We
can speak of Ukraine as
the controlled by the USA territory managed by a conglomerate of fighting or interacting oligarchic clans. Oligarchic republic if
you wish.
Many consider Zelensky to a puppet. He is. But more correctly he is a
Neoliberal Comprador. You can't lead a weak, peripheral neoliberal state and be free from the
complete dominance of the USA as a center of the neoliberal world, who controls the world financial system.
You also needs to be a debt salve and as such will be looted by transnational financial institutions.
That was clearly achieved in Ukraine
where standards of living dropped to sub-Saharan Africa levels and are close to two dollars a day
(approximately 1500 hrivna a month) for certain categories of population, especially pensioners. In 2008, only 47 percent of the
population of sub-Saharan Africa lived on $1.25 a day or less. (United Nations 2012).
Germany in this story acted like a real neo-imperial power using the smoke screen of "democracy"
to achieve imperial goals -- get the new markets for German industry. It's the same behavior
it demonstrated with Greece: pay the debt poor Ukrainians.
The threat to the Bank was explicit enough. Alastair Crooke wrote: “And The Wall Street Journal
in a front page tap on Angela Merkel’s shoulder- reminding her to vote “yes” on the next “level-3″
round of Russian sanctions- warned that “Deutsche Bank’s US operations suffer from a litany
of problems…” The WSJ article is behind a pay wall.
Nude pictures? a lesbian? a murky past? Those are nothing that a little spin can’t take care
of as pointed out above. Merkel serves at the pleasure of the German elites and she would be
thrown under the bus if she became a serious liability. Merkel is not the problem.
The US
has Germany by the short hairs for sure but its not through some personal scandal. The US may
[have] a kill switch on the Germany/EU financial system. Further speculating, all that NSA spying
may have led to discovery of vulnerabilities in the German financial system, again as mentioned
above.
The US seems to have the ability to inflict massive pain on Germany, its elites and its general
population to account for German obedience. It seems likely to be a financial bludgeon that
the US is ready to swing. The blow back could take down the US financial system but, the Anglo
elites will still do quite well in a material sense and that is the only thing that matters.
France is also not that much different. Russia while neoliberal power in itself was actually the
most benign "neocolonialist" among the troika. Poland has its own neoimperial goals in Ukraine too.
US is much worse then all European, especially Franch version of neolocolinialim. It really loot the country providing
little in return. The USA embassy essentially fully controls Ukrainian government. We can cite the opinion of the leader of the "Eurasian choice - Georgia" Archil Chkoidze. Here is what he said about Zelensky and his cabinet:
"This is controlled by the Americans puppet government, and their hands are used for carrying
out genocide of the Russian people. The government Zelensky is very similar to the former
government of Georgia led by Saakashvili. In 2008, the authorities of Georgia did the same
when they bombed Tskhinvali,"
But being controlled does not explicitly means that the puppet needs to pursue suicidal economic policy.
Provisional government in its nationalistic intoxication
did exactly that launching ATO (with gentle encouragement from Washington; ATO was launched after Brennan clandestine (under flase
name) visit to Ukraine) and forever splitting the country. Yatsenyuk and Turchinov should
probably be tried before high court for the betrayal of the country. Another comment from Guardian
Scipio1 -> MonsieurPetanque, 09 July 2014 1:05pm
''It is also noteworthy that the word “junta” has disappeared from Russian state media’s
descriptions of the government of Ukraine.
And in turn from the lexicon of many posters here.''
You can put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig. Interesting report from the
BBC man in Slavyansk yesterday. It ended with the journalists observing that in addition to
the Ukrainian flag being hoisted, there was also the black and red flag of Pravy Sektor
on view. Of course I will be diplomatic and call them by their name of convenience, to
wit the National Guard. I wonder what these gentlemen are up to? social work perhaps? Or winning
hearts and minds?
Funny, what comes to my mind is 'disappearing' now that the atrocity de jour - incinerating
your opponents a la Odessa is temporarily off the agenda.
Two points to make about Zelensky:
He is not making the decisions, the US State Department and CIA are.
His invasion of the East is a nasty, kid-killing exercise, example of the type of
ideological total war which is not uncommon in this part of the world.
In literal terms he may not be a Nazi but he certainly has them at his back domestically
baying for blood which he needs to satisfy (having first cleared it with his Washington
masters of course.)
In terms of ending the war, how do you seal a frontier - Russian/ Ukraine 1500 miles long.
It is foolish to imagine that the Don Bass people are not going to fight on. There will be no
agreement without their consent and Putin and Porshenko had better realise this. Big power decisions
taken over the heads of people seldom leads to peace.
A good analogy has been the British struggle against the nationalists in Ireland. Whatever
they Republic did to aid the process of the British campaign - closing the border, outlawing
the IRA, imprisoning nationalist in the south - the IRA continued their campaign for decades.
Eventually the British authorities had to negotiate an uneasy peace conceding many points.
Ruling by force alone never works and the legitimate concerns of the local people need to
be addressed. However, Zelensky and his Washington masters have brushed this aside with their
brutal campaign in the east. The scene is now set for an on-going low intensity war with no
visible end in sight.
Against, being a stooge of US embassy is not bad per ser. You can play on contradictions
within the US elite and government institutions, for example on the State Department and its obsessive desire to hit Russia as hard as possible. Moreover,
Ukraine is not alone. Most European politicians are now to a certain extent US puppets for the simple reason the USA is the most
powerful country in neoliberal world, the center of neoliberal empire. Which enforces Pax Americana.
Whether this is a fatal flaw or hidden advantage much depends on the level of talent of particular
politician. The USA as the most powerful country in the world can do a lot of good for "client" country
with proper "encouragement". For example you get more free access to tremendous amount of valuable US
technical "know how". Which is a big competitive advantage. US companies also invest more readily in
the country which is "in good relations" with Washington.
Adoption of English language as an official or "semi-official" language and requirement for government
workers to pass an exam in this language also can dampen the animosity between Ukrainian nationalists
and Russian speaking population of the South East (actually there are not two but three main languages
in Ukraine -- Western Ukrainian dialect, Russian language and
Surzhyk -- mixed dialect widely used
in rural areas of central provinces such as Kiev and Poltava as well as in border areas of Moldovia)
.
Teaching certain subject in English in Univrsities and even high school is definably more acceptable then conversion to
Ukrainian schools, as depth and breadth of Ukrainian culture can not compare with depth and breadth
of Russian culture, but Anglo-Saxon culture can compete with Russian culture on its own merits. It is
a the most rich, dominant world culture in addition to being the language of world technological powerhouse. The word "Silicon Valley"
and Hollywood resonate in Ukraine no less then in other countries. And that creates strong attraction
to such a culture and such a country. Also all countries can borrow quite a bit from the US law and
law practice, especially in such areas as the fight with organized crime.
But you need certain level of flexibility and to have own political base to operate in this mode.
And being simultaneously hostage of the far right Zelensky lacks this flexibility. This make him somewhat
tragic figure. Zelensky can and would like to find a political settlement South-East
crisis, but the pressure from radical forces him to rely on brute force only.
Poroshenko was the financier of February coup d'état and as such he was a shadow member of junta
from the very beginning. Previously he also financed Orange revolution and was one of "lyubi drizy"
-- corrupt inner circle of President Yushchenko. Zelensky does not have such a legacy.
Presidential elections had shown that he does enjoy support of Western Ukraine. It it unclear how long it will last.
The main purpose of those previous Presidential elections was to legitimize junta. And the first significant
events of Poroshenko presidency was dramatic intensification of civil war of South East (capturing Slavyansk
and several other cities and then cutting Donetsk from Lugansk and
shooting down of Malaysian flight
MH17. I suspect that this is why generally neoliberal tandem
of Turchinov (aka Trupchinov) and Yatsenyuk (aka Yats the Stooge) were forced to start bloody campaign for pacification of South
East.
Poroshenko rejected federalization of the country and granting Russian language the status of the second state language. Actually
using Russian does not mean betraying the independence goals. Great Britain and the USA are called two countries separated by the
common lanaguage. Canada also uses two languages and has no plans to switch to French in order to lessen its dependence on the USA.
There are other similar examples.
In this sense the idea that Zelensky can manage to stop the bloodshed in the South-East is hard
to believe. While probably not completely subservient in all areas of internal policy, in this particular
sphere President is most probably a complete marionette which doesn't decide anything. May be personally
he would be glad to stop the war, but he is afraid that in this case he would immediately need to change
his place of residence like Yanukovich in the past.
Zelensky also need to deal with the situation when oligarchic clans such as Kolomoisky clan, Timoshenko clan and others who gathered around himself fanatics, thugs, and lumpens can be called death squads
are the real rulers of the country.
Kolomoisky represent a painful thorn in the back of Zelensky. Army of Kolomoisky is financed by
the state and by Kolomoisky, but they report directly to him. The same is true for foreign
mercenaries hired by Kolomoisky. It is not clear whom Right sector obeys, but it is also partially financed
by the same Kolomoisky. How Zelensky in this situation can stop the fighting? .
Great Article – Ukrainians are stuck into taking Pfizer jabs. They are being forced
or at least are told that they can Not get or use Sputnik V inside Ukraine.
@fyi 30 Russia has nothing to gain from invading Ukraine. She refused to do so in 2014.
Putin was never happy about the Donbass insurrection, just could not get them crushed and
massacred because the Russion people would not have understood nor accepted that. Russia had
the opportunity to occupy if not all of Ukraine then at least Novorossija (all the east and
northeast from Charkov to Odessa oblast) three times at minimum since 2014. From a merely
military point of view they could do it anytime within a week, or faster. They had even
larger exercises than the latest transferring 300k servicemen with full equip from the far
east and central Siberia to the western part.
The political repercussions would be grave. NS2 would certainly the first victim. And for
which gain? Russia, instead of EU and (to some extent, US) had to foot the bill for that
bankrupt failed state. As to the popular uprising, even when real (or just PD), there was a
popular uprising against the Nazis in Donbass. NATO sides with Nazis, the Greens love them.
German Chancellor aspirant Annalena Baerboeck boasted before the Atlantic Council, that her
Grandpa in winter 1945 (together with his Hitler Wehrmacht and SS comrades) fought "for the
reunification of Europe" - against the evil Russkis.
The West is already fighting for and alongside with Nazis, also in those Baltic
shitholes.
Odessa is not likely to be attacked by Russia in spite of the city's past historical
associations with Russia. If everyone is expecting a Russia attack on Odessa then NATO
strategies in the Black Sea will be based on such an assumption. So Russian strategy must be
based on what everyone least expects the Russians to do.
If the Russians were so minded as to want to cut off Ukrainian access to the Black Sea,
they could do so by building up their naval forces at the Kerch Strait and near Sevastopol,
as
a show of force. If they were to target a city, not that they need to, that city would be
Mariupol on the Azov Sea.
I suspect most people in Odessa and Mikolayiv in SW Ukraine are by now so fed up with Kiev
that they would, if given an opportunity, switch their loyalties to Russia without the
Russians having to fire a shot.
Summits are good - if they are successful. But when they fail, potentially crashingly, they
can quickly lead to escalation. Biden is just as much in his fifties as his predecessor. This
generation is not capable of coming to terms with the current power situation. For them, the
usa is still the undisputed leading power. They act accordingly arrogantly. Geneva could
backfire - on all of humanity.
Sorry Aquadraht but my smartphone changed your name in my comment @ 38. I was too busy fixing
up other deliberate changes my smartphone was making to my comment to notice.
1.Putin has already won the hearts of humanity.
2.The purpose of computing accelerated algorithms have been useful tools of economics,
politics & psychopaths.
3.The favorite play of Joe is the dumb dementia card. Let's not forget the badass boss his
authentic meanness projects.
4. Narily consuming news, I have observed a financial front setup for the dollar demise in
Russia via some big fund there. Equally important is their positioning a system of trade that
excludes SWIFT. (I read it on this blog) What's the point of BIS killing Putin? Just out of
hate, spite, what? No. Hes got an elite euro pedigree. I expect a mean Joe in Switzerland
with all his marbles lined up. Putin won't quake, then what will the Pentagon play be?
Thanks b.
Expect nothing.
Biden is a cold war thug and a Russia hater. Being his age he will be running on his 20's
brain cells and memories and prejudices. He was the Obummer point man in Ukraine and Kurt
Volker with that belligerent mind set are likely music to Biden's ears. Biden just has to
reassert that the killers are back in charge after the tragi-comedy of Trump and the clown
cart. Biden has a mission to merely demonstrate the return of the magi
neo-cons.
Yes it will fail. It will be seen as pathetic at first and a week later as useless.
The USA has NEVER grasped the flower of peace and no world leader has offered that flower
so consistently as has Putin or lately Xi. And yet the USA shits on their hand of greeting.
This is a tragedy for all across this world as we witness the idiocy of squandered resources
on military might.
I do not expect the USA to clean house and sack the colony of warmongers occupying their
foreign policy advice team. I suspect the state is not in control of its destiny but rather
run by a self perpetuating mindset within the military/academia/media that glorifies itself,
ensures its succession, and then glorifies itself some more. An echo chamber of ego, fear and
loathing.
Passer by@44 I firmly believe that history books still need massive infusions of facts, but I
am not an adherent of Critical Race Theory, which substitutes moralizing for scientific
analysis, only to do a bad job with the morals (notably, the notion of collective hereditary
guilt plays a major part in much of it...and CRT is deliberately left vague so that the more
extreme positions can be reserved while more reasonable ones are defended in lieu.) And I
also believe that re-defining "democracy" as "social democracy" while ignoring how democracy
is class collaboration in pursuit of national conquest (or defense when things go badly.)
Pretending that the past democrats weren't is a way of flattering ourselves that we are so
enlightened we know better and will have true democracy as soon as we reform the bad people's
minds. It's opposing an imaginary ideal to a straw man reality in defense of illusions. The
fundamental motive I think is anti-communism, but that's my opinion I guess. The multipolar
world of 1900 wasn't unipolar because "white," that's hare-brained CRT crap in my judgment. I
don't agree with it.
But history books really need to concentrate on what happened without moralizing on
motives, which are always mixed. Children will grow up and figure that out eventually, except
for the religious ones who mentally consign others to hell.
Babylon 5 is a space war TV series, so if the argument is supposed to be that multipolar
is more peaceful, the logic escapes me. If the idea is that if "states" are equal, then it's
democratic strikes me as ideology. In the US, the idea that this or that state has rights
that ordinary people do not (variations on residual sovereignty usually,) has *never* been
essential to progress. The people having rights, majority rule, yes. But those things and
states' rights rarely even aligned. States' rights to maintain slavery or Jim Crow are the
primary examples. But I can't think of any real states' rights that work out to progress for
real people, as opposed to legal abstractions like a state. Consider the attitude of the
federal government to the states' right to decriminalize/legalize marijuana.
fyi 30
What you wrote about Ladakh and China vs. India is rubbish too (as always when you cluelessly
write about China). As MK Bhadrakumar detailed a while ago, it is not China who is the bully
in the Himalayas and Kashmir/Jammu. It is India who constantly changed the status quo by
occupations and annexions like in Sikkim, and with Nepalese territories too.This was the case
under the congress governments already to some extent, and radicalized with the Hindutva
fascists of Janata/RSS in power. It is them who build tens of military airfields and roads
around the LAC, deploying ten thousands of servicemen.
China is not interested in conflicts. It wants to guarantee the safety of the
Sichuan-Tibet-Xinjiang Highway which is crucial for the development of Western Chinese
provinces. It is the Janata regime who tries to menace and cut that connection.
China made a ton of modest and reasonable proposals, from Zhou Enlai's memorandum in 1954
on, to settle all border disputes and uncertainties in the Himalayas. And though China kicked
the Indian's butts miserably in 1961, they pulled back from Southeast Tibet, the area India
boasts as Arunachal Pradesh, British robbery prey from the Chinese empire.
The nationalist and fascist fools in Delhi have nothing real to win in the Himalayas. They
are fighting uphill, and face tremendous cost for their poor country. They continue
provocations though.
@ 46 spudski.. me either... everyone i know has one though.. oh well.. they will just have to
catch up with us!
@ 50 aquadraht... what you have to realize is fyi filters everything thru his religious
bigotry... once you figure that out - then it all becomes obvious why he concludes what he
does... it is all based on a narrow religiously intolerant position...
Very good, though I'm doubtful about the weapons worry. Isn't it the case that 1) both sides
still have significant ICBM and sub-based MRBMs? 2) Isn't it also the case that neither side
has reliable anti-ballistic missile defenses? Aren't we still very much living under a
Mutually Assured Destruction paradigm? So what if the Russians have hypersonic missiles? Are
they going to be able to saturate US missile launching systems? No.
I have a hard time believing we want war. To take on an enemy with the manpower and
productive capacity of China would be suicidal. If there is an alliance between Russia and
China and you throw in Russia's natural resources - doubly so. My take is that what we want
is an excuse to continue spending on defense - it's a business model - and Russia provides
the bogeyman.
Whatever Washington could throw at Russia, the residual Russian forces would penetrate
American defenses and wreak havoc on the American homeland.
You're being polite here.
Russia's nuclear arsenal would do much more than "wreak havoc on the American homeland":
it would reduce its entirety into a radioactive wasteland. There would be no
redneck-in-the-middle-of-Wyoming standing after such attack. The USA would become some kind
of cursed land where nothing grows for millennia.
Russian Government does not need to directly intervene then; a series of small incidents
could be caused during which the city of Odessa organizes a self-defense Unit called Rus
Protection Force and asks for help from Lugansk People's Republic.
The key consideration is to deny a legitimate beach head to the NATO forces.
In any case, I think the Russian Government is resigned to another decade or more of
confrontation with West; they already have concluded that the sanctions against the Russian
Federation will never be removed, that they would be ejected from SWIFT, and should invest
more in autarky lest they reprise the experience of Iran.
The US aircraft you were searching for is the F-15. The new version is the F-15EX which is
now in production after the Gulf states handily paid for the bulk of the R&D. Initially
it will replace the old F-15C/D single seat interceptors but in the longer term will also add
to or replace the F-15E multirole fighter/bomber. There is no overlap in functionality
between the F-15EX and the F-35.
Thank you for that rebuttal. Fyi, I sense the writer is a china russia basher lurking
behind a thin masquerade of faux shia sophistication and all intended to give shia a bad
name. Tacky.
There is a drink waiting for you at the bar of excommunicated souls ;)
In 1900 the world was more unipolar than any time in the last 3000 years. Anglo
colonialism was at a peak, Caucasians directly controlled Africa and South East Asia. white
Colonialism and genocide were everywhere. China was still crushed by European powers, Russia
was incredibly weak.
It takes a lot of word salad and spinning to say the world in 1900 was multi-polar.
Doesn't matter what you think if critical race theory...that has zero relevance here.
>>Babylon 5 is a space war TV series, so if the argument is supposed to be that
multipolar is more peaceful, the logic escapes me
Well, it was a film about different civilisations overcoming war and conflict - the whole
point about constructing the Babylon 5 space station was to avoid war and to find ways to
communicate with each other, no matter how different the various space species can be.
The multipoar space station was constructed after a disastrous Earth War against another
space civilisation, in order to fix conflicts in the Galaxy.
I really recommend you that Sci Fi series.
>>The multipolar world of 1900 wasn't unipolar because "white,"
Unless you are from another race, in which case you will see massive white dominance all
over around the world during those years.
>>Babylon 5 is a space war TV series, so if the argument is supposed to be that
multipolar is more peaceful, the logic escapes me
Well, it was a film about different civilisations overcoming war and conflict - the whole
point about constructing the Babylon 5 space station was to avoid war and to find ways to
communicate with each other, no matter how different the various space species can be.
The multipoar space station was constructed after a disastrous Earth War against another
space civilisation, in order to fix conflicts in the Galaxy.
I really recommend you that Sci Fi series.
>>The multipolar world of 1900 wasn't unipolar because "white,"
Unless you are from another race, in which case you will see massive white dominance all
over around the world during those years.
Yes, that seems like a fair assessment. In 1900 there was indeed not only rivalry between
european-american colonial powers, but also between European Colonial Powers and powerful
European countries who were at disadvantage for lack of colonies...Germany.
Here's what's goin' down. (According to my 95% WRONG predictions.) Nothing whatever of the
slightest importance will be discussed at the Putin/Biden 'summit'. No significant accords
will be established, and virtually nothing will occur. EXCEPT:
This will be a rollicking Royal Send-Up for the benefit of Joe Biden. Why? The logic is
dirt simple. Biden is always on the hairy edge of being removed from office for
incapacitation. Russia would then be dealing with the amateur and insanely aggressive Kamala
Harris. It's about sticking with the Devil You Know.
Therefor, Putin will provide the feeble Joe Biden with an all-in Royal Send-Up. Putin will
praise Biden to the heavens. He will even toss in some empty but hugely auspicious
'concession'. Which will be hailed by the indentured media as a Tremendous Victory.
All solely to keep the feeble Master of Bargain Basement Politics in 'charge'.
>>In 1900 the world was more unipolar than any time in the last 3000 years. Anglo
colonialism was at a peak, Caucasians directly controlled Africa and South East Asia. white
Colonialism and genocide were everywhere. China was still crushed by European powers, Russia
was incredibly weak.
It takes a lot of word salad and spinning to say the world in 1900 was multi-polar.
Doesn't matter what you think if critical race theory...that has zero relevance here.
In my previous comment @8 above, I concurred with b that a significant faction within the
Outlaw US Empire's elite governing aparat are delusional while other factions are very much
aware of the stark reality of the Empire's condition--particularly its domestic condition. A
shining example of this was published today by Global
Times , of which there are three total articles I hope barflies will read, although
they might have read the first two as I linked and commented about them when they were
published. Franz Gayl is a 64-year-old retired US Marine major who worked at the Pentagon as
an analyst and wrote two reality-based articles for publication by Global Times for
what are obvious reasons when read--the Outlaw US Empire has zero chance of winning a war
against China over Taiwan, and he advocated against such a stupid undertaking. But reality
just cannot be mentioned--the Narrative Must Hold at All Costs!!--as with the continuous
stream of lies about the state of the USA's economy that have been ongoing since Reagan and
his VooDoo Economics. For a self-declared Christian nation, it most certainly has
forgotten--buried very deeply--the admonition from Proverbs 16:18: Pride goeth before the
fall. And genuine patriots like Franz Gayl get crucified for trying to avert that fall. Just
like wanting to kill Assange for telling the truth--the Outlaw US Empire is facing the same
stark reality that Gorbachev and the USSR faced in the early 1980s. And guess what, Putin
just said that's exactly what the USA's facing today at the SPIEF to the heads of global
media:
" But problems keep piling up. And, at some point, they are no longer able to cope with
them. And the United States is now walking the Soviet Union's path, and its gait is confident
and steady." [My Emphasis]
At least Clueless Joe @11 sees through the bologna and gets it correct. I highly suggest
this op/ed . As Putin
told the global media heads, Russia is all about Russia and Russians, and is willing to
partner with other nations that can aid Russia in its development that's aimed at benefitting
all Russians . Defending genuine strategic interests is NOT Imperialism. the big
problem for the Outlaw US Empire is that since WW2's end it's seen the entire planet as its
strategic interest, which was the first post-war BigLie it told to itself and swallowed
whole.
The key characteristics of the SOCIOECONOMIC system of a suzerainty are hierarchy, polarization and exploitation. This enables
the Global Financial Syndicate to drive PRIVATE CONTROL by privatization, extracting profits and increasing its power. Without
this system it can't survive, capture new entities and increase its power.
In analyzing any situation one need to understand the POWER DYNAMICS. This enables one to understand the hierarchy of religions,
nations, corporations, elites,...There seems to be a well defined playbook that is being followed to expand the global power.
However, now it seems to be failing?
Is this a good chart of the
POWER PLAYERS
driving U$A's and international developments?
(Solid lines refer to funding and dashed lines refer to mostly ideological connections)
Are there better charts and overview of the power players?
If one were to view Israel from an imperialist lens then it is a beachhead in the Middle East of the Financial Empire like
the Colony of Virginia (1606). The IMPERIALIST goal is to create a Middle East Union (MEU), similar to the United States and the
EU. Israel will be the financial, technological, military and trading hub of the ME? It will drive decimation of states to steal
the region's land, oil gas and natural resources, so they can be priced in the Empire's currency.
What were the strategies and tactics used by the Imperialist settlers to steal land from the Native Americans? Wasn't (freedom
of) religion one of the dimensions? How was the LAND stolen from natives of America? Weren't treaties made in bad faith? "In 1830,
US Congress passed the Indian Removal Act, forcing many indigenous peoples east of the Mississippi from their lands."
Ayn Rand framed
it as ... to the graduating Class Of U$A's military academy at West Point
Which of the past patterns of stealing land and getting rid of the natives are being repeated by Israel? We're watching a tragedy
and living through an epoch in the history of humanity.
One more thing... MECHANISM of power & control expansions to capture resources and control points...
Is this a good overview of what happened in
Ukraine? It discusses various power players,
plans and ploys.
"Anyone who does not understand contemporary history as a chain of decisions and events and instead always takes only the end
link of a long chain into account – will not understand anything at all."
"We must cultivate among the Ukrainians a people whose consciousness is altered to such an extent, that they begin to hate
everything Russian". -- Who said this & why?
The Dollar Empire is working towards neutralizing Russia through short term concessions. Russia has defined redlines and demanded
no interferences with Nord Stream 2, Belarus, Syria & Ukraine (implementation of the Minsk agreement). Also, no NATO membership
for Ukraine and Georgia. Russia wants to develop Iran and Turkey as regional powers, and be the third power to that of the U$A
and China. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
So Zelensky first initiated the crisis (or was pushed by the USA to initiate as he is essentially a marionenete) and then cried the "millions lived are at stake"
IMHO Putin should demand the March 24 Ukrainian declaration of war with the Russian
Federation be immediately rescinded, before any talks or discussions. And Putin should demand
the Ukraine put an immediate stop to joining NATO.
Putin should demand the Ukraine take a page from Switzerland and be neutral.
Reply
Imagine a 'nuclear' Ukraine going to war with a 'nuclear' Russian Federation. There are
possible portends of this given recent statements by both the head of the Ukraine and Ukraine's
Envoy to Russia. Looks like the Ukraine government are using the 'nuclear Ukraine' card to push
their way into NATO.
Zelensky: It's time for proposals for Ukraine to obtain NATO MAP, EU plan
After living much of my professional life in Ukraine, my solution for Ukraine is simple.
Decorate every last tree, telephone pole and lamppost from Lvov to Donetsk with Ukrainian
nationalists, aka unreconstructed Nazis. We can use alternative methods if we run out of poles
or rope.
Full disclosure: I speak Russian and Ukrainian, although I have not a drop of Slavic blood
in me. I am not related to a Russian or Ukrainian person by blood or marriage, so I have no
ethnic dog in this fight.
Reply
-The Greens, if they "win" will not win with a majority. That means they will need
coalition partners. Neither the CDU or the SPD is going to go along with their plan to stop
NS2. The Greens, in order to form a govt. will cave in on NS2 and probably other things.
-The Ukies are still fleeing the country to avoid going to the front. The Ukie brass says
as much. These are not soldiers. They are farm kids. At the 1st sign of serious war, they
will all head for the russians with hands in the air.
-V. Putin handled the western MSM narrative quite well, imo, when he said "Those behind
provocations that threaten the core interests of our security will regret what they have done
in a way they have not regretted anything for a long time." It can't be clearer than that.
And that tells me that the ussa is in the crosshairs. This may be the 1st time in history
that the oceans will offer no protection for the warmongers that have been at war for 222
years of 237 years of their existence
The comedian is still flaying about and now trying to play the SWIFT card (last week it
was nuclear weapons, before that it was...). Which, of course, the west will not honor
because it would cripple the west as much or more than RU. I would imagine he needs to change
his undershorts on an hourly basis these days. He is literally caught between a rock and a
hard spot. No more support from DE, FR, US, NATO, TR except good wishes. And demands from his
brain-dead Banderites are only growing more shrill. What's a poor comic to do?
The west is basically done with him and with the show of force by the russians they are
more done with him than before. For his sake, i hope his khazarian passport app has been
approved.
Another failed state compliments of the khazarians in DC. And the beat goes on.
Eighthman @10 North Stream 2 will be the last mayor cooperation between Russia and Europe
for the next 10, 20 years. If you had to choose where to put your money, would you put it in
a gas pipeline to China (Power of Siberia) or a gas pipeline to Europe (North Stream2)?
Putin will be the last Russian president who looked west, to Europe; the next president
will look east, to Asia. It's where the money is.
I know how the German system works. Yet I am not seeing the Greens win or compose the next
government if they threaten to cancel NS2. The NS2 is not about the CDU/CSU but about the
German elite interest. No way they are going to give green light to the Greens. Speaking of
someone which city is on the border.
There is ONE little thing Mike Whitney missed, or maybe it developed as/after he wrote
this, the State Department told Germany last week there would be no further sanctions on
Germany or her companies as regards Nordstream II. I believe also that a four-Euro-country
coalition told the U.S. a couple of weeks ago that this was for Germany's energy security,
Nordstream that is and they sounded like they're serious about any further American
interference in the matter.
On the subject of LNG, is it even possible to transport enough LNG from the United States
to Germany in quantity equal to the flow of Nordstream II? That pipe they're laying looks of
sufficient diameter to walk through standing up, it's going to pass a LOT of gas. I don't
know what the flow rates and pressures are, but I know one thing; Boston has a large LNG
terminal and it's a dangerous setup. Pipelines seem to me a safer enterprise.
-The Ziocorporate globalist NATO/EU terrorists: We supported Chechen terrorist separatists
and KLA organ-harvesting Jihadis, dismembered Yugoslavia and bombed Serbia, used your Russian
airspace that you opened for us to invade Afghanistan after the 9/11 Zioterrorist
self-attacks, instigated Georgia into war with Russia, used your UNSC vote to destroy Libya
with ISIS, turned EUkraine into a NATO satellite complete with an bloody massacre in Odessa
and yet another massmurderous war on Russia's border and blamed and sanctioned you for it,
shot down your planes in Syria; and we're gonna be taking Belarus the moment Lukashenko
blinks. But we're really good business partners, and need some gas, you know...
To my American readers I'd say that the US is very strong and the people of the US can
have a wonderful life even without world hegemony, in fact, hegemony is not in their
interests at all. What they should seek is a strong nationalist policy that cares for
the American people and avoids wasteful foreign wars.
The problem here, is that the American people are crushed and powerless, and in the grip
of something morphing into a Neo-Bolshevik style dictatorship. Similarly to the mid 1930's
this dictatorship wants world power – and from this perspective Ukraine looks more like
Spain 1936 (the first act of a much bigger show).
Biden's recent phone call to Putin suggests that the administration has decided not to
launch a war after all. The unconfirmed report of two US ships turning away from the Black
Sea fits this assessment. However, we cannot be sure about this since the Kremlin refused
to agree to Biden's offer for a meeting. The Kremlin's response was a frosty "We shall
study the proposal". Russians feel that the summit proposal might be a trick aimed at
buying time to strengthen their position.
Except that the US ordered two British warships to go there instead.
TASS, April 18. Two British warships will sail for the Black Sea in May. According to
The Sunday Times, a source in the Royal Navy indicated that this gesture is intended to
show solidarity with Ukraine and NATO in the region against the background of the situation
at the Russian-Ukrainian border.
According to the newspaper, one Type 45 destroyer armed with anti-aircraft missiles and
an anti-submarine Type 23 frigate will peel off from the Royal Navy's carrier task group in
the Mediterranean and sail through the Bosphorus into the Black Sea.
It is reported that the decision was made in order to support Ukraine after the US
cancelled its plans of sending two destroyers to the Black Sea in order to avoid further
escalation in the region and tensions with Russia. It is noted that in case of a threat on
the part of Russia, the UK is ready to send other military equipment to the region.
I would guess that the US Trotskyites plan to push the Ukrainians into a war and then
launch a massive international media barrage, "heroic Ukrainian patriots", "Russian
atrocities", "killer Putin" etc. sufficient to finish with Nord Stream 2 and scare France and
Germany back into the US fold.
If this is right, then they're not expecting Russia to retake the whole of the Ukraine,
and they're not planning to start WW3.
However, Russia's lowest risk strategy would probably still be to only defend their
existing positions making it difficult to claim a "Russian invasion". They've probably
already lost Nord Stream (which is really a German loss – and the Germans know what the
ZioGlob are doing here). This buys time, and given that the US is already on a fast downward
slope, lets them keep sliding.
@Anonymous
point the finger and shriek about 'Russian aggression' in order to pressure the Germans into
cancelling Nordstream 2 and any other Russian supplied energy.
Of course if the Europeans weren't run by (((banker))) stooges and if they had any balls
between them they would force the US to call the whole thing off and pressure the Ukrainian
fascists to honour the Minsk 2 agreement. Sadly we are just going to have to prepare for the
worst and hope it doesn't go nuclear.
I see my own government (I am from the UK) has decided to send some sacrificial ships to
the Black sea (the US apparently doesn't want to risk theirs) What else can we expect when
2/3 of our parliament are in 'Friends of Israel' groups?
The Ukrainians who would the hardest to pacify are in the Ukie Diaspora in US, Canada and
Western Europe. These folks still maintain a WW II mentality, act as if the Holodomor (which
was terrible) only happened the other day and have a fair number of Banderists among their
number. They do not wish to acknowledge that the Holodomor was orchestrated by the same Jews
who launched the Bolshevik Revolution and killed millions of Orthodox Russians more than a
decade beforehand. The ideal would be for Ukraine to maintain it territorial integrity minus
perhaps the Donbas and go forward with a positive relationship with Russia.
@Anonymous
refugees, including tens of thousands of Russian passport holders, trek into Russia, creating
a nightmare for Putin. Ukranazistan is enormously emboldened, joins NATO de facto if not yet
de jure, Russia is tremendously weakened, loses all allies and prospective allies. Win for
Amerikastan.
Scenario 2: Putin intervenes.
Result: Amerikastan leaves the Ukranazis high and dry, but shrieks about Evil Russian
Invasion; NordStream II and all other economic connections with Europe are severed.
Amerikastan immensely reasserts its control over Europe, sells its LNG to Germany at much
inflated prices, and its useless weapons to everyone to "defend against Russia". Hands Russia
the unenviable burden of the ruin of Ukranazistan, which Amerikastan has looted for 7 years
till there is nothing left. Win for Amerikastan.
@Fiendly
Neighbourhood Terrorist ttlement of Disputes". Hopefully it will direct the attention of
the Security Council or the General Assembly to realize the Russian Federation and permanent
member of the UNSC, see no other path to peace if the representatives of the UN fail to make
a just and fair decision on this particular matter that has gone on for far too long.
This in itself does not necessarily mean the armies of Russia will pour over Ukraine's
western border and over their northern border from Belarus. But the declaration of defensive
war puts US-NATO in a Hobson's choice predicament and that is to choose peace. If they choose
to cross the Rubicon then the necessity of defense war as theoretically stated will happen to
preserve the sovereignty of Mother Russia.
Less than 11% of ukrainians are Catholic -- less than 1% "Latin Rite" and 10% Uniate
Catholic -- and they are concentrated overwhelmingly in the oblasty bordering Poland and
Slovakia etc. in the west. Catholicism does not exist in the Donbass region and has almost
zero presence or influence in the rest of the Ukraine excluding the far west.
Russian and Ukrainian are even more similar than you make out, albeit not nearly-identical
like Russian and Belarussian.
In any event, many Ukrainians consider BOTH Russian and ukrainian to be their native
languages.
Moreover, a large minority of people, especially around Kiev, use the Russian-Ukrainian
mix called Surzhyk.
If the MIC/Banksters like the brinkmanship games so much, it would be interesting to see
Russian nuclear submarines emerging near Patagonia (Jewish "retreat") and Cuba. A piece of
leaked information about the City of London being on a crosshair of Kinzhal will be a bonus.
Add to that the publication of a detailed map of underground luxury bunkers for the
"deciders;" that would be super nice.
The cannibals – the "globally-oriented elites" – need to feel the flaming spear
directed towards each of them (and their progeny) personally. The confrontation has indeed
become personal: the ZUSA's "elites" against humankind.
@Miro23
re it fit best how would that be a bad thing?
Some to Russia, some to Poland, some to a rump State.
I would love to see Putin, Lavrov and Shoigu cook up a feast for Bidet Joe and Camel Toe tbat
would see them humiliated. Bidet is a fraud and anything that makes him and his little goblin
Blinkenfeld look like idiots is great.
We can only hope!
P.S. It must really suck to be a Ukrainian. Here we are in the 21st century and these guys
can't get out from being stuck in the mud. The young have to leave for Poland to get jobs.
And for what reason, so American Jews can get their Hate On for the Czar?! All the
Greenblatts need war crime charges. Convict and execute the next morning. All legal. Force is
all these vermin understand.
@Anonymous
oke Putin into overreacting, thus, proving that Russia poses a threat to all of Europe. The
only way Washington can persuade its EU allies that they should not engage in critical
business transactions (like Nordstream) with Moscow, is if they can prove that Russia is an
"external threat" to their collective security.
Shamir unfortunately became fixated on Whitney's use of the word "overreact" (though I agree
it's not the right word) and mostly failed to address the substance of the question and its
underlying premise.
And, as a postscript, I agree with animalogic. Your kindergarten language is embarrassing. I
mean, if you're going to insult Escobar et al., at least use adult insults.
In the unlikely event that Ukraine does try to take back the Donbas by force, Shakespeare
has already devised the appropriate stage direction for the Zelensky government:
"Get your hands off my country," Zimerman told the stunned crowd in a denunciation of US
plans to install a missile defence shield on Polish soil. Some people cheered, others yelled
at him to shut up and keep playing. A few dozen walked out, some of them shouting
obscenities.
I've played hundreds of Russians at chess, and they prefer what chess players call "quiet
moves." (Unlike US players, who are more impetuous). Same for Putin; quiet moves. But if
provoked, he will finish the job. (Adm Spruance, after Pearl Harbor: By not attacking the tank
farms, sub base, and machine shops, they had not "finished the job.
The "western" Ukraine you cite may have been culturally Ukrainian/Russian/eastern Slavic,
several hundred years ago. But as they were under Polish and later Austro-Hungarian
overlordship for many generations, they became westernized–culturally deracinated. They
are Galicians, NOT Ukrainians.
If Ukraine retains some level of political independence, they need to divorce these
culturally undigestible Uniates and their fascistic leadership. Currently that group poses a
toxicity to the body-politick of Ukraine, however else you may wish to define Kievan Rus.
@Bombercommand
> In some ways your take is apropos, particularly regarding potential Russian overextending.
You do place a lot of reliance on "International Law". With little incidents like Trump's
overturning of the uranium-processing accords with Iran, plus numerous other violations by the
U$/British consortium working as the intel and military enforcement arms for the Bank$ter
Cabal; international law has been constantly and consistently violated.
Geopolitically speaking, in terms of realistic "real politick", as per Bismark, no national
regime regards such nice-sounding accords as valid and inviolable. At some unknown future time,
genuine International Law may become a reality. At present, it is primarily a smiley-faced
mask.
A bear has never been a "Russian totem animal". Eagles, falcons, wolves – but never
bears. "Russian bear" is a product of the British russophobic propaganda of the Crimean war of
the 19 century.
The ukies are not Russians. Russian society looks forward demolition of the ukronazi
statehood, but without any form of integration of the Northern Somalia into our country. A few
million insurgent anarchists on top of all our problems would finish us.
The fanatics who actually live in Ukraine can be easily traced and kept under control. Their
funding would be cut off. They are a tiny portion of the population.
In the last elections that were won by Zelensky, the parties that wanted peace with Russia
represented over 95% of the population. Zelensky deceived everyone by continuing exactly the
same policies of Poroshenko. In fact, he was worse as he recently shut down all opposition TV
stations.
1n 2019, the only area in favour of continuing the war was brick-red on this map. Today, due
to the collapsing economy and the lockdowns, there are even fewer people in favour of war. The
Russians would be welcomed almost everywhere.
Fraud Bidet and little goblin Blinkenfeld; amusing but true nevertheless.
And I couldn't agree more when it comes to what you say about Ukraine, i.e. the borderland.
According to my sister who lives in Poland, Ukraincy (in Polish "those from bordeland) are
everyplace.
I would add that the western part of Ukarine "released" to join Poland would just allow the
evil empire to occupy that much land even closer to Russia. I don't see that as desirable.
Perhaps that western
extremity is something that needs to be made "independent" and demilitarized, perhaps with UN
peacekeepers present. At any rate, it needs to be rendered as no danger to Russia.
I have thought that by making Ukraine unavailable to the native neo-nazies there, they are
forced to relocate, and then become a major headache for their damaging and dangerous influence
in Europe.
Call it "blowback" . just another reason for the Europeans to defuse any American smart ideas
in their neighbourhood.
Canadian, British and hand-picked nazi battalions attempt to enter the no mans land, come
under mortar fire, go to ground and ask their artillery to save them.
Ukrainian/nato artillery battalions get counter-batteried into oblivion by ru artillery
regiments stationed in range.
Commanders at battalion level ask for a cease-fire, evacuate their troops back to the starting
line.
V.V. Putin, being merciful and kind, agrees.
Russia wins.
Fifth variant
Nothing happens except for a lot of hot air, troop movements and wails from Lugenpresse.
Status quo is maintained, zato keeps paying for the Ukrainian Project.
Russia wins.
They are already being treated as an outlaw state, and although Russians are inhumanly
patient, as I've seen for too long firsthand, this may figure into any looming brinkmanship
– as Lavrov's recent exasperated remark about the US being incapable of negotiation may
indicate.
True, There is zero need for the US to play Imperial Global Overlord because of the
natural resources on North America. It is only the greed and hubris of the Elites, who cannot
ever be satisfied.
The Anglo-Zionist Empire is very much an Evil Empire.
The Ukraine Crisis Recedes - But A False Narrative Of It Leads To Bad Conclusions
Some two month ago we discussed how the
U.S. focus on narratives will let it collide with reality . It is certainly not only the
U.S. government that creates narratives, comes to believe in them, and then fails when it is
confronted with reality. Carried by think tanks and media the narrative mold has grown
throughout the wider 'western' world.
On the danger of this development the above piece quoted Alastair Crooke who wrote
:
[B]eing so invested, so immersed, in one particular 'reality', others' 'truths' then will
not – cannot – be heard. They do not stand out proud above the endless flat plain
of consensual discourse. They cannot penetrate the hardened shell of a prevailing narrative
bubble, or claim the attention of élites so invested in managing their
own version of reality .
The 'Big Weakness'? The élites come to believe their own narratives –
forgetting that the narrative was conceived as an illusion, one among others, created to
capture the imagination within their society (not others').
They lose the ability to stand apart, and see themselves – as others see them. They
become so enraptured by the virtue of their version of the world, that they lose all ability
to empathise or accept others' truths. They cannot hear the signals. The point here, is that
in that talking past (and not listening) to other states, the latters' motives and intentions
will be mis-construed – sometimes tragically so.
Over the last weeks we passed through a crisis that easily could have had a tragic
ending.
Since February the Ukraine built up a force to retake the renegade Donbas region in
east-Ukraine by military force. After waiting several week to see the situation more clearly
Russia started to assemble a counterforce backed up by statements that were sufficiently strong
to deter the Ukraine from continuing its plans. The danger of a Ukrainian assault has now
receded.
Today the Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu gave orders for the troops to return to their bases.
Much of the equipment though will stay on training grounds near Ukraine until the regular fall
maneuvers later this year take place. That minimizes transport costs and gives a little time
advantage should someone in the Ukraine again have silly ideas.
Russia has clearly won this round.
But that is not how it looks when seen from the 'western' narrative. In that version the
Ukrainian plans and its assembling of heavy weapons and troops near the Donbas border never
happened. The narrative says that the whole incident started as a 'Russian aggression' when
Russia very publicly showed its potential force.
Only a few
analysts on the 'western' side have rejected that narrative and stuck to reality. Dmitri
Trenin of Carnegie's Moscow Center is one who got it right :
In February, Zelensky ordered troops (as part of the rotation process) and heavy weapons (as
a show of force) to go near to the conflict zone in Donbas. He did not venture out as far as
Poroshenko, who dispatched small Ukrainian naval vessels through the Russian-controlled
waters near the Kerch Strait in late 2018, but it was enough to get him noticed in Moscow.
The fact of the matter is that even if Ukraine cannot seriously hope to win the war in
Donbas, it can successfully provoke Russia into action. This, in turn, would produce a
knee-jerk reaction from Ukraine's Western supporters and further aggravate Moscow's
relations, particularly with Europe. One way or another, the fate of Nord Stream II will
directly affect Ukraine's interests. Being seen as a victim of Russian aggression and
presenting itself as a frontline state checking Russia's further advance toward Europe is a
major asset of Kyiv's foreign policy.
Russia intentionally over reacted to Kiev's opening move. It demonstrated its overkill
capability and made it clear to Zelensky's western sponsors that any further provocations would
have extremely harsh consequences.
Those behind provocations that threaten the core interests of our security will regret what
they have done in a way they have not regretted anything for a long time.
Zelensky's plan did not work out. While he did get verbal statements of support from Biden
and NATO everyone knew that those were empty promises.
But for people who have fallen for the false narrative the situation looks different.
Consider this reaction to Shoigu's return-to-barracks order today from a member of the
European Council On Foreign Relations (a U.S. lobby shop in Europe):
I have to congratulate (Flag of United States) @JoeBiden to deterence success and crisis
management. The right warnings were sent to Moscow, the right intelligence to Ukraine. (Flag
of Russia) could not extort concessions, could not provoke. Let's see w. these forces aren't
just redeployed to (Flag of Belarus).
Indeed Biden's order last week to
pull back two war ships that were supposed to go into the Black Sea to support Ukraine was
really great deterrence. But that was not a warning to Moscow. It did not deter Russia from
doing anything. But it did end Zelensky's illusions of U.S. support.
But for Gressel, who like others is stuck to the 'western' narrative, the sense is
different. He really seems to believe that the U.S. deterred Russia from some nefarious plans
which it never had. He ignores that Russia reacted to a Ukrainian provocation in a way that, in
the end, has made NATO and the U.S. look weak.
The danger is that Gressel, and other 'political scientists' like him, may once take up
government positions and use their learned illusions to handle the next crisis. Stuck in the
idea that Russia will retreat if only 'deterred' enough they will lean to measures that are
outright hostile to Russia and may have indeed very tragic consequences. To repeat Crooke's
warning
:
The point here, is that in that talking past (and not listening) to other states, the
latters' motives and intentions will be mis-construed – sometimes tragically so.
Posted by b on April 22, 2021 at 17:25 UTC |
Permalink
The Russians have only partly gone. Heavy weapons will remain in place which can be
reactivated easily. (Particularly in Crimea). However the Russian "Threat" to Zelnsky is
still there. Logically he should now have more difficulty in stirring up the EU and US for
cash and weapons as the "obvious and visble" threat is diminished. I don't think his troops
can stay indefinitely where they are. How can he continue to pay for all his new mercenaries,
new arms?
So how is the MSM going to react? They have a lot of "journalists" around there, waiting
for something to happen.
One obvious factor is that the supply lines of both are within their own countries
(Ukraine for Ukrainians, and Russia for the Russians). Those that have the longest supply
lines are NATO, the UK and US.
An earlier ploy (Attempted violent assasination of Lukashenko and most of the Belarussian
parliament), with Georgia and other close by countries getting involved too, is now unlikely.
BUT the US is desperate to cut the Russian-Chinese access to Europe by any means. What's
next? Plan ....F?
The Western narrative was also very clearly visible in the latest printed "Der Spiegel"
16/2021 (News magazine in Germany). They had a 4 page article about Ukraine with the title
"On the edge of war". They reported at length about russian troops near the border.
Explicitely they wrote about sabre rattling from russia and generally gave the impression
that all action is solely on the russian side and must be seen negatively or with grave
concerns.
But they failed completely to mention Ukrainian troop movements, bellicose rhetoric or even
the Zelensky's decrete 117/2021 from march 23rd with the translated title "Strategy of
de-occupation and reintegration of the temporarily occupied territory of the Autonomous
Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol".
b... thanks.. yes - narrative and controlling the narrative is what so much of this is
about.... people in the west are not told of ukraines role in any of this or how they are
encouraged by the west... instead what they are told is how russia is building up along the
ukraine border.... in other words only one side of the story is told, and not both..nor is
the timing of all of it shared either... people are literally given a script or narrative
tailor made for brainwashing.. and indeed it works on most...
for an example of this today - i was listening to cbc radio - national news show ''the
currenct''.. the host matt galloway discusses the situation with Mark MacKinnon, senior
international correspondent for the Globe and Mail; Nina Khrushcheva, professor of
international affairs at the New School in New York; and Michael Bociurkiw, global affairs
analyst, formerly with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.
I am not so sure that this is over. The Belarus coup was intended to be around May 9.
Zelensky has called up the reserves who ever they might be. He just floated the idea of
banning Russia from the SWIFT so that it is on everyone's mind when Ukraine claims they were
attacked. The NS2 will likely be initially complete in May. The USS Cook and Roosevelt are
waiting for the British boats and will likely enter together. They have not yet given notice
that I have seen. Two frigates are transiting the Suez to join their fellow yanks. I see a
perfect storm yet coming. Shoigu is bright and knows that it looks good to announce the
return to barracks, but he has access to my data plus a ton more. He knows that the situation
is still fluid and volatile.
... But for Gressel, who like others is stuck to the 'western' narrative, the sense is
different. He really seems to believe that the U.S. deterred Russia from some nefarious plans
which it never had. He ignores that Russia reacted to a Ukrainian provocation in a way that,
in the end, has made NATO and the U.S. look weak.
This delusion reminded me of a retort, from an astute observer, to a dopey remark made by
Bush II soon after the start if the Iraq Fake War. Bush said "We're gonna turn EyeRack into
fly-paper for ter'rists! To which the observer responded...
"If Iraq was fly-paper then the only bug that got stuck to it was Bush."
I'm one of the most ardent proponents of the "imbecilization of the West" hypothesis, but
this is clearly a diplomatic style face-saving plausible deniability exit by the West.
The West knows time is not on its side in the Ukrainian issue, and its puppet president
threw a Hail Mary. Russia correctly didn't swallow the bait, and the West fell back as it
knew it would have to, since this was a long shot.
NS-2 is now getting finished, and the Ukraine will consolidate itself more than ever as a
black hole of American resources. The West, however, has one last ace in the hole: the German
Green Party, which is well positioned to form the next government after the December national
elections. The NS-2 certainly won't be finished by then, if the American diplomacy is to do
its job properly, and the Greens will have all the tools at hand to implode the project, thus
giving the Ukraine some more years to ride on American finance by its gas leverage (over
which all its sovereign T-bonds rest at this point).
The key to Ukrainian success is in Germany, not in Russia.
Thank you b.
More and more interesting links for a great nightshift!
Every body must read in UNZ an interview of Israel Shamir (posted it in the afternoon)
Who cares their narrative? Dummkopft
On the decision level a lot of people know the facts.
And Putin and al. ability to build fact is impressive. A lot more than "1962 Cuba missile
crisis".
And Russia got good countermeasures with RT, VK...
One advantage that Ukraine has in military terms is the number of people who willingly and
enthusiastically want to join the army for the sake of de-occupation (interesting why they
invented a replacement of "liberation" that has at least two equivalents with Slavic roots,
perhaps they do not like their current occupations). The best proof is that through their
democratically elected representatives they voted for a huge increase of punishments for
avoiding conscription.
The other proof is that, temporarily at least, Ukrainians abolished the system of rotation
in which units were staying on the fortified lines literally dying of boredom and related
risk (alcohol poisoning, explosions of stills making moonshine, drug overdoses, suicide,
stepping over their own mines, to mention a few), instead the troops to be rotated stayed in
place and the other units joined them nearby.
However, Russian conscripts without the advantage of Ukrainian enthusiasm have better
weapons. Modernizing Ukrainian military is a tall order. The budget barely supports the
troops without modernization, the domestic industry in its better years relied to selling
parts to Russia and buying other parts, remnants of industrial integration of Soviet times.
Supplying them with NATO weapons would require huge gifts that (a) could be unpopular in the
West (b) raise risk of getting the best toys of NATO to Russian in exchange for non-toxic
alcohol, fresh Afghan heroin etc. Did I mention mind-killing military service? And with not
so best toys, like missile boats that are about to be de-commissioned, say, in Canada, they
do not really change the strategic balance.
Thus Zelensky had to be saved from his own rhetoric and gestures -- the aforementioned
change in "rotation". Kiev authorities have a good practice in "never mind". For example,
they utilize fascist radicals to intimidate opposition, but they are what I call "pet
cobras", biting the hand that feeds them is what is programmed into their reptilian minds
that do not have circuits for "friends" and "gratitude". And because of some grievances they
trashed the Presidential place of work, insulting graffiti, broken windows, a broken and
burned door, so three ringleaders got arrested, Parliament spent a few hours being appalled
(after thinking for a week what to say), and now one ringleader was let free, with the
remainder probably joining him soon (one at the time, I think). See folks: nothing
happened.
It is possible that Napoleonic rhetoric and gestures were planned to get a "street cred"
with those hoodlums, or that they were discreetly encouraged by an embassy (some people think
that UK is the leader here, USA having mental problems and distractions). Or some
combination.
Imagine a drunken red nosed music hall comedian having to be taken so seriously. It really
grates that the West has been reduced to this; a Spam headed sham, so pilled up he rattles,
as a President of the FSOA. This obvious, self professed clown, Zelensky as head of an SS
Totenkopf militia. A tiny appendage of Russia called Europe being a colony of a country based
on genocide and slavery, that is reputedly anti-colonial. and a parcel of rogues spanning
three continents and two oceans that gobble up lies like dung beetles on excrement lean back
on their laurels, ill gotten gains, genocide and lies, and feel themselves morally superior
to the victims, actual and future.
Our problem here in the U$A is still the same as always. Mr. Z's announcement on 3/24 about
his nation's intentions to take back the Crimea, were NEVER mentioned on our MSM. It's always
Russian aggression, or China's aggression. It's NEVER our fault.
listen from 22:48" for a good example of script writing and narrative control here... CBC The
Current for April 22, 2021
Posted by: james | Apr 22 2021 18:19 utc | 4
Do you care to take responsibility for our mental health? I did provide a summary of a
"narrative control" article once, I can do it once in few months, should we also have some
rotation here?
@ 14 piotr.... for your mental health i recommend unplugging from all western news outlets
especially with regard to topics like russia, china, venezuala, syria, ukraine and etc.
etc... free! no charge for you piotr! and okay - you're on next shift!
Just a couple of notes:
-The Greens, if they "win" will not win with a majority. That means they will need coalition
partners. Neither the CDU or the SPD is going to go along with their plan to stop NS2. The
Greens, in order to form a govt. will cave in on NS2 and probably other things.
-The Ukies are still fleeing the country to avoid going to the front. The Ukie brass says
as much. These are not soldiers. They are farm kids. At the 1st sign of serious war, they
will all head for the russians with hands in the air.
-V. Putin handled the western MSM narrative quite well, imo, when he said "Those behind
provocations that threaten the core interests of our security will regret what they have done
in a way they have not regretted anything for a long time." It can't be clearer than that.
And that tells me that the ussa is in the crosshairs. This may be the 1st time in history
that the oceans will offer no protection for the warmongers that have been at war for 222
years of 237 years of their existence
The comedian is still flaying about and now trying to play the SWIFT card (last week it
was nuclear weapons, before that it was...). Which, of course, the west will not honor
because it would cripple the west as much or more than RU. I would imagine he needs to change
his undershorts on an hourly basis these days. He is literally caught between a rock and a
hard spot. No more support from DE, FR, US, NATO, TR except good wishes. And demands from his
brain-dead Banderites are only growing more shrill. What's a poor comic to do?
The west is basically done with him and with the show of force by the russians they are
more done with him than before. For his sake, i hope his khazarian passport app has been
approved.
Another failed state compliments of the khazarians in DC.
And the beat goes on.
Being seen as a victim of Russian aggression and presenting itself as a frontline state
checking Russia's further advance toward Europe is a major asset of Kyiv's foreign
policy.
Wait...what?
I think B takes the "administration" too literally -
We know they are lying, they know they are lying, everyone knows they are lying but they are
creating a virtual world in which their behavior is rational and justified. I am not sure why
exactly such an artificial construct is seen as helpful. I suppose you could blame it on the
voting public in the democratic west but we all realize by this point that the west is in no
way democratic in a literal, functional sense - they less than do not give a damn what the
little people think in fact they could well do with a lot fewer of them and really without
the need of actual vote counting.
Possibly to their dog at night under the covers and after many martinis to help them
forget what they are, they admit something like their best attempt at the truth.
Eighthman @10 North Stream 2 will be the last mayor cooperation between Russia and Europe for
the next 10, 20 years. If you had to choose where to put your money, would you put it in a
gas pipeline to China (Power of Siberia) or a gas pipeline to Europe (North Stream2)?
Putin will be the last Russian president who looked west, to Europe; the next president
will look east, to Asia. It's where the money is.
The militias with their supposed morale -- These are the grandkids and great grandkids of
WWII collaborators. Middle class and hipsters. In a country where there basically is no
middle class. Ukraine's economy is at African level. Only source of funds for anything is the
US embassy. There is no agenda but the agenda of 1945. Any from the 2014 crop who had
anything on the ball whatsoever is now my neighbor. What is left in Uke is the dregs.
Hipsters do not hang around in failed states.
Entire political landscape is now centered on US Embassy. Oligarchs might have some input
still, their wealth is out of country and so are they most of time.
Pure political vacuum. Nature abhors a vacuum. CIA and their hired actors will fill the
stage, journalists will report their antics. They are playing to an empty house. Ukraine
could exist in same zone as Libya or Iraq for a long time. In end nothing fills the vacuum
but Russian Federation.
The Russian military's policy is not to use conscripts on the front lines, that role is
far too important to trust to what are partially trained soldiers, they are used in support
functions. The frontline is manned by professional soldiers.
Zelenski has got $300M of 'stuff' out of Congress this week so that was a result for
him.
Russia might be pulling back but the Ukrainians haven't got the message. My understanding
is there are 50,000 Ukrainian army and 20,000 Ukrainian security forces normally in the
Donbass on the frontlines against 30,000 or so NAF. This crisis came when another 30,000
troops plus heavy weapons were moved into the area. Two days ago OSCE reported that two
artillery battalions of self propelled 122mm and 152 guns have been moved up to the front.
Then apparently earlier this week, two battalions of the Azov were moved up from Mariupol
(their normal area) to the front lines facing Donetsk City. Most of these 20,000 security
forces would be your Nazi wannabe's with the Azov unit being the largest. For those of you
not watching in 2014/5 Azov are the evil bastards that make the Red Army in WW2 Germany look
like angels.
So Kiev is still building an overpowering strike force with a probable objective of a
thrust through the center to the Russian border, splitting the two 'rebel' states. Both US
and UK and no doubt other advisors are on site. The Global Hawk is sucking up data overhead
most days. There is NATO pride on the line here planning and directing. We await a false
flag.
I think b is being a bit too optimistic. Somehow they have to stop NS2, in many ways their
futures depend on transit gas and, as before, they won't care how many have to die to save
their skins and wallets.
@ vk | Apr 22 2021 19:14 utc | 7
I agree Once again Deutschland :
أم كل المعارك
"The Mother of all Battles"
Germany, the biggest Tabaqui, surrounded by many petty tabaquies...
But
Germany, playing the two side...
Germany, so stark and so weak...
Germany, "So jung und doch so alt"
How long can Germany resist the narrative?
How long before the end of the show?
Scroll up on that to the original Aslund post. He is talking about his friends getting
ready to flee to Western Ukraine (or further). Sounds likely enough. Maybe they know
something. And if it is just a routine panic in a failed state amongst a nervous elite, it
only repeats so many times before they all do get out of town.
LOL The greens will not win in Germany. Wait to September and tons of pedophilia scandals to
appear on the media about Robert Habeck, and they will be toast
There's no question that if and when push comes to shove, and the first hints of defeat waft
from the frontlines despite all attempts to spin it otherwise, the Ukrainian people will drop
any sense of unity, fold like a wet napkin, and demand peace. Only a small sector of the
population is highly motivated to fight or turn out the vote for bellicose policy against
Russia.
Do the Greens have vote in Bavaria, Nordrhein-Westfalen and Eastern Germany? I don't think
so. Greens are popular Baden-Württemberg due Kretschmann charisma. If they haven't vote
in Bavaria, Nordrhein-Westfalen and Eastern Germany , so they aren't going to win..
I'm seeing a lot of anglo and america media trying to boost these guys. But I have a bad
feeling that the child book writer Robert Habeck will get a 'Sebastian Edathy'
treatament.
1) Germany has a proportional representative system. You don't have to win it all to
compose the government. The Greens are going to compose the next government; Germany, as a
First World country, is socially stable enough so that we can already consider this a fait
accompli .
2) Laschet's choice as Merkel's successor
apparently backfired . The CSU-CDU will probably lose some 10% more on top of what
they're already projected to lose in these next general elections, mostly to the Greens.
I know how the German system works. Yet I am not seeing the Greens win or compose the next
government if they threaten to cancel NS2. The NS2 is not about the CDU/CSU but about the
German elite interest. No way they are going to give green light to the Greens. Speaking of
someone which city is on the border.
"One advantage that Ukraine has in military terms is the number of people who willingly
and enthusiastically want to join the army for the sake of de-occupation "
Not nearly as motivated as Russians who have dealt with Nazi Fascists once before. What
happened last time is seared into their heads.
Russia has closed the Kerch Strait.
It is reported that the two US destroyers which were to have transited the Bosphorus are
awaiting a pair of Britsh destroyers intended to join them with the flotilla of 4 ships to
enter the Black Sea.
What happens if the UK and US decide on a FONOP which involves a transit of the Kerch Strait
to make a port visit to Ukraine on the Sea of Azov?
Does Putin keep the Kerch closed?
If he stops the flotilla does this become "interference with international right of
navigation?"
Does this asserted interference then result in Ukraine attack? Or a combined NATO / Ukraine
action?
President Putin consulted with Minster of Defense Shoigu and asks if the troops can be scaled
back from the lines of contact without significantly reducing tactical capability. Shoigu
runs the numbers and delivers the answer that Putin was looking for.
Putin is offering an olive branch to Zelensky knowing full well his military can roll over
the eastern and southern borders of Ukraine with impunity.
Does Zelensky do the same? No, instead he calls up reserve boys to make himself look
tough.
A Russian proverb that is most appropriate in this case is this:
Дурна́я
голова́ нога́м
поко́я не даёт.
Translation: The stupid head doesn't leave feet in rest or in other words, no rest for the
wicked.
Sushi @32
How does Putin close the Kerch strait?
The same way as last time, park a largish ship or two in it.
FONOPS don't work so well as battering rams, and the straight is very narrow.
If all of this sound and fury is just to cancel North Stream 2, then it strikes me as a
demonstration of terrible impotence, using a lot of leverage to achieve a fairly small end.
Maybe it is exactly this. But I prefer Rostislav Ischenko's
outline of several actions in several neighboring theaters as a concerted attack on
Russia - with the objective of levering EU away from Russia. And the note here is that this
is not over yet, the game is still afoot.
This larger ploy seems like a far more desirable objective for the US, given the
expenditure of resources, rather than simply the NS2. But it still reeks of impotence, given
how decisively Russia has countered each move (of the ones that are visible - no telling
about the ones beneath the surface).
I have read somewhere, probably here, that if Germany were to cancel NS2 she would owe
Russian billions of dollars in penalties. This project is after all, a matter of contract.
And Germany must abide by its contracts if it is to remain in the business world. Or so it
seems to me. Is Germany going to flout contract obligations with Russia, which supplies it
with fuel for its industry and to stay warm in winter? It seems unlikely.
So, while the US acts to try to split Europe away from Russia, Germany is actually taking
the least divisive path if it finishes NS2. Because if it is forced to cancel, and then to
pay the billions in penalties, surely this causes a far greater split from the US and toward
Russia than otherwise? Simply a split that plays out over a longer time, but much more
finally.
If the US were capable of thinking all this through, it might understand how it pushes
away everything it attempts to grasp. But we have watched for years, with some gladness, to
see that this is exactly the fatal weakness of the US now. It simply doesn't understand
reality, and simply cannot learn from it. Which I guess is b's point. Agreed.
For whomever may be under any illusion whatsoever,
Please,
Do not decieve yourselves,
The truth and the fact of the matter is very readily apparent.
All one must do is look objectively upon the reality of the situation in an honest
manner.
Please do so.
Thank you.
The Sea of Azov is the shallowest sea in the world and has a maximum depth of 45 feet. An
Arleigh Burke destroyer has a draft of 30 feet. Even if somehow NATO ships entered the Sea of
Azov, there are not many places that they can go unless they are very small ships.
The situation around these unplanned military drills reminded me of 8 unplanned military
drills by Iran during the last few months of Mr. Trump's government.
A likely preemptive responses, in both cases, to planned acts of aggression, nullifying
them. Someone might have alerted them too.
b, thanks for this post and thanks for the link to the excellent Alister Crook SCF article. I
am sick of being told what to think and what opinions I should hold by the corporate and
public MSM.
Narrative control is even more pervasive these days and the disconnect with the actual
reality is more obvious.
How can the Anglo/Zionist captive nations talk about 'our values' while the grotesque
horror show and slow motion genocide continues in occupied Palestine?
How can the Anglo/Zionist captive nations politicians talk about 'free trade' and
'liberalised trade'
while enforcing illegal trade embargoes on sovereign nations?
We were told by President Nixon that trade with China was good. Now the BRI railroad is
portrayed as a 'threat' and 'controversial.' Ditto the Nord Stream gas pipeline from Russia
to Europe.
What is threatened is the cushioned pashas position to dictate hegemonic power throughout
the world.
Australia is among the worst offenders of this moronic groupthink as shown by
distinguished veteran correspondent Hamish McDonald:
During the Siege War against Iran, as well as during the hard times of the pandemic,
Germany established herself to be of no consequence in the political arena or in the
humanitarian one.
If Ukrainian government has indeed mobilized or otherwise has planned a war against
Russia, then her life expectancy in her current format or within her current borders will be
measured in years and not decades.
Russia will not tolerate an armed camp of enemy soldiers in Ukraine, she will be
neutralized as an independent actor shortly.
The 3 Westernmost oblasts might survive as a rump Ukraine but she is finished now.
Yes Fyi, it is shameful. What is not so well known is Australia and the US have a long
history of bullying New Zealand with loud megaphone diplomacy on cherished policy issues. One
example was when the Muldoon [NZ] government recognised the PLO as the legitimate
representative of the Palestinian people many decades ago. Muldoon told them to F off,
diplomatically, of course.
The NZ superannuation fund recently decided to divest from Israeli banks citing
'repetitional damage.' among other relevant things. Another win for BDS but ignored by the
MSM. How could they spin that together with the prevailing narrative? So they ignored it.
At least NZ has some self respect intact. In business it is a good idea to speak the
language of the buyer. I prefer NZ white wine and Australian red wine, particularly Barossa
Valley reds. Now Australia complains about coal fired power stations in China, forgetting it
is Australia selling the coal. NZ can sell the wine.
My guess is that the Russians will create the conditions whereby the US/UK flotilla will
be forced to get stuck in the shallow waters of the Azov Sea. Thus they will achieve their
objective without firing a shot. The Russians know the spots with shallow waters. US/UK not
so much.
I have known, during my life, one single individual from New Zealand. He was the only
English-speaker who could pronounce my name at first try. Very fine chap.
I do not know much about that country except that it is populated by serious Anglicans and
is currently being led by a real statesman, unlike so many other countries.
I wish that country well, they are trying to do the right thing where larger more powerful
countries, such as Germany, UK, or Italy, sold themselves for the proverbial 30 pieces of
silver.
Agreed, your proposition for an immediate fast rush to the Russian border to split the
region is just as likely as a stand down. I would never be trusting NATO or FUKUS.
I am actually an Australian living in New Zealand. Lucky me. The two countries used to
have a deal. Now that deal is observed by NZ but not observed by Australia. I tell some
Kiwis, sometimes young in cheek, 'I am an Australian refugee boat person, fleeing from an
oppressive government.'
As for the population, someone told me years ago ' it doesn't matter which party is in
power, the country is always governed by Scottish Presbyterians so it always has some money
put away'.
Most people can pick my Australian accent.
Race relations is far better in NZ than Australia. Australia is dysfunctional and utterly
corrupt at all three levels of government. My American friend says that is like America. He
moved to NZ. Both countries have rotten bureaucracy, perhaps a British hangover.
Posted by: Grieved | Apr 23 2021 1:48 utc | 37
(Germany will not walk away from NS 2)
Thanks for fleshing out the NS 2 'controversy' with additional "inconvenient truths". My
confidence that NS 2 will proceed as planned is based 90% on Sarah Kelly's 2020 DW Conflict
Zone interview with Niels Annen, Heiko Maas's 2IC. Annen pointed out to (deaf-in-one-ear,
can't-hear-with-the-other) Sarah that Germany's trade relationship with Russia is
"complicated" but works for both. By the end of the interview it looked as though he felt a
bit sorry for Sarah being stuck in the awkward position of being obliged to argue that black
is white.
I thought Zelensky was the Real Deal, a kind of Trump echo. But he ran into the same problem
as Trump - a painful collision with the reality that the President is just a figurehead with
very little Leadership autonomy, if any.
There's a new post-Trump 3-part BBC documentary series called Trump Takes On The World.
Last night, ABC.net.au broadcast the first 1-hour Episode. It begins with Theresa May's visit
to Trump's Washington. There's a formal meeting to discuss UK-US attitude to NATO. Before the
meeting gets into stride, someone in Team Trump mentions that Putin phoned the White House
and Team Trump is working out a schedule for the conversation to take place. Trump hits the
roof.
"What!!?? Are you telling me that Putin, the only man who can destroy the United States,
phoned the White House and you didn't tell me about it!!??"
Trump let's it slide, in deference to the presence of Ms May, but as the implications sink in
he can't leave it alone and delves deeper into this weird event, Ms May's presence
notwithstanding...
I think Zelensky ran into exactly the same problem - believing that the Prez is in charge
of something important but realising that's just theatrical window-dressing. 'Democratic'
window-dressing.
And with the Biden family having influence in Regime-changed Ukraine, it's probably safe to
assume that the same Swamp Creatures which keep POTUS in check also 'manage' Zelenski's
Presidential daydreams.
.. why ..artificial construct ... Passerby @ 18 < deep state reprograms what people
remember about events. planting
misinformation 30 year study
Reprogamming what you remember about an event is technology embedded deep in MSM propaganda.
Passerby goes on to say "we all realize ...the west is in no way democratic in a
literal,
functional sense - they .. do not give a damn what the little people think .. ..fewer of them
.." <=is desirable.
Not true, the west is ~2.6 billion people [+ .010 billion can understand what you posted],
but
<1,000,000 people are in the group you classify as the West. The governed masses are
victim to
Oligarch owned nation states. The nation states are 1) tools, Oligarch's use, to compete in
the
national and international markets (Article II), 2) each nation states includes a
political
system (basically a consumer complaint department) to control the behaviors of the
domestic
flocks and to keep the flocks distributed into their respective pastures.
Basically, the legislative and law making nation states are open air prisons that oversee
the
domestic masses, but in foreign affairs, the nation states are economic weapons used by
Oligarch
to engage in national and international profit making competition.
In other words,the only benefactors of the nation state system are the Oligarchs.
The 21st Century problem humans must resolve: "How to impose democratic principles,
human rights, and self-determination on the nation state system?"
It does not matter if we are talking East or West.
The nation state is the structure that confines the sheep so Oligarch can shear the wool.
A comment elsewhere alleged Lukashenko, of Belarus revealed how the world bank coerced
sovereign nations to engage Corona virus lock down and vaccine scenarios; the same comment
alleged Lukashenko fined the Soros foundation in Belarus 3.0 million for currency violations,
and that the foundation left Belarus?
I am not sure about those claims. Can anyone authenticate those facts or elaborate on them .
?
Biswapriya Purkayast: if the comment isn't the recent one you wrote in the "Kipling" Russia
thread it has probably been snagged by the link-checker and will appear later. It happens to
everyone once in a while, a good idea to write and save any comment in a text editor before
copying and posting it, unless it's short like this one :)
All this fuss around Crimea and Donbass was simply meant to distract attention from
Belarus. (Did the Americans inform Zelensky or did they just manipulate him?)
The destabilization, collapse, invasion of Belarus failed (When did the Russians
understand?), so the players disengage from this point of confrontation to find another one
(Where?).
A key aspect of propaganda is reversing the actual order of cause and effect to make the
enemy falsely look like the aggressor. We see this in the recent case of Ukraine. The western
pressitutes cynically ignored, and failed to report, the unprovoked Ukrainian military build
up on the border, to which the Russian build was a defensive reaction. So that now, as far as
the average western consumer of this propaganda is concerned, the Russian 'aggressor' 'bad
guys' have been forced to back down. All BS of course.
The anti-imperialist movement needs to establish popular online hubs that
aggregate/syndicate the writings of small blogs like this. It is beyond the abilities of any
single blogger to keep up with news events to counter imperialist lies in real time but
collectively they can do it if their work is made available at bigger hubs.
Searched for some info on that fine but that's an old story, the Soros Fund was fined and
expelled from Belarus in '97. But recently there was a debate about the influence in
education by the Soros foundations in the former soviet countries. Probably this has a lot to
do with the comments made by Putin in his address to the Federal Assembly, he remarked that
some history text books do not even mention the Stalingrad Battle while at the same time
enhancing the second front influence in WWII outcome. In other words, the foundations might
be out, there influence is not, money buys wills, and if anything else is missing in those
influence institutions money is not one of them.
UK was hoping to provoke an incident with its ships in Black Sea.
Russia has unilaterally withdrawn, leaving the British ships to cruise about at their
leisure. Pardon me, but might you have any Grey Poupon?
@43 Fyi
To my knowledge Germany has several times delivered medical equipment to Iran during the
ongoing pandemic. I`m not familiar with the details, though. Germany is also heavily involved
with COVAX which is one of the main sources of vaccines for Iran.
It bugs me how even well-informed critics of North Atlanticist regimes and their foreign
policies write and talk of them as "western demoracies". The "Founding Fathers" of the USA
feared nothing more than 'democracy' -- by which they thought of ancient Athens, or the
ancient republic of San Marino or some Swiss Cantons. What they wanted was a republic in the
mold of Ancient Rome, Venice, or like the Netherlands before Wilhelm of Orange, i.e. roled by
rich men's clubs and throuh inherited wealth, be that from land ownership, slave-holding or
from commercial gains and prate privatering -- plus of course exploiting colonies and
controlled marketing opium and its derivats (plus cocaine).
None of the present-day Atlanticist nations call themselves "demomracies" in their name or
constitutions. Only Greece does -- and only because they don't have the romance word
"republic" in their language.
In observation of these linguistic and political facts, the governments of Central Europe
east of Nato, China, Viet-Nâm and Chosôn ("North Korea") all called themselves
"people's republics" -- as opposed the the states further west that were ruled by the elected
representatives of Capital and Big Banking.
@7 vk
I don't know how you come to that conclusion:
he West, however, has one last ace in the hole: the German Green Party, which is well
positioned to form the next government after the December national elections. The NS-2
certainly won't be finished by then ..
In fact, the elections will take place Sep 26. The newly elected parliament will gather
fist time ("constituting") 3-4 weeks after that date, so end of October. After that,
coalition agreement has to be negotiated, usually taking 6 weeks or more (last time, it was
nearly 5 months). If the outcome is as the polls indicate at the moment, with the Greens as
the strongest faction, they will get the task to strike a coalition deal, negotioting
probably with CDU, and SPD plus FDP, for a couple of weeks. A new government, elected by the
Bundestag, is not to be expected before end of December.
Before anybody could act upon NS2, it will be 2022. If the project is not stopped at the
last kilometres, it will be finished by May, 2021. Once operational, the government does not
have much leverage to shut it down.
Yes, I can confirm reports of Australian racism against Indians, Iranians, Lebanese,
Chinese, and Greeks.
One person told me that she was reluctant to travel to the United States because she had
feared similar treatment there.
On the other hand, I know of a case of an abandoned Sikh mother & child (by her
husband) in New Zealand - the social services stepped right in and helped stabilize their
lives.
I think all of these evils start from the top.
The late General MacArthur tolerated racism and the African-Americans under his command
suffered.
Some other Flag Rank officers did not tolerate racism and that made a huge difference to
the experience of the African-American soldiers and sailors under their commands.
Addenda to Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 23 2021 8:11 utc | 53
(BBC doco Trump takes On The World)
Episode 1 spans events from Ms May's Trump White House visit, to Helsinki and Trump's
'betrayal' of AmeriKKKa in his private meeting with Putin.
During the closing moments of the doco (minute 55 - no ads on ABC) a bloke who looks like
Mitch McConnell (R) Kentucky/Tel Aviv, says "That'll be the lar-yest time we ever have a
President meet a foreign leader in private."
Russia has not been idle as the US and allies have been pumping plane loads of weaponry to
the ukropa army, this 'training deployment' was an opportunity for Russia to check, train and
equip the Donbass militia. I would assume that an operation room is already setup, with
spetnaz remaining in place to monitor the lines.
Nato is stumped at both the heavy response and language used by Russia, they are a paper
tiger, and many of their members, would have opted out. The 'Belarus attempted coup' is
another Red line for Russia, thus VVP stressed that Russia has the resources to put a stop to
it.
The Czech hyenas have started walking-back(US State department word) accusations about the
2014 explosions https://www.rt.com/russia/521514-czech-blast-not-state-terrorism/
@B could you look into the issue of the Damona explosion, I believe a poster somewhere
mention a retaliatory attack by Iran on missile factories in Jerusalem, I also doubt it was a
stray AA missile.
All the open source evidence does indeed point to it being an S-200/SA-5 missile.
The Israeli Defense Minister Beni Gantz has officially acknowledged that the attempt to
shoot down the S-200PMT missile failed. Saying that 4 US and 6 Israeli Patriot SAMs & 2
Israeli SAMs "David Sling" missed the S-200 at 17 km.
So, not just IAF but US operated systems as well by the look of it.
This is now a huge problem for the US. At least when the Yeminis hit Saudi the US can
mutter about the quality of the Saudi AD crews but here, in Israel they will be skilled and
well trained crews from both countries i.e. the 'best'. This is very embarrassing for the US
MIC. Their SAMs couldn't even down a Soviet era errant SAM.
No doubt today many countries will be re-evaluating their Patriot AD systems. Indeed,
should existing customers be demanding their money back as the system is clearly shown to be
faulty (it has to be a fault, it can't possibly be a design error)? Turkey and India must be
feeling pleased.
I meant to say that for a while now the Syrian rules of engagement have changed and they are
now able to 'chase the launcher aircraft' home. Before that they were only targeting the
incoming munitions. Putin confirmed the change.
The radars attached to the Syrian S-300s, plus freestanding units, give them a very good
view of where the IAF aircraft are. Even better if they are plugged into the Russians
IAD.
In a way this was a very good warning shot. It did no real damage so no excuse for Israel
to seek revenge yet it must be giving the IAF second thoughts about their current attack
strategy.
I think along with Pres Putin address credit is also due to Lavrov's statement that Ukraine
would cease to exist....a real dose of blunt sober reality.
Here come the englanders turn Zelensky into David the Goliath killer. He will be all fired up
by the British Embassy squad. Black Sea battle next week.
Speaking of dangerous narratives... this is what scares the hell out of me...
"the plan which had been first described publicly in America's two most prestigious
international relations journals, as being a suitable replacement for "M.A.D.": "Nuclear
Primacy". That's the goal for America to blitz-nuclear attack Russia so quickly that Russia
won't have enough time to launch a retaliatory response."
... that there are people who are so deluded they actually believe a nuclear war can be
"won."
Now that we've established who the aggressor is, let's take a look at Tsereteli's and
Carafano's next brilliant takeaway point. The dynamic duo of war strategies says cosmetic
measures against Russia will not do! The "west" (meaning NATO), they say, needs a more
clear strategy. Which certainly means a massive arms buildup west of the Siverskyi Donets
River. The Zelensky government is being pushed from Washington to take even more drastic
measures to force Russia into a war stance. The editorial board of the Washington Post
recently advised Zelensky:
"Mr. Zelensky now has the opportunity to forge a partnership with Mr. Biden that could
decisively advance Ukraine's attempt to break free from Russia and join the democratic
West. He should seize on it."
So, now that we've shown who is doing the pushing here, let's turn to the final takeaway
from Heritage Foundation master strategists. Tsereteli and Carafano come right out and say
"countries left outside of NATO will remain targets of Russian aggression and
manipulations." So, the purpose of all this supposed spread of militaristic-based democracy
is to expand NATO to? I mean, seriously. Washington is not reaching out with the Peace
Corps to shore up a budding Eastern European democracy. The United States is kidnapping
another former Soviet republic on the way to the big score. My country has military bases
in almost every country in the world, has had more wars than the Mongols, and spends more
on weapons than everybody else combined – but Russia is being aggressive!
"I'd like to know how Zelensky and the Kiev authorities are supposed to get out of
this situation without falling apart."
Well, if I were Zelensky I might imagine getting myself out of this mess by the
following steps:
1. Keep raising the ante. Scream about an imminent Russian invasion, keep your population
panicked (by concocting a list of "bomb shelters" in Kiev, for example). Keep actual violence
against the Donbass republics at just low enough a level to not be enough provocation for a
Russisn intervention, for now .
2. Keep acquiring missiles from NATO, and trainers in how to use them. Negotiate with
Sultan Erdoğan for headchopper mercenaries (especially Chechens and other Russian
speakers).
3. Arrange for NATO exercises in Ukranazistan this summer.
4. Under cover of those exercises, using the NATOstanis as human shields in fact, attack
the Donbass Republics, and only the Donbass Republics. Use the headchoppers as shock
troops to minimise own losses. Capture the Donetsk and Lugansk main urban areas, leave slices
right on the Russian border. Do not touch Crimea.
5. Present this as a huge victory, like Ilham Aliyev did in Nagorno Karabakh.
As I said, this would be my plan if I were Zelensky. Whether it would work depends on how
much "restraint " Putin is willing to give up on, and how much risk he's willing to take.
The present stand-off cannot last forever, so it is a question of time before something
falls apart.
Russia used the aggressive move by NATO/Ukraine to perform a judo-like move
The speed of execution of the manoeuvre also calls for admiration when NATO can't even
move an armoured division in Poland (inadequate road infrastructure)
But Evil is in the details. And as the greatest french dialogue writer: "Les conneries
c'est comme les impôts, on finit toujours par les payer."
[Bullshit is like taxes, you always end up paying them.]
"The British training program, Operation Orbital, has trained over 17,500 Ukrainian
service members since its inception in 2015. Last year British Defence Secretary Ben
Wallace confirmed that the training mission would be extended until 2023. It is explicitly
designed to transform the Ukrainian military in order to meet NATO standards: to be a NATO
proxy army on Russia's western border."
To which my own response was:
"I strongly agree with Igor Strelkov: war now is preferable for Russia than (inevitable)
war later. I also completely agree with him that the Ukranazi cancer should have been
eliminated in 2014, or, failing that, the Donbass armies should have been permitted by the
Putinist regime to liberate Slovyansk and Mariupol, or, even better, liberate Odessa and
advance to the Dneiper. If that had been done then, there would have been no problem now.
The Empire is trying to surround and castrate Russia. Russian interests are being hit
every day. Sanctions for ever, more and more.
Putin has to come up with something exceptionally crazy and unexpected. another level of
asymmetry. Russian stockpile is "officially" of about 6.400 nuclear heads of which 1600
operational, probably more than that. This Nuclear Capital should be "invested ". Putin
should convince Iran to change policy and accept donation or lease of 200-300 nuclear heads.
Siria,Venezuela and maybe Korea should be given a number of tactical nuclear weapons for self
defence. China,as well,with Russian help,should double the Nuclear Potential. A political
Earthquake would shake the Empire. Russia survival
is the Stake.
USA givesall its manufacturing to then moans about China carbon emissions. Chine is worlds
largest solar panel manufacturer, us moans about China carbon. USA blocks Nord Stream 2 gas
supply to Germany then moans about Russian carbon emissions. USA hasthe poorest house
insulation regulationa and moans about others carbon emissions.
China achieves major reafforestation targets and reclaims huge tracts of desert and USA
ignores it, continues to strip forests at home and everwhere else.
USA needs to build a bridge to its future and to common sense.
@ pnyx -- It's not only that USians are unaware of much of what's happening in other
countries, it's the fact they are misinformed and misled about current events by propaganda.
This is also the case in Europe because their MSM also have been co-opted by the coordinated
Intelligence Apparatus (CIA - MI6 - FiveEyes) that controls the flow of information in the
U.S. MSM. We are witnessing censorship/control of Social Media, Search Engines, and formerly
independent websites as well.
This is an all-out effort of Class War. One aspect of this is to broadcast a hidden
personal message that if I feel oppressed, "it must be my own fault" because "success"
supposedly is within everyone's grasp (note the emphasis on celebrity 'culture').
Russia has shown an astonishing amount of 'strategic patience' in the face of racism,
lies, insults, seizure of diplomatic property, obstruction of officials coming to the UN,
possibly a hand in the murder of their high rank military landing in Syria, perhaps the
downing of their choir, US silence of US radar data 'highly likely' showing Ukraine downing
the Malaysian aircraft, fabrications everywhere, and so very much more.
Well, the cup of patience runneth over.
"These steps represent just a fraction of the capabilities at our disposal. Unfortunately,
US statements threatening to introduce new forms of punishment show that Washington is not
willing to listen and does not appreciate the restraint that we have displayed despite the
tensions that have been purposefully fuelled since the presidency of Barack Obama.
Recall that after a large-scale expulsion of Russian diplomats in December 2016 and the
seizure of Russian diplomatic property in the US, we did not take any response measures for
seven months. We responded only when Russia was declared a US adversary legislatively in
August 2017.
In general, compared to the Russian diplomatic missions in the United States, the US
Embassy in Moscow operates in better conditions, enjoying a numerical advantage and
actively benefitting from the work of Russian citizens hired in-country. This form of
disparity frees up "titular" diplomats to interfere in our domestic affairs, which is one
of the main tenets of Washington's foreign policy doctrine.
...the reality is that we hear one thing from Washington but see something completely
different in practice... a proposed Russian-US summit. When this offer was made, it was
received positively and is now being considered in the context of concrete
developments. "/BLOCKQUOTE>
The last bit is deliberately ambiguous. Ha ha ha ha ha!
Posted by: Bernard F. | Apr 17 2021 21:21 utc | 38
I suspect Sullivan and Blinken's next gig will be something like that. "We came here to
forget", but instead of the French Legion, it will be PMC Wagner.
Personally what I would do would be a Operation Bagration 2.0 at the slightest misstep by
Ukraine. There is may too much on the table here. Bio labs, nests of NATO rats, nuclear power
plants, NATO missiles on the Ukrainian and Belarus borders with Russia. Time to clear out the
rats including Lviv. After disinfecting this part of eastern Europe (again) of that other far
more dangerous virus, Nazism, life will be much more peaceful in that part of the world, and
likely by the domino effect (yes I actually said that!) to other places in the world plagued
by US exceptionalism.
"Why was all of this allowed to happen in the first place?"
The apparent change in stance is unlikely a ruse because a ruse presumes that Russia would
take the bait.
The change is unlikely due to a miscalculation on Ukraine's part because Ukraine was well
aware of the strength of the juggernaut just to the east before Ukraine sent men and materiel
that way.
The change is unlikely due to a miscalculation on Washington's part because a likely
drubbing of Ukraine with Washington sitting on the sidelines would result in a loss of
prestige vis a vis Russia and China.
I'd suggest the change -- if there really is such a change -- is more likely the result of
Germany, and maybe France, exerting simultaneous pressure on Washington and Kiev, coupled
with leading sectors of the bureaucracy in both Washington and Kiev agreeing with Merkel
(Washington for its own reasons and Kiev because of Washington's instructions) that a war
does not advance their interests.
Washington is in a position similar to that of Britain prior to the Suez Crisis: one loss
away from losing its preeminence on the world stage. Losing that position over a conflict
involving, essentially, a gas pipeline to Germany is not worth the risk.
It's likely that Washington's apparent stance is symptomatic of significant discord
between the Neocons and the less belligerent of the foreign policy establishment. It appears
that the Neocons may have lost this round. One can expect the schism to continue to play out
over the coming years
vk@29 writes "[My comment@24] is nonsense: if Ukraine takes back the Donbas basin, it will
have full control over Crimea. The option of
'trading' the Donbas for Crimea doesn't exist."
It's hard to know how seriously this is meant. Luhansk and Donetsk are not *the* Donbas.
Kharkiv is culturally and economically as much Donbas, for a start. And Odessa is a major
center of Russian population, too, even if not part of the Donbas. At any rate, insofar as
the "Donbas" is essential to control Crimea, though, it is Kherson and Zaporizhye provinces
that control the water supply. And it is Mariupol's port that contests the Sea of Azov.
That's the part of Donbas that vk implies to be essential for full control of Crimea. But if
Mariupol is essential for full control, then Putin neither has full control now, nor does he
want it, because it is apparently Putin who pressured the rebels into leaving Mariupol in
Ukrainian hands. By the criteria vk uses here, Putin doesn't have full control of Crimea now.
This could be understood to show that in the long run Luhansk/Donetsk are untenable too,
trapped in a race to collapse with Kyiv. And it would show too that Putin needs a genuine
peace in Crimea, needs to do something, because in the long run, time is not on his/Russia's
side. The thing is of course, is that either vk doesn't mean what is actually written, or vk
won't draw the conclusions vk's own premises require.
Ukraine's leadership doesn't care about their civilians and soldiers. US and NATO
leadership care even less for them. In the current context actions speak far louder than
words.
Even the dimmest and most senile leaders can figure out some of the following:
• Russia is not bluffing. Bluffing is not their style.
• Neither the US nor NATO will put boots on the ground of Donbass or Crimea.
• Against Russia the US surface ships in the Black Sea are floating targets, as they are
anywhere else in the world.
• There won't be a Minsk3 agreement.
• Nord Stream 2 will be completed no matter what. For the respect, Russia doesn't need
the revenue so much.
If in fact Ukraine backs down, it will be a Biden continuation of Trump's off-repeated
stunt of walking to the edge and then backing off. You can't expect innovation from senile
players.
Crimea needs water badly with summer coming on.
Any Ukrainian or Russian advance cannot happen across bogs and mud. Wait until the rain
stops, or sink.
I saw somewhere that Zelensky actually thought of opening the canal sometime ago but was
"stopped". It was never made clear WHO ordered him not to, or who ordered him to start an
anti-Russian drive, or.....etc.
b's post undelines that the previous lines of cultural/liguistic division have not gone
away, and have probably hardened. The Nasty brigade are actually in lands that probably do
not appreciate them being there. (ie, the Russian speaking areas under Ukie control are
probably not overjoyed to become "permanent collateral damage")
*
Anyone else notice the large movement of Chinese ships in the South China Sea?
Doubled trouble for the Empire? They hardly get the time to concentrate on claiming "rights
of passage" through Indian territoral waters, or in the Black sea, or in the Artic, without
someone stirring the pot. Whatever next?
A diversion or just taking advantage of the limited scope of the attention span of whoever
is in command in the US ?
@vk "And that's the objective truth: if the Ukraine conquers the DPR and LPR, it will
essentially cut off Crimea from Russia."
How so? It doesn't seem to me that a hypothetical merger of DPR, LPR, and Ukraine would
have any effect on Crimea.
In fact, if DPR and LPR join according to the Minsk2 conditions, it could help, as they
would (theoretically) become a significant political factor on the national level. Which is
why Kiev is not interested in a peaceful unification.
And even a military conquest (which is what you're talking about) would create problems
for Kiev, as disenfranchising (or expelling) most of the population there might be somewhat
problematic.
"One should therefore consider that the sudden call for a renewed ceasefire might be a
ruse." --our host
Precisely. The US prefers to start its conflicts with a sucker punch, but that is only
possible if the target is unprepared and looking the other way. Russia only needs to let its
guard down and look away for a moment for the empire to take advantage of it. Notice how the
ukrops are not moving their attack forces back? They will attack while the US ships are in
the Black Sea to monitor the fighting and provide direction.
Donbass does not have strategic depth. The plan is to hit the republics with a suicide
bum-rush. America doesn't care how many of the ukrop aggressors are exterminated in the
attack so long as some units survive to take up positions in the city centers. The empire's
strategists figure that with a sudden enough and massive enough assault, and given at least
some element of surprise, this can be accomplished overnight. The ukrop cannon fodder will be
given orders to not bother securing any areas they overrun and instead continue to charge
forward.
Suicidal? Absolutely, because any Novorossiya troops that are overrun will regroup behind
the ukrop aggressors and pull back, cutting off the units that penetrated into the cities.
That's when those advance ukrop units will go all "Shock & Awe™" on the
urban civilians to draw the Novorossiya units away from their established positions and
demoralize them.
So long as the Russians are not caught with their pants down they should be able to easily
repel the ukrop assault. If they are thinking this through clearly then the Novorossiya
troops, with the Russians at their backs, should push for the Dniper in order to acquire that
much needed strategic depth. At the same time the Black Sea should be completely cleared of
any hostile vessels, and obviously that means the American ships.
I disagree about DNR and LNR are of importance for Russia to keep hold on Crimea. Crimea
secession was prior to the insurrection in eastern Ukraine, they tried to copy Crimean
secession (even held referenda in 2014) To the frustration of DNR/LNR activists as well as
many russian nationalists, the russian government has rejected all pleas to incorporate the
breakaway regions or Ukraine into Russia. On contrary, it has repeatedly tried to broker a
compromise, and the Minsk accords are part of. Putin even ostensibly bound his hands by
forcing a Duma decree in 2015, revoking the "Medvedyev doctrine" from 2008 Georgian conflict
which authorized use of force when ethnic Russians were threatened, Anyway, the russian
government could not abandon the insurgency in Donbas without risking to be toppled by
nationalists.
One should keep this in mind: Russia does not want the ethnically russian parts of Ukraine
which would comprise of most of it. It was not Russia who escalated the inner ukrainian
divide. And militarily, LNR and DNR are in no way helpful for Crimea. Normal relations
between the RF and Ukraine would be in Russia's interest, would belp both countries. But that
is what the West prevents at any cost, to the last Ukrainian. Only the dumb ukronazis don't
realize that.
@53 vk Ukraine will never get back DNR and LNR by military means, but, if at all, only via
a compromise alongside the Minsk accords. And if you speak to realistic Ukrainians (there are
not few, even in the nazi infested galicia and volyn), they all realize that Crimea is gone,
and that it always only grudgingly agreed to be an autonomous republic inside Ukraine until
2014.
Its not just the Fortuna laying pipe now, the Akadamik Cherskiy has been on the job for
about 10 day and she can lay pipe faster. According to the plans submitted to the Danes, in
whose waters they are laying, Fortuna is expected to finish in May whilst the AC has
permission until September but is expected to finish early.
As to the USN ships (Black sea regular USS Ross passed Gib inbound Med today) are not due in
until the start of next week and will leave early May. What their role, apart from being a
gesture of support for Ukraine, is is not clear. An obvious job of one, if not both, could be
to be tied up at a berth in Odessa harbour as a poison pill to try to make sure that Russia
does not attack that part of the coast. Were there to be an attack of course.
Seems to be a big mistake by the US to me. I can understand what they are trying to do
but, given the option above, if they stay at sea it will be a clear statement that they don't
want to get that involved. I'm sure it is not their intention to be so open in showing their
true objective.
Another possible reason for a delay until May is that the Orthodox Church celebrates its
Eater Sunday on the 2nd May.
William R Henry 52
There is no need to go to the Dneiper to gain sufficient strategic depth, not only would
that be a political nightmare but just stopping at the oblast borders should be sufficient.
Included in that would be Mariupol, the only Ukrainian port on the Sea of Azov. That would
make Donbass economically viable.
No need to clear the Black Sea, Russia totally dominates over, on and under it.
Wouldnt this be the second time that Zelinski used thread of conflict to help himself in
election?
It seems an important point. Why would B over look it, I wonder.
Declaring war and then declaring peace. I guess one cannot chose ones neighbors.
I thought Russia stood to benefit from war. They should keep pressure on Zelinski -
training, preparations and support of Donbass. Seems Russia is very measured with
assistance.
b. :
"It seems that order has come from Washington to stand down - at least for now."
The Postman Always Rings Twice
Bloomberg:
Secretary of State Antony Blinken is set to return to Brussels next week for more meetings
with NATO and European officials, according to people familiar with the matter, as the U.S.
grows increasingly concerned about Russian troop movements near Ukraine.
The meetings will take up most of the week,[...]
Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin will be in Brussels at the same time, for a meeting with
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.
"Frank muses that just as the postman always rings a second time to make sure people
receive their mail, fate has made sure that he and Cora have both finally paid the price for
their crime.
"Schöne Wochenende". Next week will be interesting as last 3 were.
Maybe I missed it but there were elections in Ukraine last Sunday and
"The new Verkhovna Rada (parliament) of the Ukraine, elected on Sunday, will have an
overwhelming national mandate to negotiate peace terms to end the five-year civil
war.
You misssed it....
Those elections were in 2019....
Zelenski has been compromised since then... most notably via loss of his plutocrat
mentor...
The CIA/NSA/RightSector are firmly in charge, because Zelenski did not use his mandate to
throttle them.
The best he could have done, was to invite Russia in for the purpose of "stabilizing"
ukraine.
Western nations chided Russia for failing to turn up at talks in Vienna on Saturday aimed
at defusing tension over Ukraine, where a Russian troop buildup close to the border between
the two countries has sparked fears of renewed conflict.
MOSCOW, February 5. /TASS/. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told a press conference
Friday following talks with EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy
Josep Borrell.
"Therefore, we organize our life coming from the premise that the EU is not a reliable
partner, at least at this stage,"
"I hope that the strategic review which is coming will finally pay attention to vital
interests of the European Union in its closest vicinity " Lavrov stressed.
"I hope that today's talks will help us reach a more constructive trajectory. We are
ready for it."
@b - "...why was all of this allowed to happen in the first place?"
J Swift offered a good clue in his
comment in the previous thread:
"the Nuland crowd have played right into Russia's hands, because the Ukraine is definitely
a place where Russia has escalation dominance. I suspect that when some of those famous
military channels began chatting, the Russians were not so friendly, and made it clear that
an offensive by the Ukies would not only free Russia's hand toward the Nazis and provide a
perfect excuse to rid the East and South of them, but that Russia would be specifically
targeting US/NATO "advisers," command centers, resupply aircraft or any aircraft entering
Ukrainian airspace, and would be just waiting for any US ship in the Black Sea to do
something remotely involving it in the conflict, such that it would be on the bottom in
minutes."
We know from Pepe Escobar's latest article ,
presenting highlights from the recent important interview with Nikolai Patrushev (Secretary
of the RF Security Council), that Patrushev, a very dangerous and serious man, enjoys
undiminished communications with Washington, including a March phone discussion with Jake
Sullivan, White House security advisor. If his interview is anything to go by, his candid
discussions with US leadership could have scared them totally awake.
Once again, it could well be that the neocons talked up a blazing firestorm that the
generals and security professionals ultimately had to pour water on.
Patrick Armstrong in his
latest article gives us ample evidence that Victoria Nuland, back in power and riding
high, is also vastly ignorant and imperceptive, incapable of learning or reflection, and
mediocre in her intelligence. The neocons, as Armstrong points out, have always failed. And
they have led the US down a path of loss.
If in fact this Ukraine adventure is over for the moment (if in fact it ever was real in
the first place), then it bears total resemblance to every other neocon stupid idea, that
goes as far down the path to ruin as it can, sometimes being stopped by wiser heads,
sometimes simply charging over the edge, into the abyss.
If Russia gets to choose, one assumes Russia would prefer no military activity in Ukraine.
And if Russia is forced into military action, one also assumes as best guess that Russia will
reshape the map to a better end for all. It could just be that Russia managed to communicate
this to the US, and that the US managed to hear.
@74 Yes but that doesn't really address b's question. Why was this allowed to happen in
the first place? We know all about Nuland and her cookies and encouragement from Washington.
But why was the Minsk agreement broken? Why do the Ukies keep lobbing shells into
Donbass?
Those troops are bored. I'm sticking with my vodka theory.
Just to clarify: Russia has already officially stated (many years ago) that it doesn't
want any other piece of the Ukraine (i.e. any other piece beyond Crimea). It wants the
Ukraine to survive in the form of a federalized State with the DPR and LPR enjoying high
levels of autonomy (a la Spain).
Ukraine is not profitable to Russia. It would drain its coffers were it to have to conquer
and absorb it entirely.
Time is in Russia's favor: let the Ukraine continue to serve as a financial black hole to
the IMF. Let the Western Ukrainians continue to emigrate en masse to Poland and then to the
rest of the EU and the UK. Russia has already received some 1 million Eastern Ukrainian;
those are probably the more well-educated, more productive Ukrainians, and they gave it some
relief from its chronic negative population problem - all of that without having to advance
one inch over continental Ukraine.
Germany vetoed any more provocations by the US or nato against the Donbass/Crimea that
would clearly call in massive Russian support. Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation;
an end of that part of the story - and there are several hundred thousand people in the
Donbass that now have Russian passports. Russia won't stand for any of it. No matter how much
the dumb Ukrainians or the lackey Poles or their US/nato masters huff and puff and
bellow.....
it is also not in the slightest German interests for a war to break out right in the
middle of Europe that might escalate into a nuclear confrontation, nor is it in their
national interest to lose the Nord Stream 2 project... at all.
I don't know about France's position in all this but either France or Germany could/would
exercise veto over any nato troops/intervention in the Ukraine.
time to return to the Minsk agreements. in spite of the incredible stupidity of the US
foreign policy Establishment and those jackass war-mongers Blinken, Nuland and Austin et.
al.
Do you really expect the Amerikastani Empire's puppet Ukranazi coup regime to say "we will
attack"? Instead it will attack and then claim Russia attacked it. Just like Hitler's
Gleiwitz radio station false flag attack that started WWII.
Zelensky in Istanbul. Erdogan to refuse to recognize Crimea as Russian territory..
Saw a tweet today saying something along the lines of Russia preventing flights to Turkey
this summer for "Covid" reasons, read between the lines..
Time is in Russia's favor: let the Ukraine continue to serve as a financial black hole to
the IMF. Let the Western Ukrainians continue to emigrate en masse to Poland and then to the
rest of the EU and the UK. Russia has already received some 1 million Eastern Ukrainian;
those are probably the more well-educated, more productive Ukrainians, ...
Posted by: vk | Apr 11 2021 1:20 utc | 77
This is rather sketchily related to reality.
1. Ukraine is not a "black hole for the IMF". They got a smallish credit, and now they are
being denied extensions on rather preposterous grounds, and Ukraine is charged for the unused
credit line. Contrary to Nulands boasting, the West keeps Ukraine on a leash with a rather
skimpy budget.
2. There is no clear distinction between migration patterns. The one time I was in Russia,
the tourist guide on a one-day bus trip was from Rivne -- in Poland in years 1918-39. And as
Polish medical workers go to Spain etc., Ukrainian once fill the vacant positions, and they
may come from any place. Ditto with the "quality of workers". Poland has more of seasonal
jobs in picking crops (while Poles do it further West) than Russia, Russia perennially seeks
workers ready to accept extra pay in less than benign climes. The closest to truth is
scooping engineers and highly qualified workers from factories that before worked for Russian
market, including military, replaced with Russian factories and, when needed, Ukrainian
know-how. That is pretty much accomplished -- predominantly from the Eastern Ukraine. As a
result, the remaining workforce is so-so from east to west.
It's been made clear that a Ukrainian attack on the D & L republics would be met with
a direct Russian intervention into the conflict and likely would result in the loss of the
whole of the disputed oblasts to the separatist republics. Russia has no intention of
eliminating Ukraine or occupying Kyiv, but that kind of defeat in the east would spell the
end of what political stability remains in Ukraine and likely lead to a new Maidan against
Zelensky and possibly further secessions. That's the real downside of this for Russia.
Ukraine is threatening to immolate itself as a form of brinksmanship.
Failing that death wish, only if Moscow somehow agrees to stay out of the war does this
have the remotest possibility of achieving what the Kyiv government needs. Otherwise it will
not attack.
@ Lozion | Apr 11 2021 2:18 utc | 81 with the link about the Ukraine/Turkey meeting
today..thanks
Interesting position by Erdogan and I would think it would effect Turkey's purchase of
Russian defense equipment but who knows where the complexity balance resides in the ME.
Lots of tinder just waiting for a spark to point the blame at for world conflagration. I
will believe this situation is cooling when I read about the US ships turning around and not
going into the Black Sea.
Erdoğan has several goals in Ukraine. Show Russia that he is strong and important for
Russia as he has influence on Ukraine. Show the USA that he is an active participant of NATo.
Sell his military drones to whoever wants them as well as other turkish products.
He appears as a king maker and gets business and approval from russia,the EU and the Usa to
avoid a war. A very successful move needed to rehabilitate Erdoğan seriously in trouble
with both the usa and the EU...
The western press is portraying the events of the past few weeks as representing an
unmotivated unilateral Russian troop buildup.
Canada's Globe and Mail yet again deliberately deceives its readers with omission-plagued
reporting which the author must know is wrong. This includes describing the Minsk agreements
as "the Kremlin's version of how to make peace" which are being utilized in an "enforcement
operation" featuring a "coercive use of force" meant to "induce Kyiv, Berlin and Paris" to
accept "Moscow's terms." Awful reporting by any objective measure.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-ukrainian-commander-sees-parallels-with-2014-as-russian-military-build/
Meanwhile, a Heritage Foundation flunky describes "spontaneous" Russian deployments
designed to "keep Ukraine out of organizations such as the EU or NATO".
Russia should be opposed because: "Modern Ukraine represents the idea in Europe that each
country has the sovereign ability to determine its own path, to decide with whom it has
relations, and how and by whom it is governed." https://www.arabnews.com/node/1840341
Both reporters make the same observation in opening paragraphs, supporting the notion that
these pieces are derived from a distributed script or collection of talking points:
1) "For weeks, Russian social media accounts have been flooded with videos showing long
convoys of tanks, troop trucks and artillery pieces "
2) "Dozens of videos in social media posts show hundreds of Russian tanks and armored
vehicles pouring into the region."
I have a feeling, it's only a feeling right now, that the looted black hole that's
Ukranazistan after 7 years of "freedom " is such a drain that the EUNATO gangsters behind the
Maidan would love to palm the ruins off to Russia. "Here, you broke it, you own it."
"
MOSCOW, April 11 (Xinhua) -- Russia does not seek a war with Ukraine but is concerned for the
Russian-speaking population in the country's eastern Donbass region, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry
Peskov said Sunday.
"No one is going to move towards a war, and no one at all accepts any possibility of such
a war," Peskov told a Russian TV program.
"Russia has never been a party to this conflict (between Kiev and insurgents in Donbass).
But Russia has always said that it will not remain indifferent to the fate of Russian
speakers who live in the southeast of Ukraine," he added.
According to the spokesman, Kiev refuses to fulfill its responsibilities under the Minsk
agreements on a Donbass settlement, with government forces intensifying "provocative actions"
in the region.
Russia, Germany and France are "bewildered" by Kiev's recent claims that the Minsk
agreements are useless, Peskov said, adding that there are no alternatives to the pacts for a
peaceful settlement of the conflict.
Political advisers of the Russian, German, French and Ukrainian leaders are working
towards holding a summit on eastern Ukraine, he said.
"
but I do see this situation more as having put the Maidan-coalition on the back-foot and
having to disentangle themselves, rather than a carefully pre-planned and coordinated
operation.
Thank you and I humourously appreciated your allusions to the asylum that has captured
Ukraine. The Maidan Murder Coalition has discovered its karma that was always lying in wait.
These villainous rsoles will seriously collapse under the weight of it all, particularly the
sniper trick shooters on the Maidan crowds.
I loved this line: "Everyone can recall a wide-spread (spread most likely by some overly
zealous, but not very literate, Russian "patriots") rumor about DDG-75 USS Donald Cook having
her electronics "burned" by a couple of intrepid Russian Su-24s in April of 2014, who
allegedly forced this American ship to fast return to Constanta, where, allegedly some of her
crew expressed a desire to abandon the ship. NYT and other US media, not without
justification, called those rumors to be Russian "propaganda". They have a point."
Which seems as good a moment as any to plug my new product (!!). Since that picture of
Col. Brittany visiting Donbass in uniform of 72th mechanized division with a prominent skull
badge reminded me so of the sketch 'Are we the Baddies' it is time to market my new velcro
badges with rainbows and BLM logos. Stick them anywhere to show you're part of the right
camp! If you shoulder badges may offend leftist softies, just stick these badges on top of
them for the perfect photo op! HTS already ordered a large batch. Now 20% off and buy two get
one free!
Turkey wants to build on its successes in Nagorno Karabach to sell its weapon systems to
Ukraine. Whether they also explicitly wish the conflict to explode is less clear.
Erdogan needs money, cash. The same seems to be true of most if not all Western
politicians. But some, like Erdogan and Bibi, need lots of money.
Putin on the other hand, does not need cash. He has a healthy fiat currency at his
disposal and sells a lot of food, oil, lumber, weapons etc. internationally.
I don't think Ukraine is going to be a good source of cash for Erdogan, or Bibi. They need
a lot of cash too.
So there is a massive build-up on both sides in Ukraine? ( The following comment was
provoked by info from a tweet that the Ukrainians have "found" a secret plan by the Kremlin
for a union with Donbas .. unconfirmed )
What if......?
... The Russians and the Dondbas/Luhansk actually DO declare a union with Russia? There is no
"need" for the Russians to physically "invade" the area. They can just sit there and wait for
the Ukrainians to do something. Then IF Zelensky decides, it is he who has to "start"
the conflict. As a plan it is the perfect reversal of the usual Russian "aggression".
Zelensky's bluff called?
A "union" is just another way of saying "it is ours EVEN IF the title is nominally someone
elses, stuff you".
The massive forces on the "frontlines" are there to remind the Ukes and their backers what
"might" happen, IF they "invade" Donbas/Luhansk. What can they do about it? Make rude noises
in the background?
The US, Israel and Turkey are all examples of one country simply "taking over" parts of
another country - without any legality whatsoever. US in NE Syria, Turkey with it's advance
of 32km all along a new frontline, with a wall between itself and Syria. Israel with the
Golan. None of them have the slightest legal reason to be there. (Chinese claim the
Spratleys, which is a legal fig-leaf).
Lateral thinking by Putin? Would he even need a legal fig-leaf?
It is an interesting idea, and I would not want to say it will not happen, but it seems
un-Putin-like to me based on past performance. He's been very comfortable with frozen
conflicts in the past. And I think he probably still wants Ukraine as a buffer, friendly but
not Russia, and to keep it whole minus Crimea.
This way he would still "keep" Ukraine on a tether, and avoid being accused of
aggression.
OK, it may go that way but the silence (from Putin) and the refusal of the Russians to
give more than vague reasons for their actions, does mean that the west's MSM have nothing to
froth at the mouth about- Let Zelensky stew in his own juice.
As well as the regular Army and volunteers, He is going to end up with seven thousand
ex-jihadists employees, multiple "mercenaries" from the US and the other parts of the world,
orders for Drones, arms etc. BUT he is losing $3 billion revenue from gas (the transit of
which has been "slowing down") since the 1st April. I don't know what he has contracted to
supply to those futher along the pipeline. Plus the debts to the WB and IMF.
So how long can he keep up the expense of having a standing army of 105'000 or more at the
ready?
The Russians can wait them out. If they just don't "talk" or give any PR leeway to the
west, then with the attention span of the goldfish in the EU and US citizens, it will drop
once again from view. (20 seconds for a goldfish otherwise they would get bored going round
and round in a bowl ?)
Diesen in his book, Russia's Geoeconomic Strategy for a Greater Eurasia , provides
the rationale for the Outlaw US Empire's actions in Ukraine, that are actually aimed at NATO
members, which it fears will be enticed by Russia and fracture the alliance:
"This susceptibility to outside sabotage of regional unity [NATO] can be mitigated by
centralizing power by, for example, instigating more overt military tensions to strengthen
alliance unity." [Pg. 22]
This also serves to provide additional energy to the Russophobic Narrative and the
unfounded rationale for anti-Russian sanctions. The Empire must at all costs continue NATO's
viability for that ensures the Empire's geoeconomic and geopolitical control of the EU. The
same is true in East Asia where the anti-China narrative must be continued to keep Japan and
South Korea under the Empire's thumb, although South Korea is slowly slipping away.
NATO commissars chase Ukrainian conscripts into RU artillery and machinegun fire until
they lose control over their units, which immediately flee the battlefield (as usual).
If V.V. Putin feels merciful, there's no Buratino rocket barrages on troop concentration
points, as happened during Ilovaisk debacle.
Now, hopefully NATO will puff up and use their vaunted Israeli drones during the attack,
so RU can study the remains.
You never, ever attack entrenched, prepared and boresighted Russians in tank country, without
air superiority, because if you do you get Kursk.
In the best case.
In worst, and most probable case, NATO will get another Saur Mogila disaster.
@Zarathustra urriculum. The Russians must stop protecting the Jews who control the
narrative everywhere. Jews must no longer control more than 10% of the media. They are only
1-2% of the population.
Like the Jews, Galician Ukrainians are always victims. What they did to the Poles during
the German occupation is forgotten.
The zionists are in control in the Ukraine and if they start a war with Russia the Ukraine
is going to be destroyed, Russia has warned Ukraine over and over but being the typical
zionists that they are, they will accept nothing but destruction and bloodshed as long as it
is someone elses blood and destruction.
The zionists have destroyed Iraq and Syria and Libya and Yemen and America.
@alwayswrite ous Regions/Republics had the legal right to secede from the given SSR they
were attached to. Furthermore, once USSR dissolved, any legal basis for a given (former) SSR
to have sway on the given Autonomous Soviet Republic ended.
@Miro23 Germans are surely going to become tired of all this CIA/Neo-con BS.
Merkel and Macron know just what the US is playing at. If the Ukraine does get the deserved
thrashing, that it is literally begging for, then of course there will be German and French
knee jerk condemnations along with the ritual imposition of token sanctions. However this
dangerous episode, will likely harden the resolve of both countries to escape the grip of the
flailing hegemon, which is now in its death throes. So perhaps in the slightly longer term, the
whole episode will backfire on the US and big time at that.
Russia might feel that war in Ukraine is inevitable and perhaps it would be better now,
rather than later.
@Levtraro ganovich, henchman to Stalin, but with an agenda of his own, had his troops and
secret-police agents seize essentially ALL the food stocks from perhaps 2 million peasant
families, resulting in death by starvation for multi-millions.
Thirdly, the heaviest battles in the Second World War were mostly fought in Ukraine. Again,
the death totals of the civilian population were huge. The land was ravaged. Essentially the
entire population were deeply traumatized.
Consequently one should not wonder that to the average Russian Ukrainians appear to be dazed
and dumbed-down. So next time you see your Russian friends, kindly remind them that their
brethren to the south and west should be regarded and treated with considerable compassion.
Good comment. Basically what I have been saying since Maidan. I understand why it has not
happened but the time has definitely come. I think the demarcation would be Odessa, Kherson,
Mykolaev and then north along the Dnipro including Khortiskia and up to East Sumy. I know it
sounds warmongerish but I hope this happens. Get this shit over with. There is so much
happening in this country that discriminates against ethnic Russians more each day.
No, it isn't; it's worse. The Ukrainian army suffers huge non-combat losses every day:
accidents from drinking or narcotics, desertion, suicides. Their commanders are incompetent and
super-dumb as well as first-rate scumbags.
They well remember the Russian reconquest after the revolution and Holodomor.
That they do not remember, for that never happened, at least, not as described. What they do
remember, however, are the caldrons in 2014-2015 and their horrendous losses.
"They well remember the Russian reconquest after the revolution and Holodomor. Ukraine will
not be easily swallowed again."
Ummmmm . it would appear that the grandchildren of the architects of the Holodomor are the
ones currently in power in Ukraine. Pretty amazing level of cucking and submission if you ask
me.
@Levtraro vernment of Ukraine and that the current regime is nothing more than a puppet
state which does NOT represent the best interests of the Ukrainian people and particularly of
those particularly Russian speaking folks in Crimea and the Donbass region.
The illegitimate regime in Kiev is almost entirely Khazarian Talmudist dominated and in
cahoots with the fascistic Uniates in Galicia. That group should be entirely divorced from any
future Ukrainian state as their history has a long involvement with Western Roman Catholic
cultures and consequently is an alien entity within the body politick of Ukraine, Belarus or
Russia. Let them go their own way and not infect their neighbors to the south and east with
their culturally indigestible attitudes.
Turkey Confirms 2 US Warships To Enter Black Sea As Ukraine Posturing Grows
BY TYLER DURDEN
FRIDAY, APR 09, 2021 - 10:29 AM
Turkey's foreign ministry on Friday confirmed
that it's granted permission for US warships to use the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits to enter the Black Sea at a moment
tensions with Russia over Ukraine are spiraling higher with tit-for-tat threats. Given it revealed the initial notification
was two weeks ago, a pair of American warships are
expected imminently to enter the
Black Sea
.
The foreign ministry
said
in a statement
while referencing the treaty that regulates passage through the straits: "A notice was sent to us 15 days
ago via diplomatic channels that two U.S. warships would pass to the Black Sea in line with the Montreux Convention.
The
ships will remain in the Black Sea until May 4.
"
Typically the US gives 14-days notice prior
to sending warships into the Black Sea, according to the long established treaty with Turkey regarding use of the Bosporus to
enter the waters.
And Reuters notes the significance of the
timing
as follows
: "The United States has informed Turkey that two of its warships will pass through Turkish straits to be
deployed in the Black Sea until May 4, Ankara said on Friday, as Russia has bulked up its military forces on Ukraine's eastern
border."
Late Thursday an unnamed US defense official
had told CNN the warships would be deployed
"in the next few weeks in
a
show of support for Ukraine
,"
and further the deployment would "send a specific message to Moscow that the US is
closely watching," according to the
report
.
Importantly, all of this comes just days
after Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelensky personally urged NATO to
immediately
expand its Black Sea presence.
He had said in a phone call with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg,
"Such
a permanent presence
should be a
powerful
deterrent to Russia
, which continues the large-scale militarization of the region and hinders merchant
shipping," the
president's
press service
indicated in a readout.
Zelensky had also traveled to the site of frontline renewed fighting in the Donbas region on Thursday in a show of support to
Ukrainian national forces who are clashing with Russia-backed separatists.
While American vessels have long operated in the Black Sea, even semi-regularly conducting drills there, this time the US
ships are being sent there
specifically as a "warning" to Moscow
.
But Russia's Defense Ministry on Thursday announced naval maneuvers of its own,
confirming
that it's
moving more than 10 navy vessels from the Caspian Sea to the Black Sea
in
order to conduct naval exercises.
With the rival naval build-up on the Kremlin and Ukraine's doorstep, and with the mutual amassing of troops on either side of
the border...
what could go wrong?
Bdubs
49 minutes ago
And Trump
was the bloodthirsty war monger?
Is there
ANYTHING the left disparages the right for that is not a psychological projection?
These f-ers
need therapy.
Misesmissesme
1 hour ago
(Edited)
Man, we're doing everything we can to turn Ukraine into Poland circa 1939.
Maybe we can find an Archduke to assassinate so we can turn the clock all the way back to 1914.
USAllDay
1 hour ago
remove
link
Joe
sent his kid to Ukraine to blow lines. He'll send yours to blow up.
GreatCaesar'sGhost
1 hour ago
No nato troops will ever set foot in Ukraine. They're trying to pressure Russia into doing something
so they can force the Germans to stop nordstream. The Ukrainians can't win here and they're being used.
Not good.
BeePee
1 hour ago
There
were NATO advisors in Ukraine. Even that should be stopped.
Selling arms to Ukraine, most likely will continue. That's what companies do.
GreatCaesar'sGhost
58 minutes ago
The
Ukrainians are being pushed to make a move against Donbass and even Crimea. It is a poor country buying
expensive weapons, doesn't end well.
> Russia isn't going to invade Ukraine, much as their leaders and press seem to lose
sleep endlessly over it.
This is about blocking North Stream 2. Ukrainian government is a puppet in a bigger
geopolitical game and will do what they are told to do.
If they were ordered to invade Donbass Russia might intervene. I think Russia movement of
troupes was a pre-preemptive move to block a joint plan of the USA and some Eastern(Poland) and
Western European states to create a crisis and bury North Stream 2 by the attempt to retake the
territory by force (Georgian scenario).
While writing resolutions in which they essentially declare war on Russia (retaking Crimea
by force as a new Ukrainian government policy) Ukrainian government clearly understands that
any significant military move in Donbass might be the end of Ukraine as we know it. So they are
afraid to do anything without strong Western support, including military. That's why Biden
administration made a statement about the support of Ukrainian sovereignty and, at the same
time, probably pushing Ukrainians to make a move in Donbass.
There are two parts of Ukraine with different history and affiliations: Eastern Ukraine and
Western Ukraine.
The regime in Kiev represents Western Ukrainian nationalism and it is/was to a certain
degree resented in Eastern Ukraine (where manufacturing is concentrated) as provincial,
incompetent and corrupt. It is controlled by a handful of oligarchs -- a classic neoliberal
oligarchic republic so to speak.
That does not mean that Eastern Ukraine would welcome Russians now (after seven years of
anti-Russian propaganda by the government), but please do not write about things you have no
clue: in 2014 the situation was different with several uprisings against Provisional government
in Eastern Ukraine.
IMHO it was Putin's decision to limit Russia role that led to the current situation. As far
as I know the only large city which supported Provisional government in the East in 2014 was
Dnepropetrovsk ( the home town of oligarch Kolomoyskyi, and nationalistic politicians Kuchma
and Tymoshenko.)
IMHO Putin has the ability to occupy all Eastern Ukraine without a single shot and establish
separate "Eastern Ukrainian republic" government. But he decided not to do as the it would
result in crushing Western sanctions (which was Washington's policy from the very beginning
(google Nulangate); and that's why 2014 EuroMaidan putsch was organized and financed by the USA
with Poland, Germany and Sweden in supporting roles).
Add to this the necessary to feed pensioners (mentioned above) and the amount of money
necessary to resurrect the manufacturing which would compete with Russian's own. Which Russia
probably could not afford at the time.
REPLYHOLE IN HEAD IGNORED04/04/2021
at 4:44 am
> Russia isn't going to invade Ukraine, much as their leaders and press seem to lose
sleep endlessly over it.
This is about blocking North Stream 2. Ukrainian government is a puppet in a bigger
geopolitical game and will do what they are told to do.
If they were ordered to invade Donbass Russia might intervene. I think Russia movement of
troupes was a pre-preemptive move to block a joint plan of the USA and some Eastern(Poland) and
Western European states to create a crisis and bury North Stream 2 by the attempt to retake the
territory by force (Georgian scenario).
While writing resolutions in which they essentially declare war on Russia (retaking
Crimea by force as a new Ukrainian government policy) Ukrainian government clearly understands
that any significant military move in Donbass might be the end of Ukraine as we know it. So
they are afraid to do anything without strong Western support, including military. That's why
Biden administration made a statement about the support of Ukrainian sovereignty and, at the
same time, probably pushing Ukrainians to make a move in Donbass.
There are two parts of Ukraine with different history and affiliations: Eastern Ukraine
and Western Ukraine.
The regime in Kiev represents Western Ukrainian nationalism and it is/was to a certain
degree resented in Eastern Ukraine (where manufacturing is concentrated) as provincial,
incompetent and corrupt. It is controlled by a handful of oligarchs -- a classic neoliberal
oligarchic republic so to speak.
That does not mean that Eastern Ukraine would welcome Russians now (after seven years of
anti-Russian propaganda by the government), but please do not write about things you have no
clue: in 2014 the situation was different with several uprisings against Provisional government
in Eastern Ukraine.
IMHO it was Putin's decision to limit Russia role that led to the current situation. As
far as I know the only large city which supported Provisional government in the East in 2014
was Dnepropetrovsk ( the home town of oligarch Kolomoyskyi, and nationalistic politicians
Kuchma and Tymoshenko.)
IMHO Putin has the ability to occupy all Eastern Ukraine without a single shot and
establish separate "Eastern Ukrainian republic" government. But he decided not to do as the it
would result in crushing Western sanctions (which was Washington's policy from the very
beginning (google Nulangate); and that's why 2014 EuroMaidan putsch was organized and financed
by the USA with Poland, Germany and Sweden in supporting roles).
Add to this the necessary to feed pensioners (mentioned above) and the amount of money
necessary to resurrect the manufacturing which would compete with Russian's own. Which Russia
probably could not afford at the time.
REPLY HOLE IN HEAD IGNORED 04/04/2021
at 4:44 am
Military actions might be suicidal for Ukraine. But this exactly what the USA wants in order
to achieve its geopolitical objectives.
The danger for Ukraine in Georgia war scenario.
Notable quotes:
"... Yesterday (Ist April) the Russians stopped sending Gas via Ukraine. ..."
"... A hot war in eastern Ukraine/Crimea appears unlikely. Ukraine no doubt perceives that such a conflict means almost certain defeat. Military defeat would likely raise existential issues for Ukraine and its leadership, given the present adverse economic conditions. The Ukrainian leadership has very little to gain by waging a war and has much to lose. ..."
"... Assuming the truth of reports of a Russian military buildup along its relevant borders, such a buildup appears to be more of a warning to Kiev - and to the U.S. - not to make any rash moves. ..."
Cute /funny, but for me this points to the script that the "west" has laid out before
hand: Washington has dialed up an attack by Ukraine, has been concentrating ukrop forces
along the line of contact, and has kept its media muzzled, total media blackout, until the
Russians respond. Then let loose with the media to make it appear that the Russians are
threatening Ukraine. And per the 08/08/08 Georgia attack, if they push the button and attack
donbass, and the Russians respond, blame it on Russian aggression. Russia attacks!! Russian
aggression!! Who's to know it isn't so? They'll all be singing from the same hymn sheet. Not
like in '08 when the EU was still semi autonomous. If Washington doesn't order an attack,
then they can still point to Russia massing troops and score a propaganda victory as Russia
is intimidating poor Ukraine. Russian aggression!! And "sell" more weapons to Ukraine and
move more "advisors" in. The cost? Who cares? They'll just keep the printing press
rolling.
"Vyacheslav Nikonov: ...How dangerous is the situation in Ukraine in light of the ongoing
US arms deliveries, the decisions adopted in the Verkhovna Rada on Tuesday, and the
statements made by the Ukrainian military, who are openly speaking about a war? Where do we
stand on the Ukrainian front?
Sergey Lavrov: There is much speculation about the documents that the Rada passed and
that President Zelensky signed. To what extent does this reflect real politics? Is it
consistent with the objective of resolving President Zelensky's domestic problem of
declining ratings?
I'm not sure what this is: a bluff or concrete plans.
According to the information published in the media, the military, for the most part, is
aware of the damage that any action to unleash a hot conflict might bring.
I very much hope this will not be fomented by the politicians, who, in turn, will be
fomented by the US-led West. ...
Like President Vladimir Putin said not long ago; but these words are still relevant,
– those who try to unleash a new war in Donbass will destroy Ukraine. "
Yesterday (Ist April) the Russians stopped sending Gas via Ukraine.
The day before Zelensky "invited" NATO into Ukraine for military exercises. In the face of the amassing of Russian troops near Ukraine's borders, setting up joint
exercises involving Ukraine Army and Allied forces, including joint air patrols with NATO
aviation in Ukraine's airspace, will help stabilize the security situation in the region,
Mashovets has told his counterpart.
UNIAN:
https://www.unian.info/politics/donbas-kyiv-invites-nato-to-hold-joint-military-drills-11374195.html
(Disclaimer; I don't know much about this site)
(The day before that there was a top level meeting of NATO "to discuss the situation in
Ukraine, which might have provoked/told Zelnsky to do the former).
Talking of provocation; here is a "twit" showing a Polish, it looks like fishing vessel,
ramming a supply ship to NordStream II pipe layers. Gangster warfare? https://twitter.com/I30mki/status/1377821400325480451
Although b says that the "Russian threat" is overdone, this buildup is certainly part of
the problem as the US wants NATO in Ukraine. Therefore the more the threat is hyped the more
they can use it to "justify" changing the facts on the ground.
One side observation is that Biden is totally absent. This situation is being run by the
US High Command (Milley et al) and others who always want moar war for the cash it brings
in. The US Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State, Chairman of the JCS, and National
Security Advisor have all had phone calls with their Ukrainian counterparts over the past
three days, and General Milley spoke with General Gerasimov.
Ukraine - and the West's - main problem with Russia over the Donbass is that Russia is NOT
a party to the Minsk agreement. With both France and Germany, it is a guarantor.
The signatures on the Minsk document are that of Ukraine and the so-called republics.
Ukraine can create as many laws stating it is in an 'International armed conflict' with
Russia as it likes, it does not alter the fact that no such conflict exists, nor has it been
brought to the Security Council.
But the Minsk accord HAS been approved by the Security Council.
"On March 29, the Ukrainian Parliament (Verkhovna Rada) adopted a draft of so-called
resolution on the situation in Donbass. It seems that there is noting new in such a
document, however, it puts at stake Kiev's obligation on implementation of the Minsk
Agreement...
Such a document is not the first to be adopted in Ukraine in the last years. However,
this draft has a specific feature. It is for the first time that Ukrainian Rada adopted the
draft statement, which says that the war in Eastern Ukraine is a Russian-Ukrainian armed
conflict.
Previously, the phrase "aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine" was used
in Kiev's official documents. Today, the war in Donbass was designated as an international
armed conflict, that is, war.
Such a definition has significant juridical impact. This statement completely blocks
Kiev's implementation of the Minsk Agreements. Paragraph 2 of the Package of Measures
clearly defines that the parties to the conflict are Kiev on the one hand, Donetsk People's
Republic and Lugansk People's Republic (LDPR) on the other.
Today the Ukrainian Parliament officially declared, at the highest level, that the
parties to the conflict are Ukraine and Russia.
The resolution ensures the immediate forwarding of the text of this statement to the
national governments and parliaments of foreign states, international organizations and
their parliamentary assemblies."
The propaganda may never change but that doesn't mean the events can't be different this
time. There's video of large amounts of heavy weapons heading to the border.
A few weeks ago the US sent 350 tonnes of armoured humvees etc to Odessa. Then On 23rd
March video shows Ukraine sending trainloads of tanks etc. On 24th March Kiev passed a decree
claiming a right to retake Crimea. It's always said so but this seemed to really ratchet up
the rhetoric as it virtually commits the government to trying to retake Crimea by force.
Several videos from 29th March show different Russian trains with scores of tanks etc
heading across the Kerch bridge to Crimea, and to the Donbas border. Plus other videos of
numerous helicopters & endlessly long lines of tanks & armoured vehicles on roads as
well.
This is a buildup not seen since the hit war days of 2014.
Meanwhile a NATO Fleet enters the Black Sea for exercises with Ukraine.
A hot war in eastern Ukraine/Crimea appears unlikely. Ukraine no doubt perceives that
such a conflict means almost certain defeat. Military defeat would likely raise existential
issues for Ukraine and its leadership, given the present adverse economic conditions. The
Ukrainian leadership has very little to gain by waging a war and has much to lose.
Assuming the truth of reports of a Russian military buildup along its relevant
borders, such a buildup appears to be more of a warning to Kiev - and to the U.S. - not to
make any rash moves.
True, there is a possibility of war. Hot heads in Kiev and Washington appear always to
want war. But insofar as Washington is concerned, its domestic agenda presently appears to
hold far greater sway than does a failing outpost on the periphery of Washington's
influence.
At this juncture, then, the possibility of a significant conflict seems low by
comparison.
You are completely ignoring the overall picture. The US wants to stop Nordstream 2 and
roping NATO into a war situation with NATO would make it almost impossible to continue.
Already physical provocation is being used against the pipe-laying ships (see Stonebird's
post (2))
Personally I blame all this shit on the Nazi scum moved to the United States by Washington
after World War 2 and "weaponised". Desperate to destroy Russia and no doubt keen to acquire
Lebensraum, these Hitler fanboys and their handlers in Washington are doing everything they
can to apply Hitler's racial beliefs to Russia and make them seem like others when Russians
are as European as Hungarians, the British and the Irish and certainly more European than
Americans, Canadians and Australians. This is to make war with Russia more acceptable among
Europeans. Perhaps the Hitler fanboys in Washington need to work to improve their understand
of the Napoleonic Wars and World War 2 .
As Field Marshall Montgomery (a decent but fallible and somewhat egotistical British general)
said in 1959:
Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: "Do not march on Moscow". Various people have
tried it, Napoleon and Hitler, and it is no good. That is the first rule. I do not know
whether your Lordships will know Rule 2 of war. It is: "Do not go fighting with your land
armies in China". It is a vast country, with no clearly defined objectives.
A few years later he repeated his Rules of War and even claimed ownership for himself:
The United States has broken the second rule of war. That is: don't go fighting with your
land army on the mainland in Asia. Rule One is, don't march on Moscow. I developed those
two rules myself.
They are rules that the Hitler Fanboys and "Lost China" morons in Washington should have
tattooed on their foreheads along with a free prefrontal lobotomy.
BTW, who are the more civilised:
The use of the procedure increased dramatically from the early 1940s and into the 1950s; by
1951, almost 20,000 lobotomies had been performed in the United States and proportionally
more in the United Kingdom. The majority of lobotomies were performed on women; a 1951
study of American hospitals found nearly 60% of lobotomy patients were women; limited data
shows 74% of lobotomies in Ontario from 1948–1952 were performed on women. From the
1950s onward, lobotomy began to be abandoned, first in the Soviet Union and Europe.
.
The idea of "weaponized immigration" in the sense of bringing in immigrant hostile to their
source state and using them to overthrow their source state was applied by Washington and
largely publicized by Yasha Levine.
As some of us are superannuated, it is good to know the views of
younger generation . Top general of Ukraine addressed the deputies of Verkhovna Rada
(parliament), declared readiness of Ukrainian army to attack with the aim of "re-integrating
the temporarily not-under-control territories", but then he somberly added the perspective of
huge civilian casualties, and then started to described Russian forces currently to the
north, east and the south of Ukraine. That was taking some time, so Anna Kolesnik, at 26 one
of the youngest deputies of the ruling party, texted "We are listening to Khomchak. We need
to get out from this country."
Looks like Zelensky signed a document or Decree No. 117/2021 the other day, to recapture
the Donbas and Crimea which could also be seen as a declaration of war towards Russia, more
in the link below:
Look at the videos of massive troop build ups. Also the conscription in both the Donbas
republics & Ukraine Donetsk & Lugansk militia veterans of 2014/15 returning from
Russia to region.
To say nothing is going to happen this time seems wishful thinking.
Of course US and European concern about Russian military build-up along Russia's borders
with European nations serves a purpose: justifying even more NATO military build-up along the
other side of the Russian border which in turn generates profit for US, British and EU arms
corporations and their shareholders in the banking and finance industries (and politics as
well), and helps NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg to think he is important.
Several nations that have borders with Russia probably need the money that NATO soldiers
might spend (mostly on entertainment like watching pole-dancing performers) while stationed
on their territories. Latvia and Lithuania among others haven't done too well since joining
the EU with something like 18 - 20% of their people living in poverty and many families
dependent on remittances sent by their relatives working overseas. Instead of their resident
Russian-speaking population being a bridge between their economies and the Russian economy,
these countries prefer to deny their Russian-speaking minorities social welfare benefits and
the right to vote, unless they can speak and read their host nations' languages at
postgraduate level, and to harass them in various petty ways.
As for Ukraine, the Zelensky govt has its work cut out trying to get Crimea back so the US
military can take over the base at Sevastopol and turn the Black Sea into a US lake, and to
clear out the Donbass region of those pesky Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics and make
it secure for oil and natural gas exploration and exploitation. The Bidens depend on Zelensky
to get those oil and natural gas resources so they can get their cut.
