center for Strategic and International
Studies, the Kennan Institute in Washington DC, and the Hoover Institution.
This distant relative on Nikita Krushchev is a despicable and clueless neocon. She does not even understand that under
Poroshenko the standard of living of population dropped more then twice and changes for heating role more then 5 times.
Notable quotes:
"... Zelensky is far from the first charismatic non-politician to win political power in recent years. The most obvious example is the real-estate developer and reality-TV showman Donald Trump. ..."
"... Most Ukrainians now support radical changes to economic, social, and foreign policy. ..."
Ukraine Sends in the Clown Apr 30, 2019
Nina L. Khrushcheva Most Ukrainian voters
arguably know that the comedian Volodymyr Zelensky, whose only claim to fame up to now was playing a teacher-turned-president in
a popular TV series, will not be the real-life president of their dreams. So why did nearly three-quarters of them back him?
KYIV – In the 2000s, The West Wing was everybody's favorite television show about an aspirational US administration – one
that fought terrorism without waging war on an entire region or religion, refused to trample on the rule of law, and generally made
decisions that were in the country's best interest. Many wished the show's calm and collected fictional president, played by Martin
Sheen, could replace America's cowboy president, George W. Bush, and his war-mongering sidekick, Dick Cheney.
In a sense, that is exactly what is happening now in Ukraine. The comedian Volodymyr Zelensky, whose only claim to fame up to
now was playing a teacher-turned-president in the popular TV series Servant of the People , won the presidency in a landslide
earlier this month. But, far from the fantasy of an idealized president, this is yet another example of a distorted reality – all
too familiar to Ukrainians – in which characters, not leaders, define politics.
Zelensky is far from the first charismatic non-politician to win political power in recent years. The most obvious example is
the real-estate developer and reality-TV showman Donald Trump. But in Austria, Hungary, Italy, Russia, and elsewhere, characters
have also used populist rhetoric to appeal to ordinary people who feel ignored by the elites. Another comedian, Beppe Grillo, co-founded
Italy's Five Star Movement, which is now the senior government party, though he stepped aside in January 2018, weeks before the election
that brought his creation to power.
There are nuances to this trend. After Trump won the 2016 presidential election in the United States, I
recalled Brave New World , in which Aldous Huxley conjured a future in which humanity had been destroyed by ignorance
and lust for mindless entertainment. Trump, feasting on burgers as he binge-watches Fox News stories about himself, embodies this
disposition.
Whereas a combination of too much amusement and too little knowledge contributed to Americans' choice of Trump, Ukrainians were
reacting to politicians' betrayal of the ideals of the 2013-14 Maidan Square protests, which sought to get Ukraine out from underneath
Russia's thumb. Chief among the turncoats was President Petro Poroshenko, a Maidan hero who ended up as a manifestation of the old
oligarchic system. Most Ukrainians now support radical
changes to economic, social, and foreign policy.
Thus, with nothing but an appealing TV persona, Zelensky was able to convince voters that his inexperience would be a better bet
than another term of Poroshenko's corrupt leadership. Despite having no political team or discernable policy platform, he won 73%
of the vote – a share normally attained by authoritarians
who stifle their opponents and stuff ballot boxes.
... ... ...
Another Ukrainian friend, a middle-aged scientist, observed that Zelensky's most direct antecedent may be Andriy Danylko – Ukraine's
best-known entertainer, a musical comedian who performs in drag under the stage name Verka Serduchka. In 2007, Danylko tried, unsuccessfully,
to form his own political party.
According to this friend, Ukrainians' embrace of Zelensky was driven by the same revolutionary urge that fueled the protests in
2004 and 2013-14. While the pro-Western Tymoshenko would have delivered the change that Ukrainians want, he explained, this year
voters wanted even more to reject the existing system entirely. The fact that Trump is presiding over a booming US economy only strengthened
their willingness to gamble on a TV character.
But even Zelensky may not be the rebellious choice he seems to be. Some have questioned his relationships with oligarchs – in
particular Igor Kolomoisky, the owner of the TV channel that broadcasts his show. Many suggest that Kolomoisky effectively bought
the election so that he himself could rule Ukraine from behind the scenes....
... ... ...
Ukraine is a symptom, not a specimen. In a world that increasingly resembles Huxley's dystopia...
"... Deputy Chief Anton Hrushetskiy reported findings of 2004 respondents to the question "Which of the following should the president do in the first 100 days?" ..."
"... The list is meaningfully desperate and vengeful against state officials: a touch under 40% wish a slash in utility rates; 35.5% demand a removal of immunity for lawmakers, judges and the president; 32.4% wish for an opening of investigations and a speeding up of current ones into corruption-related crimes and abuses; 23.3% hope for commencing talks with Russia; 18.4% demand a reduction of wages of top officials. All this stands to reason: Zelenskiy offers something others have not: a tabula rasa upon which voters can impose their vision. In contrast, Poroshenko, candy billionaire with an acid aftertaste, offered the usual cluttering: Army, language, faith. ..."
"... Poroshenko offered an ideal target: divisive, army hugging entho-nationalist, with an anti-Russian fixation ..."
"... In the words of head spokesperson at Zelinskiy's election headquarters, Dmitry Razumkov, "The return of the occupied territories of the Donbass and Crimea must proceed exclusively on Ukraine's terms. Russia, as always, is trying to turn everything on its head and do everything backwards – by holding elections first." ..."
"... The stage in Ukraine has been going to seed for some years, manuring away in decay and poverty, bleeding in the Donbass region and plundered by self-enriching elites. ..."
"... For one, parliamentary elections are due in October, leaving the virgin premier with six months of potential obstruction. Poroshenko, for his part, promises to be a vulture in the galley, awaiting any slipups: "I am leaving office, but I want to firmly underline that I am not leaving politics." ..."
Hope is often a devalued currency, but its vigorous circulation can be gathered in the
measurements of public opinion by the Kyiv-based International Institute of Sociology (KIIS)
conducted this month. Deputy Chief Anton Hrushetskiy reported
findings of 2004 respondents to the question "Which of the following should the president
do in the first 100 days?"
The list is meaningfully desperate and vengeful against state officials: a touch under 40%
wish a slash in utility rates; 35.5% demand a removal of immunity for lawmakers, judges and the
president; 32.4% wish for an opening of investigations and a speeding up of current ones into
corruption-related crimes and abuses; 23.3% hope for commencing talks with Russia; 18.4% demand
a reduction of wages of top officials. All this stands to reason: Zelenskiy offers something
others have not: a tabula rasa upon which voters can impose their vision. In contrast,
Poroshenko, candy billionaire with an acid aftertaste, offered the usual cluttering: Army,
language, faith.
The broom for cleaning is being readied. Remarks had been made, some floated from the
quarters of Poroshenko, that the new administration would include elements of the old regime.
Former Finance Minister and advisor to Zelenskiy, Oleksandr Danyliuk, was
adamant on Ukraine's ICTV this would not be the case: "Regarding the comment that Volodymyr
Zelenskiy's new team will include old staff of the Presidential Administration, the Cabinet of
Ministers I'd like to say this is absolutely not true, this is one of the fake news and
bogeyman stories that your [Petro Poroshenko's] headquarters is spreading."
Political regulars and strategists have brought out their calculators and have been left
wanting. Moscow, along with other readers of political entrails, did not see this victory in
the offing. Poroshenko offered an ideal target: divisive, army hugging entho-nationalist, with
an anti-Russian fixation. He could therefore be, over time, worn down, his country packaged as
resoundingly anti-Semitic, fascist and hateful of the Soviet Union's exploits against Nazi
Germany.
Preference would have been for Yuriy Boyko, backed by the pro-Russian Viktor Medvedchuk.
The results did give their party 16% of the vote, making them second behind Zelenskiy's Servant
of the People, which received 26%. Not quite happy days, but perhaps less anxious ones.
From what can be gathered from the new president, some measure of rapprochement towards
their fraternal, giant neighbour might be in the offing, even if accompanied by what he terms
"a very powerful information war" to end the eastern conflict. Baby steps include lifting
restrictions on the use of Russian in the country, which would also entail an end to blocking
cultural exchanges and restrictions on accessing Russian social media networks. But to perceive
a total change on that front would be to wonder in the realms of fantasy. In the
words of head spokesperson at Zelinskiy's election headquarters, Dmitry Razumkov, "The
return of the occupied territories of the Donbass and Crimea must proceed exclusively on
Ukraine's terms. Russia, as always, is trying to turn everything on its head and do everything
backwards – by holding elections first."
The stage in Ukraine has been going to seed for some years, manuring away in decay and
poverty, bleeding in the Donbass region and plundered by self-enriching elites.
It took Zelenskiy to come to the fore by stepping off the screen and, quite literally, onto a live
stage. Whether he is capable of directing his own show, mastering his own brief, as it were,
will be a wonder.
For one, parliamentary elections are due in October, leaving the virgin
premier with six months of potential obstruction. Poroshenko, for his part, promises to be a
vulture in the galley, awaiting any slipups: "I am leaving office, but I want to firmly
underline that I am not leaving politics."
Binoy Kampmark was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, Cambridge. He lectures at
RMIT University, Melbourne. Email: [email protected] More articles by: Binoy Kampmark
"... A missile launched from Snezhnoye could not have inflicted damage to the Boeing's left side, and not a single element would have hit the aircraft's left wing and engine, said the Almaz-Antey experts. ..."
Dutch investigators have published a much-awaited final report into the causes of the MH17 plane crash in eastern Ukraine, while
Russian BUK producer Almaz-Antey has revealed the results of its experiments.
Here are eight crucial points from both reports.
Follow Live Updates
The Dutch Safety Board (DSB) has been leading
the investigation
into the causes of the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. The crash killed nearly 300 passengers and crew members on
July 17, 2014 in eastern Ukraine. The DBS investigation is aimed at providing technical details about the crash, while another probe
carried out by the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is expected to determine who was responsible for the incident by the end of this
year.
See the
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Almaz-Antey conducted research which included two experiments simulating
explosions, with the second one using a decommissioned Ilyushin Il‐86 aircraft, similar to a Boeing 777 in its aerodynamic, technical
and physical attributes, as well as its fuselage design. The company's detailed technical presentation of the findings on Tuesday
lasted for about three hours. Here are the three key conclusions they drew: 1.BUK 9М38 hit the plane The plane was hit by
an earlier generation of the 9M38 Buk missile complete with warhead 9N314 ("without I-beams"), Almaz-Antey said in its presentation
on Tuesday. According to the arms producer, the particles which hit the plane were cube-shaped, not bow-shaped. The last missile
of this type was produced in the Soviet Union in 1986, and its life span is 25 years including all prolongations. All missiles of
this type were decommissioned from the Russian Army in 2011, it said.
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Learn More 2. Missile
exploded on left side "The sub-munitions primarily damaged the left side of the MH17 Boeing, primarily its cockpit, left wing,
left engine, and the left side of the tail, " the company said.
3. Missile fired from Kiev-controlled area? Based on the angle of the damage to MH17, the BUK producer established that the
most probable location of the missile launch was the area to the south of the village of Zaroshchenskoe in the Donetsk region in
eastern Ukraine. The arms producer refuted earlier claims that the missile had been launched from Snezhnoy, controlled by rebel forces
and located near Torez – the MH17 crash site.
A missile launched from Snezhnoye could not have inflicted damage to the Boeing's left side, and not a single element would have
hit the aircraft's left wing and engine, said the Almaz-Antey experts.
The Dutch Safety Board said on Tuesday that it would study
the results of the two experiments presented by BUK manufacturer Almaz-Antey, adding that the MH17 investigation will not be
completed in 2015. LI
The intensity and sophistication of propaganda campaign, as well as the fact that it was started immediately raised really
strong suspicions about possible western involvement. But if there is a Western trace then the missile should probably be fired for
aircraft not from the ground.
The MH17 case shocked the world as it happened and caused an escalation of
the war in Ukraine. Although many accusations have been leveled over responsibility for the
tragedy, the panel investigating the incident continues to search for the identities of the
perpetrators. However, all focus has centered around the culprits being either Ukrainian or
Russian, both of whom did not have incentive to further aggravate the Ukrainian conflict.
An examination of the facts, the connections of various state and non-state actors pushing
disinformation about MH17 along with knowledge about historical intelligence playbooks and foreign
mercenary involvement in Ukraine would in fact suggest that the party responsible for shooting the
aircraft down may have been a team with ties to transatlantic American groups allied with certain
Western European interests.
I. Investigation Results
In 2014, the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) published its
initial findings
as part of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) seeking to determine who was at
fault for the attack on MH17. These findings established that a BUK 9M38-series missile was fired
at MH17 and that the missile was shot from somewhere inside east Ukraine in an area where control
was contested by government and rebel forces. At the same time, BUK missile producer Almaz-Antey
gave a
press conference
where they stated that based on the shape of the shrapnel particles which hit
MH17, the missile prototype was last produced by the Soviet Union in 1986. Since the missiles have
a life span of 25 years, they were decommissioned by the Russian Army in 2011.
In 2016,
Stratfor
released analysis of satellite imagery from DigitalGlobe that they claimed showed the missile
launcher which fired the BUK at MH17. As
Disobedient
Media
has previously reported, DigitalGlobe is an American vendor of satellite imagery founded
by a scientist who worked on the US military's
Star
Wars
ICBM defense program under President Ronald Reagan. DigitalGlobe began its existence in
Oakland, CA and was seeded with money from Silicon Valley sources and corporations in North
America, Europe and Japan.
Headquartered
in
Westminster CO, DigitalGlobe works extensively with
defense
and intelligence programs
. In 2016, it was
revealed
that
DigitalGlobe was working with CIA chipmaker NVIDIA and
Amazon
Web Services
to create an AI-run satellite surveillance network known as
Spacenet
.
Their photos have repeatedly been used in propaganda attempts to undermine negotiations between
North Korea and the United States.
In May 2018, the JIT gave an
update
on their
investigation where they "presumed" that the BUK missile which was used against MH17 came from the
Russian 53rd Anti Aircraft Missile brigade. This presumption appears to be a rehash of claims made
by "independent" investigative organization
Bellingcat
in
2014. Nonetheless, investigators left open the possibility that the missile had been
fired by another party
.
In September 2018, the Russian military gave a
press conference
where they said the missile that shot down MH17 came from a Ukrainian army arsenal. This belief was
based on a study of military archives after the JIT had made the serial number of the missile
public. The JIT
responded
that they would need Russia to submit information supporting their claims, despite
the fact that Dutch investigators could have also reached out to Ukrainian authorities in an
attempt to verify whether or not the serial number was in fact from a missile part transferred
during the Soviet era.
II. Nation-State Narrative Pushing
In the aftermath of the JIT's 2018 update,
the governments of the Netherlands and Australia issued a
statement
blaming
Russia for the incident. They were
supported
by
Britain's Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, who echoed a previous
British
intelligence report
claiming without evidence that they also knew the Russian military
"supplied and subsequently recovered" the missile launcher. This manner of nation-state propaganda
has pervaded the investigation process since MH17 went down in 2014 and does not match the
assertions of the JIT, who have consistently left open the possibility that a party other than
Russia was responsible.
It is little surprise to see the Netherlands working in lockstep with the United Kingdom and
Australia, who are both members of the
UKUSA
Agreement
popularly known as Five Eyes (FVEY). The UK in particular has been shown to have been
involved with operations alongside the Netherlands. Both the British and Dutch governments have
been
tied to Cheollima Civil Defense
, who sought a coup in North Korea before they were targeted by
American law
enforcement
.
Integrity
Initiative
, an organization supported financially by UK intelligence and the Foreign Office,
also maintained a
Netherlands
cluster
. Members of this cluster include
Yevhen Fedchenko
,
the Ukrainian co-founder and chief editor of stopfake.org and multiple members of
The Hague Centre for Strategic Studies
(HCSS), an "independent" think tank that works with the
Dutch Ministries of Security and Justice, Foreign Affairs and Defense as well as NATO. British
intelligence assets have also been exposed among the staff of the
Voice of Europe
, a right wing publication located in the Netherlands.
Interestingly,
Malaysia
, whose aircraft was shot down, has said that there is no conclusive evidence showing
that Russia was responsible for downing MH17. The
US State Department
additionally declined to issue a statement they had prepared in 2018 criticizing Russia's alleged
role in the event.
III. Intent
In criminal law, establishing intent to commit the crime in question is often an essential
element to convicting a guilty party . In the case of MH17, neither Russia or Ukraine had an
incentive to shoot down the airliner. The event dashed any immediate hopes of a "
Novorussia
"
state or an
early end
to the Ukrainian war. It similarly created a disadvantage to Ukraine, who has lost
thousands
of their
own citizens in the conflict due to its failure to conclude quickly. Neither country has a good
cause to continue fighting for as long as they have. The MH17 tragedy ensured that both countries
would remain mired in a struggle.
Both parties
mutually denied
involvement in the attack. Russia's kneejerk reaction was to incorrectly claim
a
Ukrainian jet
was
responsible, likely because of
accusations
that
air-to-air missiles had brought down Ukrainian military aircraft in recent days. The Russian
information warfare strategy did not take into account that
Western media
and certain
Ukrainian officials
were already blaming a BUK launcher as the cause for the attack. This kind
of confusion and failure to prepare narratives is a sign that Russian officials did not anticipate
the incident beforehand.
Europeans and American factions who support initiatives such as the European Union and NATO do
have such a cause. Confrontation between Ukraine and Russia serves not only as a distraction to
Russia, but
pushes
Ukraine into the arms of Western interests
.
IV. British Intelligence Propaganda Efforts
The pervasive involvement of British intelligence propaganda operations surrounding the MH17
incident further indicates that European and allied American groups are using the incident to stoke
the Ukrainian conflict. British website
Bellingcat
was founded after the downing of MH17 and immediately began to focus on providing
"evidence" they hoped would be of value to investigators. It would appear that their efforts have
been met with success after the JIT appeared to lend credence to some of their claims that the BUK
missile used against MH17 came from the Russian military.
Leaks from 2018 have established, however, that Bellingcat is a propaganda operation with ties
to organizations funded by British intelligence.
Documents
from the Integrity Initiative list both Bellingcat and the Atlantic Council, a think
tank known for engaging in
pay-to-play behavior
with foreign donors, as "partner organizations."
Bellingcat author
Dan Kaszeta
, who was involved with narrative formation surrounding the
Skripal assassination
attempt
, was forced to issue an
unconvincing denial
that he worked for British intelligence after it emerged that he also wrote for Integrity
Initiative. Integrity Initiative's now-censored
website
itself
featured a page dedicated to combatting what they branded as "disinformation" surrounding MH17.
In addition to spreading propaganda in Europe, Bellingcat also runs operations targeting other
locations as well. Canada-based Venezuelan anti-government blog
In
Venezuela
is run by a Bellingcat member. The organization has also promoted
Bana Alabed
, a
Syrian girl who supposedly worked with her English-speaking mother in Aleppo to send out perfectly
worded tweets requesting NATO intervention in Syria during the siege of the city by government
forces.
The pervasive involvement of the Integrity Initiative-connected Bellingcat in pushing
pro-British propaganda into the MH17 investigation process provides a strong indication that
official narratives about the tragedy are inaccurate.
V. Clues To Identity Of Perpetrators
If neither Ukrainian or Russian forces were responsible for the downing of MH17, who else could
be?
Creating false attribution during military attacks is a very old tactic. The
Gleiwitz incident
at the start of Work War Two and the
Gulf of Tonkin
are
two historical examples of occasions where false attribution occurred for political purposes. In
the 1960's, the United States looked seriously at staging incidents of harassment or outright
attacks against civilian airliners as part of
Operation Northwoods
.
The attacks would be falsely attributed to the Cuban government by using procured MiG fighters or
creating replicas that would fool observers.
Internal documents
from the CIA show a number of configurations that would withstand varying
degrees of scrutiny were being considered.
Interestingly, the JIT used a
US-made missile
in tests meant to model the impact to MH17. BUK producer Almaz-Antey claimed
that this meant the missile differed from their version in crucial features such as flight path.
There is also evidence that American mercenaries were on the ground in parts of eastern Ukraine
that were held by rebel forces as fighting intensified in the months leading up to the MH17 crash.
In March 2014,
Bild am
Sonntag
cited German government sources who claimed that over 400 American mercenaries working
for Academi affiliate
Greystone
were operating in Ukraine. The article was sparked by
videos
which had
recently emerged online showing armed men said to be Americans on the streets on Donetsk, Ukraine.
Academi issued a
statement
denying that any of their direct employees were in Ukraine but did not comment on the
nature of their relationship to Greystone.
On May 4, 2014,
Bild
am Sonntag
claimed that CIA and FBI agents were in Kiev to "advise" the Ukrainian government,
citing unnamed German security sources. The next day,
The
Independent
noted that locals in east Ukraine believed British or US forces might be active in
the region after discovering items such as a British military jacket along with American rations
and ammunition casings.
The evidence that Western mercenaries were present in Ukraine during the months leading up to
the downing of MH17 should not be discounted and merits serious examination by investigators.
Russian mercenaries
have created headaches for their home nation in locations such as Syria due
to potentially taking contracts for private clients while deployed in conflict zones. The
involvement of Americans in Ukraine similarly raises questions about whether or not their services
could have been exploited to aggravate an already contentious conflict that did not benefit either
Ukraine or Russia.
Given the heavy involvement of British intelligence in narrative formation surrounding MH17 and
clear attempts to induce the JIT to adopt the research of intelligence-connected investigative
groups one must ask if the international panel investigating the case is missing the bigger picture
by focusing on Ukraine and Russia alone. The evidence in fact points to a far different reality
than the one presented by the international media. Will the JIT seek true justice? Or will they
give the world easy and expected answers to their questions about MH17?
Tags
Politics
Comedian Volodymyr Zelensky won the Ukrainian presidential elections Sunday with over 73
percent of the vote, in a massive repudiation of the incumbent president, Petro Poroshenko, and
the imperialist-orchestrated 2014 coup that brought him to power.
The "chocolate oligarch" Poroshenko became president in the wake of the operation in
February 2014 that toppled the pro-Russian government of Viktor Yanukovich. Behind the coup
stood the major imperialist powers, above all the US and Germany. Basing themselves on sections
of the Ukrainian oligarchy and upper middle class, they mobilized fascist forces to install a
puppet regime that would be immediately subservient to their economic interests and war
preparations against Russia.
The bourgeois media hailed this fascist-led coup as a "democratic revolution." They were
joined by the middle-class left, including organizations such as the now-defunct International
Socialist Organization, which systematically worked to downplay the role played by the extreme
right and the US State Department in the creation of this "revolution."
The results of the 2014 coup for the working class have been nothing less than
catastrophic. In the past five years, the Poroshenko regime has stood at the forefront of the
imperialist military buildup against Russia. Ukrainian military spending has risen to a
staggering 6 percent of GDP.
The systematic ratcheting up of tensions with Russia by the Kiev regime, most recently with
its reckless provocation in the Azov Sea, have dramatically heightened the danger of a
full-scale war in Europe, which could quickly escalate into another world war. The ongoing
civil war in the Eastern Ukraine has cost the lives of over 13,000 people.
At the same time, the Ukrainian oligarchy has undertaken the most far-reaching attacks on
the already low living standards of the Ukrainian working class since the restoration of
capitalism. Almost one million Ukrainians are now living on the brink of starvation; tens of
thousands are left to freeze in the winter .
For the implementation of these policies, the Poroshenko regime mobilized fascist forces
such as the notorious Azov battalion. The glorification of the Nazi collaborators of the UPA
and the OUN-B, which massacred thousands of Jews, Poles and Ukrainians during World War II, has
become official state policy. References to communism and symbols of the Soviet Red Army, which
defeated the Nazis in the war, have been criminalized. Russian artists and works of art have
been banned from entering the country.
It is these conditions that propelled the vast majority of the Ukrainian population to
either abstain from the elections -- the voter turnout was just 62 percent -- or vote for
Zelensky. Poroshenko was unable to garner any significant support outside a small province in
West Ukraine and the district in Kiev where the country's super rich reside.
Yet whatever his appeals to antiwar sentiments and the enormous anger about social austerity
during the campaign, Zelensky will defend the interests of the Ukrainian oligarchy against the
working class, and work in alliance with imperialism.
Throughout the entire election campaign, Zelensky deliberately concealed his real political
and economic agenda. He instead relied almost exclusively on demagogic appeals to the
widespread hatred of Poroshenko. During the campaign, Zelensky made promises to enter direct
negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin for a peaceful settlement of the war in East
Ukraine. Yet in an interview published days before the election, he called Putin an "enemy" and
stated that it was "perfectly fine and great" that people considered the Nazi collaborator
Bandera as a "hero."
On April 12, Zelensky met with French President Emmanuel Macron. His team has hired a PR
firm in Washington to arrange meetings with officials of the Trump administration and
influential think tank figures. Zelensky also maintains close connections to the oligarch Ihor
Kolkomoisky, and now seeks to work together with Mikheil Saakashvili, the former president of
Georgia, who had been installed through a US-backed "color revolution."...
A clown beat a high profile member of the established political class, due most likely to the
voters being disgusted by said political class? Uhmm, where have we seen this before?
"... The truth is, that a foreign government did indeed meddle in the American Presidential election, in a failed attempt to fix the outcome, but it was not Russia. It was the City of London, and the Five Eyes imperial intelligence services of the British Commonwealth, along with treasonous, "Tory" American elements. If that admission is forced to the surface, through the vigorous actions of all that oppose the presently dominant Big Lie tyranny, that revelation will shock and liberate people all over the world. The mental stranglehold of "fake news" media outlets can be permanently broken. That is the task of the next days and weeks. ..."
"... Apart from documenting the presence of "former" British intelligence agent Christopher Steele, former MI6 head Sir Richard Dearlove, and former GCHQ head Robert Hannigan at the center of the Russiagate campaign against President Trump for the past several years, we must, in order to expose this successfully, identify not only what was actually done and who was doing it, but the deeper policy motivation: why it was done. ..."
"... President Donald Trump has no vested interest in protecting the British "special relationship." From his second day in office, Trump declared that he would clean out the intelligence agencies. If Trump were to do that, however, the real, tragic history of America's last 50 years would be exhumed from that swamp. Shining a light into that darkness would illuminate the world. The American people would stop playing Othello to the City of London's Iago. They would denounce the British "special relationship," never again to fight imperial wars for the greater glory of the British Empire. They would learn the true story of Vietnam, of Iraq 1991 and Iraq 2003, of Libya 2011, and many other conflicts, special operations, and assassinations. The American people would know the truth, and the truth would set them free. ..."
"... The current insurrection against the United States Presidency is part of a global strategic battle: will a conspiracy of republican forces overcome the modern day British imperial system, centered in the hot money centers of the City of London and Wall Street, or will the oligarchical system once again triumph, immiserating all but the very wealthy? That is the real issue of the insurrection against the maverick American president being conducted by the London and NATO-centered enforcers of the old world. To paraphrase the American Declaration of Independence, ..."
"... According to CIA Director John Brennan's Congressional testimony, the British began complaining loudly about candidate Trump and Russia in late 2015. Brennan's statements were echoed in articles in The Guardian . According to Brennan, intelligence leads about Trump and Russia had been forwarded to Brennan from both British intelligence and from Estonia. ..."
"... This task force targeted Trump campaign volunteers Carter Page and George Papadopoulos in entrapment operations on British soil, using British agents, during the spring and summer of 2016. ..."
"... Hannigan abruptly resigned from GCHQ shortly after the election, sparking widespread speculation that the British were making an attempt at damage control. ..."
"... In 2016, the Manafort investigation migrated to the Democratic National Committee with direct assistance provided by Ukrainian state intelligence. This effort was led by Alexandra Chalupa, an admirer of Stepan Bandera and other heroes of Nazi history in Ukraine. Chalupa also had deep connections to British-oriented networks at the U.S. State Department. ..."
"... The final nail in this case has been provided by The Hill 's John Solomon. He says that Steele told former Associate Attorney General Bruce Ohr about the sources for the dirty dossier. According to Solomon, Ohr's notes reveal one main source, a former senior Russian intelligence official living in the United States. But, as anyone familiar with the territory would know, there is no such retired senior Russian intelligence official living in the United States whose entire life is not controlled by the CIA. ..."
"... As a result of Congressional investigations of Russiagate, it has become abundantly clear that the British operation against Trump was aided and abetted by the Obama White House, the State Department, the CIA, the FBI, and personalities associated with the National Endowment for Democracy. ..."
"... Out of the Ukraine coup, an entire military-centered propaganda apparatus arose, first through NATO, and then out from there to military units and diplomatic centers in the U.S., Europe, and Britain, to run low intensity operations, and black propaganda, against Russia. ..."
"... The British end of the operation includes the Integrity Initiative, the 77th Brigade, and NATO's Strategic Communications Center. In the United States, the Integrity Initiative has been integrated into the Global Engagement Center at the U.S. State Department. Most certainly, this operation is poised again to intervene in the U.S. elections; the British House of Lords have stated explicitly, in their December 2018 report, British Foreign Policy in a Shifting World Order, that Donald Trump must not be re-elected. ..."
"... This is why the British are yelping that under no circumstances can the classified documents concerning their role in the attempted coup against Donald Trump be declassified. It would end their leverage over the United States and much of Europe. That is why these documents must indeed be declassified, and parallel investigations by citizens and government officials concerned with ending the imperial system, otherwise known as the current "war party," must begin in earnest. ..."
"... Why did the DNC not allow the FBI to investigate the so-called" Russian hacked" emails? Rather, they hire CrowdStrike did you know: ..."
"... War with Afghanistan was Obama's payoff to the MIC, just as Russia is now Trump's payoff. ..."
"... The important truth about the emails is in their authenticity and in the contents. No one has even attempted to claim that they are not authentic or that the contents we've seen are other than the actual contents of the authentic messages. ..."
"... That is what i think. People should not concentrate on how, who and where. This is just a smokescreen to avoid talking about the content of the emails and Hillary Clinton's disgusting actions. She is a criminal and a murderess just like Obama and Tony Blair are lyers and mass murderers. ..."
The British Role in 'Russiagate' Is About to Be Fully Exposed April 8, 2019
20190408-russiagate-exposed-brits.pdf
The "fake news" media has now dropped its pretense of having ever had any intention of allowing the truth -- as documented in
U.S. Attorney General Barr's summary of Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller's report, exonerating President Donald Trump of having
"conspired or coordinated with the Russian government" -- to thoroughly refute the Russiagate "Big Lie." Soon, however, it is certain
that the deliberate, British Intelligence-originated, military-grade disinformation campaign carried out against the United States,
including to this day, will be exposed.
The truth is, that a foreign government did indeed meddle in the American Presidential election, in a failed attempt to fix
the outcome, but it was not Russia. It was the City of London, and the Five Eyes imperial intelligence services of the British Commonwealth,
along with treasonous, "Tory" American elements. If that admission is forced to the surface, through the vigorous actions of all
that oppose the presently dominant Big Lie tyranny, that revelation will shock and liberate people all over the world. The mental
stranglehold of "fake news" media outlets can be permanently broken. That is the task of the next days and weeks.
"It's hard to find a black cat in a dark room, especially if there is no cat," says the Chinese proverb. Yet, although the Mueller
report was called a "nothing burger," it was not: it still presented the potentially lethal lie that twelve Russian gremlins, code-named
Guccifer 2.0, hacked the DNC. Sundry media meatheads thus continue to blog and broadcast about "what else is really there."
The false Russian hack story, still being repeated, marches on, undeterred, like the emperor without any clothes. One lame-brained
variation, promoted in order to cover up the British role, states that Hillary Clinton, rather than Trump, colluded with the Russians.
It is being repeated by Republicans and Democrats alike, some of them malicious, some of them confused, and all of them completely
wrong. The media, such as the failed New York Times and various electronic media, must be forced to either admit the truth,
or be even more thoroughly discredited than they already have been. They must stop their constant repetition of this Joseph Goebbels-like
Big Lie. There must be a vigorous dissemination of the truth by all those journalists, politicians, activists and citizens that love
truth more than their own assumptions, including about President Trump, or other dearly-held systems of false belief.
Apart from documenting the presence of "former" British intelligence agent Christopher Steele, former MI6 head Sir Richard
Dearlove, and former GCHQ head Robert Hannigan at the center of the Russiagate campaign against President Trump for the past several
years, we must, in order to expose this successfully, identify not only what was actually done and who was doing it, but the deeper
policy motivation: why it was done.
A New Cultural Paradigm
The world is actually on the verge of ending the military conflicts among the major world powers, such as Russia, China, the United
States, and India. These four powers, and not the City of London, are the key fulcrum around which a new era in humanity's future
will be decided. A new monetary and credit system brought into being through these four powers would foster the greatest physical
economic growth in the history of humanity. In addition, discussions involving Italy working with China on the industrialization
of the African continent (discussions which could soon also involve the United States) show that sections of Europe want to join
China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and leave the dying trans-Atlantic financial empire behind.
The recent announcement of a United States commitment to return to the Moon by 2024 can, in particular, become the basis for a
proposal to other nations -- for example, China, Russia, and India, all of whom are space powers of demonstrated capability -- to
resolve their differences on Earth in a higher, joint mission. As Russia's Roscosmos Director Dmitry Rogozin said in a recent interview:
"I am a fierce proponent of international cooperation, including with Americans, because their country is big and technologically
advanced, and they can make good partners Especially since personal and professional relations between Roscosmos and NASA at the
working level are great."
There is also the possibility of ending the danger of thermonuclear war. President Trump, speaking on April 4 of the prospects
for world peace, stated:
"Between Russia, China, and us, we're all making hundreds of billions of dollars worth of weapons, including nuclear, which is
ridiculous. I think it's much better if we all got together and didn't make these weapons those three countries I think can come
together and stop the spending and spend on things that are more productive toward long-term peace."
This is a statement of real importance. Such an outlook is a rejection of the "perpetual crisis/perpetual war" outlook of the
Bush-Obama Administration, a four-term "war presidency" which was abruptly, unexpectedly ended in 2016. The British were not amused.
It is to stop this new cultural paradigm, pivoted on the Pacific and the potential Four Powers alliance, that British imperial
forces have deployed. The 2016 election of President Trump, and his personal friendship with President Xi Jinping and desire to work
with President Putin, are an intolerable strategic threat to the eighteenth-century geopolitics of the British empire. They have
repeatedly used Russiagate to disrupt the process of deliberation among Presidents Xi, Trump, and Putin, thus increasing the danger
of war. Russiagate, in the interest of international security, must be ended by exposing it for the utter fraud that it is.
The Truth Set Free
President Donald Trump has no vested interest in protecting the British "special relationship." From his second day in office,
Trump declared that he would clean out the intelligence agencies. If Trump were to do that, however, the real, tragic history of
America's last 50 years would be exhumed from that swamp. Shining a light into that darkness would illuminate the world. The American
people would stop playing Othello to the City of London's Iago. They would denounce the British "special relationship," never again
to fight imperial wars for the greater glory of the British Empire. They would learn the true story of Vietnam, of Iraq 1991 and
Iraq 2003, of Libya 2011, and many other conflicts, special operations, and assassinations. The American people would know the truth,
and the truth would set them free.
The current insurrection against the United States Presidency is part of a global strategic battle: will a conspiracy of republican
forces overcome the modern day British imperial system, centered in the hot money centers of the City of London and Wall Street,
or will the oligarchical system once again triumph, immiserating all but the very wealthy? That is the real issue of the insurrection
against the maverick American president being conducted by the London and NATO-centered enforcers of the old world. To paraphrase
the American Declaration of Independence,
"The history of the present Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the
undermining of the United States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
DOCUMENTATION
While Robert Mueller found that there was "no collusion" between Donald Trump or the Trump Campaign and Russia, he also filed
two indictments regarding alleged Russian interference in the 2016 election. The first alleges that 12 members of Russian Military
Intelligence hacked the DNC and John Podesta and delivered the purloined files to WikiLeaks for strategic publication before the
July 2016 Democratic National Convention and in October 2016, one month before the election. The second indictment charges the Internet
Research Agency, a Russian internet merchandising and marketing firm, with running social media campaigns in the U.S. in 2016 designed
to impact the election. When the fuller version of the Mueller report becomes public, it is certain to recharge the claims of Russian
interference based on the so-called background "evidence" supporting these indictments.
The good news, however, is that investigations in the United States and Britain, have unearthed significant contrary evidence
exposing British Intelligence, NATO, and, to a lesser extent, Ukraine, as the actual foreign actors in the 2016 U.S. presidential
election. We provide a short summary of the main aspects of that evidence to spark further investigations of the British intelligence
networks, entities, and methods at issue, internationally. More detailed accounts concerning specific aspects of what we recite here
can be found on our website.
The Russian Hack That Wasn't
The Veterans Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, an association of former U.S. intelligence officials, have demonstrated that
the Russian hack of the DNC alleged by Robert Mueller, was more likely an internal leak,
rather than a hack conducted
over the internet. William Binney, who conducted the main investigations for the VIPS, spent 30 years at the National Security Agency,
becoming Technical Director. He designed the sorts of NSA programs that would detect a Russian hack if one occurred. Binney conducted
an actual forensic examination of the DNC files released by WikiLeaks, and the related files circulated by the persona Guccifer 2.0,
who Robert Mueller claims is a GRU creation. Binney has demonstrated that the calculated transfer speeds and metadata characteristics
of these files are consistent with downloading to a thumb drive or storage device rather than an internet-based hack. This supports
the account by WikiLeaks of how it obtained the files. According to WikiLeaks and former Ambassador Craig Murray, they were obtained
from a person who was not a Russian state actor of any kind, in Washington, D.C. WikiLeaks offered to tell the Justice Department
all about this, and actual negotiations to this effect were proceeding in early 2017, when Senator Mark Warner and FBI Director James
Comey acted to sabotage and end the negotiations.
Further, as opposed to the hyperbole in the media and in Robert Mueller's indictment, analysis of the Internet Research Agency's
alleged "weaponization" of Facebook in 2016 involved
a paltry total of $46,000 in Facebook
ads and $4,700 spent on Google platforms . In an election in which the major campaigns spend tens of thousands of dollars every
day on these platforms, whatever the IRA thought it was doing in its amateurish and juvenile memes and tropes was like throwing a
stone in the ocean. Most of these activities occurred after the election and never mentioned either candidate. The interpretation
that these ads were designed to draw clicks and website traffic, rather than influence the election, must be considered.
The "evidence" for Mueller's GRU hacking indictment was provided, in part, by CrowdStrike, the DNC vendor that originated the
claims that the Russians had hacked that entity. CrowdStrike is closely associated with the Atlantic Council's Digital Research Lab
(DRL), an operation jointly funded by NATO's Strategic Communications Center and the U.S. State Department, to counter Russian "hybrid
warfare." CrowdStrike has been caught more than once falsely attributing hacks to the Russians and the Atlantic Council's DRL is
a font of anti-Russian intelligence operations.
The British Target Trump
According to CIA Director John Brennan's Congressional testimony, the British began complaining loudly about candidate Trump
and Russia in late 2015. Brennan's statements were echoed in articles in The Guardian . According to Brennan, intelligence
leads about Trump and Russia had been forwarded to Brennan from both British intelligence and from Estonia. The former head
of the Russia Desk for MI6 and protégé of Sir Richard Dearlove, Christopher Steele, fresh from working for British Intelligence,
the FBI, and U.S. State Department in the 2014 Ukraine coup, assembled in 2016 a phony dossier called Operation Charlemagne, claiming
widespread Russian interference in European elections, including in the Brexit vote. By the spring of 2016, Steele was contributing
to a British/U.S. intelligence task force on the Trump Campaign which had been convened at CIA headquarters under John Brennan's
direction.
This task force targeted Trump campaign volunteers Carter Page and George Papadopoulos in entrapment operations on British
soil, using British agents, during the spring and summer of 2016. The personnel employed in these operations all had multiple
connections to the British firm Hakluyt, to Steele's firm Orbis, and to the British military's Integrity Initiative. Sometime in
the summer of 2016, Robert Hannigan, then head of GCHQ, flew to Washington to brief John Brennan personally. Hannigan abruptly
resigned from GCHQ shortly after the election, sparking widespread speculation that the British were making an attempt at damage
control.
Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort were already on the radar and under investigation by the same British, Dearlove-centered intelligence
network and by Christopher Steele specifically. Flynn had been defamed by Dearlove and Stefan Halper, as a possible Russian agent
way back in 2014 because he spoke to Russian researcher Svetlana Lokhova at a dinner sponsored by Dearlove's Cambridge Security Forum.
Or, at least that was the pretext for the targeting of Flynn, who otherwise defied British intelligence by exposing Western support
for terrorist operations in Syria and sought a collaborative relationship with Russia to counter ISIS. Manafort was under FBI investigation
throughout 2014 and 2015, largely in retaliation for his role in steering the Party of the Regions to political power in Ukraine.
In 2016, the Manafort investigation migrated to the Democratic National Committee with direct assistance provided by Ukrainian
state intelligence. This effort was led by Alexandra Chalupa, an admirer of Stepan Bandera and other heroes of Nazi history in Ukraine.
Chalupa also had deep connections to British-oriented networks at the U.S. State Department.
In or around June 2016, Christopher Steele began writing his dirty and bogus dossier about Trump and Russia. This is the dossier
which claimed that Trump was compromised by Putin and that Putin was coordinating with Trump in the 2016 election. The main "legend"
of this full-spectrum information warfare operation run from Britain, was that Donald Trump was receiving "dirt" on Hillary Clinton
from Russia. The operations targeting Page and Papadopoulos consisted of multiple attempts to plant fabricated evidence on them which
would reflect what Steele himself was fabricating in the dirty dossier. At the very same time, the infamous June 2016 meeting at
Trump Tower was being set up. That meeting involved the Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, who, it was alleged in a series of
bizarre emails written by British publicist Ron Goldstone to set up the meeting, could deliver "dirt" on Hillary Clinton direct from
the Russian government. Veselnitskaya didn't deliver any such dirt. But the entire operation was being monitored by State Department
intelligence agent Kyle Parker, an expert on Russia. Parker's emails reveal deep ties to the highest levels of British intelligence
and much chatter between them about Trump and Russia.
A now-changed version of the website for Christopher Steele's firm, Orbis, trumpeted an expertise in information warfare operations,
and the networks in which Steele runs are deeply integrated into the British military's Integrity Initiative. The Integrity Initiative
is a rapid response propaganda operation using major journalists in the United States and Europe to carry out targeted defamation
campaigns. Its central charge, according to documents posted by the hacking group Anonymous, is selling the United States and Western
Europe on the immediate need for regime change in Russia, even if that involves war.
Much has been made by Republicans and other lunkheads in the U.S. Congress of Steele's contacts with Russians for his dossier.
They claim that such contacts resulted in a Russian disinformation operation being run through the duped Christopher Steele. Nothing
could be further from the truth.
MI6's Dirty Dossier on Donald Trump: Full-Spectrum Information Warfare
On its face, Steele's dossier would immediately be recognized as a complete fabrication by any competent intelligence analyst.
He cites some 32 sources inside the Russian government for his fabricated claims about Trump. What they allegedly told him is specific
enough in time and content to identify them. To believe that the dossier is true or that actual Russians contributed to it, you must
also believe that that the British government was willing to roll up this entire network, exposing them, since the intention was
for the dossier's wild claims to be published as widely as possible. By all accounts, Britain and the United States together do not
have 32 highly placed sources inside the Russian government, nor would they ever make them public in this way or with this very sloppy
tradecraft. Steele's fabrication also uses aspects of readily available public information, such as the sale of 19% of the energy
company Rosneft, (the alleged bribe offered to Carter Page for lifting sanctions) to concoct a fictional narrative of high crimes
and misdemeanors.
Other claims in the dossier were published, publicly, in various Ukrainian publications. The famous claim that Trump directed
prostitutes to urinate on a bed once slept upon by Barack Obama seems to be plagiarized from similarly fake 2009 British propaganda
stories about Silvio Berlusconi spending the night with a prostitute in a hotel room in Rome, "defiling" Putin's bed. According to
various sources in the United States, this outrageous claim was made by Sergei Millian. George Papadopoulos has stated that he believes
Millian is an FBI informant, recounting in his book how a friend of Millian's blurted this out when Millian, Papadopoulos and the
friend were having coffee.
The final nail in this case has been provided by The Hill 's John Solomon. He says that Steele told former Associate
Attorney General Bruce Ohr about the sources for the dirty dossier. According to Solomon, Ohr's notes reveal one main source, a former
senior Russian intelligence official living in the United States. But, as anyone familiar with the territory would know, there is
no such retired senior Russian intelligence official living in the United States whose entire life is not controlled by the CIA.
Despite its obvious fake pedigree, Steele's dossier was laundered into the Justice Department repeatedly, by the CIA and State
Department and the Obama White House. It was used to obtain FISA surveillance warrants turning key members of the Trump Campaign
into walking microphones. It was circulated endlessly by the Clinton Campaign to a network of reporters in the U.S. known to serve
as scribes for the intelligence community. John Brennan used it to conduct a special emergency briefing of the leading members of
the U.S. Congress charged with intelligence responsibilities in August of 2016 and to brief Harry Reid, who was Senate Majority Leader
at the time. All of this activity meant that the salacious accusation that Trump was a Putin pawn and the FBI was investigating the
matter, leaked out and was used by the Clinton Campaign to defame Trump for its electoral advantage. When Trump won, Steele's nonsense
received the stamp of the U.S. intelligence community and official currency in the campaign to take out the President.
As a result of Congressional investigations of Russiagate, it has become abundantly clear that the British operation against
Trump was aided and abetted by the Obama White House, the State Department, the CIA, the FBI, and personalities associated with the
National Endowment for Democracy. The individuals involved might be named Veterans of the 2014 Ukrainian Coup, since all of
them also worked on this operation. It is no accident that Victoria Nuland, the case agent for the Ukraine coup, played a major role
in bolstering Steele's credentials for the purpose of selling his dirty dossier to the media and to the Justice Department. This
went so far as Steele giving a full scale briefing on his fabricated dossier at the State Department in October 2016.
Out of the Ukraine coup, an entire military-centered propaganda apparatus arose, first through NATO, and then out from there
to military units and diplomatic centers in the U.S., Europe, and Britain, to run low intensity operations, and black propaganda,
against Russia.
The British end of the operation includes the Integrity Initiative, the 77th Brigade, and NATO's Strategic Communications
Center. In the United States, the Integrity Initiative has been integrated into the Global Engagement Center at the U.S. State Department.
Most certainly, this operation is poised again to intervene in the U.S. elections; the British House of Lords have stated explicitly,
in their December 2018 report, British Foreign Policy in a Shifting World Order, that Donald Trump must not be re-elected.
This is why the British are yelping that under no circumstances can the classified documents concerning their role in the
attempted coup against Donald Trump be declassified. It would end their leverage over the United States and much of Europe. That
is why these documents must indeed be declassified, and parallel investigations by citizens and government officials concerned with
ending the imperial system, otherwise known as the current "war party," must begin in earnest.
"in a post-Iraq invasion world, only herd-minded human livestock believe"
Perhaps add mainstream media to the list of such sincere believers, they will fire their own real journalists.
David Walters , April 24, 2019 at 13:14
"This doesn't mean that Russia would never use hackers to interfere in world political affairs or that Vladimir Putin is some
sort of virtuous girl scout, it just means that in a post-Iraq invasion world, only herd-minded human livestock believe the unsubstantiated
assertions of opaque and unaccountable government agencies about governments who are oppositional to those same agencies."
Absolutely correct.
Anyone who still believes what the IC says if a moron. As Pompeo recently said to the student body of Texas A&M University,
my alma matta, the CIA's job is to lie, cheat and steel. He went on the explain that the CIA has courses to teach their agent
that dark "art".
Right, David Walters, and see Pompous Pompeo now. The only truths he's told was to a student body of Texas A&M University –
his own alma mater – the CIA's job is to lie, cheat and steal.
Even though he's left his post as CIA Director and assumed his current post of Secretary of State. Pompous Pompeo continues his
CIA traits of lying, cheating, and stealing. It's in a way similar to a phrase, "A leopard never changes its spots". This is why
the DPRK govt issued a Persona Non Grata on Pompous Pompeo – that he isn't a bona fide diplomat, but a CIA official.
CWG , April 22, 2019 at 17:15
Here's my take on the 'Russian Collusion Deep State LIE.
There was NO Russian Collusion at all to get Trump in the White House. Most probably, Putin would have favored Clinton, since
she could be bought. Trump can't.
What did happen was illegal spying on the Trump campaign. That started late 2015, WITHOUT a FISA warrant. They only obtained
that in 2016, through lying to the FISA Court. The basis for that first warrant was the Fusion GPS Steele Dossier.
Ever since Trump won the election, they real conspirators knew they had a problem. That was apparent ever after Devin Nunes
did the right thing by informing Trump they were spying on him.
Since they obtained those FISA warrant through lying to the FISA Court (which is treason) they needed to cover that up as quickly
as possible.
So what did they do? Instead of admitting they lied to the FISA Court they kept on lying till this very day. The same lie through
which they obtained the FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign was being pushed openly.
The lie is and was 'Trump colluded with the Russians in order to win the Presidential Election'.
They knew from day one Trump didn't do anything wrong. They did know they spied on Trump through lying to the FISA Court, which
again, is treason. According to the Constitution, lying to the FISA court= Treason.
In order to avoid being indicted and prosecuted, they somehow needed to 'take down' the Attorney General. At all costs, they
needed to try and hide what really happened.
So there they went. 'Trump colluded with the Russians. Not just Trump, but the entire Trump campaign!'.
'Sessions should recuse himself', the propaganda MSM said in unison. 'Recuse, recuse'.
Sessions, naively recused himself. Back then, even he probably didn't know the entire story. It was only later on that Sarah
Carter and Jon Solomon found out it had been Hillary who ordered and paid the Steele Dossier.
The real conspirators hoped that through the Special Counsel rat Mueller they might be able to achieve three main objectives.
1: Convince the American people Russia indeed was meddling in the Presidential Election.
2: Find any sort of dirt on Trump and/or people who helped him win the Election in order to 'take them down'.
Many people were indicted, some were prosecuted. Yet NONE of them were convicted for a crime that had ANYTHING to with with
the elections. NONE.
They stretched it out as long as possible. 'The longer you repeat a lie, the more people are willing to believe the lie'.
So that is what they did. They still do it. Mueller took TWO years to brainwash as many people as possible. 'Russian Collusion,
Russian Collusion. Russia. Russia. Russia. Russia. Rusiaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh ..
Why did they want to make sure they could keep telling that lie as long as possible?
Because they FEAR people will learn the truth. There was NEVER any Russian Collusion with the Trump campaign.
There was spying on the Trump campaign by Obama in order to try and make Hillary win the Presidential Election.
That is the actual COLLUSION between the Clinton Campaign and a weaponized Obama regime!!
So what did 'Herr Mueller' do?
He took YEARS to come up with the conclusion that the Trump campaign did NOT collude with Russia.
The MSM tried to make us all believe it was about that. Yet it was NOT.
His conclusive report is all about the question 'did or didn't the Trump campaign collude with the Russians'.
Trump exonerated, and the MSM only talks about that. Trump, Trump, Trump.
They still want us all to believe that was what the Mueller 'investigation' was all about. Yet it was not.
The most important objective of the Mueller 'investigation' was not to 'investigate'.
It was to 'instigate' that HUGE lie.
The same lie which they used to obtain the FISA warrant on the Trump campaign.
"Russia'.
So what has 'Herr Mueller' done?
A: He finds ZERO evidence at all which proves the Trump campaign colluded with ANY Russians.
And now the huge lie, which after all was the main objective right from the get go. (A was only a distraction)
B: Russians hacked the DNC.
That is what they wants us all to believe. That Russia somehow did bad stuff.
Now it was not Russia who did bad stuff.
It was Obama working together with the Clinton campaign. Obama weaponized his entire regime in order to let Clinton win the
Presidency.
That is the REAL collusion. The real CRIME. Treason!
In order to create a 'cover up' Mueller NEEDED to instigate that Russia somehow did bad things.
That's what the Mueller Dossier is ALL about. They now have 'black on white' 'evidence' that Russia somehow did bad things.
Because if Russia didn't do anything like that, it would make us all ask the fair question 'why did Obama spy on the Trump
Campaign'.
Let's go a bit deeper still.
Here's a trap Mueller created. What if Trump would openly doubt the LIE they still push? The HUGE lie that Russia did bad things?
After all, they NEED that LIE in order to COVER UP their own crime.
If Trump would say 'I do not believe Russia did anything to influence the elections, I think Mueller wrote that to COVER UP
the real crime', what would happen?
They would say 'GOTCHA now, see Trump is colluding with Russia? He even refuses to accept Russia hacked the DNC, this ultimately
proofs Trump indeed is a Russian asset'.
They believe that trap will work. They needed that trap, since if Russia wasn't doing anything wrong, it would show us all
THEY were the criminals.
They NEED that lie, in order to COVER UP.
That is the 'Insurance Policy' Stzrok and Page texted about. Even Sarah Carter and Jon Solomon still don't seem to see all
that.
They should have attacked the HUGE lie that Russia was somehow hacking the DNC. That is simply not true. It's a Mueller created
LIE.
That LIE = the Insurance Policy.
What did they need an Insurance Policy for? They want us all to believe that was about preventing Trump from being elected.
Although true, that is only A.
They NEEDED an Insurance Policy in the unlikely case Trump would become President and would find out they were illegally spying
on him!
The REAL crime is Obama weaponized the American Government to spy on even a duly elected President.
What's the punishment for Treason?
About Assange and Seth Rich.
Days after Mueller finishes his 'mission' (Establish the LIE Russia did bad things) which seems to be succesfull, the Deep
State arrest the ONLY source who could undermine that lie.
Assange Since he knows who is (Seth Rich?) and who isn't (Russia) the source.
If Assange could testify under oath the emails did not come from Russia, the LIE would be exposed.
No coincidences here. I fear Assange will never testify under oath. I actually fear for his life.
Deniz , April 23, 2019 at 13:48
While I wholeheartedly agree with you that Obama and Clinton are criminals, the far less convincing part of your argument is
that Trump is not now beholden to the same MIC interests. Bolton, Abrahams, Pompeo, Pence his relationship with Netanyahu, the
overthrow of Madura are all glaring examples that contradict the Rights narrative that he is some type of hero. Trump may not
have colluded with Russia, but he does seem to be colluding with Saudia Arabia, Israel, Big Oil and the MIC.
Whether one is on the Right or Left, the house is still made of glass.
boxerwars , April 22, 2019 at 17:13
RE: "A Russian Agent Smear"
:::
Was Pat Tillman Murdered?
JUL 30, 2007
I don't know, but it seems increasingly conceivable. Just absorb these facts:
O'Neal said Tillman, a corporal, threw a smoke grenade to identify themselves to fellow soldiers who were firing at them. Tillman
was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat [expletive] Tillman, damn it!" again and again when he was killed,
O'Neal said
In the same testimony, medical examiners said the bullet holes in Tillman's head were so close together that it appeared the
Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
The motive? I don't know. It's still likeliest it was an accident. But there's some mysterious testimony in the SI report about
nameless snipers. A reader suggests the following interpretation:
News this weekend said that there were "snipers" present and the witnesses didn't remember their names. I believe that's code
in the Army–these guys were Delta. In the Tillman incident, these snipers weren't part of the unit and they were never mentioned
publicly before. That's a key indicator that they weren't supposed to be acknowledged.
If you've ever read Blackhawk Down, Mark Bowden explains how he grew frustrated because interviewed Rangers kept referring
to "soldiers from another unit" while claiming they didn't know the unit ID or the soldiers' names. It took him months to crack
the unit ID and find people from Delta who were present at the fight.
Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon, the Delta operators who earned Medals of Honor in Mogadishu, have always been identified as
snipers, too.
If my theory is correct, the Delta guys could have fired the shots – a three-round burst to the forehead from 50 yards is impossible
for normal soldiers and Rangers, but is probably an easy shot for those guys. But because Delta doesn't officially exist and Tillman
was a hero, nobody in the Army would want to have to explain exactly how the event went down. Easier just to claim hostile fire
until the family forced them to do otherwise.
This makes some sense to me, although we shouldn't dismiss the chance he was murdered. Tillman was a star and might have aroused
jealousy or resentment. He also opposed the Iraq war and was a proud atheist. In Bush's increasingly sectarian military, that
might have stirred hostility. I don't know. But I know enough to want a deeper investigation. My atheist readers will no doubt
admire the way Tillman left this world, according to the man who was with him:
As bullets flew above their heads, the young soldier at Pat Tillman's side started praying. "I thought I was praying to myself,
but I guess he heard me," Sgt. Bryan O'Neal recalled in an interview Saturday with The Associated Press. "He said something like,
'Hey, O'Neal, why are you praying? God can't help us now."'
(Maybe the Congress can )
////// The USA is aghast with "smears" and "internal investigations" and promised but never produced "White Papers" 'as the
world turns' and circles continents Dominated by American Military Power / Predominantly Barbarous / Uncivilized Use of Force
/ and Arrogantly Effective in it's use of Dominating Military Power.
\\\\ The Poorer Peoples of the World accept their lots-in-life with some acceptance of reality vis-a-vis the "lot-in-life"
they've been alleged/assigned.
/// But How Do We Accept The Fact that our Self-Sacrificiing Hero,Pat Tillman, was slaughtered in Afghanistan,
(WITH POSITIVE PROOF) – by his own Fellow American soldiers – ???
!!!! What i'm say'n is, if Tillman represents the Life Surrendering "American Hero"
WHY DID HIS FELLOW "AMERICAN SOLDIERS" ASSASSINATE & MURDER HIM ???????
AND WHY IS THIS STORY BURIED ALONG WITH MANY OTHER SMEAR Stories
that provide prophylactic protection for all the Trump pianist prophylaxis cover
Up for the Right Wing theft of American Democracy under FDR
In favor of Ayn Rand's prevalent OBJECTIVISM under Trump.
"Capitalism and Altruism
are incompatible
capitalism and altruism
cannot coexist in man,
or in the same society".
President Trump represents
Stark & Total Capitalism
Just as "Conservative Party"
Core is in The Confederacy
AKA; The RIGHT WING
The Right Wing of US Gov't
Is All About PRESERVING
Confederate States' Laws
Written by Thomas Jefferson
Prior to The Constitution, which
became the Received/Judicial
Constitutional Law of the Land in
The Republic of the "United States"
It's not enough that Trump is clearly a classic narcissist whose behavior will continue to deteriorate the more his actions
and statements are attacked and countered? You know what happens when narcissists are driven into a corner by people tearing them
down? They get weapons and start killing people.
There is already more than ample evidence to remove Donald Trump from office, not the least being he's clearly mentally unfit.
Yet the Democrats, some of whom ran for office on a promise to impeach, are suddenly reticent to act without "more investigation".
Nancy Pelosi stated on the record prior to release of the Mueller report impeachment wasn't on the agenda "for now". She's now
making noises in the opposite direction, but that's all they are: noise.
The bottom line is the Clintonite New Democrats currently running the party have only one issue to run on next year: getting
rid of Donald Trump. They still operate under the delusion they will be able to use him to draw off moderate Republican voters,
the same ones they were positive would come out for Hillary Clinton in '16. Their multitude of candidates pay lip service to progressive
policy then carefully walk back to the standard centrist positions once the donations start coming, but the common underlying
theme was and continues to be "Donald Trump is evil, and we need to elect a Democrat."
In short, without Donald Trump in the Oval Office, the Democrat Party has no platform. They need him there as a target, because
Mike Pence would be impossible for them to beat. They are under orders, according to various writers who've addressed the Clinton
campaign, to block Bernie Sanders and his platform at all costs; and they will allow the country to crash and burn before they
disobey those orders. That means keeping Donald Trump right where he is through next November.
Eddie S , April 24, 2019 at 21:14
Exactly right, EKB -- - you can't ballroom dance without a partner! Also reminds me of the couples you occasionally run into
where one partner repeatedly runs-down the other, and you get the feeling that the critical partner doesn't have much going on
in his/her life so they deflect that by focusing on the other partner
Johnny Ryan S , April 22, 2019 at 13:38
Why did the DNC not allow the FBI to investigate the so-called" Russian hacked" emails? Rather, they hire CrowdStrike did
you know:
1)Obama Appoints CrowdStrike Officer To Admin Post Two Months Before June 2016 Report On Russia Hacking DNC
2) CrowdStrike Co-Founder Is Fellow On Russia Hawk Group, Has Connections To George Soros, Ukrainian Billionaire
3) DNC stayed that the FBI never asked to investigate the servers – that is a lie.
4) CrowdStrike received $100 million in investments led by Google Capital (since re-branded as CapitalG) in 2015. CapitalG is
owned by Alphabet, and Eric Schmidt, Alphabet's chairman, was a supporter of Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election. More than just
supporting Clinton, leaked emails from Wikileaks in November 2016 showed that in 2014 he wanted to have an active role in the
campaign.
-daily caller and dan bongino have been bringing these points up since 2016.
Deniz , April 22, 2019 at 12:36
The Right is currently salivating over the tough law enforcement rhetoric coming out of Barr and Trump.
It reminds me of when Obama was running for office in 2008 when everyone, including myself, was in awe of him. What kept slipping
into his soaring anti-intervention speeches, was a commitment to the good war in Afghanistan, which seemed totally out of place
with the rest of his rhetoric. The fine print was far more reflective of his administration actions as the rest of it his communications
turned out to be just telling people what they wanted to hear.
War with Afghanistan was Obama's payoff to the MIC, just as Russia is now Trump's payoff.
The argument about not inserting Rich and the download is a good one as a defense strategy but doesn't help with finding the
truth about the emails. We can only hope that pursuing the truth and producing it will have a cumulative effect and the illusory
truth effect will include this truth.
Red Douglas , April 22, 2019 at 16:00
>>> ". . . doesn't help with finding the truth about the emails."
The important truth about the emails is in their authenticity and in the contents. No one has even attempted to claim that
they are not authentic or that the contents we've seen are other than the actual contents of the authentic messages.
Why should we much care how they were acquired and provided to the publisher?
Lily , April 22, 2019 at 17:55
That is what i think. People should not concentrate on how, who and where. This is just a smokescreen to avoid talking about
the content of the emails and Hillary Clinton's disgusting actions. She is a criminal and a murderess just like Obama and Tony
Blair are lyers and mass murderers.
All three of them are free, earning millions with their publicity whereas two brave persons who were telling the truth have
been tortured and are still in jail. Reality has become like the most horrible nightmare. Everything simply seems to have turned
upside down. No writer would invent such a primitive plot. And yet it is the unbelievable reality.
Dump Pelousy , April 23, 2019 at 13:21
I totally agree with you, and in fact believe that this whole 22month expensive and mind numbing circus has been played out
JUST to keep the public from knowing what the emails actually said. Can you imagine Madcow focusing with such ferocity on John
Pedesta as she has on Putin, by discussing what he wrote during a presidential campaign to "influence the election" ? We'd be
a different country now, not fighting our way thru the McCarthite Swamp she helped create.
That completely wrong. You can't prevent the "march of history" even if you understand that it is directed against you.
The collapse of the USSR put in motion forces for the revolution of the results of WWII. And EuroMaydan like previously Baltic
states "Maidans" were the direct result of this dissolution and changed balance of power in Europe with EU now being the
dominant force and the USA dominant geopolitical force.
Still it is true that Ukraine EuroMaydan was the major Putin's defeat and the major victory of the US neocons in general and
Obama as the President in particular. It might well be that this was inevitable as the
trajectory of post-soviet republic is reliable move toward anti-Russian stance as a side effect
of obtaining the independence, but still this was a defeat. It was actually Yanukovich who encouraged and helped to organized and
finance far right forces and the Party in Ukraine. such a pro-Russian President as fame news media in the USA and GB like to
describe him
Poroshenko was the USA SOB. The USA allowed Zelensky to run for office, and allowed him to win. Zelensky is most probably
another USA SOB, although only time will tell. Comedians are usually are people with very high IQ who see the absurdity of
the current life in Ukraine and Poroshenko regime more clearly then others. The question is whether he will be allowed to do
something about it by the USA and EU, who control Ukraine both politically and financially. Biden story of dismissal of the
General Prosecutor of Ukraine (who tried to procedure the firm Biden son got money from ) with ease tells us something about the
nature of the current governance of Ukraine: is is not even a vassal state -- it is a colony.
Nuland success in pushing Ukrainian nationalists to arm uprising against Yanukovich (pissing EU which signed a treaty with
Yanukovich about holding elections, which he would certanly lose, a day before) also can be explained that at this point the USA
controlled vital centers of Ukrainian political power including intelligence agencies, several oligarchs (Poroshenko is one;
Timoshenko is another) and, especially, media. In Ukraine Western NGO have the status of diplomatic missions (with
corresponding immunity), so in no way such a country can be independent in any meaningful sense of this word.
But craziness, aggressiveness and recklessness of the US neocons, who now practice old imperial "might makes right" mode
of operation, gives the world some hope. They most probably will burn the USA geological power it acquired after the
dissolution of the USSR sooner then many expect. Like look at Bolton and Pompeo recent actions.
Notable quotes:
"... "For better or for worse, Putin has put an end to oligarch rule in Russia. Members of Putin's inner circle may be immensely rich, but they know to whom they owe their wealth. By imprisoning Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Putin sent a clear message to the all-powerful oligarchs that controlled Russia during former president Boris Yeltsin's time: stay out of politics." ..."
The main feeling about the entire topic of the Ukraine is one of total disgust, a
gradual and painful realization of the fact that our so-called "brothers" are brothers only
in the sense of the biblical Cain and the acceptance that there is nobody to talk to in
Kiev.
Russia likes to fashion itself as a "great power". A real great power should have been
able to insert itself in Ukrainian politics, regardless of any brotherly feelings – you
know, like US did.
As a Russian, I feel disgust at our leaders who squandered all of Russia's historic
influence on the Ukraine and gave up – poor neo-Soviet dinosaurs got completely
outmaneuvered.
@Kiza
Read
Try to understand
Read it again
Try to understand
Read it again
Try to understand
"For better or for worse, Putin has put an end to oligarch rule in Russia. Members of
Putin's inner circle may be immensely rich, but they know to whom they owe their wealth. By
imprisoning Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Putin sent a clear message to the all-powerful oligarchs
that controlled Russia during former president Boris Yeltsin's time: stay out of
politics."
Vladimir Golstein, professor of Slavic studies at Brown University. He was born in Moscow
and emigrated to the United States in 1979.
There are several crimes for which Poroshenko can be investigated and the USA can do nothing
about: one is Odessa massacre which supposedly was financed by Poroshenko. And Kolomysky was also
involved so it remain to be seen if this issues will be raised. Also the power of far right
forces in Ukraine is such that just raising this question might be equal to treason in the eyes
of Ukrainian nationalists. Because such powerful figures as Avakov and Parubiy were also
involved.
Notable quotes:
"... Ukrainians don’t give a shit about the Poro regime, and are perfectly willing to see it incarcerated. Nor do NatsBatalions really crave to be seen as puppets of DC, Kolo, or Israel, or Brussels. Your take is really simplistic here. ..."
The West is concerned with protecting Poro. Based on WSJ editorials, obsequious legations to
manlet Macron. None of that means jack shit.
DC will have to exercise real power to prevent a cleaning of the house. Word are words.
Rumors are rumors. Z. will act within his mandate and limits placed by rabid opposition. He
will act in keeping with rational need to not fight a US-backed congress, to get shot in the
streets for things too radical. Majority of Ukrainians will be happy to see Poro in prison. DC
can keep this from happening not with words, but with bullets. Strana can claim what it wants,
its claims are patent garbage.
Ukrainians don’t give a shit about the Poro regime, and are perfectly willing to
see it incarcerated. Nor do NatsBatalions really crave to be seen as puppets of DC, Kolo, or
Israel, or Brussels. Your take is really simplistic here.
... ... ...
Z. does have a party. The elections for the Ukranian Parliament is in September. His party,
as a matter of fact, is leading in opinion polls. https://ria.ru/20190416/1552741067.html And it is
doing so together with the party of Boiko.
Logically then, given enough time/space Z. should be in a position to pursue necessary
policies end of the year.
‘The truth is nobody knows what will happen next…There are just too many
parameters to consider, and the real balance of power following this election has not
manifested itself yet’, as The Saker forebodingly warns. The pattern of history
suggests the continent is heading for another world war. https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/
The course of events in Europe and globally predict things will only get worse. Like The
Saker, ‘I also very much hope that I am wrong.’
"... Finally, there is Vladimir Groisman, the current prime minister who has kept a very low profile, ..."
"... He might make a much more effective Ukrainian Gauleiter for the Empire than either Poroshenko or Zelenskii. ..."
"... And let's not forget Avakov and Parubii, who are both soaked in innocent blood, and who will try to hold on to their considerable power by using the various Nazi death-squads under their control. ..."
"... there is still the formidable (and relatively popular) Iulia Timoshenko whose political ambitions need to be kept in check. Thus, Poroshenko with his immense wealth and his connections can still be a useful tool for the Empire's control of the Ukraine. ..."
"... The western calculus might also be wrong: for one thing, Zelenskii cannot deliver anything meaningful to the Ukrainian people, most definitely not prosperity or honesty. Pretty soon the Ukrainian people will wake up to realize that when they elected the "new face" of Zelenskii, they ended up with the "not new" face of Kolomoiskii and everything that infamous name entails. ..."
"... Poroshenko's power base is very rapidly eroding because nobody wants to go down with him. I tend to believe that Poroshenko has outlived his usefulness for the AngloZionists because he became an overnight political corpse. But this is the Ukraine, so never say never. ..."
"... Russians have been extremely cautious, and nobody seems to harbor any illusions about Zelenskii. In fact, just a day after his election Zelenskii is already making all sorts of anti-Russian statements. ..."
"... Slap further economic sanctions on the Ukraine (Russia has just banned the export of energy sources to the Ukraine – finally and at last!). ..."
"... The truth is that nobody knows what will happen next, not even Kolomoiskii or Zelenskii himself. There are just too many parameters to consider, and the real balance of power following this election has not manifested itself yet. As for the true aspirations and hopes of the people of the Ukraine, they were utterly ignored: Poroshenko will be replaced by Kolomoiskii, wearing the mask of Zelenskii. Hardly a reason to rejoice ..."
"... But will Zelenskii turn out to be any better? I very much doubt it, even though I also very much hope that I am wrong. ..."
As everybody predicted, Poroshenko completely lost the election. As I wrote in my previous column, this is both amazing (considering
Poro’s immense and extensive resources and the fact that his opponent was, literally, a clown (ok, a comic if you prefer). His defeat
was also so predictable as to be almost inevitable: not only is the man genuinely hated all over the Ukraine (except for the Nazi
crackpots of the Lvov region), but he made fatal blunders which made him even more detestable than usual.
Now one could sympathize with Poroshenko: not only did this “Putin the boogeyman” appear to work fantastically well with the main
sponsors of the Ukronazi coup and with the legacy Ziomedia, but nobody dared to tell Poroshenko that most Ukrainians were not buying
that nonsense at all. The suggestion that all the other candidates are Putin agents is no less ridiculous. The thin veneer of deniability
Poroshenko had devised (the poster was not put up by the official Poroshenko campaign but by “volunteers”) failed, everybody immediately
saw through it all, and this resulted in Poro’s first big campaign faceplant.
Again, this was not officially Poroshenko’s campaign which made this video, but everybody saw through this one too. The quasi-open
threat to murder Zelenskii was received with horror in the Ukraine, and this PR-disaster was Poro’s second faceplant.
Then the poor man “lost it.” I won’t list all the stupid and ridiculous things the man said and did, but I will say that his performance
at the much-anticipated debate in the stadium was a disaster too.
The writing had been on the wall for a while now, and this is why the two candidates were summoned to speak to their masters (face
to face in Germany and France, by phone with Mr. MAGA) and they were told a few things:
Poroshenko was told in no uncertain terms that he could not trigger a war, organize a last-minute false flag, murder Zelenskii
or engage in any other “creative campaign methods.”
The western calculus is simple: try to keep Poroshenko alive (figuratively and politically) and to see how much of the Rada he
can keep. Furthermore, since Zelenskii is extremely weak (he has no personal power base of any kind), Kolomoiskii will have him do
exactly as he is told and Kolomoiskii can easily be told to behave by the Empire.
Finally, there is Vladimir Groisman, the current prime minister who has kept a very low profile, who does NOT have blood
on his hands (at least when compared to thugs like Turchinov or Avakov) and who has not made any move which would blacklist him with
the Kremlin. Groisman is also a Jew (Israel and the Ukraine are now the two countries on the planet in which both the President and
the Prime-Minister are Jews; ironic considering the historical lovefest between Jews and Ukrainian nationalists ). He might make
a much more effective Ukrainian Gauleiter for the Empire than either Poroshenko or Zelenskii. For the time being, Goisman
has already ditched Poroshenko's party and is creating his own.
And let's not forget Avakov and Parubii, who are both soaked in innocent blood, and who will try to hold on to their considerable
power by using the various Nazi death-squads under their control. Finally, there is still the formidable (and relatively
popular) Iulia Timoshenko whose political ambitions need to be kept in check. Thus, Poroshenko with his immense wealth and his connections
can still be a useful tool for the Empire's control of the Ukraine.
The western calculus might also be wrong: for one thing, Zelenskii cannot deliver anything meaningful to the Ukrainian
people, most definitely not prosperity or honesty. Pretty soon the Ukrainian people will wake up to realize that when they elected
the "new face" of Zelenskii, they ended up with the "not new" face of Kolomoiskii and everything that infamous name entails.
Zelenskii might not have another option than to jail Poroshenko, which he semi-promised to do during the stadium debate. Except
that now Zelenskii is saying that he will consult with Poroshenko and might even use him in some official capacity. Yes, campaign
promises in the Ukraine are never kept for more than the time it takes to make them. Finally, Poroshenko's power base is very
rapidly eroding because nobody wants to go down with him. I tend to believe that Poroshenko has outlived his usefulness for the AngloZionists
because he became an overnight political corpse. But this is the Ukraine, so never say never.
Finally, the Empire is also pushing for a reform of the Ukrainian political system to give less powers to the President and more
to the Rada. Again, this makes sense considering that Zelenskii is an unknown actor and considering the fact that Rada members are
basically on the US payroll (across all parties and factions).
What about Russia in all this?
Well, the Russians have been extremely cautious, and nobody seems to harbor any illusions about Zelenskii. In fact, just a
day after his election Zelenskii is already making all sorts of anti-Russian statements. Truly, besides the logical implication
of Poroshenko's poster (that a defeat for him would mean a victory for Putin), nobody in Russia is celebrating. The main feeling
about the entire topic of the Ukraine is one of total disgust, a gradual and painful realization of the fact that our so-called "brothers"
are brothers only in the sense of the biblical Cain and the acceptance that there is nobody to talk to in Kiev. Thus Russia will
have to embark on a policy of unilateral actions towards the Ukraine. These could include:
Decide whether to recognize the outcome of the election or not. I think that it is more likely that Russia will recognize
the fact that most Ukrainians did vote for Zelenskii, but that recognition will imply nothing more than that: the recognition
of a fact.
Accelerate the pace of distribution of Russian passports to citizens of the DNR and LNR republics.
Slap further economic sanctions on the Ukraine (Russia has just banned the export of energy sources to the Ukraine – finally
and at last!).
Declare that since millions of Ukrainians did not vote (inside the Ukraine, in the DNR/LNR and in Russia, and since the Minsk
Agreements are dead (they are de facto if not de jure yet) Russia does not recognize this election and, instead,
recognizes the two people's republics. I don't think that the Kremlin will do that short of an Ukronazi attack on Novorussia (in
which case the Russians will do what they did following Saakashvili's attack on South-Ossetia).
So far, Russian spokespeople have just said that they "respected the vote of the Ukrainian people" and that they will judge Zelenskii
"on his actions, not his words". This approach sure seems balanced and reasonable to me.
Conclusion:
The truth is that nobody knows what will happen next, not even Kolomoiskii or Zelenskii himself. There are just too many parameters
to consider, and the real balance of power following this election has not manifested itself yet. As for the true aspirations and
hopes of the people of the Ukraine, they were utterly ignored: Poroshenko will be replaced by Kolomoiskii, wearing the mask of Zelenskii.
Hardly a reason to rejoice
In spite of the large number of electoral candidates, the people of the Ukraine were not given a meaningful choice. So they did
the only thing they could do: they voted to kick Poroshenko out. And that sure must have felt great.
But will Zelenskii turn out to be any better? I very much doubt it, even though I also very much hope that I am wrong.
Zelensky doers not matter much. Other people will define Ukraine both internal and foreign policy.
Notable quotes:
"... The ordinary Ukrainian people are so sick and tired of the militaristic nationalism as well as endemic corruption in Kiev that they voted for someone, anyone, who appears slightly more reasonable. ..."
"... Zelensky has called for direct talks with Russia to help bring about a political settlement. Potentially, this apparently more engaged attitude in Kiev could be key to restoring peace in the region and furthermore resume normal relations with Russia. Moscow has given a cautious welcome to these developments. His landslide victory is certainly a stunning popular repudiation of the anti-Russian mentality of his predecessor, Petro Poroshenko. ..."
"... This suggests that the new Ukrainian president is a "Poroshenko-Lite". The only change is a softening of the anti-Russian rhetoric that has so dominated the Kiev regime since the 2014 CIA-backed coup which ushered in Poroshenko's presidency ..."
"... Moscow is therefore correct to express caution in the political significance of the new Ukrainian president. The Kremlin said it will await substantive action and policy changes, rather than basing its judgment on the vapid words of a TV star-turned-politician ..."
"... Perhaps the clearest conclusion to be drawn is that Ukrainian citizens expressed not so much support for Zelensky – how could they when his manifesto was so utterly vacuous? – but rather his landslide victory was a massive repudiation of the incumbent president and the anti-Russia mentality in Kiev that was such a hallmark of Poroshenko's presidency. ..."
"... For the past five years, the Kiev-dominated Ukrainian state has been nothing but a puppet regime for Washington, NATO and to a lesser extent the European Union. It has served as a spearhead against Russia with vile provocations and slander. It is in fact an abomination of international law and democratic principles. ..."
"... The problem lies in Kiev being a puppet regime for Washington which functions to push an anti-Russia geopolitical agenda. Zelensky is not a solution; his turn at the presidency is merely an intermission break from the ongoing calamity that is Ukraine. ..."
"... The views of individual contributors do not necessarily represent those of the Strategic Culture Foundation. ..."
The ordinary Ukrainian people are so sick and tired of the militaristic nationalism as
well as endemic corruption in Kiev that they voted for someone, anyone, who appears slightly
more reasonable.
The stunning victory of TV funny man Vladimir Zelensky in Ukraine's presidential elections
has tempted notions of a new opportunity to resolve the conflict in eastern Donbas region. The
ongoing war has crippled the entire country, caused over 13,000 deaths and resulted in nearly
one million people displaced from their homes.
Zelensky has called for direct talks with Russia to help bring about a political settlement.
Potentially, this apparently more engaged attitude in Kiev could be key to restoring peace in
the region and furthermore resume normal relations with Russia. Moscow has given a cautious
welcome to these developments. His landslide victory is certainly a stunning popular
repudiation of the anti-Russian mentality of his predecessor, Petro Poroshenko.
But there are so many contradictions and paradoxes in Ukraine's recent presidential election
and its outcome that expectations should be reserved.
For a start, the 41-year-old Zelensky who is a popular TV comedian is a complete political
novice. His entire election campaign was vacant in any policy detail. Yes, he did say he wanted
to hold direct talks with Moscow to end the nearly five-year war in eastern Ukraine between
state forces and pro-Russian separatists. But then only days before his election, Zelensky
disparaged Russia as an "aggressor" and described Russian President Vladimir Putin as an
"enemy".
The move this week by Russia to grant citizenship to ethnic Russian people from Ukraine's
breakaway Donbas region was roundly condemned by Washington and the European Union as
undermining Ukraine's sovereignty. Moscow said it was merely fulfilling internationally
recognized legal rights of people with Russian heritage. In any case, Zelensky also joined in
the ill-considered condemnations against Russia over its passport move.
This suggests that the new Ukrainian president is a "Poroshenko-Lite". The only change is a
softening of the anti-Russian rhetoric that has so dominated the Kiev regime since the 2014
CIA-backed coup which ushered in Poroshenko's presidency.
Zelensky has talked previously about implementing the Minsk peace accords signed in 2015,
yet he has also contradicted himself by saying he will not grant the Donbas political autonomy
or accede to an amnesty for combatants – meaning the war against the ethnic Russian
population by the Russophobic Kiev regime will continue. He also – shamefully –
made public comments apparently valorizing the Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera and the
latter's fascist followers.
Moscow is therefore correct to express caution in the political significance of the new
Ukrainian president. The Kremlin said it will await substantive action and policy changes,
rather than basing its judgment on the vapid words of a TV star-turned-politician. There is an
analogy here with US President Donald Trump and how his ascent to the White House changed
nothing in Washington's hostile policy towards Russia.
Perhaps the clearest conclusion to be drawn is that Ukrainian citizens expressed not so
much support for Zelensky – how could they when his manifesto was so utterly vacuous?
– but rather his landslide victory was a massive repudiation of the incumbent president
and the anti-Russia mentality in Kiev that was such a hallmark of Poroshenko's
presidency.
In other words, the ordinary Ukrainian people are so sick and tired of the militaristic
nationalism as well as endemic corruption in Kiev that they voted for someone, anyone, who
appears slightly more reasonable. Even if that candidate is a comedian with no political
vision.
For the past five years, the Kiev-dominated Ukrainian state has been nothing but a puppet
regime for Washington, NATO and to a lesser extent the European Union. It has served as a
spearhead against Russia with vile provocations and slander. It is in fact an abomination of
international law and democratic principles.
There is no sign that things will change fundamentally under this new president in spite of
his seemingly more reasonable rhetoric. The hopes of Ukrainians for economic improvement,
elimination of corruption by oligarchs and normalization of relations with their compatriots in
Donbas and with Russia will likely be dashed. Voting for comedian Vladimir Zelensky as some
kind of savior for their numerous woes could turn out to be a very cruel joke.
The problem lies in Kiev being a puppet regime for Washington which functions to push an
anti-Russia geopolitical agenda. Zelensky is not a solution; his turn at the presidency is
merely an intermission break from the ongoing calamity that is Ukraine.The views of
individual contributors do not necessarily represent those of the Strategic Culture
Foundation.
In January, 2016, the Obama White House summoned Ukrainian authorities to Washington to discuss
several ongoing matters
under the guise of coordinating "anti-corruption efforts," reports
The
Hill
's John Solomon.
The January 2016 gathering, confirmed by multiple participants and contemporaneous memos,
brought some of Ukraine's top corruption prosecutors and investigators face to face with
members of former President Obama's National Security Council (NSC), FBI, State Department and
Department of Justice (DOJ).
The agenda suggested the purpose was training and coordination. But Ukrainian participants
said it didn't take long -- during the meetings and afterward -- to realize
the Americans'
objectives included two politically hot investigations: one that touched
Vice
President Joe Biden's family
and one that involved a lobbying firm linked closely to
then-candidate Trump
. -
The
Hill
The
Obama officials
- likely knowing that lobbyist Paul Manafort was about to
join President Trump's campaign soon (he joined that March),
were interested in reviving a
closed investigation into payments to US figures from Ukraine's pro-Russia Party of Regions
- which both Paul Manafort and Tony Podesta did unregistered work for, according to former
Ukrainian Embassy political officer Andrii Telizhenko.
The 2014 investigation focused heavily on Manafort
, whose firm was tied to
Trump through his longtime partner and Trump adviser, Roger Stone.
Agents interviewed Manafort in 2014 about
whether he received undeclared payments
from the party of ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych
, an ally of Russia's
Vladimir
Putin
, and whether he engaged in improper foreign lobbying.
The FBI shut down the case without charging Manafort
Telizhenko and other attendees
of the January, 2016 meeting recall DOJ
employees asking Ukrainian investigators from their National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU) if they
could
locate new evidence about the Party of Regions' payments to Americans
.
"It was definitely the case that led to the charges against Manafort and the leak to U.S. media
during the 2016 election," said Telizhenko - which makes the January 2016 gathering in DC one of
the earliest documented efforts to compile a case against Trump and those in his orbit.
Nazar Kholodnytskyy,
Ukraine's chief anti-corruption prosecutor
, told me he
attended some but not all of the January 2016 Washington meetings and couldn't remember the
specific cases, if any, that were discussed.
But he said
he soon saw evidence in Ukraine of
political
meddling in the U.S. election
.
Kholodnytskyy said the key evidence against Manafort
-- a ledger showing payments from the Party of Regions
-- was known to Ukrainian
authorities since 2014
but was suddenly released in May 2016 by the U.S.-friendly NABU
,
after Manafort was named Trump's campaign chairman.
"Somebody kept this black ledger secret for two years and then showed it to the public and the
U.S. media. It was extremely suspicious," said Kholodnytskyy - who specifically instructed NABU not
to share the "black ledger" with the media.
"I ordered the detectives to give nothing to the mass media considering this case. Instead, they
had broken my order and published themselves these one or two pages of this black ledger regarding
Paul Manafort," he added. "For me it was the first call that something was going wrong and that
there is some external influence in this case. And there is some other interests in this case not
in the interest of the investigation and a fair trial."
Manafort joined Trump's campaign on March 29, 2016 and became campaign manager on May 19, 2016.
The ledger's existence leaked on May 29, 2016, while Manafort would be fired from the Trump
campaign that August.
NABU leaked the existence of the ledgers on May 29, 2016. Later that summer, it told U.S.
media the ledgers showed payments to Manafort, a revelation that forced him to resign from the
campaign in August 2016.
A Ukrainian court in December concluded
NABU's release of the ledger was an illegal attempt
to influence the U.S. election. And
a member of Ukraine's parliament has released a
recording of a NABU official saying the agency released the ledger
to help Democratic
nominee Hillary Clinton's campaign.
Kostiantyn Kulyk - deputy head of the Ukraine prosecutor general's international affairs office,
said that
Ukraine also had evidence of other Western figures receiving money from
Yanukovych's party
- such as former Obama White House counsel Gregory Craig - but the
Americans weren't interested.
"They just discussed Manafort. This was all and only what they wanted. Nobody else," said
Kulyk.
Another case raised at the January 2016 meeting
involved the Bidens
-
specifically Burisma Holdings; a Ukrainian energy company which was under investigation at the time
for improper foreign transfers of money.
Burisma allegedly paid then-Vice President Joe
Biden's son Hunter more than $3 million in 2014-15 as both a board member and a consultant,
according
to
bank
records
.
According to Telizhenko,
U.S. officials told the Ukrainians they would prefer that
Kiev drop the Burisma probe and allow the FBI to take it over
. The Ukrainians did not
agree. But then
Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to
fire
Ukraine's chief prosecutor
in March 2016
, as I previously reported. The Burisma
case was transferred to NABU, then shut down.
The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington on Thursday confirmed the Obama administration requested
the meetings in January 2016, but embassy representatives attended only some of the sessions.
Last Wednesday on
Fox and Friends,
Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani said "
I ask you
to keep your eye on Ukraine
," referring to collusion to
help Hillary Clinton in
the 2016 election
.
What's more,
DOJ documents support Telizhenko's claim that the DOJ reopened its Manafort
case as the 2016 election ramped up -
including communications between Associate Attorney
General Bruce Ohr, his wife, Nellie, and ex-British spy Christopher Steele, as Solomon writes.
Nellie Ohr and Steele worked in 2016 for the research firm, Fusion GPS, that was hired by
Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) to find Russia dirt on Trump.
Steele wrote the famous dossier for Fusion that the FBI used to gain a warrant to spy on the
Trump campaign. Nellie Ohr admitted to Congress that she routed Russia dirt on Trump from Fusion
to the DOJ
through
her husband
during the election.
DOJ emails show Nellie Ohr on May 30, 2016, directly alerted her husband and two DOJ
prosecutors specializing in international crimes to the discovery of the "black ledger"
documents that led to Manafort's prosecution.
"Reported Trove of documents on Ukrainian Party of Regions' Black Cashbox," Nellie Ohr
wrote
to her husband and federal prosecutors
Lisa Holtyn and Joseph Wheatley, attaching
a
news article
on the announcement of NABU's release of the documents.
Politico reported previously that the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington assisted the Hillary
Clinton campaign through a DNC contractor, while the Ukrainian Embassy acknowledges that it got
requests from a DNC staffer
to find dirt on Manafort
(though it denies providing
any improper assistance."
As Solomon concludes: "what is already confirmed by Ukrainians
looks a lot more like
assertive collusion with a foreign power than anything detailed in
the
Mueller report
."
"... Nazar Kholodnytskyy, Ukraine's chief anti-corruption prosecutor, told me he attended some but not all of the January 2016 Washington meetings and couldn't remember the specific cases, if any, that were discussed. ..."
"... But he said he soon saw evidence in Ukraine of political meddling in the U.S. election . Kholodnytskyy said the key evidence against Manafort -- a ledger showing payments from the Party of Regions -- was known to Ukrainian authorities since 2014 but was suddenly released in May 2016 by the U.S.-friendly NABU, after Manafort was named Trump's campaign chairman: "Somebody kept this black ledger secret for two years and then showed it to the public and the U.S. media. It was extremely suspicious." ..."
"... "I ordered the detectives to give nothing to the mass media considering this case. Instead, they had broken my order and published themselves these one or two pages of this black ledger regarding Paul Manafort." ..."
"... Kulyk said Ukrainian authorities had evidence that other Western figures , such as former Obama White House counsel Gregory Craig, also received money from Yanukovych's party. But the Americans weren't interested: "They just discussed Manafort. This was all and only what they wanted. Nobody else." ..."
"... According to Telizhenko, U.S. officials told the Ukrainians they would prefer that Kiev drop the Burisma probe and allow the FBI to take it over. The Ukrainians did not agree. But then Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to fire Ukraine's chief prosecutor in March 2016, as I previously reported. The Burisma case was transferred to NABU, then shut down. ..."
"... The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington on Thursday confirmed the Obama administration requested the meetings in January 2016, but embassy representatives attended only some of the sessions. ..."
"... But Telizhenko's claim that the DOJ reopened its Manafort probe as the 2016 election ramped up is supported by the DOJ's own documents, including communications involving Associate Attorney General Bruce Ohr, his wife, Nellie, and ex-British spy Christopher Steele. ..."
"... DOJ emails show Nellie Ohr on May 30, 2016, directly alerted her husband and two DOJ prosecutors specializing in international crimes to the discovery of the "black ledger" documents that led to Manafort's prosecution. ..."
"... The efforts eventually led to a September 2016 meeting in which the FBI asked Deripaska if he could help prove Manafort was helping Trump collude with Russia. Deripaska laughed off the notion as preposterous. ..."
"... Now we have more concrete evidence that the larger Ukrainian government also was being pressed by the Obama administration to help build the Russia collusion narrative. And that onion is only beginning to be peeled. ..."
"... But what is already confirmed by Ukrainians looks a lot more like assertive collusion with a foreign power than anything detailed in the Mueller report . ..."
As Donald Trump began his meteoric rise to the presidency,
the Obama White House summoned Ukrainian authorities to Washington to coordinate ongoing anti-corruption efforts inside Russia's
most critical neighbor.
The January 2016 gathering, confirmed by multiple participants and contemporaneous memos, brought some of Ukraine's top corruption
prosecutors and investigators face to face with members of former President Obama's National Security Council (NSC), FBI, State Department
and Department of Justice (DOJ).
That makes the January 2016 meeting one of the earliest documented efforts to build the now-debunked Trump-Russia collusion narrative
and one of the first to involve the Obama administration's intervention.
Spokespeople for the NSC, DOJ and FBI declined to comment. A representative for former Obama national security adviser Susan Rice
did not return emails seeking comment.
Nazar Kholodnytskyy, Ukraine's chief anti-corruption prosecutor, told me he attended some but not all of the January 2016
Washington meetings and couldn't remember the specific cases, if any, that were discussed.
But he said he soon saw evidence in Ukraine of
political meddling in the U.S. election . Kholodnytskyy said the key evidence against Manafort -- a ledger showing payments from
the Party of Regions -- was known to Ukrainian authorities since 2014 but was suddenly released in May 2016 by the U.S.-friendly
NABU, after Manafort was named Trump's campaign chairman: "Somebody kept this black ledger secret for two years and then showed it
to the public and the U.S. media. It was extremely suspicious."
Kholodnytskyy said he explicitly instructed NABU investigators who were working with American authorities not to share
the ledger with the media. "Look, Manafort's case is one of the cases that hurt me a lot," he said.
"I ordered the detectives to give nothing to the mass media considering this case. Instead, they had broken my order and published
themselves these one or two pages of this black ledger regarding Paul Manafort."
"For me it was the first call that something was going wrong and that there is some external influence in this case. And there
is some other interests in this case not in the interest of the investigation and a fair trial," he added.
Kostiantyn Kulyk, deputy head of the Ukraine prosecutor general's international affairs office, said that, shortly after Ukrainian
authorities returned from the Washington meeting, there was a clear message about helping the Americans with the Party of the Regions
case.
"Yes, there was a lot of talking about needing help and then the ledger just appeared in public," he recalled.
Kulyk said Ukrainian authorities had evidence
that other Western figures , such as former Obama White House counsel Gregory Craig, also received money from Yanukovych's party.
But the Americans weren't interested: "They just discussed Manafort. This was all and only what they wanted. Nobody else."
Manafort joined Trump's campaign on March 29, 2016, and then was promoted to campaign chairman on May 19, 2016.
NABU leaked the existence of the ledgers on May 29, 2016. Later that summer, it told U.S. media the ledgers showed payments to
Manafort, a revelation that forced him to resign from the campaign in August 2016.
A Ukrainian court in December concluded NABU's release of the ledger was an illegal attempt to influence the U.S. election. And
a member of Ukraine's parliament has released a recording of a NABU official saying the agency released the ledger to help Democratic
nominee Hillary Clinton's campaign.
The other case raised at the January 2016 meeting, Telizhenko said, involved
Burisma Holdings , a
Ukrainian energy company under investigation in Ukraine for improper foreign transfers of money. At the time, Burisma allegedly was
paying then-Vice President Joe Biden's son Hunter as both a board
member and a consultant. More than $3 million flowed from Ukraine to an American firm tied to Hunter Biden in 2014-15,
bank records show .
According to Telizhenko, U.S. officials told the Ukrainians they would prefer that Kiev drop the Burisma probe and allow the
FBI to take it over. The Ukrainians did not agree. But then Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to
fire Ukraine's chief prosecutor in March 2016, as I previously reported. The Burisma case was transferred to NABU, then shut
down.
The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington on Thursday confirmed the Obama administration requested the meetings in January 2016,
but embassy representatives attended only some of the sessions.
"Unfortunately, the Embassy of Ukraine in Washington, D.C., was not invited to join the DOJ and other law enforcement-sector meetings,"
it said. It said it had no record that the Party of Regions or Burisma cases came up in the meetings it did attend.
Ukraine is riddled with corruption, Russian meddling and intense political conflicts, so one must carefully consider any Ukrainian
accounts.
But Telizhenko's claim that the DOJ reopened its Manafort probe as the 2016 election ramped up is supported by the DOJ's own
documents, including communications involving Associate Attorney General Bruce Ohr, his wife, Nellie, and ex-British spy Christopher
Steele.
Nellie Ohr and Steele worked in 2016 for the research firm, Fusion GPS, that was hired by Clinton's campaign and the Democratic
National Committee (DNC) to find Russia dirt on Trump. Steele wrote the famous dossier for Fusion that the FBI used to gain a warrant
to spy on the Trump campaign. Nellie Ohr admitted to Congress that she routed Russia dirt on Trump from Fusion to the DOJ
through her husband during the election.
DOJ emails show Nellie Ohr on May 30, 2016, directly alerted her husband and two DOJ prosecutors specializing in international
crimes to the discovery of the "black ledger" documents that led to Manafort's prosecution.
"Reported Trove of documents on Ukrainian Party of Regions' Black Cashbox," Nellie Ohr
wrote to her husband and federal prosecutors
Lisa Holtyn and Joseph Wheatley, attaching
a news article
on the announcement of NABU's release of the documents.
Bruce Ohr and Steele worked on their own effort to get dirt on Manafort from a Russian oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, who had a soured
business relationship with him. Deripaska was "almost ready to talk" to U.S. government officials regarding the money that "Manafort
stole," Bruce Ohr wrote in notes from his conversations with Steele.
The efforts eventually led to a September 2016 meeting in which the
FBI asked Deripaska if he could help prove Manafort was helping Trump collude with Russia. Deripaska laughed off the notion as
preposterous.
Previously, Politico reported
that the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington assisted Clinton's campaign through a DNC contractor. The Ukrainian Embassy acknowledges
it got requests for assistance from the DNC staffer to find dirt on Manafort but denies it provided any improper assistance.
Now we have more concrete evidence that the larger Ukrainian government also was being pressed by the Obama administration
to help build the Russia collusion narrative. And that onion is only beginning to be peeled.
But what is already confirmed by Ukrainians looks a lot more like assertive collusion with a foreign power than anything detailed
in the Mueller report .
John Solomon is an award-winning investigative journalist whose work over the years has exposed U.S. and FBI intelligence
failures before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal scientists' misuse of foster children and veterans in drug experiments, and numerous
cases of political corruption. He serves as an investigative columnist and executive vice president for video at The Hill. Follow
him on Twitter @jsolomonReports
"... According to its filings to the US Department of Justice under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), BGR is a registered agent for none other than President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, whose ascension to Ukrainian presidency was brought about by the Maidan revolution of 2014, a coup cheered on most fervently by John McCain himself. ..."
"... It remains to be seen whether this relationship will change in June, when TV personality Volodymyr Zelensky takes office, having triumphed in a landslide runoff election this past weekend. Judging by Zelensky's official Facebook account of his February meeting with Volker – "a friend of Ukraine" with whom he "reached full understanding on all questions" – that seems unlikely, however. ..."
"... Turns out another McCain confidant, David Kramer , also works at Volker's institute, listed as "senior director for Human Rights and Democracy." Kramer was identified as the individual who during the 2016 campaign spread the "Steele Dossier" (accusing Trump of ties with Russia) to the press and a number of other people in Washington, including the "midwife of Maidan" herself, Victoria Nuland. ..."
US special envoy for Ukraine Kurt Volker is drawing a salary from John McCain's think tank,
which is funded by George Soros and a DC lobbying firm working for Ukrainian President Petro
Poroshenko, among others.
Volker was appointed Special Representative for Ukraine negotiations in July 2017, by
then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and has been "mediating" the Ukrainian crisis on behalf
of the US ever since in much the same way his colleague Elliott Abrams has
been doing with Venezuela.
The twist is that Volker is doing this " on
a voluntary basis without compensation" and "not taxing the taxpayers," drawing a salary
from his day job as executive director of the McCain Institute for International Leadership in
Arizona. Named after the late and hawkish US senator John McCain, the think tank is dedicated
to "advancing leadership in the United States and around the world." The two positions are very
much aligned, Volker has said, allowing him to get his "hands dirty and actually solve our
problems."
In practice, that means things like taking part in the "Occupied Crimea: 5 years of
resistance" conference in Odessa – the same city where US-backed nationalists burned
alive their political opponents in May 2014 – and parroting Bellingcat talking points on
the Kerch Strait incident, themselves cribbed from the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU).
This is not surprising, however, since the list of donors of the McCain Institute includes
something called the "BGR Foundation." It shares the same Washington, DC address – and
name – with Barbour Griffith Rogers, a high-profile lobbying firm that lists Volker as "Senior
International Advisor" and former international managing director.
According to its filings to the US
Department of Justice under the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA), BGR is a registered
agent for none other than President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, whose ascension to Ukrainian
presidency was brought about by the Maidan revolution of 2014, a coup cheered on most fervently
by John McCain himself.
The "National Reforms Council of Ukraine," which officially retained BGR's services, is led
by none other than Dmytro Shymkiv, "Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration of Ukraine,"
as per the filing BGR sent to the
DOJ in January 2017.
It remains to be seen whether this relationship will change in June, when TV personality
Volodymyr Zelensky takes office, having triumphed in a landslide
runoff election this past weekend. Judging by Zelensky's official Facebook
account of his February meeting with Volker – "a friend of Ukraine" with whom he
"reached full understanding on all questions" – that seems unlikely, however.
Whose envoy?
Volker was very close to the late Senator McCain, who was himself intimately involved with
the 2014 "revolution" in Kiev, visiting the demonstrators and personally sharing the stage with
Socialist-Nationalist Party leader Oleg Tyahnibok, for example. McCain was even offered an
advisory job with Poroshenko, back in 2015, but declined because that was not allowed under
US law.
Turns out another McCain confidant, David Kramer , also works at
Volker's institute, listed as "senior director for Human Rights and Democracy." Kramer was
identified as
the individual who during the 2016 campaign spread the "Steele Dossier" (accusing Trump of ties
with Russia) to the press and a number of other people in Washington, including the "midwife of
Maidan" herself, Victoria Nuland.
Among the McCain Institute's other donors are George Soros and his Open Society Foundations,
as well as Saudi Arabia – though Volker had to disavow them last year, calling it a
one-time donation and saying he won't
accept any more Saudi cash after the murder of Washington Post columnist Jamal
Khashoggi.
All of this adds up to the question no one seems to have asked yet: Whose interests in
Ukraine is Kurt Volker actually representing – those of the Trump administration, or
those of his donors and the ghost of John McCain?
No he is not. But he is the US puppet. Yet another neoliberal that will fleece Ukraine for the benefit of international
financial oligarchy.
The article is a usual incompetent neocon/neolib garbage and does not demonstrate any knowledge of the
Ukrainian political situation. But one paragraph does make sense. Zelensky was like Trump: he was
elected because the other candidate was despicable corrupt warmonger
The level of connections of Zelensky to oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi and Soros is still unclear.
Kolomoyskyi was rumored as one of the initiator and sponsors of Odessa massacre and the financier of pro-Nazi
Azov battalion (he is now hiding from persecution for his financial crimes in Israel) .
The
only question about Zelensky is whose puppet he is. Anyway Poor Ukraine is up top another round of stripping its wealth
by oligarchs and foreign financial sharks, while the standard of living will deteriorate and stay
of the same dismal level as now (essentially Central African poverty level).
Any attempt of Zelensky to escape the puppet status will be cut in short. In no way he can depose key officials from Nuland
junta which came in power in 2014, or challenge the power of the US embassy over Ukraine. With Biden in the past routinely
firing Ukrainian Chief Prosecutor, when he start digging on his son dealings in Ukraine.
Poroshenko lost not because Zelenskiy was better. Although hard to measure, it is perceived
by some in Ukraine's parliament that a vote for Zelenskiy was simply an anti-Poroshenko vote,
rather than a truly pro-Zelenskiy one.
Ukraine with the help of lunatics in the Washington, DC is moving to the right direction
in order to become Malorussia soon. It will not take long. Chervonarussia a.k.a. Ruthenia in
Hapsburg newspeak will take longer time. However, people in that region still identify
themselves as Russinians (Русины). With coming
dissolution of once Anglo-German-Dutch City-on-the-Hill into amorphous salad of different
cultures and total loss internal cohesion we may see comparative bloodless transition to new
era.
the gfc tells us otherwise. a financial collapse is a probable scenario; leading to a
prolonged depression. May not be the catastrophic vision our friend has in mind, but would be
pretty bad. Even in today's great economy forty million are living in poverty. Another
financial collapse could see that number double
"What lessons can Western policymakers learn from Poroshenko's crushing defeat?"
A pointless question as the US/EU establishment don't seem to be able to accept the
reality of what is happening, and won't accept any lessons as that might get in the way of
the Neoliberal globalist expansionist agenda and undermine its supporting narratives.
Zelensky won't be a quantum improvement, but at least he isn't a raving Ultra-nationalist
looney. He's not much more that the Ukro version of Frances Micron, a political light-weight
foisted onto the public by the mostly-hidden hand of corrupt Oilgarchs. Ukraines rot from
within will continue...
As most Russians, I don't have high hopes for Zelensky. Almost certainly, his campaign was
bankrolled by oligarch Kolomoisky. So he will represent the interests of large money, not of
Ukranian people. And he will have to deal with these crazy nationalists, which are over 25%
of population. And the debts with IMF strings attached. He stood on his knees at the debate
with Poroshenko - I think he will have to be forced to do that more often than that during
his presidency.
Donbass will remain the festering wound in Ukraines side that weakens and eventually
destroys the accursed Banderite state. Russia needs to keep up the pressure and ensure that
the DPR/LPR can defend themselves against the Kiev regime and make sure the nationalist
whack-jobs understand that any attempt to seizethe territory of Free Ukraine will result in a
world of pain descending on their heads. Time is on Russia's side as the US loses focus, the
EU loses interest, and the harsh realities of geo-politics and economics takes its toll on
the bumbling tin-pot kleptocracy that Ukr has become.
Parashenko is criminal. The same as Saakashvili. Both shelled peaceful living homes from
artillery and with rockets. They both deserve to be hanged. But the West calls them
"democrats".
Western policy is infinitely malleable and adaptable to whatever agenda they want to
pursue. They will defend the Banderite madhouse in Ukropistan as a "democracy" (even as it
makes war on its own people) yet insist that Venezuela is a dictatorship, despite the free
and fair elections that return the Chavistas to power, time and time again. They will rail
against Russia for being "corrupt" (even though they jail senior figures who still try to
extract Yeltsin-era "tributes") yet strain their collectives necks as they look away from
watching Ukr regime insiders conduct outright theft of IMF loan cash.
Sometimes, too little pride in one's nation can be a problem, providing no sense of
cohesion, purpose or unity. And sometimes, too much pride can also be equally
problematic.
Is it liberal to complain about not being hard enough on Russia?
Interesting that Hillary Clinton said Trump was a "Russian puppet" (probably after
Obama sent the FBI after the GOP campaign) and NBC's Holt (Nov 9 2016) said the US
election was a Russian coup. Since when (except maybe if Joe McCarthy were a
democrat).
A parallel maybe. In Ukraine since 2004 the popularly elected president was deposed
twice by extreme right wing ultra nationalists. In 2014 the popular Yanukovych was
deposed in the Maidan revolution with help from the US replaced with no election by Petro
Poroshenko.
Sunday we hear that a comedian Zelenskiy soundly beat Poroshenko in a popular
vote.
To this Poroshenko: "Poroshenko said on social media he thought Zelenskiy's win would
spark celebrations in the Kremlin."
"They believe that with a new inexperienced Ukrainian president, Ukraine could be
quickly returned to Russia's orbit of influence," he wrote.
Clinton and Holt could be writing for Poroshenko, a far right wing ultra
nationalist!
I worry a lot about Obama's spying on the Trump campaign and the supposed liberals in
this country sounding like far right, ultra nationalist, looking for a new, expensive
cold war!
Israel and the Ukraine are now the two countries on the planet in which both the
President [Zelenskii] and the Prime-Minister [Groisman] are Jews
just a day after his election Zelenskii is already making all sorts of anti-Russian
statements.
since Zelenskii has no personal power base of any kind, Kolomoiskii will have him do
exactly as he is told and Kolomoiskii can easily be told to behave by the Empire.
Here is a new ruler of Ukraine, the Israeli/Ukrainian/Swiss citizen Kolomoisky
:
The ethnically Jewish Kolomojsky has been the main financier of Azov Battalion
:
The Azov Battalion was initially formed out of the neo-Nazi gang Patriot of Ukraine.
Azov Battalion -- which is accused of human-rights abuses, including torture, by Human
Rights Watch and the United Nations -- was incorporated into Ukraine's National Guard.
The New York Times called the battalion "openly neo-Nazi," while USA Today, The Daily
Beast, The Telegraph, and Haaretz documented group members' proclivity for swastikas,
salutes, and other Nazi symbols
Five years after the " EuroMaidan " protests in Kiev and elsewhere
toppled the government of now-exiled former president Viktor Yanukovych, the people of Ukraine
are set to elect a new leader. Over 34 million Ukrainian citizens will be eligible to cast
their vote on 31 March ,
although several million will be prevented from participating due to the ongoing conflict
situation in the country's eastern Donbass region. Should none of the candidates receive an
absolute majority, a second round of voting will be held on 21 April.
Ukraine consistently ranks among the poorest countries in Europe – last year it
overtook Moldova to occupy the top spot in the list. The largest post-Soviet state after Russia
in terms of population, it finds itself torn between the European Union promising economic
integration and a limited degree of freedom of movement, and deepening the country's
relationship with Moscow, the largest consumer of Ukrainian exports to which Ukraine is tied by
centuries of shared history, tradition, and repeated conflict.
EuroMaidan exacerbated the country's ongoing economic decline and
mounting social pressures in 2013–14, ultimately triggering the war in the Donbass
region and the Russian annexation of the Crimean peninsula. These tensions have facilitated the
rise of a vicious
Ukrainian nationalism that the government led by current president Petro Poroshenko is not
afraid to manipulate for its own purposes. Attacks on left-wing activists and ethnic minorities
are becoming increasingly common, while armed far-right paramilitaries like the so-called "Azov
Battalion" are
normalized and integrated into mainstream political life.
That said, not everyone in Ukraine is happy about these developments. Although none of the
candidates in the upcoming elections offer a particularly radical or progressive vision for the
country, voters will at least be able to decide whether to endorse Poroshenko's current course
or throw their support behind another figure. Loren Balhorn of the Rosa-Luxemburg-Stiftung
spoke with Kiev-based sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko to get a better understanding of the
candidates, the state of the county, and what is at stake for the people of Ukraine in
2019.
Loren Balhorn (LB): Ukraine is scheduled to hold presidential elections at the end of the
month, preceding elections to the national
parliament , or "Verkhovna Rada," later this year. Is there anything special about the
timing? What exactly is the president's role in the Ukrainian political system, and what
implications will the vote have for parliamentary elections in October?
Volodymyr Ishchenko (VI): The timing is simple: it's been five years since 2014 and the
Maidan Uprising, when snap elections were called that saw Viktor Yanukovych and his Party of
Regions lose a lot of strength. The first round of the presidential elections is at the end of
the month, and it is very likely that there will be a second round because no candidate will
receive over 50 per cent (at least according to polls).
The president is very important in Ukrainian politics. The country is formally a
parliamentary-presidential system, neither fully parliamentary nor fully presidential, but this
is a very uneasy balance of power. The prime minister is an important position elected by the
parliamentary majority, but the president also has influence over important government
ministers. As is true of many post-Soviet states, however, beyond this formal institutional
division of powers the informal divisions are much more decisive. Who is loyal to whom and who
is dependent on whom plays a much bigger role in "real" Ukrainian politics than formal powers
and privileges.
Petro
Poroshenko , the current president, is the most important person in Ukrainian politics. His
powers are formally limited but he has other ways to exercise influence and his own party, the
"Petro Poroshenko Bloc" that forms the government together with the "People's Front," the party
of former Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk. Another important figure in that party is the
current Minister of Internal Affairs, Arsen Avakov , who is also a very wealthy
man.
LB: Avakov also cultivates ties to the Azov Battalion, no?
VI: This is widely suspected, but the precise nature of those ties has never been proven. I
am skeptical of the idea that the Azov Battalion is merely a puppet of Avakov,
I suspect it is something like a mutually beneficial cooperation.
If Poroshenko loses we will see a lot of defections by MPs from his bloc. Ukrainian politics
operates as what political scientists call a "neopatrimonial regime," meaning it is
characterized by rival, informal power blocs. If the Poroshenko Bloc loses, it will reshuffle
loyalties in the parliament from one patriarch to another.
LB: What do you mean by "neopatrimonial regime"?
VI: By that I mean Ukrainian politics is characterized by competition between various power
blocs, you could also call them pyramids or even clans. Poroshenko builds his pyramid while
Arakov builds his own pyramid, etc. The current Prime Minister, Volodymyr Groysman, was
originally perceived as a loyalist of Poroshenko, but now even he seems to be cultivating his
own pyramid and will probably triangulate between various political blocs.
LB: How did Groysman come to replace Yatsenyuk?
VI: As friction between Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk grew, Poroshenko financed a public campaign
against him, attacking him and calling for his resignation. But Yatsenyuk had a lot of support
from the West, especially the U.S. Vice-President at the time, Joe Biden. Eventually an
agreement was reached that he would step down and be replaced by Groysman.
This represented a conflict between different patrimonial structures within the governing
elite, but also reflected a wider conflict between Ukrainian oligarchs and the West more
generally. Many leftists in Ukraine see the country as a colony of the United States, but it's
much more complicated than that. Ukraine is definitely dependent on Western economic and
financial aid, political support against Russia, etc., but it's not a colony – it's not
ruled from the American Embassy. Local oligarchs like Poroshenko and Arakov have their own
interests that they defend staunchly against the West. At its core, this is a conflict between
transnational capital and the local bourgeoisie.
One key issue in these debates, and the crucial issue for the West and the IMF, was
corruption and the establishment of "anti-corruption" institutions to ensure transparent rules
of the game in Ukraine. But what they call "corruption" is basically the most important
advantage that the Ukrainian bourgeoisie has against transnational capital: namely, their
property is secure from the state while that of their competitors is not. This is also what
scares away potential international investors. Because of this fear, foreign direct investment
(FDI) is actually declining despite the Ukrainian government's steps toward Western
integration.
LB: So fear of corruption is harming investment?
VI: Yes, although the war is of course another factor.
In the beginning, in 2014 and 2015, we had a lot of people in the government without
Ukrainian citizenship who received their positions because they were neoliberal,
Western-oriented professionals, like the Lithuanian citizen Aivaras Abromavičius who was a
minister under Yatsenyuk. Gradually, those neoliberal reformers were pushed out and replaced by
people loyal to the ruling oligarchs. Yatsenyuk being replaced by Groysman was just one
particularly important example of this process.
LB: It sounds like a pretty grim scenario. But even if electoral politics is just
competition between oligarchic factions, certainly there must be some other issues being
debated at least on the surface? What are the dominant themes the candidates are using to
attract support?
VI: Poroshenko has been most successful in setting the agenda with an aggressively
nationalist campaign – his main slogan is "Army, Faith, Language." He side-lined the
socially populist issues that Yulia Tymoshenko tried to raise by
portraying the election as a choice between him or Putin and depicting his opponents as puppets
of Moscow.
LB: And is it working?
VI: Yes, to some extent. His support has been rising in the polls since the recognition of
the independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church by the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.
LB: Was that split between the Ukrainian Church and Moscow supported by the government?
VI: Yes, it was actively organized by Poroshenko as a strategy to win the election.
Formally, the Ukrainian Orthodox church enjoyed broad autonomy but was dependent on the Moscow
Patriarchate and was recognized by other Orthodox churches. A separate church founded in the
early 1990s, the Kiev Patriarchate, was unrecognized by any other international church but
still fairly popular in the country. In reality most people didn't care which church they
attended. The split was purely political, there were no theological differences.
Poroshenko started to push the theme in 2017 and 2018 that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was
something like an "agent of Moscow" in Ukraine. The details are quite complicated, and to be
honest many people in Ukraine didn't really understand these structures until last year either,
but for people who care about national issues, who care about Ukraine asserting itself against
Russia, this was an important step. Nevertheless, it looks like the majority of local parishes
will actually stay with the Moscow Patriarchate.
LB: You have alluded to the conflict with Russia several times now as setting the terms of
the debate, and making it easier for politicians to distract from social questions by focusing
on nationalism. Is there any kind of visible, vaguely progressive social opposition in the
country?
VI: Most politicians and the three leading candidates for the president are not
significantly different on the question of the conflict in the Donbass region. Poroshenko,
Tymoshenko, and Volodymyr Zelensky are all within the patriotic consensus, although Poroshenko
is more militant. Candidates who actually have a different opinion and are not as popular
sprang from the former Party of Regions, later branded the "Opposition Bloc." They failed to
negotiate a common candidate for the so-called "Southeast," the region where the
Russian-speaking minority mostly lives. Despite raising important issues like peace in Donbass,
re-claiming national sovereignty from the West, and re-industrialization, these candidates
– Yuriy Boyko and Oleksandr Vilkul – are representatives of major oligarchic
financial-industrial groups. There is no significant "grassroots" movement behind the issues.
There are of course labour struggles, and there have been some strikes, but they are weak.
There are some feminist mobilizations but they are miniscule compared to the radical
nationalists. Not just the anti-capitalist "Left," but also progressive liberalism is very
weak.
The Left is in a bad
situation. The
Communist Party has been banned. They are appealing the ban but their public visibility has
declined to practically zero. Their leader, Petro Symonenko, tried to register as a
presidential candidate but was not accepted by the government, and no other relevant left-wing
parties exist on the national level.
LB: Government corruption, oligarchic control of the economy, a decimated Left – a lot
of this sounds familiar. Couldn't we, at least to some extent, compare conditions in Ukraine to
the situation in all of the former Eastern Bloc countries?
VI: I don't think so. EU membership makes a big difference, it imposes certain rules that
are absent in Ukraine. The presence of strong oligarchs, for example, is pretty specific. The
other Eastern Bloc countries don't have a strong local bourgeoisie, but are largely dominated
by Western capital. There are no Polish oligarchs, Czech oligarchs, Hungarian oligarchs –
we only hear about Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs. What makes Ukraine different is that the
oligarchic system is pluralistic. We have multiple, competing oligarchs, whereas in Russia and
Belarus one neopatrimonial pyramid managed to emerge as dominant in the last 15 years.
The promise of EU membership restructured Eastern European politics beginning in the 1990s,
whereas this was never a prospect in Ukraine, Russia, or Belarus. But we still didn't see the
rise of any figure like Vladimir Putin or an Alexander Lukashenko in Ukraine. I think this has
to do with the country's divided identity: almost every election has been framed as a question
of "East vs. West," with one candidate supported by the western half and the other by the
eastern half. In this sense it's comparable with Donald Trump: any time a Ukrainian president
comes to power he is opposed by half the population from day one. This makes it very difficult
to consolidate nationwide power.
LB: Are there not also economic aspects to the East/West division?
VI: Yes, the East has more heavy, Soviet-era industry, exporting primarily to the markets of
the former USSR and uncompetitive on Western markets. For example, the people supporting
Yanukovych and opposing EuroMaidan were at least partially concerned about keeping their jobs
in a Ukrainian economy dominated by the EU.
LB: So it's not only a nationalist issue, but also one of bread-and-butter economic
issues?
VI: Yes, absolutely.
LB: Speaking of "East vs. West," has anything changed since Ukraine's accession to the
visa-free regime for Schengen states in 2017?
VI: That was one of very few positive developments under Poroshenko, and he's touting it a
lot during the campaign. Freedom of movement is of course something good and something we
support, but it was particularly good for younger, highly educated Ukrainians in the major
cities.
It has also facilitated increased labour migration, which has really risen since 2014. I
don't have any precise statistics but we're talking about millions of people. Many Ukrainians
go to work in Poland, which actively recruits them because they are seen as culturally and
linguistically "closer" to Poles (unlike refugees from the Middle East). You could say that
cheap Ukrainian labour is subsidizing the Polish economic boom. The Czech Republic is also
popular, and Germany will probably be next.
As workers from the eastern EU states like Bulgaria and Poland move west to work they're
replaced by cheaper labour from Ukraine, but no one moves to Ukraine. There is a lot of
discussion in the Ukrainian media about how it simply does not make sense to work in the
country when you can make two or three times more across the border.
LB: But does this not mean that the Ukrainian labour market is gradually getting tighter?
Wouldn't it at least theoretically put organized labour in a more advantageous position to
fight for higher wages?
VI: Yes, theoretically! But Ukrainian trade unions are very weak, and they have failed to
take advantage of the situation.
LB: You recently gave an interview to Jacobin
Magazine in which you compared the situation of the Ukrainian Left with that of
Latin America in the 1970s. I found that very striking, given that the Left was quite large in
Latin America at the time and microscopic in Ukraine today. Could you flesh out that comparison
a bit? Where exactly do you see similarities?
VI: Ukraine is a deindustrializing, peripheral economy. Most Soviet-era industry fell apart
after 1991, and what remains is not competitive on the Western European market. Ukraine has
thus become a supplier of raw materials with low added value like iron. In this sense it is a
very peripheral capitalism characterized by extreme inequality and powerful oligarchs, like
Latin America. There is also the major role played by far-right paramilitaries – this
doesn't happen anywhere else in Europe, except for briefly in former Yugoslavia. We also have a
strongly pro-American and highly dependent government, very similar to Latin America.
I think it's logical to look for comparisons and lessons from similar historical social
formations. If the Ukrainian Left is looking to fight a corrupt, authoritarian, anti-Communist
regime, and given how weak the Left and even liberalism is, we have to work together to fight
for basic democratic rights and against the nationalist hysteria to lay the base for a movement
that could perhaps become more significant in the future. Here I see parallels to the Latin
American Left's struggle against dictatorship in the 1970s and 1980s.
LB: Do you think it's possible in a geopolitical situation where tensions between the EU and
Russia are so prominent to formulate a broad, democratic programme that stands above this
fray?
VI: It's obviously very difficult, but what other options do we have? Become puppets in the
geopolitical game? There was a split on the Left in 2014 when many chose EuroMaidan and the
"West" while others chose Anti-Maidan and the "Russian" side. Both sides ended up tailing more
powerful right-wing forces and failed to formulate their own independent positions.
LB: But would anything else have been possible?
VI: Well, obviously we can't seriously entertain the building of a strong left-wing party
under such difficult conditions. What is possible, however, is to maintain some kind of milieu
for left-wing ideas. The groups and networks that exist have to consolidate a possible embryo
for a strong Left in the future. It's important to be realistic and understand what's
possible or completely impossible. We might not be able to formulate some kind of "Third Camp"
in Ukrainian politics right now, but that is our objective situation, and we should try to
figure out what we can realistically do. We should work on strengthening our groups, our
unions, our intellectual initiatives, to hopefully be able to do something bigger in the
future.
Corbyn, Podemos, and Mélenchon are inspiring figures, but we need to understand what
is specific about the political regime in our country and respond in a specific way. We need to
try to expand the range of the possible for left politics at the moment. Even if it isn't so
inspiring and very weak, we still have to try. The kind of system that exists in Ukraine can't
last forever. There are many contradictions, divisions, and cleavages exacerbated by the ruling
groups, and all of these will lead to a situation at some point where weaker groups might
become politically relevant and important again.
LB: Before we wrap up I wanted to ask you about the third major candidate, Volodymyr Zelensky . If I
understand correctly, he stars in a TV show about a politician and has now become the
politician he plays on TV. Is that correct – and is he popular? Does he have a chance at
winning or is this a stunt?
VI: Actually, he's currently the most popular politician in the country. According to polls
he has significantly more support than both Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, and could very possibly
become the president.
There are basically three groups of people voting for him: firstly, fans of his TV show, a
very popular comedy about Ukrainian politics. Another large group are just so disappointed and
tired of these oligarchs that they will vote for any fresh face.
LB: So he's similar to Donald Trump in some ways?
VI: In some ways, but what's different from Trump is the third group of his supporters,
namely people who are voting for him because he is perceived as less nationalist than the other
candidates. Zelensky himself is Russian-speaking, he's from the central Ukrainian city of
Kryvyi Rih, and has attracted lots of support from Russian-speaking citizens.
That makes Zelensky different from Trump – he's actually trying to campaign on
unifying themes, not divisive ones. He opposes Poroshenko's attempts to push the Ukrainian
language on Russian speakers, for example.
Another thing that makes him different from Trump or Beppe Grillo is that he has no populist
movement behind him, or any movement at all for that matter. All he has is his TV show, around
which he is now trying to build a political party from scratch. This is different from other
populist figures – there was no mass mobilization preceding him. Trump, for example, is
obviously somehow a result of the Tea Party movement, while Grillo represents the Five Stars
Movement (in Italy).
Another difference is his connection to Igor Kolomoisky, one of Ukraine's richest oligarchs
now in opposition to Poroshenko who founded the country's largest bank, Privat Bank, and still
owns a controlling share of the national airline. Zelensky's show is broadcast on one of
Kolomoisky's eight TV stations, and one of his lawyers is a key architect of Zelensky's party,
Sluha Narodu , which translates to "Servant of the People" (also the name of his show).
Right now it's not possible to say how independent Zelensky is. I wouldn't call him a puppet,
but there are definitely connections to the ruling class.
All of this means that Zelensky will be very weak if he wins, and not only because he's
inexperienced. For the first half year he won't have much support in parliament. He has no
loyal political party behind him. He will surely get some opportunists to defect from other
parties, but hardly a majority. I don't know what he could do in that situation. After the
parliamentary elections he might face a more favourable constellation, but it will also depend
on how he does in the first months.
It's impossible to say how he would perform as president. He has zero political experience.
I fear that he may understand politics even less than Donald Trump. He is a blank page on which
anything can be written.
LB: So he reflects the vacuum in civil society more generally?
VI: Exactly. He is a glaring symptom of what's going on in Ukrainian society. People hate
the oligarchs, they hate the faces they've seen for decades. Revolutions come and go, elections
come and go, but life just gets worse and worse. People don't want another five years of
Tymoshenko or Poroshenko and are happy to vote for any recognizable fresh face who isn't
implicated in serious corruption. People are voting less out of hope than out of anger. Better
to vote for an incompetent comedian than the same old corrupt experts.
At the same time, civil society is so weak that it couldn't put up any competing figure.
Only a TV star was able to do that, nobody from the pro-Western, liberal NGOs came even close.
None of those figures poll even one per cent. This says a lot about Ukrainian "civil society":
it's totally incapable of producing competent, popular leaders.
If he is elected, it will be strong proof that the people are sick of the old style of
politics, that they aren't being manipulated by Poroshenko's nationalism and want something
better. Nevertheless, I am very sceptical that Zelensky will be able to change anything. Real
change in Ukraine will be a much longer process, and will require the building of a different
kind of political opposition that we haven't seen in this country for a very long time.
•
This article first published on the Rosalux.de
website.
President without his own party is lame duck President; a puppet. If it is true that Zelenski is really man of Soros and was
elected on Soros money that's a very bad omen. That's probably the worst possible scenario.
At the same time in Ukraine allegiance to a party is weak and some deputies might switch sides forming kind of "Zelenski
block" similar to "Block of Petr Poroshenko" so he can create some sudo-party. Also
he cancel the reelection of the Parliament. But he will need to deal with Yulia Timoshenko who is the leader of Batkivshchina
party and that will not be easy.
Might well be variation of the theme of Saakashvili. Dmitry Babish said that Zelenski is a neoliberal who is surrounded by
Soros people and several foreign born ministers that Poroshenko fired. His connection to the notorious oligarch Kolomoyski is
another very bad sign.
Notable quotes:
"... hope for Ukraine but I did not know that in Zelensky team there are Soros people according to the specialist in Moscow. ..."
"... I see Ukraine pulled a Trump. Good luck with that. What could possibly go wrong? ..."
hope for Ukraine but I did not know that in Zelensky team there are Soros people according to the specialist in
Moscow. Anyhow this analysis was very interesting
AJ what's your report card on Poroshenko, the chocolate king? I recall Poroshenko ordered
his troops to attack and bomb east Ukraine, Ukraine's own territory. I doubt the Russian
speaking Ukrainians have a tattoo on their forehead identified them as such. a comic won't do
any worse than a US selected oligarch.
USA elected Trump as president, a man with no political experience. In the UK we elect
politicians and end up with jokers. Good luck Ukraine I really hope it works for you.
"... Poroshenko's government greatly encouraged glorification of those troops and leaders as fighters for Ukrainian freedom who it insisted sided with Germany only in order to fight against the Russian-controlled Soviet Union. ..."
"... Meanwhile, in the western city of Lviv, nationalists became emboldened enough to celebrate with city authorities' permission the anniversary of the 14th Galician division of the Waffen SS. The anniversary events featured men parading in Nazi SS uniforms on the street. ..."
"... On this subject, Zelensky has said only that he personally does not favor the veneration of people like Bandera, whom he described as "a hero to some Ukrainians." It was a markedly reserved formulation compared to the unreserved endorsement of figures like Bandera by officials under Poroshenko. ..."
"... In some far-right circles, Zelensky's work in a television stationed owned by the Jewish billionaire Igor Kolomoisky was proof of his belonging to a "Jewish cabal." But it made Zelensky popular with other nationalists who appreciated Kolomoisky's reputation as a fiery patriot. ..."
"... Not denying his Jewish ancestry, Zelensky declined to explore it at length in the interview, Levy wrote. On this subject, he replied with typical self-deprecating humor, telling Levy: "The fact that I am Jewish barely makes 20 in my long list of faults." ..."
"... This popularity has allowed Zelensky to both win on an unusually vague platform and distinguish himself from his professional politician rivals, with their proclivity to hyperbole and nationalist slogans. ..."
"... For example, when a reporter asked him how he would deal with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Zelensky reverted to his comic roots, saying "I would speak to him at eye level." It was a reference to him and Putin being at least three inches shorter than Poroshenko, a 6-footer. ..."
"... "We will need to wait and see what kind of president Zelensky turns out to be," said Dolinsky, who was an outspoken critic of some policies of the Poroshenko administration. "What is clear is that Poroshenko's attempt to appeal to nationalism has failed. Ukrainians said they wanted change. And I am feeling optimistic." ..."
Ukrainian comedian and presidential candidate Volodymyr Zelensky reacts after the announcement of the first exit poll results in
the second round of Ukraine's presidential election at his campaign headquarters in Kiev on April 21, 2019. (Photo by Sergei GAPON
/ AFP) JTA -- Following the victory of Volodymyr Zelensky in Ukraine's presidential elections, the country will become the only one
in the world besides Israel whose president and prime minister are both Jewish.
When Zelensky is sworn in as president, his prime minister -- at least for a while and possibly until the parliamentary elections
scheduled to take place sometime later this year -- will be Volodymyr Groysman, a Jewish politician who was the mayor of the city
of Vinnytsia.
To some of incumbent Petro Poroshenko's critics, the landslide success of the vague campaign by the politically inexperienced
Zelensky, a comedian, was not surprising in light of widespread resentment over the persistence of corruption under Poroshenko, who
was elected in 2014 on a platform that vowed remedial action on exactly that front.
More unusual to some, however, was how Zelensky's appears to have won the elections so decisively in spite of how his Jewish ancestry
– his mother, Rima, is Jewish and he has jokingly referred to this during the campaign -- is well known in Ukraine.
After all, Russia and other critics claim Ukrainian society has a serious anti-Semitism problem and legacy.
"Imagine, a pure-blooded Jew with the appearance of a Sholom Aleichem protagonist wins by a landslide in a country where
the glorification of Nazi criminals is enacted into law," wrote Avigdor Eskin, a Russian-Israeli columnist, in an analysis published
earlier this month by the Regnum news agency.
Eskin in column on Zelensky downplayed allegations of widespread anti-Semitism in Ukraine, attributing much of the attention to
the problem in media and beyond to propaganda by Russia, which is involved in an armed conflict over territory with Ukraine. But
Eskin's statement about Ukrainian laws glorifying Nazi criminals is not inaccurate, and Russia is not alone in criticizing Ukraine
over this and other issues connected to anti-Semitism.
Last year, Israel's government singled out Ukraine as a regional trouble spot in the Israeli government's annual report on anti-Semitism.
"A striking exception in the trend of decrease in anti-Semitic incidents in Eastern Europe was Ukraine, where the number of recorded
anti-Semitic attacks was doubled from last year and surpassed the tally for all the incidents reported throughout the entire region
combined," the report said. The authors of the report counted more than 130 reported anti-Semitic incidents in Ukraine in 2017, they
said.
Also last year, more than 50 US Congress members condemned Ukrainian legislation that they said "glorifies Nazi collaborators"
and therefore goes even further than Poland's controversial laws limiting what can be said about local complicity during the Holocaust.
A letter signed by the US lawmakers stated, "It's particularly troubling that much of the Nazi glorification in Ukraine is government-supported."
It noted ceremonies, gestures and legislation venerating leaders of the UPA and OUN militias, who fought alongside Nazi Germany during
World War II and whose troops participated in atrocities against Jews and other victims.
Poroshenko's government greatly encouraged glorification of those troops and leaders as fighters for Ukrainian freedom who
it insisted sided with Germany only in order to fight against the Russian-controlled Soviet Union.
Several cities across Ukraine named streets for the Nazi-collaborator Stepan Bandera, who prior to Poroshenko's time in office
was openly glorified only in the country's west.
Meanwhile, in the western city of Lviv, nationalists became emboldened enough to celebrate with city authorities' permission
the anniversary of the 14th Galician division of the Waffen SS. The anniversary events featured men parading in Nazi SS uniforms
on the street.
Such sights would have been unthinkable under Viktor Yanukovych, the corrupt president who was deposed in a 2013 revolution that
ended with Poroshenko's election. Careful to alienate neither ethnic Russians in Ukraine nor its powerful neighbor to the east, Yanukovych
was less tolerant of this nationalist phenomenon.
On this subject, Zelensky has said only that he personally does not favor the veneration of people like Bandera, whom he described
as "a hero to some Ukrainians." It was a markedly reserved formulation compared to the unreserved endorsement of figures like Bandera
by officials under Poroshenko.
The presidential campaign itself has featured some anti-Semitism. In some far-right circles, Zelensky's work in a television
stationed owned by the Jewish billionaire Igor Kolomoisky was proof of his belonging to a "Jewish cabal." But it made Zelensky popular
with other nationalists who appreciated Kolomoisky's reputation as a fiery patriot.
Alexander Paliy, an influential political analyst supporting Poroshenko, last month stirred controversy when he wrote on Facebook
that, despite his "respect" for Jews and some Russians, "The president of Ukraine should be Ukrainian and Christian, like the absolute
majority of Ukrainians."
Such rhetoric is shocking to many of Ukraine's 300,000-odd Jews, whose ancestors suffered murderous anti-Semitism in Ukraine for
centuries before, during and decades after the Holocaust.
The French-Jewish philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy also referenced Ukrainian Jew's bloody history in an interview with Zelensky,
the 41-year-old son of scientists who lived near major Soviet army bases in Ukraine, that he published earlier this month in the
Le Point weekly.
"His Judaism. It's extraordinary that the possible future president of the country of the Shoah by Bullets and Babi Yar is a self-affirmed
Jew from a family of survivors from Kryvy Rih near Dnipro – the land of pogrom if ever there was one," Levy wrote. "This postmodern
kid, is he new proof that the virus of anti-Semitism has been contained" after the revolution, Levy added.
Not denying his Jewish ancestry, Zelensky declined to explore it at length in the interview, Levy wrote. On this subject,
he replied with typical self-deprecating humor, telling Levy: "The fact that I am Jewish barely makes 20 in my long list of faults."
Zelensky, whose mother, Rima, is Jewish, has ingratiated himself with the Ukrainian public with such jokes as the star of "Servant
of the People" – a primetime television show where he portrays a teacher thrust by an unlikely chain of events to become Ukraine's
president. He announced his candidacy in January, becoming an instant favorite.
This popularity has allowed Zelensky to both win on an unusually vague platform and distinguish himself from his professional
politician rivals, with their proclivity to hyperbole and nationalist slogans.
For example, when a reporter asked him how he would deal with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Zelensky reverted to his comic
roots, saying "I would speak to him at eye level." It was a reference to him and Putin being at least three inches shorter than Poroshenko,
a 6-footer.
Zelensky opaqueness means a high level of uncertainty, Dolinsky, the Jewish community leader, said.
"We will need to wait and see what kind of president Zelensky turns out to be," said Dolinsky, who was an outspoken critic
of some policies of the Poroshenko administration. "What is clear is that Poroshenko's attempt to appeal to nationalism has failed.
Ukrainians said they wanted change. And I am feeling optimistic."
It is clear that like in Trump vs Hillary situation many voted not for Zelensky but against
Poroshenko. Coul be that the same screwed political consultants who ensured Trump victory work in
Ukraine.
Zelensky is that same candidate as Obama, Trump and Macron: he has zero political history. So
you can project into him the expectation of electorate and that trick works. During the campaign,
concerns were raised over his links to the oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi (he proposed a tax amnesty
and a 5% flat tax for big
business ).
From Wikipedia: In an interview in December 2018, Zelensky stated that as President he would
try to end the ongoing
War in Donbass by
negotiating with Russia .
[49]
As he considered the leaders of the Donetsk People's Republic and the
Luhansk
People's Republic (DPR and LPR) to be Russia's "puppets", it would "make no sense to speak
with them". [49]
He did not rule out holding a referendum on the issue. [50][49]
In an interview published three days before the 2019 presidential election (on 21 April) Zelensky
stated that he was against granting the Donbass region "special status". [51]
In the interview he also said that if he were elected President he would not sign a law on
amnesty for the militants of the DPR and LPR. [51]
Edited Google translation.
Using phase form cult novel The Golden Calf by Ilya Ilf and
Evgeny Petrov "Children of lieutenant Schmidt" Poroshenko can be called a son of undersecretary
Nuland. He has no space for maneuver, space for negotiation as confrontation with Russia is the
geopolitical goal of neocon establishment which stands behind Victoria Nuland. That's probably
why he lost.
Poroshenko's triad -- "faith, army, language" -- was not born from scratch. Poroshenko
emphasized Ukrainization of all aspects of the country's life. In culture, history, even the
economics. Especially in the economics. All these decisions, orders and sanctions were aimed at
cutting economic ties with Russia under very simple ideological basis -- "Ukrainization uber
alles"
Of course, this was a gesture of despair of the man who came to power via "Washington Obcom"
at a time when Ukraine already lost a part of its territory -- the Crimea and was on the verge
of even greater loss -- Donbass, and maybe the entire South-East.
Poroshenko in this situation enforced blatant confrontation with Russia (instead of
negotiations and search of compromises) as the tool to unite the nation against common enemy.
Having accepted the obvious situation in which he can do nothing to return the lost territories
(and it would be unprofitable for him politically), he pushed the confrontation as if there is
no tomorrow, please his US sponsors. Which resulted is sliding of the standard of living as
lost markets at the East were not compensated by new market at the West. He unleashed personal
war with Russia hoping that it will help to survive him politically and instead it
backfired.
In other words Poroshenko assumed that he can unite Ukranina peole of the base of the his
fight with Russia. A common enemy always unites rulers and people.
However, during the presidential elections, which were held just five years after the
triumph of nationalist ideology on EuroMaydan, it turned out that this the majority of the
population does not share this ideology with Pyotr Alekseevich. And that the sliding standard
of living, rampant inflation and personal corruption of EuroMaydan junta has a greater
weight.
The majority, apparently, doesn't want exclusivity of the Ukrainian nation... They want
European standard of living.
While the world mourns the victims of today's terrorist atrocities in Sri Lanka, Ukraine has
conducted its first election since 2014 -- the year in which the fragmented post-Soviet
republic changed forever. This year, the debates were not a contest between those seeking to
reverse the tide of 2014 versus those committed to an even more radically pro-western approach,
but instead the question uniformly revolved around how a country that before 2014 was
ethnically and religious fragmented, poor, corrupt and seemingly ungovernable has become even
worse by all objective measurements.
Because of the popular discontent in the country due to the worsening of already abysmal
economic conditions, it was always going to be difficult for outgoing President Petro
Poroshenko to play the jingoistic anti-Russian/anti-Donbass card when most Ukrainian citizens
are becoming more worried about the price of gas and the price of food than they are worried
about playing a game of political football started by Barack Obama.
As such, the entire political class that took charge after 2014 (ironically many such people
were connected to the old regime they claimed to hate) are roundly reviled throughout Ukraine.
Against this background, comedian Volodymyr Zelensky decided to run for president and early
indications are that he has won the election in a landslide.
Zelensky's campaign was one based on a broadly anti-corruption platform that was as
pro-western and as anti-Russian as that of his closest rivals. The difference was that for the
first time in its history, Ukraine had a political figure with a human face rather than that of
a cold, calculating oligarch aspiring to be an autocrat. Outside of Ukraine and Russia,
Zelensky's candidacy has received the most attention in Israel.
Israeli
media have become excited by the fact that Ukraine will now have a Jewish head of state and
one whose chief backers are particularly close to Tel Aviv. While Israel has often condemned
the rise in genuine antisemitism throughout much of Ukraine, Tel Aviv has nevertheless
increased its economic relations with Kiev since 2014. As such, it can be assured that under
Zelensky, relations between Tel Aviv and Kiev will continue to grow.
This incidentally comes at a time when Russia and Israel are becoming increasingly close
allies as was recently detailed in a Eurasia Future piece by Andrew
Korybko . Whilst Moscow and Kiev cannot agree on seemingly anything at this point in
history, they can agree on one thing: Israel is considered a friendly nation and a valued
partner.
Just because Vladimir Putin is a friend of Israel and something of a philosemitie, it does
not automatically mean that he will develop a warm relationship with a Ukrainian leader who
happens to be Jewish and who happens to be friendly with prominent Israeli businessmen.
However, because the Kremlin has long sought to reach some sort of conclusion to the stand off
with Ukraine (against the wishes of many Russian patriots and the two main opposition parties),
a fresh face in Kiev who has ties to Israelis may well be a small step towards bridging the gap
between his own government and Moscow.
None of this will likely play out before the cameras because in much of Ukraine it is
considered near treasonous to talk of anything resembling a detente with Moscow. Likewise, at a
time when Vladimir Putin's popularity is dipping due to an unpopular proposed pension reform
and internal economic/infrastructural issues, it would be viewed by at least some Russian
patriots as a sell out to effectively compromise with a Kiev regime that has attempted to
commit ethnic cleansing against the people of Donbass.
That being said, behind the scenes things will likely be very different, just as they were
after 2015 when Russia and Turkey rapidly mended ties out of the view of the public, before
later becoming openly close partners as they are today.
As a political novice in a country whose "experienced politicians" are self-evidently
nothing to learn by, Zelensky may well seek advice from Israeli experts, many of whom are
becoming increasingly close to Putin's Russia. This could represent the beginning of a slowly
turning tide for both Moscow and Kiev.
STEPHEN COHEN: But the point here is that Russia has been torn between East and the West forever. Its best policy, in its
own best interest, is to straddle East and West, not to be of the East or the West, but it's impossible in this world today. And
U.S.-led Western policy since the end of the Soviet Union, and particularly since Putin came to power in 2000, has persuaded the
Russian ruling elite that Russia can not count any longer, economically, politically, militarily, on being part of the West. It has
to go elsewhere. So all this talk about wanting to win Russia to an American position that's anti-Iranian and anti-Chinese is conceived
in disaster and will end in disaster. They should think of some other foreign policy.
...Haven't these people learned anything from the implosion of their pathetic Russiagate hysteria? The Russophobes won't be
happy until we're at war with a nuclear power and the nukes are about to land.
Here are things Trump has actually done, as opposed to red-limned fantasies drawn from the fever-dreams of Putin haters:
Unilaterally abandoned 1987 Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces treaty
Expelled 60 diplomats and closed 3 Russian diplomatic annexes
Bombed Syria, a Russian ally, with Russian troops in country
Sold arms to Ukraine, which is actively at war with Russia
Threatened Germany to cancel a new Russian pipeline through the Baltic (effort failed)
Even more sanctions against Russia and Russian nationals
Stationed missile defense systems on the Russian border in violation of arms treaties
Massive military exercises in Europe on the Russian border
Stationed troops in Poland
Negotiating with Poland to build a permanent US military base in Poland
"... The document "determines a list of those goods that it will be possible to export to Ukraine only on the basis of separate decisions from June 1." "This category includes fuel and energy products, including coal as well as the oil and petroleum products," he said. ..."
Russia is banning exports of crude oil, petroleum products and coal to Ukraine.
"A few days ago the Ukrainian Cabinet of Ministers took the latest unfriendly step with
respect to our country and expanded the list of Russian goods which cannot be imported to
Ukrainian territory. In these conditions we are forced to protect our interests and take
response measures," Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said at a meeting of the Russian
cabinet.
Medvedev said he had signed a resolution "banning the export of Russian crude oil and
petroleum products to Ukraine."
The document "determines a list of those goods that it will be possible to export to Ukraine
only on the basis of separate decisions from June 1." "This category includes fuel and energy
products, including coal as well as the oil and petroleum products," he said.
Not sure if extensive Lavrov interview earlier in April was reported on saker
..extract
"Question: Have you seen any grounds for optimism in the results of the first round of the
presidential election in Ukraine?
Sergey Lavrov: To be honest, I haven't seen any grounds for either optimism or pessimism.
What's the point of guesswork? This is a process that should take place and will be
completed. I do not doubt this or that the West will recognise this election.
OSCE observers released their preliminary report on the results of the first round of the
presidential election, which abounds in examples of flagrant violations: corruption, bribery,
pressure on voters and many other things. However, all this is described in a neutral tone. I
think if they wrote about us, they would present these facts emotionally. Now they are doing
it in an understated way and conclude that this did not affect the legitimacy of the
election. Neither was it affected by the flagrant violation of OSCE rules when our observers
were kicked out and over three million Ukrainians working and living in Russia were deprived
of the right to vote. These are facts of life in Ukraine.
I think that the results of the election and the way it was organised came as no surprise
to those who have been following domestic developments in Ukraine and its external ties. They
are already calling each other puppets It's probably interesting to watch from the side but I
don't think that Ukrainian citizens are happy about this kind of democracy.
Question: Are the prospects of Russia-Ukraine cooperation still vague?
Sergey Lavrov: We are open to dialogue if the aim is not chatting and looking for excuses
to do nothing but rather the practical implementation of the Minsk agreements. I have no
doubt that Petr Poroshenko does not want to do this and won't do this. When Viktor Medvedchuk
just suggested seriously discussing what autonomous rights may be granted to Donbass, he was
called a traitor. Poroshenko said this will never happen although he himself signed a
document on the special status of Donbass, which is described with sufficient detail in the
Minsk agreements.
These provisions on what rights Donbass should have were formulated by German Chancellor
Angela Merkel personally, among others, but her ward has got out of hand. This is a fact. On
the one hand, he doesn't listen to Germany or France because he has American "patrons". On
the other hand, they find it embarrassing to pressure him in public because by doing so they
will admit that what they call their "mediation" has failed.
However, there is no other document except for the Minsk agreements. They can certainly be
supplemented. For instance, it is possible to provide OSCE observers with UN armed guards, as
we suggest in response to the apprehensions of Ukrainians about their safety. But the core of
these agreements must remain unchanged. The main point is that all issues are settled
directly between Kiev, Donetsk and Lugansk .."
The Toltec sages used to say: "To really know something means that it must also entail the
knowledge of what course of action to take. And once you know what to do, you actually do
it". So they firmly stated that the only worthy knowledge is a functional one. Normally, the
trascendental matters were integrally consulted with the "Eagle" (i.e. the Entity out there
with limitless consciousness, which sounds pretty much like "God") through a link that in the
west is ignorantly dismissed as "intuition". This to remark that the big decisions must not
rely entirely on the rational part, because it is too prone to make mistakes.
We all know who the adversary is: it's not the AZE (AngloZionist Empire) per se, it's who
rule the Empire. And what they are doing in Ukraine is pretty clear:
* The endgame is to carve another Poland from the Russian population, as a means to weaken
the Russian State. The steps are obvious and unfortunately, maybe definitive: zioimposed
religious schism, forceful and exclusive use of "Ukrainian" from 2020 on, denial to belong to
other country different from "Ukraine" (a patchwork assembled through land thefts).
Fortunately Russia recovered Crimea, and the mining/industrial regions are disputed, but the
Khazarians control 2 critical assets: the other coastal oblasts and the chernozem soils.
* Stating that Russia cannot absorb Novorossiya is bullsh¡t. Germany, a smaller economy
with no sovereign government could absorb the RDA. If Russia doesn't decide, the situation
will decide by itself. Russia is already receiving a lot of displaced Russians, plus tons of
Russians in Ukraine who became the source of cheap labor for Russian companies. And what
about the costs of humanitarian assistance and military support to Russians under the Ukraine
dictatorship? Let's say it takes 30 years to revert the decay, so what? Russia has been
around longer and has had successful comebacks under way more destruction.
* The Donbass people already decided twice, by clear majority of the popular vote, to become
part of the Russian Federation. The right thing to do is simply accepting them. Not doing so
sends the signal that no matter what the other southwestern Oblasts do, they will not be
accepted either. Russia should openly support the Russians in the southeast of Ukraine who
want to secede and reintegrate with the Russian Federation.
For example, financing a
reunification party, granting contracts and jobs to the Russian allies there, logistically
supporting a secession movement, even militarily, because the Khazarians will not let go
without bloodshed.
"... Thus, there is an objective reason to prefer Zelensky over Poroshenko, which is that Poroshenko is a major thief while Zelensky isn't one yet, but it must be understood that this difference will begin to equalize the moment after Zelensky's inauguration. In fact, the elites in Kiev are currently all aquiver over their ingenious plan to sell off all of Ukraine's land to foreign investors (no doubt pocketing a hefty "fee"). ..."
"... The platforms of all the 30+ candidates were identical, but this makes no difference in a country that has surrendered its sovereignty. In terms of foreign relations and strategic considerations, the Ukraine is run from the US embassy in Kiev. ..."
"... n terms of its internal functioning, the main prerogative of everyone in power, the president included, is thievery. Their idea is to get their cut and flee the country before the whole thing blows up. ..."
"... Another option would be for Poroshenko to cheat his way past the second round (in an even more heavy-handed manner, since this time he is behind by over 30%), in which case Zelensky could theoretically contest the result in court and win. This would invalidate the entire election and leave Poroshenko in charge until the next one. Lather, rinse, repeat. Are you excited yet? ..."
"... None of this matters, because we don't know which of the two is the US State Department's pick. Depending on which one it is, and regardless of the results of any elections or lawsuits, a giant foot will come out of the sky and stomp on the head of the other one. ..."
The Saker: What is your take on the first round of Presidential elections in the
Ukraine?
Dmitry Orlov: The first round of the elections was an outright fraud. The object of the
exercise was to somehow allow president Poroshenko to make it into the second round. This was
done by falsifying as many votes as was necessary. In a significant number of precincts the
turnout was exactly 100% instead of the usual 60% or so and counted votes from people who had
moved, died or emigrated. All of these fake votes went to Poroshenko, allowing him to slither
through to the second round.
Now the fight is between Poroshenko and a comedian named Vladimir Zelensky. The only
difference between Poroshenko and Zelensky, or any of the other 30+ people who appeared on the
ballot, is that Poroshenko has already stolen his billions while his contestants have not had a
chance to do so yet, the only reason to run for president, or any elected office, in the
Ukraine, being to put oneself in a position to do some major thieving.
Thus, there is an objective reason to prefer Zelensky over Poroshenko, which is that
Poroshenko is a major thief while Zelensky isn't one yet, but it must be understood that this
difference will begin to equalize the moment after Zelensky's inauguration. In fact, the elites
in Kiev are currently all aquiver over their ingenious plan to sell off all of Ukraine's land
to foreign investors (no doubt pocketing a hefty "fee").
The platforms of all the 30+ candidates were identical, but this makes no difference in a
country that has surrendered its sovereignty. In terms of foreign relations and strategic
considerations, the Ukraine is run from the US embassy in Kiev. I
n terms of its internal
functioning, the main prerogative of everyone in power, the president included, is thievery.
Their idea is to get their cut and flee the country before the whole thing blows up.
It remains to be seen whether the second round of elections will also be an outright fraud
and what happens as a result. There are many alternatives, but none of them resemble any sort
of exercise in democracy. To be sure, what is meant by "democracy" in this case is simply the
ability to execute orders issued from Washington; inability to do so would make Ukraine an
"authoritarian regime" or a "dictatorship" and subject to "regime change." But short of that,
nothing matters.
The machinations of Ukraine's "democrats" are about as interesting to me as the sex lives of
sewer rats, but for the sake of completeness, let me flowchart it out for you. Poroshenko got
into second round by outright fraud, because the loss of this election would, within the
Ukrainian political food chain, instantly convert him from predator to prey. However, he was
none too subtle about it, there is ample proof of his cheating, and the contender he squeezed
out -- Yulia Timoshenko -- could theoretically contest the result in court and win. This would
invalidate the entire election and leave Poroshenko in charge until the next one. Lather,
rinse, repeat.
Another option would be for Poroshenko to cheat his way past the second round (in an even
more heavy-handed manner, since this time he is behind by over 30%), in which case Zelensky
could theoretically contest the result in court and win. This would invalidate the entire
election and leave Poroshenko in charge until the next one. Lather, rinse, repeat. Are you
excited yet?
None of this matters, because we don't know which of the two is the US State Department's
pick. Depending on which one it is, and regardless of the results of any elections or lawsuits,
a giant foot will come out of the sky and stomp on the head of the other one.
Of course, it
will all be made to look highly democratic for the sake of appearances. The leadership of the
EU will oblige with some golf claps while choking back vomit and the world will move on.
KIEV, April 17. /TASS/. The Ukrainian State Investigation Bureau launched a criminal case on
"the intentional surrender" of Crimea against Verkhovna Rada Speaker Andrei Paruby, Secretary
of the Ukrainian Council of National Security and Defense Alexander Turchinov, former Prime
Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk and others, the Ukrainian law union Aver Lex told TASS on
Wednesday.
READ ALSO
Court finds Yanukovich not guilty of 'losing Crimea' -- attorney
"The State Investigation Bureau opened a criminal case on the intentional surrender of
Crimea, violent upheaval, treason and the organization of mass murders on the 'maidan' in
2014 by Ukraine's top officials, in particular by Arseny Yatsenyuk, Alexander Turchinov,
Andrei Paruby, [former head of Ukraine's Security Service] Valentin Nalivaichenko, [Verkhovna
Rada member] Sergei Pashinsky, [Permanent Representative to the UN] Yuri Sergeyev, [Kiev
Mayor] Vitaly Klichko, [head of the Freedom nationalist party] Oleg Tyagnibok, [former Acting
Defense Minister] Igor Tenyukh, [Prosecutor General] Yuri Lutsenko, [Defense Minister] Stepan
Poltorak and others," Aver Lex said.
This is a pretty accurate description of "Myth about the USA" which is very common in xUSSR area too.
Notable quotes:
"... The farther you are from the US, the more mythical it becomes. Here in Ea Kly, most people have never been to Saigon, much less California, New York or Las Vegas, so their faith in the US can become childishly fanatical. This week, I met three brothers who still regret not jumping on a boat to escape, forty years ago. Every Vietnamese they know who ended up in the US had become fabulously rich, they insisted, and they cited a man who returned to build a road for his village as a typical example. ..."
"... A man in his 40's asked me if wife swapping is common in the US. As evidenced by every movie and music video, America is this insanely sexed up place where everybody is always jumping into everybody else's bed, not the land of widespread porn addiction, compulsive masturbators, bitter divorcees, smart phone exhibitionism, paid cuddlers and the never married growing old alone. ..."
"... A woman told me that she had a friend in the US who was making "only" $2,400 a month, "How can you live on so little?" "Many Americans make less than that," I answered. "I sure did most of my time there." ..."
"... She looked amused. She had no idea most Americans have to pay around 20% of their incomes on taxes, and that housing and transportation costs eat up half of their paychecks. ..."
"... As New York, Chicago, Miami, Houston, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles become covered with feces from homeless Americans, American colonies will be set up not just on Mars, but Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, in whatever order, for they're all as near as Hollywood, or your computer, assuming you'll still have one. ..."
America's most enduring export has been its image. Self-infatuated, it seduces everyone into
worshipping its self-portrait. In 1855, Walt Whitman wrote, "The United States themselves are
essentially the greatest poem," then set out to define this "greatest poem" to the rest of the
world, a monumental achievement. In 2005, Harold Pinter said, "I put to you that the United
States is without doubt the greatest show on the road. Brutal, indifferent, scornful and
ruthless it may be but it is also very clever. As a salesman it is out on its own and its most
saleable commodity is self-love. It's a winner."
The farther you are from the US, the more mythical it becomes. Here in Ea Kly, most people
have never been to Saigon, much less California, New York or Las Vegas, so their faith in the
US can become childishly fanatical. This week, I met three brothers who still regret not
jumping on a boat to escape, forty years ago. Every Vietnamese they know who ended up in the US
had become fabulously rich, they insisted, and they cited a man who returned to build a road
for his village as a typical example.
These aborted
boat people looked at me with scorn when I told them there are plenty of poor Americans,
with many in such despair they drug themselves to death, and life in the US is often a very
lonely experience, even for the native-born, with roots going back generations. I was
besmirching these naïfs' religion.
A man in his 40's asked me if wife swapping is common in the US. As evidenced by every movie
and music video, America is this insanely sexed up place where everybody is always jumping into
everybody else's bed, not the land of widespread porn addiction, compulsive masturbators,
bitter divorcees, smart phone exhibitionism, paid cuddlers and the never married growing old
alone.
A woman told me that she had a friend in the US who was making "only" $2,400 a month, "How
can you live on so little?" "Many Americans make less than that," I answered. "I sure did most of my time there."
She looked amused. She had no idea most Americans have to pay around 20% of their incomes on
taxes, and that housing and transportation costs eat up half of their paychecks.
Most people in Ea Kly have never even seen an American. In the next town, Krong Buk, there's
a white resident, the only one in a 30 mile radius. Most of his neighbors know him as simply
ông Tây, Mr. Westerner, though some do call by his first name, Peter.
A man said to Peter, "Merci, madame," the only Western phrase he knew.
Most have no idea that Peter is actually
Swiss
, and not American, but he's rich enough, by local standards, so he's more or less an
American.
White people are rich, live in fabulous countries, travel all over and can suddenly show up
even in Krong Buk to buy a nice piece of land by the lake, build an elegant house, with a guest
bungalow next to it. Whereas the locals only
fish
in this lake ,
the white man swims daily, for he knows how to enjoy life.
The apex of whiteness, though, is the United States of America, a country that didn't just
drop seven million tons of bombs on Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, as well as 20 million gallons
of herbicides, mostly Agent Orange, but sent twelve tall, clean cut and good intentioned white
men to the moon, a transcendental feat that's still unequaled after half a century, and it's a
safe bet that neither the Russians, Chinese nor anyone else will be able to accomplish this for
a while, maybe ever. Of course, Americans can return to the moon tomorrow if they want to, but
they're already looking way beyond it.
As New York, Chicago, Miami, Houston, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles become
covered with feces from homeless Americans, American colonies will be set up not just on Mars,
but Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, in whatever order, for they're all as
near as Hollywood, or your computer, assuming you'll still have one.
The fact that Glenn Greenwald proved to be a despicable pressitute cast a long shadow of
Snowden and Assange.
Notable quotes:
"... Not mentioned by any of the major news media is the fact that Bellingcat is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (sic), renowned for its interference in foreign elections, funding terrorists and overthrowing governments the US doesn't approve of. ..."
A quick comment about the two Russian alleged assassins, exposed, we are told by the
'investigative' Website, Bellingcat. Not mentioned by any of the major news media is the fact
that Bellingcat is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (sic), renowned for its
interference in foreign elections, funding terrorists and overthrowing governments the US
doesn't approve of.
Media Lens picked up on this awhile back in reference to another Western financed
outfit, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR), funded by the UK Foreign Office. I've
also expanded this by quoting from Media Lens' other article that deals with Western-funded
disinfo, ' Douma: Part 1
– Deception In Plain Sight':
Liberal corporate journalists and politicians have been impressed by the fact that SOHR
and White Helmets claims have been supported by ostensibly forensic analysis supplied by the
Bellingcat website, which publishes 'citizen journalist' investigations. As we noted
in a recent alert, Bellingcat is funded by the National
Endowment for Democracy (NED), which is funded by the US government and is 'a notorious
vehicle for US soft power'. – '
The Syrian Observatory – Funded By The Foreign Office ', Media Lens, June 4
2018
It's worth quoting more of the Media Lens article as it exposes the nature of Western
so-called lefties and their attachment to Western (funded) propaganda outfits:
In the New Statesman, Paul Mason
offered a typically nonsensical argument, linking to the anti-Assad website,
Bellingcat:
'Despite the availability of public sources showing it is likely that a regime Mi-8
helicopter dropped a gas container onto a specific building, there are well-meaning people
prepared to share the opinion that this was a "false flag", staged by jihadis, to pull the
West into the war. The fact that so many people are prepared to clutch at false flag theories
is, for Western democracies, a sign of how effective Vladimir Putin's global strategy has
been.'
Thus, echoing Freedland's reference to 'denialists and conspiracists', sceptics can only
be idiot victims of Putin's propaganda. US media analyst Adam Johnson of FAIR accurately
described Mason's piece as a 'mess', adding :
'I love this thing where nominal leftists run the propaganda ball for bombing a country 99
yards then stop at the one yard and insist they don't support scoring goals, that they in
fact oppose war.'
Surprisingly, the Bellingcat website, which publishes the findings of 'citizen journalist'
investigations, appears to be taken seriously by some very high-profile progressives.
In the Independent, Green Party leader Caroline Lucas also
mentioned the Syrian army 'Mi-8' helicopters. Why? Because she had read the same
Bellingcat blog as Mason, to which she linked:
'From the evidence we've seen so far it appears that the latest chemical attack was likely
by Mi-8 helicopters, probably from the forces of Syria's murderous President Assad.'
On Democracy Now!, journalist Glenn Greenwald said of
Douma:
'I think that it's -- the evidence is quite overwhelming that the perpetrators of this
chemical weapons attack, as well as previous ones, is the Assad government '
This was an astonishing comment. After receiving fierce challenges (not from us),
Greenwald partially retracted, tweeting :
'It's live TV. Something [sic – sometimes] you say things less than ideally. I think
the most likely perpetrator of this attack is Syrian Govt.'
We wrote to Greenwald asking what had persuaded him of Assad's 'likely' responsibility for
Douma. (Twitter, April 10, direct message)
The first piece of evidence he sent us (April 12) was the Bellingcat blog mentioning
Syrian government helicopters cited by Mason and Lucas. Greenwald also sent us a
report from Reuters, as well as a
piece from 2017, obviously prior to the alleged Douma event.
This was thin evidence indeed for the claim made. In our discussion with him, Greenwald
then completely retracted his claim (Twitter, April 12, direct message) that there was
evidence of Syrian government involvement in the alleged attack. [My emph. WB] – '
Douma: Part
1 – Deception In Plain Sight'
"... Presidential candidate Volodymyr Zelensky has responded to remarks by incumbent President Petro Poroshenko about the former's dependence on Ukrainian businessman Ihor Kolomoisky with a statement about ex-First Deputy Secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council (NSDC) Oleh Hladkovsky (formerly Oleh Svynarchuk), the suspect identified in corruption in the defense sector by investigative journalists. ..."
"... He said again that I am a puppet of Kolomoisky. I have only one question, I think he will be amazed too: So you are a puppet of Svynarchuk, or is Svynarchuk your puppet? ..."
Presidential candidate Volodymyr Zelensky has responded to remarks by incumbent President
Petro Poroshenko about the former's dependence on Ukrainian businessman Ihor Kolomoisky with a
statement about ex-First Deputy Secretary of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council
(NSDC) Oleh Hladkovsky (formerly Oleh Svynarchuk), the suspect identified in corruption in the
defense sector by investigative journalists.
"I've just watched the press conference of our guarantor. He said again that I am a puppet
of Kolomoisky. I have only one question, I think he will be amazed too: So you are a puppet of
Svynarchuk, or is Svynarchuk your puppet? Please, pass this question on to the guarantor of the
constitution (president)," Zelensky said at a briefing at his election headquarters on Sunday
evening.
As reported, Poroshenko on Sunday evening after publication of exit polls in the
presidential election said he was fated to run against "Kolomoisky's puppet" in the second
round of presidential elections scheduled for April 21.
"We will not give Kolomoisky any chance," Poroshenko said.
Possibly relevant this morning in the Wall Street Journal George P. Schultz, William J.
Perry, and Sam Nunn have an op-ed highlighting that a nuclear threat is not a thing of the
past.
The good news: they characterize the U. S.'s Russia policy as "dysfunctional" (which it
is) and call for renewed dialogue with Russia.
The bad news: they also call for strengthening NATO.
It seems to me that those two goals are contradictory. Expanding NATO beyond its original
membership is a key component of the dysfunction and a barrier to renewed dialogue with
Russia.
Sakers has a strong pro-Russian bias, and it shows. the process of distancing from Russia was
common for all post-Soviet republics and actually was caused by the mere fact of acquiring
independence. That it took such a self-destructive form in Ukraine is many ways the net result to
Washington geopolitical machinations (supported by Germany, Poland and Sweden).
The key problem is not EuroMaydan nationalist "revolution" per se, but that fact that
Ukrainian nationalists proved to be neoliberal compradors. Ukraine became the debt slave of the
West. Under neoliberal neocolonialism this is a very stable condition that guarantees that the
standard of living of people will not improve. The country will be sacked dry. So Ukraine is an
example of "Latin-Americanization" of post Soviet space -- that policy that Washington actively
implemented since 1991. After huge initial success with puppet Yeltsin regime, they failed to
weaken and dismember Russia further due to ascendance of Putin. But for all other republics it
was pretty successful neocolonial policy. They now have military bases in few of those republics
and most of them are debt slaves of IMF and World bank. In a way EuroMaydan signified the
finishing touches of conversion of this region into dent slaves.
Neoliberal Washington was turned into an oligarchy, an autocracy run by Davos billionaires.
Their "liberty" and democracy was an early example of Orwellian Doublethink. It was to destroy
everybody else's liberty so they could grab whatever they could, enslave the debtors and
create the polarized hostile to each other countries in post-Soviet state that are easily
controlled ("divide and conquer" strategy along with "Full Spectrum Dominance" mantra and
neoliberal "Washington Consensus" method of enslavement). Ukraine is the most glaring example of
this enslavement --the country with Central African level of poverty. It is very similar how
Roman oligarchy behaved -- the Roman oligarchy accused anyone of supporting debtor rights and
opposing its land grabs of "seeking kingship." Such men were murdered, century after century. It
seems that unless there's a Hammurabi-style "divine king" or some elected civic regulatory
authority arise, local neoliberal oligarchies arise and help to exploit their societies by
Washington as much as they can, while trying to prevent the country from defending itself. In few
countries like Hungary far right ascendance slowed down this process, but for how long is unlearn
as global finance is controlled from London and Washington and can crash any individual country
like a bug.
The Romans brutal "mission civilisatrice", can be viewed as to instll local oligarchy and and
kind of "financialized" economy in other countries. For performing this service, the imperial
power takes all the money that its colonies can generate. Washington is not different. That's why
the US meddles in foreign politics of other countries, as we have just seen in Ukraine, Libya and
Syria.
This overgrowth of debt under neoliberalism is highly destabilizing. Financial oligarchy have
broken free of tax liability and are enriching themselves not by helping the overall country
economy grow and raising living standards, but just the opposite: by getting the country into
bigger and bigger debt. This is the essence of Poroshenko regime -- corrupt comprador
oligarchy.
So there is no surprise that everybody hates Poroshenko and even huge "administrative
resource" and personal wealth did not help him to get more then 15% of votes (of which 5-10% are
probably fraudulent). That's typical for any neoliberal president who stand for re-election in a
debt slave country. But it is important to to note that this Washington marionette made the
situation much worse that the situation existed under Yanukovich (which was also corrupt as
hell).
The role of Israel in EuroMaydan is open to review and one comment below addresses that.
Some comments are more informed and are more interesting then the article, for example by
Beckow.
An interesting and funny detail is proliferation of "Children of lieutenant Schmitt" --
Holocaust survivors in Ukraine. People who were born in 1945, the first post-war generation, are
now 75, right ? And life expectantly for this generation is probably 65 for men and 75 for
women.
Notable quotes:
"... Poroshenko's absolutely vital goal was to make it into the 2nd round. Had he failed to make it he would have had to immediately jump into an aircraft and leave the country (because the most likely victor of the Presidential election would have been Iulia Tymoshenko and we can be darn sure that she would immediately jail him and most of his cronies). ..."
"... it is practically impossible to falsify an election and compensate for, say, a 15%-20% difference. But to cheat and change a result by less than 5% is much more doable. ..."
"... As for Zelenskii, he scores just like Poroshenko. ... ... ... ...Zelenskii is just a glorified puppet and everybody in the Ukraine knows that his puppet-master is Igor Kolomoiskii who is waiting out the final outcome of the Presidential election safely hidden in, you guessed it, Israel. ..."
"... Still, in theory, it is almost impossible for Poroshenko to win this one. Not only do all the other candidates hate Poroshenko way more than they would dislike Zelenskii, voters for Tymoshenko or Boiko are far more likely to vote for Zelenskii than for Poroshenko. ..."
"... Most votes went to Zelenski that is indication that Ukrainians now did loose their enthusiasm, and they are becoming more lethargic. ..."
"... Hillary Clinton's State Department funneled $5 billion to orchestrate a "revolution" to overthrow the elected President of Ukraine in 2014. (See my June 7, 2016 blog post for details.) Ukraine's President was ousted because he refused to support Ukraine joining the EU and NATO, and violence spread throughout Ukraine as CIA funded factions fought for power. ..."
"... With the exception of the Baltic states, that simply isn't true of any nation from the former Soviet Union. Otherwise, the Russians couldn't have set up the Eurasian Customs Union which covers ~90% of the former USSR. There are even many Georgians working in Russia, in spite of the short war that was started by US dummy and former Georgian then Ukrainian, now stateless, Mikheil Saakashvili. ..."
"... I say the best solution for Ukraine would be to leave the nazis among themselves by giving independence to Galicia. If it's the price to pay to reintegrate Donbass, for the economy, and for peace and stability, it's worth it. ..."
"... He has been in the office for 5 years and 85% of people want someone else. How much clearer could this be? This was a massive vote of no-confidence by Ukrainians. If Porky squeezes or cheats his way into staying as president, he is asking for trouble – it is not sustainable and Washington knows it. ..."
"... Galicia and Donbas also clearly cannot coexist in the same non-federated state, they are on opposite sides. ..."
"... That takes away 3-5% of the Ukrainian economy. If Russia piles on and restricts more trade, or limits remittances, there will inevitably by a recession in Ukraine. The circus is about to re-start, no wonder the clowns are renting stadiums. But at some point the distractions will cease to distract – and then the damn reality will hit even harder ..."
"... Most importantly, the masters are OK with it. Imperial gauleiter of Ukraine Volker has already voiced his support for Porky. Porky would likely be more obedient than anyone else: he can be blackmailed, as he has already earned gallows (or life in prison in countries that don't have death penalty). So, the masters have already chosen their favorite puppet. We'll see on April 21st how much influence they have. ..."
"... I am not saying that Zelensky (and his puppet master Kolomoisky) won't do, but from masters' point of view old clown is apparently preferable to the new one. ..."
"... the first step when things don't go well, is to rotate the clowns. We got Macron, the German doppelganger for Merkel, elites tried Renzi in Italy, so maybe Zelinsky could work. He is a complete tabula rasa, non-entity, that wouldn't know how to find the executive washroom. At a minimum, he would buy some time. Next they can still try Tymoshenko. This will not get resolved through the political process. ..."
"... If the masters allow new clown to win, Gas princess can be made the speaker of the Rada ..."
"... I am not sure what is left to be gained in Ukraine, it is all costs and very few benefits. That's what happens when the layered lying becomes so convoluted that the masters lose track of the objectives. ..."
"... They wanted Crimea (actually Russia out of Crimea bases, NATO in) – that failed. Everything else were distractions, false promises, and payoffs to locals. A normal master would accept the defeat, take his toys home, and wait for the next time. The post-modern Washingtonians instead pretend that the sweet talk was real , try for silly, secondary objectives (how about a few missiles on the Russian border? that would work out great), or refuse to accept the obvious. Making the whole fiasco more costly. ..."
"... As to a few missiles on Russian border, they already have that in Baltic vaudeville states, which are much closer to Moscow and especially Sankt Petersburg then Zhmerinka. ..."
"... Then again, I am looking at it rationally, whereas Washington politburo is getting even less rational that the Soviet one under Brezhnev. ..."
"... In April this year [2018] the U.S. supplied Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine and in May 2018 the U.S. Congress approved $250m of military funding, specifically including deliveries of lethal weaponry. ..."
"... President Donald Trump's special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker (a neocon, acolyte of senator John McCain, previously appointed by George Bush as U.S. ambassador to NATO) announced further U.S. arms supplies would follow, boasting of rising anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine. ..."
"... The zionists have been in cahoots with the neo-Nazi throughout the whole State Dept. criminal enterprise in Ukraine. The Kagans clan of holo-biz survivors and other pro-Nazi Jewish activists such as Gershman (NED) and Foxman (ADL) have been the moving force towards banderization of Ukraine ..."
By "Nazis" I primarily
mean their main figurehead – Petro Poroshenko (the rest of the "minor Nazis" did so
poorly that they don't matter anymore). Think of it: in spite of his immense wealth (he
outspent everybody else and even spent more that twice what the next big spender –
Tymoshenko – doled out for each vote), in spite of his immense "administrative resource"
(that is the Russian expression for the ability to use the power of the state for your personal
benefit), in spite of his "victory" with the Tomos , in spite of triggering the Kerch bridge
incident, in spite of breaking all the remaining treaties with Russia, in spite of his control
of the media and in spite of the (now admittedly lukewarm) support of the West, Poroshenko
suffered a crushing defeat. Look at the only two regions Petro Poroshenko (i.e. the Nazis)
actually won (in blue) and see how nicely they overlap with the rough historical contours of
the Galicia region.
But Poroshenko managed to even lose part of that to Iulia Tymoshenko! Bottom line: except for a
minority of rabid hardcore Nazis in Galicia, the rest of the Ukraine hates the Poroshenko
Ukronazi regime. We always knew that, but now we have the proof. ... ... ... Remember how
Poroshenko promised peace in weeks, a full respect for the Russian language and prosperity for
all? Well, all he delivered was chaos, insecurity, poverty, violence, a massive influx of
Ukronazis from Canada and the USA and, above all, a completely hysterical, rabid,
russophobia combined with abject groveling before the AngloZionist Empire. He also brought
an absolutely unbelievable level of corruption, having personally doubled his net worth many
times over. The legacy Ziomedia and the Ukropropaganda can say all they want, and they can try
to ban the Russian media and Internet in the Ukraine. But the truth is that everybody in the
Ukraine knows that the Ukraine went from being the richest Soviet Republic to the poorest
country in Europe. In fact, there are quite a few African countries which are doing much
better than the Ukraine. The truth is, and has been for several years now, that the Ukraine
is a failed state and that there is absolutely no even vaguely plausible scenario in the
foreseeable future in which the Ukraine could begin to recover. Hence this amazing result:
short of the Galician Nazis, everyone else absolutely hates the regime in power. So
Poroshenko's score is a humiliating defeat for all the Ukronazis. But not for Petro Poroshenko
himself!
Poroshenko's absolutely vital
goal was to make it into the 2nd round. Had he failed to make it he would have had to
immediately jump into an aircraft and leave the country (because the most likely victor of the
Presidential election would have been Iulia Tymoshenko and we can be darn sure that she would
immediately jail him and most of his cronies). In order to make it into the 2nd round,
Poroshenko did not have to defeat Zelenskii, but only defeat Tymoshenko and that Poroshenko
also succeeded in doing. Oh sure – it was thanks to a huge, massive fraud all over the
country (especially in the easternmost and westernmost regions) and he beat her only by 2.5%
but that is more than enough.
Besides, it is practically impossible to falsify an election and compensate for, say, a
15%-20% difference. But to cheat and change a result by less than 5% is much more doable.
In fact, if we assume that a 5% fraud is well within the means of an outgoing President and
billionaire, then we can also see that we will never know who really won . See here for an
almost finished (99.68%) count for the top four contenders: While Zelenskii is untouchable and
way ahead of everybody else, Poroshenko, Tymoshenko and Boiko are all within less than 5% of
each other. Interesting, no?
Keep in mind that Boiko is the closest thing to a pro-Russian candidate and that just a few
years ago he was virtually unknown. See for yourself: 2014 results vs 2018 poll Look at the
stats for 2014: Poroshenko had 55% of the vote, Tymoshenko 8% and Boiko just about 0%. Please
also notice that in the 2018 poll Tymoshenko is way ahead of Poroshenko while Boiko is not far
behind.
As for Zelenskii, he scores just like Poroshenko. ... ... ... ...Zelenskii is just a
glorified puppet and everybody in the Ukraine knows that his puppet-master is Igor Kolomoiskii
who is waiting out the final outcome of the Presidential election safely hidden in, you guessed
it, Israel. This is how the Tablet concludes:
The transformation wrought in Ukraine by the Maidan revolution has been an exhilarating
roller coaster that has not bypassed Ukrainian Jewry, which is now in the midst of an
exciting period of cultural revival paralleling that of the wider Ukrainian society, which is
still just beginning to rediscover its own past and imagine an independent future. Whether
this post-Soviet country will choose to elect an openly Jewish president, or a part-Jewish
president, or continue with its current philo-Semitic president, the future of Ukraine's Jews
would appear to be brighter than anyone might reasonably have imagined.
Where Poroshenko was the ultimate apparatchik Zelenskii is the ultimate outsider
and just as the people of the USA did not vote "for" Trump as much as they voted "against"
Hillary, so the people of the Ukraine did not really vote "for" Zelenskii, but "against"
Poroshenko. In fact, Zelenskii does not have anything resembling a political program (only
vague and nice sounding slogans) and he most certainly has no other political record other than
being a standup comedian and actors in several (pretty good) satirical series. Frankly, it
appears that Zelenskii was as stunned by his victory as Trump was by his.
Still, in theory, it is almost impossible for Poroshenko to win this one. Not only do
all the other candidates hate Poroshenko way more than they would dislike Zelenskii, voters for
Tymoshenko or Boiko are far more likely to vote for Zelenskii than for Poroshenko. This
creates an extremely dangerous situation: Poroshenko can only win by a massive fraud . Now
Tymoshenko did declare that the first round was stolen, but she decided not to appeal this
officially. Furthermore, it is now apparent that Tymoshenko was ditched by most of her US
supporters, something which she clearly did not expect and which came as a total shock to her,
hence her stunned reaction to the announced figures. She has always been, and still is, a
remarkably intelligent lady and a very calculating realist: she simply knows that an official
rejection of the outcome from her would make no difference. But you can be sure that behind the
scenes the interests Tymoshenko represents are now talking to the people of Kolomoiskii and
that Poroshenko is fully aware of that. ... ... ...
Poroshenko is now truly cornered: he absolutely must win, or he must run. In order to win,
his options are very limited
... ... ...
The infamous Minister of the Interior, Arsen Avakov, arguably currently the most powerful
and dangerous man in the Ukraine, has made an
most interesting statement about Zelenskii:
"A decent man from another world. From another plane. Ready to deal with problems, but
at the same time recognizing that in many issues he is not fully competent. In my
understanding, this means that he is ready to delegate authority. However, the question
arises: can we – Ukrainian society – offer the quality of the elite, which can
be entrusted with the implementation of such powers? After all, if he delegates authority
to scoundrels – as it happens in some series of "Servants of the people" – it
will be very bad for the country. Using expats is also not an option "( ) "He knows for
sure that from point A it is necessary to come to point B, and I am ready to agree with it.
But the problem is how to go this way. Often, if you go head-on, you will crash into a wall
or break. Therefore, it is necessary to choose the right path – and here should work
competent and honest specialists"
In plain English this simply means: Zelenskii has no personal power base, he will be a
puppet, so he better offer me a good deal (" delegate authority "), or I will turn
against him and, how knows, an unpredictable accident (" you will crash into a wall or
break ") can easily happen. Shocking? Welcome to "Ukrainian thug politics"! Besides, if
the Nazis decide to kill Zelenskii they can easily blame it on Russia. Either that, or on a
"lone, deranged, gunman" which they can find in the thousands amongst the various Nazi
death-squads.
Right now the Nazis are in a total panic, they are declaring that Zelenskii's victory is
"Moscow's triumph", they say that Zelenskii will sell out everything Ukrainian and that he is
a Putin agent. At the very least, they will now dig up as much dirt on Zelenskii as possible
(whether real or manufactured).
Zelenski means green man and has Polish indication. So he is one of the holocaust
survivors. (There are suspiciously too many of them these days.)
Timoshenko was virulently anti Russian but not so much anymore. All industrial plants in
Ukraine were built by Russians making products for Russia, I have doubt that they can make
anything that west needs. So Ukraine now is fully depended on agriculture. That is why
Ukraine is going down.
Most votes went to Zelenski that is indication that Ukrainians now did loose their
enthusiasm, and they are becoming more lethargic.
Galicia is multicultural area consisting mostly Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian,
Russian, and some other nationals. There is no unity there, and never will be
@Ilyana_Rozumova Maybe Galicia should be returned to Poland? From my blog:
May 1, 2017 – Must Ukraine Return Volhynia?
Hillary Clinton's State Department funneled $5 billion to orchestrate a "revolution"
to overthrow the elected President of Ukraine in 2014. (See my June 7, 2016 blog post for
details.) Ukraine's President was ousted because he refused to support Ukraine joining the
EU and NATO, and violence spread throughout Ukraine as CIA funded factions fought for
power.
Crimea was part of Russia for over a century until it was administratively attached to
Ukraine in 1954 by a Soviet premier to promote Soviet solidarity. Russians are the majority
people in Crimea and Russian is the common language, but they were not consulted. In 2014,
after years of Ukrainian political turmoil and an American coup in Kiev, Russia accepted a
request by the people of Crimea to rejoin Russia after 94% voted in favor. (See my Aug 8,
2016 blog post for details.) Russians and Crimeans were puzzled by intense American
opposition to this reannexation, and rightly concluded the Americans really wanted "NATO"
military bases in strategic Crimea.
For those concerned about European borders and justice, they should address a truly
outrageous annexation. In 1939, the Soviet Union invaded Poland and seized half of its land
while Soviet police massacred 22,000 influential Polish POWs and civilians. This area was
invaded by Germany two years later, which formed Ukrainian paramilitary units that murdered
over 100,000 Poles during the war.
Entire Polish villages disappeared as Ukrainians massacred everyone to include women and
children, who were buried in mass graves. After the war, the Polish regions of Volhynia and
Eastern Galicia were formally annexed by Soviet Ukraine after 1.5 million Poles were
forcibly deported. Over the next decade, another 1.5 million Poles were deported by Ukraine
to ethically cleanse these regions (noted in yellow below).
The West did nothing about this brutality because it occurred within the powerful Soviet
Union. However, that union broke up and Ukraine is weak and at odds with Russia. On July
22, 2016, the Parliament of Poland passed a resolution recognizing the massacres of ethnic
Poles in Volhynia and Galicia as genocide. Poland is now part of NATO and American troops
are based there. Thousands of Poles are still alive who were expelled from these regions.
Homes and land were seized from millions of Poles. Ukrainian war criminals remain at
large.
This raises several questions. If Poland demands a return of its territory or
compensation for Poles, will powerful NATO support its demand? Will sanctions be imposed
against Ukraine for this genocide and illegal seizure of Polish territory? Since Crimea was
attached to Ukraine without a democratic vote, and the citizens of Crimea voted to rejoin
Russia, should sanctions against Russia be removed?
Informed people know these issues will never be addressed because NATO does not exist to
protect member states, but is a proxy arm of America's neocon empire trying to conquer the
world. However, as Poland's military grows stronger and Ukraine struggles, this issue may
arise, and crafty Russia may support a return of Poland's, Slovakia's, and Romania's seized
territories!
With the exception of the Baltic states, that simply isn't true of any nation from
the former Soviet Union. Otherwise, the Russians couldn't have set up the Eurasian Customs
Union which covers ~90% of the former USSR. There are even many Georgians working in
Russia, in spite of the short war that was started by US dummy and former Georgian then
Ukrainian, now stateless, Mikheil Saakashvili.
I say the best solution for Ukraine would be to leave the nazis among themselves by
giving independence to Galicia. If it's the price to pay to reintegrate Donbass, for the
economy, and for peace and stability, it's worth it.
@Carlton Meyer Poles would be crazy to take back Galicia. Just fence the nazi lunatics
in with electrified barbed wire and leave them among themselves.
@One Tribe Well, yes, in a fashion. I'm from the old South (Roosevelt was in his second
term when I was born). Though I was educated at a fine old southern university and though I
have lived a significant part of my adult life in Europe, Asia and Africa, I still revel in
being called a redneck, a hick, a yokel, a cracker.
I embrace all of those terms because they only illustrate the ignorance of those who use
them in a derogatory manner. I also embrace being a part of the goyim. Those who use those
terms to wound only shows their fear, their own sense of inferiority to me, to us,
Christian southerners both white and black.
"Zionist praise for a Nazi" Poroshenko has Jewish ancestry, you dimwit. Go read the article
in Forward called 'Poroshenko's Secret Jewish Roots'. Ukraine has three Jewish men in a row
as prime minister. How interesting, given their rather low population percentage.
Nazi, Nazi, Nazi. Do these guys ever stop? It reminds me of the old Jews in Queens, NY,
every time they got into a disagreement with anyone, they yelled "Nazi". Even the regular
Jews got sick of it. The Ukrainians have a long history of nationalist thinkers, opposed to
Russian domination. Like the Finns, the Ukrainian patriots may have taken German support in
WW2, but that doesn't make the "Nazis". The National Socialists were a unique party to the
Germany of the 1930s, would you call Italian Fascists "Nazis"?
Ask yourself why, in general, one country/nation hates another? It's because of attempts
at invasion and domination. And historically, who is going to invade/dominate you? Those
geographically closest obviously. Sure, there are exceptions to this–the Mongol
Empire, the Arab Caliphate, and most strikingly, the Western invasion of well, everywhere
in the 16th-20th centuries.
But in most of the world most of the time for most of human existence, it's the guy next
door who is going to screw you and whom you in turn will screw.
One commenter suggested a comparison with Latin American attitudes towards the US. This
is partly true, but there are several differences. First, national identity is, on the
whole, relatively weak in New World. What does it really mean to be a Honduran? Secondly,
the main US security mechanism in the Western Hemisphere has been its navy which means
relatively less direct occupation and repression of places like Mexico. Russia, invaded
from East and West, has always sought security zones that inevitably mean occupation and
subjugation. Third, US hegemonism has only really gotten going over the last 125 years, so
it hasn't had as much time to antagonize its neighbors, and we had the good fortune of
ravaging most of the locals near at hand with the small pox, etc that we brought along with
us.
These factors combine to explain why the hatred quotient towards Russia by its neighbors
is higher than that towards the US.
"Zelenski means green man and has Polish indication. So he is one of the holocaust
survivors. (There are suspiciously too many of them these days.)"
– The endless numbers of "survivors" are especially amazing since it's claimed
that 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.'
Galicia is multicultural area consisting mostly Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian,
Russian, and some other nationals. There is no unity there, and never will be.
Then why do they seem to behave politically in ways that set them apart from all those
around them?
Really? I never thought of Slovaks as owning much of anything–not even Slovakia
historically. Hungarians, Austrians, Czechs all dominated Slovakia. Could you expand on
your notion of the majority of Galicia belonging to Slovakia?
When a sitting president anywhere in the world runs for re-election and gets 15%, the
decent thing is to step aside. It doesn't matter how many other candidates run, there could
be hundreds – what matters is that 85% of people voted against Porky as their
first choice .
He has been in the office for 5 years and 85% of people want someone else. How much
clearer could this be? This was a massive vote of no-confidence by Ukrainians. If Porky
squeezes or cheats his way into staying as president, he is asking for trouble – it
is not sustainable and Washington knows it.
Galicia and Donbas also clearly cannot coexist in the same non-federated state, they
are on opposite sides.
Economy: is it not going to get better. The bad news have been pushed after the
elections, and in 2020 two things will happen:
Kiev will have to start paying back at
least some of the Western loans Income from gas transit will be gone (and possibly the gas
itself).
That takes away 3-5% of the Ukrainian economy. If Russia piles on and restricts more
trade, or limits remittances, there will inevitably by a recession in Ukraine. The circus
is about to re-start, no wonder the clowns are renting stadiums. But at some point the
distractions will cease to distract – and then the damn reality will hit even
harder
@Vojkan The Poles deserve the ziocon-"renovated" & "liberated" Galicia festering
with the active Banderites. Look how the Poles have been treating the monuments to the
fallen Soviet soldiers. Let the Poles enjoy their passionate brotherly love with the ZUSA.
As Saker writes,
Fundamentally, Nazis and Zionists are twin brothers, even if deep down they hate (and
often admire!) each other.
If there is something positive about Maidan regime change, it is the revelation of the
ziocons active role in the revival of neo-Nazism in Ukraine. The revelation is a death blow
to the holo-biz profiteering schema.
Whether the Jewish State's provisions of Israel-made ammunition to the neo-Nazis or the
ADL & Simon Wiesenthal Center support for the neo-Nazi (see the zionists scandalous
behavior re the Conyers' Amendment), the zionists did indeed come out (again!) as the "twin
brothers" of the worsts among Nazis.
I disagree that Porky is dumb. He successfully fleeced the whole country, including
competing oligarchs, for 5 years. Dumb are the people who still support him. Ukrainians
voting for Porky are like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders. But some morons never
learn.
Porky might be fond of his drink. He showed up seriously inebriated several times
publicly, but he wouldn't be able to steal hundreds of millions consistently while being
drunk all the time. Saakashvili (admittedly, hardly a reliable source of info) said that
Porky ran the country into the ground being sober. Well, Porky never cared about the
country, all he is interested in is the trough. That's why he wants five more years of
stealing, and he is reluctant to yield his place at the trough to someone else.
Most importantly, the masters are OK with it. Imperial gauleiter of Ukraine Volker
has already voiced his support for Porky. Porky would likely be more obedient than anyone
else: he can be blackmailed, as he has already earned gallows (or life in prison in
countries that don't have death penalty). So, the masters have already chosen their
favorite puppet. We'll see on April 21st how much influence they have.
I am not saying that Zelensky (and his puppet master Kolomoisky) won't do, but from
masters' point of view old clown is apparently preferable to the new one.
@Oscar Peterson Transcarpathia is a long extension of Slovakia. It was taken from
Czechoslovakia after WWII and given to Soviet Ukraine. The people of this region never
thought of themselves as Ukrainian or Galician but as Rusyns or Ruthenians. Transcarpathia
was mainly given to Soviet Union because it is a good gateway for tanks into Eastern Europe
such as the case for Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968. This region also has a
large Hungarian population, since Hungary used to rule it in the Austro-Hungarian empire
times.
For some he is preferable, he is more reliable. Anytime a new clown is elevated, there
is some unpredictability. Bosses hate surprises.
On the other hand, the first step when things don't go well, is to rotate the
clowns. We got Macron, the German doppelganger for Merkel, elites tried Renzi in Italy, so
maybe Zelinsky could work. He is a complete tabula rasa, non-entity, that wouldn't know how
to find the executive washroom. At a minimum, he would buy some time. Next they can still
try Tymoshenko. This will not get resolved through the political process.
Next they can still try Tymoshenko. This will not get resolved through the
political process.
Why not? If the masters allow new clown to win, Gas princess can be made the speaker
of the Rada . Then an unfortunate accident can be easily arranged, and she becomes
next successor perfectly legally. The masters do these things pretty often: remember Ulof
Palme or Aldo Moro. Zelensky can be got rid of the same way, if the masters decide that
it's to their benefit.
@AnonFromTN That's a possible scenario. But in that part of the world, scenarios never
play out the way they are planned.
I am not sure what is left to be gained in Ukraine, it is all costs and very few
benefits. That's what happens when the layered lying becomes so convoluted that the masters
lose track of the objectives.
They wanted Crimea (actually Russia out of Crimea bases, NATO in) – that
failed. Everything else were distractions, false promises, and payoffs to locals. A normal
master would accept the defeat, take his toys home, and wait for the next time. The
post-modern Washingtonians instead pretend that the sweet talk was real , try for
silly, secondary objectives (how about a few missiles on the Russian border? that would
work out great), or refuse to accept the obvious. Making the whole fiasco more
costly.
The only reason they didn't abandon failed Ukrainian project I can see is that from
imperial standpoint the more irritants you create for Russia, the better. Current Ukraine
is an irritant. When its further disintegrates and becomes a huge Somalia on Russian
doorstep, it would become an even grater irritant. Of course, Poles would suffer, too,
but when did the masters take aborigines into account?
As to a few missiles on Russian border, they already have that in Baltic vaudeville
states, which are much closer to Moscow and especially Sankt Petersburg then
Zhmerinka.
Then again, I am looking at it rationally, whereas Washington politburo is getting
even less rational that the Soviet one under Brezhnev.
In April this year [2018] the U.S. supplied Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine
and in May 2018 the U.S. Congress approved $250m of military funding, specifically
including deliveries of lethal weaponry.
President Donald Trump's special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker (a neocon, acolyte
of senator John McCain, previously appointed by George Bush as U.S. ambassador to NATO)
announced further U.S. arms supplies would follow, boasting of rising anti-Russian
sentiment in Ukraine.
Kurt Volker, similar to the deceased McCain, is a loyal servant to ziocons and war
profiteers. Actually, Volker is a war profiteer himself.
The US's envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, who is connected to Raytheon, is in favor of
this arms shipment, and it's inevitable that it [arms shipment] will reach Azov
[Battalion]
Azov Battalion functions in a lot of ways like ISIS has in Syria and Iraq Azov camps
with an enormous trove of weapons .. we are talking about hundreds of pounds of C4
explosives, automatic weapons and grenade launchers.
Azov's own website demonstrates that US military trainers have visited Azov in the
field to train and exchange logistical information. They appeared in uniform with Azov
Battalion members who were wearing the wolf's angel patch, which is a Nazi SS symbol, a
runic neo-Nazi symbol on their arm. This is just a scandalous spectacle. Not only that,
contracts have been revealed showing that the Texas-based AirTronic arms company has
produced PSRL-1 grenade launchers that were actually authorized under this watch of the
State Department and delivered directly into the hands of the Azov Battalion. The US has
armed Azov.
Again, what the ADL has been squeaking about -- that there are too many Holo-biz
Deniers? -- The zionists have been in cahoots with the neo-Nazi throughout the whole
State Dept. criminal enterprise in Ukraine. The Kagans clan of holo-biz survivors and other
pro-Nazi Jewish activists such as Gershman (NED) and Foxman (ADL) have been the moving
force towards banderization of Ukraine (Babij Yar, ADL?).
None of them cares about the memory of WWII victims the zionists only care about
profits. As for Kurt Volker, he is with zionists in the search for mega-profit. He is a
regular opportunist devoid of dignity.
Volker served on the staff of Senator John McCain from 1997 to 1998. He was
appointed United States Permanent Representative to NATO in July 2008 by President George
W. Bush.
Volker went into the private sector in 2009, becoming an independent director at The
Wall Street Fund Inc. He was a member of the board of directors at Capital Guardian Funds
Trust Volker was also an independent director at Evercore Wealth Management Macro
Opportunity Fund
Volker served as a senior advisor at McLarty Associates, a global consulting firm. In
2011, he joined BGR Group, a Washington-based lobbying firm and investment bank
He has been a Senior Fellow at the Center for Transatlantic Relations, Johns Hopkins
University School of Advanced International Studies since September 2009, and a Senior
Advisor at the Atlantic Council since October 2009. [Atlantic Council has been a safe
harbor for the rabidly Russophobic Elliot Higgins and Dmitri Alperovich of Russia-gate
fame, https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/29/how-russia-gate-rationalizes-censorship/
)
Kurt Volker, a certified war profiteer and money manager using his position as a
government employee for making money on lobbying What can be wrong with his judgements?
Special Education comment for the fluoride-lobotomized vegetables, known internationally as
AMERICANS: Petro Poroshenko, described in this article as the figurehead of rhe "Nazis" is
a Jew. When the US sponsored the coup in the Ukraine, both the democratically elected
President and Prime Minister were replaced by Jews.
The alleged Neo-Nazis, "Right Sector" were unemployed punks led by Israeli mercenaries,
virtually unchallenged by effectively bribed, Ukrainian military commanders.
If Adolf Hitler were alive today and controlled the Ukraine, he would order that --
without exception -- every member of Right Sector be either euthanized or sterilized to
prevent the Right Sector Stupid Gene to infect the Aryan Race.
Anyone or any organization that refers to the Jewish president of the Ukraine and his
followers as "Nazis" are obviously Zionist propaganda agents misleading the mentally
feeble.
@AnonFromTN When we were kids we would climb into neighbours' gardens to steal
cherries. You climb up a tree, break a few branches, take the cherries. No guilt. Every kid
feels ' exceptional , it is something that comes naturally to all 12-year olds.
The weird thing about modern Washingtonians is that they never outgrew that infantile
stage. They still feel 'exceptional', taking other people's stuff is ok. Why wouldn't be ?
If one is exceptional, he is by definition better than others, and the others really have
no rights, except the ones given to them by the exceptional people.
When a thieving raid by the exceptional people is blocked – as in Crimea
– it leaves no good options. Should one admit that they were about to take the
'stuff' (the Sebastopol bases), lost out, and simply retreat? No, it is hard to stay
exceptional when losing. Image and perceptions are everything in Washington.
Should they escalate and try to storm Crimea to get what they want and deserve?
Again, no, because exceptional people can't risk hurt or injury, they are too precious,
they are after all 'exceptional'.
Should they send their decidedly unexceptional underlings to storm Crimea? Well, that
would be ideal, but the underlings are too stupid to even get into the garden, and climbing
a tree is way beyond their ability. One can train them, send them ladders – but
everyone knows that they will never do it.
That leaves the least bad option of sticking around to ' irritate ' Russia. There
is not much gain in it, it gets old very quickly, it is also costly and even dangerous. But
it preserves the image of 'exceptional' people, it can be spun around for different
perceptions, and it makes the local allies less antsy and less likely to run away with
their loot. Other than that it achieves nothing.
That's where we are: a bunch of unserious morons sitting in a car parked outside the
cherry orchard, scared to go in, scared to leave, hoping that nobody notices, and still
craving the sweet cherries without even being able to admit that's what they are there
for.
For its part, the United States insists on running Ukraine, appointing a special envoy
– Kurt Volker – to preserve its feeling of international importance after it was
pointedly left out of the Normandy Format; Meddlers R Us; we don't need no steenking
invitations.
A glance over trade statistics suggests this
was a wise choice for the Exceptional Nation – the year before the Glorious Maidan,
Revolution of Dignity, the USA did around $3 Billion worth of trade with Ukraine, selling it
$1.92 Billion worth of goods and services, and buying $1.03 Billion worth of goods and services
from it, posting an American trade surplus of $888 Million. Last year the USA did around $4
Billion worth of trade with Ukraine, selling it $2.46 Billion in goods and services, and buying
$1.35 Billion worth of goods and services from it, handsomely increasing the American trade
surplus to $1.13 Billion. Considering Ukraine is impoverished and living on handouts, while the
per-capita GDP has fallen by more than 6% despite the country having lost about 3 million
people (Ukraine's population today is almost exactly what it was in 1960), that's quite an
achievement.
"... Poroshenko's electoral appeal is rooted in the notion of 'better the devil you know' and his presidential campaign rests on his ability to convince voters that he is the lesser of all available evils." ..."
"... Let me put my cards on the table here – the current political class in Washington, irrespective of party affiliation and almost without exception, is so debauched and untethered that it enthusiastically supports the election of unabashed criminals where their election serves American foreign-policy goals. Is it too late to be astounded? Yes, it is. Ukraine is lightly chided for its rampant corruption, while Russia is held up to universal scorn because Putin. ..."
Poroshenko's electoral appeal is rooted in the notion of 'better the devil you know' and
his presidential campaign rests on his ability to convince voters that he is the lesser of all
available evils."
Poroshenko might have an uphill battle convincing his own voters of that reality, but he has
plainly gone down a treat in Washington.
Let me put my cards on the table here – the current political class in Washington,
irrespective of party affiliation and almost without exception, is so debauched and untethered
that it enthusiastically supports the election of unabashed criminals where their election
serves American foreign-policy goals. Is it too late to be astounded? Yes, it is. Ukraine is
lightly chided for its rampant corruption, while Russia is held up to universal scorn because
Putin.
Well, Poroshenko would certainly need to explain how he could win in the second round against
a candidate who polled twice the vote as he did in the first round. But Poroshenko owns or
controls a lot of media, and it's all about pushing a narrative. Ukrainians were satisfied,
the story will go, that Poroshenko learned his lesson from being rebuked in the first round;
he is sorry, and humbled, and will turn over a new leaf.
Meanwhile (still the story), many
Ukrainians are waking up to the shock of what they did, and are suffering buyers remorse, bla, bla. He only needs to squeak out a narrow win when it's down to just he and Zelinskiy,
and the west will immediately hoot that democracy has spoken, my, what an exciting ride, and
Zelinskiy will fade back into political obscurity.
Actually Peter Dickinson is just one of several supposed "experts" and "observers" at The
Atlantic Council of Ukraine's political scene who have expressed opinions that basically
exonerate Poroshenko as godfather of a group of hucksters smuggling Russian weapons and
military spare parts into Ukraine and then charging the Ukrainian government hefty prices for
them. John Herbst thinks it's great that the Banderites got weapons from Russia and the only
thing they did wrong was take a hefty personal cut from the sale; never mind that they broke
some other laws, let's say, laws that forbid Ukraine from purchasing anything from Russia
because Russia is under US / EU sanctions. Other opinions suggest that Poroshenko should just
distance himself from the people involved in the scandal because the most important thing is
to lead Ukraine as far away from Russia as possible – as if it is that easy for
Poroshenko to do, because if he did, his associates in the scandal will squeal on him.
It's hilarious reading those "opinions" and see how far those Atlantic Council people are
trying to excuse Poroshenko by blaming the journalists for bringing up the story or
insinuating that Tymoshenko or the Kremlin is trying to bring Poroshenko down.
I shall paste her article below as I have access beyond the pay-wall to a limited number
of articles published in that rag:
Some in Ukraine may feel that April Fool's Day 2019 started a few hours early, at 8pm
the previous evening to be precise, when the polls in the first round of the country's
presidential election closed and the exit polls showed an actor who plays a fictional
president beating the real president into second place by a margin of almost two to
one.
Official results give Volodymyr Zelensky (the actor) around 30 per cent of the vote,
compared with 16 per cent for president Petro Poroshenko. From a field of 39 – yes, 39
– presidential hopefuls, it will be these two heading into the run-off on 21
April.
Yulia Tymoshenko – the only woman anywhere near the top 10 and the most
recognisable face for many outside Ukraine as "la pasionaria" of the 2004 Orange Revolution,
had led when the campaign began last December, but was knocked into third place. Mercifully,
the 3 percentage point margin between her and Poroshenko is probably clear enough to pre-empt
any challenge or dispute.
The question now facing the more than half of Ukraine's 35 million electorate who voted
for neither Zelensky nor Poroshenko on Sunday is which of the two to choose in three weeks'
time – and for the rest whether to stick with their original choice.
It would be fair to say that opinions about Zelensky are sharply divided. On the one
hand are those who argue that anything has to be better than the glacial pace of change and
endemic corruption over which Poroshenko has presided.
They include many young people who have joined what might be described as the
pan-European anti-politics tendency that brought Italy's current government to power.
Zelensky and his team of largely young volunteers ran a welcoming and modern campaign that
took on a life of its own as – rather like Jeremy Corbyn's 2017 campaign in the UK
– supporters spread the word on social media.
At the same time, there are many – perhaps over-represented among highly educated
professional Ukrainians at home and abroad – who view Zelensky with trepidation and
suspicion as just another populist, capitalising on his fame in another sphere. Their fear
– tinged with condescension – is that he could endanger the relative stability
Poroshenko has brought after the tumult of the Euromaidan (a wave of demonstrations) five
years ago.
The size of Zelensky's first-round vote, however, and its geographical spread –
he managed to appeal to Russian-speakers in the eastern areas bordering the war zone as well
as those in central and southern Ukraine – have led even doubters to feel that this
election is now his to lose. Poroshenko, however, should not be written off too soon. It is
not just fear of the unknown that could make the run-off very close; there are other reasons
why Poroshenko could yet prevail.
One is that, although Zelensky comes across well when he appears on his own terms
– at the comedy shows he preferred to conventional political rallies – he
performed poorly in the few television interviews he gave, appearing out of his depth and
using language that suggested a rather unreconstructed view of women.
It had been expected that one or more formal television debates might test his mettle,
but the plan for first-round debates foundered when Poroshenko and Zelensky both declined to
take part, and it now appears there may be no second-round debate either. With the contest
now reduced to two, however, this is bound to concentrate minds.
Another is the question of Zelensky's funding. Some suspect that the hand (and money)
of the exiled businessman/oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky, is behind him. Zelensky denies that he
depends on anyone, and some close to the campaign say that associates of Kolomoisky are at
best on the outer fringe of the campaign. But the suspicion persists, and when Poroshenko
spoke of "populists" and "puppets" in his campaign speeches, the inference was clear.
Poroshenko's first-round campaign pitch – a responsible leader whose video
stresses the importance of the nation, the army and the Church – could have more
resonance now that it will be pitted directly against what could seem a leap into the unknown
with Zelensky. Then again, just looking at the way the two handled the provisional
first-round results on the night – Poroshenko looking exhausted and just a little
jaded, and Zelensky bouncing around, smiling, with a ready word for the media and
glad-handing his supporters, it was tempting to imagine a new Ukraine already eclipsing the
old.
But – to put it at its most basic – will Zelensky be "allowed" to win?
While there have been some reports of polling violations on Sunday, the first round appears
to have been an admirably clean and open election to the point where a complete outsider was
not only able to stake a claim to the country's top job, but to reach the run-off. And the
outside attempts to influence the poll (by Russia and the west), so apparent in previous
elections, were almost not in evidence.
With the presidency itself now at stake, however, and the confusion of a ballot paper
with 39 candidates safely in the past, could the old ways make a comeback? Might there be a
sudden upsurge of attempts to influence the campaign from the outside: new money, hacking,
dirty tricks,"Kompromat"? Is there a "deep state" that could stop Zelensky?
Leaving aside the imponderable, there are perhaps three factors to watch over the three
weeks. The first is whether any of the other first-round candidates who obtained more than a
handful of votes will endorse – or do any deal with either of the candidates. And if
they did – if Timoshenko, for instance, or Yuriy Boyko, the pro-Russia candidate,
backed Zelensky – would it have a positive or negative effect on his campaign? One key
broker could be the anti-corruption candidate, Anatoliy Hrytsenko, who came fifth.
The second is how far Zelensky can convince his critics that he could actually do the
job. Members of his team told me that he was consulting widely and taking the prospect very
seriously and he has attracted at least two past ministers to his team. The fluidity of
Ukraine's political parties also means that not having a developed party of his own might not
be a huge liability in parliament, as MPs might well flock to a winner. Parliamentary
elections later in the year could do the rest.
His manifesto is also more specific than his detractors say: it includes an end to
immunity from prosecution for MPs and government officials; "not a battle, but the defeat, of
corruption", referendums on important state issues, including possible membership of Nato,
talks with Russia to end the fighting in eastern Ukraine, tax breaks for entrepreneurs, a
drive to introduce technology in schools, higher pay for the military.
But the biggest question could be this: how far will voters distinguish between
Zelensky the real-life candidate and the fictional schoolmaster-turned-president whose
secretly taped anti-corruption rant propelled him to the top job?
By using the title of the series Servant of the People as his campaign slogan, and the
name of his embryonic political party, Zelensky could be accused of encouraging the
confusion. And the fictional president comes with an attitude and an almost naive agenda that
is the stuff of many a Ukrainian's dreams. He is principled, quizzical, supports the "little
man" and has the welfare of his people at heart. The less voters are able, or choose, to
distinguish the two, the better Zelensky's chances of leading the real Ukraine.
Note how, in the extract below, Dejevsky displays her lack of objectivity in the way she
regards the Ukraine from her oh-so-liberal point of view and, thereby, morally castigating
the dump after having right at the top her article mentioned that Tymoshenko was "the only
woman anywhere near the top 10":
although Zelensky comes across well when he appears on his own terms – at the
comedy shows he preferred to conventional political rallies – he performed poorly in
the few television interviews he gave, appearing out of his depth and using language that
suggested a rather unreconstructed view of women .
[my stress]
Yes, that will really turn the Yukies against him, I am sure, Ms
Dejevsky!
A filthy mysogynist!
How shocking!!!
One could not possibly cast one's vote for such a monster!
And what's with this criticism of both Zelensky and Poroshenko's refusal to have a
televised debate?
True, they hold such debates in US presidential elections as part of the "real democracy"
show in the "exceptional nation", but if other countries shy from similar performances, is
that so bad, so "undemocratic"?
And one comment, so far to the article, from a frequent troll at the Independent who likes
to add ПТН X̆ЛО (abbreviation for the Russian "Putin is a
prick) just to show how smart he is:
As usual no mention of any Russian monkey business so I guess Mary is still angling for
the dacha near Moscow.
I have a dacha near Moscow, wanker! Does that mean I am a tool of the Kremlin?
How about digging up the evidence for "Russian monkey business" and presenting it
yourself, arsehole, if you are so sure that such interference by Russia in Banderastan
politics exists?
"... Well, since 2002, people made a lot about the neo-cons being heavily influenced by Leo Strauss. I think this is only part of it. These people seem to me to be just as heavily influenced by George Berekeley: things don't really exist, there's no causation, therefore there's no consequences to one's own actions. ..."
"... "Corruption cannot lead to prosperity." Nor can it field a competent military with functional weapon systems. ..."
"... The comments at the end about how Turkey can maintain good relations with NATO and at the same time develop cooperation with Russia is clearly nonsense. NATO whole reason for existence now is as an anti-Russia military alliance. Pence is absolutely right about that ... you cannot be a member of NATO and develop close cooperation with Russia. ..."
Tweeting direct from NATO
meeting provides inside details not found in press articles, particularly the NATO
talking-point ending. IMO, the tweeter Mehta was right to highlight this exchange:
"Bennan: Do you know what the US policy in syria is?
"Çavuşoğlu: No, and this is the problem.
"He points to different statements from WH, Pentagon, CENTCOM, State. 'There is no clear
strategy. This is the problem.'"
Further on:
"Wow. Çavuşoğlu just compared Turkey to Ukraine, saying Ukraine let
itself be told it had to decide between West and Russia, and look what happened; Turkey
cannot be forced into same choice."
Pence threat is also stupid as there is no mechanism to expulse any member from NATO. NATO
members can only leave voluntarily.
Since when this stopped the USA?
The reason Turkey won't exit NATO are many. Among them:
1) Turkey's economy is in meltdown. It only didn't collapse yesterday because, luckily,
Turkey has only "burnt" one third of its Dollar reserves. For comparison, the usurper
government which toppled Dilma Rousseff burnt almost 50% of Brazil's then gigantic US$ 795
billion -- only to try to keep interest at a staggering 9.5% rate. Lucky for the Turkish
people, Erdogan survived the 2016 coup, but he was already trounced in the three main cities
and those reserves won't last forever. Time is in favor of the Americans in this case;
2) Contrary to, e.g. China and Russia, Turkey has a strong pro-USA political-popular base.
It really doesn't need to topple Erdogan through a violent coup (Obama made an unforced error
in 2016) in order to install a puppet government in Turkey;
3) The USA has the IMF. The IMF is the only institution which can do regime change and
nobody will question. Erdogan is, for now, refusing its "aid", but he's just one man. That
means that, even if Turkey remains with an Islamist (Ottomanist) or end up electing a neutral
government, the Americans will still be capable of exerting formidable pressure;
4)Turkey is, perhaps, the geostrategically most important individual country for NATO. If
the Americans still dream of defeating and balkanizing Russia through a hot war, then the
path will go through Turkey and the Bosphorus. It is not on rogue POTUS or Veep who will
change that.
"But current American elites have no concept of own actions having consequences."
Well, since 2002, people made a lot about the neo-cons being heavily influenced by Leo
Strauss. I think this is only part of it. These people seem to me to be just as heavily
influenced by George Berekeley: things don't really exist, there's no causation, therefore
there's no consequences to one's own actions.
Bolton
unwittingly utters truism but has no idea that it applies to him and the Outlaw US
Empire billions of times over: "Corruption cannot lead to prosperity." Nor can it field a
competent military with functional weapon systems.
Another OT note, this one about the technical development of generation 6 military
aircraft,
Hypersonic and hydrogen fueled and most likely piloted by droids or remotely given speed
and G-forces.
The US are threatening friend and foe alike, whereas those sanctions against their foe's are
real, sanctions against NATO members can be counterproductive, for instance Germany being
told to stop Nord Stream 2 and increase its contributions to NATO, 2% of Germany's GDP [4
trillion dollars] is an enormous amount of money to protect against a non existent enemy.
The
time will come when the US will be ignored, then, unless the US acts on those threats, its
own credibility will be called into question, then the only way is down.
Whenever anyone suggests that we should stop supplying bombs and military equipment to the
Saudis who are murdering Yemenis, moralists like Mike Pence, Pompeo, and the rest of the
religious right thunder, 'THEY WILL BUY ARMS FROM THE ROOOSHINS!'
So it is quite funny that they are willing to play hardball with the Turks.
The comments at the end about how Turkey can maintain good relations with NATO and at
the same time develop cooperation with Russia is clearly nonsense. NATO whole reason for
existence now is as an anti-Russia military alliance. Pence is absolutely right about
that ... you cannot be a member of NATO and develop close cooperation with Russia.
At
least in the eyes of NATO (i.e. the US) Russia is the enemy.
Under neoliberalism any regime change is necessary followed by an economic rape. That was the case with the USSR in 1991,
that was the case in Ukraine in 2014. Only the size and length of the looting varies depending of the strength of new government.
Both the size and the length is maximal if in power are marionette like Yeltsin or Yatsenyuk/Poroshenko.
Saying "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts" now should sound as "Beware of Americans who bring you color revolutions." They bring the
economic rape (aka "Disaster
capitalism") as the second phase. That's the nature of neocolonialism -- now you do not need to occupy the country.
It's enough to make it a debt slave using IMF and install compradors to endure the low of money and continuing impoverishment of the
population.
With such crooked and greedy friends as Biden and Kerry and their narcoaddicts sons you do not need enemies. But the main
danger are not individual sharks but Western financial institutions like IMF and World bank. Those convert countries into debt slaves
and that means permanently low standard (Central African in case of Ukraine, something like $2 a day) of living for generations
to come.
What is interesting is that unlike say German nationalists in 30th, the Ukrainian nationalists proved to be completly
useless in defending the Ukraine from looting. They actually serves as supplementary tool of the same looting.
The standard of living of Ukrainians dropped 2-3 times since 2014. How pensioners survive, on $50 a month pension I simply do not
understand. In any case Neoliberalism proved to be very effecting is keeping "developing" nations economic growth down and converting
them into debt slaves. The fact that Biden use loans as a tool of extortion (as in threat to cancel one billion loan) to close criminal
investigation of his sons company is just an icing on the cake. Poroshenko and his camarilla should be tried in the court of law for
his corruption and pandering to the Western sharks, who were happy to steal from Ukraine as much as then can.
To pay $166K a month for Biden's son cocaine is way too much to such impoverished country as Ukraine.
Notable quotes:
"... "I said, ' You're not getting the billion .' I'm going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: ' I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money, '" bragged Biden, recalling the conversation with Poroshenko. ..."
"... " Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time," Biden said at the Council on Foreign Relations event - while insisting that former president Obama was complicit in the threat. ..."
"... The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings that employed Biden's younger son, Hunter, as a board member. ..."
"... U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden's American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts -- usually more than $166,000 a month -- from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia. - The Hill ..."
"... And before he was fired, Shokin says he had made "specific plans" for the investigation - including "interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden." "I would like to emphasize the fact that presumption of innocence is a principle in Ukraine," added Shokin. Joe Biden "clearly had to know" about the probe before he insisted on Shokin's ouster . Via The Hill: ..."
"... The U.S. Embassy in Kiev that coordinated Biden's work in the country repeatedly and publicly discussed the general prosecutor's case against Burisma; ..."
"... President Obama named Biden the administration's point man on Ukraine in February 2014 ..."
"... Remember Victoria Nuland's famous phone recording of "**** the EU?" This was nothing more than another CIA destabilization campaign carried out of another Sovereign Country. With the goal of breaking the Bush Senior & Jim Baker agreement of not surrounding Russia with NATO countries after their Collapse. ..."
"... Let's face it. If Ukrainians loved it's Country, Joey, Hunter and the Choco-**** would have wound up like Mikhail Lesin during an all night party in an upscale grotto in Kiev by now! ..."
"... At last some questions for this dirt ball-burisma is tied in with one of the most if not the most corrupt oligarch, Koloimiski. Biden is up to his eyeballs in some dodgy deals in china as well-this guy and his son are walking corruption personified. ..."
"... Didn't Hillary teach Joe that a tax free foundation is better than using your son's LLC for laundering the bribes... This is basic stuff. ..."
"... Joe "the Conqueror" "Caesar Magnus" Biden. Joe of Ukraine, the best bud of $oro$. ..."
Originally from:
Forget 'Creepy'
- Biden Has A Major Ukraine Problem Joe Biden appears to have made a major tactical error last year when he bragged to an
audience of foreign policy experts how he threatened to hurl Ukraine into bankruptcy if their top prosecutor, General Viktor Shokin,
wasn't immediately fired, according to
The Hill 's John Solomon.
In his own words, with video cameras rolling,
Biden described
how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in
U.S. loan guarantees , sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didn't immediately fire Prosecutor General
Viktor Shokin. -
The Hill
"I said, ' You're not getting the billion .' I'm going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at
them and said: ' I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money, '" bragged Biden, recalling
the conversation with Poroshenko.
" Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time," Biden said at the Council
on Foreign Relations event - while insisting that former president Obama was complicit in the threat.
Interviews with a half-dozen senior Ukrainian officials confirm Biden's account, though they claim the pressure was applied
over several months in late 2015 and early 2016, not just six hours of one dramatic day . Whatever the case, Poroshenko and Ukraine's
parliament obliged by
ending Shokin's tenure as prosecutor. Shokin was facing steep criticism in Ukraine, and among some U.S. officials, for not
bringing enough corruption prosecutions when he was fired. -
The Hill
And why would Biden want the "son of a bitch" fired?
In what must be an amazing coincidence, the prosecutor was leading a wide-ranging corruption investigation into a natural gas
firm - which Biden's son, Hunter, sat on the board of directors.
The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm
Burisma Holdings
that employed Biden's younger son, Hunter, as a board member.
U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden's American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers
into one of its accounts -- usually more than $166,000 a month -- from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period
when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia. -
The Hill
The Hill 's Solomon reviewed the general prosecutor's file for the Burisma probe - which he reports shows Hunter Biden, his business
partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.
And before he was fired, Shokin says he had made "specific plans" for the investigation - including "interrogations and other
crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden." "I would like to emphasize the fact
that presumption of innocence is a principle in Ukraine," added Shokin. Joe Biden "clearly had to know" about the probe before he
insisted on Shokin's ouster . Via The Hill:
Although Biden made no mention of his son in his 2018 speech, U.S. and Ukrainian authorities both told me Biden and his office
clearly had to know about the general prosecutor's probe of Burisma and his son's role. They noted that:
Hunter Biden's appointment to the board was widely reported in American media;
The U.S. Embassy in Kiev that coordinated Biden's work in the country repeatedly and publicly discussed the general prosecutor's
case against Burisma;
Great Britain took very public action against Burisma while Joe Biden was working with that government on Ukraine issues;
Biden's office was quoted, on the record, acknowledging Hunter Biden's role in Burisma in a New York Times article about the
general prosecutor's Burisma case that appeared four months before Biden forced the firing of Shokin. The vice president's office
suggested in that article that Hunter Biden was a lawyer free to pursue his own private business deals.
President Obama named Biden the administration's point man on Ukraine in February 2014 , after a popular revolution ousted
Russia-friendly President Viktor Yanukovych and as Moscow
sent military forces into Ukraine's Crimea territory.
***
Key questions for 'ol Joe:
Was it appropriate for your son and his firm to cash in on Ukraine while you served as point man for Ukraine policy? What work
was performed for the money Hunter Biden's firm received? Did you know about the Burisma probe? And when it was publicly announced
that your son worked for Burisma, should you have recused yourself from leveraging a U.S. policy to pressure the prosecutor who
very publicly pursued Burisma?
Remember Victoria Nuland's famous phone recording of "**** the EU?" This was nothing more than another CIA destabilization
campaign carried out of another Sovereign Country. With the goal of breaking the Bush Senior & Jim Baker agreement of not surrounding
Russia with NATO countries after their Collapse.
Let's face it. If Ukrainians loved it's Country, Joey, Hunter and the Choco-**** would have wound up like Mikhail Lesin
during an all night party in an upscale grotto in Kiev by now!
Amazing that all 3 of them are still alive and that "Song Bird" McCain (#4) was allowed to die from his brain cancer instead
of joining them or being dismembered and put on display when he made these visit(s) (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbfsTcJCKDE ) along
with General Vallely (#5)!!!
Taras Bulba , 1 hour ago
At last some questions for this dirt ball-burisma is tied in with one of the most if not the most corrupt oligarch, Koloimiski.
Biden is up to his eyeballs in some dodgy deals in china as well-this guy and his son are walking corruption personified.
CarifonianSeven, 2 hours ago
Didn't Hillary teach Joe that a tax free foundation is better than using your son's LLC for laundering the bribes... This
is basic stuff.
Pernicious Gold Phallusy, 1 hour ago
Joe cheated his way through undergrad and law school. He would be unable to understand any of that.
whittler, 1 hour ago
What? You mean folks will finally care about little Hunter hiring Azov neo-Nazi fighters (oops! security I mean) to protect
his fracking site just north of the 'troubles' in the eastern Ukraine? I'm sure they were working for free and that no Biden money
was ever used to payoff (oops again! I mean pay the wages of) a bunch of Nazis (dang it again, I mean neo-Nazis, it sounds so
much warmer and fuzzier when you add 'neo').
Creepy Joe and all D's agree, 'Nazi' = bad, neo-Nazi = warm, fuzzy and good; heck, they even like to kill Russians Russians
Russians!!!
Cracker 16 , 1 hour ago
Joe "the Conqueror" "Caesar Magnus" Biden. Joe of Ukraine, the best bud of $oro$.
This article by late Robert Parry is from 2016 but is still relevant in context of the
current Ukrainian elections and the color revolution is Venezuela. The power of neoliberal
propaganda is simply tremendous. For foreign events it is able to distort the story to such an
extent that the most famous quote of CIA director William Casey "We'll know our disinformation
program is complete when everything the American public believes is false" looks like
constatation of already accomplished goal.
Exclusive: Several weeks before Ukraine's 2014 coup, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State
Nuland had already picked Arseniy Yatsenyuk to be the future leader, but now "Yats" is no
longer the guy, writes Robert Parry.
In reporting on the resignation of Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the major
U.S. newspapers either ignored or distorted Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland's
infamous intercepted
phone call before the 2014 coup in which she declared "Yats is the guy!"
Though Nuland's phone call introduced many Americans to the previously obscure Yatsenyuk,
its timing – a few weeks before the ouster of elected Ukrainian President Viktor
Yanukovych – was never helpful to Washington's desired narrative of the Ukrainian people
rising up on their own to oust a corrupt leader.
Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland, who pushed for the
Ukraine coup and helped pick the post-coup leaders.
Instead, the conversation between Nuland and U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt
sounded like two proconsuls picking which Ukrainian politicians would lead the new government.
Nuland also disparaged the less aggressive approach of the European Union with the pithy
put-down: "Fuck the E.U.!"
More importantly, the intercepted call, released onto YouTube in early February 2014,
represented powerful evidence that these senior U.S. officials were plotting – or at
least collaborating in – a coup d'etat against Ukraine's democratically elected
president. So, the U.S. government and the mainstream U.S. media have since consigned this
revealing discussion to the Great Memory Hole.
On Monday, in reporting on Yatsenyuk's Sunday speech in which he announced that he is
stepping down, The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal didn't mention the Nuland-Pyatt
conversation at all. The New York Times did mention the call but misled its readers regarding
its timing, making it appear as if the call followed rather than preceded the coup. That way
the call sounded like two American officials routinely appraising Ukraine's future leaders, not
plotting to oust one government and install another.
The Times
article by Andrew E. Kramer said: "Before Mr. Yatsenyuk's appointment as prime minister in
2014, a leaked recording of a telephone conversation between Victoria J. Nuland, a United
States assistant secretary of state, and the American ambassador in Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt,
seemed to underscore the West's support for his candidacy. 'Yats is the guy,' Ms. Nuland had
said."
Notice, however, that if you didn't know that the conversation occurred in late January or
early February 2014, you wouldn't know that it preceded the Feb. 22, 2014 coup. You might have
thought that it was just a supportive chat before Yatsenyuk got his new job.
You also wouldn't know that much of the Nuland-Pyatt conversation focused on how they
were going to "glue this thing" or "midwife this thing," comments sounding like prima facie
evidence that the U.S. government was engaged in "regime change" in Ukraine, on Russia's
border.
The 'No Coup' Conclusion
But Kramer's lack of specificity about the timing and substance of the call fits with a long
pattern of New York Times' bias in its coverage of the Ukraine crisis. On Jan. 4, 2015, nearly
a year after the U.S.-backed coup, the Times published an "investigation" article declaring
that there never had been a coup. It was just a case of President Yanukovych deciding to leave
and not coming back.
That article reached its conclusion, in part, by ignoring the evidence of a coup, including
the Nuland-Pyatt phone call. The story was co-written by Kramer and so it is interesting to
know that he was at least aware of the "Yats is the guy" reference although it was ignored in
last year's long-form article.
Instead, Kramer and his co-author Andrew Higgins took pains to mock anyone who actually
looked at the evidence and dared reach the disfavored conclusion about a coup. If you did, you
were some rube deluded by Russian propaganda.
"Russia has attributed Mr. Yanukovych's ouster to what it portrays as a violent,
'neo-fascist' coup supported and even choreographed by the West and dressed up as a popular
uprising," Higgins and Kramer
wrote . "Few outside the Russian propaganda bubble ever seriously entertained the Kremlin's
line. But almost a year after the fall of Mr. Yanukovych's government, questions remain about
how and why it collapsed so quickly and completely."
The Times' article concluded that Yanukovych "was not so much overthrown as cast adrift by
his own allies, and that Western officials were just as surprised by the meltdown as anyone
else. The allies' desertion, fueled in large part by fear, was accelerated by the seizing by
protesters of a large stock of weapons in the west of the country. But just as important, the
review of the final hours shows, was the panic in government ranks created by Mr. Yanukovych's
own efforts to make peace."
Yet, one might wonder what the Times thinks a coup looks like. Indeed, the Ukrainian coup
had many of the same earmarks as such classics as the CIA-engineered regime changes in Iran in
1953 and in Guatemala in 1954.
The way those coups played out is now historically well known. Secret U.S. government
operatives planted nasty propaganda about the targeted leader, stirred up political and
economic chaos, conspired with rival political leaders, spread rumors of worse violence to come
and then – as political institutions collapsed – watched as the scared but duly
elected leader made a hasty departure.
In Iran, the coup reinstalled the autocratic Shah who then ruled with a heavy hand for the
next quarter century; in Guatemala, the coup led to more than three decades of brutal military
regimes and the killing of some 200,000 Guatemalans.
Coups don't have to involve army tanks occupying the public squares, although that is an
alternative model which follows many of the same initial steps except that the military is
brought in at the end. The military coup was a common approach especially in Latin America in
the 1960s and 1970s.
' Color Revolutions'
But the preferred method in more recent years has been the "color revolution," which
operates behind the façade of a "peaceful" popular uprising and international pressure
on the targeted leader to show restraint until it's too late to stop the coup. Despite the
restraint, the leader is still accused of gross human rights violations, all the better to
justify his removal.
Later, the ousted leader may get an image makeover; instead of a cruel bully, he is
ridiculed for not showing sufficient resolve and letting his base of support melt away, as
happened with Mohammad Mossadegh in Iran and Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala.
But the reality of what happened in Ukraine was never hard to figure out. Nor did you have
to be inside "the Russian propaganda bubble" to recognize it. George Friedman, the founder of
the global intelligence firm Stratfor, called Yanukovych's overthrow "the most blatant coup
in history."
Which is what it appears if you consider the evidence. The first step in the process was to
create tensions around the issue of pulling Ukraine out of Russia's economic orbit and
capturing it in the European Union's gravity, a plan defined by influential American neocons in
2013.
On Sept. 26, 2013, National Endowment for Democracy President Carl Gershman, who has been a
major neocon paymaster for decades, took to the op-ed page of the neocon Washington Post and
called Ukraine "the biggest prize" and an important interim step toward toppling Russian
President Vladimir Putin.
At the time, Gershman, whose NED is funded by the U.S. Congress to the tune of about $100
million a year, was financing scores of projects inside Ukraine training activists, paying for
journalists and organizing business groups.
As for the even bigger prize -- Putin -- Gershman wrote: "Ukraine's choice to join Europe
will accelerate the demise of the ideology of Russian imperialism that Putin represents.
Russians, too, face a choice, and Putin may find himself on the losing end not just in the near
abroad but within Russia itself."
At that time, in early fall 2013, Ukraine's President Yanukovych was exploring the idea of
reaching out to Europe with an association agreement. But he got cold feet in November 2013
when economic experts in Kiev advised him that the Ukrainian economy would suffer a $160
billion hit if it separated from Russia, its eastern neighbor and major trading partner. There
was also the West's demand that Ukraine accept a harsh austerity plan from the International
Monetary Fund.
Yanukovych wanted more time for the E.U. negotiations, but his decision angered many western
Ukrainians who saw their future more attached to Europe than Russia. Tens of thousands of
protesters began camping out at Maidan Square in Kiev, with Yanukovych ordering the police to
show restraint.
Meanwhile, with Yanukovych shifting back toward Russia, which was offering a more generous
$15 billion loan and discounted natural gas, he soon became the target of American neocons and
the U.S. media, which portrayed Ukraine's political unrest as a black-and-white case of a
brutal and corrupt Yanukovych opposed by a saintly "pro-democracy" movement.
Cheering an Uprising
The Maidan uprising was urged on by American neocons, including Assistant Secretary of State
for European Affairs Nuland, who passed out cookies at the Maidan and reminded Ukrainian
business leaders that the United States had invested $5 billion in their "European
aspirations."
A screen shot of U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland
speaking to U.S. and Ukrainian business leaders on Dec. 13, 2013, at an event sponsored by
Chevron, with its logo to Nuland's left.
Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, also showed up, standing on stage with right-wing extremists
from the Svoboda Party and telling the crowd that the United States was with them in their
challenge to the Ukrainian government.
As the winter progressed, the protests grew more violent. Neo-Nazi and other extremist
elements from Lviv and other western Ukrainian cities began arriving in well-organized brigades
or "sotins" of 100 trained street fighters. Police were attacked with firebombs and other
weapons as the violent protesters began seizing government buildings and unfurling Nazi banners
and even a Confederate flag.
Though Yanukovych continued to order his police to show restraint, he was still depicted
in the major U.S. news media as a brutal thug who was callously murdering his own people. The
chaos reached a climax on Feb. 20 when mysterious snipers opened fire, killing both police and
protesters. As the police retreated, the militants advanced brandishing firearms and other
weapons. The confrontation led to significant loss of life, pushing the death toll to around 80
including more than a dozen police.
U.S. diplomats and the mainstream U.S. press immediately blamed Yanukovych for the sniper
attack, though the circumstances remain murky to this day and some investigations have
suggested that the lethal sniper fire came from buildings controlled by Right Sektor
extremists.
To tamp down the worsening violence, a shaken Yanukovych signed a European-brokered deal on
Feb. 21, in which he accepted reduced powers and an early election so he could be voted out of
office. He also agreed to requests from Vice President Joe Biden to pull back the police.
The precipitous police withdrawal opened the path for the neo-Nazis and other street
fighters to seize presidential offices and force Yanukovych and his officials to flee for their
lives. The new coup regime was immediately declared "legitimate" by the U.S. State Department
with Yanukovych sought on murder charges. Nuland's favorite, Yatsenyuk, became the new prime
minister.
Throughout the crisis, the mainstream U.S. press hammered home the theme of white-hatted
protesters versus a black-hatted president. The police were portrayed as brutal killers who
fired on unarmed supporters of "democracy." The good-guy/bad-guy narrative was all the American
people heard from the major media.
The New York Times went so far as to delete the slain policemen from the narrative and
simply report that the police had killed all those who died in the Maidan. A typical Times
report on March 5, 2014, summed up the storyline: "More than 80 protesters were shot to death
by the police as an uprising spiraled out of control in mid-February."
The mainstream U.S. media also sought to discredit anyone who observed the obvious fact that
an unconstitutional coup had just occurred. A new theme emerged that portrayed Yanukovych as
simply deciding to abandon his government because of the moral pressure from the noble and
peaceful Maidan protests.
Any reference to a "coup" was dismissed as "Russian propaganda." There was a parallel
determination in the U.S. media to discredit or ignore evidence that neo-Nazi militias had
played an important role in ousting Yanukovych and in the subsequent suppression of anti-coup
resistance in eastern and southern Ukraine. That opposition among ethnic-Russian Ukrainians
simply became "Russian aggression."
Nazi symbols on helmets worn by members of Ukraine's Azov battalion. (As filmed by a
Norwegian film crew and shown on German TV)
This refusal to notice what was actually a remarkable story – the willful unleashing
of Nazi storm troopers on a European population for the first time since World War II –
reached absurd levels as The New York Times and The Washington Post buried references to the
neo-Nazis at the end of stories, almost as afterthoughts.
The Washington Post went to the extreme of rationalizing Swastikas and other Nazi symbols by
quoting one militia commander as calling them "romantic" gestures by impressionable young men.
[See Consortiumnews.com's " Ukraine's
'Romantic' Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers ."]
But today – more than two years after what U.S. and Ukrainian officials like to
call "the Revolution of Dignity" – the U.S.-backed Ukrainian government is sinking into
dysfunction, reliant on handouts from the IMF and Western governments.
And, in a move perhaps now more symbolic than substantive, Prime Minister Yatsenyuk is
stepping down. Yats is no longer the guy.
Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for The
Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his latest book, America's Stolen
Narrative, either in print here or
as an e-book (from
Amazon and
barnesandnoble.com ).
Khalid Talaat , April 16, 2016 at 20:39
Is it too far fetched to think that all these color revolutions are a perfection of the
process to unleash another fake color revolution, only this time it is a Red, White and Blue
revolution here at home? Those that continue to booze and snooze while watching the tube will
not know the difference until it is too late.
The freedom and tranquility of our country depends on finding and implementing a
counterweight to the presstitutes and their propaganda. The alternative is too
destructive in its natural development.
Abe , April 15, 2016 at 18:49
Yats and Porko are the guys who broke Ukraine. By the end of December 2015, Ukraine's
gross domestic product had shrunk around 19 percent in comparison with 2013. Its decimated
industrial sector needs less fuel. Yatsie did a heck of a job.
The timing of "Yats" departure is ominous. Mid-April, six weeks from now would be the
first chance to renew the invasion of DPR Donesk/Lugansk."Yats" failed in 2014, and didn't
try in 2015. Who is "the new guy"? Will the new Prime Minister begin raving about renewing
the holy war to recover the lost oblasts? 2016 is really Ukraine's last chance. Ukraine
refuses to implement Minsk2, and they have been receiving lots of new weapons. I believe
President Putin put the Syrian operation on " standby" not only to avoid approaching the
border, provoking a Turkish intervention, but also so he can give undistracted attention to
DPR Donesk/Lugansk.
Bill Rood , April 12, 2016 at 11:50
I guess I must be inside the Russian propaganda bubble. It was obvious to me when I
looked at the YouTube videos of policemen burning after being hit with Molotov
cocktails.
We played the same game of encouraging government "restraint" in Syria, where we
demanded Assad free "political prisoners," but we now accuse him of deliberately encouraging
ISIS by freeing those people, so that he can point to ISIS and ask, "Do you want that?"
Targeted leaders are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Andrei , April 12, 2016 at 10:26
"the Ukrainian coup had many of the same earmarks as such classics as the
CIA-engineered regime changes in Iran in 1953 and in Guatemala in 1954", Romania 1989 Shots
were fired by snipers in order to stirr the crowds (sounds familiar?) and also by the army
after Ceasescu ran away, which resulted in civilians getting murdered. Could it possibly be
that it was said : "Iliescu (next elected president) is the guy!" ?
Joe L. , April 12, 2016 at 11:00
Check out the attempted coup against Hugo Chavez in Venezuela 2002, that is very
similar with protesters, snipers on rooftops, IMF immediately offering loans to the new coup
government, new government positions for the coup plotters, complacency with the media
– propaganda, funding by USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy etc. John
Pilger documents how the coup occurred in his documentary "War on Democracy" –
https://vimeo.com/16724719 .
archaos , April 12, 2016 at 09:45
It was noted in the minutes of Verkhovna Rada almost 2 years before Maidan 2 , that
Geoffrey Pyatt was fomenting and funding destabilisation of Ukraine.
All of Svoboda Nazis in parliament (and other fascisti) then booed the MP who stated
this.