Anna Kolesnik, cited by Piotr Berman @ 12 has it exactly. The emigres are already
arriving. Ukraine is and has been entirely a failed state. The Uke army is a joke. So they
have a new boatload of Humvees. Probably already sold. Humvees were going to stop T72 and up.
Right. High probability Ukraine simply vanishes, local residents invite stability and the
Russian army.
The normalcy bias expressed by host and commenters is extreme. Start believing in defeat.
Defeat is going to change your outlook.
"So what made the Russians suddenly move a massive invasion force toward Ukraine?
Well, it turns out that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky essentially signed a
declaration of war against Russia on March 24th. The document that he signed is known as
Decree No. 117/2021, and you won't read anything about it in the corporate media.
I really had to dig to find Decree No. 117/2021, but eventually I found it. I took
several of the paragraphs at the beginning of the document and I ran them through Google
translate
In accordance with Article 107 of the Constitution of Ukraine, I decree:
1. To put into effect the decision of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine
of March 11, 2021 "On the Strategy of deoccupation and reintegration of the temporarily
occupied territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol"
(attached).
2. To approve the Strategy of deoccupation and reintegration of the temporarily occupied
territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol (attached).
3. Control over the implementation of the decision of the National Security and Defense
Council of Ukraine, enacted by this Decree, shall be vested in the Secretary of the
National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine.
4. This Decree shall enter into force on the day of its publication
.
President of Ukraine V.ZELENSKY
March 24, 2021
Basically, this decree makes it the official policy of the government of Ukraine to retake
Crimea from Russia. Of course the Russians will never hand over Crimea willingly because they
consider it to be Russian territory, and so Ukraine would have to take it by force."
That was more than a week ago. See how much Ukraine has done about it so far? That is as
much as they are able to do. Also quoted in #17 by imo, Mike Whitney/ZH "I really had to dig
to find Decree 117"... That would be because you have been trained to look away. That decree
was well reported, just not in the house organs of the idiots.
Martyanov has a new post up. Worth reading. He cites Michael Hudson on the overwhelming
influence Russian Jews have had on US policy. I would add Polish Jews. Zbig Brezinski gets
mentioned. Ever taken a look at his pamphlet, The Grand Chessboard? It has been required
reading for all students at Thomas Pickering School (State Department) for a generation.
Theme is Ukraine is center of universe. And this is because Zbig is a Polish aristocrat with
lost family estate on outskirts of Lvov. Any fool knows emigre info is useless and emigre
aristocrat most useless of all. Any in US policy establishment who should have known better
were blinded by Russophobia. (Just a note, spellcheck on this box changed my spelling to
'Lviv' multiple times before allowing old spelling. The thought control is total.)
The deployed Russian forces are not about overwhelming the Uke army. It is an occupation
force. They will be taking territory.
I don't see mention of Ukrainian build up and increased aggression on the border of Donbass.
That's why Russian troops are building up. They are posturing defensively. It's US-backed
Zelensky that is taking the aggressive position here.
77 millions that voted for Biden are not all "f....s". Everyone has some priorities,
imperfect choices etc.
That of course applies to countries, something that "responsible media" never considers,
but this is not a good role model for us.
Russia has to rely on her resources, so defending them from military and/or financial
takeover or even nuclear blackmail is a vital interest. While there are no perfect choices,
they try to choose the better ones. And not leaving people who speak Russian to repressions
and even massacres is another vital interest.
In the current situation, Russia clearly needs a deterrence for any possible blitzkrieg
type of plan by Ukraine. But pre-emption would not be the best choice.
In turn, Ukrainian government/elite has to bet on a patron and at least make some
appearance of diligently following what the patron wants. And for that, they need to
raise/maintain tensions with Russia (and China? hard is our fate now that we are
underlings).
I'm sure oldhippie means that if the Ukies are subservient enough to the US to actually
attack, this will almost certainly be reminiscent of Georgia (rather than just some cruise
missile strikes, as some had speculated). The buildup means Russia is prepared to sweep into
the Ukraine, and probably make a special point of killing as many Nazi battalions as
possible, along with any Ukie troops who don't surrender quickly enough. I don't see them
entering Kiev, just like they didn't try to take Tblisi, but I imagine they will try to take
most of the pro-Russian territory in the East and possibly even South, until Kiev begs for a
cease-fire (just like last time), but this time the conditions of cease fire will likely be
much more strongly enforced, and then I would imagine Russia will try to establish some
assemblage of peace-keeping troops from countries they can trust (maybe Shanghi Coalition?)
so that they can withdraw their troops as soon as possible, for political reasons. Not that
it will help, but then again, I think Russia sees they'll be damned if they do, damned if
they don't, so they might as well do it. But they damn sure don't want to take ownership of
the Ukraine, just like they didn't want to own Georgia.
The Dems and Republicans are two heads of the same hydra, voting for one or the other is a
charade played on the American people and is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The US is
a state run for the benefit of the economic elite that owns the media and from which the
political elite is chosen/sponsored and which is aligned with the military elite. Presidents
will come and go, policy pretty much stays the same, its the same as CEOs of corporations -
if they don't follow profit maximization they will be booted out.
The US elites all went to the same schools (or military academy) where they were
inculcated with "American Exceptionalism" and the need for "America to be the Global
Policeman", ending up with mediocrities such as Blinken and Pompeo that thrash around as the
world moves to multipolarity and the US becomes just another important nation. It will take
at least decades for the US elite to get their heads around this, the British still haven't
as seen by their wasting of resources on showy projects such as the two useless aircraft
carriers (know as "targets" by submariners and missile batteries) to assuage its "size"
envy.
Granted I am just an armchair observer but I have been watching since before the Maidan coup.
Something feels different this time, as if the positions of the players involved have changed
somehow. I realize that the multipolar world has been incubating for some time now and that
Russia, China et.al. have been waiting patiently for USA to collapse from exhaustion, but I
rather doubt that it will do so with a wimper. There may come a time when the RF armed forces
may opt to use a quick bone crushing response to say 'enough'. While this is never an great
option to have to take due to potential reprecussions, it can sometimes be better than being
slowly swallowed by the serpeant of Mission Creep.....
"Our rhetoric [over Donbass] is absolutely constructive," Peskov said in reply to a
question. "We do not indulge in wishful thinking. Regrettably, the realities along the
engagement line are rather frightening. Provocations by the Ukrainian armed forces do take
place. They are not casual. There have been many of them."
Ukraine's economy is collapsing. Even the IMF (USA) is getting tired of giving it free
money:
Prospects for Ukraine this year to receive even the second tranche of the IMF under the $ 5
billion credit line, which Kiev agreed with the Fund last June, remain vague. Although
according to the schedule, Ukraine should have already mastered the second and third
tranches for a total of $ 1.35 billion and is about to receive the fourth tranche in the
amount of $ 0.55 billion, in fact, the first June tranche of 2.1 billion is still the only
one.
Commenting on this situation on television, Ukrainian Finance Minister Sergei Marchenko
said this week: "The IMF does not give money, because, unfortunately, as a country, we have
crumpled up some obligations and must renew them."
[...]
So far, budget holes have been bridged by historically record borrowings in December
last year (over $ 6 billion) and an increase in interest rates on domestic borrowings this
year. But last year's reserves and domestic borrowing are insufficient either to cover the
$ 9 billion budget deficit or to service the external public debt, which will cost at least
$ 8.1 billion this year (excluding the cost of securing new loans).
The IMF, by the way, is not interested in getting its money back - they already knew the
black hole they were entering into when the coup happened in 2014 - but in social
engineering: the American Empire wants a brand new province:
According to the aforementioned Sergei Marchenko, the IMF puts forward five main conditions
for returning to consideration of the issue of allocating the second tranche of the loan.
First , the Fund requires the restoration of liability, including criminal
liability, for the declaration of false information by officials and other persons for whom
such is provided in the framework of anti-corruption procedures. This type of
responsibility was actually abolished by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine (CCU) in
October last year as part of the recognition of a number of provisions of the
anti-corruption law as unconstitutional. Although almost the entire so-called
anti-corruption infrastructure in a format imposed by the West contradicts the
Constitution, the judges are concerned about this problem mainly because of the
infringement of their rights. Since then, Zelenskiy has effectively blocked the work of the
KSU, making a number of decisions that clearly go beyond his constitutional powers. And
last December, the Verkhovna Radaeven restored responsibility for declaring inaccurate
data. But within the framework of the struggle for control over the anti-corruption
infrastructure, the "seven-embassy" (the ambassadors of the G7 countries) did not even
think that responsibility had been restored.
Secondly , we are talking about the restoration of the so-called independence of
the National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU), that is, the accountability of the body to
Western curators, their actual appointment and accountability of the head of NABU, etc. and
imply the legal consolidation of the full control of the West over the entire
anti-corruption infrastructure, which in its essence is a parallel structure of government
in the state. After amending the law on NABU and recognizing as unconstitutional the
appointment of Artem Sytnik, a protege of the West, by the head of NABU Zelenskiy never
dared to fire him. But even such a manifestation of loyalty to the "seven-embassy" seemed
not enough.
Thirdly , the Fund demands urgently to "reform" the High Council of Justice, that
is, to transfer the judicial branch of power under the control of the West - by analogy
with anti-corruption bodies. In this issue, Ukraine is showing the greatest resistance so
far. Moreover, it comes both from the judges themselves and from representatives of other
branches of government. For obvious reasons: the surrender of the judicial system will
destroy even the miserable remnants of sovereignty, and most importantly, it will carry
serious risks both for judges and for various top-level officials.
Fourth and fifth - issues of the gas market and the electricity market. In the
context of these markets, the Fund is interested in the abolition of tariffs [n.t. -
probably it means here "subsidies"] for the population with a corresponding increase in
prices. The Ukrainian, let's say, elites just do not care about the problems of the
population - that is why the refusal to regulate gas prices for the population last year
became one of the first fulfilled requirements of the IMF. However, when winter came, gas
prices skyrocketed and social protests broke out across the country , and gas price
regulation had to be urgently returned. Of course, only for a while - first until April,
now until May. But the Fund did not like this either: just the other day, the head of the
IMF office in Ukraine, Jost Lyngman, called a return to gas price control in an ineffective
way of subsidizing households. Exactly the same applies to electricity prices - the tariff
for the population was raised in winter, but the Fund wants the regulated tariff to
disappear altogether. The Ukrainian authorities are, of course, ready to meet the IMF
halfway on these issues. But so that social protests do not completely reset her
ratings.
The article also mentions that Ukraine effectively cannot borrow elsewhere in the "free
market" because its bonds are rated "junk" (this we already knew, since it's been so for some
years now) and that its "borrowing rates" (interest rates) are at 12% (bonds) and 6.5%
(central bank's). In other words, Ukraine will disappear as a sovereign country, one way
(outright loss of the Eastern regions, reduction to a impoverished para-Polish rump state) or
the other (become a proto-colony of the USA a la Puerto Rico). My guess is Zelensky is
calculating an all-out war to reconquer the richer eastern regions, followed by a triumphal
accession to NATO, to be the only way out for Ukraine as a nation-state.
If Ukraine attacks the eastern provinces, there will be a repeat of Georgia 2008. The Russian
counter will be ferocious.
But Ukraine is just a puppet for America, which will use, abuse and even lose Ukraine for
*other purposes*.
Those other purposes are fortifying European subordination to NATO, cancelling Nord Stream
2 and breaking any German and French rapprochement with Moscow. US hegemony is in fact
conditional on a climate of hostility between Europe and Russia in general, and between
Germany and Moscow in particular. Hence the need to provoke Germany to cancel NS2. The
Navalny operation didn't work, and the sanctions didn't work either. So it's on to Plan C,
which might sacrifice Ukraine for the greater project of US empire.
In the bigger picture, the strategy is to globalize NATO against China. This is the Biden
regime's specific strategy of provoking minor conflicts to fortify alliances and bloc
politics for taking on China and Russia. Ukraine is just disposable trash in this game.
That Merkel and Macron just met with Putin is further evidence of the unlikeliness of war.
Frau Merkel in particular has an interest in preventing a war because it is Germany who needs
the Nordstream pipeline (to Washington's displeasure); the Russians can just as easily sell
their natural gas to China if Nordstream falters. Thus the Germans are more likely to exert
pressure on Ukraine to forebear than they are to let Ukraine loose the dogs of war.
I agree with you, oldhippie @ 20. And thanks to b and other posters here who have kept us
well apprised of the events in Ukraine as the buildup commenced on the Ukrainian side,
supported by US munitions.
Actually, as far as I can understand it, if the Russians do enter Ukraine it will be at
the behest of the Ukrainians themselves, just as it was in Crimea. They will be as supportive
as possible of the Donbass, which is already back in the Russian Federation in every way
except the formal declaration.
But Russia wants the country of Ukraine to remain whole. That's a big ask, but it surely
must include all areas like Odessa in order to be viable as a member of the Federation. I
don't know if that is possible yet, but rule by force has existed for so long under such
duress there, that I do believe the entire civilian population would be happy to have this
happen. And in will come the Russian aid, pouring in on tanks if need be, to a population
weary of hardship.
Russia certainly doesn't want to be on a war footing with Ukraine, since it considers the
citizenry to be its own people historically speaking, as Putin has said many times. It will
not force the issue; it can be patient. But if its troops do enter, they will only do so if
they are welcome; and I think that welcome mat is fast being woven, as fast as Penelopes in
the Donbass can weave it. And as for the rest of Ukraine, plenty of Penelopes there as
well.
It may not be Ukraine will enter the Federation immediately - there will have to be talks
and so much restructuring politically speaking before that can happen. But if the hand of
Russia is still extended in friendship to places like the US, it most certainly would be to a
sane and peaceful Ukrainian government.
This time the buildup is very real. But NATO has no reason to be "concerned", as it is
they who have the initiative. Russia will only move in response to a Ukrainian attack on
Donbass. Ukraine will only attack after it gets approval or direct orders from
Washington.
Work on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is progressing fast. I estimate that pipelaying
may be finished by the end of May. To prevent it from happening, Ukraine has to attack in
April. Rumors claim that the planned date of the attack is April 15, 2021. The problem on the
Ukrainian side is that there is no sensible war plan, apart from attacking Donbass and then
immediately withdrawing to defensive position on the western shore of the Dnieper River.
Christelle Néant from Donetsk published this on March 16th, citing Ukrainian
sources.
In an enlightening article, the Ukrainian media outlet Strana revealed that not only is
the Ukrainian army preparing for an offensive in the Donbass, but that there is an
emergency plan to stop the attack if Russia were to send its own army in. This information
is nothing less than a debunking of seven years of Ukrainian propaganda, which claims that
Ukraine is fighting Russia in the Donbass.
The article is based on sources in the Ukrainian army and the Defence Ministry, and
begins by questioning the reality of Kiev's preparation for an offensive against the
Donbass.
Strana's sources on the front line confirm that there is no longer a ceasefire, nor a
withdrawal of troops and equipment. The source even makes it clear that it was Ukraine that
first violated this provision of the Minsk package of measures, and that the DPR and LPR
(Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics) did so only afterwards, in response to the
violation by the Ukrainian army.
...
BUT, because there is a but in this kind of rather too pretty plan, if Russia sends its
army to intervene then the Ukrainian army will have to give up its offensive against the
Donbass and withdraw.
"In this case, the AFU offensive will be stopped. With a high degree of probability,
the troops will then have to withdraw, so as not to fall again into cauldrons," says the
Strana source in the Ukrainian Defence Ministry.
In other words, for the Ukrainian army's offensive in the Donbass to work, Russia must
not intervene. The problem for Kiev is that Russia has no intention of letting several
hundred thousand of its citizens die on its border without reacting. A problem that
Strana's source is well aware of.
J.Swift#38
Nice riff on 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'!
Excellent take on the situation as it has unfolded. I agree with your observations re: a
change in tone coming Russia and China in regard to their criticizms of the USA. It's likely
that they have indeed run the numbers on both how much damage they can absorb and what their
counter move would be as compare to the long drawn out decline that seems to be atking
forever.
The line (or really one of the several) is when the USA get more directly involved and
sustains losses at the hands of Russian forces. Nobody really wants to find out what happens
when the The Darkness behind the might of the Pentagram has a hissy fit. The yapping dog
might just beable to run the numbers itself and see the outcome as being very disadventageous
to itself and it's minions. Who am I kidding, the USA doesn't care a whit about it's
minions....
I believe you are right. A war is unlikely, but with madmen in Washington you never know.
Some of them would like to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian.
But, Russia is moving substantial troops and equipment to the Ukrainian border to deter
the Kiev authorities from invading the Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) and the Luhansk
People's Republic (LNR) - so this is real not a made-up story (it is not what 'normal' troop
movements as the b's article implies). Russia is drawing a red line and it should be seen as
such!
Russia's actions will probably be enough to dissuade Kiev but what have they got to lose?
The Kiev regime is failing, its economy is in freefall, disaster beckons - a glorious
military defeat might be considered preferable to inevitable social and economic
collapse.
Kiev may also have well-founded belief that the US/West will be forced to support them
militarily to keep the secrets of western involvement in the downng of MH17 out of Russian
hands.
Thank you for all the compliments. I am not and will not be angry with librul for more
than one moment, in the past. Same Biden/Trump barbs are tossed daily on a face to face
basis. It has become how Americans are.
Ghostship does make some good points. Not theoretical to me. Here in Chicago FuhrerTag is
still celebrated at many bars. Large group sings of Horst Wessex song occur for a variety of
occasions. When at University of Illinois (70s) there was a sizable contingent of OUN
children in the History Department. They freely Indulged in Sieg Heil and Slava Ukraina to
greet each other publicly. There was also an Ustache contingent who did return to Croatia,
not to fight but to govern. Shall we say that these groups were insane. Some did go to
military careers.Some did go to State Department. Some did go to think tanks. If the subject
is Russia clinical insanity is not a career impediment in America.
For two days I owned the Rainbow, Bugsy Siegel's old joint 1900 N. Damen. . That was
Ukrainian Village. My money was refunded. The alternative was death. Yes, they put guns in my
face. Yes, they could do that. No, I do not like these people.
None of us predicts future with any accuracy. Will keep pointing out that downsides for
Russia will vanish with victory. They have a lot of choices in how they could construct that
victory. Every choice US/NATO has available is nothing but a defeat.
It is a very important reminder as to how insane and mindless the neo con hatred is of
Russia and Putin. It is indeed alarming that this rabid hatred controls the neo cons and what
passes for us foreign policy. How can on expect rational policy when the people in charge are
completely irrational.
If nothing else, just note the quote in the article from Hudson-it is beyond alarming as
to the description by hudson of the mindless and controlling irrationality of the neo cons in
the dimo biden admin!
I watched a video by Alexander Mercouris China Warns Ukraine on Crimea Ties which
shows how coordinated this present crisis may be, as Washington may be maneuvering its
Ukrainian proxy into nationalizing a corporation there that manufactures a variety of turbine
engines, built to power both warships and aircraft. Zelensky is applying pressure on both
China and Russia at once. The Russians have overcome some manufacturing problems and have had
to build up their own stocks of turbines for military use. Responding to Zelensky's seizure
of their assets and investments in Ukraine, the Chinese have sent an economic mission that
involves serious investments in Crimea .
A coordinated threat to the culturally Russian Donbas and Lugansk region and the
nationalizing of Chinese assets will place China and Russia again on the same path in their
diplomatic response. It would not be a surprise if China officially recognizes Crimea as part
of the Russian Federation.
To be fair, the neocon's feel that way about everyone - they embrace the role of paranoid
imperialist because that's a relatively accessible way to get funded in the DC policy world.
The striking thing is the hubris - they're just going to fight everyone all at the same time
and it will somehow be okay in the end, no cost to them.
Russia doesn't need "troops" to defend Donetz and Luhansk; Russian can destroy Ukrainian
forces using stand-off weapons and then DNR and LNR forces can easily cope with what remains.
Russian doesn't need forces to "occupy" Donetz and Luhansk because these areas will remain
under the control of the republics. What Russia needs "troops" for is to advance and capture
Kiev and this is what Russia's troop deployments threaten. If the conflict starts in Ukraine
then Russia will demonstrate its ability to do whatever it wants in all areas of Ukraine;
then Russia will withdraw and leave what is left for the West/EU and US to deal with.
Rationally, nothing will happen because Kiev will be deterred. But, many elements in the
Kiev regime may desire war because they believe the West will (because they "have to")
support them (or, as I already said, glorious defeat may seem preferable to the slow-burn
collapse of their regime). The US/West may encourage Kiev because they are posturing for war
and the plandemic is envisaged as the best time for such an event (I feel the likelihood of
this is underestimated), or compelling a demonstration of Russian "aggression" may have
overriding propaganda value (regardless of the outcome for the Kiev regime) for their own
populations (everyone can really hate on Russia for the next 10 years - hate is a great
unifier).
All of this is to be expected after weeks and weeks of UAF buildup along the Donbass
border. In fact, they've been shelling villages in the Donbass for some time now since they
re-instigated aggression in February. Even today they were shelling the infamous Donetsk
airport. On top of that you've got US aerial vehicles flying around the Black Sea right
underneath Crimea and next to Krasnodar. Kiev's posturing has signaled their supposed
willingness to attack the Donbass and attempt to retake Crimea, so Russia's reaction to
protect Russian citizens would be entirely reasonable.
The defense ministers of Ukraine and the United States held their second conversation in a
month and a half on the situation in Donbass. According to Andriy Taran, the Americans
promised Kiev "support measures" in the event of a direct military conflict between Ukraine
and Russia.
The US will not come to the aid of Ukraine. That is a pipe dream, pun intended.
@JohninMK et al:
On the surface this seems to be a continuation of the provocation game, which has been the
tactic since the beginning. The Ukies are definitely upping the ante by threatening Crimea. I
can only assume that they are deep into thinking wishfully that the USA will "come to rescue"
when they poke the bear. But in both their cases I have to wonder: with WHAT? The Ukies dont
have an effective army as demonstrated by mass defection and surrender last bout. Other than
"punishment battallions" there do not seem to be many troops willing to fight. As for the
USA, they are not shock troops, they are an occupation force. So then is it to be some sort
aerial ballet of stand-off weapons over the skies of the Donbass??
As stated above, the Western MSM is going to shriek like flock of terrified Karens no
matter what Russia does so they may as well earn it. My mind wanders over the demonstration
of the Iskander in Syria most recently. Ten or so of those simultaneously in the right places
would bring a Ukrops offensive to sudden halt if there were the will to do so.....
Zelensky is making de-escalation noises. Bit late for that. Should this all ratchet down
it will be the end of Zelensky. Bear in mind he is there only because there is no one else.
As an actor and a comedian he has been impersonating a President. He did that for the sitcom
cameras and then he did it in real life.
It will also be the last time Ukraine ever pretends to field an army. Conscripts will make
their way home somehow, they won't be played again. Heavy equipment and ammo will be
auctioned off cheap to any who can arrange transport. Transport will be questionable, arms
will be sold very cheap.
Ukraine army is heavily larded with mercs and Wahabi jihadis from all over the planet.
Idiots could still start something big even if the "leadership" calls it off. Shelling has
been happening all day up and down the line. Artillery is mostly mercs. Russia is holding
fire so far, one shell chances to fall on a concentration of Russian troops and it is on.
Poles and other idiots could also blow this up. Way too many moving pieces and no one in
charge, either in Kiev or Washington.
If this excitement just ends Ukraine will go from a comic opera government to no
government at all. Russia will move in for humanitarian reasons. Western Ukraine will die or
flood to Europe.
I see we are back to the "fog of war".
There has been artillery/mortar fire around Horlivka and elsewhere. (50 shells) These
mortar attacks were conducted by the 58th motorised rifle brigade of the Armed Forces of
Ukraine from the areas of Avdeevka and Pervomaisky.
A Global Hawk is presumed to have flown over both Donetsk and Luhansk - various altitudes to
test the Russian radars. This is the same type that was shot down by Iran. Maybe the US wants
to order a few more replacements?
One vid that is supposed to show a train full of Tor systems of the 56 airborne has already
been debunked as filmed a long way away on the other side of Russia, (The 56th do not have
Tors)
It is clear that there is a definite push to provoke a Russian reaction. The threats about
Crimea mean that any movement in that area will be taken seriously, as "several" high ranking
Russian Generals have arrived there. Russian Generals lead from the front, not the back as do
the UK or US versions. (see Syria)
It is the details that are showing that this will escalate (Burning houses and villages)
and civilians in bunkers. I was going to show you the picture of an old man still in the
firing area, because he has nowhere else to go . Someday the human cost must be
counted.
***
Interesting tie ups with the BRI and Afghanistan from Karlof1's post @70. One mention of a
canal between the Sea of Azof and the Caspian, via Russsia. The "anything but Suez"
canal?
More than that, I realised that the Saudi Arabian NOEM (Straight Line road) across the
Gulf of Aqaba to Sharm el-Sheik, will eventually give it access to the Med via Egypt and
Africa, without going through Israel. (Or Lebanon, Syria or Turkey)
Syria is in a mess because of lack of fuel. Their stolen fuel is/was bought by Israel
cheaply. Are you sure that the EverGiven WAS an accident?
*****
Biden has Zelenskys back - if he is thinking of his back pocket there is nothing left in
it.
I'm sure oldhippie means that if the Ukies are subservient enough to the US to actually
attack, this will almost certainly be reminiscent of Georgia (rather than just some cruise
missile strikes, as some had speculated). The buildup means Russia is prepared to sweep into
the Ukraine, and probably make a special point of killing as many Nazi battalions as
possible, along with any Ukie troops who don't surrender quickly enough. I don't see them
entering Kiev, just like they didn't try to take Tblisi, but I imagine they will try to take
most of the pro-Russian territory in the East and possibly even South, until Kiev begs for a
cease-fire (just like last time), but this time the conditions of cease fire will likely be
much more strongly enforced, and then I would imagine Russia will try to establish some
assemblage of peace-keeping troops from countries they can trust (maybe Shanghi Coalition?)
so that they can withdraw their troops as soon as possible, for political reasons. Not that
it will help, but then again, I think Russia sees they'll be damned if they do, damned if
they don't, so they might as well do it. But they damn sure don't want to take ownership of
the Ukraine, just like they didn't want to own Georgia.
A fair and balanced analysis, as far as it goes.
We must remember the Stavka is in charge....
What makes the most sense to them??? Where should the cease fire line be??? The best place
to put it is the midline of the Denieper River. It is a natural boundary. It is wide enough
so anything less than 155 mm artillery can't reach across. It resolves permanently water
supply to Crimea.
NATO will use this action to censure, villify, and sanction Russia. She might as well get
something for that.
Will this happen?? Last year, I'd say no.... but now.... anything goes...
I thought Biden would not start a war until next year to save the 2022 mid-term elections. My
speculation is that Merkel is standing firm on Nord Stream 2 so the Biden administration is
going to use the Ukrainians to start up a war against Russia to physically shut down the
construction of the pipeline and introduce sanctions like against SWIFT, Aeroflot, etc.
During a meeting with Defense Minister of Ukraine Andriy Taran and the leadership of the
Armed Forces of Ukraine, the defense attaches of the United States, Canada and the United
Kingdom assured Ukraine of the support in defending its sovereignty and territorial
integrity. "US, Canada's, and UK Defense Attaches met with Minister of Defense [of Ukraine]
Taran, Deputy Minister Petrenko, Deputy Minister Polishchuk, Joint Forces Commander
Lieutenant General Naiev, and Colonel Budanov," the U.S. Embassy posted on Twitter. The
Embassy assured Ukraine of support in defending its sovereignty and territorial integrity:
"We stand with Ukraine as it defends its sovereignty and territorial integrity and are
watching the situation in Ukraine closely."
The story is number one or two all over the place (The Hill, Politico, Reuters, The
Washington Times,...).
No mention of Ukraine except perhaps in minor side stories.
"Biden holds first call with Ukrainian president amid Russian buildup"
By NATASHA BERTRAND and LARA SELIGMAN
04/02/2021 09:39 AM EDT
Updated: 04/02/2021 11:24 AM EDT
President Joe Biden and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky spoke on Friday morning
for the first time since Biden took office, amid reports of a Russian military buildup in
eastern Ukraine that has alarmed U.S. and Ukrainian officials.
The leaders spoke for 30 to 40 minutes, according to a person with knowledge of the
call. A White House readout of the conversation said Biden "reaffirmed the United States'
unwavering support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity in the face of
Russia's ongoing aggression in the Donbas and Crimea."
When Biden called Russian President a soulless "killer" on
ABC News, Putin responded with the most deft bit of diplomacy I've seen in quite a while, openly challenging Fungal Joe to a
publicly broadcast debate of substantive issues, which Biden, of course, declined.
There can be no question now that
all the disparate interests within
The
Davos Crowd
are aligned at this point
(see
this
month's Newsletter
for more discussion on this).
All guns point at Russia.
Putin tried to defuse the situation with an offer that was at once an epic troll of Biden,
who is clearly no match for his Russian counterpart cognitively, and a warning to Americans that this situation has gotten far more
dangerous than they are being told.
And sometimes you win simply by taking the high road. Make no mistake the fact that Putin went here this early in Biden's presidency
is a bad sign. It tells us things are horrific between the world's most prominent nuclear powers and that there's been zero
diplomatic effort put forth by the Biden administration since the election.
The problem is rapidly becoming that indiscriminate use of all weapons all the time --
diplomatic, economic, military, propaganda -- creates a kind of dopamine addiction.
In order to keep the public interest in
the threat they have to keep raising the stakes and the rhetoric to eventually absurd levels.
As I like to say all the time, it's the first rule of screenwriting :
Be forever raising the
stakes lest the audience gets bored.
But there comes a point where people begin to realize that they are being asked to back a war where the existential threat to the
elite's power is transferred onto them. Remember folks, government's fight and spend billions propagandizing you into believing
their wars are for your own good.
It's rarely the case, if ever. More often than not the war being ginned up in the media and by government officials is one that
either feathers their own nest directly, supports the goals of other powerful folks indirectly, or covers up past corruption.
The brewing conflict in
Ukraine is all of these and more.
The project to add Ukraine to NATO and the EU is a long-held dream of neocons
like Victoria Nuland and neoliberals like Biden. It's an important cog in the World Economic Forum's desire to expand the EU to both
encircle Russia thereby disrupting any dreams of Eurasian integration which could form a bulwark against their brave new world.
What's got Biden's Depends in a bunch is that he's neck-deep in the corruption in Ukraine. In
Obama's own words, Ukraine is Joe's project. And Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky is not fully subsumed into the morass of
Biden's (and the rest of the usual suspects') problems.
Putin's deft and cordial handling of Biden's indiscriminate use of language was masterful here. Biden's initial remarks are, at
best, him trying to hold onto the Amy Poehler demographic (see reruns of Parks and Recreation for her slavish obsession with him as
Vice-President) as a vibrant, macho man, while he implements every bad idea that that same demographic rejected from all the other
Democrats during primary season.
But we can all see he's nothing of the sort. He's a barely coherent, rapidly fading bully with no discernible achievements in life
other than being available to be a placeholder for someone else's plans.
So, it was never a question as to whether Biden would ever talk to Putin under those
conditions. They can't even get him to talk with reporters for real, having to green screen him into backgrounds to make it look
like he's out in the world, doing stuff.
And don't get me started on that embarrassment of a press conference held the other day. Running for re-election in 2024? This guy's
not going to be alive in 2024. Then again, since he didn't run in 2020, what does it actually matter?
Elections are just Hollywood productions anymore anyway.
Biden's counter is to now invite Putin and Chinese Premier Xi Jinping the big Climate Summit
in late April
where the WEF controls the agenda and Biden's anti-diplomatic corps led by the completely over-matched
Secretary of State Antony Blinken can further embarrass the U.S. on the world stage.
Since both Putin and Xi told the WEF to go scratch on both Climate Change, Agenda 2030 and,
most
notably from Putin, the Fourth Industrial Revolution
, I don't see how this summit ends any better than virtual Davos did earlier
this year.
In fact, with Biden's approach to both China and Russia so far, this summit is shaping up to be a colossal waste of time while also
threatening everyone the world over with what they can expect policy-wise from the West until someone finally puts these insane
people out of our misery.
With each day that passes the U.K., for example, under tyrant Boris Johnson sinks further into a complete totalitarian nightmare
(see
here
,
here
,
here
,
and
here
from the last 24 hours) thanks to COVID-19, while ramping up the anti-Russian rhetoric to eleven.
But, back to Ukraine, because it's tied directly to all this climate change nonsense. Putin
understands as well that Biden will allow every escalation in Ukraine because he's shackled by it and they need to complete the job
started with the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovich in 2014.
That means we'll see something far worse than Victoria Nuland's latest Cookie Campaign for freedom. We're going to see a war for
the Donbass soon, likely right after Orthodox Easter and the end of the snow melt.
Putin tried to go directly to the people to end this destructive spiral to the bottom, because he knows where this ends.
It will be a confrontation that one side will have to commit to completely or allow it's bluff to be called. The game Biden's
handlers have played to this point has been a massive escalation of rhetoric while continually moving real pieces into position for
a real conflict. I just don't see cooler heads prevailing here because there is no upside for the U.S., the EU and the WEF if China
and Russia stand their ground and Biden et.al. back down.
Russia has to be
destroyed or subjugated if the Great Reset is to happen and Europe is to remain a relevant global player.
That
means control of the Black Sea, which means taking back Crimea. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov recently reiterated publicly
that Russia has had zero diplomatic contact with the European Union since the 2014 vote by Crimea to rejoin Russia.
Diplomacy is nearly over between the major powers. Biden's simple refusal to talk to Putin
publicly is a major event.
In the end everything we've lived through since COVID-19 began boils down to the need to destroy the global economy built on oil and
coal, otherwise all major energy production stays under Eurasian control as it strengthens not Atlanticist as it peaks in global
power and their grand dreams wither.
Time is getting short for this to happen. Public opposition to this program is rising. It happens now or not at all.
If there is a war in the Donbass this spring it won't be a happy ending which extends U.S.
primacy into the future but the moment when we realized its acceleration into irrelevancy.
In both the current major conflicts between Russia and the US Psychopaths In Charge, Russia holds the moral high
ground. In Ukraine the US promoted, financed, helped organize, and encouraged the overthrow of a democratically
elected government. When the citizens of Crimea exercised their natural right of self determination and voted to
return to being a part of Russia, the US called it a coup. In Syria, the US has illegally invaded a sovereign nation
without that nation's sovereign government's permission or request. Russia got both. Not only does Russia hold the
moral high ground, but the legal high ground as well.
vic and blood
PREMIUM
3 hours ago
Well
stated.
The
role reversal is complete. We are now the Evil Empire.
gmrpeabody
1 hour ago
" . In
Ukraine the US promoted, financed, helped organize, and encouraged the overthrow of a democratically elected
government. "
Marine
General Smedley Butler knew his forces were being used back in the thirties to enforce American bankster
interests in central and South America.
eyewillcomply
1 hour ago
(Edited)
"We are now the Evil Empire."
As
soon as we allowed the cousins of the same Bolsheviks who made Russia into a communist basket case to
control our currency and thus, government, we became an "Evil Empire". It has been a slow process and hard
to recognize early on. The founding principles of the United States are moral and admirable. What we have
morphed into at the behest of this satanic cabal is the exact opposite of that ethos.
chunga
3 hours ago
Many
people hate the US and have many very valid reasons to fight and kill all of us.
BlindMonkey
2 hours ago
(Edited)
A
large swath of Americans just want to live life as a people. They harbor no ill will to other people's,
we just want our space in the world respected. Of these, they also have a beef with the insane people
that have got us to this point.
jeff montanye
2 hours ago
the u.s. government has not been mine since vietnam.
dead hobo
1 hour ago
(Edited)
Funny,
but look at the big picture. How could all these foreign horrors be contemplated if only a few people voted
for Biden? Agree the election was stolen, but it still took a massive number of Libtards and Woketards to
provide enough actual votes to make the fake votes count.
We are
seeing what happens when a massive amount of Accumulated Stupid runs daily life in the US. No amount of talk
will make a difference and most people don't read. Combined, this makes them impervious to common sense.
Things will get worse, then much worse, before they get better. This is a big deal. Democrats are going all
in at 110% effort because they know they will fail and and never get another chance if they don't take over
now. Expect outrageous takeovers followed by more outrageous takeovers. We haven't seen anything yet. Expect
to be Amazed.
chunga
2 hours ago
I'm
afraid those people will not be exempt from the harmful, malicious actions of the US govt and do not deserve
to be. I put myself in this category.
Sandmann
23 minutes ago
Most
Americans are great and generous people but so were most people in the Soviet Union
Lordflin
2 hours ago
You
don't seriously believe we would sit on the sidelines of such a conflict...
When
was the last time that happened...?
Deep
State wants war... and they are now firmly in charge in a capital protected by armed troops and razor
wire...
JPHR
3 hours ago
(Edited)
remove
link
This
article seems mistaken in treating Biden as somehow being in charge nor is this Harris.
The
most concerning aspect of this fake presidency is that non-elected and not accountable people behind the
scenes are running this farce.
The US
always selects weak corrupt leaders as front men for their color revolutions abroad and it should not be a
surprise that the color revolution at home now follows exactly that very same pattern.
Carlin was RIGHT
2 hours ago
(Edited)
It is
not just the author of this article that is mistaken, it is also 95% of the murican public. What you see on
your tee veee and read in media is 100% pure theatre - all agenda driven, of course.
Dumfknation will begrudgingly go along with ANYTHING tptb dictates - that has been proven beyond any doubt
over the last year. So expect nothing but misery and quite possibly death for the foreseeable future,
because (((they))) most certainly have NO CONCERN WHATSOEVER for you happiness and prosperity, and only seek
to make the world a better place for (((them))).
Sandmann
4 hours ago
Much
of the Hitler-Stalin War was fought in Ukraine. Ukraine was always the centre for Soviet weapons production
to ensure The West stayed away.
Brzezinski set up a cat's paw which he hoped would ensnare Russia but it will destroy USA. The West kept
Bandera groups funded and armed in Ukraine into 1950s. Poland wants to seize Gailicia. The simple fact is
Ukrainians are emigrating for work to Poland and Turkey and Western Europe if they can get forged papers.
Ukraine is dead - US wants to force West Europeans to pay transport levies to Ukraine for Russian gas
instead of North Stream so Europeans fund Ukraine corruption and backfunding to US Democrats.
Russia
will fight when it is ready as will China. Seems stupid to risk Atlanta or Dallas or LA or Chicago for Kiev
Craven Moorehead
3 hours ago
The
Soviet Union economically collapsed trying to match NATO military strength, too much of their resources and
productivity were directed to military, the West effectively outspent them.
Now
the tables have turned, The US may be on the road to the same fate, and the current government of morons may
just bring it about
BlindMonkey
2 hours ago
remove
link
The Ukraine war might be kept under wraps solely because Russia has clearly signaled they will enter it. An
attack is a suicide play for Ukraine. I don't expect this to stop the warhawks from trying but Zelensky
must know this is a death trap for him.
If this kicks off, expect Poland to be sacrificed to try to
take Kaliningrad in retribution.
SwmngwShrks
1 hour ago
remove
link
I
remember being in school in 2014, in a UN class specifically, learning about how the US backed coup in the
Ukraine led to them wanting to join the EU. However, as part of the treaty during the dissolution of the
USSR, if any of the barrier states went to join the EU, Russia would annex Crimea, as its only warm-water
port.
This
is what happened, and what was executed, however it was propagandized here in the US that Russia had
"invaded" Crimea. It explains why reporters on scene found the locals welcoming the Russians.
The
thing is, I remember so explicitly finding this on the web, because I was surprised it was true. I read the
actual treaty, and can no longer find it online, anywhere. Sigh, down the memory hole, thanks Brave New
World.
Savvy
24 minutes ago
It's hard to believe the Americans could be so short sighted, but Ukraine was 'liberated' to control
Russia's access to the EU market. Pretty stupid if so because that's when construction on NS2 began and
Ukraine is a US quagmire now. Another shining example of US intervenyionism.
SoDamnMad
2 hours ago
remove
link
Search
for the "March of the Immortal Regiment" on Youtube and understand that if you attack either the Crimea or
the Donbass you will fight seasoned soldiers as well as civilians ready to smash your face in with a
shovel. Unlike the US woke crowd those that chose Russia are not willing to lay down for the corrupt
private Nazi militias of Ukraine. The shipment of up-armored humvess are worthless in this fight. Half the
stuff will be stolen and wind up on the black market. No more mister nice guy. "Remember, you asked for
it."
deep-state-retired
3 hours ago
remove
link
With
the successful Biden Coup and full media / tech blackout of election fraud the Globalists are ready to take
on one of the last few nation states. They think like Napoleon and Hitler just kick in the door and the
house will collapse. We will see.
de tocqueville's ghost
1 hour ago
(Edited)
the
industrialized military complex and deep state stole our vote and election...they need war to survive. Biden
was always their "boy"...he voted yay for every war in the last 42 years. They had to get rid of Trump...he
wasn't starting any wars.
We knew Biden would start beating the war drums soon after being in the WH, and he is.
JackOliver5
3 hours ago
(Edited)
Luongo
is not too sharp - THIS is about the energy future - NATURAL GAS !
So was
the deal between Iran and China today !
Russia
already has over over 1000 CNG service stations - Iran will provide CNG pipelines to China - the Rothschilds
will have NO place in this NEW world !
THAT
is why we are seeing what we are seeing NOW !
Time
will prove that I am right !
Five_Black_Eyes_Intel_Agency
4 hours ago
(Edited)
The
psychopathic cabal loves creating frozen conflicts that they can "switch on" - such as the one in Ukraine.
The only problem is that they always keep choosing losers as their friends.
The
CIA and MI6 are working hard on "switching on" the Ukraine conflict, because peddling conflict is all they
know. Russia will wipe the floor with them.
The
world is waking up fast to the US-UK-israeli racket of depravity. The world except those pitiful vassals
still stuck in the honeymoon phase with their oppressors like the EU.
Propaganda Ripper
2 hours ago
(Edited)
At
this point, if you are politically correct, you cheer for World War 3. What could be more normal in a world
gone mad ?
US Banana Republic
2 hours ago
(Edited)
remove
link
Russia
AND China need to make sure the US has skin in this game.
When I
was IN Ukraine recently for three months a friend asked when the continental US was last involved in a real
war. It was, of course, the US Civil War and that ended in 1865. The US is far removed from the people it
disturbs and massacres. We have no problem singing how proud we are to be Americans because we are situated
in a place that we can do anything to anybody and they can't touch us. That needs to end.
I
don't know exactly how but Russia and China need to make the US pay some consequences for this ********
aggression.
Oldwood
2 hours ago
When you say "US", exactly WHO are you referring?
When you say "Chinese" who are you referring.
Most people of this planet are dominated by their leadership.
otschelnik
3 hours ago
(Edited)
remove
link
Donbass is another example of a successful 'frozen conflict' tactic which the Russians use in ethnicly
charged border conflicts or strategically important territories. North Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transdnestr are
some of the other ones. There's one big chanage in that now a lot of the residents of the Donbass region
have obtained Russian passports under an expedited system, about 400,000 reportedly by the beginning of the
year. Unlike US politicians Putin is not limited by time. This can go on for decades.
Russia
is keeping their options open, and they're willing to withdrawl from Donbass if the region is given autonomy
in Ukraine if they can keep Crimea. This is their favorite option but that's not acceptable for the Ukraine
government. If that doesn't work they can go all the way and annex Donbass too and have the forces to go
all the way to the Dnepr river. Ukraine can't do anything, they're too weak.
The
neocon's running the Biden administration would definitely like to push Ukraine into a hot war with Russia
but our NATO allies are not going to support it.
vasilievich
2 hours ago
If I
may ask, how do you know what Russia is willing to do?
otschelnik
22 minutes ago
Listen to Lavrov and read between the lines.
SoDamnMad
2 hours ago
"if
they can keep Crimea". I stopped reading after that. The road and railway links over the Kerch Strait told
me they were there for good.
BinAnunnaki
1 hour ago
remove
link
Can
Putin annex Donestsk and not expect full western sanctions, esp. on energy or is that a bluff?
Will
Merkel let her people freeze for Eastern Ukraine?
indus creed
30 minutes ago
(Edited)
At the
minimum Russia will take the eastern portion and the entire southern region, thus cutting Ukraine off from
the Black Sea.
MILITARY SITUATION IN EASTERN UKRAINE ON MARCH 28, 2021 (MAP UPDATE)
European Monarchist
1 hour ago
(Edited)
remove
link
Biden
is just like Obama, an unsophisticated and blundering WARMONGER.
El_Puerco
1 hour ago
Who
Are the Secret
Puppet-Masters
Behind
Biden's
War?
European Monarchist
59 minutes ago
(Edited)
Who
knows, but here is my list of likely suspects: the military industrial complex, the CIA, the deep state,
Mossad, hubris, dementia, and demons.
The Vel
1 hour ago
I like
this article. Some wonderful quotes:
'
They can't even get him to
talk with reporters for real, having to green screen him into backgrounds to make it look like he's out in
the world, doing stuff.'
- Check
In the
end everything we've lived through since COVID-19 began boils down to the need to destroy the global economy
built on oil and coal, otherwise all major energy production -
Check
If
there is a war in the Donbass this spring it won't be a happy ending which extends U.S. primacy into the
future but the moment when we realized its acceleration into irrelevancy. -
Check
Mate
That's
the key point of covid - it will take the US Federal Government into irrelevancy along with Dementia Joe.
And all you good folks and me will get to witness this transition to
irrelevance
(if
you don't die off from the vaxx sooner).
BubbaBanjo
1 hour ago
remove
link
Ukraine would be very wise to find a diplomatic way to be a neutral nation and not be a pawn. Russia will
take the pawn if it is played. Nothing will stop that. A pawn needs to know its role in the game.
Aquamaster
10 minutes ago
Always
remember, Biden did not put anyone into his administration based on qualifications. Most were picked for
either their racial, sexual, or LBGTQ... bonafides. The rest were picked as paybacks for financial, and
media/tech support during the campaign. Also, many are Obama retreads, and we know how poorly they performed
in those eight years of the Obama reign of error.
This
is going to be a horrible four years and I have no doubt that OBidens ideologues will blunder us into at
least one war. Hopefully it won't be WW3.
flyonmywall
23 minutes ago
The
idiot-in-chief is being told by his handlers that they can win this without American boots on the ground,
with cannon fodder provided by conscript Ukrainians.
When
the Russians finally unleash their armor divisions, they will cut through their opposition like a hot knife
through butter, while being covered by the Russian aerospace forces.
If
these idiots unleash long range misiles, World War 3 will be just around the corner.
Aquamaster
7 minutes ago
Indeed. We saw this exact thing happen in the ill fated Georgia conflict during the Bush presidency.
QABubba
2 hours ago
remove
link
Putin
is, and has been, playing a waiting game. With each year that passes the West gets weaker and Eurasia gets
stronger. The goal is with deft diplomacy to stretch this period out long enough for the balance of power
to become obvious.
Again, whoever thought that Russia would pay billions in transit fees to Poland and Ukraine for them to turn
around and spend with Lockheed, Ratheon. etc., to buy weapons to point at Russia was an idiot. A first
class idiot. The kind of idiot that will be the death of us.
Tom Green Swedish
2 hours ago
WIth
each year Putin becomes older and weaker. He will age out, and they will fall. I don't like Russia. Who
would?
Victor999
1 hour ago
Lots of people like Russia - all over the world. And lots of people absolutely hate America - all over
the world. How do you explain that? And if you knew anything about Russia, you would understand why you
should fear the day that Putin finally steps down.
blumenthal
2 hours ago
(Edited)
In
contrast to the attempted coup in Turkey, in which Erdogan acted decisively, it was a serious mistake on
Yanukovich's part not to deploy the military in Ukraine. The Russians made a subsequent mistake by not
marching straight into the capital Kiew. Now it will be much more difficult to control the situation in
Ukraine. A further conflict will escalate very quickly, because the Russians have a lot at stake and China
will not hesitate for long.......
Propaganda Ripper
2 hours ago
(Edited)
Yanukovich did not deploy the military in Ukraine because he was threatened with sanctions... The result is
that he almost got himself (and his family) killed. It was a very narrow escape from Kyiv.
BinAnunnaki
2 hours ago
remove
link
Remember this all happened while Putin was concluding a successful Olympics
morefunthanrum
2 minutes ago
Zerohedge and the Republicans are awful sympathetic to trumps buddy putin....why is that?
TRUMP WON
2 minutes ago
Putin
loves his country...
Biden
does not.
Only a
few years difference in their ages... Jesus, what a contrast.
One,
sharp as a tack... the other, a urine-soaked imbecilic pedo clown
rtb61
1 hour ago
The
Ukraine no longer seems willing to self destruct being part of Europe a lie, they should never have shot
down the passenger jet, they will never be forgiven for that.
Right
now the worst thing the USA could do to Russia, dump the Ukraine back on them and force Russia to pay to fix
and and create chaos with regard to the Crimea.
The
Ukraine is a mess and getting worse, it is a booby prize for whom ever gets stuck with it. The Ukraine even
managed to say the stupidest thing they could, when they said the Crimea returned to Russia, really stuck
their foot in there. Should never have said that because yes, it was stolen by a Ukrainian leader of the
Soviet Union and logically at the end of the Soviet Union should have demanded it's return to Russia because
soviet union evil.
The
Ukraine government should have never said, the Crimea returned to Russia because they immediately lost their
case in doing so.
Global Hunter
1 hour ago
remove
link
The
pro-Soros, pro NATO Ukrainians (baby Russians) who are rebelling against their Russian brethren shot the
plane down ya stooge.
fosfor 37
2 hours ago
(Edited)
remove
link
Many
thanks to Biden and Nuland for the Russian Crimea!
Vladymyr Zhirinovsky - The division of Ukraine will take place in the near future
The
flight of Viktor Yanukovych from Kiev turned out to be the most profitable option for Russia. Otherwise, one
would have to spend a lot of money and be left without Crimea.
"Why
didn't Yanukovych stay in Kiev? How would we take Crimea if Yanukovych stayed in Kiev? We would have thrown
an army into Kiev, we would have given a lot of money, Yanukovych would have sat there and continued to rule
Ukraine, and Crimea would have remained Ukrainian and died. Yanukovych played along with us. Now Biden is
playing along with us. Let him continue to help the allegedly Ukrainian army. "
Zhirinovsky presented the ongoing actions as a multi-step combination for the creation of Novorossiya.
"It is
beneficial for us that Biden gave the command through his Ukrainian accomplices to launch an attack on
Donbass. Yes, we will crush this entire army completely, and a movement will begin towards the creation of
Novorossia, the entire South-East of Ukraine, and the North - we will see. Maybe we'll come to an agreement
with the Germans and the Poles, maybe we'll do a little differently there. "
Let it Go
3 hours ago
remove
link
Biden putting more weapons into
the hands of those unmotivated to fight for their corrupt state is merely adding fuel to this fire and doing
more harm than good.
Remember Ukraine is a financially failed state and while we can point to its
potential, its massive oil and gas reserves by all rights should belong to the Ukrainian people. These
reserves do not belong to people like Joe and hunter Biden.
More
on this subject in the article below.
Recall
all the "concern" that Trump might be blackmailed by those who had dirt on him...(Russia)
never
happened
So
what of Biden and Burisma, Ukraine, Hunter, China deals, money wired, ...??
Any
stories that might be told, or withheld, on the Bidens?
Southern_Boy
21 minutes ago
I
believe living anywhere near the DC Swamp will become rather dangerous (it's probably dangerous now because
of BLM/Antifa and the "woke" mobs) once the nuclear ballistic missile exchange starts. Even the big blue
cities and state capitals are probably going to be targets.
The
globalist elites of the Medical-Military Industrial Complex really believe the homeland is invulnerable to
and will never be subjected to a real damaging attack.
Don't
forget the historical wild card is Pakistan, India and Iran with nuclear and biological weapons of mass
destruction.
gzorp
24 minutes ago
(Edited)
After
the nazis bounced Kennedy's brains (and your democracy) off the trunk of his limo on 11/22/63, the Right of
Return side as opposed to Containment side won the argument. There would be no cooperation with the Soviet
Union... Nixon (Dulles/nazi protege) used the ukrainian (Bandera faction) Romainian Iron Guard, Croation
Ustashi etc . to get the ethnic vote for the Republipigs promosing right of return to their countries for
the nazi collaborators given refuge here in the US. Brought into the Republipig party as an official wing of
the party by HW Bush when he was chairman of the Republipig party as the "Ethnic Outreach" wing of the
party. Seen the USSA returning any former nazis to Croatia or Ukraine?...
Kat Daddy
49 minutes ago
(Edited)
If a
plebiscite is called in the Donbass, the people will vote to join the Russian Federation. Any actions taken
by NATO and the Atlanticist interests will appear illegal under international law. So much for promoting
democracy and humanitarian interests. There need not be a war, but I know you're secretly hoping for one.
Several Russia watchers - Patrick
Armstrong , Andrei Martyanov and
Andrei
Raevsky - are musing about a renewed attack by the government of Ukraine on its eastern
Donbass region. The Donbass separated in 2014 after the U.S. driven coup in Kiev installed an
anti-Russian government which then waged a war on its ethnic Russian east.
"I would like to warn the Kiev regime and the hotheads that are serving it or manipulating it
against further de-escalation and attempts to implement a forceful scenario in Donbass,"
[Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova] said, commenting on the statement of
head of the Ukrainian delegation to the Contact Group for settlement in Donbass Leonid
Kravchuk on some "radical steps" of Kiev if Russia refuses to recognize itself as a conflict
side in eastern Ukraine.
...
Zakharova recalled that the Minsk Agreements clearly outline the conflict sides in Donbass as
Kiev, Donetsk and Lugansk. "The unwillingness of Ukrainian negotiators to recognize this fact
and their refusal to find agreements with Donbass is the reason that hinders the
establishment of long-lasting peace in the region," the diplomat noted.
[T]he Constitutional Court of Ukraine (CCU) recently plunged the country into one of its
deepest crises in its 30-year history. Specifically, on October 27, 2020, the Court declared
that the main elements of Ukraine's anti-corruption legislation, adopted between 2014 and
2020, were unconstitutional. In response, President Zelensky introduced legislation calling
for the early termination of all Constitutional Court judges. Later, in December, he
suspended the chairman of the Court for two months.
The result was widespread chaos in Ukraine's political system. Zelensky's actions were of
questionable legality and provoked harsh criticism from all political sides. The
ramifications of the Court's decision include the cancellation of over 100 pending corruption
investigations, a development that potentially could endanger future EU-Ukraine trade and
economic cooperation Ukraine under the 2014 Association Agreement.
After the 2014 Euromaidan coup an 'independent' National Anti-Corruption Bureau (NABU) was
created to oversee the investigation and prosecution of corrupt state officials. The NABU has
since been used by the U.S. embassy to bring criminal cases against those oligarchs it dislikes
and to cover for those it likes. The constitutional court found that NABU is a criminal
investigation agency outside the control of the executive branch which is a contradiction to
the Ukrainian constitution.
The crisis has since escalated:
President Zelensky has now taken several provocative steps, including proposing legislation
that voids the Constitutional Court's anti-corruption rulings and begins the process of
dismissing and replacing those justices who supported that decision. None of these actions
are supported under present-day Ukrainian law. The rhetoric between the president and the
Constitutional Court is also escalating, with Constitutional Court Chairman Tupitskyi warning
that the president's actions threaten the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Calls for
impeachment proceedings are being raised in the Rada, and Zelensky yet again escalated the
crisis on February 3, 2021 by blocking pro-Russian TV channels controlled by Victor
Medvedchuk. The legality of the latter action was even questioned by the EU, who told
Zelensky that while Ukraine possessed the right to protect itself from disinformation, it
still had to comply with international standards and "fundamental rights and freedoms."
The pressure on Zelensky is growing as he tries to navigate the fine line of obeying the
law as written while simultaneously claiming that the very integrity of the country is at
stake. And Zelensky's problems are only mounting, with the Cabinet of Ministers recently
calling for the dismissal of the head of NABU and the IMF delaying the next tranche of
financial support, in part because of Ukraine's failure to implement a comprehensive
anti-corruption program.
A war against the eastern separatist could be a Hail Mary attempt by Zelensky to regain some
national and international support.
But nothing will happen on the frontline without the consent or even encouragement from
Washington DC. The Biden administration is filled with the same delusional people who managed
the 2014 coup in Kiev. They may believe that the NATO training the Ukrainian army received and
the weapons the U.S. delivered are sufficient to defeat the separatist. But the state of the
Ukrainian military is worse than one might think and
the separatist will have Russia's full backing. There is no question who would win in such a
fight.
If the US is not careful it is going to give the Russians another opportunity to show to the
World their military prowess, the flexibility of their Military District system allowing
multi front operation and their unfailing support for an ally. As well as potentially letting
the Russians show to Europe that they have nothing to fear, if they stop at 30 miles or so
and basically go back home. All whilst the US demonstrates the opposite, but then reinforcing
DC may trump the World.
Posted by b on March 13, 2021 at 17:30 UTC | Permalink
If Ukraine is not careful, they could easily lose all their territory up to the Dnieper
River. With Russian support the separatists could launch offensives and gain massive
territory west. If pro-Russian separatists managed to capture that much territory, that would
solve alot of problems for Russia.
1. A land bridge to Crimea.
2. No more water/power distribution problems to Crimea.
3. Less chances for the ongoing sabotage efforts against Crimea from the northern border.
4. Permanent exclusion of Ukraine from NATO unless Ukraine simply gives up and recognizes all
the lost as sovereign independent republics. A win/win for Russia.
"A war against the eastern separatist could be a Hail Mary attempt by Zelensky to regain
some national and international support." It would be an odd way to 'regain national
support', as he was elected on precisely the opposite platform, the peace platform.
Meh. Whatever the calculations - to suppress pro-peace opponents and compete against the
pro-war parties for their electorate? - it seems unlikely to succeed. A case of totally
fucked up attempt at populism, methinks.
"Just a few weeks ago I wrote a column entitled "The Ukraine's Many Ticking Time Bombs" in
which I listed a number of developments presenting a major threat to the Ukraine and, in
fact, to all the countries of the region. In this short time the situation has deteriorated
rather dramatically. I will therefore begin with a short recap of what is happening.
First, the Ukrainian government and parliament have, for all practical purposes, declared
the Minsk Agreements as dead. Truth be told, these agreements were stillborn, but as long as
everybody pretended that there was still a chance for some kind of negotiated solution, they
served as a "war retardant". Now that this retardant has been removed, the situation becomes
far more explosive than before.
Second, it is pretty obvious that the "Biden" administration is a who's who of all the
worst russophobes of the Obama era: Nuland, Psaki, and the rest of them are openly saying
that they want to increase the confrontation with Russia. Even the newcomers, say like Ned
Price, are clearly rabid russophobes. The folks in Kiev immediately understood that their bad
old masters were back in the White House and they are now also adapting their language to
this new (well, not really) reality.
Finally, and most ominously, there are clear signs that the Ukrainian military is moving
heavy forces towards the line of contact. Here is an example of a video taken in the city of
Mariupol:
Besides tanks, there are many reports of other heavy military equipment, including MLRS
and tactical ballistic missiles, being moved east towards the line of contact. Needless to
say, the Russian General Staff is tracking all these movements very carefully, as are the
intelligence services of the LDNR."
Because the establishment was successful at installing one of their own into the White
House. In fact, the empire's need to secure total victory in Ukraine was part and parcel of
why Biden had to "win" regardless of how blatant the scamming of the election ended up
being.
Not only will the wars in Ukraine and Syria heat up to a boil again, but we will begin to
see terrorist attacks in western China start up once more after several year hiatus. We all
knew that this is what would come of a Biden win.
Ukraine still has a flotilla of functioning nuclear power plants. The Zaporozhye complex is
the largest in Europe by far. Anything goes wrong and Chernobyl comes back, in spades. So
what if we have a little war and Russia stops at Donbass, the rump of Ukraine is in chaos?
An atomic bomb requires 3 kilos of fissile material. A reactor will have tons. Hundreds of
tons of highly radioactive spent fuel. There is a lot to be said for stability. Lots of
trouble with high stakes poker.
I agree, and further to your points, I suspect Russians are engaged in a long term project
of re-absorbing Ukraine minus the Catholic oblasts. The tactic is intermittent episodes of
limited war, in response to a Ukrainian provocation, real or manufactured, or imagined -
followed by the loss of more territory by Ukraine.
The most interesting thing about this story is ... Myanmar.
Since the coup in that country began the Fake News (most MSM news) has given Myanmar
saturation coverage. EVERY "news" broadcast in Oz AND the so-called International News has
led with some tosh about Myanmar. It's an effing rowdy riot for Christ's sake. Guess how
surprised I wouldn't be to hear that MI6 & CIA are behind Myanmar? It's a Boring, same
every day, story and it's going nowhere.
Imo, Myanmar was always cover for prep for something more nefarious elsewhere. And
anything with shooting involved would be MORE nefarious than Myanmar. Now the real stories
are seeping out.
I hope they start with Ukraine. Putin is an asshole. But he's my kind of asshole and certain
people, who don't listen, are going to wish they hadn't been born. And when VVP has finished
with Ukraine, some of them may as well not have been born.
What ever I read I never hear the views of the people of Ukraine - the country is at risk of
being broken up by the actions of all governments since independence. I bet the Hungarians
and Poland are watching closely as they also have interests in Ukraine.
You people need to get your stories straight. If Biden is so senile, then manipulating him
slows down the full-court press and makes all policies erratic, the product of the last
person to whisper in the ear. (Which is why Dr. Jill would be Edith Wilson and Nancy Reagan.)
Plus, saving the zombie corps are higher on his agenda. Most of all of course, the theory
that Biden has already ordered the MSM to bury the bodies in Ukraine means he has zero need
to do favors for anyone there. (There is zero evidence Hunter was selling real favors,
instead of scamming crooked Ukrainians who thought they could buy influence. But it is an
article of faith, a tenet of Trumpian theology, that Ukraine was something, something,
something and therefore Biden is a traitor.)
It is in fact the transitional period that is apt to allow all unresolved disasters to
boil over while no one (not literally) is watching. Only a fool ever thought Ukraine and
Syria could continue indefinitely. (Putin may be that big of a fool, if he ever had an
endgame he's never showed any sign of it.) The economic crisis and the epidemic and the US
elections I think have tended to put people into a holding pattern to see how things develop.
But now, the epidemic is starting to shake out---the end of the beginning is in sight!---and
the world depression is entering a new phase with threatened mass bankruptcies and now is the
time to present the new US administration with a fait accompli.
In Syria, Trump had four years to end things but deliberately committed to stealing the
oil. Putin never had a plan I think to lever out the US and Turkey or even the Kurds, so he
never had a hope of ending the war in Syria. It can't go on forever.
Kharkov province came within a hair of joining Lugansk and Donetsk in rebelling. But it
is the only contiguous territory that can plausibly be joined. Odessa is majority Russian but
it is isolated. Artificially dividing the westernmost provinces from the rest of Ukraine will
not resolve the problem, not even if they were sacrificed to Poland. Poland's appetites
include western Belarus and Kaliningrad and probably parts of Lithuania too. One problem with
re-drawing borders in Europe is German revanchism for Silesia and Prussia. It may not be loud
now, but it's astonishing how fast these ideas come back.
Some updates. There is a battle in the area of #Donetsk airport. The #Ukrainian Armed
Forces
are shelling DPR positions with heavy weapons.
Around 19.30 local time, a series of kicks took place in the direction of the DAP.
I would expect a False Flag to start thing off. (The shelling has been going on for
months, but seems to be more serious this time round.)
The Russians are ready. 6 Divisions said to be on high alert. Structural subdivisions
of electronic warfare (EW) of special forces of Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have
been redeployed to the territory of the #DPR & #LPR
Electronic suppression & electronic protection goes to all points of contact with
#Ukrainian Armed Forces.
The Ukranians started flying Bayraktar TB2 drones (As used against Armenia) (Two drones
"Rece" downed (?unconfirmed) and a US drone seen in the vicinity.)
An Inhabitant of Donbas thinks that this time the Ukrainians will go for city centers.
(Thinking about the mess they made by going through the rural areas and finishing in
"cauldrons") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iixZn9r8z8
(26 minutes)
Turkey's deputy foreign minister [annexation of Crimea]: "The situation in Crimea
continues to threaten regional security." "We adopt a clear, coherent policy. We strongly
support the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. We don't recognize illegal
annexation."
The Ukes have slightly more then 100'000 men and the Donbas has about 30'000.
There are three (?) Nato force ships in Odessa. (Minesweepers, if my memory is correct -
older report) The US destroyers have left. But. The US has a carrier in the Med, and the
Charles de Gaulle (carrier) is also around.
I wonder who is pulling Ukrainian President Zelensky's strings as his actions as described
by B in his post don't match what the fellow has been doing (basically faffing about and
trying to please everybody since he was elected in 2019) up to now. There must be several
puppetmasters pulling him this way and that: the CIA and SBU certainly, the US State Dept
certainly, and Zelensky must also be feeling some heat now Uncle Creepy Joe and son Hunter
over Hunters past involvement with Burisma Holdings.
Biden does not have any policies. At this point, it should be clear that the term
"Biden" be used to designate the consortium of neocon and neoliberal technocrats, both
veterans from the Obama-admin and neophytes who are operating in place of a failing
POTUS.
Biden is a whimpering, pathetic character who should be left alone to handle his fleeting
mind in dignity. But we all know this is not what he truly deserves.
They would not allow him to do this, however, and he was instrumental in being the most
milktoast and boilerplate candidate where only pure hatred of the other (deplorables) would
suffice to win 2020.
Biden was essential to win. Now he is the equivalent of a 6' ft+ doorstop or
paperweight.
thanks b... and many good insights from the posters starting @ 1 and moving down, excepting
little stevies comment on putin.. can't have everything...
@ Gerhard | Mar 13 2021 18:22 utc | 9.. uranus is on an 84 year cycle... thanks for the
data..
@ 23 jen... i was wondering about that myself... who is pulling zelenskys strings?? if
biden can get rid of the chief prosecutor as vp to help his son out, i suspect he can do a
wee bit more now as president... i don't think he is that bright though, and others behind
the scene are pulling the strings here...
@22 stonebird - I watched the linked video. The Texan said that the Ukrainians bought winter
fuel from Belarus. Is Lukashenko still playing both sides? How sad. I wouldn't want to be on
a commercial jet flying over Ukrainian territory right now. Especially one manufactured by
Boeing.
Boeing...Boeing...gone.
God help the fine people of the DNR LNR.
RIP Givi, Motorola, Zharakansheko and all the patriots.
I am not sure if "the state of Ukrainian army" is properly illustrated by the link. The
military is almost 300,000 strong and 60,000 is deployed on the Donbass frontline. They
suffer quite a bit of losses, almost all "non-combat". For example, food poisoning, stepping
or driving over mines laid by their colleagues, poisoning with improperly made samogon
(moonshine), few killed when a samogon still exploded (strong alcohol has to be separated
from propane flames, or it explodes, "still" as a noun is a device to distill alcohol), one
soldier was so stoned that walked over the other side -- somehow not stepping on the mines,
other stoned soldiers fight with each other etc. etc.
Somehow this war machine survives on 500 million dollars per month (a half what Polish
military consumes).
"The row was triggered by a 5 March report written by the think tank's two senior members,
Dr. Mathew Burrows and Dr. Emma Ashford, urging the Biden administration to 'avoid a
human-rights-first approach' towards Moscow and warning that new anti-Russia sanctions would
only 'further damage productive relations for the sake of an effort that is unlikely to
succeed.'
"On 9 March, 22 think tank's staffers and fellows issued a tough statement distancing
themselves from Burrows and Ashford and arguing that the report in question "misses the
mark." The statement was signed by individuals known for their longstanding criticism against
Moscow, including Swedish economist Anders Aslund and former US ambassadors John E. Herbst,
Alexander Vershbow, and Daniel Fried."
Each paper is linked at the original. There's much to chew on as the Pragmatists/Realists
make their move. I'll be back later to stick my oar in, although it ought to be clear who're
the sane and insane.
@Jen: "and Zelensky must also be feeling some heat now Uncle Creepy Joe and son Hunter over
Hunters past involvement with Burisma Holdings."
About a year ago (February 6, 2020) the investigating judge of the Pecherskyi district
court of Kyiv city I.V. Lytvynova ordered to open a criminal investigation of "the big guy"
Joe. Case number 62020000000000236.
But as far as I know, Mr Shokin, the former Ukrainian prosecutor general removed by "the
big guy" Joe (Burisma's krysha ), is still there, hasn't had a car accident or
anything like that. So, for "the big guy" Joe (and The Family) Ukraine is still somewhat
dangerous. To be handled with care.
There will be no war between Ukraine and Russia. Russia is playing for time, knowing that the
West is getting weaker and will be in worse position later. NS 2 is also not yet completed.
Why would one want to start a war now if they will be in better position later?
What may happen though, in the case of provocation, is that the rebels may get newer,
fancy weapons, inflicting heavy casualties on the Ukrainian Army.
Same with Taiwan. No one is going to attack it right now. It could still happen, but
around 2050, when China is at peak power, and not today.
@Passer by,
that NS2 is not operational only means that Europe can't afford a long, serious crisis
there.
Russia still could: being able to pump gas to Europe non-stop is hardly a critical factor.
But of course the Putin administration repeated many times that it will not fight Ukraine.
So, yes, it's unlikely.
The approach there appears to be 'wait and see'. "If you wait by the river long enough,
the bodies of your enemies will float by."
"... , and author of several books, including ..."
"... Inside Iran: The Real History and Politics of the Islamic Republic of Iran ..."
"... . @medeabenjamin; Nicolas J. S. Davies, an independent journalist, a researcher with CODEPINK and the author of ..."
"... Blood On Our Hands: the American Invasion and Destruction of Iraq ..."
"... . @NicolasJSDavies; and Marcy Winograd of Progressive Democrats of America served as a 2020 Democratic delegate for Bernie Sanders,and is Coordinator of ..."
Yves here. Biden's nominees have skewed towards the awful, particularly on the foreign
policy front. But his plan to install Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland at State is a standout. For
those of you new to this site and not familiar with Nuland's sorry history, this post gives an
overview of her role in fomenting the coup in Ukraine and in putting relations with Russia on a
Cold War footing. The authors encourage readers to call their Senators and urge them to vote
against her nomination.
And before you get unduly excited by Biden nominating Gary Gensler to the SEC, I would much
rather have seem Gensler at Treasury. Gensler demonstrated at the CFTC that he's effective and
dedicated to combatting abuses by Big Finance. However, his best shot at making the SEC feared
and respected again is to appoint a tough head of enforcement, so keep an eye out for that
pick.
The problem that Gensler will have at the SEC is that it is the only Federal financial
services industry regulator that is subject to Congressional appropriations, rather that living
off its fees and fines (the SEC collects far more than Congress allows it). And Democrats, like
Joe Lieberman, then the Senator from Hedgistan, have been if anything more aggressive than
Republicans in threatening the SEC and in keeping it budget-starved.
I had said to Lambert that if Biden wanted to be Machiavellian, the way to pretend to reward
Elizabeth Warren while actually sandbagging her would be to make her SEC chair. Let's hope that
isn't his logic for appointing Gensler.
Photo Credit: thetruthseeker.co.uk Nuland and Pyatt planning regime change in Kiev
Who is Victoria Nuland? Most Americans have never heard of her because the U.S. corporate
media's foreign policy coverage is a wasteland. Most Americans have no idea that
President-elect Biden's pick for Deputy Secretary of State for Political Affairs is stuck in
the quicksand of 1950s U.S.-Russia Cold War politics and dreams of continued NATO expansion, an
arms race on steroids and further encirclement of Russia.
Nor do they know that from 2003-2005, during the hostile U.S. military occupation of Iraq,
Nuland was a foreign policy advisor to Dick Cheney, the Darth Vader of the Bush
administration.
You can bet, however, that the people of Ukraine have heard of neocon Nuland. Many have even
heard the leaked four-minute audio of her saying "Fuck the EU" during a 2014 phone call with
the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt.
During the infamous call on which Nuland and Pyatt plotted to replace the elected Ukrainian
President Victor Yanukovych, Nuland expressed her not-so-diplomatic disgust with the European
Union for grooming former heavyweight boxer and austerity champ Vitali Klitschko instead of
U.S. puppet and NATO booklicker Artseniy Yatseniuk to replace Russia-friendly Yanukovych.
The "Fuck the EU" call went viral, as an embarrassed State Department, never denying the
call's authenticity, blamed the Russians for tapping the phone, much as the NSA has tapped the
phones of European allies.
Despite outrage from German Chancellor Angela Markel, no one fired Nuland, but her potty
mouth upstaged the more serious story: the U.S. plot to overthrow Ukraine's elected government
and America's responsibility for a civil war that has killed at least 13,000 people and left
Ukraine the poorest
country in Europe.
In the process, Nuland, her husband Robert Kagan, the co-founder of The Project for a New
American Century , and their neocon cronies succeeded in sending U.S.-Russian relations
into a dangerous downward spiral from which they have yet to recover.
Nuland accomplished this from a relatively junior position as Assistant Secretary of State
for European and Eurasian Affairs. How much more trouble could she stir up as the #3 official
at Biden's State Department? We'll find out soon enough, if the Senate confirms her
nomination.
Joe Biden should have learned from Obama's mistakes that appointments like this matter.
In his first
term , Obama allowed his hawkish Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Republican Secretary
of Defense Robert Gates, and military and CIA leaders held over from the Bush administration to
ensure that endless war trumped his message of hope and change.
Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, ended up presiding over indefinite detentions without
charges or trials at Guantanamo Bay; an escalation of drone strikes that killed innocent
civilians; a deepening of the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan; a self-reinforcing
cycle of terrorism and counterterrorism; and disastrous new wars in
Libya and Syria
.
With Clinton out and new personnel in top spots in his second term, Obama began
to take charge of his own foreign policy. He started working directly with Russia's President
Putin to resolve crises in Syria and other hotspots. Putin helped avert an escalation of the
war in Syria in September 2013 by negotiating the removal and destruction of Syria's chemical
weapons stockpiles, and helped Obama negotiate an interim agreement with Iran that led to the
JCPOA nuclear deal.
But the neocons were apoplectic that they failed to convince Obama to order a massive
bombing campaign and escalate his covert,
proxy war in Syria and at the receding prospect of a war with Iran. Fearing their control
of U.S. foreign policy was slipping, the neocons launched a
campaign to brand Obama as "weak" on foreign policy and remind him of their power.
With
editorial help from Nuland, her husband Robert Kagan penned a 2014 New Republic
article entitled "Superpowers Don't Get To Retire," proclaiming that "there is no democratic
superpower waiting in the wings to save the world if this democratic superpower falters." Kagan
called for an even more aggressive foreign policy to exorcise American fears of a multipolar
world it can no longer dominate.
Obama invited Kagan to a private lunch at the White House, and the neocons' muscle-flexing
pressured him to scale back his diplomacy with Russia, even as he quietly pushed ahead on
Iran.
The neocons' coup de grace against Obama's better angels was Nuland's 2014 coup
in debt-ridden Ukraine, a valuable imperial possession for its wealth of natural gas and a
strategic candidate for NATO membership right on Russia's border.
When Ukraine's Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych spurned a U.S.-backed trade agreement with
the European Union in favor of a $15 billion bailout from Russia, the State Department threw a
tantrum.
Hell hath no fury like a superpower scorned.
The EU trade
agreement was to open Ukraine's economy to imports from the EU, but without a reciprocal
opening of EU markets to Ukraine, it was a lopsided deal Yanukovich could not accept. The deal
was approved by the post-coup government, and has only added to Ukraine's economic woes.
The muscle for Nuland's $5 billion coup was Oleh
Tyahnybok's neo-Nazi Svoboda Party and the shadowy new Right Sector militia. During her leaked
phone call, Nuland referred to Tyahnybok as one of the "big three" opposition leaders on the
outside who could help the U.S.-backed Prime Minister Yatsenyuk on the inside. This is the same
Tyanhnybok who once
delivered a speec h applauding Ukrainians for fighting Jews and "other scum" during World
War II.
After protests in Kiev's Euromaidan square turned into battles with police in February 2014,
Yanukovych and the Western-backed opposition
signed an agreement brokered by France, Germany and Poland to form a national unity
government and hold new elections by the end of the year.
But that was not good enough for the neo-Nazis and extreme right-wing forces the U.S. had
helped to unleash. A violent mob led by the Right Sector militia marched on and invaded the
parliament building , a scene no longer difficult for Americans to imagine. Yanukovych and
his members of parliament fled for their lives.
Facing the loss of its most vital strategic naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea, Russia
accepted the overwhelming result (a 97% majority, with an 83% turnout) of a referendum in which
Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which it had been a part of from 1783 to
1954.
The majority Russian-speaking provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine
unilaterally declared independence from Ukraine, triggering a bloody civil war between U.S.-
and Russian-backed forces that still rages in 2021.
U.S.-Russian relations have never recovered, even as U.S. and Russian nuclear arsenals still
pose the greatest single
threat to our existence. Whatever Americans believe about the civil war in Ukraine and
allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election, we must not allow the neocons
and the military-industrial complex they serve to deter Biden from conducting vital diplomacy
with Russia to steer us off our suicidal path toward nuclear war.
Nuland and the neocons, however, remain committed to an ever-more debilitating and dangerous
Cold War with Russia and China to justify a militarist foreign policy and record Pentagon
budgets. In a July 2020 Foreign Affairs article entitled "Pinning Down Putin," Nuland
absurdly
claimed that Russia presents a greater threat to "the liberal world" than the U.S.S.R.
posed during the old Cold War.
Nuland's
narrative rests on an utterly mythical, ahistorical narrative of Russian aggression and
U.S. good intentions. She pretends that Russia's military budget, which is one-tenth of
America's, is evidence of "Russian confrontation and militarization" and calls
on the U.S. and its allies to counter Russia by "maintaining robust defense budgets,
continuing to modernize U.S. and allied nuclear weapons systems, and deploying new conventional
missiles and missile defenses to protect against Russia's new weapons systems "
Nuland also wants to confront Russia with an aggressive NATO. Since her days as U.S.
Ambassador to NATO during President George W. Bush's second term, she has been a supporter of
NATO's expansion all the way up to Russia's border. She calls
for "permanent bases along NATO's eastern border." We have pored over a map of Europe, but
we can't find a country called NATO with any borders at all. Nuland sees Russia's commitment to
defending itself after successive 20th century Western invasions as an intolerable obstacle to
NATO's expansionist ambitions.
Nuland's militaristic worldview represents exactly the folly the U.S. has been pursuing
since the 1990s under the influence of the neocons and "liberal interventionists," which has
resulted in a systematic underinvestment in the American people while escalating tensions with
Russia, China, Iran and other countries.
As Obama learned too late, the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time can, with a
shove in the wrong direction, unleash years of intractable violence, chaos and international
discord. Victoria Nuland would be a ticking time-bomb in Biden's State Department, waiting to
sabotage his better angels much as she undermined Obama's second-term diplomacy.
So let's do Biden and the world a favor. Join World Beyond War , CODEPINK and dozens of other
organizations opposing neocon Nuland's confirmation as a threat to peace and diplomacy. Call
202-224-3121 and tell your Senator to oppose Nuland's installation at the State Department.
Nuland has also been declared persona non grata by Russia, so she would not be able to go
with Biden, were he to visit Moscow. Russian foreign minister Lavrov, actually refused to
shake her hand when she attended a US-Russia meeting with Kerry. She is poison to any attempt
to peaceful relationships.
Yes, I remember that meeting clearly. Can't cite the network, but it covered her closely
– body language only. I wonder where Biden stood on that act of diplomacy given his own
corruption, and also what John Kerry's thinking is about now. John Kerry's stepson was in
cahoots with Hunter Biden. It looked like Kerry brought her along for some rehabilitation and
Lavrov was having none of it. Instead he went directly to the delegation from Ukraine and
they stood in a circle all with their backs turned to Vicky who had no choice but to wander
over to the coffee table and pretend she wasn't totally uncomfortable. Totally excluded. How
can she recover from that?
If there is one thing that Russia hates it is fascists and that is because of the enormous
damage caused by them in WW2. We call those invaders Nazis but the Russians seem to call them
fascists. I sometimes wonder if it is part of their mother's milk this hatred. For people
like Nuland to help topple the government of a large, bordering country like the Ukraine and
install people that were literally fascists was too much for the Russians. These were fascist
of a very low order that had the old 1930s routines down pat, including the torchlight
parades. And there was Nuland, handing out cookies to the rioters, many of whom had been
trained in rioting tactics in Poland and were being paid about $100 a day by the US if I
recall correctly. Of course Nuland was not alone as there was also a Representative from the
EU also handing out cookies. The only equivalent that comes to mind is a violent revolution
in Canada using professional rioters and having diplomatic representatives from the Russian
Federation and China handing out donuts to the rioter. I wonder what Washington would say
about a stunt like that.
Nuland is a disgusting human being. Since she is a right winger, regardless of what party
may be listed on her voter ID, I don't think Bettridge's law applies here at all.
So glad all these 'woke' people put good old Uncle Joe back in office. Wonder how many
realized they were supporting people being burned alive by actual Nazis in doing so?
Thanks for this. Our "learned nothing/forgot nothing" Bourbon restoration will be led by
one of the dimmer Bourbons who couldn't even set up a good grift in Ukraine without boasting
about it and then angrily denying it. Should the press finally, improbably turn on him it
should make for some fun news conferences. But perhaps he'll merely be moving to the White
House basement from his Delaware basement.
CFTC's budgets are also set through congressional authorization and appropriations. Yes,
the CFPB is not subject to Congressional appropriations, but for good reasons. However, all
financial regulation can be overturned by the Congressional Review Act.
As for the article, citation needed. Sort of a laundry heap of questionable material. Make
no mistake, the Russo-Ukrainian War is a real war. Uniformed Russian armored infantry of
331st regiment of the 98th Svirsk airborne division dropped into Ukraine territory on 24
August 2014. From 25 to 27 August, Russian troops in civilian clothing, backed up by an
armored column [not in disguise] took Novoazovsk. This is about Russia not being able to
station 25,000 troops in Crimea as they had under Yanukovych. US troop levels in Europe have
been at their lowest for the last 20 years. The US would like to [nay, needs to] keep it that
way. However, the erosion of territorial integrity is a touchy subject in Europe given the
lasting peace of the post-war period in a place where the wars have a pre-fix like "Hundred
Years".
President Arseniy Yatsenyuk is of Jewish origin so the claims of coordination with Nazi
sympathizers is dubious. Not even going to get the boycotted unconstitutional Crimean
referendum.
As for WW III, Obama's defense department made it a priority to recover all the MANPADS,
such as the Chinese-made FN-6 [via Qatar], Russian-made Strela-2's and Igla-S's [via Libya]
from the FSA without so much as a thank you from the Russian Air Force. [Turkey, on the other
hand, armed the FSA with Stinger's.] It should be noted that the Syrian conflict's death
toll, in just four years, surpassed the 19-year death toll in all the Afghanistan, Pakistan,
and Iraq war theatres combined.
Think about this way: who needs NATO and the EU more to maintain his power structure, Joe
Biden or Vladimir Putin. Isn't it clear Americans don't care, and American business does not
look to compete in Russian anytime soon. The geography is wrong. But Putin must find a way to
engender ethnicities who do not like the Russian Empire, who had been cleansed by Stalin. One
way is to sell energy below cost to the republics and buy in back from political allies in
the form of electricity. Something upon which the EU frowns. [Personally, I did not care for
the way Putin early on systematically and indiscriminately starved Chechen civilians for
years. It was cruel on a level unseen outside of the Rwandan genocide. More importantly, it
was the Russian Federation abdicating its authority by not providing for its own citizens and
not letting NGO's fill the calorie gap. I'd like to think had Putin's admin not been so
wobbly the first few years, he might've let the Red Cross feed the children.]
Russia was never going to permit a US orchestrated coup in Ukraine without resistance. The
idea that Putin needs NATO more than Biden does seems unreasonable.
Talking about "citations", perhaps you could supply the readership of this site with some
credible citations and links for a few of the far fetched claims you're making here. Most of
this comment reads like pro-Ukrainian propaganda.
I heard about Gary Gensler, Samantha Power, and Victoria Nuland, and I immediately
thought, "The good, the bad, and the ugly."
Gensler surprised everyone when he was at the CFTC by doing his job, and doing it well,
and his running the SEC is a good thing.
Samantha Power is an aggressive war monger, and in her position at USAID, she will likely
have her fingers in regime change pie, since USAID is part of the deep state regime change
apparatus..
I've long suspected that NATO has existed since 1991 to allow the US/EU axis to control
Middle-Eastern and African resources. For example, the Rammstein military hospital is where
every Gulf War soldier was airlifted for major treatment and convalescence.
Also, there is a huge international trade in opium. It's grown in Afpak and shipped out in
every direction. I suspect that a fair amount of that flows through Ukraine and Crimea. If
you look at a topo map of Crimea, there's a lot of seashore that could be good "smuggler's
coves". Following this line of argument, Russia grabbing it from Ukraine was a gimme to
Russia's gangsters. This, as well as the "Pipeline Wars", gives Russia a strong reason to
encircle Ukraine.
In today's episode of 'Things that should have come out during the impeachment,'
just-released diplomatic memos reveal that Vice President Joe Biden's office was warned in 2015
that the Ukrainian oligarch who hired his son, Hunter, was deemed corrupt - and that the US
Justice Department had gathered evidence to support that conclusion, according to
Just The News .
"I assume all have the DoJ background on Zlochevsky," wrote former US Ambassador Geoffrey
Pyatt in Kiev in a 2015 letter to Biden's top advisers, referring to Burisma Holdings founder
Mykola Zlochevsky.
"The short unclas version (in non lawyer language) is that US and UK were cooperating on a
case to seize his corrupt assets overseas (which had passed through the US)," Pyatt added,
noting that the asset forfeiture case against the Ukrainian billionaire "fell apart" when
individuals in the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office "acted to thwart the UK case."
Talking points
Pyatt's email also includes responses to several talking points Joe Biden's Washington staff
crafted, should he be questioned about Hunter's role on the board of Burisma .
" Have you asked Hunter to step down from the board? Has he discussed that with you?" the
talking points anticipated being asked.
" I'm not going to discuss private conversations with my family. Hunter is a private
citizen and does independent work ," the memo recommended the vice president answer.
If pressed by a question asking whether Joe Biden thought "Zlochevsky is corrupt," the
talking points suggested the vice president respond, "I'm not going to get into naming names
or accusing individuals." -
Just The News
... ... ...
The memos, released last week by Senate committees investigating Hunter Biden, also reveal
that the US Justice Department was involved in the 2014 asset forfeiture brought against
Zlochevsky in the UK , right as Hunter Biden was hired to sit on the board of Burisma.
Multiple State officials have attested to the awkward appearance of conflict of interest
posed by Hunter's position on the board as the United States led efforts to fight corruption in
Ukraine. In a September, 2015 speech, Pyatt railed against Ukrainian prosecutors for thwarting
the UK asset forfeiture case against Zlochevsky.
Pyatt was recently deposed by investigators for the Senate Finance Committee and the
Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee about the Ukraine controversy.
Though his staff had reported an alleged Burisma bribe and believed the Bidens' conduct in
Ukraine created an apparent conflict, Pyatt said he never felt compelled to raise such
concerns with the vice president.
" So you never gave thought of raising a concern to the Vice President about this board
position his son had? " a Senate investigator asked Pyatt during the deposition back in
September.
"No," the ambassador answered. "He's the Vice President of the United States, and it would
have been wildly out of place for me to raise something like that, especially insofar as it
had zero impact on the work that I was doing ." -
Just The News
Meanwhile, let's not forget that according to evidence from Hunter Biden's laptop published
by the New York Post , Biden didn't just know about his son's business dealings in Ukraine and
elsewhere,
he participated in them .
And Democrats impeached Trump for asking Ukraine to investigate.
2 play_arrow
Max21c 26 minutes ago
Joe Biden Warned In 2015 That Son Hunter's New Employer And Burisma Boss Was Corrupt
This information might have been useful during the impeachment ...
But if the government secret police agencies revealed the truth to the public then how
would Washingtonians have been able to push the impeachment scam as far as they did... and
without the government distracted and bogged down in phony scandals and scams and lies and
distortions then the swamp people might not have been able to pulloff their election fraud
and seize power again. There might not even be as many dead people and as much damage to the
country and its economy without the impeachment getting in the way of the pandemic response
early on.
jammyjo 20 minutes ago remove link
C'mon man! Joe didn't know where his 50% was coming from.
rwe2late 40 minutes ago (Edited)
The Dems did not want a repetition of 2016 when the revelations of Hillary's misconduct
helped thwart her election bid.
Thus, any exposure of Biden's misconduct and corruption was to be smothered and prevented
from thwarting his election bid.
Hardly different than to stop showing the homecoming coffins and civilian casualties so
that the war racket can continue.
Obama is running the show and Joe will resign leaving Barack's honey pot running the
country. The election was fixed by Obama, he always was the smartest guy in the room when it
comes to making his dreams of destroying America come true. Obama only set people in place to
destroy America and now he can blame Uncle Joe and DR of Love Jill.
walküre 1 hour ago
Barrack Hussein Robert Mugabe Obama
NoSoyBoys 59 minutes ago
Barry is too inept and lazy to have thought any of this out.
HANGTHEOWL 58 minutes ago
Obaqama is irrelevant,,,,he is just an ex puppet with no power,,,,,,this world is run by
multi trillionaire Zionist bankers,,,peeon's like Obaqama are just used then disposed
of,,,
walküre 1 hour ago remove link
FFS, Hunter was/is a crack head. His mind is mostly gone. He couldn't run a lemonade
stand, let alone be a board member and understand the ramifications of major business
decisions at foreign companies.
Hunter does not have the wherewithal to be held accountable for any white collar
crimes.
Hunter's name on the documents is to conceal the identity of the real gangster, who is no
other than the head of the family, the Pretender-Elect in Depends Joe Biden.
Sickening to watch how Joe obviously is allowing his own son being fed to the lions.
Man up Joe! He's your son and you're responsible!
Giant Meteor 1 hour ago remove link
The big guy is responsible for his crimes, that is to say, being the head of the crime
family .. His son, being well, past the age of consent, is wholly responsible for his own
crimes ..
nope-1004 1 hour ago (Edited)
Biden = Clinton = Bush = Obama = Holder = Rice = Podesta = corruption
Yes, the earth keeps spinning no matter who "wins" the election.
Armenia, apparently the skies are clear of turkish drones with a little help from Russian EW,
so the Artsakh army is deploying armor again to defend Shusha, they almost lost control of
the road to their capital Stepanakert.
Another relevant piece of information, the Ukros smelling victory by their satrap Biden
last night heavily attacked Donetsk, a taste of things to come.
Posted by: vk | Nov 6 2020 16:33 utc | 76
That's a good one, Evo calling for Almagro, the OAS will take care of Georgia and
Pensilvania.
Uncle Volodya says, "Just because evil liars
stand between us and the gods
and block our view of them
does not mean that the bright halo
that surrounds each liar
is not the outer edges of a god, waiting
for us to find our way around the lie."
The Kyiv Post has always been pretty nationalistic, and never had too much time for
Russia. It has an inconsistent record on the Ukrainian oligarchy, showing occasional flashes of
frankness in which it castigates the idle rich, and depressing runs of puff pieces in which it
canonizes Petro Poroshenko and gnashes its teeth with righteous anger at his detractors.
Several of its regular writers are activists, and their material shows it. Overall, it is the
newspaper of record for Kiev's apologists, and draws a reliable audience of Russophobic
Maidanites hoarsely crying "Yurrup!!!", as if it were some sort of magic answer to all their
problems. But if the paper's material is often delusional, the comments section takes
rollie-eyed psychosis to a whole new level. This is where you get to interact with the
low-information voter, likely from a Ukrainian diaspora in North America, who buys the western
propaganda line wholly and eagerly. Making any remark which appears defensive of Russia is like
a red rag to a bull.
Here, every once in awhile, you run across a different kind of commenter – not just
the usual "Shut your mouth, you Putin troll asswipe!!" who assumes the right to proselytize his
own opinions to his heart's contentment, but will entertain no notion of a dissenting opinion
without shouting that it must have been paid for by Putin and anyone who expresses such
opinions is an employee of the FSB. Get it? Everyone who argues for a free and undivided
Ukraine delivered whole and breathing to Yurrup and its austerity agenda is a patriot who
sounds off because it's the right thing to do; everyone else is paid to lie. Occasionally, you
run across a true apologist; one who is apparently not ignorant, but one who applies his/her
intellect to running interference for the Kiev junta and doing battle on its behalf through
insults, fabrications and assumption of a certain mantle of authority, while devising excuses
for those actions by Kiev that he/she cannot explain away.
I recently did run across just such a person. Attracted to the article "
Ukraine Overturns its Non-Bloc Status. What Next With NATO? " by the sheer zaniness of the
Ukrainian leadership – which keeps bulling ahead with trying to referendum itself into
NATO despite its ongoing border disputes so that it can immediately pull NATO into an Article 5
war with Russia – I read it, and then perused the comments.
I was moved to get involved in the discussion by a comment from Michael Caine – not
the British actor, I'm pretty sure; this individual is not particularly literate but
compensates with stubbornness – who seemed sincere enough, but is fixated on the idea
that Russia (personified, of course, by Putin, as it is whenever it does anything the western
world does not like) has broken international law by acceding to Crimea's request to join the
Russian Federation. This process is invariably described in the Anglospheric press as
"annexation", and we can hardly blame Michael, because high-profile chowderheads all the way up
to and including President Obama have expressed the same opinion, which is completely
unsubstantiated. As we have often discussed, the lifeblood of law is precedent, and a precedent
was established on unilateral declarations of independence with the acceptance of that premise
for the independence of Kosovo. Poland's opinion just happened to be the first I came across,
written by then-Foreign-Minister Radoslaw Sikorski, and it announced smugly that a unilateral
declaration of independence is outside international law and
therefore unregulated by that authority. A state-in-being, saith Radek, is a matter of reality
rather than law, and if you have a population which is distinct by virtue of its language,
customs and cultural attributes, which has its own government, civil institutions and financial
institutions, you are – or you can be – a state by way of a unilateral declaration
of independence.
The Polish opinion was pivotal to the broad recognition of Kosovo, because Poland was the
first East European and the first Slavic nation to recognize it. However – and this is
important – not one other world opinion which supported the recognition of Kosovo
challenged Poland's contention that a unilateral declaration of independence is not an
instrument regulated by international law. Even The Economist , no friend of Russia and
Putin, declared in
advance of the vote that if Crimea chose to detach itself from Ukraine's rule, no court
would be likely to challenge it, while RFE/RL – still less a friend of Russia and Putin
– opined that the Budapest Memorandum (the document in which all the thunderers that
Putin has broken international law vest their hopes) is a diplomatic document rather than a
treaty, and while it is international law, is not
enforceable . Even, if you can imagine, The Hague weighed in,
expressing the legal opinion ,
"Therefore, is the Crimean Parliament vote to join the Russian Federation illegal? The
answer here is no, albeit with the above clarifications and observations. Can the Crimean
population legally exercise its right to external self-determination? The author is of the
opinion that − on the basis of existing international case law − this question can
neither be answered affirmatively or negatively."
All this went about four feet above Mr. Caine's head, because my polite request that he
elaborate on specifically which international law Mr. Putin (who apparently managed the
"annexation" of Crimea singlehandedly) broke received the response that Putin had violated the
law that says Thou Shalt Not Steal, not to mention that other bad one, Thou Shalt Not Kill.
These are ummm not international laws. Although they apply to all observers of the Christian
faith, these are Commandments, and I have yet to see a lawyer hold forth in an international
court on a case in which the Book Of Authorities and Precedents is a stone tablet, although I
should not speak too soon. You never know.
At about this point, The Apologist entered the fray. Under the banner of Swift69, and
plainly one of the protagonists for The Budapest Memorandum, he announced that there was no
unilateral declaration of independence because it was all engineered in Moscow, which allegedly
is a fact that everyone admits.
In point of fact, the Crimean Parliament and City Council of Sevastopol did declare Crimea's
independence, in writing ( here's the
English translation ), and specifically citing the unilateral declaration of independence
of Kosovo as precedent. That was actually in advance of the referendum, which asked respondents
if they did or did not favour Crimea applying to join the Russian Federation. So far as I am
aware nobody has admitted or otherwise affirmed in any way that Crimea's declaration of
independence originated in Moscow. Russia admitted in April 2014 that it had conducted advance polling in Crimea to determine the level of support for
independence, an issue which had been raised on and off since the 90's. Kind of hard to
interpret that as unacceptable interference in a reality that seems to see nothing wrong with
political-activist NGO's operated in Moscow and paid by American think tanks attempting to
amass support for overthrowing and replacing the Russian government, what?
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Up to this point it was just an amusing academic tussle – Clash Of The References, if
you will, although Swift69 actually didn't supply any. But it turned ugly from there.
I wrote, " Meanwhile Ukraine has no room at all to be preaching about international law,
nor do any of its defenders. Indiscriminate attack such as firing short-range ballistic
missiles into civilian population centers is a war crime. "
Swift69 replied, " Ballistic Missies"( sic ) – the word "ballistic" simply
means that it is "on a ballistic trajectory." Every bullet ever fired and every grad ever
launched is a "ballistic missile." While you're clearly trying to use the term to elicit
sympathy based on people's association of the word n the phrase "intercontinental ballistic
missile" or somesuch, it's nonsense. Use of ballistic weapons is no more a "war crime" than use
of gravity is "into civilian centers." what nonsense. "Many of the shocking cases, particularly
those published by the Russian media are greatly exaggerated There's no convincing evidence of
mass killings or graves." – Amnesty International report."
Let's just ponder that for a moment. Swift69 is implying an equivalency between a bullet
which might kill two or three people if it ricochets and hits more than its intended target,
and a fucking ballistic missile
which has a warhead that weighs more than half a ton (1,058 pounds). CNN
reported live that U.S. officials had confirmed Ukrainian forces fired "several" Tochka-U
(SS-21 Scarab) missiles "into areas controlled by pro-Russian separatists". The same source
reported it could kill "dozens". The Tochka-U has a Circular Error Probability (CEP) of 160
meters. That means even in the unlikely event that you were aiming it at a cluster of 20 armed
combatants – from as much as 70 km away – you could only count on the weapon
landing somewhere within 160 meters of them. The Ukrainians fired them into cities in
Donbass. And this shitbag is saying I merely tacked on the word "ballistic" to make it sound
scary, and to win sympathy for those it was fired at which they did not really deserve. Take a
look at the crater – that look like a bullet hole to you?
So, let's review. In fact, Indiscriminate Attackis
a war crime, in accordance with Customary International Humanitarian Law, Rule 12.
Indiscriminate Attack is defined as attack which is (a) not directed at a specific military
objective, (b) employs a method or means of combat which cannot be directed at a specific
military objective, or (c) employs a method or means of combat the effects of which cannot be
limited as required by international humanitarian law; and consequently, in each such case, are
of a nature to strike military objectives and civilians or civilian objects without
distinction.
Explain to me, if you can, how you can fire a ballistic missile with a circular error
probability of 160 meters (524 feet) into a city which contains both civilians and
paramilitaries, and be reasonably confident you will not kill or injure any civilians, or even
that you know from as far away as 70 km from the city that is your target, what you are
shooting at? How are you going to limit the effects of your attack with a 1000 lb+ warhead so
that it only kills military combatants?
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Even the bullet Captain Sarcastic implied was also a "ballistic missile" could get you in
front of a war crimes tribunal, if you just loosed off some of them into a crowd which was a
composite of civilians and combatants without attempting to differentiate between the two. The
weapon is not the concern – aimed shots in a scenario in which you are attempting to
confine your fire to military targets is. Love of God, how hard is that to grasp?
Swift69 goes on to accuse me of sensationalizing further with the implication that the
Ukrainian army is firing into civilian population centers, and proceeds to conflate that with
an Amnesty International report which accused Russia of propagandizing mass graves, saying
there was no credible evidence of that. The two issues have nothing to do with one another. I
said the Ukrainian army is firing heavy weapons into Donbass cities at a range beyond which it
can discriminate between civilian and military targets, and that considerable loss of life and
tremendous damage has resulted. That is absolutely an
accurate portrayal of the state of affairs .
For a grand finale, Swift69 proceeds to attack the source of an article which reports that
Ukrainian forces or agents of the Ukrainian government have cut off the civilian populations of
cities in eastern Ukraine from water and food and medicines in an attempt to force their
surrender, and that this is also a war crime. That's a good tactic, and I use it sometimes
myself – if you're not comfortable that you can refute what was said, imply the person
who reported it is a lunatic. In this instance, I think there is plenty of corroborating
evidence that forces acting on Kiev's direction did just what I accuse
them of doing .
Kiev is committing war crimes against Ukrainian citizens with the vociferous approval of the
Kyiv Post , the tacit approval of the leadership of NATO countries and the slobbering
whitewash of Kiev's loony-fringe supporters. Shamelessly, right under your nose, and in the
clear presence of condemnatory evidence that should have the lot of them swinging from the
gibbet.
The woman speaking above is a certain Col. Brittany Stewart, Military Attaché to
the U.S. Embassy in Kiev. Yet another American woman doing a man's job! The Russian Ministry
of Defence was none too pleased with Colonel Stewart's little performance:
On October 16, the Defence Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Moscow was invited to
the Russian Federation Ministry of Defence Main Directorate for International Military
Cooperation.
The US Department of Defence representative was informed about the position of the
Russian Ministry of Defence with regards to a recent statement made by the Military
Attaché to the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, Air Force Col. Brittany Stewart, on the joint
efforts of the US and Ukrainian Armed Forces in countering so-called "Russian
aggression".
The American side was briefed on the false claims of the statement and its provocative
nature, which compels the Ukrainian side to a military resolution of the internal conflict in
the Donbass.
The above mentioned statement is contradictory to previous declarations made by
Pentagon officials on a settlement of the situation in the Ukraine by peaceful means
only.
[Edited by Moscow Exile because of grammatical and punctuation errors in the above-linked
Russian -English statement, although the Russian Ministry of Defence did spell "defence"
correctly! :-)]
"We congratulate the defenders of the Ukraine. Thank them for their self-sacrifice and for
taking risks every day", she says in an East Slav dialect, noting that during their visit to
the Ukraine, US Deputy Secretary of State Stephen Bigan and US Secretary of State Michael
Pompeo had visited memorials to fallen soldiers, "because it was these soldiers who had
sacrificed themselves to help protect the democracy, sovereignty and territorial integrity of
the Ukraine".
"The USA is and will be your indestructible partner", emphasized the Colonel Stewart.
"... Of course the quick objection is that Turkey is getting a crap deal on every single aspect mentioned. This is especially true of Erdogan personally, whose true existential need is to win the war against the Kurds he re-started in Turkey. For instance, the US covertly helps Turkey stay in Syria but simultaneously it "supports" Rojava. And so on and so forth. Yes, the US government is a bully and cheats even its friends. Under Trump it especially cheats its friends, because they are the easiest marks. ..."
james@30 asks "what is the usa offering Turkey here??"
Offering continued intervention in Syria, de facto in alliance with Turkey, which weakens
the Kurds in effect; splitting the Kurds internationally by supporting the KRG; supporting
the continued partition of Cyprus; supporting the effective dismantling of NATO, a very
important point re Greek relations; neutrality in Libya and the disputes over eastern
Mediterranean drilling; deeming Erdogan one of the good Muslims instead of pursuing a
virulent regime change campaign; no economic warfare like in Venezuela.
Of course the quick objection is that Turkey is getting a crap deal on every single
aspect mentioned. This is especially true of Erdogan personally, whose true existential need
is to win the war against the Kurds he re-started in Turkey. For instance, the US covertly
helps Turkey stay in Syria but simultaneously it "supports" Rojava. And so on and so forth.
Yes, the US government is a bully and cheats even its friends. Under Trump it especially
cheats its friends, because they are the easiest marks.
The thing is, Russia cannot bring Erdogan either victory over the Kurds or a healthy
economy. Nor is it clear to me that Putin has any strategy whatsoever for any endgame.
Re Turkey. Erdogan is a megalomaniac nationalist. He is neither a servant of the US nor of
Putin. He does what he thinks is in the interests of Turkey.
The moment the New York Post reported on some of the sleazy, corrupt details contained on
Hunter Biden's hard drive, Twitter and Facebook, the social media giants most closely connected
to the way Americans exchange political information, went into overdrive to suppress the
information and protect Joe Biden. In the case of Facebook, though, perhaps one of those
protectors was, in fact, protecting herself.
The person currently in charge of Facebook's election integrity program is Anna Makanju .
That name probably doesn't mean a lot to you, but it should mean a lot – and in a
comforting way -- to Joe Biden.
Before ending up at Facebook, Makanju was a nonresident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic
Council. The Atlantic Council is an ostensibly non-partisan think tank that deals with
international affairs. In fact, it's a decidedly partisan organization.
In 2009, James L. Jones, the Atlantic Council's chairman left the organization to be
President Obama's National Security Advisor. Susan Rice, Richard Holbrooke, Eric Shinseki,
Anne-Marie Slaughter, Chuck Hagel, and Brent Scowcroft also were all affiliated with the Atlantic Council
before they ended up in the Obama administration.
The Atlantic Council has received massive amounts of foreign funding over the years. Here's
one that should interest everyone: Burisma Holdings donated $300,000
dollars to the Atlantic Council, over the course of three consecutive years, beginning in
2016. The information below may explain why it began paying that money to the Council.
Not only was the Atlantic Council sending people into the Obama-Biden administration, but it
was also serving as an outside advisor. And that gets us back to Anna Makanju, the person
heading Facebook's misleadingly titled "election integrity program."
Makanju also worked at the Atlantic Council. The following is the relevant part of Makanju's
professional bio from her page at the Atlantic Council
(emphasis mine):
Anna Makanju is a nonresident senior fellow with the Transatlantic Security Initiative.
She is a public policy and legal expert working at Facebook, where she leads efforts to
ensure election integrity on the platform. Previously, she was the special policy adviser for
Europe and Eurasia to former US Vice President Joe Biden , senior policy adviser to
Ambassador Samantha Power at the United States Mission to the United Nations, director for
Russia at the National Security Council, and the chief of staff for European and NATO Policy
in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. She has also taught at the Woodrow Wilson School
at Princeton University and worked as a consultant to a leading company focused on space
technologies.
Makanju was a player in the faux Ukraine impeachment. Early in December 2019, when the
Democrats were gearing up for the impeachment, Glenn Kessler
mentioned her in an article assuring Washington Post readers that, contrary to the Trump
administration's claims, there was nothing corrupt about Biden's dealings with Ukraine. He made
the point then that Biden now raises as a defense: Biden didn't pressure Ukraine to fire
prosecutor Viktor Shokin to protect Burisma; he did it because Shokin wasn't doing his job when
it came to investigating corruption.
Kessler writes that, on the same day in February 2016 that then-Ukrainian President
Poroshenko announced that Shokin had offered his resignation, Biden spoke to both Poroshenko
and Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk. The White House version is that Biden gave both men pep
talks about reforming the government and fighting corruption. And that's where Makanju comes
in:
Anna Makanju, Biden's senior policy adviser for Ukraine at the time, also listened to the
calls and said release of the transcripts would only strengthen Biden's case that he acted
properly. She helped Biden prepare for the conversations and said they operated at a high
level, with Biden using language such as Poroshenko's government being "nation builders for a
transformation of Ukraine."
A reference to a private company such as Burisma would be "too fine a level of
granularity" for a call between Biden and the president of another country, Makanju told The
Fact Checker. Instead, she said, the conversation focused on reforms demanded by the
International Monetary Fund, methods to tackle corruption and military assistance. An
investigation of "Burisma was just not significant enough" to mention, she said.
Let me remind you, in case you forgot, that Burisma started paying the Atlantic Council a
lot of money in 2016, right when Makanju was advising Biden regarding getting rid of
Shokin.
Receive a daily recap featuring a curated list of must-read stories.
That's right folks, the Facebook executive currently blocking all of the negative evidence
of Hunter and Joe Biden's corrupt activity in Ukraine is the same person who was coordinating
the corrupt activity between the Biden family payoffs and Ukraine.
You just cannot make this stuff up folks.
The incestuous networking between Democrats in the White House, Congress, the Deep State,
the media, and Big Tech never ends. That's why the American people wanted and still want Trump,
the true outsider, to head the government. They know that Democrats have turned American
politics into one giant Augean Stable and that Trump is
the Hercules who (we hope) can clean it out.
Hunter Biden, Joe's son, was hired as lobbyist by the Ukranian gas company Burisma while his
father, then Vice President of the United States, directed U.S. foreign policy with regards to
the Ukraine.
Joe Biden famously
ordered (vid) the Ukrainian President Poroshenko to fire his General Prosecutor Viktor
Shokin. He threatened to otherwise withhold a $1 billion loan to the Ukraine. Biden's pressure
to fire Shokin came ten days after Shokin had confiscated several house of Burisma owner Mykola
Zlochevsky. Shokin was eventually fired, the loan to the Ukraine was released and the
corruption case against Zlochevsky was buried.
Joe Biden has denied:
That he had talks with his son about Hunter's lobbying job for Burisma.
That he had ever any talk with Burisma related people.
That his insistent on firing Shokin was related to an investigation by Shokin into the
owner of Burisma.
The emails the NY Post posted show that one of Burisma's managers thanked Hunter
Biden for arranging a meeting with Joe Biden. The source of the emails is allegedly a laptop
owned by Hunter Biden which was left at a repair shop.
Some Biden acolytes claim that the emails must have come from an alleged Russian hack of
Burisma. But the NY Post also published private photos of Hunter Biden showing him
smoking and passed out next to a crack pipe. The photos may well have been, as the Post
claims, on a laptop Hunter Biden owned. It is extremely unlikely that they were hacked from
Burisma severs.
The Biden campaign offered only a weak
refutation of the NY Post claim that he met with the Burisma manager:
Biden's campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of
informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn't appear on Biden's official schedule. But
they said any encounter would have been cursory.
In an unprecedented manipulative act Facebook as well as Twittercensored links
to the NY Post story:
Twitter prohibited its users from posting links to the Post story, while Facebook reduced how
often the story shows up in users' news feeds and elsewhere on the Facebook platform.
...
The New York Post, in an editorial responding to the companies' actions, said: "Censor first,
ask questions later: It's an outrageous attitude for two of the most powerful platforms in
the United States to take."
...
Facebook, the world's biggest social network, limited dissemination of the Post story within
hours of its publication on Wednesday, according to a tweet by spokesman Andy Stone.
Stone cited a policy saying that Facebook can temporarily take action against content
pending review by news organizations and others in its third-party fact-checking program "if
we have signals that a piece of content is false."
He served as communications director for the House Majority PAC between 2012 and 2014; press
secretary for Democratic California Sen. Barbara Boxer between 2011 and 2012; and press
secretary for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) between 2009 and 2011,
according to his LinkedIn profile.
Facebook's 'fact checking' is done by the shady Atlantic Council:
Following the Streisand effect the censoring of the
NY Post story by Facebook and Twitter has increased the distribution of
its claims.
Many outlets reported on it. However a number of these also repeated false claims that
Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner when Joe Biden pushed for his firing.
The Washington Post's 'fact checker' Glenn Kessler
claims :
[T]he Americans saw an obstacle to reform in Viktor Shokin, the top Ukrainian prosecutor,
whom the United States viewed as ineffective and beholden to Poroshenko and Ukraine's corrupt
oligarchs. In particular, Shokin had failed to pursue an investigation of the founder of
Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky .
While Shokin had been investigating Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that Hunter Biden was
on the board of, the investigation had long been dormant by the time the vice president was
pushing for Shokin's ouster in early 2016 , a former Ukrainian official told Bloomberg News
in May 2019.
But let's be clear: Shokin wasn't fired because of anything improper Joe Biden did, no matter
how colorfully
Biden recounted the tale in 2018. It's a point worth repeating, loudly, as Daniel
Goldman, the former prosecutor who led the investigation for House Democrats, did on Twitter.
Let's try this one more time: the Ukrainian prosecutor was fired because he was NOT
prosecuting corruption cases and there was NO Ukrainian investigation into Burisma . In
addition to there being no evidence to support the bogus allegations, the basic premise is
simply false.
The claim that Shokin was not investigating Burisma and its owner is evidently false. As we
have
pointed out several times Shokin, the prosecutor, confiscated four large houses and a
luxary car of Burisma owner Mykola Zlochevsky just ten days before Joe Biden started to press
for his firing.
The movable and immovable property of former Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources of
Ukraine Mykola Zlochevsky in Ukraine has been seized, according to the press service of the
Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine (PGO).
"The PGO filed a petition to court to arrest the property of the ex-Minister of Ecology
and Natural Resources of Ukraine, the Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defence
Council of Ukraine, Mykola Zlochevsky, from which arrest was withdrawn, and other property he
actually uses, namely housing estate with a total area of 922 square meters, a land plot of
0.24 hectares, a garden house with a total area of 299.8 square meters, a garden house in the
territory of Vyshgorod district, a garden house of 2,312 square meters, a land plot of 0.0394
hectares, a Rolls-Royce Phantom car, a Knott 924-5014 trainer," reads the report.
The PGO clarifies that the court satisfied the petition on February 2, 2016.
Biden's call to Poroshenko during which he pressed for Shokin's firing followed on February
12 2016. At that time Burisma paid millions to the lobbying shop of Joe Biden's son.
That U.S. media continue to deny that Shokin was indeed going after Burisma's owner shortly
before Joe Biden called for his firing is despicable.
Joe Biden's corrupt intervention in the Ukraine stinks to high heaven.
I just wanted to pop in and say to all the frothing tds-adherents among the patrons how
important it is to vote for "Quid-pro-quo-Joe" this Halloween.
It is the only way we can get the first leader in U.S. history to openly flout our
corruption-laws for the good of his degenerate offspring.
This is a monumental accomplishment and will help pave the way for a return of our
international reputation signalling that the Federal Gov't is OPEN FOR BUSINESS!
Yee-haaaaawwwwww!
Get those hard-working Trump kids the f$%@ outta there! Their noses to clean! Lol.
It's only by chance of destiny that the Democratic elite is involved with schemes of
corruption in ex-USSR and ex-Yugoslavia. It just happened that both regions fell when Bill
Clinton - a Democrat - was in power. As a result, everybody who was close him at the time got
rich and a permanent net of contacts with those regional elites.
However, it seems the New York Post is really pro-Trump - at least in his anti-China
stance. In the article titled "Emails reveal how Hunter Biden tried to cash in big on behalf
of family with Chinese firm" (linked at the end of this blog's post), it is revealed at the
end of the article that the firm is actually from Hong Kong, and that its contact was a
Hongkonger living in a mansion in Long Island, USA, and already had a criminal record in
American territory and was deported to HK. In other words, the firm has nothing to do with
the Mainland and, more importantly, with the CCP.
It's not traditional for an American news outlet to use the adjective "Chinese" to
designate something or someone from Hong Kong. They usually make it very clear it or he/she
is "from Hong Kong". Americans and the British don't consider Hong Kong as being part of
China, even today. That the New York Post suddenly decided Hong Kong is part of China is in
line with Trump's campaign against Biden that he's pro-China.
Do you think that Hunter is the type of guy who has his ducks in a row? On the ball?? A
real go-getter?
Anyone that has come out of a spiritual darkness will willingly admit how doing the
simplest things in life are the hardest to manage under the influence of whatever multiple
addictions the guy obviously suffers under.
Spilling water on a device is easy. Dropping it off is easy.
But I will admit I would like yo know more details about this exchange. What store,
etc.?
Not a single Amerikastani will choose whom to vote for on the basis of information.
Amerikastani politics is tribal and Amerikastanis will vote according to the tribe they
belong to, or not vote at all.
The probability Biden did something illegal is small. The corruption of the system is so
pervasive that the son's influence peddling is legal.
The real point, that Biden is a traitor selling out to foreigners, is straight forward BS,
suitable only for simpletons. Just becasue reight-wing assholes pushed similar garbage about
Clinton with Benghazi/emails/Clinton Foundation doesn't make it one bit smarter. That Biden
is entirely undistinguished by anything whatsoever except being chosen VP is not really
contested by even his supporters. The real case for Biden is he is not Trump. That case is
only refuted by showing how Trump is effective, honorable, insightful, etc. Shady slanders
about treason aren't that case.
The real case against Biden is that you cannot really vote against someone, you can only
vote for.
Ruh-roh. I guess this is October Surprise #2, the first being the Curious Case of Trump's
Covid. There was no push-back by anyone when DC was labeled a swamp of corruption. At this
point 'draining the swamp' is as far away as a Kanye West presidency. We'll probably have
October Surprises spurting over the landscape until Election Eve. The question of Biden
corruption won't hurt as much as being caught lying about it. Will it make a difference? Yes.
Trump's chance of winning just went from 10% to 17%. But with two+ weeks left, and huge early
voting? We've seen two October Surprises launched by the Trump campaign. A thwarted third
'surprise' was the hope to release Barr/Durham report on the creation of Russia-gate. Barr
has demurred. Will October be a one-sided affair, or are there any surprises left to spring
from the Biden camp - and what if anything could possibly make a difference.
As usual, there're heaps of corruption all over both factions of the Duopoly, and it worsens
every election cycle. Two items caught my eyes this morning in my trip through my news feeds.
Escobar's
long election related article at Strategic Culture has much to chew on. Michael
Klare's "Talking
Tough & Carrying a Radioactive Stick" reviews the astounding number of provocations
made by nuclear capable aircraft of areas surrounding Russia and China since TrumpCo's
Nuclear Posture Review was done in Feb 2018.
As it stands now, I'll vote for Dario Hunter, the Progressive Party POTUS candidate as I
can make no argument favoring either faction of the Duopoly.
div> neither of the two supersized warmongering bowls of crap should be
within a mile of the presidency, and this is just more proof. the msm is shutting this story
down just like it shuts down the assange story.
Posted by: pretzelattack , Oct 15 2020 17:14 utc |
15
neither of the two supersized warmongering bowls of crap should be within a mile of the
presidency, and this is just more proof. the msm is shutting this story down just like it
shuts down the assange story.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Oct 15 2020 17:14 utc |
15
B is right, as usual, but it won't matter because elections are a referendum on the ruling
party, not on the challenger. And ever since Watergate, Americans assume that all politicians
are crooks.
how about the idea that clinton, and biden are traitors pushing war with russia and making a
little more on the side while pushing the real agenda. obama is slippier, no smoking guns
tying that house on martha's vineyard to pushing the treasonous russiagate propaganda.
thanks b.. i agree with your quote here
"That U.S. media continue to deny that Shokin was indeed going after Burisma's owner shortly
before Joe Biden called for his firing is despicable."
@ c1ue | Oct 15 2020 16:10 utc | 2... that is only part of it... bidens direct actions are
the other part...
@ steven t johnson | Oct 15 2020 16:52 utc | 10.. quote "The probability Biden did
something illegal is small. " right.... believe what you want to believe then... why not
admit that regardless of which party gets in power, they are both corrupt to the core?? i am
always amazed at those incapable of seeing this..
The importance of voting out the current Cretin-in-Charge for the causes of basic humanity
and decent governance, among many others, remains; but the Dems surely don't make it easy, do
they? Out of 20+ candidates, and just like last time, they picked the one most likely
corrupted and most likely vulnerable to attacks from the Repubs. It's almost as if the people
who pick the candidate want someone compromised and therefore controllable, just like the
current president.
Reminded again of the Douglas Adams quote from the Hitchhiker series about leaders:
"The major problem -- one of the major problems, for there are several -- one of the many
major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who
manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are,
ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President
should on no account be allowed to do the job."
Talking to two "liberal" friends last week discovered they were busy taking lessons to learn
Ukrainian language. Which of course barely even exists as dialect and has no national
literature. But liberals are in love with Ukraine and all it stands for. Whatever Joe Biden
was busy doing if it meant he was standing shoulder to shoulder with Ukrainians then all is
good.
Russia bad. Repeat ten thousand times. Ukraine dpubleplusgood. No questions allowed.
'i am always amazed at those incapable of seeing this.'
Looks like there's panic at the troll farm this morning. Similar to what we're seeing from
'big tech'. Is there any connection between the two? Same bosses, maybe?
"Following the Streisand effect the censoring of the NY Post story by Facebook and Twitter
has increased the distribution of its claims."
That was completely predictable.
It was also predictable that the CIA blowing the whistle (a little more than a year ago)
would have the effect of harming Biden's reputation far more than it hurt trump.
It was also predictable that after Biden's reputation was damaged the Democrats would
double down on Biden and thus choose the only candidate (besides Hillary) that could lose to
trump
I also predicted the day i heard that the CIA had blown the whistle revealing Biden's
corruption to the sheeple that read and rely on the MSM that the evidence that would confirm
the Biden corruption would magically appear right before the election.
I would not be surprised if more revelations about what is on Hunter's laptop are
forthcoming.
have to agree the "computer repair shop" angle is highly unlikely. all data is swept up and
held - I assume accessing specific information is not insurmountable. The NY Post story is
probably sourced to a leak - which is how it's done nowadays. Just like Trump's taxes.
Twitter/ Facebook censorship is now fact of life. this effort was result of pressure by
Democrat politicians egged on by liberal intelligentsia and Dem-linked MSM (ie NY Times). The
infantilization of western culture and politics is a long-term trend.
Maybe your "liberal" friends found themselves an interesting job in becoming trainers to
ukranian nato-led groups of thugs.They move them all over the world to do some interesting
sightseeing and making fun with war-savvy foreign thugs like Free Syrian Army and jihadi's
and hongkong cockroaches.All in the best possible taste of MI6.In the repression of the
Yellow Vests foreign speaking dressed up as French intervention teams ; armoured police with
unpolicelike methods were overheard,provocateurs were filmed.People tend to forget.
Any more information available about the first days of the BLM?There was talk about
pallets and piles of bricks .
Later on in Kenosha talk about several limo's unloading people,the fabulous lighting,could
it have been a setup that cocked up because of a naive teenager wanting to do his best ?Are
there follow-ups on those allegations or reports?
Well summed up. I did vote blue, ballot already mailed in receipt duly recorded at county
election office, but they don't make it easy, do they? I had to do the proverbial and
figurative nose-holding to do it in 2020. This year, it was more like full, level-4 hazmat
prep even to vote by mail. I guess that fits with the pandemic theme, too. I wanted to turn
the ballot around the same day because I didn't even want it under my roof soiling my house,
but it was actually the next day when I completed and mailed it. I have never felt so dirty
and disgusted about voting. I may not even be alive by 2022, but I don't know how or if I
will go beyond this and vote in the midterms.
Despite screwing the Palestinians; occupying parts of Syria; assassinating a foreign
leader; renegging on a peace agreement with North Korea; and toughening sanctions on Iran
during a global pandemic.
Trump beats Covid. USA! USA! USA!
He didn't need to go to Walter Reed Hospital, but did so for effect. And information
about his condition is tightly controlled. Did he really have it?
Pelosi holds up Covid-related economic stimulus/relief for individuals
Trump seems generous in comparison (he's not).
Hunter's laptop, supposedly abandoned, is given to the FBI.
Pundits and Pearl clutchers will look no further as it fits with the narrrative.
<> <> <> <> <>
The 2020 election has effectively made into a MAGA referendum. Vote Trump if you want
war to save America from her internal and ex./sarc
Both of the Deep State's Duopoly Parties want to Trump to be re-elected. TINA!
Despite screwing the Palestinians; occupying parts of Syria; assassinating a foreign
leader; renegging on a peace agreement with North Korea; and toughening sanctions on Iran
during a global pandemic.
Trump beats Covid. USA! USA! USA!
He didn't need to go to Walter Reed Hospital, but did so for effect. And information
about his condition is tightly controlled. Did he really have it?
Pelosi holds up Covid-related economic stimulus/relief for individuals
Trump seems generous in comparison (he's not).
Hunter's laptop, supposedly abandoned, is given to the FBI.
Pundits and Pearl clutchers will look no further as it fits with the narrrative.
<> <> <> <> <>
The 2020 election has effectively made into a MAGA referendum. Vote Trump if you want war
to save America from her internal and ex./sarc
Both of the Deep State's Duopoly Parties want to Trump to be re-elected. TINA!
@ dh-mtl | Oct 15 2020 17:51 utc | 24... big tech and same bosses - may as well be.. the boss
is NSA-CIA... this attempt at narrative control is quite fascinating...
i agree with what @ jinn | Oct 15 2020 17:52 utc | 25 says... they can't control it...
they just make it worse...
Trump has also: supported a coup against the government of Venezuela; terminated peace
treaties (including JCPOA);
greatly increased defense spending ; militarized space; and sought to bomb Iran in
retaliation for the downing of a US drone (Russia wouldn't allow it).
it's not supposed jackrabbit, they aren't reporting it. blanket media silence. and the
average american, i would wager, is not aware of what's going on. same playbook as iraq, with
many of the same actors and all of the same corporate media.
i see the bootlicker brigade is back, pretending that blm and antifa is behind the violence
when it is crystal clear that it is jackbooted government thug cops who murder people in
broad daylight, with the support of both parties, that are kicking off the resistance. and
pretending that right wing militias are not a threat. trump is going to lose due to the virus
and the economy, and some of these right wing scumbags will carry out a campaign of terror
attacks in response. hope there are no more ok cities.
In reply to Biswapriya Purkayast | Oct 15 2020 16:29 utc |
8
Amerikastani politics is tribal and Amerikastanis will vote according to the tribe they
belong to, or not vote at all.
We're a significant 'tribe' as well. Non voters are a huge block of USians who for many
reasons refuse to validate the corrupt system.
According to The 100 Million Project, "...dispel outdated assumptions about non-voters.
These are our fellow citizens, and they come from every walk of life. But there are some
factors that unite them, which we examine in this report. By bringing to life this diverse
group and their views on politics, the study acts as a clarion call to energize a new
generation of engaged citizens..."
james@19 quotes me for some reason. Inasmuch as I say the system, which includes both
parties, is so rotten what should be corruption has been legalized, and condemn both parties
for crying "treason!" against both Clinton and Trump, then the professed "amazement" that I
and others don't see that both parties are corrupt means...somehow...my dismissing the latest
round of this BS about how leading US politicians are traitors, traitors, traitors is
wrong....implying without being so honest as to say outright, Biden really is a traitor! Like
Clinton! But not like Trump! If there's anything but Trumpery there I've missed it.
Again, there is absolutely nothing good to say about Trump that isn't a pack of lies
(mainly drivel about the Deep State and economic nationalism.) Neither is there anything good
to say about Biden except he's not Trump. Unfortunately you cannot actually vote against
Trump, you can only vote for Biden. Biden may be a blank, but any blank check voters hand him
will be cashed by someone. We see here the genius of the system in full play: Most of us are
effectively disenfranchised before the vote because it has been arranged that we have no one
to vote for. Vote suppression, mail in ballots, all that is not even required to rig the
election.
What nobody ever talks about is the why of Hunter Biden's association with Burisma, Devon
Archer, and Stephen Kappes (former Deputy Director of the CIA). I wrote the following here at
MofA 6 1/2 years ago. Its worth revisiting to put the current kerfuffle in context:
While the Hunter Biden story is definitely important, we mustn't let its sensationalist
appearances override a much more important story.
One of Hunter and Joe Biden's buddies is Devon Archer -- who also was a chairman on John
Kerry's presidential bid, a rich bundler with ties to the Heinz family. Devon Archer was
just appointed to the board of Burisma along with Biden.
Archer's importance? He sits on the board of DiamondBack Tactics, which is a part of the
military-industrial complex of corporations funded by Torch Hill -- a ready made security,
weaponry, and mercenary outfit ready to roll.
And who is the Chairman of DiamondBack? None other than former CIA Deputy Chief Stephen
Kappes. Kappes was the man who ran the extraordinary (and illegal) rendition program in the
early-mid 2000's. He was convicted in Italy of the kidnapping of an Egyptian Muslim cleric
in 2009. Kappes has had his hands in all the goings on in the middle east and eurasia for
decades, running and setting up many CIA stations, including Moscow, Frankfurt, Pakistan
and Pakistan.
Want to know what's going on? Follow the money -> Burisma ownership eventually leads
to Privat Holdings and Ihor Kolomoyskyi. And the team of Kappes, Biden and Archer, via
Burisma, ensures that U.S. oligarchical goals are being furthered. Burisma is just a shell
for the CIA to operate out of.
I don't see any reason to revise my assertion that Burisma is a CIA shell company, and
Hunter Biden was just assisting his dad and the CIA in its nefarious activities. And that is
why the truth has been, and will continue to be buried.
"...what should be corruption has been legalized, and condemn both parties for crying
"treason!" against both Clinton and Trump, then the professed "amazement" that I and others
don't see that both parties are corrupt means...somehow...my dismissing the latest round of
this BS about how leading US politicians are traitors, traitors, traitors is
wrong....implying without being so honest as to say outright, Biden really is a traitor! Like
Clinton! But not like Trump! If there's anything but Trumpery there I've missed it. "
The problem with that, charging them with corruption and treason, is we don't have a
viable alternative. It's like you can't fire the help without understanding how to do what
they do for yourself.
We're using a sort of containment strategy. Assuming we have to put up with corruption, we
try to ensure a minimization of its effects on us.
"...there is absolutely nothing good to say about Trump that isn't a pack of lies..."
Is it a lie to say that Trump isn't Biden?
Is it a lie to say that Trump openly and bluntly criticizes the corporate mass media?
Is it a lie to say that Trump scrapped the TPP?
Is it a lie to say that Trump ridicules identity politics and thus weakens its ability to
silence critics?
Is it a lie to say that Trump is forcing the international community to critically re-examine
their relationship with the American empire?
I don't think these things are lies, and I do think they are good for humanity.
Funny how Trump Derangement Syndrome victims always seem to be completely unaware
of their derangement. The syndrome must create its own blind spot.
@ steven t johnson
"Biden may be a blank, but any blank check voters hand him will be cashed by someone."
Would that be Kamala Harris, backed by Clinton/Pelosi?
Fascinating show! Nineteen/twenty sleeps to go.
Unsurprisingly the journalist responsible for the Hunter Biden nothingburger is linked to
Breitbart. Breitbart-style right-wing propaganda is not even muck racking, so much as aping
that style through lies and deception in order to keep their right-wing readers scared
shitless of any alternative to the GOP. Older folks might remember "Bureaucrash" which
similarly aped the Yes Men. I don't know if Bureaucrash is still around, but the biggest name
inheritor of that kind of project is "Project Veritas" by rich kid James O'Keefe who avoided
a wiretapping charge over his attempted wiretapping of Senator Mary Landrieu because one of
his co-conspirators was a local attorney's son. This is not to imply guilt by association,
but I am always suspicious of right-wing journalism because the milieu of right-wing
journalists is devoted to their political project to the point that they're almost practicing
their own idea of taqiya in their endeavors.
How much effort are we supposed to go through to connect the dots between an investigation
of Burisma's former head, an apparently "cursory" interaction between that former head and
Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden's presence on Burisma's board? Without evidence, are we supposed
to assume - in line with a far right conspiracist narrative - that the cursory interaction
was the former head of Burisma calling in a favor? Given that the investigation was centered
around happenings that occurred before Hunter Biden was on the board, what benefit would Joe
Biden personally have gotten from squashing the investigation?
There's been plenty of suspicion that CIA was connected to Burisma but your comment
essentially confirms it.
Normally Biden and his son's mistakes would be covered up/hushed up. But the Biden's are
being roasted so that the Deep State can re-elect Trump.
I should dig up my old comments from years ago about Deep State wanted to elect Trump and
Hillary throwing the election to Trump. (I just don't have the time right now.) It should be
more clear now after what we've seen from the Democratics over the last 12 months.
Censorship of political speech just before an election is as dangerous to democracy as
anything possibly could be.
It is far more dangerous than Putin buying a few Facebook ads.
Keeping things in perspective, Democrats are willing to toss democracy, just so long as
they can get power. That is exactly what they accuse Republicans of doing. And of course,
Republicans would, even if this time it is Democrats doing it.
This stinks in a very familiar way to the Clinton Foundation corruption of 'pay to play' that
Wikileaks published just before Trump got elected in 2016 (among the many others). A whole
new dimension of corruption and collusion is emerging. The fact even Facebook and Twitter are
now prepared to act so shamelessly and overtly is highly alarming, not just disgusting.
I will not at all be surprised if US voters go for another middle finger vote. Many will
find it a tough choice between organised corruption or chaotic populism.
Pozharsky and Burisma, and karma to the rescue but to be unnoticed by US voters. The root for
Pozharsky is fire, like burnt out, and Burisma is drill, drilling, like the ineffable Sarah
Palin from Alaska, from her window she could see Russia so she new a lot about the russkies,
drill baby drill. So drill and fire plus Biden on tape as Satrap Major conditioning a billion
buck loan on firing some functionary on a far away land. And that seems to be quite normal
for the american voter. Probably that's the reason why the candidates for the election are no
candidates at all. You do not have an election.
Normally Biden and his son's mistakes would be covered up/hushed up. But the Biden's are
being roasted so that the Deep State can re-elect Trump.
___________________________________________
Yes but:
A] they were never mistakes
B] nobody will go to jail
C] the Bidens will make tons of money writing books and giving speeches and being put on more
corporate boards.
You're almost correct. We have an election for the two executives atop the federal
government, but we don't have any real choice when it comes to candidates as those are
carefully controlled, and that is the most distinctive way in which the Outlaw US Empire
fails as a democratic-republic and is instead an authoritarian form of government at the
federal level. This was made possible by the overthrowing of the Articles of Confederation
and replacement by the 1787 Constitution which allowed for the continuation of governance by
the Aristocratic Class. By the time universal suffrage was enacted after WW1, the
misallocation of wealth had already allowed the Creditor Class to gain control of the federal
government. That Class has maintained its control except for the short interruption by FDR.
The secret for the Class's ability to stay in control is rather simple--Divide and Rule--as
it also owns the methods to exert control. Much the same exists within the EU, which is why
it acts in such close lockstep with the Outlaw US Empire.
The formula for the world's people to gain their freedom is rather simple: They must
overthrow the Creditor Class and never allow them to gain power again by socializing all
institutions. The hard part is getting the people of the planet to realize that is what's
required and then going about its implementation.
@ steven t johnson | Oct 15 2020 19:50 utc | 38.. thanks for your response... i just see both
choices are bad choices for the usa.. but then i see the usa as an empire in fast decline..
maybe there is a slight difference in which one of these 2 candidates is going to take down
the usa faster.. that is about it in my mind.. and fwiw i do agree with some of what @ 41
william gruff says and what all of @ 52 jinn says.. bottom line biden is no shining example
of purity, not that you were implying that either.. the whole usa political system is corrupt
beyond repair as i see it... i would like to be wrong too!
Posted by: c1ue | Oct 15 2020 16:10 utc | 2 What is really interesting is the provenance of
this proof: a water-damaged laptop dropped off at a repair shop, then never paid for nor
picked up.
I have to say that, while I don't believe Biden is innocent of *anything*, this provenance
reeks of Deep State intervention in support of Trump. OTOH, stranger things have happened in
IT repair. However, since my interest is limited - translation: who gives a shit? - I'll
leave it at that.
Re Twitter and Facebook. We know the CIA helped create Google in order to do the social
monitoring and control that the CIA can't do legally. Facebook ditto. Not sure about
Twitter's connection to the CIA, but, hey, I'm sure it's there, too.
As an aside, Twitter is having an outage right now. My guess is too many people are
posting about the Biden emails, so they shut it down for a bit. Or some hackers decided to
take them down for their censorship.
Anyone who imagines that these revelations will matter, just needs to read this thread where
responses of amerikans all seem to fit into three equally stupid categories.
The bulk of the responses don't objectively analyse what this cesspit of greed &
larceny means for their country, because the responses are first filtered through a really
fucking useless partisan subjectivity. When both 'parties' have identical policies,
thoroughly corrupt leadership and a primary aim of deceiving citizens WTF does this tribalist
support for a particular party indicate apart from exceptional stupidity on the part of the
partisan?
The people who consider themselves left of center, question, without any evidence at all
to support their delusion, the provenance of the emails, when the story appears to anyone
with half a brain to be both easily checkable and an entirely probable occurrence in a 2020
capitalist society.
Which brings me to the second and smallest 'cohort', the conspiracists, they not only
question the provenance of the info, they in time honoured fashion drag in their favourite
nemesis, the CIA, now as one who has seen all the truly foul shit that mob of criminals get
up to, I'm not averse to throwing shit at those arseholes, but trying to involve those pricks
in something so small-time and tacky as this is ludicrous, sheer fantasy.
It makes much more sense that the involvement of Devon Archer (a man not averse to trousering
a fat wedge) and by extremely distant connection Steven Kappes, was at the insistence of old
man Biden, who, far more knowledgeable about his son's predilections than anyone else, needed
someone close to the action with the contacts to ensure, that if hunter-baby slipped off the
rails, he could straighten things out and alert the old man.
The last group, the hee-haw "see I told you so, dems are all crooks" rightist types
celebrating this disgusting revelation as they view it through their own blinkered,
subjective & stupid rethug partisanship are the worst of all.
No amerikan should celebrate this, this should be a day of national shame - not just
because it shows biden to be a crook, but also because in recent days, orangeutan's son in
law Jared Kushner has been shown to have been perverting & corrupting
the covid 19 supply chain by using federal facilities to organise & obtain much needed
PPE, then inserting a few select private corporations he is acquainted with to step in
collect the PPE as it arrives in amerika (on federal government funded transport), then
triple (and more) the price as they sell the gear back to public health authorities.
There are no 'good guys' in any of this, both gangs are corrupt stinking low lifes, those
who complain about the lack of objective news then filter all 'news' through their own
subjective lens, are no less hypocritical than the types they claim to deplore.
What has the world come to when the NY Post has surpassed the NYT and WaPo as a
reliable news source.
The world will soon reach that level that was satirised in "Men In Black" when Agent K
(Tommy Lee Jones) advises Agent J (Will Smith) to read The National Enquirer (tabloid rag
famous even here in Australia for "Two women give birth to same baby"-type headlines if only
by hearsay) for "best investigative reporting on the planet".
the conspiracists, they not only question the provenance of the info, they in time
honoured fashion drag in their favourite nemesis, the CIA, ... but trying to involve those
pricks in something so small-time and tacky as this is ludicrous, sheer fantasy.
You are thinking that the info on the laptop is what's important instead of the timing of
a seemingly shocking reveal that will ultimately result in no prosecutions.
= It makes much more sense that the involvement of Devon Archer ... and by extremely
distant connection Steven Kappes, was at the insistence of old man Biden, who, ... needed
someone close to the action with the contacts to ensure, that if hunter-baby slipped off the
rails, he could straighten things out and alert the old man.
I really don't buy the excuse that you offer (nice try, tho). It strains credibility when
we can see that Biden is connected enough to what's going on without taking such
extraordinary measures. And Devon's involvement is better explained by his connection to John
Kerry while Kappes involvement is better explained by CIA's wanting some degree of
oversight.
= ... both gangs are corrupt stinking low lifes ...
There's only one gang. It runs the Duopoly and the media. And the Empire.
!!
p>
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As the furor over Twitter and Facebook's attempts to censor Wednesday morning's New York
Post bombshell intensifies, Rudy Giuliani, who was named as the source of the documents in the
NY Post story, just dropped a new video on Twitter where he outlines some of the alleged
transgressions of "the Biden Crime Family".
Earlier, the NYP
exposed never-before-publicized emails suggesting that Joe Biden's involvement with his
son's business endeavors was much more active than he led the world to believe.
In other words, if the emails are genuine (and nobody has offered any credible evidence yet
to suggest that they aren't) then it's clear the Biden lied about having never discussed
business with his son.
In a tweet, Giuliani confirmed that he has more material that has yet to see the light of
day, and teased the public that it would soon be made available on his website , which he said he launched to stop big
tech from censoring the story.
... Giuliani cited Iraq, what he said was the first example of this, outlining a scheme
involving a $1.5 billion contract and Biden's brother, James Biden.
The former NYC mayor continues: "The question is, why did Joe Biden lie about it? The New
York Post on its front page shows that Joe Biden has been lying about Burisma for 7 years,"
Giuliani added, again claiming that Biden "committed a crime".
Specifically, he named Hunter Biden, James Biden, Joe Biden and Sarah Biden, along with
other unnamed family members, as "the Biden Crime Family."
The "crime family" framing of course harkens back to the "Clinton Crime family", as well as
Giuliani's work as a prosecutor where he famously helped break the Mafia's stranglehold on the
underworld, and much of the legitimate business happening in the territories they
controlled.
Now, we can't help but wonder: will Giuliani drop the Hunter Biden sex tape
ZENDOG , 4 hours ago
Wake me when someone goes to jail.
Fiscal Reality , 2 hours ago
Barr: MIA
Durham: MIA
Horowitz: MIA
MSM: MIA and Covering up
CIA: Complicit
DNC: Complicit
FBI: Complicit
Ukraine: Partner
China: Partner
Obama: Partner
Hillary: Co-conspirator.
Outcome? Nothing. A big, fat, dripping NOTHING.
OpenEyes , 2 hours ago
It's all falling down. Crumbling right before their eyes three weeks before the election
that they were plotting to steal. This is just like when a dam gives way, slowly and then
suddenly. And, it involves more than just the corrupt Bidens. The chain is long and goes all
the way to the top. They are in the process of losing the election, and their reputations, in
the court of public opinion. Next comes the courts of law.
We haven't even gotten into the Durham investigation yet. Have you noticed how quiet
things have been over there? Not a single leak. That tells me that they have a serious case
and a tight team.
I am long popcorn, beer and orange jumpsuits.
Md4 , 3 hours ago
"The emails obtained from Hunter Biden's hard drive reveal Joe Biden lied about Burisma,
and more. Tonight I react and share a private text message that describes the ongoing schemes
by the Biden Crime Family."
And that's coming from Giuliani.
A former federal prosecutor of organized crime.
This guy... knows what he's talking about...
DaveClark5 , 3 hours ago
Crooks will be crooks. What is more disguising is the sheeple that vote for them. Our
founders said that the voters must have some kind of moral compass for there experiment to
work. It is now in the balance.
Lyman54 , 1 hour ago
Well we are still waiting for the Weiner laptop contents to be exposed. I suppose the
Biden laptop info will never see the light of day either.
Walter Melon , 3 hours ago
The old mafia prosecutors of the '70s and '80s would release a statement of something
like, "We have a high level mobster admitting to crimes on an audio recording. If you know
anything about this, please contact us."
And the rats would line up not knowing if it was them or someone else, to make their
deal.
Giuliani remembers this.
Let's see what rats show up this week.
Stormtrooper , 4 hours ago
If the purpose of these releases is to influence the election, forget about it. Demon-rats
aren't smart enough to put 2+2 together. The answer for them is 5. Or 10. Or 18. Whatever
fantasy answer they want it to be. They won't be influenced by irrefutable proof that Joe
Biden is dirty.
freakscene , 3 hours ago
They're not targeting "Democrats".
They're targeting those in the middle that are somehow undecided.
PT , 2 hours ago
Everything revealed in October can be safely forgotten. PizzaGate came out one week before
the election. Sure, I saw the spirit-cooking video, I saw the Podesta emails ... and then it
all magically disappeared. How horrific was the Anthony Weiner lap top? Sooooooooo horrific
that it could be forgotten for four years and counting.
January 2016, 147 FBI agents and then what happened? Looks like the year leading up to the
election (one quarter of all time) can be safely ignored too.
If they were going to trial then they would go to trial and the media releases would be
about the trial. No trial? Nothing is happening.
BaNNeD oN THe RuN , 4 hours ago
It's October... color me surprised.
ImTalkinfullCs , 1 hour ago
This is disqualifying......
bobroonie , 1 hour ago
Not in our Feudal society.
SmokeyBlonde , 43 minutes ago
This is a resume-enhancer for all D's and establishment R's, aka The Uniparty.
Yog Soggoth , 1 hour ago
I have been extremely critical of Guliani in the past, mostly 9/11 related, but his common
sense videos are just that, with excellent guests. NYC wishes they had Rudy back.
Saturn2001 , 1 hour ago
The problem is that the hardcore demonkrats and more importantly the press, will stifle
this whole set of facts and defend these lying/thieving creatures. We've seen it before. We
even have the likes of piggy noonan of the Wall Street Journal suggesting that electing Biden
would be a return to normal. Normal thieving, destroying deep state skum. They have done so
much harm to the United States and to the world.
Son of Loki , 1 hour ago
Trump has a way with words:
Donald Trump: 'The Bidens Got Rich While Americans Got Robbed'
The president cited the bombshell New York Post story uncovering emails sent from Vadym
Pozharskyi, an adviser to Ukrainian energy company Burisma, to Hunter Biden, thanking him for
helping arrange a meeting with his father.
Hunter Biden received between $50,000 and $83,000 a month from Burisma to sit on the
board.
"The Biden family treated the vice presidency as a for-profit corporation flying around
the globe collecting millions of dollars from China and Ukraine and Russia and other
countries," Trump said.
Yog Soggoth , 1 hour ago
They threatened to not give the money to Ukraine. That money was USAID money allocated by
vote from Congress taken from American taxpayers. Burisma got it's cut which laundered back
to Bidens. Many laws were broken.
philmannwright , 26 minutes ago
The funny part is that whatever Joe did for his kids, is likely NOTHING compared to the
hundreds of millions of dollars that Hillary took for access to herself, and that is only
what we know about during the Clinton Family's federal reign of self-enrichment from
1992-2016... never mind whitewater.
chemcounter , 2 hours ago
Trump needs to execute prosecution on Hillary. You see, these people get away with
enriching themselves and when they are caught, the opposition tries to hold it over their
heads to keep them inactive politically. Instead, they lay low and then come out later
executing well laid plans then use the reasoning that they must be innocent of all the
accusations or someone would have prosecuted. The people are sick of the obvious dual class
criminal justice system.
ByTony Cox, a US journalist who has written or edited for Bloomberg and
several major daily newspapers. If Big Tech's latest censorship fiasco – the
suppression of a New York Post scoop that might harm Joe Biden's presidential campaign –
doesn't spur Republicans to act, they may as well quit pretending to represent their
voters.
If even this isn't enough to trigger so-called conservatives to loosen Silicon Valley's
death grip on America's public marketplace of ideas, nothing will. All the talk about defending
free speech and fighting election interference will be exposed for the meaningless posturing
that it is, much like all those years of hearing Republicans campaign on stopping illegal
immigration, which they had no intention of doing.
In this case, however, the stakes are more personal for Republican politicians. This isn't
only about throwing their constituents under the bus and giving lip service about political
bias while taking donations from the likes of Google and Amazon. This time, the bus is about to
run over them and leave tread-marks on their former careers in Washington.
When the flow of news and information is controlled on political grounds to the extent it
was on Wednesday, it can only lead to irreversible one-party dominance. And here's a hint for
the likes of Representative Jim Jordan (R-Ohio): Google may give you money, but as the late
George Carlin said, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it." That one party's name will
start with a "D."
The Post article alleged that Biden's son, Hunter Biden, received an email in 2015 from an
executive at Ukrainian energy firm Burisma, thanking him for arranging a meeting with then-Vice
President Joe Biden. The alleged meeting with the executive, Vadym Pozharskyi, occurred about a
year after Hunter Biden joined Burisma's board at a reported salary of up to $50,000 a
month.
If the meeting was arranged by the younger Biden and took place as Pozharskyi said, it would
belie Joe Biden's previous statements that he had never spoken to his son about his overseas
business dealings.
The Biden campaign said no record of such a meeting appeared on the vice president's
"official schedules," but as Senator Josh Hawley (R-Missouri) pointed out, it didn't
deny the veracity of the emails on which the article was based.
Nevertheless, Facebook rushed to curtail the story's exposure. Company spokesman Andy Stone,
who previously worked for two Democrat lawmakers and two Democrat campaign groups, announced
that Facebook would reduce distribution of the article as part of a " standard process " to
reduce spreading of "misinformation" and might do a fact-check of the story. He didn't
say why the article was considered a misinformation threat.
The next shoe dropped with Twitter, which blocked its users from tweeting links to the story
or sending it in direct messages. Those who tried to spread the article got an error message
saying the message couldn't be sent because it was identified as "potentially
harmful."
Conservative observers, such as Toby Young, joked that the article was "potentially
harmful" only to Biden's campaign, but the damage was done. As in the case of Facebook,
Twitter didn't make a case for the article being false, but the company said that in addition
to concern over potential disinformation, the article was blocked "in line with our hacked
materials policy" and a lack of authoritative reporting on where the source material
originated.
The emails weren't hacked; rather, the Post said they were taken off a computer that Hunter
Biden left at a repair shop in Delaware. In any case, the various policy explanations were
excuses for censoring content that probably would have been gleefully allowed by social media
platforms if the article had instead said Donald Trump Jr. was selling access to the White
House.
Social-media giants are censoring the article because they favor Biden over Trump, and they
figure no one will stop them. Mainstream media outlets are cheering on the decision because
they, too, favor Biden and have no principles regarding free speech or good journalism. Before
Twitter did the job for him, MSNBC producer Kyle Griffin warned that no one should be linking
or sharing the Post article because they could discuss its flaws "without amplifying what
appears to be misinformation."
Like Facebook and Twitter, Griffin didn't need to explain how he knew the article was
disinformation. Nor did he show the least bit of self-awareness about the media's spreading of
disinformation over the past four years. Adam Jentleson, a staffer for former Senator Harry
Reid, even pretended to know that the article was not only disinformation, but also the work of
a "Russian propaganda campaign." Again, no explanation or facts needed.
Twitter also locked out the Post's account, as well as those of people who shared the story,
among them actor James Woods and White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany.
Conservative and independent commentators, such as Federalist co-founder Sean Davis and
journalist Glenn Greenwald, saw the obvious importance and implications of Wednesday's
censorship effort. Rarely is social media discussion as dominated by one topic as it was by the
reaction to the Biden story.
The danger is that all the talk just fades away and the debacle is chalked up as just
another example of anti-conservative censorship and bias. There will likely never be a better
poster child to expose Big Tech's criteria for which news gets covered up and which news gets
promoted: If it reflects poorly on Democrats, it's disinformation, and if it makes Republicans
(especially Trump) look bad, it's golden.
As conservative author Mike Cernovich pointed out, "the censorship Rubicon was
crossed." Unless the talk finally becomes action, there's no point in continuing the
conversation.
A year after Hunter Biden joined the board of Ukrainian energy firm Burisma in 2014, the
then-vice president's son's family connections apparently paid off – at least that's what
the latest materials obtained by the New York Post claim to show. In a 2015
email published on Wednesday, Burisma adviser Vadym Pozharskyi thanked Hunter for an
invitation to Washington, and for the "honor and pleasure" of meeting Joe Biden.
No details of the meeting are revealed, but a 2014 email between Pozharskyi reportedly shows
the Burisma executive asking Hunter for "advice on how you could use your influence" to
thwart a government investigation into the company, which hired him that year for a reported
monthly salary of $50,000, despite Hunter's lack of experience in the energy sector.
Joe Biden has repeatedly denied any knowledge of his son's foreign business dealings, and
has responded angrily when accused of peddling influence. Confronted by a voter at a town hall
event last December, the Democratic nominee called the voter a "damn liar" and
"fat." Pressed by President Donald Trump in last month's presidential debate, Biden
replied that his son "did nothing wrong" at Burisma, and Joe has insisted since last
year that he was uninvolved in Hunter's work.
The emails seem to tell a different story. They do not, however, provide any more evidence
that Hunter asked his father to have a Ukrainian prosecutor fired for investigating the firm,
as President Trump and his allies have repeatedly claimed.
Joe Biden himself has claimed responsibility for the firing though, telling the Council on
Foreign Relations in 2018 "I looked at them and said: I'm leaving in six hours. If the
prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money," referring to a billion-dollar Obama
administration aid package to Ukraine. "Well, son of a bitch," he quipped then, "he
got fired."
Biden's supporters in the media have insisted that the former VP was just one of many
international voices calling for the prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, to be fired for corruption, and
that Shokin's investigation into Burisma had gone "dormant." Shokin himself told
ABC News that he had six investigations into the company open at the time of his ouster.
Coming so close to next month's election, the timing of the New York Post's article has
raised some eyebrows. According to the Post, the emails came from a laptop handed in to a
repair shop in Delaware by an unnamed customer last April. When the store owner realized the
laptop contained Hunter Biden's emails and photos, he alerted federal authorities, who seized
it in December. However, the owner copied the hard drive's contents and gave them to Rudy
Giuliani, President Trump's lawyer.
Curiously, among the photos obtained by the Post is a bill for computer repair work made out
to "Hunter Biden," despite the store owner not knowing who the customer was.
Also among these photos are seemingly incriminating shots of Hunter asleep with what appears
to be a crack pipe in his mouth, and according to the Post, a video of Hunter smoking crack
while having sex with an "unidentified woman." Hunter Biden's struggle with drug
addiction is well documented, and he has been to rehab at least six times. Joe Biden has
claimed that he's overcome his addiction.
With just three weeks to go until the presidential election, Giuliani himself promised on
Wednesday that he had "much more to come." Asked by Los Angeles Times reporter Chris
Megerian what this might mean, Giuliani reportedly responded : "Print a
headline saying 'Lyin' Joe' and we can talk."
Joe Biden's campaign responded to the report later on
Wednesday, with spokesman Andrew Bates saying that "no meeting, as alleged by the New York
Post, ever took place." Bates did not, however, deny that the photo of Hunter with the
crack pipe in his mouth was genuine.
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Commenting publicly as
Nikolai
Bezroukov
The legal case was set in motion after a citizen filed a complaint against Zelensky for
delivering a speech in Russian at an IT-themed forum in Kiev in May 2019. The person asked the
Supreme Court to rule that Zelensky had broken the law by not using Ukrainian – the
country's sole official language, according to the constitution – while exercising his
presidential duties.
Zelensky is a native Russian-speaker, from the industrial city of Krivoy Rog, and like most
Ukrainians of his generation, outside of the West of the country, he would have had little
exposure to the native tongue as a child.
The court initially dismissed the claim, but an appeal was then launched. On Friday, the
Supreme Court's Grand Chamber ruled that "the president of Ukraine must use the state
language [Ukrainian] when carrying out his official duties."
However, the court clarified that the president is only subject to legal liability for
actions undertaken "when carrying out his constitutional duties." In other cases, it
only constitutes a "political" responsibility. The case was therefore closed, as "the
plaintiff's claims are not subject to consideration in the administrative procedure."
In 2019, the parliament adopted a bill that made the use of Ukrainian mandatory by state
officials and in the public sphere. The bill was signed into law by the outgoing president,
Petro Poroshenko, when Zelensky was still president-elect. At the time, many observers felt
Poroshenko made the move to make life difficult for the incoming leader, given his preference
for the use of Russian.
Former Secretary of State John Kerry falsely claimed in 2019 that he had no knowledge of Hunter Biden's role on the board of Burisma
Holdings, Inc., according to the Senate report on Biden's financial dealings released on Wednesday.
Kerry was asked by a reporter from NBC News on December 8, 2019, whether he knew of Hunter Biden's activities during his tenure
as secretary of state in the Obama administration from 2013-2017. Biden From 2014-2019 held a seat on the board of Burisma, a Ukrainian
natural gas company whose former head and founder Mykola Zlochevsky is suspected of bribery and various other crimes. (Zlochevsky's
whereabouts are currently unknown.)
Vice president Joe Biden led the Obama administration's Ukraine policy after Russia's 2014 annexation of the Crimean peninsula
and subsequent war in eastern Ukraine. Hunter Biden's position at Burisma led American officials to worry about the appearance of
a conflict of interest in their Ukraine policy.
" I had no knowledge about any of that. None. No," Kerry told the reporter regarding Biden's position on the Burisma board. "What
would I know about any -- no. Why would I know about any company or any individual? No."
However, Kerry's former chief of staff David Wade testified to the Senate Homeland Security Committee that he informed Kerry personally
of Biden's role at Burisma. Wade received an email on May 13, 2014, from Kerry's stepson, Chris Heinz, telling him that Hunter Biden
and associate Devon Archer had joined Burisma.
Additionally, former Kerry adviser David Thorne told Wade on May 14, 2014, that he had forwarded news articles on Hunter Biden's
Burisma position directly to Kerry himself, according to emails uncovered by the Senate committee. The emails included links to serveral
articles, including one titled "White House says no issue with Biden's son, Ukraine gas company."
Senator Lindsey Graham has invited Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's private attorney, to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee
regarding alleged corruption in Ukraine.
Graham wrote on Twitter Tuesday that after hearing about "the many improprieties surrounding the firing of former [Ukrainian]
Prosecutor General Victor Shokin," he would give Giuliani "the opportunity to come before the Senate Judiciary Committee to inform
the committee of his concerns."
Giuliani has repeatedly alleged that former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden were involved in corrupt practices
in Ukraine.
Hunter Biden sat on the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company from 2014 to 2019. The company, Burisma Holdings, was the subject
of a corruption probe led by Shokin, who was then prosecutor general of Ukraine.
In 2016, Joe Biden pressured Ukraine to fire Shokin at the urging of U.S. and European Union officials, who agreed that Shokin
was himself engaged in corrupt practices.
Graham had initially refused to take any action in the Senate regarding Hunter Biden's dealings in Ukraine, saying earlier this
month, "I want somebody to look at the conflict of interest outside of politics."
Graham's offer to Giuliani could set up a conflict between the Senate and House of Representatives, the latter of which has summoned
numerous Trump administration officials to answer questions regarding the impeachment probe.
"The Treasury records acquired by the Chairmen show potential criminal activity relating to
transactions among and between Hunter Biden, his family, and his associates with Ukrainian,
Russian, Kazakh and Chinese nationals," the report reads. "In particular, these documents show
that Hunter Biden received millions of dollars from foreign sources as a result of business
relationships that he built during the period when his father was vice president of the United
States and after."
That Hunter Biden served on the board of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings while
his father was leading the Obama administration's efforts in Ukraine is well-established, but
the $50,000-per-month board seat was just one component of the younger Biden's foreign ventures
during the Obama years. According to Treasury Department records obtained by the committee, he
also pursued business dealings with politically-connected Russian, Chinese, and Kazakh
nationals.
In the course of his globe-trotting business career, Hunter Biden racked up more than $4
million in "questionable financial transactions" with well-connected foreigners. He partnered
with Chinese businessmen connected to the Chinese Communist Party and the People's Liberation
Army, he took cash from the wife of the corrupt former mayor of Moscow, and he sent funds to
Ukrainian and Russian nationals living in the U.S. that are "linked to what 'appears to be an
Eastern European prostitution or human trafficking ring,'" according to the report.
But it was only Hunter's work for Burisma that caught the attention of Obama administration
State Department officials, who said the role created "counterintelligence and extortion
concerns."
Acting Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv, Ukraine, George Kent warned Vice
President Joe Biden's office in early 2015 that Hunter's work for Burisma undermined the
administrations' anti-corruption efforts in the country, since the gas company's owner Mykola
Zlochevsky, who Kent described as an "odious oligarch" in his testimony, is famously
corrupt.
"Furthermore, the presence of Hunter Biden on the Burisma board was very awkward for all
U.S. officials pushing an anticorruption agenda in Ukraine," Kent wrote in an email to his
colleagues in 2016.
Kent told Joe Biden's staff that "someone needed to talk to Hunter Biden, and he should
[step] down from the board of Burisma," according to the report. But it doesn't appear Kent's
request was carried out, since Hunter remained on the board throughout the rest of Obama's
term.
U.S. Special Envoy and Coordinator for International Energy Affairs Amos Hochstein also
raised concerns about Hunter's work for Burisma with the vice president. But his complaints
went unaddressed, according to the report.
"This investigation has illustrated the extent to which officials within the Obama
administration ignored the glaring warning signs when the vice president's son joined the board
of a company owned by a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch," the report's executive summary stated.
While concerns over Hunter's business dealings in Ukraine didn't prompt any decisive action
from the administration, they did reach the desk of Secretary of State John Kerry,
contradicting his later claim that he was never aware that Hunter served on the Burisma
board.
The day after Hunter joined the Burisma board in May 2014, Kerry's stepson Christopher
Heinz, who was a business partner of Hunter's, emailed his father to inform him of Hunter's
appointment to the board and to distance himself from the decision. Kerry's staff followed up
with a briefing on the press inquiries prompted by Hunter's board seat, according to their
testimony before the committees.
Neither Kerry nor anyone else in the administration appears to have intervened to put a stop
to the younger Biden's influence peddling.
When asked by a reporter in 2019 whether he had any knowledge of Hunter's work for Burisma,
Kerry responded "I had no knowledge about any of that. None. No."
Russia
Hunter Biden and his business partner Devon Archer joined with Heinz in 2009 to form the
investment firm Rosemont Seneca. They then spun off a number of shell companies to accept funds
from wealthy and politically-connected clients willing to pay for their "corporate and
governmental affairs" expertise.
One such client was Elena Baturina, wife of former Moscow mayor Yuri Luzhkov, who was fired
in 2010 by then-Russian president Dmitry Medvedev over corruption allegations. Baturina became
Russia's first female billionaire after her plastics company received a number of lucrative
public contracts with the city of Moscow while her husband was mayor.
"Luzhkov used his position as mayor to approve over 20 real estate projects that were built
by a Baturina-owned construction company and ultimately generated multibillion-ruble profits
for his family," according to the report.
In February 2014, Baturina wired $3.5 million as part of a "consultancy agreement" to
Rosemont Seneca Thornton LLC -- a consortium consisting of Biden and Archer's Rosemont Seneca
and a Massachusetts-based company with offices in Beijing known as Thornton LLC.
Then, between May and December 2015 Baturina wired another $391,968.21 to an account linked
to a company called BAK USA, a Buffalo, N.Y., based start up that manufactured tablet computers
with the backing of unidentified Chinese investors. The majority of that nearly $400,000,
totaling $241,797.14, flowed through the Rosemont Seneca Thornton account before arriving in
the BAK USA account.
Kazakhstan
On April 22, 2014, as Joe Biden joined Prime Minister Arsemy Yasenyuk in Kyiv to speak with
Ukrainian lawmakers about the recent Russian aggression in Crimea, a holding company owned by
the son-in-law of a prominent Khazak politician wired Archer $142,300 through yet another shell
company, Rosemont Seneca Bohai. A currency report obtained by the committee states that the
payment was "For a Car."
The holding company that purchased Archer a car is owned solely by Kenges Rakishev, the
son-in-law of Imangali Tasmagambetov, who was then serving as the mayor of Kazakhstan's capital
city, Astana. Tasmagambetov, who himself previously served as prime minister of Kazakhstan, was
reportedly a close confidant of then Kazahk president Nursultan Nazarbayev. It is unclear why,
exactly, Archer was purchased a car, but Kazakhstan was in flux politically at the time due to
dissension over how to respond to Russia's provocation in Ukraine.
"Given Rakishev's close connection to political leadership in Kazakhstan, the tense
political situation, Hunter Biden's longstanding relationship with Archer and involvement in
transactions with Rosemont Seneca Bohai, and the fact that the payment was timed perfectly with
Vice President Biden's visit to Kyiv to discuss U.S. sanctions against Russia for the invasion
of Crimea, the April 22, 2014 payment from Rakishev to Rosemont Seneca Bohai raises serious
questions," the report reads.
China
In order to sell their consulting services in China, Biden and Archer partnered with a
Boston-based firm known as Thornton LLC. The firm advertises itself as "a cross-border capital
intermediary" and counts a number of state-owned Chinese businesses among its clients,
according to its website.
Through Thornton LLC, Hunter Biden and Archer formed business relationships with a number of
wealth Chinese nationals who have connections the CCP and the People's Liberation Army.
Many of Hunter Biden's Chinese dealings flowed through Ye Jianming, the founder of CEFC
China Energy Co. Ltd, a Chinese energy company that reported in excess of $33 billion in
revenue in 2013. The company was acquired by the state in 2017 but even before that it "hired a
number of former top officials from state owned energy companies" and had "layers of Communist
Party committees across its subsidiaries -- more than at many private Chinese companies,"
according to Reuters.
Through Jianming's company, Hunter Biden was introduced to the CCP elite and those
businessmen who operate with their blessing.
Pictures from an April 2010 event in China posted by the Thornton Group show Biden standing
alongside the general manager of the China Investment Corporation, the vice president of the
China Life Asset Management Company, the general manager of the Postal Savings Bank, among
other Chinese business tycoons.
Hunter Biden and Archer capitalized on those connections some two years later by partnering
with Jonathan Li the CEO of the Chinese investment firm Bohai Capital, to form BHR, an
investment firm specializing in connecting wealthy Chinese investors, and state entities, with
overseas business opportunities. The Chinese government's postal savings bank, its main
development bank, and The Bank of China all invested in BHR. Months before the investors signed
the documents committing to the fund, Hunter arranged for his father to meet Li briefly in the
lobby of a Beijing hotel they were staying in after flying to China on Air Force II.
Hunter initially joined the BHR board in an unsalaried capacity but ultimately acquired a 10
percent stake in the company in 2017.
Ye's relationships were not confined to China's business elite, he also had extensive
connections to high-ranking members of the People's Liberation Army, including one of the
country's leading propagandists, Wang Shu, the CEO of the China Huayi Broadcasting. While Ye
was rubbing shoulders with Beijing's elite, Hunter was busy trying to solicit American
investment in his firm.
A subsidiary of Ye's company wired $100,000 to Biden's law firm, Owasco, in August 2017.
And, one month later, on the day that Ye's firm announced it would acquire a $9.1 billion deal
in the Russian oil company Rosneft, Hunter filed for a $100,000 line of credit with one of Ye's
business partners. Hunter, his uncle James, and James's wife Sarah were all authorized as
credit card users on the account. The foursome went on a spending spree, buying airline
tickets, stays at expensive hotels, and meals at top restaurants.
Ye's company would eventually funnel $4.8 million to Biden's law firm over the following
year.
Joe Biden's spokesman, Andrew Bates, suggested the entire investigation was a partisan
distraction in response to the report.
"As the coronavirus death toll climbs and Wisconsinites struggle with joblessness, Ron
Johnson has wasted months diverting the Senate Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs
Committee away from any oversight of the catastrophically botched federal response to the
pandemic, a threat Sen. Johnson has dismissed by saying that 'death is an unavoidable part of
life.' Why? To subsidize a foreign attack against the sovereignty of our elections with
taxpayer dollars -- an attack founded on a long-disproven, hardcore rightwing conspiracy theory
that hinges on Sen. Johnson himself being corrupt and that the Senator has now explicitly
stated he is attempting to exploit to bail out Donald Trump's re-election campaign," Bates said
in a statement Wednesday.
Republican Senator Mitt Romney expressed a similar sentiment before the report came out,
calling the investigation a "political exercise" that fell outside the "legitimate role of
government."
231 Homeland Security Committee chairman Ron Johnson, (R., Wis.), and Finance Committee
chairman Chuck Grassley, (R., Iowa), said they "faced many obstacles" in their probe and added
that "there remains much work to be done."
18 September 2020 07:55 The Russian Embassy has demanded clarification from the United States about an NBC
report
The Russian Embassy in Washington has demanded an explanation from the US authorities
about an NBC TV report, which mentions US support for "Ukrainian units" in the
Crimea.
This has been reported in social networks on the official page of the diplomatic
mission.
In American journalists' material, it was said that the United States was arming
certain groups that were acting against Russian forces in the Crimea.
The point that the embassy is emphasizing is that Washington is supporting the
activities of terrorists in Russia. Diplomats admit that the channel may be wrong, but demand
that the United States clarify whether they are involved in organizing terrorist attacks
against the residents of Crimea.
Ukrainian units fighting Russian occupying forces in the Crimea?
For the liberation of Crimeans living under the yoke of post-Soviet Russian
imperialism?
"... This fully contradicts the sequence of events outlined in the Minsk agreements whereby restoring Ukrainian armed forces' control on the border with Russia is possible only after an amnesty, agreeing on the special status of these territories, making this status part of the Ukrainian Constitution and holding elections there. Now they propose giving back the part of Donbass that "rebelled" against the anti-constitutional coup to those who declared these people terrorists and launched an "anti-terrorist operation" against them, ..."
"... On the contrary, Alexander Turchinov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and others like them attacked these areas. The guilt of the people living there was solely in them saying, "You committed a crime against the state, we do not want to follow your rules, let us figure out our own future and see what you will do next." There's not a single example that would corroborate the fact that they engaged in terrorism. It was the Ukrainian state that engaged in terrorism on their territory, in particular, when they killed [Head of the Donetsk People's Republic] Alexander Zakharchenko and a number of field commanders in Donbass. So, I am not optimistic about this. ..."
Question: Here I am listening to you and wondering how many people care about this? Why is
it that no one understands this? Is this politics that is too far away from ordinary people who
are nevertheless behind it? Take Georgia or Ukraine. People are worse off now than before, and
despite this, this policy continues.
Will the Minsk agreements ever be implemented? Will the situation in southeastern Ukraine
ever be settled?
Returning to what we talked about. How independent is Ukraine in its foreign policy?
Sergey Lavrov: I don't think that under the current Ukrainian government, just like under
the previous president, we will see any progress in the implementation of the Minsk agreements,
if only because President Zelensky himself is saying so publicly, as does Deputy Prime Minister
Reznikov who is in charge of the Ukrainian settlement in the Contact Group. Foreign Minister of
Ukraine Kuleba is also saying this. They say there's a need for the Minsk agreements and they
cannot be broken, because these agreements (and accusing Russia of non-compliance) are the
foundation of the EU and the US policy in seeking to maintain the sanctions on Russia.
Nevertheless, such a distorted interpretation of the essence of the Minsk agreements, or rather
an attempt to blame everything on Russia, although Russia is never mentioned there, has stuck
in the minds of our European colleagues, including France and Germany, who, being co-sponsors
of the Minsk agreements along with us, the Ukrainians and Donbass, cannot but realise that the
Ukrainians are simply distorting their responsibilities, trying to distance themselves from
them and impose a different interpretation of the Minsk agreements. But even in this scenario,
the above individuals and former Ukrainian President Kravchuk, who now heads the Ukrainian
delegation to the Contact Group as part of the Minsk process, claim that the Minsk agreements
in their present form are impracticable and must be revised, turned upside down. Also, Donbass
must submit to the Ukrainian government and army before even thinking about conducting reforms
in this part of Ukraine.
This fully contradicts the sequence of events outlined in the Minsk agreements whereby
restoring Ukrainian armed forces' control on the border with Russia is possible only after an
amnesty, agreeing on the special status of these territories, making this status part of the
Ukrainian Constitution and holding elections there. Now they propose giving back the part of
Donbass that "rebelled" against the anti-constitutional coup to those who declared these people
terrorists and launched an "anti-terrorist operation" against them, which they later
renamed a Joint Forces Operation (but this does not change the idea behind it), and whom they
still consider terrorists. Although everyone remembers perfectly well that in 2014 no one from
Donbass or other parts of Ukraine that rejected the anti-constitutional coup attacked the
putschists and the areas that immediately fell under the control of the politicians behind the
coup. On the contrary, Alexander Turchinov, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and others like them attacked
these areas. The guilt of the people living there was solely in them saying, "You committed a
crime against the state, we do not want to follow your rules, let us figure out our own future
and see what you will do next." There's not a single example that would corroborate the fact
that they engaged in terrorism. It was the Ukrainian state that engaged in terrorism on their
territory, in particular, when they killed [Head of the Donetsk People's Republic] Alexander
Zakharchenko and a number of field commanders in Donbass. So, I am not optimistic about
this.
Question: So, we are looking at a dead end?
Sergey Lavrov: You know, we still have an undeniable argument which is the text of the Minsk
Agreements approved by the UN Security Council.
Question: But they tried to revise it?
Sergey Lavrov: No, they are just making statements to that effect. When they gather for a
Contact Group meeting in Minsk, they do their best to look constructive. The most recent
meeting ran into the Ukrainian delegation's attempts to pretend that nothing had happened. They
recently passed a law on local elections which will be held in a couple of months. It says that
elections in what are now called the Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics will be held only
after the Ukrainian army takes control of the entire border and those who "committed criminal
offenses" are arrested and brought to justice even though the Minsk agreements provide for
amnesty without exemptions.
Question: When I'm asked about Crimea I recall the referendum. I was there at a closed
meeting in Davos that was attended by fairly well respected analysts from the US. They claimed
with absolute confidence that Crimea was being occupied. I reminded them about the referendum.
I was under the impression that these people either didn't want to see or didn't know how
people lived there, that they have made their choice. Returning to the previous question, I
think that nobody is interested in the opinion of the people.
Sergey Lavrov: No, honest politicians still exist. Many politicians, including European
ones, were in Crimea during the referendum. They were there not under the umbrella of some
international organisation but on their own because the OSCE and other international agencies
were controlled by our Western colleagues. Even if we had addressed them, the procedure for
coordinating the monitoring would have never ended.
"... The former Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the UAF Yury Dumansky stated on the air of the " NewsOne " TV channel that Kiev is guided by the decisions of the US concerning the question of resolving the conflict in Donbass ..."
Translated by Ollie Richardson & Angelina Siard21:40:3211/04/2018ria.ru
The former Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the UAF Yury Dumansky stated on the air of the "
NewsOne " TV channel
that Kiev is guided by the decisions of the US concerning the question of resolving the
conflict in Donbass.
The demands of the President Petro Poroshenko concerning the deployment of UN peacekeepers
in the east of the country will directly be agreed with the special representative of the US
State Department for Ukraine Kurt Volker , stressed Dumansky.
"We are in the conditions of the negotiation process. Not we, Ukraine, but a third
external player who presents America – Volker – decides for us. And he solves the
problem with the Russian Federation at the level of negotiations," noted the
Lieutenant-General.
And it is only after, according to the military, that Poroshenko undertakes measures
coordinated with the US for the solving of the conflict in Donbass.
"And then the corresponding processes are launched -- what we observe directly -- the
president's trips to Turkey, Germany where one of the questions concerning solving this
conflict are being raised," noted Dumansky.
Kiev in April, 2014, started a military operation against the self-proclaimed LPR and the
DPR, which declared their independence after a coup d'etat in Ukraine.
The issue of solving the situation in Donbass is discussed also during contact group
meetings in Minsk, which since September, 2014, adopted already three documents regulating
steps to de-escalate the conflict. However, firefights between the parties of the conflict
still continue.
Now the Ukrainian authorities try to obtain the introduction of UN peacekeepers in the East
of Ukraine. According to Kiev, "blue helmets" should be deployed on all the territory of
Donbass up to the border with Russia.
Vladimir Putin supported the idea of sending a peacekeeping mission to the East of Ukraine.
However, according to him, their task includes only ensuring the security of OSCE staff, and
they have to be based on the contact line.
...while every country is different, the signposts tend to be the same. It is worth
attending to the characteristics he describes. They should sound familiar:
In a weak state , basic services such as education and health are privatized;
public facilities decline. Infrastructure, including schools and hospitals, shows signs of
neglect, particularly outside of major cities. Journalists and civil society activists are
harassed. Tensions among ethnic, religious, or linguistic groups increase, but widespread
violence does not erupt -- yet.
In a failing state , a single leader gains control of the legislature, law
enforcement, and the judiciary. The leader and his cronies are enriched while ordinary
citizens are left without basic services.
In a failed state , living standards deteriorate rapidly. Citizens feel they
exist only to satisfy the ruler's greed and lust for power. The potential for violence
increases as the state's legitimacy crumbles.
Finally, in a collapsed state , warlords run the country. The market rules to
the exclusion of any other concerns, while the social compact has been completely eroded.
"The Id is unleashed."
...Rotberg points out that widespread violence, one of the key markers of a failed state, is
not in evidence. But as John Comaroff noted, the soft coup of finance can make violence
redundant. Rotberg is one of the more conservative voices on state failure, so I was surprised
when I asked about the consequences of a second Trump term. He simply said: "Move."
... America's polarization is as much psychological as political, Rauch wrote in
National Affairs , echoing John Comaroff's recognition of tribalism as intrinsic to
human society. Rauch calls America's polarization neither "ideological or even rational," but
deep and atavistic, a sign of the human need for group identity in a fragmented world.
"Rebuilding institutions -- and, just as important, noticing and valuing them -- is more
important for containing tribalism than pretty much anything that public policy could do," he
writes. "And two institutions in particular deserve strengthening: the Republican Party and the
Democratic Party."
... With the executive branch cratering and the legislature limping along, citizens seek
recourse from the courts -- a trend Comaroff calls "lawfare" -- or become beggars, relying on
the whims of billionaires. Neither are a substitute for good government. Start with the courts:
since the Reagan years, the pro-business Federalist Society has been stacking the courts, so
increasingly these, too, reflect that new system of finance über alles .
... Surprisingly, few have pointed out the parallels to the United States. In the 1980s,
Ronald Reagan's cowboy anti-communism made institutions the enemy, whether government
bureaucracies or labor unions. Libertarianism here means freedom for corporations and slavery
for everyone else. James Carville's famous dictum on winning elections can be repurposed: it's
corruption, stupid.
If American frontier culture is the disease, it may yet hold the cure. Among the
self-described political realists, conservative Jospeh Postell's remedies sound the most
realistic: grassroots organizing and restoring the power of local government to dispense
largesse. In Texas, Beto O'Rourke has been pouring time and resources into just the kind of
organizing Postell talks about, a test case that should be watched. The next few years will
likely tell us if the old remedies work or if the restoration of America's civil society needs
something that goes beyond electoral politics. The worst-case scenario? Politics as we know it
may be irrelevant.
... "The United States is a state that is a partially owned commodity of the corporate
sector. If that's the definition of a failed state, we are. The state has become analogous to
McDonald's. It's a franchise." And what better leader for a nation reduced to a franchise than
a puffed up, golf-playing billionaire whose wealth comes in large part from licensing his name?
Perhaps, as some scholars are suggesting, the new world order won't be countries at all, but
vast trading cities in a sea of ungoverned spaces.
... In his taxonomy of state failure, Rotberg uses a telling phrase to mark the state's
decline: losing "the mandate of heaven." This expression, once invoked to describe the divine
source of authority for China's rulers, invokes a crisis that is both individual and collective
and more powerful for that dual nature.\
... The failure of a state shakes people to their foundations. Downward mobility has bred a
hopelessness that's sent rates of suicide and alcoholism skyrocketing.
... Even now, America is more like Sierra Leone than we care to admit, disunited and
conflicted, our spirits eaten by cynicism. No longer asking what we can do for our country, the
old martial definition of the state has given way to the description of war-torn Sierra Leone
by London School of Economics professor David Keen: "a war where one avoids battles but picks
on unarmed civilians and perhaps eventually acquires a Mercedes may make more sense . . .
[than] risking death in the name of the nation-state with little or no prospect of significant
financial gain."
Susan Zakin is the editor ofJournal of the Plague Year. She is the
author of several books, including Coyotes and Town Dogs: Earth First! and the Environmental
Movement and Waiting for Charlie. More of her writing can be found atwww.susanzakin.com.
On July 21 st , Ukrainian businessman and politician David Zhvania revealed some
open secrets of the Ukrainian politics, including crimes that former Ukrainian President Petro
Poroshenko had carried out. The irony of the situation is that Zhvania was, at one point, the
leader of Poroshenko's campaign headquarters.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/JChtKpaulOs
He said that Euromaidan was ruled by criminal groups led by the people who were leading the
parties that came into power following the coup – the BPP (Bloc of Petro Poroshenko) and
the National Front.
He also said that he had participated in giving multimillion-dollar bribes to European
officials in exchange for their support to Poroshenko's election as president.
The former member of Ukrainian parliament, in his video message, said that Ukraine is
threatened with a new coming to power of Poroshenko.
"A creeping revenge is taking place in the country – Zelensky's rating falls, and
Poroshenko and his entourage are again striving for power. I cannot look at it calmly, so I
decided to give this press conference. Warn the citizens of Ukraine not to make a mistake. Tell
everyone. who is Poroshenko and his entourage.
This is a criminal group that from the very beginning participated in the Maidan solely for
the sake of seizing power and personal enrichment," Zhvania said.
He said that following the 2014 Maidan, an organized criminal group took power in Ukraine,
and he admitted that he was part of it.
According to Zhvania, it was this criminal group that financed the protests and thwarted any
options for agreements with the authorities (the Yanukovich government), which were designed to
avoid escalation.
"I was also a member of the organized criminal group, which seized power in 2014 on the wave
of popular protests. We financed the Maidan, we fueled protest moods in the media, thwarted the
government's peace initiatives, conducted separate negotiations with deputies of the Party of
Regions, and negotiated with foreign embassies.
The organized criminal group included Martynenko, Poroshenko, Turchynov, Yatsenyuk,
Klitschko. Each of whom has attached its own group. Turchinov, for example, brought Pashinsky
and Parubiy," Zhvania said and added that he was ready to testify on this matter.
After the coup victory, Zhvania's group engaged in political corruption to secure the
presidency for Poroshenko.
"I and Klimkin (note: Klimkin later became the foreign minister) directly participated in
the transfer of 5 million euros through the Ukrainian Embassy in Germany for one high-ranking
European official at that time in order to ensure support for Poroshenko as a candidate for the
presidency of Ukraine from the EU. I am ready to provide the circumstances of this to the
investigating authorities," Zhvania claimed.
In his opinion, Poroshenko became president as a result of the consensus of the oligarchs.
And he took on certain obligations to them, which in most cases he carried out.
According to Zhvania, during his tenure as president, Poroshenko acquired approximately $3.4
billion in bribes.
The former politician hoped that President Zelensky "will have enough political will to
bring the case of Poroshenko and his entourage to an end."
"Poroshenko today, on the eve of local elections, may try to run for mayor. Before Maidan,
it was his dream – he humiliatingly begged Yanukovych for the right to run for mayor of
Kiev, was ready to give a bribe for this. Yanukovych did not allow, and Poroshenko did not dare
to disobey," Zhvania said and promised to reveal more in the following weeks.
The Euromaidan in 2014 was not a spontaneous protest, but was financed by political
circles to overthrow Yanukovych.
Any peace initiatives were thwarted by a group that included Martynenko, Poroshenko,
Turchynov, Yatsenyuk and Klitschko.
Zhvania and Klimkin gave 5 million euros in bribes to a European official to lobby for
Poroshenko's interests as a presidential candidate in 2014.
David Zhvania is a well-known Ukrainian businessman from Georgia. Long-term business partner
of the deputy of several iterations of Parliament Nikolay Martynenko.
Zhvania was also a member in four different Ukrainian parliament configurations. In 2004, he
was an ally of Yushchenko, was a member of the Our Ukraine bloc, and took part in the Orange
Revolution. In 2005, he served as Minister of Emergency Situations in the government of Yulia
Tymoshenko.
In 2006 he went to the Verkhovna Rada from "Our Ukraine" and Yushchenko, but he had a
falling out with him.
In 2010, he became friends with the Yanukovych team.
In the 2012 elections, he entered parliament as a self-nominated and non-partisan candidate
in 140 constituencies. He was a member of the Party of Regions faction, but left it in 2013
when the Revolution of Dignity began.
In the 2014 elections, he was one of the heads of the electoral headquarters of the Petro
Poroshenko Bloc. People's Deputy Aleksandr Onishchenko stated that he transferred money to
Zhvania for a seat in the parliament of the 8th convocation.
Yes, the Ukraine. Again. This insanity which began with the Euromaidan has not stopped, far
from it. In fact, ever since the election of Zelenskii the Ukraine has become something of a
madhouse which would be outright hilariously comical if it wasn't also so tragic and even
horrible for millions of Ukrainians. I will spare you all the details, but we can sum up the
main development of the past months as "Zelenskii has completely lost control of the country".
But that would not even begin to cover the reality of this situation.
For one thing, the war of words between Trump and Biden over the Ukraine-gate has now
"infected" the Ukrainian political scene and each side is now busy with what is known locally
as "black PR": trying to dig up as much dirt against your opponent as possible. Zelenskii is so
weak that, amazingly, the previously almost totally discredited Poroshenko has now made a
strong comeback and thereby acquired the support of a lot of influential nationalists. The
latest incredible (but true!) "informational bomb" was set off by a member of the Ukrainian
Rada, Andrei Derkach, who released a recording of Joe Biden and Poroshenko discussing the pros
and cons of organizing a terrorist attack in Crimea (
see here for details about this amazing story). This makes both Biden and Poroshenko
"sponsors of terrorism" (hardly a surprise, but still). Other "juicy" news stories about the
Nazi-occupied Banderastan include Zelenskii possibly fathering a kid with an aide and the
brutal attacks on the members of a small (but growing) "Sharii" opposition party which the
authorities not only ignored, but most likely ordered in the first place. It is not my purpose
here to discuss all the toxic intricacies of internal Ukronazi politics, so I will only look at
one of the major dangers resulting from this dynamic: there is talk of war with Russia
again.
Okay, we have all heard the very same rumors for years now, and yet no real and sustained
Ukrainian attack on the LDNR or, even less so, Crimea ever took place (there were constant
artillery strikes and diversionary attacks, but those remain below the threshold of open
warfare). But what we hear today is a little bit different: an increasing number of Ukrainian
and even Polish observers have declared that Russia would attack this summer or in September,
possibly using military maneuvers to move forces to the Ukrainian border and attack. Depending
on whom you ask, such an attack could come from Belarus and/or from central Russia – some
even worry about a Russian amphibious operation against the Ukrainian coastline and cities like
Mariupol, Nikolaev, Kherson or Odessa.
The Ukronazis are truly amazing. First they cut off all the electricity and even water from
Crimea, and then they declare that Russia will have to invade to retake control of the water
supply. The notion that Russia will solve Crimea's water problem by peaceful and technological
means is, apparently, quite unthinkable for the Ukronazi leaders. In the real world, however,
Russia has a comprehensive program to comprehensively solve Crimea's water problems. This
program has begun by laying down water pipes, improving of the irrigation system of Crimea, the
use of special aircraft to trigger rain and might even include the creation of a desalination
plant. The simple truth is that Russia can easily make Crimea completely independent from
anything Ukrainian.
And just to make things worse, the head of the Ukrainian Navy (which exists on paper mostly)
has now declared that a new Ukrainian missile, the Neptune , could reach as far
as Sevastopol. The problem is not the missile itself (
it is a modernized version of an old Soviet design , and it is slow and therefore easy
to shoot down), but the kind of "mental background noise" that this kind of talk of war
creates.
From a purely military point of view, Russia does not even have to move any troops to defeat
the Ukrainian armed forces: all Russia needs to do is to use its powerful long-range stand-off
weapons and reconnaissance-strike complexes to first decapitate, then disorganize and finally
destroy the Ukrainian military. Russia's superiority in the air, on the water and on land is
such that the Ukrainians don't have a chance in hell to survive such an attack, nevermind
defeating Russia. The Ukrainians all know that since, after all, their entire military could
not even deal with the (comparatively) minuscule and infinitely weaker LDNR forces (at least
when compared to regular Russian forces).
Still, the Ukrainians have one advantage over Russia: while this would be extremely
dangerous to try, they must realize that, unlike in the case of their attacks on the Donbass,
should they dare to attack Crimea, President Putin would not have any other option than to
order a retaliatory strike of some sort. Any Ukrainian attack or strike on Crimea would
probably fail with all the missiles intercepted long before they could reach their targets, but
even in this case the pressure on Putin to put an end to this would be huge. Which means that
it would not be incorrect to say that whoever is in power in Kiev can force Russia to openly
intervene. This means that in this specific case the weaker side can have at least some degree
of escalation dominance.
Now the Ukraine definitely cannot achieve strategic surprise and is even most unlikely to
achieve tactical surprise, but, again, the actual success of any Ukrainian strike on Crimea
does not require the designated targets of the strike to be destroyed: all that would be
needed, in some plans at least, is the ability to do two things:
Finally, I would suggest that we look at this issue from the point of view of the
AngloZionist Empire: in many, if not most, ways, the Banderastan the West created in the
Ukraine has outlived its utility: the USN won't get a base in Crimea which is now lost forever
(it is now one of the best defended places on the planet), Russia has not openly intervened in
the civil war, the Ukronazi forces were comprehensively trounced by the Novorussians and in
economic terms, and the Ukraine is nothing but one big black hole with an ever growing event
horizon. Which might suggest to some in the US ruling elites that to trigger a losing war
against Russia might be the best (and, possibly, only) thing their ugly creation could do for
them. Why?
Well, for one thing, such a war will be bloody, even if it is short. Second, since the
Russians are exceedingly unlikely to want to occupy any part of what is today the Nazi-occupied
Ukraine, this means that even a total military defeat would not necessarily result in a
complete disappearance of the current Banderastan. Yes, more regions in the East and the South
might try to use this opportunity to rise up and liberate themselves, and should that happen
Russia might offer the kind of help she offered the Novorussians, but I don't think that
anybody seriously believes that Russian tanks will be seen on Kiev or, even less so, Lvov
(nevermind Warsaw or Riga). So a military loss against Russia would not be a total loss for
Banderastan and it might even yield some beneficial dynamics to whatever consolidated
Ukronazi-power might come out from such a conflict. Actually, should that happen I fully expect
the Ukronazis to declare a kind of jihad to liberate the Moskal' -occupied Ukraine. This means
that the initial bloodbath would be followed by a festering low to medium level military
conflict between Russia and the Ukraine which could last a very long time and also be most
undesirable for Russia.
During my studies I had the honor and privilege to study with a wonderful Colonel of the
Pakistani Army who became a good friend. One day (that was around 1991) I asked my friend what
the Pakistani strategy would be during a possible war against India. He replied to me: "look,
we all know that India is much stronger and bigger than Pakistan, but what we all also know is
that if they attack us we can give them a very bloody nose". This is exactly what the Ukrainian
strategy might be: to give Russia a "bloody nose". Militarily, this is impossible, of course,
but in political terms any open war against the Ukraine would be a disaster for Russia. It
would also be a disaster for the Ukraine, but the puppet-masters of the Ukronazis in Kiev don't
care about the people of the Ukraine anymore than they care about the people of Russia: all
they want is to give the Russians a big bloody nose.
In summary, here is one possible scenario which might result in a regional catastrophe:
whoever is in power in the Ukraine would begin by realizing that the project of an Ukronazi
Banderastan has already failed and that neither the EU nor, even less so, the US is willing to
continue to toss money into the Ukie black hole. Furthermore, clever Ukie politicians will
realize that neither Poroshenko nor Zelensii have "delivered" the expected "goods" to the
Empire. Then the East-European US vassal-states (lead by Poland and the Baltic statelets) also
realize that EU money is running out and that far from having achieved any real economic
progress (nevermind any "miracle"), they are also becoming increasingly irrelevant to their
masters in the EU and US. And, believe me, the political leaders of these US vassal-states have
realized a long time ago that a war between Russia and the Ukraine would be a fantastic
opportunity for them to regain some value in the eyes of their imperial overlords in the EU and
US. To people who think like these people do, even an attempted Neptune strike against
Sevastopol would be a quick and quite reasonable way to force Putin's hand.
The big Ukrainegate trials from Nov. 2019 to Jan. 2020 was to defend Zion Ukraine.
Then the Corona show began in the US since mid March 2020.
BLM started late May 2020.
Ukronazis hate everything about Russia with a frenzy. It is extremely irrational and
counterproductive for Ukraine of today. Russia is not communist anymore. The Zion ruled west
is the real enemy of Ukraine. Yet, the Ukronazis can't see that with their anti-Russia
frenzy.
BLM does the exact same thing. It destroys everything in the US except the real problem
which is our rulers – the Zionists. This creates the same situation as in Zion
Ukraine.
...Ukraine is disintegrating. I do not know if Russia would actually invade Ukrainian
territory, or if the West would engage in real war for Ukraine since their constituencies
would not stand for it.
And what is actually going on now? The US, the EU and Russia all had the chance to accept
and work with the new fella, Zelensky, who was boldly demanding money, goods, services, more
money, technology, high tech, skilled labor, management, and more money.
No one is running to fund, support, and actually construct a dangerous Zionist state
between Russia and Europe.
Looks like everyone is content to watch Ukraine slowly disappear as a nation-state so that
another organization can appear. You'd think both the EU, (Germany) and Russia would like to
see Ukraine's farm and food production prowess restored, to the condition of the Bread Basket
of Europe. George Soros, I've read, controls everything in Ukraine.
What exists, is a Soros founded, 'open society', Zionist, oligarchical, private sector,
and ultimately, government supported, feudal-state.
But there was one deficiency that was, and is, fatal -- a deficiency that would inevitably
cause the new states to misgovern at home while degrading international standards abroad. There
was one thing that the new states lacked -- something they could neither make for themselves
nor obtain from abroad: this was a genuine political community. It is difficult to give a
formal definition of political community. Perhaps it is best to begin by evoking the familiar
concept of "the nation" as opposed to that of "the state."
The new states came into existence because the colonial authorities handed over their powers
to political leaders who had agitated for independence; more specifically, the new leaders were
given control over the army, police, tax collectors, and administrators who had worked for the
colonial government.
The old servants of the empire served their new masters, ostensibly for new purposes. But
their methods and their operational ideology were those of the imperial power -- which were
shaped by notions that reflected the values of its political community, including legality.
There was no organic nexus between the native cultures and the instruments of state power, and
neither could such a link be formed. For one thing, there were usually several native cultures,
typically quite different and often inimical.
... ... ...
The consequences soon became evident. The new rulers were vested with all the crushing
powers over individuals that the entire machinery of files and records, vehicles,
telecommunications, and modern weapons gave to the departed colonial states they had inherited.
But their conduct was not constrained by any notions o f legality or by the ethical standards
that any functioning political community must enforce, even if only to the extent of requiring
hypocrisy and discretion on the part of violators.
Above all, their conduct was not restrained by ordinary political resistance because the
first leaders who gained office with independence soon ensured their enduring monopoly of
power. That was first asserted by outlawing or illegally shutting down any rival political
party, but it was better assured by the feeble opposition of the oppressed majority, which
lacked the social frameworks for effective opposition of any kind, whether peaceful or
violent.
"We are alarmed by continuous attempts to misuse the Ukrainian justice system for
politically motivated persecution of political opponents," said lawmakers from the informal
Friends of European Ukraine group in a statement on Friday (3 July).
After the peaceful power transition of 2019 election in the post-Soviet country,
"current attempts to prosecute political opponents pose a risk of democratic backsliding,"
the group of MEPs added.
Ukraine's former president, Petro Poroshenko, is suspected of abuse of office by
illegally pressuring the then-chief of Ukraine's Foreign Intelligence Service, Yehor Bozhok,
into appointing Serhiy Semоchko as his deputy.
Poroshenko is involved in 24 investigations, with three others recently closed, and
denies any wrongdoing, calling the probes selective justice 'at the orders of [Volodymyr]
Zelensky', the current president .
The 50-member group, which does not have formal standing, was created in September last
year with the goal of providing political support and to promote Ukraine's economic
integration with the EU
####
Unfortunately there is more at the link except the names of MEPs.
A Ukrainian oligarch has his own MEP lobby group! Why should we be surprised? I can't find
a list of members (this is not the old 2014-19 group and this European Parliament page has
not been updated with the new group of the same name) but Auštrevičius is the
chaiman. There's also the Friends of Ukraine with the like of Fogh Rasmussen, Versbow,
Rifkind, Cox, Bildt etc. on the Rasmussen site.
No matter how corrupt, murderous or just plain nasty, it is more important to keep the
u-Kraine close to the EU, close to NATO etc. for strategic purposes. It's just another
western chapter of looking the other way for their 'son of a bitches.'
Phone Calls Between Biden And Ukraine's Poroshenko Leaked; Details $1 Billion "Quid Pro
Quo" To Fire Burisma Prosecutor by Tyler Durden Wed, 05/20/2020 - 05:12 Leaked
phone calls between Joe Biden and former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko explicitly detail
the quid-pro-quo arrangement to fire former Ukrainian Prosecutor General Victor Shokin - who
Poroshenko admits did nothing wrong - in exchange for $1 billion in US loan guarantees (which
Biden openly bragged about in January, 2018
).
The calls were leaked by Ukrainian MP
Andrii Derkach , who says the recordings of "voices similar to Poroshenko and Biden" were
given to him by investigative journalists who claim Poroshenko made them.
Shokin was notably investigating Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that hired Biden's
son, Hunter, to sit on its board. Shokin had opened a case against Burisma's founder, Mykola
Zlochevsky, who granted Burisma permits to drill for oil and gas in Ukraine while he was
Minister of Ecology and Natural Resources. In January, 2019,
Shokin stated in a deposition that there were five criminal cases against Zlochevesky,
including money laundering, corruption, illegal funds transfers, and profiteering through shell
corporations while he was a sitting minister.
The leaked calls begin on December 3, 2015 , when former Secretary of State John Kerry
starts laying out the case to fire Shokin - who he says "blocked the cleanup of the Prosecutor
Generals' Office," and sated that Biden "is very concerned about it," to which Poroshenko
replies that the newly reorganized prosecutor general's office (NABU) won't be able to pursue
corruption charges, and that it may be difficult to fire Shokin without cause.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/EbmDLhJ43cU
Later in the leaked audio on February 18, 2016 - less than three months after the Kerry
conversation - Poroshenko delivers some "positive news."
"Yesterday I met with General Prosecutor Shokin," says Poroshenko. And despite of the fact
that we didn't have any corruption charges, we don't have any information about him doing
something wrong, I specially asked him - no, it was day before yesterday - I specially asked
him to resign. In, uh, as his, uh, position as a state person. And despite of the fact that he
has a support in the power. And as a finish of my meeting with him, he promised to give me the
statement on resignation. And one hour ago he bring me the written statement of his resignation
. And this is my second step for keeping my promises. "
Four weeks later on March 22, 2016, Biden says "Tell me that there is a new government and a
new Prosecutor General. I am prepared to do a public signing of the commitment for the billion
dollars. "
Poroshenko tells Biden that one of the leading candidates is the man who replaced Shokin,
Yuriy Lutsenko who later said
in a deposition that Hunter Biden and his business partners were receiving millions of
dollars in compensation from Burisma.
Then, on May 13, 2016, Biden congratulates Poroshenko on "getting the new Prosecutor
General," saying that it will be "critical for him to work quickly to repair the damage Shokin
did."
" And I'm a man of my word ," Biden adds. "And now that the new Prosecutor General is in
place, we're ready to move forward to signing that one billion dollar loan guarantee ."
Poroshenko thanks Biden for the support, and says that it was a "very tough challenge and a
very difficult job."
Shokin, meanwhile, filed a criminal complaint against Biden in Kiev this February, in which
he writes:
During the period 2014-2016, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine was conducting a
preliminary investigation into a series of serious crimes committed by the former Minister of
Ecology of Ukraine Mykola Zlotchevsky and by the managers of the company "Burisma Holding
Limited "(Cyprus), the board of directors of which included, among others, Hunter Biden, son of
Joseph Biden, then vice-president of the United States of America.
The investigation into the above-mentioned crimes was carried out in strict accordance with
Criminal Law and was under my personal control as the Prosecutor General of Ukraine.
Owing to my firm position on the above-mentioned cases regarding their prompt and objective
investigation, which should have resulted in the arrest and the indictment of the guilty
parties, Joseph Biden developed a firmly hostile attitude towards me which led him to express
in private conversations with senior Ukrainian officials, as well as in his public speeches, a
categorical request for my immediate dismissal from the post of Attorney General of Ukraine in
exchange for the sum of US $ 1 billion in as a financial guarantee from the United States for
the benefit of Ukraine.
* * *
And while we cannot verify the authenticity of the recordings with absolute certainty, we
now have the audio revealing how the deed was orchestrated.
The EU should reconsider its 'all or nothing' approach on sanctions imposed on Russia for
its role in the ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine, as well as its annexation of Crimea, a
new report from the International Crisis Group suggests. The Brussels-based think tank calls
for the easing of certain sanctions in exchange for Russian progress towards peace in
Ukraine.
"Inflexible sanctions are less likely to change behaviour," said Olga Oliker, Europe
and Central Asia programme director. "Because of that, we urge considering an approach that
would allow for the lifting of some sanctions in exchange for some progress, with a clear
intent to reverse that rollback of sanctions if the progress itself is reversed."
.A major roadblock in the implementation of the Minsk deal has been the sequence of
events supposed to bring an end to the conflict that has so far claimed more than 13,000
lives.
Kyiv wants to first regain control over its border with Russia before local elections
in the war-torn region can be held, while Moscow believes that elections must come
first
####
Door. Horse. Barn. Bolted.
The Intentional Critics Grope is yet again a $/€ short in the reality department.
You would think the Editor Gotev (the last two paras by him) would mention that the Minsk
agreement clearly states elections come first and that Kiev has singularly refuse the other
conditions of the agreement, but that really would be asking too much. From a professional
journalist.
It's the same shit we got with the US-North Korea 4 point nuclear agreement where
de-nuclearization of the region is the final stage yet it didn't take Washington and
ball-licking corporate media to parrot 'denuclearization' as the first point as suddently
decided by the Ovum Orifice.*
They try it on again about every six months, just to see if the Russian negotiators have
changed and if the new ones are dimwitted. I'm sure it is crystal clear to the Kremlin that
if it gave Ukraine back exclusive control of the border, it would (a) call up troops and set
up a cordon to make it impossible for eastern Ukraine to be reinforced, and (b) launch an
all-out military push to re-take the breakaway regions. The west would then shout "Safe!!!",
and the game would be over – Ukraine is (almost) whole again, praise Jeebus. There
would be a propaganda storm that Russia was 'trying to meddle in the peace process' while
Kuh-yiv rooted out and either imprisoned or executed all the 'rebel' leaders, and the west
– probably the USA – would provide 'peacekeepers' to give Ukraine time to restore
its complete control over the DNR and LPR. Then, presto! no elections required, we are all
happy Ukrainians!
They knew 'inflexible sanctions were less likely to change behaviors' when they first
agreed to impose them – but they were showing their belly to Washington, and don't know
how to stop now. Serves them right if they are losing revenue and market share.
I don't think Russia is very interested, beyond polite diplomatic raising of the eyebrows, in
relaxing of sanctions under conditions the EU is careful to highlight could be reapplied in a
trice, as soon as anyone was upset with Russia's performance. Because that moment would be
literally only a moment away. The UK can be counted on to register blistering outrage at the
drop of a hat, and while its influence on the EU will soon be limited, dogs-in-the-manger
like Poland can always be relied upon to throw themselves about in an ecstasy of victimhood.
It would be impossible to set up any sort of dependable supply chain, as the interval between
orders would never be known with any degree of certainty. Fuck the EU. Russia is better off
to press on as it has been doing. The EU has to buy oil and gas from Russia because the
logistics and price of American supplies make them economically non-competitive, and best to
just leave it there. The EU will bitch, but it will continue to buy, whereas any other
commerce would be subject to theatrical hissy fits.
Ukraine will remain as a festering sore for quite some years yet. It is an annoyance but also
distracts Foggy Bottom to an extent and this is never a bad thing.
The control structure is firmly in place and Zelenskii knew this before he tossed his hat
in the ring. Just like in Cehsha, no one is successful in politics in orcland without
permission of Langley and their field office which is the entire top floor of the American
Embassy in Kiev. He is a figurehead albeit with no known, operative term being 'known',
affiliations with the nazi orcs.
Novorossiya is to all intents and purposes now a part of Russia. It is not official and
will not be official for some years yet, could be even a decade if not more. In practice, in
general Novorossiya uses the Russian code of law and justice. The borders with Novorossiya,
unlike with orcland, are open and it is very common to see DPR and LPR license tags down
here, both private and commercial vehicles. We are getting some product manufactured in
Novorossiya in this berg including excellent and quite reasonably priced winter boot socks
and long underwear, and this means that NAF, Novorossiya Armed Forces, are fully equipped and
in need of nothing.
The nazi 'volunteer' battalions are still in use in the lines but the die hard nazi
honchos no longer put themselves in danger, too many of them have bitten the big one, so now
they feed the youngsters in to the slaughter.
OSCE as usual sees nothing on the orc side and in general have disappeared on the
Novorossiya side for the last few years, a little something about OSCE leaving a village near
the lines and scant minutes later the orcs bombarded that village with pinpoint accuracy.
Imagine that, what a surprise. As an aside, when OSCE showed up at the Krim borders in early
April of '14, demanding entrance with a dozen or so buses behind them as 'security', said
buses full of armed Maidan fighters, they were given short shrift and refused entry. No
negotiation, no bargaining, just 'hell no, you aren't coming in'.
Bottom line, orcland lost the war in the late summer cauldrons of '14 when the 'young men
who are not rallying to the colours' according to Strelkov returned home with their training
cut short and savaged the orc battalions sitting fat, dumb and happy in the steppes just east
of Saur Mogeleh. The coup d'grace was the Debaltsyevo Cauldron of early '15 wherein the
golden pheasants, the foreign mercenaries and 'observers', were allowed to leave first, only
allowed their rucks and one personal weapon (which led to the foreigners abandoning not a
small number of interesting devices and informations) and only in open trucks. The same deal
was given to the orcs and the first couple orc units followed the deal to the letter, then
the orcs decided to run for it with their armor and AFV's. They were promptly slaughtered by
not only DPR and LPR forces but also the locals who armed up with abandoned orc weapons and
had their revenge for the depredations of the orcs.
Sadly, this war will go on for a while and the only thing saving the orcs from losing the
rest of Donetsk Oblast and Lughansk Oblast is the firm hand VVP keeps on the reins of NAF.
NAF is far from strong enough to take anything beyond the two oblasti but would dearly love
to be turned loose to take the rest of their lands. This will not happen in the near and
possibly not so near future.
Sevastopol and Krimu are, and will continue to be, overjoyed with our freedom from the
orcs and it was us, the locals, who locked up the orcs and then put them out. Life is normal
in Russia and yes, we are absolutely a part of Russia and always will be. Never again will a
foreign power raise their foul smelling coloured rags on our flagpoles. Never.
Never The Last One, paper back edition. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1521849056 A deep look
in to Russia, her culture and her Armed Forces, in essence a look at the emergence of Russian
Federation.
If winning 5% of mainland Ukraine is a victory, I'd hate to see what a loss would be. The
Kremlin's policy may have worked from an economic point of view, but perhaps not from a
geostrategic one. And that is setting aside morality or morale questions.
Maybe this was the best that could be achieved at the time, but that just illustrates how
badly Moscow maneuvered for decades to get into such a bind.
So suggest what Russia should have done, taking in to account that Russia was still
rebuilding from the early '90's debacle and was in no real condition to go to war if needed.
Morality and morale questions have very little weight in the realm of power politics, and
that is precisely were the orc mess was and is, power politics. We took Krim and Sevastopol
home, the locals removed the best of Donbas from orc control. People die in conflicts and
often far more innocents die than the actual fighters. This is a fact of life for untold time
and nothing will change this fact.
Paul II, you sit on your couch and play general, but smoke is coming from your butt, not
knowledge or facts.
Here's what a loss would have been:
125,000-250,000 Russian-speaking people of Donbass slaughtered, some in battles overrunning
the cities, most eliminated in filtration (like in Mariupol, Kharkiv, Odessa and Krasny Limon
during the war).
That would have been part of what a loss would look like. Genocide. Ethnic Cleansing.
The Ukies were moving their troops with mobile crematoria. They wound up using them to hide
their own losses, but the intention was to "disappear" the bodies of the civilians they came
to Donbass to kill.
The Trade Union Fire Massacre should tell you what a loss would look like.
The bombing at noon of Lugansk City Hall park and building should tell you what a loss would
look like.
There are plenty of examples of what a loss would look like.
Review the photos, watch the videos. The loss would have looked like 1000 of those crimes
against humanity.
So, do your homework and don't come here with simpleton comments.
The Mad Dogs of the Maidan slaughtered dozens of the Berkut in Kiev and tried to kill more as
they fled to Krim. Ask Auslander about those facts. The Ukie intention was murder on a scale
not seen since Yugoslavia in the '90s, but 10x worse.
Russia, Putin, Moscow, the Kremlin stopped it in its tracks, and delivered a victory to
Donbass.
Ask the US special forces and NATO what the boilers the Ukies suffered were, victories or
losses?
Ask the 600 NATO golden pheasants allowed to bus out of Debaltsevo cauldron (after Minsk2
was signed) what victory or loss looked like. Putin bent Merkel, Hollande, and Porky
backwards as they begged him to save the NATO troops surrounded by Zakharchenko's Donbass
Army. Victory or Loss?
2014 is not 2020. It was clear that Moscow knew they would have to hold Crimea from the
Maidanistas. Defending the Peninsula, protecting Sevastopol was primary.
Next, Russia had to protect the long border with Ukraine. Multiple fronts would have
opened up, not just the border at Lughansk, which the Donbass captured from the Ukies.
No one knows whether NATO would allow Poland to attack and grab Kaliningrad.
There was Georgia that could have ignited against Russia again.
There was Transnistria that could have erupted into a battle zone.
Putin had to stay focused on what Russia in 2014 could handle. A wide, deep war in Ukraine
was not in the cards. It was a calculation Strelkov had not made. He thought the Russians
would come in force.
It wasn't in the cards. It wasn't necessary.
The threat was controlled.
Donbass was a victory.
That Europe, the OSCE, NATO, the Exceptionally Moral USA and the UN all allow the daily
bombardment and killing of civilians in Donbass doesn't mean the war was lost.
What the results are is proof of the high crime of Russophobia and attempts at Ethnic
Cleansing.
Kiev spews their hatred at every opportunity. The US rewards them with billions of dollars
for doing so.
NATO trains them to do it with their military.
American Special Forces joins them at the front to kill with Javelins, sniper rifles,
artillery, mortars and armed drones.
Russia waits. It waited since Khrushchev's days for Crimea to return. The polite Green Men
didn't have to fire a shot.
The war you win sometimes is the war you never fight.
Russia is not interested in all of Ukraine. Historically, only a portion of Ukraine is
connected with Russian culture. As we saw with Crimea, it may return on its own one day. No
need to fight a war to claim it.
Larchmonter, my friend and comrade, there is hardly a thing I can add to your well though out
and erudite reply besides your forecast of the casualties if Donbas had been overrun by the
orcs is if anything too low.
Perhaps Paul II has not read the blog archives where what I posted what the refugees and
evacuees we were digging out of Donetsk said about their lovely adventures. Perhaps I should
post what our adoptive son and his two sisters went through, or what the two girls that took
us two weeks to find after they were sent by their mother and father to safe haven had to say
after we had to tell them that their mother, father, grandmother, six neighbors and four dogs
were killed when a Grad went through the kitchen window of their flat in Gorlovka. As a small
aside, there was not a single DPR soldier or piece of equipment within 4 kilometers of their
flat when the entire complex took a complete packet of Grad missiles that killed a lot more
than their immediate family and neighbors.
I think I will just leave that to his imagination whilst he ruminates about what President
Putin should have done.
Larch,
I mean no offence but, where is your point of reference?
From what well does your point of view flow?
Information recieved, or truly your own observations and honest conclusions?
Ukraine is owned and operated by the US. The CIA and SBU are fingers on the same hand
(Avakov's fist). They share the same building in Kiev and in Mariupol, and probably in Odessa
and Kharkiv. Certainly, the control of the population in these cities are all under the thumb
(and boot) of Avakov.
The Nazis have their hero, Biletsky, the Azov Battalion charismatic. More and more his
forces own the streets of Kiev and are the masses that terrorize the Comedian Chief
Zelenskii.
The military has been retrained and re-equipped with some better weapons. Drones are
prolific and add to the bombardments of Donbass, usually done by tanks, mortars and 122mm
arty, and sometimes, MRLS.
The negotiations are primarily at a high level, with new faces on both sides. Andrey Ermak
for Ukraine and Dmitry Kozak for Russia. Kozak replaces Surkov who has resigned from all
Presidential special assignments.
These two, Ermak and Kozak, arranged the gas deal that settled the lawsuit against Gazprom
and arranges the natural gas supply for Ukraine. Kozak is Ukrainian-born. He seems to favor
leaving Donbass inside Ukraine, and shows no inclination to separate the Donbass and bring it
into the Russian Federation.
Though most analysts predict the collapse of Ukraine, and, including nearly all of them
have much more knowledge than I do about Ukraine, my opinion is based on my knowledge and
analysis of US history, ideology and hegemonic strategies and tactics.
I don't think Ukraine will be allowed to collapse. It is a strategic piece of turf, and
the people don't matter to the US. If they live or die, work or are enslaved, are healthy or
sick, it doesn't factor in the calculus. What matters is there are Russophobes there by the
tens of millions. It is a long border with Russia.
Also, Russia won't invade it. Russia accepts the daily bombardment of Donbass (six years
of it). Russia took the crown jewel, Crimea. It has shown no interest in taking in
Donbass.
Ukraine effectively (along with Crimea) are the reasons for many sanctions that
marginalize Russia and bring it close to classification of "aggressor". There is a strong
effort to take Russia's UNSC seat or at least its voting rights because of this "aggression".
One reason for the persistence of the MH-17 court case aimed at Russia is to add to the
"aggressor" facts. Russia is the target of the Dutch prosecution.
How long can Kiev last? At five billion dollars a year, it can last a decade more, longer
if useful. Where does the money come from? US, European haters of Russia, billionaires from
Russia, from Ukraine and from other nations, the World Bank, the IMF. The CIA and the US
Senate would sign on to the whole bill if need be. Just another item on the black budget.
There's money in the State Dept and plenty of money from UK, historic enemy of Russia. Money
for Ukraine has not ever been an issue.
What does five billion per year buy? 365 days of pure hatred, bombardment of Donbass and
the continuing sanctions and demonization of Putin and Russia.
They aren't operating a nation with the money. They are financing the hatred, the war, the
psychosis of the nazis.
As for the Ukies, now 36 million or so, they are on their own. No one cares if they
disperse to other countries. There is no Ukraine as it once existed seven years ago or 25
years ago. That's gone.
The population is the target of sex traffickers, human organ traffickers, terror groups
needing more manpower, and countries that want near-slave labor workers.
The degradation of the Ukraine people is no one's concern. It is not a factor in anyone's
plans or schemes.
Young men will be shanghaied into the ATO military and young women will be enticed or forced
into the sex industry at home or abroad. Old people will die from poor food and no medical
care.
What matters is that the turf next door to Russia is a launching pad and base of military
operations, terrorist acts and sabotage aimed at Russia and especially at Crimea. The US
wants this, most of the EU wants this, NATO wants this, every Russophobe on Earth wants this
and all Khazarians dream of this night and day.
A Second Israel is a project some Khazarians talk openly about Ukraine.
Of course, that is after Ukraine is emptied and Russia is broken. For now a dream. But once,
so was Israel.
So, we are in for a long war. A decade more of this is entirely possible.
What has always been the key is would the Ukies finally pass over the psychotic red line and
attack Russia. Then, the ending is knowable. All nazis pushed into an enclave in the west
(Lviv) and Ukraine filtered and reconstructed.
The initiative is with the Ukies. They decide. An agonizing slow disappearance and decay
or a lightning war that cauterizes the pus out of their nation and brings them from
Euro-delusion to Eurasian reality.
Larchmonter445
On this occasion I cannot fully agree with you. You stated that Ukraine will not be permitted
to collapse. And who is going to prevent this ? And how will this be prevented ? As I have
written before, the West, led by NATO and the EU, started a chain reaction in 2014 when they
instigated that coup d'etat against Yanukovich. Central American and South American methods
of regime change were implemented, where a minority was intended to both represent and
control the majority. The coup plotters forgot that there is such a thing as history and
tradition. Ukraine is a post World War One artificial creation, as before that it never
existed as a sovereign state. The actual name of the country is derived from the Slavic name
"Krayina", which means "frontier region". From "Krayina" you get "Ukrayina" and from
"Ukrayina" you got "Ukraine", which was the frontier region of Russia. The so-called
Ukrainian language has about 90 % Russian words, the remaining 10% being either Polish or
Western words.
What happened in 2014 ? Quite simply the clock was turned back, Ukraine being transformed
in to a feudal state run by robber barons known as oligarchs. The neo-Nazi thugs seen in the
streets are feudal retainers, used to terrorize the population into obedience. And how will
this end ? Yes, the population has currently been reduced to a passive "survival mode".
However, this "survival mode" will produce one of two things: the country will either
dissolve into three entities, the bulk of the population doing nothing about it, or else you
will see a spontaneous explosion of unrest, the neo-Nazis being helpless to prevent it. What
ever happens, I think that Ukraines days as a "sovereign" state are numbered. An artificial
state cannot possible survive. It will break up into three entities, the eastern and central
regions rejoining Russia, while the former Galicia in the west will become an area of
contention between Poland and Hungary.
Just to add a note on Vladimir Putin. I wonder how many times he laughed after that coup
d'etat was instigated against Yanukovich in Kiev. Yes, the West got rid of Yanukovich,
installing puppets. However, puppets are puppets. The West, as I have written, has started a
chain reaction which cannot be stopped. So far Putin has reunited Crimea with Russia. The
Donbass (eastern Russian regions of Ukraine) will follow, concluding with central Ukraine and
the ancient Russian city of Kiev.
B.F. While I mostly agree with a lot you have written on the Donbass, you can be very sure
Putin did not laugh at all after the coup, that you can take to the bank. It did cause him
major – and still – unresolved problems.
read Pavel Sudoplatov´s "Special Tasks" (available on Amazon I believe), there is a
whole chapter "California in Crimea" – and that was about the 1940´s in the USA,
You make the point also. Sudoplatov may be accused of 'antisemitic propaganda', so let the
actors speak for themselves:
from 'Encyclopedia Judaica: The Crimean
Affair'@https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/crimean-affair:
"Name used to refer to the closed antisemitic trial of the Jewish *Anti-Fascist Committee
(JAC) held in Moscow from May to July 1952. One of the pretexts may have been a memorandum
presented in the summer of 1944 by members of the Committee to the Soviet leadership
containing a proposal to create a Jewish Soviet republic in the *Crimea (the Tatar population
of which was exiled by Stalin by May 1944) on the territory of the former German republic of
the Volga. Noting the successes of the Jewish national regions in the Crimea and in the
Kerson region, the authors of the memorandum based their proposal on the lack of a
geographical base of a significant part of the Jewish population of the Soviet Union and on
the need to grant the Jews equality in governmental-legal terms with the other nationalities
of the Soviet Union. They also expressed the hope that "the Jewish masses of all countries,
in particular the United States would give substantial aid" to building up such a republic.
Despite the rumors that some members of the Politburo of the Central Committee ( Lazar
*Kaganovich and Vyacheslav Molotov) were favorably disposed toward the idea of the "Crimean
Plan," it was rejected in 1944.
The proposals of the memorandum contained nothing radically new. Projects for establishing a
Jewish republic in the southern Ukraine or in the Crimea had been suggested earlier. For
example, in 1923 the social leader A. Bragin had proposed that one be established on the
Black Sea coast from Bessarabia to Abkhaz with its capital in Odessa, while Yuri *Larin
supported, in opposition to the Birobidzhan plan, a Jewish autonomous area in the southern
Crimean and Azov region centered in Kerch ".
"... In 2017, a woman working with frontline families told me why she didn't want reintegration. 'These [the population of rebel-held
Donbass] are people with a minimum level of human development, people raised by their TVs. Okay, so we live together, then what? We're
trying to build a completely new society.' ..."
"... And there once again you have it – one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine: the contempt with which the post-Maidan
government and its activist supporters regard a significant portion of their fellow citizens, the 'sick trash' of Donbass with their
'minimum level of human development'. ..."
I'd never heard of the Euro-Atlantic Security Leadership Group (EASLG) until today, even though it turns out that one of its members
has the office next door to mine. Its
website says that
it seeks to respond to the challenge of East-West tensions by convening 'former and current officials and experts from a group of
Euro-Atlantic states and the European union to test ideas and develop proposals for improving security in areas of existential common
interest'. It hopes thereby to 'generate trust through dialogue.'
It's hard to object to any of this, but its latest
statement , entitled 'Twelve Steps Toward Greater Security in Ukraine and the Euro-Atlantic Region', doesn't inspire a lot of
confidence. The 'twelve steps' the EASLG proposes to improve security in Eastern Ukraine are generally pretty uninspiring, being
largely of the 'set up a working group to explore' variety, or of such a vaguely aspirational nature as to be almost worthless (e.g.
'Advance reconstruction of Donbas An essential first step is to conduct a credible needs assessment for the Donbas region to inform
a strategy for its social-economic recovery.' Sounds nice, but in reality doesn't amount to a hill of beans).
For the most part, these proposals attempt to treat the symptoms of the war in Ukraine without addressing the root causes. In
a sense, that's fine, as symptoms need treating, but it's sticking plaster when the patient needs some invasive surgery. At the end
of its statement, though, the EASLG does go one step further with 'Step 12: Launch a new national dialogue about identity', saying:
A new, inclusive national dialogue across Ukraine is desirable and could be launched as soon as possible. Efforts should be
made to engage with perspectives from Ukraine's neighbors, especially Poland, Hungary, and Russia. This dialogue should address
themes of history and national memory, language, identity, and minority experience. It should include tolerance and respect for
ethnic and religious minorities in order to increase engagement, inclusiveness, and social cohesion.
This is admirably trendy and woke, but in the Ukrainian context somewhat explosive, as it implicitly challenges the identity politics
of the post-Maidan regime. Unsurprisingly, it's gone down like a lead balloon in Kiev. The notorious website Mirotvorets even
went so far as to add former
German ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger to its blacklist of enemies of Ukraine for having had the temerity to sign the EASLG statement
and thus 'taking part in Russia's propaganda events aimed against Ukraine.' Katherine Quinn-Judge of the International Crisis Group
commented on Twitter, 'As the idea of dialogue
becomes more mainstream, backlash to the concept grows fiercer.' 'In Ukraine, prominent pro-Western politicians, civic activists,
and media, have called Step 12 "a provocation" and "dangerous",' she added
Quinn-Judge comes across as generally sympathetic to the Ukrainian narrative about the war in Donbass, endorsing the idea that
it's largely a product of 'Russian aggression'. But she also recognizes that the war has an internal, social dimension which the
Ukrainian government and its elite-level supporters refuse to acknowledge. Consequently, they also reject any sort of dialogue, either
with Russia or with the rebels in Donbass. As Quinn-Judge notes in another Tweet:
An advisor to one of Ukraine's most powerful pol[itician]s told us recently of his concern about talk of dialogue in international
and domestic circles. 'We have all long ago agreed among ourselves. We need to return our territory, and then work with that sick
– sick – population.'
This isn't an isolated example. Quinn-Judge follows up with a couple more similar statements:
Social resentments underpin some opposition to disengagement, for example. An activist in [government-controlled] Shchastye
told me recently that she feared disengagement and the reopening of the bridge linking the isolated town to [rebel-held] Luhansk:
'I don't want all that trash coming over here.'
In 2017, a woman working with frontline families told me why she didn't want reintegration. 'These [the population of rebel-held
Donbass] are people with a minimum level of human development, people raised by their TVs. Okay, so we live together, then what?
We're trying to build a completely new society.'
And there once again you have it – one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine: the contempt with which the post-Maidan
government and its activist supporters regard a significant portion of their fellow citizens, the 'sick trash' of Donbass with their
'minimum level of human development'. You can fiddle with treating Donbass' symptoms as much as you like, à la EASLG,
but unless you tackle this fundamental problem, the disease will keep on ravaging the subject for a long time to come. In due course,
I suggest, the only realistic cure will be to remove the patient entirely from the cause of infection.
All that you have described above is very sad, but not very surprising – which is itself very sad. I think Patrick Armstrong is
right that a lot of the reason Ukraine is not and has never been a functional polity is because much if not most of the population
cannot accept that the right side won WWII.
Contempt and loathing towards the Donbass is a pretty popular feeling amongst Ukrainian svidomy. E.g., one of the two regular
pro-Ukrainian commenters on my blog.
To his credit, he supports severing the Donbass from Ukraine (as one would a gangrenous limb – his metaphor) as opposed to
trying to claw it back. Which is an internally consistent position.
Same guy who doesn't consider Yanukovych as having been overthrown under coup like circumstances, while downplaying Poland's
past subjugation of Rus territory.
In Part I and II we saw how much truth is there in Herr Karlin's claim of being a model of the rrrracially purrrre Rrrrrrrussian
plus some personal views.
Part III (this one) gives a peek into his cultural and upbringing limits, which "qualify" him as an expert of all things Russian,
who speaks on behalf of the People and the Country.
" I left when I was six, in 1994 , so I'm not really the best person to ask this question of – it should probably be directed
to my parents, or even better, the Russian government at the time which had for all intents and purposes ceased paying academics
their salaries.
I went to California for higher education and because its beaches and mountains made for a nice change from the bleakness of
Lancashire.
I returned to Russia because if I like Putler so much, why don't I go back there? Okay, less flippancy. I am Russian, I
do not feel like a foreigner here, I like living in Moscow, added bonus is that I get much higher quality of life for the buck
than in California ."
"I never went to school, don't have any experience with writing in Russian, and have been overexposed to Anglo culture ,
so yes, it's no surprise that my texts will sound strange."
The Russian branch of Carnegie Endowment did a piece on this issue. It mostly fits your ideas, but the author suggests it was
a compromise, short-term solution – what steps can be taken right now, without crossing red lines of either side – but compromise
is unwelcome among both parties. The official Russian reaction was quite cold too.
Upon a quick perusal of the website of the org at issue, Alexey Arbatov and Susan Eisenhower have some kind of affiliation
with it, thus maybe explaining the compromise approach you mention.
This matter brings to mind Trump saying one thing during his presidential bid – only to then bring in people in key positions
who don't agree with what he campaigned on.
In terms of credentials and name status, the likes of Rand Paul, Tulsi Gabbard, Stephen Cohen and Jim Jatras, are needed in
Trump's admin for the purpose of having a more balanced foreign policy approach that conforms with US interests (not to be necessarily
confused with what neocons and neolibs favor).
Instead, Trump has been top heavy with geopolitical thinking opposites. He possibly thought that having them in would take
some of the criticism away from him.
The arguably ideal admin has both sides of an issue well represented, with the president intelligently deciding what's best.
On the BBC and on other media there are films of Ukrainians attacking a bus with people evacuated from China. These people
even wanted to burn down the hospital where the peoplew were taken (along with other unrelated patients)
This is a sign of a degraded society – attacking people who may or may not be ill!!!
Ukraine will eventually break up
The nationalist agenda is just degrading the society.
-The economy is failing
-People who can, are leaving
-The elected government has no control over the violent people who take to the streets
It's clear Zelensky is a puppet no different to Poroshenko – this destroys the idea that democracy is a good thing.
It's very sad that the EU and the Americans under Obama – empowered these decisive elements and then blame Russia.
Crimea did the right thing leaving Ukraine – Donbass hopefully will follow.
"And there once again you have it – one of the primary causes of the war in Ukraine: the contempt with which the post-Maidan
government and its activist supporters regard a significant portion of their fellow citizens, the 'sick trash' of Donbass"
[ ]
Only them?
[ ]
Yesterday marks yet another milestone on the Ukrainian glorious шлях перемог and long and arduous return to the Family
of the European Nations. The Civil Society ™ of the Ukraine rose as one in the mighty CoronavirusMaidan, against the jackbooted
goons of the crypto-Napoleon (and agent of Putin) Zelensky. Best people from Poltava oblast' (whose ancestors without doubt, welcomed
Swedish Euro-integrators in 1709) and, most important of all, from the Best (Western) Ukrajina, who 6 years ago made the Revolution
of Dignity in Kiev the reality and whom pan Poroshenko called the best part of the Nation, said their firm "Геть вiд Москви!"
to their fellow Ukrainian citizens, evacuated from Wuhan province in China
The Net is choke full of vivid, memorable videos, showing that 6 years after Maidan, the Ukraine now constitute a unified,
эдiна та соборна country. You all, no doubt, already watched these clips, where a brave middle-aged gentleman from the
Western Ukraine, racially pure Ukr, proves his mental acuity by deducing, that crypto-tyrant (and "не лох") Zelensky wants to
settle evacuees in his pristine oblast out of vengeance, because the Best Ukrajina didn't vote for him during the election. Or
a clip about a brave woman from Poltava oblast, suggesting to relocate the Trojan-horse "fellow countrymen" to Chernobol's Zone.
Or even the witty comments and suggestions by the paragons of the Ukrainian Civil Society, " волонтэры ":
Shy and conscientious members of the Ukrainian (national!) intelligentsia had their instincts aligned rrrrrright. When they
learned about that their hospital will be the one receiving the evacuees from Wuhan, the entire medical personell of that Poltava
oblast medical facility rose to their feet and sang "Shenya vmerla". Democracy and localism proved once again the strongest suit
of the pro-European Ukraine, with Ternopol's oblast regional council voting to accept the official statement to the crypto-tyrant
Zelensky, which calls attempts to place evacuees on their Holy land "an act of Genocide of the Ukrainian People" (c)
That's absolutely "normal", predictable reaction of the "racially pure Ukrainians" to their own fellow citizens. Now, Professor,
are you insisting on seeking or even expecting "compromise" with them ? What to do, if after all these years, there is
no such thing as the united Ukrainian political nation?
"Ukraine's democracy is flourishing like never before due to the tireless efforts of grassroots, pro-democracy, civil-society
groups. Many Ukrainians say their country is now firmly set on an irreversible, pro-Western trajectory. Moreover, the country
has also undertaken a top-to-bottom cultural, economic, and political divorce from its former Soviet overlord.
Today, Ukraine is a democratic success story in the making, despite Russia's best efforts to the contrary."
– Nolan Peterson, a former special operations pilot and a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, is The Daily Signal's foreign
correspondent based in Ukraine
"... On Tuesday, the sixth anniversary of the beginning of the shootings on Kiev's Maidan was celebrated not only in Kiev, but also in Simferopol, the memory of three Crimeans – Dmitry Vlasenko, Vitaly Goncharov and Andrey Fedyukin, the first Berkut fighters who died on Maidan. We will remind that at the peak of the confrontation between law enforcement officers and maydanovites in February 2014, seven "berkutovites" were killed and about three hundred were injured. ..."
"... On the same day, which in Ukraine is still called by inertia the anniversary of the "revolution of dignity", deposed President Viktor Yanukovych addressed his compatriots, and in fact-to the current President Vladimir Zelensky. For some, the protests were a "revolution", but for the majority of the people they turned into a terrible tragedy, Yanukovych said and stressed: "After the 2019 presidential election, the people of Ukraine removed Poroshenko from power, giving President Zelensky and his team a chance to unite Ukraine." ..."
"... The document of the Prosecutor General's office of Ukraine in 2017 became public, which step by step indicates how and from what weapons the Maidan militants first began then – or rather 8 am on February 20 – to shoot the Berkut fighters who were standing in the cordon. A scan of the materials collected by the group of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General's office, Sergei Gorbatyuk, was published by the publication "Country". ..."
"... The document contains a full list of 34 Maidan activists involved in the shootings on February 20, 2014 in the center of Kiev. It turns out that in the fall of 2017, they were preparing to present a "suspicion". The 34 activists listed are members of the centurion Parasyuk group, mostly natives of the Lviv region. Vladimir Parasyuk, recall, took an active part in Euromaidan, later fought in the Donbass and made a political career in the Verkhovna Rada. On February 21, 2014, it was Parasyuk who appeared on the rostrum of the Maidan and announced the refusal of the protesters to fulfill the agreements concluded by the opposition leaders and Yanukovych. ..."
"... The person who actually started the "revolution", as it turns out, was a clear criminal. As noted in the publication "Country", just a month later, in March 2014, Yuskevich was caught in a robbery in his native Lviv region – and the weapon of the crime was the same gun "Chifsan". For this robbery, he received 7 years and is still in prison. So you don't have to look for it, if anything. It can be assumed that the main motive that prompted Yuskevich to participate in the shooting was the hatred of many criminals for the police. But it is significant that the published documents were put under the cloth. Bring Yuskevich suspected in the shooting of "Berkut" was blocked at the level of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General Sergei Gorbatyuk – it is possible that by order from above. ..."
"... "In the investigation of the death of the" heavenly hundred" held after the Maidan, falsification was carried out from the first days, "Yuriy Sivokonenko, a witness and participant in the tragic events, a veteran of the" Berkut " from Donetsk, said in a comment to the newspaper VZGLYAD. "Completely ignored the fact that the soldiers of the special forces "Berkut" and the internal troops of Ukraine did not have weapons until the morning of February 20, 2014, - said the source. – Four years later, we just started looking for trees on the battlefield, calculating bullet paths, although these trees have long been cut down. This in itself shows the scale of the fraud." ..."
"... The fact that firearms and ammunition could get to the Maidan, most likely, with the knowledge and consent of the future head of the presidential administration Sergei Pashinsky and the future speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Andrey Parubiy, still knew in 2014, said Sivokonenko. "This has been discussed many times. Pashinsky was even detained while trying to remove a sniper rifle from the Maidan in the trunk of his car in 2014. He, like Parubiy, has the most direct and direct relation to the blood on the Maidan," the veteran of "Berkut" stressed. ..."
"... Back in 2016, the Lviv radical Ivan Bubenchik admitted in a conversation with a journalist in the shooting of "berkutovtsev". But the nationalist protection provided him with immunity from prosecution. ..."
"... That is, fragments of the truth were already known before, but now they are for the first time formed into one clear picture. ..."
"... "These facts became known thanks to the active civil position of the former Minister of justice of Ukraine Elena Lukash and Deputy Andrey Portnov. They made this information public at their own risk, " sivokonenko recalled. However, now the official document of the Prosecutor General's office has been made public, and secondly, the full list of alleged shooters. ..."
"... "This is a key issue, in fact. Were the shooters acting on their own initiative or following a specific order? -the editor-in-chief of the online publication noted on Facebook "Страна.иа" Igor Guzhva. – How did they end up at the Conservatory?" Under what circumstances did Parasyuk appear on the podium the next day, February 21, and say that the Maidan will not fulfill the agreements reached with Yanukovych?". ..."
"... "I assume that the government team is trying to reduce pressure from radical groups, trying to reduce the level of exploitation of the Maidan theme, which is resorted to by supporters of Poroshenko and various right – wing groups," suggested political analyst Ruslan Bortnik. ..."
Kiev released documents of the Prosecutor General's office, which describes how in February 2014, the militants on the Maidan
first opened fire on the "Berkut". The names of the murderers and even the brands of weapons are named. Of course, such important
documents are unlikely to get into the press without the sanction of the current leadership of the country. Now there is only one
question: if the perpetrators of the Maidan massacre are named, will its customers be disclosed?
On Tuesday, the sixth anniversary of the beginning of the shootings on Kiev's Maidan was celebrated not only in Kiev, but also
in Simferopol, the memory of three Crimeans – Dmitry Vlasenko, Vitaly Goncharov and Andrey Fedyukin, the first Berkut fighters who
died on Maidan. We will remind that at the peak of the confrontation between law enforcement officers and maydanovites in February
2014, seven "berkutovites" were killed and about three hundred were injured.
On the same day, which in Ukraine is still called by inertia the anniversary of the "revolution of dignity", deposed President
Viktor Yanukovych addressed his compatriots, and in fact-to the current President Vladimir Zelensky. For some, the protests were
a "revolution", but for the majority of the people they turned into a terrible tragedy, Yanukovych said and stressed: "After the
2019 presidential election, the people of Ukraine removed Poroshenko from power, giving President Zelensky and his team a chance
to unite Ukraine."
There was no response to Yanukovych's appeal, and it would be difficult to expect. But it seems that in recent time the myth of
the Maidan, on which was based the Ukrainian government in the years 2014-2019, began to rapidly deteriorate. First of all, the legend
of the "heavenly hundred"came down the other day. As already noted by the newspaper VZGLYAD, among the designated "heroes" were found:
people killed in drunken fights, suicides, as well as those who were killed directly by the "maydanovites" themselves. On the sixth
anniversary of the beginning of the massacre on Institutskaya street, the mythology of the "revolution of dignity" was dealt a second
blow.
The document of the Prosecutor General's office of Ukraine in 2017 became public, which step by step indicates how and from what
weapons the Maidan militants first began then – or rather 8 am on February 20 – to shoot the Berkut fighters who were standing in
the cordon. A scan of the materials collected by the group of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor
General's office, Sergei Gorbatyuk, was published by the publication "Country".
The document contains a full list of 34 Maidan activists involved in the shootings on February 20, 2014 in the center of Kiev.
It turns out that in the fall of 2017, they were preparing to present a "suspicion". The 34 activists listed are members of the centurion
Parasyuk group, mostly natives of the Lviv region. Vladimir Parasyuk, recall, took an active part in Euromaidan, later fought in
the Donbass and made a political career in the Verkhovna Rada. On February 21, 2014, it was Parasyuk who appeared on the rostrum
of the Maidan and announced the refusal of the protesters to fulfill the agreements concluded by the opposition leaders and Yanukovych.
It is specified that some of the suspects from the list were questioned and even gave confessions. It is reported that the gang
was organized in the first half of February 2014, stocked up on hunting rifles and arrived in the center of Kiev. Specific details
of the beginning of the massacre are given: the first fire was opened by a certain Nazar Yuskevich – from the barricade he fired
at least ten shots at a line of internal troops from a hunting rifle "Chifsan 555", after which the shooting was supported by his
ten accomplices not named in the document.
VZGLYAD-The signal for the overthrow of Yanukovych was the shot of a criminal
The person who actually started the "revolution", as it turns out, was a clear criminal. As noted in the publication "Country",
just a month later, in March 2014, Yuskevich was caught in a robbery in his native Lviv region – and the weapon of the crime was
the same gun "Chifsan". For this robbery, he received 7 years and is still in prison. So you don't have to look for it, if anything.
It can be assumed that the main motive that prompted Yuskevich to participate in the shooting was the hatred of many criminals for
the police. But it is significant that the published documents were put under the cloth. Bring Yuskevich suspected in the shooting
of "Berkut" was blocked at the level of the head of the Department of special investigations of the Prosecutor General Sergei Gorbatyuk
– it is possible that by order from above.
As explained in the publication of "Country", the documents of the Gorbatyuk group as a whole were not given a go, since they
contradicted the official version adopted under Poroshenko: berkutovtsy opened fire on the protesters, on the orders of Yanukovych,
to break the spirit of the Maidan defenders.
"It is clear why under Poroshenko the information was put under the cloth – it would have been necessary to initiate appropriate
criminal cases, prosecute a lot of Maidan activists, and even people's deputies," Ukrainian political analyst Ruslan Bortnik told
the VZGLYAD newspaper.
"In the investigation of the death of the" heavenly hundred" held after the Maidan, falsification was carried out from the first
days, "Yuriy Sivokonenko, a witness and participant in the tragic events, a veteran of the" Berkut " from Donetsk, said in a comment
to the newspaper VZGLYAD. "Completely ignored the fact that the soldiers of the special forces "Berkut" and the internal troops of
Ukraine did not have weapons until the morning of February 20, 2014, - said the source. – Four years later, we just started looking
for trees on the battlefield, calculating bullet paths, although these trees have long been cut down. This in itself shows the scale
of the fraud."
The fact that firearms and ammunition could get to the Maidan, most likely, with the knowledge and consent of the future head
of the presidential administration Sergei Pashinsky and the future speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Andrey Parubiy, still knew in 2014,
said Sivokonenko. "This has been discussed many times. Pashinsky was even detained while trying to remove a sniper rifle from the
Maidan in the trunk of his car in 2014. He, like Parubiy, has the most direct and direct relation to the blood on the Maidan," the
veteran of "Berkut" stressed.
Moreover, at least 6 out of 34 surnames from the list of Gorbatyuk were known earlier. Back in 2016, the Lviv radical Ivan Bubenchik
admitted in a conversation with a journalist in the shooting of "berkutovtsev". But the nationalist protection provided him with
immunity from prosecution. Another shooter – Dmitry Lipovoy, under interrogation by investigators (the video was published last year
by media expert Anatoly Shari), he admitted to handing the tambourine And the father of the future Deputy Zinoviy Parasyuk a saiga
carbine for shooting at security forces.
That is, fragments of the truth were already known before, but now they are for the first time formed into one clear picture.
"These facts became known thanks to the active civil position of the former Minister of justice of Ukraine Elena Lukash and Deputy
Andrey Portnov. They made this information public at their own risk, " sivokonenko recalled. However, now the official document of
the Prosecutor General's office has been made public, and secondly, the full list of alleged shooters.
However, the question remains open – whether Parasyuk's hundred (or Yuskevich's group-Bubenchik-Linden) acted independently or
executed the order. In the draft suspicion that was presented to Yuskevich, investigators of the Prosecutor General's office say
that the leaders of the Maidan did not want a war with Yanukovych, and the Parasyuk group simply "misunderstood" the goals of the
protest.
"This is a key issue, in fact. Were the shooters acting on their own initiative or following a specific order? -the editor-in-chief
of the online publication noted on Facebook "Страна.иа" Igor Guzhva. – How did they end up at the Conservatory?" Under what circumstances
did Parasyuk appear on the podium the next day, February 21, and say that the Maidan will not fulfill the agreements reached with
Yanukovych?".
But whatever it was, "sources in the Prosecutor General's office" did their job – and the sensational document has now become
public. Experts suspect that the publication was sanctioned by President Vladimir Zelensky.
"I assume that the government team is trying to reduce pressure from radical groups, trying to reduce the level of exploitation
of the Maidan theme, which is resorted to by supporters of Poroshenko and various right – wing groups," suggested political analyst
Ruslan Bortnik.
"The accuracy of information may raise questions. But in any case, these materials should become an element of the investigation
of the events on the Maidan, which continues today in Ukraine, " the expert added. And in any case, Bortnik believes, " Moscow's
version is growing, according to which the Maidan was an illegal change of power, a coup that led to events in the Crimea and Donbas."
Supporters of Petro Poroshenko admitted on Tuesday that the publication of documents of the Prosecutor General's office was for
them a" retaliatory blow " of the anti-Maidan.
"All these lists are an obvious provocation aimed at aggravating the conflict on the anniversary of the tragic events. The whole
country saw who killed people on Maidan and who was killed. There are video frames!,- the head of the Kiev center for applied political
research "Penta" Vladimir Fesenko told the newspaper VZGLYAD. – And these materials, authored by the then Deputy head of the administration
of President Yanukovych – are an attempt by the anti-Maidan to strike back and present their version. This is an attempt to absolve
yourself of responsibility for the evil, for the blood that was spilled then. Most Ukrainians remember who the killers were."
Fesenko hopes that the majority of Ukrainians will be able to keep on the side of the "revolution of Dignity". This will be easy
to do. Most Ukrainian TV channels ignored the publication of documents of the Prosecutor General's office.
"... Imagine if we substitute the U.S. for Russia and the country "invaded" was Canada, rather than Ukraine, the government overthrown was in Ottawa and not Kiev, and the provinces embroiled in a foreign-backed civil war have been Nova Scotia and New Brunswick rather the provinces of Eastern Ukraine? This report, written in 2016, may make it easier to understand what has been really going on in Ukraine. Clicking on the links is key to understanding the real story. ..."
"... Washington Post ..."
"... Versions of this article first appeared on ..."
The impeachment hearings and trial of Donald Trump were filled with talk of Russian
aggression against Ukraine and threats to the United States. But what would it be like if we
switched the roles of Russia and the U.S.?
Imagine if we substitute the U.S. for Russia and the country "invaded" was Canada,
rather than Ukraine, the government overthrown was in Ottawa and not Kiev, and the provinces
embroiled in a foreign-backed civil war have been Nova Scotia and New Brunswick rather the
provinces of Eastern Ukraine? This report, written in 2016, may make it easier to understand
what has been really going on in Ukraine. Clicking on the links is key to understanding the
real story.
T he United States has "invaded" Canada to support the breakaway Maritime provinces that are
resisting a Moscow-engineered violent coup d'etat against the democratically elected
government in Ottawa.
The U.S. move is to protect separatists in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia after Washington
annexed Prince Edwards Island in a quickly arranged referendum .
The Islanders voted over 90 percent in favor of joining
the United States following the Russian-backed coup. Moscow has condemned the referendum as
illega l.
Hard-liners in the U.S. want
Washington to annex all three Maritime provinces, whose fighters are defying the coup in Ottawa
after Moscow installed an unelected prime minister.
Russian-backed Canadian federal troops have
launched so-called "anti-terrorist" operations in the breakaway region to crush the
rebellion, shelling residential areas and killing hundreds of civilians.
The violent coup.
The Canadian army are joined by Russian-supported neofascist battalions that played a crucial role in the
overthrow of the Canadian government. In Halifax, the extremists have burned alive at least 40
pro-U.S. civilians who had taken refugee in a trade union building.
Proof that Russia was behind the overthrow of the elected Canadian prime minister is
contained in a
leaked conversation between Georgiy Yevgenevich Borisenko, foreign ministry chief of
Moscow's North America department, and Alexander Darchiev, the Russian ambassador to
Canada.
According to a transcript of the leaked conversation,
Borisenko discussed who the new Canadian leaders should be six weeks before the coup took
place.
Russia moved to launch the coup when Canada decided
to take a loan package from the IMF that had fewer strings attached than a loan from
Russia.
Russia's Beijing ally was reluctant to back the coup. But this seemed of little concern to
Borisenko who is heard on the tape saying, "Fuck China."
Minister handing out cookies in the square.
Weeks before the coup Borisenko was filmed visiting protestors who had camped out in
Parliament Square in Ottawa demanding the ouster of the prime minister. Borisenko is seen
giving out cakes to
the demonstrators.
The foreign ministers of Russian-allied Belarus and Cuba also marched with the protestors
through the streets of Ottawa against the government. Russian media has portrayed the
unconstitutional change of government an act of "democracy." Russian senators have met in
public with extreme right-wing Canadian coup leaders,
praising their rebellion.
Borisenko said in a speech that Russia had spent $5 billion
over the past decade to "bring democracy" to Canada.
Senator meeting far-right coup leaders.
The money was spent on training "civil society." The use of non-governmental organizations
to overthrow foreign governments that stand in the way of Russia's economic and geo-strategic
interests is well documented, especially in a 1991 Washington Post column,
"Innocence Abroad: The New World of Spyless Coups ."
The United States has thus moved to ban
Russian NGOs from operating in the country.
The coup took place as protestors violently clashed with police, breaking through barricades
and killing a number of officers. Snipers fired on the police and the crowd from a nearby
building in Parliament Square in which the Russian embassy had set up offices
just a few floors above, according to Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N.
Son Gets Job After Coup
Russian lawmakers
compared President Barack Obama to Adolph Hitler for allegedly sending U.S. troops into the
breakaway provinces and for annexing Prince Edward Island in an act of "American aggression."
The Maritimes have had long ties to the U.S. dating back to the American Revolution.
Russia says it has intelligence proving that U.S. tanks have crossed the Maine border into
New Brunswick, but have failed to make the evidence public. They have revealed no satellite
imagery. Russian news media only reports American-backed rebels fighting in the Maritimes, not
American troops.
Washington denies it has invaded but says some American volunteers have entered the Canadian
province to join the fight.
Russia's puppet prime minister now in charge in Ottawa has only offered as proof six American passports of
U.S. soldiers found in New Brunswick.
Son gets job on energy company board after his father's government backs violent coup.
The Maritime Canadian rebels have secured anti-aircraft weapons enabling them to shoot down
a number of Royal Canadian Air Force transport planes.
A Malaysian airlines passenger jet was also shot down over Nova Scotia killing all on board.
Russia has accused President Obama of being behind the incident, charging that the U.S.
provided the anti-aircraft weapon.
Moscow has refused to release any intelligence to support its claim, other than
statements by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.
Canada's economy is near collapse and is dependent on infusions of Russian aid. This comes
despite a former Russian foreign ministry official being installed as
Canada's finance minister, only receiving Canadian citizenship on her first day on the job.
Despite installing a Russian to run Canada's economy, President Putin told the U.N. General
Assembly that Russia had
"few economic interests" in the country. But Russian agribusiness companies have already
taken stakes in Albertan wheat fields. And Ilya Medvedev, son of Russian Prime Minister
Dmitri Medvedev, as well as a Lavrov family friend
joined the board of Canada's largest oil company just weeks after the coup.
Russia's ultimate aim, beginning with the imposition of sanctions on the U.S., appears to be
a color revolution in Washington to overthrow Obama and install a Russian-friendly American
president.
This is clear from numerous statements by Russian officials and academics. A former Russian
national security advisor whom Putin consults on foreign policy said the United States should be
broken into three countries.
He has also
written that Canada is the stepping stone to the United States and that if the U.S. loses
Canada it will fail to control North America.
Joe Lauria is editor-in-chief of Consortium News and a former correspondent
forThe Wall Street Journal, Boston Globe,Sunday Timesof London and numerous other newspapers. He can be reached at[email protected]and
followed on Twitter @unjoe .
mary floyd , February 15, 2020 at 13:20
The most important takeaway in this article for me was that the US should be broken into
three separate entities!
That would work well for most Americans. All in all, this is a great piece, Mr. Lauria!
Dao Gen , February 15, 2020 at 02:28
Joe, you are The Truth. The only thing you left out, no doubt for reasons of space and
time, was the immortal statement made by a leading member of the Russian Duma, who said
during a stirring and well-received speech that, “Canada is our crucial first line of
defense against the US. If Canada weren’t there to stop the Americans, we’d have
to fight them right here on our own doorstep.”
A very creative way of making the point. Still do not understand the depth of what often
appears to be heart felt hate for Russia by very powerful and smart people. Remember reading
a comment by Phil Girardi early in the Trump tour when he remarked at the depth of dislike of
Russia within the spook community. He wrote he was surprised and had, I think, been part of
that community.
Eddie S , February 15, 2020 at 14:51
RE: “…depth of dislike of Russia within the spook community”.
While I have no ‘special knowledge’ of the so-called ‘intelligence
community’, there’s a few reasons for this that come to-mind:
— Job preservation. The most obvious. The US wouldn’t need ~80% of those spooks
if there
weren’t big scary Russians/Chinese/Iranians/N.Koreans constantly plotting against
the
peaceful, benevolent US.
— Spooks believe in what is mainly a distractionary ploy by US oligarchs/plutocrats.
These
wealthy interests don’t want to lose some of their wealth to social reforms, so they
constantly
financially support scare-mongering, which some spooks unquestioningly accept.
— The profession tends to attract some of the more paranoid elements in our society,
so
they’re inclined that way by nature/personality.
robert e williamson jr , February 14, 2020 at 17:51
Well one thing for sure we would not be seeing a female anchor on CNN bemoaning the fact
the because of the coronavirus many popular kids toys might not be available here in the U.S.
for the up coming holidays (?).
Yes it did happen, hell I couldn’t make that up.
DARYL , February 14, 2020 at 15:45
…or better yet, substitute Central America for Ukraine, and Panama(canal) for
Crimea, then you have the makings of an even more salient parallel.
Realist , February 14, 2020 at 15:42
The difference is that under your scenario the world would be a smoking heap of
radioactive ashes already as the exceptional nation, unlike the ever cautious Russians, would
have immediately made bombastic threats and then launched military attacks to protect its
“security interests.” (Warring to “protect” security interests has
replaced invasion and occupation to save souls.) Things would have escalated from there to
its predestined thermonuclear climax, as they will in the real world if Uncle Sam
doesn’t get a grip on his uncontrolled aggression, demanding whatever he wants whenever
he wants it at the point of a gun. The world seems to be circling the drain whether or not
Washington is allowed to micromanage the affairs of Russia, China, Iran and every last duchy,
principality and people’s republic in addition to its own monumental mess it calls
domestic affairs. We’ve only got two political parties in this madhouse and they are
both equally bent on destroying civilisation if they can’t rule it all, which seems to
be the only point they agree on. Each party thinks it preferable to allow an obscenely rich
oligarch (what else should we call Trump or Bloomberg?) from the other side to rule rather
than a “communist” like Bernie Sanders or a “naive peacenik” like
Tulsi Gabbard to be elected president. If the space aliens land tomorrow and start recruiting
colonists to populate newly terraformed planets in other solar systems, sign me up. Yeah,
it’s become that absurd down here.
Simply imperial rot and corruption of power on all sides.
Neither Democrats nor Republicans have an exclusive on those qualities.
Mark Thomason , February 14, 2020 at 12:37
This is a useful approach. It needs added to it the language and culture element: as if
the part that wants out of the Moscow coup shares our own language and culture, while the
rest of Canada does not, and the rest of Canada had gone on a spree to suppress that language
and culture. It is hard to find a parallel in Canada to those facts, but it is what happened
in Ukraine.
It is important to understanding to put oneself in the shoes of the other guys. It was
once called walking a mile in the other guy’s moccasins, and given a Native wisdom
attribution.
Poroshenko has asked the US for help with criminal cases in the Ukraine, writes
media
05:31
MOSCOW, 1 Jul – RIA Novosti.The former President of the Ukraine Petro
Poroshenko is in Istanbul, where he has turned to American companies to lobby for protection
from criminal cases, reports "
Ukraine News " with reference to sources.
It has been noted that in the Ukraine changes have been made as regards the criminal
cases against Poroshenko. In particular, in May 2019, the former-president's lawyer Igor
Golovan stated that these criminal cases would not entail any legal consequences, but now
Poroshenko's entourage realizes that the criminal prosecution of the former president has
noticeably intensified and may have consequences.
Therefore, according to the newspaper, in Turkey Poroshenko has started to lobbying
U.S. companies, in particular, the BGR group, for assistance in resolving these
cases.
"He is well aware that everything that happens in the RRG (State Bureau of
investigation – trans. ed.) is taken very seriously, and he intends to defend himself
against attacks. He can, for example, be expecting public support in Washington if there is
an attempt made to arrest him", said the source.
In addition, the publication cites the words of Ukrainian political scientist Alexei
Yakubin, who has noted that Poroshenko could repeat the "Saakashvili scenario".
"For example, he'll leave for treatment in London, where part of his entourage has
entrenched itself. But this model complicates the public protection of his business assets
within the country, which assets might be seized", he said.
The case against Poroshenko
Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards
his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo",
his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial
power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in
the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and
the seizure of power.
In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the
Euromaidan protests in 2014.
Poroshenko himself, speaking at the party congress of "European Business", said that he
is responsible only before the Ukrainian people and is not afraid of persecution.
Quite right, old man; keep your chin up. I daresay they're staying in quite prestigious digs
in Istanbul, as befits visiting royalty. He seems to be labouring under a misapprehension
that he is valuable somehow to Washington, whereas that would only be true if Washington were
unwilling to work with Zelenskiy, and wanted him out of the way. So far as I can see,
Washington is quite satisfied with Zelenskiy so far, while the people would not countenance a
Poroshenko return. So he's not really much use, is he? Especially if the USA wishes to
publicly support Zelenskiy's supposed battle with official corruption.
I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it,
what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I
would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious
interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor
fired.
Yes, I was sort of getting at the probability that Clan Poroshenko is just installed in a
very nice hotel. I doubt he will want to be plunking down money for an actual property so
long as the status of his assets still in Ukraine is still up in the air. I should imagine
the Ukrainian government will take steps, if it has not already, to prevent his simply
withdrawing their cash value.
The thing about the pindosi, though, is that they always hedge their bets .
I vangize that they will pressure Zel to pardon Porky. So that they have a spare.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.
I doubt it, simply because it would kick the timbers right out from under Zelenskiy's
anti-corruption platform, which is the issue on which he was voted in, and there would be no
way to do it under the radar. The Ukrainian people must be following Porky's flight with
great interest, and inferring that it means he has something to hide. Therefore an abrupt
discontinuing of the pursuit, and a refocusing elsewhere, would tell them accountability is
not attributed to the powerful and wealthy. Which is uhhh exactly the opposite of Zelenskiy's
message.
They are not helping Ukraine citizen of which after 2014 live in abject poverty. So in now
way this an aid. They are arming Ukraine to kill Russians and maintain a hot spot on Russian
border.
The USA, specifically Brennan, Nuland and Biden create civil war out of nothing pushing far
right nationalist to suppress eastern population by brute forces (they burned alive 200 hundred
or more people on Odessa and killed people in Mariupol before Donbass flared up)
They are despicable MIC bottomfeeders. Neocon calculation is that Russia will not respond to
this provocation, because it is too weak after the economic rape of 1991-2000. While Putin is a
very patient politician they might be wrong.
Notable quotes:
"... Authored by James Bovard via JimBovard.com, ..."
"... "corruption is positively correlated with aid received from the United States." ..."
"... "I think it makes no sense to give aid money to countries that are corrupt." ..."
"... " remains skeptical after a history of broken promises [from the Ukraine govt]. Kiev hasn't successfully completed any of a series of IMF bailout packages over the past two decades, with systemic corruption at the heart of much of that failure." ..."
"... "Most foreign aid winds up with outside consultants, the local military, corrupt bureaucrats, the new NGO [nongovernmental organizations] administrators, and Mercedes dealers." ..."
"... James Bovard is the author of " ..."
"... Attention Deficit Democracy ..."
"... The Bush Betrayal ..."
"... Terrorism and Tyranny ..."
"... ," and other books. Bovard is on the USA Today Board of Contributors. He is on Twitter at @jimbovard. His website is at ..."
The campaign to convict and remove President Donald Trump in the Senate hinges on delays in
disbursing U.S. aid to Ukraine. Ukraine was supposedly on the verge of great progress until
Trump pulled the rug out from under the heroic salvation effort by U.S. government bureaucrats.
Unfortunately, Congress has devoted a hundred times more attention to the timing of aid to
Ukraine than to its effectiveness. And most of the media coverage has ignored the biggest
absurdity of the impeachment fight.
The temporary postponement of the Ukrainian aid was practically irrelevant considering that
U.S. assistance efforts have long fueled the poxes they promised to eradicate –
especially
kleptocracy, or government by thieves .
A 2002 American Economic Review analysis concluded that
"increases in [foreign] aid are associated with contemporaneous increases in corruption" and
that "corruption is positively correlated with aid received from the United
States."
Then-President George W. Bush promised to reform foreign aid that year,
declaring , "I think it makes no sense to give aid money to countries that are
corrupt." Regardless, the Bush administration continued delivering billions of dollars in
handouts to
many of the world's most corrupt regimes .
Then-President Barack Obama, recognizing the failure
of past U.S. aid efforts, proclaimed at the United Nations in 2010 that the U.S. government
is "
leading a global effort to combat corruption ." The following year, congressional
Republicans sought to restrict foreign aid to fraud-ridden foreign regimes. Then-Secretary of
State Hillary Clinton wailed that restricting handouts to nations that fail anti-corruption
tests "has
the potential to affect a staggering number of needy aid recipients."
The Obama administration continued pouring tens of billions of U.S. tax dollars into
sinkholes such as Afghanistan, which even its president, Ashraf Ghani, admitted in 2016 was
"one of the
most corrupt countries on earth ." John Sopko, the Special Inspector General for Afghan
Reconstruction (SIGAR), declared that "U.S.
policies and practices unintentionally aided and abetted corruption" in Afghanistan.
Since the end of the Soviet Union, the U.S. has provided more than $6 billion in aid to
Ukraine. At the House impeachment hearings, a key anti-Trump witness was acting U.S. ambassador
to the Ukraine, William B. Taylor Jr. The Washington Post hailed Taylor as someone who "
spent much of the 1990s telling Ukrainian politicians that nothing was more critical to
their long-term prosperity than rooting out corruption and bolstering the rule of law, in his
role as the head of U.S. development assistance for post-Soviet countries." A New York Times
editorial
lauded Taylor and State Department deputy assistant secretary George Kent as witnesses who
"came across not as angry Democrats or Deep State conspirators, but as men who have devoted
their lives to serving their country."
After their testimony spurred criticism, a Washington Post headline
captured the capital city's reaction: "The diplomatic corps has been wounded. The State
Department needs to heal." But not nearly as much as the foreigners supposedly rescued by U.S.
bureaucrats.
The Wall Street Journal reported on Oct. 31 that the International Monetary Fund, which has
provided more than $20
billion in loans to Ukraine, " remains
skeptical after a history of broken promises [from the Ukraine govt]. Kiev hasn't
successfully completed any of a series of IMF bailout packages over the past two decades, with
systemic corruption at the heart of much of that failure."
The IMF concluded that Ukraine continued to be vexed by " shortcomings
in the legal framework, pervasive corruption, and large parts of the economy dominated by
inefficient state-owned enterprises or by oligarchs." That last item is damning for the U.S.
benevolent pretensions. If a former Soviet republic cannot even terminate its government-owned
boondoggles, then why in hell was the U.S. government bankrolling them?
Transparency International, which publishes an annual Corruption Perceptions Index, shows
that corruption
surged in Ukraine in the late 1990s (after the U.S. decided to rescue them) and remains at
abysmal levels. Ukraine is now ranked as the 120th most
corrupt nation in the world -- a lower ranking than received by Egypt and Pakistan, two
other major U.S. aid recipients also notorious for corruption.
Actually, the best gauge of Ukrainian corruption is the near-total collapse of its citizens'
trust in government or in their own future. Since 1991, the nation
has lost almost 20% of its population as citizens flee abroad like passengers leaping off a
sinking ship.
And yet, the House impeachment hearings and much of the media gushed over career U.S.
government officials despite their strikeouts. It was akin to a congressional committee
resurrecting Col. George S. Custer in 1877 and fawning as he offered personal insights in
dealing with uprisings by Sioux Indians (while carefully avoiding awkward questions about the
previous year at
the Little Big Horn ).
Foreign aid is virtue signaling with other people's money. As long the aid spawns press
releases and photo opportunities for presidents and members of Congress and campaign donations
from corporate and other beneficiaries, little else matters. Congress almost never conducts
thorough investigations into the failure of aid programs despite their legendary pratfalls. The
Agency for International Development ludicrously evaluated its programs in Afghanistan based
on their "burn rate" – whether they were spending money as quickly as possible,
almost regardless of the results. SIGAR's John Sopko "found a USAID lessons-learned report from
1980s on Afghan reconstruction but nobody at AID had read it
."
After driving around the world, investment guru Jim Rogers declared: "Most foreign
aid winds up with outside consultants, the local military, corrupt bureaucrats, the new NGO
[nongovernmental organizations] administrators, and Mercedes dealers." After the Obama
administration promised massive aid to Ukraine in 2014,
Hunter Biden jumped on the gravy train – as did legions of well-connected
Washingtonians and other hustlers around the nation. Similar largesse assures that there will
never be a shortage of overpaid individuals and hired think tanks ready to write op-eds or
letters to the editor of the Washington Post whooping up the moral greatness of foreign aid or
some such hokum.
When it comes to the failure of U.S. aid to Ukraine, almost all of Trump's congressional
critics are like the "
dog that didn't bark " in the Sherlock Holmes story. The real outrage is that Trump and
prior presidents, with Congress cheering all the way, delivered so many U.S. tax dollars to
Kiev that any reasonable person knew would be wasted. If Washington truly wants to curtail
foreign corruption, ending U.S. foreign aid is the best first step.
paying billions to corrupt Jewish Ukranians is just another way to support Israel.
Christian Zionists understand and approve of this. So what's the big deal? It's free money.
Money that grows on trees. What does it cost to print billions of free money by a few
electronic entries? Nothing. We should print more. Free **** is a beautiful thing.
We can postpone judgment day for at least another decade or so. By then, all the smart
Harvard educated guys and gals at Goldman Sachs and Wall Street will figure out how to kick
the can down the road for another decade or so.
When it all collapses, half of India and Africa and central America will already have
replaced what used to be the American population. The few remaining Americans aside from the
immigrants will be unrecognizable anyway. many will have left. Many more will have been
reduced by failure to procreate and replace themselves. Christians will be a despised,(even
the idiotic Zio-Christians who looked the other way on important issues as long as we were
bombing and killing for their beloved Israel) We will have a dying population as many will
have chosen the gay LGBTQ lifestyle and we are replaced by subservient obedient, uneducated
immigrants who are happy to work for $8 an hour and live in a single room apartment they
share with other immigrant families.
Ukraine was a failed state since day one and it got much worse since US/EU instigated
coup. I don't see any light at the end of tunnel. Zielensky is a more friendly face, but
that's it. He obviously doesn't have power to change the course. He can promise anything
while abroad, but he has to appease the nazis at home or they will get rid of him. In other
words Ukraine is doomed.
Zielensky is more than friendly face...he signed many deals with Putin and behave as
responsible politician who wanna bring normalization and peace. Same forces overthrow
Yanukovitch will try it with Zielensky, because they not wanna peace, but their interest is
war....so Zielensky is in danger.
Ukraine has biggest potential of all countries. Has richest on a planet soil, educated
European population, is poor so money go long way. And of course bridge to forcing Russia
being our ally, and adhere to nationalism, vs being corrupted by globalists.
No ****, it's absurd. The Wretched City was practically unanimous in the screeching about
sending weapons to Ukraine because Crimea voted to join Russia, something they describe up
there as being "annexed". Especially so now because since then Iraq voted to kick the US out
of their country and has been ignored, themselves being "annexed".
This is something that is accepted to a certain degree as a result of Bob Mueller.
Crimea is military important for their security...that why they had naval base there..they
cant afford lose this point and Black Sea....
Soviets were not willing to colonize these satelites like Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. they
were relevant after ww2 and Russians were scared of another war...day they become irrelevant
thanks of new weapons they abandon these states.
I know they are corrupted one...but USA is careless toward Ukraine fortunes...they use
them to provoke conditions to create cold war two...military industry need big enemies for
sake of hundreds bilions usd profits...how would you explain your citizens you pay one third
of budget and no enemies??? so Deep state want cold war two.
More than milion Ukrainians left to Russia...while EU has closed Ukrainian borders...so
who care more of Ukrainian people?
Russians were victims of all of this...red line was Crimea...and Putin did
right...otherwise Russian nuclear security would be doomed if you allow NATO troops to
Crimea.
US politicians not do it first time...did you know most wealthy Kosovian is Magdalene All
Bright?? i live in postcommunist state and whole my life witness western proxies stealing all
valuable stakes here....Communism created state ownership of big industries...domestic
politicians alongside western snakes steal it very ugly way.IN SO CALLED PRIVATIZATION..wheather it is Poland, Czechoslovakia,
Hungary, Romania etc. even information networks are owed by westeners....we are absolutely
blackmailed.
Russians and partly Ukrainians did not allow foreigers to entry ...they tried it..here and
there something got, whole 90s was going on this big fight among Russians and plus western
snakes for stakes....Putin created order in it alongside Russian oligarchy and
normalization....that why Russians like him.
Are these idiotic Democrats and Russia haters crazy?
Russia has a population and GDP roughly the same as Mexico and they're on the other side
of the planet (unless you're in Alaska). There is exactly zero chance Russia will invade or
attack Western Europe or the USA.
The USA should be concerned with the USA, and not whether Russia will act to safeguard its
border.
When Soviet Union left...military industry for sake of their profits needed to create big
enemy....they created terrorism and islamic wars......now as it failing apart they need new
enemies..big one to explain you why is necessary to give one third of your taxes into
military toys...so they create conflicts around China and Russia with hope to dig in into
cold war two.
Russians and Chinese have not big corporate bussines behind their military...their
spending is tiny compared to US military industry profits....so they have no interest in
wars...while US seek them.
Be aware Americans...your military is not only milking you, but risking of whole humanity
throwing into military disasters even as an accidents . Putin explained it many
times...computer supersystems can be activated so easily if some misteps happen...
If Quid Pro Que is legal, then the swamp is drained. The swamp isn't doing anything wrong.
They have been following the law all this time. Ask the president.
An unexpected bit of good news (if true) from the Ukrainian International Airlines Flight
PS752 crash in Tehran: one of the passengers killed on the flight was a businesswoman who ran
two companies involved in running illegal arms and parts for military drones to Libya.
Well, well; and the Ukrainian government backed her claims that there was no military cargo
aboard the company plane that was blown up in Misrata. Makes you wonder how much
jiggerypokery on the part of the Ukrainian government the USA is prepared to absorb,
considering it was allegedly Solemani's plans to 'hurt Americans' that caused the USA to
whack him. But here is a business associate of the Ukrainian government transferring military
technology to tribal warlords in Libya.
Oh, I forgot – the USA needs to fight Russia in Ukraine so that it doesn't have to
fight Russia in New York. So I guess that means they get a free pass.
You have to wonder though, Malakhova was one of two Ukrainian passengers (I think) on a jet
that was otherwise composed of diaspora Iranians. The plane was flying to Kiev and then
presumably going straight to Toronto, to judge from the number of Iranian-background
passengers with Canadian passports. What business did Malakhova have that she had been in
Tehran to catch a UIA flight to go to Kiev? She must have had a reason to be there, if not to
go sightseeing.
Lo and behold! Able to answer my own query about the reason for Malakhova's presence in
Tehran within a matter of minutes! She wasn't in Tehran just to admire the touristy sights.
Air taxis would be very convenient for ferrying small quantities of goods on short trips
within Iran or from Iran to somewhere else not far from the Iranian border – like
Afghanistan on one side, Azerbaijan on another side or Kurdish-held northern Iraq and Turkey
on yet another side.
An intricate balancing act – back when Yanukovych was running Ukraine, it was so
corrupt, you couldn't believe it. Now that Ukraine's elections are free and fair, and an
informed and savvy electorate makes wise and free choices, it's well, it's .how can we put
this? It's not worse, of course it's not worse. It's more bad, like.
"More than 100 people died in Kiev during clashes between protestors and security
forces until finally, Yanukovych fled to Russia in February 2014.
An interim government was put in place and elections were held. But the instability
created a vacuum. Russia annexed Crimea; organised crime flourished.
Already vulnerable to corruption, Ukraine's institutions of state stumbled. Human
trafficking and drug-running syndicates became emboldened, seizing profit-taking
opportunities wherever they lay. In the north and the west of the country, there were few as
lucrative as amber."
That's the abbreviated version, of course, without going into details on the heroism of
the 'heavenly hundred' and Yanukovych's iron fist. But after the brutal dictator was driven
out – more than 5 fuckin' years ago, I feel obliged to point out – well,
Ukrainian state institutions 'stumbled'.
Oh, is that what you call it when the people's standard of living falls off a cliff and
stays there? Has the Ukrainian living standard ever reached the level it was when Yanukovych
was last in power? Not even close. The currency remains in the toilet, and the government has
regularly ratcheted up utility costs in compliance with the IMF's instructions, in order to
qualify for further handouts. Quite an extended stumble, you might say.
Only two companies are authorized to trade in amber in Ukraine; a single small and unnamed
private company, and the much larger state-owned Ukrainian Amber. The latter declared only
720 kg annually of the annual 300 tonnes extracted in 2016 and 2017. 90% of extracted
Ukrainian amber is stolen and sold for criminal proceeds. Poroshenko and Zelensky have
certainly made tremendous inroads on corruption.
Impeachment: Trump Team Nails Bidens, Burisma, And Obama's Hot-Mic Moment With Russia by
Tyler Durden Mon,
01/27/2020 - 20:05 0 SHARES
President Trump's defense team cut straight to the heart of the impeachment on Monday,
insisting that Democrats have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the Bidens didn't engage
in textbook corruption in Ukraine - and that President Trump's request to investigate it was
out of line.
Former Florida attorney general Pam Bondi, a recent addition to the White House
communications team, walked the Senate through the entire malarkey for 30 minutes , including Hunter Biden's 'nepotistic at
best, nefarious at worst' board seat at Ukrainian gas giant Burisma.
"All we are saying is that there was a basis to talk about this, to raise this issue, and
that is enough," said Bondi, who noted that Hunter Biden was paid over $83,000 per month to sit
on Burisma's board even though he had zero experience in natural gas or Ukrainian relations
while his father was Vice President and in charge of Ukraine policy for the United States.
Trump attorney Eric Herschmann said that Democrats have been "circling the wagons" to
protect the Bidens - and are refusing to investigate the Bidens, claiming without conducting an
investigation that all allegations against them are 'debunked.'
Herschmann then laid into former President Obama, who was caught on a hot mic asking Russian
President Dmitry Medvedev for "space" until after his election .
One can only imagine what would happen if the Left & the media applied their
manufactured outrage to Obama's actions & statements.
Remember when Obama was caught asking Russian President Dmitry Medvedev for "space" until
after his election?