Mark Thomason , April 12, 2016 at 06:57
Also, the Dutch voted "no" on the economic agreement the coup was meant to force through
instead of the Russian agreement accepted by the President it overthrew. Now both "Yats" and
the economic agreement are gone. All that is left is the war. Neocons are still happen.
They wanted the war. They really want to overthrow Putin, and Ukraine was just a tool in
that.
Realist , April 12, 2016 at 05:51
You're right, it doesn't have to be the military that carries out a coup by deploying
tanks on the National Mall. In 2000, it was the United States Supreme Court that exceeded
its constitutional authority and installed George W. Bush as president, though in reality he
had lost that election. I wonder when that move will rightfully be characterized as a coup by
the historians.
"On Sept. 26, 2013, National Endowment for Democracy President Carl Gershman, who has
been a major neocon paymaster for decades, took to the op-ed page of the neocon Washington
Post and called Ukraine "the biggest prize" and an important interim step toward toppling
Russian President Vladimir Putin."
It should be remembered that Victoria Nuland took up the post of Assistant Secretary of
State for European and Eurasian Affairs in Washington on September 18, 2013.
Coincidentally, two other women closely connected to events in Ukraine were also in
Washington during September 2013.
Friend of Nuland and boss of the IMF, which has its own HQ in Washington, Christine
Lagarde was swift to respond to a Ukraine request for IMF loans on February 27th 2014, just
five days after the removal of Yanukovych on February 22nd. Lagarde is pictured with
Baronness Catherine Ashton in Washington in a Facebook entry dated September 30th 2013.
Ashton was High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy at the
time.
Though visiting Kiev at the same time as Nuland in February 2014 Catherine Ashton never
appeared in public with her, which seems a little odd considering the women were on the same
mission, and talking to the same people. Nevertheless, despite appearing shy of being
photographed with each other the two women weren't quite so shy of being pictured with
leaders of the coup, including the right wing extremist, Oleh Tyahnybok.
Ashton refused to be drawn into commenting on Nuland's "Fuck the E.U.!" outburst,
describing Nuland as "a friend of mine." The two women certainly weren't strangers, they had
worked closely together before. September 2012 saw them involved in discussions with Iran
negotiator Saeed Jalili over the country's supposed nuclear arms ambitions.
The question is not so much whether the three women talked about Ukraine's future –
it would be ridiculous to think they did not – but how closely they worked together,
and exactly how closely they might have been involved in events leading up to the overthrow
of the legitimate government in Kiev. More on this here:
Another failed "regime change". Aren't these guys (Neoconservatives) great. They fail,
piss off/kill millions, yet seem to keep making money and retaining power. Time to WAKE UP
AMERICA.
Skip Edwards , April 11, 2016 at 20:06
Read "The Devil'Chessboard" by David Talbot to understand what has been occurring as a
result of America's Dark, Shadow government, an un-elected bunch of vicious psychopaths
controlling our destiny; unless stopped. Get a clue and realize that "Yats is our guy"
Victoria Nuland was Hillary Clinton's "gal." Hillary Clinton is Robert Kagen's "gal." Time to
flush all these rats out of the hold and get on with our lives.
Joe L. , April 11, 2016 at 18:40
Mr. Parry thank you for delving into the proven history of coups and the parallels with
Ukraine. It amazes me how anyone can outright deny this was a coup especially if they know
anything about US coups going back to WW2 (Iran 1953, Guatemala 1954, Chile 1973, attempt in
Venezuela 2002 etc. – and there are a whole slew more). I read before, as you have
rightly pointed out, that in 1953 the CIA led a propaganda campaign in Iran against Mossadegh
as well as financing opposition protesters and opposition government officials. Another
angle, as well, is looking historically back to what papers such as the New York Times were
reporting around the time of the coup in Iran – especially when we know that the
US/Britain overthrew the democratically elected Mossadegh for their own oil interests
(British Petroleum):
New York Times: "Mossadegh Plays with Fire" (August 15, 1953):
The world has so many trouble spots these days that one is apt to pass over the odd one
here and there to preserve a little peace of mind. It would be well, however, to keep an eye
on Iran, where matters are going from bad to worse, thanks to the machinations of Premier
Mossadegh.
Some of us used to ascribe our inability to persuade Dr. Mossadegh of the validity of our
ideas to the impossibility of making him understand or see things our way. We thought of him
as a sincere, well-meaning, patriotic Iranian, who had a different point of view and made
different deductions from the same set of facts. We now know that he is a power-hungry,
personally ambitious, ruthless demagogue who is trampling upon the liberties of his own
people. We have seen this onetime champion of liberty maintain martial law, curb freedom of
the press, radio, speech and assembly, resort to illegal arrests and torture, dismiss the
Senate, destroy the power of the Shah, take over control of the army, and now he is about to
destroy the Majlis, which is the lower house of Parliament.
His power would seem to be complete, but he has alienated the traditional ruling classes
-the aristocrats, landlords, financiers and tribal leaders. These elements are
anti-Communist. So is the Shah and so are the army leaders and the urban middle classes.
There is a traditional, historic fear, suspicion and dislike of Russia and the Russians. The
peasants, who make up the overwhelming mass of the population, are illiterate and
nonpolitical. Finally, there is still no evidence that the Tudeh (Communist) party is strong
enough or well enough organized, financed and led to take power.
All this simply means that there is no immediate danger of a Communist coup or Russian
intervention. On the other hand, Dr. Mossadegh is encouraging the Tudeh and is following
policies which will make the Communists more and more dangerous. He is a sorcerer's
apprentice, calling up forces he will not be able to control.
Iran is a weak, divided, poverty-stricken country which possesses an immense latent wealth
in oil and a crucial strategic position. This is very different from neighboring Turkey, a
strong, united, determined and advanced nation, which can afford to deal with the Russians
because she has nothing to fear -and therefore the West has nothing to fear. Thanks largely
to Dr. Mossadegh, there is much to fear in Iran.
My feeling is that the biggest sin that our society has is forgetting history. If we
remembered history I would think that it would be very difficult to pull off coups but most
media does not revisit history which proves US coups even against democracies. I actually
think that the coup that occurred in Ukraine was similar to the attempted coup in Venezuela
in 2002 with snipers on rooftops, immediate blame for the deaths on Hugo Chavez where media
manipulated the footage, immediate acceptance of the temporary coup government by the US
Government, immediately offering IMF loans for the new coup government, government positions
for many of the coup plotters, and let us not leave out the funding for the coup coming from
USAID and the National Endowment for Democracy. I also remember seeing the New York Times
immediately blaming Chavez and praising the coup but when the coup was overturned and US
fingerprints started to become revealed (with many of the coup plotters fleeing to the US)
then the New York Times wrote a limited retraction buried in their paper. Shameless.
SFOMARCO , April 11, 2016 at 15:16
How was NED able to finance "scores of projects inside Ukraine training activists,
paying for journalists and organizing business groups", not to mention to host such
dignitaries as Cookie Nuland, Loser McCain and assorted Bidens? Seems like a recipe for a
coup "hidden in plain sight".
Bob Van Noy , April 11, 2016 at 14:36
Ukraine, one would hope, represents the "Bridge Too Far" moment for the proponents of
regime change. Surely Americans must be catching on to what we do for selected nations in the
name of "giving them their freedoms". The Kagan Family, empowered by their newly endorsed
candidate for President, Hillary Clinton, will feel justified in carrying on a new cold war,
this time world wide. Of course they will not be doing the fighting, they, like Dick Cheney
are the self appointed intellects of geopolitical chess, much like The Georgetown Set of the
Kennedy era, they perceive themselves as the only ones smart enough to plan America's
future.
Helen Marshall , April 11, 2016 at 17:11
I wish. How many Americans know ANYTHNG about what has happened in Ukraine, about Crimea
and its history, and/or could even locate them on a map?
Pastor Agnostic , April 12, 2016 at 04:11
Nuland is merely the inhouse, PNAC female version of Sidney Blumenthal. Which raises the
scary question. Who would she pick to be SecState?
"... Writing off Brazil (and India and South Africa for that matter) just because the empire has succeeded in swinging an election or two in those places, or because the empire's lawfare scams seem to be working at the moment, is a mistake. ..."
"... These conspicuous successes of the Empire of Chaos , as Escobar calls America, do not significantly change the anti-imperialist attitudes of the populations in these countries. ..."
Writing off Brazil (and India and South Africa for that matter) just because the
empire has succeeded in swinging an election or two in those places, or because the empire's lawfare scams seem to be working at the moment, is a mistake.
These conspicuous
successes of the Empire of Chaos , as Escobar calls America, do not significantly
change the anti-imperialist attitudes of the populations in these countries.
There will be
backlash against the fascists in Brazil, and the right wing leaderships in governments
elsewhere in Latin America that the US has maneuvered into place as these leaders fail to
deliver material gains to their populations. And fail they will considering we are in
late-stage capitalism.
In the letter that was addressed to Avakov on March 15, French Ambassador Isabelle Dumont
wrote on behalf of her fellow ambassadors that "the G7 group is concerned by extreme political
movements in Ukraine, whose violent actions are worrying in themselves."
"They intimidate Ukrainian citizens, attempt to usurp the role of the National Police in
safeguarding elections, and damage the Ukrainian government's national and international
reputation," Dumont continued, in a thinly veiled reference to the National Corps and National
Militia, the far-right Azov group's political and vigilante wings, respectively.
... ... ...
'Nationalist Hate Groups'
The National Corps and National Militia were products of the Azov Battalion, a volunteer
military regiment formed in the early days of the conflict against Russia-backed separatists in
eastern Ukraine that began in 2014. The battalion has been accused by international human
rights groups of "war crimes" on the battlefield and has since been brought under the control
of the National Guard, which is overseen by Avakov.
Members of the National Corps and National Militia have been blamed for multiple violent
attacks on minorities in Ukraine, particularly Roma and LGBTI persons, in the past year.
The U.S. State Department described those far-right entities as "nationalist hate groups" in
its Ukraine country report on Human Rights for 2018 released on March 13.
.... ... ...
On March 9, the National Corps and National Militia clashed with police outside the
presidential administration in Kyiv and later in Cherkasy, where Poroshenko was campaigning.
At least 15 police officers were wounded.
"The violent incidents of March 9 were a reminder that, just a few weeks ahead of the
elections, one crucial challenge is to prevent an escalation of tensions," Dumont wrote in the
letter to Avakov. "We have noted with concern that the very same groups involved in the violent
incidents have registered as election observers and publicly threatened to use violence should
they consider that election fraud is occurring."
Indeed, Ukraine's Central Election Commission has approved the National Militia to monitor
the polling. Soon after that announcement, the group's spokesman warned that "if law enforcers
turn a blind eye to outright violations and don't want to document them," then they plan to
follow the lead of a group leader
who said they would "punch someone in the face in the name of justice...without
hesitation."
So the question is: what's better proven corruption or a new face in politics? And the
best answer is, "Politicians and diapers should be changed often and for the same reason" -
Mark Twain
Don't laugh. Professional comedians are actually very intelligent. They have excellent
memory -- I know, think very very quick on their feet, and deal with hecklers of all stripes
all the time. Such attributes are handy in time of crisis. But don't expect them to crack a
joke once they're elected. Look at Al Franken. Having been elected to and served in the
Senate, he's yet to say anything funny in public, lest people not take him seriously.
I wonder if Boyko will be arrested upon his return?
TASS has several additional short items related to this meeting and the upcoming
election in Ukraine of March 31. IMO, if Boyko wins, the Outlaw US Empire's Ukrainian project
will be concluded.
What he discussed with Medvedev and Gazprom's Miller is of extreme importance to Ukraine's
economy and are important election issues.
You are a little wrong when you call this system "colonial". Today it is neo-colonialism.
When the United States subordinates the country, they do not bear any responsibility for the
fate of this country, since the formally subordinate country remains independent and all its
actions are performed "voluntarily."
Ukraine is a good example. Now this country commits ritual suicide "completely
voluntarily."
They've thought of that. That's why they tell us "The US has no colonies". Because you
have to support them if you admit to owning them. That's why by 1960, every colonial nation
on earth was giving its own colonies independence. They were costing more than they were
worth.
What we do now is to groom some local fellow, like Guaido, to take over the government and
run it the way we would like him to. We pay generously for this favor, in the form of loans
and direct investments. The fortunate ones near the seat of power come out fabulously well.
But neither we nor the country's rulers take on any responsibility for the welfare of their
people.
One of the dictators we backed was the director of the Brazilian military, who seized
power back in 1964... a fellow named Castelo Branco. And he was asked once at a press
conference how the economy was doing.
He replied "The economy, it is doing marvelously! The people, on the other hand-- not so
good."
If you don't offer protection to your puppet eventually some other power might try the
same trick and overthrow him. But if you do provide protection that area becomes a
colony.
So what you describing can only work when there is only one major power on the planet. The US
enjoyed it for some time but it can't have it anymore, that's reality.
The system is predicted to work some time into the future, for the reason that it is based
on subterfuge and military force. And we have a military as large as that of the entire rest
of the planet put together. So to us it doesn't matter what you call it. They control the
media, so they can just not report a word you say about them.
What will undo it will be a collapse of the dollar-based economy. And that will be kind of
hard to achieve, as every rich person on earth keeps his wealth denominated in dollars. So
there is little pressure to kill it. That's why we always used to call it The Almighty
Dollar.
However there are limits. Our main weapon now being used to enforce behavior is financial
sanctions. So it's pretty much assured that at some point in the near future the sanctioned
nations (Russia, China, Iran, Venezuela...) will be getting together to set up an alternate
financial system. Probably based on the yuan.
That's the thing about offensive weapons systems. As a Mexican wit put it "Let them build
a twenty foot wall. We will build a 21 foot ladder."
@Felix
Keverich You're full of shit what the heck do you know about industry you useless little
fart ? are you an industrial engineer do you have any technical qualifications whatsoever or
do you just pull buzzwords like 'marketable skills' out your wazoo, as needed ?
The Ukraine certainly had all kinds of 'entrepreneurs' they're called OLIGARCHS who
very capably enriched themselves unfortunately 'entrepreneurs' are what normal people would
call parasites, flim-flam men and hucksters
As for Ukrainian workers lacking 'marketable skills' I guess that would be 'skills' like
TROLLING, your specialty and making retarded statements on discussion fora
Ukraine had more very qualified engineers per capita than any country in Europe a huge
amount of intellectual capacity, and a very good industrial base especially in high tech
areas like aerospace and propulsion their problem was that they chose to play games with the
rotten west, instead of friendship with Russia, with which their industry was
integrated
You're a complete wanker in the A. Karlin mold. Get lost you have nothing to
contribute
@Big
Bill They fought that it was Russia, that was holding them back, and by separating they
could quickly achieve Western European standard of living. The first guy to become
president of independent Ukraine promised people that they were going to "live like France"
.in 5 years (!). lol
So their plan was something like this:
Lately, they began to think that the Ukraine's path to prosperity goes through EU
membership, hence popular support for Euromaidan, and you know the results
You're full of shit what the heck do you know about industry you useless little fart
? are you an industrial engineer do you have any technical qualifications whatsoever or do
you just pull buzzwords like 'marketable skills' out your wazoo, as needed ?
Your industries are worth ZERO, if you're unable to sell your products, and the Ukraine
struggled to sell its manufactured goods after 1991. Its traditional customer – Russia
began to import Western goods.
You sound like Martyanov. lol It doesn't take any "special qualification" to figure out
that Soviet-era factories were churning out worthless crap – there is a reason why that
system fell apart, you know.
"dropped from up high" – gosh, the technical terminology scientists use makes their
reports difficult to follow. Naturally only Assad possessed the capability to drop something
from up high, so it must have been him.
I also note the report says some guy who was not from the hospital ran in shouting
"Chemical! Chemical!", whereupon others started grabbing people and washing them, and that
the alleged victims did not present as victims of a chemical attack.
But I daresay the press will conclude this is irrefutable proof that a chemical attack
occurred in Douma and that Assad – backed by the Russians – was responsible.
My, Ukraine's American Minister of Health – Yuliana Suprun – is doing an
outstanding job. Ukraine was the locus of the world's biggest rise in measles cases in 2018,
from about 5,000 cases the year before to 35,120 the year just past. Moreover, 24,042 new
cases were reported in the first 2 months of this year.
But it was the Moskali who caused the epidemic by trolling social network sites with false
information as regards the efficacy of vaccination against measles.
Russian-backed attempts to sabotage Ukraine's economic, political, and health
developments have left the country fighting a measles outbreak and continuing a bloody,
undeclared war. The situation is emblematic of increasing tension between the ideologies of
President Vladimir Putin and countries of the pro-democratic, neoliberal west.
The measles outbreak -- affecting other countries including Serbia, Georgia, Greece,
and Italy -- has hit Ukraine hardest, with the country's 23 000 cases accounting for
more than half the European regional total. Kremlin-supported social media accounts spreading
discredited theories about the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine, combined with shortages
and underfunding, have been blamed for the outbreak. Research published on Aug 23 concluded
Russian trolls promoted discord and, masquerading as legitimate users, created a false
impression that arguments for and against vaccination were equipoised. The result has been an
erosion of public consensus on the value of vaccine programmes. The precipitous fall in
vaccination level began after 2008, when 95% of eligible children in Ukraine received their
second (and final) recommended dose of the MMR vaccine. By 2016, the rate was 31%, among the
lowest in the world.
Although now rising again, the latest 85% measles vaccination rate recorded by WHO
remains below that needed for herd immunity. Records in 2016 show poor vaccination rates for
other diseases: only 19% of children received the third recommended dose of the
diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine and 56% received the third recommended dose of oral
polio vaccine.
Hepatitis B vaccination was low, with coverage with hepatitis B birth-dose and
third-dose vaccines at 37% and 26%, respectively. WHO estimates between 3% and 5% of the
Ukraine's 45 million population has been infected with hepatitis C.
Ukraine bears the second largest HIV epidemic in eastern Europe and central
Asia.
The above was printed in the much respected "The
Lancet" . Who wrote it, I know not -- but I can hazard a guess.
It begins with the outrageous statement that "Russia" is resposible for the epidemic,
specifically, the"ideology" of the Russian president is the cause of the epidemic.
No proof given: no data: sweet fuck all. Just an assertion that "Pyutin" is
responsible.
You know, it's a shame Ukrainians are so gullible, and believe Russia's lies without checking
any other sources of information – don't they know how to use The Microsoft and The
Google? Not to mention gullible Americans, who also fell for it.
Oh, and the Australians, who were so gobsmacked by Russia's campaign to discredit
vaccinations that being a 'vaccine skeptic' is now punishable by up to 10 years in
prison.
Mind you, the 'anti-vaxxers' in those instances are reportedly Australian nurses and
midwives – but I daresay they. too, were taken in by clever Russian trolls posing as
legitimate users on social media.
Some of you will probably be asking "At what point, for the love of Christ, are people
expected to take responsibility for their own decisions, instead of hiding behind the
feebleminded excuse that they were tricked by the Russians?" For my part, I am convinced that
Russia is going to take over the world, because Russian trolls are so much smarter than the
public in any country you care to name. With a few cat pictures and a sprinkling of Black
Lives Matter stories, many of them generated after the American election was actually over,
the Russians tricked the American electoral college into making Donald Trump president of the
United States instead of Mrs. Clinton, but in such a way that more of the public actually
voted for Clinton than for Trump. And the electoral college is supposed to be made up of
America's leaders. Brilliant, you must admit.
Watch out for the Kremlin campaign against photography – because having your picture
taken steals your soul – due to open in The Ukraine this summer. Then there will not
even be a photographic record of all the Ukrainians who died from measles, conniption fits,
brain fever and the fantods, as the Kremlin wipes them out with their own gullibility.
Survival of the fittest, baby.
Red Alert!! Nobody will ever know the true winner (cough * Petro Poroshenko * cough) of the
Ukrainian elections in 2019, because the Russians are already preparing fake exit-poll
results, so that not even those who vote will be able to remember who they voted for. The
situation probably cannot be stabilized until the reigning government reviews the results and
supplies the ballots it says were properly counted. Better just play it safe, and leave
Poroshenko as president forever.
Please note, the fake exit-poll meddling is in addition to other Russian meddling efforts
which will take place at polling stations during the vote. It is literally not possible to
hold an actual democratic election any more, Putin has ruined everything. Democracy is dead.
Voting as a means of selecting a national leader is over.
This is so confusing -- Porko has single digit support last I heard so it would be expected
that exit polls would show a similar result. But, if the exit polls are consistent with
Porko's opinion polls then it must be a sign of Russian meddling! Geez, I would have thought
it would be the other way around -- an inconsistently high exit poll result would only be
consistent with pro-Porko rating swindle. Shows how little I know about these matters.
Exit polling is tremendously important, and in previous colour revolutions the west always
tried to get control of exit polling; often it was invited to do so by the target country,
since it was felt by the government that the imprimatur of western observers would help
reassure nervous westerners that the elections were fair and democratic. They apparently did
not realize that all the west needs to tip over your victory is exit-poll results which are
dramatically different from the way the vote was counted -- for example, Yanukovych wins with
39% of the vote, but the exit polls, in which those just leaving the polling station are
asked who they voted for, say his opponent got way more votes than he did. Bingo -- the
election is a big fraud -- campers, set up your tents on the Maidan, we're not going anywhere
until this grievous wrong has been redressed. Thanks, Berezovsky, for the tents and the hot
soup. But nobody really knows what the actual exit-poll results were, so the western
observers can basically say anything they want, and the western press will immediately run
with it.
Porky knows this very well, so he is trying to de-legitimize the vote in advance, knowing
he doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning himself. If Zelenskiy wins, he'll be
a Russian pawn put in place by Putin, and consequently will have to make the most belligerent
statements against Russia and swear that he sleeps with a life-size blow-up doll of Bandera
so as not to be thought 'soft' on the Kremlin.
The west was not invited to do exit polls in Russia, but in each of Putin's wins as well
as that of Medvedev, the vote was consistent with pre-election polling in which decided
voters announced who they intended to vote for. Nonetheless, there is always a great boil of
noise afterward about ballot-stuffing and carousel voting, even by those who like to use the
term but don't know what it means.
I have often wondered which news agency Matt works for.
If he really did not know what carousel voting was, he should have contacted Yulia
Latynina, she 'd have told him; she's the carousel voting specialist: she can spot voters
being bused in at a 1,000 paces. During elections, she drives around Moscow sussing them out,
trailing them, writing reports on her findings in Novaya Gazeta or on the Ekho Moskvy site or
ranting on about them in her talk show there.
I wonder what she's doing now? I heard she had emigrated. She still sends in copy for the
aforementioned news media, though.
I remember with affection the old Anatoly Karlin, who could not endure western hypocrisy
without pointing it out with highly-enjoyable sarcasm. In the instance I'm thinking of, it
was the 'huge protest' (organizers claimed 120,000, police said around 29,000, objective
analysis put it at about 80,000) in Sakharov St. where the 'fiery' Alexey Navalny said he saw
'enough people to take the Kremlin'. The answering roar must have terribly tempted him to try
it, but he didn't. Anyway, there was a photo of that protest, taken from overhead – I
can't find it now – which showed a large block of city buses drawn up side-to-side;
transport for the protesters. They were 'bused in'. When you're going to attend a
western-backed demonstration, of course, you're just 'proceeding in an
environmentally-conscious manner to a responsible protest action'. When you are part of a
factory crew and the company lays on a bus to take everyone to the polls, you're 'bused in
for carousel voting', and the bus takes the entire contingent to multiple polling places
where they vote again and again. Or so Latynina says, although all she ever shows to back up
her assertions is a photo of a bus with people on it. But the western press is perfectly
happy to accept her word that they are seeing another sad example of the perversion of
democracy in Russia.
So there you have it, as usual – western exceptionalism goes global. When we do it
('we' being the children of the Limousine Liberals), we're just using a socially-responsible
method of getting to a place where we can make our voices heard and hold the authorities
accountable. When they do it, they're cheating democracy and imposing an oligarchical system
on us.
I have seen lots of photos of people on buses, and am perfectly happy to accept that they
all came from the same workplace – that makes perfect sense to me, and I see nothing
ominous in it. I have never seen any evidence that such people vote multiple times as a
group, and must therefore conclude that 'carousel voting' is a buzzword dreamed up by western
analysts in concert with sympathetic Russian liberal enablers.
"... Professor Cohen is indeed a patriot of the highest order. The American and "Globalists" elites, particularly the dysfunctional United Kingdom, are engaging in a war of nerves with Russia. This war, which could turn nuclear for reasons discussed in this important book, is of no benefit to any person or nation. ..."
"In a Time of Universal Deceit -- Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act" is a well known quotation (but probably not of George
Orwell). And in telling the truth about Russia and that the current "war of nerves" is not in the interests of either the American
People or national security, Professor Cohen in this book has in fact done a revolutionary act.
Like a denizen of Plato's cave, or being in the film the Matrix, most people have no idea what the truth is. And the questions
raised by Professor Cohen are a great service in the cause of the truth. As Professor Cohen writes in his introduction To His
Readers:
"My scholarly work -- my biography of Nikolai Bukharin and essays collected in Rethinking the Soviet Experience and Soviet
Fates and Lost Alternatives, for example -- has always been controversial because it has been what scholars term "revisionist"
-- reconsiderations, based on new research and perspectives, of prevailing interpretations of Soviet and post-Soviet Russian history.
But the "controversy" surrounding me since 2014, mostly in reaction to the contents of this book, has been different -- inspired
by usually vacuous, defamatory assaults on me as "Putin's No. 1 American Apologist," "Best Friend," and the like. I never respond
specifically to these slurs because they offer no truly substantive criticism of my arguments, only ad hominem attacks. Instead,
I argue, as readers will see in the first section, that I am a patriot of American national security, that the orthodox policies
my assailants promote are gravely endangering our security, and that therefore we -- I and others they assail -- are patriotic
heretics. Here too readers can judge."
Cohen, Stephen F.. War with Russia (Kindle Locations 131-139). Hot Books. Kindle Edition.
Professor Cohen is indeed a patriot of the highest order. The American and "Globalists" elites, particularly the dysfunctional
United Kingdom, are engaging in a war of nerves with Russia. This war, which could turn nuclear for reasons discussed in this
important book, is of no benefit to any person or nation.
Indeed, with the hysteria on "climate change" isn't it odd that other than Professor Cohen's voice, there are no prominent
figures warning of the devastation that nuclear war would bring?
If you are a viewer of one of the legacy media outlets, be it Cable Television networks, with the exception of Tucker Carlson
on Fox who has Professor Cohen as a frequent guest, or newspapers such as The New York Times, you have been exposed to falsehoods
by remarkably ignorant individuals; ignorant of history, of the true nature of Russia (which defeated the Nazis in Europe at a
loss of millions of lives) and most important, of actual military experience. America is neither an invincible or exceptional
nation. And for those familiar with terminology of ancient history, it appears the so-called elites are suffering from hubris.
I cannot recommend Professor Cohen's work with sufficient superlatives; his arguments are erudite, clearly stated, supported
by the facts and ultimately irrefutable. If enough people find Professor Cohen's work and raise their voices to their oblivious
politicians and profiteers from war to stop further confrontation between Russia and America, then this book has served a noble
purpose.
If nothing else, educate yourself by reading this work to discover what the *truth* is. And the truth is something sacred.
America and the world owe Professor Cohen a great debt. "Blessed are the peace makers..."
This is a compelling book that documents and examines the senseless and dangerous demonizing of Russia and Putin. Unfortunately,
the elites in Washington and mass media are not likely to read this book. Their minds are closed. I read this book because I was
hoping for an explanation about the cause of the new cold war with Russia. Although the root cause of the new cold war is beyond
the scope of this book, the book documents baseless accusations that grew in frequency and intensity until all opposition was
silenced. The book documents the dangerous triumph of group think.
"On my planet, the evidence linking Putin to the assassination of Litvinecko, Nemtsov, and Politkovskaya and the attempt
on the Skripals is strong and consistent with spending his formative years in the KGB. The naive view from Cohen's planet is
presented on p 6 and 170."
Ukrainian history. That's evident to any attentive reader. I just want to state that Ukrainian EuroMaydan was a color revolution
which exploited the anger of population against the corrupt neoliberal government of Yanukovich (with Biden as the best friend,
and Paul Manafort as the election advisor) to install even more neoliberal and more corrupt government of Poroshenko and cut Ukraine
from Russia. The process that was probably inevitable in the long run (so called Baltic path), but that was forcefully accelerated.
Everything was taken from the Gene Sharp textbook. And Ukrainians suffered greatly as a result, with the standard of living dropping
to around $2 a day level -- essentially Central Africa level.
The fact is that the EU acted as a predator trying to get into Ukraine markets and displace Russia. While the USA neocons (Nuland
and Co) staged the coup using Ukrainian nationalists as a ram, ignoring the fact that Yanukovich would be voted out in six months
anyway (his popularity was in single digits, like popularity of Poroshenko those days ;-). The fact that Obama administration
desperately wanted to weaken Russia at the expense of Ukrainians eludes you. I would blame Nuland for the loss of Crimea and the
civil war in Donbass.
Poor Ukrainians again became the victim of geopolitical games by big powers. No that they are completely blameless, but still...
It looks like you inhabit a very cold populated exclusively with neocons planet called "Russiagate." So Professor Cohen really
lives on another planet. And probably you should drink less American exceptionalism Kool-Aid.
That's probably wrong. Distancing from Russia was the main theme for all post Soviet States.
And the fact that Ukraine had chosen Baltin model -- becoming the sattelite of EU is not
surprising, taking into account connections of Western Ukraine and Germany which goes to the time
when this territory was a part of Austro-Hungarian Empire.
The the fact that this distancing took such a toxic and self-destructing form and incldes the
loss of territory and population, can be attributed to the USA. Here I would agree with the
author.
Notable quotes:
"... The term, roughly translated as Revolution of Dignity, was cooked up at the Jamestown Foundation in Washington, well in advance of Victoria Nuland's assumption of the throne as de facto "Queen of the Ukraine," lording over her subjects, playing the role of "donut dollie." ..."
"... The roots of the conflict in the Ukraine with thousands dead and the threat of, minimally, a wider regional conflict, are attributable to extremist elements in the United States -- those faces and voices seen and heard promoting the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, the supporters of ISIS/Al Qaeda in Syria -- and the cheerleaders of the continued genocide against the Palestinian people." ..."
"A Pew poll from April 2014 revealed that 91 percent of Crimean respondents
believed the referendum was free and fair, 93 percent had confidence in Putin, and
85 percent believed Kiev should recognize the results.
Another poll in June 2014, this one from Gallup , showed 94 percent of
ethnic Russians in Crimea thought the referendum reflected the views of the people and 68
percent of ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea agreed . The poll found that 74 percent
believed that joining Russia would make life better.
A GfK poll from February 2015, sponsored by a pro-Ukrainian group in Canada,
revealed 93 percent of Crimeans endorsed the referendum."
"Enough documents have been released -- citing coup-backed snipers killing dozens of
protesters, US embassy officials planning false flag attacks, extremists downing a passenger
airliner and NATO peddling falsified intelligence -- to make it very clear that the "coup" is
more of an invasion than anything else.
The term, roughly translated as Revolution of Dignity, was cooked up at the Jamestown
Foundation in Washington, well in advance of Victoria Nuland's assumption of the throne as de
facto "Queen of the Ukraine," lording over her subjects, playing the role of "donut
dollie."
The roots of the conflict in the Ukraine with thousands dead and the threat of,
minimally, a wider regional conflict, are attributable to extremist elements in the United
States -- those faces and voices seen and heard promoting the invasion of Afghanistan and
Iraq, the supporters of ISIS/Al Qaeda in Syria -- and the cheerleaders of the continued
genocide against the Palestinian people."
"In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace, in Principle VI,
specifically Principle VI(a), submitted to the United Nations General Assembly, as:
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation
of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the
acts mentioned under (i)."
@annamaria
Bravo, indeed, Annamaria. Beautiful, perfect, resounding, harsh, unforgiving words for a pair
of worthless human vermin masquerading as civilised, intelligent professionals with a moral
compass.
4 февраля
гостьей
программы
"Гордон" была
народный
депутат
Украины V - VII
созывов Елена
Бондаренко.
Сильные мира
сего умеют
хранить свои
тайны, и тем
интереснее
задавать им
прямые и
неудобные
вопросы, чтобы
отделить
правду от лжи и
узнать истину.
Они будут
пытаться
уклоняться от
ответов, но
Дмитрий Гордон
постарается
докопаться до
самой сути.
Эти люди
расскажут о том,
о чем принято
молчать – что
волнует
общество и
Дмитрия
Гордона в
частности.
"... Senate Resolution on December 19, 2019 which calls for "a prompt multinational freedom of navigation operation in the Black Sea and urging the cancellation of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline ..."
"... Calling for a prompt multinational freedom of navigation operation in the Black Sea and urging the cancellation of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline. ..."
Senator Ron Johnson (R- Wis) and Richard Durban (D-Ill) and 39 of their colleagues introduced a Senate Resolution on December
19, 2019 which calls for "a prompt multinational freedom of navigation operation in the Black Sea and urging the cancellation of
the Nord Stream 2 pipeline" as shown
here :
Here is a list of co-sponsors of the resolution:
Sen. James Inhofe (R-Ok.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee; Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), ranking member of the
Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Europe and Regional Security Cooperation; and Sens. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), Ben Cardin
(D-Md.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Cory Gardner (R-Colo.), Christopher Coons (D-Del.), James Risch (R-Idaho),
Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-Miss.), Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Ben Sasse (R-Neb.),
Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.), John Boozman (R-Ark.), John Hoeven (R-N.D.), Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.),
Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), Doug Jones (D-Ala.), Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), Mike Rounds (R-S.D.), Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.), Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.),
Tim Kaine (D-Va.), Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), Gary Peters (D-Mich.), Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), Roger Wicker
(R-Miss.), John Cornyn (R-Texas), John Thune (R-S.D.), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Mike Crapo (R-Idaho), Rob Portman (R-Ohio), Mitch
McConnell (R-Ky.), and Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.).
Here is the resolution (currently unnumbered) in its entirety:
Calling for a prompt multinational freedom of navigation operation in the Black Sea and urging the cancellation of the
Nord Stream 2 pipeline.
... ... ...
Whereas the United States has important national interests in the Black Sea region, including the security
of three NATO littoral states, the promotion of European energy market diversification by ensuring unfettered European access
to energy exporters in the Caucuses and central Asia, and combatting use of the region by smugglers as a conduit for trafficking
in persons, narcotics, and arms;
Whereas the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is a proposed underwater natural gas pipeline project that would provide
an additional 55,000,000,000 cubic meters of pipeline capacity from the Russian Federation to the Federal Republic of Germany
through the Baltic Sea;
Whereas the Russian Federation's state-owned oil and gas company, Gazprom, is the sole shareholder of the Nord
Stream 2 project;
Whereas, in 2017, there was spare capacity of approximately 55,000,000,000 cubic meters in the Ukrainian gas
transit system;
Whereas Gazprom cut off natural gas exports to Europe via Ukraine in 2006, and again in 2009, over supply and
pricing disputes with Ukraine's state-owned oil and gas company, Naftogaz;
Whereas transit of Russian natural gas to Europe via Ukraine declined precipitously after the completion of
Nord Stream 1 in 2011, falling from 80 percent to between 40 and 50 percent of Russia's total exports to Europe;
Whereas, in 2017, Russian gas accounted for 37 percent of Europe's natural gas imports, an increase of
5 percent over 2016;
Whereas, on December 12, 2018, the European Parliament overwhelmingly passed a resolution condemning both the
Russian Federation's aggression in the Kerch Strait and the construction of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline; and
Whereas, on December 11, 2018, the United States House of Representatives passed a resolution calling upon
the European
Union to reject the Nord Stream 2 pipeline and urging the President to use all available means to promote energy policies in
Europe that reduce European reliance on Russian energy exports:
... ... ...
(9) applauds and concurs with the European 2 Parliament's December 12, 2018, resolution condemning Russian aggression in the
Kerch Strait and
the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, calling for the pipeline's cancellation due to its threat to European energy security, and calling
on the Russian Federation to
7 guarantee freedom of navigation in the Kerch Strait;
and
(10) urges the President to continue working with Congress and our allies to ensure the appropriate policies to deter the Russian
Federation from further aggression.
Fortunately, these two neocons can make all the proclamations they want but without President Trump's support it's all just
words; neocon virtue signalling. And of course President Trump won't support what they're doing because he campaigned on and governs
as an anti-war president.
Ron Johnson is a Bushie neocon who actively supported the neocon ˇJebe! (Please Clap) Bush while Durbin is a Hillary Clinton
neocon who actively supported that drunken, corrupt, warmongering shrew.
Thank all that's holy that we have a genuine anti-war POTUS in office and not either of those two neocons, both of whom were
utterly in the pockets of defense contractors.
Thanks for your research on relevant naval law. The Ukrainian vessel is reported to have violated the ongoing protocol by failing
to take on a Russian pilot as it transited the strait and an important bridge could potentially have been attacked by those vessels.
This was a provocation by Ukraine that seems to have its desired effect on the U.S. Senate. For essential background on the Ukrainian
civil war, I recommend reading Stephen F. Cohen's article in the Nation in 2014, titled "Kiev's atrocities and the Silence of
the Hawks." https://www.thenation.com/article/kievs-atrocities-and-silence-hawks/
Poland and Ukraine cannot stop provoking laughter from international observers. After the
lunatic idea circulating in Ukraine of resurrecting the country's nuclear arsenal, it is
now Poland's turn to send shockwaves around Europe. Polish foreign minister Czaputowicz
proposed that France share its nuclear arsenal and hand over its seat on the United Nations
Security Council (UNSC) to the European Union. It is is worth noting that this suggestion did
not even receive an official comment from Paris, showing that there was little prospect of the
Polish idea being taken seriously . Warsaw continues its opposition to the EU's domestic
policies on migration and austerity, while in foreign policy, agrees with countries like
Ukraine and the United States, particularly the neocon faction opposed to Russia. If there is a
distinctive feature in the political proposals that come from Poland, it is an acute
Russophobia. The idea of hosting a US base on Polish territory, and assuming its
costs, is another Polish proposal. The Americans are serious considering taking them up on
the offer .
The Poles and the Ukrainians would be willing to sacrifice themselves on behalf of their
allies for the privilege of being able to poke the Bear. Fortunately for them, Paris, London
and Berlin have neither the military capabilities nor the suicidal intention to challenge
Moscow with permanent military bases on its border. Neither do they wish to share their nuclear
weapons with other EU countries, nor engage in any such hare-brained ideas that threaten
humanity as the American Aegis Ashore system or the planned US withdrawal from the INF
Treaty.
Off topic...but of interest to many here at MoA....The snipers that executed the Maidan
massacre in Kiev have come forward and have made sworn testimony///
63
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201802151061669056-georgian-snipers-maidan-evidence
"Adding a new twist to the story about the 2014 Maidan shootings, a Sputnik correspondent has
met with the purported snipers. The agency has obtained the records of interrogation of Koba
Nergadze and Aleksandre Revazishvili. Both Georgian nationals, they are ready to testify in a
Ukrainian court."
It was a matter of time when the participants in the Maidan Massacre would surface the coup
d'état didn't stop the carnage of Ukrainians nor corruption of people in power. The
witness accounts were described in the hours as the events unfolded. Only the faces were not
known ...
Maidan Massacre Bombshell: #Georgian snipers reportedly confess to massacring along
with Lithuanian snipers both #Police and #maidan protesters in #Ukraine in Italian
#documentary just broadcast by most popular
#Italian #TV channel [h/t Ivan Katchanovski]
Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard19:45:09 05/12/2018Aleksey
Zhuravko
Dear friends!
FOR INFORMATION. EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THIS! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO HIDE THE TRUTH.
Today I had a conversation with a serious person from Kiev who is on active service. For
safety reasons I cannot give its name. I trust this person. Many thanks that there are still
decent people.
Here is what he told me. The special
operation in the Black Sea made on November 25th in the Kerch Strait was prepared over
three months by the American intelligence agencies and the SBU. All orders on carrying out a
provocation in the Black Sea were given to Poroshenko by the US Embassy in Ukraine. And
Poroshenko, in turn, personally gave the instructions to the performers. He consciously sent
boats and young guys off to be shot, and members of the crew were equipped with a large number
of cartridges and small arms, having being told that they must fire back to the last bullet.
They were sent to a certain death for the purpose of carrying out a provocation.
There's more. Poroshenko gave the order to not hold any negotiations with Russia concerning
returning sailors, and if the people will insist and kick up a storm around it, then drag out
he negotiation process as much as possible. This order came from the US Embassy in Ukraine.
Dear parents of the aggrieved Ukrainian sailors detained by the border service of Russia!
Your children were used by Poroshenko and his gang as cannon fodder, and you continue to be
deceived. That 50,000 hryvnia that he promised you will end very quickly. He met you only to
calm your anger, to appease you, like saying "we are dealing with this issue
"... This shtick of blaming US state crimes on foreign influence is getting annoying. You know none of this would be happening if the DO didn't like it. If you want to stop CIA's common plan or conspiracy for war, you've got to end the impunity that permits it. Ratify the Rome Statute. With the judiciary completely gelded, that's the only way to get the CIA regime under control. It's that or DCI Poppy Hager swings at Nuremberg II. ..."
"... Nuland admitted to spending $5 billion to set Maidan up. That $5B is worth 10 times that much in Ukraine. You don't spend that kind of money unless you have a follow up plan, and NATOizing Ukraine to attack Russia was it. The trigger was NATO's bitch, the EU, creating such a horrible deal for Ukraine that only an imbecile would have accepted it. Viktor Yanukovych was no imbecile. The "Russian deal" wasn't all that great for Ukraine either, it was just infinitely better than the turd the EU told Yanukovych to sign. ..."
One of the local Washington television stations was doing a typical early morning honoring
our soldiers schtick just before Thanksgiving. In it soldiers stationed far from home were
treated to videolinks so they could talk to their families and everyone could nod happily and
wish themselves a wonderful holiday. Not really listening, I became interested when I half
heard that the soldier being interviewed was spending his Thanksgiving in Ukraine.
It occurred to me that the soldier just might have committed a security faux pas by
revealing where he was, but I also recalled that there have been joint military maneuvers as
well as some kind of training mission going on in the country, teaching the Ukrainian Army how
to use the shiny new sophisticated weapons that the United States was providing it with to
defend against "Russian aggression."
Ukraine is only one part of the world where the Trump Administration has expanded the
mission of democracy promotion, only in Kiev the reality is more like faux democracy
promotion since Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is clearly exploiting
a situation that he himself provoked . He envisions setting himself up as a victim of
Moscow to aid in his attempts to establish his own power through a security relationship with
Washington. That in turn will help his bid for reelection in March 2019 elections, in which his
poll numbers are currently running embarrassingly low largely due to the widescale corruption
in his government. Poroshenko has already done much to silence the press in his county while
the developing crisis with Russia has enabled him to declare martial law in the eastern parts
of the country where he is most poorly regarded. If it all works out, he hopes to win the
election and subsequently, it is widely believed, he will move to expand his own executive
authority.
There also has to be some consideration the encounter with the Russians on the Kerch Strait
was contrived by Poroshenko with the assistance of a gaggle of American neoconservative and
Israeli advisers who have been actively engaged with the Ukrainian government for the past
several years. The timing was good for Poroshenko for his own domestic political reasons but it
was also an opportunity for the neocons warmongers that surround Trump and proliferate inside
the Beltway to scuttle any possible meeting between a vulnerable Donald Trump and Vladimir
Putin at the G20 gathering in Argentina.
The defection of Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen, together with the assumption that a lot of
anti-Trump dirt will be spilled soon, means that the American president had to be even more
cautious than ever in any dealings with Moscow and all he needed was a nod of approval from
National Security Adviser John Bolton and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to cancel the
encounter. A heads-of-state meeting might not have solved anything but it certainly would be
better than the current drift towards a new cold war. If the United States has only one vitally
important relationship anywhere it is with Russia as the two countries are ready, able and
apparently willing to destroy the world under the aegis of self-defense.
Given the anti-Russian hysteria prevailing in the U.S. and the ability of the neocons to
switch on the media, it should come as no surprise that the Russian-Ukrainian incident
immediately generated calls from the press and politicians for the White House to get tough
with the Kremlin. It is important to note that the United States has no actual national
interest in getting involved in a war between Russia and Ukraine if that should come about. The
two Eastern European countries are neighbors and have a long history of both friendship and
hostility but the only thing clear about the conflict is that it is up to them to sort things
out and no amount of sanctions and jawing by concerned congressmen will change that fact.
Other Eastern European nations that similarly have problems with Russia should also be
considered provocateurs as they seek to create tension to bind the United States more closely
to them through the NATO alliance. The reality is that today's Russian Federation is not the
Soviet Union and it neither aspires to nor can afford hegemony over its former allies. What it
has made very clear that it does want is a modus vivendi where Russia itself is not
being threatened by the West.
Recent
military maneuvers in Poland and Lithuania and the stationing of new missiles in Eastern
Europe do indeed pose a genuine threat to Moscow as it places NATO forces on top of Russia's
border. When Russia reacts to incursions by NATO warships and planes right along its borders,
it is accused of acting aggressively. One wonders how the U.S. government would respond if a
Russian aircraft carrier were to take up position off the eastern seaboard and were to begin
staging reconnaissance flights. Or if the Russian army were to begin military exercises with
the Cubans? Does anyone today remember the Bay of Pigs?
Crying wolf provides a perfect pretext for the Empire's MIC to line the pockets of the
merchants of death. In keeping with its time-honored tradition of propping up tyrants
kowtowing to imperial hegemonic wishes, America hardly has friends without some military
collaboration. Even the recently anointed sh*thole countries of Africa over 50 such countries
have American military cooperation agreements under the guise of the infamous AFRICOM and the
War on Terror. The number of military bases in sh*thole African countries remain unknown.
..the ability of the neocons to switch on the media
Hard to distinguish between the two really. The "free press" of WMD notoriety, Ghaddafi's
"genocidal drive" against Libyan citizens, Iraq's involvement with 9/11? Iranian arms in
Yemen that have not massacred children in school buses? Iranian fabricated nuclear weapons?
Syrian chemical attacks?
The biggest threats to America come from its "friends"
America is being unwittingly exonerated as an innocent bystander unable to choose her own
friends. It so happens America's "friends" share the common trait of pushing for war. In
countries awash in petrodollars, purchasing billions of dollars in arms used in Yemen to
murder children; Zionists are gifted with American state of the art arsenals to murder
Palestinians, including women and children. The biggest threat to America comes from inside
the deep state itself, especially with the Zionist Israel Firsters pulling strings at
will.
I agree with Phil Giraldi on its analysis of US foreign policy. When lying with dogs, you get
fleas. This saying holds especially true for the so-called US friends such as the Saudis,
Israelis, Ukrainians, Poles, and the Brits. The NeoZion gang plays President Trump is an open
secret. He still employes one of its guiding spirits as national security adviser. As long
this Gordian knot is not cut, American foreign policy will not change, and it's getting
worse. These folks who surround Trump want war, first with Iran and then with Russia. Their
lackey Poroshenko is doing the bitting of Trump and the Zionist regime and their European
puppets. The Zionist regime is deeply involved in steering up tensions. Prime minister
Wolodymyr Hrojsman is Jewish. Is anyone surprised?
What chance does peace have with these people having Trump's ear: Javanka Kushner, Gina
Haspel, Nikki Haley, Mike Pompeo, Mike Pence, Mad Dog Mattis, and John Bolton?
Around 1890 one Rothschild wrote to another 'the only enemy of jews is jews'.
In my opinion at present the only enemy of the USA is the USA, that part of the USA that
failed in getting Hillary elected.
On the European continent a similar situation, even an establishment Dutch politician, of a
christian party, Segers, found out that a substantial part of the Dutch see the government as
the enemy.
He has the illusion that pr can save him, and his cronies.
He never understood. That was evident the moment he started floating names like Romney for
his cabinet. Personally, I sympathize with Trump after what the deep state has done to him
and his family, and I even respect the guy for telling things like they are – the poor
autistic bastard just can't help but blurt out the truth about things* but he's also not the
guy we needed. We needed a fearless, ruthless, and cunning fighter ready to martyr himself
for our interests, the people's interests.
*Global Warming IS a scam – the Paris Accords would not decrease CO2 levels even
under perfect – near miraculous – circumstances and is merely being floated by
the Chinese so they can give off the appearance of doing something while doing nothing, as
they have done before.
The EU IS a vehicle for Germany.
Hatti IS a shit hole, it's just that non-autistic people have the good sense not to say
that out loud.
Trudeau DOES have a fake eyebrow.
Hillary DOES wear a wig, or at least hair extensions on occasion.
China IS screwing us over economically.
Mexico isn't sending us their best, they are dumping their poverty problem onto us.
NATO doesn't have a purpose.
We shouldn't go to war with N. Korea.
We shouldn't destroy Syria but destroy ISIS.
John Brennan and the FBI really did run a deep state coup plot against him during the
campaign and first 100 days.
Russia isn't a big deal unless we make them a big deal.
@jilles dykstra 'One
of many truths lost within this discourse is the reality that the creation of a no-fly zone
would, in the words of the most senior general in the US Armed Forces, mean the US going to
war "against Syria and Russia". '
For a peek into Establishment orthodoxy, check out "Why Does America Spend So Much on
Israel?" on Beltway Conservatism's Cartoon Network, aka the PragerU Channel. I've recently
started auditing classes there via the Videos page here at The Unz Review.
Beyond parody, a pensioned warrior narrates over 3rd grade graphics, telling most
Americans all they care to know about what he calls "Izrul." Perhaps Mr. Giraldi could,
despite the apparent taboo, leave a comment and get some discussion going with the Team Red
NPCs -- it hasn't worked for me.
@Art I've wondered
why we are the way we are. Then I came across this, and I understood:
D.H. Lawrence
"All the other stuff, the love, the democracy, the floundering into lust, is a sort of
by-play. The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet
melted."
This shtick of blaming US state crimes on foreign influence is getting annoying. You know
none of this would be happening if the DO didn't like it. If you want to stop CIA's common
plan or conspiracy for war, you've got to end the impunity that permits it. Ratify the Rome
Statute. With the judiciary completely gelded, that's the only way to get the CIA regime
under control. It's that or DCI Poppy Hager swings at Nuremberg II.
"All the other stuff, the love, the democracy, the floundering into lust, is a
sort of by-play. The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has
never yet melted."
The leading sponsors of terror in the world are Israel and the Zionist controlled U.S. and
Britain and NATO and their terrorist mercenaries ISIS aka AL CIADA and all of the various off
shoots that have been seeded throughout the world by the satanic Zionists.
The Zionists have a long historical experience with bringing terror to the world , one
example being the Zionist/ Bolshevik revolution in Russia where the Bolsheviks killed some 60
million Russians bringing terror to Russia on an industrial level turning the whole country
into a slaughter house!
The Zionist attack on the WTC is but another example of Zionist terrorism, where in one
fell swoop the Zionists killed some 3000 Americans and got away with it and every thinking
American knows that the Zionists did it!
The greatest terrorist kabal in the world is Zionism and these terrorists have control of
every facet of the U.S. government and at some point are going to provoke a war with Russia
that will get the whole world blown to hell and in fact this is what the Zionists want as
they believe they will survive in their DUMBS akd Deep Underground Military Bases which they
have in the U.S. and Israel and Britain, but they care not for the rest of humanity, that is
terrorism in spades!
The enemy is not at the gates , the enemy is in control of the U.S. government and is
going to be the destruction of America!
You can't really pin Ukraine on Trump. Maidan was not spontaneous.
Nuland admitted to spending $5 billion to set Maidan up. That $5B is worth 10 times that
much in Ukraine. You don't spend that kind of money unless you have a follow up plan, and
NATOizing Ukraine to attack Russia was it. The trigger was NATO's bitch, the EU, creating
such a horrible deal for Ukraine that only an imbecile would have accepted it. Viktor
Yanukovych was no imbecile. The "Russian deal" wasn't all that great for Ukraine either, it
was just infinitely better than the turd the EU told Yanukovych to sign.
The real story on Russia is this: the same people that own every "Western liberal
democracy" owned the USSR. The Russians got rid of them, and the USSR collapsed. A new
invasion was hatched under the guise of "Westernizing" Russia. When the Russians saw that
Yeltsin was suckered, and it was the same game, run by the same people, they got a new
sheriff. That sheriff started to sort things out, while the owners fled to the UK and Israel.
The lives of Russians got better, as the owners are gradually being stripped of their power.
The long and short of it, our owners want their ownership of Russia restored.
All wars are economic wars. Capitalism and communism are the two sides of the same coin.
Both seek to concentrate ownership, just in different ways using different scams.
The reason why Trump supports the Ukraine is easy.
"According to the European Jewish Congress, as of 2014, there are 360,000–400,000
Jews in Ukraine."
And there you have it. Wherever or whatever the interest of Jewry there will be the United States standing tall
behind it. Let's just say the Ukraine is guaranteed to stay poor. While the Jews get rich!
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is clearly exploiting a situation that he himself
provoked. He envisions setting himself up as a victim of Moscow to aid in his attempts to
establish his own power through a security relationship with Washington. That in turn will
help his bid for reelection in March 2019 elections
Nah, Porky needs a war to avoid an election which he would undoubtedly lose.
There's no use having an empire if you can't exact an economic advantage. Ultimately, most of
the events unfolding today are about keeping the loot flowing to lower Manhattan and central
London.
Teenagers who get in trouble often have to ditch their bad friends to turn their lives
around. There is still a chance for the United States if we keep our distance from the bad
friends
It's hard to do if you are in fact the worst of those bad friends.
friends who have been convincing us to make poor choices.
The poor choices had been made long before these friends even appeared on the scene. In
fact, many of these friends owe their very existence and/or influence to the poor choices the
US had made. It's so disingenuous to blame the US politics on someone's influence when the
reality is exactly the opposite.
If the US were in normal country prepared to behave in a sensible way it would've picked
much better partners. But the thing is the US isn't a normal country; it doesn't want
partners – in wants vassals, so it is naturally limited in its choice of friends.
September 17, 2014 US Pursues 134 Wars Around the World
The US is now involved in 134 wars or none, depending on your definition of war The White
House spent much of last week trying to figure out if the word "war" was the right one to
describe its military actions against the Islamic State. US Secretary of State John Kerry was
at first reluctant: "We're engaged in a major counterterrorism operation," he told CBS News
on Sept. 11. "I think war is the wrong terminology and analogy but the fact is that we are
engaged in a very significant global effort to curb terrorist activity I don't think people
need to get into war fever on this. I think they have to view it as a heightened level of
counter terrorist activity." – Global Post
"Not only are white supremacists from across the West flocking to Ukraine to learn from
the combat experience of their fascist brothers-in-arms, they are doing so openly, under the
nose of a shrugging law enforcement -- chronicling their experiences on social media before
they bring their lessons back home."
The timing was good for Poroshenko for his own domestic political reasons but it was
also an opportunity for the neocons warmongers that surround Trump and proliferate inside
the Beltway to scuttle any possible meeting between a vulnerable Donald Trump and Vladimir
Putin at the G20 gathering in Argentina.
Trump isn't vulnerable he hired the Deep State apparatchiks, Bolton, Pompeo and many
others. Trump is a Deep Stater and is doing a great Kabuki theater to dupe his followers into
believing his hands are tied.
How do YOU expect me (and others) to swallow YOUR position?
with a great gulps of satisfaction, that's how.
The conflict between Russia and Ukraine was manufactured by the ZUS State Dept. ((Victoria
Nuland)) and John McBloodstain in particular, when Putin upset the Zionist's plans to do a
'Libya' – to Syria.
It was a bloody coup foisted with 5 billion federal reserve note$, of the famous phone
call ('Yats is our guy'). Since then the imbeciles in Ukraine have been doing Nazi salutes
while taking orders from Jewish supremacist Zionists like Ihor Kolomoyskyi and assorted ZUS
Zionists.
The conflict with Iran started when the CIA deposed the duly elected president Mohammed
Mossadeq in 1953, and installed the brutal quisling Shah in his place. To keep the Iranian
people terrorized for decades into submitting to this perfidy, they utilized the CIA and
Mossad run SAVAK.
In reality this is mostly neocolonial way of dealing with countries. Allowing local oligarchy
to steal as much loaned by foreign states money as they can and converting the country into the
debt slave. Look at Greece and Ukraine for two prominent examples.
The position of OneCommentator is a typical position of defenders and propagandists
of neoliberalism
IMF is part of "Washington Consensus" with the direct goal of converting countries into debt slaves of industrialized
West. It did not work well with Acia counties, but it is great success in some countries in Europe and most of Africa and Latin
America (with Argentina as the most recent example)
Notable quotes:
"... As central banks such as the FED and the ECB operate with insatiable greed and cannot be audited or regulated by any government body anywhere in the world, due to their charters having been set up that way, then bankers are free to meet secretly and plot depressions so as to gain full control over sovereign nations and manipulate markets so that their "chums and agents" in business can buy up assets and land in depressed economies – while possible wars could also make corporations and banks more money as well! ..."
..."neoliberal", concept behind the word, has nothing to do with liberal or liberty or
freedom..
Wrong. Traditional liberalism supported both social and economic freedoms. That
included support for most of the civil rights and freedoms we enjoy today AND free trade and
free investments. It used to be that liberals were practically unpopular with right wing
(traditional conservative for example) parties but more or less on the same side as left wing
parties, mainly because of their social positions. More recently the left wing parties became
more and more unhappy with the economic freedoms promoted by liberals while the right wing
parties embraced both the economic and social freedoms to a certain degree.
So, the leftists
found themselves in a bind practically having reversed roles which the the conservatives as
far as support for liberalism goes. So, typically, they're using propaganda to cover their
current reactionary tendencies and coins a new name for liberals: neoliberals which, they
say, are not the same as liberals (who are their friends since liberal means freedom lover
and they like to use that word a lot).
"austerity" is the financial sectors' solution to its survival after it sucked most the
value out of the economy and broke it.
Austerity is caused by incompetent governments unable to balance their budgets.
They had 60 years to do it properly after ww2 and the reconstruction that followed but many
of them never did it. So now it is very simple: governments ran out of money and nobody wants
to lend them more. That's it, they hit the wall and there is nothing left on the bottom if
the purse.
The IMF exists to lend money to governments, so it's comic that it wags its finger at
governments that run up debt.
It is a bit more complicated than that. Developed countries like Greece are supposed to run
more or less balanced budgets over longer periods. Sure, they need to borrow money on a
regular basis and may that is supposed to be done by issuing bonds or other forms of
government debt that investors buy on the open market. For such governments the IMF is
supposed to just fill in in a minor way not to provide the bulk of all the loans needed on a
temporary basis. Because of incompetent governments Greece is practically bankrupt hence it
is not going to be able to pay back most of the existing debts and definitely not newer
debts. So practically the IMF is not, ending money to them, it is giving them the money. So,
I would say that they have a good reason to wag its finger.
If private, stockholder-held central banks such as the FED and the FED-backed ECB were not
orchestrating this depression, and anybody who believed they were was a "wacko-nutcase
conspiracy theorist", then why do they keep repeating the same mistakes of forcing un-payable
bailout loans, collapsing banks, wiping out people's savings and then imposing austerity on
those nations year after year – when it is clearly a failed policy?
Possible Answers :
1. Bank presidents are all ex-hippies who got hooked on LSD in the 70's and have not yet
recovered fully as their brains are still fried!
2. Central bankers have been recruited from insane asylums in both Europe and America in
government-sponsored programs to see whether blithering idiots are capable of running large,
international financial institutions.
3. All catastrophic events in the banking/business world, such as the derivative and
housing crash of 2008, the Stock Market Crash of 1929 and The Great Depression of 1929-40
were totally random events that just occurred out of nowhere and central banks were caught
off guard – leaving them no option but to play with their willies for years on end
until a major war suddenly happened to pull the whole world out of "bad times"!
4. As central banks such as the FED and the ECB operate with insatiable greed and cannot
be audited or regulated by any government body anywhere in the world, due to their charters
having been set up that way, then bankers are free to meet secretly and plot depressions so
as to gain full control over sovereign nations and manipulate markets so that their "chums
and agents" in business can buy up assets and land in depressed economies – while
possible wars could also make corporations and banks more money as well!
Please choose one of the possible answers from above and write a short 500 word essay on
whether it may or may not true – using well-defined logical arguments. I expect your
answers in by Friday of this week as I would like to get pissed out of my mind at the pub on
Saturday night!
The neoliberal idea is that the cultivation itself should be conducted privately as
well. They see "austerity" as a way of forcing that agenda.
..."neoliberal", concept behind the word, has nothing to do with liberal or liberty or
freedom...it is a PR spin concept that names slavery with a a word that sounds like the
opposite...if "they" called it neoslavery it just wouldn't sell in the market for political
concepts.
..."austerity" is the financial sectors' solution to its survival after it sucked most the
value out of the economy and broke it. To mend it was a case of preservation of the elite and
the devil take the hindmost, that's most of us.
...and even Labour, the party of trade unionism, has adopted austerity to drive its
policy.
...we need a Peoples' Party to stand for the revaluation of labour so we get paid for our
effort rather than the distortion, the rich xxx poor divide, of neoslavery austerity.
"... "When I look at this latest incident in the Black Sea, all what's happening in Donbass – everything indicates that the current Ukrainian leadership is not interested in resolving this situation at all, especially in a peaceful way," ..."
"... This is a party of war and as long as they stay in power, all such tragedies, all this war will go on. ..."
"... "As they say, for one it's war, for other – it's mother. That's reason number one why the Ukrainian government is not interested in a peaceful resolution of the conflict," ..."
"... Second, you can always use war to justify your failures in economy, social policy. You can always blame things on an aggressor. ..."
"... "We care about Ukraine because Ukraine is our neighbor," ..."
Russia's President Vladimir Putin has branded the Ukrainian leadership a "party of war"
which would continue fueling conflicts while they stay in power, giving the recent Kerch Strait
incident as an example. "When I look at this latest incident in the Black Sea, all what's
happening in Donbass – everything indicates that the current Ukrainian leadership is not
interested in resolving this situation at all, especially in a peaceful way," Putin told
reporters during a media conference in the aftermath of the G20 summit in Buenos Aires,
Argentina.
This is a party of war and as long as they stay in power, all such tragedies, all this
war will go on.
The Kiev authorities are craving war primarily for two reasons – to rip profits from
it, and to blame all their own domestic failures on it and actions of some sort of
"aggressors."
"As they say, for one it's war, for other – it's mother. That's reason number one
why the Ukrainian government is not interested in a peaceful resolution of the conflict,"
Putin stated.
Second, you can always use war to justify your failures in economy, social policy. You
can always blame things on an aggressor.
This approach to statecraft by the Ukrainian authorities deeply concerns Russia's President.
"We care about Ukraine because Ukraine is our neighbor," Putin said.
Tensions between Russia and Ukraine have been soaring after the incident in the Kerch
Strait. Last weekend three Ukrainian Navy ships tried to break through the strait without
seeking the proper permission from Russia. Following a tense stand-off and altercation with
Russia's border guard, the vessels were seized and their crews detained over their violation of
the country's border.
While Kiev branded the incident an act of "aggression" on Moscow's part, Russia
believes the whole Kerch affair to be a deliberate "provocation" which allowed Kiev to
declare a so-called "partial" martial law ahead of Ukraine's presidential
election.
PRESIDENT: This is incredible! I never ordered such a thing!
SOVIET AMBASSADOR (scornfully): Our [intelligence] source was the New York Times.
-- "Dr. Strangelove"
REALITY:
US President Donald Trump is still unsure whether to meet with Vladimir Putin, pending a
'full report' about the Kerch Strait incident that by pure coincidence happened just days
before the upcoming G20 summit in Argentina.
A long as neocons dominate the USA foreign policy establishment Ukraine will get
unconditional support as long as it remain hostile to Russia. And from geopolitical perspective
Ukraine does deserve support as it seriously weaken Russia and the major (according to Trump
administration) geopolitical enemy of the USA (along with China).
The current event can be viewed as artificially sped up process which would occur anyway, but
with less economic losses. Baltic scenario was waiting for Ukraine sooner of later, as Western
Ukrainian nationalists automatically became the major political force after independence and were
nurtured by all Ukrainian governments, including the government of Yanukovich (who become kind of
Godfather of Svoboda party with the calculation that it will antagonize enough voters in the East
that he can win the reelection).
Notable quotes:
"... Poroshenko had to know that his attempt to send warships through a narrow passage between what the Kremlin insists are two portions of Russian territory was certain to cause an incident. Why did Kiev risk (if not avidly seek) such a confrontation? And why now? There are several likely motives. ..."
"... Kiev wants to increase pressure on NATO, and especially the United States, to take a harder stance against Moscow. Despite their official position that the Kremlin must disgorge Crimea and end support for pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, Western policy looks increasingly stale and ineffectual. Some European officials even muse that it may be time to reconsider (weaken) the economic sanctions that the West imposed on Russia. President Trump has stated that Russia should be re-admitted to the G-7 group of leading economic powers. ..."
"... Ukrainian leaders are especially determined to nurture greater bilateral strategic cooperation with the United States. The notion that the Trump administration has pursued a "soft" policy toward Russia, much less one that amounts to appeasement, has always been overstated. Trump's initiatives are actually more hardline than those Barack Obama's administration embraced. That is especially true regarding Washington's relationship with Kiev . Whereas Obama consistently refused to provide weapons to Ukraine, the Trump administration has approved two major arms sales, one of which included sophisticated anti-tank missiles. U.S. troops have participated in joint military exercises with Ukrainian forces, and Secretary of Defense James Mattis concedes that the United States is training Ukrainian units at a base in western Ukraine. ..."
"... Poroshenko thus has ample foreign policy reasons for taking the actions he did in the Kerch Strait. He also has significant political and ideological incentives. His government did not announce the official date for Ukraine's 2019 presidential election until two days following the naval clash; it is now set for March 31. To say that the timing of the announcement was suspicious is an understatement. ..."
"... In addition to creating a "rally around the flag" effect, thereby boosting Poroshenko's status, Russian seizure of the Ukrainian vessels gave the president a justification to impose outright martial law in 10 regions of eastern Ukraine -- areas likely to be especially hostile to his political prospects. It could also serve as a basis for tightening Ukraine's already worrisome restrictions on freedom of expression. ..."
"... The vagueness of the applicable laws (and the absence of any meaningful independent review or right of appeal) has been especially alarming. Indeed, it seems that anyone who disputes the government's account of the Maidan revolution (especially those who dare to mention the role of ultranationalist, neo-fascist elements) or the conflict in eastern Ukraine is likely to be silenced. ..."
The recent clash between Russian and Ukrainian naval vessels in the
Kerch Strait has generated a flurry of alarm. NATO was compelled to call
an emergency meeting with Ukraine and the UN Security Council convened an urgent session to
discuss the crisis. Exercising their usual tendency to oversimplify murky geopolitical
rivalries, Western officials and journalists embraced the knee-jerk narrative that the incident
is yet another case of Vladimir Putin's blatant aggression and "
outlaw behavior " against its peace-loving, democratic neighbor. Right on cue, CNN, MSNBC,
and other media outlets dispatched stridently anti-Russian
editorials masquerading as news stories .
In reality, the Kerch Strait incident involves a complex mixture of factors. They include
the tense Russian-Ukrainian bilateral relationship, Kiev's broader foreign policy objectives,
and Ukraine's volatile domestic politics.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko had to know that a decision to send three naval vessels
through the Kerch Strait would be disruptive. The strait, which connects the Black Sea and the
Sea of Azov, separates Russia's Taman Peninsula from the Crimea Peninsula. Despite Moscow's
annexation of the latter in 2014, Kiev still considers Crimea to be Ukrainian territory, a
position that the United States and its allies back emphatically. Moreover, passage through the
strait is the only oceanic link between Ukraine's Black Sea ports and those on the Azov. Kiev,
not surprisingly, views the strait as international waters. Russia, however, regards the
waterway as its own territorial waters and viewed the attempted transit by the three Ukrainian
ships as a violation.
Whatever the legal merits of the competing positions regarding sovereignty over Crimea and
the status of the Kerch Strait, the reality is that Russia controls that peninsula and is
unlikely to ever
restore it to Ukraine , despite Western demands. Poroshenko had to know that his attempt to
send warships through a narrow passage between what the Kremlin insists are two portions of
Russian territory was certain to cause an incident. Why did Kiev risk (if not avidly seek) such
a confrontation? And why now? There are several likely motives.
Kiev wants to increase pressure on NATO, and especially the United States, to take a
harder stance against Moscow. Despite their official position that the Kremlin must disgorge
Crimea and end support for pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, Western policy looks
increasingly stale and ineffectual. Some European officials even muse that it may be time to
reconsider (weaken) the economic sanctions that the West imposed on Russia. President Trump
has stated
that Russia should be re-admitted to the G-7 group of leading economic powers.
Such talk is potentially quite threatening to Ukraine's interests. Creating an incident that
reminds Kiev's Western supporters (and the rest of the world) of Moscow's aggressive tendencies
makes any prospect of even a limited rapprochement between Russia and either NATO or the
European Union less likely.
Ukrainian leaders are especially determined to nurture greater bilateral strategic
cooperation with the United States. The notion that the Trump administration has pursued a
"soft" policy toward Russia, much less one that amounts to appeasement, has always been
overstated. Trump's initiatives are actually more hardline than those Barack Obama's
administration embraced. That is especially true regarding
Washington's relationship with Kiev . Whereas Obama consistently refused to provide weapons
to Ukraine, the Trump administration has approved two major arms sales, one of which included
sophisticated anti-tank missiles. U.S. troops have participated in joint military exercises
with Ukrainian forces, and Secretary of Defense James Mattis concedes that the United States is
training Ukrainian units at a base in western Ukraine.
Poroshenko and his associates want to encourage and intensify those trends. They hope that
creating a new incident underscoring aggressive Russian conduct will lead the Trump
administration to boost arms sales and other forms of bilateral military cooperation. Even if
Trump proved reluctant to adopt that course, domestic and international pressure might leave
him little choice. Indeed, Western news media outlets excoriated
Trump for not immediately condemning Russia as an outright aggressor in the Kerch Strait
incident.
Poroshenko thus has ample foreign policy reasons for taking the actions he did in the
Kerch Strait. He also has significant political and ideological incentives. His government did
not announce
the official date for Ukraine's 2019 presidential election until two days following the
naval clash; it is now set for March 31. To say that the timing of the announcement was
suspicious is an understatement.
No candidate in the extremely crowded field is likely to exceed the 50 percent mark needed
to avoid a runoff, but recent surveys have indicated that Poroshenko is in surprisingly poor
political shape. Most
polls showed him receiving between 8 and 15 percent of the first-round vote. The leading
candidate is former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko, with Poroshenko running in third.
Corruption scandals continue to bedevil his administration, making his re-election (or even his
ability to make the runoff) far from certain.
In addition to creating a "rally around the flag" effect, thereby boosting Poroshenko's
status, Russian seizure of the Ukrainian vessels gave the president a justification to impose
outright martial law in 10 regions of eastern Ukraine -- areas likely to be especially hostile
to his political prospects. It could also serve as a basis for tightening Ukraine's already
worrisome restrictions on freedom of expression.
That track record should trouble Kiev's backers in the West. To wage war against eastern
separatists, Kiev early on not only instituted military conscription, it arrested
critics of that action. Authorities jailed television journalist and blogger Ruslan Kotsaba
and
charged him with treason for making a video denouncing the conscription law. Kotsaba become
Amnesty International's first "prisoner of conscience" in Ukraine since the 2014 so-called
Maidan revolution.
The vagueness of the applicable laws (and the absence of any meaningful independent
review or right of appeal) has been especially alarming. Indeed, it seems that anyone who
disputes the government's account of the Maidan revolution (especially those who dare to
mention the role of ultranationalist, neo-fascist elements) or the conflict in eastern Ukraine
is likely to be silenced.
Bogdan Ovcharuk, a spokesperson for Amnesty International's Kiev office, expressed the
concerns of many proponents of freedom of expression when he told the BBC: "This is a very
slippery slope indeed. It's one thing to restrict access to texts advocating violence, but in
general banning books because their authors have views deemed unacceptable to politicians in
Kiev is deeply dangerous." The consequences of such a campaign, he warned , were certain to damage the
fabric of liberty.
Yet the Kiev government's restrictive policies continue unabated. In September 2015,
Ukrainian authorities issued an order
banning 34 journalists and seven bloggers from even entering the country. The Committee to
Protect Journalists reported that the newly publicized list was merely part of a larger
blacklist that contained the names of 388 individuals and more than a hundred organizations
that were barred from entry on the grounds of "national security" and allegedly posing a threat
to Ukraine's "territorial integrity."
Human Rights Watch criticized
the Kiev government in September 2017 for imposing yet more restrictions on journalists,
especially foreign correspondents. The Poroshenko government even pushed through
legislation barring criticism of Ukraine's past , including the role that ultra-nationalist
guerilla leader (and Nazi collaborator) Stepan Bandera and his followers
played in World War II. Censorship provisions and other media restrictions may become even
more widespread and arbitrary with Poroshenko's new declaration of martial law.
Ukraine's Western admirers typically ignore such evidence of authoritarian conduct, since it
does not fit with their portrayal of the country as an enlightened member of the democratic
community. The reality is that Ukraine epitomizes what CNN analyst Fareed Zakaria has aptly
described as an "illiberal democracy." The Poroshenko regime certainly does not warrant
unquestioned Western backing. Kiev is not above engaging in provocations to serve either its
political leadership's domestic agenda or its foreign policy objectives. The United States does
not have vital strategic or moral interests at stake in the overall Ukraine-Russia quarrel,
much less the latest parochial spat in the Kerch Strait. A cautious, restrained posture is
appropriate.
Ted Galen Carpenter, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a contributing editor
at The American Conservative, is the author of 12 books and more than 700 articles on
international affairs. His latest book is Gullible Superpower: U.S. Support for Bogus Foreign
Democratic Movements (forthcoming, February 2019).
Crimea was a variation of Kosovo. As the USA destroyed post WWII order, as its position weakens, real chaos can occurs. because
Might is right can work not only for the USA anymore. And in this theater the USA has no advantages, other then their geopolitical weight.
It is too fat from US mainland.
The USA speed up events probably by 20 years or so and coursed considerable suffering of the Ukrainian population. Ukraine was gradually
detaching itself from Russia anyway (which is a natural process for any xUSSR republic after the independence.). Essentially the USA
raped the Ukraine using Ukrainian nationalist as a fifth column of neoliberal globalization.
The net result of the premature and by-and-large successful attempt to break Ukraine from Russia and play Baltic's scenario (which
was possible due to existence of Western Ukrainian nationalists) was drastic impoverishing (already very poor after chaos and
neoliberal economic plunder of 1990th) of the bottom 99% of Ukrainian population which now is the poorest population of Europe.
Ukrainian nationalists now are finding the hard way that bordering with Russia created some problems for their agenda... The
good analogy is Canada and the USA.
In a way, incorporation of Western Ukraine into the USSR looks now like Stalin's geopolitical mistake. Now attempts to colonize
Eastern Ukraine by Western Ukrainian nationalists will face resistance and it already led to civil war in Donbass.
Things became way too complex and unpredictable in this region. Of course, neocons still are pushing their usual might is
right policy, not they might face considerable setbacks in the future. Like they did in Iraq. Which still did not affect much
their paychecks.
Notable quotes:
"... Russian warships fired at the Ukrainian vessels and rammed the tug. Three Ukrainian sailors were wounded, and 24 crew taken into custody. Russia's refusal to release the sailors was given by President Trump as the reason for canceling his Putin meeting. Moscow contends that Ukraine deliberately violated the new rules of transit that Kiev had previously observed, to create an incident. ..."
"... For his part, Putin has sought to play the matter down, calling it a "border incident, nothing more." "The incident in the Black Sea was a provocation organized by the authorities and maybe the president himself. (Poroshenko's) rating is falling so he needed to do something." Maxim Eristavi, a fellow at the Atlantic Council, seems to concur: "Poroshenko wants to get a head start in his election campaign. He is playing the card of commander in chief, flying around in military uniform, trying to project that he is in control." ..."
"... Predictably, our interventionists decried Russian "aggression" and demanded we back up our Ukrainian "ally" and send military aid. Why was Poroshenko's ordering of gunboats into the Sea of Azov, while ignoring rules Russia set down for passage, provocative? Because Poroshenko, whose warships had previously transited the strait, had to know the risk that he was taking and that Russia might resist. ..."
"... Why would he provoke the Russians? Because, with his poll numbers sinking badly, Poroshenko realizes that unless he does something dramatic, his party stands little chance in next March's elections. ..."
"... Some Westerners want even more in the way of confronting Putin. Adrian Karatnycky of the Atlantic Council urges us to build up U.S. naval forces in the Black Sea, send anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, ratchet up sanctions on Russia, threaten to expel her from the SWIFT system of international bank transactions, and pressure Europe to cancel the Russians' Nord Stream 2 and South Stream oil pipelines into Europe. ..."
"... If Ukraine had a right to break free of Russia in 1991, why do not Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk have the right to break free of Kiev? ..."
On departure for the G-20 gathering in Buenos Aires, President Donald Trump canceled his planned weekend meeting with Vladimir
Putin, citing as his reason the Russian military's seizure and holding of three Ukrainian ships and 24 sailors.
But was Putin really the provocateur in Sunday's naval clash outside Kerch Strait, the Black Sea gateway to the Sea of Azov?
Or was the provocateur Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko?
First, a bit of history.
In 2014, after the pro-Russian regime in Kiev was ousted in a coup, and a pro-NATO regime installed with U.S. backing, Putin detached
and annexed Crimea, for centuries the homeport of Russia's Black Sea fleet.
With the return of Crimea, Russia now occupied both sides of Kerch Strait. And this year, Russia completed a 12-mile bridge over
the strait and Putin drove the first truck across.
The Sea of Azov became a virtual Russian lake, access to which was controlled by Russia, just as access to the Black Sea is controlled
by Turkey.
While the world refused to recognize the new reality, Russia began to impose rules for ships transiting the strait, including
48 hours notice to get permission.
Ukrainian vessels, including warships, would have to notify Russian authorities before passing beneath the Kerch Strait Bridge
into the Sea of Azov to reach their major port of Mariupol.
Sunday, two Ukrainian artillery ships and a tug, which had sailed out of Odessa in western Ukraine, passed through what Russia
now regards as its territorial waters off Crimea and the Kerch Peninsula. Destination: Mariupol.
The Ukrainian vessels refused to obey Russian directives to halt.
Russian warships fired at the Ukrainian vessels and rammed the tug. Three Ukrainian sailors were wounded, and 24 crew taken
into custody. Russia's refusal to release the sailors was given by President Trump as the reason for canceling his Putin meeting.
Moscow contends that Ukraine deliberately violated the new rules of transit that Kiev had previously observed, to create an incident.
For his part, Putin has sought to play the matter down, calling it a "border incident, nothing more." "The incident in the
Black Sea was a provocation organized by the authorities and maybe the president himself. (Poroshenko's) rating is falling so he
needed to do something." Maxim Eristavi, a fellow at the Atlantic Council, seems to concur: "Poroshenko wants to get a head start
in his election campaign. He is playing the card of commander in chief, flying around in military uniform, trying to project that
he is in control."
Our U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley, however, accused Russia of "outlaw actions" against the Ukrainian vessels and "an arrogant act
the international community will never accept."
Predictably, our interventionists decried Russian "aggression" and demanded we back up our Ukrainian "ally" and send military
aid. Why was Poroshenko's ordering of gunboats into the Sea of Azov, while ignoring rules Russia set down for passage, provocative?
Because Poroshenko, whose warships had previously transited the strait, had to know the risk that he was taking and that Russia might
resist.
Why would he provoke the Russians? Because, with his poll numbers sinking badly, Poroshenko realizes that unless he does something
dramatic, his party stands little chance in next March's elections.
Immediately after the clash, Poroshenko imposed martial law in all provinces bordering Russia and the Black Sea, declared an invasion
might be imminent, demanded new Western sanctions on Moscow, called on the U.S. to stand with him, and began visiting army units
in battle fatigues.
Some Westerners want even more in the way of confronting Putin. Adrian Karatnycky of the Atlantic Council urges us to build
up U.S. naval forces in the Black Sea, send anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, ratchet up sanctions on Russia, threaten
to expel her from the SWIFT system of international bank transactions, and pressure Europe to cancel the Russians' Nord Stream 2
and South Stream oil pipelines into Europe.
But there is a larger issue here. Why is control of the Kerch Strait any of our business? Why is this our quarrel, to the point
that U.S. strategists want us to confront Russia over a Crimean Peninsula that houses the Livadia Palace that was the last summer
residence of Czar Nicholas II?
If Ukraine had a right to break free of Russia in 1991, why do not Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk have the right to break free
of Kiev?
Why are we letting ourselves be dragged into everyone's quarrels -- from who owns the islets in the South China Sea, to who owns
the Senkaku and Southern Kurils; and from whether Transnistria had a right to secede from Moldova, to whether South Ossetia and Abkhazia
had the right to break free of Georgia, when Georgia broke free of Russia?
Do the American people care a fig for these places? Are we really willing to risk war with Russia or China over who holds title
to them?
Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided
America Forever."
Imagine if Putin had imposed Martial Law after a border incident with any of Russia's
neighbours close to an election he was guaranteed to lose? USA would be at the UN demanding
an immediate end to the martial law and free and fair elections.
Poroshenko is just a cat's paw for the Anglo American Empire. His purpose is to help stir
up Russophobia internationally. While this simultaneous acts to rally Russia hating
Ukrainians to support him politically. Virtually anything that Poroshenko were to say or do
against Russia will be propagated by the MSM as the newest form of Russian aggression. The
Cold Warriors in the West need this feeding to grind their war axes with, and the Ukrainian
people need to be constantly reminded how much they hate Russia so as to support their ruling
elite presently in place.
Is it Russia's fault that 95% of Ukraines do not support the IMF/USA/NWO puppet/ lapdog
Petro Poroshenko? Serves USA right, go on installing Chocolate Kings into POWER/ They often
meltdown big time/
Russia repaid it's debt to IMF (Russian debt/GDP is only 18% vs US 108% and Ukrainian 81%)
and they sold all of their US treasury bonds last month, so they are decoupling from $$$
because the learned a hard lesson in 2008 world crisis caused by Wall Street greed! And
another one is coming! btw Ukraine owes Russia billions of $$$ for gas and oil Russia
provided them since they separated, and if Russia stops delivering gas via Ukraine and use
only Nord Stream 1, Turk Stream 1, China Ukraine and half of the Europe will either froze
(and meteorologist are announcing harsh and long winter) or have a huge bills for heating and
power!!! Ukraine can not sustain itself without IMF, World bank and EU loans (that will
strangle them as they did it to Argentina) and yet they are investing in military, dividing
people between ethnicity, religion, banning Russian LANGUAGE (same thing happened in Germany
after 1933.) and religion (Azov brigades are beating people in churches, looting them and
closing them), banning Ukrainian born Russian to form parties and representatives, they
already banned existing ones and they are doing the same thing to Hungarian minority (7%) and
Hungary and Orban are mad as hell, they even struck on Polish community, and majority of
Poles are ultra extreme Russophobes!!! It is a good thing Putin is not taking a bait to
strike back, and Petro "the Thief" Poroshenko act, declaring Martial Law, just because he is
polling 8%, 3+ months before the election (under Martial Law, he has all the power in the
country, he can postpone elections, he can arrest anyone, he can close news outlets, Martial
Law is a complete tyranny and yet we haven't heard nothing about that from human rights
activists and NGO's or Western MSM. If Putin did the same they would be screaming for
months!!!). And Putin explained it clearly and calmly, Poroshenko didn't declare martial law
when Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia, during now 4 years of fighting in
Donbass, but after this stunt he is doing it??? LOL
So basically, Poroshenko sent a boat to provoke Russia so he can find a cheap "excuse" to
impose martial law AND get some NATO support. The same-old line from him: "Oh
look 😮, Russian aggression in the Ukraine! NATO, liberate us! Help my Ukrop forces
fight off the Russian commies aggravating our territorial integrity!" (Complete sarcasm).
Poroshenko genocides his own Donbass people. Pathetic Nazi soyboy Poroshenko
is. A dictator that is nothing without NATO support. As an American who thinks
like Russel Bentley, I am behind Russia and Donbass 4 Life 🇷🇺
Putin has a point. They've had these issues along the border since 2014 and yet no martial
law has been imposed? Now because of a small skirmish in the Kerch Strait, Poroshenko has
imposed martial law and at least 10 regions/provinces....looks suspicious
😒
Mr Putin rely on Russian people and act for Russian people therefore as you see he always
comes on top ,,,any leader try to depend on outsider will be doomed to failure, for example
look at these Arab countries around Persian Gulf ,they are always looser ,,,I wish this
russian president more success ,,,
Russia should not have to explain anything to anyone about this act, th Crimean coast all
day. At 7 AM, a group of three military ships of the Ukrainian Navy sailed from Odessa and
illegally crossed the Russian border. Russia has been more than patient with this whole act
of aggression in the area. it is wrong that NATO is helping the George Soros created, illegal
government. bravo, good job Russia.of course america is on the wrong side AGAIN because of
the EU, BANKER CONTROLLED NATO THIS Sucks. Had hope the President would stop caving in to
this. The EU OWNS the UN, BOTH NEED TO BE EXPUNGED. get our troops out of NATO and BRING them
HOME to DEFEND the BORDERS and CLEAN OUT the sanctuary cities. NATO is also under the EU,
Banker influence. get out of Russia's backyard and protect our backyard's ,Russia is not an
enemy, they are fighting the same EU agenda garbage that GEORGE SOROS FUNDS.OF COURSE WHILE
THIS IS HAPPENING the same Soros, EU controlled UN is pushing the invasion on our southern
border.
We are waiting for the year 2024! I am sure that it will be the little-known person from
Putin's environment. Some counselor. I would very much like to see Surkov as head of Russia.
Surkov is also Putin's adviser. And it is a kind of Minister for Donbass, South Ossetia and
Abkhazia. This is the only person in the country who drank and did not agree with Putin. He
does not threaten to become a photocopy of Putin. Very cool dude! Very! Strong personality!
No less clever than Putin. Something even cooler. If he becomes President then Western whores
will only have to pray! :)
US Coup Government morale is quite low, and I imagine it's a similar situation in Ukraine.
After Obama... You could imagine, though there is so much to cheer about, that everyone could
agree on, like George Washington. A few handsome George (or Martha) Washingtons, a handful
even, and I don't think US morale could take it, after they've really gone so far from their
own basic ideology.
Poor Ukrainians! They live under Dictatorship, a " state " completely subjected to
american and NATO agenda... And of course, too ignorant to understand that their (Western
puppet) government is playing like a kid with a videogame and will do everything possible and
impossible to go in War against Russia " wishing " big casualties to be present on worldwide
news. I really hope that men (If they have some) will wake-up soon and overthrow this
illegitimate government placed by the West after a coup d'état if remembered.
Unfortunately we all know that War exists because some honorable people, government, medias
and NGO wants it. To Russians: Be more than ready because West need and want not just a War
but a TOTAL ANNIHILATION of the Christian Russia.
Пака😉
I dont know how the ucranian people like this obbey dog of the USA. Poroshenko is a
criminal, nothing more, and Great Putin explain clearly which are the leit motiv of his
coward actuation. The angry thing of all this, is the blind support of the european vassals
follows instructions from Washington to the criminal actions of this psicotic criminal
Poroshenko. Here in Guatemala. in radio France they say that " Rusia atacked the ships of
Ucrania" but without any explication about the fact that ucranian ships traspased the
territorial waters of Rusia...and that is only a partialized new to demonize Rusia even more
on the brains of the lobotomized citizens of europe, thas is the reason to introduce the
article # 13 in its laws...Grande RUSIA, armate hasta los dientes que estos psicoticos
otaneros y su jefe hampon terrorista no dejaran de fastidiarte...
"... "The authorities in Kiev are selling anti-Russian sentiment with quite a success today. They have nothing else to do," ..."
"... If they demand babies for breakfast, they would probably be served babies. They'd say: 'Why not, they are hungry, what is to be done about it?' This is such a shortsighted policy and it cannot have a good outcome. It makes the Ukrainian leadership complacent, gives them no incentive to do normal political work in their country or pursue a normal economic policy. ..."
"The authorities in Kiev are selling anti-Russian sentiment with quite a success today.
They have nothing else to do," Putin said during a business forum in Moscow. The Russian
president said it seemed like Kiev could get away with anything as far as foreign nations
supporting Ukraine's anti-Russian stance were concerned.
If they demand babies for breakfast, they would probably be served babies. They'd say:
'Why not, they are hungry, what is to be done about it?' This is such a shortsighted policy
and it cannot have a good outcome. It makes the Ukrainian leadership complacent, gives them
no incentive to do normal political work in their country or pursue a normal economic
policy.
Putin said the incident, which ended in Russia's seizure of three Ukrainian ships and Kiev
imposing a partial martial law in the country, was a "dirty game" by Poroshenko, who
needs to suppress his political opponents ahead of the March presidential election. He assured
that the Ukrainian side was responsible for the escalation of tensions, since the incident was
a deliberate and planned provocation by the Ukrainian Navy.
The Russian leader also defended the border guards, who stopped the Ukrainian ships from
passing through the Kerch Strait, saying it was their duty as sworn service members to do so
and that if they failed they could face a tribunal for defying an order.
"... Predictably, Western media has been complaining again about "Russian aggression", a gift that keeps on giving. Or blaming Russia for its over-reaction, overlooking the fact that Ukraine's incursion was with military vessels, not fishing boats. Russian resolve was quite visible, as powerful Ka-52 "Alligator" assault helicopters were promptly on the scene. ..."
"... Still, Kiev – "encouraged" by Washington – insists on militarizing the Sea of Azov. Misinformed American hawks emerging from the US Army War College even advocate that NATO should enter the Sea of Azov – a provocative act as far as Moscow is concerned. The Atlantic Council , which is essentially a mouthpiece of the powerful US weapons industry, is also pro-militarization. ..."
"... Rostislav Ischchenko , arguably the sharpest observer of Russia-Ukraine relations, in a piece written before the Kerch incident, said: "Ukraine itself recognized the right of Russia to introduce restrictions on the passage of ships and vessels through the Kerch Strait, having obeyed these rules in the summer." ..."
"... Thus a Kerch Strait incident designed as a cheap provocation, bearing all the hallmarks of a US think-tank ploy, is automatically interpreted as "Russian aggression", regardless of the facts. Indeed, any such tactics are good when it comes to derailing the Trump-Putin meeting at the G20 in Buenos Aires this coming weekend. ..."
"... Poroshenko's approval rate barely touches 8% . His chances of being re-elected, assuming polls are credible, are virtually zero. ..."
"... But the US would lose no sleep if they had to throw Poroshenko under the (Soviet) bus ..."
"... Poroshenko, wallowing in despair, may still ratchet up provocations. But the best he can aim at is NATO attempting to modernize the collapsing Ukrainian navy – an endeavor that would last years, with no guarantee of success. ..."
"... Feel sorry for the Ukrainians being used as tools. Before Obama-Hillary-and Pedo Biden overthrew the Democratically elected leader, people were just doing their normal stuff. Now they hide in bomb shelters and search for food at night. ..."
"... But vainglorious folks are not paying attention, and this is dangerous especially for Europe, and the pretenders in the Middle East, if it goes down, they too will go down, it's that simple and why? Because of military and security imperatives. Russia will take down, and out, any US or European ally in the M.E. lest, they open themselves up to flanking maneuvers. ..."
"... Putin already intimated of the current Russian mindset thus: "If you like, let's all go explain ourselves to God!". Do the neocons feel confident of cogent explanation to God, or do they even wish to come before him? I doubt it, and very much so, seeing as their hands are stained with the blood of innocents, and their hearts,plot evil continuously. ..."
"... And this my friends, viscerally demonstrates the wisdom of the founding fathers, especially Washington, who warned of "entangling alliances", buttressed a few generations later, by John Q. Adams, who re-advised "Go not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy". Pay attention folks, pay attention to the architects of the Republic, who knew what they were building, better than the "war loving battle dodging" chickenhawks who love to sip exotic drinks, while instructing others to kill for their depraved egos. ..."
"... NATO delenda est!... ..."
"... Poroshenko & Allies have a team of experts who spend 24/7 searching for the next provocation. Reminds me of May on this Brexit fiasco. ..."
"... This US coup of the Ukraine is turning out to be more hassle than its worth, a bankrupt corrupt country, installing Neo Nazi's as the first government was a big mistake, it could have been handled with more finesse, instead it was like a bull in a China shop. ..."
"... Poroshenko decided to not let a good crisis go to waste. ..."
"... Geopolitics and realpolitik, bitches. So much happening in the gas domain in Eastern Europe. Nordstream, Turkish Stream, BP stream, US LNG facilities in Greece, Poland and Germany, Russia supplying LNG to Germany, Cyprus-Greece-Israel drilling in the East Med, Turkey drilling in Cyprus EEZ. In the meanwhile I see gas infrastructure being build allover Eastern Europe, connecting houses to the grid. Gas heating and energy production is coming to Eastern Europe in addition to supplying Western Europe. The stakes are enormous and that what this is all about and that is why we can see more of this. ..."
"... Most of the Ukraine people hate Poroshenko and he knows he can't win re-election. He threatens Trump with dirt on Manafort, and demands Trump start a war. Or what? is the left in the US going to impeach Trump with the supposed Poroshenko dirt on Manafort? ..."
"... He was installed by Soros during the "Purple Color Revolution" (agent provocateurs with tiki torches getting violent to force a coup against the prior sitting President, a tactic attempted in Charlottesville only a couple years later) ..."
"... " Poroshenko's approval rate barely touches 8% . His chances of being re-elected, assuming polls are credible, are virtually zero. Little wonder he used the Kerch to declare martial law, effective this Wednesday, lasting for 30 days and bound to be extended. Poroshenko will be able to control the media and increase his chances of rigging the election. ..."
The West is complaining about Russian 'aggression' but the incident looks more like a cheap ploy by a desperate Ukrainian president
and US conservatives keen to undermine Trump's next pow-wow with Putin...
When the Ukrainian navy sent a tugboat and two small gunboats on Sunday to force their way through the Kerch Strait into the Sea
of Azov, it knew in advance the Russian response would be swift and merciless.
After all, Kiev was entering waters claimed by Russia with military vessels without clarifying their intent.
The intent, though, was clear; to raise the stakes in the militarization of the Sea of Azov.
The Kerch Strait connects the Sea of Azov with the Black Sea. To reach Mariupol, a key city in the Sea of Azov very close to the
dangerous dividing line between Ukraine's army and the pro-Russian militias in Donbass, the Ukrainian navy needs to go through the
Kerch.
Yet since Russia retook control of Crimea via a 2014 referendum, the waters around Kerch are de facto Russian territorial waters.
Kiev announced this past summer it would build a naval base in the Sea of Azov by the end of 2018. That's an absolute red line
for Moscow. Kiev may have to trade access to Mariupol, which, incidentally, also trades closely with the People's Republic of Donetsk.
But forget about military access.
And most of all, forget about supplying a Ukrainian military fleet in the port of Berdyansk capable of sabotaging the immensely
successful, Russian-built Crimean bridge .
Predictably, Western media has been complaining again about "Russian aggression", a gift that keeps on giving. Or blaming
Russia for its over-reaction, overlooking the fact that Ukraine's incursion was with military vessels, not fishing boats. Russian
resolve was quite visible, as powerful Ka-52 "Alligator" assault helicopters were promptly on the scene.
Washington and Brussels uncritically bought Kiev's "Russian aggression" hysteria, as well as the UN Security Council, which, instead
of focusing on the facts in the Kerch Strait incident, preferring to accuse Moscow once again of annexing Crimea in 2014.
The key point, overlooked by the UNSC, is that the Kerch incident configures Kiev's flagrant violation of articles 7, 19 and 21
of the UN Convention on the
Law of the Sea .
I happened to be right in the middle of deep research in Istanbul over the geopolitics of the Black Sea when the Kerch incident
happened.
For the moment, it's crucial to stress what top Russian analysts have been pointing out in detail. My interlocutors in Istanbul
may disagree, but for all practical purposes, the Kerch Strait, the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea, in military terms, are de facto
Russian lakes.
At best, the Black Sea as a whole might evolve into a Russia-Turkey condominium, assuming President Erdogan plays his cards right.
Everyone else is as relevant, militarily, as a bunch of sardines.
Russia is able to handle anything – naval or aerial – intruding in the Kerch Strait, the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea in a matter
ranging from seconds to just a few minutes. Every vessel moving in every corner of the Black Sea is tracked 24/7. Moscow knows it.
Kiev knows it. NATO knows it. And crucially, the Pentagon knows it.
Still, Kiev – "encouraged" by Washington – insists on militarizing the Sea of Azov. Misinformed
American hawks emerging
from the US Army War College even advocate that NATO should enter the Sea of Azov – a provocative act as far as Moscow is concerned.
The Atlantic
Council , which is essentially a mouthpiece of the powerful US weapons industry, is also pro-militarization.
Any attempt to alter the current, already wobbly status quo could lead Moscow to install a naval blockade in a flash and see the
annexation of Mariupol to the People's Republic of Donetsk, to which it is industrially linked anyway.
This would be regarded by the Kremlin as a move of last resort. Moscow certainly does not want it. Yet it's wise not to provoke
the Bear.
Cheap provocation
Rostislav
Ischchenko , arguably the sharpest observer of Russia-Ukraine relations, in a piece written before the Kerch incident, said:
"Ukraine itself recognized the right of Russia to introduce restrictions on the passage of ships and vessels through the Kerch Strait,
having obeyed these rules in the summer."
Yet, after the US Deep State's massive investment even before the protests on the Maidan in Kiev in 2014 that wrested Ukraine
away from Russian influence a possible entente cordiale between the Trump administration and the Kremlin, with Russia in control
of Crimea and a pro-Russian Donbass, could only be seen as a red line for the Americans.
Thus a Kerch Strait incident designed as a cheap provocation, bearing all the hallmarks of a US think-tank ploy, is automatically
interpreted as "Russian aggression", regardless of the facts. Indeed, any such tactics are good when it comes to derailing the
Trump-Putin
meeting at the G20 in Buenos Aires this coming weekend.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine, chaos is the norm . President Petro Poroshenko is bleeding. The hryvnia is a hopeless currency. Kiev's
borrowing costs are at their highest level since a bond sale in 2018. This failed state has been under IMF "reform" since 2015 –
with no end in sight.
Poroshenko's approval rate barely touches 8% . His chances of being re-elected, assuming polls are credible, are virtually zero.
Little wonder he used the Kerch to declare martial law, effective this Wednesday, lasting for 30 days and bound to be extended. Poroshenko
will be able to control the media and increase his chances of rigging the election.
But the US would lose no sleep if they had to throw Poroshenko under the (Soviet) bus. Ukrainians will not die for his survival.
One of the captains at the Kerch incident surrendered his boat voluntarily to the Russians. When Russian Su-25s and Ka-52s started
to patrol the skies over the Kerch Strait, Ukrainian reinforcements instantly fled.
Poroshenko, wallowing in despair, may still ratchet up provocations. But the best he can aim at is NATO attempting to modernize
the collapsing Ukrainian navy – an endeavor that would last years, with no guarantee of success.
For the moment, forget all the rhetoric, and any suggestion of a NATO incursion into the Black Sea. Call it the calm before the
inevitable future storm
Feel sorry for the Ukrainians being used as tools. Before Obama-Hillary-and Pedo Biden overthrew the Democratically elected leader, people were just doing their normal stuff. Now they hide in bomb shelters and search for food at night.
The Bear has set the Trap, let NATO or whoever walk into it, but do so if they must, with the knowledge that it's a one way
ticket to hell. The Russians have been warning for years now, that one day, they'll have had enough and then..
But vainglorious folks are not paying attention, and this is dangerous especially for Europe, and the pretenders in the Middle
East, if it goes down, they too will go down, it's that simple and why? Because of military and security imperatives. Russia will
take down, and out, any US or European ally in the M.E. lest, they open themselves up to flanking maneuvers.
So someone, in this case, Europe, better tell, or force Poroshenko to tone it down, the Russians are not kidding around, this
is not a game, this is existential serious! Ukraine will go down, along with Poland, and the Baltics, if Russia feels, in any
way, shape, or manner, provoked beyond reason. Note the word "feels", some may play games, thinking it's just a game, Russia is
NOT playing games, not at all, not one bit.
Putin already intimated of the current Russian mindset thus: "If you like, let's all go explain ourselves to God!". Do the neocons feel confident of cogent explanation to God, or do they
even wish to come before him? I doubt it, and very much so, seeing as their hands are stained with the blood of innocents, and
their hearts,plot evil continuously.
Minsk was the best the Russians are willing to offer, from here on, the offer reduces exponentially, with every provocation
until there's no offer, just RAW discipline!
And this my friends, viscerally demonstrates the wisdom of the founding fathers, especially Washington, who warned of "entangling
alliances", buttressed a few generations later, by John Q. Adams, who re-advised "Go not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy".
Pay attention folks, pay attention to the architects of the Republic, who knew what they were building, better than the "war loving
battle dodging" chickenhawks who love to sip exotic drinks, while instructing others to kill for their depraved egos.
The biggest victims in all their failed adventures, are the US troops, folks who are deployed to fight wars which does nothing
to secure the Republic, but instead weakens the Republic, deprives the military of honor, capable recruits, and the economy, of
treasure, vigor, and vitality.
Poroshenko & Allies have a team of experts who spend 24/7 searching for the next provocation. Reminds me of May on this Brexit
fiasco.
When you're up ****-creek, Kerch, in this instance, you clutch at straws as the boat sinks.
With regard to NATO, they can't be involved as they're not imbeciles. Russia has provided the s300/Other upgraded Missile Defense
Systems to Syria, effectively nullifying Israeli's illegal incursions via Lebanon airspace, so what protections will Putin have
in place for one of his most strategic jurisdictions in his country? Rhetorical.
This US coup of the Ukraine is turning out to be more hassle than its worth, a bankrupt corrupt country, installing Neo Nazi's
as the first government was a big mistake, it could have been handled with more finesse, instead it was like a bull in a China
shop.
On the Crimea, let us all remember the following :
95% of Crimean's voted yes to joining Russia a result that western agencies, media etc have accepted as correct, This makes
it and the waters surrounding it Russian, I suspect the US would have a similar reaction if a couple of Russian gun boats cruised
unannounced into a US port and started doing donuts.
****** porkoshenko wont last until spring. ukraine is not a chocolate factory. a country too big for a chess piece. the best
move for trump is to stay out or invite willy wonka to pay a visit to us embassy and chop him off lol
Poroshenko decided to not let a good crisis go to waste.
Geopolitics and realpolitik, bitches. So much happening in the gas domain in Eastern Europe. Nordstream, Turkish Stream, BP
stream, US LNG facilities in Greece, Poland and Germany, Russia supplying LNG to Germany, Cyprus-Greece-Israel drilling in the
East Med, Turkey drilling in Cyprus EEZ. In the meanwhile I see gas infrastructure being build allover Eastern Europe, connecting
houses to the grid. Gas heating and energy production is coming to Eastern Europe in addition to supplying Western Europe. The
stakes are enormous and that what this is all about and that is why we can see more of this.
The cheap shot at Trump at the same time demanding action from Trump was Poroshenko's threat the Ukraine has dirt on Manafort.
How low can Poroshenko go?
Most of the Ukraine people hate Poroshenko and he knows he can't win re-election. He threatens Trump with dirt on Manafort,
and demands Trump start a war. Or what? is the left in the US going to impeach Trump with the supposed Poroshenko dirt on Manafort?
But asked if the Ukraine has any evidence that Manafort was getting paid directly by the Kremlin, Poroshenko said, "I am not
personally connected with the process.""
Not just undermine Trump/Putin meetings, but the big picture, Ukrainian "President" declaring martial law to suspend the election
he would no doubt lose.
He was installed by Soros during the "Purple Color Revolution" (agent provocateurs with tiki torches getting violent to force
a coup against the prior sitting President, a tactic attempted in Charlottesville only a couple years later)
" Poroshenko's approval rate barely touches 8% . His chances of being re-elected, assuming polls are credible, are virtually
zero. Little wonder he used the Kerch to declare martial law, effective this Wednesday, lasting for 30 days and bound to be extended.
Poroshenko will be able to control the media and increase his chances of rigging the election.
"... Legally speaking I'm not quite sure, because there are a number of protocols that are at play here. On top of everything is the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, and the designation of territorial waters and shelfs, economic zones and so forth. ..."
"... And declaring martial law, what the heck does that have to do with naval affairs? Many suspect that he's reading his polls and knowing that he's in trouble, political trouble, and so he's trying to start something that will help his political chances. ..."
"... And since NATO and the European Union and the United States have been rather in the front of the foxhole claiming that Ukraine is right in many of these disputes, then you've got the recipe for real problem. You've got NATO's ships, U.S. ships, other ships that might challenge Russia in these waters. ..."
"... NATO, so close to Russia's borders–I mean, incorporating former Warsaw Pact members into NATO. Putin's reactions in that regard are perfectly understandable. I'm not saying that the United States and NATO shouldn't take measures to defend themselves. But why does that include taking over for alliance purposes, now? Commercial purposes, the EU, the common market, so forth and so on, that's another deal. But taking them over for alliance purposes–we forget. It's a political alliance, surely. But it's also a military alliance, and that's the way Moscow has to look at it. ..."
"... So their military exercises since about 2013 have been postulated on a NATO invasion of the near abroad, and even a NATO invasion of Russia proper. So this is the way they do their military exercises. Clearly they're not doing that because they think spending all that money on that preposterous possible situation is just that: preposterous. They think it's a probability, or at least a possibility. ..."
"... And to fight over Ukraine–you remember the old expression "Who would die for Danzig?" I keep asking myself, if Americans really were asked to fulfill Article 5 of the NATO treaty for a place like Tbilisi, or even a place like Riga, or any of those countries we've now expanded NATO into or proposed expanding NATO into, like Ukraine, what would Americans say when they were told that full conscription was in process, full mobilization was in process, war taxes are going to be levied, and we're going to war for a city you can't even pronounce and couldn't find on a map? That's what we're talking about. And oh, by the way, Russia is generally speaking cheek and jowl with that city, whereas we're ten thousand miles away. ..."
"... Yaas, let us continue with the fear-uncertainty-doubt support of the Neocon Narrative and whatever Great Game BS the CIA and US Global Network-Centric Battlespace Management have up their dirty sleeves for that part of the world. On the way to Full Spectrum Dominance, of course. Because that is the Manifest Destiny of We The People, new? ..."
"... Excuse me, but what is a US military training range doing in Ukraine? How would US like it if a Russian range were established in Sonora or Coahuila? And if a tourist notices it, don't you think Russians are painfully aware of the situation? But they should just accept it, as US/Nato creep ever closer to the Russian border. The amount of hypocrisy seems boundless ..."
"... I'm waiting for NSA Bolton or SecState Pompeo to claim that Poroshenko made a miscalculation. Isn't that approximately what former SecState Condoleezza Rice said about Saakashvili's shelling of Russian peace keeping troops in South Ossetia, Georgia? So if Poroshenko's aim was internal politics, it was one big belly-flop. ..."
"... Poroshenko got his martial law, but for only 30 days. It will not cover Ukraine entirely, but only regions subject to "Russian aggression," including Vinnytsia, Luhansk, Mykolayiv, Odesa, Sumy, Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Kherson, Sea of Azov. Well, just about any region that voted for former President Viktor Yanukovych. ..."
"... Right, most of those regions were bases of support for the pro-Moscow Party of Regions. This is simply broadcasting an intention to commit election fraud. The declaration of martial law is a means to an end. ..."
"... On the other hand, it appears that some of the crew on the Ukrainian vessels were from Ukrainian secret service, one wonders why. ..."
"... There have been op-ed pieces in major US media advocating blowing the bridge up. Russia has to take that seriously. ..."
"... Who needs a mere op-ed when you have the Atlantic Council? http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russia-s-provocations-in-the-sea-of-azov-what-should-be-done ..."
"... If Mexico formed an alliance with Russia, how would the US respond? (Cuban missile crisis?) From the point of view of traditional great power politics, it's that simple. Monroe Doctrine and all that. Russia has been fighting the West in this area from at least 1610. We're poking around their neighborhood and no great power can tolerate such arrogance. ..."
GREG WILPERT: The Ukraine is saying that Russia has no reason to hold
its ships, and Russia is accusing the Ukraine of intentionally creating a provocation in order
to draw NATO from what we know of what happened. Who seems to be in the more solid position
here, legally speaking?
LARRY WILKERSON:Legally speaking I'm not quite sure, because there are a number of
protocols that are at play here. On top of everything is the UN Convention on the Law of the
Sea, and the designation of territorial waters and shelfs, economic zones and so forth. And the
right, even though those things might intersect, to pass through what are called International
Straits or international waters, no matter how narrow they may be. Then you've also got,
underneath that, various protocols and agreements that have been made. In this case, I think
there's one between Russia and Ukraine. There are probably other agreements that impact on the
Black Sea, which, as you know, the strait they were trying to pass through is to the north of,
or the north side of.
So there are all kinds of international agreements and bilateral agreements about passage
through this area. The legal aspects of it really, I think, would boil down to, in many
respects, who has Crimea? Ukraine still claims Crimea. Russia now claims Crimea. And if they
claim Crimea, then their territorial water, even with unclassed–with respect to
unclassed, its definition of straights and so forth–then that territorial water, that is
territorial water, even under [unclass], is Russian. If it's Ukranian, it's Ukrainian. The
Russians are claiming it's Russian and Ukrainian ships violated it. Ukrainians, I guess, are
complaining or asserting the fact that they think it's still Ukrainian, and so they didn't
violate anything.
But all of that, the legal aspects of it, really boil down–as Mao Zedong said,
international law comes out the barrel of a gun. Who has the biggest gun? And in this case,
Russia has the biggest gun. It's also complicated by the fact that Poroshenko has elections
coming up, I think, in March. And declaring martial law, what the heck does that have to do
with naval affairs? Many suspect that he's reading his polls and knowing that he's in trouble,
political trouble, and so he's trying to start something that will help his political
chances.
So you have so many different variables here that it's hard to say who's right and who's
wrong, except to say that you have to determine whether Russia is right about Ukraine, and
ultimately about Crimea, or whether Ukraine is right about Ukraine. And since NATO and the
European Union and the United States have been rather in the front of the foxhole claiming that
Ukraine is right in many of these disputes, then you've got the recipe for real problem. You've
got NATO's ships, U.S. ships, other ships that might challenge Russia in these waters. And
there again, though, power comes out of the barrel of a gun. Russia has the advantage because
it's operating on interior lines from this area, very close to its own homeland, close to its
ports in Crimea. And the United States or NATO would be operating, in the case of NATO, at
quite a distance from the United States, quite a distance from its home water.
So this is just another incident in Putin's ability to poke his fingers in the eyes of NATO,
and the United States in particular, since the United States and NATO started encroaching on
his near abroad.
GREG WILPERT: Right. Actually, that's something I was going to ask as well, is the
extent to which this might be also driven by domestic politics within Russia. Clearly
something's happening within the Ukraine in terms of the elections and the fact that, as you
mentioned, that Poroshenko is behind in the polls. But Putin's own popularity might be being
impacted right now due to a declining economic situation. So I'm just wondering, what role do
you think that those domestic factors within Russia might be at play, that this might be a way
for him to recuperate some of his own popularity?
LARRY WILKERSON: Well, no question about it. We say domestic politics drives most of
Donald Trump's decision making. And I think that's a correct interpretation. It also has an
impact on people like Poroshenko and Putin. And the plunge in oil prices, my goodness. I looked
at a sign this morning, it was $2.19. I never thought I'd see that price again here in
Williamsburg. The plunge in oil prices, the benchmarks, has probably hurt Russia pretty badly.
They are, as one person said to me recently, a gas station with a capital in Moscow. So Putin,
if he's sinking in the polls, this would be something for him to do that has worked for him in
the past. Stick your fingers in Ukraine, which by extension is sticking your fingers in the
U.S.'s eyes, and you get a bump in the polls. I wouldn't put it past him at all.
GREG WILPERT: Now, in 2014, Russia held a referendum in Crimea and ended up annexing
the peninsula after it said that 97 percent of the population voted to join Russia. Now,
looking at the Kerch Strait between Crimea and Russia, which Ukraine needs in order to access
its southeastern coast from the Black Sea, wasn't such a crisis inevitable sooner or later?
LARRY WILKERSON: Oh, it was. And we have had a number of incidents where a Russian
patrol craft, FSB or otherwise, Navy, had come out and challenged Ukrainian ships in accordance
with, they said, the agreement that they saw. And they actually, as I understand it, boarded
some of these ships and searched them, and caused them commercial damage, if you will, because
they held them up so long; didn't let them get under way for a long period of time. So this is,
this has been working up to this more dramatic confrontation that we have now, I think, for
some time. And it's the tit for tat game that Putin is playing with Kiev, and in essence that
NATO, the EU, and the United States are playing with Moscow. Ukraine is Ukraine, and it is
going to be a member of NATO and a member of the EU. And Moscow says over, over our prostrate
body will the whole country of Ukraine–and we've taken Crimea, thank you very much, and
have invested with little green men and other things in much of Eastern Ukraine. So over my
prostate body will that happen.
And Putin has, as I said, the interior lines. It's much easier for him to operate than it is
for NATO or the United States to operate. And as long as that situation exists he's going to
continue to test this. He's not the equal of us in combination, but he is in a position to test
us all the time, and he's become brilliant at it. He goes into a fissure here, a fissure there,
a crack here, a crack there. And if he's challenged resolutely, he just kind of holds what he's
got or he backs up a little bit. But if he finds more mobility he widens it, deepens it, and
exploits it; Syria being a perfect example. And Syria being almost to the point where it's
exterior lines for him.
LARRY WILKERSON: So I have to admire the guy for the brilliance with which he does
this, and then, as you said, he turns it into domestic political gain.
GREG WILPERT: But now turning, actually, to the West, the conflict between
pro-Russian separatists and pro-European government in the Ukraine has been all about an
international conflict already, with constant intervention from NATO, as well as from Russia.
Now, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg issued a declaration, actually, where he declared,
quote, full support for Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty. However, the Ukraine
is not yet part of NATO, and thus there's no obligation to defend the Ukraine. But
Stoltenberg's statement makes it sound like NATO would do just that, defend the Ukraine should
a conflict escalate. Now, what do you think? Is that a wise position for the West to take,
considering the potential for escalation and outright war?
LARRY WILKERSON: Well, I don't think it's been a wise position for the West,
quote-unquote, to take, the United States leading the way. But it's pushed itself and its
alliance, NATO, so close to Russia's borders–I mean, incorporating former Warsaw Pact
members into NATO. Putin's reactions in that regard are perfectly understandable. I'm not
saying that the United States and NATO shouldn't take measures to defend themselves. But why
does that include taking over for alliance purposes, now? Commercial purposes, the EU, the
common market, so forth and so on, that's another deal. But taking them over for alliance
purposes–we forget. It's a political alliance, surely. But it's also a military alliance,
and that's the way Moscow has to look at it.
So their military exercises since about 2013 have been postulated on a NATO invasion of the
near abroad, and even a NATO invasion of Russia proper. So this is the way they do their
military exercises. Clearly they're not doing that because they think spending all that money
on that preposterous possible situation is just that: preposterous. They think it's a
probability, or at least a possibility.
So we're giving them the incentive to do this. And to fight over Ukraine–you remember
the old expression "Who would die for Danzig?" I keep asking myself, if Americans really were
asked to fulfill Article 5 of the NATO treaty for a place like Tbilisi, or even a place like
Riga, or any of those countries we've now expanded NATO into or proposed expanding NATO into,
like Ukraine, what would Americans say when they were told that full conscription was in
process, full mobilization was in process, war taxes are going to be levied, and we're going to
war for a city you can't even pronounce and couldn't find on a map? That's what we're talking
about. And oh, by the way, Russia is generally speaking cheek and jowl with that city, whereas
we're ten thousand miles away.
GREG WILPERT: All right. Well, we're going to leave it there for now. I was speaking
to Larry Wilkerson, Distinguished Professor at the College of William and Mary. Thanks again,
Larry, for having joined us today.
LARRY WILKERSON: Thanks for having me on.
GREG WILPERT: And thank you for joining The Real News Network. If you like Real News
Network stories such as this one, please keep in mind that we've started our winter fundraiser
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The US has had the "Monroe Doctrine" for two centuries now. I think Russia views Ukraine
as within its own "Monroe Doctrine" zone.
While, I would not wish the Russian government on anybody I know, the same can be said for
many CIA-backed governments over the past 65 years, including many in Central America where
the current migrant caravan is coming from. The Ukrainian government is not a bed of roses
either.
This is a pretty sticky situation with a lot of pride on the Russian side that is in
play.
Well, I like Larry Wilkerson generally, but shouldn't we always be reminding ourselves of
the context of Western aggression in which the Ukrainian/Russian drama is playing out? That
would be including the broken promise to refuse NATO membership to former Warsaw Pact
countries if Russia agreed to accept German reunification, the American-sponsored regime
change coup in Kiev of Feb. 'f4, and the ethnic cleansing that followed in Eastern Ukraine at
the hands of literal Ukrainian Neo-Nazis who honor Stepan Bandera?
Bandera wasn't a nazi per se. Bandera was a fanatical Ukrainian nationalist, who was happy
to ally with anyone to fight Soviet Russia (and Poles). He was even for a time in a Nazi
concentration camp with the intention to be liquidated. UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army), which
emerged from Bandera-led Organization of Ukrainian Nationalist, were Ukrainian nationalistic
partisans, who fought Germans (once it was clear that they would not creat a Ukrainian state)
and Soviets alike (and Poles).
He was a convenient person for Soviet Russia to paint as a Nazi, because otherwise they
would have to acknowledge strong nationalistic feelings in Ukraine, which would imply that it
wasn't happy to be part of the Soviet Union. Which just wasn't on. It was supposed to be one
happy family.
Before commenting on Ukraine, I recommend one studies the history of it, from original
Kiev Russ via Polish-Lithuanian Duchy and subsequent partitions, to what was happening there
in 1930 (although reading on the Soviet induced famine really requries guts – but its
crucial in understanding of the ethnic composition of the current Eastern Ukraine), WW2 and
immediately post WW2.
Most people have an idea of the problems Balkans suffer as great powers rolled this and
that way, but Ukraine has not dissimilar unhappy history. Which does not excuse it –
but may stop people talking total nonsense and buying propaganda as truth.
Although Bandera and his followers would later try to paint the alliance with the Third
Reich as no more than "tactical," an attempt to pit one totalitarian state against another,
it was in fact deep-rooted and ideological. Bandera envisioned the Ukraine as a classic
one-party state with himself in the role of führer, or providnyk, and expected that a
new Ukraine would take its place under the Nazi umbrella, much as Jozef Tiso's new fascist
regime had in Slovakia or Ante Pavelić's in Croatia.
In some sense, you're right about his not being a nazi. He was, in fact, far worse than
German nazis, who put him under a house arrest. "Bandera remains a highly controversial
figure today in Ukraine, with some hailing him as a liberator who fought both the Soviets and
the Nazis, while trying to establish an independent Ukraine, while others consider him to be
a Nazi collaborator and a war criminal, who was, together with his followers, largely
responsible for the Volhynian genocide and partially for the Holocaust in Ukraine." And that
is just Wikipedia.
When your followers commit atrocities that make even German nazis blush – what exactly
are you?
Good to recommend studying history! And when one does, one learns that there was no such
thing as Ukraine(a), until Lenin and Stalin spliced it together from assorted parts of the
czarist empire: the western part (which was under Poland/Litva, Habsburgs, and taken over
Poland again); the centre (ancient Kievskaja Rus); and the eastern part (which was Russian
Novorosija). They were also, in part, concerned about balancing the ratio of workers and
peasants on this newly formed territory. U. had its own seat at the UN – a ploy by
those pesky Russkies to increase the strength of the socialist bloc.
Under the USSR, U. was perhaps the most prosperous republic, highly developed and productive.
How far it has fallen since 1991 is worse than a Greek tragedy.
Unmentioned are Nordstream, Nordstream II, Southstream (this year, 2018,Bulgaria proposed
restarting the Southstream construction project) and Turkish Stream. Southstream maps through
Ukraine. Turkish Stream maps through Turkey and the Black Sea & Azov Sea.
adding: the Southstream project is now mapped to go through Bulgaria, immediately north of
Ukraine, for obvious reasons. Both routes require crossing the Black Sea.
(tin foil hat time:
a shooting war in the Black Sea might shut gas pipeline projects down.
a shooting war in the Black Sea/Balkans will play hell with the Eurozone and it's reliance
on Russian gas for winter heating at a reasonable price and reliable delivery.
a shooting war in the Black Sea/Balkans will play hell with the Eurozone's cohesion and
with NATO's cohesion, as if there aren't already enough problems with the Eurozone's
cohesion.
NATO alliance to thwart Russian military aggression is one thing; NATO alliance to force
purchase of US products (gas, in this case) to the detriment of European NATO members is
something else.
Purely anecdotal,
Last week a Ukrainian waitress who had been just back to visit family told me that she could
not believe the amount of US military in Ukraine. She said that people felt that "something
was going to happen". Sorry I couldn't get more details.
Could be pretty subjective if her parents lived next to one of the training ranges.
I wonder if this is in the hundreds or thousands.
For example, the "Clear Sky" depicted as "huge" happened earlier this month.
"Clear Sky brought together nearly 1,000 soldiers and airmen from nine partner nations,
including Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania and the United
Kingdom."
Imagine a Russian "combat training post" of brigade size in, say, Quebec, maybe teaching
the separatists there the fine points of maneuver-and-fire and hand to hand combat and how to
conduct war in an urban area and how to use the weapons the goddam Rooskies would be shipping
to them, and spreading the Gospel of Putinism amongst the population there to assist said
Separatists to achieve their goal of, you know, separation. Not the best analogy, of course,
given the Ukraine-Russia geography and the presence of "NATO" forces of all kinds on as much
of the periphery of Russia as or War Leaders and Sneaky Petes have been able to manage, but
might be worth a thought.
Yaas, let us continue with the fear-uncertainty-doubt support of the Neocon Narrative and
whatever Great Game BS the CIA and US Global Network-Centric Battlespace Management have up
their dirty sleeves for that part of the world. On the way to Full Spectrum Dominance, of
course. Because that is the Manifest Destiny of We The People, new?
Hey, business as usual, and it's killing not only retail quantities of people in many
lands, but the whole living part of the planet -- albeit at a pace that the mopes can hardly
notice, among all the other claims on their attention and lives. Because that's what the
people who make and sell and deploy and create "doctrines" for the use of and know how to run
a regime change know how to do, right?
Excuse me, but what is a US military training range doing in Ukraine? How would US like it
if a Russian range were established in Sonora or Coahuila? And if a tourist notices it, don't
you think Russians are painfully aware of the situation? But they should just accept it, as
US/Nato creep ever closer to the Russian border. The amount of hypocrisy seems boundless
Wilkerson is often correct, but all those comments about Putin poking the the eye of the US
if just plain gibberish. The Russians did not start this one.
For the past two months, Eastern European media have been reporting on large US Army troop
movements through their countries heading to Ukraine. Trains after trains full of tanks and
other equipment.
Poroshenko got his martial law, but for only 30 days. It will not cover Ukraine entirely,
but only regions subject to "Russian aggression," including Vinnytsia, Luhansk, Mykolayiv,
Odesa, Sumy, Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Kherson, Sea of Azov. Well, just about any region that voted
for former President Viktor Yanukovych.
The Lviv region certainly isn't covered under martial law. Even though they're rabid
Russophobes, I suspect that the nationalist Svoboda Party and the white supremacist Right
Sektor would've put on their paranoid tin-foil-hats and figured that Poroshenko was going to
use martial law to go after them. If Poroshenko had gotten what he wanted then there might
have been an internal insurrection and possibly Poroshenko hanging from a lamp post (or on
the lam with his frenemy, Mikheil Saakashvili, former president of Georgia & former
governor of Odesa region).
I'm waiting for NSA Bolton or SecState Pompeo to claim that Poroshenko made a
miscalculation. Isn't that approximately what former SecState Condoleezza Rice said about
Saakashvili's shelling of Russian peace keeping troops in South Ossetia, Georgia? So if Poroshenko's aim was internal politics, it was one big belly-flop.
Poroshenko got his martial law, but for only 30 days. It will not cover Ukraine
entirely, but only regions subject to "Russian aggression," including Vinnytsia, Luhansk,
Mykolayiv, Odesa, Sumy, Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Kherson, Sea of Azov. Well, just about any
region that voted for former President Viktor Yanukovych.
Right, most of those regions were bases of support for the pro-Moscow Party of Regions.
This is simply broadcasting an intention to commit election fraud. The declaration of martial
law is a means to an end.
It kinda seems like a dubious proposition to think that anybody in Kiev or Washington
wouldn't anticipate the Russian response when they poked the Bear. So I'm not convinced that
Poroshenko flopped.
Just purely legally, the Ukraina and Russia had 2003 treaty with Russia on unimpeded
access to Azov sea (for both parties). That was unchallenged until now – when Ukraine
tried to send naval vessels there, not just civilian. I believe they provided an upfront
note. Note that Ukraine still has a non-trivial chunk of coastline in Azov sea, and as such
has legal right to send its vessels there – especially if they give substantial
warning.
Russian bridge between Kerch and Crimea blocks largest ships from Mariupol, which is an
important export port for Ukraine.
On the other hand, it appears that some of the crew on the Ukrainian vessels were from
Ukrainian secret service, one wonders why.
No, they did not provide an up front note, that's the entire point of controversy. By
now
* FSB published captured orders to cross the straights *stealthily*
* FSB published interviews with sailors, who confirm this
* The radio conversations between Russians and Ukrainian ships are out, and Russians keep
saying "back off and file your request properly, just like you did last time"
* About a month ago two Ukrainian navy ships did file correctly, and passed with no
problems
Under current rules you have to file your request 48 hours in advance, take a pilot to
pass under the bridge, and pass at assigned time in transit queue
As for the 'attacks' the other day, the Guardian of all outlets explains: "Since the
completion of the bridge over the Kerch strait, Moscow has demanded that Ukrainian ships not
only give notice of their intention to transit the strait but request permission, a change
that Kiev has rejected. According to western diplomats, the dispatch of the three ships was
intended to assert freedom of navigation.."
Sure, you can claim that Russia has no right to ask Ukraine to ask for permission to
the Sea of Azov, but then Kiev should have protested that demand, not send three armed
vessels to ignore the demand and sail through anyway. That is called provocation.
And Ukraine provoking Russia is a bad idea. Unless you're NATO, and you want Ukraine as
a member. And unless you're the chocolate billionaire who took over the government and now
has an approval rating in the single digits with elections coming up in March. Question: how
much chocolate do Ukrainians eat?
Russia just spent several billions on a combined highway – railway bridge over the
Kerch strait. That bridge relieves the threat of siege by Ukraine (and not incidentally is
reducing the cost of living in Ukraine and increasing tourism adding to the sense of economic
vitality that makes accession to Russia popular locally). But, of course, if Ukraine can
routinely route warships and tugs thru the strait under the bridge, without so much as a
by-the-by to Russia, that is itself an important threat to Russia's hold on Crimea.
.
These are realist and economic not legal considerations. But, it is an important aspect of
the context of political context underneath the narrative of who did what to whom when.
Crimea used to be one of highest income provinces of Ukraine and then overnight it became one
of the poorest in European Russia, which is in a good position to give Crimea prosperity and
income growth. There is plenty of cause for dissatisfaction with Russia, particularly among
the Crimean Tartars whose official leader is now a Ukrainian politician. But, absent war, the
Russians are likely to hold on to Crimea with the somewhat grudging approval of the vast
majority of residents.
The Crimean Khanate, a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire, succeeded the Golden Horde
and lasted from 1449 to 1783.[33] In 1571, the Crimean Tatars attacked and sacked Moscow,
burning everything but the Kremlin.[34] Until the late 18th century, Crimean Tatars
maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire, exporting about 2 million slaves
from Russia and Ukraine over the period 1500–1700.[35]
And a lot more at Wikipedia's Crimea article.
Do Crimean Tartars dream of independence for themselves?
They may dream, but ain't gonna happen. OTOH, they are getting a marvelous new, grand
mosque in Simferopol. Generally, relations between Russians and Tatars in Crimea are
cordial.
Yes, it will be hard for one reason, if not more – most of the Crimean Tartars are
in Turkey today (millions of them there, while there are only about 250,000 in Crimea, since
the inhumane and lawless removal by the USSR in 1944.)
Inhumane – may be in the eye of the beholder. The reason they were moved was because
they sided with the Gerrman nazis during WWII and actively supported them against the Russian
population. Among their oh-so-humane acts was betraying the locations of groups that
organized to fight against the nazis. They hid in the mountains, and the ever-humane Tatars
disclosed it all to the Germans.
Given that they spent centuries raiding what are today Ukrainian and Russian territories and
poaching the population to sell people into slavery, I am puzzled they tolerate them at all.
Half of Stambul is blonde and blue-eyed as a result of those raids. Better to know a bit of
history then repeat debunked factoids.
I was reading stories back in 2014 how the Turks gathered some of their Jihadist fighters
from Syria and were going to fly them into Crimea on two airliners to come down hard on
separatists with the Muslim Tatars as a base for them. If true, then this would explain why
the Russians shut down the airport in Crimea as a priority when they made their move.
Probably have to wait years more before the real story comes out about those times.
What a bunch of f*cktards, all of them (gov't critters). Normal people in Ukraine, Poland,
Russia, etc just want to get on with a normal life. But no, we have to have ideologies and
subterfuge. Gov't should just be a service provided and paid for by our taxes. Nothing else.
And they should learn the meaning of the words: cooperate, compromise, civility for the
benefit of their citizens.
Several commentators were predicting that Porky Porosh would resort to one or more
provocations in the run up to the election – mainly on account of his garnering no more
than 8-9% popularity rating. There really is not too much mystery to this whole affair.
So I was reading how Poroshenko was briefing Pompeo on progress in trying to get martial
law passed (
https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/11/mps-block-poroshenko-he-flees-from-the-rada-to-his-facebook-page-phones-pompeo/
) and then I began to wonder. The Ukrainian elections are on 29th March next year so even if
Poroshenko got his full 60 days of martial law, there was still a long gap until the
elections itself so why the odd timing.
Then the penny dropped. There is the G-20 Buenos Aires summit starting soon and Putin is
supposed to be meeting Trump while there. Trump has not fallen in line with people like Nikki
Halley but said: "We do not like what's happening, either way, we don't like what's happening
and hopefully it will get straightened out." So he is not onboard with another raft of
sanctions nor refusing not to meet Putin. Was this all then an attempt to spike that meeting
hence the early timing?
There must be a period of 3-4 months between the end of martial law and elections for
candidate registration, agitation etc. For elections to happen on time it must end in early
January 2019
Once martial law is in place, the president can prolong it indefinitely with no legal
limitations. Unhappiness of western backers might be a practical constraint, but that can be
mitigated through more provocations. So expect something happening in a month –
parliament initially only authorized 30 days, and Poroshenko needs to create a reason to
prolong
If Mexico formed an alliance with Russia, how would the US respond? (Cuban missile
crisis?) From the point of view of traditional great power politics, it's that simple. Monroe
Doctrine and all that. Russia has been fighting the West in this area from at least 1610.
We're poking around their neighborhood and no great power can tolerate such arrogance.
And recall another recent "incident," January 2016, those Mope Marines on "riverine
command boats" somehow "straying into Iranian waters' near the military base on Farsi Island.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_U.S.–Iran_naval_incident
First, "mechanical failure," then "navigation error," then punishment of 9 of the 10 Marines
for dereliction or something. And there was, drum roll, a Command Investigation, that found
mumble mumble grunt sigh Could not have been one of those probing operations that the Great
(sic) Powers do, or the Israel -ites, to check out the capabilities and responses and
electronic and "kinetic" equipage of "the enemy," by sending sacrificial mopes Into Harm's
Way, could it? Naaahh.
Even worse, if it was just Mope Gyrenes demonstrating the actual incompetence in Warcraft
of Our World's Greatest Military, let's remember that there's 4,000 nuclear warheads on
sub-launched and land-based multiple warhead ICBMs and in the bomb bays of the "ready line"
bombers and attack aircraft of "NATO," and thousands more on the Evil Soviet
Russian side, and China with a couple hundred, and Yisrael with 200 to 600 more. All poised
for quick if not instantaneous launch, increasingly under control of Advanced Artificial
Intelligence Genius Command and Control Systems ™,
https://thebulletin.org/landing_article/the-promise-and-peril-of-military-applications-of-artificial-intelligence/
. All waiting, impatiently in many cases, especially the Revelationist Xtian Air Farce
officers and enlisted men, for action, I might add. Waiting for some little 'incident" like
the ginned-up Ukraine idiocy or that oopsie by the Jarheads in January 2016 to trigger the
cascade of interlocking events and doctrines and directives and Operational Plans that means
I can stop churning my guts over the environment my child and grandchildren would otherwise
find themselves having to try to survive in
"... This is probably the most worrying development of the Martial Law thing. Porky is a despicable opportunist but he seems to be a predictable and practical despicable opportunist. He will wind up the tension and provocation song and dance for his NATO/US/EU sponsors in order to start the flow of delicious $$$s. ..."
"... Turchinov though, is a true believer. Or seems to be. And there is nothing more dangerous in a tense situation that one who believes his own rhetoric. I can easily see Turchinov being one to turn the nationalist rhetoric into reality and go off on a crusade to cleanse the moskals or die trying. ..."
Agreed; although the Hal Turner site says there is a full-on naval battle in progress between
the Ukrainian Navy and the Russian Navy, there is actually nothing of the sort. There is
great excitement that it may flash into a full-blown war in Europe, but that isn't going to
happen, either. Not now, anyway. Ukraine, properly speaking, doesn't really have a Navy; they
only have one major surface combatant that is seaworthy, if I remember correctly, and a
hodgepodge of smaller gunboats – Ukraine's ability to project power at sea is basically
non-existent. Russia could squash Ukraine like a bug, both at sea and on land, and before
President Porkchop throws his invincible millions into battle, he should bear in mind that
although Ukraine is a special project for Washington and Brussels, it is not a member of
NATO. American think-tankers have publicly urged Ukraine to blow up the Crimea Bridge, so
Russia is right to guard it, and Ukraine is ignoring all norms of territorial waters in a
childish attempt to play That Never Happened, as if Crimea still belonged to Ukraine. It does
not, and there was nothing illegal about its return to Russia, which is plainly the will of
its people who were never Ukrainians.
Porky is just throwing his weight about, and while it might be considerable, it has little
significance to NATO. The US warmongers would love to get something started, but the last
thing most Americans want is a major war with a nuclear power that has already said "I'm done
fucking around."
Now that all three Ukrainian ships have been captured and that he stupidly risked his
officers' lives, Poroshenko may finally rest easy: Turchinov just announced the possibility
of imposing Martial law which would cancel the Presidential elections (they won't be until
March 2019, so it seems a little early to declare that, but who knows).
Latest in Russian press is that the Ukie commanders performed on camera for video
interrogations, according to the rules of the genre, here is the link with the
interrogations/confessions:
The first guy, with the shaved head, who claims to be just an "ordinary crew member" is
said to be from Ukrainian SBU, as he gives his evidence to the camera he keeps playing with
his fingers and thumbs, probably sending Morse code signals to NATO!
What does the bridge conversation on the Russian vessel say? I believe the video was recorded
from the Russian viewpoint, and I hear a lot of "Davaiy! Davaiy!!" which is not "Oh dear, we
should turn away". It's 'Let's do it".
Yes, it sounds like the blood was up after such a goose chase but it does look like hitting a
suspect after he as given up. They could have handled it better. Not that I have any sympathy
for the Ukies, obvs, as you can really reasonable expect them to try anything to wind up
Russia.
Порошенко
обратился с
требованием к
властям России.
"Я обращаюсь к
руководству
Российской
Федерации с
требованием
немедленно
освободить
украинских
военнослужащих,
которые в
нарушение
международного
права, грубо
были задержаны
и судьба
которых
неизвестна", --
заявил
Порошенко.
Poroshenko has appealed to the Russian authorities.
"I appeal to the leadership of the Russian Federation with the demand that Ukrainian
military personnel, who, in violation of international law, have been roughly detained and
whose fate is unknown, be immediately released", Poroshenko said.
There's that thing called "International Law" again, something that the Exceptional Nation
and its satraps love so well to bandy about -- whenever it suits them to do so. Of course,
cutting off water and power supplies to civilians is quite alright.
The elections are already in question, because martial law (it must be confirmed by the
Rada today) is to be imposed for 2 months. This is very convenient for a head of state whose
popularity is rock-bottom and whose chances of being elected for a second presidential term
are as slim as are the chances of finding a virgin in a whorehouse.
By the way, Poroshenko has demanded that the sailors be urgently transferred along with
the ships to the Ukrainian side as a first step in de-escalating the situation in the Sea of
Azov. He stressed that he was waiting for an answer to his appeal .
There is something else that should give rise to Poroshenko becoming nervous: martial
law automatically makes the Bloody Pastor and the head of the National Security and Defence
Council number 2 in the Kiev Junta. And in the case of any incapacity that Poroshenko should
suffer -- including death from an overdose -- Turchinov then becomes head of the
regime.
And Turchinov, in my opinion, is as mad as a hatter, a bent Holy Joe -- and there's
nothing worse than a bible thumping wanker such as he is.
That's a good point: Under Martial Law, Turchinov could easily put a cap in Porky and make
himself the capo di capos. "Yet Brutus says he was ambitious "
This is probably the most worrying development of the Martial Law thing. Porky is a
despicable opportunist but he seems to be a predictable and practical despicable opportunist.
He will wind up the tension and provocation song and dance for his NATO/US/EU sponsors in
order to start the flow of delicious $$$s. He does this with the knowledge that unless
Russian servicemen are killed or other obvious red lines are crossed, engaging Ukraine in
open war is of no benefit to Russia and it will not happen. Sure Russia will slap them around
a little (ex these boats), but ultimately nothing of serious significance will take place.
Porky will huff and puff and kneel for the nationalists all day as long as there is benefit
to it and it keeps him in the feeding trough if you will, but he will not intentionally
commit to a serious course of action that will ruin him and his largesse.
Turchinov though, is a true believer. Or seems to be. And there is nothing more
dangerous in a tense situation that one who believes his own rhetoric. I can easily see
Turchinov being one to turn the nationalist rhetoric into reality and go off on a crusade to
cleanse the moskals or die trying.
He is definitely the one to watch during the Martial Law saga.
"... The Russian Navy detained the Ukrainian ships. Of course, the Western presstitutes, most of whom are CIA assets, will blame "Russian aggression." Washington and its presstitutes are doing everything they can to make impossible Trump's expressed goal of normal relations with Russia. NATO spokesperson Oana Lungescu quickly aligned NATO with Ukraine: "NATO fully supports Ukraine's sovereignty and its territorial integrity, including its navigation rights in its territorial waters." ..."
"... The Russian government's response to Ukraine's provocation and violation of law was to call an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council, as if anything would come of this. Washington pays such a large percentage of the UN budget, that few countries will side against Washington. As President Trump's crazed UN ambassador Nikki Haley said, "we take names." ..."
"... From all evidence, the Russian government still, despite all indications to the contrary, believes that presenting a non-threatening posture to the West, which appeals to law and not to arms, is effective in discrediting Western charges of aggression against Russia. If only it were true, but no sooner than a high Russian official announced that, despite the overwhelming elections for independence from Kiev in the breakway Russian provinces of Ukraine, Russia would not recognize the independent republics of Donetsk and Luhansk than "the Ukrainian army opened massive artillery fire on Sunday, shelling residential areas of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic." https://sputniknews.com/europe/201811261070125114-ukraine-kerch-strait-crisis-martial-law-poroshenko/ ..."
Ukrainian military ships have violated Russian restrictions in the Sea of Azov and Articles
19 and 21 of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. The Ukrainian Navy crossed the Russian
sea border and entered a closed area of Russian territorial waters. Clearly, Washington was
behind this as Ukraine would not undertake such a provocation on its own. Here is an accurate
explanation of the event: https://www.rt.com/news/444857-russia-ukraine-kerch-strait-standoff/
The US military/security complex prefers the risk of nuclear war to any diminution of its
$1,000 billion annual budget, a completely unnecessary sum that is destined to grow as the
presstitutes, in line with the military/security complex, continue to demonize both Russia and
Putin and to never question the obvious orchestrations that are used to portray Russia as a
threat.
The Russian government's response to Ukraine's provocation and violation of law was to call
an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council, as if anything would come of this. Washington
pays such a large percentage of the UN budget, that few countries will side against Washington.
As President Trump's crazed UN ambassador Nikki Haley said, "we take names."
From all evidence, the Russian government still, despite all indications to the contrary,
believes that presenting a non-threatening posture to the West, which appeals to law and not to
arms, is effective in discrediting Western charges of aggression against Russia. If only it
were true, but no sooner than a high Russian official announced that, despite the overwhelming
elections for independence from Kiev in the breakway Russian provinces of Ukraine, Russia would
not recognize the independent republics of Donetsk and Luhansk than "the Ukrainian army opened
massive artillery fire on Sunday, shelling residential areas of the self-proclaimed Donetsk
People's Republic."
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201811261070125114-ukraine-kerch-strait-crisis-martial-law-poroshenko/
By trusting that there is a rule of law in the West, the Russian government is digging
Russia's grave while it allows Washington's Ukrainian Nazis to murder Russian people. The
Russian government is discrediting itself by trusting US vassals, such as Germany, to enforce
the Minsk agreement and, despite all evidence to the contrary, believing that there is a rule
of law in the West. Russia continues, year after year, to appeal to this non-existent entity
called the Western Rule of Law.
This policy reassures the Zionist Neoconservatives who rule Washington's foreign policy that
Russia is incapable of defending its interests.
ORDER IT NOW Russia Is Disadvantaged by Her Belief that the West Is Governed by Law, by Paul
Craig Roberts - The Unz Review
This makes Russia an easy mark for Washington to destabilize. We see it already in Putin's
falling approval ratings in Russia. The Russian government permits US-financed Russian
newspapers and NGO organizations to beat up the Russian government on a daily basis. Decades of
American propaganda have convinced many in the world that Washington's friendship is the key to
success. The Russian Atlanticist Integrationists believe that Putin stands in the way of this
friendship.
China is also an easy mark. The Chinese government permits Chinese students to study in the
US from whence they return brainwashed by US propaganda and become Washington's Fifth Column in
China.
It sometimes seems that Russia and China are more focused on gaining wealth than they are on
national survival. It is extraordinary that these two governments are still constrained in
their independence and remain dependent on the US dollar and Western financial systems for
clearances of their international trade.
As Washington controls the explanations, surviving Washington's hegemony is proving to be a
challenge for both countries.
The FSB further revealed that there were two Ukrainian intelligence officers were
coordinating the provocation on board of the ships.
"The Ukrainian warships entered Russia's territorial waters at a direct order from the
Kiev authorities. The warships trespassed into the Russian territorial water that had enjoyed
this status even before Crimea's reunification with Russia. The provocation was coordinated
by two Ukrainian Security Service officers who were aboard the Ukrainian ships ," the FSB
said in a statement.
Quote from article "The warships trespassed into the Russian territorial water that
had enjoyed this status even before Crimea's reunification with Russia. "
Funny this is mentionned, in the west the morning propaganda broadcast clearly said
this happened in waters around crimea that are "ukrainian". I didnt beleive it
then....now i have confirmation...Thanks South Front your great!!!
Not a word about aleppo cw attack on the news....what a surprise.
Porko thinks that he's smarter than everyone - he hoped to get multiple benefits:
Martial law = no elections in march that he has no chance to win plus massive support
from the west. It seems that he missed both - matial law is implemented only partially
and west doesnt seem too eager to spend more money and see Porky for what he is - used
condom.
Yep - Porky's poll ratings are truly dire - martial law would allow ban on public
gatherings, debates, protests and full state control of all media in months leading up to
required election time-frame.
Approved in vote today:
"Martial law will be imposed for 30 days in only 10 of Ukraine's 27 regions - those
bordering Russia, Belarus and Moldova's pro-Moscow breakaway republic of
Trans-Dniester."
PS: SF has just confirmed this. :)
We have 3 Ukrainian service men who seem relaxed enough while giving video statements
about the events which happened. According to their statements it appears they were under
duress from their superiors to carry out this incursion into Russian territorial water,
cant see any of them ever heading back to the Ukraine as the consequences would be fatal.
My initial belief was that this was a coordinated NATO maneuver to spark an international
incident and maybe it was. However, it is beginning to play out more prosaically with
'Porkos', trying to instigate the project off his own bat with a half arsed plan. "Fail
to prepare, prepare to fail". McCain is dead and buried, expect Porkos shenanigans to
culminate with his political burial sooner than expected.
Let's discuss the subject of optics now, Sir Isaac Newton. Really. For some monsters,
the very existence of this bridge is offensive and bad optics to them. What to speak of
the gall to pull off this operation to begin with. People must be high out of their minds
on drugs. No other explanation anymore. (speaking to the minds behind this bs from UA,
NATO, UK)
It is clear that Poroshenko wants to stay in power. And this is one of the ways to increase Poroshenko chances on forthcoming
elections. It is simultaneously increase chances for him to land in jail as Timoshenko does not looks kindly on such blatant
attempts to hijack elections.
Unwilling to simply accept Poroshenko's claims that he had heard reliable whispers about an
imminent Russian invasion, opposition figures pressed Poroshenko on his reasoning for the
emergency measures, and ultimately succeeded in forcing him to water down the proposal. But
even before Poroshenko's decree won the approval of lawmakers, the Ukrainian president had
already started deploying troops into the streets of his country.
Now in a state of martial law, Ukraine has called up its reservists and deployed all
available troops to join the mobilization. Initially expected to last for two months,
Poroshenko revised his degree to avoid accusations that he would try to interfere in the
upcoming Ukrainian election. The decree passed by the Rada will leave martial law in effect for
30 days. The country has also started restricting travel for Russian nationals. NATO Commander
Jens Stoltenberg told the Associated Press that
Poroshenko had given his word that the order wouldn't interfere with the upcoming vote. The
conflict between the Ukraine and Russia exploded into life on Sunday
when Russian ships fired on two Ukrainian artillery ships and rammed a tugboat as the ships
traveled toward the Kerch Strait, which connects the Sea of Azov to the Black Sea. Russia's
mighty Black Sea fleet has taken the three ships and their crew into custody, and has so far
ignored calls to release the soldiers by the UN, European leaders and Poroshenko himself.
US officials criticized Russia for its "aggressive" defense of the Kerch Strait, which
Ukraine has a right to use according to a bilateral treaty. After Nikki Haley said during an
emergency meeting of the UN Security Council that Russia was making it "impossible" to have
normal relations with the US, Mike Pompeo said Russia's "aggressive action" was a "dangerous
escalation" and also "violates international law." He also advocated for Poroshenko and Russian
President Vladimir Putin to engage in direct talks. Russia says the ships disobeyed orders to
halt, and that Ukraine had failed to notify Russia of the ships' advance. Ukraine claims that
it did notify Russia, and that the incident is the result of "growing Russian aggression." Six
Ukrainian crewmen were injured in the Russian attack, which was the first act of violence
between the two nations since the annexation of Crimea.
Chief diplomats from both countries traded accusations of provocations and "deliberate
hostility."
Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin tweeted that the dispute was not an accident and
that Russia had engaged in "deliberately planned hostilities," while Russian Foreign Minister
Sergey Lavrov blamed Kiev for what he described as a "provocation," adding that "Ukraine had
undoubtedly hoped to get additional benefits from the situation, expecting the U.S. and
Europe to blindly take the provocateurs' side."
Poroshenko said the martial law was necessary because Ukraine was facing nothing short of a
all-out ground invasion.
Poroshenko said it was necessary because of intelligence about "a highly serious threat of
a ground operation against Ukraine." He did not elaborate.
"Martial law doesn't mean declaring a war," he said. "It is introduced with the sole
purpose of boosting Ukraine's defense in the light of a growing aggression from Russia."
But the president's plans to impose martial law throughout the country were rebuffed as the
opposition forced a compromise where troops will only be deployed in 10 border provinces. These
provinces share borders with Russia, Belarus and the Trans-Dniester, a pro-Moscow breakaway
region of Moldova.
Still, many remained skeptical. Opposition figures, including former President Yulia
Tymoshenko pointed out that the order would give soldiers broad latitude to do pretty much
whatever they want. Furthermore, Ukraine never called for martial law during the insurgency in
the east that erupted back in 2014, eventually leading to an armed conflict that killed more
than 10,000.
The approved measures included a partial mobilization and strengthening of air defenses.
It also contained vaguely worded steps such as "strengthening" anti-terrorism measures and
"information security" that could curtail certain rights and freedoms.
But Poroshenko also pledged to respect the rights of Ukrainian citizens.
[...]
Despite Poroshenko's vow to respect individual rights, opposition lawmaker and former
Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko warned before the vote that his proposal would lead to the
possible illegal searches, invasion of privacy and curtailing of free speech.
"This means they will be breaking into the houses of Ukrainians and not those of the
aggressor nation," noted Tymoshenko, who is leading in various opinion polls. "They will be
prying into personal mail, family affairs ... In fact, everything that is written here is a
destruction of the lives of Ukrainians."
Poroshenko's call also outraged far-right groups in Ukraine that have advocated severing
diplomatic ties with Russia. Hundreds of protesters from the National Corps party waved
flares in the snowy streets of Kiev outside parliament and accused the president of using
martial law to his own ends.
But Poroshenko insisted it was necessary because what happened in the Kerch Strait between
Crimea and the Russian mainland "was no accident," adding that "this was not the culmination
of it yet."
His critics reacted to his call for martial law with suspicion, wondering why Sunday's
incident merited such a response. With his approval ratings in free fall following a series of
corruption scandals, Poroshenko's enemies worry that the incident may have been stage-managed
to give the president an excuse to crack down on dissent and free movement ahead of the
vote.
And then there is Yulia Tymoshenko who is doing well in the polls. That crazy bitch said
that the separatists in the East should be nuked. Ukraine gave up on its nukes though.
Wise lesson for the West here: All politicians in Eastern Europe -whatever country and
whatever party- are sick psychopaths. Not that ours are any better. Yet, people keep voting
for them.
Perhaps but Putin has more interest to keep the situation as it is. Russian gas needs to
keep flowing into Europe. Russia needs that cash cow that the US is trying to disrupt .
One of my Russian mates sent me a link to a Russian news website and according to the
iskra-news.info last night ,Ukrainian gold reserves (40 sealed boxes) were loaded on an
unidentified transport aircraft in Kiev's Borispol airport. The plane took off
immediately.
So my guess is, that is if indeed this report is true it either means the new ruling elite
have stolen the gold bullion or perhaps their is a legitimate fear of the Russians taking
possession of this bullion, whatever the facts, it still looks very shady indeed.
Conclusion
Official narrative: gold bullion is going to USA (maybe to reassure the Germans their gold
is in safe hands, after all the despite numerous requests from the German Govt The Feds have
not given access for them to even view their Gold Bullion) . Real narrative: probably to
Switzerland where it is divided between Yulia Tymoshenko and her cronies.
Once again I simply implore one ACTUAL journalist to report on what's happening there.
Beside the mercenary sociopaths that took in millions off the first round of
"freedom".
Russia is a hurt and vulnerable nation.
The US has ginormous truth issues never to be resolved
Hence the Goths and Barbarians will agree that once more......Rome is burning
Btw, not defending Russia and as convoluted as it sounds my point is truth has been lost
even in this Instagram milli-second of info slop offering by those who are not standing in
the snow covered mud of unbiased reality
The last time Poroshenko, the US man in Ukraine (OU) as he was referred to in US
diplomatic cables from 2006 and exposed by Wkikleads, got the Ukes into a war with the
Eastern oblasts, a lot of Ukrainians got killed.
Poor buggers were crushed and they should never have been there. The US / McCain et al
used them as cannon fodder.
The Uke military had rotted after the breakup of the Soviet Union, and that was largely
because their corrupt leaders never gave any consideration to going to war against anyone,
other than political war against each other to determine who got the biggest slice from
plundering the state.
The plundering continues, only now there is scant left for the general population.
After the US putsch, income per capita dropped by approx a third, cost of living doubled
and tax collection was hampered even more than before because the average Uke had no money
left to pay taxes so they went underground. and paid off local officials just to let them
make a living doing whatever the could..
"Why would Russia want Ukraine in the first place?".
Lets see.....so they can fund an addition 50 million lazy ***** and pick up the tab for 25
million fat, diabetes ridden BROKE Ukrainian pensioners?
So Russia can sink tens of billions into Ukraine's bankrupt healthcare system?
Where is the upside for Russia?
Putin can add, he is not in the least bit interested in ruling Ukraine, he'd just as well
seal the ******* boarder and be done with it, in fact its what he is doing. Once those
alternate pipe lines are in there will be a 5,000 km fence and the Ukes can freeze in the
dark on their own.
Russia isn't interested in taking any country, the countries are warming up to Russia and
China. This is pissing off mushroom head and band of gypsies in DC. The failing empire
looking for a war.
"Please stop using incorrect US government propaganda language in your
articles."
US Intel cant remember everything remember they have an agenda to push. It might be a
truther website for the people posting but it is also a intel gathering site to keep abreast
of how some of the sheeple really feel. What better way to get the sheeple to open up?
If Russia can prove that Poroshenko administration staged this conflict for election purposes and members of SBU were on
board, he is not only a toast election-wise. He might face prosecution from the newly elected government of Yulia
Timoshenko. Yulia has a long memory and she definitely view this as an attempt to steal elections.
The Kremlin, along with some Ukrainian opposition figures, called the martial drumbeats
echoing from Kiev a domestic political ploy by its embattled president, Petro O. Poroshenko.
They accused him of fearmongering in order to delay or at least reconfigure the March 31
election that he had seemed certain to lose.
Mr. Poroshenko delivered a speech to Ukraine's Parliament asking it to approve the
declaration of martial law starting on Wednesday, with the military already on full alert. The
attack on the naval vessels near the shared waterway, the Kerch Strait, represented a new stage
of aggression in what he called Russia's "hybrid war" against Ukraine.
"This is a bold and frank participation of the regular units of the Russian Federation,
their demonstrative attack on the detachment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces," Mr. Poroshenko
said. "This is a qualitatively different situation, a qualitatively different threat."
Members of 450-member Verkhovna Rada, the Parliament, who were present voted overwhelmingly
to support the measure -- 276 to 30 -- after the president agreed to dilute its scope.
Ukraine also received a boost from the international reaction, underscoring both the
isolation of Russia from the West over the Ukraine conflict, and the desire to protect the
international maritime convention that allows for unimpeded shipping through any strait.
... ... ...
The Kremlin remained largely silent for much of the day. It was left to Foreign Minister
Sergey V. Lavrov to
address the issue , and his ministry accused Ukraine of creating threats to normal shipping
traffic in the strait by violating international maritime law, and trying to foment a crisis
for domestic political purposes.
... ... ...
Asked about events during his daily briefing, Dmitri S. Peskov, Mr. Putin's spokesman,
framed the Russian actions against the Ukrainian boats as an interception, not an attack.
"The question here is of incursion into the territorial waters of the Russian Federation by
foreign military vessels," Mr. Peskov said. "They entered the territorial waters of Russia
without responding to any queries from our border guards, in no way responded to offers to make
use of pilotage service, and so on and so forth."
... ... ...
There was, however, a widespread sense among opposition figures and analysts that Mr.
Poroshenko aimed to put off the March election, noting that he had not called for martial law
during previous points in the conflict when the fighting was far worse.
Mr. Poroshenko tried to assuage that criticism by cutting the period of martial law from two
months to one, so it would not interfere with the official start of the campaign season on Dec.
31.
Other compromises mean that the martial law declaration will only affect the 10 provinces
bordering Russia or Transnistria, a breakaway province of neighboring Moldova, also controlled
by Russian-backed forces.
The president also promised that martial law would not be used to curb civil liberties or to
announce a general military mobilization, and that it would only be enforced in the case of new
attacks. Still, the very prospect of martial law could help boost support for him as a wartime
leader.
But Ukraine wants to assert its continued sovereignty in areas which Russia considers its
own, analysts said. Controlling passage from the Black Sea through the Kerch Strait into the
Sea of Azov is a key element in asserting Russia's broader claim to Crimea.
"Moscow clearly seeks to turn the Azov Sea into a Russian basin, and to use it to bring
leverage to bear on Kiev," wrote Mark Galeotti, an expert on Russian intelligence services at
the Institute of International Relations in Prague, on Twitter . "It wants to
demonstrate its capacity to act without having to worry about external constraint."
The two sides signed an agreement in 2003 to guarantee free passage through the strait, but
in recent months have been harassing each other's ships. The port of Mariupol and a couple of
others are important for the Ukrainian economy for exports of steel and grain, as well as for
imports.
Steven Pifer, a former American ambassador to Ukraine, said that the Kremlin might be
testing the level of support for Ukraine using the waterway. "They can very easily back off,"
he said. "But if they sense the reaction is weak, I think that they will continue the
blockade."
The net effect of marital law for 30 days in those region might surprise Poroshenko and his
handlers
Notable quotes:
"... Russia's FSB says that among the Ukrainian crew members detained are two guys from Ukraine's domestic secret service SBU... ..."
"... I'd also guess that "f*ck the EU" is still the order of the day. These provocations will be used to put more pressure on EU to increase military spending and accept US natural gas. ..."
"... This provocation just seems to be straight out of the FUKUS playbook...i am not sure that poroshenko is smart enough to have laid all this out...he is just a motivated servant(election he is sure to lose) following the orders of his financiers... ..."
"... Well, good luck to Kiev in trying to maintain a police state apparatus in the eastern, southeastern and southern parts of Ukraine. If there's one thing that will break up Ukraine as a political entity, surely it's got to be actions on Kiev's part that punish people in those oblasts just for being next door to Russia or for not being Nazi enough. ..."
"... The current Ukie provocation may well be to take the Aleppo CW attack out of the news. Around 2014 2015 In noticed that when blocked on one front, the US et al (I have started to think in terms of a five-eyes permanent state) would move to another front - Ukraine, Syria, South China Sea. The last couple of years, their attention seems to have been mostly on Syria, Iran and the middle east. ..."
At the UN today, US Ambassador Nikki Haley denounced what she called Russia's "outrageous
violation of sovereign Ukrainian territory".
She didn't say which laws were violated or mention that the ships were Navy vessels:
"Let's be clear about what is known.
Ukrainian ships set sail from one Ukrainian port to another Ukrainian port. They attempted
to do so by the only possible way to go, through the Kerch Strait. Both Russia and Ukraine
use the strait routinely. But this time, Russia decided to prevent passage of the Ukrainian
ships, rammed them, and then opened fire on them.
This is no way for a law-abiding, civilized nation to act. Impeding Ukraine's lawful
transit through the Kerch Strait is a violation under international law." https://usun.state.gov/remarks/8784
This provocation was probably planned by the evil orange clown in the white house and his
handlers, for the express purpose of creating an excuse (look Ma, more "Russian aggression")
that the demonic orange poseur can use to avoid meeting with Vladimir Putin.
The amount of assets Russia put into this operation most likely means there is a lot more
going on than has been reported on.
From the reports I have read, this was an FSB operation. FSB duties according to wikipedia
"Its main responsibilities are within the country and include counter-intelligence, internal
and border security, counter-terrorism, and surveillance as well as investigating some other
types of grave crimes and federal law violations."
"Ukraine's parliament approved late on Nov. 26 the imposition of 30 days of martial law in
10 oblasts located on the Russian border, the border with the Russian-controlled Transnistria
region of Moldova and oblasts located by the Black and Azov seas.
The 276 lawmakers out of 330 present in parliament voted in favor of a bill by President
Petro Poroshenko who proposed it in response to Russian escalation in the Black Sea.Ukraine's
parliament approved late on Nov. 26 the imposition of 30 days of martial law in 10 oblasts
located on the Russian border, the border with the Russian-controlled Transnistria region of
Moldova and oblasts located by the Black and Azov seas.
The 276 lawmakers out of 330 present in parliament voted in favor of a bill by President
Petro Poroshenko who proposed it in response to Russian escalation in the Black Sea. ...
... In an address to the nation that preceded the vote, Poroshenko sad martial law will
take effect at 9 a.m. Kyiv time on Nov. 28. It will include Vinnytsia, Luhansk, Donetsk,
Zaporizhzhia, Mykolayiv, Odesa, Sumy, Chernihiv, Kharkiv and Kherson oblasts.
It will enable the military to take over control over these areas and restrict the civic
and political rights of their residents. The text of the bill is still now published and the
lawmakers voted for it based on the oral presentation of parliament speaker Andriy
Parubiy.
Parliament passed it after 10 hours of backroom discussions and disputes in the meeting
hall, amid swearing and insults.
Many found it odd to impose the martial law in the fifth year of Russia's war against
Ukraine and claimed Poroshenko offered the bill to postpone the presidential elections in
2019. According to recent polls, he has the highest negative rating among all the candidates
and low chances to win.
Under pressure, Poroshenko agreed to limit martial law to 30 days instead the earlier
planned 60 days and restrict its scope to 10 oblasts instead of the entire territory of
Ukraine.
Speaking in parliament, Poroshenko also assured the lawmakers he was going to implement
the martial law "explicitly in case of the Russian aggression on the ground." Otherwise,
there will be no limitations of the human rights in these areas, h said."
@103 https://youtu.be/fZGbkkOOuDA
- video of the questioning in Russian. No new revelations, just a few sailors saying more or
less the same thing - yes, we got the orders to cross into Azov sea and intentionally ignored
Russian commands.
There is also a timeline published by FSB in Russian at http://www.fsb.ru/fsb/press/message/single.htm%21id%3D10438315%40fsbMessage.html
that basically says
* Ukrainian ships approached, stated their intent to cross the straits and said they do not
recognize Russian authority
* Russia blocked the straits, standoff continued for some time
* Russia intercepted radio calls discussing leaving slow tug behind and charging the straits
with two gunboats
* The gunboats uncovered their autocannons; night approached
* at some point FSB decided it might end badly and ordered the ships to surrender. Faced with
overwhelming force, and not being suicidal, they more or less did
@105 laguerre.. i think the issue of some in the usa suggesting to blow up the bridge, not to
mention some loose cannons in the ukraine maybe saying something similar, has put russia in a
different position then otherwise... obviously they can monitor anything moving in the
vicinity via water, very easily.. the tactical nuke story was probably a pile of bs, or we
would have been told more by now, after russia ceased the tug...
however, perhaps the biggest issue is how the west under the leadership of the usa-uk -
have wanted to ramp up the hostility towards russia in all ways... this can't go unnoticed by
ordinary observers, including russia, here.. this is the type of environment that the west
has intentionally cultivated... this event is a byproduct of their indiscretion..
The rumored suitcase nuke likely activated the FSB besides the fact that some sort of
provocation's been expected since the Kerch Bridge construction began. The videos I've seen
show lots of commercial freighters--12-14, perhaps more--and other vessels on a lovely day to
be out on the water. The provocation also conveniently upstaged any mention of the terrorist
chemical attack in Aleppo and further Turkish Khashoggi drips. Although written before the
provocation,
Alastair Crooke's latest is of tangential import as the Il-20 shootdown's stiffening of
Russian resolve wasn't limited to Syria and has likely had ripple effects throughout Russia's
military and security services.
I re-read Point 9 in The Pessimist's comment @ 47 again: Martial law will also allow to cancel diplomatic agreements with the enemy and to seize
the property of the aggressor that is on the territory of Ukraine
In other words, martial law would not only allow Ukraine to continue ignoring Minsk I and
II agreements but also allow it to invade and claim Crimea and the city of Sevastopol.
The naval base in Sevastopol is more valuable to the Americans than Crimea and Ukraine
themselves. They also want to get rid of the Turkstream gas pipeline which opened
recently.
Ahhh, got the answer to The Pessimist's query @ 54! If the Ukrainians provoke an incident
with Russia, then Russia (according to their thinking) will retaliate with force, justifying
Poroshenko's call for martial law and the compulsory military draft and putting Ukraine on a
war footing that go with it. (This would "explain" the gas and water stoppages as well.)
Martial law would enable Ukraine (along with assistance from NATO "advisors") to seize Crimea
and Sevastopol. Sevastopol could be delivered to the Americans.
With the naval base transferred to the US military, the Black Sea effectively becomes a US
lake and the Turkstream gas pipeline from Russia to Turkey (which would supply gas to
southeast Europe and Italy) becomes a target for attack.
@ jen... that would be yet another way to start ww3... i am sure the neo cons running
usa-uk-west - foreign policy, are working full time to accomplish this...
'Coming to a blog near us ...... all Ukrainians being subjected to a compulsory military
draft'
Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of young military age men have fled Ukraine....
much like young white men fled the US war of aggression on Viet Nam. Ukraine does not have
millions of young black children to fight their war using the draft. They will need to draft
housewives and broke down farmers.
Seems the best situation for Ukrainians in general who want peaceful relations with Russia
and an end to the UrkoNazi nightmare would be for the Rada to declare war against Russia
then, a la The Mouse That Roared , surrender and allow Russia to gain control so they
could thaw out, drink water and eat decent food again. The polling data presented shows no
one potential leader has anything near to a majority of people having confidence in her/him,
which is the real bankruptcy of Ukraine engineered by UK/US/EU, leading one to wonder what
numbers Putin would garner.
exiled off mainstreet , Nov 26, 2018 6:37:01 PM |
link
Perhaps now that the Poroshenko regime has ordered a general mobilisation, it is time for
Russia to liquidate this regime once and for all. I recognize that this threatens nuclear
war, but the mobilisation order seems to indicate that the Ukrainian regime attacked first
and makes it a bit less likely that nuclear war might ensue if this problem is liquidated
once and for all. Of course, the cost of redevelopment of this failed state will be
humongous.
I'd guess that Porky will try to extend and expand the martial law sometime before it
expires.
I'd also guess that "f*ck the EU" is still the order of the day. These provocations
will be used to put more pressure on EU to increase military spending and accept US natural
gas.
This provocation just seems to be straight out of the FUKUS playbook...i am not sure that
poroshenko is smart enough to have laid all this out...he is just a motivated
servant(election he is sure to lose) following the orders of his financiers... his
willingness to pay for a "full readiness" military operation, when his people are freezing to
death and have no money...seems more like a desperate servant than a leader of the
people...he is expendable as far as everyone is concerned...
The legal paperwork for the martial law was completed weeks before this provocation was
launched...the MSM had their stories all ready to go..
I am not certain where FUKUS is going to take this, but i think they will try to get NATO
embroiled in it...that could be a real problem...
Noticed that Poroshenko's martial law applies to those oblasts that border Russia to the
north and east, the southern oblasts that border Crimea or which have a seaboard, and
Vinnitsya and Odessa oblasts to the southwest because those two oblasts border the
self-proclaimed maverick Transnistria Republic. So there is pressure being applied as well to
Transnistria Republic to swallow its pride and return to Moldova with tail between its legs.
On top of that, the oblasts being subjected to martial law are dominated by Russian-language
speakers and these oblasts are also the oblasts that supported Viktor Yanukovych and his
party in Presidential elections in 2010.
No oblasts in the northwest part of the country bordering EU nations (that is, the
hardcore Banderite-Nazi strongholds) have been subjected to martial law.
Well, good luck to Kiev in trying to maintain a police state apparatus in the eastern,
southeastern and southern parts of Ukraine. If there's one thing that will break up Ukraine
as a political entity, surely it's got to be actions on Kiev's part that punish people in
those oblasts just for being next door to Russia or for not being Nazi enough.
"Looks like Poroshenko ran into some real problems in the Rada. Unsurprisingly, pretty
much all the political parties have immediately understood what this was all about and have
categorically rejected the text Poroshenko submitted. They only adopted a much watered-down
version in which the martial law is introduced only for one month, not two, and the fact that
the elections will take place as scheduled has been re-confirmed ." [Emphasis
mine]
Poroshenko's worse than a lame duck. That the Rada acted somewhat independently is a good
sign.
Thanks for the link to Crooke's article. The Khashoggi killing looks to have been a game
changer for the region and Crooke sums it up well. The current Ukie provocation may well
be to take the Aleppo CW attack out of the news. Around 2014 2015 In noticed that when
blocked on one front, the US et al (I have started to think in terms of a five-eyes permanent
state) would move to another front - Ukraine, Syria, South China Sea. The last couple of
years, their attention seems to have been mostly on Syria, Iran and the middle
east.
Jen@121 yes exactly. The monstrousnes of US foreign policy and its consequences still
staggers and shames me, despite my cynicism. Empowering such people, providing weapons and
encouragement even when they are not more directly involved.
"...Over the past four years over 1,000 Canadian troops (a rotation of 200 every six months)
has deployed to the Ukraine to train a force that includes the best-organized neo-Nazis in
the world. Far right militia members are part of the force fighting Russia-aligned groups in
eastern Ukraine.
Five months ago Canada's military attache in Kiev, Colonel Brian Irwin, met privately with
officers from the Azov battalion, who use the Nazi 'Wolfangal' symbol and praise officials
who helped slaughter Jews during WWII. According to Azov, the Canadian officials concluded
the June briefing by expressing 'their hopes for further fruitful cooperation.'
More generally, Canadians have fundraised for and joined rightist militias fighting inside
Ukraine. For their part, top politicians have spoken alongside and marched with members of
Ukraine's Right Sector, which said it was 'defending the values of White Christian Europe
against the loss of the Nation and deregionalisation.'
Didnt they try to sail a US ship near Crimea a few years back and it wound up having its
electronics quickly disabled and fighter jets flown at it to show it can easily be sunk?
There's provoking these guys with sanctions but if you're going to escalate it and threaten
so sail a fleet into its territory, I'd expect a war. Im sure they've already prepared for
this to potentially happen and that fleet would be hit with missiles from all angles.
Ridiculous
Not just Canada. The five eyes permanent state utilises nazis, wahhabi's and zionists -
zionist's it seems being deeply embedded in the permanent state.
Fernando Martinez , Nov 26, 2018 9:15:52 PM |
link
@121 jen.. thanks for the more detailed analysis on that...
@125 john gilberts.. thanks... have you contacted The Honourable Harjit Singh Sajjan MP
who is the dept. of defense minister on this? here is his e mail.. [email protected]
Not much to see here. The empire's little gas monkeys got off their leash in Syria and did
something stupid and embarrassing, so a diversion was required to avoid all those
uncomfortable questions at the UN. Luckily the embarrassingly half-witted, submissive
Ukrainian leadership is only too happy to help out the empire and sacrifice its soldiers and
national interests. The alphabet agencies must ROFL at the clowns in Kyiv. Local population
not so much.
...
i) A vessel to starboard has right of way.
ii) A larger vessel has right of way over a smaller vessel.
The small Ukrainian tug had the larger Russian vessel to its starboard (rules i and ii
against it). The tug effectively cut across the bow of the larger Russian vessel and slowed
down in front of it. The Russian vessel was turning away to minimise the inevitable impact
arising from the deliberate actions of Ukranian captain of the tug.
So whilst the optics look bad, the rules obliged the tug to get out of the way. Nice.
It's an amplification of the routine pre-race jostling behind the START line before a
yacht race. If your timing is lousy then you'll cross the START line before the gun goes off
and be disqualified unless you go back and cross the START line AFTER the gun fired. A
majority of casual Sunday yacht racers are just there to have fun and are happy to sit well
back from the line with limp sails and yank them tight when the gun has fired, and leave the
jostling to the fanatics.
Apart from the ramming of the tug boat, it seems the Ukie navy vessels were fired on.
Whatever intel Russia had, they were there to stop the pricks rather than just a nice day on
the water.
The desire of Poroshenko to stay in power is evident here, but there might be other motives
for staging this incident.
Notable quotes:
"... The Kerch waters is Russian. The Bridge is Russian. Passage is controlled by Russian FSB-coast guard. This makes the Sea of Azov a Russian inland waterway in fact. ..."
Originally posted Nov 25: 18:00 utc - Updated below on Nov. 26, 6:00 utc
---
The Ukrainian government under the oligarch Petro Poroshenko is in election campaign
mode. That is one reason why it is launching new provocations against Russia. Yesterday
Ukrainian forces reportedly occupied a town within the neutral zone between the government
controlled part and the rebel held Donetsk area. Today the Ukrainian navy sent a tug and
two small gun boats, recently acquired from the U.S. Coast Guard, Ukrainian build
Gurza-M
class types, to pass through the Kerch Strait into the Sea of Azov.
When the ships entered Russian waters without announcing their intent, a Russian coast
guard ship rammed ( vid ) and damaged the tug. The two gun
boats escaped but did not
pass the strait. The pictures show the melee at sea.
With Crimea back in Russian hands, the Kerch Strait is solely Russian territorial water.
The Treaty on the Legal Status of the Sea of Azov and the Kerch Strait, signed in 2003 by
Russia and the Ukraine, provides that military ship entry into the sea is only allowed with
mutual consent. Ukraine disputes the status of the sea in an arbitration court. (For a
legal discussion of the case see
1 ,
2 ,
3 .)
The Ukrainian government, urged on by the U.S.,
wants to establish a new military harbor in the Sea of Azov. Two of its navy ships, a
rescue vessel and a tug, passed through the street on September 23. In October the Russian
government
warned that it will not allow any further militarization of the sea. Some U.S. hawks
even
want NATO ships to enter the Sea of Azov. The Sea of Azov has a maximum depth of 7
meters. Typical U.S. frigates have a draft of 10+ meters. What NATO or U.S. ship could even
go there? As Russia firmly controls the sole entry point into the sea and can easily attack
any ship in the Sea of Azov from within its borders the idea is incredibly stupid.
The passage is closed and a number of ships are bunched up on both sides.
Pic via
MarineTraffic of traffic at 15:45 utc - bigger
The Ukrainian provocation may well be aimed to sour the meeting between President
Trump and Putin that is planned for November 30 during the G20 summit in Argentina. It
should be more careful. It is quite possible that Russia will block commercial traffic to
the Ukrainian port of Mariupol over any further incident. The big loser of this useless
provocation would then again be the Ukraine.
---
Update - Nov. 26, 6:00 utc
The Russian coast guard detained the three Ukrainian ships and their crews
in Russian waters. They again illegally attempted to cross from the Black Sea through the
Kerch Strait into the Sea of Azov. The Ukrainian side says the two of its seaman were
injured.
Since Crimea voted to again become a part of Russia the Kerch Strait is Russian
territorial water. Ships can pass the strait but are required to take on a pilot and to
undergo inspections if the Russian coast guard demand such. The Ukrainian side understands
that these are legal measures. In a report by the U.S. government outlet RFL/RE published
in August the Ukrainian side
admitted as much :
[The Ukrainian Sea Guard and the squadron's spokesman] Poliakov said that, while Russia's
actions are "provocative," because of a controversial 2003 agreement on cooperation and
shared use of the Sea of Azov and Kerch Strait, " everything Russia is doing here is
technically legal. "
The three Ukrainian ships tried to pass Russian waters without informing Russian
authorities and without taking on pilots. Since Russia build the $3.7 billion Kerch bridge
which connects Crimea with Russia, U.S. commentators
and Ukrainian
politicians threatened to blow up the bridge:
"The Kerch Bridge is an enemy's infrastructure. It connects the occupied territory with
the mainland of the aggressor country, that is why it is an enemy's infrastructure,"
Mosiychuk said on air of 112 Ukraine channel.
According to him, "any normal country" in a state of war strives for destroying
enemy's infrastructure. Answering a question whether he personally would destroy the
bridge, he said that he would do it if he were the defense minister.
The Russians are understandably careful with any traffic near to it.
Following yesterday's incident the president of the Ukraine Pedro Poroshenko proposed
to declare martial law. The parliament will have to decide on that. This is a very
convenient move for Poroshenko as it will allow him to move the March 2019 general election
date. Poroshenko trails in the polls with some 8% of the total vote.
Russia called for a UN Security Council emergency meeting which will be held at today at
11:00am EST. The passage through the Kerch Strait is again open for civil vessels .
The usual anti-Russian subject in "western" political circles use the incident to demand
more measures against Russia.
Fronting the effort is the weapon industry lobbying group Atlantic Council:
Anders Åslund, a resident senior fellow in the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center,
said: "NATO and the United States should send in naval ships in the Sea of Azov to
guarantee that it stays open to international shipping."
Such action, Åslund said, "would be in full compliance with the UN Law of the
Sea Convention of 1982 and the Montreux Convention Regarding the Regime of the Straits of
1936."
Anders Aslund is listed as member of the "U.S. & Canadian Cluster" of the secret
influence operation by the British Foreign Office
describe here two days ago . He is obviously unable to read a map, sea chart, or UN
convention. The Ukrainian attempt to pass through the Kerch Strait without Russian consent
is a breach of Article 7, 19 and 21 of the UN Law of the
Sea Convention (pdf):
Article 7: "Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or
land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea."
...
Article 19-1: "Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good
order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with
this Convention and with other rules of international law."
...
Article 21-4: "Foreign ships exercising the right of innocent passage through the
territorial sea shall comply with all such [coastal state] laws and regulations and all
generally accepted international regulations relating to the prevention of collisions at
sea."
There will now be again a lot of noise in the media about the 'nefarious Russians' and
new demands for even more useless sanctions. But the legal case is clear. It was the
Ukrainian navy that willfully attempted to pass from the Black Sea into the Sea of Azov
through Russian territorial waters without regard to the laws and regulations of the
coastal state. Russia was within its full rights to prevent the passage and to seize the
Ukrainian boats. Thanks for the more balanced reporting b then anywhere in MSM land of this
event.
I agree with your connection to the coming G20 as I think the gas attack in Aleppo
yesterday is/was as well.
The coming G20 should be quite interesting. Lots could happen given all we see happening
around us
"Some U.S. hawks even want NATO ships to enter the Sea of Azov. The Sea of Azov has a
maximum depth of 7 meters. Typical U.S. frigates have a draft of 10+ meters. What NATO or
U.S. ship could even go there?"
Ha ha, that sure is typical of neocon chickenhawks. They babble insanely in favor of war
but are utterly ignorant of even the most elementary facts about any technology or place or
situation.
The once called Ukraine country is losing daily. Population is fast approaching 30 million
people, down from mid 50's, economy is basically non existent, ordinary people are
starving, freezing and have become the poorest in all Europe, while oligarchs like Porky
continue to play games of grandeur and power. The people living in the once called Ukraine
must fight back, there is no salvation from politicians, they must take control of the
country or soon it will be a wasted land.
2019 will be a very tough year for the once called Ukraine, it is very likely Russia will
not renew the gas transit contract, meaning less income for Kiev's regime, Donbass may
finally take its future to the next step and get closer to Russia while the rest of the
once called Ukraine will see many pockets of rebellion and civil war, very bad omen for the
once called Ukraine in 2019.
I have been observing the situation in the Sea of Azov for a while. It all started out with
the Ukraine confiscating a Crimean fishing boat. Next step was threatening to cancel the
contract between the Ukraine and Russia on the use of the Sea of Azov. With out the
contract the Sea of Azov would become an international water. I am pretty sure there is a
NATO plan being followed as not to long ago the UK war minister demanded access to the Sea
of Azov and last week Mogherini from the EU was treathening new sactions if Russia would
not change its position concerning the Sea of Azov. I am sure this treath was not something
Kiev was willing to ignore an pass a chance to provoke Russia once again - maybe thus today
provocation.
What I find interessting is the silence in the western MSM.
Yesterday Ukrainian forces occupied a town within the neutral zone between the government
controlled part and the rebel held Donetsk area.
By the way, in the LPR they denied the information of the Ukraine's Armed Forces about
the "capturing" of a settlement in the Donbass.
"The statement of the headquarters of Operation Combined Forces of Ukraine on the
"capture" of a settlement in the Donbass is not true. This settlement has been under
their control before" - this was stated by the Acting Head of the People's Militia of
the LPR, Mikhail Filiponenko. According to him, such statements of the Ukraine's Armed
Forces speak about the desire to demonstrate the "essence of the Ukrainian command",
which wants to exaggerate its merits before the visit to the Donbass of the presidents of
Ukraine and Latvia.
"I am sure Western patrons of the Kiev regime are behind this provocation - it doesn't
look a mere coincidence that European and American politicians have been so concerned over
the situation in the Sea of Azov in the recent months. Ukraine, as a country stripped of
sovereignty and being under external governance , is an instrument for whipping up
international tensions."
His description of what sort of "state" Ukraine's become is 100% spot-on, and Canthama's
description of conditions for civilians is also correct. Many towns have had gas supplies
cut off completely in what's known as Warming Season, and their citizens are
literally freezing .
As for the upcoming G-20, the spectacle of MbS confronting Erdogan outshines any
Putin-Trump sideline meet, IMO. Indeed, there really isn't any reason for Trump to even
show, except maybe as the referee between an bin-Salman/Erodogan wrestling match.
The lying shits at the
Atlantic Council are putting out their usual crap comparing this with "Russia's war on
Georgia" - I seem to recall that the EU stated it was Georgia's war on Russia. Does this
mean we're going to see more garbage from Bellingcat?
Under international law Kiev is allowed access to the Sea of Azov thorough its' port city
of Mariupol. However, just like the straits of Hormuz Russia still has the 12 mile
territoriality around its' coast so the current ship incursion into Russia's territory is
clearly a provocative action by Ukraine. No doubt Ukraine believe that the current NATO
wargames will dissuade the Russian from making a firm response (a dubious theory at best,
especially since it now appears that the Russians have seized several of the offending
vessels). Unhappily, it appears that Russia made a mistake when it forced the Donetsk
troops to stop their advance to take Mariupol back in 2015/2016 as part of the peace
settlement as Kiev's possession of Mariupol (and the resulting right of access into the Sea
of Azov), makes it a weeping wound that Kiev can salt whenever it feels like provoking a
timely crisis (It's just been announced that Poroshenko has used the ship incident to
declare marshal law throughout Ukraine - this could lead to all sorts of situations; a new
attack on the separatists, delaying the upcoming elections, cracking down on his political
enemies/rivals, etc...)
Comment at the Hal Turner site from inteldrop333 at 17:59 11/25/2018
Very improtant Info appeared briefly on Russian media (before being scrubbed) that a NATO
SADM, possibly a Diver deployable device, was being transported to the Kerch Straight to
be used on the Crimean bridge. The device was being tracked by the Russians and they knew
it had been loaded on to a Ukrainian Tug (escorted by 5 warships!! – 3 in the Black
Sea, including one NATO vessel, and 2 waiting in the Sea of Azov).
This is why the Russians acted!
They never react with force and have never blockaded the Sea of Azov. Ground attack jets
and Helicopter gunships, plus a warship armed with ASM and Torpedos were waiting.
This level of force would not be used just for a tug and a few old Ukrainian ships. But a
tug carrying a tactical nuclear device about to bring down one of the worlds most
strategic bridges, a bridge hated by NATO – as per the recent Op Ed in the
'Washington Examiner' (Ukraine should bomb the Crimean Bridge).
Ukraine regularly provokes Russia to little effect, but today the Rusians acted to stop a
terrible event.
Ukraine is now in panic mode and there may be direct NATO intervention if the to cover
this, if the Russians make this public.
The device may have come from the UK.
The UK have been psychologically preparing thier people for a war with Russia.
The SADM low-yield nuclear explosion would have brought down the bridge and melted the
foundations, but looked like a conventional IED blast from above due to the underwater
detonation and relatively low yeield of less than 1KT.
This was a WW3 level provocation STOPPED by the Russian FSB and SF's!
All traces of these reports are being scrubbed as I write!
Get this out before the story is completly scrubbed.
@28, Ben
"So the Ukrainians piloted a tanker out underneath a bridge crossing this strait in the
Sea Of Azov that forms a choke point for shipping."
You have this wrong. The tanker-freighter was placed there by Russian FSB coast guard to
block any passage from either side. The Ukies had two boats coming from the Azov side also,
beside the three from Odessa in the Black Sea.
The Kerch waters is Russian. The Bridge is Russian. Passage is controlled by Russian
FSB-coast guard. This makes the Sea of Azov a Russian inland waterway in fact.
The Black Sea waters also are coastal to Russia in significant lengths including
Crimea.
This is the significance of Sevastopol and Crimea to the national security of Russia. It
almost fell into NATO hands. 2014 was much more than Maidan and Donbass. Crimea is one of
the most strategic pieces of real estate in history and absolutely necessary to Russia
Federation security.
1 In the event that martial law is introduced, able-bodied citizens have a labor duty
for the purpose of performing work of a defensive nature.
2 A curfew on the territory where martial law is imposed.
3 A specific regime of entrance and exit.
4 Verification of documents, examination of things, vehicles, and so forth.
5 Martial law allows the state to control the activity of the media, cultural
institutions, and printing houses.
6 Natural persons and legal persons are obliged to provide space for quartering of
military personnel should the need arise.
7 The military command can ban the activity of parties and public organizations if they
threaten security, territory, the independence of the country, or the life of citizens.
8 It is impossible to dismiss the parliament or to announce the impeachment of the
president in a state of martial law. This also applies to most ministers, judges, the
prosecutor's office, and local governments.
9 Martial law will also allow to cancel diplomatic agreements with the enemy and to
seize the property of the aggressor that is on the territory of Ukraine.
The Russian world is caught up in a drama. Its leading Orthodox Church faces a schism over the Ukraine's drive for its own independent
church. If Kiev regime succeeds, the split between Russia proper and its breakaway Western part, the Ukraine, will widen. The Russian
Church will suffer a great loss, comparable to the emergence of the Anglican church for the Catholics. However, there is a chance
for the Russians to gain a lot from the split, to gain more than to lose.
The Ukraine actually has its own church, and this church is the self-ruling autonomous Ukrainian Orthodox Church, a part of the
Russian Orthodox Church. Its autonomy is very broad; it can be considered independent practically in every aspect excepting its nominal
recognition of Moscow supremacy. The Ukrainian Church does not pay tribute to Moscow, it elects its own bishops; it has no reason
to push for more. No tangible reason, at least.
But in the Ukraine, there was and is a strong separatist tendency, with a somewhat romantic and nationalist tinge, comparable
to Scots or Languedoc separatism. Its beginning could be traced to 18th Century, when a Moscow-appointed ruler Hetman Mazeppa rose
against Russia's Peter the Great and allied himself with the Swedish warrior-king Charles XII. A hundred years after the revolt,
the foremost Russian poet, Alexander Pushkin, composed a beautiful romantic poem Poltava (following
Byron's Mazeppa ) where he gives Mazeppa the following words:
For far too long we've bowed our heads, Without respect or liberty, Beneath the yoke of Warsaw's patronage, Beneath the yoke of Moscow's despotism. But now is Ukraine's chance to grow Into an independent power. (trans. by Ivan Eubanks)
This romantic dream of an independent Ukraine became real after the 1917 Revolution, under the German occupation at the conclusion
of World War One. Within a year or two, as the defeated Germans withdrew, the independent Ukraine became Soviet and joined Soviet
Russia in the Soviet Union of equal Republics. Even within the Union, the Ukraine was independent and it had its own UN seat. When
Russian President Yeltsin dissolved the Union, Ukraine became fully independent again.
In the 1991 divorce with rump Russia (after hundreds of years of integration), the Ukraine took with her a major portion of the
former Union's physical and human assets. The spacious country with its hard-working people, fertile black soil, the cream of Soviet
industry producing aircraft, missiles, trains and tractors, with the best and largest army within the Warsaw Treaty, with its universities,
good roads, proximity to Europe, expensive infrastructure connecting East and West, the Ukraine had a much better chances for success
than rump Russia.
But it didn't turn out this way, for reasons we shall discuss elsewhere. A failed state if there ever was one, the Ukraine was
quickly deserted by its most-valuable people, who ran away in droves to Russia or Poland; its industries were dismantled and sold
for the price of scrap metal. The only compensation the state provides is even more nationalism, even more declarations of its independence.
This quest for full independence has been even less successful than economic or military measures. The Kiev regime could dispense
with Moscow, but it became subservient to the West. Its finances are overseen by the IMF, its army by NATO, its foreign policy by
the US State Department. Real independence was an elusive goal, beyond the Ukraine's reach.
A total break of the Ukrainian church with the nominal supremacy of Moscow appealed to President Petro Poroshenko as a convincing
substitute for real independence, especially with a view toward the forthcoming elections. He turned to the patriarch of Constantinople,
His All-Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew asking him to grant his church its full independence (called autocephaly
in ecclesiastical language).
Fine, but what is 'his church'? The vast majority of Ukrainian Orthodox Christians and their bishops are content with their status
within the Russian Church. They have their own head, His Beatitude Metropolitan Onuphrius, who is also content with his position.
They do not see any need for autocephaly. However, the Ukraine has two small splinter orthodox churches, one led by the ambitious
bishop Filaret and another by Macarius; both are very nationalist and anti-Russian, both support the regime and claim for autonomy,
both are considered illegitimate by the rest of the Orthodox world. These two small churches are potential embryos of a future Ukrainian
Church of President Poroshenko.
Now we shall turn to Bartholomew. His title describes him as the patriarch of Constantinople, but in vain you will seek this city
on a map. Constantinople, the Christian capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, the greatest city of his time, the seat of Roman emperors,
was conquered by the Ottoman Turks in 1453 and became Islamic Istanbul, the capital of the Ottoman Empire and of the last Muslim
Caliphate; since 1920 it has been a city in the Republic of Turkey. The Constantinople Patriarchate is a phantom fossil of a great
past; it has a few churches, a monastery and a few ambitious monks located in Phanar, an old Greek quarter of Istanbul.
The Turkish government considers Bartholomew a bishop of the local Greeks, denying his 6 th -century title of Ecumenical
Patriarch. There are only three thousand Greeks in the city, so Bartholomew has very small foothold there indeed. His patriarchate
is a phantom in the world of phantoms, such as the Knights of Maltese and Temple Orders, Kings of Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia, emperors
of Brazil and of the Holy Roman Empire Phantom is not a swear word. Phantoms are loved by romantics enamoured by old rituals and
uniforms with golden aiguillettes. These honourable gentlemen represent nobody, they have no authority, but they can and do issue
impressive-looking certificates.
ORDER IT NOW
The Orthodox Church differs from its Roman Catholic sister by having no central figure like the Pope of Rome. The Orthodox have
a few equal-ranking heads of national churches, called Patriarchs or Popes. The Patriarch of Constantinople is one of these fourteen
church leaders, though he has more than his share of respect by virtue of tradition. Now the Phantom of Phanar seeks to make his
position much more powerful, akin to that of the Pope of Rome for the Western Church. His organization
claims that "The Ecumenical Patriarchate has the
responsibility of being the Church of final appeal in Orthodoxy, and it is the only Church that may establish autocephalous and autonomous
Churches". These claims are rejected by the Russian Church, by far the biggest Orthodox Church in the world.
As the Ukrainian church is a part of the Russian Church, it could seek its full independence (autocephaly) in Moscow, but it has
no such wish. The two small splinter churches turned to Phanar, and the Phanar leader was more than happy to get into the game. He
had sent two of his bishops to Kiev and started with establishing a united Ukrainian church. This church wouldn't be independent,
or autocephalous; it would be a church under the direct rule of Phanar, an autonomous or the stavropegial church. For Ukrainian
nationalists, it would be a sad reminder that they have the choice to go with Moscow or with Istanbul, now as their ancestors had
four hundred years ago. Full independence is not on the cards.
For the Phanar, it was not a first foray into Russian territory: Bartholomew also used the anti-Russian sentiments of Tallinn
and took a part of the Estonian churches and their faithful under his rule. However, then the Russians took it easy, for two reasons.
Estonia is small, there are not too many churches nor congregants; and besides, the Phanar had taken some positions in Estonia between
the wars, when Soviet Russia did not care much about the Church. The Ukraine is absolutely different. It is very big, it is the heart
of Russian church, and Constantinople has no valid claim on it.
The Russians say that President Poroshenko bribed Bartholomew. This is nonsense of very low grade; even if the Patriarch is not
averse to accepting gifts. Bartholomew had a very valid reason to accept Poroshenko's offer. If he would realize his plan and establish
a church of Ukraine under his own rule, call it autonomous or stavropegial or even autocephalous, he would cease being a phantom
and would become a very real church leader with millions of faithful. The Ukraine is second only to Russia in the Orthodox world,
and its coming under Constantinople would allow Bartholomew to become the most-powerful Orthodox leader.
The Russians are to blame themselves for much of their difficulties. They were too eager to accept the Phanar Phantom for the
real thing in their insistent drive for external approval and recognition. They could have forgotten about him three hundred years
ago instead of seeking his confirmation now and then. It is dangerous to submit to the weak; perhaps it is more risky than to submit
to the strong.
This reminds me of a rather forgotten novel by H. G. Wells
The Food of the Gods and How It Came to Earth . It is a story of a wondrous nourishment that allows children to grow into
forty-foot-high giants. Society mistreats the young titans. In a particularly powerful episode, a mean old hag scolds the tall kids
– thrice her size, and they timidly accept her silly orders. In the end, the giants succeed in standing their ground, throw off the
yoke and walk tall. Wells writes about "young giants, huge and beautiful, glittering in their mail, amidst the preparations for the
morrow. The sight of them lifted his heart. They were so easily powerful! They were so tall and gracious! They were so steadfast
in their movements!"
Russia is a young giant that tries to observe the pygmy-established rules. International organisation called PACE (The Parliamentary
Assembly of the Council of Europe) where Russia is harshly mistreated and is not even allowed to defend itself, is a good example.
International courts where Russia has little chance to stand its ground is another one. President Trump has taken the US out of a
few international organisations, though the US has huge weight in international affairs and all states pay heed to the US position.
Russia's voice is not even heard, and only now the Russians begin to ponder the advantages of Ruxit.
The church rules are equally biased as they place the biggest Orthodox state with millions of faithful Christians on the same
footing as Oriental phantoms.
In the days of the Ottoman Empire, the Patriarch of Constantinople had real weight. The Sultan defended his position, his decisions
had legal implications for the Orthodox subjects of the Empire. He caused many troubles for the Russian Church, but the Russians
had to observe his decrees as he was an imperial official. After Ataturk's revolution, the Patriarch lost his status, but the Russian
church, this young giant, continued to revere him and support him. After 1991, when Russia had turned to its once-neglected church,
the Russian Church multiplied its generosity towards Phanar and turned to him for guidance, for the Moscow Church had been confused
and unprepared for its new position. Being in doubt, it turned to tradition. We can compare this to the English "rotten boroughs"
of Dickens novels, towns that had traditionally sent their representatives to the Parliament though they scarcely had any dwellers.
In this search for tradition, the Russian church united with the Russian Church abroad, the émigré structure with its checkered
history that included support for Hitler. Its main contribution was fierce anti-Communism and rejection of the Soviet period of the
Russian past. However it could be justified by the Russians' desire to heal the White vs. Red split and restore the émigrés to the
Russian people. While honouring the Phanar Phantom as the honorary head of the Orthodox world had no justification at all.
The Phanar had US State Department backing to consider. US diplomacy has had a good hand in dealings with phantoms: for many years
Washington supported phantom governments-in-exile of the Baltic states, and this support was paid back a hundredfold in 1991. Now,
the US support for Phanar has paid back well in this renewed attack on Russia.
ORDER IT NOW
The Patriarch of Phanar, perhaps, underestimated possible Russian response to his Ukrainian meddling. He got used to Russian good
treatment; he remembered that the Russians meekly accepted his takeover of the Estonian church. Being encouraged by the US and driven
by his own ambitions, he made the radical step of voiding Constantinople's agreement of transfer of Kiev Metropolitan seat to Moscow,
had sent his bishops and took over the Ukraine to himself.
The Moscow Church anathemised Bartholomew, and forbade its priests to participate in service with Phanar priests and (!!!) with
priests that accept Phanar priests. While ending communion with Phanar is no pain at all, the secondary step – of ending communion
with the churches that refuse to excommunicate Phanar – is a very radical one. Other Orthodox churches are unhappy about Phanar moves.
They are aware that Phanar's new rules may threaten them, too. They are not keen to establish a Pope above themselves. But I doubt
they are ready to excommunicate Phanar.
The Russian church can take a less radical and more profitable way. The Orthodox world's unity is based on two separate principles.
One, the Eucharist. All Orthodox churches are united in the communion. Their priests can serve together and accept communion in any
recognised church. Two, the principle of canonical territory
. No church should appoint bishops on the other church's territory.
Phanar transgressed against the territorial principle. In response, the Russian Church excommunicated him. But Phanar refused
to excommunicate the Russians. As the result, the Russians are forbidden by their own church to accept communion if excommunicated
priests participate in the service. But the priests of the Church of Jerusalem do not ban anybody, neither Russians, no Phanariots.
As it happened with Russian counter-sanctions, they cause harm and pain mainly to Russians themselves. There are few Orthodox
pilgrims visiting Russia, while there are many Russian pilgrims visiting the Holy Land, Mount Athos and other important sites of
Greece, Turkey and Palestine, first of all Jerusalem and Bethlehem. Now these pilgrims won't be able to receive the holy communion
in the Holy Sepulchre and in the Nativity Cathedral, while Russian priests won't be able to celebrate mass in these churches.
The Russian priests will probably suffer and submit, while the lay pilgrims will probably break the prohibition and accept the
Eucharist in the Church of Jerusalem.
It would be better if the Russian church were to deal with Phanar's treachery on the reciprocity basis. Phanar does not excommunicate
Russians, and Russians may go back to full communion with Phanar. Phanar broke the territorial principle, and the Russians may disregard
territorial principle. Since the 20th century, canonical territory has increasingly become a violated principle of canon law, says
OrthodoxWiki . Facing such major transgression, the Russians
may completely drop the territorial principle and send their bishops to Constantinople and Jerusalem, to Rome and Washington, while
keeping all Orthodox churches in full communion.
The Russian church will be able to spread the Orthodox faith all over the world, among the French in France, among the Italians
in Italy, among Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs. The Russian church dos not allow women into priesthood, does not allow gay unions,
does not consider the Jews its elder brothers, does not tolerate homosexual priests and allows its priests to marry. Perhaps it has
a good chance to compete with other churches for the flock and clergy.
Thus Moscow Church will be free of tenets it voluntarily accepted. Regarding communion, the Russian church can retain communion
with Phanar and Jerusalem and with other Orthodox churches, even with splinter churches on reciprocity basis. Moreover, the Russian
Church may allow communion with Catholics. At present, Catholics allow Russians to receive communion, but the Russian Church do not
allow their flock to accept Catholic communion and does not allow Catholics to receive communion in Russian churches. With all the
differences between the churches, we the Christians can share communion, flesh and blood of our Saviour, and this all we need.
All this is extremely relevant for the Holy Land. The Patriarch of Jerusalem, His Beatitude Theophilos does not want to quarrel
with Constantinople nor with Moscow. He won't excommunicate the priests of Phanar despite Moscow's requests, and I think he is right.
Ban on communion in the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem or in the Nativity of Bethlehem would become a heavy unnecessary and self-inflicted
punishment for Russian pilgrims. That is why it makes sense to retain joint communion, while voiding the territorial principle.
Russian church may nominate its bishops in Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Nazareth to attract the flock presently neglected by the traditional
Patriarchate of Jerusalem. I mean the Palestinian Christians and Israeli Christians, hundreds of thousands of them.
The Church of Jerusalem is, and had been ruled by ethnic Greeks since the city was conquered by the Ottomans in 16th century.
The Turks removed local Arab Orthodox clerics and appointed their loyal Greeks. Centuries passed by, the Turks are gone, the Greeks
are loyal only to themselves, and they do not care much about the natives. They do not allow Christian Palestinian monks to join
monasteries, they bar them from holding bishop cathedra and do not let them into the council of the church (called Synod). This flagrant
discrimination annoys Palestinian Christians; many of them turned to the Catholic, or even Protestant churches. The flock is angry
and ready to rise in revolt against the Greeks, like the Syrian Orthodox did in 1898, when they expelled the Greek bishops and elected
an Arab Patriarch of Antioch – with Russian support. (Until that time the Patriarch of Antioch had been elected in Istanbul by Phanar
monks exclusively from the "Greeks by race", as they
said in those days, and as is
the custom of the See of Jerusalem now).
Last Christmas, the Patriarch of Jerusalem had been blocked from entering the Church of Nativity in Bethlehem by angry local Christians,
and only Israeli army allowed him to get in. If the Russian Church will establish its bishops in the Holy Land, or even appoint her
own Patriarch of Rum (traditional name of the Church) many churches of the Holy Land will accept him, and many faithful will find
the church that they can relate to. For the Greek leadership of the Jerusalem church is interested in pilgrimage churches only; they
care for pilgrims from Greece and for Greeks in the Holy Land.
ORDER IT NOW
There are many Russian Orthodox in Israel; the Greeks of the Church do not attend to their needs. Since 1948, not a single new
church had been built by the Orthodox in Israel. Big cities with many Christians – Beer Sheba, Afula, touristy Eilat – have no churches
at all. For sure, we can partly blame Israeli authorities and their hatred of Christianity. However, the Church of Jerusalem is not
trying hard enough to erect new churches.
There is a million of immigrants from Russia in Israel. Some of them were Christians, some want to enter the church, being disappointed
by brutal and hostile Judaism. They had some romantic image of the Jewish faith, being brought up in atheist USSR, but the reality
was not even similar. Not only them; Israelis of every origin are unhappy with Judaism that exists now in Israel. They are ready
for Christ. A new church of the Holy Land established by Russians can bring Israelis, Jews and non-Jews, native Palestinians and
immigrants to Christ.
Thus Phanar's rejection of territorialism can be used for the greater glory of the Church. Yes, the Russian church will change
its character and assume some of global, ecumenical function. This is big challenge; I do not know whether the Russians are ready
for it, whether the Patriarch of Moscow Kyril is daring enough for it.
His Church is rather timid; the bishops do not express their views in public. However, a Moscow priest Fr Vsevolod Chaplin, who
was close to the Patriarch until recently, publicly called for full reformatting of the Orthodox Christianity, for getting rid of
rotten boroughs and phantoms, for establishing sturdy connection between laity and Patriarchate. Without great push by the incautious
Patriarch Bartholomew, these ideas could gestate for years; now they can come forth and change the face of the faith.
Constantinople, the Christian capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, the greatest city of his time, the seat of Roman emperors,
was conquered by the Ottoman Turks in 145 2
According to Wiki:
The Fall of Constantinople was the capture of the capital of the Byzantine Empire by an invading Ottoman army on 29 May
145 3 .
@geokat62 First, using Wikipedia as a
reference source is rather déclassé. You are right, however–Wikipedia is right, however–Constantinople did fall in 1493 and Mr.
Shamir was wrong. However, as the title of The Cambridge History of the Byzantine Empire c.500-1492 (sic) tells, the empire
was gone in 1492. We all make mistakes and a few months' difference in events that happened over 500 years ago seems of little
significance. That you needed to bring it to our attention has far more significance to me.
Well now we have the second installment of the Great Orthodox Schism Controversy
I must say that Shamir does spin a rather lively story here rather more gripping than Saker's sombre monograph of a few weeks
ago
One is tantalized by images of dancing Israelis who are 'ready for Christ' and French and Italians converting en masse to Orthodoxy
[what with all the advantages outlined here by Shamir, I must admit it does sound rather attractive, for anyone thinking of 'trading
in' so to speak...]
A possible 'takeover' of the Patriarchate of Rum [will they add Coke...?] the possibilities are endless
'A new church of the Holy Land established by Russians can bring Israelis, Jews and non-Jews, native Palestinians and immigrants
to Christ.'
I usually like Shamir's writings but this article clearly shows up his shortcomings on this particular subject. He treats the
whole affair as if it is a business deal and then tallies up the pluses and the minuses for the Russian Orthodox church. He forgets
that the Russian church was massively persecuted and that for them doing the correct thing in God's site is the only thing.
The spacious country with its hard-working people, fertile black soil, the cream of Soviet industry producing aircraft,
missiles, trains and tractors, with the best and largest army within the Warsaw Treaty, with its universities, good roads,
proximity to Europe, expensive infrastructure connecting East and West, the Ukraine had a much better chances for success than
rump Russia.
Soviet-era industries couldn't compete in the modern capitalist economy, and were destined to die. Post-communist Ukraine had
no capable class of entrepreneurs, its univercities couldn't meet the demands of the market economy, Ukrainian workers lacked
marketable skills. It was a recipe for failure. Russia had all the same problems of course, but it also retained its vast reserves
of oil and gas
" The Russian Church will suffer a great loss, comparable to the emergence of the Anglican church for the Catholics. "
The loss of the catholic church because of the Anglican church indeed was horrible, financially.
Not just catholic priests in England suffered, archbishops on the continent, of British sees, who had never been in England, suffered
enormously.
While I respect and generally enjoy Shamir's intellect and writing skills, in this topic he is completely out of his depth. He
recommends actions which would totally destroy Christ's Church on earth, deforming it into a mere worldly contestant for the praise
of men.
The one true Church is not an episode in political gamesmanship–regardless how heretical bishops may behave from time to time–but
Shamir only relates to it in terms of what behaviors would yield the greatest worldly satisfaction in political power. This is
the fatal road the Roman church went down (labeled with the year 1054) when their mere bishop decided he needs to be the Pope
of the entire world and so broke communion and excommunicated the rest of the Church (which remained Orthodox). The papacy then
went on to a successful pursuit of worldly power through the sword that continues to this day. Restore communion with the Roman
pope??? Is Shamir crazy??? Each pope puts himself in the place of Christ (antichrist), and true Orthodox will never have Eucharist
with that.
Russia's mistake and the mistake of the rest of Orthodoxy is to have gone along with Constantinople (out of brotherly love
and respect for Tradition) for the past 100 years of her micro-heresies. The First and Most Egregious action by Constantinople
was to exploit the bloody Soviet persecution of the Church in Russia to declare that the rest of the Orthodox world must switch
from the Church calendar to the secular, civil calendar devised by the Latins. This was the kickoff of a chain of heretical actions
which are continuing throughout the world, to the extent that now so-called churches contemplate legitimizing women priests, sodomy,
pedophilia, and turning the Eucharist into a cafeteria.
The USA is 100% actively behind the actions in Ukraine and the Phanar. In fact no one can be enthroned in Constantinople without
the sponsorship of the CIA. So this arch-heretic Bartholomew of the Phanar "elevates" an excommunicated prideful heretic, Philaret,
to be the "head" a new "orthodox church in Ukraine." This is the empire seeking to destroy the strength of Russia, which is Orthodoxy.
The Evil wants to turn Orthodoxy into a beautiful whitewashed tomb: resplendent cathedrals, sumptuous robes, exalted chanting,
artful icons, politically correct bishops. But inside it will be full of dead men's bones.
" The Russian Church will suffer a great loss, comparable to the emergence of the Anglican church for the Catholics. "
The loss of the catholic church because of the Anglican church indeed was horrible, financially.
Not just catholic priests in England suffered, archbishops on the continent, of British sees, who had never been in England, suffered
enormously.
While I respect and generally enjoy Shamir's intellect and writing skills, in this topic he is completely out of his depth. He
recommends actions which would totally destroy Christ's Church on earth, deforming it into a mere worldly contestant for the praise
of men.
The one true Church is not an episode in political gamesmanship -- regardless how heretical bishops may behave from time to time–but
Shamir only relates to it in terms of what behaviors would yield the greatest worldly satisfaction in political power. This is
the fatal road the Roman church went down (labeled with the year 1054) when their mere bishop decided he needs to be the Pope
of the entire world and so broke communion and excommunicated the rest of the Church (which remained Orthodox).
The papacy then
went on to a successful pursuit of worldly power through the sword that continues to this day. Restore communion with the Roman
pope??? Is Shamir crazy??? Each pope puts himself in the place of Christ (antichrist), and true Orthodox will never have Eucharist
with that.
Russia's mistake and the mistake of the rest of Orthodoxy is to have gone along with Constantinople (out of brotherly love
and respect for Tradition) for the past 100 years of her micro-heresies. The First and Most Egregious action by Constantinople
was to exploit the bloody Soviet persecution of the Church in Russia to declare that the rest of the Orthodox world must switch
from the Church calendar to the secular, civil calendar devised by the Latins. This was the kickoff of a chain of heretical actions
which are continuing throughout the world, to the extent that now so-called churches contemplate legitimizing women priests, sodomy,
pedophilia, and turning the Eucharist into a cafeteria.
The USA is 100% actively behind the actions in Ukraine and the Phanar. In fact no one can be enthroned in Constantinople without
the sponsorship of the CIA. So this arch-heretic Bartholomew of the Phanar "elevates" an excommunicated prideful heretic, Philaret,
to be the "head" a new "orthodox church in Ukraine." This is the empire seeking to destroy the strength of Russia, which is Orthodoxy.
The Evil wants to turn Orthodoxy into a beautiful whitewashed tomb: resplendent cathedrals, sumptuous robes, exalted chanting,
artful icons, politically correct bishops. But inside it will be full of dead men's bones.
Very thoughtful article. While the brilliant conclusion that there could be advantages in abandoning the territorial principle
in Orthodoxy might offer some hope to the incoherent situation in the American Church, on the other hand letting go of territoriality
sacrifices regionalism for globalism. So is this a great opportunity or an execration? That would depend on whether the Patriarchs
are intent on building Christ's Kingdom, or their own.
Looks like a desperate attempt of Poroshenko to save his scalp. And pay of EU and the USA hostility toward Russia for
his own political ends. But Timoshenko is shrewd enough and politically powerful enough to block any attempt to postpone
Presidential elections.
Notable quotes:
"... I believe this was a preplanned Ukrainian provocation to garner international support in her effort to get unfettered passage through the Kerch Strait. Russia has been increasing her inspections of ships transiting the Strait this year. That is Russia's right under the 2003 agreement, international and maritime laws. ..."
"... With Poroshenko polling at 8% for the election in 2 months it is very convenient to use any excuse to declare martial law and postpone the election. ..."
"... In any case the "Russia, Russia evil" crowd in the west will find this another opportunity to create more hysteria and take actions to "punish" Russia. ..."
"... Eversince fall of USSR a bunch of crazy neocon warmongers our running US/western foreign policy. ..."
"... about the prospects for Ukraine electing a government willing to negotiate with Russia ..."
"... Probability of that is approaching zero. US will not allow this anyway even if to imagine that such prospects do exist. In fact, this latest provocation could be, as one of the commenters at Unz short time ago astutely observed, an attempt by Trump to avoid meeting with Putin at G-20. Realistically speaking, at this stage there is really nothing to talk about between the US and Russia. ..."
"... Madame Nuland and her erstwhile cabal of neo-cons might have given some thought to such unpredictable eventualities when we were pouring the big dough into the Ukraine to effect regime change in a country that we may be sure she knew next to nothing about in actuality. ..."
"... this was a political provocation to support the introduction of martial law in Ukraine - apparently to help Poroshenko stay in office ..."
"... the only casualty was a crew member on one of the Ukraine vessels shot by the captain when the crew member refused orders to open fire on a Russian vessel.. ..."
"... Here is the latest from The Saker, who thinks that it's also about Ukrainian politics and the upcoming election there. This is hardly news to anyone that has been following this. Poroshenko is in a very bad position and is forced by circumstances to act, even if rashly, since he faces probable prosecution for corruption if he loses, which is a foregone conclusion given the numbers. ..."
"... Oh, and Ukraine desperately, desperately needs to change the subject. The Nuland Experiment (a great movie title) has failed miserably and is about to be turned over like a rock and the slimy creatures are going to come pouring forth. Europe is very much coming around to the belief that they want nothing to do with Ukraine, but this "event" put NATO into the conversation, and NATO is the big one. "Ukraine needs to be part of NATO!" ..."
I don't know about that. The whole thing was about martial law--Poroshenko barely clings
to power--and he got it now. Any provocation in Azov Sea will be met fully within
appropriate protocols (namely Law on the State Border) and ROE of other forces, so
militarily speaking there was nothing extraordinary. I really doubt this version with
SADM--comes across as a complete baloney.
I agree the SADM story is more likely just a crazy conspiracy theory. The commenter could
even be a Russian or Russian supporter trying to muddy the waters on his own, painting
the Ukrainians as full on crazies.I believe this was a preplanned Ukrainian provocation
to garner international support in her effort to get unfettered passage through the Kerch
Strait. Russia has been increasing her inspections of ships transiting the Strait this
year. That is Russia's right under the 2003 agreement, international and maritime laws.
Actually, there is a case to be made (obviously without any conspiracy theories) of
mind-boggling stupidity of contemporary Ukraine's "elites". This is even apart from sheer
military incompetence.
Ukraine already has unfettered access through Kerch beyond usual protocol and procedures,
they have even admitted so before with their Ships making the transit... You are correct as per the Agreements, but one could not expect to ignore such
Procedures even with allied States, let alone one that supposedly is 'at war' with
With Poroshenko polling at 8% for the election in 2 months it is very convenient to use
any excuse to declare martial law and postpone the election. Would be interesting to see
how his political opponents respond. In any case the "Russia, Russia evil" crowd in the
west will find this another opportunity to create more hysteria and take actions to
"punish" Russia.
After the 2014 coup do you believe or do you consider Ukraine to be (politically) a
failed state.
Good of Russia for sake of world to stand up to westerners push and provocations. Eversince fall of USSR a bunch of crazy neocon warmongers our running
US/western foreign policy. Good to see Russia under Putin, has woke up to the reality
that she can't have a friend (partner) in the west, unless she agrees to become a
subservient to the interests of the US/West
If the Ukrainians (goaded on by some NATO nutjob) really wanted to destroy the bridge,
they would try their level best to make it look like some 'patriot' living under the yoke
of Russian oppression in Crimea damaged the bridge. The last thing they would do is
create a clear link to a Ukrainian military vessel.
Do you have anything to say about the prospects for Ukraine electing a government willing
to negotiate with Russia? I don't think the last few years have been all that good for
the average Ukrainian.
about the prospects for Ukraine electing a government willing to negotiate with
Russia
Probability of that is approaching zero. US will not allow this anyway even if to
imagine that such prospects do exist. In fact, this latest provocation could be, as one
of the commenters at Unz short time ago astutely observed, an attempt by Trump to avoid
meeting with Putin at G-20. Realistically speaking, at this stage there is really nothing
to talk about between the US and Russia.
One would have to be certifiable to believe that an attack on that bridge would not
trigger an overwhelming military attack by Russia on the Ukraine. This would not be
"brinkmanship." This would be insane. Maybe there is some insanity lurking in the halls
of power in the Ukraine, would anyone be surprised. Maybe there is some insanity lurking
closer to home. The temperament of John Brennan on recent display deoesn't exactly
inspire much confidence.
Madame Nuland and her erstwhile cabal of neo-cons might have given some thought to such
unpredictable eventualities when we were pouring the big dough into the Ukraine to effect
regime change in a country that we may be sure she knew next to nothing about in
actuality. No, Madame, we are not all Ukrainians now, nor, God willing, will we ever be.
These dingbats put one in mind of Charlie Chaplin blithly bouncing the globe about over
his head and doing his best to stay beneath it.
Did these so called area experts down there in la la land really think that Russia would
see Sevastopol made a port of call for NATO without so much as a whimper? I sometimes
wonder whether a single person sitting around the big table said, "you know, maybe
overthrowing the government of the Ukraine is not such a great idea, it being so close to
Russia, and all..."
You can't hide the radioactive residue of a nuclear detonation, no matter how small. They
also have a characteristic fingerprint that will be identifiable. Therefor using one
starts WWIII.
That's not to say someone didn't think it would be clever to provoke the Russians into
acting to make them look like an aggressor. Or perhaps to gauge their intelligence
penetration of NATO and or Ukrainian operations...
For some time now I've been of the opinion that there are great many fools who really
want a hot war with Russia.
I just finished watching the "The Unknown War", the Russian equivalent of the BBC's
"The World At War" series on WWII. Both were made in the 1970's while most of the
survivors were still alive to tell their tales. It would seem they have been ignored by
those who most need to see them...
Colonel Cassad's website suggests this was a political provocation to support the
introduction of martial law in Ukraine - apparently to help Poroshenko stay in office. It
also cites a report that the only casualty was a crew member on one of the Ukraine
vessels shot by the captain when the crew member refused orders to open fire on a Russian
vessel..
This seems to make more sense, without the drama of a small nuke.
The Vineyard of the Saker
Kerch Provocation – Causes and Consequences
http://thesaker.is/kerch-pr...
Rostislav Ishchenko
Translated by Ollie Richardson and Angelina Siard
Update:
Here is the latest from The Saker, who thinks that it's also about Ukrainian politics
and the upcoming election there. This is hardly news to anyone that has been following
this. Poroshenko is in a very bad position and is forced by circumstances to act, even if
rashly, since he faces probable prosecution for corruption if he loses, which is a
foregone conclusion given the numbers.
Baloney? In the first place, very economical. You're British Special Forces. You've
studied how to get the bridge down and stay down. This was the only choice that was
deliverable without fingerprints. A tugboat forsooth. And, btw, in the video that has
sound, someone is really screaming and yelling in panic mode, I suspect it is the captain
of the tug. Would you scream and yell if you were carrying a SADM and a Russian warship
was about to ram you? Oh, and who would they blame? Iran. Simple. Why? Because it's Iran.
Russia doesn't react hard unless there's something there. And they have really, really
good intelligence, I'm convinced of it. And who would plant this story, which, with the
exception of the nuclear dimension of the weapon, is trivially believable.
Oh, and Ukraine desperately, desperately needs to change the subject. The Nuland
Experiment (a great movie title) has failed miserably and is about to be turned over like
a rock and the slimy creatures are going to come pouring forth. Europe is very much
coming around to the belief that they want nothing to do with Ukraine, but this "event"
put NATO into the conversation, and NATO is the big one. "Ukraine needs to be part of
NATO!"
if the tug was captured, and a SADM is involved, has it fallen into Russian hands?
Off topic, TTG. If you have not read The Riddle of the Sands by Erskine Childers,
please read it now. It was published in 1903 and is considered to be the first spy novel.
It takes place in a sailboat. I have read it well over ten times. On any list of the five
best novels, it must appear.
I do not understand why we and others send enough to hearten the Ukrainians and the
surrounding NATO countries but not enough to make a difference should serious hostilities
break out. For PR or for real?
"I am sure Western patrons of the Kiev regime are behind this provocation - it doesn't
look a mere coincidence that European and American politicians have been so concerned over
the situation in the Sea of Azov in the recent months. Ukraine, as a country stripped of
sovereignty and being under external governance , is an instrument for whipping up
international tensions."
His description of what sort of "state" Ukraine's become is 100% spot-on, and Canthama's
description of conditions for civilians is also correct. Many towns have had gas supplies cut
off completely in what's known as Warming Season, and their citizens are
literally freezing .
As for the upcoming G-20, the spectacle of MbS confronting Erdogan outshines any
Putin-Trump sideline meet, IMO. Indeed, there really isn't any reason for Trump to even show,
except maybe as the referee between an bin-Salman/Erodogan wrestling match.
Add to the shutdown of natural gas supplies to towns and cities around Ukraine (with the
consequent closure of schools, universities and even hospitals) the possible shutdown of
water supplies and the looming collapse of water pipeline and sanitation infrastructure. https://ria.ru/world/20181120/1533162137.html?referrer_block=index_most_popular_5
Ordinary people not just facing starvation and freezing but also the lack of clean
drinking water.
Russia
says You'd better think twice . The Azov provocation and increased Donbas shelling were
planned to coincide. As Jen @24 adds, the situation there is indeed dire for commonfolk.
However, Ukies tire of waiting and
want war to result.
Perhaps Porky (or his handlers) concluded that he needs martial law to keep the people down
maintain power, but he wouldn't be doing himself any favors my admitting it outright.
Instigating a provocation with Russia would give him the excuse he needs.
Timothy Hagios @ 31: The declaration of martial law (with no end date) means that
Presidential elections in 2019, which Porky Pig would be certain to lose to the equally
loathsome Yulia Tymoshenko, can be deferred indefinitely. Must be tempting for Porky Pig to
approve that.
Re: @32, Actually comparing this event to the 2009 Russian-Georgian seems quite appropriate,
just like Georgia, Kiev launched an attack on territory protected by Russian servicemen and
Kiev got a bit of a whipping. now lets see if Kiev doubles down like Georgia and makes
everything worse for itself, will we soon see Poroshenko eating his own tie on live
television, time will tell!
Just now, at the meeting of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, President
of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko made a proposal to impose martial law in the country. Today it
will be considered (and most likely accepted) at an emergency meeting of the Verkhovna Rada.
Source
Anticipating his obvious loss in the upcoming presidential election, Poroshenko (read, war
criminal) decided to make a reckless and dangerous provocation in the Black Sea and thereby
get a "legal basis" for the introduction of martial law in the country, in which any
elections are canceled.
The provocation suits the suits in the amerikan war machine, plus it helps Porky to stay in
power by giving him an excuse and apparently a legal out to suspend elections. WTF writes
these new improved constitutions? When a jumped up sad sack of a pol pushes martial law on
the people, that is exactly the time the scuzzbag should be made to be accountable to them. A
bit more of declare martial law and all bets are off, you gotta get re-approved and there
would be much less of these weak, lame and totally unnecessary push comes to shove dust-ups
in the ally out back. amerika who claims to be just 'holding Porky's coat' will be tossing
out barbs right left and center to keep the pot boiling.
See France over the weekend. That country needs an early election now, Macron imagines he
will be able to just 'tough it out' against the expressed wishes of the population, in the
process overturning 250 years of political tradition which began with the fall of the
Bastille, through the Paris commune and the 1968 Paris insurrection. An accepted part of
french politics has been the right for people to show their dissatisfaction if a slimy pol
exceeds their mandate.
He will discover how wrong he is, as even those who don't object to massive cuts in public
spending, tax relief for the elite whilst hitting Joe/Jo Sh1tkicker with the heaviest taxes
and charges in the EU, are seeing that destroying the rights of people to oppose tyranny
bodes badly. Why, in no time at all the French will be as buggered as the englanders already
are.
Heheh so much for for MUKGA (making the empire great again) thru brexit, Terri May has
just given Gibraltar back to the olive oil merchants. The englanders have clung grimly to
that rock after stealing it in 1713. Imagine the situation at the Sea of Azov magnified about
1000 times, the englanders used their unjustifiable occupation to exert absolute control over
all movement between the mediterranean and the atlantic oceans for 300 years, I betcha May's
hero Churchill wouldn't be too impressed with that heheheh.
Another week of watching a slo mo train wreck eh.
says: November 24, 2018 at 5:38 pm
GMT 100 Words @Big Bill They fought that it
was Russia, that was holding them back, and by separating they could quickly achieve Western
European standard of living. The first guy to become president of independent Ukraine promised
people that they were going to "live like France" .in 5 years (!). lol
So their plan was something like this:
step 1: Separate from Russia.
step 2:
step 3: France
Lately, they began to think that the Ukraine's path to prosperity goes through EU
membership, hence popular support for Euromaidan, and you know the results Phanar Phantom
You're full of shit what the heck do you know about industry you useless little fart ?
are you an industrial engineer do you have any technical qualifications whatsoever or do
you just pull buzzwords like 'marketable skills' out your wazoo, as needed ?
Your industries are worth ZERO, if you're unable to sell your products, and the Ukraine
struggled to sell its manufactured goods after 1991. Its traditional customer – Russia
began to import Western goods.
You sound like Martyanov. lol It doesn't take any "special qualification" to figure out
that Soviet-era factories were churning out worthless crap – there is a reason why that
system fell apart, you know.
@Felix
Keverich Thanks for confirming that you have zero credentials in any technical field yet
you are somehow posing as someone qualified to talk about industry
Glad you are blocking me you little worm the Ostrich response do you cover your eyes and
ears when your teacher or parent [or caregiver, since you are obviously retarded] says
something that is true but which you don't want to hear ?
As for Soviet era factories churning out 'worthless crap' that would include the world's
best rocket engines, decades ahead of the west's technology ?
@Felix
Keverich Liberast opinion. People with this views destroyed the country, caused massive
displacement and demographic and social catastrophes. People with your views should not be
allowed to the levers of power for the distance of avangard shot. If to follow your logic USA
and China must dismantle and sell as scrap metal their MIC as they both clearly cannot
compete with Russian MIC. National manufacturing of everything is not about competition. It
is about souverenity in everything and national capability to provide own population both
with goods and means to make a living via manufacturing of everything needed. Current
situation with so much of everything made in China is an abomination that hurts too much
people around the globe. People with your views in Russia should be purged and preferably
executed for crimes against former Soviet people.
I find it strange that shamir who professes communist views is paying so much attention to
this basically religious spat about power and money. Wasn't it once th as t that religion is
opium for masses. It is here to keep population down so that it is easily fleeced by thieves.
The only value for Russia in orthodoxy at the moment is that the country completely devote of
ideology as per constitution there must be something to hold people together and give some
meaning to their existence.
"... It lists Bellingcat and the Atlantic Council as "partner organisations" ..."
"... "The UK's Secret Intelligence Service, otherwise known as MI6, has been scrambling to prevent President Trump from publishing classified materials linked to the Russian election meddling investigation. ... much of the espionage performed on the Trump campaign was conducted on UK soil throughout 2016." ..."
"... "Gregory R. Copley, editor and publisher of Defense & Foreign Affairs, posited that Sergei Skripal is the unnamed Russian intelligence source in the Steele dossier. ... In Skripal's pseudo-country-gentleman retirement, the ex-GRU-MI6 double agent was selling custom-made "Russian intelligence"; he had fabricated "material" that went into the Steele dossier..." ..."
"... this movement in the west by gov'ts to pay for generating lies, hate and propaganda towards russia is really sick... it is perfect for the military industrial complex corporations though and they seem to be calling the shots in the west, much more so then the voice of the ordinary person who is not interested in war ..."
"... Seems to me that this shows the primacy of the City of London, with its offshore network of illicit capital accumulation, within Britain. It is a state within a state or even a financial empire within a state, which, for deep historical reasons isn't subject to the same laws as the rest of the UK. ..."
"... The UK's pathological obsession with Russia only makes sense to me as the city's insistence on continued 90s style appropriation of Russia's wealth ..."
"... British hypocrisy publicly called out. How this all unravels is one to watch. Extra large popcorn and soda for me ..."
"... It seems to me that the UK has far more to lose from doxxing than Russia does. The interference in sovereign allied states to 'manage' who the UK thinks they should appoint does not bode well for such relations ..."
"... A separate subcluster of so-called journalists names Deborah Haynes, David Aaronovitch of the London Times and Neil Buckley from the FT." Subcluster. Love it. Just how crap do you have to be to fail to make it to membership of a full cluster of smear merchants? ..."
"... I doubt very seriously that the British launched this operation without the CIA's implicit and explicit support. This has all the markings of a John Brennan operation that has been launched stealthily to prevent anyone from knowing its real origins. ..."
"... The Brits don't act alone, and a project of this magnitude did not begin without Langley's explicit approval. ..."
"... Now check out the wording in the above document: "Funding from institutional and national governmental sources in the US has been delayed by internal disputes within the US government, but w.e.f. March 2018 that deadlock seems to have been resolved and funding should now flow." Think about that. What would have blocked the flow of USG support for this project?? Why, the allegations of collusion against Trump, of course. Naturally, the Republicans are not going to provide money to an operation that threatens to destroy the head of their own party. So, there has been no bipartisan agreement on funding for anti-Russia propaganda ..."
"... This mob was created in the autumn of 2015, according to their site. That would have been about the time -- probably just after -- the Russians intervened in Syria. The Brits had plans for an invasion of Syria in 2009, according to their fave Guardian fish wrap. ..."
"... Pat Lang posted a report that strongly implies that charges of Russian influence on Trump are a deliberate falsification ..."
"... It seems quite possible that what is alleged as "Russian meddling" is actually CIA-MI6 meddling ..."
"... As I have said before, MAGA is a POLICY RESPONSE to the challenge from Russia and China. The election of a Republican faux populist was necessary and Trump, despite his many flaws, was the best candidate for the job. ..."
"... The Integrity Initiative's goal is to defend democracy against the truth about Russia. All this is so Orwellian. When will we get the Ministry of Love? ..."
"... They shot at an elephant and failed to kill it. So yes, out of the combo of frustration, resentment, and fear they hate the resurgent Russia and prefer Cold War II, and if necessary WWIII, to peaceful co-existence. Of course the usual corporate imperative (in this case weapons profiteering) reinforces the mass psychological pathology among the elites. ..."
"... The ironic thing is that Putin doesn't prefer to challenge the neoliberal globalist "order" at all, but would happily see Russia take a prominent place within it. It's the US and its UK poodle who are insisting on confrontation. ..."
"... Great article! It reminded me of what I read in George Orwell's novella "1984." He summed it all up brilliantly in nine words: "War is Peace"; "Freedom is Slavery"; "Ignorance is Strength." The three pillars of political power. ..."
"... Since UK has always blocked the "European Intelligence" initiative, on the basis of his pertenence to the "Five Eyes", and as UK is leaving the European Union, where it has always been the Troyan Horse of the US, one would think that all these people belonging to the so called "clusters" should register themselves as "foreign agents" working for UK government. ..."
British Government Runs Secret Anti-Russian Smear CampaignsSteveg , Nov 24,
2018 11:43:44 AM |
link
In 2015 the government of Britain launched a secret operation to insert anti-Russia
propaganda into the western media stream.
We have already seen
many consequences of this and similar programs which are designed to smear anyone who
does not follow the anti-Russian government lines. The 'Russian collusion' smear campaign
against Donald Trump based on the Steele dossier was also a largely British operation but
seems to be part of a different project.
The ' Integrity
Initiative ' builds 'cluster' or contact groups of trusted journalists, military
personal, academics and lobbyists within foreign countries. These people get alerts via
social media to take action when the British center perceives a need.
On June 7 it took the the Spanish cluster only a few hours to derail the appointment of
Perto Banos as the Director of the National Security Department in Spain. The cluster
determined that he had a too positive view of Russia and launched a coordinated social media
smear
campaign (pdf) against him.
The Initiative and its operations were unveiled when someone liberated some of its
documents, including its budget applications to the British Foreign Office, and
posted them under the 'Anonymous' label at cyberguerrilla.org .
The Integrity Initiative was set up in autumn 2015 by The Institute for Statecraft in
cooperation with the Free University of Brussels (VUB) to bring to the attention of
politicians, policy-makers, opinion leaders and other interested parties the threat posed
by Russia to democratic institutions in the United Kingdom, across Europe and North
America.
It lists Bellingcat and the Atlantic Council as "partner organisations" and
promises that:
Cluster members will be sent to educational sessions abroad to improve the technical
competence of the cluster to deal with disinformation and strengthen bonds in the cluster
community. [...] (Events with DFR Digital Sherlocks, Bellingcat, EuVsDisinfo, Buzzfeed,
Irex, Detector Media, Stopfake, LT MOD Stratcom – add more names and propose cluster
participants as you desire).
The Initiatives Orwellian slogan is 'Defending Democracy Against Disinformation'. It
covers European countries, the UK, the U.S. and Canada and seems to want to expand to the
Middle East.
On its About page
it claims: "We are not a government body but we do work with government departments and
agencies who share our aims." The now published budget plans show that more than 95% of the
Initiative's funding is coming directly from the British government, NATO and the U.S. State
Department. All the 'contact persons' for creating 'clusters' in foreign countries are
British embassy officers. It amounts to a foreign influence campaign by the British
government that hides behind a 'civil society' NGO.
The organisation is led by one Chris N. Donnelly who
receives (pdf) £8,100 per month for creating the smear campaign network.
To counter Russian disinformation and malign influence in Europe by: expanding the
knowledge base; harnessing existing expertise, and; establishing a network of networks of
experts, opinion formers and policy makers, to educate national audiences in the threat and
to help build national capacities to counter it .
The Initiative has a black and white view that is based on a "we are the good ones"
illusion. When "we" 'educate the public' it is legitimate work. When others do similar, it
its disinformation. That is of course not the reality. The Initiative's existence itself,
created to secretly manipulate the public, is proof that such a view is wrong.
If its work were as legit as it wants to be seen, why would the Foreign Office run it from
behind the curtain as an NGO? The Initiative is not the only such operation. It's
applications seek funding from a larger "Russian Language Strategic Communication Programme"
run by the Foreign Office.
The 2017/18 budget application sought FCO funding of £480,635. It received
£102,000 in co-funding from NATO and the Lithuanian Ministry of Defense. The 2018/19
budget application shows a
planned spending (pdf) of £1,961,000.00. The co-sponsors this year are again NATO
and the Lithuanian MoD, but
also include (pdf) the U.S. State Department with £250,000 and Facebook with
£100,000. The budget lays out a strong cooperation with the local military of each
country. It notes that NATO is also generous in financing the local clusters.
One of the liberated papers of the Initiative is a talking points memo labeled
Top 3 Deliverable for FCO (pdf):
Developing and proving the cluster concept and methodology, setting up clusters in a
range of countries with different circumstances
Making people (in Government, think tanks, military, journalists) see the big
picture, making people acknowledge that we are under concerted, deliberate hybrid attack
by Russia
Increasing the speed of response, mobilising the network to activism in pursuit of
the "golden minute"
Under top 1, setting up clusters, a subitem reads:
- Connects media with academia with policy makers with practitioners in a country to impact
on policy and society: ( Jelena Milic silencing pro-kremlin voices on Serbian TV )
Defending Democracy by silencing certain voices on public TV seems to be a
self-contradicting concept.
Another subitem notes how the Initiative secretly influences foreign governments:
We engage only very discreetly with governments, based entirely on trusted personal
contacts, specifically to ensure that they do not come to see our work as a problem, and to
try to influence them gently, as befits an independent NGO operation like ours, viz;
- Germany, via the Zentrum Liberale Moderne to the Chancellor's Office and MOD
- Netherlands, via the HCSS to the MOD
- Poland and Romania, at desk level into their MFAs via their NATO Reps
- Spain, via special advisers, into the MOD and PM's office (NB this may change very soon
with the new Government)
- Norway, via personal contacts into the MOD
- HQ NATO, via the Policy Planning Unit into the Sec Gen's office.
We have latent contacts into other governments which we will activate as needs be as the
clusters develop.
A look at the 'clusters' set up in U.S. and UK shows some prominent names.
Members of the Atlantic Council, which has a contract to
censor Facebook posts , appear on several cluster lists. The UK core cluster also
includes some prominent names like tax fraudster William Browder , the daft Atlantic Council
shill Ben Nimmo and the neo-conservative Washington Post columnist Anne Applebaum. One person
of interest is Andrew Wood who
handed the Steele 'dirty dossier' to Senator John McCain to smear Donald Trump over
alleged relations with Russia. A separate subcluster of so-called journalists names Deborah
Haynes, David Aaronovitch of the London Times, Neil Buckley from the FT and Jonathan Marcus
of the BBC.
A ' Cluster
Roundup ' (pdf) from July 2018 details its activities in at least 35 countries. Another
file reveals (pdf) the local
partnering institutions and individuals involved in the programs.
The Initiatives Guide
to Countering Russian Information (pdf) is a rather funny read. It lists the downing of
flight MH 17 by a Ukranian BUK missile, the fake chemical incident in Khan Sheikhoun and the
Skripal Affair as examples for "Russian disinformation". But at least two of these events,
Khan Sheikun via the UK run White Helmets and the Skripal affair, are evidently products of
British intelligence disinformation operations.
The probably most interesting papers of the whole stash is the 'Project Plan' laid out at
pages 7-40 of the
2018 budget application v2 (pdf). Under 'Sustainability' it notes:
The programme is proposed to run until at least March 2019, to ensure that the clusters
established in each country have sufficient time to take root, find funding, and
demonstrate their effectiveness. FCO funding for Phase 2 will enable the activities to be
expanded in scale, reach and scope. As clusters have established themselves, they have
begun to access local sources of funding. But this is a slow process and harder in some
countries than others. HQ NATO PDD [Public Diplomacy Division] has proved a reliable source
of funding for national clusters. The ATA [Atlantic Treaty Association] promises to be the
same, giving access to other pots of money within NATO and member nations. Funding from
institutional and national governmental sources in the US has been delayed by internal
disputes within the US government, but w.e.f. March 2018 that deadlock seems to have been
resolved and funding should now flow.
The programme has begun to create a critical mass of individuals from a cross society
(think tanks, academia, politics, the media, government and the military) whose work is
proving to be mutually reinforcing . Creating the network of networks has given each
national group local coherence, credibility and reach, as well as good international
access. Together, these conditions, plus the growing awareness within governments of the
need for this work, should guarantee the continuity of the work under various auspices and
in various forms.
The
third part of the budget application (pdf) list the various activities, their output and
outcome. The budget plan includes a section that describes 'Risks' to the initiative. These
include hacking of the Initiatives IT as well as:
Adverse publicity generated by Russia or by supporters of Russia in target countries, or by
political and interest groups affected by the work of the programme, aimed at discrediting
the programme or its participants, or to create political embarrassment.