"... Taylor exaggerates what the conflict is about by saying that Ukraine is defending "the West." That's not true. Ukraine is defending itself. The U.S. does not have a vital interest in this conflict, but Taylor talks about it as if we do. He says that the relationship with Ukraine is "key" to our national security, but that is simply false. To say that it is key to our national security means that we are supposed to believe that it is crucially important to our national security. That suggests that U.S. national security would seriously compromised if that relationship weakened, but that doesn't make any sense. We usually don't even talk about our major treaty allies this way, so what justification is there for describing a relationship with a weak partner government like this? ..."
"... The op-ed reads like a textbook case of clientitis, in which a former U.S. envoy ends up making the Ukrainian government's argument for them ..."
"... To support Ukraine is to support a rules-based international order that enabled major powers in Europe to avoid war for seven decades. It is to support democracy over autocracy. It is to support freedom over unfreedom. Most Americans do. ..."
"... These make for catchy slogans, but they are lousy policy arguments. This rhetoric veers awfully close to saying that you aren't on the side of freedom if you don't support a particular policy option. In my experience, advocates for more aggressive measures use rhetoric like this because the rest of their argument isn't very strong. It is possible to reject illegal military interventions of all governments without wanting to throw weapons at the problem. ..."
"... Taylor has set up the policy argument in such a way that there seems to be no choice, but the U.S. doesn't have to support Ukraine's war effort. He oversells Ukraine's importance to the U.S. to justify U.S. support, because an accurate assessment would make the current policy of arming their government much harder to defend. Ukraine isn't really that important to U.S. security and our security doesn't require us to provide military assistance to them. Of course, our government has chosen to do it anyway, but this is just one more optional entanglement that the U.S. could have avoided without jeopardizing American or allied security. ..."
ormer ambassador William Taylor wrote an op-ed on Ukraine in
an attempt to answer Pompeo's question about whether Americans care about Ukraine. It is not
very persuasive. For one thing, he starts off by exaggerating the importance of the conflict
between Russia and Ukraine to make it seem as if the U.S. has a major stake in the outcome:
Here's why the answer should be yes: Ukraine is defending itself and the West against
Russian attack. If Ukraine succeeds, we succeed. The relationship between the United States
and Ukraine is key to our national security, and Americans should care about Ukraine.
Taylor exaggerates what the conflict is about by saying that Ukraine is defending "the
West." That's not true. Ukraine is defending itself. The U.S. does not have a vital interest in
this conflict, but Taylor talks about it as if we do. He says that the relationship with
Ukraine is "key" to our national security, but that is simply false. To say that it is key to
our national security means that we are supposed to believe that it is crucially important to
our national security. That suggests that U.S. national security would seriously compromised if
that relationship weakened, but that doesn't make any sense. We usually don't even talk about
our major treaty allies this way, so what justification is there for describing a relationship
with a weak partner government like this?
The op-ed reads like a textbook case of clientitis, in which a former U.S. envoy ends up
making the Ukrainian government's argument for them. The danger of exaggerating U.S. interests
and conflating them with Ukraine's is that we fool ourselves into thinking that we are acting
out of necessity and in our own defense when we are really choosing to take sides in a conflict
that does not affect our security. This is the kind of thinking that encourages people to spout
nonsense about "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here." If we view
Ukraine as "the front line" of a larger struggle, that will also make it more difficult to
resolve the conflict. When a local conflict is turned into a proxy fight between great powers,
the local people will be the ones made to suffer to serve the ambitions of the patrons. Once
the U.S. insists that its own security is bound up with the outcome of this conflict, there is
an incentive to be considered the "winner," but the reality is that Ukraine will always matter
less to the U.S. than it does to Russia.
If this relationship were so important to U.S. security, how is it that the U.S. managed to
get along just fine for decades after the end of the Cold War when that relationship was not
particularly strong? As recently as the Obama administration, our government did not consider
Ukraine to be important enough to supply with weapons. Ukraine was viewed correctly as
being of
peripheral interest to the U.S., and nothing has changed in the years since then to make it
more important.
Taylor keeps repeating that "Ukraine is the front line" in a larger conflict between Russia
and the West, but that becomes true only if Western governments choose to treat it as one. He
concludes his op-ed with a series of ideological assertions:
To support Ukraine is to support a rules-based international order that enabled major
powers in Europe to avoid war for seven decades. It is to support democracy over autocracy.
It is to support freedom over unfreedom. Most Americans do.
These make for catchy slogans, but they are lousy policy arguments. This rhetoric veers
awfully close to saying that you aren't on the side of freedom if you don't support a
particular policy option. In my experience, advocates for more aggressive measures use rhetoric
like this because the rest of their argument isn't very strong. It is possible to reject
illegal military interventions of all governments without wanting to throw weapons at the
problem.
Taylor has set up the policy argument in such a way that there seems to be no choice, but
the U.S. doesn't have to support Ukraine's war effort. He oversells Ukraine's importance to the
U.S. to justify U.S. support, because an accurate assessment would make the current policy of
arming their government much harder to defend. Ukraine isn't really that important to U.S.
security and our security doesn't require us to provide military assistance to them. Of course,
our government has chosen to do it anyway, but this is just one more optional entanglement that
the U.S. could have avoided without jeopardizing American or allied security.
Former vice president Joe Biden's extraordinary campaign memo this week imploring U.S. news
media to reject the allegations surrounding his son Hunter's work for a Ukrainian natural gas
company makes several bold declarations.
The memo
by Biden campaign aides Kate Bedingfield and Tony Blinken specifically warned reporters
covering the impeachment trial they would be acting as "enablers of misinformation" if they
repeated allegations that the former vice president forced the firing of Ukraine's top
prosecutor, who was investigating Burisma Holdings, where Hunter Biden worked as a highly
compensated board member.
Biden's memo argues there is no evidence that the former vice president's or Hunter Biden's
conduct raised any concern, and that Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin's investigation was
"dormant" when the vice president forced the prosecutor to be fired in Ukraine.
The memo
calls the allegation a "conspiracy theory" (and, in full disclosure, blames my reporting for
the allegations surfacing last year.)
But the memo omits critical impeachment testimony and other evidence that paint a far
different portrait than Biden's there's-nothing-to-talk-about-here rebuttal.
Here are the facts, with links to public evidence, so you can decide for yourself.
Fact:
Joe Biden admitted to forcing Shokin's firing in March 2016 .
It is irrefutable, and not a conspiracy theory, that Joe Biden bragged in
this 2018 speech to a foreign policy group that he threatened in March 2016 to withhold $1
billion in U.S. aid to Kiev if then-Ukraine's president Petro Poroshenko didn't immediately
fire Shokin.
"I said, 'You're not getting the billion.' I'm going to be leaving here in, I think it was
about six hours. I looked at them and said: 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not
fired, you're not getting the money,'" Biden told the 2018 audience in recounting what he told
Poroshenko
"Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the
time," Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event.
Fact: Shokin's prosecutors were
actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.
While some news organizations cited by the Biden memo have reported the investigation was
"dormant" in March 2016, official files released by the Ukrainian prosecutor general's office,
in fact, show there was substantial investigative activity in the weeks just before Joe Biden
forced Shokin's firing.
The corruption investigations into Burisma and its founder began in 2014. Around the same
time, Hunter Biden and his U.S. business partner Devon Archer were
added to Burisma's board , and their Rosemont Seneca Bohais firm began receiving regular
$166,666 monthly payments, which totaled nearly $2 million a year. Both banks
records seized by the FBI in America and Burisma's own
ledgers in Ukraine confirm these payments.
To put the payments in perspective, the annual amounts paid by Burisma to Hunter Biden's and
Devon Archer's Rosemont Seneca Bohais firm were 30 times the average median annual household
income for everyday Americans.
For a period of time in 2015, those investigations were stalled as Ukraine was creating a
new FBI-like law enforcement agency known as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau ((NABU) to
investigate endemic corruption in the former Soviet republic.
There was friction between NABU and the prosecutor general's office for a while. And then in
September 2015, then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt demanded more action in the
Burisma investigation. You can read
his speech here . Activity ramped up extensively soon after.
In December 2015, the prosecutor's files show, Shokin's office transferred the evidence it
had gathered against Burisma to NABU for investigation.
In early February 2016, Shokin's office secured a court order allowing
prosecutors to re-seize some of the Burisma founder's property, including his home and luxury
car, as part of the ongoing probe.
Two weeks later, in mid-February 2016, Latvian law enforcement
sent this alert to Ukrainian prosecutors flagging several payments from Burisma to American
accounts as "suspicious." The payments included some monies to Hunter Biden's and Devon
Archer's firm.
Latvian authorities recently confirmed it sent the alert.
Shokin told both me and
ABC News that just before he was fired under pressure from Joe Biden he also was making
plans to interview Hunter Biden.
Fact: Burisma's lawyers in 2016 were pressing U.S. and
Ukrainian authorities to end the corruption investigations.
Burisma's main U.S. lawyer John Buretta acknowledged in
this February 2017 interview with a Ukraine newspaper that the company remained under
investigation in 2016, until he negotiated for one case to be dismissed and the other to be
settled by payment of a large tax penalty.
Documents released under an open records lawsuit show Burisma legal team was pressuring the
State Department in February 2016 to end the corruption allegations against the gas firm and
specifically invoked Hunter Biden's name as part of the campaign. You can read those documents
here .
In addition, immediately after Joe Biden succeeded in getting Shokin ousted, Burisma's
lawyers sought to meet with his successor as chief prosecutor to settle the case. Here is
the Ukrainian prosecutors' summary memo of one of their meetings with the firm's
lawyers.
Fact: There is substantial evidence Joe Biden and his office knew about the Burisma
probe and his son's role as a board member .
The New York Times reported in
this December 2015 article that the Burisma investigation was ongoing and Hunter Biden's
role in the company was undercutting Joe Biden's push to fight Ukrainian corruption. The
article quoted the vice president's office.
In addition, Hunter Biden acknowledged
in this interview he had discussed his Burisma job with his father on one occasion and that
his father responded by saying he hoped the younger Biden knew what he was doing.
Fact: Federal Ethics rules requires government officials to avoid taking policy actions
affecting close relatives.
Office of
Government Ethics rules require all government officials to recuse themselves from any
policy actions that could impact a close relative or cause a reasonable person to see the
appearance of a conflict of interest or question their impartiality.
"The impartiality rule requires an employee to consider appearance concerns before
participating in a particular matter if someone close to the employee is involved as a party to
the matter," these rules state. "This requirement to refrain from participating (or recuse) is
designed to avoid the appearance of favoritism in government decision-making."
Fact:
Multiple State Department officials testified the Bidens' dealings in Ukraine created the
appearance of a conflict of interest .
In
House impeachment testimony , Obama-era State Department officials declared the
juxtaposition of Joe Biden overseeing Ukraine policy, including the anti-corruption efforts, at
the same his son Hunter worked for a Ukraine gas firm under corruption investigation created
the appearance of a conflict of interest.
In fact, deputy assistant secretary George Kent said he was so concerned by Burisma's
corrupt reputation that he
blocked a project the State Department had with Burisma and tried to warn Joe Biden's
office about the concerns about an apparent conflict of interest.
Likewise, the House Democrats' star impeachment witness, former U.S. Ambassador Marie
Yovanovich, agreed the Bidens' role in Ukraine created an ethic issue. "I think that it
could raise the appearance of a conflict of interest," she
testified. You can read her testimony
here .
Fact: Hunter Biden acknowleged he may have gotten his Burisma job solely because
of his last name .
In
this interview last summer , Hunter Biden said it might have been a "mistake" to serve on
the Burisma board and that it was possible he was hired simply because of his proximity to the
vice president.
"If your last name wasn't Biden, do you think you would've been asked to be on the board of
Burisma?," a reporter asked.
"I don't know. I don't know. Probably not, in retrospect," Hunter Biden answered. "But
that's -- you know -- I don't think that there's a lot of things that would have happened in my
life if my last name wasn't Biden."
Fact: Ukraine law enforcement reopened the Burisma
investigation in early 2019, well before President Trump mentioned the matter to Ukraine's new
president Vlodymyr Zelensky .
This may be the single biggest under-reported fact in the impeachment scandal: four months
before Trump and Zelensky had their infamous phone call, Ukraine law enforcement officials
officially reopened their investigation into Burisma and its founder.
The effort began independent of Trump or his lawyer Rudy Giuliani's legal work. In fact, it
was NABU -- the very agency Joe Biden and the Obama administration helped start -- that
recommended in February 2019 to reopen the probe.
NABU director Artem Sytnyk
made this announcement that he was recommending a new notice of suspicion be opened to
launch the case against Burisma and its founder because of new evidence uncovered by
detectives.
Ukrainian officials said that new evidence included records suggesting a possible money
laundering scheme dating to 2010 and continuing until 2015.
A month later in March 2019, Deputy Prosecutor General Konstantin Kulyk officially filed
this
notice of suspicion re-opening the case.
And Reuters recently quoted Ukrainian officials as saying the
ongoing probe was expanded to allegations of theft of public funds.
The implications of this timetable are significant to the Trump impeachment trial because
the president couldn't have pressured Ukraine to re-open the investigation in July 2019 when
Kiev had already done so on its own, months earlier.
Establishment Democrats are gaslighting people. This is not a qualitative improvement over
what the establishment Republicans do. In fact, it makes the establishment republicans
correct when the gaslighting is pointed out. The Trump Derangement Syndrome and corrupt basis
of the Democrats only helps get Trump re elected. The Democrats have no better plan, and thus
will be responsible if Trump gets re elected.
They're all scumbags, at all levels, and if you ain't used to it by now, you've been
living under a rock. That said, it's nice to have some reporting on it and I hope all levels
of government abuse will get exposed. I'm assuming it's about the same time the little bug
eyed broad takes a job at an oil company...
~"I said, ‘You’re not getting the billion.’ I’m going to be
leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: ‘I’m
leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the
money,’” Biden told the 2018 audience in recounting what he told Poroshenko
“Well, son of a bitch, he got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at
the time,” Biden told the Council on Foreign Relations event."
Isn't this the same fuckin thing as???... **** it, nevermind
Yet nobody has been arrested, indicted, or accused of anything except in odd corners of
the internet. Although, there have been a couple of fake show investigations.
So, the only conclusion I can draw is it's legal if the Democrats or Establishment do it.
And anyone who says otherwise needs to be jailed, ruined, or murdered, such as in the case of
Seth Rich.
All members are press, state department, and American oligarchs. Trust ME, I know what
goes on there. Investigate them ALL and keep all of the investigation interviews in an open
public domain.
Force people to distance themselves and quit membership and you can pick them off as they
conspire to reform their separate working groups.
Facts? Democraps don't care about facts, don't you know that already? Democraps only care
about feeeeeelings, and how it makes someone feeeeel... Facts are just those things they just
discard, and then hope that we the Sheeple have short memories. Biden? Guilty as sin. Facts?
Ignore. Same as Cankles, Comey, Strozk, Page, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum. If you're a
Democrap, you get off scot free, then lie about everything.
Here is the cardinal rule about government -- everything it says through its
spokespersons, hired guns, public relations adepts, and the mockingbird corporate media should
be considered a self-serving lie, or at best a distortion hammered into shape to fit a
predefined agenda.
For instance, we should question who is ultimately responsible for the shootdown of the
Ukrainian airliner in Tehran following the assassination of Qassem Soleimani.
Former CIA military intelligence officer
Philip Giraldi believes there is a possibility Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752
was a false flag designed to put further pressure on the government of Iran and feed the USAID
"opposition" to the mullahs.
Giraldi writes "there just might be considerably more to the story involving cyberwarfare
carried out by the U.S. and possibly Israeli governments."
False Flag? Fmr CIA Officer Suggests US Hacked Ukrainian Plane Transponder To Provoke Iran
Shootdown https://t.co/DHpDjGrIGf
What seems to have been a case of bad judgements and human error does, however, include
some elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly
experienced considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched off and stopped
transmitting several minutes before the missiles were launched. There were also problems with
the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.
Giraldi explains the
SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be hacked or
"spoofed," permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take control. The
United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies "that can fool enemy
radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets." Fooling the system also means
fooling the operator. The Guardian has also reported independently how the United States
military has long been developing systems that can from a distance alter the electronics and
targeting of Iran's available missiles.
Naturally, this possibility is not even mentioned by the corporate war propaganda media,
with the notable exception of The Guardian. Instead, we are pelted with tweets and news
articles purporting to show just how angry the Iranian people supposedly are over the
shootdown, accidental or otherwise.
Kimia Alizadeh, the only Iranian woman to win an Olympic medal, announced that she had
defected. She is part of growing public outrage in Iran after the military admitted to
shooting down a Ukraine International Airlines jet. https://t.co/NkwtCTP0yw
The establishment media, long-serving as war propagandists, would have you believe the
people of Iran care more about the shootdown of an passenger airliner than the four-decade long
economic war against them waged by the USG, Israel, and Saudia Arabia -- a war that has the
possibility of breaking out into a conflict that will kill far more than the 176 who died when
two missiles hit flight PS752.
This reminds me of a murderous trick pulled by the Israelis. In September 2018, Syrian
anti-aircraft defenses shot
down a Russian military plane near the Hmeimim airbase where the Russians stage military
operations against USG supported terrorists in Syria (and invited, along with Iran and
Hezbollah, to do so by Syria, unlike the illegal American occupation and the apparently endless
Israeli air raids).
"A Russian military spokesman said Israeli F-16 pilots were using the Russian plane as a
shield while carrying out missile strikes against targets in Syria's Latakia province and put
it in the line of fire from Syrian anti-aircraft batteries," The
Guardian reported at the time.
Russia's defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, told a senior Israeli official that Israel bore
"full responsibility" for the incident and the death of the Russian crew, a military
spokesman said later on Tuesday. Israel's ambassador in Moscow was summoned to the Russian
foreign ministry over the incident.
Putin let it go, however, realizing that pushing the issue too far would worsen the conflict
and possibly result in further Russian casualities.
Such caution, however, cannot be attributed to the USG and certainly not Israel. Bibi
Netanyahu, the Israeli PM, said Bashar al-Assad and the Syrians were solely responsible for the
attack.
No such caution or diplomacy can be expected from the USG and its current loudmouth
know-nothing president, Donald Trump. The death of nearly two hundred people is simply an
excuse to whip up hysteria and push forward the covert war against Iran.
First and foremost, when you read the "news" dispensed by the war propaganda media, you
should assume, unless otherwise proven and verified independently, that what they say about
Iran and the Middle East is nothing less than a carelessly and hastily assembled pack of lies,
distortion, and omissions, all designed to destroy Iran and kill thousands, possibly millions
of innocent men, women, and children.
*
Note to readers: please click the share buttons above or below. Forward this article to your
email lists. Crosspost on your blog site, internet forums. etc.
Kurt Nimmo writes on his blog, Another Day in the Empire, where this article was
originally published. He is a frequent contributor to Global Research.
"The accidental and most regrettable downing of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight
PS-752, may involve more than human error under incredibly tense conditions. With the plane's
IFF transponder switched off, the Tor missile defense system, which had reverted to manual
operation because of an unknown source jamming communications, would have automatically
identified the plane as "hostile". The Iranian missile operator, unable to contact higher-ups
for verification due to the disrupted communications and given the high level of alert, had
little basis to question the hostile tag applied by Tor to the aircraft.
Given that the US military has known capabilities to alter or mask IFF transponder
signals, as does the Israeli regime, it is entirely possible that this tragedy, which led
some protesters to blame the Iranian government, may have been deliberately caused by the US
in collusion with its Zionist ally in hopes of triggering their goal of regime change.
While no clear evidence of tampering with the transponder has surfaced as yet, it is known
that the 737-800, whose registration or "tail number" was UR-PSR, was photographed at the
Israeli entity's Ben Gurion Airport five times since March of 2017, the last time being on
October 18, 2019 at approximately 2:40 in the afternoon."
Smith@36 - PressTV: "..With the plane's IFF transponder switched off,..."
Civilian aircraft have ATC SSR radar transponders, not military IFF
transponders.
IFF aircraft interrogations are ALWAYS military only and ALWAYS encrypted. Their only job,
if used by the TOR, is to confirm that a radar target was an Iranian military aircraft. PS752
1) couldn't understand encrypted TOR IFF interrogations, 2) wouldn't be able to provide
encrypted replies to any TOR IFF interrogations, and 3) would still be considered "not an
Iranian military aircraft" by the TOR. PS752's transponder would need a military IFF
encoder/decoder which it does not have.
Likewise, TORs and their acquisition radars DO NOT have civilian ATC SSR radar
capabilities to identify civilian aircraft. They do NOT interrogate civilian aircraft for ID,
altitude, GPS or any other information, nor do they listen for civilian aircraft ADS-B
broadcasts which also provide that information.
Surveillance radars higher up in the air defense network may have civilian aircraft ID
capability and can assign appropriate IDs to radar targets BEFORE they appear on the TORs
radar screen, but that requires a good data link to the network. That encrypted data link
(also used for voice communications) was down at the time, and any ID information that may
have been assigned by higher layers of the Iranian AD network wouldn't have appeared on the
TOR or been considered by its classification and targeting software.
Sorry - I don't know how else to explain this. PressTV doesn't understand the distinction,
nor does it understand the TORs capabilities.
But the article was flimsy even by Russiagate standards, and so certain questions inevitably
arise. What was it really about? Who's behind it? Who's the real target?
Here's a quick answer. It was about boosting Joe Biden, and its real target was his chief
rival, Bernie Sanders. And poor, inept Bernie walked straight into the trap.
The article was flimsy because rather than saying straight out that Russian intelligence
hacked Burisma, the company notorious for hiring Biden's son, Hunter, for $50,000 a month job,
reporters Nicole Perlroth and Matthew Rosenberg had to rely on unnamed "security experts" to
say it for them. While suggesting that the hackers were looking for dirt, they didn't quite say
that as well. Instead, they admitted that "it is not yet clear what the hackers found, or
precisely what they were searching for."
So we have no idea what they were up to, if anything at all. But the Times then quoted
"experts" to the effect that "the timing and scale of the attacks suggest that the Russians
could be searching for potentially embarrassing material on the Bidens – the same kind of
information that Mr. Trump wanted from Ukraine when he pressed for an investigation of the
Bidens and Burisma, setting off a chain of events that led to his impeachment." Since Trump and
the Russians are seeking the same information, they must be in cahoots, which is what Democrats
have been saying from the moment Trump took office. Given the lack of evidence, this was
meaningless as well.
But then came the kicker: two full paragraphs in which a Biden campaign spokesman was
permitted to expound on the notion that the Russians hacked Burisma because Biden is the
candidate that they and Trump fear the most.
"Donald Trump tried to coerce Ukraine into lying about Joe Biden and a major bipartisan,
international anti-corruption victory because he recognized that he can't beat the vice
president," the spokesman, Andrew Bates, said. "Now we know that Vladimir Putin also sees Joe
Biden as a threat. Any American president who had not repeatedly encouraged foreign
interventions of this kind would immediately condemn this attack on the sovereignty of our
elections."
If Biden is the number-one threat, then Sanders is not, presumably because the Times sees
him as soft on Moscow. If so, it means that he could be in for the same neo-McCarthyism that
antiwar candidate Tulsi Gabbard encountered last October when Hillary Clinton blasted her as
"the favorite of the Russians." Gabbard had the good sense to
blast her right back.
"Thank you @Hillary Clinton. You, the queen of warmongers, embodiment of corruption, and
personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally
come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy, there has been a
concerted campaign to destroy my reputation. We wondered who was behind it and why. Now we know
– it was always you, through your proxies and powerful allies in the corporate media and
war machine ."
If only Sanders did the same. But instead he put out a statement filled with the usual
anti-Russian clichés:
"The 2020 election is likely to be the most consequential election in modern American
history, and I am alarmed by new reports that Russia recently hacked into the Ukrainian gas
company at the center of the impeachment trial, as well as Russia's plans to once again meddle
in our elections and in our democracy. After our intelligence agencies unanimously agreed that
Russia interfered in the 2016 election, including with thousands of paid ads on Facebook, the
New York Times now reports that Russia likely represents the biggest threat of election meddle
in 2020, including through disinformation campaigns, promoting hatred, hacking into voting
systems, and by exploiting the political divisions sewn [sic] by Donald Trump ."
And so on for another 250 words. Not only did the statement put him in bed with the
intelligence agencies, but it makes him party to the big lie that the Kremlin was responsible
for putting Trump over the top in 2016.
Let's get one thing straight. Yes, Russian intelligence may have hacked the Democratic
National Committee. But cybersecurity was so lax that others may have been rummaging about as
well. (CrowdStrike, the company called in to investigate the hack, says it found not one but
two cyber-intruders.) Notwithstanding the Mueller report, all the available evidence
indicates
that Russia did not then pass along thousands of DNC emails that Wikileaks published in July
2016. (Julian Assange's statement six months later that "our source
is not the Russian government and it is not a state party" remains uncontroverted.) Similarly,
there's no evidence that the Kremlin had anything to do with the $45,000 worth of Facebook ads
purchased by a St. Petersburg company known as the Internet Research Agency – Robert
Mueller's 2018 indictment of the IRA was completely silent
on the subject of a Kremlin connection – and no evidence that the ads, which were
politically all over the map, had a remotely significant impact on the 2016 election.
All the rest is a classic CIA disinformation campaign aimed at drumming up anti-Russian
hysteria and delegitimizing anyone who fails to go along. And now Bernie Sanders is trying to
cover his derrière by hopping on board.
It won't work. Sanders will find himself having to take one loyalty oath after another as
the anti-Russia campaign flares anew. But it will never be enough, and he'll only wind up
looking tired and weak. Voters will opt for the supposedly more formidable Biden, who will end
up as a bug splat on the windshield of Donald Trump's speeding election campaign. With
impeachment no longer an issue, he'll be free to behave as dictatorially as he wishes as he
settles into his second term.
After inveighing against billionaire's wars, he'll find himself ensnared by the same
billionaire war machine. The trouble with Sanders is that he thinks he can win by playing by
the rules. But he can't because the rules are stacked against him. He'd know that if his
outlook was more radical. His problem is not that he's too much of a socialist. Rather, it's
that he's not enough.
"... I appears to me that Biden stepped into something and it's stuck to his foot. IMPOTUS never seeming to have the ability grasp victory from the jaws of defeat failed, again and stepped into the same mess. ..."
"... Viktor Shokin said under oath in a case in Austria that he was investigating Burisma and that's why Biden had him fired ..."
"... We now know that whenever Biden virtue signals, the exact opposite applies. When he talks about how democratic we are, or about transparency and what not, it's because we are not. Snake Oil salesman. ..."
"... So basically Joe Biden did everything that the Democrats accuse Trump of doing. And Biden is so brazen about the whole thing, he brags on tape at the Council of Foreign Relations and admits to his crime. And Biden is running for president? Image if people like Rachel Maddow did this kind of reporting and truly informed the citizens about the abuses in our own gov't instead of the establishment bullshit she has been spewing for years. We are a banana republic. ..."
"... Biden is the poster boy for nepotism and corruption. ..."
"... This report provides overwhelming evidence that Joe Biden intervened directly to coerce the president of Ukraine to fire an honest and competent prosecutor general, and to put in place a corrupt one. ..."
A new documentary by Olivier Berruyer, editor of the website les-crises.fr , released in conjunction with Consortium
News on Monday, sorts out the complicated scandal and the role Joe Biden played in it.
Great video, thanks. I fear you may have misinterpreted the word "solid" in Biden's
statement. I believe he meant something more like "reliable", in the sense of being compliant
with US wishes. The opposite of 'not corrupt' really. Look at the body language, and it's the
CFR, ffs.
robert e williamson jr , January 15, 2020 at 21:06
Right on Joe Lauria !
I have watched this video three times. A long cast of characters with similar, unfamiliar
names here, some making multiple appearances.
I appears to me that Biden stepped into something and it's stuck to his foot. IMPOTUS
never seeming to have the ability grasp victory from the jaws of defeat failed, again and
stepped into the same mess.
A case exists to fry both Biden and the IMPOTUS over the same fire in their own fat,
greedy little piggy's. Great stuff for non-partisans.
I absolutely agree with you, and we (a very small French team, I mostly researched material
in Russian and Ukrainian) didn't do this documentary to help your president, and I don't
think it will. It could be the opposite, depending on what happens with the primaries.
We're
French (not Russian hackers, LOL!), what matters is that there are wrongdoings that had not
been investigated properly until us, and therefore we had a great opportunity to do something
serious to let the public know the truth, and make a name for ourselves in the process. If
this series does go viral (and I have hopes it will :) ), then, well, it could generate
enough donations for us to continue investigating, on other subjects. That would be really
cool.
Stay tuned on ukrainegate.info for the next episodes :)
A one minute teaser you can share is available on twitter.com/Ukraine_Gate/
Again, thank you for the compliment, you made me smile.
Eugenie Basile , January 15, 2020 at 02:01
I guess this makes Biden the most solid candidate MSM and DNC can deliver.
DW Bartoo , January 16, 2020 at 15:07
Much appreciation to Olivier Berruyer, les-crises.fr, and CN.
Genuine investigative journalism of the highest order.
(The truth is a powerful gift and critically necessary to empowering understanding, which
might even allow the many to find both the courage and imagination to bring about needful
change and even permit humanity to have a future, that is not corrupted by crony finance
capitalism, endless war, and a global political class intent on extraction on all levels, but
rather is premised upon humane and sustainable behaviors and fundamental moral principles
that value life above brute domination and cooperation above violent tyrannical
oppression.)
Putting U$ MSM, for which only money and sycophantic propaganda pandering is all that
matters, to well-deserved shame.
Jonathan Marshall , January 14, 2020 at 19:39
Here's another take from Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine's Anti-Corruption
Action Center, who is quoted in this video:
"Lutsenko and prosecutor Konstantin Kulik have been giving Giuliani information on this case
purely with an agenda to save their careers, inventing the story about the Biden
investigation."
In 2016, Vice President Biden demanded that Ukraine fire Prosecutor General Victor Shokin,
who Trump might have called a "very good prosecutor," but he was seen by reformers in Kyiv as
a disaster. A year earlier, Kalemniuk's watchdog organization had pushed to dismiss Shokin
for neglecting multiple corruption cases.
"Here is why I do not say anything about Hunter Biden," Kaleniuk explained. "Vice President
Biden called for Ukraine to fire Shokin not because of the Burisma investigation, absolutely
not, but because Ukraine's prosecutor general did not investigate Burisma. U.S. Ambassador
Geoffrey Pyatt insisted [in early 2016] that Shokin should be investigating Burisma.
The U.S.
government had a clear position: The Burisma probe was killed by Shokin."
Viktor Shokin said under oath in a case in Austria that he was investigating Burisma and
that's why Biden had him fired. Are we supposed to believe the Daily Beast over sworn
testimony? The idea that Biden got ride of Shokin because he wouldn't investigate his son's
company is way too fantastic to believe.
Jason M Homer , January 15, 2020 at 13:00
Interesting until realizing your sourcing your information from the Daily Beast. Please
find new sources of information. The Daily Beast has been repeatedly proven to be pure
propaganda.
Clark M Shanahan , January 15, 2020 at 21:49
BTW: Chelsea Clinton is on the Daily Beast's board of directors.
We now know that whenever Biden virtue signals, the exact opposite applies. When he talks
about how democratic we are, or about transparency and what not, it's because we are not.
Snake Oil salesman.
Erin , January 14, 2020 at 16:59
I can't wait to see part 2. When is that coming out? This is an incredible deep dive into
the whole stinking Urkrainegate/Biden issue. I paused the film several times because there is
so much information provided.
So basically Joe Biden did everything that the Democrats accuse
Trump of doing. And Biden is so brazen about the whole thing, he brags on tape at the Council
of Foreign Relations and admits to his crime. And Biden is running for president? Image if
people like Rachel Maddow did this kind of reporting and truly informed the citizens about
the abuses in our own gov't instead of the establishment bullshit she has been spewing for
years. We are a banana republic.
I almost think the Democrats are deliberately sandbagging Biden with the impeachment
farce. They know he would likely lose as Hillary did, but he feels "entitled" like she did,
so they think this will finish him once and for all.
Our government is useless.
VallejoD , January 15, 2020 at 13:42
Agreed. Biden is the poster boy for nepotism and corruption.
Thank you very much for the compliment!
Part 2 is ready (and it's fun!), if everything is OK you'll see it next week, if you stay
tuned to ukrainegate.info and/or twitter.com/Ukraine_Gate
Don't hesitate to share and help us go viral :)
Brewer , January 14, 2020 at 16:13
Spent this morning promoting this documentary on my regular alt-media haunts and sent it
to journos and politicians I know. Strongly urge others to do likewise. MSM already blocking
it so it is important to get it out there.
Many thanks to Consortium News. A real scoop.
It's not surprising that the the CEO of Burisma, Mykola Zlockevsky looks like a mobster.
What kind of a person heads a fossil fuel company, an enterprise hell bent on increasing CO2
emissions? not someone you'd like to bump into in a dark alley.
Ruth Harris , January 14, 2020 at 14:48
Some points to ponder:
1. Biden was sent to Ukraine with the backing of both parties in congress and the IMF to
remove Shokin in exchange for $5 Bn in aid to the Ukrainian gas industry.
Question: Was any of that money intended for or received by Burisma?
2. Hunter Biden's position at Burisma facilitated connections with a NATO think tank, the
Atlantic Council, which was the recipient of million$ from Burisma.
Question: Did any of that money originate from the aid money?
3. The Atlantic Council, an anti Russian organization, sits amid a web of US defense
contractors, Raytheon and Lockheed, producers of the Javelin missiles, being two of them.
Some of the $300 + million Trump withheld, was to purchase those weapons.
Question: What part did the Atlantic Council and those defense contractors play in the
whistle blowing incident that revealed Trump's quid pro quo?
consortiumnews(dot)com/2019/10/14/dcs-atlantic-council-raked-in-funding-from-hunter-bidens-corruption-stained-ukrainian-employer-while-courting-his-vp-father/
Desmond , January 14, 2020 at 18:29
Excellent questions. Thank you.
Dianne Foster , January 15, 2020 at 04:07
Interesting. So far, I only knew that Biden and McCain enabled Nuland to replace
Yanukovich with a neo-Nazi-filled government in 2014. Thus to re-start the Cold War with
Russia .0
Fred Grosso , January 14, 2020 at 14:05
Thank you for this information. I don't think this vindicates Trump. It shows how he fits
so nicely into our corrupt politics. He is of value because he commits immoral acts that he
believes others have committed, but he doubles down and he is ruthlessly transparent. Biden
is what he is and not as he is presented to us by the media and his gang. How we get the
fanatical supporters of these corrupt demons to stop empowering them is a puzzling
dilemma.
" The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of
monsters."
rosemerry , January 14, 2020 at 14:01
I would be delighted to see Facebook allowing "The Magnitsky Act-Behind the Scenes", as
NOBODY else online is allowed to or brave enough to let the truth be told about that Browder
action.
Frank Munley , January 14, 2020 at 12:07
I do not use FB for sending links. I hardly use my FB account at all. But I did access
ukrainegate.info through my Safari browser. I noticed immediately that there is an 8:50 short
summary of the video posted by CN. I hope there is a transcript of the longer version,
because like some others, I don't like to watch videos.
Thank you very much for the compliment!
For the next episodes, see ukrainegate.info
There's also a one-minute teaser on twitter.com/Ukraine_Gate that you can share to help us go
viral.
Linda C , January 14, 2020 at 11:06
Corruption has tarnished Joe Biden. He is no longer a viable Democratic candidate in the
U.S. This is what Trump was after, even if it was for his own political gain. Impeaching one
president and preparing to elect another crooked one is what American politics looks like
these days. Ukraine doesn't have a corner on the market of corruption.
Mike from Jersey , January 14, 2020 at 17:49
Linda,
Biden is unfit for office.
The problem is that the Corporate Media will suppress info like this.
I very much appreciated this video, that clearly confirms how corrupt Biden would be were
he elected president.
I tried to send a donation to the French company that investigated and produced this and
have not yet figured out a way to do that.
Please suggest an alternative link.
Iovleff , January 15, 2020 at 10:48
The page is in french but after filling the form (first name, second name, . In fact you
can put what you want, there is no check)
and clicking on the button "Faire un don avec Paypal", you will be able to donate
Thank you very much for your compliment (I'm one of the few members of the investigative
team), Adele, and thank you very much to Antiwar for providing the link. I hope it's OK to
repeat this link in clear www(dot)les-crises (dot)fr/support/
OK, I think this is the 4th thank you message I write, and I should stop here before CN bans
me for flooding the comment section, but I'm really extremely moved by all the compliments on
this page.
See you soon for the next videos :)
AnneR , January 14, 2020 at 10:41
Additional and hardly coincidental that NPR should use Area 1 Security as a "source" for
"insightful," "reliable and true" information (ho ho) Wikipedia (not itself a reliable,
unaffiliated source, but likely so in this case, informs that the Oren Falkowitz and his two
co-founders of this (supposed independent) cybersecurity firm, prior to their establishing
this "cybersecurity" company they (all three) worked for – guess who? – the US
National Security Agency (NSA). You know, that abominable snooping, spy cyber-agency that
hacked into everyone's cell/smartphone around the world, including Frau Merkel's.
You have to admire the hubris and arrogance of these men; and the reliance of the NPR on
their loyal audience members either fully accepting what any *American* cyber *security*
company says about the Reds, the black hats or should they bother to check out the Wiki that
audience trusting utterly anything and everything such men and their company say (and do).
Mind-boggling.
Charles K. Hof , January 14, 2020 at 10:34
And Joe Biden wants to be the US president. I also note Obama willing to go along with
this "change", and use funds for leverage. Unfortunately it seems this is how not only the US
but other countries work.
Trump is corrupt, and we may not like what he does, and yes he got caught. The fact that the
Republicans do not reign him in is equally as bad.
Enough of the "Old Gard and their version of Ethics/Morality"
AnneR , January 14, 2020 at 10:29
I'd much rather read than watch (bad for my eyes) or listen, so have missed out on this
revealing item. However, it is excellent that CN has posted the access to this video for
those more than willing to view (I'd love to read a transcript, mind) it.
Makes me wonder if the existence of this evidence has *anything* to do with NPR's Morning
Edition today and the new (?) "Russia (GRU) did it" story they are happily broadcasting about
the (purported) hacking of Burisma's email accounts. Their source of info? Some CA based
"cybersecurity" company called Area 1 Security. Yep, those scary, dastardly Russians (the
*only* country with hackers, let alone government funded hackers) have been at it again
– and, of course, they have had ill intent, just as they did vis a vis Killary's
election campaign
This is from NPR's website, what was said by the Security firm's co-founder: " "What we've
uncovered is that the same Russian cyber actors who targeted the DNC in 2016 have been
actively launching a phishing campaign against employees of Burisma Holdings and its
subsidiaries, to try to steal their email usernames and passwords," Area 1 co-founder Oren
Falkowitz tells NPR's Noel King."
Well, of course.
Just in case anyone in the US population begins to raise their head above the
Huxleyan-Orwellian propaganda and gets other ideas about what reality really looks like And
perhaps in preparation for an impeachment trial taking place in the Senate and the Biden
gangsters being subpoenaed .Gotta keep the lid on it.
DH Fabian , January 15, 2020 at 00:28
In fairness, Russia-gate is all that the Democrats have left to sell. They sold out their
values, and a good portion of their voters, years ago.
I don't usually watch longer videos but I watched this while working in the kitchen and it
was easy to follow and clearly laid out. I recommend it; you will gain even more insight into
the corruption of these evil people.
ML , January 14, 2020 at 09:12
Remember the older gentleman Merle Gorman, who Joe Biden savaged at an Iowa town hall
meeting a few weeks ago? The story ran on CBS nightly news one night. All the retired farmer
asked Joe was two questions: 1. That he himself at 83, knew he was too old to have the job of
president of the U.S. and how did Biden feel about his own age and job aspirations? 2. What
was the deal about Ukraine's Burisma hiring Hunter to their board when Hunter had no
experience in oil and gas? And Biden called him a "damned liar" and "fat," challenged him to
a physical competition and attacked Mr. Gorman terribly. It was a disgusting display by
Biden. Well, I looked up Merle in Hampton, Iowa and wrote him a letter, telling him he was a
hero for bringing these issues up so bravely in front of a big crowd. A couple weeks later, I
received a two page, hand-written letter from Mr. Gorman himself. Many Americans had written
or called him to offer their support. It was delightful to be able to converse with a fellow
American on this issue, a complete stranger who had the temerity to confront Biden directly
on his corruption. Mr. Gorman, I told you about Consortium News in my letter to you. So if
you are reading this, once again, BRAVO! Great video here that proves the point he so
courageously made at that Iowa town hall. And Joe is tanking. I hope he continues to
tank.
ML – I believe you are correct, that Biden is tanking, as he should be. However, the
democrats and their supine MSM are still holding him up as if he were a shoo-in to win the
nomination. CBS evening news tonight declared him way out in front, although other polls put
Sanders first and Biden way behind. There is only one reason the Dems and the media insist
that he is the front runner: because without that pretext, their entire impeachment hoax
would collapse. The President has every right to ask that an obviously corrupt senator
meddling in foreign affairs be investigated. It's only "illegal" IF that senator is his
political rival. But as long as Biden can't win the primary, that would pull the rug out from
under the entire impeachment hoax. So between now and the primary, we will hear and read
again and again that Biden is the front runner, the truth be damned.
VallejoD , January 15, 2020 at 13:50
Good for you! I was absolutely disgusted with Biden. The man is an ethical sinkhole and
then attacks an elder American citizen in the vilest way.
I would not vote for Biden to collect my trash.
James Whitney , January 14, 2020 at 08:18
Les Crises is the most important economic blog in France during the last several years. It
welcomed the well-known economist Jacques Sapir who had been kicked out of his previous blog
position for criticizing president Macron. One of the best features of Les Crises is the
people who leave excellent comments on the many articles published. I am one of these
commentators, although I comment a lot less often than some of the best (my comments
generally well received all the same).
Robyn , January 14, 2020 at 07:46
I agree with Dingleberry's rhetorical question about why people continue using FB etc. So
many people object to being spied on and lament social media's increasing censorship, yet
they keep on using them – just as they keep going to MSM sites. I'd like to see a huge
boycott of them all, even for just 24 hours.
People – take back the power.
Fran Macadam , January 14, 2020 at 07:28
You've been zucked.
countykerry , January 14, 2020 at 06:10
Joe, Joe say it ain't so !
Thank you for sharing this documentary with us, another example of the corrupt behavior of
Joe Biden.
And brought to us not by our own MSM but from France.
Michael Meo , January 14, 2020 at 02:02
This report provides overwhelming evidence that Joe Biden intervened directly to coerce
the president of Ukraine to fire an honest and competent prosecutor general, and to put in
place a corrupt one.
I am interested to see how the honest prosecutor was presented in European and American
mass media as corrupt. I donated 50 dollars, and hope to see the explanation in the second
installment.
mbob , January 13, 2020 at 23:14
This video is astonishing! I couldn't stop watching. I normally don't bother with videos,
since it's much faster to read than to watch and listen. And this video is very lengthy --
over 50 minutes.
But it's one of the most amazing and compelling things I've ever viewed.
I'll admit: I believe everything that Berruyer says and shows here. The video should
completely demolish Biden's candidacy. Although not very explicit about him, it sheds
enormous shade on Obama and on the impeachment hearing. It comes near to completely
vindicating Trump on the UkraineGate charge, while essentially convicting Biden of what Trump
was accused of.
I'll try to learn more about Berruyer to see if he is as objective as this video appears
to make him out to be.
And if he is . wow!
Thanks ConsortiumNews for finding and showing this. As I said, I've seen nothing like it.
And I'll make a contribution shortly.
If, as Ville from Finland write, the video violates Facebook's norms, then that opens up
very troubling issues in itself.
Thanks a lot ! You know, we are french, not americans. We are not politically motivated : we are not pro-democrats, or pro-republicans. We just try to be each day pro-journalism.
>>> " It comes near to completely vindicating Trump on the UkraineGate charge . .
."
I don't think that's true. Trump clearly used the leverage of withholding aid authorized
by Congress, in order to coerce Ukraine into taking action that would help his reelection
campaign. That's seriously bad stuff, regardless of the actions of the Biden family.
>>>". . . while essentially convicting Biden of what Trump was accused of."
Yes. It definitely does that.
John Wright , January 13, 2020 at 22:00
Excellent and important documentary that everyone should watch if they want to understand
the roots of UkraineGate.
Thanks for posting this CN !
michael , January 13, 2020 at 17:26
Excellent video! Ukraine is laughably corrupt. American politicians must feel they have
died and gone to Paradise!
Funny countries are laughably corrupt. USA is a serious country. American corruption is
.. [exercise for high school kids]
Paul , January 13, 2020 at 18:22
This was remarkable and important. Well done.
Eugenie Basile , January 14, 2020 at 08:30
I wonder if this falls under meddling with U.S. elections by a foreign agent providing
kompromat on a U.S. political frontrunner. Mr. Berruyer you are a very courageous man.
Best explanation I've seen yet of the 752 jet takedown. It was a false flag attack by the US
or its allies intended to frame Iran. The Iranian missile hit second after the plane had
already been hit by the Stinger and was several seconds from crashing anyway. The rich kids
of Tehran were in the housing complex at 6 AM to film the Stinger shootdown by their
terrorist buddies. They have properly been arrested. There have been other arrests too. I
wonder what they will come up with.
This makes more sense than any other theory I have seen.
Mike Javaras @82: The Iranian missile hit second after the plane had already been hit by
the Stinger ...
MANPADs like Stingers are heat-seeking. They go after ENGINES. On a big plane like PS732,
a MANPADs is unlikely to have stopped the transponder and communications.
Philip Giraldi points a finger at US/Israeli Electronic Warfare:
Giraldi thinks the transponder was hacked. But the article he cites also talks about a device
on board that would've allowed for EW. And he notes that Israel probably ALSO has the
capability to have been responsible for the EW and/or device on board.
MOSCOW – Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov stated there is unverified information
that at least six American F-35 jets were in the Iranian border area at the time when Tehran
accidentally downed Ukraine International Airlines flight PS752 last week.
Philip Giraldi, a former counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer of
the CIA, penned a piece in the
American Herald Tribune speculating that the U.S. launched several cyber-attacks, one on an
Iranian missile defense system, and another on the transponder of the doomed Ukrainian
plane.
Giraldi explains the Iranian missile operator experienced extreme "jamming" and Ukraine
International Airlines Flight 752's transponder was switched off several minutes before the two
Russian made Tor missiles were launched.
"The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the operator
and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that it was
hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming
American cruise missiles, then fired," he said.
Giraldi said the Tor missile system used by Iran is vulnerable to being hacked or "spoofed,"
and at the same moment, Flight 752's transponder was taken offline "to create an aviation
accident that would be attributed to the Iranian government."
The Pentagon has reportedly developed technologies that can trick enemy radars with false
and deceptively moving targets, he said.
"The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a
civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location.
The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter
signals relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel
presumably has the same ability," Giraldi said.
Iran made the
claim Wednesday that "enemy sabotage" cannot be ruled out in the downing of the plane.
Iranian Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi suggested the U.S. hacked missile defense systems to
make it appear Flight 752 was an incoming missile.
Iranian President Hassan Rouhani also accused the U.S. of being responsible for the downing
of the plane, saying that:
"The root of all sorrows goes back to America... this cannot be a reason for us not to
look into all the root causes."
He added that:
"One cannot believe that a passenger plane is struck near an international airport while
flying in a [commercial] flight channel," after previously saying that IRGC commanders were
not the only ones involved in the plane downing, noting that "There were others, too."
The Iranian parliament also stated that "we are in powerful confrontation with the criminal
U.S. and do not allow a mistake to pave the ground for misusing the issue by the enemies."
Giraldi concludes by saying electronic warfare by the U.S. to bring down a civilian jet and
blame it on Iran "suggests a premeditated and carefully planned event" to create a false flag
for the next world war.
Of course, Iran and the pilot of the plane had nothing to gain and everything to lose by
turning off the transponders, which makes it more than likely a third party was involved in
the downing of the plane. You don't need to be a genius to figure out who stood to gain by
killing all those civilians. Giving the black box to Ukraine, America's puppet state, was
probably a mistake.
Interesting - I have harbored the same opinion after seeing the nationalities of the
passengers and reviewing the 2 missile video. In fact, I believe that the plane was rigged
with a unit to turn off both the transponder and the communication system, and then to
trigger an explosive in the wing tank after missile launch (triggering mechanisms likely
externally enabled). Let's look at this:
1. Nationalities - could not find references to too many American citizens, but lot's of
Canadians; ie: no real exposure at home and this gives Trudeau (Trudope..) a headache to deal
with that brings him closer to the Neocon camp - a little payback for the hot mike moment at
the G7.
2. Iranians may be poorly trained and, at that moment, itchy fingered, but planes were
coming and going from that airport all day. What made this one special - no transponder
signal. Jamming is too easy to spot; it is much easier to install a remote kill switch on the
plane in Ukraine (you know, where the US has lot's of ground assets with access to sensitive
facilities like airports) and then turn off the transponder after leaving the Tehran
airport.
3. Black box shows that there were no communications from the plane to the airport
controllers or anyone else; yet, the crew was over staffed with competent flight crew. Note
the time between when the first missile detonates and when the fire is seen on the wing of
the plane; there is plenty of time for a competent aircrew to call off the attack, yet there
was only radio silence. Somebody also killed the radios, which means this was planned.
3. The Tor system is not that great. Note that they fired one missile, it detonated, and
there was no obvious visible effect on the plane. It was at that point that a second missile
was fired; again it detonated and again there was no obvious visible effect on the plane.
From the video, it appears that while the missiles may have caused damage, they do not appear
to have been catastrophic.
4. Because of point 3 above, it appears that the planners had a fail safe; that being an
explosive in the right wing (likely in the fuel tank as that is reasonably easy to insert),
and that was detonated several seconds after the second missile did not drop the plane, and
there was no third missile being launched at the airplane (perhaps the missile ground crew
figured out something was wrong because the target was not going evasive, or maybe they had
nothing else launch ready - unknown at this time). This would have had to have been detonated
remotely (any stealthy drones hiding in that night sky??).
5. Wing burn - This sequence of events would explain the videos of the attack; I have not
seen any other explanation for why the wing waited so long to suddenly erupt in flames (the
plane just took off - lots of fuel, yet the flight was not that long, so there were plenty of
fumes as well for hot shrapnel to ignite) after the second missile detonation. This just does
not make sense on a paper thin civilian target. Also, it does not appear (from the flame
morphology) that hot jet exhaust subsequently ignited leaking fuel (which could possibly
explain the delay between the second missile detonation and the appearance of the
fireball).
Finally, why did they do this? I doubt that it was to provoke war; likely it was to keep
the Iranians from hitting any further US targets by embarrassing the them internationally,
and at the same time setting Ukraine, their regional (and after the last election less than
completely compliant) client state against Iran while at the same time getting Canada in line
with US policy and giving its "true bearded dope" of a Prime Minister a black eye.
Another interesting note; the US has in depth penetration of both Canadian and Ukrainian
institutions, which is important as these two countries have the greatest claim to being an
integral part of the investigation, which means that by proxy the US has a ringside seat to
manage the obscuring of any unhelpful facts that may be uncovered. This is the mistake they
made with MH17, in that many of the passengers were Dutch, and thus the Dutch took the
investigative lead. Getting that report properly obscured cost them a lot of gold, and they
were not going to make the same mistake twice.
Any of these issues, taken individually, can be dismissed; however, taken together, the
package is just too sweet - that many things coming together "coincidentally" is beyond any
laws of probability that I have come across.
I suspect every member of the armed forces in Iran has been drilled with the knowledge the
USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger jet that supposedly had its transponder turned
off.
"It is sad that this incident happened and that 176 lost their life. But if one wants to
find a person guilty for it one must look for the person who caused the whole situation. That
person is not the lowly sergeant who pressed the button. That person is U.S. President Donald
Trump."
They admitted to shooting it down, the reasons are still unclear and the fact that this
plane was shot down while the country itself was expecting an attack from the US or Israel
only lends to speculation that there was more involved with this accident. Of course, your
mind is made up that the evil Iranians killed a bunch of people because they are moral
degenerates as the US and Israhell are forever seated on moral high ground.
"... When framed across the other unknown technologies that are powering the complex avionics on the Boeing 737-800, the US-China trade war and why so many economies are investing big monies in building their own GNSS, there is just a remote possibility that something sinister may be at play. ..."
"... When we examine the final seconds of the Ukrainian PS752 based on known data at this stage of the investigation, it resembles the final seconds of MH370, just before it disappeared from the radar and remains unaccounted for to this day. Could it be just another aviation coincidence? ..."
As more data are being released, there are already some glaring discrepancies that baffle
even aviation experts. When the doomed Ukrainian airliner, Flight PS752, switched from Tehran
Iman Khomeini International Airport to Mehrabad air traffic control at 2,400 meters, at a
position about 20 kilometers from the airport, it lost contact, just minutes before it was shot
down. Flight-path records show that the aircraft was making a turn back in the direction of the
airport.
Concurrently as this was taking place, the Iranians were firing missiles at Iraqi bases that
house US forces in retaliation for the killing of their general.
If the US has the intelligence to pinpoint with such accuracy what was happening to PS752
while its troops were being fired upon, it raises the question as to whether the US has managed
to circumvent the Iranians' GPS used for the rocket attacks on their troops and inadvertently
set the missiles on a wrong course.
While the Iranians may have the capability to jam or spoof territorial intrusions like in
2011, when they managed to override an American RQ-170 stealth drone and landed it on their
territory, it does not have the capability to shield its GPS fully from the US.
Even the Israelis, known for their military strength, do not have the capability to shield
their GPS fully from foreign interference. Last June, the Israel Defense Forces suffered such a
disruption. They attributed it to the Russians using a combination of jamming and spoofing
signal. Known as "smart jamming," this is used to deter drones and incursion risks over very
specific airspace. This disruption was detected by the GRID (GNSS Radio Frequency Interference
Detection) receiver on the International Space Station owned by the Naval Research Lab, Cornell
University, the University of Texas and Aerospace Corp.
Such jamming and spoofing can create hazards for civilian and commercial navigation. It can
also block military-grade equipment, as shown by the Russians in 2018 when they disrupted US
drones operating in Syria to gather intelligence.
Should the Iranians' GPS be compromised by the US, all its rocket launches will be misguided
by false data. Whether the US could deploy such a ruthless tactic against the Iranians begs
greater scrutiny by the international community, as this unfortunate incident has just too many
coincidences.
When framed across the other unknown technologies that are powering the complex avionics on
the Boeing 737-800, the US-China trade war and why so many economies are investing big monies
in building their own GNSS, there is just a remote possibility that something sinister may be
at play.
When we examine the final seconds of the Ukrainian PS752 based on known data at this stage
of the investigation, it resembles the final seconds of MH370, just before it disappeared from
the radar and remains unaccounted for to this day. Could it be just another aviation
coincidence?
... ... ...
Joseph Nathan has been the principal consultant with several consultancy agencies for 28 years in Singapore. For
Malaysia and Indonesia, he undertakes projects via JN Advisory (M) Sdn Bhd, covering real estate and infrastructure, aviation,
project and debt financing, and general business review (non-manufacturing). He holds an MBA from Macquarie Graduate School of
Management, Australia.
That too. Ukraine is a split country on pro/anti-Russian attitudes
Rather strong and somewhat anachronistic statement. Ukraine was split prior to 2014.
There are still pro-Russian areas but being free of Crimea and Donbas means Ukraine can no
longer be characterized as "split." Probably 1/4 of the population can be considered to be
politically friendly to Russia. Given, say, Latvia's ethnic Russian population, that country is
nowadays probably more "split" than Ukraine.
@AP d in
a frozen conflict zone. After they were fucked by industrial collapse and job loss. Before
that they were fucked by wars, famines and the Bolsheviks. They really can't seem to catch a
break.
Europeans seem to be on the precipice of disaster everywhere. It would be nice to band
together, rather than die while getting hung up on the narcissism of small differences.
Probably just wishful thinking on my part though. I guess Americans can't understand how
important it is for Ukrainians on one side of the Dniepr to show how different they are from
Ukrainians on the other or how different they are from Russians for that matter.
What seems to have been a case of bad judgments and human error does, however, include some
elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced
considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched
off and stopped transmitting
several minutes before the missiles were launched .
There were also problems with
the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.
The electronic jamming coming from an unknown source meant that the air defense system was
placed on manual operation, relying on human intervention to launch. The human role meant that
an operator had to make a quick judgment in a pressure situation in which he had only moments
to react. The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the
operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that
it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming
American cruise missiles, then fired.
The two missiles that brought the plane down came from a Russian-made system designated
SA-15 by NATO and called Tor by the Russians. Its eight missiles are normally mounted on a
tracked vehicle. The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an
independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system
functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents. Given
what happened on that morning in Tehran, it is plausible to assume that something or someone
deliberately interfered with both the Iranian air defenses and with the transponder on the
airplane, possibly as part of an attempt to create an aviation accident that would be
attributed to the Iranian government.
The SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be
hacked or "spoofed," permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take
control. The United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies "that can
fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets." Fooling the system also
means fooling the operator. The Guardian has also
reported independently how the United States military has long been developing systems that
can from a distance alter the electronics and targeting of Iran's available missiles.
The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a
civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location.
The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter signals
relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel presumably has
the same ability. Joe Quinn at Sott.net
also notes an interested back story to those photos
and video footage that have appeared in the New York Times and elsewhere showing the
Iranian missile launch, the impact with the plane and the remains after the crash, to include
the missile remains. They appeared on January 9 th , in an Instagram account called
' Rich Kids of
Tehran '. Quinn asks how the Rich Kids happened to be in "a low-income housing estate on
the city's outskirts [near the airport] at 6 a.m. on the morning of January 8 th
with cameras pointed at the right part of the sky in time to capture a missile hitting a
Ukrainian passenger plane ?"
Put together the Rich Kids and the possibility of electronic warfare and it all suggests a
premeditated and carefully planned event of which
the Soleimani assassination was only a part. There have been riots in Iran subsequent to
the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude. Some of the people
in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel,
i.e. "regime change." If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing
of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another
unprincipled actor with blood on its hands. There is much still to explain about the downing of
Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752.
Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National
Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation (Federal ID Number #52-1739023) that
seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.
Given this news, any impartial observer would at least entertain the possibility of
its truth, particularly given the lengthy track record of the United States/Israel in
perpetrating such crimes.
It's a good litmus test for determining where one's sentiment lies. Even "alternative
media" aren't likely to touch this story.
The Iranian Ambassador to Britain, Hamid Baeidinejad said in an interview on the UK Channel 4
news hours ago that although Iran had needed time to determine what had happened, it had now
accepted responsibility, would pay compensation, and the people who fired on the jet will be
put on trial.
If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani,
is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another
unprincipled actor with blood on its hands.
Both Trump and the Iranian regime have good domestic disquiet reason to rethink the
confrontational policy each are pursuing. Iran and the US could get closer over this. I think
the predictable unpredictability of assassination and catastrophic loss of life events
makes false flagging them of dubious value.
Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was
inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it
so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the
money was the chips, that's all.
(Sutton W, Linn E: Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber. Viking Press
(1976), p. 160)
I suppose it is possible there are people who get addicted to false flagging others'
deaths. If half of what is said in this site is true, Mossad really needs to set up a 12 step
program.
" .the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this
"videographer" standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o'clock in
the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The
airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to
film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests,
foreknowledge."
The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the
planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the
missiles were launched.
I vaguely recall reports of transponder issues arising during the shootdown of
MH-17.
Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly
an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities. Inexplicably, civilian
aircraft continued to take off and land even after Flight 752 was shot down.
The Iranian government is blameworthy for keeping planes in the air either because of
diabolical reasons (delays a counter attack) or economic (nearly $1 billion a year in
overflight fees).
However, the pilots of the airliners that took over during the morning between the first
missile hitting Iraq and the downing of the Ukrainian airliner were dumb and
irresponsible.
The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent
launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system
functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent
accidents.
Clearly you have no clue how an IFF operates and that no commercial airliner even has an
IFF on board. Every commercial aircraft looks like the enemy to this SAM
operator.
Also, you need to explain how spoofing a RADAR which creates a false track would cause the
shoot down. The missile would simply target the false track instead of the real aircraft.
You also need to explain how an old SAM missile site can be hacked or spoofed to shoot
down a civilian airliner. Especially this old one which has no Mode-S or ADS-B capability and
only radio communication capability.
As Mark Twain said, it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an
idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Even if this was a clear mistake on Iran's part, the US and Israel still have blood on their
hands for the downing of this plane. The missiles were launched in response to a targeted
killing of an Iranian general. If that didn't happen, these missiles never would've been
launched.
Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost.
I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani
to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.
@Anon Before calling someone an idiot it is better to follow Mark Twain's advice
yourself. A more careful reading reveals no claim that IFF was onstalled on the airliner. The
commenter does speculate that possible spoofing involved a false attribution of a real
airliner not the creation of a false airliner and radar track. Perhaps you are familiar with
"old" electronic countermeasures and not with the "new", "top secret" and spiffy versions
hinted at by the U.S. military?
@Quartermaster /An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the
claim that it quit transmitting "several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground
when it quit./
As it climbed and reached 4,600ft above ground level, the plane's transponder suddenly
stopped working at about 6.14am, 2 minutes or so after take off . [emphasis
added]
The plane was already airborne when the transponder stopped working.
@Onlooker Less than twenty replies into the thread and we've already got two individuals
attempting to distort the facts. Here's the key link that readers should visit:
The airliner had not been in the air long at all when it was shot down. An Airliner can
not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting
"several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit.
The flight departed Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airport at 02:42 UTC ( 06:12
local time ) and the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network at 02:44
UTC( 06:14 local time) . According to the report the aircraft climbed to 8000 feet and
turned right back toward the airport and crashed at 02:48 UTC ( 06:18 local time ) --
four minutes after the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network. –
Source
Flight Radar 24
Mr. Giraldi's original claim:
The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the
planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the
missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the
air defense command, which may have been related.
4 minutes after the transponders were switches off, the plane crashed .
Without [proper] access to the FDR and CVR, it's impossible to determine when the plane
was hit and how long it took to crash, exactly.
The plane was only flying at 8,000 feet [its normal {flight} ceiling is 30,000 feet and
above], so it's speed relatively low [cruise speed is between about 400 and 500 knots (460
– 575 mph / 740 – 930 kph), but the Ukrainian plane was still climbing] and the
fall back to Earth relatively quick.
On the clip where the plane is on fire and finally crashes, the downward angle looked to
be about 25 to 30 %, which is relatively steep. Time of downfall can be calculated when the
relative data is available.
Therefore, Mr Giraldi's claim " several minutes before the missiles were launched "
is technically correct , until proven wrong by data from the FDR and CVR,
The Tor system is too primitive to be hacked. It is a stand alone, autonomous and mostly
analog system. The radar signals it generates are shown on analog tube-screens.
Interesting theory by P. Giraldi. However, I am very surprised that Israel/Mossad role in
these acts of terrorism never mentioned. We know that Trump is a Zionist servant and acts on
instructions from his jewish fananciers. We know, Trump is incapable of serious thinking.
The Iranians took the hit because their missiles took out the airliner. And then, they could
stop the Western media crying for the next 6 mos. and this gave them time to bring in other
neutral investigators to look at the evidence and come up with logical scenarios. There is a
reason the black boxes weren't given to any one else to own – because they still
remember the scam investigation of MH 17. I f lew planes for over 20 yrs – Every
controlled/radared airport would ask me to turn on my transponder if it wasn't on –
Everyone of them. This plane not only came from Ukraine but was an easy target for a hack
from any of the big Intel countries. The BIG STORY here is that most every plane flying today
– can have the same type consequences!!! because of the Western War Machine.
Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives
lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured
Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.
Trudeau showed some real courage criticizing Trump and his terrible decisions.
More Western allies have to stand up to the Zionist stooge and call him out on his
treachery and stupidity.
@bobhammer Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Turn off Fox News now.
We are not always the good guys and we are up to our necks in deceit, plunder, and evil.
Our actions have harmed millions of people around the world and it has to stop.
It is time for more self-reflection as individuals and as a nation; and it is long past
time for us to be comfortable with lies.
@bobhammer The "uninterruptible" autopilot can be activated – either by pilots or
by on-board sensors, or by radio or satellite link<= connected to controls at the remote
end. Government agencies, quasi government agencies, military brats and probably the entire
group of privately operated NGOs and private party mobsters (bankers, corporations and
private military armies and privateers) at the remote end, can take over control of in-flight
Aircraft, and fly it, land it, take it off, whatever, even if the pilot sitting in the
cockpit objects. and does all he can to retrieve control from the remote operator.
Several comments report says interrupt able remote control, allows, persons on the ground,
to take from the pilot in a flying airplane, control of the airplane the pilot is suppose to
be flying, in situations for example when terrorist are in the cockpit. I have not read the
manufacture's literature nor do I have personal knowledge abut the equipment list of any of
these aircraft, the list suggest they are all aircraft, not only equipped with the UAP but
that they were all aircraft made by the same manufacturer. I am merely repeating what was on
stated as fact on a website I visited.
Many are looking for proof that remotely equipped uninterruptible autopilots are being
used as Remote Control weaponized drones . Imagine an pilot, located on the ground in
London or somewhere parks his /her remote ground to air control vehicle and takes over flight
control including turns on/off the transponder [<=which tells everyone where the plane is
during its flight] on a plane that is flying, landing or taking off from say the Tehran
airport in Iran?
My personal experience is that it generally takes less than 2 minutes after a transponder
is turned off during a planes flight, before fighter jets arrive to escort the transponder
disabled plane; so the whole system that protects civilian aircraft, and allows the military
to know the aircraft is civilian, is dependent on the Transponder, installed in the airplane,
to continuously squawk during flight, its exact position so that everyone can identify the
flight, and track the aircraft during its flight. Every land based control tower, ATC control
system center and military installation depends on that airborne squawking transponder to
track the en-route progress of commercial and private aircraft flights from take off to
landing.
Another comment made on that list referred to above claimed Uninterruptible Auto Pilot
[UAP] equipped aircraft have been involved in unexplained flight accident/disappearance
events (I have no personal knowledge about the equipment in these aircraft, I just repeated
here what someone else said elsewhere, please verify these claims yourself or provide
verification ) .
(4 @911) <=UAP allows pilot-less flights, no pilot need board the plane for its
flight.
(PS752) (transponder turned off, destroyed by confused ground defense crews)
MH370 (vanished into thin air)
MH17 (had its flight path altered.)
Eyes focus on Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (UAP) .. to explain recent Tehran 160 person
disaster?
This is really something to think about? Always the question has been how did four
military officers from Iran, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get
through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger
into the 9/11 events. Conspiracy theories suggest since no pilot is needed, there were no
pilots for TSA to screening. Remote control on the ground flew the aircraft to their
destinations.
Just about says it all doesn't it? What kind of people are we dealing with here? Of course
only the morons out there are still being fooled by these kind of false flags. Even in the
year 2020 these same morons still believe ZOG's 9-11 fairy tale and label any other theory as
a "conspiracy." Speaking of conspiracies the biggest idiots out there, even bigger than the
ones who believe ZOG's narrative or those type who believe the total wacktard stuff put out
by ZIO controlled disinfo puppets like Alex Jones.
Ukrainian commercial airline? What other nation besides Iran does ZOG have it in for? Is
it Russia?
War by deception? HARDLY to anyone with two brain cells left. These fools have been caught
before, they aren't that clever. What they are is protected by a syndicate of bought and paid
for politicians. They were caught attacking the USS Liberty, they were caught bombing
American and British installations in Egypt, the Rosenbergs and Pollard were nailed, but of
course despite all of this, America and her leaders continued the value Israel as a friend
and an ally. With a friend like Israel, who needs enemies. Then of course we have the story
of our 5 little dancing Israelis apprehended in NYC after being observed dancing and
celebrating the WTC towers collapsing. So you mean a group of Israelis from Israel, nation
that is ALLEGEDLY "friends" with America and America think it is hilarious and worth
celebrating when America is attacked and thousands are burned alive or jump to their death
from hundreds of feet above the street?? Of course "our" media quickly exonerated the
celebrating Israelis and buried that story faster than your average house cat buries his own
turds.
ZOG really thinks the average American has the IQ of a monkey. Even after the WMD caca
they still think you people will believe anything they tell you to believe. The sad part is
they are right about that with the majority of the population.
Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is a radar-based identification system designed for
command and control. It uses a transponder that listens for an interrogation signal and then
sends a response that identifies the broadcaster. It enables military and civilian air
traffic control interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as friendly
and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by both
military and civilian aircraft.
If such a capability exists would the US reveal and use it in such a minor circumstance.
Occam's razor suggests this was just another case of 'better safe than sorry' during a time
of military tensions. Not a whole lot different than the Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian
airliner that came too close during a military confrontation in the Gulf.
I would hate to know how many 'friendly' aircraft were shot down by over zealous AAA
gunners in WW2 but it wasn't just a handful.
Anybody who thinks that US-Israel wouldn't have been capable of staging such a horrific event
as the shooting down of the airliner by Iran hasn't been following Whitney Webb's continuing
articles which are available right here on UNZ. Israel seems to have insinuated itself into
about every computer security program worldwide.
Webb's article mentions large scale defense contractor Dell Computer's close connection to
the Israeli government. Dell computer head Michael Dell has personally made large
contributions to that curious "charity" called The Friends of The Israeli Defense Forces as
has Larry Ellison, head or Oracle Software. Interestingly enough, neither of them have made
correspondingly large contributions to American veterans however.
Michael Dell is probably one of the biggest (or the biggest) single contributors to the
Republicans from Texas, home of Dell computer. Larry Ellison (also a large government
computer contractor) is also one of the Republican Party's biggest contributors.
Ellison's $5.5 million dollar contribution to the Republican is dwarfed however, by his
recent contributions to The Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces which seem to total (as of
today) $31 million (or more).
Are both men and their companies security risks? Is there any doubt of this or are
contribution to charity connected to a foreign army now simply to be considered as being
benign and innocent.
Identification, friend or foe (IFF) is a radar-based identification system designed for
command and control. It uses a transponder that listens for an interrogation signal and
then sends a response that identifies the broadcaster. It enables military and civilian
air traffic control interrogation systems to identify aircraft, vehicles or forces as
friendly and to determine their bearing and range from the interrogator. IFF may be used by
both military and civilian aircraft.
Your Wikipedia snippet is absolutely incorrect . IFF is only used for Military
Aircraft. If you want to prove me wrong:
Provide a link to any civilian transponder with IFF capability
Provide a link to any civilian aircraft Minimum Equipment List
that requires an IFF
Vincennes shootdown of an Iranian airliner that came too close during a military
confrontation in the Gulf.
Doesn't it rile you, as a U.S. veteran, that American soldiers are dying in treasonous
service to an enemy nation?
Doesn't it bother you in the least, that Americans are on the hook for untold trillions of
dollars, so they can slaughter innocent people, thousands of miles away, whose only "crime"
is that a certain shitty little country, wants to see them all sent reeling into the stone
age, (which is exactly what they want for you too).
Have y0u ever bothered to notice just exactly whom it is that is driving all the
liberal-progressive shit we all see daily, with the ubiquitous homomania and Hollywood sewage
force-injected into America's culture?
I see you occasionally speak against that stuff, but then when it comes to American
soldiers dying on behalf of those rats, there you are, defending the narrative of Iran as bad
guys.
How many Iranians do you see pumping Hollywood sewage into America's veins?
How many Iranians do you see on Capital Hill, demanding Trump and all his Deplorables are
irredeemably racists? And need to have their guns taken away?
How many Iranians do you see at Goldman Sachs, (and the other 'Too big to fail Banksters)
looting the country dry?
How many Iranians do you see in our universities, force-feeding America's youth the
progressive-liberal monkey shit, they're paying to consume daily?
You'd have to be very myopic not to notice who it is behind America's depraved descent
into cultural and spiritual guano. (not to mention the Eternal Wars, that only an imbecile
could pretend not to notice ((who)) are behind them).
And I have a clue for you, it isn't the Iranians. In fact, they had a nice good taste of
((Western)) culture under the Shah, and they decided they'd rather not see their women whored
out, and their children spiritually dead husks.
It'd be good if people could lift the veils they willfully allow to cover their own eyes,
in some kind of misguided machismo about how tough "our" military are, as they're killing and
dying on behalf of their worst enemy.
@JimDandy Hpw did the instruction to "Fly direct" prove fatal to MH 17
MUMBAI: The ministry of civil aviation's claim that there was no Air India flight near the
ill-fated Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 when it was shot down over Ukraine on Thursday appears
misleading.
An Air India Dreamliner flight going from Delhi to Birmingham was in fact less than 25km away
from the Malaysian aircraft,
Minutes before the crash caused by a missile strike, the AI pilots had also heard the
controller give the Malaysian aircraft MH17 what is called "a direct routing". This permits
an aircraft to fly straight, instead of tracking the regular route which is generally a
zig-zag track that goes from one ground-based navigation aid or way point to another. "Direct
routing saves fuel and time and is preferred by pilots. In this case, it proved fatal," said
an airline source.
1 Was India pressurized to deny the close proximity and 2 was it under pressure to deny
that it heard the controller giving the instruction to MH 17????
FAA regulations require that all aircraft, military or civilian, flying at an altitude
of 10,000 feet or higher in U.S. controlled airspace, must be equipped with an operating
IFF transponder system capable of automatic altitude reporting (this is the reason that two
of the modes are used by both military and civilian aircraft).
So, did the Ukrainian plane have an IFF transponder or not? Ref?
what Giraldi has published doesn't even rise to the level of the most idiotic conspiracy
theory one can concoct.
It happened only a few months ago that an Israeli jet violated Syria's airspace and
deliberately sheltered behind a Russian Iliouchine IL-20 to get it shot down by Syrian
air defence.
It was so very clearly and simply explained by the Russian Chief of Staff than any
imbecile could understand it; the idiot is definitely you.
A civilian transponder will respond to almost any inquiry (or even a non-coded radar
pulse):
-- Standard civilian transponder code = USA military Mode 3.
-- Standard civilian transponder altitude reporting = USA military Mode C.
To reduce detectability in combat, the pilot can change the setting on a Military IFF
system to only squawk when a correctly coded interrogation signal is recieved.
Transponders are turned on and off with switches in the cockpit. Is Giraldi suggesting that
this transponder was equipped to be controlled from outside? Source of assertion that
transponder was turned off? Can he name any commercial transponder with this feature? Does he
know anythng about elctroic warfare? This sounds like the birthing of a conspiracy theory.
@DaveE The hilarious thing in Britain is that many people on the comments sections of MSM
will talk about 'Asian' or more specifically 'Muslim' child rape gangs, because these gangs
were heavily Muslim they can be referred to using the adjective 'Muslim'.
But when you point out that the ones beating the drums for war in Iran and who
successfully plunged America and UK into a long a protracted war in the Middle East are
mostly Jewish, as evidenced by this article in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz
they start getting all pissy, because of the Holocaust legend, Jews are now above scrutiny
and Jewish power cannot be talked about. It is the slipperly slope fallacy, what is merely
being advocated for here is not to trust a single thing that comes out of the mouth of a Jew
regarding the Middle East as there is a clear conflict of interest, not genocide.
I also suspect that peoples understandable antagonism towards Muslims has somehow made
them more sympathetic to Israel. Tommy Robinson is for example funded by rich Jews like Ezra
Levant of Rebel Media and Robert J. Shillman – who sits on the board of Friends of
Israel Defence Forces – shills for Israel. Now the Western goyim start frothing at
the mouth when they hear Muslim and so think countries like Iran are evil and out to destory
the West, a laughable claim.
You don't have to apologise. Christian Zionists are no Christians; they are uncultured,
criminal country-bumpkins utilised by their Zionist handlers to justify the destruction of
the twice-millenary Christian Arab community.
Here is what real Christians think:
Mor Maurice Amsih, Syrian Orthodox Bishop of Euphrates, demonstrating against the murder of
General Soleimani, calling Soleimani and his companions " martyrs " who are now
" Saints in the Heavenly Kingdom" for their blood shed freeing the Syrian
people from Zio-sponsored terrorists. [@ 0:25]
The Boeing jet broadcast the usual civil ADS-B signal but one has to expect that a
U.S. cruise missile can and would do the same.
although 'one can expect ' seems like one hell of an assumption.
This is absolutely irrelevant since the Iranian SAM missile launcher is so old it
can not even detect and decode ADS-B signals. Note that the requirement for ADS-B transponders
only came into effect this year .
By the account of Brigadier General Amir-Ali Hajizadeh:
1. Prior to the downing of the aircraft, Americans had threatened to hit 52 sites in
Iran.
2. These threats placed Iran's air defense systems on the highest alert level.
3. There were reports that cruise missles had been fired at Iran.
4. In spite of IRGC requests that airspace be cleared of commercial flights, those requests
were not met.
5. The air defense unit recognized Flight 752 as a cruise missle from a distance of 19
kilometers, but is still required to get approval to fire upon it.
6. When the operator attempts to get approval, he can not do so due to "disruption" of his
communication system.
7. The operator is forced to make an independent decision in a 10 second window of time and
fires upon the plane.
1. the SA-15 system has an IFF interrogator built into its radar system,
2. Boeing 737 aircraft are equipped with two IFF transponders, which are set and activated
prior to take off, and
3. it is possible for a plane to take off without an IFF transponder operating.
4. In spite of all this, the flight's recording on FLIGHTRADAR24.COM , proves that the transponder was on and
working.
5. Even if there was no IFF signal, a SA-15/TOR M-1 operator could still determine the
location, bearing, speed and size of the potential target.
6. The SA-15 also has an automatic all weather day/night NV/IR Electro Optical Targeting
System (EOTS) used for target engagement and fire control by which the plane would have been
easily identified.
7. Flight 752 should have been identifiable as a commercial airliner by its external lights
alone.
From this information, he concludes that either there are traitors within Iran seeking to
facilitate regime change or that the downing of Flight 752 was a false flag operation
perpetrated by the usual suspects.
I'd like to see more information about this topic from those qualified to speak about
it.
2. These threats placed Iran's air defense systems on the highest alert level
7. The operator is forced to make an independent decision in a 10 second window of time and
fires upon the plane.
How long were the operators on alert? Tension and sleep deprivation are a bad mix. This
looks like the crew on the ground had seconds to make a decision, and in the rush got it
wrong.
I'm not sure how anyone on the outside could tell if the operator made the launch by
mistake or from ill intent. No doubt the crew will be given the Richard Jewell treatment in
an attempt to deflect blame from the religious hierarchy.
1. the SA-15 system has an IFF interrogator built into its radar system,
Correct
2. Boeing 737 aircraft are equipped with two IFF transponders, which are set and
activated prior to take off, and
Incorrect The Boeing 737 aircrfat has two ATC Transponders only one of which is
activated prior to takeoff. The second ATC transponder is only activated if the first one
fails. An ATC Transponder is NOT an IFF transponder.
3. it is possible for a plane to take off without an IFF transponder operating.
Incorrect . A functioning ATC transponder is part the Boeing 737 Minimum Equipment
List which is available here . The only way the Ukraine Air crew could have gotten
around this requirement was to get prior permission from the Iranian Civil Aviation Authority
and EVERY other country's Cicil Aviation Authority in its flight path which I can guarantee
you would not be forthcoming.
5. Even if there was no IFF signal, a SA-15/TOR M-1 operator could still determine the
location, bearing, speed and size of the potential target.
Incorrect The operator could determine range, range rate. and bearing if the
transponder was not function.
6. The SA-15 also has an automatic all weather day/night NV/IR Electro Optical
Targeting System (EOTS) used for target engagement and fire control by which the plane
would have been easily identified.
The plane was at least 1.5 miles away (8000 ft altitude). You go get yourself a pair of
Night Vision/Infra Red scopes and see how well you do identifying different aircraft from
that distance
@Ron Unz One good article to show people in relation to the Israel Lobby's influence on
America's decision to go to war in Iraq is an article in Israeli newspaper Haaretz titled
White Man's Burden which carries the following subheading;
The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish,
who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists
William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas
Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical.
This comes from a reputable newspaper from Israel so cannot be dismissed as the ravings of
some neo-Nazis. I have found this to have the most success in getting people online to think
about the Iraq War more, it is impossible for detractors to label a link to an Israeli
newspaper article as "anti-Semitic" without looking absurd.
I would find the UN's review kind of hard to recommend to people in real life simple
because of the provocative nature of the stories it runs. The American Pravda series
is of course very informative but the articles require quite a bit of time to read through
and check the hyperlinks within the article itself. Without sounding like someone with a
superiority complex, most people cannot read this much information and grasp it. Many will
not touch articles relating to Holocaust Denial or race.
But anyway, you sir are doing great work with the maintenance and story selection on this
website and I wish you the best of luck in the future. It certainly has armed me with lots of
information that I can use to counter mainstream narratives in a whole host of issues.
Although my efforts in real life have not been very successful, I do seem to be getting some
success in my cyber-activism on mainstream news websites, where I am able to provide a clear
and cogent narrative with links to reputable websites and not come across as a nutjob who
raves about da jooz .
@Anon Sharpen your reading skills. Civilian aircraft have different frequency
transponders than military aircraft. Flight plans are filed, and the transponder signals
correspond to filed flight plans. When attacking, military craft turn off their transponders.
No transponder signal = no corresponding flight plan = unfriendly aircraft.
There is no need to "spoof" anything, once the transponder stops signalling. That aside, I
found it curious that this particular airplane was on its first flight after major
maintenance. Who knows what was done in servicing. If the computer in the car you drive can
be hijacked to cause sudden acceleration or brake failurs, an airplane's certainly can.
Abel Danger went into quite a discussion of this during the 9/11 event that had 2 planes
crashing into the towers. I can't find it on youtube any longer. A lot of their YTubes have
been deleted.
I saw in the Jan. 15 @2130 Teheran Times that, "TEHRAN – A possible disruption in
Iran's radar network by the U.S. may have caused the operator mistake the Ukrainian
passenger plan for an incoming American cruise missile, at top Iranian military official
said late on Tuesday."
A Canadian here... The yappy-lapdog Canadian gov't is "demanding" a whole lot of control
over the investigation, yet in the same breath demands "impartial" analysis and prosecution
of the perps... by definition, the Cdn gov't is not impartial, it is a vassal
administration of the US/ZATO/5Eyes MIC.
More importantly, will the black box show what happened regarding reports that the
plane's transponder had been shut off shortly after take-off and before the missiles were
launched. It is known from the MH370 investigation that Boeing planes automatically report
back to Boeing head office with various bits of telemetry. Is it such a stretch that Boeing
has various "backdoors" in the 737 flight computers which could allow the transponders to
be shut off remotely? The CIA/Mossad surely would know about such backdoors, being Boeing
is part and parcel of the US MIC.
The Canadian rabid response smacks of trying to hide or get ahead of any proof of the
above.
Looking at all the stories coming out, the deep state is getting pretty serious about
getting rid of Trump.
What if they get Biden as the democratic nominee too and we have a Pence/Biden matchup?
Top that with everything the Fed is doing to keep the market bubble from bursting and it
raises interesting possibilities.
Trump laughing it up from the sidelines, for one thing.
This Nariman Gharib or his commanders are straightout stupid. With this behaviour they
confirm the suspicion that the incident was staged. While proof of electronic warfare to
create the havoc may never come or is impossible to obtain the main weakness of the effort
is the fact that filming the event in the middle of the night from a rooftop is explainable
only if the camera guy has known what would happen where. - Staged to overshadow the
impressive triumph the Iranians had with the attack on the Iraqi US base.
"... The infrastructure they inherited from the USSR mostly is now fully amortized. For example railway park in in complete ruin. Central heating pipeline communications in cities like Kiev are in ruins too. In the USSR they tried to reuse the heat from electric stations and have elaborate hot water delivery networks from each, which provided heat to a large city blocks. Now pipes are completely rusted (which in 30 years is no surprise) and are in the state of constant repair. ..."
"... But when the standard of living dropped to such extent as it dropped after 2014 sentiments toward even slightly different ethnic groups turn hostile too. This is the case in Ukraine. In this sense you are wrong. There is no more unity now then existed before 2014. I would say there is less unity now. ..."
"... Sentiments turned against both Donbass dwellers and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine. In Kiev the derogatory term for both categories is "ponaekhali" ("come to overcrowd the place and displace us", or something along those lines; it's difficult to translate, but the term carries strong derogatory meaning) ..."
"... The nationalistic hysteria of 2014-2017 now mostly changed into deep depression: how a tiny group of far right nationalist and football hooligan gangs managed to get to power against the will of the majority of the country and destroy its economy. That's why Zelensky was elected and most far right parliamentarians lost their seats. Most of Western Ukraine voted for him, which is telling you something. ..."
"... The problem for Ukraine is that with the cut of economic ties with Russia the natural path for economics is probably down. De-industrialization, Baltic style, is raining supreme. Many enterprises survived the period from 1991 to 2014 only due to orders from Russia. Especially remnants of military industrial complex and manufacturing industry. Now what? Selling land (like Zelensky is trying to do) ? ..."
I feel like robber barons in Kyiv have harmed you more through their looting of the country than impoverished Eastern Ukrainians,
who were the biggest losers in the post-Soviet deindustrilization, have harmed you by existing and dying of diseases of poverty
and despair.
It reminds me of how coastal shit-libs in America talk about "fly-over" country and want all the poor whites in Appalachia
to die. I'm living in a country whose soul is totally poisoned. A country that is dying. While all this is happening, whites have
split themselves into little factions focused on political point scoring.
I doubt people like Zelensky, Kolomoisky, Poroshenko and all the rest are going to turn Ukraine into an earthly paradise. They're
more likely to be Neros playing harps, while Ukraine burns.
Looks like your understanding of Ukraine is mostly based of a short trip to Lvov and reading neoliberal MSM and forums. That's
not enough, unless you want to be the next Max Boot.
Ukraine is a deeply sick patient, which surprisingly still stands despite all hardships (Ukrainians demonstrated amazing, superhuman
resilience in the crisis that hit them, which greatly surprised all experts).
The infrastructure they inherited from the USSR mostly is now fully amortized. For example railway park in in complete ruin. Central
heating pipeline communications in cities like Kiev are in ruins too. In the USSR they tried to reuse the heat from electric stations
and have elaborate hot water delivery networks from each, which provided heat to a large city blocks. Now pipes are completely rusted
(which in 30 years is no surprise) and are in the state of constant repair.
And, what is really tragic Ukraine now it is a debt state. Usually the latter is the capital sentence for the county. Few managed
to escape even in more favorable conditions (South Korea is one.) So chances of economic recovery are slim: with such level of parasitic
rent to the West the natural path is down and down. Don't cry for me Argentina.
And there is no money to replace already destroyed due to bad maintenance infrastructure, but surprisingly large parts of Soviets
era infrastructure still somehow hold. For example, electrical networks, subway cars. But other part are already crumbling.
For example, in Kiev that means in some buildings you have winter without central heating, you have elevators in 16-storey buildings
that work one or two weeks in month, you have no hot water, sometimes you have no water at all for a week or more, etc). Pensioners
have problem with paying heating bills, so some of them are forced to live in non-heated apartments.
And that's in Kiev/Kyiv (Western Ukrainians love to change established names, much like communists) . In provincial cities it
is a real horror show when even electricity supply became a problem. The countryside dwellers at least has its own food, but the
situation for them is also very very difficult.
Other big problem -- few jobs and almost no well paid job, unless you are young, know English and have a university education
(and are lucky). Before 2014 approximately 70% of Ukrainian labor migrants (in total a couple of million) came from the western part
of the country, in which migration had become a widespread method of coping with poverty, the absence of jobs and low salaries.
Now this practice spread to the whole county. That destroyed many families.
The USA plays its usual games selling vassals crap at inflated prices (arms, uranium rods, coal, locomotives, cars, etc) , which
Ukrainians can't refuse. Trump is simply a typical gangster in this respect, running a protection racket.
The rate of emigration and shrinking population is another fundamental problem. Mass emigration (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine
) is continuing even after Zelensky election. Looting by the West also continues unabated. This is disaster capitalism in action.
Add to those problems inflated military expenses to fight the civil war in Donbass which deprives other sectors of necessary funds
(with the main affect of completely alienating Russia) and "Huston, we have a problem."
May be this is a natural path for xUSSR countries after the dissolution of the USSR, I don't know.
But the destiny of ordinary Ukrainians is deeply tragic: they wanted better life and got a really harsh one. Especially pensioners
(typical pension is something like $60-$70) a month in Kiev, much less outside of Kiev. How they physically survive I do not fully
understand.
There are still pro-Russian areas but being free of Crimea and Donbass means Ukraine can no longer be characterized as "split."
I agree that there is a substantial growth of anti-Russian sentiments. It is really noticeable. As well as growth of the usage
of the Ukrainian language (previously Kiev, unlike Lvov was completely Russian-language city).
And in Western Ukraine Russiphobia was actually always a part of "national identity". The negative definition of national identity,
if you wish. See popular slogan "Hto ne skache toi moskal" ("those who do not jump are Moskal" -- where Moskal is the derogatory
name for a Russian). Here is this slogan in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6rfqr9afMc
;-)
But when the standard of living dropped to such extent as it dropped after 2014 sentiments toward even slightly different
ethnic groups turn hostile too. This is the case in Ukraine. In this sense you are wrong. There is no more unity now then existed
before 2014. I would say there is less unity now.
Sentiments turned against both Donbass dwellers and Ukrainians from Western Ukraine. In Kiev the derogatory term for both
categories is "ponaekhali" ("come to overcrowd the place and displace us", or something along those lines; it's difficult to translate,
but the term carries strong derogatory meaning) .
"Donetskie" (former Donbass dwellers, often displaced by the war) are generally strongly resented and luxury cars, villas, etc
and other excesses of neoliberal elite are attributed mostly to them (Donbass neoliberal elite did moved to Kiev, not Moscow)
, while "zapadentsi" are also, albeit less strongly, resented because they often use clan politics within institutions, and often
do not put enough effort (or are outright incompetent), as they rely on its own clan ties for survival.
This sentiment is stronger to the south of Kiev where the resentment is directed mainly against Western Ukrainians, not against
"Donetskie" like in Kiev. And I am talking not only about Odessa. Western Ukrainians are now strongly associated with corrupt ways
of getting lucrative positions (via family, clan or political connections), being incompetent and doing nothing useful.
What surprise me is that this resentment against "zapadentsi" and "Poloshenko clan" is shared by many people from Western Ukraine.
The target is often slightly more narrow, for example Hutsuls in Lviv (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls )
The nationalistic hysteria of 2014-2017 now mostly changed into deep depression: how a tiny group of far right nationalist
and football hooligan gangs managed to get to power against the will of the majority of the country and destroy its economy. That's
why Zelensky was elected and most far right parliamentarians lost their seats. Most of Western Ukraine voted for him, which is telling
you something.
The problem for Ukraine is that with the cut of economic ties with Russia the natural path for economics is probably down.
De-industrialization, Baltic style, is raining supreme. Many enterprises survived the period from 1991 to 2014 only due to orders
from Russia. Especially remnants of military industrial complex and manufacturing industry. Now what? Selling land (like Zelensky
is trying to do) ?
Ukraine will probably eventually lose a large part of its chemical industry because without subsidies for gas it just can't complete
even taking into account low labor costs. And manufacturing because without Russian market it is difficult to find a place for their
production in already established markets, competing only in price and suffering in quality (I remember something about Iraq returning
Ukrainians all ordered armored carriers due to defect is the the armor
https://sputniknews.com/military/201705221053859853-armored-vehicles-defects-extent
/). Although at least for the Ukrainian arm industry there is place on the market in countries which are used to old Soviet armaments,
because those are rehashed Soviet products.
Add to this corrupt and greedy diaspora (all those Jaresko, Chalupas, Freelands, Vindmans, etc ) from the USA and Canada (and
not only diaspora -- look at Biden, Kerry, etc) who want their piece of the pie after 2014 "Revolution of dignity" (what a sad joke)
and you will see the problems more clearly. Not that much changed from the period 1991-2014 where Ukraine was also royally fleeced
by own oligarchs allied with Western banksers, simply now this leads to quicker deterioration of the standard of living.
None of Eastern European countries benefited from a color revolution staged by the USA. This is about opening the country not
only to multinationals (while they loot the county they at least behave within a certain legal bounds, demonstrating at least decency
of gangsters like in Godfather), but to petty foreign criminals from diaspora and outside of it who allies with the local oligarchs
and smallernouveau riche and are siphoning all the county wealth to western banks as soon as possible. Greed of the disapora is simply unbounded.
https://neweasterneurope.eu/2016/08/26/the-ukrainian-diaspora-as-a-recipient-of-oligarchic-cash/
Of course, Ukrainian diaspora is not uniform. Still, outside well-know types from the tiny Mid-Eastern country, the most dangerous
people for Ukraine are probably Ukrainians from diaspora with dual citizenship
Of course the USA do not care, but the trend ofter 2014 color revolution financed and
organized by the USA (with Germany Poland and Sweden in supporting roles) is devastating...
@Anatoly
Karlin Donbass people ran with the territories. In addition, half a million Ukrainian
citizens got Russian citizenship in 2019. Optimists put Ukrainian population at 35 million,
pessimists at 22-24 million, but half a million in a single year is a huge number in either
case.
Finally, my interest in the opinions of me (or anything else, for that matter) of various
"svidomy" and "svyadomy" personages is about the same as my interest in the opinions of
cockroaches or ants. In one case, what they fought for has already befallen them, in the
other – the same thing is likely to happen. In both cases Russia should not burden
itself with unnecessary dead weight.
A report by a research unit of the German Bundestag, just released in Berlin, has defied the
narrative of the European Union, NATO and the US, with the conclusion that since the Ukraine
civil war began in early 2014, there has been no reliable evidence of Russian troop invasion or
intervention by regular Russian military forces in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine.
After a review of the press, official public releases and reports, as well as European court
rulings, the Bundestag's experts have described the outcome with the German phrase, ohne
belastbares Faktenmaterial – "without reliable fact material."
The Bundestag report, which runs to 17 pages and was completed on December 9, has been noted
in the German-language media. To date, however, it has been ignored by the Anglo-American
press, including the alt-media.
The new German report is entitled "Intervention in civil war zones: The role of Russia
during the east Ukraine conflict". It was prepared by the foreign, international law and
defence department (WD-2) of the Scientific Services Bureau of the Bundestag.
In a preface to the report, the authors say they "support the members of the German
Bundestag with mandate-related activity. Their works do not express the view of the German
Bundestag, its individual organs, or the management of the Bundestag." Responsibility for the
research reporting is "the technical responsibility of the authors as well as the department
management." No authors have been identified by name.
The full German report can be read at the
official website link. No official English translation is available.
For five years Ukrainian armed forces and pro-Russian separatists have been fighting against
each other in the Donbass/Donets Basin," the report says. " The territorial conflict shows
classical identifiers of a non-international (internal) armed conflict. About the extent,
quality and magnitude of the military involvement of Russia during the Ukraine conflict, there
are few reliable facts and analyses aside from the numerous speculations, part-contradictory
reports and press announcements, and denials from different sources. Altogether, however, the
picture of the situation is not unequivocal."
"Also, the Federal [German] Government holds no reliable knowledge, according to its own
information apparently, on how much influence today Russia actually exercises on the
separatists in the East Ukraine that can be described as credible."
The report summarizes western media reports, social media posts, as well as NATO press
releases in order to cast doubt on their veracity. "Reliable information about the parts of the
region of the Ukrainian-Russian border not controlled by Kiev is rare." The German researchers
are also sceptical of claims published by the monitoring mission of the area from the
Organization for Security and Economic Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) which "has, in spite of its
comprehensive mandate, only limited access to this area."
For background details of the anti-Russian leadership of the OSCE's special monitoring
mission (SMM) in Ukraine, read
this .
"The question of whether pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass region are currently under
control and directed from Moscow, or whether regular Russian troops still remain on Ukrainian
territory cannot be answered without reliable factual material, in particular without the
appropriate and reliable secret service intelligence."
What seems to have been a case of bad judgments and human error does, however, include some
elements that have yet to be explained. The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced
considerable "jamming" and the planes transponder switched
off and stopped transmitting
several minutes before the missiles were launched .
There were also problems with
the communication network of the air defense command, which may have been related.
The electronic jamming coming from an unknown source meant that the air defense system was
placed on manual operation, relying on human intervention to launch. The human role meant that
an operator had to make a quick judgment in a pressure situation in which he had only moments
to react. The shutdown of the transponder, which would have automatically signaled to the
operator and Tor electronics that the plane was civilian, instead automatically indicated that
it was hostile. The operator, having been particularly briefed on the possibility of incoming
American cruise missiles, then fired.
The two missiles that brought the plane down came from a Russian-made system designated
SA-15 by NATO and called Tor by the Russians. Its eight missiles are normally mounted on a
tracked vehicle. The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an
independent launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system
functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent accidents. Given
what happened on that morning in Tehran, it is plausible to assume that something or someone
deliberately interfered with both the Iranian air defenses and with the transponder on the
airplane, possibly as part of an attempt to create an aviation accident that would be
attributed to the Iranian government.
The SA-15 Tor defense system used by Iran has one major vulnerability. It can be
hacked or "spoofed," permitting an intruder to impersonate a legitimate user and take
control. The United States Navy and Air Force reportedly have developed technologies "that can
fool enemy radar systems with false and deceptively moving targets." Fooling the system also
means fooling the operator. The Guardian has also
reported independently how the United States military has long been developing systems that
can from a distance alter the electronics and targeting of Iran's available missiles.
The same technology can, of course, be used to alter or even mask the transponder on a
civilian airliner in such a fashion as to send false information about identity and location.
The United States has the cyber and electronic warfare capability to both jam and alter signals
relating to both airliner transponders and to the Iranian air defenses. Israel presumably has
the same ability. Joe Quinn at Sott.net
also notes an interested back story to those photos
and video footage that have appeared in the New York Times and elsewhere showing the
Iranian missile launch, the impact with the plane and the remains after the crash, to include
the missile remains. They appeared on January 9 th , in an Instagram account called
' Rich Kids of
Tehran '. Quinn asks how the Rich Kids happened to be in "a low-income housing estate on
the city's outskirts [near the airport] at 6 a.m. on the morning of January 8 th
with cameras pointed at the right part of the sky in time to capture a missile hitting a
Ukrainian passenger plane ?"
Put together the Rich Kids and the possibility of electronic warfare and it all suggests a
premeditated and carefully planned event of which
the Soleimani assassination was only a part. There have been riots in Iran subsequent to
the shooting down of the plane, blaming the government for its ineptitude. Some of the people
in the street are clearly calling for the goal long sought by the United States and Israel,
i.e. "regime change." If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing
of Soleimani, is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another
unprincipled actor with blood on its hands. There is much still to explain about the downing of
Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752.
Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National
Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation (Federal ID Number #52-1739023) that
seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.
Given this news, any impartial observer would at least entertain the possibility of
its truth, particularly given the lengthy track record of the United States/Israel in
perpetrating such crimes.
It's a good litmus test for determining where one's sentiment lies. Even "alternative
media" aren't likely to touch this story.
The Iranian Ambassador to Britain, Hamid Baeidinejad said in an interview on the UK Channel 4
news hours ago that although Iran had needed time to determine what had happened, it had now
accepted responsibility, would pay compensation, and the people who fired on the jet will be
put on trial.
If nothing else, Iran, which was widely seen as the victim in the killing of Soleimani,
is being depicted in much of the international media as little more than another
unprincipled actor with blood on its hands.
Both Trump and the Iranian regime have good domestic disquiet reason to rethink the
confrontational policy each are pursuing. Iran and the US could get closer over this. I think
the predictable unpredictability of assassination and catastrophic loss of life events
makes false flagging them of dubious value.
Why did I rob banks? Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was
inside a bank, robbing it, than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it
so much that one or two weeks later I'd be out looking for the next job. But to me the
money was the chips, that's all.
(Sutton W, Linn E: Where the Money Was: The Memoirs of a Bank Robber. Viking Press
(1976), p. 160)
I suppose it is possible there are people who get addicted to false flagging others'
deaths. If half of what is said in this site is true, Mossad really needs to set up a 12 step
program.
" .the big question which many people on social media are asking is: why was this
"videographer" standing in a derelict industrial area outside Tehran at around six o'clock in
the morning with a mobile phone camera training on a fixed angle to the darkened sky? The
airliner is barely visible, yet the sky-watching person has the camera pointed and ready to
film a most dramatic event, seconds before it happened. That strongly suggests,
foreknowledge."
The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the
planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the
missiles were launched.
I vaguely recall reports of transponder issues arising during the shootdown of
MH-17.
Civilian passenger flights were still departing and arriving in Tehran, almost certainly
an error in judgment on the part of the airport authorities. Inexplicably, civilian
aircraft continued to take off and land even after Flight 752 was shot down.
The Iranian government is blameworthy for keeping planes in the air either because of
diabolical reasons (delays a counter attack) or economic (nearly $1 billion a year in
overflight fees).
However, the pilots of the airliners that took over during the morning between the first
missile hitting Iraq and the downing of the Ukrainian airliner were dumb and
irresponsible.
The system includes both radar to detect and track targets as well as an independent
launch system, which includes an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system
functionality capable of reading call signs and transponder signals to prevent
accidents.
Clearly you have no clue how an IFF operates and that no commercial airliner even has an
IFF on board. Every commercial aircraft looks like the enemy to this SAM
operator.
Also, you need to explain how spoofing a RADAR which creates a false track would cause the
shoot down. The missile would simply target the false track instead of the real aircraft.
You also need to explain how an old SAM missile site can be hacked or spoofed to shoot
down a civilian airliner. Especially this old one which has no Mode-S or ADS-B capability and
only radio communication capability.
As Mark Twain said, it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an
idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt.
Even if this was a clear mistake on Iran's part, the US and Israel still have blood on their
hands for the downing of this plane. The missiles were launched in response to a targeted
killing of an Iranian general. If that didn't happen, these missiles never would've been
launched.
Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives lost.
I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured Soleimani
to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.
@Anon Before calling someone an idiot it is better to follow Mark Twain's advice
yourself. A more careful reading reveals no claim that IFF was onstalled on the airliner. The
commenter does speculate that possible spoofing involved a false attribution of a real
airliner not the creation of a false airliner and radar track. Perhaps you are familiar with
"old" electronic countermeasures and not with the "new", "top secret" and spiffy versions
hinted at by the U.S. military?
@Quartermaster /An Airliner can not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the
claim that it quit transmitting "several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground
when it quit./
As it climbed and reached 4,600ft above ground level, the plane's transponder suddenly
stopped working at about 6.14am, 2 minutes or so after take off . [emphasis
added]
The plane was already airborne when the transponder stopped working.
@Onlooker Less than twenty replies into the thread and we've already got two individuals
attempting to distort the facts. Here's the key link that readers should visit:
The airliner had not been in the air long at all when it was shot down. An Airliner can
not legally launch with deadlined transponder, so the claim that it quit transmitting
"several" minutes earlier would have placed it on the ground when it quit.
The flight departed Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airport at 02:42 UTC ( 06:12
local time ) and the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network at 02:44
UTC( 06:14 local time) . According to the report the aircraft climbed to 8000 feet and
turned right back toward the airport and crashed at 02:48 UTC ( 06:18 local time ) --
four minutes after the last ADS-B signal was received by the Flightradar24 network. –
Source
Flight Radar 24
Mr. Giraldi's original claim:
The Iranian missile operator reportedly experienced considerable "jamming" and the
planes transponder switched off and stopped transmitting several minutes before the
missiles were launched. There were also problems with the communication network of the
air defense command, which may have been related.
4 minutes after the transponders were switches off, the plane crashed .
Without [proper] access to the FDR and CVR, it's impossible to determine when the plane
was hit and how long it took to crash, exactly.
The plane was only flying at 8,000 feet [its normal {flight} ceiling is 30,000 feet and
above], so it's speed relatively low [cruise speed is between about 400 and 500 knots (460
– 575 mph / 740 – 930 kph), but the Ukrainian plane was still climbing] and the
fall back to Earth relatively quick.
On the clip where the plane is on fire and finally crashes, the downward angle looked to
be about 25 to 30 %, which is relatively steep. Time of downfall can be calculated when the
relative data is available.
Therefore, Mr Giraldi's claim " several minutes before the missiles were launched "
is technically correct , until proven wrong by data from the FDR and CVR,
The Tor system is too primitive to be hacked. It is a stand alone, autonomous and mostly
analog system. The radar signals it generates are shown on analog tube-screens.
Interesting theory by P. Giraldi. However, I am very surprised that Israel/Mossad role in
these acts of terrorism never mentioned. We know that Trump is a Zionist servant and acts on
instructions from his jewish fananciers. We know, Trump is incapable of serious thinking.
The Iranians took the hit because their missiles took out the airliner. And then, they could
stop the Western media crying for the next 6 mos. and this gave them time to bring in other
neutral investigators to look at the evidence and come up with logical scenarios. There is a
reason the black boxes weren't given to any one else to own – because they still
remember the scam investigation of MH 17. I f lew planes for over 20 yrs – Every
controlled/radared airport would ask me to turn on my transponder if it wasn't on –
Everyone of them. This plane not only came from Ukraine but was an easy target for a hack
from any of the big Intel countries. The BIG STORY here is that most every plane flying today
– can have the same type consequences!!! because of the Western War Machine.
Trump-Pence-Pompeo-Kushner-Netanyahu are ultimately responsible for these 176 lives
lost. I suspect MBS is also part of the scheme. It was his fake peace offering that lured
Soleimani to Iraq in the first place. I'm with Trudeau on this.
Trudeau showed some real courage criticizing Trump and his terrible decisions.
More Western allies have to stand up to the Zionist stooge and call him out on his
treachery and stupidity.
@bobhammer Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Turn off Fox News now.
We are not always the good guys and we are up to our necks in deceit, plunder, and evil.
Our actions have harmed millions of people around the world and it has to stop.
It is time for more self-reflection as individuals and as a nation; and it is long past
time for us to be comfortable with lies.
@bobhammer The "uninterruptible" autopilot can be activated – either by pilots or
by on-board sensors, or by radio or satellite link<= connected to controls at the remote
end. Government agencies, quasi government agencies, military brats and probably the entire
group of privately operated NGOs and private party mobsters (bankers, corporations and
private military armies and privateers) at the remote end, can take over control of in-flight
Aircraft, and fly it, land it, take it off, whatever, even if the pilot sitting in the
cockpit objects. and does all he can to retrieve control from the remote operator.
Several comments report says interrupt able remote control, allows, persons on the ground,
to take from the pilot in a flying airplane, control of the airplane the pilot is suppose to
be flying, in situations for example when terrorist are in the cockpit. I have not read the
manufacture's literature nor do I have personal knowledge abut the equipment list of any of
these aircraft, the list suggest they are all aircraft, not only equipped with the UAP but
that they were all aircraft made by the same manufacturer. I am merely repeating what was on
stated as fact on a website I visited.
Many are looking for proof that remotely equipped uninterruptible autopilots are being
used as Remote Control weaponized drones . Imagine an pilot, located on the ground in
London or somewhere parks his /her remote ground to air control vehicle and takes over flight
control including turns on/off the transponder [<=which tells everyone where the plane is
during its flight] on a plane that is flying, landing or taking off from say the Tehran
airport in Iran?
My personal experience is that it generally takes less than 2 minutes after a transponder
is turned off during a planes flight, before fighter jets arrive to escort the transponder
disabled plane; so the whole system that protects civilian aircraft, and allows the military
to know the aircraft is civilian, is dependent on the Transponder, installed in the airplane,
to continuously squawk during flight, its exact position so that everyone can identify the
flight, and track the aircraft during its flight. Every land based control tower, ATC control
system center and military installation depends on that airborne squawking transponder to
track the en-route progress of commercial and private aircraft flights from take off to
landing.
Another comment made on that list referred to above claimed Uninterruptible Auto Pilot
[UAP] equipped aircraft have been involved in unexplained flight accident/disappearance
events (I have no personal knowledge about the equipment in these aircraft, I just repeated
here what someone else said elsewhere, please verify these claims yourself or provide
verification ) .
(4 @911) <=UAP allows pilot-less flights, no pilot need board the plane for its
flight.
(PS752) (transponder turned off, destroyed by confused ground defense crews)
MH370 (vanished into thin air)
MH17 (had its flight path altered.)
Eyes focus on Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (UAP) .. to explain recent Tehran 160 person
disaster?
This is really something to think about? Always the question has been how did four
military officers from Iran, trained a few weeks in Florida to fly jets, manage to get
through four differently located pilot screening TSA gates to fly the aircraft and passenger
into the 9/11 events. Conspiracy theories suggest since no pilot is needed, there were no
pilots for TSA to screening. Remote control on the ground flew the aircraft to their
destinations.
Just about says it all doesn't it? What kind of people are we dealing with here? Of course
only the morons out there are still being fooled by these kind of false flags. Even in the
year 2020 these same morons still believe ZOG's 9-11 fairy tale and label any other theory as
a "conspiracy." Speaking of conspiracies the biggest idiots out there, even bigger than the
ones who believe ZOG's narrative or those type who believe the total wacktard stuff put out
by ZIO controlled disinfo puppets like Alex Jones.
Ukrainian commercial airline? What other nation besides Iran does ZOG have it in for? Is
it Russia?
War by deception? HARDLY to anyone with two brain cells left. These fools have been caught
before, they aren't that clever. What they are is protected by a syndicate of bought and paid
for politicians. They were caught attacking the USS Liberty, they were caught bombing
American and British installations in Egypt, the Rosenbergs and Pollard were nailed, but of
course despite all of this, America and her leaders continued the value Israel as a friend
and an ally. With a friend like Israel, who needs enemies. Then of course we have the story
of our 5 little dancing Israelis apprehended in NYC after being observed dancing and
celebrating the WTC towers collapsing. So you mean a group of Israelis from Israel, nation
that is ALLEGEDLY "friends" with America and America think it is hilarious and worth
celebrating when America is attacked and thousands are burned alive or jump to their death
from hundreds of feet above the street?? Of course "our" media quickly exonerated the
celebrating Israelis and buried that story faster than your average house cat buries his own
turds.
ZOG really thinks the average American has the IQ of a monkey. Even after the WMD caca
they still think you people will believe anything they tell you to believe. The sad part is
they are right about that with the majority of the population.
OK pilgrims, we are told today that there are mobs in the streets of Tehran protesting the
shoot down of the Ukrainian airliner. 176 were killed. We are carefully not told (thus far) how
many Iranians are mobbed up in the streets but the implication spread by the Foxnews clown car
is that the "Maximum Pressure" sanctions and propaganda campaign run by Israel and the US is
about to cause the fall of the Islamic Republic of Iran. OK We will see.
Long ago during the Iran-Iraq War an Americans frigate USS Stark was attacked in the Gulf by
an Iraqi F-! Mirage. The ship was hit by two French built Exocet missiles. I was a member of
the JCS investigating board that traveled to Bahrein and Baghdad for the inquiry. The damage to
the ship was frightful and many American sailors had been killed and wounded. The JCS decided
that a chain of unfortunate and mistaken events had led to the incident but the US Navy
conducted its own investigation and destroyed the careers of the captain of USS Stark and all
his officers. The navy is very unforgiving of damage to its boats. Unless you have the vessel
shot out from under you by enemy action you might as well go down with the ship
Later in the course of that war the anti-aircraft guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes was
in the Gulf and it shot down an Iranian airliner killing 290 people on board. The Iranians were
and probably still are convinced that Vincennes shot down the airliner as a result of the
inherently evil and malevolent nature of the US.
In fact what happened was that the captain of Vincennes was afraid of suffering the same
fate as the captain of the Stark who had been accused of not being quick enough to engage the
Iraqi fighter bomber.
Well, folks, STUFF HAPPENS and the human link in a chain of events is always the most
important link.
IMO Iranian air defenses accidentally shot down the Ukrainian airliner. Stuff Happens,
especially in war. PL
When the bullets start flying and the bombs start dropping, terrible things can happen
that no one has planned for. This is one of the great tragedies of war. Unintended
consequences and so-called "collateral damage."
"... What no one is mentioning is: the US airstrikes on Iraqi military bases, and Soleimani's murder contributed greatly to the hair trigger response of Iran's air defense forces. If Washington did not turn the heat up on both Iraq and Iran there would have been no need for Iran's retaliation, and thus the level of Iran's domestic defense forces would not have been so nervous as to pull the trigger downing the airliner. ..."
"... Former CIA high-ranking official accidentally reveals the type of the false flag operation that the US imperialists will orchestrate to start a war with Iran https://failedevolution.blogspot.com/2020/01/former-cia-high-ranking-official.html ..."
"... It reminds me too much of MH-17, which was not hit with a BUK but with bullets. Iran should have closed its airspace because such tricks are to be expected, irrespective of the cause of the current accident. ..."
When the Pentagon confirmed the assassination of Iranian Major General Qasem Soleimani, U.S.
President Donald Trump took to social media to post a single image of the American flag to the
adulation of his followers. Unfortunately, most Americans are ignorant of the other flag
synonymous with U.S. foreign policy, that of the 'false flag' utilized to deceive the public
and stir up support for endless war abroad. While the chicken hawk defenders of Trump's
reckless decision to murder one of the biggest contributors in the defeat of ISIS salivated
over possible war with Iran, their appetite was spoiled by Tehran's retaliatory precision
strikes of two U.S. bases in Iraq that deliberately avoided casualties while in accordance with
the Islamic Republic's right to self defense under Article 51 of the United Nations charter.
The reprisal successfully deescalated the crisis but sent a clear message Iran was willing to
stand up to the U.S. with the backing of Russia and China, while Washington underestimated
Tehran which forewarned the Iraqi government of its impending counterattack so U.S. personnel
could evacuate.
In the hours following the ballistic missile strikes, reports came in that a Boeing 737
international passenger flight scheduled from Tehran to Kiev, Ukraine had crashed shortly after
takeoff from Imam Khomeini International Airport, killing all 176 passengers and flight crew on
board. Initial video of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 (PS752) showed
that the aircraft was already in flames while descending to the ground, leading to speculation
it was shot down amid the heightened political crisis between Iran and Washington. In the days
following, a second obscure video surfaced which only increased this suspicion. Meanwhile,
Western governments quickly concluded that an anti-aircraft surface-to-air missile brought
PS752 down and were eager to point the finger at Iran before any formal investigation. Many
people, including this author, were admittedly skeptical as to how a plane taking off from
Tehran could have been mistaken five hours after the strikes in Iraq.
Nevertheless, those with reservations turned out to be wrong when days later the Islamic
Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) came clean that its aerospace forces made a "human error" and
accidentally shot the passenger plane down after mistaking it for a incoming cruise missile
when it flew close to a military base during a heightened state of alert in anticipation of
U.S. attack. Many have noted that Iran's honorable decision to take responsibility for the
catastrophe is in sharp contrast with Washington's response in 1988 when the U.S. Navy shot
down Iran Air Flight 655 scheduled from Tehran to Dubai over the Strait of Hormuz in the
Persian Gulf, killing all 290 occupants, after failing to cover it up. Just a month later, Vice
President George H.W. Bush would notoriously state he would " never apologize for the United
States of America. Ever. I don't care what the facts are ." Although he was not directly
referring to the incident, one can only imagine what the reaction would be if Iranian President
Hassan Rouhani were to say the same weeks after shooting down the Ukrainian plane, let alone an
American one. Predictably, Tehran's transparency has gone mostly unappreciated while the Trump
administration is already trying to use the disaster to further demonize Iran.
Oddly enough, Ukrainian International Airlines is partly owned by the infamous
Ukrainian-Israeli oligarch, politician and energy tycoon Igor Kolomoisky, who was notably one
of the biggest financiers of the anti-Russian, pro-EU coup d'etat which overthrew the
democratically elected government of Viktor Yanukovych in 2014. Kolomoisky is also a principal
backer of current Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky whose dubious phone call with Trump
resulted in the 45th U.S. president's impeachment last month. In another astounding
coincidence, Kolomoisky's Privat Group is believed to control Burisma Holdings, the
Cypress-based company whose executive board 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden's son Hunter
was appointed to following the Maidan junta. The former Vice President admitted that he bribed
Ukraine into firing its top prosecutor who was looking into his son's corruption by threatening
to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees.
Kolomoisky, AKA "the Chameleon", is one of the wealthiest people in the ex-Soviet country
and was formerly appointed as governor of an administrative region bordering Donbass in eastern
Ukraine following the 2014 putsch. He has also funded a battalion of volunteer neo-Nazi
mercenaries fighting alongside the Ukrainian army in the War in Donbass against
Russian-speaking separatists which the military aid temporarily withheld by the Trump
administration that was disputably contingent upon an investigation of Biden and his son goes
to. In 2014, another infamous plane shootdown made international headlines when Malaysian
Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) scheduled from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down over the
breakaway Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) in eastern Ukraine, killing all 298 passengers and
crew.
From the get-go, the Obama administration was adamant that the missile which shot down the
Boeing 777 came from separatist rebel territory. However, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir bin
Mohamad denounced the charges brought against the Russian and Ukrainian nationals indicted in
the NATO-led investigation, dismissing the entire probe as a politically motivated effort
predetermined to scapegoat Moscow and exclude Malaysian participation in the inquiry from the
very beginning. Mohamad is featured in the excellent documentaryMH17: Call for Justice
made by a team of independent journalists which contests the NATO-scripted narrative and
reveals that the Buk missile was more likely launched from Ukrainian Army-controlled territory
than the DPR. One of Kolomoisky's hired guns could also have been responsible.
Shamefully, Iran's admission of guilt in the PS752 downing is already being used by
establishment propagandists to discredit skeptics and conflated with similar contested past
events like MH17 in order to intimidate dissenting voices from speaking up in the future. The
Bellingcat 'investigative journalism' collective which made its name incriminating Moscow for
the MH17 tragedy are the principle offenders. Bellingcat bills itself as an 'independent'
citizen journalism group even though its founder Eliot Higgins is employed by the Atlantic
Council think tank which receives funding from NATO, the U.S. State Department, the National
Endowment for Democracy (NED), George Soros' Open Society Foundation NGO, and numerous other
regime change factories. Despite its enormous conflict of interest, Bellingcat remains highly
cited by corporate media as a supposedly reputable source. At the outset, nearly everything
about the PS752 tragedy gave one déjà vu of the MH17 disaster, including the rush
to judgement by Western governments, so it was only natural for many to distrust the official
narrative until more facts came out.
None of this changes that the use of commercial passenger jets as false flag targets for
U.S. national security subterfuge is a verifiable historical fact, not a 'conspiracy theory.'
In 1997, the U.S. National Archives declassified a 1962 memo proposed by the Joint
Chiefs of Staff and Department of Defense for then-Secretary of State Robert McNamara entitled
" Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba ." The document outlined a series
of 'false flag' terrorist attacks, codenamed Operation Northwoods, to be carried out on a range
of targets and blamed on the Cuban government to give grounds for an invasion of Havana in
order to depose Fidel Castro. These scenarios included targets within the U.S., in particular
Miami, Florida, which had become a haven of right-wing émigrés and defectors
following the Cuban Revolution. In addition to the sinking of a Cuban refugee boat, one
Northwoods plan included the staging of attacks on a civilian jet airliner and a U.S. Air Force
plane to be pinned on Castro's government:
"8. It is possible to create and incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban
aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States
to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the
flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a
holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a
non-scheduled flight.
9. It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that Communist Cuban
MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack."
Although Operation Northwoods was rejected by then-U.S. President John F. Kennedy which many
believe was a factor in his subsequent assassination, Cuban exiles with the support of U.S.
intelligence would later be implicated in such an attack the following decade with the bombing
of Cubana Airlines Flight 455 in 1976 which killed all 73 passengers and crew on board. In
2005, documents released by the
National Security Archive showed that the CIA under then-director George H.W. Bush had advanced
knowledge of the plans of a Dominican Republic-based Cuban exile terrorist organization, the
Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU), at the direction of former CIA
operative Luis Posada Carriles to blow up the airliner. The U.S. later refused to extradite
Carriles to Cuba to face charges and although he never admitted to masterminding the bombing of
the jet, he publicly confessed to other attacks on tourist hotels in Cuba during the 1990s and
was later arrested in 2000 for attempting to blow up an auditorium in Panama trying to
assassinate Castro.
In 1962, the planners of Operation Northwoods concluded that such deceptive operations would
shift U.S. public opinion unanimously against Cuba.
"World opinion and the United Nations forum should be favorably affected by developing the
international image of Cuban government as rash and irresponsible, and as an alarming and
unpredictable threat to the peace of the Western Hemisphere."
The same talking points are used by the U.S. government to demonize Iran today. Initially,
some Western intelligence sources also
concluded that it was a malfunction or overheated engine that brought PS752 down in
corroboration with the Iranian government's original explanation until the narrative abruptly
shifted the following day. That they were so quick to hold Iran accountable without any
investigation gave the apparent likelihood that PS752 could have fallen prey to a
Northwoods-style false flag operation designed to further isolate Iran and defame its leaders
after they took precautions to avoid U.S. casualties in their retaliatory strikes for the
killing of Soleimani. Maintaining the image of Iran as a nefarious regime is crucial in
justifying hawkish U.S. policies toward the country and Iran's noted restraint in its
retaliation put a dent in that impression, so many were suspicious and rightly so.
It was also entirely plausible that U.S. special operations planners could have consulted
the Northwoods playbook replacing Cuba with Iran and the right-wing gusanos who were to assist
the staged attacks in Miami with the Iranian opposition group known as Mujahedin e-Khalq
(MEK/People's Mujahedin of Iran) to do the same in Tehran. In July of last year, Trump's
personal lawyer and former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani gave a paid speech at the
cult-like group's compound in Albania where he not only referred to the group as Iran's
"government-in-exile" but stated
the U.S's explicit intentions to use them for regime change in Iran. The MEK enjoys high level
contacts in the Trump administration and the group was elated at his decision to murder
Soleimani in Baghdad.
From 1997 until 2012, the MEK was on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations
until it was removed by the Obama administration after its expulsion from Iraq in order to
relocate the group to fortified bases in Albania and the NATO protectorate of Kosovo. The
latter disputed territory is a perfect fit for the rebranded group having been founded by
another deregistered foreign terrorist organization, the al-Qaeda linked Kosovo Liberation Army
(KLA), whose leader, Hashim Thaçi, presides over the partially-recognized state. The MEK
are no longer designated as such despite the State Department's own account of its
bloody history:
"During the 1970s, the MEK staged terrorist attacks inside Iran to destabilize and
embarrass the Shah's regime; the group killed several US military personnel and civilians
working on defense projects in Tehran. The group also supported the takeover in 1979 of the
US Embassy in Tehran. In April 1992 the MEK carried out attacks on Iranian embassies in 13
different countries, demonstrating the group's ability to mount large-scale operations
overseas."
Declassified documents revealing the sinister plans in Operation Northwoods which shockingly
made it all the way to the desk of the president of the United States and the foreknowledge of
Cubana Airlines Flight 455 are just two examples of solid proof that false flag attacks against
civilian passenger planes are a part of the Pentagon's modus operandi as disclosed in its own
archives and there is no reason to believe that such practices have been discontinued. That the
U.S. is still cozy with "former" terror groups like MEK seeking to repatriate is good reason to
believe its use of militant exiles for covert operations like those from Havana has not been
retired. If there were jumps to conclusions that proven serial liars could be looking for an
excuse to stage an attack to lay the blame on Iran, it is only because the distinct probability
was overwhelming. Even so, a stopped clock strikes the right time twice per day and that is
all Iran's acknowledgment of its liability proves -- that even the world's most
unreliable and criminal sources in Washington and Langley can be accurate sometimes
What no one is mentioning is: the US airstrikes on Iraqi military bases, and Soleimani's
murder contributed greatly to the hair trigger response of Iran's air defense forces. If
Washington did not turn the heat up on both Iraq and Iran there would have been no need for
Iran's retaliation, and thus the level of Iran's domestic defense forces would not have been
so nervous as to pull the trigger downing the airliner.
But, if's a huge word.
Israel has had control of Iran's Russian middle systems for years. Russia gave them the
codes.
I think Israel blew up the aircraft. I can't find a link but I heard a huge number of
Soleimani loyalists were arrested in Iran. Someone should have a link to that from Twitter or
somewhere.
I think that there was some kind of collaboration between Khamenei, Israel and the US to
remove Soleimani who had designs on a coup.
I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.
I also don't know who was on that plane. So it's unclear if it was good or bad it was
destroyed. Who knows who those 176 dual Iranian Nationals were.
I just know that if Israel had control of those missile units and it would embarrass Iran
for that to be revealed it makes sense for Iran to claim the lesser of two deep shames.
Particularly if there has been some kind of tacit acceptance of a status as a vassal state
to either the US or Israel behind the scenes to preserve the regime.
Perhaps the MEK or a different vassal ruler who is really crypto Jewish will be appointed
in Solemeinis place, and Iran will hence offer a symbolic enemy to justify the continuation
of the military industrial complex in both Israel and the US.
Even a blind squirrel, even a broken clock twice a day.. The Empire's statements and blind
accusations could have been for any tragedy in a country they were psyopsing, only a matter
of chance for them to be right at some time. In any case, it wasn't intentional on Iran's
part.
Only if accidental means a joint Russian/Iranian hit on a Ukrainian plane carrying fleeing
cia/mossad agents.
This whole situation has once again displayed how easy it is for the zio-media to control
what we see and hear and believe. Disturbingly, that means that things like metoo and
"believe all women" are operations too.
@the grand wazoo I wouldn't be surprised it the FDR shows that the plane strayed off its
registered Flightpath and was involved in a covert recon mission that went bad.
It reminds me too much of MH-17, which was not hit with a BUK but with bullets. Iran should have closed its airspace
because such tricks are to be expected, irrespective of the cause of the current accident. There is no immediate reason
for Iranians to fly to Ukraine, or anywhere else. It may sound silly but flying is still a special and dangerous thing and
should not be taken for granted.
For someone who doesn't watch television or read Iranian newspapers it was only reported
on Twitter and then repeated by PressTV and others on internet. Which parts of the story are
real?
Of course, it was a huge and most regrettable mistake. Doubtless, the Iranians will
compensate the victims for what that is worth. Most of the passengers were Iranians. I
suspect that many of the "Canadians" Trudeau is on about are of Iranian descent. They would
certainly be considered to be Iranians in Iran.
The series of coincidences highlighted in this article are remarkable. It has
synchronicity splashed all over it.
I worked at Tehran airport for some years prior to the Revolution. After the Revolution, I
volunteered to return on behalf of Raytheon (of all companies) to get some money owing. No
one else was prepared to go there. Iran Air personnel were delighted to meet me again and
they promptly paid the bill. I took a holiday to the Caspian with my ex-girlfriend.
A further piece of synchronicity is that I am currently visiting Kiev. The world is a
truly incestuous place.
Set aside the beatup of two operations that neither the CIA or any American agency carried
out the author has apparently failed to see the obvious. That is that the Iranians had no
possibility of covering up the missile strike. Or did he imagine that everyone who might tell
the truth could be kept permanently separated from plane parts and bodies which would have
shown unmistakeable and undeniable evidences of the strike.
Boeing's is, of course, not the first autopilot technology in existence, but this one
has been designed with counterterrorism first and foremost in mind. Not only is it
"uninterruptible" -- so that even a tortured pilot cannot turn it off -- but it can be
activated remotely via radio or satellite by government agencies.
Patrick Laforet
•
19 hours ago This is an interesting article on the possible causes and motivations of the
downing of the Boeing in Iran. It's clear that when we ask the question "Who benefits greatly
from this event", we are forced to say the US. (Google translation is decent)
.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE UKRAINIAN BOEING KILLED (show down) IN IRAN
.
https://inforuss.info/chto-...
Yeah, an airliner shootdown because the (tired, stressed, undertrained) SAM operators fucked
up. Fuckups are inherent to military operations in wartime, peacetime often enough too, and
the time of this accident was both combined, and that certainly made it likelier to happen,
too, dammit.
I am pleased to see Iran assume responsibility, promptly enough I reckon, for the
shootdown. I trust it will be writing suitable sized checks to the heirs, and one to the
Ukrainian airline too. About all that can be done; something that needs doing for everyone's
sake.
Iran's assuming responsibility for its shootdown of a civilian airliner by accident
contrasts to ours'.* The USA still is dodging its responsibility for the 1980 Itavia DC-9
shootdown. Most nobody in the USA knows about that incident, but I am told it remains an
ongoing sore/issue in Italy/Italian politics. My piece from years ago is here: https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/12/21/jimmy-carter-in-austin/
. Since writing this, I wrote Mr. Carter via the Carter Library and via his church in Plains,
GA, but never heard back. Unpleasant conclusions about Mr. Carter's integrity must be drawn
from this. And similar conclusions about the USA's, and its people's.
My condolences to the families.
Daniel N. White
*Yeah, and the French Navy and nation, too. Apparently back in '68 the French Navy
inadvertently shot down an Air France Caravelle over the Med. Immediate hiding of information
and physical evidence started and continues to this day. [Did you think I'd pass up this
opportunity to kick the French?]
When I compare these, it appears that the IRGC estimate of where the missile hit is WELL
AFTER transmission of flight data has ended.
Also, logically, a plane climbing a short distance from an airport should not resemble a
drone. Might an operator assume a drone if the plane were DESCENDING?
Thus, there's the possibility of a scenario where a bomb under the cockpit causes
the plane to start descending and the IRGC fire a missile as a because the plane's descent
causes the operator to surmise that it is a drone instead of a plane.
Might there have been a bomb AND missile hit?
Note: This possibility arises only because of what seems to be a mismatch in the data from
the airplane and the IRGC's estimate of where the plane was hit. Perhaps IRGC's graphic is
incorrect?
<> <> <> <> <> <>
Aside: AFAICT the plane wasn'tturning back to the airport ! It was
on a normal flight path which turned slightly but that turning was apparently exacerbated
after the plane was hit. That increased turning made it SEEM like it was turning back to the
airport.
Many of you still seemed perplexed as to why Iran allowed commercial flights to go on during
such a potentially tense time. Let me make it clear for everyone, they were tricked by the
ZioAmericans. Basically, the Iranians were allowed to get their " face saving attack " on the
Americans while thinking this would be the end of the whole episode. Little did they suspect
that the US had prepared the Ukrainian plane scenario followed by instantaneous protests. The
Iranians walked into a trap.
- Swiss Back Channel Helped Defuse U.S.-Iran Crisis -
The U.S. sent an encrypted fax via the Swiss Embassy in Tehran urging Iran not to escalate,
followed by a flurry of back and forth messages -
@Vasco da Gama Regarding the FAA NOTAMS restricting airspace a list is provided here. It is not accurate
to claim only Tehran was restricted:
Exactly. And if the Ukraine Civil Aviation Authority had followed the FAA lead and
grounded its aircraft in Iran , the Ukraine Air aircraft would not have gotten shot
down .
The Ukraine Civil Aviation Authority didn't exactly perform well either.
@Fog Of War Many of you still seemed perplexed as to why Iran allowed commercial flights to go on
during such a potentially tense time. Let me make it clear for everyone, they were tricked by
the ZioAmericans.
A more plausible reason is here . The relevant except
follows:
"The first thing a country should do in case of escalation of the military conflict is to
close the sky for civilian flights," said retired Ukrainian Gen. Ihor Romanenko, a military
analyst. " But this entails serious financial losses , fines and forfeits, therefore a
cynical approach prevailed in Iran."
CognitiveDissonance , Jan 12 2020 5:25 utc |
379Peter AU1 , Jan 12 2020 5:52 utc |
380
Jackrabbit 368 "Aside: AFAICT the plane wasn't turning back to the airport! It was on a
normal flight path which turned slightly but that turning was apparently exacerbated after
the plane was hit. That increased turning made it SEEM like it was turning back to the
airport."
From the Ukraine description of the damage, the pilots would be unlikely to have any
control over the plane even if they were not dead or incapacitated. From my understanding the
aircraft was on its way back to the airport when it crashed.
Iran government was intitaly very sure the aircraft came down due to a tehnical problem which
makes me think the pilots radioed in that they had a problem before they were hit. This is
why I think the plane was hit after the turn back to the airport.
if they turn back to the the airport brought the plane to where it was facing the military
site during the turn this may have caused the airdefence crew to fire. Already on high alert,
their coms down and perhaps the planes transponder stops transmitting whould be more than
enough suspition to down the aircraft.
A preplanned operation that cut air defence coms and disabled the aircraft (as in cut one
engine plus transponder) at the same time.
In b's previous piece on the aircraft, b had this to say "The airplane climbed out of Tehran
airport in a rather straight line. The teams that man the Tor systems around Tehran must be
used to the regular radar track of civil planes coming out of Tehran airport. That makes an
accidental launch somewhat unlikely."
This is still very relevent. Something about that flight was different causing the Tor
crew to fire. A sudden turn back to the airport along with trasponder transmissions stopping
and air defence comms down would cause this.
The Iranian apologia is a masterclass in grace..
Unfortunately the courage to admit responsibility is not understood as a civilised response,
but that is what one expects from barbarians.
Iran has admitted that it shot down the plane. Perhaps that was the intention of this
tragedy.
Do you remember how it was in Tehran in the election year of 2008?
Luce Ducet of the BBC was on the streets spruiking for the Iranian "colour revolution". But
Amadenijad won regardless.
They are trying it again but it won't work. Never does.
However there will be chaos and that has proven to be tremendously profitable.
DontBelieveEitherPr.@214 ( and other recent trolls)
Please do us a favor by helping with the following issues:
(1) list all countries invaded by the US compared to Iran. Each instance of an invasion of
a given country is required as some countries were invaded several times;
(2) In the last 200 years list all countries overthrown by a coup by the US and its
proxy's compared to Iran;
After failing in this simple task go back commenting somewhere else...
There are still a couple of things that bother me about this.
1.) is that for those of you who are saying it would be hard to distinguish an incoming
enemy plane from a commercial airliner such as Pometheus @ 178 who said:
6) A RADAR signature CANNOT distinguish a commercial airline aircraft from a military
aircraft - especially since some military aircraft use 737 airframes.
would that also apply to a cruise missile? That is, would it also be difficult to
distinguish between a commercial airliner and a cruise missile? Because, from what I've seen,
that's the claim that's being made -- that the SAM operator responsible for launching the
missile against the airliner was on high alert due to warnings of possible cruise missile
launches against Iran and that he mistook the target for a cruise missile -- or at least
suspected that it was -- which, according to the narrative, is why he only had a 10-second
window within which to make the decision to launch and why when there were "communication
problems" that prevented him from getting a hold of his superiors, he had to basically flip a
coin -- and unfortunately made the wrong choice. Now, I don't know if this narrative is still
current, because what I read did say this account was an "early assessment", but if it is, if
it's still what they're saying -- is it plausible? is what I'm asking. Or would this
represent a hole in their narrative? Maybe someone on here could clarify this for me?
Possibly Prometheus?
The other thing that bugs me, is who took the footage of the plane actually being hit? How
did he know to train his camera in that direction at that particular place and time? Is it
somebody who just hangs around and films planes that happen to be passing by? Or is it some
camera that is maybe in a fixed position, like a security camera, that just happened to pick
this up? (and actually, I have to say, it doesn't look like security camera footage to me) Or
what? Because it is conceivable that this could indicate foreknowledge... which, of course,
would indicate a planned event as opposed to an accident. Maybe someone could shed light on
this for me as well?
But because of my lingering doubts I have also entertained the possibility raised by paul
@ 188 that the Iranians may be lying about this in order to prevent (what would be certain)
further escalation. What better way to defuse the situation than by claiming it was all just
an unfortunate accident? (I guess what I have in mind is that it could have conceivably been
an MEK, CIA, Mossad operation timed to eclipse the Soleimani and al-Muhandis murder stories
and also further their campaign of escalation against Iran.)
Of course, I'm not maintaining that it's the case, necessarily. But the possibility did
cross my mind even before I came across paul @ 188's comment. And there are some obvious
problems with this narrative as well... which I probably don't need to go into here. But
whatever the case may be, I'd still like an answer to the misgivings I raised above... if
someone could shed light on them, I'd appreciate it.