We hope that this piece contributes to such embarrassment.
Posted by b on November 24, 2018 at 11:24 AM |
Permalink
"The UK's Secret Intelligence Service, otherwise known as MI6, has been scrambling to
prevent President Trump from publishing classified materials linked to the Russian election
meddling investigation. ... much of the espionage performed on the Trump campaign was conducted on UK soil
throughout 2016."
"Gregory R. Copley, editor and publisher of Defense & Foreign Affairs, posited that
Sergei Skripal is the unnamed Russian intelligence source in the Steele dossier. ... In
Skripal's pseudo-country-gentleman retirement, the ex-GRU-MI6 double agent was selling
custom-made "Russian intelligence"; he had fabricated "material" that went into the Steele
dossier..."
For M16 to expose this level of stupidity is stunning.
this movement in the west by gov'ts to pay for generating lies, hate and
propaganda towards russia is really sick... it is perfect for the military industrial complex
corporations though and they seem to be calling the shots in the west, much more so then the
voice of the ordinary person who is not interested in war.. i guess the idea is to get the
ordinary people to think in terms of hating another country based on lies and that this would
be a good thing... it is very sad what uk / usa leadership in the past century has come down
to here.... i can only hope that info releases like this will hasten it's demise...
Seems to me that this shows the primacy of the City of London, with its offshore network of
illicit capital accumulation, within Britain. It is a state within a state or even a
financial empire within a state, which, for deep historical reasons isn't subject to the same
laws as the rest of the UK.
The UK's pathological obsession with Russia only makes sense to
me as the city's insistence on continued 90s style appropriation of Russia's wealth
@6 ingrian... things didn't go as planned for the expropriation of Russia after the fall of
the Soviet Union.. it seems the west is still hurting from not being able to exploit Russia
fully, as they'd intended...
Let the Doxx wars begin! Sure, Anonymous is not Russian but it will surely now be targeted
and smeared as such which would show that it has hit a nerve. British hypocrisy publicly
called out. How this all unravels is one to watch. Extra large popcorn and soda for me.
I think we've all noticed the euro-asslantic press (and friends) on behalf of, willingly
and in cooperation with the British intelligence et al 'calling out' numerous Russians as
G(R)U/spies/whatever for a while now yet providing less than a shred of credible
evidence.
It seems to me that the UK has far more to lose from doxxing than Russia does. The
interference in sovereign allied states to 'manage' who the UK thinks they should appoint
does not bode well for such relations.
Meanwhile in Brussels they are having their cake and eating it, i.e. bemoaning Europe's
'weak response' to Russian propaganda:
"A separate subcluster of so-called journalists names Deborah Haynes, David Aaronovitch of
the London Times and Neil Buckley from the FT." Subcluster. Love it. Just how crap do you
have to be to fail to make it to membership of a full cluster of smear merchants?
Yet another example of the pot calling the kettle black when in fact the kettle may not be
black at all; it's just the pot making up things. "These Russian criminals are using
propaganda to show (truths) like the fact the DNC and Clinton campaigns colluded to prevent
Sanders from being nominated, so we need to establish a clandestine propaganda network to
establish that the Russians are running propaganda!"
"In 2015 the government of Britain launched a secret operation to insert anti-Russia
propaganda into the western media stream."
I doubt very seriously that the British launched this operation without the CIA's implicit
and explicit support. This has all the markings of a John Brennan operation that has been
launched stealthily to prevent anyone from knowing its real origins.
The Brits don't act alone, and a project of this magnitude did not begin without Langley's
explicit approval.
Now check out the wording in the above document: "Funding from institutional and national governmental sources in the US has been delayed
by internal disputes within the US government, but w.e.f. March 2018 that deadlock seems to
have been resolved and funding should now flow." Think about that. What would have blocked the flow of USG support for this project?? Why, the allegations of collusion against Trump, of course. Naturally, the Republicans are
not going to provide money to an operation that threatens to destroy the head of their own
party. So, there has been no bipartisan agreement on funding for anti-Russia propaganda
BUT...the author assures us that the "deadlock seems to have been resolved and funding
should now flow" Huh?? In other words, the fix is in. Mueller will pardon Trump on collusion charges but the
propaganda campaign against Russia will continue...with the full support of both parties. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it...
This mob was created in the autumn of 2015, according to their site. That would have been
about the time -- probably just after -- the Russians intervened in Syria. The Brits had
plans for an invasion of Syria in 2009, according to their fave Guardian fish wrap.
A lot of
sour grapes with this so-called 'integrity initiative', IMO. BP was behind a lot of this, I
would also think. When Assad pulled the plug on the pipeline through the Levant in 2009, the
Brits hacked up a fur ball. It's gone downhill for them ever since. Couldn't happen to a
nicer lot. If you can't invade or beat them with proxies, you can at least call them names.
If Trump was taking dirty money or engaged in criminal activity with Russians then he
was doing it with Felix Sater, who was under the control of the FBI... And who was in
charge of the FBI during all of the time that Sater was a signed up FBI snitch? You got it
-- Robert Mueller (2001 thru 2013) ...
It seems quite possible that what is alleged as "Russian meddling" is actually CIA-MI6
meddling, including:
Steele dossier: To create suspicion in government, media, and later the public
Leaking of DNC emails to Wikileaks (but calling it a "hack"):
To help with election of Trump and link Wikileaks (as agent) to Russian election
meddling
Cambridge Analytica: To provide necessary reasoning for Trump's (certain) win of the electoral college.
Note: We later found that dozens of firms had undue access to Facebook data. Why did the
campaign turn to a British firm instead of an American firm? Well, it had to be a British
firm if MI6 was running the (supposed) Facebook targeting for CIA.
As I have said before, MAGA is a POLICY RESPONSE to the challenge from Russia and China. The
election of a Republican faux populist was necessary and Trump, despite his many flaws, was
the best candidate for the job.
The Integrity Initiative's goal is to defend democracy against the truth about Russia. All this is so Orwellian. When will we get the Ministry of Love?
"things didn't go as planned for the expropriation of russia after the fall of the soviet
union.. it seems the west is still hurting from not being able to exploit russia fully, as
they'd intended..."
They shot at an elephant and failed to kill it. So yes, out of the combo of frustration, resentment, and fear they hate the resurgent
Russia and prefer Cold War II, and if necessary WWIII, to peaceful co-existence. Of course
the usual corporate imperative (in this case weapons profiteering) reinforces the mass
psychological pathology among the elites.
The ironic thing is that Putin doesn't prefer to challenge the neoliberal globalist
"order" at all, but would happily see Russia take a prominent place within it. It's the US
and its UK poodle who are insisting on confrontation.
Great article! It reminded me of what I read in George Orwell's novella "1984." He summed it
all up brilliantly in nine words: "War is Peace"; "Freedom is Slavery"; "Ignorance is
Strength." The three pillars of political power.
Since UK has always blocked the "European Intelligence" initiative, on the basis of his
pertenence to the "Five Eyes", and as UK is leaving the European Union, where it has always
been the Troyan Horse of the US, one would think that all these people belonging to the so
called "clusters" should register themselves as "foreign agents" working for UK
government...and in this context, new empowerished sovereign governemts into the EU should
consider the possibility expelling these traitors as spies of the UK....
Country list of agents of influence according to the leak:
Germany: Harold Elletson ,Klaus NaumannWolf-Ruediger Bengs, Ex Amb Killian, Gebhardt v Moltke, Roland
Freudenstein, Hubertus Hoffmann, Bertil Wenger, Beate Wedekind, Klaus Wittmann, Florian
Schmidt, Norris v Schirach
Sweden, Norway, Finland: Martin Kragh , Jardar Ostbo, Chris Prebensen, Kate Hansen Bundt, Tor Bukkvoll, Henning-Andre
Sogaard, Kristen Ven Bruusgard, Henrik O Breitenbauch, Niels Poulsen, Jeppe Plenge, Claus
Mathiesen, Katri Pynnoniemi, Ian Robertson, Pauli Jarvenpaa, Andras Racz
Netherlands: Dr Sijbren de Jong, Ida Eklund-Lindwall, Yevhen Fedchenko, Rianne Siebenga, Jerry Sullivan,
Hunter B Treseder, Chris Quick
Spain: Nico de Pedro, Ricardo Blanco Tarno, Eduardo Serra Rexach, Dionisio Urteaga Todo, Dimitri
Barua, Fernando Valenzuela Marzo, Marta Garcia, Abraham Sanz, Fernando Maura, Jose Ignacio
Sanchez Amor, Jesus Ramon-Laca Clausen, Frances Ghiles, Carmen Claudin, Nika Prislan, Luis
Simon, Charles Powell, Mira Milosevich, Daniel Iriarte, Anna Bosch, Mira Milosevich-Juaristi,
Tito, Frances Ghiles, Borja Lasheras, Jordi Bacaria, Alvaro Imbernon-Sainz, Nacho Samor
US, Canada:
Mary Ellen Connell, Anders Aslund, Elizabeth Braw, Paul Goble, David Ziegler
Evelyn Farkas, Glen Howard, Stephen Blank, Ian Brzezinski, Thomas Mahnken, John Nevado,
Robert Nurick, Jeff McCausland
Todd Leventhal
UK: Chris Donnelly
Amalyah Hart William Browder John Ardis
Roderick Collins, Patrick Mileham Deborah Haynes
Dan Lafayeedney Chris Hernon Mungo Melvin
Rob Dover Julian Moore Agnes Josa David Aaronovitch Stephen Dalziel Raheem Shapi Ben
Nimmo
Robert Hall Alexander Hoare Steve Jermy Dominic Kennedy
Victor Madeira Ed Lucas Dr David Ryall
Graham Geale Steve Tatham Natalie Nougayrede Alan Riley [email protected]Anne Applebaum Neil Logan Brown James Wilson
Primavera Quantrill
Bruce Jones David Clark Charles Dick
Ahmed Dassu Sir Adam Thompson Lorna Fitzsimons Neil Buckley Richard Titley Euan Grant
Alastair Aitken Yusuf Desai Bobo Lo Duncan Allen Chris Bell
Peter Mason John Lough Catherine Crozier
Robin Ashcroft Johanna Moehring Vadim Kleiner David Fields Alistair Wood Ben Robinson Drew
Foxall Alex Finnen
Orsyia Lutsevych Charlie Hatton Vladimir Ashurkov
Giles Harris Ben Bradshaw
Chris Scheurweghs James Nixey
Charlie Hornick Baiba Braze J Lindley-French
Craig Oliphant Paul Kitching Nick Childs Celia Szusterman
James Sherr Alan Parfitt Alzbeta Chmelarova Keir Giles
Andy Pryce Zach Harkenrider
Kadri Liik Arron Rahaman David Nicholas Igor Sutyagin Rob Sandford Maya Parmar Andrew Wood
Richard Slack Ellie Scarnell
Nick Smith Asta Skaigiryte Ian Bond Joanna Szostek Gintaras Stonys Nina Jancowicz
Nick Washer Ian Williams Joe Green Carl Miller Adrian Bradshaw
Clement Daudy Jeremy Blackham Gabriel Daudy Andrew Lucy Stafford Diane Allen Alexandros
Papaioannou
Paddy Nicoll
Bellingcat (not Belingcat) is a [intelligence aenies] front, financed by amongst other
orgs, the Atlantic Council which in turn is financed by, well it's a long list!
Vesti News
Published on 19 Nov 2018
Subscribe to Vesti News
Since Monday, we've been watching Poroshenko's panic. On the one hand, he was throwing rude
tantrums because his project to create a "new Church of Ukraine" didn't go as planned. He
only managed to create a branch of the Constantinople Patriarchate in Kiev, which is not the
division-building thing Poroshenko dreamed of. On the other hand, Ukraine, where it's already
snowing, isn't ready for winter.
My suspicion then that Poroshenko must have intended for this new Church of Ukraine to be
subservient to Kiev so that all its properties could be declared state properties and the
Church's wealth could be Kiev's (and Poroshenko's) for the taking only increased when I saw
this report. Interesting too that Poroshenko only now, near the end of his Presidency, is
selling off the assets he should have sold off at the start of his Presidency in compliance
with Ukrainian law.
Gee; who could ever have imagined such a thing would happen? Russia should handle any
emerging crisis very carefully, because Kiev will want to find a way to blame all Ukraine's
problems on Russia, as usual. Russia might win quite a few allies if it boxes clever.
No need to write Poroshenko's epitaph just yet; he's only sold off a ratty old shipyard
that likely was not making him any money anyway. That's not a bellwether of panic; not yet.
But he is almost certain to lose to Tymoshenko, and she will be a double whammy for Ukraine
because she has no more idea how to solve the problem than does Poroshenko, is steadfastly
loyal to the west although it has done nothing since the glorious Maidan but mess Ukraine up
even more than it already was, with the added bonus that she will probably usher in a
circuses-but-no-bread distraction of gunning for Poroshenko and his government, using the
premise that they are to blame for Ukraine's disintegration. That's broadly true, but
Tymoshenko has no plan at all for what comes after Ukrainians' fury is sated.
"On Nov.14, just a day before the decision to cut assistance, the European Parliament
overwhelmingly passed a nonbinding resolution saying Moldova has become a "state captured by
oligarchic interests" that exert their influence over most parts of Moldova's society. The
country is actually ruled by a small group of tycoons."
Ukraine is actually ruled by a small group of tycoons; according to the European Council
on Foreign Relations (which wants Ukraine to succeed as a western satellite, so you can bet
anything negative about it will be soft-pedaled), the 50 5ichest Ukrainians pre-maidan
controlled 45% of national GDP.
Anyone want to present the case that the situation has improved since its oligarchic
president took power, and used it to continuously enrich himself and his family, maintaining
his status as a wealthy businessman even as he takes the odd moment out now and again to see
how the country's doing? I thought not.
Last year, after the country has had quite a generous spell to throw off the shackles of
its oligarchy, the top FIVE Ukrainian oligarchs alone control 13% of the nation's GDP –
Rinat Akhmetov, Ihor Kolomoyskiy, Victor Pinchuk, Petro Poroshenko and Dmytro Firtash.
Waiting in the wings to take over the helm, Yulia Tymoshenko, once known as 'the Gas
Princess", and another oligarch who has been rich since she was very young, whose past
performance suggests Ukraine is in for another round of nest-feathering and struggle for
financial gain among its wealthy citizens, with not a toss given for the rest.
Think we'll see the EU cut them off from funding any time soon? Me, either.
Food scarcity and malnutrition of children under the age of 5, places the Ukraine in
percentage terms lower than Pakistan, Ethiopia, Libya, Iraq .the Ukraine welcomes the Cookie
Monster (stats National Geographic)
Here is how U.S. President Barack Obama proudly, even imperially, described it when
delivering the Commencement address to America's future generals, at West Point Military
Academy, on
28 May 2014 :
The United States is and remains the one indispensable nation . [Every other nation is
therefore 'dispensable'; we therefore now have "Amerika, Amerika über alles, über
alles in der Welt".] That has been true for the century passed and it will be true for the
century to come. America must always lead on the world stage. If we don't, no one else
will...
Russia's aggression toward former Soviet states unnerves capitals in Europe, while China's
economic rise and military reach worries its neighbors. From Brazil to India, rising middle
classes compete with us. [He was here telling these future U.S. military leaders that they
are to fight for the U.S. aristocracy, to help them defeat any nation that resists.] ...
In Ukraine, Russia's recent actions recall the days when Soviet tanks rolled into Eastern
Europe. But this isn't the Cold War. Our ability to shape world opinion helped isolate Russia
right away. [He was proud of the U.S. Government's effectiveness at
propaganda, just as Hitler was proud of the German Government's propaganda-effectiveness
under Joseph Goebbels.] Because of American leadership, the world immediately condemned
Russian actions; Europe and the G7 joined us to impose sanctions; NATO reinforced our
commitment to Eastern European allies; the IMF is helping to stabilize Ukraine's economy;
OSCE monitors brought the eyes of the world to unstable parts of Ukraine.
No other nation regularly invades other nations that never had invaded it. This is
international aggression. It is the international crime of "War of Aggression" ; and the only
nations which do it nowadays are America and its allies, such as the Sauds, Israel, France, and
UK, which often join in America's aggressions (or, in the case of the Sauds' invasion of Yemen,
the ally initiates an invasion, which the U.S. then joins). America's generals are taught this
aggression, and not only by Obama. Ever since at least George W. Bush, it has been solid U.S.
policy. (Bush even kicked out the U.N.'s weapons-inspectors, so as to bomb Iraq in 2003.)
In other words: a mono-polar world is a world in which one nation stands above international
law, and that nation's participation in an invasion immunizes also each of its allies who join
in the invasion, protecting it too from prosecution, so that a mono-polar world is one in which
the United Nations can't even possibly impose international law impartially, but can impose it
only against nations that aren't allied with the mono-polar power, which in this case is the
United States. Furthermore, because the U.S. regime reigns supreme over the entire world, as it
does, any nations -- such as Russia, China, Syria, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Nicaragua,
Cuba, and Ecuador -- that the U.S. regime (which
has itself been scientifically proven to be a dictatorship ) chooses to treat as an enemy,
is especially disadvantaged internationally. Russia and China, however, are among the five
permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and therefore possess a degree of international
protection that America's other chosen enemies do not. And the people who choose which nations
to identify as America's 'enemies' are America's super-rich and not the entire American
population, because
the U.S. Government is controlled by the super-rich and not by the public .
If one of the five permanent members of the Security Council would table at the U.N. a
proposal to eliminate the immunity that the U.S. regime has, from investigation and prosecution
for any future War of Aggression that it might perpetrate, then, of course, the U.S. and any of
its allies on the Security Council would veto that, but if the proposing nation would then
constantly call to the international public's attention that the U.S. and its allies had
blocked passage of such a crucially needed "procedure to amend the UN
charter" , and that this fact means that the U.S. and its allies constitute fascist regimes
as was understood and applied against Germany's fascist regime, at the Nuremberg Tribunal in
1945, then possibly some members of the U.S.-led gang (the NATO portion of it, at least) would
quit that gang, and the U.S. global dictatorship might end, so that there would then become a
multi-polar world, in which democracy could actually thrive.
Democracy can only shrivel in a mono-polar world, because all other nations then are simply
vassal nations, which accept Obama's often-repeated dictum that all other nations are
"dispensable" and that only the U.S. is not. Even the UK would actually gain in freedom, and in
democracy, by breaking away from the U.S., because it would no longer be under the U.S. thumb
-- the thumb of the global aggressor-nation.
Only one global poll has ever been taken of the question "Which
country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?" and it found
that, overwhelmingly, by a three-to-one ratio above the second-most-often named country, the
United States was identified as being precisely that, the top threat to world-peace . But then,
a few years later, another (though less-comprehensive) poll was taken on a similar question,
and it produced
similar results . Apparently, despite the effectiveness of America's propagandists, people
in other lands recognize quite well that today's America is a more successful and
longer-reigning version of Hitler's Germany. Although modern America's propaganda-operation is
far more sophisticated than Nazi Germany's was, it's not entirely successful. America's
invasions are now too common, all based on lies, just like Hitler's were.
On November 9th, Russian Television headlined "'Very insulting': Trump bashes
Macron's idea of European army for protection from Russia, China & US" and reported
that "US President Donald Trump has unloaded on his French counterpart Emmanuel Macron, calling
the French president's idea of a 'real European army,' independent from Washington, an insult."
On the one hand, Trump constantly criticizes France and other European nations for allegedly
not paying enough for America's NATO military alliance, but he now is denigrating France for
proposing to other NATO members a decreasing reliance upon NATO, and increasing reliance,
instead, upon the
Permanent Structured Cooperation (or PESCO) European military alliance , which was begun on
11 December 2017, and which currently has "25 EU Member States participating: Austria, Belgium,
Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary,
Italy, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania,
Slovenia, Slovakia, Spain and Sweden." Those are the European nations that are now on the path
to eventually quitting NATO.
Once NATO is ended, the U.S. regime will find far more difficult any invasions such as of
Iraq 2003, Libya 2011, Syria 2012-, Yemen 2016-, and maybe even such as America's bloody coup
that overthrew the democratically elected Government of Ukraine and installed a racist-fascist or
nazi anti-Russian regime there in 2014 . All of these U.S. invasions (and coup) brought to
Europe millions of refugees and enormously increased burdens upon European taxpayers. Plus,
America's economic sanctions against both Russia and Iran have hurt European companies (and the
U.S. does almost no business with either country, so is immune to that, also). Consequently,
today's America is clearly Europe's actual main enemy. The continuation of NATO is actually
toxic to the peoples of Europe. Communism and the Soviet Union and its NATO-mirroring Warsaw
Pact military alliance, all ended peacefully in 1991, but
the U.S. regime has secretly continued the Cold War, now against Russia , and is
increasingly focusing its "regime-change" propaganda against Russia's
popular democratic leader, Vladimir Putin, even though this U.S. aggression against Russia
could mean a world-annihilating nuclear war.
Europe's desire to create its own army and stop relying on Washington for defense is not
only understandable, but would be "positive" for the multipolar world, Vladimir Putin said
days after Donald Trump ripped into it.
" Europe is a powerful economic union and it is only natural that they want to be
independent and sovereign in the field of defense and security," Putin told RT in Paris where
world leader gathered to mark the centenary of the end of WWI.
He also described the potential creation of a European army "a positive process," adding
that it would "strengthen the multipolar world." The Russian leader even expressed his
support to French President Emmanuel Macron, who recently championed this idea by saying that
Russia's stance on the issue "is aligned with that of France" to some extent.
Macron recently revived the ambitious plans of creating a combined EU military force by
saying that it is essential for the security of Europe. He also said that the EU must become
independent from its key ally on the other side of the Atlantic, provoking an angry reaction
from Washington.
Once NATO has shrunk to include only the pro-aggression and outright nazi European nations, such as
Ukraine (after the U.S. gang accepts Ukraine into NATO, as it almost certainly then would
do), the EU will have a degree of freedom and of democracy that it can only dream of today, and
there will then be a multi-polar world, in which the leaders of the U.S. will no longer enjoy
the type of immunity from investigation and possible prosecution, for their invasions, that
they do today. The result of this will, however, be catastrophic for the top 100
U.S. 'defense' contractors , such as Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, and Raytheon,
because then all of those firms' foreign sales except to the Sauds, Israel and a few other
feudal and fascist regimes, will greatly decline. Donald Trump is doing everything he can to
keep the Sauds to the agreements he reached with them back in 2017 to buy
$404 billion of U.S. weaponry over the following 10 years . If, in addition, those firms
lose some of their European sales, then the U.S. economic boom thus far in Trump's Presidency
will be seriously endangered. So, the U.S. regime, which is run by the owners
of its 'defense'-contractors , will do all it can to prevent this from happening.
"... Union Jackboot: What Your Media and Professors Don't Tell You About British Foreign Policy ..."
"... There seems to be a consensus that we need a strong military because Russia is on the rise. What do you think about that rationale? ..."
"... What about military threats? ..."
"... So we've extended NATO to pretty much the Russian border? But there's a hard border there. Everyone knows we're never going to attack Russia, both for reasons of morality and self-preservation. So maybe this situation is safer than you imply. ..."
"... Brexit White Paper ..."
"... T. J. Coles is a postdoctoral researcher at Plymouth University's Cognition Institute and the author of several books. ..."
"... Matthew Alford teaches at Bath University in the UK and has also written several books. Their latest is ..."
"... The Rise and Fall of the British Empire ..."
"... Bolshevism and Imperial Sedition ..."
"... Power without Responsibility ..."
"... Russian Roulette: A Deadly Game: How British Spies Thwarted Lenin's Global Plot ..."
"... Statement for the Record: Worldwide Threat Assessment of the US Intelligence Community ..."
"... Vision for 2020 ..."
"... Russian Nuclear Weapons: Past, Present, and Future ..."
"... The New Atlanticist ..."
"... The United Kingdom's relations with Russia ..."
Alford: There seems to be a consensus that we need a strong military because Russia is on the rise. What do you think about
that rationale?
Coles: There's no consensus, except among European and American elites. Europe and America are not the world.
There are a lot of issues to consider with regards to Russia. Is it a threat? If so to whom? What kind of threat is Russia? So
let's consider these questions carefully. As far as the British establishment is concerned, Russia is an ideological threat because
it is a major power with a substantial population. It's also self-reliant where oil and gas is concerned, unlike Britain. So there's
lots of potential for Russian political ideology to undermine Britain's status. In fact, there are European Council on Foreign Relations
papers saying that Putin's Russia presents an "ideological alternative" to the EU.
[i] And that's dangerous.
Britain, or more accurately its policymaking elites, have considered Russia a significant enemy for over a century. Under the
Tsar, the so-called Great Game was a battle for strategic resources, trading routes, and so on. The historian Lawrence James calls
this period the first Cold War, which went "hot" with the Crimean War (1853-56).
[ii] Britain had a mixed relationship with
the Tsars because, on the one hand, theirs' were repressive regimes and Britain tended to favour repressive regimes, hence their
brief alliance with Russia's enemy, the Ottomans. On the other hand, Russia was a strategic threat to Britain's imperial interests,
and thus the Crimean War (1853-56).
When the Bolsheviks took over Russia, beginning 1917, the relationship became much less ambiguous – Russians, and especially Bolsheviks,
were clearly the enemy. Their ideology posed a threat internally. So Winston Churchill, who began as a Liberal and became a Conservative,
considered the Labour Party, which was formed in 1900, as basically a front for Bolsheviks.
[iii] That shows the level of paranoia among
elites. The Labour Party, at least at the beginning, was a genuine, working man's political organisation – women couldn't vote then,
remember. So by associating this progressive, grassroots party representing the working classes as an ideological ally or even puppet
of the brutal Bolshevik regime, the Tories had an excuse to undermine the power of organised, working people. So you had the Zinoviev
letter in 1924, which we now know was a literal conspiracy between the secret services and elements of the Tory party to fabricate
a link between Labour and Moscow. And it famously cost Labour the general election, since the right-wing, privately-owned media ran
with the story as though it was real. It's an early example of fake news.
[iv]
That's the ideological threat that Russia has posed, historically. But where there's a threat, there's an opportunity. The British
elites exploited the "threat" then and as they do today by associating organised labour with evil Bolshevism and, in doing so, alienate
the lower classes from their own political interests. Suddenly, we've all got to be scared of Russia, just like in 1917. And let's
not forget that Britain used chemical weapons – M-Devices, which induced vomiting – against the Bolsheviks. Chemical weapons were
"the right medicine for the Bolshevist," in Churchill's words. This was in 1919, as part of the Allied invasion of Russia in support
of the White Army. [v]
So if we're talking about the historical balance of forces and cause and effect, Britain not Russia initiated the use of chemical
weapons against others. But this history is typically inverted to say that Russia poses a threat to the West, hence all the talk
about Novichok, the Skripals, and Dawn Sturgess, the civilian who supposedly came into contact with Novichok and died in hospital
a few days later.
The next question: What sort of threat is Russia? According to the US Army War College, since the collapse of the Soviet
Union and since pro-US, pro-"free market" President Boris Yeltsin resigned in 1999, Russia has pursued so-called economic nationalism.
And the US doesn't like this because markets suddenly get closed and taxes are raised against US corporations.
[vi] That's the real threat. But you can't
tell the public that: that we hate Russia because they aren't doing what we say. If you look through the military documents, you
can find almost nothing about security threats against the US in terms of Russian
expansion, except in the sense that "security" means operational freedom. You can find references to Russia's nuclear weapons,
though, which are described as defensive, designed "to counter US forces and weapons systems."
[vii] Try finding that on the BBC. I should
mention that even "defensive" nukes can be launched accidentally.
The real goal with regards to Russia is maintaining US economic hegemony and the culture of open "free markets" that goes with
it, while at the same time being protectionist in real life. (US protectionism didn't start under Trump, by the way.) Liberal media
like the New York Times run sarcastic articles about Russian state oil and gas being a front for Putin and his cronies.
And yes, that may be true. But what threat is Russia to the US if it has a corrupt government? The threat is closing its markets
to the US. The US is committed to what its military calls Full Spectrum Dominance. So the world needs to be run in a US-led neoliberal
order, in the words of the US military, "to protect US interests and investment."
[viii] But this cannot be done if you have
"economic nationalism," like China had until the "reforms" of the '70s and '80s, and still has today to some extent. Russia and China
aren't military threats. The global population on the whole knows this, even though the domestic US and British media say the opposite.
Alford: What about military threats?
Coles: The best sources you can get are the US military records. Straight from the horse's mouth. The military plans for war and
defence. They have contingencies for when political situations change. So they know what they're talking about. There's a massive
divide between reality, as understood from the military records, and media and political rhetoric. Assessments by the US Army War
College, for instance, said years ago that any moves by NATO to support a Western-backed government in Ukraine would provoke Russia
into annexing Crimea. They don't talk about Russia spontaneously invading Ukraine and annexing it, which is the image we get from
the media. The documents talk about Russia reacting to NATO provocation.
[ix]
If you look at a map, you see Russia surrounded by hostile NATO forces. The media don't discuss this dangerous and provocative
situation, except the occasional mention of, say, US-British-Polish war-gaming on the border with Russia. When they do mention it,
they say it's for "containment," the containment of Russia. But to contain something, the given thing has to be expanding. But the
US military – like the annual threat assessments to Congress – say that Russia's not expanding, except when provoked. So at the moment
as part of its NATO mission, the UK is training Polish and Ukrainian armed forces, has deployed troops in Poland and Estonia, and
is conducting military exercises with them.
[x]
Imagine if Scotland ceded from the UK and the Russians were on our border conducting military exercises, supposedly to deter a
British invasion of Scotland. That's what we're doing in Ukraine. Britain's moves are extremely dangerous. In the 1980s, the UK as
part of NATO conducted the exercise, Operation Able Archer, which envisaged troop build-ups between NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries.
Now-declassified records show that the Russians briefly mistook this exercise for a real-world scenario. That could have escalated
into nuclear war. This is very serious. [xi]
But the biggest player is the USA. It's using the threat of force and a global architecture of hi-tech militarism to shape a neoliberal
order. Britain is slavishly following its lead. I doubt that Britain would position forces near Russia were it not for the USA. Successive
US administrations have or are building a missile system in Europe and Turkey. They say it's to deter Iran from firing Scud missiles
at Europe. But it's pointed at Russia. It's a radar system based in Romania and Turkey, with a battery of Patriot missiles based
in Poland. The stationing of missiles there provoked Russia into moving its mobile nuclear weapons up to the border in its Kaliningrad
exclave, as it warned it would do in 2008.
[xii] Try to find any coverage of that in the media, except for a few articles in the print media here or there. If Western media
were interested in survival, there would be regular headlines: "NATO provoking Russia."
But the situation in Ukraine is really the tipping point. Consider the equivalent. Imagine if Russia was conducting military exercises
with Canada or Mexico, and building bases there. How would the US react? It would be considered an extreme threat, a violation of
the UN Charter, which prohibits threats against sovereign states.
Alford: So we've extended NATO to pretty much the Russian border? But there's a hard border there. Everyone knows we're never
going to attack Russia, both for reasons of morality and self-preservation. So maybe this situation is safer than you imply.
Coles: There's no morality involved. States are abstract, amorphous entities comprised of dominant minorities and subjugated majorities
who are conditioned to believe that they are relatively free and prosperous. The elites of those states act both in their self-interests
– career, peer-pressure, kickbacks, and so on – and in the interests of their class, which is of course tied to international relations
because their class thrives on profiting from resource exploitation. So you can't talk about morality in this context. Only individuals
can behave morally. The state is made up of individuals, of course, but they're acting against the interests of the majority. As
we speak, they are acting immorally – or at least amorally – but creating the geopolitical conditions that imperil each
and every one of us.
As for invasion, we're not going to invade Russia. This isn't 1918. Russia has nuclear weapons and can deter an invasion. But
that's not the point. Do we want to de-escalate an already tense geopolitical situation or make it worse to the point where an accident
happens? So while it's not about invading Russia directly, the issue is about attacking what are called Russia's "national interests."
Russia's "national interests" are the same as the elites' of the UK. National interest doesn't mean the interests of the public.
It means the interests of the policymaking establishment and the corporations. For example, the Theresa May government sacrificed
its own credibility to ensure that its Brexit White Paper (2018) appeased both the interests of the food and manufacturing
industries that want a soft Brexit – easy trade with the EU – and the financial services sector which wants a hard Brexit – freedom
from EU regulation. Everyone else be damned. That's the "national interest."
So for its real "national interest," Russia wants to keep Ukraine in its sphere of influence because its oil and gas to Europe
pass through Ukraine. About 80% of Russia's export economy is in the oil and gas sector. It's already had serious political tensions
with Ukraine, which on several occasions hasn't paid its energy bills, so Russia has cut supplies. If Europe can bump Ukraine into
its own sphere of influence it has more leverage over Russia. This is practically admitted in Parliamentary discussions by Foreign
Office ministers, and so forth. [xiii]
Again, omitted by the media. Also, remember that plenty of ethnic Russians live in eastern Ukraine. In addition, Russia has a naval
base in Crimea. That's not to excuse its illegal action in annexing Ukraine, it's to highlight the realpolitik missing in
the media's coverage of the situation.
T. J. Coles is a postdoctoral researcher at Plymouth University's Cognition Institute and the author of several books.
Matthew Alford teaches at Bath University in the UK and has also written several books. Their latest is
Union Jackboot(Até Books).
[ii] 'Anglo-Russian relations were severely
strained; what was in effect a cold war lasted from the late 1820s to the beginning of the next century'. The Crimean War seems to
have set a precedent for today. James writes:
[It] was an imperial war, the only one fought by Britain against a European power during the nineteenth century, although some
would have regarded Russia as essentially an Asiatic power. No territory was at stake; the war was undertaken solely to guarantee
British naval supremacy in the Mediterranean and, indirectly, to forestall any threat to India which might have followed Russia
replacing Britain as the dominant power in the Middle East.
Lawrence James (1997) The Rise and Fall of the British Empire London: Abacus, pp. 180-82.
All these strikes and rumours of strikes and threats of strikes and loss and suffering caused by them; all this talk of revolution
and "direct action" have deeply offended most of the British people. There is a growing feeling that a considerable section of
organized Labour is trying to tyrannize over the whole public and to bully them into submission, not by argument, not by recognized
political measures, but by brute force
But if we can do little for Russia [under the Bolsheviks], we can do much for Britain. We do not want any of these experiments
here
Whether it is the Irish murder gang or the Egyptian vengeance society, or the seditious extremists in India, or the arch-traitors
we have at home, they will feel the weight of the British arm.
A settlement of relations between the two countries [UK and Russia] will assist in the revolutionising of the international
and British proletariat, [and] make it possible for us to extend and develop the propaganda and ideas of Leninism in England and
the colonies.
It also says that 'British workmen' have 'inclinations to compromise' and that rapprochement will eventually lead to domestic
'[a]rmed warfare'. It was leaked by the services to the Conservative party and then to the media. Richard Norton-Taylor (1999) 'Zinoviev
letter was dirty trick by MI6' Guardianhttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/1999/feb/04/uk.politicalnews6
and Louise Jury (1999) 'Official Zinoviev letter was forged' Independenthttp://www.independent.co.uk/news/official-zinoviev-letter-was-forged-1068600.html
. For media coverage at the time, see James Curran and Jean Seaton (1997) Power without Responsibility London: Routledge,
p. 52.
[v] Paul F. Walker (2017) 'A Century
of Chemical Warfare: Building a World Free of Chemical Weapons' Conference: One Hundred Years of Chemical Warfare: Research, Deployment,
Consequences pp. 379-400 and Giles Milton (2013) Russian Roulette: A Deadly Game: How British Spies Thwarted Lenin's Global Plot
London: Hodder, eBook.
[vi] 'The Russian Federation has shown
repeatedly that common values play almost no role in its consideration of its trading partners', meaning the US and EU. 'It often
builds relationships with countries that most openly thwart Western values of free markets and democracy', notably Iran and Venezuela.
'In this regard, the Russian Federation behaves like "Russia Incorporated." It uses its re-nationalized industries to further its
wealth and influence, the latter often at the expense of the EU and the U.S.'. Colonel Richard J. Anderson (2008) 'A History of President
Putin's Campaign to Re-Nationalize Industry and the Implications for Russian Reform and Foreign Policy' Senior Service College, US
Army War College, Pennsylvania: Carlisle Barracks, p. 52.
[vii] Daniel R. Coats (2017) Statement
for the Record: Worldwide Threat Assessment of the US Intelligence Community Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Washington,
DC: Office of the Director of
[ix] The document also says: 'a replay
of the West-sponsored coup against pro-Russian elites could result in a split, or indeed multiple splits, of the failed Ukraine,
which would open a door for NATO intervention'.Pavel K. Baev (2011) 'Russia's security relations with the United States: Futures
planned and unplanned' in Stephen J. Blank (ed.) Russian Nuclear Weapons: Past, Present, and Future Strategic Studies Institute
Pennsylvania: Carlisle Barracks, p. 170, www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pdffiles/PUB1087.pdf.
[xi] For example, Nate Jones, Thomas
Blanton and Christian F. Ostermann (2016) 'Able Archer 83: The Secret History' Nuclear Proliferation International History Project
Washington, DC: Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/event/able-archer-83-the-secret-history
.
[xii] It was reported in the ultra-right,
neo-con press at the time that:
[Russian] President Dmitri Medvedev announced in his first state-of-the-nation address plans to deploy the short-range SS-26
("Iskander") missiles in the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad if the U.S. goes ahead with its European Ballistic Missile Defense
System (BMDS). Medvedev told parliament that the deployment would "neutralize" U.S. plans for a missile defense shield based in
Poland and the Czech Republic [now in Romania), which the U.S. claims as vital in defending against missile attacks from 'rogue
states' such as Iran.
Neil Leslie (2008) 'The Kaliningrad Missile Crisis' The New Atlanticist , available at http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-kaliningrad-missile-crisis.
[xiii] For example, a Parliamentary
inquiry into British-Russian relations says of the newly-imposed US-British ally in Ukraine:
President Poroshenko's Government is more openly committed to economic reform and anti-corruption than any previous Ukrainian
Administration. The reform agenda has made considerable progress and has enjoyed some successes including police reform, liberalisation
of the energy market and the launch of an online platform for government procurement
The annexation of Crimea also resulted in a ban on importing products from Crimea, on investing in or providing services linked
to tourism and on exporting certain goods for use in the transport, telecoms and energy sectors.
This is the net result of neoliberalism enforced debt slavery for the country. And there is no chances for Ukrainians to
climb back from this debt hole.
Notable quotes:
"... Ukraine's SSS has acknowledged that so far this year, the population has already decreased by 122,000. ..."
"... While the country's low birth rate of approximately 1 birth for 1.5 deaths is a contributing factor to the country's depopulation, emigration is by far the biggest factor. ..."
"... Between 2002 and 2017, an estimated 6.3 million Ukrainians emigrated with no plans to return. ..."
"... Through 2015 and 2017, as a result of the ongoing war in the Donbass region and the plunging value of the Ukrainian hryvnia, migration increased notably: 507,000 people went to Poland; 147,000 to Italy; 122,000 to the Czech Republic; 23,000 to the United States; and 365,000 to Russia or Belarus. ..."
"... The easing of visa-free travel by the European Union (EU) in September 2017 only increased the flow of Ukrainians to countries such as Poland, which is facing its own demographic crisis and in need of workers. In 2018 alone, more than 3 million Ukrainians applied for passports that would allow them to work in Poland. Poland is the only EU country that allows Ukrainians to obtain seasonal work visas with just a passport. Ukrainians have received 81.7% of all work visas issued in Poland this year. ..."
"... Between 1 and 2 million Ukrainian workers now reside in Poland, where they are often forced to take jobs "under the table," are easily exploited by employers, and work in dangerous conditions. Many Ukrainian laborers are recruited to Poland by scam offers of employment, only to then find themselves stranded and forced to work for whatever wage they can get. ..."
"... While Russia is constantly demonized in the Ukrainian and Western press as the eternal enemy of Ukraine, 2 million Ukrainian citizens now live or work in Russia. According to Olga Kirilova, between 2014 and 2017, 312,000 Ukrainians were granted Russian citizenship and Ukrainians make up the vast majority of immigrants to Russia. ..."
"... The migration of Ukrainian workers abroad has reached such a level that remittances from migrants now constitute 3 to 4 percent of the country's GDP. They exceed the amount of foreign investment in Ukraine. Nonetheless, such transfers are not nearly enough to make up for the negative impact of the currency's falling value, inflation, and the disappearance of skilled workers. ..."
"... The Ukrainian ruling class acknowledges that the country is in serious trouble. "One of the main risks of the current scenario is the continuation of the outflow of labor from Ukraine, which will create a further increase in the imbalance between demand and supply in the labor market," noted a report from the country's national bank. ..."
"... The Corrupt, extreme right wing government of Poroshenko, that has driven large proportions of the Ukrainian population into poverty and despair has only been able to take power and remain I office thanks to US imperialism and Angela Merkel's scheming and regime change program. ..."
"... Popular support for the "maidan" in the Ukraine was based on misleading and dishonest claims by pro EU and Pro US opportunistic political operators that such "regime change" would lead to total integration with Europe and open borders.... ..."
"... One of the most horrific consequences of the dismantling of the Soviet Union was the explosion of sex trafficking and very large numbers of Ukrainian women were caught up in this horrific exploitation and continue to be. ..."
"... Oh the benefits of US installed dictatorships. ..."
"... "Welcome to Europe, Ukraine. Here are your rubber gloves and toilet cleaning brush. Oh, you're a young woman? The red light district is three blocks that way". ..."
"... In Baltic states after being "freed from communism and Soviet occupation" the population decline is also very prominent, the same reasons as in Ukraine too. ..."
As fascist far-right nationalist groups regularly parade through the country demanding "Ukraine for Ukrainians," Ukraine faces
a massive depopulation crisis. Millions of people of all ethnicities are leaving the country, fleeing poverty and war.
Since the restoration of capitalism in 1991, the overall population of Ukraine has declined from just over 52 million to approximately
42 million today, a decrease of nearly 20 percent. If the separatist-controlled provinces of the Donbass region and Crimea are excluded,
it is estimated that just 35 million people now live in the area controlled by the government of Petro Porosehnko.
Ukrainian governments, including the current one, have been loath to carry out an official census, as it is widely believed that
the population estimates reported by the country's State Statistics Service (SSS) are inflated by including deceased individuals.
One aim of this is to rig elections. An official country-wide census has not been held since 2001. In late 2015, the Poroshenko government
postponed the 2016 census until 2020.
Despite the lack of reliable official numbers, all independent reports point to a sharp reduction in the population. According
to Ukraine's Institute of Demography at the Academy of Sciences, by 2050 only 32 million people will live in the country. The World
Health Organization has estimated that the population of the country will drop even further, to just 30 million people.
Ukraine's SSS has acknowledged that so far this year, the population has already decreased by 122,000.
Such data are a testament to the monumental failure of capitalism to provide a standard of living that matches, much less exceeds,
that which existed during the Soviet period over 25 years ago.
While the country's low birth rate of approximately 1 birth for 1.5 deaths is a contributing factor to the country's depopulation,
emigration is by far the biggest factor.
Between 2002 and 2017, an estimated 6.3 million Ukrainians emigrated with no plans to return.
Facing poor employment prospects, deteriorating social and medical services, marauding far-right gangs, and the ever-present
prospect of a full-scale war with Russia, Ukrainian workers are fleeing the country in great numbers, either permanently or as temporary
labor migrants.
According to a report from the Center for Economic Strategy (CES), almost 4 million people, or up to 16% of the working-age population,
are labor migrants. Despite having Ukrainian citizenship and still technically living in Ukraine, they actually reside and work elsewhere.
Ukraine's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has put the number of Ukrainian migrant workers even higher, at 5 million.
Through 2015 and 2017, as a result of the ongoing war in the Donbass region and the plunging value of the Ukrainian hryvnia, migration
increased notably: 507,000 people went to Poland; 147,000 to Italy; 122,000 to the Czech Republic; 23,000 to the United States; and
365,000 to Russia or Belarus.
The easing of visa-free travel by the European Union (EU) in September 2017 only increased the flow of Ukrainians to countries
such as Poland, which is facing its own demographic crisis and in need of workers. In 2018 alone, more than 3 million Ukrainians
applied for passports that would allow them to work in Poland. Poland is the only EU country that allows Ukrainians to obtain seasonal
work visas with just a passport. Ukrainians have received 81.7% of all work visas issued in Poland this year.
Between 1 and 2 million Ukrainian workers now reside in Poland, where they are often forced to take jobs "under the table," are
easily exploited by employers, and work in dangerous conditions. Many Ukrainian laborers are recruited to Poland by scam offers of
employment, only to then find themselves stranded and forced to work for whatever wage they can get.
While migrant workers in Poland are constantly subjected to anti-immigrant rhetoric from the right-wing PiS government in Warsaw,
the Polish state classifies Ukrainian laborers as "refugees" in order to comply with EU quotas and reject refugees from Syria and
elsewhere.
According to polls of Ukrainian migrants in Poland, over half are planning to move to Germany if the labor market there is ever
open to them.
While Russia is constantly demonized in the Ukrainian and Western press as the eternal enemy of Ukraine, 2 million Ukrainian
citizens now live or work in Russia. According to Olga Kirilova, between 2014 and 2017, 312,000 Ukrainians were granted Russian citizenship
and Ukrainians make up the vast majority of immigrants to Russia.
The dearth of a working-age population in Ukraine is putting further strain on an already struggling pension system. According
to Ukraine's SSS, as a result of widespread labor migration, only 17.8 million out of 42 million Ukrainians are economically active
and paying into the pension system.
The migration of Ukrainian workers abroad has reached such a level that remittances from migrants now constitute 3 to 4 percent
of the country's GDP. They exceed the amount of foreign investment in Ukraine. Nonetheless, such transfers are not nearly enough
to make up for the negative impact of the currency's falling value, inflation, and the disappearance of skilled workers.
The Ukrainian ruling class acknowledges that the country is in serious trouble. "One of the main risks of the current scenario
is the continuation of the outflow of labor from Ukraine, which will create a further increase in the imbalance between demand and
supply in the labor market," noted a report from the country's national bank.
However, the government can do nothing to slow the mass emigration, as it is thoroughly under the control of international finance
capital and committed to implementing the austerity programs demanded by Western states and banks.
Despite assurances from the Poroshenko regime that the economy will improve, the emigration and emptying of the country shows
no signs of slowing.
The Corrupt, extreme right wing government of Poroshenko, that has driven large proportions of the Ukrainian population into
poverty and despair has only been able to take power and remain I office thanks to US imperialism and Angela Merkel's scheming
and regime change program.
Without the working class intervening the only ones remaining in Ukraine will be those unable to leave and those that have
their noses in the trough.
Another excellent report of decaying of artificial entity of Ukraine (and capitalism specializes in collapsing societies) that
never even existed before 1992 in European history and was resurrected ( from brief self declared by Bandera racist state status
in 1941) and funded by Germany, Canada and US only to nurture their Fascist and actual Nazi traditions starting from Doncov to
Bandera terror of hundreds of thousands dead 1941-1948 of OUN-B, UPA and Ukrainian SS, all against Russia, as Ukrainian "Country"
was and is used as a Trojan horse to push Putin to submit to the west even more than he does now.
Pain and suffering of Ukrainian people is enormous as only 5% of population of Ukrainian Nazi thugs terrorist nation like like
Hitler street thugs in 1932-1934. It is tragedy that capitalism instigated, exasperated and augmented and should be a lesson for
the left what nationalism does, divides working class that was rendered powerless in Ukraine as Ukrainian industry tied to Russia
collapsed and forces massive migration and de-cohesion of communities, divisions of working class and eradication of any real
leftist leadership via murder, intimidation and exile.
Just a note. All that anti Russia hoopla after 2014 and ensuing NATO belligerence and warmongering and sanctions all were focused
on so called annexation of Crimea to Russia which was nothing but reunification of land under control of Russia since 1754.
I was shocked watching an episode of Columbo, crime series in 1970s when one of characters proudly referred to California joining
in US 1845 as annexation from Mexico, with no shame or condemnation like hinting that it was international aggression of US as
Alta California was never part of US before that.
Well, it was before 1984 and Orwellian newspeak.
Note that Crimea remained autonomous region, not a part of Russia but part of Russian Federation.
Popular support for the "maidan" in the Ukraine was based on misleading and dishonest claims by pro EU and Pro US opportunistic
political operators that such "regime change" would lead to total integration with Europe and open borders.... That would
have allowed (so the misconception went) Ukrainians to flee the country much more openly with less red tape and hassle at the
borders. So, far from being politically or ideologically supportive of Europe or the US or opportunist/nationalist Ukrainian politicians,
the vast majority of Ukrainians only wanted to be allowed to flee, as they experience it, a social shipwreck
One of the most horrific consequences of the dismantling of the Soviet Union was the explosion of sex trafficking and very
large numbers of Ukrainian women were caught up in this horrific exploitation and continue to be.
Victoria Newland and Geoffrey Pyatt, both US officials, were recorded at the time of the right wing and fascist led coup that
overthrew Russian backed Yanakovic, boasting that Washington had poured $5 billion into Ukraine ensuring that their man, an ex
World Bank executive, was elected.
Since then the most rabid anti working class/ anti Russian governments have ruled the roost.
Only those unable to flee this hell- hole and those whose snout is in the trough will soon be left there. Oh the benefits
of US installed dictatorships.
In addition to emigration, Ukraine's decreasing population is a result of a higher infant mortality rate than surrounding countries.
High infant mortality rates always indicate economic and social stress.
According to The World Bank 2017 figures for infant mortality in that region, the rate per 1,000 births in Ukraine is 7.5 compared
to the following rates in surrounding countries:
Poland - 4.0
Romania - 6.6
Russia - 6.5
Belarus - 2.8
Hungary -3.8
Slovak Republic - 4.6
Only poor Moldova is higher at 13.3
Kinda shot themselves in the foot with their "Revolution of Dignity" fascist coup. "Welcome to Europe, Ukraine. Here are your
rubber gloves and toilet cleaning brush. Oh, you're a young woman? The red light district is three blocks that way".
Life in Crimea must be looking pretty good to them now.
The puppet of the USA, Poroshenko , needs to go, and the USA should get the hell out of the Ukraine plus NATO has no business
being on the borders of Russia. This is all the fault of the USA, And, the current immigration problem world wide is because the
USA bombs countries eviscerating them yet the USA refuses to admit refugees which are fleeing from the USA wars.
In Baltic states after being "freed from communism and Soviet occupation" the population decline is also very prominent, the
same reasons as in Ukraine too.
These same right-wing, fascist Ukrainian Banderovitzes love to yell and scream about the bogus "Holodomor" hoax (which has been
debunked by serious scholars such as Pers Anders Rudling, and others, as well as Thottle). They falsely claim that the USSR tried
to "depopulate" Ukrainians, when they are the ones who have depopulated Ukraine.
"... "In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy." ..."
"... "Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed? You think Russia doesn't run on greed? You think China doesn't run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, it's only the other fellow who's greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you're talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it's exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system." ..."
"... The United States has expended considerable energy and no end of media manipulation to make an enemy of Russia. It hardly seems sensible on Russia's part to go on helping America with its aerospace industry, since much of it is devoted to weapons and military systems production. The others, in order, are Japan (which produces less than half China's total), Kazakhstan, Ukraine and India. ..."
"... The Diplomatic Courier ..."
"... "United States-Russia relations have been perplexing in the last two years, and tensions between the two increased in April when newly imposed sanctions were placed on Russia. Because of these sanctions, Russia has threatened to halt titanium exports to the United States. With a growing dependency on titanium, the result of this would be ruinous for the United States defense industry and for aircraft manufacturers such as Boeing." ..."
"In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed
always defeats disorganized democracy."
Matt Taibbi, from Griftopia
"Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed?
You think Russia doesn't run on greed? You think China doesn't run on greed? What is greed? Of
course, none of us are greedy, it's only the other fellow who's greedy. The world runs on
individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not
come from government bureaus. Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a
bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases
in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty you're talking about, the
only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If
you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, it's exactly in the kinds of
societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear,
that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people
that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise
system."
Milton Friedman
It's maybe a little unfortunate that cynicism has shoved its way to the fore in social
consciousness; if you smell flowers, look around for a funeral. The world wasn't always that
way, and once the American Dream which is really the dream of everyone everywhere – the
fond hope that all that will make us happy in life; love, family, the kind of paycheck that
will let one enjoy both, will somehow find us if only we are loyal and determined – was
relatively humble, and sort of sweet. Enough was just enough, and not just a little bit more,
if you feel me.
Somewhere along the storied path, greed became a virtue, as enshrined by Milton Friedman and
others like him. Greed is nothing to be ashamed of – it's nothing less than the pistons
in the great engine of human development. Greed is the puppet-master, pulling the strings of
democracy.
So when Uncle Sam starts talking up democracy, look around for something you have that he
might want.
Pardon a brief interjection here; Daniel Witt seems like a pretty straightforward guy. If
this is the same Daniel Witt,
his motivation genuinely seems to be the straightest road to profitability. His most-requested
speech, according to his bio, is "U.S. Protectionism Begs World Retaliation". He shows every
sign of being a guy who believes in free trade going both ways, the freer the better, and not a
shill for an end-run by the US government.
So what makes me so suspicious, suspicion being the natural companion of cynicism? I'm glad
you asked. In a word, titanium.
What's the only state-owned asset he singles out by name as a sign that the Ukrainian
government is backsliding on its reform road, just when real partnership beckons? The
Zaporizhia Titanium and Magnesium Combine. Hmmm. Which just happens to be 49% owned by Dmytro
Firtash, the sole Ukrainian oligarch to whom the USA seems to have taken a deep and abiding
dislike. He remains under house arrest in Vienna at the request of the US government, for
'alleged corrupt practices using U.S. banks', and it seems pretty clear that same US government
would have no problems with the Zaporizhia Titanium and Magnesium Combine being nationalized
and then sold to a private investor with or without his consent. Which is kind of an odd
position for the US government to take, considering its decidedly negative assessment of
Crimea's nationalization of businesses located in Crimea which were formerly the property of
Ukrainian oligarchs.
Two basic facts will guide us as we proceed; one, the United States uses a lot of titanium,
and it is absolutely vital to its aerospace and aircraft industry. Titanium is stronger than
steel but much lighter, and if America had to substitute steel for titanium in its passenger
aircraft, they would be much heavier, and able to carry only reduced loads of passengers and
cargo. Not to mention fuel, so they couldn't fly as far. The Boeing Dreamliner is
somewhere between 12% and 15% titanium , and Boeing was losing $23 million on every
Dreamliner that left the factory in 2015.
Two, the United States is not on the list of
major titanium producers . In fact, only one lone ally is – Japan. Doubtless further
adding to American chagrin, the runaway leader in titanium production is China, with whom the
United States is currently engaged in a loud and messy trade war which relies heavily, from the
American perspective, on acting the tough guy and employing a quickly-escalating sequence of
threats and tariffs. Not a country you want to have your balls in a vise over supplies of a
commodity you have to have in order to remain dominant in a major global industry.
Who's next? Russia. Ditto. The United States has expended considerable energy and no end
of media manipulation to make an enemy of Russia. It hardly seems sensible on Russia's part to
go on helping America with its aerospace industry, since much of it is devoted to weapons and
military systems production. The others, in order, are Japan (which produces less than half
China's total), Kazakhstan, Ukraine and India.
Hmmmm .Ukraine. Ukraine produces about 10,000 metric tons a year, but if a private investor
took over and modernized production, it might be much more. Of course the business could not
sell at a loss, but perhaps it might arrive at a Wal-Mart solution; I know a customer who will
buy 100% of your output – here's how much he's willing to pay. Perhaps not as much as you
hoped, but you can be assured of selling as much as you can produce. Free trade in action,
baby; dig it.
That's roughly
what The Diplomatic Courier thinks, too . In its article, we learn that the United
States sold off its entire National Defense stockpile of titanium, beginning in the late 90's.
Perhaps not the brightest decision, considering the USA now imports 79% of its titanium, and
relies on it more than ever.
"United States-Russia relations have been perplexing in the last two years, and
tensions between the two increased in April when newly imposed sanctions were placed on
Russia. Because of these sanctions, Russia has threatened to halt titanium exports to the
United States. With a growing dependency on titanium, the result of this would be ruinous for
the United States defense industry and for aircraft manufacturers such as Boeing."
Ruinous – you don't say. I hope you'll understand, then, why the cynic in me is
suspicious as the United States turns on the indignation and sorrow when Ukraine's titanium
industry doesn't appear on the list of state assets to be privatized, and simultaneously claims
that such privatization is vital to modernizing the Ukrainian economy. Which is all Uncle Sam
really cares about. Honest.
Going back to the original reference, Daniel Witt waves the carrot under Ukraine's nose by
citing the UK and New Zealand as examples of successful privatization. Ukraine is hesitating,
he says, but it must go down the same path.
Curiously enough, a search using the term
"privatization a disaster for UK" yields contentions that privatization of state rail, bus
and water services have all yielded terrible results. Significantly, though, they have not been
a uniform failure – they have been great for business; in fact, the article describes
privatization as 'a bonanza'. Where they have been a disaster, using water services as an
example, is for users, the environment and those employed in the industry.
Transpose that situation to the titanium industry in Ukraine. Ask yourself how much the USA
would care if the environment in Ukraine suffered because of an ambitious new private producer
and his investors. How about if the workers got dicked over, and the 'bonanza' passed them by?
What about Friedman's implication that Einstein's Theory of Relativity was inspired by his
loyalty to capitalist principles, or that Henry Ford achieved such success because he was an
early advocate for free trade? If anything, his description of individuals pursuing their own
interests making the world go 'round in a manner which is pleasing to the gods of private
enterprise ought to serve as a warning.
You know, I think we're on the same page here. At least I hope so.
I thought to mention how the economics should work out with privatizing the penal system.
It should be easy enough; you simply legislate a conversion of the state itself into the
Gulag. Or invite in the IMF. Just now Kiev is under the gun to raise gas prices where the
pension is reduced in real value to something like $40 a month, the most recent figure we've
heard from our Ukrainian retiree buddy; insuring every Ukrainian must aspire to become a
criminal to survive. So, there's your legitimate rationale to create 'the first circle' of
Solzhenitsyn's dreams where everyone is a prisoner, and the state apparatus (bureaucrat) is
made up of a higher class of prisoner (I believe the term is 'trusty') in a position to skim
the scant rations. Uh, there might be a concern the averaged IQ of 90, typical of Americans
these days, might miss your closing irony
BTW, speaking of world class crimes, if you hadn't seen this one:
That's a great piece, Ron, and – as usual – you did not pull any punches. It's
inspiring to see someone actually trying to do something to force the ICC to notice and to
hold accused perpetrators to account. I hope your evidence is solid, because western
governments have any number of attorneys while western intelligence agencies are getting
pretty good at cover-ups – a natural consequence of having had their mistakes exposed
without incurring any penalty thereby. How smart do you have to be to write in your little
notebook "Don't do that again"?
it must be dangerous for you, so please be careful. Bolton's unmistakable statement that
the USA does not and will not recognize the authority or judgments of the ICC marks America
as a nation which reserves the right to operate outside the law. Imaginary America has always
prided itself on holding itself and its citizens to an even higher standard than any national
set of laws, and its refusal to be bound – 'restricted' might be a better word –
by the ICC should be a warning that it has already violated its rules of conduct, and knows
it.
It's important to note that this is only Friedman's opinion, and probably most who analyze
the course of human development over history would not attribute the work of geniuses as a
byproduct of either greed or capitalism. Often it's just a person or a team that is driven to
solve a problem, and prove that their solution works – it is the drive for
accomplishment, even glory, perhaps, rather than the drive for enrichment. A good example is
the drug industry; very seldom is the discoverer of a remedy motivated by profit. Very seldom
is he who gains control over the marketing of that discovery motivated by anything else.
Milton Friedman actually lived long enough (he died in 2006) to see his neoliberal policies
fail in Chile. The initial neoliberal economic experiment in that country as put together by
the notorious Chicago Boys (Chilean graduates in economics from the University of Chicago)
ran from the mid-1970s (after Augusto Pinochet took over as leader after the 1973 coup) to
1981: the year the Chilean banking sector had a meltdown. From then on, Pinochet steered the
economy back to mixed socialist / neoliberal policies but any credibility he still might have
had with the Chilean public was destroyed and he was a lame duck president until 1988. The
Falklands War and Argentina still being a military police state might have saved his bacon
for a while but once that country's government was out and a limited democracy was restored,
Pinochet's days were numbered.
That goes a long way toward explaining why Latynina worships Pinochet – she's as
Randian as they come, and considers herself a model of progressive enlightenment.
This is just Randroid intellectual excrement. These clowns worship at the altar of
self-organizing order out of chaos. But no such process exists for human society. The order
comes from collusion and ***conspiracy***. And it is all about hiding this from the gullible
masses that are to be fleeced by informed Randroids.
Russia imported this rubbish religion back during the early 1990s thanks to the Harvard
Boys and the comprador regime of Yeltsin. But by 1998 it was apparent that it definitely does
not account for western "prosperity" and Chernomyrdin proclaimed that the era of market
romanticism was over. This coincided with a real turn-around in the Russian economy and there
was a surge in GDP and industrial growth (overseen by Primakov and later Putin).
The "invisible hand" of Adam Smith is not taken in the same sense as used by Smith. Smith
did not actually say that the market is self-organizing. He knew that order requires planning
and power to issue orders (or coerce compliance via more abstract means such as your real
choices as a consumer). The notion that a gas of no-holds-barred self-interested entities can
produce optimal economic and social order is certifiably insane. The only reason this crap
manages to persist is that most people just don't have the mathematical (and to some extent
physics) education to see through it. So Randroids can engage in the same trickery as global
warming deniers, i.e. spew plausibly sounding rubbish.
Consider a system consisting of N elements (where N is large) and each element is
essentially more likely to undermine than support each other element (since they are all
ruthless competitors and totally self-interested). Any positive interactions would be
inadvertent and resulting from greed maximization. You have the show stopping bootstrap
problem. Before any positive coherence can develop in the system allowing for inadvertent net
benefit (individual and collective) interactions, you have primitive local interactions with
nearest-neighbours. In this absurd theory, the elements or humans would behave like bears (or
other solitary predators) and not the social animals that they are. There would be negligible
incentive to cooperate since nobody is rich and the presence of others is competition for
available resources. You would have each element trying to create an exclusive territory
since that is what gives maximal gain (as it does in the real world for various animal
species). Clearly this is the diametric opposite of real humans who form family communes and
optimize their survival through collaboration. This tribal socialism was there for good
reasons and not some accident of history. All "primitive" tribes are socialist and only
exhibit capitalist style greed and self-interest at the inter-tribe level since the dynamics
at this scale begin to resemble those for bears (thanks to the strong human tribalism and
group identification).
Without a process to form human society, Randroid theorizing is not even academic, it is
removed from relevance by its own contradictions. Society has always been a species of
socialism even it involved rule by kings and the development of aristocracy. The
justification for society was and remains the collective good. Tribes became kingdoms because
of the need for security and the incentive to develop the economy to provide better living
conditions. (This does not exclude various regimes where the peasant masses were actually
worse off than if they remained more "primative", but social development is not defined just
by the negative aspects).
Greed is good capitalism is a pathology enabled by social development. And it sells itself
using socialist benefits. That is why we have government, taxes, courts and laws. In the
Randroid theory all of these things are a hindrance to the well being of the greedy. But the
greedy would not have the riches to pillage without all this "inefficient" socialism to build
up society and the economy. These greedy should properly use the totally undeveloped
reference state for their baseline since there would not be any human society if humans
behaved like bears.
"Ayn Rand's 'philosophy' is nearly perfect in its immorality, which makes the size of
her audience all the more ominous and symptomatic as we enter a curious new phase in our
society . To justify and extol human greed and egotism is to my mind not only immoral, but
evil."
"Rand underwent surgery for lung cancer in 1974 after decades of heavy smoking.[97] In 1976,
she retired from writing her newsletter and, despite her initial objections, she allowed
social worker Evva Pryor, an employee of her attorney, to enroll her in ***Social Security
and Medicare.***[98][99] During the late 1970s her activities within the Objectivist movement
declined, especially after the death of her husband on November 9, 1979.[100] One of her
final projects was work on a never-completed television adaptation of Atlas Shrugged."
Friedman was just parsing Mandeville 1705's poem 'The Fable of the Bees' (and neither, in my
view, was entirely wrong – greed does incentivize):
T h e Root of Evil, Avarice,
That damn'd ill-natur'd baneful Vice,
Was Slave to Prodigality,
That noble Sin; whilst Luxury
Employ'd a Million of the Poor,
And odious Pride a Million more:
Envy it self, and Vanity,
Were Ministers of Industry;
Their darling Folly, Fickleness,
In Diet, Furniture and Dress,
That strange ridic'lous Vice, was made
The very Wheel that turn'd the Trade.
Their Laws and Clothes were equally
Objects of Mutability;
For, what was well done for a time,
In half a Year became a Crime;
Yet while they alter'd thus their Laws,
Still finding and correcting Flaws,
They mended by Inconstancy
Faults, which no Prudence could foresee.
T h u s Vice nurs'd Ingenuity,
Which join'd with Time and Industry,
Had carry'd Life's Conveniencies
It's real Pleasures, Comforts, Ease,
To such a Height, the very Poor
Liv'd better than the Rich before,
And nothing could be added more.
It's certainly true that not all the great accomplishments are the result of altruism,
perhaps not even half. And I suppose if I had to qualify it, I would say it is safe in a
process for the workers to be motivated by greed, if they must have a selfish motivation. But
if the overall controller of the effort is motivated by greed and the 'product' is something
everyone needs, some will surely have to go without because they will not be able to afford
it.
One has to consider the whole timeline of social evolution and not just the instantaneous
events of recent history. Various scientists back 200 years ago sponsored by the rich and
engaged in selfish pursuits would not be there in the first place if the only parameter
driving human "progress" was greed. There would be no rich either since they depend on the
conformity of the masses (peasants) to get rich. Randroid theories are not relevant for
humans and in fact not relevant for anything.
There is confusion about what the actual "7 deadly sins" are, and what are their
definitions.
For example, some people say "Greed" and some say "Avarice". There is a technical difference
between the two concepts, but I am not sure what it is.
There is also a confusion between "Envy" and "Jealousy".
And much confusion surrounding the concept of "Pride". Many modern people consider "Pride" to
be a positive virtue, not a sin. As in "Pride Week", or the like.
Jane Austen considered "Pride" to be a negative characteristic, synonym with "contumely".
Everybody agrees that "Gluttony" and "Lust" are sins, no second thoughts there
The difference between greed and avarice is that greed, being the more commonly used term, is
more general and vague in its meaning whereas avarice has a more specific meaning of intense
and compulsive greed and has connotations of rapacity. As one of the 7 Deadly Sins, Avarice
is the more correct concept.
In this context as well (of the 7 Deadly Sins), Pride refers to arrogance and belief in
one's own superiority over others.
Gluttony and Lust refer to the extreme and compulsive over-indulgence of the senses, to
the point where they become dulled and the person who indulges in gluttony and lust needs
more heightened and more extreme experiences to obtain the same levels of satisfaction.
Notice how such indulgence becomes an addiction that virtually rules the person's life.
Texting all day non-stop with smart phones should be one of the 7 deadlies!
The metro here is full of people (mostly women) doing this. Sometimes they are so bloody
busy talking about fuck-all non-stop, that when the doors open, they're still at it and you
can't get on or off.
Agree; and compulsively taking Selfies with one's phone should also be the 8th Deadly
sin.
Although maybe this fits into the category of "Vanity".
Speaking of which, some people say that "Vanity" rather than "Pride" is the deadly sin.
As in the movie
Bedazzled , I mean the original one with Dudley Moore, not the remake.
In that movie, the 7 sins are: Lust, Vanity, Anger, Envy, Gluttony, Avarice and Sloth.
I don't think Pride is actually a sin, depending. It could just mean just a feeling of
satisfaction or self-worth that one has accomplished something.
Whereas Vanity, as Pushkin noted, is more like a fascination with the notion of
celebrity.
Envy and jealousy were explained to me by my first Spanish teacher by reference to the iron
bars over street level windows.
The person outside, looks in with envy while the guy inside is jealous of what's his own.
It didn't hurt that the name of the set of bars in Spanish is "celosía."
Uh oh; Russia enacts sanctions against Ukraine which will, among other things, prohibit
transferring money from Russian to Ukrainian banks. There will still be ways for Ukrainian
workers in Russia to get their pay home to relatives in Ukraine, but it just got the official
Russian stamp of disapproval and it is going to be made more difficult.
There will also be embargoes against certain Ukrainian products (maybe it spells it out, I
didn't watch the whole thing yet).
This months gas tariff for "Ukrainians" increases by 24%!!
The context is that Ukrainian consumers have the lowest gas rate in Europe. Moldovan
households pay more for gas than do Ukrainian ones. Even with a 24% price increase Ukraine will
still have the cheapest gas in Europe for its consumers:
A huge line for free food at the charity kitchen in Kiev can be seen here: http://rusvesna.su/news/1539952343
(those who read Russian can find details in the accompanying news item).
I guess all of this is a great achievement of Maidan. Ukies, please comment.
Attempt to split the church were pretty much predictable, as it increases the level of sovereignty of the Ukrainian
state. So Poroshenko position is logical.
The problem here that there are not that many believers in eastern part of Ukraine. But there is substantial number of Uniate
believers in Western part of Ukraine.
Notable quotes:
"... Could it be that the Vatican is the principal force behind the 2014 Maidan uprising in Kiev, the regime-change operation in Ukraine, as a part of its millennium-old war against Russian Orthodoxy? ..."
"... a very clear way the textbook activities of color revolution conducted by that most powerful and respectable institution of soft power, a religious university - the Ukrainian Catholic University - with its own media group, its own business academy, and funding and contacts with many "philanthropies" from the west. It's also headed by an American bishop, with a substantial provenance and respected standing in US elite circles. ..."
"... The Catholic Church is losing its hold over the masses, losing its power, and yet continues with its war against the Orthodox side of the schism, and doubles down on tools of domination, experimenting in Ukraine and some other eastern European countries with ways to control a society - a clear threat to western Europe if it could but see it. ..."
Could it be that the Vatican is the principal force behind the 2014 Maidan uprising in
Kiev, the regime-change operation in Ukraine, as a part of its millennium-old war against
Russian Orthodoxy?
The article is a keeper - I recommend bookmarking it for reference if nothing else. It
details the events leading up to and following the Maidan, and illustrates in a very clear
way the textbook activities of color revolution conducted by that most powerful and
respectable institution of soft power, a religious university - the Ukrainian Catholic
University - with its own media group, its own business academy, and funding and contacts
with many "philanthropies" from the west. It's also headed by an American bishop, with a
substantial provenance and respected standing in US elite circles.
Although the article is long, it's very readable, and well translated.
Towards the end, it poses a view that I had never considered, but which resonates with the
trajectory of the more secular US empire. The Catholic Church is losing its hold over the
masses, losing its power, and yet continues with its war against the Orthodox side of the
schism, and doubles down on tools of domination, experimenting in Ukraine and some other
eastern European countries with ways to control a society - a clear threat to western Europe
if it could but see it.
I don't understand much about the recent moves of the Church in Ukraine, but anyone can
see how fraught are the faithful because of these lawless acts. I often forget the old battle
by Rome against Constantinople, but I have every inclination to believe it completely. This
article does a splendid job of detailing it and making it very visible.
".......Russia's
foreign minister has accused the open-source Bellingcat investigative team of acting as a front
for Western intelligence services seeking to manipulate public opinion.
Bellingcat has played a leading role in identifying the alleged names of two men accused
of trying to poison ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Britain this year. It has
previously published investigations that reportedly link Russia to the downing of flight MH17
in eastern Ukraine and suspected chemical attacks in Syria.
"It's no secret to anyone, Western journalists write openly that Bellingcat is connected to
special services," Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in an interview with Euronews
on Tuesday.
"They leak information through it to have some effect on public opinion," he
said......."
not seen till now though is any questioning of Bellingcat's credentials in mainstream
media. So let me hand you over, without further ado and with hearty if surprised approval,
to Mary Dejevsky: not known as a Kremlin stooge or Putin troll. Yet here she is, in today's
Independent, asking in all sincerity and with admirable bluntness just WTF is Bellingcat?
"... its russia and chinas job to assist america to reach the acceptance stage as peacefully as possible while allowing as much face saving as possible for washington and their ruling class. at the end of the day everyone wants to go on living. the next 15 years ought to be quite exciting. ..."
SKRIPALMANIA. Has now been completely outsourced to Bellingcat. Which tells the discerning observer two things: 1) there is
no evidence 2) the truth is probably the opposite. (And for those of you who take Bellingcat seriously: become discerning.)
To those of you who are like myself deeply sceptical about this story can I recommend this article in the UK Independent newspaper.
We should be asking for answers about the Skripals and Bellingcat – and not just from Russia. Mary Dejevsky.
Higgins has entered the polite academic space both in the Uk and the US in lightening speed. And as a result of that got special
attention by media. Not only that, but in the US he additionally joined an important cog of the EU-US think thank world. The Atlantic
Council made him a non-resident "Senior Fellow". As expert in digital forensics, open source and the future of Europe.
When the huge open source "gold rush" caught my attention in the early post 9/11 years, all the excited members I witnessed
more close up were quite system conform. That was after the Iraq war intelligence expertise. That's why it made me wonder. Thus,the
story of Eliot Higgins seems no outlier from my rather limited perspective.
And yes, I am with Paul Robinson, who a while ago noticed the same contradictions as Mary Dejevsky. On one hand the Russians
seem to be omnipotent, on the other they have all these bungling secret service members that are so easy to out. But notice not
by a bunch of laymen, but by a crowd led by a serious senior expert and academic. ;)
Higgins has entered the polite academic space both in the Uk and the US in lightening speed. And as a result of that got special
attention by media. Not only that, but in the US he additionally joined an important cog of the EU-US think thank world. The Atlantic
Council made him a non-resident "Senior Fellow". As expert in digital forensics, open source and the future of Europe.
When the huge open source "gold rush" caught my attention in the early post 9/11 years, all the excited members I witnessed
more close up were quite system conform. That was after the Iraq war intelligence expertise. That's why it made me wonder. Thus,the
story of Eliot Higgins seems no outlier from my rather limited perspective.
And yes, I am with Paul Robinson, who a while ago noticed the same contradictions as Mary Dejevsky. On one hand the Russians
seem to be omnipotent, on the other they have all these bungling secret service members that are so easy to out. But notice not
by a bunch of laymen, but by a crowd led by a serious senior expert and academic. ;)
I think some people here are actually taking Eliott Higgins far too seriously...he is still an uneducated underwear salesman...and
acts like it...case in point his recent twitter outburst at Ted Postol, calling him an 'idiot'...that just shows what a substance
free clown this guy is...
I briefly looked at that blog article linked to by snowflake and it is basically verbal diarrhea...bottom line is that Higgins
and that Bellincat 'outfit' are best simply ignored...not worth the time or mental bandwidth to even think about...
Atlantic Council has a very great Ph.D consultant, and strategists' strategist and tacticians' tactician, Dr. Blank. He, of all
places, taught in US Army War College. He taught, of course, about Russia, since he has Ph.D in Soviet/Russian "history" or whatever
passes as such in US "Russian Studies" field.
His strategic concepts are so devoid of even basic high school level knowledge of Russia (and her geography, BTW) that one
is forced to ask how is it even possible to have this kind of "experts"? Among many outlandish ideas Dr. Blank proposed in his
academic career dedicated to fighting evil Russians was to send US Navy to the Azov Sea to demonstrate the US Naval might.
This was one of the most profound facepalm moments of my life--I mean it. Not only Dr. Blank has no clue about Russia, he also
has no clue about US Navy. Yet, he is an expert, alright.
You left the best part out of that State Department policy statement. He announced a new position, the Senior Advisor for Russian
Malign Activities and Trends or SARMAT for short. That's straight out of the axis of evil mindset. How can we have a sober and
productive policy towards Russia with crap like this?
I thought that was from Duffleblog but you're right:
https://www.state.gov/p/eur...
Third para from the bottom. Part of that $380 million must be Bellingcat's budget.
I can't wait to see what awful person is selected for this role. Also, Sarmat is also the name for Russia's newest ICBM, which
makes one wonder what was on the back of their minds when they came up with this one.
washingtons foreign policy visa vie russia and china is as yet unable to reach the psychological stage of sublimation. frustrated,
angry and demoralised that they can not militarily atttack russia once and for all putting paid ....to who is the biggest dog
in the yard...... american elites lash out ineffectually using various media, economic and financial games to assuage their inability
to get their way.
each iteration of this plan becomes weaker and less effective than the previous one leading to more rage at being thwarted.
where the current crop of american ruling elites are concerned we are talking about 2 factors.... a profound lack of a really
good cosmopolitan education and a near total lack of appreciation for how weak the american industrial base has become the past
30 years (you can not intimidate powerful nations if your military technology is 1 or more generations BEHIND)
an apt understanding of washingtons dilemma is best grasped reading the kubler-ross stages of grieving over a dying loved one.
in this case the dying loved one is american exceptionalism and the l godlike power that goes with it for the 1/100 or 1%.
its russia and chinas job to assist america to reach the acceptance stage as peacefully as possible while allowing as much
face saving as possible for washington and their ruling class. at the end of the day everyone wants to go on living. the next
15 years ought to be quite exciting.
Where would we be without solid, honest citizen journalism like this? Bellingcat has passed
the CIA, MI5, Scotland Yard and the FBI and never looked back. In fact, we have not heard
Peep One from any of them since Bellingcat burst on the scene, and the British press goes
straight to print from its reports, to hell with waiting for informed comment from the
intelligence services or law enforcement.
Come to think about it, what are their countries paying them for?
I'm looking forward to the first Bellingcat spin-offs.
Eliot Higgins – Special Invesigator featuring Tom Cruise and introducing Sparky his
lovable mongrel dog which miraculously survived the Salisbury Novichok Massacre and can sniff
out GRU agents a mile away.
And following temporary employment reviewing orders at a Leicester UK women's underwear
manufacturer, the unemployed Higgins then "dispensed with looking for another job so that he
could devote himself to blogging full-time" and has now pogressed to being a senior fellow in
the "Digital Forensic Research Laboratory" and the "Future Europe Initiative", projects run
by the Washington, D.C based "think tank" the "Atlantic Council".
Higgins hard at work researching
A "kept man"? His wife must bring home the bacon then.
Well, she would if she were not a Turk.
The then 32-year-old Higgins started blogging about the civil war in Syria from his home
as Brown Moses: "He had no formal intelligence training or security clearance that gave him
access to classified documents. He could not speak or read Arabic. He had never set foot in
the Middle East, unless you count the time he changed planes in Dubai en route to Manila, or
his trip to visit his in-laws in Turkey".
As far as I am aware, he still has no credentials for his chosen field, albeit he is now a
"fellow" of this and that. He has also since bursting into the bloggosphere considerably put
on weight:
Higgins belongs to an obsessive coterie of self-appointed military intelligence experts
who use social media to piece together critical details of faraway conflicts, often well
ahead of seasoned professionals. Frequently self-taught and operating far outside the
military-industrial complex, these amateur analysts have honed a novel set of sleuthing
skills that fuse old-fashioned detective work with new sources of intelligence generated by
cell phone cameras and spread by social networks. Syria's war, widely considered the most
documented conflict in history, has turned social media into a weapon of mass detection --
critical both for fighters on the ground and for faraway observers trying to make sense of
the conflict.
The mind boggles: he and his fellow "amateur analysts" are often well ahead of seasoned
professionals. Frequently self-taught and operating far outside the military-industrial
complex !!!
Once upon a time, nobody would dare to do what they are doing because of the danger of a
ruinous lawsuit. But so long as he continues accusing the right people, the west will
safeguard him from that as best it can. Maybe that's the way to go. They've left themselves
without a retreat, saying this and that are 'confirmed'. Sue the outfit.
Note how Bellingtwat states that it has "conclusively" established the real identity of
Petrov on evidence gleaned from "multiple open sources" and "testimony from people familiar
with the person" in question.
How do they do this?
First to the post again and well ahead of all the Western intelligence agencies, which are
obviously understaffed with incompetents and not in possession of state-of-the-art means of
gathering intelligence such as . errrr, Facebook?
A few days ago, that lying old slag May appeared on stage at the Conservative Party annual
conference with Abba's "Dancing Queen" playing in the bacground. May appeared to be trying to
dance to the Abba hit. What a cupid old stunt!
And yesterday at an EUSSR Brussels conference, EU chief-executive and piss-artist Juncker
appears to have been possibly trying to take the piss out of that old, lying bag May's
gyrations:
Yes, their resources really do beat all, don't they? Able to trawl through Russians' private
records at will, even those ominously marked, "Not for public release". But then, they have
lots of willing helpers inside Russia, which the western intelligence agencies officially
have not. Makes you wonder how Russia can miss catching them, innit, considering the
intertubes are strictly controlled in Russia and all their intelligence transactions are in
the public domain? I mean, with their troll farms and all their snoopy organizations?
Bellingcrap could have just mentioned its sources during the course of its article instead of
proclaiming that it's going to detail in another post to be supposedly published today (9
October 2018) the methodology it and The Insider Russia used and the information trail
established. Perhaps a sign that Bellingcrap is starting to feel some pressure to lift its
game to a level acceptable to its masters at The Atlantic Council?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. BellEndCat can only manage the former.
Still, it's good enough for the BBC who this morning spoke to a (former?) Georgian minister
who was saying that if the West was united and stopped Russia from invading Georgia in 2008,
then Ukraine, Crimea, Skripals etc. wouldn't have happened, followed by BBC correspondent
Norton who said that 'was about right'.
"... As the hoax unravels, the real story of "foreign collusion" comes out ..."
"... This entire episode has Her Majesty's Secret Service's fingerprints all over it. Steele's key role is plain enough: here was a British spook who was not only hired by the Clinton campaign to dig up dirt on Trump but was unusually passionate about his work – almost as if he'd have done it for free. And then there was the earliest approach to the Trump campaign, made by Cambridge professor and longtime spook Stefan Halper to Carter Page. And then there's the mysterious alleged "link" to Russian intelligence, Professor Joseph Mifsud, whose murky British-based thinktank managed to operate openly despite later claims it was a Russian covert operation. ..."
"... It was Mifsud who orchestrated the Russia-gate hoax, first suggesting that the Russians had Hillary Clinton's emails, and then disappearing into thin air as soon as the story he had planted percolated into plain view. Some "Russian agent"! ..."
"... Trump's decision to walk back his announcement that the key Russia-gate intelligence would be declassified tells us almost as much as if he'd tweeted it out, unredacted. For what it tells us is that public knowledge of the contents would constitute a major break in relations with at least one key ally. ..."
"... So here we have it at last, the final truth of Russia-gate: yes, there was indeed foreign collusion in the 2016 election, but it came from the opposite direction than the media are telling us. We weren't attacked by Russia: a few thousand dollars in Facebook ads that nobody saw did not put Trump in the White House. Our democratic process was undermined, not by the supposedly omnipotent Vladimir Putin but by the intelligence agencies of some of our more beloved "allies." We were attacked by a tag -team, both foreign and domestic, intent on ousting a democratically-elected President by any means necessary. ..."
"... When those subsidies, subventions, and special privileges are threatened, as they are by the nationalist cheapskate Trump, who would gladly demolish the whole decrepit, dated, and dangerous cold war architecture with a wave of his hand. A US President who puts America first? They can't allow it. ..."
"... The global Establishment has risen up against the People. ..."
As the hoax unravels, the real story of "foreign collusion" comes out
The
conspiracy to overthrow a sitting US President extends far beyond our own "Deep State." As I've
been
saying in this space for quite some time, it's been an international team effort from the
beginning. Setting aside the British origins of the obscene "dossier" compiled by "ex"-MI6
agent Christopher Steele, we now have further confirmation of foreign involvement in President
Trump's
decision to delay (perhaps indefinitely) the declassification of key Russia-gate documents.
While US intelligence officials were expected to oppose the move, "Trump was also swayed by
foreign allies, including Britain, in deciding to reverse course, these people said. It wasn't
immediately clear what other governments may have raised concerns to the White House."
But of course the Washington Post knows perfectly well which other governments would
have reason to raise "concerns" to the White House. It's clear from the public record that the
following "allies" have rendered the "Resistance" essential assistance at one time or
another:
United Kingdom – This entire episode has Her Majesty's Secret Service's
fingerprints all over it. Steele's key role is plain enough: here was a British spook who was
not only hired by the Clinton campaign to dig up dirt on Trump but was unusually passionate
about his work – almost as if he'd have done it for free. And then there was the
earliest approach to the Trump campaign, made by Cambridge professor and longtime spook
Stefan Halper to Carter
Page. And then there's the mysterious alleged "link" to Russian intelligence, Professor
Joseph Mifsud, whose murky British-based thinktank managed to operate openly despite later
claims it was a Russian covert operation.
It was Mifsud who orchestrated the Russia-gate hoax, first suggesting that the Russians
had Hillary Clinton's emails, and then disappearing into thin air as soon as the story he had
planted percolated into plain view. Some "Russian agent"!
Australia – Why would the former Australian High Commissioner to the UK seek
out George Papadopoulos, a low-level semi-advisor to the Trump campaign, and milk him for
information while getting him drunk?
Israel – So how did Papadopoulos find himself spilling his guts at a bar
with a top Australian intelligence figure? The Times reports that "The meeting at the
bar came about because of a series of connections, beginning with an Israeli Embassy official
who introduced Mr. Papadopoulos to another Australian diplomat in London."
Estonia – The Times and other outlets report that a "Baltic
intelligence agency" was the first to relay "concerns" about Russian influence over the Trump
team. I'm willing to bet it was the Estonians, who have always been the most actively
anti-Russian actors in the region.
Ukraine – Democratic National Committee members actually met with Ukrainian
government leaders in an attempt to uncover dirt on Trump. Working together with the DNC,
Democratic official and Ukrainian lobbyist Alexandra Chalupa received active assistance from
the Ukrainian embassy, which became a veritable
locus of Clintonian campaign operations.
This is part of the price we pay for our vaunted "empire," and the "liberal international
order" the striped-pants set is so on about. As that grizzled old "isolationist" prophet, Garet
Garrett, described the insignia of empire at the dawn of the cold war:
"There is yet another sign that defines itself gradually. When it is clearly defined it may
be already too late to do anything about it. That is to say, a time comes when Empire finds
itself –
"A prisoner of history.
"The history of a Republic is its own history . A Republic may change its course, or
reverse it, and that will be its own business., But the history of Empire is a world history,
and belongs to many people."
A Republic may restrain itself, wrote Garrett, but "Empire must put forth its power" –
on whose behalf? There are many claimants whose wealth, position, and prestige depend on the
Imperial largesse. When that claim is threatened, the "satellites" turn against their
protector. This is what the Russia-gate covert action -- carried out by coordinated action of
our "allies" – is all about. We now have clear evidence of just how far our "client"
states are willing go to ensure that the American gravy train of free goodies continues to
flow.
Trump's decision to walk back his announcement that the key Russia-gate intelligence would
be declassified tells us almost as much as if he'd tweeted it out, unredacted. For what it
tells us is that public knowledge of the contents would constitute a major break in relations
with at least one key ally.
So here we have it at last, the final truth of Russia-gate: yes, there was indeed foreign
collusion in the 2016 election, but it came from the opposite direction than the media are
telling us. We weren't attacked by Russia: a few thousand dollars in Facebook ads that nobody
saw did not put Trump in the White House. Our democratic process was undermined, not by the
supposedly omnipotent Vladimir Putin but by the intelligence agencies of some of our more
beloved "allies." We were attacked by a tag -team, both foreign and domestic, intent on ousting
a democratically-elected President by any means necessary.
Here is the final irrefutable argument against America as the "world leader," designated
champion of the "liberal international order" – we become, as Garrett noted, a prisoner
of history. Indeed, we are no longer entitled to write our own history, but must endure the
lobbying and aggressive interventions of our ungrateful and spiteful "allies," whose welfare
states could not exist without generous US "defense" subsidies.
When those subsidies, subventions, and special privileges are threatened, as they are by the
nationalist cheapskate Trump, who would gladly demolish the whole decrepit, dated, and
dangerous cold war architecture with a wave of his hand. A US President who puts America first?
They can't allow it.
And that's really the essence of the fight, the issue that will determine the woof and warp
of American politics in the new millennium. The global Establishment has risen up against the
People. There's no telling what the outcome will be, but one thing I know for sure: I know what
side I'm on. Do you?
"... Kiev has become an accidental, burdensome ally to the West. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization only paid lip service to future Ukrainian membership, while the EU, which never had any intention of taking in Ukraine, pushed an association agreement out of bureaucratic habit more than strategic vision. ..."
"... The least charitably inclined claim that Poroshenko prosecuted the war in eastern Ukraine as a way of delaying reform. What's undeniable is that the shaky ceasefire leaves the Kiev government at the mercy of Putin and his proxies. Should anything start going right for Poroshenko, the fighting could flare back up at any moment. ..."
"... Everybody in Kiev understands that there's no way of reconquering lost territory by force. Ukrainian politicians publicly pledge to win back breakaway regions through reform and economic success. What they hope for is that sanctions will cause enough problems inside Russia that the Kremlin will run out of resources to sabotage Ukraine. Wishful thinking won't replace the painful reforms ahead. ..."
May 19, 2015 | http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/05/17/why-this-ukrainian-revolution-may-be-doomed-too/
At home, there is the possibility of more protests, a paralyzed government, and the rise of politicians seeking accommodation
with Putin. "Slow and unsuccessful reforms are a bigger existential threat than the Russian aggression," said Oleksiy Melnyk, a security
expert at Kiev's Razumkov Center. Even if Ukrainians don't return to the street, they'll get a chance to voice their discontent at
the ballot box. Local elections are due in the fall - and the governing coalition between Poroshenko and Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk
is so shaky that nobody can rule out an early parliamentary vote.
In its international relations, Ukraine is living on borrowed time - and money. A dispute over restructuring $23 billion in debt
broke into the open last week with the Finance Ministry accusing foreign creditors of not negotiating in good faith ahead of a June
deadline. An EU summit this week is likely to end in more disappointment, as Western European countries are reluctant to grant Ukrainians
visa-free travel.
Kiev has become an accidental, burdensome ally to the West. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization only paid lip service to future
Ukrainian membership, while the EU, which never had any intention of taking in Ukraine, pushed an association agreement out of bureaucratic
habit more than strategic vision.
... ... ...
The least charitably inclined claim that Poroshenko prosecuted the war in eastern Ukraine as a way of delaying reform. What's
undeniable is that the shaky ceasefire leaves the Kiev government at the mercy of Putin and his proxies. Should anything start going
right for Poroshenko, the fighting could flare back up at any moment.
Ukrainian security officials say that the enemy forces gathering in the separatist regions are at their highest capability yet.
The most alarming observation is that the once ragtag band of rebels - backed up by regular Russian troops in critical battles -
is increasingly looking like a real army thanks to weapons and training provided by Russia.
... ... ...
Everybody in Kiev understands that there's no way of reconquering lost territory by force. Ukrainian politicians publicly pledge
to win back breakaway regions through reform and economic success. What they hope for is that sanctions will cause enough problems
inside Russia that the Kremlin will run out of resources to sabotage Ukraine. Wishful thinking won't replace the painful reforms
ahead.
The command "Set fire and go" was given to mercenaries who stood behind the tragic events in the House of Trade
Unions in Odessa. Israeli journalist Anna Stefan presented these shocking details in her investigation.
Subscribe to Vesti News https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa8MaD6gQscto_Nq1i49iew?sub_confirmation=1 The command
"Set fire and go" was given to mercenaries who stood behind the tragic events
That's amazingly good stuff; Richardson is a captivating writer. I think the upcoming
elections in Ukraine will be a watershed moment; if Tymoshenko is elected, it will guarantee
X more years of the same kind of oligarchic grab-the-cash leadership. However, Ukraine
probably will not last that long – but there don't seem to be any credible candidates
running who would stand a chance of uniting the country, leading change and walking the
tightrope to prosperity.
An opinion columnist for my local paper, Jack Knox (quite a funny guy in his own right)
recently came out with
a template-style aid for spotting candidates for office, by type, and what their
platforms really mean. The election concerned here is a very minor one, just for city
council, but it fits well for any size and type of election except most slates are nowhere
near as large.
Just finished posting
this 2-parter on Ukrainian language policy. Russian-speakers have taken to creative methods
of resistance to Nationalist bullying.
Ends with a true story about an everyday Resister in a shop.
This is Ukrainian future, unless the government neoliberal policies
change...
Notable quotes:
"... The fact that Brussels euroclowns celebrated in triumph the exit of Greece from the memorandum agreement, should be taken only as a huge farce. ..."
"... Greece entered the bailout program with national debt at 120% of GDP. Now, the debt remains close to 180% of GDP! Unemployment remains at record levels. Public property has been sold-off for pennies to foreign 'investors'. Labor rights almost vanished, the situation resembles the Middle Ages. Social state and benefits severely damaged. This is the Troika 'success story'. ..."
"... This contradiction could be explained by the fact that the neoliberal regime apparatus wants to send a warning sign to Tsipras administration not to take any action without permission. It is more than certain that the tight scrutiny will be continued and Tsipras must prove to the Western neocolonialists that he will not even think to implement any anti-austerity policies. ..."
"... Without a bailout program, Greece will be left alone now to swim with the bloodthirsty sharks of the global financial mafia in the wild sea of the supposedly 'free markets'. ..."
"... Either way, the debt colony will deliver to the predators every single asset that has been left untouched. ..."
The fact that Brussels euroclowns celebrated in triumph the exit of Greece
from the memorandum agreement, should be taken only as a huge farce.
The Troika (ECB, European Commission, IMF) bailout program has officially
ended and the result is a scenery of disaster. If you still believe that this
program has been implemented to save the Greek economy and not the
Franco-German banks , take a look at the situation today.
Greece entered the bailout program with national debt at 120% of GDP. Now,
the debt remains close to 180% of GDP! Unemployment remains at record levels.
Public property has been sold-off for pennies to foreign 'investors'. Labor
rights almost vanished, the situation resembles the Middle Ages. Social state
and benefits severely damaged. This is the Troika 'success story'.
So, in reality, the experiment was indeed successful for the goals of the
international capitalist predators who transformed the country into a debt colony.
For more than eight years, they boiled the frog slowly with the help of Troika,
and now it's impossible to escape from the hot water.
While the clowns in Brussels had to present a 'success story' to cover their
huge failure and slow down the centrifugal forces against eurozone's existence
and unity, the mainstream media didn't exactly celebrate. Most of the headlines
were quite moderate and even alarming for the future of the Greek economy.
This contradiction could be explained by the fact that the neoliberal regime
apparatus wants to send a warning sign to Tsipras administration not to take
any action without permission. It is more than certain that the tight scrutiny
will be continued and Tsipras must prove to the Western neocolonialists that
he will not even think to implement any anti-austerity policies.
It is worth to mention that most of the neutral/pessimistic headlines came
from the Anglo-American mainstream media. This could be also considered another
indication about the level of deterioration in the relations between the Anglo-American
axis and the Brussels-Berlin axis, inside the Western camp.
Greece will have to give much more to the Western neoliberal predators. Otherwise,
the rating agencies will be ordered to attack again and force the ruined Greek
economy into another round of disastrous bailouts.
Either way, the debt colony will deliver to the predators every single asset
that has been left untouched.
Note from the author : As friends have quickly pointed out, the situation
is even worse than described here. Quarterly reviews by the troika will continue.
The German Bundestag will still vote on any debt deferrals, and -- as I do stress
-- the crushing austerity will continue indefinitely. A nightmare.
2010 to 2018 will go down in Greek history as an epic period of colonization;
of asset stripping and privatization; of unfunded health and education; of bankruptcies,
foreclosures, homelessness, and impoverishment; of unemployment, emigration,
and suicide. These were the years of the three memoranda, or "financial-assistance
programs" accompanied by "structural reforms," enacted supposedly to promote
Greek "recovery" from the slump and credit crunch of 2010. They were, in fact,
a fraud perpetrated on Greece and Europe, a jumble of bad policies based on
crude morality tales that catered to right-wing politics to cover up unpayable
debts.
This was a bailout? The word reeks of indulgence and implied disapproval. As
it was often said, "The Greeks had their party and now they must pay." Yes,
there was a party -- for oligarchs with ships and London homes and Swiss bank
accounts, for the military, for engineering and construction and armaments companies
from Germany and France and the United States. And yes, there was a bailout.
It came from Europe's taxpayers, and went to the troubled banks of France and
Germany. Greece was merely the pass-through, and the Greeks who paid dearly
with their livelihoods were just the patsies in the deal. The third "memorandum
of understanding" expires today. With Greece's
completion
of a three-year, 61.9-billion-euro eurozone emergency-loan package, it can once
again borrow at market rates. The expiration of the memorandum also ends, for
now, the direct control by Europe's "troika" -- the International Monetary Fund,
the European Commission, and the European Central Bank -- over the Greek government.
But its conditions, constraints, and consequences will endure.
Read also: Conference of the modern Left in Iceland: learning from each other
Back in 2010, Greece, along with Portugal, Spain, Ireland, and Italy, was
definitely in trouble. The Great Financial Crisis crashed into all of Europe,
but it hit the weaker countries hardest -- and Greece was the
weakest of them all. Its economy shrunk by a quarter, and youth unemployment
rose to roughly 50 percent. The memorandum was, for all concerned, the easy
way out. It started a game of "extend and pretend" on the Greek debt, based
on optimistic forecasts and on policies of reform that had no basis in the reality
of Greek economic conditions.
The policies came from the IMF -- its standard repertory of austerity and
"reform." But its staff and directors knew from the beginning that these measures
would not suffice. IMF executive directors from Australia, Switzerland, Brazil,
and China voiced objections. Channels were therefore bypassed, objections ignored.
The Fund was nearly out of work and money because of the failures of its programs
-- and the relative success of countries that ignored them -- all over the world.
And its managing director at the time wished to be the next president of France.
So Greece, which is to say its creditors -- especially French and German banks
-- received the largest loan in IMF history (relative to its ownership share).
And that 289-billion-euro loan came largely from U.S. taxpayers.
In Athens, teams of functionaries from the Fund, the European Central Bank,
and the European Commission came to Greece, where they stayed in fancy hotels
at Greek expense and were escorted by uniformed police from ministry to ministry
to dictate policy in detail. (Such a nice gig, in a warm and sunny place, so
close to the sea.) In 2015, they were lodged for a time in a four-star hotel,
deprived of their convoys, and given protection by elite forces dressed in plain
clothes. They didn't like that at all, and their bosses, Mario Draghi and Christine
Lagarde, complained loudly on their behalf.
And what of the policies? Public assets were to be dumped en masse at fire-sale
prices, but only if they were already profitable. (Regional airports making
losses, for example, stayed with the state.) Dutch dairies and German drug companies
were taken care of. Labor markets were deregulated while collective bargaining
was wiped out -- an unethical experiment on an untenable premise. Neither German
nor Chinese industry was moving to Greece even if the Greeks worked for free.
The value-added tax was raised, pensions were cut, and hundreds of thousands
of civil servants were sacked. Ministries lost cleaning ladies, who set up camp,
bless them, in front of the Ministry of Finance. The Greeks rebelled in 2015,
as they were right to do. But the European Central Bank held the high card:
It could shut the banks and confiscate deposits, forcing Greece out of the euro
and perhaps out of the European Union. The government, undermined from within,
capitulated. The third memorandum was signed, and Syriza, the left-wing coalition
that had swept into power in January, by that July had become the model prisoner
of the European elites.
The irony is that in 2012 Greece's debts were already postponed, so that
from late 2015 to 2022 there would be a grace period with relatively few major
payments due. Now there is a primary-budget surplus and the markets need not
be tested. So the memorandum can end, but austerity will not; the debt still
looms in the long term, so the commitment to surplus extends for more than 40
years. In any event, the Greeks' will to resistance appears to have been broken,
so it seems safe enough to leave them alone. For now.
But the damage done extends far beyond Greece. The cynicism and brutality
of what happened there is for everyone to see. The fact that Europe imposed
a policy of privation on one of its weakest members -- not for its own sake,
and not with any expectation of economic success, but to intimidate the Italians
and the French, as the German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble conceded to
the Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis privately in 2015 -- was not lost
on British voters who chose Brexit in 2016. The Greek debacle helped to turn
the French left against Europe, and fueled the inchoate coalition now in power
in Italy. The German and east European far right is surely not motivated by
sympathy -- on the contrary, they despise the Greeks. But they do resent the
supposed "solidarity" -- a fiction if ever there was one -- that Germany's Chancellor
Angela Merkel and her allies invoked to sell their parliaments and voters on
the idea of the Greek loans.
Europe is therefore rotting Hat both ends. Its economy must remain unified,
but it is coming apart at its political seams. It needs institutions and policies
of social stabilization, financial reform, and full employment -- a dramatic
change in ideas and action at the continental level to thwart the rising tide
of nationalist reaction. There is therefore a growing sense, among those who
are watching closely, that a major democratic reform -- a New Deal for Europe
-- is the only way to hold it together in the long run.
* James K. Galbraith is author of Welcome to the Poisoned Chalice: The Destruction
of Greece and the Future of Europe . In 2015 he served as an informal assistant
to the finance minister of Greece.
"... In this version of 21st century slavery, all these disadvantages have been eliminated! Slaves stay in their homecountry: there is no need to bring them from there, no need to live amongst them and to feed them! Slaves are forced to work hard in the hope of paying off their debt, so they are motivated and hardworking. And most importantly, no civil war in the USA! ..."
This year, the Ukraine Prime Minister Groisman said that the external debt is 83% of the GDP. And by the end of the year, having
been pressurized by the IMF, it will reach 90%. In order to service its external debts, the Ukraine spends $4.8 billion a year.
This is real slavery - only a new, improved version of it. From the 17th to the 19 centuries, slavery in [the North American
British colonies and then - ME] the United States had a number of serious deficiencies: slaves had to be brought all the way from
Africa; slaves were not extremely industrious; Americans themselves had to live amongst the slaves; and, most unpleasantly, all
this led to civil war in the United States.
In this version of 21st century slavery, all these disadvantages have been eliminated! Slaves stay in their homecountry: there
is no need to bring them from there, no need to live amongst them and to feed them! Slaves are forced to work hard in the hope
of paying off their debt, so they are motivated and hardworking. And most importantly, no civil war in the USA!
Russian ships typically carry oil products from Turkmenistan via Russian ports and the
Sea of Azov to the Ukrainian ports of Odessa, Kherson and Nikolayev during summer, partly by
river.
They also ship sunflower seed oil from Ukraine, and those operations have also been
suspended, according to the sources.
"No one wants their ship to get stuck (in Ukrainian waters) with a cargo, which had
been paid for," another source at a Russian shipping company said
####
Ukraine has huge problems because far right nationalists while hate corruption, do not control economics and oligarchs who
control it do not intent to share their profits with the population, who is on the edge of starvation.
Breaking economic ties with Russia helped to relegate Ukraine to semi-colonial status as without cooperation with Russian
industries and access to Russian market (which they know very well) many Ukrainian manufacturing industries are less
viable..
Ukraine was already converted into debt-slave, and it is extremely difficult to climb out of this hole without default.
At the same time it serves are powerful anti-Russian force in the region and as such will be semi-supported by both the USA
and EU. for example attacks on Ukrainian currency probably will be avoided.
This is a variant of " don't cry for me Argentina" situation.
Notable quotes:
"... Notably that while the west is gradually leaning toward dumping Ukraine and hoping Russia will solve the problem, the warning signs are there that Russia has no intention of bailing out an exhausted Ukraine, and that this time it is going to be allowed to fail all the way down. The west should be warned that nobody is riding to the rescue and pouring their resources into stabilizing Ukraine – if the west cannot do it, the alternative is collapse and draining emergency work to keep the population from starvation. Prosperity is an impossible dream now, and the people – I think – would be pretty happy to be back where they were before the glorious Maidan. ..."
"... Interestingly, something that was not touched upon in the 'Necessary' section was the elimination of the oligarchy in Kiev and other major cities. I will declare frankly that I have no idea how this might be achieved – as discussed before several times, the Ukrainian oligarchs control something in the order of 70% of Ukrainian GDP, and are not about to gift any of it back to the Ukrainian state. ..."
"... You'll know there's no more money in Ukraine when the oligarchs leave, and I see no sign of that so far, while it is evident they intend to be a big part of any future rebuilding. They've already successfully stolen most of the IMF money, and plainly think an even bigger payday is still in the offing. ..."
"... Eventually, if the USA is unsuccessful in forcing the outbreak of another world war, the west will get around to either asking Russia to help, or trying to dump Ukraine on Russia. ..."
"... Whatever happens, the dream of Ukrainian nationalists to forge a great and powerful ... nation of Ukraine is always going to remain that – a dream. They're happy enough at present scampering about in the ruins and glorying in their imagination of great power, but they are kings of the dungheap without any clue of nation-building. ..."
"... The few who both hated Russia and honestly aspired to a Great Ukraine – free of corruption and able to pay its way through judicious management of its undeniable resources and casting off the peasant mentality – have no influence, and operate at the pleasure of the power-brokers; they are allowed to dabble at anti-corruption until their probing becomes uncomfortable, and then they are discredited and fired, if not charged with the crimes they say they are investigating. ..."
That is indeed an interesting piece – generally speaking, we most enjoy writing with
which we agree, and I mostly agree with it and feel the ring of familiarity, because some of
it is what we have been saying here for a couple of years. Notably that while the west is
gradually leaning toward dumping Ukraine and hoping Russia will solve the problem, the
warning signs are there that Russia has no intention of bailing out an exhausted Ukraine, and
that this time it is going to be allowed to fail all the way down. The west should be warned
that nobody is riding to the rescue and pouring their resources into stabilizing Ukraine
– if the west cannot do it, the alternative is collapse and draining emergency work to
keep the population from starvation. Prosperity is an impossible dream now, and the people
– I think – would be pretty happy to be back where they were before the glorious
Maidan.
Interestingly, something that was not touched upon in the 'Necessary' section was the
elimination of the oligarchy in Kiev and other major cities. I will declare frankly that I
have no idea how this might be achieved – as discussed before several times, the
Ukrainian oligarchs control something in the order of 70% of Ukrainian GDP, and are not about
to gift any of it back to the Ukrainian state.
But for so long as Ukraine continues to elect one oligarch after another to the office of
President, the oligarch of the moment will be far more occupied with increasing his/her
personal wealth and power, and settling scores with rivals, than with governance and
accountability. At the same time, there is no use hoping the President will be a poor man or
woman, because they generally do not have the worldly education to grasp the problem and
envision solutions while being simultaneously beset from all sides by the oligarchy, seeking
to retain its power and influence.
You'll know there's no more money in Ukraine when the oligarchs leave, and I see no
sign of that so far, while it is evident they intend to be a big part of any future
rebuilding. They've already successfully stolen most of the IMF money, and plainly think an
even bigger payday is still in the offing.
The United States has largely forgotten Ukraine, as it was only ever a pretext for a
full-court press against Russia anyway, and it now has enough Russophobia sustainment in its
ditzy population to press forward without the need to invoke sympathy for Ukraine. Europe is
still quite interested in a resolution, but only because of its fear that it is going to get
stuck with the booby prize, and be made to assume responsibility for getting Ukraine on its
feet somehow, perhaps even absorbing it. Eventually, if the USA is unsuccessful in
forcing the outbreak of another world war, the west will get around to either asking Russia
to help, or trying to dump Ukraine on Russia.
Whatever happens, the dream of Ukrainian nationalists to forge a great and powerful
... nation of Ukraine is always going to remain that – a dream. They're happy enough at
present scampering about in the ruins and glorying in their imagination of great power, but
they are kings of the dungheap without any clue of nation-building.
The few who both hated Russia and honestly aspired to a Great Ukraine – free of
corruption and able to pay its way through judicious management of its undeniable resources
and casting off the peasant mentality – have no influence, and operate at the pleasure
of the power-brokers; they are allowed to dabble at anti-corruption until their probing
becomes uncomfortable, and then they are discredited and fired, if not charged with the
crimes they say they are investigating.
Well said. Presumably, the Donbass will pull away from Ukraine and vote to joint Russia and
Russia will approve for any number of reasons but certainly including humanitarian,
ethnic/cultural connections and military considerations. Other regions such as Odessa could
jump aboard as well.
There may be a mass exodus from what is left – the grifter to the West and those
seeking a better life to the east. The Nazis will remain behind and may serve some purpose
such as providing a pool of mercenaries for CIA projects.
I, for one, do not think the Donbass will be an overwhelming economic burden in the long
run. The population has shown resolve and resilience. Given leadership and material aid, they
can rebuild fairly quickly I think.
Oh, dear; Ukraine has more or less lost its case before the WTO, in which it wept that Russia's unfair imposition of an embargo
on its railway cars and rolling stock constituted a violation which caused a former $3.2 Billion in annual sales – more than it
realizes from transit fees for carrying Russian gas to Europe – to collapse to $150 Million. The WTO bought the Russian rationale
that Russian inspectors going to Ukraine to ensure the product conformed to Russian standards would be in fear of their lives.
But the WTO ruled that the security situation was such that Russian inspectors sent to check that Ukraine's exports complied
with Russian standards would have been risking their lives, and Russia was therefore justified in not sending them to Ukraine.
"The panel fully agreed with Russia's position and recognized that there was no systematic restriction of imports of Ukrainian
equipment by Russia," Russia's Ministry of Trade and Economy said in a statement.
The WTO did go on to say Russia could have carried out the inspections outside Ukraine, but therein lies a sandbag to the head
that Ukraine probably spotted already – if Russian inspectors found shoddy work or any other reason to refuse the offered goods,
to say nothing of the probability that no contracting position between the two countries even exists any more, then Ukraine would
be out the sale plus whatever costs it incurred to ship the goods outside Ukraine.
In the Polish capital of Warsaw a fortnight ago, Igor Kolomoisky met secretly with
Yulia Tymoshenko. The reason for the secrecy is the terms of exchange which they discussed.
These include Tymoshenko's agreement that if she is elected president in Kiev in eight
months' time with Kolomoisky's support, he will get relief from Ukrainian state pursuit of
billions of his dollars currently frozen on British court orders.
Kolomoisky wants relief from prosecution by the Ukrainian courts and the National Bank
of Ukraine (NBU) for theft, fraud and unjust enrichment of $1,911,877,385 from Privatbank,
which Kolomoisky lost control of in a state takeover in December 2016. For the story of the
looting of Privatbank, and the diversion of the International Monetary Fund's Emergency
Liquidity Assistance (ElA) loans to the NBU, and from there to Privatbank, read this archive
.
####
Anyone willing to place odds on Yulia stabbing Kolomostomy in the back once elected? I think
she will as the current environment affords her the opportunity to reform the Ukraine and
cement a positive image of her for prosperity. I think the EU/whatever would be willing to
back her all the way as the least worst alternative who would also offer the chance to get
out of the hole they've dug themselves with Russia. After all, if Yulia makes up with
Pootie-Poot, who to the west would meaningfully object? Maybe this would be the Ukraine
equivalent of what happened at the end of 1999 in Russia. At some point the cycle has to be
broken. Either this is even more revolution/revulsion/chaos or someone grabs the bullshit by
the horns.
Russia does not have too many options right now when it comes to Ukraine; and Yoolia might
well be the lesser of several evils. A plus is that Pootie-Poot has bedded
worked with Yulia successfully in the past.
Kolomostomy – I just shook my head in amazement. Kudos; I wish I had thought of that.
I'm betting Yooolia will just be Poroshenko with breasts. All right, then; Poroshenko with
woman breasts. Reforming Ukraine would be hard and thankless work, and so far as I am aware,
Yooolia is not into work of any kind. She is also an oligarch, like Poroshenko, with perhaps
an even more opaque accounting of her personal wealth – when she's driving around in a
fabulous luxury car, it was lent to her by a friend; when she's living in a luxurious house,
someone she knows let her stay there for free. Poor girl hasn't got a bean; just lots of rich
friends. Personally, I would submit that bodes ill for the Yooolia-will-fix-it hopefuls.
It's just a pity Ukraine can't get anything done unless either a billionaire or a Nazi is
in charge,
It used to be that the only things one could depend on were "death & taxes." Now of
course we must add to that list the very dependable presence of CIA / State Dept lies
parroted by MSM all over the West. Lies which are endlessly repeated in defiance of all
physical reality and often in direct opposition to actual events in the actual world we live
in.
From the Ukraine coup, to Russia-gate, to the "Assad's gassing his own people" regime
change propaganda, to the totally surreal Alice in Wonderland Skripnal poisoning nonsense in
the U.K, the Western MSM have been as dependable as the rising sun.
They can and do provide
fact-free, evidence-free reporting directly from the bowels of the deep state in support of
the neocolonial West, including unending support for the never ending resort to mass violence
the West relies upon to keep the rest of the planet subjugated -- just as it has for the last
500+ years.
Corporate Media's About-Face on Ukraine's Neo-Nazis July 5, 2018 •
59 Comments
U.S. corporate media spent years dismissing the role of neo-Nazis in Ukraine's 2014 coup but
it is suddenly going through a conversion, as Daniel Lazare reports.
By Daniel Lazare Special to Consortium News
Last month a freelance journalist named Joshua
Cohen published an
article in The Washington Post about the Ukraine's growing neo-Nazi threat.
Despite a gratuitous swipe at Russia for allegedly exaggerating the problem (which it hasn't),
the piece was fairly accurate.
Entitled "Ukraine's ultra-right militias are challenging the government to a showdown," it
said that fascists have gone on a rampage while the ruling clique in Kiev closes its eyes for
the most part and prays that the problem somehow goes away on its own.
Thus, a group calling itself C14 (for the fourteen-word ultra-right motto, "We must secure
the existence of our people and a future for white children") not only beat up a socialist
politician and celebrated Hitler's birthday by stabbing an antiwar activist, but bragged about
it on its website. Other ultra-nationalists, Cohen says, have stormed the Lvov and Kiev city
councils and "assaulted or disrupted" art exhibits, anti-fascist demos, peace and gay-rights
events, and a Victory Day parade commemorating the victory over Hitler in 1945.
Yet nothing has happened to stop this. President Petro Poroshenko could order a crackdown,
but hasn't for reasons that should be obvious. The U.S.-backed "Euromaidan" uprising not only
drove out former president Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014, who had won an OSCE-certified
election, but tore the country in two, precisely because ultra-rightists like C14 were in the
lead.
When resistance to the U.S.-backed coup
broke out in Crimea and parts of the country's largely Russian-speaking east, the base of
Yanukovych voters, civil war ensued. But because the Ukrainian army had all but collapsed, the
new, coup government had no one to rely on other than the neo-fascists who had helped propel it
to power.
So an alliance was hatched between pro-western oligarchs at the top – Forbesputs
Poroshenko's net worth at a cool $1 billion – and neo-Nazi enforcers at the bottom.
Fascists may not be popular. Indeed, Dmytro Yarosh, the fire-breathing leader of a white-power
coalition known as Right Sector, received less than one percent of the vote when he
ran for president in May 2014.
But the state is so weak and riddled with so many ultra-rightists in key positions –
Andriy Parubiy, founder of the neo-Nazi Social-National Party of Ukraine, is speaker of the
parliament, while ultra-rightist Arsen Avakov is minister of the interior – that the path
before them is clear and unobstructed. As Cohen points out, the result is government passivity
on one hand and a rising tide of ultra-right violence on the other. In the earlier stages of
the civil war, for instance, the rightwing extremists burned more than 40 people alive in a
labor union building in Odessa, a horrific incident downplayed by Western media.
Cohen's article may have Washington Post readers scratching their heads for the
simple reason that the paper has long said the opposite. Since Euromaidan, the Post
has toed the official Washington line
that Vladimir Putin has exaggerated the role of the radical right in order to discredit the
anti-Yanukovych revolt and legitimize his own alleged interference.
Sure, anti-Yanukovych forces had festooned the Kiev town hall with a white supremacist
banner, a Confederate flag , and a giant image of Stepan Bandera , a Nazi
collaborator whose forces killed thousands of Jews during the German occupation and as many as
100,000 Poles. And yes, they staged a 15,000-strong torchlight parade in Bandera's honor and
scrawled an SS symbol on a toppled
statue of Lenin. They also destroyed a memorial to Ukrainians who
had fought on what Bandera supporters regard as the wrong side of World War II, that is, with
the Soviets and against the Axis.
But so-called responsible, mainstream journalists are supposed to avert their eyes to avoid
being tarred as a "
useful idiot " whom Putin supposedly employs to advance his "anti-American agenda." Ten
days after Yanukovych's departure, the Post dutifully
assured its readers that Russian reports of "hooligans and fascists" had "no basis in
reality."
A week or so later, it
said "the new government, though peppered with right-wing politicians, is led primarily by
moderate, pro-European politicians." A few weeks after that, it
described Bandera as no more than "controversial" and quoted a Kiev businessman as saying:
"The Russians want to call him a fascist, but I feel he was a hero for our country. Putin is
using him to try to divide us."
Thus, the Post and other corporate media continued to do its duty by
attacking Putin for plainly saying "the forces backing Ukraine's government in Kiev are
fascists and neo-Nazis." But who was wrong ?
The New York Times was no better. It
assailed Russia for hurling "harsh epithets" like "neo-Nazi," and
blamed the Russian leader for "scaremongering" by attributing Yanukovych's ouster to
"nationalists, neo-Nazis, Russophobes, and anti-Semites." The Guardian 's Luke Harding
–
a leading Putin basher –
said of the far-right Svoboda Party:
"Over the past decade the party appears to have mellowed, eschewing xenophobia, academic
commentators suggest. On Monday, the U.S. ambassador in Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt, said he had
been 'positively impressed' by Svoboda's evolution in opposition and by its behavior in the
Rada, Ukraine's parliament. 'They have demonstrated their democratic bona fides,' the
ambassador asserted."
This is the party whose founder, Oleh Tyahnybok,
said in a 2004 speech that "a Moscow-Jewish mafia" was running the Ukraine and that
Bandera's followers "fought against the Muscovites, Germans, Jews and other enemies who wanted
to take away our Ukrainian state." Had the leopard really changed its spots, according to
Pyatt? Or was it simply a matter of America not giving a damn as long as Svoboda joined the
fight to encircle Russia and advance NATO's drive to the east?
As someone named Marx once observed , "Who you gonna believe, me or your
own two eyes?" As far as Ukraine was concerned, the answer for the corporate press came from
the U.S. State Department. If Foggy Bottom said that Ukrainian neo-Nazism was a figment of
Russia's imagination, then that's what it was, regardless of evidence to the contrary.
Someday, historians will look back on Euromaidan Ukraine as one of the looniest periods in
western journalism – except, of course, for all the ones that have followed. But if one
had to choose the looniest story of all, one that best reflects the abject toadyism of the
reporting classes, it would have to be "Why Jews and Ukrainians Have Become Unlikely Allies," a
1,400-word article
that ran on the Post -owned Foreign Policy website in May 2014. Four years
later, it stands as a model of how not to write about an all-important political crisis.
Cohen's Conversion
Tyahnybok: 'Moscow-Jewish mafia' is running Ukraine.
The piece begins with the usual hand-wringing about Svoboda and Right Sector and expresses
remorse that the latter still venerates the "controversial" Bandera, whose followers "fought on
the side of the Nazis from 1944 until the end of World War II." (Actually, they welcomed the
Germans from the start and, despite rocky relations with the Slav-hating Nazis, continued to
work with them throughout the occupation.)
But then it gets down to business by asserting that as bad as Ukrainian nationalists may be,
Russia is doubly worse. "Despite the substantial presence of right wing nationalists on the
Maidan during the revolution," it says, "many in Ukraine's Jewish community resent being used
by Putin in his propaganda war." The proof is an open letter signed by 21 Ukrainian Jewish
leaders asserting that the real danger was Moscow.
"We know that the political opposition consists of various groups, including some that are
nationalistic," the letter declared. "But even the most marginal of them do not demonstrate
anti-Semitism or other forms of xenophobia. And we certainly know that our very few
nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government –
which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security
services."
This was music to Washington's ears. But if neo-Nazis are free of "anti-Semitism or other
forms of xenophobia," how does one explain the white-power symbols in the Kiev town hall? If
nationalists were "very few" in number, why did journalists need to explain them away? If
Russian security forces really encouraged neo-Nazis, where were the torchlight parades and
portraits of Bandera-like collaborators hanging from public buildings in Moscow?
The article might have noted that Josef Zissels, the Jewish community leader who organized
the letter, is a provocative figure who has long maintained close relations with Ukraine's far
right. A self-styled
Zhydobanderivets – a word that roughly translates as "Kike follower of Bandera"
– he has since infuriated other Jewish leaders by criticizing California Congressman Ro
Khanna for sending a letter to the State Department asking that pressure be brought on the
governments of Poland and Ukraine to combat Holocaust revisionism in their countries.
Forty-one Jewish leaders were so angry, in fact, that they sent out
a letter of their own thanking Khannna for his efforts, expressing "deep concern at the
rise of anti-Semitic incidents and expressions of xenophobia and intolerance, including attacks
on Roma communities," and "strongly proclaim[ing] that Mr. Iosif Zissels and the organization
VAAD do not represent the Jews of Ukraine." A Jewish community leader in Russia was so outraged
by the pro-Bandera apologetics of Zissels and a Ukrainian-Jewish oligarch named Igor Kolomoisky
that he
said he wanted to hang both men "in Dnepropetrovsk in front of the Golden Rose Synagogue
until they stop breathing."
So Foreign Policy used a highly dubious source to whitewash Ukraine's growing
neo-Nazi presence and absolve it of anti-Semitism. As crimes against the truth go, this is
surely one of the worst. But now that the problem has gotten too big for even the corporate
media to ignore, overnight muckrakers like Joshua Cohen are seeing to it that getting away with
such offenses will no longer be so easy. Before his abrupt about-face, the author of that
misleading Foreign Policy piece was Joshua Cohen.
Daniel Lazare is the author ofThe Frozen Republic: How the Constitution Is
Paralyzing Democracy(Harcourt Brace, 1996) and other books about American
politics. He has written for a wide variety of publications fromThe NationtoLe Monde Diplomatique, and his articles about the Middle East,
terrorism, Eastern Europe, and other topics appear regularly on such websites asJacobinand The American Conservative .
If you enjoyed this original article please consider
making a donation to Consortium News so we can bring you more stories like this
one.
mike k , July 6, 2018 at 4:49 pm
The leaders of Israel who sell weapons to the Nazis in Ukraine, are no better than those
Nazis.
Susan Sunflower , July 6, 2018 at 1:37 pm
for those having Alice In Wonderland whiplash, yes the USA was funding the Ukranian
neonazis Azov Brigade before Congress banned the funding in March 2018.
same old "syrian playbook" wrt to enemy-of-my-memory bull .
rosemerry , July 6, 2018 at 10:12 am
The two-hour documentary "Putin" shows in an interview Pres. Putin explaining his
government's cooperating with the Western- supported Ukrainian government for four years
(because they were neighbors and had many links) which he considered normal behavior.
However, once the 2014 election brought in a more "Moscow-friendly" team to govern Ukraine,
the USA began its plans to overthrow it and we see all the consequences shown in this
article.
The tacit support given by the centre-left to the installation of the regime in Kiev
should give them cause for concern writes Frank.
Politics in the Ukraine can only be understood by reference to its history and ethnic and
cultural make-up – a make-up criss-crossed by lasting and entrenched ethnic, cultural
and political differences. The country has long been split into the northern and western
Ukraine, where Ukrainian is the official and everyday lingua franca, and the more
industrialised regions of the east and south where a mixture of Russian speaking Ukrainians
and ethnic Russians reside. Additionally, there has long been Hungarian and Romanian
settlement in the west of the country, and a particularly important Polish presence, whose
unofficial capital, Lviv, was once the Polish city of Lwow. The Russian Orthodox Church is
the predominant form of Christianity in the East, whilst in the west the Christian tradition
tends towards Roman Catholicism.
Politically the Eastern and Southern Oblasts (Regions) which includes the cities and
centres of heavy industry, Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Zaporozhe, Nikolayev, Kherson,
Simferopol and Odessa, have tended to tilt towards Russia whilst the western regions have had
a more western orientation. This has traditionally been reflected in the electoral division
of the country. There is no party which can be considered 'national' in this respect, except
ironically, the old Communist party, which of course is now banned. The major regional
parties have been the Fatherland party of Yulia Tymoshenko (since renamed) and the former
head of government, Arseniy Yatsenyuk as well as the ultra-nationalists predominantly in the
west of the country, and the deposed Victor Yanukovich's Party of the Regions in the East
(now defunct) along with its junior partner in the coalition, the Ukrainian Communist
Party.
However, what is new since the coup in February 2014 there has been the emergence from the
shadows of ultra-nationalist (fascist) parties and movements, with both parliamentary and
extra-parliamentary (i.e.,military) wings. In the main 'Svoboda' or Freedom Party, and the
paramilitaries of 'Right Sector' (Fuhrer: Dimitry Yarosh) who spearheaded the coup in Kiev;
these have been joined or changed their names to inter alia the Radical Party, and Patriots
of the Ukraine; this in addition to the punitive right-wing militias, such as the Azov
Regiment responsible for numerous atrocities in the Don Bas.
Suffice it to say, however, that these political movements and parties did not emerge from
nowhere.
This far-right tradition has been historically very strong in the western Ukraine. The
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) was first established in 1929 and brought
together, war veterans, student fraternities, far-right groups and various other disoriented
socially and political flotsam and jetsam under its banner. The OUN took its ideological
position from the writings of one, Dymtro Dontsov, who, like Mussolini had been a socialist,
and who was instrumental in creating an indigenous Ukrainian fascism based upon the usual
mish-mash of writings and theories including Friedrich Nietzsche, Georges Sorel, and Charles
Maurras. Dontsov also translated the works of Hitler and Mussolini into Ukrainian.
The OUN was committed to ethnic purity, and relied on violence, assassination and
terrorism, not least against other Ukrainians, to achieve its goal of a totalitarian and
homogeneous nation-state. Assorted enemies and impediments to this goal were Communists,
Russians, Poles, and of course – Jews. Strongly oriented toward the Axis powers OUN
founder Evhen Konovalets (1891-1938) stated that his movement was ''waging war against mixed
marriages'', with Poles, Russians and Jews, the latter which he described as ''foes of our
national rebirth''. Indeed, rabid anti-Semitism has been a leitmotif in the history of
Ukrainian fascism, which we will return to below.
Konovelts himself was assassinated by a KGB hit-man in 1938 after which the movement split
into two wings: (OUN-m) under Andrii Melnyk and, more importantly for our purposes (OUN-b)
under Stepan Bandera. Both wings committed to a new fascist Europe. Upon the German invasion
in June 1941, the OUN-b attempted to establish a Ukrainian satellite state loyal to Nazi
Germany. Stepan Lenkavs'kyi the then chief propagandist of the OUN-b 'government' advocated
the physical destruction of Ukrainian Jewry. OUN-b's 'Prime Minister' Yaroslav Stets'ko, and
deputy to Bandera supported, ''the destruction of the Jews and the expedience of bringing
German methods of exterminating Jewry to Ukraine, barring their assimilation and the
like.''
During the early days of the rapid German advance into the Soviet Union there were some
140 pogroms in the western Ukraine claiming the lives of between 13000-35000 people
(Untermensch, in fascist terminology). In 1943-1944 OUN-b and its armed wing the Ukrainian
Insurgent Army (Ukrainska povstanska armia – UPA) carried out large scale ethnic
cleansing resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands; this was a particularly gruesome
affair in Volhynia where some 90000 Poles and thousands of Jews were murdered. The campaign
of the UPA continued well into the 1950s until it was virtually wiped out by the Soviet
forces.
It should be said that during this early period Bandera himself had been incarcerated by
the German authorities up until his release in 1944, since unlike Bandera they were not
enamoured of an independent Ukrainian state but wanted total control. Bandera was only
released at this late date since the German high command was endeavouring to build up a
pro-German Ukrainian quisling military force to hold up the remorseless advance of the Red
Army. Also pursuant to this it is also worth noting that during this period the 14th Galizian
Waffen SS Division, a military Ukrainian collaborationist formation established by Heinrich
Himmler, was formed to fight the Soviet forces, and yet another being the Nachtingal brigade;
(1) this unit was integrated into the 14th Galizian in due course. It is also interesting to
note, that every year, and up to 2014 commemoration ceremony including veterans of this unit
takes place with a march through Lviv in an evening torchlight parade – genuine Nazi
pastiche. The flag of this unit is not dissimilar to the Peugeot logo, the standing lion, and
can be seen at ultra-nationalist rallies as well as football matches involving Lviv Karparti
FC. There are also numerous statues of Bandera across Ukraine, and since the 2014 coup even
street names bearing the same name. Significantly the UPA have now received political
rehabilitation from the Kiev Junta, with Bandera declared a hero of the Ukraine and the UPA
rebranded as 'freedom fighters.' One particularly splendid statue of Bandera stands proudly
in Lviv and is usually adorned with flowers.
Other novel attractions the capital of Banderestan include 'Jewish themed restaurants' one
such is Kryivka (Hideout or Lurking Hole) where guests have a choice of dishes and whose
dinning walls are decorated with larger than life portraits of Bandera, the toilet with
Russian and Jewish anecdotes. At another Jewish themed restaurant guests are offered black
hats of the sort worn by Hasidim. The menu lists no prices for the dishes; instead, one is
required to haggle over highly inflated prices ''in the Jewish fashion''. Yes, it's all good
clean fun in Lviv. Anti-Semitism also sells. Out of 19 book vendors on the streets of central
Lviv, 16 were openly selling anti-Semitic literature. About 70% of the anti-Semitic
publications in Ukraine are being published by and educational institution called MUAP (The
Inter-Regional Academy of Personnel Management). MAUP is a large, well-connected and
increasingly powerful organization funded from outside anti-Semite sources, and also
connected to White Supremacist groups in the USA and to the David Duke, former Grand Wizard
of the Ku Klux Klan.
(It is one of the ironies of history that if the Zionists in AIPAC and the Washington
neo-con think tanks, and the Labour Party Friends of Israel, were so concerned about
anti-Semitism, they might try looking for it in Lviv. They wouldn't have to search very
far.)
Present day neo-Nazi groupings in Ukraine – Svoboda (Freedom) party and Right Sector
– have been the direct descendants from the prior ideological cesspool. Heading Svoboda
is Oleh Tyahnybok. Although these are separate organizations Tyahnybok's deputy Yuriy
Mykhalchyshyn is the main link between Svoboda's official wing and neo-Nazi militias like
Right Sector. The Social-Nationalist party as it was formerly known chose as its logo an
amended version of the Wolfsangel, a symbol used by many SS divisions on the Eastern front
during the war who in 2004 a celebration of the OUN-UPA, stated in 2004, that ''they fought
against the Muscovite, Germans, Jews and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian
state.'' And further that ''Ukraine was ruled by a Muscovite-Jewish mafia.'' Tyahnybok came
under pressure from the then President, Yuschenko, to retract his inflammatory statements,
which he did, but he then retracted the retraction!
Given the fact that Svoboda was, apart from its stamping grounds in the west, making
little national electoral headway, it was essential to clean up its image and deny its Nazi
past. But this was always going to be difficult since the members of such groups cannot help
the unscripted outbursts and faux pas which they tend to make and which reveals their true
colours. For example, following the conviction and sentencing of John Demjanjuk to five years
in jail for his role as an accessory to the murder of 27,900 people at the Sobibor death
camp, Tyahnybok travelled to Germany and met up with Demjanjuk's lawyer, presenting the death
camp guard as a hero, a victim of persecution ''who is fighting for truth''.
And so it goes on. We can therefore infer that this organization is inveterate fascist. More
disturbing Svoboda has links with the so-called Alliance of National European Movements,
which includes: Nationaldemokraterna of Sweden, Front Nationale of France, Fiamma Tricolore
in Italy, the Hungarian Jobbik and the Belgian National Front. More importantly Svoboda held
several ministerial portfolios in the Kiev administration, and Right Sector swaggers around
Kiev streets with impunity, and/or are being drafted into a National Guard to deal with the
separatist movements in the east, or to beat down anyone who doesn't conform to their Ayran
racial and political ideals.
One would have thought that this mutating revolution in the Ukraine would have drawn
attention of the centre-left to the fact that fascism had gained a vital beachhead in Europe,
and that the danger signals should be flashing. But not a bit of it; a perusal of the
Guardian newspaper quickly reveals that their chief concern has been with a non-existent
'Russian threat'. One of their reporters – or old friend, Luke Harding -described Right
Sector as an ''eccentric group of people with unpleasant right-wing views.'' Priceless! This
must rank as the political understatement of the century. In fact, the Guardian was simply
reiterating the US-imposed neo-conservative foreign policy. But naturally, this is par for
the course.
(1) The Nachtingal brigade, which was later incorporated into the SS Galizien, took part
in a three-day massacre of the Jewish population of Lvov (now Lviv) from 30 June 1941. Roman
Shukhevych was the commander of the Nachtingal and later, in 1943, became commander of the
Ukrainian Insurgent Army (the "Banderivtsy", or UPA/UIA[5] ), armed henchmen of the fascist
Stepan Bandera, who after the war pretended that they had fought both Nazis and Communists.
Members of the division are also accused of having murdered some 800 residents of the Polish
village of Huta Pieniacka and 44 civilians in the village of Ch?aniów.
Paolo , July 6, 2018 at 7:11 am
Just for the record: the Ukrainians hailed the Nazis as liberators after the Soviets had
let millions of Ukrainians die of hunger in the thirties, a sort of "genocide" that goes
under the name of Holodomor and has officially been recognized by western Parlaments only a
few decades ago. In eastern Ukraine there were no more inhabitants after the Holodomor, and
the Russians imported hundreds of thousand peasants from Russia to get agriculture working
again.
The problems of Ukraine are so deep that fomenting regime change there was a most idiotic
thing to do. Sooner or later the problems will explode, and it will be tough shit. Whoever
helped this regime change should be locked up in some high security jail as far as
possible.
Garrett Connelly , July 6, 2018 at 9:52 am
The big lie is 180° opposite of reality repeated over and over using free corporate
propaganda.
vinnieoh , July 5, 2018 at 3:15 pm
Still scratching my head at the electric last line of Mr. Lazare's piece. I'm mean, I'm
used to "official" organs like WaPo and NYT publishing whatever narrative is most helpful to
whatever pieces are being moved on the chessboard, but for the same "freelance journalist" to
have written both the earlier Foreign Policy piece and the recent WaPo piece is a puzzle to
me.
Does Joshua Cohen just write stuff that goes with the flow (at any particular moment) and
has a good chance of being published (and consequently of himself being paid)?
Or did this
person really have an epiphany, and the scales fell from his eyes? I suspect a third
explanation though what that may be eludes me. One thing is for sure, as a Trump/Putin
meeting gets closer, expect more false "official" narratives concerning both Ukraine and
Syria.
'The U.S.-backed "Euromaidan" uprising not only drove out former president Viktor
Yanukovych in February 2014, who had won an OSCE-certified election, but tore the country in
two, precisely because ultra-rightists like C14 were in the lead But if one had to choose the
looniest story of all, one that best reflects the abject toadyism of the reporting classes,
it would have to be "Why Jews and Ukrainians Have Become Unlikely Allies," a 1,400-word
article that ran on the Post-owned Foreign Policy website in May 2014.'
Here's the thing though: however weird it may sound, there actually DOES seem to exist
some sort of tacit alliance between (some, not all) Jews and Ukrainian Nazis. Even if their
ultimate goals are completely at odds–the Nazis hate the EU, but the Jews mostly want
to join it–they nearly always seem to work together against Russia. It has even been
maintained that the Azov Battalion (one of the all-volunteer Neo-Nazi militias fighting
against the Donbass rebels) was entirely financed for a time by Jewish oligarch Ihor
Kholomoisky, at least until he did something to piss Poroshenko off and got sacked from his
post as governor of Dniepropetrovsk. And in the beginning, Jews who tried to point out that
Neo-Nazi groups were involved in overthrowing Yanukovych, like Dr. Stephen Cohen, were
roundly denounced a 'Russia apologists' just for stating facts.
But now that Washington's whole Ukraine project has gone south, I guess the Nazis, having
outlived their usefulness, are, as usual, to be the fall-guys and take all the blame.
Anna , July 5, 2018 at 2:39 pm
yeh, the Kaganat of Nuland has many veils.
The most stunning aspect of the banderite putsch in Kiev was the dead silence of nazi-hunters
from Wiesenthal Center, the always oh-so-sensitive ADL, the main 52 (fifty-two!) American
Jewish organizations, and the overall docility and compliance of the "righteous" Israel with
the banderite-neo-Nazi ideology by Kagans-selected power structures in Ukraine.
Mr. Kolomojsky, a financier of neo-nazi battalion Azov, is still an Israeli citizen.
Mrs. Nuland-Kagan, the main machinator of the regime change in Kiev, has not been ostracized
by the Jewish Community at large.
The deeply amoral and bloodthirsty Carl Gerschman from NED, who has been the main cheerleader
for the putsch and for the installing the banderite-friendly government in Kiev, has not been
ostracized by the Jewish Community at large either. What a stench!
https://medium.com/@gmochannel/us-staged-a-coup-in-ukraine-brief-history-and-facts-898c6d0007d6
Pft , July 5, 2018 at 9:07 pm
Yeah. The prime minister and many of the top oligarchs are Jewish. Relations between
Ukraine and Israel seem quite good despite the UNSC vote that the US abstained on regarding
Israeli settlements in the West Bank, perhaps reminded by Stalin doing the same to them in
the 1920's.
As for relations with the neo nazis I remember before WWII that Zionists in Palestine
cooperated with Nazis who sent German Jews to Palestine in return for the purchase of German
goods which were being boycotted by Jews in the west
I suspect most Americans don't know Ukrainian history. The early years of Bolshevik rule
were quite brutal and over 10 million rural Christians lost their lives in Ukraine over their
policies .Solzhenitsyn 200 years can shed some light on the roots of the anti-Semitism among
the peasants that developed in the 20's-30's and no doubt has been passed on.
Robert , July 6, 2018 at 4:24 pm
I've thought about this myself and have concluded that a fair number of Jewish
organizations and institutions in the Ukraine were receiving a small portion of the US State
Department funding allocated to the Ukraine each year of $200-250 million, totaling $5
billion since 1992. In return for this rather small (by US standards) outlay to a broad
spectrum of NGOs, private educational and religious institutions, and political groups, the
US purchased an enormous amount of influence. Most of the members of these groups were
unaware of this US support, as the funds were funneled through individual leaders who were
tasked to influence opinion, organize demonstrations and petitions, and write letters to the
press and government members. Scholarships to the US and Canada were offered to promising
youth to ensure continuity of support. For this reason, most Jewish and other groups
operating in Ukraine have, until recently and only with reluctance, been willing to deviate
from the official US "story". Thus, they knowingly (at least as far as their leadership was
concerned) supported an overtly US-led neo-Nazi coup.
mike , July 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm
Makes sense that Josh Cohen is a former U.S. Agency for International Development project
officer involved in managing economic reform projects in the former Soviet Union. Isn't that
really what this is all about? Putin gets elected and takes charge of the economy, jailing
corrupt oligarchs and putting the kibosh on said reform projects sponsored by us in care of
Jeffrey Sachs et al. As Russia tries to reassert its sovereignty the US gets miffed and
retaliates.
The Electronic Intifada has just posted an article by Asa Winstanley detailing how Israel,
among others, has been supplying the Ukrainian Azov Battalion with military arms. It's well
worth reading.
The next time you hear a pro-Israel mouthpiece sounding off about purported antisemitism
in the British Labour Party, or in pro-Palestinine activist circles in the U.S., invite them
to consider Israel's policy -- and that of the U.S. as well as friendly European states -- of
direct military sponsorship of textbook Nazism in Ukraine. Jews are being menaced and beaten
in the streets of Kiev by armed bands who celebrate their historical persecution, while thugs
like Avigdor Lieberman sit cordially with officials representing that regime. But then, such
warm relations between Zionists and anti-Semites is an old story.
Jeff Harrison , July 5, 2018 at 1:03 pm
Interesting. Anyone with two brains to rub together knows that the US, to the best of it's
ability, has been surrounding Russia with compliant right wing governments, usually
dictators, but we've gotten better at manipulating elections to get reliable puppet
government. The bad news is that it is a full time job to stay on top of that.
It used to be that the only things one could depend on were "death & taxes." Now of
course we must add to that list the very dependable presence of CIA / State Dept lies
parroted by MSM all over the West. Lies which are endlessly repeated in defiance of all
physical reality and often in direct opposition to actual events in the actual world we live
in. From the Ukraine coup, to Russia-gate, to the "Assad's gassing his own people" regime
change propaganda, to the totally surreal Alice in Wonderland Skripnal poisoning nonsense in
the U.K, the Western MSM have been as dependable as the rising sun. They can and do provide
fact-free, evidence-free reporting directly from the bowels of the deep state in support of
the neocolonial West, including unending support for the never ending resort to mass violence
the West relies upon to keep the rest of the planet subjugated – just as it has for the
last 500+ years.
irina , July 5, 2018 at 2:06 pm
It's not just the media. The late night talk show hosts are doing their bit too, as I
heard
last night on a Jimmy Kimmel rerun (of a recent show). Can't remember the context as
I was doing the dishes, but did hear him say the usual "Russian illegally annexed Crimea"
standard phrase, immediately followed by "and then invaded Ukraine". The latter just
casually tossed off as a given. People hear these memes constantly repeated and,
regardless of their veracity (suspect to say the least) it becomes part of their
worldview.
Who is behind the political preaching of hosts like Jimmy Kimmel ?
Inquiring minds want to know !
Joe Tedesky , July 5, 2018 at 2:43 pm
You know what irina, seeing these late night talk shows go all crazy over Putin makes me
think of the Zio-Media executives, and where their allegiance to power resides. Joe
Devil's Advocate , July 5, 2018 at 2:48 pm
I would assume you'd have to look at who owns the media source in question. Kimmel's show
is on ABC, which is partly owned by Disney. Follow the money chain of those 2 parent
companies, and you have your answer.
irina – I quite agree. The same is true of the former Daily Show crew members who
now have their own shows. Several have shown themselves to be quite the little imperialist
war mongers when it comes to gleefully repeating the CIA sponsored Syrian regime change and
Russiagate propaganda. Samantha Bee & John Oliver kept triggering my gag reflex with
their propaganda lines until I found a simple but effective solution and stopped watching
them altogether. We have an amazingly seamless propaganda system here in the U.S. One can
chose to either get one's "pro-war regime change propaganda" delivered with barely concealed
racism and misogyny from Fox News, or instead opt for hearing the same nonsense delivered
with pretentious blather and catchy jazz interludes at PBS. American democracy is all about
having "choices."
Jeff Harrison , July 5, 2018 at 7:57 pm
I quite agree. I knew the minute that they started calling RT a propaganda outlet that, in
fact, the USG was running a full scale propaganda operation. I don't know if I simply wasn't
paying enough attention or if they have, in fact ramped the operation up, but I can hardly
read any MSM outlet's output without calling bullshit on it.
irina , July 6, 2018 at 2:55 am
Jimmy Kimmel actually used to be funny and there is a really good clip
(somewhere on youtube no doubt) of him reading a 'doctored' Dr. Seuss
book to The Donald (a live guest) during his primary candidacy.
But since The Donald's election Kimmel has opened almost every show
with 'ten minutes hate' segment on The Donald. I still watch (or at least
listen) occasionally because I want to know what is being fed to The Public.
You are absolutely right though, "we have an amazingly seamless propaganda
system here in the US". The average person maybe has 30 minutes to
devote to the news, between getting home and having dinner; they watch
some sort of news show and think they are 'informed'. But it actually takes
MANY hours and a knowledge of alternative websites to even begin to piece
together an approximation of what might, in reality, be going on.
The Russians used to say that, at least they knew they were being propagandized.
Unfortunately, probably due to 'American Exceptionalism', most Americans think
the MSM is bringing them 'the truth'. But nothing could be further from The Truth.
Peter H , July 6, 2018 at 10:41 am
I can't count the number of times I've had to turn off Colbert's Late Show for his
Russian/Putin bashing BS. So disappointing. That's a rule in my house now. The first mention
of Russia and off it goes.
Drew Hunkins , July 5, 2018 at 12:52 pm
Likewise, the corporate militarist-Zio media should eventually have to concede someday
that the current Syrian "rebels" are little more than ruthless sociopathic
Saudi-Zio-Washington intel agency supported mercenary terrorists.
Folks in the know knew very early on that much of the Kiev putschists and violent invaders
of Eastern Ukraine were neo-Nazi types bent on eradicating the last vestiges of Russian
social and ethnic solidarity.
It's really truly remarkable when one steps back to think about it all. These are the
depraved groups the crypto-fascists, the Wall Street militarist imperialists, and Zionists
have embedded themselves with: bloodthirsty Takfiri mercenary terrorists and neo-Nazis.
Bob Van Noy , July 5, 2018 at 2:25 pm
Each time I see an article like this I'm reminded of the videos of Zbigniew Brzezinski's
early meetings with the Mujahideen and his manipulation of cultures on The Grand Chessboard
or "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" a totally absurd assumption and the natural outcome
of that absurdity, is blowback which this article again addresses. Our "boots on the ground"
end up paying the price of this kind of supposed intellectualism. Shameful. Thank you Drew
Hunkins.
Joe Tedesky , July 5, 2018 at 2:39 pm
Bob the old saying if I got right is the company you keep is what you become. We have
truly loss our way, and Zbigniew Brzezinski is one of the biggest reasons we have become the
predators of this dying green earth. All this for the profit, as all mankind must yield to
the power of the dollar. Sad. Joe
MBeaver , July 6, 2018 at 5:03 am
One would think we had learned from Vietnam. Instead the "peace loving" liberals do
everything to destabilize whole region for nothing and then send soldiers in who die for
their messed up agenda.
JWalters , July 5, 2018 at 7:16 pm
It is truly remarkable. A lot of the behind-the-scenes magic is explained in "War
Profiteers and Israel's Bank" http://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com
.
When the media is controlled by people responsible for false flag operation chances to use investigation to
discredit this false flag operation, no matter how many evidence they have is close to zero
In other word false flag operation is perfect weapon for the "sole superpower" and due to this status entail very little
risks.
Notable quotes:
"... Today's false flag operations are generally carried out by intelligence agencies and non-government actors including terrorist groups, but they are only considered successful if the true attribution of an action remains secret. ..."
"... False flags can be involved in other sorts of activity as well. The past year's two major alleged chemical attacks carried out against Syrian civilians that resulted in President Donald Trump and associates launching 160 cruise missiles are pretty clearly false flag operations carried out by the rebels and terrorist groups that controlled the affected areas at the time. ..."
"... Because the rebels succeeded in convincing much of the world that the Syrian government had carried out the attacks, one might consider their false flag efforts to have been extremely successful. ..."
"... The remedy against false flag operations such as the recent one in Syria is, of course, to avoid taking the bait and instead waiting until a thorough and objective inspection of the evidence has taken place. The United States, Britain and France did not do that, preferring instead to respond to hysterical press reports by "doing something." If the U.N. investigation of the alleged attack turns up nothing, a distinct possibility, it is unlikely that they will apologize for having committed a war crime. ..."
"... The other major false flag that has recently surfaced is the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury England on March 4 th . Russia had no credible motive to carry out the attack and had, in fact, good reasons not to do so. ..."
"... Unfortunately, May proved wrong and the debate ignited over her actions, which included the expulsion of twenty-three Russian diplomats, has done her severe damage. Few now believe that Russia actually carried out the poisoning and there is a growing body of opinion suggesting that it was actually a false flag executed by the British government or even by the CIA. ..."
"... The lesson that should be learned from Syria and Skripal is that if "an incident" looks like it has no obvious motive behind it, there is a high probability that it is a false flag. ..."
False Flag is a concept that goes back centuries. It was considered to be a legitimate ploy
by the Greeks and Romans, where a military force would pretend to be friendly to get close to
an enemy before dropping the pretense and raising its banners to reveal its own affiliation
just before launching an attack. In the sea battles of the eighteenth century among Spain,
France and Britain hoisting an enemy flag instead of one's own to confuse the opponent was
considered to be a legitimate ruse de guerre , but it was only "honorable" if one
reverted to one's own flag before engaging in combat.
Today's false flag operations are generally carried out by intelligence agencies and
non-government actors including terrorist groups, but they are only considered successful if
the true attribution of an action remains secret. There is nothing honorable about them as
their intention is to blame an innocent party for something that it did not do. There has been
a lot of such activity lately and it was interesting to learn by way of a leak that the Central
Intelligence Agency (CIA) has developed a capability to mimic the internet fingerprints of
other foreign intelligence services. That means that when the media is trumpeting news reports
that the Russians or Chinese hacked into U.S. government websites or the sites of major
corporations, it could actually have been the CIA carrying out the intrusion and making it look
like it originated in Moscow or Beijing. Given that capability, there has been considerable
speculation in the alternative media that it was actually the CIA that interfered in the 2016
national elections in the United States.
False flags can be involved in other sorts of activity as well. The past year's two major
alleged chemical attacks carried out against Syrian civilians that resulted in President Donald
Trump and associates launching 160 cruise missiles are pretty clearly false flag operations
carried out by the rebels and terrorist groups that controlled the affected areas at the time.
The most recent reported attack on April 7th might not have occurred at all
according to doctors and other witnesses who were actually in Douma. Because the rebels
succeeded in convincing much of the world that the Syrian government had carried out the
attacks, one might consider their false flag efforts to have been extremely successful.
The remedy against false flag operations such as the recent one in Syria is, of course, to
avoid taking the bait and instead waiting until a thorough and objective inspection of the
evidence has taken place. The United States, Britain and France did not do that, preferring
instead to respond to hysterical press reports by "doing something." If the U.N. investigation
of the alleged attack turns up nothing, a distinct possibility, it is unlikely that they will
apologize for having committed a war crime.
The other major false flag that has recently surfaced is the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and
his daughter Yulia in Salisbury England on March 4th. Russia had no credible
motive to carry out the attack and had, in fact, good reasons not to do so. The allegations
made by British Prime Minister Theresa May about the claimed nerve agent being "very likely"
Russian in origin have been debunked, in part through examination by the U.K.'s own chemical
weapons lab. May, under attack even within her own party, needed a good story and a powerful
enemy to solidify her own hold on power so false flagging something to Russia probably appeared
to be just the ticket as Moscow would hardly be able to deny the "facts" being invented in
London. Unfortunately, May proved wrong and the debate ignited over her actions, which included
the expulsion of twenty-three Russian diplomats, has done her severe damage. Few now believe
that Russia actually carried out the poisoning and there is a growing body of opinion
suggesting that it was actually a false flag executed by the British government or even by the
CIA.
The lesson that should be learned from Syria and Skripal is that if "an incident" looks like
it has no obvious motive behind it, there is a high probability that it is a false flag. A bit
of caution in assigning blame is appropriate given that the alternative would be a precipitate
and likely disproportionate response that could easily escalate into a shooting war.
This is definitely cancer stage of neoliberalism, but I doubt that there is connection
between Skripal poisoning and Ukraine.
Also why the USA served as the catalyst for coming nationalists to power in 2014 the process
started long ago with Yushchenko and to a certain extent is typical for all post Soviet
republics, including Kazakhstan and Belorussia. they all try to distance themselves from Russia
to prove their sovereignty. The low intensity warfare in Donetsk is the only differentiator, but
even this remind attempt of Georgia to subdue South Ossetia in the past and Karabah conflict
between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Still the author is definitely a brilliant writer and thinker he describes geopolitical
tensions really well
Notable quotes:
"... has to have such a war-drum distraction to survive. ..."
"... Social, Humanitarian and Cultural Affairs Committee of the UN General Assembly ..."
As usual there is amnesia of the ever-recurring big-lie pretext, the need for another crisis
to keep the two-billion-dollar a day NATO war machine going, the baleful puppet moves of Canada
in the process, the crisis of legitimacy of the lead attacker's government, and the silent
diversion from the whole nightmare scenario unfolding by all NATO-member governments, mass
media and even 'peace activist' organisations.
This time the big-lie pretext is about the alleged poisoning by the Kremlin/Putin of a
double-agent, usually a stock move in the espionage entertainments, but here with no evidence
of the claimed origin of the lethal nerve-agent, but rather expert denial within British
defence and weapons research itself, with devious political word games to get around the
absence of any corroborated evidence in familiar denuciations of Russia full of aggression and
hate. Not even a death is recorded while US-led nd UK-armed ally forces are still
mass-murdering poor civilian Yeminis, drone-murdering endless targets and civilians abroad,
continuing on unblamed for the ongoing NATO-executed eco-genocides of Iraq and Libya societies,
and on the 19-years anniversary of the mass bombing of, once again a society, Yugoslavia, with
the most evolved social infrastructures of health, education, housing and life security in the
region.
What this latest war pretext for US and NATO-backed aggression is really about is justifying
more war in the Ukraine now that the massive war preparations along all of Russia's
Western borders following the self-declared Nazi-led and proven US- orchestrated and commanded
mass-murder coup d'etat in February 2014 . As usual there is amnesia of the ever-recurring
big-lie pretext, the need for another crisis to keep the two-billion-dollar a day NATO war
machine going, the baleful puppet moves of Canada in the process, the crisis of legitimacy of
the lead attacker's government, and the silent diversion from the whole nightmare scenario
unfolding by all NATO-member governments, mass media and even 'peace activist'
organisations.
This time the big-lie pretext is about the alleged poisoning by the Kremlin/Putin of a
double-agent traitor, usually a stock move in the espionage entertainments. Yet here there is
no confirmed evidence whatever of the claimed origin of the lethal nerve-agent, but rather
expert denial within British defence and weapons research itself that is silence in the press,
with devious political word games crafted to get around the absence of any corroborated facts
in the familiar denuciations of Russia full of team aggression and hate. Not even a death is
recorded while US-led nd UK-armed ally forces are still mass-murdering poor civilian Yeminis,
drone-murdering endless targets and civilians abroad, continuing on unblamed for the ongoing
NATO-executed eco-genocides of Iraq and Libya societies, and on the 19-years anniversary of the
mass bombing of Yugoslavia -- once again a socialist society with the most evolved social
infrastructures of health, education, housing and life security in the region.
What this latest war pretext for US and NATO-backed aggression is really about is justifying
more war in Ukraine now that the massive war preparations along all of Russia's Western borders
following the self-declared Nazi-led and proven US- orchestrated and commanded mass-murder coup
d'etat in February 2014 . As always, this US-directed mass murder was reverse-blamed on the
ever shifting Enemy face -- Russia's allied but duly elected government of the Ukraine. It was
only after this violent-coup Nazi-led and US directed overthrow of the elected
government of the very resource-rich Ukraine -- "the breadbasket of Europe" and sitting on
newly discovered rich fossil fuel deposits -- that Russia annexed its traditional territory of
the Crimea next to Eastern Ukraine, the latter after the violent coup put under the rule of a
US-Nazi-led government until its people fought back with Russia assistance for the now
NATO-targeted zones of the new Donetsk and Lugansk republics.
What is new now is that we are about to enter yet another NATO-member war build-up against
the cornerstone of Western ideology, the designated Enemy Russia. As usual there is amnesia of
the ever-recurring big-lie pretext, the need for another crisis to keep the two-billion-dollar
a day US-led NATO war machine going, the baleful puppet moves of Canada in the process, the
crisis of legitimacy of the lead attacker's UK government, and silent diversion from the whole
nightmare scenario unfolding in NATO-member states, mass media and even 'peace activist'
organisations.
Cui Bono?
The UK and the US followed by Canada and some of the EU have by expulsion of Russia
diplomats prepared the diplomatic way for war in the Ukraine to seize back these lost
coup-territories, and it will be in the name of "freedom", "human rights" and "the rules of
civilised nations". But there is much officially suppressed colour to the warring parties
political conflict which reveals who the truly heinous suppressor of human rights is.
Under mass media and corporate-state cover, the US-UK-NATO axis about to make war in Ukraine is
doing so under the factually absurd but non-stop pretext of "Russia aggression" constructed out
of the double-agent poisoning affair, with the guilty agents and poison having no proof but the
ever louder UK-led and NATO-state assertion of it in unison. Yet there is a clear answer to the
cui bono question -- which party does all this benefit? Clearly once the question is
posed, as opposed to completely gagged in the corporate press, Theresa May's slow-motion
collapsing Tory government -- now even challenged for its fraudulent Brexit referendum
protecting the big London banks from EU regulation -- has to have such a war-drum
distraction to survive. The old war of aggression pattern reverse-blamed on the official
enemy unwinds yet again.
It is revealing in this context how Canada's government has no such ruler need of war --
unless it be its Ukraine-descendent Foreign Minister up front and the very powerful and widely
Nazi-sympathizing Ukraine Liberal vote bank and leadership brought to Canada after 1945 to
overwhelm the preceding active socialist Ukrainian community in Canada. Canada's government --
not its people -- is in any case used to being a puppet regime in foreign affairs as a
twice-colonized rule by big business (why the NDP is not allowed to govern unless so
subjugated).
The Human Rights Question
In light of all of this suppressed factual background and motive for more war in Ukraine
which is unspeakable in the official news, interaction with the United Nations is of revealing
interest. While it has been the cover for US-led NATO executed genocidal wars of aggression in
the past as in Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia and Korea, the pretexts of 'human rights',
'responsibility to protect' and 'stopping communist aggression', which are in fact always been
the spectacular opposite on the ground in terms of diseased, mass-murdered and destituted
bodies, these pretexts may not sell well when the background facts are no longer suppressed
from public view.
It is worthwhile recalling how Science for Peace leadership used to be against but has since
Afghanistan collaborated with these false-pretext wars in sustaining their illusions and thus
the war crimes and crimes against proceeding underneath them.
The NATO-executed Ukraine war now being orchestrated is especially revealing in its actual
record of 'protecting human rights' through 'international law' and 'norms of civilised
nations'. Completely buried in official records is a United Nations resolution n on Ukraine
that the US and Canada repudiated on November 20 2015 after the US-led bloody coup d'etat in
Ukraine was in full motion of claiming all the vast tracts of land and resources that were
Russia-speaking territory in the past.
The resolution was straightforwardly against "Nazi symbols and regalia" as well as
"holocaust denial". The Social, Humanitarian and Cultural Affairs Committee of the UN
General Assembly overwhelmingly voted for a resolution to enable measures against "the
glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that facilitate the escalation of
modern forms of racism, xenophobia and intolerance". A total of 126 member-states of the UN
voted for it for the second time. Over 100 countries voted for a similar resolution in 2014
including "denial of the holocaust and glorification of the Nazi movement, former members of
the Waffen SS organization, including the installation of memorials to them, and post-coup
attempts to desecrate or destroy the monuments to those who fought against Nazism in Ukraine
during World War II".
How could any civilised state vote against these United Nations Resolutions for human rights
as Canada and the US have done and stood by ever since? Well instituted group hatred of the
officially designated enemy can justify anything whatsoever, and does so right into next
NATO-executed orgy of war crime and crimes against humanity, again inside Europe itself
flaunting reverse-blame lies and slogans as red meat for psychotically trained masses. It is
not by accident that Canada's Foreign Minister is in this near century-old Nazi loyalist vs
Russia-speaking conflict was before her appointment the "proud "granddaughter of a leading Nazi
war propagandist during its occupation of Poland and Ukraine described as a "fighter for
freedom".
Yet on the other hand, we must not lose ourselves in ad hominem responsibility.
Crystina Freeland, her Canada name, is interestingly propagandist in itself from her birth --
Christian Free Land -- but not observed in the corporate press. Minister Freeland is only a
symptom of something far deeper and more systemically murderous and evil in state-executed
unlimited greed and immiserization of innocent millions of people masked as 'human rights' ,
'freedom' and 'rule of law' . Her more sinister double in the US is also a renamed person of
the region, Victoria Nuland (read New Land) who orchestrated the whole 2014 mass-murder coup in
Ukraine and now tub-thumps on public television for the 'need to teach Putin and Russia a hard
lesson', aka another war attack by US-led NATO on Russia's borders.
The difference now is that the absurd pretext and geostrategic mechanisms now in motion
beforehand can be seen in front of our eyes -- that is, if we can still see through the
engineered prism of the US-UK led NATO war machine. This alone will stop it.
Within a week after Brennan's 'routine' visit in April 2014 to the Ukraine the Ukrainian army
launched a civil war. That was within 2 weeks of the CIA instigated coup an the end of
February 2014.
Of course it was a coup, though not a South American style with colonels in charge. It was
brought about in the first instance by American meddling, with the obligatory tidal wave of
cash in the cover of so called Orange Revolutions and aided by the neo-Nazi faction among the
Ukrainians.
However fragile there was a constitutional order in the Ukraine, which held the Ukrainian
and Russian speaking peoples of the Ukraine together. But the Westerners held the carrots of
a Western lifestyle, which the Russians could not match. The bloodshed in that part of the
world was instigated by the usual cabal of troublemakers. Putin was inclined to see the
Ukrainians more as misguided Russians rather than anything else.
Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 16, 2018 2:03:28 PM |
21
Very reminiscent of the MH17 campaign that was used to bully the reluctant Europeans into
imposing sanctions on Russia. Accusations were made and a narrative put forward immediately
without presenting clear evidence or waiting for an investigation. Through repetition this
narrative has become dogma in the West despite the fact that supporting evidence has still not
been forthcoming. It seems that after 9-11 it became clear that quickly putting out a
narrative, with the support of the press, and demonizing anyone with any public stature who
questions the basic story could be successful, even when there were thousands of eye witnesses
and many flaws in the official explanation. The facts, or what really happened no longer matter
once the narrative has taken root.
My question is what kinds of threats are being used to keep potential dissenters in line
now. French banks were punished over the mistrial deal and it was abandoned. Now the stakes
seem to be higher and the risk of defections has increased, so what is the stick?
Clyde Davis: " until I hear a more convincing explanation I'm sticking to my guns."
1. Russian dissident oligarchs: loads of money; baleful influence and financial tentacles extend into the very heart of the
UK establishment; all sorts of dodgy connections in the former Soviet Union; zero scruples; hate Putin.
2. Ukraine: fascist regime; involved in a war with Russia already; just as likely to have access to old Soviet Novichok (if it
exists) as Russia; just as capable of manufacturing it as Russia if it doesn't; zero scruples; hate Putin.
3. Turkey: angry because they're losing a proxy war with Russia in Syria; already have their own chemical weapons programme; perfectly
capable of manufacturing this stuff; previous in targeted assassinations; zero scruples; hate Putin.
4. Saudi Arabia: angry because they're losing a proxy war with Russia in Syria; loads of money; baleful influence and financial
tentacles extend into the very heart of the UK establishment; happy to export or facilitate terrorism anywhere in the world including
their supposed 'allies'; zero scruples; hate Putin.
5. Anti-Trump forces in the US: Demented in their obsession with 'Trump-Russia' collusion; angry because they're losing a proxy
war with Russia in Syria; already have access to Soviet Novichok (if it exists); perfectly capable of manufacturing it if it doesn't;
previous in targeted assassinations; zero scruples; hate Putin.
6. Israel: angry because they're losing a proxy war with Russia in Syria; probably the best military/scientific capability in
the world; certainly capable of manufacturing this stuff; previous in targeted assassinations; zero scruples when pursuing what
they believe to be their own best interests; hate Putin.
To me this is a repeat of the MH17 case study with its:
Propaganda preparation – media full of shot down Uki military planes vs. media full of CW victims in Syria for which
Russia is to blame,
"Rush" to judgement whodunit – former Australian Prime Minister Abbot publicly pointed finger at the Russian rebels
in Ukraine 7 hours after the shootdown vs. the UK Prime Minister blames Russia a day after her event,
Soviet Union = Russia when convenient – the Soviet designed and made BUK becomes the exclusively Russian made BUK
vs. the Soviet Designed CW becomes the exclusively Russian produced CW (with a touch of the good old British propaganda – maybe
Russia lost control over it! => well, maybe US "lost control" over it when it was helping it's client Uzbekistan destroy it)
Logic matters not – let us find a BUK coming all the way from Russia instead of looking at tens of such systems
operated by the Uki troops, apparently four near the area where the shoot down happened vs. let us look at poison or a trained
chemist coming all the way from Russia (how when one cannot get even a small bottle of drink on a plane?) whilst there is a
British own source 12 km away,
When questions arise and contrary items of evidence come out, just ignore and keep drumming "the proven facts" (the
science is settled) from the blame package prepared in advance – an alternative, facts-supported explanation will never be
accepted no matter what.
The post-modern West operates on evidence-free pure emotion-eliciting narratives ("Putin killed my baby") on the shoulders
of MSM and troll farms. Any unauthorised explanation, such as Mr Murray's, is declared a conspiracy theory to be ridiculed.
Above mean that Ukraine, Malaysia and Malaysia Airlines bore certain responsibilities with regards to the operations of flight
MH17 based on national an international law.
Russia has very bad lawyers. The investigation is completed.
"... "The US regime foisted nazi rule on Ukraine, and backs the ethnic-cleansing program there to kill or else cause to flee from Ukraine into Russia the residents in Ukraine's far-eastern Donbass region, in which over 90% of the people had voted for the democratically elected Ukrainian President that the US regime overthrew and replaced by fascists and nazis, in February 2014. Obama needed to get rid of those intensely anti-nazi voters, because otherwise the regime that he installed wouldn't have lasted beyond the first post-coup election. That's the purpose of ethnic cleansing - to get rid of unwanted voters." ..."
"... there is actually nothing at all in Russia which even begins to approach the outright
nazi displays and rallies that are routine in today's Ukraine, and some of which Ukrainian
marches are publicly displaying symbols from Hitler's regime -- in fact, it's all outright
illegal in Russia, which had lost (by far) more of its citizens to Germany's Nazis
(13,950,000, or 12.7% of its population) than did any other country (except Belarus --
another state within the Soviet Union -- which lost 25.3% of its population). ...
-- On the civil war in Ukraine:
"The US regime foisted nazi rule on Ukraine, and backs the
ethnic-cleansing program there to kill or else cause to flee from Ukraine into Russia the
residents in Ukraine's far-eastern Donbass region, in which over 90% of the people had voted
for the democratically elected Ukrainian President that the US regime overthrew and replaced
by fascists and nazis, in February 2014. Obama needed to get rid of those intensely anti-nazi
voters, because otherwise the regime that he installed wouldn't have lasted beyond the first
post-coup election. That's the purpose of ethnic cleansing - to get rid of unwanted
voters."
-- Rather a convincing explanation. One wonders, where are the veterans' organizations and
the senior-level brass and how come that the US has exposed itself as a protector of the
self-proclaimed (not hypothetical) nazis? Where are the activists from the Holocaust
biz?
The Ukrainian economy is in a catastrophic state after four years of "euro-reforms," said
Viktor Medvedchuk, head of the public movement "Ukrainian Choice – People's
Right." "At the end of 2013. Ukraine's state and publicly guaranteed debt was 40% of GDP, and
by the end of 2017 it had more than doubled, exceeding 80% of GDP. In 2013, Ukraine's GDP per
capita was more than $ 4,075, and in 2016 decreased to $ 2221.
The average monthly salary in 2017 as a whole for the country was $ 267 (in 2013 it exceeded
$ 408), pensions are also 2.3 times lower than before the euro reform. Today, it is slightly
more than $ 48, while in 2013 it was almost $ 112, " Medvedchuk said.
Actually life in Ukraine was not that bad in 2010-2014. Hopefully "After-Maydan" deterioration might be temporary,
although without new markets for Ukrainian industrial goods recovery is almost impossible. Also the level of foreign
debt is now much higher, so they dig a deeper hole for themselves to climb out. Other probable scenario is bankruptcy.
See also
Bill
Black Once a Poster Child for Austerity, Latvia Becomes a Hotbed of Corruption naked capitalism
Poland's level of GDP per capita is 6 times bigger than Ukraine's. They started out
around the same level in 1991 and were supposed to follow the same playbook. To the extent
that their paths diverged can be explained by Ukrainian corruption and incompetence.
Poland received hundreds of billions of dollars in EU subsidies and transfers. Not a fair
comparison. Even still today they are receiving this transfer of wealth from net contributor
countries in the EU (there's another good reason EU became unpopular in net contributor
countries like the UK and the Netherlands):
Energy subsidies from Russia to the Ukraine are estimated at hundreds of billions of
dollars since 1991. The Ukraine has been well subsidized since independence. What they have
been desperately lacking is governance.
Latvia now is a typical neoliberal debt slave and flourishing sex trafficking market. Not
that different from other Baltic states, Ukraine, Moldavia and generally all xUSSR space.
Bill mentions the brain drain from Latvia, but I seem to recall a quite massive general
emigration from the country during austerity, which also helped to "reduce unemployment" as
well. The neoliberal "methodology" for "showing economic success" is moral and economic
bankruptcy masquerading as "science". And wow. So we have Latvia to thank for the coming
nuclear holocaust as well. A true neoliberal market miracle.
Lambert's two principles of neoliberalism are once again brought to mind:
All those 'excess' workers who left were helping keep wages low in the EU
In the sense that Latvia's future productivity is sacrificed for short-term benefits on the
books, it starts to look like another asset-stripping scheme, and the costs are borne by
workers in the EU.
Latvia already has one of the highest levels of poverty and income inequality in the EU
and its population has dropped by about a fifth in the past 18 years which is a bit of a
record considering that there was no war, that is, unless you count the neoliberal war on
people. Some moved to the capital Riga but most bailed out of the country altogether and are
not coming back. You can find whole blocks of empty buildings in some towns.
But don't worry. The Latvians are on the case. The head of the Latvian Central Bank detained
for extortion and the Latvian Ministry of Defense both blame, you guessed it, Russia!
Lambert's two principles of neoliberalism may have to be updated. He already has
#1 Because markets.
#2 Go die.
He may have to modify the second one to say
#2 Go die or get the hell outta Dodge.
Now I may be prejudiced because the Gs came from deepest darkest Lithuania–and we're
talking out in the endless woods in a village along a lake.
When people talk about population decline in Latvia, you are talking about part of the
corruption. The native Latvians wanted a way of getting rid of the Russian population, many
of whom are considered immigrants. So dropping 20 percent of the population means throwing
out the Russians. When your "population policy " is based on something like that, you can
image what the country's economic policies are like.
In contrast–although Lithuania, too, has lost some 10 – 15 percent of its
population since restored independence–the Lithuanians came to terms, imperfect terms,
with their smaller Polish and Russian minorities. Nevertheless, the Lithuanians didn't go
whole-hog free-market fundamentalism. And when a recent president was found to be corrupt,
they impeached him and threw him out.
So you have different models for how to survive as a Baltic State. Latvia has made a mess
of its "model."
"Now of course that's still in a land where they had really severely repressed wages for
the working class and for middle class, and continued to tolerate a fair degree of
unemployment and underemployment for folks, as well. So, yeah it works really well for the
oligarchs. And they do employ people. The unemployment rate drops, but the country
invariably becomes extremely corrupt."
Was he still talking about Latvia or did he switch over to the USA?
Half a decade ago when Latvia was considered a success story for neoliberal austerity, one
animator made this great satire video making fun of how farcical it was to consider it
such.
Latvia also being part of that running sore which involves according to the US state
department's last global estimate, about 800,000 to a million victims per annum of people
trafficking. Of which around 80% are female, with a not stated amount being children, used
for both labour & sexual purposes.
I suppose that it comes as little surprise that the 2 main flows of these commodities is
from East to West & South to North.
"... An investigation of the State Dept should bring the focus around to issues of substance. ..."
"... DNC collusion with Ukrainian IT "Security" company Crowdstrike tied to the Atlantic Council to push false narrative of DNC hack and malware to influence US election ..."
"... DNC consultant Andrea Chalupa, unregistered foreign agent whose entire family is tied to Ukrainian Intelligence ..."
"... Further research revealed that Andrea Chalupa and her two siblings are actively involved with other sources of digital terrorism, disinformation and spamming, like TrolleyBust com, stopfake org, and informnapalm. ..."
"... Ms. Chalupa kept cooperating with the Khodorovky owned magazine "The Interpreter." Now, it's a part of RFE/RL run by the government funded Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG) whose director, Dr. Leon Aron also a director of Russian Studies at the American Enterprise Institute ..."
Sessions is not recused from a Ukraine investigation. An investigation of the State Dept should bring the focus around
to issues of substance.
Obama repeal of Smith-Mundt to allow State Dept propaganda in the domestic US
Obama coup of Ukraine
Obama / McCain support of Nazis in Ukraine
Adam Schiff relationship with Ukrainian arms dealer Igor Pasternak
DNC collusion with Ukrainian IT "Security" company Crowdstrike tied to the Atlantic Council to push false narrative
of DNC hack and malware to influence US election
DNC consultant Andrea Chalupa, unregistered foreign agent whose entire family is tied to Ukrainian Intelligence
Further research revealed that Andrea Chalupa and her two siblings are actively involved with other sources of digital
terrorism, disinformation and spamming, like TrolleyBust com, stopfake org, and informnapalm.
Ms. Chalupa kept cooperating with the Khodorovky owned magazine "The Interpreter." Now, it's a part of RFE/RL run by
the government funded Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG) whose director, Dr. Leon Aron also a director of Russian Studies
at the American Enterprise Institute.
"... By contrast the reduction in the gas price Naftogaz refers to from $485/tcm to $352 tcm which Naftogaz makes much of in its statement appears to apply only to gas supplied to Ukraine by Gazprom in the second quarter of 2014 and still sets the price of gas supplied to Ukraine by Gazprom higher than was demanded by Ukraine during this period. ..."
"... Ukraine recently borrowed $3 billion on the international financial markets at very high interest almost certainly in order to pay the $3 billion the High Court in London has ordered it to pay Russia. Whilst the $2 billion is technically a debt owed by Naftogaz not Ukraine and its non-payment would does not place Ukraine in a state of sovereign default, Gazprom is in a position to enforce the debt against Naftogaz's assets (including gas it buys) in the European Economic Area. It is difficult to see how Naftogaz and Ukraine can avoid payment of this debt. ..."
"... Has Ukraine actually gained anything from its long running gas dispute with Russia? ..."
On Friday 21st December 2017 the Stockholm Arbitration Court made a ruling in the legal
dispute between Ukraine's state owned gas monopoly Naftogaz and Russia's largely state owned
gas monopoly Gazprom.
In the hours after the decision – which like all decisions of the Stockholm
Arbitration Court – is not published, Naftogaz claimed victory in a short statement.
However over the course of the hours which followed Gazprom provided details of the decision
which suggests that the truth is the diametric opposite.
Here is how the Financial Times reports
the competing claims
Both Ukraine's Naftogaz and Russia's Gazprom both on Friday claimed victory as a Stockholm
arbitration tribunal issued the final award ruling in the first of two cases in a three-year
legal battle between the state-controlled energy companies, where total claims stand at some
$80bn.
An emailed statement from the Ukrainian company was titled:
"Naftogaz wins the gas sales arbitration case against Gazprom on all issues in
dispute."
The Stockholm arbitration tribunal -- in its final award ruling in a dispute over gas
supplies from prior years -- had, according to Naftogaz, struck down Gazprom's claim to
receive $56bn for gas contracted but not supplied through controversial "take-or-pay"
clauses. They were included in a supply contract Ukraine signed in 2009 after Gazprom dented
supplies to the EU by cutting all flow amid a price dispute -- including transit through the
country's vast pipeline systems. In a tweet Ukraine's foreign minister
Pavlo Klimkin wrote: "The victory of Naftogaz in the Stockholm arbitration: It's not a
knockout, but three knockdowns with obvious advantage."
But later Gazprom countered that arbitors "acknowledged the main points of the contract
were in effect and upheld the majority of Gazprom's demands for payment for gas supplies",
worth over $2bn. A Naftogaz official responded that the company never refused to pay for gas
supplied, but challenged price and conditions.
Given the tribunal does not make its decisions public, doubt loomed over which side was
the ultimate winner. Anticipation also grew over the second and final tribunal award expected
early next year over disputes both have concerning past gas transit obligations.
Friday's final Stockholm arbitration ruling follows a preliminary decision from last May
after which both sides were given time to settle monetary claims outside of the tribunal but
failed to reach agreement.
Here is the full Naftogaz statement:
"Today, the Tribunal at the Arbitration Institute of the Stockholm Chamber of Commerce has
completely rejected Gazprom take-or-pay claims to Naftogaz amounting to USD 56 billion for
2009-2017.
– Naftogaz succeeded at reducing future contract volume obligations by more than 10
times and made them relevant to its actual import needs.
– Price for gas off-taken by Naftogaz in 2Q 2014 reduced 27% from USD 485/tcm to USD
352/tcm. – Naftogaz saved USD 1.8 billion on gas purchased in 2014-2015 due to revision
of the contract price.
– Destination clause and other discriminatory provisions were declared invalid to
bring the contract in line with current European market standards.
– Naftogaz estimates the total positive financial effect of the arbitration over the
lifetime of the supply contract at over USD 75 billion.
– Naftogaz claims up to USD 16 billion in transit contract arbitration against
Gazprom; decision expected on 28 February 2018."
Gazprom said that in a separate decision on May 31 of this year, the tribunal denied
Naftogaz's application to review prices from May 2011 to April 2014, ordered it to pay $14bn
for gas supplies during that period, and said that the take-or-pay conditions applied for the
duration of the contract. Gazprom claimed that Naftogaz would have to pay it $2.18bn plus
interest of 0.03 per cent for every day the payments were late, and then pay for 5bn cm of
gas annually starting next year.
When the different sides give opposite accounts of the same decision it obviously becomes
difficult to say what the real decision actually is. However Gazprom says that the court upheld
(1) the main provisions of the contract; (2) the contract's take-or-pay provisions, these being
a particularly contentious issue in the contract; and (3) that Naftogaz has been ordered to pay
Gazprom $2 billion, presumably immediately, with interest for every day the amount is
unpaid.
By contrast the reduction in the gas price Naftogaz refers to from $485/tcm to $352 tcm
which Naftogaz makes much of in its statement appears to apply only to gas supplied to Ukraine
by Gazprom in the second quarter of 2014 and still sets the price of gas supplied to Ukraine by
Gazprom higher than was demanded by Ukraine during this period.
The key point here is that Russia agreed to reduce the price of gas supplied to Ukraine by
an agreement Russia's President Putin reached with Ukraine's President Yanukovich in December
2013. After the Maidan coup the new Ukrainian government went back on the agreement causing the
Russians to demand payment of the original price. However over the course of 2014, as energy
prices began first to slide and then crashed, and as it became clear that Ukraine was simply
not paying for its gas, Russia again reduced the price of the gas Ukraine had to pay.
What seems to have happened is that the Stockholm Arbitration Court decided to smooth out
the price of gas payable by Ukraine throughout 2014, which is the sort of thing arbitration
tribunals are regularly known to do, whilst leaving the essentials of the contract
unchanged.
If so then this is not a victory by Ukraine but a clearcut defeat, which Naftogaz and the
Ukrainian government have tried to spin into a victory by citing the reduction in the gas price
in the second quarter of 2014 and the reduction in future gas import volumes, neither of which
were contentious issues. By contrast it is clear that Ukraine and Naftogaz must pay the full
contractual price and abide by the contract's take-or-pay provisions for the whole of the
period of the contract prior to the second quarter of 2014.
What this means in terms of hard cash is that Ukraine must now pay Russia a further $2
billion on top of the $3 billion it was recently ordered to pay by the High Court in London.
Just as it is holding back on paying the $3 billion it was ordered to pay by the High Court
until the appeal process in London is finished, so it will try to hold off paying the $2
billion it has just been ordered to pay to Gazprom until the final decision of the Stockholm
Arbitration Court (thus the brave talk of Naftogaz's claims of "up to $16 billion transit
contract arbitration against Gazprom") but thereafter payment of the $2 billion will fall due.
I say this because the claim Gazprom owes Naftogaz "up to" $16 billion in transit fees looks
like it has been plucked out of the air.
What this means is that over the course of 2018 Ukraine will have to pay Russia $5 billion
($3 billion awarded by the High Court in London and $2 billion awarded by the Stockholm
Arbitration Court). Since the $2 billion awarded by the Stockholm Arbitration Court is
technically an arbitration award, Gazprom will need to convert it into a court Judgment before
it can enforce it, but that is merely a formality. At that point this debt will become not
merely due but legally enforceable as well.
Ukraine recently borrowed $3 billion on the international financial markets at very high
interest almost certainly in order to pay the $3 billion the High Court in London has ordered
it to pay Russia. Whilst the $2 billion is technically a debt owed by Naftogaz not Ukraine and
its non-payment would does not place Ukraine in a state of sovereign default, Gazprom is in a
position to enforce the debt against Naftogaz's assets (including gas it buys) in the European
Economic Area. It is difficult to see how Naftogaz and Ukraine can avoid payment of this
debt.
Has Ukraine actually gained anything from its long running gas dispute with Russia?
Naftogaz brags that Ukraine has saved up to $75 billion because it is no longer buying gas
from Russia. However this begs the question of whether the gas Ukraine is now importing from
Europe really is significantly cheaper than the gas Ukraine was buying from Russia? This is
debatable and with energy prices rising it is likely to become even less likely over time.
Ukraine has become a tragical farce, is such a paradox exists.
I doubt anybody can dissect who finances Saakashvili. To me he seems to be anothe proxy,
Timoshenko ?
The Ukranian people are the victims here, untold billions being stolen from the people, a
lethargic civil war, that could have been avoided...
What beggars belief really is that some Ukranian politicians held the belief that they could
join NATO and Sevastopol become a NATO base.. That is just alternate reality, and it must be
clear to anyone that it was a no-go. There is a reason Finland is not part of NATO, even
though they are fiercely independent.
The Ukrainian politicians should have taken lessons in "Real-Politik" from Willy Brandt.
Sorry, im against all the antirussian hysteria, but the idea that shakavili is now being paid
by the russians to stir up trouble is just to delicious an irony, not to believe
Saakashvili was the President of Georgia who shelled and invaded South Ossetia back in 2012.
This led to the "Russo-Georgian War" when Russia came to the assistance of the people of
South Ossetia.
Faux Newz had an interesting moment when they interviewed a young American girl who had
recently fled the war. They assumed she was onboard the Russophobia train, but she and her
aunt insisted that Saakashvili was the aggressor and Russia had come to their rescue.
So, I would doubt that Saakashvili is supported by Russia. It's not impossible since
RealPolitiks can make for very strange bedfellows. Saakashvili is a fugitive in two countries
right now, and could be a useful tool for further delegitimizing the Ukrainian putsch
regime.
I think it is Yulia Tymoshenko behind Saakashvili
She seems to be the only oligarch not making out like a bandit plundering Ukraine!!! This
time round!!!
I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people.
At the end of the Soviet Union they had the most potential, but for some reason they seem to
have too many corrupt and ideologically ( neo Nazi) driven politicians. A recipe for conflict
in a country made up of bits and pieces of other countries with Greeks, Hungarians, Jews,
Russians, poles and other groups with their own cultures and identities. The Soviet Union
could keep a lid on all this as it was a large multi- ethnic space, but Ukraine seeking a
single identity is causing the country to split
Saakashvili is a clown and is not the saviour they need. But he could force the country to
declare early elections - then Tymoshenko will reveal herself
From what I recall about Saakashvili entering illegally Ukraine from Poland, he was helped by
the supporters of Timoshenko party.
Concerning the "clownish character", he does not seem to stand out from Ukrainian norm.
There are tons of reasons for popular discontent, and a considerable surplus of leaders who
want to channel that discontent, and as followers of American political scene know, it helps
to be "colorful" (note to HRC: some people are natural in that respect, and some, including
those that you can see in your bathroom, are anything but).
Support for Batkivshchina, the political party of Timoshenko, was in high single digits,
and anti-corruption credibility could lift it a bit. Timoshenko herself oscillated between
"Russian stooge" and ultra-nationalist, and had some period as a tycoon with shady deals
(with Gasprom). She is also a former prime minister with passable tenure, and, given her age,
has pretty hair and face. Energetic Misha can complement her nicely.
Saakashvilli was and is American puppet in Ukraine and at home in Georgia and hence he was
not blown up like those who do not have explicitly protection from US embassy in the
maddening frenzy of collapsing political and moral system in Ukraine spurring brutal murder
spree among warring oligarchic mafia fighting for IMF loot.
Now even authentic Ukrainian Nazis are fed up with Poroshenko the pig, and want him dead
due to him being an western agent of as they put it moral decay and culture anihilatiing
globalism and that include promotion of LGBT mafia he belongs himself. A war between Nazi
grass roots in the west of Ukraine as well as moderate Russian ethnic conservatives in
Donbass area against US/NATO trained and equipped SBU run Kiev regime continues demonstrated
by sheer terror brutality and murder as well as comical episodes like that while collapse of
quite developed civil society continues into barbarism under US plans as it happened in
Afghanistan, Iraq and now in Yemen and Ukraine.
Could Mikhail Khodorkovsky be the "Russian middleman" financing the antics of Saakashvili and
his supporters?
Tymoshenko may be paying Saakashvili and his supporters but this would not work for her
long-term, in that if she became President, Saakashvili would feel entitled to demand a
senior position in her government and he might become a thorn in her side. He could easily
switch sides if she denies him a position and work to undermine her. So no, I don't think
Tymoshenko would be paying him.
More likely someone or a government outside Ukraine who could play Poroshenko, Tymoshenko
or another ambitious oligarch politician off against one other, who would use Saakashvili and
his fan base as tools to push Ukrainian politics this way and that, and who has the money to
do so, is paying Saakashvili.
I am beginning to think that the strategy is to have enough geo-political balls in the air
that obscure and suck focus from the real shit going on so no global consensus can emerge to
stop the insanity.
And it seems to be working for the moment as it has for the past couple of centuries of
rule by the private finance elite.
Well...that is one pretty good sketch of pure slapstick...had me in stitches for a while...
The problem with Ukraine is simple...the US interference since day one...
Think Russia under Yeltsin...but which never got fixed...
Ukraine has been part of Russia for hundreds of years...the difference between the
'Ukrainian' language and Russian is so superficial as to be something like the difference
between say American and Australian English...
...kind of like 'Serbian' and 'Croatian'...
Belarus is an example of a stable post-Soviet society that knows well it doesn't belong in
this Frankenstein 'Europe' of today...
The Orange Revolution was brought on by the usual suspects...ie US and its Euro
proxies...and it failed miserably...
In the next election the people brought Yanukovich back...not to mention that he had won
that disputed election in 2004 anyway...
Then in 2014...the crazy neocons of the Kagan clan went for the gusto...a full-blown
putch...with paid snipers and blackwater mercenaries...
And so the people of Ukraine are sliding into a European version of Yemen...
Ukraine inherited a large part of the Soviet military industrial capacity after
1991...including the crucial human expertise in very high tech sectors like jet and rocket
engines...airframes...and much more...
It was a no-brainer that these industries and the educational system underpinning them
could be a springboard for mutually beneficial economic integration with Russia...think of
Airbus and its French, German and other European partners...
Russia is today a medium-income country with a per capita GDP
[PPP] on a par with EU member Greece and not far behind Italy and Spain...
For the ordinary person Russia is a paradise compared to Ukraine...with three times higher
income...
We find Ukraine trailing countries like Namibia, El Salvador and Morocco...
Even the Eastern European countries like Czech, Poland and Hungary are still far from the
income levels of the major Western European countries...relatively speaking they have not
improved their lot from the Soviet days...
Only now all their industries are foreign-owned...bought for pennies on the dollar...they
pay high prices for
second-class food...
And where they had free university education that was probably second to none in
quality...now they pay through the nose...
Even in the Czech Republic which is the highest income country of the former eastern
bloc...many people feel that things have not improved in the last 25 years...
The fall has been greatest for Ukraine...and certainly this can be traced back to the
constant tugging of the West...not to say outright interference on a criminal level...
Even Germany has long since realized that it needs Russia and that Russia is good for
German business...so how is it that Russia's immediate neighbors...many of which were part of
Russia for centuries...think that they can now burn all bridges...?
It is insane...that's the kind of change only a neocon can believe in...
That's pretty much my take. We are constantly bombarded by "Breaking News" events that
amount to an endless parade of squirrels for us to chase, while real stuff is going on
largely under the radar.
I don't know how deep the connections of that ancient financial elite really go. I think
everyone here agrees that they own/control both party flavors in the US, though some still
want to believe that Trump is somehow breaking that mold (a thesis I find completely
unsubstantiated except as portrayed in the Reality TV Show of political theater).
But, are Russia or China really somewhat independent competitors, or is even that level of
seeming conflict really just manufactured diversion? When I see IMF backing for both of those
countries, I have to wonder just how much BRIC, One Road, etc. are sincere resistance to the
Globalists.
Was Hitler really just a tool for the banksters? Did the Bolsheviks really hijack the
Russian Revolution at the behest of the global banksters?
Is resistance really futile, or are we led to believe the Globalists are much more
powerful than they really are, and their Empire is really just a house of cards that we, the
people could topple easily with mass strikes and boycotts, combined with establishing our own
means of providing the basic necessities to survive the Revolution?
I see large numbers of Honduran police have publicly refused to follow regime orders
against their fellow citizens. Every successful revolution has followed from significant
numbers of the enforcers of the Elite refusing orders and joining with the people.
Saakashvili's involvement in Ukraine goes deeper than his purported anti-corruption campaign.
It seems he was one of the players behind the Maidan massacre, while being aligned with that
scumbag zionist-Ukrainian oligarch Kolomoisky. (see below)
Italy's 11th largest newspaper – Il Giornale – reported on an admission by
several of the snipers
Revazishvilli's confessions and two other Georgians reveal a different and
disconcerting truth. Revazishvilli and his two companions are a former member of the
security services of former Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and two former militants
of his party."
Coincidentally (?) Georgian mercenaries were also a significant component of Kolomoisky's
private army which committed some of the worst atrocities and repeatedly undermined any
attempts to establish a ceasefire. Kolomoisky was forced to back down by the U.S. from his
confrontational stance with Valtzman (Poroshenko) over the division of spoils from the
systematic looting of the Ukraine. His ouster as Governor of Dnipropetrovsk and subsequent
marginalization from the 'spoils of the victors' by Poroshenko likely produced one very
unhappy customer. Kolomoisky, given his history and past actions, does not seem to be the
type of character who would take this lying down.(see following article) His ties to
Saakashvili are quite extensive prior to the rift over Odessa (staged or backstabbing?)
Some of the Georgians who serve in Kolomoisky's Army have reportedly been trained in
the use of BUK missile systems previously sold by Ukraine to Georgia under the presidency of
Mikheil Saakashvili. Kolomoisky has utilized ex-President Saakashvili's "consulting services"
in Dnipropetrovsk in the military and political campaign against the breakaway people's
republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.
"The problem with Ukraine is simple...the US interference since day one "
Its not quite that simple. The problem with Ukraine is that it has become a mafia state
run by organized crime with some three dozen oligarchs controlling approximately 85% of the
economy.
President Kuchma's regime institutionalized the organized crime element in the government in
a manner similar to Yeltsin's action in Russia. The fact that the U.S. government aligned
itself with one oligarchic faction came subsequent to this.
I agree with some here who seem to suggest that this is no more than smoke and mirrors, since
the real thing, which is no other than spreading and consolidation of fascism throughout
Europe and the world, is happening behind the scenes....While you laugh at Saakashvili,
nobody thinks of Parubyi....
"(...)So this is Andriy Parubiy who, as the President of the Ukrainian Parliament (a
position conferred on him in April 2016 for his democratic achievements), was received on 5
June at Montecitorio by the President of the House, Laura Boldrini. "Italy - emphasized
President Boldrini - has always condemned the illegal action that took place to the
detriment of the Ukrainian territory". Thus she has gobbled up the Nato version according
to which it was Russia that had illegally annexed Crimea, a version that fails to take into
account that the Russians of Crimea chose to break away from Ukraine and to re-enter Russia
- a decision taken to pre-empt an attack, just like the decision taken by the Russians of
Donbass, by Neo Nazi battalions and Kiev's other forces.
The cordial conversation was concluded by signing a memorandum of understanding that
"further strengthens parliamentary cooperation between the two assemblies, both at the
political and administrative level".
Thus it strengthens cooperation between the Italian Republic, born out of the Resistance
against Nazi-fascism, and a regime that created in Ukraine a situation analogous to that
which brought into being the fascism of the 1920s and Nazism in the 1930s. The Azov
battalion, whose Nazi signature is represented by the emblem inspired by the SS Das Reich
emblem, has been incorporated into the National Guard, transformed into a regular military
unit and promoted to the rank of a regiment for special operations.
Then it was supplied with armoured transport and artillery. With other Neo-Nazi
formations, transformed into regular units, it is trained by US instructors from the 173a
Air Transport division, transferred from Vicenza to Ukraine, flanked by others from
Nato.
The Ukraine of Kiev has thus become the "nursery" for born-again Nazism right in the
heart of Europe. Neo-Nazis flow into Kiev from all over Europe, including Italy. After
being trained and tested out in military action against the Russians of Ukraine in Donbass,
they have been made to return to their countries. Now it is left to Nato to rejuvenate the
ranks of Gladio."
13,18, and 19 may be correct.. I am no expert, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili
(mentions):
IIR (Intnl Law) TSNU-Kyiv (Ukraine, 1992) Poroshenko discovered. HRTs officer after Pres
Zviad Gamsakhurdia (Georgia)deposed; (US State Dept(Ed Muskie Graduate Fellowship
mentioned?). Columbia Law School, LLm 1994; GW Univ Law School; diploma Intl Institute of HR,
Strasbourg, France. Check wikipedia for details.
@ Daniel who engaged me with contextual musings, pantaraxia who writes that the US is behind
one of the oligarchs and elsi who agrees that there is lots of "smoke and mirrors"
First to pantaraxia I want to write that while you may see the US behind one faction of
oligarchs, I would argue (without links) that the global private finance elite are behind
each and every oligarch you can name...it is a religion after all, don't you know? If one is
an oligarch in our small world you can take it to the bank (pun intended) that they are well
connected/subserviant to the top-rung elite in some way.
To Elsi, Fascism provides a powerful front for the structure of our current form of social
organization with private finance and private property protected by unfettered inheritance at
the core of elite support. All/most of the corporations form the circle around the private
finance core and are controlled by the top rung elite where they are not outright owned.
To Daniel I would state my ongoing postulate that turning private finance into a public
utility and ending inheritance/ongoing ownership of private property would structurally
change the incentives we live our lives by....for the better. I would posit that any
successful evolution of our species must make that one change to our social structure and the
results would "solve all our problems" by changing the fundamental way in which we relate to
each other....competition/cooperation.
Daniel @ 21 said: "When I see IMF backing for both of those countries, I have to wonder just
how much BRIC, One Road, etc. are sincere resistance to the Globalists."
Something I've pondered for quite some time now. Makes one think all this nonsense is just
smoke and mirrors to confuse the peons, as the global elites fleece the sheep.
17, and 24 have hit the nail on the head.. the whole idea of revealing hidden news is to
implement a strategy designed to weaken the power of the masses in favor of the leaders of
the masses. Divide and conquer is a method that implements that strategy. When controversial
subject matter is discussed it weakens consensus. DQ applied to any controversial subject,
weakens the consensus power of the mass(es) much like a second person on one side of a
see-saw weakens the power of the first person to decide for him(her)self which end is up.
Worse, when the two persons counter balance the see-saw, a third person can jump to the
middle and easily control which of the first two are in the air and on the ground. Deep in
the strategy is emotion. A controversial subject matter elicits emotions at various levels on
both sides of controversy.
example: 1000 people.. 500 believe in gun control; 500 believe in open gun society.How did
that happen? What news article could arouse desired or planned response? Let us say in each
of the 500 groups; 30 persons (60 in all) are highly emotionally aroused by the issue; so
target them, they will fight to death those who profess their opposite thought or belief and
they will receive the support of the 430 on their side to start with. Now you have it.
90% of the news is about that.. D&C has been a propaganda technology since Rome days, but
beginning around 1860, using propaganda to effect D&C technology was developed into a
profession and the governments made that technology into a weapon of war.
I believe if the humanity of the world cannot find leadership to solve problems, then the
masses are going to have to find ways to solve problems in spite of the nation states and the
technology used by the nation states to prevent mass solutions that work. Every human being
alive needs to understand the importance of contributing to the needs of the masses.
There's also this: https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/3846671.html
Ukrainian politician Daniel Papiev said on a Ukrainian talk show that, although a census
hasn't been held for many years, the most "optimistic" number is that the population of
Ukraine has declined to 32 million. When the USSR collapsed, Ukraine's population was 52
million, and before Maidan, it was a little over 45 million. Now it's 32. A loss of nearly 20
million people (2 million due to Crimea joining Russia) is an "impressive" result by any
measure (even during the 1932-33 famine years, the Ukrainian population actually rose).
Ukrainian politicians regularly state that at current levels of growth, it will take until
the 2030s to reach "pre-Maidan" levels. If the population keeps declining like this, even
that looks optimistic. It seems that there must be a lot more Ukrainians working in the
shadow economy both in the EU and in Russia than is officially known about.
Slightly off-topic and trivial, but Tatyana Montyan said that Tymoshenko always used other
people's money, and never shared it with anyone. I assume you've seen this clip from 2014 but
if not you'll probably find it entertaining, since you have an interest in the players.
Montoyan mentions Yulya around the 10:00 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtarbgbfHc
10:07 Yulia has always been very greedy and has never worked with her own money, and the
people knew that the Party of Regions guys at least pay their bills,
10:17 They will pay with some government positions, bribes, some land and so on, Yulya
could only say: "Thank you very much!"
10:27 And that's why I know that all BYT party structures in Cherkassy worked for the
Party of Regions. I think around the country it's the same.
10:38 She was winning in the polls in fact, but she lost, of course, because she didn't
want to invest in protecting her results
10:48 So now the situation will be the same. She has nothing. She has always been
working with other's resources.
The whole clip is funny. Montoyan says that Poroshenko is a thief and the son of a thief,
and that she met Tymoshenko who was at the time just a small-time thief.
More seriously, I owe this interview for the understanding that Ukraine is completely run
by thieves for thieves. Once one knows that, all mysteries of statecraft are solved. There
truly is no statecraft. Event the wars against the Donbass are to allocate war funds to be
stolen.
@Daniel 8, Minor correction the U.S.-backed Georgian attack on Ossetia was in 2008. That was
a Condoleezza Rice-arranged action, which turned into a debacle.
Here's one decent summary from Dec 2008: (A bit biased towards standard western
narrative, but better than a lot of the "Russia just attacked Georgia!" claims by CBS etc.)
"The tense but relatively stable situation blew up late in the evening of August 7, when on
the order of president Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgia's army swept into South Ossetia,
leveling much of Tskhinvali and surrounding villages and sending some 30,000 refugees
fleeing north into Russia. Within hours, Russia's de facto czar Vladimir Putin
counterattacked -- some say he'd set a trap -- and by the end of that long weekend the
Georgians were in panicked retreat. The Russian army then pushed straight through South
Ossetia and deep into Georgia proper, halting less than an hour's drive from Saakashvili's
luxurious palace."
American military advisers had been training and supplying Georgian troops up to a few
days before the invasion. There were at least 100 in the country, so you can guess that
Saakashvili wouldn't have acted without the green light from the U.S. Part of the whole
'encircle Russia' strategy developed after it became clear Putin wouldn't let western
interests take control of Russian natural resources. In any case, it's fairly hard to see how
the Russian government would ever work with Saakashvili after that.
Everyone in the current Ukrainian government seems half-crazy at least, a bunch of
oligarchs and mafia dons with all the usual squabbles over power and prestige.
This is a walk down memory lane, I was watching this pretty closely at the time (I have a
grandmother whose family is from Ossetia, so it was of personal interest). It was all a
pretty crude brutal power play over pipeline control, with reckless disregard for the
consequences - another Outlaw US Empire stunt. The coordinated timing to the Beijing Olympics
(@40 Hague) is strange - deliberate?
One factor I was unaware of at the time is the explosion on the BTC
pipeline in Turkey (the BTC runs from the Caspian Sea through Azerbaijan, Georgia and
Turkey to the Mediterranean) on August 5, 2008. Originally Kurdish separatists claimed credit
although nobody seems to be sure. Regardless, the main U.S. interest in Eastern Europe is
controlling the pipeline routes to Europe. In Central Asia, the game is controlling oilfield
production, while not allowing exports through Iran or Russia.
@47 mischi the Israeli involvement likely revolved around this Israeli proposal from
2006:
[Israeli] National Infrastructures Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer told the Ambassador on
June 21 that he recently returned from an oil and gas conference in Azerbaijan, where he
met with government officials and discussed extending the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC)
pipeline to Israel. According to Ben-Eliezer, the pipeline is currently expected to run 220
km. from Azerbaijan to Georgia and Turkey. Adding Israel would extend the pipeline an
additional 400 km., and Azerbaijan could subsequently use the Ashkelon-Eilat pipeline to
transmit oil to the Red Sea for sale to customers in East Asia.
As part of this, the U.S. suggested joint military drills with Turkey, Israel and
Georgia:
TGS will consider future regional Special Operations Forces (SOF) exercises in cooperation
with Israel, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. (2007) . . .
. . . [Nasrallah] was also quoted as saying that Israel exported failed generals to
train the Georgian army, referring to Brig. Gen. (res.) Gal Hirsch, who resigned his
command after the Second Lebanon War
There are also many credible reports of Georgia using cluster munitions manufactured by
Israel against Ossetia civilians and Russian forces; Human Rights Watch claimed Russia used
cluster munitions as well; Georgia admitted to it but Russia denied using them. HRW often
does not come across as impartial in these conflicts.
Georgia used the M85 submunition during the conflict, fired from GRADLAR rockets, which
were purchased from Israel. . . it was also likely that the Georgians felt so overwhelmed
by the Russian attack, they merely fired off everything they had with little thought to
strike distance or consequences on the civilian population.
The overall agenda here has been the US State Department & Pentagon-coordinated plan
to help Exxon and Chevron export oil from their leases in Kazakhstan (Israel being a bit
player looking to secure oil supplies and transit fees):
Feb 2010: We are focused on helping the Kazakhstanis implement the Kazakhstan-Caspian
Transportation System (KCTS), which envisions a virtual pipeline of tankers transporting
large volumes of crude from Kazakhstan's Caspian coast to Baku, from where it will flow
onward to market through Georgia, including through the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline.
Kill and slaughter for oil profits, same old game.
The agenda of Human Rights Watch (which was founded as Helsinki Watch)frequently aligns
with that of the US State Dept., ignoring or downplaying crimes of friends of the US and
highlighting alleged crimes of US enemies.
"... So the Ukrainian government is admitting that their previous narrative is false – and that the ultra-rghtist Svoboda and Right Sector, who were the military arm of the Maidan protesters, provoked the incident that led to Yanukovich's overthrow. ..."
"... are opposed to the Minsk agreement, brokered by the EU, which makes concessions to the east Ukrainians. ..."
The truth is often ignored, at first, and when that becomes impossible, truth-tellers are often punished. As two incidents starkly
reveal, this is certainly the case when it comes to the civil war in Ukraine and Washington's unfolding cold war with Russia.
The first illustration of our truth-telling principle occurred after the "Maidan revolution" had already captured the imagination
of the Western media, which was busy promulgating the official view as given expression by US government officials. According to
this narrative, the "protesters" were heroes, the government of "Russian-backed' Viktor Yanukovich was a coven of devils, and the
catalyzing incident that led to Yanukovich's ouster, the
shooting of protesters in the
Maidan, was the work of the Berkut, the Ukrainian government's militarized police.
There's just one problem with this story: it isn't true. A
leaked phone call between Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas
Paet and European Union High Representative for Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton, revealed that the protesters were shot by their
own leaders – the radical nationalists who had military control of the Maiden.
... ... ...
Ashton's main concern seemed to be that this would get out and discredit the new government "from the very beginning."
Oh, but not to worry: it didn't get out, at least not in the United States. There were oblique mentions of the recording in the
mainstream media, but only weeks afterward and then without any specifics: two months after the fact, the Los Angeles Timesreferred to it in
the vaguest terms, only to dismiss it as a "conspiracy theory." The New York Times didn't cover it: neither did the War
Street Journal, Time magazine, or any of the other usual suspects. The Daily Beast, typically, served as a mouthpiece
for the official Washington-Kiev account,
citing Dr. Bogomolets as claiming her conversation with Paet was a "misunderstanding." Yet Paet didn't cite her as his sole source:
he said "all the evidence." No doubt the Estonians have their own sources in the country, and it's improbable the Foreign
Minister would have made such an assertion based on a single person's testimony.
In any case, the story was pretty much buried here in the US, with the exception of
this space and a few other
alternative news sources.
But in Europe, it was a different story: the German public television station ARD carried
a report which threw the identity of the Maidan shooters
into serious question. And more recently the BBC produced a documentary, "The
Untold Story of the Maidan Massacre," in which eyewitnesses assert that the Berkut were fired on from positions controlled by
the ultra-nationalist Svoboda Party, which, along with the neo-Nazi "Right Sector" organization, ran Maidan security.
Still, the story was ignored in the US, but that may not be possible much longer, and the reason springs from an unlikely source:
the current Ukrainian government of President Petro Poroshenko.
Last week Ukrainian police
raided the homes
of Svoboda Party leadersOleksandr Sych, who served
as Deputy Prime Minister in the post-Maidan government, and
Ole Pankevich,
whose 2013 appearance at a neo-Nazi memorial event provoked the ire of the World Jewish Congress. The Ukrainian prosecutor's office
confirmed that the raid was conducted as part of an investigation into the Maidan shootings:
"The court warrant for the raid on the apartment of Pankevich, a former MP and the ex-head of Lviv regional council, explicitly
referred to a BBC documentary on the subject, according to a copy of the warrant In the documentary, journalist Gabriel Gatehouse
spoke to an opposition nationalist rifleman who had acknowledged having fired on riot police in the morning of February 20."
"[A]lso refers to video footage that showed a rifleman firing out of the Hotel Ukraina, situated on Maidan. The room from
which he fired was occupied at the time by Pankevich, according to the court warrant.
"Police also raided the apartment of Sich, vice-prime minister in the immediate post-Maidan government in 2014, also in
connection with shots fired from the same hotel, where he was also staying on February 20.
"An assistant to Ukraine's prosecutor general, Vladislav Kutsenko, confirmed to the Ukrainian TV channel 112 that searches
of the Svoboda leaders' apartments were linked to an investigation of the February 20 events."
So the Ukrainian government is admitting that their previous narrative is false – and that the ultra-rghtist Svoboda and Right
Sector, who were the military arm of the Maidan protesters, provoked the incident that led to Yanukovich's overthrow.
Why this stunning turnaround?
Both Svoboda and Right Sector have declared war on the Poroshenko regime and are calling for a "national
revolution" – one that would install them in power. The ultra-nationalists are opposed to the Minsk agreement, brokered by
the EU, which makes concessions to the east Ukrainians.
The far right is accusing Poroshenko of "betraying the revolution." They scoff at the ceasefire as a "sellout" because they want
the civil war to continue: and as Poroshenko makes draconian cuts in the government budget in order to mollify Ukraine's creditors,
and to ensure the flow of Western funding, the rightists are gaining ground politically. And they are getting increasingly violent,
staging a riot in front of the parliament building in
which three officers were
killed by
a grenade hurled at policemen: 130 cops were injured. The rightists were protesting the decision by the parliament to grant
the eastern rebels some small degree of autonomy. This incident followed a
series of
shoot-outs with the armed rightist gang known as Right
Sector, which played a key role
in the Maidan protest movement.
That the Poroshenko government, which had previously stonewalled any serious effort to investigate the shooting deaths that sent
Yanukovich packing, is playing this card now is an indication of the regime's desperation in the face of a challenge from the ultra-right.
For to upend the official narrative – one that is fully supported by their Western sponsors, and their amen corner in the media –
is to subvert the very foundations of the post-Maidan order. If the truth comes out, the ultra-nationalists may be finished – but
so may the government that exposes their murderous role.
"... "We live at the time of a certain degrading of European institutions and their external weakening, including by Russia. You can accept it and go with the flow but you can also recognize the fact try to resist it." ..."
Ha, ha!!! The Victim Of The Aggressor Country seldom fails to entertain. Here we have VR Deputy Chairperson Ira Gerashchenko
bossing Europe around , and telling it that the Victim Of The Aggressor Country's parliamentary delegation will continue to
insist on Russia not returning to the Council of Europe. Because, she says, Russia has stolen part of the territory of the VOTAC
which was a gift from Russia in the first place (although she doesn't mention that last part), thereby setting a precedent for
every country which has a province 'liberated' by the west to term it stolen by the west. But that wasn't my favourite part. No;
this is – "We live at the time of a certain degrading of European institutions and their external weakening, including by
Russia. You can accept it and go with the flow but you can also recognize the fact try to resist it."
Beautiful, Ira!! Inspiring!! And how many degraded European leaders are Billionaires who openly own an impressive slate of
businesses and media in their countries, which they
continue to operate and profit from while piously declaring their only interest is the welfare of the country? Which is, by
the bye,
the most corrupt country in Europe ?
How many Prosecutors-General has the VOTAC had since its glorious liberation from the yoke of the Moskali? Yes, you can certainly
teach Yurrup a thing or two about integrity.
It must be embarrassing to be European these days. To be dressed down by the corrupt country you support on handouts because
you are not doing enough to support it. First we had the 'Me' generation. Then we had the 'Me' country.
The international organization for migration has published official data which shows
that every fourth prostitute in Europe is a citizen of Ukraine.
The article discusses pamphlets that are distributed to young Ukrainian girls/women
advising them on how to survive and flourish in new realities of life in the EU.
the Ukrainian labor market is being formed and is growing. Even if there is no other
work and none is expected, girls should know that Europe will take care of them. The younger
generation of Ukrainian schoolgirls will find out how to apply themselves If you are involved
in the sex business, then this brochure is for you," it is said in the introduction. "You
have chosen a very dangerous profession, but if you always follow these simple rules, then
you will get a chance to live a long life You shouldn't serve several clients alone, you
should avoid drunk clients, and also always to take payment in advance. And when you go to
the client's apartment, try to learn in what district of the city it is located, give
preference to hotels".
It's okay if you're a hooker, and all you have to sell is yourself. You have chosen a
dangerous profession, but really the writing was on the wall, wasn't it, if only you'd had
sense to read it? And the economic calamity which has come to pass in your country is really
no concern of ours, while for our part we are not too upset at being offered the choice of
some of the most beautiful young women on the planet, who will do anything you say for a
handful of euros.
Here's to your bright new future in the EU. Incredible. I wonder if Poroshenko will tout
this statistic as another validation of Ukrainians' confidence in his leadership.
Before the revolution, Ukraine's external debt was more than now: 142 billion dollars. Now,
as of July 1, 2017 it is slightly less than 114 billion. How this can happen during civil war
it is not very clear...
But the country's GDP in three years fell exactly two times. That's what typically happens
during civil war. It was 183 billion dollars, and now became 93 billion. That means $2186 per
capita in 2016 year... With the average salary around $150 a month and the average pension less
then $80 a month.
"... Although I voted for Trump, only because he was a slightly smaller POS than Hillary, it's hard to have any sympathy for him. ..."
"... The Democrats and the Deep State should have accused Israel of interfering in US elections. That would have been a credible complaint. ..."
"... Felix, Except that Israel and her deep state puppets were interfering on behalf of the democrats. ..."
"... What is happening in the U.S. is the same MO the CIA has developed over the past 64 years to create turmoil within a nation to overthrow a ruler that would not comply with the dictates of Wall Street. ..."
"... I am presently reading the book " JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W.Douglass and it is exactly why Kennedy was assassinated by the very same group that desperately wants to see Trump gone and the rapprochement with Russia squashed. ..."
"... Russia-gate - Just another weapon of mass distraction, brought to you by the liars in charge. ..."
"... David Stockman's excellent analysis makes clear that Trump doesn't know what he's doing and has appointed poor advisors, many of whom have been working against him from the start. Yet, per Stockman, "he doesn't need to be the passive object of a witch hunt." He could have and should have exposed the crimes of his accusers from the beginning, while he still had 100% support from the anti-war Right, which put him in office in the first place. He should have ignored the hysteria emanating from his enemies, and made peace with Vladimir Putin as a first order of business. Millions would have supported him. ..."
"... But, after his provocations in Syria and against Russia, which really resulted because he gave control of military decisions to uber hawk and Russia-phobic Mad Dog Mattis, his support from the anti-war crowd has all but evaporated and is unlikely to return. In other words, although he has been treated extremely unfairly by the corporate media, ultimately he has no one to blame but himself. Trump, with his endless stupid tweeting, has become a sad caricature of himself. ..."
"... When an outsider (like Trump) is elected POTUS and promises to do harm to the Pentagon, against the will of the Deep State -- the battle is on. A coup was planned against him, even before he took the oath of office. And, BTW--against the will of the people ..."
"... The Deep State bureaucracy will never let him have full control. Apparently, Obomber and Killery are running a Shadow White House, with all major decisions coming from the Deep State actors thereof. ..."
"... Killery still has her security clearance, by which she knew where the US Military would strike in Syria before Trump had any idea what was going on ..."
"... The Pentagon has seized power and does not recognize any elected or appointed power of the US government. Trump's 'power' is non-existent. If this 'soft coup' becomes a hard one, I predict all hell breaking loose in America ..."
"... "In a word, the Little Putsch in Kiev is now begetting a Great Big Coup in the Imperial City." Interesting point of view from David Stockman. Whatever happens in Washington, one can be sure there will come another provocation against Russia. ..."
"... This will probably be the Joint Investigation Team's final word on the shootdown of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014, not long after the little putsch in Kiev. The Joint Investigation Team relies on the Dutch Safety Board's Final Report on Flight MH17. With this report, the Dutch Safety Board has given the world a classic snow job, which I have pointed out in my critique on it. Please read it on my website at www.show-the-house.com/id119.html and share it with your elected representatives. Maybe a collective effort can head this off . ..."
"... Not the first time! "US Power Elite, at war among themselves?" https://wipokuli.wordpress.com/2012/12/07/us-powe... ..."
"... Watching from Australia what passes for domestic politics in the US within the media, reminds me of a primitive tribe reacting to a solar eclipse. They run around in hysterical fear gnashing their teeth thinking the great evil spirit has come to steal their corn, carry off their daughters, and destroy their village. ..."
Although I voted for Trump, only because he was a slightly smaller POS than Hillary, it's hard to have any sympathy for him.
Every time he walks out on a stage clapping his hands, encouraging applause, like a daytime TV game show host, I want to puke.
I honestly don't think Trump really expected to win the presidency. And when he did, he was clueless. His "Mission Accomplished"
party at the White House for a bill which would never pass the senate, was pure Dubya Bush. The orange haired POS is an embarrassment
to the country.
What is happening in the U.S. is the same MO the CIA has developed over the past 64 years to create turmoil within a nation
to overthrow a ruler that would not comply with the dictates of Wall Street.
The "ultimate goal" (according to internal memos), is to collect on the fraudulent $20 trillion national debt which will result
in Wall Street owning the United States. Hello, Greece.
I am presently reading the book " JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W.Douglass and it is exactly why Kennedy was assassinated
by the very same group that desperately wants to see Trump gone and the rapprochement with Russia squashed.
Peace is not
in their books,war is. John Kennedy had an epiphany and was wanting to make peace with the USSR at the time, after the Cuban crisis,
and this could not be allowed to happen .
David Stockman's excellent analysis makes clear that Trump doesn't know what he's doing and has appointed poor advisors,
many of whom have been working against him from the start. Yet, per Stockman, "he doesn't need to be the passive object of a witch
hunt." He could have and should have exposed the crimes of his accusers from the beginning, while he still had 100% support from
the anti-war Right, which put him in office in the first place. He should have ignored the hysteria emanating from his enemies,
and made peace with Vladimir Putin as a first order of business. Millions would have supported him.
But, after his provocations in Syria and against Russia, which really resulted because he gave control of military decisions
to uber hawk and Russia-phobic Mad Dog Mattis, his support from the anti-war crowd has all but evaporated and is unlikely to return.
In other words, although he has been treated extremely unfairly by the corporate media, ultimately he has no one to blame but
himself. Trump, with his endless stupid tweeting, has become a sad caricature of himself.
Stockman has only been a Congressman. They are allowed more leeway.
When an outsider (like Trump) is elected POTUS and promises
to do harm to the Pentagon, against the will of the Deep State -- the battle is on. A coup was planned against him, even before
he took the oath of office. And, BTW--against the will of the people, themselves.
The Deep State bureaucracy will never let him have full control. Apparently, Obomber and Killery are running a Shadow White
House, with all major decisions coming from the Deep State actors thereof.
You can't write an article about a 'soft coup' and NOT mention her name in connection with it!
The Pentagon has seized power and does not recognize any elected or appointed power of the US government. Trump's 'power'
is non-existent. If this 'soft coup' becomes a hard one, I predict all hell breaking loose in America.
"In a word, the Little Putsch in Kiev is now begetting a Great Big Coup in the Imperial City." Interesting point of view
from David Stockman. Whatever happens in Washington, one can be sure there will come another provocation against Russia.
This will probably be the Joint Investigation Team's final word on the shootdown of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over eastern
Ukraine on 17 July 2014, not long after the little putsch in Kiev. The Joint Investigation Team relies on the Dutch Safety Board's
Final Report on Flight MH17. With this report, the Dutch Safety Board has given the world a classic snow job, which I have pointed
out in my critique on it. Please read it on my website at www.show-the-house.com/id119.html
and share it with your elected representatives. Maybe a collective effort can head this off .
Watching from Australia what passes for domestic politics in the US within the media, reminds me of a primitive tribe reacting
to a solar eclipse. They run around in hysterical fear gnashing their teeth thinking the great evil spirit has come to steal their
corn, carry off their daughters, and destroy their village.
Emotional ignorance and blindness to the rational reality will only lead to more tears.
"... In addition to funding Bellingcat and joint ventures with the CIA, Brin's Google is heavily invested in Crowdstrike, an American cybersecurity technology firm based in Irvine, California. ..."
"... Crowdstrike is the main "source" of the "Russians hacked the DNC" story. ..."
"... Allegations of Russian perfidy are routinely issued by private companies with lucrative US Department of Defense (DoD) contracts. The companies claiming to protect the nation against "threats" have the ability to manufacture "threats". ..."
"... US offensive cyber operations have emphasized political coercion and opinion shaping, shifting public perception in NATO countries as well as globally in ways favorable to the US, and to create a sense of unease and distrust among perceived adversaries such as Russia and China. ..."
"... The Snowden revelations made it clear that US offensive cyber capabilities can and have been directed both domestically and internationally. The notion that US and NATO cyber operations are purely defensive is a myth. ..."
"... The perception that a foreign attacker may have infiltrated US networks, is monitoring communications, and perhaps considering even more damaging actions, can have a disorienting effect. ..."
"... In the world of US "hybrid warfare" against Russia, offensive cyber operations work in tandem with NATO propaganda efforts, perhaps best exemplified by the "online investigation" antics of the Atlantic Council's Eliot Higgins and his Bellingcat disinformation site. ..."
Yellow journalism now employs "open source and social media investigation" scams foisted by
Eliot Higgins and the Bellingcat disinformation site.
Bellingcat is allied with the New York Times and the Washington Post, the two principal mainstream
media organs for "regime change" propaganda, via the First Draft Coalition "partner network".
In a triumph of Orwellian Newspeak, this Google-sponsored "post-Truth" Propaganda 3.0 coalition
declares that member organizations will "work together to tackle common issues, including ways
to streamline the verification process".
The New York Times routinely hacks up Bellingcat "reports" and pretends they're "verification"
Malachy Browne, "Senior Story Producer" at the New York Times, cited Bellingcat to embellish
the media "story" about the Khan Shaykhun chemical incident in Idlib Syria.
Before joining the Times, Browne was an editor at "social news and marketing agency" Storyful
and at Reported. ly, the "social reporting" arm of Pierre Omidyar's First Look Media.
Browne generously "supplemented" his "reporting" on the Khan Shaykun incident with "videos
gathered by the journalist Eliot Higgins and the social media news agency Storyful".
Browne encouraged Times readers to participate in the Bellingcat-style "verification" charade:
"Find a computer, get on Google Earth and match what you see in the video to the streets and buildings"
Browne of Storyful and Higgins of Bellingcat are founding members of the Google-funded "First
Draft" coalition.
Browne demonstrates how the NYT and other "First Draft" coalition media outlets use video to
"strengthen" their "storytelling".
In 2016, the NYT video department hired Browne and Andrew Glazer. a senior producer on the
team that launched VICE News, to help "enhance" the "reporting" at the Times.
Browne represents the Times' effort to package its dubious "reporting" using the Storyful marketing
strategy of "building trust, loyalty, and revenue with insight and emotionally driven content"
wedded with Bellingcat style "digital forensics" scams.
In other words, we should expect the New York Times, Washington Post, BBC, UK Guardian, and
all the other "First Draft" coalition media "partners" to barrage us more Bellingcat / Atlantic
Council-style Facebook and YouTube video mashups, crazy fun with Google Earth, and Twitter campaigns.
Abe , September 16, 2017 at 7:00 pm
There is no reason to assume that the trollish rants of "Voytenko" are from some outraged flag-waving
"patriot" in Kiev. There are plenty of other "useful idiots" ready, willing and able to make mischief.
For example, about a million Jews emigrated to Israel ("made Aliyah") from the post-Soviet
states during the 1990s. Some 266,300 were Ukrainian Jews. A large number of Ukrainian Jews also
emigrated to the United States during this period. For example, out of an estimated 400 thousand
Russian-speaking Jews in Metro New York, the largest number (thirty-six percent) hail from Ukraine.
Needless to say, many among them are not so well disposed toward the nations of Russia or Ukraine,
and quite capable of all manner of mischief.
A particularly "useful idiot" making mischief the days is Sergey Brin of Google. Brin's parents
were graduates of Moscow State University who emigrated from the Soviet Union in 1979 when their
son was five years old.
Google, the company that runs the most visited website in the world, the company that owns
YouTube, is very snugly in bed with the US military-industrial-surveillance complex.
In fact, Google was seed funded by the US National Security Agency (NSA) and Central Intelligence
Agency (CIA). The company now enjoys lavish "partnerships" with military contractors like SAIC,
Northrop Grumman and Blackbird.
Google's mission statement from the outset was "to organize the world's information and make
it universally accessible and useful".
In a 2004 letter prior to their initial public offering, Google founders Larry Page and Sergey
Brin explained their "Don't be evil" culture required objectivity and an absence of bias: "We
believe it is important for everyone to have access to the best information and research, not
only to the information people pay for you to see."
The corporate giant appears to have replaced the original motto altogether. A carefully reworded
version appears in the Google Code of Conduct: "You can make money without doing evil".
This new gospel allows Google and its "partners" to make money promoting propaganda and engaging
in surveillance, and somehow manage to not "be evil". That's "post-truth" logic for you.
Indeed, a very cozy cross-promotion is happening between Google and Bellingcat.
In November 2014, Google Ideas and Google For Media, partnered the George Soros-funded Organised
Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) to host an "Investigathon" in New York City. Google
Ideas promoted Higgins' "War and Pieces: Social Media Investigations" song and dance via their
YouTube page.
Higgins constantly insists that Bellingcat "findings" are "reaffirmed" by accessing imagery
in Google Earth.
Google Earth, originally called EarthViewer 3D, was created by Keyhole, Inc, a Central Intelligence
Agency (CIA) funded company acquired by Google in 2004. Google Earth uses satellite images provided
by the company Digital Globe, a supplier of the US Department of Defense (DoD) with deep connections
to both the military and intelligence communities.
The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) is both a combat support agency under the
United States Department of Defense, and an intelligence agency of the United States Intelligence
Community. Robert T. Cardillo, director of the NGA, lavishly praised Digital Globe as "a true
mission partner in every sense of the word". Examination of the Board of Directors of Digital
Globe reveals intimate connections to DoD and CIA
Google has quite the history of malicious behavior. In what became known as the "Wi-Spy" scandal,
it was revealed that Google had been collecting hundreds of gigabytes of payload data, including
personal and sensitive information. First names, email addresses, physical addresses, and a conversation
between two married individuals planning an extra-marital affair were all cited by the FCC. In
a 2012 settlement, the Federal Trade Commission announced that Google will pay $22.5 million for
overriding privacy settings in Apple's Safari browser. Though it was the largest civil penalty
the Federal Trade Commission had ever imposed for violating one of its orders, the penalty as
little more than symbolic for a company that had $2.8 billion in earnings the previous quarter.
Google is a joint venture partner with the CIA In 2009, Google Ventures and In-Q-Tel invested
"under $10 million each" into Recorded Future shortly after the company was founded. The company
developed technology that strips information from web pages, blogs, and Twitter accounts.
In addition to funding Bellingcat and joint ventures with the CIA, Brin's Google is heavily
invested in Crowdstrike, an American cybersecurity technology firm based in Irvine, California.
Crowdstrike is the main "source" of the "Russians hacked the DNC" story.
Dmitri Alperovitch, co-founder and chief technology officer of CrowdStrike, is a Senior Fellow
at the Atlantic Council "regime change" think tank. Alperovitz said that Crowdstrike has "high
confidence" it was "Russian hackers". "But we don't have hard evidence," Alperovitch admitted
in a June 16, 2016 Washington Post interview.
Allegations of Russian perfidy are routinely issued by private companies with lucrative
US Department of Defense (DoD) contracts. The companies claiming to protect the nation against
"threats" have the ability to manufacture "threats".
The US and UK possess elite cyber capabilities for both cyberspace espionage and offensive
operations.
Both the US National Security Agency (NSA) and the British Government Communications Headquarters
(GCHQ) are intelligence agencies with a long history of supporting military operations. US military
cyber operations are the responsibility of US Cyber Command, whose commander is also the head
of the NSA.
US offensive cyber operations have emphasized political coercion and opinion shaping, shifting
public perception in NATO countries as well as globally in ways favorable to the US, and to create
a sense of unease and distrust among perceived adversaries such as Russia and China.
The Snowden revelations made it clear that US offensive cyber capabilities can and have
been directed both domestically and internationally. The notion that US and NATO cyber operations
are purely defensive is a myth.
Recent US domestic cyber operations have been used for coercive effect, creating uncertainty
and concern within the American government and population.
The perception that a foreign attacker may have infiltrated US networks, is monitoring
communications, and perhaps considering even more damaging actions, can have a disorienting effect.
In the world of US "hybrid warfare" against Russia, offensive cyber operations work in
tandem with NATO propaganda efforts, perhaps best exemplified by the "online investigation" antics
of the Atlantic Council's Eliot Higgins and his Bellingcat disinformation site.
Abe , September 16, 2017 at 1:58 pm
Higgins and Bellingcat receives direct funding from the Open Society Foundations (OSF) founded
by business magnate George Soros, and from Google's Digital News Initiatives (DNI).
Google's 2017 DNI Fund Annual Report describes Higgins as "a world–leading expert in news verification".
In their zeal to propagate the story of Higgins as a courageous former "unemployed man" now
busy independently "Codifying social conflict data", Google neglects to mention Higgins' role
as a "research fellow" for the NATO-funded Atlantic Council "regime change" think tank.
Despite their claims of "independent journalism", Eliot Higgins and the team of disinformation
operatives at Bellingcat depend on the Atlantic Council to promote their "online investigations".
The Atlantic Council donors list includes:
– US government and military entities: US State Department, US Air Force, US Army, US Marines.
– The NATO military alliance
– Large corporations and major military contractors: Chevron, Google, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon,
BP, ExxonMobil, General Electric, Northrup Grumman, SAIC, ConocoPhillips, and Dow Chemical
– Foreign governments: United Arab Emirates (UAE; which gives the think tank at least $1 million),
Kingdom of Bahrain, City of London, Ministry of Defense of Finland, Embassy of Latvia, Estonian
Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Defense of Georgia
– Other think tanks and think tankers: Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS),
Nicolas Veron of Bruegel (formerly at PIIE), Anne-Marie Slaughter (head of New America Foundation),
Michele Flournoy (head of Center for a New American Security), Center for Middle East Policy at
Brookings Institution.
Higgins is a Research Associate of the Department of War Studies at King's College, and was
principal co-author of the Atlantic Council "reports" on Ukraine and Syria.
Damon Wilson, Executive Vice President of Programs and Strategy at the Atlantic Council, a
co-author with Higgins of the report, effusively praised Higgins' effort to bolster anti-Russian
propaganda:
Wilson stated, "We make this case using only open source, all unclassified material. And none
of it provided by government sources. And it's thanks to works, the work that's been pioneered
by human rights defenders and our partner Eliot Higgins, uh, we've been able to use social media
forensics and geolocation to back this up." (see Atlantic Council video presentation minutes 35:10-36:30)
However, the Atlantic Council claim that "none" of Higgins' material was provided by government
sources is an obvious lie.
Higgins' primary "pieces of evidence" are a video depicting a Buk missile launcher and a set
of geolocation coordinates that were supplied by the SBU (Security Service of Ukraine) and the
Ukrainian Ministry of Interior via the Facebook page of senior-level Ukrainian government official
Arsen Avakov, the Minister of Internal Affairs.
Higgins and the Atlantic Council are working in support of the Pentagon and Western intelligence's
"hybrid war" against Russia.
The laudatory bio of Higgins on the Kings College website specifically acknowledges his service
to the Atlantic Council:
"an award winning investigative journalist and publishes the work of an international alliance
of fellow investigators using freely available online information. He has helped inaugurate open-source
and social media investigations by trawling through vast amounts of data uploaded constantly on
to the web and social media sites. His inquiries have revealed extraordinary findings, including
linking the Buk used to down flight MH17 to Russia, uncovering details about the August 21st 2013
Sarin attacks in Damascus, and evidencing the involvement of the Russian military in the Ukrainian
conflict. Recently he has worked with the Atlantic Council on the report "Hiding in Plain Sight",
which used open source information to detail Russia's military involvement in the crisis in Ukraine."
While it honors Higgins' enthusiastic "trawling", King's College curiously neglects to mention
that Higgins' "findings" on the Syian sarin attacks were thoroughly debunked.
King's College also curiously neglects to mention the fact that Higgins, now listed as a Senior
Fellow at the Atlantic Council's "Future Europe Initiative", was principal co-author of the April
2016 Atlantic Council "report" on Syria.
The report's other key author was John E. Herbst, United States Ambassador to Ukraine from
September 2003 to May 2006 (the period that became known as the Orange Revolution) and Director
of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center.
Other report authors include Frederic C. Hof, who served as Special Adviser on Syrian political
transition to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in 2012. Hof was previously the Special Coordinator
for Regional Affairs in the US Department of State's Office of the Special Envoy for Middle East
Peace, where he advised Special Envoy George Mitchel. Hof had been a Resident Senior Fellow in
the Atlantic Council's Rafik Hariri Center for the Middle East since November 2012, and assumed
the position as Director in May 2016.
There is no daylight between the "online investigations" of Higgins and Bellingcat and the
"regime change" efforts of the NATO-backed Atlantic Council.
Thanks to the Atlantic Council, Soros, and Google, it's a pretty well-funded gig for fake "citizen
investigative journalist" Higgins.
The US has sent to the Ukraine its first consignment of coal
August 22, 11:28 UTC+3 The delivery price was $113 per ton
The beginning of the end for "Novorossiya"?
I am certain that is an interpretation that the resident troll will be eager to spout out.
Не секрет, что российский энергетический уголь Киев раньше закупал по 60-70 долларов за тонну.
Донбасский обходился украинцам еще дешевле. Но затем официальный Киев под предлогом "войны с Москвой"
отказался от дешевых энергоресурсов.
It is no secret that Kiev used to buy Russian power station coal at $60-70 per tonne. The
Donbass made even cheaper deals with the Ukrainians . But then official Kiev, on the pretext of
a "war with Moscow," refused cheap energy resources.
Who's paying for it? The IMF? So the money goes back to the U.S?
I've seen multiple instances of this occuring in Ukraine, i.e. the purchasing of unnecessarily
expensive goods, with money they technically don't have. It's not always a "Russian substitution"
thing either.
Somebody's laughing all the way to the bank, at least. Good on them.
That's their privilege. And they will be able to exercise it, in theory, for so long as the western
taxpayer is prepared to see the IMF allot Ukraine money to buy energy at prices far higher than
it could obtain it elsewhere. I daresay in the meantime someone else will buy Donbas coal. It's
not like this is going to break them. Although the USA will pocket the taxpayers' money – again
– which is one of its preferred ways of doing business.
" seem to be smart enough not to concentrate in one region. "
Uh-huh. Thanks for update, et Al! Just recently the Ukrian Foreign ministry revealed data
pertaining to the "success" of the Sacred BezViz. They claim that 200 000 of the Ukrainians
used it since its inception on 11 June this year. How much is it compared to other years
– I have no data ATM. The №1 destination place of these tourists surprised me
– it's Barcelona! Second place hold Rome, third one – Paris, 4 – Milan, 5
– Lissabon Not Poland and not Germany though.
Meanwhile rumours abound about "New Europeans" (mostly – from the Baltic states)
illegally transporting Ukrainians to Ireland and Britain to work as literally slaves there.
Also there was a general noise about the increase of the Ukrainian gasterbaiters in
Poland.
The idea that Germany should pay is not a new one. PiS just tries to make Poland enter the
elite club of the "suffering nations", browbeat the entire world into accepting their own
unique "tragic history" and then beg for monies. Their mistake is twofold. First – they
disperse their energy and attention at many "tragedies" at once. Look at Israel and the
Ukraine! They get this martyrology business model right – focus on one event
(Shoah/Holodomor) and proclaim it as unique and reparations worthy.
And what the PiS does? Kaczynski has suggested to have a monthly anniversary of the
Smolensk crash to be hosted in April 2018; for a grand total of 96 months (the number of
victims). He also expressed a hopeful notion that "we will learn the truth by then" (aka
"Tusk/KGB did it!").
Each progressive monthly anniversary costs more to field and takes more policemen to act
as security. It is siad, that the previous monthlyversary required 2000 policemen for about
2.5 thousand people and about 500 people from the countermanifestation. First
monthlyversaries only had 50 or so policemen standing guard.
"... the ultimate driving force behind today's international news is the aristocracy that the MIC represents, the billionaires behind the MIC, because theirs is the collective will that drives the MIC ..."
"... The MIC is their collective arm, and their collective fist. It is not the American public's global enforcer; it is the American aristocracy's fist, around the world. ..."
"... The MIC (via its military contractors such as Lockheed Martin) also constitutes a core part of the U.S. aristocracy's wealth (the part that's extracted from the U.S. taxpaying public via the U.S. government), and also (by means of those privately-owned contractors, plus the taxpayer-funded U.S. armed forces) it protects these aristocrats' wealth in foreign countries. Though paid by the U.S. government, the MIC does the protection-and-enforcement jobs for the nation's super-rich. ..."
"... So, the MIC is the global bully's fist, and the global bully is the U.S. aristocracy -- America's billionaires, most especially the controlling stockholders in the U.S.-based international corporations. These are the people the U.S. government actually represents . The links document this, and it's essential to know, if one is to understand current events. ..."
"... This massacre didn't play well on local Crimean television. Immediately, a movement to secede and to again become a part of Russia started, and spread like wildfire in Crimea. (Crimea had been only involuntarily transferred from Russia to Ukraine by the Soviet dictator Khrushchev in 1954; it had been part of Russia for the hundreds of years prior to 1954. It was culturally Russian.) Russia's President, Vladimir Putin, said that if they'd vote for it in a referendum, then Russia would accept them back into the Russian Federation and provide them protection as Russian citizens. ..."
"... The latest round of these sanctions was imposed not by Executive Order from a U.S. President, but instead by a new U.S. law, "H.R.3364 -- Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act" , which in July 2017 was passed by 98-2 in the Senate and 419-3 in the House , and which not only stated outright lies (endorsed there by virtually everyone in Congress), but which was backed up by lies from the U.S. Intelligence Community that were accepted and endorsed totally uncritically by 98 Senators and 419 Representatives . (One might simply assume that all of those Senators and Representatives were ignorant of the way things work and were not intentionally lying in order to vote for these lies from the Intelligence Community, but these people actually wouldn't have wrangled their ways into Congress and gotten this far at the game if they hadn't already known that the U.S. Intelligence Community is designed not only to inform the President but to help him to deceive the public and therefore can't be trusted by anyone but the President . ..."
"... Good summary of where we're at, but please don't call the ruling goons aristocrats. The word, "aristocrat," is derived from the Ancient Greek ἄριστος (áristos, "best"), and the ruling thugs in this country have never been the best at anything except lies, murder and theft ..."
"... I realize that calling them violent bloodthirsty sociopathic parasites is a mouthful, and that "plutacrats" doesn't have quite the appropriate sting, but perhaps it's more accurate. ..."
"... They also -- through the joint action of Rating Agencies, the Anglosaxon media, the vassal vassal states' media, make national debt's yield spreads skyrocket. It's been the way to make entire governments tumble in Europe, as well as force ministers for economics to resign. After obeisance has been restored -- and an "ex Goldman Sachs man" put on the presidential/ministerial chair, usually -- investors magically find back their trust in the nation's economic stability, and yield spreads return to their usual level. ..."
"... First, he delineates the American Elites well. The USA forged by Abe Lincoln is not a real democracy, not a real republic. It is the worst kind of oligarchy: one based on love of money almost exclusively (because if a man does not love money well enough to be bribed, then he cannot be trusted by plutocrats) while proclaiming itself focused on helping all the little guys of the world overcome the power of the rich oppressors. ..."
The tumultuous events that dominate international news today cannot be accurately
understood outside of their underlying context, which connects them together,
into a broader narrative -- the actual history of our time . History
makes sense, even if news-reports about these events don't. Propagandistic motivations
cause such essential facts to be reported little (if at all) in the news, so
that the most important matters for the public to know, get left out of news-accounts
about those international events.
The purpose here will be to provide that context, for our time.
First, this essential background will be summarized; then, it will be documented
(via the links that will be provided here), up till the present moment -- the
current news: America's aristocracy
controls both the U.S.
federal government and
press , but (as will be documented later here) is facing increasing resistance
from its many vassal (subordinate) aristocracies around the world (popularly
called "America's allied nations"); and this growing international resistance
presents a new challenge to the U.S. military-industrial complex (MIC), which
is controlled by that same aristocracy and enforces their will worldwide. The
MIC is responding to the demands of its aristocratic master. This response largely
drives international events today (which countries get invaded, which ones get
overthrown by coups, etc.), but the ultimate driving force behind today's
international news is the aristocracy that the MIC represents, the billionaires
behind the MIC, because theirs is the collective will that drives the MIC.
The MIC is their collective arm, and their collective fist. It is not the
American public's global enforcer; it is the American aristocracy's fist, around
the world.
The MIC (via its military contractors such as Lockheed Martin) also constitutes
a core part of the U.S. aristocracy's wealth (the part that's extracted from
the U.S. taxpaying public via the U.S. government), and also (by means of those
privately-owned contractors, plus the taxpayer-funded U.S. armed forces) it
protects these aristocrats' wealth in foreign countries. Though paid by the
U.S. government, the MIC does the protection-and-enforcement jobs for the nation's
super-rich.
Furthermore, the MIC is crucial to them in other ways, serving not only directly
as their "policeman to the world," but also indirectly (by that means)
as a global protection-racket that keeps their many subordinate aristocracies
in line, under their control -- and that threatens those foreign aristocrats
with encroachments against their own territory, whenever a vassal aristocracy
resists the master-aristocracy's will. (International law is never enforced
against the U.S., not even after it invaded Iraq in 2003.) So, the MIC is
the global bully's fist, and the global bully is the U.S. aristocracy -- America's
billionaires, most especially the controlling stockholders in the U.S.-based
international corporations. These are the people the U.S. government
actually represents .
The links document this, and it's essential to know, if one is to understand
current events.
For the first time ever, a global trend is emerging toward declining control
of the world by America's billionaire-class -- into the direction of ultimately
replacing the U.S. Empire, by increasingly independent trading-blocs: alliances
between aristocracies, replacing this hierarchical control of one aristocracy
over another. Ours is becoming a multi-polar world, and America's aristocracy
is struggling mightily against this trend, desperate to continue remaining
the one global imperial power -- or, as U.S. President Barack Obama often
referred to the U.S. government,
"The United States is and remains the one indispensable nation. That has
been true for the century passed and it will be true for the century to come."
To America's aristocrats, all other nations than the U.S. are "dispensable."
All American allies have to accept it. This is the imperial mindset, both for
the master, and for the vassal. The uni-polar world can't function otherwise.
Vassals must pay (extract from their nation's public, and then transfer) protection-money,
to the master, in order to be safe -- to retain their existing power, to exploit
their given nation's public.
The recently growing role of economic sanctions (more accurately called
"Weaponization of finance" ) by the United States and its vassals, has been
central to the operation of this hierarchical imperial system, but is now being
increasingly challenged from below, by some of the vassals. Alliances are breaking
up over America's mounting use of sanctions, and new alliances are being formed
and cemented to replace the imperial system -- replace it by a system without
any clear center of global power, in the world that we're moving into.
Economic sanctions have been the U.S. empire's chief weapon to impose its will
against any challengers to U.S. global control, and are thus becoming the chief
locus of the old order's fractures .
This global order cannot be maintained by the MIC alone; the more that the
MIC fails (such as in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, ), the more that economic
sanctions rise to become the essential tool of the imperial masters. We are
increasingly in the era of economic sanctions. And, now, we're entering the
backlash-phase of it.
This massacre didn't play well on local Crimean television. Immediately,
a movement to secede and to again become a part of Russia started, and spread
like wildfire in Crimea. (Crimea had been only involuntarily transferred from
Russia to Ukraine by the Soviet dictator Khrushchev in 1954; it had been part
of Russia for the hundreds of years prior to 1954. It was culturally Russian.)
Russia's President, Vladimir Putin, said that if they'd vote for it in a referendum,
then Russia would accept them back into the Russian Federation and provide them
protection as Russian citizens.
On 6 March 2014, U.S. President Obama issued
"Executive Order -- Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the
Situation in Ukraine" , and ignored the internationally recognized-in-law
right of self-determination of peoples (though he recognized that right in Catalonia
and in Scotland), and he instead simply declared that Ukraine's "sovereignty"
over Crimea was sacrosanct (even though it had been imposed upon Crimeans
by the Soviet dictator -- America's enemy -- in 1954, during the Soviet
era, when America opposed, instead of favored and imposed, dictatorship around
the world, except in Iran and Guatemala, where America imposed dictatorships
even that early). Obama's Executive Order was against unnamed "persons who have
asserted governmental authority in the Crimean region without the authorization
of the Government of Ukraine." He insisted that the people who had just grabbed
control of Ukraine and massacred Crimeans (his own Administration's paid far-right
Ukrainian thugs, who were
racist anti-Russians ), must be allowed to rule Crimea, regardless of what
Crimeans (traditionally a part of Russia) might -- and did -- want. America's
vassal aristocracies then
imposed their own sanctions against Russia when on 16 March 2014 Crimeans voted
overwhelmingly to rejoin the Russian Federation . Thus started the successive
rounds of economic sanctions against Russia, by the U.S. government
and its vassal-nations . (As is shown by that link, they knew that this
had been a coup and no authentic 'democratic revolution' such as the Western
press was portraying it to have been, and yet they kept quiet about it -- a
secret their public would not be allowed to know.)
It's basic knowledge about the U.S. government, and they know it, though
the public don't.) The great independent columnist Paul Craig Roberts headlined
on August 1st,
"Trump's Choices" and argued that President Donald Trump should veto the
bill despite its overwhelming support in Washington, but instead Trump signed
it into law on August 2nd and thus joined participation in the overt stage --
the Obama stage -- of the U.S. government's continuation of the Cold War that
U.S. President George Herbert Walker Bush had
secretly instituted against Russia on 24 February 1990 , and that, under
Obama, finally escalated into a hot war against Russia. The first phase of this
hot war against Russia is via the
"Weaponization of finance" (those sanctions). However, as usual, it's also
backed up by
major increases in physical weaponry , and by
the cooperation of America's vassals in order to surround Russia with nuclear
weapons near and on Russia's borders , in preparation for a possible
blitz first-strike nuclear attack upon Russia -- preparations that the Russian
people know about and greatly fear, but which are largely hidden by the Western
press, and therefore only very few Westerners are aware that their own governments
have become lying aggressors.
Some excellent news-commentaries have been published about this matter, online,
by a few 'alternative news' sites (and that 'alt-news' group includes all of
the reliably honest news-sites, but also includes unfortunately many sites that
are as dishonest as the mainstream ones are -- and that latter type aren't being
referred to here), such as (and only the best sites and articles will be linked-to
on this):
All three of those articles discuss how these new sanctions are driving other
nations to separate themselves, more and more, away from the economic grip of
the U.S. aristocracy, and to form instead their own alliances with one-another,
so as to defend themselves, collectively, from U.S. economic (if not also military)
aggression. Major recent news-developments on this, have included (all here
from rt dot com):
"'US, EU meddle in other countries & kill people under guise of human rights
concerns' – Duterte", and presented Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte explaining
why he rejects the U.S. aristocracy's hypocritical pronouncements and condemnations
regarding its vassals among the world's poorer and struggling nations, such
as his. Of course, none of this information is publishable in the West -- in
the Western 'democracies'. It's 'fake news', as far as The Empire is concerned.
So, if you're in The (now declining) Empire, you're not supposed to be reading
this. That's why the mainstream 'news'media (to all of which this article is
being submitted for publication, without fee, for any of them that want to break
their existing corrupt mold) don't publish
this sort of news -- 'fake news' (that's of the solidly documented type,
such as this). You'll see such news reported only in the few honest newsmedia.
The rule for the aristocracy's 'news'media is: report what happened, only on
the basis of the government's lies as to why it happened -- never
expose such lies (the official lies). What's official is
'true' . That, too, is an essential part of the imperial system.
The front cover of the American aristocracy's TIME magazine's Asian
edition, dated September 25, 2016, had been headlined
"Night Falls on the Philippines: The tragic cost of President Duterte's war
on drugs" . The 'news'-story, which was featured inside not just the Asian
but all editions, was
"Inside Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte's War On Drugs" , and it portrayed
Duterte as a far-right demagogue who was giving his nation's police free reign
to murder anyone they wished to, especially the poor. On 17 July 2017, China's
Xinhua News Agency bannered
"Philippines' Duterte enjoys high approval rating at 82 percent: poll" ,
and reported: "A survey by Pulse Asia Inc. conducted from June 24 to June 29
showed that 82 percent of the 1,200 people surveyed nationwide approved the
way Duterte runs the country. Out of all the respondents, the poll said 13 percent
were undecided about Duterte's performance, while 5 percent disapproved Duterte's
performance. Duterte, who assumed the presidency in June last year, ends his
single, six-year term in 2022." Obviously, it's not likely that the TIME
cover story had actually been honest. But, of course, America's billionaires
are even more eager to overthrow Russia's President, Putin.
Western polling firms can freely poll Russians, and
do poll them on lots but not on approval or disapproval of President Putin
, because he always scores above 80%, and America's aristocrats also don't like
finding that confirmed, and certainly don't want to report it. Polling is routinely
done in Russia, by Russian pollsters, on voters' ratings of approval/disapproval
of Putin's performance. Because America's aristocrats don't like the findings,
they say that Russians are in such fear of Putin they don't tell the truth about
this, or else that Russia's newsmedia constantly lie about him to cover up the
ugly reality about him.
However, the Western academic journal Post-Soviet Affairs (which is
a mainstream Western publication) included in their January/February 2017 issue
a study,
"Is Putin's Popularity Real?" and the investigators reported the results
of their own poll of Russians, which was designed to tap into whether such fear
exists and serves as a distorting factor in those Russian polls, but concluded
that the findings in Russia's polls could not be explained by any such factor;
and that, yes, Putin's popularity among Russians is real. The article's closing
words were: "Our results suggest that the main obstacle at present to the emergence
of a widespread opposition movement to Putin is not that Russians are afraid
to voice their disapproval of Putin, but that Putin is in fact quite popular."
The U.S. aristocracy's efforts to get resistant heads-of-state overthrown
by 'democratic revolutions' (which usually is done by the U.S. government to
overthrow democratically elected Presidents -- such as Mossadegh, Arbenz, Allende,
Zelaya, Yanukovych, and attempted against Assad, and wished against Putin, and
against Duterte -- not overthrowing dictators such as the U.S. government always
claims) have almost consistently failed, and therefore coups and invasions have
been used instead, but those techniques demand that certain realities be suppressed
by their 'news'media in order to get the U.S. public to support what the government
has done -- the U.S. government's international crime, which is never prosecuted.
Lying 'news' media in order to 'earn' the American public's support, does not
produce enthusiastic support, but, at best, over the long term, it produces
only tepid support (support that's usually below the level of that of the governments
the U.S. overthrows). U.S. Presidents never score above 80% except when they
order an invasion in response to a violent attack by foreigners, such as happened
when George W. Bush attacked Afghanistan and Iraq in the wake of 9/11, but those
80%+ approval ratings fade quickly; and,
after the 1960s, U.S. Presidential job-approvals have generally been below 60%
.
President Trump's ratings are currently around 40%. Although Trump is not
as conservative -- not as far-right -- as the U.S. aristocracy wants him to
be, he is fascist ; just
not enough to satisfy them (and their oppostion isn't because he's unpopular
among the public; it's more the case that he's unpopular largely because their
'news'media concentrate on his bads, and distort his goods to appear bad --
e.g., suggesting that he's not sufficiently aggressive against Russia). His
fascism on domestic affairs is honestly reported in the aristocracy's 'news'media,
which appear to be doing all they can to get him replaced by his Vice President,
Mike Pence. What's not reported by their media is the fascism of the U.S. aristocracy
itself, and of their international agenda (global conquest). That's their secret,
of which their public must be (and is) constantly kept ignorant. America's aristocracy
has almost as much trouble contolling its domestic public as it has controlling
its foreign vassals. Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most
recently, of
They're Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of
CHRIST'S VENTRILOQUISTS:
The Event that Created Christianity .
Fascism is defined as a system that combines private monopolies and despotic
government power. It is sometimes racist but not necessarily so. By the
correct definition, every President since at least Herbert Hoover has been
fascist to some degree.
One bit of silver lining in the deep-state propaganda effort to destabilise
the Trump regime is the damage to the legitimacy of the yankee imperium
it confers, making it easier for vassal states to begin to jump ship. The
claims of extraterritorial power used for economic warfare might confer
a similar benefit, since the erstwhile allies will want to escape the dominance
of the yankee dollar to be able to escape the economic extortion practised
by the yankee regime to achieve its control abroad.
" America's aristocracy has almost as much trouble controlling its domestic
public as it has controlling its foreign vassals. "
These foreign vassals had a cozy existence as long as the USA made it
clear it wanted to control the world. Dutch minister of Foreign Affairs
Ben Bot made this quite clear whan the Netherlands did not have a USA ambassador
for three months or so, Ben Bot complained to the USA that there should
be a USA ambassador.
He was not used to take decisions all by himself.
Right now Europe's queen Merkel has the same problem, unlike Obama Trump
does not hold her hand.
Yes, of course. I don't know about before Herbert Hoover, but certainly
during the 50s, business -- monopolistic or oligopolistic (like the old
Detroit auto industry) -- and government (including the MIC) were closely
integrated. Such was, indeed, as aspect of progressivism. It was considered
by most to be a good thing, or at least to be the natural and normal state
of affairs. Certainly, the system back then included what amounted to price-fixing
as a normal business practice.
On the other hand, the "despotic" thing is less clear. Some assert that
since FDR was effectively a dictator during World War II, that therefore
the Democratic Party represented despotism ever since FDR (or maybe ever
since Wilson).
Having lived through that period of time, I have to say that I am not
so sure about that: if it was despotism, it was a heavily democratic and
beneficent despotism. However, it is evident that there was a fascist skein
running through the entirety of USA's political history throughout the 20th
Century.
Fascism originates from Mussolini's Italy. It was anti socialist and
anti communist, it of course was pro Italian, Italy's great deeds in antiquity,
the Roman empire, were celebrated.
One can see this as racist, but as Italy consisted of mostly Italians,
it was not racist in the present meaning of the word at all. Italy was very
hesitant in persecuting jews, for example. Hitler depised Mussolini, Mussolini
was an ally that weakened Germany. Hitler and Mussolini agreed in their
hatred of communism.
Calling Hitler a fascist just creates confusion. All discussions of what
nowadays fascism is, our could mean, end like rivers in the desert.
'Aristocracy' and 'fascist' are all weasel words. (I'm the only true
fascist btw, and it's National Humanism, National Left, or Left-Right.)
US is an ethnogarchy, and that really matters. The Power rules, but the
nature of the Power is shaped by the biases of the ruling ethnic group.
It is essentially ruled by Jewish Supremacists.
Now, if not for Jews, another group might have supreme power, and it
might be problematic in its own way. BUT, the agenda would be different.
Suppose Chinese-Americans controlled much of media, finance, academia,
deep state, and etc. They might be just as corrupt or more so than Jews,
BUT their agenda would be different. They would not be hateful to Iran,
Russia, Syria, or to Palestinians. And they won't care about Israel.
They would have their own biases and agendas, but they would still be
different from Jewish obsessions.
Or suppose the top elites of the US were Poles. Now, US policy may be
very anti-Russian BUT for reasons different from those of Jews.
So, we won't learn much by just throwing words like 'fascist' or 'aristocrat'
around.
We have to be more specific. Hitler was 'fascist' and so was Rohm. But
Hitler had Rohm wiped out.
Surely, a Zionist 'fascist' had different goals than an Iranian 'fascist'.
One might say the Old South African regime was 'fascist'. Well, today's
piggish ANC is also 'fascist', if by 'fascist' we mean power-hungry tyrants.
But black 'fascists' want something different from what white 'fascists'
wanted.
It's like all football players are in football. But to understand what
is going on, we have to know WHICH team they play for.
Jewish Elites don't just play for power. They play for Jewish power.
Good summary of where we're at, but please don't call the ruling
goons aristocrats. The word, "aristocrat," is derived from the Ancient Greek
ἄριστος (áristos, "best"), and the ruling thugs in this country have never
been the best at anything except lies, murder and theft.
I realize that calling them violent bloodthirsty sociopathic parasites
is a mouthful, and that "plutacrats" doesn't have quite the appropriate
sting, but perhaps it's more accurate.
Or maybe we should get into the habit of calling them the "ruling mafiosi."
I'm open to suggestions.
and that threatens those foreign aristocrats with encroachments
against their own territory, whenever a vassal aristocracy resists the
master-aristocracy's will.
They also -- through the joint action of Rating Agencies, the Anglosaxon
media, the vassal vassal states' media, make national debt's yield spreads
skyrocket. It's been the way to make entire governments tumble in Europe,
as well as force ministers for economics to resign. After obeisance has
been restored -- and an "ex Goldman Sachs man" put on the presidential/ministerial
chair, usually -- investors magically find back their trust in the nation's
economic stability, and yield spreads return to their usual level.
No doubt about it. That's how thugs rule; there are plenty of quivering
sell outs to do the rulers' bidding. Look at the sickening standing ovations
given to Netanyahoo by supposed "US" congresscreeps.
@Fidelios Automata Abraham Lincoln's economic policy was to combine
private monopolies with the Federal Government under a President like him:
one who ordered the arrests of newspaper editors/publishers who opposed
his policies and more 'despotic' goodies.
While the article favorably informs, and was written so as to engage
the reader, it lacks reasonable solutions to its problems presented. One
solution which I never read or hear about, is mandated MRI's, advanced technology,
and evidence supported psychological testing of sitting and potential political
candidates. The goal would be to publicly reveal traits of psychopathy,
narcissism, insanity, etc. Of course, the most vocal opposition would come
from those who intend to hide these traits. The greatest evidence for the
likelyhood of this process working, is the immense effort those who would
be revealed have historically put into hiding what they are.
Eric Zuesse is a nasty, hardcore leftist in the senses that matter most.
Often, he reveals his Leftism to be based on his hatred of Christianity
and his utter contempt for white Christians. But there is that dead clock
being correct twice per day matter. In this article, Zuesse gets a good
deal right.
First, he delineates the American Elites well. The USA forged by
Abe Lincoln is not a real democracy, not a real republic. It is the worst
kind of oligarchy: one based on love of money almost exclusively (because
if a man does not love money well enough to be bribed, then he cannot be
trusted by plutocrats) while proclaiming itself focused on helping all the
little guys of the world overcome the power of the rich oppressors.
It is the Devil's game nearly perfected by the grand alliance of
WASPs and Jews, with their Saudi hangers-on.
Second, it is fair to label America's Deep State fascist , Elite
Fascist. And we should never forget that while Jews are no more than 3%
of the American population, they now are at least 30% (my guess would be
closer to 59%) of the most powerful Deep Staters. That means that per capita
Jews easily are the fascist-inclined people in America.
The most guilty often bray the loudest at others in hope of getting them
blamed and escaping punishment. And this most guilty group – Deep State
Elites evolved from the original WASP-Jewish alliance against Catholics
– is dead-set on making the majority of whites in the world serfs.
Third, the US 'weaponization of finance' seems to have been used against
the Vatican to force Benedict XVI to resign so that Liberal Jesuit (sorry
for the redundancy) Jorge Bergolgio could be made Pope. The Jesuits are
far and away the most Leftist and gay part of the Catholic Church, and the
American Deep State wanted a gay-loving, strongly pro-Jewish, strongly pro-Moslem
'immigrant' as Pope.
Fourth, that America's Leftists of every stripe, America's Neocons, and
America's 'compassionate conservatives' all hate Putin is all you should
need to know that Putin is far, far better for Russia's working class, Russia's
non-Elites, than our Elites are for us.
Charlottesville, Occupy Wall St And The Neoliberal Police State. Charlottesville
was a Neoliberal ambush designed to crush the Alt Right once and for all.
This story must be told.
No way. How about Jewish terrorists ? Very few Italians in the ruling
"aristocracy." Lots of Jews.
Very few Italians in the ruling "aristocracy."
Another common misconception is to associate the mafia with Italians
mostly. The Italian mafiosi are pikers compared to the American ones of
Eastern European descent. The real bosses are not the Italians.
Bugsy Siegel, Louis "Lepke" Buchalter, Longy Zwillman, Moe Dalitz, Meyer
Lansky and many many others.
Even the Jewish Virtual Library admits to some of it.
There's nothing wrong with a policy which says sovereign decisions are a matter for the country's
people to decide but to offer a helping hand to encourage 'good behaviours' which are likely to
result in a minimum of disruption and possibly danger to a nation's neighbours. And here is where
the slippery slope comes in. Devotees of American exceptionalism argue – often with good conscience
– that this is all Washington is doing; trying to help ease the transition to a market economy,
or whatever, pick your meme. It is difficult to prove that the aim is really to make a transition
to corporate governance and enable exploitation for wealthy American conglomerates, and a lot
of people on both sides get to throw the 'conspiracy theorist' term around.
There
is an abundance of outrage in the United States about Russia's
alleged
meddling
in the 2016 presidential election. Multiple investigations are taking place, and
Moscow's conduct was a major justification for the sanctions legislation that Congress just
passed. Some furious
political
figures
and members of the media insist that the Putin government's interference constitutes an act of
war. One especially agitated House member even compared it explicitly to the
Pearl Harbor and 9/11 attacks
.
Such umbrage might be more credible if the United States refrained from engaging in similar
conduct. But the historical record shows that Washington has meddled in the political affairs
of
dozens
of countries
!including many democracies. An egregious example occurred in
Ukraine
during the Euromaidan Revolution of 2014.
Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych was not an admirable character. After his election in
2010, he used patronage and other instruments of state power in a flagrant fashion to the
advantage of his political party. That high-handed behavior and legendary corruption alienated
large portions of Ukraine's population. As the Ukrainian economy languished and fell farther
and farther behind those of Poland and other East European neighbors that had implemented
significant market-oriented reforms, public anger at Yanukovych mounted. When he rejected the
European Union's terms for an association agreement in late 2013, in favor of a Russian offer,
angry demonstrators filled Kiev's Independence Square, known as the Maidan, as well as sites in
other cities.
Despite his leadership defects and character flaws, Yanukovych had been duly elected in
balloting that international observers considered
reasonably free and fair
!about the best standard one can hope for outside the mature
Western democracies. A decent respect for democratic institutions and procedures meant that he
ought to be able to serve out his lawful term as president, which would end in 2016.
Neither the domestic opposition nor Washington and its European Union allies behaved in that
fashion. Instead, Western leaders made it clear that they supported the efforts of
demonstrators to force Yanukovych to reverse course and approve the EU agreement or, if he
would not do so, to remove the president before his term expired. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), the
ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, went to Kiev to
show solidarity
with the Euromaidan activists. McCain dined with opposition leaders,
including members of the ultra right-wing
Svoboda
Party
, and later appeared on stage in Maidan Square during a mass rally. He stood shoulder
to shoulder with Svoboda leader Oleg Tyagnibok.
But McCain's actions were a model of diplomatic restraint compared to the conduct of
Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs. As
Ukraine's political crisis deepened, Nuland and her subordinates became more brazen in favoring
the anti-Yanukovych demonstrators. Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on
December 13, 2013, that she had traveled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the
start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5,
she handed out cookies
to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.
The extent of the Obama administration's meddling in Ukraine's politics was breathtaking.
Russian intelligence intercepted and leaked to the international media a Nuland
telephone call
in which she
and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffey Pyatt discussed in detail their preferences for specific
personnel in a post-Yanukovych government. The U.S-favored candidates included Arseniy
Yatsenyuk, the man who became prime minister once Yanukovych was ousted from power. During the
telephone call, Nuland stated enthusiastically that "Yats is the guy" who would do the best
job.
Nuland and Pyatt were engaged in such planning at a time when Yanukovych was still Ukraine's
lawful president. It was startling to have diplomatic representatives of a foreign country!and
a country that routinely touts the need to respect democratic processes and the sovereignty of
other nations!to be scheming about removing an elected government and replacing it with
officials meriting U.S. approval.
Washington's conduct not only constituted meddling, it
bordered on micromanagement. At one point, Pyatt mentioned the complex dynamic among the three
principal opposition leaders, Yatsenyuk, Oleh Tyahnybok, and Vitali Klitschko. Both Pyatt and
Nuland wanted to keep Tyahnybok and Klitschko out of an interim government. In the former case,
they worried about his extremist ties; in the latter, they seemed to want him to wait and make
a bid for office on a longer-term basis. Nuland stated that "I don't think Klitsch should go
into the government. I don't think it's necessary." She added that what Yatseniuk needed "is
Klitsch and Tyanhybok on the outside."
The two diplomats also were prepared to escalate the already extensive U.S. involvement in
Ukraine's
political
turbulence
. Pyatt stated bluntly that "we want to try to get somebody with an
international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing [the political
transition]." Nuland clearly had Vice President Joe Biden in mind for that role. Noting that
the vice president's national security adviser was in direct contact with her, Nuland related
that she told him "probably tomorrow for an atta-boy and to get the details to stick. So
Biden's willing." Both the Obama administration and most of the American news media portrayed
the Euromaidan Revolution as a spontaneous, popular uprising against a corrupt and brutal
government.
A February 24, 2014,
Washington Post
editorial
celebrated the Maidan demonstrators and their successful campaign to overthrow
Yanukovych. The "moves were democratic," the
Washington Post
concluded, and "Kiev is
now controlled by pro-Western parties."
It was a grotesque distortion to portray the events in Ukraine as a purely indigenous,
popular uprising. The Nuland-Pyatt telephone conversation and other actions confirm that the
United States was considerably more than a passive observer to the turbulence. Instead, U.S.
officials were blatantly meddling in Ukraine. Such conduct was utterly improper. The United
States had no right to try to orchestrate political outcomes in another country!especially one
on the border of another great power. It is no wonder that Russia reacted badly to the
unconstitutional ouster of an elected, pro-Russian government!an ouster that occurred not only
with Washington's blessing, but apparently with its assistance.
That episode, as well as earlier ones involving Italy, France and other democratic
countries, should be kept in mind the next time U.S. political leaders or the media publicly
fume about Russia's apparent interference in America's 2016 elections. One can legitimately
condemn some aspects of Moscow's behavior, but the force of America's moral outrage is vitiated
by the stench of U.S. hypocrisy.
Ted Galen Carpenter, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and a contributing editor
at the National Interest, is the author of ten books, the contributing editor of ten books, and
the author of more than 650 articles on international affairs.
yeah, when americans do it (not JUST it but organizing an outright coup) - it's for
democracy...
but when the losing party in american elections had to explain why it had failed
used a ghost of russian hackers (instead of recognizing that their identity politics
completely alienated the majority of real good americans - white people) - it's an attack on
democracy
hey, democratic party! how 'bout letting your servers to be finally examined by fbi?
American's are GOD's chosen people...!!! it's all right there in the Bible...!!! When
America does it - it is all with HIS blessing... when others do it (particularly Russia) they
are acting in concert with Satan...!
In all seriousness... every empire acts in it's own interests. What makes America so God
awful insufferable is it's self righteousness... Surely Washington doesn't believe it's own
bulls---... or does it...??? That truly is a scary thought.
The British never tried convince anyone they were doing the Lord's work. They spared their
subjects self righteous lectures (for the most part)
A Saudi prince said it best: America is arrogance unbounded
The author fails to mention that Yanukovich even agreed to early elections in exchange for
calling off security forces in order to defuse tensions. In return, armed gangs occupied
Parliament buildings, forced him to flee the country, and organized a hasty vote to remove
him from office. Is it any wonder that the ethnic Russians got the message that their vote
didn't count anymore? We immediately recognized the new govt by denying that this was a
coup.
Ukraine would have been much more stable had their been elections instead of a coup
d'etat.
"... I don't care about Russians or Ukrainians, but this is a strange law without any value however "no part of the country can decide it's parting without the voting of the whole country". So if I command an independence movement and we gain freedom by armed fighting, under Ukranien law we will still not be free even if there is no chance for state to recover what he lost. So I need to wait until Ukrainian Parliament vote. Is like saying US is not free from UK despite beating the British, because UK Parliament never voted to give independence to US. ..."
"... According to Soviet laws any republic that is leaving USSR must hold referendum in its autonomous regions if they quit USSR or quit this republic. Not only Ukraine failed to hold it, when Crimeans started preparation Ukraine violently squashed them. That started illegal Ukrainian occupation of Crimea 1992-2014. ..."
"... If you research the US/UK techniques used during the 1953 Iranian coup, you'll see that the 2013-14 Ukrainian coup was very close to being an exact duplicate. ..."
Willem Post:: "Crimea already was an independent state within Ukraine"
haha! One more moron arrived! What a crap!
Crimea wasn't independent, it was an autonomy within Ukraine. Crimea's annexation was prepared by Putin since 2004, i.e. 10 years earlier before it happened in real! And this is told to the world not by
Ukrainians, but the Putin's former adviser Andrey Illarionov.
The day the coup took over Kiev and abolished the Ukrainian Constitution, Crimea became
independent. And voted for independence. Crimea wanting to be part of Russia since 1991.
Crimea was giving to Ukraine under the USSR illegally, there is no VOTE under the DUMA that
voted Crimea to be part of Ukraine. The fall of the USSR, Crimea people wanted to be Russian.
And they voted this in 1991 and again in 1994. V. Putin wasnt in office until 1999. Crimea
today is far better under Russia, because nearly 25 years under Ukraine it was neglected.
Crimea is Russia...move. Ukraine ought to stop bombing Donbass or they'll be independent from
Ukraine as well.
I don't care about Russians or Ukrainians, but this is a strange law without any value
however "no part of the country can decide it's parting without the voting of the whole
country". So if I command an independence movement and we gain freedom by armed fighting,
under Ukranien law we will still not be free even if there is no chance for state to recover
what he lost. So I need to wait until Ukrainian Parliament vote. Is like saying US is not free
from UK despite beating the British, because UK Parliament never voted to give independence
to US.
"no part of the country can decide it's parting without the voting of the whole
country"
When Yugoslavia was dismantled under US encouragement and with little consequence, if any,
to the civil wars that would follow, such laws as the above ceased to exist.
It did the same in Ukraine. A coup d'etat using banderite thugs for the final coup de
grace. Did Nuland or McCain or anyone else in Washington care if it led to a bloody aftermath
that frankly, any schoolboy could have predicted? They cared about their agenda, period and
d@mn the consequences.
According to Soviet laws any republic that is leaving USSR must hold referendum in its
autonomous regions if they quit USSR or quit this republic. Not only Ukraine failed to hold
it, when Crimeans started preparation Ukraine violently squashed them. That started illegal
Ukrainian occupation of Crimea 1992-2014.
The Khasavyurt Accord granted vast amount of independence to Chechen Republic back in
1996. But infact Chenchnya broke apart into regions held by local clan warlords, who were
making money on contraband, crudely refining petroleum into gasoline, kidnapping people for
ransom from neighboring Russian regions. The republic has also become a hotbed of religious
extremism that culmitated in Shamil Basaev's invasion into Dagestan region.
Do some research before mentioning things, because these two cases are hardly
compatible.
Yep, the Saudis enthusiastically sought to turn Chechnya into what they've managed to turn
Syria into today, with more than a little help from its 'friends'.
Tell me what happened to the Ukrainian referendum that decided to oust the old president
by force instead of waiting a few months to vote him out or at the least, impeach him
constitutionally. Hmmm? Cat got your tongue now? Thought so.
Chechen had a referendum, and it was successful. Not only Chechnya has more autonomy
power, but they have a elected office to represent Chechnya in Moscow. Today, Chechnya has
been peaceful with Gronzy growing. Not to mention, many Chechen soldiers are fighting side by
side with the Russian government in Syria.
I've always wondered why the US seems always to rush to uphold the edicts of previous
Soviet rulers as sacrosanct. Stalin with S. Ossetia and Krushchev with Crimea.
I've also always wondered why all of the nations of Eastern Europe, sans Poland, that the
US seems to favor are those who were enthusiastic collaborators and co-combatants with
Hitler's troops in WWII. Croatia, Bosnia, Albania, the Baltic States and now Ukraine.
The Arioch: "According to Soviet laws..."
What a crap!
Ukraine as well as Russia and Belarus founded the USSR!
And all the three listed above discontinued it.
As for soviet laws...Just well known thing: Hitler came to power absolutely legally and
what he ended up with?
Once more: USSR was founded under machine guns (the same with Crimea so-called
referendum)
"USSR was founded under machine guns (the same with Crimea so-called referendum)"
This is refreshing. The USSR was indeed founded by un-godly terrorists ..... I mean what
country can claim legitimacy unless founded peacefully on rule of law.
Now that this is clear I expect the USA to return the thirteen colonies to Britain as at
the earliest possible convenience and we can begin discussion reparations.
They could be among ones who founded it. But they were not only members of it. There was
legal and illegal way to exit USSR. Ukraine, Russia and Belarus chosen illegal way. For Kiev
it was a tool to press illegal occupation over Sevastopole and Crimea. Which lasted more long
that it was needed, but ended in 2014.
And you are correct about Hitler. When finally breaking out of that Lenin built jail of
nations called Ukraine, Crimeans were to give Poroshenko's laws about as much respect as
Hitler's laws were worth.
The Arioch: "Lenin built jail of nations called Ukraine" What a crap again! Lenin built jail of nations called USSR, that's right! "Crimeans were to give Poroshenko's laws about as much respect as Hitler's laws were
worth."
You're just a moron!
Poroshenko became an Ukrainian president after Russia annexed Crimea
By stating this you're implying Soviets usurped the power. This is not true. To begin
with, Soviets, or Councils were trade unions and they formed themselves as an alternative to
czarist ruling institutions during WW1 and February and October Revolutions. They were
grassroots all right. Both Soviets and Bolsheviks enjoyed high appeal among regular people
because they offered solutions to very tough questions regarding land ownership (taking it
from aristocrats) and large business (taking it from oligarchs into collective
ownership).
Eventually the Red Army managed to defeat 17 armies during the Civil War. That wouldn't
have been possible without wide support among the people. Sure there was the Red Terror
unleashed after several assasination attempts on Soviet leadership. But frankly, as tragic as
it is, tough times demand tough measures.
So, if you don't recognize Soviet laws, then you don't recognize Soviet edicts and you
cannot legitimately recognize Krushchev's edict handing Crimea to Ukraine's jurisdiction,
which btw..his son has explained that it was just a simple transfer to Ukraine of full
management of construction of the water canal to Crimea. A water canal which, along with
electricity, has now been dammed by Ukraine, so apparently, the job is finished.
ATO,
Russia and Ukraine have an agreement that allows Russia to have 22,000 armed services members
in Crimea. The Russia presence before the annexing was LEGAL by treaty.
Under Ukrainian law Viktor Yanukovych was never legally removed from office. His removal
and replacement was a violation of the Ukrainian Constitution.
If you research the US/UK techniques used during the 1953 Iranian coup, you'll see that
the 2013-14 Ukrainian coup was very close to being an exact duplicate.
Do none of the "leaders" have even a smidgeon of shame over the disgraceful dismantling of
a system built on lessons learned over two hundred years of advances in measures to improve
public health?
Disgusting doesn't come close to summing up the effects of the "reforms."
"Unfortunately, experts say that Ukrainian-American health minister Ulana Suprun, who
replaced Kvitashvili in April 2016, is too busy lobbying for the closure of hospitals and
clinics to pay attention to the looming crisis."
Suprun is the one we talked about before, the offspring of a Canadian Banderite
family.
Dubious that her
conscious
goal is to destroy the Ukrainian people; but in essence,
that's what she is doing, brought on by a false ideology.
So when you cut through all the steam and the boilerplate, how do they plan to do it so it's
fairer to poor Ukrainians, but the state spends less?
Ah. They plan to
raise the age at which you
qualify for a pension
, doubtless among other money-savers. If the state plays its cards
right, the target demographic wil work all its adult life and then die before reaching
pensionable age. But as usual, we must be subjected to the usual western sermonizing about
how the whole initiative is all about helping people and doing good.
This is borne out in one of the other 'critical reforms' the IMF insisted upon before
releasing its next tranche of 'aid' – a land reform act which would allow Ukraine to
sell off its agricultural land
in the interests of 'creating a market'. Sure: as if.
Land-hungry western agricultural giants like Monsanto are drooling at the thought of
getting their hands on Ukraine's rich black earth
plus a chink in Europe's armor against
GMO crops. Another possible weapon to use against Russia would be the growing of huge volumes
of GMO grain so as to weaken the market for Russian grains.
Another element of the plan to reduce pension obligations is the dismantling of whatever
health care system that remain in the Ukraine. That is a twofer – save money on
providing medical services and shortening the life span. This would be another optimization
of wealth generation for the oligarchs and for those holding Ukraine debt.
I can just see Ukrainian health authorities giving away free cigarettes to patients and their
families next!
That remark was partly facetious and partly serious: life these days in the Ukraine sounds
so surreal that I wouldn't put it past the Ministry of Healthcare of Ukraine to come up with
the most hare-brained "reform" initiatives.
I recall a news story about the adverse effects of a reduction in smoking on the US Social
Security Trust Fund. Those actuaries make those calculations for a living. The trouble with
shortening life spans via cancer is that end-of-life treatment tends to be very expensive
unless
people do not have or have very basic health insurance, then there is a likely
net gain. Alcohol, murder and suicides are generally much more efficient economically. I just
depressed myself.
Something does not add up. Any government expenditure is an economic stimulus. The only
potentially negative aspect is taxation. Since taxation is not excessive and in fact too
small on key layers (e.g. companies and the rich), there is no negative aspect to government
spending on pensions. So we have here narrow-definition accounting BS.
Agree that in a world where the people, represented by their governments, are in charge of
money creation and governments ran their financial systems independently of Wall Street and
Washington, any government spending would be welcomed as stimulating economic production and
development. The money later recirculates back to the government when the people who have
jobs created by government spending pay the money back through purchases of various other
government goods and services or through their taxes.
But in capitalist societies where increasingly banks are becoming the sole creators and
suppliers of money, government spending incurs debts that have to be paid back with interest.
In the past governments also raised money for major public projects by issuing treasury bonds
and securities but that doesn't seem to happen much these days.
Unfortunately also Ukraine is surviving mainly on IMF loans and the IMF certainly doesn't
want the money to go towards social welfare spending.
In fact, the IMF specifically intervenes to prevent spending loan money on social welfare, as
a condition of extending the loan. That might have been true since time out of mind for all I
know, but it certainly was true after the first Greek bailout, when leaders blew the whole
wad on pensions and social spending so as to ensure their re-election. They then went
sheepishly back to the IMF for a second bailout. So there are good and substantial reasons
for insisting the loan money not be wasted in this fashion, as that kind of spending
customarily does not generate any meaningful follow-on spending by the recipients, and is
usually absorbed by the cost of living.
But as we are all aware, such IMF interventions have a definite political agenda as well.
In Ukraine's case, the IMF with all its political inveigling is matched against a crafty
oligarch who will lift the whole lot if he is not watched. Alternatively, he might well blow
it all on social spending to ensure his re-election, thus presenting the IMF with a dilemma
in which it must either continue to support him, or cause him to fall.
Ha, ha, ha!!! "Russia seems to have corrupted rational conversation about foreign policy"!!!
I couldn't believe it – that suety smug dick Tucker was doing so well, but he had to
blame Russia for the fact that the United States made up so many things that Russia allegedly
did, but in fact did not. The reflex was just too strong.
You could almost hear heads exploding in Washington, too, when she said "Our so-called
allies like Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar "
"... Was not aware until recently, that (0)bama led a CIA coup in the Ukraine., a policy which leads up to today's Russia-gate maniacal following from the CIA fed media. ..."
"... The intercepted conversation by Nuland--"Fuck the EU"--announced the impending coup and confessed the Outlaw US Empire's responsibility for its occurrence. ..."
Was not aware until recently, that (0)bama led a CIA coup in the Ukraine., a policy which leads
up to today's Russia-gate maniacal following from the CIA fed media. If I were Trump, I'd go on
national TV and spill these beans.
Thanks for providing such a great example of what dh and I were discussing. The intercepted
conversation by Nuland--"Fuck the EU"--announced the impending coup and confessed the Outlaw US
Empire's responsibility for its occurrence.
The lie of "Russian Aggression" in Ukraine is made to cover up the #1 Crime committed by the
Outlaw US Empire. Most of the entire sanctions regime is based on that Big Lie. And the US Congress
has just implemented further policy based on that Big Lie--and its bipartisan!!
The Big Lie Dictatorship is what rules the Outlaw US Empire.
Just released and there is nothing else like it - Truth of Ukraine War Revealed: Watchdog
Media Releases Definitive Chronological Timeline Video of Ukrainian War From Euromaidan to
MH-17
[Jul 20, 2017] "https://marknesop.wordpress.com/2017/07/03/the-credibility-gap-that-ought-to-be/comment-page-6/#comment-175430"> The United States has almost tripled the cost of metallurgical coal for the Ukraine compared to 2016
Moscow Exile says:
July 19, 2017 at 3:35 amThe United States has almost tripled the cost of metallurgical coal
for the Ukraine compared to 2016 (report of U.S. Department of Energy). In January-March 2017 Kiev
bought coal at $206 per tonne, and a year earlier the price was $71 dollars. The volume of supply
has increased from 355 thousand to 865 thousand tons over the same period this year the value of
American coal for some countries has declined. In particular, Norway has purchased the fuel at $125
per ton, a year, and earlier for $140.
Who can answer the question why the Junta pays nearly twice the price for the same coal pay.
Some parts of US political elite is now really afraid of Russian China alliance forged by Clinton,
Bush Ii and Obama adventurism. It might be too late.
Notable quotes:
"... In 1998, as the Clinton administration took steps to enlarge NATO beyond eastern Germany, George Kennan forewarned: "In trying to place NATO ahead of the EU as the focal point of European unity, and at the same time in looking to Germany to be, together with the U.S., the greatest military power on the European continent, the NATO leaders are, as I see it, making a mistake of historical dimensions. They are trying to revive all the disturbing ghosts of the modern European past." 26 . ..."
"... In retrospect, the largely uncoordinated and overextended enlargements of NATO and the EU have both provoked the ghosts of European nationalism and Russian revanchist backlash. 27 ..."
The fighting in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine has moreover proved very costly for all
sides, and rebuilding the region will prove very difficult. The specter of more intense fighting
in the years ahead has been raised in the aftermath of Kiev's "creeping offensive" into the Donbass
region since mid-December 2016. Kiev's military move was ostensibly intended to check supplies going
to the Russian-backed autonomists (who in turn have begun to expropriate Ukrainian businesses in
the Donetsk and Lugansk regions), but has nonetheless stepped deeper into the gray zone between the
two sides.
6
A collapsed Donbass region that is potentially separated from a partitioned Ukraine could soon
become a much larger and unstable version of Russian-backed Transnistria, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia
combined. Such political and economic instability will continue to pollute the whole area with black
marketeering, weapons smuggling, and other forms of criminality. A failed "state" in eastern Ukraine
would not only prove very troublesome for an essentially bankrupt Kiev and the rest of the region,
but for Moscow as well-as the latter, for example, will need to deal with refugees fleeing to Russia.
Some 1.5 million people have already fled the country, with the vast majority (1.2 million) going
to the Russian Federation-which has not necessarily accepted them with open arms. Roughly 150,000
have gone to Belarus.
7 The cost of reconstruction and development in the aftermath of the conflict will
be considerable. So it should be in the common interest to bring this conflict to a close as soon
as possible.
The Question of Western Europe
A general settlement between the United States, European countries, Ukraine, and Russia is crucial
to prevent the further destabilization of eastern Europe that could, in turn, further antagonize
western Europe. Such a destabilization would deepen the divisions between pro-NATO and pro-EU sociopolitical
movements and anti-NATO and anti-EU movements on both the right and the left. In general, both left-wing
and right-wing political parties in states closest to Russia (Poland, Finland, Sweden, and the Baltic
states) tend to take a strong anti-Russian position, no matter whether they are for or against NATO
or EU membership. But left-wing and right-wing parties in both France and Germany-the two countries
that now form the core of the European Union after the UK's exit from the EU (Brexit)-tend to oppose
both EU and NATO membership.
During the ongoing process of Brexit, which could take several years to complete, it is not at
all clear where the European Union is heading. European financial instability means that a number
of states could, in the not too distant future, opt to drop out of the European Union and even out
of NATO. Here, for example, sanctions placed on Russia in the agricultural sector (coupled with a
Russian ban on European imports) have ironically been hurting the Europeans much more than the Americans.
The impact of EU and Russian sanctions, along with general impact of regional deindustrialization
and delocalization, has been pressing agricultural producers and workers, as well as small business
owners, to turn toward anti-EU anti-NATO parties on both the right and the left, particularly in
France.
9
In Search of a U.S.-Russia Policy
In apparent contrast to Trump's campaign promises to forge a general rapprochement with Moscow,
the United States and NATO are now backing Kiev's claims to eastern Ukraine and to the Crimea-while
still keeping the door open to Kiev's membership in NATO. This policy has reversed Trump's stance
during his presidential campaign, when he warned in August 2016 that U.S. efforts to regain Crimea
on behalf of Ukraine against Russia could result in World War III.
On the one hand, in arguing against Trump's proclaimed efforts to make amends with Moscow, Senator
John McCain and others have feared that U.S. secretary of state Rex Tillerson, the former CEO of
ExxonMobil, could use his connections with Putin for the benefit of ExxonMobil. He might, they suggest,
try to put an end to sanctions that had been placed by Washington on the Russian energy sector since
July 2014. Eliminating sanctions would then safeguard ExxonMobil's considerable joint investment
deals and potential profitability given the size of Russian reserves in the Arctic Kara Sea, western
Siberia, Sakhalin island, and in the Black Sea that had been reached with Rosneft, the Russian government
energy company, in 2012–13.11 The concern of those like McCain who want to sustain maximum political-economic
pressure on Moscow, is that "sectoral sanctions" impacting major energy companies and banks are due
to expire in December 2017-unless extended by Congress.12
On the other hand, Trump's "America First" policies are actually ideologically opposed to ExxonMobil's
investments in Moscow. Trump's "economic nationalists" hope to return U.S. multinational corporate
investments abroad back to the United States itself-while seeking to export U.S. shale oil and gas
to Europe, for example. In effect, U.S. shale oil exporters hope to supply Poland, Ukraine, and other
European countries so that these countries will be less dependent on Russian energy; Russia would
have to lower prices to compete. Kiev, for example, is still dependent upon Moscow for about half
of its natural gas needs.13 As opposed to the argument that the United States needs to sustain positive
political and economic "linkage" with Moscow (as Henry Kissinger would argue), the United States
could soon fully antagonize Moscow by becoming a direct rival for Russia's energy export markets-in
a sector in which Moscow derives significant national revenues.14
The major dilemma lies in the fact that U.S. diplomacy under President Barack Obama did not go
far enough to "reset" the general crisis in U.S.-Russian relations. Prior to Obama's first term,
neither the United States nor the EU picked up and developed two significant proposals that might
have prevented the escalation of tensions since 2014. The first proposal was Russian president Dmitri
Medvedev's June 2008 call in Berlin for a new European security pact and the second was Turkish president
Recep Tayyip Erdogan's call in Moscow for a new Caucasus Stability and Cooperation Pact in the aftermath
of the August 2008 Georgia-Russia War. President Obama did try to reach out to Moscow once he came
to power in January 2009, yet the fact that U.S.-Russia discussions did not address the issue of
the uncoordinated NATO and EU "double enlargement" into the Russian-defined "near abroad" could only
doom reset talks to failure.
Had the United States and EU reached out to address the issues impacting the Black Sea and Caucasus
raised by both Russia and NATO-member Turkey, this crisis might not have escalated. Instead, the
general attitude since the end of the Cold War was that NATO and the EU could somehow manage these
regions without the involvement of Russia-in the false assumption that Russia would do nothing to
defend its interests in its "near abroad." In effect, the general U.S. and EU attitude has been that
there was no need to create a new, jointly managed, regional peace and development community under
OSCE auspices that would incorporate the interests of Russia, Turkey, and other regional states.1
...the 2014 Minsk II accords between Germany, France, Ukraine, and Russia (in which the United
States is not a participant) were not designed to address the two elephants in the room: the questions
concerning NATO membership for Georgia and Ukraine, plus Ukrainian demands for the return of Crimea
from Russia. The focus of the Minsk discussions has been on the conflict in eastern Ukraine only-in
which a total ceasefire, Ukrainian "decentralization," and direct negotiations between Kiev and the
Donbass "autonomists" have been considered essential to success. Yet Kiev's promises of "decentralization"
have not been constitutionally implemented and the March 2017 decision of the Ukrainian Poroshenko
government to support the blockade on the Donbass region basically puts a dagger into the heart of
the Minsk II accords.16 It now appears politically impossible for the government in Kiev to recognize
the autonomist factions in the Donbass region, while Moscow has continued to supply autonomists with
weaponry.
Given the gravity of the situation, the Minsk discussions over eastern Ukraine will soon need
to be widened to include at least the United States and Turkey. This step would broaden the negotiations
to include issues impacting the Black Sea and Caucasus regions, plus the Crimea. NATO-member Turkey-despite
its deep domestic instability and President Erdogan's steps toward implementing an "illiberal democracy"-would
need to play a key role. Given Turkey's central position in the Black Sea region, Ankara could potentially
help to mediate between the United States and NATO, the EU, Ukraine, and Russia. Moscow is not the
only "illiberal democracy" that Washington needs to talk to. Turkey must be included as well.17
...A general settlement with Moscow that results in Ukrainian neutrality, but allows self-defense
forces and permits Moscow to retain sovereignty over Crimea, will not necessarily result in a full
"capitulation"-even if Washington must lower its sights as to what can and cannot be negotiated in
Moscow's view. Despite renewed conflict in eastern Ukraine since mid-December 2016, President Trump
has promised to "work with Ukraine, Russia, and all other parties involved to help them restore peace
along the (Russian-Ukrainian) border."
19 Yet Trump's promise to work for peace has not yet fully addressed the question
of the Crimea. It has, however, been alleged that Trump officials may have been secretly attempting
to make a deal with Moscow over Crimea and eastern Ukraine. That deal, somewhat like the negotiated
settlement that George Kennan had sought in 1949, was leaked to the press, leading to allegations
of Trump administration collusion with Moscow.
...
Even if the Minsk II accords collapse, or if the Donbass region separates from Ukraine in a future
partition, the United States, Europeans, and Russia will need to find ways to limit the damage. The
deployment of international peacekeepers in the Donbass region under a general OSCE mandate (going
beyond OSCE observers) could help ameliorate the situation considerably, once a political settlement
can be reached. At the same time, the United States, EU, Russia, and Ukraine would need to begin
reconstruction efforts through the implementation of a regional peace and development community backed
by U.S./NATO, EU, and Russian security supports under a general OSCE mandate.
Much like Kennan's "Plan A" with respect to Germany in 1949, a new approach to Euro-Atlantic security
through engaged negotiations with Moscow would accordingly seek to establish Ukraine as a formally
neutral state with limited self-defense capabilities. Both Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski
have likewise called for establishing Ukraine as a formally neutral country that is not a member
of NATO or the Russian-led CSTO. For his part, Kissinger has also argued that Ukraine should have
the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with the European Union.
Yet full EU membership is not a viable option either, as even the EU association accords require
that Kiev gradually adopt Common Security and Defense policies and European Defense Agency policies.
The problem is that the EU Eastern Partnership program has not yet been able to develop a formula
that can balance Russian security, defense, political-economic, financial, and energy interests with
those of the post-Soviet eastern European countries and of the EU itself. It is therefore essential
that the European Union begin to think more strategically, in cooperation with the United States,
as the two coordinate their rapprochement with Moscow.
21
NATO efforts to deploy rotating forces in the Baltic states and Poland are, as noted earlier,
being met by a buildup of Russian nuclear and conventional forces in northwest Russia and Kaliningrad,
plus major military maneuvers planned for September 2017. Despite the fact that President Putin's
proposal to restart military-to-military relations and to increase intelligence cooperation between
the United States and NATO was rejected in mid-February 2017 by Trump's new defense secretary, James
Mattis, a step-by-step normalization of U.S.-European-Russia relations should be considered.
22 This could be accomplished by means of setting up joint security exercises and
overflights in the Baltic region and Kaliningrad, and in the Black Sea region, and in joint U.S.,
EU, and Russian peacekeeping operations in Donbass and the Caucasus under a general OSCE mandate,
for example. The establishment of NATO-Russian confidence-building measures as soon as possible is
absolutely crucial if peace is to be maintained.
Once there is progress in these areas, the United States and EU could then begin to lift sanctions
on Russia, while also looking for ways to bring the United States, EU, and Russia into greater political-economic,
financial, and energy cooperation. One possibility would be a three-way trade and financial commission
between Ukraine, the European Union, and Russia. Another step would be to bring Moscow back into
the G-8 discussions after Russian membership was suspended in March 2014. Both G-8 and EU-Russian-Ukrainian
discussions could likewise lead the EU to work out a political-economic association accord that better
balances Russian and Ukrainian financial, political-economic, energy, and ecological interests-after
the EU's abysmal failure to do so in 2013–14.
After sanctions on Russia are put to an end, offering Russia American and European investment,
as well as joint military and security cooperation, could help to draw Moscow away from too great
a financial and economic dependence on Beijing. It could likewise prevent the formation of a closer
Sino-Russian military alliance, somewhat reminiscent of the 1950s, but in which Russia plays a role
as a junior partner. Such a strategy must not, however, alienate China, which is the main indirect
beneficiary of U.S.-European-Russian-Ukrainian conflict.
The United States is no longer locked into an existential war with the Soviet Union, and it should
cooperate with the Russian Federation in order to sustain peace in a number of key areas: Ukraine,
Iran's nuclear program, Syria/Iraq, Islamic State, and North Korea. All these areas, among many others,
need to be addressed as soon as possible through multiple forums, including the UN Security Council,
the OSCE, the NATO-Russia Council, the G-8, and Contact Groups, as well as through international
conferences and bilateral U.S.-Russia, U.S.-China meetings. The United States, Europeans, Japan,
and Russia will also need to channel China's rise to major power status in such a way that
it does not harm Russian, Japanese, or American interests.
The dilemma is that it is the rise of China with its burgeoning global political-economic influence
and increasingly powerful military capabilities-combined with a close alignment with Russia as a
junior partner-that now represents the primary concern causing tremors in the United States and throughout
the world. Washington will need to fully engage in both bilateral and multilateral negotiations with
both Beijing and Moscow if the global system is not to soon polarize into two contending alliance
systems: a U.S./NATO-EU-Japanese alliance of essentially democratic states vs. a Russia/CSTO-Chinese-Iranian
alliance of "illiberal democracies"-with democratic India soon forced to choose sides.
23
... ... ...
The danger is that U.S. domestic pressure to prevent the Trump administration from engaging in
more substantial negotiations with Putin could lead to an even deeper crisis. The Russian Federation
sees itself as being walled off in Europe, with its "near abroad" penetrated by the NATO EU "double
enlargement" which, Putin fears, could lead to the breakup of the Russian-led CSTO. The breakup of
the CSTO could, in turn, lead to the disaggregation of the Russian Federation itself. Certain regions
in Russia are nearly bankrupt, a fact which once again caused protests in March 2017 against corruption
and economic stagnation throughout the country. The fears of a potential breakup of the Russian Federation
(as occurred during World War I) have led Putin to seek out strong political-economic and military
ties with China in the effort to form a Eurasian Union, if not a military alliance. But unlike the
relatively peaceful disaggregation of the Soviet Union, the feared disaggregation of the Russian
Federation and concurrent civil war could lead to full scale Russian backlash.
In this regard, the Syrian crisis could provide the spark for an even greater conflagration. This
is because Moscow fears that the potential collapse of the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad will
result in the loss of Russia's position in the Middle East, while permitting pan-Sunni movements
to destabilize the immediate region as well as the northern Caucasus and other predominately Muslim
regions inside the Russian Federation itself. The April 2017 Trump administration decision to engage
in unilateral cruise missile strikes as a means to punish the Assad regime for its use of chemical
weaponry against its own population has been denounced by Moscow as yet another illegal unilateral
U.S. attack against a sovereign state.
In 1998, as the Clinton administration took steps to enlarge NATO beyond eastern Germany,
George Kennan forewarned: "In trying to place NATO ahead of the EU as the focal point of European
unity, and at the same time in looking to Germany to be, together with the U.S., the greatest military
power on the European continent, the NATO leaders are, as I see it, making a mistake of historical
dimensions. They are trying to revive all the disturbing ghosts of the modern European past."
26 .
In retrospect, the largely uncoordinated and overextended enlargements of NATO and the EU
have both provoked the ghosts of European nationalism and Russian revanchist backlash.
27
... ... ...
This article originally appeared in American Affairs Volume I, Number 2 (Summer 2017): 166–83.
"... I know a lot of people on this blog have experience in the intelligence world. I would be very interested in hearing what you think of my theory. ..."
"... intelligence sources ..."
"... So why are there so many "intelligence assessments" on important issues depending on social media "evidence"? ..."
"... four years earlier ..."
"... many of the "intelligence assessments" contain what look like hints by the authors that their reports are rubbish. ..."
I know a lot of people on this blog have experience in the intelligence world. I would be
very interested in hearing what you think of my theory.
In my career in the Canadian government I was never formally in "intelligence" but I did participate
in writing many "intelligence assessments". Facebook, Twitter and other kinds of social media didn't
much exist at that time but, even if they had, I can't imagine that we would have ever used them
as sources of evidence: social media is, to put it mildly, too easy to fake. In writing intelligence
assessments, while we did use information gathered from intelligence sources (ie secret),
probably more came from what was rather pompously called OSInt (Open Source Intelligence; in other
words, stuff you don't need a security clearance to learn). What was, however, the most important
part of creating an assessment was the long process of discussion in the group. Much talk and many
rewrites produced a consensus opinion.
A typical intelligence assessment would start with a question – what's going on with the economy,
or political leadership or whatever of Country X – and would argue a conclusion based on facts. So:
question, argument, conclusion. And usually a prediction – after all the real point of intelligence
is to attempt to reduce surprises. The intelligence assessment then made its way up the chain to
the higher ups; they may have ignored or disagreed with the conclusions but, as far as I know, the
assessment, signed off by the group that had produced it, was not tampered with: I never heard of
words being put into our mouths. The intelligence community regards tampering with an intelligence
assessment to make it look as if the authors had said something different as a very serious sin.
All of this is preparation to say that I know what an intelligence assessment is supposed to look
like and that I have seen a lot of so-called intelligence assessments coming out of Washington that
don't look like the real thing.
Intelligence is quite difficult. I like the analogy of trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle when you
don't know what the picture is supposed to be, you don't know how many pieces the puzzle has and
you're not sure that the pieces that you have are actually from the same puzzle. Let us say, for
example, that you intercept a phonecall in which the Leader of Country X is telling one of his flunkeys
to do something. Surely that's a gold standard? Well, not if the Leader knew you were listening (and
how would you know if he did?); nor if he's someone who changes his mind often. There are very few
certainties in the business and many many opportunities for getting it wrong.
So real raw intelligence data is difficult enough to evaluate; social media, on the other hand,
has so many credibility problems that it is worthless; worthless, that is, except as evidence of
itself (ie a bot campaign is evidence that somebody has taken the effort to do one). It is extremely
easy to fake: a Photoshopped picture can be posted and spread everywhere in hours; bots can create
the illusion of a conversation; phonecall recordings are easily stitched together: here are films
of Buks, here are phonecalls. (But, oddly enough, all the radars were down for maintenance that day).
It's so easy, in fact, that it's probably easier to create the fake than to prove that it is a fake.
There is no place in an intelligence assessment for "evidence" from something as unreliable as social
media.
An "intelligence assessment" that uses social media is suspect.
So why are there so many "intelligence assessments" on important issues depending on social
media "evidence"?
I first noticed social media used as evidence during the MH17 catastrophe when
Marie Harf, the then US State
Department spokesman, appealed to social media and "common sense" . She did so right after the
Russians had posted radar evidence (she hadn't "seen any of that" said she). At the time I assumed
that she was just incompetent. It was only later, when I read the "intelligence assessments" backing
up the so-called Russian influence on the US election, that I began to notice the pattern.
There are indications during the Obama Administration that the intelligence professionals were
becoming restive. Here are some examples that suggest that "intelligence assessments" were either
not being produced by the intelligence professionals or – see the last example – those that were
were then modified to please the Boss.
If one adds the reliance on social media to these indications, it seems a reasonable suspicion
that these so-called intelligence assessments are not real intelligence assessments produced by intelligence
professionals but are post facto justifications written up by people who know what the Boss wants
to hear.
We have already seen what appears to have been the first example of this with the "social media
and common sense" of MH17. And, from that day to this, not a shred of Kerry's "evidence" have we
seen. The long-awaited Dutch report was, as I said at the time, only a
modified hangout and very far from convincing .
This report is provided "as is" for informational purposes only. The Department of Homeland Security
(DHS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within.
Perhaps the most ridiculous part of the
DNI report of 6 January
2017 was the space – nearly half – devoted to a rant that had been published four years earlier
about the Russian TV channel RT. What that had to do with the Russian state influencing the
2016 election was obscure. But, revealingly, the report included:
We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump's election
chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably
to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment;
NSA has moderate confidence.
In other words, DHS told us to ignore its report and the one agency in the US intelligence structure
that would actually know about hacking and would have copies of everything – the NSA – wasn't very
confident. Both reports were soon torn apart: John McAfee: "I can promise you if it looks like the
Russians did it, then I can guarantee you it was not the Russians". (
See 10:30
). Jeffrey Carr: "
Fatally flawed ". Julian Assange:
not a state actor. Even
those
who loath Putin trashed them . In any case, as we now know, the
NSA
can mimic Russians or anyone else .
In April there was another suspiciously timed "CW attack" in Syria and, blithely ignoring that
the responders
didn't wear any protective gear in what was supposed to be a Sarin attack , the Western media
machine wound up its sirens. The
intelligence assessment that was released again referred to "credible open source reporting"
and even "pro-opposition social media reports" (! – are the authors so disgusted with what they have
to write that they leave gigantic hints like that in plain sight?). Then a page of so of how Moscow
trying to "confuse" the world community. And so on. This "intelligence assessment" was taken apart
by
Theodore Postol .
So, we have strong suggestions that the intelligence professionals are being sidelined or having
their conclusions altered; we have far too much reliance of social media; is there anything else
that we can see? Yes, there is: many of the "intelligence assessments" contain what look like
hints by the authors that their reports are rubbish.
Absurdly poor quality photos (maybe they were combine harvesters!).
Including a photo of damage to the port engine intake which contradicts the conclusion of the
MH-17 report.
DHS "does not provide any warranties".
The one agency that would know has only "moderate confidence".
Irrelevant rants about RT or assumed nefarious Russian intentions.
"Pro-opposition social media reports".
There are too many of these, in fact, not to notice – not that the Western media has noticed,
of course – they rather jump out at you once you look don't they? I don't recall inserting any little
such hints into any of the intelligence assessments that I was involved in.
In conclusion, it seems that a well-founded case can be presented that:
The normal process of producing intelligence assessments was not observed in the above cases;
"Intelligence assessments" were fabricated relying on social media (one can only assume because
there was nothing else);
The governor of Ukraine's central bank, Valeriya Gontareva, has resigned the post
after three years, following intense pressure from tycoons whose banks she shut down for
conducting illegal transactions and loans.
Meanwhile her personal wealth after 3 years in chrage of Ukraine's finances (read: of the
Western donors money) MYSTERIOUSLY increased to 7 blns of hryvnias and entire squadron of
luxury cars (from 3.5 mln hryvnas upwards each). What can I say?
Здобулы!
If Ukraine's central bank chief needed any more incentive to quit, last week she woke
up to find the image of a pig draped in a Russian flag spray-painted onto the wall of her
house and a gaggle of young protesters calling her a Russian stooge.
After a sustained hate campaign that also included a coffin laid at her door, Valeria
Gontareva finally quit on Monday.
Her departure, with no obvious candidate for a successor, leaves President Petro Poroshenko
with one fewer ally in power at a time when lenders keeping Ukraine afloat already question
his ability to follow through on promised reforms .
"... The roster of retired military officers endorsing Hillary Clinton in September glittered with decoration and rank. One former general led the American surge in Anbar, one of the most violent provinces in Iraq. Another commanded American-led allied forces battling the Taliban in Afghanistan . Yet another trained the first Iraqis to combat Islamic insurgents in their own country. ..."
"... After 15 years at war, many who served in Iraq or Afghanistan are proud of their service but exhausted by its burdens. They distrust the political class that reshaped their lives and are frustrated by how little their fellow citizens seem to understand about their experience. ..."
"... "When we jump into wars without having a real plan, things like Vietnam and things like Iraq and Afghanistan happen," said William Hansen, a former Marine who served two National Guard tours in Iraq. "This is 16 years. This is longer than Vietnam." ..."
The roster of retired military officers endorsing
Hillary Clinton in September glittered with decoration and rank. One former general led the American
surge in Anbar, one of the most violent provinces in Iraq. Another commanded American-led allied
forces battling the Taliban in
Afghanistan . Yet another trained the first Iraqis to combat Islamic insurgents in their own
country.
But as Election Day approaches, many veterans are instead turning to
Donald
J. Trump , a businessman who avoided the Vietnam draft and has boasted of gathering foreign policy
wisdom by watching television shows.
Even as other voters abandon Mr. Trump, veterans remain among his most loyal supporters, an unlikely
connection forged by the widening gulf they feel from other Americans.
After 15 years at war, many who served in Iraq or Afghanistan are proud of their service but
exhausted by its burdens. They distrust the political class that reshaped their lives and are frustrated
by how little their fellow citizens seem to understand about their experience.
Perhaps most strikingly, they welcome Mr. Trump's blunt attacks on America's entanglements overseas.
"When we jump into wars without having a real plan, things like Vietnam and things like Iraq
and Afghanistan happen," said William Hansen, a former Marine who served two National Guard tours
in Iraq. "This is 16 years. This is longer than Vietnam."
In small military towns in California and North Carolina, veterans of all eras cheer Mr. Trump's
promises to fire officials at the
Department of Veterans Affairs . His attacks on political correctness evoke their frustrations
with tortured rules of engagement crafted to serve political, not military, ends. In Mr. Trump's
forceful assertion of strength, they find a balm for wounds that left them broken and torn.
"He calls it out," said Joshua Macias, a former Navy petty officer and fifth-generation veteran
who lives in the Tidewater region of Virginia, where he organized a "Veterans for Trump" group last
year. "We have intense emotion connected to these wars. The way it was politicized, the way they
changed the way we fight in a war setting - it's horrible how they did that."
"... It has recently turned out that Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Pinchuk, a vocal proponent of Ukraine's European integration, made huge contributions to the Clinton Foundation, while Hillary Clinton was the US Secretary of State. Although the foundation swore off donations from foreign governments while Mrs. Clinton was serving as a state official, it continued accepting money from private donors. Many of them had certain ties to their national governments like Viktor Pinchuk, a Ukrainian businessman and ex-parliamentarian. ..."
"... Viktor Pinchuk has always been one of the most vocal proponents of Ukraine's European integration. In 2004 Pinchuk founded the Yalta European Strategy (YES) platform in Kiev. YES is led by the board including ex-president of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski and former NATO Secretary General Javier Solana. According to the website of the platform, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Condoleezza Rice, Kofi Annan, Radoslaw Sikorski, Vitaliy Klitschko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Petro Poroshenko and other prominent figures have participated in annual meetings of YES since 2004. ..."
"... Experts note that after the coup, the Ukrainian leadership has actually become Washington's puppet government. Several foreign citizens, including American civilian Natalie Jaresko, Lithuanian investment banker Aivaras Abromavicius and Georgia-born Alexander Kvitashvili have assumed high posts in the Ukrainian government. It should be noted that Natalie Jaresko, Ukraine's Financial Minister, have previously worked in the US State Department and has also been linked to oligarch Viktor Pinchuk. ..."
A sinister atmosphere surrounds the Clinton Foundation's role in Ukrainian military coup of February
2014, experts point out.
It has recently turned out that Ukrainian oligarch Viktor Pinchuk, a vocal proponent of Ukraine's
European integration, made huge contributions to the Clinton Foundation, while Hillary Clinton was
the US Secretary of State. Although the foundation swore off donations from foreign governments while
Mrs. Clinton was serving as a state official, it continued accepting money from private donors. Many
of them had certain ties to their national governments like Viktor Pinchuk, a Ukrainian businessman
and ex-parliamentarian.
Remarkably, among individual donors contributing to the Clinton Foundation in the period between
1999 and 2014, Ukrainian sponsors took first place in the list, providing the charity with almost
$10 million and pushing England and Saudi Arabia to second and third places respectively.
It is worth mentioning that the Viktor Pinchuk Foundation alone transferred at least $8.6 million
to the Clinton charity between 2009 and 2013. Pinchuk, who acquired his fortune from a pipe-making
business, served twice as a parliamentarian in Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada and was married to the daughter
of ex-president of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma.
Although the Clinton's charity denies that the donations were somehow connected with political
matters, experts doubt that international private sponsors received no political support in return.
In 2008 Pinchuk pledged to make a five-year $29 million contribution to the Clinton Global Initiative
in order to fund a program aimed at training future Ukrainian leaders and "modernizers." Remarkably,
several alumni of these courses are current members of Ukrainian parliament. Because of the global
financial crisis, the Pinchuk Foundation sent only $1.8 million.
Experts note that during Mrs. Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, Viktor Pinchuk was introduced
to some influential American lobbyists. Curiously enough, he tried to use his powerful "friends"
to pressure Ukraine's then-President Viktor Yanukovych to free Yulia Tymoshenko, who served a jail
term.
Viktor Pinchuk has always been one of the most vocal proponents of Ukraine's European integration.
In 2004 Pinchuk founded the Yalta European Strategy (YES) platform in Kiev. YES is led by the board
including ex-president of Poland Aleksander Kwasniewski and former NATO Secretary General Javier
Solana. According to the website of the platform, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Condoleezza Rice,
Kofi Annan, Radoslaw Sikorski, Vitaliy Klitschko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Petro Poroshenko and other prominent
figures have participated in annual meetings of YES since 2004.
No one would argue that proponents of Ukraine's pro-Western course played the main role in organizing
the coup of February 2014 in Kiev. Furthermore, the exceptional role of the United States in ousting
then-president Viktor Yanukovich has also been recognized by political analysts, participants of
Euromaidan and even by Barack Obama, the US President.
Experts note that after the coup, the Ukrainian leadership has actually become Washington's puppet
government. Several foreign citizens, including American civilian Natalie Jaresko, Lithuanian investment
banker Aivaras Abromavicius and Georgia-born Alexander Kvitashvili have assumed high posts in the
Ukrainian government. It should be noted that Natalie Jaresko, Ukraine's Financial Minister, have
previously worked in the US State Department and has also been linked to oligarch Viktor Pinchuk.
So far, experts note, the recent "game of thrones" in Ukraine has been apparently instigated by
a few powerful clans of the US and Ukraine, who are evidently benefitting from the ongoing turmoil.
In this light the Clinton Foundation looks like something more than just a charity: in today's world
of fraudulent oligopoly we are facing with global cronyism, experts point out, warning against its
devastating consequences.
"... There are a variety of potential threats around the world today: tensions in the South China Seas, a nuclear North Korea, conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and civil wars in the Middle East are just a few. In order to better think about these challenges and how they relate to U.S. national security, the Center for the National Interest partnered with the Charles Koch Institute to host a foreign policy roundtable which addressed the question: What is the most pressing issue for America's foreign policy? ..."
"... Mearsheimer argues that the second problematic dimension of U.S. foreign policy is that the United States is "heavily into transformation." By "transformation," Mearsheimer means that "We believe that what we should do in the process of running the world is topple governments that are not liberal democracies and transform them into [neo]liberal democracies." ..."
"... according to Mearsheimer, the United States is pursuing "a hopeless cause; there is a huge literature that makes it clear that promoting democracy around the world is extremely difficult to do, and doing it at the end of a rifle barrel is almost impossible." ..."
"... "It's remarkably difficult to understand why we still continue to think we can dominate the world and pursue the same foreign policy we've been pursuing at least since 2001, when it has led to abject failure after abject failure." ..."
"... Andrew Bacevich opines that the United States needs to "come to some understanding of who we are and why we do these things – a critical understanding of the American identity." Notre Dame's Michael Desch agrees: "That cuts to the core of American political culture. I think the root of the hubris is deep in the software that animates how we think about ourselves, and how we think about the world." ..."
There are a variety of potential threats around the world today: tensions in the South China
Seas, a nuclear North Korea, conflict between Russia and Ukraine, and civil wars in the Middle East
are just a few. In order to better think about these challenges and how they relate to U.S. national
security, the Center for the National Interest partnered with the Charles Koch Institute to host
a foreign policy roundtable which addressed the question: What is the most pressing issue for America's
foreign policy?
Watch the rest of the videos in the "Grand Strategy" series.
John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago doesn't shy away from a bold answer: The most pressing
issue is that the United States has a "fundamentally misguided foreign policy." Mearsheimer argues
that there are two dimensions to U.S. foreign policy that get the United States into "big trouble."
First, he says, "We believe that we can dominate the globe, that we can control what happens in every
nook and cranny of the world." The problem with this is that "the world is simply too big and nationalism
is much too powerful of a force to make it possible for us to come close to doing that."
Mearsheimer argues that the second problematic dimension of U.S. foreign policy is that the United
States is "heavily into transformation." By "transformation," Mearsheimer means that "We believe
that what we should do in the process of running the world is topple governments that are not liberal
democracies and transform them into [neo]liberal democracies."
The United States has engaged in numerous international military interventions over the past fifteen
years, primarily in the Middle East. Proponents of these interventions argue that they are necessary
in order to build stable democracies in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. However, according to Mearsheimer,
the United States is pursuing "a hopeless cause; there is a huge literature that makes it clear that
promoting democracy around the world is extremely difficult to do, and doing it at the end of a rifle
barrel is almost impossible."
So why has the United States continued to pursue policies and strategies that fail to convert
U.S. military might into political ends?
Eugene Gholz of the University of Texas at Austin suggests that the root of the issue could be
American hubris. The United States has made the mistake of "thinking we can control things we can't
control." Mearsheimer agrees with Gholz, although he finds the situation perplexing: "It's remarkably
difficult to understand why we still continue to think we can dominate the world and pursue the same
foreign policy we've been pursuing at least since 2001, when it has led to abject failure after abject
failure."
Several other scholars chime in to offer their own thoughts on this thorny issue. Boston University's
Andrew Bacevich opines that the United States needs to "come to some understanding of who we are
and why we do these things – a critical understanding of the American identity." Notre Dame's Michael Desch agrees: "That cuts to the core of American political culture. I think the root of the hubris
is deep in the software that animates how we think about ourselves, and how we think about the world."
Harvard University's Stephen Walt offers yet another possibility. Walt asks if the U.S. commitment
to its current misguided and damaging foreign policy is due to "deep culture" or if it is result
of "the national security apparatus we built after World War II." Walt thinks it is the latter: the
United States "was not a highly interventionist country until after the Second World War." After
World War II, "we built a large national security state, we had bases everywhere, and then we discovered
that we can't let go of any of that, even though the original reason for building it is gone."
Did the other panelists agree with Walt? Did anyone suggest a different problem as a candidate
for the most pressing issue? Watch the full video above to see and be sure to check out the other
videos of CNI and CKI's panel of nationally acclaimed foreign policy scholars addressing additional
questions.
More stupidity. First off, the American elite (like all elites) is far from unitary and most of them back Republicans, though
they hedge their bets by also supporting centrist Democrats.
I would submit that there are very few voters that will vote from Clinton because of this "cold war rhetoric" schtick. Greenwald
keeps falling and cannot get up.
ilsm -> EMichael...
Few "will [move the] vote from Clinton because of this "cold war rhetoric" schtick.
Those "few" were awake during the 80's and see the nuclear/neocon dystopian horror behind Clinton. While Trump mentioned
using nukes, Hillary's nuke policy is 'well' laid out by Robert Kagan and the hegemon interests.
Recall Mao said "go ahead......' Nukes are just another form of the pointless body count strategy.
likbez -> ilsm...
Like before WWI, Hillary might be "a symptom of degenerate [neoliberal] aristocracy clinging to irresponsible power." Gen. Butler,
"War Is A Racket." is still a classic book on the subject.
All war is for profit. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were fought for profit. The profit from Iraqi oil and whatever was
expected from Afghanistan were irrelevant. Weapons of mass destruction, the Taliban, even Isis, were and are all issues that
could have been more efficiently handled, but instead were pretexts to convince the credulous of the necessity of war.
The real profit was the profit taken by the military-political-industrial complex in the treasure and stolen rights of the
American people. That is the bottom line for why we went to war, and why we are still there, and why, if our elites persist,
we might go to war with Russia or China.
The good news is that, because of the unrelenting depredations by American elites on the treasure and rights of the people,
the United States is increasingly unable to wage war effectively. The bad news is that our elites are too blind to see this.
America: Consuming your future today.
====
Peter T 10.23.16 at 8:56 am
faustusnotes
fear of "socialism" – meaning, broadly, greater popular participation in politics – was explicitly a major factor in the
German and Russian decisions for war. In both cases, they hoped victory would shore up increasingly fragile conservative dominance.
It also underlay British and French attitudes. 1870-1914 was a very stressful time for elites.
1915 was too early for any of the combatants to settle. By mid-late 1916 there were some voices in favour of negotiations,
but the Germans would have none of it then or in 1917. By the time the Germans were prepared to talk (mid 1918), they had lost.
Fear of socialism was again a major factor in the post-war settlements.
Liberals of today see World War I as the great disaster that shattered the pre-war liberal order. In the same way, the generation
post 1815 saw the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars as the great disaster that shattered the happy old order. The extent of the
damage and loss was much the same in each, although World War I took 5 years to do what the French wars did in 25.
===
Omega Centauri 10.23.16 at 1:13 am ( 33 )
The decision to continue it seems to be a natural consequence of the human proclivity towards doubling down. This operates
on many levels, some of which are related to the need for vindication of those involved in the decision to start the conflict.
There is also the horror that if you end a war without achieving something the masses can identify with as victory, then the
families of those killed will see that their loved ones died in vain -- for someone else's mistake (very bad for your political
future).
And of course if you quit, what is to stop the enemy from extracting reparations or worse from you, because in his eyes, you
are the criminal party. Much easier to try yet one more offensive, or to lure a formerly neutral party into joining in and opening
up another front, which you hope will break the stalemate.
The thing that appalls me so much about the Great War, is how so many nations were dragged in, by promises of booty
. In many ways it resembles the Peloponnisian war, in its inability to allow neutrals to be neutrals.
"... Continuing the war, once the bloodbath is underway and its futility is fully evident (which surely is objectively the case as early as 1915), seems to me to be the point where moral culpability on all sides applies most forcibly. ..."
"... It was a symptom of degenerate aristocracy clinging to irresponsible power. Continuing to turn the crank on the meat grinder without any realistic strategic hope or aim should have condemned the military establishment as well as the political establishment in several countries where it didn't. Hindenburg was there to appoint Hitler; Petain to surrender France. ..."
"... And, before the war? Are the arguments against war really connecting? ..."
"... That internationalist idea doesn't seem to survive the war's first hours, let alone first weeks. ..."
"... Universal conscription in France and Germany created a common experience. Several generations learned not so much the horror of mass slaughter as war as the instant of national glory in dramatic crises and short-lived conflicts with a decisive result. ..."
"... Certainly, there had been arguments made before the war and even several disparate political movements that had adopted ideas critical of imperialism by military means. I question, though, how engaged they were with mainstream politics of the day and therefore how fully developed we can say their ideas or arguments were. ..."
"... Consider the Hague Conferences of 1899 and 1907 as examples of the state of the practical politics of a program for peace. The first Conference was called by the Czar and the second by Theodore Roosevelt - no little irony in either case. ..."
"... the 1907 Conference as an illustration of the growing war fever gripping western (so-called) civilization, as many of the delegates apparently sat around discussing how they longed for a cleansing war. ..."
"... I cannot pretend to understand the psychology, but I accept that it was prevalent, as least for a certain class. Morally reprehensible this glorification of war? I certainly think so. Was it engaged by fully developed argument? When? ..."
"... It was against the background of this Great Game of elite diplomacy and saber-rattling and brief, limited wars that efforts had been made to erect an arguably more idealistic apparatus of liberal international peace thru international law, limitations of armaments and the creation of formal mechanisms for the arbitration of disputes. ..."
"... If this was the institutional program produced by "the fully developed and strongly argued" case against war, it wasn't that fully developed or strongly argued, as demonstrated by the severe shortcomings of the Hague Conferences. ..."
"... The consequences were horrific as mass mobilization and industrialized warfare combined with primitive means of command-and-control and reactionary often incompetent leadership to create a blood-bath of immense scale. (See my first comment.) ..."
The case against war was fully developed and strongly argued in the years before 1914 . . .
Was it? I wonder about that.
Continuing the war, once the bloodbath is underway and its futility is fully evident (which surely is objectively the case
as early as 1915), seems to me to be the point where moral culpability on all sides applies most forcibly. It is on this
point that I think arguments from before the war cannot have the weight the horror of experience must give them. Elite leadership
across Europe failed.
It was a symptom of degenerate aristocracy clinging to irresponsible power. Continuing to turn the crank on the meat grinder
without any realistic strategic hope or aim should have condemned the military establishment as well as the political establishment
in several countries where it didn't. Hindenburg was there to appoint Hitler; Petain to surrender France.
It is inexplicable, really, unless you can see that the moral and practical case against war is not fully developed between the
wars; if there's a critique that made use of experience in its details in the 1920s and 1930s and made itself heard, I missed
it - it seems like opposites of such an appreciation triumph.
And, before the war? Are the arguments against war really connecting? There's certainly a socialist argument against
war, based on the illegitimacy of war's class divisions, which were conveniently exemplified in military rank and reactionary
attitudes among the officer class. That internationalist idea doesn't seem to survive the war's first hours, let alone first
weeks.
Universal conscription in France and Germany created a common experience. Several generations learned not so much the horror
of mass slaughter as war as the instant of national glory in dramatic crises and short-lived conflicts with a decisive result.
bruce wilder 10.22.16 at 8:47 pm.26
Certainly, there had been arguments made before the war and even several disparate political movements that had adopted
ideas critical of imperialism by military means. I question, though, how engaged they were with mainstream politics of the day
and therefore how fully developed we can say their ideas or arguments were.
Consider the Hague Conferences of 1899 and 1907 as examples of the state of the practical politics of a program for peace.
The first Conference was called by the Czar and the second by Theodore Roosevelt - no little irony in either case.
Without looking it up I recall Barbara Tuchman using the 1907 Conference as an illustration of the growing war fever gripping
western (so-called) civilization, as many of the delegates apparently sat around discussing how they longed for a cleansing war.
I cannot pretend to understand the psychology, but I accept that it was prevalent, as least for a certain class. Morally
reprehensible this glorification of war? I certainly think so. Was it engaged by fully developed argument? When?
The long effort by reactionary forces to assemble a coalition capable of defeating Napoleon had created in Europe what for
a time was called the Concert of Europe. Austria, Prussia and Russia initially cooperated in suppressing liberal and nationalist
aspirations and that effort gradually morphed into efforts to harness or channel rising liberalism and nationalism and industrial
power.
It was the evolved apparatus descended from Metternich's Congress of Vienna thru Bismarck's Congress of Berlin that made wars
brief and generally decisive in regard to some policy end.
The long list of successive crises and brief wars that stevenjohnson references above - often cited as evidence of the increasing
fragility of the general peace - could just as well be cited as evidence for the continued effectiveness of the antique Concert
of Europe in containing and managing the risk of general war. (Fashoda 1898, Venezuela 1902, Russo-Japanese War 1905, Agadir 1911,
Balkan Wars 1911-1912 - it can be a very long list).
It was against the background of this Great Game of elite diplomacy and saber-rattling and brief, limited wars that efforts
had been made to erect an arguably more idealistic apparatus of liberal international peace thru international law, limitations
of armaments and the creation of formal mechanisms for the arbitration of disputes.
If this was the institutional program produced by "the fully developed and strongly argued" case against war, it wasn't
that fully developed or strongly argued, as demonstrated by the severe shortcomings of the Hague Conferences.
It was one of the mechanisms for peace by international law - the neutrality of Belgium mutually guaranteed by Britain and
Germany in the Treaty of London 1839 - that triggered Britain's entry as an Allied Power and general war. There is, of course,
no particular reason Australia should have taken an interest in Belgium's neutrality, but it was that issue that seemed to compel
the consensus of opinion in favor of war in Britain's government.
The consequences were horrific as mass mobilization and industrialized warfare combined with primitive means of command-and-control
and reactionary often incompetent leadership to create a blood-bath of immense scale. (See my first comment.)
What I don't find is the alternative lever or mechanism at the ready, put in place by this fully developed argument against
war. The mechanism in place was the neutrality of Belgium guaranteed by international law (arguably reinforced in the stipulations
of the Hague Conference of 1907). If Germany doesn't violate Belgian neutrality, the result in the West at least is stalemate
as France and Germany are evenly matched across their narrow and mostly impassable frontier; in the East, Russia must concede
to Germany even as Austria must concede to Russia; - instead of a general conflagration, the result is another negotiated settlement
of some sort, perhaps arbitrated by Britain or the U.S.
The urgent questions of the day regarding the organization of modern liberal polities in the territories of Ottoman Turkey,
Hapsburg Austria and Czarist Russia - what is the strongly argued and fully developed case there? How is the cause of Polish nationalism,
or Finnish nationalism or Yugoslav nationalism to be handled or managed without violence and war?
The antique system of a Concert of Europe had kinda sorta found a way by means of short and decisive engagements followed by
multi-power negotiation, a pattern that had continued with the gradual emergence of Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania. But, where was
the argument for managing irredentism and nationalist aspiration peacefully?
"... Just a re-post from the last thread to the new . "In a remarkable conflict-of-interest, Fox News analyst and former Clinton operative Douglas E. Schoen has failed to disclosed to readers that he's been paid millions of dollars from Ukrainian agents to incite a war between the United States and Russia. ..."
Just a re-post from the last thread to the new . "In a remarkable conflict-of-interest, Fox
News analyst and former Clinton operative Douglas E. Schoen has failed to disclosed to readers
that he's been paid millions of dollars from Ukrainian agents to incite a war between the United
States and Russia.
"... I would agree that Trump is horrible candidate. The candidate who (like Hillary) suggests complete degeneration of the US neoliberal elite. ..."
"... But the problem is that Hillary is even worse. Much worse and more dangerous because in addition to being a closet Republican she is also a warmonger. In foreign policy area she is John McCain in pantsuit. And if you believe that after one hour in White House she does not abandon all her election promises and start behaving like a far-right republican in foreign policy and a moderate republican in domestic policy, it's you who drunk too much Cool Aid. ..."
"... In other words, the USA [workers and middle class] now is in the political position that in chess is called Zugzwang: we face a choice between the compulsive liar, unrepentant, extremely dangerous and unstable warmonger with failing health vs. a bombastic, completely unprepared to governance of such a huge country crook. ..."
The key problems with Democratic Party and Hillary is that they lost working class and middle
class voters, becoming another party of highly paid professionals and Wall Street speculators
(let's say top 10%, not just 1%), the party of neoliberal elite.
It will be interesting to see if yet another attempt to "bait and switch" working class and
lower middle class works this time. I think it will not. Even upper middle class is very resentful
of Democrats and Hillary. So many votes will be not "for" but "against". This is the scenario
Democratic strategists fear the most, but they can do nothing about it.
She overplayed "identity politics" card. Her "identity politics" and her fake feminism are
completely insincere. She is completely numb to human suffering and interests of females and minorities.
Looks like she has a total lack of empathy for other people.
"What scares me is my knowledge of her career-long investment in trying to convince the
generals and the admirals that she is a 'tough bitch', ala Margaret Thatcher, who will not
hesitate to pull the trigger. An illuminating article in the NY Times (
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/magazine/how-hillary-clinton-became-a-hawk.html ) revealed
that she always advocates the most muscular and reckless dispositions of U.S. military forces
whenever her opinion is solicited. "
Usually people are resentful about Party which betrayed them so many times. It would be interesting
to see how this will play this time.
Beverly Mann October 23, 2016 12:00 pm
It will be interesting to see if yet another attempt to "bait and switch" working class and
lower middle class works this time?
Yup. The Republicans definitely have the interests of the working class and lower middle class
at heart when they give, and propose, ever deeper tax cuts for the wealthy, the repeal of the
estate tax that by now applies only to estates of more than $5 million, complete deregulation
of the finance industry, industry capture of every federal regulatory agency and cabinet department
and commission or board, from the SEC, to the EPA, to the Interior Dept. (in order to hand over
to the oil, gas and timber industries vast parts of federal lands), the FDA, the FTC, the FCC,
the NLRB, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and the Justice Dept. (including the Antitrust
Division)-to name only some.
And OF COURSE it's to serve the interests of the working class and lower middle class that
they concertedly appoint Supreme Court justices and lower federal court judges that are unabashed
proxies of big business.
And then there's the incessant push to privatize Social Security and Medicare. It ain't the
Dems that are pushing that.
You're drinking wayyy too much Kool Aid, likbez. Or maybe just reading too much Ayn Rand, at
Paul Ryan's recommendation.
beene October 23, 2016 10:31 am
I would suggest despite most of the elite in both parties supporting Hillary, and saying
she has the election in the bag is premature. In my opinion the fact that Trump rallies still
has large attendance; where Hillary's rallies would have trouble filling up a large room is a
better indication that Trump will win.
Even democrats are not voting democratic this time to be ignored till election again.
likbez October 23, 2016 12:56 pm
Beverly,
=== quote ===
Yup. The Republicans definitely have the interests of the working class and lower middle class
at heart when they give, and propose, ever deeper tax cuts for the wealthy, the repeal of the
estate tax that by now applies only to estates of more than $5 million, complete deregulation
of the finance industry, industry capture of every federal regulatory agency and cabinet department
and commission or board, from the SEC, to the EPA, to the Interior Dept. (in order to hand
over to the oil, gas and timber industries vast parts of federal lands), the FDA, the FTC,
the FCC, the NLRB, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and the Justice Dept. (including
the Antitrust Division) -- to name only some.
And OF COURSE it's to serve the interests of the working class and lower middle class that
they concertedly appoint Supreme Court justices and lower federal court judges that are unabashed
proxies of big business.
=== end of quote ===
This is all true. But Trump essentially running not as a Republican but as an independent on
(mostly) populist platform (with elements of nativism). That's why a large part of Republican
brass explicitly abandoned him. That does not exclude that he easily will be co-opted after the
election, if he wins.
And I would not be surprised one bit if Dick Cheney, Victoria Nuland, Paul Wolfowitz and Perle
vote for Hillary. Robert Kagan and papa Bush already declared such an intention. She is a neocon.
A wolf in sheep clothing, if we are talking about real anti-war democrats, not the USA brand of
DemoRats. She is crazy warmonger, no question about it, trying to compensate a complete lack of
diplomatic skills with jingoism and saber rattling.
The problem here might be that you implicitly idealize Hillary and demonize Trump.
I would agree that Trump is horrible candidate. The candidate who (like Hillary) suggests
complete degeneration of the US neoliberal elite.
But the problem is that Hillary is even worse. Much worse and more dangerous because in
addition to being a closet Republican she is also a warmonger. In foreign policy area she is John
McCain in pantsuit. And if you believe that after one hour in White House she does not abandon
all her election promises and start behaving like a far-right republican in foreign policy and
a moderate republican in domestic policy, it's you who drunk too much Cool Aid.
That's what classic neoliberal DemoRats "bait and switch" maneuver (previously executed
by Obama two times) means. And that's why working class now abandoned Democratic Party. Even unions
members of unions which endorses Clinton are expected to vote 3:1 against her. Serial betrayal
of interests of working class (and lower middle class) after 25 years gets on nerve. Not that
their choice is wise, but they made a choice. This is "What's the matter with Kansas" all over
again.
It reminds me the situation when Stalin was asked whether right revisionism of Marxism (social
democrats) or left (Trotskyites with their dream of World revolution) is better. He answered "both
are worse" :-).
In other words, the USA [workers and middle class] now is in the political position that
in chess is called Zugzwang: we face a choice between the compulsive liar, unrepentant, extremely
dangerous and unstable warmonger with failing health vs. a bombastic, completely unprepared to
governance of such a huge country crook.
Of course, we need also remember about existence of "deep state" which make each of
them mostly a figurehead, but still the power of "deep state" is not absolute and this is a very
sad situation.
Beverly Mann, October 23, 2016 1:57 pm
Good grace.
Two points: First, you apparently are unaware of Trump's proposed tax plan, written by Heritage
Foundation economists and political-think-tank types. It's literally more regressively extreme
evn than Paul Ryan's. It gives tax cuts to the wealthy that are exponentially more generous percentage-wise
than G.W. Bush's two tax cuts together were, it eliminates the estate tax, and it gives massive
tax cuts to corporations, including yuge ones.
Two billionaire Hamptons-based hedge funders, Robert Mercer and his daughter Rebekah, have
been funding a super PAC for Trump and since late spring have met with Trump and handed him policy
proposals and suggestions for administrative agency heads and judicial appointments. Other yuge
funders are members of the Ricketts family, including Thomas Ricketts, CEO of TD Ameritrade and
a son of its founder.
Two other billionaires funding Trump: Forrest Lucas, founder of Lucas Oil and reportedly Trump's
choice for Interior Secretary if you and the working class and lower middle class folks whose
interests Trump has at heart get their way.
And then there's Texas oil billionaire Harold Hamm, Trump's very first billionaire mega-donor.
One of my recurring pet peeves about Clinton and her campaign is her failure to tell the public
that these billionaires are contributing mega-bucks to help fund Trump's campaign, and to tell
the public who exactly they are. As well as her failure to make a concerted effort to educate
the public about the the specifics of Trump's fiscal and deregulatory agenda as he has published
it.
As for your belief that I idealize Clinton, you obviously are very new to Angry Bear. I was
a virulent Sanders supporter throughout the primaries, to the very end. In 2008 I originally supported
John Edwards during the primaries and then, when it became clear that it was a two-candidate race,
supported Obama. My reason? I really, really, REALLY did not want to see another triangulation
Democratic administration. That's largely what we got during Obama's first term, though, and I
was not happy about it.
Bottom line: I'm not the gullible one here. You are.
likbez, October 23, 2016 2:37 pm
You demonstrate complete inability to weight the gravity of two dismal, but unequal in their
gravity options.
All your arguments about Supreme Court justices, taxes, inheritance and other similar things
make sense if and only if the country continues to exist.
Which is not given due to the craziness and the level of degeneration of neoliberal elite and
specifically Hillary ("no fly zone in Syria" is one example of her craziness). Playing chickens
with a nuclear power for the sake of proving imperial dominance in Middle East is a crazy policy.
Neocons rule the roost in both parties, which essentially became a single War Party with two
wings. Trump looks like the only chance somewhat to limit their influence and reach some détente
with Russia.
Looks like you organically unable to understand that your choice in this particular case is
between the decimation of the last remnants of the New Deal and a real chance of WWIII.
This is not "pick your poison" situation. Those are two events of completely difference magnitude:
one is reversible (and please note that Trump is bound by very controversial obligations to his
electorate and faces hostile Congress), the other is not.
We all should do our best to prevent the unleashing WWIII even if that means temporary decimation
of the remnants of New Deal.
Neoliberalism after 2008 entered zombie state, so while it is still strong, aggressive and
bloodthirsty it might not last for long. And in such case the defeat of democratic forces on domestic
front is temporary.
On September 28 the French mission to the UN claimed that two hospitals in east-Aleppo had been bombed.
It documented this in a tweet with
a picture of destroyed buildings in Gaza. The French later deleted that tweet.
It is not the first time such false claims and willful obfuscations were made by "western" officials.
But usually they shy away from outright lies.
Not so the US Secretary of State John Kerry. In a press event yesterday, before talks with the French
Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault about a new UN resolution,
he said (vid
@1:00) about Syria:
Last night, the regime attacked yet another hospital, and 20 people were killed and 100 people
were wounded. And Russia and the regime owe the world more than an explanation about why they
keep hitting hospitals and medical facilities and children and women.These are acts that beg for
an appropriate investigation of war crimes. And those who commit these would and should be held
accountable for these actions.
No opposition group has claimed that such an extremely grave event happened. None. No press agency
has a record of it. The MI-6 disinformation outlet SOHR in Britain, which quite reliably notes every
claimed casualty and is frequently cited in "western" media", has not said anything about such an
event anywhere in Syria.
The grave incident Kerry claimed did not happen. Kerry made it up. (Was it supposed to happen, got
canceled and Kerry missed the memo?) Kerry used the lie to call for war crime investigations and
punishment. This in front of cameras, at an official event with a foreign guest in the context of
a United Nations Security Council resolution.
This is grave. This is nearly as grave as Colin Powell's false claims of WMD in Iraq in front of
the UN Security Council.
Early reports, like
this one at CBSNEWS, repeat the Kerry claim:
Kerry said Syrian forces hit a hospital overnight, killing 20 people and wounding 100, describing
what would be the latest strike by Moscow or its ally in Damascus on a civilian target.
But the New York Times write up of the event, which includes Kerry's demand for war crime investigations,
does not mention the hospital bombing claim. Not at all. For the self-acclaimed "paper of record",
Kerry's lie did not happen. Likewise the Washington Post which in its own write up
makes no mention of the false Kerry claim.
The latest AP write up by Matthew Lee
also omits the lie. This is curious as Matt Lee is obviously aware of it. The State Departments
daily press briefing yesterday
had a whole section
on it. Video (@3:30)
shows that it is Matt who asks these questions:
QUESTION: Okay. On to Syria and the Secretary's comments earlier this morning, one is: Do you
know what strike he was talking about in his comments overnight on a hospital in Aleppo?
MR KIRBY: I think the Secretary's referring actually to a strike that we saw happen yesterday
on a field hospital in the Rif Dimashq Governorate. I'm not exactly positive that that's what
he was referring to, but I think he was referring to actually one that was --
QUESTION: Not one in Aleppo?
MR KIRBY: I believe it was – I think it was – I think he – my guess is – I'm guessing here that
he was a bit mistaken on location and referring to one --
...
QUESTION: But you don't have certainty, though?
MR KIRBY: I don't. Best I got, best information I got, is that he was most likely referring to
one yesterday in this governorate, but it could just be an honest mistake.
QUESTION: If we could – if we can nail that down with certainty what he was talking about --
MR KIRBY: I'll do the best I can, Matt.
...
This goes on for a while. But there was no hospital attack in Rif Dimashq nor in Aleppo. Later on
DoS spokesman Kirby basically admits that Kerry lied: "I can't corroborate that."
It also turns out that Kerry has no evidence for any war crimes and no plausible way to initiate
any official international procedure about such. And for what? To bully Russia? Fat chance, that
would be a hopeless endeavor and Kerry should know that.
Kerry is desperate. He completely lost the plot on Syria. Russia is in the lead and will do whatever
needs to be done. The Obama administration has, apart from starting a World War, no longer any way
to significantly influence that.
Kerry is only one tool of the Obama administration. Later that day the US Director of National Intelligence,
James Clapper, made other
accusations against Russia:
The US Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directedthe recent
compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations.
The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by
the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed
efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process.
Such activity is not new to Moscow-the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across
Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope
and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized
these activities.
Translation: "WE DO NOT KNOW at all ("we are confident", "we believe", "directed") who did these
hacks and WE DO NOT HAVE the slightest evidence ("consistent with","based on the scope and sensitivity")
that Russia is involved, so let me throw some chaff and try to bamboozle you all."
The former British ambassador Craig Murray calls it
a
blatant neocon lie. It was obviously the DNC that manipulated the US election by, contrary to
its mandate, promoting Clinton over Sanders. The hackers only proved that. It is also easy to see
why these accusations are made now. Murray:
That the Obama administration has made a formal accusation of Russia based on no evidence is,
on one level, astonishing. But it is motivated by desperation. WikiLeaks have already announced
that they have a huge cache of other material relating to Hillary's shenanigans. The White House
is simply seeking to discredit it in advance by a completely false association with Russian intelligence.
The Obama administration is losing it. On Syria as well as on the election it can no longer assert
its will. Trump, despite all dirty boy's club talk he may do, has a significant chance to catch the
presidency. He (-44%) and Clinton (-41%) are
more disliked by the U.S electorate, than Putin (-38%). Any solution in Syria will be more in
Russia's than the Washington's favor.
Such desperation can be dangerous. Kerry is gasping at straws when he lies about Russia. The president
and his colleagues at the Pentagon and the CIA have more kinetic means to express themselves. Could
they order up something really stupid?
"... At bottom, the success of despotic governments and Big Brother societies hinges upon a certain
number of political, financial, and cultural developments. The first of which is an unwillingness in
the general populace to secure and defend their own freedoms, making them completely reliant on corrupt
establishment leadership. For totalitarianism to take hold, the masses must not only neglect the plight
of their country, and the plight of others, but also be completely uninformed of the inherent indirect
threats to their personal safety. ..."
"... The prevalence of apathy and ignorance sets the stage for the slow and highly deliberate process
of centralization. ..."
"... People who are easily frightened are easily dominated. This is not just a law of political
will, but a law of nature. Many wrongly assume that a tyrant's power comes purely from the application
of force. In fact, despotic regimes that rely solely on extreme violence are often very unsuccessful,
and easily overthrown. ..."
"... They instill apprehension in the public; a fear of the unknown, or a fear of the possible consequences
for standing against the state. They let our imaginations run wild until we see death around every corner,
whether it's actually there or not. When the masses are so blinded by the fear of reprisal that they
forget their fear of slavery, and take no action whatsoever to undo it, then they have been sufficiently
culled. ..."
"... The bread and circus lifestyle of the average westerner alone is enough to distract us from
connecting with each other in any meaningful fashion, but people still sometimes find ways to seek out
organized forms of activism. ..."
"... In more advanced forms of despotism, even fake organizations are disbanded. Curfews are enforced.
Normal communications are diminished or monitored. Compulsory paperwork is required. Checkpoints are
instituted. Free speech is punished. Existing groups are influenced to distrust each other or to disintegrate
entirely out of dread of being discovered. All of these measures are taken by tyrants primarily to prevent
ANY citizens from gathering and finding mutual support. People who work together and organize of their
own volition are unpredictable, and therefore, a potential risk to the state. ..."
"... Destitution leads not just to hunger, but also to crime (private and government). Crime leads
to anger, hatred, and fear. Fear leads to desperation. Desperation leads to the acceptance of anything
resembling a solution, even despotism. ..."
"... Autocracies pretend to cut through the dilemmas of economic dysfunction (usually while demanding
liberties be relinquished), however, behind the scenes they actually seek to maintain a proscribed level
of indigence and deprivation. The constant peril of homelessness and starvation keeps the masses thoroughly
distracted from such things as protest or dissent, while simultaneously chaining them to the idea that
their only chance is to cling to the very government out to end them. ..."
"... When law enforcement officials are no longer servants of the people, but agents of a government
concerned only with its own supremacy, serious crises emerge. Checks and balances are removed. The guidelines
that once reigned in police disappear, and suddenly, a philosophy of superiority emerges; an arrogant
exclusivity that breeds separation between law enforcement and the rest of the public. Finally, police
no longer see themselves as protectors of citizens, but prison guards out to keep us subdued and docile.
..."
"... Tyrants are generally men who have squelched their own consciences. They have no reservations
in using any means at their disposal to wipe out opposition. But, in the early stages of their ascent
to power, they must give the populace a reason for their ruthlessness, or risk being exposed, and instigating
even more dissent. The propaganda machine thus goes into overdrive, and any person or group that dares
to question the authority or the validity of the state is demonized in the minds of the masses. ..."
"... Tyrannical power structures cannot function without scapegoats. There must always be an elusive
boogie man under the bed of every citizen, otherwise, those citizens may turn their attention, and their
anger, towards the real culprit behind their troubles. By scapegoating stewards of the truth, such governments
are able to kill two birds with one stone. ..."
"... Citizen spying is almost always branded as a civic duty; an act of heroism and bravery. Citizen
spies are offered accolades and awards, and showered with praise from the upper echelons of their communities.
..."
"... Tyrannies are less concerned with dominating how we live, so much as dominating how we think
..."
"... Lies become "necessary" in protecting the safety of the state. War becomes a tool for "peace".
Torture becomes an ugly but "useful" method for gleaning important information. Police brutality is
sold as a "natural reaction" to increased crime. Rendition becomes normal, but only for those labeled
as "terrorists". Assassination is justified as a means for "saving lives". Genocide is done discretely,
but most everyone knows it is taking place. They simply don't discuss it. ..."
As we look back on the horrors of the dictatorships and autocracies of the past, one particular
question consistently arises; how was it possible for the common men of these eras to NOT notice
what was happening around them? How could they have stood as statues unaware or uncaring as their
cultures were overrun by fascism, communism, collectivism, and elitism? Of course, we have the advantage
of hindsight, and are able to research and examine the misdeeds of the past at our leisure. Unfortunately,
such hindsight does not necessarily shield us from the long cast shadow of tyranny in our own day.
For that, the increasingly uncommon gift of foresight is required…
At bottom, the success of despotic governments and Big Brother societies hinges upon a certain
number of political, financial, and cultural developments. The first of which is an unwillingness
in the general populace to secure and defend their own freedoms, making them completely reliant on
corrupt establishment leadership. For totalitarianism to take hold, the masses must not only neglect
the plight of their country, and the plight of others, but also be completely uninformed of the inherent
indirect threats to their personal safety. They must abandon all responsibility for their destinies,
and lose all respect for their own humanity. They must, indeed, become domesticated and mindless
herd animals without regard for anything except their fleeting momentary desires for entertainment
and short term survival. For a lumbering bloodthirsty behemoth to actually sneak up on you, you have
to be pretty damnably oblivious.
The prevalence of apathy and ignorance sets the stage for the slow and highly deliberate process
of centralization. Once dishonest governments accomplish an atmosphere of inaction and condition
a sense of frailty within the citizenry, the sky is truly the limit. However, a murderous power-monger's
day is never quite done. In my recent article
'The
Essential Rules of Liberty' we explored the fundamentally unassailable actions and mental preparations
required to ensure the continuance of a free society. In this article, let's examine the frequently
wielded tools of tyrants in their invariably insane quests for total control…
People who are easily frightened are easily dominated. This is not just a law of political
will, but a law of nature. Many wrongly assume that a tyrant's power comes purely from the application
of force. In fact, despotic regimes that rely solely on extreme violence are often very unsuccessful,
and easily overthrown. Brute strength is calculable. It can be analyzed, and thus, eventually
confronted and defeated.
Thriving tyrants instead utilize not just harm, but the imminent THREAT of harm. They instill
apprehension in the public; a fear of the unknown, or a fear of the possible consequences for
standing against the state. They let our imaginations run wild until we see death around every
corner, whether it's actually there or not. When the masses are so blinded by the fear of reprisal
that they forget their fear of slavery, and take no action whatsoever to undo it, then they have
been sufficiently culled.
In other cases, our fear is evoked and directed towards engineered enemies. Another race, another
religion, another political ideology, a "hidden" and ominous villain created out of thin air.
Autocrats assert that we "need them" in order to remain safe and secure from these illusory monsters
bent on our destruction. As always, this development is followed by the claim that all steps taken,
even those that dissolve our freedoms, are "for the greater good". Frightened people tend to shirk
their sense of independence and run towards the comfort of the collective, even if that collective
is built on immoral and unconscionable foundations. Once a society takes on a hive-mind mentality
almost any evil can be rationalized, and any injustice against the individual is simply overlooked
for the sake of the group.
In the past, elitist governments would often legislate and enforce severe penalties for public
gatherings, because defusing the ability of the citizenry to organize or to communicate was paramount
to control. In our technological era, such isolation is still used, but in far more advanced forms.
The bread and circus lifestyle of the average westerner alone is enough to distract us from connecting
with each other in any meaningful fashion, but people still sometimes find ways to seek out organized
forms of activism.
Through co-option, modern day tyrant's can direct and manipulate opposition movements. By creating
and administrating groups which oppose each other, elites can then micromanage all aspects of
a nation on the verge of revolution. These "false paradigms" give us the illusion of proactive
organization, and the false hope of changing the system, while at the same time preventing us
from seeking understanding in one another. All our energies are then muted and dispersed into
meaningless battles over "left and right", or "Democrat versus Republican", for example. Only
movements that cast aside such empty labels and concern themselves with the ultimate truth of
their country, regardless of what that truth might reveal, are able to enact real solutions to
the disasters wrought by tyranny.
In more advanced forms of despotism, even fake organizations are disbanded. Curfews are
enforced. Normal communications are diminished or monitored. Compulsory paperwork is required.
Checkpoints are instituted. Free speech is punished. Existing groups are influenced to distrust
each other or to disintegrate entirely out of dread of being discovered. All of these measures
are taken by tyrants primarily to prevent ANY citizens from gathering and finding mutual support.
People who work together and organize of their own volition are unpredictable, and therefore,
a potential risk to the state.
You'll find in nearly every instance of cultural descent into autocracy, the offending government
gained favor after the onset of economic collapse. Make the necessities of root survival an uncertainty,
and people without knowledge of self sustainability and without solid core principles will gladly
hand over their freedom, even for mere scraps from the tables of the same men who unleashed famine
upon them. Financial calamities are not dangerous because of the poverty they leave in their wake;
they are dangerous because of the doors to malevolence that they leave open.
Destitution leads not just to hunger, but also to crime (private and government). Crime
leads to anger, hatred, and fear. Fear leads to desperation. Desperation leads to the acceptance
of anything resembling a solution, even despotism.
Autocracies pretend to cut through the dilemmas of economic dysfunction (usually while
demanding liberties be relinquished), however, behind the scenes they actually seek to maintain
a proscribed level of indigence and deprivation. The constant peril of homelessness and starvation
keeps the masses thoroughly distracted from such things as protest or dissent, while simultaneously
chaining them to the idea that their only chance is to cling to the very government out to end
them.
This is the main symptom often associated with totalitarianism. So much so that our preconceived
notions of what a fascist government looks like prevent us from seeing other forms of tyranny
right under our noses. Some Americans believe that if the jackbooted thugs are not knocking on
every door, then we MUST still live in a free country. Obviously, this is a rather naďve position.
Admittedly, though, goon squads and secret police do eventually become prominent in every failed
nation, usually while the public is mesmerized by visions of war, depression, hyperinflation,
terrorism, etc.
When law enforcement officials are no longer servants of the people, but agents of a government
concerned only with its own supremacy, serious crises emerge. Checks and balances are removed.
The guidelines that once reigned in police disappear, and suddenly, a philosophy of superiority
emerges; an arrogant exclusivity that breeds separation between law enforcement and the rest of
the public. Finally, police no longer see themselves as protectors of citizens, but prison guards
out to keep us subdued and docile.
As tyranny grows, this behavior is encouraged. Good men are filtered out of the system, and
small (minded and hearted) men are promoted.
At its pinnacle, a police state will hide the identities of most of its agents and officers,
behind masks or behind red tape, because their crimes in the name of the state become so numerous
and so sadistic that personal vengeance on the part of their victims will become a daily concern.
Tyrants are generally men who have squelched their own consciences. They have no reservations
in using any means at their disposal to wipe out opposition. But, in the early stages of their
ascent to power, they must give the populace a reason for their ruthlessness, or risk being exposed,
and instigating even more dissent. The propaganda machine thus goes into overdrive, and any person
or group that dares to question the authority or the validity of the state is demonized in the
minds of the masses.
All disasters, all violent crimes, all the ills of the world, are hoisted upon the shoulders
of activist groups and political rivals. They are falsely associated with fringe elements already
disliked by society (racists, terrorists, etc). A bogus consensus is created through puppet media
in an attempt to make the public believe that "everyone else" must have the same exact views,
and those who express contrary positions must be "crazy", or "extremist". Events are even engineered
by the corrupt system and pinned on those demanding transparency and liberty. The goal is to drive
anti-totalitarian organizations into self censorship. That is to say, instead of silencing them
directly, the state causes activists to silence themselves.
Tyrannical power structures cannot function without scapegoats. There must always be an
elusive boogie man under the bed of every citizen, otherwise, those citizens may turn their attention,
and their anger, towards the real culprit behind their troubles. By scapegoating stewards of the
truth, such governments are able to kill two birds with one stone.
Ultimately, the life of a totalitarian government is not prolonged by the government itself,
but by the very people it subjugates. Citizen spies are the glue of any police state, and our
propensity for sticking our noses into other peoples business is highly valued by Big Brother
bureaucracies around the globe.
There are a number of reasons why people participate in this repulsive activity. Some are addicted
to the feeling of being a part of the collective, and "service" to this collective, sadly, is
the only way they are able to give their pathetic lives meaning. Some are vindictive, cold, and
soulless, and actually get enjoyment from ruining others. And still, like elites, some long for
power, even petty power, and are willing to do anything to fulfill their vile need to dictate
the destinies of perfect strangers.
Citizen spying is almost always branded as a civic duty; an act of heroism and bravery.
Citizen spies are offered accolades and awards, and showered with praise from the upper echelons
of their communities. People who lean towards citizen spying are often outwardly and inwardly
unimpressive; physically and mentally inept. For the average moral and emotional weakling with
persistent feelings of inadequacy, the allure of finally being given fifteen minutes of fame and
a hero's status (even if that status is based on a lie) is simply too much to resist. They begin
to see "extremists" and "terrorists" everywhere. Soon, people afraid of open ears everywhere start
to watch what they say at the supermarket, in their own backyards, or even to family members.
Free speech is effectively neutralized.
In the end, it is not enough for a government fueled by the putrid sludge of iniquity to lord
over us. At some point, it must also influence us to forsake our most valued principles. Tyrannies
are less concerned with dominating how we live, so much as dominating how we think. If they
can mold our very morality, they can exist unopposed indefinitely. Of course, the elements of
conscience are inborn, and not subject to environmental duress as long as a man is self aware.
However, conscience can be manipulated if a person has no sense of identity, and has never put
in the effort to explore his own strengths and failings. There are many people like this in America
today.
Lies become "necessary" in protecting the safety of the state. War becomes a tool for "peace".
Torture becomes an ugly but "useful" method for gleaning important information. Police brutality
is sold as a "natural reaction" to increased crime. Rendition becomes normal, but only for those
labeled as "terrorists". Assassination is justified as a means for "saving lives". Genocide is
done discretely, but most everyone knows it is taking place. They simply don't discuss it.
All tyrannical systems depend on the apathy and moral relativism of the inhabitants within
their borders. Without the cooperation of the public, these systems cannot function. The real
question is, how many of the above steps will be taken before we finally refuse to conform? At
what point will each man and woman decide to break free from the dark path blazed before us and
take measures to ensure their independence? Who will have the courage to develop their own communities,
their own alternative economies, their own organizations for mutual defense outside of establishment
constructs, and who will break under the pressure to bow like cowards? How many will hold the
line, and how many will flee?
For every American, for every human being across the planet who chooses to stand immovable
in the face of the very worst in mankind, we come that much closer to breathing life once again
into the very best in us all.
"... First, Clinton's neoliberalism is so bone deep that she refers to Medicare as a "single market" rather than "single payer"; ..."
"... Clinton frames solutions exclusively ..."
"... Policy Sciences ..."
"... Stalin spent his early days in a seminary. Masters of broken promises. I'm more interested in Clinton's Chinese connections. Probably tied through JP Morgan. The Chinese are very straightforward in their, dare I say, inscrutible way. The ministers are the ministers, and the palace is the palace. ..."
"... SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I don't feel particularly courageous. I mean, if we're going to be an effective, efficient economy, we need to have all part of that engine running well, and that includes Wall Street and Main Street. ..."
"... Because she wont pay for quality speechwriters or coaching. Because she is a shyster, cheapskate and a fraud. They hired the most inept IT company to 'mange' their office server who then (in a further fit of cheapskate stupidity) hired an inept IT client manager who then (in a further fit of cheapskate stupidity) asked Reddit for a solution. ..."
"... One can say a lot of justifiable bad things about Ronald Reagan, but, he had competent advisors and he used them! With Hillary, Even if she knows she has accessed the best advice on the planet her instinct it to not trust it because "she knows better" and she absolutely will not tolerate dissent. Left to her own devices, she simply copies other people's thinking/ homework instead of building her own ideas with it. ..."
"... What surprises me is that Goldmans paid her for these speeches, you know? Hillary C typically pays "the audience" to listen to, and come to her speeches. You know? You know! ..."
"... I heard Hillary speak in summer '92, when Bill was running for Prez. She. was. amazing. No joke. Great speech, great ideas, great points. I thought then she should be the candidate. But there was in her speech just a tiny undercurrent of "the ends justify the means." i.e. 'we need to get lots of money so we can do good things.' Fast forward 20+ years. Seems to me that for the Clintons the "means" (getting lots of money) has become the end in itself. Reassuring Wall St. is one method for getting money – large, large amounts of money. ..."
"... A fine illustration of the maxim that "crime makes you stupid." ..."
"... in that context ..."
"... So I guess the moral of the story is (a) more deterioration, this time from 2008 to 2016, and (b) Clinton can actually make a good decision, but only when forced to by a catastrophe that will impact her personally. Whether she'll be able to rise to the occasion if elected is an open question, but this post argues not. ..."
"... Bingo! Think about it: She was speaking to a group of people whose time is "valued" at 100's if not 1,000's of dollars per hour. She took up their "valuable" time but provided nothing except politics-as-usual blather tailored to that particular audience. Yet she was paid $225k for a single speech… ..."
"... Hillary is a remarkably inarticulate person, which calls into question her intellectual fitness for the job (amidst many other questions, of course). I entirely agree with your depiction of her speeches as mindless drivel. ..."
"... Not to otherwise compare them, but Bush I's inarticulateness made him seem a buffoon, and that was not the case, either. ..."
"... Matt Tiabbi, Elizabeth Warren, Benie Sanders, Noam Chompsky–all those used to seem like bastions of integrity have, thanks to Hillary, been revealed as slimy little Weasels who should henceforth be completely disregarded. I'd have to thank Hillary for pulling back the nlindets on that; if not for this election I might have been still foolishly listening to these people. ..."
"... What scares me most about Clinton is her belligerence towards Russia and clamoring for a no-fly zone in Syria. The no-fly zone will mean war with Russia. If only Clinton were saying this, we might be safe, but the entire Washington deep state seems to be of one mind in favor of a war. During the cold war this would have been inconceivable; everyone understood a nuclear war must not be allowed. This is no longer true and it is terrifying. Every war game the pentagon used to simulate a war with the U.S.S.R. escalated into an all out nuclear war. What is the "plan B" Obama is pursuing in Syria? ..."
"... The current fear/fever over nuclear war with Russia requires madness in the Kremlin - of which there is no evidence. Our Rulers are depending on Putin and his cohorts being the sane ones as rhetoric from the US and the West ratchets ever upwards. ..."
"... But then, the Kremlin is looking for any hint of sanity on US and NATO side and is finding little… ..."
"... Curtis LeMay tried to provoke a nuclear war with the Soviets in the 1950's. By and large, however, the American state understood a nuclear war was unwinnable and avoided such a possibility. A no-fly zone in Syria would start a war with Russia. William Polk, who participated in the Cuban missle crisis and U.S. nuclear war games, argues in this article ..."
"... both of which present a clinical assessment that Hillary suffers from Parkinson's. Seems like an elephant in the room. ..."
"... The absolute vacuousness of Clinton's remarks, coupled with her ease at neoliberal conventional wisdom, make it clear that Goldman's payments were nothing more (or less) than a $675,000 anticipatory "so no quid pro quo ..."
"... The leaked emails confirm - even though she herself never writes them, which is really odd, when you consider that Podesta is her Campaign Chair and close ally going back decades - that she is compulsively secretive, controlling, and resistant to admitting she's wrong. The chain of people talking about how to get her to admit she was wrong about Nancy Reagan and AIDS was particularly fascinating that way; she was flat out factually inaccurate, and it had the potential to do tremendous harm to her campaign with a key donor group, and it was apparently still a major task to persuade her to say "I made a mistake." ..."
"... basically, every real world policy problem is related to every other real world policy problem ..."
"... Most noticeable thing is her subservience to them like a fresh college grad afraid of his boss at his first job ..."
As readers know, WikiLeaks has
released transcripts
of the three speeches to Goldman Sachs that Clinton gave in 2013, and for which she was paid
the eyewatering sum of $675,000. (The link is to an email dated January 23, 2016, from Cllinton staffer
Tony Carrk , Clinton's research director, which pulls out
"noteworthy quotes" from the speeches. The speeches themselves are attachments to that email.)
Readers, I read them. All three of them. What surprises - and when I tell you I had to take a
little nap about halfway through, I'm not making it up! - is the utter mediocrity of Clinton's thought
and mode of expression[1]. Perhaps that explains Clinton's
otherwise inexplicable refusal to release them. And perhaps my sang froid is preternatural,
but I don't see a "smoking gun," unless forking over $675,000 for interminable volumes of shopworn
conventional wisdom be, in itself, such a gun. What can Goldman Sachs possibly have thought they
were paying for?
WikiLeaks has, however, done voters a favor - in these speeches, and in the DNC and Podesta email
releases generally - by giving us a foretaste of what a Clinton administration will be like, once
in power, not merely on policy (the "first 100 days"), but on how they will make decisions. I call
the speeches a "munitions dump," because the views she expresses in these speeches are bombs that
can be expected to explode as the Clinton administration progresses.
With that, let's contextualize and comment upon some quotes from the speeches
The Democrats Are the Party of Wall Street
Of course, you knew that, but it's nice to have the matter confirmed. This material was flagged
by Carrk (as none of the following material will have been). It's enormously prolix, but I decided
to cut only a few paragraphs. From
Clinton's second
Goldman speech at the AIMS Alternative Investments Symposium:
MR. O'NEILL: Let's come back to the US. Since 2008, there's been an awful lot of seismic activity
around Wall Street and the big banks and regulators and politicians.
Now, without going over how we got to where we are right now , what would be your
advice to the Wall Street community and the big banks as to the way forward with those two important
decisions?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I represented all of you for eight years. I had great relations and
worked so close together after 9/11 to rebuild downtown, and a lot of respect for the work you
do and the people who do it, but I do - I think that when we talk about the regulators and the
politicians, the economic consequences of bad decisions back in '08, you know, were devastating,
and they had repercussions throughout the world.
That was one of the reasons that I started traveling in February of '09, so people could, you
know, literally yell at me for the United States and our banking system causing this everywhere.
Now, that's an oversimplification we know, but it was the conventional wisdom [really?!].
And I think that there's a lot that could have been avoided in terms of both misunderstanding
and really politicizing [!] what happened with greater transparency, with greater openness on
all sides, you know, what happened, how did it happen, how do we prevent it from happening?
You guys help us figure it out and let's make sure that we do it right this time .
And I think that everybody was desperately trying to fend off the worst effects institutionally,
governmentally, and there just wasn't that opportunity to try to sort this out, and that
came later .
I mean, it's still happening, as you know. People are looking back and trying to, you know,
get compensation for bad mortgages and all the rest of it in some of the agreements that are being
reached.
There's nothing magic about regulations, too much is bad, too little is bad. How do you get
to the golden key, how do we figure out what works? And the people that know the industry
better than anybody are the people who work in the industry .
…
And we need banking. I mean, right now, there are so many places in our country where
the banks are not doing what they need to do because they're scared of regulations , they're
scared of the other shoe dropping, they're just plain scared, so credit is not flowing the way
it needs to to restart economic growth.
So people are, you know, a little - they're still uncertain, and they're uncertain both because
they don't know what might come next in terms of regulations, but they're also uncertain because
of changes in a global economy that we're only beginning to take hold of.
So first and foremost, more transparency, more openness, you know, trying to figure out,
we're all in this together , how we keep this incredible economic engine in this country
going. And this [finance] is, you know, the nerves, the
spinal column.
And with political people, again, I would say the same thing, you know, there was a lot
of complaining about Dodd-Frank, but there was also a need to do something because for political
reasons , if you were an elected member of Congress and people in your constituency were
losing jobs and shutting businesses and everybody in the press is saying it's all the fault of
Wall Street, you can't sit idly by and do nothing, but what you do is really important.
And I think the jury is still out on that because it was very difficult to sort of sort through
it all.
And, of course, I don't, you know, I know that banks and others were worried about continued
liability [oh, really?] and other problems down the road, so it would be better if we could
have had a more open exchange about what we needed to do to fix what had broken and then try to
make sure it didn't happen again, but we will keep working on it.
MR. O'NEILL: By the way, we really did appreciate when you were the senator from New York and
your continued involvement in the issues (inaudible) to be courageous in some respects to associated
with Wall Street and this environment. Thank you very much.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I don't feel particularly courageous. I mean, if we're going to be
an effective, efficient economy, we need to have all part of that engine running well, and that
includes Wall Street and Main Street.
And there's a big disconnect and a lot of confusion right now. So I'm not interested in,
you know, turning the clock back or pointing fingers , but I am interested in trying to
figure out how we come together to chart a better way forward and one that will restore confidence
in, you know, small and medium-size businesses and consumers and begin to chip away at the unemployment
rate [five years into the recession!].
So it's something that I, you know, if you're a realist, you know that people have different
roles to play in politics, economics, and this is an important role, but I do think that there
has to be an understanding of how what happens here on Wall Street has such broad consequences
not just for the domestic but the global economy, so more thought has to be given to the process
and transactions and regulations so that we don't kill or maim what works, but we concentrate
on the most effective way of moving forward with the brainpower and the financial power
that exists here.
"Moving forward." And not looking back. (It would be nice to know what "continued liability"
the banks were worried about;
accounting
control fraud ? Maybe somebody could ask Clinton.) Again, I call your attention to the weird
combination of certainty and mediocrity of it; readers, I am sure, can demolish the detail. What
this extended quotation does show is that Clinton and Obama are as one with respect to the
role of the finance sector. Politico describes Obama's famous meeting with the bankster CEOs:
Arrayed around a long mahogany table in the White House state dining room last week, the CEOs
of the most powerful financial institutions in the world offered several explanations for paying
high salaries to their employees - and, by extension, to themselves.
"These are complicated companies," one CEO said. Offered another: "We're competing for talent
on an international market.".
But President Barack Obama wasn't in a mood to hear them out. He stopped the conversation and
offered a blunt reminder of the public's reaction to such explanations. "Be careful how you make
those statements, gentlemen. The public isn't buying that.".
"My administration," the president added, "is the only thing between you and the pitchforks."
And he did! He did! Clinton, however, by calling the finance sector the "the nerves, the spinal
column" of the country, goes farther than Obama ever did.
So, from the governance perspective, we can expect the FIRE sector to dominate a Clinton administration,
and the Clinton administration to service it. The Democrats are the Party of Wall Street. The bomb
that could explode there is corrupt dealings with cronies (for which the Wikileaks material provides
plenty of leads).
Clinton Advocates a "Night Watchman" State
The next quotes are shorter, I swear! Here's a quote from
Clinton's third
Goldman speech (not flagged by Carrk, no doubt because hearing drivel like this is perfectly
normal in HillaryLand):
SECRETARY CLINTON: And I tell you, I see any society like a three-legged stool. You have to
have an active free market that gives people the chance to live out their dreams by their own
hard work and skills. You have to have a functioning, effective government that provides
the right balance of oversight and protection of freedom and privacy and liberty and all the rest
of it that goes with it . And you have to have an active civil society. Because there's
so much about America that is volunteerism and religious faith and family and community activities.
So you take one of those legs away, it's pretty hard to balance it. So you've got to get back
to getting the right balance.
Apparently, the provision
of public services is not within government's remit -- What are Social Security and Medicare?
"All the rest of it"? Not only that, who said the free market was the only way to "live
out their dreams"? Madison, Franklin, even Hamilton would have something to say about that! Finally,
which one of those legs is out of balance? Civil society? Some would advocate less religion in politics
rather than more, including many Democrats. The markets? Not at Goldman? Government? Too much militarization,
way too little concrete material benefits, so far as I'm concerned, but Clinton doesn't say, making
the "stool" metaphor vacuous.
From a governance perspective, we can expect Clinton's blind spot on government's role in provisioning
servies to continue. Watch for continued privatization efforts (perhaps aided by Silicon Valley).
On any infrastructure projects, watch for "public-private partnerships." The bomb that could explode
there is corrupt dealings with a different set of cronies (even if the FIRE sector does
have a finger in every pie).
Clinton's Views on Health Care Reflect Market Fundamentalism
MR. O'NEILL: [O]bviously the Affordable Care Act has been upheld by the supreme court. It's
clearly having limitation problems [I don't know what that means]. It's unsettling, people still
- the Republicans want to repeal it or defund it. So how do you get to the middle on that clash
of absolutes?
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, this is not the first time that we rolled out a big program with the
limitation problems [Clinton apparently does].
I was in the Senate when President Bush asked and signed legislation expanding Medicare benefits,
the Medicare Part D drug benefits. And people forget now that it was a very difficult implementation.
As a senator, my staff spent weeks working with people who were trying to sign up, because
it was in some sense even harder to manage because the population over 65, not the most computer-literate
group, and it was difficult. But, you know, people stuck with it, worked through it.
Now, this is on - it's on a different scale and it is more complex because it's trying to create
a market. In Medicare, you have a single market , you have, you know, the government
is increasing funding through government programs [sic] to provide people over 65 the drugs they
needed.
And there were a few variations that you could play out on it, but it was a much simpler market
than what the Affordable Care Act is aiming to set up.
Now, the way I look at this, Tim, is it's either going to work or it's not going to work.
First, Clinton's neoliberalism is so bone deep that she refers to Medicare as a "single market"
rather than "single payer"; but then
Clinton erases single payer whenever possible . Second, Clinton frames solutions exclusively
in terms of markets (and not the direct provision of services by government);
Obama does the same on health care in JAMA , simply erasing the possibility of single payer.
Third, rather than advocate a simple, rugged, and proven system like Canadian Medicare (single payer),
Clinton prefers to run an experiment ("it's either going to work or it's not going to work")
on the health of millions of people (and, I would urge, without their informed consent).
From a governance perspective, assume that if the Democrats propose
a "public option," it will be miserably inadequate. The bomb that could explode here is the ObamaCare
death spiral.
The Problems Are "Wicked," but Clinton Will Be Unable to Cope With Them
MR. BLANKFEIN: The next area which I think is actually literally closer to home but where American
lives have been at risk is the Middle East, I think is one topic. What seems to be the ambivalence
or the lack of a clear set of goals - maybe that ambivalence comes from not knowing what outcome
we want or who is our friend or what a better world is for the United States and of Syria, and
then ultimately on the Iranian side if you think of the Korean bomb as far away and just the Tehran
death spot, the Iranians are more calculated in a hotter area with - where does that go? And I
tell you, I couldn't - I couldn't myself tell - you know how we would like things to work out,
but it's not discernable to me what the policy of the United States is towards an outcome either
in Syria or where we get to in Iran.
MS. CLINTON: Well, part of it is it's a wicked problem , and it's a wicked
problem that is very hard to unpack in part because as you just said, Lloyd, it's not clear
what the outcome is going to be and how we could influence either that outcome or a different
outcome.
(I say "cope with" rather than "solve" for reasons that will become apparent.) Yes, Syria's bad,
as vividly shown by Blankfein's fumbling question, but I want to focus on the term "wicked problem,"
which comes from the the field of strategic planning, though it's also infiltrated
information technology
and management
theory . The concept originated in a famous paper by Horst W. J. Rittel and Melvin M. Webber
entitled: "Dilemmas in a General Theory of Planning" (PDF), Policy Sciences 4 (1973), 155-169.
I couldn't summarize the literature even if I had the time, but here is Rittel and Webber's introduction:
There are at least ten distinguishing properties of planning-type problems, i.e. wicked ones,
that planners had better be alert to and which we shall comment upon in turn. As you will see,
we are calling them "wicked" not because these properties are themselves ethically deplorable.
We use the term "wicked" in a meaning akin to that of "malignant" (in contrast to "benign") or
"vicious" (like a circle) or "tricky" (like a leprechaun) or "aggressive" (like a lion, in contrast
to the docility of a lamb). We do not mean to personify these properties of social systems by
implying malicious intent. But then, you may agree that it becomes morally objectionable for the
planner to treat a wicked problem as though it were a tame one, or to tame a wicked problem prematurely,
or to refuse to recognize the inherent wickedness of social problems.
And here is a list of Rittel and Webber's ten properties of a "wicked problem" (
and a critique ):
There is no definite formulation of a wicked problem Wicked problems have no stopping rule Solutions
to wicked problems are not true-or-false, but good-or-bad. There is no immediate and no ultimate
test of a solution to a wicked problem. Every solution to a wicked problem is a "one-shot operation";
because there is no opportunity to learn by trial-and-error, every attempt counts significantly.
Wicked problems do not have an enumerable (or an exhaustively describable) set of potential solutions,
nor is there a well-described set of permissible operations that may be incorporated into the
plan. Every wicked problem is essentially unique. Every wicked problem can be considered to be
a symptom of another [wicked] problem. The causes of a wicked problem can be explained in numerous
ways. The choice of explanation determines the nature of the problem's resolution. [With wicked
problems,] the planner has no right to be wrong.
Of course, there's plenty of controversy about all of this, but if you throw these properties
against the Syrian clusterf*ck, I think you'll see a good fit, and can probably come up with other
examples. My particular concern, however, is with property #3:
Solutions to wicked problems are not true-or-false, but good-or-bad
There are conventionalized criteria for objectively deciding whether the offered solution to
an equation or whether the proposed structural formula of a chemical compound is correct or false.
They can be independently checked by other qualified persons who are familiar with the established
criteria; and the answer will be normally unambiguous.
For wicked planning problems, there are no true or false answers. Normally, many parties are
equally equipped, interested, and/or entitled to judge the solutions, although none has the power
to set formal decision rules to determine correctness. Their judgments are likely to differ widely
to accord with their group or personal interests, their special value-sets, and their ideological
predilections. Their assessments of proposed solutions are expressed as "good" or "bad" or, more
likely, as "better or worse" or "satisfying" or "good enough."
(Today, we would call these "many parties" "stakeholders.") My concern is that a Clinton administration,
far from compromising - to be fair, Clinton does genuflect toward "compromise" elsewhere - will try
to make wicked planning problems more tractable by reducing the number of parties to policy decisions.
That is, exactly, what "irredeemables" implies[2], which is unfortunate, especially when the cast
out amount to well over a third of the population. The same tendencies were also visible in the Clinton
campaigns approach to Sanders and Sanders supporters, and the general strategy of bringing the Blame
Cannons to bear on those who demonstrate insufficient fealty.
From a governance perspective, watch for many more executive orders acceptable to neither right
nor left, and plenty of decisions taken in secret. The bomb that could explode here is the
legitimacy of a Clinton administration, depending on the parties removed from the policy discussion,
and the nature of the decision taken.
Conclusion
I don't think volatility will decrease on November 8, should Clinton be elected and take office;
if anything, it will increase. A ruling party in thrall to finance, intent on treating government
functions as opportunities for looting by cronies, blinded by neoliberal ideology and hence incapable
of providing truly universal health care, and whose approach to problems of conflict in values is
to demonize and exclude the opposition is a recipe for continued crisis.
NOTES
[1]
Matt Taibbi takes the view that "Speaking to bankers and masters of the corporate universe, she
came off as relaxed, self-doubting, reflective, honest, philosophical rather than political, and
unafraid to admit she lacked all the answers." I don't buy it. It all read like the same old Clinton
to me, and I've read a lot of Clinton (see, e.g.,
here ,
here ,
here ,
here ,
here , and
here ).
[2] One is irresistibly reminded of Stalin's "No man, no problem," although some consider Stalin's
methods to be unsound. oho
October 17, 2016 at 1:14 pm
I had never read this article before. Near perfect diagnosis and even more relevant today than
it was then. For everyone's benefit, the central thesis:
Typically, these countries are in a desperate economic situation for one simple reason-the
powerful elites within them overreached in good times and took too many risks. Emerging-market
governments and their private-sector allies commonly form a tight-knit-and, most of the time,
genteel-oligarchy, running the country rather like a profit-seeking company in which they are
the controlling shareholders.
…
Of course, the U.S. is unique. And just as we have the world's most advanced economy, military,
and technology, we also have its most advanced oligarchy.
In a primitive political system, power is transmitted through violence, or the threat of
violence: military coups, private militias, and so on. In a less primitive system more typical
of emerging markets, power is transmitted via money: bribes, kickbacks, and offshore bank accounts.
Although lobbying and campaign contributions certainly play major roles in the American political
system, old-fashioned corruption-envelopes stuffed with $100 bills-is probably a sideshow today,
Jack Abramoff notwithstanding.
Instead, the American financial industry gained political power by amassing a kind of
cultural capital-a belief system. Once, perhaps, what was good for General Motors was good
for the country. Over the past decade, the attitude took hold that what was good for Wall Street
was good for the country. The banking-and-securities industry has become one of the top contributors
to political campaigns, but at the peak of its influence, it did not have to buy favors the
way, for example, the tobacco companies or military contractors might have to. Instead, it
benefited from the fact that Washington insiders already believed that large financial institutions
and free-flowing capital markets were crucial to America's position in the world.
A hypothesis (at least for "Main Street") proven true between 2009 and 2016:
Emerging-market countries have only a precarious hold on wealth, and are weaklings globally.
When they get into trouble, they quite literally run out of money -- or at least out of foreign
currency, without which they cannot survive. They must make difficult decisions; ultimately,
aggressive action is baked into the cake. But the U.S., of course, is the world's most powerful
nation, rich beyond measure, and blessed with the exorbitant privilege of paying its foreign
debts in its own currency, which it can print. As a result, it could very well stumble along
for years-as Japan did during its lost decade-never summoning the courage to do what it needs
to do, and never really recovering.
Lastly, the "bleak" scenario from 2009 that today looks about a decade too early, but could
with minor tuning (Southern instead of Eastern Europe, for example) end up hitting in a big way:
It goes like this: the global economy continues to deteriorate, the banking system in east-central
Europe collapses, and-because eastern Europe's banks are mostly owned by western European banks-justifiable
fears of government insolvency spread throughout the Continent. Creditors take further hits
and confidence falls further. The Asian economies that export manufactured goods are devastated,
and the commodity producers in Latin America and Africa are not much better off. A dramatic
worsening of the global environment forces the U.S. economy, already staggering, down onto
both knees. The baseline growth rates used in the administration's current budget are increasingly
seen as unrealistic, and the rosy "stress scenario" that the U.S. Treasury is currently using
to evaluate banks' balance sheets becomes a source of great embarrassment.
…
The conventional wisdom among the elite is still that the current slump "cannot be as
bad as the Great Depression." This view is wrong. What we face now could, in fact, be worse
than the Great Depression-because the world is now so much more interconnected and because
the banking sector is now so big. We face a synchronized downturn in almost all countries,
a weakening of confidence among individuals and firms, and major problems for government finances.
If our leadership wakes up to the potential consequences, we may yet see dramatic action on
the banking system and a breaking of the old elite. Let us hope it is not then too late.
That's a good reminder to us at NC that not all our readers have been with us since 2009 and
may not be familiar with the great financial crash and subsequent events. I remember reading the
Johnson article when it came out. And now, almost eight years later…
There's a reason that there's a "Banana Republic" category. Every time I read an article about
the political economy of a second- or third-world country I look for how it applies to this country,
and much of the time, it does, particularly on corruption.
We truly must consider the possibility Goldman wrote the 3 speeches, then paid Hillary to give
them.
Next, leak them to Wiki. Everything in them is pretty close to pure fiction – but it is neolib
banker fiction. Just makes it all seem more real when they do things this way.
Yike's, I'm turning into a crazy conspiracy theorist.
Don't fall for the 'status quo's' language Jedi mind trick crazyboy. I like to call myself
a "sane conspiracy theorist." You can too!
As for H Clinton's 'slavish' adherence to the Bankster Ethos; in psychology, there is the "Stockholm
Syndrome." Here, H Clinton displays the markers of "Wall Street Syndrome."
Ugh. Mindless drivel. Talking points provided by Wall St itself would sound identical.
Then there's this: She did NOT represent Wall St and the Banks while a Senator. They cannot
vote. They are not people. They are not citizens. She represented the PEOPLE. The PEOPLE that
can VOTE. You cannot represent a nonexistent entity like a corporation as an ELECTED official.
You can ONLY represent those who actually can, or do, vote. End of story.
I saw a video in high school years back that mentioned a specific congressional ruling that
gave Congress the equivalent to individual rights. I swear it was also in the 30s but I cannot
recall and have never been able to find what it was I saw. Do you have any insight here?
Historical Background and Legal Basis of the Federal Register / CFR Publications System
Why was the Federal Register System Established ?
New Deal legislation of the 1930's delegated responsibility from Congress to agencies to
regulate complex social and economic issues
Citizens needed access to new regulations to know their effect in advance
Agencies and Citizens needed a centralized filing and publication system to keep track of rules
Courts began to rule on "secret law" as a violation of right to due process under the Constitution
But don't forget. She is the most qualified candidate… EVER . Remind me again
how this species was able to bring three stranded Apollo 13 astronauts back from the abyss, the
vacuum of space with some tape and tubing.
This is like watching a cheap used car lot advertisement where the owner delivers obviously
false platitudes as the store and cars collapse, break, and burst into flames behind them.
Stalin spent his early days in a seminary. Masters of broken promises. I'm more interested
in Clinton's Chinese connections. Probably tied through JP Morgan. The Chinese are very straightforward
in their, dare I say, inscrutible way. The ministers are the ministers, and the palace is
the palace.
The show is disappointing, the debaters play at talking nuclear policy, but have *nothing*
to say about Saudi Arabia's new arsenal.
When politicos talk nuclear, they only mean to allege a threat to Israel, blame Russia, or
fear-monger the North Koreans.
We're in the loop, but only the quietest whispers of the conflict in Pakistan are available.
It sounds pretty serious, but there is only interest in attacking inconvenient Arabs.
On Trump, what an interesting study in communications. The no man you speak of. Even himself
caught between his own insincerity towards higher purpose and his own ego as 'the establishment'
turns on him.
The proles of his support are truely a silent majority. The Republicans promised us Reagan
for twenty years, and it's finally the quasi-Democrat Trump who delivers.
> This is like watching a cheap used car lot advertisement where the owner delivers obviously
false platitudes as the store and cars collapse, break, and burst into flames behind them.
+100
With a wall of American flags waving in the background as the smoke and flames rise.
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I don't feel particularly courageous. I mean, if we're going to
be an effective, efficient economy, we need to have all part of that engine running well, and
that includes Wall Street and Main Street.
this all reads like a cokehead's flow of consciousness on some ethereal topic with no intellectual
content on the matter to express. I would have said extemporaneous, but you know it was all scripted,
so that's even worse.
PHOTOJOURNALIST
"Do you know what the man is saying? Do you? This is dialectics.
It's very simple dialectics. One through nine, no maybes, no
supposes, no fractions - you can't travel in space, you can't go out
into space, you know, without, like, you know, with fractions - what
are you going to land on, one quarter, three-eighths - what are you
going to do when you go from here to Venus or something - that's
dialectic physics, OK? Dialectic logic is there's only love and hate, you
either love somebody or you hate them."
"Da5id's voice is deep and placid, with no trace of stress. The syllables roll off his tongue
like drool. As Hiro walks down the hallway he can hear Da5id talking all the way. 'i ge en i ge
en nu ge en nu ge en us sa tu ra lu ra ze em men….'" –Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
Completely agree. When I first read excerpts from her speeches, I was appalled at the constant
use of "you know" peppering most of her sentences. To me, people who constantly bifurcate sentences
with "you know" are simply blathering. They usually don't have any in-depth knowledge of the subject
matter on which they are opining. Compare Hillary being asked to comment on a subject with someone
such as Michael Hudson or Bill Black commenting on a subject and she simply sounds illiterate.
I have this feeling that her educational record is based on an ability to memorize and parrot
back answers rather than someone who can reach a conclusion by examining multiple concepts.
Here's what I don't understand: The lady (and her husband) have LOADS of money. Yet this is
the best that she can do?
Really?
Heck, if I had half the Clintons' money, I'd be hiring the BEST speechwriters, acting coaches,
and fashion consultants on the planet. And I'd be taking their advice and RUNNING with it. Sheesh.
Some people have more money than sense.
Because she wont pay for quality speechwriters or coaching. Because she is a shyster, cheapskate
and a fraud. They hired the most inept IT company to 'mange' their office server who then (in
a further fit of cheapskate stupidity) hired an inept IT client manager who then (in a further
fit of cheapskate stupidity) asked Reddit for a solution.
Its in the culture: Podesta does it, Blumenthal does it
And now they blame the Russians!!!! Imagine the lunacy within the white house if this fool
is elected.
I think she is just not that smart. Maybe intelligent but not flexible enough to do much with
it.
Smart people seek the advice of even smarter people and knowing that experts disagree, they
make sure that there is dissent on the advisory team. Then they make up their mind.
One can say a lot of justifiable bad things about Ronald Reagan, but, he had competent
advisors and he used them! With Hillary, Even if she knows she has accessed the best advice on
the planet her instinct it to not trust it because "she knows better" and she absolutely will
not tolerate dissent. Left to her own devices, she simply copies other people's thinking/ homework
instead of building her own ideas with it.
I don't think so. The "you know" has a name, it's called a "verbal tick" and is one of the
first things that is attacked when one learns how to speak publicly. Verbal ticks come in many
forms, the "ums" for example, or repeating the last few words you just said, over and over again.
The brain is complex. The various parts of the brain needed for speech; cognition, vocabulary,
and vocalizations, actually have difficulty synchronizing. The vocalization part tends to be faster
than the rest of the brain and can spit out words faster than the person can put them together.
As a result, the "buffer" if you will runs empty, and the speech part of the brains simply fills
in the gaps with random gibberish.
You can train yourself out of this habit of course – but it's something that takes practice.
So I take HRC's "you know" as evidence that these are unscripted speeches and is directly improvising.
How come her responses during the debates are not peppered with these verbal ticks. At least,
I don't recall her saying you know so many times. Isn't she improvising then?
As Lambert said, HRC doesn't do unscripted. The email leaks even sends us evidence that her
interviews were scripted and town hall events were carful staged. Even sidestepping that however,
dealing with verbal ticks is not all that difficult with a bit of practice and self-awareness.
"You know" is an insidious variation on "like" and "andum", the latter two being bias neutral
forms of mental vapor lock of tbe speech center pausing for higher level intellectual processes
to refill the speech centers tapped out RAM.
The "you know" variant is an end run on the listener's cognitive functions logic filters. Is
essence appropriating a claim to the listener.
I detest "you knows" immediately with "no i dont know, please explain."
The same with "they say" i will always ask "who are they?"
I think this is important to fo do to ppl for no ofher reason thanto nake them think critically
even if it is a fleeting annoyance.
Back on HRC, i have maintai we that many people overrate her intellectual grasp. Personally
I think she is a hea ily cosched parrot. "The US has achieved energy independence"…. TILT. Just
because you state things smugly doesnt mean its reality.
I think what I call the lacunae words are really revealing in people's speech. When she says
"you know" she is emphasizing that she and the listener both know what she is "talking around."
Shared context as a form of almost - encryption, you could say. "This" rather than '"finance"
Here rather than at Goldman.I don't know what you'd call it exactly- free floating referent? A
habit, methinks, of avoiding being quoted or pinned down. It reminds me of the leaked emails…everyone
is very careful to talk around things and they can because they all know what they are talking
about. Hillary is consistently referred to, in an eerie H. Rider Haggard way, as "her" - like
some She Who Must Not Be Named.
What surprises me is that Goldmans paid her for these speeches, you know?
Hillary C typically pays "the audience" to listen to, and come to her speeches. You know? You
know!
This election cycle just proves how bad things have become. The two top presidential candidates
are an egotistical ignoramus and the quintessential establishment politician and they are neck
and neck because the voting public is Planet Stupid. Things will just continue to fall apart in
slow motion until some spark (like another financial implosion) sets off the next revolution.
"Now, without going over how we got to where we are right now, what would be your advice
to the Wall Street community and the big banks as to the way forward with those two important
decisions?
"SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I represented all of you [Wall St] for eight years."
I heard Hillary speak in summer '92, when Bill was running for Prez. She. was. amazing.
No joke. Great speech, great ideas, great points. I thought then she should be the candidate.
But there was in her speech just a tiny undercurrent of "the ends justify the means." i.e. 'we
need to get lots of money so we can do good things.' Fast forward 20+ years. Seems to me that
for the Clintons the "means" (getting lots of money) has become the end in itself. Reassuring
Wall St. is one method for getting money – large, large amounts of money.
I heard similar impressions of her at the time, from women who had dealt with her: Book smart.
Street smart. Likeable. But what might have been the best compromise you could get in one decade,
may have needed re-thinking as you moved along in time. The cast of players changes. Those who
once ruled are now gone. Oh, but the money! And so old ideas can calcify. I'm not suggesting that
Trump is even in the ballpark in terms of making compromises, speeches, life changes or anything
else to have ever been proud of. Still, the capacity to grow and change is important in a leader.
So where are we going now?
A fine illustration of the maxim that "crime makes you stupid."
I've said this once, but I'll say it again: After the 2008 caucus debacle, Clinton fired the
staff and rejiggered the campaign. They went to lots of small venues, like high school
gyms - in other words, "deplorables" territory - and Clinton did her detail, "I have a plan" thing,
which worked really well in that context because people who need government to deliver
concrete material benefits like that, and rightly. They also organized via cheap phones, because
that was how to reach their voters, who weren't hanging out at Starbucks. And, history being written
by the winners, we forget that using that strategy, Clinton won all the big states and (if all
the votes are counted) a majority of the popular vote. So, good decision on her part. And so from
that we've moved to the open corruption of the Clinton Foundation and Clinton campaign apparatus
that takes 11 people to polish and approve a single tweet.
So I guess the moral of the story is (a) more deterioration, this time from 2008 to 2016,
and (b) Clinton can actually make a good decision, but only when forced to by a catastrophe that
will impact her personally. Whether she'll be able to rise to the occasion if elected is an open
question, but this post argues not.
"Apparently, the provision of public services is not within government's remit! What are Social
Security and Medicare? "
What is the US Post Office? Rumor has it that the PO is mentioned in the US Constitution, a
fact that is conveniently forgotten by Strict Constructionists.
With respect to regulation, I think it should be less a case of quantity, and more one of quality,
but Clinton seems to want to make it about finding the sweet spot of exactly how many regulations
will be the right amount.
In general, when companies are willing to spot you $225,000 to speak for some relatively short
period of time, willing to meet your demands regarding transportation, hotel accommodations, etc.,
why would you take the chance of killing the goose that's laying those golden eggs by saying anything
likely to tick them off?
I'd like to think she's kind of embarrassed to have people see how humdrum/boring her speeches
were for how much she was paid to give them, but I think there's got to be more "there" somewhere
that she didn't want people to be made aware of – and it doesn't necessarily have to be Americans,
it could be something to do with foreign governments, foreign policy, trade, etc.
After learning how many people it takes to send out a tweet with her name on it, I have no
idea how she managed this speech thing, unless one of her requirements was that she had to be
presented with all questions in advance, so she could be prepared.
I am more depressed by the day, as it's really beginning to sink in that she's going to be
president, and it all just makes me want to stick needles in my eyes.
Also the "Wicked Problems" definitions are very, very interesting. Thank you for bringing those
in! I would add that these wicked problems lead to more wicked problems. It is basically dishonesty,
and to protect the lie you double down with more, and more, and more…. Most of Clinton's decisions
and career seem to be knots of wicked problems.
The wicked problem is quickly becoming our entire system of governance. Clinton has been described
as the malignant tumor here before, but even she is a place holder for the rot. One head of the
Hydra that I feel Establishment players would generally be okay with sacrificing if it came to
it (and maybe I am wrong there–but it seems as if a lot of the push fro her comes from her inner
circle and others play along).
Hail Hydra! Immortal Hydra! We shall never be destroyed! Cut off one limb and two more shall
take its place! We serve the Supreme Hydra, as the world shall soon serve us!
I've heard/read in some places Hillary Clinton described as a "safe pair of hands". I don't
understand where this characterization comes from. She's dangerous.
If she wins with as strong of an electoral map as Obama in '08, she'll take it as a strong
mandate and she'll have an ambitious agenda and likely attempt to overreach. I've been meaning
to call my congressional reps early and say "No military action on Syria, period!"
She might use a "public option" as an ACA stealth bailout scheme, but I don't think the public
has much appetite to see additional resources being thrown at a "failed experiment". I worry that
Bernie's being brought on board for this kind of thing. He should avoid it.
Is she crazy enough to go for a grand bargain right away? That seems nutty and has been a "Waterloo"
for many presidents.
Remember how important Obama's first year was. Bailouts and ACA were all done that first year.
How soon can we put President Clinton II in lame duck status?
Not really surprised by the intellectual and rhetorical poverty demonstrated by these speeches.
Given the current trajectory of our politics, the bar hasn't really been set very high. In fact
it looks like we're going to reach full Idiocracy long before originally predicted.
You ask, " What can Goldman Sachs possibly have thought they were paying for? "
But I think you know. Corruption has become so institutionalized that it is impossible to point
to any specific Quid Pro Quo. The Quo is the entire system in which GS operates and the care and
feeding of which the politicians are paid to administer.
We focus on HRC's speeches and payments here but I wonder how many other paid talks are given
to GS each year by others up and down the influence spectrum. As Bill Black says, a dollar given
to a politician provides the largest possible Return on Investment of any expenditure. It is Wall
Street's long-term health insurance plan.
Yeah we know which part of the "stool" we'll be getting.If the finance sector is "the nerves,
the spinal column" of the country, I suggest the country find a shallow pool in which to shove
it – head first.
I skimmed the /. comments on a story about this yesterday; basically everyone missed the obvious
and went with vox-type responses ("she's a creature of the system / in-fighter / Serious Person").
"So I'm not interested in, you know, turning the clock back or pointing fingers,
but I am interested in trying to figure out how we come together to chart a better way
forward and one that will restore confidence in, you know, small and medium-size businesses and
consumers and begin to chip away at the unemployment rate [five years into the recession!]."
Basically, even better than a get out of jail free card, in that it is rather a promise that
we won't go back and ever hold you responsible, and we have done the best we could so far to avoid
having you own up to anything or be held accountable in any way beyond some niggling fines, which
of course, you are happy to pay, because in the end, that is simply a handout to the legal industry,
who are your best drinking buddies.
The latter part of that quote is just mumbo jumbo non-sequitir blathering. Clinton appears
to know next to nothing about finance, only that it generates enormous amounts of cash for the
oh so deserving work that God told them to do.
+1 exactly: There will be no retrospective prosecutions and none in the future either, trust
me! Not the she is any better than Eric Holder but she is certain she should be paid more than
him.
Bingo! Think about it: She was speaking to a group of people whose time is "valued" at
100's if not 1,000's of dollars per hour. She took up their "valuable" time but provided nothing
except politics-as-usual blather tailored to that particular audience. Yet she was paid $225k
for a single speech…
I've only skimmed through the speech transcripts; did I miss something of substance?
Hillary is a remarkably inarticulate person, which calls into question her intellectual
fitness for the job (amidst many other questions, of course). I entirely agree with your depiction
of her speeches as mindless drivel.
However, you may be overthinking the "wicked problem" language. While it is certainly
possible that she is familiar with the literature that you cite, nothing else in her speeches
suggests that she commands that level of intellectual detail. This makes me think that somewhere
along the line she befriended someone from the greater Boston area who uses "wicked" the way Valley
Girls use "like". When I first heard the expression decades ago, I found it charming and incorporated
it into my own common usage. And I don't use it anything like you describe. To me it is simply
used for emphasis. Nothing more or less than that, but I am amused to see an entire literature
devoted to the concept of a "wicked problem".
I remain depressed by this election. No matter how it turns out, it's going to wicked suck
; )
I think the inarticulateness/cliche infestation is a ploy and a deflection; this is a very
intelligent woman who can effectively marshall language when she feels the need. That need was
more likely felt in private meetings with the inner cabal at Goldman.
Not to otherwise compare them, but Bush I's inarticulateness made him seem a buffoon, and
that was not the case, either.
Finally, as a thought experiment, I'd like to suggest that, granting that Clintonismo will
privilege those interests which best fortify their arguments with cash, it's also true that Bill
and Hillary are all about Bill and Hillary. In other words, it could be that she has the same
hustler's disregard toward the lumpen Assistant Vice Presidents filling that room at GS as she
does for the average voter. Thus, the empty, past-their-expiration-date calories.
Sure, she'll take their money and do their bidding, but why even bother to make any more effort
than necessary? On a very primal level with these two, it's all about the hustle and the action,
and everyone's a potential rube.
As in, when Bill put his presidency on the line, the base were expected to circle the wagons.
As in, "I'm With Her". Not "She's With Us", natch. It's *always* about the Clintons.
"Speaking to bankers and masters of the corporate universe, she came off as relaxed, self-doubting,
reflective, honest, philosophical rather than political, and unafraid to admit she lacked all
the answers."
seriously, matt taibbi? next, i would like to hear about the positive, feelgood, warmfuzzy
qualities of vampire squids (hugs cthulhu doll).
Matt Tiabbi, Elizabeth Warren, Benie Sanders, Noam Chompsky–all those used to seem like
bastions of integrity have, thanks to Hillary, been revealed as slimy little Weasels who should
henceforth be completely disregarded. I'd have to thank Hillary for pulling back the nlindets
on that; if not for this election I might have been still foolishly listening to these people.
agree w you except about Bernie. he always said he'd support the nominee. the suddenness of
his capitulation has led many of us to believe he was threatened. somewhere I read something about
"someone" planting kiddieporn on his son's computer if he didn't do…… I dunno. I reserve judgement
on Sanders until I learn more,…. if i ever do
Clinton's remarks were typically vague, as one might expect from a politician; she doesn't
want to be pinned down. This may be part of the banality of her remarks.
What scares me most about Clinton is her belligerence towards Russia and clamoring for
a no-fly zone in Syria. The no-fly zone will mean war with Russia. If only Clinton were saying
this, we might be safe, but the entire Washington deep state seems to be of one mind in favor
of a war. During the cold war this would have been inconceivable; everyone understood a nuclear
war must not be allowed. This is no longer true and it is terrifying. Every war game the pentagon
used to simulate a war with the U.S.S.R. escalated into an all out nuclear war. What is the "plan
B" Obama is pursuing in Syria?
In the Russian press every day for a long time now they have been discussing the prospect of
a conflict. Russia has been conducting civil defense drills in its cities and advised its citizens
to recall any children living abroad. This is never reported in our press, which only presents
us with caricatures of Putin. Russians are not taken seriously.
During the cold war this would have been inconceivable; everyone understood a nuclear war
must not be allowed.
No it wasn't. Far from it. By some miracle, the globe escaped instant incineration but only
barely. The Soviets, to their credit, were not about to risk nuclear annihilation to get one
up on the US of Perfidy. Our own Dauntless Warriors were more than willing, and I believe it's
only through dumb luck that a first strike wasn't launched deliberately or by deliberate "accident."
Review the Cold War concept of Brinkmanship.
The current fear/fever over nuclear war with Russia requires madness in the Kremlin - of
which there is no evidence. Our Rulers are depending on Putin and his cohorts being the sane
ones as rhetoric from the US and the West ratchets ever upwards.
But then, the Kremlin is looking for any hint of sanity on US and NATO side and is finding
little…
Curtis LeMay tried to provoke a nuclear war with the Soviets in the 1950's. By and large,
however, the American state understood a nuclear war was unwinnable and avoided such a possibility.
A no-fly zone in Syria would start a war with Russia. William Polk, who participated in the Cuban
missle crisis and U.S. nuclear war games, argues in this article
" "the nerves, the spinal column" of the country, goes farther than Obama ever did."
But this description is technically true. That is finance's proper function, co-ordinating
the flow of capital and resources, especially from where they're in excess to where they're needed.
It's a key decision-making system – for the economy, preferably not for society as a whole. That
would be the political system.
So on this basic level, the problem is that finance, more and more, has put its own institutional
and personal interests ahead of its proper function. It's grown far too huge, and stopped performing
its intended function – redistributing resources – in favor of just accumulating them, in the
rather illusory form of financial instruments, some of them pure vapor ware.
So yes, this line reflects a very bad attitude on Hillary's part, but by misappropriating a
truth – pretty typical propaganda.
No, finance does NOT "channel resources". Wash your mouth out. This is more neoliberal cant.
Financiers do not make investments in the real economy. The overwhelming majority of securities
trading is in secondary markets, which means it's speculation. And when a public company decides
whether or not to invest in a new project, it does not present a prospectus on that new project
to investors. It runs the numbers internally. For those projects, the most common source of funding
is retained earnings.
Clinton shows that she is either a Yale Law grad who does not have the slightest idea that
Wall Street does very little in the economy but fleece would-be investors, or that she is an obsequious
flatterer of those from whom she openly takes bribes.
Having heard Hillary, Chelsea (yes, she's being groomed) and many, many other politicians over
the years, including a stint covering Capitol Hill, Mme C's verbal style does not surprise to
me at all but rather strikes me as perfectly serviceable. It is a mellifluous drone designed to
lull the listener into thinking that she is on their side, and the weakness of the actual statements
only becomes clear when reading them on the page later (which rarely happens). The drowsy listener
will catch, among the words strung together like Christmas lights, just the key terms and concepts
that demonstrate knowledge of the brief and a soothing layer of vague sympathy. Those who can
award her $600K can assume with some confidence that, rhetoric aside, she will be in the tank
when needed. The rest of us have to blow away the chaff and peer into the yawning gaps lurking
behind the lawyerly parsing. In all fairness, this applies to 90% of seekers of public office.
The absolute vacuousness of Clinton's remarks, coupled with her ease at neoliberal conventional
wisdom, make it clear that Goldman's payments were nothing more (or less) than a $675,000 anticipatory
"so no quid pro quo here" bribe.
Who on earth gives up their vote to a politician who is so shameless an corrupt that she openly
accepts bribes from groups who equally shamelessly and corruptly are looting the commons? Apparently
many, but not me.
Nothing like making lemons out of lemonade, is there?
There really is a question why she didn't do this doc dump herself when Bernie asked. Yeah,
sure, she would have been criticized ("damned if you do, damned if you don't") but because of
who she is she'll be criticized no matter what. There is nothing she can do to avoid it.
Not only is there no smoking gun, it's almost as if she's trying to inject a modicum of social
conscience into a culture that has none. And no, she isn't speaking artfully; nor is she an orator.
Oh. Not that we didn't know already.
The most galling aspect is her devotion to the neoLibCon status quo. Steady as she goes. Apparently
a lot of people find the status quo satisfactory. Feh.
If this document dump came out during the primary campaign, then HRC may have lost. Even Black,
Southern ladies can smell the corrupting odor clinging to these "speeches".
Given the way DNC protected her during the primaries, and what looked like a pretty light touch
by Bernie and (who? O'Malley was it?) toward her, I doubt these speeches would have been her undoing.
Dull and relatively benign, and policy-wise almost identical to Obama's approach to the bankers'
role in the economic unpleasantness. "Consensus" stuff with some hint of a social conscience.
Not effective and not enough to do more than the least possible ("I told them they ought to
behave better. Really!") on behalf of the Rabble.
But not a campaign killer. Even so, by not releasing transcripts during the primary, she faced
- and still faces - mountains of criticism over it. No escape. Not for her.
I'm not sure that's an appropriate strategy for dealing with multiple interlocking wicked problems,
but I'm not sure why. Suppose we invoke the Precautionary Principle - is incremental change
really the way to avoid harm?
The Consensus (of Opinions That Matter) says it is. On the other hand, blowing up the System
leads to Uncertainty, and as we know, we can't have that. Mr. Market wouldn't like it…
The leaked emails confirm - even though she herself never writes them, which is really
odd, when you consider that Podesta is her Campaign Chair and close ally going back decades -
that she is compulsively secretive, controlling, and resistant to admitting she's wrong. The chain
of people talking about how to get her to admit she was wrong about Nancy Reagan and AIDS was
particularly fascinating that way; she was flat out factually inaccurate, and it had the potential
to do tremendous harm to her campaign with a key donor group, and it was apparently still a major
task to persuade her to say "I made a mistake."
So while I think you are wrong that the speeches wouldn't have hurt her in the primary, I also
think Huma would have had to knock her out and tie her up (not in a fun way) to get those speeches
released.
I can't imagine a worse temperament to govern, particularly under the conditions she'll be
facing. But she'll be fully incompetent before too long, so I don't suppose it matters that much.
I'm morbidly curious to see how long they can keep her mostly hidden and propped up for limited
appearances, before having to let Kaine officially take over. Will we be able to figure out who's
actually in power based on the line-up on some balcony?
Fair points, though the "temperament" issue may be one that follows from the nature of the
job - even "No Drama Obama" is said to have a fierce anger streak, and secrecy, controlling behavior,
and refusing to admit error is pretty typical of presidents, VPs, and other high officials. The
King/Queen can do no wrong, dontchaknow. (cf: Bush, GW, and his whole administration for recent
examples. History is filled with them, though.)
As for Hillary's obvious errors in judgment, I think they speak for themselves and they don't
speak well of her.
TINA vs WATA (we are the alternative)…the next two years are gonna be interesting…evil is often
a cover for total incompetence and exposure…our little tsarina will insist brigades that dont
exist move against enemies that are hardly there…when she & her useless minions were last in/on
the seat of power(j edger version of sop) the netizens of the world were young and dumb…now not
so much…
I got into wicked problems 35 years ago in the outstanding book by Ian Mitroff and R. O. Mason,
"Challenging Strategic Planning Assumptions." First page of Chapter One has subsection title COMPLEXITY,
followed by "A Little Experiment" Lets try the experiment with current problems.
One could come up with a list of major problems, but here is the one used by C. West Churchman
mentioned along with Horst Riddle. Churchman back in the 80's said that the problems of the world
were M*P**3, or M, P cubed, or M * P * P *P with the letters standing for Militarism, Population,
Poverty and Pollution.
Here is how they ran the exercise
1. Suppose there were a solution to any of these 4 problems, would that solution be related
to the other problems. Clearly.
2. Thus 'whenever a policy maker attempts to solve a complex policy problem, it is related
to all the others
Repeated attempts in other contexts give the same result: basically, every real world
policy problem is related to every other real world policy problem
This is from page 4, the second page of the book.
I ran this exercise for several years in ATT Bell Labs and ATT.
List major problems
How long have they been around? (most for ever except marketing was new after breakup in
'84
If one was solved, would that solution be related in any way to the other ones?
Do you know of any program that is making headway? (occasionally Quality was brought up)
This could be done in a few minutes, often less than 5 minutes
5. Conclusion: long term interdependent problems that are not being addressed
Thus the only grade that matters in this course on Corporate Transformation that now begins
is that you have new insights on these problems. This was my quest as an internal consultant in
ATT to transform the company. I failed.
I was a Sanders supporter. Many here will disagree, but if Clinton wins I don't think she's
going to act as she might have acted in 2008, if she had won.
Clinton is a politician, and *all* politicians dissemble in private, unless they're the mayor
of a small town of about 50 people – and even then! Politicians – in doing their work – *must*
compromise to some degree, with the best politicians compromising in ways that bring their constituents
more benefit, than not.
That said, Clinton is also a human being who is capable of change. This election cycle has
been an eye opener for both parties. If Clinton wins (and, I think she will), the memory of how
close it was with Sanders and the desperate anger and alienation she has experienced from Trump
supporters (and even Sanders' supporters) *must* have already gotten her thinking about what she
is going to have to get done to insure a 2020 win for Democrats, whether or not she is running
in 2020.
In sum, I think Clinton is open to change, and I don't believe that she is some deep state
evil incarnate; sge's *far* from perfect, and she's not "pure" in her positioning – thank god!,
because in politics, purists rarely accomplish anything.
If Clinton reverts to prior form (assuming she makes (POTUS), 2020 will make 2016 look like
a cakewalk, for both parties – including the appearance of serious 3rd party candidates with moxy,
smarts, and a phalanx of backers (unlike the current crop of two – Johnson and Stein).
"... "The drama was a commercial and critical success, surpassing ten million views by its second day,[4] and receiving a total number of daily internet views on iQiyi of over 3.3 billion by the end of the series.[5][6] Nirvana in Fire was considered a social media phenomenon, generating 3.55 billion posts on Sina Weibo that praised its characters and story-line." ..."
As you recall the French Exocet , a souped-up V1 in respects, has been "out there" a
long time.
. . . In the years after the Falklands War, it was revealed that the British government
and the Secret Intelligence Service had been extremely concerned at the time by the perceived
inadequacy of the Royal Navy's anti-missile defenses against the Exocet and its potential to
tip the naval war decisively in favor of the Argentine forces. A scenario was envisioned in
which one or both of the force's two aircraft carriers (Invincible and Hermes) were destroyed
or incapacitated by Exocet attacks, which would make recapturing the Falklands much more difficult.
Actions were taken to contain the Exocet threat. A major intelligence operation was also
initiated to prevent the Argentine Navy from acquiring more of the weapons on the international
market.[16]
The operation included British intelligence agents claiming to be arms dealers
able to supply large numbers of Exocets to Argentina, who diverted Argentina from pursuing
sources which could genuinely supply a few missiles. France denied deliveries of Exocet AM39s
purchased by Peru to avoid the possibility of Peru giving them to Argentina, because they knew
that payment would be made with a credit card from the Central Bank of Peru. British intelligence
had detected the guarantee was a deposit of two hundred million dollars from the Andean Lima
Bank, an owned subsidiary of the Banco Ambrosiano.[17][18] wiki
The French are major proliferisers of modern weapon systems. They and the Russians have put
a lot of weapons out there which are affordable for small States but have the potential even to
worry the biggest militaries.
Much of world history depends on the relative availability of defensive/offensive weaponry.
Back when the castle was the apex of military might any local thug with the money to build one
could become a lord and rule his little kingdom. Then when cannons became powerful enough to reduce
them to rubble empires came back into vogue. When battleships ruled the waves, this allowed the
great seagoing nations to dominate, but the invention of the torpedo along with submarines and
long range bombers levelled things up for smaller nations such as Japan. Then the aircraft carrier
swung things back to empires in the post war years. But now I think high speed sea skimming and
ballistic missiles along with long distance torpedoes have swung things back to 'weaker' nations.
Even the Houthi's in Yemen seem to have obtained missiles capable of knocking out an
ex-US combat vessel.
The democratization of missile technology is the big military story of the last three decades.
Look at, for instance, at how Hezbollah's Sheik Nasrullah kicked off the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict
by striking an Israeli warship during a TV presentation. Very slick.
In fac, talking of the USS Stark, all those ships with their big aluminum superstructures will
burn down to their waterline when hit. The Emirates even recently banned aluminum in tower buildings
recently.
Aluminum's vulnerability didn't matter during the decades of the Cold War when if the Big One
started the surface navy wouldn't really do any fighting because it would all be up anyway, and
meanwhile smaller groups and nations - especially those with brown skins - didn't have access
to serious missile technology.
The big transition point came with the Falklands War when the UK's admirals smartly stood their
aircraft carriers beyond range till Margaret Thatcher phoned to Mitterand and intimated that the
British might use their Polaris submarine to nuke Buenos Aires unless Mitterand gave up the Exocet
codes. Think I'm kidding? Thatcher got the codes; they didn't call her Mad Maggie for nothing.
As for why they're still building surface warships with aluminum superstructures, it's military
Keynesianism and everybody would have to be submariners otherwise, which wouldn't be fun..
I think the Pentagon did an analysis under GW Bush about attacking Iran and buried the idea.
I believe this is why Iran made a big dash for surface-to-surface missiles to defend themselves,
and DID NOT have to go for nukes. If you've got anti-ship missiles, you can push those carriers
far enough out to sea which limits the ability to launch airstrikes.
Plus, with anti-ship missiles, you can put the Persian Gulf on total lockdown and watch the
Saudis suffocate. Iran has already been dealing with sanctions for years, so it's no sweat to
them!
If the USA ever has an aircraft carrier sunk, the unipolar moment is indisputably over.
I suspect that for the money put out the Chinese get a lot more defense. In fact, if they are
spending 200 billion and we are spending 600 billion we can be sure that they are close to parity.
Of course, we are spending a lot more than 600 billion when you add in VA, disability and retirement
costs as well as current war outlays. The entire defense industry in both China and the US is
obsolete given modern communications and immigration trends anyway. How are you going to bomb
Yemen when the excess population in Yemen ends up driving taxis in Washington D.C. or why bomb
Syria when all it does is encourage the Syrians to move to the west? What is the difference between
a Syrian or Afghan in Idaho or Berlin and one in Damascus or Kabul? The national state is becoming
obsolete and military action is powerless against demography.
The key paradox for the US military is that wars are won not by who has the greatest number
of tanks, ships or aircraft, but by the country that can put the greatest number of tanks, ships
and aircraft into the field of battle . The US has by far the biggest military in the
world, but it has also put itself in the position of needing a military a multiple of everyone
elses because of the sheer geographical spread of commitments. China's military is tiny and primitive
compared to the US, but in reality any war is likely to be geographically limited – to (for example)
the South China Sea. China has every chance of being able to match the US in this kind of war.
As for China's blue sea commitments, I actually doubt they have any intention of really pursuing
a long range war capacity. The Chinese know their history and know that a military on this scale
can be economically ruinous. But there is a naval military concept known as
fleet in being , which
essentially means that even a theoretical threat can force an enemy to pour resources into trying
to neutralise it. China I think is using this concept – continually setting off rumours of new
strike missiles, long range attack aircraft, new aircraft carriers, etc., to force the US (aided
and abetted by the defence industry) to spent countless billions on phantom threats. Some of these
rumours may be true – many I suspect are simply deliberate mischief making by the Chinese, with
the serious aim of dissipating America's military strength.
A new theatre for that mischief and dissipation is Africa. My parish has a Nigerian priest.
When he's away, we usually get another Nigerian. At supper for the Bishop last Saturday, our priest,
an Ibo, and another, a Hausa from Kano, said that many, if not, most Nigerians think Boko Haram
is assisted by the US and, to a lesser extent, France as it gives the pair an excuse to maintain
troops in the region and keep their client state governments in line.
Whether or not its true, the fact that intelligent people think that way shows everything you
need to know about how US and Western soft power has been frittered away the past few years through
stupidity and cynicism.
Why bomb? Because then Uncle Sugar gets to take their stuff after they all leave their war
torn countries. If some of the refugees are pissed off and blow up some people in their new homelands,
why that's just a little collateral damage and when has the establishment ever cared about that?
It just gives them an excuse to surveil everyone.
What can the world, or any nation in it, hope for if no turning is found on this dread road?
The worst to be feared and the best to be expected can be simply stated.
The worst is atomic war.
The best would be this: a life of perpetual fear and tension; a burden of arms draining the
wealth and the labor of all peoples; a wasting of strength that defies the American system or
the Soviet system or any system to achieve true abundance and happiness for the peoples of this
earth.
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final
sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.
This world in arms in not spending money alone.
It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.
It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.
It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.
It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.
We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat.
We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.
This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.
This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it
is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
- that crazy commie madman, Dwight Eisenhower, in 1953 on military Keynesianism.
ClubOrlov argues that the difference in military spending between the U. S. and Russia is lessened
as our spending is bloated and misspent due to corruption.
The Russians are treating spending as a scarce natural resource. In the U. S. we spend as McCain
says like drunken sailors.
I'd be very sceptical that the Russian military somehow avoids the rampant corruption in other
parts of the Russian economy.
By necessity, the Russian military has always been parsimonious and has had to get more firepower
for its rouble than other wealthier countries. Much of their weaponry is very simple, effective
and robust, and Russian tactics are as good if not better than any other major military. However,
they've had their white elephants too – their new
Yasen Class attack
submarines are far too expensive as an example, and poor quality control in manufacturing
has meant that many of their more advanced weapons have dubious real world utility. Their large
ships are generally a disaster, a complete waste of money (this is why they were buying assault
ships from France).
USA military power is just as great as it has ever been, if not greater. What's changed is
the traction it had in forcing alignment from partners who held very little cultural/common ground
with the USA.
Biggest factor in that loss of traction is that Russia (and to a lesser extent China) is not
exporting revolution anymore. Both China and Russia engage in real politic with limited military
power that makes them a far less threatening partner than the USA for any state that is willing
to transfer some of the wealth to them that the USA formerly extracted (and usually these new
players pay much better price with less interference). Even Vietnam, which has real historical
reasons to be Sinophobic, probably fears China less than it does a US Government which attempts
to subvert Vietnam's economy through currency dependency. How so Russia, which is no threat to
any of Vietnam's interests.
What constrains Russia's power isn't the military, but it's relatively minuscule consumer market.
Similarly, China's trade protectionism for semi-finished and finished goods has constrained it's
ability to project power to those nations, like Australia, Argentina & Russia, which subsist primarily
on raw material exports. China is in a better situation than Russia to change this situation and
expand it's power into Europe, though I doubt Xi is the man for it.
What's changed is the traction it had in forcing alignment from partners who held very little
cultural/common ground with the USA.
I'd claim that the alignment came not so much from US military might but rather from the US
offering better terms – at least to "white countries"; plenty of brutal regime change and CIA
skulduggery was applied on brown folks, still is, in fact.
Now, it seems to the world that the US have become so bloated with it's own military and perceived
cultural/economic superiority that the US offers pretty much nothing in return to anyone, regardless
of the favors asked. Everyone are treated as colonies and vassals, except perhaps a few leaders
and decision makers (Or maybe it was always like that but now we got the Internet and we know).
This state of affairs pisses people off.
In addition, people are beginning to understand that what is applied to brown people abroad
today can happen to them also tomorrow. That in the US world order, everyone who is not an American
have no value compared to an American* and can be killed, tortured, disappeared with no consequences
what so ever. Because fuck Nürenberg.
Therefore, everyone else being in some way enemies of the US merely by belonging to another
tribe than America, has realized that there is no good thing coming from aligning with America,
sooner or later the "military option" or "the regime change" will come out and we will be knifed
in the back. Those who can actively resist, those who have the option aligns with other powers,
those who cannot do this, will drag their feet and try to avoid direct confrontation, maybe something
will show up?
Stupid, weak, nations like Denmark and Sweden go all in with 110% effort on the fantasy that
they will be seen as good people with an American core, struggling to claw it's way out, from
inside their unworthy un-American bodies and therefore they will be protected – at least for a
while*.
*)
Americans themselves are beginning to realize that anyone who isn't rich & covered in lawyers
can be fined, jailed or even killed right in the street by the police for basically nothing at
all. This is beginning to grate on their understanding of their place in the pecking order. But,
everyone still blame Whites, Latinos, Blacks, Feminists identity politics works, keeps the contraption
from falling off the road.
This also shows why the silly idea of escape by being super-American will not work: Americans
are treated like shit too.
Thank you. I like your point about "stupid, weak nations". French is my second language. English
is my third. I watch French TV news most days and visit the place regularly, business and pleasure,
and studied there. I am surprised, but may be should not be, at how American France has become
/ is becoming. Hollande and Sarko, who has American connections by way of his stepmother and half
brothers, have made the country a poodle in a way that de Gaulle and Chirac would not. Most French
people I know seem ok or indifferent to that. Part of that Americanisation seems to be the English
/ Americanised English forenames given to French children. I have observed that trend in (western)
Germany and even francophone communities well away from the French mainland.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the best example of what being a loyal US "ally" entails:
corrupt local elites working against their country's own best interests lest they become a
target for a color revolution. Meanwhile their much-suffering subjects don't know which way
to turn to hide their collective embarrassment.
My files are bulging to the bursting point. The latest fiasco in Colonia Bulgaria was the election
of the new GenSec of the UN. Bulgaria had a leading candidate, until Merkel decided that she wanted
Germany to play an outsized role in the UN, and bring EU politics into the UN.
Disaster ensued:
So the initial Bulgarian candidate Bokova looked like the ideal choice. Here was a chance
for little old Bulgaria to shine on the world stage for the first time in over a millenium,
possibly since the Bulgars burst out of Central Asia on horseback. Add this to the background
context: it is unprecedented for a country to nominate a candidate officially, a front-runner
no less, and then do a public switcheroo before the world's eyes. But that's exactly what Bulgaria
did just a week ago. Bokova was dumped and Georgieva spooned up. Disaster ensued, as I predicted
it would in previous columns .
Bulgaria lost its once-in-a-millenium chance at shaping the world. As the record shows,
Gutteres won.
If Bulgaria were a normal healthy country, the Prime Minister would now resign and the government
would fall. Because, it was the Prime Minister's decision to switch candidates. He did so despite
knowing that two-thirds of Bulgarian citizens preferred his first candidate. Boyko Borissov
is his name, a deeply underachieving dull-witted schemer-survivor in the wooden tradition of
the region. A short-fingered Bulgarian if ever there was one. He first came to the fore as
the bodyguard of the last Bulgarian Communist leader. That should give you a clue to the man's
qualities. So why did Boyko 'switch horses'? Why did he do it?
Brutal, just brutal kick in the butt from the ally's MSM. And that's only one of many reactions.
Because even the bosses don't like grovelling toadies. They want to control them, but they will
never invite them for an afternoon tea. Particularly a marionette whose mafia ties the Congressional
Quarterly wrote about. Not that these organized crime ties are a disqualifier, if anything the
US likes that because it makes Borissov easy to control.
At least Merkel's scheming and Bulgaria's humiliation had an unexpected positive effect: Power
and Churkin managed to put on a BFF act in front of the cameras and allied to get Gutteres elected
as SecGen, while delivering a massive kick in Merkel's ample backside. Takes some doing to get
the US and Russia to not only see eye to eye on anything, but to also work in concert. Bravo!
PS This also proves a historical truth: doing Germany's bidding never ends well for Bulgaria.
Or for any other nation.
global scenario that the down-to-earth presidents of China and Russia seem to have in mind
resembles the sort of balance of power that existed in Europe.
The article floats away here. China and Russia might want to have something that "resembles"
that time, but the analogy overlooks the fact that the relatively calm state of affairs - Franco-Prussian
war? - on the European continent after Napoleon coexisted with savage colonial expansion. The
forms of superexploitation thereby obtained did much to help stabilize Europe, even as competition
for colonial lands became more and more destabilizing and were part of what led to WW1.
Now we're in a situation in which superexploitation options are largely gone. Routine profit
generation has become difficult due to global productive overcapacity, leading to behavioral sinkish
behavior like the US cannibalizing its public sector to feed capital. Since the late 19th century
US foreign policy has been organized around the open markets mantra. It may be possible for the
Chinese, with their greater options for economy manipulation, to avoid the crashes the US feared
from lack of market access. But the current situation on its face does not have anything like
the colonial escape valve available in the 19th century.
Of course,duplicitous political COPORATISM means systems over a systemic characterized by marked
or even intentional deception that is now sustained and even spearheaded by state systems. Many
contemporary liberal idealists living in urban strongholds of market mediated comfort zones will
not agree to assigning such strong description to an Obama administration. It is too distant and
remote to assign accountability to global international finance and currency wars that have hegemonic
hedge funds pumping and dumping crisis driven anarchy over global exploit (ruled by market capital
fright / fight and flight). To the extent that colonialism or neocolonialism does not actually
hold fixed boundary ground is irrelevant, since assets are more differential and flexible needing
only corporate law to sustain strict boundaries on possession or instruments that convert to the
same power over assets. No one, of course, wants to assess stocks and bonds as instruments of
global oppression or exploitation that far exceeds 19th century's crude colonial rule. Recall,
however, how "joint stock" corporations first opened chartered exploit at global levels under
East and West Trading power aggregates that were profit driven enter-prize. So in reality the
current cross border market system of neoliberal globalization is, in fact, a stealth colonialism
on steroids. TPP is part of that process in all its stealthy dimensions.
"The TPP is a corporate power grab, a 5,544-page document that was negotiated in secret by
big corporations while Congress, the public, and unions were locked out.
Multinationals like Google, Exxon, Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, UPS, FedEx, Apple, and Walmart are
lobbying hard for it. Virtually every union in the U.S. opposes it. So do major environmental,
senior, health, and consumer organizations.
The TPP will mean fewer jobs and lower wages, higher prices for prescription drugs, the loss of
regulations that protect our drinking water and food supply, and the loss of Internet freedom.
It encourages privatization, undermines democracy, and will forbid many of the policies we need
to combat climate change."
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/09/30/ttp-ttip-map-shows-
how-trade-deals-would-enable-polluter-power-grab
TTP & TTIP: Map Shows How Trade Deals Would Enable 'Polluter Power-Grab'
by Andrea Germanos
The new, interactive tool 'gives people a chance to see if toxic trade is in their own backyard'
From a long range view, 19th Century compitition using black and brown property and lives was
an improvement over battling face to face with neighbors. It was an expansion of tribal boundaries,
somewhat.
Now, few argue openly (except in presidential debates) against those boundaries encompassing brown
and black members of the human race. We engage our ruthlessness less openly in covert operations,
corporate predations and financial hegemony.
Even awful behavior can be seen as an advance.
This is very handy, thanks. However the conclusion stops short of what the SCO is saying and
doing. They have no interest in an old-time balance of power. They want rule of law, a very different
thing. Look at Putin's Syria strategy: he actually complies with the UN Charter's requirement
to pursue pacific dispute resolution. That's revolutionary. When CIA moles in Turkey shot that
Russian jet down, the outcome was not battles and state-sponsored terror, as CIA expected. The
outcome was support for Turkey's sovereignty and rapprochement. Now when CIA starts fires you
go to Russia to put them out.
While China maintains its purist line on the legal principle of non-interference, it is increasingly
vocal in urging the US to fulfill its human rights obligations. That will sound paradoxical because
of intense US vilification of Chinese authoritarianism, but when you push for your economic and
social rights here at home, China is in your corner. Here Russia is leading by example. They comply
with the Paris Principles for institutionalized human rights protection under independent international
oversight. The USA does not.
When the USA goes the way of the USSR, we'll be in good hands. The world will show us how developed
countries work.
"RULE OF LAW" up front and personal (again?)
Now why would the USA be worried about global rule of law?
An Interesting ideal. No country above the law.
" US President Barack Obama has vetoed a bill that would have allowed the families of the victims
of the September 11, 2001, attacks to sue the government of Saudi Arabia.
In a statement accompanying his veto message, Obama said on Friday he had
"deep sympathy" for the 9/11 victims' families and their desire to seek justice for
their relatives.
The president said, however, that the bill would be "detrimental to US national interests"
and could lead to lawsuits against the US or American officials for actions taken by groups armed,
trained or supported by the US.
"If any of these litigants were to win judgements – based on foreign domestic laws as applied
by foreign courts – they would begin to look to the assets of the US government held abroad to
satisfy those judgments, with potentially serious financial consequences for the United States,"
Obama said."
-----------------------
To the tune of "Moma said " by The Shirelles –
.Oh don't you know Obama said they be days like this,
..they would be days like this Obama said
One interesting irony is that in Obama's TPP "The worst part is an Investor-State Dispute Settlement
provision, which allows a multinational corporation to sue to override any U.S. law, policy, or
practice that it claims could limit its future profits."
(source:
http://labornotes.org/2016/09/october-all-hands-deck-stop-tpp
)
"Though the Obama administration touts the pact's labor and environmental protections, the official
Labor Advisory Committee on the TPP strongly opposes
it, arguing that these protections are largely unenforceable window dressing."
I think you're overstating the Russian military advantage in Syria and Ukraine, while ignoring
the real dysfunction in US foreign policy. Key policy thinkers at State and Defense still believe
that it's worth the time and effort for the US to project military influence in Syria. This is
a policy position entirely driven by Israel's existential concern over Iran. There are no substantial
US interests in Syria right now. We aren't actually fighting ISIS, because if we were, we would
be targeting the foreign funding coming from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. As a consequence, if we simply
withdrew from Syria, Russia would be left propping up a regime that would be fighting an ongoing
insurgency against foreign jihadists.
In other words, it would be wasting its time and resources on a pointless fight to build a
state in the Middle East (sounds familiar). Russia is the one with a military base in Syria that
they need to protect. Let them waste the time and energy defending their military assets.
Instead, the US should be reducing its Middle East footprint and selectively engaging in key
diplomatic efforts. The Saudis and the Gulf States are committed to fighting it out with Iran
for Middle East influence. There's no reason for us to pick sides in this fight. Let them engage
in proxy wars without US military assistance and then, when the time is right, we can offer our
role as a neutral broker and negotiate terms that actually benefit our strategic interests.
The reason we can't play this role in the region is because we are so myopically focused on
policies that are pro-Israeli. Eliminate Israel's interests from the calculations, and our policies
would change dramatically.
Great article and comments. Surprised there has been no speculation here about what HRC will
do with the geopolitical hash created by neo-lib economics and neo-con foreign and military policies.
We know what Obama did (not) do with what was really a political mandate. Certainly he has been
constrained politically and, perhaps, personally ( shame what happened to those nice Kennedy boys,
they had so much "promise.") However, as has been ably pointed out in comments above, his actions
where he was not constrained are the flag in the wind. You don't have to be a weatherman .
Hillary, of course, has already shown her colors. There will be no Nobel based on promises
and high expectations. She will relentlessly pursue the PNAC programme and the "exceptional, essential
nation" fantasy, contra the analysis above. You can take the girl out of the Goldwater, but you
can't take the Goldman out of the girl.All that glitters ..
Fascinating thread, thanks.
I stream a lot of Korean dramas, and lately Chinese dramas have also been showing up in my video
feeds; it is clear that Taiwan and China are trying to access eyeballs globally, as a means to
gain soft power – and revenue.
The earlier Chinese dramas seeking a global audience seemed shrill, melodramatic, and approximately
the production quality of the old static BBC costume dramas of the 1970s. I found them unwatchable.
However, China has recently put out something that is quite possibly a masterpiece of storytelling.
" Nirvana in Fire " [NiF] is an epic story of betrayal, treachery, loyalty, and trust,
with some incredible martial arts into the mix. NiF is described as the Chinese Game of Thrones
. (I am unable to make a good comparison, as I have not watched GoT). However, I'd argue
that NiF is every bit as good as the BBC's brilliant " The Tudors " (2007, with Jonathon
Rhys Meyers).
I take NiF as a sign that despite what sounds like a hideous housing bubble, China's cultural
endeavors are developing at a level that is as outstanding as anything that any nation can produce.
And in a world where the Internet seems to be morphing into a vast, global video distribution
service (woohoo!!), that is no small thing. Judging from social media stats, it appears to be
quite formidable.
This new Silk Road is often spoken of as physical, and I do not take it lightly; nevertheless,
the silkier threads are probably the telecom infrastructure carrying subtitled dramas to mobiles,
desktops, and smart TVs around the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_In_Fire
From the wiki page: "The drama was a commercial and critical success, surpassing ten million
views by its second day,[4] and receiving a total number of daily internet views on iQiyi of over
3.3 billion by the end of the series.[5][6] Nirvana in Fire was considered a social media
phenomenon, generating 3.55 billion posts on Sina Weibo that praised its characters and
story-line."
I searched for 'Facebook posts on GoT' but could not get any results that I trusted enough to
include here. It's a fair guess, however, they did not amount to 3,550,000,000 comments. Whoever
gets to stream their dramas across Africa and S. America will develop a formidable 'soft power'
resource.
That series sounds very interesting, I must look for it.
I think the Chinese are quite serious about using film and TV as soft power, but they face
a paradox in that it is hard to promote quality drama while also indulging in heavy censorship.
The Chinese are very good at using carrots and sticks to 'tame' artists – just look at how a formerly
great film maker like Zhang Yimou has gone from making beautiful and subtle allegories about Chinese
society to now just making big empty commercial epics which are little more than propaganda pieces.
I doubt Chinese film makers will ever have the freedom to make the sort of challenging work that
Korean film makers do all the time (Japanese film makers once did this too, but seem to have given
up). But they probably have enough talent to make plenty of entertaining fantasy TV and film,
but whether it will travel so well I'm not sure.
LOL, I watched that drama too, and I'd agree. Most Chinese dramas are unwatchable, but as NiF
showed, it's not because there are no capable series makers, etc, because there are plenty of
those in China. The problem is rather the producers for whatever reason think that local audiences
are only interested in melodramas and idols dressed in ridiculous costumes.
And please, NiF is better than GoT. I am a big fan of the books, and the TV series to me is
laughable.
I just find this difficult to believe that America's diplomatic power is in decline.
After all, is the great-grandson of what was once the top dope dealer on the planet, Francis
Blackwell Forbes, now the SecState (that would be John "Forbes, Winthrop, Dudley" Kerry)?
That was all about debt slavery and a successful attempt to encircle Russia with a belt of hostile
state. Standard of living dropped more then twice since Maydan. Nationalist proved to be reliable neoliberal
tools who can fooled again and again based on their hate of Russia and help to enslave their own people
("fool me once"...) Classic divide and conquer. Nothing new. Yatsenyuk was despicable corrupt neoliberal
with fake flair of nationalism from the very beginning. he helped to sell country assets for pennies
on the a dollar and completely destroyed economic relations with Russia (why you need to love the county
to trade with it is beyond any sane person comprehension; capitalism is actually about the ability to
trade with people we hate and that's one of its strong points). Emigrant community in Canada and USA
(due to typical for emigrants heightened level of nationalism) also played a role in destruction of
economics of Ukraine. this is a very sad story of creating an African country in Europe where many people
live of less then a dollar a day and pensioners starve.
Ukraine has faded from the American national consciousness as other, even more recent and far
more spectacular foreign policy fiascos - Syria, Libya and the Islamic State - overwhelm our capacity
to catalog them.
... ... ...
Obama's delicate carrot-and-stick approach hasn't worked, and the long-simmering Ukrainian kettle
threatens to boil into the worst crisis in relations between Moscow and Washington since the Cold
War.
... ... ...
The optimism created by the 2013-2014 "EuroMaidan" street demonstrations was short-lived. Prime
Minister Arseniy Petrovych Yatsenyuk was forced to resign in April against a backdrop of permanent
political crisis and high-profile charges of corruption.
... ... ...
Perhaps most dispiriting of all, even those Ukrainian activists, politicians, and journalists
who are portrayed as true reformers appear likewise unable to resist the temptation to engage in
the systemic looting of the Ukrainian economy.
In early September, the New Yorker magazine dedicated several thousand words to three citizen-journalists
who now serve in the Ukrainian Parliament. Like other western media outlets, the New Yorker portrayed
Sergei Leshchenko, Svitlana Zalishchuk, and Mustafa Nayem as dedicated journalists - new faces who
sought election to parliament as part of President Poroshenko's bloc in the wake of the Maidan street
protests, which Nayem helped organize.
Now, however, Leshchenko's post-election acquisition of high-end housing has attracted the attention
of the Anti-Corruption Agency of Ukraine, an investigatory body that was established at the urging
of the United States. Last week, the Anti-Corruption Agency forwarded the Leshchenko file to the
special prosecutor's office tasked with corruption fighting. Leshchenko could not explain the source
of the income that allowed him to buy the residence, loan documents are missing, and the purchase
price was allegedly below market
The owner of the building, according to Ukrainian media accounts, is Ivan Fursin, the partner
of mega-oligarch Dmytro Firtash.
Recent reports have revealed that Leshchenko's expenses for attending international forums were
paid for by the oligarch Viktor Pinchuk who also contributed $8,6 million to the Clinton Foundation
While Leshchenko remains the toast of the western media and Washington think tanks, back at home,
his fellow reformers in the Parliament are calling on him to resign until his name is cleared.
Meanwhile, the next president is sure to find Ukraine besieged on all sides: With Russian troops
and pro-Russian rebels at its throat and corruption destroying it from within -and as the Leshchenko
scandal suggests, not all in Ukraine is what it appears to be.
The new president must learn to discern Ukraine's true reformers from those who made anti-corruption
crusades into a lucrative business, and be able to distinguish real action from empty words.
If not, the two and a half decades-long Ukrainian experiment with independence may boil over completely.
"Shimon Peres 2 years ago: I stopped Netanyahu from attacking Iran, and you can talk about it when I'm dead"
by Natasha Bertrand...9-30-2016...36m
" Former Israeli president Shimon Peres, who died on Wednesday at the age of 93, told the Jerusalem Post two years ago that
current Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "was ready to launch an attack" on Iran, and "I stopped him."
Peres, speaking to the Post's Steve Linde and David Brinn in a meeting at the Peres Center for Peace in Jaffa on August 24,
2014, apparently said he didn't want to go into details about the conversation he had had with Netanyahu..."
"... Flawed as he may be, Trump is telling more of the truth than politicians of our day. Most important, he offers a path away from constant war, a path of businesslike accommodation with all reasonable people and nations, concentrating our forces and efforts against the true enemies of civilization. Thus, to dwell on his faults and errors is to evade the great questions of war and peace, life and death for our people and our country. You and I will have to compensate for his deficits of civility, in return for peace, we may hope as Lincoln hoped, among ourselves and with all nations. ..."
"... No doubt, clinton supporters will snicker and deride efforts to treat Trump's positions seriously as this essay does. ..."
Flawed as he may be, Trump is telling more of the truth than politicians of our day. Most
important, he offers a path away from constant war, a path of businesslike accommodation with
all reasonable people and nations, concentrating our forces and efforts against the true enemies
of civilization. Thus, to dwell on his faults and errors is to evade the great questions of war
and peace, life and death for our people and our country. You and I will have to compensate for
his deficits of civility, in return for peace, we may hope as Lincoln hoped, among ourselves and
with all nations.
No doubt, clinton supporters will snicker and deride efforts to treat Trump's positions seriously
as this essay does.
But for anyone who is the slightest bit aware of how the maniac imperialists have hijacked
the public means of persuasion for a generation to the detriment of countless foreign countries
as well as our own, the obsession with turning Trump into a cartoon character with joke "policies"
should sound an alarm.
No "politician" was ever going to buck this system. Bernie Sanders, fiery and committed though
he was, proved that. It was always going to take an over-sized personality with an over-sized
ego to withstand the shit storm that a demand for profound change would create, and some "incivility"
seems a small price to pay to break the vice grip of the status quo.
I, for one, have no intention of squandering this opportunity to throw sand in the gears. There
has never been a third candidate allowed to plead their case in a presidential "debate" since
Ross Perot threw a scare into TPTB in 1992. Should clinton manage to pull this one out, the lesson
of Trump will be learned, and we may not be "given" the opportunity to choose an "outsider" again
for a very long time. It's worth taking a minute to separate the message from the messenger.
"... As General Smedley Butler, twice awarded the Medal of Honor, said: War is a racket . Wars will persist as long as people see them as a "core product," as a business opportunity. In capitalism, the profit motive is often amoral; greed is good, even when it feeds war. Meanwhile, the Pentagon is willing to play along. It always sees "vulnerabilities" and always wants more money. ..."
"... Wars are always profitable for a few, but they are ruining democracy in America. Sure, it's a business opportunity: one that ends in national (and moral) bankruptcy. ..."
A good friend passed along an
article at Forbes from a month ago with the pregnant title, "U.S. Army Fears Major War Likely
Within Five Years - But Lacks The Money To Prepare." Basically, the article argues that war is possible
- even likely - within five years with Russia or North Korea or Iran, or maybe all three, but that
America's army is short of money to prepare for these wars. This despite the fact that America spends
roughly $700 billion each and every year on defense and overseas wars.
Now, the author's agenda is quite clear, as he states at the end of his article: "Several of the
Army's equipment suppliers are contributors to my think tank and/or consulting clients." He's writing
an alarmist article about the probability of future wars at the same time as he's profiting from
the sales of weaponry to the army.
As General Smedley Butler, twice awarded the Medal of Honor, said:
War is a racket
. Wars will persist as long as people see them as a "core product," as a business opportunity.
In capitalism, the profit motive is often amoral; greed is good, even when it feeds war. Meanwhile,
the Pentagon is willing to play along. It always sees "vulnerabilities" and always wants more money.
But back to the Forbes article with its concerns about war(s) in five years with Russia or North
Korea or Iran (or all three). For what vital national interest should America fight against Russia?
North Korea? Iran? A few quick reminders:
#1: Don't get involved in a land war in Asia or with Russia (Charles XII, Napoleon, and Hitler
all learned that lesson the hard way).
#2: North Korea? It's a puppet regime that can't feed its own people. It might prefer war to distract
the people from their parlous existence.
#3: Iran? A regional power, already contained, with a young population that's sympathetic to America,
at least to our culture of relative openness and tolerance. If the US Army thinks tackling Iran would
be relatively easy, just consider all those recent "easy" wars and military interventions in Iraq,
Afghanistan, Libya, Syria
Of course, the business aspect of this is selling the idea the US Army isn't prepared and therefore
needs yet another new generation of expensive high-tech weaponry. It's like convincing high-end consumers
their three-year-old Audi or Lexus is obsolete so they must buy the latest model else lose face.
We see this all the time in the US military. It's a version of planned or
artificial obsolescence . Consider the Air Force. It could easily defeat its enemies with updated
versions of A-10s, F-15s, and F-16s, but instead the Pentagon plans to spend as much as $1.4 trillion
on the shiny new and
under-performing F-35 . The Army has an enormous surplus of tanks and other armored fighting
vehicles, but the call goes forth for a "new generation." No other navy comes close to the US Navy,
yet the call goes out for a new generation of ships.
The Pentagon mantra is always for more and better, which often turns out to be for less and much
more expensive, e.g. the F-35 fighter.
Wars are always profitable for a few, but they are
ruining democracy in America. Sure, it's a business opportunity: one that ends in national (and
moral) bankruptcy.
William J. Astore is a retired lieutenant colonel (USAF). He taught history for fifteen years
at military and civilian schools and blogs at
Bracing Views . He can be reached at [email protected]. Reprinted
from Bracing Views with the author's permission.
Just watched Samantha Powers speak at the emergency UN security counsel meeting on Syria, how
she managed to keep a straight face is completely beyond me.
Basically Russia needs to take responsibility for its actions in Syria and the war would be
over if those damn Russians would GTFO and quit disrupting the US and GCC regime change operations.
It appears everything would be going swimmingly if Russia would just leave the "rebels" alone
and let the US turn Syria into Libya, I mean is that so much to ask for? /S
The people Obama has chosen to represent him are almost all fanatics. Samantha Power and Ash
Carter stand out as true psychopaths. Carter actually openly defied Obama on the Syria ceasefire.
Robert Parry has an excellent piece out today on the
rush to judgment about the attack on the humanitarian convoy.
It has been particularly infuriating to see the Chanel-suited Berkeley types be the ones to
embrace imperial fascist war-making with such glee.
I happened to recognize Susan Rice travelling sans bodyguard with her girlfriend at the airport
in Chiang Mai Thailand and had a delicious time giving her a full piece of my mind. Unedited truth
to power with nowhere to hide, she reacted with a glaze that said "you are just an idiot peon"
but I could see she was shaken.
"... "Anastasia Krasnosilska of the Anti-Corruption Action Center of Ukraine, said Poroshenko has only tackled abuses because of foreign pressure and then only after lengthy foot-dragging. ..."
"... "All recent successes in the fight against corruption were made possible because of pressure from the EU, IMF, and civil society," she said to CBC News. "If it weren't for the conditionalities the foreign donors and lenders imposed, and the feeling that the eye of foreign governments is on Ukraine, there would have been no reform." ..."
"... "According to the Kyiv Post, the IMF is planning to reduce a loan to Ukraine from a planned $1.7 billion to $1 billion over corruption concerns. ..."
"... Valeria Gontareva, Poroshenko's Porsche-driving political ally and business partner who now heads the National Bank of Ukraine, says she isn't concerned. "It's not a big deal for us," she told the publication, although the shortfall is equal to the total amount Canada has given to Ukraine since the Maidan rebellion ended in February 2014." ..."
Wow;
there's still endemic corruption in Ukraine – who knew? And Poroshenko is the richest among
the leaders of Europe, while he leads what must be just about Europe's poorest country. Ordinarily,
the press would be all over a dichotomy like that. I guess reporting on Ukraine requires a suspension
of curiosity.
"Anastasia Krasnosilska of the Anti-Corruption Action Center of Ukraine, said Poroshenko
has only tackled abuses because of foreign pressure and then only after lengthy foot-dragging.
"All recent successes in the fight against corruption were made possible because of pressure
from the EU, IMF, and civil society," she said to CBC News. "If it weren't for the conditionalities
the foreign donors and lenders imposed, and the feeling that the eye of foreign governments is
on Ukraine, there would have been no reform."
And it's starting to have an effect.
"According to the Kyiv Post, the IMF is planning to reduce a loan to Ukraine from a planned
$1.7 billion to $1 billion over corruption concerns.
Valeria Gontareva, Poroshenko's Porsche-driving political ally and business partner who
now heads the National Bank of Ukraine, says she isn't concerned. "It's not a big deal for us,"
she told the publication, although the shortfall is equal to the total amount Canada has given
to Ukraine since the Maidan rebellion ended in February 2014."
And yet the Ukrainian government still keeps on mouthing it up to the country's most likely
saviour – Russia. Although things have probably gone too far for that now, thanks to the west
trying to muscle into a position where whatever Russia does to benefit Ukraine benefits the west.
What a bunch of neoliberal piranha, devouring the poorest country in Europe, where pernneers exist
on $1 a day or less, with the help of installed by Washington corrupt oligarchs (Yanukovich was installed
with Washington blessing and was controlled by Washington, who was fully aware about the level of corruption
of its government; especially his big friend vice-president Biden).
Notable quotes:
"... Mr. Kalyuzhny was also a founding board member of a Brussels-based nongovernmental organization, the European Center for a Modern Ukraine, that hired the Podesta Group, a Washington lobbying firm that received $1.02 million to promote an agenda generally aligned with the Party of Regions. ..."
"... Because the payment was made through a nongovernmental organization, the Podesta Group did not register as a lobbyist for a foreign entity. A co-founder of the Podesta Group, John D. Podesta, is chairman of Hillary Clinton's campaign, and his brother, Tony Podesta, runs the firm now. ..."
"... The Podesta Group, in a statement, said its in-house counsel determined the company had no obligation to register as a representative of a foreign entity in part because the nonprofit offered assurances it was not "directly or indirectly supervised, directed, controlled, financed or subsidized in whole or in part by a government of a foreign country or a foreign political party." ..."
"... On Monday, Mr. Manafort issued a heated statement in response to an article in The New York Times that first disclosed that the ledgers - a document described by Ukrainian investigators as an under-the-table payment system for the Party of Regions - referenced a total of $12.7 million in cash payments to him over a five-year period. ..."
"... In that statement, Mr. Manafort, who was removed from day-to-day management of the Trump campaign on Wednesday though he retained his title, denied that he had personally received any off-the-books cash payments. "The suggestion that I accepted cash payments is unfounded, silly and nonsensical," he said. ..."
MOSCOW - The Ukrainian authorities, under pressure to bolster their assertion that once-secret
accounting documents show cash payments from a pro-Russian political party earmarked for Donald J.
Trump's campaign chairman, on Thursday released line-item entries, some for millions of dollars.
The revelations also point to an outsize role for a former senior member of the pro-Russian political
party, the Party of Regions, in directing money to both Republican and Democratic advisers and lobbyists
from the United States as the party tried to burnish its image in Washington.
The former party member, Vitaly A. Kalyuzhny, for a time chairman of the Ukraine Parliament's
International Relations Committee, had signed nine times for receipt of payments designated for the
Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, according to Serhiy A. Leshchenko, a member of Parliament
who has studied the documents. The ledger covered payments from 2007 to 2012, when Mr. Manafort worked
for the party and its leader, Viktor F. Yanukovych, Ukraine's former president who was deposed.
Mr. Kalyuzhny was also a founding board member of a Brussels-based nongovernmental organization,
the European Center for a Modern Ukraine, that hired the Podesta Group, a Washington lobbying firm
that received $1.02 million to promote an agenda generally aligned with the Party of Regions.
Because the payment was made through a nongovernmental organization, the Podesta Group did
not register as a lobbyist for a foreign entity. A co-founder of the Podesta Group, John D. Podesta,
is chairman of Hillary Clinton's campaign, and his brother, Tony Podesta, runs the firm now.
The role of Mr. Kalyuzhny, a onetime computer programmer from the eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk,
in directing funds to the companies of the chairmen of both presidential campaigns, had not previously
been reported. Mr. Kalyuzhny was one of three Party of Regions members of Parliament who founded
the nonprofit.
The Associated Press, citing emails it had obtained, also reported Thursday that Mr. Manafort's
work for Ukraine included a secret lobbying effort in Washington that he operated with an associate,
Rick Gates, and that was aimed at influencing American news organizations and government officials.
Mr. Gates noted in the emails that he conducted the work through two lobbying firms, including
the Podesta Group, because Ukraine's foreign minister did not want the country's embassy involved.
The A.P. said one of Mr. Gates's campaigns sought to turn public opinion in the West against Yulia
Tymoshenko, a former Ukrainian prime minister who was imprisoned during Mr. Yanukovych's administration.
The Podesta Group, in a statement, said its in-house counsel determined the company had no
obligation to register as a representative of a foreign entity in part because the nonprofit offered
assurances it was not "directly or indirectly supervised, directed, controlled, financed or subsidized
in whole or in part by a government of a foreign country or a foreign political party."
Reached by phone on Thursday, a former aide to Mr. Kalyuzhny said he had lost contact with the
politician and was unsure whether he remained in Kiev or had returned to Donetsk, now the capital
of a Russian-backed separatist enclave.
Ukrainian officials emphasized that they did not know as yet if the cash payments reflected in
the ledgers were actually made. In all 22 instances, people other than Mr. Manafort appear to have
signed for the money. But the ledger entries are highly specific with funds earmarked for services
such as exit polling, equipment and other services.
On Monday, Mr. Manafort issued a heated statement in response to an article in The New York
Times that first disclosed that the ledgers - a document described by Ukrainian investigators as
an under-the-table payment system for the Party of Regions - referenced a total of $12.7 million
in cash payments to him over a five-year period.
In that statement, Mr. Manafort, who was removed from day-to-day management of the Trump campaign
on Wednesday though he retained his title, denied that he had personally received any off-the-books
cash payments. "The suggestion that I accepted cash payments is unfounded, silly and nonsensical,"
he said.
Mr. Manafort's statement, however, left open the possibility that cash payments had been made
to his firm or associates. And details from the ledgers released Thursday by anticorruption investigators
suggest that may have occurred. Three separate payments, for example, totaling nearly $5.7 million
are earmarked for Mr. Manafort's "contract."
Another, from October 2012, suggests a payment to Mr. Manafort of $400,000 for exit polling, a
legitimate campaign outlay.
Two smaller entries, for $4,632 and $854, show payments for seven personal computers and a computer
server.
The payments do not appear to have been reported by the Party of Regions in campaign finance disclosures
in Ukraine. The party's 2012 filing indicates outlays for expenses other than advertising of just
under $2 million, at the exchange rate at the time. This is less than a single payment in the black
ledger designated for "Paul Manafort contract" in June of that year for $3.4 million.
Ukrainian investigators say they consider any under-the-table payments illegal, and that the ledger
also describes disbursements to members of the central election committee, the group that counts
votes.
Correction: August 20, 2016
Because of an editing error, an article on Friday about the political activities in Ukraine of
Donald J. Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, misidentified the office once held by
Yulia V. Tymoshenko, a rival of Mr. Manafort's client, the former president Viktor F. Yanukovych.
Ms. Tymoshenko served as prime minister of Ukraine, not its president.
The other day on the pages of "Correspondent" that quoted figures given by the State Statistics
Service there was published data on the Ukrainian demographic catastrophe. It turns out that the
population of the Ukraine (excluding the Crimea) as of January 1, 2016, amounted to 42,76,500
people, which is 6.3% or 2,873,000 persons fewer than there were in January 1, 2012 .
That is to say, the number of Ukrainian citizens has been reduced by approximately 3 million
people over a period of 5 years. If this sad trend continues, then in 70 years no "Ukrainians"
will remain.
Ukraine's State Bureau of Investigation (SBI) has opened criminal proceedings regarding the possible
organization by former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko of illegal crossing through the border with the use of fake
documents, the SBI has reported on its Facebook page.
"SBI investigators will check reports on former President Petro Poroshenko organizing illegal crossing through the state
border of Ukraine with the use of deliberately forged documents," the report reads.
In particular, the report specifies that it will be established during the investigation whether officials of the customs and
border authorities included deliberately false information in official documents in order to ensure border crossing.
Former Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Andriy Portnov reported earlier that according to his statement, the SBI
opened a criminal case to check possible violations of border crossing "by persons close to Poroshenko in 2018 under other
people's passports to the Maldives archipelago."
Recent opinion polls show 70 percent of Ukrainians supporting Yatsenyuk's ouster and only one
percent backing his People's Front parliamentary bloc.
IMF chief Christine Lagarde warned last week that it was "hard to see" how the bailout could continue
without Ukraine pushing through the economic restructuring and anti-corruption measures it had signed
on to when the package was agreed.
Ukraine's economy shrank by about 10 percent last year while annual inflation soared to more than
43 percent even with the Western assistance in place.
"... This university investigation concluded that the massacre was a false flag operation, which was rationally planned and executed with the aim to overthrow the government and seize power. ..."
Ivan Katchanovski, professor of political science at the University of Ottawa, conducted a study
on the massacre perpetrated by snipers on the Maidan square of Kiev in February, 2014.
This document, from a presentation to the American Association of Political Sciences in San Francisco
in September 2015, is the first academic study on this event.
It uses rational choice theory and Weber's theory of instrumental rationality to examine the actions
of key players from both the Yanukovich government, specifically various police and security forces,
and opposition, especially of the extreme right and oligarchic elements, during the massacre.
The paper analyzes a large amount of material available from different sources: about 1500 videos
and recordings from the internet and television in different countries (about 150 gigabytes), newsletters
and social media messages from a hundred journalists covering the massacre of Kiev, about 5000 photos,
and nearly 30 gigabytes of radio interceptions of snipers and commanders of the Alfa unit of the
Security Service of Ukraine and Ministry troops of the Interior and finally records of the massacre
trial. This study is also based on field research on the massacre site, witness' reports from both
camps, the commanders of the special units, the statements made by current and former government
officials, approximate estimates of ballistic trajectories, bullets and weapons used and the types
of injuries on both sides. This study establishes a specific timetable for the various events of
the massacre, the shooters locations and the precise timing and location of the death of nearly 50
protesters.
This university investigation concluded that the massacre was a false flag operation, which was
rationally planned and executed with the aim to overthrow the government and seize power.
Ivan Katchanovski teaches at the School of Political Studies at the University of Ottawa. He has
been a visiting scholar at the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Harvard University,
visiting Assistant Professor in the Department of Political Science at the State University of New
York at Potsdam, postdoctoral fellow at the Political Science Department at the University of Toronto
and Kluge Postdoctoral Fellow at the Kluge Center at the Library of Congress.
And make no doubt about it – a collapse is exactly what it is, and it afflicts way more of the country
than just the war-wracked Donbass. Ukraine now vies with Moldova for the country with the lowest
average wages in Europe.
Gabon with snow
? Saakashvili is hopelessly optimistic. That would actually be a big improvement!
GDP is at 60% of its 1990 Level
As of this year, the country with the most pro-Western revolutions is also the poorest performing
post-Soviet economy bar none. This is a not unimpressive achievement considering outcomes here have
tended to disappoint rather than elate. Russia itself, current GDP at about 110% of its 1990 level,
has nothing to write home about (though "statist" Belarus, defying neoliberal conventional wisdom,
at a very respectable 200% does have something to boast about).
Back in 2010 ,
although by far the worst performing heavily industrialized Soviet economy, Ukraine was still performing
better relative to its position in 1990 than Moldova, Tajikistan, and Georgia. In the intervening
5 years – with a 7% GDP decline in 2014 which has widened
to a projected
9% in 2015 – Ukraine
has managed to slip to rock bottom .
How does this look like on a more human level?
Housing Construction is Similar to That of 5 Million Population Russian Provinces
With a quarter of its population, Belarus is
constructing as much new accomodation as is Ukraine. 16 million strong Kazakhstan is building
more. Russia – more than ten times as much, even though it has less than four times as many people.
The seaside Russian province of Krasnodar Krai, which hosted the Sochi Winter Olympics, with its
5 million inhabitants, is still constructing more than half as much housing as all of Ukraine. No
wonder the Crimeans were so eager to leave.
New Vehicle Sales Collapse to 1960s Levels
The USSR might have famously concentrated on guns over butter, yet even so, even in terms of an
item as infamously difficult to acquire as cars under socialism,
Ukrainian consumers were better off
during the 1970-1990 period than today. Now Ukrainians are buying as few new cars as they were
doing in the catastrophic 1990s, and fewer even than during the depth of the 2009 recession.
And even so many Maidanists continue to giggle at "sovoks" and "vatniks." Well, at least they
now make up for having even less butter than before with the
Azovets "innovative tank." Armatas are quaking in fear looking at that thing.
Debt to GDP Ratio at Critical Levels
And this
figure would have risen further to around 100% this year.
Note that 60% is usually considered to be the critical danger zone for emerging market economies.
This is the approximate level at which both Russia and Argentina fell into their respective sovereign
debt crises.
To be fair, the IMF
has
indicated it will be partial to flouting its own rules to keep Ukraine afloat, which is not too
surprising since it is ultimately a tool of Western geopolitical influence. And if as projected the
Ukrainian economy begins to recover this year, then there is a fair chance that crisis will ultimately
be averted.
But it will be a close shave, and so long as the "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" oligarchs
who rule Ukraine
continue siphoning off money by the billions to their offshore accounts with impunity, nothing
can be ruled out.
Resumption of Demographic Collapse
Much like the rest of the post-Soviet Slavic world, Russia had a disastrous 1990s in demographic
terms, when mortality rates soared and birth rates plummeted. But like Russia – if to a lesser extent
– it has since staged a modest recovery, incidentally with the help of a Russian-style "maternal
capital" program. In 2008, it reached a plateau in birth rates, which was not significantly uninterrupted
by the 2009 recession.
Since then, however, they have plummeted –
exactly nine months after the February 2014 coup. The discreteness with which this happened together
with the fact that the revolt in the Donbass took a further couple of months to get going after the
coup proper implies that this fertility decline was likely a direct reaction to the Maidan and what
it portended for the future.
This collapse is very noticeable even after you completely remove all traces of Crimea, Donetsk,
and Lugansk oblasts which might otherwise muddy the waters (naturally, the demographic crisis in
all its aspects has been much worse in the region that bore the brunt of Maidanist chiliastic fervor).
Here are
the Ukrstat figures for births and deaths in the first ten months of 2013, 2014, and 2015:
Births
Deaths
2013
350658
441331
2014
354622
445236
2015
329308
450763
Furthermore, this period has seen a huge wave of emigration. Figures can only be guesstimated,
but it is safe to say they are well over a million to both Russia and the EU.
The effects of this will continue to be felt long after any semblance of normalcy returns to Ukraine.
Exports of goods and services of Ukrainian production in 2015 will fall by about a third. And
this is not surprising: as a result of "reforms" in the country almost died the industry lost its
main Russian market, where Ukraine has supplied products with high added value. The cumulative figure
of industrial production YTD is approximately -15%. The main export product of Ukraine for the first
time since the pre-industrial era were products of agriculture. In the first place - corn.
Exports of goods and services of Ukrainian production in 2015 will fall by about a third. And
this is not surprising: as a result of "reforms" in the country almost died the industry lost its
main Russian market, where Ukraine has supplied products with high added value. The cumulative figure
of industrial production YTD is approximately -15%. The main export product of Ukraine for the first
time since the pre-industrial era were products of agriculture. In the first place - corn.
Exports of goods and services of Ukrainian production in 2015 will fall by about a third. And
this is not surprising: as a result of "reforms" in the country almost died the industry lost its
main Russian market, where Ukraine has supplied products with high added value. The cumulative figure
of industrial production YTD is approximately -15%. The main export product of Ukraine for the first
time since the pre-industrial era were products of agriculture. In the first place - corn.
This is incredible that that the functioning of the state cabinet behaves like this. Incredible
the results the US delivers to the world. Very sad. I feel for the people of Ukraine and their
suffering. This would not be happening if the coup had not happened. Sakashvilli is a wanted man
in his own country and should not be in Ukraine. He should have been sent back to Georgia to face
the charges. Unbelievable.
aprescoup
Afghanistan a basket case; Iraq a basket case; Libya a basket full of jihadi terrorists; Syria,
if not for the Russian aid, would be ISIS central and a basket case, and then this example of
American values playing out in the basket case of Ukraine...
"... How could Ukraine's government deficit only be 4.1% when its currency has crashed, it has lost most of its sources of income and it has just defaulted on its debt? What the fuck are they talking about? ..."
"... First, there is no way on God's green earth that there is a negative difference of only 4.1% between Ukraine's annual revenues and its annual expenditures, especially since it has almost no revenues except from taxation. ..."
Start shovelin' in the money, IMF, because Ukraine has the magic formula – just refuse to pay
what you owe, call it a 'temporary suspension of payments' instead of 'a default', and reap the
reward for your display of responsibility.
I foresee the mileage Russia is going to get out of this will far exceed the value of the $3
Billion.
marknesop, December 19, 2015 at 8:47 pm
How could Ukraine's government deficit only be 4.1% when its currency has crashed, it has
lost most of its sources of income and it has just defaulted on its debt? What the fuck are they
talking about?
"The proposed budget would work to reduce the government's deficit from 4.1% to 3.7%, with
measures including an increase in revenue by widening the tax base."
First, there is no way on God's green earth that there is a negative difference of only
4.1% between Ukraine's annual revenues and its annual expenditures, especially since it has almost
no revenues except from taxation.
And now the IMF expects to realize more revenue from widening the tax base – yes, I can imagine
what a popular initiative that is. Now you know how Yushchenko felt, Yatsie, when the IMF denied
him a second big loan because he refused to eliminate the gas subsidies to residents.
Now the IMF has finally realized that triumph through a different leader, and it wants to see
even more tax revenue. You are about to be as popular as a turd in the punch bowl; have fun with
that.
kirill, December 20, 2015 at 12:58 pm
I would not trust any GDP numbers from the Kiev regime either. They lost 25% of the economy
in the Donbas alone not counting Crimea. This has knock on effects to the rest of Banderastan.
Yet they are yapping about some 12% contraction in 2015 after a 7% contraction in 2014. I see
no clear indication that they are counting the GDP only for regime controlled Banderastan.
As for the budget, according to regime officials, Banderastan lost 30% of its hard currency
revenues with the loss of the Donbass. I estimate the tax loss to Kiev to be about 30% as well.
The Donbass was the industrialized part of the country while western Banderastan is primarily
agrarian. So talk about 4% shortfalls in revenue is utter rubbish. In most countries the money
making parts of the economy subsidize the rest and sure as hell it was not western Banderastan
that was subsidizing the Donbass. That was just virulent blood libel such as the claim that Russians
settled eastern Ukraine only after the Holodomor.
marknesop, December 20, 2015 at 1:13 pm
Europe deserves Ukraine. Let them have it, the quicker the better. It's fine when Yats is selling
that stinking mess to his simple-minded constituents, but European policymakers will see through
it right away. Unfortunately, Brussels knows better than to bring Ukraine any closer into the
fold, because if they get a visa-free regime, the place will empty out in a week as Ukrainians
flee throughout Europe (which is already, everyone must know, full of refugees) looking for jobs.
The Donbas Battalion declares: "Should a single city be surrendered, the president will
fly off his chair, there will be a military coup and the soldiers will take power into their own
hands."
In an interview with channel TVi, the commander of the Donbas Battalion, Taras
Konstanchuk, stated that if the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, surrenders a single kilometer
of Ukrainian land in negotiations with the "DNR" and "LNR", he can expect a military coup and the
central government will be seized by soldiers.
He added that every time the soldiers feel that the deputies of the Verkhovna Rada are adopting
incorrect or useless laws, they will come and set fire to tyres before the parliament building.
"Until we start controlling what they actually do, nothing will make sense. We should come into
the building and say: "What kind of laws are you adopting, you lazy bums? There's only one way you'll
leave here, and that's feet first."- said Konstanchuk.
On Tuesday, October 4, the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, repealed the law on the special
status of Donbas.
So if this news is true, how did Ratsenyuk become a Canadian citizen and where did he live
in Canada for three out of the last four years? Doesn't the Ukrainian Consitution forbid dual
or multiple citizenships for Ukrainian citizens (unless their names are Ihor Kolomoisky)? Is
this an indication that Victoria Cookie Monster has given up on him and wants to distance herself
from anything to do with Ratsie?
I nominate "Yats" for the 2015 chutzpah Nobel prize
Unian reports:
Russia should pay for the restoration of Donetsk and Luhansk, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatseniuk
said on Sunday, according to Ukrainian online newspaper Ukrainska Pravda.
If I were a rich man...
"As for the reconstruction of the Donbas - I think it is logical to put the question of reparations
to the Russian Federation. They destroyed the Donbas, and Russia should pay for the restoration
of Donetsk and Luhansk," Yatseniuk said.
"They [Russia] have destroyed our economy, they carried out a military intervention, a military
aggression. And they should be held responsible for that," he said.
As reported earlier, in December 2014 Yatseniuk said that Ukraine submitted a number of lawsuits
against the Russian Federation seeking compensation for damage caused by its military aggression.
Earlier, Yatseniuk said that the amount of damage from the military actions in the east of Ukraine
totaled $8 billion.
"Recently, we have assessed the rebuilding of infrastructure as UAH 8 billion. Now the hryvnia can
be replaced with a dollar," Yatseniuk said.
-------
Saker commentary: so "Iats" is saying that it was the Russian Federation which destroyed the Donbass,
not the junta's artillery. Nevermind that while the junta was laying waste to Novorussia the Russian
Federation was sending numerous convoys of aid to the Donbass which Kiev (and Uncle Sam) declared
an "invasion". "Yats" also seems believe that Russia ought to rebuilt a Donbass even though he also
seems to want the Donbass to remain part of his Banderastan. I hereby nominate Iats for the "chutzpah
Nobel prize for 2015".
Terry
I seem to recall the definition of Chutzpah is: A child who murders his parents for their
money, and then throws himself on the mercy of the court on the grounds he is a orphan. Seems
to fit.
Anonymous
How are Yats and such people simply not taken out?
Disciples of complete lunacy are being tolerated. Europe has shown a truly dark face. Talking
in such ways as Yats does should be a life sentence. Europeans and Americans must stop accepting
such low standards from their eaders.
Are there no polite ninjas in the Russian Army, surely Kadyrov has some assassins with boots
on.
Russia understands they are in a time of war. Even if you want peace you're still going to have
to swing the stick... No time to be shy.
This whole slow to saddle, fast to ride identity might consider taking a few lessons from the
early bird. Snatch a few premptive meals before the next black floperation flags false from
Obama.
Anonymous
While ago it was a proposal on this blog from somebody that these days politician should
be checked by MRI /their brain / for their level of psychopathy.
I think this poor thing Yats should be diagnosed as soon as possible before he will have
another idea.
anderson said...
'Yats' as Victoria Nuland likes to call him is a war criminal.
At some time, hopefully in the very near future, the world order shall change.
Yats and his cohorts should then expect a Milosovich type trial to account for there terrible
crimes.
If the 'arc of the universe' does bend ever so slightly towards justice (as MLK famously opined)
then Obama, Cameron, Bush, Blair, Cheney and a cast of many others should anticipate also joining
Yats for the atrocities they perpetrated on the world.
If it was good enough for the original Nazi, it's surely good enough for this last generation
of cowards and genocidal maniacs.
Anonymous said...
Trouble brewing in Kiev it seems.
Some reports of Poroshenko's family leaving Ukraine on a charter flight.
Apparently he travelled to Brussels after Minsk to rustle up political asylum elsewhere.
ALSO a very concerning claim that the US have a mini-nuke ready to rip in Debaltsevo and for
RF to be blamed in another MH17 style comedy farce that's not at all funny.
Infor per Lada Ray (who does on occasion have good information ahead of time).
Like she says, if any of it's ture then critical to get the message out to put the kibosh on
the puppet masters' plans
I know the US has done this in some parts of south america.. But we have not heard
of it being done in ukraine. True or not? There have been so many horrible things that this
is not at the top of the list but it would just give credence to preplanning far longer.
...................................
What Kiev forces have done to people will be a subject of many books in the future I should
imagine. There's some truly horrific things that rival the brutality of Nazi Germany or even
modern day Islamic State.
Prior to the coup, there was a list put together by the CIA containing all people that might
represent a threat to the new Kiev regime, including their next of kin, their phone numbers,
cars they drove, addresses etc. Mercenaries appeared in every major city days after the coup,
and started hunting for these individuals and securing government buildings. If targets couldn't
be found, they abducted their families.
I watched an interview the other day with a militia leader who's son and father were both taken
to get at him. The son was chained behind a vehicle and dragged along until he died of a heart
ache / shock. His body was found just dumped at the side of the road.
Not a great deal of news is coming out of Kiev controlled areas, but there's a lot of murders
happening. Hundreds, if not thousands. And this is how Kiev is treating civilians, I dread to
imagine how kindly they treat captured fighters.
At first glance it may seem that the future is dark and uncertain, especially immediate future.
But actually in all events there is a hidden logic (which may annoy some with particular agenda),
and based on this logic certain thing can be predicted. Because any society (and humanity in General)
operates in accordance with certain laws and cannot violate laws of "celestial mechanics" of human
societies.
To understand how the situation will develop, it is necessary to understand who are real the
parties of the conflict and what are their motivations. The most important aspects of the current
Ukrainian conflict, at first glance, with different degrees of involvement are the following six:
Ukraine, Novorossia, USA, Russia, EU and China.
Postulate 1. Maidan in Ukraine happened because China has overtaken the United States.
It is not clear? Any Doubts? Let me explain.
Age-old cycle of hegemony, when one of the Imperial country is losing the leadership in the world
economy to the another country may well be in place as for the USA and China. At some point things
became irreversible and as substantial part of the capital (and production capacity) inevitably
flows into the new center. And the old hegemon, as usual, clinging to the last straws of leadership
and, as usual, those desperate attempts does not work.
In this sense nothing new under the sun, and such cycles occurred a hundred, two hundred, three
hundred years ago and further back into history. The last time UK lost leadership to the USA (unleashing
two world wars to fight back this slide, but it did not help), before it was the domination of Paris,
Madrid, Antwerp, Genoa and so on.
Falling hegemon is experiencing a phenomenon known as "Imperial exhaustion" (It's very
expensive to contain hundreds of military bases all over the planet; troops are tired to kill and
die for wars which are fought for goals they do not understood and do not share). There is a rapidly
growing number of people in the USA living on food stamps. China in 2014 is still had grown in 2014
with official figure of 7% GDP growth.
So it might well be an attempts to protect the hegemony of the U.S. that caused unleashing a
new conflict throughout the world, and Ukraine (as well as Russian which are the main target) is
just an episode of this "strategy" of containment of China.
So if you think that Ukraine is waging war against Russia (or Vice versa), you are wrong. IMHO,
it's the US fight against rising China. While Russia, Ukraine and the EU here, only the players
of the second order, being simultaneously players and "prizes" of this conflict.
Postulate 2. Neither Russia nor Ukraine nor EU are the main parties to the conflict.
Most have probably seen the famous film with Mel Gibson "Braveheart". Remember the episode, when
the British king throws Irish infantry against the Scottish rebels. Can we say that Ireland is at
war against Scotland? No, that Britain is at war against Scotland using the hands of the Irish.
Is there anything in this episode any political identity among the Irish? It appears only at
the moment when they decide to go to the side of the rebels (before they didn't choose this, they
were puppets).
How "appreciates" the British king his "Irish nationals" show when he orders British archers to
fire into the crowd, where everything is mixed together, not sparing "their" and massively hitting
them with "friendly fire".
The Parallels are obvious. So Ukrainians now are infantry of the American imperialists (who also
the Anglo-Saxons, among other things) and those puppets are thrown to the slaughter like regular
cannon fodder, completely without worrying about losses.
The motivation of the parties
China does not want to confront the United States. He would prefer not to fight, allowing the
States to quietly fade, but Beijing is well aware that, most likely, this strategy will not work,
and the Washington hawks will try to arrange if not direct conflict, but at least a number of local
conflicts on the periphery, trying to "encircle" Chine. If Ukrainian conflict destabilized Russia,
China would soothe, as it will make the transit of its goods to the EU more difficult and more dangerous
(however, most of it takes place in other ways, so it's not the strategic direction for China).
The US elite needs a war. At any price. Until the last Ukrainian. To break the trade, economic,
financial and energy ties between the EU and Russia is their strategic objective in Ukraine. Even
if to achieve this purpose you need to turn the entire country into ashes. After Vietnam, Somalia,
Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya and other "democratized" countries we have no doubt that this
objective is quite achievable.
However, the Russian decision about the upcoming termination of gas transit through the territory
of Ukraine deals a serious blow to those plans. Now energy can be supplied by other route.
The only chance to do mischief, is to completely poison relations of Russia and the EU, so that
that EU politically preferred gas from other sources. That's why "sanctions" were imposed and that's
why they meets more and more resistance in Europe.
Russia needs in Ukraine peace and tranquility as well a neutral military status. If it
were not Russophobic EuroMaidan, Gazprom will still supplied gas to EU through the Ukrainian gas
transport system. It does not need extra expenses to build another pipeline, and it would be easier
to order many products at Ukrainian plants than to create from scratch a new or search for alternative
suppliers of similar products in the EU and Asia. And even the operation "Crimea is ours" would
not be necessary, because the lease of fleet base in Sevastopol was until 2042. It was a direct
reaction of EuroMaidan. The "Euro-integrators" that came to power proclaim that they will take
"Moskals" on knives and break all economic relations with Russia. Or rather, not them, but the Producers
of this staged performance, suppliers of cookies. And even now Russia is trying to defuse the situation
and offered situation, arranging negotiations and supplying to Ukraine hydrocarbons and electricity,
despite all the attempts of the Kiev regime and behind them the Americans to escalate the confrontation
to open war.
The EU wanted to gain access to Ukrainian markets, so it willingly got involved in this adventure
with the "European integration". They, and first of all Merkel, tried to play neoliberal economic
expansion card. Now, a year later, when the Ukrainian market was destroyed and became much less
interesting (given the apparent lack of purchasing power), the EU wants to jump out of the financial
costs of the situation they created, became it became an apparent financial burden and will not
bring any profits in foreseeable future. Preferably without losing face. But the main motivation
of the EU now, of course, "out of sight, out of mind". constantly and aggressive begging for financial
assistance Yatsenyuk and Poroshenko became to annoy their European benefactors.
Novorossia wants "junta" leave it alone. They agree to "never we will be brothers". They are
to be a "depressed region" and so on. It would be great that those Kiev guys quietly march to Europe,
and stopped send tanks and artillery to Donbass as demonstration of their slogan "nationalism
is love" and "patriotism is above everything" (as in Deutschland uber Alles).
And Ukraine in as a country not can't want anything. In order to want something, you need to
be a little bit more independent. Meanwhile the Ukrainian junta tries to impose on everybody
such intrinsic "European value" as unitalism, reckless militarism "aka glory to heroes", the hatred
of the Russians (the "quilted jackets" and "Colorados bugs") and things like that. And while the
Ukrainians don't start thinking with YOUR head and YOUR interests, they will continue to be managed
by the Georgian and Baltic protégés of the USA, providing control over the disenfranchised colony,
which Ukraine has become through the efforts of those who organized the Maidan.