Speculation: The cases with planes turned into weapons all seem to be Boeings and not
Airbuses if I am not mistaken, 4 Boeings @ 911 plus this one (PS752). You could argue that
MH370 (vanished) and MH17 (altered flight path) possibly also fall into this category, they
were Boeing planes. So a guess is that the Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilot (BUAP) plays a
role in some or all of these cases, and possibly other ones as well.
If BUAP was used to disable the PS752 pilots + all communication and then switch off one
engine during full throttle take-off, what does that do to the flight path? Perhaps an
interesting flight simulator exercise, but it would obviously turn. As others have pointed
out, a civilian plane does not have IFF and will therefore be identified as hostile when it
suddenly appears in front of a Tor-M1 battery because it was made to turn.
A detailed time-line would be useful, i.e. times for take-off, communication loss, when
the plane started turning, missile launch, missile hit, final crash. It could possibly narrow
the field of possibilities.
"I don't think it is beyond the US to have used the opportunity to test Iranian
radars."
Remember the Soviet downing of Flight KAL 007 back in September '83. The fear of WW3 then
was just as real as what we experienced last week. The US purposefully confused KAL 007's
identity by flying RC-135 reconnaissance flights near it before its reaching Soviet airspace
(both are Boeing, easy to mistake for each other). Some have mentioned that the pilot was
Korean CIA. Either way the US got invaluable data on Soviet air defenses by its incursion
near Vladivostok, and the USSR was attacked by the capitalist media afterward just as Iran is
now.
Whether via hacking or sabotage of the plane, transponder or IFF (e.g., as Peter AU1
outlines @232) or something else entirely, this kind of action or outright weaponization of
Ukrainian flight PS 752 is a possibility here as well.
ps -- massive thanks to bevin for very powerful comments @30 and @242.
Indeed it is speculation but that sometimes has its place to help break up the
mass-programming going on.
Remote drone control and flight by instruments are very close in technologies and one
could easily imagine
the inbuilt functions and back-doors provided in modern aircraft -- especially Boeing
variants for the obvious reasons.
Full-spectrum dominance (control when needed) has a meaning.
The IT technology for running total virtual computing systems were in commercial use in
the 1970s.
[e.g. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system)]
Today's modern commercial aircraft are almost entirely software driven and therefore simply
another virtual
machine. Flight simulators clearly operate on this principle.
I would suggest that MH370 night flight was more likely the class case study with a tribe
of top Chinese technologists being
re-routed on a flight out of Malaysia to "Paradise Island" (Diego Garcia) before the plane
was either ditched into the Indian
Ocean or re-cycled as a convenient relabeled option etc. In fact, from memory there were
several interesting scenarios around
MH17 that included cadavers and other features. I'm not sure where these ended up in the
wash.
The point being that unless there is something out the window in the real world to verify
against (like position of sun etc)
then I'm sure for military purposes a large airliner could be totally enclosed in a virtual
world simulation from the crew and
passenger perspective -- and quite possibly also satellite tracking for engine monitoring by
suppliers.
Before MH370 and MH17 Malaysia was being rather difficult and independent (and critical of
the Occupation of Palestine).
Apart from the geopolitical impacts, just the subsequent commercial impact on Malaysian
Airlines brought a rather
sudden silence, compliance and silence from the Malaysian quarter. And here we are again,
perhaps, simply a new cast of
actors as victims etc.
It is correct that the FAA ban relates to the region and not just Tehran (FIR Tehran). I had
checked that after my comment. It is still pointing to the fact that, as confirmed by
statements by Iran, that there was a lot of movement in the airspace around Iran and possibly
in Iran, and that civilian planes could be affected by misidentification - just the way it
happened, but with almost 150 Iranians on board of the plane (some with dual citizenships).
In my view, it is not feasible to assume the US did not respond to the Iranian strikes. The
US hit hard and fast, just as Trump had said. The US outmaneuvered Iran from an angle they
were not prepared for, right inside Iran, right in Tehran. The US come out of this clean. The
lack of an overt response to the Iranian strikes can't be emphasized enough; same goes for
the involvement of the CIA with Pompeo and Haspel.
Iran has been seduced by Trump and the illusory promise of symbolic actions/theatre. Iran
has lost the phony war because it failed to see the US is not just a unwelcome visitor that
will leave the Middle East when they are made to feel uncomfortable. The US cannot leave
the Middle East because it would destroy itself if it did so.
I don't agree with your first proposition. I don't even think it is possible for Iran to
have any illusions as to what they are up against militarily or the idiocy and malevolence of
the USA. They are also aware of the near term chance to fracture the continuity of Trump as
President and hope for a better or vaguely smarter person. If there is symbolism, then the
Iranians made it clear 'this is a slap in the face'. That means an initial gesture of
displeasure or challenge to a duel perhaps. It is not the revenge the Iranians have promised
to extract from the occupying forces of the five eyes plus NATO plus Saudi sponsored ISIS. I
anticipate there will soon be stage two of the vengeance extraction.
The USA will leave the Middle East either in tatters or with a smart withdrawal. The
battlefield has just enlarged and entered new and murderous dimensions (thanks mainly to the
assassination strategy of the USA) much as it did in Vietnam after the French were
slaughtered at Dien Bien Phu. This will take some time to play out and there may be no victor
but there will be a withdrawal of the USA.
You say the USA cannot withdraw due to its dependence on petrodollar cover of its
currency. I say it has very little choice. The entire Shia and even perhaps some mighty angry
Sunni are keen to kick the USA cadaver about the public square.
Osama Bin Laden was Sunni!! The forces of the USA are diustributed throughout the Sunni
lands at their invitation ;- the USA occupies Sunni holy lands: this from NEO-
As of now, the US has 5,000 troops in the UAE; 7,000 in Bahrain; above 13,000 in Kuwait;
3,00o in Jordan; 3,000 in Saudi Arabia; 10,000 in Qatar; 5,000 in Iraq; around 1,000 in
Syria -- all of course well within the range of Iranian missiles, making them an extremely
attractive targets for the Iranian forces.
Only in Iraq, about 5,000 US troops could very well be sitting ducks if the Popular
Mobilisation Forces were to launch a war of attrition. If history is any guide to future,
it might be unrealistic to completely rule out a replay of the 1983 Beirut barracks
bombings
The USA can huff and puff as much as it likes but I suspect they will be displeased and
shaken shitless if a couple of the vessels docked in Bahrain only a few kilometers from Iran
suddenly are sitting on the seabed.
What is revenge ADKC? What if the new leader of Oman is persuaded to end the invasion of
Yemen? This could leave the USA badly shaken. There is no certainty that the long war of
revenge will produce good results for Iran but any other course would be craven surrender to
both the USA and its Sunni running dogs and the Israeli paper tiger.
A shadowy tech firm with deep ties to Israeli intelligence and newly inked contracts to
protect Pentagon computers is partnering with Lockheed Martin to gain unprecedented access to
the heart of America's democracy.
There is the possibility of the uninterruptible auto pilot. It does exist but information
on if
it is installed in many Boeing planes is vague. Others here have mentioned the number of
incidents
Boeing aircraft have been involved in. I had thought of MH17 and MH370 but there is also 9 11
and
the Korean flight into soviet airspace. Many of the boeing aircraft are mechanical with
hydraulic
assist controls so it would require something like the uninterruptible auto pilot to
completely
take over the plane from the ground.
The Ukrainian NG has the mechanical controls, but its engines are computer controlled as are
some other
functions in the aircraft plus I believe the aircraft has an automated data link back to
boeing. This may
well have been sufficient for Boeing to turn of the Transponder and cut an engine so the
plane would turn
towards the military site. This would be more than sufficient to ensure the downing of the
aircraft under
the circumstances.
With an engine down the pilot would have immediately notified air traffic control and say he
was turning back.
This would also explain why the Iranian government were initially certain the crash was due
to technical issues.
Israel wants the US to take out any Iranian nuclear programme. The escalation needed for
such a hit was the only way to do that for Trump. Congress would never approve.
My guess is that Bushehr strikes failed to make an impression whatever they were intended
to hit, so it is back to regime change.
If it could ever be proven that Boeing planes are being used as RC weaponized drones, the
fallout would be epic.
Posted by: Sorghum | Jan 11 2020 23:18 utc | 312
No. It is enough to prove than one can switch off the transponder from a remote
place. I have told in case you fly some aircraft over Germany and switch off the
transponder it would take 2 minutes till you accompanied by a fighter jet.
Boeing's "uninterruptible" autopilot "would be activated ... remotely via radio or satellite
links by government agencies like the Central Intelligence Agency."
Not sure how long this lasts before someone messes it up with a mile long link. Why b does
not delete comments that disrupt the formatting is a good question.
In any event Iran played right into the US -Israeli hands. They should not have responded.
I said at the outset they would be smart not to. They simply should have followed protocol
under international law (feeble and futile as it would be). They accomplished nothing with
their missiles and showed weakness (30% missed or were duds) If they felt the need to
retaliate it should have been a covert op that provided plausible deniability.
I'm still baffled at the airline shoot down. Radar should have shown that the Boeing 737
was on a commonly used flight path heading away from the airport -- if it was inbound into
the country it would be easier to explain misidentification . The Boeing 737 should have been
transmitting a transponder identification code. If the equipment that picks that up, called
an IFF interrogator, was malfunctioning, battery operators would have considered the path and
speed of the plane on radar. The Flight was rising toward 8,000 feet at a leisurely 275 knots
when flight tracking data from its transponder cut out, a normal profile for an airliner. So
it is departing the area, climbing through medium altitude, not trying to hide its signature,
looking like a routine operation and its shot down?
I'd say if they shot this plane down they are a mess and that perhaps there are some
disloyal elements within the military who might want change and seized the opportunity to
make them look bad. Sanctions take a toll on moral and support of the people. Thats the
intention. Maybe its working.
I am sure the US and Israel will be ready to jump in and help restore peace and help with
reconstruction after the coming revolution. That wont be cheap so we (they) will have to get
50% of the oil/gas, and maybe a Trump Tower in Tehran (after he leaves office).
The Iranian "slap in The face" was effectively arranged with the US. What does that
mean?
The assassination of Soliemani was not a stupid irrational act - it was a warning to Iran,
Iraq and Iran that there will be no rapproachment. What does that mean for the likelihood of
Oman taking a stand against US interests?
You dismiss the petrodollar as it if has no real bearing, but it is everything - without
the petrodollar the US crumbles. And, what you also fail to realise is that the US cannot
extract itself from the petrodollar therefore it US trapped and compelled to to do anything
it can to defend the petrodollar.
Mao the uninterruptible auto pilot in the 21stcenturywire article is for fly by wire
aircraft. Airbus are fly by wire as are some boeing models, but the 737s, apart from engine
controls are not. 737 Max has fly by wire spoilers. On a fly by wire all that is required is
to override or replace pilot input signals into the computer to take control of the flight
controls.
The article speaks of embedded software being the uninterruptible auto pilot.
Nobody is asking questions why didn't Iran close down their airspace if they were expecting
retaliation, perhaps because they needed a human shield in case Americans attacked? And they
were expecting retaliation that is what the IRGC said.
i'm still not sure if some kind of hacking or cyberattack messed up the ability of iranian
defense to respond to the plane. at any rate, the ultimate responsibility lies with the u.s.
and israel who want regime change in iran and have tried to achieve that for decades.
@pretzelattack Iran also wanted regime change in the region through their export of the
Islamic Revolution. Most likely Iranian defenses got hacked, their communications lines were
down, but that does not excuse them for not closing the airspace (perhaps they needed a human
shield in case Americans attacked).
People here writing stuff as if Iran and Russia are like ww2 allies. No they are not, even
Putin said Russia is never going to allied herself with 1 country against another country in
the middle east, that means Putin's Russia is seeking equilibrium in the middle east. It
explains why Russia hesitated (after selling) to deliver the S-300 as agreed to Iran, while
willing to sell S-400 to Iraq. That is because Russia wants the whole Middle East to be able
to defend themselves against USA/Zionists and against each other -- that is equilibrium.
they could have just screwed up, too, dave. that happens in war. that doesn't put them on
some kind of equal footing with the u.s. and israel. iran hasn't attacked any other countries
that i know of, what have they done exactly to topple other governments anywhere?
@pretzelattack On what planet have you been living? Iran has been trying to export their
Islamic revolution throughout the region and elsewhere where there are muslims ever since
1979. Iran has a neo-con and a conservative faction. The neo-cons are radicals who are
seeking worldwide Islamic Revolution, the conservatives want to keep their revolution within
their own borders, it is like Stalin vs Trotsky, Stalin wanted communism in 1 country,
Trotsky wanted world wide revolution.
dave
You have just been spreading shit that it was never delivered. Upgraded S-300 systems were
delivered to Iran as soon as UNSC nuclear related sanctions were lifted.
@pretzelattack No they haven't screwed up, they (Iranian government) denied IRQGC's request
to close down the airspace. Same thing as with Ukraine, Ukraine did not close down their
airspace while they knew beforehand (as has been proven by news articles before the MH17
shootdown) there was a BUK in hands of rebels (if that news is true), the rebels were also
actively shooting down military jets with manpads. Yet the Ukraine did not close down the
airspace, they were using the airliners as human shield as has been proven by the fact their
jets were shadowing the airliners.
"Iran also wanted regime change in the region through their export of the Islamic
Revolution."
1. Which governments was Iran at odds with other than Western colonial stooges working for
Western imperial goals? Which leads to:
2. Any attempted "export" by Iran has been clear-cut self defense against relentlessly
aggressive Western exportation of imperial globalized capitalism. It's even more clear-cut
one-way US/Western aggression than in the case of the Cold War. Iran's 20th century
experiences with Western aggression in all forms is far more than enough to justify anything
they have done in response, which in any event has been relatively very modest.
415
"People here writing stuff as if Iran and Russia are like ww2 allies."
They may not be natural "allies", but they've long had a shared enemy in Western
imperialism in the Mideast. They still have that shared interest, which is becoming
increasingly existential whether Putin or the Iranians want to admit that to themselves or
not. I know this berserker US government. It ain't going home willingly. It's not going to go
gentle into that goodnight.
dave, i didn't say anything about closing down the airspace, although that could be another
screwup; i was talking about shooting down the plane. but since you bring it up, do you have
any evidence they were using planes as human shields, or any evidence about how the airspace
was not closed in the first place? still waiting on the questions of what governments iran
has tried to overthrow and how.
This is infuriating i just receieved an emergency alert regarding the picker nuclear power
plant telling me to watch local media yet cbc news still has no information what happend in
pickering its still wall to wall coverage of ithe iran air crash disaster
@pretzelattack Though nothing compared to what the Americans have been doing, they were
spreading their Islamic ideology throughout the region ever since the Islamic revolution of
1979, by exporting the concept of suicide bombings to the Palestinian areas (Hamas, Islamic
Jihad), their involvement with Yemen where houthi are trying to overthrow their government,
they have been involved in Bosnia. The middle east has seen a Islamic revival thanks to the
Iranians and the Americans who needed an Islamic block against secular and socialist block of
the 3rd world and 2nd world.
"Iran also wanted regime change in the region through their export of the Islamic
Revolution."
There wasn't any export that I was aware of. And certainly not regime change. The only
question was the Shi'a of Iraq, and Sistani rejected the Iranian model of vilayat-i
faqih.
@pretzelattack not closing down airspace while IRGC has asked for it because of possible
retaliation, that to me sounds like their politicians wanted victims at the hands of the
Americans in front of the world (for propaganda purposes). That is the same as in Sarajevo
where Bosnian Muslim government forces placed heavy weaponry in the middle of the heavily
populated city targeting Serb villages/positions around the city. That is classic human
shield against enemy retaliation, also good for propaganda purposes and world opinion in case
the enemy retaliates and creates casualties among civilians. UNPROFOR commander got really
angry at the Bosnian forces and demanded withdrawal of the heavy weaponry from the heavily
populated area, the UNPROFOR commander even threatened to bomb Bosnian Muslim positions
because of this provocation by the Bosnian Muslim government forces.
the yemenis are being slaughtered by the saudis, i don't see the iran aid as regime change.
and the u.s. had a secular block against the socialist world in saddam till they threw him
under the bus. i'm not sure who came up with the idea of suicide bombing, but i don't
associate it specifically with iran. it's just another tactic, no more objectionable than
pushing typing something on a keyboard half a world away and blowing somebody up by drone,
and i don't see how it relates specifically to iran trying to overthrow other governments. i
don't support iran's theocratic leanings, but my impression is that prior to the u.s. and
u.k. deposing mossaddegh iran was more of an inward looking country.
"The middle east has seen a Islamic revival thanks to the Iranians and the Americans who
needed an Islamic block against secular and socialist block of the 3rd world and 2nd
world."
Yes indeed, the Arabs and the Mideast in general originally wanted to go the route of
secular nationalism and only turned to a more religious-oriented movement when the West made
nationalist progress impossible. Islamic radicalism wasn't their first choice. From what I've
read it sounds like Sayyid Qutb originally had less of an audience than my obscure blog. But
they came to realize it was their only effective option.
That, too, is 100% on the West. All fundamentalisms are modern movements of reaction
against the aggression of other movements within modernity, most obviously Western cultural,
economic, military imperialism.
The US drove the Yugoslav firestorm by unilaterally recognizing Bosnian independence while
the UN was still trying to work out a negotiated settlement. The US egged them on by implying
or promising military support. The Bosnians were more like pawns and at any rate certainly
were not Iranian proxies acting in accord with what you allege with zero evidence to be
Iran's aggressive Islamist plan for world domination.
"I'm still baffled at the airline shoot down. Radar should have shown that the Boeing 737
was on a commonly used flight path heading away from the airport -- if it was inbound into
the country it would be easier to explain misidentification."
Look, I'm not in any position to say what did (or did not) happen. And neither is anyone
else outside a very small covert closed group -- and that probably includes the Iranians with
their (allegedly) modern rocket technology and somewhat 19th century thinking and governance
systems.
What I do assume is: any technology that the public finds on the magazine/website du jour
is already out dated by at least one cycle and probably edging into the release for
commercial market phase.
In a previous post I suggested that any virtual software computer system (of which modern
jet airliners are mostly -- with a bit of flying hardware attached) can be, in theory, easily
separated out into an onion-layered virtual operating system environment which, for all
intents and purposes, provides 100% of the simulated environment data/parameters between the
layers and applications. The cybernetic world has run on this in the business world since the
late 20th century. I doubt the military are in catch-up mode -- quite the opposite, I'd
assume.
How do you or I know that what the Iranian 'saw,' or more importantly, thought they saw in
that 10 second 'engineered' gap?
One does not need to go full-spectrum Matrix or SkyNet thinking (just yet) to see where
this is headed. But I raise an eyebrow at any narrow thinking precluding advanced AI
scenarios that synthesis real-world and psychological-world vectors to exploit and manipulate
the situation in focus towards desirable outcomes.
Knowing the Iranian character and worldview, and the religious top-down control culture
and systems of command (and their weaknesses), allows for strategic modelling of scenarios
that, if not directly controlled and created in the virtual 'digital' software world --
probably a few years off yet except in niche environments (hello major MIC supplier Boeing!)
-- then at least in terms of statistical 'swarms' of data that nudge the real world towards
higher probability preferred scenario. Whether Bayesian statistics is relevant or not, there
are advanced options to experiment with.
This cluster-fuck by the Iranian military, set off by an equivalent of 21st century
"Archduke Franz Ferdinand" event is like watching (unfortunately, imo, and only because I
believe a balanced multi-polar world is a safer scenario) a Mexican peasant running after his
hat just blow off his head by a gust of wind. Comical if not so bloody dangerous for the
global geopolitical and economic context.
NK is another case altogether. They have enough nuke or no-nuke (as does Israel
apparently) binary options to be treated with some junk-yard guard dog 'respect'. But the
romantic poets and intellectuals of Tehran (with their 4,000 years of increasingly irrelevant
cultural history) are just being played with like a wounded mouse by a cat.
I had written off the USA in accord with the public narrative until this event. Now I've
sat back and looked at it again and the pattern looks entirely different. Trump or not, this
has coordinated psyops dimensions flashing red all over, imo.
If what I have set out here as a possible (plausible?) scenario is even anywhere near a
reality then Iran (Mullah version) is on the edge of collapse. The people will rise up for
any number of reasons -- but one critical emerging one will be simply utter frustration with
trying to live and work in the modern global world with a state-based ideology suited for the
Crusades of the Middle Ages. Why not just uniform up in 'British Red Coats' with a red cross
labeled "shoot here!" across the heart? [*]
The last item of interest towards this view is the almost hysterical reaction by the US to
Russia's S300/S400/S500... technology expanding into broader markets. I'd suggest, apart from
being high-class radar and missile technology, it is also likely resistant to the digital
manipulation risk that 'sees' a Boeing lilting sideways (and mapping mentally) as a cruise
missile within a critical window of weakness etc. Perhaps one can see behind the Oz wizard
curtain better?
----
[*] - Since 9/11 it has been clear to some in the systems/cybernetics fields that an emerging
'chaos' orientated global governance model was coming into play. The use of the periodic
'shock' is the key. Think defibrillation as the metaphor to keep a certain heart-beat rhythm
going while chaos (systemic fibrillation) reigns -- and is even promoted in some contexts.
The book to read on the theory is "Chaos: Making a New Science" by James Gleick (1987). He
applies/explains the defibrillation principles. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos:_Making_a_New_Science
)
USA has attacked secular Iraq, secular Lybia, they helped Al Qaeda and other Islamists in
their battle against secular governments (Afghanistan), USA (democrats) are in bed with the
Muslim Brotherhood, USA has helped the Muslim Brotherhood and instigated the revolution in
overthrowing the secular/military government of Egypt. USA was involved with the Arab Spring
which targeted secular governments.
Soviet Union and USA both supported Saddam's Iraq against Iran, then USA dumped Saddam
starting in 1991.
Seems to me you need to swot up on the Sunni and Shia.
When you find out the differences come back.
This for instance...
Craig Murray 4th Jan
Quote
The truth of the matter is that if you take every American killed including and since 9/11,
in the resultant Middle East related wars, conflicts and terrorist acts, well over 90% of
them have been killed by Sunni Muslims financed and supported out of Saudi Arabia and its
gulf satellites, and less than 10% of those Americans have been killed by Shia Muslims tied
to Iran.
This is a horribly inconvenient fact for US administrations which, regardless of party, are
beholden to Saudi Arabia and its money. It is, the USA affirms, the Sunnis who are the allies
and the Shias who are the enemy. Yet every journalist or aid worker hostage who has been
horribly beheaded or otherwise executed has been murdered by a Sunni, every jihadist
terrorist attack in the USA itself, including 9/11, has been exclusively Sunni, the Benghazi
attack was by Sunnis, Isil are Sunni, Al Nusra are Sunni, the Taliban are Sunni and the vast
majority of US troops killed in the region are killed by Sunnis.
Precisely which are these hundreds of deaths for which the Shia forces of Soleimani were
responsible? Is there a list? It is of course a simple lie. Its tenuous connection with truth
relates to the Pentagon's estimate – suspiciously upped repeatedly since Iran became
the designated enemy – that back during the invasion of Iraq itself, 83% of US troop
deaths were at the hands of Sunni resistance and 17% of of US troop deaths were at the hands
of Shia resistance, that is 603 troops. All the latter are now lain at the door of Soleimani,
remarkably.
Those were US troops killed in combat during an invasion. The Iraqi Shia militias –
whether Iran backed or not – had every legal right to fight the US invasion. The idea
that the killing of invading American troops was somehow illegal or illegitimate is risible.
Plainly the US propaganda that Soleimani was "responsible for hundreds of American deaths" is
intended, as part of the justification for his murder, to give the impression he was involved
in terrorism, not legitimate combat against invading forces. The idea that the US has the
right to execute those who fight it when it invades is an absolutely stinking abnegation of
the laws of war.
As I understand it, there is very little evidence that Soleimani had active operational
command of Shia militias during the invasion, and in any case to credit him personally with
every American soldier killed is plainly a nonsense. But even if Soleimani had personally
supervised every combat success, these were legitimate acts of war. You cannot simply
assassinate opposing generals who fought you, years after you invade.
@Russ Yes Bosnia was primarily US proxy, Alija Izetbegovic, Bosnian Muslim leader, he staged
a coup with US backing, before he organized the illegal arming of his political party with
illegal weapons, they started the war by attacking Yugoslav forces, Alija Izetbegovic wanted
an Islamic State according to the Iranian revolution (as he had written in his book "Islamic
Declaration"), many Iranian mujahideen (including Solaymani himself) besides famous Al Qaeda
members went to Bosnia to fight (together). The Clinton administration gave the green light
to Iran for their support to the Bosnian Muslims (which also included Sunni Islamic radicals
and known 911 hijackers). Iran is willing to support Sunni terrorists if that is in their
geopolitical interests, just as they supported Sunni radicals in the Palestinian areas
(suicide bombings). Now Iran is enemy with Sunni radicals/terrorists, but Iran always wanted
to unite all Islamic forces against Israel (and Christian world). Russia is seeking
equilibrium in the middle east, Putin does not want to allied himself with 1 country against
another country in the middle east, Russia does not want to allied herself with Iran against
Israel, or the other way around.
No more "whatabout" distraction from Iranian incompetence and guilt. One shootdown at a time.
Iranian officers must be punished, commanders dismissed, compensation offered.
US and other Western crimes are separate, keep them separate.
"It is a mystery to me why the airport was not closed down that night, esp. in view of the
FAA warning that specifically addresses Tehran."
This questions has been asked multiple times by numerous people, b included. Speculation
only, but one possibility is that after the missile strike on the air bases the Iranian
government was expecting a military response from the U.S., perhaps even Shock and Awe Ver 2.
Maybe in that highly tense period somebody high up decided it would be better not to close
the airspace immediately, thinking it would complicate matters for the U.S. And if a civilian
plane did get hit in the cross-fire, the U.S. could be rightfully blamed.
Immediately after this horrific tragedy the leaders of the US Canada Austria Germany Holland
as well as other Western leaders claimed that a missile had brought the plane down sighting
"intelligence." How did the Western leaders know so quickly? Were their intelligence
organizations privy in any way in bringing down the plane? Through hacking air defense radars
or some other high-tech tools?
As the fog of War lifts, as we proceed forward I suspect we will know more. A lot
more.
-That now The Donald comes Twitting in Farsi is the obvious evidence that he does not
manage his Twitter account, but one of his "ideologues", or a CIA agent...I bet Steven
Miller...that nazi disguised in a gentleman suit trying, without success, to constrain his
overwhelming rage againt everybody who do not profess his ideas...
-The regime in Oman will do nothing and will never join the Axis of Resistance, as a
regime which resulted from a coup d´etat supported by the US/UK against its own
father/monarch. We will be dándonos con un canto en los dientes if they remain
somwhow "neutral"...
People who are more worried for their long time made up turbans, who hate getting untidy by
any reason, do not usually take part in any fight, but like to remain as espectators...
That same could be said of the Swiss...who had the entrails to remain neutral during the nazi
carnage, in the voew of all Europe being invaded, destroyed, submitted...hence they are now a
rich country who act mainly as postman of the US...they had never to recover and rebuilt
anything from smithereens as the rest of all....
-@Vintage Red, I join your expression of gratitude to bevin, although had to search for
your numbered comments amongst the sea of trolls, but you notice the clear contrast with
other alleged leftist resident of always ( notice how well they swim here in this sea of
trolls and how they have taken advantage today to be prolific....)
That of bevin would be the common stance of any decent honest leftist, or person, in the
world. The others resident here, who seem part time lefties, they really are not, but
Trotskyite NATOist capitalist imperialist fifth column, the ones who have disintegrated and
dismantled the genuine left in Europe and the whole West with their confussing stances, one
day they say this, the other just the opposite....they criticize, slightly, the US, but then,
at the first opprtunity, fall over any country or people from the resistance field as a
hammer, justifying that way the evil deeds of the US and its cohort of criminal collaborating
governments in Europe and North America.
-I continue finding the Russian stance in all these events shamefully mild, when not
totally absent.
The US and five eyes Orwellian hypocracy is far worse than any suicide attackers - in fact
they now back the majority of them - the destruction a good part of the world in their war of
terror, the humanitarian bombs and right to protect, weapons of mass destruction and vials of
white powder regime changing friend and foe alike... the other day I had the pleasure of
happening to be near a radio and had to listen to MH17 2.0 narrative ad nauseam. When Iran
officials still thought the plane had come down due to technical problems fife new not only
that it was downed by a surface to air missile, but that it was downed with a Tor
missile.
With that it was completely obvious five eyes had pulled off another MH17 stunt.
And now shit head trolls like yourself and garbage man come to infest this site.
Now that Iran admitted downing the plane by mistake, some western journalists are pushing the
narrative that it did it on purpose, and not by accident:
Stephen Bryen is the broken clock who was, for the first time in his life, right about the
cause of the downing of the plane. Now he's riding on this excitement and is going one step
further, echoing Trudeau's accusation one day earlier.
His main point of argument is that it is not possible the Tor operator had "only 6
seconds" to decide.
In the last thread, people who used the "it's too much coincidence" argument won the
debate against all odds.
Now it's time for another "it's too much coincidence" argument: why, of all planes, it was
a Boeing? Why, of all nationalities, it was Ukraine?
If Iran really downed the plane on purpose, then we're in counter-intelligence territory.
The list of the names of the passengers is already out; some people here highlighted the fact
that there were nuclear scientists in it; others highlighted the fact that the Americans can
"mask" the signatures of a Boeing to make it look like a military plane; others got so far as
to speculate about some kind of autopilot from afar. The correct question, though, should be:
what did the Iranians discovered in or about that specific flight of such importance that
they thought it better to publicly admit they downed it "by mistake"?
Yes thats the same message that came with the alert no details on what happend though.
Pickering has a terrible safety record so the government assurances mean very little to me if
they felt this was important enough to send out an emergency warning saying you dont need to
do anything they should at least give some explantion of what happend - as im typing they
send out another emergency alert saying the first alert was sent in error what a bunch of
monkeys what is going on another Hawaii missile drill
vk "what did the Iranians discovered in or about that specific flight of such importance that
they thought it better to publicly admit they downed it "by mistake"
Over the last years, Iran has gone to great pains to do things by the letter of
international law. It has top quality diplomats and statesmen like Zarif. It wishes to trade
with the world, be accepted by the world while retaining sovereignty and way of life. IT
complied with the original stipulation of the nuke deal for a year after US pulled out, and
with the introductions of US sanctions, European countries pulled out of deals and trade with
Iran. Even now Iran is still within the terms of the nuke deal as the are stipulations on
what can be done if a party pulls out or does not abide by the deal.
Iranian government for the first day or so where sure the plane had come down due to
technical problems. When they found it had been shot down as their enemies were saying, it
was a major blow. Those few days of denying it had been shot down undone much of the
painstaking diplomatic work they had accomplished over a decade or so.
Also on the military side, Iranian military have proven to be very professional and high
tech, but this shootdown will be used against them to try and show incompetence as many of
the trolls here are doing.
"Ukraine did not close down the airspace, they were using the airliners as human shield as
has been proven by the fact their jets were shadowing the airliners."
If we accept your view then we must accept that this was an intended win/win situation for
Ukraine; Ukraine could use civilian aircraft for cover and, also, induce the rebels to shoot
down a civilian aircraft. (I have a different view of MH17 but it would be OT to go
into).
The MH17 scenario that you describe can only be comparable to Iranian shooting down PS752
if the US used similar tactics (presumably by use of electronic warfare) in order to induce
Iran to shoot down PS752...
...or is it that your posts are full of fact-free, poorly researched whataboutism that
should just be disregarded by any thinking person?
vk @444 asks the correct question? Perhaps, Iran know much more but a pre-requisite is
that they must take responsibility for what they did - shooting down PS752) - and, perhaps,
this is not what the US/west expected Iran to do? How would Iran know? Perhaps, Russian
monitoring of US EW activity has revealed much more than the US expected? And, perhaps,
Russia will not agree to any public relevation at present?
To your list of Sunni terrorists´ victims, add all those resulting from terrorist
attacks in Europe in the last years, by, then discovered, suspciously Sunni extremists
related to mosques and mullahs funde by KSA for long time old known of the security services
of any European country which has suffered these terrorist attacks....
Everybody a bit informed and their dogs knows by now that all these attacks were made to
create "shock and awe" amongst the gullible population to jusitify European intevention in
the illegal wars on Lybia, Syria and Iraq....What the gullible population do not know is that
their governments were allying in all those invaded and slaughtered countries the same Sunni
extremist terrorist who have slaughtered their own population in Europe, and not only, but
morevoer they gave them prizes... like with the case of the UK MI6 founded/funded/trained
White Helmets of HM...
There is a lot of tin hat conspiracy theorising in this thread (1) centred on an alleged FAA
ban on US flights over "Tehran", and (2) that the Ukraine flight allegedly turned back to the
airport before being hit by the missile.
The nonesense over the alleged FAA ban on US flights over "Tehran" has thankfully already
been dealt with by the posting of the full text of the NOTAMs: the FAA ban, which applied
only to US aircraft, was for all US flights in the whole of Iran airspace and the whole of
Iraq airspace. Such a ban is fully to be expected in view of recent US military actions.
As regards the alleged turn of the aircraft. The
Flightradar24 site shows the actual path of the Ukraine flight up to the point the
transponder signals ceased (the point where the missile hit), and compare it both with the
other 9 flights from Tehran that morning, and with the previous 45 scheduled flights by
PS752. It is crystal clear that the only turn the aircraft made up to the point it was hit
was 100% in line with it's scheduled flight plan. The only difference that could be drawn is
that in terms of angle of climb it was well below average - almost but not quite the lowest
of the 45 flights - because the aircraft was way overweight and therefore had difficulty
climbing even on full power. The pilot Peter Haisenko
wrote in detail about that. The turn, however, (up to the end of transponder
transmissions) was only about 50 degrees, and was completely in line with other flights. The
turn was also completed well before the missile hit - when the missile hit it was already
established on straight and level flight.
The video of the Aerospace Commander's presentation shows a very sketchy hand-drawn
diagram which is not to scale, with an exaggerated turn (but still depicted as less than the
claimed 90 degrees). However the Aerospace Commander's sketch and the Flightradar24 charts
are wholly in agreement despite the very inaccurate sketch - this is clear from the locality
map given by Flightplan24, and further down the page the elevation plan, which shows the
topography in 3-D.
In the latter picture you can clearly see the mountains in the background, and two smaller
pointed hills in the foreground. From the video it is clear that the air defence base was at
the top of the second (further) of these small hills, obviously utilising the high ground for
the defence of Tehran. Virtually all the flights shown by Flightradar24 first start to turn
at exactly the same point - level with the first hill - and turn towards a path going
immediately to the left of the second hill where the air defence is mounted. This means that
immediately on completion of the turn, all these flights would be pointing nearly directly at
the air defence base, exactly as shown on the commander's sketch (except that the latter
exaggerated somewhat the angle of turn). Comparing the map with the 3-D view this can be seen
quite clearly.
This does not say anything about whether there was a turn after being hit - if the missile
hit one engine this would automatically cause the aircraft to turn unless compensated for by
the pilots, who may have been already dead - that is irrelevant to this issue.
I do share the gut feeling that the incident may have been set-up by the US, because there
are a lot of grounds for suspicion, but as far as I know there is no concrete evidence in the
public domain in support of that suspicion at this stage - certainly not in terms of an
unusual turn before being hit by the missile.
Grounds for the Iranians to believe they had detected cruise missiles are likely very
strong - the US uses electronic warfare measures (see the link posted by Peter AU) which
cause the Iranian radar to see phantom images of moving objects. Many US aircraft were moving
around the outside(??) of Iranian airspace, presumably creating these phantom radar images of
cruise missiles, therefore the Iranians would presumably have "seen" these suspected cruise
missiles in the border regions, assumed they then penetrated Iranian territory unseen by
hugging the ground through the mountains, in which case they could suddenly appear
subsequently at some stage where radar can detect them.
The fact that the plane was brought down because of the conflict initiated by Trump makes
everything about it very suspicious. Just because Iran states that it is responsible does not
disqualify the possibility that they were not made to make this mistake. We do not know the
facts as to what the Iranian defense system saw as that Ukrainian plane was flying.
I continue to be highly suspicious of the fact that it is a Ukrainian plane. Ukraine is
firmly in the Anglo-Zionist camp, period. Zelensky or not the deal was sealed when V. Nuland
finished her work in Kiev. The only reason Ukraine made a deal with Russia is because it is
in financial trouble and needs revenue. The West will not keep it afloat. So thinking that
suddenly it is conducting its own foreign policy is incorrect.
As an aside. Does a sovereign country bring in a man like this to help it run its country
?
Mikheil Saakashvili - born 21 December 1967) is a Georgian and Ukrainian politician.[7][8]
He was the third President of Georgia for two consecutive terms from 25 January 2004 to 17
November 2013. From May 2015 until November 2016, Saakashvili was the Governor of Ukraine's
Odessa Oblast.[1][9][10] He is the founder and former chairman of the United National
Movement party.
How about this one,
Natalie Ann Jaresko is an American-born Ukrainian investment banker who served as Ukraine's
Minister of Finance from December 2014 until April 2016.[1] In 20 March 2017, she was
appointed as executive director of the Financial Oversight & Management Board for
Puerto Rico.
or this one,
Aivaras Abromavičius is a Lithuanian-born Ukrainian investment banker and politician.
On 31 August 2019 Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky appointed Abromavičius the
Director General of Ukroboronprom.[1] Previously he was Ukraine's Minister of Economy and
Trade starting in December 2014 (Abromavičius announced his resignation on 3 February
2016). He did not retain his post in the Groysman Government that was installed in 14 April
2016.[2]
Ukraine is a Captured State.
Thus the possibility exists that that plane may have had some equipment placed in it in
Kiev that could trick the Iranian Defense system to think a craft is a danger to it. Kiev
would have been a safe place to do it (reasons above). If this were true does anyone here
believe that announcing this fact Public opinion would believe it ? I for one don't. Russia
knows how that worked out with Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17). No matter what Iran would
have said that would have been spun in the West as attempting to blame someone else. Thanks
to this all attention in the Media would have been on Iran which Trump would have loved.
Again, Russia knows how this was played out in Malaysia MH17 case. The average CNN viewer in
that case would not see how the BUKA Russian was being used as evidence that it was Russia
that shot the plane down.
Iran did the right thing in admitted that it was responsible whether it was their fault
or not. There was simply no way to win in the case of having being fooled into
shooting the plane down.
The FAA banned flights of commercial airplanes over Tehran 2 hours before the plane came
down. Note, over Tehran, not over Iran. That's quite specific. Communication was lost when
the officer had to make a decision. Communication jamming is part of modern warfare. Maybe
this is a thwarted attempt by the US at a "disproportionate response" to Iranian strikes.
Maybe this is why Trump is not that excited and had to take drugs before performing his Iran
speech.
Iran deserves respect, if only because it openly and honestly admitted its responsibility for
what happened. This shows the maturity and courage of the political and military leadership
of this country.
It is clear that the plane was shot down unintentionally. It is also obvious that Iran was
provoked by the actions of the United States.
This is called life. That happens. And not only that. Human factor. We cannot avoid this
and 100% eliminate all risks.
In 1914, an idiot killed a monarch, which led to a large-scale war and the death of
millions of people. Human factor. Soldiers accidentally make the wrong buttons. Workers at an
oil factory smoke in the wrong place, resulting in huge fires. People do not notice an
extinct burner on a gas stove, resulting in an explosion, collapse of the house and death of
people. Vacationers tourists did not extinguish after themselves a fire in the forest, as a
result of which a giant fire covers thousands of hectares of territory. During the invasion
of Iraq in 2003, American Patriot systems destroyed a friendly British Tornado fighter bomber
(in addition to the destroyed American fighters). In February 2017, the Russian Aerospace
Forces mistakenly attacked the Turkish military in northern Syria. In 2001, Ukrainian air
defense, conducting military exercises, shot down a Russian passenger plane TU-154 over the
Black Sea, 78 people died. So on and so on... The technique and equipment is imperfect.
People all the more.
The Iranian situation is very similar to what happened in September 2018. Syrian air
defense shot down a Russian military plane, provoked by deliberate actions by Israeli
aviation. Just to remind that the Russian side has made it clear who is the true culprit of
the tragedy. In the case of Iran, the same thing. It is one thing if the plane crashes as a
result of a pilot error or a technical malfunction. But when it is now clear that plane was
shot down, and the Iranian air defense acted as it was provoked by the actions of the United
States, then the guilt of the United States only increases.
Iran bears very little, if any responsibility in this matter.
The United States is entirely to blame-what has occurred is exactly what the
US government was aiming at. It has created an atmosphere of fear and panic
in the knowledge that it would create chaos-that normal government would break down
and mistakes be made.
The US plays with the lives of people. It plays God, a God dedicated to the principle of pure
evil.
It plays with people's lives, the lives of the 'ants' that Harry Lime saw from above
Vienna,
as a matter of course. In Gaza children with cancer cannot get treatment because the US and
Israel
want to make life harder for their parents. The evil objective is to madden the people to the
point
that they will rise up and kill those who oppose the Occupation. In Colombia, Bolivia,
Honduras, Ecuador
and Brazil-even as we speak Death Squads-trained armed and financed-by the US and Israel
stalk those
who want to reform their society. In Venezuela the supply of food and medicine is interrupted
as far as
the power of the US and its allies extends.
Around the world where there are evil deeds being carried out, where children are starving,
medicines are
withheld, protesters are being assassinated and militias are terrorising the population-the
hands of the
United States and its allies are always evident. It was they who imported tens of thousands
of wahhabis
into Afghanistan, Russia, China and the battlegrounds that we all know in order to kill,
frighten and impoverish
the people. The people of Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Iran, Lebanon and far beyond- all of
them have seen their
living standards diminished, their security removed their hopes of happiness systematically
thwarted.
In order, evil order, to punish them, not for anything that they have done but in the hope
that they will
surrender themselves to the United States and its agents, submit.
The truth is that human history has never seen a regime like that now ruling the United
States and attempting
to rule the world. Nothing compares with it, the Nazis were simply malicious pygmies in
comparison.
Many people from Trudeau to posters here refuse to admit what is crystal clear and what
history will
confirm: all the deaths that come, daily, weekly, yearly from this assumption by the United
States of
prerogatives, religion reserves for God; all the deaths that come from this juvenile playing
with the lives of
ordinary people are entirely the choice of the US government.
Trudeau bears more responsibility for the deaths of these airline passengers than anyone in
Iran. It was his choice to
keep the Embassy doors closed, to withdraw diplomatic representation and to join the US in
its sanctions
against the Iranian people. He has made the same choice in Venezuela, where similar accidents
may occur (have occurred
as in the sabotage of the power grid). People died then, people die daily and they do so
because of choices made by
governments playing with the lives of the people.
Everyone of the victims would be alive today had not the mafia in Washington decided to smash
up their society.
And they would almost certainly have been alive still had Trudeau and Freeland-and the four
parties in Ottawa- done
, what most Canadians want them to do and disassociate themselves and Canada from the evil
games Washington plays.
I hope that no Iranian is tricked into surrendering to evil. I hope that the tone of the
Revolutionary Guards-one
of sincere regret and manly apology- does not inform their future moves which must be to
re-double their commitment
to the defence of their country and the defeat of the most evil government the world has ever
seen.
Re: Trudeau's escalating attempts at scene-stealing
The odious, opportunistic popinjay Trudeau seems to have calculated that it's time for him
to upgrade his "brand" from "dashing young Bonnie Prince Justin" to "Mature Statesman with
Gravitas".
Thus, his predilection for elbowing his way to the head of the Western Hegemony Official
Spokesperson line and bumptiously blowing off his big bazoo.
The new beard is a "tell"; some men, especially handsome but "baby-faced" men, are
susceptible to an abiding adolescent impulse to grow facial hair in order to appear more
mature. It can't be a coincidence that Trudeau's beard correlates with his increased penchant
for making (fatuous) bold and aggressive pronouncements on geopolitical crises.
I know that Trudeau has a pedigree that nominally puts him in the top drawer of Canada's
political aristocracy. Still, he reminds me a lot of the Venezuelan golpista
boy-toy Juan "Random Guy" Guaidó.
Prometheus - Thank you for your information. I previously thought the transponder signal
would identify the plane as a civilian aircraft but one question remains for me: even without
IFF would the airtraffic control not (verify the identity)and be in contact with the pilot
when the course is changed? Is there no coordination between civlian and military
air-control? (especially in such a tense situation)
(the Ukrainain plane turned around - why?)
Still ...despite the admission it is strange that an aviation expert like Peter Haisenko
(retired Lufthansa pilot with special technical knowledge who knows Tehran airport well) came
to a very different conclusion: (excerpt from German Original - my translation)
Weil mittlerweile bekannt ist, dass die Boeing nach dem ersten Aufprall noch etwa 500 Meter
über den Boden geschrammt ist, darf man davon ausgehen, dass sie in flachem Winkel den
Boden berührt hat, etwa wie bei einer Landung. Sie ist also nicht „ungespitzt"
in den Boden gerammt.
Since it is now known the Boing grazed the ground for about 500 metres after impact it is
reasonable to assume that she touched the ground at a flat-angle, like in a regular landing.
[...]
Das deutet wiederum darauf hin, dass sich die Piloten in ihrer Notlage gar nicht bewusst
waren, wie nahe sie dem Boden bereits sind und völlig unerwartet Bodenkontakt hatten.
[...]
This is an indication that the Pilots were not aware of their emergency (how close to the
ground they were) and unexpectedly touched the ground. [...]
Fest steht wohl, dass die ukrainische Boeing nach dem Start einen Motorschaden hatte. Und
zwar einen soliden, mit Feuer und Totalausfall.
It appears to be certain that the Ukrainian Boeing suffered an engine breakdown after
take-off, a severe one with fire and total failure.
Zunächst stelle ich fest, dass es nahezu unmöglich ist, ein Passagierflugzeug in
dieser Flugphase abzuschießen. Man müsste schon jemanden mit einer kleinen
Boden-Luft-Rakete im erwarteten Abflugkorridor platzieren, der dann dem abfliegenden Jet
die Rakete hinterher schießt. Dieses hitzesuchende Projektil könnte dann einen
Motor treffen, was aber kein zwingender Grund für einen Absturz ist. Mit einem Motor
kann das Flugzeug weiter fliegen, wenn die Rahmenumstände entsprechend aller
Vorschriften gesetzt worden sind. Eine größere, aufwendigere
Flugabwehreinrichtung scheidet für diese Flugphase und den Ort aus. Nicht nur wegen
der geringen Höhe über Grund, sondern auch, weil es solche Anlagen in dieser
Gegend nicht gibt. Wenn, dann befinden sie sich im weiteren Umkreis, um Angriffe aus
größerer Höhe weit vor der Stadt abzuwehren. Warum ist es dann
überhaupt zu dem Absturz gekommen?
Haisenko asserts that " it is nearly impossible to shoot down a passenger plane in this
phase of the flight. In order to do that you'd need to place a (sort of) MANPAD in the
expected flight-corridor and the heat-seaking missile could then destroy one of the
engines.But this does not automatically lead to the crashing of the plane since it is able
to fly with one engine [...] A bigger anti-aircraft system is not suitable for this phase
of the flight ... these systems aim to intercept (destroy) targets flying at much higher
altitutes and farther away from the cities ... So why did the crash happen?
Obviously he wrote that before the Iranian admission was published and with limited
knowledge but still one wonders if electronic warfare played a role and certain parties
wanted that plane to crash ... (at least a closer look at the passenger list seems
advisable)
That is one of the best posts I have ever read and I have read more than a few.
Never a truer word.
If it needed a precis.......
Madeleine Albright.
The deaths of of 500,000 Iraqi children is a price worth paying.
This from a woman who had played a leading role in the destruction of Yugoslavia and the
handing of the Serbian province of Kosovo to the KLA a forerunner of Al Qaeda and ISIS.
Today a narco criminal islamic state - and a base for the bloodletting and birthing of the
European Caliphate.
And unlimited proxies for the USA War Of!! Terror across the Middle East.
Pure evil.
Sadly due to their own incompetence, Iran lost there moral high ground!
A great disappointment to those of us who supported Iran through thick and thin.
The FAA banned flights of commercial airplanes over Tehran 2 hours before the plane came
down. Note, over Tehran, not over Iran. That's quite specific. Communication was lost when
the officer had to make a decision. Communication jamming is part of modern warfare. Maybe
this is a thwarted attempt by the US at a "disproportionate response" to Iranian strikes.
Maybe this is why Trump is not that excited and had to take drugs before performing his Iran
speech.
Adding:
This would also explain why this is the first time the US did not respond to a state
attacking US institutions/military bases. The Us, in fact, did respond: "Let this serve as a
WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we have targeted 52 Iranian
sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very
high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran
itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!"
we have (!) targeted (that must mean there were plans for imminent actions in place, it's
not saying "we will target") Iranian sites, some at a very high level (!), very fast (!) and
very hard.
Their response went horribly wrong. Maybe a US drone was found. Maybe the US jammed
communication systems. It's all speculation but it could be that the US response is the cause
for the shooting down of the plane. It is a mystery to me why the airport was not closed down
that night, esp. in view of the FAA warning that specifically addresses Tehran. The Iranian
civil flights authority should have known about this, or is information of this kind
proprietary, i.e. not shared across countries/systems? The FAA is a lead aviation agency,
it's not as if the aviation agency of Tristan da Cunha had issued such a ban.
The FAA banning US aircraft flying over Tehran after Iran had struck the bases - my gut
tells me the US had planned and were executing a response involving a target in Tehran which
resulted in the plane being targeted by Iranian air defense systems... the jamming of
communication systems (which would have been part of the US response) would be the direct
cause for the plane being targeted. If this is true the US has this blood on their hands, not
Iran. Again, that's why Trump was clearly under the influence of some drugs. Because that
blood is on his hands, or rather, his big mouth and big ego.
...
"Let this serve as a WARNING that if Iran strikes any Americans, or American assets, we
have targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many
years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and
those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD."
How would the passenger plane have been accidentally targeted?
That is less clear, but is one of the challenges facing any missile operator. While
military aircraft will plot course to avoid radar, civilian airliners are equipped with
transponders that identify the craft and their flight path set and share it with military
bases in the area.
Theoretically, the Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 should have been identified as a civilian
craft on any radar. But if the Western assessment is true, this incident will join other
tragic incidents of civilian planes being shot down by anti-aircraft weaponry.
In 2014, Malaysia Airline Flight 17 was suspected to have been inadvertently shot down
by Russian missiles, though Moscow has consistently denied any involvement. And in 1988, a
US warship engaging with Iranian gunboats in the Persian Gulf, the USS Vincennes, shot down
an Iranian passenger plane after mistaking it for a jet fighter, killing all 290 people on
board.
They have a nice map of Iran's rocket range. The map explains the Russian attitude towards
Iran which is complex. Iran's rockets do NOT reach the USA but they reach the whole of the
Middle East and a large part of Russia.
To all the smart asses:Yes Iran should have closed the airport but other have some
responsibility too. The Ukraine for example. Allowing planes to fly in to what is practically
a war zone. Not that thei have done it before..
The aircraft was hit when it had turned directly towards the Tor unit, at that point a
turn of nearly ninety degrees which I take it was located at the military site.
"Iranian air defense units have taken inappropriate actions dozens of times, including
firing antiaircraft artillery and scrambling aircraft against unidentified or misidentified
targets," noted a heavily classified Pentagon intelligence report, which added that the
Iranian military's communications were so inadequate and its training deficiencies so
significant that "misidentification of aircraft will continue."
The Ukraine plane was the target and the operation was successfull.
this was the only way US could strike Iran without Iran striking US bases throughout the
regin plus Israel.
When Trump threatened strikes against 52 cultural sites if Iran retaliated for the killing of
Soleimani, Iran said Isreal would also be hit (it has been noticeable US and Isreal have
beeing trying pass of US as threatening Iran as indipendent of Isreal).
This is when the Trump admin and Israel would have settled on the takedown of a civian
craftby Iran air defence. This makes Iran look fools in the eyes of fools as has occurred
here and not the highly professional force they truly are.
Iranians have gathered in the streets of Tehran to demand the resignation of Ayatollah
Seyed Ali Khamenei after the regime admitted it had mistakenly shot down a civilian
passenger plane.
Angry crowds gathered on Saturday night in at least four locations in Tehran, chanting
'death to liars' and calling for the country's supreme leader to step down over the tragic
military blunder, video from the scene shows.
What began as mournful vigils for Iranian lives lost on the flight soon turned to
outrage and protest against the regime, and riot police quickly cracked down, firing tear
gas into the crowd.
'Death to the Islamic Republic' protesters chanted, as the regime's security forces
allegedly used ambulances to sneak heavily armed paramilitary police into the middle of
crowds to disperse the demonstration.
I don't blame the Iranians protesting the unnecessary deaths of their compatriots through
sheer incompetence and lack of coordination among civil and military officials. They clearly
should have grounded all commercial flights. Their air defense units should have at least the
basic ability to discern between a commercial jet and military aircraft & missiles. If
they are this incompetent or their systems are so poor how do they expect to withstand the
onslaught of an air attack by the US that would include thousands of missiles and thousands
of sorties a day! Tehran will be flattened.
We agree that there was a US response, and that the plane was involved in this response.
You think it was the idea from the beginning to trick Iranian air defense into shooting this
particular plane down, I think there was a different target and things did not go according
to plan, while the plane played a role. Both of us are speculating. You think the operation
was successful, I say no, things went wrong. The US could not continue with their operation
as this would have made it obvious they had utilized the plane in some way. It's different
from the incident where Syria shot down a Russian military plane when Israeli jets used it as
cover - this here was a civilian plane. So, speculation from my side.
It's also to be observed that 146 people on the plane were Iranian citizens; this could
speak for your theory as this is a problem for the government of Iran (protests)
("One-hundred forty-six victims held Iranian passport, ten Afghan, five Canadian, four Swede
and two Ukrainian. All nine crew members consisting of three cockpit crew and six cabin crew
were Ukrainian. Note: A number of victims could have had multiple nationalities, so other
news reports might introduce them with different nationalities than the ones in this report.
The above list concerns the passport with which they left the Islamic Republic of Iran air
border.")
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Iran-CAO-PS752-Initial-Report.pdf
I have no means to know. I am sure, though, that the big mouthed announcement of Trump is
real. There was a response. I hope the dams won't hold for this one.
Various MSM have stories of victims. The British and Canadian victims I saw in these
articles all had Iranian names. Students expats ect returning to Iran for a visit.
One couple to get married in Iran.
Seemed to be a large number of university students including a couple of professors.
Regarding the FAA NOTAMS restricting airspace a list is provided
here . It is not accurate to claim only Tehran was restricted:
KICZ A0001/20 - SECURITY..UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FLIGHT PROHIBITION AGAINST CERTAIN
FLIGHTS IN THE BAGHDAD FLIGHT INFORMATON REGION (FIR)
(ORBB) - 07 JAN 23:45 2020 UNTIL PERM. CREATED: 07 JAN 23:49 2020
KICZ A0002/20 - SECURITY..UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FLIGHT PROHIBITION AGAINST CERTAIN
FLIGHTS IN THE TEHRAN FLIGHT INFORMATON REGION (FIR) (OIIX) - 08 JAN 00:10 2020 UNTIL PERM.
CREATED: 08 JAN 00:07 2020
Notice these cover national airspace, it is not limited to the cities they refer to. The
timezones are UTC.
Well Israel and neocons sure have a good laugh how well it turned out for them past week. Not
sure how Iran will be able to get back from this anytime soon, now being attacked both from
abroad and internally. Not to mention the collaboration between protesters and the west.
This site and its comments have been an unfortunate repository of ridiculous, reflexive
anti-American nonsense over the past few weeks. The speculation about the flight, and
inability to accept Iranian responsibility, was one of the more silly charades.
Posted by: Daniel Lennon | Jan 11 2020 16:46 utc | 185
I would add anti-Semitic too....
In my own country can't criticise Mossad actions on the news.. it would be anti-Semitic
too...
So here what came from a Forbes article that helped uncover a huge Mossad Operation
targeting Cyprus Larnaka airport (their Cypriot allies)
The 2 "ex" agents identified is only probably the tip of the proverbial iceberg...
9.5 million smart phones it is estimated were hacked by the Mossad Stingray like tech
discuised as plain ambulances alone in Larnaka air port during the time of the operation.
This is looking to be a very complex operation the US and five eyes is pulling off. Rather
than simply reacting to events after the killing of Soleimani, the killing was inteded to set
up circumstances to induce Iran into firing at a civilian aircraft. The act of war in killing
the Iranian military official and diplomat followed by threats against Iranian cultural
sites. With Iran air dfences on high alert, all it required was to cut air defence coms and
turn an aircraft at the same time. Once that is aclomplashed, making Iran look incompetent in
the eyes of the world it is straight into the pre-organised regime change operation.
I hope Russia and China will be giving Iran a bit of an assist in this because they are
facing a very dangerous moment. Anything can happen now that US thinks it has Iran on the
backfoot. And I think Iran is on the backfoot at the moment. What has happened has shocked
them. Zarif and others, saying the plane definitely was not shot down and then realising they
were wrong.
Very dangerous period for Iran as US will now press its attack harder, and perhaps in more
unexpected ways. Hopefully the crew that fired will not be punished because of this. If they
are, air defense crew will be hesitant to make decisions anytime their coms are cut.
The IRGC said they had asked for all flights to be grounded but the request was not acted on.
This is the area hopefully the Iranian investigation will focus on.
VK "Right after the assassination of Soleimani, Pompeo went publicly and said Iran was "one
step closer to regime change""
The Assassination was the first step. Trump threats against Iran cultural sites the second
step. Iran retaliation against the US bases the third step. Downing the civilian aircraft
step four. And guess what... regime change operation kicks into gear.
But for Trump's murder of Soleimani, the Iranians would not have been so jumpy.
Trump's murder of Soleimani, was a significant factor in making the Iranians jumpy.
These deaths go on Trump's death count card along with all the dead in Syria.
So they warned Americans about incoming missile strikes, but did not cancel passenger
flights... "As Iran has already notified the Swiss embassy prior to attack on American bases,
it is curious why Iran did not close its airspace and ground flights following the
attack."
Still it does seems an extraordinary lack of common sense that commercial civilian flights
were allowed to fly around under conditions of such high tension in the country. Also night
take-offs. Better to wait until morning . . .
Notable quotes:
"... To let the civilians planes to flight while expecting they could have an US retaliation is a big mistake, because, as the Israeli did in the shooting-down of the IL-20 in Syria, the US plane could choose to be "radar-shadowed" by the civilians planes and use the civilians planes as shields before bomb the Iranian targets ..."
"... They should have grounded all commercial flights. Really, Really dumb on Iran's part. And I see the saker has been mum on the whole affair. ..."
"... It definitely shoots some holes in his propping up of the Iranian military/government to show how ready and focused they are for an American invasion. ..."
"... Why did the US keep info under wraps in the intelligence briefing to members U.S. Congress ... afterwards they specifically said there was. NO intelligence Ukraine airliner was shot down ... lots to learn for all. Not following the Putin playbook. Or other cover-ups like NATO downing an Italian passenger jet near Ithaca. Ukraine themselves have accidentally shot down a Siberian airliner by exercises above the Black Sea. ..."
"... Pretty hard to believe an accident this stupid. Sorry. ..."
The Iranian Armed Forces General Staff just
admitted (in Farsi,
English translation ) that its air defenses inadvertently shot down the Ukrainian
flight PS 752 shortly after it took off on January 8 in Tehran :
2- In early hours after the missile attack [on US' Ain al-Assad base in Iraq], the
military flights of the US' terrorist forces had increased around the country. The
Iranian defence units received news of witnessing flying targets moving towards Iran's
strategic centres, and then several targets were observed in some [Iranian] radars, which
incited further sensitivity at the Air Defence units.
3- Under such sensitive and critical circumstances, the Ukrainian airline's Flight
PS752 took off from Imam Khomeini Airport, and when turning around, it approached a
sensitive military site of the IRGC, taking the shape and altitude of a hostile target.
In such conditions, due to human error and in an unintentional move, the airplane was hit
[by the Air Defence], which caused the martyrdom of a number of our compatriots and the
deaths of several foreign nationals.
4- The General Staff of the Armed Forces offers condolences and expresses sympathy
with the bereaved families of the Iranian and foreign victims, and apologizes for the
human error. It also gives full assurances that it will make major revision in the
operational procedures of its armed forces in order to make impossible the recurrence of
such errors. It will also immediately hand over the culprits to the Judicial Organization
of the Armed Forces for prosecution.
To let the civilians planes to flight while expecting they could have an US
retaliation is a big mistake, because, as the Israeli did in the shooting-down of the IL-20
in Syria, the US plane could choose to be "radar-shadowed" by the civilians planes and use
the civilians planes as shields before bomb the Iranian targets
At the very least, it does show us that anxieties were running very high that
evening/early morning with no "in-the-know" arrangement for how the deescalation was going
to pan out.
They should have grounded all commercial flights. Really, Really dumb on Iran's
part. And I see the saker has been mum on the whole affair.
It definitely shoots some holes in his propping up of the Iranian
military/government to show how ready and focused they are for an American
invasion.
Sadly due to their own incompetence, Iran lost there moral high ground!
A great disappointment to those of us who supported Iran through thick and thin.
So much for engine malfunction. fives eyes said it was a missile so I thought it would have
been their proxies like Ukraine, but not the case this time. Downing the drone firing only
one missile, precision strikes on the US base... shit happens especially when the US and
five eyes are involved and creating the fog of war. Hope it doesn't make the Iranians
hesitate when they next need to fire one.
Yes, why didn't Iran ground all commercial flights while there was hostilities and the
potential for reprisal missile and air attacks? Their air defenses can't be that good if
they can't distinguish between a commercial jet and a military jet.
Indeed does not bode well in the event of war with the US which would destroy much of
Iran.
For the trolls currently infesting this site - Iraq, a relatively small country when it
comes to superpowers has been successfully fending off the US for fourty years. Fourty
years when they could be attacked by the US at any time. They have developed their own air
defences plus high tech missiles that accurately hit a US base within an Iraqi base. Trump
is intent on destroying Iran. The US regime wouldn't hesitate to use a civilian plane to
try and penetrate Iran's defences. US is as culpable of this downing as was the crew of the
US ship that far from home and on Iran's doorstep downed the Iranian passenger jet.
Well. Looks like Iran will have to lay low for awhile or at least until the US starts the
war for real. Not necessarily a bad thing?
At least the victims families get some closure. Iran should propose that some of their
frozen assets be released to pay restitution.
The downing of the plane probably helped avoid an American retaliation for the missile
strikes.
Iran cleared up the crash site where the passenger jet came down and before admitting its
responsibility on Friday, said it wanted to handle the black box data itself.
The debris of the Boeing 737 has been removed from the crash site near Tehran
before Ukrainian investigators have even arrived , sparking fears of a cover-up.
It was a dead giveaway yesterday when Iran started clearing the debris from the crash
site before any independent investigators arrived. When you add that to video that showed
the Ukranian airliner exploding in the air, it would have indicated a decent probability
that Iran was hiding something. But....most everyone in the earlier threads on the downing
of the jet were finding all kinds of excuses why it couldn't have been an Iranian air
defense missile.
Yes this is a horrible tragedy and I wish Iran had grounded all flights until they were
certain all was clear. But in real life accidents and mistakes happen, sometimes very
tragic and costly.
But all this talk of Iranian 'incompetence' and 'loss of moral high ground' is utter
nonesense.
Iran handled this tragic mistake about as well as anyone could. Indeed far better than
many others have. Especially when you consider that they knew that their enemies would use
everything in an inform8war against them. Given the circumstances, Iran handled the
aftermath as well as possible. 'Why did it take Iran so long to admit it?' Well, 'so long'
is 3 days. And even before that, they invited experts from Boeing and even the NTSB to help
with the investinvestigation.
And now those who wished to use this incident against Iran are stuck. What can they say?
The US making a fuss about it will only offer an opportunity to remind everyone of IA655.
Iran has already admitted it and apologized. Not much more to use.
And none of this changes the fact that Iran is the only country to openly retaliate
against the US military and have the US back down.
The following link has interesting info about some of the people killed in the Ukrainian
flight PS 752. Originally, I wasn't going to mention this article because in it it said
"...A crash which US authorities are now saying was caused by Iran's own missile defence
systems. An explanation which Iran seems to be accepting for the moment. ..." but as that
seems to be the case. This tragic shootdown will make Russia cautious in supplying Iran
with missiles.
My Ship was headed to the Gulf on the Monday after the Friday Vincennes Incident.
I was in my Homeport in Japan that Evening. Spent Supper and Watched Music Videos at the
Officers' Club. As I got off my Bike at the Pier - an Associate told me that We shot down
an Iranian F-14.
We already had Skirmishes the Previous Summer with the USS Stark, which Kicked Off the
Naval Convoys of Operation Earnest Will.
We know that the IRNians were harassing the Vincennes with their Gunboats. The Vincennes
were told to leave the Area several times afterwards; but Disobeyed - Seeking to Destroy.
The Air Warfare Team were hell bent on the Hunt, they Deluded Themselves to believe that a
Hostile Aircraft was approaching. With no Comms/Responses and no one checking Commercial
Flight Paths, they Shot Down the Airliner.
I confirmed this with the Officer leading the Anti Surface Team on the Vincennes that
Day - when I met him during an MBA Prospective Tour at Harvard years later.
Human Error - Rushed Judgement. Now we need to see if the Aircraft did Deviate from the
Path / Warnings+Comms were ongoing - and to see if it wasn't a Cover for Intel Photo Ops
over the Base.
The United States KNEW about the tragic event from the moment it happened. Military
satellites in the sky can make sharper photo's than reporters on the ground of the crash
site. The intelligence was shared with 5 Eyes plus ... incl. at least Israel and The
Netherlands (PM Mark Rutte if MH-17 fame).
Why did the US keep info under wraps in the intelligence briefing to members U.S.
Congress ... afterwards they specifically said there was. NO intelligence Ukraine airliner
was shot down ... lots to learn for all. Not following the Putin playbook. Or other
cover-ups like NATO downing an Italian passenger jet near Ithaca. Ukraine themselves have
accidentally shot down a Siberian airliner by exercises above the Black Sea.
Pretty hard to believe an accident this stupid. Sorry.
Could an Iranian have been turned by foreign agents to shoot down a passenger airliner,
and then claim it was an accident?
Or could Iran have been enticed to make a false admission to protect Boeings reputation
and/or the Ukraine airlines reputation. Perhaps a carrot of lesser severity in the new
sanctions?
There is no way to know really. I suppose its simplest to just take Irans admission as
truth. If US fighters were flying over Irans airspace I suppose thats an adequate
defense.
Still, its hard to see it. I mean if that was the case and enemy aircraft were intruding
over Irans airspace local civilian planes wouldn't have been cleared to take off by ATC
because there is no way to guarantee the flight path is clear. They just wouldn't. And if
they did Iran has just basically admitted how incompetent they are. I mean they knew what
was coming since they launched the missiles into Iraq. They had to have a plan on if there
was a retaliatory response They had to be tracking any incoming flights very carefully as
potential targets. A flight taking off from Tehran cant possibly be confused as an attacker
unless their air defense system and training of operators is FUBAR
I'm going back and watch Fake Wrestling. Its more believable
somebody
five eyes will come at you covered in any type of sheep clothing. Australian aid to east
timor, UK's white helmets, plenty of stories of CIA inserting itself into aid agencies.
Operation northwoods was one scheme put forward but not carried out. Sounds like the
Ukraine plane may have made a sudden turn to head back to the airport but towards a
protected site without allowing time for air defences to be notified.
There may be more to this story when flight records are retrieved.
According to the commander of the Aerospace Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard
Corps, Amir Ali Hajizadeh, Iranian air defence systems mistook the Boeing 737 for a
cruise missile. The plane was shot down with a short-range projectile, he added.
Sounds very much like the situation with the Russian Il-20 that was brought down in Syria
last year. Was someone trying to use the Ukrainian jet as a cover to attack the IRGC site?
Hostile planes in the area.
Flight 752 making an approach "positioning itself at the altitude and form of a hostile
flight".
Maybe some experts will explain how common is it for an airliner to have an altitude and
trajectory consistent with a hostile flight (of an attacking missile).
Apparently the plane first took on extra fuel because it was overloaded and then
offloaded cargo because then it was even more overloaded. This seems illogical. What is the
standard practice in these cases?
And then there was someone who was there early in the morning ready to take video of the
flight.
And we had pictures of the missile fragment very soon after the crash. Someone knew what
to look for and searched for it.
Remote controlled hijacking???
Many questions-few answers.
Perhaps the solution is to have a S-300 or S-400 system put in place just like Putin did
after the IL-20 shootdown.
Quote from Farsnews
***
"Following threats by the criminal US president and military commanders to strike a large
number of targets on the Islamic Republic of Iran's territory in case of an Iranian attack
and due to the unprecedented aerial movements in the region, the Islamic Republic of Iran's
Armed Forces were on highest levels of alert to respond to any possible threats," the
statement said.
"In the early hours after the missile attack, military flights of the US terrorist
forces increased around the country and defense units received some reports about flying
objects that were moving towards the country's strategic centers as several targets
appeared on radar screens which made the air defense units more sensitive," it added.
"Under such sensitive and critical circumstances, flight number 752 of the Ukrainian
airline company left Imam Khomeini airport and then approached a sensitive military center
after a turn, positioning itselt at the altitude and form of a hostile flight and was hit
because of a human error and unintentionally under such conditions, and as a result a
number of our country men and women and some foreign citizens lost their lives," it
added.
****
My first thought on seeing the news that the Iranian military had admitted to shooting
down UIA Flight PS752 was similar to yours.
By making this admission, the Iranians nip in the bud any conspiracy theories and
narratives that their enemies might try to weave and convince the public around the world
(and especially diaspora Iranians) insinuating their guilt, whether actual or not, in the
plane crash.
Supposing the Iranians did deliberately shoot down the plane, there may be a reason why
they decided to say it was an accident: such an admission not only absolves them from
accusations of cold-bloodedness which might cost them the trust of their neighbours (and
others beyond their neighbourhood) but also relieves them of having to explain the real
reason for shooting down the plane - because that reason may very well be something
involving Ukraine in a regime-change activity or operation against Iran or one of its
allies.
Chechens are known to be in Ukraine, and to be fighting for and against Kiev. What other
groups not normally resident in Ukraine might have arrived there in the years since
Yanukovych's ousting as President in February 2014, being trained as fighters to fight in
other lands that have committed the unholy sin of defying the United States and the masters
Washington DC serves?
What the Iranians have done in admitting culpability is sure to displease a lot of
people, not satisfy them. They sure didn't see that one coming.
But shortly before the crash , the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration announced
an emergency flight restriction for U.S. airlines flying over areas of Iraq and Iran. The
FAA warned of the " potential for miscalculation or misidentification " of
civilian planes because of increased military tensions in those areas.
Iran will now be taken to the cleaners. The entire IRGC is classified by Washington as a
terrorist organisation so I imagine some US vulture law firm is already looking at taking
action in American courts against Iran in the full expectation that each victim's estate
will be awarded billions of dollars compensation and the US law firm will earn billions in
fees. Iran should get ahead of this game and make offers of substantial compensation (far
more than the legal minimum) to the families of all the victims.
"Russian anti-aircraft missile "Tor" hit the liner in the lower part of the front of the
fuselage, directly under the cockpit.
A direct hit and the cabin flared up inside. Instantly turned off the transponder of the
aircraft, which gives signals about the flight. Instantly lost contact.
While there is no data, one or two missiles have caused such damage. It is possible that
the second missile also hit the fuselage from below close to the first. But all this
remains to be clarified."
If this is the case, it is doubtful the pilots and perhaps the cockpit controls would
have been in any condition to turn the aircraft after the first hit.
This is one good reason to make certain Iran does not get nuclear weapons.
Russia and China absolutely are working to keep Iran from getting nukes. And those are
Iran's closest "allies", who are risking sanctions to help Iran survive the maximum
pressure hybrid war.
Time to get real about Iran.
The regime should have let the Russians sell them the S-400, and let the Russians build
an integrated defense system with communications for all units. It might have prevented
such a tragedy. But the regime is full of pride and wants its weapons to be built by Iran.
Thus, tragedy has befallen Iran. Needlessly.
They need to come up with a diplomatic, negotiating strategy (like listen to Putin) and
change the present terms of engagement. The US will crush them economically otherwise.
Trump doesn't have to fire a shot. Iran is stumbling backward, not just on a back foot.
Your post merely adds to the feeling something very very odd has gone on here, as the
resonances with the MH17 atrocity are uncanny. If the Ukrainian army had come out and
admitted, in only two days, that their unit from Lviv had accidentally hit MH17 instead of
the plane Putin was allegedly travelling in over the same area, then things may have been
very different. But of course they didn't, and didn't need to, as fighter jets had done the
job for them anyway. On the other hand, had the Separatists trying to defend the population
from Kiev's air campaign from fighter jets and military transports accidentally hit MH17 they
would have been the first to admit it. Those claiming they were responsible, before Higgins
concocted his silly story, admitted that it would have been a "tragic accident" – as
Morrison has described this latest crash – but soon started blaming them. Talk of Kiev
being partly responsible for allowing MH17 to fly, off course, over an active war zone, also
went unheard.
But of course the two events are not the same, and not connected, or are they?
Did the Ukrainian plane have its transponder turned on? Was it the first plane to leave
Tehran following the Iranian missile volleys? Would a cruise missile have been launched from
Afghanistan towards the firing site in Kermanshah, passing over Tehran? What went on in the
control tower of Imam Khomeini airport?
Nothing is clear yet, except "cui bono".
Earlier today, President Rouhanie of Iran formally admitted that the Iranian Revolutionary
Guard Corps had shot down the Ukrainian passenger jet leaving Tehran a few days ago.
Speculation has been rampant, but here are the alleged facts of the case, at this
time:
In the early hours of the 8th January, Iran launched missiles at two US-occupied bases
in Iraq. This was done in retaliation for the death of General Qassem Soleimani. Ukraine
Airlines flight PS 752 departed Tehran airport on 8th January. Three minutes later it crashed.
There were 176 passengers/crew on board. Mostly Iranians, Ukrainians and Canadians. Within
hours, Western media were quoting anonymous "Iraqi
intelligence officials" that Iran had shot the plane down "likely by accident". The US
State Dept, and their proxy NGOs, echoed this theory. A great rundown of who said what and when
can be found on
Moon of Alabama . Despite at first denying these accusations, the Iranian government
has since admitted to "accidentally" downing the plane. Their statement can be read here
(or
here in the original Farsi). Iran claim the missiles were launched by an individual who was
out of radio contact with his commander and "panicked" upon seeing the fast-moving object on
radar. Response to the admission has come from many world leaders. Justin Trudeau called for
"further investigation", Vladimir Zelensky demanded Iran take "full responsibility", whilst
Boris Johnson called it "an important first step". The US has already announced further
sanctions. Reports are already coming in of "unrest" and "protests" in the wake of this
admission.
The Guardian and Newsweek, among others, claiming young people especially are tired of
the leadership demanding "resignations and prosecutions" (we are, as yet unable to confirm
these protests took place).
So what does this mean for the region as a whole?
Will this – as Boris Johnson said – be "first step to de-escalation" in the
region? Will there be extensive protests? Will Iraq now rescind their demand the US leave their
country?
As always, discuss below.
Protect ,
Sabotage can take many shapes and forms. Remember when the Syrian army was fooled into
shooting down a Russian surveillance aircraft with 15 people onboard?
Those imposing punitive santions and continually threatening a desstructive war must
definitely be held responsible for the extreme conditions they have created.
Charlotte Russe ,
The conditional word "if" often is used to begin describing the most horrific events. If they
hadn't been driving the night the other car careened into their lane; if they didn't go into
that store shortly before the robbery; if they didn't go sailing during an awful storm; if
Trump didn't order the assassination of General Soleimani 176 innocent civilians would still
be alive; and if all imperialist wars would stop collateral murder would also end.
An Iranian Officer mistook the plane for a hostile missile and made the "bad decision" to
open fire. He said he "wished" he "was dead" when he learned about the downing of the
aircraft. There were 82 Iranians aboard the Boeing Jet.
Most on the plane were graduate students from Canada. I was not aware that Canada is home
to a large Iranian diaspora, with some 210,000 citizens of Iranian descent.
"The country is also a popular destination for Iranian graduate and postdoctoral students
to study and conduct research abroad, which is why many students were on the flight,
returning to university following the winter break.
There is also no direct flight between Canada and Iran, and the Ukraine International
Airlines flight from Tehran to Kiev and then to Toronto is popular because it is one of the
most affordable options for the journey."
Not mentioned before – and it is another reason why I still consider that the incident
is not just human error but sabotage: In 6 months embargo on weapon sales to Iran will expire
and the country will be able to buy S-400, Iskanders or fighter jets. Quite good reason to
awake sleeping agent
Philpot ,
Are the Integrity Initiative hard at work on here?
David Macilwain ,
Your post merely adds to the feeling something very very odd has gone on here, as the
resonances with the MH17 atrocity are uncanny. If the Ukrainian army had come out and
admitted, in only two days, that their unit from Lviv had accidentally hit MH17 instead of
the plane Putin was allegedly travelling in over the same area, then things may have been
very different. But of course they didn't, and didn't need to, as fighter jets had done the
job for them anyway. On the other hand, had the Separatists trying to defend the population
from Kiev's air campaign from fighter jets and military transports accidentally hit MH17 they
would have been the first to admit it. Those claiming they were responsible, before Higgins
concocted his silly story, admitted that it would have been a "tragic accident" – as
Morrison has described this latest crash – but soon started blaming them. Talk of Kiev
being partly responsible for allowing MH17 to fly, off course, over an active war zone, also
went unheard.
But of course the two events are not the same, and not connected, or are they?
Did the Ukrainian plane have its transponder turned on? Was it the first plane to leave
Tehran following the Iranian missile volleys? Would a cruise missile have been launched from
Afghanistan towards the firing site in Kermanshah, passing over Tehran? What went on in the
control tower of Imam Khomeini airport?
Nothing is clear yet, except "cui bono".
Dimly Glimpsed ,
Matt,
Have you considered the arguments and evidence which show the BUK missile in the MH17 case
came from the Ukranian government-controlled battery?
Also, from what I can recall, the Americans and NATO countries routinely lie about
everything. Mike Pompeo, the American Secretary of State, for example, in a April, 2019
speech at Texas A&M, made the following statement about the CIA:
"I was the CIA Director – We Lied, We Cheated, We stole".
Trump lies so routinely that lying is now becoming normalized in American society.
The "Allies" appear to be lying not only about MH17, but also about the Skripal case, the
charges (backed up by lies by the U.N. agency OPCW) that Assad used sarin and/or chlorine in
Douma, that Huawei technology is insecure because there are hidden back doors (true of Cisco
with CIA back doors, but no one can prove any exist in Huawei), etc.
Perhaps you recall that the "Allies" launched a war of aggression against Iraq, based on
the false charge that Saddam had nuclear weapons, and backed up by a sloppy and juvenile
"sexed up dossier" that Tony Blair's government used as justification, and lies such as the
daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassdor claiming that Saddam's soldiers threw babies out of
incubators.
Perhaps you recall that the USA used illegal chemical weapons such as white phosphorus in
its extermination of the civilian city Fallujah during the American attack on Iraq. Perhaps
you are aware that the "Allies" hide and deny Israel's proven use of white phosphorus on the
captive Palestinian population, along with using the Palestinians as human shields and
killing unarmed Palestinian women and children targeted intentionally by snipers.
If your interest is an objective view of matters, the hopefully you'll consider the track
records of the players involved. Iran has invaded no other country in hundreds of years. The
US is the world champion of invading other countries, and Britain and France have disgraceful
histories of colonization and genocidal crimes against native peoples, as does America and
other members of the "Allies", including Australia and Canada.
I could go on, and on, and on. The "Allies" are much more guilty of killing and lies than
Iran.
As you may know, the CIA has assassinated a number of country leaders, including several
in South America, by bombing planes. Rumor is that is what the CIA had planned for Evo
Morales, which is why he fled to Mexico, knowing the USA and traitors in the Bolivian army
were planning just such an assassination.
I'm also having a bit of difficulty recalling many lies by the Iranians. On the other
hand, from mere recollection alone, I could keep typing for yours adding to a list of lies I
do recall by America and the Europeans, many of which were coverups of bloody insurrections,
assassinations and murders.
Bottom line: I don't trust anything America or the Europeans say. They are biased, have a
track record of lying, and have a history of unclean hands. The Iranians, on the other hand,
have a much better record in all those areas.
Paul ,
It was the same in Iran back in 1953 with the sudden appearance of angry and armed 'anti a
Communists' protesting the government, winding up the political time bomb. It cost the State
Department a lot of money – although not as much as spent on the Shah! Later these
mercenary protesters, often special forces types seeped in brutality upped the PR with
flowers and colours as symbols. In other places, where they faced serious opposition they
reverted to the dirtiest of tricks involving snipers creating havoc, as in Kiev in 2014.
Something similar seems to be happening in Hong King and Tehran but then did anybody expect
the Empire to roll over?!
As I wrote, it's strangely convenient for the hegemons. Now Trump even tweets in Farsi,
supporting Tehran protest.
I have no doubt that the plane was downed by Iranian missile. But was it an error? It's
not outside of realm of possibilities that it was a sabotage. Mole withing air defense unit
nearby Tehran's civil airport.
Under the current circumstances it's less damaging for Iran to take responsiblity for the
tragedy then admit that the internal security was severely breached and infiltrated by
hostile forces.
Jack_Garbo ,
As has already been stated, the Iranian attacked on two US bases was not the "revenge" for
Soleimani's assassination, but a show of 1. Iranian tactical ability (warned first, no
casualties), 2, the beginning of revenge for Soleimani and others killed by the US presence.
It has only begun.
Don't think like a (short-term) Westerner, but like a long term Easterner. The US will
eventually be driven out, the Iranians will them them good-bye.
Considering the fact how convenient the whole airliner incident is for the hegemons I still
have doubts if it was just human error.
Pompeo tweeting support for Tehran protest which follows today's announcement. British
ambassador arrested amid participation in it. It pseaks loud imo
JudyJ ,
If the footage of the missile striking the plane is genuine, I remain unclear as to why
someone would have been, it would appear, randomly pointing a phone camera at a black night
sky on the outskirts of Tehran at 6.30 in the morning and, by sheer coincidence, caught the
moment of impact. The way the camera was being aligned would suggest the person behind the
camera was anticipating a particular event and was eager to capture it on film. Maybe I'm
being unduly suspicious. Of course we don't know for sure that the footage in question was
indeed genuine.
Mike Leach ,
I don't think there's any such thing as 'unduly suspicious' in the present state of the
world.
Derek ,
Iran claim the missiles were launched by an individual who was out of radio contact with
his commander and "panicked" upon seeing the fast-moving object on radar.
More than one missile was launched so is it not possible that's why the person was
filming?
Loverat ,
One thing I think I mentioned on another thread as cynical as it is, this plane possibly
might have been shot down deliberately by Iran. If you think about it, this event has
distracted and possibly taken the 'sting' out of the main event. And of course if the West
knows the plane was shot down by Iran deliberately it could have been a message not to
retaliate for the air base attack. Iran admitting it accidentally shot down the plane might
take some of the force out of my argument/ possible theory but then again this might be an
effort to take out the 'secondary sting or risk of retaliation. Hope that makes some sense!
Let's face it, there are other states aside from US and UK might create or stage 'events'.
As for demos in Iran, can't really see why this would be a major issue for Iranians, or if so
likely to be significantly talked up by Pompeo and extremist war rags like the Guardian.
But who really knows at this stage?
Martin Usher ,
Actually, it ruined what should have been a perfect response. I honestly thought their air
defenses were more sophisticated than they were, in particular that there was a level of
coordination between individual units and a command and control center that could verify
whether a threat was real or not. We can speculate about whether this event was engineered or
not but as far as I'm concerned its a screwup of the same order as the Vincennes incident.
(The only different being that the Iranians didn't have a news crew taping 'our boys' in
action while they paniced and overreacted.)
Sad as this is I don't think it will happen again. Needless to say we in the US will make
as much political capital about it as we can but then its our job.
Another leak (ukr) from the
Ukrainian side of the investigation gives some hints on how the plane came down (machine
translation):
"We took up the restoration of fragments of the aircraft. It was necessary to determine how
these pieces of metal dumped into a huge pile should be interconnected.
The intrigue remained until late. The fact is that there were no damages on most parts of
the aircraft. There was no explosion and no fire in the engines or on the wings. It is
possible that the plane could fall almost intact. Unlike the remains of the Boeing MN-17,
there were no immediately visible signs of defeat by combat elements on the fuselage and
wings. A lot of damage to the case is the result of a fall. But after laying out all the
fragments of the aircraft, it became obvious that the bottom of the cockpit was missing.
Among the wreckage, fragments of the upper part of the cabin were identified. And then the
find finally took place - at about 22 hours. On a fragment of the cockpit, we found holes in
the damaging elements of the warhead of the rocket, which pierced the skin. We found! For the
first time, direct evidence appeared in this case, which made it possible to prove what
caused the death of the aircraft. For us it was a turning point.
So what we now understand:
Russian anti-aircraft missile "Tor" hit the liner in the lower part of the front of the
fuselage, directly under the cockpit.
A direct hit and the cabin flared up inside. Instantly turned off the transponder of the
aircraft, which gives signals about the flight. Instantly lost contact.
While there is no data, one or two missiles have caused such damage. It is possible that
the second missile also hit the fuselage from below close to the first. But all this remains
to be clarified.
We continue to lay out fragments of the aircraft until the complete collection of all
surviving parts.
We expect that today we will gain access to all objective control data.
In cooperation with Iranian colleagues, we get the impression that those who contact us
sincerely want to help themselves and figure it out, in general, there are no problems. Let's
hope that such a mood and working contacts remain with us now."
"... 5 eye propaganda is vile. Other people's propaganda is not much better. No one sane trusts their government. ..."
"... Why was Zelensky ( Pres. of the Ukraine ) being so reasonable and calm about the whole situation, telling everyone not to jump to conclusions, when his handlers ( zioamerica ) were crying shoot down almost from the beginning. ..."
"... What was the reason for the plane's hour long delay at the airport ? ..."
"... Zelensky is out of the US orbit as his sponsor Kholomojsky seems to have decided that his business interests are with Russia - but apart from that, Zelensky is a Russian speaker, with a Jewish background, and not part of the Western Ukraine Bandera proto-fascists. ..."
"... Don't commercial aircraft have radar identification beacons on them ? ..."
"... As Iran has already notified the Swiss embassy prior to attack on American bases, it is curious why Iran did not close its airspace and ground flights following the attack. ..."
"... It is also wise that Iran accepts the guilt and apologizes. I am sure that they will do more. ..."
"... The IRGC must learn this: modern warfare is not fought with bravery, but with cold-blooded rationality. We're not in ancient warfare anymore: this is industrial warfare, waged with machines which kill humans (and destroy other machines) in a mass scale with maximum efficiency, operated by mathematical calculations at superhuman speeds. This is the era of the nerds, not of the macho men. ..."
"... So, before indoctrinating its soldiers with random religious texts and tales of martyrdom, the IRGC better teach them to fill a fucking log and keep their nerves in place first. And welcome to the 21st Century. ..."
"... According to reports, SIX of these people were NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS. Visiting IRAN. At the same time. on the same plane. What are the chances that it's coincidence? ..."
"... Assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Iranian_nuclear_scientists ..."
"... There is only so much human error can explain. If the missile in the famous video is what caused the crash, note that it was flying EAST. The jamming incident explains a lot. Several outbound civilian flights had taken off in the late afternoon following the same flight pattern, so WHY at that time? Also, why does Trump not want to share the intel, saying people have no right to see it? ..."
"... Lots of idiots here. Be glad they accepted responsibility within a reasonable time frame. This is what happens in a WAR. Who drove the Iranians to this point? They certainly have my respect, unlike those cowboys. ..."
"... Still it does seems an extraordinary lack of common sense that commercial civilian flights were allowed to fly around under conditions of such high tension in the country. Also night take-offs. Better to wait until morning . . . ..."
"... Staying in the domain of facts rather than speculation and having worked on the design of air defence systems, I can add a tidbit of info. TOR system can be in a configuration without a surveillance radar, with only a tracking radar. Then when not integrated into a wide area system with centralised control, the crew of such system cannot track aircraft, they can only detect aircraft. Detecting an approaching aircraft/target, tracking it from the moment of detection and not really knowing where it originated from is probably why the crew had to make a faithful decision in a very short time. ..."
"... General note to self: never fly Boeing and stay away from flights which approach any of the war zones that JUSA regularly creates. ..."
"... On the reported taking advantage by Germany to target Iran as terrorist state and ask for more sanctions, we must recall Germany's responsibility along with the US, Canada and current Ukrainian regime, for the terrorist events which gave place to the nazi coup d´etat in the Ukraine, amongst them, the Maidan Snippers event, but not only, also those enumerated by me in another comment above. ..."
"... Given Pompeo's curriculum, it was probable that the CIA had the wrong conjunctural assessment of Iran. They expected that a "silent majority" would revive the riots of some months ago, leaving the theocracy one step closer to collapse. Unless there was indeed serious consideration about using "tactical" nukes, that's the only rational explanation for Soleimani's murder. ..."
"... Right after the funeral day, Trump quickly sought contact with the Ayatollah to negotiate a scale down. Rumor says he even agreed with a "proportional" retaliation against an American target. And then the Iraqi parliament debacle happened, which put the USA in a very embarassing situation. ..."
"... It would be very optimistic to assume that JUSA would just gloat at this accident and milk it for its maximum propaganda value ..."
"... " An attacker could potentially pivot, Santamarta says, from the in-flight entertainment system to the CIS/MS to send commands to far more sensitive components that control the plane's safety-critical systems, including its engine, brakes, and sensors. Boeing maintains that other security barriers in the 787's network architecture would make that progression impossible." ..."
"... IRGC Aerospace Cmdr.: We were at that time ready for an all-out war with US. We had reports of cruise missiles fired at Iran. It was an individual's error that caused this tragedy. ..."
"... Certainly they were on high alert and it could have been an individual error combined with a system malfunction, the aircraft straying out of its commercial lane or any confluence of events. Something may be lurking beneath the surface. The media jumped on and pushed the story hard and that always leaves me suspicious. The borg was correct and knew what happened immediately and reported it truthfully. An even stranger event. ..."
"... What an epic mistake to not close the airspace. I'm impressed that the IRGC admitted full responsibility and even gave a detailed description of the human error. Adding in the EW jamming and it is easy how this could happen. What a horrible tragedy. ..."
"... "The cyberattacks -- a contingency plan developed over weeks amid escalating tensions -- disabled Iranian computer systems that controlled its rocket and missile launchers, the officials said. Two of the officials said the attacks, which specifically targeted Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps computer system, were provided as options after Iranian forces blew up two oil tankers earlier this month." ..."
Of course they did. But Iranians should have seen that coming. Some people still think
they can continue with this stupidity - like Jerusalem Post on the tit for
tat "Kindergarten" strategy .
What they are doing is "showing capabilities" and testing weapons systems. They had a
"game" of conventional war justified by "not killing anybody". Well they did. Both parties.
Real all out conventional war is impossible without mass casualties on all sides. And all out
unconventional/assymetric war just draws out the misery.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2020 12:21 utc | 119
I was talking about the ability to be sad and apologize. I prefer not to have a religious
authority dictating my private life.
5 eye propaganda is vile. Other people's propaganda is not much better. No one sane
trusts their government.
Sadly, no facts. Perhaps if we had full bios on the passengers we could tally up how many
had done undergrad studies at George Washington University, but spooks usually have fictional
biographies so I am not sure how much help that would be.
Iran didn't cancel flights because they most likely had an agreement with the ZioAmericans
allowing them to attack the US bases, and were told there would be no retaliation..
Don't commercial aircraft have radar identification beacons on them ?
Why was Zelensky ( Pres. of the Ukraine ) being so reasonable and calm about the whole
situation, telling everyone not to jump to conclusions, when his handlers ( zioamerica ) were
crying shoot down almost from the beginning.
What was the reason for the plane's hour long delay at the airport ?
Posted by: Fog of War | Jan 11 2020 13:02 utc | 128
Zelensky is out of the US orbit as his sponsor Kholomojsky seems to have decided that
his business interests are with Russia - but apart from that, Zelensky is a Russian speaker,
with a Jewish background, and not part of the Western Ukraine Bandera proto-fascists.
Don't commercial aircraft have radar identification beacons on them ?
If your system is not compromised and can read it.
The Boeing was hit by a Tor system, related to the BUK of MH17 fame. There were a lot of
flights over Teheran airport at the time. Can anyone find out if the Ukraine Airlines flight
was the only Boeing and is the hack specific to Boeing?
It is sad that the real victims of this escalation so far has been 176 souls that have
nothing to do with this affair. As Iran has already notified the Swiss embassy prior to
attack on American bases, it is curious why Iran did not close its airspace and ground
flights following the attack.
I personally put the blame on USA for its disproportionate
responses in the entire affair as it created the conditions that lead to this horrible
accident, but Iran could have been more careful by considering that human factors can prove
catastrophic under tense circumstances.
It is also wise that Iran accepts the guilt and apologizes. I am sure that they will do
more.
IRGC Aerospace Cmdr.: The officials, including Aviation authorities, who kept denying the
missile hit, are not guilty. They made those remarks based on what they knew . We
are to blame for everything.
Well well - there's always the human factor. As the saying goes: there's no fool-proof
plan. Days of investigative speculation undone by (probably) a small bureaucratic error which
resulted in a lack of communication.
The IRGC must learn this: modern warfare is not fought with bravery, but with cold-blooded
rationality. We're not in ancient warfare anymore: this is industrial warfare, waged with
machines which kill humans (and destroy other machines) in a mass scale with maximum
efficiency, operated by mathematical calculations at superhuman speeds. This is the era of
the nerds, not of the macho men.
So, before indoctrinating its soldiers with random religious texts and tales of martyrdom,
the IRGC better teach them to fill a fucking log and keep their nerves in place first. And
welcome to the 21st Century.
According to reports, SIX of these people were NUCLEAR SCIENTISTS. Visiting IRAN. At
the same time. on the same plane. What are the chances that it's coincidence?
There is only so much human error can explain. If the missile in the famous video is what
caused the crash, note that it was flying EAST. The jamming incident explains a lot. Several
outbound civilian flights had taken off in the late afternoon following the same flight
pattern, so WHY at that time? Also, why does Trump not want to share the intel, saying people
have no right to see it?
The other Boeing took off headed for Hong Kong only seconds before the Ukraine flight.
Looks to be the green flight path that turns back east southeast shortly after takeoff. The
Ukraine flight was the only Boeing that took the northern flight path.
Lots of idiots here. Be glad they accepted responsibility within a reasonable time frame.
This is what happens in a WAR. Who drove the Iranians to this point? They certainly have my
respect, unlike those cowboys.
"Or could Iran have been enticed to make a false admission to protect Boeing's reputation
and/or the Ukraine airline's reputation. Perhaps a carrot of lesser severity in the new
sanctions?"
This doesn't seem to comport with what we know/have been told about how the Iranian govt
and religious leadership works.
Still it does seems an extraordinary lack of common sense that commercial civilian
flights were allowed to fly around under conditions of such high tension in the country. Also
night take-offs. Better to wait until morning . . .
I am so, so saddened to hear of the cause of this terrible incident, and I do blame it on
the USA, which started this provocation of Iraq-Iran.
Staying in the domain of facts rather than speculation and having worked on the design of air
defence systems, I can add a tidbit of info. TOR system can be in a configuration without a
surveillance radar, with only a tracking radar. Then when not integrated into a wide area
system with centralised control, the crew of such system cannot track aircraft, they can only
detect aircraft. Detecting an approaching aircraft/target, tracking it from the moment of
detection and not really knowing where it originated from is probably why the crew had to
make a faithful decision in a very short time.
Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) looks great in theory but has many drawbacks
(relatively easy spoofing) therefore is generally not relied upon, especially not by the
second grade EW countries. I remind everybody how, during 1st Gulf War, US air defence in
Kuwait shot down (at least) one British bomber (killed pilot);returning from a mission in
Iraq. That much for IFF even within first EW grade countries of NATO.
Stand-alone air defence units (not integrated) in a very complex air space environment
(with civilian air traffic in the air, possible drones, cruise missiles, low observability
military planes, etc etc) are a definite recipe for disaster. Trying to avoid the cost of air
traffic disruption (or loss of overflight fees) despite high risk of an even bigger cost
happened in Ukraine already (MH17) and Iran did not learn from it. (It does not matter who
shot down MH17 Ukraine is responsible). Whoever did not close down the civilian air traffic
after shooting missiles at US targets is really responsible for this tragedy, slightly more
than JUSA. But governments never learn because their power protects them from the need to
learn.
General note to self: never fly Boeing and stay away from flights which approach any of
the war zones that JUSA regularly creates.
On the reported taking advantage by Germany to target Iran as terrorist state and ask for
more sanctions, we must recall Germany's responsibility along with the US, Canada and current
Ukrainian regime, for the terrorist events which gave place to the nazi coup d´etat in
the Ukraine, amongst them, the Maidan Snippers event, but not only, also those enumerated by
me in another comment above.
Also we must add Germany's responsibility in the war information which gave place to the
justification of the destruction of former Yugoslavia as a way of getting rid of an European
superpower inclined to the Est which could oppose current German hegemony in Europe, which,
being Germany an Us occupied country, only means US hegemony over Europe.
Go preparing for the "renaissance" of the IV Reich and its evolution, and not only in
hairdos....
Germany, along with UK, is responsible for all the evil has happened in Europe since the
falling of the Spanish Empire. GLADIO and many other operations come to mind.
Thus, better shut up when labelling others as terrorists...
Time to remind the pro-US/Zionist trolls here that, as war criminal GHW Bush was quoted, the
US will never admit it is wrong, let alone trying to fulfill stupid ancient texts for their
sheeple Zionist Jew and right-wing Christian voters and political funders (think Rothschild,
Adelson). The End of Days may not become reality, but a Yinon Plan/AIPAC, Greater Israel is
all too likely a prospect. All because Lord Balfour didn't have the balls to tell Lord
Rothschild to go pound salt, and the US was too stupid to avoid taking up the Zionist cause
after WW2.
The US has SO MUCH more to apologize for, like LIES about WMD's, Syria gas attacks,
Kuwaiti babies thrown from incubators, South American death squads, reaching back beyond
"Remember the Maine".
So the US/ZATO needs to take the hundreds of logs out of their own eye before endlessly
demanding Iran take the sliver from their eye.
The US is run by lying, hypocritical psychopaths, from the Oval Office down through
Congress, to the bowels of the NSA/FBI/CIA/Mossad and the Pentagon.
.
. The greatest irony of it all:
-- That the US almost never compensate the families or counties hit by 'mistakes' or killed
as 'collateral damage'.
-- That the Iran authorities and judicial system make some compensation obligatory.
-- That Iran has been cut off from the means to aquire US dollars or Euro and have been cut
off from all international payment systems: Any compensation would have to be paid in Iranian
reals and used within Iran.
. Good for future tourism by airplane travel to Tehran?
Saying Soleimani was a hero for fighting ISIS is just like saying Hitler was a hero for
fighting Stalin.
The only world player that has been unselfishly good in recent memory is Cuba by sending
its doctors throughout the.world and Venezuela under Chavez sending oil to poor people
including those in the US.
Posted by: CognitiveDissonance | Jan 11 2020 5:25 utc | 15
--------
One can make any classifications of "good, but not unselfishly", "kind of good" and so on,
but this is a pernicious type of whataboutery. Basically, we should find reasons to be
obedient subjects of the Empire, yes, the Empire is not good but almost no one is much
better, so find better deals for seeds for our little garden, focus on that, convince others
not to do anything either.
To understand the Empire, one has to read stories about school bullying. A charismatic kid
accumulates a circle of friends and a victim. The victim is harassed, his/her stuff damaged,
and a creative combination of verbal humiliation, physical humiliations and outright assaults
keeps the circle amused. If anyone defends the chosen victim, the efforts redouble against
that person, so the majority is either actively sycophantic (bravo, Mr. Johnson, bravo, Mr.
Trudeau!) or sullen. But not too sullen (OK job, Madam Merkel, we will punish you only
mildly). That can raise the wrath of the dominant clique too.
It is often the case that the victim is "not perfect". And the removal of the top bully
does not have to change the school into paradise. But doing nothing is a coward option,
however "sensible". It is also stupid, nobody can deliver paradise, but avoiding hell is
totally possible, so why we should be content with hell?
@ Posted by: CognitiveDissonance | Jan 11 2020 5:25 utc | 15
Evidence available strongly indicates Soleimani was indeed extremely popular in Iran.
It is probable the USA expected brand new and stronger anti-government manifestation in
the streets of Tehran after he was murdered. Pompeo claimed right after - in cheerful tone -
that "Iran is nearer regime change after Soleimani's assassination".
Given Pompeo's curriculum, it was probable that the CIA had the wrong conjunctural
assessment of Iran. They expected that a "silent majority" would revive the riots of some
months ago, leaving the theocracy one step closer to collapse. Unless there was indeed
serious consideration about using "tactical" nukes, that's the only rational explanation for
Soleimani's murder.
His hopes of regime change were quickly dashed by the millions who showed up in the
streets of Tehran for his funeral. He was indeed very popular, the official propaganda was
true: Soleimani's reputation really preceeded him.
Right after the funeral day, Trump quickly sought contact with the Ayatollah to
negotiate a scale down. Rumor says he even agreed with a "proportional" retaliation against
an American target. And then the Iraqi parliament debacle happened, which put the USA in a
very embarassing situation.
In the greater scheme of things, this accidental downing of a commercial plane was a very
small price to pay. It's one of those once in a blue moon incidents where the imponderable
overcame what 99.99% of the then available evidence indicated. It doesn't change the morality
of the conflict: the USA still has to get out of Iraq, and Iran's cause (regardless of its
theocratic regime) is still just. Or do you expect a prosperous Iran to rise from an
hypothetic American occupation of the country?
The days of the Marshall Plan are still over. The USA can't nation build anymore - it
simply doesn't have the resources (as it had in 1946).
It would be very optimistic to assume that JUSA would just gloat at this accident and milk
it for its maximum propaganda value . Unfortunately, it is likely that the leading
shitbags of the World will not fail to use the shell shock state of the Iranian air defense
to bomb soon for the benefit of lower losses due to Iranian FUD. I can only hope that the
Iranian air defense will recover it's mental state quickly or the loss of life will be much
much bigger than one plane load. Soleimani was a nasty military character, but his style of
organisational skills is sorely needed for a quick reorganisation of the Iranian air defence
under clear and present danger.
143 "Stand-alone air defence units (not integrated) in a very complex air space environment
(with civilian air traffic in the air, possible drones, cruise missiles, low observability
military planes, etc etc) are a definite recipe for disaster."
From my understanding, all Russian and perhaps previous to that society defense systems
are made to be able to operate as stand alone units incase the network goes down. This
appears to be what happened in Iran Whoever was commanding that unit, with coms down had make
a decision with no input from the wider defense network.
US, five eyes and mossad are very good at covering their tracks at times, but modus
operandi and narrative give them away.
You can always blame the airport for not shutting down the traffic but that is usually easier
to say after the fact. Of course, you could shut down all air traffic across the globe as a
precautionary measure. It is convenient to speculate retrospectively that - after the Iranian
strike in Iraq - Tehran should have shut down its airport ( which it had except for a few
flights).
This is where the theory of Iranian misinformation boomerangs: even if the state media had
shown the Iranian strikes in Iraq on TV, what reason did anyone have to believe it?
Farsnews reported that 80 American soldiers died in those strikes but now the US says that
was not true either. So what reason had anyone to believe anything. This is not comparable to
the crash in Ukraine at all. There the plane was flying above the warzone, here the distance
between Tehran and Iraq was about 800 km. Of course, it would be convenient for the US to
command every airport in Iran to shut down....
"Now, nearly a year later, Santamarta claims that leaked code has led him to something
unprecedented: security flaws in one of the 787 Dreamliner's components, deep in the plane's
multi-tiered network. He suggests that for a hacker, exploiting those bugs could represent
one step in a multistage attack that starts in the plane's in-flight entertainment
system and extends to highly protected, safety-critical systems like flight controls and
sensors."
" An attacker could potentially pivot, Santamarta says, from the in-flight
entertainment system to the CIS/MS to send commands to far more sensitive components that
control the plane's safety-critical systems, including its engine, brakes, and sensors.
Boeing maintains that other security barriers in the 787's network architecture would make
that progression impossible." https://www.wired.com/story/boeing-787-code-leak-security-flaws/
What Boeing is saying here is admitting the plane can be taken over from the ground, or at
least many things disrupted, but their security is that good nobody can break into it. I
believe most Boeing aircraft send automated data back to Boeing (maintenance, faults and so
forth) which may mean Boeing always has an open line into the aircraft. Boeing being part of
US MIC.
Well Peter 153, you are right about the ability to operate stand-alone. But such is a
fall-back tactic, not a to begin with tactic. When comms and the operations centre are
destroyed no civilian aircraft are supposed to remain in the air. I did not read that all
Iranian comms were down. I also did not read a statement that their radars were jammed. BTW,
I have experienced radar and comms jamming by a US aircraft carrier and despite being
targeted at military frequencies, it is disruptive to all civilian comms and civilian
aircraft as well. Therefore, this plane would not have been flying under radio and radar
jamming conditions.
I can only repeat the two obvious root causes: you expect a military retaliation but do
not close down civilian air traffic and you scatter your air defense units unconnected to a
centre (which essentially leaves considerable destructive power in the hands of below average
brains connected to twitchy fingers at least somewhere in such scatter - imagine the
statistical risk level).
Never assume that this could never happen in your country. Only countries without
governments are safe. The only difference is whether the government admits or not, TWA800
anyone?
I can sit at home with my laptop and monitor almost all commercial air traffic in my area
with an antenna, ABS software, and a RTL SDR donegal. It is not that difficult and the
internet is not needed as long as the aircraft withing withing range of the antenna. They
transmit in 1.090 gigahertz. RTL-SDR Tutorial: Cheap ADS-B
Aircraft RADAR
IRGC Aerospace Cmdr.: We were at that time ready for an all-out war with US. We had
reports of cruise missiles fired at Iran. It was an individual's error that caused this
tragedy.
Certainly they were on high alert and it could have been an individual error combined
with a system malfunction, the aircraft straying out of its commercial lane or any confluence
of events. Something may be lurking beneath the surface. The media jumped on and pushed the
story hard and that always leaves me suspicious. The borg was correct and knew what happened
immediately and reported it truthfully. An even stranger event.
To add....I tried hard to change my connection to Moscow, but no way, just imagine what my
mood was on travelling by Kiev connection on a flag airline of a now nazi state being myself
a real left, pro-Russian activist...
While in the long queue to check in and baggage dropp in, I dedicated myself to, out of
curiosity, observe my Ukrainian flight companions, and must say they all seemed to me, by
their face´s expression, peaceful and patient stance, innocent people totally
misdirected by a bunch of oligarchic and foreign interests, mainly residing in North
America...
One would say they mostly seemed and innocent crowd who then provided a quite peaceful
flight and connection, i must adit also quite effectiveness by the Kiev airport personel
related to timely departure and baggage organization...
On harsh contrast, I suffered a quite disturbing incident protagonized by some Iranians
coming from the US in a flight to Teheran....I had been the first to place my handbaggage in
the compartment up my sit, when some US diaspora Iranian women( clearly way over-empoverished
by the US life style even for an European like me.. ) arrived, dropped my baggage out the
compartiment so as to place theirs, leaving mine on the floor, without leaving any place left
for it in the compartment, which obly me to put it further from I was sat, something I
usually try to avoid as long as possible by sometimes standing up in the line to boarding
while others remain sat. I complained in English ( which they clearly understood...) adding
Spanish temperament, to no avail, such was their stuborness to prevail...
Then, during the flight, they kept talking to me as if nothing unpolite had happened,
including the one sat by my side....I got to the conclusion that they had been obviously
brutalized by living in the US, since the attittude of Iranians in Iran during all my travel
was astonishingly polite and hospitable....
"Russia has signed a contract to supply Iran with sophisticated S-300 surface-to-air
missiles. The contract got the go-ahead after international sanctions on Iran were lifted
earlier this year, following a deal over its nuclear programme. Israel, the US and Saudi
Arabia are all opposed to the missile contract. Russian officials say the first batch could
be delivered 18 months after Iran has specified the S-300 type that it wants. Technical talks
are continuing.
"The deal to supply the S-300 to Iran has not only been signed between the parties but it
has already come into force," said Sergei Chemezov, head of Russia's Rostec arms firm,
speaking at the Dubai Airshow-2015.
The $800m (£545m) contract, signed in 2007, was frozen by Russia in 2010 because of
the international sanctions. President Vladimir Putin unfroze it in April.
Israel and the US fear the missiles could be used to protect Iranian nuclear sites from
air strikes. The missiles can shoot down jets and other missiles hundreds of kilometres away.
The S-300 can be used against multiple targets including jets, or to shoot down other
missiles.
The S-300B4 variant - delivered to the Russian armed forces last year - can shoot down any
medium-range missile in the world today, flies at five times the speed of sound and has a
range of 400km (248 miles), Tass reports."
When the Russian deal was suspended Iran filed a lawsuit seeking billions of dollars in
damages. Mr Chemezov said Saudi Arabia had asked Rostec repeatedly not to supply the S-300 to
Iran. But he insisted that it was a defensive weapon. "So if the Gulf countries are not going
to attack Iran... why should they be threatened? Because this is defence equipment," Reuters
news agency quoted him as saying."
Minister of defence of the Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI) Hossein Dehgan said: "We produce
a system to ensure air safety at three levels. Available high-range deficiencies we made up
for the purchase of s-300, we do not have any need to purchase other systems", -- quotes
Agency Tasnim statement Dehgan.
The Iranian defense Minister Dehgan said that "Iran has the necessary defensive system
that is able to ensure aerospace security of the country".
In the past year, 2019, Russia indicated it would offer to sell the S-400. "We are open for
discussions on delivering S-400 Triumph air defense systems, including to Iran. Especially
given that this equipment is not subject to restrictions outlined in UN Security Council's
resolution issued on June 20, 2015," a representative of the press service of the Russian
Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation told Sputnik on Friday."
Iran's own Presstv.com reported. https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2019/06/28/599649/Russia-Iran-S400
Thanks b for the update and the excellent coverage.
What an epic mistake to not close the airspace. I'm impressed that the IRGC admitted
full responsibility and even gave a detailed description of the human error. Adding in the EW
jamming and it is easy how this could happen. What a horrible tragedy.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 11 2020 12:07 utc | 114
Yes, this was my first guess as well. Who was actually on that plane. Ukraine is
CIA/Mossad territory, but the Russians may have ways to find out who are on a flight to Kiev,
and they may choose to pass that information on. Then again, it might just be a mistake as
admitted.
I am very surprised by this admission. Are the Iranians just closing the door on this
Passenger jet and shifting the focus of conversation? Was there an actual mistake made by
their Air Defense?
Having apologized for an event that occurred under the Fog of War Iran will definitely get
credit from most Westerners as our governments never apologize. Why would a vicious
psychopath apologize? We are all Palestinians' to our governments in the 'Free West'?
I don't believe this admission changes the dynamic now under way: the U.S. has no defense
in the M.E. from Missile attack, if they continue to move forces to the ME to get to 100,000
(I calculate the Iranians as being able to field 100,000+ regulares and militia)it will be
viewed as an act of war as will bringing in Patriot systems.
All eyes must now be on what Washington DOES not what it says as, to most observers, it
always appears to be lying.
Bonus points for all westerners: can anyone think of a Western hero since DeGaulle or JFK?
I can't and I really wish it were otherwise.
My final comment on the topic. I blame both the war instigators and the local decision makers
for this tragedy. Yet, it is my strong impression that the person who pressed the button, the
US Cretin in Chief and Jonathan W here share about the same level of reasoning.
It is immensely comforting to know that one's life may be in the hands of such individual
at some point in life, hope NOT.
The obvious result of several generations of recruiting/hiring military and/or military
technicians for loyalty and obedience instead of intelligence. It is lucky for everyone that
they found that out now, before nuclear weapons were available.
Posted by: Mike-SMO | Jan 11 2020 14:23 utc | 154
Too late! Do you think that Pompeo got recruited/hired for intelligence? Or any believer
of the esoteric cult recently named "inter-agency consensus"? Not to mention that
brainwashing in educational programs of our finest institutions (check bio of Fiona Hill) can
dampen deleterious side-effects of intelligence (independent thinking and crap like that).
They got the nukes, and a galore of other toys to play with, as we had seen in the case of
Suleimani. And this process of creating esoteric supremacist doctrine is quite a bit longer
than the history of Iranian revolution.
I used the word esoteric to mean a doctrine with multiple levels of initiation and
knowledge, with deference to the higher levels. As Pompeo was explaining, there was a full
consensus among the people of the highest knowledge level, so Congressional blokes should
know their place. Most of them did, with a notable exception of a yokel from Utah.
kiza This is from last year. A good chance that after the Iranian missile strike, US would
have been trying to disrupt IRGC command and communication systems. IRGC manned the Tor unit
and according to Iran their coms were out at the time of the incident.
"The cyberattacks -- a contingency plan developed over weeks amid escalating tensions
-- disabled Iranian computer systems that controlled its rocket and missile launchers, the
officials said. Two of the officials said the attacks, which specifically targeted Iran's
Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps computer system, were provided as options after Iranian
forces blew up two oil tankers earlier this month."
Kiza, adding this sort of crap in each comment really does give you away. "which
essentially leaves considerable destructive power in the hands of below average brains
connected to twitchy fingers"
"... I have the feeling , just the suspicion , that they contributed to the Ukrainian disaster out of their genetic Drang nach Osten Nordic greed , is that right ? ..."
"... Anyway since the Ukrainian disaster the cohesion of the EU is going going down . Germany which was gifted with the German reunification , is less and less trusted specially in south Europe , and even less in the EU far west , in England which is going out of the EU . ..."
"... As a curiosity in 1945 the Zionists asked Stalin to give Crimea to the jews , Stalin refused . https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/164673/crimea-as-jewish-homeland ..."
"... is 2019 and life in Ukraine is barely better than it was 25-50 years ago, population has actually dropped from its peak in early 1990's. Millions of Ukrainians live abroad (I know some of them) and have – to be polite – at best an ambivalent attitude towards their homeland. Almost all of them prefer to be somewhere else, even to become someone else. ..."
"... I don't agree with the facile name-calling that sees Nazis everywhere and exaggerates throw-away symbolism. But Ukraine has not been functioning and it can't go like this much longer. Not because it will collapse, it won't, but because during an era of general prosperity Ukraine can't be a unstable exception (oh, I get it, they are better than Moldova, good for them.) ..."
"... Rebellions against geography are doomed. Projecting one's personal frustrations on external enemies (Kremlin!) has never worked. Ukraine needs rationality – accepting that they will not be in EU, that attempting to join Nato would destroy Ukraine, and that they can't beat Russia in a war. And following advise of half-mad and half-ignorant well-wishers from Washington or Brussels is a road to ruin. Nulands, Bidens and Tusks will never live in Ukraine, they really deeply don't care about it. They have no skin in that game, it is just entertainment for them. ..."
"... During WWII, Germany actually established settlements in Crimea. Think about it: there is a massive war, you have like 1-2 years, short on transport and resources, and you start sending settlers to Crimea – that's how much drang-nach-osten types wanted it. And the Turks, etc This must be driving them absolutely nuts. ..."
"... The mexicans say : when God created Mexico He gave Mexico everything ; land , mountains , plains , tropical forests , deserts , two oceans , agriculture , gold , silver , oil . then God saw how beautiful and perfect Mexico was and He though that He should also give something bad to the country to prevent the sin of pride , and then he populated Mexico with pure pendejos ,( idiots ) . ..."
"... If you want a decent analysis of current events in the Ukraine, which is what The Saker provides, I guess you'll just have to put up with his terminology. ..."
"... My experience is that Ukrainians individually are far from being pendejos . But they are unable to act as a group or as a nation. (Well, they 'act', but it mostly somehow fails.) ..."
"... Maybe it is the relative shallow and heterogenous history of Ukraine. Or – and this is what I have observed – a fundamental inner disloyalty to the Ukraine as a homeland. When one observes the assorted Porkys, Timoshenkas, Yanuks, the oligarchs, but also the crowds on Maidan, I get a sense that they are all about to leave Ukraine or are thinking about leaving. Societies can't be built with one foot always at the airport, or in an old car in a 5-km column waiting on the border of Poland. Or Russia. ..."
@Alfred I had the same thoughts. Zelenskii should show a similar coffin with the text
"This one is still empty" and then start rounding up the terrorists. He finally has a good
excuse.
Thank you Saker and Unz for the very interesting article .
I wonder what has been the role of Germany in the Ukrainian disaster . ...I have the
feeling , just the suspicion , that they contributed to the Ukrainian disaster out of their
genetic Drang nach Osten Nordic greed , is that right ?
Anyway since the Ukrainian disaster the cohesion of the EU is going going down . Germany
which was gifted with the German reunification , is less and less trusted specially in south
Europe , and even less in the EU far west , in England which is going out of the EU .
Most of the people in the EU would like to keep collaborating with the US , of course ,
but also with Russia and with the rest of the world . Most of the people in the UE are scared
of the dark forces operating in Ukraine trying to provoke a war with Russia .
The stupid name-calling like the term "ukronazi" makes this article look like a rant like
North Korean communiques or the ravings of some Arab despot's propagandist. It is not better
than calling "The Saker" a "Moskal", "Sovok" or "Putler's stooge" etc. He should keep this
lingo to directly "debating" "Ukronazis" on twitter or youtube commentst etc. not for an
article that is supposed to be a serious analysis.
I understand that it is hard for a Russian nationalist to accept that the majority of
Ukrainians don't want to belong to their dream Russkiy Mir, they were seduced by the West,
which is more attractive with all its failings, because mostly of simple materialistic
reasons.
Ukrainians happily go to EU countries that now allow them in as guest workers. The
fact, like it or not that majority of them chose the West over Russkiy Mir despite being very
close to Russians in culture, language, history etc. He is still in the first stage of grief
it seems.
All in all, Ukrainians are probably way above average in most human characteristics. The
area of Ukraine is by planetary standards one of the best available: arable land, great
rivers, Black see, pleasant and liveable.
But it is 2019 and life in Ukraine is barely better than it was 25-50 years ago,
population has actually dropped from its peak in early 1990's. Millions of Ukrainians live
abroad (I know some of them) and have – to be polite – at best an ambivalent
attitude towards their homeland. Almost all of them prefer to be somewhere else, even to
become someone else.
Now why is that? A normal society would have enough introspection to discuss this, to look
for answers. Throwing a temper-tantrum on a big square in Kiev every few years is not looking
for a solution. That is escapism, Orange-this, Maidan-that, 'Russians bad', 'we are going
West', 'golden toilets', and always 'Stalin did it'.
I don't agree with the facile name-calling that sees Nazis everywhere and exaggerates
throw-away symbolism. But Ukraine has not been functioning and it can't go like this much
longer. Not because it will collapse, it won't, but because during an era of general
prosperity Ukraine can't be a unstable exception (oh, I get it, they are better than Moldova,
good for them.)
Rebellions against geography are doomed. Projecting one's personal frustrations on
external enemies (Kremlin!) has never worked. Ukraine needs rationality – accepting
that they will not be in EU, that attempting to join Nato would destroy Ukraine, and that
they can't beat Russia in a war. And following advise of half-mad and half-ignorant
well-wishers from Washington or Brussels is a road to ruin. Nulands, Bidens and Tusks will
never live in Ukraine, they really deeply don't care about it. They have no skin in that
game, it is just entertainment for them.
Or alternatively you can pray that Russia collapses – good luck waiting for
that.
There is not much 'drang' left in Germany, so I think this is mostly fingers on the map
post dinner empty talk.
in 1945 the jewery asked Stalin to give Crimea to the jews , Stalin refused
Crimea is a jewel, but has one big problem: not enough water. But that's also true about
Israel, maybe there is a deep genetic memory of coming out of a desert environment.
During WWII, Germany actually established settlements in Crimea. Think about it: there is
a massive war, you have like 1-2 years, short on transport and resources, and you start
sending settlers to Crimea – that's how much drang-nach-osten types wanted it.
And the Turks, etc This must be driving them absolutely nuts.
The mexicans are able to make fun of themselves , that`s a good thing . They have a joke
which aplies also to Ukraina ( and other countries )
The mexicans say : when God created Mexico He gave Mexico everything ; land , mountains ,
plains , tropical forests , deserts , two oceans , agriculture , gold , silver , oil . then
God saw how beautiful and perfect Mexico was and He though that He should also give something
bad to the country to prevent the sin of pride , and then he populated Mexico with pure
pendejos ,( idiots ) .
@AWM "Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references?
If you want a decent analysis of current events in the Ukraine, which is what The Saker
provides, I guess you'll just have to put up with his terminology.
The world won't miss a thing if Curmudgeon or AWM goes off in a huff, to sit on his toilet
and read the "one joke per dump" volume lodged on the tank and stops reading The Saker's very
thorough analysis as a protest action!
@AnonMy experience is that Ukrainians individually are far from being pendejos .
But they are unable to act as a group or as a nation. (Well, they 'act', but it mostly
somehow fails.)
Maybe it is the relative shallow and heterogenous history of Ukraine. Or – and this
is what I have observed – a fundamental inner disloyalty to the Ukraine as a homeland.
When one observes the assorted Porkys, Timoshenkas, Yanuks, the oligarchs, but also the
crowds on Maidan, I get a sense that they are all about to leave Ukraine or are thinking
about leaving. Societies can't be built with one foot always at the airport, or in an old car
in a 5-km column waiting on the border of Poland. Or Russia.
Another good article – thanks – Yep, the US/EU NWO is not going to let their
"West Ukraine Isis" battalions and intel gang lose their funding , arms trafficking ops, or
terrorist reputation. This is a no win situation in Ukraine and the West knows it –
Even if NovoRossiya gets some independence, the Ukraine Isis will/can reek havoc and murder
for a long time along the border. The modern Cheka { Ukraine Isis } has been modified for the
security of the new Farmland owners – Monsanto, Cargill, DuPont and the rest of the
Globalist Corporations and their ports close to Odessa.
One point of contention since it wasn't made clear in this article – Novorussia
consists of Luhansk and Donetsk, but not Kharkov. While Kharkov has more Russians than most
other provinces of Ukraine do, it does not have a plurality like Donetsk and Luhansk.
All of Ukraine's doomsayers have been crying about Ukraine's demise for the lat 25
years, yet the fact is that it' s getting stronger and stronger every year,
USA diaspora keeps on delivering.
Shoutout to quarter/half Poles USA citizens LARPing as Ukrainian patriots in the
comments.
Ukraine is now a pawn in a big geopolitical game against Russia. Which somehow survived 90th when everybody including myself has
written it off.
That's why the USA, EU (Germany) and Russia pulling the country in different directions. But the victory of Ukrainian nationalists
is not surprising and is not solely based on the US interferences (although the USA did lot in this direction) pursuit its geopolitical
game against Russia. Distancing themselves from Russa is a universal trend in Post-Soviet space. And it often takes ugly forms.
So Ukraine in not an exception here. It is part of the "rule". Essentially the dissolution of the USSR revised the result on WWII.
And while the author correctly calls Ukrainian leader US stooges, they moved in this direction because they feel that it is necessary
for maintaining the independence. In other words anti-Russian stance is considered by the Ukrainian elite as a a pre-condition for mainlining
independence. Otherwise people like Parubiy would be in jail very soon. They are tolerated and even promoted because they are useful.
It repeats the story of Baltic Republics, albeit with a significant time delay. There should be some social group that secure independence
of the country and Ukrainian nationalists happen to be such a group. That's why Yanukovich supported them and Svoboda party (with predictable
results).
Notable quotes:
"... The ideological fissures that are growing in the United States are beginning to resemble the warring camps that characterize the Ukrainian political world. The divide in Ukraine pits groups who are described as "right wing" and many are ideological descendants of real Nazis and Nazi sympathizers against groups with a strong affinity to Russia. This kind of gap cannot be bridged through conventional negotiations. ..."
"... Jump ahead now to the April 2014 "uprising" of anti-Russian forces in the Ukraine (Maidan 2). The US was firmly on the side of the protesters, who ultimately succeeded in ousting the elected President. And who were helping lead this effort? ..."
"... The US support, both overt and covert, for Ukrainian politicians is grounded in an anti-Soviet (now anti-Russian) ideology. We have convinced ourselves that Russia is hell bent on world domination. Therefore we must do whatever is necessary to stop Russia, which includes uncritical, blind support for elements in Ukraine that also detest the Russians. But in doing so we have closed our eyes to the filthy underbelly of the virulent anti-Semitism that lurks in western Ukraine. ..."
"... US meddling in the Ukraine is astonishing in its breadth. It ranges from the fact that the wife of former President Viktor Yuschenko was an American citizen and former senior official in the US State Department. Do you think there would be no complaints if Melania Trump was born in Russia and had served in the Russian Foreign Ministry? Yet, most Americans are happily ignorant of such facts. ..."
"... US interference was not confined to serendipitous relationships, such as the Yushchenko marriage. It also included the open and active funding of certain political groups and media outlets. The US State Department sent money through a variety of outlets. One of these was the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening aka CEPPS. ..."
"... This is : ..."
"... Count me as one of the people who is outraged by the hypocrisy and stupidity now on display in the United States. I am not talking about Trump. I am referring to the Republicans and Democrats and pundits and media mouthpieces who are fuming about Russian citizens writing on Facebook as one of the worst catastrophes since Pearl Harbor or 9-11. ..."
"... There clearly is meddling going on in America's political landscape. But it isn't the Russian Government. No. There are foreign and domestic forces aligned who are keen on portraying Russia as a threat to world order that must be opposed by more defense spending and tougher sanctions. That is the propaganda that dominates the media in the United States these days. And that is truly dangerous to our nation's safety and freedom. ..."
"... A CIA guy recently said the US only interferes to 'promote democracy' - tell that to Australia, Vietnam, Mexico, Chile, Congo, Russia, Ukraine...it's a long long list. ..."
"... An independent Ukraine was also a project of German foreign policy after the Brest-Litowsk Treaty (the equivalent of the Versailles Treaty, only aimed at Russia) SO I have o wonder how much of the enthusiasm for Vicky Nuland's Israel friendly Nazi state-let (oh what irony!) is a product of Germany wanting to reassert itself in the east, using NATO solidarity as a fig leaf. Maybe they will make Ukraine import a lot o Africans "refugees" so that Soros' project of creating a brown Europe will be advanced in the Slavic sphere as well as the west. ..."
"... The liberal party - who provides the prime-minister - EU leader Hans van Baalen and Belgian ex-prime minister Guy Verhostad held a controversial speech on the Maidan square in support of the protesters that the EU will support them. ..."
"... I wouldn't put to much stress on Bandera having been a bad guy. His enemies were no better. They just won the war and the victors write history. The deeper problem of Ukraine is the fact that in the East of the country (and maybe even the majority of the country) Bandera is indeed regarded as a villain. But in the West he is a hero to this day. Even in Soviet times people from Western Ukraine were regarded as "fascists" by much of the rest of the country. No wonder as there were anti soviet partisans until late in the fifties. ..."
"... "Prorussian" Kutshma turned into a Ukrainian "patriot" (such is the logic of statehood) and the same thing happened with Yanukovich. People forget that he would have signed an association agreement with Europe had Europe not refused because he was insufficiently "democratic". ..."
"... But the West wanted it all. They wanted Ukraine firmly in the "Western" camp. Thereby they ripped the country apart. As a good friend of mine who has studied in Kiev in Soviet times remarked: to ask Ukraine to choose between East and West is like asking a child in divorce proceedings who it liked more: daddy or mummy? ..."
"... A very interesting conversation between Victoria Nulland and ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, caught at picking the future rulers of liberated Ukraine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk This is not meddling. This is a defensive (preemptive?) action against Russian agression. ..."
"... I've never seen such an intense barrage of propaganda before in my life. America is fracturing apart like Ukraine. This is no coincidence. In both countries, oligarchs have seized power, the rule of law abandoned and there is a rush of corruption. ..."
"... What we did to Ukraine is shameful in every way. A remember a video of a pallet of money being unloaded from a USG place at Kiev during Maidan 2. That's in addition to Nuland's bag of cookies. I always thought that one of the objectives of our meddling in Ukraine was to make Sevastopol into a NATO naval base. ..."
"... Our leaders are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. The Ukraine was almost evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian sides. Our government, rather than waiting for an election, assisted an armed rebellion against the elected pro-Russian government. Among the groups our government allied with in this endeavor were out and out Nazis. ..."
The ideological fissures that are growing in the United States are beginning to resemble the warring camps that characterize
the Ukrainian political world. The divide in Ukraine pits groups who are described as "right wing" and many are ideological descendants
of real Nazis and Nazi sympathizers against groups with a strong affinity to Russia. This kind of gap cannot be bridged through conventional
negotiations.
Who is the United States government and media supporting? The Nazis . You think I'm joking. Here are the facts, but we must go
back to World War II
:
When World War II began a large part of western Ukraine welcomed the German soldiers as liberators from the recently enforced
Soviet rule and openly collaborated with the Germans. The Soviet leader, Stalin, imposed policies that caused the deaths of almost
7 million Ukrainians in the 1930s--an era known as the Holomodor).
Ukrainian divisions, regiments and battalions were formed, such as SS Galizien, Nachtigal and Roland, and served under German
leadership. In the first few weeks of the war, more than 80 thousand people from the Galizien region volunteered for the SS Galizien,
which later known for its extreme cruelty towards Polish, Jewish and Russian people on the territory of Ukraine.
Members of these military groups came mostly from the organization of Ukrainian nationalists aka the OUN, which was founded in
1929. It's leader was Stepan Bandera, known then and today for his extreme anti-semitic and anti-communist views.
CIA documents just recently declassified show strong ties between US intelligence and Ukrainian nationalists since 1946.
Jump ahead now to the April 2014 "uprising" of anti-Russian forces in the Ukraine (Maidan 2). The US was firmly on the side
of the protesters, who ultimately succeeded in ousting the elected President.
And who were helping lead
this effort?
Secretary of the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council is Andriy Parubiy. Parubiy was the founder of the Social National
Party of Ukraine, a fascist party styled on Hitler's Nazis, with membership restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.
The Social National Party would go on to become Svoboda, the far-right nationalist party whose leader,
Oleh Tyahnybok was
one of the three most high profile leaders of the Euromaidan protests. . . .
Overseeing the armed forces alongside Parubiy as the Deputy Secretary of National Security is
Dmytro Yarosh , the leader of the Right
Sector – a group of hardline nationalist streetfighters, who
previously boasted they were ready for
armed struggle to free Ukraine.
The US support, both overt and covert, for Ukrainian politicians is grounded in an anti-Soviet (now anti-Russian) ideology.
We have convinced ourselves that Russia is hell bent on world domination. Therefore we must do whatever is necessary to stop Russia,
which includes uncritical, blind support for elements in Ukraine that also detest the Russians. But in doing so we have closed our
eyes to the filthy underbelly of the virulent anti-Semitism that lurks in western Ukraine.
US meddling in the Ukraine is astonishing in its breadth. It ranges from the fact that the wife of former President Viktor
Yuschenko was an American citizen and former senior official in the US State Department. Do you think there would be no complaints
if Melania Trump was born in Russia and had served in the Russian Foreign Ministry? Yet, most Americans are happily ignorant of such
facts.
But Viktor Yushchenko is not an American who speaks a foreign language. He is very much a Ukrainian nationalist and steeped in
the anti-Semitism that dominates the ideology of western Ukraine. During the final months of his Presidency, Yushchenko made the
following declaration:
In conclusion I would like to say something that is long awaited by the Ukrainian patriots for many years I have signed a decree
for the unbroken spirit and standing for the idea of fighting for independent Ukraine. I declare Stepan Bandera a national hero of
Ukraine.
Without hesitation or shame, Yushchenko endorsed the legacy of Bandera, who had happily aligned with the Nazis in pursuit of his
own nationalist goals. Those goals, however, did not include Jews. And here is the ultimate irony--Bandera was born in Austria, not
the Ukraine. So much for ideological consistency.
US interference was not confined to serendipitous relationships, such as the Yushchenko marriage. It also included the open
and active funding of certain political groups and media outlets. The US State Department sent money through a variety of outlets.
One of these was the Consortium for Elections and Political Process Strengthening aka CEPPS.
This is :
a USAID program with other National Endowment for Democracy-affiliated groups: the National Democratic Institute for International
Affairs, the International Republican Institute and the International Foundation for Electoral Systems. In 2010, the reported disbursement
for CEPPS in Ukraine was nearly $5 million.
The program's efforts are described on the USAID website as providing "training for political party activists and locally elected
officials to improve communication with civic groups and citizens, and the development of NGO-led advocacy campaigns on electoral
and political process issues."
Anyone prepared to argue that it would be okay for Russia, through its Foreign Ministry, to contribute several million dollars
for training party activists in the United States?
What we do not know is how much money was being spent on covert activities directed and managed by the CIA. During the political
upheaval in April 2014 (Maidan 2), there was this news item:
Over the weekend, CIA director John Brennan travelled to Kiev, nobody knows exactly why, but some speculate that he intends to
open US intelligence resources to Ukrainian leaders about real-time Russian military maneuvers. The US has, thus far, refrained from
sharing such knowledge because Moscow is believed to have penetrated much of Ukraine's communications systems – and
Washington isn't about to hand over its surveillance secrets to the
Russians.
Do you think Americans would be outraged if the head of Russia's version of the CIA, the SVR or FSB, traveled quietly to the United
States to meet with Donald Trump prior to his election? I think that would qualify as meddling.
Count me as one of the people who is outraged by the hypocrisy and stupidity now on display in the United States. I am not
talking about Trump. I am referring to the Republicans and Democrats and pundits and media mouthpieces who are fuming about Russian
citizens writing on Facebook as one of the worst catastrophes since Pearl Harbor or 9-11.
There clearly is meddling going on in America's political landscape. But it isn't the Russian Government. No. There are foreign
and domestic forces aligned who are keen on portraying Russia as a threat to world order that must be opposed by more defense spending
and tougher sanctions. That is the propaganda that dominates the media in the United States these days. And that is truly dangerous
to our nation's safety and freedom.
Good post pt.. thanks... i never knew ''the wife of former President Viktor Yushchenko was an American citizen and former senior
official in the US State Department.'' That is informative.. i recall following this closely back in 2014.. the hypocrisy on display
in the usa at present is truly amazing and frightening at the same time.. it appears that the public can be cowed very easily..
On the twitters, you would be accused of "whatabouttism" - which is the crime of excusing Putin's diabolism by pointing out
American interference with the internal politics an elections of other nations. A CIA guy recently said the US only interferes
to 'promote democracy' - tell that to Australia, Vietnam, Mexico, Chile, Congo, Russia, Ukraine...it's a long long list.
An independent Ukraine was also a project of German foreign policy after the Brest-Litowsk Treaty (the equivalent of the
Versailles Treaty, only aimed at Russia) SO I have o wonder how much of the enthusiasm for Vicky Nuland's Israel friendly Nazi
state-let (oh what irony!) is a product of Germany wanting to reassert itself in the east, using NATO solidarity as a fig leaf.
Maybe they will make Ukraine import a lot o Africans "refugees" so that Soros' project of creating a brown Europe will be advanced
in the Slavic sphere as well as the west.
It's not only the US. The EU borg are also meddling. In my country we had a referendum about Ukraine. The population voted "Against"
on the question: "Are you for or against the Approval Act of the Association Agreement between the European Union and Ukraine?"
This was the only referendum that was done since it was implemented in 2015. A second one is being organized on the Intelligence
and Security Services which has controversial parts with regard to access to internet traffic.