And while Ukraine remains an object under external management, Ukrainians will continue to be
send to slaughter. The US needs a war, so a few days ago, the junta forces has increased the intensity
of the shelling of Donetsk, Lugansk and other cities, provoking retaliatory counterattack from Novorossia
militia.
What will happen next? It's obvious. If troops and battalions of Kiev were unable to suppress
the militia in the summer 2014 when they had a huge superiority in armor and artillery (I'm not
talking about the presence of aircraft). Now the more they gamble, and for example try to attack
the Donetsk, in my opinion, the more hopeless for them situation will develop. Violating the Minsk
agreement, they untied the factions of the militia, which now displaces "cyborgs" from the airport,
liberated several villages in the North, came close to Schastye (Happiness) and meeting no resistance,
entered the suburbs of Mariupol.
I have very strong doubts that pensioners, which Poroshenko going to throw into battle, can change
the military situation at the East. Many of them lost their former military skills and physical
conditioning (and I doubt that any of them even will want to go there). And "hurrah-patriots" who
hate "vatu", are sitting on the Internet in their comfortable offices. They will not volunteer iether.
Therefore, after the coming defeat of the current group near Donetsk, there will be not many people
to protect junta in Kiev.
Meanwhile the Polish Embassy is now stormed the crowd of people wishing to obtain a card of a
pole or a visa. All flights from Ukraine to Russia are completely booked (although thanks Russophobic
policy regime in Kiev with the new year to find a job Ukrainians in Russia has become much more
difficult, however, still easier then to get a visa in the EU).
People are fleeing en masse from "westernized" of Ukraine – from war, from unemployment,
from lawlessness of "ATO death squads", from new taxes and exorbitant utility bills, from the endless
stream of lies and hatred in the media, from roaming the streets armed crazies and other calamities
brought to the country by Euromaidan color revolution...
The U.S. and other Western governments are criticizing Kiev's tardiness in putting together a
government following October elections - with suspicions that the delay is due to rivalry between
Poroshenko and Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk over control of key portfolios.
... ... ...
But commentators say Poroshenko wants his candidate in the sensitive post of interior minister -
though filling this post falls within the prerogative of the Prime Minister rather than that of
the President.
With the country at war, this would give Poroshenko,
rather than Yatseniuk, control over a post which directs the National Guard and volunteer battalions
fighting alongside government forces against the separatists.
Yatseniuk, however, is said to be insisting that he keep
the right to appoint the post, and keep his man Arsen Avakov in situ.
Yatseniuk has steadily taken on the role of a hawk in Poroshenko's
administration with strongly-worded attacks on Russia and Russia's Vladimir Putin.
Correct me if I am wrong
To form a government is about who will control prosecution machine for deputies who will
not have immunity and who will control distribution of Western aid. These are critical questions
of power and they cannot be solved rapidly.
jon
US forced them to hold election and now this. There is no ending after you become American's
poodle.
CFA
I love to see those two happy, fatty faces smiling and laughing while the rest of population
sinking in poverty, corruption and civil war.... What a world!
Wolfowitz Doctrine
The US plan after the coup d'état was ALWAYS to kill the political opposition. Just like
the US did (or tired to do) when it invaded Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan and Kosovo.
Generally the US uses its proxy NATO to kill the opposition .
Newborn
For Poroshenko to build a democracy in Ukraine he has to first dismiss all the oligarchs
starting with himself. Then, he has to pay the debt to Russia without a new debt to Europe.
Otherwise Ukraine will become the new Greece.
And Europe cannot bear two Greece at the same time.
Dennis
Key figures in the battalion include its commander Andriy Biletsky and his deputie Oleh Odnoroshenko.[1]
A 16 July 2014 report placed the Azov Battalian's strength at 300.[1] An earlier report stated
that on June 23 almost 600 volunteers, including women, took oaths to joined the "Donbass" and
"Azov" battalions.[23] Recruits receive a salary of $360.[24]
The political organization Social-National Assembly led by the battalion's leader Biletsky calls
for the expansion of Ukraine, the "struggle for the liberation of the entire White Race," and
seeks to "punish severely sexual perversions and any interracial contacts."[1] Swedish volunteer
Mikael Skillt told the BBC that while the Battalion did include others sharing his views - those
calling themselves national socialists or adorned with swastikas - not all agreed, and one member
was even "a liberal."[1]
Interviewed while engaged in military operations in eastern Ukraine, one member of the battalion
stated that the unit was on edge because they were "behind enemy lines" and opposed by "the
police, the army and the people," whom he said they did not trust.[3] According to London's
Sunday Times, the Azov Battalion was deployed against militants by the Ukrainian government
because it feared its regular forces were infiltrated by Russian sympathizers.[3]
Peter
Three years after World War I broke out, the Russian Revolution toppled the Czar. Jacob Schiff
of Kuhn, Loeb & Company bragged on his deathbed that he had spent $20 million towards the defeat
of the Czar. But the truth was that much of that money funded the communist coup d'etat replacing
the democratically elected Kerensky regime, which had replaced the Czar months earlier.
The bankers were not so much enemies of the Czar, as they were intent on seizing power in Russia,
through the Bolsheviks. Three gold shipments in 1920 alone, from Lenin to Kuhn, Loeb & Company
and Morgan Guaranty Trust repaid the $20 million to the bankers, and this was just a small down
payment.
But would some of the richest men in the world financially back communism, the system that was
openly vowing to destroy the so-called capitalism that made them wealthy? Communism, like plutocracy,
is a product of capitalism. Researcher Gary Allen explained it was this way:
"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method
to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting
socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool for
power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism or more accurately, socialism, is not a
movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite."
As W. Cleon Skousen put it in his 1970 book The Naked Capitalist:
"Power from any source tends to create an appetite for additional power... It was almost inevitable
that the super-rich would one day aspire to control not only their own wealth, but the wealth
of the whole world. To achieve this, they were perfectly willing to feed the ambitions of the
power-hungry political conspirators who were committed to the overthrow of all existing governments
and the establishment of a central world-wide dictatorship."
But what if these revolutionaries get out of control and try to seize power from the Money Changers?
After all, it was Mao Tse-tung who in 1938 stated his position concerning power:
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
The London/Wall Street axis elected to take the risk. The master-planners attempted to control
revolutionary communist groups by feeding them vast quantities of money when they obeyed, and
contracting their money supply, or even financing their opposition or fascist parties in bordering
nations, if they got out of control. Lenin began to understand that although he was the dictator
of the new Soviet Union, he was not pulling the financial strings, someone else was silently
in control:
"The state does not function as we desired. The car does not obey. A man is at the wheel and
seems to lead it, but the car does not drive in the desired direction. It moves as another force
wishes."
Who was behind it?
Rep. Louis T. McFadden, the Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee throughout
the 1920s and into the Great Depression years of the 1930s, explained it this way:
"The course of Russian history has, indeed, been greatly affected by the operations of international
bankers... The Soviet Government has been given United States Treasury funds by the Federal
Reserve Board ... acting through the Chase Bank England has drawn money from us through the
Federal Reserve banks and has re-lent it at high rates of interest to the Soviet Government...
The Dnieperstory Dam was built with funds unlawfully taken from the United States Treasury by
the corrupt and dishonest Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks."
In other words, the Fed and the Bank of England, along with their controlling stock-holders,
the Rothschilds, Rockefellers,Morgans, Schiffs, Warburgs, etc., were creating a monster, one
which would fuel seven decades of unprecedented Communist revolution, warfare, and most importantly
- debt.
The Soviet Union was also a useful counterbalance to Germany, and later to the U.S., until 1989
with its dismemberment into fifteen countries. .. ] The Money Masters 1996 -thanks
... ... ...
Van
Peter kinda sounds like you read that darn book (it is a good one though) written by Risen
(Pay Any Price: Greed and Endless War). However, I did not dare click on MORE.... for the fear
that your post is probably two mile long. LOL
Dennis
In a U.N. vote, on November 21st, only three countries - the United States, Ukraine, and
Canada - voted against a resolution to condemn racist facsism, or "#$%$m," and to condemn denial
of Germany's World War II Holocaust primarily against Jews.
This measure passed the General Assembly, on a vote of 115 in favor, 3 against, and 55 abstentions
(the abstentions were in order not to offend U.S. President Obama, who was opposed to the resolution).
The measure had been presented to their General Assembly after a period of more than a decade
of rising "neo-Nazi" (i.e., racist-fascist) movements in Europe, including especially in Ukraine,
where two Ukrainian nazi parties were installed by the U.S. into high posts in Ukraine's new
government, immediately after the democratically elected Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych
was overthrown in a violent coup in Kiev during February of this year. The entire Ukrainian
'defense' establishment was then immediately taken over by the leaders of these two nazi parties,
which rabidly hate ethnic Russians, and Ukraine is now led by the first - and so far, the only
- nazi government to take charge of any country after the end of WW II. Within less than a mere
three months after the coup, this new Government began an ethnic-cleansing program in Ukraine's
own ethnic-Russian southeast, where around 90% of the residents had voted for the man who had
been overthrown in the coup - this was a campaign to isolate and exterminate those people, so
that those voters could never again participate in a Ukrainian national election. Unless those
voters would be eliminated, these #$%$ would be elected out of power - removed from office.
Debian
Petro Poroshenko wants aid and a lot of money. He will do anything we say to him because
he is a corrupt sob. Little does he know that we are not out there for him or his Nasi Socialist
government, we will manipulate him just as long as his country goes down and causes the same
domino effect to Russia.
I could imagine this idiot knows that Russia has a huge target on him...for been a traitor
to his country men and slave to the west. No turning back...Nevertheless, we should NOT pay
his country's gas and benefits. That's promoting socialism with money we don't have...
We have our own problems...no jobs, illegal immigration, health care, education system going
down, VA system, bad infrastructure (poor roads and bridges), Internet monopolies, illegal spying
on American ciitizens, corrupt congress men, two party corrupt system...and much more
Debian
Western Ukraine are the Nasis who klilled 100k people during WW2, their Serial Killer and
killer, Stepan Bandera would go to farms and cut the throats of families and killed a lot of
children. Bandera was working with the Nasis...and escaped to Germany until he got killed...glad
they killed the SOB.
michael
This is 2014 doofus. Russia starved 4 Million Ukrainians in the 30's.
walt
Micael, are you implying that Stalin's policies justify massacre of women and children, like
it was in Volhiyn in 1943? Does it justify a genocide in Donetsk and Lugansk. Bandera trash
have destroyed Ukraine, not Russians
David
Debian and walt, there are no Bandera in Ukraine. That's Russian propaganda. There are Ukrainian
nationalists who border on fascism, just like there are pro-Russian fascists, such Pavel Guberov,
who are on Russia's side. Even in Russia there are fascists, such as Alexander Dugin, who is
influential in Kremlin circles.
Since WWII Russia has always labeled its enemies as fascists and neo-n@zzis. That doesn't make
it true. In the last election the right-wing nationalist got less than 5% of the vote. If the
Ukrainians really wanted fascists and if the fascists were really so powerful, then they would
have gotten a larger share of the vote.
I also know that arguing with people who talk about fascists and Banderas in Ukraine is probably
a waste of time, I wanted to make sure that you knew that there are many people in the West
who think you are full of propaganda BS and there are other readers that will see posts like
mine and see that pro-Russian like you are only spewing propaganda.
walt
David, Ive seen people being burned in buildings, civilians being killed on the street, cops
being beaten to death, old people being beaten, political opposition being beaten senseless,
women thrown in to trash cans. All of this to the sound of Bandera trash slogans: Glory to Ukraine,
Death to Enemy. Thats Bandera slogans.
Dont tell me that there is no Bandera in Ukraine. It is a lie. Ukrainian government official
line is that Stepan Bandera is a national hero. So quit your BS. It is Bandera trash destroying
the country, not Russians
oldgeekMA
The thing about written history is that no matter how many times "US-EU Propaganda Machine"
attempts to rewrite it or spin it. The ability to access the information written at the time
still exists.
On November 20, 2013. The US Media reported, Ukraine was a bankrupt Socialist Democracy with
a President that had been elected in 2010 by 56% of the vote in a four party election. Ukraine
needed a $15 Billion bailout loan and had gone to the EU for help. EU made an offer of $5.5
Billion if they were given open access to Ukraine's markets, and Ukraine became an EU sub-member
country. This amount would barely pay off their $3.5 Billion NG Bill with Gazprom. So President
Yanukovych rejected it and the EU sub-membership. He then went to Putin for a bailout. Putin's
offer was $18 Billion paid in 3 steps, over 3 months, with one caveat, Ukraine must pay its
NG bill with the first $6 Billion. Yanukovych accepted the terms.
---- The info in the above paragraph was reported by CSM, Reuters, AP, and BBC, on November
21, 2013, in various articles.
This was the impetus behind the EU-US "Wag the Dog" war against Ukraine's Elected Government
and its People. What followed was the systematic demonization of the government by the CIA and
US State Dept. using its "Cookie Cutter" Regime Change Package of propaganda, paid protests/riots,
False Flag operations, and misinformation campaigns, that was used against Mubarak's Egypt,
Gadhafi's Libya and Assad's Syria.
Russia actually wasn't involved at this point. They did have 1,200 Military Advisors with Ukraine's
Professional Army and Air Force and of course at their Navy bases in Crimea there were around
26,000 Navy and Naval Infantry(Marines).
Almost immediately, after the EU-US Coup d'état in Kiev put, the Nationalist(Socialist Workers)
Party(N@ZI) in power, they started the violent armed suppression of all opposition to this illegal
"Coup d'état" Government in Crimea, Odessa, and Eastern Ukraine. This was the truth at the time
and it's the true history today.
--- All American III Percenter and Disabled Combat Vet
tony
This country is proud defender of freedom and EU values --
This is just a resent history :
During WWII the Lithuanian Activist Front volunteered a police force, known as
Tautinio Darbo Apsaugos Batalionas (TDA), were employed by the Germans as auxiliary in massacres
of the Jews during the Holocaust. Another infamous unit was the the Lithuanian Securety Police
operating in Vilnius. A number of other police battalions were formed; the auxiliary forces
were sometimes employed outside of Lithuania and charged with securing communications, guarding
prisoners, delivering supplies, etc.
Today Lithuania together with Estonia who start relocate Monuments of falling solders who gave
their live fighting Nazi Germany to the places what nobody can see it and Latvia were become
legal an annual parades of Nazi collaborators.
on top of every news calling for new Crusade against mortal enemy Russia
Anonymous
"Form a new government as quickly as possible. It should be done in days not weeks," Biden
said in Kiev.
Good thing no external forces are bullying or pushing Ukraine around, except America, which
everyone is expected to like.
Alexander
Why not a word about Nuland (she arrived with Biden)? As we know selection of puppets in
Ukraine is her duty.
Mike
The Ukrainians brought all these on themselves! Had they done a referendum on the east to
see if the people there wanted to remained Ukrainians or joined the Russian Federation (just
like they did in Scotland), non of these would happened, but they chose a military assault were
thousands have die needlessly! The US/EU are backing murderer thieves in Ukraine!
smlslk
The US should be putting pressure on talks, not war. Kiev has persistently refused to talk
to the east with the excuse they are all terrorist. Well now the east had an election. They
picked who the east wants to represent them since Kiev has banned the regular representation
they had. So will they call "Zak" the elected leader of the east that was just a common electrician
a "terrorist"? Time for Kiev to at least have talks of peace and not war.
Peter
The US is not interested in talks as it want the whole Ukraine. Just look at the tactics
of the Ukrainian army; they use US military tactics that says either subdue or destroy civilian
infrastructure. Joe Biden do not want to lose his natural gas assets in the East...
Dennis
Nobody will sell Ukraine Coal to fire it's power plants because they don't pay their bills.
Yet there are many countries sending them weapons to kill their own citizens. hmmm
Paul
Porkyshenko is nothing short of a criminal. I do not expect him to live very long. He was
recently booed of the stage in Kiev and Joe Biden, who was going to stand beside him, had to
make a speedy exit.
E
Sounds like Proroshenko wants to be a dictator. Ukraine is unable to provide for its people
now on both sides. They want to join NATO and the EU but they are and will be a welfare state
for some time. Does the EU really want them? This guy is a businessman and not a leader.
LARISA
This is a good news. So Lithuania will become official part of conflict. This opens door,
in case Russia finally decided to engage in conflict, to annex Lithuania next. In fact Lithuania
is NATO member so that open a door for taking over rest of Europe. Need to start with nuclear
attack on American bases in Germany.
OK, relax, I am joking but as in any joke there is a little truth. NATO membership involves
responsibility. I hope those idiots in Washington who accepted these little dogs in Baltic region
to NATO will see what a tragic mistake they made.
DeeDee
Ukraine is in a lose/lose situation. There will be no candy for the neo-fascists this Christmas.
America willl abandon you in the midle of the river you stupid Slavs who turned your backs on
your own and thought you could be treated as Westerners!
Michael
Looks like Biden is doing stand up comedy now with this statement. As long as oligarchs are
around corruption will never go away. It is a part of the system and will not go away for many
generations if ever. The current parliament is just as corrupt as the last ones. Someone
should look into the life styles and homes of the current leadership and you will see it is
no different from the last. Unless the people change things will not change for Ukraine unfortunately.
"Form a new government as quickly as possible. It should be done in days not weeks," Biden
said in Kiev. He said a new government was vitally needed to form stronger democratic institutions,
enhance integration with Europe and fight "the cancer of corruption"...
Carlo
Ukraine is being ruled by the fascists. They are the real force in the country. They intimidate,
torture and kill everybody who raises concerns about the future of such a "united" Ukraine.
Shame on the West! Shame on you, young hidden fascists who are stupid enough not to see what
the Western leaders are supporting in Ukraine.
Equator 180
The alignment of the hierarchy at the troth is taking more time than it should and the feeder
as well as the troth dwellers are not in agreement..Puppets can be such a pain at times...
Aerospace Engineer
My sister from Odessa says that today it is nearly impossible to obtain EU visa compare to
a year ago before US started Ukrainian EU integration.
JACK
Poroshenko is a warmonger!
Killing his own people in Eastern Ukraine is usual business to him! He and his Nazi Azov
battalion must be brought to justice for all war crimes they committed in a national cleansing
campaign!!!
Odessit
Anybody cares what is right and what is wrong?
Or the world is officially a mad place?
What would you say if 30 years ago IF USSR instigated a coup in Canada and violently installed
pro-Soviet regime in Ottawa?
Then that regime starts "antiterrorist operation" against people of British Columbia because
they wanted to stay close to USA.
How about a referendum for Canadian people to decide on joining the Warsaw pact?
Do you like the idea of Russian "defensive" missile systems in Quebec, 10 miles from US border?
And what about Brezhnev going to Ottawa to give cookies to a mob beating and killing Mounties
in front of Canadian Parliament, while Brezhnev's daughter joining the board of directors of
leading Canadian gas-drilling company planning to drill shale gas in ... British Columbia?
Then Moscow decides to arm Canadian army to the teeth, so they can fight off the US aggression.
DO YOU FREAKING SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE???
Joe
Odessit.. You know I think you are not that much of a fool. In a better world we might even
share a pint. I know we have our media playing this both ways. I think you have missed a lot
of the news we get here in the "west" just as we miss a lot of your news.
The fact remains Denying your involvement in Ukraine and hiding behind such words as Annexation..
I know what happened to Poland in the pre World war II era.. Annexation is what got Hitler's
tanks eventually rolling into Russia mate.. I wish you health and an end to this before we find
ourselves sharing graves rather then pints.
Odessit
Joe, I would actually enjoy having a pint with you, unlike many others on this forum.
I know what you mean, but, in my opinion, it is much more complex then that. I am from Ukraine
originally and I don't need anybody telling me how we lived and what we felt.
All I know is that it is fundamentally wrong what the "west" is doing in Ukraine. It might
be welcomed by many (but definitely not all) in Ukraine. But it is still wrong. Wrong motifs,
wrong execution, wrong doing.
Russia's responses (like it or not) are just that - responses. Those responses might be felt
as 'wrongdoing" by many.
I am a proud Russian (by nationality), but I am not hell-bent on supporting "everything Russian"
or justifying anything president Putin does.
I just happen to think that:
- Ukrainians and Russians are two brotherly nations
- "hatred for Russia" was cultivated by the minority of Ukrainian ultra-nationalists and paid
for by US taxpayer money
- behavior of (corrupt) Yanukovich during Maidan was one of the most democratic acts that this
mankind ever new (would never happen anywhere in a "free world")
- East Ukrainians (later dubbed pro-Russian separatists) showed extreme restrain in the early
stages of "revolution/coup" and took up arms ONLY when their way of life,
including the right to speak their language was threatened
- Yanukovich was never really pro-Russian (he lead Ukraine as close to signing the
association with Europe, as it could get, obviously in spite of Moscow
- association agreement itself would have killed the economy of Ukraine, especially east Ukraine
- Maidan snipers, who kiled around 100 people on both side, where serving the new regime and
not Yanukovich
- bombing and shelling the centers of big european cities in our day and age is
BEYOND CRIMINAL
- Malaysian plane was downed by Ukraine military (likely with somebody else's blessing) and
not the pro-Russian rebels
- people in Odessa were burned alive by criminal nazi thugs and did not do it
themselves
- hiding the facts and impeding the investigation of crimes against humanity is a crime in itself
- harming the economy of other countries for your personal monetary gains is WRONG
- etc., etc.
Can I be wrong - of course I can be. As I said before, when I learn that ALL or ANY of the above
is not true, I might start blaming Putin and Russia myself.
Till then...
Have a pint for me too.
Texas Veteran
Not pressure from the west, pressure from the United States is more correct. We got to keep
our little Zionist Jew fascist dictator in Kiev in line and doing just what we tell him or he
will get replaced by one more US and EU backed coup. There are plenty more buildings in Kiev
that can get burned to the ground if necessary by our CIA undercover operatives.
This was decided during the visit to the region, said Deputy permanent representative of the
United Nations development programme (UNDP) in Ukraine Inita Paulovich, reports the press service
of the UN.
"Given the complex situation, we revised our plans and decided to increase aid, aimed at the
restoration of the region, and support people who find themselves in difficult conditions," she
said. Related news: the UN has taken in the Donetsk region with humanitarian aid As noted, the representative
of the United Nations programme visited the region to represent the third phase of the EU/UNDP project
"Local development, community oriented, which will give local communities more than 700 thousand
dollars. to support projects aimed at the recovery of the region. According to the press service
of the UNDP in cooperation with the EU will support projects in communities aimed at restoring in
8 districts of the region, which are now considered to be relatively safe, and will support cities
to accommodate internally displaced persons (VPO). In addition, the UNDP-EU will implement a programme
for the reintegration of higher education. Recall, the UN Agency for refugees (UNHCR) plans to open
its representative office in Severodonetsk (Lugansk region).
Read more here:
Important step in right direction. English is a neutral language that can help to diminish inherent
antagonism between Ukrainian as a minor language (less then 40 millions speakers) and a bigger and more
influential Russian language without resorting to policies of Latvia or Estonia which try to convert
countries in "ethnographic museums" were most professionals, especially Russian professionals left for
West or Russia. In many countries English is the second official language. For example, in India,
English is one of the official languages, along with 15 local. But this is a very expensive path. You
might lose Russian proficiency and get nothing instead. When the researchers tested the actual knowledge
of the language at 4.5 thousand Europeans, asking them to translate some simple English sentences, the
results were, in the words of the researchers, "very sobering": in France, Spain and Italy good knowledge
of English showed only 3% of respondents; in Scandinavia and the Netherlands - 10%.
Ukrainian schools should teach English instead of Russian to improve living standards, according
to Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko.
Speaking in western Ukraine, Poroshenko said that there was a link between Ukrainians' level
of income and the standard of Ukrainians' knowledge of the English language.
He also insisted that all government ministers must know English as part of their job
screening program.
Scrupulous.Geographer
Few people speak Russian outside Russia and the rest of Europe, while English is widely taught
even in Russia. For me the choice is clear and it's a very wise decision to introduce English
as a priority language.
David Webb
You mean the Ukraine wants to commit human-rights abuses? If nearly half of your population
have Russian as their main language, you can't just not cater to them.
What do they do in Finland? Have they abolished Swedish as an official language in favor
of a policy of teaching English instead of Swedish? No, they haven't. Why would a country like
the Ukraine be eligible for EU membership if it doesn't grasp the basic point of human rights?
Lev Havryliv
Excellent move. This will help end Ukraine's isolation from the rest of the world.
David Olund
I believe that bearing on the history of Ukraine that Ukrainian, Russian AND English should
be taught. All three. That's not so difficult to achieve.
This is how neocolonialism works: "global village' wants to move to "global town", while global
town mercilessly exploits it.
Notable quotes:
"... There is also an important factor: several million Ukrainians work in Russia and in Europe. Comparing,
they see that life in the European Union is more comfortable. And this also affects their geopolitical
preferences . Finally, most of the residents of Ukraine, especially in the center and the west of
the country perceived the reunion of the Crimea with the Russian Federation as an occupation of part
of their country. And in relation to the events in Donbass the propaganda has convinced many people
that it was not a rebellion against the new regime in Kiev, but Russia's aggression. Unfortunately,
revanchist sentiments towards our country in Ukraine can last for a long time. I would even say that
it is impossible to exclude the possibility of war between Russia and Ukraine. At least today it
is bigger than zero. And even 2 years ago this assumption might seem an absurd fantasy. ..."
"... Yes, there are still strong illusions of average Ukrainians in relation to Europe. Many people
think that joining the EU and NATO would quickly help Ukraine improve the living standards of the
population, to solve social problems and so on. Others, more realistically minded Ukrainians, think
like this: yes, we know that Europe will not solve our problems, but we have no other choice. Now,
Russia, if not an enemy, is at least an unfriendly state. And they do not believe in the economic
prospects of the alliance with us. ..."
"... public consciousness in Ukraine is largely irrational. Ive already talked
about the persisting illusions of Ukrainian men from the street. It seems to him that only the West
is able to protect Ukraine from the Russian aggression . This explains such a persistent and irrational
focus on Europe. ..."
"... it seems to me that the real percentage of Ukrainians who
are in favor of strengthening cooperation with Russia on the territories controlled by Kiev is
not much higher than what was revealed by the survey. ..."
Most citizens of "independent" Ukraine are disappointed with Maidan, but they still believe in
Europe
The public consciousness in Ukraine continues to amaze with its irrationality. This is confirmed
by the poll conducted by the International Foundation for Electoral Systems (IFES).
Despite the fact that the majority of Ukrainians acknowledge that Euromaidan did not meet their
expectations, a dominant sentiment in Ukraine is in favor of the pro-Western geopolitical course.
49% of respondents are of the opinion that Ukraine should better strive to deepen relations with
Europe, while the percentage of those who prefer a closer relationship with Russia is only 8%.
At the same time 56% of Ukrainians believe that the country is moving in the wrong direction,
and only 20% hold the opposite opinion. The notion that the country is moving in the wrong direction
is spread across the country and is shared by the majority of citizens in each region.
The survey was conducted on the territory of Ukraine, controlled by the Kiev government, without
regard to the views of some four million people living in the LPR and the DPR.
It would seem that in the last eighteen months Europe has demonstrated that it is in no hurry
to recognize Ukraine as its "own". Western aid is given precisely in those volumes that prevent the
final collapse of Ukraine's statehood. At the same time, due to the influx of Western goods and severance
of economic ties with Russia hundreds of Ukrainian enterprises are closed. The latest news in this
regard: in Ukraine it has become unprofitable to produce even sugar leading to the closing of 15
sugar mills.
The situation in the post-Maidan economy of Ukraine is much worse, however it has not affected
the unrequited love of Ukrainians to the West. Why is this the case and what will be the outcome?
- We must understand that the process of Ukraine's reorientation to the West began long before
the Maidan, - says the Head of the Center for Political Research of the Institute of Economics,
Head of the Department of International Relations of the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Federation
Boris Shmelev. - For a quarter century that has passed since the collapse of the Soviet Union,
more than one generation of Ukrainians has grown who are convinced that it is necessary not to be
friends with Russia, but with Europe. That only this friendship with the West will ensure the prosperity
of Ukraine.
There is also an important factor: several million Ukrainians work in Russia and in Europe. Comparing,
they see that life in the European Union is more comfortable. And this also affects their "geopolitical
preferences". Finally, most of the residents of Ukraine, especially in the center and the west of
the country perceived the reunion of the Crimea with the Russian Federation as an occupation of part
of their country. And in relation to the events in Donbass the propaganda has convinced many people
that it was not a rebellion against the new regime in Kiev, but Russia's aggression. Unfortunately,
revanchist sentiments towards our country in Ukraine can last for a long time. I would even say that
it is impossible to exclude the possibility of war between Russia and Ukraine. At least today it
is bigger than zero. And even 2 years ago this assumption might seem an absurd fantasy.
"SP": - Why a year and a half since the "February coup" have not convinced Ukrainians that
the EU is not going to make Ukraine a member state and that the West is helping Kiev only to the
extent that the pro-Western regime does not collapse?
- Yes, there are still strong illusions of average Ukrainians in relation to Europe. Many people
think that joining the EU and NATO would quickly help Ukraine improve the living standards of the
population, to solve social problems and so on. Others, more realistically minded Ukrainians, think
like this: yes, we know that Europe will not solve our problems, but we have no other choice. Now,
Russia, if not an enemy, is at least an unfriendly state. And they do not believe in the economic
prospects of the alliance with us.
"SP": - But it is impossible to escape the logic: as long as Ukraine maintained relatively
good relations with Russia, the situation in the Ukrainian economy was more or less tolerable. And
as soon as Kiev finally turned towards the West, the economy began to crumble ...
- All this is true. But public consciousness in Ukraine is largely irrational. I've already talked
about the persisting illusions of Ukrainian men from the street. It seems to him that only the West
is able to protect Ukraine from the "Russian aggression". This explains such a persistent and irrational
focus on Europe.
"SP": - And can we explain such a low percentage of Russian sympathizers by the fact that some
respondents, especially in the South-East of Ukraine are afraid to openly express their opinions?
- Yes, it is possible. Although, it seems to me that the real percentage of Ukrainians who
are in favor of strengthening cooperation with Russia on the territories controlled by Kiev is
not much higher than what was revealed by the survey.
"... The EU cannot do anything about Ukraine Right Sector radicals and its other nutters in the Mafia. ..."
"... But the Donbas situation is more mixed, however, even before the trouble in 2014, what I DID encounter in Kiev in particular (not so much Galycnya) was a regard of the SE UA citizens as second-class citizens, as well as attitudes that could be accurately be described as quasi-facist, ..."
"... I wonder why you call Western airstrikes "tactical". The coalition launched >7,000 military aircraft sorties in over a year, apparently carefully "missing" ISIS targets, killing on average ~0.4 terrorist per sortie and freeing up as much as 15 square kilometers of territory from ISIS. As you can easily imagine, a lot of people made huge amounts of money in the process. So we should call this a resounding success, on par with $10 billion no-bid Halliburton contract in Iraq. Wouldn't you agree? ..."
"... Does it really matter if they have ? We know the West has been involved so it would be pretty much par for the course if Russia was involved. The main thing is Ukraine becomes a peaceful nation for the benefit of its citizens, not for the benefit of either the West or Russia. ..."
Dear, you refer to "one blonde said!". On some vague feelings, assumptions... Enough speculation about Crimea, please! Let's
stick to facts! Crimea 80% of the population - Russian. Not only Pro-Russian, and ethnic Russians. Russia does not need were the
little green men of Crimea! But for drunk and scared of the Ukrainian military in the Crimea, for the Wahhabis, who through the
streets went to the cars with black flags for Ukrainian neo-Nazis, importing explosives and suitable for shooting on the streets,
probably Yes. Crimea was similar to the Autonomous Republic, until authonomy has destroyed by abandoning the Constitution. It
was abolished by the President! Crimea held a referendum for secession from Ukraine long before the coup in Ukrainein 2014 .
Note that the Americans tried to seize Crimea under the guise of NATO exercises! Was absolutely illegal attempt to build an
American military base in Crimea for the U.S. Navy landed the Marines on may 26, 2006, of which the citizens of Crimea dishonorably
discharged. And during the state coup in Ukraine in the Black Sea suddenly a us warship.
In Debaltsevo the Ukrainian neo-Nazis fought with men that were deprived of the government, the President, sovereignty, language,
external management is introduced, destroyed the economy. Take away the right to life. Whose wives, parents and children every
day are killed by shells from anti-aircraft weapons in schools, hospitals, shops, bus stops, fill up with planes of white phosphorus,
the water is shut off and the light stopped issuing wages and pensions, imposed humanitarian blockade.
To fight with desperate men, defending their home, or engage in rape and looting among the civilian population, where the majority
of the elderly, women, children - different things.
Sarah7 -> Sarah7 3 Oct 2015 19:58
One more thing:
Actually, the first photograph accompanying this piece by Shaun Walker shows Poroshenko looking particularly angry and miserable
-- if looks could kill, Merkel would be in big trouble!
That said, in the same photo, Putin appears calm, sanguine, and in a very 'positive mood' compared to his counterparts. Go
figure.
Sarah7 3 Oct 2015 19:49
Moscow and Kiev in 'positive mood' over talks to end east Ukraine conflict
If you look at the photographs that accompany the following piece, Poroshenko does not appear to be in a 'positive mood'
over the recent meeting of the Normandy Four, and Merkel looks like she is going to spit nails. Perhaps this explains their
dour faces:
German Chancellor Angela Merkel for the first time publically accepted the fact that Crimea doesn't belong to Ukraine and
that the peninsula will stay as part of Russia, Alexei Pushkov, head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Russian Duma,
said on his Twitter account, according to Gazeta.ru. (Emphasis added)
"Important: After a meeting in Paris, Merkel for the first time admitted that Crimea won't return to Ukraine. That means
the crisis is only about the east of the country," Pushkov wrote. (Emphasis added)
The Normandy Four talks on Ukraine reconciliation concluded in Paris on Friday.
The leaders of the Normandy Quartet countries managed to agree on the procedure of the withdrawal of heavy weapons in eastern
Ukraine, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Friday.
"We were able to agree on the withdrawal of heavy weapons," Merkel said following the Normandy Four talks in Paris. "There
is hope for progress. We are moving toward each other."
On the whole, the results of Friday's Normandy Four talks in Paris set a positive tone, Angela Merkel said, adding that
she was satisfied with what the participants achieved during the meeting.
The Normandy Four are planning to meet for a followup in November, presumably to keep Poroshenko in compliance and moving head
with the implementation of Minsk II.
PS -- It was the evil Putin wot done it!
HollyOldDog -> Laurence Johnson 3 Oct 2015 18:55
The EU cannot do anything about Ukraine Right Sector radicals and its other nutters in the Mafia. This mess is for
Ukraine alone to sort out and Mikheil Saakashvilli is not the man for the job - his corruption runs far to deep for any action
that is more than cosmetic.
BMWAlbert -> Елена Соловьева 3 Oct 2015 18:38
IDK the number of Russian nationals in the Donbas forces, something between 1-10K as a rough guess, these are not formal formations
(some are organized at the battalion level as all-Russian units, just an observation from the Russian language news coverage of
the closing of Debaltsevo earlier this year, e.g. so called "Khan" battalion, this is just televised news, but there must be more
than one such unit, hence the estimate-there are enough weapons captures from UAF in the earlier battles also to arm a small army
in Donbas, but this does not rule-out direct supplies (I would imagine something low-key and NOT the big white convoys), this
would be the natural minimal level of support I would infer/expect in this case and seems a fair inference. I am not replicating
mindless statements from ATO leaders, and remember that Rada twice tried
Crimea was an autonomous region in UA and with rights to hold a referendum under the early 2014 UA Constitution and an earlier
legal attempt in 1993 was surprised, also that RU had large forces already legally stationed in Crimea/Krim according to the Kharkov
treaty and that in some cases, civic authority, Sebastopol by the RU naval command being a case in point-a continuation of old
practices. My sense from personal friends is that among the young, and old generally, the pro-RU sentiment in Krim is strong (incl.
one girl with whom I have lost contact, who works there in what is now RU, due to current conditions).
But the Donbas situation is more mixed, however, even before the trouble in 2014, what I DID encounter in Kiev in particular
(not so much Galycnya) was a regard of the SE UA citizens as second-class citizens, as well as attitudes that could be accurately
be described as quasi-facist, this includes well-educated people, ibcl. in one case (a blonde) the desire to 'exterminate'
the Russians-but I would not count the opinions in Donbas as only those enduring the bombardments, there are also many refugees,
many in RU itself of course, whose opinions vary from those expressed sometimes here with all due respect, so yes it is complicated.
HollyOldDog -> William Snowden 3 Oct 2015 18:13
Putin wants Ukraine to succeed but the only way it can do this is for the Ukrainian citizens to take over its government and
boot out the Self-serving Oligarchs. The Oligarchs have their place in Ukraine but that is to stay out from forming Government
decisions and confine their endeavors to modernizing and improving the infrastructure of Ukraine Industrial base which would improve
the finance and conditions for all of Ukrainian citizens. It's going to be a difficult road but Russia and the EU can help, though
clinging on to the influences of the USA would surely be a retrograde step.
Елена Соловьева -> BMWAlbert 3 Oct 2015 18:07
What's so complicated? The war is real or not! Evidence of finding the 200 000 Russian soldiers in Lugansk and Donbass, or
have or not! Crimea after the collapse of the USSR was a disputed territory, which Ukraine annexed unilaterally, without considering
the opinion of the Russian Federation and, more IMPORTANTLY, against the wishes of the citizens of the Crimean Republic, which,
actually, was constitutional and presidential, while Ukraine did not destroy this status! It is Ukraine annexed the Crimean Republic,
and the Russian city Sevastopol, which is in the Republic even geographically not part of, Mr. specialist on Ukraine! Demarcation
implies the absence of territorial disputes. And, by the way! Another monstrous stupidity of your media! Poor Ukraine after the
coup d'état, followed by the external management of the country by the EU and the US are terrorized by the evil Russian, because
it is weak and has no nuclear weapons because of the Treaty of non-aggression from the Russian Federation? Really? Ukraine did
not pay its portion of external debt of the USSR and the Russian Empire, therefore, is not the successor,and cannot claim to nuclear
power status! Ukraine is a priori not have a right to this weapon, because it was not the owner initially, as the successor! The
coup in Kiev was held under the slogan "Cut all Russians!", which in Ukraine 2 years ago, it was a few million, and that is what
they are doing throughout the Ukraine, especially in Eastern Ukraine and was planning to do in Crimea. The burning of people in
Odessa - a vivid example.
Beckow -> Bart Looren de Jong 3 Oct 2015 17:11
You cannot survey people in the middle of a civil conflict on how much they like or dislike what is described as the "enemy".
It simply cannot be done, the numbers are meaningless.
Look at Ukraine's economy and you will see the future of this conflict. The living standards are down so low that all else
will become meaningless - people actually care about their incomes and living standard.
Your slogans about "illegal", "privileged sphere" are not what any of this is about, they are not what people in Ukraine think
about or what matters to them. But if you insist on slogans, there is one simple answer: Kosovo. West bombed Serbia, killing about
a thousand civilians, to force Albanian separation in Kosovo. All talk about "international law" is kind of meaningless after
that.
Informed17 -> Laurence Johnson 3 Oct 2015 15:53
I wonder why you call Western airstrikes "tactical". The coalition launched >7,000 military aircraft sorties in over a
year, apparently carefully "missing" ISIS targets, killing on average ~0.4 terrorist per sortie and freeing up as much as 15 square
kilometers of territory from ISIS. As you can easily imagine, a lot of people made huge amounts of money in the process. So we
should call this a resounding success, on par with $10 billion no-bid Halliburton contract in Iraq. Wouldn't you agree?
Manolo Torres -> Bart Looren de Jong 3 Oct 2015 15:49
I have condemned the actions of the Russian government in chechnya many times, if you are going to speak about anyones hypocrisy,
you should at least know with whom are you talking.
Manolo Torres
9 Sep 2014 09:42
0 Recommend
Look, I already replied, I wasn´t careful with my question. Of course the Russians have committed many abuses, namely the war
in Chechnya. I also explained the differences between that war and the wars by US/NATO that have simply no justification on
grounds of self defense.
My concern with human life was shown by my condemnation of every violent act: the massacre in Odessa, the airstrikes and shelling
that killed thousands in Ukraine, the war in Iraq and Syria, the war in Chechnya or the neo-nazi movement inside Russia (as
we were discussing yesterday before you started shouting and got overwhelmed by the numbers I showed you).
As for the Ukrainians I don´t you are as stupid as to blame Putin for the Ukrainian governments shelling of residential areas.
And perhaps you know that there is an investigation for MH17.
i am not like you Rob, I am not a fanatic and I only make judgements when I think I know the facts. You are just shouting and
looking every time more ridiculous.
A good start for you would be to say that you stand corrected for the Amnesty report. Do it, I have done it, feels good.
Can I do anything else for you?
Laurence Johnson -> gimmeshoes 3 Oct 2015 14:15
Poroshenko is in a bit of a legal quagmire as his government has not at any stage controlled the entire nation and its borders
at any time. His current claim on Eastern Ukraine in legal terms is more a wish list than a legal document of fact.
His only path is partition to legalise his government to govern what they have today, or to negotiate the handing over of East
Ukraine to his governments control in order that he can legitimately govern the entire nation and its borders. An invasion of
East Ukraine is probably not going to work legally, or on a more practical basis.
Informed17 -> Worried9876 3 Oct 2015 14:10
This is too categorical. Chocolate man wants anything that allows him to keep cashing in on his "president" title. The only
thing that's unacceptable to him is if his masters try to prevent his thievery. Then he is likely to become angry and unpredictable.
Might even remember about Ukraine, although that's highly unlikely.
elias_ 3 Oct 2015 14:04
Looks to me like Putin wins. Crimea in the bag, the eastern regions stay in Ukraine with enough clout to prevent nato membership
and keep the nazis at bay. And stupid EU and US get to pay the bill for reconstruction. The sanctions hurt all sides but are forcing
much needed reforms in his country, he may even become a net exporter of food products instead of importing from the eu. He gets
a refund for the Mistrals and makes the poodle French look untrustworthy. Oh well, serves the sneaky bastards right (you know
who i mean "fuxx the eu").
Laurence Johnson -> Alexzero 3 Oct 2015 14:03
Does it really matter if they have ? We know the West has been involved so it would be pretty much par for the course if
Russia was involved. The main thing is Ukraine becomes a peaceful nation for the benefit of its citizens, not for the benefit
of either the West or Russia.
At fist I thought that Twaddleradar, member since
Aug 9, 2015A is a new NATObot. It it looks like he is a regular Russophob... Still amazingly prolific spamming the whole discussion.
It's definitly not enough for him to state his point of view and voice objection. Such commenting incontinence is very disruptive in
Web forums.
Notable quotes:
"... WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE!?!? After 2 weeks in syria you have loads of satellite pictures of the Russian base/troops, but after a year + in Ukraine all your evidence is taken from social media posts? Good thing more and more people are refusing to swallow your daily dose of bullshit. ..."
"... The pretense that this was a Russian invasion is exactly that, a pretense. ..."
"... Something tells that it's easy to say but hard to implement. Far right powers in Ukraine would resist such a law very much. ..."
Russia has denied military involvement in the conflict despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
This old chestnut again... Evidence please of this sweeping claim?
No mention of Putin drafting the Minsk agreement, this is what happened. Then presenting it as a road map for a resolution
to the Ukrainian Civil war? As I recall it was Merkell and Holland who rushed to Moscow in February to meet with Putin and thrash
out a solution which was then presented to Poroshenko.
As the USA is now in an election cycle and with the Syrian War on Isis takes centre stage with Russian involvement, it looks
like the their sock puppet, Petro Poroshenko has been hung out to dry. Finally being told to get back in his box... for now, probably
as no more funds via the IMF will be directed into this proxi-conflict if it continues (well they were breaking their own rules
giving Ukraine money when it's at war with itself).
Finally, this made me smile...
It has been a busy diplomatic week for Putin, who has not been a frequent guest in western capitals over the past year
Actually Putin has had a very busy diplomatic year building international partnerships across Asia and the BRIC's, Trade agreements
with China and Saudi Arabian investment into Russia. The Silk Route project and much more. It seems to me some of the Graun's
journalists should get out more, like Putin has been doing!
PrinceEdward -> Twaddleradar 2 Oct 2015 21:12
Meanwhile every Ukrainian male is so full of patriotism, there is no need for a 5 draft rounds in Ukraine because they're flooding
with so many volunteers, they turn them away. Stories of parents paying $1000 to get their kids out of the draft, or countless
thousands of 20-something Ukrainians running away to Russia and Poland to get student visas, is just propaganda.
MrJohnsonJr 2 Oct 2015 21:07
Ukraine has a fucking nerve to require a diplomatic effort to have it explained to them what a murderous losers the turned
out to be and that another of their "revolutions" brought nothing but a major waste of human life and EU and Russian taxpayer
money.
KriticalThinkingUK 2 Oct 2015 20:39
Its great isnt it what can be achieved when Russia, Germany, France and Ukraine get together for serious negotiations. Just
like in Minsk 1 and 2 when the same group first established peace in Ukraine, behind the backs of the USA and UK who were pointedly
not invited to those talks either.
What is the key to this progress? Simple. Dont invite the rightwing cold war loonies to attend. Keep them out at all costs.
That is to say exclude from all talks USA, UK, NATO, Poland and the rest of the crazy warmongers who have worked so hard to encourage
conflict.
If these negotiations are successful expect further progress over the next decade in other spheres between Germany and Russia.
In fact objectively by all measures it is in the long term interests, both economic and political, for these two major European
powers to co-operate as natural trading partners....the US warmongers worst nightmare!
Interesting times................
Mazuka 2 Oct 2015 20:35
" Russia has denied military involvement in the conflict despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."
WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE!?!? After 2 weeks in syria you have loads of satellite pictures of the Russian base/troops, but after
a year + in Ukraine all your evidence is taken from social media posts? Good thing more and more people are refusing to swallow
your daily dose of bullshit.
NotYetGivenUp -> HHeLiBe 2 Oct 2015 19:18
You confuse Crimea, which voted for secession after Russian forces ensured Kiev military didn't engae in anti-secessionist
reprisals (as stated by Putin), with East Ukraine, in which Kiev generals admitted they were fighting Donbass forces, not Russian
forces.
The pretense that this was a Russian invasion is exactly that, a pretense. But any honest appraisal of the facts on
the ground, through observation of events as they happened, show that the rejection of the Kievan coup was by the people of Donbass,
and is a popular rejection, not the nonsense Russian invasion peddled by the media in the west.
Mr Russian 2 Oct 2015 19:13
The compromise plan would involve the Ukrainian parliament passing a law stating these elections were indeed legal, but
they would be organised by the rebels.
Something tells that it's easy to say but hard to implement. Far right powers in Ukraine would resist such a law very much.
As part of his UN speech seeking to restore a crumbling Pax Americana, president Obama, eager to
cover up US involvement in the Ukraine presidential coup of early 2014 (who can forget Victoria Nuland
"strategy" interception in which she laid out the post-coup lay of the land, while saying to "fuck
the EU"), just said that "America has few economic interest in Ukraine."
Herdee
Where and what did they do with Ukraine's gold bullion reserves and who is in possession of
them right now and why is it such a big secret to everyone that overthrew the Government there?
directaction
Who cares? The Ukraine gold and all the rest of their resources are legitimate wartime plunder,
booty, if you will. If the Ukrainians are stupid enough to happily allow the USA to barge in and
take everything of value from them why should we weep?
viator
"George Soros has long called for the West to pump billions into Ukraine. Now he says he's
ready to walk the talk.
The veteran hedge fund investor told an Austrian newspaper he was prepared to invest $1 billion
in the collapsing war-ravaged economy under certain circumstances.
"There are concrete investment ideas, for example in agriculture and infrastructure projects.
I would put in $1 billion," he told Der Standard. "This must generate a profit. My foundation
would benefit from this, not me personally."
The Hungarian-born billionaire said Europe and the U.S. must show strong political leadership
over Ukraine -- that would make it more attractive to private investors. The West could provide
finance at European interest rates close to zero, for example.
A spokesman for Soros said his investment would depend on the West doing "whatever it takes"
to rescue Ukraine."
Notwithstanding the heavy presence of dual citizens yadda yadda, I kinda think the "secret
report" was tongue-in-cheek and that this is basically bullshit. But in this messed up crazy world...
stranger things....
Since the discussion is now academic (Crimea is not leaving Russia unless Russia itself is
destroyed), I will be brief.
Kolomoysky is the president of a European Jewish Group, and active in Chabad. He was promoting
Crimea as an alternate Jewish homeland until Crimea rejoined Russia. Kolomoysky then lost his
real estate holdings, and Chabad the ability to dominate the Crimea.
If you are interested in further background, check out the following link:
Well, actually, he did, if I remember correctly. Roshen was indeed placed in a trust, so that
Poroshenko cannot fiddle with the day-to-day running of it, which he would hardly have time to
do anyway. Yeah…here's
a mention of it; Rothschild's (surprise!!) is holding on to it for him, and it was Nestle
who offered "no more than a Billion dollars" for the company. According to the article, it is
just the owners' judgment that says it is worth three times that amount, and it seems odd an American
company would try to rip off America's good friend by low-balling him. I wonder if he has not
deliberately priced it so it won't sell.
According to
Sputnik, the company is worth $1.5 Billion, although they don't say how that figure was arrived
upon, either. I know you will be surprised to learn that Poroshenko blames….Russia for his failure
to sell the company. Uh huh, he said "at the moment, Russian authorities – and it would be better
to ask [the management of] Roshen about this, are preventing the sale…In any case, it must be
carried through to the end."
Hmmm….I'm kind of editing this as I go along, as I find more information. Here's what is to
me the most informative site so far; Kapital says the company was
assessed at $1.6 Billion by Eavex Capital Investment company. Eavex is the former Sincome
Capital,
relaunched as Eavex following the acquisition of a 10% minority shareholding by
Accuro Group (Zurich).
Eavex reports that two factories have been shut down; Lipetsk, in Russia, and Mariupol. Perhaps
that has something to do with the zeal with which the state military is defending Mariupol; if
that factory could be restored to stable production, the company's worth could go up to $2.1 Billion.
The current assessed value is based on "a multiplier calculated on financial performance of the
corporation in previous periods", to which a discount is applied for reduced volume of business.
But you have to hand it to Roshen – even without Poroshenko's steady hand on the tiller, they
have increased their stores in Kiev to 18, a 38.4% increase over 2013. Roshen chocolates and candies
are also sold in supermarkets and retail chain stores, and new supermarkets increased by more
than 20% in Ukraine in 2013.
Anyway, it does look like Poroshenko is deliberately overpricing the company so it won't sell.
Nestle offered $1 Billion even, the company as it currently stands is worth $1.6 Billion, if it
could restore the Mariupol factory to stable production and perhaps dispose of the Lipetsk factory
it might be worth as much as $2.1 Billion, and Poroshenko is asking almost $1 Billion more than
that.
I sit corrected (the cat has f/k'd off). Then it makes eminent sense to not sell now, especially
to Nestlé who are as brutal as you would expect from an American company. They bought Cadbury
in the UK a few years back, the Conservative government receiving 'ass-urances' that they won't
butcher Cadbury. Of course, Nestlé did. It was another case of a US company off-shoring its taxes
to the UK (big pharma has done this too with the UK), which is weird. We are told that the
US is great for companies because it has low tax blah blah blah blah.
So, why do US globocorps
need to shift their tax address to countries like the UK to avoid paying tax. I say follow
Italy's model. Massively support SMEs and make sure they co-operate with each other as the
sum of parts so that they are global competitors. This is what German companies do. They band
together and go global. The Frogs, not so much.
I 'know' a French engineer who want to take his 3D printing patent big time. His boss won't
fund it as it is 'high risk', no other French company is interested because of IP and who gets
the cash. In the EU, if you can pony up half the development money from private sources, the EU
will pitch in the other half, particularly for ground-breaking and innnovative products. I asked
him if he'd looked abroad. No. I even suggested Japan as this is what James Dyson of bagless hoover
fame did. Not one single European white goods manufacturer gave him any time. A big Japanese company
did which meant he could set up his laboratory and factory in the UK. When Euro-companies started
copying his designs, he had the full weight of a massive Japanese corporation's legal department
to shit on them from a great height.
The crux being, if the U S A is so great for business, WTF are they doing tax dodging in expensive,
crappy Europe (mofos)? /rant
It is worth mentioning also that Poroshenko was a co-drafter of the European Association Agreement,
before he ran for office. It has been suggested that he wrote a number of amendments into it which
would have been extremely beneficial – not to mention lucrative – for Roshen had the transition
been the great and thunderous success Europe plainly expected it to be. Little bit of a conflict
of interest there, but it might help to explain why he is holding on to his business. After all,
if nobody's buying but you genuinely want to sell, you drop your price a little, sort of feel
around to see where the floor is. Poroshenko has never dropped his price to the very best of my
knowledge, and some Candy News site reported a large company – Cadbury, or somebody in their league,
I forget now – made an offer but it was much too low for Poroshenko. This further imples he is
not really interested in selling and may even have deliberately priced it too high, because he
expects to return to life as a wealthy…ahem…"tycoon" once he has served his penance as Ukraininan
leader.
The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine purchased 4 tons of chocolate from LLC "Kyiv Confectionery
Company" on September 2, also known as the official distributor of the Roshen Corporation. The
total transaction amounted to 995 520 UAH [$45,923].
Ukraine's current Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk used to fight in Chechnya against Russia,
according to Aleksandr Bastrykin, head of Russia's Investigative Committee, reports Ukrainska
Pravda citing the Russian newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
The Russian investigators have questions to the Ukrainian citizens Dmytro Korchinsky, Ihor
Mazur, Valery Bobrovich of the UNA-UNSO, the leader of the Right Sector Dmytro Yarosh, the leader
of the Svoboda Party Oleh Tiahnybok and his brother Andriy in connection with the war in Chechnya
in 1994-1995, according to Bastrykin's interview with Rossiyskaya Gazeta, Ukrainska Pravda
reported.
"The investigation also found that at the time, Arseniy Yatsenyuk fought by their side against
the Russian military as part of Argo punitive group, and later - Viking, led by Oleksandr
Muzychko," said Bastrykin.
"According to the investigation, Yatsenyuk took part in at least two of the armed confrontations
that took place on December 31, 1994, on the Minutka square in Grozny and in February, 1995,
outside the city hospital 9 in Grozny; as well as in torture and executions of prisoners," he
said.
In addition, Bastrykin says that Yatsenyuk was conferred Honor of the Nation Dzhohar Dudayev's
highest Honor of the Nation title in December, 1995.
"In early 1995, Arseniy Yatsenyuk returned to Ukraine via Georgia with a group of journalists.
Later, he was repeatedly seen at conventions and other events of UNA-UNSO in Kyiv," said
Bastrykin.
According to the official biography of Arseniy Yatsenyuk, in 1995, he had studied law at the
University of Chernivtsi.
UNIAN memo. UNA-UNSO) is a Ukrainian political organisation seen as far-right in Ukraine and
abroad. Although the Ukrainian National Assembly (UNA) was the organisation's political wing, on
22 May 2014 it merged with Right Sector; the UNA-UNSO continues to operate independently.
Oleksandr Muzychko was a Ukrainian political activist, a member of UNA-UNSO and coordinator of
Right Sector in Western Ukraine. Russian prosecutors accused him of killing "at least 20" captive
Russian soldiers during the First Chechen War. The inquiry by the Russian Investigative Committee
began in March 2014, years after the alleged killings. Muzychko jumped into media spotlight on
February 27, 2014, after attacked the Prosecutor of the Rivne region in his office. On 11 March
2014, Russian State Duma opposition leader Valery Rashkin urged Russian special services to
"follow Mossad examples" and assassinate Right Sector leaders Dmytro Yarosh and Muzychko. On 24
March, 2014, Oleksandr Muzychko was shot dead.
Both countries are US clients and US has no use anymore for the nazi dogs of war, i.e. they can
protest all they want - they are getting nothing and if they become too obstructive, they will start
to disappear one by one.
They might be dangerous but they are nothing compared to money men running the show."
.
"...Occam's razor: the fascist nationalist nutters orchestrated the whole thing, because they don't
want any concessions given to the objects of their hatred."
. Some people think the challenges faced by Ukraine's Poroshenko are now too big to overcome. But those
who would like to take his place have not shown themselves capable of doing even half of what he has
achieved.
.
Wait...Poroshenko has achieved something? He has done nothing but what he was told. He waged war in
the east because John Brennan told him to. And then stopped when Merkel told him to. He is a non-entity."
.
"...Here is two examples of Porkoshenko being a head of occupational government: (1). He destroyed Ukraine's
military industrial complex, for it's ties (very profitable by the way) with Russian military, as any
obedient CIA stooge will do. (2). He flipped the country geo-politically, from the state that should
have benefit from it's position in the middle of the Europe, in to some sort of final frontier, protecting
Europe from the hordes of those crazy Russians, all by himself , only crazy person could have come up
with this, or an obedient CIA stooge again."
.
"...Let's face it, straight reporting on The Ukraine is hard to come by, given that it's labouring
under the 3-line whip of the CIA, MI6 and another global I.S. best not to mention."
.
"...When you back hard right elements (to further your personal political goals, when both parties share
a common antagonist) who are prone to violence. Don't cry victim when they disagree with your political
overtures & decisions. Acting out that disagreement the only manner they know how to which is through
violence. I have no sympathy Poroshenko, for the backlash his government is now facing re: his government's
constitutional proposals."
.
"...I chortled with laughter, almost choked, when he suggested that the Kremlin agents are organising
the far right nationalists in Ukraine, deliberately causing an outbreak of peace in order to show up
the Kiev parties in a bad light! Believe me, Kiev parties can show themselves up all by themselves!"
.
"...I wondered how long it would be for poroshenko to blame putin for the grenade attack. Russia has
been a convenient scapegoat for Ukraine to blame for its own failings since the overthrow of yanukovic.
The right wing activists who carried out the grenade attack were at the heart of the maidan protests
which also involved violent confrontations with the police. They were also those who tarrgetted ethnic
Russians following the overthrow of yanukovic so their actions in opposition to granting extra powers
to eastern territories is hardly surprising."
Notable quotes:
"... I talk about the media coverage. At that time "the right wing Party" was just a Putin lie, troubles were cause by Putin, protesters were peaceful and policemen were killed not in terror attacks but were killed democratically. ..."
"... - Ehhh... was it a terrorist attack? Not a peaceful protest democratically fighting bad and corrupt police prohibiting them to freely take the parliament? Because at the Euromaidan 17 policemen were killed and more than 200 injured when peaceful protesters were democratically fighting bad and corrupt police prohibiting them to freely take the parliament... and there were no terror attacks... ..."
"... "Corporatism was one of the ideals of both German Nazism and Italian fascism. They held it as a carrot before the people, as a 'solution' to the class problem. They used it as their 'revolutionary' credentials and in both cases, ditched it completely soon after taking power. The idea of each sector of society being organized to take its place at the high table of the state was always "jam tomorrow." Today's agenda was always "war." ..."
"... It should also be understood that fascist 'corporatism' has nothing to do with the global corporations that are not often bigger than nation states. Modern 'corporatism' only shares a name with the fascist 'ideal.' Not that it any better. ..."
"... Princesss Nuland of the neocons is a nasty murderous piece of work. One to watch. Hopefully somebody will 'putsch' her and her equally loathsome husband. Have they spawned any more little evils? ..."
"... A neo-neocon organised and paid for putsch is hardly "democratic", same as any other US sanctioned regime change i.e Mega Nation Theft. ..."
"... In all matters relating to Eastern Europe the Guardian has pinned its colours to the mast of the "New East Network." Which is essentially controlled by a Mr George Soros, Radio "Free Europe" and the National Endowment for Democracy." All mouthpieces of the state department. Its safest to believe the opposite of everything they tell us. ..."
"... It is very hard to enter EU from the East without visa (and rules for visa application were hardened for Ukrainians). It is very hard to get job without working permit, and for money you need to register. Notice, that all these points are not present in case of refugees traveling to Russia/Belarus. ..."
"... Fast forward to the neo-neocon putsch and princess Nuland boasting of the death and destruction that all those humanitarian $5 billion had purchased as she dispensed biscuits in Maidan, just prior to both sides being shot up by putschist snipers (likely from outside and/or Svoboda, or the Social Nationalists (don't say Nazis don't have a sense of humour!). ..."
"... Its not really a zero-sum game. Russia always maintained that the coup was engineered by the West by encouraging right wing elements and this is just one of a number of incidents that prove that their view was correct. This makes our life difficult in the West because we only think in polar terms -- if Russia is right then they 'win'. Since we cannot allow any situation where Russia 'wins' we go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to prove black is really white. It would be better to ignore Russia's comments and commentaries and just look dispassionately at who the actors are and what they're up to. The answers are staring us in the face. ..."
"... February 24, 2014, right extremist forces (Banderists, Right Sector and neo-Nazis Svoboda) implemented a coup during the Maiden. At the time the US government warned the Ukrainian authorities against using force against these 'pro-democracy protestors' even if, according to the pictures we saw, some of them were neo-Nazis who were throwing Molotov cocktails and other things at the police and smashing up statues and setting fire to buildings. ..."
"... These militias became the spearhead of Ukrainian forces in the East and on them falls much of the war effort in the Civil War. But these militias can not yet be lifted, because otherwise the war in the East could not continue. ..."
"... History always repeats itself. Use low ignorant, racist and violent manpower to take power by force but also to maintain it, but then to dump it as soon as possible because they rare considered, rightly, unpresentable or otherwise dangerous even for those who have instigated, financed and exploited them. Of course, sometimes such situations go out of hand, see the Afghan Mujahidin or ISIS. ..."
"... Now Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk are receiving their own coin back. They supported and reinforced those they now pretend to discover to be thugs. The real puppets are and remain in power while their useful barbarians have become bothersome: infamous, resistant to the point that one can wonder if the latest riot would not be a false flag from Yats and Poro who used the skills of these criminal thugs. Because the latter are not mere free electrons who just decided to meet that day. There is money, people that structure this, a hierarchy, an efficient network and money at will, in which Russia has no involvement. ..."
"... The far right have done all the dirty work during the coup and still doing it on the frontline and have not got enough in return, in their view. Croatia had a similar problem with their extremist veterans who were used by the Croatian right wing HDZ to destabilize social-democrat government. ..."
"... Both countries are US clients and US has no use anymore for the nazi dogs of war, i.e. they can protest all they want - they are getting nothing and if they become too obstructive, they will start to disappear one by one. ..."
"... Occam's razor: the fascist nationalist nutters orchestrated the whole thing, because they don't want any concessions given to the objects of their hatred. ..."
"... The director of Centre of Eurasian researches Vladimir Kornilov noted: "Everybody perfectly understands where the HR department of Ukrainian policy is. It is in the American Embassy". ..."
"... Let's face it, straight reporting on The Ukraine is hard to come by, given that it's labouring under the 3-line whip of the CIA, MI6 and another global I.S. best not to mention. ..."
"... Disgusting man hailing from a disgusting class of politician/businessmen trained by the US to bring death and chaos to any part of the globe that the powers behind the US Government see fit. Prepare for our own Maidan should this class of parasite-sans-frontieres, (read Mikheil Saakashvili), succeed in bringing The Ukraine under the NATO umbrella. ..."
"... I chortled with laughter, almost choked, when he suggested that the Kremlin agents are organising the far right nationalists in Ukraine, deliberately causing an outbreak of peace in order to show up the Kiev parties in a bad light! Believe me, Kiev parties can show themselves up all by themselves! ..."
"... idan 2014 edition? He doesn't ask who armed them in the first place. The author is giving a good impression of being one very confused bloke. ..."
Another version has it that the explosion outside parliament was orchestrated by the president's
administration or the Ukrainian special services in order to discredit Svoboda and other radical
nationalists and to "tighten the screws" on the political life of the country thus justifying control
over opposition forces.
This version hardly stands up to criticism. The demonstration was led by MPs who are members of
Svoboda but got into parliament as independent candidates. In the 2014 elections Svoboda did not
win the 5% of the vote necessary to enter parliament. Four months earlier, in the presidential election,
the party's leader, Oleg Tyagnibok, won only a little over 1% of the vote. This week he was photographed,
together with other Svoboda activists, trying to drag a soldier out of the human chain formed around
parliament into the crowd of protesters. It was a moment very reminiscent of the Maidan days, only
that then Svoboda members and their leader were inside parliament. Since then the party has found
itself increasingly marginalised.
However, there were other groups represented in the demonstration , among them two that deserve
special attention: Oleg Lyashko's radical party and Igor Kolomoisky's Ukrop party. T-shirts with
the latter party's emblem were given out free at the demonstration, and those willing to take part
were paid to protest. Kolomoisky is considered to be an enemy of President Poroshenko since he was
sacked from his position as governor of the Dnipropetrovsk region. Kolomoisky's man in Odessa, Igor
Palitsa, also lost his job as governor and was replaced by the former president of Georgia, Mikheil
Saakashvili.
Immediately after the blast, Lyashko, who is a radical populist with little in common with the
radical nationalists, announced the establishment of a campaign to save the nation. Only three or
four hours after the explosion, his party had already registered a bill that would block changes
to the constitution at times when the country is under military attack. Lyashko came second in the
presidential elections, and over the last year his Radical party has gone up in the ratings. It is
interesting that articles in the press regularly claim to have evidence that both the Svoboda party
and the Radical party have been financed by the same oligarchs, the above mentioned Kolomoisky, Sergey
Levochkin – who was head of the presidential administration under Yanukovich and who fled to Moscow
after the Maidan – and Dmitry Firtash, who is now being investigated on corruption charges in Austria.
Still, the violence could have a far more banal explanation. To begin with, volunteers who went
off to fight in the Donbass for the sake of maintaining Ukraine's unity were radicals from militant
groups such as the Right Sector, which sprang up during the Maidan. There were also volunteers who
had no affiliation to any party who went to fight. When the Ukrainian army took over the main role
in the fighting, many of the volunteers returned home, taking weapons with them.
nnedjo 3 Sep 2015 16:18
Well, the purpose of the constitutional changes in Ukraine should be that rebels in the southeast
stop fighting and accept Ukraine as his country, and not Ukrainian nationalists to stop throwing
grenades at the police in Kiev. However, these laws passed by the Ukrainian parliament, can contribute
very little that the main objective. Their main goal is just to create the illusion that Ukraine
really is trying to comply with the requirement of Minsk 2 agreement, and thus to meet the expectations
of their Western friends, which means to prevent lifting of sanctions against Russia. And, on
the other hand, these laws need to be completely contrary to the expectations of the rebel peoples
in Donbas, or in other words to achieve the same thing that the Ukrainian government unsuccessfully
tried to achieve with weapons.
It is particularly interesting that the President of Ukraine Poroshenko himself makes no secret
at all that it is true what I've previously written, as can be understood, among other things,
also from those of his statements:
According to the president, "the threat of break-up of the international pro-Ukrainian coalition"
would have increased if the Verkhovna Rada had not voted in favor of decentralization amendments
to the constitution on Monday.
It could also lead to the lifting of sanctions, which "are very painfully hitting the aggressor,"
he said, apparently, referring to Russia, which Kiev blames for sending troops to war-torn eastern
Ukraine....
...But what they [Donetsk and Lugansk Regions] have got instead is a lean line about the features
of local self-governance," Poroskenko stressed.
So, even though the law that caused the protests in front of parliament has the name of "decentralization",
in fact it needs to further strengthen the competence of the central government. Based on this
law, the Presidency received the right to appoint a prefect, who with his hand has the discretionary
right to dismiss officials elected at the local elections in certain regions. And if they do not
like it, they can appeal to the constitutional court in Kiev, where were apparently is known in
advance what may be the decision of the constitutional court.
On the other hand, the law on the special status of Donetsk and Lugansk, which was passed earlier,
is practically suspended at this point by the recent decision of the President Poroshenko.
In this respect, it is necessary to emphasize two things.
Although according to the Minsk 2 arrangement, the special status of the Donbas region should
have been incorporated as an integral and permanent part of the Ukrainian Constitution, the law,
which is now suspended, does not meet any of these two demands.
This law therefore is attached only as an annex to the Ukrainian constitution, and its validity
is limited to just three years. And, according to the idea of Ukrainian legislators, the law can
come into force only after the local elections in Donbass which would be held under the previous
Ukrainian legislation, and when Ukrainian forces take control over the whole territory of Ukraine,
including its entire border with Russia.
Until then, they will be consider that Donbas region is temporarily occupied part of Ukrainian
territory, and officials of the People's Republic of Lugansk and Donetsk People's Republic will
be considered as terrorists. And since with the terrorists must not be negotiations, leaders of
the LNR and DNR were completely excluded so far from discussions about the law on the special
status, which is also contrary to the Minsk 2 agreement, given that it explicitly requires just
that.
All in all, they are asking the pro-Russian rebels that lay down their arms voluntarily, without
getting anything in return. Or more accurately, to get just a little bit of what they are looking
for and only for a period of three years. So, congratulations on wishful thinking, but the question
is whether it is achievable at all.
LimaCPapa -> ridibundus 3 Sep 2015 15:48
I first learned about this when a new Ukrainian student introduced himself, and we asked why
the name he gave was not the name on his papers. He explained (with clear annoyance) that he had
to use a Ukrainian name. He had to keep it while he was here as well, because it was the name
in his passport. Now he's free of all that and uses his Russian name. Needless to say, he did
not return to Ukraine. Another Ukrainian has since confirmed that the same thing was true for
her passport. In both cases, issued in the early 2000s. So who's lying then?
beakybloom -> gablody 3 Sep 2015 13:34
What's inherited??.. The bankrupt economy, loss of Crimea, loss of Donbass, 6000 dead, civil
war, downing of Malaysian airliner with 300 souls on board, Odessa massacre, murders of political
opponents, the nazi parliament, stupid laws glorifying Ukraine's nazi past, no visa-free access
to EU, Nazis throwing grenades at the police???..
Nothing here is inherited except the absence of visa-free access to EU
a "show on the road" ? On IMF funny money? For how long? It's a shitshow, and unsustainable
to boot.
nnedjo -> Chirographer 3 Sep 2015 13:28
The putinposters are still reeling with the news that the Ukrainian government is fighting
"Nazis" in Kiev,...
It will be possible to say just when the news arrives that the organizers of these demonstrations
were sentenced to a few tens of years in prison, and that guy who threw this grenade from which
the Guardsmen killed, was sentenced to life imprisonment.
What is quite unbelievable judging by the past behavior of government from Kiev.
The piece of shit she CHOSE to work with.
Jewish neo-con skunk and neo-Nazi thug seems like a match made in heaven.
jezzam -> Chillskier 3 Sep 2015 10:19
Go ahead then. I can't wait. Neither can Poroshenko. His best option is passive resistance
when Putin launches his next land grab. Russia will be forced to give it back eventually when
they are totally bankrupt
Bosula -> RVictor 3 Sep 2015 08:55
The congregation is mostly made up of ethnic Ukrainians, members of a community that numbers
hundreds of thousands and has been growing rapidly since the start of the conflict in eastern
Ukraine.
This is what the Guardian reported on 13 May 2015 - this was JUST for Poland:
"Last year Poland issued 331,000 permits for short-term work to Ukrainians, up 50% on 2013,
says Marta Jaroszewicz, a migration expert at the Centre For Eastern Studies (OSW), an independent
Warsaw thinktank funded by the Polish government.
She estimates that there are now 300,000-400,000 Ukrainians in Poland, as many as twice the
officially recognised number. In January and February, the number of residence applications by
Ukrainians in the Mazovian voivodeship – the province which includes Warsaw – was up 180% on the
same months of 2014."
There are other articles for other neighbouring countries bordering Ukraine, but the Guardian
is a pretty authoritative source.
Since this story the number crossing the border to leave Ukraine has increased significantly.
FlappyCat 3 Sep 2015 08:20
Poroshenko to Transnistria..
Yats to Macedonia and
Saakishwilly to Tajikistan.
oleteo -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 08:12
I read the Gorby's interview where he said 'Yes' about the NATO promises.But he's a fool nevertherless
to beleive the promises,written or verbal from his enemy.
elias_ -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 08:07
>>He's trying to provoke Putin.
Hmm in that case you have proved Poroshenko is a fu##ing idiot. Only an idiot would set out
to provoke the leader of a neighbouring country into invading. Is that what you lot voted him
in for? No, it isn't. He should be making peace and securing the future for his people. Face it,
your leader is taking orders from Pyatt and you know it.
BigBanana 3 Sep 2015 07:50
"Kolomoisky's man in Odessa, Igor Palitsa, also lost his job as governor and was replaced by
the former president of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili"
Jeez, Saakashvili is a stupid appointment for a very long list of reasons. He's the idiot who
got Georgia dismembered after misjudging the situation terribly.
It's as if Poroshenko is deliberately trying to fuck things up.
HuffingHume -> normankirk 3 Sep 2015 07:41
All of the ex-Soviet Union, with the exception of the Baltic states, are horribly corrupt dysfunctional
kleptocracies run by Soviet era bigwigs who carved up their state's assets up for themelves, leaving
most of their fellow countrymen in poverty. This is the reason why many Ukrianians want to be
more 'European'; because they want to be more like Poland and the Baltic States, rather than in
the Russian orbit, in which every state has barely made it out of the 80's.
Dimmus -> Alex Hughes 3 Sep 2015 07:15
"It was the right wing Svoboda Party that started the trouble, definitely not a 'peaceful protest'
as you make out. "
I talk about the media coverage. At that time "the right wing Party" was just a Putin lie,
troubles were cause by Putin, protesters were peaceful and policemen were killed not in terror
attacks but were killed democratically.
RVictor -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 07:14
Putin has a record of false flag operations, starting with the Moscow apartment block bombing
performed by the FSB when he was head and which brought him to power.
And the proof is ... o, yes, - something written by oligarch in exile! Btw., here is a short
list of admitted FF operations be US and it's vassals. Remember "Iraq WMD"?
oleteo -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 07:10
Why being invaded by Putin, Ukraine is trading a discount for gas, [and asks for ] deferral
of loan?
irishinrussia -> Alex Hughes 3 Sep 2015 07:03
It's irony. He is implying that when protesters the west likes kill policemen then they at
peaceful demonstrators, perhaps defending themselves against brutal security forces, at worst
any violence is the action of a few hotheads or extremists among overwhelmingly peaceful, democratic
victims of the state. However, when the very same protesters attack our guys (Poroshenko), they
are radicals, extremists and terrorists, perhaps abetted by shadowy enemies of freedom and democracy
(FSB).
PanoptikonicallyKool -> Briar 3 Sep 2015 06:15
Shhh!!!! You are not supposed to say things like that! 'US backed coup'? That is not part of
the story. And it's ancient history history, no connection to current events. In fact it didn't
even happen, according to repectable news sites. Or they don't mention it, so it must not have
happended . The US, as the article states, or rather doesn't state, or rather doesn't even mention,
has nothing to do with political events inside Ukraine, that's why we never read anything about
it. Did Russia do it or not do it? That's the only serious question for anything that happens
in Ukraine.
US involvement in Urkaine? Harrruuumph! Conspiracy theory! And don't bring it up again!
Dimmus 3 Sep 2015 06:15
"But the media has been busy throwing up theories about who has most to benefit from
this terrorist attack. "
- Ehhh... was it a terrorist attack? Not a peaceful protest democratically fighting bad
and corrupt police prohibiting them to freely take the parliament? Because at the Euromaidan 17
policemen were killed and more than 200 injured when peaceful protesters were democratically fighting
bad and corrupt police prohibiting them to freely take the parliament... and there were no terror
attacks...
ositonegro -> BastaYa72 3 Sep 2015 06:11
"Corporatism was one of the ideals of both German Nazism and Italian fascism. They held
it as a carrot before the people, as a 'solution' to the class problem. They used it as their
'revolutionary' credentials and in both cases, ditched it completely soon after taking power.
The idea of each sector of society being organized to take its place at the high table of the
state was always "jam tomorrow." Today's agenda was always "war."
It should also be understood that fascist 'corporatism' has nothing to do with the global
corporations that are not often bigger than nation states. Modern 'corporatism' only shares a
name with the fascist 'ideal.' Not that it any better.
How can anyone not take the US state department's line. It is the truth. Ergo, everyone else
is paid by the Russians.
Калинин Юрий -> elias_ 3 Sep 2015 04:59
He does not answer the questions, he blames Putin in all the world's sins and universe disasters.
Global warming - Putin, extreme heat in the EU - Putin, police conflicts in the USA - Putin. Ask
him, wh has scratched a car by a shopping mall last month - Putin!
RVictor -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 04:53
The West has not broken international law since the Iraq invasion.
Support and organization of governments overthrow all around the world? War in Libya? Killing
with drones on foreigns territories? Bombing of Syria territory?
Theo Humbug -> normankirk 3 Sep 2015 04:52
Princesss Nuland of the neocons is a nasty murderous piece of work. One to watch. Hopefully
somebody will 'putsch' her and her equally loathsome husband. Have they spawned any more little
evils?
RVictor -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 04:49
Why does Georgia not get Interpol to issue an arrest warrant for Saakashvili? Ukraine
would have to comply. The answer is obvious. They would not get one because the charges against
Saakashvili are politically motivated, like most of the corruption charges in Russia.
Right - like any West institution Interpol is so-o-o independent, exactly like International
Court!
Theo Humbug -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 04:49
I have come to realise that Jizzem is just a Turing Bot.
Theo Humbug -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 04:48
HAHAHAHAHA... Are you serious? Which planet are you on? Do you think people forget that quickly?
A neo-neocon organised and paid for putsch is hardly "democratic", same as any other US sanctioned
regime change i.e Mega Nation Theft.
jonsid -> Mark Elliott 3 Sep 2015 04:46
In all matters relating to Eastern Europe the Guardian has pinned its colours to the mast
of the "New East Network." Which is essentially controlled by a Mr George Soros, Radio "Free Europe"
and the National Endowment for Democracy." All mouthpieces of the state department. Its safest
to believe the opposite of everything they tell us.
Theo Humbug -> Chirographer 3 Sep 2015 04:41
You clearly have a very bad memory. The Russian offer of cancelling debt and very reasonable
prices for fuel was very attractive to the ELECTED government of Victor Yanukovych and far far
better than the EU offer, which was why they were all for accepting the Russian offer and aligning
more with Moscow..
But the USA can't have any country deciding it's own fate if it is not in accord with the Lords
of this Universe.
The neocon organised and paid for putsch, Maidan Shootings, Odessa burnings, put a stop to
any agreement beneficial to the Ukrainians and opened the way for the IMF to come in and steal
the wealth of yet another country.
There is no excuse for anybody not to know these recorded and verifiable FACTS.
elias_ -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 04:36
You are fixated on Putin - you must be a not so secret admirer. Why don't you answer Tomov's
question. What has Poroshenko achieved since becoming President?
RVictor -> careforukraine 3 Sep 2015 04:34
It is very hard to enter EU from the East without visa (and rules for visa application
were hardened for Ukrainians). It is very hard to get job without working permit, and for money
you need to register. Notice, that all these points are not present in case of refugees traveling
to Russia/Belarus.
So I show you official numbers of registered refugees in EU - and amount of unregistered cannot
be high due to immigration laws and functioning police system.
On over side, number of 400000 is taken from nowhere - go on and proof it.
Salut_Salut -> jezzam 3 Sep 2015 04:32
If you are such a hard-core proponent of sanctions policy, then may be you can name the beneficiaries
of it in EU? Farmers? Businesses? Common people? Methinks - only politicians following in the
wake of Uncle Sam's guidelines. The President of Russia is no way a role model or a paragon country
leader, but seeing him behind every corner is nothing but a bout of anti-Russian paranoia. People
of that long-suffering country aren't actually represented by him only.
Theo Humbug 3 Sep 2015 04:29
How far back does history go?
Lat week, last month, Maidan Square, the fall of the Soviet Union?
If taken that far back, then people will surely remember Ronnie Raygun's promises to Gorbachev
that no NATO forces would encroach on former Soviet territory. Ehh?? What??
Fast forward to the neo-neocon putsch and princess Nuland boasting of the death and destruction
that all those humanitarian $5 billion had purchased as she dispensed biscuits in Maidan, just
prior to both sides being shot up by putschist snipers (likely from outside and/or Svoboda, or
the Social Nationalists (don't say Nazis don't have a sense of humour!).
So called separatists voted to stay with Russia, with whom they identified, despite the lies
and propaganda from the US/West/Nato including premature accusations of responsibility fro the
shooting down of MH17 .. funny how 1) the US never released it's data (another Pentagon "plane"?)
2) that has all gone very quiet... Wonder what they found?
Perhaps the putschist regime and/or their neo-neocon pay/puppet-meisters have woken up to the
very real danger of putting nazties withing 'Cooee' of nuclear weapons?
Of course, one does not need to be a nazti to call for nuclear mass murder. The blond plaited
heroine of the right, the ex jailbird, ex Prime Minister (for ganesh sake!!) Tymoshenko called
for the nuking of Donbass, if I remember correctly.
Russian now has the major Western forces and neonazis on their border. President Putin has
to deal with these murderers and the great unwashed, living in their encapsulating bubbles of
Newspeak and reality cooking shows, are told by the Mudorc press and other propagandists that
it is Russia that is pure evil.
I wish there were a god.
Tony Cocks -> danhudders 3 Sep 2015 03:59
" The airliner was almost certainly downed by a Russian crew "
But of course you have not one shred of evidence to support your statement in which case would
you agree it is valueless and was a waste of your time posting it in the first place.
RVictor -> careforukraine 3 Sep 2015 03:49
I think he said refugees crossed the border ........i am not sure that all refugees fill out
the application form?
400000 ? Look on the current 100000's refugees wave from the Asia/Africa to get an expression
how it looks like. Or on the last year summer wave of Ukrainian refugees in Russia - with large
refugee camps for temporary placements etc. You cannot get 400000 refugees to go "unseen" - especially
in case of relatively good-maintained land border.
martinusher 3 Sep 2015 03:09
Its not really a zero-sum game. Russia always maintained that the coup was engineered by
the West by encouraging right wing elements and this is just one of a number of incidents that
prove that their view was correct. This makes our life difficult in the West because we only think
in polar terms -- if Russia is right then they 'win'. Since we cannot allow any situation where
Russia 'wins' we go through all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to prove black is really white.
It would be better to ignore Russia's comments and commentaries and just look dispassionately
at who the actors are and what they're up to. The answers are staring us in the face.
(If you need any indication that something's not quite right in Ukraine then you only have
to look to the appointment of Saakashvili as the governor of Odessa last summer. He's best known
for his role as a Georgian politician, someone who, among other things, provoked a disastrous
confrontation with Russia.)
SHappens 3 Sep 2015 03:07
To begin with, volunteers who went off to fight in the Donbass for the sake of maintaining
Ukraine's unity were radicals from militant groups such as the Right Sector, which sprang up during
the Maidan.
February 24, 2014, right extremist forces (Banderists, Right Sector and neo-Nazis Svoboda)
implemented a coup during the Maiden. At the time the US government warned the Ukrainian authorities
against using force against these 'pro-democracy protestors' even if, according to the pictures
we saw, some of them were neo-Nazis who were throwing Molotov cocktails and other things at the
police and smashing up statues and setting fire to buildings.
These forces were subsequently beaten in the elections, thus rejected by the Ukrainian people.
However the first act of Poroshenko was to legitimate these irregular and illegal militias which,
absent in Parliament, have received the far more important power of arms, courtesy of the new
mixed Ukrainian-American government. Basically the only difference between the parliamentary majority
and the far-right groups is that the first take orders from the West, the latter don't.
These militias became the spearhead of Ukrainian forces in the East and on them falls much
of the war effort in the Civil War. But these militias can not yet be lifted, because otherwise
the war in the East could not continue.
History always repeats itself. Use low ignorant, racist and violent manpower to take power
by force but also to maintain it, but then to dump it as soon as possible because they rare considered,
rightly, unpresentable or otherwise dangerous even for those who have instigated, financed and
exploited them. Of course, sometimes such situations go out of hand, see the Afghan Mujahidin
or ISIS.
Now Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk are receiving their own coin back. They supported and reinforced
those they now pretend to discover to be thugs. The real puppets are and remain in power while
their useful barbarians have become bothersome: infamous, resistant to the point that one can
wonder if the latest riot would not be a false flag from Yats and Poro who used the skills of
these criminal thugs. Because the latter are not mere free electrons who just decided to meet
that day. There is money, people that structure this, a hierarchy, an efficient network and money
at will, in which Russia has no involvement.
Still, Poroshenko and Yatsenuk want more war and call for lethal arms supply. All this while
the rating of Ukrainian is now CC with negative outlook.
RVictor -> Bosula 3 Sep 2015 03:02
400,000 refugees crossed the borders from Ukraine into the EU over the past year.
You are lying (surprise, surprise!):
"There were 4,603 applications for international protection in Germany, 3,600 in Poland,
2,956 in Italy, 1,962 in Sweden, 1,763 in France, 200 in Moldova, 60 in Romania, 60 in Hungary
and 20 in Slovakia," the UNHCR findings highlighted.
vr13vr 3 Sep 2015 02:16
"Russian TV focused on the events outside the Ukrainian parliament to prove to viewers
that chaos reigns in Ukraine. "
And doesn't chaos indeed reign in Ukraine? I thought that was beyond obvious and doesn't need
any additional proof.
vr13vr 3 Sep 2015 02:13
How about the more obvious explanation that Maidan, so much encouraged and celebrated by the
West, had taught Ukrainians that it is Ok to attack the police, try to pull away their shields
(see the photo above), through molotov cocktail at them (there was a picture on Monday) and grenades
in order to pass certain laws in their Rada.
vr13vr 3 Sep 2015 02:11
How exactly Russia is "profiting" from this? is this author just throwing the sentences around
or is he required to fulfill some anti-Russia quota in his article?
ArtofLies -> Jonathan Stromberg 3 Sep 2015 02:09
There are undoubtedly going to be further problems with these nationalists, oh come on, we
can call the neo-nazi's or neo-fascists here, just because the journalists above the line cant
be seen to be propagandising for fascists does not mean that we have to play those semantic games.
the fact is this is the second time these fascists have attacked the police, this time with
grenades, the last time it was molotov cocktails, but the media wont criticise them because there
is money to be made in the ukraine, not everything is privatised yet and i hear there are still
dreams of fracking ukraine to prosperity.
nishville -> Jonathan Stromberg 3 Sep 2015 01:43
The far right have done all the dirty work during the coup and still doing it on the frontline
and have not got enough in return, in their view. Croatia had a similar problem with their extremist
veterans who were used by the Croatian right wing HDZ to destabilize social-democrat government.
Both countries are US clients and US has no use anymore for the nazi dogs of war, i.e.
they can protest all they want - they are getting nothing and if they become too obstructive,
they will start to disappear one by one.
They might be dangerous but they are nothing compared to money men running the show.
drrust 3 Sep 2015 01:38
Again you are instigating that the Minsk agreements were reached by western or international
powers in general, implying that angloamerica was part of this. The agreement was a sole and very
sucsessful initiative of Mrs Merkel, who took a reluctant Holland with her who solely sensed a
chance to be viewed as a statesman. The UK had already transports of war material underway.
elias_ -> Bosula 3 Sep 2015 01:14
There's million in Russia although many of them may be hiding to avoid military service. Look
on the bright side, there's another 40 million of them and I bet most will want to move into the
land of milk and honey which is Europe.
MaoChengJi 2 Sep 2015 23:31
"But despite profiting from it, Russia is very unlikely to have perpetrated it"
Oh no, say it ain't so! How can any trouble in this world be caused by something that is not
The Dark Lord Putin?
And how is Russia 'profiting' from this, I'd like to know? Isn's this rather a case of the
western Russophobe industry suffering a loss?
Well, for sure the Russophobe industry suffering a loss is an undeniable victory for all humanity,
but putting it as 'Russia profiting'?.. Oh well, russophobes are weird creatures, I've noticed
it a long time ago.
retarius 2 Sep 2015 22:47
Occam's razor: the fascist nationalist nutters orchestrated the whole thing, because they
don't want any concessions given to the objects of their hatred.
eric lund 2 Sep 2015 20:43
How the USA rule sway the destinies of Ukraine flooding it with blood
One can get an impression that authorities of Ukraine, totally dependent on State Department
of USA, are doing anything – searching for spies, begging for money, getting weapons from USA
and Europe, suppressing dissidence, self-advertising and desperate propaganda, but not taking
the steps to peaceful regulation of conflict in South-East of the country and its economic rise.
According to the last research of Kiev international institute of sociology the rating of president
Petr Poroshenko has fallen three times, down to 13,6%, other candidates don't even get 5%. When
authorities are so unpopular, it is only left for them to turn the screws and continue witch hunting
at full throttle.
The director of Centre of Eurasian researches Vladimir Kornilov noted: "Everybody perfectly
understands where the HR department of Ukrainian policy is. It is in the American Embassy".
In order to strengthen his worthless power Poroshenko fired seemingly over powerful chief of
Service of Safety Valentin Nalivaychenko, who had been transmitting information which often put
Poroshenko himself in not very bright light, to representatives of USA. And new chief of Service
of Safety Vasiliy Gritsak, who is very close to Poroshenko and was the head of his own service
of safety, at one dash arrested 40 colonels and generals allegedly for dissidence in his department.
Danger is getting closer for Home Affairs Minister Arsen Avakov. The chief military prosecutor
Of Ukraine Anatoliy Matios claimed that members of criminal organization 'Tornado', made on the
base of militia and appointed by Avakov from former criminals, had organized secret place in basement
floor of school to torture illegally captured people. The Ukrainian patriarch Filareth presented
a medal for sacrificing and love for Ukraine, so to say for perverted sadism while torments, which
are unofficially legalized by Ukrainian authorities.
At the same time the level of aggression of Ukrainian militaries is only picking up speed.
Thus, the Ambassador of Ukraine in USA Valeriy Chalykh without any scruples stated: We are getting
weapons, including lethal, and nobody can prohibit it to independent Ukraine. The other thing
is that it is not common to disclose these countries, but they are more than 10, only from Europe.
We have different level of technical and military cooperation, and at this stage it is only going
further.
Chillskier -> Paul Moore 2 Sep 2015 20:42
Here is two examples of Porkoshenko being a head of occupational government:
He destroyed Ukraine's military industrial complex, for it's ties (very profitable by the
way) with Russian military, as any obedient CIA stooge will do.
He flipped the country geo-politically, from the state that should have benefit from it's
position in the middle of the Europe, in to some sort of final frontier, protecting Europe
from the hordes of those crazy Russians, all by himself , only crazy person could have come
up with this, or an obedient CIA stooge again.
So it is what Ukraine g-ment does, not what putin tells.
EugeneGur -> Chirographer 2 Sep 2015 20:35
everything would have been wonderful if Ukraine had not decided to finally reject the
brotherly embrace of Putin's Russia
Not everything, because by that time Ukrainian authorities have already ruined a lot. However,
there is little doubt that Ukraine would've been a hell of a lot better off if it hadn't followed
the path of the coup and indulged in anti-Russian hysteria. Has your mother ever told you that
quarreling with your neighbors is never a good idea?
Looking at the situation objectively, it is a good thing that the Kiev government is
trying to follow the Minsk plan.
Objectively? You? It would be a good thing if it were but it doesn't. These constitutional
changes have nothing to do with the requirements for the regional autonomy set out in Minsk II.
Nor have they been agreed to by the Donbass representatives, which makes the whole thing pointless.
But even these miserable changes had to be pushed through by Nuland, because Rada initially refused
to approved them. There are 13 points in Minsk II and so far Kiev fulfilled none of them.
Jeff1000 2 Sep 2015 20:30
Some people think the challenges faced by Ukraine's Poroshenko are now too big to overcome.
But those who would like to take his place have not shown themselves capable of doing even
half of what he has achieved.
Wait...Poroshenko has achieved something? He has done nothing but what he was told.
He waged war in the east because John Brennan told him to. And then stopped when Merkel told
him to. He is a non-entity.
Julian1972 -> truk10 2 Sep 2015 19:54
I know! I know!
Still, when the US funds its various Intelligence Agencies and Covert Overseas Operations Organizations
to levels beyond that which most of the rest of the world combined spend on their actual militaries,
it's hard not see why they end up being suspected of having sticky fingers in various pies.
Poor, innocent US...after all, all that money's just being spent on ergonomic seating and biodegradable
paperclips, right? Hahahaha!
nnedjo 2 Sep 2015 19:51
There is one more possible theory, which seems that the author has failed to notice.
Thus, due to the fact that the proposed legislation is far from what was envisaged by Minsk 2
agreement, and in particular is far from what would satisfy the pro-Russian rebels, the following
question arises:
Does this event may have been aimed to strengthen the claim that this bill is the most that Ukraine
can offer to the pro-Russian rebels, because, "for God's sake, even for this Ukrainians began
to kill each other in the middle of Kiev"?
TomFullery -> Chillskier 2 Sep 2015 19:47
You are right about Ukraine's economy. I visit fairly often and each time I get more Hryvnia
for my Euros. Plus the restaurants are empty so you are guaranteed good service from serving staff
desperate for a tip to supplement their meagre wages (so much for joining the US "democratic"
system!).
Strange that the Nazi putsch in Kiev has benefited me (who wouldn't piss on them if they were
burning) rather more than 99% of Ukrainians.
Although I do notice that the Kiev Nazis seem to have taken one step in the direction of moderation
- the shrine to the Nazi Ukrainian nationalist Stepan Bandera which was there erected about the
time of the putsch has now disappeared (most likely moved to a less conspicuous location).
Julian1972 -> desnol 2 Sep 2015 19:44
Dead right.
In penning the written equivalent of 'The Picture That Fooled the World':
maybe, at least, his 'confusion' is a symptom of his conscience trying to find it's voice.
Hehehe, maybe there's hope for him yet?
Let's face it, straight reporting on The Ukraine is hard to come by, given that it's labouring
under the 3-line whip of the CIA, MI6 and another global I.S. best not to mention.
NorthOfTheM25 2 Sep 2015 19:42
The Ukrainian regime in as much as they try so hard to have a resemblance of 'western values'
(whatever that means) & to avoid behaving like the powers that be at the Kremlin. At the end of
the day have the same approach in how they apportion blame & deflect attention from their obvious
failings.
When you back hard right elements (to further your personal political goals, when both parties
share a common antagonist) who are prone to violence. Don't cry victim when they disagree with
your political overtures & decisions. Acting out that disagreement the only manner they know how
to which is through violence.
I have no sympathy Poroshenko, for the backlash his government is now facing re: his government's
constitutional proposals.
TomFullery -> jezzam 2 Sep 2015 19:35
His Ukraine policy has two main prongs.
1. Make Putin realise that military aggression against his neighbours carries too high an
economic penalty to be worthwhile.
Nothing got military until the US-instigated Nazi putsch in Kiev. Strategic imperatives trump
short term economic considerations and Russia has reacted skilfully to the attack by the US using
Ukraine as a proxy (much to Ukraine's detriment)
2. Support Ukraine economically until it becomes a prosperous liberal democracy, like
the rest of Europe (Russia excepted of course).
Ukraine will be asset-stripped by US corporations. Ukraine will not be a prosperous, liberal
democracy in your lifetime and neither will the US.
Oligarchs in Ukraine are doing extremely well, obviously not a concern for a coup sponsors.
normankirk -> jezzam 2 Sep 2015 19:33
Want an example of a twist?
Kerry warning Poroshenko against resuming hostilities, retaking territory in breach of the
Minsk agreement, then less than a week later Nuland rushing to Kiev to egg Poroshenko on, thoroughly
endorsing his plans
Hanwell123 -> Knapping 2 Sep 2015 19:28
He was the idiot who jumped the gun in the CIA plan to create a war in 2008. He went before
the whistle shelling an unprotected and unwarned city hours before he was supposed to. One of
Asias prize fools. So Poroshenko's made him - a non Ukrainian - Governor of Odessa. Great stuff
Poro!
TomFullery -> jezzam 2 Sep 2015 19:27
Despite Yanukovich's corruption he did a decent job of steering Ukraine down the middle path
between Russia and the US/EU and he was nobody's proxy. As for his corruption he was a mere pickpocket
compared to the like of Timoshenko who is not on any Ukrainian, EU or US corruption list!
This wasn't good enough for the neocons in Washington who wanted the whole country - hence
their instigation of the Nazi putsch in Kiev. It's gone downhill all the way for the Ukrainian
people since then considering they have lost a sizeable chunk of territory and now likely having
to move to some sort of federal system.
On top of those miseries they now have Finance and Economics ministers from Lithuania and Poland
parachuted in by the US and given Ukrainian citizenship on the day of their inauguration to their
respective posts. They also have US stooge and ex-Georgian president Sakaashvili and fugitive
from Georgian justice parachuted in as governor of Odessa. Let's not forget Joe Biden's son who
was appointed to the board of directors of one of Ukraine's biggest energy companies very shortly
after the Nazi putsch.
At least the east of the country is out of the hands of US corporate predators but it's a certainty
that agreements will be signed (if not already) to turn massive tracts of Ukrainian farmland in
the west of that country to US GM giants. I wonder how those US-loving west Ukrainians are going
to react when the horrible reality of US-style "democracy" hits home.
NorthOfTheM25 -> truk10 2 Sep 2015 19:24
Stop it, you are embarrassing yourself & sound like a bitter divorcee who has lost a legal
battle. Nothing you have said has little bearing with the article.
But I guess each time the key trigger words Russia, Ukraine, Kremlin, Stalin & Moscow are mentioned
then just like Putin bots, you are also activated from your dwelling under the bridge to reel
out the tired & repetitive anti Putin bellicose rants.
normankirk -> jezzam 2 Sep 2015 19:22
except it is the oligarchs who are prospering. Kolomoisky is under investigation for diverting
1.8 billion of IMF money to his own Cyprus bank account. Poroshenkos profits have increased astronomically
while all Ukrainians are taking pay cuts.
luckyjohn -> alpamysh 2 Sep 2015 19:03
Yanukovych contributed a lot to radicalise Ukrainian society. He planned his survival in office
by manipulation - stressing Tyannybok's importance to voters so that in the end there would be
a choice - Tyaynybok or himself Yanukovych for president. Of course - Yanukovych then wins because
the radical Tyahnybok is too "dangerous" to vote in. So much for your democratically elected president
Yanukovych! So the presence of radical elements in Ukrainian society is in fact Yanukovych's doing.
He was a very divisive president who played on divisions in Ukraine rather than trying to heal
them as well as being thoroughly corrupt.
virgenskamikazes 2 Sep 2015 18:37
I would believe the Western version if, after ousting Yanukovich, they would do a 21st century,
EU version of a Marshall Plan. If the EU had said to Yanukovich "we want to flood Ukraine with
Euro with very low interest and in long term, for investment in infrastructure and industrialization
projects - given that you cut ties completely with Russia" and Yanukovich had said "no" to that,
than I think it would be fair for the Ukranian people to oust him.
But the EU offered a humiliating, absurd shock therapy style reform, that's why Yanukovich
"no". Even imediate full EU, EZ membership was not on the table.
The thing is, the Ukrainian people bought on the fantasy that they could mass emigrate to central
Europe overnight had Yanukovich said "yes", that only them had economic problems, that the West
is the promised land, that we are still in the Cold War, etc.
Had Yanukovich hold on tight on power until two months ago, after the Greek tragedy, I doubt
there would be political strength for the USA and the Ukrainian far-right to oust him.
Beckow -> ArthurJenkinson 2 Sep 2015 18:32
He wrote a long article with bizarre conspiracy theories in order to confuse a very simple
attack by a Ukrainian nationalist mob on the police, killing 3 policemen.
The "theories" are there to obfuscate and confuse. We are close to the end game in Kiev and
it will not be pretty. And the angry hysteria among Washington, London and Berlin sponsors of
this madness will also get uglier. They don't like to lose so they would prefer just about anything
to admitting to being defeated in Ukraine.
Julian1972 2 Sep 2015 17:43
Poroshenko's assertion that Russia is to blame for this week's murder of policemen is of the
same Frankenstein DNA as his assertion that Russia was behind the downing of Flight MH17 and that
the Eastern part of The Ukraine's population are not democrats rising up against an illegal putsch
which brought him to power but are simply 'Kremlin puppets'...and therefore justifiably crushed
by the same type of gunfire that otherwise had Maidan martyrs held up as 'heroes'. (Even though
it was members of their own side doing the shooting, hahaha).
Disgusting man hailing from a disgusting class of politician/businessmen trained by the
US to bring death and chaos to any part of the globe that the powers behind the US Government
see fit. Prepare for our own Maidan should this class of parasite-sans-frontieres, (read Mikheil
Saakashvili), succeed in bringing The Ukraine under the NATO umbrella.
BastaYa72 -> alpamysh 2 Sep 2015 17:43
You can't even tell the difference between 'neo-fascist' and 'Nazi'.
If either term comes into your tiny mind it obviously defaults to imagining scenes from the
last days in the Führerbunbker - whatever turns you on.
Also, the IMF has always favoured right wing corporatist regimes, preferably with as little
democracy as possible.
desnol 2 Sep 2015 17:41
The author's puzzlement and confusion are directly proportional to how little he understands
the situation in Ukraine. He keeps wondering about various scenario's, each more absurd than the
previous.
I chortled with laughter, almost choked, when he suggested that the Kremlin agents are
organising the far right nationalists in Ukraine, deliberately causing an outbreak of peace in
order to show up the Kiev parties in a bad light! Believe me, Kiev parties can show themselves
up all by themselves!
And then, almost at the very end of the article, after all his fanciful, surreal speculation,
Andrey Kurkov hits the nail on the head with
"Still, the violence could have a far more banal explanation."
But even then he gets it all skewed up, blaming the fact that Ukranian army went to fight the
separatists for the fact that the far right thugs are now armed and throwing bombs in Kiev. Doesn't
he realise they were armed and throwing bombs in Maidan 2014 edition? He doesn't ask who armed
them in the first place.
The author is giving a good impression of being one very confused bloke.
domeus -> thenewstranger 2 Sep 2015 17:30
At least he is an improvement on all the other Guardian journalists who report on Russia and
Ukraine. He connects the right wing group of people behind the killing of the of the policeman
in Kiev with those those who volunteered to kill their fellow countrymen in Odessa and throughout
the eastern and southern regions. Autonomy for the regions would have solved the problem then
and prevented the unnecessary bloodshed and suffering. But Nuland had other plans and the western
media acted accordingly.
Jessica Roth -> alpamysh 2 Sep 2015 17:14
The Maidan "protestors" were the ones who broke the cease-fire, shooting at both the Berkut
and their own people. The forensic evidence proved it. Did you not listen to the Urmas Paet-Baroness
Ashton phone call?
The "impeachment" of Yanukovich was illegal under the Ukraine constitution, which required
a 75% vote. Even with the US-trained thugs forcing MPs to the floor at gunpoint, only 72% of the
Ukraine parliament was present for the vote. Poroshenko has no more business being President than
the burnt and raped corpses of the people his Azov Nazis butchered in Odessa and Mariupol do.
(Although the corpses would probably do a better job.)
bonhiver 2 Sep 2015 16:49
I wondered how long it would be for poroshenko to blame putin for the grenade attack. Russia
has been a convenient scapegoat for Ukraine to blame for its own failings since the overthrow
of yanukovic.
The right wing activists who carried out the grenade attack were at the heart of the maidan
protests which also involved violent confrontations with the police. They were also those who
tarrgetted ethnic Russians following the overthrow of yanukovic so their actions in opposition
to granting extra powers to eastern territories is hardly surprising.
ositonegro 2 Sep 2015 16:44
The Azov battalion also declared they would bring the war to Kiev if not sated in Dombass.
You make a fascist revolution and the next move is to institutionalize it. Hitler did this very
well, destroying the populist SA movement and assassinating their leaders and incorporating the
remainder into the regular army. Then fascism could move forward with the whole state support.
But in Ukraine the EU-US used fascism to make the coup then tried to reign it in. The fascists
however cannot be institutionalized. They are still a powerful street movement with the added
benefit of having been trained and armed and given military space to grow. Now they are pushing
for policy dominance over the regular bourgeois political forces and using bombs to do it. The
Azov Battalion always said they would take the war back to Kiev if they felt betrayed.
It has to be understood that Poroshenko is not a fascist, despite coming to power on the back
of their efforts. The EU-US do not want the fascists in power. How could Ukraine enter the EU
with an outright fascist government? But they are playing with fire, using these street forces
and then renouncing them. It will come a time when they do not have either the legitimacy of the
power to stop another coup against themselves, and this time with no restraints. Then what will
the EU do?
While Greece founders under unsustainable debt and Eurogroup dictatorship, Ukraine is given
sweeteners, relieving 20% of their debt - something unimaginable with Greece. But you can't stop
a tsunami with Canderel.
"... The West tried to crash Russian economy ahead of the inevitable Ukrainian collapse, and it failed. So now the death-watch for the Ukraine's economy has started: default on loans, catastrophic drop in living standards and incomes, millions trying to emigrate, and energy dependency on Russia that might turn out to be fatal if there is a cold winter in Europe. ..."
"... Yeah, I can imagine Russians being jealous of Ukrainians. The economy is collapsing, the inflation is 40%, the far is going on, the armed Right Sector people are walking in the center of the city, the opposition leaders are suppressed and the actions are taking against the media that disagrees with Kiev. And while all of this, the corruption remains exactly where it used to be. Darn, the entire world is jealous of those lucky Ukrainians. ..."
"... Only US nutcases don't care about economy or living standards and prefer to play geo-political games with Ukrainians... ..."
"... And as for West "helping Ukraine" by cutting down the debt by 20%, this is the freshest interpretation of the event I've ever heard. It wasn't done to "help" Ukraine. The West agreed to do so to avoid even messier and costlier option of default and loosing even more money in Ukraine. Other than talking about giving some more loans to Ukraine in the future, the help to Ukraine from the West is now minimum. ..."
"... Land that has long since been signed over to Monsanto and DuPont as part payment for earlier loans. Ukraine's economy is in such a state that's it's obvious that it will form the next major refugee crisis, while Svoboda and Privvy Sector will almost certainly launch a coup to over-throw the Kiev government. ..."
"... Ukraine is bankrupt - negotiating to not pay back the full principal is the definition of a default. You can call it a "haircut" all you want, Ukraine has just defaulted - as in: they will not pay their full debts back. Who is going to invest there now? Other than EU taxpayers and IMF funny money men? ..."
The rest of Ukraine was descending into chaos, what with police and demonstrators being shot
and killed by unknown assalients from rooftops. Odessa , where 45 plus Ukrainian citizens were
trapped in a building which was set fire to by outside football supporters, then shot at and clubbed
when the citizens climbed out of the burning building seeking help. Would you risk yourself and
your family in such a situation or would you seek the protection of a friendly power?
Chillskier -> jezzam 30 Aug 2015 20:00
Ensure that Ukraine does not go under economically and eventually becomes a fully functioning
and prosperous liberal democracy.
It seems to be working pretty well..
NO it is not.
You need to talk to people who actually live there, it is a catastrophe
HollyOldDog -> truk10 30 Aug 2015 19:46
Ukraine should be wary of false friends who may lead then down a blind alley. Only today I
watched a very interesting TV program that puts the continueing existance of Monsanto into serious
doubt. The program was about wheat in terms of the future of Global Warming where presentment
her patterns within seasons would vary widely. Is it the right course of action to choose types
of GM wheat where seasonal rains would pop up at inconvenient times ( which a farmer would pay
'through the nose for') or to allow your wheats to choose the correct wheat for the growing conditions
it encounters. Some of the Wheats on test where from the times of the ancient Egyptians while
the oldest variety was around 9000 years old. Instead of gene splicing and growing micro cultures
in a lab followed by years of field testing , perhaps we should just look what our ancestors did.
I know this is not exactly on topic but I am trying to suggest Not to believe the latest SPIN,
just because it is new. NEW SPIN does not equal TRUTH. IF something looks to be too good to be
true then it is too good to be true - Forbes, verify your stories before you publish.
Beckow -> impartial12 30 Aug 2015 18:41
"Ukraine is important to the West because of its encroachment strategy against Russia"
The strategy is to somehow take over Russia by either having Yeltsin-like puppets in power
again, or maybe by physically taking it apart (separatism). The "encroachment" is just the means
to that end.
Russians had two choices when the coup happened in Kiev on the last day of the Sochi Olympics:
- do nothing and hope for the best; maybe Ukraine would run into economic troubles, maybe
it would collapse into infighting like after the Orange revolution
- quickly save what could be saved - Crimea, bases, Donbass Russians - and squeeze Ukraine
economically until it collapses
The West was surprised that Russia went for the second option and decided to fight. I think
Russia decided that this was their best chance to resist, and that facts on the ground in Ukraine
were in their favor. So far it has worked for Russia, thus the almost hysterical anger in the
West.
Beckow -> Tintenfische 30 Aug 2015 17:55
Stay sober. Russia's economy is down 4%, that's not "go down in flames". E.g. EU economy dropped
6-9% after '09, and people are ok, kind of.
The real issue is with the Ukrainian economy and living standards. Russia's per capita income
this year is 10 times higher than Ukraine's. That's very substantial, that's why about 3 million
Ukrainians work in Russia and more are coming each month.
The West tried to crash Russian economy ahead of the inevitable Ukrainian collapse, and
it failed. So now the death-watch for the Ukraine's economy has started: default on loans, catastrophic
drop in living standards and incomes, millions trying to emigrate, and energy dependency on Russia
that might turn out to be fatal if there is a cold winter in Europe.
vr13vr -> CedricH 30 Aug 2015 17:55
Yeah, I can imagine Russians being jealous of Ukrainians. The economy is collapsing, the
inflation is 40%, the far is going on, the armed Right Sector people are walking in the center
of the city, the opposition leaders are suppressed and the actions are taking against the media
that disagrees with Kiev. And while all of this, the corruption remains exactly where it used
to be. Darn, the entire world is jealous of those lucky Ukrainians.
Beckow -> Tintenfische 30 Aug 2015 17:47
"it denies the Ukrainian people any sort of agency what so ever and at the same time ignores
that the elections within the Ukraine have not been called free or fair for a generation"
I wrote 'assisted in an overthrow' - do you get the meaning of the verb "to assist"? Assisting
in an overthrow of an elected president is by any definition illegal and unconstitutional - all
else that followed has to be examined in that light.
Elections in Ukraine have been free and fair and declared so by EU itself many times. Yanukovitch
won fair and square. Russian speakers (or supporters) used to get roughly 50% of the vote, sometimes
more, sometimes little bit less. Their party - Party of Regions - was outlawed. So maybe they
are listened to, but in a very constrained way - they are certainly not equal to the Western Ukrainians.
That's why some of them started a civil war.
You don't address any of the disastrous economic consequences of Maidan and the war: Ukraine
is suffering and is much worse off than two years ago. There is no economic prosperity possible
in Ukraine without Russian cooperation (energy, imports, food, investments). That is a reality
that cannot be wished away. Unless Ukraine adjusts to being a poor, agrarian country, that exports
millions of workers, with living standards maybe like in Albania or Tunis (at best), they will
have to make peace with Russia and its own Russian leaning population. There is no other way,
even Germany and France have officially told Kiev that much.
Only US nutcases don't care about economy or living standards and prefer to play geo-political
games with Ukrainians...
SHappens -> Agrajag3k 30 Aug 2015 17:42
Ukraine can prosper perfectly well on its own, just like any other county under the right
leadership.
which they dont have. On the other hand when a big part of the country doesn't want to align
with the "West" they should be heard. That's what is called democracy
vr13vr 30 Aug 2015 16:09
Clueless. The "low intensity" fight continues, but it's evident that the chances of Kiev to
establish full control of the area are non-existent, and it is Kiev who is looking for a grace
saving exit at this point.
And as for West "helping Ukraine" by cutting down the debt by 20%, this is the freshest
interpretation of the event I've ever heard. It wasn't done to "help" Ukraine. The West agreed
to do so to avoid even messier and costlier option of default and loosing even more money in Ukraine.
Other than talking about giving some more loans to Ukraine in the future, the help to Ukraine
from the West is now minimum.
BastaYa72 -> alpamysh 30 Aug 2015 16:33
Moreover, a country with the agricultural resources of Ukraine
Land that has long since been signed over to Monsanto and DuPont as part payment for earlier
loans. Ukraine's economy is in such a state that's it's obvious that it will form the next major
refugee crisis, while Svoboda and Privvy Sector will almost certainly launch a coup to over-throw
the Kiev government.
Iraq, Libya, Ukraine - you can pretty much guarantee that wherever the West intervenes or interferes,
chaos and destruction is pretty much 'nailed-on'.
Laurence Johnson -> Beckow 30 Aug 2015 16:05
You make some very sober points. Ukraine is indeed destined to be a wasteland similar to Libya
and Syria. The scorch and burn policy of "if I cant have it, nobody can have it" is very clear.
I suspect that in twenty years time East Ukraine will be an economic miracle that engages with
Asia via Russia. As for Kiev I suspect they will still be arguing about which Oligarch has the
biggest pair of balls.
normankirk 30 Aug 2015 15:56
under the Minsk agreement, the border comes back under Ukrainian control, only when Ukraine
has done the necessary constitutional reform that grants autonomy to the Donbas. So far, Kiev
has dragged the chain , and to this day has refused dialogue with the leaders of the DPR and LPR.Poroshenko
has openly boasted of using the ceasefire to build up another military assault on the eastern
Ukrainians , and has vowed to reclaim all the terrItory by force.All this is in breach of the
Minsk agreement Articles like this, with their bias and misinformation destroys the credibility
of the guardian
This time the ceasefire may work because Merkel and Hollande have pressured Poroshenko, but
I'm not holding my breath.
Parangaricurimicuaro 30 Aug 2015 15:45
I think that Europe is having to much on its plate. Terrorism problems, energy insecurity,
bailing out Greece, refugees escaping wars south of the Mediterranean, aging population etc. so
maybe it is most than they could possible chew. Reality is sobering everyone.
SHappens Agrajag3k 30 Aug 2015 15:36
Russia has no interest in seeing the war end or seeing Ukraine prosper.
Ukraine cannot prosper without Russia's market, that's an economic truth. Ukraine can even
less prosper without the Donbass. The West must accept to share Ukraine with Russia. Federalization
can make this possible and fulfill every country's ambitions and will, except for one country
overseas, taking part to the events, we dont know why or do we?
Beckow 30 Aug 2015 15:26
Half-truths are by definition not truths. To say:
"deadline for the internationally recognised border to come back under Ukrainian government
control"
Minsk also requires that Donbass has autonomy before border is turned over. How does one leave
out the other side of the story? It is like reporting on Soviet Union conquest of Berlin in 1945
without mentioning that Germany invaded Russia in 1941. Maybe that's next in the endless search
for just the right narrative where friends are friends, and enemies are, well the enemy is Russia,
end of story. No need to actually be accurate. About Minsk or anything else.
Ukraine is bankrupt - negotiating to not pay back the full principal is the definition
of a default. You can call it a "haircut" all you want, Ukraine has just defaulted - as in: they
will not pay their full debts back. Who is going to invest there now? Other than EU taxpayers
and IMF funny money men?
Time is definitely not on Ukraine's side: economy is down by 15-17%, inflation is 40-50%, incomes
are dramatically down to roughly Senegal-Nepal level, the exports to Russia that Ukraine used
to live off are down by more than 50% and dropping - and nothing is replacing the Russian market.
With living standards are on sub-African level and with no visa-free access to EU, no investments
(see the default above), and energy dependence on Russia, how can time be on Kiev's side? How
are they going to grow out of it? What and to whom are they going to export? How is the per capita
income going to grow? Today Ukraine income is 1/10 of Russia's per capita income (that's right
10%). How is time on Kiev's side?
West triggered an unnecessary catastrophe in Ukraine by assisting in an overthrow of an elected
government. Ukraine is divided, look at all elections, look at language usage, etc... half is
pro-West, half is pro-Russian. It is impossible to have a prosperous Ukraine without both having
a say in running the country. So sooner or later, Ukraine will either go back to its traditional
role as a buffer state, or it will break-up. There is no way one group can permanently dominate
the other. And that takes us back to the Minsk treaty that specifies that Donbass gets autonomy.
Maybe we should ask Kiev what happened to that part of the treaty. Why isn't it even mentioned?
impartial12 Tintenfische 30 Aug 2015 15:19
That is funny considering the amount of armaments building up among the former nations of the
Soviet Union neighboring Russia. The escalation in Ukraine had started with an illegal coup of
an elected government. And don't even get me started on the neo-Nazi tendencies of the new regime.
It takes two to tango, and the West clearly wants to play this game no matter what negative consequences
it may bring.
SHappens 30 Aug 2015 15:14
Kiev, backed by Washington who is using Ukrainian army foot soldiers, paramilitaries, foreign
mercenaries, Nazi-infested death squads and others hasn't stopped since initiated back in April
2014. Kiev flagrantly violated the Geneva and two Minsk ceasefire agreements straightaway. Moreover
Kiev has repeatedly refused to sit and talk with the people in the East and grant them autonomy
as per Minsk.
Surely Russia supports the eastern ukrainians, rightly, in a way or another, preventing in
this way a full war offensive by Kiev, however Russian's army is not present in Ukraine. President
Putin wants peace and has been calling for it since the very start of the event, that is the ATO
launched by Kiev back in 2014.
This is the Donbass who fights against Kiev. It is the US citizens who are forced to devote
scarce resources to the dying puppet regime in Kiev (who will not avoid the country's default
anyway + they have been downgraded), while Russia can stay away making peace proposals. If the
US wants to put the fire, they will put it so it is necessary to be able to quickly turn it off
to preserve what is most precious. That's why Putin considers peace of vital importance.
We can only guess who will be most effective - the US with their fuel container or the Russians
with their fire extinguisher?
"... the government conceded that it must pay a higher interest rate on the remaining debts. ..."
"... includes a four-year extension on repayments ..."
"... In Moscow, the Russian finance minister, Anton Siluanov, said Russia would not participate in the agreement. Ukraine owes Russia a $3bn eurobond due for full repayment in December. The need to repay Russia represents a dilemma for the IMF as it considers whether to pump further funds into Ukraine, possibly in conjunction with Brussels. It is not officially allowed to continue lending to a country that is in default to another sovereign. ..."
"... The Washington-based lender of last resort has already come up against criticism for its lending policy, which critics believe forces the government to pursue draconian austerity measures that will depress growth and increase its debts. Exotix credit strategist Jokob Christensen said the bondholders were the clear winners. "I have a hard time seeing how this deal will help reduce [Ukraine's] debt to 71% of GDP in 2020, which is one of the crucial targets in the operation," he said. ..."
Ukraine has secured a 20% writedown on $18bn (Ł11.6bn) of its foreign debts in a deal its finance
minister described as win-win...
... ... ...
The hedge funds holding Ukrainian debt will write off around $4bn in return for securities that
will pay holders a percentage of Ukraine's economic growth from 2021. But in a move that is likely
to dismay many MPs in the Kiev parliament, the government conceded that it must pay a higher
interest rate on the remaining debts.
The deal, which still needs to be approved by creditors outside the group, includes a four-year
extension on repayments to give Ukraine breathing space. But the interest rate on the bonds
will rise 0.5 percentage points to 7.75%. It ended months of tense negotiations aimed at helping
to keep the country on track with its International Monetary Fund-led bailout programme, plugging
a funding gap and preventing a unilateral debt default.
Ukraine's finance minister, Natalia Yaresko, who had sought a 40% debt haircut, said the deal
meets all targets set by the IMF bailout programme and would allow the country to move ahead. "Everyone's
done well out of this deal. That's why it's collaborative. It's not one side winning, it's a win-win
situation. We're all now moving forward without putting the value of the bonds at any further risk,"
she said.
Ukraine's sovereign dollar bond prices surged after the news, indicating that traders viewed the
remaining debt to be on a more secure footing. Its 2017 issue rose 8.7 cents to trade at 64.5 cents
in the dollar, according to Tradeweb data, while the 2022 bond rose 10 cents.
In Moscow, the Russian finance minister, Anton Siluanov, said Russia would not participate
in the agreement. Ukraine owes Russia a $3bn eurobond due for full repayment in December. The need
to repay Russia represents a dilemma for the IMF as it considers whether to pump further funds into
Ukraine, possibly in conjunction with Brussels. It is not officially allowed to continue lending
to a country that is in default to another sovereign.
The debt deal should help keep Ukraine's national currency, the hryvnia, stable and allow increased
spending on defence in the east,...
... ... ...
The Washington-based lender of last resort has already come up against criticism for its lending
policy, which critics believe forces the government to pursue draconian austerity measures that will
depress growth and increase its debts. Exotix credit strategist Jokob Christensen said the bondholders
were the clear winners. "I have a hard time seeing how this deal will help reduce [Ukraine's] debt
to 71% of GDP in 2020, which is one of the crucial targets in the operation," he said.
Gabriel Sterne, head of global macro at Oxford Economics, also cast doubt on whether the deal
would make Ukraine's debt levels sustainable and added: "There is a strong likelihood that they will
be back at the negotiating table before too many IMF reviews have passed."
Talks had been held up over a disagreement with creditors on whether to provide Kiev with a writedown
on the face value of the bonds. Kiev had initially sought a 40% cut. "We started in different places,
because the creditor committee didn't believe we had a solvency problem but my goal was not a particular
number, it was meeting those IMF targets," Yaresko said. She added that she hoped it was highly unlikely
that remaining creditors would reject the agreement and forecast that the process would be wrapped
up by the end of October.
The debt deal Ukraine has painstakingly negotiated with its creditors is welcome and preferable
to the alternative: a default that would have put additional pressure on the country's shaky banks
and led to both capital flight and a protracted battle in the courts. But amid all the backslapping
a bit of perspective is needed.
Greece has severe problems but Ukraine is the most troubled country in Europe. It has inflation
at 55%, its economy is expected to contract by 10% this year, and the government is fighting a war
with separatists in the east backed by Russia that is costly in both human and financial terms.
The deal involves a 20% writedown to the face value of $18bn of eurobonds and pushes back the
date on which the bonds will be redeemed by four years. Ukraine has some breathing space and the
accord means it will continue to be eligible for financial help from the International Monetary Fund.
That's the good news.
But the finance minister, Natalia Yaresko, had to scale back her ambitions once it became clear
creditors thought Kiev's threat to default was a bluff. She has had to offer higher interest rates
when debt payments resume and has had to accept a 20% writedown rather than the 40% she wanted.
Ukraine's debts remain high and its economy is in freefall. This agreement is a stop gap not a
game changer.
Moody's Investors' Service rates seven countries Caa1 or worse, several tiers lower than Ba1,
which still carries a significant credit risk. These countries are approaching or have narrowly escaped
bankruptcy. Ukraine is rated Ca, which is currently the lowest credit rating of any country reviewed
by Moody's.
... ... ...
Ukraine
> Moody's credit rating: Ca
> Moody's outlook: Negative
> 2015 Gov't debt (pct. of GDP): 94.1%
> 2015 GDP per capita (PPP): $8,278
Ukraine's conflict with Russia over its annexation of Crimea continues to fuel the country's financial
problems. While the IMF approved Ukraine's debt restructuring plan in March, Ukraine has the worst
credit rating of any country reviewed, downgraded this year from Caa3 to Ca, the second lowest possible
level. Creditors can expect a 35% to 65% recovery rate on loans issued by the country. According
to Moody's, "The likelihood of a distressed exchange, and hence a default on government debt taking
place, is virtually 100%."
The same day that Moody's issued the downgrade, the National Bank of Ukraine announced the establishment
of the Financial Stability Council. According to Governor of the National Bank of Ukraine Valeriia
Gonatreva, the Council's function will be to "take a comprehensive and systemic approach to identify
and mitigate the risks threatening the stability of the banking and financial systems of the country."
According to Markov, Kiev was only interested in the first part of the Minsk Accords, namely
in a panic to stop counter-offensive of Novorossiya army, after their debacle at Debaltsevo.
But they have zero interest in carrying out the rest of the accords.
Plus, according to Markov, Kiev is under instructions from their American masters, to continue
the war at all costs.
According to Markov, Kiev is actually carrying out a plan called the "Gorbulin-Poroshenko Plan",
and I googled Gorbulin, but couldn't get any more information, so I don't know who this person
is.
But the main points of this Gorbulin-Poroshenko Plan are said to be:
1. Kiev does not take on any (Minsk) obligations which involve peace-making moves.
2. Full blockade (of Donbass).
3. Continue artillery shelling of residential areas of Donbass, kill as many civilians as possible.
4. This in order to make life unbearable in Donbass.
5. The goal is to turn the residents against their leaders, in DPR and LPR.
6. Weaken Russia with sanctions.
7. Planning a military blitzkrieg against Donbass, on the model of the attack of Croatian army
against Serbian Krajina.
8. NATO will station troops in Kharkov, Zaporozhie and Dnipropetrovsk.
9. NATO will beef up Ukrainian army and prepare for fatal strike against Donbass.
10. The police state/dictatorship in Ukraine will be strengthened.
marknesop, August 7, 2015 at 5:45 pm
Volodymyr (Ukraine has to spell it differently so they can all high-five each other, the way
the British deliberately misspell "tire") Gorbulin is the former National Defense and Security
Council (NDSC) Secretary, now a personal adviser to Poroshenko. Looks a right Himmler type.
In Western MSM the 17.6% year to year GDP drop in Ukraine in 2014 is mentioned as a just a number without
any context. The IMF's mission in Ukraine has said the country's GDP is expected to shrink 9 percent
this year, with annual inflation jumping to 46 percent. Ukraine's national currency, the hryvnia,
has lost more than half its value so far in 2015. Unresolved conflict in the country's east
took a big toll on the economy in the first quarter of 2015, it said.
But during the Great Depression the US GDP contracted "only" 25%. In any given year
of that depression it did not drop 17%. Also, in the case of Ukraine, it has already underwent its first
Great Depression, which was worse than the US depression during the 1990s. So we are looking at
The Second Great Depression in Ukraine. This is the meaning of this 17.6 drop. Ukrainian pensioners
are brought by brave Western neocons with the help of local fifth column to the real starvation
level. This is an important story and yet Western MSM ignore it much like they ignore now flight
MH17. Instead we have overoptimistic "confidence enhancing" forecasts from Moody's, the World
Bank, the IMF, and other western agencies. Which are pure political fluff. when in reality we need to
state that USA neocons (see Nulandgate) destroyed
the Ukraine economics and plunge the country into another Great Depression.
"Не нужно обманываться, рецессия продолжается, у нас нет никакого там дна, которое мы нащупали;
оно еще впереди. Вопрос: достигнем ли мы дна к концу года? У меня большие сомнения на этот счет.
Все говорит о том, что и концу 2015 года ситуация не успокоится, движение вниз будет продолжаться",
- считает эксперт.
(с)http://mignews.com.ua/avtor/opinions/5724829.html
"...The Ukraine crisis reminds us that the pathology is not limited to the peculiar dreamers who
made policy during the Bush II administration, whose idea of reality was idealist beyond all logic.
It is a late-imperial phenomenon that extends across the board. "Unprecedented" is considered a dangerous
word in journalism, but it may describe the Obama administration's furious efforts to manufacture a
Ukraine narrative and our media's incessant reproduction of all its fallacies."
A sophisticated game of manipulation is afoot over Russia: power, influence and money. U.S.
hands are not clean
A couple of weeks ago, this column guardedly suggested that John Kerry's day-long talks in Sochi
with Vladimir Putin and his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, looked like a break in the clouds on
numerous questions, primarily the Ukraine crisis. I saw no evidence that President Obama's secretary
of state had suddenly developed a sensible, post-imperium foreign strategy consonant with a new era.
It was force of circumstance. It was the 21st century doing its work.
This work will get done, cleanly and peaceably or otherwise.
Sochi, an unexpected development, suggested the prospect of cleanliness and peace. But events
since suggest that otherwise is more likely to prove the case. It is hard to say because it is hard
to see, but our policy cliques may be gradually wading into very deep water in Ukraine.
Ever since the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, reality itself has come to seem up for
grabs. Karl Rove, a diabolically competent political infighter but of no discernible intellectual
weight, may have been prescient when he told us to forget our pedestrian notions of reality-real
live reality. Empires create their own, he said, and we're an empire now.
The Ukraine crisis reminds us that the pathology is not limited to the peculiar dreamers who
made policy during the Bush II administration, whose idea of reality was idealist beyond all logic.
It is a late-imperial phenomenon that extends across the board. "Unprecedented" is considered a dangerous
word in journalism, but it may describe the Obama administration's furious efforts to manufacture
a Ukraine narrative and our media's incessant reproduction of all its fallacies.
At this point it is only sensible to turn everything that is said or shown in our media upside
down and consider it a second time. Who could want to live in a world this much like Orwell's or
Huxley's-the one obliterating reality by destroying language, the other by making historical reference
a transgression?
Language and history: As argued several times in this space, these are the weapons we are not
supposed to have.
Ukraine now gives us two fearsome examples of what I mean by inverted reason.
One, it has been raining reports of Russia's renewed military presence in eastern Ukraine lately.
One puts them down and asks, What does Washington have on the story board now, an escalation of American
military involvement? A covert op? Let us watch.
Two, we hear ever-shriller charges that Moscow has mounted a dangerous, security-threatening propaganda
campaign to destroy the truth-our truth, we can say. It is nothing short of "the weaponization of
information," we are provocatively warned. Let us be on notice: Our truth and our air are now as
polluted with propaganda as during the Cold War decades, and the only apparent plan is to make it
worse.
O.K., let us do what sorting can be done.
Charges that Russia is variously amassing troops and materiel on its border with Ukraine or sending
same across said border are nothing new. They are what General Breedlove, the strange-as-Strangelove
NATO commander, gets paid to put out. These can be ignored, as most Europeans do.
But in April a new round of the escalation charges began. Michael Gordon, the New York Times'
reliably obliging State Department correspondent, reported in a story with a single named source
that Russia was adding soldiers and air defense systems along its border.
The sources for this were Marie Harf, one of State's spokespeople, and the standard variety of
unnamed officials and analysts. Here is how it begins:
In a sign that the tense crisis in Ukraine could soon escalate, Russia has continued to deploy
air defense systems in eastern Ukraine and has built up its forces near the border, American officials
said on Wednesday.
Western officials are not sure if the military moves are preparations for a new Russian-backed
offensive that would be intended to help the separatists seize additional territory.
"Could," "has continued," "not sure," "would be." And this was the lead, where the strongest stuff
goes.
Scrape away the innuendo, and what you are reading in this piece is a whole lot of nothing. The
second paragraph, stating what officials are not sure of, was a necessary contortion to get in the
phrase "new Russian-backed offensive," which was the point of the piece. As journalism, this is so
bad it belongs in a specimen jar.
Context, the stuff this kind of reporting does its best to keep from readers:
By mid-April, Washington was still at work trying to subvert the Minsk II ceasefire, an anti-Russian
assassination campaign was under way in Kiev and the Poroshenko government, whether or not it approved
of the campaign, was proving unable, unwilling or both to implement any of the constitutional revisions
to which Minsk II committed it.
A week before the April 22 report, 300 troops from the 173rd Airborne had arrived to begin training
the Ukrainian national guard. The Times piece acknowledged this for the simple reason it was the
elephant in the living room, but by heavy-handed implication it dismissed any thought of causality.
Given the context, I would not be at all surprised to learn that Moscow may have put air defense
systems in place. And I am not at all sure what is so worrisome about them. Maybe it is the same
reasoning Benjamin Netanyahu applied when Russia recently agreed to supply Iran with air defense
technology: It will make it harder for us to attack them, the dangerous Israeli complained.
Neither am I sure what is so worrisome about Russians training eastern Ukrainian partisans-another
charge Harf leveled-if it is supposed to be a mystery why American trainers at the other end of the
country prompt alarm in Moscow.
Onward from April 22 the new theme flowed. On May 17 Kiev claimed that it had captured two uniformed
Russian soldiers operating inside Ukraine. On May 21 came reports that European monitors had interviewed
the two under unstated conditions and had ascertained they were indeed active-duty infantry. This
gave "some credence" to Kiev's claim, the Times noted, although at this point some is far short of
enough when Kiev makes these kinds of assertions.
On May 30-drum roll, please-came the absolute coup de grâce. The Atlantic Council, one of the
Washington think tanks-its shtick seems to be some stripe of housebroken neoliberalism-published
a report purporting to show that, in the Times' language, "Russia is continuing to defy the West
by conducting protracted military operations inside Ukraine."
Read the report here. It's first sentence: "Russia is at war with Ukraine."
"Continuing to defy?" "At war with Ukraine?" If you refuse to accept the long, documented record
of Moscow's efforts to work toward a negotiated settlement with Europe-and around defiant Americans-and
if you call the Ukraine conflict other than a civil war, well, someone is creating your reality for
you.
Details. The Times described "Hiding in Plain Sight: Putin's War in Ukraine" as "an independent
report." I imagine Gordon-he seems to do all the blurry stuff these days-had a straight face when
he wrote three paragraphs later that John Herbst, one of the Atlantic Council's authors, is a former
ambassador to Ukraine.
I do not know what kind of a face Gordon wore when he reported later on that the Atlantic Council
paper rests on research done by Bellingcat.com, "an investigative website." Or when he let Herbst
get away with calling Bellingcat, which appears to operate from a third-floor office in Leicester,
a city in the English Midlands, "independent researchers."
I wonder, honestly, if correspondents look sad when they write such things-sad their work has
come to this.
One, Bellingcat did its work using Google, YouTube and other readily available social media technologies,
and this we are supposed to think is the cleverest thing under the sun. Are you kidding?
Manipulating social media "evidence" has been a parlor game in Kiev; Washington; Langley, Virginia,
and at NATO since the Ukraine crisis broke open. Look at the graphics included in the presentation.
I do not think technical expertise is required to see that these images prove what all others offered
as evidence since last year prove: nothing. It looks like the usual hocus-pocus.
Two, examine the Bellingcat web site and try to figure out who runs it. I tried the about page
and it was blank. The site consists of badly supported anti-Russian "reports"-no "investigation"
aimed in any other direction.
I look at this stuff now and think, Well, there may be activity on Russia's borders or inside
Ukraine, but maybe not. Those two soldiers may be Russian and may be on active duty, but I cannot
draw any conclusion.
I do not appreciate having to think this way-not as a reader and not as a former newsman. I do
not like reading Times editorials, such as Tuesday's, which institutionalizes "Putin's war" and other
such tropes, and having to say, Our most powerful newspaper is into the created reality game.
A few things can be made clear in all this. Straight off the top it is almost certain, despite
a logical wariness of presented evidence, that Russia has personnel and weapons deployed along its
border and in Ukraine.
I greatly hope so, and whether they are on duty or otherwise interests me not at all.
First of all, it is a highly restrained approach to a geopolitical circumstance that Moscow recognizes
as dangerous, Washington does not seem to and Kiev emphatically does not. In reversed circumstances,
a troubled nation would have long back turned into an open conflict between two nuclear powers. Fig
leafs have their place.
I have written before on the question of spheres of influence: They are to be observed if not
honored. Stephen Cohen, the Russianist scholar, prefers "spheres of security," and the phrase makes
the point plainly. Russia cannot be expected to abandon its interests as Cohen defines them, and
considering what is at issue for Moscow, the response is intelligently measured.
Equally, Moscow appears to recognize that without any equilibrium between the Russian-tilted east
and the Western-tilted west, Ukraine will be a bloodbath. Irresponsible as it has proven, and with
little or no control over armed extreme rightist factions, Kiev cannot be allowed even an attempt
to resolve this crisis militarily.
One has to consider how these things are conventionally done. I had a cousin who piloted helicopters
in Vietnam long ago. When we spread the conflict to Laos and Cambodia he flew in blue jeans, a T-shirt,
sneakers and without dog tags. "If you go down, we don't know you," was the O.D.
A directly germane case is Angola in the mid-1970s. When the Portuguese were forced to flee the
old colony, the CIA began supplying right-wing opportunists in the north and south with weapons,
money, and agency personnel. Only in response did Cuba send troops that quickly proved decisive.
I remember well all the howls of "aggression"-all of them hypocritical rubbish: American efforts
to subvert the movement that still governs Angola peaceably continued for a dozen more years.
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The Times editorial just noted is headlined, "Vladimir Putin Hides the Truth." This is upside-down-ism
at its very worst.
It is not easy to put accounts of the Ukraine crisis side by side to compare them. Think of two
bottles of unlabeled wine in a blind taste test. Now read on.
I do not see how there can be any question that Moscow's take on Ukraine and the larger East-West
confrontation is the more coherent. Read or listen to Putin's speeches, notably that delivered at
the Valdai Discussion Club, a Davos variant, in Sochi last October. It is historically informed,
with a grasp of interests (common and opposing), the nature of the 21st century environment and how
best outcomes are to be achieved in it.
Altogether, Moscow offers a vastly more sophisticated, coherent accounting of the Ukraine crisis
than any American official has or ever will. This is for one simple reason: Neither Putin nor Lavrov
bears the burden American officials do of having to sell people mythical renderings of how the world
works or their place in it.
Russia's interests are clear and can be stated clearly, to put the point another way. America's-the
expansion of opportunity for capital and the projection of power-must always remain shrouded.
The question of plausibility is a serious imbalance, critical in its implications. In my view
it accounts for that probably unprecedented propaganda effort noted earlier. It has ensued apace
since Andrew Lack, named in January as America's first chief propaganda officer (CEO of the new Broadcasting
Board of Governors), instantly declared information a field of battle. A war of the worldviews, we
may call it.
This war grows feverish as we speak. In the current edition of The Nation, a journalist named
James Carden publishes a remarkable piece detailing the extremes now approached. I rank it a must
read, and you can find it here.
Carden's piece is called "The New McCarthyism," and any reader having a look will know well enough
why our drift back toward the paranoid style of the 1950s is something we all ought to guard against.
A great deal of this column would be banned as "disinformation." Whatever your stripe, I urge you
to recognize this as serious.
The focus here is on a report called "The Menace of Unreality: How the Kremlin Weaponizes Information,
Culture and Money." It is written by Peter Pomerantsev and Michael Weiss. It is published by an Internet
magazine called The Intepreter, as a special report sponsored by the Institute for Modern Russia.
Credential problems galore. Weiss is an "expert" on flavors of the month, a main-chancer who sat
at the late Christopher Hitchens' feet and inhabited a think tank in London before taking the editor's
chair at The Interpreter. Pomersantsev was a TV producer in the most decadent corners of the Russian
media circus, wheeling against it all only when he lost out. Now he is a darling of our media, naturally.
Both, most important, seem to carry water for Michail Khodorkovsky, the oligarchic crook whom
Western media, from the Times on down, now lionize as a democrat because he and Putin are enemies.
Khodorkovsky funds the Institute for Modern Russia, based in New York. The IMR, in turn, funds The
Interpreter.
Got the fix? Ready to take this report seriously, are we?
Astonishingly enough, a lot of people are. As Carden reports, Weiss and Pomerantsev cut considerable
mustard among the many members of Congress nursing the new Russophobia. Anne Applebaum, the prominent
paranoid on all questions Russian; and Geoffrey Pyatt, Obama's coup-cultivating ambassador in Kiev:
Many weighty figures stand with these guys.
Carden lays out his thesis expertly. Putin's weaponization of news makes him more dangerous than
any communist ever was, "The Menace of Unreality" asserts, and he must be countered. How? With "an
internationally recognized ratings system for disinformation."
"Media organizations that practice conscious deception should be excluded from the community,"
Weiss and Pomerantsev write-the community being those of approved thought.
No, Carden is not kidding.
It may seem odd, but I credit Weiss and Pomerantsev with one insight. The infection of ideology
now debilitates us. Blindness spreads and has to be treated. But there agreement ends, as I consider
their report to be among the more extreme cases of the disease so far to show itself.
You can follow the internal logic, but I would not spend too much time on it because there is
none once you exit their bubble. There is only one truth, the argument runs, and it just so happens
it is exactly what we think. There is no other way to see things. All is TINA, "there is no alternative."
It would be easy to dismiss Weiss and Pomerantsev as supercilious hacks, and I do. But not the
stance. They say too clumsily and bluntly what is actually the prevalent intellectual frame, a key
aspect of the neoliberal stance. TINA, the argument Thatcher made famous, applies to all things.
To say "The Menace of Unreality" advocates a kind of intellectual protectionism is not strong
enough. Their idea comes to the control of information, which is to say the control of the truth.
And if you can think of a more efficient way to define the production of propaganda, use the comment
box.
Fighting alleged propaganda with propaganda: This is upside down for you. It is what we get when
people make up reality for us.
Patrick Smith is the author of "Time No Longer: Americans After the American Century." He was the
International Herald Tribune's bureau chief in Hong Kong and then Tokyo from 1985 to 1992. During
this time he also wrote "Letter from Tokyo" for the New Yorker. He is the author of four previous
books and has contributed frequently to the New York Times, the Nation, the Washington Quarterly,
and other publications. Follow him on Twitter, @thefloutist.
"...The nature of the war in Donbass seems to have changed lately, and not in a good way for Novorossiya." . "...The latest battle in Marinka was a good demonstration. The Kiev junta used Marinka as a
base for shelling other parts of Donetsk. The junta also fortified Marinka well with the help of their
US advisers. As the civilian casualties started to mount the NAF had no other options than to start
an offensive against Marinka. The NAF suffered heavy losses (hundreds of KIA according to pro-Novorossiyan
sources) and managed to capture only a small part of Marinka. The Kiev junta considered the outcome
as a victory since they managed to inflict heavy losses for the NAF and keep most of Marinka."
.
"...Yes, I think you're right, and the days of cheap victories – relatively speaking, I don't mean
to trivialize NAF losses and civilian casualties, but I'm talking about victories like Ilovaisk and
Debaltseve – are over for Novorossiya. The new strategy does appear to be to draw the NAF in and make
them commit to an offensive which will give Kiev's forces a chance, an excuse, to strike.
The nature of the war in Donbass seems to have changed lately, and not in a good way for Novorossiya.
Instead of suicidal offensives and going into cauldrons the Ukrainian military is staying put
and shelling both the military and civilian targets in Donbass. In this week hundreds of civilians
in different parts of Donbass have been killed by the shelling of Kiev. I'm sure the American
advisers have played their part in this change of strategy.
What does this mean? The NAF (Novorossiyan Armed Forces) have to go for an offensives against
well fortified junta positions. This will
cause great losses in manpower and arms for the NAF
give Kiev and the West a good pretext to blame the NAF for escalation and breach of Minsk
agreement (as they ignore the previous shelling of Kiev and only take notice when the NAF goes
for an offensive) and extend the sanctions on Russia.
The latest battle in Marinka was a good demonstration. The Kiev junta used Marinka as a
base for shelling other parts of Donetsk. The junta also fortified Marinka well with the help
of their US advisers. As the civilian casualties started to mount the NAF had no other options
than to start an offensive against Marinka. The NAF suffered heavy losses (hundreds of KIA according
to pro-Novorossiyan sources) and managed to capture only a small part of Marinka. The Kiev junta
considered the outcome as a victory since they managed to inflict heavy losses for the NAF and
keep most of Marinka.
I'm afraid that outcomes like happened in Ilovaysk and Debaltsevo are not going to happen anymore.
The Ukrainian military is simply better than it was then. They have become wiser. They "bait"
the NAF to attack by killing scores of civilians and then repel these attacks while inflicting
heavy losses for the NAF.
The current standings in the war are in favor of Kiev, since Novorossiya is in a constant survival
mode. The war has been going on for a year and the enemy has not even been driven out of Donetsk
yet. In order to do so Donbass needs increased Russian help which may not be coming. Expect this
war to continue for at least two or three more years with thousands of more civilians dying.
Yes, I think you're right, and the days of cheap victories – relatively speaking, I don't
mean to trivialize NAF losses and civilian casualties, but I'm talking about victories like Ilovaisk
and Debaltseve – are over for Novorossiya. The new strategy does appear to be to draw the NAF
in and make them commit to an offensive which will give Kiev's forces a chance, an excuse, to
strike.
But what then? Have the UAF grown mighty and skilled in their idleness, with battalions
of crack troops and tactics up the wazoo? Hardly. A major lunge at Novorossiya will likely end
the way the other attempts have, and Ukraine cannot really afford to lose another major battle.
So if the NAF will not be drawn, it's a grinding war of attrition that holds no promise of a blinding
victory for Kiev, which must keep its troops deployed in the field while the NAF is at home. The
recent curtailment of water and food supplies suggest Kiev is getting impatient, but those measures
only make the state look heavy-handed and oppressive as well as a violator of international law
– and while there will be no punishment, naturally, make no mistake; people notice – and are most
unlikely to break Novorossiya's will as Ukraine does not control the border.
The constant shelling is just Porky's way of being seen to do something, but it is unlikely
to produce any tactical successes unless the NAF lunges for the bait and the two sides commit
to a major battle. And in that case, unless Kiev can get heavy weapons to the front in a hurry,
it is likely to lose again and perhaps the demarcation of Novorossiya will expand again.
The NAF suffered heavy losses (hundreds of KIA according to pro-Novorossiyan sources)
I think he exaggerates in both cases. The only figure into 100s I've seen was something about
200 KIA from Kiev-1 which is a Right Sector force. And something about 2 Ural trucks of bodies.
Now that would not be truckloads of bodies picked up (UAF is not good about taking their dead
especially in mid-battle) but sounds more like 2 truckloads of arriving soldiers killed before
getting out, ie the trucks were blown up. The "200 KIA" is a translation error, ie 200(KIA) meaning
they "became 200s (dead)" explaining what the 200 code means.
Civilian deaths for the whole past week I think are around 20 but a lot of wounded, many not
directly shot but by collapsing walls etc. About 100 were evacuated from a Donetsk hospital, including
sick people, not freshly wounded. For Maryinka NAF admitted to about 30 KIA and 90 wounded, only
a few seriously; I've seen video showing some with single bandages on what seem to be single shrapnel
wounds.
Oh for the good old days of Minsk1, when many areas were just holding the line, no advance
possible, so they didn't try very hard. "Hey! we're trying to cook breakfast here" "Oh sorry,
we'll give you half an hour" before desultory shelling starts.
Quote: "In this sense, the issue of whether Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky can
legitimately claim to represent the people of Donbass is beside the point.
Whatever the right and wrong of the matter, they have the guns. The Ukrainian
government is incapable of defeating them by force. The only way it can regain
its lost territories is through negotiation, and the people it has to negotiate
with are those who control the rebel states. In saying this, I am not trying to
make a moral comment about the worthiness or otherwise of the rebel cause. This
is a purely practical conclusion. If Kiev wants to reunite its country in a
peaceful way, sooner or later it is going to have speak to its enemies."
On Friday I chaired a panel at the annual conference of the Canadian
Association of Slavists on the subject of the war in Ukraine. One theme which
repeatedly came up was the need for dialogue between Kiev and the inhabitants
of Eastern Ukraine in order to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. That,
however, raised the question 'dialogue with whom?', and that is where the
difficulties begin.
Many critics of the Ukrainian government have complained
that it has repeatedly refused to engage in dialogue with the people of
Donbass. The government's supporters, however, respond that doing so isn't
easy. The collapse in February 2014 of the Party of the Regions, which had
previously dominated Eastern Ukrainian politics, meant that Eastern Ukraine was
left without leadership. There was at that point, it is said, nobody with whom
the new authorities in Kiev could have held meaningful negotiations. As for
now, the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR),
Aleksandr Zakharchenko and Igor Plotnitsky, allegedly lack any legitimate claim
to speak on behalf of the people of Donbass.
Against this, others complain that while it might have been difficult for
Kiev to find credible interlocutors in Donbass in the early stages of the
conflict, it never even tried to do so. Nor is it trying today. There are, for
instance, civil society groups operating in Donbass, some of them pro-Ukrainian
(in the sense of wanting to remain part of Ukraine), but the Ukrainian
government refuses to talk even to them, because although they are
pro-Ukrainian they also demand political autonomy for Donbass. Were the
authorities in Kiev to reach out to such people and make suitable political
concessions, they might, it is claimed, find a way of bypassing the DPR and LPR
authorities to get the support of the people of Donbass for a political
settlement.
This last idea is, in theory, a good one, but I fear that it comes a year
too late. Thirteen or fourteen months ago, when the DPR and LPR consisted of
nothing more than a handful of people sitting in buildings in Donetsk and
Lugansk, it might have worked. At that point in time, a concerted effort to
find influential interlocutors, along with some timely and substantial
political concessions, could have isolated the more radical elements from the
mass of the population. In the terminology of Maoist insurgency theory, the
government could have drained the sea in which the fishes swam. Now, that is no
longer possible. Day by day the DPR and LPR acquire more and more of the
attributes of real states. They have also amassed large armies, with tens of
thousands of troops, as well as hundreds of tanks, armoured personnel carriers,
and artillery pieces. The rebel republics have power, and people and
institutions which have acquired power through bitter struggle don't just give
it up without getting something in return.
In this sense, the issue of whether Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky can
legitimately claim to represent the people of Donbass is beside the point.
Whatever the right and wrong of the matter, they have the guns. The Ukrainian
government is incapable of defeating them by force. The only way it can regain
its lost territories is through negotiation, and the people it has to negotiate
with are those who control the rebel states. In saying this, I am not trying to
make a moral comment about the worthiness or otherwise of the rebel cause. This
is a purely practical conclusion. If Kiev wants to reunite its country in a
peaceful way, sooner or later it is going to have speak to its enemies.
"...As a starting point, it would be hard to envision a more dramatically effective program of
economic ruin than what has been done to Ukraine by its western friends."
"... Europe made it clear recently that admission to the European Union is not
in the cards for Ukraine, which is reassuring, in a way, because it means at
least a few people in Europe are still capable of thinking beyond the
weekend. Ukraine's economy is being preserved on life support to save the
dirty, messy embarrassment of a public default, because the west is entirely
and totally to blame for Ukraine's economic disaster. The west hand-picked
the government, and then encouraged it to re-take its eastern regions by
military force. Ukraine faces a future in which it will be broke and
friendless, drifting aimlessly at the whim of whoever will lend it money.
And when you think about it, the Maidanite zealots and the fascist strutters
are a minority, coming mostly from the west of Ukraine and Kiev. That still
leaves a lot – millions – of Ukrainians who did nothing to bring this
calamity upon themselves, but who will nonetheless suffer the consequences
of their leaders' idiocy and greed and the meddling of western
interventionists who will accept ruining Ukraine so Russia can't have it if
they cannot win it."
"...Ukraine earns around $3 Billion a year from gas transit fees. How is the loss of this income going
to impact Ukraine, in view of its medium-term economic forecast?"
Anyone who has not sleepwalked through the gas-price squabble between Russia and Ukraine since
the Great Freedom Jubilee known as EuroMaidan is aware that Russia has grown fed up with Ukraine's
posturing and loose grip on reality – neither being a quality that is endearing or inspirational
of confidence in its reliability as a gas-transit country for Europe. Russia has had projects underway
for some time to gradually reduce its reliance on Ukraine as a gas-transit corridor for Russian
gas since the stand-off in 2009, in which Ukraine was siphoning off gas intended for Europe for
its own use free of charge, while Russia was expected to just make up the difference – Ukraine was
confident Russia was without alternatives, since it would not dare shut off Europe's gas. Which
it did, of course, initiating a panic and a lasting reputation for Russia as an unreliable energy
partner. Nothing much was ever said about Ukraine stealing gas; Europe made a few comments to the
effect that there was wrong on both sides, and left it at that, and ever afterward the narrative
was that they knew Russia accused Ukraine of stealing gas, but where was the evidence?
Russia constructed the Nord Stream pipeline, and partially completed South Stream, the two of
which together would handle the entirety of gas shipped to Europe, without going through Ukraine.
The EU dug in its heels, and went on about how everyone needs rules and Russia would have to abide
by the Third Energy Package which said the same company cannot own both the gas and the pipeline,
and lots of other twaddle although it simply hands out exemptions to its own suppliers, and Russia
canceled South Stream. The EU was jubilant – it had put those Russkies in their place, by God!
Which brings us, skipping over many other details which are of great import but not germane to
the gas situation, to where we are now. Russia has announced it will construct Turkish Stream instead,
delivering the same amount forecast for South Stream – 63 BCm – to the Turkish/Greek border. If
Europe wants gas, it can build pipeline infrastructure to take it from that point. If not, fine
– start busting up Granny's piano for firewood. And none –
as of 2019
at the latest but probably around 2017 – will go through Ukraine.
Ukraine earns around $3 Billion a year from gas transit fees. How is the loss of this income going
to impact Ukraine, in view of its medium-term economic forecast?
As a starting point, it would
be hard to envision a more dramatically effective program of economic ruin than what has been done
to Ukraine by its western friends. The currency has
fallen off a cliff,
averaging 7.29 to the U.S. dollar between 2002 and 2015, spiking to a record low value of 33.5 to
the dollar in February of 2015 and currently at a ruinous 20.44. Whoever wrote the summary apparently
wanted to camouflage the moment of disaster by averaging the value of the hryvnia from 2002 to 2015,
because the value declined steadily throughout 2014 and can be traced almost to the minute to the
Euromaidan demonstrations, accelerating to a screaming power dive after they turned violent and
cratering with the collapse of the Debaltseve cauldron. The stock market
has fallen to a quarter
of its value in 2008. The most recent
GDP Growth Rate
is a contraction of 3.8% in the final quarter of 2014 – certainly worsening since then – and annually
is a jaw-dropping
contraction of 17.6%. Helpfully – I meant that sarcastically – the
official unemployment
rate has soared to 9.7% over 2013's low of 7.6%, and has been over 9% since the beginning of
2014, while inflation has
bulleted its way
up to 60.9%. All these are figures the state statistics service will admit to. Meanwhile, its
hapless government merrily enacts a debt moratorium, authorizing itself to put a hold on payments
to its creditors, even as it
doubles "defense spending".
Anyway, on to the sometimes comical dynamics of the European gas business. I think my favourite
is the smirking strut executed by various countries as they claim to be "weaning themselves off
of Russian gas" by importing gas from some other European country that is a net importer of Russian
gas. Like Poland, for example. Kiev was quite proud of itself when, in 2012, it
reduced its imports of Russian gas by taking delivery of gas from RWE in Poland on a trial basis.
These imports continued into 2013 – a year in which Poland (which is also "weaning itself off of
Russian gas")
took 60% of its gas from Russia. They've wised up now, though, and plan to import significantly
more gas from Germany…which
gets 38% of its gas from Russia. Oh, and they're building an LNG terminal into which they
plan to import LNG from Qatar via tankers. More expensive than pipeline gas, of course, which is
just good economics by European standards, but at least they can fly a Polish flag on the LNG terminal.
You just can't put a price on national pride, can you? And they'll be able – in their dreams – to
say goodbye to gas imports someday from that evil undemocratic Stalin dictatorship of Russia in
favour of freedom gas from the smiling Qataris, ruled through a
constitutional
monarchy in which the Emir exercises absolute power and whose heirs come from the male branch
of the al-Thani family.
Meanwhile, Ukraine itself remains the fifth-heaviest consumer of natural gas in Europe, at some
55 BCm annually. Mind you, it should realize significant savings in consumption by the almost-complete
loss of its heavy industry sector, most of which is in the east – every cloud has a silver lining,
what? But Ukraine's domestic production peaked at 68 BCm forty years back, has been in decline since
then and now amounts to about 20 BCm – less than half its current consumption. So in order for Ukraine
to wean itself off of Russian gas, it is going to have to either cut its consumption in half or
buy reverse-flowed gas from other European countries – using mostly handout money, since it is going
to lose $3 Billion off the top of its GDP which is currently contracting at a rate of more than
17% per year. Put that way, it doesn't sound too hopeful, does it? Mind you, the EU is doing its
bit to help by insisting on reforms which have doubled the price of gas for household use, even
as the currency has shrunk to about a third of its previous value.
Good article. It is peculiar how the 17.6% year on year GDP drop in Ukraine is mentioned
as a ho-hum statistic without any context. The US GDP contracted 25% during the Great Depression.
In any given year of that depression it did not drop almost 18%. Also, in the case of Ukraine,
it has already underwent a Great Depression worse than the original during the 1990s and has
*not* fully recovered. So we are looking at an epic economic contraction since 1990. This is
a big story and yet there is no spotlight on it whatsoever. Instead we have those retarded "forecasts"
from Moody's, the World Bank, the IMF, and other western agencies which are pure political fluff.
On another forum a well informed poster was confused by what year on year meant. As you correctly
note in your article it is basically a measure of the relative change in the GDP after one year.
The only way Ukraine's GDP could hit those western "forecasts" in 2015 would be if it had a
surge of growth in the second half of the year. This ain't gonna happen. In fact the decline
will continue into the second quarter and the rate of decline will decline in the second half
due to the fact that it is compared to the second half of 2014 which was already in full bore
recession. The first quarter of 2015 dropped almost 7% compared to the fourth quarter of 2014.
I expect there to be quarter to quarter drops in Ukraine's GDP during all of 2015. This translates
into a GDP drop in 2015 of between 20% and 30% depending on how rapidly the collapse slows later
this year.
As for the EU and its racist, delusional hate aimed at Russia. It will reap what it has sown.
For some reason some analysts think that if Iran is allowed to ship gas to the EU this will
undermine Russia. They are missing the mark. Russia will be happy to have the EU supplied with
its gas from the Middle East. Everyone with a clue will see the implications. Russia's own production
will decline in the long run as is inevitable and Russia has now the access to the huge Chinese
market at a reasonable price. The stooges in Brussels will be remembering the good old days
of Russian supply.
"Europe made it clear recently that admission to the European Union is
not in the cards for Ukraine, which is reassuring, in a way, because it
means at least a few people in Europe are still capable of thinking
beyond the weekend. Ukraine's economy is being preserved on life support
to save the dirty, messy embarrassment of a public default, because the
west is entirely and totally to blame for Ukraine's economic disaster.
The west hand-picked the government, and then encouraged it to re-take
its eastern regions by military force. Ukraine faces a future in which
it will be broke and friendless, drifting aimlessly at the whim of
whoever will lend it money. And when you think about it, the Maidanite
zealots and the fascist strutters are a minority, coming mostly from the
west of Ukraine and Kiev. That still leaves a lot – millions – of
Ukrainians who did nothing to bring this calamity upon themselves, but
who will nonetheless suffer the consequences of their leaders' idiocy
and greed and the meddling of western interventionists who will accept
ruining Ukraine so Russia can't have it if they cannot win it."
Beautiful conclusion! Mark, this is your best conclusion yet, and one
of the best articles. Also, if you want even more "comedy" – remember
that US is a control freak, meaning that one can veto IMF and WB
decisions if they can get 15%, which is the stake that US holds. The SCO
Coalition and its allies are at 16%. So the IMF and WB funds to Ukraine
can be blocked by the SCO.
The EU funds are going to be blocked by the PIGS' countries and the
US funds are tied in the Healthcare and Immigration fight, along with
that of the TPP. The only organization that can help Ukraine financially
is the SCO, where Russia is a de facto veto wielding nation. As they say
in Ukraine to the demonstrators of Maidan: heroyam slava, no zachem
slave takoi bolshoi her ot maidantsev?
Just days after George Soros warned that World War 3 was imminent unless Washington backed down
to China on IMF currency basket inclusion, the hacker collective CyberBerkut has exposed the
billionaire as the real puppet-master behind the scenes in Ukraine. In 3 stunning documents, allegedly
hacked from email correspondence between the hedge fund manager and Ukraine President Poroshenko,
Soros lays out "A short and medium term comprehensive strategy for the new Ukraine,"
expresses his confidence that the US should provide Ukraine with lethal military assistance,
"with same level of sophistication in defense weapons to match the level of opposing force," and
finally explained Poroshenko's "first priority must be to regain control of financial markets,"
which he assures the President could be helped by The Fed adding "I am ready to call
Jack Lew of the US Treasury to sound him out about the swap agreement."
The hacking
group CyberBerkut claims it has penetrated Ukraine's presidential administration website and obtained
correspondence between Soros and Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko. It has subsequently posted
all the intercepted pdfs on line at the following location.
More details as RT earlier reported:
According to the leaked documents, Soros supports Barack Obama's stance on Ukraine, but believes
that the US should do even more.
He is confident that the US should provide Ukraine with lethal military assistance, "with
same level of sophistication in defense weapons to match the level of opposing force."
"In poker terms, the US will 'meet, but not raise," the 84-year-old businessman
explained, supposedly signing one of the letters
as "a self-appointed advocate of the new Ukraine."
The Western backers want Kiev to "restore the fighting capacity of Ukraine without violating
the Minsk agreement," Soros wrote.
Among other things, the leaked documents claim that the Ukrainian authorities were also asked
to "restore some semblance of currency stability and functioning banking system"
and "maintain unity among the various branches of government" in order to receive assistance
from foreign allies.
Soros believes that it's up to the EU to support Kiev with financial aid, stressing that
"Europe must reach a new framework agreement that will allow the European Commission to allocate
up to $1 billion annually to Ukraine."
As for the current state of economy, the billionaire wrote that former Chilean finance minister,
Andres Velasco, after visiting Ukraine on his request, returned with "a dire view of financial
situation."
"The new Ukraine is literally on the verge of collapse" due to the national
bank's lack of hard currency reserves, Soros warned Poroshenko.
The correspondence shows that the billionaire has been in constant touch with the authorities
in Kiev and consulting them.
Digging into the details of the documents, we find one intriguing snippet:
As you know, I asked Andrés Velasco, a prominent economist who was Chile's very successful
minister of finance from 2006-2010 to visit Kyiv where he met the Prime Minister; the President
was in Warsaw at the time. Velasco came back with a dire view of the financial situation. The
National Bank of Ukraine has practically no hard currency reserves. That means that
the hryvnia has no anchor. If a panic occurred and the currency collapsed as it did
in Russia, the National Bank could not stabilize the exchange rate even if only temporarily
as Russia did by injecting $90 billion.
Your first priority must be to regain control over the financial markets-bank deposits
and exchange rates. Unless you do, you will have no way to embark on deeper reforms.
I believe the situation could be stabilized by getting the European Council to make a commitment
in principle that they will pull together the new $15 billion package that the IMF requires
in order to release the next tranche of its original package at the end of January 2015.
Based on that commitment the Federal Reserve could be asked to extend a $15 billion three months
swap arrangement with the National Bank of Ukraine. That would reassure the markets and avoid
a panic.
... ... ...
I am ready to call Jack Lew of the US Treasury
to sound him out about the swap agreement.
One wonders what other matters of national importance involve George Soros getting on the line
with the US Treasury Secretary to arrange virtually unlimited funds courtesy of the US Federal Reserve
just to promote one person's ulterior agenda?
And just like that, conspiracy Theory becomes Conspiracy Fact once again.
The full documents are below:
Ironically, the first document laying out the "short and medium-term comprehensive strategy for
new Ukraine" and signed by George Soros, "a self-appointed advocate of the New Ukraine", was ironically
created by
Tamiko Bolton,
the 40 year old who became Soros' third wife several years ago.
The next letter, one directly sent by Soros to Ukraine's president Poroshenko and prime minister
Yatseniuk, comes courtesy of a pdf created by Douglas York, Soros' personal assistant.
Finally, a letter (authored by Yasin Yaqubie of the International Crisis Group based on its pdf
metadata properties), which lobbies the US "to do more."
To sum up: Soros is basically lobbying on behalf
of Ukraine, pushing for cash and guns, to oppose Putin in every way possible.
If genuine, and based on their meta data, they appear to be just that, these lettes show how
Soros is trying to weasel around the Minsk agreements (for instance, how to train Ukrainian soldiers
without having a visible NATO presence in Ukraine). The documents link up Nuland with Soros, and
clears up who is truly pulling the strings of the US State Department.
Finally, while the documents don't mention what Soros has in store for Ukraine, one can use their
imagination.
If you want to know WHO the banksters are, read about the battle of Waterloo, learn about the
City of London, and the history of the British Central Bank. Soros is NOTHING compared to
the real controllers.
Sashko89
I think the reference was to the house of Rothschilds..
Ward cleaver
Water boy ? He's first team bro, why r u covering for him?
Latina Lover
Please Google the Battle of Waterloo. The amount of money made in 1815 by the Banksters
is well in excess of Soros fortune in today's depreciated Fed Notes. Soros is a very
powerful man, a multi billionaire, but his resources are dwarfed by the real money masters.
Notice when Khodorkovsky was imprisoned, we found out who REALLY owned his supposed assets.
Washington runs things in Ukraine. It newest colony. Kiev's illegitimate puppet government serves
its interests. Ruthlessly exploiting its people in the process. America wants unchallenged control over Ukraine's entire land mass. As a dagger pointed at Russia's
heart.
Ukraine is a pretext. Regime change in Russia the objective. Gaining another US colony. Eliminating
a major rival. Stealing its vast resources. Exploiting its people. Turning them into serfs. Isolating China.
Repeating the process against Beijing. Transforming nations into a ruler/serf societies. More unfit to live in than ever. Coups, assassinations,
false flags and permanent wars its tactics of choice.
No nation in world history reflects more pure evil than America. Wrapped in the American flag.
People manipulated to believe destructive US policies benefit them. Governments lie about everything. Media scoundrels repeat Big Lies like gospel. No one can possibly
understand world events by watching mainstream television. BBC is as bad as Fox News. Owned and operated by Britain's government. Its propaganda bullhorn. So-called US public radio and broadcasting are government and corporate controlled. Qatar's despotic
monarchy runs Al Jazeera. The New York Times and other major publications are instruments of state propaganda.
Try finding a single MSM report explaining Ukraine's coup. Instituted by Washington. Ousting a
democratic government. Replacing it with illegitimate fascist thugs. Systematically destroying human and civil rights.
Eliminating opposition elements. Prohibiting a free press. Instituting total control over all information disseminated. Attacking independent journalists. Shutting down Russian language print and electronic media.
Calling them "security threats." In bed with Western financial interests. At the expense of their own people. At war with them
in Donbas. Dirty war. Without mercy. Using chemical and other illegal weapons. Conflict continues daily despite illegitimate/oligarch president Petro Poroshenko's "regime of
silence." More on this below.
On January 12, he lied. Saying war in Donbas will be over in two weeks. Ending it requires "simply
fulfill(ing) the Minsk agreements signed in September." Like Hitler declaring peace in Europe before launching WW II.
Fact check
Last April, Washington, EU nations, Russia and Ukraine agreed to end violence. Deescalate tensions.
Restore peace and stability. Kiev violated the four-party agreement straightaway. Escalated war. Blamed it irresponsibly on
Donbas freedom fighters.
On September 5, Kiev agreed to Minsk protocol provisions. Plus additional ones in a follow-up
September 19 memorandum. Calling for ending hostilities. Banning all offensive operations. Withdrawing Kiev troops and
foreign mercenaries from conflict areas. Dialoguing for peace, security and stability.
Fighting never stopped. Shelling continues. Including throughout the holiday period. Into January. Kiev bears full responsibility for naked aggression. Since last April. With Washington's full
support and encouragement. Kiev agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on. According to Donetsk People's Republic
(DRP) deputy legislative speaker Denis Pushlin:
Poroshenko's posturing "is pure bluff…He controls nothing in Donbas. Ukraine does not fulfill
the Minsk agreements, and this is a fact." "What we are talking about? We see that they are shelling our settlements. Commanders of Ukrainian
battalions openly say they are not obeying Poroshenko's orders."
"How can he fulfill the Minsk agreements then? How can he be so definite about these two weeks?"
He's a serial liar. Notoriously saying one thing. Doing another. Taking orders from Washington. Wanting Donbas democracy entirely crushed. Fascist rule replacing it. What area freedom fighters
won't tolerate. Nor should anyone. On Monday, the Kiev Post headlined "Ukraine seals off roads to Donbas as fighting escalates."
DPR leader Oleksandr Zakharchenko was quoted saying: "Honestly speaking I'm tired of all these negotiations. People who don't keep their words…well,
I don't know." ... "We are ready for any talks. But in case it would be impossible to solve the conflict peacefully,
we are ready to fight."
Kiev intends greater conflict ahead. Stop NATO reported increased Ukraine military spending. During economic crisis conditions. Potential bankruptcy. Ukraine unable to operate without significant
financial aid. It plans increasing its armed forces this year. To 250,000. "(A)s well as six mechanized brigades,
a mountain infantry regiment, three artillery brigades and two army brigades," said Stop NATO. Why when Ukraine's only enemies are ones it invents. Its own Donbas citizens.
Russia despite Moscow's all-out efforts for responsible dialogue. Diplomacy. Peaceful conflict
resolution. Strict observance of international law. Washington systematically spurns it. So does Ukraine. Stop NATO's Rick Rozoff expressed justifiable
concern. Something has to give. East/West confrontation assures trouble. Possible "nuclear war," he warned. On Monday, the reliable Vineyard of the Saker web site headlined "Je suis Ukraine. I fight terror.
Yats (Yatsenyuk) is Charlie." Ukraine's "junta…dramatically stepped up shelling of Novorossiya (its Donetsk and Lugansk territories). "(T)ypical terror strikes…randomly aimed at the civilian sectors…(Most) worrisome…is confirmation
by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov that (Moscow has) intelligence showing (Kiev plans) a full scale
assault…"
On the one hand, extending peace overtures. On the other, intending escalated conflict. Blaming
its aggression on Donbas victims. US and rogue NATO partners echo its Big Lies. Media scoundrels repeat them. When anything about
Ukraine is reported.
Propaganda substitutes for hard truths. Readers and viewers are systematically lied to. MSM scoundrels are a machine for the manufacture of Big Lies. It bears repeating. Ignore them.
Nothing they report should be believed. Voice of Sevastopol (VoS) is a reliable source of Ukrainian news and information. Kiev's "so-called
silent mode (was) accompanied by heavy artillery shelling of settlements of Donbas and active hostilities,"
it reported. Kiev junta attacks continue. Much like summer fighting. Ignored by media scoundrels. Kiev murdering
civilians doesn't matter. Or destroying their homes and other property. Or causing hundreds of thousands to flee for their
lives.Seeking safe havens. Many finding them in Russia. An oasis of stability amidst neighboring hostility.
One of last year's key Maidan demands was ending corruption. Today it's greatly increased, said
VoS. "Almost 80% of Ukrainians (say) over the last year…corruption became more spacious."
On Monday, German, French, Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers met in Berlin. The so-called
Normandy Quartet. Established last June. In Normandy, France. Seeking solutions to Ukrainian crisis conditions. Monday's talks resolved nothing. Nor will future ones. Kiev deplores peace. Washington won't tolerate
it. Conflict wasn't initiated to resolve things diplomatically. Fascist regimes don't operate this
way.
Sergey Lavrov said "the political process can be successful only when you start a direct dialogue,
in this case between the representatives of the Ukrainian government and the proclaimed DPR and LPR,
and they should feel fully involved in the political process as equal partners." Nothing remotely close to this exists. Nor will it ahead. Washington rules apply. Kiev intends crushing Donbas resistance. Wants despotism replacing democracy. Wants human and
civil rights eliminated altogether.
Its dirty war without end continues. Ceasefire is pure fantasy. None whatever exists. Nor will
Kiev tolerate one. Short of unconditional surrender. What Donbas freedom fighters won't ever agree to. Nor should
they. Freedom is too precious to sacrifice. Kiev blocked seven entry corridors to Donbas. A DPR Foreign Ministry statement accused it of violating
fundamental free movement rights. "Additional restrictions…will only exacerbate the catastrophic humanitarian situation that our
people have faced," it said.
Kiev wants Donbas residents isolated. Starved to death. Total MSM silence on what demands headlines. Since April, Kiev committed continued high crimes against peace. They remain ongoing daily. Vauro Senesi is an Italian journalist. On January 1, he headlined "Non č possibile non scorgere
un disegno pianificato di pulizia etnica." Senesi toured Lugansk. Impossible not to see ongoing ethnic cleansing, he said. Kiev-instituted
slow-motion genocide. Targeting defenseless civilians. "(T)he local population, is being, on a daily basis, killed by battalions of the extreme right
in the service of the puppet state of Kiev," said Senesi. "All this in the most absolute silence of the Italian (and other Western) media." "(F)ollowing the United States in this mad rush to the abyss against Russia." Donbas conditions are deplorable. A shell-caused breach in one apartment building reflects similar
damage throughout the area. It's "so big you can see the other side of the building. (A) wall burned by fire…A mother lived
there with her three kids." "There's nothing left of her or her children. The explosion blew everything to bits." "Grief, pain, fear – maybe all her emotions have been burned, reduced into rubble like the city
she continues to live in."
Pre-war, the area had 25,000 residents. Less than 8,000 remain. Most others fled to Russia. Where
else could they be safe? "There is no electricity, no running water. The power plants, the water treatment plants, all
destroyed by the bombardment," said Senisi. Artillery fire is constant. Senesi quoted a young man named Roman. Fighting for Donbas freedom. Unsure how much longer war will last. "We want peace," he said. "(B)ut on our bit of land." "Becoming part of Ukraine again is no longer a possibility. The Army of Ukraine has fired on its
own people." "There's nothing for us but to resist to the end. Against the Nazis" representing Kiev. "They have swastikas on their uniforms. How is it possible that Europe supports them?" And America. "No Pasaran," said Roman! With raised fist. The salute of Spanish Civil War republicans. Committed
to continue fighting.
Senisi went from Lugansk to Stakanov, Pervomaisk and other areas. Everywhere he went he saw "schools,
hospitals, factories, power plants, water pumping stations, all destroyed." "(S)corched earth," he said. Wanting an entire population eliminated. By slaughter or ethnic cleansing. Few people remain in Novosveltovka, he said. An old man took refuge in a basement. For days in the dark without food or water. Hungry dogs are dangerous. They attack people like
beasts. Ukraine is Obama's war. LIke ongoing Afghan conflict without end. Iraq war III.
Libya. Syria. Yemen. Somalia. Partnered with Israel against Palestine. Homeland wars against Blacks,
Muslims and other targeted Americans. Wars without mercy. Permanent ones. Continued mass slaughter and destruction. It bears repeating. No nation in world history reflects more pure evil than America. No time more
perilous than now. More urgent than ever for resistance. World peace hangs in the balance.
Stephen Lendman was born in 1934 in Boston, MA, raised in a modest middle income family, attended
public schools, received a Harvard BA in 1956 and a Wharton MBA in 1960. After six years as a marketing
research analyst, Lendman became part of a new small family business in 1967, remaining there until
retiring in 1999.
Since then, he has devoted his time to progressive causes, extensive reading, and since summer 2005
writing on vital world and national topics, including war and peace, American imperialism, corporate
dominance, political persecutions, and a range of other social, economic and political issues.
Ukraine's collapse since the February 2014 coup has become an umbrella for grabitization. Collateral
damage in this free-for-all has been labor. Many workers are simply not getting paid, and what actually
is being paid is often illegally low. Employers are taking whatever money is in their business
accounts and squirreling it away – preferably abroad, or at least in foreign currency.
Wage arrears are getting worse, because as Ukraine approaches the eve of defaulting on its €10+
billion London debt, kleptocrats and business owners are jumping ship. They see that foreign lending
has dried up and the exchange rate will plunge further. The Rada's announcement last week that it
shifted €8 billion from debt service to spend on a new military attack on the country's eastern
export region was the last straw for foreign creditors and even for the IMF. Its loans helped support
the hryvnia's exchange rate long enough for bankers, businessmen and others to take whatever money
they have and as many euros or dollars as they can before the imminent collapse in June or July.
In this pre-bankruptcy situation, emptying out the store means not paying workers or other bills.
Wage arrears are reported to have reached 2 billion hryvnia, owed to over half a million workers.
This has led the Federation of Trade Unions of Ukraine to picket against the Cabinet of Ministers
on Wednesday (May 27). More demonstrations are scheduled for the next two Wednesdays, June 3 and
10. According to union federation Deputy Head Serhiy Kondratiuk, "the current subsistence wage of
UAH 1,218 is 60% less than the level set in Ukrainian law, which is confirmed by the calculations
if the Social Policy Ministry. … the subsistence wage in the country should exceed UAH 3,500 a month,
but the government refuses to hold social dialog to revise standards." [1]
The scenario that is threatened
Emptying out Ukrainian business bank accounts will leave empty shells. With Ukraine's economy
broken, the only buyers with serious money are European and American. Selling to foreigners is thus
the only way for managers and owners to get a meaningful return – paid in foreign currency safely
in offshore accounts, outside of future Ukrainian clawback fines. Privatization and capital
flight go together.
So does short-changing labor. The new buyers will reorganize the assets they buy, declare the
old firms bankrupt and erase their wage arrears, along with any other bills that are owed. The
restructured companies will claim that bankruptcy has wiped out whatever the former firms (or public
enterprises) owed to workers. It is much like what corporate raiders do in the United States to
wipe out pension obligations and other debts. They will claim to have to "saved" Ukrainian economy
and "made it competitive."
Operation Vulture
The Pinochet coup in Chile was a dress rehearsal for all this. The U.S.-backed military
junta targeted labor leaders, journalists, and potential political leaders, as well as university
professors (closing every economics department in Chile except for the Chicago "free market"-based
Catholic University). You cannot have a "free market" Chicago-style, after all, without taking such
totalitarian steps.
U.S. strategists like to name such ploys after predatory birds: Operation Phoenix in Vietnam,
and Operation Condor in Latin America that targeted "lefties," intellectuals and others. A similar
program is underway against Ukraine's Russian speakers. I don't know the code word being used, so
let's call it Operation Vulture.
For labor leaders, the problem is not only to collect back wages, but to survive with a future
living wage. If they refrain from protesting, they simply won't get paid. This is why they are organizing
a growing neo-Maidan protest explicitly on behalf of wage earners – so that the junta's Right Sector
snipers cannot accuse the demonstrators of being pro-Russian. The unions have protected themselves
by seeking support from the UN's International Labour Organization (ILO), and from the International
Trade Union Confederation in Brussels.
The most effective tactic to tackle the corruption that is permitting the non-payment of wages
and pensions is to focus on the present regime's foreign support, especially from the IMF and EU.
Using labor's grievances as an umbrella to demand related reforms could include warnings that any
sale of Ukrainian land, raw materials, public utilities or other assets to foreign buyers can be
reversed by future, less corrupt governments.
In labor's favor is the fact that the IMF has violating its Articles of Agreement by lending
for military purposes. As soon as its last loan was disbursed, Poroshenko announced that he was
stepping up his war against the East. This brings the IMF loan close to being what legal theorists
call an Odious Debt: debts to a junta taking power and looting the government's Treasury and other
assets in the public domain, leaving future governments to pay off what has been stolen.
Labor's fight for a living wage is not only for retroactive shortfalls, but to put in place a
recovery plan to protect against the economy being treated like Greece or Latvia, neoliberal style.
U.S. strategists have been discussing whether they could dismiss the $3 billion that Ukraine owes
Russia this Decemb er as an "odious debt"; or, perhaps, classify it as "foreign aid" and hence not
collectible in practice. Ironic as it may seem, the Peterson Institute of International Economics,
George Soros and other Cold Warriors have provided future Ukrainian governments with a repertory
of legal reasons to reconstitute their economy foreign-debt free – leaving the government able to
pay wage and pension arrears.
The alternative is for international creditors to win the case for putting foreign bondholders,
the IMF and European Union first, and sovereign rights to prevent self-destruction second.
"Trade unions to picket government weekly from May 27, 2015,"
Interfax.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/267940.html
↑
вот так on May 28, 2015 · at 6:03 pm UTC
Informative report.
This news seems to point to the direction the junta will take, IE: perhaps a selective default
on some debt, but not all of it.
- The Ukrainian parliament approved the bill, which could affect repayment of the country's
$3-billion debt to Russia on May 19.
- Russian President Vladimir Putin said earlier the bill de facto was an announcement of a default,
casting a negative light on the professionalism of Ukraine's leadership.
- Moreover, Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said that Moscow would turn to an international
court if the Ukrainian president signed a moratorium on the repayment of foreign debt.
- Ukraine's total debt is estimated at about $50 billion, of which $30 billion are external
and $17 billion internal debts, according to Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk.
- Yatsenyuk said that the suspension of payments could only relate to private loans, but Ukraine
considered its $3-billion debt to Russia also as a private one, a position Moscow totally disagreed
with.
- Kiev has received several aid packages from international financial institutions, including
the IMF, which has pledged to transfer $17.5 billion to the country over the next four years,
with the first $5-billion installment being received.
alan on May 28, 2015 · at 6:35 pm UTC
Technically, there is no such thing as "selective" default. Once you default on one, the
others will treat it as the next to be defaulted. It is against existing common rules for default
anyways. That is to say, a country cannot say: Oh, I will just default against Russia (or USA,
or China) for example.
Kat Kan on May 28, 2015 · at 9:03 pm UTC
Ukraine owes only about $50 billion.
All those bankrupt companies with "ancient non-European-standard" plant are worth nothing, so
an be bought cheaply. But because the plant is "ancient" it can't be old off as they do in normal
asset stripping. There's no assets there to strip, except maybe as scrap metal, and there's
not a big price for that anywhere, to be further lowered by dumping 100 billion tonnes of the
stuff onto the market. So that is out.
The usual way to make money on such purchases is sell off the equipment (there isn't any) then
bring in a bit of new stuff (costs money) then sell the SHARES on a bubble basis, every early
purchaser in it ONLY to sell off, in the latest little Ponzi. Each new buyer inflates the values
and cuts costs by firing more workers, meanwhile borrowing a fortune for "development" (against
the supposed value) most of which goes to directors' consultancy companies. Eventually it goes
broke, and gets bought out in a new round of Ponzi.
Except this being Ukraine, nobody will believe it will make a profit; they've heard too much
about how hopeless the whole place is. Constant revolt and revolution and buildings being burned
down.
Meanwhile the Government has to pay pensions and unemployment benefits to 80% of the nation.
But they have no tax income to pay from, as the new "businesses" are not earning anything, and
in any case do transfer pricing and bank offshore. They can't borrow from IMF, as they can't
do any more austerity. They can't increase taxes or reduce wages if already nobody is working.
They can't cut pensions and benefits when already half their population is being fed by international
aid agencies…. or fleeing across the borders at 10,000 a day.
The would-be buyers can't make a profit. And they can't collect. So maybe they'd be overjoyed
to sell off their debt at, say, 50% which is only $25 billion. Okay, $35.
That is easily put together by a couple of friendly nations which are prepared to wait a few
years to get paid, and extend a small line of credit to buy imported raw goods for the few industries
that need that. . For the rest, the country could print its own money, as it will only be used
and spent internally, so no need for it to be "borrowed" from someone else.
Of course these benefactors would want a sensible government, so that is bye-bye to the current
lot. Seeing them jailed might make the population happy to accept the new ones, whoever they
are (especially if they come armed with loaves of bread).
Rebuild one "BRIC" at a time?
[May 28, 2015] Ukraine financial catastrophe of 2014 2015
Notable quotes:
"... According to UN standards a person lives below the poverty line, if one spends life and food less than 5 USD a day, or less than $150 a month . The subsistence minimum in Ukraine today is defined in 1176 UAH, i.e. about 50 dollars a month - less than two dollars a day. ..."
"... So the Ukrainians in poverty are already close to residents of African countries, which spend an average of 1.25 per day US dollars, was heard on "Radio Liberty". ..."
"... "What is subsistence? It's not just food, it and public transportation, and household services, and utilities, and clothing. Overlooked in the subsistence minimum medical services and education. If we analyze these factors, we can understand that Ukrainians are below the threshold of absolute poverty," ..."
"... Today more than 80% of Ukrainians live below the poverty line, the UN data show. In 2012, according to the world organization, only 15% of Ukrainian citizens existed on 5 dollars a day. ..."
According to UN standards a person lives below the poverty line, if one spends life and food
less than 5 USD a day, or less than $150 a month . The subsistence minimum in Ukraine today is defined
in 1176 UAH, i.e. about 50 dollars a month - less than two dollars a day.
So the Ukrainians in poverty are already close to residents of African countries, which spend
an average of 1.25 per day US dollars, was heard on "Radio Liberty".
"What is subsistence? It's not just food, it and public transportation, and household services,
and utilities, and clothing. Overlooked in the subsistence minimum medical services and education.
If we analyze these factors, we can understand that Ukrainians are below the threshold of absolute
poverty," stressed Shipko.
According to the Deputy, the minimum wage in Ukraine at the current exchange rate of the national
Bank should be approximately 3750 UAH - the only way the Ukrainians will be able at least get requred
$5 a day.
Today more than 80% of Ukrainians live below the poverty line, the UN data show. In 2012,
according to the world organization, only 15% of Ukrainian citizens existed on 5 dollars a day.
Ukrainian women do not want to bear children through insecurity and inability to pay for the hospital
and diaper.
The West scored major geopolitical victory against Russia: As Paul said (see below): "My limited
knowledge of the situation inside the Ukraine is that a lot of Ukrainians do blame Russia. Why not?
That is what the TV says. It is very hard to get someone to admit he made a mistake."
Poor Ukrainian citizen. Poor Ukrainian pensioners existing on a $1 a day or less (with exchange
rate around 26.5 hrivna per dollar, pension around 900 hrivna is around $1 per day. Some pensioners
get less then that ( miserable 1500 hrivna per month considered to be "decent" pension and monthly salary
4000 hrivna is a "good" salary by Ukrainian standards).
The last thing EU wants is an additional stream of refugees from Ukraine escaping miserable salaries
and lack of decently paying jobs and pressure of Ukrainian migrant workers on unqualified job market
positions.... So far the main hit for this was not in Western but in Russian job market, but that may
change. At the same time making the Ukraine enemy of Russia is a definitive geopolitical victory, achieved
with relatively modest financial infusions (USA estimate is 5 billions, the EU is probably a half of
that) and indirect support of Western Ukrainian nationalists.
One year ago there was a hope the Donetsk problem will be solved. Now in 2016 this civil war entered
the third year -- Kiev government can't squash unrecognized Donetsk Republic with military force and
it does not want to switch to federal state to accommodate their pretty modest demands: initially use
of Russian language and reverse of "creeping cultural colonization" of this region by Western Ukraine.
Initially the official language question was the one of the most important and Kiev Provisional government
rejected Canadian variant of using the same language as its powerful, dominant neighbor and unleashed
a civil war (with full blessing of the USA, which pursue "divide and conquer strategy in this region
from the moment of dissolution of the USSR). Now after so much bloodshed the positions are hardened...
Imagine that the Quebec nationalists came to power in Canada by French supported and financed coup,
and instantly outlawed the English language for official usage and in schools and universities.
Notable quotes:
"... If you made a list of perhaps ten goals that powerful Western groups may have had in this Ukrainian project, how many have been achieved? ..."
"... That has surely been largely achieved. ..."
"... That has largely happened, as the TV says Russia stole the Crimea and is sending terrorists and bandits into the country. Look at all the banditry in the LPR. ..."
"... Finally, the bankruptcy and transfer of the country from Ukrainian oligarchs to Western corporations is about to begin. ..."
"... They surely screwed things up in the Ukraine over the last ten years. ..."
"... I'm afraid the West would like to start wars in multiple fronts at the same time making it very hard for Russia to respond. ..."
"... If the West could pull all this through at the same time Russia would be forced to either capitulate on most fronts or start a major war. Russia could not answer to these threats with conventional ways so the options for Russia would be to use nuclear weapons or accept a major geopolitical defeat. ..."
"... Georgia and Azerbaijan are not likely to cooperate, Ukraine's offensive capability is minimal, the Americans are not any more eager to attack Syria than they were two years ago, and the Islamist threat to Central Asia is presently contained. ..."
"... It has without doubt caused problems and will affect some Russian military effectiveness in the short term, but no. For example, though some products were actually made in the Ukraine, many of those businesses contracted out the production of components to Russia. ..."
"... True, but again a very short term achievement. ..."
"... NATO is not going to do anything apart from make as much noise and fearmaking as possible ..."
"... The American military industrial complex has screwed itself in a bid to make more money! Their space programs are not exactly brilliant either. ..."
"... [The transfer of property to Western corporations is] Almost inevitable, but there are several factors at play here. Western investors will have to deliver rather than just asset strip and run; domestic political repercussions will be huge at least in the medium to long term. ..."
"... Either way it is the West to whom the Ukrainian citizen will pay tribute, for a long long long time. ..."
"... All Russia needs to do is be fair and reasonable and step in at the right moment. ..."
"... As to Moscow screwing up the Ukraine over the last ten years, I think that may be a bit harsh. Sometimes the best option is to keep your hand out of the viper's nest and do nothing as much as possible, only intervening when critical. ..."
"... To be honest, Western foreign policy has rarely been panicked, but is always exploitative. If the opportunity arises, it will jump in having prepared the PPNN to scream that something must be done. ..."
"... No panic here. Just my opinion that the Kremlin needs to study how the ex-Soviet sphere has played out and deal with things like NGOs and educational, cultural, and media matters. ..."
"... As for my view that NATO wants to stress Russia, well, I suppose it comes down to your Weltanschauung. I think the US has to take Russia down to some degree, even if it is just smashing Syria. You aren't a superpower if someone can get away with things like grabbing the Crimea without paying a cost. Plus, Russia provides China with protection till China can develop a decent military. So the US has a limited amount of time before locking things up. Call it the Wolfowitz Doctrine if that is your preferred way of looking at it. ..."
"... If I am right that the US has to tie Russia up, the logical way is to create as many problems on the periphery as possible. ..."
"... I wouldn't take the problems with certain fighters to mean the US hasn't got great technology in its black projects. ..."
"... As for Ukrainians losing their anti-Russian religion, well, perhaps. But as long as Russia occupies the Crimea, that could take a long time. My bet is the anti-Russian sentiment will last a lot longer than the Ukraine does. ..."
"... Regardless of the think tanks, one thing the US can no longer ignore is their pocket. That's where to hit them. Even Osama Bin Laden understood this and was his primary goal to cause the US to over-extend itself politically & financially. ..."
"... The US want to do more but it can't do it the old expensive way – it has less means but it wants to achieve more. Something has to give. The US has barely started addressing the problem. That's even before we consider the move of some oil trading out of the US dollar. ..."
"... And what of the growing number of home grown jihadists that all NATO's wars have created? For all their support by western foreign policy to undermine Russia, it's a monster that will bite anyone and is increasingly looking at the West. As others have written before me, does the West want a reliable partner in Russia whilst it is under threat of jihadism or another big problem on their plate they can't quite manage? ..."
"... Western corporations will only plunder the country if they can get a return on their investment, and except in the case of what they can strip from it – like the black earth – and take away, that does not seem very likely to me. However, I would agree, and have done since some time ago, that the west's biggest success was turning Ukraine and Russia into enemies. ..."
"... NATO has not quite given up trying to turn Ukraine into a prosperous western democracy within its own orbit, but the enormity of the task and the hidden factors that make it so is beginning to dawn and enthusiasm in Europe is well on the wane, remaining strong only in Washington which does not have to do much of anything but manage. ..."
"... I think it is clear to Brussels and Washington that Moscow will see Ukraine destroyed and a failed state before it will allow it to be a NATO satellite snuggled up against its southwestern borders. ..."
"... NATO is running a steady propaganda campaign about Russian aggression, but I don't know how well that is actually selling outside Galicia, while it must be clear to a lot of Ukrainians what a failure the promise of western largesse was. ..."
"... My limited knowledge of the situation inside the Ukraine is that a lot of Ukrainians do blame Russia. Why not? That is what the TV says. It is very hard to get someone to admit he made a mistake. ..."
"... My main point in rubbing the west's nose around in it is not that they have conclusively lost, because it is indeed early days to make such a judgement, but that it has not won easily as it bragged it would do. ..."
"... The west does a poor job of managing expectations generally, and it has done abysmally this time around. It has no intention of curbing oligarchs in Ukraine and little interest beyond lip service in genuine reform in Ukraine. For their part, Europe should proceed cautiously with plans to integrate Ukraine more closely, because it is plain that the interest of Ukraine's oligarchs in such a course is to broaden their opportunities for stealing and increasing their wealth. ..."
"... There are plenty of opportunities for the west to steal Ukraine blind, but few that involve a product or entity that the west can buy, remove and sell somewhere else. ..."
"... The Trade Union Building on maidan square was found to be full of the burned remains of Berkut prisoners chained to the batteries and pipes after right sector set the building on fire. The Berkut were burned alive, left to their fate in the very two floors that right sector called their own during the maidan debacle. ..."
"... The Trade Union Building in Odessa also had people burned alive, the total death toll there was almost 300. The sub basement was a charnel house of corpses including women and children ..."
"... Over 200 citizens were killed in Mariupol the following weekend, shot down or burned to death in Militsiya HQ. In this incident at least a few of the perpetrators were destroyed in an ambush by Opolchensya as Opelchensya were leaving the city, ordered out as they were too few to defend the berg. ..."
"... To expand on the documentations a tiny bit, do you think all those artillerists who when captured to a man scream that they did not know they were bombarding and killing thousands of our civilians are believed? Not hardly. They knowingly committed crimes and they will pay for their crimes. ..."
"... Auslander is living in a denial. The perps of these crimes will never face any punishment because there is nobody to carry out such punishments. Novorossiya is a tiny portion of Ukraine and the rest is ruled by the Kiev thugs. Novorossiya can never reach the criminals there. ..."
"... Well, in their lifetime anyway. Russia will not invade and Novorossiya is currently limited to defending their land against Kiev attacks unable to even liberate Sloviasnk and Mariupol. And it would be against the nature of Russia (or NAF) to send partizans to kill the perps in Kiev or Lvov. Russians simply do not behave that way nowadays. ..."
"... I wonder if he has any substantiation for those numbers. Some sources have always said that hundreds more died in the Trade Unions building in Odessa than were ever officially acknowledged, but I don't recall hearing about anyone dying in the Trade Unions building on Maidan, and I thought the death toll in Mariupol was just a few police (not to make it sound like that's nothing) rather than hundreds. And I follow the situation in Ukraine fairly closely – this would not even register on those who get all their news from CNN. ..."
"... Actually it was my net-acquaintances from Serbia and Bulgaria who were arguing with each other who is more deserving the title of "niggers of Europe". Serbian guy was winning, using the ultimate proof that Tupak is alive in Serbia ..."
"... The election of Poland's new president spells big problems for Ukraine. The issue is "de-heroization" of OUN-UPA militants whom Ukraine just recently granted the status of the liberators of Europe from fascism. But unlike Komorowski, who forgave the Ukrainian heroes the Volhyn Massacre in which the Banderites slaughtered over 200 thousand Poles, the conservative Duda does not intend to sacrifice his principles. ..."
"... This is so. A state must have myth and Ukraine has already rejected the Soviet myth. Junk the Bandera myth as well, and what is left? 'Slava Ukraini' hasn't been brilliantly effective in motivating Ukrainians to fight, but would they have done better with a slogan like 'for the preservation of ill-gotten capital!'? ..."
The premise that the West must be losing is a bit simplistic. If you made a list of perhaps
ten goals that powerful Western groups may have had in this Ukrainian project, how many have been
achieved?
For example, one goal was to destroy businesses (and the military-industrial complex) that
were oriented towards Russia. That has surely been largely achieved.
Another goal was to radicalize the Ukrainian population against Russia. That has largely
happened, as the TV says Russia stole the Crimea and is sending terrorists and bandits into
the country. Look at all the banditry in the LPR.
Another goal was to stress the Russian military with having to respond to too many problems
in a short period of time, which may be relevant if and when the West hits on several fronts
at once.
Finally, the bankruptcy and transfer of the country from Ukrainian oligarchs to Western
corporations is about to begin. Doubt Russia can stop that.
Not denying that Putin and his circle have survived, and that the Russian economy is in better
shape than most expected, but we should try to think long and hard about the pros and cons of
the Kremlin's approaches.
They surely screwed things up in the Ukraine over the last ten years. Approximately
zero soft power in a place that it should have been straightforward to create.
People have been writing novels and articles for a long time about how the West could gin up
a war in the Ukraine to start an attack on Russia or otherwise break the establishment in Moscow.
It was fairly obvious.
I'm afraid the West would like to start wars in multiple fronts at the same time making it
very hard for Russia to respond.
Kiev would start a major offensive against Donetsk and Lugansk.
Transdnistria is currently blockaded by Moldova and Ukraine with no food supplies allowed
to pass. Moldovan military operation might follow and Russia would be mostly unable to respond
by other means than missile strikes against Moldova – which Russia under extremely cautious
Putin would never do.
Azerbaijan would launch an offensive against Armenia in Nagarno-Karabakh. Russia lacks
common border with Armenia so Russia's options would again be limited.
Albanian proxies, supported and trained by the West, would start military and terrorist
attacks against Macedonian authorities.
NATO would start to bomb Syrian military and capital to oust and kill Assad.
Georgia might start another military operation against South Ossetia in parallel with others
if it thinks Russia is too preoccupied to respond.
NATO-funded and -trained Islamic militants would attack authorities in Central Asian countries
like Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan.
If the West could pull all this through at the same time Russia would be forced to either
capitulate on most fronts or start a major war. Russia could not answer to these threats with
conventional ways so the options for Russia would be to use nuclear weapons or accept a major
geopolitical defeat.
Georgia and Azerbaijan are not likely to cooperate, Ukraine's offensive capability
is minimal, the Americans are not any more eager to attack Syria than they were two years ago,
and the Islamist threat to Central Asia is presently contained.
The Moldovan army is not capable of defeating Transdnistria by itself, so victory would
require NATO troops to join in the attack. And if it comes to the point where NATO is willing
to directly assault Russian forces, then there's no reason to hold back anyway.
The West plays the short game, so initially it may look
like they have achieved much, much like their foreign policy successes at first, which then turn
out to be disasters with the West reduced to firefighting.
1:..destroy businesses (and the military-industrial complex) that were oriented
towards Russia.This has not succeeded. It has without doubt caused problems and will
affect some Russian military effectiveness in the short term, but no. For example, though some
products were actually made in the Ukraine, many of those businesses contracted out the production
of components to Russia.
2: ..radicalize the Ukrainian population against Russia.True, but again
a very short term achievement. Food on plates and jobs don't grow on trees. What we do have
is the ones in the middle who gravitated to the traditional Russophobes, aka swing voters,
but things are only going to get worse in the Ukraine and the Nazi junta cannot deliver. Those
swing voter will swing the other way, not a Russia love in, but a pragmatic middle ground. That
is where they started.
3: Another goal was to stress the Russian military..What evidence is there of
this? Apart from quite a number of massive snap military exercises that Russia has pulled off
and impressed even the Russo-skeptic military crowd at RUSI and other MIX fronts, it is quite
efficient to fly 50 year old Tu-95 bombers around Europe wearing out expensive western military
equipment that will need to be replaced much sooner now than later. All those austerity plans
that call for holding off on major defense spending in Europe are messed up. Money going in to
weapons is money going away from jobs and the economy. Ukraine's rocket cooperation with Brazil
is dead (now switched to Russia) and also with other partners. So far the US has not actively
banned commercial satellites from being launched from Russian rockets, but the US cannot get its
billion dollar spy sats in to space without Russian rocket engines. No-one has yet pulled the
plug
NATO is not going to do anything apart from make as much noise and fearmaking as possible.
It's one thing to scream and shout, its another to drop their trousers. It is quite the paper
tiger. The USAF is set to rapidly shrink according to their own admission. The F-35 is designed
to replace 5 aircraft – hubris or what? The F-15, F16, AV-8B, A-10 & the F-18. It's a pig of an
aircraft that will perform those missions worse, in most cases, than those designed in the late
1960s early 1970s. The American military industrial complex has screwed itself in a bid to
make more money! Their space programs are not exactly brilliant either.
4:the bankruptcy and transfer of the country from Ukrainian oligarchs to Western corporations
is about to begin. [The transfer of property to Western corporations is] Almost inevitable,
but there are several factors at play here. Western investors will have to deliver rather than
just asset strip and run; domestic political repercussions will be huge at least in the medium
to long term.
This is exactly what almost happened to Russia and then look how things turned out. Ukraine
is of course a different case and the West will certainly try and manage it to their advantage,
but it won't work if it is not for sustained profit. Either way it is the West to whom the
Ukrainian citizen will pay tribute, for a long long long time. This is long before we throw
any legal questions in to the mix. Whoever is in power now will pay the political price in future
sooner or later. All Russia needs to do is be fair and reasonable and step in at the right
moment.
As to Moscow screwing up the Ukraine over the last ten years, I think that may be a bit
harsh. Sometimes the best option is to keep your hand out of the viper's nest and do nothing as
much as possible, only intervening when critical.
Part of the problem with western politics and the Pork Pie News Networks of the last 25 years
is the we must do something now mentality. Let's put it this way, you go in to hospital
for a non-critical undiagnosed condition. Would you a) want to have the tests done and the best
course of action chosen with your consent, or b) panic & be rushed to the operating theater so
that they can just have a look around?
To be honest, Western foreign policy has rarely been panicked, but is always exploitative.
If the opportunity arises, it will jump in having prepared the PPNN to scream that something must
be done.
In short, as it is written on the cover of the good book, DON'T PANIC!
No panic here. Just my opinion that the Kremlin needs to study how the ex-Soviet sphere has
played out and deal with things like NGOs and educational, cultural, and media matters. The
science of mind manipulation has made great progress over the last century. It is a big mistake
to just deal on an oligarchic level. Ukrainians have a legitimate gripe that their country is
insanely corrupt and they can easily blame Moscow. That being the case, measures needed to be
taken. And not creating any semblance of a pro-Russian political or intellectual class was similarly
stupid.
As for my view that NATO wants to stress Russia, well, I suppose it comes down to
your Weltanschauung. I think the US has to take Russia down to some degree, even if it is just
smashing Syria. You aren't a superpower if someone can get away with things like grabbing the
Crimea without paying a cost. Plus, Russia provides China with protection till China can develop
a decent military. So the US has a limited amount of time before locking things up. Call it the
Wolfowitz Doctrine if that is your preferred way of looking at it.
If I am right that the US has to tie Russia up, the logical way is to create as many problems
on the periphery as possible. Could be Georgia; could be Central Asia; could be Transnistria.
What would be your advice to those in US think tanks who are trying to keep domination of the
world? What would be a good strategy? And, for what it is worth, I wouldn't take the problems
with certain fighters to mean the US hasn't got great technology in its black projects. That
is where all the money and technology have gone for the last 30 years. Do you really think the
US would struggle to get to the Moon now and did it in 1969? Be serious – all technology is tremendously
better today.
As for Ukrainians losing their anti-Russian religion, well, perhaps. But as long as Russia
occupies the Crimea, that could take a long time. My bet is the anti-Russian sentiment will last
a lot longer than the Ukraine does.
Regardless of the think tanks, one thing the US can no longer ignore is their pocket. That's
where to hit them. Even Osama Bin Laden understood this and was his primary goal to cause the
US to over-extend itself politically & financially.
The US want to do more but it can't
do it the old expensive way – it has less means but it wants to achieve more. Something has to
give. The US has barely started addressing the problem. That's even before we consider the move
of some oil trading out of the US dollar.
And what of the growing number of home grown jihadists that all NATO's wars have created?
For all their support by western foreign policy to undermine Russia, it's a monster that will
bite anyone and is increasingly looking at the West. As others have written before me, does the
West want a reliable partner in Russia whilst it is under threat of jihadism or another big problem
on their plate they can't quite manage?
I have no doubt that the US has been trying to tie up Russia, but it is just more frenetic
than before, the main planks of NATO enlargement (and weakening) resolved, but the rest has gone
a bit wrong. The West is growing increasingly desperate and is trying all sorts of things to undermine
Russia, but it could be much, much worse from a sanctions point of view. Level heads in the West
understand that trying to pull the rug out completely from under Russia is a massive risk and
one they are very careful in making.
As for their wonder-weapons, the US cannot afford enough of them or make them cheap enough
for their allies to buy in sufficient numbers. It is much easier and cheaper to upgrade the sensors
and missiles on a SAM system than to design and bring to production standard a brand new wonder-weapon.
The old days of easily blinding air-defenses are almost over when you can have a lot of cheap
distributed sensors providing the information, passively & actively. The countermeasure is a lot
cheaper.
In al, Money Money Money – and every passing day the US has less to leverage and has to spread
it far and wide:
Western corporations will only plunder the country if they can get a return on their investment,
and except in the case of what they can strip from it – like the black earth – and take away,
that does not seem very likely to me. However, I would agree, and have done since some time ago,
that the west's biggest success was turning Ukraine and Russia into enemies.
NATO has
not quite given up trying to turn Ukraine into a prosperous western democracy within its own orbit,
but the enormity of the task and the hidden factors that make it so is beginning to dawn and enthusiasm
in Europe is well on the wane, remaining strong only in Washington which does not have to do much
of anything but manage.
I think it is clear to Brussels and Washington that Moscow will see Ukraine destroyed and
a failed state before it will allow it to be a NATO satellite snuggled up against its southwestern
borders. The part that NATO is having trouble with is getting Russia to destroy it, so that
it will be in the minds of Ukrainians for generations who did this to them.
NATO is running a steady propaganda campaign about Russian aggression, but I don't know
how well that is actually selling outside Galicia, while it must be clear to a lot of Ukrainians
what a failure the promise of western largesse was.
That's all reasonable, though it is hard to believe that there isn't a lot more than just some
black earth to expropriate.
My limited knowledge of the situation inside the Ukraine is that a lot of Ukrainians do
blame Russia. Why not? That is what the TV says. It is very hard to get someone to admit he made
a mistake.
That's true enough, and it appears there has always been a certain amount of hostility to Russia
west of the Dneipr, so they perhaps did not need too much coaxing. My main point in rubbing
the west's nose around in it is not that they have conclusively lost, because it is indeed early
days to make such a judgement, but that it has not won easily as it bragged it would do.
The country it said it would confidently bat aside in its confident stroll to victory has not
only weathered western attempts to crush its economy and put in place safeguards which will hurt
western business opportunities in future, it has strengthened a powerful alliance with Asia and
garnered considerable international sympathy, which implies increased hostility toward the west.
Meanwhile, the country the west bragged it would snatch from Russia's orbit and make a model of
a prosperous western democracy is miserable, poor and angry.
The west does a poor job of managing expectations generally, and it has done abysmally
this time around. It has no intention of curbing oligarchs in Ukraine and little interest beyond
lip service in genuine reform in Ukraine. For their part, Europe should proceed cautiously with
plans to integrate Ukraine more closely, because it is plain that the interest of Ukraine's oligarchs
in such a course is to broaden their opportunities for stealing and increasing their wealth.
There are plenty of opportunities for the west to steal Ukraine blind, but few that involve
a product or entity that the west can buy, remove and sell somewhere else. Many such opportunities
rely on western interests taking over Ukrainian businesses and asset-stripping them like crazy;
however, the main buyer in many cases would be Russia, which has no interest in making western
businesses rich, or other western buyers who would have to take over and run a Ukrainian business
in a very uncertain environment in which its biggest market is Russia.
A copypaste from Auslander (formelry of MPnet), originally from Saker's blog:
"This is not the first time such atrocities [the mutilated rebel prisoner] have happened
in this conflict and it will not be the last.
The Trade Union Building on maidan square was found to be full of the burned remains
of Berkut prisoners chained to the batteries and pipes after right sector set the building
on fire. The Berkut were burned alive, left to their fate in the very two floors that right
sector called their own during the maidan debacle.
The Trade Union Building in Odessa also had people burned alive, the total death toll
there was almost 300. The sub basement was a charnel house of corpses including women and children.
I know the official death toll and I know the real death toll. We also lost a friend in that
atrocity, not in the building but at the far end of the square, beaten to death because he
was walking home from work at the wrong place and the wrong time. Why was he beaten to death?
He had a speech impediment and when he got nervous he literally could not talk. Since he could
not say 'salo yucrane' 5 right sector boys beat him to death in broad daylight.
Over 200 citizens were killed in Mariupol the following weekend, shot down or burned
to death in Militsiya HQ. In this incident at least a few of the perpetrators were destroyed
in an ambush by Opolchensya as Opelchensya were leaving the city, ordered out as they were
too few to defend the berg.
The killings of innocents and not so innocents have been ongoing since the beginning and
well before the beginning of the conflict that let to what is now Novorossiya. One can not
morally justify killing all the UAF because of the acts of a relative few, but you can rest
assured that documentations are being kept for all who can be identified as committing either
individual or mass atrocities.
To expand on the documentations a tiny bit, do you think all those artillerists who
when captured to a man scream that they did not know they were bombarding and killing thousands
of our civilians are believed? Not hardly. They knowingly committed crimes and they will pay
for their crimes. Do you think all those 'people' who commit atrocities and then post
photos of the atrocities and openly brag about them on social media will walk away unscathed?
Again, no hardly. Do you think we don't know who was and is abducting young women and even
girl children for their use and then killed and discarded them like less than animals? They
are known.
I can go on for reams but you get the idea. These are crimes being committed by a relative
few of UAF, and for the record anyone fighting for Ukraine against Novorossiya is a member
of UAF, their military unit does not matter. In the end justice will be done, by the law and
with due legal process where possible. Where not possible, justice will still be done. Justice,
like revenge, is a dish best served cold.
As for those few of you who are still aghast at the total and deafening silence from USEU
over these ongoing atrocities and crimes, I urge you to forget any chance of anything being
said about we untermenschen being slaughtered by those civilized denizens of USEU. It is not
going to happen so stop complaining about it. Never forget, never forgive, always remember,
but don't complain, it's useless."
Auslander is living in a denial. The perps of these crimes will never face any punishment
because there is nobody to carry out such punishments. Novorossiya is a tiny portion of Ukraine
and the rest is ruled by the Kiev thugs. Novorossiya can never reach the criminals there.
Well, in their lifetime anyway. Russia will not invade and Novorossiya is currently limited
to defending their land against Kiev attacks unable to even liberate Sloviasnk and Mariupol. And
it would be against the nature of Russia (or NAF) to send partizans to kill the perps in Kiev
or Lvov. Russians simply do not behave that way nowadays.
He says "In the end justice will be done, by the law and with due legal process where possible.
Where not possible, justice will still be done. Justice, like revenge, is a dish best served cold."
I do believe various people involved in Odessa have disappeared – or turned up. Dead. Some have
had to go to ground. Some have "died" under unbelievable circumstances, but their new name will
probably still have the same face. The biggest obstacle will be all this wearing of masks, but
with more recent atrocities, where they are garrisoned in the cities for months, they'd be known
anyway..
The spirit of Novorossiya will be expanding (not yet). Things may slowly go back towards normal.
But fully normal it can never be, while murderers and torturers walk free by the hundreds. It
is going to be a very long headache for Ukraine.
I wonder if he has any substantiation for those numbers. Some sources have always said that
hundreds more died in the Trade Unions building in Odessa than were ever officially acknowledged,
but I don't recall hearing about anyone dying in the Trade Unions building on Maidan, and I thought
the death toll in Mariupol was just a few police (not to make it sound like that's nothing) rather
than hundreds. And I follow the situation in Ukraine fairly closely – this would not even register
on those who get all their news from CNN.
Actually it was my net-acquaintances from Serbia and Bulgaria who were arguing with each other
who is more deserving the title of "niggers of Europe". Serbian guy was winning, using the ultimate
proof that Tupak is alive
in Serbia
The election of Poland's new president spells
big problems for Ukraine. The issue is "de-heroization" of OUN-UPA militants whom Ukraine just
recently granted the status of the liberators of Europe from fascism. But unlike Komorowski, who
forgave the Ukrainian heroes the Volhyn Massacre in which the Banderites slaughtered over 200
thousand Poles, the conservative Duda does not intend to sacrifice his principles.
Of course J Hawk's take is probably on the money. J.Hawk's Comment:
Not so fast. I'm not so sure that Duda wants to do any of the things described above. One
of the major reasons Duda won is the defection of the rural voters, whose average income declined
by 14% in 2014 in large measure due to Russian food embargo. Since Duda knows on which side
his bread is buttered (no pun intended), deep down he also realizes the importance of that
embargo lifting. His UPA criticism may well be only an excuse, a pretext to allow himself to
maneuver out of his election campaign pro-Ukraine position while saving face. Because, ultimately,
what is the likelihood that the Rada will actually pass a law that "de-heroizes" UPA to a sufficient
degree? And even if it does, will Bandera monuments start disappearing from Lvov and other
parts of Western Ukraine?
This is so. A state must have myth and Ukraine has already rejected the Soviet myth. Junk
the Bandera myth as well, and what is left? 'Slava Ukraini' hasn't been brilliantly effective
in motivating Ukrainians to fight, but would they have done better with a slogan like 'for the
preservation of ill-gotten capital!'?
Petro Poroshenko, feeling lucky "seller of the air bubble" and a kind of Eastern European Talleyrand,
successfully waltzing between Europe, the US and Russia clearly did not understand what was done
to him in Riga.
In reality nimble provincial business negotiator, "selling" prospects and problems of Ukraine
got into troubles. Poroshenko did not understand that it was not a meeting of equals, and
that part of Europeian elite now think about him as a failure.
Some Europeain leaders get sick and ties of lie and fake promises.
Europe does not want to pay to keep Poroshenko regome afloot. And reforms are ellusive,
the oligarchs still rules (as they should in neoliberal regime), but does not allow Western businessmen,
deputies and demagogues to enrich themselves. That means that ministers corrupt, and that Poroshenko
regime is annoying foreign visitors Ukrainian TV-show.
The danger for Poroshenko is that money might run out the country. The coincidence of negative
domestic and foreign policy evaluations is a good sign. President Poroshenko need to do something.
Iether to initiate reforms, risking the loss of power and property, but to gain the respect of the
people for the courage and statehood. Or start to repaint Presidential administrator building.
Poor Ukrainian citizens got back to 90th instead of EU...
Notable quotes:
"... and it is a bit too much like the assumptions made by American and EU policy makers who originally thought that sanctions would get the Russian people to blame Putin. ..."
The contraction in Ukraine's economy accelerated to 17.6% in the first quarter compared with a
year earlier, the State Statistics Service said Friday, hammered by a conflict with Russia-backed
separatists in its eastern industrial heartland that has slashed industrial output.
Gross domestic product for the period slid 6.5% from the final quarter of 2014, the agency said.
Ukraine reached a cease-fire deal with the separatists in February that has reduced--but not ended--fighting.
Talks over a longer-term political resolution to the conflict have stalled with each side blaming
the other.
The contraction was "a little bit worse than we estimated," according to Olena Bilan, chief economist
at Dragon Capital brokerage. She said the economy had also been damaged by shrinking domestic consumption
after the country's currency collapsed and inflation shot up. Retail spending was down 31% in March
compared with the same month last year, according to Dragon Capital.
Still, analysts said the contraction in the last quarter is likely to be the worst for the year,
as the economy's plunge began last summer as fighting picked up. Ukraine's government has forecast
a 5.5% contraction this year, but the World Bank said last month that Ukraine's economy would shrink
by 7.5%.
"In certain sectors are showing that the economy is testing the bottom," said Alexander Valchyshen,
head of research at ICU investment firm, citing transportation and agriculture as examples of industries
experiencing a turnaround. " Going forward I think the stronger decline we are having in the first
quarter, the stronger rebound in the second half of the year, because last year it was the second
half of the year when we started registering the collapse."
See also
Ukraine eyes strategic investors in sell-off of state-owned assets: Kiev
has drawn up a list of around 280 companies it hopes to privatise, earning up to 17 billion hryvnia
($821.26 million) in the process. The list includes three thermal power plants and 13 ports.
So Ukraine's GDP drop in 2015 is likely going to be over 20%. I recall Moody's, etc forecasting
a GDP drop of 2% for Ukraine and 6% for Russia. The 2% figure actually is looking more realistic
for Russia this year and is total BS if applied to Ukraine.
These numbers are full on depression ones. The USA's GDP went down 25% during the Great Depression.
I see Ukraine going down 30% and Ukraine was not doing so well before this disaster started.
First the observation – you suggest that the EU will come to blame America for the soured relationship
with Russia.
I think that's a little bit too simplified to properly describe what might occur in Europe
(I would imagine that only SOME EU members' populations will come to blame America, others will
blame Russia for the EU's soured relationship with Russia) and it is a bit too much like the
assumptions made by American and EU policy makers who originally thought that sanctions would
get the Russian people to blame Putin. Just as how that assumption was faulty, the assumption
that the EU will come to blame America could also probably be faulty and likely is given the deepset
Russophobia in many parts of Europe.
Already Ukraine is approaching that point. With most of its scarce resources focused on fighting
Russia's proxies in the east, Ukraine's leaders have watched their economy fall off a cliff, surviving
only by the grace of massive loans from Western institutions like the International Monetary Fund, which
approved another $17.5 billion last month to be disbursed over the next four years. But that assistance
has not stopped the national currency of Ukraine from losing two-thirds of its value since last winter.
In the last three months of 2014, the size of the economy contracted almost 15%, inflation shot up to
40%, and unemployment approached double digits.
Notable quotes:
"... "Personally, I do not consider Russia to be an aggressor," he said, looking down at his lap. ..."
"... Its economy cannot survive, he says, unless trade and cooperation with the "aggressor state" continue, regardless how much Russia has done in the past year to sow conflict in Ukraine. ..."
"... Already Ukraine is approaching that point. With most of its scarce resources focused on fighting Russia's proxies in the east, Ukraine's leaders have watched their economy fall off a cliff, surviving only by the grace of massive loans from Western institutions like the International Monetary Fund, which approved another $17.5 billion last month to be disbursed over the next four years. But that assistance has not stopped the national currency of Ukraine from losing two-thirds of its value since last winter. In the last three months of 2014, the size of the economy contracted almost 15%, inflation shot up to 40%, and unemployment approached double digits. ..."
"... About 40% of its orders normally come from Russia, which relies on Turboatom for most of the turbines that run its nuclear power stations. ..."
"... So for all the aid coming from the state-backed institutions in the U.S. and Europe, Cherkassky says, "those markets haven't exactly met us with open arms." ..."
Having survived an assassin's bullet, a revolution and a war, Gennady Kernes now faces a fight
over Ukraine's constitution
One afternoon in late February, Gennady Kernes, the mayor of Kharkov, Ukraine's second largest
city, pushed his wheelchair away from the podium at city hall and, with a wince of discomfort, allowed
his bodyguards to help him off the stage. The day's session of the city council had lasted several
hours, and the mayor's pain medication had begun to wear off. It was clear from the grimace on his
face how much he still hurt from the sniper's bullet that nearly killed him last spring. But he collected
himself, adjusted his tie and rolled down the aisle to the back of the hall, where the press was
waiting to grill him.
"Gennady Adolfovich," one of the local journalists began, politely addressing the mayor by his
name and patronymic. "Do you consider Russia to be an aggressor?" He had seen this loaded question
coming. The previous month, Ukraine's parliament had unanimously voted to declare Russia an "aggressor
state," moving the two nations closer to a formal state of war after nearly a year of armed conflict.
Kernes, long known as a shrewd political survivor, was among the only prominent officials in Ukraine
to oppose this decision, even though he knew he could be branded a traitor for it. "Personally,
I do not consider Russia to be an aggressor," he said, looking down at his lap.
It was a sign of his allegiance in the new phase of Ukraine's war. Since February, when a fragile
ceasefire began to take hold, the question of the country's survival has turned to a debate over
its reconstitution. Under the conditions of the truce, Russia has demanded that Ukraine embrace "federalization,"
a sweeping set of constitutional reforms that would take power away from the capital and redistribute
it to the regions. Ukraine now has to decide how to meet this demand without letting its eastern
provinces fall deeper into Russia's grasp.
The state council charged with making this decision convened for the first time on April 6, and
President Petro Poroshenko gave it strict instructions. Some autonomy would have to be granted to
the regions, he said, but Russia's idea of federalization was a red line he wouldn't cross. "It is
like an infection, a biological weapon, which is being imposed on Ukraine from abroad," the President
said. "Its bacteria are trying to infect Ukraine and destroy our unity."
Kernes sees it differently. His city of 1.4 million people is a sprawling industrial powerhouse,
a traditional center of trade and culture whose suburbs touch the Russian border. Its economy
cannot survive, he says, unless trade and cooperation with the "aggressor state" continue, regardless
how much Russia has done in the past year to sow conflict in Ukraine.
"That's how the Soviet Union built things," Kernes explains in his office at the mayoralty, which
is decorated with an odd collection of gifts and trinkets, such as a stuffed lion, a robotic-looking
sculpture of a scorpion, and a statuette of Kernes in the guise of Vladimir Lenin, the founder of
the Soviet Union. "That's how our factories were set up back in the day," he continues. "It's a fact
of life. And what will we do if Russia, our main customer, stops buying?" To answer his own question,
he uses an old provincialism: "It'll be cat soup for all of us then," he said.
Already Ukraine is approaching that point. With most of its scarce resources focused on fighting
Russia's proxies in the east, Ukraine's leaders have watched their economy fall off a cliff, surviving
only by the grace of massive loans from Western institutions like the International Monetary Fund,
which approved another $17.5 billion last month to be disbursed over the next four years. But that
assistance has not stopped the national currency of Ukraine from losing two-thirds of its value since
last winter. In the last three months of 2014, the size of the economy contracted almost 15%, inflation
shot up to 40%, and unemployment approached double digits.
But that pain will be just the beginning, says Kernes, unless Ukraine allows its eastern regions
to develop economic ties with Russia. As proof he points to the fate of Turboatom, his city's biggest
factory, which produces turbines for both Russian and Ukrainian power stations. Its campus takes
up more than five square kilometers near the center of Kharkov, like a city within a city, complete
with dormitories and bathhouses for its 6,000 employees. On a recent evening, its deputy director,
Alexei Cherkassky, was looking over the factory's sales list as though it were a dire medical prognosis.
About 40% of its orders normally come from Russia, which relies on Turboatom for most of the
turbines that run its nuclear power stations.
"Unfortunately, all of our major industries are intertwined with Russia in this way," Cherkassky
says. "So we shouldn't fool ourselves in thinking we can be independent from Russia. We are totally
interdependent." Over the past year, Russia has started cutting back on orders from Turboatom as
part of its broader effort to starve Ukraine's economy, and the factory has been forced as a result
to cut shifts, scrap overtime and push hundreds of workers into retirement.
At least in the foreseeable future, it does not have the option of shifting sales to Europe. "Turbines
aren't iPhones," says Cherkassky. "You don't switch them out every few months." And the ones produced
at Turboatom, like nearly all of Ukraine's heavy industry, still use Soviet means of production that
don't meet the needs of most Western countries. So for all the aid coming from the state-backed
institutions in the U.S. and Europe, Cherkassky says, "those markets haven't exactly met us with
open arms."
Russia knows this. For decades it has used the Soviet legacy of interdependence as leverage in
eastern Ukraine. The idea of its "federalization" derives in part from this reality. For two decades,
one of the leading proponents of this vision has been the Russian politician Konstantin Zatulin,
who heads the Kremlin-connected institute in charge of integrating the former Soviet space. Since
at least 2004, he has been trying to turn southeastern Ukraine into a zone of Russian influence –
an effort that got him banned from entering the country between 2006 and 2010.
His political plan for controlling Ukraine was put on hold last year, as Russia began using military
means to achieve the same ends. But the current ceasefire has brought his vision back to the fore.
"If Ukraine accepts federalization, we would have no need to tear Ukraine apart," Zatulin says in
his office in Moscow, which is cluttered with antique weapons and other military bric-a-brac. Russia
could simply build ties with the regions of eastern Ukraine that "share the Russian point of view
on all the big issues," he says. "Russia would have its own soloists in the great Ukrainian choir,
and they would sing for us. This would be our compromise."
It is a compromise that Kernes seems prepared to accept, despite everything he has suffered in
the past year of political turmoil. Early on in the conflict with Russia, he admits that he flirted
with ideas of separatism himself, and he fiercely resisted the revolution that brought Poroshenko's
government to power last winter. In one of its first decisions, that government even
brought charges
against Kernes for allegedly abducting, threatening and torturing supporters of the revolution in
Kharkov. After that, recalls Zatulin, the mayor "simply chickened out." Facing a long term in prison,
Kernes accepted Ukraine's new leaders and turned his back on the separatist cause, refusing to allow
his city to hold a referendum on secession from Ukraine.
"And you know what I got for that," Kernes says. "I got a bullet." On April 28, while he was exercising
near a city park, an unidentified sniper shot Kernes in the back with a high-caliber rifle. The bullet
pierced his lung and shredded part of his liver, but it also seemed to shore up his bona fides as
a supporter of Ukrainian unity. The state dropped its charges against him soon after, and he was
able to return to his post.
It wasn't the first time he made such an incredible comeback. In 2007, while he was serving as
adviser to his friend and predecessor, Mikhail Dobkin, a
video of them trying to film
a campaign ad was leaked to the press. It contained such a hilarious mix of bumbling incompetence
and backalley obscenity that both of their careers seemed sure to be over. Kernes not only survived
that scandal but was elected mayor a few years later.
Now the fight over Ukraine's federalization is shaping up to be his last. In late March, as he
continued demanding more autonomy for Ukraine's eastern regions, the state re-opened its case against
him for alleged kidnapping and torture, which he has always denied. The charges, he says, are part
of a campaign against all politicians in Ukraine who support the restoration of civil ties with Russia.
"They don't want to listen to reason," he says.
But one way or another, the country will still have to let its eastern regions to do business
with the enemy next door, "because that's where the money is," Kernes says. No matter how much aid
Ukraine gets from the IMF and other Western backers, it will not be enough to keep the factories
of Kharkov alive. "They'll just be left to rot without our steady clients in Russia." Never mind
that those clients may have other plans for Ukraine in mind.
YAVORIV, Ukraine - The exercise, one of the most fundamental in the military handbook, came off
without a hitch. A soldier carrying a length of rope and a grappling hook ran to within 20 feet or
so of a coil of concertina wire and stopped.
For a moment, he twirled the rope in his hands like a lasso, then threw the hook over the wire,
and tugged hard, testing for explosives.
When nothing happened he signaled two comrades, who ran up and started snipping the wire with
cutters.
Although this was a typical training exercise for raw recruits in an elemental soldierly skill,
there was nothing typical about the scene. Far from enlistees, these soldiers were regulars in the
Ukrainian National Guard, presumably battle-hardened after months on the front lines in eastern
Ukraine. And the trainer was an American military instructor, drilling troops for battle with
the United States' former Cold War foe, Russia, and Russian-backed separatists.
... ... ...
The training included simulations of a suspect's detention. Credit Brendan Hoffman for The
New York Times
The course on cutting wire is one of 63 classes of remedial military instruction being provided
by 300
United States Army trainers in three consecutive two-month courses.
Here in western
Ukraine, they are far from the fighting, and their job is to instill some basic military know-how
in Ukrainian soldiers, who the trainers have discovered are woefully unprepared. The largely unschooled
troops are learning such basic skills as how to use an encrypted walkie-talkie; how to break open
a door with a sledgehammer and a crowbar; and how to drag a wounded colleague across a field while
holding a rifle at the ready.
... ... ...
The United States is also providing advanced courses for military professionals known as forward
observers - the ones who call in targets - to improve the accuracy of artillery fire, making it more
lethal for the enemy and less so for civilians.
Photo
The training also included simulations of a home raid. Credit Brendan Hoffman for The New York
Times
Oleksandr I. Leshchenko, the deputy director for training in the National Guard, was somewhat
skeptical about the value of the training, saying that "99 percent" of the men in the course had
already been in combat.
... ... ...
American officers described the course work as equivalent to the latter months of basic training
in the United States. The courses will train 705 Ukrainian soldiers at a cost of $19 million over
six months. The Ukrainian National Guard is rotating from the front what units it can spare for the
training. American instructors intend to recommend top performers to serve as trainers within other
Ukrainian units, and in this way spread the instruction more broadly.
"... American soldiers in Ukraine, American media not saying much about it. Two facts. ..."
"... Americans are being led blindfolded very near the brink of war with Russia. ..."
"... Don't need a war to get what done, Mr. President? This is our question. Then this one: Washington is going to stop at exactly what as it manipulates its latest set of puppets in disadvantaged countries, this time pretending there is absolutely nothing thoughtless or miscalculated about doing so on Russia's historically sensitive western border? ..."
"... And our policy cliques are willing to go all the way to war for this? As of mid-April, when the 173rd Airborne Brigade started arriving in Ukraine, it looks as if we are on notice in this respect. ..."
"... Take a deep breath and consider that 1,000 American folks, as Obama will surely get around to calling them, are conducting military drills with troops drawn partly from Nazi and crypto-Nazi paramilitary groups . Sorry, I cannot add anything more to this paragraph. Speechless. ..."
"... Part of me still thinks war with Russia seems a far-fetched proposition. But here's the thing: It is even more far-fetched to deny the gravity of this moment for all its horrific, playing-with-fire potential. ..."
"... Last December, John Pilger, the noted Australian journalist now in London, said in a speech that the Ukraine crisis had become the most extreme news blackout he had seen his entire career. I agree and now need no more proof as to whether it is a matter of intent or ineptitude. (Now that I think of it, it is both in many cases.) ..."
"... In the sixth paragraph we get this: "Last week, Russia charged that a modest program to train Ukraine's national guard that 300 American troops are carrying out in western Ukraine could 'destabilize the situation.'" Apoplectically speaking: Goddamn it, there is nothing modest about U.S. troops operating on Ukrainian soil, and it is self-evidently destabilizing. It is an obvious provocation, a point the policy cliques in Washington cannot have missed. ..."
"... The Poroshenko government contrives to assign Russia the blame, but one can safely ignore this. Extreme right members of parliament have been more to the point. After a prominent editor named Oles Buzyna was fatally shot outside his home several weeks ago, a lawmaker named Boris Filatov told colleagues, "One more piece of shit has been eliminated." From another named Irina Farion, this: Death will neutralize the dirt this shit has spilled. Such people go to history's sewers." ..."
"... He was a vigorous opponent of American adventurism abroad, consistent and reasoned even as resistance to both grew in his later years. By the time he was finished he was published and read far more outside America than in it. ..."
As of mid-April, when a Pentagon flack announced it in Kiev, and as barely reported in American media, U.S. troops are now operating
openly in Ukraine.
Now there is a lead I have long dreaded writing but suspected from the first that one day I would. Do not take a moment to think
about this. Take many moments. We all need to. We find ourselves in grave circumstances this spring.
At first I thought I had written what newspaper people call a double-barreled lead: American soldiers in Ukraine, American
media not saying much about it. Two facts.
Wrong. There is one fact now, and it is this: Americans are being led blindfolded very near the brink of war with Russia.
One cannot predict there will be one. And, of course, right-thinking people hope things will never come to one. In March, President
Obama dismissed any such idea as if to suggest it was silly. "They're not interested in a military confrontation with us," Obama
said of the Russians-wisely. Then he added, unwisely: "We don't need a war."
Don't need a war to get what done, Mr. President? This is our question. Then this one: Washington is going to stop at exactly
what as it manipulates its latest set of puppets in disadvantaged countries, this time pretending there is absolutely nothing thoughtless
or miscalculated about doing so on Russia's historically sensitive western border?
The pose of American innocence, tatty and tiresome in the best of times, is getting dangerous once again.
The source of worry now is that we do not have an answer to the second question. The project is plain: Advance NATO the rest of
the way through Eastern Europe, probably with the intent of eventually destabilizing Moscow. The stooges now installed in Kiev are
getting everything ready for the corporations eager to exploit Ukrainian resources and labor.
And our policy cliques are willing to go all the way to war for this? As of mid-April, when the 173rd Airborne Brigade started
arriving in Ukraine, it looks as if we are on notice in this respect.
In the past there were a few vague mentions of an American military presence in Ukraine that was to be in place by this spring,
if I recall correctly. These would have been last autumn. By then, there were also reports, unconfirmed, that some troops and a lot
of spooks were already there as advisers but not acknowledged.
Then in mid-March President Poroshenko introduced a bill authorizing-as required by law-foreign troops to operate on Ukrainian soil.
There was revealing detail, according to Russia Insider, a free-standing website in Moscow founded and run by Charles Bausman, an
American with an uncanny ability to gather and publish pertinent information.
"According to the draft law, Ukraine plans three
Ukrainian-American command post exercises, Fearless Guardian 2015, Sea Breeze 2015 and Saber Guardian/Rapid Trident 2015," the publication
reported, "and two Ukrainian-Polish exercises, Secure Skies 2015, and Law and Order 2015, for this year."
This is a lot of dry-run maneuvering, if you ask me. Poroshenko's law allows for up to 1,000 American troops to participate in
each of these exercises, alongside an equal number of Ukrainian "National Guardsmen," and we will insist on the quotation marks when
referring to this gruesome lot, about whom more in a minute.
Take a deep breath and consider that 1,000 American folks, as Obama will surely get around to calling them, are conducting
military drills with troops drawn partly from Nazi and crypto-Nazi paramilitary groups . Sorry, I cannot add anything more to this
paragraph. Speechless.
It was a month to the day after Poroshenko's bill went to parliament that the Pentagon spokesman in Kiev announced-to a room empty
of American correspondents, we are to assume-that troops from the 173rd Airborne were just then arriving to train none other than
"National Guardsmen." This training includes "classes in war-fighting functions," as the operations officer, Maj. Jose Mendez, blandly
put it at the time.
The spokesman's number was "about 300," and I never like "about" when these people are describing deployments. This is how it
always begins, we will all recall. The American presence in Vietnam began with a handful of advisers who arrived in September 1950.
(Remember MAAG, the Military Assistance Advisory Group?)
Part of me still thinks war with Russia seems a far-fetched proposition. But here's the thing: It is even more far-fetched
to deny the gravity of this moment for all its horrific, playing-with-fire potential.
I am getting on to apoplectic as to the American media's abject irresponsibility in not covering this stuff adequately. To leave
these events unreported is outright lying by omission. Nobody's news judgment can be so bad as to argue this is not a story.
Last December, John Pilger, the noted Australian journalist now in London, said in a speech that the Ukraine crisis had become
the most extreme news blackout he had seen his entire career. I agree and now need no more proof as to whether it is a matter of
intent or ineptitude. (Now that I think of it, it is both in many cases.)
To cross the "i"s and dot the "t"s, as I prefer to do, the Times did make two mentions of the American troops. One was the day
of the announcement, a brief piece on an inside page, datelined Washington. Here we get our code word for this caper: It will be
"modest" in every mention.
The second was in an April 23 story by Michael Gordon, the State Department correspondent. The head was, "Putin Bolsters His Forces
Near Ukraine, U.S. Says."
Read the thing here.
The story line is a doozy: Putin-not "the Russians" or "Moscow," of course-is again behaving aggressively by amassing troops-how
many, exactly where and how we know is never explained-along his border with Ukraine. Inside his border, that is. This is the story.
This is what we mean by aggression these days.
In the sixth paragraph we get this: "Last week, Russia charged that a modest program to train Ukraine's national guard that
300 American troops are carrying out in western Ukraine could 'destabilize the situation.'" Apoplectically speaking: Goddamn it,
there is nothing modest about U.S. troops operating on Ukrainian soil, and it is self-evidently destabilizing. It is an obvious provocation,
a point the policy cliques in Washington cannot have missed.
At this point, I do not see how anyone can stand against the argument-mine for some time-that Putin has shown exemplary restraint
in this crisis. In a reversal of roles and hemispheres, Washington would have a lot more than air defense systems and troops of whatever
number on the border in question.
The Times coverage of Ukraine, to continue briefly in this line, starts to remind me of something I.F. Stone once said about the
Washington Post: The fun of reading it, the honored man observed, is that you never know where you'll find a page one story.
In the Times' case, you never know if you will find it at all.
Have you read much about the wave of political assassinations that erupted in Kiev in mid-April? Worry not. No one else has either-not
in American media. Not a word in the Times.
The number my sources give me, and I cannot confirm it, is a dozen so far-12 to 13 to be precise. On the record, we have 10 who
can be named and identified as political allies of Viktor Yanukovych, the president ousted last year, opponents of a drastic rupture
in Ukraine's historic relations to Russia, people who favored marking the 70th anniversary of the Soviet defeat of the Nazis-death-deserving
idea, this-and critics of the new regime's corruptions and dependence on violent far-right extremists.
These were all highly visible politicians, parliamentarians and journalists. They have been murdered by small groups of these
extremists, according to reports readily available in non-American media. In my read, the killers may have the same semi-official
ties to government that the paramilitary death squads in 1970s Argentina-famously recognizable in their Ford Falcons-had with Videla
and the colonels.
The Poroshenko government contrives to assign Russia the blame, but one can safely ignore this. Extreme right members of parliament
have been more to the point. After a prominent editor named Oles Buzyna was fatally shot outside his home several weeks ago, a lawmaker
named Boris Filatov told colleagues, "One more piece of shit has been eliminated." From another named Irina Farion, this: Death will
neutralize the dirt this shit has spilled. Such people go to history's sewers."
Kindly place, Kiev's parliament under this new crowd. Washington must be proud, having backed yet another right-wing, anti-democratic,
rights-trampling regime that does what it says.
And our media must be silent, of course. It can be no other way. Gutless hacks: You bet I am angry.
* * *
I end this week's column with a tribute.