This referendum will take place on March 21, 2018 and will probably be voted against because of the controversial elements
(in part because there is still living memory of our Eastern neighbors in the second world war)
These 2 will probably be the last. Our house of representatives have voted yesterday to end the referendum law (with a majority
vote of 76 out of 150 representatives!)
So much for democracy. The reason stated that the referendum was controversial (probably because they voted against the EU
borg). Interesting is that the proposal was done by the party that wanted the referendum as a principal point. This will almost
certainly ensure that the little respect left for traditional parties is gone and they will not be able to get a majority next
elections.
The liberal party - who provides the prime-minister - EU leader
Hans van Baalen and Belgian ex-prime minister Guy
Verhostad held a controversial speech on the Maidan square in support of the protesters that the EU will support them.
I wouldn't put to much stress on Bandera having been a bad guy. His enemies were no better. They just won the war and the
victors write history. The deeper problem of Ukraine is the fact that in the East of the country (and maybe even the majority
of the country) Bandera is indeed regarded as a villain. But in the West he is a hero to this day. Even in Soviet times people
from Western Ukraine were regarded as "fascists" by much of the rest of the country. No wonder as there were anti soviet partisans
until late in the fifties.
Even in the nineties anybody who travelled in Ukraine could feel the tension between East and West. The Russians were certainly
aware of it and mindful not to rip the country apart they cut the Ukrainians an enormous amount of slack. Of course they supported
"their" candidates and shoveled money into their insatiable throats. Only to be disappointed time and again. "Prorussian"
Kutshma turned into a Ukrainian "patriot" (such is the logic of statehood) and the same thing happened with Yanukovich. People
forget that he would have signed an association agreement with Europe had Europe not refused because he was insufficiently "democratic".
Really the West should have been content with things as they were.
But the West wanted it all. They wanted Ukraine firmly in the "Western" camp. Thereby they ripped the country apart. As
a good friend of mine who has studied in Kiev in Soviet times remarked: to ask Ukraine to choose between East and West is like
asking a child in divorce proceedings who it liked more: daddy or mummy?
Really the West (not only the US -the Eu is also guilty) is to blame. It is long past time to get down from the high horse
and stop spreading chaos and mayhem in the name of democracy,
An informative column. The coup & later developments soured me on the MSMedia. I'm an initiate into modern Russian
history: NATO in the Ukraine = WW3!
Some additional history:
A Ukrainian nation did not exist until after WW1; one piece was Russian, another Polish and another Austrian. The Holodomor
is exaggerated for political purposes; the actual number dead from famine appears to be 'only' 2M. It wasn't Soviet bloody mindedness,
it was Soviet agricultural mismanagement; collectivizing agriculture drops production.
They did this right before the great drought of the 1930s - remember the dustbowl. There was a famine in Kazakestan at the
same time; 1.5M died.
The Nazis raised 5 SS divisions out of the Ukraine. As the Germans were pushed back they ran night drops of ordnance into the
Ukraine as long as they could. The Soviets had to carry on divisional level counter insurgency until 1956. After the war, Gehlen,
Nazi intelligence czar, kept himself out of jail by turning over his files, routes & agents to the US. He also stoked anti Soviet
paranoia.
The Brits ended up with a whole Ukr SS division that they didn't want, so they gave it to Canada. Which is why Canada has such
cranky policy around the Ukraine!
A very interesting conversation between Victoria Nulland and ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt, caught at picking the future rulers
of liberated Ukraine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QxZ8t3V_bk
This is not meddling. This is a defensive (preemptive?) action against Russian agression.
I'm sure you'd like us to ignore Bandera. I bet he liked children and dogs. Just like Hitler. Bandera was a genuine bad
guy. There is no rehabilitating that scourge on society. Nice try though.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that your final comment is sarcasm. When you have two senior US Government officials
who will and will not constitute a foreign government, you have gone beyond meddling. It is worse.
The media is hysterical. Today, Putin's Facebook Bot Collaborator contacted the Kremlin before his mercenaries attacked Americans
in Syria.
I've never seen such an intense barrage of propaganda before in my life. America is fracturing apart like Ukraine. This
is no coincidence. In both countries, oligarchs have seized power, the rule of law abandoned and there is a rush of corruption.
A World War is near. The realists are gone. The Moguls are pushing Donald Trump pull the trigger. Either in Syria with an assault
to destroy Hezbollah (Iran) for good or American trainers going over the top of trenches in Donbass in a centennial attack of
the dead.
Hallelujah and jubilation! We're in full agreement on this subject. What we did to Ukraine is shameful in every way. A
remember a video of a pallet of money being unloaded from a USG place at Kiev during Maidan 2. That's in addition to Nuland's
bag of cookies. I always thought that one of the objectives of our meddling in Ukraine was to make Sevastopol into a NATO naval
base.
I would definitely want to see a full account of what support we provided to the nazi thugs of Svoboda and Pravy Sektor. We
have a long history of meddling, at least twice as long as the Soviet Union/Russia. But that does not mean we should stop investigating
the Russian interference in our 2016 election. Just stop hyperventilating over it. It no more deserves risking a war than our
continuing mutual espionage.
Our leaders are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. The Ukraine was almost evenly divided between pro-Western and pro-Russian
sides. Our government, rather than waiting for an election, assisted an armed rebellion against the elected pro-Russian government.
Among the groups our government allied with in this endeavor were out and out Nazis.
As a result of this rebellion, the Russian majority in Crimea overwhelming voted to leave the Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which
they had been part of for over 150-years. While our government continues to provide military aid to Israel, which used force of
arms take over the West Bank, it imposed sanctions against Russia when the people of Crimea voted to join their former countrymen.
Mind boggling.
"... Are the security forces loyal to him to the extent that he could realistically counted on them to carry out a crackdown on
the "Nazis"? ..."
"... I am sympathetic to a lot of what Putin has felt it necessary to do, but I must say, I don't buy the incessant use of the term
"Ukronazi." Sounds propagandistic. ..."
"... What about the Ukrainian people? A large majority of them voted for some sort of reconciliation with the separatists and Russia.
They did so twice: once for Zelenskii, and once again for his party. Does that count for nothing? ..."
"... I think the plan is to wait until Russia collapses from Western sanctions, and then invade Crimea and Donbass. They didn't
give up on the territory by any means, which is why I don't think that any ceasefire in Donbass will hold. It is going to remain a slow-burning
conflict, the regime will continue to complain about "Russian invasion" and international investors will continue to avoid the Ukraine.
..."
The recent Paris summit and the few days following the summit have brought a lot of clarity about the future of the Minsk Agreements.
Short version: Kiev has officially rejected them (by rejecting both the sequence of steps and several crucial steps). For those interested,
let's look a little further.
First, what just happened
First, here are the key excerpts from the Paris Conference and from statements made by "Ze" and his superior, Arsen Avakov right
after their return to Kiev:
The Minsk agreements (Minsk Protocol of 5 September 2014, Minsk Memorandum of 19 September 2014 and the Minsk Package of Measures
of 12 February 2015) continue to be the basis of the work of the Normandy format whose member states are committed to their
full implementation ( ) The sides express interest in agreeing within the Normandy format (N4) and the Trilateral Contact
Group on all the legal aspects of the Special Order of Local Self-Government – special status – of Certain Areas of the Donetsk
and Luhansk Regions – as outlined in the Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements from 2015 – in order
to ensure its functioning on a permanent basis .They consider it necessary to incorporate the "Steinmeier formula" into the Ukrainian
legislation, in accordance with the version agreed upon within the N4 and the Trilateral Contact Group.
President 'Ze' statement on Ukrainian TV: (unofficial, in-house, translation) source
" The most difficult question is the question of the transfer of the border control to Ukraine. It's very funny, because
its our border and the transfer of the control to us. But, it's a weak sport, the Achilles' heel of the Minsk Agreement." "It's
what was signed by us, unfortunately. We can discuss this for a very long time. Possibly, the conditions were as such." "But we
signed that we will get the control over our border only after the elections on the temporarily occupied territories." "We dedicated
a very long time to this question, we discussed it in details, we have a very different positions with the president of
Russia ." "But this is the Minsk position, we have to understand this. I only like one thing, that we started talking about
this. We agreed that we will continue talking about this in details and with the different variations during our next meeting."
"This is also a victory, because we will have a meeting in four months."
Q. What do you think, is it possible to change the Minsk Agreement? source
" This will be very difficult to do, but we have to do it. We have to change it . First, we have to understand
that it's been over four years since the Minsk Agreement was signed. Everything changes in our life. We have to understand that
it wasn't my team that signed the Minsk Agreement, but we as a power have to fulfill the conditions that our power at the time
agreed back then. But? I am sure that some things we will be able to change. We will be changing them." "Because the transfer
of the Ukraine's border after our control only after the elections, – it's not our position. I said about this don't know how
many times, but this is the final decision ."
Arsen Avakov's statement on Ukrainian TV: (unofficial, in-house, translation):
" The philosophy of the border control the part of the border that we don't have control over is 408 kilometers. It's not that
easy to take it over, to equip it, even to get there across the enemy territories. It's a procedure. As a compromise, we offered
the following scheme: we will start taking the border under our control stating with the New Year, little by little, reducing the
length of the border that is not controlled by us, and a day before the local election we will close the border, we will close this
bottleneck. And this way will get the control over the border. Why isn't this a good compromise? Considering, that at the same time
according to the Steinmeier Formula, they have to disarm all the illegal armed formations of this pseudo-state DNR. This is how we
see the compromise."
In other words, both the official President and real President of the Ukraine agree: the Ukraine will not implement the Minsk
Agreements as written, made law by the UNSC and clarified by the so-called Steinmeier Formula.
Ukrainian propagandists on Russian TV (yes, Urkonazi and hardline nationalist propagandists do get air time on Russian TV on a
daily basis – for an explanation why, see here and here ) went into damage
control mode and explained it all away by saying " these are only words, what matters is what Zelenskii signed in Paris ".
They are wrong. First of all, statements made in their official capacity by the President or the Minister of Internal Affairs do
represent OFFICIAL policy statements. Second, this explanation completely overlooks the reason why Ze and Avakov said these things.
That reason is very simple: Ze caved in to the Urkonazis, completely. He now uses EXACTLY the same rhetoric as Poroshenko did, in
spite of the fact that the only reason he was elected is that he presented himself as the ultimate anti-Poroshenko. Now all we see
is Poroshenko 2.0.
So in the behind-the-scenes (but very real) struggle between the Zionist camp (Kolomoiskii and Zelenskii) and the Urkonazi camp
(Avakov and Poroshenko), the latter have successfully taken control of the former and now the chances for saving a unitary Ukraine
are down to, maybe not quite zero, but to something like 0.0000001% (I leave that one under the heading "never say never" and because
I have been wrong in the past).
So what happens next?
That is the interesting question. In theory, the Normandy Four will meet again in 4 months. But that assumes that some progress
was made. Well, it is possible that in a few sections of the line of contact there will be an OSCE supervised withdrawal of forces.
But, let's be honest here, the people have seen many, many such promised withdrawals, and they all turned out to be fake. Either
the Ukronazis return to the neutral zone (claiming huge victories over the (sic) "Russian armed force"), or they resume bombing civilians,
or they never even bother to change position. Any withdrawal is a good thing if it can save a single life! But no amount of withdrawals
will settle anything in this conflict.
Second, there are A LOT of Ukrainian politicians who now say that the citizens of the LDNR have to "return" to Russia if they
don't like the Urkonazi coup or its ideology. They either don't realize, or don't care, that there are very few Russian volunteers
in Novorussia and that the vast majority of the men and women who compose the LDNR forces are locals. These locals, by the way, get
the Ukie message loud and clear: you better get away while you can, because when we show up you will all be prosecuted for terrorism
and aiding terrorists, that is ALSO something the Urkonazis like to repeat day after day. By the way, while in Banderastan all Russian
TV channels are censored, and while they also try to censor the Russian language Internet, in Novorussia all the Ukrainian (and Russian)
TV stations are freely available. So as soon as some Nazi freak comes out and says something crazy like "we will create filtration
camps" (aka concentration camps) this news is instantly repeated all over Novorussia, which only strengthens the resolve of the people
of the LDNR to fight to their death rather than accept a Nazi occupation..
I said it many times, Zelenskii's ONLY chance was to crackdown on the Nazis as soon as he was elected. He either did not have
the courage to do so, or his U.S. bosses told him to leave them unmolested. Whatever the case may be, it's now over, we are back
to square one.
The most likely scenario is a "slow freezing" of the conflict meaning now that Kiev has officially and overtly rejected the Minsk
Agreements, there will be some minor, pretend-negotiations, maybe, but that fundamentally the conflict will be frozen.
That will be the last nail in the coffin of the pro-EU, pro-NATO so-called "Independent Ukraine", since the most important condition
to try to salvage the Ukrainian economy, namely peace, is now gone. Furthermore, the political climate in the Ukraine will further
deteriorate (the hated Nazi minority + an even worse economic crisis are a perfect recipe for disaster).
For the Novorussians, it's now clear: the rump-Ukraine* does not want them, nor will Kiev ever agree to the Minsk Agreement. That
means that the LDNR will separate from the rump-Ukraine and, on time, rejoin Russia. Good bye Banderites and Urkonazis!
The rump-Ukraine will eventually break-up further: Crimea truly was the "jewel of the Black Sea" and its future appears to be
extremely bright while the Donbass was the biggest source of raw materials, energy, industry, high-tech, etc. etc. etc.). What is
left of the Ukraine is either poor and under-developed (the West) or needs to reopen economic ties with Russia (the South).
Besides, Zelenskii and his party are now trying to rush a new law through the Rada which will allow the sale of Ukrainian land
to private interests (aka foreign interests + a local frontman). As a result, there is now a new "maidan" brewing, pitting Iulia
Timoshenko and other nationalist leaders against Zelenskii and his party. This could become a major crisis very fast, especially
now that is appears that Zelenskii will also renege on this promise to call for a national referendum on the issue of the sale/privatization
of land .
As for the Russians, they already realize that Ze is a joke, unsurprisingly so since he is a comic by trade, and that the Ukrainians
are "not agreement capable". They will treat him like they did Poroshenko in the last years: completely ignore him and not even take
his telephone calls. Right now, there is just a tiny bit of good will left in Moscow, but it is drying up so fast that it will soon
totally disappear. Besides, the Russians really don't care that much anymore: the sanctions turned out to be a blessing, time is
on Russia's side, the Ukronazis are destroying their own state and, finally, the important stuff for Russia is happening in Asia,
not the West.
The Europeans will take a long time to come to terms with two simple facts:
Russia was never a party to this conflict (if she had, it would have been over long ago). The Ukronazis are the ones who won't implement
the Minsk Agreements
This means that the politicians who were behind the EU's backing of the Euromaidan (Merkel) will have to go before their successors
can say that, oops, we got our colors confused, and white is actually black and black turned out to be white. That's okay, politicians
are pretty good at that. The honeymoon between Kiev and Warsaw on the one hand and Berlin on the other will soon end as bad times
are ahead.
Macron looks much better, and he will probably pursue his efforts to restore semi-normal relations with Russia, for France's sake
first, but also eventually the rest of the EU. The Poles and the Balts will accuse him of "treason" and he will just ignore them.
As for Trump, he will most likely make small steps towards Russia, but most of his energy will be directed either inwards (impeachment)
or outwards (Israel), but not towards the Ukrainian conflict. Good.
Conclusion
It's over. Crimea and the Donbass are gone forever, the first is de jure , the latter merely de facto . The rump-Ukraine
is completely unconformable (barring some kind of coup followed by a government of national unity supported Moscow – I consider this
hypothesis as highly unlikely).
If you live in the West, don't expect your national media to report on any of this. They will be the LAST ones to actually admit
it (journos have a longer shelf life than politicians, it is harder for them to make a 180).
PS: to get a feeling for the kind of silly stunts the "Ze team" is now busying itself with, just check this one: they actually
tried to falsify the Ukrainian version of the Paris Communique. For details, see Scott's report here: https://thesaker.is/kiev-attempted-to-change-the-letter-and-meaning-of-paris-summit-communique/
. If the Ukraine was a Kindergarten, then "Ze" would be a perfect classroom teacher or visiting entertainer. But for a country
fighting for its survival, such stunts are a very, very bad sign indeed!
(*rump-Ukraine: In broad terms, a "rump" state is what remains of a state when a portion is carved away. Expanding on the "butcher"
metaphor, the rump is what is left when the higher-value cuts such as rib roast and loin have been removed.)
I said it many times, Zelenskii's ONLY chance was to crackdown on the Nazis as soon as he was elected. He either did not
have the courage to do so, or his U.S. bosses told him to leave them unmolested.
Are the security forces loyal to him to the extent that he could realistically counted on them to carry out a crackdown
on the "Nazis"?
For the Novorussians, it's now clear: the rump-Ukraine* does not want them, nor will Kiev ever agree to the Minsk Agreement.
So what is the Ukrainian thinking here -- that they are better off simply cutting bait on the east and letting Russia deal
with the headache of the Donbass's antiquated infrastructure? And that a truncated Ukraine would at least be mostly free of internal
pro-Russian sentiment?
I am sympathetic to a lot of what Putin has felt it necessary to do, but I must say, I don't buy the incessant use of the
term "Ukronazi." Sounds propagandistic.
What about the Ukrainian people? A large majority of them voted for some sort of reconciliation with the separatists and Russia.
They did so twice: once for Zelenskii, and once again for his party. Does that count for nothing?
I think the plan is to wait until Russia collapses from Western sanctions, and then invade Crimea and Donbass. They didn't
give up on the territory by any means, which is why I don't think that any ceasefire in Donbass will hold. It is going to remain
a slow-burning conflict, the regime will continue to complain about "Russian invasion" and international investors will continue
to avoid the Ukraine.
"That reason is very simple: Ze caved in to the Ukronazis, completely. He now uses EXACTLY the same rhetoric as Poroshenko did,
in spite of the fact that the only reason he was elected is that he presented himself as the ultimate anti-Poroshenko. Now all
we see is Poroshenko 2.0."
This is interesting. It implies z actually meant what he said in order to gain votes to get elected. In fact, he is very similar
to trump in this respect. Lied about desiring an end to the conflict (conflicts in the case of trump), but once in office continued
the aggressive policies (and expanded them in the case of trump). Actually, if one considers poroshenko as the ukraine version
of obama/clinton and zelinsky as trump, it looks like the ukrainian regime is following in the footsteps of the american regime.
It's not just Minsk that has been abandoned by the Kiev junta. Kiev itself has been abandoned by the EU, which now looks to Nordstream-2
for its energy supplies from Russia, thus bypassing the thieves in Ukraine. Even sanctions from the Supreme Sanctioner in DC is
not going to persuade the Germans to shiver in the winter.
"... Why have we supported Nguema, Karimov, and Kagame but not the ones who are thorns in our sides? The reasons are obvious. It's not the lives of their citizens - it's power for the elite class. We intervene abroad because we want to further the interest of the wealthy. ..."
"... America will always pick and choose the leaders it props up and tears down. It never was and never will be for humanitarian reasons -- that is a clever veil. We denounce ethnic cleansing and then fund it. We call for free elections and then support Pinochet, Stroessner, and Videla. ..."
"... Opposing war is a noble and courageous act, and there will always be smears. Opposing war isn't supporting dictators; it's opposing death and destruction in the service of the wealthy. Never believe what they tell you about why they're sending your kids to die. Never. ..."
Idealistic Realist , Apr 27, 2019 1:24:45 PM |
link
Best analysis by a candidate for POTUS ever:
American foreign policy is not a failure. To comfort themselves, observers often say that our leaders -- presidents, advisors,
generals -- don't know what they're doing. They do know. Their agenda just isn't what we like to imagine it is.
To quote Michael Parenti: "US policy is not filled with contradictions and inconsistencies. It has performed brilliantly
and steadily in the service of those who own most of the world and who want to own all of it."
The vision of our leaders as bunglers, while more accurate than the image of them as valiant public servants, is less accurate
and more rose-tinted than the closest approximation of the truth, which is that they are servants of their class interest.
That is why we go to war.
Those who buy the elite class's foreign policy BS, about the Emmanuel Goldsteins they conjure up every three years, are
fools. Obviously Hussein and Milošević were bad; but "government bad" does not mean we must invade. Wars occur for economic,
not humanitarian, reasons.
Teodoro Obiang Nguema, the president of Equatorial Guinea, is a kleptocrat, murderer, and alleged cannibal. This is
him and his wife with Barack and Michelle Obama.
Islam Karimov, the president of Uzbekistan, was said to have boiled political prisoners to death, massacred hundreds
of prisoners, and made torture an institution. This is him with John Kerry.
Paul Kagame, the president of Rwanda, has been involved in the assassination of political opponents, perpetrated obvious
election fraud, and had his term extended until 2034. This is him with Barack and Michelle Obama.
Why have we supported Nguema, Karimov, and Kagame but not the ones who are thorns in our sides? The reasons are obvious.
It's not the lives of their citizens - it's power for the elite class. We intervene abroad because we want to further the interest
of the wealthy.
America will always pick and choose the leaders it props up and tears down. It never was and never will be for humanitarian
reasons -- that is a clever veil. We denounce ethnic cleansing and then fund it. We call for free elections and then support
Pinochet, Stroessner, and Videla.
Opposing war is a noble and courageous act, and there will always be smears. Opposing war isn't supporting dictators;
it's opposing death and destruction in the service of the wealthy. Never believe what they tell you about why they're sending
your kids to die. Never.
"... You are turning a policy disagreement between two branches of government into an impeachable offense -- it is no more legitimate than the Executive Branch charging members of Congress with crimes for the lawful exercise of legislative power. ..."
"... You know full well that Vice President Biden used his office and $1 billion dollars of U.S. aid money to coerce Ukraine into firing the prosecutor who was digging into the company paying his son millions of dollars. You know this because Biden bragged about it on video. Biden openly stated: "I said, 'I'm telling you, you're not getting the billion dollars' I looked at them and said: 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' Well, son of a bitch. He got fired." Even Joe Biden admitted just days ago in an interview with NPR that it "looked bad." Now you are trying to impeach me by falsely accusing me of doing what Joe Biden has admitted he actually did. ..."
"... This is nothing more than an illegal, partisan attempted coup that will, based on recent sentiment, badly fail at the voting booth. You are not just after me, as President, you are after the entire Republican Party. But because of this colossal injustice, our party is more united than it has ever been before. History will judge you harshly as you proceed with this impeachment charade. Your legacy will be that of turning the House of Representatives from a revered legislative body into a Star Chamber of partisan persecution. ..."
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Speaker of the House of Representatives
Washington, D.C. 20515
Dear Madam Speaker:
I write to express my strongest and most powerful protest against the partisan impeachment crusade being pursued by the Democrats
in the House of Representatives. This impeachment represents an unprecedented and unconstitutional abuse of power by Democrat Lawmakers,
unequaled in nearly two and a half centuries of American legislative history.
The Articles of Impeachment introduced by the House Judiciary Committee are not recognizable under any standard of Constitutional
theory, interpretation, or jurisprudence. They include no crimes, no misdemeanors, and no offenses whatsoever. You have cheapened
the importance of the very ugly word, impeachment!
By proceeding with your invalid impeachment, you are violating your oaths of office, you are breaking your allegiance to the Constitution,
and you are declaring open war on American Democracy. You dare to invoke the Founding Fathers in pursuit of this election-nullification
scheme -- yet your spiteful actions display unfettered contempt for America's founding and your egregious conduct threatens to destroy
that which our Founders pledged their very lives to build. Even worse than offending the Founding Fathers, you are offending Americans
of faith by continually saying "I pray for the President," when you know this statement is not true, unless it is meant in a negative
sense. It is a terrible thing you are doing, but you will have to live with it, not I!
Your first claim, "Abuse of Power," is a completely disingenuous, meritless, and baseless invention of your imagination. You know
that I had a totally innocent conversation with the President of Ukraine. I then had a second conversation that has been misquoted,
mischaracterized, and fraudulently misrepresented. Fortunately, there was a transcript of the conversation taken, and you know from
the transcript (which was immediately made available) that the paragraph in question was perfect. I said to President Zelensky: "I
would like you to do us a favor, though, because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it." I said do
us a favor, not me , and our country , not a campaign. I then mentioned the Attorney General of the United States.
Every time I talk with a foreign leader, I put America's interests first, just as I did with President Zelensky.
You are turning a policy disagreement between two branches of government into an impeachable offense -- it is no more legitimate
than the Executive Branch charging members of Congress with crimes for the lawful exercise of legislative power.
You know full well that Vice President Biden used his office and $1 billion dollars of U.S. aid money to coerce Ukraine into firing
the prosecutor who was digging into the company paying his son millions of dollars. You know this because Biden bragged about it
on video. Biden openly stated: "I said, 'I'm telling you, you're not getting the billion dollars' I looked at them and said: 'I'm
leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' Well, son of a bitch. He got fired." Even Joe
Biden admitted just days ago in an interview with NPR that it "looked bad." Now you are trying to impeach me by falsely accusing
me of doing what Joe Biden has admitted he actually did.
President Zelensky has repeatedly declared that I did nothing wrong, and that there was No Pressure. He further emphasized that
it was a "good phone call," that "I don't feel pressure," and explicitly stressed that "nobody pushed me." The Ukrainian Foreign
Minister stated very clearly: "I have never seen a direct link between investigations and security assistance." He also said there
was "No Pressure." Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, a supporter of Ukraine who met privately with President Zelensky, has said:
"At no time during this meeting was there any mention by Zelensky or any Ukrainian that they were feeling pressure to do anything
in return for the military aid." Many meetings have been held between representatives of Ukraine and our country. Never once did
Ukraine complain about pressure being applied -- not once! Ambassador Sondland testified that I told him: "No quid pro quo. I want
nothing. I want nothing. I want President Zelensky to do the right thing, do what he ran on."
The second claim, so-called "Obstruction of Congress," is preposterous and dangerous. House Democrats are trying to impeach the
duly elected President of the United States for asserting Constitutionally based privileges that have been asserted on a bipartisan
basis by administrations of both political parties throughout our Nation's history. Under that standard, every American president
would have been impeached many times over. As liberal law professor Jonathan Turley warned when addressing Congressional Democrats:
"I can't emphasize this enough if you impeach a president, if you make a high crime and misdemeanor out of going to the courts, it
is an abuse of power. It's your abuse of power. You're doing precisely what you're criticizing the President for doing."
Everyone, you included, knows what is really happening. Your chosen candidate lost the election in 2016, in an Electoral College
landslide (306-227), and you and your party have never recovered from this defeat. You have developed a full-fledged case of what
many in the media call Trump Derangement Syndrome and sadly, you will never get over it! You are unwilling and unable to accept the
verdict issued at the ballot box during the great Election of 2016. So you have spent three straight years attempting to overturn
the will of the American people and nullify their votes. You view democracy as your enemy!
Speaker Pelosi, you admitted just last week at a public forum that your party's impeachment effort has been going on for "two
and a half years," long before you ever heard about a phone call with Ukraine. Nineteen minutes after I took the oath of office,
the Washington Post published a story headlined, "The Campaign to Impeach President Trump Has Begun." Less than three months
after my inauguration, Representative Maxine Waters stated, "I'm going to fight every day until he's impeached." House Democrats
introduced the first impeachment resolution against me within months of my inauguration, for what will be regarded as one of our
country's best decisions, the firing of James Comey (see Inspector General Reports) -- who the world now knows is one of the dirtiest
cops our Nation has ever seen. A ranting and raving Congresswoman, Rashida Tlaib, declared just hours after she was sworn into office,
"We're gonna go in there and we're gonna impeach the motherf****r." Representative Al Green said in May, "I'm concerned that if we
don't impeach this president, he will get re-elected." Again, you and your allies said, and did, all of these things long before
you ever heard of President Zelensky or anything related to Ukraine. As you know very well, this impeachment drive has nothing to
do with Ukraine, or the totally appropriate conversation I had with its new president. It only has to do with your attempt to undo
the election of 2016 and steal the election of 2020!
Congressman Adam Schiff cheated and lied all the way up to the present day, even going so far as to fraudulently make up, out
of thin air, my conversation with President Zelensky of Ukraine and read this fantasy language to Congress as though it were said
by me. His shameless lies and deceptions, dating all the way back to the Russia Hoax, is one of the main reasons we are here today.
You and your party are desperate to distract from America's extraordinary economy, incredible jobs boom, record stock market,
soaring confidence, and flourishing citizens. Your party simply cannot compete with our record: 7 million new jobs; the lowest-ever
unemployment for African Americans, Hispanic Americans, and Asian Americans; a rebuilt military; a completely reformed VA with Choice
and Accountability for our great veterans; more than 170 new federal judges and two Supreme Court Justices; historic tax and regulation
cuts; the elimination of the individual mandate; the first decline in prescription drug prices in half a century; the first new branch
of the United States Military since 1947, the Space Force; strong protection of the Second Amendment; criminal justice reform; a
defeated ISIS caliphate and the killing of the world's number one terrorist leader, al-Baghdadi; the replacement of the disastrous
NAFTA trade deal with the wonderful USMCA (Mexico and Canada); a breakthrough Phase One trade deal with China; massive new trade
deals with Japan and South Korea; withdrawal from the terrible Iran Nuclear Deal; cancellation of the unfair and costly Paris Climate
Accord; becoming the world's top energy producer; recognition of Israel's capital, opening the American Embassy in Jerusalem, and
recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights; a colossal reduction in illegal border crossings, the ending of Catch-and-Release,
and the building of the Southern Border Wall -- and that is just the beginning, there is so much more. You cannot defend your extreme
policies -- open borders, mass migration, high crime, crippling taxes, socialized healthcare, destruction of American energy, late-term
taxpayer-funded abortion, elimination of the Second Amendment, radical far-left theories of law and justice, and constant partisan
obstruction of both common sense and common good.
There is nothing I would rather do than stop referring to your party as the Do-Nothing Democrats. Unfortunately, I don't know
that you will ever give me a chance to do so.
After three years of unfair and unwarranted investigations, 45 million dollars spent, 18 angry Democrat prosecutors, the entire
force of the FBI, headed by leadership now proven to be totally incompetent and corrupt, you have found NOTHING! Few people in high
position could have endured or passed this test. You do not know, nor do you care, the great damage and hurt you have inflicted upon
wonderful and loving members of my family. You conducted a fake investigation upon the democratically elected President of the United
States, and you are doing it yet again.
There are not many people who could have taken the punishment inflicted during this period of time, and yet done so much for the
success of America and its citizens. But instead of putting our country first, you have decided to disgrace our country still further.
You completely failed with the Mueller report because there was nothing to find, so you decided to take the next hoax that came along,
the phone call with Ukraine -- even though it was a perfect call. And by the way, when I speak to foreign countries, there are many
people, with permission, listening to the call on both sides of the conversation.
You are the ones interfering in America's elections. You are the ones subverting America's Democracy. You are the ones Obstructing
Justice. You are the ones bringing pain and suffering to our Republic for your own selfish personal, political, and partisan gain.
Before the Impeachment Hoax, it was the Russian Witch Hunt. Against all evidence, and regardless of the truth, you and your deputies
claimed that my campaign colluded with the Russians -- a grave, malicious, and slanderous lie, a falsehood like no other. You forced
our Nation through turmoil and torment over a wholly fabricated story, illegally purchased from a foreign spy by Hillary Clinton
and the DNC in order to assault our democracy. Yet, when the monstrous lie was debunked and this Democrat conspiracy dissolved into
dust, you did not apologize. You did not recant. You did not ask to be forgiven. You showed no remorse, no capacity for self-reflection.
Instead, you pursued your next libelous and vicious crusade -- you engineered an attempt to frame and defame an innocent person.
All of this was motivated by personal political calculation. Your Speakership and your party are held hostage by your most deranged
and radical representatives of the far left. Each one of your members lives in fear of a socialist primary challenger -- this is
what is driving impeachment. Look at Congressman Nadler's challenger. Look at yourself and others. Do not take our country down with
your party.
If you truly cared about freedom and liberty for our Nation, then you would be devoting your vast investigative resources to exposing
the full truth concerning the FBI's horrifying abuses of power before, during, and after the 2016 election -- including the use of
spies against my campaign, the submission of false evidence to a FISA court, and the concealment of exculpatory evidence in order
to frame the innocent. The FBI has great and honorable people, but the leadership was inept and corrupt. I would think that you would
personally be appalled by these revelations, because in your press conference the day you announced impeachment, you tied the impeachment
effort directly to the completely discredited Russia Hoax, declaring twice that "all roads lead to Putin," when you know that is
an abject lie. I have been far tougher on Russia than President Obama ever even thought to be.
Any member of Congress who votes in support of impeachment -- against every shred of truth, fact, evidence, and legal principle
-- is showing how deeply they revile the voters and how truly they detest America's Constitutional order. Our Founders feared the
tribalization of partisan politics, and you are bringing their worst fears to life.
Worse still, I have been deprived of basic Constitutional Due Process from the beginning of this impeachment scam right up until
the present. I have been denied the most fundamental rights afforded by the Constitution, including the right to present evidence,
to have my own counsel present, to confront accusers, and to call and cross-examine witnesses, like the so-called whistleblower who
started this entire hoax with a false report of the phone call that bears no relationship to the actual phone call that was made.
Once I presented the transcribed call, which surprised and shocked the fraudsters (they never thought that such evidence would be
presented), the so-called whistleblower, and the second whistleblower, disappeared because they got caught, their report was a fraud,
and they were no longer going to be made available to us. In other words, once the phone call was made public, your whole plot blew
up, but that didn't stop you from continuing.
More due process was afforded to those accused in the Salem Witch Trials.
You and others on your committees have long said impeachment must be bipartisan -- it is not. You said it was very divisive --
it certainly is, even far more than you ever thought possible -- and it will only get worse!
This is nothing more than an illegal, partisan attempted coup that will, based on recent sentiment, badly fail at the voting booth.
You are not just after me, as President, you are after the entire Republican Party. But because of this colossal injustice, our party
is more united than it has ever been before. History will judge you harshly as you proceed with this impeachment charade. Your legacy
will be that of turning the House of Representatives from a revered legislative body into a Star Chamber of partisan persecution.
Perhaps most insulting of all is your false display of solemnity. You apparently have so little respect for the American People
that you expect them to believe that you are approaching this impeachment somberly, reservedly, and reluctantly. No intelligent person
believes what you are saying. Since the moment I won the election, the Democrat Party has been possessed by Impeachment Fever. There
is no reticence. This is not a somber affair. You are making a mockery of impeachment and you are scarcely concealing your hatred
of me, of the Republican Party, and tens of millions of patriotic Americans. The voters are wise, and they are seeing straight through
this empty, hollow, and dangerous game you are playing.
I have no doubt the American people will hold you and the Democrats fully responsible in the upcoming 2020 election. They will
not soon forgive your perversion of justice and abuse of power.
There is far too much that needs to be done to improve the lives of our citizens. It is time for you and the highly partisan Democrats
in Congress to immediately cease this impeachment fantasy and get back to work for the American People. While I have no expectation
that you will do so, I write this letter to you for the purpose of history and to put my thoughts on a permanent and indelible record.
One hundred years from now, when people look back at this affair, I want them to understand it, and learn from it, so that it
can never happen to another President again.
Sincerely yours,
DONALD J. TRUMP
President of the United States of America
cc: United States Senate
United States House of Representatives
"... Surely the only reason for doing this is to obscure and hide the Democratic Party's involvement with (and meddling in) Ukrainian politics and Ukrainian political issues through people like Alexandra Chalupa and her sisters Andrea and Irena, and Dmitri Alperovich and his company Crowdstrike that looked after the DNC's cyber-security. ..."
It would seem that the Democrats need this impeachment circus over and done with before the
end of 2019 so they can concentrate on cleaning up Joe Biden as their Presidential candidate
and pretend he had no history before April 2019 when Volodymyr Zelensky became President of
Ukraine. That must explain their strange and shaky choice of issue on which to try to impeach
Donald Trump: so that during the campaign season,
Biden's past and his son having been on the
Board of Directors of a shady energy company (with a licence to explore and drill for oil in
an area of eastern Ukraine not far from where a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet was shot down
in 2014) can be kept off-limits to the MSM and anyone who dares to challenge Biden on his
record. If the President of the United States can be punished for pursuing the Bidens on
their record of corruption, then that alone should (in theory) stop anyone else from pursuing
them.
There are so many other issues on which to impeach Trump but the issue of Joe Biden's
conflict of interest regarding his son's involvement in Burisma Holdings and eastern Ukraine
generally is the weakest and the oddest.
Surely the only reason for doing this is to obscure
and hide the Democratic Party's involvement with (and meddling in) Ukrainian politics and
Ukrainian political issues through people like Alexandra Chalupa and her sisters Andrea and
Irena, and Dmitri Alperovich and his company Crowdstrike that looked after the DNC's
cyber-security.
My apologies if this has been posted before, but here is a news conference broadcast by
Interfax a few days ago detailing a joint French-Ukrainian journalistic investigation into a
huge money laundering scheme using various shadow banking organizations in Austria and
Switzerland, benefiting Clinton friendly Ukrainian oligarchs and of course the Clinton
Foundation.
The link is short enough to not require re-formatting:
Forgive me for the somewhat redundant post, and again I hope this is not a waste of anyone's
time, but this is the source of the Interfax report I posted just above currently at #56. It
is relevant to the Ukrainegate impeachment fiasco.
The U.S. and lapdog EU/UK media will not touch this with a 10 foot pole.
KYIV. Dec 17 (Interfax-Ukraine) – Ukraine and the United States should investigate
the transfer of $29 million by businessman Victor Pinchuk from Ukraine to the Clinton
Foundation, Ukrainian Member of Parliament (independent) Andriy Derkach has said. According
to him, the investigation should check and establish how the Pinchuk Foundation's
activities were funded; it, among other projects, made a contribution of $29 million to the
Clinton Foundation. "Yesterday, Ukrainian law enforcement agencies registered criminal
proceeding number 12019000000001138. As part of this proceeding, I provided facts that
should be verified and established by the investigation. Establishing these facts will also
help the American side to conduct its own investigation and establish the origin of the
money received by [Hillary] Clinton," Derkach said at a press conferences at
Interfax-Ukraine in Kyiv on Tuesday, December 17.
According to him, it was the independent French online publication Mediapart that first
drew attention to the money withdrawal scheme from Ukraine and Pinchuk's financing of the
Clinton Foundation.
"The general scheme is as follows. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) lent money to
Ukraine in 2015. The same year, Victor Pinchuk's Credit Dnepr [Bank] received UAH 357
million in a National Bank stabilization loan from the IMF's disbursement. Delta Bank was
given a total of UAH 5.110 billion in loans. The banks siphoned the money through Austria's
Meinl Bank into offshore accounts, and further into [the accounts of] the Pinchuk
Foundation. The money siphoning scam was confirmed by a May 2016 ruling by [Kyiv's]
Pechersky court. The total damage from this scam involving other banks is estimated at $800
million. The Pinchuk Foundation transferred $29 million to the Foundation of Clinton, a
future U.S. presidential candidate from the Democratic Party," Derkach said.
So all other presidents who claimed privilege were actually obstructing Congress and were
subject to impeachment as will be all future presidents who claim privilege. Burisma, a
Ukrainian company, can not be investigated because a Biden is on the board. Hunter has a very
lucrative future ahead of him as an insurance against investigation.
The Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Bureau is a U.S. creation. It is therefore not astonishing to
find that it is corrupt.
@kooleksiy 16:29 UTC
· Dec 13, 2019
Director of Ukraine's National Anti-corruption Bureau Sytnyk will pay a ~$140 fine for
"violation of restrictions on accepting gifts" [valued at ~$1 thousand in his case] - his
lawyer stated today after Appellate Court ruling @dw_ukrainian reports
www.dw.com/uk/
"A botched assassination attempt against Ukrainian politician and businessman Vyacheslav
Sobolev has resulted in the death of his three-year-old son, Alexander.
"While Sobolev and his wife were leaving his high-end restaurant "Mario" in Kiev this past
Sunday, right-wing thugs opened fire on Sobolev's Range Rover, missing him but hitting his
son who was seated in the back of the vehicle. The three-year-old died on the way to the
hospital.
"Police later apprehended two men who had fled the scene in a black Lexus sedan, Oleksiy
Semenov, 19, and Andrei Lavrega, 20. Both are veterans of the war in Donbass in eastern
Ukraine where they served as members of the fascist Right Sector's paramilitary formation
until June of this year.
"The Right Sector was instrumental in the US- and EU-backed, fascist-led coup in February
2014 that toppled the Yanukovitch government and replaced it with a pro-Western and
anti-Russian regime. Since then, the Right Sector has been among the far-right forces that
have been heavily involved in the war against Russian-backed separatists in East Ukraine.
"As is usual when members of neo-Nazi groups carry out political attacks, the Right Sector
and their former battalion commander fraudulently attempted to distance themselves from
Lavrega and Semenov, claiming they had lost contact with them since they left Ukraine's armed
forces in June. These claims are not credible.
"Lavrega, who has been identified as the principal shooter in the killing, has been a
member of the Right Sector for at least half a decade. He had participated in the Maidan
movement of 2014 as a member of the Right Sector and perfected his shooting skills as a
sniper killing separatist soldiers in eastern Ukraine. According to his Right Sector
battalion commander, Andrei Herhert, Lavrega -- also known as "Quiet" -- was "one of the best
snipers in the war" and "very ideological."
"As a thanks for his service to the right-wing Kiev government, Lavrega received a
military decoration from former President Petro Poroshenko for "courage" just last year, in
October of 2018." ..........
"Whoever is ultimately responsible for ordering this political assassination and the
murder of the three-year-old boy, it is clear that the same far-right forces that were
instrumental in the coup in February 2014 and the civil war are now being employed to carry
out political assassinations by the Ukrainian oligarchy.
"Since the 2014 coup, the number of targeted political assassinations by right-wing
neo-Nazi groups like C14 and the Right Sector has skyrocketed. At least 15 people have been
murdered in such hit jobs by the far right since 2014. Among them was the well-known
Belarusian journalist Pavel Sheremet and the politician Kateryna Handziuk, who was killed in
a horrific acid attack by right-wing thugs last year.
"In virtually all these cases, the perpetrators have been protected from serious legal
prosecution. One of the murderers of Handziuk received a barely three-year prison sentence. A
critical role in shielding the neo-Nazis is played by Ukraine's Ministry of Internal Affairs'
Arsen Avakov, who controls the country's police force and possesses well-known ties to
Ukraine's most notorious fascist militia, the Azov Battalion.
"Avakov is one of the few members of the previous Poroshenko government that have remained
in the current Cabinet of Ministers under President Volodmyr Zelensky. He was recently
praised by former US ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch while testifying before the
House of Representatives regarding the Trump impeachment investigation (see also: "The
impeachment crisis and American imperialism").
"President Zelensky, who was elected in April this year on the basis of promises that he
would bring an end to the widely despised civil war in eastern Ukraine that has claimed the
lives of over 13,000 people, has maintained a conspicuous silence on this latest political
assassination attempt by the far right. Instead, the day after the murder, he posted a
message on Facebook to honor two Ukrainian soldiers who were killed while fighting in eastern
Ukraine this past weekend."
The rest of the story can be found at the WSWS https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/07/ukra-d06.html
The Right Sector links with the former US Ambassador-Democratic heroine- are topical.
Thank you for that insight. I cannot see how Zelensky will manage the Nazi Ukrainians
short of a virtual civil war against one western district. The USA will foment a major
insurrection to destroy him if he does a deal with Gazprom. Your suggestion as to where those
issues are discussed would be welcome.
A User #72
Thank you and well said. The eurocentric kabuki does mesmerise the information providers.
I too seek escape from that dominance and spent a good time today researching the Power of
Siberia implications and issues of South America. The global assault on all things African is
a matter of deep despair for me and I feel totally powerless to reverse the relentless
assault on their world.
If this exchange wasn't a set-up then I'll eat my MAGA hat*.
This bubbling "fat guy" comes with FOX News talking points and Joe Biden mops the floor
with him. Not only denouncing the question, but insulting the questioner. I like the majestic
(IMO pre-arranged) touch: "let him talk". Oh so respectful - yet seconds later he insults the
questioner!! LOL.
Anyone that dares to ask about Hunter Biden after this will be dismissed by Biden who will
say that the question's been asked and answered and he's being hounded by Trump
partisans.
Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden acknowledged it "may have looked bad" for his
son to serve on the board of foreign companies, but the former vice president stood firm that
his son did nothing wrong.
... ... ...
When asked by Telemundo if it was wrong -- even if legal -- for Hunter Biden
to take the board seat, Joe Biden doubled down on defending his son.
"There's nothing asserted that he did anything that was illegal," Joe Biden said. "Here's
what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to -- and I know you're not intending to do this --
play the game to take the eye off the culprit."
Denis Datsyuk, a native of the Vinnytsia region, then a student of Kiev Polytechnic.
On Maidan Datsyuk joined the 38th group of a hundred and stood almost to the end, but he is
now grateful to his wife for pulling him off Maidan on the last day of the bloody events of
February. "Thanks to her, I did not join the ranks of the heavenly hundred ."
"Maidan was for nothing. I am ashamed to have participated in it."
In his opinion, Maidan was too idealised, and it was a long way from what it really was.
When asked why he went to Maidan six years ago, Datsyuk ironically said that he has "a tiny
brain".
"What do we have as a result? Minus Crimea and minus Donbass. The growth of the
right-wing movement and the general radicalisation of society. Thousands of young people with
post-war traumatised psyche. The economy has collapsed, and domestic and foreign politics are
not even politics. Even our masters started to chuckle at us, I mean the United States. In
fact, they started this Maidan – for the sake of war with Russia. We have not met US
expectations. We have a very low level of managers, we couldn't even ignite the war in Donbass
the way they needed it. Our eastern neighbour is not responding as expected. This is not what
our Western partners hoped for. That's why we're almost a played card. Moreover, given Trump's
foreign policy, we're out of the frame now. He withdraws competent personnel, including from
Ukraine. And we will be left only with our fools. I don't foresee anything good."
Six years ago Denis joined " Right Sector ", where he quickly became
disappointed.
"I don't want anything to do with criminals. There they are more than my subjective
permissible norm," acknowledges Datsyuk. "At the bottom there are normal lads, and the
top is an abomination under the protection of the SBU".
Concerning the news that Zelensky wants to meet him and his former Maidan comrades, Datsyuk
reacted with a grin. He doesn't think much of Zelensky.
"This is not a competent manager. I don't expect anything good from him. Although I
believe he has good intentions and he wants the best for Ukraine. He could have a chance if he
had a competent team with the understanding of how complex social supersystems are managed. But
unfortunately, neither is yet materialized.
I feel sorry for him. He'll either give up or eat it. I can only imagine what a big job
it is to deal with everything, when you've never been that close with state (local, regional)
affairs. It's just a very difficult job. And I do not think that he can do it, especially in
the environment of disinformation that, in my opinion, is created around him," shares the
former Maidanist.
Datsyuk says that he did not think to go abroad, although he does not see prospects in
Ukraine. He also doesn't want to go into politics, like many Maidanists.
"I don't think emigration is a good option. I have a good salary. I would like to work
for the benefit of the Motherland, but unfortunately, here everything goes to hell and there
are no such opportunities".
If Biden was corrupt as hell, why not to coordinate with President administration and his
personal lawyer about this matter. Biden status as a Democratic contender does not absolve him
from criminal liability under Foreign Corrupt Practices
Act
The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq.
("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and
entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining
business.
Contained within a 300-page report on the Democrats' impeachment investigation was a
startling admission; House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA) had obtained
call records between Rep. Devin Nunes, Rudy Giuliani, Ukraine intermediary Lev Parnas,
and journalist John Solomon .
In response, House Minority Whip Steve Scalise (R-LA) said "It
raises a lot of serious questions," before demanding to know what Schiff was up to.
" I want to know all the people Adam Schiff is spying on ," Schiff told the Washington Examiner . "Are there other members of Congress that he is spying on,
and what justification does he have? He needs to be held accountable and explain what he's
doing, going after journalists, going after members of Congress, instead of doing his job."
The records showed calls between Nunes and President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy
Giuliani, and calls between Nunes and Lev Parnas , a Giuliani associate now under indictment
for funneling foreign money to U.S. political candidates.
Schiff said the calls raise questions about whether Nunes was involved in what Democrats
believe was a scheme to undermine Trump's political rival, former Vice President Joe Biden. -
Washington Examiner
On Tuesday, Schiff said "I find it deeply concerning at a time when the president of the
United States was using the power of his office to dig up dirt on a political rival, that there
may be evidence of members of Congress complicit in that activity ."
Nunes says he doesn't recall speaking with Parnas, and that any discussions with Giuliani
would have likely revolved around the Mueller report.
"I remember talking to Rudy Giuliani, and we were actually laughing about how Mueller bombed
out," Nunes told Fox News on Tuesday. Democrats claim that the Nunes call records
reveal that he's been coordinating with the Trump administration and Giuliani to go after
former Vice President Joe Biden, who has been credibly accused of corruption in Ukraine
involving his son Hunter.
Democrats have been critical of Nunes since his tenure as the House Intelligence Committee
chairman from 2017 to 2019. During that time, Nunes made a trip to the White House to inform
Trump his transition meeting messages were intercepted by U.S. intelligence.
"I always felt that Mr. Nunes was a dividing character," Democratic Rep. Bill Pascrell of
New Jersey told the Washington Examiner . "We know of his meetings with the president,
which he had every right to do by the way. But in the peculiar position he was in, it was
obvious where he was getting his orders and how he proceeded. And I think he's going to get
what's coming to him."
Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said "there are serious questions" about the calls between
Nunes and Giuliani and Parnas. He said Democrats "need to look at them and see what action
ought to be taken, if any."
Hoyer declined to say whether it would be in the form of a House ethics investigation or a
punitive House floor measure.
"I want to have input from other people before I opine on what we ought to be doing. I
will be doing that," he said. - Washington Examiner
The call record produced by House Democrats also reveal calls in late April between Lev
Parnas and journalist John Solomon, a previous columnist for The Hill who has broken
several bombshell stories regarding the Russia investigation and the Bidens.
"I'm interested in why he was doing this," said Scalise of Schiff. "And under what
authority."
"The Ukrainian Office of the Prosecutor General has drawn up an indictment against the
owner of the Burisma Holdings energy company, ex-Ecology Minister Nikolai Zlochevsky, that
contains information that the son of former US Vice President Joe Biden, Hunter, as a Burisma
board member along with his partners, received $16.5 million for their services, Ukrainian
Verkhovna Rada MP from the ruling Servant of the People party Alexander Dubinsky told a press
conference on Wednesday, citing the investigation's materials. According to him, the money
came from duplicitous criminal activity."
The
corruption in ukraine is off the charts.
The article discusses land privatization but reveals a truly diabolical
purpose for the $7.4 billion that was stolen from ukraine.
It would be amusing if it wasn't so pathetic. But Schiff has close ties to a notorious Ukrainian arms dealer. Schiff was also
a frequent recipient of campaign cash from meth dealer and Hillary Clinton donor Ed Buck. Buck is the LA Democrat with a penchant
for shooting up homeless black men with meth and having sex with them. He allegedly killed at least two of them and is currently
being charged with two counts of murder. Schiff has yet to disavow him and return his repeated donations.
Paul Pelosi has his own Ukrainian Gas Company
Pelosi's own son Paul Pelosi Jr had his own connection as an officer with a Ukrainian natural gas company. Pelosi actually used his
mother, Speaker Pelosi, in a promotional video for the company. Pelosi Jr. earlier had served as an executive just under Mike Mozilla
with Countrywide during the height of the mortgage crisis of 2008. Countrywide being one of the worse abusers in the mortgage debacle
that almost destroyed America's, and the world's, economy.
Paul Pelosi Jr. made a fortune, walking away unscathed. This before starting a solar energy company to take advantage of huge
Federal Government loan guarantees. Another money windfall for Pelosi, who walked away with a fortune when that company went bankrupt.
Leaving the Federal Government and the taxpayers to make up for the losses. Nevada Senator Harry Reid's son Rory was involved in
much the same scheme. Reid's children, all lobbyists, got rich off fees and loan guarantees from solar companies with no sufficient
market underpinnings. Both companies went belly up, leaving the Federal Government and the taxpayers holding the bag.
Hunter Biden in China
But it is Hunter Biden's relationship with both China and Ukraine that illustrates the corrupt dealings of the Biden family business.
Joe Biden started sucking up to China in 2012 when he toured the country with then-Vice President Xi Jinping. He then toured America
with Xi as his guest. In 2013 he went to China and took Hunter along on Air Force II. Two weeks later Hunter incorporated an investment
firm with John Kerry's stepson, Christopher Heinz, and Whitey Bulger's nephew. Shortly thereafter they received $1.5 billion dollars
for the fund to invest in Chinese research companies.
https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-35/html/container.html#xpc=sf-gdn-exp-2&p=https%3A//www.commdiginews.com https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/safeframe/1-0-35/html/container.html#xpc=sf-gdn-exp-2&p=https%3A//www.commdiginews.com
Duel use technologies approved for export by Biden and Kerry
One of the companies they invested in was a Chinese arms company that imported technologies with dual-use purposes. The investment
required the approval of both the White House and State Department. It should be little surprise that Secretary of State John Kerry
and Vice President Biden saw to it that the deal went through.
The Russia Hoax: James Clapper throws Barack Obama under the busOther investments of the Biden Heinz Bulger fund included a Chinese company that invested in AI technologies like facial recognition.
Again duel use technologies, which will be incorporated into the modern police surveillance state that China has become. Thanks to
Hunter and Joe Biden, and Christopher Heinz and John Kerry.
Kerry and Biden: Burisma and Ukraine
The Kerry, Biden connection continues in Ukraine, though with a twist. Hunter Biden's dealings in Ukraine were so alarming to Christopher
Heinz that he dissolved his working partnership with Hunter Biden because of it. It was too crooked. Too obvious. Too corrupt, even
for Christopher Heinz. But John Kerry was still tied to it. In spades. The origins of the Hunter Biden deal with Burisma dates back
to 2014. Steve Hilton of Fox News laid out the timeline of events brilliantly last Sunday. As well as the ties between Burisma, John
Kerry, and a handful of Democrat Senators who supported a "cash for gas" initiative to purchase $50 million in natural gas from Ukraine.
https://video.foxnews.com/v/video-embed.html?video_id=6094578904001
Devon Archer and Joe Biden: A curious series of events
On April 16, 2014, Burisma board member and Hunter Biden friend Devon Archer meets with Joe Biden to discuss Ukrainian natural gas.
On April 18th Hunter Biden forms the holding company, Rosemont Seneca, that will be the conduit for Burisma's money. Three days later,
on April 21st, Joe Biden announces the program of US cash for Ukrainian gas, jumpstarting the initiative.
The Coup against Trump: Is John Brennan a Russian Agent?Coincidence? Certainly not. Then it gets even more interesting. Burisma appoints Hunter Biden to its Board of Directors. Even
though he has no experience in oil or gas, or Ukraine, and doesn't speak Ukrainian. It doesn't matter. He is Joe Biden's son. The
fix is in. Devon Archer (far left) is pictured with Joe and Hunter Biden. (Screenshot from Twitter) Burisma pays Rosemont Seneca
$186,000 per month, which Hunter Biden splits with Devon Archer. That's $98,000 apiece, every month. Well more than the $50,000 a
month figure bandied about by the media. At the same time, Burisma pays Hunter Biden's law firm a $300,000 retainer to handle legal
affairs.
Burisma, Kerry, and David Leiter's ML Strategies
Then Burisma hires John Kerry's former Chief of Staff David Leiter to conduct lobbying on behalf of Burisma and Ukrainian natural
gas. It pays Leiter's consulting group, ML Strategies, $90,000. Leiter makes $3,000 contributions, in three $1,000 payments, to Democrat
Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey and New Hampshire Senator Jean Shaheen. Shaheen and Markey write a letter to President Obama supporting
a "cash for gas" relationship with Ukraine, and calling for an expansion of Ukrainian natural gas exploration. Burisma releases a
press release praising Markey and Shaheen's letter. Leiter also makes three $1000 contributions to Connecticut Senator Richard Blumenthal.
Blumenthal immediately announces his support for the Ukrainian "cash for gas" initiative. (
Steve Hilton: The
real Ukraine scandal is US cash for gas -- It involves the Bidens and a growing list of Dems )
Joe Biden work on behalf of ML Strategies
Shortly thereafter Joe Biden makes his famous trip to Ukraine where he demands the firing of the Ukrainian prosecutor Victor Shokin,
who is looking into Burisma Holdings and Hunter Biden.
AG William Barr and Atty. Durham closing in on the Obama, Brennan coup plottersAfter the prosecutor is fired Hunter Biden's lawyers file a brief with the new prosecutor in Ukraine, currying favor, and saying
explicitly that the charges of corruption against Shokin were disinformation planted by Western governments. https://www.youtube.com/embed/KCF9My1vBP4
Hunter Biden continues to receive payments from Burisma until April 2019, one month before Joe Biden announces his run for the Presidency.
He has received close to $6 million dollars thus far. There are reports that Rosemont Seneca received an additional $900,000 payment
intended for Joe Biden himself. https://www.youtube.com/embed/KCF9My1vBP4 Hunter Biden continues to receive payments from Burisma
until April 2019, one month before Joe Biden announces his run for the Presidency. He has received close to $6 million dollars thus
far. There are reports that Rosemont Seneca received an additional $900,000 payment intended for Joe Biden himself. Hunter Biden
continues to receive payments from Burisma until April 2019, one month before Joe Biden announces his run for the Presidency. He
has received close to $6 million dollars thus far. There are reports that Rosemont Seneca received an additional $900,000 payment
intended for Joe Biden himself.
Hunter and Joe Biden's admission of consciousness of guilt
This week Hunter Biden stepped down from the board of the Chinese holding company but retained his 10% equity investment. The owners
of the company have yet to state what exactly Hunter Biden's duties were. The same could be said of Burisma. Joe Biden says he never
discussed his son's business affairs. Hunter says otherwise, in an interview with the New Yorker. Biden's response to his son's Burisma
news. "I hope you know what you are doing". Not exactly an endorsement. Certainly a recognition that Joe Biden knew what Hunter was
up to. And he knew it stank to high heaven. Joe Biden announced yesterday that his son will have no dealings with any government
if he is elected President. This begs the question. If it is improper if Biden is President, then it was improper when Biden was
Vice President. Rather than clearing Biden and his son, it is proof of consciousness of guilt, and acknowledgment of impropriety.
" Wasn't it inappropriate for someone like you in the middle of all this to have your son collecting money from this big credit
card company while you were on the floor protecting its interests?"
Brokaw sets forth the case against Biden
"That's a reference to your son being hired right out of law school by a big company here in Delaware that's in the credit card
business, MBNA. He got about $100,000 a year, as I recall. You received $214,000 in campaign contributions from the company and from
its employees. At the same time, you were fighting for a bankruptcy bill that MBNA really wanted to get passed through the Senate
making it much tougher for everyone to file bankruptcy. Senator Obama was opposed to the bill. Among other things, you couldn't in
fact claim that you had a problem because of big medical bills."
"You voted against an amendment that would call for a warning on predatory lending. You also opposed efforts to strengthen the
protection of people in bankruptcy. This is an issue that you've heard about before. Your son was working for the company at the
same time. In retrospect, wasn't it inappropriate for someone like you in the middle of all this to have your son collecting money
from the big credit card company while you were on the floor protecting its interests?"
Biden response, as with all questions about Burisma: "Absolutely not!"
James Biden and the Obama billion-dollar housing contract
Joe Biden's brother James has been feeding at the trough as well, securing a $1.2 billion dollar contract with the Pentagon, while
his brother was Vice President, to build housing in Iraq. James Biden had no experience in construction or building houses, even
though he landed a contract that would make Halliburton and Dick Cheney turn green. (
Joe Biden's Family Has Been Getting Rich off His Political Career for Decades – PJ Media )
Hillary Clinton and the corrupt Clinton Foundation
Then there is Hillary Clinton's well-documented history of graft, pay to play, and unbridled corruption. The Uranium One scam. The
Clinton Foundation slush fund. Stealing billions of dollars from Haiti by running all aid through the Clinton Foundation. Spending
millions on Chelsea's wedding, all paid for by the Clinton Foundation.
FISA
Court exposes Obama's abuse of NSA to spy on AmericansIn 2016 Ukrainian donors gave more
money to the Clinton Foundation than any other country. Roughy $10 million dollars. More than Saudi Arabia ($7.3 Million). Of
course this pales in comparison to the $240 million the Clinton Foundation received in the Uranium One scam. On a side note, the
person who delivered the Uranium One sample directly to the Russians in Moscow was none other than FBI Director Robert Mueller. So
many curious facts.
The Steele Dossier, the corrupt Ambassador Yovanovich
This doesn't even touch on the Steele Dossier and Sydney Blumenthal getting dirt on Paul Manafort and Donald Trump from Ukraine and
passing it on to the DNC, DOJ and FBI. It doesn't touch on the Clinton loving Ambassador Yovanovich working with George Soros and
Ukraine to manufacture dirt on Manafort and Trump and pass it on to the State Department and DNC.
Obama Brennan coup involved State Dept., DOD, DNI, DOJ, CIA and FBIOr the fact that when the Hunter Biden / Burisma investigation was shut down, so was the investigation the Soros group that worked
to find dirt on Trump. Or the recent revelation the Ambassador Yovanovich had a list of conservative American journalists illegally
spied on. Whether its political corruption. Or old fashioned self-enrichment. Barack Obama ran an administration where senior officials
were lining their pockets in Pay to Play schemes on a level that would make Richard Nixon blush.
Draining the swamp of Democrat corruption and abuse of power
At the same time, senior intelligence and Justice officials were spying on a major Presidential candidate. Laying the groundwork
for a rolling and ongoing coup against the duly elected sitting President of the United States, Donald Trump. That continues to
this day. The release of the IG Horowitz report next week on FISA abuse will demonstrate the abject corruption of the DOJ, FBI
and our intelligence agencies. William Barr and US Attorney John Durham have earth-shaking indictments in the works that will,
at long last, blow the lid off the Russia hoax. Exposing the coup plotters and bringing the final curtain to the Obama legacy.
Yet here we are in the midst of the current political impeachment crisis. The documented corruption and pay to play schemes at
the very top of the Obama team must now be revealed and exposed. Joe Biden and John Kerry are as corrupt and dangerous as Hillary
Clinton ever was. We don't have to take Joe Biden's word for anything. We already have his confession.
"... "This is the official statement from Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley is one of the biggest bank holdings in the USA. Here you can see a cash flow of Rosemont Seneca Boa company owned by Devon Archer, for a year and a half (from May 2014 to October 2016). According to the bank statement, starting from May 2014 to October 2015 Burisma company transferred to Rosemont company $4.817 million, and the latter transferred a payment amounted to $871,000 to the account of Biden," ..."
"... When Miss Vicki F*TheEU Nuland was scheming with the American ambassador to insert the American stooge "Yats" as she called him, into the leadership of the Ukraine, there was talk about how all the Ukraine gold was being moved to the US for "safekeeping". Does anyone know what happened to their gold reserves? ..."
"... The only future Ukraine has is an impoverished depopulated backwater, like the Baltics. A source of cheap labour and cheap prostitutes for the EU – the only thing Ukraine produces the EU wants. ..."
The Ukrainian Office of the Prosecutor General has drawn up an indictment against the owner of the Burisma Holdings energy
company, ex-Ecology Minister Nikolai Zlochevsky, that contains information that the son of former US Vice President Joe Biden,
Hunter, as a Burisma board member along with his partners, received $16.5 million for their services, Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada
MP from the ruling Servant of the People party Alexander Dubinsky told a press conference on Wednesday, citing the investigation's
materials. According to him, the money came from duplicitous criminal activity.
Another Rada member, Andreii Derkach, had earlier posted,
to Facebook, on November 11th, what he alleges to
be photos of bank statements and other financial records documenting the flows of money from Ukraine into the partnership that Joe
Biden's son Hunter Biden and his friend the Yale college roommate of John Kerry's stepson Christopher Hines, Devon Archer, had set
up.
The partnership, Rosemont Seneca Boa, is associated with their Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC.
The data on the veiled transfer of funds for lobbying activities personally to J. Biden were obtained during the investigation.
Money in the amount of over USD 900 thousand was transferred to the aforesaid Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, the resident company,
with an indication of 'Remuneration for consulting services' as payment details.
The person was identified and interviewed as
a witness in the course of the investigation, who has been personally engaged in holding transactions for laundering and legitimization
of funds in favor of M. Zlochevsky and the Bidens. Investigators possess original copies of the payment instruments and engineering
means, whereby the said bargains were performed.
Through making use of the political and economic leverages over new government authorities of Ukraine and intimidating them
with the issue of granting financial assistance to Ukraine, Joe Biden has actively promoted the closing of the criminal cases
against M. Zlochevsky and Burisma Group corporate executives.
Another document:
According to the data from the Financial Intelligence Unit of Latvia, Wirelogic Technology AS and Digitex Organization LLP paid
from July 2012 to December 2015 to Burisma Holdings Limited (Cyprus) account established with AS PrivatBank amounts of USD 14,665,982
+ EUR 366,015 and USD 1,964,375 accordingly 'as payments under the loan agreement.'
Consequently, the part of the aforesaid
funds was charged off in favor of Mr. Alan Apter (EUR 302,885), Mr. Aleksander Kwasniewski (EUR 1,150,000), Mr, Devon Archer and
Mr. Hunter Biden [no amounts specified for either].
A letter
is shown addressed to Derkach from "The Prosecutor Office of Ukraine," the "General Prosecutor Office of Ukraine," and signed
by the Prosecutor General Ruslan Ryaboshapka, dated 30 October 2019. It said:
As a result of the pre-trial investigation on 02.09.2019, the investigator decided to close the above mentioned criminal proceedings
on the basis of paragraph 2 of Part 1 of Art. 284 of the CPC of Ukraine in connection with the lack of corpus delicti [evidence
of a crime]. There are no grounds for re-entering information on the facts stated in your application" for "Pre-trial Investigations.
The Burisma cases would not go to trial.
Among the photos that Derkach showed in his article are a "CLIENT STATEMENT for the Period May 1-31 2015" from "Morgan Stanley
Private Wealth Management" showing, for example, that on "5/13," "Funds Transferred" by "WIRED FUNDS SENT" "BENE. ACCT. ROBERT [Hunter]
BIDEN" were "15,000.00".
Derkach says:
Shokin [the man Joe Biden had fired] has repeatedly called upon the NABU director Sitnik in the criminal proceedings on Burisma
case, but always got the run-arounds.
and asks:
Why was the NABU in such a hurry to close the cases of Burisma, Zlochevskiy and Biden, and for whom did they collect personal
data on Shokin?
Before noting that:
the moment when Shokin demanded from NABU to investigate facts of international corruption coincided with the arrival of US
Vice President Joe Biden to Ukraine. And $ 1 billion of loan guarantees that the United States had to provide Ukraine depended
on Biden.
He shows a time-line indicating that the turning-point to close down the investigation was "Biden's visit to Kyiv" occurring "December
7-8, 2015." On "June 3, 2016," was the "Signing by the Government of the United States and Ukraine of loan guarantee agreement [U.S.
taxpayers to take any loss] worth $1 billion."
Starting from May 2014 to October 2015 Burisma company transferred to Rosemont company $4.817 million, and the latter transferred
a payment amounted to $871,000 to the account of Hunter Biden, son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, reported MP Andriy
Derkach in a video blog on Facebook.
"This is the official statement from Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley is one of the biggest
bank holdings in the USA. Here you can see a cash flow of Rosemont Seneca Boa company owned by Devon Archer, for a year and a
half (from May 2014 to October 2016). According to the bank statement, starting from May 2014 to October 2015 Burisma company
transferred to Rosemont company $4.817 million, and the latter transferred a payment amounted to $871,000 to the account of Biden,"
said Derkach adding an official statement from Morgan Stanley.
He noted that in order to help the investigation, he made public new documents on international corruption, which were transferred
to him by investigative journalists in 11 criminal proceedings.
Derkach reminded that in total, according to his data from the report of Financial Intelligence Unit of Latvia, in favor of
two shell-offshore companies, as well as Hunter Biden with partners, the Burisma company paid no less than $16.5 mln.
Kolomoysky is also the chief political benefactor of Ukraine's current President, Volodymyr Zelenskiy. Consequently, Kolomoysky
had supported both the overthrow of Yanukovych and the recent election of Zelensky.
For Kolomoysky, instead of Zlochevsky, to be targeted in corruption investigations that would be supported by Kolomoysky's agent
Zelensky, would be unlikely, unless America's current President, Donald Trump, were to abandon entirely his predecessor's, Ukraine-policy,
and were to require Zelensky to do likewise, and Zelensky then were to obey that command from the U.S. White House.
Those things are, as of yet, not expected to happen.
On November 20th, the U.S.-allied 'news'-agency, Reuters, headlined with the anodyne "Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder
to embezzlement of state funds" and buried in that 486-word article - and provided no further information regarding - the stunning
15-word statement (the real news in the article), that:
The investigation [by Ukraine's Government, of Zlochevsky] is effectively on hold, however, because the Ukrainian authorities
cannot determine Zlochevsky's whereabouts."
Reasonable presumptions would be that Zlochevsky had received advance notice that he was going to be targeted in yet another 'investigation'
into alleged Burisma corruption and had fled Ukraine, much as he had done when Yanukovych was ousted in 2014.
Consequently, thus far, U.S. President Trump has been adhering to Barack Obama's Ukraine policy (which targeted the pro-Yanukovych
Zlochevsky, instead of the anti-Yanukovych Kolomoysky). However, with the recent firing of Obama's Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch,
that could change.
Although virtually all of the press says that Mr. Zlochevsky owns Burisma, both of the detailed investigations that have
been done of the matter indicate that Zlochevsky sold majority-ownership of the company in 2011 to a Ukrainian billionaire,
Ihor Kolomoysky.
That's interesting. I didn't know that. Kolomoisky's a slippery bastard. Now it appears he's changing sides yet again, at least
if this latest report
from the NYT is to be believed:
"Mr. Kolomoisky, widely seen as Ukraine's most powerful figure outside government, given his role as the patron of the recently
elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, has experienced a remarkable change of heart: It is time, he said, for Ukraine to give
up on the West and turn back toward Russia."
It'll be interesting to see if Kolomoisky's latest treachery helps to hasten Biden's downfall!
Seamus Padraig ,
Wouldn't it be poetic justice if the Clintonoids' destruction of Ukraine ends destroying them in return? I would laugh my ass
off!
Less than six hours after Bojo's disastrous performance on LBC Radio this morning (
here ) we have a 'terrorist attack' in London. There needs to be a modern-day Nuremberg Trials.
When Miss Vicki F*TheEU Nuland was scheming with the American ambassador to insert the American stooge "Yats" as she called him,
into the leadership of the Ukraine, there was talk about how all the Ukraine gold was being moved to the US for "safekeeping".
Does anyone know what happened to their gold reserves?
paul ,
It's in safe hands now, having been flown out to the US, along with the 140 tons of Libyan gold and the Iraqi gold and the Venezuelan
gold and the gold from the basement of WTC 7. So we can all sleep easy now. Any country taking out IMF loans has to hand over
its gold to Uncle Sam.
Just as well. Can't be too careful when there are all these standard issue Mark 1 Foaming-At- The-Mouth-Radical-Moslem-Terrorists
lurking around London Bridge, as supplied by Central Casting. Luckily they are all on the MI5 payroll so our splendid spook chaps
can keep an eye on them.
paul ,
They have lost their oil/ coal/ steel/ gas/ metallurgy/ chemicals/ engineering/ motor vehicle/ shipbuilding/ aircraft/ locomotives/
armaments/ spacecraft/ agricultural machinery industries, and ten million of their population, so they might as well lose their
gold as well.
George Cornell ,
So what possible expertise or wisdom was Hunt Rhymeswith Biden giving time the board of Burisma? I posed this in an NYT blog and
got the reply that the 100k/month was for "the respectability" Rhymeswith would bring to the board. 'Struth!. It's Saturday Night
Live every night in Washington.
Here it is more officially. Hunter was hired to "boost the reputation of Burisma", as only cokehead sex addicted dishonorably
discharged rejects from the Navy can.
King Herod running a babysitting service would make more sense.
This is surely a type of Will Rogers effect.
George Cornell ,
And just for one more whack at what should be a dead horse, most will have noted that former Polish President Krasniewski, handpicked
for the interview in the Daily Mail linked above, is the same Krasniewski who is mentioned in the article above as receiving 1.15
million euros and a few other millions in loose change from Burisma.
He says earnestly that Biden Jr. never abused his position
on the Burisma board. But says little about what surely is a sham contract with Biden Jr. – as to what Biden's, and his own deliverables
might have been. No mention by the Mail about his conflict of interest, who seem to be after just allowing Krasy to defend the
indefensible, viz. the more appalling of the two Bidens.
No wonder poor Poland stays in NATO and spends money on American arms at the expense of pressing social needs, with leaders
like Krasy.
MichaelK ,
Trump's rubbing his tiny hands together with glee at the thought of Joe Biden running against him in next year's election! Biden's
the 'perfect' candidate and Trump will wipe the floor with him. Apparently Ohama has raised questions about Biden's 'gualities'
as a candidate, that's probably because he's up to his turkey neck in the corrupt swamp of Ukrainian's dire politics along with
his pin-head son, Hunter; or 'Hunt' as I prefer to call him.
Perhaps the Democrats have decided to sit the next election out, because they sense that none of the sanctioned candidates
stand a chance against Trump. Perhaps this is why the billionaire Bloomberg has thrown his golden crown into the ring. The Battle
of the Billionaires should be a 'democratic' spectacle worth watching, from a safe distance.
paul ,
Apart from Afghanistan, Ukraine is probably the most corrupt country in the world. It makes Nigeria look like a model of good
governance.
The income per head there is less than Egypt. It is a failed state, a total basket case.
It is a CIA/ NATO playground to aggressively confront Russia.
Tens of billions have been poured into this poor and egregiously corrupt country by the EU, IMF, and CIA Front Groups like the
National Endowment For Democracy to prop up the Fascist Coup Regime that was installed there in 2014.
Surprisingly enough, all this has promptly evaporated into private foreign bank accounts. There is nothing to show for it.
Ukraine, just like Iraq before it, has been a happy hunting ground for corrupt US politicians and their junkie offspring.
Hence the howls of outrage when Trump threatens their pork barrel by threatening to scale back US involvement in Ukraine.
The only future Ukraine has is an impoverished depopulated backwater, like the Baltics. A source of cheap labour and cheap prostitutes
for the EU – the only thing Ukraine produces the EU wants.
Grafter ,
Corrupt individuals of one fascist regime (Ukraine) handing out billions to their partners of another corrupt fascist regime (America).
"Consultancy fees" for what exactly ? Anyway nothing to see here it's all perfectly normal "business". Move along now.
Vierotchka ,
Ihor Kolomoysky is the hand in the Volodymy Zelensky puppet.
lundiel ,
I was wondering if they would ever get round to investigating Hunter Biden's activities. Let's hope this forces them to do so.
LeRuscino ,
The Dems have gone into full self-immolation mode & handed Trump 2020 on a plate !
Hilarious to watch the "Pavlov's Dogs" who were trained to hate Trump, like good little sheep, see their fantasies go up in
smoke. Don't think for one minute (even second) that I support Trump but I do hate Sheep as their naivety is responsible for 99% of
the World's woes.
wardropper ,
One self-immolator handing the election to another self-immolator.
Let's face it, nobody wants to be President of the United States any more.
It's just too much hard work serving the real owners of the White House.
We've reached the "Caligula" stage of the fall of the American empire.
It's terminal.
"... November in Ukraine has been marked by the adoption of the so called 'land reform', in accordance of the demands made by the IMF amongst other international financial organizations. The reform opens the way for the mass privatization of Ukraine's agricultural lands. The IMF has been making these demands for many years but assorted Ukrainian presidents have tried to postpone such an unpopular decision. Recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians of all political persuasions are opposed to land privatization, from far-right to far-left. ..."
"... After an intensive period of deindustrialization, which has taken place in recent years, agricultural land remain the only asset with any value in Ukraine but even so, it may be bought for very little. A remarkable fact is that one of the deputies from the ruling party 'Servant of the people,' Nikita Poturayev , while pressing his colleagues at the Parliament to vote for the bill on land reform, claimed [1] that this would be 'settling scores with maniac V. Lenin', i.e. the purpose of the bill was to abolish the land nationalization carried out following the October revolution. ..."
"... Ukrainian political expert Ruslan Bortnik says that the President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky and his team came to power under an obligation to sell out the agricultural land of Ukraine to foreign companies. Those who buy these lands, according to Bortnik, will only be thinking about making the quickest possible buck. "Foreign companies are already operating on Ukrainian soil [renting land]," said Bortnik, ..."
"... "But they are competing with large Ukrainian agricultural holdings. They do not dominate. If the adopted land market model is launched, then only large foreign companies will remain in our market Let's be honest – we are not a sovereign country. At least our government is under external control. And this is a part of the obligations of this government. This is the condition under which they came to power. They are paying the debts through privatization." [2] ..."
"... Ukrainian farmers who still are landowners, formally at least – they just can't sell it – are the same people who are unable to pay their gas and electricity bills, especially after the recent raising of energy prices – another IMF demand. ..."
"... For the most part, it was in the region of $7.4 billion of stolen Ukraine's public money, from which only a "small share" was used to bribe Western politicians, like Hunter Biden. The deputies have stressed that, according to the investigation of Ukraine's general prosecution, the withdrawn and laundered money was then invested back into Ukraine. In particular through the Franklin Templeton Investments, the money was used to buy domestic government bonds (DGB), issued by Kiev at high interest rate. ..."
"... Ukrainian prosecutor Konstantin Kulik recently stated [4] in an interview that Ukraine takes IMF loans to pay out on these debt obligations (DGB). As deputy Aleksandr Dubinsky stressed at the press conference, 40% of the current public budget goes towards the payment of the public debt of Ukraine, including the repayment of DGB at inflated interest rates. ..."
November in Ukraine has been marked by the adoption of the so called 'land reform', in accordance of the demands made by the
IMF amongst other international financial organizations. The reform opens the way for the mass privatization of Ukraine's agricultural
lands. The IMF has been making these demands for many years but assorted Ukrainian presidents have tried to postpone such an unpopular
decision. Recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians of all political persuasions are opposed to land privatization,
from far-right to far-left.
After an intensive period of deindustrialization, which has taken place in recent years, agricultural land remain the only
asset with any value in Ukraine but even so, it may be bought for very little. A remarkable fact is that one of the deputies from
the ruling party 'Servant of the people,' Nikita Poturayev , while pressing his colleagues at the Parliament to vote for the bill
on land reform, claimed [1] that this would be 'settling scores with maniac V. Lenin', i.e. the purpose of the bill was to abolish
the land nationalization carried out following the October revolution.
Ukraine's fertile soil up for grabs
It has long been known that Ukraine's soil is very fertile. Indeed, during WW2 the invading Nazis made a point of appropriating
quantities of it; forcing POWs to collect the top soil and load it onto trains en route to Germany. Now these same lands could fall
into the hands of international agro-holdings.
Ukrainian political expert Ruslan Bortnik says that the President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky and his team came to power
under an obligation to sell out the agricultural land of Ukraine to foreign companies. Those who buy these lands, according to Bortnik,
will only be thinking about making the quickest possible buck. "Foreign companies are already operating on Ukrainian soil [renting
land]," said Bortnik,
"But they are competing with large Ukrainian agricultural holdings. They do not dominate. If the adopted land market model
is launched, then only large foreign companies will remain in our market Let's be honest – we are not a sovereign country. At
least our government is under external control. And this is a part of the obligations of this government. This is the condition
under which they came to power. They are paying the debts through privatization." [2]
Ukrainian farmers who still are landowners, formally at least – they just can't sell it – are the same people who are unable
to pay their gas and electricity bills, especially after the recent raising of energy prices – another IMF demand. Obviously,
their financial desperation will mean that many will have to sell their land at a low price, certainly well below the market value.
Meanwhile, Ukraine remains the poorest country on the continent of Europe and Ukrainian agricultural land remains the cheapest. Moreover,
the lands may be bought up as repaying large loans collected by the Kiev government following the Euromaidan coup in 2014.
This scheme of buying up Ukraine's land is connected with the ongoing corruption scandal in the US: the one related to Joe Biden
and the gas company 'Burisma'. At the end of November, Ukrainian MPs (non-factional people's deputy Andrey Derkach; a deputy from
the Batkivshchyna Party Aleksey Kucherenko; and a deputy from the ruling Servant of the People party, Aleksandr Dubinsky) revealed
it at the press-conference [3].
The point here is that the former Minister of Ecology of Ukraine Nikolay Zlochevsky , an owner of "Burisma" gas company, in 2014
introduced a number of Western politicians to the board of directors of his company, which helped him to avoid accusations of corruption.
Hunter Biden , son of former US Vice President Joe Biden , received monthly large payments for his "consultancy services". As a result
Ukraine's General prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, who was investigating the corruption schemes of the company, was forced – under
pressure – to resign by Joe Biden, who even boasted about it in the US media.
Ukrainian MPs have now claimed at a press-conference that the money used to bribe the son of the former Vice President of the
United States was in fact stolen. "Biden received money, the source of which is not the successful activity of Burisma, brilliant
business moves, or recommendations. It is the money of the citizens of Ukraine. It was obtained by criminal means," said the MP Andrey
Derkach. The ultimate goal of all this fraud, in which the Bidens were deeply involved, will be the bankruptcy of Ukraine in 2020-2021,
through the formation of a pyramid of public debt.
Laundering scheme to withdraw money from Ukraine
According to Ukrainian deputies, this was a part of a bigger laundering scheme to withdraw money from Ukraine via Latvian banks
and the fund 'Franklin Templeton Investments,' which is close to the United States Democratic Party. The founder of the foundation,
John Templeton Jr., was one of the main sponsors of the campaign of former US President Barack Obama.
For the most part, it was in the region of $7.4 billion of stolen Ukraine's public money, from which only a "small share"
was used to bribe Western politicians, like Hunter Biden. The deputies have stressed that, according to the investigation of Ukraine's
general prosecution, the withdrawn and laundered money was then invested back into Ukraine. In particular through the Franklin Templeton
Investments, the money was used to buy domestic government bonds (DGB), issued by Kiev at high interest rate.
The principle of this scheme is that with the assistance of American funds, the laundered money was legalised and invested in
government bonds at 6-8% in dollars and 15-17% in Ukrainian currency (hryvnia). This is leading to enormous growth in the Ukrainian
public debt and eventually the bankruptcy of the country's economy.
Eventual bankruptcy of the economy
Ukrainian prosecutor Konstantin Kulik recently stated [4] in an interview that Ukraine takes IMF loans to pay out on these
debt obligations (DGB). As deputy Aleksandr Dubinsky stressed at the press conference, 40% of the current public budget goes towards
the payment of the public debt of Ukraine, including the repayment of DGB at inflated interest rates.
According to him, bankruptcy on the debts could happen by the end of 2020 or 2021.
And this scheme is connected with land privatization, as adopted by Kiev in November in accordance with the IMF demand. "DGBs
are a financial instrument by which the state owes all its property when paying off the DGB. And if the land market is opened, the
state will have no other valuable property, with the exception of land," said Dubinsky, demanding the suspension of debt payments
to international creditors.
As a result of this unpopular land reform and the widespread violations of labour rights, Ukraine's trade-unions called a general
strike [5] for November 14 and began preparations. For the first time in the history of independent Ukraine, a strike committee was
formed at the all-national level. This committee was joined by trade unions, individual entrepreneurs, small businesses, agricultural
producers and farmers.
Management fires workers, pays themselves millions in bonuses
On November 14, Ukrainian railroad workers protested [6] in front of the Presidential office in Kiev against the announced plans
to fire some 50% of railroad personnel. The workers demanded the railroad management should resign instead. The deputy head of the
railroad trade-union, Alexander Mushenok, recently said [7] that currently "only 20 workers are employed where 60 workers are needed."
At the same time the workers claim that the top-level management of the company are paying themselves millions in bonuses. One of
the IMF demands requires that the Kiev authorities privatize the railroad system as well. In practice, this means that the few profitable
routes will be privatized by western companies, while the majority of non-profitable routes – to poorly developed provinces – will
remain state-owned, making the railway transport even less profitable.
The entire course of privatization, as promoted by the IMF, can be summarized by the principle 'privatization of profits, nationalization
of losses." And the new Kiev government is far too dependent to protest against the imposition of this policy; however, this will
effectively mean that this government will lose its credibility and trustworthiness among the people.
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If you've not heard the story, Zlochevsky is alleged to have been doing other people's
laundry. About 7.5 billion dollars worth – a sum that has attracted some attention. And
not just because Ukraine claims Hunter Biden's attachment to Burisma resulted in a take if 16.5
million. Money that has nothing to do with his complete lack of knowledge about energy or gas
but probably relates in some predictable way to the name 'Biden.' The investment firm doing the
laundry has close ties to Barack Obama. Joe Biden. Lt. Col Alexander Vindman. Perhaps a few
members of the US State Department. And maybe a George Soros funded operation "fighting
corruption."
We've seen that Vindman has close ties to the previous Ukrainian government, dating back
to Yanukovych and his successor Petro Poroshenko, while this alleged money-laundering scheme
was taking place. The connection to the Franklin Templeton Fund is interesting because John
Templeton, Jr. was a major Obama campaign donor, and Thomas Donilon, who was Obama's National
Security Advisor before Susan Rice and is now the chairman of BlackRock
Investment Institute , a major owner of Franklin Templeton stock.
Vindman is a holdover from the Bamster years, embedded at the NSC.
He served as National Security Advisor to President Barack Obama. In that capacity Mr.
Donilon oversaw the U.S. National Security Council staff, chaired the cabinet level National
Security Principals Committee, provided the president's daily national security briefing, and
was responsible for the coordination and integration of the administration's foreign policy,
intelligence, and military efforts. Mr. Donilon also oversaw the White House's cybersecurity
and international energy efforts. Mr. Donilon served as the President's personal emissary to
a number of world leaders.
Not a casual acquaintance but watch Obama distance himself from him now. "Who? O
I..uh-hardly knew him!"
Under the Obama Administration, former Ukrainian Ambassador Marie Yovanovich, like Biden,
like the Soros funded group working with the State Department, were all supposed to be focused
on fighting corruption. There's that word again. I don't think it means what they think it
means.
But while all this corruption-fighting was underway Joe's kid Hunter gets a sweetheart
payoff from Burisma. Joe (who is in charge of Ukraine) gets close to a million for himself. All
while 7.5 Billion is alleged to have been laundered through a "fund" whose primary players are
a major Obama donor and the President's "personal emissary" (under the watchful anti-corruption
eye of a group funded by perhaps the biggest Democrat donor in history, George Soros).
During this series of events, Ukraine got leveraged by the Obama Administration to fire a
prosecutor in exchange for a billion in US aid, probably because that prosecutor was getting
too close to what we are learning today.
Somebody was engaged in a record number of quid pro quos, and no one is named Trump.
...
... ... Steve
MacDonaldis a New Hampshire resident, blogger, and activist. A member of the 603
Alliance, NHCMP, NHRVC, LFGC, and the host of GrokTALK! Please Note: My opinions are my own and
not those of my Family, employers, politicians, campaigns, or other contributors or commenters
at GraniteGrok
Looks like both Yovanovich and Hill are connected to Soros and did his bidding instead of pursuing Trump policies as for
Ukraine. Yovanovich was clearly dismiied due to her role in channeling damaging to Trump information during 2016 elections,
the fact that she denies (as she denied the exostance of "do not procecute list"). And nothing can be taken serious from a
government official until she denied it.
Notable quotes:
"... Fiona Hill, who was the senior director for Europe and Russia in the National Security Council (NSC) said other NSC staff had been "hounded out" by threats against them, including antisemitic smears linking them to the liberal financier and philanthropist, George Soros, a hate figure on the far right. ..."
"... This was a mishmash of conspiracy theories that I believe firmly to be baseless, an idea of an association between her and George Soros." ..."
"... "My entire first year of my tenure at the National Security Council was filled with hateful calls, conspiracy theories, which has started again, frankly, as it's been announced that I've been giving this deposition, accusing me of being a Soros mole in the White House, of colluding with all kinds of enemies of the president, and of various improprieties." ..."
"... "When I saw this happening to Ambassador Yovanovitch, I was furious," she said, pointing to "this whipping up of what is frankly an antisemitic conspiracy theory about George Soros to basically target nonpartisan career officials, and also some political appointees as well." ..."
"... Hill dismissed the suggestion that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election was a "conspiracy theory" intended to distract attention from Russia's well-documented role. ..."
Fiona Hill, who was the senior director for Europe and Russia in the National Security
Council (NSC) said other NSC staff had been "hounded out" by threats against them, including
antisemitic smears linking them to the liberal financier and philanthropist, George Soros, a
hate figure on the far right.
In her testimony to Congress, Hill described a climate of fear among administration
staff.
The UK-born academic and biographer of Vladimir Putin said that the former ambassador to
Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, was the target of a hate campaign, with the aim of driving her from
her post in Kyiv, where she was seen as an obstacle to some corrupt business interests.
Yovanovitch was recalled from Ukraine in May on Trump's orders. In a 25 July conversation
with the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, Trump described Yovanovitch as "bad news"
and predicted she was "going to go through some things". The former ambassador has testified
she felt threatened by the remarks.
Trump's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, led calls for Yovanovitch's dismissal, as did two of Giuliani
business associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman. All three are under scrutiny in hearings being
held by House committees looking at Trump's use of his office to put pressure on the Ukrainian
government to investigate his political opponents.
"There was no basis for her removal," Hill testified. "The accusations against her had no
merit whatsoever. This was a mishmash of conspiracy theories that I believe firmly to be
baseless, an idea of an association between her and George Soros."
"I had had accusations similar to this being made against me as well," Hill testified. "My
entire first year of my tenure at the National Security Council was filled with hateful calls,
conspiracy theories, which has started again, frankly, as it's been announced that I've been
giving this deposition, accusing me of being a Soros mole in the White House, of colluding with
all kinds of enemies of the president, and of various improprieties."
She added that the former national security adviser, HR McMaster "and many other members of
staff were targeted as well, and many people were hounded out of the National Security Council
because they became frightened about their own security."
"I received, I just have to tell you, death threats, calls at my home. My neighbours
reported somebody coming and hammering on my door," Hill said, adding that she had also been
targeted by obscene phone calls. "Now, I'm not easily intimidated, but that made me mad."
"When I saw this happening to Ambassador Yovanovitch, I was furious," she said, pointing to
"this whipping up of what is frankly an antisemitic conspiracy theory about George Soros to
basically target nonpartisan career officials, and also some political appointees as well."
In Yovanovitch's case, Hill said: "the most obvious explanation [for the smear campaign]
seemed to be business dealings of individuals who wanted to improve their investment positions
inside of Ukraine
itself, and also to deflect away from the findings of not just the Mueller report on Russian
interference but what's also been confirmed by your own Senate report, and what I know myself
to be true as a former intelligence analyst and somebody who has been working on Russia for
more than 30 years."
Hill dismissed the suggestion that Ukraine meddled in the 2016 election was a "conspiracy
theory" intended to distract attention from Russia's well-documented role.
"... Since 2014, it's been glaringly obvious to astute (and honest) observers that the Administration of Barack Obama and Joe Biden supported the most vicious street mobs in Europe, people who considered themselves proud fascists . Western media routinely censored this part of the story. Obama's Assistant Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland, made deals with their leaders and was caught on an open phone line handpicking the next unelected leader of Ukraine, someone they could sell to the US public: "Yats is the guy." ..."
"... Representative Dennis Kucinich expressed outrage on Bill O'Reilly's TV show that the Obama Administration had aided this bloody, illegitimate coup. The head of the CIA-linked STRATFOR called Ukraine " the most blatant coup in history. " ..."
"... Aiding and abetting fascist militias to violently siege a foreign capital is not considered a crime in Washington DC, at all. Conversely, it is business as usual, as Bolivians and Venezuelans can attest to. ..."
"... Woody Allen directed a film entitled "Crimes and Misdemeanors." That pretty much sums up the DC circus unfolding in Congress. Everything above is completely true, and yet Barack Obama is heralded as someone in the neighborhood of saints and superheroes. To the belligerent American empire, Obama was a star quarterback. Let's not even delve into Barack's support for Al Qaeda in Syria , and another half-million dead there, or we'll be here all day. ..."
"... This farce is so laughable on its face and so irrelevant to the American people's interests, that it's difficult to overstate the insanity -- and outrageous hypocrisy -- of the Democrats' contrived "Ukrainegate" case. This impeachment charge has nothing whatsoever to do with right and wrong. ..."
"... In 2014 , Barack Obama's White House, "refused to include weapons in an aid package for embattled Ukraine despite an impassioned plea by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for more military assistance." Obama didn't send any weapons at all, which would have provoked Russia to an even greater degree, after overthrowing their legitimately elected next-door ally and tearing Ukraine apart. It was obvious that Russia wasn't "invading" Ukraine, as propaganda memes claimed, but simply responding to these international crimes and to the dangerous destabilization on its border. The US had already done quite enough damage, and they didn't need to escalate a proxy war against Russia toward nuclear Armageddon . ..."
"... Hunter Biden knew absolutely nothing about Ukraine or the natural gas industry. The nepotism was glaring. This was clear graft, payback, kickback, corruption, parasites descending after the violent seizure of the state. Biden the elder was in charge of US Ukraine policy, and specifically the big money spigot, after the illegal, US-supported coup there. ..."
"... Biden's conflict of interest was so obvious that Trump certainly believed he was onto something. Joe Biden, and media sympathetic to his claims, has predictably tried to cloud the issue, but the corruption is too obvious not to notice. This should, and may, have ended Joe Biden's 2020 presidential bid. ..."
"... What happened in Ukraine was old-timey Smash & Grab , a reckless attack right on Russia's western border. Joe Biden arrived to grab as much loot from Ukraine's gas sector as he possibly could through a cut-out, his son. Biden used his leverage over Ukraine's international "loan guarantees" (which is money the coup leaders receive but don't have to pay back) to finance their new illegitimate junta. ..."
"... This current Ukrainegate impeachment charade appears to be motivated only by blind partisanship and the desire to insulate corrupt insiders like Joe Biden from any scrutiny of their actions. The farce has gone so over-the-top that even as Democratic partisan media heralded the testimony of Trump's Ukraine Ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch, Donald Trump's allies have already used portions of her testimony as a video advertisement for his reelection! ..."
Did you know that Donald Trump had the State Department, USAID,
NED , and the CIA fund and train
Neo-Nazi, fascist militias to overthrow the government of Ukraine? These riot mobs, primarily
Svoboda and
Right Sector , stormed the capital, firebombed and shot the police, and destroyed democracy inside Ukraine. When the legitimately
elected president was forced out by the rioters, the population which had supported him in the east seceded from the country, tearing
the entire nation into pieces and sparking a civil war. The Ukraine civil war has cost the lives of
over 13,000 Ukrainians . There is so much blood on Donald Trump's hands.
Oh, wait a minute! That was Barack Obama . Change that paragraph, please.
Since 2014, it's been glaringly obvious to astute (and honest) observers that the Administration of Barack Obama and Joe Biden
supported the most vicious street mobs in Europe, people who considered themselves proud
fascists . Western media
routinely censored this part of the story. Obama's Assistant Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland, made deals with their leaders and
was caught on an open phone line
handpicking the next unelected leader of Ukraine, someone they could sell to the US public: "Yats is the guy."
America's proxy terrorists burned Kiev, seized power violently, and through the power of the purse strings, Obama's Administration
installed friendly-faced fascists, who immediately set about attacking their countrymen in the east, with a policy of mass murder
and indiscriminate bombings. Eastern provinces of
Crimea and
Donetsk , which notably had supported
the ousted president, held referenda. The people there voted overwhelmingly to secede from the illegitimate, unelected, foreign-sponsored
coup regime in Kiev.
The above is most certainly not the reason cited this week for Impeachment hearings.
Aiding and abetting fascist militias to violently siege a foreign capital is not considered a crime in Washington DC, at all.
Conversely, it is business as usual, as Bolivians and Venezuelans can attest to.
Woody Allen directed a film entitled "Crimes and Misdemeanors." That pretty much sums up the DC circus unfolding in
Congress. Everything above is completely true, and yet Barack Obama is heralded as someone in the neighborhood of saints and superheroes.
To the belligerent American empire, Obama was a star quarterback. Let's not even delve into Barack's
support for Al Qaeda in Syria , and another half-million dead there, or we'll be here all day.
Donald Trump made a phone call. In his phone call, he is said to have bullied the President of Ukraine a little. He may have even
delayed some weapons transfers to that country, which was engaged in a proxy war with nuclear-armed Russia and its separatist allies
in the east of Ukraine.
That's a crime? A real crime? In light of over thirteen thousand slaughtered and an illegal coup in broad daylight? Trump's telephone
call is the real crime?
Other Presidents haven't bullied other client-state puppet leaders, ever?
And why exactly is the President of the United States of America required to send lethal weapons to
foreign fascists at all? Has anyone located that section of the Constitution?
This farce is so laughable on its face and so irrelevant to the American people's interests, that it's difficult to overstate
the insanity -- and outrageous hypocrisy -- of the Democrats' contrived "Ukrainegate" case. This impeachment charge has nothing whatsoever
to do with right and wrong.
In 2014 , Barack Obama's White House, "refused to include weapons in an aid package for embattled Ukraine despite an impassioned
plea by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for more military assistance." Obama didn't send any weapons at all, which would have
provoked Russia to an even greater degree, after overthrowing their legitimately elected next-door ally and tearing Ukraine apart.
It was obvious that Russia wasn't "invading" Ukraine, as propaganda memes claimed, but simply responding to these international crimes
and to the dangerous destabilization on its border. The US had already done quite enough damage, and they didn't need to escalate
a proxy war against Russia toward nuclear Armageddon .
Which brings us now to Donald Trump, who became interested in Joe Biden's obvious corruption inside Ukraine, installing his own
son on the board of a Ukrainian gas company, Burisma . Hunter Biden knew absolutely nothing about Ukraine or the natural gas
industry. The nepotism was glaring. This was clear graft, payback, kickback, corruption, parasites descending after the violent seizure
of the state. Biden the elder was in charge of US Ukraine policy, and specifically the big money spigot, after the illegal, US-supported
coup there.
Then -- as Joe will be Joe -- Biden bragged publicly about
getting Ukraine's top prosecutor fired to the strains of Washington insider laughter. The Ukrainian prosecutor had been investigating
that same company which Biden had arranged his son Hunter onto the board of. Biden's conflict of interest was so obvious that
Trump certainly believed he was onto something. Joe Biden, and media sympathetic to his claims, has predictably tried to cloud the
issue,
but the corruption is too obvious not to notice. This should, and may, have ended Joe Biden's 2020 presidential bid.
What happened in Ukraine was old-timey Smash & Grab , a reckless attack right on Russia's western border. Joe Biden
arrived to grab as much loot from Ukraine's gas sector as he possibly could through a cut-out, his son. Biden used his leverage over
Ukraine's international "loan guarantees" (which is money the coup leaders receive but don't have to pay back) to finance their new
illegitimate junta.
Biden's own quid pro quo , in his own words: "I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting
the money. Well, son of a bitch. He got fired." This is exactly the type of crime they now accuse Trump of perpetrating with his
telephone. The hypocrisy is comical.
The Obama Administration's corruption, along with a bloody war and thirteen-thousand corpses, is what a real crime looks like.
Hold onto that picture.
Democrats were allegedly the good guys vis a vis Ukraine?
Weren't these international war crimes breaching the UN Charter, which demands exclusively peaceful actions between states,
Article II?
All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security,
and justice, are not endangered.
-- United Nations Charter, a ratified Treaty, and the "Supreme Law of the Land"
Launching a proxy war on nuclear-armed Russia was a sane foreign policy? Sending even more arms to escalate that conflict was
allegedly such a glorious idea that any delay in weapons shipments becomes an impeachable offense?
This unserious charge leveled against Donald Trump distracts from all of his obvious corruption. Trump's
Emoluments violations have been impeachable for years, but
the Democrats weren't interested. Do Democrats long to cash in on the Office of the Presidency next time?
Multiple deaths of refugee children in US federal
custody at the southern border could be considered murders linked directly to official policies of harsh treatment and deliberate
neglect. Are Democrats afraid of exposing Obama's own
caging of immigrant children?
This current Ukrainegate impeachment charade appears to be motivated only by blind partisanship and the desire to insulate
corrupt insiders like Joe Biden from any scrutiny of their actions. The farce has gone so over-the-top that even as Democratic partisan
media heralded the testimony of Trump's Ukraine Ambassador, Marie Yovanovitch, Donald Trump's allies have already used portions of
her testimony as a video advertisement for his reelection!
Are Democrats trying to hurt or to help Trump's reelection?
Joe Giambrone has written for WhoWhatWhy, Foreign Policy Journal, International Policy Digest, Counterpunch, GlobalResearch,
OpEdNews, and his fabulous new novel is DEMIGODS. Read
other articles by Joe .
This doesn't even touch on the fact that Biden has been revealed as an incredibly corrupt sleazebag. That is, what Trump wanted
investigated, the Bidens scooping up cash (our cash ultimately, since we gave it to Ukraine) in the corrupt Ukraine. How they
think all the attention will be focused on Trump asking Zelensky to look into these shameful payoffs and not the payoffs themselves,
is beyond me.
The list contains some (but not all) of the key participants of the 2014 coup d'état
against President Yanukovich. There are 13 names in the list: MPs Serhiy Leshchenko, Mustafa
Nayem, Svitlana Zalishchuk, Serhiy Berezenko, Serhiy Pashynsky; ex-Prime Minister Arseniy
Yatsenyuk; ex-Head of the National Bank of Ukraine Valeriya Hontareva; ex-First Deputy of the
National Security and Defense Council Oleg Hladkovsky; judge of the Constitutional Court of
Ukraine Makar Pasenyuk; candidate for presidency Anatoly Hrytsenko; singer Svyatoslav Vakarchuk;
journalist Dmytro Hordon and ex-Head of the Presidential Administration Borys Lozhkin.
Pashynsky was involved in Snipergate. Yatsenyuk was the marionette chosen by Nuland to head
the Provisional government after Yanukovich will be overthrown.
Almost all of these people from the list were involved in various sort of scandals during
the last five years. Particularly, Oleg Hladkovsky was recently dismissed from his post due to
the corruption scandal in the defense sphere. Serhiy Leshchenko became known for the purchase
of the flat for $275,253 and the number of information attacks at well-known politicians and
businessmen. Serhy Pashynsky was tied to the hostile takeover of a confectionary factory in
Zhytomyr.
In its turn, the U.S. Department of State stated that the
words of Lutsenko are not true and aims to tarnish the reputation of Ambassador
Yovanovitch. Thus, there are certain concerns that the actual list might be fake.
WASHINGTON (Sputnik) - The House is holding its second public hearing with former US envoy
to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch centring around her ouster which, according to her, is pertinent
to the impeachment probe against Trump. Former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch
flatly denied allegations that she circulated a list of potential corruption targets in Ukraine
that the United States did not want prosecuted, according to testimony at the opening of
hearings in the House impeachment probe of President Donald Trump on Friday.
"I want to reiterate first that the allegation that I disseminated a do not prosecute list
was a fabrication", Yovanovitch said. "Mr Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian prosecutor general
who made that allegation, has acknowledged that the list never existed. I did not tell Mr
Lutsenko or other Ukrainian officials who they should or should not prosecute. Instead I
advocated the US position that rule of law should prevail."
US President Donald Trump in a series of tweets on Friday
criticised former Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch's performance while she was
testifying in the impeachment hearing against him. He defended his decision to replace
Yovanovitch - appointed by his predecessor Barak Obama - as the US ambassador to Ukraine, where
she served from August 2016 until May 2019.
....They call it "serving at the pleasure of the President." The U.S. now has a very
strong and powerful foreign policy, much different than proceeding administrations. It is
called, quite simply, America First! With all of that, however, I have done FAR more for
Ukraine than O.
During Friday's Democrat-led impeachment inquiry hearing, former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine
Marie Yovanovitch testified under oath that she did not give former Ukrainian Prosecutor
General Yuriy Lutsenko a "do not prosecute list" in 2017. Yovanovitch also doubled-down on
left-wing disinformation saying that Lutsenko "acknowledged that the list never existed" in
April.
"I want to reiterate first that the allegation that I disseminated a "Do Not Prosecute" list
was a fabrication,"
Yovanovitch told the House Intelligence Committee . "Mr. Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian
prosecutor general who made that allegation, has acknowledged that the list never existed. I
did not tell Mr. Lutsenko or other Ukrainian officials who they should or should not
prosecute."
"That is such a lie," Glenn Beck said on Friday's show. "She should be held for
perjury."
During a three-part BlazeTV exposé on the Democrats' corruption in Ukraine, Glenn
debunked what he called "the most misleading fabrication I've ever seen by the mainstream
media."
Earlier this year, award-winning investigative journalist John
Solomon reported Lutsenko's claim that then-Ambassador Yovanovitch gave him a list of
"people whom we should not prosecute" during a meeting in 2016. Shortly after Solomon's article
was released, several news sources, including the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal,
reported that Lutsenko retracted his statement.
When Lutsenko said Yovanovitch "gave" him a list, he did not mean she actually handed him
anything in writing, but verbally conveyed the names of people he shouldn't prosecute.
"They never mentioned the fact that it was verbally dictated and he wrote the list down
himself -- are you kidding me?" Glenn exclaimed. "This is how the media is fact-checking and
debunking. They are playing with our republic and Ukraine's republic. They are planting
dynamite all around everything that we hold dear. How do they sleep at night? Everyone that
reads their stories actually thinks that there was a retraction of one of the most damning
parts of this entire case."
If you like what you see, use promo code GB20OFF to get $20 off a full year of BlazeTV . With a BlazeTV subscription, you're not just paying to watch
great pro-free speech, pro-America TV. Your subscription funds the intensive investigations
that let BlazeTV tell the stories
the liberal media wants to keep in the dark, giving you the unvarnished truth, showing you what
the media doesn't want you to see.
Read More
Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko told Hill.TV's John Solomon in an interview that
aired Wednesday that U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch gave him a do not prosecute
list during their first meeting.
"Unfortunately, from the first meeting with the U.S. ambassador in Kiev, [Yovanovitch] gave
me a list of people whom we should not prosecute," Lutsenko, who took his post in 2016, told
Hill.TV last week.
"My response of that is it is inadmissible. Nobody in this country, neither our president
nor our parliament nor our ambassador, will stop me from prosecuting whether there is a crime,"
he continued.
The State Department called Lutsenko's claim of receiving a do not prosecute list, "an
outright fabrication."
"We have seen reports of the allegations," a department spokesperson told Hill.TV. "The
United States is not currently providing any assistance to the Prosecutor General's Office
(PGO), but did previously attempt to support fundamental justice sector reform, including in
the PGO, in the aftermath of the 2014 Revolution of Dignity. When the political will for
genuine reform by successive Prosecutors General proved lacking, we exercised our fiduciary
responsibility to the American taxpayer and redirected assistance to more productive
projects."
Hill.TV has reached out to the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine for comment.
Lutsenko also said that he has not received funds amounting to nearly $4 million that the
U.S. Embassy in Ukraine was supposed to allocate to his office, saying that "the situation was
actually rather strange" and pointing to the fact that the funds were designated, but "never
received."
"At that time we had a case for the embezzlement of the U.S. government technical assistance
worth 4 million U.S. dollars, and in that regard, we had this dialogue," he said. " At that
time, [Yovanovitch] thought that our interviews of Ukrainian citizens, of Ukrainian civil
servants, who were frequent visitors of the U.S. Embassy put a shadow on that anti-corruption
policy."
"Actually, we got the letter from the U.S. Embassy, from the ambassador, that the money that
we are speaking about [was] under full control of the U.S. Embassy, and that the U.S. Embassy
did not require our legal assessment of these facts," he said. "The situation was actually
rather strange because the funds we are talking about were designated for the prosecutor
general's office also and we told [them] we have never seen those, and the U.S. Embassy replied
there was no problem."
"The portion of the funds namely 4.4 million U.S. dollars were designated and were foreseen
for the recipient Prosecutor General's office. But we have never received it," he said.
Yovanovitch previously served as the U.S. ambassador to Armenia under former presidents
Obama and George W. Bush, as well as ambassador to Kyrgyzstan under Bush. She also served as
ambassador to Ukraine under Obama.
Ukraine became a geopolitical pawn. In signing up with the US and EU, there is one guaranteed loser – the Ukrainian people.
Notable quotes:
"... This unique situation gave Zelenskiy and his team the opportunity to kick-start an ambitious programme of policy and law-making in both domestic and foreign affairs. But rather than sustaining popular enthusiasm for his new approach to politics, the so-called turbo-regime of rapid policy and legislative change has already had a sobering effect on the Ukrainian public and triggered the first public protests against Zelenskiy. ..."
"... Zelenskiy's decision in early October to accept talks with Russia on the future of eastern Ukraine resulted in an outcry from a relatively small but very vocal minority of Ukrainians opposed to any deal-making with Russia. The protests were relatively short-lived, but prospects for a negotiated end to the war in the eastern Donbas region became more remote in light of this domestic opposition. ..."
"... Since then, Zelenskiy has reiterated his commitment to achieving a deal, visiting the disengagement zone and ordering those war veterans who actively oppose the agreed withdrawal to disarm. In another sign of progress, government and rebel forces have also started withdrawing from the village of Petrivske. If this direction of travel continues, a meeting of Ukraine, Russia, France, and Germany in the so-called Normandy format of negotiations could be back on the agenda and Donbas could be set for elections. However, a recent survey in the east indicates a deep divide remains on what people want for the region's future. ..."
"... The high public trust that Zelenskiy still enjoys as president and the hopes that a majority of Ukrainians still have for positive changes under his administration have so far prevented more and growing mass protests. However, the government's program of domestic reform for 2020 could change this. ..."
"... At the same time, "de-oligarchisation" is proceeding slowly. The return from self-imposed exile of Igor Kolomoyskiy, Zelenskiy's principal backer in the presidential campaign, has intensified oligarchic turf wars, pitting Kolomoyskiy against another businessman Rinat Akhmetov, and his increasing power base in the east. This power struggle further contributes to continuing instability in Ukraine and decreases the near-term prospects of the political clean up and economic recovery that Zelenskiy had promised. ..."
"... A deteriorating socio-economic situation and lack of visible and tangible progress on "de-oligarchisation" will not only affect already radicalised veterans but could also galvanise a much larger cross-section of Ukraine's population into yet another mass protest movement. ..."
"... Ukraine's continuing domestic instability is, in part, driven by the larger geopolitical game of competitive influence seeking between Russia and the West in the contested post-Soviet neighbourhood. ..."
"... For the time being, Zelenskiy still enjoys very high levels of public support of around 70 percent of respondents in one survey published in early October. Worryingly, however, only 42 percent of these respondents trust his government and 47 percent trust his parliamentary faction. ..."
"... Unless Zelenskiy and his Western partners spend the president's remaining political capital well, a new wave of protests, like those which drove the Maidan Revolution, may yet be possible. If that happens, there will only be one winner from Ukraine's continuing instability: Russia. ..."
"... The Maidan coup was staged and orchestrated largely by the CIA, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), USAID, and the U.S. Department of State with the likely assistance of the British Secret Service. The staged Maidan Revolution and coup against a democratically-elected president was the real aggression in Ukraine; the Russians naturally reacted to this aggression by protecting their self-interest and their defensively strategic warm-water flank, Crimea. ..."
"... But Gabbard has been dumped on daily since she announced she was running, by who? Hillary the Billionaire (yes! billionaire!) and the NYT that she controls policy-wise via a little clutch of her billionaire intimates and NYT stockholders and power brokers from Ariadne Getty to Barry Diller. They are super-rich militants from NY and Hollywood and Wall Street, primarily backing Buttigeig. ..."
"... Eventually, there is going to have to be a negotiated settlement between the breakaway republics and whichever puppet is the president in Kiev. The longer the wait till such negotiations start, the worse conditions will get in rump Ukraine. Russia has no advantage in whether negotiations start this year, next year or some distant point in the future. ..."
"... How does Russia win with an unstable Ukraine on it's western border? ..."
"... His western partners the cia and soros ngos are his problem, I do hope he can succeed but the powers to be are against him and the Ukraine citizens. ..."
The country's new president faces a series of domestic and foreign policy challenges reminiscent, though not identical, to the
events that preceded the 2013 Euromaidan, write Stefan Wolff and Tatyana Malyarenko.
It's been six years since the start of the Euromaidan revolution in Ukraine, which led to the
ousting of then-President Viktor Yanukovych. By the time his successor Petro Poroshenko
was elected in May 2014, the domestic political scene in Ukraine and the geopolitical dynamics in the contested EU-Russia neighbourhood
surrounding it had fundamentally altered
.
Today, the country's new president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, who
replaced Poroshenko in April 2019, is now facing a series of domestic and foreign policy challenges reminiscent, though not identical,
to the events that preceded the 2013 Euromaidan.
Presidential and parliamentary elections in Ukraine in April and July 2019 created a political situation in Ukraine with an unprecedented
concentration of political power. Zelenskiy and his Servant of the People party have a majority in the Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine's
parliament, and so complete control over
the appointment of the government . The president also
separately
appointed the prosecutor general, the minister of foreign affairs and the minister of defence.
This unique situation gave Zelenskiy and his team the opportunity to kick-start an ambitious programme of policy and law-making
in both domestic and foreign affairs. But rather than sustaining popular enthusiasm for his new approach to politics, the so-called
turbo-regime of rapid policy and legislative change has already had a sobering effect on the Ukrainian public and triggered the first
public protests against Zelenskiy.
Foreign Policy Controversy
Zelenskiy's decision in early October to
accept talks with Russia on the future of eastern Ukraine
resulted in an outcry
from a relatively small but very vocal minority of Ukrainians opposed to any deal-making with Russia. The protests were relatively
short-lived, but prospects for a negotiated end to the war in the eastern Donbas region became
more remote
in light of this domestic opposition.
Ukraine, Russia, and the separatists
also disagreed over who needed to fulfill which preconditions for negotiations, when and in what sequence.
Since then, Zelenskiy has reiterated his commitment to achieving a deal, visiting the disengagement zone and
ordering those war veterans who actively oppose the
agreed withdrawal to disarm. In another sign of progress, government and rebel forces
have also started withdrawing from the village of Petrivske. If this direction of travel continues, a meeting of Ukraine, Russia,
France, and Germany in the so-called Normandy format of negotiations
could be back on the agenda and Donbas could be set for elections. However, a
recent survey in the east indicates a deep divide remains on what people want for the region's future.
Opinion polls from September show that 23 percent of Ukrainians support military confrontation in eastern Ukraine, up from 17
percent a few months previously. As the prospects of reintegration increase under Zelenskiy's administration, so does domestic opposition
to it.
The supporters for war with Russia are ex-president Poroshenko and two parliamentary factions, European Solidarity and Voice,
whose supporters are predominantly located in western Ukraine. Crucially, however, they can also rely on right-wing paramilitary
groups composed of veterans from the hottest phase of the war in Donbas in 2014-5.
The initial motivation of these veterans to protest may have been what they saw as Zelenskiy's
alleged surrender by entering into direct talks with Russia. Zelenskiy has directly confronted them now by ordering them to withdraw
from the disengagement zone, but their opposition to the president's plans
continues .
Domestic Dissatisfaction
What might prove particularly dangerous for Zelenskiy is a possible convergence of so far distinct political camps that oppose
different policies of the new government. If the veterans who are at odds with Zelenskiy over his foreign policy choices were to
join forces with those who oppose him over a number of controversial domestic policies, the potential for destabilisation would significantly
increase.
The high public trust that Zelenskiy still enjoys as president and the hopes that a majority of Ukrainians still have for
positive changes under his administration have so far prevented more and growing mass protests. However, the
government's program of domestic reform
for 2020 could change this.
Proposed budget cuts will particularly
affect public spending on healthcare, education, social security, and local governance.
New labor laws will curtail the rights of employees. A land
privatization bill, also planned for 2020, has proved
highly
unpopular as people fear a repeat of the highly corrupt post-Soviet privatization process in the 1990s when criminal groups (some
of them linked to current oligarchs) managed to capture the main Soviet industrial assets at the expense of the population at large.
In our view, these measures may, in the long term, contribute to turning Ukraine into a more stable and better functioning state.
However, their short-term consequences include decreasing social standards, higher unemployment, and a
continuation of Ukraine's brain and skills drain.
About 1m people leave Ukraine every year.
At the same time, "de-oligarchisation" is proceeding slowly. The
return from self-imposed
exile of Igor Kolomoyskiy, Zelenskiy's principal backer in the presidential campaign, has intensified oligarchic turf wars, pitting
Kolomoyskiy against another businessman Rinat Akhmetov, and his increasing power base in the east. This
power struggle
further contributes to continuing instability in Ukraine and decreases the near-term prospects of the political clean up and
economic recovery that Zelenskiy had promised.
A deteriorating socio-economic situation and lack of visible and tangible progress on "de-oligarchisation" will not only
affect already radicalised veterans but could also galvanise a much larger cross-section of Ukraine's population into yet another
mass protest movement.
Geopolitical Reset?
Ukraine's continuing domestic instability is, in part, driven by the larger geopolitical game of
competitive influence seeking between
Russia and the West in the contested post-Soviet neighbourhood.
By being drawn
into the domestic politics of the U.S. and the ongoing impeachment
inquiry of Donald Trump , Zelenskiy has exposed Ukraine's vulnerability to external pressure, including from its Western partners.
Add to this Trump's personal antipathy to Ukraine (allegedly
describing it
as a "corrupt country full of terrible people") and the willingness of European leaders
to reset relations with Russia, and Ukraine's room for manoeuvre
appears even more diminished.
If Kyiv does resist negotiations with Russia over Donbas this will play well domestically, but it could further strain relations
with Ukraine's main backers in the West on whose support it continues
to depend heavily, including for
the implementation of much-needed domestic reforms.
For the time being, Zelenskiy still enjoys very high levels of public support of around 70 percent of respondents in
one survey published in early October. Worryingly, however, only 42 percent of these respondents trust his government and 47
percent trust his parliamentary faction.
Zelenskiy's own approval ratings also dropped from their previous high of around 80 percent by 10 percent in early September after
he secured a prisoner exchange with Russia. This indicates
that political capital may be ebbing away from the reform project with which he is identified because
popular expectations of fast and painless change cannot be met by Ukraine's new political class.
Unless Zelenskiy and his Western partners spend the president's remaining political capital well, a new wave of protests,
like those which
drove the Maidan Revolution, may yet be possible. If that happens, there will only be one winner from Ukraine's continuing instability:
Russia.
The views expressed are solely those of the authors and may or may not reflect those of Consortium News.
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The U.S.A. and the D.O.D. should not have American military trainers and advisors stationed in Ukraine nor should our government
be providing war material (some of it lethal) to the government of Ukraine. This military aid threatens the stability of the entire
region. The flagrant aggression of the U.S. A., Great Britain, and NATO into Ukraine's domestic affairs is a textbook example
of blatant balance-of-power geopolitics. As usual, this aggression is being directed and driven by such think tanks as the Atlantic
Council, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, and its junior American partner, the Council on Foreign relations. This
is a dangerous game that these two leading NATO countries are playing.
The Maidan coup was staged and orchestrated largely by the CIA, the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), USAID, and
the U.S. Department of State with the likely assistance of the British Secret Service. The staged Maidan Revolution and coup against
a democratically-elected president was the real aggression in Ukraine; the Russians naturally reacted to this aggression by protecting
their self-interest and their defensively strategic warm-water flank, Crimea.
Ukraine has an extremely diverse set of cultures and ethnicities within its borders. It has never been a truly independent
and unified nation. Throughout is long history that stretches back into antiquity it has been a battleground and a highway for
invading armies in both directions. NATO's gradual buildup in Ukraine follows in the footsteps of Napoleon and Hitler. Stephen
F. Cohen's new edition of "War with Russia?" is coming out in January 2020. Whether you agree with Professor Cohen's premises
for his argument it is worth taking a look at this gentleman's argument.
The U.S. military should depart immediately from Ukraine and the USG should stop funding Ukraine's government with any military
aid and assistance. Ukraine is looking a lot like the early pre-war stages in Vietnam. Nevertheless, Ukraine's governing system
is far more corrupt than the governing system of South Vietnam ever was.
Eugenie Basile , November 21, 2019 at 05:20
It is true that the only winner of the first Maidan was Russia. It got rid of a totally corrupt and financially broke snake
pit called Ukraine, while managing to secure Crimea and the strategic military port of Sevastopol. Now it is up to the EU and
US revolution organisers to keep on distributing cookies in order to prevent a total collapse of what is left of a divided country.
If a second Maidan occurs that would be a way for the West to get out of there in a hurry. The West has more to win than Russia,
this time.
Jimmy gates , November 21, 2019 at 01:19
CN live coverage of this, coupled with Oliver Stones two films "Ukraine on Fire " and "Revealing Ukraine " should help clear
up the confusion and crap that has been ladled on the public for over five years.
What we are seeing is not only a coup in Ukraine, but the destabilization of both the US and Russia in the stages of coup.
Crazily, the possibles for peace might be the collapse of the impeachment hoax and exposure of the plot that went haywire: that
two game show hosts were elected, in the US and Ukraine. The gods must be crazy.
Bob , November 22, 2019 at 03:20
Question; What happens now with Gazprom's offer to extend for another year the present contract due to lapse soon? Will the
new Prez be allowed to accept or even negotiate the offer?
Anonymot , November 20, 2019 at 22:16
The very small, but vigorous group who object loudly and the small, but vicious group that want to go to war over the Russian
province are probably the same crowd who were paid by our corrupt and one-eyed backers of the coup in the first place. Permanent
war is not desired by any citizenry anywhere, just those who sit in offices and decide by hocus pocus that it's a good idea. Our
one-eyed people (yes, there are some blood thirsty women at the top, too) need a pair of one-eye-correcting glasses. One-eyedness
causes a loss, not of vision so much as perspective.
Either they have made a brainless mess and lost everywhere they have initiated war since Korea or else endless wars and permanent
conflict are their policies. The latter is as stupid as the former. In each case, there is nothing realistically to be done to
stop it. It is ingrained into the way our entire political parties think as well as into the entire class of decision-makers in
each and every one of Washington's agencies. It's a mindset, not a few people. It was just as much both Clintons and Obama as
it was the Bush and Cheney gang. Trump is a wee bit special, because he has that mindset, but he's also foul and intellectually
retarded.
Note that those we prefer, Sanders, Warren, have not even whispered beyond a platitude here and there about foreign policy,
foreign affairs or foreign wars. The sole person who is running with a presidential mindset is strangely enough, a woman warrior,
Tulsi Gabbard! And her platform is to break up that mindset and deal with competitors with all of the strength this country has
left via diplomacy – and with peace as a goal. She also has her own progressive, but realistic domestic platform.
But Gabbard has been dumped on daily since she announced she was running, by who? Hillary the Billionaire (yes! billionaire!)
and the NYT that she controls policy-wise via a little clutch of her billionaire intimates and NYT stockholders and power brokers
from Ariadne Getty to Barry Diller. They are super-rich militants from NY and Hollywood and Wall Street, primarily backing Buttigeig.
The kind of intelligence, thoughtfulness, and independence that Gabbard has is anathema to The Bushes and Clintons, the Deep
State folks.
Otherwise there will be and endless supply of think tankers and one-eyed profs to stir up pots like Kiev and Zelenskis ad infinitum.
Robert Carl Miller , November 20, 2019 at 20:29
The US orchestrated the coup of 2014 using the fascists already in Ukraine and Ukrainian Americans (and children and grandchildren)
who were OUN-B and were brought to the US under the Crusade For Freedom. The first generation were stone-cold fascists who fought
alongside the Nazis during their invasion of the USSR. The current DNC/CIA alliance has planned for Ukraine to heat up the cold
war with Russia.
The problem is that the Ukrainian army is broken and aside from the fascist units most average Ukrainians don't want to fight
the Russians or their brothers in Donbas. The US is calculating that its military aid and some unmentioned US troops will be able
to overcome the Donbas by force. If the US and Ukraine somehow draw Russia into this fight, which is exactly what the US militarists
want, there will be one of two outcomes: Either Ukraine will be wiped out quickly by Russian forces or there will be a nuclear
war.
As Russia finishes its Nord Stream 2 and with multiple other gas pipelines in the works to feed Europe's energy needs the US
energy industry, which constructed LNG terminals along the Atlantic Coast, has seen its dreams dashed. No longer does selling
LNG to Europe make any economic sense for.
Wait! We spent 5 Billion on regime change, a color revolution that succeeded only because we hired neo-Nazi shock troops to
spearhead the ouster of Yanukovych, a duly elected oligarch. Months later, after Ukraine's public sector had crumbled, in came
Biden with Burisma and Cargill with its GMO, which highlighted the neoliberal intentions behind the Western coup sponsorship.
Fortunes were made in the energy and agricultural sector, during the same winter that many Ukrainians were without enough heat
and food. But, that 's neoliberalism for you. Their suffering was just what we intended.
The civil unrest began only when Yanukovych rejected the EU-IMF austerity package in the November preceding the February coup
d'etat. That package required that Ukraine assist NATO militarily, buy weapons from US defense contractors, cut pensions, cut
social services, and slash the already tattered safety net while privatizing commonly held state assets. But, interestingly enough,
it required Ukraine to increase its military spending
The world bankers were intent upon squeezing the last bit of juice left in the Ukrainian turnip, In other words, we wanted
Yanukovych to become as pliant as the drunken Yeltsin was in the hands of Bill Clinton in 1993, which marked the beginning of
a disastrous and deadly decade for the Russian Federation.
Instead, Yanukovych, sounding the death knell for his own regime, rejected the EU -IMF austerity package, compounding this
mortal sin by signing an energy deal with the Russian Federation, which agreed to finance Ukrainian debt at 5% when international
bankers were charging 12% to finance this crippled country's loan. Putin was actually nicer to this basket case than we were,
though his motives are not altruistic, though perhaps not as draped in pretext as our own.
All the above is true and verifiable, but no one in the Lamestream Corporate Media, which includes MSNBC as well as FOX, will
report the current Ukrainian crisis in the context of the above facts. Those who master the world economy, having already mastered
the politicians and the media, can dominate and set the parameters of the debate without notice or without drawing attention to
themselves and their agendas.
vinnieoh , November 21, 2019 at 12:28
John: Very good to remind us of these facts. I too remember that as Ukraine floundered in bankruptcy both Russia and the EU/US
proffered competing $15b rescue packages. Thanks for revealing the contrasting details of those offerings, which I wasn't fully
aware of.
As many here have already noted, how does it favor Russia to have a broken, unstable neighbor on its border? Even before these
authors served up that closing bon motte, their claim that the usual austerity cruelty measures of the IMF, WB, etc. will "in
the end" help Ukraine, was a dead giveaway.
And I am head-scratchingly curious why CN would post a piece such as this. To give us some light entertainment, like shooting
ducks in a barrel? I do agree with one of the authors' assertions though, that Zelenskiy's situation is precarious, as is anyone,
anywhere the US is intent on spreading its tentacles.
So Zelenskiy wins an election by 70% on a platform to normalize relations with Russia and in addition his Servant of the People
party have a majority in the Verkhovna Rada. What is the threat he faces? What "challenge"? Is the writer thinking of the extremists
from western Ukraine rising again to produce a new anti-Russia hate-fest on Maidan, supported by the usual western meddlers? Not
many of the comments seem very convinced.
Mark Thomason , November 20, 2019 at 15:48
The Maidan events were protest against specific problems. None of those problems have changed. They have not even been addressed.
It has just been revolving abusers, "new boss same as the old boss."
Overlaid on that has been war, and all that entails, draining what remained of Ukraine's hopes.
The West has seen in that only what it wanted to see, which has little to do with what motivated the Maidan events. Those were
used, manipulated by the West, not addressed or helped.
The new guy could do better, perhaps only because he could hardly do worse. However, to say it might all blow up on him is
only to say that pressure has been building since failure of the last effort, and someday it is likely to blow.
Anna , November 20, 2019 at 12:34
"Unless Zelenskiy and his Western partners spend the president's remaining political capital well there will only be one winner
from Ukraine's continuing instability: Russia." By Stefan Wolff, professor of international security at the University of Birmingham
and Tatyana Malyarenko, a professor of international relations at the National University Odesa Law Academy.
Why does the tenor of this article bring to mind the Integrity Initiative? See: mintpressnews.com/the-integrity-initiative-and-the-uks-scandalous-information-war/253014/
"The Integrity Initiative claims that it is "counter[ing] Russian disinformation and malign influence," and indeed, the main players
behind it appear intent on hyping the Russian threat to justify ramped up military budgets and a long-term war footing."
Guy , November 20, 2019 at 12:31
The deep state will continue to milk this Ukraine nightmare for their continuous mfg.of weapons and creating animosities between
the West and Russia. The deep divisions within Ukraine will play into the hands of the nefarious ones that crave chaos, the destroyers
of nations.
TimN , November 20, 2019 at 08:20
I see I'm not the person who was flummoxed by the conclusion of the article. The biggest outside obstacle to peace and stability
is the "West," of course. The "West?" You mean the US. Say that, not the euphemism.
Guy , November 20, 2019 at 13:11
I know what you mean and I hear you, as I am just as guilty of using the term "West" .It is the US which is driving this nightmare
and not the total of Western nations either .Both the Democrats and the Republicans are really not in control of the governance
of the United States .That control of the corrupted system as I see it ,is politically and judicially .The recently disclosed
Epstein pedophilia affair which is now clear that it had/has CIA and Mossad connections leads me to believe most of the politicians
and the legal system apparatus is deeply compromised and therefore have lost all control of good and fair governance if ever there
was such a thing .
Good point though ,it has become a habit to blame the West when in reality just certain factors of the West .I would certainly
include the UK in with the US as both being very compromised .
Donald Duck , November 20, 2019 at 05:45
The present situation in Ukraine is just how the US/EU wanted it. A permanent irritant on Russia's western borders. Unfortunately
this means that Ukraine is a malfunctioning state – the poorest in Europe – which is literally bleeding people at the rate described.
As a failed state Ukraine is going deeper into a hole of poverty and misery which will eventually lead to a national disintegration
as the various oblasts decided to go their own way.
Hans Zandvliet , November 19, 2019 at 21:49
It sounds to me like a rather russophobic article, like very many Ukranians are. I find it quite srtiking that the authors
are still using the term Maidan Revolution, while Stratfor's CEO George Friedman called it "the most blatant coup in history".
Anyone who still has doubts that it was a coup should watch Oliver Stone's documentary "Ukraine on Fire"
Russia is not even a signatory of the Minsk Agreements. Russia, just like France and Germany were only mediators in the negotiations
between the ethnic Russians of the Donbas region and the fascist regime in Kiev. Russia has absolutely nothing to "win" from a
divided and failed Ukrainian state on its borders. To Russia it's just a pain in the arse, which is what the military industrial
complex in Washington has gained by their Ukrainian coup.
John A , November 20, 2019 at 10:37
Exactly. As a rule of thumb, if an article uses 'Kyiv', a recent Ukrainianisation of the long accepted 'Kiev' in English, it
is going to be anti-Russia.
Eventually, there is going to have to be a negotiated settlement between the breakaway republics and whichever puppet is
the president in Kiev. The longer the wait till such negotiations start, the worse conditions will get in rump Ukraine. Russia
has no advantage in whether negotiations start this year, next year or some distant point in the future.
Alan MacDonald , November 19, 2019 at 21:47
Promising situation for new alignment of interests
DavidH , November 19, 2019 at 20:58
Something doesn't seem right.
If Kyiv does resist negotiations with Russia over Donbas this will play well domestically, but it could further strain relations
with Ukraine's main backers in the West on whose support it continues to depend heavily, including for the implementation of
much-needed domestic reforms.
If the majority elected him to end the war, why would it play well domestically? There seems to be a wave of this, and then
a wave of that. Sort of same picture in Bolivia too.
Thanks to CN and the writers for news we never hear (though we certainly should). Great embeds too. How's the new prosecutor
doing? And how is the war in the east presently being fought? I think I heard remarks on these things on Loud&Clear. But
I switched to a "hotspot" in August. Was thinking then that all Loud&Clear shows were "saveable" and also that "CN Live!" was
saveable the former aren't, the latter only a few. And turns out I don't always feel like going out after work seeking free YiFi
to stream all this stuff while I'm sit'n in a joint like I imagined I would. So, for me for the most part it's gotta be in "print."
It would be nice if yall could do like Nader's Radio Hour, and make all the old CN Lives saveable.
Consortiumnews.com , November 19, 2019 at 22:05
Every minute of every episode of CN Live! can be found on our YouTube page.
Personanongrata , November 19, 2019 at 19:27
Unless Zelenskiy and his Western partners spend the president's remaining political capital well, a new wave of protests,
like those which drove the Maidan Revolution, may yet be possible. If that happens, there will only be one winner from Ukraine's
continuing instability: Russia.
How does Russia win with an unstable Ukraine on it's western border?
AnneR , November 20, 2019 at 08:17
You have pointed out to me – thank you – another crystal clear indicator that these two authors are anti-Russian, profoundly
so.
It absolutely does not favor Russia to have an unstable, chaotic, fascist and US supported, instigated, militarized Ukraine
on its border. That is utter baloney, and they have to know that.
After all, that was one of the reasons for Soviet Russia spreading beyond its national borders after WWII – to create a buffer
zone against any more invasions from the west, to stop western nations killing Russians by the millions, to stop any attempt by
the west to grab Russian resources (still on NATO's cards).
Russia wants a peaceful, friendly neighbor, borderland country – not a virulent, dangerous chaotic mess one.
jo6pac , November 19, 2019 at 19:07
"Unless Zelenskiy and his Western partners spend the president's remaining political capital well"
His western partners the cia and soros ngos are his problem, I do hope he can succeed but the powers to be are against
him and the Ukraine citizens.
RJB , November 19, 2019 at 18:01
What does Russia gain by Ukraine's continued instability?
luke , November 19, 2019 at 16:35
Poor analysis. Am I as a working class lad seriously that much more informed than a professor whos life should be dedicated
to studying this?
No mention of the US involvement in the coup. No mention of the word coup. No mention of fascists, the term used to describe
US armed autonomous fascist battalions was 'right wing militias'. Top it off with the opinion that neoliberal budget cuts will
eventually help things, because a quick look at the history books tells us no such thing.
Makes me think of a professor I know who told me how proud he was that the US has the freedom to make a film documenting Cheney's
war crimes.
I responded that it made me sick that he could watch such films and still be a pathetic apologist.
He shrugged it off and went back to his overpaid position poisoning the youth. If he had the opinions I have, he wouldn't be
a professor though would he?
vinnieoh , November 21, 2019 at 11:54
luke: You are my father.
Remember all the hokum and "experts" paraded on the MSM during W's assault on Iraq? There was one ever-present talking head
from the ME (I've forgotten his name) that was so obviously a US boot-licker that he made me nauseous each time I saw him.
Very good observations and comment.
Martin - Swedish citizen , November 19, 2019 at 15:59
Thank you for this overview. It is good that the corruption and economic disaster are pointed out – as they have been in polls
as the biggest problem in the minds of the citizens. 1 million emigrants per year is a catastrophe.
You write:
"If Kyiv does resist negotiations with Russia over Donbas this will play well domestically, but it could further strain relations
with Ukraine's main backers in the West "
As you explain, this would please the far right (fascist) paramilitary groups and extreme nationalists from Galicia and Volhynia,
quite a small minority.
How about the Russian-speaking half or more of Ukrainians and the Russian ethnic group, making up a majority? Those who share
most of their culture with citizens of Russia? That have lots of ties there?
Because of this and also common sense, wouldn't many think that peace and stability with Russia would benefit Ukraine?
What do you see that Russia stands to gain from continued problems in Ukraine? Surely, Russia (and Ukraine) would be much better
off with peace, safety, stability and close ties and trade between these very close sibling nations.
This concluding remark lacks argument, is reasonably unfounded and quite simply silly.
Martin - Swedish citizen , November 19, 2019 at 16:02
To clarify: with "This concluding remark", I mean the concluding remark in the article, that only Russia stands to win.
Jeff Harrison , November 19, 2019 at 15:43
In signing up with the US and EU, there is one guaranteed loser – the Ukrainian people.
"... Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references? Might have been a non-biased article, but many of us will never know... ..."
"... They certainly aren't National Socialists, and arguably not nationalists. Nationalists are open to what is best for "the nation" regardless of where it lies on the political spectrum. Since they don't consider the people in Donbas to be part of "the nation", that means, if anything, they are useful idiots of Zionism. ..."
In my July 25th article " Zelenskii's dilemma " I pointed
out the fundamental asymmetry of the Ukrainian power configuration following Zelenskii's crushing victory over Poroshenko: while
a vast majority of the Ukrainian people clearly voted to stop the war and restore some kind of peace to the Ukraine, the real levers
of power in the post-Maidan Banderastan are all held by all sorts of very powerful, if also small, minority groups including:
The various "oligarchs" (Kolomoiskii, Akhmetov, etc.) and/or mobsters Arsen Avakov's internal security forces including some "legalized"
Nazi death squads The various non-official Nazi deathsquads (Parubii) The various western intelligence agencies who run various groups
inside the Ukraine The various western financial/political sponsors who run various groups inside the Ukraine The so-called "Sorosites"
(соросята) i.e. Soros and Soros-like sponsored political figures The many folks who want to milk the Ukraine down to the last drop
of Ukrainian blood and then run
These various groups all acted in unison, at least originally, during and after the Euromaidan. This has now dramatically changed
and these groups are now all fighting each other. This is what always happens when things begin to turn south and the remaining loot
shrinks with every passing day,
Whether Zelenskii ever had a chance to use the strong mandate he received from the people to take the real power back from these
groups or not is now a moot point: It did not happen and the first weeks of Zelenskii's presidency clearly showed that Zelenskii
was, indeed, in " free fall ": instead of becoming
a "Ukrainian Putin" Zelenskii became a "Ukrainian Trump" – a weak and, frankly, clueless leader, completely outside his normal element,
whose only "policy" towards all the various extremist minorities was to try to appease them, then appease them some more, and then
even more than that. As a result, a lot of Ukrainians are already speaking about "Ze" being little more than a "Poroshenko 2.0".
More importantly, pretty much everybody is frustrated and even angry at Zelenskii whose popularity is steadily declining.
... ... ...
Another major problem for Zelenskii are two competing narratives: the Ukronazi one and, shall we say, the "Russian" one. I have
outlined the Ukronazi one just above and now I will mention the competing Russian one which goes something like this:
The Euromaidan was a completely illegal violent coup against the democratically elected President of the Ukraine, whose legitimacy
nobody contested, least of all the countries which served as mediators between Poroshenko and the rioters and who betrayed their
word in less than 24 hours (a kind of a record for western politicians and promises of support!).
... ... ...
Some of the threats made by these Ukronazis are dead serious and the only person who, as of now, kinda can keep the Ukrainian
version of the Rwandan " Interahamwe " under control would probably be Arsen Avakov, but since he himself is a hardcore
Nazi nutcase, his attitude is ambiguous and unpredictable. He probably has more firepower than anybody else, but he was a pure "
Porokhobot " (Poroshenko-robot) who, in many ways, controlled Poroshenko more than Poroshenko controlled him. The best move
for Zelenskii would be to arrest the whole lot of them overnight (Poroshenko himself, but also Avakov, Parubii, Iarosh, Farion, Liashko,
Tiagnibok, etc.) and place a man he totally trusts as Minister of the Interior. Next, Zelenskii should either travel to Donetsk or,
at least, meet with the leaders of the LDNR and work with them to implement the Minsk Agreements. That would alienate the Ukronazis
for sure, but it would give Zelenskii a lot of popular support.
Needless to say, that is not going to happen. While Zelenskii's puppet master Kolomoiskii would love to stick this entire gang
in jail and replace them with his own men, it is an open secret that powerful interest groups in the US have told Zelenskii "don't
you dare touch them". Which is fine, except that this also means "don't you dare change their political course either".
...are going through the famous Kübler-Ross stages of griefs: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance: currently,
most of them are zig-zagging between bargaining and depression; acceptance is still far beyond their – very near – horizon. Except
that Zelenskii has nothing left to bargain with.
Thank you for a rational article about Ukraine. The sad thing is that it might take years to reach the "acceptance" phase.
It would take someone like Hitler to clean out the stables. Arrest is not a viable option as they will bribe their way out.
These people need to be put down like rabid dogs. That is the only way to put an end to their mischief and it would be a deterrent
to their replacements.
Personally, I suspect that the Ukraine is being deliberately depopulated to make way for waves of "refugees" from Israel. Another
country that is still in the "denial" phase. Its military and political leaders know full-well that their strategic aims have
all failed. The boot is now firmly on the other foot.
I suspect that Crimea was their preferred destination and hence the massive non-stop propaganda against Russia on that score.
To give you an idea of how ridiculous it has all become, the UK no longer accepts medical degrees awarded by universities in Crimea.
Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references? Might have been a non-biased article, but
many of us will never know...
I suspect that the Ukraine is being deliberately depopulated to make way for waves of "refugees" from Israel.
You got that right – what it's all about is building a New Khazaria. But they're neither giving up on their Greater Israel
project between the two rivers, and hence more wars, conflict and chaos to drive out the native Arabs from the Middle East.
I suspect that Crimea was their preferred destination and hence the massive non-stop propaganda against Russia on that score.
@AWMThey certainly aren't National Socialists, and arguably not nationalists. Nationalists are open to what is best for
"the nation" regardless of where it lies on the political spectrum. Since they don't consider the people in Donbas to be part
of "the nation", that means, if anything, they are useful idiots of Zionism.
@bob sykes Kolomoiskii is the real hidden owner/controller of the company that bribed the Bidens. He has a finger in lots
of pies. His pretense to leaning towards Russia is his way to try to get the Americans to stop attempts to get at the many millions
that he stole from his own Ukrainians bank – fake loans to his companies.
Of course, the Russians understand all of that. This theater is aimed at the Americans – not at the Russians.
For the Ukrainian state to break up, there need to be some forces interested in a break-up. You won't find such forces inside
the Ukraine.
What is Ukrainian South-East? In pure political terms, "South-East" is a bunch of oligarchs, who are all integrated into Ukrainian
system, and have no reason to seek independence from Kiev, especially if it means getting slapped with Western sanctions.
Even the Kremlin doesn't show much interest in breaking up the Ukraine, so why the hell would it break up?
It's worth pointing out that the so-called "Novorossia movement" started out as Akhmetov's project to win concessions from
new Kiev regime. It was then quickly hijacked by Strelkov, a man who actually wanted to break up the Ukraine, and it is because
of Strelkov, that Donetsk and Lugansk are now de-facto independent. Without similar figures to lead secessionist movements elsewhere
in the Ukraine, this break-up that Saker keeps talking about will never happen.
His ratings must be sky-high, because otherwise I cannot imagine why Fox would allow him to continue to use their network as
a medium to broadcast common sense.
Of course the Dems are making it so easy.
Schiff, Kent, Taylor, Yanovitch -- what a pathetic, nauseating crew.
@Alfred I had the same thoughts. Zelenskii should show a similar coffin with the text
"This one is still empty" and then start rounding up the terrorists. He finally has a good
excuse.
Thank you Saker and Unz for the very interesting article .
I wonder what has been the role of Germany in the Ukrainian disaster . ...I have the
feeling , just the suspicion , that they contributed to the ucranian disaster out of their
genetic Drang nach Osten Nordic greed , is that right ?
Anyway since the Ukrainian disaster the cohesion of the EU is going going down . Germany
which was gifted with the german reunification , is less and less trusted spetially in south
Europe , and even less in the EU far west , in England which is going out of the EU .
Most of the people in the EU would like to keep collaborating with the US , of course ,
but also with Russia and with the rest of the world . Most of the people in the UE are scared
of the dark forces operating in Ukraine trying to provoke a war with Russia .
The stupid name-calling like the term "ukronazi" makes this article look like a rant like
North Korean communiques or the ravings of some Arab despot's propagandist. It is not better
than calling "The Saker" a "Moskal", "Sovok" or "Putler's stooge" etc. He should keep this
lingo to directly "debating" "Ukronazis" on twitter or youtube commentst etc. not for an
article that is supposed to be a serious analysis.
I understand that it is hard for a Russian nationalist to accept that the majority of
Ukrainians don't want to belong to their dream Russkiy Mir, they were seduced by the West,
which is more attractive with all its failings, because mostly of simple materialistic
reasons. Ukrainians happily go to EU countries that now allow them in as guest workers. The
fact, like it or not that majority of them chose the West over Russkiy Mir despite being very
close to Russians in culture, language, history etc. He is still in the first stage of grief
it seems.
All in all, Ukrainians are probably way above average in most human characteristics. The
area of Ukraine is by planetary standards one of the best available: arable land, great
rivers, Black see, pleasant and liveable.
But it is 2019 and life in Ukraine is barely better than it was 25-50 years ago,
population has actually dropped from its peak in early 1990's. Millions of Ukrainians live
abroad (I know some of them) and have – to be polite – at best an ambivalent
attitude towards their homeland. Almost all of them prefer to be somewhere else, even to
become someone else.
Now why is that? A normal society would have enough introspection to discuss this, to look
for answers. Throwing a temper-tantrum on a big square in Kiev every few years is not looking
for a solution. That is escapism, Orange-this, Maidan-that, 'Russians bad', 'we are going
West', 'golden toilets', and always 'Stalin did it'.
I don't agree with the facile name-calling that sees Nazis everywhere and exaggerates
throw-away symbolism. But Ukraine has not been functioning and it can't go like this much
longer. Not because it will collapse, it won't, but because during an era of general
prosperity Ukraine can't be a unstable exception (oh, I get it, they are better than Moldova,
good for them.)
Rebellions against geography are doomed. Projecting one's personal frustrations on
external enemies (Kremlin!) has never worked. Ukraine needs rationality – accepting
that they will not be in EU, that attempting to join Nato would destroy Ukraine, and that
they can't beat Russia in a war. And following advise of half-mad and half-ignorant
well-wishers from Washington or Brussels is a road to ruin. Nulands, Bidens and Tusks will
never live in Ukraine, they really deeply don't care about it. They have no skin in that
game, it is just entertainment for them.
Or alternatively you can pray that Russia collapses – good luck waiting for
that.
There is not much 'drang' left in Germany, so I think this is mostly fingers on the map
post dinner empty talk.
in 1945 the jewery asked Stalin to give Crimea to the jews , Stalin refused
Crimea is a jewel, but has one big problem: not enough water. But that's also true about
Izrael, maybe there is a deep genetic memory of coming out of a desert environment.
During WWII, Germany actually established settlements in Crimea. Think about it: there is
a massive war, you have like 1-2 years, short on transport and resources, and you start
sending settlers to Crimea – that's how much drang-nach-osten types wanted it.
And the Turks, etc This must be driving them absolutely nuts.
The mexicans are able to make fun of themselves , that`s a good thing . They have a joke
which aplies also to Ukraina ( and other countries )
The mexicans say : when God created Mexico He gave Mexico everything ; land , mountains ,
plains , tropical forests , deserts , two oceans , agriculture , gold , silver , oil . then
God saw how beautiful and perfect Mexico was and He though that He should also give something
bad to the country to prevent the sin of pride , and then he populated Mexico with pure
pendejos ,( idiots ) .
@AWM "Is it not possible to have an article on Ukraine without all the N@ZI references?
If you want a decent analysis of current events in the Ukraine, which is what The Saker
provides, I guess you'll just have to put up with his terminology.
The world won't miss a thing if Curmudgeon or AWM goes off in a huff, to sit on his toilet
and read the "one joke per dump" volume lodged on the tank and stops reading The Saker's very
thorough analysis as a protest action!
@Anon My experience is that Ukrainians individually are far from being pendejos .
But they are unable to act as a group or as a nation. (Well, they 'act', but it mostly
somehow fails.)
Maybe it is the relative shallow and heterogenous history of Ukraine. Or – and this
is what I have observed – a fundamental inner disloyalty to the Ukraine as a homeland.
When one observes the assorted Porkys, Timoshenkas, Yanuks, the oligarchs, but also the
crowds on Maidan, I get a sense that they are all about to leave Ukraine or are thinking
about leaving. Societies can't be built with one foot always at the airport, or in an old car
in a 5-km column waiting on the border of Poland. Or Russia.
Another good article – thanks – Yep, the US/EU NWO is not going to let their
"West Ukraine Isis" battalions and intel gang lose their funding , arms trafficking ops, or
terrorist reputation. This is a no win situation in Ukraine and the West knows it –
Even if NovoRossiya gets some independence, the Ukraine Isis will/can reek havoc and murder
for a long time along the border. The modern Cheka { Ukraine Isis } has been modified for the
security of the new Farmland owners – Monsanto, Cargill, DuPont and the rest of the
Globalist Corporations and their ports close to Odessa.
One point of contention since it wasn't made clear in this article – Novorussia
consists of Luhansk and Donetsk, but not Kharkov. While Kharkov has more Russians than most
other provinces of Ukraine do, it does not have a plurality like Donetsk and Luhansk.
All of Ukraine's doomsayers have been crying about Ukraine's demise for the lat 25
years, yet the fact is that it' s getting stronger and stronger every year,
USA diaspora keeps on delivering.
Shoutout to quarter/half Poles USA citizens LARPing as Ukrainian patriots in the
comments.
@Felix KeverichEven the Kremlin doesn't show much interest in breaking up the
Ukraine, so why the hell would it break up?
Follow the money my friend!
Some provinces send much more money to Kiev then they get back in "services". So long as
more loans from the EU, The USA and the IMF were forthcoming, that situation was not too bad.
Now, the spigot is being closed. Hence the sad face of Mr Z when he met Trump in
Washington.
This means that the provinces that are losing most from this internal transfer are going
to be strongly motivated to stop sending money to Kiev. Kiev will lose control and that will
fragment the country.
The Donbass was a big contributor to Kiev and got little in return – that was a
major reason for their dissatisfaction. Everyone there could see that Kiev sent the money
west and kept much for itself.
If the French provinces were to stop sending money to Paris, the Yellow movement would be
totally unnecessary.
@awry About 2.5 million Ukrainians have "emigrated" (you could also say "fled") to the RF
since 2014.
Per Bloomberg most of the outflow not to Russia has been to countries of Eastern Europe, esp.
Poland.
@AP "Ukraine was historically a marsh of Poland for centuries before it was a historical
marsh of Russia"
That was mostly Galicia and Volhynia. It is a tiny part of today's the Ukraine. In these
areas, the Poles were landowners, the Jews their rent/tax collectors and the peasants were
Ukrainian-speaking Slavs. Now, they are planning to sell the best farmland to "foreigners"
(i.e. Jews) and the Slavs will become serfs once again.
@Mr. Hack The problem with your argument is that the 'war' in the east was entirely
predicable. So was Crimea leaving and joining Russia. The people in charge in Kiev –
presumably with 3-digit IQ – would think about it, plan for it, etc They obviously
didn't. Instead they provided a needed catalyst to make it worse by voting in February 2014
to ban Russian language in official use, and the idiotic attacks on Russian speakers like in
Odessa, that were neither prevented nor punished. The other side – in this case Russia
and Russian speakers living in Donbas and Crimea – rationally took care of their own
interests. Post-Maidan Kiev handed them all they could on a silver platter while busying
themselves with silly slogans and videos of golden saunas.
Russia is actually one of the least susceptible countries to an economic collapse in the
world – it is largely self-sufficient, has enormous resources that others will always
buy, and has a very minimal percentage of its economy that deals with foreign trade. What
they are susceptible to is the loss of value for their currency – and that has already
largely happened since 2014. When it comes to energy, the countries that are low-cost
producers are least impacted – who you should worry about are the numerous higher-cost
producers like US shale, coal miners, or LNG gas that have huge upfront fixed costs and
built-in high transportation costs. Russia and Saudis will be fine.
Back to the drawing board, what exactly is the plan in Kiev? If they know that having a
war costs them investments, how do they end that war? It is highly unlikely that it would end
with a victorious Kiev army conquering Donetsk (or Crimea). So what's the plan?
It's amazing how spectacularly inept all these interventions over the last decades have been.
Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Yemen, the coup in Turkey but also Ukraine.
And I know that in the ME, the Isrseli policy, as iterated by Michael Orin is to let all
sides bleed each other to death, and that part has been relatively successful until
recently.
But in Ukraine, they were going to consolidate their control over the country from Kiev
and force-march the Russians out of Sevastopol. And that part didn't work at all, except as
leverage to impose sanctions on Russia; but the long term goal of using Ukraine to overthrow
Putin is now stuck in the Donbas.
My point being that it is the great fortune of the world that these criminal nitwits and
fools in the State (War) Department and their helpers in the "intelligence" community are so
arrogant and incompetent.
@Anon Merkel (who herself was studying in Donetsk for few months) definitely has a hand
in ze EuroUkrainian mess.
Afterall she met with Right Sector representatives one dayt before the final, bloody part
of the coup started. And that meeting of "reporting on delivering at our commitments and
asking Merkel about her delivery of her commitments" both with the next day start of "offence
at the government" was announced by Right Sector yet another day before, 16 February
2014.
However i have reservations about Merkel representing German peoples, especially some
alleged "genetical" trend of them to invade eastwards.
It was public, that Merkel's everything including public phone is spied upon by USA
"intelligence community", and Merkel considered it normal and proper.
So it is clearly stated what she considers her allegiance and whom she considers her
employees. Not citizens of Germany.
"Each of these countries is as inorganic and disunited as Ukraine, or worse, made up as they
are of various racial and ethnic groups who don't identify with each other."
I am dubious about this suggestion. But more importantly, Ukraine or the Ukraine has had a
violent revolution about every ten years. You simply cannot develop a stable government,
economy or safe social system if you you overturn the the government via violence every ten
tears.
That is the key differences and essential to any successful government, and more so for a
democracy that holds as innate belief, a tolerance for difference even competing ideas held
by its population. It is as if the only the only we are exporting is revolution as solution
to differences.
@Mr. Hack > Russia has never been able to lead with a carrot, but only with a stick.
Russia offered dozen billions of loans and years ahead orders for Ukrainian industries.
Those that Yatzenyuk begged to be re-started when he destroyed democratic government of
Ukraine.
EuroMaidan tried to stole the carrot from Ukraine, and while it succeeded in stealing what
Ukraine already picked, about 10%, the rest was kept safe of usurpers' reach, and so they
started looting Ukrainian economy instead. Hrivna fallen 3-fold – more than ruble.
> Positive outside influence into Ukraine's internal development in the form of
investments and economic development
EuroMaidan usurpers stopped real and ongoing investments from China and Russia by looting
what investments arrived into Ukraine already. But at least they got $5 billions of
investments from Nulland.
I like how "economic development" is listed as "outside influence". I thought that any
state or nation would claim being capable of their own economic development, but for
EuroMaidania it is quoted as some miracle that can only be given from outside.
> foreign investments being delayed until the war in the east is resolved
And that was why EuroMaidan usurpers invaded Donbass and started the war. To preclude
investments from the West after they stopped investments form China and Russia.
> create a chaotic situations
EuroMaidan proponent blaming chaotic situations. Precious. "Bees against honey"
movement.
> Since the West changed the dynamics of the energy game around the world
Did it? how exactly? By making Ukrainian pipelines liability no one wants to touch with a
pole?
> It's learned to better feed itself, and that's about it
But that is exactly what Ukraine knew how to do, and what EuroMaidania can not do.
While Russia is gaining this experience – EuroMaidania was and is destroying it, for
the sake of being "not like Russia". Way to go!
> One more jolt like in 2014
You mean the one when rouble fallen two-fold and hrivna three-fold?
Guess if the West could do it again – they would. But they can't.
> where are Russia's automobiles, televisions, medical equipment, computers,
pharmaceuticals etc; within the world markeplace?
Russia is not packaging consumer goods. Russia is sending technologies, which others pack
as consumer goods.
Ukraine could become one of those salesmen, packing Russian technologies into pretty wraps
and selling around.
EuroMaidan usurpers feared that and prevented that.
EuroMaidan even destroyed Antonov company, which was one of just 4 companies in the world
capable of building large airframes. Ensuring AirBus+Boeing+Tupolev/Ilyushin would have one
competitor less. And as Antonov was el-cheapo vendor with strategy based on dumping –
it was especially dangerous for Russian company, of the three. Thank you, guys, for removing
this riddance out of Russian pathway. You did great service!
@Hapalong Cassidy Beckow> the crowds on Maidan, I get a sense that they are all about
to leave Ukraine or are thinking about leaving.
You do not need to "have a feeling"
The promise of "visa-less living and working in EU" was exactly what EuroMaidan crowd
paraded as their aim and treasure, somehow magically warranted by the "Deep Association" that
Yatzenyuk and Poroshenko later dragged feet for months, trying to delay signing of this
economy suicide pact.
They were very public and honest about it. They claimed Yanukovich was somehow putting
ball and chain on them all by giving the second thought to orders from Brussels. Aid in
leaving Ukraine was the price they sold Ukrainian economy for. Ther were never shy in 2014 to
speak about it.
Hapalong Cassidy> While Kharkov has more Russians than most other provinces of Ukraine
do, it does not have a plurality like Donetsk and Luhansk.
There is a point. Kharkov in North-East and Odessa in South-West were trading cities,
routing the official and smuggled goods streams and hosting the largest foreign goods
markets. This clearly had impact upon mindsets of citizens and even more of cities
elites.
People in Kharkov went to the streets right after the coup commited and without support
they were at least equally numerous to all-Ukraine sponsored gathering of EuroMaidan #2.
But their leaders did not seek for independence, Kharkov city mayor Kernes openly shook hands
with Andrey "White Fuhrer" Byletsky and expressed his care about his (not Kharkov citizens)
safety in the night of Rymarskaya street murders, 2014 March 14th AFAIR.
People in Kharkov went against nazi from westernmost Ukraine regions (and even policemen)
and stormed those out of their district government building. Who else did then?
They had a huge impulse, but they also focused the most efforts from usurpers to deflect
and dissipate it. And little free resources the usurpers had back then.
Month later, in April, Kharkov was exhausted and pacified. But other regions of Ukraine were
overlooked those two months.
However, it was that first month which gave people in Donetsk and Lugansk both time and
examples to understand what is really going on (it was almost unbelievable that something
like that can actually happen in XXI century in Europe, wasn't it?) and learn their Ukrainian
elites are prostituting them, and then find some other leaders which would have enough skin
in the game to not sell them out.
You may rightly say Kharkov citizens did not resist for long. But have to admit the
resistance of Donbass and Lugansk was in significant part based upon time Kharkov bought them
in March and April 2014, and upon self-exposing that Kharkov's fleeting but furious
resistance forced EuroMaidan usurpers into.
"All, repeat, ALL the steps taken to sever crucial economic and cultural links between Russia
and the Ukraine were decided upon by Ukrainian leaders, never by Russia who only replied
symmetrically when needed.
Even with international sanctions directed at her, Russia successfully survived both the
severance of ties with the Ukraine and the AngloZionist attempts at hurting the Russian
economy. In contrast, severing economic ties with Russia was a death-sentence for the
Ukrainian economy which has now become completely deindustrialized."
No wonder saker deletes posts to his website containing info like these:
The top trade partner of *the* Ukraine is Russia. So his thesis is a little 'shoddy math'
ish. The links have not been severed as he pretends.
" the severance of ties with Russia " The Ukraine is more tied to Russia than any other
country, by recent trade volumes (as well as in traditional culture). Saker doesn't like
these facts to muddy up his thesis.
This means that the provinces that are losing most from this internal transfer are going
to be strongly motivated to stop sending money to Kiev.
You don't get it. Ukraine's South-Eastern provinces are inanimate objects . They
have no consciousness, no self-interest or free will. They don't decide anything.
Donbass never decided to break away from the Ukraine. That choice was made for it by
Strelkov, when he and his men occupied Slovyansk and began an armed confrontation.
@Anon The Ukraine used to export something like $20 billion worth of goods to Russia
annually. It's now closer to $5 billion, and Ukrainians are a lot poorer as a result.
@Felix Keverich The point is saker maintains it is completely de-industrialized. It is
'dead'. Total trade of >40 B all partners, isn't dead by a long shot. See what he says?
'Death sentence'. Far from it. A decrease isn't death. No doubt there has been a plunge. But
saker is over stating it. Russia is still a center of gravity for the Ukraine.
I am so sick and tired of hearing the term nazi this and nazi that when referring to the
situation in the Ukraine. The term nazi died in 1945 and should be left dead and buried. It
was a stupid word created by the British during the war because of their inability to
pronounce the German name for the NSDAP. The British and American media have a fetish for the
word and will call any "right-wing" movement "nazi" if given any opportunity. This shows
their total lack of creativity to come up with anything new and their deep obsession with
anything to do with Hitler which borders on religious worship. I say get rid of the usage of
the word on this site unless one is referring to the actual NSDAP party that existed until
1945.
@AWM You are an absurd cretin. Of course referring to current Ukraine as being controlled
by Nazi's is 100% accurate.
Ukronazis and Hitler Nazi's have many alignments with eachother:
1. Bizarre, fundamentally paganist usage of ahistoric/religious images from a millenia ago
as national symbols that should have had no connection to national identity of either state
in the 1930's or now ( swastika and Tryzub) even the UPA flag has more sense about it to any
"Ukrainian " state
2. Mass arrests and persecution of political opponents I'm fairly sure that Ukronazi's
have arrested ( and maybe even killed) far more people in their first 5 years, that the
Nazi's ever did in their 6 year, pre-war time in charge
3. Mass killing and torture of the people of the Donbass- now take on board this is with
Russia fighting the war of fighting the war that they are not even there and Russia/DNR/LNR
basically conducting huge talks with west/Banderastan and making huge concessions every time
they have been in a a hugely advantageous position or made a big breakthrough in the war.
Even Nazi's wouldn't have used such a lousy pretext for instigating war against the people of
Donbass – although at least the Nazi's could govern their state ukrops can't govern f
** k all without it descending into farce
4. Above average representation of freaks and/or highly camp idiots Goebbels, Goering and
Ribbentrop versus Avakov, "Yats" the yid, Poroshenko, Turchynov and many more – a
lamentable contest
5. Neither would have got off the ground without Anglo-American funding
Just because the Nazi's in the 30's and 40's were more competent does not take away the
similarities
Structural bottlenecks and slow reform progress lead to anemic growth in Ukraine
The rate of economic growth in Ukraine remains too low to reduce poverty and reach income
levels of neighboring European countries. Following the 16 percent cumulative contraction of
the economy in 2014-15, economic growth has recovered to 2.4 percent in 2016-17 and 3.3
percent in 2018. Faster economic growth for a sustained period of time is needed to reduce
poverty which remains above pre-crisis levels. More needs to be done if Ukraine's aspiration
is to become a high-income country and to close the income gap with advanced economies. Today
Ukraine is far from that goal. In terms of GDP-per-capita, Ukraine remains one of the poorest
countries in the region -- at levels of Moldova, Armenia and Georgia. Ukraine's GDP per
capita in purchasing power parity terms is about three times lower than in Poland, despite
having similar income levels in 1990.
At the growth rate of recent years, it will take Ukraine more than 50 years to reach income
levels of today's Poland. If Ukraine's productivity growth and investment rate remains at the
low levels observed in recent years, overt the medium-term the growth rate will converge to
almost zero per annum -- productivity growth is offset by declining contribution of labor as
Ukraine undergoes the demographic transition. Boosting total factor productivity growth to 3
percent per year and investment to 30 percent of GDP would result in sustained growth of
about 4 percent per year over the medium- to long-term. Given declining total population this
translates to GDP per capita growth of about 4.5 percent per year. These trends will not
improve on their own, they can happen only through the implementation of appropriate policies
that boost productivity and increase the returns on factors of production.
1. It does not split trade to industries. Hi-tech big added value and lo-tech slim added
value – falls into the same "total"
2. It only shows one snapshot, not YoY dynamics.
3. The column "Export Product" shows exactly the same value – literally, 100% –
for ALL the countries, all the rows. I wonder what we should deduce from it
2012 – $19,8B
2013 – $17,6B – the start of the coup
2014 – $15B – the coup won power but did not entrenched yet and did not had time
yet to enforce its ideals
2015 – $9.8B – the work started
2016 – $4.8B – 80% of 2012 exports are cut off, EuroMaidan means business
2017 – $3.6B – 82% of 2013 exports are cut off, coming to plateau ?
2018 – $3,9B – a slight rebound, plateau reached
@bob sykes I'd dismiss this, as Putin is apparently doing. Kolomoisky is looking who else
would provide money that he can steal. He, Porky, and others of their ilk stole Western loans
so blatantly, that even US-controlled IMF is balking at giving Ukraine more money. So,
Kolomoisky hopes that Russia will, so that he has more to steal. I hope that his hopes are in
vain.
The entire Ukraine farce can be explained as a simple project
Khazaria 2.0.
I met a Jew (American) in Ukraine over 20 years ago.
He told me the plan Jews were returning to historically Jewish cities in Ukraine by the
hundreds buying up for kopecki on the Gryvnia anything they could.
Media outlets, banks, factories, beachfront land, farmland, apartments, etc.
The idea? Make Ukraine the next EU Country, and benefit from the huge potential of
Ukraine.
I agreed with him at the time, that Ukraine had huge potential, I was there as an engineer
working for German companies but his lust for what could be 'looted' disgusted me.
This is a standard CIA scenario, used in Sarajevo and Deraa before Kiev. So, Ukrainians
bought an old stale show, swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
But the Georgian snipers brought in 2014 to Kiev by Saakashvili started dying in
suspicious circumstances, so those who are still alive rushed to Belarus and started deposing
their testimony. They implicated a lot of Ukies, including former speaker Parubii, former MP
Pashinsky, etc. It was well known (to those who did not keep their eyes wide shut for
political reasons) that the sniper fire in 2014 on Maidan was from the building controlled by
the coup leaders, who later tried to blame Yanuk for it. That's why post-coup Ukrainian
authorities got rid of the trees on Maidan: bullet holes in those trees indicated where the
fire was coming from. But this recent testimony implicated particular people, who (surprise,
surprise!) happened to be among the coup leaders.
@Truth3 The truth is that you are absolutely right. 'Ukrainians' boasted that they are
the 'Khazars' since Mazeppa and Orlyk of the 'Constitution of Bendery' fame, while parading a
distaste for 'the adherents of deceitful Judaism' and noisy adherence to Orthodoxy.
Look at this entry of the http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com and see if
anything changed:
"After Mazepa's death, on 16 April 1710, Orlyk was elected hetman, with the backing of
Charles XII of Sweden, in Bendery. The chief author of the Constitution of Bendery, he
pursued policies aimed at liberating Ukraine from Russian rule. He gained the support of the
Zaporozhian Host, concluded a treaty with Charles XII* in May 1710, and sought to make the
Ukrainian question a matter of international concern by continuing Mazepa's attempts at
establishing an anti-Russian coalition ** . Orlyk signed a treaty with the Crimean khan
Devlet-Girei in February 1711, negotiated with the Ottoman Porte, which formally recognized
his authority over Right-Bank Ukraine and the Zaporizhia in 1712, conducted talks with the
Don Cossack participants in Kondratii Bulavin's revolt who had fled to the Kuban, and even
contacted the Kazan Tatars and the Bashkirs. In 1711–14 he led Cossack campaigns
against the Russians in Right-Bank Ukraine. Despite initial victories they ultimately failed,
because of Turkish vacillation and because the pillaging, raping, and taking of many civilian
captives by Orlyk's Crimean Tatar allies resulted in the loss of public and military support
on the Right Bank".
Nowhere does the 'first "European" constitution' speak about 'ukrainians', but of 'Exercitu
Zaporoviensi genteque Rossiaca" (Zaporozhian Host and the Ruthenian people) living in
"Parva Rossia"/Little Russia.
* putting Ukraine under the protection of the King of Sweden.
** an plot of 'European' and Islamic powers with an intense 'Masonic-Kabbalistic' coloring
(and Jewish financial support) against Russian 'Tsardom' and 'Patriarchal' Church. 'Ukraine'
was an anti-Russian project from the get go. Brzezinski's quip: "Ukraine, a new and important
space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an
independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a
Eurasian empire" reflects only the revival of the old plan in new circumstances.
@Seraphim " Brzezinski's quip: "Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian
chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot "
Old Zbieg was as lunatic as Pole can be and as cunning as Jew can be (was he?).
The Poles were so desiring to became Slavic superpower, and on the height of their might
in 15th century – they could become. They occupied Russian lands – oh, that
mythical Kievan Rus oppressed by Moscow for centuries. And they even occupied Moscow for few
months – more than unified Europe managed to do under both Napoleon and Hitler
combined! Polska was really stronk then.
.well, they ate themselves from inside and sold their statehood to all the foreign bidders
while boasting about Polish pride. Like ukropeans do today. They lost their strength, they
lost their eastern colony, and for a while they even lost Poland itself.
They could never move over it.
Zbieg – coming from Galicia, the last shrink of Poland-occupied lands – had
this specifically Polish resentment burning in him. And he managed to make USA fight Polish
fights. Managed to use American incompetence in history and geography to sell them that idea
that the Ukraine – the borderlands between Poland and Russia have "geopolitical"
importance. For USA, no less. Wow!
Okay, USA invested at very least $5B into buying Ukrainian warchiefs, and we don't know
how much more was added by EU and Germany. They now have this "geopolitical asset" as Zbieg
urged them to do. What are they gonna do with it now? How do they gonna make Ukrainians pay
back the money they spent? Old Zbieg preached about the world "paid by Russia to fight
against Russia". This is that very "Russia, occupy the Ukraine finally, we are tired of
fruitless waiting!" whining they repeat again and again. But if this won't work, just like it
did not work yet, how do they think to make Ukrainians pay for it? Or whom else? I wonder
@Arioch "> My point is the ukraine isn't dead. It isn't dying.
In which quality? As a swath of land inhabited by few peasants here and there – it
surely will remain.
As an economically vibrant country, one of UN founders, with economy larger than German and
closing on France – what it used to be – it is dead.
As a laws-bound polity it is dead since 2014, though was dying even before.
As STEM engineering and education stronghold it was in USSR – it is dead.
As one in just four in the whole world producers of really large airplanes – it is
dead.
As one of the few ICBM producers – it is dead, know-how sold to Saudi.
As one of the few turbojet engines producers – it is dead, know-how sold to China.
As one of the reliable and well known tanks and APCs producer – it is dead, even
USA-occupied Iraq does not buy this trash.
As the country, living from the geographic rent, just providing roads and hotels for cargo
traffic, it is almost dead. Bridges are collapsing, roads – neither for cars nor
railways – are not maintained."
Bravado, anyone can see.
Dead countries don't produce electricity. Real economists look at things like this. Not
just at industrial reorganization. That is the only point you have. Industrial
reorganization. Not death of industry.
@Anon BTW, most *live* countries of the world do not produce ICBMs, nor jet engines, nor
APCs etc, nor super heavy aircraft. The military industrial complex remnants from the SU are
not industries that most of the planet's countries have. Specialties. Those can not be
measures of whether a country is living or dead. Use some real measures.
@Anon Actually a good point. Mass cargo logistics and energy generation. Indeed.
The thing here is, that as of now the Ukraine is enjoying its privileged position from
times Ukrainians ruled USSR (IOW, after Stalin died in 1953 and of few coup leaders Khruschev
became top dog in 1956). The Ukraine is reeking with then top-tech nuclear power plants, that
very few of other USSR republics had (one in Ignalina in Baltics, one in Armenia, and dozen
in Russia, that is all. Ukraine was #2 with huge gap).
There is a switch, though. What do you do with electricity you produced?
And, what kind of electricity you produce?
The second question is tangential to "green energy" fad.
The generation is split to "base" generation, which covers required minimum and should be
steadily generating around the clock, and "maneuvering" generation which can be turned on and
off in a matter of few minutes, to accommodate with daytime traits, like "people awoke in
between 7-8am, took shower, cooked breakfast and departed to school/work".
In general, base generation is predictable, thus does not need big reserves, can use economy
of scales and cut costs. Maneuvering one has to increase costs, dealing with unpredictable
mode changes and extra wearing it puts on the equipment and employees.
The first question, as you can not pour electricity into a tank and keep it for months
there, can be roughly split to
1) use at home, for things like washing, cleaning, entertaining (TV, computers), air
conditioning in summer and heating in winter.
2) use in industries, this is perhaps what "real economists" look for. Those should had less
daily spikes, they might even have near constant consumption around the clock.
3) export to the countries, who need it, but does not want to build their own power
plants
The export is significant thing. There is so called Byrshtyn Island, a constellation of
power plants in Western Ukraine, that was cut off from Ukrainian grid and plugged to Polish
grid, to act as maneuvering damper for Polish citizens' daylight cycles.
You chart shows that between 2014 and 2015 there was strong (about 2000 GWH) decrease in
production, which remained more or less stable after that. It also shows huge seasonal
variation.
It probably means Ukrainian industries and households enjoy a lot of winter-time heating, but
very little of summer-time AC. Just like it was built during USSR times.
Ukrainian electricity export seems rising. Were there new power plants put to service? I
did not heard. Then it means that domestic consumption shrunk.
There was also a streak of Nuclear Power Plants accidents in the news of 2017-2019.
This can stem from two factors:
1) increased reliance on NPP as other power plants go belly-up, especially forcing those
giant NPPs into maneuvering modes, which they were not designed for. You can find news
sources that Ukrainian NPPs were being tested to 105% of normative capacity and to
maneuvering modes, the modes that just do not make sense when together.
2) decreased maintenance
Anyway, those NPPs are of old Soviet design of 1980-s, they are closing to end of life.
We'll see if new ones will be built. Or if they will just be used regardless of aging until
some hard failure, "run to the ground". And what will come after.
Of course, as long as they operate – no mater how harmful to locals – EU will
buy cheap energy.
And since EuroMaidan government is living on debts, it will have no choice than to sell. Even
if domestic power consumption will get zero, the EU will buy the power.
But I do not think EU would invest into building new power plants there when Soviet ones
finally crack.
@Anon Indeed, only Airbus and Boeing can produce super-heavy aircrafts.
China and Russia are contenders. Ukraine used to be, but stepped out.
Does it mean, USA and France are hell-bent over their military industrial complex?
Maybe.
Does it make them run worse?
Bombardier and EmBraer factories are bought by Airbus and Boeing, not vice versa.
Avro of Canada once used to be a pillar, now is memory.
And all the other countries have to kiss up to political powers that allow them purchasing
Boeing and Airbus jets and maintenance as a privilege for their lapdogging.
Iran wanted to buy Airbus badly, how did it work out?
So, yeah, specialties. Those specialties that can not be replaced – for master
races.
And those that can easily – for lapdogs.
New Zealand can produce good beef. But so can Brazil and Argentina. And Ukraine too.
But Brazil can not produce irreplaceable large cargo aircrafts. And even mid-size they can
not produce independently.
All nations are completely artificial along with the gods, ideologies, fiat money & all
the rest if the human fictions. If humans went extinct overnight would the US, Russia et al
still exist? No, nor would their thousands of gods.
That little trick with the maps can be done with many countries. The US is a fine example.
1st map = 13 colonies – keep adding new maps for every new state they added after
France paid for & won US independence & include the theft/conquest of Mexican
territory & Hawaii.
The Ukraine is a huge basket case made much worse by the US, but your (Orlov too) Rabid
Russian nationalism blinds you. IOW, like the empires propagandists, you too are spinning a
narrative, albeit more truthful than empires, but a narrative (emotional) nonetheless.
@Dr Scanlon Maybe we just compare real Ukraine with what it was promised to become?
Michael Saakashvili, 2014-08-26, "Exactly one year from today Ukraine would send
humanitarian aid to Russia. Mark my words.". I am still trying to find that aid around me, no
luck
There also was a much more extended timetable, year by year, how Ukraine would rocket to
the future and how Russia would fall down to middle ages. Wanted to re-read it but could not
find.
@Anon Or yea, sure. Even Ukrainian statistics (which in terms of reliability might be
somewhat better than Nostradamus, at least sometimes) report 53 births for 100 deaths, with
the population shrinking due to this differential alone by more than 200,000 per year. If you
count in emigration, the picture becomes very bleak. Millions work in Russia, Poland, and
elsewhere. Mind you, temporary emigration for work easily becomes permanent. For example, I
have a cousin who used to live in Lvov. He worked in Russia for 20+ years, and since 2014
never visited Ukraine. I guess he is still counted, as he remains a Ukrainian citizen.
@Mr. Hack OK, let's go to the original of the constitution 'ratified' by "His Majesty the
King of Sweden" (cum consensu S-ae R-ae Maiestatis Sueciae, Protectoris Nostri/with the
consent of His Majesty the King of Sweden, our protector):
"It is no secret that Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky of glorious memory, with the
Zaporozhian Host, took up arms and began a just war against the Polish Commonwealth for no
other reason (apart from rights and liberties) except their Orthodox faith, which had been
forced as a result of various encumbrances placed on it by the Polish authorities into union
with the Roman church. Similarly, after the alien new Roman religion had been eradicated
from our fatherland, he with the said Zaporozhian Host and Ruthenian [Rossiaca] people,
sought and submitted himself to the protection of the Muscovite tsardom for no other
reason than "that it shared the same Orthodox religion". Therefore, if God our Lord, strong
and mighty in battle, should assist the victorious armies of His Royal Majesty the King of
Sweden to liberate our fatherland from the Muscovite yoke of slavery, the present newly
elected Hetman will be bound by duty and put under obligation to take special care that no
alien religion is introduced into our Ruthenian [Rossiacam] fatherland. Should one, however,
appear anywhere, either secretly or openly, he will be bound to extirpate it through his
authority, not allow it to be preached or disseminated, and not permit any dissenters,
MOST OF ALL THE ADHERENTS OF DECEITFUL JUDAISM, to live in Ukraine, and will be bound to make
every possible effort that only the Orthodox faith of the Eastern confession, under
obedience to the Holy Apostolic See of Constantinople, be established firmly for ever
and be allowed to expand and to flourish, like a rose among thorns, among the neighbouring
countries following alien religions, for the greater glory of God, the building of churches,
and the instruction of Ruthenian [Rossiacis] sons in the liberal arts. And for the greater
authority of the Kievan metropolitan see, which is foremost in Little Russia [Parva Rossia],
and for a more efficient administration of spiritual matters, His Grace the Hetman should,
after the liberation of our fatherland from the Muscovite yoke, obtain from the Apostolic See
of Constantinople the original power of an exarch in order thereby to renew relationship with
and filial obedience to the aforementioned Apostolic See of Constantinople, from which
it , was privileged to have been enlightened in the holy Catholic faith by the preaching of
the Gospel".
"neque ignotum est, gloriosae memoriae Ducem Theodatum Chmielniccium cum Exercitu
Zaporoviensi non ob aliam causam praeter iura libertatis commotum fuisse iustaque contra
Rempublicam Polonam arma arripuisse, solum pro Fide sua Orthodoxa, quae variorum
gravaminum compulsu a potestate Polonorum coacta fuerat ad unionem cum Ecclesia Romana;
post extirpatam quoque e patria Neoromanam exoticam Religionem, non alio motivo cum eodem
Exercitu Zaporoviensi genteque Rossiaca protectione Imperii Moscovitici dedisse et libere se
subdidisse, solum ob Religionis Orthodoxae unionem. Igitur modernus neoelectus lllustrissimus
Dux, quando Dominus Deus fortis et potens in praeliis iuvabit felicia sacrae S-ae R-ae
Maiestatis Sueciae arma ad vindicandam patriam nostram de servitutis iugo Moscovitico
tenebitur et debito iure obstringetur singularem volvere curam fortiterque obstare, ut nulla
exotica Religio in patriam nostram Rossiacam introducatur, quae si alicubi clamve , palamve
apparuerit, tune activitatem suam extirpandae ipsi debebit, praedicari ampliarique non
permittet, asseclis eiusdem, PRAESERTIM VERO PRAESTIGIOSO IUDAISMO cohabitationem in Ucraina
non concedet et omni virium conatu sollicitam impendet curam, ut sola et una Orthodoxa Fides
Orientalis Confessionis sub obedienta S-tae Apostoiicae sedis Constantinopolitanae in
perpetuum sit firmanda, atque cum amplianda gloria Divina, erigendis ecclesiis exercendisque
in artibus liberalibus filiis Rossiacis dilatetur, ac tanquam rosa inter spinas, inter vicina
exoticae Religionis Dominia virescat et florescat. Propter vero majorem authoritatem
primariae in Parva Rossia sedis Metropolitanae Kiiovensis faciliorique in Spiritualibus
regimine, impositam sibi idem Illustrissimus Dux vindicata patria nostra de iugo Moscovitico
geret provinciam circa procurandam et impertiendam a sede Apostolica Constantinopolitana
Exarchicam primitivam potestatem, ut hoc actu renovetur relatio et filialis patriae nostrae
obedientia ad praefatam Apostolicam sedem Constantinopolitanam, cuius praedicatione Evangelii
in Fide Sancta Catholica illuminari firmarique dignata est".
ТHЕ PYLYP ORLYK CONSTITUTION,
1710@http://www.lucorg.com/block.php/block_id/26
@Anon > Also, check construction spending – click on 10 year
.now how can i account there for the fact, that UAH in 2013 costed three times more than
UAH in 2015 ?
> Farming is an industry.
Grain industry – is low added value one, it is highly competitive market because
grain from any country on Earth is just grain.
USSR used to buy grain, as it sponsored bread production and peasants all around were
buying bead to feed their hens, goats, pigs, etc. Official meat production was large too.
It is definitely better to export at least something than nothing. But it also is better
to export high added value goods.
Before WW1 a minister of Russian Empire said "Let our peasants starve but we will export
all the grains we contracted" – few years later Russian Empire ceased to exist.
In 1931 and 1932 Stalin tenfold decreased then banned grains export breaking the
contracts. 15 years later USSR won WW2.
Franlky, it is just weird that Ukraine and Russia together produce most world's traded
grain, like there is no other fertile soil on Earth. Also Russia and Ukraine are both to the
north from USA, so USA should be able to produce more grains in its warmer climate. Why isn't
USA world #1 grains exporter?
and EU just whimsically bans Ukrainian meat beyond some arbitrary quota.
EU will easily find where to buy meet.
Can Ukraine reciprocate by banning Airbus or Boeing purchases? I wonder
EU can pressure Ukrainian government, and Ukraine can do little in defense.
What I do not understand is what will DemoRats get if Senate starts the trial.
Notable quotes:
"... "The Democrats waited for better timing of blowing the allegations it came when Zelenskiy visited Washington and blew it in UN plus, met Trump. ..."
"... "Danilyuk was present at the Zelinskiy + Trump conversation, he told about the matters of the conversation to Alexander Vindman. Zelinskiy administration fired Danilyuk but is not able to fire Vindman." ..."
"... The article continues with info on Schiff's staffers meeting in Ukraine, it has the agenda, who attended, etc. There are other related articles too, worth review IMO. ..."
"... It was not clear to the negotiators what Trump actually wanted. Sondland said that at one point he called up Trump and asked an open questions: "What do you want from Ukraine?". ..."
"... According to Sondland Trump responded: "I want nothing. I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing." ..."
"... That Gordon Sondland and his fellow negotiators were flabbergasted that Trump did not tie money for military weapons to the Biden revelations, and that Sondland himself made the assumption that Trump would make the aid money conditional on what Ukraine could provide, might tell us more about the huckster mindset that prevails among the Washington political and bureaucratic elite than it does about Trump's own worldview and psycholoical make-up. Trump may be obsessed with making the Deal of the Century but the people surrounding him in the White House are obsessed with extracting as much blood out of a stone as they can. ..."
"... Regarding the possibility of a Senate trail, just look at the two major papers. They are pushing impeachment with all they have, including awarding sainthood to some who do not deserve it, e.g. Vindman. If the Beltway echo chamber has the desired affect, Shiff will keep things going. ..."
"... This is from Saint Marie's statement: ..."
"... "Supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do. It is also the smart thing to do. If Russia prevails and Ukraine falls to Russian dominion, we can expect to see other attempts by Russia to expand its territory and influence." ..."
"... In other words, trotting out the old Dominoes Theory, first it will be Ukraine, then Belarus, Poland, the Baltics. Oh the horror! ..."
"... The impeachment hearings will never touch the basic underlying fact that Obama/Biden Administration restarted the Cold War by supporting the Maidan Coup and greenlighting the seizing of the ethnic Russian Donbass region. The trench warfare there continues to this day. ..."
"... The only conclusion is that the hatred between globalist oligarchs and nationalists is so deep and powerful that the consequences of a World War are ignored. The 2020 election is pointless. The Republic is dead. The Empire shutters from internal conflict. If the Battle of Carrhae replays once again, the war with Iran will force any survivors to retreat from the Middle East. ..."
"... Copeland @ 33 said; "It seems like the primary role of the investigation, so far, is to advance the national security narrative that portrays Russia as the perpetual enemy of the US." Yes, it "seems" like it, because it is. The corporate empire needs enemies to keep the $ flowing. ..."
This article is really helpful. https://creativedestructionmedia.com/investigations/2019/11/04
Again I have shortened the link, the article states: "Intelligence sources in Kyiv have
informed CD Media that the 'witness' narrative of LT COL Alexander Vindman was created by
corrupt U.S. State Department officials in Kyiv, Ukraine.
According to our sources, "Alexander Vindman [recent witness in favor of Trump
impeachment], Gordon Sondland [US ambassador to the EU and Trump supporter] and Oleksandr
Danilyuk [Secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine from late May
until 30 September 2019 before being fired] had a meeting in July 2019. Sondland asked
Danilyuk as head of National Security Bureau of Ukraine to investigate Biden, Burisma, and
Manafort related investigations.
Apparently, Sondland didnt know that Danilyuk is Soros' agent and supplies info to
Democrats. This was the second leak to the Deep State.
The first leak was made by Danilyuk because he was the only person in the room with fluent
English when Zelenskiy and Trump had a phone call conversation. Zelenskiy speaks English on
very intermediate level, loses the context and emotional sense also, Yermak Andrei, the 2d
Advisor to Zelenskiy is, allegedly, on the hook of FSB. Thus, it was Danilyuk who passed
information to the Deep State to attack Trump.
"The Democrats waited for better timing of blowing the allegations it came when
Zelenskiy visited Washington and blew it in UN plus, met Trump.
"Danilyuk was present at the Zelinskiy + Trump conversation, he told about the matters
of the conversation to Alexander Vindman. Zelinskiy administration fired Danilyuk but is not
able to fire Vindman."
The article continues with info on Schiff's staffers meeting in Ukraine, it has the
agenda, who attended, etc. There are other related articles too, worth review IMO.
(1) b is not being clear that Sondland drew a definite line between the White House
meeting and the stalled military aid, in terms of how he thought they were linked to Zelensky
making the desired announcement of investigations: While Sondland said he merely "presumed"
the linkage to the military aid, he asserts the linkage to the White House meeting was made
explicit to him (albeit via Giuliani).
(2) The "well documented Ukraininan interference" that actually occurred (ostensible dirt
on Manafort) bears only a vague relationship to what has lodged in Trump's shriveled lima
bean brain (the DNC server spirited away to Kiev). Of course, since neither the Dems nor the
Repubs are interested in noting this fact, it will be ignored.
thanks b.... the way i see it, usa and everyone loses in the present set up.. you can't get
down and grovel in the swamp with the usa or ukraine, as youre going to get a lot of mud on
you and some of it is going to stick.. the info that comes out of the dynamic between these 2
countries is toxic, no matter which way you look... of course dems naively think they are
going to use it to get rid of trump, but they are dredging up some toxic stuff with a lot of
their own ckeletons in the closet... they are hoping none of it comes out and the focus
remains on - as @5 jackrabbit notes - trump mentioning biden and how this is not allowed.. i
can't see them gaining from this myself as the whole thing is a political theatre where we
mostly know the final outcome... and, it's not just the ammo that trump can throw out here,
but the accidental info such as what @1/2 frances points to as well... lots of ugliness can
come out of this that is going to stick on everyone...
@3 taffyboy.. that is old footage repackaged in a new link... thanks anyway.. it is fairly
clear though and something that the dems think others are going to miss or something.. i
don't get that part.. the dems want to keep the focus on how trump was going after a 2020
rival but i think once anyone starts looking at this, they are going to see a lot more then
they want to see.. mind you, maybe the usa media will be successful in guiding the narrative
for the war party which on some level seem unhappy with trump.. i don't know that it is
eroding trumps fan base though.. maybe.. but as b says - trump is a crook.. everyone knew
this before he got in power.. however, he has slowed down the military agenda some relative
to obama, which is really ironic.. i think it is because trump doesn't profit off the
military industrial complex as he does other stuff.. either way they are all first class
kleptomaniacs all vying for the front of the trough...
The negotiations around the Ukraine issues were going slow. It was not clear to the
negotiators what Trump actually wanted. Sondland said that at one point he called up Trump
and asked an open questions: "What do you want from Ukraine?".
According to Sondland Trump responded: "I want nothing. I want nothing. I want no
quid pro quo. Tell Zelensky to do the right thing."
Trump is a crook. It is fair to presume that he wanted his aides to use all potential
pressure points to deliver the desired results from the Ukrainians. But Trump is also a
smart enough crook to never say that.
Is it possible that, just for once, Trump really did want nothing from Zelensky other than
to find out what Joe Biden stood to gain from pressuring the Ukrainians to sack Viktor Shokin
as Prosecutor General and what Hunter Biden's role as Board Director of a shell energy
company in Ukraine really amounted to?
That Gordon Sondland and his fellow negotiators were flabbergasted that Trump did not
tie money for military weapons to the Biden revelations, and that Sondland himself made the
assumption that Trump would make the aid money conditional on what Ukraine could provide,
might tell us more about the huckster mindset that prevails among the Washington political
and bureaucratic elite than it does about Trump's own worldview and psycholoical make-up.
Trump may be obsessed with making the Deal of the Century but the people surrounding him in
the White House are obsessed with extracting as much blood out of a stone as they
can.
If this ever gets to the Senate, a full trial will result, which will cause who knows how
many skeletons fall out of various Democrat/"Resistance" closets.
What do you think the odds are that, just somehow, nothing goes to the Senate in the
end?
>Nothing goes to Senate, I bet, but also no indictments from Barr.
> How's that for a quid pro quo?
> Posted by: casey | Nov 20 2019 21:54 utc | 13
For a kleptocracy, that almost sounds like a reasonable resolution, so no, that can not be
allowed. Trump is not being a team player, plus the retreat from northern Syria under fire
from potatoes was an unforgivable humiliation. Someone must pay for that, even if it brings
down the whole rotten house, a real possibility. Trump has how many millions of Twitter
followers? If he ever calls them out to the street, even if only 1% respond, and they show up
with guns...
Trump is unpredictable and dangerous. How does one disarm a drunk with a gun at a party?
Very, very carefully. But brain-dead big-dick Dear Leaders don't do carefully. It's Obey Or
Regarding the possibility of a Senate trail, just look at the two major papers. They are
pushing impeachment with all they have, including awarding sainthood to some who do not
deserve it, e.g. Vindman. If the Beltway echo chamber has the desired affect, Shiff will keep
things going.
This is from Saint Marie's statement:
"Supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do. It is also the smart thing to do. If
Russia prevails and Ukraine falls to Russian dominion, we can expect to see other attempts
by Russia to expand its territory and influence."
In other words, trotting out the old Dominoes Theory, first it will be Ukraine, then
Belarus, Poland, the Baltics. Oh the horror!
Margaret Kimberley of Black Agenda Report is always on the money
'https://www.blackagendareport.com/freedom-rider-ukrainegate-farce
She explains that "The Democrats are hoping that Ukrainegate will succeed where Russiagate
failed and they can win the presidency without helping their voters.
"This spectacle is a get out the vote effort that doubles as anti-Russian propaganda."
In other words this is a battle to ensure that the Democratic Party does not do what it
has done a couple of times before in history and become aligned with the people against the
oligarchs.
The last to manage that were FDR in 1936 (though Huey Long didn't think so) and WJ Bryan
in 1896. He came very close to winning in his challenge to the financiers, Wall St and the
rich.
There is a real chance this year that Sanders will win the Primaries and in doing so break
the hold that the corporate machines have over the Democratic Party.
To win Sanders will have, first of all, to win the support of the black voters who have
become the most reliable and malleable vote bank in the party. This would break the hold of
the Black Misleadership Class which exists to ensure that class politics do not develop. The
great fear of the oligarchy and their paid agents in the black community is that voters will
stop thinking in racial terms and start judging politicians by their policies.
If that should happen, and 'Every Man become a King', the Few might as well emigrate to
Brazil or Colombia, and take the political class, the media and the 'intelligentsia' with
them.
The impeachment hearings will never touch the basic underlying fact that Obama/Biden
Administration restarted the Cold War by supporting the Maidan Coup and greenlighting the
seizing of the ethnic Russian Donbass region. The trench warfare there continues to this
day.
The same Corporate Democrats together with the Five-Eyes Intelligence Community have
conducted a continuous campaign to defeat and then remove Donald Trump. But they are so
incompetent that he is still in the White House but he is under pressure, all alone,
frustrated and angry, with only his daughter and Kellyanne Conway for support.
Yesterday, the USS Carrier Abraham Lincoln entered Persian Gulf after 6 months nearby;
Carrier Harry Truman is back at sea, ahead of relieving the Lincoln. US National Guard
armored units deployed to eastern Syria to keep the oil. The September drone attack shows
that Aramco's oil production facilities can be taken out at any time. A bad day and the
global economy crashes.
The only conclusion is that the hatred between globalist oligarchs and nationalists is
so deep and powerful that the consequences of a World War are ignored. The 2020 election is
pointless. The Republic is dead. The Empire shutters from internal conflict. If the Battle of
Carrhae replays once again, the war with Iran will force any survivors to retreat from the
Middle East.
Pelosi is driving this impeachment bus to a trial in the Senate next year at the height of
the primaries. The goal is to keep Warren and Bernie locked up in the Senate chamber, giving
Mayor Pete and Biden ( and maybe Bloomberg) a chance to gain ground and win some state races.
The Democrats don't care if they lose to Trump. They will do anything to make sure a
progressive doesn't win to protect their corporate paymasters.
It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this.
Of course they don't. The whole thing is a massive cover up. The idea is to bore the world on
Ukraine, sacrifice Biden and prevent Giulani from digging deeper. There is so much dirt over
Ukraine that just allowing a normal investigation would be suicide for the whole dems, not
just Kerry/Biden/Hillary.
The same thing happened with Russia/Mueller. There was never an attempt to get Trump, just
to distract from Fisa inquiries and the blatant Trump spying. The Durham investigation could
crucify many from Brennan to Hillary to probably Obama.
Bore the world with b/s investigations, hope Trump doesn't have time to do his own
homework. It will never work. Giulani has a ton of dirt to reveal if he wants. And in anycase
Trump won last time by ignoring the mudfight and concentrating on slogans that showed he had
listened to what voters are saying. Working class jobs and pay, and then every time a Dem
calls for "protect the immigrants", Transwomen's rights, better universities or attack
Trump's climate change record they lose a thousand votes.
Dem outrage at Trump is just the best thing for him to win marginal working class votes.
BTW - there seems to be this thing nowadays where you can't say the facts point one way
without claiming to hate the victor. Trump is a crook. Assad is an evil person but. China is
a dreadful place but.
Trump didn't go to Washington until 3 years ago. He is probably the most honest man in the
state.
"It is beyond me why the Democrats think they can bring Trump down over this."
Really, it's the Blue wing of the Quigley Party which, for obvious reasons, must run the
anterior assault with passive assistance from the Red wing. Schiff's role was to do a better
job of simulating substance, if the real stuff couldn't be found.
The RINOs need an optical rope-bridge, allowing them to embark on a
principled/Constitutional and oh-so-difficult moral traverse that they can be seen
reluctantly rising to for the benefit of taking the edge off incensed MAGAs. At this point,
the plan of necessity is to weather the civil insurrection because Trump simply has to
go.
Alas Schiff is not delivering much. Nonetheless I suspect that after trying everything and
the kitchen sink to get Trump, reluctant Senators' own dirty (NSA) dossiers will play key
roles. There has never been in the 70-year post WW2 era a more compulsory vote than this. All
swan-divers will be well cared for.
Those who focus on MERIT and SUBSTANCE forget that the real kingmaker is PROCESS. Article
1 Section 3 requires only 'present' Senators need vote on conviction. Thus a lot of games can
be played in the gap and particularly vulnerable RINOs might be allowed a form of sick-day
(e.g. a 20-Senator panel of Dems & Repubs).
It is hard to imagine Trump surviving Mitch's Star Chamber after heaven and earth has been
moved for three years to maneuver him to this point. The singular criticality of the Senate
well only grows as Trump's re-election appears increasingly assured.
T=Of course the less plausible the Schiff findings, the more 'process gerrymandering' will
be relied upon to carry the weight. Again, some level of civil unrest is unavoidable. However
five more years of Trump is a nonstarter.
"Trump is a crook."
I'm confounded by the persisting refusal to draw a qualitative distinction between Trump
and the system he's so clearly at odds with. Not a panacea of course. This is about power.
But distinction enough to rationalize the Herculean efforts being expended to oust
him.
Come on b, do the algebra! Something's lop-sided. Trump could save everyone a lot of
trouble if he simply fell back into the arms of his confederates. Surely at a minimum there's
a material schism in the elites. A schism means daylight in the Panopticon's ceiling. Why
isn't this cheered more?
If Trump swims in crookedness, why does the entire impeachment process hinge on two
ridiculously banal phone calls after over three years of FISA microscopy? Why, in the course
of his 'mock-defense' has he been allowed to turn back the sheets on the existential levels
of Ukraine corruption? Has the Deep State become masochistic in its old age?
And why hasn't the system found his price? Every crook has one. $50 billion would be a
reasonable opening gambit. Does anyone still think this is some kind of false-dialectic
kabuki? If it is, the stage managers deserve the world, or already have it. That, and an
Oscar. Bravo!
Copeland @ 33 said; "It seems like the primary role of the investigation, so far, is to
advance the national security narrative that portrays Russia as the perpetual enemy of the
US." Yes, it "seems" like it, because it is. The corporate empire needs enemies to keep the $
flowing.
Confrontation is much more profitable than peace...
I love the title of Rick Wilson's book "Everything Trump Touches Dies". The man is completely
beshitting the presidency and the USA brand. This is not to say it wasn't foul before he laid
his tiny hands on it. He is a symptom as another commenter here points out of the failure of
the system that produced him.
Impeachment will not solve the problem even though impeachment is fully justified on the
basis of his illegal maneuvers in Ukraine. He should be removed from his command for looting
Syria's oil, or for simply entering upon Syrian territory without being invited. Bush should
be in prison for the Iraq war, for that matter. But he's another symptom.
The clear and present danger is Trump who has thrown a monkey wrench into the global
system and disunited the nations. He's wrecked trade relations with China. He's exacerbated
problems in the ME and assisted Israel in the further destruction of the Palestinian people.
He's attempting to dismantle the lawful regulatory function of government and convert it to a
lawless fascist fortress America with only contempt for international law. His ignorance of
environmental problems is vast.
If this man is not removed from office this nation will die. Sooner than it would
otherwise. It is already very sick. This spectacle of impeachment is a weak remedy. We have
no alternative.
Trump is not a crook. He approached the situation with Z no doubt as he has been approached
countless times by the Mob and the Cops in NYC. "Nice country you got here. It would be a
shame if anything were to happen to it." If you sincerely believe Trump's denial of "quid pro
quo" and his handwritten notes, you might be the only one on the planet. That will hardly
save him from impeachment but not enough to get him tossed out (which I agree with others, is
not the Dems objective). Remember too, this did not start with the Dems. And it's not some
murky Deep State. I am surprised you have not focused on the obvious role of Bolton in all
this. He's hiding behind Kupperman now, waiting for everybody to testify, then he will come
out. He obviously has first hand info on all of this, and it's his cadre who have been
leading the charge, and his allies who have been beating the war drums (V, Taylor, Kent, et
al) with Russia. Finally, whatever the Biden boys were up to, Trump went full Tony Soprano.
Not a good look for an empire in decline. It's a textbook example of the constitutional
meaning of bribery.
tintorelli , Nov 21 2019 3:29 utc | 42
Trump is not a crook. He approached the situation with Z no doubt as he has been
approached countless times by the Mob and the Cops in NYC. "Nice country you got here. It
would be a shame if anything were to happen to it." If you sincerely believe Trump's denial
of "quid pro quo" and his handwritten notes, you might be the only one on the planet. That
will hardly save him from impeachment but not enough to get him tossed out (which I agree
with others, is not the Dems objective). Remember too, this did not start with the Dems. And
it's not some murky Deep State. I am surprised you have not focused on the obvious role of
Bolton in all this. He's hiding behind Kupperman now, waiting for everybody to testify, then
he will come out. He obviously has first hand info on all of this, and it's his cadre who
have been leading the charge, and his allies who have been beating the war drums (V, Taylor,
Kent, et al) with Russia. Finally, whatever the Biden boys were up to, Trump went full Tony
Soprano. Not a good look for an empire in decline. It's a textbook example of the
constitutional meaning of bribery.
Slightly off topic: I have been reluctantly listening to the hearings in front of the Star
Chamber of the House. A thing I didn't know (but should have) and learned from the hearings:
Ambassador Volker finds it totally unremarkable that a Ukrainian official would come to him
for editing and approval of a public statement by the Ukrainian government. I think the
foreign service needs a similar cleaning of the Augean Stables.
"... In the spring and summer of 2019, did you ever become aware of any U.S. intelligence or U.S. treasury concerns raised about incoming Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and his affiliation or proximity to certain oligarchs? Did any of those concerns involve what the IMF might do if a certain oligarch who supported Zelensky returned to power and regained influence over Ukraine's national bank? ..."
"... John Solomon reported at The Hill and your colleagues have since confirmed in testimony that the State Department helped fund a nonprofit called the Anti-Corruption Action Centre of Ukraine that also was funded by George Soros' main charity. That nonprofit, also known as AnTac, was identified in a 2014 Soros foundation strategy document as critical to reshaping Ukraine to Mr. Soros' vision. ..."
"... In March 2019, Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuriy Lutsenko gave an on-the-record, videotaped interview to The Hill alleging that during a 2016 meeting you discussed a list of names of Ukrainian nationals and groups you did not want to see Ukrainian prosecutors target. Your supporters have since suggested he recanted that story. Did you or your staff ever do anything to confirm he had recanted or changed his story, such as talk to him, or did you just rely on press reports? ..."
"... Your colleagues, in particular Mr. George Kent, have confirmed to the House Intelligence Committee that the U.S. embassy in Kiev did, in fact, exert pressure on the Ukrainian prosecutors office not to prosecute certain Ukrainian activists and officials. These efforts included a letter Mr. Kent signed urging Ukrainian prosecutors to back off an investigation of the aforementioned group AnTac as well as engaged in conversations about certain Ukrainians like Parliamentary member Sergey Leschenko, journalist Vitali Shabunin and NABU director Artem Sytnyk. Why was the US. Embassy involved in exerting such pressure and did any of these actions run afoul of the Geneva Convention's requirement that foreign diplomats avoid becoming involved in the internal affairs of their host country? ..."
"... If the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States suddenly urged us to fire Attorney General Bill Bar or our FBI director, would you think that was appropriate? ..."
"... At any time since December 2015, did you or your embassy ever have any contact with Vice President Joe Biden, his office or his son Hunter Biden concerning Burisma Holdings or an investigation into its owner Mykola Zlochevsky? ..."
The next big witness for the House Democrats' impeachment hearings is Marie Yovanovitch, the
former American ambassador to Ukraine who was recalled last spring at President Trump's
insistence.
It is unclear what firsthand knowledge she will offer about the core allegation of this
impeachment: that Trump delayed foreign aid assistance to Ukraine in hopes of getting an
investigation of Joe Biden and Democrats started.
Nonetheless, she did deal with the Ukrainians going back to the summer of 2016 and likely
will be an important fact witness.
After nearly two years of reporting on Ukraine issues, here are 15 questions I think could
be most illuminating to every day Americans if the ambassador answered them.
Ambassador Yovanovitch, at any time while you served in Ukraine did any officials in Kiev
ever express concern to you that President Trump might be withholding foreign aid assistance
to get political investigations started? Did President Trump ever ask you as America's top
representative in Kiev to pressure Ukrainians to start an investigation about Burisma
Holdings or the Bidens?
What was the Ukrainians' perception of President Trump after he allowed lethal aid to go
to Ukraine in 2018?
In the spring and summer of 2019, did you ever become aware of any U.S. intelligence
or U.S. treasury concerns raised about incoming Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and
his affiliation or proximity to certain oligarchs? Did any of those concerns involve what the
IMF might do if a certain oligarch who supported Zelensky returned to power and regained
influence over Ukraine's national bank?
Back in May 2018, then-House Rules Committee chairman Pete Sessions wrote a letter to
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo suggesting you might have made comments unflattering or
unsupportive of the president and should be recalled. Setting aside that Sessions is a
Republican and might even have donors interested in Ukraine policy, were you ever questioned
about his concerns? At any time have you or your embassy staff made comments that could be
viewed as unsupportive or critical of President Trump and his policies?
John Solomon reported at The Hill and your colleagues have since confirmed in
testimony that the State Department helped fund a nonprofit called the Anti-Corruption Action
Centre of Ukraine that also was funded by George Soros' main charity. That nonprofit, also
known as AnTac, was identified in a 2014 Soros foundation strategy document as critical to
reshaping Ukraine to Mr. Soros' vision. Can you explain what role your embassy played in
funding this group and why State funds would flow to it? And did any one consider the
perception of mingling tax dollars with those donated by Soros, a liberal ideologue who spent
millions in 2016 trying to elect Hillary Clinton and defeat Donald Trump?
In March 2019, Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuriy Lutsenko gave an on-the-record,
videotaped interview to The Hill alleging that during a 2016 meeting you discussed a list of
names of Ukrainian nationals and groups you did not want to see Ukrainian prosecutors target.
Your supporters have since suggested he recanted that story. Did you or your staff ever do
anything to confirm he had recanted or changed his story, such as talk to him, or did you
just rely on press reports?
Now that both the New York Times and The Hill have confirmed that Lutsenko stands by his
account and has not recanted, how do you respond to his concerns? And setting aide the use of
the word "list," is it possible that during that 2016 meeting with Mr. Lutsenko you discussed
the names of certain Ukrainians you did not want to see prosecuted, investigated or
harassed?
Your colleagues, in particular Mr. George Kent, have confirmed to the House
Intelligence Committee that the U.S. embassy in Kiev did, in fact, exert pressure on the
Ukrainian prosecutors office not to prosecute certain Ukrainian activists and officials.
These efforts included a letter Mr. Kent signed urging Ukrainian prosecutors to back off an
investigation of the aforementioned group AnTac as well as engaged in conversations about
certain Ukrainians like Parliamentary member Sergey Leschenko, journalist Vitali Shabunin and
NABU director Artem Sytnyk. Why was the US. Embassy involved in exerting such pressure and
did any of these actions run afoul of the Geneva Convention's requirement that foreign
diplomats avoid becoming involved in the internal affairs of their host country?
On March 5 of this year, you gave a speech in which you called for the replacement of
Ukraine's top anti-corruption prosecutor. That speech occurred in the middle of the Ukrainian
presidential election and obviously raised concerns among some Ukrainians of internal
interference prohibited by the Geneva Convention. In fact, one of your bosses, Under
Secretary David Hale, got questioned about those concerns when he arrived in country a few
days later. Why did you think it was appropriate to give advice to Ukrainians on an internal
personnel matter and did you consider then or now the potential concerns your comments might
raise about meddling in the Ukrainian election or the country's internal affairs?
If the Ukrainian ambassador to the United States suddenly urged us to fire Attorney
General Bill Bar or our FBI director, would you think that was appropriate?
At any time since December 2015, did you or your embassy ever have any contact with
Vice President Joe Biden, his office or his son Hunter Biden concerning Burisma Holdings or
an investigation into its owner Mykola Zlochevsky?
At any time since you were appointed ambassador to Ukraine, did you or your embassy have
any contact with the following Burisma figures: Hunter Biden, Devon Archer, lawyer John
Buretta, Blue Star strategies representatives Sally Painter and Karen Tramontano, or former
Ukrainian embassy official Andrii Telizhenko?
John Solomon obtained documents showing Burisma representatives were pressuring the State
Department in February 2016 to help end the corruption allegations against the company and
were invoking Hunter Biden's name as part of their effort. Did you ever subsequently learn of
these contacts and did any one at State -- including but not limited to Secretary Kerry,
Undersecretary Novelli, Deputy Secretary Blinken or Assistant Secretary Nuland -- ever raise
Burisma with you?
What was your embassy's assessment of the corruption allegations around Burisma and why
the company may have hired Hunter Biden as a board member in 2014?
In spring 2019 your embassy reportedly began monitoring briefly the social media
communications of certain people viewed as supportive of President Trump and gathering
analytics about them. Who were those people? Why was this done? Why did it stop? And did
anyone in the State Department chain of command ever suggest targeting Americans with State
resources might be improper or illegal?
"... "In direct contravention of U.S. interests" says the NBC and quotes a member of the permanent state who declares "it is clearly in our national interest" to give weapons to Ukraine. ..."
"... But is that really in the national U.S. interest? Who defined it as such? ..."
"... And that's where the policy community and I part company. It is the president, not the bureaucracy, who was elected by the American people. That puts him -- not the National Security Council, the State Department, the intelligence community, the military, and their assorted subject-matter experts -- in charge of making policy. If we're to remain a constitutional republic, that's how it has to stay. ..."
"... The constitution does not empower the "U.S. government policy community", nor "the administration", nor the "consensus view of the interagency" and certainly not one Lt.Col. Vindman to define the strategic interests of the United States and its foreign policy. It is the duly elected president who does that. ..."
"... Mr. Kolomoisky, widely seen as Ukraine's most powerful figure outside government, given his role as the patron of the recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, has experienced a remarkable change of heart: It is time, he said, for Ukraine to give up on the West and turn back toward Russia. ..."
"... "They're stronger anyway. We have to improve our relations," he said, comparing Russia's power to that of Ukraine. "People want peace, a good life, they don't want to be at war. And you" -- America -- "are forcing us to be at war , and not even giving us the money for it." ..."
"... Mr. Kolomoisky [..] told The Times in a profanity-laced discussion, the West has failed Ukraine, not providing enough money or sufficiently opening its markets. ..."
"... Instead, he said, the United States is simply using Ukraine to try to weaken its geopolitical rival. "War against Russia," he said, "to the last Ukrainian." Rebuilding ties with Russia has become necessary for Ukraine's economic survival, Mr. Kolomoisky argued. He predicted that the trauma of war will pass. ..."
"... Kolomoisky's interview is obviously a trial balloon for the policies Zelensky wants to pursue. He has, like Trump, campaigned on working for better relations with Russia. He received nearly 73% of all votes. ..."
"... Ambassador Taylor and the other participants of yesterday's clown show would certainly "mess it up and get in the way" if Zelensky openly pursues the policy he promised to his voters. They are joined in this with the west-Ukrainian fascists they have used to arrange the Maidan coup: ..."
"... Only some 20% of the Ukrainians are in favour of continuing the war against the eastern separatists who Russia supports. During the presidential election Poroshenko received just 25% of the votes. His party European Solidarity won 8.1% of the parliamentary election. Voice won 5.8%. ..."
"... on Yovanovitch, She added: "If our chief representative is kneecapped, it limits our effectiveness to safeguard the vital national security interests of the United States." ..."
"... She wasn't fired, she was kneecapped, and Ukraine is a US vital national security interest, especially after it installed a new government with neo-fascism support.. . .Kneecapping is a form of malicious wounding, often as torture, in which the victim is injured in the knee ..."
NBC News
is not impressed by the first day of the Democrats' impeachment circus. But it fails to
note what the conflict is really about:
It was substantive, but it wasn't dramatic.
In the reserved manner of veteran diplomats with Harvard degrees, Bill Taylor and George
Kent opened the public phase of the House impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump on
Wednesday by bearing witness to a scheme they described as not only wildly unorthodox but
also in direct contravention of U.S. interests.
"It is clearly in our national interest to deter further Russian aggression," Taylor, the
acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and a decorated Vietnam War veteran, said in explaining why
Trump's decision to withhold congressionally appropriated aid to the most immediate target of
Russian expansionism didn't align with U.S. policy.
But at a time when Democrats are simultaneously eager to influence public opinion in favor
of ousting the president and quietly apprehensive that their hearings could stall or
backfire, the first round felt more like the dress rehearsal for a serious one-act play than
the opening night of a hit Broadway musical.
"In direct contravention of U.S. interests" says the NBC and quotes a member of the
permanent state who declares "it is clearly in our national interest" to give weapons to
Ukraine.
But is that really in the national U.S. interest? Who defined it as such?
President Obama was against giving weapons to Ukraine and never transferred any to Ukraine
despite pressure from certain circles. Was Obama's decision against U.S. national interest?
Where are the Democrats or deep state members accusing him of that?
Which brings us to the really critical point of the whole issue. Who defines what is in the
"national interest" with regards to foreign policy? Here is a point where for once I agree with
the right-wingers at the National Review where Andrew McCarthy writes :
[O]n the critical matter of America's interests in the Russia/Ukraine dynamic, I think the
policy community is right, and President Trump is wrong. If I were president, while I would
resist gratuitous provocations, I would not publicly associate myself with the delusion that
stable friendship is possible (or, frankly, desirable) with Putin's anti-American
dictatorship, which runs its country like a Mafia family and is acting on its revanchist
ambitions.
But you see, much like the policy community, I am not president. Donald Trump is.
And that's where the policy community and I part company. It is the president, not the
bureaucracy, who was elected by the American people. That puts him -- not the National
Security Council, the State Department, the intelligence community, the military, and their
assorted subject-matter experts -- in charge of making policy. If we're to remain a
constitutional republic, that's how it has to stay.
The U.S.
constitution "empowers the President of the United States to propose and chiefly
negotiate agreements between the United States and other countries."
The constitution does not empower the "U.S. government policy community", nor "the
administration", nor the "consensus view of the interagency" and certainly not one Lt.Col.
Vindman to define the strategic interests of the United States and its foreign policy. It is
the duly elected president who does that.
The president does not like how the 'American policy' on Russia was built. He rightly
believes that he was elected to change it. He had stated his opinion on Russia during his
campaign and won the election. It is not 'malign influence' that makes him try to have good
relations with Russia. It is his own conviction and legitimized by the voters.
...
[I]t is the president who sets the policies. The drones around him who serve "at his
pleasure" are there to implement them.
There is another point that has to be made about the NBC's assertions. It is not in
the interest of Ukraine to be a proxy for U.S. deep state antagonism towards Russia. Robber
baron Igor Kolomoisky, who after the Maidan coup
had financed the west-Ukrainian fascists who fought against east-Ukraine, says so directly in
his
recent NYT interview :
Mr. Kolomoisky, widely seen as Ukraine's most powerful figure outside government, given his
role as the patron of the recently elected President Volodymyr Zelensky, has experienced a
remarkable change of heart: It is time, he said, for Ukraine to give up on the West and turn
back toward Russia.
"They're stronger anyway. We have to improve our relations," he said, comparing Russia's
power to that of Ukraine. "People want peace, a good life, they don't want to be at war. And
you" -- America -- "are forcing us to be at war , and not even giving us the money for
it."
... Mr. Kolomoisky [..] told The Times in a profanity-laced discussion, the West has failed
Ukraine, not providing enough money or sufficiently opening its markets.
Instead, he said, the United States is simply using Ukraine to try to weaken its
geopolitical rival. "War against Russia," he said, "to the last Ukrainian." Rebuilding ties
with Russia has become necessary for Ukraine's economic survival, Mr. Kolomoisky argued. He
predicted that the trauma of war will pass.
...
Mr. Kolomoisky said he was feverishly working out how to end the war, but he refused to
divulge details because the Americans "will mess it up and get in the way."
Kolomoisky's interview is obviously a trial balloon for the policies Zelensky wants to
pursue. He has, like Trump, campaigned on working for better relations with Russia. He received
nearly 73% of all votes.
Ambassador Taylor and the other participants of yesterday's clown show would certainly "mess
it up and get in the way" if Zelensky openly pursues the policy he promised to his voters. They
are joined in this
with the west-Ukrainian fascists they have used to arrange the Maidan coup:
Zelenskiy's decision in early October to accept talks with Russia on the future of eastern
Ukraine resulted in an outcry from a relatively small but very vocal minority of Ukrainians
opposed to any deal-making with Russia. The protests were relatively short-lived, but
prospects for a negotiated end to the war in the eastern Donbas region became more remote in
light of this domestic opposition.
...
The supporters for war with Russia are ex-president Poroshenko and two parliamentary
factions, European Solidarity and Voice, whose supporters are predominantly located in
western Ukraine. Crucially, however, they can also rely on right-wing paramilitary groups
composed of veterans from the hottest phase of the war in Donbas in 2014-5.
Only some 20% of the Ukrainians are in favour of continuing the war against the eastern
separatists who Russia supports. During the presidential election Poroshenko received just 25%
of the votes. His party European Solidarity won 8.1% of the parliamentary election. Voice won
5.8%.
By pursuing further conflict with Russia the deep state of the United States wants to ignore
the wishes not only of the U.S. voters but also those of the Ukrainian electorate. That
undemocratic mindset is another point that unites them with the Ukrainian fascists.
Zelensky should ignore the warmongers in the U.S. embassy in Kiev and sue for immediate
peace with Russia. (He should also investigate
Biden's undue influence .) Reengaging with Russia is also the easiest and most efficient
step the Ukraine can take to lift its desolate economy.
It is in the national interest of both, the Ukraine and the United States.
Posted by b on November 14, 2019 at 18:23 UTC |
Permalink
next page " agree with mccarthy about who conducts foreign policy, disagree about who
the aggressor is; it's the USA, trying to weaken Russia, which is the aggressor.
thanks b... typo - immediate piece with Russia - 'peace' is the spelling here...
the comments from Kolomoisky in the recent nyt interview are very telling.. aside from
being a first rate kleptomaniac who will willingly play both sides if he can profit from it,
he is also speaking a moment of truth..for him Ukraine is available to the highest bidder...
he could give a rats ass about Ukraine or the people... but still, it is refreshing that the
NYT published his comments in this regard..
the quote "the Americans "will mess it up and get in the way." is very true... it was true
before kolomisky picked a side too.. this guy is very shrewd.. i wonder if his own country is
able to see thru him?
national interest.... yes, trump gets to decide and he won on the idea of having closer
relations with russia, but the cia-msm has been lambasting him and anyone else associated
with him since before the election over the clinton e mails... they have painted a scenario
that it is all russias fault and have been relentless in this portrayal... hoping trump is
going to turn this around is like hoping someone is going to turn the titanic around from
hitting a giant iceberg... the usa is too far gone and will be hitting the iceberg.. they are
in fact...
From NYT about Kolomo???? (spelling in English is highly variable)
George D. Kent, a senior State Department official, said he had told Mr. Zelensky that his
willingness to break with Mr. Kolomoisky -- "somebody who had such a bad reputation" -- would
be a litmus test for his independence. [If is good to be independent, i.e. to do what we
want.]
And William Taylor, the acting ambassador in Kiev, said he had warned Mr. Zelensky: "He,
Mr. Kolomoisky, is increasing his influence in your government, which could cause you to
fail." [La Paz is a fresh reminder for Kiev?]
Well the thing about Zelensky is he's still there, and he is making changes in Donbass.
Kolomoisky was interested in the fracked gas in Donbass, the completion of NordStream II
has made a mess of that idea. It is good that he has seen the light, as it means Zelensky
will have support in his attempts to adapt to reality. But Kolomoisky is still a crook no
doubt.
My immediate reaction was that Kolomoisky realises he has to act - the Ukrainian oligarchs
have got too close to America. I agree with James that he is a extremely clever man.
Ukraine's traditional business is playing both ends against the middle and sending the
proceeds to Switzerland (or the Caribbean in Porosyonok's case). Since 1990 a few of these
robber barons have made a very good business winding up the west against Russia, it could go
on ever - why spoil it by lifting the rock and seeing all the insects scurrying around in the
light?
Another rock that has been lifted is in Washington, where the khokhol diaspora are
desperately trying to get Uncle Sam to right the wrongs of a century ago.
"Deep state" is misleading and actually a false construction.
There is an Imperial State (the ruling faction)which consists of imperial apparatchiks
placed in every key position in government.
There is one and only one Western Empire and its deep state spreads throughout Western
governments and society. They are the owners oif the world and they run the world they
own.
... @ b -- "Only some 20% of the Ukrainians favor to continue the war against the eastern
separatists who Russia supports."
The are not 'separatists', but rather Ukrainians who want to stay in a federated Ukraine
as 'provinces' with powers to pass their regional laws, similar to those in Canada.
The segment of empire in the US that are against Russia act so because it was Russia that
stymied them in Syria and continues to be in their way of expanding the control from that
part of empire...the US segment.
I still believe that the global private finance core segment of empire is behind Trump and
throwing America(ns) under the bus as the world turns more multilateral. The cult of global
private finance intends on still having some overarching super-national role in the new
multilateral world and holding debt guns to everyones heads to make it ongoing.
I don't believe that strategy will work but as long as they can be fronted by a MAD player
of some sort (Occupied Palestine comes to mind) they can be bully players in international
matters.
As the world economies grind to a "halt" there will be lots of pressure everywhere and
very little clarity about the key civilization war over public/private finance, IMO
For a military dictatorship, diplomacy is the continuation of war by other means. The US has
been at war with Russia since the right-wing coup at the Democratic convention of 1944. All
presidents have been servants of the military, which includes the police/intel/security
apparatus; the few who did not entirely accept their figurehead role were "dealt with."
Kennedy, Nixon, Carter and now Trump. The Washington permanent state bureaucrats are shocked
and understandably offended; they have after all, been running US foreign policy for 75
years!
Wow! The depth of delusion on display is as breathtaking as its complete projection of the
intentions and actions of the Evil Outlaw US Empire! Oh so many saying I'm displaying four
fingers instead of two. Too bad there isn't a padded cell big enough to contain all the
lunatics. I recall the pre- and post-coup discussions from 2014--that Russia was going to
make NATO own Ukraine until it was forced to concede it has no business being there; that
Russia would teach the would-be leaders of Ukraine a serious lesson in where their national
interests lay. NATO is ready to cede and the lesson's been learned.
IMO, two referendums must be held. The first within Russia: Will you accept portions of
Ukraine wanting to merge with Russia: Yes/No? Second to be given within Ukraine provided Yes
wins in #1: Do you wish to join Russia or remain in Ukraine? IMO, this is a very longstanding
unresolved issue of consequence for the people involved. The political leaders of Russia and
Ukraine might both be against such a vote, but IMO that merely kicks the can further down the
road and opens the door for more mischief making by the Evil Outlaw US Empire. Assuming a Yes
from Russia and some from Ukraine, a strategic threat to Russia and Europe would be
mitigated. Additional questions about those parts of Ukraine not wanting to join Russia could
be solved via additional referenda in the Ukraine and neighboring nations that might prove
willing to absorb the remnants and their people. Such action would of course negate the Minsk
Agreements.
Given the ideological passions of those living in Western and Northern Ukraine, I don't
see any hope for the continuation of the Ukrainian state as currently arranged, thus the
proposed referenda. However, if Russia says Nyet, then Minsk must be implemented.
"Democracy" is not about letting the people as a whole have a say in how the country is
governed. That would be fascist, and racist, and populist, and LITERALLY HITLER. Letting the
people decide on things like foreign policy, is literally anti-democratic.
No, "Democracy" is about privatizing power and socializing responsibility. The elites get
to set the policy, but the public at large gets to take responsibility when things go wrong.
Because you see, we are a "Democracy."
Breaking off long established economic and cultural ties with a large neighbouring country,
virtually overnight, is a rash act, and certain to create dislocation and hardship. The
craziness of the idea was only achievable through the traumatizing psy-op of the sniper
event, leading directly to the coup and the state of war. The EU and the US were clearly
malevolent in orchestrating the Association agreement with its ridiculous terms and the
corresponding Maidan pressures.
The fools in Hong Kong, after protester-sponsored screenings of the World On Fire
documentary, were actually quoted as presuming the Maidan protests had "won" and expressed
their hopes that they too could "win". Good luck to them.
Kolomoisky and Zelensky know what needs to be done, but they fear the blood that will flow
with Nazi-Banderist scum! Zelinski's balls are not that big, and has no options left after
compromising his position from day one. Who will make the first move, I fear not him? Russia
has time, and patience, which is sorely lacking in the west who feel they have to push the
envelope.
The Minsk II protocol was agreed to on 12 February 2015 by the leaders of Ukraine, Russia,
France, and Germany, It included provisions for a halt in the fighting, the withdrawal of
foreign forces, new constitution to allow special status for Donbass, and election in Donbass
for local self governance. Control of the present border of Ukraine would be restored to the
Ukraine government. Donbass would continue to be in Ukraine with some autonomy here (scroll down).
There are many such autonomous zones in the world, and in Europe, seen here .
The problem in Ukraine is that the neo-Nazi factions promoted by the US don't want to see a
resolution, and will fight it with US support.
Kolomoysky is obviously a master thief and general scumbag...but he is no fool...
I think the writing on the wall became obvious with the Nordstream 2 finalization, where,
it is noted, Denmark came in just under the wire in terms of not disrupting the
timetable...
Obviously the interests of German business have prevailed...and rightly so in this
case...
And what of the famous EU line about 'protecting' Ukraine as a gas transit
corridor...?
LOLOLOL...that is in the same category of nothingburger as the EU noises about 'alternate
payment' mechanisms for trade with Iran...
As soon as the Denmark story broke, Gazprom and Russian energy analysts talked openly
about the tiny volumes that Ukraine could expect to see transiting its territory...as part of
a new agreement to replace the one that has expired...
It works out to a small fraction of the several billion dollars in transit fees the
Ukraine was getting...
Also considering that the IMF appears to be finally shutting off the tap of loans to this
failed gangster state...and that the promises from the EU in 2013 were just so much fairy
tales...hard-nosed operators like Kolomoysky are recalculating...
The chaos and national ruin has really cost these gangster capitalists nothing [in fact
they have profited wildly]...so it is easy for them to reverse course and come begging back
to Russia...
Bryan MacDonald has a good piece about this today in RT...
So, here we are, almost six years since the first "EuroMaidan" protests in Kiev, and
Ukraine's most prominent oligarch has finally voiced the unmentionable: the project has
failed.
As for Kolomoysky...like Trump, there is something to like about dirtballs who speak their
minds openly...LOL
Quite a turnaround by Kolomoisky. Wasn't he once caught on a tapped phone call admitting
while chuckling about Ukrainian complicity in shooting down MH-17? i.e. NOT Donbas rebels and
NOT Russia.
@12 karlof1... a referendum... as if the usa would agree to that, lol.... look how they
processed the one in crimea...
@18 flankerbandit... last line is true, but it pales in relation to the ugliness these 2
exhibit 99% of the time, although the 1% when they don't it's refreshing! ukraine will
continue to be used as a tool by the west..
forget about any referendum.. that makes too much sense and won't be allowed..
Nordstream 2 will come online in less than 2 months and the Ukrainian gas exports at that
time will cease (I.e. no oil for the Oligarchs to steal), no matter what the US says they
can't replace the Russian oil exports in terms of money & support to Ukraine, so the
Oligarchs are now positioning themselves to abandon the US in order for the Russians to keep
even a tiny bit of oil flowing into their pockets
It's a tough balancing act, being a Ukrainian oligarch. For two decades they stole what they
could from the Ukraine (and from perverting the various sweetheart deals Russia was
providing). Once the industry and energy money was stripped, and Russia started closing the
spigots, they managed to get the West to pump in ungodly amounts of cash so long as they
would agree to talk mean about Russia, and didn't mind the US machine taking its cut of the
loot.
But now the Ukrainian thieves are beginning to realize that the Western thieves are going
to steal the very ground from under their feet, so there will be no more Ukraine to steal
from. That's not a very good business model. Plus they're no doubt seeing how the US treats
its partners in crime in Syria and elsewhere, and realize they could easily find themselves
the next meal for the US beast. Pretty easy to see why the smarter ones are getting
nervous.
they need to make peace with Russia or they will be left out in the cold, literally. They
seemed to have previously bought into some insane lie that they'd be a part of the EU and
NATO if theyd do Washington's bidding. The Deep state vastly underestimated Putin's resolve
when it became clear to the Russians that Washington may try and turn Crimea into a NATO port
one day. The game is over. Ukraine needs to find a way forward now for itself or it will be a
failed state in the near future. It's clear Merkel and Europe want no part of this headache
I don't think Russians want to 'own' any part of Ukraine...at least that is the nearly
unanimous opinion of my own contacts and colleagues in Russia...so I don't think any
referenda will be on the table...
What I do think is possible is what Yanukovich and Russia agreed to in terms of a trade
and economic deal...which was a lot more practical [not to mention generous] than the EU
'either or' nonsense...
Ukraine has run itself into the ground, literally...now they are selling vast tracts of
agricultural land to huge Euro agribusiness concerns...literally dispossessing themselves of
their own food security...
At the time of the Soviet dissolution, Ukraine had the highest living standards and some
of the world's prime industry and technology...including for instance the Yuzhnoye design
bureau [rocket engines and spacecraft] and many more such cutting edge aerospace
concerns...
For years these crucial enterprises were able to keep going due to the Russian
market...that all ended in 2014 [and in fact was tapering off even before due to the massive
corruption]...
Now the Chinese are looking to scoop up these gems at firesale prices...
It is really quite unbelievable that the nutcases in the Ukraine would be willing to cut
off their own arm just to bleed on Russia's shirt...
Why did the Ukraine never recover from the gangster capitalism like Russia did...because
no Putin ever came along to reign in the oligarchy...[It could be argued Putin hasn't done
nearly enough in this regard].
The Ukraine is actually a preview of what we can expect to see in our own future...as the
unleashed oligarchy similarly runs everything into the ground in order to extract maximal
wealth for a parasite elite...already we are nothing but a Ponzi Scheme on the verge of
toppling...
Kolomoisky is talking his book and helping USA to make the case that Nordstream is a NATO
security issue. To pretend that he's serious about a rapproachment with Russia just plays
into that effort.
And b ignores my comment on the prior thread that he references (about Trump being
Constitutionally charged with foreign policy). Repeating: the "Imperial Presidency" has flung
off Constitutional checks and balances by circumventing the need to get Congressional
approval for spending. Wars (like Syria) are now be funded by Gulf Monarchies, black ops, and
black budgets.
While for practical reasons the Executive Branch of USA government has the power to
negotiate treaties and manage foreign relations, Constitutionally he does so for the
sovereign (the American people) and his efforts are subject to review and approval of the
people's representatives via the power of the purse.
Ignoring how the "Imperial Presidency" has usurped power leads to faulty analysis that
supports that power grab.
Ukrainegate IS a farce, but for other reasons. Chief among them being the inherent fakery
of 'managed democracy' which manifests as kayfabe.
There is an Imperial State (the ruling faction)which consists of imperial apparatchiks
placed in every key position in government.
There is one and only one Western Empire and its deep state spreads throughout Western
governments and society. They are the owners of the world and they run the world they
own.
Nicely put:- that is the reality. Thanks b for your intrepid reports.
Paul Craig Roberts has a deeply aggrieved rant at zero hedge if barflies want a chuckle.
What a shitshow.
Crimea?
It has been part of Russia about as long as the USA has been a country.
9 out of 10 residents are of Russian origin, and Russian is the spoken language.
I guess it could be returned to the 10%-- but out of fairness, we must turn the USA over to
its original occupants.
If you live in the USA, get your ass ready to leave.
One of the problems that the anti-nazis face in Ukraine is that there are occupying armies in
the country. Armies which cannot be trusted to obey instructions which are not agreed upon by
NATO warmongers.
One such army is Canadian, commanded I believe by a descendant of the Ukrainian SS refugees
and reporting to the Foreign Minister in Ottawa, a Russophobe with a family background of
nazi collaboration.
The actual political situation is much more delicate than media reports suggest: what are
called elections feature, in the Washington approved fashion, the banning of socialist and
communist candidates. Bans which are enforced by a combination of fascist commanded police
forces and, even less responsible, private nazi militias. Opponents of the Maidan regime are
driven into exile, jailed or murdered.
Those who wonder as Jackrabbit, in a rare essay into rationality, does above, about the
nature of the US Constitution after decades of the erosion of checks and balances thanks to
the Imperial Presidency, will recognise that a dialectic is at work here. Washington's
support for fascism abroad has instituted fascism at home which has led in turn to the
installation of fascist regimes abroad, not just occasionally but routinely. Wherever the US
intervenes it leaves a fascist regime, in which socialists are banned and persecuted, behind
it.
And what this means is that, among other things, the ability of the population to effect
political change is cancelled: there is no way that the people of Ukraine can decide what
they want because the decisions have been taken for them, in weird cult like gatherings of SS
worshiping Bandera supporters in Toronto and Chicago. It is no accident that most of the
'Ukrainians' being wheeled out by the Democrats to testify against Trump are actually greedy
expatriates who have never really lived in Ukraine.
There was a moment, not long ago, when it looked as if the Minsk accords promised a path to
peace and reconciliation. Unfortunately the plain people of Ukraine, the poorest in Europe
though living in one of the richest countries, Washington, Ottawa and NATO didn't like the
sound of Minsk. Nor did the fascists in the Baltic states and Poland, for whom, for
centuries, Ukraine has been a cow to milk, its people slaves to be exploited and its rich
resources too tempting to ignore.
As Thomas Jefferson explained the President's role in foreign affairs in 1790, and the lack
of advisors' policy making decisions: ''as the President was the only channel of
communication between the United States and foreign nations, it was from him alone 'that
foreign nations or their agents are to learn what is or has been the will of the nation';
that whatever he communicated as such, they had a right and were bound to consider 'as the
expression of the nation'; and that no foreign agent could be 'allowed to question it,' or
'to interpose between him and any other branch of government, under the pretext of either's
transgressing their functions.' Mr. Jefferson therefore declined to enter into any discussion
of the question as to whether it belonged to the President under the Constitution to admit or
exclude foreign agents. 'I inform you of the fact,' he said, 'by authority from the
President.'
Might also be worth yesterdays hero's asking if dear Mr Kolomoisky, joint Uki/Israeli
national, took a part in authorising the shoot down of MH17 as a news cover for Operation
Protective Edge. Heave ho zionist USA ....et al.
1.The decisions to with hold and release aid have nothing to do with the President making
foreign policy but with his campaign. Saying it was about foreign policy is a damned lie.
2.Trump as president is supposed to lead foreign policy, which means actually setting a
policy. Military aid to Ukraine, yes, except no, except yes, personal handling without asking
anybody with experience how to achieve the national goal desired, national agenda kept secret
from the people who have to carry it out, abuse of officials, demands for dubiously legal
actions without rationale...Saying it was about the president's executive role is a damned
lie.
3.Trump has not made even a tweet that questions US support for fascists. That not even a
issue for Trump. Saying this is about support for fascism is a damned lie.
4.Kolomoyskiy is a bankroller of fascists. It is not impossible even a billionaire might get
frightened by the genie he's let out of the bottle, even if he's Jewish and rich enough to
run away. But actually undoing the fascist regime means taming the paramilitaries and this is
not even on the horizon. Given the rivalry between Poroshenko and Kolomoyskiy it's not even
certain it's a real change of heart or just soothing words for the non-fascist people. Nor is
it even clear the Zelensky will follow even the Steinmeier formula. If he does, good, but
until something actually happens? Saying it's about the antifascist turn is a damned lie.
The only thing that isn't a lie is that Trump was not committing treasons, "merely" a
campaign violation. But then, Clinton never did either. The crybabies who dished it out but
can't take it deserve zero respect, and zero time.
Curious to know how Kolomoisky is working "feverishly" to end the war in the Donbass region.
Wonder if he is planning to come clean on what he knows of the Malaysia Airlines MH17
shootdown and crash in an area not far from Slavyansk and near where his Privat Group's
subsidiary company Burisma Holdings holds a licence to drill for oil and natural gas. What
does he know about Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control personnel's direction to MH17
to fly at 10,000 metres in the warzone and not an extra 1,000 metres above as the flight crew
had requested? He had been governor of Dnepropetrovsk region at the time.
Somewhere I read it alleged that the actual owner of Burisma was or is Kolomoiski.
Anything to this?
And via John Helmer (via Checkpointasia and dances with bears) comes the perspective that
it's not so much Kolomoiski floating trial balloons (though that may also be true) but that K
is being given space in the NYT to build his credentials as the new Borg villain, thereby
making it still harder for Zelensky to reconcile with Russia.
fb @ 25 said;"The Ukraine is actually a preview of what we can expect to see in our own
future...as the unleashed oligarchy similarly runs everything into the ground in order to
extract maximal wealth for a parasite elite...already we are nothing but a Ponzi Scheme on
the verge of toppling..."
Yup, aided and abetted by our current regime, while pretending not to...
@23
"It's a tough balancing act, being a Ukrainian oligarch. For two decades they stole what they
could from the Ukraine (and from perverting the various sweetheart deals Russia was
providing). Once the industry and energy money was stripped, and Russia started closing the
spigots, they managed to get the West to pump in ungodly amounts of cash so long as they
would agree to talk mean about Russia, and didn't mind the US machine taking its cut of the
loot."
This is it in a nutshell. The Russians were fed up with Ukraine stealing gas. Hence, Nord
Stream 2. That was always the plan. Whether the Yanks truly grasped the rationale here
---Russia is cutting off gas to Ukraine, simple---has never been clear to me. Although it is
a fairly simple plot. The Russians had decades of shenanigans with the Ukes and said Basta.
By not overreacting to the Ukrainian-USA freakout and keeping their eyes on the prize (Nord
Stream and disengaging, gas-wise, from Uk), they have managed to reach their goal of getting
Nord Stream 2 online.
Kolomoiski is the bankroller and commander of the Azov Battalion. Has close arrangements with
other paramilitaries. And is the current principal of Burisma. And is Privatbank, the only
bank left in Ukraine. He gets a cut of all the action.
When Trump queries Zelensky, all that Zelensky is thinking is this guy does not know the
score. This guy does not know who's on first. He wants me to investigate the boss? Let him
talk to the boss. And who does Z talk to in D.C.? Pointless getting into detail with
Trump.
Trump has no team. No one in D.C. is on his side. He's unable to finish anything.
1) Say the fantasy happens and the US/Russia become BFFs like US/UK...
- Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss?
- Tough to answer, many unknowns- Russia may act different once its on top, actors may
derail schemes, Deep State temper tantrum, etc...
In general, governments are the order-providing solution for chaos and problems that only
first existed inside the minds of those seeking power over others.
Kolomoiski is a U.S. asset. His interview with the NYTimes proves it.
His threats are meant to mobilize NATO and Russia haters in general; because Trump and
most of his cadre care nothing for Ukraine.
Does anyone think Russia will give Kolomoiski 100 million dollars? Why was he given an
opportunity to threaten the USA? For no reason? Something else is afoot but Russia still
won't take the bait because they are winning.
Russia is quite happy with the status quo. The war in Ukraine keeps the war against Russia
on a level which is easy to manipulate and therefore geostrategically beneficial. Kolomoiski
will get nothing.
Thank you, b, for that snippet from NY Interview with Kolomoisky . I had glanced the headline
on RT but didn't read it because of RT's usual clumsy writing.
Kolomoiski is taunting the empire: investigate my crimes and
ukraine will seek reconciliation and alliance with russia.
Russia won't fall for it. They want kolomoiski's scalp even
more than the empire. From the statements putin has made, maybe
the only concession russia would accept is the dissolution of
ukraine as a sovereign entity and reintegration with russia, minus galicia.
Putin has remarked that they are not one people but one state. Ukraine
already knows that its domestic industry is only viable in competition
with the eu industrial powerhouses if it is integrated with russia.
What does [Kolomoysky] know about Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk air traffic control
personnel's direction to MH17 to fly at 10,000 metres in the warzone and not an extra 1,000
metres above as the flight crew had requested?
Okay..so an interesting can of worms here...
First is the fact that Kolomoysky was the governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast at the
time...
Now as to the flight and Dnipro Radar [the regional air traffic control facility that
controls a very big chunk of airspace over eastern Ukraine]...
First the issue of the airplane cruising altitude...the crew had filed their flight plan
to climb from flight level 330 [33,000 ft] to FL350 after passing a certain waypoint in
eastern Ukraine...
Now the controllers did instruct the crew to go ahead and climb to their planned altitude,
but the crew declined the clearance and opted to stay at FL330...this was done very
likely because the atmospheric conditions at that height were better for fuel economy...
[To be even more specific...the Boeing manual gave an optimum flight altitude of 33,800
ft, but flying eastward you only have odd numbered flight levels to choose from, so the crew
figured they would be better off staying at 33 than climbing to 35...]
BUT...there are a couple of very curious things here...
First is the fact that Dnipro controllers deviated the airplane from its flight
plan just before it went down...ostensibly due to other traffic...
We can see this in the following map, which is what's called a high altitude en route
chart, which is used by pilots to plan and execute their flight...
You will note a couple of things here...the airplane is flying on the L980 airway
[basically a highway in the sky] when it is turned south by controllers to the RND waypoint,
which is in Russian territory...
This is NOT the route filed by the crew...which can be seen here...
They were supposed to continue flying on L980 right to the TAMAK waypoint, which is
visible on the previous chart and is right on the border with Russia...
They would have continued on the A87 airway to their next waypoint in Russia which is
TIKNA...
Now here is the thing...right after they were turned south, they got shot down...
According to the radio transcripts, the crew acknowledged the course change, but did not
object...however, usually these kinds of course changes aren't appreciated on the flight deck
because the crew is trying to minimize wasted time and wasted fuel on course
deviations...
Most times you will just not bother to complain to controllers...but for sure there will
always be chatter between the captain and copilot about being yanked around like that...
No mention is made in the Dutch Safety Board report about such chatter from the cockpit
voice recorder, which I find very odd...
Also odd is the fact that Dnipro ATC primary radar was down, and only the so-called
'secondary' was working which uses the transponder signals from the airplane...
This is very busy airspace because a lot of flights from western Europe to South Asia
traverse this territory...the plan is always to fly what's called a 'great circle route'
which is basically a straight line, if you flattened out the globe...
Plus considering that you have a war going on underneath...it's very unusual to have your
PRIMARY radar inoperable...
This is significant also because military aircraft will not be using transponders and so
will not be visible to the secondary surveillance...
The Russian primary radar did pick up two other aircraft very nearby MH17...but the Dutch
have made some kind of excuse about that data not being in 'raw' form and thus not
usable...
So we see some very suspicious anomalies here...
The Ukrainian authorities did have a NOTAM [notice to airmen] in effect up to FL320
[32,000 ft] so commercial traffic could not fly under that height...but clearly they should
have closed the airspace over the hot conflict area...
They didn't do that...and Kolomoysky was in charge...
The Deep State's view on the members' God given right to make foreign policy decisions (it
must be the God who has give it to them, because the people certainly have not) just reminds
the of the general attitude of the Government's bureaucracy. Give any fartbag a position in
the government and he/she becomes "a prince/princes over the people", give him or her a
monopoly over violence and you got yourself a king/queen. All these police and military kings
& queens milling around and lording over us. "Deep State" is such a totally natural
consequence of the government bureaucracy corrupted by power that it appropriated.
Pillaging taxes from the sheeple (and taking young maidens like Sheriff of
Nottingham/Epstein) could have never ever been enough. Did you seriously think that the Deep
Staters would constrain themselves to only stealing your money, taking your children for
their pleasure and to die in their wars of conquest, and putting you into a totally unsafe
airplanes to die for their profit? Constrain themselves when there is a whole globe out there
to be lorded over, like Bidens over Ukraine? It is the poor people of Ukraine who just have
too much money, thus had to give it through the gas monopoly to the Biden gang, which
selflessly brought them "democracy" at $5B in US taxpayers' expense. Therefore, it is the
Deep State which has been chosen by God, or someone just like that, to make the decisions
about the imperialist/globalist foreign policy and have billions of dollars thrown by the
grateful natives into their own pockets, as consulting fees:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/leaked-bank-records-confirm-burisma-biden-payments-morgan-stanley-account
So far the only clear-cut globalization is that one of crime, which has become
global.
What is the US National Interest b asks? Who defines it as such?
Ome magazine that might know is none other than The National Interest. Hopefully I won't
get attacked for quoting from what seems like a fairly sane article to me....
"The US should consider whom they are giving weapons to. Ukraine is a debt-ridden state
and only five years beyond an extralegal revolution. Should the government collapse again,
then American weapons could end up in the possession of any number of dubious paramilitary
groups.
It wouldn't be the first time. In the 2000s, CIA operatives were forced to repurchase
Stinger missiles that had fallen into the hands of Afghani warlords -- at a markup.
Originally offered to the Mujahideen in the 1980s, the Stingers came to threaten American
forces in the region. Similarly, many weapons provided with US authorization to Libyan rebels
in 2011 ended up in the possession of jihadists."
It's difficult to find clean information on happenings within Ukraine and those involving
Russia. The Ministry of Foreign affairs has this page
dedicated to the "Situation Around Ukraine." Of the three most recent listings,
this one --"Comment by Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova on the NATO
Council's visit to Ukraine"--from 1 November is quite important as it deals with the reality
on the ground versus the circus happening thousands of miles away, although it's clear the
delusions in Washington and Brussels are the same and "continue to be guided by the Cold War
logic of exaggerating the nonexistent 'threat from the East' rather than the interests of
pan-European security."
In the
second most recent listing --"Remarks by Deputy Permanent Representative of the Russian
Federation to the OSCE Vladimir Zheglov at the OSCE Permanent Council meeting on the
situation in Ukraine and the need to implement the Minsk Agreements, Vienna, October 31,
2019"--the following was noted:
"There's more to it. The odious site Myrotvorets continues to function using servers
located in the United States. The UN has repeatedly stated that this violates the presumption
of innocence and the right to privacy. Recently, Deputy Head of the UN Human Rights
Monitoring Mission in Ukraine, Benjamin Moreau, reiterated the recommendation to shut down
this website. A similar demand was made by other representatives of the international
community, including the German government. The problem was brought to the attention of the
European Court of Human Rights. The other day, the representative of Ukraine at the ECHR was
made aware of the groundlessness of the Ukrainian government's excuses saying that it
allegedly 'has no influence' on the above website.
"In closing, recent opinion polls in Ukraine indicate that its residents are expecting the
government to do more to bring peace to Donbas. The path to a settlement is well known, that
is, the full implementation of the Minsk Package of Measures of February 12, 2015, that was
approved by the UN Security Council."
Clearly, Zelensky's government is much like Poroschenko's when it comes to listening to
those who empowered it, the above citation is one of several from the overall report.
The latest report deals with an ongoing case at the International Court of Justice at The
Hague that reveals some of the anti-Russian bias there. It has no bearing on this discussion,
although it does provide evidence of the contextual background against which the entire
affair, including the circus in Washington, operates.
MoA consensus is Minsk backed NATO and its Ukrainian minions into a corner from which
there's only one way out, which is the implementation of the Accords they continue to oppose
to implement despite their promise to do so. Clearly an excellent example of not being
agreement capable that hasn't changed since 2015.
If the Republicans had any brains, they'd turn the Ukrainian aspect of the hearings into
an indictment against Obama/Biden for illegally overthrowing Kiev and trying to obtain their
piece-of-the-action, but then that would be the logical thing to do and thus isn't an option.
The prospect of each day providing similar spectacle is mind numbing as it airs the sordid,
unwashed underwear if the Evil Outlaw US Empire.
I normally do not reply to trolls, but I make an exception for you. Pedo-dollar? Do you have
any more such crap to dilute the valid points discussed here?
i liked what @ 32 tod said - "he's just doing the old Jewish threatening/begging
dance!
"And you are forcing us to be at war, and not even giving us the money for it." Wink!
Wink!"
stating the obvious is one remedy for any possible confusion here..
@54 karlof1... i don't believe trump is allowed to shine any light on the usas illegal
actions as that would be sacrilege to all the americans who see their country in such a
great, exceptional-ist light... how would trumps MAGA concept swallow that? it wouldn't, so
it won't happen...
You are a bit off on that story. NS2 pipeline will increase the capacity not transitioning
via Ukraine and reduce the price banditry by the Ukrainian & US gangs, but it will not
make gas transit via Ukraine unnecessary. The planned switch off of the German nuclear and
coal power plants will gradually increase the German demand for gas, that is the Russian gas
by so much that NS1 and NS2 will not be enough. Primarily, NS2 is a signal to the Ukrainian
& US Democrat gangs that if they try excessive transit fees and stealing of gas again,
that they will be circumvented within a few years by NS 3,4,5 ...
BTW, the globalized pillaging of the population is clearly not an invention of the DNC
crime gang only. For example, the 737Max is a product of primarily Republican activity on
deregulating what should have never been deregulated and subjugation to the Wall Street (aka
financialization). The pillaging of the World is strictly bipartisan, just differently
packaged:
1) R - packaging the deregulation to steal & kill as "freedom" or
2) D - packaging the regime change as responsibility to protect R2P (such regime change and
stuffing of own pockets later).
karlof1 @54 - "Minsk backed NATO and its Ukrainian minions into a corner from which
there's only one way out, which is the implementation of the Accords"
Yes. As you well know, and as we have well discussed, Minsk was in its very essence the
surrender terms dictated to the US by NAF and Russia in return for letting the NATO
contractors go free and secretly out of the Debaltsevo cauldron. Either actually or
poetically, this was the basis. The US lost against NAF. The only way to prevent Donbass
incursion into the rest of Ukraine was to freeze the situation. The US had no choice, and
surrendered.
Out of the heat and fog of warfare came a simple document made of words which, even so,
illustrated perfectly just how elegantly the Kremlin had the entire situation both war-gamed
and peace-gamed. Minsk from that day until forever has locked the Ukraine play into a lost
war of attrition for the US sponsors, with zero gain - except for thieves.
To attempt to parse Ukraine in terms of statecraft is to miss the point that Ukraine can
only be parsed in terms of thievery. This is not cynicism, simply truth.
Now they sell their land because this is all there is left to sell. Kolomoisky proposes
selling the entire country to Russia for $100 billion but not only will Russia not bite, the
country isn't worth even a fraction of that - because of Minsk, it can cause zero harm to
Russia. But this ploy raises the perceived value (Kolomoisky hopes) in the eyes of the west,
and starts the bidding.
In Russia the people see all this very clearly, including on their TV. Yakov Kedmi in this
Vesti News clip of
Vladimir Soloviev's hugely popular talk show, discusses the situation. He baits Soloviev by
saying that the Ukrainian thieves are only doing what the Russian thieves did in the 1990's -
and one must filter through this badinage to take out the nuggets he supplies. Here are
three:
1. Zelensky has no security apparatus that follows his command, therefore how can he be
considered the leader of the country?
2. There is no power in Ukraine, only forces that contend over the scraps of plunder.
3. These forces are creating the only law there is, which is the sacred nature of private
property for the rich - the only thing the US holds sacred.
Therefore sell the very soil.
~~
The Minsk agreement is a sheer wall of ice reaching to the sky. No force imaginable can
scale it or break it. Against that ultimate, immovable wall the US pounds futilely, with
Ukraine caught in the middle, while Russia waits for Ukraine to devolve into whatever it
can.
And the Russian people and government regard the people of the Ukraine as brothers and
sisters. But until the west has worn itself down, and either gone away or changed the
equation through a weakening of its own position in some significant way, nothing can be done
by Russia except to wait.
What Tod @32 described is spot-on, "the old Jewish threatening/begging dance". It is not that
the Russians do not know this about Kolomoyskyi. They will play along not expecting anything
from the Zelo-on-a-String and his master. The Russians like to let those scumbags (Erdo comes
to mind) huff & puff and embarrass themselves by flips. They know - it could always be
worse if those did something intelligent. Kolomoyskyi is vile but he ain't no genius, not any
more than Erdo.
Sure Cheeza...everybody's a 'bit off' except you...
Gazprom is talking about 10 bcm a year through Ukraine for the new 10 year deal, as
opposed to the 60 bcm [billion cubic meters] that Ukraine is hoping for...
"Deep state" is misleading and actually a false construction.
There is an Imperial State (the ruling faction/)which consists of imperial apparatchiks
placed in every key position in government. Babyl-on @ 8
? before I begin , how do you measure the political and economic power of money
as opposed to the political and economic power of the intentions and needs of the masses.
Does $1 control a 100 people? A million dollars control 100,000,000 people? How do we measure
the comparative values between money power and people power? I think the divisions of
economics and the binaries of politics established by the nation state system means that the
measurement function (political and economic values) varies as a function of the total wealth
vs the total population in each nation state. If true, become obvious how it is that: foreign
investments displaces the existing homeostatis in any particular nation state, the smaller
the poorer the nation state, the more impact foreign wealth can have; in other words outside
wealth can completely destroy the homeostatis of an existing nation state. I think it is this
fact which makes globalization so attractive to the ruling interest (RI) and so damning to
the poorest of the poor.
Change by amendment is impossible There is one and only one Western Empire but
there is also an Eastern Empire, a southern empire, and a Northern Empire and I believe the
ruling interest (faction) manipulate all nations through these empires. In fact, they can do
this in any nation they wish. The world has been divided into containers of humans and
propaganda and culture have highly polarized the humans in one container against the humans
in other containers. <=divide, polarize, then exploit: its like pry the window, and gain
access to the residence, then exploit. It is obvious that the strength of the resistance to
ruling class exploitation is a function of common cause among the masses. But money allows to
control both the division of power and the polarization of the masses. The persons who have
the powers described in Article II of the US Constitution since Lincoln was murdered can be
controlled (Epstein, MSM directed propaganda, impeachment, assassination, to accomplish the
objects of the ruling interest (faction). Article II of the USA constitution removes foreign
activity of the USA from domestic view of the governed at home Americans. Article II makes it
possible for the POTUS to use American assets and resources to assist his/her feudal lords in
exploiting foreign nations almost at will and there is no way governed Americans can control
who the ruling interest place in the Article II position.
A little History Immigration to NYC from Eastern (the poor) and Western (the
rich) Europe transitioned NYC and other cities from Irish majority to a Jewish majority; and
the wealthy interest used the Jewish majorities in key cities to take control over both
Article I and Article II constitutional powers by electing field effect controlled
politicians (political puppets are elected that can be reprogrammed while they are in office
to suit the ruling interest. The source code is called rule of law, and money buys the
programmers who write the code. So the ruling interest can reprogram in field effect fashion,
any POTUS they wish. Out of sight use of the resources of America in foreign lands is nothing
new, it was established when the constitution was written in Philadelphia in 1787 and
ratified in 1788.
Propaganda targeted to the Jewish Immigrants allowed the wealthy interest to
control the outcome of the 1912 election. That election allowed to destroy Article I,
Section 9, paragraph 4 " No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid unless in
Proportion to the Census of enumeration herein before directed to be taken". and to enact a
law which privatized the USA monopoly on money into the hands of private bankers (the federal
reserve act of 1913)
What was the grand design Highly competitive, independent too strong economic
Germany was interfering with Western hegemony and the oil was in the lands controlled by the
Ottomans. It took two wars, but Germany was destroyed, and the Ottoman empire (basically the
entire Middle East) became the war gained property of the British (Palestine), the French
(Syria) and the USA (Israel). Since then, the ruling interest have used their (field effect
devices to align governments so the wealthy could pillage victim societies the world over.
Field effect programming allows wealth interest to use the leaders of governments to use such
governments to enable pillage in foreign places. The global rich and powerful, and their
corporations are the ruling interest.
psychohistorian says it well "..the global private finance core segment of empire is
behind Trump and throwing America(ns) under the bus as the world turns more multilateral. The
cult of global private finance intends on still having some overarching super-national role
in the new multilateral world and holding debt guns to everyone's heads to make it
ongoing..." by psychochistorian @ 10
NOBITs @ 11 says it also "All presidents have been servants of the military, which includes
the police/intel/security apparatus; the few who did not entirely accept their figurehead
role were "dealt with." Kennedy, Nixon, Carter and now Trump. The Washington permanent state
bureaucrats are shocked and understandably offended; they have after all, been running US
foreign policy for 75 years!" by: NOBTS @ 11
According to TG @ 13 "Democracy" is about privatizing power and socializing
responsibility. The elites get to set the policy, but the public at large gets to take
responsibility when things go wrong. Because you see, we are a "Democracy."by: TG @ 13 <=
absolutely not.. the constitution isolates governed Americans from the USA, because the USA
is a republic and republics are about privatizing power and socializing responsibility;
worse, there ain't nothing you can do about it.
Vonu @ 19 says "According to Kevin Shipp, the National Security Council really runs the
executive branch, not the president. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=XHbrOg092GA"
by: Vonu @ 19 <=but it is by the authority of Ariicle II that the NSC has the power to run
the executive branch?
KAdath @ 22 says "the Oligarchs are now positioning themselves to abandon the US in
order for the Russians to keep even a tiny bit of oil flowing into their pockets by: Kadath @
22" <=exactly.. but really its not abandoning the USA, its abandoning the oligarchs local
to the pillaged nation..
J Swift @ 23 says "the US treats its partners in crime in Syria and elsewhere,"
[poorly] but its not the USA per say, because only one person has the power to deal in
foreign places. Its that the POTUS, or those who control the Article II powers vested in the
POTUS, have or has been reprogrammed.. J. Switft @23>>
flankerbandit @ 25 says " Ukraine has run itself into the ground, literally...now they
are selling vast tracts of agricultural land to huge Euro agribusiness concerns...literally
dispossessing themselves of their own food security..." flankerbandit @ 25 <=Not really
the wealthy (investor interest) have pushed the pillage at will button.. since there is no
resistance remaining, the wealthy will take it all for a song..
Jackrabbit @ 26 says "Trump [is].. Constitutionally charged with foreign policy. Repeating:
the "Imperial Presidency" has flung off Constitutional checks and balances by circumventing
the need to get Congressional approval for spending. Wars (like Syria) are now be funded by
Gulf Monarchies, black ops, and black budgets.by Jackrabbit @ 26 <== Trumps orders
military to take 4 million day from Syria in oil?
your observation that the money has circumvented Article I of the COUS explains why the
democraps are so upset.. the wealthy democrap interest has been left to rot? Your comment
suggest s mafia is in charge?
Tod @ 32 says "As soon as some money goes his way, he'll discover democracy again.
Sorry to burst you bubbles." by: Tod @ 32" <==understatement of the day.. thanks.
Bevin @ 32 says "a dialectic is at work here. Washington's support for fascism abroad
has instituted fascism at home which has led in turn to the installation of fascist regimes
abroad, not just occasionally but routinely. Wherever the US intervenes it leaves a fascist
regime, in which socialists are banned and persecuted, behind it. this means.. the ability of
the population to effect political change is cancelled" by bevin @ 33 <= yes but there is
really no difference in a republic and its rule of law, and a fascist government and its
military police both rule without any influential input from the governed.
michael @ 34 reaffirms "The President was the only channel of communication between the
United States and foreign nations, it was from him alone 'that foreign nations or their
agents are to learn what is or has been the will of the nation'" michael @ 34 well known to
barflies, the design of national constitutions is at the heart of the global problem. Until
constitutional powers are placed in control of the governed there will never be a change in
how the constitutional powers ( in case of the USA Article II powers) are used and
abused.
OutofThinAir @45 says "In general, governments are the order-providing solution for
chaos and problems that only first existed inside the minds of those seeking power over
others.by: OutOfThinAir @ 45" <+governments are the tools of wealth interest and the
governors their hired hands.
by: War is Peace @48 " Trump is a moron, groomed by Jewish parents ( Mother was Jewish,
Father buried at biggest Jewish cementary in NYC ) to be a non-Jew worked for the mob under
Cohen ( lawyer for 1950's McCarthy ); Became the 'Goyim Fool" real estate developer as a
cover for laundering mob money. So that it didn't appear that it was Jewish Mafia Money, so
they could work with the Italian Mafia. Trump went on for his greatest role ever to be the
"fool in Chief" of the USA for AIPAC. What better way to murder people, than send out a fool,
it causes people to drop their guard. by War is Peace @48 <= yes this is my take, What
does it mean. com suggest the global wealth interest may be planning to reprogram Trump to
better protect the interest of the global wealthy.
Kiza @ 51 the reason for globalization is explained see above=> response to Babyl-on @
8
dh @ 53 says ""The US should consider whom they are giving weapons to." by dh @53 <
the USA cannot consider anything, if its foreign the POTUS (Article II) makes all decisions
because Art II gives the POTUS a monopoly on talking to, and dealing with, foreign
governments.
Deagel @ 56 says "The American people don't care, they're all drugged out, and shitting
on the side-walks all over the USA, and sleeping in their own shit. This is the best time in
USA history for the Zionists to do anything they wish." by: Deagel @ 56 <= I think you
under estimate the value Americans place on democracy and human rights, until recently
governed Americans believed the third party privately produced MSM delivered propaganda that
nearly all overseas operations by the USA were to separate the people in those places from
their despotic leaders, and to help those displaced people install Democracy.. many Americans
have come to understand such is far from the case.. the situation in the Ukraine has been an
eye opener for many Americans. thoughts are sizzling, talk is happening, and people are
trying to shut google out of their lives. that is why i think Trump is about to be
reprogrammed from elected leader to .. God in charge
I watched that Soloviev segment with Kedmi the other day...always interesting to say the
least...
Btw...I'm not really up to speed on that whole Debaltsevo cauldron thing...I've heard
snippets here and there...[there is a guy, Auslander, who comments on the Saker blog that
seems to have excellent first hand info, but I've only caught snippets here and there]...
I hadn't heard this part of the story before about Nato contractors as bargaining
chips...if you care to shed a bit more light I will be grateful...
I suggest going to The Saker Blog and
enter Debaltsevo Cauldron into the site's search box and click Submit where you'll be greeted
with numerous results.
Grieved @62--
Thanks for your reply and excellent recap. As I recall, Putin wants Donbass to remain in
Ukraine and Ukraine to remain a whole state, although I haven't read his thoughts on the
matter for quite some months as everything has revolved around implementing Minsk. The items
at the Foreign Ministry I linked to are also concerned with Minsk.
The circus act in DC is trying to avoid any mention of Minsk, the coup or anything
material to the gross imperial meddling done there to enrich the criminal elite, which
includes Biden, Clinton, other DNC members--a whole suite of actors that omits Trump in this
case, although they're trying to pin something on him. The issue being studiously ignored is
Obama/Biden needed to be busted for their actions at the time, but in time-honored fashion
weren't. And the huge rotted sewer of corruption related to that action and ALL that came
before is the real problem at issue.
Typical reaction of a zelf-zentered person as evidenced by The New Yorker 737Max article
in the previous thread. This good article could only be measured by how much it agrees with
your own opinion that MCAS was put in to mimic the pilots' usual fly-stick feel. If anyone
does his home work, such as the journalist of this article, then he must agree with you,
right? With experts such as you out there, why would anyone dare apply common sense and say
that it would be an unimaginably stupid idea to put in ANY AUTOMATED SYSTEM which pushes
the plane's nose down during ascent (the most risky phase of a civilian flight, when almost
desperately trying to get up and up and up) for any DUMBLY POSSIBLE REASON !? What could
ever go wrong with such an absolutely dumbly initiated system relying on one sensor? Maybe it
was a similar idea to putting a cigarette lighter right next to the car's gas tank because it
lights up cigarettes better when there are gasoline vapors around. Or maybe an idea of
testing the self-driving lithium battery (exploding & flammable) cars near kindergartens
(of some other people's children)!?
An intelligent person would have said - whatever the reason was to put in MCAS it was a
terribly dumb idea, instead of congratulating himself on understanding the "true reason".
"If I were president, while I would resist gratuitous provocations, I would not publicly
associate myself with the delusion that stable friendship is possible (or, frankly,
desirable) with Putin's anti-American dictatorship, which runs its country like a Mafia
family and is acting on its revanchist ambitions."
Really?
From what have gleaned from the alternative media available on the internet ,of which MOA is
an important part. Putin and Lavrov are the two most moral and diplomatic statesmen on the
world stage today Compared to Trump, Johnson, Macron, Merkel, Stoltenberg, Pompeo, Bolton and
whoever else blights the international scene these days these two are colossi.
To describe
them as like a Mafia family seems to me to be 180 degrees wrong. Maybe Putin overreacted, in
his early days in power, to the Chechen conflict but look at the situation today.
Look at how
Gorbachev and Yeltsin were played by the west. I appreciate you did not write the words
quoted above but you said you agree with them and I find that startling given I am usually
very admiring of your insight and knowledge of geopolitical events.
According to the Impeachniks, it is Schiff's staff who decides how Schiff votes and his
policies. It would be illegal for Schiff to make decisions. But Schiff's recommendation will
make or break the careers of his staff, so elected Schiff has some influence. That's not true
for elected Trump, because those in his service already have made careers and/or a host of
outsiders looking to place them.
Although, he didn't get impeached for it Obama did get criticized for not sending the aid to
Ukraine. He was also criticized when he did intervene, but not fast enough for the deep
state. Remember "leading from behind" in response to Libya. Obama was much more popular and
circumspect than Trump, which protected him from possible impeachment when he went off the
deep state's script.
Discussion of the USC and the responsibilities assigned therein is probably a foolish and
merely moot exercise, as law is, ultimately simply custom over time, and since '45 or so the
custom has become dissociated from the documents' provisions, particularly with regard to
war-making and the "licensed" import and sale of dangerous drugs, dope. The custom in place
is essentially ukase - rule by decree. Many decree are secret.
I do not object, simply pointing to the obvious.
This is a public secret anybody can know. Inter alia see The Politics of Heroin in
Southeast Asia (McCoy)
...........
Custom includes also permitted theft, blackmail, trafficking children and so forth.
...........
zerohedge put up some documents tying TGM Hunter B to the money from Ukraine...
................
I would not worry about the name of the person called president. The real sitrep is more
like watching rape and murder from the dirty windows of a runaway train.
Upon the dissolution of the USSR, Ukraine was left with the fifth-largest nuclear arsenal in
the world. In exchange for financial assistance in the costs of removing all the nukes, the
West guaranteed to defend Ukraine's territorial integrity.
In the meantime, Russia has annexed the Crimea and rebels have taken control of parts of
Eastern Ukraine. The West has not provided any direct military assistance to restore those
territorial infringements.
Since the West has reneged on its end of the deal, would it not only be fair to return
Ukraine's nukes so it can defend itself like the Big Boys do, namely with threat of nuclear
annihilation?
I hate this trope. The Russian Fed. is not launching offensive operations to capture
Kharkov or Kiev. Western Ukraine is shelling ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine. What would
U.S. Congressman say if these were Jews? (I would condemn that as well).
The next time someone pontificates, 'Ukrainians are dying because Trump held up aid' ask
them how many. The number is ZERO. Javelins are not being used on the front line.
Mr. Kolomoisky is spot on, i.e. when he says that the Americans will only use Ukrainians as
their little bitches to fight and die for America's gain against Russia. Just like the
Americans fucked over the Kurds in Syria, using them as proxy fighters to do USA/Israel's
dirty work. Wherever the USA shows up and starts interfering, everything turns into shit:
Iraq...Afghanistan...Venezuela...Bolivia...Ukraine...Libya...Yemen...Nicaragua...Ecuador...the
list is quite long. It remains to be seen if Mr. Kolomoisky can bring about rapprochement
with Russia. He'd better watch his back.
"Wow. My opinion of Kolomoisky has just improved ... somewhat." --Seamus Padraig @73
Yes, Kolomoisky has moved up a notch in my estimation as well; from the low of
"monstrously inhuman spawn of satan" all the way up to "rabid dog" . That's
quite the dramatic improvement, I must admit.
I am very glad to see you back, Grieved, and your 'wall of ice' metaphor is indeed accurate.
To me, the promising signs in Ukraine were even as here in the US when voters fought back
against what b calls Deep State, which I am sure in my heart was even more of an overwhelming
surge than registered - the best the corrupters of the system could do was make it close
enough to be a barely legitimate win for their side, and they didn't succeed. Maybe somewhere
along their line of shenanigans a small cog in the wheel got religion and didn't do their
'job'. An unsung hero who will sing when it's safe.
I hope, dearly hope, it gets safe in Ukraine very soon. They are us only further down the
line than we are, but we will get there if we can't totally remove the cancer in our midst.
That's our job; I wish Ukraine all the best in removing theirs.
Jen...I should have made clear that the two aircraft picked up by Russian PRIMARY RADAR were
unidentified...
The two commercial flights you mention were in the area and were known to both Russian and
Ukrainian controllers by means of the SECONDARY SURVEILLANCE RADAR, which picks up the
aircraft transponder signals...
However, secondary WILL NOT pick up military craft that have their transponders
off...which is normal operating procedure for military craft...
So the airspace situation was this...you can see this from one of the illustrations I
provided from the DSB prelim report...
You had MH17...you had that other flight coming from the opposite direction [flying
west]...and you had that airplane that overtook the MH17 from behind [they were in a hurry
and were going faster, so when MH17 decided to stay at FL330, they were cleared to climb to
FL350 so they could safely overtake with the necessary vertical separation...]
Those three aircraft were all picked up on the Ukrainian SECONDARY [transponder]
surveillance...as well as the Russians...on both their PRIMARY AND SECONDARY...
But what the Russians picked up were two craft ONLY ON THEIR PRIMARY...those would have
been military aircraft flying with their transponders off [they're allowed to do that and do
that most of the time in fact]...
That's why those two DIDN'T SHOW UP ON THE SECONDARY DATA HANDED OVER TO THE INVESTIGATORS
BY THE UKRAINIANS...
Only primary radar would pick those up...and, very conveniently, the Dnipro primary was
inop at the time...[so the data handed to investigators by the Ukrainians would have no trace
of any military aircraft nearby]...
But with the Russian primary radar data, there is in fact evidence that there were
military aircraft in the air at the time...just that the Dutch investigators simply decided
to exclude the very vital Russian radar data on some stupid technicality...
[Really this is a very poorly done report, both prelim and final, and I've read many over
the years...]
The other thing I should have emphasized more clearly is about that course deviation that
controllers steered MH17 to, just seconds before it was hit...
The known traffic was those three commercial aircraft, as shown on the chart...here it is
again...
Those three commercial flights are clearly labeled...and the big question is... why was
MH17 DIVERTED SOUTH...OFF ITS PLANNED ROUTE...?
We can see the deviation track by the dotted red line...
Clearly there was no 'other traffic' that required MH17 to be vectored south by the
controllers...
In fact we see that there was a FOURTH commercial flight [another B777] that was flying
south exactly to that same waypoint that MH17 was diverted to...we see this airplane is
flying west on the M70 airway and is heading to the RND waypoint...
This does not make sense...why would you divert MH17 from going to TAMAK as flight
planned...in order to go south toward RND where another airplane is heading...
If nothing else this is very bad controller practice right there...yet again, the DSB
[Dutch Safety Board] does not even raise this question...
Like I said, leaving aside any guesswork, these are the simple facts and they raise
serious questions...both about the competence of the Dutch report, and the way the
controllers handled that flight...
Ukrainian think tank Ukrainian Institute of the Future and Ukrainian media outlet Zerkalo
Nedeli (both anti-Russian, but slightly more intellectual than typical Ukrainian outlets)
have contracted a Kharkov-based pollster to conduct a poll among DNR/LNR residents from
October 7 to October 31 (method: face-to-face interviews at the homes of the respondents,
sample size: 806 respondents in DNR and 800 respondents in LNR, margin of error: 3.2%) and
published its results in an article: Тест
на сумісність
[Compatibility Test] (in Ukrainian).