A moment of observance, any kind, for William Pfaff, who died at 86 in Paris late last week. The appreciative obituary by the
Times' Marlise Simons is
here.
Pfaff was the most sophisticated foreign affairs commentator of the 20th century's second half and the first 15 years of this
one. He was a great influence among colleagues (myself included) and put countless readers in a lot of places in the picture over
many decades. He was a vigorous opponent of American adventurism abroad, consistent and reasoned even as resistance to both grew
in his later years. By the time he was finished he was published and read far more outside America than in it.
Pfaff was a conservative man in some respects, which is not uncommon among America's American critics. In this I put him in the
file with Henry Steele Commager, C. Vann Woodward, William Appleman Williams, and among those writing now, Andrew Bacevich. He was
not a scholar, as these writers were or are, supporting a point I have long made: Not all intellectuals are scholars, and not all
scholars are intellectuals.
Pfaff's books will live on and I commend them: "Barbarian Sentiments," "The Wrath of Nations," "The Bullet's Song," and his last,
"The Irony of Manifest Destiny," are the ones on my shelf.
Farewell from a friend, Bill.
Patrick Smith is the author of "Time No Longer:
Americans After the American Century." He was the International Herald Tribune's bureau chief in Hong Kong and then Tokyo from
1985 to 1992. During this time he also wrote "Letter from Tokyo" for the New Yorker. He is the author of four previous books and
has contributed frequently to the New York Times, the Nation, the Washington Quarterly, and other publications. Follow him on Twitter,
@thefloutist.More Patrick L. Smith.
Judging by the coverage of the Sochi Olympics, which often seemed to focus more on allegedly
dodgy plumbing and other supposed deficiencies of Russian preparations than on the games
themselves, Russophobia had acquired a firm grip on the minds of Western journalists even before
the annexation of Crimea in March 2014. Since then that grip has become stronger still. Richard
Sakwa complains in his new book Frontline Ukraine that the Western media have displayed
'unabashed militancy. … Their partisanship and profound lack of historical understanding would
demean a Third World dictatorship' (p. 220). Furthermore, he claims, 'This irresponsibility
reached the highest echelons of power' as politicians lined up to denounce 'Russian aggression'.
A powerful narrative has taken hold about events in Ukraine which brooks no opposition.
According to this, the war in Donbas is solely the fault of Russia, and particularly of Russia's
president, Vladimir Putin, and ending the conflict requires the West to stand up to Russia, show
resolve, and support the Ukrainian government in all its efforts to regain control of its lost
territory. Anybody who dares to suggest anything else is likely to be denounced as a 'Kremlin
stooge', or as one of Putin's 'useful idiots'. As Sakwa puts it, 'Those calling for restraint,
consideration and dialogue have not only been ignored but also abused, and calls for sanity have
not only been marginalised but also delegitimated' (p. 1). 'Arguments in favour of engagement,
dialogue and a little understanding are met with a barrage of imprecations and false historical
analogies,' he says (p. 116).
In this context, Frontline Ukraine is a courageous book. It analyzes the causes of
the current conflict in Ukraine, and in the process directly challenges the prevailing narrative.
Sakwa, the author of several previous books on Russian politics, paints Russia as the injured
party, and lays the blame for the crisis firmly on those Ukrainians who took power in February
2014 after overthrowing President Viktor Yanukovich, as well as on their backers in the North
Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the European Union (EU).
The war in Donbas, says Sakwa, is the product of a clash between two separate pairs of
competing visions. The first pair consists of two contrasting visions of Europe; the second of
two contrasting visions of Ukrainian statehood. Peace in Ukraine had depended on maintaining a
delicate balance between them. The overthrow of Yanukovich destroyed that balance and paved the
way for the imposition of one set of visions at the expense of the other. The response to this
forcible imposition was rebellion.
At the end of the Cold War, Europe could go down one of two paths, Sakwa claims: towards
'Wider Europe', which is essentially an extension of Western Europe 'with the EU at its heart';
or towards 'Greater Europe, a vision of a continental Europe, stretching from Lisbon to
Vladivostok' (p. 26). The West chose the former, expanding the EU and NATO eastwards while
excluding Russia from the governance of the continent. 'On coming to power in 2000, Putin sought
engagement and accommodation with the West … and was perhaps the most pro-European leader Russia
has ever had,' writes Sakwa (p. 30). Putin's efforts to reach accommodation with the West were,
however, continually rebuffed.
Worse, after the 2008 Russo-Georgian War, the EU, under the influence of the Swedish and
Polish foreign ministers Carl Bildt and Radek Sikorski, designed the Eastern Partnership (EaP) to
bring former Soviet states other than Russia within its fold. 'Instead of finding ways to
transcend the deepening lines of division in the continent, the two [Bildt and Sikorski] set
about giving these divisions institutional form,' Sakwa writes (p. 39). The goal of the EaP 'was
to engineer Ukraine's separation from Russia' and thus it 'rendered the EU as much of a threat in
Russian perceptions as NATO' (p. 41). The consequence was that Russia put intense pressure on
Yanukovich not to sign an association agreement with the EU. His eventual refusal to sign
provided the spark which ignited the Maidan protests and eventually set Donbas aflame.
The war is not, however, purely a product of this geopolitical context. The overwhelming
majority of the rebel fighters are Ukrainian citizens, not Russians. This is primarily a civil
war, and its roots lie within Ukraine 'There are two contrasting visions of statehood,' Sakwa
writes, 'and ultimately the Ukrainian crisis of 2013-14 is a battle between the two' (p. 14). The
first of these visions he describes as 'monist'. In this, the most desirable future of Ukraine is
one in which there is a unitary national identity. That requires the imposition of a single
historical memory on the whole country, as well as the maintenance of Ukrainian as the sole
official language. The second vision Sakwa calls 'pluralist'. According to the pluralist model,
'Ukraine is not one culture but many … a richly diverse society. … For the pluralists multiple
religious and linguistic orientations do not represent a danger to the state … but the opposite:
the diversity contributes to a rich and multifaceted culture' (p. 24).
Sakwa's sympathies lie clearly with the pluralist vision. He regards the monist alternative as
ignoring Ukraine's reality, as well as being innately anti-Russian. The protests on Maidan began
as a liberal, civic reaction to a corrupt government, but were hijacked by monist nationalists;
'A conservative, Russophobic nationalist ideology came to predominate' (p. 91). The new
government which came to power in February 2014 instituted policies which thoroughly alienated
the population of Donbas. In the face of opposition, it refused to make any meaningful
concessions. Moreover, 'some of its ministers used language that was highly suggestive of the
"blood and iron" purification through violence of earlier fascist movements' (p. 135). The result
was rebellion. Despite the support it received from Russia, this rebellion was 'primarily a
homegrown phenomenon' (p. 154). The Ukrainian government and its Western backers have refused to
accept this, however, and have instead chosen to point to an external actor – Russia – as the
source of their problems. They have thereby freed themselves of responsibility for their own
actions, while also making it impossible for them to find solutions to the crisis.
Some may find Sakwa's analysis one-sided. Russia's mistakes and misbehaviors are explained,
while those of the West and Ukraine are condemned. Nevertheless, Sakwa supports his thesis with
considerable evidence and lays out a powerful case. He is entirely right to point out that the
war in Donbas is as much a product of the actions of those who protested on Maidan and
subsequently took power in Kiev, as of Russia. The 'blame everything on Russia' narrative which
dominates in Kiev and in the West is both inaccurate and unhelpful. Frontline Ukraine
brings much needed balance to a subject which badly needs it.
Such an elaborate dance around facts. From comments: "It is so depressing when there is far more
information in the comments section than in the article itself. It seems the new editor is keen to continue
the traditions of her predecessor." This is one event about which there is quite a lot of information
to see how Guardian presstitutes try to bent the truth. See
Odessa
Massacre of May 2, 2014
The emergency calls became increasingly desperate. "When are you coming? It's already burning
and there are people inside," a woman told the fire brigade dispatcher. Minutes later, callers started
describing how people were jumping from the upper floors. "Have you lost your minds?" one man asked,
his voice breaking. "There are women and children in the building!" another man yelled. In one of
the most deadly episodes in Ukraine's turbulent 2014 power transition, 48 people were killed and
hundreds injured on 2 May last year in the Black Sea port of Odessa.
Street battles culminated in a fatal fire at Soviet-era building where hundreds of pro-Russia
activists were barricaded in.
VengefulRevenant -> AlfredHerring 1 May 2015 17:24
The victims are the ones who were raped, shot or burned to death in the massacre.
The perpetrators are those protected by the NATO-backed regime which has failed to investigate
the massacre.
The apologists are the NATO-aligned media who blame the victims or assign blame equally to the
killers and the dead along the lines of, 'There was heroism and cruelty on both sides.'
normankirk -> Metronome151 1 May 2015 16:52
Well isn't it wonderful to hear a diversity of views expressed on Russian TV. When all we
hear is how all media is controlled by the Kremlin
Kaiama Danram 1 May 2015 16:48
So the dead Ukrainian children and women are Kremlin goons too?
How simple your life must be to allow you to make such simplistic conclusions.
vr13vr 1 May 2015 16:46
Some nice whitewashing. Now it's fault of the victims and the heroism of the perpetrators,
there hasn't been and there will be no investigation and the word massacre is no longer used.
For those of you who still argue it was not a massacre but some mysterious suicide by 48 people
who set themselves afire, here is footage again.
Take a look at some of the pretty revealing moments:
23 min mark - Ukrainians are entering the building, there was no resistance.
24:20. A group of Ukrainians go upstairs, there is no fire yet.
26:20 Some are coming returning. The stairs are being set on fire.
27:50 A Ukrainian is firing gun at those trying to jump from the building.
While in the building, Ukrainians were slaughtering people. And it wasn't a fight. Half of the
victims were middle-aged. At least 10 of them - women.
31min - 33min - the victims who got out have their faces and hands disfigured while the rest
of their bodies don't have the same injuries. That's what happens if someone splashes fuel over
someone's face and light it up. There are pictures of victims with only their heads and hands
burned.
33min - 35min - there were women among those trying to find safety in the building. Some of
them are middle-aged. They were not fighters, as the article would imply.
36min- 37min - Ukrainians were inside the building, setting it on fire and killing those whom
they could find, a young woman in this specific frame.
46min - a person was bludgeoned to death. The room doesn't have marks of fire but the blood
is splattered all over the room.
48min-50min - the same story, Ukrainians were slaughtering their victims.
1h:00min - Ukrainians are entering the building again, this time from the make shift scaffolding.
Any attempt to pretend there was a fight rather than a massacre is crazy. Any suggestion that
somehow people inside were setting themselves on fire is ludicrous in light of evidence that
the Ukis were inside the building. And the fact that Kiev doesn't even see it as murder makes
me just angry.
AbsolutelyFapulous -> PlatonKuzin 1 May 2015 16:43
Odessa as well as the most Ukraine is a Russian soil.
Donno why you are commenting here. You even don't seem to be able to read a map.
BorninUkraine -> RonBuckley 1 May 2015 16:25
In a way, you are right, it was the US (via Vicky "f… the EU" Nuland and mad John McCain)
that pushed Ukraine over the cliff. As usual, the EU "leaders" (Merkel, etc) acted as US lackeys.
However, equal blame goes to stupid and thieving Ukrainian elites, under whose "leadership"
the country was on the edge of that cliff to begin with.
Current Ukrainian "leaders" keep stealing everything they can, including financial and material
aid from the West. What else is new?
MaoChengJi -> Goodthanx 1 May 2015 16:03
Yeah. I'm convinced that they should've sent paratroopers and take Kiev right the next day
after the coup d'etat; stop this whole unholy mess right then and there. That really would've
saved tens of thousands of lives - if not millions, seeing how this thing seems to escalate,
leading us to a nuclear war.
Putin is a pussy, Medvedev got it right in Georgia in 2008. Well, frankly Medvedev is a pussy
too. He should've taken Tbilisi, and put Saakashvili on trial.
To teach the bastards a lesson.
Instead, now we hear every day 'Russia will not fight Ukraine', 'Russia will not fight Ukraine',
and the murdering Nazi bastards get bolder and bolder. What's the point of having all that military
hardware if you're afraid to use it. They Yanks would've taken control of the place months ago,
look at Grenada.
RonBuckley -> BorninUkraine 1 May 2015 15:52
Well said, man. Yes, Ukrainian politics have always been divisive, stupid, thievery and corrupt.
That said they had neither brains nor money for a coup. So Ukraine should thank certain external
powers for the deep shit it is in now.
PlatonKuzin -> puttypants 1 May 2015 15:31
Odessa as well as the most Ukraine is a Russian soil. That's the point. And the state of
Ukraine is a temporary occupier of the Russian soil. So people living in Odessa don't have to
go to Russian. They are right at their home. This is the state of Ukraine that has stayed on
our Russian land for 23 years now. It's time for the quasi-state of Ukraine to leave.
BorninUkraine -> puttypants 1 May 2015 15:16
I was born in Lvov in Western Ukraine, I grew up in Lugansk in the East, I have friends and
relatives all over, and I know exactly what is going on in Ukraine.
Ukraine in 1991 was extremely heterogenous. In the area West of Carpatian mountains people
speak Hungarian, Romanian, and Rusine (a form of old Russian, spoken in Kievan Rus).
Galichina and Volynia in the West speak several dialects of Ukrainian. Many in Central Ukraine
speak what is considered literary Ukrainian. In the South and East (historic Novorossia) and
in Kharkov region (historic Slobozhanschina) the majority speaks "surgik", a mix of pidgin-Ukrainian
and pidgin-Russian. Finally, in Crimea people speak Russian, Tatar, and very few speak Ukrainian.
Crimea voted AGAINST Ukraine in 1991 referendum and got a chance to run away in 2014, when Ukraine
committed suicide.
If the leaders of Ukraine had any brains and loved their country, they would have followed
the example of Switzerland and Singapore, having many official languages. However, all Ukrainian
rulers from day one were thieves and idiots. They made Ukrainian the only official language
and pushed it everywhere, so that while you could get school education in several languages,
all colleges operated only in Ukrainian, putting people who spoke other languages at a disadvantage.
That idiotic policy started this whole mess, which with a bit of US money, prodding, and
now arms became a civil war. Not to mention that Galichina is the place that fought against
Russia in WWI (as part of Austro-Hungarian empire, siding with Kaiser) and WWII (siding with
Hitler). They supplied the troops that under Hitler's command murdered thousands of civilians
in Ukraine, Poland, Belarus, and Slovakia. Bandera, Shuhevich, and veterans of Waffen SS division
Galichina, who are considered heroes by current puppets in Kiev, voluntarily served Hitler.
80% of Ukrainian population hates these Bandera worshippers, so when external forces push
them to power, it creates trouble. Personally I hate them for giving a bad name to everything
Ukrainian.
BorninUkraine -> AbsolutelyFapulous 1 May 2015 15:10
Russia failed to send its troops to Donbass, and Ukrainian army killed thousands of civilians
there, including women, children, elderly, and disabled veterans.
Or is saying things explicitly beyond your pay grade?
RonBuckley -> AbsolutelyFapulous 1 May 2015 15:06
To Odessa Kiev sent a few hundred pro-Nazi thugs - 42 died.
To Donetsk and Luhansk Kiev sent a few thousand pro-Nazi thugs plus the entire Ukrainian army
- 6000 died.
Get it now?
Goodthanx -> Anette Mor 1 May 2015 15:04
For me it was the silence... You are right! Seeing what i was seeing, with no commentry to
convince me either way.. How could the worlds media be so silent?
Then with MH, it was the complete opposite!! Immediately and with no investigation, MSM could
not shut up about who they thought was responsible!!
Both fail the logic test miserably. But try explaining common sense to those that haven't
any.
Goodthanx -> Chirographer 1 May 2015 14:48
Those protesters were Ukrainian Pro Federalists! Not one Russian amongst them!
Anette Mor -> Goodthanx 1 May 2015 14:46
Good for you. It is impossible to hide truth with current state of technology. Only not showning.
Any life reporting give the footage adding facts one by one and crwating a true picture eventually.
Even this rather bias article contributes to true story because the lie in it sticks out of
logic for anybody we is able to think for themselves.
PlatonKuzin -> ID5868758 1 May 2015 14:42
Western media are not simply mirror images of the fascist governments they support. Acting
the way they do, these media prepare the public for a future war.
Anette Mor -> vr13vr 1 May 2015 14:41
It is poinless to try to install fear in these people. Need to look at the history of people's
wars in Russia. Since 17 century they were able to resist occupation and unwanted rulers by
people war. There wpuld not be a win against Napoleon and Hitler without people rising and forming
resistance. Same in Odessa now. Just a matter of time.
BunglyPete -> Chirographer 1 May 2015 14:35
The explanation is very simple. Right Sector had free reign to terrorise pro Russians, so
he took action. Kiev choose not to punish Right Sector both then and now. He said this in the
same interview you constantly reference.
Now can you explain why you think it is acceptable for Right Sector to terrorise the Donbass?
If Strelkov wasnt allowed to defend them, who was?
Anette Mor -> Jeff1000 1 May 2015 14:34
Not sure why you call them pro-Russians. Odessa is multi-national city. These who were massacred
are simply local people who disagreed with the violent coup which put to power by the west.
Does it make them "pro-russian" and justify thier killing? Surely these who want own country
to be coverned by own elected officials could not be pro- another country. If they trust Russian
government care for them more then thier own coup, that only says how bad the coup rule is.
Goodthanx -> Chirographer 1 May 2015 14:24
Forget about the Russian government. The idea is justice for the victims and punishment for
the perpetrators. Is it the ambition of the UN to be percieved as bias as so called Russuan
investigators would be?
Kaiama -> truk10 1 May 2015 14:22
FFS there are enough links and analysis to demonstrate that pro-Kiev forces inflicted a massacre
of civilians here. I don't see any pro-Ukraine links to additional information but an overwhelming
deluge of links supporting the unvoiced version of events.
ID5868758 1 May 2015 14:18
Our western media have really become mirror images of the fascist governments they support.
By publishing such whitewashing attempts as this, they only enable more such behavior in the
future, behavior that leads to the deaths of more innocents, more civilians whose only desire
is to live in freedom and peace.
Kaiama 1 May 2015 14:13
It is so depressing when there is far more information in the comments section than in the
article itself. It seems the new editor is keen to continue the traditions of her predecessor.
Goodthanx -> Chirographer 1 May 2015 14:09
What kind of a teenage girl carries in their backpack petrol, empty bottles, rags and whatever
else is required to make Molotov cocktails? What a coincidence... there is a group of them!!
As for Right Sector? Chartered buses transported Right Sector militia which arrived early in
the day. These were the people communicating with police from the start.
MaoChengJi -> MaoChengJi 1 May 2015 13:51
Speaking of the media... I've been reading this Odessa news website: http://timer-odessa.net/
, and it has been relatively informative (as much as Ukro-sites can be, these days). And today
suddenly it's gone dark: "there is no Web site at this address".
Does anyone know if it's gone for good? I really hope those who were running it are safe...
Jean-François Guilbo -> truk10 1 May 2015 13:51
So you didn't watch the video link in my comment did you?
If you just take this article for granted to know on which side the Odessa police was, you won't
learn much on what happened...
Seems like the officier on the picture would have been recognised as a colonel from Odessa police,
watch this link:
And from these two links, these armed guys not afraid to shoot from the crowd, could have been
agents provocateur...
BorninUkraine -> IrishFred 1 May 2015 13:47
Are you saying that Bandera, Shuhevich, and veterans of Waffen SS division Galichina never
existed? If so, please state it explicitly.
Are you saying all of the above did not serve Hitler voluntarily? If so, please state it
explicitly.
Are you saying all of the above are not guilty of mass murder and other crimes against humanity?
If so, please state it explicitly.
Are you saying that people who are murdering their opponents, politicians and journalists,
are not Nazis? If so, please state it explicitly.
As to Crimea, if you knew any history, you'd know that it was illegally annexed by Ukraine
in 1991. Here is history 101, not necessarily for you, but for those who actually want to know
the truth.
Russia deployed its troops in Crimea, and nobody was killed there. Russia failed to send
its troops to Donbass, and Ukrainian army killed thousands of civilians there, including women,
children, elderly, and disabled veterans.
As many Ukrainians joke now, "Crimeans are traitors: they ran away without us".
Your next argument?
Jeff1000 -> Chirographer 1 May 2015 13:45
Don't display callous and willful ignorance and call it even-handedness. The Guardian's "credible"
account offers no sources, agrees with none of the available pictorial or video evidence and
is rampant apologism.
I posted videos - including raw CCTV footage of the starting of the fire, further up the page.
BunglyPete -> coffeegirl 1 May 2015 13:40
I saw that guy's post it was fantastic, very well sourced and thorough. The comments on here
were a different kettle of fish entirely back then.
Jeff1000 1 May 2015 13:39
The attempt to re-package this event as some awful conglomeration of circumstances spurred
on by the cruelty of fate is sickening. We reduce the death of at least 50 people down so that
calling it a "massacre" becomes needlessly emotive. We casually refer to the pro-Ukrainians
as "football fans" to make it seem innocent - when Ukrainian football fans known as "Ultras"
are famours for 2 things: Being neo-Nazis, and being violent thugs.
Look at this video especially: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAEcceedzCU
It's really very simple - candid videos at the time made it clear.
1. Pro-Russian groups were attacked by Ukrainian "ultras". They sought shelter in the Trade
Union building.
2. The building was set on fire when the Ultras threw molotovs through the windows. The doors
were barred.
3. People attempting to climb out of the windows were shot at, if they jumped they were beaten
as they lay on the ground.
4. Ukrainian nationalists deliberately blockaded the streets to inhibit the progress of ambulances
and fire engines.
Only a week after The Odessa Massacre an american CiFer, ex-marine, has gathered links, sieved
through hours and hours of video - he, practically, has done what the journos were supposed
to do, - to prove the Guardian, BBC and the rest were trying hard to whitewash the atrocity.
Check his posts: Additional proof that the BBC and the mainstream Western press lied when they
said both sides threw the molotov's.
I looked for 5 hours searching for one video that showed anyone in the building throwing
a molotov cocktail as the BBC first reported and the rest of the MSM went along with. I could
not find a single one. They claimed a person named Sergei (what are the odds of that) told them
a person threw the molotov inside the building and didn't realize the window was closed. This
is absolutely ludicrous and an example of the pathetic reporting that passes for "news" these
days.
I did find the video of the third floor fire starting. It is at the following link and runs
consecutively. You'll notice at exactly the 2 minute mark the camera zooms in on the window
where the fire begins. You'll also notice that at the 2:02 mark you see an additional molotov
cocktail just miss the window. This is strong evidence that the window was being targeted by
individuals on the ground. Prior to this fire starting there is no other fire on the third floor,
therefore this is most likely the cause of the third floor fire and lends credence to the fact
that the violent youth below burned those people alive.
And not just "Russian state-owned media" - also most of the Russian privately owned media,
and most of the world media (and even some of the western media).
I believe I saw a chinadaily calling it Kristallnacht.
Jeff1000 1 May 2015 13:16
Russian state-owned media characterised the day's events as a "massacre" planned by "fascists"
in Kiev, a narrative that has gained widespread traction.
Mostly because it's a pretty fitting description of what happened.
Its not hard truk. Those red armbands that the so called pro Russian provocatores wore? Are
actually the same red armbands Right sector militia was wearing during the most violent Maidan
clashes. You can identify some of the same protagonists wearing the same armband in both Odesaa
and Maidan!
vr13vr -> truk10 1 May 2015 13:07
Idiot. Nobody is laughing. Especially when 50 people died. Look at this video and see how
Ukrainians entered the supposedly "heavily defended" building. You will see them operating inside,
you will see them existing the building after it started burning from inside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxcB0PI4ZLg
Look at 23 min mark - they are entering the building with no resistance.
24:20. A group of Ukrainians go upstairs, there is no fire yet.
26:20 Some are coming returning. The stairs are being set on fire.
27:50 A Ukrainian is firing gun at those trying to jump from the building.
Yes, Ukrainians overrun the building, including the roof. The photographs suggest that people
in the building where set afire while still alive.
You must be an idiot to say someone is laughing at this.
castorsia -> truk10 1 May 2015 13:02
No. They burned them. Check the photographic evidence.
PlatonKuzin -> vr13vr 1 May 2015 12:58
Armored vehicles and special riot forces were brought today in Odessa to prevent possible
unrest there.
WHYNOPASSWORD12 -> Havingalavrov 1 May 2015 12:56
Plenty of witnesses point out that these were pro-ukraine provacateurs sent up to stir up
trouble. They are wearing the same red armbands worn by a group who started the skirmishes earlier
in the town centre. They were part of the group bussed-in under the guise of football supporters.
MaoChengJi -> truk10 1 May 2015 12:55
Hi turk10,
I understand your confusion. Luckily, Mr. Christof Lehmann investigated it all for you. Seek
and ye shall find. Use google.
vr13vr 1 May 2015 12:50
Sure, Kiev views burning alive almost 50 people as a "victory." They even allowed to install
fear in the city. Since then the city is totally subdued, people would be afraid to even discuss
the events or think of any peaceful opposition as they are aware of the potential response from
Kiev's supporters.
Nice job Guardian trying to whitewash the events and justify the cold blooded murder by some
street fights elsewhere in the city, events that were taking place all over the country those
days.
Jeremn -> oleteo 1 May 2015 12:40
No greater cynics than western politicians, who certainly don't mourn this heavenly half-hundred,
or come to lay flowers at the scene of their death.
No greater cynic than the Czech envoy, Bartuska, who said:
"Groups of civilians - including men, women and children - seize government buildings. Within
two days they get arms and after that women and children disappear, leaving only the armed men.
If they [independence supporters] are quickly resisted, as it was done in Odessa where they
were simply burned to death, or Dnepropetrovsk, where they were simply killed and buried by
the side of the road, everything will be calm. If this is not done, then there will be war.
That's all."
ID5868758 1 May 2015 12:18
Another despicable attempt to paint a false equivalency, to assign blame for this massacre,
for their own deaths, on those who perished. Take the Molotov cocktail throwing, for instance.
I watched the videos of those Molotov cocktails being made, pretty little pro-Ukrainian girls
sitting on the ground with their assembly line all set up, smiling as they made those instruments
of death and handed them out, now just where did those supplies come from, who thought to bring
bottles and rags and fuel to an event if it was innocent in nature?
And where would those innocent victims chased inside the building get Molotov cocktails to
throw from inside the building, when they were interested only in escaping the smoke and flames,
saving their own lives? The narrative doesn't match the evidence, but neither does it pass the
smell test, pretty SOP for western media reporting on Ukraine.
StillHaveLinkYouHate -> MaoChengJi 1 May 2015 11:56
The difference is that Nazis want to murder people for the accident of how they were born.
Extreme natinalists will want to murder anybody who does not behave in the perverted way they
feel a patriot should.
That is the difference. Praviy sektor are nazis, incidentally.
It makes the point already made below in this comment thread:
I invite people to imagine how the British media would have reported this massacre if
roles had been reversed and if it had been Maidan supporters who were burnt alive in the
Trade Union building with an anti Maidan crowd filmed throwing Molotov cocktails into the
building whilst baying for blood outside.
Indeed.
GreatCthulhu -> Metronome151 1 May 2015 11:45
Many of them not locals.
I thought the article was pretty clear that everyone on both sides were local. I speak, of
course s an Irish man who doesn't regard hating Russians/ people who identify with Russia who
aren't Russians but live nearby as a default position before beginning any debate.
There are a small minority of Irish people, living in the Republic (I am not referring to the
northern Unionist Community here), who identify with Britain often to the point that they express
regret that Ireland ever left the UK. I don't agree with them, but I would not set them on fire
in a building. For that matter, it is ARGUABLE (I am not saying whether that argument is right
or wrong- just that you could put forward the thesis) that the N.I state-let is something of
an Irish Donbass. No justification for Ireland shelling the crap out of it though... at all...
that sort of stuff is kind of regarded as savagery here these days.
MaoChengJi -> truk10 1 May 2015 11:43
Hi turk10,
what's wrong with calling them 'nazis'? The guardian piece identifies them as "extreme nationalists",
and isn't it the same thing as 'neo-nazis' or 'nazis'?
Is there some nuance I'm missing here? What would you call them?
BorninUkraine -> truk10 1 May 2015 11:38
So you object to calling a spade a spade? Typical pro-US position in Ukrainian crisis. What
do you call the insignia of, for example, Azov battalion (see here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion ). If that's not Nazi insignia, I don't know
what is.
I am simply saying that those who organized Odessa massacre, then Mariupol massacre, then fueled
the war in Donbass, including Poroshenko, Turchinov, Yats, etc, are Nazis.
The simple reason for that conclusion is, as the saying goes, "if it looks like a duck, if
it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, it is a duck". If you prefer Christian version
of the same thing, see Mathew 7:16 "you will know them by their fruits".
To sum it up, if someone behaves like a Nazi, s/he is a Nazi. Is this clear enough?
EugeneGur 1 May 2015 11:28
A pro-Russia activist aims a pistol at supporters of the Kiev government during clashes
in the streets of Odessa, 2 May 2014.
How do we know that the guy is pro-Russian? Does the picture show what he is aiming at? Does
he have a sign on his forehead burned in saying "I am pro-Russian and I am going to shoot that
pro-Ukrainian bastard"? No, he does not. We are expected to assume that because the caption
says so - but captions to pictures aren't evidence. Anybody can put any caption to any picture,
and it's been done many a time.
The head of the local pro-Ukraine Maidan self-defence group, Dmitry Gumenyuk, recalled
the effect of the homemade grenades. . . they threw a grenade and it exploded under his
bullet-proof vest and four nails entered his lungs," he said.
Such peaceful people - going for a nice in the park walk in bullet-proof vests. They were
going to destroy that camp and not on the agreement with the activists in that camp, as Guardian
states (complete BS) but violently, which they did. Even if they were attacked, what did women
in the camp have to do with it?
Come on, people, even in the face of such a tragedy, is it so absolutely necessary to hush up
the truth all the time?
BorninUkraine -> caliento 1 May 2015 11:24
There is a Ukrainian joke. Russians ask:
- If you believe that Russia annexed Crimea, why don't you fight for it?
- We aren't that stupid, there are Russian troops there.
- But you say there are Russian troops in Donbass?
- That's what we say, but in Crimea there really are Russian troops.
castorsia 1 May 2015 11:21
The Guardian continues to misrepresent the Odesa massacre by reporting claims by the official
Ukrainian investigation and the Odesa governor created May 2 group that the deadly fire started
when both sided were throwing Molotov cocktails. The videos and other evidence showing that
the fire started after the Molotov cocktails and tires were thrown by the attackers are deliberately
omitted.
Open question to you all: What would be in the headlines if scores of "Pro-Ukrainian activists
" were being burned, hacked, mauled, shot and raperd to death by Donetsk rebels or their supporters?
BorninUkraine 1 May 2015 11:20
There are lies, there are blatant lies, and then there are reports of Western media.
Sad, but true.
In this article Howard Amos pretends that he believes that both sides were to blame for the
mass murder of anti-fascists by pro-Maidan thugs in Odessa on May 2, 2014. That's like saying
that both the Nazis and the inmates of concentration camps were equally guilty.
This lie is so outrageous, and so far from reality, that it does not even deserve an argument.
The readers who want to know the truth can do Google search using "Odessa massacre 2014" and
read for themselves.
The lie that the Guardian repeats after Kyiv "government" looks even less plausible now,
as Odessa massacre was followed by the massacre of civilians by Nazi thugs in Mariupol a few
days later (change Odessa to Mariupol in your Google search), and the murder of thousands of
civilians in Donbass, including women, children, elderly, and disabled veterans, by the Ukrainian
army and Nazi battalions.
I grew up in the USSR, but I have never read a lie so obvious and outrageous in the Soviet
media. Congratulations on a new low!
coffeegirl aussiereader4 1 May 2015 11:11
Sounds like you know little about what happened in Odessa.
The best compilation of any available material was done on May 8, 2014 by our fellow CiFer US
ex-marine griffin alabama:
You like to cite Strelkov, don't you, when it suits your purpose? If he is such an authority
for you, why don't you cite everything he says? Among other things, he said that Maidan was
not a popular uprising but a pure decoration for the coup organized by the right wing groups
and funded by oligarchs together with the foreign agents? You can watch this here
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2015/02/must-watch-strelkov-vs-starikov-debate.html
greatwhitehunter caliento 1 May 2015 11:08
you would no if you followed events the idea of peace keepers was supported by Russia, the
separatists and a good many other countries right from the start of the conflict . It was not
however supported by the kiev government or the US. Peace keepers were offered to Ukraine right
up until 4 days before the Minsk agreement.
Kiev's solution has always been a military one and still is. There belated cries for
peace keepers only came after getting an a*& kicking.
kiev signed the minsk agreement which requires them to deal with the issues peace keepers would
be a way out for them. Usa by their actions does not support the Minsk agreement.
Poroshenko,s idea of peace keepers was a few kiev friendly states to send weapons and troups
to bolster their ranks.
An offer was made via the UN security council for a peace keeping force that included china
and new zealand and poroshenko stated that ukraine didn't needed china and new Zealand's help,
as it turned out they did.
EugeneGur 1 May 2015 10:54
Oh Guardian, Guardian. Both are to blame, heroism on both sides - in short, they burned themselves.
We've heard that before. But then the article goes on and tells you that the movement they for
some reason call "pro-Russian", although its not pro-Russia as much as it's anti-fascist, is
essentially eliminated, with all leaders in jail or in exile. In contrast,
None of the pro-Ukraine activists have been put on trial
Kind of tells you what actually happened, doesn't it?
Activists from both sides admit that the port city remains divided into two approximately
matched camps
No, they aren't matched. The Odessa residents are mostly anti-Maidan. The city is flooded
with newcomers from the western Ukraine, and they the main supporters of Kiev. Otherwise, why
would Kiev deploy half of the army to Odessa before the May holidays?
Recently Poroshenko who had the temerity to visit Odessa on the anniversary of the city'
liberation from occupation was met with shouts "Fascism will not pass".
So much for "matched camps". Of course, if you put everybody of the opposing view in jail
of kill them, you can sort of achieve a "match".
Elena Hodgson 1 May 2015 10:50
This was a massacre. Period.
Hanwell123 1 May 2015 10:48
Ukraine is a gangster state where if activists aren't arrested then they are shot; 6 prominent
figures shot this year alone. No arrests. It's supported to the hilt by the EU who shell out
enormous sums to keep it from bankruptcy.
nnedjo 1 May 2015 08:42
This is the news from the Ukraine crisis Media Center:
Odesa, April 27, 2015 – Vitaly Kozhukhar, coordinator of the Self-Defense of Odesa, Varvara
Chernoivanenko, a spokesman for the Right Sector of Odesa held a briefing on the topic:
"May 2 this year in Odesa. How a single headquarters of the patriotic forces preparing to
hold a day of mourning for those killed in the city"...
Varvara Chernoivanenko said that for all patriots of Ukraine is important that May 2 was
peaceful day. Patriotic forces create patrols that will keep order in the area of Cathedral
Square, which will host a memorial meeting for all those, who died on 2 May. They will make
every effort to ensure peace and order. Already, the city has operational headquarters of
the patriotic forces. Their representatives will stop all provocations. At the same time,
according to Varvara Chernoivanenko, on their part will not be any aggression.
Thus, the "patriotic forces", which I suppose are responsible for burning people alive in
the building of Trade Unions in Odessa, will now protect those who survived and who should hold
the memorial service for their relatives and friends, victims of Odessa massacre. The only question
is, from whom they should protect them?
I mean, this lady from the Right Sector boasts that they organized patrols of its members all
over the city. Well, you can bet that in these patrols will be at least some, if not all of
those who threw Molotov cocktails at the building of trade unions, and beaten with clubs or
even shot at those who tried to escape from the fire. Because, as this article shows, none of
them has even been charged, let alone be convicted of that crime.
So, can we then conclude that the executioners of the victims of the Odessa massacre will now
provide protection to those who mourn the victims, which is a paradox of its kind.
And how these patrols of "patriotic forces" operating in reality, you can watch in this video,
which was filmed during the visit of Poroshenko in Odessa, on the day of the celebration of
liberation of the city in WWII, 10 April. At the beginning of the film, the guys from "Patriotic
patrol" argue with a group of anti-fascists, demanding that they reject one of their flag. And
then at one point (0:31 of the video), one of these guys from patrol says:
"Didn't burn enough of you, eh?"
MaoChengJi 1 May 2015 07:45
Ah, of course: both sides are to blame, because before the massacre an extreme nationalist
militant died, under circumstanced unknown (shot in self-defense, perhaps? who knows).
Nice.
a pro-Ukraine member of the extreme nationalist organisation
Even nicer: 'pro-Ukraine extreme nationalist'. Pro-Ukraine? Which kind of Ukraine?
I find that one of the most misleading elements in these west-interpreted stories is "pro-Russian"
and "pro-Ukrainian" labels.
Truth? One doesn't look for truth in the Graun - the house journal of European Post-Democracy.
The truth will occasionally slip out of one of the Post-Democrats - the Czech diplomat Vaclav
Bartuska, for example:
"Groups of civilians - including men, women and children - seize government buildings. Within
two days they get arms and after that women and children disappear, leaving only the armed men.
If they are quickly resisted, as it was done in Odessa where they were simply burned to death,
or Dnepropetrovsk, where they were simply killed and buried by the side of the road, everything
will be calm. If this is not done, then there will be war. That's all."
The journos of the Graun who want to carry on attending their dinner parties and pretend to
be liberal and decent folk have better sense than to state matters truthfully.
6i9vern 1 May 2015 07:43
Truth? One doesn't look for truth in the Graun - the house journal of European Post-Democracy.
The truth will occasionally slip out of one of the Post-Democrats - the Czech diplomat Vaclav
Bartuska, for example:
"Groups of civilians - including men, women and children - seize government buildings.
Within two days they get arms and after that women and children disappear, leaving only
the armed men. If they are quickly resisted, as it was done in Odessa where they were simply
burned to death, or Dnepropetrovsk, where they were simply killed and buried by the side
of the road, everything will be calm. If this is not done, then there will be war. That's
all."
The journos of the Graun who want to carry on attending their dinner parties and pretend
to be liberal and decent folk have better sense than to state matters truthfully.
Vladimir Makarenko Celtiberico 1 May 2015 06:20
They took it from Odessa being a symbol of Black Sea and a while ago a Russian poet said:
Chernoe More - Vor na Vore.
Black Sea - a thief by thief.
normankirk 1 May 2015 06:14
This is a shameless attempt to whitewash a massacre.There is plenty of evidence on you tube
Every one has cell phones which can record events as they unfold. This is why the American police
can no longer get away with murder. The European parliament held a hearing in Brussels to hear
the Odessa survivors. there was a concerted effort from Maidan activists from Kiev to shut down
the survivors testimony. A Europarliament deputy from the Czech republic Miroslav said "This
is simply shocking. this is an evidence of fascism not being disappeared from European countries.He
blamed Parubiy, co founder of far right Svoboda party and Kolomoisky, paymaster of neo nazi
militia for the massacre at Odessa. All this is recorded. Ignorance can no longer be a defence
ID075732 1 May 2015 05:53
The US Holocaust Memorial Museum quotes the following, famous text by Pastor Martin Niemoller
about the cowardice of intellectuals following the Nazis':
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.
It's time for the MSM to realise that the same is happening Ukraine - for which the Odessa massacre
is a warning. It's time they stopped playing intellectual games to prop up what is a fascist
regime in Kiev.
BunglyPete 1 May 2015 05:48
Just in case those involved in the production of this article do read or hear of these comments..
Do you not realise we have Google and Youtube now? You can verify anything within a few keystrokes.
You do not need to rely on the evil Russian media, you can watch the eyewitness videos yourself.
I mean this seriously, if you are going to attempt to prove something then at least realise
that you will need to go to more lengths to do so. In the context of the greater 'propaganda
war', articles like this are nonsensical, as you merely serve to discredit yourself, and encourage
people to move to alternative media sources.
If you want to discredit the Russian narrative then discredit it, don't write things that discredit
your own narrative.
You don't need to bill me for this advice it comes for free.
SHappens 1 May 2015 04:30
Many allege that investigators are dragging their feet for political reasons, possibly
to cover up high-level complicity.
At the beginning of the unrest, the most virulent reaction came from supporters of Ukrainian
football clubs. But they were soon joined by a well-organized gang of self-defense that came
in a column of about 100 people dressed in military fatigues and relatively well equipped.
Members of the Ukrainian security forces withdrew from the scene allowing the rightwing radicals
to block the exits and firebomb the building forcing many to jump from open windows to the pavement
below where they died on impact. The few who survived the fall were savagely beaten with clubs
and chains by the nearly 300 extremist thugs who had gathered on the street.
Street fighting thugs don't typically waste their time barricading exits unless it is part of
a plan, a plan to create a big-enough incident to change the narrative of what is going on in
the country. None of the victims of the tragedy were armed.
This isn't the first time the US has tried to pull something like this off. In 2006, the Bush
administration used a similar tactic in Iraq. That's when Samarra's Golden Dome Mosque was blown
up in an effort to change the public's perception of the conflict from an armed struggle against
foreign occupation into a civil war.
So who authorized the attack on Odessa's Trade Unions House? Could it be that the Ukrainian
Security Services were supervised by some external mercenaries just like the Oluja blitzkrieg
in Croatia back in 1995 when the Croatian National Guard was then supervised and managed by
MPRI, an US SMP based in Virginia? Because in Kiev, dozens of specialists from the US CIA and
FBI were advising the Ukrainian government helping Kiev end the rebellion in the east of Ukraine
and set up a functioning security structure. (report, AFP).
Whatever and if ever an inquiry succeeds, fact is that the government in Kiev bears direct responsibility,
and is complicit in these criminal activities for they allowed extremists and radicals to burn
unarmed people alive.
warehouse_guy 1 May 2015 04:30
Tatyana Gerasimova also says the case is getting killed off in court, put that on your headline.
alpykog 1 May 2015 04:30
Nothing unusual about police, army and terrorists working together. I remember the British
army in Belfast actually running joint patrols in broad daylight with Loyalist terrorists through
Catholic areas and that was the tip of the iceberg. Try not to feel "holier than thou"
when you read this stuff.
ID075732 1 May 2015 04:23
Rumours swirl of a higher death toll, the use of poisonous gas and the body of a pregnant
woman garrotted by pro-Ukraine fanatics.
Clearly the author has not watched the footage filmed inside the building after the massacre
- this was no "swirling rumour". Clearly the footage wasn't faked either. It showed may murdered
victims with burns to their heads and arms with bodies and clothes unscorched, not caused by
the actual fire.
Also those that have studied the many videos available of the unfolding events saw a much more
an orchestrated attack on the Trade Union building with fires breaking out in rooms further
away from the seat of the original fire. Also two masked figures on the roof before the fire
started in the building.
Reports that the exits were blocked and a number of masked pro-Ukrainians were inside the building
not just on the roof, don't figure in this report.
ploughmanlunch 1 May 2015 03:41
'While many pro-Ukraine activists helped the rescue effort, others punched, kicked and
beat those who fled the burning building. "There was blood and water all over the courtyard,"
said Elena, who escaped via a fireman's ladder. "They were shouting 'on your knees, on your
knees'."
This sums up, in my opinion, the whole sordid mess that is present Ukraine.
The majority of ordinary Ukrainians living under the authority of Kiev will broadly agree
with their Government, but are civilised and are probably horrified by the violence perpetrated
by both sides in the war.
Unfortunately, however, there is a significant minority of extremist Ukrainian Nationalists
that readily resort to violence and intimidation and revile Russian speaking 'separatists' in
the Donbas ( and elsewhere ).
Even more unfortunately, the fanatical far right have a disproportionate influence in the
Kiev Parliament and even the Government; a fact conveniently overlooked by the incredibly indulgent
Western powers. The present Kiev regime is blatantly anti-democratic and lacks any humanitarian
concern for the desperate plight of citizens still living in Donbas, ( unpaid pensions, economic
and humanitarian blockade ).
This crisis still has a long way to go, and I believe has not yet reached it's nadir. A brighter
future for all the people of Ukraine will require unbiased and honest involvement of the great
powers, East and West.
Geo kosmopolitenko 1 May 2015 03:22
Some spin doctors in Washington would sarcastically smile if they ever read this sadly tragic
article.
Kiselev 1 May 2015 03:20
Symbol of separated Ukrainian society...
Whatever western Ukrainians told us.
In other words Ukraine is cooked for dinner by Western banks and local kleptocrats and
economically clueless nationalists like Yutshchenko and Yatsenyuk ...
Notable quotes:
"... "speedy resolution" ..."
"... "without any principal debt reductions," ..."
"... "provides Ukraine with the necessary financial liquidity support," ..."
"... Meanwhile, Ukraine has to reach an agreement with creditors by the end of May to save $15.3 billion over 4 years as a condition for receiving the next tranche of a $17.5 billion International Monetary Fund loan which comes in exchange for economic, budget and monetary reforms in the country. ..."
"... "This is how restructuring negotiations always start, with unrealistic proposals. For sure, the creditors will try to achieve a deal with no principal reduction, but realistically it is not viable, ..."
"... "Ukraine's debt-to-GDP is much too high and the economy is shrinking," ..."
"... "Now it's official that major bondholders will be resisting a haircut," ..."
"... "But frankly speaking, it might be very, very difficult to push through a 'no haircut' idea, given the IMF's target." ..."
A committee of Ukraine's private creditors that hold about $10 billion in Ukrainian bonds is against
any write-downs in its debt-restructuring deal. The bondholders' terms jeopardize Ukraine's bailout
package from the IMF.
Ukraine's creditors are expecting a "speedy resolution" to negotiations
"without any principal debt reductions," the committee said in a statement released by Ukraine's
biggest bondholder Blackstone Group, Bloomberg
reported Friday. The group was working on a plan that "provides Ukraine with the necessary
financial liquidity support," according to the statement.
Ukraine has to pay about $10 billion to service its debt this year, including corporate and sovereign
loans and bonds. The total debt of Ukraine is currently estimated at $50 billion. Public sector debt
rose to 71 percent of Ukraine's gross domestic product, and is due to rise to 94 percent of GDP in
2015, according to the National Bank of Ukraine.
Meanwhile, Ukraine has to reach an agreement with creditors by the end of May to save $15.3 billion
over 4 years as a condition for receiving the next tranche of a $17.5 billion International Monetary
Fund loan which comes in exchange for economic, budget and monetary reforms in the country. A debt-to-gross
domestic product ratio of below 71 percent by 2020; and the budget's gross financing needs at an
average of 10 percent of GDP from 2019 to 2025 are also among the restructuring demands from the
IMF.
"This is how restructuring negotiations always start, with unrealistic proposals. For sure,
the creditors will try to achieve a deal with no principal reduction, but realistically it is not
viable," Michael Ganske, who helps manage $6 billion as head of emerging markets at Rogge Global
Partners in London, told Bloomberg.
"Ukraine's debt-to-GDP is much too high and the economy is shrinking," Ganske added.
Russia is Ukraine's second-biggest
creditor as
it holds a $3 billion Eurobond issued in December 2013 with a maturity in December 2015. Moscow is
not going to demand early repayment of the loan, despite the fact that one of the contract's conditions
was violated as Ukraine's national debt exceeded 60 percent of the GDP, according to RIA Novosti.
Financial dilemma
Meanwhile, Ukraine is seeking to restructure at least $21.7 billion of its public debt. The country's
central bank reserves fell dangerously below $5.6 billion in February, and the national currency,
the hryvnia, has lost more than half of its value in the past six months and emerged as the worst
performing currency in 2014. Ukraine has thus been forced into negotiations with the bondholders.
The weakening currency has led to massive inflation, which has reached 272 percent last year by
some estimates. Officially it was 34.5 percent in annual terms as of February and is expected to
reach 30 percent for the whole of 2015. Ukraine also has outstanding Russian energy debts now standing
at about $2 billion that it must pay if it wants to continue receiving natural gas.
In return for the IMF funds, Ukraine has embarked on
tough economic
reforms, which include cutting pensions, raising the retirement age, trimming the state budget, and
getting rid of wasteful gas subsidies.
"Now it's official that major bondholders will be resisting a haircut," Giuliano Palumbo,
a money manager who helps oversee $3 billion in emerging-market debt for Arca SGR in Milan, including
Ukrainian bonds, told Bloomberg. "But frankly speaking, it might be very, very difficult to push
through a 'no haircut' idea, given the IMF's target."
The term "fascism" was initially defined as a local phenomenon - the regime of Italian dictator
Benito Mussolini. Later, the term changed its meaning and has become synonymous with Nazism (national
socialism) of the Third Reich. During 1950-1990-Western political science began to call fascism any
repressive regime and introduced the term "totalitarianism". This was done in order to combine Nazism
and communism, those two social phenomenon were ideologically polar and has had a different social
base despite using similar cruel methods.--[ I do not see much difference
in enslavement via Gulag with ensavement via decration of undermench -- NNB] In
one case, the the driving force was large industrialists and the middle class, in another - mostly
the urban poor and part of intelligencia, especially Jewish intelligencia.
The theory of binary totalitarianism has no serious scientific status. The term "fascism" has
now been returned to its historical meaning. It is a synonym of racism and all of its varieties -
crops-racism (the idea of cultural superiority), the social racism (the idea of social inequality
as the nature of this division of people into masters and slaves), etc.
Usually researchers try to distill the signs of fascism. For example, the Italian philosopher
Umberto Eco counted 14. But this approach only blurs the subject. The myth of superiority is a key
symptom. The rest is optional. Additional definitions are generated by the desire to "attach" to
fascism more than that.
For example, "nationalism". Normal people are proud of their nation and its culture, but do not
seek to destroy other peoples. This is the difference between nationalism and Nazism.
Or "traditionalism". If fascism were based in the traditions of the peoples, then some nations
would have dwelt for centuries in the fascist state of fever. Tradition is the enemy of the "voice
of blood", and there is no logic of exclusion of other people in traditions, while fascism lives
this logic . Not coincidentally, he is associated with the Protestant line in Christianity and its
idea of "chosen for salvation". Apart from the idea of exclusiveness, fascism is born with the spirit
of renewal, the destruction of the weak and "unnecessary" for the sake of winning power, novelty
and rationality. I repeat: tradition is the main enemy of fascism.
The idea of a strong state accompanies fascism, but does not define it. The Olympics of 1936,
"Olympia" by Leni Riefenstahl are symbols of a strong statehood. But Hitler's fascism was not
defined by the Olympics, but by the Nuremberg racial laws, summary execution of Slavs, Jews and Gypsies,
the plans of the colonization of the Eastern territories.
Yes, the war of 1941-1945 was the war between two authoritarian States, but only from the German
side it was an ethnic war. There were no intentions to carry out the genocide of "inferior Aryans"
in minds of Soviet soldiers or Joseph Stalin.
In Europe in recent decades, it was fashionable to talk about fascism as "a reaction to Bolshevism".
Indeed, the growing influence of leftist ideas in Europe in the first half of the twentieth century
caused activation of right-wing forces. But the roots of fascism are more ancient then Marxist and
Bolshevik. Fascism arose as a justification for colonial expansion. Hitler didn't invent anything
new. He just moved to the center of Europe bloody colonialist methods of the British, the French,
the Spaniards, and made the destruction of people fast and technically perfect: gas chambers, mass
graves. In a way fascism is application of colonial methods to the part of population of the country,
internal colonization so to speak.
The regime of the 1930-ies in Germany is the legitimate child of the European liberal capitalism.
But this conclusion is seriously injures European sense of identity. That's why this statement is a strict
taboo in the West --[not really, the hypothesis of intrinsic connection
of fascism with European (colonial) culture are pretty common --NNB]. But the truth
eventually comes out. Authors from European left now more frequently touch this connection and try
to develop this hypothesis.
Today we are witnessing a return to archaization of neoliberal society and slide of neoliberalism
into "new barbarism." Hence the reasoning of the European politicians about Ukraine as an "Outpost
of civilization". However, the assertion that Russia "does not meet democratic standards", those
days unlikely will deceive anyone. Euphemisms is a product of distortion of the language, not political
reality. This phrase marks Russia as a "defective" state, inhabited by "inferior" people - "watniks",
"colorado bugs". Neo-fascist model within the framework of liberalism is often built by shifting the boundaries
of tolerance. To some people tolerance applies, to other - no. The protection of the rights of one
group in this case means the destruction of the rights of another.
Political myth about the deep opposition between liberalism and Nazism have always refuted by
independent historians. Today this myth is completely discredited.
There are obvious interplay and close relationship between the two ideas - fascist and liberal
- obviously. They both go back to the idea of natural selection, transferred to human society. In
other words, the strongest must survive at the expense of the weakest. this doctrine is often called
"Social Darwinism". Indeed, the principle of "preservation of the fittest races", transposed into
social sciences, resulted in the adoption of the Nuremberg laws designed to protect the "purity of
race and blood" - the "law of the citizen of the Reich" and "Law on the protection of German blood
and German honor."
The return of fascism is a symptom of a certain historical tendencies. To such radical measures
economic elites resort only for the postponement of the final world crisis. But in the end it is
fascism that might again bring Western societies to the wedge of collapse.
But you have been accused of using your minority stake in oil extraction company Ukrnafta
to block the government's decisions.
It's 100 percent a lie that Kolomoisky didn't pay dividends and that there were problems inside
of the company.
This is a conflict between insiders. Naftogaz owns 51 percent of Ukrnafta, but for many years, they
stole the natural gas Ukrnafta produced. They took our gas into the pipeline and didn't document
it, writing in their books that it's gas from an "unknown" origin – we're talking about 10.5 billion
cubic meters, worth about $4 billion.
The case went all the way up to the high court, and we won everything.
If you were winning in the courts, why start marching into buildings with armed guards?
Last week, while the prime minister and the director of Naftogaz were in Brussels, [Oleksandr]
Pasichnik, who works for deputy [Igor] Yeremeyev, and [Oleksandr] Savchenko made an illegal order,
without any decision of the cabinet of ministers. And with some well-equipped security guys – not
politicians and not special police but private security – they entered Ukrtransnafta and started
making changes. [Oleksandr] Lazorko was locked down in his office; he was a hostage. He called the
police, and they didn't lift a finger, so he called me. And I went over there with four private
security guys.
I recommended Lazorko for this position, and he was in a bad situation, so I knew what I had to
do. They wanted to steal oil resources that were in the company…and when I asked where are the documents
from the cabinet of ministers to be there, they couldn't show me anything.
That didn't go so well for you in the press. So why bring out more-heavily armed guards just a few
days later?
On Sunday night, the deputy security director of Ukrnafta said a group of unknown people, approximately
100, had gathered around Ukrnafta, preparing for something. And there was a TV crew.
I called my personal deputy director and said I need support. The private security unit came – no
battalions, no militias, just a private security company working for Ukrnafta – they came, and workers
started to close the fence.
[Sergei] Leshchenko and Mustafa [Nayyem] saw the support teams and started this scandal that Kolomoisky
is taking over Ukrnafta. But, really now, Kolomoisky shouldn't need to take it over because he's
already part of Ukrnafta! And I can go inside the building -- I'm a member of the board of directors.
Why would I need to take it over?
... ... ...
So, what's next?
I have no future plans in politics. We will calm down the people, we will present the new governor,
we will just say that this is a political change. And we will try to convince them that everything
will be fine.
People need to understand that there is a system of power in the country, and the main thing is
that there is law. It shouldn't depend on who is sitting in that position. There shouldn't be any
idols.
tjm, 3/26/2015 6:53 PM EDT
This is not good news for Hunter Biden -- wonder what Hunter's plan B is. This guy, to put
it politely, was more than a little dodgy, even as Ukraine oligarchs go. He was Hunter's god
father for the board appt Time to send in Joe to "fix" this mess.
I see Karl got 8 upvotes for inquiring why Kolomoisky was only now being regarded as a criminal,
and why his prior actions in Odessa and Donbas did not qualify as criminal behavior. Well said.
My impression is that there are those who are genuine (bad English, bad spelling, sort of
tearful comments) and those who seem to steer the debate, generally written in pretty good English.
From that admittedly brief overview I suspect that the propaganda in that rag will slowly but
surely drift towards Benny being the only culprit who murdered all those in Novorossiya, while
Porky was sadly helpless to stop him.
I may be wrong, but the USA must surely be attempting to rescue some shreds from their disastrous
policies, and Porky rather that Yats and indeed Benny seems to be 'the one' to be saved … but
then, they were never very good at understanding foreigners, and Benny may be capable of overturning
this nice scenario.
Some of the Russian op-eds I am reading make a similar point; that Benny is to be made
the scapegoat, the "עזאזל"
for everything that went wrong in Ukraine.
Some people are even speculating, will MH-17 be put on him too? That would be the true test.
The argument goes:
If it turns out that Ukies dunnit and they simply can't hide the fact any more, then they
will put it on Benny. Who probably did it anyhow.
Personally, I am dubious that will happen, I think they are too invested in "Russkies did
it" scenario, but we shall see.
I agree. The "Benny did it" scenario will be saved against the possibility that public pressure
forces some sort of conclusion to the investigation and under conditions whereby there cannot
be a cover-up. But that's difficult to imagine, the public has a short attention span, and there's
a rich tradition of the-Russians-did-it-and-everybody-knows-it, followed after a paragraph or
so of what they did by "Moscow denies it".
Mind you, that assumes the Russians themselves will be content to have it blamed on them
and will not push hard. RT is their advantage there – an English-speaking venue that actually
has a pretty wide audience and in which they can sneer that after being presented with tons
of evidence the west – pressured by the Americans to cover up Ukraine's crimes – goes into "no
comment" mode. Until now the west has enjoyed a more or less uncontested megaphone to blast
Russia with since Russia is not represented in the English-language spectrum. Now it is, hence
the roaring and screaming about it being a propaganda channel and efforts like those of the
British to shut it down.
i am sure a lot of sane people are happy to get an alternative view in rt… you know rt is
doing something right when western media is labeling rt as a propaganda outlet…
Oh, I think they will have to kill Benny to make a poor but quiet man of him. Think what
a tyrant he is when he's on top – it's not just that he doesn't shrink from violence; he relishes
it, loves to call up rivals on the phone and threaten them and their families and property,
make them piss their pants. But for a few cosmetic touches, Benny is a mafia don. And he's used
to being wealthy and powerful. I wouldn't count him out yet.
Oh, I'd not count him out either, provided it's only Porky and his henchpeople who'd stand
up against him.
But there's their American friend in the background, and they presumably know how to 'de-activate'
Benny with extreme prejudice ("a tragic accident" …) while using their propaganda people to
prepare the ordinary folk for the slow recognition that perhaps this was a good thing after
all.
Something like that.
Oh, and this might be just me neglecting to check out websites – but I've not heard much about
Yats the rat in all this. Has he gone to ground, thanks to his American friends' early warnings?
yats is being kept out of the limelight and saved for another day.. either that or he is
busy grooming someone for his own job as it would be too obvious having him step in after big
mouth nulands comments.. as for benny – i don't like bullies.. i hope he gets taken down.
(1) Porky announced that Benny was resigning from his post "by his own
request" as Gubernator-General of the Dnipropetrovsk region.
(2) This after a face-to-face meeting between the 2 oligarchs in Porky's office.
(3) According to Boris Filator (Rada deputy for the Dnipropetrovsk region, along with Benny,
also resigned Gennady Korban (Benny's right-man hand).
(4) To replace Benny, Porky appointed as Acting Gubernator a man named Valentin Reznichenko.
Reznichenko is already Gubernator of Zaporozhie region, and Porky trusts him implicitly. In
appointing him to that latter post, Porky called him "A man who will not betray the President,
and will not betray Zaporozhie." (with implication that certain other gubernators are not so
loyal)
(5) Reznichenko, in turn, is the best man of a certain oligarch named Boris Lozhkin, who
owns "Ukrainian Media Holdings".
(6) There is some doubt if Benny has in fact vacated his office in Dnipropetrovsk, or maybe
is holing up inside [yalensis: like Bartleby the Scrivener, once again?]
(7) On the website of the Dnipropetrovsk administration [yalensis: which shows a
Bad Gateway Error when I tried to check it],
there is NOTHING about Benny's so-called resignation. However, there is a video from Korban,
who lashes out at Nalivaychenko (head of SBU). Recall that yesterday Nalivaychenko threatened
to prosecute Korban and others for armed insurrection against the government.
(8) Lots more… don't have time… but the gist is that Benny and his people might be prosecuted
for separatism. Benny's biggest crime was that he didn't listen to the polite warnings of the
Americans. He still had a chance to save himself, but he didn't listen. Americans are determined
to clean house in occupied Ukraine. Benny is in the way of that grand project. Hubris gets 'em
every time.
A different POV from Alfa veteran Igor
Shevchuk, in interview to Life News .
Shevchuk is convinced that Poroshenko doesn't have a chance to defeat Kolomoisky. He thinks
that Porky cannot possibly raise up enough of an army to defeat Benny, what with all the desertions
going on. He doesn't think the Americans have enough military weight to tip the balance.
I
don't agree with Shevchuk's analysis, I think he is just trolling to increase the excitement
of watching a cockfight, plus feelings of Schadenfreude against Ukraine.
Still, I generously link his piece, to give hope to those who are rooting for Team Benny!
According to reports of several Ukrainian and Russian newspapers the entire family of Ukrainian
president, Petro Poroshenk have allegedly left Ukraine. The background to this is an ultimatum
of the Right Sector to Porsohenko, that he "would suffer the same fate as Gaddafi" if the situation
in the Debalstsevo cauldron did not improve before the 23 February. At present 6,000 Ukrainian
soldiers and voluntary brigades are surrounded in the cauldron.
Wow indeed. Doesn't say where they went – I'm sure Poroshenko himself will not flee to Russia;
he might bump into the last Ukrainian president to be in the same predicament, and that would
be just awkward. I'm sure I have a sympathetic tear here someplace….nope. I tried, but I was
unable to squeeze one out. That's quite a scoop, this seems to be the day for them, perhaps
indicating that momentum is starting to pick up.
An hilarious counterpoint to Ukraine's woes,
which I found at the same source you cited; Ukraine, upon receiving Saxon armored vehicles from
Dave,
promptly put them on sale. It's an ill wind indeed that blows nobody good.
What did Nudelmann's "Yats" actually say in the interview?
"Российская агрессия на Украине – нападение на мировой порядок и на порядок в Европе.
Все мы хорошо помним советское вторжение на Украину и в Германию. Этого надо избежать, и ни
у кого нет права переписывать итоги Второй мировой войны. Но российский президент, господин
Путин, именно это стремится сделать."
That is in Russian, of course: Yatsenyuk was speaking in one of the Ukrainian dialects that
he prefers to use.
Asked a friend to comment on a very important video and post by
Putnik. The
friend was born in the DDR. His mother tongues are German and Russian. Here is his answer:
"The German translation is not quite correct, because, you see, it was done in a hurry. The
translation of what Yatsenyuk said goes word for word like this:
(starting from 01:05) "Die russische Aggression in der Ukraine – das ist der Angriff auf
die Weltordnung und auf die Ordnung in Europa. Wir können uns alle sehr gut auf den sowjetischen
Anmarsch in die Ukraine und nach Deutschland erinnern. Das muss man vermeiden, und keiner
hat das Recht, die Ergebnisse des Zweiten Weltkrieges neu zu schreiben. Und das versucht der
russische Präsident, Herr Putin, zu machen. (…)"
The thick print marks some bits that sound clumsy, and which rather point out the haste made
in translating or in reading out a translation. These words do not alter the meaning by and
large, but they sound wrong. The word "Anmarsch", for example, means "arrival", but in this
context it is not appropriate; clearly "Einmarsch" (invasion) was meant. So, making grammatical
corrections:
"Die russische Aggression in der Ukraine – das ist der Angriff auf die und Weltordnung
auf die Ordnung in Europa. Wir you uns alle sehr gut an den sowjetischen Einmarsch
in die Ukraine und nach Deutschland erinnern. Das muss man vermeiden, und any hat das Recht,
die Ergebnisse des Zweiten Weltkrieges neu zu schreiben. Und versucht das der russische Präsident,
Herr Putin, zu machen. (…)"
Translating this more competent version of the German translation into Russian:
""Российская агрессия на Украине – нападение на мировой порядок и на порядок в Европе.
Все мы хорошо помним советское вторжение на Украину и в Германию. Этого надо избежать, и ни
у кого нет права переписывать итоги Второй мировой войны. Но российский президент, господин
Путин, именно это стремится сделать".
[Translation of above Russian translated from the German translation of what Yatsenyuk said
in Ukrainian:
Russian aggression in the Ukraine is an attack on the world order and the order in Europe.
We all remember the Soviet invasion of the Ukraine and Germany. This should be avoided. No one
has the right to rewrite the outcome of the Second World War, but the Russian President, Mr
Putin, intends to do just that. – Moscow Exile]
It is clear that for a literal translation into Russian the translation has to be smartened
up.
"Putnik's" translation I consider to be unacceptable. It goes in the right direction, of
course but the idea expressed by it is still quite different.
This does not undo the, forgive me, deeply embedded stupidity of what might have been an
attempt, broadcast by this character, to awaken a kind of hostility towards Russians, who in
the DDR had been really regarded by some as occupiers."
A little later, the friend added some more:
"in one, so to say, satirical piece in the online version of the "Spiegel" there is a comment
about what Yatsenyuk said. (And I quote him there, as I have done above, with corrections.)
The Prime Minister of the Ukraine, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, in "Topics of the Day" (Tagesthemen)
reminded us about Soviet aggression (sic) more than 60 years ago.
"We all remember", Yatsenyuk told the studio presenter Pinar Atalay, "the Soviet invasion
of the Ukraine and Germany".
Indeed, in 1942, Soviet troops ruthlessly moved West. They did not hesitate in pursuing the
army of the democratically elected Chancellor, A. Hitler, including across Ukrainian territory.
Probably a longer route along the southern coast of the Black Sea, bypassing the Ukraine, seemed
too difficult for them.
In the end, the Soviets (sic) broke through the eastern borders of Germany and moved into
German territory, as we all, together with Mr. Yatsenyuk, remember. We don't know whether this
is true as regards Mrs. Atalay. Anyway, she did not raise any issues concerning this small digression
into the history of Russian aggression".
The satire may be a little weak in its criticism of a studio presenter who made no comment
about this obvious stupidity and barely concealed aggression.
And der Spiegel, in spite of all its talk of the "system", is still part of it."
The presenter of the show,
Pinar Atalay, is, by
the way, the daughter of Turkish Gastarbeiter.
Perhaps she really does know fuck all about German/Soviet history?
But I understand that this might pave the way to Kyiv for Putin and his troops
Dmytro Yarosh, leader of Pravy Sector arrived in Lviv in a huge jeep with 'PTN-PNKh' plates and,
as he admitted, with a grenade in his pocket. He said that he was starting his political campaign
journey across Ukraine. However, if the situation on the eastern front changes, he will have to
go back to his deployment position.
In an exclusive brief interview with iPress.ua, Dmytro Yarosh told us what he would do in the
Verkhovna Rada if Pravy Sector got the required percentage, about his relations with the current
government and about the legalization of the Voluntary Ukrainian Corps.
You said that Right Sector is on the verge of getting into the Verkhovna Rada. Do you
have any idea of what you'll be doing in Parliament?
We see our mission in Parliament this way – we'll be the pike that won't allow the carp to fall
asleep, we'll stir up all that parliamentarian mud bog – 70% of which will probably be shuffled
around anyway, we'll do everything to ensure that those people are working for Ukraine, and not
for their own pockets. Of course, we'll propose conceptual ideas to reform the power block of the
government. We'll rely on community support because a small group of people can't do anything without
the people.
If it's a question of bringing several thousand people to the Verkhovna Rada and blocking its
activity in case an important strategic bill is rejected, this will be perfectly realistic. Moreover,
Right Sector has extensive experience in organizing such events. You saw our rally and march on
the Feast of Pokrova. Kyiv has never seen anything like it. We have a lot of human resources that
we can count on and thus push through needed bills.
Right Sector today – these are people with weapons and military experience who now have
political objectives? Do you really understand how to make use of such influence on the government?
We were able to achieve certain goals. They were more tactical. There's the lustration bill,
which we've supported since the Maidan. We managed to talk to certain people in the government and
make sure that this law was passed. That is also our contribution. At present, we're doing all we
can to have the law on weapons approved; it would allow law-abiding citizens to possess and use
firearms. We'll push it through, I'm sure. We have some leverage here. We have a common language
with police and security forces and in the MIA and SBU.
The Volunteer Ukrainian Corps (DUC) has not been legalized like other battalions – do
you want this to happen or are you just a thorn in the government's side?
Perhaps the government doesn't want us around. DUC is a unique military-political movement. The
government is well aware that such a movement may be the beginning of a kind of modern Kozak group,
not the 'sharavary' kind (wide loose pants worn by Kozaks-Ed.), but more active and effective. We
held talks with Turchynov and his administration in March and asked them to give us this status.
They keep blocking it, delaying it, presenting different options that don't suit us.
What are these options?
For example, we'll never be a division of the MIA. Although it could've happened…
What about the Ministry of Defense?
We talked to the General Staff. We came to an agreement that we would work under the Central
Intelligence Administration. But, the next day they completely changed the schedules and gave us
the option to defend a territory that didn't suit our purposes.
How many soldiers in DUC?
About seven thousand men.
You constantly remind everyone that Right Sector will take appropriate action if the
government fails to fulfill certain requirements. What actions do you mean and what is stopping
you from organizing such actions?
I really don't want to destabilize the situation in the country when there's fighting on the
front lines. We're all well aware that I can send several battalions to Kyiv and resolve the government
issue. That's real. Our citizens dislike the government so much that it would be easy for us to
do. But, I also understand that it will pave the way to Kyiv for Putin and his troops. This cannot
be allowed. That's why we strongly opposed the soldiers' rebellion, and I even sent several of our
front-line soldiers to talk to them, to tell them we shouldn't organize such actions.
What do you think of the events in Donbas – is it peace, a truce, calm before the storm?
There have been no active offensive operations in the Donbas this month. And there was no ceasefire
either. I repeat… there was not one day or night that we did not have to fight. When they say that
it was quiet, that it was silent, that there was no artillery fire, that's all a lie. The truce
was not respected by the other side, so naturally we shot back.
But, this 'truce' has several positive aspects. The first – the exchange of prisoners. This should
be done; we can't just abandon our guys; there are still 500 of them in enemy hands. Second – it
enabled us to stabilize the front lines, re-equip the brigades that were surrounded, reformat our
forces and bring in more hardware. But, let's wait and see what happens now because intelligence
has sent out information that they are preparing a large-scale offensive on our positions on all
fronts. Our troops are ready; they're undergoing heavy defense training.
Do you expect that there will be a time when the DUC and Right Sector may be the only
forces fighting against the enemy under the provisions of President's peace plan?
I'm very well aware of the mood prevailing in army divisions that we fought with and are still
fighting with. I know that many brigades of the Ukrainian Armed Forces don't want to listen to ridiculous
orders about a truce and so on. In any case, we won't be alone. There are even some jokes going
round about some brigades… that such and such a brigade of the Armed Forces is really Right Sector.
We have some authority in the army.
Is it really necessary for Right Sector to be so radical? Like on October 8 in Troieschina
when your guys destroyed illegal slot machines and then got into a fight on the streets?
If we wanted everybody to like us, we'd be like walking dollar signs. Everyone likes dollars.
We do what the government doesn't do. If the state does not respond in a civilized way, the citizens
will do so. I don't see anything positive about throwing corrupt officials into garbage bins. It's
best to send them to prison. So, if the government doesn't do that, ordinary people will throw these
thieves who are still in power into garbage containers.
Why should the Donetsk Airport be defended?
The airport has become a symbol of resistance of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. We were able to
build an effective defense at airports. We're taking more specific measures, but I can't talk about
that now. The General Staff has deployed reinforcements. The 93th Brigade, the 17th Tank Brigade
and Right Sector were stationed there previously. Now, there are troops from the 79th and 95th Brigades.
The 17th Tank Brigade… these are amazing guys. Their combat operations are heroic. Our defense is
relatively effective.
There was a very important assault one and a half weeks ago. We managed to make mincemeat of
their group. 450 terrorists took part in this battle, but only 18 got out. We also lost two guys
from Right Sector, and about ten were wounded. You can see for yourself the difference in losses.
I mean, the enemy can be beaten if plans and objectives are clearly and correctly defined. I wouldn't
advise the generals to give up the airport because it's a symbol of our war. We've taken revenge
for Ilovaisk by inflicting incredibly heavy losses on the terrorists at the airport.
What do you think of the presidential decree on pardoning the terrorists?
Negative. When we liberated territories during the summer offensive campaign and were squeezing
the separatists into a corner, we entered towns and villages and saw what those monsters had done
to peaceful ordinary people. Avdiyivka is located just north of Donetsk. We enter the town… it's
a torture chamber – people handcuffed to posts, dead bodies, spilled intestines, blood everywhere…
Forgive those who did this? That's utterly unacceptable and wrong. I hope that all these laws and
the so-called truce are just a game that our President is playing. If not, we'll see it as a betrayal
of national interests and our response will be adequate.
Is Ihor Kolomoisky financing the Right Sector?
I saw him early June. The Right Sector political party doesn't take a nickel from the oligarchs.
I think that Kolomoisky will confirm that. Oligarchs can't talk to me about money. But, we're actively
collaborating with the Dnipropetrovsk Regional State Administration, in two ways. In May, Right
Sector subdivisions entered several districts of Donetsk oblast at the request of the administration
– Krasnoarmiysky, Dobropilsky, Velykonovoselkivsky – drove out the terrorists and created a buffer
zone. Since the beginning of the war, the administration has given us about 200,000 hryvnias to
equip our rear base. This is all the money that we got from Kolomoiskiy, so to speak. These are
not such great amounts that we can talk about. Today, the Regional State Administration has a patriotic
position. We also have quite a few wounded, more than a hundred since the war started. We get full
support and assistance at Dnipropetrovsk hospitals. They get everything they need from the Regional
Administration and Kolomoisky
Revolution of dignity was essentially replacement of the elite. Ukraine entered Balkan variant.
Repeating Yugoslavia. 0.1% of population are net winners. Everybody else lost.
00:06 Кто выиграл от госпереворота на Украине?
01:32 Характерные социологические показатели по Украине
07:16 Чем объясняется высокое доверие граждан нынешней украинской власти?
09:26 Феномен партии львовского мэра на выборах
16:50 О назначении иностранцев на посты министров
23:19 Как распределяются миграционные потоки с Донбасса?
24:19 О новых антисоциальных законах Яценюка
29:40 О региональных бунтах
32:41 О донецких "элитах"
37:24 Туманное будущее Донбасса
39:47 Тенденции развития социально-экономической процессов на Украине
41:01 P.S. Итоги февральского госпереворота
45:05 P.P.S. О незрелости донецких "элит"
Ирина
Революция достоинства? Толкать друг дружку в мусорные баки, ставить бесконца друг друга на
колени Орать про нэзалэжность и отдать управление страной чужестранцам
... ... ...
Особенности национальной глупости
+Ирина Вы уж меня извините, но надо быть совсем идиотом, чтобы не отличать незаконный государственный
переворот от сознательного выбора народа. Или вы хотите сказать, что народ Украины мечтал привести
к власти эту кровавую хунту? Да всем нормально при Януковиче жилось - о майдане никто не помышлял,
пока америкосы своё рыло не всунули... Майдан - это отточенная и проверенная на других странах
политтехнология, не имеющая ничего общего с народным волеизъявлением.
Bonn Polydaris
Ментальный код, как романтично!
Нет такого явления, есть общественное мнение, которое формирует идеология правящего класса.
Что формировали, то и получили.
Страна УТРАТИЛА национальную государственность. И это значит, что процессы распада будут только
нарастать. Пока есть, что грабить, тут будут господствовать и царить компрадоры.
The best chance of saving Ukraine in its present borders would be a reconstruction program beyond
George C. Marshall's wildest dreams.[1] A program of this magnitude would require pooling the resources
of Russia, the EU the United States. and other international organization, and having them work together
over many years.
The following were remarks prepared for a panel on "Russia in the Global Context," held at
New York University and jointly sponsored by the Jordan Center for Advanced Russian Studies at NYU
and the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs, December 1, 2014.
"At its core, therefore, this conflict is about whether Ukraine should be a monocultural or pluricultural
nation, and peace is unlikely until Ukrainian politics are brought into conformity with the country's
cultural reality."
I quite agree with Jack Matlock, our first ambassador to Russia, with Tony
Brenton, Britain's former ambassador to Russia, with Chris Westdal, Canada's former ambassador to
Russia and Ukraine, and former German chancellors Gerhard Schroeder and Helmut Schmidt, and Vaclav
Klaus, former president of Czech republic.
The conflict in Ukraine is a conflict among indigenous communities that have very different ideas
of what it means to be Ukrainian. It is a war over Ukrainian identity.
For the Westernmost regions (Galicia), being Ukrainian means suppressing Russian culture so that
Ukrainian culture can thrive in its stead. Here, creating a Ukraine that is antithetical to Russia
is commonly referred to as making a "civilizational choice" in favor of Europe.
For the eight Russophone regions of eastern and southern Ukraine (which I call the Other Ukraine),
being Ukrainian means being a distinct nation that is still very close to Russia. These Ukrainians
do not wish to join Russia, but neither do they wish to be forced to forsake Russian culture in
order to be considered loyal Ukrainians. They do not accept the idea that there is any civilizational
choice to make, but if forced to choose between a Ukraine in NATO or the EU and a Ukraine in alliance
with Russia, they prefer Russia by a 2:1 margin.
At its core, therefore, this conflict is about whether Ukraine should be a monocultural or pluricultural
nation, and peace is unlikely until Ukrainian politics are brought into conformity with the country's
cultural reality.
Why Now?
For more than two decades, these two regionally based versions of national identity managed a
tense co-existence, alternating the presidency between them and thwarting the functioning of parliament
in order to prevent the other side from implementing its maximum political agenda.
This gridlock prevented reform, it is true, but it was also Ukraine's way of avoiding civil war,
which many believed would erupt if one side were to dominate completely, and turn its definition
of Ukrainian identity into a test of civic loyalty.
This is what many Ukrainians believe happened on February 22, 2014. Yanukovych's ouster was seen
as a violation of the delicate political balance between Galicia and Donbass, and, therefore, a
direct threat to the core interest of Russophone Ukrainians. Two-thirds of Donbass residents surveyed
in early May said they regarded the Maidan as "an armed overthrow of the government, organized by
the opposition with the assistance of the West."
The same day three thousand local officials from the eastern and southern regions gathered in
Kharkov and voted to assume political control in their regions until "constitutional order" was
restored in Kiev.
In Crimea, the regional parliament went even further and sought to redress an old grievance,
the abrogation of its 1992 Constitution, by calling for a referendum on greater autonomy within
Ukraine. Kiev responded by sacking Ukraine's defense minister and putting the military under the
direct command of the new acting speaker/president, Oleksandr Turchynov, who tried to replace local
military commanders and security forces in Crimea.
Crimean authorities request the assistance of the Russian Black Sea Fleet stationed in Crimea
in maintaining security. Citing the threat to Russian citizens, military personnel and compatriots
in Crimea, Putin is given authority to use Russian troops in Ukraine. A week later the Crimean referendum
is moved up, the question changed from autonomy within Ukraine to secession with the intent of joining
Russia, and the rest is history.
The same scenario begins to unfold in Donbass, but there, Russia responds very differently.
First, it distances itself from the rebels and opposes their referendum for greater autonomy
within Ukraine (not secession)-which the rebels go ahead with anyway.
Second, after holding military exercises in February, Russia announces the return of troops to
their barracks in late April, after the beginning of Kiev's military campaign in the east.
Finally, after Petro Poroshenko's election, and just as the Ukrainian military campaign in the
east expands, Putin asks the Russian parliament to rescind his authority to use troops outside Russia.
I, therefore, do not believe that Russia's strategy aims at destabilizing Ukraine. It is already
coping with half a million refugees. More instability will only produce economic collapse, a failed
state and millions of refugees. What it wants, I believe, is a stable Ukraine that will be able
to repay the 30 billion U.S. dollars it currently owes Russia in private, corporate and government
debt.
But it disagrees strongly with the West about how stability can be achieved.
The West is not in the least bit concerned with cultural differences in Ukraine and how they
affect politics. It assumes that if corruption is reduced, the economy will grow, and cultural divisions
will simply fade away.
Russia, on the other hand, sees Ukraine as a culturally fragmented society. Corruption feeds
on this fragmentation and leads to political gridlock. Peace and stability, therefore, require the
legitimation of these cultural differences.
This is slightly different from the point I made at the outset, that peace and stability depend
on bringing Ukrainian politics into conformity with cultural reality. There are actually two ways
to do this.
The first is to forge a pluricultural Ukraine in which minority communities are given equal
rights within the framework of Ukrainian political identity. This is actually Russia's and the
Russophone community's preferred solution.
The second is to forge a culturally homogeneous Ukraine in which minorities are assigned
a subordinate status and are politically powerless to change it.
The pluricultural option has been rejected by president Poroshenko and by the majority of the
newly elected Ukrainian parliament. But, due to the events of this year, the monocultural option
has gained a new lease on life.
The reasons are obvious. There are now six million fewer Russophone Ukrainians under Ukrainian
government control. This is a 28 percent reduction of the Russophone population of Ukraine (not
counting refugees).
Moreover, because the military conflict in so highly localized, compared to 2012, Russophone
Ukraine has also lost 43 percent of its GDP and 46 percent of its export capacity. The once-dominant
Russophone regions no longer have the wealth or political influence to sway national politics in
their favor.
The latest
parliamentary elections demonstrate the new correlation of forces. The population loss in Donbass
and Crimea, combined with a 17 percent decrease in voter turnout in the rest of Russophone Ukraine,
and a 3 percent increase in voter turnout in the three Galician regions, resulted in 90 percent
of party list seats going to parties that advocate for Ukrainian cultural supremacy.
Whether or not a monocultural approach to Ukrainian politics can succeed will likely depend on
how it treats its Russophone minority, which, in almost any scenario, will still constitute a third
of the population.
Many prominent intellectuals have said that Russian speakers will need to be reeducated into
a proper appreciation of their suppressed Ukrainian identity, a process that Donetsk University
professor Elena Styazhkina calls "positive,
peaceful colonization."
To accomplish this, however, Kiev will have to impose a new political and economic elite in the
region, just as the North did in the South after the American civil war. Indeed, the Parliamentary
accords signed on November 21 contain, as one of their key provisions, military redistricting to
ensure "a
permanent military presence in the East."
And, just as it did in the American South, institutionalized subordination of the minority
is likely to spawn a subculture of resentment against "the occupiers," and result in an illiberal
democracy.
What Now?
Our present attitude toward Ukraine reminds me of the Judgment of Solomon. Only, instead of being
like the mother who relinquishes her claim to save the child, the West and Russia are like the woman
who would prefer to see the child torn asunder, rather than let the other side have it.
In reality, our interest in Ukraine is two-fold. First, achieving a viable Ukraine. Second, removing
Ukraine as a source of contention between Russia and the West.
The best chance of saving Ukraine in its present borders would be a reconstruction program
beyond
George C. Marshall's wildest dreams.[1] A program of this magnitude would require pooling the
resources of Russia, the EU the United States. and other international organization, and having
them work together over many years.
Sadly, such a program has no chance of being implemented, mainly because it would acknowledge
the obvious - Russia's importance for preserving world order, which many now equate with "rewarding
Russia," rather than with common sense.
I suspect that we will be paying for our lack of vision for the rest of this century. Two likely
consequences spring to mind.
The first is the demise of Ukraine as we now know it, as the country fragments into those very
spheres of influence that political leaders claim to be so fervently against.
The second consequence is what I call the Great Shift Eastward, by which I mean Russia's
embrace of her heretofore underutilized Asian patrimony. There is a long list of geostrategists
who have warned Western leaders to do everything possible to prevent this by binding Russian interest
to Europe. No doubt many of them recall Mikhail Lomonosov's famous dictum that "The Arctic Ocean
and Siberia are destined to magnify Russia's power." [российское могущество прирастать будет
Сибирью и Северным океаном. . . ]
On its present course, I fear that the West's enduring legacy in the twenty-first century may
be to fulfill this destiny.
Nicolai N. Petro is professor
of political science at the University of Rhode Island. He has just finished a year in Odessa as
a U.S. Fulbright research scholar in Ukraine. His views do not reflect those of the U.S. Department
of State or the Fulbright Program.
A clear analysis of the Ukraine conflict can be found
here:
I quite agree with Jack Matlock, our first ambassador to Russia, with Tony Brenton, Britain's
former ambassador to Russia, with Chris Westdal, Canada's former ambassador to Russia and
Ukraine, and former German chancellors Gerhard Schroeder and Helmut Schmidt, and Vaclav
Klaus, former president of Czech republic.
The conflict in Ukraine is a conflict among indigenous communities that have very different
ideas of what it means to be Ukrainian. It is a war over Ukrainian identity.
For the Westernmost regions (Galicia), being Ukrainian means suppressing Russian culture
so that Ukrainian culture can thrive in its stead. Here, creating a Ukraine that is antithetical
to Russia is commonly referred to as making a "civilizational choice" in favor of Europe.
For the eight Russophone regions of eastern and southern Ukraine (which I call the Other
Ukraine), being Ukrainian means being a distinct nation that is still very close to Russia.
These Ukrainians do not wish to join Russia, but neither do they wish to be forced to forsake
Russian culture in order to be considered loyal Ukrainians. They do not accept the idea
that there is any civilizational choice to make, but if forced to choose between a Ukraine
in NATO or the EU and a Ukraine in alliance with Russia, they prefer Russia by a 2:1 margin.
At its core, therefore, this conflict is about whether Ukraine should be a monocultural
or pluricultural nation, and peace is unlikely until Ukrainian politics are brought into
conformity with the country's cultural reality.
fairandreasonabletoo, 6 Dec 2014 20:12
From arguably the most anti-Russian ISP……… (yahoo)
This before they started losing their asses with Russian imposed sanctions…..Mmmm!
bobby_fisher -> Trader SeerStrategy 6 Dec 2014
The article pretty much breaks it down for you why the aspiration of the people in the
streets a year ago resulted in the failed state of today.
Ukraine was, and is used as a means to the ends, which is to create a divide between Russia
and EU, attempt for isolation through sanctions, etc..
Ukraine was directed to turn away from the only meaningful trading partner they had, and
in to suicidal civil war that have resulted in the negative 7% economic growth, that is
exactly failed state territory.
News search of UK media for "Ukraine economy" turned this:
Poroshenko lost the ight for the position of Interior Minister. By "appropriating" Yatsenyuk he
is implicitly became came responsible for Odessa and and disastrous ATO conducted by Turchinov-Yatsenyuk
regime. This is a political liability. This also creates difficulties in conducting foreign policy.
But "Facebook junkee" Avakov is even more controversial figure. As Avakov is on Russia "wanted" list
this is also affront to Russia, which Yatsenyuk with his super aggressive stance toward Russia, and
way too frequent controversial political statements regarding foreign policy probably does not
mind. But this is what Poroshenko does not want. now not only Yatsenyuk, in his inability to keep his
tongue in this mouth, strongly resembles vice President Biden and that probably will not help
Ukraine to get our of the current economic crisis as Russia holds the cards. Now you have a tandem
Yatsenyuk-Avakov which in its ability to make silly or controversial statement is probably Biden squared...
Fight for the post of interior minister between BPP and NF was the most fierce and long, stretching
for several weeks. Yatsenyuk was even ready to give up the post of prime minister if Avakov lose
the position.
Why is this ministry position is so important for NF? In BPP suggest that one of the main factors
is that Avakov controls several volunteer battalions. They can be instrumental for pressure on personally
Poroshenko as well as his party.
During his tenure as minister Avakov got a nickname of "Minister of Facebook" because he way
too often posted about the work done in this social network.
The situation with official documents is much worse. The site of the Cabinet reports on the activities
of led by Avakov ministry from February to November 2014. There are only five points. One among
them is strengthening the morale of police officers.
Chairman of the faction "Block Poroshenko" Yuriy Lutsenko accused the government Yatsenyuk theft
and corruption
"Firstly, for the 8 months in power Yatsenyuk never started reforms. And references to the war
should not be accepted. On the contrary, at this critical time only radical reform is the way to
win, "- said Lutsenko.
According to him, the previous Cabinet led by Yatsenyuk made a number of errors that result in
"bribery in the ministroies is pandemic and eseentially a parish of those in power."
"The second problem is corruption. Hundreds of millions of stolen in almost every resource ministry,
"- he said.
Ex-Foreign Minister Konstantin Grishchenko, who held the post in 2003-2005 and 2010-2012, respectively,
criticized the Prime Minister Yatsenyuk who intervenes with the issues that are within the purview
of Ministry of Foreign Affairs and often comments foreign policy decisions.
According to the former Minister of Foreign Affairs, such comments of the Prime Minister only
hurt the formation of the general political line of the Ukrainian leadership. Grishchenko said
"Desire for a peace is shared, perhaps, by every Ukrainian. But the the desire to accept
the situation that has arisen as a result of non-compliance (predictable) with Minsk Agreement,
apparently is not shared by anybody. And between those two poles we need to find what to do
next - the is the task of politicians who took full responsibility for the fate of the country.
I generally do not understand why we have the Prime Minister comments those issues. Foreign
policy is the exclusive competence of the President. It is the president, who according to the
constitution and practice, is responsible for foreign policy.
I do not think this is useful when the structure, which is responsible for the economy, rates,
the standard of living pf population interferes with the sphere of competence of another institution,
clearly defined in our state. And I think what we need from the very beginning of the coalition
negotiations to understand who is responsible for what, ".
This way Grishchenko put into proper place the overambitious prime minister of Ukraine.
It is unclear, however, whether Yatsenyuk is ready to cede the primacy to the President
in the defining of the foreign policy of the country, even taking into account the fact that the
formal head of state has clear precedence in this matter.
After all, apart from being a extremely ambitious Yatsenyuk's party is a formal winner
of early elections to the Verkhovna Rada. They got more votes then the block of Poroshenko in final
count on the party lists.
Also on the topic of political leadership (or lack thereof), I wanted to post
this extremely
interesting political analysis of the new inter-species struggle building up among Ukrainian
junta government.
The piece is by a journalist named Irina Gavrilova who, judging by her photo, is gorgeous;
but never mind about that, this piece, which is written with a smart, ironic tone, could have
been written by a super-hideous Baba Yaga, and still deserve a full translation; which I don't
have time for; so here is a summary of the main points, and I cannot even hope to replicate
Irina's sharp writing style:
SUMMARY AND PARTIAL TRANSLATION
Nine months after the Maidan Revolution, we start to notice a split (raskol) among the victors
in Kiev.
This is basically a historical repetition of the 2004 Orange Revolution (Maidan #1), these
colour revolutions always lead to the same result.
Recall in Maidan #1 how the Messiah President Viktor Yushchenko fought with his "Orange Princess"
Yulia Tymoshenko. Those two trolled each other mercilessly, their feud was imbued with mutual
contempt. Yulia called Viktor a "weak rag", he called her a "bitch, collecting favours like
dogs collect fleas".
The result of this vicious internecine struggle was a terrible gas contract with Russia,
the splitting of the nation, and the fall of the currency from 4 to 8 hryvnas per dollar.
The apotheosis of the conflict was Tymoshenko's mocking allusion to Yushchenko's [oligarchic]
godfather: "So here comes running in, all covered in tears and snot, Petr Alekseevich."
This "snotty" Petr Alekseevich, Yushchenko's godfather, was none other than Petr Aleskseevich
Poroshenko, now the President of Ukraine.
Now Poroshenko has the opportunity to experience exactly what his god-son did 10 years ago,
and how exactly how he felt. But the format has changed somewhat. It has been elevated to a
new, "European" level.
On September 11 [i.e., 3 days ago], a latent anti-presidential couplet took place. There
was a party conference of the "National Front" block, headed by Yatsenuk and Turchynov.
In the foyer, in addition to the usual politicians, one could see the entire "flower" of
the Volunteer Armies: the Talking-Helmet Tymchuk, Commanders of the Punitive Brigades, such
as Semenchenko; ex-Maidan Commandant Parubiy; Avakov and his posse, amongst whom the brightest
lights are Zor'an Shkir'ak and Tan'a Chornovol. The latter (Tan'a) is fifth on their list of
candidates, and will be the female face of the National Front.
Besides them, Yatsenuk and Turchykov, are nominating for Parliament: the Maidan sniper Serhiy
Pashinsky; [and follows a list of their other candidates for the various ministries]
Nobody seems to be bothered by the existing law which forbids military people to run for
office.
None of these people are Kolomoisky's agents. They are all, if not Poroshenko's direct political
allies; at least his fellow comrades from the Maidan.
It is now completely apparent that the [new] block Yatsenuk-Turchynov, has out-maneuvered
Poroshenko's block. This is why Poroshenko keeps putting off the date for his own party congress.
He hasn't been able to come up with any desirable candidates [for his own block].
The only people that Poroshenko has with him now are the alcoholic Yury Lutsenko, and also a
handful of depressed and cowardly governors and bureaucrats. No matter how many times Poroshenko
replaced the heads of the various oblasts, he could never find anybody with charisma.
[Goes on to say that Poroshenko has very small chance of filling the new Rada with a majority
of his supporters.]
On the other hand, the probability of a new coup, in Fall or Winter, is very high.
And who will be the leaders of this new "revolution"? Not the Jew-Banderite [Zhido-Banderovets]
Kolomoisky. [Petr Alekseevich will receive the mortal blow from within his own erstwhile camp.]
[Goes on to say that the "heroes" of the anti-terror campaign are all flocking to the new
power center of Yatsenuk-Turchynov. They want nothing to do with Poroshenko any more.]
But since both political camps share the same constituency and voters, their split will also
lead to a split within the ranks of the army.
Which is not surprising: the army is already split into two warring (in both plain and metaphorical
meaning of the word) camps: on the one hand, Defense Minister Heletei and SBU head Nalivaychenko;
on the other side is Avakov and the "volunteer" battalions.
What we see here in broad daylight is that strong "fist" which overthrew the legitimate president
Yanukovych and now, with actual military experience under its belt, this same grouping will
not hestitate to overthrow Poroshenko as well. The know the drill, and they have the people.
And the reality is, that this coup will enjoy popular support. [Polls shows that] a majority
of the Ukrainian people WANT the continuation of the war, they want to see the complete obliteration
of the "terrorists", they want to see Donbass wiped off the map of Ukraine, they want to see
a complete break of relations with Russia, the militarization of all society,entry into NATO.
[yalensis: Some of the commenters to this piece dispute Irina's conclusions, regarding Ukrainian
popular opinion being pro-war. Admittedly, this is the weakest part of her analysis, since she
does not provide poll numbers.]
It is no accident that the National Front congress took place against the background of the
Minsk agreements between Poroshenko and Putin, and the introduction of a law regarding the "special
status" of Donbass.
This leads right to the confrontation of two warring parties: the party of the patriots (Yatsenuk
& Co.), versus the party of the "traitors and collaborationists". And this is only the beginning
[of this inter-species war]: the continuation promises to be fascinating, given the fact that
Yatsenuk has collected, in his block, an entire bouquet of schizophrenics, hysterics and sectarians.
But they will have the support of the Ukrainian people, who are baying for blood, corpses, and
victory at any price. Against this bloodlust, the party of the President (Poroshenko) is losing,
he only has 2 ways out: to cave in and give the National Front whatever they ask for, in return
for running together as a block; OR Plan B: to postpone the parliamentary elections and introduce
martial law.
The weak spot of her analysis, as you say, is probably incorrect. A somewhat recent poll
(two weeks old or so) showed a majority of Ukrainians were opposed to the war, preferring instead
a compromise. It was done by an Ukrainian pollster.
The figures were 5x% in favor of a settlement, 3x% in favor of continuing the war, and the
rest didn't have an opinion. I use "x" because I don't recall the exact numbers, other than
50s against the war and 30s for it.
Turchynov and Yats replacing Porky 'legitimately' is bad news for Ukraine. They will, as
American agents, do everything to provoke Russia and continue the bloodbath.
I don't know why they would: the worst government, from the Kremlin's viewpoint – now that
Ukraine has declared itself a puppet – would be one which successfully healed the breach between
east and west, turned the economy around in a successful direction, worked out a deal that Russia
could not say "No" to which would allow commerce to continue between the two countries and then
took Ukraine into the EU and NATO. A tall order, and not likely one a single administration
could accomplish, but it would have been possible before the west got impatient and pushed the
country into a coup. Now it is impossible, but the government that looks least likely ever in
a million years to achieve it would be one of Yatsenyuk and Turchynov. What would be in the
Kremlin's best interest would be a Ukraine that completely collapsed and dragged the EU down
with it, and a Ukraine run by Turchynov and Yatsenyuk would be most likely to do that. A Ukraine
that elected a pro-Russian government – the least likely scenario – would be one the west would
likely abandon in disgust, leaving it a war-ravaged liability which would want Russia to spend
money on it to help it back to its feet, and as soon as it looked successful the west would
be back inveigling to overthrow the government again
It might well be that Putin and Poroshenko both acting rationally at the Donbass if we view events
from the prism of their real goals. Unless, of course, to assume that they agreed dual-language,
confederate status of Donbass within Ukraine. Came to a compromise on the basis of the Putin plan.
A compromise that means: federated neutral Ukraine in the customs Union. With the Russian language
as the second state (at least de facto) plus full denazification, including schools and kindergartens.
But only idealists think that President Poroshenko can call the shots. For now he can only maneuver
between existing political forces. And one of them passinate-neoNazis from Western Ukraine.
Still it is possible to come to agreement with Putin's plan for Ukraine. But that requires physical
elimination of most radical elements within Western Ukrainian nationalists. And it is much better
do it better with somebody else hands. Here a limited Donbass space might be a suitable lab, isn't
it? Where you can grind them into fertilizers. and there nobody to blame. But as classics used to
say no people - no problems.
I think that the war in Novorossia became much clearly understood if we view it from this very
angle. And the strange behavior of Ukrainian Army brass, which tries to send into the furnace of
war volunteer battalions. If this is true that the real goal is not to win. The real goal is the
destruction by the hands of others the most dangerous part of the population of Ukraine.
Therefore, the war will never spread further than Donbass and it will not end until it is destroyed
the number of neo-Nazi followers necessary for their complete marginalization. And then they talk
about the peace accord.
Assuming that attacking side suffer twice or three time as many casualties that defending side we
can assume that confederates lost something lake 2-3 thousand fighter and Kiev army and militia up to
ten thousand. This is much less then in Syria where total losses are up to 200 thousand.
KIEV, Aug. 20 (Xinhua) -- At least 43 people, including 34 civilians,were killed during the battles
in eastern Ukraine over the last 24 hours, authorities said Wednesday.
Nine government troops were killed and 12 others wounded in fights with independence-seeking insurgents
during the operation to encircle the rebel strongholds in Lugansk and Donetsk regions, said Andrei
Lysenko, spokesman for the National Security and Defense Council (NSDC).
Most of the casualties were caused by the fighting that erupted near the Ilovaysk town, which lies
on the highway, connecting the two centers of rebel activity -- the cities of Donetsk and Lugansk.
According to the NSDC, insurgents deployed tanks and heavy artillery during the fighting. As of
Wednesday morning, government troops have claimed to have taken control over Ilovaysk.
... ... ...
In total, at least 951 people have been killed in Donetsk region since violence began, it added.
The exact number of casualties in the neighboring Lugansk region is still unclear.
The conflict, which erupted in eastern Ukraine in mid-April, claimed the lives of over 2,000 people
and injured thousands of others, local experts estimated.
The meeting will be attended by the presidents of Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia, Ukraine, and EU
foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton, said the press service of the Belarusian president.
Ukraine's presidential press service said earlier that Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has
confirmed his participation during a phone conversation with European Commission President Jose
Manuel Barroso.
EU Trade Commissioner Karel De Gucht and EU Commissioner for Energy Guenther Oettinger are also
expected to attend.
The meeting will dwell on the partnership between Kiev and the EU, European energy security and
ways to stabilize the situation in eastern Ukraine, according to the Ukrainian statement.
The Kremlin said Putin would hold a number of bilateral meetings in the Belarusian capital, but
did not specify if those meetings would include one with Poroshenko.
i would admit, that it took me time find the text of this law. The the first time I fialed. I
even thought that it is not there. Or may the law On sanctions" secret and not subject to disclosure.
However, my perseverance was rewarded, and I am interested in the text on the website of the
Verkhovna Rada me has been
detected..
Moreover, on the coveted page there was not only original and revised edition of the law, but
also "a Comparative table for the second reading", in which all changes in the text were recorded.
And what I saw in this table? Nothing. All paragraphs of article No. 4, listing the types of
sanctions, and actually destroying Ukraine freedom of speech and media, remained as amended 14.08.2014.
All five anti-constitutional and anti-democratic points "of the Law on sanctions" was untouched.
Ukrainian citizens should remember them by heart. Here they are:
9) the prohibition or limitation of retranslation/relaing of TV and radio channels;
10) the prohibition on the use of radio frequency resources of Ukraine;
11) the limitation or termination of activity of mass media and other subjects of information
activity, including inside the Internet network;
12) the restriction or prohibition of the production and distribution of printed products and
other information materials;
13) the restriction or termination of the provision of telecommunications services and use of
telecommunication networks of General use".
Looks like Yatsenyuk openly lied, claiming that the law removed the "disputed items"? Even the
possibility to restrict the postal service remained in the law.
Now it is the President who will decide what a Ukrainian citizen can speak, listen, and watch,
and what is not. The National Security Council a fully president-controlled structure, and the Parliament
very soon (in October), will also became fully president controlled structure. And then the existence
of any TV station, every radio station, every newspaper or magazine, any publishing houses and any
Internet resource will depend entirely on the good will of the Ukrainian President.
If now the media operates under powerful illegal pressure from the so-called Patriotic forces
in the form of physical attacks against journalists and pogroms, since August 14, the government
can shut up anyone quite legitimately. Whey no longer need militants with baseball bats, repainted
into patriots.
The law is not limited to Ukraine. "The law On sanctions" is truly universal and allows the Ukrainian
authorities to carry out repressive measures against any legal and physical persons, regardless
of whether it is foreign or Ukrainian. And here Mr. Yatsenyuk again lied, saying that sanctions
are concerned only foreign and physical legal entities.
As stated in paragraph No. 2 of the first article of the law, sanctions may refer to the
"foreigners, stateless persons, citizens of Ukraine, legal entities established in accordance
with the legislation of Ukraine, as well as other entities that carry out terrorist activities".
It is not difficult to understand that last phrase under the law to bring anything and anyone,
after all, what is a "terrorist activity" is not determined by the law (there is no formulation
of this notion), but by those people who will use the law to their advantage.
In Ukrainian media the law "On the sanctions" referred to as "anti-Russian", but who decided
that it would be used purely against Russia? Propagandized "anti-Russian sentiments" this law is
more like a cover for his true purpose. For the law On sanctions" Russia is virtually invulnerable.
But any Ukrainian can became the potential victim of the law "On sanctions"
This masterpiece of Ukrainian legal system allow to repress any Ukrainian citizen, any political
party or public organization, any commercial structure without any trial, just accusing them of
"encroachment", "aiding and abetting" or "terrorist activity". And item No. 29, the fourth article,
generally allows to apply any sanction against anyone.
Такое ощущение, что с началом войны многие россияне запретили себе думать. Это и, правда, трудно:
давление пропаганды на социум и социума на личность в России, как и на Украине, сегодня очень велико.
Подумал вразрез с генеральной линией - и уже ощущаешь себя изменником. Тем не менее, думать надо,
потому что ситуация вокруг Донбасса очень неоднозначна.
Громкие отставки в осажденном Донецке показали это особенно ярко. Премьер ДНР Бородай объявил
о сложении полномочий в Москве, куда вдруг "уехал решать вопросы". Что произошло с министром обороны
ДНР Игорем Стрелковым, остается лишь гадать. Напомним, сначала сайт Novorossia сообщил о его тяжелом
ранении. Потом его соратники это на словах опровергли, но на Донбассе Стрелкова явно нет.
Ополченец Александр Жучковский заверил корреспондента "Росбалта", что Стрелков жив и здоров.
Земляк автора этих строк утверждает, что видел "символ донбасского ополчения" в Севастополе. По
данным блогера, пишущего
под ником Strategia-22, Стрелкова вызвали в Севастополь на ковер к главе администрации президента.
"Разговор был крайне жесткий, - пишет блогер. - Прямо в тот момент, когда нам крутили по "Вести-24"
о тяжелом ранении, Стрелкову угрожали тем, что его могут "посадить за наемничество", либо тем, что
"ранение может оказаться крайне тяжелым и несовместимым с жизнью".
Между тем, чем интенсивнее артобстрелы Донецка, где сидящие в подвалах дети приникают губами
к трубам в поисках воды, тем громче российские сетевые пропагандисты кричат об успехах ополченцев
и о поражениях украинских войск. После исчезновения Стрелкова этот шум достиг такой интенсивности,
что, если сопоставлять "фронтовые сводки" раскрученных блогеров с тревожными сообщениями властей
ДНР и жуткими телерепортажами из Донбасса, возникает ощущение параллельных реальностей.
В этой кампании участвуют не только армия интернет-троллей. На днях новый премьер ДНР Александр
Захарченко заявил, что Стрелков теперь "займется формированием армии Новороссии". И подсластил пилюлю
сообщением: к ополченцам пришли резервы, которые четыре месяца проходили подготовку в лагерях на
территории России. И теперь 30 танков, 120 БМП и БТР и артиллерийская бригада начнут контрнаступление.
За это заявление тут же ухватились в Киеве и на Западе, которым остро не хватает доказательств
участия России в войне. Но обещанного Захарченко наступления все нет, как нет и доказательств прорыва
на территорию Украины бронегруппы из РФ, о котором сообщили в минувший четверг сопровождавшие российский
гуманитарный конвой корреспонденты Guardian и Daily Telegraph. Не исключено, что, поскольку британцы
не смогли зафиксировать факт пересечения границы, демонстративный, с горящими фарами, бросок БТР
в ее сторону тоже был опосредованной пиар-акцией, призванной показать россиянам, что, несмотря на
свою странную политику, Москва "своих не бросает".
Но если "горящие в котлах укропы", как сообщают нам пропагандисты, вот-вот падут – почему в осажденных
ими городах каждый день продолжают гибнуть женщины и старики? Если "развал экономики Украины вот-вот
вынудит ее остановить войну" – почему обстрелы городов не ослабевают? Если "украинские войска полностью
деморализованы" – почему контролируемая ополченцами территория так драматически сокращается? И почему
Захарченко теперь опровергает свои же слова о подкреплении из РФ?
Синхронность российских пиар-атак с украинскими бомбежками наводит на крамольную мысль об общности
их целей. Тем более, что цели Москвы в отношении Донбасса остаются неясными. Весной Владимир Путин
говорил о Новороссии, о разделенном русском народе, о красной линии для Киева, обещал не дать в
обиду Донбасс и принимал закон о вводе войск. Теперь, когда поверивший этому Донбасс тает в кровавой
мясорубке, образ желаемого будущего для этого региона в речах президента РФ вообще не просматривается.
Тем временем, хор близких к Кремлю патриотов все громче поет о том, что "нам нужен не Донбасс,
нам нужна вся Украина". Им подпевают отдельные представители ополчения, анонсируя "поход на Киев"
и даже "на Львов". Поскольку речь идет о стране, которая беснуется от русофобии и обстреливает территорию
РФ, с таким же успехом можно кричать: "Нам нужна вся Польша". Иными словами, Москва под заведомо
невыполнимым лозунгом взяла курс на возвращение Донбасса Украине и пытается найти форму, в которой
это можно скормить охваченному патриотизмом российскому обществу.
Эта версия становится все более популярной, так как объясняет многое. И вывод из руководства
ополчением граждан РФ, который позволит Москве дипломатически и медийно дистанцироваться от ДНР-ЛНР.
И их замену украинцами и выходцами из Приднестровья. И призывы близкого к Ахметову командира батальона
"Восток" Ходаковского, который дважды подставлял ополченцев под огонь врага, к сохранению "территориальной
целостности Украины". И примирительную риторику Путина в Крыму. И обращение МИД РФ к "обеим сторонам
конфликта" с просьбой сложить оружие. И активизацию мертворожденного, так и не поддержанного населением
Донбасса проекта "Новороссия" во главе с регионалом Царевым, который позирует с русским имперским
флагом на фоне трагической осады Донецка.
Между тем, даже символическое значение Стрелкова трудно переоценить. Его внезапное исчезновение
без сомнения ударило и по духу ополченцев и по надеждам на усиление позиций РФ в Киеве, которых
Москва, 20 лет не занимавшаяся Украиной, вряд ли уже теперь добьется – во всяком случае, мирным
путем.
"Парадоксальным образом, именно Игорь Стрелков, несмотря на его симпатии к дореволюционной монархии
и ностальгию по Российской империи, был той самой фигурой, которая в наибольшей степени способствовала
радикализации процесса, - пишет марксист Борис Кагарлицкий. – Он прославился не только честностью
и откровенностью (достаточно вспомнить его подробные рассказы о собственных трудностях и неудачах,
резко контрастировавшие с пропагандистскими заявлениями, как Москвы, так и Киева). Политический
инстинкт толкал Стрелкова, во многом вопреки собственным идеологическим пристрастиям, поддерживать
социальные и политические преобразования. Он и его окружение неоднократно подчеркивали, что они
не допустят превращения Новороссии во второе издание домайданной Украины, что находилось в прямом
противоречии со стратегией Кремля, который добивался ровно этого".
В этом и состоит ирония истории, считает Кагарлицкий. "Белое движение, так любимое Стрелковым,
восстанавливало статус-кво старых элит. Восстание на Юго-Востоке, напротив, полностью ломает статус-кво
старых элит - и им придется задавить его любой ценой".
Эдуард Лимонов также уверен, что "Кремль убирает ястребов в руководстве ДНР и ЛНР, для того чтобы
замирить восставший Донбасс с Украиной". По данным писателя, перед их отставками Путин лично встречался
с редактором газеты "Завтра" Александром Прохановым, близко знающим Стрелкова и Бородая. Лимонов
опасается, что при любом сценарии путинского перемирия Киев "вырежет ополченцев".
По мнению популярного сетевого публициста Дмитрия Ольшанского, так называемый "хитрый план" Кремля
состоял в том, "чтобы заставить "западных партнеров", помахивая перед ними ополченцами и приграничными
маневрами, выйти на переговоры о судьбе Киева в принципе". "Предполагалась, что украинцы, боясь
ввода войск, стрелять в ополченцев всерьез не станут, а США и ЕС "сядут за стол переговоров", -
продолжает Ольшанский. - Но блеф провалился. Дальше можно было или подкреплять его реальными действиями,
навсегда выводившими жуликов прочь из швейцарского банка, или бежать, теряя штаны на ходу. Выбрали
- бежать. Ну а дальше уже начался поиск: как взять все свои слова назад так, чтобы это выглядело
не постыдным поражением и предательством (чем все это и является на самом деле), а - чем-то вроде
"я не я, и лошадь не моя, и вообще здесь никого не было, вам показалось".
Путин пытается выйти из сложной для него ситуации на Донбассе, не потеряв при этом лицо перед
избирателями и окружением, в связи с чем скоро можно ожидать переговоров, уверен научный директор
Института евроатлантического сотрудничества Александр Сушко. "Я думаю, санкции значительно чувствительнее,
чем пытается показать Россия, - говорит украинский эксперт. – Да и война эта дорогая".
Между тем, помощь Москвы в возвращении раздавленного, разоренного, разрушенного войной Донбасса
в состав Украины не может не быть обставлена условиями. Что же это за условия? "Они хотят сформулировать
на выходе такой пакет, который максимально остановит процесс евроинтеграции Украины, даст решение
по строительству "Южного потока" и заодно даст выход из донбасского вопроса. Так что уже в ближайшие
недели Россия сядет за стол переговоров с Европой, а затем и с нами", - говорит Сушко.
"Ахметов и Ефремов договорились с Путиным, что они вливаются в "проект Новороссия" при условии
передачи им политических рычагов, -
сообщает Strategia-22.
- Они дают гарантию, что ополчение не выйдет за границы ЛНР и ДНР. Только Донбасс и больше ничего".
По данным блогера, никто из ДНР и ЛНР новое Приднестровье делать не будет, война закончится не
позднее октября. Петру Порошенко мир позволит укрепить свою власть, ЕС - обеспечить транзит газа,
РФ – снизить накал конфронтации с Западом, США - переформатировать Украину, украинской и российской
олигархии - сохранить активы. "Вам будут рассказывать, что все это часть "хитрого плана Путина"
и скоро произойдет полная денацификация Украины, что она станет пророссийской", - продолжает автор
прогноза. Но всего этого никогда не будет: от замирения Донбасса более всего выиграют США.
Первые свидетельства движения к компромиссу России с Западом уже появились: в понедельник в Брюсселе
отказались признавать ополченцев Донбасса "террористами", на чем настаивал официальный Киев.
Тем временем, украинская артиллерия продолжает обстреливать города Донбасса. СМИ каждый день
публикуют новые фото и видео с убитыми мирными жителями. Причем, по многочисленным свидетельствам,
огонь сознательно и прицельно ведется по промышленным предприятиям, объектам инфраструктуры и жилым
кварталам, где ополченцев нет.
Раньше это объясняли тем, что Киев, якобы, смирился с потерей Донбасса и хочет омрачить врагам
радость победы. Теперь это, наверное, просто месть озверевших в боях "лучших представителей" украинской
нации, с которыми неизбежно столкнется "замиренный" при помощи Кремля Донбасс.
Quote: "As for Shaun Walker...Shouldn't he forced to resign just as Judy Miller was forced out after
the WMD fiasco...after all, his claims are an attempt to lead the country to war. Isn't that a crime?
"
Think about this for a minute: Poroshenko issues a statement saying Ukrainian troops destroyed
a Russian convoy of armored vehicles on Thursday. If that's true, then it is an act of war by Russia.
At the same time, he hasn't used the convoy incident to deny Russian humanitarian convoy from
entering the country. Why?
Yes, I know the Red Cross convoy is still at the border, but the fact is Poroshenko hasn't pointed
to the destruction of invading Russian armored vehicles to defend his decision. In fact, he hasn't
even brought it up. Why? If you were in his shoes, you'd cut off all relations with Moscow and close
the borders AND DECLARE A STATE OF WAR. Wouldn't you?
This just shows that the whole Russian convoy deal is a complete fabrication.
These fu**ers rattle off so many lies, they can't even keep track of what they said a day earlier.
It is truly pathetic.
As for Shaun Walker...Shouldn't he forced to resign just as Judy Miller was forced out after
the WMD fiasco...after all, his claims are an attempt to lead the country to war. Isn't that
a crime?
The current occupant of the office, David Cameron, has no such qualms. This year he claimed he
was "doing God's work" when he earlier launched the government's "Big Society"
initiative aimed at increasing volunteering and civic responsibility. In a country where over 1
million people rely on charity food banks to eat and one in six children live in poverty, we can
only wonder what God thinks of Mr Cameron's work.
This week the PM, who is valued at a comparably modest Ł4 million, pledged Ł1 billion from UK
taxpayers to the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko – worth the considerably higher figure of
$1.3 billion. Cameron is considered an aristocrat in Britain but his Ukrainian counterpart is known
as an oligarch. Poroshenko has amassed this fortune in a country with an average monthly salary
which is 1/15th that of the UK.
However, the Ukrainian president is a mere pauper by comparison with the countries' richest man,
Rinat Akhmetov, who has somehow got his hands on $17.8 billion (according to Korrespondent.net,
a leading Ukrainian news portal) in the last two decades, or roughly 10 percent of the war-torn
state's entire GDP. Akhmetov, who didn't make his cash running corner shops, is well known to the
UK elite as the owner of the penthouse at 1, Hyde Park, in central London, paying a record Ł136
million for the privilege and another Ł60 million to decorate it.
The UK's richest man, Irish-born Gerald Grosvenor, is no match for Akhmetov, but somehow makes
do with a pot worth $11.4 billion. Grosvenor, also known as the 6th Duke of Westminster, certainly
could not be described as nouveau riche – his fortune dates back to the 19th century and was largely
created by his ancestor Hugh, the first Duke. Other, genuinely entrepreneurial Brits like Richard
Branson ($4.6 billion) and James Dyson ($4.4 billion) are in the ha'penny place set side-by-side
with the Donbass mogul.
The two Ukrainian oligarchs are not unique in their country, there are plenty of other billionaires
knocking around Kiev and, in 2008, it was estimated that the top 50 controlled 85 percent of the
nation's GDP. Indeed, Forbes names nine Ukrainians on its tally of the world's richest people. Ireland,
with a total GDP that is 16 percent higher than Ukraine's, and with only 10 percent of the population,
has a mere 3 native born sons on the list – which gives you some idea of the gap between the elite
and the rest in Ukraine. In Europe, we often talk about the 'one percent' but in Kiev, it's more
about the 0.000001 percent.
Ironically, should Poroshenko emerge victorious in his current military campaign against rebels
in the Lugansk and Donetsk regions, the biggest economic winner would be Akhmetov, as most of his
business interests are situated in that area. Surely, this fantastically wealthy man could contribute
the money the regime needs instead of Joe and Josephine Soap in the UK? After all, he has invested
well over Ł1 billion in his Shakhtar Donetsk soccer project, but maybe he subscribes to Liverpool
manager Bill Shankly's view: "Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure
you, it's much more serious than that."
Last Spring, the Commons Defence Committee warned that due to government cutbacks there will be
"considerable doubt" about whether Britain will be able to defend itself in future. Amid cuts that
will reduce the size of the British army to its smallest in centuries, Cameron has somehow found
Ł1 billion to fund a war effort in a country that most of the UK's citizens know little about, nor
would care much about if they did.
Given the corruption that pervades in Ukraine, it's highly likely that a lot of the money will find
its way back to London's fancy restaurants and luxury good's stores rather than the war's front-lines
but that is beside the point.
Plainly, the UK state, which due to lack of money now has an infant mortality rate above the EU
average, cannot afford this largesse and Ukraine's top 10 oligarchs – which include its president
– can. Throwing, say, $100 million each into a fund to assist the war effort in the east might mean
buying a smaller yacht or moving to the less fashionable side of Hyde Park, but it would be a key
step in showing that they are willing to change their ways in the "new" Ukraine. It would also be
considerably more honorable than depriving British people of much-needed cash for crumbling public
services.
However, what if they have no intention of altering their behavior and they have instead hijacked
the spirit of "Maidan" to simply replace one oligarchic clique with another? This seems increasingly
to be the case with each passing day, as a glance at current political maneuverings shows.
The Maidan protests began as a show of people power, a large section of the populace tired of the
gut-wrenching corruption and the grind of life in Ukraine, which has the lowest worker's incomes
in Europe. Later, egged on by US and EU hawks, it was commandeered by paid protesters and far-right
activists before the billionaires took control of its momentum. The latest Kiev soap opera concerns
President Poroshenko's weakening grip on power as his Sergeant Bilko act in the east proves less
effective than he'd initially hoped.
Step forward Ihor Kolomoisky, who fancies himself as the new Poroshenko (who was the new Tymoshenko,
who was the new… repeat ad infinitum). Proud patriot Kolomoisky, a citizen of no less than three
countries – Cyprus, Israel and Ukraine – has adroitly used his emergency appointment as governor
of Dnepropetrovsk to position himself as a staunch advocate of Ukrainian nationalism.
He is also significantly richer than the incumbent, with $6.5 billion on hand, according to Korrespondent.
Unlike most of his peers, Kolomoisky has also, Bond-villain style, dipped into his humungous pockets
to assist the military campaign with his own private militia – numbering between 2,000 and 20,000
men, depending on who you believe.
Aside from bankrolling the Dnieper Battalion, he's also offered a $10,000 reward for each rebel
captured by them and is hoping to found a political movement using his private soldiers as "activists."
Meanwhile, Akhmetov is reportedly scrambling around in an attempt to launch a rebranded version
of ousted President Viktor Yanukovich's Party of Regions – which has its power base in the currently
disconnected east.
An oligarch who has been quiet recently is Viktor Pinchuk. In 2010, Pinchuk spent more than $6
million on his 50th birthday in Courchevel, France. Pinchuk, the son-in-law of former President
Leonid Kuchma, is the founder of the Yalta European Strategy, which last autumn hosted former CIA
director David Petraeus, Israeli President Shimon Peres, ex-US President Bill Clinton and probable
presidential candidate Hilary Clinton, plus the aforementioned Mr Blair. Originally a supporter
of Yanukovich, it appears that Pinchuk ($3.1 billion) is the oligarch with the most significant
international connections, and has skillfully reoriented himself as a respectable face of Kiev
"business," despite spending the annual net wage of over 2,000 average Ukrainian workers
on a birthday bash.
The question is, with all this cash swirling around Kiev, why do the Ukrainian oligarchs need
Ł1 billion from embattled British taxpayers to fund their military adventures? With the NHS in turmoil,
the armed forces being decimated and a sizeable minority in the UK unable to afford basic necessities
like food, surely Cameron could find better uses for such a large dollop of dough? Or maybe he thinks
that by presenting it to Ukraine, he is doing "God's work"?
P.S. Russia also has problems with inequality and a culture of oligarchy. This arose in the '90s
after the economic shock therapy forced on it following the collapse of the USSR. Despite the work
of President Putin's administration to correct some of the wrongs of that period, inequality and
a concentration of wealth remains a problem in Russia. However, Russia cannot be compared to Ukraine
due to its size, greater total wealth (over 15 times more) and rather better distribution of it
across society, albeit very far from perfect. Nevertheless, this disparity remains an issue Russia
must address and its lawmakers must do more to tackle it. Many western countries also have growing
problems with inequality and the United States is foremost in this regard. I hope to address both
Russia and the US in future columns.
The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author
and do not necessarily represent those of RT.
I do expect however the US to release the "indisputable proof"
they have, and I do expect Ukraine to release the flight control data for the MH-17.
I did not expect the US to block a UN motion for a ceasefire to allow MH-17 on-the-scene
investigation.
On one side we have means, motive and some evidence that Ukraine has shot that plane down,
on the other we have claims that rebels had the means to bring it down, more claims for supporting
evidence, and no motive.
Those dirty Russian separatists are up to their old tricks again, according to Oracle Of Truth
Lysenko. A refugee convoy of buses from Lugansk was
hit by rocket fire
and dozens killed, including women and children. Probably mostly women and children, if the
truth be known.
Quote: "As Ukraine slides deeper into all-out civil war that began in April 2014, the transformation
from bread basket to basket case is almost complete."
Most Ukrainians have become poor since 1991 and there are many social problems such as alcoholism
and AIDS. The poverty and social stresses are reflected in life expectancy which decreased during
the 1990s. Infant mortality rates increased during the same period. Infrastructure such as roads
and utilities are in a poor state; the water supply and its quality in the country are a major concern
and diseases such as cholera, typhoid, dysentery and hepatitis are present.
Economic Issues and Problems
The fact that a number of major commercial banks (plus other enterprises in other industries)
are owned by wealthy politicians either directly or indirectly poses not just a conflict of interest
for the country's governing elite but also a threat to good governance, financial transparency and
accountability, and ultimately Ukraine's long-term development potential as local and foreign investors
will view the country as hopelessly corrupt. This affects all other sectors of the Ukrainian economy:
if Ukrainian business practice and government enforcement of laws that regulate business and finance
are seen to be compromised because of the extreme concentration of business ownership and wealth
in the hands of a few who also happen to dominate the country's politics, much-needed foreign investment
will avoid the country altogether and all major sectors of Ukraine's economy will shrink and starve
for lack of capital.
In a country that is virtually a plutocracy, the efficient collection of taxes may well be a
pipe-dream and the taxation laws a laughing-stock: if the rich who pull the purse-strings as well
as the puppet-strings don't pay their share of tax or resort to tax evasion and don't care that
others will notice, ordinary people will follow their example. Essential services and infrastructure
that rely heavily on taxation revenue for funding end up undeveloped and run-down, and become ripe
for privatisation (which may have been the original intention all along). There's the possibility
that in some parts of the country, wealthy oligarch-politicians may spend money on services that
would normally be funded by government at national, regional or local level but this means that
the people who benefit from this are basically bought by their benefactor and eventually owe him
(maybe her) protection money or its equivalent.
It's true that manufacturing in Ukraine does suffer from inefficiencies which make it uncompetitive
with Western manufactures; in the early 1990s, such inefficiencies could be blamed on the country's
inheritance of centralised state planning which by its nature of top-down decision-making was slow
to respond to consumer and enterprise demands. However other European countries that were formerly
part of the Soviet orbit, and which gained independence only a couple of years before or the same
time as Ukraine, have passed through their baptism of fire faster and successfully as well, though
they continue to struggle with problems arising from their transition to market economies. The issue
is that in adjusting to market economics and in becoming a market economy, Ukraine was compelled
to undergo the kind of neoliberal economic shock treatment (yes, I have read the Naomi Klein book
"The Shock Doctrine") that other countries like Poland and Russia had to swallow. The kind of steady
transition that a Sweden or a France could afford was not an option offered to Ukraine by a West
enamoured of Thatcher-Reaganite economic policies. While many eastern European countries were able
to transition successfully to market economies thanks to historic links with Germany or Sweden (which
meant that German and Swedish companies invested in those countries and passed on aspects of their
corporate, managerial and industrial cultures), Ukraine did not have that kind of luck due in part
to its peculiar origin as a patchwork nation of peoples with different cultures, religions and histories.
Western Ukraine looks to the West because of its historic links to the Poland-Lithuanian Comonwealth
and the Austro-Hungarian empire and Eastern Ukraine looks to Russia due to long-standing historical
and ethnic links with that country. In addition, the political elites who have governed Ukraine
since 1991 have often proven incompetent, corrupt, arrogant and self-serving.
The country has significant environmental issues including industrial pollution and radiation
issues that are a legacy of the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear reactor explosion which released a huge cloud
of radioactive particles that drifted as far north as Finland in the immediate aftermath and contaminated
soils in and around the town of Chernobyl itself.
Conclusion
From the foregoing, we can see there is tremendous potential for Ukraine to regain its role as
bread basket for Russia, much of eastern and central Europe, and even beyond; the main thing holding
back the country is its political leadership which seems to be in a permanent state of crisis and
chaos. This has many deep consequences that affect the country in many ways: lack of clear political
and economic goals translates into lack of investor confidence in the country's leadership which
itself means desperately needed local and foreign investment is lacking. As a result, several economic
sectors, all of which depend on one another, suffer stymied development. An efficient transport
network is needed to transport agricultural and industrial output and the machinery and other capital
needed by the relevant sectors to produce goods.
It has to be said also that cronyism is rife and is probably Ukraine's biggest political and
economic problem. While President Viktor Yanukovych (2010 – 2014) was associated with cronyism in
the Western news media, other politicians in Ukraine – former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko and
PrivatBank owner Ihor Kolomoisky come to mind – are equally, if not more so, up to their eyeballs
and beyond in corruption. Kolomoisky in particular is an unsavoury character who does not hesitate
to use armed thugs in launching takeovers of companies he takes a shine to.
Tymoshenko spent time in the slammer for acting without authority from the Ukrainian government
as Prime Minister in negotiating a gas deal with Russia in 2009.
With the overthrow of Yanukovych in February 2014 and his government's replacement by one led
by Turchynov and Yatseniuk until mid-May of the same, when presidential elections brought Petro
Poroshenko, owner of a major confectionery business, to power, the crony capitalist order seems
set to continue. As of this time of writing, Poroshenko still has not divested himself of his interests
in the confectionery business despite pledging during his election campaign that he would do so.
As Ukraine slides deeper into all-out civil war that began in April 2014, the transformation from
bread basket to basket case is almost complete.
Reblogged this on
EU: Ramshackle Empire and commented:
Thanks for that excellent summary. It is truly a tragic situation.
yalensis, August 18, 2014 at 3:28 am
Jen:
Good job, this is an excellent and well-researched article!
I think the main take-away is that, if Ukraine is to become a viable nation, it needs to
have an intelligent tax system. And in order for that to happen, they need to have a legal system
which draws a firm line between politics and property ownership.
In other words, you can be a capitalist, or you can be a politician, but you can't be both.
They need to remove or at least marginalize the oligarchs.
Jen, August 18, 2014 at 4:42 am
Why, thanks very much! It was a pleasure to do actually – my biggest problem was bringing
the post down to size.
Yes it's not always appreciated in the West, probably because of the way economics might
be taught in schools and tertiary institutions now and how it's presented in the media, that
you need the rule of law, especially commercial law, and respect for the law and its institutions;
a taxation system that's seen to be fair and transparent, and whose burden falls equally on
the rich and poor alike (a problem that Greece has incidentally – its taxation system is peculiar
and the burden of taxation falls most on ordinary people); a properly run banking and financial
industry subject to regulation so that banks and other financial institutions don't exploit
borrowers, and a psychopath like Kolomoisky wouldn't be allowed to own and run a bank so as
to finance a private army among other things; and investor confidence in the government and
public bureaucracy's ability to enact and enforce the laws regarding business conduct, to punish
wrong-doers promptly and justly, and to be accountable to the public for its actions. The big
problem with Ukraine is that because past governments have been dominated by people looting
the country's coffers, local and foreign lenders and investors regard investing in Ukraine as
a huge risk and consequently all sectors are starved for private and public funding. Because
various sectors depend on one another, the consequences of lack of investment compound each
other. No investment in road-building or railway development means raw materials and goods take
longer to transport from one place to another, transporting them costs more and the higher costs
get passed on through factories, retailers and finally to customers.
"The unipolar world model has failed. People everywhere have shown their desire to choose
their own destiny, preserve their own cultural identity, and oppose the West's attempts at military,
financial, political and ideological domination."
- Vladimir Putin
"While the human politics of the crisis in Ukraine garner all the headlines, it is the gas
politics that in many ways lies at the heart of the conflict."
What does a pipeline in Afghanistan have to do with the crisis in Ukraine?
Everything. It reveals the commercial interests that drive US policy. Just as the War in Afghanistan
was largely fought to facilitate the transfer of natural gas from Turkmenistan to the Arabian Sea,
so too, Washington engineered the bloody coup in Kiev to cut off energy supplies from Russia
to Europe to facilitate the US pivot to Asia.
This is why policymakers in Washington are reasonably satisfied with the outcome of the war in
Afghanistan despite the fact that none of the stated goals were achieved. Afghanistan is not a functioning
democracy with a strong central government, drug trafficking has not been eradicated, women haven't
been liberated, and the infrastructure and school systems are worse than they were before the war.
By every objective standard the war was a failure. But, of course, the stated goals were just
public relations blather anyway. They don't mean anything. What matters is gas, namely the
vast untapped reserves in Turkmenistan that could be extracted by privately-owned US corporations
who would use their authority to control the growth of US competitors or would-be rivals like China.
That's what the war was all about. The gas is going to be transported via a pipeline from Turkmenistan,
across Afghanistan, Pakistan and India to the Arabian sea, eschewing Russian and Iranian territory.
The completion of the so called TAPI pipeline will undermine the development of an Iranian pipeline,
thus sabotaging the efforts of a US adversary.
The TAPI pipeline illustrates how Washington is aggressively securing the assets it needs to
maintain its dominance for the foreseeable future. Now, check this out from The Express Tribune,
July 5:
"Officials of Pakistan, India, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan are set to meet in Ashgabat next
week to push ahead with a planned transnational gas pipeline connecting the four countries and
reach a settlement on the award of the multi-billion-dollar project to US companies.
"The US is pushing the four countries to grant the lucrative pipeline contract to its energy
giants. Two US firms – Chevron and ExxonMobil – are in the race to become consortium leaders,
win the project and finance the laying of the pipeline," a senior government official said while
talking to The Express Tribune.
Washington has been lobbying for the gas supply project, called Turkmenistan, Afghanistan,
Pakistan and India (Tapi) pipeline, terming it an ideal scheme to tackle energy shortages in
Pakistan. On the other side, it pressed Islamabad to shelve the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline because
of a nuclear standoff with Tehran…
According to officials, Petroleum and Natural Resources Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi will
lead a delegation at the meeting of the TAPI pipeline steering committee on July 8 in Ashgabat.
…At present, bid documents are being prepared in consultation with the Asian Development
Bank, which is playing the role of transaction adviser. The documents will be given to the two
companies only for taking part in the tender.
Chevron is lobbying in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan to clinch a deal, backed by the US
State Department. However, other companies could also become part of the consortium that will
be led either by Chevron or ExxonMobil." (TAPI
pipeline: Officials to finalise contract award in Ashgabat next week, The Express Tribune)
So the pipeline plan is finally moving forward and, as the article notes, "The documents will
be given to the two companies only for taking part in the tender."
Nice, eh? So the State Department applies a little muscle and "Voila", Chevron and Exxon clinch
the deal. How's that for a free market?
And who do you think is going to protect that 1,000 mile stretch of pipeline through hostile
Taliban-controlled Afghanistan?
Why US troops, of course, which is why US military bases are conveniently located up an down
the pipeline route. Coincidence?
Not on your life. Operation "Enduring Freedom" is a bigger hoax than the threadbare war on terror.
So let's not kid ourselves. The war had nothing to do with liberating women or bringing democracy
to the unwashed masses. It was all about power politics and geostrategic maneuvering; stealing resources,
trouncing potential rivals, and beefing up profits for the voracious oil giants. Who doesn't know
that already? Here's more background from the Wall Street Journal:
"Earlier this month, President Obama sent a letter to (Turkmenistan) President Berdimuhamedow
emphasizing a common interest in helping develop Afghanistan and expressing Mr. Obama's support
for TAPI and his desire for a major U.S. firm to construct it.
…Progress on TAPI will also jump-start many of the other trans-Afghan transport projects-including
roads and railroads-that are at the heart of America's "New Silk Road Strategy" for the Afghan
economy.
The White House should understand that if TAPI isn't built, neither U.S. nor U.N. sanctions
will prevent Pakistan from building a pipeline from Iran." (The
Pipeline That Could Keep the Peace in Afghanistan, Wall Street Journal)
Can you see what's going on? Afghanistan, which is central to Washington's pivot strategy, is
going to be used for military bases, resource extraction and transportation. That's it. There's
not going to be any reconstruction or nation building. The US doesn't do that anymore. This is the
stripped-down, no-frills, 21st century imperialism. "No nation for you, buddy. Just give us your
gas and off we'll go." That's how the system works now. It's alot like Iraq –the biggest hellhole
on earth–where "oil production has surged to its highest level in over 30 years". (according to
the Wall Street Journal) And who's raking in the profits on that oil windfall?
Why the oil giants, of course. (ExxonMobil, BP and Shell) Maybe that's why you never read about
what a terrible mistake the war was. Because for the people who count, it really wasn't a mistake
at all. In fact, it all worked out pretty well.
Of course, the US will support the appearance of democracy in Kabul, but the government won't
have any real power beyond the capital. It never did anyway. (Locals jokingly called Karzai the
"mayor of Kabul") As for the rest of the country; it will be ruled by warlords as it has been since
the invasion in 2001. (Remember the Northern Alliance? Hate to break the news, but they're all bloodthirsty,
misogynist warlords who were reinstated by Rumsfeld and Co.)
This is the new anarchic "Mad Max" template Washington is applying wherever it intervenes.
The intention is to dissolve the nation-state in order to remove any obstacle to resource extraction,
which is why failed states are popping up wherever the US sticks its big nose. It's all by design.
Chaos is the objective. Simply put: It's easier to steal whatever one wants when there's no center
of power to resist.
This is why political leaders in Europe are so worried, because they don't like the idea of sharing
a border with Somalia, which is exactly what Ukraine is going to look like when the US is done with
it.
In Ukraine, the US is using a divide and conquer strategy to pit the EU against trading partner
Moscow. The State Department and CIA helped to topple Ukraine's elected President Viktor Yanukovych
and install a US stooge in Kiev who was ordered to cut off the flow of Russian gas to the EU and
lure Putin into a protracted guerilla war in Ukraine. The bigwigs in Washington figured that, with
some provocation, Putin would react the same way he did when Georgia invaded South Ossetia in 2006.
But, so far, Putin has resisted the temptation to get involved which is why new puppet president
Petro Poroshenko has gone all "Jackie Chan" and stepped up the provocations by pummeling east Ukraine
mercilessly. It's just a way of goading Putin into sending in the tanks.
But here's the odd part: Washington doesn't have a back-up plan. It's obvious by the way
Poroshenko keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. That demonstrates
that there's no Plan B. Either Poroshenko lures Putin across the border and into the conflict, or
the neocon plan falls apart, which it will if they can't demonize Putin as a "dangerous aggressor"
who can't be trusted as a business partner.
So all Putin has to do is sit-tight and he wins, mainly because the EU needs Moscow's gas. If
energy supplies are terminated or drastically reduced, prices will rise, the EU will slide back
into recession, and Washington will take the blame. So Washington has a very small window to draw
Putin into the fray, which is why we should expect another false flag incident on a much larger
scale than the fire in Odessa. Washington is going to have to do something really big and make it
look like it was Moscow's doing. Otherwise, their pivot plan is going to hit a brick wall. Here's
a tidbit readers might have missed in the Sofia News Agency's novinite site:
"Ukraine's Parliament adopted .. a bill under which up to 49% of the country's gas pipeline
network could be sold to foreign investors. This could pave the way for US or EU companies,
which have eyed Ukrainian gas transportation system over the last months.
…Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk was earlier quoted as saying that the bill would allow
Kiev to "attract European and American partners to the exploitation and modernization of Ukraine's
gas transportation," in a situation on Ukraine's energy market he described as "super-critical".
Critics of the bill have repeatedly pointed the West has long been interest in Ukraine's pipelines,
with some seeing in the Ukrainian revolution a means to get access to the system. (Ukraine
allowed to sell up to 49% of gas pipeline system, novinite.com)
Boy, you got to hand it to the Obama throng. They really know how to pick their coup-leaders,
don't they? These puppets have only been in office for a couple months and they're already giving
away the farm.
And, such a deal! US corporations will be able to buy up nearly half of a pipeline that moves
60 percent of the gas that flows from Russia to Europe. That's what you call a tollbooth, my friend;
and US companies will be in just the right spot to gouge Moscow for every drop of natural gas that
transits those pipelines. And gouge they will too, you can bet on it.
Is that why the State Department cooked up this loony putsch, so their fatcat, freeloading friends
could rake in more dough?
This also explains why the Obama crowd is trying to torpedo Russia's other big pipeline project
called Southstream. Southstream is a good deal for Europe and Russia. On the one hand, it would
greatly enhance the EU's energy security, and on the other, it will provide needed revenues for
Russia so they can continue to modernize, upgrade their dilapidated infrastructure, and improve
standards of living. But "the proposed pipeline (which) would snake about 2,400 kilometers, or roughly
1,500 miles, from southern Russia via the Black Sea to Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary and ultimately
Austria. (and) could handle about 60 billion cubic meters of natural gas a year, enough to allow
Russian exports to Europe to largely bypass Ukraine" (New York Times) The proposed pipeline further
undermines Washington's pivot strategy, so Obama, the State Department and powerful US senators
(Ron Johnson, John McCain, and Chris Murphy) are doing everything in their power to torpedo the
project.
"What gives Vladimir Putin his power and control is his oil and gas reserves and West and Eastern
Europe's dependence on them," Senator Johnson said in an interview. "We need to break up his stranglehold
on energy supplies. We need to bust up that monopoly." (New York Times)
What a bunch of baloney. Putin doesn't have a monopoly on gas. Russia only provides 30 percent
of the gas the EU uses every year. And Putin isn't blackmailing anyone either. Countries in the
EU can either buy Russian gas or not buy it. It's up to them. No one has a gun to their heads. And
Gazprom's prices are competitive too, sometimes well-below market rates which has been the case
for Ukraine for years, until crackpot politicians started sticking their thumb in Putin's eye at
every opportunity; until they decided that that they didn't have to pay their bills anymore because,
well, because Washington told them not to pay their bills. That's why.
Ukraine is in the mess it's in today for one reason, because they decided to follow Washington's
advice and shoot themselves in both feet. Their leaders thought that was a good idea. So now the
country is broken, penniless and riven by social unrest. Regrettably, there's no cure for stupidity.
The neocon geniuses apparently believe that if they sabotage Southstream and nail down 49 percent
ownership of Ukraine's pipeline infrastructure, then the vast majority of Russian gas will have
to flow through Ukrainian pipelines. They think that this will give them greater control over Moscow.
But there's a glitch to this plan which analyst Jeffrey Mankoff pointed out in an article titled
"Can Ukraine Use Its Gas Pipelines to Threaten Russia?". Here's what he said:
"The biggest problem with this approach is a cut in gas supplies creates real risks for the
European economy… In fact, Kyiv's efforts to siphon off Russian gas destined to Europe to offset
the impact of a Russian cutoff in January 2009 provide a window onto why manipulating gas supplies
is a risky strategy for Ukraine. Moscow responded to the siphoning by halting all gas sales
through Ukraine for a couple of weeks, leaving much of eastern and southern Europe literally
out in the cold. European leaders reacted angrily, blaming both Moscow and Kyiv for the disruption
and demanding that they sort out their problems. While the EU response would likely be somewhat
more sympathetic to Ukraine today, Kyiv's very vulnerability and need for outside financial
support makes incurring European anger by manipulating gas supplies very risky." (Can
Ukraine Use Its Gas Pipelines to Threaten Russia, two paragraphs)
The funny thing about gas is that, when you stop paying the bills, they turn the heat off. Is
that hard to understand?
So, yes, the State Department crystal-gazers and their corporate-racketeer friends might think
they have Putin by the shorthairs by buying up Ukraine's pipelines, but the guy who owns the gas
(Gazprom) is still in the drivers seat. And he's going to do what's in the best interests of himself
and his shareholders. Someone should explain to John Kerry that that's just how capitalism works.
Washington's policy in Ukraine is such a mess, it really makes one wonder about the competence
of the people who come up with these wacko ideas. Did the brainiacs who concocted this plan really
think they'd be able to set up camp between two major trading partners, turn off the gas, reduce
a vital transit country into an Iraq-type basketcase, and start calling the shots for everyone in
the region?
It's crazy.
Europe and Russia are a perfect fit. Europe needs gas to heat its homes and run its machinery.
Russia has gas to sell and needs the money to strengthen its economy. It's a win-win situation.
What Europe and Russia don't need is the United States. In fact, the US is the problem. As long
as US meddling persists, there's going to be social unrest, division, and war. It's that simple.
So the goal should be to undermine Washington's ability to conduct these destabilizing operations
and force US policymakers to mind their own freaking business. That means there should be a concerted
effort to abandon the dollar, ditch US Treasuries, jettison the petrodollar system, and force the
US to become a responsible citizen that complies with International law.
It won't happen overnight, but it will happen, mainly because everyone is sick and tired of all
the troublemaking.
Some of the most aggressive acts have come from private militias, funded by oligarchs, which
have drawn foreign mercenaries into their ranks as well as extreme right-wingers including self-proclaimed
neo-Nazis.
Those still living in the rebel-held areas are full of foreboding. Viktor Kuznetsov has watched
with mounting worry how protests which he supported against the Kiev administration turned into
a disaster. "We have legitimate grievances in the east. Many of us wanted autonomy, but we didn't
think it would turn into such killing and destruction," he said at his home in Donetsk.
"Some of the separatist groups were undisciplined, out of control, but the government forces have
been treating us like the enemy, bombing us without pity. And they are bringing fascists with them:
they want to drive us from our homes and bring in people from the west [of Ukraine] to take our
homes. There will be nothing but trouble in the future, a lot more deaths."
... Now joining us from Kiev to discuss this is Volodymyr Ishchenko. Volodymyr is a sociologist
studying social protests in Ukraine. He is deputy director of the Center for Society Research in
Kiev and editor of COMMONS: Journal of Social Criticism, and a lecturer in the National University
of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.
WORONCZUK: So, from Kiev, does it look like there's about to be Russian intervention in the eastern
regions?
ISHCHENKO:
No, now it seems more probable, and this move with the humanitarian convoys looking like
little bit dangerous. And to this day there are kind of mass of very contradictory messages
from Ukrainian government, Russian government, and Red Cross.
And it's hardly doubtful that Russia indeed concentrated the troops around Ukrainian border.
It doesn't actually mean that they really have a plan to intervene, but they have a potential
to do this.
And another important thing that's actual: the military situation in the Eastern Ukraine
have changed and rebels are in very critical situation now, where the Ukrainian army made quite
important victories on the local level, and they really have a chance to circle and to cut Donetsk
group of rebels from Lugansk group of rebels and to cut in their supply and making the situation
worse. So this might be a reaction to this military dynamics. But now it's very confusing.
WORONCZUK: Okay. And do you think you can give us a sense of what public opinion is in Ukraine now
that the antiterrorist operation, as Kiev calls it, has lasted now for months?
ISHCHENKO:
I haven't seen the polls results, so I can't say how many percent of Ukrainian population
are supporting or not supporting. If speaking about some anecdotal evidence, it seems that the
population is not really supporting the mobilization of the Ukrainian army, which the government
announced several weeks ago, and taking to the army more and more young--and not only young,
actually--young men. And there were a number of protests against mobilization for missions,
especially in the Western Ukraine.
And, actually, this mobilization of the army has a very interesting class nature. They take
the army much less from the middle-class people in the bigger cities, but they recruit in much
larger ratio, for example, from the villages, taking the poorer guys to the army, very often
using the support of the local administration in the villages, or in the case of the cities
they also sometimes use the support of factories [incompr.] stations management. And in some
cases I was told that, for example, the management in one of industrial Ukrainian cities, Kryvyi
Rih, actually sent this draft cards to all the union members in the factory. So, like in good
old times, the recruitment of the army can be used for political repression as well, against
union activists in this case. And then it appears that the war, which is now waged mostly--it's
not the only reason, but the oligarchs of Ukraine are actually making profits on this war [incompr.]
directly, for example, [incompr.] This war is waged using the blood and power of quite poor
guys. And this is [quite interesting (?)] class division. And like in good old times a century
ago, the poor people are dying for the rich people interests.
WORONCZUK: [snip] interview on Ukraine, that of the recent ban of the Communist Party. Now, you
wrote an article about it recently, and you wrote, quote, this will be "will be only the first step
in outlawing most forms genuine, peaceful opposition in Ukraine." Can you talk about that?
ISHCHENKO:
Yes. That's an important case. And for leftist progressive people in the world, which they
[would probably agree (?)] that Communist Party is not the Communist Party, it's not a genuine
leftist party, it's quite conservative, reactionary, bourgeois Russian nationalist party, which
was for the last at least ten years more interested in cultural division and cultural wars in
Ukraine than the questions of bondage, even church split in Ukraine, than in social class issues.
And this party voted anonymously for Yanukovych repressive wars on January 16, when not even
all party regions, the ruling party MPs, voted for those laws. I would remind that those laws
were [a capitalist who were there (?)] violent phase of Maidan and capitalizing in the toppling
down of Yanukovych then. And the Communist Party was selling the positions in their electoral
list to grand bourgeoisie. For example, the richest woman in the parliament, Oksana Kaletnyk,
was a member of communist parliamentary group.
But what is really important now: that the Communist Party [reframing (?)] is not going to be
banned for being reactionary, conservative Russian nationalist, but for voicing opposition opinion
against the antiterrorist operation and the other decisions of the government. And, for example,
in the official accusations voiced by the Ministry of Justice against the Communist Party, they
say that--I'm almost quoting--the Communist Party expressed overtly negative attitudes for the
actions of Ukrainian military in the Eastern Ukraine. So expressing overtly negative attitudes.
And if [incompr.] militarily, it means a quite plain and simple attack on the freedom of speech.
And now very many Ukrainians are expressing those negative attitudes. And it doesn't mean that
they should be punished for this. And it's very important that this case--the Communist parliamentary
group was disbanded some weeks ago, and the case disband the Communist Party will be or should
be taken to the court in this court session, which should be somewhere in the middle of August.
And all this case is going now in the framework of quite large assault on the political freedoms
in Ukraine, actually, which tend to actually compare to those repressive laws on January 16
passed by the Yanukovych government. And the reach includes--for example, today it was very
important development (but this is not the only one, but only the peak of this): the parliament
passed a bill in the first reading, not fully, but only the first reading, but yet a bill--it's
called "on sanctions". And it was supposed to give a little ground towards [incompr.] sanctions,
primarily against Russian Federation, as other countries in the UN and the United States passed
sanctions following the Ukrainian annexation. But under this pretext, this bill include very
large range of various repressive activities which can be implemented on very abstract grounds
and under no court decision. So, for example, they can ban mass media or disband the party of
social movement under no court decision if their national--if the Council for National Security
and Defense will decide about this. And this [council (?)], this National Security and Defense
Council, is actually a group of a very narrow sort of people, of the top officials in Ukraine.
Its constituency is decided by the president. And it includes the top officials from the law
enforcement agencies, like the Ministry of Defense, the ministry of interior, Security Service,
intelligence, also some officials who are responsible for economic security, like the minister
of finance, the head of the National Bank. And this is not more than 15 people. And they can
decide on these things, like to ban a party, to ban mass media, to arrest the property, without
any court decision. And the [interim (?)] bill will be passed on Thursday to the second reading.
It will be kind of creating a mechanism for establishing of full-scale dictatorship in Ukraine.
And, of course, for many people now in Ukraine, the patriotic feelings are very, very high,
and they can justify many things under the threat of foreign invasion.
WORONCZUK: But do you think that this sanctions--.
ISHCHENKO:
It's really important to see that this attack on the political freedoms cannot be justified
with this Russian threat. It's really exceeding what can be justified in this situation. For
example, I understand some suspicion of danger to national interests, that it can arrest property,
ban mass media, disband movements, disband parties, and it doesn't even involve some real participation
in the armed struggle. The grounds for the sanctions, as it's said in this law, are very abstract.
As I said, it can be some things like real or even potential threat to national interests, to
national security, sovereignty on territorial integrity of Ukraine. You can put here very many
things, even voicing some opposition opinions [on the floor (?)] it's quite clear that the opposition
media might be in danger after this law may be passed this week.
WORONCZUK: Well, as a lecturer at a university in Kiev, do you think that this sanctions bill can
also be a threat to academic freedom?
ISHCHENKO:
Yes, but as I said, it's not the only development in this assault on political freedoms in
Ukraine. Recently, Serhiy Kvit, who had been new minister of education, wrote a letter, official
letter to university administrations allowing them to sack university lecturers on the grounds
of their immorality. They found a kind of article in the labor code of Ukraine where it's possible
to sack lecturers, the lecturers and the teachers working in the schools and education sphere,
and it should be kind of like a morality of [authorities (?)]. And it's also possible to sac
them on this immorality grounds.
But what he makes is connecting this immorality thing, which can be interpreted very widely--huge
space for interpretations what is moral and what is immoral [incompr.] And [incompr.] connects
this morality, I think, to the political position of those lecturers. And this is done under
the pretext that many (especially Eastern Ukrainian) lecturers supported separatist movement.
And now he says that it's immoral to let them teach in the Ukrainian universities.
But what is the problem and actually the essence of this document: that if a person participating
in some, let's say, terrorist activities, an armed struggle against the state, this person should
be prosecuted by the security service or other law enforcement agencies, he should be taken
to the court, in the court, to prove that this person was actually breaking the law or were
participating in the armed struggle. A nd if they prove it, their punishment for this unlawful
activity would definitely exclude any possibility to teach in the university.
But why youth and university administrations against--like, it's a kind of a repressive factor
pfor those people, for those lecturers who were not participating in any kind of real terrorist
activity or who were organizing referenda and unlawful referenda in Donetsk and Lugansk regions,
but precisely for those who are voicing some opposition opinions. And in this situation they
can be threatened, they can be blackmailed, and they can be punished without any court decision
on there. They can be sacked from the universities. They can lose their job position. And, of
course, this is another mechanism of establishing censorship and oppression in Ukraine.
WORONCZUK: Okay. Volodymyr Ishchenko, thank you so much for joining us.
Volodymyr Ishchenko
is a sociologist studying social protests in Ukraine. He is deputy director of the Centre for Society
Research in Kiev, an editor of Commons: Journal for Social Criticism, and a lecturer in the National
University of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.
DISCLAIMER: Please note that transcripts for The Real News Network are typed from a recording
of the program. TRNN cannot guarantee their complete accuracy.
This interview makes clear there has been a purge of opinions opposing the Kiev rulers' policies
and practices. This is a very worrying situation for a European country. More so since these
policies are persued by notorious oligarchs, executed by neo-Nazi forces and are aimed against
a large Russian-speaking minority in the east which has been denied their basic civil rights.
One wonders how come the US and EU governments are not just tolerating but actively backing
these dictatorship-like policies.
Recently (August 5) and according to John Ging, Director of the Coordination and Response
Division at the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), of the 3.9
million people living in areas affected by the fighting, 117,910 people escaping from the insurgents
have relocated to another part of Ukraine, while 740,000 others fleeing from the Ukrainian army
have crossed into Russia, bringing the total of displaced persons to 857,910.
It is because a quarter of the population has left that the number of victims is not higher.
However, it has already reached at least 1,367 dead (mostly civilians) and 4,087 injured.
If Putin / Russia is so bad. Why do most of the refugees flee to Russia?
salutary presence on TRNN of a solidly anti-communist and anti-russian spontaneist, a classic
de facto tool of the "drang nach osten" of the "great-western" TM plutocracies ...
why otherwise doesn't he mention:
i) that UKR's south-eastern region almost saw no maidan-like agitation?
ii) these uncomfortable details of recent UKR elections, according to en.wikipedia...
12,2 million voted in 2014 vs 24,1 million in 2010.
very telling: votes for poroshenko *and* tymoshenko together in 2014 (12,17) were fewer than
for yanukovych alone in 2010 (12,48)
2014's "triumph of democracy"
Nominees: Petro Poroshenko vs Yulia Tymoshenko
Popular vote: 9,857,308 vs 2,310,085 (12,167,393)
Percentage: 54.70% vs 12.81%
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainia...
2010's "triumph of putin's thugs"
Nominees: Viktor Yanukovych vs Yulia Tymoshenko
Popular vote: 12,481,266 vs 11,593,357 (24,074,623)
Percentage: 48.95% vs 45.47%
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainia...
therefore simple math says that the 2014 election was "more democratic" since people who
vote against the "great-western"TM plutocracies should never be allowed to vote, and properly
so in 2014 they didn't/de facto were excluded...
a similar feat was managed successfully by hillary+slick willie in haiti's last election,
by excluding aristide.
next triumph for the "great-western"TM plutocracies: similarly denying venezuela's dark-skinned
"lesser people" a real electoral option so all that oil money starts to flow back again to elizabeth-arden
capitals
where it belongs "by manifest destiny".
Confused on what you are alluding to ...or maybe its the adjectives? Are you saying one side
or the other initiated measures to "suppress the vote of one party or the other. Somebody help
me.
usa...I agree. I had trouble also with 'erpiu'. It may be a commenter communicating in his/her
second language and the structural grammar is different?
usa....more Ukranian soldiers have defected to Russia. 17 yesterday. Brings total to approx.
500. 30 have been imprisoned in Russia and the rest are free to stay if they want to.
Real News, you have put subtitles up many times, you should have this time. I appreciate
Ishchenko's concern regarding the biased drafting and repression of any anti-state activities.
But all they have now is a popularly elected president. Until they have a popularly elected
parliament, which it appears will occur in October, the government making the laws is still
the same people; or more accurately people with the same attitudes; as those who have run the
government as a kleptocracy since independence in 1991. So I suggest more optimism and more
patience, and allow things to take their course.
No country dramatically changes its course in a short time. It takes years and decades before
it occurs; look at what is occurring in the Arab countries.
The eastern rebellion was obviously stimulated and sustained by Russia, part of Putin's foreign
policy. And apparently a substantial portion of the residents of that region went along with
it. But there was no justification for it, because Euromaidan wasn't even over before it started.
So until it is stopped, which the rebels are not allowing to happen until they are defeated
militarily, it is not possible to expect a fledging government to not act as the current government
is now doing.
I suggest that in one year things will look much different.
"The eastern rebellion was obviously stimulated and sustained by Russia..."
It would be interesting to see how the involvement of the US State Dept. (Mrs. Nuand-Kagan,
of neocon persuasion) and of the former CIA Director Mr. Brennan can be harmonized with this
statement. Plus here are the $5 billions invested in Ukraine by the US; Mr. Buden's son Hunter
on a hunt for mineral resources in Ukraine, the presence of NATO on RF's threshold, and the
strange story of MH17 plane, when suddenly the mightiest and the most technologically equipped
state does not want to produce satellite images of the crash (and relies on very unreliable
stories and pics in social media), all while demonizing Russia.
Still looks like "The eastern rebellion was obviously stimulated and sustained by Russia?".
Well, there is Wolfowitz doctrine:
"Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the
territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that
posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new
regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from
dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to
generate global power."
If the ongoing tragedy in Eastern Ukraine still looks like "part of Putin's foreign policy,"
here is an excellent overview by Stephan Kohen: "The New Cold War and the Necessity of Patriotic
Heresy; US fallacies may be leading to war with Russia:"
http://www.thenation.com/artic...
Anna, whether or not the US is genuine in its efforts toward the Ukraine is irrelevant when
it comes to assessing Putin's objective. Just as Russia should leave the Ukraine alone, so should
the EU and the US.
Like we should have left alone Texas or California? Putin has a right to watch out for his
own interests in his own backyard especially when the West denies him Russia access to hard
currency via trade that is desperately needed for modernization...or is that the plan by the
West all along? Should Russia split from trade with EU and align itself with China India and
emerging Asian economies the West is screwed...despite Obamas TPP negotiations and increasing
military presence in that region.
Wave, Putin has every right to do what he can to facilitate Russian people who live in Russia
to succeed in life. The Ukraine is a sovereign country, and Putin has no right at all to get
it to behave as he likes. Neither does the US, or the EU, or any other country in the world.
No country can control how its economy functions, if it is a free enterprise country, so
no agreements by any country with any other country will determine how their individual citizens
conduct the businesses they run. All these trade agreements are nonsense, and do no country
any good. Free trade, allowing for developing countries to control their imports, is never controlled
by any international agreements. They are little boys and girls playing the childhood game king
of the hill.
Too late....10 years of CIA/Mossad/State Dept. work in the Ukraine to bring about a fascist
govt. in such an undemocratic barbaric 'war' is the consequence of years of covert activity
by the West and political Zionist -- post agreement with US/Russia/NATO to NOT build up missile
defense all around Russia.
Very little and very propagandized news is coming out of the West as to the atrocities being
visited upon everyday people and their homes and liveihoods and infrastructure. We do NOT know
the death toll estimated to over 2000 and no figures on injuries and civilian deaths. We do
know that the same behaviors put onto Palestinians is being put onto the Eastern Ukrainians.
No water. No Electricity. No Gas. No medical and supplies and humanitarian needs being allowed
in. Bombing of areas populated with civilians and their homes.
It's a MESS! It is NOT about the Ukraine having had a corrupt or bad leader. The We the People
were peacefully making that change themselves. It is about political fascist Zionism using a
peaceful protest to infiltrate with private contractors (Blackwater) and neonazi goons from
Poland and Austria. It is about the self appointed govt. supported by the U.S. being almost,
if not, 100% Zionist Oligarchs! It is about tyranny! It is about 400,000-700,000 people migrating
to Russia for safety and the displaced in the Ukraine we don't even have numbers on. It is about
a Ukraine Tyranny so bad they don't care about their Govt. soldiers to feed, cloth, supply them
humanly and they are cooking snakes on sticks to eat. Much AWOL of the Ukraine Govt. soldiers,
who see the evil of this war. They SEE they are fighting against Joe, Mo, Stan from the neighborhoods,
not military!
WHY is the U.S. Press and even THE REALNEWS doing so little on this atrocity??? Why are they
NOT putting on the voice of the People? Why are they NOT showing the atrocities happening to
everyday people of Mom, Pop, Gram, Gramps and Baby?
A people, an everyday people, took it upon themselves to peacefully attempt to replace a
corrupt leader. The Fascists took it over and replaced it with blood, tears, limbs, rubble,
lack of
resources and a 'appointed' govt. much more corrupt than the former! The Western/Israeli Fascists
make cockroaches look like Caviar they are so corrupt and inhumane and lying to We the People
all over the Planet.
Well the Bald Eagle can claw and scratch till hell freezes over --but I've never known a
Bald Eagle to outdo a Russian Bear! And the Russian people are Bears with enormous courage and
ability
to live on practically nothing, and fight fascism and political Zionism to their last breath!
But they won't take that last breath until they eat, chew, and spit out the heart of fascism.
Which is why we are not all speaking German!
Even though the Russian people know their President is not perfect and have their complaints
as to the left over Oligarchs in Russia--they well understand and internalize his hatred for
fascism. Thus he now enjoys the largest support from the Russian people since his leadership
began. 90%
Well said! And thanks for the time writing this because that is my understanding of the events
there but obviously you are more involved in this. And to add, a sharp eye can spot independent
films paid for by the State Department and CIA. Concerning your post, the same happened in Yugoslavia
under different circumstances. To add to your frustration about US Mass Media you can add another
in Qatar that has its American version making its debut over the last two years. I have posted
comments with references and themes similar to yours about Ukraine and have had them systematically
"deleted"--with no inflammatory nor racists remarks. I call this "Shaping the Message" and now
am entirely disgusted with this news organization. Qatar is in the camp of the West and they
all are making its citizens look like fools...clowns or both. And to add, you may be frustrated
with TRNN but be grateful they allow you to voice your opinion and share information with others.
usa....Thank you and yes I am aware of Qatar, just not so much as I am of others. And yes
I am grateful for TRNN...and the majority of others who come together here to share ideas, information,
opinions, and on lucky days solution ideas.
Meet the National Endowment for Democracy. Just love right wingers enthusiasm to bring democracy
to the rest of the world:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades....
Here again we have to agree to disagree. I am quite familiar with the Ukraine, having been
there three times, and have regular conversation with a friend who lives there. And I have never
heard a single Ukrainian promote this view. I suspect it comes from you reading leftist literature
and Russian news sources.
usa....Your last sentence is idiocy and trite I don't read 'leftist' literature or 'rightist'
and probably wouldn't recognize one from the other. You are a little labeled box person Warren.
I am not. I do read news sources from the G-8 and the Middle East and South of our Border.
I suppose Russia should just allow things to take their course. They should have done that
in WWI and WWII also. What harm could the fascists do in Ukraine anyway? More optimism and more
patience, that should do the trick.
gregory, if you are proposing that Putin is aiding the rebels in the eastern Ukraine because
he wants them to have freedom and full achievement, I suggest you are very misinformed. That
man is a total crook, totally corrupt, totally self centered, who never does anything except
what will enhance his own power, money, and fame.
I am not suggesting that the current government of the Ukraine are angels, but elections
moving toward a reasonable government is the only viable solution for the Ukrainians, and the
should be left alone; which Putin is not doing. You are obviously intelligent. And I refuse
to believe you really believe that what is occurring in Russia is peace and democracy. If you
do believe that, I suggest you are further absurd. And I hope when the Crimea people in a few
years come back and beg to be part of the Ukraine, you will wake up and smell the coffee.
Totally Totally Totally. That's Warren --all or nothing. I don't know where Warren is getting
his info as to Russia. This is a country shot down for politics of resources post WW11. A country
that is responsible for the West's freedom. As we the People that is. Yet our Govt. took the
credit! This is a country that fights fascism furiously. Russia has as much Peace and Democracy
as the U.S. --less much of the non-essentials we enjoy. They have a rotten justice system. We
brag about ours? They are still coming up from being 'politically' beaten down. Yes Russians
has corruption. You calling the kettle black Warren? Yes, Oligarchs are still there, but the
fascist ones are mostly gone or are in prison or heading up the Ukraine's self appointed govt.!
Yes, Putin has to play games. All of it just like here. But Putin HATES fascism and LOVES Russia
with a passion! And if he is helping the Freedom Lovers of the Ukraine then I say GOOD. Horrible
atrocities are being committed. Fascists always go after the unarmed and the civilians. Their
playboard is so easy to read. Same moves all the time.
When someone posts as Clorox sane and as humanly devoid of empathy and understanding in an
insane world, as you do Warren, there is a lot to say about who is really insane. You are so
far from the 'Reality' you always speak about; and so far from the 'consciousness' you always
speak about --it's like you are reading it from script on Planet Earth from Mars with moondust
in your eyes.
juda, I can't respond. If you actually believe that life in Russia is like here in the States,
you and I have a fundamentally different view of reality. By the way, have you ever been to
Russia, or personally know someone who lives there now?
usa....your reply to the contents of my comment are weak. As usual you spin my comment. I
did NOT say life in Russia is LIKE here. I was quite explicit actually. Different view Warren?
LOL you have no reality view of Russia. Actaully I doubt you are in reality about Western
Ukraine as far as the We the People on the street. Yes, certainly, for many years.
usa...What you quote me is correct. However it does NOT say, nor did I say, 'Life in Russia
is LIKE here.' In fact if you read in context and syntax you would have seen some differences
and explanations. You do have 'selective' reading skills Warren. Peace and democracy do NOT
mean a country is 'like' other countries of Peace and Democracy. Again you picky pick with a
non-truth and run away from the issue. Childish. Too much fish oil in your diet...you sound
like you are on Mercury?
Sacking professors on immoral grounds? Sounds like the Palestinian issue at most Universities
here in the States. Terrorism in Ukraine? Wait till they get our version of the Patriot act.
Looks like the same plays out of the same playbook used around the world by fascist governments
and their billionaire buddies. AND...the Jewish oligarchs love the anti-communist thing...now
they have access to a police and a military in the state to suppress any nationalization of
resources.
Contrary to the unsubstantiated rumor (most likely a complete fabrication) that Ukraine Destroyed
a Russian Convoy, the rebels have inflicted serious damage on the Ukrainian military machine. And
unlike the zero-proof offered by Ukraine, I have a few videos to show.
Descriptions from Jacob Dreizin, a US citizen who speaks Russian and reads Ukrainian.
"The defeat of Ukrainian troops in Stepanovka part 1. In Stepanovka Ukrainian army left dozens of
pieces of equipment, a large quantity of ammunition, classified material. Locals said that the Ukrainian
officers fatten when their soldiers were starving. In the Ukrainian army thrives drunkenness and
panic."
Dreizin Synopsis 1:
Destroyed or abandoned Ukrainian equipment in/near Stepanovka in the south, the first of two Stepanovka
videos. The first couple of minutes are very interesting, with lots of destroyed or abandoned equipment
and milia carting off captured munitions and rummaging through stuff. Then a funky local man who
tells the cameraman about how the Ukrainian officers didn't take care of their men and darted off
leaving their men stranded, how the Ukrainians all drink heavily, how their morale is low and they
panic during any kind of battle, and how they don't want to engage the militia up-close. Also you
can see a stack of grad rockets on the ground around 5:50 and then again around 7:20.
But the most memorable quote is from around 7:18 to 7:52, as follows ...
"In the Stepanovka area, guys are jumping to go into battle, to kill the enemy even with bare hands.
In particular, in the assault units that captured Stepanovka, there are very many volunteers
from Semyonovka [a town near Slaviansk that was largely destroyed by Ukrainian shelling],
who are just burning with a thirst for vengeance for the acts of genocide that the fascists waged
there. I think that for Ukrainian soldiers, it's really best not to run into these guys. This
is the mindset the Ukrainian army is fighting."
Translated text from the video URL "In Stepanovka Ukrainian army left dozens of pieces of equipment,
a large quantity of ammunition, classified material. Showing the shocking footage of the deceased
in the fire department of a Ukrainian paratroopers."
Dreizin Synopsis 2:
Destroyed or abandoned Ukrainian equipment near Stepanovka in the south, the second of two Stepanovka
videos. This video is more interesting, much more equipment here, best part starts around 2:50.
Overall, for both (1) and (2), the narrator is describing the abandoned weapons, the tactical situation,
and the human situation. In part (2) from 3:09-3:21, the narrator says that a militia burial party
has already been to that particular spot, and along with a priest has taken the remains of 40 Ukrainians
killed there and buried them nearby.
Video 3: Lugansk
Dreizin says "Warning! This may kill your appetite" Video URO description says "Consumed column
Lviv airmobile brigade APU by the people's militia".
- How legitimate was the creation of a virtually private battalions, which it is not clear
how funded?
- Oligarchs long dreamed about creating their own armies on pseudo legal grounds. Those death
squads (aka battalions) ? That legal status do they have status? Who are members of those paramilitary
units they anyway? The ins and outs of these paramilitary formations nobody knows.
Is a powerful "bibloporina" business operation - from the budget, and this way oligarchs gets
personal armies! Feudalism in full bloom. Maidan fighters ruined the country, has unleashed a civil
war, which gradually evolved into a hybrid war. And instead of kleptomaniac in power they brought
bunch of marauding cannibals, who cheerfully devour the corpse of Ukraine. Shouting "Viva Ukraine
!" in the process...
- Look how the last week, the leadership of the battalion "Zoloti Vorota" called the editors.
This batallion I think was created as a result of the disbandment of the battalion "Crimea".
they tell us that 300 soldiers who were stationed near Kiev, were threatened by other battalions.
Officers were called the press. They said that the soldiers buy food and uniform at their own
expense.
Look at the scandals between Kolomoisky in the face Filatov and Levochkina in the face Lyashko
on the topic: who is financing the battalion "Aidar"
Nobody tell about those private armies openly. But the businessman Boris Filatov, Deputy
Governor Mr. Kolomoisky, on your page in Facebook at the end of February, he proposed a strategy
of behavior with those who disagrees with EuroMaidan: "...No extremist statements please. Please
give those bastards any promises, any guarantees, make any concessions. And when we should hang
them ? We will hang them somewhat later...".
Now it is unlear how this new far right ideology put on the body of the country?!. The country
consciously is now split between "Ukrops"/ "Fascists" and "Colorad bugs", between "patriots"
and "separatists", "Bandervits" and "moskal redneck" as call theml Miss Farion. And this trash
talking is going on from ancient times, when Klyuyev, according to some politicians, began to
finance "Svodoba". Hi did all of this with their utilitarian purposes: let's get then to the
second round and eliminate Timoshenko, so that it became the second round between Yanukovych
and Tiahnybok! The most amazing, that a bunch of suckers bought this scam! And to whom you later
can explain that in reality Miss Farion was a Communist, and Mr. Tyagnibok - Komsomolets! That
those ultranationlists speak in the family in Russian and if they dream about Ukrainian national
idea, they dream it only as lying a coffin in white slippers! It's all about money.
But many
people believe untal nationalist nonsense that they spread -- That in the Eastern Ukraine lives
"Moskals" and "we should fight them". Similarly, in the East people started to hate zapadentsi!
That's because no one has explained to them that in Western Ukraine live the same poor, opressed
by oligarchs people, with the only difference that they speak Ukrainian. And only for that they
are called "Banderovts".
Americans once did the same... All of us probably read Fenimore Cooper? All watched movies with
Gojko the Mitic about Indians? So what is the difference between a massacre of "ukropov" and "coloradi"
from the massacre of Apache and the Mohicans? Nothing! They clean each other's territory with their
own hands. Beauty! The goal of the USA is achieved.
Samurai without a sword
- Do the right regional authorities to address the Council on the introduction of martial law?
For example, Kherson region already asked... But martial law involves not only the appearance of
roadblocks, etc., In any legal directory you can find the answer by saying that in the case of the
introduction of martial law actually recognizes the fact of armed aggression. And it goes rebound
will backfire on the government, which finds itself in the awkward position of member of armed interstate
conflict with the status of a belligerent country." Perhaps we now no matter what the consequences
might be, but... Probably there will be restrictions relating to the international, humanitarian,
social, economic and other aspects.
"Just the other day I took a ride in Kherson and Mykolayiv regions. The only sane roadblock stands
at the entrance of the Kherson oblast Mykolaiv - before refueling "OKKO". All other are just for
clowns.
But what is the goal of war?!. Tha goal that makes sense? Yes, it's about money. And that's wny
the arrangement of the same roadblocks is classic dilettantism. Well, with several commanrs any
roadblock will be cleared in a minute. Everybody will be eliminated by a single group of trained
professionals. All! Procs will come in a junk car dressed as the farmers, and eliminate everybody
in a minite or several minutes! Do you want it?
What is the current war? This high-tech, very expensive team sport for a very well-trained professionals
who are trained for it for months, if not years. Amateurs have nothing to do in such a war, as the
boy from the yard club "Leather glove" has no chances in a fight with Klitschko.
Now if there was indeed a war, someone wanted someone else to win. And to win, you have to gather
professionals, properly to equip them, to give them the means of war, insurance, a decent salary,
their families compensation. Believe me, the professionals, which is more than enough, quickly create
a living hell for the opponent.
We could have send to the East a few subversive groups that point blank destroyed the instigators
of all this turmoil. And the instigators are well known to all.
But instead of making such a simple and logical moves, they announce the mobilization of cannon
fodder who are qualified to fight a modern warfare, about the same as I to dance in Kiriv ballet
troup! And send them all to slaughter.
So it might well be that the pupose of this carnage is diffirent. People can go to the fight
due to thier patriotism, but no one will explains to them that they are dying for the financial
interests Poroshenko, Kolomoisky, Levochkin, Firtash and their ilk. Who orgnized the oligarchic
revolt called "Maidan"!
All say they die for their country. Some for "Ukrane", some "for DND, LNR" and some for something
else. The main thing in this is to branwash people, come up with insulting nicknames for the opposite
side, and then quietly send victims of propaganda to kill each other! And that is what they're doing
now!
But there is another benefit: on war, you can deduct all. You want better salaries and pensions?
How you can even think about it! We have a war! Oh, no gas? Everything will freeze in the cities,
because there was no alternative to centralized heating on gas," no? This is nothing you will die
if you try to put a small stove in the 34-storey high-rise building with plastic Windows. It not
this terrible!
- I'm not even talking about the fact that all ATO initiated and consecrated by the decision
of the Security Council. It is not legal, because all decisions of the Security Council are merely
Advisory in nature. But let's look at the terminology. In any case, if this is a "war" there ares
some legal norms. If this is an "anti-terrorist operation" different rules allies. At least no one
has repealed the fundamental principle of the Constitution: it is unacceptable to use the army against
its own people. Moreover, in armed confrontation as a domestic conflict, should excluded the use
of the Armed forces. You need to change the Constitution to eliminate this provision. To make the
death of civilians from large caliber artillery "lawful".
- ATO partially in some aspects compared to conventional war. This is a war without war. As a
samurai without a sword is no different from a samurai with a sword, but he is the only one without
a sword, " now we have from the same series!
- Involved in the antiterrorist operation equivalent to the combatants?
It's only words! But what really who will write about the cause of death and place of death of
the people of those battalions - no one knows! Will the families get to pay and some means for existance
is unknown!.. So far, the people buys together wests and ammunition to those who sent in this meat
grinder without proper training.
Sane people do not do such things! Because if one does not understand how to fight, he will sonn
be killed.
- From the state...
- What?! We have no state! As the singing group "Nautilus Pompilius", "country dies, as the ancient
lizard, with new virus in the cells." Now - the government of Ukraine was killed on the Maidan.
And now we are seeing the last phase, when boots and socks were removed from the corpse.
Those who came to power, didn't even bother to organize the impeachment of Yanukovych! Very slow
to bring its rear on a stool and start masterstate!
But Yanukovych has filed a lawsuit. And I wonder how you going to get around Europe? Because
impeachment is not declared, there is an undeniable formal violation of the Ukrainian Constitution.
Does EU recognises that it is possible to violate the Constitution? On what basis?
Apart from pink Patriotic sniffles, then on what basis can the approve the verdict that "Yanukovych
is "Thief" and "negohot" is "swell"? Formal grounds there.
I told them from the very beginning: "you'll iether shoot Yanukovych, or declare the impeachment,"
I said, "Oh, you enemy of the people, he ran away from the country".
Where the Constitution says that impeachment is not needed? Yes, he ran away and now explains,
they say, you guys are rebels and conspirators, and with the help of European-American invaders
tried to kill me. And this is the basis for regime change? And now you own half the country believes
"neohotoi", cannibals and marauders. And right it is.
"Cocktails" at a height of 10 thousand m
- In accordance with international standards, in particular with the UN Charter, the Hague Convention
and the resolution of the UN General Assembly in 1974, the recognition of armed aggression correlates
with the Declaration of war, and - in fact - has the same effects of the international legal character.
But since Ukraine is Russia's war was not announced...
- I beg you!
- ...however, at the level of even the foreign Ministry between the lines it sounds thesis: the
country is at war with Russia. I'm not even ex-Minister Mr. Demizu mean with a song about Putin.
But the fact is inspired thought - "Russia is the enemy". And if so, why are the soldiers of the
72nd brigade, escaping from fire "separatists" or someone else, entered the territory of the Russian
Federation? In the rear of the enemy? So it turns out?
- What is the enemy? That means closed the Embassy of the Russian Federation, severed diplomatic
relations? All these tales of the Vienna woods - for ordinary people to have something to justify
what they are sent to fight a non-existent enemy. That they were lost and never returned.
- From a legal point of view...
- Any kind of law we are not talking! Remember: there is no law of the country. It was killed
on the Maidan. And when somebody shot "Boeing" - doesn't matter who it is, I can say: it's "Molotov
cocktails and stones finally flew to a height of 10 thousand meters.
I am not opposed to killing any creature, which was so brash that against him people go out with
guns in their hands. But that don't mean you have to admit it right! And even more to glorify! Same
thing I said in 2005. "Well, you gave Yanukovych to formally consolidate his victory. Made the third
round, Europe interfered... Yes, it can be done, as the saying goes, "in a state of extreme necessity."
But it cannot be recognized as legitimate.
If I was someone mortally hurt and I will kill offended, I'm ready, what if I get caught, go
to jail. Well, then that's my fate... But I would never insist that my actions are legitimate and
are not banalnym lynching, even 200 times the fair!
- Not so long ago the President signed the law No. 1604-VII about raising the age limit for military
service in the reserve, which can be used for "complementing" the Armed forces of Ukraine: from
55 to 60 years for Junior and senior officers, to 65 years for the higher officers.
- Now let him and goes to war! Not so sacred mystery that at all times the elite had the right
"to milk the suckers", but only if in a difficult period these same elites went into the army first,
and were willing to die for their country. Count Suvorov personally crossed the Alps, Prince Bagration
was killed from wounds received in battle. Has anyone seen some of the representatives of our elites
or their sons in the real battle?
Where is our "shokoladny Prince Alexei? He is quite of military age. In any army, in which the
trench is sitting? No. Well then "do pobachennja". Then, in the country there is no war. And if
and formed a battalion, "C", only to protect the côte d'azur.
I was told by one of the politicians that his district is Odessa region - was sent to 350 mobilization
orders. The army managed to pick up three, and one of them went willingly. The rest just ran away!..
And how many women have been crushed all over Ukraine military recruiting stations!.. Note, the
Verkhovna Rada managed to declare mobilization, not declaring war!
- Meanwhile, prosecutors open criminal cases on the facts "evasion of military service during
partial mobilization." In Kiev now being investigated 17 such cases in Lviv just recently opened
2. So, the advice of a lawyer: if you come to the agenda that citizens do?
- Run away! To fight to the last. Of course, if caught, can for a couple of years to plant. But
better a couple of years ill to serve, than to return home in good zinc coffin.
The Cabinet decided to create a civil service of Ukraine on the issues of the Autonomous Republic
of Crimea, Sevastopol and internally displaced persons". About "temporarily displaced" is very unclear:
who falls under this status? On what basis?
Let this power now will tell "temporarily displaced"why we need to bomb the Donbass and why given
the Crimea without a fight. What's the difference? Is there any secret of the red Army? You might
Crimea is not lost, and sold "dogovornyak"? If not, why not bomb? Why not run across the isthmus,
did not satisfy the ATO, not encourage people there to fight? And maybe people are more willing
for the Crimea would be fought than any "Zombabwe" and "Luganda"?
No, really, why the Peninsula do not want to repel force? Maybe a fair statement that is now
sitting in power chairs sold Crimea for $ 2.5 billion.? And when Europe and America went to Putin
with "regard", he showed them the "proof": bought, they say, it honestly. And now that our figures
say?
To publicly admit that they can't. But unequivoca somehow. I personally believe in this version.
Because is actually very strange: no one fights for the beautiful Crimea, but for "DND" with "LNR"populated
"moscardini cattle", life put wads. Is there any logic in such a war?
About the "good Belgians and black colonels
"Immigrants from Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts do not want to look for a job in a new place - the
message of the Ministry of social policy. - From 77 thousand people who applied in the management
of social security, only 5 thousand wanted to find a job. And of those 5 thousand were employed
less than 800".
"I don't know who will feed the whole audience, when they run out of past savings and good people
will stop to help them. Scary to imagine where to go hungry crowds flooded the cities.
Until they go to Kiev on the beach, in the Park. Interestingly, and men up to 60 years, who came
from Lugansk and Donetsk regions here, exempt from conscription?
- Try them commit agenda! People don't want to go to die in the massacre. Of course, in any society
there is a certain number of those who can be easily zombie. Tell them about patriotism, "for the
Motherland", "La-La-La" - and they run!.. But, evidently not. Probably, we suicides over. Yes and
what a normal person will go to death only for the sake that someone earned money? I will sell Poroshenko
his factory in Lipetsk, and then talk.
- About "suicidal people", supply of which looks like just "ended". This is probably true.
Because after Maidan the activists did not go to ATO front line, but with live grenades, pistols
and axes went to defend "the right of ownership" for a restaurant in Kiev Shevchenko Boulevard.
So what comes next?
Now anyone can declare themselves "Maidan activists, put "camouflage" cloting on and go to work
for someone who want to destroy the competitors, associates in business! It is a mass phenomenon.
You didn't like the "corruption" under Yanukovich? Now let's see which is better: the worst corruption
or militants on the streets who make very close to Rwanda?
Our people don't understand that it's a good civilized Belgians triggered Tutsi and Hutu messaca
. What is the Massacre of a hundred days" from April to July of 1994?.. In Rwanda was a political
confrontation with the authorities, intensified by extremist youth organizations. And the West while
not formally intervened in the negotiation process, although it financed both sides, trying to protect
thier own political interests.
But it is in the most poignant moment of confrontation - April 9-10 Belgium sent troops to Rwanda,
although they had no orders to stop the bloodshed. "Peacekeepers" have left the country at the time
when the tribes were still hoping for help. In vain.
As a result, they cut each other - one and a half million people! And if Europe managed to create
Tutsi and Hutu massacre, why would they be less successful in creating "Ukropi" and "colorad bugs"
massacre?
- "Those who are now in the army, can lost patience. In this case they will come back to Kiev
and personally ask the government: what it does, how it better than the last, which they just toppled?"
- like you said in the middle of the summer on one of the television. Now the summer is ending,
maybe the situation has changed? They will not come and will not ask? What is more, from the mouth
of the Minister of defense Galetea we can hear very optimistic forecasts: ATO is about to end.
Yes Geletey has no idea what the army is about! And I don't believe a single word of either party,
which says something about the war. Because of 99.96% just said is iether a blatant lie or a provocation
or propaganda.
The USA and EU have successfully ruined the Ukraine. And then, mark my word, next will be Russia.
These are plans of "Great white men". And if they didn't want to ruin Ukraine, then in 23 years
they would help us to create indigenous institutions. But instead quietly kept us in "white trash"
state, so God forbid we developed such an institutions and become their competitors.
As I can see they successfully made from Ukraine Somalia and now struggling to make Rwanda. I
would like to stress, if someone from those "great white people" wanted to stop this nightmare going
on here, they would be clearly able to "bend" our elite and those in power to force them to reform!
And they, in turn, without any problems found for each parliamentarian enough dirt to say : "If
you..., tomorrow will not come to the Parliament and will not vote for the reform package, you'll
have a fun life!" If's not that difficult to force them to formalize property rights, open registries
and inventories, to change civil law and so on?
And how to carry such reforms is pretty clear; they are tested in many countries and this long
list that includes Georgia, Albania and many other countries! And if in our country nothing was
done for a several decades, then West has for us completely different plans. Most likely, just to
free the territory from our population. Using for this purpose the very population in question...
Are their any logical inconsistencies in my reasoning? I can't see them.
- A very optimistic picture. Almost the end of the world.
- And no other options will not be easy. They have nowhere to take! Except for the winter miraculously
materializes gas, although no one believes in this myth already . As in that massacre in the East
is about to end.
The revolutionaries of the Maidan wanted to end crony capitalism. But it's back with a vengeance.
"A few weeks ago, the private Ukrainian TV channel 1+1 treated its viewers to a remarkable report
on the doings of one of the country's richest men. The subject of the report was Dmitry Firtash,
a telecommunications and energy magnate who was arrested in Vienna on March 12 on United States
bribery charges. (He was released after paying 125 million euros in bail, and currently remains
in Austria, where he is fighting extradition to the United States.) But the 1+1 report, one of many
attacks on Firtash aired by the channel in recent months, spent little time illuminating the businessman's
latest legal problems. Instead it dwelled on his alleged connections to a notorious Russian gangster
- whom it depicted as a close associate of Vladimir Putin…"
Copy this picture and post it on your
page!
Meeting against Petr Poroshenko!
We elected him, but all this time he has done absolutely nothing!
All the money that you and I collected for the army, disappeared, and he is accountabie for
that!
Due to his inactivity, we are losing our Ukraine!
Poroshenko has not spent a single hryvna on the army although his personal wealth consists of
2 billion dollars!
What happened to the 4.5 billions of dollars that the EU allocated for us, and where is that
money now?
Poroshenko is responsible for the failure of the war, look how many planes and tanks have been
destroyed!
How many of our lads have been killed because of him? Poroshenko is impotent to do anything!
His Channel 5 lies every day about the supposed victories, and it's all a lie!
Enough lying from Poroshenko! He is stealing our money! He has betrayed us all!
For him, money is more important than the lives of our soldiers, who perished.
We are ready to elect a new President! We don't need thieves and oligarchs!
Copy this picture and post it on your page!
We must save our country before it's too late!
In the period from 14 to 19 July 2014 we should note the disastrous rise (3473 man, 47%) of the
number of deserters from the Armed Forces and the National guard of Ukraine in comparison with similar
indicators for the previous week (1847 people, 25%).
In addition, for this period has increased the number of missing people (1344 people, 47%; last
week - 344 people, 10%).
This phenomenon is related to the increased activity of the enemy in Donetsk and Lugansk regions
and the increase in the number of our casualties in units of the law enforcement agencies. This
fact affects the combat readiness of the personnel and makes the continuation of ATO impossible.
If the negative dynamics will remain at the same level, through 4-5 days 2/3 combat-ready units
involved in ATO, will cease to exist.
In order to maintain the combat potential of the ATO law enforcement units I propose the withdrawal
of the units to the area of Dobropillya, and Smolyaninovo respectively. After replenishing ammunition,
regrouping and conducting rotation 60% of personnel the offensive will be continued.
Head of SBU V.Nalivaychenko
July 19, 2014
-----------------------------------------------
A resolution.
Continue until victory!
When 298 innocent people were shot out of the sky by a Russian missile 10 days ago, people everywhere
finally began to understand what is at stake in Ukraine.
Half a year ago, I was not even considering becoming president of Ukraine. But like a great many
Ukrainians at the time, I was disturbed that then-president Viktor Yanukovych constrained Ukraine's
future by rejecting an association agreement with the European Union, choosing a customs union with
Moscow instead. Like so many of my countrymen, I believed that for Ukraine to become a modern and
successful country, it needed to expand its ties with the West and end widespread corruption and
abuses of power. Then, the authorities unleashed a murderous assault on demonstrators in Kiev, and
Yanukovych and his partners fled to Russia, leading to Moscow's decision to annex Crimea and support
the violent separatists operating in eastern Ukraine.
Russia's behavior has only worsened since I took office in June. Over the past several weeks,
Ukraine has resisted Russian aggression and continues the fight against the Moscow-backed separatists.
Russia has tested us with its transfer of cash, weapons and other equipment to the separatists and
its vast anti-Western, anti-Kiev propaganda campaign, but we will not yield to its interference
in Ukraine's sovereignty or to the violence perpetuated by terrorists.
Moscow is playing a dangerously irresponsible game. My fears of the violence spiraling out of
control were confirmed July 17, when the separatists used Russian missiles to shoot down Malaysia
Airlines Flight 17. This attack on innocents should never have happened. Like giving a handgun to
a child, Moscow permitted the transfer of a highly sophisticated surface-to-air missile system to
terrorists. With such a large number of lives lost - many of them children - this was a major tragedy.
Adding to the horror has been the casual desecration of the crash site by the separatists, who have
blocked access by investigators, tampered with evidence, looted belongings and treated the dead
like offal.
As president, I have laid the groundwork for peace talks with the separatists by calling for
dialogue along with guarantees of the rights of all Ukrainians. But these calls have been rejected,
and Moscow continues to fan the conflict. It has always been my goal to bring together the parties
and work out solutions for all Ukrainians regardless of geography, ethnicity or language.
To help achieve these solutions, the West should begin thinking about a larger response to what
has happened. As always, the United States should take the lead. Working together with the European
Union, Washington can shape a worldwide coalition of nations in support of Ukraine to ensure that
these terrorists are not able to strike again.
It is important that the United States has instituted stronger sanctions in response to Russia's
aggression in my country. However, in light of this tragedy, the United States should consider imposing
even tougher and wider-reaching sectoral sanctions on Moscow. And Europe needs to follow the lead
of the United States and impose sectoral sanctions of its own.
Russia needs to know that the international community is serious. It is long past time for it
to act.
In addition to broader sanctions, my country needs expedited deliveries of assistance to help
us police our borders and unwind the insurgency with minimal violence.
Even as we address the immediate threat to our country, Ukraine must attend to other pressing
needs. Ukraine can use U.S. leadership and assistance in our efforts to curtail corruption, revive
our financial institutions, reform our energy policy and liberalize our agricultural sector. Additionally,
we need U.S. natural gas to shore up our energy supplies so that we cannot be blackmailed by Moscow.
We need a reliable partner and ally to help fuel our nation.
Now is the time for the international community to stand with Ukraine. To stop Russia, it will
take the global community acting in concert. My country is doing everything it can to take charge
of our destiny: We are working hard to curb corruption, implement much-needed reforms and, above
all, restore the Ukrainian people's faith in their government. Working together, we will not allow
Moscow to stand in the way of creating a new open, united and prosperous Ukraine.
Quote: "My point is that, after MI-5 (or is it MI-6? I never can remember the difference) analyze
the contents, if the facts don't match what they want them to be, then they will either (1) destroy
the evidence, or (2) suppress it."
This piece is good, it provides actual radar coordinates
and other data for techies to examine. Also:
On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance,
released all of its air traffic data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it)
– all verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data. The entire content of the
presentation was also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be
drawn from this are stunning, to say the least. Despite the public release of this information,
US and British media outlets did report back to its people on these findings. They
are as follows:
Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious 'Left Turn'
as it flew over the Donetsk area at approximately 5:20pm Moscow time, making a sharp
14km deviation, before attempting to regain its previous course before dropping altitude
disappearing from radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers
in Kiev had already diverted MH17 200 miles further north into the target zone, so the
question remains: was Kiev ATC also responsible for this final, fatal diversion,
or is there another reason for this unusual turn (see 'Mysterious Left Turn', below)?
According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned
3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM missile batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included
full launching, loading and radio location units, located in the immediate vicinity
of the MH17 crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk.
In addition, a radio location system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated
5km north of Donetsk. On July 17th, the day of the incident, these batteries were
moved to a position 8km south of Shahktyorsk. In addition to this, two other radio
location units are also identified in the immediate vicinity. These SAM systems had
a range of 35km distance, and 25km altitude.
From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev's BUK launchers were then moved
away from the firing zone.
yalensis, yeah, it's really bad news that the black boxes were sent to the UK, particularly
since the anti-Kiev fighters had taken so much trouble to keep them out of Kiev's hands
and give them over to Malaysian officials only for those officials to hand them to one of
Kiev's main ideological backers.
However, the US/UK can't be absolutely sure who
else might have a recording of the Kiev Control Tower's conversation with MH17 – just as
they couldn't be absolutely sure what Russia's radar and satellites saw – so blatant tampering
may be highly risky.
Does anyone know if there are any back-up systems for the black boxes and, if so, what
happened to them? I find it hard to believe that Russia would be unaware of the risk of
the black box data being manipulated and, if aware, would be inactive in trying to head
that problem off at the pass.
The black boxes are sealed for expressly the purpose of assuring investigators they are
getting the raw data and that it has not been altered prior to official inspection. They
are all prominently marked "Do Not Open", and I believe they are pressurized inside so that
if one is opened the pressure will be equalized and inspectors will know it has been tampered
with.
I suppose if you were really, really swept up you could discover what the internal pressure
is, open it, mess with the recording in such a seamless manner that your insertion of false
data was undetectable, and then re-pressurize it and duplicate the warning seal (unless
you removed the original very carefully without tearing it, clever, clever), but that
seems a lot of work when in the present situation there is so much contrary evidence which
suggests Ukraine was at fault. Why rig it so they're to blame if they actually are?
You're right, I don't think Brits will actually TAMPER with the boxes.
My point is that,
after MI-5 (or is it MI-6? I never can remember the difference) analyze the contents,
if the facts don't match what they want them to be, then they will either (1) destroy
the evidence, or (2) suppress it.
We may get some statements to the media, along the lines of, "The data was corrupted
by mishandling…" or something like that…
Or maybe even: "The data is too sensitive, from an intelligence standpoint, to be released
to the public." (falls into Official Secrets Act, etc etc)
Well, they won't go with option B, I can promise, because what happens to a civilian airliner
in a civil air corridor is a public matter and lies completely within the public interest,
besides which the west has already made it quite clear that if any aspect of it fingers
Russia they will be more than happy to disclose it.
Ergo, any cop-out like "classified
for reasons of national security" will be taken by all the reasonable adults as an admission
that Ukraine is on the hook for it but its benefactors have decided to protect it once more.
Both MI5 and MI6 are intelligence services, but MI5 works within the UK while MI6 is
international on the UK's behalf.
…"They must be nuts," Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern
Europe at the Berlin bureau of the German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. "It's
a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists and the Russians."…
…"They must be nuts," Joerg Forbrig, a senior program officer for central and eastern
Europe at the Berlin bureau of the German Marshall Fund of the US think tank, said. "It's
a very dangerous proposal and will be seen as a provocation by the separatists and the Russians."…
…The director of the European Centre for International Political Economy in Brussels,
Fredrik Erixon, warned against sending armed teams into eastern Ukraine to search for victims.
"There's nothing normal in east Ukraine right now," Erixon said. "Small events can trigger
very large reactions from the rebels and the Russian government."…"
marknesop, July 26, 2014 at 9:26 am
I imagine the hunger to "find out what happened and bring those who did it to justice" will
dry right up the closer it gets to undeniable that the Ukrainians did it. The narrative
is already drifting toward "we may never know". Convenient.
As long as we never know, world opinion will always trend toward Russia being responsible.
But few ever demand that the USA reveal the evidence which allegedly informs its confident assertions.
The State Department's insistence that Russia is shelling Ukraine across the border is an
excellent example, although it would certainly not be undeserved were it true.
Note the title: "To prevent further Russian aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign
states in Europe and Eurasia, and for other purposes." (My bolding)
Thus we slither further towards the abyss, as if we still don't know why 1914 happened.
Here's a blast from the past:
"The King [George V], mindful of his position as a constitutional monarch, made no
public declarations about the situation in Europe in the lead-up to the conflict.
But in the newly-disclosed meeting, the King informed Sir Edward it was "absolutely essential"
Britain go to war in order to prevent Germany from achieving "complete domination of this
country".
When Sir Edward said the Cabinet had yet to find a justifiable reason to enter the
conflict, the King replied: "You have got to find a reason, Grey."
At the same time, the German General Staff thought they had a 'window of opportunity', because
one or two years later, France's and Russia's military would've become too strong.
When will they – our politicians and media – ever learn?
There is much that supports it being a failed false flag, but like you, I find it hard to imagine
even the cold-blooded gold-digging self-interested pricks who run the western democracies could
gamble with non-invested people's lives; even Operation Northwoods, although it involved a provocation
using an airliner, would have – if the op had ever been run – resulted in the destruction of
an empty plane. It does serve well, though, to illustrate how prevalent is propaganda in the
modern western news and that everything it tells you must be critically examined for the possibility
it is a lie. It has gone from more or less 100% reporting of what happened to more or less 100%
attempted influence of perceptions and manipulation, and is not ever to be trusted.
This new
reality comports well with the impression a month ago of a determined, purposeful, steely-eyed
Ukrainian citizen army going about its business coolly and professionally as it plucks out the
cancer within, to today's impression of confused peasants with straw in their hair who just
made an innocent mistake because they had too little experience to master the technology with
which they had been entrusted. The press adjusts to the discrepancy between the savage brutes
on the Russian side of the border who deliberately and with malice aforethought shot down a
planeload of civilians to the confused and remorseful boys who accidentally unleashed a catastrophe
without even blinking.
The West's new policy of putting Russia on the defensive, and forcing it to abandon its traditional
interests in neighbouring countries such as Ukraine, is fuelled by showmanship rather than geopolitical
calculations.
Earlier this year, Christopher Clark, author of The Sleepwalkers: How Europe Went to War in
1914, said: 'Looking at the current crisis in Crimea, there is only one sleepwalker – Vladimir
Putin.' Clark's use of the term 'sleepwalkers' is a reference to the thoughtless manner in which
political leaders of the early twentieth century took decisions that unleashed a chain of events
culminating in the First World War.
Sadly, Clark is wrong to say Putin is the only sleepwalker today. Sleepwalkers are also haunting
the chancelleries and foreign offices of Western capitals. A culture of posturing, grandstanding
and playing to the media has distracted the political elites of Europe and America from developing
any kind of balanced assessment of their geopolitical interests. In recent years, showcasing interventionist
diplomacy in Libya and Syria has led to a series of blowbacks for the West. Having indirectly encouraged
the emergence of a new generation of jihadists in Syria, Western governments now turn their attentions
towards destabilising the regions around Russia. The West's new policy of putting Russia on
the defensive, and forcing it to abandon its traditional interests in neighbouring countries such
as Ukraine, is fuelled by showmanship rather than geopolitical calculations. That is why time
and again the EU blows hot and cold on Russia, refraining from doing anything more than the going-through-the-motions
of talking about and imposing sanctions. London and Washington often insist that more stringent
measures should be taken against Russia – but ideally by others.
But whatever the motives of the various powers is diplomatic re-enactment of the Cold War era
could mutate into a more serious conflict. Having sleepwalked into Libya and Syria, what is to stop
London and Washington from doing the same thing in Ukraine? Certainly the downing of Malaysia Airlines
Flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine, and the political and diplomatic reaction to that tragedy, indicates
that such an event can serve as a catalyst for turning political wrangling into a more dangerous
show of force.
The speed with which the Western media and governments have assigned all blame for the MH17
tragedy to Putin suggests that powerful institutions are unaware of the dangers of so casually escalating
such a conflict. Numerous Western media outlets have claimed that the downing of MH17 bears
an uncanny resemblance to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. Others have drawn an analogy between
MH17 and the sinking of the British passenger ship Lusitania during the First World War,
which led to the entry of America into the global conflict of 1914-1918. Many are now asking if
July 2014, with the downing of MH17 and the rising tensions in the east of Europe and elsewhere,
is a repeat of July 1914, when, a few weeks after the assassination of Ferdinand, global war broke
out.
As we head towards the centenary of the outbreak of the Great War, it is understandable that
the tragedy of Flight MH17 is looked upon by some as our Franz Ferdinand moment. In one sense,
this tragedy does invite comparisons with the assassination of Ferdinand. In both cases, neither
the governments nor the public seemed to be aware of the ease with which diplomatic rivalry can
turn into a bloody conflict. So today it seems that the leaders of the West have not actually thought
about the consequences of prodding Russia to the point where it feels forced to react.
Dominance in world MSM is like air superiority in conventional war: it essentially determine that
initial stage of the any hostile engagement. Russia lost propaganda war over MH17 with the score 100:1.
With the one being alternative Internet sites which did not bought Washington's fairy tale. The key
question: why SU-25 flied so close to Malaysian airline just before the tragedy was successfully suppressed.
These good people have stated that they have a very equipped and advanced laboratory, and it
is for this reason "black boxes" should be analysed in Great Britain (under watchful eyes of MI-6
and American special services) there. Within 24 hours you will see the first results. It's been
48 hours. No interesting statements from Farnborough have been reported. Or give me a link.
In general it is extremely convenient for the Americans. Shoot down any plane, using somebody
else hands and generally do whatever corresponds to "defense of the USA national interests". Just
don't leave too much evidence. In any case black boxes will be changed is some Farnborough. As I
wrote immediately after the disaster, there is no need for any evidence, Just switch on microphones
in controlled MSM and to put pressure on the allies to twist their hands. Something like we halped
you with the "Marshall plan", now its' your time to help us, etc. You should help ius in our Holy
struggle against Evil Empire.
Oh, and here is another interesting know-how about Washington Obcom methods of operation in case
of MH17. They don't want to answer on any question presented by Russia (I explained BEFORE why this
line of behaviour will be adopted, and can provide corresponding link). The strategy is not to give
any substantial official information, because it will be deliberately false and the USA can be caught
legally later. Let's use professionals from MSM to muddle the water.
In short, Washington Obcom adopted the following strategy: to produce some reports in the Internet
about MH17 crash. And then to refer to their own reports as evidence. This is kind of "news laundering",
but unlike financial money laundering it does not entail any legal responsibility. So Washington
Obcom assumes a noble position "I accuse", but the burden of proving the accusation is placed on
the accused. "Let him defend himself. And while he try to counter absurd and unfair accusations,
I will achieve everything I want to archive from this tragedy in any case"
It looks like strong economic sanctions are coming from the EU as
Grieving Dutch minister made Europe re-think Russia sanctions. Previous sanctions on Iran had hurt
EU economic growth, since trade is a two-way street, helping to slow
EU GDP growth
to 1.3%. These new sanctions, if enacted, might put it in negative territory. That represent distinct
advantage for the US, slowing the major rival economy
Until that meeting on Tuesday, Europe had trailed the United States in imposing economic sanctions
to pressure Moscow into working to defuse the eight-month crisis in Ukraine in which hundreds of
people have been killed.
Many governments were reluctant to antagonize a major energy supplier. Concern over the cost
to Europe's convalescent economy of fraying the vast network of industrial and business links with
Russia also weighed heavily.
Intense lobbying by Washington, including a warning by President Barack Obama that the plane
downing should be "a wake up call for Europe", had done little to change that mentality.
But like a supportive family, EU partners rallied around the bereaved Dutch, putting national
economic interests aside and for the first time going beyond asset freezes and visa bans on individuals
to envisage curbs on entire sectors of the Russian economy that could turn the screw on President
Vladimir Putin.
Gruesome images of bodies strewn across fields after the downing of flight MH17 appear to have
persuaded some of the opponents of sanctions to take a more decisive, if painful, stand against
Russian detribalization of Ukraine.
Washington has claimed that Moscow is 'culpable' in the Malaysian plane crash in Ukraine, as it
was Russian authorities that gave the rebels heavy weapons and training. However, the claim was
only backed up by reports in social media.
"We've seen that there were heavy weapons moved
from Russia to Ukraine, that they have moved into the hands of separatist leaders,"
said White House spokesman Josh Earnest. "And according to social media reports, those weapons
include the SA-11 [Buk missile] system."
Once again citing "some social media reports," Earnest added that Russia trained the
self-defense forces operating in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.
"We do know that it was an SA-11 [Buk missile] system that was in the hands of separatists
that brought down the Malaysian airliner last week. We know that Russia had been involved in training
separatists to use that system."
He added that the White House also knows that the Malaysia Airlines jet was brought down by a
missile that was fired from the ground in an area "that was controlled by separatists and in
an area where the Ukrainians themselves were not actually operating anti-aircraft weapons at that
time."
"So that is why we have concluded that Vladimir Putin and the Russians are culpable to this
tragedy… They have been responsible for supplying the terrorists with these -- or the separatists
with these weapons."
Earnest said he could not provide the latest intelligence materials, nor speak for the US intelligence
service. However, he claimed that the US authorities have proof that Russia fired "heavy weapons"
at Kiev troops.
"According to some social media reports but also to some intelligence assessments that have
been released by the intelligence community, reports that there has been firing of Russian heavy
weapons from the Russian side of the border at Ukrainian military personnel," the state department
spokesperson said.
Ohh, those Cameron's poodles... More or less honest report was removed due to " due to structural
defects and incomplete compliance editorial values of the British broadcasting Corporation". Textbook
example of British hypocrisy. I especially like how this pressitute states: "The history of the
downed airliner extremely complex and multifaceted, and we cover it from different sides."
As I promised in his blog on Thursday, we modified the report of correspondent of Russian service
of BBC Olga Ivshina, which on Wednesday was removed from our site.
Before I noted that the original material was removed due to structural defects and incomplete
compliance editorial values of the British broadcasting Corporation. And not for the reason,
which willingly told Russian media that BBC, they say, did not want to broadcast alternative perspective
on disaster Malaysian "Boeing".
You can see that we leave in the report the elements, which, according to our critics, we would
like to remove -- the opinions of the ordinary residents of Donbass and search our film crew of
the place from which the missle was possibly launched (if it was a missile).
This material has been enriched by the fragments, which, in our opinion, it was lacked and that
gave the story the volume of the added context of the content of what people say, located in the
center of events. I mean the statement of the official representative of Kiev on that fateful
day over the area of the tragedy in the air was not Ukrainian military aircraft. And expert
opinion about how likely is the use by the military pilots of civil aircraft as a "flying shields".
BBC is not engaged in self-censorship, and expects that its journalists ask questions. Including
inconvenient for users.
In revising the plot we almost did not use scissors. The only item that was cut out, is the statement
of the head of counter-intelligence of the security service of Ukraine Vitaly Nayda. Because it
was not about what Olga investigated . But interviews of Nayda on our site left -
Click here.
The history of the downed airliner extremely complex and multifaceted, and we cover it from
different sides.
To make mistakes is painful and unpleasant. But doing them, we recognize. And in this case we apologized
not once, but twice: first, that the original report was published in haste; secondly, because we
have not explained to you why it was removed once we made this decision.
And then we have tried these errors be corrected in a transparent manner. I'm not sure there's
a lot of media that are ready to do the same.
P.S. After the publication of my blog on Thursday, we received a huge number of comments. I am
very pleased how attentively you read our site and thank everybody who voted. Some of you have asked
where you can read the statement about mentioned editorial values BBC.
Here they are
in English; Click and
here they are in Russian.
Selected Comments
VS, 25 July 2014 - 19:40 GMT
Why continue this hypocritical blabbing. Everything is already clear to everybody
Yuri, 25 July 2014 - 21:43 GMT
Sawed-off is a part of the story were the locals testify in favor of the official version
of the Russian Federation. Censorship in action.
Vasily, 25 July 2014 - 21:57 GMT
You have rather poor military aviation expert.
The maximum speed of the SU-25 : 950 km/h (with norms. combat load)
Cruising speed: 750 km/h
Speed of the passenger airliner about 800 km/H.
that mean that have approximately the same speed.
A system mix up during a Ukrainian air defense units' rocket launch exercise could be the cause
of the Malaysia Airlines crash in southeast Ukraine, a source from one of the Ukrainian defense
departments told RIA Novosti.
"On July 17 the commanding officer of 156th Anti-Aircraft Regiment was instructed to conduct
a training exercise of ground troops stationed near Donetsk, which involved deploying the troops,
and carrying out a routine tracking and destroying of targets with the Buk-M1 missile," the source
said.
The source added that the actual launch of the rockets was not intended.
Two Sukhoi Su-25 combat aircraft on a reconnaissance mission participated in the exercise. It
is likely at some point, the routes of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 and a Su-25 jet overlapped.
Despite flying at different levels, they became a single dot on the radar of the missile system.
Of the two, the system automatically chose a larger target.
The reasons for the actual missile launch taking place remain unknown and are still under investigation,
as practical exercises with the Buk missiles has been prohibited since 2001, when a Russian Tu-154
passenger airplane en route from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv was shot down by the Ukrainian military.
At the moment, an international team of 24 experts is investigating the plane crash. The B777-200
aircraft had a clean maintenance record and was last checked on July 11 at Malaysia Airlines' hangar
at Kuala Lumpur International Airport.
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 heading from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed on July 17 near
the city of Donetsk in Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board. Kiev placed the blame on the independence
supporters in eastern Ukraine for shooting the plane down, but the latter insisted they did not
have the means to shoot down an aircraft flying at 32,000 feet.
Moscow insists documents that show Russians armed the separatists who shot down Malaysia Airlines
plane are forged
The west is imposing "illegal, unreasonable and counter-productive" sanctions against Russia
based on internet forgeries that do not prove any of its missiles shot down the Malaysian airliner,
the Russian ambassador to London has said.
Shortly before the European Union announced further sanctions against individuals and businesses
linked to the Kremlin on Thursday night, Alexander Yakovenko condemned the trade restrictions that
have already been imposed and warned that any more "may well trigger a long anticipated endgame
of the present global crisis".
The EU agreed at a meeting on Thursday to add 15 people and 18 companies or other organisations
to the bloc's sanctions list for undermining Ukraine's territorial integrity, diplomats said. But
they failed to reach agreement on economic sanctions and will resume discussions on Friday, they
added.
Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, has joined the US and Ukraine in saying there is strong
reason to believe the Malaysian airliner was shot down by pro-Putin separatists using a Soviet-era
Russian-made Buk missile, killing 298 people.
On Thursday night, the US state department said it had evidence Russia intended to deliver "heavier
and more powerful" rocket launchers to separatists in Ukraine.
However, Yakovenko said Russia had never given weapons to the separatists.
"The ample proof of inconsistencies of the initial narrative by Kiev and Washington has been
provided by the closed briefing by the American intelligence officials on Tuesday," he told journalists
at the Russian embassy in London.
"I took this from British media. Given media reports, there was nothing convincing, not to say
compelling, in those materials.
"The case, as is admitted, is built upon photos and messages from social media sites, placed
by Ukrainian authorities and since then proved to be forgeries, as ambassador Churkin demonstrated
at the UN security council meeting. Naturally, our American partners say that they have no way of
certifying the authenticity of those materials."
He added: "What we do is providing humanitarian assistance and receiving refugees from Ukraine
in our territory. I don't have to say that people in Russia entertain strong feelings over the atrocities
committed today by the Ukrainian forces against civilians, their ruthless use of heavy weapons and
air force to shell and bomb [a] peaceful population."
The ambassador said the war in Ukraine had created "murky waters which are a fertile ground for
all sorts of incidents".
The separatists are continuing to hold the site of the accident, but the black boxes from the
plane and some of the bodies of those who died in the crash have now been released.
Yakovenko's warnings came after Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, suggested sanctions should
only be directed at people in the entourage of Putin, rather than Russian business in general. He
also warned people not to "lash out" against all Russians.
Johnson previously expressed unease about being asked to play tennis with the wife of a former
finance minister of Putin, along with David Cameron, in return for a Ł160,000 donation. However,
he claimed sufficient checks on the donor have now been carried out to satisfy him that the couple
are not "buddies" of Putin.
"We have got to target the people who really count in Vladimir Putin's immediate entourage, in
his regime, the people who are this cronies," Johnson told LBC 97.3.
"That's sensible. People say this will affect London, [that] it will do damage [but] I don't
believe it will, because what people will see is a city that knows the difference between right
and wrong. I think it is to the credit of Britain and to London that we are able to do these difficult
things.
"I would stress obviously this is not the context for a general lashing out against all Russians,
everybody who happens to speak Russian. This is a city that welcomes people from all around the
world and there are many Russians here in London who are by no means buddies of Vladimir Putin."
The mayor's defence of the tennis match comes after the Conservatives were put under scrutiny
over hundreds of thousands of pounds in donations from Russians, who Labour said were bankrolling
their general election campaign.
An analysis by the Guardian shows more than Ł161,000 has come from donors with links to the Kremlin's
business interests in the last five years.
It also emerged that one of Cameron's trade envoys, Charles Hendry, is president of a pro-Russia
business lobby group whose advisory council includes an ally of Putin who recently struck an oil
deal with Syria's Bashar al-Assad, and a former chief of the arms company that designed Buk missiles.
The UK and some eastern European countries have been pushing for sanctions not just on individuals
and businesses linked to Putin's regime but for some wider sectoral restrictions that could hit
trade in areas such as energy, defence and finance. The list of individuals who face sanctions announced
on Thursday is likely to be published on Friday or Saturday.
We have already seen
Mark Sleboda vs a typical BBC Presstitute, today I bring you Peter Lavelle vs a typical CNN
Presstitute. I have to admit that I have been loathing the Ziomedia for many years and it has been
close to 20 years since I tossed away my TV, stopped reading the papers, stopped listening to Neocon
Public Radio and basically fully switched to the Internet for news and entertainment. I never regretted
this decision and I still think that this is *the* necessary and unavoidable first step towards
personal liberation from system of mind control the plutocrats have imposed everywhere they had
a chance to.
I sincerely admire both Mark Sleboda and Peter Lavelle for their courage to try to
get at least a tiny little bit of truth across in their interviews, but I have to say that I also
think that their efforts are futile. I think that the zombies who watch the Idiot Tube in 2014 are
simply beyond hope, they have lost any capability to think, reason, analyze, or question. As Roger
Waters put it so well: "But it was only a fantasy, The wall was too high as you can see, No matter
how he tried he could not break free, And the worms ate into his brain". We might as well call
them Cerebrum Numbing Network. See for yourself in the video below.
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense
forces. What are these
accusations
based on?
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses
Buk missile
launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems
deployed there
in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don't have any planes?
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an
international commission?
When will such a commission begin its work?
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory
of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding
the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to
deviate from
the regular route to the north, towards "the anti-terrorist operation zone"?
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not
closed for civilian
flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic
controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside
the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?
9. Why did Ukraine's Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between
Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian
radars without waiting for international investigators?
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a
similar incident
in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities
denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine's Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official
Kiev to be guilty.
Hello all,
It's a very long time since I commented as I don't regularly follow the happenings within Russia
that much nowadays. It's unfortunate that my country lost another civilian aircraft yet again.
I just want to say that Putin already lost the propaganda war – in my country and most of
the world. CNN, BBC, Guardian etc. are just too influential and deemed 'impartial' by most people
in my country. If you ask me who shot the plane – I'd say wait for the conclusion of investigators
but I have a bad feeling that we will never know what really took place. To be honest, I am
inclined to think the 'pro-Russian rebels' mistakenly shot the plane although I would not be
surprised if it turned out the Ukrainian military did it. Whatever it is, Putin lost in this
propaganda war. No matter how, he is already considered a 'mass murderer' and responsible for
'the deaths of innocent people' in my country and in the eyes of most people of the world.
I think Putin made a mistake in not acting decisively on Eastern Ukraine. He should have
either left the pro-Russian rebels abandoned to their own devices or annexed Eastern Ukraine
and brave the wrath of the West. Now, the Western hawks are all behind Ukraine. I see Putin
has not much choice diplomatically Perhaps, a world war is looming – thanks to Western hawkish
stupidity.
It does seem like that but it is far from over. 'Winning' the propaganda war though is only
one side of the coin and the smoke hasn't even cleared yet.
A) Can the West effectively exploit this to its advantage in the Ukraine?
I don't see how this could work. What they've come up with is barely circumstantial and cannot
be constituted as a hanging offense for Russia. The coalescing (non political) view seems to
be that it was an accident. How far can you run with something like that?;
B) Lasting damage to Russia's reputation. Is this going to hit trade between Russia and non-Western
countries in the short term, let alone the medium to long term?
For capitalists, it is only a passing issue unless there is an actual war or sanctions become
serious. Both major businesses in the US and Europe have come out publicly against sanctions
that could seriously hit trade with Russia. Russia's ties with Asia and elsewhere are only but
expanding, where countries have the money to pay whist the West remain the economic sick men.
C) Will it change political relations significantly?
Neither Germany nor the Netherlands look like they are going to be bounced in to quick action
that follows the Washington/London line. The strategic issue of what to do with Russia has not
gone away and is simply much bigger than the current conflict in the Ukraine. At some time ground
rules will need to be negotiated between Russia and the EU, probably behind closed doors. Laying
in personally to Putin would be counter intuitive diplomatically. These countries still need
Russian 'help' or acquiescence in multiple problems around the world.
What if?
What if Kiev is pinned for this? It already has some blame for letting flights go over its airspace.*
It cannot be fully absolved in any case.
The damage would be immense and widespread, taking in NATO, trans-atlantic relations etc.
Simply walking away and saying it was a mistake and expecting everything to remain the same
will not be possible even if they try.
What happened is beyond horrible and there's plenty of disgust to spread around for those
milking it amorally for their own political purposes. Nothing has changed.
Al, you ask "what if Kiev is pinned for this?" No problem, it can be easily spun. Depending
on whether the US wants to keep Pork Chop, it can be spun a number of ways such as it was a
rogue unit or an attempted coup against Pork Chop and he and his cabinet knew nothing about
it, they were misled by elements within their own intelligence services. This is a god one since
the US then has the excuse to get involved in making Ukraine's intelligence services more 'professional'.
Alternatively, if Pork Chop is for the chop so to speak, it can be described as sheer incompetence,
the Ukrainian government were all for putting their hands up to it but Pork Chop overruled them
and so he has to go. Or even it was done by a Ukrainian unit that had been tortured by the rebels
and were suffering from PTSD and worthy of our sympathy and understanding.
The West has had decades of experience at this sort of thing. And the MSM will follow the
party line like a flock of starlings without any apparent awareness that they were flying in
one direction and are now flying in the opposite one.
I'm not so sure Fern. Such spinnings may have worked very well in the past but us general
voting cattle are no longer related to the brass monkeys of old.
We see this reflected more and more in comments sections of news items where more and more
people say "Well how is this different from anything we/our government do/does?"). This view
is in part driven by disappointment by the failings of our own governments and seeing decisive
leaders in action (Putin), i.e. the grass is greener on the other side syndrome, but this is
still people actively making this view public, not some anonymous passive poll taking with the
usual fixed or leading questions.
The complete contradictions become harder and harder to ignore and are amplified when our
media simply ignore them and other basic questions you would expect even the greenest of journalists
to ask.
Sure, most people do not spend obsessive amounts of time on public forums picking over everything,
but the method is clearly repeated over and over and over again. Memory can be refreshed by
a simple internet search.
I think that finally public consciousness has caught up with the cynical and amoral games
our leaders have been playing since time immemorial and also might have something to do with
the recognition of the West's current and relative diminishing of its global powers. We've all
become extremely cynical.
As for the rest of the world, I see similar cynicism yet more hope for the future.
These are extraordinary times we are living in and it is really difficult to look at ongoing
events with an impartial perspective even if you try, but at least us commenters here on Mark's
blog recognize this.
Along those lines, I did notice a subtle shift in Western MSM coverage starting today.
The comments gently chiding Ukraine about its aviation "negligence", and such-like.
Is the start of a walking-back and preparation of mass lemming consciousness for the
"revelation" that Ukes might have accidentally shot the missile?
Fingers crossed. Although a 'no conclusive evidence, truth may never be known, all Russia's
fault for annexing Danzig' cop-out is more likely than an outright admission of possible
Uke fault.
Is probably true that the West "won the propaganda war".
Which would be the case if people around the world are stupid enough to regard channels like
the "BBC" and "CNN" as dispassionate, objective sources (as opposed to mouthpieces for their
respective governments).
In which case, if Russia already lost the propaganda war, then it is all the more urgent
that the Rebels win the "real war".
The one on the ground.
In which case, Russia needs to start arming and supporting the Rebs with all due urgency.
Otherwise, if Strelkov is right, the Rebels will be defeated, and then Russia will have lost
2 wars, both propaganda and actual.
And then, following such a defeat, Russia will also lose Crimea again and have to hand over
Crimea and the entire Black Sea to NATO.
.
(Channelling Karl here, but his dire predictions have been right about a lot of things….)
Does anyone else have a desire to just quit following the whole Ukraine mess and reading
Russia related articles in mainstream media? I think I am having this moment right now.
Russia is being attacked from all fronts in our (Finnish) mainstream media. Multiple articles
and op-eds are being written every day and the tone is getting more hateful and aggressive all
the time. Each story is being spun in favor of Kiev/West and against Russia. I'm certain that
Russia has never received this much of hatred and venom in Finland since the days of war.
Being a dissident in this environment is getting pretty hard. A few years ago there were
some Russia friendly commentators in news comment sections, but most of them have disappeared.
That mat at least partly be a result of censorship. In Helsingin Sanomat my messages are being
systematically censored. Some of the messages were published but were later deleted by the moderators.
I also created an account to a Finnish military forum called maanpuolustus.net. 100% of the
folks there were pro-West and pro-Kiev. I posted some Youtube videos about Kiev atrocities in
eastern Ukraine and my account was immediately banned.
The media of my country claims to be "free", but I feel like living in a media dictatorship
where only the "correct" and "patriotic" views are allowed. Being anti-Russian is part of the
Finnish patriotism. You cannot be a true Finnish patriot unless you either directly hate Russia
or pretend to be "concerned about human rights/democracy in Russia" and by that way conceal
your hatred behind these "concerns".
Reading the mainstream media only makes me angered and it is not healthy. It is a nice summer
so why should I ruin my mood with this? Trying to fight an anti-Russian propaganda in our media
is like trying to swim uphill. You are being either censored or banned, or you are being attacked
and blamed being a Kremlin troll.
Dear Karl:
For your psychological health, I would recommend just taking a rest from the news, at least
for a while. Go off somewhere, and enjoy your summer!
Life is too short to suffer when you don't have to.
Along the theme of "Forget the propaganda war, Rebels MUST win the Real War",
here is an opinion piece
by Boris Kagarlitsky, from yesterday. This is one of the best political analyses I have
seen, how this war in Ukraine relates to Russian politics.
PARTIAL TRANSLATION
At the beginning of July, Novorossiya was saved by a whisker. Having avoided he catastrophic
defeat that was prepared for it by "Fifth Column" in Donetsk as well as the "Sixth Column" in
Moscow [yalensis: I think he means, not so much the ineffectual White Ribbon types, as the neo-liberal
types who hang around the Kremlin), the Peoples Republics were able to deliver a strategic defeat
to the junta. From this point on, a turning point in the war is possible. But this depends not
only on what happens at the Front.
(...)
The shattering Igor Strelkov's grouping [in Slav'ansk] would have paved the way [for junta
troops to enter] Donetsk from 3 directions, without any threats to their flanks. This would
have pleased the Moscow liberals. But History decided otherwise. The reinforcing of Slav'ansk
and the bold actions of the Resistance prevented the triumphal march of the National Guard throug
Donbass. Thus was averted the junta's Plan B, which was based on the work of traitors. [yalensis:
Here, once again, I believe that Kagarlitsky has Kurgin'an in mind!] The main forces of the
Resistance were supposed to remain in place and continue to defend Slav'ansk, while at the same
time the "Fifth Column" was supposed to open the gates of Donetsk to the army of the "Punishers".
The city (Donetsk) did not have adequate reinforcements, and within the leadership of the DPR
sat some people who were loyal to Rinat Akhmetov. However, this Plan B collapsed at the beginning
of July, just as Plan A had collapsed at the beginning of June.
(…)
There is still no (decisive) break in the war. But it could happen, if the Novorossiya republics
can hold out until autumn(…) This doesn't fit in with the plans of the Kiev junta, nor with
the plans of certain very influential people in Moscow. These latter were shocked by the setback
to (Kiev's) latest plan. (…) Their shock at the planned "throwing of Novorossiya under the bus"
gave rise to these rude attacks, on the part of the conservatives, against Strelkov.(…)
The civil war in the Ukraine has exposed the crisis of Russian politics. All the hopes and
dreams of the (Russian) elites to avoid new conflicts with the EU and USA, have been shattered,
because internal problems of the Western countries push them into a fight against the Russian
government, and Russian capital [yalensis: "Capital" in the Marxist sense, not the capital of
a country]. The Kremlin's timid attempt to allow some integration of post-Soviet economies is
regarded by Brussels and Washington as an act of aggression, as a threat to the neo-liberal
order in Eurasia. And, moreover, the betrayal of Novorossiya by the "Sixth Column" would not
have changed a thing, except for the fact that USA and EU, taking advantage of this situation,
would have struck ever more blows against Russia. Because this is the only way they can secure
their hegemony.
The war in Ukraine has divided Russian society. It has divided both (traditional) "lefts"
and "rights" into proponents of reaction; versus those who want to see (a genuine) socio-economic
rebirth of the post-Soviet world. Those who support Novorossiya, regardless of their subjective
inclinations and prejudices, are objectively supporting a social republic, a union of peoples,
and an actual democracy (….) The people in power are also divided. But there, the struggle takes
on a secretive character. The opinions of the Russian oligarchy, and the balance between liberal
and non-liberal groupings within the government, as always remain the main obstacle for any
Kremlin attempts to defend (Russia's) national interests.
The Kremlin maintains that once the treaty comes into effect, European exports could find their
way into Russia duty-free, since Kiev has its own beneficial trade conditions with Moscow. Or less
expensive European goods could force Ukrainian goods out of their own market and into Russia.
As a result, Russian officials say they could very likely raise tariffs on Ukrainian imports,
and thereby restrict business between the two countries.
The threat has serious implications. Russia is Ukraine's single largest export market, accounting
for nearly a quarter of the country's international trade.
... ... ...
Many observers ask: "What more can Russia do?"
The conflict in Ukraine's east has not erupted into full-scale war yet - but it could
There could be deeper, more biting economic measures against Ukraine
Sergei Glazyev, one of Russian President Vladimir Putin's top advisers, has said signing
the EU agreement would be "economic suicide" for Ukraine
Ukraine also faces a number of dangers closer to home. The country's economy is in a brittle
state. Growth has plummeted and the government owes billions of dollars to international investors.
Множество комментариев экспертов, которые анализировали "мирный план Порошенко", справедливо
оценили большинство из 15 пунктов этого плана либо как слишком невнятные, либо как попросту некомпетентные,
либо как ультиматум бунтующим регионам.
Чего стоит, к примеру, пункт о создании 10-километровой буферной зоны на российско-украинской
государственной границе. Неясно, что делать с десятками тысяч жителей, которые оказались бы в этой
зоне. Иными словами, план Порошенко именно как план конкретных действий - политически ничтожный.
Однако этой констатацией можно было бы ограничиться, если предполагать, что "план Порошенко"
действительно претендовал на роль основы для мирного урегулирования украинского кризиса. На самом
деле, конечно, ни на что подобное он не претендовал.
У плана были иные цели.
Во-первых - для всех, кто связывал с голосованием за Порошенко на президентских выборах ожидание
мира, план был призывом к миру. Люди ведь пункты не читают и в детали не вникают. Политики же в
Европе и США, конечно, читают всё и не могут не поддержать призыв к миру, тем более что при внимательном
чтении становится понятно, что интересам Запада план не угрожает.
Во-вторых, для тех, кто требует от Порошенко большей решительности в войне с "террористами",
план выглядит как жесткий ультиматум ополченцам.
Но главное, на мой взгляд, состоит в том, что все его 15 пунктов - сигнал о готовности Порошенко
к переговорам с представителями бунтующих регионов. Иначе нельзя интерпретировать первый пункт плана:
"Гарантии безопасности для всех участников переговоров". То, что такой сигнал дорогого
стоит, стало ясно уже через день, когда состоялись первые консультации в формате: представители
непризнанных республик ДНР и ЛНР, посол РФ Михаил Зурабов, представитель Порошенко Леонид Кучма,
представитель председателя ОБСЕ Хайди Тальявини и лидер общественного движения "Украинский выбор"
Виктор Медведчук, челночная дипломатия которого и сделала консультации в таком формате возможными.
Нужно отдавать себе отчет в том, что решиться на подобные переговоры Петру Порошенко было весьма
и весьма непросто. Даже не прямые, а через посредника, роль которого Петр Алексеевич попросил выполнить
второго президента Украины Леонида Кучму. Дело в том, что все без исключения политические силы,
поддержавшие Петра Порошенко: журналисты на всех каналах украинского ТВ, все гражданские активисты
и украинские "правозащитники", сам Игорь Коломойский и Ко - выступают за "войну до полного истребления
всех сепаратистов Юго-Востока". И они категорически против любых переговоров с представителями непризнанных
республик, считая их сепаратистами-террористами, мародерами и т.п. Любые переговоры с ними в их
глазах равносильны государственной измене.
Тем не менее Порошенко впервые решился пойти против "партии войны", и пока не ясно, насколько
последовательным будет он на этом пути.
Первый приз в ответ на свой мужественный шаг Порошенко получил уже на следующий день, когда Владимир
Путин обратился Совфед с просьбой отменить
известное постановление о разрешении ввести войска в Украину. Очевидно, что этот шаг Путиным сделан
в ответ на готовность Порошенко к переговорам с Юго-Востоком, пусть пока и не прямым.
Сегодня трудно сказать, насколько удастся сблизить позиции Киева и ДНР-ЛНР и в какой точке можно
ожидать достижения компромисса. Переговоры, в сущности, пока даже и не начинались. Позиции сторон
конфликта настолько сильно отличаются, что не приходится сомневаться - переговоры будут невероятно
трудными и, скорее всего, длительными. Слишком свежа память об авианалете на Луганск, о 40 убитых
детях, об обстреле тяжелой артиллерией Славянска, убийствах милиционеров и мирных жителей Мариуполя…
Но переговорам альтернативы - нет. Важно, чтобы мы могли следить за ходом переговоров, а не за
сводками с поля боя.
Если Порошенко удастся с помощью Путина перевести конфликт Киева с ДНР-ЛНР из военной фазы в
вялотекущий переговорный процесс, то у него появятся шансы сосредоточиться на решении политических
и социальных проблем, коих у него более чем достаточно. И одна из первоочередных политических задач
Порошенко - сформировать в Верховной раде лояльное ему устойчивое большинство. С сегодняшним составом
рады ему вряд ли это удастся: фракции Юлии Тимошенко и "Свободы" - ненадежные партнеры, а без них
у Порошенко нет в нынешнем составе рады большинства.
Внеочередные выборы можно провести не ранее чем осенью. Причем никаких гарантий, что Порошенко
сможет получить на этих выборах лояльное большинство, учитывая накопившееся социальное напряжение,
нет. И компромисс с Юго-Востоком, скорее всего, приведет к консолидации против Порошенко националистической
оппозиции.
Если же переговоры будут сорваны и возобновятся военные действия, то союзников у Порошенко может
не оказаться вовсе.
Скорее всего, парламентских выборов в этом году не будет. Никому, в том числе Госдепу, не захочется
включать в игру новые неизвестные - и без того ситуация чрезвычайно запутанная. Вот когда будет
принято решение, что Порошенко предназначенную ему роль уже выполнил, тогда, возможно, и будет запущен
механизм перезагрузки Верховной рады, не исключено, что при совмещении этой перезагрузки с кастингом
на нового любимца Виктории Нуланд (или кто там будет вместо нее).
Что касается роли олигарха и губернатора Днепропетровской области г-на Коломойского, то слухам
о его возможной отставке, по-видимому, не суждено сбыться - слишком много властных ресурсов, в том
числе силовых, он сосредоточил в своих руках.
Очевидно, что для Порошенко он - нежелательный попутчик, но пока президент едва ли решится от
него избавиться. А жаль. А вот ослабить его аппетиты - это вполне вероятно. Например, может отправить
в отставку его ставленника - губернатора Одесской области Игоря Палицу.
Среди тяжелейших проблем Украины и Порошенко - состояние дел в милиции. Эта проблема поважнее
газовых споров с РФ. Газовые споры так или иначе, я уверен, будут улажены до холодов. А что делать
с деморализованной милицией, не знает никто. Новая власть уволила уже десятки тысяч милиционеров,
по-видимому, большинство из юго-восточных регионов.
Как и полгода тому назад, шпана с майдана в центре Киева возле Киево-Печерской лавры может избить
ногами милиционера (желающие могут лицезреть это избиение на YouTube) и… спокойно разойтись.
Так ведь и случилось в действительности. После чего начальство милиции объявило о том, что никаких
инцидентов у Лавры не произошло и всё было в рамках закона.
It so happened that the U.S. agencies had ended an investigation of money laundering for Russian
gas, when V. Yanukovich left the Ukraine. Upon request of Americans, D. Firtash was arrested in
Vienna, where, at the moment, he was waiting for the decision on his extradition to the United States.
And again, it so happened that the presidential candidate P. Poroshenko being in Vienna met his
old acquaintance D. Firtash. No transparent explanation of their conversation exists.
Vitali Klitschko, the leader of the opposition party "UDAR", also met D. Firtash in Vienna. The
contents of their conversations are also unknown. P. Poroshenko does not have his own team. During
the elections, V. Klitschko expressed his support and activists of "UDAR" formed the core of his
election headquarters.
Absence of team is a noteworthy feature, since P. Poroshenko is not a novice in the political
world. He was first elected to the Supreme Rada in 1998 in Vinnitsa, where his father was in
politics, and now – his eldest son is. He started his political activity with the social democrats
being close to the President Leonid Kuchma, but after giving them up, in 2000, he formed his own
party, Solidarity. In 2001, he led the campaign of Victor Yushchenko's bloc to the Supreme Rada
and after the victory he became the chairman of the Budget Committee.
In 2004, P. Poroshenko supported the Orange Revolution actively and became one of persons close
to Yushchenko's circle. But his hopes were not fulfilled when V. Yushchenko appointed Yulia Tymoshenko
as the Prime Minister. He got high position of the National Security and Defence Council Secretary
but it was less influential to economics; he held the position for only a half of a year. Collision
of Y. Tymoshenko and P. Poroshenko resulted in resignation of both.
In 2009, V. Yushchenko appointed P. Poroshenko as a Minister of Inferior. He stayed in this post
for less than a half of a year as V. Yanukovich won the election. However, P. Poroshenko was one
of the creators of the Party of Regions; he supported V. Yanukovich criticizing his old opponent
Y. Tymoshenko. Therefore, in 2012, he got the Trade and Economic Development Minister portfolio
from V. Yanukovich. He held it for nine months.
Political biography shows that P. Poroshenko has the ability to remain on the surface and
the inability to do something important for the state if survives. For a long time his speeches
were of European orientation, he criticized corruption while his business empire was prospering
in a totally corrupt state. It was a bad sign for P. Poroshenko as a politician, as his business
empire to date is in the process of formation: he sells one companies and buys other. About
40 percent of P. Poroshenko business is related to Russia. Domestically, his activities as
of a businessman are intertwined with other Ukrainian oligarchs who are not necessarily supporters
of the political direction declared by him.
... ... ...
The President promised with an oath that an antiterrorist operation would be completed in the
coming week. That week ended with the beaten Ukrainian plane and 39 victims. But the President fulfilled
another promise: the funds saved due to one round of elections were transferred to the armed forces
on his order. It is only not clear where the money will settle: as the Ukrainian student studying
in Estonia told that when he was drafted into the army for three months they did not get uniforms
because the officers sold them. I have already mentioned that the lustration have not started
in the Ukraine yet.
... ... ...
P. Poroshenko choices to his team show prospective activities of the President. Generally,
he tends to rely on old acquaintances: he began to carry cocoa to the Ukraine with his classmate
Sergei Zaitsev; his first company called Central Servis was founded with his former military comrade
Igor Kononenko.
Last week, he appointed Boris Lozhkin, his media business partner, to whom he sold his share
of business in 2013, as a head of the Presidential Executive Office. With B. Lozhkin and a so called
Donbass principal Rinat Achmetov they established "United Online Ventures" that was later sold to
the representative of V. Yanukovich family Sergey Kurchenko. Critics say that B. Lozhkin contributed
to the Russification of the Ukrainian media significantly. Probably, he received the award "Best
Russian Manager" for good reason.
One of the Deputy Presidential Executive Officer became Oleg Rafalski holding the same post during
V. Yanukovich presidency, the former deputy of Sergei Liovochkin dismissed in January 2014. Now,
he will care of public services and personnel issues that are very important in order to curb corruption.
A good illustration of possible results is Lithuanian example: the deputies who won the first democratic
elections in 1990 left the whole old Soviet apparatus that transferred traditions of sweet privileges
to the re-established state, and until now, members of Seimas become tipsy of them while dragging
down confidence of this institution.
It is not the first time that the Kiev authorities have said they want a ceasefire while carrying
on with their assault on the people in eastern Ukraine, so we need to be very wary, journalist Neil
Clark told RT.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko announced a ceasefire plan for government troops in the
east of the country on
June
18.The decision came after a telephone conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin that
took place a day earlier. However, the Kiev authorities have already called for ceasefire a couple
of times, demanding from the Eastern Ukrainians that they lay down the arms unilaterally with no
guarantees that the military operation will be stopped.
RT:This isn't the first time President Poroshenko has promised to end the
crackdown in the East. Do you believe he is genuinely committed?
Neil Clark: It isn't the first time, that's why we have got to be very wary
about this because it is quite clear that he is acting out of a position of weakness. Things have
not gone to plan for the Ukrainian authorities here. They launched their offensive against the so-called
terrorists in the East several weeks ago, it hasn't gone to plan. In fact he has hardly been able
to regain control of parts of the country. He hasn't been able to provoke Russia into intervening,
and as we know the people in the east are still there and they are fighting back and even inflicted
casualties on the Ukrainian forces. So I think now Poroshenko has had to rethink, and the US who
is behind it all has also had to rethink. So we have got to be very wary. The worst thing that will
happen here would be for the people in the east to lay down their arms and then there will be another
massive assault on them of the Ukrainian government using a kind of phony pretext to carry out the
offensive. So we have to be very careful to wait to see the details.
RT:Reports suggest Ukraine could be about to buy 1,000 armored vehicles.
This doesn't match up with pledges to scale down the military operation, does it?
NC: Absolutely, and I fear that what we could see here is Poroshenko playing
for time. He might be calling for a ceasefire to kind of lull people into a false sense of security
in the east and then, when his new military hardware arrives, to relaunch this offensive. The offensive
hasn't gone well, it hasn't succeeded, there have been a lot of reverses for the Ukrainian authorities.
We could be very cynical, we have got to wait to see the details. Of course every single person
wants to see an end to hostilities. We have over 300 people killed according to the UN figures in
the East, and many of they have been civilians, even children have been killed. Obviously, we want
peace, however I don't think we can trust Poroshenko and the Ukrainian authorities. We'll wait for
the details to reserve judgment.
A view of a new Dozor-B Ukrainian army armoured personnel carrier at the training ground in Chuguyev,
Kharkiv region, during a presentation of the vehicle on June 4, 2014. (AFP Photo / Sergey Bobok)
RT:What kind of plan is Kiev pursuing?
NC: Part of the strategy has been quite clear, it has to be to provoke Russia
into intervening. That has failed, and what Russia could have done, it has already done. The responsibility
for this is on the Ukrainian government and behind it of course is the US. While it's welcome to
hear this from Poroshenko talking about the ceasefire, we have got to be very careful. The devil
is really in the details here, before we can even talk about having some kind of negotiations and
a peaceful solution to this, because up to now we had this before, we had the Kiev authorities saying
they want a ceasefire, carrying on with pounding, with assault on the people in the east. The actions
speak louder than the words really.
RT:The deaths of two Russian journalists in Lugansk, along with the abductions
of media workers, have shocked many. There are also reports that Russian TV channels are being blocked
in several cities in Ukraine. Is there any freedom of press left in the country?
NC: The situation in Ukraine is quite appalling from the journalistic point
of view. We have journalists simply targeted for reporting the "wrong" kind of news or
are working for the "wrong" kind of channels. I have heard about RT coming off the air,
if that's true. The Ukrainian government has been very draconian and it is actually working against
the free press here. I have heard from someone commenting on the situation here that it is worse
than it was in the Iraq war – even the Iraqi authorities were better toward the press than the Ukrainian
authorities are here. So it's another black mark against Ukraine.
The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and
do not necessarily represent those of RT.
Милосердие варваров
Публичное сострадание к новым "детям Германии" – жителям и беженцам Юго-Востока –
модный украинский общественный тренд.
На подъездах киевских домов стали появляться объявления каких-то подвижников, призывающих горожан
сдавать благотворительным организациям ненужную одежду. Для передачи беженцам Юго-Востока. Строгие,
сухие листки боевого времени: паковать так-то, оставлять там-то, не жлобствовать, отдавать только
приличное, чистое, сухое.
Украинское ТВ пестрит соревнованиями "больших женских сердец" на ток-шоу. Как будто самооправдательными.
Изломанное гримасами муки и боли лицо очередной совести и матери-берегини всея Украины Ольги Богомолец.
Она поселилась у "Шустера", где и горит нечеловеческой, неземной скорбью. Львовская поп-певица Руслана
Лыжычко тоже живет на "Шустере", заглядывая в телекамеры наигранно скорбным обезьяньим личиком.
Заламывает руки. Рассказывает, как за свой счет помогает родителям и их детям из городов Юго-Востока
перебраться на Западную Украину.
Официальная украинская пресса переполнена состраданием к несчастным. Регулярно рапортует о "диверсантах",
посягающих своими липкими лапами на самое святое. Например, на Порошенко. Или другие объекты народного
хозяйства. Впрочем, их тут же изобличают и хватают за руку народные герои майдана. Общая информационно-сострадательная
картина такова: "диверсанты" на Юго-Востоке поддерживают "террористов" и "сепаратистов". Запугивают
мирное население. Еще немного, и в воображении украинского обывателя поселится представление о луганчанах
и дончанах, которые, запершись в домах, тихонечко, взявшись за руки, напевают "Щэ нэ вмэрла…". И
молятся на иконы. В то время как мрачные "сепаратисты" уже стучатся в двери, требуя выдать для публичного
сожжения семейную реликвию – томик "Кобзаря".
Скука, гнусность или глупость заставляют киевский публичный жмых говорить на телекамеры о сострадании
и помощи беженцам, тут же оправдывая расстрелы мирных жителей с военных самолетов, разрушенные квартиры,
убитых и раненых.
Скука, гнусность или глупость вынуждают их упорно разделять "сепаратистов" и настроения Юго-Востока,
не замечая, что под определение "сепаратисты" попадают почти все жители ЛНР и ДНР, поскольку почти
все они настроены "сепаратистски".
По иронии, бывшая республика СССР, в свое время беспрепятственно воспользовавшаяся правом самоидентификации,
столько рассуждавшая о своем жертвенном положении в Союзе, теперь и сама превратилась в кровавого
тирана. Страна, требующая от всего мира признать свой голод геноцидом, свергающая тоталитарные символы
прошлого (пока только в виде памятников Ленину), поминающая Сталина незлым тихим словом, сама перешла
к риторике и замашкам эпохи репрессий и военного коммунизма вперемешку с неонацистскими. Украина,
все годы своей независимости гордившаяся собственным спокойствием и миролюбием, теперь с удовольствием
режет, убивает, проливает кровь.
Не хочется верить, что это истинное, а не фольклорно-пропагандистское, лицо Украины и украинцев.
И что зверства, которые описывал Булгаков в "Белой гвардии" – не отдельные вспышки звериной ненависти,
а неотъемлемая грань менталитета, мировоззрения, которая периодически начинает отсвечивать кровавыми
бликами. Что еще остается думать после того, как "украинцы" пишут уничижительные посты под фотографиями
луганчанки с оторванными украинской ракетой ногами. Под фотографией старика, несущего на руках убитую
украинской гаубицей 6-летнюю девочку. Заботливо обсуждают на ток-шоу уровень обеспеченности одеждой
и амуницией агрессивных селян из Западной Украины, которые рвутся на Юго-Восток наказать, продемонстрировать,
зачистить, расстрелять, отбомбить. Наступить тяжелым сапогом, чтоб не трепыхались. И сфотографировать
для отчетности.
Майданные радикалы-националисты приходят на чужую им землю, к чужим им людям, в чужие дома. Зачем?
Никакая национал-вызвольна идея не стоит жизни убитой 6-летней девочки. Если бы ради того, чтобы
вернуть ее к жизни, понадобилось отменить Украину или любое другое государство, утопающее в собственной
крови, это стоило бы сделать.
Ни один западный украинец или оглупленный киевлянин этого не признает. Тем более – "публичный".
Наоборот, они увлечены показушным сердоболием и, попутно, активным раздуванием собственного рейтинга.
Впереди парламентские выборы: со сниженным проходным барьером, с "отключенными" для голосования
пророссийскими Крымом и Юго-Востоком, с компартией, которую если и не запретят, то запрессуют (кстати,
почему бы не запретить неонацистов Тягныбока-Фарион и националистов-радикалов "Правого сектора"
Яроша?). Великолепное оперативное пространство для засилия Киева националистами, неонацистами, радикалами
и – прежними олигархами.
Впереди парламентские выборы: со сниженным проходным барьером, с "отключенными" для голосования
пророссийскими Крымом и Юго-Востоком, с компартией, которую если и не запретят, то запрессуют...
В этой стране, так страстно желающей "демократии", просто обожают олигархов. После каждого "антиолигархического
майдана" состоятельные воры только крепнут и расползаются во власти и в публичном пространстве.
Даже Лыжычко, которая хвастается у Шустера тем, что из своих денег купила билеты группе беженцев,
пришла на эфир со своим "партнером" по благотворительности – человеком Ахметова, которого как будто
сам Ахметов отрядил на публичное замаливание собственных грехов и грешков.
Почему бы сердобольным, мечтающим о большой политике и слоняющимся по этой причине из эфира в
эфир, просто не попросить "камуфляжников" отказаться от намерений ехать и убивать мирных жителей,
вместо того, чтобы порхать вокруг них, выясняя, есть ли теплые носочки и не мерзнет ли носик.
Нужно осудить олигархов, которые теперь уже официально руководят областями и формируют собственные
вооруженные подразделения. Нужно осудить убийц, мечтающих о статусе участников военных действий
и льготах. Нужно осудить озлобленных камуфляжных людей, упорно не желающих покидать Майдан и слоняющихся
от Госпогранслужбы, посольства России и парламента с очередным заказным пикетированием – требовать
скорейшего проведения парламентских выборов. Зачем им все это, потным бородатым камуфляжникам?
Очень скоро парламентские выборы, последний рывок в борьбе за распределение власти, и эти группировки
начнут враждовать с другими, а уж ворованным со складов оружием Украина накачана под завязку. Этого
очевидного уродства украинской жизни не хотят замечать прекраснодушные дамы, которым так нравится
быть "символами нации".
Ради этого можно публично собирать одежду, многословно и фальшиво талдычить о лекарствах и снаряжении
для укро-боевиков, сражающихся с мирными жителями на Юго-Востоке, одобрительно кивать "камуфляжнику",
мужественно просящему лишь амуницию для продления кровопролития. Упрашивать луганчан и дончан все
бросить у себя дома, хватать детей и становиться беженцами на Западной Украине – там, откуда для
этих же луганчан-дончан все началось, где не ждут их детей.
Где тетка-"свободовка" Фарион предлагала русскоязычным девочкам проваливать подальше, а дядька-"свободовец"
Тягныбок весьма импульсивно зажигал перед гуцульскими старцами о происках "жыдвы" и прочих "москалей".
Это не милосердие, а спорадические муки совести и потайное осознание приближающейся цивилизационной,
морально-этической бездны, в которую Украину вверг Евромайдан. Ведь к этой евромайдановой, а теперь
уже и общеукраинской трагедии причастны все
Это не милосердие, а спорадические муки совести и потайное осознание приближающейся цивилизационной,
морально-этической бездны, в которую Украину вверг Евромайдан.
Ведь к этой евромайдановой, а теперь уже и общеукраинской трагедии причастны все. И журналисты,
расхваливавшие "Свободу", не замечавшие факельных шествий с наци-символикой и первые, как по звонку
из посольства США, бежавшие на Евромайдан, а потом куда-то сгинувшие.
И олигархи, финансировавшие неонацистов и радикалов. И политики, устроившие все эти истории со
"снайперами на Институтской" и ответственные за убитых, причем, не только евромайдановцев, но и
сотрудников офиса "Партии регионов", о которых как-то позабыли.
История кишмя кишит историями про добрых завоевателей-варваров, вначале устраивающих кровавый
ад захваченным городам, а потом из сердоболия подбирающих девочек, оставшихся сиротами.
– Хочу предложить вам, – тут женщина из-за пазухи вытащила несколько ярких и мокрых от снега
журналов, – взять несколько журналов в пользу детей Германии. По полтиннику штука.
– Нет, не возьму, – кратко ответил Филипп Филиппович, покосившись на журналы.
Совершенное изумление выразилось на лицах, а женщина покрылась клюквенным налётом.
– Почему же вы отказываетесь?
– Не хочу.
– Вы не сочувствуете детям Германии?
– Сочувствую.
– Жалеете по полтиннику?
– Нет.
– Так почему же?
– Не хочу.
Помолчали.
– Знаете ли, профессор, – заговорила девушка, тяжело вздохнув, – если бы вы не были европейским
светилом, и за вас не заступались бы самым возмутительным образом (блондин дёрнул её за край куртки,
но она отмахнулась) лица, которых, я уверена, мы ещё разъясним, вас следовало бы арестовать.
– А за что? – с любопытством спросил Филипп Филиппович.
– Вы ненавистник пролетариата! – гордо сказала женщина.
– Да, я не люблю пролетариата, – печально согласился Филипп Филиппович и нажал кнопку.
Отто фон Бисмарк об бандерах: "Нет ничего более гнусного и омерзительного, чем так называемые
"бендеры"! Это отребье, взращенное поляками из самых гнусных отбросов украинского народа (убийц,
карьеристов, пресмыкающейся перед властью интеллигенции), готово за власть и доходное место убить
собственных отца и мать! Эти выродки готовы разорвать своих соплеменников, и даже не ради выгоды,
а ради удовлетворения своих низменных инстинктов, для них не существует ничего святого, предательство
является для них нормой жизни, они убоги умом, злобны, завистливы, хитры особой хитростью.(с)
18 июня 2014 09:29
1.1.1Ирень
В дополнение... http://marinni.livejournal.com/974113.html... http://warfiles.ru/show-44831-ne-dlya-slabonervnyh-zverstva-oun-upa-foto-fakty.html
Первое предложение в оригинале звучит:""Нет ничего более гнусного и омерзительного, чем так называемые
"украинцы..." Нефик на зеркало пенять и классиков првить... Шо маемо - то маемо..
Запад не готов давать Украине отсрочку
Западные кредиторы не готовы не только к списанию части долгов Украины, которая находится в тяжелейшем
финансовом положении, но даже к отсрочке их выплаты. Об этом говорится в публикации американского издания
Wall Street Journal.
По его данным, правительство Украины провело неформальные переговоры с частными инвесторами о возможности
отсрочки погашения своих облигаций.
По словам Любомира Митова, экономиста ассоциации Institute of International Finance, представляющей
интересы 450 крупнейших мировых банков и фондов, в ходе дискуссии обсуждалось, какие варианты реструктуризации
можно рассматривать в случае углубления экономического кризиса на Украине.
"Никакого решения принято не было, нет никаких цифр или схем. Шла речь о том, существует ли возможность
для некоего добровольного обмена с целью продления срока обращения бумаг", - сказал Митов. Он уточнил,
что пока реструктуризация не планируется и не обсуждается.
"Пока еще не ясно, потребуется ли Украине изменение профиля долга: Киев и Международный валютный
фонд еще только оценивают масштаб проблем украинской экономики. МВФ после предварительной оценки состояния
украинской экономики заключил, что реструктуризация долга в настоящее время не нужна", - отмечает издание.
Ранее Institute of International Finance отмечал, что инвесторы не должны исключать возможности проведения
реструктуризации долгов Украины. В любом случае отсрочка или списание части госдолга должна быть одобрена
МВФ. Как известно, ранее МВФ согласился предоставить Украине новые кредиты для погашения предыдущих
долгов. В обмен на это нынешние власти Украины пошли на резкое ухудшение условий жизни для подавляющего
большинства граждан.
Вот был у нас Азаров. Просто молодец: к Евро-2012 все построил, перинатальные центры почти во
всех областях открыл, доллар держал по 8гр, плату за газ не повышал в течении 3-х лет, инфляция
была маленькая, зарплаты бюджетникам и пенсии худо-бедно повышал, с Россией за газ расплачивался
и еще и воровать успевали. А эти только воровать и хаос устраивать могут, больше ни хрена.
Odina, 20 июня 2014 22:42
Вообще, складывается впечатление, что Азарова допускали к власти периодически, чтобы чего-нибудь
построил и припас в закромах неньки, что потом можно было бы украсть.
Только наши свидомые мудаки могут променять миллиарды от сотрудничества с РФ на красивые сказки
о евроинтеграции с бородатыми кончитами. Страна дураков, жрите и не обляпайтесь - утырки! Крокодил,
ты же там кричал мол америка нам поможет, что сейчас скажешь?
Любому кретину понятно, что неспроста США, находящиеся за 3,9земель, воспылали любовью к неньке-Украине
и что за эту любовь ненька еще дорого заплатит. Не первая это любовь у США, поматросят они ненечку
и бросят...
"Комитет гражданских инициатив экс-министра финансов Алексея Кудрина подготовил доклад, в котором
подсчитаны потери Украины от ухудшения отношений с Россией.Откуда такие цифры?
Кудринский комитет дает такую расшифровку:
$15 миллиардов Украина может потерять от снижения экспорта своих товаров в Россию .
$11-13 миллиардов незалежная недополучит из-за сокращения заработков украинских гастарбайтеров
в России. Их сегодня более 1,1 миллиона человек.
$2,2-3,7 миллиарда убытков Украина понесет от роста цены на российский газ.$2 миллиарда
- составят недополученные Украиной инвестиции российского бизнеса.
$1,5 миллиарда - на столько меньше денег оставят в незалежной российские туристы, которых
уже стало на порядок меньше.
И, судя по всему, никакие кредиты от США или Евросоюза такие убытки возместить не в состоянии.
Кто не скачет, тот москаль, а кто скачет тот банкрот?"(с)
Разница в том,что бандаянуковича воровала единолично,под" крышей" государства.И населению немножко
оставалось.А нынче решено государство упразднить и устроить распродажу по ценам секонд-хенда.
Каутский 20 июня 2014 23:05
Согласен со вторым выводом вашего эссе. А вот по первой части хотелось бы уточнить- что такое
"грабила"?. Я не в восторге от правления Чнуковича, но не в том, что кто то там "грабил", а в том,
что он, как заявил жириновский -губошлеп и не захотел вовремя задушить в зародыше все то, что сейчас
превратилось в кровавый шабаш. А все те картинки, про золотые унитазы. золотые батоны, про "якобы"
дачи под Москвою как раз и рассчитаны на убогое воображение наших обывателей, которые люто ненавидят
тех, кто украл больше чем он сам.
Брат2, 21 июня 2014 02:50
Киев уволит с должностей губернаторов Коломойского и Таруту 01:10 21.06.2014 . И.о. премьер-министра
Украины Яйценюх сделал президенту Петру Порошенко представление на увольнение губернаторов всех
регионов. Об этом 20 июня сообщают украинские "Вести" со ссылкой на источник в правительстве. Сообщается,
что своих постов с большой вероятностью лишатся назначенные Киевом украинские олигархи, в частности,
губернатор Днепропетровской области Игорь Коломойский, донецкий губернатор Сергей Тарута и глава
Одесской области Игорь Палица. Источник отметил, что Коломойский уже поблагодарил киевские власти
за оказанное доверие и выразил готовность продолжить финансирование спецбатальона "Днепр". Ранее
в пятницу стало известно, что нардеп от "Партии регионов" Ефим Звягильский предложил Порошенко уволить
с поста губернатора Сергея Таруту и назначить на его место мэра Донецка Александра Лукъянченко.
Тарута, в свою очередь, заявил, что данный вопрос не обсуждался, отметив, что за кресло главы области
он не держится....
Zlaya 21 июня 2014 02:00
Для тех, кто в танке что же произошло с кредитами http://crimsonalter.livejournal.com/22104.html
The recent attack on the Russian Embassy in Kiev casts doubt on President Poroshenko's ability
to have a say in the government, Martin Sieff, an Irish-American veteran journalist and author believes.
"It [the attack] will generate further tensions between the current government in Kiev and Russia.
Besides, it throws further doubt on the ability of Ukraine's new President Petro Poroshenko to function
as anything more than a powerless figurehead at the mercy of more extreme forces in his government."
Hundreds of protestors attacked the Russian embassy in Kiev on Saturday. Radicals were hurling
petrol bombs, eggs and paint, smashing windows, and overturning cars near the embassy. They tore
down the Russian flag and replaced it with the Ukrainian national. Police stood by, not taking any
actions.
Sieff emphasized that Poroshenko still has not taken any credible action to rein in, or replace
the extremist and chaotic interim government that seized power after the toppling of President Viktor
Yanukovych in a violent coup on February 22.
The expert stressed that Yanukovych was elected in a free and fair election with 12.481 million
votes for a five year mandate in 2010 with 24.5 million participants. Poroshenko, by contrast, was
supported by only 9 million voters with only 18 million people participating in the election in
total.
"Far worse, he has shown no ability or determination to try and convert even that a weakened
mandate into effective domestic power," Sieff asserted. "He has taken no effort beyond empty rhetoric
to heal the erupting civil war between eastern and western Ukraine."
"Instead of acting for reconciliation, he immediately approved on taking office a major military
operation against local groups in eastern Ukraine that has already killed at least hundreds of innocent
civilians," he added. "The death toll looks certain to rise into the thousands."
Sieff believes that to head off this escalating crisis, the Obama administration should seek
to create an urgent working partnership with Moscow as soon as possible, and to rein in the irresponsible
forces holding power in Kiev from further violent and rash military and paramilitary actions.
"Ukraine can only be restored to peace after the escalating clashes of this year by recognizing
that power must be decentralized and self-government provided at local levels within a new federalized
structure," he concluded.
Петр Порошенко и Игорь Коломойский – ключевые фигуры украинской политики по состоянию на начало
лета 2014 года. Первый получил очень серьезный кредит доверия на президентских выборах. Второй проявил
себя блестящим кризис-менеджером. Фактор этих двух людей, по большому счету, удержал страну от раскола
и пока позволяет сдерживать продвижение российской агрессии в границах тех административных единиц,
в которых существует серьезная социологическая база поддержки действий Кремля.
Тем не менее, вероятность того, что со временем период тактического совпадения интересов этих
политиков и олигархов закончится, довольно высока. И противоречия между Порошенко и Коломойским
станут причиной очередного политического кризиса.
Версия, согласно которой Коломойский под видом борьбы с сепаратистами, террористами и российскими
диверсантами фактически установил личный контроль над несколькими областями юго-востока, создав
тем самым своеобразную "АнтиНовороссию", имеет право на жизнь, при всей ее фантасмагоричности.
Точно так же нельзя игнорировать мнение, объясняющие усилия Коломойского тем, что он стремится
получить преимущества в процессе перераспределения собственности олигархических групп, которые могут
"обвалиться" в результате кризиса. Более того, Коломойский уже стал слишком масштабной фигурой
даже для таких предположений. Иными словами, он реально уже воспринимаем в любой роли – включительно
с ролями президента и премьера.
Порошенко, между прочим, за несколько месяцев тоже вырос не только в рейтинговом измерении. Пока
он готовился стать президентом Украины, росла геополитическая роль этого поста. Сейчас он – лидер
страны, которая находится на передовой мировых процессов.
А когда две такие величины сталкиваются на одной территории, жди конфликта. Особенно в Украине,
где даже деятели на порядок мельче привыкли исповедовать принцип "победитель получает все".
Может ли согласиться Порошенко с тем, что ему придется согласовывать назначения в Днепропетровской,
Одесской, Харьковской областях с Коломойским?
Понравилось ли ему то, что на приеме в честь инаугурации днепропетровский губернатор пользовался
едва ли не большим вниманием, чем хозяин торжества?
Не тревожно ли верховному главнокомандующему от того, что боеспособные формирования, создающиеся
под патронатом Коломойского растут как грибы после дождя?
Заинтересован ли Коломойский в том, чтобы президент окреп и усилил свои позиции?
Не видит ли в нем конкурента в освоении активов донецких и "семейных" групп?
Объективные предпосылки для конфликта между Порошенко и Коломойским имеются. И они существенны.
Субъективно (хоть об этом и трудно судить) обе стороны понимают неизбежность столкновения,
но пока готовы воздерживаться от активных действий. Если конфликт актуализируется, то произойдет
это только после того, как удастся нормализировать ситуацию на востоке.
Порошенко как минимум на публику представил переговорные позиции с нулевыми компромиссами.
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/07/06/2014/929169.shtml#xtor=AL-[internal_traffic]--[rbc.ru]-[main_body]-[main_item]-[title]
1. Русский язык. Нет, он, по его мнению, не будет ни региональным, ни вторым государственным. Разрешат
разговаривать на нем? ОК. Это смешно. Сам Порошенко в своей семье и со своими подчиненными разговаривает
на русском. И вот это немного шизофрения. "Мы разрешим вам в семье или на улице разговаривать на
русском". Но речь ведь идет совсем о другом. О языке делопроизводства, о том, чтобы на вывеске писать
не "перукарня" с западенского волапюка, а "парикмахерская". Поскольку 99% жителей Донбасса не называют
парикмахерскую перукарней. Неужели это требование сверхъестественно? А также речь идет о получении
образования на русском и т.д..
2. Хуцпа. Имеет на Украине традиции. Например времен Марии Цвигун
(которая Дэви Христос). Ну и далее - молочница с бубликом и пр. "Украина была, э i будэ ..." и далее
подставляется тезис, который в реальности - не была, не есть и не будет. Крым ментально за всю свою
историю никогда не был хотя бы немного украинским. По факту сегодня он не украинский совсем (там
уже нет украинской власти и почти нет украинских граждан и, тем более, - симпатизантов Украины и
пр.). "Украина была, э i и буде унитарной" и пр. демагогия. "Украинский народ никогда еще не был
таким сильным, как сейчас". Но это - мантры, а дело обстоит с точностью до наоборот.
Хуцпу подхватывают американские партнеры. К примеру, так полюбившаяся многим гражданка США Псаки.
"Украина - сильное демократическое государство". На самом деле - слабое и недемократическое.
Крим нэ був, нэ э и нэ будэ. И тут разговаривать не о чем. Еще один пункт повестки вычеркиваем.
Потом вычеркиваем "федерализацию", т.е. возможность жителям Юга избирать своих губернаторов самостоятельно.
Очередной ...-енко придэ, губернаторов привэдэ. Олигархов или жителей Ивано-Франсковска, Львова
и пр., которые будут руководить Одессой, Донецком, Луганском, Днепропетровском и пр.
3. Переговоры с де-факто властью в Донбассе. Порошенко исключил саму возможность этих переговоров
с "бандитами". Они - тэррористи. Вычеркиваем еще один пункт вероятной повестки.
4. Амнистия. Только для тех, кто "не запятнал". Таким образом это ни о чем. "Запятнавшего" будут
определять не в Донбассе, а в условной Галичине. Зная истеричность этих товарищей, мелкую и подлую
мстительность (смотрим, к примеру, на историю с Олегом Царевым), что мы получим? Какие гарантии?
5. Условия транзита газа через Украину не вошли в спич. Американские партнеры настаивают на том,
чтобы транзит проходил именно через Украину и никак иначе. И, вопреки интересам Европы, тормозят
альтернативные потоки. Порошенко не объяснил - как он видит решение всех этих газовых проблем. Здесь
вычеркиваем тему, но пунктиром. О чем-то все-таки можно поговорить.
6. Относительно отвода войск и приостановке бомбежек Донбасса не было сказано ничего. Даже с
условиями.
Until this past Monday, the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 on July 17th, 2014, was
a potential game changer for global geopolitics and the New Cold War. However, a funny thing happened
on the way to the Kremlin…
In this report, we will lay out the facts based on a wide breadth of available information
and data surrounding MH17. We will also present and give critique to Washington and Kiev's "mountain
of evidence" that has saturated US and European-based media coverage since the incident took place.
21WIRE has compiled this report with the help of many contributors and references from English-speaking
media, as well as material translated from Russian and Ukrainian media sources, along with other
historical references to provide context. Our objective is to get as close to the truth as possible.
Although many revelations will appear to be self-evident, we still encourage the public to draw
there own conclusions regarding this pivotal event.
There are other well-known anomalies surrounding this event
which have been covered at 21WIRE, as well as
connections to MH370, but for the purposes of this investigation we will focus on both factual
and speculative evidence brought forth by the US, Ukraine and Russia.
As we will clearly demonstrate, the only wild conspiracy theories being pushed right
now, are those coming out of the US State Department, and the government in Kiev, Ukraine, which
are being repeated by CNN, BBC, FOX-NewsCorp, ABC, CBS and NBC…
The Brink of War
Last Monday morning was not a pleasant one for the US State Department. Russian officials surprised
Washington and its NATO partners when it released all available satellite imagery and air traffic
control data which was recorded in and around the final minutes of Flight MH17 – and presented it
to the world media on live television. The data painted a very different picture, drawing contrasting
conclusions to what Washington and Kiev officials had been disseminating via western media since
July 17th. Following their presentation, Moscow handed its findings – air traffic data and time
stamped satellite imagery – to European authorities. We will review those findings in detail later
in this report. In stark contrast, US officials have been reluctant to do the same. Is Washington
willing to share any object data or evidence to the public, or is it only interested in sharing
that which somehow fits into the same predetermined narrative it stood by on July 17th, one which
already assigned guilt to both rebel fighters in eastern Ukraine and Russia?
We hope that political leaders and media organizations in the US and Europe will take the time
to consider all available information, rather than simply repeat and spin what is bouncing around
the media echo chamber. It's also crucial to understand the geopolitical context in which this incident
has occurred in order to discover who really possessed the motive, and the means to destroy this
passenger aircraft, and which parties stand to benefit most from such an international incident.
After reviewing the evidence, all indicators points to the downing of MH17 as a highly coordinated,
but failed false flag
event.
MH17: A Doomed Flight Path
A Malaysian Airlines spokesman has already confirmed that, for some unknown reason,
Kiev-based Ukrainian Air Traffic Control (ATC) ordered MH17 off of its original flight path along
the international air route, known as L980.
Most likely, this order was given to pilots while MH17 was still in Polish air space. L980 is
one of the most popular and most congested air routes in the world, as well as a key link between
major international hubs in Europe, like London Heathrow, Amsterdam Schiphol, and Frankfurt, and
Asian destinations, like Singapore, Mumbai, Hong Kong and Kuala Lumpur.
As MH17 moved into Ukrainian air space, it was moved by ATC Kiev approximately 200 miles north –
putting it on a new course, heading directly into a war zone, a well-know dangerous area by now
– one that's hosted a number of downed military craft over the previous 3 weeks.
Robert Mark, a commercial pilot and editor of Aviation International News
Safety magazine, confirmed that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur
would normally travel along a route significantly further south than the route MH17 was diverted
onto. Data on all airline flight records can be found
here.
The BBC reported
on July 17th: "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations
between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in
Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
Independent investigators are worried that ATC audio records of the MH17 flight appear to have
been confiscated by the Kiev government. No reason has been given for this loss of transparency,
but not a word from Washington regarding this cover-up of crucial evidence.
Did this order to change the flight path come from the Ukrainian authorities? Was the pilot instructed
to change course? To be sure, the order to change the flight path did not come from Eurocontrol,
but rather from ATC in Kiev.
Clue: British media run interference by conjuring a "Storm"
Soon after the incident, British news outlets began floating the story - without evidence, that
MH17 was diverted to "avoid thunderstorms in southern Ukraine". This was also placed on
Wikipedia
at the same time. Nico Voorbach, who is Dutch, is president of the
European Cockpit
Association, and was the man used to nudge out this talking point. Voorbach casually slides
this crucial fabrication out there, telling The Guardian of all papers, ""I heard that
MH17 was diverting from some showers as there were thunderclouds".
The only problem is that Malaysian Airlines immediately refuted this in a report from
Malaysia News:
"MAS operations director Captain Izham Ismail has also refuted claims that heavy
weather led to MH17 changing its flight plan.
"There were no reports from the pilot to suggest that this was the case," Izham said.
What is significant, however, is that the Western media acknowledged that the change in the flight
path did occur, and the that "heavy weather" narrative is a fabrication.
"The route over Ukrainian airspace where the incident occurred is commonly used for Europe to
Asia flights. A flight from a different carrier was on the same route at the time of the
MH17 incident, as were a number of other flights from other carriers in the days and weeks before.
Eurocontrol maintains records of all flights across European airspace, including those across Ukraine."
"What this statement confirms is that the MH17 's "usual flight path" was similar to the flight
paths of some 150 international flights which cross Eastern Ukraine on a daily basis. According
to Malaysian Airlines "The usual flight route [across the sea of Azov] was earlier declared
safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. The International Air Transportation
Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to
restrictions (that approved flight path is indicated in the maps below)."
The regular flight path of MH17 (and other international flights) over a period of ten
days prior to July 17th ( day of the disaster), crossing Eastern Ukraine in a southeasterly
direction is across the Sea of Azov.
The
Times of India reported this: "Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots
had also heard the controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called "a direct routing".
This permits an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally
a zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another. "Direct
routing saves fuel and time and is preferred by pilots. In this case, it proved fatal," said an
airline source."
UPDATE TBC:A number of bloggers have reported that the past flights on
FlightRadar and
FlightAware were changed between July 24-25th, the new "old flights" were placed over the Donetsk
People's Republic instead of the flights going further south. This does not jibe with what was reported
last week by researcher
Vagelis Karmiros using data from flight-tracking website Flightaware and published on a number
established sites like
Zero Hedge. Stay tuned here for updates.
The Event
The fatal event occurred somewhere in the interval between 17:21:28
and 17:22:30 Moscow Time.The exact time of the crash is believed to be at 5:23pm.
The last available geographic coordinates can be found here on Flight Radar24: Weather and Visibility Factor
Kiev-based air traffic controllers not only led MH17 right over its alleged 'target zone'
in Eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region, but also helped make it visible.
Although weather data online is all but unavailable for the area of Donetsk, Ukraine for July
17th, conditions are evident by numerous videos depicting the crash and crash site in the aftermath
- it was cloudy and overcast, with more visibility above the cloud canopy. This factor is important
because at its cruising altitude of 33,000 feet (10,000 meters), the airliner would not be visible
from the ground in the rebel-held area where Washington is insisting a SAM missile was launched.
Why Kiev air traffic controllers order MH17 to suddenly drop its altitude, from 35,000 feet to 33,000
feet, just before the plane's demise is unknown for sure, but it would have been near impossible
for the alleged rebel gunman occupying this relatively small rebel-held patch of land to make a
visual sighting of MH17 and acquire the target during the 1-2 minute window they would have had
(assuming they were even in possession of the BUK missile system).
Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was cruising just 1,000 feet above restricted airspacewhen
it was struck by a missile in Ukraine's Donetsk region, according to aviation and intelligence
officials.
To date, Kiev has refused to acknowledge or explain why the plane was moved into position in this
way. Moreover, Interfax news agency reported that Ukraine's SBU security service confiscated recordings
of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew immediately after the
incident.
The probability that this is all an 'unfortunate coincidence' reduces to near
zero when one considers the air traffic data and Kiev's denial of the close proximity of its Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter jet in pursuit of MH17 minutes before the crash (see 'Aircraft in the Vicinity' below).
Small Rebel Target Window
Much has been made by the US and its media of MH17 being shot down and crashing in "the
rebel-held area", but few are aware of just how small the said area actually is. The Ukrainian
military had already isolated the rebel area which Kiev and Washington insist a rebel-controlled
BUK SAM missile battery had fired on the passenger jet. The actual size of this rebel-held patch
is only 40-50 miles wide, with MH17 approaching on a southeastern route over Horlivka,
the frontline of this rebel-held zone, towards Snezhnoye (Snizhne). Cruising at 58o mph (933 kmph),
MH17 would have only been visible for a very short time – just over 1 minute (if Kiev had not ordered
MH17 to alter its course and altitude then it would not have been visible at all), from the vantage
point of the alleged rebel firing position. According the
Jane's Defense, the alleged
cluprit – an SA-11 (NATO code name) or 'BUK' missile system, requires 5 minutes set-up active targeting,
followed by an additional 22 seconds 'reaction time' for target acquisition and firing. As the MH17
was only visible for 70 seconds above this rebel-held area surrounding Grabovo, unless the alleged
rebel firing position was specifically tracking MH17 long before it entered the rebel-held airspace
and could distinguish it from other military civilian aircraft also in the general vicinity, Washington's
theory and Kiev's accusation – that rebels shot down this aircraft becomes even weaker.
Considering these factors, the probability increases greatly that targeting MH17 would have had
to be premeditated far in advance of the 70 seconds it was visible above this particular rebel-held
area.
Russian Satellite Data and Public Presentation
On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance,
released all of its air traffic data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it) – all
verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data. The entire content of the presentation was
also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be drawn from this are stunning,
to say the least. Despite the public release of this information, US and British media outlets did
report back to its people on these findings. They are as follows:
Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious 'Left Turn'
as it flew over the Donetsk areaat approximately 5:20pm Moscow time, making a
sharp 14km deviation, before attempting to regain its previous course before dropping altitude disappearing
from radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers in Kiev had already
diverted MH17 200 miles further north into the target zone, so the question remains: was Kiev ATC
also responsible for this final, fatal diversion, or is there another reason for this unusual turn
(see 'Mysterious Left Turn', below)?
According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned
3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM missile batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included
full launching, loading and radio location units, located in the immediate vicinity of the MH17
crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk. In addition, a radio location
system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated 5km north of Donetsk. On July 17th,
the day of the incident, these batteries were moved to a position 8km south of Shahktyorsk.
In addition to this, two other radio location units are also identified in the immediate vicinity.
These SAM systems had a range of 35km distance, and 25km altitude.
From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev's BUK launchers were then moved away
from the firing zone.
Unlike rebel fighters, the Ukrainian military is in possession of some 27 BUK missile
systems capable of bringing down high-flying jets, and forensic satellite imagery places at least
3 of their launchers in the Donetsk region on the day of this tragedy. Yet, Washington and NATO
will not inquire about the possibility that any of these system had targeted MH17.
Watch the official video here:
This is a definitive smoking gun: why did the Ukrainian Army move these short-range
anti-aircraft SAM missile batteries into position on July 16-17th – to an interior region
of East Ukraine where it's known that the rebel resistance possess no air crafts whatsoever? Not
surprisingly, both the US and Kiev have not answered that difficult question, perhaps for obvious
reasons.
In addition, the Ukrainian Army's radio location traffic near Donetsk peaked on the 16th and
17th, including a total of 9 separate radio location systems active. On the 18th and 19th of July,
radio location traffic from these stations dropped sharply, down to 4 stations. If, as Washington/Kiev
claims, rebels fired a BUK missile at MH17, then the rebel radar location signals would be clearly
noted and verifiable on the day; only, they are not.
All Aircraft in the Vicinity
Between 5pm-6pm Moscow Time on July 17th, the following aircraft have been identified
in the general vicinity of MH17 on its course heading to its fatal destination of Grabovo:
1. Boeing 772 – traveling southeast from Copenhagen to Singapore at 5:17pm
2. Boeing 778 – traveling southeast from Paris to Taipei at 5:24pm
3. Boeing 778 – traveling northwest from Delhi to Birmingham circa 5:20pm
4. Boeing 777 – Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 at 5:17pm 5. Su-25 Ukrainian Fighter Jet appears on radar, trailing MH17 at same altitude, est. 4km
behind it at 5:21pm
Note: the pilots and passengers of Singapore Airlines Flight SIA351were close enough to have visually observed, at high altitude, the demise of MH17.
At 5:20pm MH17 began to abruptly lose speed, eventually slowing to 124mph (200kmph). At this
time, a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet appears on ATC radar and trailing MH17 on the
same flight path approximately 2-3km behind MH17, and at the same altitude – only minutes before
MH17 disappeared on radar. The Su-25 would not have been visible on ATC radar before it broke the
ATC long-range standby radar tracking ceiling of 5km in altitude. Civilian ATC radar would not be
able to identify this Su-25 as military because no secondary detection system is mounted – typical
for military aircraft. Note also that the Su-25 is armed with air-to-air missiles with a range of
5km-12km. Over the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area.
Another Smoking Gun: Kiev government officials insisted on July 17th that, "No
military aircraft were available in the region". Based on available data detailed above, this appears
to be a lie, indicating that a cover-up was taking place.
Again, it's important to note here that at the moment when MH17 was allegedly was hit for the
first time, at around 5:23pm Moscow time, the passenger jet was also within the range of several
Ukrainian BUK batteries deployed close to Donetsk and as well as the Ukrainian Army's BUK system
positioned on the day just 8km south of Shakhterskoye, only a few miles from the
eventual crash site at Grabovo.
IMAGE: A Ukrainian military Su-25 fighter jet carries air-to-air missiles.
MH17′s Mysterious Left Turn
On passing glance, this seemingly minor, yet unexplained event doesn't appear to be significant,
but as is often the case, the devil is in the detail.
Again, was Kiev ATC also responsible for MH17′s final and fatal diversion from its course, or
is there another reason for what appears to be an evasive maneuver?
One very real possibility for MH17 losing being diverted 14km to the left is that its GPS or
navigation system was being jammed. US-NATO forces happened to be conducting an electronic warfare
exercise in the Black Sea on July 17th (see 'SEA BREEZE 2014′, below). In addition to this possibility,
all Boeing jets (except Germany's Lufthansa fleet) are equipped with a remote override that can
be accessed by authorities in certain foreign countries, one being the United States. Although not
publicly acknowledged until recently, Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot (BUAP) systems have been
standard since the late 1990′s, apparently designed to take control of a commercial aircraft away
from the pilot or flight crew, chiefly in the event of a terrorist incident.
Another possible explanation for this crucial event in the timeline is that MH17 was hit, or
damaged, taking an emergency 180ş left turn for 14km, before disappearing completely off of radar.
This appears to be the case. On July 23rd,
Anna-News published an interview
with retired Russian Air Force colonel Aleksand Zhilin (Александр Жилин) a frequent
military commentator on Ukraine's Civil War.
"According to the colonel, at 16:19:45 (local time, and 5:19pm Moscow time), a Ukrainian
jet fighter targeted the Boeing with anair-to-air missileR-60.
The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay
in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment
that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled
by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline
by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the
troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively to allow Kiev to
lift the encirclement of its brigades (currently pinned down by rebels) in the southern pocket by
the Russian border."
"When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently
manageable, the US-Ukrainian headquarters of the special operation panicked and ordered the Buk
battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the possibility of the Boeing's emergency
landing. A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed."
21WIRE spoke to former Czech diplomat and political analyst, Vladimir Suchan, who
puts Zhilin's comments into context of what was happening militarily at the time of the crash. Suchan
explains, "If MH17 was hit right over the frontline over Snezhnoye, this would have placed the timing
and location of the intended downing and crash site to either the territory controlled by the Ukrainian
army, or much closer to the border between Russia and Ukraine where the "securing of the site" would
allow lifting the strategic encirclement of the Ukrainian troops in the south and thus, on top of
other objectives, saving Kiev's armed forces from its first major military defeat." (see 'Military
All-Out Offense' section below)
If, indeed MH17 was struck by an air-to-air missile at that time,
a distress call may have been sent to Kiev ATC, but as yet, Kiev officials may be reluctant to share,
or release the entirety of its communications from July 17th.
At the time of this report being filed at 21WIRE, a second source to verify this
testimony is not presently available. Zhilin's account certainly makes sense when
placed next to all ATC and satellite data released by Moscow. However, flight recorder information
and data from MH17′s black boxes would certainly be able to corroborate this timeline of events,
and one hopes that Great Britain's predetermined political stance against Russia does not prevent
Downing Street, or MI5 Intelligence Services from releasing the black box information in its entirety
and more importantly, a full and unedited disclosure to the media. More than likely, the BBC will
have first access to this release, and how the BBC report their findings will be very telling.
This account is also consistent with the location of key pieces of wreckage scattered over the
wider crash site radius. It shows M17 turning back on itself, after being struck initially. If this
was the final path, then it completely disapproves the US (US State Department) conspiracy theory
that a rebel-controlled BUK missile hit the plane head-on from Snezhnoye (Snizhne).
This U-turn then also helps explain why Kiev's first "leaked conversation of the rebels" (see 'Kiev's
Botch Social Media Audio' below) tried to place the rebel's BUK battery at a completely different
location in Debaltzevo, a few kilometers northwest of the main crash site at Grabovo.
However, that would not explain the U-turn, which they tried so much to conceal – for it points
to the Ukrainian jet fighter.
As part of their PR damage-control exercise, Washington released this Google Map-style graphic
on Tuesday July 22nd, illustrating its theory that the rebel missile battery was now located in
Snezhnoye:
Incredibly, Washington's latest evidence/theory, depicted above, put their alleged rebel firing
position in an entirely new spot – at Snezhnoye, and this now contradicts other 'social media' items
being held-up by John Kerry and President Obama in their "mountain of evidence" (see 'More Falsified
and Sloppy 'Evidence' Supplied by SBU', below).
The irony of this somehow escaped US State Dept. Deputy Spokesperson, Marie Harf
during her globally televised 'intelligence' briefing on Tuesday (see 'US Now in Full Retreat and
Damage-Control Mode', below).
Almost certainly, the US government already has a comprehensive communications, satellite and
radar data set which could either corroborate, or disprove what Russia has released. The fact that
Washington only has this Google graphic to offer to the public indicates that what it has…
may not be what it wants.
Whistleblower: A Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev
All evidence pointing to a Ukrainian Su-25 fighter jet in the same frame as MH17, also
validates the testimony of 'Carlos', an ATC contractor in Kiev.
ETN received information from an air traffic controller (Borispol Airport) in Kiev on Malaysia
Airlines flight MH17:
"This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken
off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia
Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew
on board. The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military
sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately
confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down. Military air traffic controllers
in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said
they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from. Obviously it happened
after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until
3 minutes before it disappeared from radar."
Again, real mounting evidence which points to an obvious cover-up by Kiev and its NATO partners.
CSI: Flight MH17
Crime scene investigation is important, although reports to date from the crash site in Grabovo
do not inspire very much confidence that a thorough and independent forensic investigation will
be carried out, or that the chain of custody for evidence is being observed. The key evidence would
be ballistics, including pieces of shrapnel retrieved from the wreckage. It should be easy to determine
if they came from any of the following:
1. A bomb on board (this is still a possibility). 2. An air-to-air missile. 3. A surface-to-air missile.
After that, the autopsy of the bodies would reveal additional evidence about what really took
place on July 17th. A present, the majority of the remains are being handled by the Netherlands
government, and given their NATO involvement to date in the Ukrainian conflict, it's debatable whether
or not they would present any findings which do not square with Washington and Kiev's narrow, yet
ever-evolving narrative of the incident.
Finally, if MH17 was indeed shot down as a false flag provocation of war by either a Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter, or a Ukrainian Army BUK SAM – or both, as much of the hard evidence suggests, then
would Malaysia declare war on the Ukraine? Would the UN table a resolution backing
sanctions against Ukrainian officials in Kiev for their role in this international war crime?
US-NATO's Military Drill in the Black Sea Ended on July 17th
Russia's Satellite Data and Public Presentation on Monday July 21st has put Washington on its
back foot. The existence of this intelligence, now made public, along with other data in Russia's
possession, means that the Washington cannot show the real intelligence – which they too have. It's
no coincidence that US and NATO conducted a large-scale military and intelligence drill in the Black
Sea just south of Crimea named, SEA BREEZE 2014, which just so happened to end
on… July 17th. The drill included hundreds of US military specialists running 'war simulations'
in electronic warfare, data collection from a spy satellite, and 'monitoring' of all passenger aircraft
flying in the region. A massive drill – yet another improbable coincidence.
Another smoking gun: Is it a coincidence that the US had its new experimental
satellite positioned over Eastern Europe for 1-2 hours, and directly over Donetsk in eastern Ukraine
from 5:06pm – 5:21pm. Taking this fact into consideration, alongside the other
improbable 'coincidences', leads to an almost certain conclusion.
In addition to SEA BREEZE, both US and British armed forces had also scheduled a concurrent military
exercise, code named, Rapid Trident 2014, a NATO event which takes place annually
in and around the Ukraine, designed to "promote regional stability and security, strengthen partnership
capacity and foster trust while improving interoperability between the land forces of Ukraine, and
NATO and partner nations," according to the US Forces in Europe website. Since March, the Pentagon
has kept quiet regarding the number of US forces, and hardware assets expected to participate in
the maneuvers.
According to US Army spokesman Col. Steven Warren,Rapid Trident is
the only Ukraine military exercise the US planned to participate in this year, and it's main purpose
was, "To help the Ukrainian military improve its troops and weapons operability with NATO
forces."
Ukrainian Military All-Out Offensive Timed For July 18th
Three uncomfortable realities in Kiev were prevailing before the downing of MH17 on July 17th.
First, the troops were losing morale, and suffering defections and other serious
set-backs in an increasingly unpopular military theater of Eastern Ukraine. Kiev was losing the
PR war hearts and minds in the Ukraine and abroad.
After the downing of MH17, Kiev garnered huge public sympathy and support, and just so happened
to launch a massive offensive on July 18th, one which military analysts believe would have to have
been planned many weeks in advance – and could not just be a knee-jerk reaction to the MH17 tragedy
as government spokespersons in Kiev insist.
Secondly, they were losing the war. Behind the lines battle reports from
Igor Strelkov's blog
at the time confirms this all-out offensive at Snezhnoye by the Kiev military planners
against the People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk – allowing the Ukrainian Army to penetrate
deeper and deeper, in effect splitting Donetsk and Lugansk.
Vladimir Suchan adds, "After the loss of MH17 and some talk about "humanitarian ceasefire", the
Kiev regime launched three massive offensives from the north, the west (from Artemovsk, which included
a large tank attack) and in the south. Since it always takes some good time to prepare an offensive,
this had to be planned sufficiently ahead, though, with a view of the desperate situation for the
junta in the south, most likely at a very accelerated pace.
http://voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/2968-voyna-na-yugo-vostoke-onlayn-18072014-hronika-sobytiy-post-obnovlyaetsya.html
"In this regard, it is also very plausible that some hope was put on having the command of Novororrysia
paralyzed, busy and distracted over MH17. By all accounts, both the timing and location of the MH17
crash, has enabled a huge 'game changer' in terms of how this conflict was previously
going."
If the international community were indeed to connect the prospect of a false flag attack on
MH17 with the false flag attack by Maidan snipers back in February, and the attempted false flag
attack with the Odessa massacre, perhaps the Ukrainian Civil War could be abated, for the right
reasons.
As the US media juggernaut rolls ahead, there is still no sign of either Washington, London or
Brussels admitting that their partners in Kiev are massacring civilians in a brutal civil war…
Disturbing reports are also coming in about the Ukrainian Military dropping White Phosphorus
on civilian targets this week, as forces continue bombarding areas surrounding of Lugansk. Here
are two unconfirmed videos, possible evidence of unconventional chemical weapons being deployed
over several locations near Lugansk People's Republic of Novorossia, from July 20-21, 2014:
Thirdly, Kiev is going broke trying to fund what appears to be an ethnic cleansing
campaign in eastern Ukraine.
Sources from the Parliamentary
budget office in Kiev now confirm that as of August 1st, Kiev can't pay its military (who are,
in fact, waging war against its own people and calingl it 'anti-terror operations).
"To continue the anti-terrorist operation in eastern Ukraine, it is necessary to amend the state
budget and to find additional sources of its content. We do not have money to pay at least a cash
security to our military from August", stated Ukraine's Finance Minister Oleksandr Shlapak,
speaking in Parliament this week. According to Shlapak, funds previously provided by the state budget
for these purposes has been calculated for the period prior to July 1st, and continued operations
will require additional funds totaling 9 billion UAH ($1 billion). Infighting has
already begun, as MP's are now blaming the Ministry of Defense and army staff for corruption and
looting of money.
In the wake of the MH17 disaster, US and its NATO allies are responding with a renewed call for
more military aid to Kiev and to fast-track the Ukraine's membership into Washington's overseas
military surrogate, NATO. As an emergency response to "secure the crash site", NATO stalwart,
The Netherlands, are weighing up deploying NATO troops into the middle of this war zone. Such
a move could easily cascade into something much worse should another bizarre "accident" occur, or
some tragedy befalls Dutch troops inserted into the hot zone.
Russian President Vladimir Putin has responded with strong words of condemnation,
stating, "No matter what our Western counterparts tell us, we can see what's going on. As it
stands, NATO is blatantly building up its forces in Eastern Europe, including the Black Sea and
the Baltic Sea areas. Its operational and combat training activities are gaining in scale."
While the US push Kiev eastwards to fight Washington's proxy war against Russia, the political
and financial situation in Kiev is rapidly falling apart.
Watch as a fist fight break out this week between Washington's new Neofascist partners
during a Parliament session in Kiev:
His resignation indicates that 'Yatz' may be falling out of favor with central planning in Washington,
and a sign of chaos still to come in the halls of Kiev's Parliament.
Made-up 'Evidence' From Washington and Kiev
The talking point shift by the US media on Tuesday July 22nd was an obvious reaction
to the Russian data dump. US media are now airing Washington DC's revised conspiracy theories.
Theory 1) "The rebels shot MH17 down by mistake", and Theory 2)
"Russia is responsible for creating the conditions for this tragedy". In reality, no evidence actually exists to date, other than anecdotal,
that the rebels in the east possess any 'BUK' surface-to-air missile systems (see Washington and
Kiev's 'BUK' Missile Evidence Debunked', below).
Close observers of Washington DC's media blitz can only be left with a feeling of embarrassment,
as the US State Department still clings to some semblance of continuity in the face of a total PR
meltdown. As late as July 22nd, the US State Department was still attempting to pass-off its 'evidence'
from social media (Twitter and YouTube), and backed-up by what it claims is "common sense", that
"clearly indicates Ukrainian militia shot down MH17″.
Since the incident on July 17th, the Kiev regime and US State Department have built their case
against Rebels in eastern Ukraine and Moscow, and even Vladimire Putin himself, on the following
items, which have all been thoroughly discredited by now:
1. The audio "tapes" issued by Kiev 2. A video and photos of BUK missile batteries issued by Kiev (of their own BUK missile
batteries) 3. Claims by Kiev and supported by the West, that Ukraine had "no military aircraft in the
air" at the time of the crash of the MH17 plane.
On July 22nd, the Ukrainian President PetroPoroshenko (photo,
left) was forced to change Kiev's story - a damage-control exercise to the overwhelming evidence
against Ukraine. He has since reversed this position.
Suchan explains the western political media machine and its all-out effort to cast Russia and
Putin as international pariahs over the incident:
"What has been thus established is that Ukraine, as well as the US, the EU, NATO, and other Western
countries, have been systematically and grossly lying about evidence pertaining to the tragedy of
MH17, thus willfully – and bluntly, abusing the tragedy and the demise of the victims and the suffering
of their families for perverse political goals related to NATO expansionism and anti-Russian hysteria,
and 'Russophobia', in order to support an openly fascist regime in Kiev, whose objective is the
deliberate destruction of civilians and civilian infrastructure in east Ukraine."
"The smearing campaign has also been used to demonize and criminalize anti-fascism and
its resistance to a fascist dictatorship in Kiev, enrolled by Ukraine's criminal oligarchs."
Washington and Kiev's 'BUK' Missile Evidence Debunked
Immediately after the MH17 crash event on July 17th, the Ukrainian government in Kiev
quickly uploaded a brief YouTube video it purported to be 'evidence' of "a 'BUK' missile
system being moved" out of a rebel-held area near Donetsk. US State Department officials,
and every US media outlet, led by CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC and CBS, along with major US talk radio hosts
like Sean Hannity, immediately jumped on this 5 second YouTube video claiming it was, "Irrefutable
proof that a Russian-made BUK missile system was being moved away after it shot down MH17″. That
talking point began to cascade from media, and into public chatter. It seemed their job was all
but done.
Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation newspaper , The Sun, always ready to take
any pro-war line to the extreme, led the 'conflict pornography' on news stands, intentionally inciting
fear and jingoism, doing what it always does: nudge British working class readers in a predetermined
direction and fuse public opinion among differing classes on divisive international issues. No surprise
then, as The Sun ran, "Putin's Missile" as its headline the next morning.
Similar covers and headlines were cloned across US and British media. Within hours of the news breaking
– and despite this blanket coverage, not one of these newspapers or TV broadcasters offered any
real evidence outside of anecdotal and wild speculation and conjectural theories.
Once again, we've witnessed world's most powerful, highly coordinated and synchronized propaganda
machine. Once it's set in motion, most western consumers are helpless to fend off it's relentless
repeating and universal coverage across hundreds of media outlets owned in most part by 5 US, and
2 British corporations.
A similar attempt was made by Washington and London last September, when US Secretary of State
John Kerry, along with then British Foreign Secretary William Hague,
presented their now infamous claim of 'open source evidence' (YouTube
videos) used to assign blame to the Syrian government for a chemical weapons attack against its
own people. Many of the photos
and videos were later proven to be faked and staged, and
'the gas' was made in Britain, and that 'chemical attack' was in fact staged by Syrian insurgents
still being supported by the US-British-Saudi-Qatari Axis.
Washington's initial 'BUK Missile' social media evidence seems to be rapidly
heading down the same memory hole as its Syria predecessor, and soon, it will not be mentioned again
by any US official. The speed at which it was released after the crash, and the fact that falsified
audio, video, and photos have been intentionally released by the Kiev government in the wake of
such a tragedy, demonstrates a clear motive to deceive the public about who is to blame for the
MH17 event – using falsified evidence to build a case against 'pro-Russian separatists' and Moscow,
and even Russian President Vladimir Putin himself.
What is obvious, but not being discussed in mainstream western circles, is that like Syria, Washington
and its NATO allies have been openly conducting a proxy war in the Ukraine, and have managed to
control media coverage in the west so that what clearly a Civil War in the Ukraine
– is being cynically, and very wrongly labeled as an "anti-terror operation". On a daily basis,
the Ukrainian Military are carrying out attacks on civilian targets all over Eastern Ukraine, killing
thousands of its own innocent citizens with the full logistical and financial backing of the Washington
and NATO. In Syria, the tables are reversed, where the government in Damascus is clearly fighting
against known al Qaeda and ISIS-linked foreign terrorists brigades, as Washington and London politicians
and media insist on calling it a 'civil war'. Both are classic proxy wars being waged by the NATO
block of nations.
More Falsified and Sloppy 'Evidence' Supplied by SBU Defense Ministry in Kiev
Let's start with the famous 5 second YouTube video released by Kiev and lauded by Washington,
CNN, ABC, FOX et all, of a BUK missile battery being moved, we were told, secretly by rebels out
of the area after the plane crash.
Not only does signage clearly visible in the video place this truck in Krasnoarmeysk
– a town which has been in control of the Ukrainian Army since May 11th. Here is one early news
release of the now discredited video.
In the absence of any real evidence or data, it's worth asking who has paid large sums of
money to create a 3-D computer animation sequences, of what the US/Kiev governments claim look place?
In addition to falsified YouTube video,
Kiev also
published falsified photos of an alleged BUK missile system on July 19th. Kiev's Security Service
(SBU)
published photos online it claimed showed 'Russia' secretly withdrawing a BUK-M system from
the Ukraine civil war zone, but shortly after publishing this article the photos in question
were deleted. The photo released by Kiev was actually an image taken of its own military's
BUK missiles – ironically, our readers will find that Kiev showing photos of its own systems
is much closer to the real story than we previously thought.
Somewhat haphazardly, Kiev's SBU, which is overseen by the new CIA station occupying the top
floor in the same building in Kiev, released two more videos meant to assign blame to rebels in
Donetsk, with Kiev claiming these were of Russian-made BUK-M being transported back to Russia on
July 18th after the crash – but both videos were clearly shot during the winter time, with
one found to have been previously published in March. Again, more intentional lying by Kiev, in
order to assign blame to 'pro-Russian Separatists', and Moscow.
Kiev's Botched Social Media 'Audio Clips'
Early on, Washington and the entire western media machine, made much of two audio 'tapes'
released via YouTube by Kiev officials, alleged to be taken from conversations between 'pro-Russian
separatist' rebel commanders.
Both Kiev and Washington held these up as 'evidence' of rebels using a BUK SAM missile
system to shoot down MH17. The only problem here, is that both 'tapes' contradict each other regarding
the location of the alleged missile batteries.
Vladimir Suchan points out the obvious, "The identification of the direction
of the blast then also disproves the junta's videos with "leaked conversations" from yesterday and
today–for the missile could not then be launched either from Debaltzevo, or
Donetsk, as claimed on both tapes -these places were by then a bit far, and not
in front of MH17. That's also evidently why, today the junta's sites are claiming that the BUK missile
battery was supposed to be in Snezhnoye, forgetting all about their first tape leak with commander
'Bes' from Gorlovka (40 miles north-west). If the Ukrainian Army used a BUK missile, then
it would most likely have been fired from north of Amvrosivka, which is a place of a large concentration
of Ukrainian troops. It is also southwest of Torez and Snezhnoye in the proximity of which the crash
site is located. BUK missiles have a range of up to 20 miles. Enough for a battery in the Amvrosivka
region."
"The only problem is that there is absolutely no way to confirm who "Major"
and "Grek" are, and considering the entire Ukraine civil war has been merely one
provocation and counter-provocation after another, explicitly staged in advance by either the CIA
on the side of Kiev or the Kremlin on the Russian side, one does have to wonder whether the said
two "smoking gun" participants aren't merely two random people speaking Russian and reading off
a script?
The clip concludes with another unnamed "Militant" who supposedly is speaking to
Mykola Kozitsyn, one of the purported leaders of the Cossacks operating in east Ukraine.
The Militant makes it clear to Kozitsyn that it is not a military plane and has "Malaysian Airlines"
written on the side. One wonders just where one could find such writing on the side of the crashed
and exploded fuselage but that one is for the forensics to decide."
In addition, multiple independent analysis's of these audio recordings also reveals that these audio
recordings were not integral files, indicating they were spliced together, as is evident from the
different time stamp dates visible from the raw audio data. It also reveals at least one portion
was recorded, or edited on July 16th – before the crash of MH17.
ITAR-TASS Agency confirms this:
"The tape's second fragment consists of three pieces but was presented as a single audio
recording. However, a spectral and time analysis has showed that the dialog was cut into pieces
and then assembled. Short pauses in the tape are very indicative: the audio file has preserved time
marks which show that the dialog was assembled from various episodes, the expert said. The tape's
linguistic analysis also shows that those who made the faked tape clearly did not have enough material
and time, the expert said. That is why, speech fragments can hardly correlate with each other in
terms of their sense and the spectral picture of audio materials also differs, the expert said.
But the most indicative moment is that the audio tape clearly shows that it was created almost a
day before the airliner crash, the expert said."
Only one conclusion can be drawn here: these tapes were faked, and released after the crash in order
to assign blame on rebels and Russia for this event.
In addition to this, video production on both Kiev 'tapes' matches a previous YouTube video –
same graphics style and editing, which was previously proven to be another fake. Interestingly,
Ukrainian producers used the same actor, an alleged Cossack rebel commander, Mykola Kozitsyn, in
their MH17 audio production.
Zero Hedge also reveals: "Finally, we clearly have no way of authenticating the recording or
the participants, it was just over a month ago, on June 5, when in another attempt to cast blame
and discredit the separatists, Ukraine released another trademark YouTube clip seeking to
disparage and frame Kozitsyn, entitled "Russian
Cossack Formations are Responsible For Chaos In Ukraine."
In summary, multiple falsified information releases by Kiev government officials only
points to one conclusion: a cover-up. By contrast, Russia officials have not released or promoted
any falsified or fraudulent 'evidence' used to assign blame to any parties – instead Moscow released
all of its verifiable data surrounding the incident which has now forced Washington to rethink its
wild approach which previously tried to pin responsibility on Russia itself…
IMAGE: President Obama and John Kerry unable to settle on a version of events (Photo:
RCJ)
Up until now, Washington has been able to give its support to openly fascist and racists
political parties and militants in western Ukraine, but as Kiev's brutal civil war wages on, world
media and more historically-minded members of Europe may eventually revolt against this risky marriage
of convenience.
US Now in Full Retreat and Damage-Control Mode
Amazingly, in a US State Department briefing led by Deputy Spokesperson Marie Harf
on Tuesday July 22nd, Harf insisted that, yes, US intelligence officials still include these 'social
media' posts as part of what Secretary of State John Kerry describes as a "mountain of evidence".
Obviously under great pressure to show strength in the face of a complete collapse in confidence,
Harf (photo, below) could be seen stuttering and twitching nervously as difficult questions were
raised by members of the media.
#MARIE HARF: Under President Obama, State Department spokespersons have become 'political activists'.
In one of the biggest flops in State Dept. history, Harf appeared so desperate to shed any further
questions on 'social media evidence', that she opted for a fatal gaff - stating on record
that "US intelligence officials have authenticated the audio". Unless
she means they've authenticated these as fake, this statement may come back to haunt US
officials. Many are now calling it a bold-faced lie, designed to cover-up the mishandling and over-politicization
of posts found on social media, shamelessly used by Washington to promote a war agenda.
As a result, CNN and others are now scavenging the tragedy, trying to hide the emerging
facts under the heap of its "fair and balanced" mainstream conspiracy theories. The story has now
shifted from what happened, to how US politicians are dealing with the crisis, as was evident
after one major outlet who ran this headline, "Obama: What exactly are they trying to hide?"
On Tuesday, the US government finally admitted (as well as it could), that it had been
bluffing about its 'certainty' that Russia was behind the downing of Malaysian Air Flight MH-17.
Washington's New Conspiracy Theory
In a damage control exercise this past Tuesday, Washington invited members of the majors like
the Washington Post and the LA Times, to an 'intelligence update' briefing, and a press conference
run by the inexperienced MarieHarf.
The
Los Angeles Times reported: "U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine
the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was
possible the SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military
who was trained to use similar missile systems."
The quiet U-turn by Washington signals that its previous case blaming the rebels has been destroyed,
and rather than concede that the Ukrainian Army has actually shot down MH17, they've chosen to instead
concoct a new revision about a "rogue defector" and his "rogue team" who happen to be wearing Ukrainian
Army uniforms.
Washington's new and creative official conspiracy theories now include:
1. Ukrainian separatists shot down plane by mistake after misreading 'fuzzy' radar images
on a much-too sophisticated AS-11 system (as if US intelligence officials were actually there),
probably mistook the airliner for a Ukrainian military plane (reverting to their original line). 2. Missile that brought down Malaysian jet probably fired by 'ill-trained crew' of pro-Russian
rebels
The "ill-trained crew" theory is the work of one U.S. official who, "requested anonymity
because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the issue". And who could blame him?
Finally, Washington ends up at a place it knows well – reducing a major geopolitical event or
crime down to the work of a lone wolf, or in this case, a 'rogue defector'
from the Ukrainian Army, an image which will no doubt fuel even more wild commentary by
Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper, George Stephanopoulos and Sean Hannity.
American investigative reporter Robert Parry (who broke many of the Iran-Contra
scandal for AP and Newsweek in the 80′s) published this on
Consortium News, July 20th (based on his CIA source):
"What I've been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar
matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the
likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under
the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms."
This account is fully consistent with 1) the "anonymous US intelligence officers' briefing from
US mainstream media on Tuesday July 22," as reported, 2) the briefing by the Russian Ministry of
Defense on July 21 and, 3)
Alexandr Zhilin's analysis previously covered.
Backpedaling even further, Washington has officially downgraded its overall indictment, with
another 'senior intelligence official' announcing a brand new party line – a weaker thesis, somehow
claiming that, "Russia created the conditions for this to happen".
More Western Media Manipulation
London's media arms have also sprung into action in an attempt to reinforce Washington-NATO-Kiev
Axis assignment of guilt. In a classic demonstration of its pro-Foreign Office institutional bias,
Guardian writer Shawn Walker carefully attempts to contain the western guilty
verdict, considering only 'pro-Russian rebels' and intentionally reinforcing the 'Rebel-BUK conspiracy
theory'.
Walker states, "Claims by pro-Russia
separatists in east Ukraine
that they have never been in possession of the missile launcher apparently used to down flight MH17
are looking increasingly flimsy, as several witnesses told the Guardian they had seen what appeared
to be a Buk missile launcher in the vicinity of the crash site last Thursday.
The sightings back up a number of photographs and videos posted online that put the Buk system
close to the crash site on the day of the disaster. Just before lunchtime last Thursday, prior to
the Malaysia Airlines plane's takeoff, a Buk was driven through Gagarin Street, one of the central
thoroughfares of Torez, witnesses said."
The Guardian could very well be relaying genuine eyewitness accounts here, but only advanced
media watchers will have noticed the slight of hand being applied here: Walker has ruled out any
other possible suspects other than rebels – skillfully hiding his paper's bias in reporting by pouring
evidence collected into a pre-determined verdict. If the Guardian were not applying an institutional
(British Foreign Office pre-determined conclusion) bias, then its editor would have combined the
eyewitness accounts to the clear satellite photographic evidence provided by the Russian authorities,
and it doesn't take a genius to figure out who was really in possession of these surface-to-air
missile systems – the Ukrainian military.
Official US Plan to Destroy Civilian Aircraft for Diplomatic Gain
The first official known plan to fake the destruction of a civilian aircraft was drafted by the
US Pentagon in 1962. A former NSA analyst at
Strategic Culture reports:
"The use of commercial passenger planes as false flag targets of opportunity for U.S. national
security and intelligence planners is nothing new. The U.S. National Archives yielded
an explosive formerly classified document some five months before the 9/11 attack in 2001. The document,
"Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba", outlined for Secretary of Defense Robert
McNamara, a series of false flag attacks, code named OPERATION NORTHWOODS, which
would be carried out by the United States on various targets but be blamed on the Fidel Castro government
of Cuba. Dated March 13, 1962, the Top Secret NORTHWOODS document was prepared by America's top
covert Special Operations officer, General Edward Lansdale."
"The NORTHWOODS plans called for the sinking of a boatload of Cuban refugees en route from Cuba
to U.S. shores, blowing up an American ship in Cuban waters, and more importantly in light of the
recent downing of Malaysian Airlines flight 17 over eastern Ukraine, faking a Cuban Air Force attack
on a civilian jetliner.
Lansdale and his NORTHWOODS planners concluded that the U.S. invasion of Cuba would receive
wide support as a result of an outraged public. The document states: "World opinion and the United
Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the international image of Cuban government
as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western
Hemisphere."
Most certainly, this blueprint by US intelligence is mirrored today in 2014, as the US and its
NATO member allies (and media assets in tow) using totally synchronized messaging – dominated by
wild speculation, hyperbole and hysteria characterizing the rebels in the east of Ukraine as terrorists,
Russia as the enemy, and President Vladimir Putin as 'the personification of evil' for American
and British media consumers.
The world can only pray, that the truth may prevail.
I think I now have details on the shoot down of the 777 that pin everything in place.
A poster at militaryphotos has noted that the the distance from the missile origin point
in Snizhne to the last known position of the Malaysian airliner is over 26 km (http://i.imgur.com/qqCWE1n.jpg).
Note that this is not the transponder last call location which is much farther west but the
actual shoot down point. The problem is that the older 9M38 Buk missile has a range of 25 km
(http://www.military-today.com/missiles/buk.htm,
they say 20.5 km but that is an obvious typo given the ceiling of 25 km). So it is not physically
possible for some rebel Buk in Snizhne (Snezhnoye) to have taken out a target at 11 km altitude
and 26 km away even if all the pieces were there and it was operated by professionals.
Good catch!
On the other hand, though…
There is that eye-witness account (from the woman watching on the ground – video in comment
above) that the plane TURNED AROUND 180 degrees in the air after being shot.
I agree that, given the fallability of human memory, eye-witness evidence should not be given
very high value if more scientific sources are available. But still, assuming it MIGHT be an
accurate observation from the eye-witness, and by the way, this is Zhilin's theory too: That
the plane was rocketed by the accompaying Uke jet fighter, then turned around 180 degrees, I
guess desperately trying to fly back to Kharkiv or somewhere to make an emergency landing. And
then was finished off by the BUK from the ground.
If this theory has any merit, then:
-The pin in the map showing "last recorded position" in Rozsypne would not necessarily be correct,
as that position is calculated from the theory that the plane travelled West to East at a steady
rate until it was shot down by something not more than 25 km away.
-On the other hand, if the plane was further East than we thought (and then turned around just
before being finished off by the BUK), it could theoretically have been within the 25 km radius
from Snizhne. It could have been travelling WEST when it finally crashed down just north ofTorez.
In conclusion: Whether or not this case can be cracked depends a lot on the "turn-around"
theory, because that invalidates a lot of the math that was done on the assumption of plane
flying West to East at a steady acceleration.
I am not dismissing the theory you describe. But the information I have found and posted is
enough to refute the US official claim as to what transpired. BTW, the turnaround would not
necessarily involve a long flight distance and the regime Buk positions west of Torez would
still be the most likely source of any Buk missile hit.
21st Century Wire is presently arguing that it is a failed false flag. I know that geopolitics
is a rotten game, but I hope they are wrong. That would be too cruel. (I still think that Ria
Novosti got a serious tip-off…)
To Fern, can't we quickly agree that Maria M is not the sharpest axe in the shed. (By the way,
I think that VVP is seriously bright. But he has to be very careful.)
This piece is good, it provides actual radar coordinates and other data for techies to examine.
Also:
On Monday, the Russian government, with almost every major global media outlet in attendance,
released all of its air traffic data and satellite imaging data (in fact, only part of it)
– all verifiable, including time stamps and supporting data. The entire content of the presentation
was also handed over to the European authorities. The conclusions to be drawn from this
are stunning, to say the least. Despite the public release of this information, US and British
media outlets did report back to its people on these findings. They are as follows:
Minutes before the downing of MH17, the plane made a mysterious 'Left Turn' as it flew
over the Donetsk area at approximately 5:20pm Moscow time, making a sharp 14km deviation,
before attempting to regain its previous course before dropping altitude disappearing from
radar at 5:23pm. As we previously pointed out, air traffic controllers in Kiev had already
diverted MH17 200 miles further north into the target zone, so the question remains: was
Kiev ATC also responsible for this final, fatal diversion, or is there another reason for
this unusual turn (see 'Mysterious Left Turn', below)?
According to clear satellite images provided, on July 16th, the Ukrainian Army positioned
3-4 anti-aircraft BUK M1 SAM missile batteries close to Donetsk. These systems included
full launching, loading and radio location units, located in the immediate vicinity of the
MH17 crash site. One system was placed approximately 8km northwest of Lugansk. In addition,
a radio location system for these Ukrainian Army missile batteries is situated 5km north
of Donetsk. On July 17th, the day of the incident, these batteries were moved to a position
8km south of Shahktyorsk. In addition to this, two other radio location units are also identified
in the immediate vicinity. These SAM systems had a range of 35km distance, and 25km altitude.
From July 18th, after the downing of MH17, Kiev's BUK launchers were then moved away
from the firing zone.
This seems to me a pretty slam-dunk case for "Ukropy dunnit"
P.S.
everybody should read the entire piece, it is really good and goes into detail on all the talking
points and evidence brought in so far.
It reminded me that Ukies initially claimed the "rebel BUK" came from Debaltsevo (that was those
initial "wiretaps supposedly of rebel conversations), and then changed their story to the current
"Sneznoe" locations, which also has problems.
When somebody keeps changing their story, that might be a good sign that they are lying.
I think the black box will actually prove or disprove the case; but, unfortunately, that
black box is in the hands of British government; if it shows something they don't want to see,
they will probably destroy the evidence.
yalensis, yeah, it's really bad news that the black boxes were sent to the UK, particularly
since the anti-Kiev fighters had taken so much trouble to keep them out of Kiev's hands and
give them over to Malaysian officials only for those officials to hand them to one of Kiev's
main ideological backers. However, the US/UK can't be absolutely sure who else might have a
recording of the Kiev Control Tower's conversation with MH17 – just as they couldn't be absolutely
sure what Russia's radar and satellites saw – so blatant tampering may be highly risky. Does
anyone know if there are any back-up systems for the black boxes and, if so, what happened to
them? I find it hard to believe that Russia would be unaware of the risk of the black box data
being manipulated and, if aware, would be inactive in trying to head that problem off at the
pass.
21stCenturyWire.com's analysis is an excellent one. However one question remains: why target
a Malaysian Airlines jet and not any other, especially as news is now out that an Air India
Dreamliner passenger jet on its way to Birmingham from Delhi was less than 25 km (90 seconds
away) from the Boeing at the time of the shoot-down.
The flight crew of the Air India jet was asked by air traffic control at Dnepropetrovsk airport
to establish contact with the Boeing crew; apparently ATC had lost contact with MH-17. The Air
India pilots heard ATC giving orders to MH-17 for "direct routing", that is, to fly straight
instead of tracking from one navigation point to another, zig-zag style.
http://www.news24.com/Travel/Flights/Air-India-plane-only-90-seconds-away-from-MH17-tried-to-make-contact-20140721
If the Kyivsters needed to bring a plane down so as to force or nudge the US or NATO to send
peacekeepers to the intended area near the Ukraine-Russia border, they could have shot down
the Air India jet or other jets passing through Dnepropetrovsk's air space. (Singapore Airlines
also had a jet flying nearby.) The Air India plane would have been an ideal target: think of
the propaganda mileage the US and Kyiv could derive from saying Russia had hit an Indian plane,
and pressure could be placed on India to cut any political, economic and military ties with
Russia. India would have to withdraw its support for the new BRICS bank.
Ah – they tried to cover all their options to make it a credible "terrorists soot down plane"
story: the plane should've 'looked' like a Ukie plane, it should crash close to the Russian
border, therefore it should fly from West to East.
Thus a plane flying East to West wouldn't provide a 'reason' for the "terrorists" to shoot down,
because they would supposedly not shoot at a plane coming from Russia. The junta also hoped
to get NATO into it, given that the Netherlands are a NATO member which India isn't, and I assume
they knew that many Dutch people were on board. They probably also hoped that India would be
properly horrified because, for the fascist junta, Malaysians and Indians are all the same:
some brown people, probably also 'untermenschen', thus nothing but collateral damage.
Who knows – it might simply have been rank stupidity.
Yeah, like colliemum says, the Indian airliner was flying in the "wrong" direction: It was flying
East to West. I think the point was to get a bird to fall in or near the "cauldron area" of
the borerlands. Based on speed and distance, in order to get the Indian plane to fall into the
"correct" area, Ukropy would have to shoot at it while it was still in Russia. And that would
not fit with the playbook.
And by the way, I think it is really time for people to take a
second look at that infamous "July 16″ timestamp on the first of the Ukrainian-released "tapes
for the prosecution". That was the tape (with a file-creation stamp of July 16) in which insurgents
supposedly "admitted" to firing off a BUK from the area of Debaltsevo. (Which story Ukies are
now back-tracking from and saying the BUK came from Snezhnoe.)
Granted that a computer timestamp is not definitive proof, but it is one fact to pile on with
all the others; It is starting to look pretty clear that the criminals DID plan this whole thing
in advance, and July 16 could well have been the day when they set the scheme in motion. Then
all the predator had to do was just wait for the best opportunity and the appropriate victim
to wander by.
For their scheme to work, Ukropy basically needed a West-to-East flight to be brought down
in the "correct" spot. I don't think there was anything special about the Malaysian flight other
than that. Malaysians are just an unlucky people, they just picked the short straw, that's all.
There was an element of randomness.
Version of the crash Malaysian Boeing 777 under Donetsk, different from all previous versions published
Russian RIA Novosti. Moreover, it is not even a version of the Agency, which refers to the source...
as a person who serves in the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine. According to the source, the
incident is the result of a tragic accident that occurred during the traning of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft
defence.
Of course, we must realize that information war between Ukraine and Russia is in full
swing now, and it is conducted with the participation of the third countries. For example, the USA.
That reports that the parties advance often do not correspond to reality and often is not an information
but pure propaganda in one form or another. However, we think that in such resonant case, as the
collapse of the Malaysian Boeing, all versions.should be fully introduced and investigated
So, what RIA Novosti reported?
"In the day of disaster Malaysian liner on Ukraine's air defense units of the Ukrainian armed
forces carried out a training of removing the system lock key, the emergency situation occurred.
It could be a cause of the tragedy with Boeing", reports the Russian news Agency, referring, as
noted above, for the information of the source in one of the law enforcement agencies of Ukraine.
The Agency reminds that Boeing flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed on July 17 in Donetsk
region. Onboard the liner there were 298 people, they all died. The Kyiv authorities have accused
militias, while milicia claims that they do not have the air defence complexes which could bring
down the plane at this altitude.
"on July 17, the commander of the 156-th of anti-aircraft missile regiment was ordered to
conduct a training of combat crews which provides cover for ground forces in the outskirts of Donetsk.
That trining included deployment of divisions, to work out the following of targets and to complete
the whole algorithm for folloing and subseunt mock destruction of the targt with the missile Buk-M1"
told the source.
According to him, despite the fact that the commanders of batteries were issued unlock keys to
conduct missile launches, real rocket launch of the rocket 9M38M1 was not planned.
"To participate in the training two su-25 were sent to Dnepropetrovsk from air base Kulbakino
of 229 tactical aviation brigade in Mykolaiv. They were tasked to conduct aerial reconnaissance
and designate targets in the area of focus groups ATO West of Donetsk", - the source said.
"After the entrance of one of the aircraft in the detection zone Buk" it was followed by
one combat crew's battery, located at the settlement Zaramensky. Apparently, according to a tragic
accident after some time the routes of flights Malaysian Boeing and su-25, despite the difference
in levels, coincided, merged on the screen in one major point that was fatal to the civil airliner
as at time of convergence of tragectories the system is automatically continued to follow the one
with larget radar footprint", - he said.
The source was unable to explain the cause of unauthorized missile launch. "At 8:20 PM SBU people
detailed the commander of the battery with the crew", - he explained, adding that does not have
data on the how SBU investigating this case.
"Since 2001 after the tragedy with the Russian Tu-154 above the Black sea on all practical exercises
involving "Books" were prohibited. Accordingly, the servicemen have only practice maintenance of
the complex and driving skills," he said a source in the security Ministry, stressing that this
is his personal opinion.
The Agency reminds that during the exercises of the air defense of Ukraine in 2001 missile system
s-200 shot down a Russian passenger plane Tu-154, following the route tel Aviv-Novosibirsk. Killed
78 people, of them 66 passengers, most of whom were Israeli citizens, and 12 crew members. Courts
in Ukraine refused to admit involvement in the tragedy of the Ukrainian military.
It is interesting, that the answer to this law enforcement agencies of Ukraine? We can assume
that in any case, even if the above proves true, the recognition will not. This, unfortunately,
the world practice: stand, lie to the end, but don't tell us now that you killed innocent civilians!
Do all countries. So neither Ukraine nor Russia confessions should not wait. But hand on heart,
it should acknowledged that the press conference of the Ministry of defense of Russia, was the only
one at which objective technical data monitoring flight of Boeing were presented. And it remains
still the only one, at which some details of the incident were officially disclosed. Neither Ukraine
nor the US, unfortunately, presented anything similar to the world. Which we all want to happen.
Moreover, the US constantly hinting that they have data at their disposal. Hinting but remain
completely silent...
We had an AWACS conducting missions in NATO airspace over Poland & Romania
more than 500nm from the #MH17 crash position. They were only able to track
MH17 until 1300zulu when it flew over the eastern area of Kiew.
FYI: While the total number of aviators can vary for a specific task, it
isn't anywhere near 50 or 60 people. A full aircrew for the E-3A Sentry
consist of a flight crew (2 pilots, 1 navigator & 1 flight engineer) and a
mission crew (1 tactical director, 1 fighter allocator officer, 2 weapons
controllers, 1 passive controller, 1 surveillance controller, 2
surveillance operators, 1 communications technician, 1 radar technician & 1
systems technician).
For more information about each aircrew position…
Prepper Nurse says:
July 22, 2014 at 2:41 pm
Oh my word….at the very least they know who's responsible, and if it was
the Russians they would be shouting it to the roof tops. And if it's not
the rebels, but the Ukrainian government they are at the very least lying
by omission, not wanting to out an ally. Thank you for posting!
After all the propaganda about the downed MH17 flight, screams about alleged looting and demands
of access to the site, one would have expected some serious attempts to immediately investigate
the case.
At the field in Ukraine where the exploded remnants landed, there are no guards and no recovery
workers, no police officers and no investigators. Early Thursday evening, there were almost
no people - just two curious 12-year-old girls looking at part of the tail of the Boeing 777.
...
"There's no one out here," said Michael Bociurkiw, a spokesman for the Organization for Security
and Cooperation in Europe, whose monitoring mission has been on the site every day since Friday.
As for the arrival of international experts, "it's not like our door is being broken down."
After the U.S. blustering "we have evidence" that Russia did it and then showing nothing of it
- "just trust us" - the U.S. seems have lost all interests to really find out who's ammunition downed
the plane. Russia had early on called for an international investigation and it was Russia alone
so far which
presented real evidence on the case. U.S. ships with very capable missile defense radars were
in the Black Sea over the last weeks and likely have very detailed track records of every flight
and missile launch up to several hundred of miles away. None of those have been made public. We
can guess why.
And those "looting" claims?
There were a few new faces at the site on Thursday. Three Australian investigators worked in
the field, joining three Malaysians. Before departing Thursday, the Malaysians said that they
were surprised at the amount of access they had to the site and that they felt safe, Mr. Bociurkiw
said.
There have been widespread reports of looting, but Mr. Bociurkiw said his monitoring group,
which has now spent more time at the site than any other, had not seen any. The Malaysians said
they had seen valuables in the fields untouched, he noted, including a bottle of duty-free perfume,
auto parts, backpacks full of belongings, a watch and some jewelry.
Those claims of looting were false just as the claims of mishandling the remains of the victims
were false.
But the White House will not take back one any of those false claims. It continues its anti-Russia
campaign is coming up with
new claims for which again no facts are presented to back them up:
American officials, citing military intelligence, including satellite images, warned that Russia
appeared to be preparing to arm the rebels with more high-powered weaponry - including tanks and
armored vehicles - than it had previously supplied. In Kiev, a military spokesman said that Ukrainian
troops were coming under increased fire from the Russian side of the border and that the Ukrainian
military had recently shot down three Russian surveillance drones. One was used to target a Ukrainian
base near the town of Amvrosiivka, which then quickly came under heavy rocket attack, the spokesman
said.
Again these are just claims. Not one of the "satellite images" cited was presented.
But the main stream media fall for such nonsense and market it without inserting even the least
bit of doubt.
Clearly the powers who be do want a war with Russia. A cold one for now but a hot one, destroying
Europe's production capacities, would even be better for rather tepid U.S. economy.
thanks b.. yes this seems to be the way the western media operates. be the vehicle for whatever
some us or western official has to say without substance( just infer substance) and then when
it looks like the plane was shoot down during some ongoing military exercise with ukraine and
the usa/nato - make like it is over and nothing happened as it was the wrong side responsible
for the death of these innocent people.. we are being lied to regularly, but the thing i find
most discouraging is this.. someone, or a number of people know what happened here and they
ain't saying as it implicates them..
Hoarsewhisperer
If the byline for all this Yankee-inspired anti-Putin hokum were allowed to just write itself
from the lexicon of public opinion, it would look something like this... New American Century descends into Dog Day Afternoon farce.
This a pattern that we've been frozen in since April. Kiev/U.S. make some outlandish claim
that is dutifully waved through to the front page of the Western press. This in order to stampede
Europe into applying sector-wide sanctions. Merkel makes noises that real stinging stuff is
coming down the pike that will make Putin's oligarchs feel real pain. And then nothing ever
materials. Hit repeat.
The problem is the clocking is ticking in Kiev. Eventually the IMF diktats will have to be
put into effect. Then the troops will have to be brought back from Novorossiya to police the
Maidan. That's why Kiev/U.S. is upping the ante with MH17 and now stories that the Pentagon
is dusting off its war plans for Russia.
shargash
IMO, that the US is changing the subject away from MH17 likely means that the US knows (i.e.
has hard evidence of) who did the shooting, and it wasn't the Donbass rebels or Russia. When
the truth finally comes out, the US will say "Who cares about MH17? Look at all the other evil
things the Russkies are doing!" And if that fails, they'll find something else to distract the
rubes. "Look over there! Ebola!"
guest77
The US media has really stepped up its lying over the events in Ukraine, and to a level
it seems to me far advanced of how it pushed even the so-called Arab Spring. "Oh what a
tangled web we weave" certainly is the case here. and it will be that much more difficult for
the US to extract itself when the Ukraine Crisis finally reaches it climax...
Don Bacon #6. What was interesting about the Harf press conference where she announced that
Russia was shelling Ukrainian positions in Donbas was the reaction of the reporters. They grilled
her awhile for the evidence. Then they began mocking her. One even asked if she would at least
give them a youtube link supporting the story. This question was a snide reference to the youtube
link she provided in an earlier press conference that showed the rebels with a SA6 battery.
She started to get pissed by the end of these questions.
The reporters working these stories
know they are being fed bullshit. Their papers leave that part out.
Here are some more clues from Pepe Escobar courtesy of the Saker blog. The fingerprints of Mossad,
known for past horrendous misdeed, might be appearing -
"The damaged MH17 starboard jet engine
suggests a shape charge from an air-to-air missile – and not a Buk; that's consistent with the
Russian Ministry of Defense presentation graphically highlighting an Ukrainian SU-25 shadowing
MH17. Increasingly, the Buk scenario – hysterically peddled by the Empire of Chaos – is being
discarded. Not to mention, again, that not a single eyewitness saw the very graphic, thick missile
trace that would have been clearly visible had a Buk been used."
Way beyond the established fact of a Ukrainian SU-25 trailing MH17, plenty of unanswered
questions remain, some involving a murky security procedure at Amsterdam's Schiphol airport
– where security is operated by ICTS, an Israeli company based in The Netherlands and founded
by former officers from the Israeli Shin Bet intel agency. And then there is the unexplained
presence of "foreign" advisors in Kiev's control tower.
Despite the conclusion by US intelligence that there is no evidence of Russian involvement
in the destruction of the Malaysian airliner and all lives onboard, Washington is escalating
the crisis and shepherding it toward war.
Twenty-two US senators have introduced into the 113th Congress, Second Session, a bill, S.2277,
"To prevent further Russian aggression toward Ukraine and other sovereign states in Europe and
Eurasia, and for other purposes."
https://beta.congress.gov/113/bills/s2277/BILLS-113s2277is.pdf The bill is before the Committee
on Foreign Relations.
Note that prior to any evidence of any Russian aggression, there are already 22
senators lined up in behalf of preventing further Russian aggression.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/543733-mh17-down-near-donetsk-47.html#post8578950
It has been published this morning in the Russian news that there is an internal investigation
being carried on by the security service of Ukraine concerning potential unintentional launch
of a BUK missile by the army on the day of tragedy.
Do not trust any press, but here is the original article:
It is written that after some BUK batteries arrived into the Donetsk area a few days prior
to the event, a training campaign for the BUK crews was planned and implemented (as the crews
were untrained). To be closer to the reality, a couple of Ukrainian Su-25 flew over from the
Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk area to simulate the real targets that the ground crews should train
with. Everything should have been "real", except for after "pressing the launch button" the
missile should not be ignited and the whole BUK complex should remain in a simulation mode.
A version to be investigated in detail implies that the ground crew of a particular BUK complex
deployed near the village/town of Zaroschenskoye (south of Shakhtersk, close to the line between
the rebels and the regulars) indeed acquired one of Su-25 as a target and the system started
followed him. The ill-fated 777 was flying above Su-25 entering into the beam cone of the BUK
radar. Then for unknown reasons the missile was launched (some experts say it indeed may happen
if the system hardware was not duly reconfigured – AV) and since that radar cross section of
777 is much higher than that of Su-25, the missile chased the MH17. System wise, having two
angular variables identical for both planes should not be enough, as there always is the third
one – range. Was it because just the wrong plane was selected by the operator, or maybe the
range channel did not work properly is difficult to say.
Again, could well be another piece of disinformation, but the whole situation is very similar
to what happened in 2001 when the Ukrainian army was training in Crimea and hit (with S-200)
the Tu-154 flying over the Black Sea coming from Israel to Siberia. Moreover, in 2001 the S-200
operators had enough time to realise that the missile was kept flying for much longer time and
distance than to the target and could issue a self-destruction command (but did not do that
probably being not trained/attentive enough). Here, the ground operator obviously did not have
enough time to divert/destruct the missile.
####
& this from the Guardian
The Guardian: To mock President Putin's pride and test his paranoia is folly The downing of flight MH17 was clearly an accident. This tragedy should not be used as an
excuse to punish Russia.
It is written that after some BUK batteries arrived into the Donetsk area a few days prior
to the event, a training campaign for the BUK crews was planned and implemented (as the crews
were untrained). To be closer to the reality, a couple of Ukrainian Su-25 flew over from the
Nikolaev and Dnepropetrovsk area to simulate the real targets that the ground crews should train
with. Everything should have been "real", except for after "pressing the launch button" the
missile should not be ignited and the whole BUK complex should remain in a simulation mode.
A version to be investigated in detail implies that the ground crew of a particular BUK complex
deployed near the village/town of Zaroschenskoye (south of Shakhtersk, close to the line between
the rebels and the regulars) indeed acquired one of Su-25 as a target and the system started
followed him.
The ill-fated 777 was flying above Su-25 entering into the beam cone of the BUK radar. Then
for unknown reasons the missile was launched (some experts say it indeed may happen if the system
hardware was not duly reconfigured – AV) and since that radar cross section of 777 is much higher
than that of Su-25, the missile chased the MH17.
System wise, having two angular variables identical for both planes should not be enough,
as there always is the third one – range. Was it because just the wrong plane was selected by
the operator, or maybe the range channel did not work properly is difficult to say.
Again, could well be another piece of disinformation, but the whole situation is very similar
to what happened in 2001 when the Ukrainian army was training in Crimea and hit (with S-200)
the Tu-154 flying over the Black Sea coming from Israel to Siberia.
Moreover, in 2001 the S-200 operators had enough time to realise that the missile was kept
flying for much longer time and distance than to the target and could issue a self-destruction
command (but did not do that probably being not trained/attentive enough). Here, the ground
operator obviously did not have enough time to divert/destruct the missile.
Why does foreign policy default to stupid? From the moment that we heard of
the Malaysian
airliner shot down over Ukraine it was clearly an accident. Whoever's finger was on the trigger,
the tragedy cannot have been meant. This was not another 9/11. It was cock-up, not conspiracy.
Yet foreign policy craves conspiracy. Vladimir Putin blamed the Ukrainian government. Ukraine blamed
the pro-Russian rebels. America's UN ambassador, Samantha Power, "cannot rule out" Moscow's responsibility.
London howled blue murder all round. There had been blood. There had to be blame.
What happened was a ghastly mess in bandit country, meriting the swiftest possible restoration
of dignity for the victims. Yet before even the bodies had been collected, politicians vied with
each other for
tightening sanctions, ending trade, expelling oligarchs and freezing bank accounts. Soon they
were fighting like rats in a sack. Barack Obama was a wimp. François Hollande was an appeaser. David
Cameron was a hypocrite. The philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy
hurled down thunderbolts on everyone, "This is the spirit of Munich – appeasement. And it is
a disgrace."
These moments are dangerous. In 1914, the Austrian government declared the madcap shooting of
the Archduke Franz Ferdinand a "Serbian government plot" and went to war. In 1983, the Russians
shot down a Korean airliner that had strayed over Siberia, killing all 269 people on board. It was
clearly an accident, the fighter pilots' ground control being drunk and panicking. This intelligence
was suppressed and the incident exploited to precipitate one of the most scary confrontations of
the cold war.
Five years later it was America's turn, when a US cruiser shot down an Iranian civilian Airbus
A300 in Iranian airspace. The US navy wriggled and excused itself, while Iran seized on it as a
crime of wanton aggression, aided by America rewarding its sailors with medals. Washington refused
to admit legal liability, and took eight years to pay $62m in compensation to bereaved families.
What is terrifying is how such incidents are distorted to suit the interests of revenge. Clearly
Putin has been reckless along Russia's western frontier, backing Ukrainian rebels with enough weaponry
to make accidents more likely to happen. Yet the idea that he willed the tragedy is as absurd as
that Konstantin Chernenko willed the Korean massacre or Ronald Reagan the downing of an Iranian
plane.
Putin must have been as appalled as anyone at the fate of the airliner. It also sabotaged his
delicate power play in the region and threw him on the defensive. Intelligence from Moscow suggests
that he is bruised and angry, retreating into his circle of hawkish advisers and their nationalist
rhetoric. This is the moment Confucius advises us to give the enemy a bridge over which to retreat.
Instead, the west's hawks are having a field day, deriding Putin's paranoia as if to goad him into
doing something worse.
Visiting Russia in the 1990s after its humiliation in the cold war, I found it a sad and dangerous
place, not unlike Germany after its defeat in 1918. Yet it was as if no western diplomat had
read the Treaty of Versailles, or noted Keynes' warning of the consequences. Much was done
to build economic ties between west and east. Energy, investment and contacts flowed back and forth.
Western companies cavorted with oligarchs and kleptocrats. Money stolen from the Russian people
gushed into the wildcat banks of Cyprus and London and into the Swiss and British property markets.
London must rank as the greatest receiver of stolen goods of all time.
So far, so good. But at the same time, Nato and the EU rolled forward over eastern Europe to
the Russian frontier, as if aiming its guns at the gates of Moscow to taunt Russia for its defeat.
Nato apologists argued that any country, be it Latvia, Georgia or Ukraine, should be free to join
whichever club it liked (albeit objecting when Crimeans voted the other way). Yet only fools can
ignore the fact of Russian pride and fear of encirclement. The post-cold war provocation of Putin
was good public relations, but it was rotten history.
We are told that east Ukraine is one of many potential explosions that Putin could trigger along
the Russian border, from the Baltic to the Caucasus. Everywhere are Russian minorities (or majorities)
that could clash with local non-Russians. Europe's leaders have no conceivable interest in stirring
up such conflicts – and yet that was precisely what they sought to do in Georgia and Ukraine.
For Britain – or America – to try and lay down the law along Russia's extensive borders is barking
mad; to use a tragic plane accident as casus belli equally so. It is nothing but breast-beating
machismo. Yet again we lurch towards the woolly-headed daftness of economic sanctions. It is
beyond hypocrisy for the west to demand sanctions against Moscow when it happily buys Russian gas
and sells Russia guns, ships, Knightsbridge flats and places at Eton. These double-standards are
of our hand. According to the commons committee on arms exports, Britain currently sells arms worth
Ł12bn to 27 countries listed by the Foreign Office as "of human rights concern". It cannot enhance
world peace to make Europe's energy more expensive, Russian loans harder to get or Harrods less
accessible to "Putin's cronies". Putin could not care less.
Economic sanctions are to modern statecraft what mounted lancers were to war in the trenches:
magnificent but useless. Their continued deployment defies study after study showing them as cosmetic,
cruel or counterproductive. Yet how many times has Cameron emerged from his Cobra bunker to threaten
"tighter economic sanctions" against some rogue regime, to absolutely no effect? The rhetoric is
always the same, to "send a message", show resolve, impose a price, not to let "wrongdoing go unpunished".
It is as if Britain were some superannuated school prefect.
The emergence in Moscow in the 1990s of a tough, philistine nationalist like Putin was a near
certainty. He may be a nasty piece of work but he runs what it is still a powerful nation. Mocking
his pride and testing his paranoia is for fools. The one country that knows this and can keep a
sane head on its shoulders is run by Angela Merkel. Thank goodness for Germany.
"It is as if Britain were some superannuated school prefect"
Classic.
Governments - particularly democratic ones with short election cycles - rarely think long
term. They focus on immediate gains - an increase in the local opinion polls, their personal
or party's standing on the world stage - etc, rather than the future of their country, its citizens,
and the worldwide community. So it's not surprising that they would exhibit this sort of myopic
behavior and let a future government worry about picking up the pieces.
Yes - That sums up the UK so well. The Brits (Aussies and Canadians too) and their aping of
US foreign policy can also be likened to one the cluster of cowards that hide behind the school
bully as he pummels the designated enemy
keable68 insanedreamer 25 July 2014 10:42am
Exactly. Watching Cameron try to play the hard man on the world stage for domestic political
capital is sickening. And then having to back peddle frantically after criticising France when
it is discovered that the UK Government is still allowing weapons sales to Russia.
Nasty little man. Should have done a bit of research before opening his mouth.
Rolex Tablet keable68 25 July 2014 11:25am
He doesn't do any thinking, he was reading from a script handed to him by obama.
Rialbynot LoicdeMarsillac 25 July 2014 8:01am
And just to reiterate Simon's point, those who are constanly jumping on Putin are driving Russia
ever further from Europe and ever closer to China.
Perhaps this is somehow in the U.S. interest, but it cannot be in Europe's interest.
Rialbynot Rialbynot 25 July 2014 8:09am
And what is so difficult to understand from my East Central European perspective is why the EU has
so utterly failed to persuade the Ukrainian leadership to make real reforms in the direction of
federalism.
Europe needs a modern federal Ukraine, not a whole series of mafia-controlled fiefdoms - the
present oblasts.
The model of governance for Ukraine should be the Federal Republic of Germany. The EU has every
right to insist on this. If Ukraine (the Kiev governing elite) disagrees, well, it can go its own
way - towards total bankruptcy and social disorder,
Simonb101 25 July 2014 6:30am
The problem is that the UK has a lot of assets in Russia - so the quid pro-quo will ultimately be
self-defeating.
I say we stay out of this one and let the pandering lefties in Europe deal with it. Not that
they are capable of doing anything at all - let alone make a decision.
radical 25 July 2014 6:45am
Easily the best piece written about the situation could you send a copy to the Daily Telegraph,
which is looking more like John Bull circa 1914 everyday. Boris Johnson's piece claiming that the
US had behaved with 'wisdom and maturity' over the Vincennes incident was a pack of lies from beginning
to end. Thank you Simon for restoring my faith in the quality of British journalism.
IllWind 25 July 2014 6:57am
In a hagiographic interview with New Yorker, vice president of USA has boasted that America is at
the top an one is anywhere close to them. Mocking Russia, he asserts that they were no match for
US and as if joking adds that except a crazy action to press the button, Russia will always play
second fiddle to them. The savant of global hegemony does not stop to consider that given the conditions,
crazy or not, any Russian leader will press the button! America has been responsible for most of
the injustices and wars and strifes and killing since the second world war, and yet it is creating
all the right conditions for a third one, which like other two, will have origin in seemingly madcap
action.
HauptmannGurski 25 July 2014 6:58am
I have thought for a while that the West is grinding its teeth because they'd want more influence
(power) in Russia. In the West it is the corporations who direct the politicians and the politics;
in Russia it's more the politicians directing the corporations. They think that removing President
Putin will give them more influence over the corporations there, but I would not bet on it.
TommyLimey 25 July 2014 7:00am
The western governments have ruined their economy's and would rather have global Armageddon, than
admit their mistakes ,the demonetization of Putin is part of the plan.
Verbum John Gurley 25 July 2014 7:24am
Why should we make special allowances for Putin, simply because he has an inflated sense of
self importance and destiny?
Why did we make special allowances for George W. Bush who supposedly was in touch with the Almighty,
or his faithful sidekick Blair? Look what happened to Iraq and Libya, what is going on in Syria.
Do you think that the 'rule of law' was ever observed by the 'Coalition of the Willing'?
If you look at the map you may note that USA's border is thousands of miles away from not just
Ukraine but also Iran where in 1988 they downed an Iranian passenger jet flying wihtin Iranian airspace.
The issue of Eastern Ukraine needs to be resolved by Ukraine but definitely not from the position
of power 'borrowed' from the USA. All other parties with direct interest - Russia and the EU both
of whom border Ukraine should have the observer status and strive to help the process.
Juvavum 25 July 2014 7:08am
The conflict, as Mr. Jenkins implicates, is as much "The West's" doing as Russia's. This is true,
but I don't buy into the righteous but misguided school prefect trope. Germany is keeping a level
head. Yes, but that is because it is the actual target. The one foreseeable casualty of the Ukraine
crisis is Germany's long term investment and development policy in Russia. Ukraine is clearly being
used by" The West", in fact the USA and the UK, to sabotage the Merkel-Putin axis. I wouldn't be
surprised if many of the "incidents" that constantly disrupt the peace process were engineered by
the CIA, and if the players, especially some in the Ukraine government, were playing a double game.
KarmaGeddon 25 July 2014 7:24am
Russian demands were simple. Keep NATO off my backyard. But neocons and neo-nazis, drunk on power,
hoping to bring the world under their suzerainity, would not listen. There is still time to come
to terms with Russia through genuine give and take negotiations.
elbowgrease 25 July 2014 7:25am
Spot on, Simon. Isn't the West content to have Putin bend without making him suck? Or is the US looking
for an excuse to provoke the Russian bear into a conflict that could trigger a thermonuclear war?
We need to remind ourselves that NOBODY can say for certain that the separatists brought down the
plane. The jury isn't even out yet because all the evidence - some of it already the subject of dispute
- is not yet in.
Both sides need to step back, take a deep breath and await the outcome of the official inquiry -
and meanwhile put the war drums away.
On the question of sanctions, they are not only useless but downright counter-productive as they
punish innocent and vulnerable populations who end up hating those who impose them rather than their
"guilty" regimes.
Jeremn elbowgrease 25 July 2014 11:03am
The media needs to stop being uncritical of assorted thugs just because they are "on our side".
In this respect I'm thinking of the Ukrainian government, which gets a free ride. They just banned
the Communist Party and the Party of the Regions is next (so any future parliament is going to be
ultra-nationalist), have launched an ATO and are killing civilians with grad rockets and shelling.
In Europe. Svoboda has ministers and controls five governorships (with oligarchs in charge of two
more, and president).
Where are the reprimands, where is the attempt to curb this Frankenstein's monster?
Popeyes 25 July 2014 7:32am
Despite The Ukrainian president saying that there are 'many radars and satellites' monitoring the
skies over Ukraine , Russia is the only country to unveil its radar readings, which appears to show
a fighter plane flanking the airliner before it crashed. The question as to why it was diverted
by Ukranian traffic control 200 miles off course and over a war zone has not been answered. In fact
Russia has had no response to any questions, and there appears to be a complete black out of any
response by the EU member states. It is farcically that although there is no evidence against Russia,
and the U.S has admitted as much , because of sanctions ordered by Washington hundreds of people
will loose their jobs, companies will fold and the European economy will take a massive hit. The
U.S economy won't suffer and it will be champagne all round as they plan to flood Europe with expensive
gas and energy. For the sake of the 300 people who died on that plane there must be an impartial
international investigation, and until there is I would like to keep my job please.
oalexander 25 July 2014 7:34am
One of the few moderating pieces on the issue. On the other side, I have come to the reasonable
conviction, that Ukraine deliberately shot the aircraft down. Air control data do not disappear
nilly-willy. It was the separatists that were willing to guarantee safe access to the site, whilst
the Ukrainians did not. The quckly concocted, fake tapes. The US know all: it would be unreasonable
that they do not have a detailed awareness of what is going on in Ukraine, which they did so much
to get control of; they said they would have comprehensive data, but failed to deliver and came
up with social media gibberish instead.
My guess is, the Ukrainians sought the internationalisation of their civil war, which they seemingly
also have problems financing.
Check out
this story by AP and compare the lame, pathetic and self-evident nonsense of these so-called
"intelligence officials" offer with the hard fact based presentation of the Russian Air Force
Chief of Staff.
Here is the full article with my comments in blue.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Senior U.S. intelligence officials said Tuesday that Russia was responsible
for "creating the conditions" that led to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight
17, but they offered no evidence of direct Russian government involvement.
The intelligence officials were cautious in their assessment, noting that while the
Russians have been arming separatists in eastern Ukraine, the U.S. had no direct evidence
that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.
The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in
discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.
The plane was likely shot down by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed
separatists in eastern Ukraine, the intelligence officials said, citing intercepts, satellite
photos and social media postings by separatists, some of which have been authenticated by U.S.
experts.
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian
operatives were present at the missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew
was trained in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks by
Russia to arm and train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the
commercial jetliner.
In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're
not even 100 percent sure of a nationality," one official said, adding at another point,
"There is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here."
White House deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes said the U.S. was still working
to determine whether the missile launch had a "direct link" to Russia, including whether
there were Russians on the ground during the attack and the degree to which Russians
may have trained the separatists to launch such a strike.
"We do think President Putin and the Russian government bears responsibility for the support
they provided to these separatists, the arms they provided to these separatists, the training
they provided as well and the general unstable environment in eastern Ukraine," Rhodes said
in an interview with CNN.
He added that heavy weaponry continues to flow into Ukraine from Russia following the downing
of the plane.
The intelligence officials said the most likely explanation for the downing was that
the rebels made a mistake. Separatists previously had shot down 12 Ukrainian military airplanes,
the officials said.
The officials made clear they were relying in part on social media postings and videos
made public in recent days by the Ukrainian government, even though they have not been
able to authenticate all of it. For example, they cited a video of a missile launcher said
to have been crossing the Russian border after the launch, appearing to be missing a missile.
But later, under questioning, the officials acknowledged they had not yet verified that
the video was exactly what it purported to be.
Despite the fuzziness of some details, however, the intelligence officials said the case
that the separatists were responsible for shooting down the plane was solid. Other scenarios
- such as that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane - are implausible, they said.
No Ukrainian surface-to-air missile system was in range. (That is a lie as proven by the
Russian satellite imagery and signal intercepts which prove that they Ukies had plenty of batteries
freshly brought right next to the combat zone even though the Novorissians had just one Su-25
close air support aircraft in their entire inventory)
From satellites, sensors and other intelligence gathering, officials said, they know where
the missile originated - in separatist-held territory - and what its flight path was. But if
they possess satellite or other imagery of the missile being fired, they did not release it
Tuesday. A graphic they made public depicts their estimation of the missile's flight
path with a green line. The jet's flight path was available from air traffic control data.
In the weeks before the plane was shot down, Russia had stepped up its arming and training
of the separatists after the Ukrainian government won a string of battlefield victories. The
working theory is that the SA-11 missile came from Russia, although the U.S. doesn't have proof
of that, the officials said.
U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said last week that "because of the technical
complexity of the SA-11, it is unlikely that the separatists could effectively operate the system
without assistance from knowledgeable personnel. Thus, we cannot rule out technical assistance
from Russian personnel in operating the systems," she said.
Asked about evidence, one of the senior U.S. intelligence officials said it was conceivable
that Russian paramilitary troops are operating in eastern Ukraine, but that there was no direct
link from them to the missile launch.
Asked why civilian airline companies were not warned about a possible threat, the officials
said they did not know the rebels possessed SA-11 missiles until after the Malaysian airliner
was shot down. (WHAT? Even I new this, just by reading the reports about the seized Buks,
reports which even included photos. They are really insulting our collective intelligence again!)
Have you counted the "caveat words"? I counted fifteen (depending on what you want to include).
Notice that they consider the Ukie missile as "implausible" but that they never explain why
this would be implausible. And they admit relying in part on social media and Ukie government info?
How absolutely utterly pathetic. I mean - I feel sorry for them. For any self-respecting intelligence
official to admit such things is to commit a seppuku of your professional pride. It's admitting
that you are an amateur and a drooling moron. And here is the deal - I very much doubt that these
men are amateurs or morons. So, yet again, they were back-stabbed by imbecile politicians like Obama
and Power who just are not used to consulting with their own specialist before flapping their lips
and nevermind if they make an entire intelligence community look like cretins.
I can barely imaging how much the US intelligence community must *hate* this administration.
Can you imagine what it must be to be a highly experienced US State Department or DIA career officer
and listen to how the Russians constantly berate the US government for being "un-professional" and
"amateurish" only to then hear that kind of absolute utter nonsense spoken in your name.
Look, in this game I am 100% on Russia's side, but part of me, on a (ex-) professional level
if you want, feels the pain that I am sure many career intelligence officers feel today in the USA
a>
But of course the big news here is this: the US fairy tale about Putin the terrorist is falling
down in flames. Yet again the Neocons by their sheer arrogance, hubris and boundless stupidity manged
to lie their way into a corner from which there is no exit. Not that the US had much street-cred
anyway, not after Colin Powell's dishwasher powder in a vial at the UNSC. But, of course, there
is bad, very bad, even worse and outright terrible. But now the US has reached the "terminal" stage.
The AngloZionists sure had this one coming.
The Saker
PS: in the meantime, check the zoo that the freaks in Kiev made of their "Parliament":
The first apparent hard evidence that
Malaysia Airlines
Flight MH17 was brought down by a surface-to-air missile is emerging from the crash site in
eastern Ukraine, after experts confirmed on Monday there were signs of shrapnel damage to the aircraft.
The federalists fighting in east Ukraine just took down two more SU-25 ground attack fighters
that were bombing their positions. The weapons used against these planes are either simple air-defense
guns or short ranged missiles unlike the missiles that allegedly took down the Malaysian passenger
jet.
The case the Obama administration made against the federalists and Russia in connection with
that MH-17 flight is completely falling apart.
Even the aggressive State
Department spokesperson has to admit (vid) there is no real evidence at all. The "mountain of
evidence" Secretary of State Kerry talked about is nothing but doctored photos and sound files provided
by the Ukrainian coup government. One photo, for example, is supposed to show a missile system in
federalists hands in a town in east Ukraine. But two reporters asking locals there
can not find
anyone who has seen the bulky and loud system. The photo is therefore likely a montage.
After being public criticized for showing no real evidence the Obama administration trotted out
some "senior intelligence officials" who then
admitted that they have nothing, NOTHING, to connect the case to Russia and only vague circumstantial
"social media evidence" that federalists COULD have downed the jet:
But the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives
were present at the missile launch. They were not certain that the missile crew was trained
in Russia, although they described a stepped-up campaign in recent weeks by Russia to arm and
train the rebels, which they say has continued even after the downing of the commercial jetliner.
In terms of who fired the missile, "we don't know a name, we don't know a rank and we're
not even 100 percent sure of a nationality," one official said, adding at another point, "There
is not going to be a Perry Mason moment here," a referenc to a fictional detective who solved
mysteries.
The senior intelligence officials said spy agencies were not aware that an SA-11 system was
in eastern Ukraine until the attack had happened.
So the alleged transfer of such a big weapon system from Russia was either not observable for
the multi-billion dollar, all seeing, all hearing U.S. intelligence or it never happened. Case closed.
But the neolibcons in the Obama administration do not despair yet. The murky Ukrainian company
that hired Vice President Biden's son is now
paying more
lobbyists in Washington. The bribes will flow in bigger amounts. The lies from the Obama administration,
and especially from Kerry, will continue as its tries everything possible to restart a Cold War
against Russia or, if possible, even a hot one.
Let the Europeans bleed. As long as the U.S. is safe everything is hunky dory.
brian
"Russian audio recording experts revealed over the weekend that the intercepts invoked by
Kiev and its Western supporters turn out to be FAKE. Reputed digital sound analyst Nikolai Popov
and his expert team examined the files made public by the Kiev intelligence services, and they
found that the files had been DOCTORED from separate and UNRELATED conversations.
On first hearing, the alleged conversations tend to implicate the self-defence militia in
firing a missile at the passenger plane. But on closer examination, the digital fingerprints
show that the files were fabricated, taken from separate recordings and spliced together to
give the IMPRESSION of integral conversations.
Moreover – and this is crucial – the sound analysis of digital data shows that the tapes
were engineered the day BEFORE Flight MH17 was seemingly hit by a missile and blown out of the
sky.
This latest discovery makes for some incontrovertible and deeply unsettling conclusions:
firstly, parties were involved in DELIBERATELY FORGING the files with the purpose of FRAMING
others – the self-defence militia and Moscow; secondly, and more disturbingly, the people who
faked the files MUST HAVE KNOWN THAT THE AIRLINER WAS GOING TO BE HIT with a missile, or some
other catastrophic external force, in order to bring it down with all the horrific loss of life
entailed."
describing Ukrainian fighter planes hiding
behind passenger planes to bomb the city.
So the pro-Russians knew the Ukrainian government was trying to do this and did their best
not to fall into the trap.
bevin
In 2000 the price of oil was about thirty dollars. Today it is around $100. The main beneficiaries
of this price revolution are marginal hydrocarbon producers: the frackers and the shale/oil
sand miners, whose production costs are so high that production at less than $40 a barrel is
uneconomical.
Perhaps this is why the Canadian government, a jointly owned subsidiary of the oil companies,
is so anxious to impose sanctions on Russia which will immediately increase oil and gas prices
globally.
Those benefiting from the tragedy involving the airliner also include a wide range of anti-EU
("Fuck the EU!") interests, including those who regard European manufacturing and technology
as the main competition to US firms. It is no accident that the neo-cons, as a political force,
were organised around the Senator from Boeing, after whom the international neo-con organisation
the Henry M Jackson Society is named. Opposition to Airbus and other European industries, including
the French shipyards that built the Mistral cruiser for Russia, is extremely excited at the
prospect of cutting off or controlling the energy supplies for the German auto manfacturers,
for example.
And then there is a significant body of opinion, which includes the Polish ultra nationalists,
which sees the crippling of Germany's economy as a desirable object.
Finally there is the reserve currency question: Russia could easily arrange barter and euro/rouble
deals which would cut the dollar out of its gas trade with Europe. This would be of particular
benefit to the EU economies, which already enjoy significant advantages, over the US, in dealing
with Russia and China. It would be a fundamental boost too, to efforts to replace the IMF and
World Bank duopoly.
thepanzer
Zero Hedge is reporting Putin may be calling back the Duma for an emergency session. Lots of
speculation on what for. The next few days will be very interesting.
Also, I need a bag of popcorn to watch the western claims deflate in real time. My assumption
is that the European leadership's own Intel, combined with what might have been shared via Russia,
had them telling the US back-channel that they weren't willing to lie to their publics' and
risk falling on their swords again like with the bogus Iraqi WMD intelligence. Likewise I wonder
if team Obama got push back from the US intel agencies and military who weren't willing to go
forward with such an obvious pack of lies.
Care to place odds on Seymour Hersh or Bob Woodward being passed data from disaffected beltway
insiders on the real scoop in the next few months? I'm sure there are a LOT of republican generals
who'd love to knife the administration if they think they can get away with it. Leaking data
that the Ukrainians themselves shot it down would be a massive blow to Obama's already defunct
credibility on the world stage.
US policy is made by people who think that what works in the United States will work everywhere
else. What works in the US are poll-tested smear campaigns carried by mass advertisement. It''s
worked for the past 60 years and especially since Lee Atwater perfected it for Bush I in the
1988 campaign. American politics is all tactics and no strategy. So far the Big Lie has worked
pretty well at home: abroad, not so much, which is why the Administration are at a loss in situations
where they do not have the option of applying overwhelming unansweable force. They are in an
ocean where they do not know how to swim. Rice and Kerry are beyond pathetic, and Obama is just
behind. I guess they didn't pay attention during the False Flag module in their foreign policy
course. No matter what JSorr thinks, I believe these people are working above their pay grade.
Why Can't the MOTU get a more competent crew of flunkies. It's not like their is any shortage
of people ready to sell out their country for 15 minutes of fame and a cushy foundation presidency
after.
karlof1
In his article today, Pepe Escobar notes the biggest piece of evidence that proves no BUK
missile was fired--no thick, easily visible contrail from the alleged missile that would sill
have hung in the air when MH17 hit the ground--and this lack of evidence has many proponents,
myself included. "The damaged MH17 starboard jet engine suggests a shape charge from an
air-to-air missile - and not a Buk; that's consistent with the Russian Ministry of Defense
presentation graphically highlighting an Ukrainian SU-25 shadowing MH17.
Increasingly, the Buk scenario - hysterically peddled by the Empire of Chaos - is being discarded.
Not to mention, again, that not a single eyewitness saw the very graphic, thick missile
trace that would have been clearly visible had a Buk been used."http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-230714.html
Pretty devastating footage, the missile warhead with fragmentation shrapnel must have exploded
right underneath cockpit at front side of plane -
photo. [port front of cockpit = left side]
Another a close parallel between Ghouta and MH17 is the resultant caterwauling when the false
flag failed to fly. There is a
story in the NYT today about the petulant cries emanating from Kiev now that it is apparent
that Germany is not going to be stampeded into leveling more sanctions on Russia.
Obama's consigliere Denis McDonough was in Berlin trying yet again to line Merkel up against
Moscow. It is not going to happen. Blowing apart a passenger jet didn't work, and neither did
gassing a bunch of women and children. But the U.S. and its various clients and proxies will
keep trying. We can count on that.
Noirette
MH17 is a case of get in and early with your version (US) of events.
Remember Benghazi? First it was a pro-muslim demo that went out of control and on the rampage.
I and two others on this board immediately said BS, because it was presented as a reaction to
an anti-Islam film which, I have forgotten the details now, only had a mild trailer, was not
available / seen by anyone, or not even produced yet. In any case such a demo would not kill
ambassador "Stevie."
Then it was downscaled in the news to a 'small demo' that confused the situation and finally
- now, there was no demo at all ...
The public has only the first glaring headlines and they don't forget them, which is
of course the point. Putin as Hitler is to be impressed on the public's mind-set is similar.
Sure kicking in open doors, many here are aware of such manipulations.
However, it grows thin when one has to back down in the space of a few days. Although one
can write it off with 'confusion on the ground', 'inadequate information' (I don't think so),
etc. Both the US and Russia know or suspect what happened to MH17. But revealing is a piece
of a long term now gruesome political hysterical war, fought for now in the MSM.
My reading is that beyond prop. purposes against Russia (a new cold war or boiling up to hot,
and so on which distracts from the ME failures and Israel, and most important, keeping the EU
from aligning with Russia or China, the BRICS, etc.) is that the US cannot admit it's mistake
in accidentally falling into the Ukrainian cauldron, which is at heart a fight between fiefdoms
and oligarchs with all the private underground hoopla which the US (neo-con-libs..) cannot possibly
understand or manage, beyond financing their temporary 'champions' or 'allies' etc.
Sure, the US has been meddling in the ex-USSR and the 'Stans, the human rights democracy
etc. BS, not denying that, but when called on to step up to the plate, get really involved,
there is not much on hand except obfuscation, favoritism towards one or another 'partner' (vassal,
stage-front puppet, paid off goons shills on the take etc.), with massive destruction, which
serves the arms-milit-contractors-big Corps and the MSM. This scorched-earth policy provides
quick and massive profits and self-felt kudos short-term for some, but then what?
As for MH17, all the guff about ground to air missiles was clamoured because that was
the only way the separatists could be blamed. That was planned, from about 3 - 10 months ago,
imho.
How it was brought down is another discussion. it would be good to get to the nitty gritty
of that.
Here's an alternative theory (and only a theory) about what happened to MH17; the reason
why everyone is indulging in all this bigoted Russia-bashing. The elected junta in Kiev were
spitting nails that the ragtag of separatists had shot down not one but two of their military
aircraft, using a Buk surface-to-air missile system that may or may not have been stolen from
the junta, or came from unofficial channels in Russia. But you see, the separatists aren't quite
as stupid or clumsy as everyone has made out. They know very well that an anti-aircraft missile
battery has to be treated with respect - for PR reasons, the last thing they want to do is bring
down a civilian airliner. Now though, the first scandal was that civilian aircraft were still
allowed into eastern Ukrainian airspace, after two planes had been shot down. But this is where
it gets quite dark. Someone in the junta came up with the idea of sending a civilian airliner
near to the limit of the new exclusion zone (this is a matter of public record; MH17 was told
by Ukrainian air-traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet, although it had requested to fly at
35,000 feet; UATC records were seized by Ukrainian govt officials after the crash and there's
a serious likelihood of 'water damage'). Reports vary, but one or two Ukrainian fighter jets
then appear to have been scrambled to 'escort' MH17 - but this was a death trap. It meant that
the Buk system on the ground picked up the radar signature of the jet/jets; a missile was launched;
the jets peeled off and the missile hit the airliner. The junta has a propaganda victory at
the cost of 300 innocent lives.
Russian's to be stupid enough to supply a bunch of drunk thugs with SA-11s
I am sure that the US Navy personnel aboard the USS Vincennes were all extremely well trained,
professonal and cold sober when they shot down Iran Air 655.
Both tragedies prove that war is unpredictable and you just can't be sure what happens when
people start fighting, whatever the reason.
Nothing can justify what happened, though I sincerely hope it was an accident, not a cold
blooded murder. My heart goes out to the families and friends of those who died in downing of
MH17. However, I can't help wondering that there were no UN Security Council resolutions, mass
hysteria and accusations, which we see now, when the Iranian passenger plane was shot down all
those years ago. Why? After all it was shot in Iranian airspace by a warship of a foreign power
thousands of miles from its home shore.
Lastly - the whole situation would not have happened if there was no meddling in the affairs
of Ukraine. Both Russia and the West should from the onset of the crisis have strived for a
politicfal solution. The rebels are ethnic Russians living in Ukraine, Poroshenko should seek
a compromise rather than military force alone. Gaza is best proof that even an overwhelming
military force does not work.
And - by the way - it seems that USA has about as much control over Israel as Russia over
the rebels in East Ukraine, and both support their proteges with equal zest. Pot and kettle
comes to mind.
The 32,000' upper limit of restricted airspace would not be for protection against SAMs that
could go to 50,000'+, rather as a procedural means of separating Ukrainian military aircraft
from overflying airliners on established air routes. All it meant was that controllers could
not direct airliners lower into airspace where Su25's were milling about.
The SA-11 system
that fired the weapon appears to have been only a TELAR component of the complete system, with
limited surveillance radar and no intel feeds from higher up as would be the case with the apparently
missing TAR and command/control vehicles (ask Google). All that the TELAR operators with their
basic 100Km range (6 minutes in a 777) targeting radar (elevation dependent) would 'see' would
be a radar 'blip' away from the established air route (why off-route ??) and maybe as
rumored in company with a Su25 blip.
The missile is a 'semi-active homer' which navigates itself to achieve a constant angle to
the largest (brightest) radar reflection bouncing back at it from the TELAR which is 'lighting
up' the target for the missile. Constant angle = assured collision; try it in your car.
If there was a nearby Su25, then all that the missile would 'see' is not the multiple 'blips'
from each aircraft but the brightest one if the TELARs targeting radar lobe lit up both the
Su25 and the 777, which would have been the huge radar cross-section of the 777 and the missile
would compute a constant angle path to that aircraft alone.
An off-route aircraft, decisions made in the heat of battle by a tired crew, three guys in
the TELAR doing group-think, missile seeker electronic logic working differently to operator
aiming head logic ? Google up James Reason's "Holes-in-the-Cheese" theory of accidents.
Malaysian Airlines routing their aircraft into this very feasible situation, where Ukrainian
aircraft had recently been shot down well above MANPAD limits ?? The fact, that after the accident
MA sent it's aircraft over Syria and Iraq, is an indicator that while they are aware of threats,
they are basically, just dumb.
Passenger plane was flying by. 1:16 And Ukrainian attack aircraft hid behind it. Jun 18, 2014'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The girl from Sloviansk says:
"1:07 Terrible things are happening.
1:09 For example an incident that happened recently. Passenger plane was flying by.
1:16 And Ukrainian attack aircraft hid behind it.
1:22 Than he lowered his altitude a bit and dropped bombs on residential sector of Semenovka
town.
1:27 Than he regained the altitude and hid behind the passenger plane again. Than he left.
1:31 They wanted to provoke the militia to shoot at the passenger
plane. There would be a global catastrophe. Civilians would have died.
1:49 Than they would say that terrorists here did it. There are no terrorists here. There
are regular people here,"
Published on Jun 18, 2014
Winifred Kiddle -> Per Sonne, 23 July 2014 8:54am
there's no real evidence. Investigation hasn't been carried out. Only evidence has been on
social media. Why isn't the US putting up their evidence? They've got spies, they've got satellites.
Aye?
I'd have thought that overthrowing the elected government for a fascist regime that effectively
declared war on their population might have been the major 'condition creator'.
Well, that's a DIFFERENT PR game to be played. I think, actually, it was in the US's interest
get this airplane indecent out of the way lest other unfortunate questions started getting asked.
Now we can go back to sanctions against the bad-guys who overthrew the peacefully elected
government in the Ukraine.
cirqueliker -> someoneionceknew, 23 July 2014 12:10am
The Ukraine isn't a fascist regime. No one is buying the use of that word, the propaganda
coming from Russia has failed.
The Ukraine is far more democratic than Putin's Russia and people in the rest of the world
want to see it perservere and not let themselves be overrun by a man driven by Soviet nostalgia
and KGB ethics.
Jools12 -> cirqueliker, 23 July 2014 12:18am
It isn't? Then explain why there are Neo Nazis holding ministry positions in Kiev's government
Well actually, it was Ukrainian air control who directed Boeing into war zone - not Russia..
It is US and EU who are providing money to Kiev regime to finance the war against eastern part
of country clearly Not supporting coup in Kiev.
Even more to say... It was US embassy who
engineered coup d'etat in Kiev, supporting neonazi's and triggered all this mess.
Yet more to say...
BUK launcher is part of defense network and requires radar to give it a target coordinates
and vector.
At altitude 33000 and speed almost a thousand km/h - it Requires TWO radars at least to triangulate
and track target.
Rebels simply don't have trained teams and Hardware to accomplish such hit.
The launcher itself has capability to track targets up to 4km altitudes and 10km distances
only.
Even if launcher that fell into rebels hands from Ukrainian army would Worked.... it is a
huge problem to find qualified operator to this system.
It was adopted by Russian army just in 2008.. Ukrainian army operating older version of it developed
by USSR.. which didn't came out from testing.
Actually, Sceptic12 has a very good point, and your attempts at grade 9 science or asking how
the rebels shot down other planes are meaningless (they were at much lower altitudes and did
not require sophisticated guidance systems).
The Buk system requires three vehicles, and specialist
operators.
So if the rebels or the Russians themselves did it, there are only two possibilities.
If the rebels (as was reported) captured a Buk system from the Ukrainians it is unbelievable
that they could break its security code and provide a specialist team capable of operating it
within a matter of days. Just pointing on a shoot and hope basis would hit nothing.
If it was a system supplied by the Russians with their own specialists, it is rather odd that
they would not have contact with Russian air defence control in one of their most closely monitored
border areas (i.e. be capable of tracking and distinguishing civil from military aircraft)
So wat exactly did the Russians have to gain from shooting down a civilian aircraft.
The Ukrainians on the other hand have form on this. They have (older) Buks, and in October 2001
they managed to shoot down Siberia Airlines flight 1812 over the Black Sea with 66 people on
board.
some or all of these scenarios are possible. I just wonder which is more likely. To go back
to the original point, however, you do need three vehicles and specialist operators to use that
system with any chance of success.
Alexander Andreev -> crunch, 23 July 2014 6:38am
As far as I know all other aircraft was shot down using portable launchers at much lower altitudes.
There are NO confirmed hits at higher altitudes.
As for the BUK complex - you can read about it yourself. It requires FOUR different vehicles
to be operational. It contains of a command vehicle, a radar, a launcher and a loader. Probably
you can ditch the loader as long as you don't need to reload the launcher but it won't fire
at all without the other three. There are no sightings let alone verified evidence of rebels
having anything except the launcher. And even some images of the launcher are confirmed to be
made in Ukranian-controlled territory, including the one showing the launcher with incomplete
missile set.
Of course there is already another bullshit theory being pushed in by we know who which blames
Russia of transferring a launcher vehicle in the rebel territory complete with operators and
leaving radar and command vehicles right at the border then using them to lock on the airliner
and firing the missile remotely. And then recovering the launcher vehicle leaving no evidence.
While technically it might be possible it completely lacks motive and evidence.
As for the BUK complex - you can read about it yourself. It requires FOUR different vehicles
to be operational. It contains of a command vehicle, a radar, a launcher and a loader.
Rubbish. A TELAR (transporter erector launcher and radar) vehicle – which combines a radar
and launcher – is perfectly capable of acquiring a target and shooting without any other components
of the system. A whole BUK battalion would also include a command radar vehicle for improved
target seeking and identification, and TEL launcher/re-loaders without radars, but the TELAR
vehicle is capable of operating alone.
A TELAR vehicle working without a command radar would not be able to identify IFF signals
given out by planes to identify themselves – probably why this accident happened.
Yoda00 22 July 2014 11:55pm
Here we have the US judging how Russia is responding to this. When the US shot down an Iranian
Airliner from a ship that was illegally in Iranian territorial waters, it took the administration
years to acknowledge that the USS Vincennes was indeed inside Iranian territorial waters, and
many years after that to quietly settle out of court with no apology or acceptance of wrongdoing.
US Newspapers argued sanctimoniously about how there were mitigating circumstances in their
editorials - The same newspapers that unconditionally condemned a prior incident where the Soviet
Union shot down a Korean airliner. Pot. Kettle.
CienfuegosHeroico -> BrooklynNonHipster 23 July 2014 1:06am
Actually, BrooklynNonHipster, I think Yoda00's post was relevant, if not necessarily quite on
point. Of course, we should withhold judgment until the facts are actually known about MH17,
but for argument's sake let's say Russian-backed rebels did accidentally shoot down the plane.
What should the U.S. response be? As Yoda00 pointed out, the U.S. once accidentally shot down
an Iranian airliner (1988); in fact, a similar number of people were killed and an initial cover-up,
or at least obfuscation, was apparently attempted. At no point did the U.S. suggest that they
should be demonized for doing so or should receive sanctions for doing so, and indeed, the U.S.
has to this day refused to apologize or admit wrongdoing (although they did, eventually, pay
compensation for the families). Why then should the U.S. demand anything different from any
other nation-state in the same situation they were once in?
CienfuegosHeroico -> Yoda00 23 July 2014 1:29am
Although not a common occurrence, there is a history of civilian aircraft being shot down in
conflict situations, usually by accident. In most cases the guilty party, when guilt was admitted,
issued apologies, blamed the incident as some unfortunate outcome of whatever tensions were
happening, and the tragedy was left at that. Sometimes compensation gets paid. Certainly not
a satisfying pattern of response, but that is the historical precedence. Why should Russia have
to abide by a different standard than any other nation, if indeed their proxies were responsible
for this?
Interestingly, this isn't the first time the U.S. and their friends have been able to score
cheap political points against Russia out of such tragedies; after the Soviet shoot-down of
KAL 007 in 1983, Reagan was able to use the emotion arising from the incident to deploy more
advanced nuclear weapons in West Germany, despite flagging support for such a move, thus dangerously
increasing cold war tensions.
Nikolla, 23 July 2014 12:01am
So, not enough "facts" to blame Russia?
That's pity, for the presstitutes already did their best, as usual, and so enthusiastically.
Somebody should compensate the western "journalists" for their time and efforts.
OldSwingingVoter -> Nikolla, 23 July 2014 3:50am
So Russia is the bad guy again. Forget about the 600 plus, women and children mainly, that
have been slaughtered by Israel. America cautions them, of course, but continues to give them
more than $4Billion aid every year. And of course if there's any criticism, you are accused
of anti-semitism. What a hard luck world we live in.
HansVonDerHeyde -> JeremyinOz, 23 July 2014 4:18pm
While the whole media is reporting about More Sanctions and blaming everything on the "Evil
Aggressor Communist"
Civilians continue to die. Ukrainian Jets airstrikes in Luhansk July 21.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQH8orMZyWc
And In July 18 ,Army Shelling Luhansk. more civilians casualties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATqVXKQ6-ns
http://cs619931.vk.me/v619931145/d0ab/J5jJo4o4WdM.jpg
http://cs619931.vk.me/v619931145/d0b2/Yzhka6dZ3l8.jpg
But hey -- ! Who cares , they are not Dutch or Germans....So dont worry....
ucic, 23 July 2014 12:05am
MH17: US intelligence says Russia 'created conditions' for plane disaster
US officials stop short of blaming crash directly on Moscow and say separatists likely
shot down plane by accident
Derisory! Since the tragedy, and before the release of any credible evidence to confirm who
was responsible, we have had politicians from the US & their UK & EU lapdogs, in tandem with
a supine (or, what appears to be a castrated) MSM, screaming and pointing their fingers at Russia.
Now, after the US intelligence state: "rebels likely shot down MH17 'by mistake,'" we are being
dripfed the line that the "fault lies with Russia," purely in order to save the faces of inept
political leaders.
Meanwhile, close to the site of the crash, the Kiev junta are still busy killing their fellow
countrymen in the region.
US intelligence says Russia 'created conditions' for plane disaster
LOL --
In February 2014, the US mounted one of its "colour" coups against the elected government
in Ukraine, exploiting genuine protests against corruption in Kiev. Obama's national security
adviser Victoria Nuland personally selected the leader of an "interim government". She nicknamed
him "Yats". Vice President Joe Biden came to Kiev, as did CIA Director John Brennan. The
shock troops of their putsch were Ukrainian fascists.
For the first time since 1945, a neo-Nazi, openly anti-Semitic party controls key areas
of state power in a European capital. No Western European leader has condemned this revival
of fascism in the borderland through which Hitler's invading Nazis took millions of Russian
lives. They were supported by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), responsible for the massacre
of Jews and Russians they called "vermin". The UPA is the historical inspiration of the
present-day Svoboda Party and its fellow-travelling Right Sector. Svoboda leader Oleh Tyahnybok
has called for a purge of the "Moscow-Jewish mafia" and "other scum", including gays, feminists
and those on the political left.
Whether the "rebels", Kiev or whomever shot down the passenger jet remains to be publicly
proven. Empirically testable evidence and not conjecture, dogma or propaganda will rule the
day.
Until that point, nothing that the US, Kieve, Moscow, EU etal officialdom says is valid.
1410 23 July 2014 12:09am
If Russia is responsible for MH17, the US is responsible for the slaughter of civilians in Gaza
and the perpetration of war crimes (shooting children, shooting ambulances, shelling hospitals,
targeting Mosques, targeting sports stadiums, targeting journalists, targeting schools). I think
the US crimes are bigger.
In terms of Means Opportunity and Motive (MOM) , it is more likely that the US-, UK-, EU-, Australia-
and neo-Nazi-backed Ukrainian Government forces were responsible for the MH17 atrocity. Unlike
the rag-tag Separatists (1) they had Buk missile systems in the vicinity and skilled operators;
(2) they have leaped to join the US-led anti-Russia lynch mob with fabricated evidence; (3)
they immediately benefited from the US-led global media blitz; (4) the MH17 downing provided
cover for the war criminal invasion of Gaza by US-backed Apartheid Israel (600 Palestinians
dead, 4,000 wounded, 100,000 homeless in response to zero (0 ) Israelis killed by Gaza rockets
in the year before the invasion) ; (5) in 2001 they had actually shot down a Siberian Airlines
passenger airliner Flight 1812 with a missile killing all 78 on board (Google "Siberian Airlines
Flight 1812"); and (6) Russian Defence has provided evidence for a Ukrainian warplane shadowing
MH17.
In contrast, the pro-Russia Rebel Ukrainians had not been supplied with Buk missiles, lacked
skilled operators, had nothing to gain by this atrocity and , contrary to utterly offensive
media reportage, were the only people attempting to secure the bodies.(the Ukrainian Government
has escalated military action in the vicinity.
Not all the American intelligence community thinks the rebels did it. Word is out that those
operating the BUK battery most likely to have fired a missile were in Ukrainian Army uniform.
I'm talking about the LA Times, which says that intelligence points to UA uniforms, but now
with the idea that they were UA defectors working for the rebels.
"U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or
identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the
SA-11 [anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who
was trained to use similar missile systems."
Slowly, slowly, the story unravels.
Next we might hear that they were one of the AA Regiments sent by Kiev to Donetsk in early
July.
I note the US is slowly backing away from who to blame for the
downing of the MH 17 . First , it was Russia conspiring and directing , then Separatists operating
a Russian Missile System supervised by
a Russian expert , now the Separatists , due to lack of training , made
a "mistake" in firing the missile . How do you make a mistake in a War
zone ?
I would like to fill in the blanks , if I can use Russian intelligence .
The Russians sighted a SU 35 fighter jet operated by an Ukrainian
pilot at 20,000 m heading towards the MH 17 at 30,000 m . I would
like to hear the Americans refute this opposing statement . Just a
comment would suffice !
The fighter could have attracted the attention of the missile to the slower easier target of
the airliner, if so, the fault of the coup instated government in Kiev.
Good post. I would like to say that the notion that the rebels can fire a BUK missile by accident
is total BS. It takes tracking and in fact coordination with air traffic control to down a jet
from that height. I'm not prepared to say who did it, but it certainly is within the realm of
possibility that the Ukrainian's did it, but I think you are seeing the US backing away from
the accusations.
Ukrainans have clearly lied about not having BUK missiles in the area, and the fighter jet
in the vicinity of the the Malaysian jet's flight path. The Russians have produced satellite
images of Ukrainian BUK installations, unlike the Americans who still have not. Robert Parry
reports on consortium.news and seems to have good sources within the CIA, that US intelligence
has images of soldiers in Ukrainian army uniforms firing the missiles. This happened in the
middle of the day, and it strains credulity to think that the US doesn't have satellite images
of the launch. Why not release them if it bolsters their case?
The Daily Mail published a selfie of Ukrainian army regular guarding a BUK installation as
the "smoking gun" of Rebel complicity. They didn't realize that it was actually a Ukrainian
army regular until readers and bloggers corrected them. So once again, Ukrainians caught in
a lie about BUK missiles.
Alexander Andreev davros49 23 July 2014 7:09am
You are right calling these missiles "sophisticated". And this is the major problem with
the theory blaming rebels for accidentally shooting down a wrong plane by pressing a wrong button.
Because these systems are so complex there is no chance they could fire it without trained operators
and at a random target. It just does not fire accidentally.
And this makes it disturbing. When someone is accidentally shot with a shotgun while walking
in a forest with a hunt going nearby this is believable. When someone is shot with a sniper
rifle while standing alone on a empty square while wearing civilian clothes and holding umbrella
it is much less believable that the shooter has mistaken the victim for a enemy soldier.
Russian companies including energy giants Rosneft and Gazprom need to refinance nearly $112bn
within the next four years, something that sanctions could make difficult
Russian companies are facing a $112bn wall of debt over the next four years, according to rating
agency Moody's, as Western powers move to strangle credit lines to the country.
The US has already imposed sanctions that effectively shut the energy giants Rosneft, Novatek,
and Gazprombank out of US debt markets.
That could make the refinancing of $111.6bn (Ł65.4bn) worth of debts due between now and 2018
more complicated.
Moody's said that while companies on the periphery of the eurozone received much of the focus
last year, the refinancing concerns may shift to Russia, which accounts for about 10pc of the total
European debt pile of $1.06trn
Pressure is mounting on the EU to match the punitive US measures on Russian corporates, extending
the strangle hold to the European credit market as a response to the downing of a Malaysian passenger
jet.
Indeed, European banks have "a lot of money at stake" in the Ukraine crisis, according to analysts
at UBS. The institutions covered by its researchers have lent more than €60bn (Ł47bn) to Russia
and Ukraine, excluding "any investment banking activity", the Swiss lender said.
The banks covered by UBS most exposed to any credit selloff in the reg ntext of US sanctions
and a weakening economic outlook in Russia," said Jean-Michel Carayon, Senior Vice President in
Moody's Corporate Finance Group
It seems to me that people within the US military an no doubt some parts of government have
pushed back against the current US line that 'It's da Russians wot Dun it!' because it would
unravel all sorts of important links and inter-dependencies. I have little doubt that the Kremlin
has told the US behind the scenes that if they don't slap their winkle back in the shorts that
Russia will withdraw all sorts of cooperation from intelligence sharing, proliferation, Iran
etc. and leave the US to drown. I also wonder what China might have said too, though something
along the lines of 'such actions and accusations without clear evidence would be contrary to
healthy ties' and probably some European countries have also told the US diplomatically to FO.
It really smells like the US has seriously overplayed its hand these last few days and has
damaged itself. The US reality bubble is finally starting to wobble, but what would it take
to make it pop???
The Russian government did not immediately comment on the downed fighter planes. But a spokesman
for the Russian Foreign Ministry issued a forceful statement on Wednesday accusing the Ukrainian
government of making false accusations against Russia, specifically in relation to the downed
passenger jet.
"Instead of cooperating with a thorough and unbiased international investigation into the causes
of the accident, the results of which would then be made public, with maximum transparency, the
Kiev authorities daily and hourly come up em>Malaysian experts pored over smaller pieces of wreckage
for a second day, and expressed surprise "at how much access we have," Mr. Bociurkiw added, but
as for other foreign experts, "it's not like our door is being broken down."
In a clear sky, if the Su-25 was as close as the Russian radar plot indicates, it is likely the
pilots of MH17 would have seen it, and would have communicated this to Ukrainian air control on
the ground. The record of that communication, the radar tracking data at the Ukrainian air control
centre, and communication from the air controller in charge of MH17 are all in the safekeeping of
the Ukrainian authorities. A
website posting from the Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise (UkSATSE) promises
to "provide all necessary data from ground facilities, evidence and assistance in order to determine
the actual causes of the tragedy". So far they have not released the evidence.
Oleksandr Sokolenko (right), chief of the Dniepropetrovsk air control centre, refuses to say
what has become of his records of the July 17 operations, and he won't comment on what he knows.
Whether Poroshenko has reviewed this evidence isn't known.
The same data, including flight information and voice communications between cockpit and Ukrainian
ground control, are also held by the black boxes from MH17. Malaysian Airlines executives took charge
of the boxes from the Ukrainian separatists on Monday. They have been freighted by a Belgian Air
Force jet to a laboratory in the UK accredited by the International Civil Aviation Organization
(ICAO). These data have yet to be decoded; verified as authentic and complete; then published. The
process may take months.
So what really happened? A crew fired an SA-11 at a target they believed to be a military attacker,
and hit MH17 by mistake. The missile was made in Russia and supplied to the Ukraine by Russia. Whether
the crew was from the Ukrainian military, or from the separatists, is not yet known. If they were
Ukrainian forces, they are likely to have believed they were defending against a Russian military
attack they had been expecting as retaliation for Ukrainian artillery shelling across the Russian
frontier last week.
If they were Ukrainian separatists, they are likely to have believed they were defending their
positions in and around Donetsk and Lugansk from combined air and ground force attack.
The Russian and US intelligence versions now agree the missile shot was a mistake committed
by men who thought they were in the middle of combat. The difference between the two versions
remains who fired. The evidence available should be conclusive on this point. For the time being,
the US intelligence officers say they aren't sure.
If the US withholds its satellite pictures of the missile launch, and if the Ukrainian authorities
withhold the air control tapes of the radar tracks, radar screen shots, and cockpit communications,
then the preponderance of the evidence shifts - and the probability grows that it was the Ukrainian
military who fired.
Now the fact the the plane was from Holland makes a lot more sense...
The mayor of the Dutch city Hilversum Peter Broertjes in an interview to Radio 1 called "throw
away" from the country the daughter of Vladimir Putin, which, presumably, lives in the town of Voorschoten.
At this point it is beyond any one (or countless number of) human beings to distinguish truth
from lies from epic propaganda, so we won't even try. Here is the latest relevant news that
just crossed the stream from Ukraine's defense ministry. From Bloomberg:
REBELS DOWN 2 UKRAINIAN FIGHTER PLANES TODAY, IFX REPORTS
REBELS DOWN SU-25 FIGHTERS IN DONETSK REGION: DEFENSE MINISTRY
More from Reuters: Pro-Russian rebels have shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets, a spokesman
for Ukraine's military operations said on Wednesday. The spokesman said the two were downed
near Savur Mogila in eastern Ukraine. No details were known about the pilots.
Pro-Russian separatists shot down two Ukrainian fighter jets Wednesday over a town close
to where Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU -2.17% Flight 17 crashed last week, a Ukrainian defense ministry
spokesman said.
Two SU-25 planes were brought down near the town of Saur-Mogila, which sits close to the
Russian border and is 20 kilometers (12 miles) from Torez, where the civilian jet was brought
down last Thursday, the spokesman said.
The alleged shoot-down of the jets would mark the first time a plane has been brought down
over Ukraine since the crash.
The spokesman said the army dispatched a team to the scene to establish the exact circumstances
of the downing of the jets. Rebels didn't immediately comment
Somehow we have a feeling this is merely yet another attempt by Ukraine to keep the pressure
on the rebels now that the international response to MH17 has been muted by nearly 100% following
Europe's complete inability to agree on what if any sanctions should be imposed on Putin, and the
US state department presenting evidence of Russian involvement that can best be described as laughable.
SheepRevolution
Well it's quite obvious now the the US will do everything and anything in order to start
a full-scale war in Ukraine. I couldn't possibly imagine that it would have something to do
with 1) the coming stock-market crash and 2) Germany not willing to take side with the US and
put sanctions against Russia (which in turn puts even more pressure on the US Dollar)... Right?
The leader of the pro-Russian rebels accused of shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17
said his forces did not have any of the surface-to-air missiles as alleged by American and other
Western governments.
"I am telling you again, we have never been in possession of a single BUK (surface-to-air missile)
system," Alexander Borodai, the leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, told CNN's
Chris Cuomo in an exclusive interview on the channel's "New Day" programme yesterday.
"I can list all of the means of defence that we have. All of these means of defense are capable
of only crashing low-flying targets."
Borodai dismissed the widely held belief that rebel forces had shot down the Boeing 777-200 over
the eastern Ukrainian region of Donetsk, killing all 298 people on board.
"I don't know what to say because the world community doesn't want to hear it. We had no reason
to take down this plane and Ukraine had this reason to destroy our government," he said.
Borodoi was also asked about a Twitter post, which Western intelligence had cited as proof that
rebel forces had the BUK, a Soviet-era surface-to-air missile system capable of long-range attack.
"It is very simple to disprove it. All the information that comes through the Internet, in my
opinion, is practically all lies."
He said his forces had nothing to gain in shooting down a civilian airliner, adding that for
"Ukraine our enemy, the crash of this plane is very beneficial," said Borodai.
Borodai, however, refused to answer Cuomo's question on the support his forces were getting from
Moscow, saying he would not comment on questions touching on Russia as he only represented the breakaway
government he headed.
The interview is the first direct comments from the top rebel chief since the shooting down of
flight MH17, which departed Amsterdam for Kuala Lumpur, on July 17.
Coinciding with Borodai's rejection of the allegations against his forces is a claim by Russia
that a Ukrainian fighter jet could have brought down the Boeing 777.
Andrei Kartapolov, the head of the General Staff's Main Operational Directorate, said that a
Ukrainian fighter jet, a Su-25, had tailed flight MH17 moments before it crashed.
He said the MAS airliner lost speed at 17.20 and disappeared from radar screens at 17.23. It
then veered off its course to the north over Donetsk, at one point as much as 14km.
"The reason for flying off the course – whether the crew made a navigational error or followed
Ukrainian air traffic control commands – can be learned only from flight recorders, known as 'black
boxes' and from recorded communications of the air traffic control," said Kartapolov.
Rebel forces yesterday handed over the black boxes, which could shed light on flight MH17's final
moments, to Malaysian officials, following a deal reached between the two parties. – July 22, 2014.
I feel like USA is taking this opportunity to bring down Russia. In this case, I
think should let the experts to do judgment.
Not simply pointing finger at anybody, especially when Netherlands (major victims' came from)
and Malaysia yet to issue any official statement saying who should responsible for this. I'm
Malaysian, but I think simply blaming Russia based on somebody said something isn't right thing
to do.
Saying 100 times that rebels downed the plane does not make this more credible than saying
it once. Most people believe that revels downed the plane. If there is nothing new to say then
repeating accusations can only make this look suspicions. All evidence in this tragedy is circumstantial
so far.
Ukraine is acting though as if it knows that there will be no more factual proof. Ukrainian
president declared that this was an act of terror before most even heard about the tragedy.
Did Ukraine know something or this was just "a shot in the air" ? I believe that rebels shot
the plane but circumstantial evidence points so far that this was a tragic mistake, which is
not the 1st of this kind. Impatience by Ukraine in capitalizing on the tragedy is exactly what
is suspicions. Would Ukraine have prevented the tragedy if it could? The more Ukraine "benefits"
from the tragedy the more I doubt so.
This turns me from unconditionally supporting Ukraine and sanctions against Russia to a more
cautious position. Let's wait for more facts in this tragedy. Ukraine's comparing this to 9/11
is a gross exaggeration demonstrating a clouded judgement at best. This is a real tragedy but
Ukraine implies an evil plot comparable to 9/11. 9/11 is an unprecedented terrorist attack;
comparing an accidental downing of a civilian plane by rebels to 9/11 makes 9/11 look "innocent",
which is an offensive proposition at best.
From comments: This, brilliantly said by Russell Stevens below, this is why we don't just blindly
believe what we are told by our "impartial, honest" media any more... "...It started for me in the Kosovo
war, NATO lied endlessly, almost the default position was to tell lies. Then we had WMDs, then we have
massacred by Gadaffi that never happened, fake chemical weapons attacks, its an endless series of LIES.
Look at Cameron, stood up in the House of Commons after the BBC changed the words "napalm" to "chemical
weapons" in a Panorama Special which I am convinced used actors, and he said "if we do not stop Assad
now he will continue using chemical weapons more frequently". He never did.
It is just endless lies for geopolitical money grabbing wars. It is WORSE than the Soviet Union
ever used to be. For God sake people take off the blinkers, we are the New Soviet Union...."
I think Obama lost here, including all momentum and clout against Putin, because of the continued
US support for the Israeli slaughter in Gaza. How in the world can anyone support sanctions
against Putin when the US is enabling war crimes in the Middle East, still not willing or working
to promote sanctions or punishment of Israel?
Without the Gaza tragedy, the focus would have been on the Ukraine. It seems hypocritical
to castigate Putin given the horror in Gaza and the refusal of the US to take a moral stand.
mjakes20, 22 July 2014 1:33pm
I hope any investigation proves unbiased and conclusive. In the meantime, I'm sick of seeing
both sides using selective evidence that feed into existing prejudices in order to advance a
political agenda. Once again, RIP to all on board.
Michael Bluth mjakes20, 22 July 2014 2:33pm
Actually only one side has produced any evidence at all. The US have quoted some social media
posts - or rather referred to them without quoting.
VladimirM, 22 July 2014 1:34pm
"EU foreign ministers meet in Brussels to consider more sanctions against Russia, with David
Cameron leading the charge for tougher measures."
I start thinking that sanctions have nothing to do with Ukraine. No matter what Russia does
or Putin says new sanctions keep arriving and arriving. I think that they are related to
the US-lead battle for gas exports, especially of LNG. The latest US' actions targeted Rosneft
and Novatek, for example, which is telling.
I have no idea why the EU is so determined. The US will win gas (or oil) money, but Europe
will undermine her energy security even more because Russia sells, but has no political influence
on the EU. The US will have both influence and resources to sell.
loveminuso VladimirM, 22 July 2014 1:42pm
Spot on...You have to be an especially cold, thuggish psychopath to use the deaths of
298 human beings as a tool to extort an entire nation, who until now have no proven evidence
against them of any wrong doing. This is what makes up the English and US Goverments…sick
thuggish common criminals..capable of any deceit for personal gain…we are in big trouble.
21st May 2014 is the date that is going to go down in history as the start of the new Cold War.
That's when Russia signed its big natural gas deal with China to the tune of 400bn dollars.
signalling that the world's economic axis was shifting to the East. The Eurasian Century is
upon us. After that the BRICs started plotting to set up their own alternative petro-currency
regime, essentially an alternative to the American dollar reserve. If that got off the ground
and OPEC for example started demanding payment or even part-payment in a basket of yen-yuan-Euro,
then the US economy would be devastated and it would be the end of all their military adventuring.
Now this is quite attractive to Europe, especially for the Germans who are just basically asking
themselves, especially after the NSA spying scandal, whether they would be better off tilting
to Moscow.
This is the big picture. Dangerous times ahead. If Iran slipped the net, and joined
up with the Sino-Russian axis, I think the US would lose it entirely.
Interesting to see the changes of the British public opinion in course of this tragedy.
Before the MH17 the most recommended posts were "pro-Russian", I'd evaluate the score as 3:1
for Russia.
Right after the accident the mass media started a massive propaganda attack, full or unchecked
"facts" (well, to be precise it happened after Obama's speech where he gave first directions
on who to blame).
And the score turned the opposite, say 1:5.
Now it quickly comes back.
16:35
Today in 14.50 Moscow time in Avdiivka happened reignition Coke plant, owned by the oligarch
Rinat Akhmetov. Fire brought fire from mortars and howitzers from captured by the national guard
under Orlovka, said "Russian news service" in the press centre of DND. Last night, the factory
was already on fire, but in the morning was extinguished.
16:29
Odessa "europadangos" mark Gordienko, which the judge of the Kyiv district court Yulia Fedoseeva
accused in the attack, was released. As informs a portal "Duma", the investigator decided that
to detain the activist and elect him the measure of restraint for no reason. Earlier it was
reported that Odessa "euromaidan" came to the building of the interior Ministry and promised
to burn it, if Gordienko will not let go.
16:17
Ukrainian troops continue to fire at the Lisichansk, despite the fact that the militia left
the city. This was reported by the unit commander of the army LNR Alexey Brain, quoted by the
Agency "new Russia". He noted that militia left the Lisichansk after the shelling of the city
by the security forces to save civilians.
So the spokesman for the OSCE mission said they received "no obstruction" that their passage
to the site was "incredibly fast".
Yesterday the Dutch experts said the efforts of the team
were "impressive" and they did "a hell of a job". The bodies were in an "acceptable" condition
and "treated better then we were lead to believe."
The bodies were handed over, the black boxes were handed over. Neither was "held hostage".
People should step back from the hysteria, you owe those people some respect
How is the war in East Ukraine progressing, I assume Ukraine and its allied Western military
advisers are using the cover of the MH17 tragedy to move more weaponry and forces into play
?
Sadly I doubt we (as in the US) have lost control of Poroshenko. I think he is probably being
closely guided by the CIA who are allegedly quite a presence in Kiev at the moment. We don't
concede second place to anyone when it comes to sociopathic self-interested slaughter
This, brilliantly said by Russell Stevens below, this is why we don't just blindly believe what
we are told by our "impartial, honest" media any more...
"...It started for me in the Kosovo
war, NATO lied endlessly, almost the default position was to tell lies. Then we had WMDs, then
we have massacred by Gadaffi that never happened, fake chemical weapons attacks, its an endless
series of LIES.
Look at Cameron, stood up in the House of Commons after the BBC changed the words "napalm"
to "chemical weapons" in a Panorama Special which I am convinced used actors, and he said "if
we do not stop Assad now he will continue using chemical weapons more frequently". He never
did.
It is just endless lies for geopolitical money grabbing wars. It is WORSE than the Soviet
Union ever used to be. For God sake people take off the blinkers, we are the New Soviet Union...."
Here's what a Republican US Congressman and former presidential candidate Ron Paul says about
US State Dept. propaganda:
"While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda
on the event, there are a few things they will not report," Paul, a former Republican congressman
from Texas, wrote on his website. "They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late
last year, when the EU and U.S. overthrew the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych.
Without U.S.-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed
in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened…
"They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack
on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia
is being blamed for the attack," Paul said. "They will not report that the missile that apparently
shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good
deal of training that the separatists do not have."
http://time.com/3012968/malaysia-arilines-ukraine-crash-ron-paul/
How blessed are the USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, where everybody is immigrant and nationalism
in its European form has no roots. This civil war unleashed by junta against South East is the now looks
similar to Yugoslav war. Air bombardments, tanks and arttellry are used against civilian targets. And
as Napoleon noted, God is always on the side with better artillery :-(.
1. Donetsk, Lugansk and surrounding towns and villages being bombarded ceaselessly by Uke forces
using every weapon in their possession, Grad, Hurricane, Tornado and Smerch MLRS and arty up to
20.3 cm.
2. In last 4 days over 300 civilians in the aforementioned areas have been killed and
a like number and more wounded. Civilian and industrial areas completely devoid of any Army of Novorossiya
facilities and troops are targeted as is infrastructure such as gas, water and electric services.
3. Shoot down of MH17 has focused all world eyes on the aircraft. The Ukes are using this to
unleash an assault on the civilians of Novorossiya with unprecedented savagery. Entire MLRS volleys
are being fired in to cities, towns and villages away from the prying eyes of the press.
4. The Cauldron has not been reduced. Although the remaining two battalions of airborne and armor
troops have been decimated and have lost most of their equipment and transport both are still dangerous.
5. The Ukes are pressing Army of Novorossiya very strong. There has been a noticeable change
of tactics in some areas of fighting by the Ukes, obviously a change of command or advisors.
6. Heavy fighting around both Lugansk and Donetsk Aerodromes. Neither side seems to have an advantage.
7. Situation in and around Slavyansk and Kramatorsk is grave. Little food and water, some electric
in certain areas. Many roads blocked by Uke block posts. Military age men and some women are still
being arrested.
8. The fate of the Militsiya detachments from Slavyansk and Kramatorsk arrested after Strelkov
withdrew are still unknown. No information or contact to any of their families since 05 July afternoon.
9. Travel by private vehicle in areas of Novorossiya from the Kherson Oblast/Novorossiya border
is dangerous. In the countryside at some small road intersections there are one, two or three civilian
cars and trucks with the occupants shot dead.
10. At one intersection of two country dirt roads two cars are shot. Lying beside one of the
cars are three local villagers, one man and two women, obviously shot to death while trying to either
help the wounded occupants of a car or trying to remove the bodies. Locals are terrified and rarely
leave their villages. Crops are untended.
11. One small natsgardia/right sector unit of 8 was ambushed in Kherson/Novorossiya Border area
by unknown assailants and their bodies left neatly arranged along the forest path, weapons and equipment
removed by unknown personnel. Near the ambush sight a young woman was found dead. She had been outraged
and murdered.
12. Civilian travel in east and southern areas of Kherson Oblast can be dangerous. In the areas
north of the Krimea/Kherson Oblast border numerous patrols of natsgarda/right sector.
13. Vehicles and the few trains coming to Krimea from Kherson Oblast are searched for valuables
and most of the military age men detained and taken 'to the office'. They either pay a large bribe
to be allowed to continue to Krimea or are press ganged in to Uke service and sent to the fronts.
14. The refugee situation in Krimea is difficult. No one is left without succor that need it.
As in reports from Cassad and Strelkov there are many entire families of refugees fleeing to Krimea,
arriving in cars and vans packed with personal belongings, food and drink, vehicles often with the
tell tale 'special' license number arrangements. Russia tells all they will be moved to other oblasti
in Russia. Many of this category of refugees demand to be housed 'near the beaches', demand refugee
status and demand services.
15. 35000 refugees are in Krimea alone, over 300000 refugees have fled to Rostov Oblast and many
moved to other oblasti. It is estimated that a like number of refugees are staying with family and
friends in Russian Federation. Another 50000 have fled west to Ukeland.
16. In the area around the MH17 crash scene the Ukes are using the local truce for the crash
investigation to move and gather units for an assault designed to split Donetsk from Lugansk. OSCE
and foreign press on sight fail to see armored columns gathering in the general area.
17. Novorossiya is being hard pressed. The Ukes are using their overwhelming numbers of armor,
arty and MLRS to 'mob' the Army of Novorossiya. Opinion is the situation is in balance and could
tip either way, victory for Novorossiya or total defeat.
Guardian editors were probably terrified that nobody buy State Department talking points and closed
discussion after 31 comment (in 14 minutes). The first comment was published at 6:06 PM and the last
at 6:20)
So is the U.S., as the sponsor of Israel, responsible for the safety of UN investigators
and humanitarian operatives in Gaza?
If Obama's statement is supposed to be based on some kind of principle, then there is no
way to conclude otherwise.
Of course, none of U.S. foreign policy is based on principle; only agenda, packaged in the
language of principle.
Victor Chan, 21 July 2014 6:04pm
And because???? Obama said so? Or because???? Putin is already found guilty and he has to
prove his innocent??? Hehehe.... Because the Obama administration does not have proofs to show
that it was the separatists who shot down the plane? I am sure the CIA and the NSA have proofs
that it was an Ukrainian jet fighter which shot down the plane. They won't reveal it or to say
it because it would help Putin and to discredit Ukraine and the Obama administration. Now, Putin
has to show the world that it was an Ukrainian fighter jet which shot the down plane?
martinusher, 21 July 2014 6:06pm
Short of Russian troops securing the area I don't know how Russia could 'rein in' the locals.
We're talking as if these people are directly controlled from Moscow (which they obviously aren't
because this wouldn't have happened in the first place). We're also talking as if chaos and
confusion is the norm at the crash scene when it looks as if things are quite well organized
considering the circumstances.
The amount of bluster coming from our leaders is starting to worry me. I'd expect them to
milk this tragedy for all its worth -- that's what politicians do --- but the way its unfolding
is starting to suggest to me that things aren't quite as they seem.
42Robert42, 21 July 2014 6:06pm
Obama....Your administration is quick off the mark to denounce Putin and Russia without comprehensive
proof (over the downing of MH17), yet you are agonizingly slow to denounce Israel when you have
proof beyond doubt, with dead Palestinian bodies piling up by the minute. Double standards what?
Georwell, 21 July 2014 6:07pm
Please, mr Obama, come back and show us the US satellite pictures...the US radar records....
please ask Ukr to publish the Kiev radar records.... Please show us SOMETHING... cuz you have
so many spy toys there, right ?....
And some [should] inform Potus the bad terrorist rebels move the remains not to destroy evidence,
but to stop the decay and wild animals ...
All hands up, on mid time, for Malaysian envoy who manage to take control of the train and
make the first REAL step on the process of returning the victims remains to the familiars...
he has done in one day MORE then all shameless politicians...
Blimey, I'm starting to feel like a one-man news-desk on this issue - if you missed my earlier
bulletin here it is again...
Can we at least end the trance-like delusion about denial of
access to the site for air-crash investigators, continuing to be repeated like a zombie mantra.
"The burden now is on Russia to insist that the separatists stop tampering with the evidence,
grant investigators, who are already on the ground, full and unimpeded access to the crash
site. The separatists and their Russian sponsors are responsible for the safety of investigators
doing their work."
Observers have only had limited access up until today yes. The Dutch experts, who are the
first foreign air-crash experts to arrive (note, none have arrived and been denied access)
have had no restrictions placed on them. If an army of journalists can reach the site...
Pro Russian rebels at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 have granted European
monitors and experts nearly "unfettered access" to wreckage Monday, according to a spokesman
for Security and Co-operation in Europe.
The rebels even provided some perimeter security to keep journalists at bay, creating
a "dome of tranquility" for the OSCE monitors, three Dutch forensic experts and a handful
of Ukranian aviation experts now at the scene, Michael Bociurkiw said Monday in a briefing
hosted by the Ukrainian Crisis Media Center.
Here is something besides the propaganda, from on of our own Congressman Ron Paul:
"Western
politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster.
It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said," the former presidential candidate wrote.
"While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a
few things they will not report."
One of those unreported things, Paul claimed in his weekly "Texas Straight Talk" column,
was the United States' own responsibility for destabilizing the region. Ukraine is currently
embroiled in violent conflict between the Ukrainian government and the pro-Russian separatists.
"They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported
protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without
US-sponsored 'regime change,' it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest
that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened," Paul wrote.
ID9793630, 21 July 2014 6:20pm
Well this brings us back to the point: If Putin is to be held directly responsible for the
safety of investigators, shouldn't he be given a 'free pass' to send his troops into Ukraine
to provide reliable security? After all the government in Kiev does not seem to have an adequate
mandate to govern the country and does not seem to be too competent or trustworthy in security
matters.... ; )
I don't know who shoot down the Boeing. But I am sure that something went wrong. For the past
two days propaganda machine of the world's media is clearly stalled. Information offence exhausted
itself within 24 hours. It does not happen without serious cause. Because all the signs "sensation
of the world level" is obvious: almost three hundred victims, "terrorists, mocks the remains of
the victims", geopolitical scandal involving Russia. Official Kiev produces "evidence of a terrorist
attack" with the speed of the conveyor belt. From "fire spotters", detained on the border with the
Russian Federation, to records of the conversations between field commanders telling details of
destruction of Boeing 777.
The only thing that is missing from Kiev parapagnada is the confessions of a rocket that hit
civilian aircraft. And why Western media is relictant to continue the husteric is veiw of those
Kiev "reveraltions"? What they (the Western MSM) are still missing?
You know, during the so-called " hot phase" of the EuroMaidan" (February) hysteria in the Western
MSM was tremedously higher. The important statements followed each other every two to three hours.
Were recrected and put of 24 by 7 duty all the speakers, experts, representatives of "human rights"
organizations. The State Department and the European Commission literally competed in the amount
of messages that were issued per hour. The information bar "Interfax-Ukraine" literally all was
red (the color of highlight the most important leads that precede the information itself). None
of that we can obaservee now. After initial artelly bombardment for three days all is quite on the
Eastern front. Just poor Jogn "Assad poisoned his citizents with sarin" Kerry trying to sustein
the attack. This is at least strange. The impression is that at the last moment the nessesary provication
went wrong, the plane crashed inthe wrong place, and now the designers need to take a break to adapt
the script. There are still very little proven facts that would allow to build an easy to understand
picture of this event. However, we still try.
Almost immediately after the tragedy with the "Boeing" a massive offensive of all Kiev forces
in the direction of Lugansk and Donetsk started. The battles are now conducted in the suburbs of
those two megalopolises. And no one cares about civilian casualties. On Sunday defense Minister
Galatea reported about a whole series of military victories." Among them - the next unblocking of
Luhansk and Donetsk airports, the occupation of the South-East of Lugansk, blocking all the channels
of receipt of military aid to militia. Igor Strelkov, according to available reports, reported heavy
fighting. Information about "liberation" of the two airports was not confirmed. The enemy, according
to militia, throws into battle tanks and armored personnel Carriers without infantry support.
Small raiding "death squards" are active in the Metropolitan area, killing everyone. The official
propaganda is interpreting this as the "rebellion of the local population, killing the militants."
There are not new about military units, which fell in the boiler in the area of Ukrainian-Russian
border. Occasionally appear posts, were solgers ask ATO command to send reinforcements.
Tanks must break into the Donetsk and Lugansk to push the ball in the centre and "to hoist the
Ukrainian flag. Where - is not important. To perform this task thrown all available in ATU resources
and reserves.
It becomes clear: the command of the ATO has set the task to take the Luhansk and Donetsk at
any price up to a certain date. Often July 22 is cited. Cities-satellites should be, apparently,
just wiped off the face of the earth. Tanks must break into the Donetsk and Lugansk and rush to
the center in order to "to hoist the Ukrainian flag." What will be the price is not important. To
perform this task all available in ATO resources and reserves are thrown into the fire. They do
not pay attention to communication and supply, which is stretched. Simultaneously a compaign of
conducted a campaign in the style of "victorious advance of the forces of ATU, hundreds of militants
surrendering leadership fled to Russia" is conducted via Ukranian MSM.
And let's get back to the Boeing. The impression is that the plane crash was a signal to the
beginning of a massive attack. As the three green missiles. Were they waiting for, when somebody
knocks a Boeing 777? No, of course. The most likely was the following scenario was to abuse the
situation when the world was hit by this terrible tragedy How to best use this situation? First,
to declare Russia "the center of international terrorism" and a "rogue state". Secondly, block the
rebellious regions from supplies and wait. Whether coming of "precision weapons" from the USA, "peacekeeping
forces", or facts, irrefutable evidence of the involvement of Putin personally to the tragedy
Besides continuing his rants against Russia, Yats also dropped this little
gem:
Он также уточнил, что украинские военные не использовали в ходе проведения силовой операции
на востоке ракеты класса "земля-воздух".
"Украинское министерство обороны даст всю информацию о местонахождении всех ракет противовоздушной
обороны", - отметил премьер.
TRANSLATION
He also clarified that Ukraininan troops did NOT use any rocket of the "ground to air" class,
at any time in the course of the conflict in the East. "The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense will
give all information about the location of all rockets of anti-air defense," the P.M. replied.
END OF TRANSLATION
Reading between the lines:
(1) Nobody in the international community (not even Ukraine's staunchest allies) trusts Ukraine
to properly handle either bodies or crash investigation; and
(2) Nobody in the international community (not even Ukraine's staunchest allies) trusts Ukraine
about its ground-to-air status, until they give a complete audit of all their hardware and where
it is located.
yalensis, yes, I agree. However much public embracing of Ukraine into the European 'family'
has gone on, no European or world leader places any confidence in Ukraine and its politicians
whatsoever.
The EU and, particularly the Dutch, however, have missed a trick. They should have insisted
from the get-go that Kiev immediately release the recording of the conversation between the
Kiev control tower and MH17.
Now the records have been taken over by the SBU so the chances of ever hearing an undoctored
version are pretty slim.
Is there ANYTHING these Sky News reporters are not capable of doing?
I watched the whole video on youtube, but some reason it can't be linked from there, as it
tries to "embed" itself. In the full video, the reporter first sheds some crocodile tears over
the victims, and then praises himself for his "sensitivity" in not showing bodies or body parts.
He then proceeds to rifle through somebody's luggage, "It's a small girl's bag, I think,"
he picks up some pink object right out of the suitcase that once belonged to a child…
then pauses to comment: "We shouldn't really be doing this."
And these hyenas were the ones accusing the Rebels of looting!
Putting it concisely: Apparently every BUK has a number, which is painted on
the side. This particular BUK is #312.
SBU, in making their case that "Rebs dunnit", posted the photo (2 photos down) showing BUK
#312 being hauled on a trailer-truck, supposedly from Russia, across the border to deliver to
Rebels.
However, the video (beneath the photo), which was taken in March, shows a bunch of Ukrainian
BUK's, including #312, driving in a convoy near the town of Horlivka.
Vid was taken from dashcam of a car, it drives past BUK's with the following numbers painted
on them:
321, 312 (at :37 seconds in), 301, 331, 332,.
From this, it follows that BUK #312 is Ukrainian army, NOT Russian.
Thinking logically:
I suppose it's possible there could be two BUK's with the same number, one from Russia,
and the other from Ukraine (?)
Other possibility is that #312 belonged to Ukraine, was captured by Rebs, taken to Russia
for fixing up, then returned from Russia to Rebs (?)
In any case, I think it is good that "international community" is asking Ukraine for a full
audit of all their ground-to-air hardware.
More news from PPRUNE that might back up Carlos, ATC at Borisopol who tweeted under Spainbuca
that ukranian military aircraft were by the 777 3 minutes before the event. Where is Carlos
since all foreign ATCs were kicked out by Ukranian security and ATC tapes siezed???
According to an authoritative source, two Su-27 Flankers escorted the Malaysian Boeing 777
minutes before it was hit by one or more missiles.
The Aviationist " ?All flights, including Malaysian B777, were being escorted by Ukrainian
Su-27 Flanker jets over Eastern Ukraine?
A quote:
Quote:
In other words: since the Russian interceptors had downed a Su-25 on the previous days, the
Ukrainian escorted all military and civil flights over eastern Ukraine on Jul. 17. Including
MH17.
It seems that despite the best efforts of Washington, London and their acolytes to bounce the
EU into serious sanctions against Russia when they meet in Brussels on Tuesday, cooler heads
are prevailing and are sticking to their line that they want to see the investigation in to
MH17 play out, not rush any actions.
Is this the last throw of the US/UK dice?
Cameron blasted Merkel and others who don't follow his line in the Sunday Times recently,
but taken in light of the drubbing he has got over trying to get someone else rather than Juncker
and his appointment of a EuroCommisar being put on hold (all Commission appointees are on hold
until another EU meeting in Brussels in August), then it is clear that Cameron is playing to
his domestic political audience and trying to win/keep votes from UKIP supporters.
Russian materials will be sent to the experts of the leading European countries and Malaysia.
The chief of the main operational Department of the General staff of Russian armed forces, Lieutenant
General Andrey Kartupelu told that the place of hitting of Malaysian Boeing fall into the zone of
targeting of Ukrainian Buk systems.
Also SU-25 attack aircraft. was spotted next to the passenger plane.
Washington's propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing
the facts that we do have.
One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile
system or the trained personnel to operate it.
Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither
does Russia. Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at
33,000 feet.
The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in
the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.
Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner,
neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists
who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not
keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.
One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake
made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon's use. The general said that although Ukraine
has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine
separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.
This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington's propaganda.
The problem with the general's explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft
missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory. The separatists have no aircraft.
It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is of no military
use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.
As Washington, Kiev, and the presstitute media are committed to the propaganda that Putin did
it, we are not going to get any reliable information from the US media. We will have to
figure it out for ourselves.
One way to begin is to ask: Why was the missile system where it was? Why risk an expensive missile
system by deploying it in a conflict environment in which it is of no use? Incompetence is one answer,
and another is that the missile system did have an intended use.
What intended use? News reports and circumstantial evidence provide two answers. One is that
the ultra-nationalist extremists intended to bring down Putin's presidential airliner and confused
the Malaysian airliner with the Russian airliner.
The Interfax news agency citing anonymous sources, apparently air traffic controllers, reported
that the Malaysian airliner and Putin's airliner were traveling almost the identical route within
a few minutes of one another. Interfax quotes its source: "I can say that Putin's plane and the
Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on
330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time
and the Malaysian aircraft at 15:44 Moscow time. The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear
dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost
identical."
I have not seen an official Russian denial, but according to news reports, the Russian government
in response to the Interfax news report said that Putin's presidential plane no longer flies the
Ukraine route since the outbreak of hostilities.
Before we take the denial at face value, we need to be aware that the implication that Ukraine
attempted to assassinate the president of Russia implies war, which Russia wants to avoid. It also
implies Washington's complicity as it is highly unlikely that Washington's puppet in Kiev would
risk such a dangerous act without Washington's backing. The Russian government, being intelligent
and rational, would obviously deny reports of an attempted assassination of the Russian president
by Washington and its Kiev puppet. Otherwise, Russia has to do something about it, and that means
war.
The second explanation is that the extremists who operate outside the official Ukrainian military,
hatched a plot to down an airliner in order to cast the blame on Russia. If such a plot occurred,
it likely originated with the CIA or some operative arm of Washington and was intended to force
the EU to cease resisting Washington's sanctions against Russia and to break off Europe's valuable
economic relationships with Russia. Washington is frustrated that its sanctions are unilateral,
unsupported by its NATO puppets or any other countries in the world except possibly the lap-dog
British PM.
There is considerable circumstantial evidence in support of this second explanation. There is
the youtube video which purports to be a conversation between a Russian general and separatists
who are discussing having mistakenly brought down a civilian airliner. According to reports, expert
examination of the code in the video reveal that it was made the day before the airliner was
hit.
Another problem with the video is that whereas we could say that separatists conceivably could
confuse an airliner at 33,000 feet with a military attack plane, the Russian military would not.
The only conclusion is that by involving the Russian military, the video doubly discredited itself.
The circumstantial evidence easiest for non-technical people to understand is the on cue
news programs organized to put the blame on Russia prior to the knowledge of any facts.
In my previous article
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/17/sanctions-airliners-paul-craig-roberts/ I reported
on the BBC news report which I heard and which was obviously primed to place all blame on Russia.
The program ended with a BBC correspondent breathlessly reporting that he has just seen the youtube
video and that the video is the smoking gun that proved Russia did it. There is no longer any doubt,
he said. Somehow the information got on a video and on youtube before it reached the Ukrainian government
or Washington.
The evidence that Putin did it is a video made prior to the attack on the airliner. The entire
BBC report aired over National Public Radio was orchestrated for the sole purpose of establishing
prior to any evidence that Russia was responsible.
Indeed the entire Western media spoke as one: Russia did it. And the presstitutes are still speaking
the same way.
Possibly, this uniform opinion merely reflects the pavlovian training of the Western media to
automatically line up with Washington. No media source wants to be subject to criticism for being
unamerican or to find itself isolated by majority opinion, which carries the day, and earn black
marks for being wrong. As a former journalist for, and contributor to, America's most important
news publications, I know how this works.
On the other hand, if we discount the pavlovian conditioning, the only conclusion is that the
entire news cycle pertaining to the downing of the Malaysian airliner is orchestrated in order to
lay the blame on Putin.
Romesh Ratnesar, deputy editor of Bloomberg Businessweek, provides convincing evidence for orchestration
in his own remarks of July 17.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/the-malaysia-airlines-shootdown-spells-disaster-for-putin?campaign_id=DN071814
Ratnesar's opinion title is: "The Malaysia Airlines Shootdown Spells Disaster for Putin." Ratnesar
does not mean that Putin is being framed-up. He means that prior to Putin having the Malaysian airliner
shot down, "to the vast majority of Americans, Russia's meddling in Ukraine has largely seemed of
peripheral importance to U.S. interests. That calculus has changed. . . . It may take months, even
years, but Putin's recklessness is bound to catch up to him. When it does, the downing of MH 17
may be seen as the beginning of his undoing."
As a former Wall Street Journal editor, anyone who handed me a piece of shit like Ratnesar published
would have been fired. Look at the insinuations when there is no evidence to support them. Look
at the lie that Washington's coup is "Russia's meddling in Ukraine." What we are witnessing is the
total corruption of Western journalism by Washington's imperial agenda. Journalists have to get
on board with the lies or get run over.
Look around for still honest journalists. Who are they? Glenn Greenwald, who is under constant
attack by his fellow journalists, all of whom are whores. Who else can you think of? Julian Assange,
locked away in the Ecuadoran Embassy in London on Washington's orders. The British puppet government
won't permit free transit to Assange to take up his asylum in Ecuador. The last country that did
this was the Soviet Union, which required its Hungarian puppet to keep Cardinal Mindszenty interred
in the US Embassy in Budapest for 15 years from 1956 until 1971. Mindszenty was granted political
asylum by the United States, but Hungary, on Soviet orders, would not honor his asylum, just as
Washington's British puppet, on Washington's orders, will not honor Assange's asylum.
If we are honest and have the strength to face reality, we will realize that the Soviet Union
did not collapse. It simply moved, along with Mao and Pol Pot, to Washington and London.
The flaw in Putin's diplomacy is that Putin's diplomacy relies on good will and on truth prevailing.
However, the West has no good will, and Washington is not interested in truth prevailing but
in Washington prevailing. What Putin confronts is not reasonable "partners," but a propaganda
ministry aimed at him.
I understand Putin's strategy, which contrasts Russian reasonableness with Washington's threats,
but it is a risky bet. Europe has long been a part of Washington, and there are no Europeans in
power who have the vision needed to separate Europe from Washington. Moreover, European leaders
are paid large sums of money to serve Washington. One year out of office and Tony Blair was worth
$50 million dollars.
After the disasters that Europeans have experienced, it is unlikely that European leaders think
of anything other than a comfortable existence for themselves. That existence is best obtained by
serving Washington. As the successful extortion of Greece by banks proves, European people are powerless.
Washington's propaganda assault against Russia is a double tragedy, because it has diverted attention
from Israel's latest atrocity against the Palestinians locked up in the Gaza Ghetto. Israel claims
that its air attack and invasion of Gaza is merely Israel's attempt to find and close the alleged
tunnels through which Palestinian terrorists pour into Israel inflicting carnage. Of course there
are no tunnels and no terrorist carnage in Israel.
One might think that at least one journalist somewhere in the American media would ask why bombing
hospitals and civilian housing closes underground tunnels into Israel. But that is too much to ask
of the whores that comprise the US media.
Expect even less from the US Congress. Both the House and Senate have passed resolutions supporting
Israel's slaughter of Palestinians. Two Republicans–the despicable Lindsey Graham and the disappointing
Rand Paul–and two democrats–Bob Menendez and Ben Cardin–sponsored the Senate resolution backing
Israel's premeditated murder of Palestinian women and children. The resolution passed the "exceptional
and indispensable" people's Senate unanimously.
As a reward for its policy of genocide, the Obama regime is immediately transferring $429 million
of US taxpayers' money to Israel to pay for the slaughter.
Contrast the US government's support for Israel's war crimes with the propaganda onslaught against
Russia based on lies. We are living all over again "Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction,"
"Assad's use of chemical weapons," "Iranian nukes."
Washington has lied for so long that it can't do anything else.
With the rabbit hole of conspiracies getting deeper by the hour, video has emerged showing
what appears to be the "black box" flight data recorder from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 being
taken from the crash scene. As
NBC reports, the men in the video are wearing Ukrainian Emergency Ministry uniforms, but a senior
Ukrainian official told a news conference Sunday that rebels had taken the black boxes. This fits
with reports from The Hill that pro-Russian separatists have located the black boxes for
the downed Malaysia Airlines passenger jet and will hand them over to international authorities,
according to separatist
leader Alexander Borodai. With the US having offered more "proof" that Russia was involved,
perhaps some facts from the Black Box will help clarify details in this dreadful situation... though
we are not confident.
The Obama administration is intensifying its propaganda campaign against Russia and pro-Russian
separatists over the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Even as it is clear that the
US does not know how MH17 crashed or what role Russia played in the tragedy, top administration
officials are using the crisis to issue repeated ultimatums against the Russian government.
US Secretary of State John Kerry made multiple television appearances Sunday, issuing bellicose
statements and threats. The shooting down of the airline was a "moment of truth" for Russian President
Vladimir Putin, he told Fox News.
Kerry provided the US "case" that Russia gave the east Ukrainian forces weapons that could have
been used to shoot down MH17.
"There was a convoy several weeks ago, about 150 vehicles with armored personnel carriers,
multiple rocket launchers, tanks, artillery, all of which crossed over from Russia into the
eastern part of Ukraine and was turned over to the separatists," Kerry told CNN. "So there's
an enormous amount of evidence, even more evidence than I just documented, that points to the
involvement of Russia in providing these systems, training the people on them."
Even if Kerry's claims were true and Russia had provided weapons capable of shooting down MH17,
this would not prove that the east Ukrainian forces in fact shot down the plane. Citing Mark Galeotti
of New York University's Center for Global Affairs, CNN said that the "evidence is largely circumstantial.
NATO's images did not show the tanks actually crossing into Ukraine."
Asked on CNN whether Russia was "culpable" in the MH17 crash, Kerry refused to answer. "You know,
culpability is a judicial term, and people can make their own judgments about what they read here.
That's why we've asked for a full-fledged investigation," he said.
The recklessness of Kerry's statements is staggering. The United States' top diplomat
is insinuating that Russia might have helped shoot down MH17, while issuing threats that could lead
to international sanctions against Russia and an escalation of the civil war in Ukraine into a global
war. As he advances these charges, however, he admits that the administration does not actually
know what happened.
In reality, for the Obama administration, matters of fact-what actually happened and who
shot down MH17, provided it was shot down-are beside the point. The event was seized on to press
longstanding political aims. Washington continued to exploit the issue yesterday to pressure Russia
and the United States' imperialist allies in Europe to fall in line with US foreign policy.
Speaking on CNN, US Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Dianne Feinstein (Democrat of California)
demanded that Putin "man up" and confess to shooting down MH17. She said, "I think the nexus between
Russia and the separatists have been established very clearly. So the issue is, where is Putin?
I would say, 'Putin, you have to man up. You should talk to the world. You should say if this was
a mistake, which I hope it was, say it.'"
Feinstein also called on the European Union to impose deep economic sanctions against Russia:
"I think Europe has to come together. I think Germany, in particular, has to lead. I think we have
to continue with sanctions. It's difficult, because you need Russian help in so many things."
For their part, Britain, Germany and France announced on Sunday that they would prepare to increase
sanctions against Russia over the plane crash at a European foreign ministers meeting Tuesday.
British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond on Sunday said Russia "risks becoming a pariah state
if it does not behave properly."
Alluding to divisions within Europe over policy toward Russia-particularly, reluctance from sections
of the German political establishment to follow in lockstep behind the US-Hammond said, "Some of
our European allies have been less enthusiastic, and I hope that the shock of this incident will
see them now more engaged, more willing to take the actions which are necessary to bring home to
the Russians that when you do this kind of thing it has consequences."
While it presses its propaganda campaign against Russia, the US appears to be hedging its bets
about what actually happened. In comments Friday in which he denounced Russia, Obama himself made
a peculiar reference to a lot of "misinformation" on the MH17 crash, saying that it was necessary
for people to "sift through what is factually based and what is simply speculation."
US claims that Russia is politically responsible for the crash of MH17 are a cynical fraud.
Whether the plane was brought down by a missile fired by Ukrainian or Russian-backed forces,
the central responsibility for this tragedy lies with Washington, Berlin and their European allies.
The civil war raging in east Ukraine, in which one or another side shot down the jetliner, was provoked
by their support for the installation of a far-right, pro-Western Ukrainian regime through the fascist-led
putsch of February 22 in Kiev.
Since then, CIA officials, mercenaries from the firm previously known as Blackwater, and European
intelligence operatives have worked closely with Ukrainian fascist militias, such as Right Sector
or the Azov Battalion, to attack and terrorize east Ukrainian cities. It is unclear how much the
White House, which has already claimed that the CIA spied on German officials and intelligence agencies
without telling Obama, knows about these activities.
Under these conditions, it is impossible to place confidence in any statement coming from the
Obama administration about the MH17 crash. While pro-Russian forces might have shot it down, it
is also possible that Ukrainian army forces or fascist militias, working with Western intelligence
units or mercenary groups, shot down the plane and blamed it on pro-Russian forces.
Significantly, what reports have emerged about missile batteries active in the region at the
time of the MH17 crash point to involvement not by Russia, but by the US-backed regime in Kiev.
US intelligence has claimed that US spy satellites over Ukraine detected an SA-11 Buk missile
battery firing a missile shortly before MH17 crashed. Both Russian and Ukrainian army units field
Buk missile batteries, which were originally designed in the Soviet Union. The Kiev regime subsequently
released a video clip of a Buk missile battery, which it said was being rushed towards the Russian
border after the attack, ostensibly in order to escape detection after shooting down MH17.
According to Russian television coverage reported by NBC News, however, the serial number on
the missile launcher in question-312-showed that it is in fact operated by the Ukrainian army.
Finally! The Russian military has decided to speak out about some of what it knows about what happened
to MH17. It was a typical Russian event: the interpreters were nothing short of *terrible* (I speak
as a former military interpreter myself), the visual aids were badly designed (the shape of a SU-24
bomber was used to represent a totally different SU-25 close air support aircraft), and there was
no Q&A. See for yourself:
Still, a few very interesting things came out of this press conference.
First, the Ukies have been caught lying about their military aircraft in the area of
the disaster. They had claimed that no UAF aircraft were in the area. The Russians have
shown the recorded radar tracks which reveal the following: there was what appears to have been
a military aircraft (with no transponder) flying below 5000m which suddenly began climbing just
before MH17 was hit by some kind of missile. This unidentified aircraft then stayed and
observed as MH17 fell to the ground. The Russians added that a SU-25 armed with a R-60
air to air missile could have shot down MH17. Maybe. But what is certain is that the civilian
radars did detected this strange Ukie aircraft.
Now, these radar tracks are from *civilian*
radars. The Russians apparently are not willing to share the data from their military radars.
This is why this mysterious Ukie aircraft 'appears' at 5'000m altitude and then 'disappears'
again, but you can be certain that their military radars, especially on their A-50 AWACs did
track that aircraft before and after its strange maneuver. Again, I think that the Russians
hope that the experts will come to the correct conclusions on the basis of what they have shown
today and that they will not have to reveal more. But we can be certain that they have the full
picture and that they know exactly what happened.
Second, the Russians are challenging their American colleagues to show the images they
claim show the launch of the BukM1 rocket. They also point out at the interesting coincidence
that an US experimental launch detection satellite was exactly over the area at the moment of
the tragedy. Clearly, they are tossing the world experts some kind of lead here, but I am not
sure what this is.
Third, the Russians have shown their own space-based imagery which shows that one battery
of BukM1 had been moved just prior to the incident (See for yourself
here).
It will be interesting to see if the Ukies explain what is shown on these picture and, if yes,
how?
As a public information this conference gets a C+ but as a lead for experts I would give it a
much higher A-. We know have hard proof that the Ukies lied at least twice. They lied about
the footage of the Buk missiles being moved back to Russia (the footage was taken in Ukie-occupied
territory) and they most definitely lied when they denied having any military aircraft in the area
when in reality they had one in the immediate proximity of MH17. That is a huge lie which
the Ukies will have a very hard time dismissing.
As I said in my first post about MH17, I have no hope whatsoever that the western plutocracy
will ever admit that the junta did it. Ditto for the corporate presstitues of the MSM, but
I do hope that the world will see this tragedy for what is clearly was: a deliberate false flag
on the part of the Nazi junta in Kiev. As David Chandler correctly points out about 9/11, the proof
of a cover up is in itself already a proof of a conspiracy.
Ukraine hasn't said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian
Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment')
to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers
is that:
RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17
Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would
deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.
The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:
Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened
to flight MH17 (with English translation).
Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:
RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN
SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE
MINISTRY - interfax
The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group
of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of
the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.
"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up
to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these
missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.
Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the
same question we asked last Thurday:
RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK
And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine
fighter jets near MH17:
Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.
"A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it's distance from
the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km," said the head of the Main Operations Directorate
of the HQ of Russia's military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media
conference in Moscow on Monday.
"[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along
a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,"
he stated.
"The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification," he
added. "It's equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to
12km, up to 5km for sure."
The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by
the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.
And asks for US proof of their accusations:
RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which
would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained
this or shown it?
RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS
IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"
And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving
in Russian hands.
Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something
the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of
the Ukrainian army's self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air 'Buk' missile systems, the Russian
general said.
"We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine's air defense was located in the
southeast of the country," Kartapolov noted.
The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile
launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to
the military official.
Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.
Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14,
2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk
Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained.
In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles,
tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.
Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo
courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of
Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
"Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher
is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the
same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk,"
the Kartapolov said.
No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo
courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north
of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry
Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk,
on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe,
50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the
Russian Defense Ministry
The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled
by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.
The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster
Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.
In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense
of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.
1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of
the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?
2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most
importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?
3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international
commission? When such a committee will work?
4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting
for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?
5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft
on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?
6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft
to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?
7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially
because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?
8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of
the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of
Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?
9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with
recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?
10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in
the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the
Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official
Kiev.
Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect
that there will be some answers.
* * *
Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in
an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead
of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.
We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box
are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control
recording with the doomed flight.
This vicious, well coordinated propaganda campaign by Western MSM suggest existence of a comprehensive
plan and, possible, points that MH17 tragedy was preplanned provocation.
First the separatists are demonized because the "bodies are bloating in the sun", then for
putting them in a refrigerated train. I've seen newscasts bemoaning the fact that parts of the
aircraft are still lying around, and others bemoaning parts being shifted. This is a great example
how, once the victim is demonized, literally anything they do will be used to provoke what the
BBC newsreader this morning called "international fury". The BBC itself is provoking the international
fury, not sure how many people are buying it. I suppose this is all a chess game, they think
they've got Putin cornered.
Then he should ask his allies in Kiev to stop bombing those in the east, surely? Basic propaganda
101 from the US.
Putin wants to give them access, get your pals in Kiev to start the bombing again to make
access impossible (or at the very least unsafe) then 'demand' Putin allows access. Its the never
ending cycle, why can't people see through this ..
First of all once more, my sincere condolences to those who have lost loved ones, I know
that I cannot even begin to comprehend your feelings, my thoughts are with you!
There is something that is just not hanging true about this entire episode, the world is
stunned, the Ukranians are pointing the finger, they have concrete proof, they have pictures
of the missile trajectory rhetoric rhetoric, etc etc, but, we have seen nothing?
Russia has been completely taken aback, Vlad Putin did make a statement immediately afterwards
but it failed to be reported, as much as, the scathing Ukranian reports, Mr Kerry's comments
and Mr Cameron trying without much luck to speak to V Putin. Although the Dutch PM and others
did speak. Maybe the puppet was just too much, he knew what would be said anyway, predictable
as..........!
All the time we were told Russia, Russia, but when you see what the local miners have done,
how locals are bringing passports etc to reporters it is obvious that there is no coordination,
just complete shock and obvious humanity, then, you hear how Ukraine is awaiting the bodies,
the good guys.....after the bad guys have found refrigerated trains and done the difficult work......the
supposed bad guys could "possibly" have had the missiles, which possibly shot the airliner down
from 35,000 feet. The Ukranians however do have many such missiles and launchers and they are
in the area, apparently, but the bad guys have nothing to shoot down? We have to be absolutely
sure here just what went on?
The answer to all this, without any proof at all, is to place more and more embargoes
and restrictions on Russia,, I cannot believe the prejudiced rhetoric aimed at Russia without
proof of their intentional implied involvement, which let's face it would be ridiculous.......!
You know, if these Ukranians, were the good guys, they would be facilitating the movement
of the bodies and the trains, by having a truce, a cease fire but no, the very very vocal pointing
finger "good guys" are sending tanks in!
The question which must be answered, which always leads to the truth, is this. " Who Gain's?"
Wonderful, wonderful comment. That comment contains more truth and fact towards the real
truth than pretty much all of the media US/UK/Australian media circus and heads of state are
presenting us with.
The Russian evidence put forward is compelling, the American evidence is non existent.
Russia have proven that Ukrainian BUK systems were in the area at the time and American evidence
of Rebel BUK systems is non existent.
What the hell was the Ukrainian jet ,flying less than 5 kilometres from the stricken airliner,at
the same height and at the exact time, doing?
Why were Ukrainian BUK systems even in the region when the rebels don't have aircraft??
This is looking bad for Ukrainian officials,the Guardian has dug a hole so deep they will
never crawl out again and Obama is the emperor with no clothes.
Am I the only one that really really hates these annoying 'Kiev did it' posts. This crash
is a tragedy for all.
But to try to spin it into something it is not because the facts don't fit your view, well
thats just disgusting.
The facts tell us that by far the most likely explanation is that the pro-russian seperatists,
who have been (succesfully) shooting at Ukrainian military aircraft for some time, in a moment
of utter idiocy and incompetence shot down a civilian airliner who happened to be flying over.
There is no other explanation. The rebels don't have aircraft so why would the Ukrainians
shoot down an aircraft.
No military or political hierarchy would approve of some kind of 'lets frame the rebels strategy',
nobody would butcher 300 people. The risks of someone clapping out of school are just too high.
In time (maybe years) the rebels involved will come out. When that happens I hope a lot of
Russian trolls here go silent in shame I hope.
This has been the course of action within minutes of this tragedy unfolding. There is something
intrinsically wrong in the direction of and who it is coming from and where it is trying to
steer peoples minds.
I am not having it until the facts are out and that may take some considerable time.
This has just become a warmongering politicised mess trying to grab the hearts and minds
of people against an "evil" state.
We know who the evil state is and see and hear its whirring political cogs spinning round.
What has this got to do with Barak Obama and America, these comments from him have only to
do with progressing American hegemony and its come from the deep seated belief of its own over
inflated sense of self worth.
Barak Obama is just another warmongering US war criminal president who kills innocent civilians
abroad in order to progress its plans of world domination. Those killed in the process are known
as collateral damage.
You are probably typing this on your i-pad, sipping from your Starbucks latte machiatto.
Products of a culture of democracy, accountability and freedom.
I'll have warmongering US warcriminal presidents every day above people that have no accountability
like Putin and his corrupt ex-Soviet cronies.
the dignity of the victims must be stressed of course... of any victims from rich western
countries that is.
the thousands of victims of the last few weeks among the civilian population of east.ukr
and the 100k+ refuges fleeing the region are instead a fair prize to pay for the pacification
of the region for western investors and understandably these victims get almost no mention in
the press of elizabeth-arden capitals...
I dunno about Dronobama but Willie Wanka says the World has never been united as today. This
puppet and another PM the Gestapo know very well how to cry and make a drama.
A change in what's being said if not in tone - Obama and Cameron now calling for the same
as what Putin was from the beginning - a transparent and fair investigation.
But then going on to to criticize the poor people on the ground who, in the middle of an
on going war, have spent the last four days moving bodies into cold storage (despicable doesn't
cover it), and nothing on Kiev forces shelling Donetsk train station and the watch tower at
Donetsk airport just as things were getting moving - another Nobel laureate intent on leading
the world to war.
Harriet Salem, journalist in Donetsk
tweets: At #MH17 crash site Dutch forensic expert "impressed" with recovery operation &
workers given the size, weather & circumstances #Ukraine
Maybe if Obama had read Harriet's tweet he'd have been a bit less cavalier in insulting the
heroes involved in the recovery operation.
The more I think about what he said the more it's making my piss boil - imaging some world
leader saying 9/11 first responders had corrupted evidence and treated the victims disrespectfully
- their capital would have been obliterated within days.
Fucking sick of leaders - I used to think they were mostly fools, now I think they are
mostly psychopathic - time to get rid of the lot of them before they blow us all to hell.
Obama is going to have to produce those satellite images from the monitoring US satellite,
as well as the missile monitoring satellite. The Russians say they US has. The Russians have
produced theirs.
This is starting to look like most of us have suspected from the beginning ,(yet again).
They should let those investigators in, but make it clear that as long as Kiev does not keep
its army away, separatists will react accordingly. I.e. that they can't ensure the safety of
the investigators.
Kiev seems to be the main obstacle to an investigation. Obama is either not in the know
or simply lying, again.
Obama - in possession of the best intel in the world - apparently does not know there already
are inspectors at the site, even though the fact has been on regular news feeds for the past
five hours?
He also doesn't know the Ukraine army is shelling Donetsk station and preventing the train
full of bodies being removed as planned?
So shaming to see the POTUS go out there and deliver a rambling, shambling excuse for a speech
full of nothing but innuendo and lies.
And where the hell is the "proof" the US claimed to have on Friday? Come on, people don't
let this turn into another Syria debacle. Our international standing just will not survive a
repeat of that
You think that is bad, the Australian PM and FM are taking the matter to the UN security
council to pass a resolution to demand full unimpeded access to the site.
And the Foreign Minister stated "This is not a time to use bodies as hostages or pawns"
So between the three of them i am not sure who has dibs on stupid behind the eight ball crown,
but whatever it is these politicians are smoking...i would like some
"They're removing bodies from the crash site, often times without the care that we would
expect … [and rebels' behavior toward the crash site is] an insult to those who've lost
loved ones."
Speech from Dutch head of expert team in crash site:
"I'm very impressed about the work that was done over here," "I think they did a hell
of a job in a hell of a place."
Russia: Has images of Ukraine deploying BUK Rockets in east.
Russia: Ukraine moved BUK near rebels in Donetsk.
Russia detected Ukrainian fighter jet pick up speed toward MH17
I hope Obama is not going to capitalize on the deaths of passengers on MH 17 in his crusade
against the Russians. I would also think that the Kiev government is not immune to investigation.
Why have their fighter jets cameras not been checked? Why did the air traffic controllers in
Kiev divert this plane. Could they have been under orders from Kiev to divert it to this area
in Donetsk, where the Ukrainian army does have BUK missiles, and ordered it shot down so they
could fan the flames against Russia and the East Ukrainian fighters? This would be a typical
Nazi trick and considering their total lack of respect for human life after the Odessa burning
of innocent people and the constant shelling and the deaths of innocent civilians in East Ukraine.
This is one scenario I would not overlook. These men in Kiev are desperate, and that can bring
about very interesting results. I myself would like to see a proper investigation into this
crash that includes the Kiev government, that everyone seems to think can do no wrong. Still,
it is too early to tell what really happened, I also agree with Putin that this crash should
not be used for political gain, and that a proper investigation should be done by international
experts to determine who, if anyone, shot this plane down.
Every time the prime minister of Ukraine holds a conference to rant against "the bastard"
Russians and invent tales I get a chilling feeling we are looking at a mass murderer
If I were the guardian editor. I would start being a bit more impartial in the reporting
and apportioning blame on this terrible atrocity round about now. Obama will let Kiev take all
the flak if they really are banged to rights. Going overboard with the US narrative might bite
you on the posterior, if the Russians have compelling evidence to the contrary. At the very
least, at the end off this you could end up looking a bit silly.
The "fighter" jet line doesn't seem to hold much water. A quick google will tell you an SU25
is a ground attack aircraft incapable of intercepting an airliner. It's altitude ceiling is
too low and at its maximum speed would barely be able to catch up with a 777 at cruising speed.
If the Ukrainians really did want to shoot down a passenger jet they would have used an aircraft
better suited to the job.
So no mention by the Guardian on today's press conference by the Russian Defence Ministry
showing Ukraine lied about t ssia', that Ukraine moved Buks into the area of the MH17 crash
shortly before, and that Ukraine lied when it said there were no Ukrainian military aircraft
tailing the MH17 before the crash and staying around afterwards until the plane hit the ground?
My, my.....Where is our Western media when you need them? Guess I will have to go back to
RT and ZeroHedge for my updates.
The Russians have come out in the last few hours saying that they were tracking a Ukranian
SU-25 fighter jet climbing up towards MH17.
The Ukranians have claimed they had no aircraft in the air that day, so if this proves to
be true it would go a long way to support the Ukranians shooting it down themselves, not the
rebels. Why would they lie about having a fighter in the air? Russians have also confirmed a
US spy satellite was overhead at the time of the incident and have called on the US to release
the photos and data. Why would they do that if they were lying, also?
It now seems painfully apparent that Kiev thought shooting down the plane would compell NATO
to intervene on their behalf. They were very vocal about that immediately after the crash, but
it didn't happen. With each passing day they (Kiev) have grown more frustrated. Meanwhile, Washington
is frustrated in its effort to throw all blame onto Russia for the civil war in Ukraine (which
is the result of the US-inspired coup, after all).
Circumstantially, the hand of Ukrainian forces looks most likely here. They are acting
least rational / most bellicose.
Those believing Ukraine's Government not capable of shooting MH17 down themselves in order
to blame it on east Ukraine sepratists really need their head examined.
He started with "We support Israel" just as a hospital was shelled in Gaza.
But it got worse. He said something like "rebels preventing access to investigators for days".
First, the investigators only arrived today, and second, MSM has been reporting and quoting
the investigators going around the crash site and conducting their investigation for at least
a couple of hours now.
It gets even worse. Obama claimed that the rebels are not allowing the bodies to be released.
The rebels have asked the investigators to oversee the transportation of the bodies hours ago
and the investigators have agreed. The journalists on the ground have been reporting a Kiev
offensive targeting the areas around the railway tracks, that is what is preventing the trains
from leaving.
Who is briefing him, Monica Lewinski? How is it that we are more informed of the situation
from simply reading this live blog than the president of the US is with his NSA and CIA?
Poroshenko actually had the brass neck to say: "The Ukrainian people were never so united
as today".
Maybe he hasn't noticed that his Ukrainian armed forces are using combat aircraft and artillery
against Ukrainian people. Iraq is about as united as Ukraine at the moment.
The leaders of this Ukrainian regime seem to live in some bizarre parallel universe.
News. Press-conference of the Russian Defense Ministry: maps, charts, data. Note: pictures
Ukrainian military aircraft. There is an English translation.
The Russion defense miliatry appear to have the first pieces of solid evidence. I'll be interesting
to see how the 'non-putinbots' dismatle it ... presumably not with logic.
Why is not on the headlines that Russia is asking for an explanation for the presence of
an Ukrainian fighter jets flying close to the Malaysian airplane and the satellite pictures
showing that there were Ukrainian missiles positioned near this area?
Does anyone know what John Pilger has to say about this atrocity perpetrated by those peace-loving
rebels of the DPR, under the triumvirate of Gubarev, Strelkov and Borodai??
Say what you like about the Yanks, but at least they admitted to shooting down the Iranian
airliner back in 1988, and paid out compensation to the families...although admittedly no American
was ever brought to justice for that war crime...
I also have a deja vu feeling about the disinformation that came out, claiming the transponders
etc were not working, islands being removed from maps at press briefings showing they were in
international waters etc.
As someone once said, you can fool some of the people all the time, but nobody ever knows
they are the fool in quesiton.
One would have thought the Guardian would have changed its headline given the evidence emerging
regarding a 2cd plane, I am sure Russia has even more to follow and is allowing both Kiev and
Washington to dig themselves into a very very deep hole.
Shame on the Guardian for not reporting this in the same vein as it reports hearsay,
unverified, uncorroborated "evidence".
And why was the plane diverted by 300 km and ordered to fly lower? They are fairly easy questions
but none of the media are asking and there certainly aren't any answers. It's a crucial area
of investigation and it doesn't need presence at the. Rash site; just to explain
According to the DM this plane was instructed to divert off path, previous Malaysian flights
used a different route? But as tragic as it is, in Gaza now over 500 dead incl many kids, we
can't bring back lost lives but we can prevent future deaths so why is Obama and Cameron not
condemning the continuous bombing in Gaza?
I'm pointing out the double standards applying. Also that human lives are equal, whether
Europeans or Palestinians or whatever races. And that backing those who take the lives of innocents
is wrong, and that is whether unknowingly and by accident as with Mh17 (which even people who
reckon rebels shot down the flight, believe happened) or as in Gaza, where it was always obvious
civilians deaths would occur.
As usual Russia, in particular Putin, is guilty until proven innocent.
The latter won't be permitted because the US and the Ukrainian nazis will control proceedings,
and the lightweight idiots posing as EU top dogs will cheer from the sidelines.
Putin is showing extraordinary restraint and patience having to deal with a vigorous stream
of lies.
If you only listened to the BBC and CNN and other Western media, they would have you believe
that the only possible explanation of the shooting-down of MH-17 all comes down to Russia being
guilty.
After all, the BUK missiles are Russian-made. These missiles require technical expertise
which the Russians have. The pro-Russia rebels previously shot down aircraft in the same area.
And all of this is conclusive even before any serious investigation of the site has even been
started!
1) Assertion 1 – the missile is Russian-made, and so the Russians must have provided it
to the Rebels. The Ukraine military has 60 BUK systems, of which 3 were in the crash zone
last week. Moreover, several Ukrainian military bases lost equipment to the rebels during the
past few months of military conflict. So just because Russia makes some equipment does not mean
that it directly supplied the rebels.
2) Assertion 2 – the BUK missile system requires technical expertise to operate it, and
so the Russians must have provided it to the Rebels. Since Ukraine/Soviet military has been
using the BUK system 1972, they clearly have the competence to use this equipment. So the Ukrainian
military have both the equipment and the training to operate the BUK system. Some of the Ukrainian
military in Eastern Ukraine defected to join the pro-Russia rebels. So it is not unreasonable
to expect that some of the relevant expertise (to operate the BUK system) came to the rebels
when those military personnel defected.
3) Assertion 3 – the pro-Russia rebels have previously shot down aircraft in the area,
so obviously it must have been them again. When the rebels shot down aircraft before, these
were planes and helicopters used by the Ukrainian military. They were flying at 6,000 feet or
less (unlike the 32,000 feet of MH-17) and therefore were accessible by less sophisticated surface-to-air
missile systems. On the other hand, the Ukraine military shot down a Russian passenger jet carrying
78 civilians with a Russian-made SA-200 missile system in 2001. They initially denied it, until
after 8 days they were presented with irrefutable proof, at which time they confessed to their
"mistake".
4) Motive and who would benefit from this action. If Ukrainian military performed
this heinous act, then Ukraine would have a lot to gain. Firstly, they would glee in Russia's
pain – in fact, they are already enjoying the fact that Russia is incurring the threat of more
sanctions and bad press. Secondly, they could provoke NATO and other foreign troops to come
in to protect the crash site in rebel-controlled areas. Thirdly, and their highest priority,
the combination of the first two points would increase the chances of the Ukrainian military
to defeat the pro-Russia rebels, once and for all, after several months of trying.
5) Recorded telephone and twitter conversations proving the involvement of the pro-Russia
rebels. I saw on two non-Western TV channels how speech experts had analysed the audio from
the alleged phone discussions to identify fragments of the audio had been originally recorded
prior to last Thursday when the tragedy happened. In other words, the alleged phone discussion
was nothing more than re-configured audio fragments to result in a fabricated phone recording.
6) The involvement of Russians fighting with the pro-Russia rebels does not equate to
the involvement of the Russian state. The fact that Russians support their "brethren" in
Eastern Ukraine does not automatically mean that the Russian state is involved. This would be
like saying that Britain has boots-on-the-ground in Syria, just because nearly 1000 Britons
have gone over there to join the fight. These are merely British individuals who have gone over
there in a personal capacity, similar to the British and French ex-military mercenaries who
can be found fighting in conflicts all over Africa. They are there in their personal capacities
without the consent of their state.
Conclusion
Unlike Western media and politicians, I cannot draw a conclusion regarding who perpetrated
this terrible act. In my view, it is premature, too hasty and disrespectful to any system of
justice to jump to such conclusions, accusations and talk of sanctions before any investigation
has even begun. What I am highlighting in the above 6 points is that questions still need to
be asked.
Ukraine officials today. We are not shelling the train station in Donetsk.
CNN reporter on site in Donetsk today. Ukrainian forces are shelling the train station
in Donetsk.
Yes, we really believe the Kiev government. They always present the truth, whether it's is
about those in Odessa setting fire to themselves or rebel forces bombing their own cities. They
must be since the ministry states that Ukraine never has planes in the air when the bombing
occurs.
So exactly what is three benefit to the eastern guys to be hiding bodies? Just getting some
blame in early to make the official enemy clear? By the way this is a war zone...
You can add this to the list of conspiracy theories that turned out to be facts
[Jul 21, 2014] Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko denies a claim by Russia's defense ministry
that a Ukrainian warplane flew near MH17 at the time of the crash
Poor Peter Poroshenko...
Poroshenko tells CNN that "this is not true", that the area was being surveilled at the time,
and that his government would be open to any investigation on the issue. "Everybody knows that in
this period of time … all Ukrainian planes were on the ground [near Grabovo, where the plane crashed.]"
Russia's defense ministry held a briefing earlier Monday in which it made several claims and
suggested they could possibly explain how and why MH17 was shot down. First among these claims was
that a Ukrainian fighter jet, a Su-25, was in the area. Another scenario involved the passenger
plane straying from its flight plan. The air force general, Andrei Karatolov, did not directly accuse
Ukraine of shooting down MH17, and the ministry
handed journalists
slides arguing for the claims.
Ukraine fighter jet flew close to Malaysian plane before crash, says Russian Defense
Ministry #MH17pic.twitter.com/g7ktU7ZGJ3
A representative of the rebels in Donetsk confirmed to Reuters that the separatist group has
agreed to hand over the black boxes this evening.
The situation in Donetsk, through which the train of victims' bodies will pass, remains unstable.
Journalist Noah Sneider
tweets that
a "massive convoy of rebels and equipment on the road near Shakhtyorsk [is] heading away from Donetsk.
Cars, buses, tanks, APCs, maybe [about] 50 total."
Black boxes will be handed over at 9pm local time, according to Malaysia's Prime Minister
Razak.
Even though this agreement had been made with the rebels, Najib stressed that a "number of steps"
still had to be taken in order for the required work to be completed. The rebels had agreed to ensure
that "continued cooperation" between all relevant parties took place.
Even though it was clear that Malaysia was gravely upset over the way the investigation had so
far been handled, Najib said it was up to the government to promote peace and calm in order to get
things done and that he hoped these developments would a step in the right direction.
"In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that
the Malaysian people feel. And that I feel. But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of
a better outcome."
But it was the Ukrainian army that seemed intent on disrupting expert work on Monday, as they
apparently launched an offensive against rebel positions close to Donetsk railway station, as well
as in other towns across the region.
"There is work on clearing approaches to the city, on
destroying checkpoints of the terrorists. If there are explosions in the middle of the city, then
it is not Ukrainian soldiers," said Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for
Ukraine's national security
council, in Kiev.
Adding to the chaos, Lysenko denied that the Ukrainian army was responsible for explosions in
central Donetsk but said a "self-organised group" of partisans could be engaging the rebels.
"We have strict orders not to use air strikes and artillery in the city. If there is fighting
in the city, we have information that there is a small self-organised group who are fighting with
the terrorists," he said.
Vladislav Seleznev, spokesman for Ukraine's anti-terror operation, said the action was "a planned
offensive" to push rebels away from Donetsk airport, and insisted that aviation and artillery were
not being used against civilian residences.
However, there were reports of civilian casualties. The Guardian saw one 18-storey building where
a shell had hit the courtyard, smashing all the windows on the first nine floors and destroying
parked cars.
Trucks of rebels could be seen travelling past the station as reinforcements. Gunfire and artillery
rounds were audible. One rebel fighter claimed the Ukrainians had tried to take the area around
the train station with tanks but the rebels were fighting back.
The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, ordered a ceasefire across a 40km (24-mile) radius
from the crash site, but this does not include Donetsk, which is further out.
On our planet there are only two countries that once was mistakenly shot down a civilian airliner.
These countries - Ukraine and the USA.
Americans in 1988 was shot down over the Persian Gulf by Iranian A300 (killing 290 people, including
66 children). Ukrainians in 2001 was shot down over the Black sea Russian Tu-154 (killed 66 people).
Civil airliner was shot down and the USSR, but it was not in error, and consciously. Although the
incident 1983 also interesting in the context of what happened in Ukraine.
The fact that the flight MAS17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur used to fly on a different route.
14-th and 15-th he was flying through the Mykolaiv and Kherson regions. 16 he was flying just North
- through the Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporizhzhia oblasts. But on July 17, the day of the disaster,
he somehow flew moreover that in Donetsk region, but also directly through the territory of the
control of Kiev. The deviation from normal of course (I think the same courses on 14 and 15 July
and earlier) constituted about 450 km.
Somehow it up trouble like the South Korean Boeing KAL007, who also leaned on his usual route
of 500 km And relations between the USSR and the USA were approximately in the same state as it
is now. The disaster has only exacerbated the crisis, and who knows, as if he were permitted if
after six months had not died Andropov.
But human beings are learning. And if the story of a South Korean airliner provocation, apparently,
was not, why not to use it as a model for future provocations.
So, what is suspicious:
First, the dramatically changed flight plan of the aircraft.
Secondly, that fact that the same airline in March already lost a plane over the Indian
ocean, whose fate is still unknown.
Third, the apparent readiness of the Kiev authorities to such an accident.
The last point requires more detailed disclosures.
When an airliner is flying at an altitude of 10 km with the speed of 900 km/h, it is not possible
to shoot it down using Igla shoulder based anti-aircraft missile, using which the militia had shot
down helicopters with the Ukrainian military. It can shoot down only from more serious weapon. For
example, using Buk". Several countries have this system. For example, Ukraine. In 2008 Ukrainians
supplied Ukrainians "Buk" to Georgians and they shoot down Russian tactical reconnaissance aircraft
Tu-MR.
And now, about half an hour before the loss of communication with Boeing, the Secretary of the
Ukrainian national security and defense Council Andrei Lysenko declared that Donetsk militants obtained
BUK system.
In the news reel of "Ukrainian Pravda" headers are really close:
17.26 - the NSDC declares about the "Buk",
17.49 - passenger aircraft was shot down in the Donetsk region.
But the tricky detail is the militia acquired the "Buck" system not yesterday and not even the
same week. The first message that militants occupied the air defense unit And-1402 with "BUK", was
published... 29 June! Why then Strelkov's people did not hit by any plane at high altitude since
then? After all, they are there were quite a few plane bombing of Donetsk during this period!
The fact that passenger plane flied over Donetsk region all the time is the second problem. Ukrainian
aviation authorities closed the zone of military actions for flights, but only to the height of
7.9 thousand meters. If the Ukrainian authorities knew that the militia captured "BUK" system, -
why don't they did not declare this region the no-fly zone?
Another suspicious fact is that almost immediately after the appearance of the news about the
crashed plane Internet is filled with the statements of Ukrainian officials. Poroshenko declared
the disaster to be a terrorist attack. Adviser to the head of MIA of Ukraine Zoryan Shkiriak urged
NATO to launch a ground military operation in the Donetsk region. Ukrainian propaganda Twitter accounts
began to spread false statement of CNN that the Pentagon is sure that the plane was shot down by
a missile launched from the territory of Russia.
Appeared ridiculous assertion that actually wanted to shoot down the plane of President Putin,
as his plane two has at the center of the fuselage a three-color strip. Such a striped is pretty
difficult to see from the earth, you know, and the fact that the Boeing 777 has just two engines,
and Il-96 - four, is known to almost everybody, including probably some children. Not to mention
the fact that no Board № 1 has never get close to the war zone.
Instantly, pictures are started to be transmitted from the place of the crash. And some of them
were probably not genuine such as the picture of a baby (more like a doll) and a passport of one
of the passengers - a brand new, with no traces of any use. And this is even before any locals arrived
to the accident site.
And on the YouTube soon appeared a record of record of intercepted by SBU discussion of leader
of self-defense Gorlovka Igor Besler and GRU Colonel Vladimir Garanin. Butler reports to Garanin
that he shot down the plane. Journalist Ilya Barabanov called Colonel Garanin, and he was very surprised
and said that he never discussed anything with Besler.
Soon the entry was removed and posted again with a different dialogue between two people claling
themselves the Major and the Greek. The Mayor says that the plane was shot "the Cossacks on Chernukhino
stand". Leave it to SBU the invention of the new type of Cossacks who can handle the Buk anti-aircraft
system and focus on the audio file recording this conversation was created... 16 July. That is,
or it it is a question about another plane, or is it a pre-prepared information to support this
provocation.
Of course, there are questions about the other side. These questions mainly concern the mysterious
An-26, allegedly downed militias around the same time, when Boeing fell. This was written in Twitter
Igor Strelkov - and this An-26 was never found, and the message was later erased. But the thing
is that nobody knows exactly who publishes news in this Twitter account.
It is known only, that this person is not Strelkov himself.
And still it is known that on July 13, the representative of the militia Ruslan Taskaev stated
that the only captured "Buk" is non-functional (Prosecutor General of Ukraine declared that nothing
has ever captured at all). And how it is known that in the North-Western outskirts of Donetsk Ukranian
Army deployed divisions 156-th of anti-aircraft missile regiment of Armed forces of Ukraine which
include 27 launchers of the complex "Buk-M1". Well, we now know who became the scapegoat for the
shooting instread.
Further reading: http://izvestia.ru/news/574041#ixzz38269wGy3
Larry Wilkerson: Why weren't commercial flights banned over an area where aircraft had already
been shot down? - July 20, 14
WILKERSON: I don't know what the response is going to be ultimately. The response so far,
I think, has been fairly cool, calm, and calculated.
JAY: You're talking about the official response from Obama.
WILKERSON: Yes, yes. I don't count John McCain as anything other than a raving maniac
anymore. Listening to him makes me understand viscerally and deeply and profoundly what's wrong
with the U.S. Congress.
JAY: The response of Obama, though, essentially is saying this is Russia's fault. Russia,
Putin replied or responded by saying this is the Ukrainian government's fault. Essentially I don't
think from what I saw of Putin--he's not denying that it might be Russian separatists that fired
the missile, but he's saying they're in that situation of firing missiles because Ukraine, the Ukrainian
government, stepped up their campaign against the separatists. What do you make of this back-and-fourth?
WILKERSON: I think it's typical of what happens when great powers contend with one another
over a middling power or lesser power's territory. I think it's everybody's fault. It's particularly
an egregious case of lack of responsibility of the ICAO, the International Civil Aviation Organization,
who should have put out notice to airmen and other precautionary notices about flying in this area.
It's not like this is the first plane that's been shot down at some altitude. A transport was shot
down, I think, at something like 6,000 meters. That's pretty high. That means an SA-11 or even better.
So I think the first blame here goes to the organization that's supposed to keep civilian airliners
out of conflict zones like this. And then the rest of the blame, the ultimate blame, the fundamental
blame goes to all parties--the United States, Ukraine, the Russians--for not coming to some kind
of negotiated political solution to what is a cancerous problem right there in the heart of what
we used to call in the old days the continental landmass that's so important to the rest of the
world.
JAY: Now, the response from a lot of leaders around the world and a lot of the press around
the world, it's not all that far from McCain's outrage. They're not, perhaps, calling for such aggressive
measures against Russia as McCain is, but clearly if this is what they're describing as pro-Russian
separatists--I'm not even sure that's the right label for them, but at any rate, if it turns out
it is them, I don't think anyone would suggest they would deliberately target a passenger aircraft.
The American Navy, I believe it was, shot down an Iranian aircraft in 1988 that killed almost exactly
the same member number of people--298 people were killed. And that was not described in the West
as an act of terrorism, while this one is.
WILKERSON: Yes, we're probably, possibly, the biggest hypocrites on the face of the
earth. In 1988, after we'd taken Iraq's side almost wholesalely in the Persian Gulf in a very
brutal and bloody war between Iraq and Iran--a war, I might add, Iraq started, then sends an Aegis
cruiser on patrol in the Gulf, and having come under some fire, as I recall, immediately prior to
the shoot-down, had a few seconds to react [at the] combat center and reacted and shot down an Iranian
Airbus and killed--my recollection was 290 people. And that act caused Ayatollah Khomeini to, as
he said himself later, throw in the towel and agree to a ceasefire and end that brutal war, which
had, I think, gone on for about eight years at that point. So the United States wastes no opportunity
to be hypocritical.
JAY: Now, the critique of the Russians in this specifically about this event is why are
they giving such missiles to the separatists and why are they getting so involved in militarily
supporting them. What do you make of that critique?
WILKERSON: I think it's a sound critique as far as it goes. I suspect that with John McCain
ranting and raving, and others like him who are not quite as outspoken as he, that we're probably
doing similar things and are planning on doing more, just as we've done in other places around the
world.
So what we need to do, Putin, the European Union, and United States, and Ukrainians of any type,
separatist or in the East, West, Crimea, Odessa, or wherever, is stop this business of killing one
another and seek a political solution to the problem. I've said before, we need to have a neutral
Ukraine, neither aligned with Russian nor the United States nor the European Union, a Ukraine that
nonetheless is helped by all three to become more stable, politically and economically, and a Ukraine
that is not coveted by anyone.
Now, the proximity of Ukraine to Russia certainly means that its relationship with Russia
is going to be a lot closer and more intimate than it is, possibly, with others, particularly that
portion in Ukraine that is Russian. And a lot of Russian military industry is in Ukraine. You can't
tell Putin that he can't have that industry. It would take years to relocate that industry into
Russia proper. So there are all sorts of complexities here that need to be taken care of. But they
can be taken care of if people will quit fighting.
JAY: Now, you describe McCain as a madman, but to what extent does he represent a significant
opinion in the professional foreign-policy or, perhaps more so, the military-industrial complex?
He seemed to have a fair amount of support. As I say, when he ran in 2008, he was gung ho about
this contention with Russia. A lot of people want this new Cold War.
WILKERSON: I don't think a lot of people do. I think a certain number of people do. And you named
some of them--Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Grumman, and others who sell weapons and want to sell more.
McCain is--while I might call him a madman--and lately, lately John McCain looks just like that--he's--nonetheless
comes from the warp and woof of this country. He comes from the very fabric of this country. Go
back and look at the Mexican War, which Lincoln decried from the House of Representatives and the
president and others were screaming for because they wanted to extend slavery and Texas promised
to be a slave territory. Go back and look at the Spanish-American war, when the Hearst press,
the yellow press, so-called, was screaming and yelling about Spain and about the need for the United
States to do what it needed to do in Cuba and the Philippines. Go back and look at those times and
you'll find lots of John McCains around those times. That's not to excuse them or to say they're
right; that's to condemn them, in my mind, and say they're wrong. But they're there, and they're
very American in that sense.
JAY: So, Larry, how dangerous a moment is this?
WILKERSON: It's a dangerous moment, Paul. I won't equivocate on that, especially if we let the
John McCains rule our minds. Then we begin to think that we have to, say, arm the other side, as
it were, equal to what Putin's doing with the separatists.
But I think cooler heads will prevail here--I hope they will. And I hope we'll investigate
this, we'll find out who did it. Blame will be assigned accordingly. And it's an accident. I hope
then the ICAO will put out the necessary /ˈnoʊtəmz/. This is a very--I understand, very heavily
traveled route. We'll get the civilian airliners away until we've got a political solution on the
ground, and we won't have any more shot-down and innocently killed people.
It is a dangerous moment, but it's not one that can't be handled it cooler heads prevail. And
I think I've seen of late with regard to these kind of things that the White House has a pretty
cool head. I hope that is sustainable.
JAY: Alright. Thanks for joining us, Larry.
WILKERSON: Thanks for having me.
Lawrence Wilkerson is a retired United States Army soldier and former chief of staff to United
States Secretary of State Colin Powell. Wilkerson is an adjunct professor at the College of William
& Mary where he teaches courses on US national security. He also instructs a senior seminar in the
Honors Department at the George Washington University entitled "National Security Decision Making."
Yesterday the enemy cut the last main highway linking the Donetsk with Lugansk and, accordingly,
with Russia. Strong points of the enemy are now in the villages Beloye and Vesela Tarasovka.
Now ukry hastily buried in the ground several dozens of tanks and armored personnel carriers,
in order to exclude the possibility of breaking the defense.
... surrender of Tarasivka should be viewed in the operations scale as a strategic defeat!
Now we are cut off from the border - that is, from any supplies
At night the enemy went through the Tonenkoe to the airport of Donetsk, creating a network
of base stations, each of which is protected 5-7 tanks.
Just now three Su bombers hit Saur-grave with heavy bombs. The results are not known yet.
Boeing is used by Ukrow "to the fullest"... Aviation of ukrow dominates in the sky with impunity.
In the area of Grygorivka militia attacked the convoy of the enemy. The results are still
need evaluation.
Items presumed to be the data recorders from the crashed Malaysian plane have been found and delivered
to Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, according to the leader of the self-proclaimed People's Republic of
Donetsk.
"Aircraft parts looking like black boxes were found at the site of the plane crash.
They are currently in Donetsk, in the People's Republic's (DPR) government headquarters, under my
personal control," Aleksandr Boroday, the republic's prime minister, told reporters.
The self-defense forces are ready to hand the data recorders over to international monitors "in
case they arrive," he said.
Boroday said that the found items "cannot be given" to Kiev representatives since in
that case they could possibly damage them to "falsify the results [of the recordings]."
Another official for the DPR, Sergey Kavtaradze, said that what he thought were the flight recorders
looked undamaged on the outside. He added that since there are no aviation experts in the DPR, they
cannot be absolutely sure that the found items are the black boxes. The items will be passed to
the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) which will lead the investigation into the
crash of flight MH17.
The publicly offered evidence against everyone in the Malaysian Airlines MH17 crash remains as
it was yesterday,
sparse and of dubious trustworthiness. The rhetoric continues to pick up steam, however, with
assorted Western officials continuing to pronounce absolute certainty as to the official truth,
whatever it happens to be at any given time.
Broadly, it centers on proclamations of the Ukrainian rebels' guilt, and Russian culpability,
though the narrative tends to be flexible, and yesterday's insistence of the rebels using a 9k37
Buk vehicle seized from Ukraine's military has, without explanation, transitioned into the vehicles
being provided by Russia, of which
Ukraine insists incontrovertible, though totally secret, proof.
The Obama Administration is similarly claiming evidence of rebel guilt, though their evidence
too is being withheld, likely in anticipation of further changes to the official story.
As the accusations fly fast and freely, another new question has emerged. If, as Ukraine claims,
it had so much proof of the rebels having such advanced anti-aircraft missiles, then
why was the claim never made publicly until nearly a day after the crash. Likewise, Ukraine's
claims of rebel shoot-downs of military aircraft in the leadup to the MH17 incident seem to be morphing,
as it was only hours before that incident that Ukraine was insisting Russia's Air Force was directly
behind the downing of their Su-25 warplanes.
The wreckage is still barely inspected, and Ukraine is
throwing around claims of a cover-up, perhaps anticipating that their allegations will not be
upheld when the evidence is examined.
But for most nations, particularly the US and other Western nations, the fallout of the incident
is something to be shopped around for diplomatic advantage, with officials
pushing Russia to forcibly end the east Ukrainian rebellion as some sort of payment for ending
the hysterical anti-Russia rhetoric surrounding the entire incident. Russia so far seems content
to hold out for actual evidence, but Western officials appear to believe it is a buyer's market,
and that the perception of guilt is the real problem for Russia, not whether it is upheld by weeks
of investigation.
At this time my provisional conclusion is that MH17 was shot down by an air
defense battery of the Ukrainian army, from Ukrainian territory, using an SA-17 Buk missile. I respectfully
associate myself with the statements of the Russian federal government on the issue.
My estimate is that a 9M317 single-stage, solid fueled missile was used, in semi-active homing
mode. The 317 uses a radar proximity fuse and a direct hit can probably be ruled out. That is to
say the warhead probably detonated away from the hull, perhaps as much as 50 feet away.
That is consistent with the eyewitness evidence, which is of the plane falling from the sky more
or less intact, and breaking apart on impact, and the tight debris field. Although there was a post-crash
fire most of the unfortunate victims seem to have died from negative G-forces whilst strapped into
their seats.
The fact that most passengers were strapped in suggests that Captain Leong had time to warn his
passengers of impending missile impact. There is some evidence that he took evasive maneuvers, correctly
diving the aircraft to increase speed and mitigate damage due to explosive decompression.
MH17's assigned altitude, by Ukrainian air traffic control, was FL330, or 33,000 feet. I suspect
that Captain Leong or his first officer saw the incoming and, as indicated, dived, so that interception
was at a lower altitude.
There is no evidence that the target fireballed at altitude, which rules out
a direct hit on the fuel tanks, although we may find some shrapnel damage.
The mainstream media, who are rushing to blame Russia, or pro-Russian separatists,
are showing typical aviation illiteracy, of the sort on display after MH370 was shot down. On
that occasion, as regular readers of this column will recall, they did not understand that aviation
fuel is light and evaporates. That basic technical deficiency led them to confuse the diesel
slick from the sunk Chinese SSK with fuel from the downed airliner.
On this occasion they are reporting at one and the same time, sometimes on the same page, that
the airliner was 'blown out of the sky' yet fell to the ground intact and broke apart on landing.
In the UK the Sun is leading the race to come up with the silliest reporting, with respect.
Its front page today was asinine. Its journalistic standards are in freefall to New York Times
levels.
If the stricken airliner did not fireball and had time to take evasive action, it also had
time to broadcast a Mayday message. The fact that it did not suggests that its radios were being
jammed. We will probably find that its ACARS reporting system failed as well, as with MH370.
I find it highly significant that there is a media blackout on the status on the ACARS system.
If the ACARS was disabled, or the radios were jammed, then the pro-Russian separatists
can safely be ruled out, although as I explain below they can be pretty much ruled out anyway, as
they lack the capability.
____________________
The SA-17
The SA-17, which also has a naval variant, originally entered Soviet service
in 1979, but it has been developed considerably since then, indeed the latest, SA-17, versions have
a different Pentagon classification.
It is fired from either a Transporter-Erector Launcher (TEL), with four missiles, or a Transport-Erector
Launcher And Radar (TELAR), which I think can carry up to six missiles, depending on version. It
is a highly capable system, in service with both the Russian and Ukrainian armed forces.
Some of the technology may have been transferred from the US during the Soviet period by DVD
assets in Washington. The SA-17 is similar to the excellent Standard missile, indeed it is sometimes
jokingly referred to as the "Standardski".
The distinction between the TEL and the TELAR is important, because it is being said that Russian
separatists captured a Buk launcher, although the evidence consists only of social media reports,
a dubious source of information at best. The evidence, such as it is, is equally consistent with
the Ukrainians setting the rebels up. The separatists themselves have strongly denied any high-altitude
interception capability.
The Buk represented a significant improvement over the SA-6 Gainful which preceded it. There
is no doubt that TELAR vehicles can both acquire and launch but significant doubt that a TEL on
its own has any target acquisition capability.
So far as I can tell a TEL is basically a launch on visual confirmation of target system, i.e.
pretty basic, rather like a shoulder-launched MANPAD. You see the target, point your missile in
its rough direction and shoot, relying on the missile's onboard target acquisition system (typically
infra-red with MANPADs and semi-active with the Buk) to achieve lock-on, hoping another target does
not get in the way.
The SA-17 is designed to be fired from a command vehicle, that is to say it is not so very different
from the SA-6, where you needed three vehicles (radar, command vehicle and launcher). There is not
the slightest evidence that the separatists acquired a command vehicle, indeed there is no reliable
evidence that they acquired a TELAR. The most they might have got – and I am not buying even that
– was a TEL.
If the most they have is a TEL then we can rule them out completely for a beyond
visual range engagement, as happened yesterday. Even if they had a TELAR there is no evidence
that they have anyone trained on the Buk. I do not buy the argument that it can be used by your
average separatist, many of them no brighter than the average journalist or MP (no offense intended),
without specialist training. There are no reports at all of the separatists having fired any
training rounds, i.e. if it was them they achieved a long-range kill first time they fired the
weapon. Not buying.
Missile speed for the 317 version is around Mach 4, giving Captain Leong no chance at all, given
that his radars were switched on and no one showed him my work on MH370. An SA-17 warhead is typically
around 70 kilos, or 154 pounds (there are different versions of the missile), enough to down a 777.
It's a big bird, around 18 feet long, weighing in at just over 1,500 pounds. It's large enough for
one of the pilots to have spotted its approach in broad daylight, given the good visibility. The
solid fuel rocket engine has a burn time of around 15 seconds and leaves a highly visible exhaust
trail.
The 317 has a range of about 27-28 miles. That is significant because MH17 was shot
down about 25 miles from the Russian frontier. That is getting close to the limit of system
capabilities for a launch from Russian territory. US intelligence sources are being quoted today
as saying that the missile was fired from within the Ukraine, which makes sense to me, and is
one of the reasons why I conclude, provisionally, that the Ukrainians were responsible.
______________________
Kiev Must Have Known It Was MH17
The next thing to note about the SA-17 is that it has a sophisticated phased-array
fire control radar, capable of target differentiation. Assuming, as I am prepared to assume, that
it was the Ukrainian army, then they must have known that it was MH17. A freely available phone
app was all they would have needed to tell them where the flight was.
The target was flying along a designated airway at a typical altitude for a civilian airliner,
probably with an active transponder until it was taken down after entering Ukrainian airspace. It
was not maneuvering, at least not until it saw the incoming, and could not conceivably have been
confused for a military aircraft, not least as it had been directed to the kill zone by Ukrainian
air traffic control.
____________________
Why MH17?
It seems that the motive was to discredit Russia, and that nice man President
Putin in particular. The Ukrainian attack on MH17 was obviously planned well in advance.
The preparations may have included fake entries on social media websites to the effect that the
rebels had acquired an SA-17 launcher. So far as is known there were no persons of interest on board
the plane, unlike MH370, save for the poor AIDS researchers.
It is wildly improbable that it is a coincidence that both shot down aircraft were Malaysian.
Someone is making a point. Malaysian Airlines are being taken down. If you have any frequent flyer
miles on Malaysian use them up now, preferably on a partner airline.
The Administration has also rounded on the Russians and the rebels. Its claim that the rebels
were to blame is obvious nonsense, which is unlikely to have been supported by professional intelligence
officers, who would have had access to pretty much the same ELINT as the Russians.
I entirely support Moscow's claim to be in possession of ELINT data indicating
that the target was painted by Ukrainian fire control radar, probably the organic fire control radar
of a Ukrainian SA-17 battery.
The total inability of the Administrationto give the co-ordinates of this
alleged rebel-controlled SA-17 launcher is telling. All that President Obama could say today was
that the missile was fired from within a rebel-held area.
That, with respect, is an obvious lie, since the NSA would have overheads, as well as the ELINT
data. If the attack genuinely came from a rebel-held area then you can bet your bottom dollar
the Administration would be handing out the evidence.
It is likely that the attack was cleared by Kiev in advance, high up the payroll, with both Berlin
and the White House. The FAA, which is penetrated and was implicated in helping to set up the Turkish
Airlines DC-10 Paris Air Disaster, seems to have helped in setting up the rebels as patsies. The
presence of only one US citizen on board carried obvious political attractions for the White House.
One must recall that the covert German DVD intelligence organisation has thoroughly penetrated
the Obama Administration, at a senior level, and is in effective control of the German federal government.
It is the world's only intelligence agency which regularly attacks commercial airliners.
The Russians have never knowingly shot down a civilian airliner on a designated airway. I leave
out of account KAL007 and the earlier KAL Boeing 707 incident, as those aircraft were well off course,
were intercepted at night and had violated Soviet airspace without authorisation.
There is no reason at all to suppose that the Soviet fighter pilots thought they
were attacking a Boeing 747, indeed there is no reliable evidence that KAL007 was even showing
her navigation lights. As I point out in Spyhunter there are unanswered questions about
that incident.
... ... ...
The Failure to Follow Up the MH370 Shoot Down
Those who suppressed my warnings from the aviation community now have blood
on their hands. Had poor Captain Leong known that the Bad Guys were deliberately firing long range
missiles at airliners using semi-active homing he would have known better than to cruise over contested
airspace with his radars turned on.
Had my advice, as given in Spyhunter and in this column after MH370 was shot down, been
followed, then this tragedy would not have happened. It is upsetting to see lives thrown away in
this casual manner.
At least my argument that airliners face high altitude missile threats, obvious from the time
we realised that the Iranians had shot down TWA800 with a Phoenix, may now be given greater weight.
Aviation security consultants have obsessed, dangerously, with MANPADS, which have a typical ceiling
of only 12-15,000 feet.
It is a pity that Malaysian Airlines did not consult me after 370. Almost alone amongst aviation
security experts I was alive to the high-altitude threat, indeed I am the only aviation intelligence
specialist in the world to have gone public on the high altitude missile threat to airliners.
I would have advised strongly against flying through contested Ukrainian airspace.
The FAA warnings and claims that the rebels had acquired a Buk would have been further red flags
for me.
There it is, sadly. The airline rejected my claim that MH370 was shot down, or accepted
it and participated in the cover-up, took no steps whatsoever to guard against the high altitude
missile threat and have now lost another 777, 295 people and probably the airline itself into
the bargain.
To get to levels of zerohedge paranoia ... wasn't there NATO exercises in the Black Sea that
have "successfully concluded" just um... yesterday? More shades of TWA 800. History is weird.
Malaysia's Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal (KLWCT) found former Israeli army general Amos Yaron
and the state of Israel guilty of crimes against humanity and genocide stemming from the massacre
of Palestinians in Beirut's Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in 1982.
For the past two weeks, Malaysia has been strongly condemning Israel's aggression on Gaza.
...and, possibly, for the past two weeks, Israel's been thinking about how to punish Malaysia.
WASHINGTON -- President Obama said the United States has "increasing confidence" that the
missile that shot down a Malaysian jetliner came from Russian separatists in Ukraine -- and that
Russia bears some responsibility for the crisis.
"Evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile from an area that
is controlled by Russian backed separatists inside Ukraine," Obama said in his first extensive remarks
on the passenger jet crash. "A group of separatists can't shoot down military transport planes or,
they claim, fighter jets, without sophisticated military equipment, and that comes from Russia."
Yes. We are also not winning in Iraq, and that comes from Iran.
Obama noted that about a hundred AIDS researchers and activists were reportedly on the flight,
headed to a conference in Australia.
"These were men and women who dedicated their own lives to saving the lives of others, and they
were taken from us in a senseless act of violence," he said. "It's important for us to lift them
up and affirm their lives."
Do speechwriters just string together random crap to generate maximum pathos?
Not sure about the creation date in the mp4 meta data being such a great evidence. It's known
to be iffy at times and different from the actual file creation. But on the original research
page
at zerohedge.com it becomes clear the video was partly preexisting since June 5 in terms
of format, production and some imagery used. Very sloppy all in all, even if the creation date
would be a red herring, the odd production and timing is certainly not!
And the shoot-down coming on the day the Israeli ground invasion of Gaza began is a curious
coincidence- something spectacular to divert the low-information public's attention? I have
to wonder just how much you'd have to pay someone- say, in the Ukraine military- to target and
launch on a civilian airliner as part of a false-flag op?
In other important, world-shaking news, Kim Kardashian was seen today showing off her bottom.
How easily we're distracted from real issues these days.
How does Russia possibly benefit from this shoot down (cui bono?). This question was not
asked by Washington when they claimed that Assad used sarin gas on his own people, even though
he had nothing to gain and everything to lose. And, naturally, they are not asking it now. Washington
does not want its sheeple to think now, does it?
Pictures that got to the Internet today from the crash site suggest that the airliner was shot
not "BUK" surface to air missile but by air to air mille from those "unknown" two fighters, which
were mentioned in his blog "the Spanish air traffic controller" who work at Borispol airport in
Kiev.
"In anti-aircraft missiles have different type of warheads depending to the type of the rocket,
" explained to the newspaper one of the creators of the complex "Buk". - So from the wreckage it
is easy to determine what type of rocket surface to air or air to air was used".
For example, in the complex "Buk" use anti-aircraft missiles MM. Their speed - 850 meters per
second, a warhead weight of 70 kg. Warhead payload consists of are metal balls which when the warhead
is blow near the target create a dense cloud of balls rushing to target of high speed.
"When such balls hit the aircraft it inflicts a mass of different holes, " says the designer.
- In the fuselage they can be small, in the fuel tanks much bigger and it they get into the engine
that they "knock out" all the turbine blades".
Judging by photos of the remains of a Boeing 777, the expert concludes that the plane was shot
by aircraft air to air missile. In their military units not the balls but a beam of sharp metal
rods, sometimes welded together, sometimes not. For the set bundle of rods installed release charge
which is called the "fragmentation rod combat unit". When the warhead approaches the target at predetermined
distance the charge is explodes in the warhead and a bundle of rods on supersonic speeds rush to
the target.
After contact with the aircraft a rod just due to its huge kinetics energy is to pierce the plane
through thus destroying the internal structure of the aircraft, including electrical circuits and
vital avionics equipment. The speed of the rod is such that he can break apart even titanium spars
of the aircraft. If the target gets more then 2-3% of these arrows, the plane is completely doomed:
at speeds of 900 km per hours even small hole fuselage or a wing is fatal as air flow will destroy
the damaged part in less than a minute.
Such warheads are installed on two types of missiles R-73 and R-27. At first its mass is 7.4
kg, second - 40 kg. Fighters MiG-29 and su-27 are equipped with those missiles. Both machines take
an active part in the Ukrainian troops "anti-terrorist operation" in the South-East of the country.
As noted the designer of Buk:
" I am confident that from the photos that appeared in the Internet visible damage to
the skin of the airliner has characteristic of fragmentation rods, not a high-explosive ball-based
warhead, such as Buk".
Those pictures make the mysterious message "Spanish" Manager that Boeing 777 was accompanied
by two Ukrainian fighter (the militia there is no technique), and his assumption that after the
"visit" of these cars passenger liner disappeared from radar screens, less implausible. In this
situation the version of of the Federal air transport Agency saying that the attack on the Malaysian
Boeing could be an attempt to shoot down the plane of the President of Russia Vladimir Putin, who
was returning from Latin America, as their routes overlap, and the colors of the fuselage two aircraft
very similar.
In favor of this version speaks that fact, that in the place of supposed route of two aircraft
of the Ukrainian military in advance deployed a battery of anti-aircraft missile systems Buk and
put them on high alert, as evidenced by the data of the radio interceptions of the Russian military.
They also raised into the air two fighters. And the fact that militia has no aviation means tha
attack was performed by the Ukrainian side. Looks like the pilots of the Ukrainian air force were
unable to distinguish Malaysian Boeing 777 from Russian Il-96.
And it is easy to make such a mistake due to similarity of sizes and colors of the plane. Moreover
in 2001 the calculation of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile system S-200V easily identified a
Russian passenger Tu-154 as a missile target and hit it destroying the airliner with all people
aboard. Although on the radar screen targets are drastically distinct with different size of the
label, and on speed of flight.
And it is difficult to say something positive about the training of Ukrainian air force pilots.
The bombing of cities and towns of the South-East of Ukraine shows a very low level of training
of flying personnel of the air force. This is confirmed by the number of lost in battle helicopters
and planes.
Global leaders rounded on
Vladimir Putin on
Saturday night as armed separatists continued to block international inspectors attempting to identify
and repatriate bodies at the Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash site in eastern
Ukraine.
Amid reports that pro-Russia
rebels accused of shooting down the plane had removed corpses themselves and were looting credit
cards and other possessions belonging to some of the 298 victims, Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister,
said that Putin had "one last chance to show he means to help [rescuers recover the bodies]".
Rutte vented his anger following what he called a "very intense" conversation with the Russian
president. Referring to allegations that bodies of the passengers, including 193 Dutch nationals,
were being treated with contempt and allowed to rot at the scene, he said: "I was shocked at the
pictures of utterly disrespectful behaviour at this tragic spot. It's revolting."
And here's the spin war verdict: the current Malaysia Airlines tragedy - the second in four months
- is "terrorism" perpetrated by "pro-Russian separatists", armed by Russia, and Vladimir Putin is
the main culprit. End of story. Anyone who believes otherwise, shut up.
Why? Because the CIA said so. Because Hillary "We came, we saw, he died" Clinton said so. Because
batshit crazy Samantha "R2P" Power said so - thundering at the UN, everything duly printed by the
neo-con infested Washington Post. [1]
Because Anglo-American corporate media - from CNN to Fox (who tried to buy Time Warner, which
owns CNN) - said so. Because the President of the United States (POTUS) said so. And mostly because
Kiev had vociferously said so in the first place.
Right off the bat they were all lined up - the invariably hysterical reams of "experts" of the
"US intelligence community" literally foaming at their palatial mouths at "evil" Russia and "evil"
Putin; intel "experts" who could not identify a convoy of gleaming white Toyotas crossing the Iraqi
desert to take Mosul. And yet they have already sentenced they don't need to look any further, instantly
solving the MH17 riddle.
It doesn't matter that President Putin has stressed the MH17 tragedy must be investigated objectively.
And "objectively" certainly does not mean that fictional "international community" notion construed
by Washington - the usual congregation of pliable vassals/patsies.
And what about Carlos?
A
simple search at reveals that MH17 was in fact diverted 200 kilometers north from the usual
flight path taken by Malaysia Airlines in the previous days - and plunged right in the middle of
a war zone. Why? What sort of communication MH17 received from Kiev air control tower?
Kiev has been mute about it. Yet the answer would be simple, had Kiev released the Air Traffic
Control recording of the tower talking to flight MH17; Malaysia did it after flight MH370 disappeared
forever.
It won't happen; SBU security confiscated it. So much for getting an undoctored explanation on
why MH17 was off its path, and what the pilots saw and said before the explosion.
The Russian Defense Ministry, for its part, has confirmed that a Kiev-controlled Buk anti-aircraft
missile battery was operational near the MH17's crash. Kiev has deployed several batteries of Buk
surface-to-air missile systems with at least 27 launchers; these are all perfectly capable of bringing
down jets flying at 33,000 ft.
Radiation from a battery's Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla (a village
some 30km south of Donetsk) was detected by the Russian military. According to the ministry, the
radar could be providing tracking information to another battery which was at a firing distance
from MH17's flight path. The tracking radar range on the Buk system is a maximum of 50 miles. MH17
was flying at 500 mph. So assuming the "rebels" had an operational Buk and did it, they would have
had not more than five minutes to scan all the skies above, all possible altitudes, and then lock
on. By then they would have known that a cargo plane could not possibly be flying that high. For
evidence supporting the possibility of a false flag,
check here.
And then there's the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller
working at Kiev's tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher;
for others, he's never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account - not accidentally
- has been shut down, and he has disappeared; his friends are now desperately looking for him. I
managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online - and now copies and
an English translation are available.
These are some of his crucial tweets:
"The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing
from radar (5.48 pm)"
"If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a
few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)"
"As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed
us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)"
"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was
taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control
know it too (7.14)"
"The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but
the Ministry of Defense didn't. (7.15)"
"The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from.
(7.31)"
Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between
Chocolate king President Petro Poroshenko - who would like a détente with Russia essentially to
advance his shady business interests - and Saint Yulia Timoshenko, who's on the record advocating
genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US "military advisers" on the ground
are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Timoshenko factions.
So who profits?
The key question remains, of course, cui bono? Only the terminally brain dead believe
shooting a passenger jet benefits the federalists in Eastern Ukraine, not to mention the Kremlin.
As for Kiev, they'd have the means, the motive and the window of opportunity to pull it off -
especially after Kiev's militias have been effectively routed, and were in retreat, in the Donbass;
and this after Kiev remained dead set on attacking and bombing the population of Eastern Ukraine
even from above. No wonder the federalists had to defend themselves.
And then there's the suspicious timing. The MH17 tragedy happened two days after the BRICS announced
an antidote to the IMF and the World Bank, bypassing the US dollar. And just as Israel "cautiously"
advances its new invasion/slow motion ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Malaysia, by the way, is the seat
of the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission, which has found Israel guilty of crimes against humanity.
Washington, of course, does profit. What the Empire of Chaos gets in this case is a
ceasefire (so the disorganized, battered Kiev militias may be resupplied); the branding of Eastern
Ukrainians as de facto "terrorists" (as Kiev, Dick Cheney-style, always wanted); and unlimited mud
thrown over Russia and Putin in particular until Kingdom Come. Not bad for a few minutes' work.
As for NATO, that's Christmas in July.
From now on, it all depends on Russian intelligence. They have been surveying/tracking everything
that happens in Ukraine 24/7. In the next 72 hours, after poring over a lot of tracking data, using
telemetry, radar and satellite tracking, they will know which type of missile was launched, where
from, and even produce communications from the battery that launched it. And they will have
access to forensic evidence.
Unlike Washington - who already knows everything, with no evidence whatsoever (remember 9/11?)
- Moscow will take its time to know the basic journalistic facts of what, where, and who, and engage
on proving the truth and/or disproving Washington's spin.
The historical record shows Washington simply won't release data if it points to a missile
coming from its Kiev vassals. The data may even point to a bomb planted on MH17, or mechanical failure
- although that's unlikely. If this was a terrible mistake by the Novorossiya rebels, Moscow will
have to reluctantly admit it. If Kiev did it, the revelation will be instantaneous. Anyway we already
know the hysterical Western response, no matter what; Russia is to blame.
Putin is more than correct when he stressed this tragedy would not have happened if Poroshenko
had agreed to extend a cease-fire, as Merkel, Hollande and Putin tried to convince him in late June.
At a minimum, Kiev is already guilty because they are responsible for safe passage of flights in
the airspace they - theoretically - control.
But all that is already forgotten in the fog of war, tragedy and hype. As for Washington's hysterical
claims of credibility, I leave you with just one number: Iran Air 655.
Rescue workers have recovered the second black box from the
Malaysian Airlines passenger airplane that crashed in eastern Ukraine, Reuters reported citing
an eyewitness Friday.
Earlier a spokesman from the Vostok Battalion said that they had found several objects that could
be black boxes near the town of Torez where the aircraft crashed.
A Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed near the town of
Torez in the Donetsk Region on Thursday. There were 283 passengers and 15 crew members on board,
none of them survived.
Ukrainian President
Petro Poroshenko said earlier on Friday one flight recorder from the plane had allegedly been
found by local militia who might take it to Russia in an attempt to "hide all traces."
Kiev blamed independence supporters in the turbulent Donetsk region for downing the passenger
plane with a surface-to-air missile. Militia forces said they had no missile systems that could
hit a target flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters.
Ukraine has repeatedly accused Russia of supplying arms to resistance forces in the east of Ukraine,
although there has been no evidence to this effect.
Ukrainian authorities and Malaysia Airlines are investigating the incident.
Course Boeing over Ukraine has changed. Who ordered this? Who in General has launched a
war zone? Have you heard anything from Ukraine as an explanation for this? No, of course. But
these explanations should be required.
As the wreckage of the plane were together in one heap? If the plane was shot at a height
of 10 kilometers, the debris would fly for miles. And they fell in a heap.
How is it that many personal belongings of passengers was untouched? What new passports
were demonstrated by "militias" (or whatever it was?) on camera in a few hours after the disaster?
Why shell hit the same spot twice? (the same airline within a few months of becoming a victim
of a mysterious catastrophe).
Why there were no US (or one) American citizen on board ? This is among other things gives
Americans reason to investigate the disaster. And this is when the investigation "softens" the
guilt of the performers of the American side (if we are talking about the bombing of the CIA)
- "its something we didn't blow up".
Ukraine claims that functionality of all air defense systems, which were captured by the
militias during surrender of the Ukrainian military units at the end of June 2014, was destroyed
by Ukrainian military. Russia denies that it supplied systems. Did militants really have has
an operational Buk?
Is it possible for a layman to operate "Buk" air defense system? Because generally the aircraft
should be clearly identified on the radar screen of such system. Well, for example, display
units on old defense systems monitor the movement of all purposes, and it is clear that any
target, flying from Europe, is 100% civilian aircraft.
If we assume that it was "militias" who launch the rocket, then to what group those men
belong? Is there a chance that hit militias "mole", i.e. there was a planned sabotage? It is
obvious that the attack is extremely disadvantageous for Russia, militias and extremely advantageous
to the United States and the puppet Ukrainian government.
Was there in fact this "Spanish air controller"? Or this is dezo. Who is he, what is his
name? Why Spanish? In Kiev, a lot of Spanish managers and difficult to identify?
Where are black boxes? What is their fate?
Did the militia has operational middle range air defense systems? Buk was captures in mid
June. why it was not used before if it was operational? Why it was not use for defense of Donetsk
from air bombardment?
What about professionals who can manage them? How militia can find them ? Did Russians send
their staff to operate BUK. If so they are professionals and can't hit passenger airliners.
They are not Americans or Ukrainians who have such a history.
How lame was the American satellite evidence that supposedly can read car registration plates?
Why they do not provide us with the conclusive evidence? Where is this video of the system that
launched the rocket? How can you determine from which zone Ukrainian or militia has deployed
rocket complexes? Are distance between Ukrainian Missile systems and militia missile systems
is measured kilometers or tens of kilometers?
Why is there no data from the Russian radars? Russian military were on high alert at this
period and monitor the entire territory of the military conflict. Was monitoring suspended ?
Hardly. Then where is it? Where the data is, for example, about the exact altitude of the liner
at the moment of missile strike?
Militiamen who arrived at the scene previously said that putrid smell of some of the victims
of the disaster was "stale". Was it really so?
Were Ukraine fighters in the air in the vicinity of the aircraft? That is, Ukranian standard
raction "TSE ne mi" (it's not me) does not surprise anybody but those planes can't be hidden.
Is there any evidence of present of Ukrainian fighter in the vicinity?
Why did Putin called Obama? What did they say? What the phone call pre-scheduled and on
different topic ?
What happened with the discussion of the situation in the UN? Why they did not force Kiev
to give all the evidence immediately.
Perhaps most questions have simple answers. But I would like to get answers to them.
Moscow notes large number of questions to Kiev about Buk systems in Boeing accident
"The Ukrainian authorities are busy concocting all kinds of nonsense and insinuations",
the source in Kremlin said
MOSCOW, July 19, 17:34 /ITAR-TASS/. There are too many questions to the Ukrainian authorities
about their Buk air defense systems and warplanes in the area of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777
jetliner crash in Ukraine, a source in the Russian power structures said on Saturday, July 19.
"Unfortunately, instead of taking concrete measures to investigate the causes of the accident,
specifically to ensure the security of evidence, the Ukrainian authorities, primarily the Security
Council, are busy concocting all kinds of nonsense and insinuations, putting forth sweeping
accusations and unconfirmed leads which are senseless to comment on," the source said.
He noted that "there are already too many questions" to the Ukrainian authorities "about
their Buks and warplanes in the area of the accident".
"They must begin a large-scale investigation of all activities of the Air Force, the National
Guard and other armed structures operating in Ukraine, which are countless and which are subordinated
to no one. There are lots of things to investigate there," the source said.
"He denied that the rebels possess the SA-17 Buk air-defense as Kiev alleges.
However, the Associated Press reported that a similar launcher was seen by the agency's journalists
near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne earlier Thursday. The Buk missile system can fire
missiles up to an altitude of 22,000 meters (72,000 feet), AP said."
This report will be repeated ad nauseum. pinning the blame on the Donbass forces.
I think that any analysis of the events surrounding the downing of MH17 should begin with the
following admission: no matter what, the AngloZionists will blame Russia. Just like 9/11, there
is no way, no amount of evidence, which would affect the unanimous chorus of Imperial doubleplusgoodthinkers
in their conclusion that obviously it could only have been "the Russians". So don't expect to come
across The Proof which will prove that the Empire is lying because if 9/11 proved anything it is
that even hard, undeniable truth can be easily ignored by the elites and their media.
Second, I have to begin my "kind of analysis" with the following disclaimer: my information on
air defense issues is about 25-30 years old which means that not only could my memory fail me, but
things might have changed a great deal since I last was exposed to them. Finally, the place from
which I observed air defense happening was a rather peculiar one: from a underground army command
center's air defense room which included a live fused (civilian+military) image of all the air traffic
over an entire continent. I never got anywhere near a SAM site in my life, and I sure have never
seen one being operated. Still, there are a few things which I know which might be relevant to this
case.
If I got something wrong, or if things have recently changed, PLEASE CORRECT ME.
How air defense normally works
The control of airspace is done by two completely different networks: a civilian and a military
one. The civilian one is the one people think of when they hear ATC (air traffic control). These
are the folks who manage flight plans, who talk to pilots on different altitudes, who track the
aircraft during the flight and make sure that there is enough distance between them. Depending on
an airplane's altitude and what it is doing, it remains in contact with different ATCs but they
all work together. One more thing: the radars used by civilian ATC are very primitive, all they
can "see" is a bearing. What helps them is that all aircraft have a so-called "transponder" to transmit
a special message which indicates their ID, speed, altitude and course. The ATC then superimposes
that info on his screen to get a pretty accurate idea of what the aircraft is doing. The important
thing about all this is that the military is normally patched straight into that data and that it
can use it to supplement the data military radars acquire by themselves. In other words, a military
air defense network "sees" and "knows" everything that a civilians ATC knows and sees.
The task of military air defenses is dramatically different from the civilians ATC: the military
expects to deal with aircraft who will do their utmost to remain undetected and once detected, the
military air defense network has to figure out a way to hopefully shoot-down the enemy aircraft.
As a result, the kind of technology used by the military is very different.
The first "layer" of a military air defense network will be long range detection radars. Their
task is to try to detect an airborne target as far as possible. Although one type of radar can do
this alone, typically data from different radars (including airborne ones) is fused to create a
single picture. Already at this point the air defense command post will be patched in into the civilians
ATC and it will have all the flight plans, airline names, aircraft types and expected flight routes.
The air defense command post's first task is to separate civilians (considered neutral) from possible
hostiles. These 99% of flights are routine and regular, the folks in charge have a very good idea
of what a normal sky looks like, they see the scheduled civilians aircraft doing their thing and
they easily track them. Some military radars even have the capability to detect the kind of aircraft
they are seeing on their radar simply by analyzing the radar signal bounced back (typically by the
aircraft's engine). If a target is ambiguous, the military can use a very different type of radar
to track that target: this target acquisition radar will operate on a different frequency, it will
have a much narrower beam, and it will provide the operator with much more info about the aircraft
even if the aircraft does not have a working transponder (which would be most unusual for a civilian
airliner). Again, modern armed forces have the means to fuse the data from any different radar types
(including airborne radars) to calculate a solution to identify and track a target. The next step
is the send a special signal, like a password, to check if aircraft might not be one of your own.
Civilian aircraft are not capable of this kind if "electronic handshake". Finally, if the military
air defense command post believes that the target his hostile, it selects the best radar and missile
combination to engage the target. Typically, this is done yet again by a highly specialized radar
which sends a burst of energy to the target which is reflected by the airborne target and which
is then caught either by a ground-based radar or even by the missile itself (that is called TVM
track-via-missile) which then can guide itself to the target without emitting any signal (alternatively,
the missile can use his own active guidance system which sends and receives radar signals). Advanced
air defense networks, such as Russia's, can automatically chose the best radar for each task, the
missile most likely to hit, the number of missiles needed for the task, the most threatening target,
the mode of engagement, etc. These systems are highly integrated and highly automated,
which also means that they are much safer than more primitive systems (more about that later).
They are also highly redundant which in practical terms means that if, say, in an ideal environment
a missile system like the Buk M1 is just one part of a much bigger network of systems, it can also
operate almost autonomously if needed (again, more about that later). Now we need to look at the
"who had what" on the day of the tragedy. First, let's look at
The Russikies and their capabilities.
While, obviously, they don't share with me the details of their moves, it is a pretty safe guess
to say that, especially considering the war going on right across the border, the Russians literally
had it all on that day: civilians radars, of course, but also long range radars (ground based and
airborne), lots of advanced advanced surveillance (long range detection) radars, lots of tracking
and fire control radars numerous radio and signal interception stations. Since all the data from
this integrated network of systems could be fused at the higher level command posts we can safely
assume that the Russian side had something like "20/20 radar vision": just about as good as it can
get. There is no way the Russian shot down this aircraft by mistake.
What about the Ukrainians?
Here the reality is dramatically different: almost all of the Ukrainian air defense equipment
is hopelessly outdated, far in excess of its normal shelf life. The Ukie air defense systems have
not trained with live firing for dacades. Unlike the Russian who use contracted professionals on
all crucial levels, the Ukies are known to be using conscripts simply due to a lack of funds. To
illustrate the bloodly mess the Ukie air defenses are, it is enough to recall here how gross incompetence,
mismanagement and outdated equipment resulted in the
downing of the
Siberian Airlines civilian aircraft in 2001. Since then, things in the Ukie air defenses have
only gotten much worse. Still, the Ukies did have an ATC which at the very least should have reported
that a civilian airline had a flight plan which would follow the points XYZ. I just cannot imagine
a Ukie officer giving the order to shoot at an aircraft without checking for the available flight
plans. Also, as far as I know, nobody ever reported that the transponder on the aircraft did not
work and, if so, then that means that the Ukie air defense crew should have been receiving a clear
signal identifying the aircraft. Let me add here that you can purchase special receivers and antennas
which can receive transponder signals on the market and that they are comparatively cheap (1000
bucks range I think). Lastly, but still an option, a Ukie air defense operator could have simply
lifted the phone, called the ATC and asked who such and such aircraft was. And even without that:
when you see an aircraft flying right around 550 knots at 10'000m in a straight line in a civilian
air traffic corridor, you can kinda guess that this is not a military aircraft on a bombing run.
So regardless of the state of disrepair of the Ukie air defense forces, there is just no way that
they could have mistaken this airliner for a Russian military jet flying on a combat mission. Oh,
and did I mention MH17 was flying on west to east course, not from Russia, but towards Russia? Bottom
line here for me is this: there is no way the Ukies could have shot down this aircraft by mistake.
The Novorussians now
Well, here again we truly have a dramatically different picture emerging. First, the Novorussians
have no ATC. Second, 99% of their air defense systems are either MANPADs (man portable) or heavy
machine guns. I did see footage of some kind of air defense radar and command post, but I suspect
that this was simply one surveillance radar left by the Ukies. No data fusion here, no integrated
air defense network, no long range missiles. Except for the few Buk M-1s which they did get as a
trophy when they took control a Ukie base a month or so ago. The fact is that I am still unsure
whether they really got anything operable systems at all (the Ukies claim that their soldiers had
disabled them, but that might not be true). But we probably have to assume that they got their hands
on a least one operational vehicle with its own surveillance radar, engagement radar and missiles.
As I mentioned earlier, modern states would integrate the Buk into a full air defense network, but
since in war time this might not be possible, it is possible for the Buk to detect, acquire and
engage a target all by itself. Frankly, I find it very unlikely that the systems the Novorussians
got their hands on would have been operational. I find it even more unlikely that they would also
have the people to operate them. Still, just to cover our bases, we have to assume that with Russian
aid these systems could have been more or less fixed, and that a crew could also have been sent
from Russia. Unlikely? Far fetched? Yes. But, alas, not impossible.
Still, there is the flight profile issue. The real threat for Novorussians comes from close air
support (low level) and from reconnaissance (medium level) aircraft. Not those flying at 10'000
meters. Also, a Boeing 777 is much larger than an An-26, Su-25, Su-24 or even Su-27. Also, ask yourself,
IF you had such a capable and advanced air defense system as the Buk, would you waste it on a poorly
identified target? Probably not. Still, I think that at least in theory the Nororussians could have
shot down this aircraft. Now let's look at the famous
Cui bono?
Well here at least the reply is unambiguous: only the junta in Kiev could have benefited
from this tragedy. For the Russians and the Novorussians, this is something between a real pain
and a disaster. Just when the Novorussians were winning without any overt help from Moscow and just
when Moscow was gradually successful in denouncing the human costs of Poroshenko's murderous policies
- suddenly the entire planet focuses just on one downed aircraft and the imperial corporate media
blames it all on Russia. As for Poroshenko, this disaster is God-sent: not only has everybody forgotten
that much promised "surprise" turned out to be a disaster, he can now kill scores of Novorussians
with no risks of that being reported in the corporate media. Not only that, but that gives the Ukies
a golden excuse to ask for ""protection" from their "aggressive and threatening neighbor". Again,
the only party who can benefit from this disaster is the junta. So, in summary, we have this list
of candidates:
1) A deliberate or mistaken Russian attack: superlatively unlikely
2) A mistaken Ukrainian attack: most unlikely
3) A deliberate Ukrainian attack: most likely
4) A mistaken Novorussian attack: possible
5) A deliberate Novorussian attack: most unlikely
I don't know about you, but to me #3 is the one blinking red.
Now let's look at some of the crazy rumors which we have heard today.
a) one or two Ukie military aircraft shadowing MH17 before it was shot down.
b) at least one parachute after MH17 was shot down.
c) an air-to-air attack.
d) an attempt as shooting down Putin's aircraft.
I don't know if any of these above are true, but what I do notice is that all of them, if true,
only 'fit' scenario #3: a deliberate Ukie attack. Nobody claimed that MH17 was shadowed by Russian
fighters and the Novorussians don't have any anyway (they only have one Su-25). If somebody was
shot down (the parachutes) then it was most definitely not a Russian Air Force aircraft. Ditto for
an air-to-air attack. As for shooting down Putin's aircraft, this seems far fetched to me, even
for the crazy freak show in power in Kiev. However, I would not put that kind of trick passed Uncle
Sam who can always blame it on the Ukies. What is sure is that the US wants Putin dead. So maybe?
The current version of the Novorussians is an interesting one: they say that a Ukie Su-25 shot
down MH17 and that they then shot down the Ukie Su-25. Actually, this is not the most unlikely possibility.
Of course, this also means that if the Novorussians attempted to shoot down a Ukie Su-25 they might
have missed and the missile might have continued towards the MH17 especially if its radar had gone
active. So a Novorussian mistake is still a "possible", at least in my mind. If, and this is a big
IF, this was a Novorussian mistake, I don't feel that we can blame them very much. The one
undeniable fact is that this disaster happened in Ukrainian ATC space and they, the Ukie ATC, had
the primary responsibility to keep MH17 in a safe air corridor and not the Novorussians who had
neither the technical means nor the legal obligation to do so. Also, just a few days ago the Ukies
had announced that they were closing the airspace over the combat zone to an altitude of 9600m (if
I remember correctly). If the Novorussians heard this, they could have easily concluded that MH17
was a military recon flight flying towards Donestk from Dnepropetrovsk. Besides, I am not at all
sure that the radar on the Buk M1 can differentiate between 9'600m and 10'000m or, if it can, that
the operator would have been aware of the difference this could mean.
Again, keep in mind my caveat above. I am not, repeat, not a specialist of air defenses. But
I did do some air defense and monitoring work in my past, and on the basis of that experience and
of what I have heard so far is here my guess:
I would say that at this point in time I am 90% in favor of the deliberate Ukie attack
theory. The remaining 10% I would give to the mistaken Novorussian attack version. I am
more than willing to change my mind if I get new facts.
Stuff we should look for
First, the black boxes. Even when hit, most pilots have the time to say something and that something
is usually recorded and radioed. Depending on the frequency used, that "something" should have been
heard by PLENTY of receivers, not only the Ukie ATC. But at the very least, we should have the voice
and data recorders from the last minutes of MH17.
Second, Russian radar tracks. That is a problem. The Russian military is one of the worst offenders
in terms of secrecy and short of a direct order by Putin, they are likely to be most uncooperative.
Still, these guys probably have it all: ATC chatter, pilot messages, transporter signal, exact location
of the missile(s) launched, point of impact, etc. As I said, they most likely had a 20/20 vision
of the air space over Donetsk. The trick is to get them to share it, especially with the corporate
media and the "independent" experts all already clamoring that the Russians are tampering with the
flight recorders. Still, things are changing in Russia, possibly after the PR disaster following
the Soviet shooting down of
KAL 007 (which
most definitely was a US spy mission and deliberate provocation), they are more willing to share
data. A spokesman for the Russian Air Force has already disclosed that they had recorded the signals
of a Ukie BukM1 battery surveillance radar at the moment of the tragedy. He even identified the
exact Ukie unit involved. Hopefully, as this scandal snowballs, the Kremlin will order the Russian
Air Force to make more data public. Not to convince Uncle Sam and his EU minions, of course, but
at least to convince the rest of the planet.
Speaking of Uncle Sam and his EU minions. They also know. The US and NATO maintains a 24/7 surveillance
of Ukie and Russian air space at least to the Urals, possibly even on the other side (though I am
not sure). I bet you that Obama was told who done it within 2 hours of the tragedy happening. That
info was probably shared with the Echelon countries, but not with the rest of NATO, but even they
probably know thanks to their own intelligence capability (Banderastan is chock-full of EU spies
not a single one of which was ever caught by the Ukie SBU since independence!). So here again
we have a 9/11 kind of situation: everybody knows, but nobody will admit it.
The last question then
There is an obvious last question which we need to ask: if the Ukies did it, could they have
done so without the US knowing about it? The answer, in case anybody had any doubts about this,
is absolutely categorically and emphatically not. No way Jose, not this regime, not one which is
110% dependent of, and submitted to, Uncle Sam. In other words, if this was a deliberate Ukie attack,
then this really was a deliberate US attack. Not quite a "false flag", but a sneaky dirty trick,
a longtime US specialty. The typical US way works like this: organized and planned by Uncle Sam,
paid for by the Saudis, executed by the Israelis. At least that is the historical record for US
dirty tricks. That is also most likely how 9/11 was done. Why bring in 9/11 several times at the
risk of infuriating the doubleplusgoodthinking crowd yet again? No, not just for the heck
of it, but to remind everybody that the folks who killed 3000+ people on 9/11 would not hesitate
for a nanosecond to kill "only" 300 or so, especially if the risk of getting caught is negligible,
which in this case it is. If in the case of 9/11 it is the entire Establishment which by stupidity
or by cowardice which was made an accomplice of the crime, in this case the folks who did it will
have the support of a rabidly russophobic Establishment which will not care one bit about the truth
as long as it allows it to further flame the flames of hatred against Russia.
A provisional conclusion of sorts - Lasciate Ogni Speranza
This crime will never be properly investigated nor will the culprits ever be punished for it.
Oh sure, there will be plenty of books in the future who will reveal it all in minute details but,
as Michel Parenti always reminds us, history is not only written by victors, it is also written
by the elites, the oligarchs, the banking establishment, the 1%ers. If anything, 9/11 has proven
that our society is completely indifferent to facts and proof. Our society is ruled by ideological
dogma and political expediency. In the case of MH17 the accepted dogma is that the Novorussians
are the bad guys and the political expediency says that this latest crime cannot be blamed on the
"heroic Euro-Ukrainian freedom fighters" or, even less so, on Uncle Sam.
Just as I wrote this last sentence above, I decided to check
my favorite Imperial Mouthpiece
and, sure enough, I read this: "US President Barack Obama has said a surface-to-air missile fired
from a rebel-held area in east Ukraine brought down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17". See, it
is that simple! How needs flight recorders of radar tracks anyway?! If the US President said so,
then it is so. Any other interpretation is a criminal delusion bordering on terrorism. Who needs
proof when we got both Poroshenko and Obama saying that the Russikies did it?
I am disgusted beyond words by both of these ugly, evil, clowns.
Well, I hope that that some of you will have found the exercises above useful, regardless of
all my caveats. I wish my recollection of working with air defenses was better and I wish my knowledge
was not 25 year old. As always, this is the best I can do and I share it to you, my friends, in
the hope to resist the imperial propaganda machine the best I can. If there are those amongst you
who have a more recent and possibly more hands-on knowledge of these topics, I beg them to share
that knowledge with the rest of us.
100% Chance Ukrainian Kiev intentional directed the plane over that
path and lowered its flight path to 1000 m above prohibited space, AND (then 50% Ukrainians
shot it down OR 50% the Self Defense Forces shot it down thinking it was a Military Plane. )
In all cases, it is the Ukrainian Kiev failure to indicate that should be a complete no fly
zone. Now in return, I have seven apartments in Lugansk being shelled by massive Ukrainian Arty
attacks with the Ukrainians Lying Openly and claiming the LPR is shelling their own city.
Which mind you many of these LPR people are Lugansk Residents. Lugansk has a much larger
percentage of Lugansk residents then Donetsk. Non of the peole I know would ever shell Lugansk
willingly.
Frankly the decision to NOT have refugee camps for civilians in Ukrainian Territory says
it pretty much. The goal is to drive AS MANY of the people (civilians) as possible out of Eastern
Ukraine permanently.
Unfortunately for the Ukrainians, the officer staff of the DPR is significantly more competent
then the ATO forces. Fairly obvious. Yes, I wrote once or twice before. Need to visit Florida.
Anonymous, 19 July, 2014 00:00
What is happening with the offensive against junta? Was it all stopped because of this, evidently
Kiev's/CIA engineered, crime against the passengers of the Malaysian airline? There is absolutely
no news of any kind on this front. It seems to be like this is yet another layer of evil directed
at the anti-Nazi resistance of Novorossiya.
Sligo, 19 July, 2014 00:07
Spin isn't reality. This business will do nothing to change the facts on the ground.
I can pretty much guarantee that no popular Western crusade against Russia or the Eastern Separatists
will develop as a result of this. The civil war will grind on.
The self-generated media hysteria will accomplish nothing and in a week or so the MSM will
be off yipping and hooting at the newest bright and shiny thing.
Nobody will be prosecuted. Someday the facts may come out, but nobody but enthusiasts will
care.
Anonymous:
Another very, very simple question:
Why would pro-Russian fighters even target an aircraft flying at 33,000 ft. and clearly headed
into Russia which is only 20 something miles away.
Personally, I think this is in a realm of total impossibility.
123abc
I think it's safe to say that ultimately there won't be conclusive evidence about who is
responsible for the planecrash.
The positions at the UN security council remained unchanged. Russia's foes accused Novorussia
and/or Russia. Russia's friends remained neutral and insisted on impartial investigations. Given
that there won't be proof either way I think that ultimately the planecrash is not a gamechanger.
The long-term projects (Eurasia, BRICS) will continue. Short-term there will be more sanctions,
but they won't be life-threatening.
Russia has already successfully dealt with at least one such incident (Ghouta), so it is
experienced in maneuvering in such stressful situations on the diplomatic front, it also has
experience in doing sufficient propaganda work to fizzle out MSM hysteria. Sanctions will come,
but Europe didn't fall for Ghouta, so hopefully they will also not fall for the planaecrash
incident. My only concern is that there is a danger that the propaganda work may be overdone,
for example „Der Spiegel" is already portraying Putin as a crazy conspiracy theorist.
What we can expect is that the US increases weapons supply to the junta, maybe even overtly.
But I hope it won't really change anything substantial on the ground. Russia will have to be
more careful with supplying Donbass, but I think they will manage somehow.
The worst case is that someone from Novorussian Army mistakenly shot down the plane and that
undeniable proof comes out. Is that a gamechanger? I think only if Europe wants it to be.
The question is will Russia still be able to support Novorussia? I think yes, they will call
for the responsible to face punishment, there will be hysteria, but it could be concentrated
on one person, or a small group of persons. And a month or two after that everything will continue
like before.
JohnM
This whole "incident" has the same smell as the Syrian gas attack false flag.
There will likely be the same kind of bullshit that followed that one.
I agree that the Russian military should have ALL the information on this, especially
if Putin's plane had been in the air ANYWHERE near the area or ANYWHERE close to the time it
occurred.
Does any intelligent adult believe anything coming out of the Ukrainian Junta's propaganda
machine anymore?
Anonymous
Virgin Atlantic plane was in same area as MH17: Packed Heathrow-bound airliner was flying through
Ukrainian airspace at same time as Malaysia Airlines aircraft was shot out the sky
So how come the Novorussians decided to shoot at MH17, but at none of the 100s of others
before it?
There is no way Novorussians would see MH17 as anything other than one of the 100s of airliners
that have traversed their territory.
mijj said...
yeh .. presenting evidence won't change US Regime propaganda one iota. But, intelligent people
who are wondering will welcome anything that has basis in reality.
What matters more than convincing the US Regime leaders to face reality, is to convert the
people into basing their views on evidence rather than propaganda. Ie. the schism between the
Regime and it's people is in proportion to the difference between the propaganda and reality.
The US Regime rulers have a mindset where they think they can create a reality by controlling
information. But we're all embedded within reality, reality isn't a figment of the imagination
to be controlled by propaganda. we all have an instinct for when propaganda differs from reality
.. so, that instinct needs to be helped along by presentation of evidence whenever possible.
/rant
Mario Drumond said...
I am writing in Portuguese with English translation from Google. My comment disputes the
Saker in the following point: the important thing is not knowing who shot down the plane of
Malaysia but who put him where he was. And we know that Kiev was the guilty one of this. If
the resistance militias shot down, did the legitimate right of defense since it does not have
air force or information or air traffic control in the region and thus for them anything that
fly over their heads is the enemy attack. But if the forces of the coup regime did so, it is
a war crime as they have access to all information of air traffic in the region. It is known
that the coup regime of Kiev thinks about war crimes.
Thus, anyone who guided the aircraft passengers to the center of the fire, or has allowed
it drove there is to blame for the accident. I would think so if any of my loved ones were on
that plane.
DonbassBrussels said...
Saker thanks for this analysis.I do have a probably stupid question for you,but anyway.
I can't believe that MH has two fatal ''accidents''(one being this missile attack,but nobody
knows what happened to the other MH flight earlier in march).
The probabilities of the very same airline,with the very same type of boeing(777)having twice
in a such short period of time two fatal crash and or attacks,are near 0.000000000001 pct for
me.
I used to work in the airline industry,MH is not a bad company eventhough they are no Emirates
or or any other IATA legacy airline.
They don't have so many flights from Europe to KUL compared to their competitors.They must
have been targeted and chosen on purpose.
Do you think Malaysia could have a kind of conflict with the empire?And that maybe because
they did not get the RIGHT message(blackmail)with the first crash..we have a second attack over
Ukraine...and over the Donbass and indirectly against MH..very very very strange coincidence
no?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist fan at all,but I do have difficulties to believe that.
Like we say in french'faire d'une pierre deux coups'.The Empire(US/NATO/UE)having used this
flight for both aims,the first being to destroy the credibility of Russia/dpr once and for all,and
the second,a second attack on MH and or Malaysia for a reason we don't know?
Let' s note that the first MH flight involved China and this time it is Russia..two BRICS countries
and the two most and probably last ennemies resisting the anglozio empire.
What do you think about that?
Thanks coop.
nb: just thinking about a mossad or mercenaries possibility as the Oligarchs have very deep
connections in Israel and very deep pockets as well, eventhough they are quiet buzy in Gaza
for the moment.
But never know..
John-Albert said...
As several people have pointed out, the BUK was sent into the SE for some reason. And the
BUK is principally designed to shoot aircraft down. There are not yet SE aircraft. Only Ukes
and civilians. I think via Occam's razor we have it there. The BUK are *inappropriate* for SE
battle, period. So I conclude the Ukrainians moved the BUK into SE with the clear intention
of shooting a civilian airliner down and blame it on Russia, which they've managed to do. They
had that flight fly as low as possible, to make certain of the BUK success. Cui Bono + Occam
Razor convinces me.
Q said...
Collateral Damage
I find it far to early for anybody to blame any side.
First one assumes that as with any civilian death in a war-zone that it was unintended collateral
damage. To fly into a war-zone that has every day airplanes shot at is a risk no airline should
take if alternate routes are available.
At this stage nothing should be excluded. One may speak about probabilities - anybody who claims
to know what happened only creates suspicion on himself.
One more possibility would be that a bomb had been placed in the plane which was triggered either
by gps or radio-signal to explode over the conflict zone.
The story with a su-25 being the one who shot it down doesn't sound reasonable. Those planes
don't fly at 10000m and usually have very limited air to air capability. They normally carry
only air to ground weapons and are to slow to chase an airliner at 10000m/900+kmh anyway.
One can never exclude pure coincidence but two airplanes in a few month is stressing chance
to the limit. Especially as many predicted that MH370 would reappear in a false flag. MH17 is
a bit like seeing a ghost plane.
Anyway lets hope that is not another
RMS Lusitania.
keyhoti1 said...
I got some information on the Buk system.
It requires a minimum of four vehicles - five if extra missiles are carried, or the launch
vehicle is not loaded.
The three other vehicles are for detection, aiming and control.
A highly trained crew of 15-17 personnel is required, so it all points to the Junta eh, given
all else.
Larchmonter445
On the way to my advanced degree in Communications I studied Mass Communications and Propaganda.
An overarching Law of Communication came from Goebbels.
"He who says it first is right."
Hitler's Basic Principles of Communication were simple.
Avoid abstract ideas - appeal to the emotions.
Constantly repeat just a few ideas. Use stereotyped phrases.
Give only one side of the argument.
Continuously criticize your opponents.
Pick out one special "enemy" for special vilification.
Goebbels' Principles of Propaganda developed the art into science.
Propagandists must have access to intelligence concerning events and public opinion.
Propaganda must be planned and executed by only one authority.
It must issue all the propaganda directives.
It must explain propaganda directives to important officials and maintain their morale.
It must oversee other agencies' activities which have propaganda consequences.
The Propaganda consequences of an action must be considered in planning that action.
Propaganda must affect the enemy's policy and actions.
By suppressing propagandistically desirable material which can provide the enemy with useful
intelligence.
By openly disseminating propaganda whose contents or tone causes the enemy to draw the desired
conclusions.
By goading the enemy into revealing vital information about himself.
By making no reference to a desired enemy activity when any reference would discredit that activity.
Declassified, operational information must be available to implement a propaganda campaign.
To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through
an attention-getting medium.
Credibility alone must determine whether propaganda output should be true or false.
The purpose, content, and effectiveness of enemy propaganda; the strength and effects of an
expose'; and the nature of current propaganda campaigns determine whether enemy propaganda should
be ignored or refuted.
Credibility, intelligence, and the possible effects of communicating determine whether propaganda
materials should be censored.
Material from enemy propaganda may be utilized in operations when it helps diminish that enemy's
prestige or lends support to the propagandist's own objective.
Black rather than white propaganda must be employed when the latter is less credible or produces
undesirable effects.
Propaganda may be facilitated by leaders with prestige.
Propaganda must be carefully timed.
The communication must reach the audience ahead of competing propaganda.
A propaganda campaign must begin at the optimum moment.
A propaganda theme must be repeated, but not beyond some point of diminishing effectiveness.
Propaganda must label events and people with distinctive phrases or slogans.
They must evoke responses which the audience previously possesses.
They must be capable of being easily learned.
They must be utilized again and again, but only in appropriate situations.
They must be boomerang-proof.
Propaganda to the home front must prevent the raising of false hopes which can be blasted
by future events.
Propaganda to the home front must create an optimum anxiety level.
Propaganda must reinforce anxiety concerning the consequences of defeat.
Propaganda must diminish anxiety (other than that concerning the consequences of defeat)
which is too high and cannot be reduced by people themselves.
Propaganda to the home front must diminish the impact of frustration.
Inevitable frustrations must be anticipated.
Inevitable frustrations must be placed in perspective.
Propaganda must facilitate the displacement of aggression by specifying the targets for hatred.
Propaganda cannot immediately affect strong counter-tendencies; instead it must offer some
form of action or diversion, or both.
These would be principles guiding the conduct of propaganda operations.
Larchmonter445 said...
james@wpc said...
It has only ever been the psychopaths against the rest of us. So I think it wise to reject all
labels they use to divide us and see ourselves as one humanity that instinctively cares for
each other.
Good advice. And the perspective on the Elites as psychopaths is correct. They brag
on Wall Street of their own pathology. Books are written of the psychodynamics of these rulers
of economy, military and politics.
Anonymous said...
From your first paragraph:
"...no matter what, the AngloZionists will blame Russia..."
Earlier today I took a screenshot of an NBCNEWS page. A video had a short descriptive sentence
which was spooky, sad and comical all at the same time. It is like watching the movie 1984 but
it is real life and I cannot leave the theatre.
"Officials are trying to find out whether Ukrainian separatists or Russians fired the shot
that took down Flight 17.
"I don't want America destroyed. I want her REDEEMED. Any American who DOESN'T want that
is NOT an American."
AMEN, Sister! Thank you for all you said. God, if we could just all work together developing
strategies to regain control of our politicians and rein in the oligarchs instead of bickering
and blustering and attacking each other.
james@wpc,
That was an excellent comment. Yes, psychopaths are drawn to power like moths to a flame
-- but in a system of representative government the constraints on their power, regardless of
however well it was designed, still boil down to the same thing: the willingness of the public
to get, and stay, involved in the process. That is precisely where we dropped the ball, and
while we were busy doing other things, the danged ball got hidden and we don't even know where
to look.
But the answers to this dilemma are out there just waiting for us to get our act together
enough to.. act together and get something done that really matters, to everyone eveyrwhere.
Please folks, let's get going on at least getting along and trying to decide what we really
want, and the best means of achieving it.
But, here is the kicker. Notice the red tips on the missiles. This designates they are training
rounds with inert warheads. Red tips on missiles to designate training or test rounds is a standard
practice for all ex-Soviet states including Russia and Ukraine. The DPR leaders, or anyone knowing
how to use this equipment, would know this and would never try to use them to actually shoot
something down.
If you look at any deployed BUK launchers, they always have white tips. These are live. I
have not seen any evidence that the militia have acquired live missiles to replace the test
rounds. This could be a good reason why we have not seen them deployed or talked about since
they were acquired. This could also explain the conflicting reports from Kiev about the militia
having them and then not having an active system.
WizOz 19 July, 2014 04:19
@Larchmonter445
You are unfair to the real father of Propaganda, Edward Bernays, the nephew of Dr. Freud,
who wrote in 1928 a book entitled "Propaganda"!
"I remember a book I read called PR: A Social History of Spin. The author discussed how
the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, Dr. Josef Goebbels, was an ardent student of Mr. Bernays,
despite the fact that Mr. Bernays was Jewish. Goebbels desperately wanted to meet Mr. Bernays
and apparantly sent numerous books to him to be autographed. We don't know if Mr. Bernays
autographed them, but Goebbels claimed that he did. Goebbels, who had a PhD in philosophy
(which is crucual in terms of understanding how he was able to understand Bernays and apply
his writings in the way that he did), apparantly had an even larger library on propaganda
than Mr. Bernays and had not only read all of his books, but had largely memorized a good
deal of them as well.
Goebbels was able to utilize Bernays' ideas on propaganda in a manner that was the most
malicious and homicidal ever seen in the 20th century: to support the Final Solution".
Actually you find a good presentation of Stuart Ewen's book "PR!A Social History of Spin"
@PR! A Social History of Spin; Mapping out the Development of PR" (pdf).
Anonymous said...
Fwd from Canuckistan
@Larchmonter445
Thx for that excellent summary re: propaganda.
It will surely help "us" in our collective quest to counter and challenge "our" yellow
journalists that repeat the narrative and precanned scripts that fuel the politicos suspicious
motives.
@Saker et @all, thx for your continued efforts and keep fightin' the good fight!
"Propaganda is as propaganda does,eh?"
Writer said...
Saker,
Listing and comparing all possibilities is good logical discipline and a useful exercise
in any confusing situation. With that in mind, one possibility has not been adequately examined,
an attack using interceptor aircraft. To understand why, compare the characteristics of
an interceptor to a surface-to-air missile.
A manned interceptor allows a visual identification of the target. (This is particularly
important in peacetime operations.) It also allows confirmation of destruction, with repeated
attack, if necessary. And it allows (at altitude) the use of guns rather than guided rockets.
While none of these may have been an issue in this case, there is another characteristic that
makes an interceptor attack quite distinctive: it can be done at long range.
This means (in principle) that anyone within a thousand kilometers (or more) could have attacked
that aircraft. Of course, this goes "down the rabbit hole" quite far, but it is a possibility,
and should be considered.
Having said this, and together with everything else that has been said on this subject, one
might ask, what was the purpose of this attack? Besides the propaganda value, it is a distraction
from what is actually happening "on the ground", so to speak. It allows the media, and whole
societies, to focus on something of little significance while ignoring important developments.
In that respect, it has been successful, even here in this forum.
Perhaps this war has a similar function, in a wider context.
Anonymous said... 19 July, 2014 05:25
"The death of about 300 people fully lies at the Ukrainian government's door," Matviyenko
said. The incumbent authorities in Kiev "are like thimble-riggers - they say one thing and do
a totally opposite thing."
"Independent investigation will give all the necessary assessments and we hope it will cool
off the hotheads in Kiev and will bring them back to senses and will show them that it's impossible
to continue the combat actions because a full-blown civil war will be the next phase," she said.
Anonymous said...
You don't even need to walk on the quicksand of "nineelven" for an example. There are plenty
of undisputed (any more) ones.
Remember the Maine anyone ?The US blew up one of its own battleships with about 1200 men
onboard, just to start a war with Spain. How about the Tonkin Gulf incident...even mainstream
corporate press admit that was a set up.
What about the recent sarin gas attack on Syrian peasants arranged by the degenerate govt.
of Turkey with the foreknowledge and tacit approval of the Obama administration ? That's been
outered in detail by Seymour Hersh..
Anonymous said...
Thanks for the analysis. This is a False Flag in the oldest tradition of the US War Party.
I'm sure Russia knows exactly what happened. The ukie air space must be the most closely monitored
in the world.
AGS said...
To JamesWPS. Here's a question. Name a successful world leader in the last 100 years who
was not ruthless. Its a prerequisite for leadership these days.
I have NEVER hopped on the bandwagon to criticize Putin just for shits and giggles. He's
a pretty pragmatic guy. He wants to move Russia forward. And he's sick of ruthless American
hegemony which is responsible for a lot of human suffering in the last century. I get all that.
Given the spiraling moral depravity of ZUSA -- I sympathize. But he learned his craft at KGB.
If I can pull up my big-girl panties and admit that GHWBush wasn't just some well-mannered patrician
(but a ruthless CIA black-ops chief) then you can admit Putin is ruthless too. You can argue
Putin has better reasons for being ruthless. Don't know. Doesn't matter. He wouldn't be President
of Russia if he were NOT ruthless.
I'll say this one more time. I have NO FUCKING CLUE who shot that plane out of the air. But
I would bet the farm that Obama and Putin DO know exactly who pushed the button -- and why.
I don't think Kiev or Novorussia fired the missile. It's possible. But unlikely. I believe someone
WANTS us to believe Kiev or Novorussia was responsible. Ineptitude or fog-of-war is more palatable
than purposeful intent when you kill a bunch of passengers and families on a civilian flight.
US could have done it. We have the means and ability and are RUTHLESS enough to kill innocent
civilians with missiles. Some might say we've had lots of practice. But no one has offered a
rationale for that scenario that seems plausible. Russia had the means, expertise, opportunity
and MAYBE -- based on what Strelkov said was found at the crash site -- a rationale for it.
We will never know. Ever.
My only job -- as a part of humanity -- is to be a filter for TRUTH. Shilling or spinning
for EITHER the blue or red team is cring-worthy. I'm too much of a snob to shill for anyone.
Truth doesn't need shilling.
Andrew said...
Saker:
Starting from about noon today in the eastern US, the Russians have been sitting back with
a wide Cheshire grin, as oppose to the suspicious panic they had yesterday.
Old Ez posted a very interesting link upthread - I would say by far this is the most interesting
post on the thread.
This tells me two things. Yesterday, the Russians knew the plane had been shot down with
a SAM launched in Donbass, but they weren't sure immediately who had done it since they knew
that the DNR had Buk systems obtained from Ukraine that Russia may very well have helped make
recently operable. Today they were able to confirm to their own satisfaction that it was the
Ukrainian military that is the guilty party, whether out of sheer incompetence as with the Transsiberia
shoot down, or out of conspiratorial malice, which is my suspicion and likely theirs.
So today we see Russia rejecting the possibility of the black boxes being delivered to them
and saying Kiev should lead the investigation of this mess (in other words confidently sitting
back knowing they have a Royal Flush in their own military data as to exactly what happened),
blaming the Kiev MOD for having brought operational AA SAM systems in theater and pointedly
suggesting they were the origin point of the shoot down, and threatening to back up NAF with
military force in the event of further cross-border artillery provocations. Russia in other
words is sitting back and rolling with the western punches, confident that no matter what the
West and Ukraine try to spin and release as "the truth", they will be able to trump with leaks
of their own intelligence data that show exactly who did it from within the Ukraine military.
Western newspapers relying on CIA/NSA/DIA sources have leaked the sort of "primitive" intelligence
we might suspect the US to be capable of providing in this theater from satellites and whatever
assets it has in Turkey, the Black Sea, and elsewhere nearby and correctly concluded that a
missile was launched from the conflict area and not from Russia. If they have figured out more
than that, such as the specific launch location or system used, they haven't yet let on, and
I am not sure they would be able to get that specific..
Russia on the other hand not only has its own air defence radar and data systems immediately
adjacent to the crash site as opposed to hundreds of miles away, but also has the benefit that
the Ukrainian systems (both ATC and AA defense) were all formerly operationally linked with
Russia's, with the likelihood that book door access capability still exists into their operating
data, to say nothing of innumerable Russian agents with the SBU, military, and MIA able to provide
human intelligence, as well as of course direct access to NAF intelligence gathering. It
is therefore highly likely that Russia knows exactly where the missile was fired from, what
Ukrainian unit did it, and has a voice recording of the fire command and related crosstalk from
Ukrainian military coms and also from Kiev-Borispol and Dnipropetrovsk ATC.
In other words, Ukraine can spin all they want, but Russia is going to dribble the real truth
out slowly unless Ukraine will just man up and explain what happened to a candid world.
karlof1 said...
Operation Northwoods was the template for 9/11. The actual documents are publicly available
at the National Security Archive, http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/
As I've outlined, World War 3 has already begun, and the latest BRICS moves present a very
big challenge to the US Empire, and the war within Ukraine is just one of many engagement fronts
already occurring. Like the Hydra, the Unipolar Power is very resilient at fighting off the
efforts to bring about a multi-polar world and has never wavered from shedding blood--anyone's.
I predict the intensity on the global scale will escalate and a new "hot spot" will sprout.
Andrew said...
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this little item, but isn't it funny how when 300
precious westerners are killed in Ukraine, it is an international outrage, but when Ukraine
kills that many Russian among its own citizenry in the matter of perhaps a week by bombing,
strafing, missiles, artillery, shooting, there is crickets chirping?
Could it be because as we already know thanks to Hitler, Streicher, Yatseniuk, and Poroshenko,
Russians are subhuman? So their death's don't even count? Like Palestinians? Who just in one
day saw as many of their compatriots die at the hands of Israel as died in MH17 crash with nary
a peep of outrage from the West?
Anonymous said...
Про "фальшивого" диспетчера (About the "fake" Manager)
"After the sensational statements Spanish Manager who worked at the Boryspil airport and
reported the fact of destruction of the "Boeing" Kyiv junta, was quickly brushed his Twitter
(which is pointless - screenshots is more than enough) and began trying to discredit the source,
saying that not the Manager and he was not such a person.
It is quite logical for fascists and their accomplices, as the Spaniard actually start torpedoed
preparing a provocation. In fact, as mentioned earlier, the Spaniard more than real and flashed
in the press long before history with the destruction of the "Boeing" Kyiv by the Nazis. For
example, here is the note from may 9, 2014.
Spanish blogger about the situation in Ukraine: People filled with hatred
Spanish blogger Carlos (@spainbuca) used his Twitter page to offer their own vision of what
is happening in Ukraine, where he has several years of experience with the air traffic controller.
However, the radicals called "separatist agitator" and demand his expulsion from the country.
On his Twitter page Carlos running Manager in Borispol, seeks to present objective information
about the events in Ukraine without trying to join any of the conflicting parties. Unlike many
large European media, he is not afraid to admit that to death in Odessa involved far-right radicals,
and the Ukrainian military men are not eager to fight against their own citizens in the South-East
of the country, as required by Kyiv authorities. Some readers thank him for his detailed and
unbiased coverage of political crisis in Ukraine, others require for his expulsion and even
death. "I have my own opinion, their own point of view, the point of view of an ordinary man
with a job that does not imply any dependencies. I do not belong to the media, to any political
party," emphasizes blogger. "I think people are filled with hate . I do not see the possibility
of returning to the West and East of peaceful life together. ... This conflict, and the people
don't want it resolved. And hatred is so great , at least in Kyiv that this country, I think,
will not be able to live in peace and tranquility," Carlos said in an interview with RT. "My
co-workers are not only intended to inform the authorities about what I give my point of view,
they are urged to ensure that sent me a whole battalion to have me deported to get me killed,
" said the Spaniard. - I had a meeting with the security service of one of the European embassies,
during which they told me that I better bring his family out of the country within 24 hours.
In the end, I listened and day took my wife and daughter from Ukraine".
Of course he they will try to shut up and try to discredit, as his testimony ideally complement
the testimony of several witnesses who had seen the aircraft junta near the crash site.
PS. Also in the topic.
1. The "Buk", which the junta was trying to pass for a Russian, was documented through Krasnoarmeysk
occupied by the junta from may, it was no one rocket.
2. According to the message of Zygobranchia, "Boeing" was first fired from the Ukrainian "Buka",
calculation missed and the ship was finished with rockets "air-air" with the Ukrainian aircraft.
3. In General, various Conspirology in my opinion complicates the problem - facts indicate that
the "Boeing" was shot down by a Ukrainian aircraft that was the reason of his death. The version
with "Bukh" in my opinion is a false trail."
Perhaps the Buk missile took out one of the Ukrainian fighters, which accounts for the parachute
seen, and the remaining fighter then shot down the airliner.
Paul II said...
Victor,
Perhaps they don't want people to contaminate the crime scene. It is looking entirely possible/likely
that an air-to-air missile was used, and they need protect the evidence.
As for a BUK, sounds like more noise in the endless noise around the Anglo-American Empire's
desire to maintain control of the world.
Sampanviking said...
As you said Saker Cui Bono
Look not only at the combat position on the ground (you do not need me to list that for you)
but also further afield.
First you have Europe and US wholly out of step over sanctions and the EU unable to agree
its new President and Foreign Minister, purely on account of Russia
Second - within hours the Israeli ground offensive starts to roll and has the best media
shield money could buy!
Anonymous said...
Just to add possibilities:
Consideration against a deliberate Ukies shot downof MH17: they should know that the debris
would fall in Novorussia controlloned areas and then profs possibly found.
Then, addo this.
If, for some reason, high altitude reconnaissance russian aircrafts were in the area, the Ukies
tryed to hit them with such Buk missiles (recently rushed in the region). In the route was the
MH17, or the aircraft/aricrafts entered in the MH17 shadow. So the missiles (such AA missiles
are fired in salvos, no just one), hit the MH17 and, possibly the (or one of the) russian aircraft.
Anonymous said... 19 July, 2014 05:25
"The death of about 300 people fully lies at the Ukrainian government's door," Matviyenko
said. The incumbent authorities in Kiev "are like thimble-riggers - they say one thing and do
a totally opposite thing."
"Independent investigation will give all the necessary assessments and we hope it will cool
off the hotheads in Kiev and will bring them back to senses and will show them that it's impossible
to continue the combat actions because a full-blown civil war will be the next phase," she said.
Anonymous said...
You don't even need to walk on the quicksand of "nineelven" for an example. There are plenty
of undisputed (any more) ones.
Remember the Maine anyone ?The US blew up one of its own battleships with about 1200 men
onboard, just to start a war with Spain. How about the Tonkin Gulf incident...even mainstream
corporate press admit that was a set up.
What about the recent sarin gas attack on Syrian peasants arranged by the degenerate govt.
of Turkey with the foreknowledge and tacit approval of the Obama administration ? That's been
outered in detail by Seymour Hersh..
Anonymous said...
Thanks for the analysis. This is a False Flag in the oldest tradition of the US War Party.
I'm sure Russia knows exactly what happened. The ukie air space must be the most closely monitored
in the world.
Anonymous said...
Fools think 'the truth' will save Russia- but the famous saying "truth is the first casualty
in war" is ever true. The 'zionists' took control of the mainstream and fake alternative
media outlets to control the 'truth' perceived by the sheeple- and in this aim they are 100%
successful.
False flags are used because false flags work. That a false flag is a lie by definition never
matters. False flags are always a small part of a well co-ordinated propaganda effort.
The aim of the West was to draw Russia into the Ukrainian situation (by threatening to eject
Russia from its essential port in Crimea), but ensuring Putin did not take the big step and
liberate the entire region of Novorussia. The 'stick' was the claim that if Russia went into
Ukraine, the West would immediately go into Syria. This argument persuaded Putin to be an 'appeaser',
and we all know how that works out.
Did you know the BBC claims that all the shelling on civilian areas in Novorussia is actually
likely to be a result of rebel ground-to-ground missile strikes? You and I would choke on the
thought of a lie that big, but the BBC states that lie every time it covers the situation in
Novorussia.
Their evil knows no bounds. If you make the mistake of thinking that because your opponent
is the West, in some sense there is 'hope' because the values of the West are fundamentally
'good', you are literally insane.
I would humbly suggest you look again at how the 'Allies' (the West) fought WW2. Not even
Genghis Khan had the same taste for exterminating whole cities full of innocent Humans that
the British and Americans used as their main method of waging war. Yes, the wartime Japanese
were unthinkably evil, and the Nazis ruthless beyond all excuse, but the Allies were led by
a far higher evil- one that used every aspect of WW2 to prepare the ground for one final World
War- the World War we are drawing ever closer to.
BuckHam said...
The actual airliner shooting and the corresponding mass propaganda are a clear indication
of the "target Russia strategy" and the culpability of the puppet masters.
circumstantial evidence shows it.officially facts don't matter, they never did. the western
propaganda machinery will not be distracted from it's ultimate goal: the dismantling of Russia
by all means.Voltaire net's quote is most fitting here:
"Since the attacks of September 11, we are witnessing a transformation of the way
the media report the news. They lock us in the unreal. They base truth not on the coherence
of a presentation, but on its shocking character. Thus, the observer remains petrified and
cannot establish a relation to reality.
The media are lying to us, but at the same time, they show us that they are lying. It
is no longer a matter of changing our perception of facts in order to get our support, but
to lock us in the spectacle of the omnipotence of power. Showing the annihilation of reason
is based on images that serve to replace facts. Information no longer focuses on the ability
to perceive and represent a thing, but the need to experience it, or rather to experience
oneself through it."
The Lockerbie case which turned factsupside down blaming Lybia's Ghaddafi is a case in point
(among others).
Think! Peace in Palestine would be trivial for the West if it were desired. Peace in the Ukraine
simply required the same solution witnessed peacefully in Czechoslovakia- a division into new
nations on long-standing ethnic lines. The destruction of Libya, Syria and Iraq only happened
because the West chose such evil. When the 'Cold War' ended, the West actually ramped up its
nuclear weapons programs, ending the anti-missile treaties so 'first strike' nuclear strategies
could be advanced.
Humanity does not want World War, but the mosters that rule the West surround themselves
with various types of influential death-cult servants like the zionists and fundamental 'Christians'
(who are not Christians, because they follow the Jewish Old Testament/Torah which Christ and
his followers specifically rejected when they created their new religion).
The entire ruling class in the USA wants to see Russians subject to the same never-ending
military aggression that the Palestinian people live with on a daily basis, yet Putin chooses
to cosy up to the monsters of Israel, because of their historic links to Russia.
Russia's supreme strategy is to own a nuclear arsenal far, far larger than most suspect,
and to ensure that if the worst happens, they have the absolute capability of wiping out every
square inch of the USA. What this fails to take into account is that the ultimate evil that
has taken control of the West is anti-life. It craves the destruction of all life on Earth-
to turn our planet into another lifeless body, like Mars (not so long ago, Mars was also green
and blue).
Mankind has an inherent sense of self-preservation. True evil must seek to over-rule this
somehow. First evil needs to take control of Man's destiny, and this is what zionism is for.
This is what the full surveillance programs revealed by Snowden are for.
Yonatan said...
Dear Saker
Here is a
very useful summary of the situation. It refers to Russian radar systems, and reminds us
about the false flag missile launch in the Mediterranean detected by Russia that could have
been a pretext for military intervention in Syria.
The important points from the article:
And here's what he [Putin] has done today is quite definite statement (yandexed):
i) Putin said that the cause of the plane crash was a "crime" [this word is inappropriate
when it comes to technical failure]
ii) He said that the guilty country on which territory the crash happened - that is Ukraine.
("The state, on the territory of which it happened, is responsible for this terrible tragedy").
iii) Putin promised to present evidence of his statement. ("I have already given the appropriate
instructions the Ministry of defense .. that they have rendered all the necessary assistance
in the investigation of this crime. We will do everything that depends on us to have an objective
picture of the incident was a treasure and our public, and the public of Ukraine, and all over
the world").
iv) The US has a system of control over space, similar to the Russian early warning system.
American satellites and installed in Europe radars also fix everything that flies and goes and
crawls. And representatives of the American intelligence has already stated that they recorded
a missile launch ground-to-air "by the Malaysian Boeing. But it did not name the place running.
Said that "could not determine" the edition of the Wall Street Journal. The second part is not
true. Perhaps Americans don't want to open a public place missile launch. Why?
v) In an hour after the fall of Boeing Vladimir Putin called Barack Obama and something spoke
to him. After that, according to unofficial data, the U.S. and EU agreed to consider disaster
Malaysian flight MH17 "accident". In any case, we already know that the US President on Friday
will hold a meeting with the national security Council, which will provide him with all that
is known about the disaster. While CNN reports that the fear of escalation of tensions in Ukraine
States will try to be "extremely cautious conclusions".
To me this seems to say Putin has evidence it was done by the Ukrainians and can provide
evidence to back this up. Obama knows this.
The Ukrainians have previously (in 2001) shot down a civilian aircraft. Ukraine kept up the
"it's not us" story for 6 months, ans when supporting evidence came out stated it was "by accident"
qualified by "It happens to everyone".
This blog is full of spéculation. At the moment Stuart Ramsey of Sky is on the ground at
the crash site and has seen only gréât care being exercised by the local population who are
collecting the bodies, bagging them and placing them carefully at the roadside. He says thčse
are very religious people and are behaving respectfully. He has seen no looting although admits
there may have been isolated, rare cases. A little less judgement and a little reflection would
help everyone hčre. This is a war zone created just as much by the EU as by Russia. Never forget,
thčse folk want to be Russian not European. They have a right to self-determination. Look at
the mess in Iraq, in Syria, in Libya. Trying to force different cultures to live together doesn't
work. Putin was merely supporting people he thinks of as his own because that is what they want
from him.
Also, why was this plane flying over a war zone. Other airlines' pilots refused to do so.
Malaysian Airlines seem to have a nasty habit of disappearing out of the skies after pilots
diverted.
Span Ows > artemis in france
I agree with what you write. Also, the US Intelligence services have been pretty good at
telling the Ukrainians EXACTLY what was happening regarding troop and equipment movements etc
but suddenly are all coy and/or ignorant? Pull the other one!
dramocles > artemis in france
Al Jazeera has a more balanced take too. A Dutch observer was interviewed and said much the
same about the respect being shown at the crash site. Despite the hype being generated by some
European politicians you can't leave bodies rotting in fields in summer heat.
There's a lot of political ranting going on right now but we don't know what really happened
yet and it will take time for the truth to emerge (I remember when the USS Vincennes shot down
an Iranian airliner - the truth about that took a while to come out).
Same talking points as in NYT and WashPost. That reminds me coverage of Georgian invasion into Ossetia
in 2008 so closely that I think that same propaganda templates are used. No slightest desire to analyze
facts, construct models that point where the aircraft was exactly shot and what Buk batteries were present
in the vicinity of this area. Disgusting, simply disgusting. Luckily there is some resistance to brainwashing
which is evident from the comment below.
I see Kiev have ignored the demand from Russia and the rebels for a ceasefire in the area
so the rescue and international investigation can begin.
Just goes to show how much respect Kiev have for the dead that they continue to bombard
the civilian population and hold up the rescue efforts while making wild accusations against
the Russian speaking population of SE Ukraine.
Kiev need to cooperate with Russia and the rebels controlling the area so the rescue can
be done asap.
dinfr31, 19 July 2014 10:24am
Does the black box emit a signal enabling it to be found after disasters such as this?
If this is the case can that signal be tracked to see if it (the black box) is in fact been
moved to another location?
RandolphHearst dinfr31, 19 July 2014 11:01am
Yes it does. It can also be turned off / disabled.
RuStand, 19 July 2014 10:34am
An Chris Johnston should be happy. His article on the 38 bodeis taken by the rebels to
morgue instead of letting them to rot in the filed ignited a sizable outburst from all osrt
of morons.
Ron Paul, a former Texas Congressman, points out that the missiles potential source of manufacture
is immaterial and argues that although ISIS has a lot of American weapons this does not
mean that the US government and Obama wanted them to fall into ISIS's hands. He goes on
to add that speculation of Kremlin involvement in the form of pro Russian militia seems
propagandised.
What is evident is that those involved in the conflict in eastern Ukraine cannot be considered
impartial and objective sources of information. The Ukrainian security forces released the
unverified tape of a conversation between pro Russian rebels purporting to admit responsibility
for the downing of the Malaysian airliner – however, they can hardly be considered to be
unbiased and objective. What is most worrying is the "free press" in the west has taken
this on board as factual and based all their suppositions as to who was responsible on this
source as if it was undisputed evidence. The US, who has backed Poroshenko's military campaign
in Donetsk, have also added "unverified" accusations suggesting that they have seen BUK
missile launchers being spirited over the border back into Russia, suggesting that the Russian
military were directly involved in aiding the rebels to launch these SAM missiles and therefore
concluding that both the rebels and Russians are complicit.
On the other side, Russia has been quick off the mark to accuse the Ukrainians of downing
the plane implying that it was a false flag operation and have criticised the US for backing
Poroshenko's brutal assault of the rebel held east, which has made full use of air power
and has led to high levels of civilian casualties, which are largely ignored by the western
media. Obama and the US government are, according to Moscow, directly and indirectly responsible
for what has happened in Eastern Ukraine and the tragedy relating to flight MH17.
Accusations and counter accusations fly thick and fast and it would be disingenuous to
suggest that propaganda is not an element in these from all sides involved in the conflict.
Which brings me to the point that a responsible approach towards finding out what actually
happened with this tragic event can only be achieved by an independent investigation that
examines all the evidence and arrives at an objective conclusion. Until this happens, propaganda
sourced journalism, from whichever side in the conflict, should be taken for what it is,
namely, propaganda and speculation founded on prejudice and innuendo.
MarioCarbone Steben68, 19 July 2014 10:57am
Nothing can be or will be achieved.
This is on frontline and there isn't any security predispositions to do this.
Because you have sides in the war here, you can't find anybody that would be trusted
by all sides.
And finally what could land examination prove?
Obviouslly here is not question what did it but who did it and you can't come to answer
with plane observation.
Otherwise it is so, that on the plane was killed many people but on the land there were
killed many more. So actually separatist/ukraine/russian side is not so much in shock then
is the rest of the world.
It is like wake up call.
1. This ethnic Russians shouldn't be pusshed so hardlly
2. This plane shouldn't fly there.
ECXi97, 19 July 2014 10:38am
Why people say so-and-so (whichever side) is destroying evidence/covering this up/etc,
what do you mean? This crime is going to be solved because there is definitely data about
where the missile was fired from/trajectory because this is a major conflict area that will
have definitely been monitored by both the American and Russian military. In fact I don't
believe for one minute that Putin and Obama do not already know. So what can be covered
up?
fauxtronic ECXi97, 19 July 2014 10:43am
I'm surprised you need this clarifying, but here goes: Evidence is required to convict
people who commit crimes such as this in an international court. By removing and destroying
evidence, those who are implicated in this atrocity are reducing their chances of being
convicted.
ECXi97 fauxtronic, 19 July 2014 10:46am
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It's likely both sides already know who
was responsible so there is no incentive/way of covering anything up.
In all this is a clear US strategy. The Middle East must be one of the regions where large
regional war will begin. The Middle East is one of the front three large global war fronts.
Second Front - European. In Ukraine, the war has unleashed. It already include Poland,
the Baltic States (project "Rzeczpospolita -2 against Russia"), will not stand aside and
Russia.
Third Front - Pacific (Pacific frontier: the awakening of the spirit of the samurai in
Japan, the Pacific front taking shape). In the Asia-Pacific region to actively knock together
an anti-Chinese front, awaken Japanese samurai spirit. China loses remain cautious and more
frightening neighbors.
Fire in Eurasia should solve all the major problems of USA . First, the old European
aristocracy and power centers (Rome, the German-Romanesque aristocracy, Germany, France)
will be forced to join the future "Atlantic empire." Great War will allow the West to get
out of the systemic crisis with minimal losses, to solve the problem of huge debt load and
economy (the supply of weapons, equipment, ammunition, and after the war restoration of
damaged infrastructure).
Why is the Guardian (and all mainstream media) rushing to conclude that the Rebels did this?
Seems like propaganda.
I have no idea what really happened, but I know that unrest in Ukraine is very beneficial
to the US. Anything that prevents Russian gas being sold in Europe is support for the dollar.
The main pipelines run through Ukraine until Southstream is built.
They need to sell their shale/LNG to the rest of the world to prevent the US trade deficit
balooning and causing international dumping of UST's and possible dollar collapse.
Condi Rice explains the US intention very clearly (addressing Angela Merkel in this video):
"You want to change the structure of energy dependence. You want to depend more on
the North American energy platform, the tremendous bounty of oil and gas we are finding
… You want pipelines that don't go through the Ukraine and Russia. For years we have
tried to get the Europeans to be interested in different pipeline routes. Its time to
do that".
Everything in my post is factual. These facts taken together suggest that the USA has
much to gain from unrest in the Ukraine. Strange that the German media is so much more circumspect
than the angloidsphere.
Jennifer O'Toole RandolphHearst, 19 July 2014 11:28am
Admitted it ony by Kiev sources so you cant trust that one. the Kiev authorities are
covering up and its something really big, meanwhile the Kiev authorities continue to rain
down bombs on their own people the civilians in the Ukraine including those Russian speaking
Ukrainians, this is commonly known as murder but the West seem to be fast asleep on this
one, why is it because it doesn't fit their mindset?
hfakos FOARP, 19 July 2014 11:30am
List your evidence. You don't have any implicating either side with certainty. Wait for
the investigation.
theonionmurders JohntheLith, 19 July 2014 11:35am
It would be 'simplistic' to think that the Kiev regime wouldn't try to cause an international
incident so as to hasten sanctions toward Russia.
Kal El, 19 July 2014 10:51am
So, from reading the article, Kiev classes the "destruction of evidence" as taking away
bodies before they rot in the summer sun to a morgue.
Far from "destroying evidence" by taking bodies to a morgue they are actually "preserving"
evidence.
Yet another example of how whatever Kiev says is completely the other way around.
Oskar Jaeger Kal El, 19 July 2014 11:44am
The perpetrators are interfering with a crime scene, while not allowing access to international
observers.
RuStand Oskar Jaeger, 19 July 2014 1:38pm
OSCE:
"On the one hand, the bodies don't appear to have been tampered with. They're lying, it
seems, exactly where they fell," Mr. Borciurkiw said during an impromptu press conference
in a Donetsk hotel lobby."
"On the other hand, there's no one really on hand to move them, to identify them, to
put them in cold storage," he said. "So because of that, we observed early stages of decomposition
already"
So OSCE understands that there' s the need to put the bodies in cold storage. But you
keep parroting Kiev's propaganda - they literally write in their outlets that rebels 'have
stolen the bodies' ..
France Fradet, 19 July 2014 10:55am
This video from the Bloomberg website is interesting: a Jane's IHS weapons expert saying
it was 99% likely mistakenly shot down. The lives of the dead passengers are not an iota
more important than the lives of the dead on the ground or in Gaza, or of civilians anywhere
else. A dutch life is not more important than an Arab one. People baying for Putin's blood
should be baying for Netanyahu's too, and Obama's.
And I am amazed that no-one is thinking the BRICS are shaking off the petrodollar, and
Imperialists like H Clinton and Obama couldn't have had a better excuse to attempt to make
Russia a pariah state.
It is amazing how the USA can be so brazen as to stand up and point the finger so readily
at Russia. How many innocents have died as a result of it's use of missiles from drones
in Pakistan and Afghanistan? How many innocent Palestinians have to die as a result of it's
continuing support for and arming of Israel. These are current and ongoing slaughters and
the stars and
H17, we should not be afraid of saying so but we should not allow Obama to divert our attention
away from the mad bad policies that the USA and the western rightwing governments continue to
pursue.
Ahhbisto SimpleOldSailor, 19 July 2014 11:37am
If you listened carefully all Obama said was that US intelligence had evidence of a rocket
launch...and that is all he said. He was entirely non-judgemental, calm and rational. He called
for a thoroughand professional air-crash investigation to establish the facts.You however just
can't wait to spout off your 238th piece of anti-American rhetoric.
Solidarnosc, 19 July 2014 10:59am
The scramble among western leaders to make political capital out of this tragedy may ultimately
backfire quite badly.
neillwa, 19 July 2014 10:59am
The Ukrainian government has accused pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine of trying
to destroy evidence at the site where the Malaysia Airlines crashed ....
Malaysian transport minister Liow Tiong Lai says he believes Russia is trying to ensure
a safe route to the crash site.
Isn't it funny how Ukraine and the West are just finger pointing acting like children in
the school playground, while Russia and China are trying to get to on and help with the investigation
without making accusations.
regfromdagenham, 19 July 2014 11:00am
"Obama says destruction of MH17 is a 'wake-up call' for Europe"
The lessons Europe needs to learn:
1) U.S. intervention (foreign policy) normally ends in civil war for the country involved,
so don't get drawn in.
2) When a country has a democracy, let the results stand and wait for the next election.
The Ukraine would have had a democratic election one year after the Western backed Maiden coup.
3) Don't fly over war zones.
jiffery regfromdagenham, 19 July 2014 11:06am
You might consider that the USA, for all its many foreign policy faults, did not bring down
this airliner.
ElvisInWales jiffery, 19 July 2014 11:09am
Doesn't the same apply to Russia?
Blame games are just that, why not wait until we get some actual facts.
Would you convict someone on nothing more than hearsay?
IranCorrespondent, 19 July 2014 11:03am
US invests in a multi Billion Dollar hi-tech ability to spread lies and cover up the crimes
of their government all over the planet, but the whole world still knows they just murdered
ANOTHER plane load of people
sasha19 IranCorrespondent , 19 July 2014 11:07am
A link to such a statement?
regfromdagenham IranCorrespondent, 19 July 2014 11:07am
Considering the resources at their disposal the lies are are pretty abysmal.
the U.S. in Syria "We are drawing a line over the use of chemical weapons"
a few moments later:
The Assad regime has used chemical weapons and we have put the proof on YouTube.
What a coincidence!
Kal El, 19 July 2014 11:04am
LOL, the Ukrainian's aren't wanting much are they.
Separatists must put down their weapons, hand over control of the Ukr/Rus border (and allow
international access to the site).
In that case then, the plane is certainly NOT going to be recovered and an investigation
done because the Anti-Kiev forces won't agree to points 1 and 2.
Commentator6, 19 July 2014 11:05am
"Warwick's arrival at the scene came in the first few hours before there was any security
presence, and he believes he saw strong evidence that looting was already well underway."
"I noticed that I hadn't come across a single wallet with money, or a mobile phone or a camera.
They've all mysteriously gone missing."
It usually means a journalist has no credible evidence at all for an assertion beyond what
they believe to be true.
It also provides a neat 'get-out clause' if they are subsequently proven to be wrong.
"I noticed that I hadn't come across a single wallet with money, or a mobile phone or a camera.
They've all mysteriously gone missing."
Also, this makes no sense. Why should he 'come across money or wallets' when they are either
likely to be preserved if they remain in pockets or hand luggage? Notice he doesn't say that
he witnesses these thefts happen anywhere, he merely infers it.
Any that aren't secured this way are usually destroyed or lost on impact. This also begs
the question of why you would have your money or wallet unsecured during the flight anyway.
Also, if he comments on how bodies have been disfigured beyond recognition, why does he expect
passports, cameras and wallets to be fully intact and visible for all to see?
Paradoxically, he then bemoans the fact that no effort is being made to preserve the crash
site, only to later complain that the bodies have been left to decompose in the heat.
This is highly manipulated, shoddy journalism constructed to make a particular ideological
point and you two are naive enough to believe it.
Doolie, 19 July 2014 11:06am
The west has a long long history of arming political factions that suits the west's sick
agenda; Syria, Israel, Al Quaeda, Iran the list is very long.
The west has provided weapons to kill thousands of civilians, innocent civilians, civilians
who were as innocent as were those passengers on the MH flight.
But the death of western civilians on MH flight prompts people to a greater outrage than
the death of Palestinians and their children, killed by smart US missile weapons this week.
Christine63 Doolie, 19 July 2014 11:16am
No-one here is celebrating war nor death of innocents. The only people that do that are the
hard-liners who are directly involved, who seem to get a kick out of murdering innocent civilian
parties.
The issue here is that a band of separatist rebels, aided by Russia in apparently shooting
down a civilian jet with almost 300 people and children on board, and are now refusing to co-operate
in allowing the countries involved, to access the site and do what needs to be respectfully
done.
Doolie Christine63, 19 July 2014 1:00pm
If the USA had not promoted the initial unrest in the Ukraine and installed a puppet Nazi
as head of the regime; there would not be any fighting there at all. Russia didn't start this
mess, the West did.
This IS a now a war zone, it was idiotic of European authorities to allow flights over a
war zone airspace. A military plane was shot down only days ago. Does that sound like safe place
to take passenger flights through to you ?
SvQMedia, 19 July 2014 11:07am
I wonder what the Baroness Ashton thinks about all this...
unaszplodrmann SvQMedia, 19 July 2014 11:14am
I'm sure her conscience is very... resilient.
zvanrost, 19 July 2014 11:10am
"An air traffic controller, present in the Control Tower (Kiev) that controlled the flight
of the Malaysia Airlines flight that crashed on Thurday with 295 people on board points to Ukraine
and not the separatists as being responsible for the downing of the plane.
The controller, Carlos, who appears to be Spanish but based in Borispol, has tweeted the following:
"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was taken down
by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it
too (7.14)
As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of
the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00 pm)
If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few
minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)
The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar.
(5.48)
The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the
Ministry of Defense didn't. 7.15 pm)
Some days ago, on here, I said that the Kiev military wanted an excuse to get rid of the
current president. This could be it, and on Timoshenko's orders 7.36
The military confirnm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from.
7.31"
Christine63 zvanrost, 19 July 2014 11:23am
If the separatists didn't do it and the B777 was being 'escorted' by Ukraine jets, then the
black box recorders would prove this as the crew would had to have known.
So why were the black box recorders removed by the rebels and are apparently nowhere to be
found? Don't they want their innocence to be proven?
Trudi Goater, 19 July 2014 11:10am
The Malaysian minister has said that Russia is helping them and he has spoken to Putin. I'd
rather believe him than that twit from the Kiev Post
InternetDemocrats, 19 July 2014 11:10am
Why are we calling these morons "rebels"?
You know, when they're obviously sponsored by a foreign power.
What's "rebellious" about that?
ElvisInWales InternetDemocrats, 19 July 2014 11:17am
Sorry but the Syrian section is in the Middle east where your comment is better placed, as
good ol Blighty along with Uncy Sam and Aunt Hollande are sponsoring the war in Syria.
Nexusone InternetDemocrats, 19 July 2014 11:21am
Bit like the Neo Nazis in Kiev that are waging a genocidal war against ethnic Russians. Neo
Nazi thugs that were put in place by the perfidious Washington thugs. No nation should trust
the US Administration.
Ingelrild InternetDemocrats, 19 July 2014 11:27am
Is this like the neo-nazi, anti-semite pre-election 'rebels' in Kiev, sponsored by foreign
powers?
Jesus.
Kal El, 19 July 2014 11:11am
So, how many billions of dollars have been spent putting satellites into space, that then
can't even spot MH 370 flying around for hours, or see when a (supposed) missile hit MH 17.
What an absolute waste of money.
Seems for all their supposed on-board technology a "spy" satellite is ONLY any use if the
object is stationary and saying "cheese".
Starting from about noon today in the eastern US, the Russians have been sitting back
with a wide Cheshire grin, as oppose to the suspicious panic they had yesterday.
Old Ez posted a very interesting link upthread - I would say by far this is the most interesting
post on the thread.
This tells me two things. Yesterday, the Russians knew the plane had been shot down with
a SAM launched in Donbass, but they weren't sure immediately who had done it since they knew
that the DNR had Buk systems obtained from Ukraine that Russia may very well have helped make
recently operable. Today they were able to confirm to their own satisfaction that it was the
Ukrainian military that is the guilty party, whether out of sheer incompetence as with the Transsiberia
shoot down, or out of conspiratorial malice, which is my suspicion and likely theirs.
So today we see Russia rejecting the possibility of the black boxes being delivered to them
and saying Kiev should lead the investigation of this mess (in other words confidently sitting
back knowing they have a Royal Flush in their own military data as to exactly what happened),
blaming the Kiev MOD for having brought operational AA SAM systems in theater and pointedly
suggesting they were the origin point of the shoot down, and threatening to back up NAF with
military force in the event of further cross-border artillery provocations. Russia in other
words is sitting back and rolling with the western punches, confident that no matter what the
West and Ukraine try to spin and release as "the truth", they will be able to trump with leaks
of their own intelligence data that show exactly who did it from within the Ukraine military.
Western newspapers relying on CIA/NSA/DIA sources have leaked the sort of "primitive" intelligence
we might suspect the US to be capable of providing in this theater from satellites and whatever
assets it has in Turkey, the Black Sea, and elsewhere nearby and correctly concluded that a
missile was launched from the conflict area and not from Russia. If they have figured out more
than that, such as the specific launch location or system used, they haven't yet let on, and
I am not sure they would be able to get that specific..
Russia on the other hand not only has its own air defence radar and data systems immediately
adjacent to the crash site as opposed to hundreds of miles away, but also has the benefit that
the Ukrainian systems (both ATC and AA defense) were all formerly operationally linked with
Russia's, with the likelihood that book door access capability still exists into their operating
data, to say nothing of innumerable Russian agents with the SBU, military, and MIA able to provide
human intelligence, as well as of course direct access to NAF intelligence gathering. It is
therefore highly likely that Russia knows exactly where the missile was fired from, what Ukrainian
unit did it, and has a voice recording of the fire command and related crosstalk from Ukrainian
military coms and also from Kiev-Borispol and Dnipropetrovsk ATC.
In other words, Ukraine can spin all they want, but Russia is going to dribble the real truth
out slowly unless Ukraine will just man up and explain what happened to a candid world.
It was the west, with its media road show and fog machine, that hyped the Maidan as a huge groundswell
of popular opinion, a "people's uprising", even though it attracted far smaller crowds than the
Orange Revolution. It was the west who whipped the protests into violence, shouting loudly that
Yanukovych must get his police off the streets and let the peaceful protesters have their way even
as they were heaving bricks and gasoline bombs and seizing control of public buildings.
Here's what EU Foreign Policy Chief Ashton had to say about the heroic crowd on the Maidan:
"I was among you on Maidan in the evening and was impressed by the determination of Ukrainians
demonstrating for the European perspective of their country". Here's what she said about Yanukovych's
brutality toward protesters: "Dialogue with political forces and society and the use of arguments
is always better than the argument of force." Things changed a little bit once the EU and USA
maneuvered Poroshenko into the driver's seat, and those in the east who did not want to recognize
his dominion over them were not protesters; no, Lady Ashton and her doppelgänger in physical ugliness,
U.S, Secretary of State John Kerry
agreed that
they were "pro-Russian separatists", while Ukraine – which had already moved against them in
full military strength in direct contravention of the Ukrainian constitution and international law
– had "shown remarkable restraint". Fuck dialogue and the use of arguments: force rocks!!
Around the same time, the Estonian Foreign Minister
confided to Ashton
suspicions that the snipers who had indiscriminately shot both protesters and police from rooftops
around Maidan had acted on the behest of the Ukrainian opposition, to sort of spur things along
to mindless rioting. Ashton's response will go down in history: "I think we do want to investigate.
I mean, I didn't pick that up, that's interesting. Gosh." Investigation of the matter since?
Zip. Zero. Nothing. Dropped like a hot stone. Apparently upon further examination, it was all the
way across town from "interesting".
Mr. Bilak apparently agrees with the might-makes-right approach; he reserved especial disappointment
for Germany's Angela Merkel, for her statement that "Ukraine should start immediate bilateral
negotiations with the terrorists rampaging through the Donbas."
Said terrorist body consisting, according to Mr. Bilak, of "marauding, fragmented bands of
10,000 Chechen fighters and Russian mercenaries, Donbas criminals, drug addicts, and other marginals".
What a long, rough way we have come from the nobility of "Ukrainians demonstrating for the European
perspective of their country". It must be disappointing for a professional military force made up
of genetically-acceptable Ukrainians to get its ass kicked by drug addicts, criminals and marginals.
Although perhaps he is not exactly sure of the composition of the opposing force, since he offers
no evidence whatsoever to support his allegations, and all evidence offered thus far of state-sponsored
Russian participation has been discredited. No use holding talks, anyway, says Bilak, with terrorists
who are too busy shooting up the towns they hold to negotiate. The deliberate obfuscation and ignorance
of this statement is breathtaking; there is no evidence that any property damage at all accrues
to the federalists, while it is the indiscriminate shelling by the Ukrainian army which has reduced
towns like Slaviyansk to rubble.
But beneath the all-seeing Eye Of Bilak, the situation for the bloodthirsty saboteurs of Ukraine's
destiny is simple; when the glorious forces of the Unified Ukraine prevail, the Ukrainians among
the defenders will be tried as terrorists, while the Russians fleeing for the safety of their evil
empire will be shot by Russian border guards.
But it didn't have to be this way. Putin could stop the entire conflict in its tracks, just by
waving his evil talon. This would "cut off the flow of funds, tanks, weapons and mercenaries
from Russia and to secure his side of the Ukrainian-Russian border."
But he won't do that unless the EU stops dicking around and applies some serious sanctions.
As if that were not enough rubbish, the garbage truck and the road completely part company at
this point. According to Mr. Bilak, "On Monday, Ukraine claimed a Russian fighter jet or one
of Russia's new rockets shot down a Ukrainian air force plane from inside Russian territory (based
on the fact that no side on Ukraine's territory has weaponry that could reach that height)."
Sure you want to stick with that story, Daniel? Because the downing yesterday of MH-17 was responded
to by Samantha Power at the UN with
a storm of frothy and rabid invective which included the contention that according to the official
United States position, the Ukrainian "pro-Russian separatists" have vehicle-mounted air defence
missile systems practically falling out their ass – among them the SA-11 Buk. The
aircraft shot down on Monday was an AN-26, at an altitude of 21,000 ft. MH-17 was following
an airlane at 33,000 ft; 12,000 ft higher than the AN-26, although the international community is
sure it was shot down by the "pro-Russia separatists" using Russian-supplied weaponry. Ukraine has
the Buk as well, of course, but Ukraine also said at one time that the rebels did not have any.
The plane crashed far enough from the Russian border that it would have been out of range of a Buk
fired from Russia at the moment it was hit. So…what happened? There is absolutely no doubt that
Ukraine has a weapon which could reach that altitude, the aircraft would have been out of range
from Russia, and you just got done saying the "pro-Russia separatists" didn't have a weapon which
could reach that high. That only leaves one contender.
We'll let you off that one, Daniel, because you plainly know as much about gaseous compounds
on Venus as you do about air defense systems. And that ignorance is just as plainly not confined
simply to air defense systems, as he goes on in the next paragraph to blabber that Russian tanks
and artillery poured over the border this past weekend vand advanced three kilometers into Ukraine.
That sounds like an invasion to me. Got any pictures? Nope. Any evidence at all? Nope. Just alarmist
twaddle to stir up the red-meat crowd.
Who the hell is Daniel Bilak, you may be wondering. As was I. According to the one-line bio at
the bottom of this tapestry of mendacious blather, he is "an advisor to the Governor of Donetsk
Oblast". The absentee governor, that'd be, who was appointed by Kiev to run the restive region and
has since fled after being driven out. But that's not the end of the Daniel Bilak story; no, indeed.
He's also the managing partner
at CMS Cameron McKenna LLC in Kiev, and has extensive experience advising clients on legal risk
in international oil and gas development, among other things. Between 1995 and 2006 he was a senior
United Nations Development Program governance expert, and has also been General Counsel for Emtec,
a Canadian high-tech. Except for his rudimentary schooling, he was educated in Canada at McGill
University, Montreal. He is an internationalist who is about as Ukrainian as a hockey stick. I don't
know where he learned to make up shit like that, but I devoutly hope it was not Montreal.
Here's a tip, Dan, for free. Stick to lying about how many women you've slept with and how big
the fish you catch are. Men at least will be willing to let those pass without comment, because
everybody lies about those.
From comments: "But what about the US? Do they really think that relations with Russia will
return to normal at some point in the near future after all this? Do they now think (or don't care any
more) that they simply can do without Russia's role in international fora and problem solving in various
conflicts around the world?"
I've just been listening to Obama's speech on MH17 and am now pretty much convinced this
is a black op. Obama himself sort of gives the game away when he said something along the
lines of "this is a wake-up call for Europe'. So, what have we here? The US has been
trying for months to get Europe on board in draconian sanctions against Russia but while European
governments are willing to talk the talk (or, rather, echo American bellicosity), they're not
willing to walk the walk. This culminated a few days ago when nine European leaders came out
against further sanctions leaving the US alone in its decision to impose sectoral sanctions.
Now, what do we have? A plane from an Asian airline whose passenger list is largely European,
going down in East Ukraine. While virtually no facts whatsoever are yet known, the whole western
MSM goes into propaganda overdrive – Putin dunit – while Obama at his most patrician, speaks
of the need to wait for evidence but apart from those six words, spends the rest of the speech
making it clear that Putin dunit.
Meanwhile, at the UN, Churkin single-handedly had to fend off a pack, there's no other word
for it, of western representatives shouting that Putin dunit.
Can anyone spot a pattern here? Is there any doubt that Russia is being fitted up with the
purpose of removing European objections to draconian sanctions?
If this is a black op, the flight was not randomly chosen. It's no accident that
it happened to have 100+ researchers into HIV on board en route to a conference in Australia.
Not just a waste of life but a waste of lives devoted to helping others. The cynicism is breathtaking.
And can anyone explain how so many undamaged passports were collected together so quickly for
display to the media?
Interesting, if this was genuine Black Op designed to snitch up Russia and pressurize the
European into agreeing to tougher sector based sanctions, the why choose a Malaysian non-European
airliner? Yes the MH17 had a predominantly European passenger list, however wouldn't a European
airliner like KLM, Lufthansa, Air France, etc been a better target and better for propaganda
purposes?
The Netherlands has one of the EU countries has consistently been reluctant to increase sanctions
against Russia, and even opposed Poland's hysterical demand that NATO forces should be deployed
to Poland.
The Western media is in full propaganda blast mode, Western politicians especially from the
Anglosphere are all choreographed to blame Russia and force Europe to confront Russia on the
Anglosphere's behalf.
Warren, take down a western airliner and you generate too much interest and scrutiny from
that country which might prove unhelpful. Lots of tiresome relatives who won't let the matter
drop bringing political pressure on the government of that country. A non-western airline but
on a flight with a lot of Europeans on board is a better bet, particularly when that airline
has had one hinky incident in the recent past.
I'm sure the US has a bone to pick with Malaysia for having hosted war tribunals in Kuala
Lumpur, the first of which (held in 2011) found George W Bush and Tony Blair guilty of war crimes
in Iraq; the second (2012) finding Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonazales, John
Yoo, David Addington and William Haynes II of conspiracy to commit war crimes after hearing
testimony from people tortured in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo prisons; and the third (2013) finding
the State of Israel guilty of genocide against Palestinians, and one Israeli army general guilty
of war crimes for his involvement in the Sabra and Shatila massacre in 1982 when the Israeli
army encircled a refugee camp and allowed Lebanese Christian Phalangists to enter and butcher
people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_War_Crimes_Commission
Was in a four day trip and now catching up the recent events.
1. Seps started to gain momentum and Uki forces suffered great losses and had to withdrew.
2. Civilian plane with 300 people was shot down in the Donetsk airspace.
3. Seps are blaming the junta and the junta is blaming the seps and Russia.
4. The Western world is, naturally, blaming seps and Russia.
5. Junta gained from the horrible tragedy.
6. Seps and Russia were the big propaganda losers from this tragedy.
7. Either the seps unintentionally or the junta intentionally shot down the plane.
Even if, as is likely, the Ukrainian military shot down the plane, it's still more likely
they did it 'unintentionally'. I mean that in the sense that they thought it was an enemy aircraft.
When you put dubiously-trained crews in a combat zone after feeding them ridiculous propaganda
about a Russian invasion, and an unidentified aircraft unexpectedly appears in their sector,
this is the sort of thing that's likely to happen.
I still wouldn't blow off the theory that they thought it was Putin, however unlikely;
the colour scheme of the two planes is uncannily alike, and if there were Ukrainian aircraft
in the vicinity at the time (alleged but not proven) they may have been on-scene only to make
a visual ID before firing. I'd give a lot to hear the communications from those planes if they
actually were there. There are a lot of airliners still transiting that area, and visual ID
would be the only way to be sure of the right target. I don't think it was in any way unintentional,
and I think the planners are just adapting to the circumstances as best they can. Whatever the
intent was, it is fast turning into a full-court press seeking outrage and calls for war.
Published on 17 Jul 2014
I have to say, They were gonna fool a whole lot of people with this one! Thankfully, they have
been caught!
The Ukraine Government supported a youtube clip that they say proves Russia had involvement
and that Rebels shot down Malaysia Flight MH17. However, Due to their sloppy work, They have
been caught! They have since tried to delete the file, but not before it was downloaded over
800 times! More info at links!
Exactly what I've been thinking, Southerncross. Dead men tell no tales – if Kiev was responsible,
those with knowledge of what happened are probably not long for this world.
If the Ukes really did have the fake tape created on July 16, then this implies they were
planning to attack a commercial airliner. They had no way of knowing their attack would succeed
– sometimes things don't work out the way they are planned. They might not have even known which
particular day the attack would occur.
However, they might have just been holding the tape ready to go, just in case they succeeded
– which they did.
Then they would have hastily uploaded the already-prepared tape; but some moron forgot to
change the timestamp on the creation date.
If you get the sense that this has all happened before, or was meant to happen before, you're
probably right. Remember Operation Northwoods, back in the sixties?
Option 8: 8. "It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that
a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United
States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama, or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to
cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students
off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled
flight.
a.An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil
registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated
time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with
the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered
aircraft would be converted to a drone.
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow
a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will
descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements
will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status.
The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the
drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating
he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction
of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations
in the Western Hemisphere to tell the United States what has happened to the aircraft instead
of the United States trying to "sell" the incident."
When your foreign policy guardians make up convoluted and shamelessly self-interested plans
like this, it should later be unsurprising that people suspect your motives whenever there is
an unexplained incident.
Sounds like one conspiracy theory I've heard about United Airlines Flight 93 on 11 September
2001 in which the passengers were all transferred to another flight that took them to Ohio.
"…RT, the Kremlin-funded English-language propaganda channel, even suggested that the missile
may have actually been targeted at Mr Putin's personal Il-96 jet.
Such claims were "the straw that broke the camel's back for me" for RT's London correspondent,
Sara Firth, who resigned from the channel in protest at its coverage.
"I resigned from RT today," she tweeted. "I have huge respect for many in the team, but I'm
for the truth." "
--
Snap. Just like
Liz Wahl's dramatic on-air resignation from RT, which was known at least 20 minutes in advance
of the "spontaneous event" and probably longer, and featured the steering of rainbow-suspenders,
me-and-my-Jewish-boyfriend gayboy Russophobe Jamie Kirchik. Ms. Wahl's name has been forgotten
now to all but neocon activists, and her big flounce-out was over gay rights, which are not
even on the mainstream radar (just as I said at the time would be the case) since they failed
to achieve their goal, which was to derail the Sochi Olympics.
All part of the wool-pulling-over-the-eyes plan in this next act of deception by the west
as it continues to batter at the ramparts of Russian resolve and try to drag it into a reaction
which can be reacted to with righteous rage.
"…Authorities in Kiev say two men have been captured near the border on the Ukrainian side,
according to reports, one of whom had paperwork indicating he was a missile specialist…"
Now you need a documents-carrying missile specialist to fire a Buk? A missile system designed
to be fired by conscripts? The surest sign of a false-flag scam is the amount of convenient
evidence which surfaces immediately afterward. Look how long "Kenny-Boy" Lay got away with his
fiscal shenanigans at Enron before the whole thing collapsed, despite the mountain of evidence
that did not surface until the collapse although it was years in the making.
If it is verified that Ukranian Air Force fighters were near the airliner before hand then
that looks like a possible scenario that Kiev had decided to set up. We've heard nothing from
the Spanish ATC guy in Kiev since his twitter was shut down/blocked. Most of the major media
channels have ignore it too and are still pushing the fake telephone intercepts with the wrong
date stamps etc.
I wonder how close the fighters got because if they got within visual range then there would
be a chance that someone would have taken a photo – the same with the flight voice recorder
which would then have been remarked upon.
A single aircraft by itself, at altitude (flying significantly higher than the earlier An-26
artillery spotter plane that was shot down – i.e. it had to fly lower to see targets clearly
enough) would not have attracted any suspicion considering that airliners were continuing to
fly that route.
Flying two fighter aircraft in the same vicinity would change that calculation and lend suspicion
that it was a high value asset, maybe a specialist military aircraft such as some sort of SIGNIT
aircraft, possibly from a NATO country. Maybe that was the intention. to deliberately draw a
missile. Re the KAL007 shoot down in 1983, a USAF SIGNIT 'Cobra Ball' had been flying in near
by airspace only an hour before KAL007 flew off course and entered soviet airspace of the Kamchatka
peninsula.
I don't quite see how a uke fighter shooting it down works though as forensic and expert
evidence would show that it was an air-to-air missile that did it, not a much larger missile
from a BUK. It would only make sense if the US would be able to push Europe in to action very
fast before the full facts are uncovered. They certainly are pushing right now (Hilary, Samantha
'career genocide expert' Power, and Total Fruitcake McCain for starters).
But as we know, facts are irrelevant the the war crowd who will jump on anything, however
slim, and twist it in such a way that they will use it to punish whomever they wish. In the
West they have done this over and over again to justify everything from invasions and bombing
campaigns to sanctions. Now that is true evil.
But what about the US? Do they really think that relations with Russia will return to
normal at some point in the near future after all this? Do they now think (or don't care any
more) that they simply can do without Russia's role in international fora and problem solving
in various conflicts around the world?
We can see that Hilary is setting herself up as a 'Hawk' for the upcoming US presidential
election so that the Republican neocon crazies will not be able to accuse her of being as limp-wristed
as Obama. Hilary is not in government so she does not have to really pay any consequences for
what she says – the same is true of anyone in opposition.
Frankly, it's impossible as an outsider to be accurate, but what we can expect is that any
information that does not chime with a simple story pumped by the pro-American crowd will either
continue to be totally ignored, brushed off or ridiculed. The consensual media will play ball.
These people don't give a shit that 300 people died, only how they can use it.
Maybe he got cold feet after the airplane was downed? No matter who did it. The seps will
be blamed nonetheless. Maybe Pushilin calculated that it is better to quit now than continue?
I don't believe Pushilin's resignation has much to do with the airline disaster.
This was actually in the works for some time. In fact, I have a comment somewhere above (I
don't remember where) on the political wheelings and dealings within the Novorossiya political
parties. This was a few days before the airline crash, and that event has obviously trumped
everything else, at least for a while..
Basically, in the Novorossiya political cauldron, there are winners and losers.
Winner include Strelkov; losers include Borodai, Pushilin and (by implication) their Kremlin
sponsor Kurgin'an.
I have been reading at news and comment sections in Finland. Finland is one of the most russophobic
countries in the world, but the current vile hatred towards Russia is something that I have
never witnessed in my life.
(Finnish media is also brutally censoring any pro-Russian comments right now. I tried to
send three different comments in civilized language to Helsingin Sanomat comment section. All
of them were pre-censored. I didn't see many other pro-Russian comments there either so apparently
they are censoring all pro-Russian comments there.)
Shooting down that civilian plane was a struck of evil genius by the West.
1. It greatly further discredited the resistance forces of Novorussia.
2. It greatly further demonized Russia. Mainstream media is having a field day and comment sections
are filling from comments which many basically demand to "destroy" Russia.
3. It gives NATO a causus belli to directly get involved in Ukraine.
4. It will be a lot more pressure to the EU to isolate Russia.
5. It installed a great deal of hatred towards Russia among the general western population.
If you look at this terror act purely strategically it was just genius. Evil but genius.
After seeing all this hatred and rage towards Russia I am confident that we will see a war
in my lifetime. My generations (I'm in my 30s) of Finns and younger absolutely hate Russia.
This is not an understatement. In comparison most of young Finns were cheering when the USA
invaded Iraq. We have chosen our side. We will always back the enemy of Russia whether it was
Nazi Germany or the United States. This is a feature that can never be changed. Finland is and
will always be hostile towards Russia and do it's part to weaken/destroy Russia when given a
chance.
Russia should prepare for a war. Both military and economic war. The West is out to get Russia.
The shooting of the airplane is an escalation of the warfare against Russia. They want to split
Russia into several parts. They want to remove Russia's nuclear weapons. They want to destroy
any industry that is in Russia (especially the arms industry). They want to fully control Russian
oil and gas (and transfer the profits out of Russia). They want to make Russian people poor
and miserable. They want to humiliate Russia. They hate Russia and they want to see bad things
happen to it. They eventually want to make Russian people extinct and have an empty land full
of natural riches and resources. This is what they want.
What should Russia do?
Hopefully the Russian leadership finally realizes what kind of people it is facing. These
are murderous, totally amoral and extremely powerful and intelligent enemies. They are not Russian
partners. They are enemies. So stop calling them partners and call them what they are, enemies.
Also,
Stop sending your children to western schools (yes, I'm looking at you Sergei Lavrov).
Stop sending your money to western banks.
Stop buying western real estate.
Stop going to West as tourists.
Stop buying western made products unless it is absolutely necessary
Get rid of the oligarchs (at least those who transfer money out of Russia)
Stop destroying your chemical and nuclear weapons arsenal!!! Whatta hell is Russia doing
anyway? Russia needs all of it's stock of WMD right now.
Increase your support to Novorussian resistance forces.
Russia cannot retreat anymore since an open warfare has been declared against it.
Right now I am not sure that Russia is strong enough to face the coming assault (media, economic,
terrorist and military assault).
The 20th century killed too many Russians. Especially the best Russians. The Bolsheviks persecuted
and murdered hundreds of thousands of Russian nobility, industrialists, farmers etc. People
who were the best and brightest of the nation.
Then came the civil war and a great famine of between 1918 and 1925. Again, millions of people
killed.
Then came the Great Patriotic War. It was a great victory for the nation, but again almost
30 million people killed. Most of them young. The bravest young men were sacrificed in the front
against the Nazis. This had to be done to save the country, but the cost was astronomical.
Then came the breakup of the country in 1991 after decades of failed economic policies and
pure idiocy (like supporting Eastern European nations that hate Russia with free oil and gas).
After the breakup of the country again millions of best and brightest of the Russians emigrated,
left the country. Another huge loss of human capital. Russia was split in many parts. Russia
was separated from the Baltics, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Russia lost whole industries
and valuable ports to these new independent countries.
Russia HAD the potential to become the most powerful country on the earth that also can provide
it's population with a good standard of living. That potential existed in 1914 before Russia
entered the First World War.
After that it has been a big catastrophe after another for the country. These catastrophes
ate the resources and the potential of the country and made it's gene pool worse. Russia did
achieve many great things (winning the war against the Nazis, putting the first man to space,
developing a nuclear weapon) but in a long run the costs were too high for the country. Those
catastrophes had weakened Russia too much for it to be able to compete against the United States
and Western Europe who never faced such catastrophes and enriched themselves with imperialist
colonial policies and slave labor. Eventually the Soviet Union collapsed because it didn't have
the capacity to compete.
The West sees Russia as a land full of resources that is occupied by people who must be removed.
Russia has only one thing going for itself, the nukes. The nuclear weapon is the best thing
that has happened to Russia since 1945. It has enabled Russia to last to this day.
Hi, Karl, I am just curious. (This is a friendly comment, please don't take it the wrong
way.)
I am just curious, on a psychological level, why you are different in your views from the majority
of Finns of your generation?
What were your formative experiences?
You don't need to reply, but I would be happy if you do.
While agreeing with your assessment of the intentions of the Western sociopaths class toward
the Slavic Orthodox civilization, your obsession regarding a claimed genetic deficiency in the
Slavic people is tiresome, offensive and without basis.
The Finnish hatred certainly includes a purported Russian genetic inferiority so is it not
likely that you have simply adopted such as a core belief? Your monologue about the best and
brightest either being murdered or fleeing Russia leaving nothing but human scum behind would
be well accepted among Nazis and racists in any country.
You are proposing some sort of reverse natural selection where the mentally weak and physically
deficient survive while the superior DNA dies or runs. Truly a unique theory. Yet, as pointed
out earlier and unrefuted by you, genetically inferior Russian kids born in the late 90′s and
early 00′s kick the butts of your oh-so-superior Western kids in math and science. Please offer
an explanation.
Yalensis had a similar question but I add to it regarding your belief that Russian are profoundly
damaged humans yet you seem to have a genuine concern over their fate. Something does not add
up.
Ok, I decided to make a dedicated post to this Skillt moron. Mark said:
***
Ummmm….is Mr. Skillt aware that eastern Ukrainians are white? And that shooting white people
is an ineffective technique for ensuring the survival of the "white race"?
***
Mikael Skillt is a moron and an enemy of nationalism. How, you might ask. He's fighting alongside
Nazis, for a Nazi regime. No way he's an enemy of nationalism then! One would think that people
like him are better informed regarding the eclipse of the European nation states and the Anglosphere.
Unfortunately, Mr. Skillt has a primitive understanding of the realities. He thinks of Russia
in terms of the Soviet Union, i.e. communist, and 'connect the dots' that this is the same communism
that is destroying his native Sweden.
In March of this year, after the coup took place, the author of the above pieces wrote an
article dealing with Ukraine: …[T]his praise of Ukrainian nationalism by Brzezinski is odd coming from someone who has
spent decades, since his days as a young academic, condemning nationalism and asserting that
international capitalism, founded upon a globalist elite that transcends territorial borders,
is the next phase of historical evolution in a dialectical process. Brzezinski does not even
believe in "independent nationhood." He believes that it is passé.[10] However it is the line
followed by all the other mouthpieces of globalization, including the USA and the E.U., and
all the pontificators at the United Nations, who are condemning Russia and upholding this "Ukrainian
nationhood." None, of course, are champions of nationalism, which they regard as anathema. It
is another means of undermining Russia as the primary state that remains in the way of the "brave
new world," or the "new world order" as it has been called. Hence, "nationalism" is only used
as a dialectical strategy as part of a globalist agenda.
Brzezinski also alludes to what is the real bugbear of the globalists: the fear that Russia
will lead a Eurasian bloc which, we might add, would also find allies across the world, from
India, to Venezuela to Syria;[11] hence the simultaneous actions against the latter two states,
fomented by the same forces that are backing the situation in the Ukraine. Brzezinski, as a
principal spokesman for the globalists, talks of an "expansion of Europe." Brzezinski openly
states that the globalists want the Ukraine to be part of the E.U. as the start of a process
that will integrate Russia also. He states that this is the wave of the future, and that a Russia-led
"Eurasian union" will fail. However, if the E.U. represented a truly independent third force,
it would have been targeted as avidly by the globalists as Russia and the previous Soviet bloc.
Unfortunately, the E.U. has not emerged as a third force, but as an appendage of U.S. foreign
policy, and its position on the present Ukraine situation is yet another example of this.
http://www.counter-currents.com/2014/03/geopolitics-and-oligarchy-in-the-ukraine-crisis/
Does this "European Union", whose capitol Brussels is on the verge of becoming minority European,
truly represent "Europe" that the Maidanites want so badly to be part of? Isn't an European
Union without Europeans worthless? In a sense, isn't Ukraine more European than France,
Belgium and England - demographically and geographically? Or is this Europeanness an abstrat
idea, a social construct? The EU, the media and the Zionists want you to think so. Just like
they tell us that America is historically a 'proposition nation' devoid of any ethnic or religious
core (an idea advanced by Jews, which is, for most of the country's existence until 1965, patently
false. Look no further than the
first immigration
law passed by the Framers soon after the Declaration of Independence and of the American
demographics and immigration laws until 1965).
Look at the demographics of the post-Soviet states in Europe.
Now look at the demographics of the "free West".
Draw your own conclusion. Did the Zionist Anglo-American bloc or the Russian-led bloc preserve
the demographics better? Save for the historic gypsy population of some eastern European countries,
the demographics are still continental European.
Meanwhile, Mohammed (and its variations) is the most common name for babies born in London.
The English are a dying people and are expected to become a minority in England before 2050.
This figure, 2050, is very optimistic, 2040 is a more realistic date. The European French are
<80% of the population and the babies born the last year are up to 35% minority. This is a ticking
demographic bomb. Note that I said "European French", so here other European nationalities besides
the native ethnic French are included as well.
The Netherlands, England, West Germany (East is still amazingly European), Italy, Spain,
Portugal, now Ireland (things are changing really fast in Ireland, for some reason the economically
fragile country is being flooded by poorly skilled immigrants from Africa and the Middle East
for the sake of displacement), Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Austria. These countries have been part
of the 'free West' since the end of WWII. They all share self-hatred, a vicious media, an education
system controlled by Trotskyites and they are all on the way to becoming minority-majority.
What about the 'authoritarian' east? Bulgaria, Croatia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Serbia,
Hungary, Romania, Ukraine(!), Slovakia, Czech Republic, Moldova etc, are not suffering the genocidal
policies of the 'free West' post-WWII because they were ruled by the Soviet Union (Russia) until
1991. They 'missed' the 1945-91 period of social engineering of Critical Theory, white privilege,
self-hatred, pseudo-humanism and other anomalies - all the products of Trotskyism (Jewish activism)
imported/exported from America.
This Mikael Skillt is not a nationalist. He's a thug attracted to violence. His native country
is a huge mess.
That the 'West' goes to great length in suppressing the opposition to racial replacement
and expressions of racial solidarity, including with laws that can deprive you of your liberty
for speaking heretical views, and that in Ukraine they do a 180 and instigate the Ukrainians
to hate brotherly Slavs, undisguisable from ethnic Ukrainians, is a testimony to the evil nature
of this 'Western' elite. Stoking hatred between Europeans, suppressing the hatred between Europeans
and non-Europeans whilst displacing them and eventually doing away with their very existence.
Pierce wrote a fictional book "The Turner Diaries" under the pseudonym Andrew MacDonald.
However Pierce never advocated violence, I use to listen to his broadcasts American Dissident
Voices and read the transcripts on NatVan/NatAll.com from 2000 to 2002 when he died.
Pierce, was a true intellectual, commenting on current affairs, providing analysis and
exposing the Zionist power structure in the US. Every year he and his comrades in the National
Alliance would publish report detailing who owns US media companies.
Kevin MacDonald has the same facts based cerebral approach of William Pierce in documenting
and exposing the Zionist power structure.
MacDonald reminds me of Pierce in so far as the sincere discussion of taboo subjects is concerned.
Mearsheimer and Walt discuss the power of the Zionists in directing American foreign policy.
Internal policies pursued by the lobby are not touched upon. Mearsheimer and Walt are moderate
critics of the lobby, and so is MacDonald. The former exposes the foreign policy, and the latter
the internal policy.
Pierce is more of a Bobby Fischer in his approach to Jews.
Although it's a heretical.com link, the review was originally published in the American Renaissance
magazine.
Kevin MacDonald was a leftist student during the 60s counter-culture revolution. He later
changed, and I don't think he has much in common with the late William Pierce. MacDonald still
teaches at the university, but he and the university staff are constantly harassed by the SPLC.
This harassment includes many failed attempts at getting him fired. Pierce, a physics professor,
stopped teaching in the 60s:
I have never read 'The Turner Diaries' that southerncross mentions below, even though I do
know about its existence. I did read some scripts from Pierce's many radio broadcasts. He was
clearly radical.
Btw, recently the SPLC came up with a new schtick to attack 'the man': border vigilant.
Guess who it's aimed at? Why, at anyone who thinks the US must follow
Today, a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet carrying 295 people was shot down - allegedly by
pro-Russia separatists - in eastern Ukraine, dramatically changing the scope of Ukraine's months-long
conflict.
On Wednesday, VICE News correspondent Simon Ostrovsky spoke to US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey
Pyatt, who said he has no doubt Russia is arming the separatists, effectively encouraging the
escalation of the fighting.
It was the day the Russia-Ukraine crisis went global, claiming the lives of nearly 300 people
from at least 12 nations spanning across five continents.
Details are still emerging about the downing of a Malaysian Airlines passenger jetliner in
eastern Ukraine on July 17, apparently by a surface-to-air missile.
But the circumstantial evidence is mounting - and appears to point to separatist culpability.
And what had been a localized conflict has suddenly, and dramatically, become a major threat
to international security.
Will the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 be a game changer in the months-long
conflict between Russia and Ukraine? And if so, how?
On the latest Power Vertical Podcast, I discuss this issue with Mark Galeotti, a professor
at New York University, an expert on Russia's security services, and author of the blog "In
Moscow's Shadows;" and Kirill Kobrin, editor of the Moscow-based history and sociology magazine
"Neprikosnovenny zapas."
This is interesting.
Vice President of Malaysian Airlines, whose name, for some reason is called "Heib the Gorter"
gave a press conference in Amsterdam, in which he stated the following:
According to the flight plan, the plane was supposed to fly at 10.66 km. However, Ukrainian
dispatchers requested the plane fly lower, at 10.05 km.
Presumably this lower altitude would have made the plane more vulnerable to attack from the
ground.
"Cui Bono?" is the classic question which those days are never asked by Western MSM, let alone Investigated
. Junta gained from the horrible tragedy. Seps and Russia were the big propaganda losers from this tragedy.
Earlier, when we
commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before
coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one
should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan,
why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control
give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"
The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording
from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of
flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.
It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the
BBC reports "Ukraine's
SBU security
service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers
and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of
getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may
have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.
It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and
getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black
box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From
the Independent ....
Yesterday, we
laid out extensively what the official Ukrainian case was when it came to "proof" that Russian
separatists had launched the Buk missile which allegedly took down flight MH-17; we also highlighted
several glaring inconsistencies and questions that still remained open after the "incriminatory"
YouTube clip release. So far, any international response has been muted to this hastily prepared
evidence of Russian involvement, although the day is still young.
So what about the Russian side? Below we present the key arguments made by Russia to suggest
that not it, but Ukraine, was responsible for taking down the Malaysian Boeing.
As
reported earlier by RIA, the Russian Defense Ministry says it had intercepted the activity of
a Ukrainian radar system on the day the Malaysian plane went down in eastern Ukraine, the ministry's
press service said Friday.
"Throughout the day on July 17, Russian means of radar surveillance intercepted the operation
of the Buk-M1 battery's Kupol radar station located in the region of the populated area of Styla
[30 kilometers south of Donetsk]," the press service said in a statement.
"The technical capabilities of the Buk-M1 allow the exchange of data on air targets between batteries
of one battalion. Thus, the launch of rockets could have also occurred from any of the batteries
deployed in the populated area of Avdeevka [8 kilometers north of Donetsk] or from Gruzsko-Zoryanskoe
[25 kilometers east of Donetsk]," the ministry said.
Latina Lover
Memo from NWO:
You mean Russians will be allowed to give their side of the story?
This cannot be allowed. We need WW3 to reputiate national debts and kill off the useless
eaters. How else are we going to convince the sheeple to commit mass suicide while we get even
richer?
Gaius Frakkin' ...
Isn't it interesting how Russian state media presents precise details and facts while USSA
state media whips up vague generalizations appealing to emotion.
BaBaBouy
The Big QUESTION IS: Who Sent That Doomed Plane Over The Center Of THE WAR ZONE ?????
Its The At THe Heart Of This Tradgedy AND Pretty Fucking Clear...
One Wonders, Is Anyone Sending A Civil Plane To Fly Over GAZA Today???
pods
I got a question, we killed like a million non-combatants in Iraq, why is 300 dead here a
big deal?
I mean, it sucks, but in the big scheme of things we (the US for all those arguers) probably
kills this many innocents in a month RIGHT NOW.
pods
nope-1004
You're right, it's not a big deal in reality but in the media it is because the picture being
painted is one of a radical Russian gov't that shot down a civilian airliner. US media is playing
with your emotions. In Iraq the picture painted was some wonderful freedom fighting Merikans
liberating a nation of its oil.... I mean, dictator.
"Humanitarian efforts" always make people back a movement, even if the underlying reasons
(oil, USD reserve status) are not fully disclosed.
CognacAndMencken
I'm really astonished how the utopian libertarians in the comments section of ZeroHedge are
such ardent supporters of Russia's newest dictator. You guys bash/hate America, the western
economic system, American workers, American corporations - basically everything American - and
you guys LOVE Putin. Serious MAN-crush. I remember a ZH article about Putin some time ago showing
pictures of Putin with guns and hunting and doing sporting events, and you guys were LUSTING
after him. *LOL* Unreal. Who would have ever guessed that libertarians would sympathize with
Russian dictators? A few years ago at ZH, this was unheard of.....
angel_of_joy
ZH readers still have a somewhat reasonable amount of common sense, and like to think with
their own brains regardless what media is force feeding them.
Which is not something that can be said about you, for one thing... Too much cognac, I
Herd Redirection Committee
In the Putin/Obama game, yes, ZH loves Putin. How could you not?
Thats as far as it goes. I think the average Russian and the average American have more in
common with each other than they do with their respective 'leaders'.
The simple fact is, "the separatists" don't have an air force for the Ukrainians to target.
This was an accidental shoot down by the Russian side, what the plane was doing that far east
is the only mystery.
Kapital Xposure
the BUK missile system doesnt just use 1 truck as widely reported, it needs multiple trucks
in triangulation to be able to work and target anything at those altitudes, all trucks need
skilled operators to work in unison to fire a missile and hit a target.
so captuing just a BUK unit on its own is not really a problem, but having the entire portable
system in place with all units working together means you control that airspace up to 40,000
easily
so how did these rebels get hold of the entire system and where did they get the technicians
skilled enough in running a complex ground to air system like this?
we lost 9 people from melbourne australia here alone, 27 all up from australia, the russians
to be killing australians is not something we are liking right now, and i want nothing more
than to find all of those responsible, from the top down to the bottom.. and drop them out of
a plane at 32,000 feet and give them the same chance they gave the children from melbourne they
murdered.
RIP and we will not forget the deaths of the children father and mothers that were murdered.
topshelfstuff
The Spanish air controller confirms a conflict between the Ministry of Defense and the Ministry
of the Interior intimating that the order concerning the downing of the aircraft came from the
Ministry of the Interior, which is dominated by Svoboda and Right Sector.
'This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He
was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately
after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing
295 passengers and crew on board.
He also said that the MH17 flight was escorted by Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before it
was downed. It is worth noting that the presence of the Ukraine fighter jets reported by the
Spanish air traffic controller was confirmed by eyewitness reports in the Donetsk region:
A division of Buk missile systems of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was, according to
Pravda, deployed to the Donetsk Oblast on July 15, two days before the downing of the Malaysian
airlines MH17 flight. The Buk missile system has the capabilities of downing an aircraft flying
at 35,000 feet.
While the Pravda report remains to be confirmed, Russian Defense sources confirm the presence
of several missile batteries in the Donesk oblast operated by the Ukraine armed forces:
'The Ukrainian military has several batteries of Buk surface-to-air missile systems with
at least 27 launchers, capable of bringing down high-flying jets, in the Donetsk region where
the Malaysian passenger plane crashed, Russian Defense Ministry said"(RT,
July 17, 2014)
Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels
do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.
According to the Kiev Post report:"Ukrainian prosecutor general
says militants did not seize Ukrainian air defense launchers"
Members of illegal armed units have not seized air defense launchers of the Ukrainian Armed
Forces in Donetsk, Ukrainian Prosecutor General Vitaliy Yarema said. (Kiev
Post)
Yarema also confirmed that according to military sources:
"After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists
do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300," (quoted by Itar-Tass).
This disclaimer is pro forma. It comes from official sources and can easily be reversed at a
later date as part of the propaganda campaign directed against the Donbass rebels.
Yet what appears to be contradictory in these various statements is that immediately after the
downing of MH17, an adviser to the Ukrainian Minister of Internal Affairs Mr. Anton Gerashchenko
stated categorically that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 MH17:
"had been downed by an air defense missile system Buk" (without however
mentioning who was behind the missile operation)
According to the Ukraine Interfax News Agency Anton Gerashchenko, "said on Facebook
that the plane was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile fired
from a Buk launcher." According to the
Strait Times:
Mr Gerashchenko was quoted as saying: "A civilian airliner travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala
Lumpur has just been shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft system… 280 passengers and 15 crew have
been killed."
How could he have known what type of missile system had brought down the plane? His statement
contradicts that of the Ukrainian military.
In the face of events from Ukraine to Gaza, we want to believe that the world is not a place
of uncontrollable catastrophe
Any journalist should hesitate before saying this, but news
can be bad for you. You don't have to agree with the analyst who reckons "news is to the mind
what sugar is to the body" to see that reading of horror and foreboding hour by hour, day after
day, can sap the soul. This week ended with a double dose, administered within the space of a few
hours: Israel's ground incursion into Gaza and, more shocking because entirely unexpected, the downing
of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine, killing all 298 on board
The different responses these events stir in those of us who are distant, and the strategies
we devise to cope with them, say much about our behaviour as consumers of news. But they also go
some way to determining our reaction as citizens, as constituent members of the amorphous body we
call public, or even world, opinion.
As I write, 18 of the 20 most-read articles on the Guardian website are about MH17. The entry
into Gaza by Israeli forces stands at number 21. It's not hard to fathom why the Malaysian jet strikes
the louder chord. As the preacher might put it, "There but for the grace of God go I." Stated baldly,
most of us will never live in Gaza, but we know it could have been us boarding that plane in Amsterdam.
Which is why there is a morbid fascination with tales of the passenger who changed flights at
the last minute, thereby cheating death, or with the crew member who made the opposite move, hastily
switching to MH17 at the final moment, taking a decision that would have seemed so trivial at
the time but which cost him his life. When we read about the debris – the holiday guidebooks strewn
over the Ukrainian countryside, the man found next to an iPhone,
the boy with his seatbelt still on – our imaginations put us on that flight. Of course we have
sympathy for the victims and their families. But our fear is for ourselves.
The reports from Gaza stir a different feeling. When we read the Guardian's Peter Beaumont describe
the sights he saw driving around the strip on Friday morning –
three Palestinian
siblings killed by an Israeli artillery shell that crashed into their bedroom, a father putting
the
remains of his two-year-old son into a plastic shopping bag – we are shaken by a different kind
of horror. It is compassion for another human being, someone in a situation utterly different to
ours. We don't worry that this might happen to us, as we now might when we contemplate an international
flight over a war zone. Our reaction is directed not inward, but outward.
When we get all but a full cavity search in order to board a passenger plane why do they allow
a commercial airliner to fly over a war zone. This one is down to our own authorities that plane
should never have been there.
Also, if the West had urged Ukraine to go for the federalisation option,
there would be no "separatists" in the east.
Ever since independence in 1991, Ukraine has been pretending that it can be a second France
- a unitary state imposing a single national identity on all its various ethnic and religious
groups.
This is why Ukraine has been so dysfunctional, because what France achieved in the late eighteenth
and early nineteenth centuries -- national unification and ethnic harmonisation -- cannot be
repeated in the early twenty-first century by Ukraine.
A far better governance model for Ukraine would have been (would be) the Federal Republic
of Germany.
Pity the US leadership has been too dumb to point this out to Kiev.
RESUME OF ANALYSIS: What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory
controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will
into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform
electronic capture and launch the rocket. If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most
likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket
was sent "chasing after" the airplane.
I am not an aerodynamics specialist. I am a radioelectronics expert. Nevertheless, I specialize
in aviation. If there are aerodynamics specialists here, please critique away.
Initial Data: the plane's elevation is 10,000 metres, speed is 900 km/h (or 250 m/s).
Judging from the photos from the site of the crash, where all the pieces lie together in one
place, it appears that the plane fell as a whole (i.e. some fragments may have broken off, but the
fuselage remained intact). So, the aircraft well "as one piece" – i.e. it did not break apart in
the air.
Accordingly, it must be considered as one body, the speed of which has a very large dependence
on air resistance, particularly given the design features and its intended use.
The time of a body's free fall:
T = sqrt(2h/g)
Thus, from a height of 10,000 metres, a body will fall:
T = sqrt(2*10000/9.8) = 45 second – HOWEVER! – this applies only in vacuum.
At the same time, the downward velocity when falling from this height is:
V = sqrt(2gh)
This speed will equal 442 m/s – HOWEVER! – this, once again, applies only in vacuum.
In real-life conditions a fall happens with a certain maximum speed, at which the force of air
resistance becomes equal to the force of gravity. For a person's body, for instance, this speed
is equal to 40 m/s. For a bullet, this speed is approximately 50 m/s (depending on form and mass).
Given the plane's mass and its enormous size, let's take this speed to be 40 m/s.
Accordingly, the plane would have been falling approximately 250 second – let's round
it off to 4 minutes, which is quite close to what happened.
Let's accept that the reduction of horizontal speed also occurs pursuant to a linear equation
with certain acceleration.
The vector of the force of front air resistance is directed against the speed of movement, and
its magnitude is proportional to characteristic area S, density of the environment ρ, and speed
V squared:
V=C((P*V^2)/2)*S
For the aerodynamically well-designed body of an aircraft, Cx < 0.3
Let's calculate the force of air resistance at the speed of 250 m/s
0.3*1.26*250*250/2*50=590кН
The mass of Boeing 777 = 300 ton (in equipped state)
It means that horizontal deceleration due to air resistance would be 590/300 = 2 m/s^2
– just as I suspected (however, this is at the maximum speed).
Now, let's take our favourite highschool equation:
X=(V1^2-V0^2)/2a
Given the nonlinear nature of deceleration, divide it in half – and we get 31 kilometres.
Let's consider the strike distance of the rocket. Maximum strike distance of AGM-86 ALSM rocket:
At the height of 30 m – 20 km
At the height of 6,000 m – 26 km
The chance of a successful strike: 0.6 – 0.8
This distance should not be mistaken for the distance of detection.
Map: Yellow Pin to the West = Estimated Rocket Launch Location; Yellow Pin To the East = Crash
Site (not included --NNB)
What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by
the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. well into the Russian
territory. Otherwise, there would have been no time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic
capture and launch the rocket.
If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from
the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent "chasing after" the airplane.
"According to the Russian Defense Ministry information, units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
located in the crash-site are equipped with anti-aircraft missile systems of "Buk-M1" ... These
complexes in their tactical and technical characteristics are capable of detecting air targets at
ranges of up to 160 kilometers and hit them at full altitude range at a distance of over 30 kilometers,"
the ministry's statement reads as cited by Ria.
... ... ...
There's no way that the self-defense forces in Donetsk Region are in possession of such complex
weaponry, he stressed. Only S-300 and Buk surface-to-air missile systems are capable of hitting
targets at such altitude, the source said.
Buk is a family of self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air missile systems developed by the
former USSR and Russia to engage targets at an engagement altitude of 11,000-25,000 meters depending
on the model.
Chances are high that the Malaysian plane was really downed by the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense,
Yury Karash, pilot and aviation expert, told RT.
"A Boeing-777 is an extremely reliable piece of machinery. Modern planes don't just crash with
no reason," he said. "Let us recall how a Ukrainian missile downed Russian TU-154 aircraft ten years
ago. I can't completely exclude the possibility the Boeing-777 was also hit by a missile."
"I don't know who could've shot it down. But I can allege that it was most likely the Ukrainian
armed forces: simply because its military – anti-aircraft defense, in particular – are, unfortunately,
unqualified. As judging by the overall state of the Ukrainian armed forces, insufficient attention
has been paid to their training," Karash added.
Reports in the Western media hurried to blame the self-defense forces of the People's Republic
of Donetsk for bringing the plane down.
The claims were denied by the representatives of the Donetsk People's Republic, saying that it's
the Ukrainian military, which destroyed the aircraft.
"We simply don't have such air defense systems. Our man-portable air defense systems have a firing
range 3,000 - 4,000 meters. The Boeing was flying at a much higher altitude," Sergey Kavtaradze,
special representative for the prime minister of the Donetsk People's Republic, explained.
Kavtaradze also expressed condolences to the relatives of all of those who lost their lives in
the tragedy.
IHS Jane's Defense analyst, Nick de Larrinaga, also shared the belief that the self-defense forces
lack the capability to bring the Malaysian plane down.
"At normal cruising altitude a civilian passenger aircraft would be out of the range of the sort
of manned portable air (defense) systems that we have seen proliferate in rebel hands in east Ukraine,"
he said in a statement.
But the aircraft would be within range of Buk or other medium-range surface-to-air missile systems,
he stressed.
"Both Russia and Ukraine have such SAM systems in their inventories," the expert added.
It seems unlikely that the self-defense forces could've used Buk surface-to-air missile systems
to down the Malaysian plane, retired Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, the director of the Defense and Intelligence
Project at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, said.
"It takes a lot of training and a lot of coordination to fire one of these and hit something,"
he told CNN. "This is not the kind of weapon a couple of guys are going to pull out of a garage
and fire."
According to Ryan, if the plane was really taken down then it was done by a professional military
force.
The huge loss of life threatens to have wide-ranging and unpredictable consequences, coming just
after the US imposed further sanctions on Russia for continuing to provide weapons to the rebels.
Defence and security experts said the
Russian-made Buk surface-to-air missile system, known to be in the hands of pro-Russia fighters
in Ukraine, was most likely used.
"This was not an 'incident', this was not a 'catastrophe', this
was a terrorist act," said Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko.
... Putin chaired a meeting on the Russian economy which began with a minute's silence, and laid
the blame for the crash at Ukraine's door: "There is no doubt that the nation over whose airspace
this happened bears responsibility for the terrible tragedy," he said.
US government officials confirmed to media outlets that a surface-to-air missile brought down
the plane. US intelligence was reportedly still working to determine the exact location from which
the missile was fired, and whether it was on the Russian or the Ukrainian side of the border.
Rebels in the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics have shot down several Ukrainian
planes and helicopters in recent weeks. But they insisted they had no part in the downing of MH17,
claiming instead that Ukrainian fire was responsible.
... ... ...
Questions were being raised as to why Malaysia Airlines had continued to fly over such a volatile
region, where separatists were known to be shooting at aircraft. Qantas, the Australian carrier,
said it had been steering clear of the area by 400 nautical miles for several months. Malaysia Airlines
said after the crash that it had altered its flight paths and other airlines either did likewise
or emphasised they had already been taking alternative routes.
Apparently separatists were bragging on Twitter about shooting down another Ukrainian military
plane. Wonder if there's any truth to this. It certainly does look like a catastrophic blunder.
If it was the separatists with covert help from Russia, I can't see how Putin can wriggle out
of it.
Indeed. And one more thing: could we please have slightly less Anglo-Saxon-centred reporting
please? The article states...
US authorities were working to determine whether American citizens were
yet one look at a Dutch newspaper web site reveals that at least 154 Dutch people died. Last
I checked The Netherlands were a neighbouring country, also in Europe. It would grace The Guardian
(and I expect other UK news outlets will have the same Anglo-Saxon bias) to report on this aspect
of this horrible event as well.
I wouldn't call a full blown civil war "some pathetic feud." However tragic this event may be,
lets keep some sense of proportion. For people fighting and dying down there on the ground,
for their country and way of life, whatever it may be, this is not some "pathetic feud."
Your comment is insulting to both ukraininans and russians.
Please take note all you apologists and propagandists for from both sides who will soon
be crowding these pages with absurd and conspiratorial claims and counter-claims. You are
so pathetic.
And then watch, before very long they will lay blame with the US government and the
CIA instead of taking responsibility for their own mess.
Make feeble attempt at taking the high moral ground and then proceed to defend the US.
Hi james smith; well, from the objective evidence we have to now. Nobody seen, or has reported,
BUK missiles being fired from the ground; not one eye-witness, nor any time-dated videos/photos;
only supposition reports of what could have 'reached' that far up into the sky. If that's the
only evidence available, then I could say a meteor from outer space could have caused the downing
of the plane. Outlandish as it is, it's just as plausible as a rogue BUK at this stage of evidence
given. Now, taking into consideration it is a war zone, and that Kiev government troops/army
have used their airforce fighter jets to bomb innocent civilians in many Self-Proclaimed Republics
in East Ukraine, (FACT !) then I would say an aircraft was more likely than a meteor as the
cause. Notwithstanding that, if it wasn't an aircraft, then a BUK missile could be the cause;
but from who? Let's look at the evidence. Poroshenko's Kiev Government are proven murderers,
thugs, and employ fascist Right Sector Nazi-thugs to 'do their dirty-work'; here-in lays the
the most likely cause; they have 'committed' evil acts of
Bonkim
idiotic to route a passenger plane across a conflict zone.
FF42 > Bonkim
I would agree, but most airlines were flying as normal through the conflict zone. This includes
Lufthansa and Air France. Malaysia Airlines was particularly unlucky that the missile hit them
first, given their other recent crash.
I think airlines follow the guidance given by the Air Traffic Organisations, who gave the
all clear for this area.
realfish > FF42
There was an interesting interview tonight with someone from 'Eurocontrol' the European organisation
that manages European air traffic. He stated that as here had been no issues they considered
it safe to overfly Ukraine.
When pressed on the routing and dangers, like a typical European bureaucrat, he absolved himself
and his organisation of any responsibility, choosing to blame the nation states for the flight
plans chosen by airlines.
The routing of civilian aircraft at any height
through a war zone where surface to air missiles are known to be in use is no less than criminal
negligence. Airlines use routes and heights as determined by national and international regulatory
bodies and it is these who should be facing questions, not the luckless Malaysian Airline.
The EU was quick enough to act regarding volcanic ash, but seem to have considered SAMs a
lesser threat to aircraft entering or leaving it's airspace.
As for the Ukranian authorities they are not in control on the ground and cannot therefore
give any assurances regarding the safety of passenger aircraft transiting their airspace.
ArchiePonsonby > HookesLaw
What about that Ukrainian refusenik cowboy on the video gloating about "We told you not to
fly in our air"? Think he might have had something to do with it? One thing is certain: the
Yanks will have been watching this corner of the world intently recently, and they'll undoubtedly
have shed-loads of intelligence which they'll drop on the world any minute now. Watch for some
intense arse-covering by Vlad the Insaner!
allymax bruce > ArchiePonsonby
Why haven't you considerd 'the set-up', Archie?
Typical method of operation is to place false markers, that instigate a certain scenario,
that work to compromise an objective thought process.
Everything you 'see' as 'markers of evidence', are only the scales over your own eyes.
Kennybhoy > Jambo25
Iran Air 655 and Libyan Arab Airlines Flight 114...?
And on our side of the Med. Air France Flight 1611 and Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870...?
And not to mention Siberia Airlines Flight 1812 shot down by a Ukranian SAM launched from
Crimea...
Jambo25 > Kennybhoy •
So! The captain and executive officer of the USS Vincennes should have been charge with some
form of homicide. However, the USA did admit culpability and paid out massive sums in compensation.
The Libyan Plane flew into Israeli airspace, over the Dimona nuclear facility and after visual
identification by IDF jets was ordered to land. For some reason the pilot didn't and was shot
down. Post 9/11 we can possibly understand why.No one really knows what caused the Air France
crash, nor the destruction of Aerolinee Atavia Flight 870. Lots of theories but no hard proof.
The Ukrainian authorities admitted to a mistake in shooting down the Siberian Airways plane
fairly quickly after the incident and paid compensation. I notice you didn't mention KAL 007.
The Russians tried to blame that on the Americans, Koreans etc: virtually anybody apart from
their own Red Air Force. It took 15 years for them to release the black boxes from the plane.
Some of us can judge each incident on their own merits rather than stringing them together to
aid 'whataboutery' in order to gain forgiveness for the side we seem to support.
jack
In the end this is the fault of the EU by destabilising the region and creating a conflict.
Trying to entice Ukraine into the bosom of Europe without realising that they would be removing
the buffer zone between us and Russia.
Russia were hardly going to accept this lying down, and so here we are- pro Russian goons
given weapons they could not understand nor handle with care.
Bonkim -> jack
Spot on Jack that is what is called common sense which the EU Commissioners and US Ambassador
did not have when they went around encouraging the Ukrainian neo-Nazis in Kiev distributing
tea and biscuits.
The question that no-one can answer right now, however, is whether this in fact constitutes a
turning point in the conflict.
The rebels still seem to have large numbers in their ranks, and significant stores of weapons
and military hardware. They continue to control a decent amount of territory in the east, though
this apparently has been circumscribed somewhat in recent days.
They say they are motivated and will fight to the last man.
At the rally in central Donetsk, separatist fighters were cheered by thousands of supporters
waving the flags of Russia and of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.
Many called on Russian President Vladimir Putin to come to their aid.
Correspondents said armed fighters from Sloviansk could be seen walking through Donetsk on Sunday,
many still wearing military camouflage.
Pavel Gubarev, the self-proclaimed governor of the Donetsk People's Republic, told the crowd:
"We will begin a real partisan war around the whole perimeter of Donetsk. We will drown these wretches
in blood."
In another development, Ukraine's prison service chief said rebels had attacked and destroyed
the prison guard's headquarters in Donetsk in a bid to seize weapons. Serhiy Starenkyy told Interfax-Ukraine
news agency that staff had been evacuated.
...now, pro-Moscow insurgents are waging a separatist struggle against government forces in the
country's eastern regions.
Besides this, he must steady a teetering economy and restore faith in the country's leadership,
since many Ukrainians, especially in the east, view the government with suspicion, or outright hostility.
And last, but definitely not least, Mr Poroshenko must somehow re-establish working relations
with Russia - the country's giant neighbour with whom it shares deep cultural, historical, linguistic
and economic ties.
... ... ...
His pledges, made in Russian no less, touched on issues at the heart of the Ukraine's political
crisis: more investment in the region, the right to maintain their "own subtleties of historic memory"
- shorthand for the east's more positive attitude towards the Soviet period, "free use of Russian
in the region" and decentralisation.
But many easterners want an even more autonomous form of governance - federalisation, not decentralisation.
They also insist not on the wider use of Russian, but on establishing it as a second state language.
Mr Poroshenko says both of these demands are non-starters.
What is more, he promised to sign a landmark economic agreement with the EU "as soon as possible",
saying Ukraine's ultimate goal was to become a full member of the EU.
For many easterners - who desire closer economic and political ties with Russia instead - this
could be anathema.
Despite promises of the President, Poroshenko that the Ukrainian army will be any more shell
residential neighborhoods and kill unarmed residents of Donbass, a Ukrainian army after the termination
of the ceasefire concetrated its fire on residential quarters of Kramatorsk.
"The "victorious" Ukrainian army destroed the whole centre of Kramatorsk...Following the logic
of the shelling, B. Khmelnitsky street is entirely populated by "terrorists", and school No.24 is
their "nest"... wrote on his Facebook page a resident of Kramatorsk Ivan Polupan.
As said today at night Poroshenko,
"...hardworking and peaceful people, which is the vast majority of Donetsk and Luhansk, felt
our sympathy, love and respect".
Yes, Peter, we can see that we manage to get a full measure of your "sympathy" today judjing
from destuctions!
The prospect of further western sanctions against
Russia over
Ukraine has grown after the
Ukrainian president,
Petro Poroshenko, accused Moscow of doing nothing to end the "disastrous war" in the east of
his country.
In an interview with the Guardian and four other European newspapers on Friday, Poroshenko said
separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk regions had carried out "more than 150 attacks" against government
troops since a ceasefire began on 20 June. Five more Ukrainian soldiers died on Friday, he said.
Speaking in fluent English in Brussels, Poroshenko stated bluntly that the rebels were under
the control of Vladimir
Putin's Kremlin. "I think now Russia has done nothing [to end the violence]," he said.
"Russia is the leader of these banned groups. We are talking of Russian citizens, Russian officers,
Russian soldiers of fortune." He characterised the Kremlin's strategy in Ukraine as "not very pragmatic"
and "very emotional".
While Poroshenko signed the outstanding chapters of a historic association agreement with the
EU, pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian sides in Donetsk announced that they had extended a ceasefire
for three days to allow talks to continue.
The Brussels deal brings Ukraine significantly closer to European markets and the EU – though
with no prospect of eventual membership. Russia warned that the move would have "grave consequences".
One Putin adviser, Sergei
Glazyev, called Poroshenko a "Nazi".
Poroshenko told the Guardian that Ukraine had paid "a very high price" for its pro-European choice.
"We want to modernise my country. We want to introduce freedom, democracy and European values. Somebody
doesn't like that. Someone attacks us for that," he lamented.
Last November, Ukraine's then president Viktor Yanukovych refused to sign the EU agreement, instead
accepting a bailout from Moscow. This triggered mass street protests, which led to Yanukovych fleeing
the country and to Russia's invasion and annexation of Crimea. Asked whether Ukraine would get Crimea
back during his presidential term, a smiling Poroshenko said: "Certainly". He did not reveal how
this might happen.
Poroshenko called Friday's signing ceremony, performed in the cavernous European council building
in Brussels, the most important day for his country since independence from the crumbling Soviet
Union back in 1991. Symbolically he inked the agreement with the same black pen that Yanukovych
was supposed to use at a summit in Vilnius last year. "It is with me!" he said, showing the pen
afterwards to the Guardian.
Poroshenko said that he had discussed his 15-point peace plan for Ukraine at length with EU leaders,
including Angela Merkel, François Hollande and David Cameron. He said the EU was "completely united"
in its support for his country, which faced a grave security crisis. "That is why I'm happy. They
spoke with one voice," he told the Guardian.
The European council – representing EU leaders – will decide on Monday whether to impose new
"targeted measures" against the Russian Federation, Poroshenko said. This is likely to mean additional
sanctions against the Russian economy, in areas such as energy, finance and defence., EU states
are divided as to how far these so-called "level three" sanctions, in preparation since March, should
go.
Poroshenko said his peace plan envisages a series of concrete steps. They include a ceasefire
verified by European monitors, "including a Russian officer"; the return of three border checkpoints
to Ukrainian forces; the release of all hostages seized by separatists; and the launch of "substantial"
peace talks.
Four Organisation for Security and Co-operation in
Europe monitors were
freed on Friday, but separatists were still holding 180 prisoners, Poroshenko said, including eight
captured on Thursday.
Poroshenko said it was now up to Russia to decide whether to back his plan. Putin's only positive
step so far, he said, had been to withdraw this week a threat to use military force. Poroshenko
said it was clear Russia had intended to destabilise Ukraine from the beginning. He said he had
done his best to persuade Russia's president to sign up to a peace deal when he met him in Normandy,
together with Merkel and Hollande, days before his inauguration. His goal was to make Russia "a
predictable partner", he added.
Poroshenko admitted that the situation in parts of the east of the country was a "real disaster".
He said: "Half of Donetsk province and one third of Luhansk province is a zone of war."
"There are no banks open. No pensions are being paid. There is no water, electricity. Lots of
people with weapons are on the streets. People are afraid to go outside."
He said that in areas controlled by Kiev – some 87% of the country – by contrast, life was entirely
calm. "Within 2km from our checkpoints it's normal life. It's peace. It's calm."
Poroshenko conceded that it was impossible to win back the east using military force alone. His
strategy had other components, he said. It included constitutional changes to decentralise power,
guarantees for Russian speakers, and the rebuilding of houses and other infrastructure damaged by
fighting from state funds. He also wanted to create jobs and renew traditional industries.
All this was impossible to do, he recognised, while "there was a war going on" and with rebels
in control of key towns. At one point Kiev lost control of 280km of its border with Russia, he said.
He said a "significant part" was now back under "our control" but that "many tanks and artillery
systems" had already crossed from Russia. These were now in separatist hands, he added.
Looking pained, Poroshenko talked of the price his country was paying to try and defend its unity
and integrity. "If every day Ukraine pays with several lives of Ukrainian soldiers, with several
injured, this is not a peace plan. This is not a ceasefire. We just block the operation of our army
and they do what they want."
Western media, and in particular the Grauniad, is making a big thing out of Sergei Glazyev
calling Poroshenko a "Nazi".
Nice comment from a reader:
Prince Charles calls Putin "Hitler" – The BBC and The Guardian: it is his right to speak
his opinion. downplay it….
Hillary Clinton calls Putin "Hilter" – The BBC and The Guardian: it is her right to speak
her opinion. downplay it….
Sergei Glazyev calls Porochoko a "Nazi" – The BBC and The Guardian: How dares he? Look at
those Russkies, they respect nothing! . Post everything they can, for days to come!
To be more precise, Glazyev
called Chocco a
"Nazi Frankenstein"
"I think after the signing of the agreement with EU, [the] European public will be… surprised
when this Nazi Frankenstein, which was born by the Euro bureaucrats and some politicians, will
knock on the European countries' doors," he said.
I think technically Glazyev meant that Chocco is Frankstein's MONSTER, and not Dr. Frankenstein
himself. That's just a nitpick, but I do like people to be precise in their literary allusions.
Is true, though, that Chocco looks like he was sewed together out of parts of other peoples
rancid carcasses, and then his big zipped-up head glued on after the fact.
26 июня в Одессе прошла очередная сессия областного совета. Началось все с внутрисоветовских
перестановок. Так, из состава фракции
Партии регионов
вышли 11 депутатов. И теперь фракция, некогда насчитывающая 87 человек, сократилась до 42 депутатов.
Но в целом центральной темой дня стали события в Одессе 2 мая.
Во-первых, журналистская комиссия представила первые результаты своей работы - хронологию событий.
Не обошел стороной трагические события и губернатор Одесской области
Игорь Палица,
который во время сессии возмутился безнаказанностью одесских силовиков, "бездействие которых усугубило
последствия одесской трагедии". Кроме того, он заявил, что киевское руководство фактически заметает
следы, мешая расследованию событий 2 мая. В частности, подозреваемые, которые уезжают в Киев безвозвратно
пропадают. "В Киеве каким-то образом убийцы выпускаются под домашний арест Печерским судом. Каким-то
образом появляются сотники, не сотники, еще кто-то. И те люди, которые с трудом задерживаются в
Одесской области и городе, выпускаются в Киеве... Это большая проблема. Мы владеем большим количеством
информации, всего я, к сожалению, не могу сказать. Наверное, работают какие-то течения, которые
не хотят, чтобы одесситы узнали, что было на самом деле" - отметил Игорь Палица.
Фактически это был открытый выпад в сторону киевской власти, который вполне укладывается в концепцию
уже начавшегося противостояния между командой Порошенко и командой Коломойского.
Но далее Игорь Палица сделал очень странное заявление. В частности, он сказал, что еще утром
2 мая созванивался с начальником одесской областной милиции
Петром Луцюком:
"Он говорил, что приехали мирные люди. Я спросил, а будет ли марш, он сказал, что нет. Потом в два
часа прочитал, что случилось". Но тут есть несколько странностей. До 2 мая Игорь Палица никакого
отношения к Одесской области вообще не имел. Собственно, губернатором он стал лишь после событий
2 мая. Предыдущее руководство области и милиции отстранили, а тот самый Петр Луцюк вместе с
Дмитрием Фучеджи
еще и сбежали. Игорь Палица стал губернатором лишь 6 мая. Кроме того, сам Палица заявлял, что не
хотел занимать эту должность, но поддался на уговоры своего старшего партнера и патрона
Игоря Коломойского.
Если разговор с Луцюком имел место, исходя из предыдущих заявлений Игоря Палицы, его интерес к маршу
в Одессе не совсем ясен. Между тем, злые языки утверждают о возможной причастности именно Игоря
Коломойского к событиям 2 мая.
В целом же Одесскую область, похоже, ожидает очередная смена власти. Все чаще во властных коридорах
появляются слухи о грядущей смене губернатора.
Петр Порошенко,
который не доволен излишним влиянием команды Игоря Коломойского, попытается поставить во главе региона
своего человека. Среди кандидатур называют бывшего зампреда облсовета
Алексея
Гончаренко и экс-мэра Одессы
Эдуарда Гурвица.
Оба входят в условную группу Порошенко.
При этом в случае прихода на пост губернатора Эдуард Гурвиц скорее всего не уживется с мэром
Одессы Геннадием
Трухановым - их борьба на мэрских выборах была достаточно жесткой. Более того, у Гурвица мог
остаться осадок в отношении и Петра Порошенко, которые не поддержал его в борьбе за мэрское кресло.
Но губернаторский пост, конечно, может стать серьезной компенсацией. Как управленец Гурвиц при всех
своих высоких рейтингах-антирейтингах и достаточно очевидных провалах на посту мэра все-таки опытнее
Гончаренко. Тот фактически не имеет управленческого опыта. Депутат облсовета и заместитель председателя,
сын бывшего мэра. Имеет славу предателя в рядах "антимайдана", потому что в 2010 году выступал,
например, за русский как второй государственный. Однако, несколько раз резко менял свою политическую
риторику. Из сторонника Партии регионов превратился в ярого сторонника "евромайдана", участвовал
в разгоне Куликова
поля 2 мая.
Оба наверняка могут получить поддержку "евромайдана" и такое же осуждение "антимайдана". Но на
фоне продолжающихся политических зачисток позиция Куликова поля тут уже не очень важна.
Скорее, вопрос будет в позиции Коломойского - согласится ли он отдать Одесскую область обратно
под контроль Киева. И в случае борьбы - сможет ли новый губернатор удержать область под своим контролем?
Пока за основным кандидатом - Гончаренко - подобных талантов кризис-менеджера не замечено. В случае
же выхода борьбы между Порошенко и Коломойским в открытую стадию, Коломойский вполе может пойти
на определенное оживление движения Куликово поле. Ему будет необходимо вырастить общественного союзника
в борьбе против команды "евромайдан"-губернатор-Порошенко.
"Introduced June 24, online photo Gauleiter of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, accompanied by guards,
clearly not of Ukrainian origin and clearly not in the Ukrainian outfit, could become a sensation.
However, after the confirmation of the numerous facts of an appeal launched by the junta for
help foreign mercenaries this could not be surprising. And yet we are talking about the so-called
"first person" crumbling not on days, and on hours of a state, moreover, to establish exactly
who guards this "person" is not too complicated puzzle.
In networks engaged in the investigation to determine who chose his guards, so to speak publicly
elected President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, which, obviously, does not trust protection of
their bulk and "chocolate" body Ukrainian patriots.
In this picture Poroshenko surrounded by bodyguards armed with Belgian machines P90, on the
heads - branded caps, legs - fashion boots Lowa, and all this brave brothers is in the company
Aegis Defence Services.
Poroshenko protect employees of private military companies (PMC), about which it is known
that its headquarters are located in great Britain, in London (anyway, this is indicated by
the contacts listed on the official website of the company). Aegis Defence Services provides
security services at the international level, is known about the cooperation with the UN mission
and the U.S. government, however, and individuals friendly Brits are ready to offer their services.
Geographically the company's interests is very wide: Iraq, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Kenya, Nepal,
and now, as it turned out, and Ukraine. Aegis do a quick response and, curiously, the assessment
of risks and protect oil interests. The company employs about five thousand people.
Established in 2002, the company Aegis Defence Services has managed to avoid media attention,
which is so not like PMC, but in 2005 the British TV station Channel 4 showed the movie in which
the employees of this company were shooting at Iraqi civilians, to be more exact, in the car
with Iraqi citizens are going to pass cars with employees of Aegis. Representatives of the British
PMC his guilt is not admitted, however, to withdraw from Iraqi conflict white and fluffy failed,
as did the other PMC - American company Blackwater.
The USA refused from services Aegis Defence Services.
What was not useful to the master, had fit the footman.
Kiev junta and still continues to deny the presence in the punitive operations of foreign
mercenaries. However, militia Donetsk and Lugansk national republics constantly informed about
the radio intercepts, where heard foreign language. Previously CI "Anna-news" published a photo
of the Polish mercenary reports, not even the General, and the acting President of Ukraine,
Alexander Turchinov, in fact - the commander in chief. Citizen of Poland name is Jerzy Dziewulski,
before he headed the protection of the Polish ex-President Aleksander Kwasniewski...
However, now that Poroshenko is considered by the President of Ukraine acknowledged their
Western masters, the fact of attraction of foreign mercenaries says one thing: Gauleiter of
Ukraine is afraid.
Afraid of their own soldiers, their own security and their own people, the very thing which
allegedly took it as a guarantor shaky Ukrainian Constitution..."
Almost four months have passed since the day that Ukraine had the coup. During this time, the
new authorities failed to do anything unless the election, and that with the help of questionable
legitimacy of the procedure, a new President. The new President has made a few statements, but has
not taken no meaningful action.
The economy continues to be ruined, no gas, now also in the pipeline exploded. Military-technical
exports to Russia are closed, and this was the only stable article monetary incomes of the Ukrainian
budget. And in the South-East of the country there is a real war, in which Ukraine looks of it spends
the few resources that she still remained. Including, of course, and reputational resource - never
before the authorities of any country in the modern world not kill and detained many foreign journalists.
And here in this situation happened national disaster, in an atmosphere paralysed and incapable,
ogrisauga the last effort of the state and the collapsing of the country, the self-proclaimed Prime
Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk finally found the root of evil. Found those who blame. And if you think
that Russia and Russians - you are wrong.
No, all was at fault... the citizens of Ukraine! Because, believe it or not, spend too much energy.
And energy-that flew into the dead end of its historical development, Ukraine is just not enough.
What is the irrational waste of energy? - you will ask. Perhaps that Ukrainians burned tires
on the street instead of burning them in their apartments and, thus, to warm them? Or that they
spend so much precious petrol to pour it in bottles and burn with these bottles are so lacking now
policemen or those who are against the Maidan?
No. The thing is that Ukrainians are open in the winter window. And this in Ukraine.
"We will never get off the energy of the needle, " said Arseniy Yatsenyuk, speaking in Parliament,
- If we are to open in the winter window to the apartments was cooler."
Well, I'm glad it was finally clear. And the main thing - it is clear what to do. One has to
give the militants "Right sector" nails and hammers, and may they go on apartments and boarded up
in them open. Until the winter there is still time, and, you see, no one in Ukraine will not be
able to open the Windows. Even if they want to. And then she could try to get off the energy of
the needle.
But it is only in the case, of course, if Ukraine will manage to live till winter.
The authors of this video consider alliance of Oligarch Poroshenko with far right forces was connected
with his Presidential ambitions. He decided that only West can make him President and serving as cash
cow for the USA will be rewarded. By some estimate he spend hundred million on propelling Maidan violence.
It looks like "junta in chocolate" declared a truce. A whole week of peaceful life granted to
us by the President, Poroshenko before "the final solution" of Donbass question. Sill no joy. I
am straining to convince myself, even with the help of auto-training, but feel no joy. Events that
occurred after the publication of this optimistic Manifesto, leave me with a sense of bitterness
and despair.
Well, judge for yourself. Peter Poroshenko assessment of the situation and the rhetoric has not
changed a single millimeter. Pro-autonomy militias are still bandits and terrorists who want to
destroy Ukraine. The President is not going to listen to their reasons or take into consideration
in possible negotiations their interests. Actually, the negotiations have already been - Poroshenko
discussed the peace plan with the local elite, and his plan was supported by one hundred percent,
according to witnesses and Hanna Herman. The problem is that we don't know who these influential
people were and what they do today.
This was not local deputies, nor representatives of militia, not any of respected in the region
of the people. Then who? I suspect that the negotiations were held with representatives of the so-called
civil sector, which is represented exclusively by social activists aka grant-eaters. The degree
of their influence on the life of Donbass and mindset of people, not counting the limited local
liberal-nationalist parties, is not visible even in the strongest microscope. Does it make sense
to negotiate with them? Just because this is what he was told to do in the USA Embassy?
In order for something to rely on, this is something that should provide the necessary resistance,
so I was taught in the physics class in high school. If the President met with people for years
who were on U.S. and to a lesser extent the European taxpayers payroll, what kind of necessary resistance
and criticism can we talk about? The centre of the influence they have is the same as our newly
minted President and is well known. It's the U.S. Embassy. And as humorless Psaki just said the
situation in Ukraine is under control.
The President behaviour is certainly understandable. Zugzwang, in which he got is absolutely
terrible. On the one hand, he has several times in a beautiful position of a peacemaker, with befitting
the moment facial expressions and gestures promised to stop the war. Until the end of the week.
He did not tell us which week. Well, here in Slavyansk the ceasefire was announced, and we know
what the last and current weeks were about.
On the other hand, the olive branch in his hand was a first was openly ridiculed by "Patriotic
oligarch" Kolomoisky, which directly stated that fighting will not stop, and on Sunday was subjected
to withering criticism by Maidan radicals (who are still roaming the streets of Kiev) and who would
like that in the speeches of the President no a single letter hinted at a peaceful resolution of
the situation.
One can often hear a question - why Mr. Poroshenko, successful entrepreneur, pragmatic oligarch,
seem so eagerly rushed to take this post? The post on which he is nothing buy a pitiful marionette.
Is was not a rocket science to calculate risks. Or that he will be paralyzed by aggressive, hungry
and bloodthirsty nationalist community, which will strictly defines the agenda?
Even at the moment Mr. Poroshenko uttered his "peaceful proposals", the guns were firing at full
speed. In no way they were silenced. On the contrary, it is in moments when the President pathetically
declared the peace plan, shells were fired into Russian territory in the area of the crossing point
Dolzhanskaya "that led to the destruction of buildings and injured foreign custom official". The
statement that the soldiers will open fire only in response, impresses nobody. It's like a children's
checkmate in chess. when a person learned to play three days ago already can master this simple
trick. It is not necessary to be a great scientist, you just have to listen and look around to see
how easily this condition can be bypassed. Who is going to find out, whose shot was the first? You
can shoot yourself in the sky and then respond to this shoot with the full force.
Shelling of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk after the announcement of the ceasefire, which officially
began on 20 June at 22 : 00, never stopped. Intense battle was at the checkpoint Dolzhansky. Buses
with children who went to Rostov region, were fired on the move.
Who dares not to follow the order of the commander in chief? Who substitutes "the guarantor of
the Constitution" and Army Chief? Who is so independent that can neglect firm word of the President,
which he gave to the country and, as usual, to the world, and most importantly, presidents and chancellors
who control our government with a cynical openness?
The mere statement, colored the most pathetic colors, containing unrealistic promises, and is
trying to shove 10 pound into five pound bad was a joke. Solid guarantee that destroyed cities will
be rebuild, drives everybody in sardonic laugh. Why, say, deliberately and consistently shell and
bomb Slavyansk, Semenovka and Kramatorsk, Mariupol and Happiness, transforming houses, schools,
kindergartens, hospitals, roads in a pile of rubble? Who and how will restored this huge damage.
At whose expense? The population continues to leave their homes and seek shelter with relatives
and friends.
How can you live with relatives and friends? The question will inevitably arise - what to do
next? Summer will fly in an instant, relatives tired, familiar ties cool down. To demand from the
people of the eternal mercy and altruism is naive. So where will return the inhabitants, for example,
Slavyansk? And how not to believe people who say that those cities were deliberately decided to
be leveled into parking lot, eliminated from off the face of the earth, to released the territory
for use to satisfy some of the more pressing needs of our government and, of course, its handlers?
Fleeing in terror Donbass residents do not want to believe themselves, in the soul realizing
that the conception of power that is: cleaning of the territory from the people for whom Lugansk,
Donetsk, Slavyansk, Kramatorsk - native land. To deprive people of soil, confidence, to make them
confused demoralized crowd, Diaspora others ' territories. Is not this a diabolical plan of the
new government?
The Ombudsman Lutkovska, which was terribly concerned about the violation of human rights on
the Maidan, but lapsed into deep silence right from the first day of the bombing of Donbass, suddenly
became concerned about the situation of migrants. This word means we have to call the people that
the war was driven from their perches. Such a sweet euphemism, in order to present refugees as a
capricious child that suddenly decided to change places. And they suddenly abandon their homes,
relatives, even Pets, and all at once starred in search of new impressions and high incomes.
Shame is not a smoke, it does not affect eyes. Lutkovska agree to call these people displaced
and discuss their resettlement problems. But only quietly, so as not to annoy the authorities. It
was not a criminal regime of Yanukovich. With new democrat in power you really can be physically
kicked in a head for such behaviour.
While the Ombudsman with the team run between the raindrops, liberal society abuse social network.
Some because of problems with their brains, and some for 25 cents for the comment. Refugees from
Donbas drawn the most infernal freaks, cattle, arrogant and stupid hangers-on and parasites. Conversion
of people of Donbass into Ukrainian variant of undermensch continues at a record pace that
no one had even slightest pity to them. Especially mad are young and conditionally young (20 to
35) ladies. These state your thoughts in this way, that the famous Ogre Bokassa would be red with
shame. If we are so nasty, why are you trying us to hold within Ukraine girls? Oh Yes, not us, we
does not matter, its the territory.
The world community keeps a conspiracy of silence around the tragedy of Donbass. The death of
women and children impresses no one. Our compatriots call us larvae and females of Colorado bugs.
Photographs and testimony of witnesses declared to be fiction or fakes from the Russian media.
The great writer Marquez, who told the world about the fantastic and tragic village of Macondo,
in one of the episodes provinces describes a situation like this. It's when the national army shot
3 thousand striking workers, whose corpses were thrown into the sea, and the story about it completely
erased from the collective memory. We thought, it does not happen - well, except that in the fantastic
and mysterious novels. It happens. Dying of sadness and loneliness, people are experiencing a terrible
tragedy all his life under dead silence indifferent spectators.
Biden assured Poroshenko that the whole world supports the Ukrainian government, who systematically
and methodically cleaning Donbass from the population, including, serving, in a way, commercial
interests of Mr. Biden's son...
The United Nations agree to acknowledge that refugees exist, and, for example, in Odessa, every
day comes 50-60 people. This, according to the UN raises certain concerns...
But in reality, people are afraid to contact the authorities and leaving thousands quietly for Russia,
getting primarily grey crying out their eyes. Trying to disappear into the crowds of other cities
or to cross the border into Russia. Everyone remember the promise to hang, promise of filtration
camps, "accommodation" in other provinces...
Against this background, the President's statements about taking into account of interests of
the inhabitants of Donbass look looks as cruel mockery. Promises to negotiate even with separatists,
even with those who have diametrically opposite views on the future of Ukraine, could become a basis
for optimism. If the authorities made any attempts of such negotiations to begin. Instead, Poroshenko
declares that the war united the nation, which is now as united as never before. Why, then, to break
such a valuable tool? It looks like you like the was Mr. Poroshenko, don't you?
Therefore, real negotiations about peace, and tricks done by lapdogs at the order of the US owners
will never start. Also the government was taken hostage by the radicals. On Sunday yet another Maidan
"people assembly" showed who keeps fingers at the throat of the President. The list of requirements
of participants of the this "People Assembly" leaves no room for optimistic improvisations. From
power required stiffness, uncompromising and war.
And the President try to satisfy this new type of auditors/controllers of his behaviour - assuring
supporters that he will find and punish the murderers of the participants of the Maidan during sniper-gate.
In the process Poroshenko says wonderful phrase: "Never again will the Ukrainian government should
shoot at Ukrainian people. We must create a new situation. We will never stop. We defeated Yanukovich.
We will defeat bandits. We will build a new country, the country for which the people came out on
the Maidan".
Now let's think at whom Ukrainian authorities are shelling and killing at Slavyansk?
But if the participants of the "People Assembly" (Veche) can still be inspire by pathetic assurances
instead of hard cash, then how the radicals who on Sunday stormed Kiev Lavra Monastery under the
pretext of preventing armed rebellion, which, apparently, were held by elderly and very elderly,
who wanted to hold a procession for the peace of the country?
...
P.S. In anticipation of the sorrowful date June 22, 7-th channel of Kharkov TV, who as they say,
belongs to mayor Kernes, who promised in his time to break the Nazis arms and legs, showed interesting
documentary. The audience told how wonderful, how great this city was doing during the German occupation.
Banks, libraries and cinemas were working, the population attended concerts and were given loans.
And this is a great splendor was so rudely interrupted by the Soviet army. Well, it looks like 20
million of Soviet citizens committed mass suicide, at least according to the latest trends of the
Ukrainian ideological revolution
Mihail Baevsky
I'm not sure that the current Ukraine can help something besides that helped Germany in 1945.
Yesterday's pictures from Kiev, where pathetic behavioure of polit equipped according to the
latest "fashion". "Law enforcers", which were beaten by dozens agitated young men in masks,
who took from then shields, batons, etc. After seeing that I finally was convinced that when
those who are requred by thier duty to disperse insane morons put the organizers and leaders
in jail, but trying faster to slip in a safe place, the state is doomed. THIS STATE? THE UKRAINIAN
STATE NO LONGER EXIST. It became a place with the most dangerous for the world abscess that
need to be cured with surgery.
sever -> Mihail Baevsky
SHOCK... the COMPLETE MEDIEVAL DARKNESS... HORROR... AND all what Nyura wrote is true! This
is truth about current Ukraine! And absolute despair! To live with fascists and Bandera followers
is unbearable, But to split the territory from them is possible only via war! Such a wonderful
opportunities for people of Danbass!
These bastards will never negotiate; then want just another "March on Madrid!" They want
everybody behaved as they wish, or make a scorched territory out of those who resist. Why pity
those barbarians (as they think!) all those residents of Donbass.
But this will not be as they want. F*ck you, Western Ukranian brothers!!! War kills on both
sides! And coffins already flying to West Ukraine. Sh*tty Ukranian TV now shows magnificent
funerals of "Heroes", and or some reason we do not mind, because all the pity of our souls was
destroyed by their bombardments of our cities! The more of them die, the better.
Our children are dying, peaceful people are dying Nyura! Thanks a lot for the article...
Perhaps to change the mood, I should reread your past columns NURA! Funny, sarcastic, ironic!
Still Nura your analysis of the situation as depressing as it is pretty much precise diagnose
of the current situation. I don't like this situation. Oh, I really do not like it !!!
ksapp -> sever
Yes, It is evident that Nyura columns became more and more sad. When such things happen,
at some point sarcasm stop working.
Вся президентская рать. Первые назначения, продолжение следует
Последними кадровыми назначениями новый президент Украины Петр Порошенко в очередной
раз продемонстрировал свой политический почерк, в каком-то смысле роднящий его со своим предшественником
– Виктором Януковичем.
Как и президент-изгнанник, президент-гонитель ценит личную преданность и годами наработанные
связи. В Украине обретает свои очертания новая "Семья" - первые подмастерья шоколадных дел мастера
уже получили свои заветные кресла.
Если бы украинским гетманам давали бы прозвища, как это было принято на Руси, то Порошенко наверняка
получил бы звание Петр Медлительный - такой пробуксовки с принятием решений не было ни у одного
из украинских президентов. Майдановская общественность, которая "все еще верит", связывает это со
спецификой времени, мол, "сложная ситуация в стране". Хотя абсолютно очевидно, что именно экстраординарные
времена требуют экстраординарных решений. Тем более что обещал Петр Алексеевич много. О прекращении
огня на Востоке в формулировке "до конца недели" мы слышим уже энную неделю - в этом смысле Порошенко
уже напоминает неблагонадежного должника, стреляющего "до зарплаты". Аналогично в экономике, аналогично
было и с кадровыми вопросами. Где ж обещанная команда, которая должна строить "жизнь по-новому"?
В конце парламентской недели Петра Алексеевича наконец прорвало. Верховной Раде на утверждение
были представлены министр иностранных дел, генпрокурор и глава Нацбанка. Учитывая то, что в последнее
время происходит в Украине, должности, мягко говоря, горячие, требующие особо тщательного отбора
кандидатур, ну, это если предположить, что кто-то там надеется на какой-то диалог. Но оттолкнемся
даже от этого. И что же мы увидели? Некогда "любый друг" Порошенко назначил новых "любых друзив"
и откровенных перебежчиков, чей звездный час и настал сегодня в стране.
Начнем с министра иностранных дел. Лично меня судьба этой должности особо волновала, ибо то,
что происходит с украинской дипломатией, не выдерживает никакой критики. Дещица стал олицетворением
всей глупости украинской политической жизни, хотя, как показали события, даже этот провокатор и
остряк-неудачник знал, что делает. Напевая известную всем песенку, Дещица уже понимал, что его личная
песенка спета, поэтому войти в анналы современной украинской истории у него могло получиться только
беспрецедентным непрофессионализмом, являющимся, по сути, государственным вредительством. Порошенко
же таким образом обставился – кто-то воспримет замену Дещицы просто как кадровую ротацию, а кто-то
– как наказание за выходку под посольством. Даже здесь Петр Алексеевич продолжает юлить.
Новым министром иностранных дел Украины стал Павел Климкин. Его фамилия мало
о чем скажет аудитории, хотя биография у него довольно богатая. Скажем для начала, что новоиспеченной
министр родился … в России, что в случае чего дает повод снова рассказать о том, что в украинскую
власть внедряются ФСБшные агенты. Больше всего Климкина знают по работе в Германии в качестве посла
Украины, однако мало кто вспоминает, что до этого молодой дипломат прекрасно трудился у Виктора
Януковича на посту замминистра иностранных дел. А как же люстрация? Стоит отметить, что против избрания
Климкина министром резко выступила фракция "Свобода", посчитавшая, что Климкин якобы недостаточно
добросовестно агитировал за Украину в Европе в период майдановских событий. Видимо, Тягнибок и Ко
знают о новом министре много интересного…
Стоит ли ждать чего-то хорошего от нового главы МИДа? Учитывая то, что сразу после назначения
он назвал главным приоритетом внешней политики Украины евроинтеграцию, разговаривать с новым министром,
по большому счету, не о чем. А если рассуждать предметно, то сегодня хорошим министром иностранных
дел мог бы стать кто-то из успешных послов Украины в России, тот, кто знает, как договариваться
с Москвой. Эти навыки сейчас куда ценнее соревнований по оральному удовлетворению западных политиков,
что в принципе и было главным критерием подбора глав МИД последнего десятилетия.
Отдельное внимание стоит обратить на нового председателя Нацбанка Украины Валерию Гонтареву,
которую в четверг поддержали 349 народных депутатов. Гонтарева сменила на этом посту главного кассира
Майдана Степана Кубива, который четыре месяца с важным видом смотрел, как украинская
гривня катится ко всем чертям, так и не поняв разницы между сбором червонцев на покрышки и монетарной
политикой государства.
Так, ху из Валерия Гонтарева? Она довольно неплохой инвестиционщик, хотя к банковскому дело это
имеет весьма косвенное отношение. И можно было бы спокойно закрыть на это глаза, все-таки женщина
и действительно новая, из корпоративного сегмента, но есть одно "но". Валерия Гонтарева в свое время
очень активно занималась структурированием сделок по привлечению финансирования для развития бизнеса
Roshen в России, чем в принципе и объясняется столь надежные тылы революционного Петра Алексеевича
в стане агрессора. Вот она круговая порука в своем классическом проявлении!
А Нацбанк ведь место сладкое, и у всех президентов на этом месте сидели только самые проверенные
люди. И это открывает колоссальные перспективы. Вспомните Арбузова у Януковича и Стельмаха у Ющенко.
Какие суммы в обоих случаях фигурировали. А под шумок девальвации сейчас можно и просто чудеса творить,
ведь во всем все равно будет Путин виноват.
Третье и, пожалуй, самое кричащее назначение четверга – это смена свободовца Олега Махницкого
на главного "правоохранителя" Майдана Виталия Ярему. Опустим ту часть текста, в
которой я должен написать о том, что "Свобода" весьма и весьма обиделась, - об этом поговорим позже.
Здесь скорее просятся несколько слов о самом Махницком. И? Пересажал? Нашел? Предъявил? Майдановцы,
вас-то обувают просто на глазах, или со временем тоже может выясниться, что Махницкий – агент Кремля?
Ревкомы с тройками, как оказалось, тоже никому не нужны. Это просто часть политического шоу.
Ярема прыгнул в кресло генпрокурора из другого кресла – вице-премьера, ответственного за силовой
блок. В чем, кстати, заключается смысл этой должности, так и осталось большой тайной. Ярема за последние
несколько месяцев лишь раздувал щеки с украинским генералитетом и с полным скорби выражением лица
сообщал о количестве жертв.
Теперь сетовать на отсутствие полномочий вряд ли получится, зато вариантов для нужной подачи
информации о преступлениях "режима", когда сам "режим" уже давно за границей, появится с лихвой.
А учитывая то, что главной задачей новый генпрокурор назвал расследование убийств на Майдане, несложно
догадаться – в ближайшем будущем нас ждут очередные "утиные истории".
Но что мы, в принципе, знаем о Виталии Яреме, кроме его майдановских регалий и ментовском прошлом?
Мало. А стоило бы покопаться - интересного там достаточно. Например, крайне интересным фактом является
то, что свою политическую карьеру Ярема начал в "Нашей Украине", к которой после выборов 2004 года
пытались присосаться все, кому не лень, так как там "кормили".
"Наша Украина" вскоре была сменена на "Батькивщину", сейчас же Виталий Григорьевич переходит
в прямое подчинение Петра Порошенко, следовательно, следующим политическим пристанищем нового генпрокурора
практически наверняка станет "Солидарность".
Типичная политическая миграция в исполнении Виталия Яремы как нельзя лучше характеризует
кадровые потенции Порошенко. Ставка делается на перебежчиков – Ярему, Луценко, Томенко и прочих,
успевших засветиться во всех перспективных демократических проектах последнего времени. Что
касается профессиональной деятельности Яремы, то связана она с Киевом. Так, новый генпрокурор, который
сейчас так яро кричит о борьбе с коррупцией, с 2005-го по 2010 год отлично себя чувствовал на должности
главы МВД украинской столицы. А что это за период? Правления Ющенко? Что вы, не так показательно.
Это пик активности "молодой команды" во главе с Леней "Космосом" Черновецким, которая коррумпировала
от "А" до "Я" киевскую правоохранительную систему. Теперь именно глава этой системы будет бороть
в Украине ее главный бич – коррупцию.
Вы думаете, у общественности будут какие-то вопросы к Яреме? Отнюдь. Политическое предательство
и работа с Черновецким полностью амнистировались Майданом, да и не вспомнит об этом никто, главное,
что наш.
Точно так же мало, кто вспомнит, что новый глава ДУСи (Державне Управлiння Справ –
ред.) Сергей Березенко – в совсем недавнем прошлом человек Черновецкого, которому в
заместители Петр Алексеевич назначил винницкого КВНщика. Кстати, о Виннице. Забывайте про донецких,
начинайте говорить про винницких. А там людей хватит, поверьте.
Петр Порошенко обозначил логику своего президентства. Ему нужны проверенные годами кадры и политические
перебежчики, которых можно будет оперативно менять, как перчатки, перекладывая на их плечи ответственность
за неизбежные политические неудачи. Порошенко в этом ключе действительно становится все больше похожим
на Виктора Януковича. У того тоже были такие как Пшонка и Азаров – верные и проверенные временем
и такие как, например, Портнов – перебежчики, чьими руками делалась вся грязная работа.
Неужели на Украине такое политическое проклятье – сколько Майданов ни собирай, а к власти все
равно приходит одно и то же?
Не Петр Медлительный, а Тормоз Киевский. Хотя всеми своими делами он заслужил титут УПЫРЬ ПЯТЫЙ
КРОВАВЫЙ или БОКАССА УКРАИНСКИЙ. Интересно, сколько американских послов УПЫРЬ должен съесть, что
бы Запад протрезвел?
"Неужели на Украине такое политическое проклятье – сколько Майданов ни собирай, а к власти все
равно приходит одно и то же?" - немного о проклятии. Анализируя историю Украины не могу отделаться
от ощущения, что каждая попытка Украины стать государством (на всем историческом пути) заканчивается
одинаково - убийствами, разрухой, нищетой, войной - РУИНОЙ. Так может Украина как государство противно
природе? Может не нужно Украине становится государством? Может стоит и пра-пра-пра-...правнукам
завещать - НИКОГДА ДАЖЕ НЕ ПЫТАТЬСЯ СОЗДАВАТЬ ГОСУДАРСТВО ИМЕНУЕМОЕ УКРАИНОЙ
20 июня 2014 08:44
2sever
+100500% Браво, михаил! Отлично сказано!!! В самую точку!
20 июня 2014 09:19
3ОМСДОН
Политика - это грязь. И плоха та свинья которая не мечтает в ней вываляться.
правильнее не ВСЯ ПРЕЗИДЕНТСКАЯ РАТЬ, а ВСЯ ПРЕЗИДЕНТСКАЯ СРАНЬ
20 июня 2014 10:01
6НадоелоНикПисать
Мммм-дааа ... Видимо товарищ Вальцман считает , что стОит только спеть гимн Украины на центральной
площади да назначить старое отребье на новые должности , как тут же на Юго-Востоке забудут о разрушенных
хунтой городах и о убитых хунтой детях , в Галиции станут ровными дороги , бюджет начнет ломиться
от бабла , пенсионеры будут получать самую большую в мире пенсию , волшебным образом прочистятся
канализационные трубы , заколосятся помидоры и передохнет весь колорадский жук !! Ну , шо ж , господа
ре-эволюционеры ... Жoпa - гениально многофункциональный орган . Этим органом думают ; им подумав
, ищут на него же приключений … А когда найдут , в нём же и сидят -- Плохо только то , что жопой
думает только кучка продажных евро- маргиналов , а в эаднице приходится сидеть всей стране --
20 июня 2014 10:06
6.1Ira
Извините, но Ваш пост навеял ...Из раннего Леди Чаттерли." Эээх, только у нас ж.опа - не только
часть тела, но и событие. А полная ж.опа - так вааще комплекс мероприятий."
20 июня 2014 10:51
7mobifes
Всё логично. По другому и не может быть. За все годы "независимости" так и не появилась финансовая
и политическая элита(настоящая , а не номинальная). Подбор кадров по профессиональному признаку
невозможен. Остаётся личная преданность. Это объективно. И вот теперь эти персонажи будут учиться
на народе. В лучшем случае. В худшем - займутся своим обычным делом - удовлетворением личных амбиций
и обогащением.
20 июня 2014 12:26
8Майданутый
Уря!!! Одни новые лиуа.И одна старая попа(от барских ющенских щедрот-геращенка).Вот завтра Яремка
откроет дело против корешей:луцык,пЭтрухи,жванюхи..Для начала и трёх хватит,чтоб народ поверил.
20 июня 2014 13:00
9NHL
Самое главное, чтобы Порошенко очистил Український Донбас от сепаратистской заразы, нечисти,
грязи.
Poroshenko proved to be an average, clueless, jingoistic politician, more akin to US marionette
that to a person who managed to amass huge fortune. Quote "Rich middle-aged people who will never have
to do any actual fighting themselves are always the most belligerent." "All the war-propaganda, all
the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." -George Orwell.
"Yes here's an example of US and EU Doublethink: Assad bombs his own people. He is a very bad man; Poroshenko
bombs his own people. He is a very good man.
Rich middle-aged people who will never have to do any actual fighting themselves are always
the most belligerent.
AfroJoe dawkinsbulldog
Absolutely right: Nixon, Regan, Thatcher, Blair, Bush, Cameron, Putin... I see no exceptions
to the rule.
The more things change, the more they stay the same!
ocixem2 dawkinsbulldog
"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people
who are not fighting." -George Orwell
wellbeingb4dolla ocixem2
Yes here's an example of US and EU Doublethink
Assad bombs his own people. He is a very bad man
Poroshenko bombs his own people. He is a very good man.
Babeouf,07 June 2014 11:17am
The Chocolate Soldier speech is just a restatement of the previous regimes reasons for their
war on the East. It offers 'Peace' if the rebels in the East surrender. Now perhaps this
is just a negotiating position. But if the attacks by the Ukrainian military on the rebels
continue then this is evidence that a negotiated peace is not the aim but victory is . And perhaps
a Chocolate Soldier is likely to find this illusory idea of victory initially attractive.
adognow -> Babeouf,07 June 2014 12:05pm
Naturally, Poroshenko and his coup lackeys find it difficult to defeat the eastern Ukrainian
militia on the field of battle, so he's resorting to demands of surrender.
Which is patently stupid. Why would the eastern Ukrainians surrender and be at the mercy
of the Ukrainian junta's rightwing paramilitaries?
jgbg -> Babeouf,07 June 2014 12:14pm
The shelling and air strikes have continued during and since Poroshenko's inauguration. As
with previous talk of peace by the Ukrainians, it is just talk.
Why don't they understand that every shell, rocket or bomb landing in Slaviansk, Donetsk,
Lugansk, etc. simply pulls the people of Novorussia together and brings more recruits to the
militias? Even if they can win these battles, the Ukrainian side will never be safe in Novorussia
- they would be seen as occupiers by the population and could expect could expect ongoing attacks
against their authority.
They cannot win.
SvQMedia
There are so many things wrong with this Petroshenko/Ukraine situation.
It should be none of our business but the Ukraine is now a US/EU client state and Mr P another
client stooge who simply has to read the CIA scripts.
The US/EU/NATO axis knows that this will lead to war with Russia as Mr Putin is not the guy
to meddle with.
We know that Obama is not really in charge coming to the end of his second term but this
is warmongering on a global scale.
peekaboo
"Petro Poroshenko uses inaugural address for pledge on Crimea and offer amnesty to separatists
and nationalists"
And what about prosecutions against those behind the atrocities in Odessa, and elsewhere
by the regime's thugs and death squads? Obama, Barroso etc and their supporting media channels
are silent
third_eye
His inexperience shows. If there should be the slightest chance of recovering Crimea, it's
not through megaphone diplomacy. Proshenko's has publicly thrown his lot in with the West and
given that the Ukrainian situation is from done and dusted, I'm not sure whether that's a wise
move. Perhaps, like the unelected rulers of Kiev, he's effectively weakened or even compromised
himself to the West, especially the US. If that's the case, it's a position from which he'll
never be able to extricate himself without losing his presidency.
His public statements in recent days don't augur well for a diplomatic solution. One only
hopes that he's not taking instructions from Washington or Brussels. If he is, we're probably
in for a very long war of attrition in which there'll be one loser, Ukraine.
NWObserver third_eye
Poroshenko can't act too fast or the West will find an excuse to replace him. Crimea is a
closed chapter. But he has to make all the noises of no consequence while taking concrete steps
to defuse the situation in Donbass. Russia won't be worried about empty rhetoric like getting
Crimea back. If it earns Poroshenko some brownie points at home, no problem.
Sooner or later he will be faced with the task of replacing the government. At that point
of time he needs the support of as many Ukrainians as he can get, because the West is not going
to make it easy for him to do so.
third_eye NWObserver
NWO...Good analysis. Well done!
I think he's in a no-win situation. If he tow's the western line, Ukraine will find the road
to recovery long and hard. If he compromises with Russia and endangers the West's geo-political
goal of securing Ukraine for the West, he'll be engineered out of his presidency in the blink
of an eye.
third_eye
If Proshenko persists with his hawkish position in regard Crimea, he'll only force Russia
to ensure that eastern Ukraine becomes a buffer zone between Crimea and western Ukraine. This
chap seems rather prone to shooting from the hips...as evidenced by sending troops into eastern
Ukraine and now making uncompromising public statements which leave little to no room for a
diplomatic process. I think someone should quickly tell him that running a country at war is
different from running a chocolate factory.
loveminuso
So now the Western NeoCons are going to use their Crimean 'Ace' to drive the poor people
of the Ukraine into a Syrian-style mass murder Project for profit. These 'people' will flatten
the Ukraine to get what they want and will murder poor people in their 1000's.
How can the Civilized, reasonable People in the West Allow this? They will be using your
taxes and blood to drive their Hostile Corporate take-over of Ukraine forward, and only the
Western taxpayers and voters can stop their Public Employees/Servants from committing this premeditated
crime against Humanity. The law won't.
EbbTide64, 07 June 2014 11:49am
The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, has used his inaugural address to stress that
the country would not give up Crimea
He's delusional if he thinks Russia will hand back Crimea, including the huge Sevastopol
Russian naval base, to a US-owned Ukraine.
So is he going to declare war on Russia, for not handing Crimea back?
loveminuso EbbTide64
There's a fucking huge war coming...and no Western NeoCon and their families will be hurt
in the making of this production. That's the problem with war...there are no direct personal
consequences for those cowards who create and manage them from behind the scenes.
Hottentot EbbTide64
Agree, and as Putin said some months ago to Kiev, 'are you mad' - they are, and they will
lose.
JANNERBOB
Poroshenko is held up by strings, the West working his left hand,Fascists working his
right hand and Washington working his voice box.
His free will and spine have been removed at the gates of power.Ukraine is officially a financial
and political basket case.The Crimean's will never want to return to the abomination that Ukraine
has become and who can blame them.
Sergei Konyushenko
Poroshenko also said he intended to sign the economic part of an association agreement
with the European Union, as a first step towards full membership.
It's quite a questionable step,this means economic slavery. absolute takeover on resources,
fracking, austerity without any serious obligations from the EU side. And as far as i know there's
a bunch of associated states, that never has any chance to become a member. EU needs no Ukraine,
it need it's resources, making German trashcan consumer out of Ukraine.
If you could look at conditions Poland was invited, and what was proposed to Ukraine in comparison,
it's appalling.
Ukraine is not even capable to pay for the gas it consumes, almost 60 percent of it's GDP is
dependent on trade ties with Russia, it has no resources to adapt to EU norms and standards,
and have no access to a cheap financial sources, hence it has no opportunity to make any breakthrough,
like Poland was allowed to.
Corcoran
Behind all of this seems to be a huge plan to weaken Europe in order to boost the dying Empire.
Russia, backed by China, simply cannot be brought to heel. Even the biggest tool understands
this. The only aim here seems to be to wreak destruction in central and probably Western Europe
so that American goods can be flogged afterwards.
KarlNaylor75
"Citizens of Ukraine will never enjoy the beauty of peace unless we settle down our relations
with Russia. Russia occupied Crimea, which was, is, and will be Ukrainian soil"
Ukraine needed a conciliatory president but Poroshenko has set back the prospect of there
being a peace process and continued down a political path that can only end in open civil war.
There is no realistic possibility of Ukraine regaining Crimea from Russia militarily and NATO
would not help.
Federalisation would have been the only way to contain the rebels in the eastern regions.
By failing to distance himself from far right Ukrainian nationalists in positions of power-or
remove them-and by deciding on a military solution to defeating the eastern militias the civil
war is set to continue.
With the Ukrainian air force using non guided rockets to attack the regional administrative
building in Luhansk, killing eight civilians, attitudes are starting to polarise with opinion
in the eastern regions hardening against Kiev. With no constitutional settlement, Kiev is determined
to use force to crush 'separatists'
The next mistake Poroshenko made is to go ahead with signing the economic part of an association
agreement with the European Union. All membership of western economic and military organisations
should have been off the table until the new constitutional position of the eastern regions
was agreed.
Miners and workers in the Donbass region know that IMF and EU reforms could mean the destruction
of their livelihoods and a break with the economic ties with Russia that provide guaranteed
markets would mean penury and being thrown on the scrapheap.
The reason why the referendum on independence for the Donbass was rushed through in May 2014
was in response to the fear that Kiev was trying to ram through 'reforms' without their consent
and without considering the economic interests of the workers in the east.
The double standards are plain. Whereas the western regions of Ukraine, where far right nationalists
rule, were able in February 2014 to gain a measure of regional autonomy when it feared Kiev
was not pursuing policies in its interests, any such autonomy for the east in a federal Ukraine
is rejected.
Poroshenko by trying to move Ukraine decisively into the west -and the EU-is only going to
alienate eastern Ukrainians even more as it seems that western Ukrainian ultra-nationalists
are pandered to but those whose economic interests are connected to Russia are not important
in any 'new' Ukraine.
As Anatol Lieven puts it, since Ukrainian independence 1991 it was obvious that 'Ukraine
contains different identities, and cannot be ruled unilaterally by one of them alone, or pulled
in a single geopolitical direction, without risking the breakup of the country itself'.
Since the Odessa Massacre, in which Right Sector paramilitaries played a role, and the growing
determination of Kiev to use military means to crush eastern militias it has become apparent,
that a good number of eastern civilians would not tolerate a Ukraine defined as only pro-West
and anti-Russian.
President Poroshenko has as yet failed to get rid of senior officials in Ukrainian National
Security and Defence Council such as Andriy Parubiy or Right Sector's Dmytro Yarosh. Without
that, civilians in the eastern regions are not going to feel that a Ukrainian army would not
be one of occupation.
Should the Ukrainian army kill scores more eastern civilians, then the possibility of the
majority of civilians in the Donbass wanting to remain as part of a federal Ukraine could evaporate
and the demand for independence gain traction. Then the way would be open to a Yugoslavian scale
civil war.
WearyofthisSht
The Ukrainian language will remain the only official language in Ukraine, Ukrainian President
Petro Poroshenko said.
"Living in a new way means that you cannot ignore the people's will, and living freely means
speaking freely in the native language and being guided by Article 10 of the Constitution, which
stipulates that the Ukrainian language is the only official language."
Didn't take long for Poroshenko to let S.E. Ukraine know what he thinks of their language rights.
Zippydoo
"Why don't they understand that every shell, rocket or bomb landing in Slaviansk, Donetsk,
Lugansk, etc. simply pulls the people of Novorussia together and brings more recruits to the
militias? "
I believe that it the whole point. If you look at the track record of the Nato/US aggression
around the world on behalf of their masters, they need to create an enemy to retaliate against.
Then they can complete the Ukrainian land grab, the IMF can do ongoing looting, pillaging and
military bases can be built next door to Russia - ready for the next step.
lids
Fairly obvious what is going on here. Europe wants an end to this nonsense and an end to
violence which requires an accommodation with Putin, whereas Neocons want Putin's head on a
stake. Poroshenko is a puppet of the CIA/Neocon agenda.
This can only mean one thing folks. Putin will be forced into military action, because the
supine european leaders are not prepared to stop Obama and his warmongering advisers.
NWObserver -> lids
Poroshenko may not be the Western puppet that many imagine him to be. He may keep barking
to keep the West and their puppets happy, but unlikely to bite.
The West has no choice to but back him as long as he keeps saying the things they want him
to. It will be interesting to see their reaction when he dismisses the Western appointed interim
government and appoints his own, to consolidate his hold.
lids
As ever Saker sees it for what it is;
Poroshenko's inauguration speech has sent a message to Novorossiia and Russia:
No federalization
No state status for the Russian language
No recognition of the Novorossian political leadership
Full and unconditional surrender of the Novorossian Defense Forces
Crimea will forever belong to the Ukraine.
He could not have been any clearer: that is basically a declaration of war and an ultimatum.
This is also a full endorsement of the "Banderastan project".
Clearly, the US has prevailed over the hoplessly spineless EU leaders like Merkel or Hollande
and the AngloZionists will have their way.
I must leave my computer for the next 12 hours and I cannot write a full analysis of Poroshenko's
decision to fully follow the US line, but I will say that two things appear inevitable now:
a Russian military intervention in Novorossia followed by the Cold War v2 the AngloZionists
wanted so badly.
Up until this moment the European colonies still had a chance to avoid a future which will
hurt them much more than it will hurt the US or Russia, but they could not even muster the willpower
to protect their own vital interests.
I am disgusted beyond words.
Oilyheart lids
VineyardSaker is right, if the Chocolatier really means it, then this is a recipe for ethnic
cleansing, which will force a Russian intervention.
Vlad Tatarsky
Considering the fact that the percentage of Russian population in Crimea is even higher than
in Donetsk and Lugansk it would be difficult to separate it again from Russia. After all that
experience of being ruled from Kiev the local Russians won't be so passive as in 1991 during
the next attempt. Also the language of cannons used by Kiev on the East would hardly encourage
anybody in Crimea, even Ukrainians and Tatars.
BTW it is quite a time since the last Guardian news from Lugansk region! Nothing happens
there, or it is better not to mention hundreds of killed civilians, destroyed homes and schools,
tens of thousands refugees with children having crossed Ukrainian-Russia border since the elections
won by Piotr Poroshenko? Such a drastic difference in coverage compared with Russian war in
Chechnya!
There is much doubt over the legality of this transfer as there was a requirement for a referendum
which was never carried out and the Supreme Soviet was inquorate.
Khrushchev said that those who signed the document must have been suffering from sunstroke
or hangovers.
This would mean legally Crimea was and still is a republic and is part of the Russian Federation.
Ukraine has no legal claim.
If NATO controlled the Crimea, Washington would get the prize of the Russian Black Sea Fleet's
port of Sevastapol.
Within 200 nautical miles of the Crimean shoreline there is an estimated 45 trillion cubic
meters of gas reserves and hydrocarbons. The Black Sea shelf could yield as much as 1.5 billion
cubic meters per year. Which could also explain Washington's sabre rattling.
GuyGagne, 07 June 2014 1:00pm
The refusal to renounce a territorial claim to Crimea is perfectly understandable. The seizure
of Ukraine military bases and infrastructure by Russian troops, who had left the bases where
they were entitled remain, was an illegal action. The outcome of the Crimean secession referendum
may have represented the will of the people, but it was conducted during an illegal occupation.
Of course, there was an anti-constitutional violent coup in Kiev, supported and encouraged
by America and Europe (who turned a blind eye to the fascist thugs, acting as the Maidan footsoldiers.)
And yes, Crimea was historically part of Russia. But none of this matters, because if we wish
for international law to exist in reality, rather than as a weapon to be wielded only by the
corrupt West against its enemies, then Russia must always respect the borders of other sovereign
nations. Russia didn't respect Ukraine's territorial integrity, so we are left with no ideals
or principles being defended on either side, which is very sad.
Anyway, beside his refusal to accept the new status quo in Crimea (which anyone could
have expected), Poroshenko appears to be trying to escalate the conflict, not defuse it (again,
not a surprise when you understand those who are his masters, and their agenda for the world.)
He will move towards full membership of the EU. He hasn't announced a cease fire, and he
refuses to talk with the separatist leaders. Wonderful.
GuyGagne GuyGagne, 07 June 2014 1:06pm
Oh and he says no to federalisation also, so absolutely no concessions or compromises on
the table whatsoever.
lids GuyGagne, 07 June 2014 1:07pm
Putin's occupation/referendum of Crimea took Washington completely by surprise because in
their view only they are allowed to ignore international law. In all reality international law
does not count for much if you take a look at everything that has happened in the last 15 years
or so.
Putin could always use Kosovo as a precedent and that is the danger of US/Nato ignoring international
conventions for human rights....
Take a look at Libya otherwise known as Mad Max World, Nato intervention there for yuman
rights over international law. You'd think someone in the West was strong enough to stand up
to Obama, but no, now we are headed for Cold War 2.
johnnydoe, 07 June 2014 1:02pm
In his inaugural speech he did not say anything new, just repeated what Turchinov and
Co have been saying (no amnesty for the DNR rebels, no federated Ukraine, no state status for
the Russian language). The civil war will continue.
AndreyR2008 putin_the_fabulous
The only state language in Ukraine is Ukrainian. All other languages are foreign languages
and are limited in use according to Ukrainian laws (should not be used as language of instruction
during teaching, TV broadcast and other mass media). All TV channels in Russian language are
banned. All radio channels in Russian language are banned.
lids
"Russia might pretend try to get a UNSC resolution supporting a peacemaking operation of
the CSTO in the Ukraine, if only just to make sure that all legal options have been exhausted.
Then I would expect to see a no-fly zone declared over the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, combined
with the opening, by force if needed (it will), of humanitarian corridors towards these regions.
At this point I expect the Ukie junta to fold and run, but if some units do not, they will be
destroyed. The purely military phase of this intervention will take no more than 24 hours and
will more or less stop at the administrative border between the Lugansk and Donetsk regions
and the Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhie regions. If directly threatened, of course, Russian
forces could strike deeper inside the rest of the Ukraine, targeting missile/artillery positions
or enemy airpower (in the air or on the ground). At this point I would expect some EU leader
to do what Sakozy did in 08.08.08 and travel to Moscow to agree to a ceasefire which Moscow
would accept. Once the situation in the Donbass is more or less stabilized, I would expect Russia
to pull out most of Russian forces, probably "forgetting a few "goodies" here and there, not
unlike what happened in South Ossetia. Finally, and especially if the EU continues to allow
the US to imposed its insane and counter-productive foreign policy (or what passes for it) on
Europe, I would expect Russia to recognize the People's Republic of Novorossia and provide it
with security guarantees (again, the model of Ossetia and Abkhazia applies).
Again, I would prefer if a solution could be found without an overt Russian military intervention,
but obviously that does not depend on me. The Americans are stuck, they have failed at everything,
and they have no other choice than to engage in a idiotic media campaign to convince the world
that "Putin has blinked" and that "Obama is a tough President". This is quite ridiculous, of
course, as this is not about a John Wayne style "blinking exercise" but about the future of
the European continent. But the European politicians are so corrupt, so spineless, so mediocre
and so incompetent (remember how Boris Johnson, Mayor of London called some of them "great supine
protoplasmic invertebrate jellies"?)
lids
Interesting backdrop to the proposed sanctions that will harm Europe just as much as Russia.
ECB dropped bank interest rate to negative this week because EU economy is tanking still.. There
is going to be a hell of a fight between Obomber and Europe about agreeing these sanctions.
Economic suicide even. Wonder what EU leaders will get for their "cooperation"
Poroshenko also said he intended to sign the economic part of an association agreement
with the European Union, as a first step towards full membership.
Barely a few weeks into his presidency and already Willy Wonka is promising far more than
he can (or is willing to) deliver to Ukrainians.
Crimea has bolted and there is no way Crimea will return to Ukraine if the majority of Crimeans
have any say in the matter. The fact that the Kyivsters have turned off the water supply to
Crimea has dissipated any remaining positive feeling the Crimeans might have had for their former
government.
Poroshenko is disingenuous about Crimea being an essential part of Ukraine. The peninsula
was given to Ukraine in 1954 to mark the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Pereyaslavl when
Bohdan Khmelnitski agreed to form an alliance with Russia against the Tatars and Ottomans, to
draw Ukrainians away from aiding former Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera still at large and
to make administration of the (then recently constructed) canal supplying fresh water from Ukraine
to Crimea easier. The transfer was done without debate or a referendum taking place in the Soviet
parliament of the time.
If Poroshenko is unwilling to consider a federal Ukraine and to include pro-Russian separatists
in a dialogue to resolve the crisis in eastern Ukraine, then he should reconsider whether to
continue as president or not. Unless everyone has a place at the negotiation table, all efforts
to deal with the crisis will come to nothing.
Poroshenko should know also that the EU does not intend to offer Ukraine full EU membership
unless and until Ukraine adopts all the conditions and accedes to all demands by the EU and
IMF to adhere to an austerity regime, throw open its markets and drop all tariffs to EU imports,
and change all its regulations and standards at the cost of several billion euros that the country
can ill afford. He has in effect committed Ukraine to running on an endless hamster wheel in
a cage the parameters of which will be changed continuously by the EU so no matter how hard
Ukrainians are forced to run, they will never quite catch up.
For their part, The Guardian staff have already forgotten recent history: Russia did not
annex Crimea, the Crimeans ran to Russia; and Yanukovych was never pro-Russian - his weakness
was to try to play the EU and Russia off each other in a way that he could benefit from - nor
was he forced to leave Ukraine by street protests but by violence from mysterious snipers shooting
at both Berkut and Maidan protesters. The Guardian does itself no honour by deliberately whitewashing
Ukraine and blackening Russia with such po-faced writing.
Kaiama
Leaving morals and legalities aside, I don't see anything optimistic.
Kiev will not get Kiev back. It is just an "excuse" stick to beat Russia with. The people
there would prefer to stay as part of the Russian Federation as they proved when they voted.
As far as I can see no-one is occupying buildings, police stations and city administration buildings.
And no-one in Crimea is calling for a referendum to rejoin Ukraine. The only people who want
Ukraine back are the Kiev government and their US backers (its now night vision goggles, radios
and body armour, not just MREs). Notice how by paying for all the non violent stuff the US frees
up the remaining Ukrainian budget to be spent exclusively on ammunition.
Next, Donetsk and Lugansk. Contrary to the absurd and wildly optimistic claims coming from
Kiev, it seems that they are in the process of losing complete control over the Eastern Ukraine
and a lot of military hardware. Its difficult to know the precise situation but it is clear
that the Ukrainian Border Guards haven't "closed" 8 border crossings, but run away from them
leaving control to the separatists. Poroshenko has effectively given them an offer of "amnesty"
if they (a) haven't "got blood on their hands" (whatever that means) and (b) they lay down their
arms. Poroshenko gave no undertaking to stop Kiev's military operations. The separatists have
been constantly attacked and no-one can seriously expect them to put down their arms with loads
of rabid western Ukrainian National Guard and mercenary (paid for by Kiev's oligarchs) units
roaming around. Only a few days ago Poroshenko was saying that he was going to crush the separatists
and that the operation would be accelerated. It doesn't look like compromise and dialogue to
me. The Eastern Ukraine will never be the same again, and, I suspect, will forge its own way
in the world, separate from Kiev. If the Eastern Ukraine stays in a Unitary Ukraine, it will
be devastated by (a) auterity (it can't compete with European efficiency) and (b) losing its
membership of the CIS customs union which allows goods to flow without duties both ways. If
it get duty free trade with the EU then Russia will be forced to implement the same duty regime
for Ukraine (to avoid goods flowing to Russia "import duty free"). This will also devastate
Eastern Industry. The East would, economically, be better off with Russia because this will
preserve its most important export market.
So, in summary, the Ukraine has been bankrupted by its oligarch political class, and will
be economically destroyed by the EU/US encouraged Kiev "government". I've seen Greece and Spain.
Ukraine will be next but 10x bigger.
siesta
USA's delegation to Porochenko's inauguration:
The Honorable Joseph R. Biden, Jr., Vice President of the United States, will be the
head of the delegation.
Other participants:
The Honorable Geoffrey R. Pyatt, United States Ambassador to Ukraine, Department of State
The Honorable John McCain, United States Senator, Arizona
The Honorable Ron Johnson, United States Senator, Wisconsin
The Honorable Chris Murphy, United States Senator, Connecticut
The Honorable Marcia "Marcy" Kaptur, Member of the United States House of Representatives
(OH-9)
The Honorable Daniel B. Baer, United States Representative to the Organization for Security
and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Department of State
The Honorable Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs,
Department of State
In the absence of adequate journalism/news blackout here is the sitrep for June 5. How many
people were aware that nazi death squads murdered dozens of already injured Donbas soldiers
in their hospital beds?
June 5th combat SITREP update by "Juan"
Красный Лиман Krasni Liman was taken by Ukraine Army and national guard 04 June 2014.
Replacement Mi24 attack helicopters have arrived in Ukraine as replacements for the Ukraine
Army losses in Donbas. Confirmed.
Strong bombardments Slavyansk City and outlying towns and villages commenced 05:00 local time
05.06.2014. Civilian casualties unknown.
National guard/right sector entered Railroad Hospital Krasni Liman and shot dead 37 wounded
Donbas Army soldiers and civilians and at least 1 hospital worker. Confirmed.
Air and artillery bombardments Krasni Liman cause strong civilian casualties 04.06.2014.
List of dead air attack on Lugansk Administration Building:
Kostjukov Vladimir Andreyevich,1971 (regional administration)
Corn Inna (regional administration)
Giza Alexander (regional administration)
Unidentified woman
Dolzenko Nina 1955 (regional administration)
Polezhaev Sergey 1964 (regional administration)
Natalia Arkhipova (regional administration)
Cerkez Galina 1967 (regional administration)
Confirmed reports national guard/right sector random shooting civilians Krasni Liman and searching
residences.
Border Guard Headquarters and one military base taken by Donbas Army 04.06.2014. Large amounts
of weapons and ammunition captured in both bases. Border Guard HQ prisoners allowed to change
to civilian clothes and leave base. Prisoners from military base unknown if allowed to leave
after surrender.
Name, rank and unit of Ukraine pilot SU25 attacked Lugansk Administration Building known. Complete
conversation of pilot with control before, during and after attack recorded by Donbas Army.
Beelza
If the EU/Americans opt for stage 3 sectoral sanctions ... Well Putin is not backing down.
Did you see the look on Putler's face during the group pictures yesterday. It was a look of
revulsion, utter contempt. The only time I saw him somewhat interested was during the group
photos, on the steps, and he was watching the Queen trip nearly to her death. He had a slight
break in his lips. I think Prince Charles may have been drunk. I've never, ever, seen him have
so many robustful belly laughs.
Now that Poroshenko has delivered his speech, I find this curious. Was Putin misinformed
about Poroshenko's "approach"? Or was Putin providing misinformation, as a way to set expectations?
I can't imagine that Putin or others in Russia find much to like in Poroshenko's speech.
RT's coverage seems subdued. (
http://rt.com/news/164412-poroshenko-ukraine-president-swear/
) Much of the language we see here in TG are absent from RT ("combative speech"). RT doesn't
even mention Crimea, which is obviously providing a lot of fodder for the Comments here. TG
doesn't mention that Poroshenko broke into Russia at one point.
All very curious. Wondering what others think.
loveminuso
07 June 2014 2:34pm
We'll after this declaration of war by the Candy Man on the poor People of Ukraine (I'm not
Russian or Ukrainian – Mr Dad is an American Expat), I humbly beg the awesome People of the
most powerful culture on Earth to reign in their Elected Public Servants/Employees please -
the American Patriots, the Firemen and Women, the First Responders, the Brave American Veterans
and serving soldiers, the small business owners, the American workers and teachers from everywhere,
the American Christians and those who have the freedom of other thought, the American Celebrities
and lastly, the American Poet. Help these people…they are not criminals and have a right to
life like you and me…Give them a voice! In God I trust…Amen.
The position on Crimea is a negotiating position only, it is not going back.
The repatriation of Crimea with Russia was a logical step to the Kiev coup.
The USA's own research after the referendum shows that Crimeans are happy with the result:
"For their part, Crimeans seem content with their annexation by Russia. Overwhelming majorities
say the March 16th referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought
to recognize the results of the vote (88%)."
If Crimeans want to be part of Russia, who cares what Obama, Cameron, Poroshenko, or even
Queen Victoria Nuland think.
irgun777
Poroshenko language is not different than the leaders from
Svoboda .
No federation -nationalistic approach,nothing to do with
the reality on the ground or the will of the people in the East. Even before the referendum
they consistently voted in all 5 independent elections for Pro Russian candidates.
He offers amnesty without guarantee of the rights of the Russian
people to use officially their own language,to have their schools
and institutions. All these were reduced dramatically under
Svoboda control of the Education Ministry. They also introduced taxes on Russian cultural products
as books and arts- Wiki
Poroshenko appears sad . He has enough experience as a former Foreign Minister and Chair
of Defence to know that an independent from Russia and NATO federation is the only solution
of the crisis. Then he can invite Crimea to join.
However his power is limited . There is to much nationalistic and outside pressure.
DrKropotkin irgun777
I think his lack of independent line is very telling. The thugs (Right Sector, Svoboda,
etc,) hold the true power in Ukraine. They got no more than their own membership to vote
for them in the election, but they still hold high level government posts. And now the new president
speaks their words. I saw an act were Tyahnybok drinks a glass of water while the president
outlines Ukraine's new policy for cleansing the West of "organised-mosovite-jewery".
The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, has used his inaugural address to stress that
the country would not give up Crimea...Poroshenko said: "Crimea was, is, and will be Ukrainian."
He was greeted with a standing ovation.
In related news, millions of women proclaimed they would not give up George Clooney to Amal
Alamuddin.
He stressed the unity of Ukraine, which is fighting a pro-Russian separatist uprising
in the east, and said it would not become a federalised state as advocated by Moscow.
Perhaps Poroshenko is unaware the official name of Crimea, when part of Ukraine, was The
Autonomous Republic of Ukraine? iow, Ukraine already was "federalised".
There are two kinds of leaders I don't like: those who are stupid, and those who think
everyone else is.
And yet, despite the use of artillery and air strikes, Kiev's military does not appear to
be able to regain control of the separatist regions.
... ... ...
But the tasks facing the new president are immense. There is no functioning police force, no
tax authority, no effective border control and no judiciary to speak of. The natural gas ultimatum
issued by Russia has expired, though Russian state-owned gas company Gazprom on Monday allowed Kiev
six more days in ongoing negotiations in Berlin. And Maidan is to be cleared and parliament dissolved.
On Wednesday, the president-elect met with US President Barack Obama in Warsaw and plans to fly
to D-Day commemoration events in Normandy on Friday. His inauguration is scheduled for Saturday.
And then he is planning on flying to the Donetsk region, where the military operation is underway.
... ... ...
There, the power is lying on the street, as a Russian adage would have it, and the "Donetsk People's
Republic" is doing what they can to harness that power. The 11-floor headquarters of the regional
administration, which had become a shelter for both criminals and the homeless since its occupation,
was "cleaned up" by the Vostok militia last Thursday, as self-proclaimed "premier" Alexander Borodai
put it. On the same day, bulldozers cleared away the barricades in front of the structure. The time
of chaotic revolution has passed, Borodai says. "As of today, this is the official government seat
of the Donetsk People's Republic."
Massacre in Eastern Ukraine
spon-facebook-10000830278 06/04/2014
Dozens of civilians have been killed in Eastern Ukraine in the first week after Poroshenko won
the election. Please see how with Obama's full support Kiev is bombing and killing the civilians
in Luhansk, and how the Ukrainian media lies about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJTwzeedFaQ
5. optional
peskyvera 06/05/2014
So, the US undertakes 'regime change' in Kiev, supporting extreme right-wing groups and all
the West can do is cheer on. Is this what millions of lives were sacrificed for in WW2? Fascism/Nazi-ism
becoming fashionable again? Is the West turning dumb, deaf and blind? Playing with a fire that
might prove too hot to extinguish.
6. Osce
ondels 06/05/2014
"...In Luhansk the situation remained volatile. On 2 June, shortly after 15:00 hrs, rockets
hit the occupied regional administration building. Based on the SMM's limited observation these
strikes were the result of non-guided rockets shot from an aircraft. The number of casualties
is unknown..." http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/119479
7. optional
spon-facebook-10000495912 06/06/2014
Our only hope for Ukraine is that serious talks can soon begin between the USA, Russia, the
EU, Kiev and local leaders from the East who don't feel represented by the newly elected government
in Kiev. This week would be a good chance to begin those talks. While it is great to see a glimmer
of hope in Ukraine after they have voted in a new president, it's a pity the people did not
have a wider choice, but it's a beginning at least. President Poroshenko,an oligarch is not
what one would call an honest statesman in the classical sense of the word. He has been involved
both directly and indirectly in politics for the past fourteen years. He has been a member or
close associate of the last four governments including that of Julia Tymoshenko, Yushchenko,
and lastly Yanukovych.
One can name him a Chameleon perhaps, or maybe somebody furthering his own business interests.?
Yanukovych before he was overthrown suggested a trilateral agreement between the Eu, Ukraine
and Russia, thus enabling his country to reach an agreement that was in their best interest,
whilst retaining a greater degree of independence. Russian foreign minister Lavrov agreed on
TV to this suggestion, but sadly Mr Barossa under enormous pressure from the US, declined stating,
: we do not make trilateral agreements. End of story. If this compromise was allowed to go ahead
we would be facing a completely different situation today. Germany and Finland who both have
major and rapidly growing economic interests in Russia have up until now managed to diffuse
the spiraling tensions by refusing to wholly support the sanctions that the US were putting
pressure on them to implement. I now hope that Poroshenko has the foresight and above all courage
to strike a similar deal. Such an agreement would satisfy both the disenfranchised people in
the east and west of the country, and put Ukraine in a much stronger position (Cherry picking)
as a puffer zone between the two economic spheres. At the moment of course the greatest obstacle
to this will be the agreements and contracts that the so called interm government illegal coup,have
already signed with the IMF, BP, Chevron ,reportedly also Monsanto, and perhaps many more. The
legality of these agreements must be contested and investigated.
who is fighting in Ukraine against the pro-federalists
spon-facebook-10000573988 06/07/2014
beside the blackwater mercenaries and the right-sector and svoboda criminals? "A large number
of terrorist Takfiri fighters in Syria, who bear Saudi and Chechnian nationalities and receive
financial and military backup from the Saudi intelligence agency, have been transferred to the
Ukrainian capital, Kiev, on several planes to help the Ukrainian army in its fight against the
pro-Russian population," an Arab security official told FNA on Sunday on the condition of anonymity
due to the secrecy of the issue. "The forces have been immediately dispatched to Kramatosk city
in Eastern Ukraine, and are now fighting beside the Ukrainian army forces against the pro-Russians
under the name of militias who support the government," the source added.
Poroshenko was and is the member of junta, the financial backer of Maidan and major Pro-Maidan propaganda
force with his Fifth channel. Politically he looks like Yushchenko II -- another puppet. So about what
changes in policy can we talk? Quote: "God Bless the Ukrainian people in their fight against the
psychopaths in Washington and Brussels. "
This means a lot of trouble for the people in the Ukraine, east AND west:
Ukraine's new president Petro Poroshenko said his country would never give up Crimea and would
not compromise on its path towards closer ties with Europe, spelling out a defiant message to
Russia in his inaugural speech on Saturday.
...
Poroshenko stressed the need for a united Ukraine and the importance of ending the conflict
that threatens to further split the country of 45 million people. He said it would not become
a looser federalised state, as advocated by Russia.
...
Poroshenko's speech drew an ovation from guests at a ceremony attended by Lithuanian President
Dalia Grybauskaite, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden and senior EU officials.
The Saker
calls the speech a declaration of war. That may well be right.
Russia will need to tighten the screws a bit. Be polite at the outside, concede in public but
make sure that Kiev will feel more and more pressure through secondary channels.
I doubt that the "west" will take any real risk over Ukraine or even put up enough money to save
it from ruin. In the end Ukraine will be alone facing a rather angry bear. If Poroshenko, as it
seems, thinks different, he is clearly deluded.
Virgile
Poroshenko's speech is just a bluff and a quest for legitimacy in the eyes of the EU and
USA and some of his desperate population.
He is a shrewd business man, he needs all the money he can get from his new found allies.
Therefore he has to say what they want to hear.
Once he gets the money then he will surely change his tone. He can't afford the continuation
of a civil war that may destroy Ukraine. NATO will never get involved in any military confrontation
with Russia.
Poroshenko has no choice than to turn to Poutine for everything else than money. The EU and
the USA are here for that. So he is exploiting them all. Poutine knows that very well and will
deal with it as shrewdly while idealist Europe and naive USA will discover it later. While they
all backed down from the disaster of the regime-change they executed in Libya, they wont be
able to back down so easily from their responsibility in Ukraine.
Poroshenko's Ukraine will be a new burden to ailing Europe.
plantman
Anonymous...I don't agree that "Poroshenko's speech is just a bluff and a quest for legitimacy
in the eyes of the EU and USA."
Poroshenko is a US stooge who says what he is told to say by his handlers.
And why would he be bluffing?
The US wants escalation, in fact, it cannot achieve its goal of deploying NATO without
escalation. Here's how it works: If killing civilians in the East doesn't work, then they'll
burn them alive in Odessa. If that doesn't work, they'll bomb schools, orphanages, hospitals
etc.
It doesn't stop until the US gets the reaction it wants, which is retaliation from Putin.
These guys don't give up. They never give up.
JSorrentine
Let's just add this shit to the list of US-driven propagandistic nonsense along the lines
of Assad must step down, this here's a red line bitches, Iran has nukes, Israel is a beacon
of democracy blah blah blah that and all the other shit that the US minions are forced to mouth
for more cash/power.
Members of the Billionaire Elite are called upon to say the stoopidest fucking things everyday
here in the US and 9 times out of 10 they're simply just mouthing crap meant to propagandistically
frame the faux "debates/discussions" for the chattering classes as they disseminate information
to the peons.
Now that Poro has staked out the "insane" cop stance the US will look more "reasonable/good
cop" when they propose their own "rational" alternatives which will obviously include the murder/maiming/displacement/endangerment
of many innocent people just not on as large of a scale as the original Poro "solution".
Again, this shit happens daily here in the US. Some member of the elite will say something
totally fucking crazy with no chance of the idea being implemented but it is consciously said
anyways to make the ensuing seemingly less fucking crazy ideas seem more rational.
Example:
Crazy fucker (insane cop): I want to gas every US citizen over 65 because they are a drain
on our resources!!
Peons: That's fucking crazy!!!
Crazy fucker's associate (saner cop): That gas idea IS crazy. Instead, I rationally propose
that we just totally eliminate Social Security and Medicare instead!
Peons: How reasonable!!!Thank God cooler heads prevailed!!!
So, instead of retaking Crimea like Poro says the US war criminals can now - just riffing
here - state something like:
While we think engaging in active combat over Crimea is an untenable solution we will compromise
and put a forward NATO base outside of Kiev where US troops will train the fledgling democrats
on our latest missile defense system.
Peons: Whew! At least we avoided at hot war! Obama, you so 11 dimensional!!Hillary 2016!!!
So while it's obviously still not a good thing for Ukraine and the innocent people involved
I believe this is just the war criminal elite setting - once again - the stage for what's really
to come. \
JSorrentine
Adding:
Instead of this "just not on as large of a scale as the original Poro "solution" I would
change it to read:
"just not on as BLATANT as the original Poro "solution"
The US war criminal elite have ZERO compunctions against how many people they kill/main/threaten/endanger
they just would rather do it sneaky-like if at all possible.
ToivoS
Those are just words from Poroshenko. No one would expect him declare that Crimea was no
longer part of Ukraine. To this day Georgia has not conceded S. Ossetia and Abkhasia, but we
all know that they will never be part of Georgia.
Right now, Poro has to put together a new government. If he wants to accomplish anything
he will have to get rid of the Svoboda Party and Right Sector people. It is not clear how the
neo-nazis will react to that development. One problem Poro has with calling an immediate cease
fire is that all of the neo-nazi fighters in eastern Ukraine would return to Kiev. Now that
would be a problem for him. If a peaceful and negotiated solution is his goal he has to worry
about the reactions in western Ukraine and well and the east.
TicoTiger
@11 ToivoS
Thanks for bringing some sanity to these hysterical postings. The chocolate oligarch is what
he is and his bluster is without substance at this point. Sounds like he uses the same speechwriter
as Kerry doesn't it? If he does not end the killings his reign will be short.
The reality on the ground is that each civilian death in eastern Ukraine and each piece of
the area's infrastructure destroyed makes real civil war that much more likely. The average
Ukrainian's traditional passivity is being ripped from them bit by bit and they are starting
to get really pissed off. Hardball starts soon. Military intervention by Russia gets closer
by the day as well, but on Putin's terms, not the western puppet-masters'. Note that just as
the Ukrainians are getting angrier, so are the Russian citizens. The media is beating the war
drums in Russia and Putin's support is unwavering. Only idiots would believe that Putin is weak.
Even Europeans are waking up. Only America sleeps on.
jayc
God Bless the Ukrainian people in their fight against the psychopaths in Washington and
Brussels.
The IMF said that the current conditions attached to the loans are based on a scenario maintaining
Ukraine's territorial integrity and specifically on a strong central government (i.e. no federalization).
If this scenario changes, then a new set of conditions - likely more draconian - will be imposed.
That is probably what is driving Poroshenko's rhetoric.
Right Sector strength: sources close to journalist Robert Parry said the hasty recognition
of the coup regime last February was based on a need to stabilize a government lest the Right
Sector take over entirely. A Frankenstein monster enabled by the West, and probably beyond control
still. Confirmation of the report that Right Sector militia was being trained in Poland last
September will establish whether this mess has been improvised or plotted.
Poroshenko says Ukraine will never give up Crimea; calls for a unified, pro-European country
and rejects separatists
Ukraine's new President Petro Poroshenko said his country would never give up Crimea and would
not compromise on its course toward closer ties with Europe, spelling out a combative and defiant
message to Russia in his inaugural speech on Saturday.
The 48-year-old billionaire took the oath of office before parliament,
buoyed by Western support but facing an immediate crisis in relations with Moscow as a pro-Russian
separatist uprising seethes in the east of his country. He called for dialogue with the east, but
said he will not talk with rebels he called "gangsters and killers."
Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula in March, weeks after street protests ousted Poroshenko's
pro-Moscow predecessor, Viktor Yanukovich, in a move that has provoked the deepest crisis in Ukraine
since the end of the Cold War.
"Citizens of Ukraine will never enjoy the beauty of peace unless we settle our relations with
Russia. Russia occupied Crimea, which was, is, and will be Ukrainian soil," Poroshenko said in a
speech that drew a standing ovation.
He told this to Russian President Vladimir Putin
when the two met on Friday at a World War II D-Day anniversary ceremony in France, he said.
Poroshenko, who earned his fortune as a confectionery entrepreneur and is known locally as the
"Chocolate
King," said he intended very soon to sign the economic part of an association agreement with
the European Union, as a first step toward full membership. This idea is anathema to Moscow, which
wants to keep Ukraine in Russia's sphere of influence.
Poroshenko stressed the need for a united Ukraine and the importance of ending the conflict that
threatens to further split the country of 45 million people. He said it would not become a looser
federalized state, as advocated by Russia, but he did call for early regional elections in the east
and promised to push for new powers to be allotted to regional governments.
"There can be no trade-off about Crimea and about the European choice and about the governmental
system. All other things can be negotiated and discussed at the negotiation table. Any attempts
at internal or external enslavement of Ukraine will meet with resolute resistance," he said.
Hours after the speech, Putin ordered security tightened along Russia's border with Ukraine to
prevent illegal crossings, Russian news agencies said. Ukraine claims that many of the insurgents
in the east have come from Russia; Poroshenko on Saturday said he would offer a corridor for safe
passage of "Russian militants" out of the country.
Pro-Russian rebel leaders in the east dismissed Poroshenko's speech.
"This statement doesn't concern us," said the self-declared prime minister of the Donetsk People's
Republic, Alexander Borodai, according to the RIA Novosti news agency.
Poroshenko offered amnesty to rebels who "don't have blood on their hands." But this has been
met with skepticism. "I don't believe it," said Valery Bolotov, the insurgent leader in the Luhansk
region. Rebels in both Luhansk and Donetsk have declared their regions independent.
"I will bring you peace," the new president promised, but did not indicate whether Ukrainian
forces would scale back their offensives against the insurgency.
Russia has insisted on Ukraine ending its military operation in the east. Ambassador Mikhail
Zurabov, representing Moscow at the inauguration, said Poroshenko's statements "sound reassuring,"
but "for us the principal thing is to stop the military operation." He added that the insurgents
should also stop fighting in order to bolster the delivery of humanitarian aid, RIA Novosti reported.
In his inaugural address, attended by U.S. politicians including Vice President Joseph Biden,
Sen. John McCain and Democratic Rep. Marci Kaptur, Poroshenko called for dialogue with "peaceful
citizens" in the east. "I am calling on everyone who has taken arms in their hands - please lay
down your arms," he said.
He also said he would seek early parliamentary elections because "the current composition of
the parliament is not consistent with the aspirations of the nation." The current parliament, elected
in 2012 with a large contingent from Yanukovich's former party, is to stay in place until 2017.
Poroshenko insisted that Ukrainian would remain the sole state language of the country, but promised
"new opportunities for the Russian language." He did not give specifics.
...As for Poroshenko, it is also not as simple as can be, many people think. Yes, he oligarch
and purely by reflex will enrich himslef at the expense of the state, but he always had big
political ambitions. As far as I know, he really wanted to be President. So to the best of my
understanding he will try to defend the interests of Western and Central Ukraine.
The first goal he sees the suppression of the armed resistance at South East, but with the
subsequent peace rebellious regions moderately generous concessions, such as the granting of
Russian language and local government (or the riot will Mature here permanently). And then the
beginning of normalization of relations with Russia. Of course, on his own terms.
The political logic dictated to him and what many perceived as sensation: he asked the European
Union to postpone the signing of economic agreements. That is exactly the thing that Yanukovych
was overthrown for by .the Maidan.
Meanwhile, Poroshenko is clearly committed to the continuation of the policy of maneuvering
of all his predecessors at the post of President, although Moscow, in his opinion, no longer
should challenge a strong trend towards the West.
...As for Poroshenko, it is also not as simple as can be, many people think. Yes, he oligarch
and purely by reflex will enrich himslef at the expense of the state, but he always had big
political ambitions. As far as I know, he really wanted to be President. So to the best of my
understanding he will try to defend the interests of Western and Central Ukraine.
The first goal he sees the suppression of the armed resistance at South East, but with the
subsequent peace rebellious regions moderately generous concessions, such as the granting of
Russian language and local government (or the riot will Mature here permanently). And then the
beginning of normalization of relations with Russia. Of course, on his own terms.
The political logic dictated to him and what many perceived as sensation: he asked the European
Union to postpone the signing of economic agreements. That is exactly the thing that Yanukovych
was overthrown for by .the Maidan.
Meanwhile, Poroshenko is clearly committed to the continuation of the policy of maneuvering
of all his predecessors at the post of President, although Moscow, in his opinion, no longer
should challenge a strong trend towards the West.
The Last but not LeastTechnology is dominated by
two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage and those who manage what they do not understand ~Archibald Putt.
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