It's a long and rambling article, interspersed with
Ukrainian propagandistic clichés (perhaps to placate Ukrainian nationalists), but the
numbers look solid, so I've extracted the numbers I consider important and put them in a
table format. Here they are:
GENERAL INFORMATION
Gender 46.5% male 53.5% female
Age 8.3% <25 years old 91.7% ≥25 years old
Education 31.5% no vocational training or higher education 45.2% vocational training 23.3% higher education
Religion 57% marry and baptize their children in Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) 31% believe in God, but do not go to any church 12% other churches, other religions, atheists
Political activity 3% are members of parties 97% are not members of parties
Language 90% speak Russian at home 10% speak other languages at home
Nationality 55.4% consider themselves Ukrainians 44.6% do not consider themselves Ukrainians
ECONOMY
Opinion about the labor market 24.3% there are almost no jobs 39.3% high unemployment, but it's possible to find a job 15.7% there are jobs, even if temporary 17.1% key enterprises are working, those who want to work can find a job 2.9% there are not enough employees
Personal financial situation 4.9% are saving on food 36.4% enough money to buy food, but have to save money to buy clothing 43.6% enough money to buy food and clothing, but have to save money to buy a suit, a mobile
phone, or a vacuum cleaner 12% enough money to buy food, clothing, and other goods, but have to save money to buy
expensive goods (e.g. consumer electronics) 2.7% enough money to buy food, clothing, and expensive goods, but have to save money to buy a
car or an apartment 0.4% enough money to buy anything
Personal financial situation compared to the previous year 28.4% worsened 57.3% stayed the same 14.2% improved
Personal financial situation expectations for the next year 21% will worsen 58.6% will stay the same 18.7% will improve
Opinion on the Ukraine's (sans DNR/LNR) economic situation compared to the previous
year 50.3% worsened 41.4% stayed the same 6.3% improved
CITIZENSHIP
Consider themselves citizens of 57.8% the Ukraine 34.8% DNR/LNR 6.8% Russia
Russian citizenship 42.9% never thought about obtaining it 15.5% don't want to obtain it 34.2% would like to obtain it 7.4% already obtained it
Considered leaving DNR/LNR for 5.2% the Ukraine 11.1% Russia 2.9% other country 80.8% never considered leaving
Visits to the Ukraine over the past year 35.1% across the DNR/LNR–Ukraine border (overwhelming majority of them -- 32.2% of all
respondents -- are pensioners who visit the Ukraine to receive their pensions) 2.6% across the Russia–Ukraine border 62.3% have not visited the Ukraine
WAR
Is the war in Donbass an internal Ukrainian conflict? 35.6% completely agree 40.5% tend to agree 14.1% tend to disagree 9.3% completely disagree
Was the war started by Moscow and pro-Russian groups? 3.1% completely agree 6.4% tend to agree 45.1% tend to disagree 44.9% completely disagree
Who must pay to rebuild DNR/LNR? (multiple answers) 63.6% the Ukraine 29.3% Ukrainian oligarchs 18.5% DNR/LNR themselves 17% the U.S. 16.5% the EU 16% Russia 13% all of the above
ZELENSKIY
Opinion about Zelenskiy 1.9% very positive 17.2% positive 49.6% negative 29.3% very negative
Has your opinion about Zelenskiy changed over the past months? 2.7% significantly improved 7.9% somewhat improved 44.8% stayed the same 22.9% somewhat worsened 20.5% significantly worsened
Will Zelenskiy be able to improve the Ukraine's economy? 1.4% highly likely 13.3% likely 55.3% unlikely 30% highly unlikely
Will Zelenskiy be able to bring peace to the region? 1.7% highly likely 12.5% likely 59% unlikely 26.5% highly unlikely
MEDIA
Where do you get your information on politics? (multiple answers) 84.3% TV 60.6% social networks 50.9% relatives, friends 45.9% websites 17.4% co-workers 10% radio 7.4% newspapers and magazines
What social networks do you use? (multiple answers) 70.7% YouTube 61% VK 52.3% Odnoklassniki 49.8% Viber 27.1% Facebook 21.4% Instagram 12.4% Twitter 11.1% Telegram
FUTURE
Desired status of DNR/LNR 5.1% part of the Ukraine 13.4% part of the Ukraine with a special status 16.2% independent state 13.4% part of Russia with a special status 50.9% part of Russia
Desired status of entire Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts 8.4% part of the Ukraine 10.8% part of the Ukraine with a special status 14.4% independent state 13.3% part of Russia with a special status 49.6% part of Russia
Just listening to a bit of the testimony of the ex-ambassador to Ukraine.
It is all BS hearsay!
Also, this lady doesn't seem to grasp that as an employee of the State Department, she
answers to Trump. Trump is her boss.
The questioning is full of leading questions that contains allegations and unproved
premises built into them. I can't imagine that such questioning would be allowed in a normal
court of justice in the USA.
Sure, Trump is a boor. But he is still the boss and he gets to pull out ambassadors if he
wants to.
This is total grandstanding.
Also, a lot of emotional stuff like "I was devastated. I was shocked. Color drained from
my face as I read the telephone transcript . . . "
This is BS!
IIRC the Russian radar showed that the two mystery planes in questions were flying in
MH17's blindspot . That's way too close to be half an hour away. Also, the fact that
the two planes were flying over a war zone with their transponders turned off (which is why
they couldn't be conclusively identified) strongly suggests that they were military.
@ Posted by: ralphieboy | Nov 15 2019 11:24 utc | 71
When the US launched a coup in Kiev, wasn't that a violation of Ukraine's sovereignty
too?
@ Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Nov 15 2019 12:36 utc | 72
You know the real reason why they have yet to deliver the javelins to Ukraine? It's
because they're afraid that they'll be sold on the black market and end up in the ME
somewhere targeting US tanks. That's why.
@ Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 15 2019 13:30 utc | 75
That's quite the dramatic improvement, I must admit.
on Yovanovitch,
She added: "If our chief representative is kneecapped, it limits our effectiveness to
safeguard the vital national security interests of the United States."
She wasn't fired, she was kneecapped, and Ukraine is a US vital national security
interest, especially after it installed a new government with neo-fascism support.. .
.Kneecapping is a form of malicious wounding, often as torture, in which the victim is
injured in the knee
Cheeza decides to launch a personal attack...also completely off topic...
Typical reaction of a zelf-zentered person [sic]...With experts such as you out there,
why would anyone dare apply common sense...an intelligent person would have said...blah
blah blah...
Look man...I'm not going to take up a lot of space on this thread because it's not about
the MAX...
BUT...I need to set the record straight because you are accusing me here of somehow
muddying the waters on the MAX issue...
That is a complete inversion of the truth...I have been very explicit in my [professional]
comments about the MAX...and it is the exact opposite of what you are trying to tar me with
here...
Yes, it is important to understand these things...which is why I have made the effort to
explain the issue more clearly for the layman audience...
Your pathetic attack here shows you have no shame, nor self-respect...
Let's rewind the tape here...I said that Gazprom is looking to cut supplies to Ukraine in
the new 10 year deal that comes up for negotiation in January...and that they are going to be
pumping much less gas through Ukraine because NS2 now allows to bypass Ukraine...
You took a run at this comment, calling it wrong, and putting up a bunch of your own
hypothesizing...
I responded by linking to the
Russian news report quoting officials saying exactly that...that gas to Ukraine will be
greatly reduced...
Instead of responding to that by admitting you were full of shit...you decide to attack me
on the MAX issue...everybody here knows my [professional] position on the MAX...and that I
have said repeatedly THAT IT CANNOT BE FIXED...[which is also why I have offered detailed
technical explanations...]
I'm not going to let you screw with my integrity here...everything you attributed to me
on the MAX is completely FALSE and in fact turning the truth on its head...
As Kiza #55 noted - Nordstream 1 and 2, combined, only equal half of Ukraine's transit
capacity.
The primary impact is that Ukraine can't hold far Western European customer gas hostage
anymore with its gas transit "negotiations" as Nordstream allows Russia to sell directly to
Germany.
There can still be Russian gas sold via Ukraine, but this will be mostly to near-Ukraine
neighbors: Romania, Slovakia, Austria, Czech as well as Ukraine itself.
Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania can transit from Turk Stream, but there are potential Turk (and
Bulgarian) issues.
Poland is already committing to LNG in order to not be dependent on Russian gas transiting
Ukraine - a double whammy.
The ultimate effect is to remove Ukraine's stranglehold position over Russian gas exports,
which in turn severely undercuts Ukraine's ability to both get really cheap Russian gas and
additional transit fees - a major blow to their economy.
Therefore, the continuation of gas transit via Ukraine in volumes greater than the 26 bcm/y
suggested above will depend on the European Commission and European gas importers, and
their insistence that gas transit via Ukraine continues.
Otherwise, gas transit via Ukraine will be reduced to delivering limited volumes for
European storage re-fills in the 'off-peak' summer months...
This prospect will undoubtedly complicate any negotiations between Gazprom and its
Ukrainian counterparty over a new contract to govern the transit of Russian gas via
Ukraine, once the existing contract expires at the end of December 2019.
...Gazprom may be willing to commit to only limited annual transit volumes...
European gas importers don't give a shit about Ukraine...and they have the final
word...they care only about getting the gas they need from Russia in a reliable way and at a
good price...
The news report I linked to makes it perfectly clear that the Europeans are demanding that
the Ukranians get their act together on the gas issue, or they will be dropped
altogether...
You know...FOOL...it really makes me wonder how fools like you decide to make statements
here with a very authoritative tone...when it is quite clear you are talking out your rear
end...
Nobody needs that kind of bullshit here...if you don't know a subject sufficiently well,
then maybe you should keep quiet...or when making a statement, phrase it as your own OPINION
and nothing more...
"... Ukraine cancels arrest warrant against Zlochevsky and closes the case against him. ..."
"... Ukraine's prosecutor closes the case against Burisma after the company agrees to pay UAH 180 millions of tax liabilities. ..."
"... Burisma announces a donation of between $100,000 and 249,999 to the Atlantic Council ..."
"... U.S. supported National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) closes its case against Zlochevsky ..."
"... Joe Biden brags publicly how he blackmailed Poroshenko into firing Shokin. ..."
"... When put this way it is difficult to not ..."
"... Biden son's case is more than demonstrated right now and, in itself, is not even that impressive: it's just bread & butter patronage corruption, which happens all the time in Western Democracies, at all countries, at all levels. What's really impressive here is the scale, because an entire country was destroyed overnight. I mean, if a man as powerful as a vice-POTUS is willing to destroy entire nations just to give his son a sinecure, then no country is safe. ..."
"... A discussion to be followed by prison terms. ..."
"... "Here is to hoping that both sides continue the battle until the whole treasonous house of cards collapses." ..."
"... I agree with previous posters that the real crime was the 2014 coup, and people like Hillary, Victoria Noland and Biden are the greater criminals. But let's not make this a Dem vs Rep thing. Bush and Cheney lied us into a war in Iraq to steal their oil. Both war parties supported Poroshenko and unending anti-Russian invective. It is from that mindset that they argue over whether conditioning military aid to Ukraine constitutes quid pro quo. ..."
"... We've gone through a lot of news sources to see if we couldn't figure out what is going on in Ukraine as to why the Democrats, led by Jewish congressional representatives Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) who leads the impeachment committee, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) who is on the Judiciary Committee, Rep. Elissa Slotkin (D-Mich.), Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (D-Fla.), Eliot Engel (D-New York) along with 21 other Jewish Democratic congressional representatives all calling for the impeachment of President Trump because of his phone call with President Zelensky of Ukraine. ..."
"... As I wrote in April 2015, there are very strong indications that Foreign Affairs Representative for the EU Catherine Ashton, IMF boss Christine Lagarde and Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland provided the united US/EU media front for the Ukraine coup, with Biden, Kerry and John McCain too publicity hungry to remain in the background like they were almost certainly supposed to. https://bryanhemming.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/double-double-toil-and-trouble-the-cauldron-of-kiev/ ..."
"... It is like a virtual country that wants to impose a distorted view of itself. Just imagine for a minute if California became independent and all of the sudden the official language is Spanish, all relations at schools, hospitals, state centers, banks, etc. etc. are to be held in Spanish only. Well, that's happening in that new "liberated" for democracy country, the priceless work of Nulands, Bidens et al, plus all the killing, that goes without saying. ..."
"... when a corrupt system lies to itself about its corruption there is some hope. ..."
"... We desperately need a bringer of light. Could it be Tulsi Gabbard? Perhaps, if she has the guts to turn away from Indian and Israeli nationalism and if the people choose to support her truth telling. It's a long shot, but she might be our last hope. ..."
by then-Vice President Joe Biden against the
then-General Prosecutor of Ukraine, Viktor Shokin. Shokin was investigating Mykola Zlochevsky,
the owner of the gas company Burisma Holdings which paid Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden at least
$50,000 per month for being on its board.
We used
that timeline to show that Biden's intervention reached its height shortly after the
prosecutor confiscated Zlochevsky houses.
A new report by John Solomon, based on released State Department emails,
supports the suspicion that Joe Biden and others intervened against Shokin on behalf of
Burisma and on request of his son:
Hunter Biden and his Ukrainian gas firm colleagues had multiple contacts with the Obama State
Department during the 2016 election cycle, including one just a month before Vice President
Joe Biden forced Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son's company for
corruption, newly released memos show.
During that February 2016 contact, a U.S. representative for Burisma Holdings sought a
meeting with Undersecretary of State Catherine A. Novelli to discuss ending the corruption
allegations against the Ukrainian firm where Hunter Biden worked as a board member, according
to memos obtained under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.
Just three weeks before Burisma's overture to State, Ukrainian authorities raided the home
of the oligarch who owned the gas firm and employed Hunter Biden, a signal the long-running
corruption probe was escalating in the middle of the U.S. presidential election.
Solomon points to the same Interfax-Ukraine report about
the prosecutor's action against Burisma owner Zlochevsky that we have used to make our case
against Biden. Other media have so far
ignored that report and several have falsely claimed that the case against Burisma was
"dormant" when Biden intervened to get the Prosecutor General fired.
Below is an integrated timeline which combines the one
WaPo provided with the new
dates from Solomon's reporting and from additional sources. It is intended as a working
reference that can be updated when new details come to light.
Jul 2010 - Apr 2012 Mykola Zlochevsky heads the Ministry of Ecology and Natural Resources in Ukraine. Several oil and gas
companies owned by Zlochevsky receive lucrative special drilling permits. Feb 23 2014 The U.S.
supported Maidan 'regime change' coup overthrows the elected government of Ukraine. Mar 2014
The EU blocks funds of several Ukrainian oligarchs including Zlochevsky's.
RFERL
Mar 11 2014 Britain blocks the transfer of $23 million owned by Mykola Zlochevsky companies and
opens an investigation against him.
Guardian
Spring 2014 Burisma hires Devon Archer and Hunter Biden as members of its board.
Archer and Biden together own a firm called Rosemont Seneca Partners.
Guardian
May 2014 Rosemont Seneca Partners starts to receive monthly checks of $166,000
from Burisma.
JS
Nov 24 2014 U.S. government organ RFERL publishes a video report showing one of
Zlochevsky's palaces near Kiev. It notes the Hunter Biden connection.
RFERL
Dec 2 2014 Unknown
Ukrainian prosecutor writes letter saying that Zlochevsky is not under suspicion.
Guardian
Late 2014 Zlochevsky is put on Ukraine's most-wanted list for alleged economic
crimes. RFERL
Jan 21 2015 Referring to the
letter by the unknown Ukrainian prosecutor a British court orders the closure of the British
case against Zlochevsky and to release the $23m.
Guardian
Feb 10 2015 Victor Shokin nominated as Prosecutor General of Ukraine
Interfax
Mar 2015 EU
lifts blocking of funds of several Ukrainian oligarchs including Zlochevsky
RFERL
May 27 2015 Hunter Biden meets then-Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken, a former national
security adviser to Joe Biden who was promoted to the No. 2 job at State under then-Secretary
John Kerry.
JS
July 22 2015 Hunter Biden against meets with the State Department No. 2 Tony Blinken.
JS
July 31 2015 Ukraine's prosecutor general issues an arrest warrant against Zlochevsky.
RFERL
Sep 2015
Referring to the closed British case then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt gives a
speech urging Ukrainian prosecutors to do more against corruption.
Guardian
Oct 8 2015 Then-Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs Victoria Nuland
testifies in Congress: "The Prosecutor General's Office has to be reinvented as an institution
that serves the citizens of Ukraine, rather than ripping them off."
WaPo
Oct 17 2015 Shokin announces a joint investigation with Britain of the Zlochevsky
case. Interfax
Dec 7 2015 Joe Biden holds a
press conference in Kiev and announces $190 million to "fight corruption in law enforcement and
reform the justice sector."
WaPo
Dec 7/8 2015 According to his then-National Security Advisor Colin Kahl VP Biden
withholds the announcement of a $1 billion loan guarantee Ukraine was supposed to receive.
WaPo
Dec 8 2015 Joe Biden speaks in the Ukrainian parliament and decried the "cancer of
corruption" in the country. "The Office of the General Prosecutor desperately needs reform," he
noted.
WaPo
End of 2015 Shokin hands one case on Zlochevsky to the U.S. supported National
Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) Interfax
Jan 20 2016 Biden meets
Poroshenko in Davos, Switzerland, when he also presses "the need to continue to move forward on
Ukraine's anti-corruption agenda," according to a White House statement. Kahl said Biden at
that meeting reinforced the linkage between the loan guarantee and the necessary reforms.
WaPo
Feb 2 2016 Shokin confiscates several large properties and a Rolls-Royce Phantom owned
by Zlochevsky. Interfax
Feb 4 2016 First public
announcement of the confiscation of Zlochevsky's properties.
Interfax
Feb 4 2016 Hunter Biden
starts following Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken on Twitter.
JS
Feb 12 2016 Biden speaks to Poroshenko by phone. "The two leaders agreed on the
importance of unity among Ukrainian political forces to quickly pass reforms in line with the
commitments in its IMF program, including measures focused on rooting out corruption," the
White House said.
WaPo
Feb 16 2016 Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko says that he had advised Shokin to
step down. Interfax
Feb 16 2016 Poroshenko
announced he had asked Shokin to resign.
WaPo
Feb 18 2016 Another call
takes place between Biden and Poroshenko.
WaPo
Feb 19 2016 The presidential press secretary Sviatoslav Tseholko says that Shokin's
letter of resignation had arrived at the presidential administration. On the same day,
Poroshenko tables a motion in parliament to dismiss Shokin.
Interfax
Feb 19 2016 Poroshenko
announces he has received Shokin's resignation letter. It still required parliamentary
approval, and Shokin did not go away quietly.
WaPo
Feb 19 2016 Biden speaks separately with Poroshenko and Prime Minister Arseniy
Yatsenyuk.
WaPo
Feb 22/23 2016 Karen Tramontano of Blue Star Strategies, a U.S. representative for
Burisma Holdings, seeks a meeting with then-Undersecretary of State Catherine A. Novelli who
oversees international energy issues to discuss ending the corruption allegations against
Burisma.
JS
Feb 24 2016 A State Department email exchange under the subject line "Burisma" notes
that Karen Tramontano especially mentioned Hunter Biden while she tried to get the meeting.
JS
Mar 1 2016 Tramontano is scheduled to meet Novelli and that State Department officials
are scrambling to get answers ahead of time from the U.S. embassy in Kiev.
JS
Mar 2 2016 Hunter Biden's fellow board member at Burisma, Devon Archer, has a meeting
with Secretary of State John Kerry. Secretary Kerry's stepson, Christopher Heinz, had earlier
been a business partner with both Archer and Hunter Biden at the Rosemont Seneca investment
firm.
JS
Mar 16 2016 Reports emerged
that Shokin was back at work after having been on vacation.
WaPo
Mar 22 2016 Biden and Poroshenko speak again by phone.
WaPo
Mar 29 2016 The Ukrainian parliament, in a 289-to-6 vote, approves Shokin's dismissal.
WaPo
undated "Mr. Zlochevsky's allies were relieved by the dismissal of Mr. Shokin, the
prosecutor whose ouster Mr. Biden had sought, according to people familiar with the situation."
NYT
Mar 31 2016
Poroshenko meets with Biden during a trip to Washington, and Biden emphasizes that the loan
guarantee was contingent on further reform progress beyond Shokin's removal.
WaPo
Apr 14 2016 Biden and Poroshenko have another call. Biden congratulates the president
on his new cabinet and "stressed the urgency of putting in place a new Prosecutor General.
WaPo
May 12 2016 Poroshenko nominated Yuriy Lutsenko as the new prosecutor general.
WaPo
May 13 2016 In a phone call, Biden told Poroshenko he welcomed Lutsenko's appointment.
WaPo
Undated "Mr. Zlochevsky's representatives were pleased by the choice, concluding they
could work with Mr. Lutsenko to resolve the oligarch's legal issues, according to the people
familiar with the situation."
NYT
Jun 2016
Hunter Biden joins Zlochevsky at a Burisma organized event in Morocco.
Guardian
Aug 22 2016 Joe Biden tells the Atlantic how he blackmailed Poroshenko into
firing the "corrupt" Shokin.
Atlantic
Sep 2016Ukraine cancels arrest warrant against Zlochevsky and closes the case against him.Guardian
Jan 12 2017Ukraine's prosecutor closes the case against Burisma after the company
agrees to pay UAH 180 millions of tax liabilities.
Interfax
Jan 19 2017Burisma
announces a donation of between $100,000 and 249,999 to the Atlantic CouncilGuardian
Aug 2017U.S. supported National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) closes
its case against ZlochevskyInterfax
Oct 27 2017 Zlochevsky is estimated to have $535 million in assets, more than double than a year earlier.
Interfax
Jan 23 2018Joe Biden brags publicly how he blackmailed Poroshenko into firing Shokin.CFR
Feb 1 2018 After more than three years abroad Zlochevsky returns to Ukraine.
Interfax
May 14 2019 Ukrainian
Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko says that the Zlochevsky case was reopened "several months
ago". Interfax
Jul 2019 Shokin maintains
his suspicions about the vice president's motives, accusing Biden of promoting his dismissal
for personal reasons. He insists he had "no doubt" Biden wanted him gone in an effort to
protect his son's new employer.
ABCNews
Posted by b on November 5, 2019 at 20:13 UTC |
Permalink
Considering the deep peril the legitimacy of the Outlaw US Empire's electoral system enjoys
as Elizabeth Vos
reports, why put forth the effort to prize then reveal the truth of Ukrainegate or
Russiagate.
The DNC will forward whomever it chooses to face Trump in 2020 -- the court
determined that whomever the people choose through the primary and convention exercises
doesn't matter as DNC can legally negate that choice.
Now I don't mean to belittle the
great amount of effort b's done on those issues, but IMO the message within Vos's essay is
what must be addressed.
When put this way it is difficult to not see the corruption. How is Trump asking
Ukraine's new president to investigate this obvious corruption more of a crime than the
corruption that Trump is asking to be investigated? That will take some mental gymnastics for
the establishment's spinmeisters to explain.
Totally agree, but want to add one more important point: How is Trump's melding his
legitimate and personal interests together in a phone call also more serious than the
original war crime of overthrowing the legal Ukrainian government in an armed coup? Biden's
corruption is obvious upon logical review of the known facts, but along with ignoring this,
the US elites also completely ignore the serious crime of otherthrowing a government
(because, such things are not discussed in polite company, one supposes).
William Gruff | Nov 5 2019 20:45 utc | 2. Says "How is Trump asking Ukraine's new president
to investigate this obvious corruption more of a crime than the crime itself?"
No problem for the TDS afflicted sheeple. Not much different than the position of the
sheeple that the exposure of DNC machinations is the crime rather than the crimes of DNC
themselves.
thanks b... as far as crimes go, biden corrupt is small potatoes and ditto trumps.. the big
enchilada is the dynamic leading up to the coup of feb 23 2014.... that is what needs to be
examined and of course it won't be, as that would highlight just how corrupt the whole usa
system is here... that said, i agree with @1 karolf1 and @ 2 william gruffs comments.. in the
greater scheme of things though - meddling in a foreign country, whether it be an election or
outright war and everything in between is what the usa has excelled at for as long as i can
remember - 60's forward... they are one bullshite country with a bullshite msm completing the
propaganda loop that is on display 24/7... i am not sure what it takes to break it.. your
work certainly helps!
Biden son's case is more than demonstrated right now and, in itself, is not even that
impressive: it's just bread & butter patronage corruption, which happens all the time in
Western Democracies, at all countries, at all levels.
What's really impressive here is the scale, because an entire country was destroyed
overnight. I mean, if a man as powerful as a vice-POTUS is willing to destroy entire nations
just to give his son a sinecure, then no country is safe.
My thinking on the matter is that the Washington establishment is panicking over this
relatively small issue because, like pulling a loose end of yarn on a sweater, they fear the
whole cover story on the Ukraine covert actions will unravel if the Biden corruption
investigation continues.
The obvious explanation, for the way that the democrats have used all their energies to
ensure that the entirety of this sordid scandal is made known to the world is that the John
Birch Society entrists, such as the Clintons, are about ready to withdraw from the Democrats
altogether and so, like good arsonists, they have poured flammable, explosive material
everywhere, confident that a spark will ignite it.
In any case arguing that 'black is white' and 'up is down' is easy compared to convincing the
world that Biden, his son, Kerry and all are not totally corrupt.
According to Wikipedia, Vitaly Yarema was the Ukrainian Prosecutor
General from 19 June 2014 to 10 February 2015. He was nominated to the position by President
Petro Poroshenko.
A list of Prosecutor General title-holders is here at
this link if you need to refer to it. The odd thing though is that while Yarema was Prosecutor General, he was all very much for
bring Mykola Zlochevsky to justice in the London court (depending on who you
read , of course).
The U.K. asked Ukraine to investigate whether Burisma's founder had benefited from criminal
dealings with Sergei Kurchenko, a shadowy billionaire who acted as the alleged frontman for
the money of Viktor Yanukovych and his older son, Oleksander Yanukovych. Prosecutor General
Vityaly Yarema ordered Zlochevsky brought to court, which put him on what Ukrainians call
their "wanted list."
According to that Daily Beast source, Zlochevsky was on the "wanted list" in January
2015.
On reading that Guardian article which you cite, the thought occurred to me that
someone other than Yarema must have written and signed that letter sent from the
Prosecutor General's office to the UK court, which then ordered the case against Zlochevsky
to be dropped. That in itself would be worth an article, as the timeline seems to be a bit
confused: did Zlochevsky go on the "wanted list" before the letter was sent to the UK and the
money released or did he go on the "wanted list" AFTER the UK court dropped the case against
him and ordered the release of the $23 million?
I agree about the Voss article, but there is nothing new in it is there? The DNC 'defence'
has been in the public domain ever since it was first annunciated. As to the absolute scandal
of the disenfranchiement of 100,000 Democrats in Bernie's hometown, it was obvious on the
night that it was this which allowed HC to steal the New York Primary.
The problem was that the Sanders campaign seems to have done nothing about it- it is hard to
believe that, back in 2016, they were thinking of 2020 and running Sanders again.
Were not the White primaries, a DNC favourite at the time, banned on just these grounds that
public money and resources could not be used to disenfranchise large numbers of people?
You are right that the story, which reminds us that it was the democrats who invented dirty
tricks and the NY Democrats, who used to meet at Tammany Hall, were on the cutting edge of
electoral corruption, is one that cannot be too widely discussed. A discussion to be followed
by prison terms.
Once again this Ukraine story shows that its not the government, its not the structure of the
government, its not even the functions of the government, but instead its is the actors
that run the government and the actors that benefit from the government being run by the
actors-in-charge that make a strong case that an independent non governmental auditor is
needed (one paid from a % of the taxes collected but one that answers only to the HR courts).
So the government would not pay the auditors any salaries since the auditors are the
governed. In other words, any qualified voter would be an eligible Auditor. Such people
(auditors) would have the right to audit the-conduct of any person claiming or benefiting
from a government interest.
The independent HR court would hear all charges made by any HR auditor. All persons claiming
or benefiting in some way from a government interest would be subject to the jurisdiction of
the HR courts. The HR court would be empowered to hear a claim of wrongful behavior made
against any government person (elected, appointed, bureaucrats, military and contractors) and
if the court agrees substantive facts exist, then the court would assemble a case, impanel a
jury (from the ranks of the governed) and instruct that jury to hear the charges and to
develop the case, and to decide on the innocence or guilt of the person charged, and if
guilty then to decide on the penalty.
Important here is that the HR rights courts would hear cases against individuals that involve
corruption, fraud, theft, self dealing, negligence and treason.. the HR rights courts are not
government, they are courts made up of judges and juries that are appointed by the governed
people.
Thanks for your reply! Did you note the number of people who committed multiple felonies
that have yet to be prosecuted years now after-the-fact? The lack of justice being applied to
those who broke the law and violated the public trust is also a big issue itself that I
mentioned on the week in review. The bottom line: No democracy + no justice = no legitimacy,
which appears to be the main point. I just finished listening to
this interview with Dr. Hudson where in the last few minutes he says the DNC in 2020 aims
at electing Donald Trump, which seems to be the consensus arrived at by us barflies and with
which I agree. What Hudson doesn't touch on, nor is he asked, is what can be done to overturn
the Reagan Revolution which installed the current policy direction, although we can make a
few assumptions based on his preferences for Sanders and Gabbard and the movement to deal
with student debt relief.
My comment to the article wasn't optimistic and has yet to be posted. I don't really have
anything of substance to add to what b's proving about Biden as I've already called him out
for his Capital Crimes and the usual corruption. Maybe I ought to throw up my arms in disgust
and adopt a Don't Worry; Be Happy/What, Me Worry? escapist attitude and ignore it all for my
remaining days and party like it's 1999. Too bad Styx didn't offer a solution to having Too
Much Time on My Hands aside for that being a calamity for my sanity.
General-Prosecutor Victor Shokin was being pressured -- mostly by the USA -- to prosecute
corruption more effectively.
In response to such pressure, Shokin initiated an investigation of Mykola Zlochevsky on
October 17, 2015. It seems that Britain had established an investigation of Zlochevsky in
2014, had suspended that investigation on January 21, 2015, but then resumed that
investigation in October 2015. Shokin joined that British investigation on October 17,
2015.
It seems further that the USA eventually took unknown actions to prevent that joint
British-Ukrainian investigation of Zlochevsky.
On December 7-8, 2015, Vice President Biden indicated that a large US grant of aid money
would be conditional. However, the conditions seem to be secret.
In this situation, before the end of December 2015, General-Prosecutor Shokin transfered
the Zlochevsky investigation to the so-called National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine
(NABU), which essentially was a creature of the US Government.
The situation seemed to remain quiet through the month of January 2016. On February 2,
however, Shokin seized some of Zlochevsky's property, even though the NABU was supposed to be
managing the Zlochevsky case.
Sholin's seizure of Zlochevsky's property on February 2 sparked a US-Ukraine crisis. The
US (i.e. the Bidens) felt it had been double-crossed by Shokin.
Although the property seizure occurred on February 2, it was not announced publicly until
February 4. On that same day, Hunter Biden began following the Twitter account of US Deputy
Secretary of State Tony Blinken, who managed Ukrainian affairs. (I wonder if Blinken
communicated in code to Hunter Biden by means of Twitter.)
On February 12, Vice President Joe Biden talked with Ukrainian President Poroshenko by
telephone and ordered the firing of Shokin. The firing essentially happened later that same
day.
Joe Biden's story about waiting for an airplane due to take off in six hours might be
false or might refer to an airplane taking off in some country other than Ukraine.
Several (numerous?) topics so qualify. Either they're scarcely hinted at, or the lies and
misdirections prevail. Applause for anyone brave enough to name the first three forbidden
items that come to mind.
Are vlochevsky, kolomoisky, and pinchbuk partners in crime?
$1.8 billion in imf loans "disappeared" in koilomoiski's
privat bank. After that privat bank was nationalized and kolomoiski
fled to the us. Was this how vlochevsky's asets doubled? Coincidentally
the chinese firm investment in rosemont seneca was over $1 billion. Some
have speculated that the bidens could have become billionaires from this.
Was the chinese firm a pass through for the embezzled $1.8 billion imf loan?
Come on' folks, there are no Dems, there are no Repubs, there are no Independants ,only reps
who take the $ offered by the wealthy. In the U$A today, the party of $ owns the system. Case
closed. We get who they want. The rules have been changed to favor them. Vote if you want,
it's good therapy,but, the system is rigged.
The latest report from journalist John Solomon reveals that the Obama State Department saw
Joe and Hunter Biden's brewing Burisma scandal as a "Biden problem" during the 2016 US
election, and specificialy coached now-recalled US Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch on how
to answer awkward questions about it. [.]
Memos newly released through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the
Southeastern Legal Foundation on my behalf detail how State officials in June 2016 worked
to prepare the new U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch, to handle a question
about "Burisma and Hunter Biden."
In multiple drafts of a question-and-answer memo prepared for Yovanovitch's Senate
confirmation hearing, the department's Ukraine experts urged the incoming ambassador to
stick to a simple answer.
"Do you have any comment on Hunter Biden, the Vice President's son, serving on the board
of Burisma, a major Ukrainian Gas Company?," the draft Q&A asked.
The recommended answer for Yovanovitch: "For questions on Hunter Biden's role in Burisma, I
would refer you to Vice President Biden's office."[.]
The Media has created a story whose purpose it is to keep the public focused on some small
details of goings-on in Ukraine mostly since 2014 and NOT the fact that this is a clear
example of a US backed coup which destabilized the country enough to allow the US Corporate
jackals in to strip off the booty. THAT is what all the participants in this scheme want to
keep secret. Why? Because the American citizens benefit not one bit from any of this. Change
will require something major to trigger it.
I agree with previous posters that the real crime was the 2014 coup, and people like Hillary,
Victoria Noland and Biden are the greater criminals. But let's not make this a Dem vs Rep
thing. Bush and Cheney lied us into a war in Iraq to steal their oil. Both war parties
supported Poroshenko and unending anti-Russian invective. It is from that mindset that they
argue over whether conditioning military aid to Ukraine constitutes quid pro quo.
In the meantime I wonder if Zelensky, who was elected over Porky with an end the war
platform, is thinking "Why do these idiots think they can negotiate by offering me something
I absolutely do not want?"
"Remember when voters in 2016 were like 'can we please have even one major candidate who
doesn't have something seriously wrong with them?', and the entire US political system was
all 'LOL nope,' and then nobody burned that system to the ground and flushed it down the
toilet? Good times."
Except IMO there were thousands of people willing and ready to burn down the system just
as there are now--that's what ought to happen to things that are corrupt: they get exposed as
illegitimate and get torched by the public is a fit of righteous outrage and exact justice
collectively.
But that didn't happen within the Outlaw US Empire in 2016, nor did it happen when Obama
backstabbed millions, broke the law he was supposed to enforce and gave billions to
fraudulent banksters. Most all political riots--not police riots--during my life were against
racism and its associated injustices long ongoing. Within the Outlaw US Empire historically,
corruption in politics is as traditional as apple pie, meaning the people are mostly inured
to its occurrence. As with customary bribery in some nations, political corruption is seen as
a normal happening usually of little consequence until something morally repulsive occurs to
raise awareness again. The problem of course is that corruption is always morally
repulsive. Perhaps such leniency says more about a nation's public than anything else--tons
of corruption's tolerated just as the killing of millions of innocents overseas is
tolerated/abided/excused. Guess it's time for some Victory Gin as there's not much more to
say.
I think you've left out the Vietnam era, karlof1 - there were certainly riots against that
war plus there was l968 in Chicago Democratic Convention. I'd call both of those political.
And I would call the Occupy movement at least anti-political in its focus on the banksters.
Plus protests against the invasion of Iraq. Those two latter 'thrusts' by the citizenry were
indeed handled oppressively and not covered adequately or at all in the case of protests
against the invasion and/or other political events. Just because they weren't covered doesn't
mean they didn't happen or weren't part of the general malaise. Trump got elected on that
premise. And just because you don't see it on TV doesn't mean the general public isn't
totally unhappy with the way things are.
Since the beginning of the conflict in eastern Ukraine, the international energy group
Burisma has been providing systematic and comprehensive assistance to the defenders of the
Fatherland. Among the military, whom the Burisma Group has supported since 2014, is the Poltava
Special Purpose Police Battalion, which has repeatedly served in the war zone in the
Donbass. from one of their press releases -
being the good nazis biden requested of them..
AFAIK, Burisma supported regaining Donbas because that's where the fracking opportunity
is.
Who else was an ardent supporter of regaining the Donbas? Kolomoyskyi, who is also
militantly pro-Israel, and is rumored to be the real owner (or part owner?) of
Burisma.
Biden is also a Zionist
and what his son made is peanuts compared to what Biden has/could make if he plays along.
Obama is said to have made $70 million after leaving the Presidency and has just bought a $15
million home. And where else is a fracking opportunity sought by a corrupt company that is connected to
corrupt politicians? Golan Heights and Genie Energy..
I liked Dr. Hudson's remarks concerning that DNC's quest for a candidate most sure to lose
to Trump. This of course accounts for their hysterical fear of Tulsi Gabbard, as she is the
only one who would be certain to beat him! The DNC will probably be willing, this time
around, to let Bernie sheepdog on into the general election if that's what it takes to stop
Tulsi. It's very sad to see the would be left media falling in line with the
Jacobin/Intercept/Omidyar psyops regime. The one slim hope is that actual voters not
controlled by any of the usual gatekeepers might overwhelm the DNC rigging machine in early
primaries. I'm encouraged whenever I'm out on the real street I frequently overhear people
mentioning her name and passersby chime in. Don't hear a thing about any of the mediocrities
supported by the DNC and the press.
From the Chris Hedges article you linked to: "The deep state committed the greatest
strategic blunder in American history when it invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq."
The sentence quoted is an example of the murky self-assured but dubious 'wordscape' that
we are so inundated by. This is not to imply that the author doesn't make many sensible
points in this particular article, or to dismiss his work more generally. In my opinion he
does lots of good work.
Note the use of the cryptic abstraction "deep state" to describe the 'perpetrator' of the
'invasions and occupations'.
Note the use of the abstract term "greatest" to describe the "strategic blunder". One can
declare without deserving even a raised eyebrow 'that was the greatest day of my life!' or
that was greatest number of apples I've ever eaten at one sitting, but never again!" But how
does one calibrate those two wars of aggression as the "greatest" whatever?
Note that these particlular wars of aggression, the supreme crime, and both not
coincidentally based on lies upon lies, have been verbally downgraded to "invasions". As in,
say, the Normandy invasion, or an invasion of grasshoppers? And all the horrors that followed
the wars of aggression are condensed by the summary word "occupation". Many of us have
occupations.
And for who were these "strategic blunders?" From the perspective of the MIC, and PNAC,
and 'strategic positioning' re Earthly heroin flows, say, perhaps these were "strategic
blessings". Or even diabolically cunning?
The point I'm making here is that even in the 'good articles', even in 'noble efforts' its
pretty hard not to slip into, what? Let's call it, Empire Speak. Or is that Swamp Speak?
@ Robert Snefjella with the analysis of the wording of the Chris Hedges article that ben
linked to
Nice work but I want to add that the real reason for going after Iraq and Afghanistan was
because they were not yet owned and subservient to the Western private banking cult.
Like Libya before Hillary "We came, we saw, he died" Clinton served her masters.
@ 42 Rboert
Personally, I don't care to dissect Hedges word choices. Those invasion were the greatest
mistake, because they broke the US public image, its military, and its economy. No, not
directly, but those overextensions were the watershed moments. While it has been quite
lucrative for certain parties since then, it has been a huge quagmire and literal sand in the
military's gears. It also destroyed the invincible image of the US military. Trillions of
dollars, thousands of troops, millions of civilians and yet we are all negotiating to stay in
Afghanistan against troops with tire scandals, no air force, and very limited mechanization.
@ 43 psycho I agree that the banking, and gold in particular, were reason for destroying
the countries. Along with human trafficking, Sumerian artifacts, takfiri recruitment,
etc.
Exactly, JR. The very limited amount of reporting on that quickly led to Jewish oligarchs
and that has been studiously ignored since. Since then it has been an endless shit show of
Biden's corruption and how the US foreign policy is handled with everyone trying to thinly
slice the corruption of DC so as to only smear the other side.
There are some
sites that think about these things.
We've gone through a lot of news sources to see if we couldn't figure out what is going on
in Ukraine as to why the Democrats, led by Jewish congressional representatives Adam Schiff
(D-Calif.) who leads the impeachment committee, Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) who is on the
Judiciary Committee, Rep. Elissa Slotkin (D-Mich.), Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (D-Fla.), Eliot
Engel (D-New York) along with 21 other Jewish Democratic congressional representatives all
calling for the impeachment of President Trump because of his phone call with President
Zelensky of Ukraine.
This site seems devoted to looking for links of this nature, but is often sketchy IMO. Where is O when you need an obsessive analysis.
So if the Biden's and Rosemont Seneca were in Ukraine stealing IMF funds,
what were they stealing in China?
Do they have no shame? Or is that Whitey Bulger's clan ethics at play.
Is all currency ok as long as its stolen?
How much bitcoin can they steal and convert or is that story yet to be told?
That is the oldest trick in the book: owning a company as a subsidiary of another company
that you own. The wonder is that Kolomoisky didn't insert another layer of another subsidiary
between Privat Group and Burisma Holdings to cover his tracks even more.
The largest private gas producer in Ukraine is establishing relations with the new US
administration.
The Atlantic Council and the Burisma Group, Ukraine's largest independent gas producer,
have signed a partnership agreement. The Atlantic Council, with the support of Burisma,
will develop transatlantic relations programs with a focus on energy security in Europe and
the world, the company said in an official press release.
For the Burisma Group, this is a new stage in the development of cooperation between the
United States and European countries together with such an influential world institution as
the Atlantic Council.
Relations with Ukraine and future programs with the Burisma Group will be overseen by an
authoritative diplomat, US Ambassador to Ukraine (2003-2006) and Director of the Dinu
Patriciu Eurasia Center (structure under the Atlantic Council) John Herbst.
"Support and cooperation with Burisma will allow us to expand our program development
activities in Ukraine and create new platforms for discussing important and relevant
issues," said John Herbst.
It is symbolic that the collaboration between the Atlantic Council and the Burisma Group
coincided with the launch of the new US Presidential Administration Donald Trump. According
to experts, this will allow for more efficient implementation of new joint projects in the
energy sector and gain support from one of the most respected and influential organizations
in the United States. The conclusion of an agreement between Burisma and the Atlantic
Council and the full implementation of joint projects became possible after all charges
against Burisma Group and its owner Nikolai Zlochevsky were dropped.
According to Mykola Zlochevsky, president of the Burisma Group, the Atlantic Council
plays a key role in Ukraine in building transatlantic relations, democracy and energy
security. "Ambassador Herbst has been and continues to be the lawyer of Ukraine, and
Burisma is pleased to be able to support the work of the ambassador and the Atlantic
Council," said Nikolai Zlochevsky.
The Atlantic Council (US Atlantic Council) is the largest American non-governmental
analytical center for international relations of the Atlantic community, headquartered in
Washington. It is one of the most influential non-governmental organizations in the United
States, operates ten regional centers and functional programs that deal with issues of
international security and global economic development.
The Atlantic Council and Burisma Holdings working together!
As I wrote in April 2015, there are very strong indications that Foreign Affairs
Representative for the EU Catherine Ashton, IMF boss Christine Lagarde and Assistant
Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nuland provided the united
US/EU media front for the Ukraine coup, with Biden, Kerry and John McCain too publicity
hungry to remain in the background like they were almost certainly supposed to.
https://bryanhemming.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/double-double-toil-and-trouble-the-cauldron-of-kiev/
Thank you for that link. Rolling up the naked capitalism story is
this rather more profound analysis from the Saker. It is also linked to in the abel
danger site I referenced earlier.
Something that really shocks me about Ukraine is like the video about the kitsch palace of
the Zlochevsky guy, the neighbors on the other side of the river complain about not being
able to swim across anymore, as they used to do, but the whole interview is in
Russian¡¡¡¡, I mean, it is supossed to be Kiev, not the east and
everybody speaks in a language that does not have official status anymore.
It is like a
virtual country that wants to impose a distorted view of itself. Just imagine for a minute if
California became independent and all of the sudden the official language is Spanish, all
relations at schools, hospitals, state centers, banks, etc. etc. are to be held in Spanish
only. Well, that's happening in that new "liberated" for democracy country, the priceless
work of Nulands, Bidens et al, plus all the killing, that goes without saying.
The same case happens in the UK (with Corbyn). They want the policies, but they don't want
"socialism".
This is the great contradiction of the USA and other First World countries: they know they
need to reform, but they don't want to give up the good things that capitalist imperialism
gave them. Therefore, they want the best of both worlds.
Great, true comment, vk. The people of America are willing participants in the American
Dream, aka The American Death Cult. Let's give the American People full credit for the horror
show they've inflicted on the world. They willfully chose this and continue to choose this
and that is why they embrace horrific figures like Trump, Hillary, Biden, etc..
But the American People do have a better angel. They also want community. They want to see
themselves as individually and collectively good. They want to believe that they are on the
light side of the Force, not the dark side of the Force, so to speak. How it plays out is
that they want the elites to tell them lies, sweet little lies...
For me the turning point of America, at least of the America that I've seen, was the Iraq
War. The Libya War can be seen as a second stage of that war; same with the Syria War. It's
not that such acts of global mayhem have been worse than what America has done before. It's
that the American System has embraced the evil more knowingly than ever before, it seems to
me. No one can credibly claim that they didn't see the US knowingly lie its way into war vs.
Iraq. No one can credibly call that a just war.
when a corrupt system lies to itself about its corruption there is some hope. When it
knows it is corrupt and embraces this anyway then there is no hope. The Ukraine controversey
we are seeing play its way out now typifies and illustrates this state of affairs. What Trump
did was brutal and corrupt, yet his fans continue to defend him and even to defend this. What
Biden did was far far more brutal and corrupt, yet the Dems continue to defend him and what
he did. Biden helped plunge a country into chaos and then feasted on the corpse. The Ukraine
controversey is a journey into the heart of our darkness.
We desperately need a bringer of light. Could it be Tulsi Gabbard? Perhaps, if she has the
guts to turn away from Indian and Israeli nationalism and if the people choose to support her
truth telling. It's a long shot, but she might be our last hope.
As for Biden? Well I suppose he's a placeholder for Hillary Clinton.
The USA is a capitalist society. However, as Marx demonstrated in his opus, the
development of capitalism tends to socialism. Socialism cannot be born out of
manorialism or antiquity, but only from capitalism.
The American elite knows this, so they came up with a very interesting strategy: they keep
the rest of the world down, in a permanent state of destruction and rebuild (groundhog day
mode); and, at home, they try to preserve a minimum of industrial dynamism and life quality
for their masses with "domesticated and restricted socialism". FDR did it during 1938-1944
and it worked; after the end of Bretton Woods and the establishment of the Dollar Standard,
they adopted restricted socialism in a specific sector -- the Military -- in order to
maintain its industrial and innovation capacity going in face of its inexorable tendency of
"financialization".
Although the Pentagon by itself is socialist, the USA remains capitalist because of the
way the Pentagon relates to the rest of the nation: it takes the infinite pool of taxpayer
money (so the profit motivation is removed) but they give it back to private contractors, who
are capitalist and thus have the profit motivation. Taxpayer money is then converted into
money-capital through a socialist institution.
However, this comes at a price for the capitalists: as profits go down over time (as Marx
also scientifically demonstrated), the share of the Pentagon on the overall American economy
rises, thus rising the "socialist piece of the pie". Heterodox estimates put the Pentagon
social architecture at 10% of the American economy; most still put it at around 5%, and some
of then put it at an insignificant 3%. If think that, if you take out the ficitious part of
the capitalist economy (i.e. Wall St.), the figures are much closer to the 10%, probably even
more.
@56 -- "... it [Pentagon] takes the infinite pool of taxpayer money (so the profit motivation
is removed) but they give it back to private contractors, who are capitalist and thus have
the profit motivation. Taxpayer money is then converted into money-capital through a
socialist institution."
State-base 'capitalism' just like China!
The only additional point is that a sizable % of the socialist $$$'s (more Fed than
taxpayer these days) also flow from said funds into lobbying and then into the pockets of the
politician du jour. The corrupt Clinton's were not the exception -- rather the rule. Was this
systemic corruption not referred to previously as the military-industrial-congressional
complex?
No, it would be China if the contractors themselves were owned by the Government.
China is pretty much the polar opposite of the USA: it has a socialist system with some
restricted pockets of capitalism. Capitalism there is restricted to the special economic
zones, and private enterprise is restricted to non-strategic sectors.
That's why China's tax rates are actually lowering, not rising.
@2 If you recall the media explained that Joe Biden's corruption is really Joe Biden fighting
corruption. They create their own reality. We are just supposed to swallow it. The CFR video
doesn't matter. Just like Victoria Nuland's call. Snowden's revelations, or the volumes of
wikileaks documents proving the enormity of US self described "elite" corruption
I'd written a long detailed reply that I was about to post when my computer locked-up and
I lost my entire effort, and that ended my contributions yesterday. Of the many observations
I made, this IMO was the most important--When MLK was murdered, blacks nationwide rioted; but
when JFK and RFK were murdered, nothing of the sort occurred. I'll also reinforce the notion
of people rioting as the vast majority of what's deemed a riot by Media was in fact a Police
Riot as they run amok amidst peaceful protesters just as they would do against striking
workers, of which there's a long bloody history of massacres.
"... Sperry quotes Fred Fleitz, a former National Security Council official, thus: "Everyone knows who he is. CNN knows. The Washington Post knows. The New York Times knows. Congress knows. The White house knows . They're hiding him because of his political bias." ..."
"... why have the corporate media declined to name him? There can be but one answer to this question: If Ciaramella's identity were publicized and his professional record exposed, the Ukrainegate narrative would instantly collapse into a second-rate vaudeville act -- farce by any other name, although "hoax" might do, even if Trump has made the term his own. ..."
"... There is another half to this burlesque. While Schiff and his House colleagues chicken-scratch for something, anything that may justify a formal impeachment, a clear, documented record emerges of Joe Biden's official interventions in Ukraine in behalf of Burisma Holdings, the gas company that named Hunter Biden to its board in March 2014 -- a month, it is worth noting, after the U.S.–cultivated coup in Kiev. ..."
Ten days ago
Real Clear Investigations suggested that the "whistleblower" whose "complaint" last August set the impeachment probe in
motion was in all likelihood a CIA agent named Eric Ciaramella. And who is Eric Ciaramella? It turns out he is a young but seasoned
Democratic Party apparatchik conducting his spookery on American soil.
Ciaramella has previously worked with Joe Biden during the latter's days as veep; with Susan Rice, Obama's recklessly hawkish
national security adviser; with John Brennan, a key architect of the Russiagate edifice; as well as with Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-born
Democratic National Committee official charged during the 2016 campaign season with digging up dirt on none other than candidate
Donald Trump.
For good measure, Paul Sperry's perspicacious reporting in Real Clear Investigations reveals that Ciaramella conferred
with the staff of Rep. Adam Schiff, the House Democrat leading the impeachment process, a month prior to filing his "complaint" to
the CIA's inspector general.
This information comes after Schiff stated on the record that the staff of the House Intelligence Committee, which he heads, had
no contact with the whistleblower. Schiff has since acknowledged the Ciaramella connection.
Phantom in Plain Sight
No wonder no one in Washington will name this phantom in plain sight. The impeachment probe starts to take on a certain reek.
It starts to look as if contempt for Trump takes precedence over democratic process -- a dangerous priority. Sperry quotes Fred
Fleitz, a former National Security Council official, thus: "Everyone knows who he is. CNN knows. The Washington Post knows.
The New York Times knows. Congress knows. The White house knows . They're hiding him because of his political bias."
Here we come to another question. If everyone knows the whistleblower's identity, why have the corporate media declined to
name him? There can be but one answer to this question: If Ciaramella's identity were publicized and his professional record exposed,
the Ukrainegate narrative would instantly collapse into a second-rate vaudeville act -- farce by any other name, although "hoax"
might do, even if Trump has made the term his own.
There is another half to this burlesque. While Schiff and his House colleagues chicken-scratch for something, anything that
may justify a formal impeachment, a clear, documented record emerges of Joe Biden's official interventions in Ukraine in behalf of
Burisma Holdings, the gas company that named Hunter Biden to its board in March 2014 -- a month, it is worth noting, after the U.S.–cultivated
coup in Kiev.
There is no thought of scrutinizing Biden's activities by way of an official inquiry. In its way, this, too, reflects upon the
pantomime of the impeachment probe. Are there sufficient grounds to open an investigation? Emphatically there are. Two reports published
last week make this plain by any reasonable measure.
"... Igor Kolomoisky and Gennady Bogolyubov, former owners of Ukraine's largest bank, loaned themselves $470B through their shell companies. ..."
"... The US media should be covering this historic scandal because the Jewish oligarchs used the bank deposits of Ukrainian citizens to acquire property all over the US through shell companies ... ..."
"... The Chairwoman of Ukraine's Central Bank says Igor Kolomoisky and Gennady Bogolyubov stole $5.5B outright, which is 5% of Ukraine's GDP and 33% of the entire country's bank deposits. Most of this money was laundered into the US. ..."
But the majority of the people want democracy and not fascism
While I agree that Ukrainian events are very complex and I am far from being an expert in
this area, I think the Ukrainian events can be understood better, if we view them via the prism
of a typical Latin American color revolution with the corresponding role of CIA and other
agencies. Below is my interpretation of this event using this framework.
This was a collective effort of the USA and several NATO allies (Germany, Poland, Sweden
were the most active (Georgian snipers were used for the classic "shooting the protesters by
government" false flag operation)
The majority of Ukrainian people protested not about democracy, but about their current
miserable conditions. They wanted a higher standard of living because the standard of living in
Ukraine was one of the lowest in Europe (only Moldova has lower, I think). And the promise of
such a standard living served as a carrot, the powerful catalyst to drive them into the protest
(especially students.) The minority like neo-fascist and football hooligans gangs (the driving
force of clashes with government forces) were fighting for the establishment of a neo-fascist
regime with the anti-Russian edge, or, at least, Baltics-style nationalist government with the
suppression of Russian language as the key demand from Western Ukrainian nationalists. The
effect was somewhat similar as if in Canada Quebec nationalists came to power and prohibited
English language.
And to incite people living in miserable conditions for a social protest is a no-brainer,
and 5 billion of dollars mentioned by Nuland for this operation definitely suffice in a country
with average monthly income below $100 :-). Dropped standard of living and high unemployment is
what people usually get under neoliberalism anyway, and Ukraine was a neoliberal showcase from
1991. Like was the case with all xUSSR countries IMF specialists (economic gangsters) converted
it into an Oligarchic republic in the best Latin American style with a corresponding level of
inequality. Not that people actively resisted -- they were brainwashed and also allergic to any
social-democratic program due to their Soviet past. They expected that a higher standard of
living is coming with Neoliberalism, and it did, but only to upper 5-10% of population. In any
case this was the period of Triumphal march of neoliberalism.
And those naïve (and already fleeced) people who believed of lofty Euromaydan slogans
were royally fleeced again (standard of living dropped since February 2014 probably more than
two times, while the currency depreciated ~ 300%). In any case, the main driver of protest was
very effective 24×7 propaganda ("western standards of living tomorrow") from controlled
by the "opposition" (in reality controlled and supported by the West putschists ) TV channels,
newspapers, and such. As well as a huge injection of money from the West -- for many
protesters, this was the only well paid daily job they can get and which they cherished. BTW do
you know how much "western" cash was confiscated in the Batkivshchina Party headquarters( the
main driver of EuroMaydan)? You probably never even heard about this incident.
Yanukovich was weak, was sitting between two chairs, and amazingly corrupt. Biden threated
to confiscate his ill-gotten wealth if he attacks the protesters. So at this point, he was
doomed. Also, several members of his party turned to be turncoats a very typical scenario for
any color revolution -- buying politicians (especially homosexuals) is what the intelligence
services do in such cases. So this was a very easy operation.
After Provisional Government came to power the USA gradually pushed the country into civil
was (not that Western Ukrainian nationalists were against; they were drunk with the victory.)
BTW it looks like Brennan was instrumental in this push: he visited Ukraine under a false name
at the time. So we can assume that this was the plan and the Odessa event, Mariupol event, etc.
were just stages of this plan. And those events naturally led to Donetsk uprising (Putin
initial unrealistic promises and then backtracking on them due to the fear of the total
isolation of Russia also played a role).
BTW like under Pinochet, all social democratic parties were instantly banned. Latin America
style "deaths squads" were formed from neo-fascist elements and members of the football
hooligans gangs and financed by oligarchs like Kolomoyski and Poroshenko, much like in Latin
America. For example, the Odessa Massacre was the result of the preplanned operation of such a
squad (transported to Odessa for a specific purpose of intimidation of the protesters) .
It is actually amazing how easily people in such a large country can be manipulated by
foreign powers and pushed to commit actions detrimental to their own economic interests. In a
way, Ukrainian event demonstrated the power of neoliberalism even in its current zombie
stage.
stephen t johnson #77: "Whatever military assistance Russia gives the rebels is
about making sure they don't go too the left in fighting the fascists and making sure there are
no embarrassing wave of Russian-speaking refugees from Ukrainian fascism."
Putin is really afraid of leftism among Russian Ukrainians, and the "embarrassment" of an
exodus into Russia? Your whole paragraph stirs propagandistic bits of excuse-mongering into an
illogical mash. Look, Ukraine is a long complicated discussion but a simple overview is that
most of the country wants to ally with the EU and the eastern portion wants to ally with
Russia. Yes, there is a lot of corruption. Yes, Euromaidan (pro-EU) was probably 1/3 far right.
Yes, there are fascist parties. But the majority of the people want democracy and not fascism.
Instead these poor people got Zelensky being extorted by yet another thug.
(Vindman is correct, this is another disaster by Trump with longterm consequences for US
foreign policy. While the US Republicans have also gone thug, saying it's no big deal.)
If the Steinmeier formula holds and there are free elections in Donbass and the majority
votes for kicking out Putin, do you think Putin going to withdraw his Russian Army regulars?
Accompanying the annexation of Crimea was Putin's long letter to the international community
justifying his action because there were "nationalists, neo-Nazis, Russophobes, and
anti-Semites" who are committing "pogroms and terror". This now appears to be mostly fiction
(perhaps enhanced by Putin's agent provocateurs).
stephen
t johnson #77: "Whatever military assistance Russia gives the rebels is about making sure they
don't go too the left in fighting the fascists and making sure there are no embarrassing wave
of Russian-speaking refugees from Ukrainian fascism."
Putin is really afraid of leftism among Russian Ukrainians, and the "embarrassment" of an
exodus into Russia? Your whole paragraph stirs propagandistic bits of excuse-mongering into an
illogical mash. Look, Ukraine is a long complicated discussion but a simple overview is that
most of the country wants to ally with the EU and the eastern portion wants to ally with
Russia.
Yes, there is a lot of corruption. Yes, Euromaidan (pro-EU) was probably 1/3 far right.
Yes, there are fascist parties. But the majority of the people want democracy and not fascism.
Instead these poor people got Zelensky being extorted by yet another thug. (Vindman is correct,
this is another disaster by Trump with long term consequences for US foreign policy.
While the
US Republicans have also gone thug, saying it's no big deal.) If the Steinmeier formula holds
and there are free elections in Donbass and the majority votes for kicking out Putin, do you
think Putin going to withdraw his Russian Army regulars? Accompanying the annexation of Crimea
was Putin's long letter to the international community justifying his action because there were
"nationalists, neo-Nazis, Russophobes, and anti-Semites" who are committing "pogroms and
terror".
Lee Arnold@80 "Putin is really afraid of leftism among Russian Ukrainians, and the
"embarrassment" of an exodus into Russia? "
Yes, Putin does not want wholesale expropriation of oligarchs, as he does not stand for
that in Russia (selective prosecution sufficient to appear to be a defender of the people and
serve as a stick -- accompanied by carrots -- to negotiate oligarch support. Also, Putin
doesn't even want to pay pensions, he certainly doesn't want the embarrassment of refugees
neglected, or worse, costing.
This point rests on the premise Putin isn't a right-winger, which is absurd.
"If the Steinmeier formula holds and there are free elections in Donbass and the majority
votes for kicking out Putin, do you think Putin going to withdraw his Russian Army regulars?"
https://www.rferl.org/a/what-is-the-steinmeier-formula-and-did-zelenskiy-just-capitulate-to-moscow-/30195593.html
This source may not be right-wing enough for your tastes, of course. But for the rest of us,
it suggests that an if centered on the Steinmeier formula is disingenuous in itself.
It's not even clear that Zelensky hasn't rejected the Steinmeier formula! The problem with
re-unifying the country is the fascist regime is quite hostile to what it sees as unUkrainian
elements, namely Russian speakers. National purity are favorite fascist principles but none
of the rest of us are required to accept them. Your belief that an election supervised by the
fascist regime is free and fair is wrong, no matter what you imply. And frankly, the notion
the OSCE is surely neutral is dubious too.
There was never any reliable evidence of any significant numbers of regulars moving into
Donetsk and Lugansk, because no, media reports are not reliable when addressing official
enemies. It is almost certain there are advisors and mercenaries, copying the US model, but
they are not what is generally meant by an invasion. They have not stakes out a separate
territory as the US territory did in Syria. There are military reasons for setting up a
perimeter, for mission security if nothing else. In short, there is in fact quite simple
reasons for thinking, yes, Putin would stop spending money on Donetsk and Lugansk, and save
on weapons and withdraw his advisers.
Further, the casualties in the Russian Army's officer corps by the way would end up being
known to the Russian Army, and eventually everyone else concerned. But they're not. Equally,
the large numbers of regulars alleged would have been in the recent prisoner exchange, but
they weren't. Some of those as I recall had been arrested merely for subversion, not taken
prisoner of war. Casualties of course are not the only costs to Putin, there also being the
money and weapons. The thing is of course, these are all excellent reasons for Putin to
withdraw. You are tacitly presuming the conclusion, that Putin is a crazed warmonger unable
even to calculate self-interest. Substituting scorn for analysis is not becoming.
"Yes, there are fascist parties." This is entirely misleading. There are fascist armed
formations incorporated into the Ukrainian army, financed privately.
I can't actually read the article as it's paywalled but it's conservative enough to carry
weight here.
There's the bit about Haaretz, which is like the anti-socialists ginning up anti-semitism
smears against Corbyn. I say the stylized swastika on the stage with the PM of Ukraine shows
us more than an old letter. I have no idea how you can say the people murdered when a
building was set on fire and democratic mob drove people back in, don't somehow count as
"pogroms and terror."
But you missed a trick in pointing out "Jewish" opposition to "Putin." (The people in
Donestsk and Lugansk are no one? Except maybe pre-corpses?) Ihor Kolomoyskiy, the primary
funder/founder of the Azov battalion, definitely wants no part of "Putin."
Most of this discussion is rarely about the left, but here arises a major marker
distinguishing the left, which is anti-fascism. You're pro-fascist.
nastywoman@79 was so stung the comment was actually intelligible. Unfortunately, asserting
something which isn't nonsense -- unlike nastywoman's usual incoherence -- without a shred of
argument is naked hostility, not an argument. The gored ox bellows loud!
"... This period is when Clinton IMHO sent NATO in a wrong direction from being strictly defensive/political to getting involved in Yugoslavia which certainly irritated Russia. ..."
"... Then good old Obama and another Clinton deciding to overthrow Gaddafi and his whole Arab Spring foreign policy to include getting involved in Syria. These were disastrous decisions that the current POTUS inherited and is trying to change except the "deep state" is fighting him tooth and nail. ..."
"... Getting out of Ukraine would be a huge trust maker for Russia and it would be followed by sanctions being lifted allowing for a level playing field to begin working on the issues that need fixing. NATO isn't going away however the forward deployed forces in the Baltic's and Poland could over time in an agreed to reciprocal move say removing Iskander missiles from Kaliningrad could be accomplished. ..."
You are 100% correct that trust is the number one point in coming to any agreement and
currently there is very little trust on either side for varying reasons. One important fact
that is overlooked by most people is the leadership of President George H. W. Bush and PM
Margaret Thatcher during the transition from the Soviet Union/Warsaw pact to independent
sovereign nations. The Bush was a WW II pilot and Thatcher earned the name Iron Lady for her
decisive action in the Falklands War, both understood the world as it was in 1990. This
statement highlights the view that prevailed from Bush at the time: "Not once, but three
times, Baker tried out the "not one inch eastward" formula with Gorbachev in the February 9,
1990, meeting. He agreed with Gorbachev's statement in response to the assurances that "NATO
expansion is unacceptable." Baker assured Gorbachev that "neither the President nor I intend
to extract any unilateral advantages from the processes that are taking place," and that the
Americans understood that "not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as
well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in
Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO's present military jurisdiction
will spread in an eastern direction." (See Document 6)"
These were complicated issues that involved a multitude of parties being negotiated by
just a few i.e. US, UK, France and West Germany a holdover from the WW II model. The Poles,
Czechs and others were not consulted and IMHO had they been the situation would have become
untenable. It must be remembered that Poland and Czechoslovakia suffered heavily due to
"large important nations" giving them away pre and post WW II. There was no written agreement
nor official treaty between the west and the Soviet Union soon to be Russian Federation and I
believe that was intentional for the reason I give above. George H. W. Bush was not reelected
in 1992 and Bill Clinton became POTUS and he pursued a foreign policy that was entirely
different. Some of his ideas used Thatchers earlier idea of a more political NATO with less
emphasis on the original military mission which brought in the Partnerships for Peace
program. That program was IMHO quite good as it stabilized countries that were wobbly in the
1990's after the breakup occurred. The Clinton White House had Madeline Albright an immigrant
from Czechoslovakia as secretary of State and Zbigniew Brzezinski a former secretary of State
and an academic that influenced his policies which were pro eastern European anti Russian. It
was during this time that NATO expanded. The US is a country of immigrants and there is a
large Polish population as well as other eastern Europeans and political considerations are
always come into play.
This period is when Clinton IMHO sent NATO in a wrong direction from being strictly
defensive/political to getting involved in Yugoslavia which certainly irritated Russia.
G.W. Bush basically continued the trend with regard to NATO but was preoccupied with 9/11
more than anything else. Bush thought that he understood Putin and even invited him to his
ranch in Crawford, Texas which Putin accepted and they did seem to get along.
However 2008
and the Georgia War began the slide in relations between the two countries. Then good old
Obama and another Clinton deciding to overthrow Gaddafi and his whole Arab Spring foreign
policy to include getting involved in Syria. These were disastrous decisions that the current
POTUS inherited and is trying to change except the "deep state" is fighting him tooth and
nail.
Getting out of Ukraine would be a huge trust maker for Russia and it would be followed by
sanctions being lifted allowing for a level playing field to begin working on the issues that
need fixing. NATO isn't going away however the forward deployed forces in the Baltic's and
Poland could over time in an agreed to reciprocal move say removing Iskander missiles from
Kaliningrad could be accomplished.
Many have tried, usually ended up in those infamous endless Russian fields, in long boxes.
See Pushkin, for the exact quote. But historical trivialities aside, there should be a way to
satisfy Imperial hubris without 'salting the grounds'. Hannibal's elephants did not carry
nukes in their trunks. Trying for the sixth time in the last 4 centuries to get Moscow
grounds salted might end badly for the entire planet.
Trust was not breached by Russia, military buildup, hostile threatening military, NATO
expansion and refusal to negotiate on these issues did not originate from Russia. Russia has
tried to negotiate, concede and de-escalate before. The West did not respond to those moves.
Even US sanctions placed on Soviet Union were not removed from Russia, despite there being no
reason for them to remain in place. This and other recent events (libya, iran deal etc) tells
Russia and other global players that de-escalating with the West doesn't work.
Even now, West seems to be interested to trade with Russia at least in some areas. And
Europe is increasingly frustrated with the United States. There is reportedly a number of EU
initiatives aimed at gradually limiting US economic levers created during the Cold War.
Rising economies will gradually offer more opportunities outside of the Western world.
Multipolar wolrd was a slogan in the 00s, in the 2040es it might be a reality.
We know NATO will not maintain ABM and CFE, and it is apparently not interested in INF and
Open Skies, and even START is in question now. NATO will withdraw troops if only Russia does
something? Please, you don't really believe that. With INF gone, Iskander is outdated, it was
a treaty-limited weapon. Moving it a few hundred klicks will not make NATO concede anything
now.
A huge trust maker would be for all NATO members to publically admit on their web page
that pledges to Russia were broken and at least some NATO officials feel responsibility for
that. They've spent 27 years denying any verbal assurances, now that those assurances are
declassified, they build other narratives about how those pledges did not matter. For there
to be trust, there needs to be an admission that trust was there, and was broken, and not by
Russia. No troop movements necessary even.
Biden isn't going to win the next election Trump will be reelected in 2020. The current
strain in relations with Russia has been inherited by Trump and even before he was elected
the DNC and Hillary Clinton cooked up the "Russia colusion" story which after $46 million and
2 1/2 years no Russia collision. Of course now we have the Dems trying to impeach Trump which
will not go anywhere in the Senate more waste of time and money. However there is the Justice
Department I.G. report soon to be released and many of the people who brought you the Russia
colusion hoax will be named. The Justice Department has an ongoing criminal investigation
into the key players and will undoubtedly result in indictments and prosecutions.
The real reason all of this is going on is because the establishment both Dem's & Repub's
along with the deep state look at Trump as an outsider who is tipping over their apple cart
i.e. he is changing the foreign policy direction and they don't like it one bit so they
create fake issues to try and stop him.
After his reelection I predict that more normal relations with Russia will resume.
Nowadays the actual attacks are manifested as 'hybrid warfare'. Of course Russia took the
US intervention and financing of Chechen rebels as an attack back in the 2000 ties. She took
fermenting and financing of the Georgian rose revolution as a hybrid attack, same as promises
made to pres. Saakashvili to support him militarily and politically after his attack on
Tskhinvali were taken as a hybrid attack. Same goes for both of the first color revolution in
Ukraine, and then the Revolution of dignity of 2014 that pushed ultra-right government to
power in Ukraine. In fact the NATO promise to both Georgia and Ukraine to take them in as
members in 2008 right after Putin's warning in 2007 was the first move in the 'hybrid war'.
The West had been warned, yet it decided to bulldoze its way across Eurasia and triggered the
confrontation. The placings of Aegises ashore in Poland and Romania was the cherry on top.
There can be be no meaningful compromise until the West backs off on the NATO enlargement.
That 2008 conference was what had reanimated the image of the collective West as adversary
for Russia.
What both sides should strive for though is at the very least to diminish the degree of
danger to the planet. Russia would not back off because she finds it easy enough to corner
individual EU states into minimal economic cooperation - Germany is already in recession and
there is no way they are going to continue damaging their economy for the sake of US
politics. And then there is China. When the Russians cannot buy goods from Germans they go
for made in China, which in turn gets China secure oil and gas from Russia. Which make the
repeat of pre-WW II situation with blockade on Japan pretty much impossible. Get realistic,
the West is loosing this one and should count her chickens already.
Well, then the sanctions will continue, as will the policy of keeping Russian in check in
the EU gas market.
What's interesting is that NATO never attacked Russia or threatened to attack Russia. Seems
to me that Putin is simply using the expansion as a pretext for military aggression against
the neighboring states. It's what the USSR did in 1939 against Finland. According the Soviet
side, the war started after Finland attacked the Soviet Union...
Russia *needs* the sanctions for at least another 5 years. Her milk and beef production is
still lagging compared to the deceased USSR and the only way her greedy oligarchs will
heavily invest in cow herd rearing is to continue to block the Eastern European milk products
to enter Russia. Chicken, eggs, pork and veggies are already up to speed, wheat production is
exploding, the salmon breeding programme have started so the Norway is not getting her market
back, bu the cow herds take longer to rear.
The Power of Siberia pipeline is being certified and filled right now - China would receive
her first delivery of piped Russian gas in 2020, so it is good that EU is prepping or the
squeeze - they are not going to continue getting unlimited cheap Russian gas, because Power
of Siberia II is in the works.
Every individual NATO member had attacked Russia in the past 4 centuries ( including small
but meaningful US contingent in the 1918), and some non-member allies had stomped those
fields as well. So the Russians are not taking any chances with the buffer zone. All of
Russia expansions to the West have always started with West invading first - then being
rolled back league by league. But seriously - ? Russians can live with Europe staying where
she is - if in turn Europe can learn to respect her civilization borders. The move on Ukraine
and Georgia was not a wise one.
The article , written by Breitbart senior investigative reporter New York Times bestselling author and Aaron Klein, details how
Ciaramella was central to the Obama administration's Ukraine policy - including the eventual signing of a $1 billion US loan guarantee
after former VP Joe Biden pressured them into firing the guy investigating an energy company paying his son to sit on their board
, Burisma Holdings.
In response to Trump Jr. tweeting Ciaramella's name, journalist Yashar Ali (who worked for Hillary Clinton's 2008 presidential
campaign) contacted Don Jr., who told him " The outrage on this is BS. And those pretending that I would coordinate with The White
House to send out a Breitbart link haven't been watching my feed for a long time ."
Don Jr. then tweeted "The entire media is #Triggered that I (a private citizen) tweeted out a story naming the alleged whistleblower.
Are they going to pretend that his name hasn't been in the public domain for weeks now? Numerous people & news outlets including
Real Clear Politics already ID'd him."
Trump Jr.'s 'outing' of Ciaramella comes one day after Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) said he was considering releasing the whistleblower's
name, and claimed that he may be involved in Ukraine corruption.
Ciaramella interfaced about Ukraine with individuals who played key roles in facilitating the infamous anti-Trump dossier produced
by Fusion GPS and reportedly financed by Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee.
General-Prosecutor Victor Shokin was being pressured -- mostly by the USA -- to
prosecute corruption more effectively.
In response to such pressure, Shokin initiated an investigation of Mykola Zlochevsky on
October 17, 2015. It seems that Britain had established an investigation of Zlochevsky in
2014, had suspended that investigation on January 21, 2015, but then resumed that
investigation in October 2015. Shokin joined that British investigation on October 17,
2015.
It seems further that the USA eventually took unknown actions to prevent that joint
British-Ukrainian investigation of Zlochevsky.
On December 7-8, 2015, Vice President Biden indicated that a large US grant of aid money
would be conditional. However, the conditions seem to be secret.
In this situation, before the end of December 2015, General-Prosecutor Shokin transfered
the Zlochevsky investigation to the so-called National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine
(NABU), which essentially was a creature of the US Government.
The situation seemed to remain quiet through the month of January 2016. On February 2,
however, Shokin seized some of Zlochevsky's property, even though the NABU was supposed to
be managing the Zlochevsky case.
Sholin's seizure of Zlochevsky's property on February 2 sparked a US-Ukraine crisis. The
US (i.e. the Bidens) felt it had been double-crossed by Shokin.
Although the property seizure occurred on February 2, it was not announced publicly
until February 4. On that same day, Hunter Biden began following the Twitter account of US
Deputy Secretary of State Tony Blinken, who managed Ukrainian affairs. (I wonder if Blinken
communicated in code to Hunter Biden by means of Twitter.)
On February 12, Vice President Joe Biden talked with Ukrainian President Poroshenko by
telephone and ordered the firing of Shokin. The firing essentially happened later that same
day.
Joe Biden's story about waiting for an airplane due to take off in six hours might be
false or might refer to an airplane taking off in some country other than Ukraine.
Are vlochevsky, kolomoisky, and pinchbuk partners in crime?
$1.8 billion in imf loans "disappeared" in koilomoiski's
privat bank. After that privat bank was nationalized and kolomoiski
fled to the us. Was this how vlochevsky's asets doubled? Coincidentally
the chinese firm investment in rosemont seneca was over $1 billion.
Some
have speculated that the Bidens could have become billionaires from this.
Was the Chinese firm a pass through for the embezzled $1.8 billion IMF loan?
Obama Bin Biden and the crooked clan need to get back in the game somehow so they can rip
off another 3 billion in US tax payer loans. What were they up to 44 Billion in fraudulent
loans to Ukraine?
Interesting how they want to Impeach Trump over Ukraine, don't you think?
Oleg, you followed Biden story from its very inception. Biden is not the only Dem
politician involved in the Ukrainian corruption schemes, is he?
Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his
partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one. During the Obama presidency, Biden was the
US proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised
transfer of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of
the Ukraine; the money was stolen, and Biden took a big share of the spoils.
It is a story of ripping the US taxpayer and the Ukrainian customer off for the benefit
of a few corruptioners, American and Ukrainian. And it is a story of Kiev regime and its
dependence on the US and IMF. The Ukraine has a few midsize deposits of natural gas,
sufficient for domestic household consumption. The cost of its production was quite low;
and the Ukrainians got used to pay pennies for their gas. Actually, it was so cheap to
produce that the Ukraine could provide all its households with free gas for heating and
cooking, just like Libya did. Despite low consumer price, the gas companies (like Burisma)
had very high profits and very little expenditure.
After the 2014 coup, IMF demanded to raise the price of gas for the domestic consumer to
European levels, and the new president Petro Poroshenko obliged them. The prices went
sky-high. The Ukrainians were forced to pay many times more for their cooking and heating;
and huge profits went to coffers of the gas companies. Instead of raising taxes or lowering
prices, President Poroshenko demanded the gas companies to pay him or subsidise his
projects. He said that he arranged the price hike; it means he should be considered a
partner.
Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually
its founder and owner Mr Nicolai Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners
into the company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's appetites. He
had brought in Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it
didn't help him.
Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney
General Shokin to investigate Burisma trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin
immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and 150 thousand
dollar per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the
Ukrainian tax code; it can't be recognised as legitimate expenditure.
At that time Biden the father entered the fray. He called Poroshenko and gave him six
hours to close the case against his son. Otherwise, one billion dollars of the US
taxpayers' funds won't pass to the Ukrainian corruptioners. Zlochevsky, the Burisma owner,
paid Biden well for this conversation: he received between three and ten million dollars,
according to different sources.
AG Shokin said he can't close the case within six hours; Poroshenko sacked him and
installed Mr Lutsenko in his stead. Lutsenko was willing to dismiss the case of Burisma,
but he also could not do it in a day, or even in a week. Biden, as we know, could not keep
his trap shut: by talking about the pressure he put on Poroshenko, he incriminated himself.
Meanwhile Mr Shokin gave evidence that Biden put pressure on Poroshenko to fire him, and
now it was confirmed. The evidence was given to the US lawyers in connection with another
case, Firtash case.
"... As for the rest of Ukraine, even though they lost something, they get something valuable in return: it's called neutral status between east and west. A subdued, federalized Ukraine led by Zelensky, in many ways, makes Ukraine "Finlandized." That is good for the Ukrainian people. It means they retain their independence, but peacefully accept that Russia controls their foreign policy. That position benefited Finland between 1945 and 1991. Finland is now a peaceful and prosperous country, and it is no longer living under influence of Russia or the Soviets. If "Finlandization" led to happiness for the Finns, it can do the same for Ukraine. ..."
"... Finland did not fight against Swedish language and peacefully uses it, while it is "legacy of Swedish occupation" and less than 10% of Finnish people can speak it. Ukrainian Nazis are deprived of wisdom, they are fighting with Russian language and own people. So, if you haven't brain, nothing will help you. ..."
"... after Maidan, Nuland directly stated that the United States spent 5 billion on "building democracy in Ukraine." The United States invested 5 billion in a coup, but is Poland to blame? why? if Poland had really done that, then western Ukraine would have become part of Poland immediately after the Maidan, but this did not happen. After the Maidan, Biden was photographed in a pride chair, but not the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland;) ..."
When Russia is led by truly capable leaders, it can beat any foreign power in war or geostrategic conflict. Today Russia is
led by a great man who is starting to look more and more like another Suvorov.
And everyone knows who Suvorov was.
Just read today's headlines concerning Syria. Russia ordered Turkey to stand down its offensive. Russian troops are now functioning
as peacekeepers in-between the Turkish and Syrian armies. The Kurds have signed allied themselves with Russia and Assad.
..while Americans of all stripes scratch their heads wondering what went wrong, and then check CNN and their FB feeds in a
hopeless bid to understand what's going down. Just.... hilarious....
What disturbs me the most is that Americans are being misled into believing that they "lost" something in Syria. In reality,
America "lost" nothing in Syria. That's because the US was never established in Syria to begin with. America has long been established
in Syria's neighbors, Israel, SA, Turkey, and to a lesser degree Iraq. But not Syria.
Basically, America got involved in Syria for aggressive, illegitimate, and unnecessary reasons. We were there to further the
over-ambitious geopolitical ambitions of our ME allies. That's why America launched a minor invasion of eastern Syria, and armed
and funded rebels, jihadis to try to violently overthrow Assad. And when that didn't work, the US POTUS justifiably pulled out
US troops and stopped supporting the rebels.
So, America didn't ever have anything to gain or to lose in Syria. Nothing at all.
Meanwhile, all the hawkish American newspapers -- which includes much of MSM -- are now complaining that Trump allowed Russia
to "take" Syria, and to "humiliate" and "drive out" America from that country. What hogwash! What propaganda and lies!
Russia has been in Syria for nearly 50 years. That means Russia's the chief ally of Syria, and as such, is a guarantor peace
and stability in the country. Also, Russia definitely has something to lose in Syria if Assad gets overthrown. So, in the end,
Russia wasn't trying to "take over Syria," as lying US media suggests. Russia was just protecting itself, protecting Assad, and
trying to impose peace on the region.
Check out Newsweek's totally dishonest story on this is subject. The article was published today. It's a shame so many
naive Americans believe these lies about America's alleged "role" in Syria.
Sir, we got involved in Syria because of Assad, who is a monster to his own people. If you're talking about Butinterests in
terms of money, no -- we don't have any. But in terms of principles, yes, we were justified in entering that area of the country.
And we made a difference. Or else the Russians wouldn't be rushing in to take the place we left. We were getting a lot out
of very little engagement.
Russia has never been a guarantee for peace and stability anywhere; it has always been a guarantee of more support for Russia.
Whenever necessary, instabillity was sown, and inconvenient parties, whether or not former allies, were abandoned.
Plus, there is the nagging issue of the Kurds having helped us in the fight against ISIS. Letting this out of the picture is
as dishonest as you try to make parts of the MSM be.
But hey -- have your own opinions. Write a book about them while you're at it.
Sir, we got involved in Syria because of Assad, who is a monster to his own people. If you're talking about Butinterests in
terms of money, no -- we don't have any. But in terms of principles, yes, we were justified in entering that area of the country.
sorry what???
In fact, Assad is the legitimate, democratically elected president of Syria. have you decided in the USA that you have the
right to decide who is bad and who is good?
The United States has worked hard to overthrow legitimate power in Syria. for 7 years of NATO's joint operation in Syria, ISIS
captured 70% of the territory of this country. Of course, with the active support of the United States, it supplied weapons to
everyone who was ready to fight against the Syrian army. but the "evil" Russia came and ruined everything. for 5 years of military
operations in Syria, ISIS were defeated and switched to guerrilla warfare. solved the problem between the Kurds, Turks and Syrians.
US plans have completely collapsed. or not?
Congress is currently making a decision to bring tanks into Syria to protect oil fields from terrorists. Really??? it looks
like American democracy is black and actually called oil! all these hundreds of thousands of murdered women and children in Syria
just so that the United States could continue to steal oil from Syria!
"the greatest power in the world" turns out to be an ordinary thief! do not you disgust?
Sir, we got involved in Syria because of Assad, who is a monster to his own people.
Define what you mean by "monster to his own people." And explain to me why 30% of Syrians -- a huge chunk of whole -- have
always been solidly behind Assad.
If you're talking about the Assad regime's barrel bombing, yes, that's monstrous. But Assad didn't start doing that until the
civil war was fulling raging. That war, mind you, didn't broaden and deepen until America stepped in to fund and arm Assad's enemies.
Had America had stayed out of Syria and allowed Assad to stamp out the initial protests and acts of rebellion, then there would
have been no civil war. Therefore, America's involved escalated Syria's civil disorder all the way up to the level of a full fledged
war, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths.
I really don't understand how American Triumphalists and messianic spreaders of American democracy can justify what they did
in Syria. Essentially, America consciously took a chance in Syria, choosing to support the rebels on the off chance that they
might topple Assad. America knew that the price of failure in this reckless gambit would be the deaths of hundreds of thousands
of Syrians.
Why did America do this? America's action in Syria were driven by the desire to turn the country into a strategic asset. America
chose to pursue this goal on behalf of its regional allies (all Syrian enemies), Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey. That's
all. Never mind "principles." We're talking geopolitical ambitions here. Blind ambitions.
It's a mysterious to me as to why you blame the war on Russia. After all, Russia's been in Syria for nearly 50 years. During
that time, Syria was stable, and experienced no civil war. But as soon as America began meddling in Syria, war broke out. Russia
worked with Assad to try to stomp out that war. America worked with the rebels to expand it.
Ukraine power captured it's country in own trap. They can't stop civil war in Donbass because then they will need to explain
somehow why they killed Donbass people (Ukraine Nazis power hate Donbassians, but at the same time pretends to call them their
own citizens) for so many years. Admit truth means acknowledge own crimes. So, the only way they have is continuing lying about
"liberation" (means genociding) of Donbass.
But rest assured: Ukraine is beaten and the Ukrainians know it. They can feel it. That's why they elected Zelensky, who
may be a sensible guy.
Implementation of the peace plan in Donbass will turn the region into a virtually independent part of Ukraine. Russia will
be able to influence Ukrainian politics through its connections in Donbass. That means Russia will have gained exactly what it
fought for: veto power over Ukraine's attempts to join the EU and NATO.
As for the rest of Ukraine, even though they lost something, they get something valuable in return: it's called neutral
status between east and west. A subdued, federalized Ukraine led by Zelensky, in many ways, makes Ukraine "Finlandized." That
is good for the Ukrainian people. It means they retain their independence, but peacefully accept that Russia controls their foreign
policy. That position benefited Finland between 1945 and 1991. Finland is now a peaceful and prosperous country, and it is no
longer living under influence of Russia or the Soviets. If "Finlandization" led to happiness for the Finns, it can do the same
for Ukraine.
Finland did not fight against Swedish language and peacefully uses it, while it is "legacy of Swedish occupation" and less
than 10% of Finnish people can speak it. Ukrainian Nazis are deprived of wisdom, they are fighting with Russian language and own
people. So, if you haven't brain, nothing will help you.
But rest assured: Ukraine is beaten and the Ukrainians know it. They can feel it. That's why they elected Zelensky, who may
be a sensible guy.
your optimism is due to ignorance of the peculiarities of Ukrainian political life;) Let's start with a short introduction
to Ukrainian political life. Who is Zelensky? this is a representative of the oligarch Kolomoisky. exactly the same oligarch as
Parashenko has ruled Ukraine for the past 5 years. For 5 years, Parashenko has robbed banks and enterprises of other oligarchs
in Ukraine, now Kolomoisky will do the same through his representative Zelensky.
Now about the peace process in the Donbas ... The armed coup in 2014 was carried out by the forces of Ukrainian Nazis and over
the past 5 years, the Ukrainian Nazis have firmly established themselves in the Verkhovna Rada and, most importantly, in the army
and law enforcement agencies. these structures are controlled by Avakov, not Zelensky. Zelensky cannot withdraw troops, and even
more so "Ukrainian volunteers" from punitive battalions Aidar, Azov, etc. Zelensky does not control these formations and has no
leverage over them. all he can do is put forward an additional requirement of 7 days without shelling. Naturally, the shelling
is not embellished and no one withdraws the troops. Even if Zelensky really wanted to end the war, there simply isn't any opportunity
for this. all that he can do is populism and tell that he will return Crimea :))))
Mr Gvosdev sounds like one of those Eastern European svidomites . They combine this unwavering faith in the power of
Washington on top of a deep, irrational hostility to Russia.
How is "collapse of Russian economy" going to happen exactly? Judging by the casual manner in which Gvosdev talks about it,
I think he imagines president Biden flipping some switch in his cabinet, and the economy of vast country shutting down in an instant.
How does a Western economic war on Russia can help its proxies seize power? It didn't work like this in Iran or Venezuela,
it's even less likely to happen in Russia. If anything the opposite is likely to happen: pro-Western 5th column in Russia will
be eradicated.
You know that the Ukraine is doomed when your "optimistic scenario" requires Russia to drop dead essentially.
Russia's economy is functioning very close to autarky. That means Russia could survive expulsion from SWIFT.
As for for your reference to China, your point is anything but clear. China is forming a strategic alliance with Russia pointed
directly at the US. If you don't realize this, you haven't been reading the news. It would behoove you to know that China and
the US have long been drifting in the direction of a conflict for supremacy in Pan-Pacific affairs. The US has lots of weapons
systems set up in South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan. Beijing is determined to make the US withdraw those military assets from China's
borders. China is also wary of the US's messianic impulse to spread democracy anywhere it can. China blames America for the Hong
Kong disturbances, which Beijing thinks of as America's latest attempt at a "color revolution."
Meanwhile, Russia poses no such threat to China. If anything, Russia makes an ideal junior ally for China in the latter's growing
tendency to constantly subvert the US as the world's superpower. So, I am confused as to what kind of threat you think China poses
to Russia?
Perhaps you believe that China wants to take Siberia from Russia. Do you really believe China has the ability to do so? If
that's what you're thinking, you are willfully blind to the fact that Russia remains a nuclear weapons superpower. If war broke
out between China and Russia (which is very unlikely), which country would do more damage to the other? Think about it: Russia
is a massive open land mass that is not densely populated, and it is full of nuclear missile launch sites. China is a population
dense nation consisting of far less territory than Russia. Who would suffer more in an exchange of nuclear missiles? I think the
answer is clear. For this reason, Beijing is not thinking about war with Russia, or making Russia "collapse," as you say.
Wow, I can write comments here. I am russian, so I can tell the Mordor's version. The article is generally objective, but the
author was cunning in a few points
1) The principal reason why Yanukovich refused to sign the agreement with Europe was the duty free zone with Russia. Russians
sad: ok, You will sign the agreement with Europe, but we have high customs duties with europeneans, so we will break our free
trade zone agreement. Russia was the biggest export market for Ukraine and ukranians understood that they will lose a lot of money.
But Maidan decided differently.
2) Today the Russian primary strategy for Ukraine is do nothing and wait, we have no any influence in this country. We understand
that Europe and USA will not feed this country a lot of time. Internal contradictions will ruin this country before our intervention
3) But we support new government of Zelensky because he has an opportunity to implement Minsk agreements (may be). It will
be enough to close this deal and move on
But we support new goverment of Zelensky because he has an oportunity to implement Minsk aggreements (may be). It will be enough
to close this deal and move on
I do not agree with this. how Zelensky can end the war when the security forces and the army are controlled by Avakov and the
punitive battalions do not even know who controls?
the support of any government in Ukraine is due to the fact that our countries still have a fairly large turnover. while we trade
with ukraine will cooperate ..
But now Poland and other Central European states were similarly interested in changing their position -- from being Euro-Atlantic
frontline states to shifting that line further east
I believe that this is a big reason why Maidan occured. It is also a big reason for the war in Ukraine today. The Poles have
had a hand in this issue from the very beginning. Poland is literally an aggressor state at this point, stoking trouble in Ukraine.
America's greatest sin in all of this has been to allow itself to be influenced by Poland and the Baltic states. Just like
America allowed itself to be led by the nose by its "allies" in the Syrian War. We're talking about two conflicts that have very
little to do with America's best interests, and which could result in disaster (nuclear exchange with Russia) if something goes
wrong.
It's absolutely nuts for anyone to think that nuclear equipped Russia would allow Poland and America to have their way in Ukraine,
which is virtually Russia's front porch. By supporting our Polish "ally," the US has come close to creating a Cuban Missile Crisis
in reverse. In 1963 the Russians provoked America. Since 2014, America has been provoking Russia. It could get much worse.
I believe that this is a big reason why Maidan occured. It is also a big reason for the war in Ukraine today. The Poles have
had a hand in this issue from the very beginning. Poland is literally an aggressor state at this point, stoking trouble in
Ukraine.
but after Maidan, Nuland directly stated that the United States spent 5 billion on "building democracy in Ukraine." The
United States invested 5 billion in a coup, but is Poland to blame? why? if Poland had really done that, then western Ukraine
would have become part of Poland immediately after the Maidan, but this did not happen. After the Maidan, Biden was photographed
in a pride chair, but not the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Poland;)
Okay, I can see where you're coming from. But still, the Russians were readying to station missiles in Cuba, just miles from
America's borders. That means the Russians must have known -- or should have known -- that they were risking war with the US.
That's my point.
Now America's doing the same thing as the USSR did in 1963. America is setting the stage to establish bases, radars, and missiles
in Ukraine. That's what preparing Ukraine for NATO membership is all about. Therefore, America must know -- or should know --
that it is risking war with Russia. In a major way.
Agree with the thrust of your agrument. The US knows it is stoking conflict with their actions (ie Donbass), but since they
are not directly in the firing line (barring major escalations) they simply don't care. They want to discomfort and undermine
Russia, drive a wedge between Russia and Germany/France, and force the Eurotrash into compliance with US diktat as a demonstration
of US power over its minions.
Re the Cuban Missile Crisis, on the balance it wasn't really a climb-down by the Soviets, but it is usually interpreted that
way, especially as anti-Krushchev factions in the USSR were succesful in portraying it that way as part of their palace coup.
The US remoived its misiles from Turkey, promised not to update them with new ones, and undertook not to repeat any more "Bay
of Pigs" attempts at overthrowing Castro by force of arms. All the Soviets needed to do was halt their mobilisation and similarly
agree not to base missiles. On the balance, the Soviets played brinkmanship well and won real concessions in exchange for very
little. Krushchevs problem was really that he marketted the ploy very poorly and was able to be portrayed as a loser by his political
enemies, and Westeners have happily repeated the narratives ever since.
And what? US placed their missiles in every corner of the Globe, including Soviet/Russian borders. Why USSR can't place it's
missiles in Cuba?
BTW, what Gary Powers did in his U-2 in the sky above Ekaterinburg 01.05.1960?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
My point is that each power is expected to respect the other's buffer zones. That's how the powers have gotten along historically.
If and when one side disrespects the other's buffer zone, major trouble is right around the corner.
Generally, in these confrontations between the nuclear superpowers, the side with the less to lose is the first to back down.
That side is always the one that has overreached. In 1963 it was the Soviets who overreached. It's looking increasingly clear
that since 2014, it's the US that's overreached.
The US will find a graceful way to end the Ukraine-NATO expansion issue, something amounting to a face-saving American retreat
from the region. Putin will likely make it easy for America to pull out without loss of prestige.
In general, you are right, but in 60's it was not Soviets, who overreached. It was US planes intervened in Soviet airspace,
not vice versa. It was US, who firstly placed missiles in Turkey in 1961, not USSR in Cuba in 1963.
Ukraine is not going anywhere, because of 115 Mrd. outstanding Debt. Ukraine lost 85% of their Industrial Base in the last
5 Years. Most of them working for Russian Companies. Those Companies get Advanced Payments from Russia till 2014 worth about 10
Mrd. for Material and Salaries. That Money is not coming again. Russian Companies replace 90% of all Ukraine deliveries during
the last 5 Years - more modern and especially with far better time frames. Ukraine has a minor Cash Reserve of 7 Billion USD.
Whatever happens to Ukraine we can be sure of one thing, through our contributions via the World Bank, the IMF and Obama's
loan guarantees, the one million dollars a day paid by U.S taxpayers directly into the pockets of Ukrainian Oligarchs will continue
in perpetuity.
I doubt Putin is in any hurry to relieve us of that 'honor' the man is a master of playing the U.S for a sucker.
You are correct on most counts. However, I think that Putin wants the US to scale down its Ukraine involvement ASAP. That's
because Russia's nightmare is NATO expansion into Ukraine. Therefore, the sooner the US backs away, the less likely Russia will
have to fight a future war in order to keep NATO off of its front yard. Nobody, including Putin, wants war.
Ukraine needs internal stability, this means peace treaty with rebels and some kind of minimal agreement with Russia. Country
needs to buy time, it is too much to expect to fight war, to do reforms and fight corruption and to develop all at the same time.
NATO expansion to East proved to be big destabilizing factor for Ukraine, its geopolitical situation is difficult. It will
always need to balance and make concessions between Eastern and Western interests.
New president looks very promising, hopefully he will be able to bring country back to stability and push it more toward faster
economical development and national reconciliation.
You make some good points regarding stability within the country. The amount now spent on fighting the war in Donbas will not
go down as Ukraine will need to continue to rebuild their military to include new fighters and new ships for the navy however
the killing will stop. Any agreement made with Putin should be made with eyes wide open as Russia has no honor so agreements are
worthless only a potent enough military will guarantee Ukraine's peace.
Peace at any cost is not acceptable and any plan that allows complete autonomy should be a no go, it would be better to just
build a wall along the existing line and rid the country of a fifth columnist element. If the plan allows for local elections,
local use of Russian, local police forces not military but police that is acceptable. These elections must allow for all residents
who resided in the area prior to the war to vote and for all Ukrainian political parties to participate.
Zelenskiy has made corruption a key to his election and it is imperative that he takes some bold action(s) soon to set the
tone. I am a little concerned that he has selected some less than pure individuals to be part of his presidential team, apparently
he hasn't picked up on how bad the optics are by having a lawyer that worked for Kolomosky as your chief of staff?
Cracking down on the oligarchs would allow Ukraine to have a standard of living like Poland within a very few years and many of
the Ukrainians that now work in Poland could come home an make as much money.
The presidential vote proved that at least 73% of Ukrainians agreed that a new beginning was needed hence Zelnskiy being elected.
The reason IMHO that "national reconciliation" hasn't been achieved is the continued Russian interference/influence in Ukraine.
It hasn't been long enough for Ukraine as an independent nation to come to terms with the past history. This part of the world
has seen millions killed over the past 100+ years, the country hasn't come to grips with that there is still finger pointing and
until that is dealt with the reconciliation will be difficult.
The desire to join NATO is all on Russia and it's continuous interference in Ukraine. In all reality NATO is a long way off
as Ukraine needs to do a lot to bring the country up to NATO standards including in the corruption realm.
This part of the world has seen millions killed over the past 100+ years
Ukraine has been used an invasion route by Western aggressors who want to conquer Russia. That's resulted in Russia suffering
millions killed in the 20th century, and hundreds of thousands more killed in earlier wars.
You keep failing to see matters from Russia's perspective. You only think about Ukraine's most selfish national interests.
You've got to understand that any security arrangement in that part of the world will have to be a shared security plan. It will
have to consider and respect Russia's concerns. NATO is not the answer here. Militarization of a Ukraine led by far-right wing
nationalists is not the answer either.
Ukraine's only path to peace and security is to accept the status of Finlandization.
If the plan allows for local elections, local use of Russian, local police forces not military but police that
is acceptable.
It's too late for that. Remember, the Ukrainian ATO invaded Donbass and killed many thousands of innocent local people. For
this reason, Donbass will never allow the Ukrainian military onto its soil.
Yes, I read what you said. That's why I highlighted "military" in my quote. You are saying that Donbass Russians are expected
to allow themselves to be occupied by the Ukrainian military, as if they are conquered, humiliated people. I am saying that Russia
and Donbass will never let that happen.
Let's not overlook that it appears very much like the war is ending now, with Ukraine submitting to the terms set by Donbass
and Russia. That means Zelensky will have to drink his poison soup and allow the Donbass militia to have exclusive and unrestricted
military rights within Donbass, and along the region's borders. That's unavoidable.
Even if you go by Minsk II which plainly does not allow for a Separatist Military there is zero chance that Ukraine will agree
to anything resembling a "military". This territory will be under Ukrainian sovereignty and the border will be under Ukrainian
sovereignty. The autonomy will be for language, education, elections of local councils, cultural endeavors etc...
It is the thugs in charge who are supported by the Kremlin are the ones that envision some quasi country within Ukraine. If
you were to go out into the villages the average person wants the war to end and life to go back to as close to what it was before
this all started. The thugs in charge know that their power and authority will go away if truly free and fair elections are to
be held without Russian and mercenary gun toting thugs walking the streets. They are the ones that are worried as their world
will come to an end if real peace comes to past.
If you were to go out into the villages the average person wants the war to end and life to go back to as close to what
it was before this all started. The thugs in charge know that their power and authority will go away if truly free and fair elections
are to be held...
You are in denial of the facts. Respected international polling agencies have taken polls inside the rebel held portion of
Donbass. The results confirm that the people there want nothing to do with the Ukrainian government, and that they identify themselves
as an extension of Russia.
The only open question among the Donbass people is whether they want to be annexed by Russia (many do), or whether they want
to remain in Ukraine as a completely autonomous region, running all of their own affairs (many like this idea too).
But under no circumstances do the Donbass people want the Ukrainian army to enter their territory, establish bases or outposts,
and then garrison the border with Russia. Why would the Donbass people have fought for five hard, victorious years only to accept
this ignominious outcome? It makes no sense. Donbass and Russia won. Ukraine lost. The winners will not let the losers take military
control of their homeland. No possible way.
From the way your posts read, it's obvious you are way, way oversold on anti-Russian propaganda.
Who says that the Ukrainian Army is going to go into this area of Donbas? Th border will be secured by Ukrainian Border personnel
as it is on every other part of the border. Ukraine is currently decentralizing services and responsibility in the rest of the
country withheld control coming from Kyiv. A modified version of that for occupied Donbas to include local elections, language,
education and local law enforcement is what they should expect. In exchange Kyiv promises to rebuild destroyed infrastructure
and provide economic assistance to the area.
If that isn't good enough then as I said build a wall and cut them lose and let Putin take on the burden which he doesn't want.
Money coming form Russia to rebuild will be a long time in coming and what they have now is pretty much what they can expect for
the future. Of course the educate and most of the young have left the area an only the poor pensioners who had no where to go
are left.
Even if you go by Minsk II which plainly does not allow for a Separatist Military there is zero chance that Ukraine will
agree to anything resembling a "military"
You're living in a dream world if you think this. The reality is that Ukraine has lost the war. Zelensky wouldn't dare to implement
Minsk II unless he were leading a defeated nation, a nation that was throwing in the towel. We're talking about a complete capitulation.
That's what Minsk II means.
I am certain that Zelensky fully expects that once Minsk II is implemented, Ukraine will be somehow be maneuvered into accepting
that the Donbass military is in charge of Donbass and the abutting section of the Russian-Ukraine frontier.
Most likely, after Donbass holds internationally ratified elections per Minsk II, the newly elected officials will claim that
they are officially part of Ukraine's government. From there, they will claim that the Donbass rebel militia, therefore, is officially
an extension of Ukraine's national army. Then, finally, the Donbass leaders and Russia will say that "returning control of the
border to Ukraine" means, in reality, putting the border under the control of the Donbass militia.
Possibly the Donbass militia will wear Ukrainian army uniforms, just for show. But believe me: there's no way the victors in
this war are going to settle for surrendering military control of their territory to a despised, alien military force (i.e., the
Ukrainian army).
There's no possible way that Putin, Russia, or the Donbass rebels would have pushed the Minsk II Accords on Ukraine unless
it one of the treaty's unstated implications is that the Ukrainian military is ejected from the region permanently. That's what
Russia and Donbass fought to achieve. It's unthinkable that they would settle for anything less.
I'm certain that Zelensky and everyone else understands this.
It will not happen Minsk II will not be implemented. Th eUkrainian foreign minister already stated what will be the approach
in the Normandy talks an edit isn't Minsk II.
"The thugs in charge know that their power and authority will go away if truly free and fair elections are to be held without
Russian and mercenary gun toting thugs walking the streets."
What nonsense. You really think that voters in Donetsk & Lugansk would to reward Kiev authorities with their support in light
of the atrocities the "volunteer" battalions have dished out to civilians over the last 5 years???
You can cry about "thugs" or "mercenaries" all you like (in a futile attempt to de-legitimise the views of the seperatists)
but your bias is clear when you whitewash the crimes of Banderites and Neo-Nazis. Or maybe you would prefer to adopt the US MSM
ploy and simply pretend that these factions don't exist, or that no warcrimes have been committed?
You really think that voters in Donetsk & Lugansk would to reward Kiev authorities...
You make a valid point. I'd add also that the rebel controlled areas are the parts of Donetsk and Lugansk where the ethnic
Russian demographic majorities are heaviest. That means there's virtually zero chance that any elections held in that zone will
favor Kiev.
...as Ukraine will need to continue to rebuild their military to include new fighters and new ships for the navy...
Impossible. That's because there aren't enough Ukrainians who feel nationalistic enough to be willing to lay down their lives
in war for Ukraine. The reason for this problem is that a huge minority of Ukrainians are ethnic Russians and pro-Russian Ukrainians
who won't fight Russia. Many other Ukrainian people are ambivalent about national identity, and will not honor their military
obligations.
In some ways, Ukraine's military problem today is akin to that suffered by the Austro-Hungarian Empire in WW1. The Austro-Hungarian
state was multi-national, and much of its population did not share the political and national values of the rulers in Vienna and
Budapest.
Multi-national countries always have trouble fielding political reliable militaries. Even the Soviet Union, a superpower, had
a bottom one-third of military recruits (most from Cental Asia) that simply weren't politically reliable.
Ukraine's military future looks very grim. Only if Kiev grants independence to the non-Ukrainian regions will the country finally
have a population of people who share the same national and political values. That will have to precede Ukraine building any kind
of competent army.
The presidential vote proved that at least 73% of Ukrainians agreed that a new beginning was needed hence Zelnskiy being
elected.
That Ukrainian majority is exhausted and demoralized by the Donbass War. They want peace at any cost, even if that means granting
virtual independence to Donbass. Even if that means allowing Russia to use Donbass as an agent through which it can influence
Ukraine's domestic political situation. That's the "new beginning" that Ukrainians have in mind.
There's no way Zelensky can be in power while simultaneously continuing the Donbass War. Ukrainians elected him to get the
country out of that agony.
My wife is Ukrainian and they will not accept Russia running things through a Fifth column in Donbas. They might as well just
wall it off and be done with it makes zero sense to allow your rendition.
"This was the transfer of Burisma Group's funds for lobbying activities, as investigators
believe, personally to Joe Biden through a lobbying company. Funds in the amount of $900,000
were transferred to the U.S.-based company Rosemont Seneca Partners, which according to open
sources, in particular, the New York Times, is affiliated with Biden. The payment reference was
payment for consultative services," Derkach said.
He also publicized sums that were transferred to Burisma Group representatives, in
particular Hunter Biden, a son of the former U.S. vice president.
"According to the documents, Burisma paid no less than $16.5 million to [former Polish
President, who became an independent director at Burisma Holdings in 2014] Aleksander
Kwasniewski, [chairman of the Burisma board of independent directors] Alan Apter, [Burisma
independent director] Devon Archer and Hunter Biden [who joined the Burisma board of directors
in 2014]," Derkach said.
"Using political and economic levelers of influencing Ukrainian authorities and manipulating
the issue of providing financial aid to Ukraine, Joe Biden actively assisted closing criminal
cases into the activity of former Ukrainian Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, who is the
founder and owner of Burisma Group," he said.
"Biden's fifth visit to Kyiv on December 7-8, 2015 was devoted to making a decision on the
resignation of [then Ukrainian Prosecutor General] Viktor Shokin over the case of Zlochevsky
and Burisma. Loan guarantees worth $1 billion that the United States was to give to Ukraine was
the point of pressure. Biden himself admitted exerting pressure in his speech at the Council of
Foreign Relations in January 2018, calling Shokin 'son of a bitch who was fired'," Derkach
said.
At a press conference at the Interfax-Ukraine agency on Wednesday, he made public the
documents received from investigative journalists, including correspondence between NABU
officers and representatives of diplomatic missions of foreign states in the framework of
criminal proceedings opened under Article 111 of the Criminal Code of Ukraine (High Treason).
In particular, the documents that the deputy possesses indicate that Uglava, through his
assistant Polina Chyzh, gave information to the U.S. Embassy, which, he said, is an important
part of the "puzzle" of interference in U.S. elections and international corruption.
Joe Biden's drug addict son Hunter was sitting on the board of Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian
natural gas company and being paid by some accounts over $200,000 a month even though he had
zero experience in the field.
Then-Vice President Joe Biden, who was tasked to oversee US dealings with Ukraine,
threatened to withhold over $1 billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine unless they fired Viktor
Shokin, the Ukrainian prosecutor investigating Burisma and Hunter.
Biden bragged about shaking down Ukraine and getting Mr. Shokin fired during a 2018 speech
to the Council on Foreign Relations.
New documents unearthed by award-winning investigative reporter John Solomon destroyed the
Democrat narrative that Trump strong-armed Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
The new documents show that Ukraine was reopening the investigation into Burisma and the
crooked Bidens back in February -- before Zelensky was elected president.
While House Democrats gear up for kangaroo-court impeachment proceedings triggered by a whistleblower complaint over President
Trump's communications with Ukraine, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has invited Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani
to explain allegations of rampant corruption against former Vice President Joe Biden and his son Hunter in Ukraine.
Joe Biden infamously bragged on tape last year about abusing his position as Vice President to force Ukraine to fire a prosecutor
investigating Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian gas company which was paying Hunter Biden $600,000 to sit on its board.
Democrats have gone to great lengths to avoid addressing this - and have instead launched impeachment proceedings after a CIA
employee approached the House Intelligence Committee chaired Adam Schiff (D-CA), lawyered up with Democrat operatives, and then filed
a whistleblower complaint using second-hand information on a
recently changed form - the previous version of which explicitly prohibited anything but first-hand info.
The whistleblower and concurrent media reports claimed that President Trump pressured Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky to
investigate the Bidens, however in a surprise move the White House released both a transcript of the call proving there was no pressure
or quid pro quo . A release of the whistleblower complaint suggested it was written by a legal team, and several of its claims were
proven false by the transcript.
On Tuesday, Graham tweeted: "Have heard on numerous occasions disturbing allegations by @RudyGiuliani about corruption in Ukraine
and the many improprieties surrounding the firing of former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin," adding "Given the House of Representatives'
behavior, it is time for the Senate to inquire about corruption and other improprieties involving Ukraine."
"Therefore I will offer to Mr. Giuliani the opportunity to come before the Senate Judiciary Committee to inform the committee
of his concerns ," Graham concluded.
In addition to allegations of malfeasance and profiteering by the Bidens, Giuliani is also looking into Democratic efforts to
meddle in the 2016 US election in favor of Hillary Clinton. In December of 2018, a Ukrainian court ruled thatUkraine's Ukraine's
Director of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), Artem Sytnyk "acted illegally" when he revealed the existence
of Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort's name in a "black ledger" containing off-book payments to Manafort by Ukraine's previous
administration.
While the ruling against Sytnyk and Leshchenko was later overturned on a technicality, The Blaze obtained and translated recording
of Sytnyk bragging about helping Clinton in the 2016 US election .
In response to Graham's offer, Giuliani told
CNN "Love Lindsey,
but I am still a lawyer and I will have to deal with privilege," although "Given the nature of his invitation about my concerns I
might be able to do it without discussing privileged information."
If and when Giuliani shows up, Kamala Harris appears ready to go full attack dog - with theatrics which haven't been witnessed
since last October's anti-Kavanaugh performance.
"... In excess of 13,000 people, mostly Ukrainians, are known to have died in this war, and some two million have been forced from their homes. The economy of eastern Ukraine has collapsed. Ukraine has suffered through painful economic dislocation and political division. Meanwhile, several hundred Russians are believed to have been killed fighting in the Donbass. Western sanctions have damaged Russia's weak economy. And although the majority of Crimeans probably wanted to join Russia, opposition activists and journalists have been abducted, brutalized, and/or imprisoned. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been closed and Tartars have been persecuted. ..."
"... Even though the overall idea of ending the sponsoring of the conflict by Washington is plausible there are a number of shortcomings in the article to put it mildly. I realize though that the author has to make Washington look innocent and Russia look bad to escape the danger of being stigmatized as a pro-Russian traitor. ..."
"... I understand why you want to thread the needle. After the invasions, having to add more failure or at the very least recognition of dysfunction to our foreign policy choices and consequences is a bitter pill. But as you note had the US and the EU seriously had the desire to add the Ukraine into the western European sphere of influence, they could have offered a better deal on oil - they didn't. ..."
"... I think we have got to stop accusing the then existing government of corruption. As your own article states, the history of unstable governance with accompanying "corruption" seems a staple and nonunique. ..."
"... And as is the case in developing countries, what we call corruption is a cultural staple of how business and affairs are conducted. Whatever the issues, the Ukrainian public was not overly beset by the results so as to spontaneously riot. ..."
"... How the civil unrest spun out of control the second time in ten years, can be linked directly to US and EU involvement. ..."
Recently Ukraine has been thrown into the spotlight as Democrats gear up to impeach President Donald Trump. More important, though,
is its role in damaging America's relations with Russia, which has resulted in a mini-Cold War that the U.S. needs to end.
Ukraine is in a bad neighborhood. During the 17th century, the country was divided between Poland and Russia, and eventually ended
up as part of the Russian Empire. Kiev then enjoyed only the briefest of liberations after the 1917 Russian Revolution, before being
reabsorbed by the Soviet Union. It later suffered from a devastating famine as Moscow confiscated food and collectivized agriculture.
Ukraine was ravaged during Germany's World War II invasion, and guerrilla resistance to renewed Soviet control continued for years
afterwards.
In 1991, the collapse of the U.S.S.R. gave Ukraine another, more enduring chance for independence. However, the new nation's development
was fraught: GDP dropped by 60 percent and corruption burgeoned. Ukraine suffered under a succession of corrupt, self-serving, and
ineffective leaders, as the U.S., Europe, and Russia battled for influence.
In 2014, Washington and European governments backed a street putsch against the elected, though highly corrupt, pro-Russian president,
Viktor Yanukovych. The Putin government responded by annexing Crimea and backing separatist forces in Eastern Ukraine's Donbass region.
Washington and Brussels imposed economic sanctions on Russia and provided military aid to Kiev.
The West versus Russia quickly became a "frozen" conflict. Moscow reincorporated Crimea into Russia, from which it had been detached
in 1954 as part of internal Soviet politics. In the Donbass, more than a score of ceasefires came and went. Both Ukraine and Russia
failed to fulfill the 2016 Minsk agreements, which sought to end the conflict.
In excess of 13,000 people, mostly Ukrainians, are known to have died in this war, and some two million have been forced from
their homes. The economy of eastern Ukraine has collapsed. Ukraine has suffered through painful economic dislocation and political
division. Meanwhile, several hundred Russians are believed to have been killed fighting in the Donbass. Western sanctions have damaged
Russia's weak economy. And although the majority of Crimeans probably wanted to join Russia, opposition activists and journalists
have been abducted, brutalized, and/or imprisoned. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been closed and Tartars have been persecuted.
The most important geopolitical impact has been to poison Russia's relations with the West. Moscow's aggressions against Ukraine
cannot be justified, but the U.S. and Europe did much to create the underlying suspicion and hostility. Recently declassified documents
reveal the degree to which Western officials misled Moscow about their intention to expand NATO. Allied support for adding Georgia
and Ukraine, which would have greatly expanded Russian vulnerability, generated a particularly strong reaction in Moscow. The dismemberment
of Serbia with no consideration of Russia's interests was another irritant, along with Western support for "color revolutions" elsewhere,
including in Tbilisi. The ouster of Yanukovych finally triggered Putin's brutal response.
Washington and Brussels apparently did not view their policies as threatening to Russia. However, had Moscow ousted an elected
Mexican president friendly to America, while inviting the new government to join the Warsaw Pact, and worked with a coalition of
Central American states to divert Mexican trade from the U.S., officials in Washington would not have been pleased. They certainly
wouldn't have been overly concerned about juridical niceties in responding.
This explains (though does not justify) Russia's hostile response. Subsequent allied policies then turned the breach in relations
into a gulf. The U.S. and European Union imposed a series of economic sanctions. Moreover, Washington edged closer to military confrontation
with its provision of security assistance to Kiev. Moscow responded by challenging America from Syria to Venezuela.
It also began moving towards China. The two nations' differences are many and their relationship is unstable. However, as long
as their antagonism towards Washington exceeds their discomfort with each other, they will cooperate to block what they see as America's
pursuit of global hegemony.
Why is the U.S. entangled in the Ukrainian imbroglio? During the Cold War, Ukraine was one of the fabled "captive nations," backed
by vigorous advocacy from Ukrainian Americans. After the Soviet Union collapsed, they joined other groups lobbying on behalf of ethnic
brethren to speed NATO's expansion eastward. Security policy turned into a matter of ethnic solidarity, to be pursued irrespective
of cost and risk.
To more traditional hawks who are always seeking an enemy, the issue is less pro-Ukraine than anti-Russia. Mitt Romney, the Republican
Party's 2012 presidential nominee, improbably attacked Russia as America's most dangerous adversary. Hence the GOP's counterproductive
determination to bring Kiev into NATO. Originally Washington saw the transatlantic alliance as a means to confront the Soviet menace;
now it views the pact as a form of charity.
After the Soviet collapse, the U.S. pushed NATO eastward into nations that neither mattered strategically nor could be easily
protected, most notably in the Balkans and Baltics. Even worse were Georgia and Ukraine, security black holes that would bring with
them ongoing conflicts with Russia, possibly triggering a larger war between NATO and Moscow.
Ukraine never had been a matter of U.S. security. For most of America's history, the territory was controlled by either the Russian
Empire or the Soviet Union. Washington's Cold War sympathies represented fraternal concerns, not security essentials. Today, without
Kiev's aid, the U.S. and Europe would still have overwhelming conventional forces to be brought into any conflict with Moscow. However,
adding Ukraine to NATO would increase the risk of a confrontation with a nuclear armed power. Russia's limitations when it comes
to its conventional military would make a resort to nuclear weapons more likely in any conflict.
Nevertheless, George W. Bush's aggressively neoconservative administration won backing for Georgian and Ukrainian membership in
NATO and considered intervening militarily in the Russo-Georgian war. However, European nations that feared conflict with Moscow
blocked plans for NATO expansion, which went into cold storage. Although alliance officials still officially backed membership for
Ukraine, it remains unattainable so long as conflict burns hot with Russia.
In the meantime, Washington has treated Ukraine as a de facto military ally, offering economic and security assistance. The U.S.
has provided $1.5 billion for Ukrainian training and weapons, including anti-tank Javelin missiles. Explained Obama administration
defense secretary Ashton Carter: "Ukraine would never be where it is without that support from the United States."
Equally important, the perception of U.S. backing made the Kiev government, headed by President Petro Poroshenko, less willing
to pursue a diplomatic settlement with Russia. Thus did Ukraine, no less than Russia, almost immediately violate the internationally
backed Minsk accord.
Kiev's role as a political football highlights the need for Washington to pursue an enduring political settlement with Russia.
European governments are growing restless; France has taken the lead in seeking better relations with Moscow. Germany is unhappy
with U.S. attempts to block the planned Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline. In Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelensky has campaigned
to end the conflict.
Negotiators for Russia, Ukraine, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe recently met in Minsk to revive the
agreement previously reached in the Belarus capital. They set an election schedule in the contested east, to be followed by passage
of Ukrainian legislation to grant the region greater autonomy and separatists legal immunity. Despite strong opposition from nationalists,
passage is likely since Zelensky's party holds a solid legislative majority.
Many challenges remain, but the West could aid this process by respecting Russian security concerns. The U.S. and its allies should
formally foreclose Ukraine's membership in the transatlantic alliance and end lethal military aid. After receiving those assurances,
Moscow would be expected to resolve the Donbass conflict, presumably along the lines of Minsk: Ukraine protects local autonomy while
Russia exits the fight. Sanctions against Russia would be lifted. Ukrainians would be left to choose their economic orientation,
since the country would likely be split between east and west for some time to come. The West would accept Russia's control of Crimea
while refusing to formally recognize the conquest -- absent a genuinely independent referendum with independent monitors.
Such a compromise would be controversial. Washington's permanent war lobby would object. Hyper-nationalistic Ukrainians would
double down on calling Zelensky a traitor. Eastern Europeans would complain about appeasing Russia. However, such a compromise would
certainly be better than endless conflict.
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and former special assistant to President Ronald Reagan. He is the author
of Foreign Follies: America's New Global Empire.
I credit Mr. Bandow for his largely fair and accurate description of the events in Ukraine of five years ago, and for his ultimate
policy proposal for the US to extricate itself from its close involvement in the area. However, I'm a little confused by what
exactly the author means by "Moscow's aggressions against Ukraine" and "Putin's brutal response" (aside from the treatment of
dissidents and journalists as he specifically mentioned) to the Maidan Revolution.
Was it aggressive and brutal for Russia to support separatists in the Donbass who were facing the prospect of legal discrimination
and violence by a criminal, neo-fascist government in Kiev, not to mention de-industrialization, the gutting of the agriculture
sector and the forced economic migration of an enormous number of its young workers (assuming that Ukraine's economic deal with
the EU followed the script of every other Easter European's country's deal with the EU)? If Yanukovych had fled to the Donbass
and proclaimed himself still the freely elected (though certainly corrupt) President of the nation, Russia's support for the region
would have even had a shiny brass legal fig leaf, wouldn't it?
As for the supposed "conquest" of Crimea, that's a rather strong word to use considering that all of two members of the Ukrainian
military were killed, and 60-80 of them detained, while 15,000 defected to Russia. Compared to the violence in Kiev and Odessa,
what happened in Crimea almost qualifies as a bloodless coup. But then Mr. Bandow shies away from using the word "hegemony" to
describe the foreign policy of the United States, figuratively putting the word in the mouths of those bad men (which they are)
in Moscow and Beijing. It's a pity that Mr. Bandow felt the need to make linguistic concessions to the foreign policy establishment
in what was otherwise a useful and balanced piece.
Even though the overall idea of ending the sponsoring of the conflict by Washington is plausible there are a number of shortcomings
in the article to put it mildly. I realize though that the author has to make Washington look innocent and Russia look bad to
escape the danger of being stigmatized as a pro-Russian traitor.
I understand why you want to thread the needle. After the invasions, having to add more failure or at the very least recognition
of dysfunction to our foreign policy choices and consequences is a bitter pill. But as you note had the US and the EU seriously
had the desire to add the Ukraine into the western European sphere of influence, they could have offered a better deal on oil
- they didn't.
I think we have got to stop accusing the then existing government of corruption. As your own article states, the history
of unstable governance with accompanying "corruption" seems a staple and nonunique.
And as is the case in developing countries, what we call corruption is a cultural staple of how business and affairs are
conducted. Whatever the issues, the Ukrainian public was not overly beset by the results so as to spontaneously riot.
How the civil unrest spun out of control the second time in ten years, can be linked directly to US and EU involvement.
It is a deeply held belief that democracy is a system that by definition a generally acceptable path forward. That belief is
false as democracy is still comprised of human beings. And democracy in their hands is no "cure all". It can be a turbulent and
jerky bureaucratic maze process that pleases no one and works over time.
The US didn't accomplish it without violence until after more than 130 years, when the native populations were finally subdued.
And as for a system that embodied equal treatment to similar circumstance -- we are still at it. But a violent revolution every
ten years certainly isn't the most effective road to take.
-----------------
Why we insistent on restarting the cold war is unclear to me save that it served to create a kind of strategic global clarity
Though what that means would troublesome because Russia's ole would now be as a developing democratic state as opposed to a communist
monolith. And that means unfettered from her satellites and empowered by more capital markets her role as adversary would be more
adroit. As time after time, Ores Putin has appeared the premier diplomat for peace and stability in situations in which the US
was engaged or encouraging violence.(the Ukraine). I certainly don't think that our relations with Russia or China are a to be
kumbaya love fests, there is still global competition and there's no reason to pretend it would be without tensions. But seriously,
as a democratic/capital market player -- there really was no way to contain Russia.
----------------------
Given what we experienced during 2007 --- corruption comes in a mryiad of guises.
The Ukraine situation is complex to be certain, but ending military aid and letting Russia clean up seems like a bad idea.
This week we saw Russian forces occupy US bases abandoned when Trump ordered our troops to withdraw from the Turkish border.
And now the author is arguing we should do something similar in the Ukraine.
When did Russian appeasement become so important to conservative foreign policy?
Mate, Russians were in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government. US troops are there illegally (no Congress mandate, no
international mandate, no invitation). US is an occupying, destabilizing, terrorist protecting force in Syria and Americans should
look beyond their self esteem before commenting on this "shameful" retreat. US does not have the right to put its troops wherever
it fancies.
This win or loose mentality will be the death of you. Who do you think is threatening the US, when it has the biggest moats
protecting its shores? The only thing that is happening is that the hegemonic role, that of controlling everyone's economy for
its own elites benefit is being denied.
This is what you are complaining mate, the the rich Americans cannot get richer? Do you think they will share with you, or
that, like the good English boys of the past, you will not be able to land a job with East India Co. and despoil the natives for
a while?
If the US were smart then they would lead some sort of negotiation where eastern Europe and Ukraine and Russia were allowed only
mutually agreed defensive weapons systems. A demilitarization of say 200 miles on each side of the Russia border. The strategy
should be to encourage trade between Eastern Europe and Russia where Russia has influence but is not threatening. It may be slow
to build that trust but the real question is whether the US and Europe and NATO want peace with Russia or whether they are using
fear of Russia to keep eastern Europe united with the US and Europe. This may be the case but the future will have China as a
greater threat than Russia (China will even be a threat to Russia). Any shift in Russian relations will take decades of building
trust on both sides.
Good article and excellent history of facts. If I recall during the last Bush administration W hosted a Putin and his then spouse,
at a visit at his ranch. Putin informed W," the Ukraine belongs to Russia. end of sentence.
The author forgot the critical role of Sevastopol in the Crimea. It is Russia's only warm water port and there was no way that
it was going to allow this area to become a NATO naval base. Secretary of State Clinton and her sidekick for Ukraine, Victoria
Nuland should have known this before they started supporting the overthrow of the pro-Russia government in Kiev.
If you look at a historical atlas, you won't find an independent country called Ukraine before 1991. When my parents were born,
near what is now called Lviv, the area was called Galicia and Lemberg was its provincial capital. A gold medal issued in 1916
in honor of Franz Josef's 85th birthday noted that he was the Kaiser of Austria, Hungary, Galicia and Lodomeria.
When the old Soviet Union agreed to allow East and West Germany to reunify, it was with the understanding that NATO would not
extend membership to former Soviet block countries and that there would be no NATO bases in these areas either. NATO and the US
broke their oral commitment to Russia a few years later.
The US should get out of the business of trying to spread democracy in third world countries and interfering in the affairs
of foreign governments. We can't afford to be the policeman of the world. We don't even have the ability to make many of our own
central cities safe for Americans. Think Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans and Detroit, all four of which appear on Wikipedia's
list of the 50 murder capitals of the world (per thousand population).
"... Note this key excerpt from the letter of transmittal: ..."
"... " Mutual assistance available under the Treaty includes: taking of testimony or statements of persons; providing documents, records, and articles of evidence; serving documents; locating or identifying persons; transferring persons in custody for testimony or other purposes; executing requests for searches and seizures; assisting in proceedings related to restraint, confiscation, forfeiture of assets, restitution, and collection of fines; and any other form of assistance not prohibited by the laws of the requested state. " ..."
"... The Treaty was reported favourable by the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on September 27, 2000, consented to ratification by the Senate on October 18, 2000 and ratified by the President of the United States on January 5, 2001. The Treaty was entered into force on February 27, 2001. Here are the title page of the Treaty and the signature page: ..."
"... With this background and while I don't want to appear to be pro- or anti-Trump, it is very, very clear that the current POTUS was within the law under the Treaty on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters between the United States and Ukraine when it comes to asking Ukraine to investigate a potential criminal matter. ..."
With the Trump impeachment procedures ongoing and the connection to his conversation about the
Biden family with Ukraine President Zelenskyy, there has been very little coverage of an
important aspect of the relationship between Washington and Kiev. While none of us can speak to
the actual intent of Donald Trump's remarks be it for personal gain or for other reasons, there
is background information that may help illuminate the context of the discussion between the
two world leaders.
In case you haven't read the pertinent section of the transcript of the conversation, here it
is:
" President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that
you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any
future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the
United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States
and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard
on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him
having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate
even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just
recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we
will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody
but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most
experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you
Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also
plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as
the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I
can assure you.
President Trump: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good
and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way
they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr.
Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I
would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy
very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that
would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the
people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that.
The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution
and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney
General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you
can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all,
I understand and I'm knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute
majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate,
who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or
she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue.
The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the
honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top
of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to
us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in
our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall
her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad
ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she
admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new
President well enough.
President Trump: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr.
Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get
to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very
badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to
get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many
Ukrainian friends, their incredible people." (my bolds)
Now, let's look back in time to 1998. On July 22, 1998, a treaty was signed between Ukraine and
Washington.
The Treaty on Mutual Legal
Assistance in Criminal Matters was signed in Kiev on the aforementioned date. Here is an
excerpt from the The original letter of submittal from the Department of State to the
President's office dated October 19, 1999 which states the following:
"I have the honor to submit to you the Treaty between the United States of America and
Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters with Annex (``the Treaty''), signed at
Kiev on July 22, 1998. I recommend that the Treaty be transmitted to the Senate for its advice
and consent to ratification. Also enclosed, for the information of the Senate, is an exchange of notes under which the
Treaty is being provisionally applied to the extent possible under our respective domestic
laws, in order to provide a basis for immediate mutual assistance in criminal matters.
Provisional application would cease upon entry into force of the Treaty.
The Treaty covers mutual legal assistance in criminal matters. In recent years, similar
bilateral treaties have entered into force with a number of other countries. The Treaty with
Ukraine contains all essential provisions sought by the United States. It will enhance our
ability to investigate and prosecute a range of offenses.The Treaty is designed to
be self-executing and will not require new legislation." (my bold)
The Treaty was then transmitted by the President of the United States (Bill Clinton) to the
Senate on November 10, 1999 (Treaty Document 106-16 -106th Congress - First Session) as shown
on this letter of
transmittal from Bill Clinton's office:
Note this key excerpt from the letter of transmittal:
" Mutual assistance available under the Treaty includes: taking of testimony or
statements of persons; providing documents, records, and articles of evidence; serving
documents; locating or identifying persons; transferring persons in custody for testimony or
other purposes; executing requests for searches and seizures; assisting in proceedings related
to restraint, confiscation, forfeiture of assets, restitution, and collection of fines; and any
other form of assistance not prohibited by the laws of the requested state. "
The Treaty was reported favourable by the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on September
27, 2000, consented to ratification by the Senate on October 18, 2000 and ratified by the
President of the United States on January 5, 2001. The Treaty was entered into force on
February 27, 2001. Here are the title page of the Treaty and the signature page:
Here are the first two pages of the Treaty which outline the scope of assistance that is to
be offered by both nations as well as the limitations on assistance:
... ... ...
If you wish to read the Treaty in its entirety, please click
here .
With this background and while I don't want to appear to be pro- or anti-Trump, it is very,
very clear that the current POTUS was within the law under the Treaty on Mutual Legal
Assistance in Criminal Matters between the United States and Ukraine when it comes to asking
Ukraine to investigate a potential criminal matter.
"... Burisma is now a worthless shell company and vlochevsky sells his interest to kolomoiski who continues the fine tradition of money laundering by funneling over 100 million to poroshenko and the bidens for who knows what sinister purpose. ..."
"... Maybe this is the key to understanding the "advice" consigliere hunter Biden gave to the oligarch Mafioso, besides giving a veneer of respectability to Burisma to prevent pesky investigators from sticking their noses into cosa nostra. ..."
My take on Burisma: Vlochevsky corruptly collected a slew of gas licenses using the influence
of his office as energy minister. He sells the licenses making a personal fortune.
Then he sets up Sunrise energy, disguising his ownership with a labyrinth of shell
companies.
He launders his ill gotten gains through burisma by purchasing sunrise energy from
himself. Sunrise energy goes out of business having exhausted its already depleted EP gas
fields.
Burisma is now a worthless shell company and vlochevsky sells his interest to kolomoiski
who continues the fine tradition of money laundering by funneling over 100 million to
poroshenko and the bidens for who knows what sinister purpose.
Maybe this is the key to understanding the "advice" consigliere hunter Biden gave to the
oligarch Mafioso, besides giving a veneer of respectability to Burisma to prevent pesky
investigators from sticking their noses into cosa nostra.
In addition to the fired Shokin's claim that President Poroshenko warned him not to
investigate Burisma because it was not in the Bidens' interest, the notes say, the prosecutor
also said he "was warned to stop" by the then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey R. Pyatt .
The State Department declined to explain this assertion about Pyatt, who was ambassador to
Ukraine from 2013 to 2016 and now is Ambassador to Greece. The Biden presidential campaign did
not respond to a request for comment.
Recounting Shokin's version of events, the notes say he "was called into Mr. Poroshenko's
office and told that the investigation into Burisma and the Managing Director where Hunter
Biden is on the board, has caused Joe Biden to hold up one billion dollars in U.S. aid to
Ukraine." Poroshenko later told Shokin that "he had to be fired as the aid to the Ukraine was
being withheld by Joe Biden," the Giuliani interview notes say.
Trump has claimed that Vice
President Biden pressured the Ukrainian government to fire Shokin because he was investigating
his son's employer.
"I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really
unfair," the president said, referring to Shokin in his July 25 phone call with Ukraine's
president, Volodymyr Zelensky. That call triggered the current impeachment crisis after a CIA
whistleblower alleged that Trump had pressured the Ukrainian leader to investigate Biden in
return for military aid.
A Politico
investigation in 2017 found that officials in Poroshenko's government helped Hillary
Clinton allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, notably Paul Manafort,
who before joining the Trump campaign was a political consultant for ousted Ukrainian President
Viktor Yanukovych.
Poroshenko's administration insisted at the time that Ukraine stayed neutral in the
race.
"... Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually its founder and owner Mr Nicolai Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners into the company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's appetites. He had brought in Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it didn't help him. ..."
"... Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney General Shokin to investigate Burisma trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and 150 thousand dollar per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the Ukrainian tax code; it can't be recognised as legitimate expenditure. ..."
"... These [neoliberal] politicians are the absolute dregs of our society. Human cesspits. They make the pirates of old look like kindergarten. And they mass murder to get the loot. ..."
"... Author does not mention approx 40 tons of gold transferred to US at night, covered lorries, darkened airfield. Coincidentally just a few hours before MH370 went missing ..."
"... Implementation of Western values and democracy cost Libia more than 134 ton of gold. Not including shares and valuable papers..How democracy working in Libya? ..."
"... Regarding the Ukraine, about 12 oligarch holding of 60% of the wealth.Today the Ukrainian oligarch have to pay USA democrats oligarch for protection. Whatever who is Ukraine President-they must to pay to USA.Ukraine today is like banana republic :Honduras or Guatemala with 60% of population living below poverty line. Just do the homework all of you readers. ..."
"... All Democrats and RINO's who are currently participating in the impeachment hoax in order to keep themselves from being indicted, prosecuted, and imprisoned for their parts in this corruption are automatically guilty of obstruction of justice, because that's exactly what they're doing. ..."
"... She was never supposed to lose. ..."
"... DNC types always show up at these poor countries to plunder them. Haiti: Clinton Foundation. Ukraine: Clinton Foundation. Ukraine: Biden Family foundation. ..."
Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one.
During the Obama presidency, Biden was the US proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised
transfer of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of the Ukraine; the money was stolen,
and Biden took a big share of the spoils.
It is a story of ripping the US taxpayer and the Ukrainian customer off for the benefit of a few corruptioners, American and
Ukrainian. And it is a story of Kiev regime and its dependence on the US and IMF. The Ukraine has a few midsize deposits of natural
gas, sufficient for domestic household consumption. The cost of its production was quite low; and the Ukrainians got used to pay
pennies for their gas. Actually, it was so cheap to produce that the Ukraine could provide all its households with free gas for
heating and cooking, just like Libya did. Despite low consumer price, the gas companies (like Burisma) had very high profits and
very little expenditure.
After the 2014 coup, IMF demanded to raise the price of gas for the domestic consumer to European levels, and the new president
Petro Poroshenko obliged them. The prices went sky-high. The Ukrainians were forced to pay many times more for their cooking and
heating; and huge profits went to coffers of the gas companies. Instead of raising taxes or lowering prices, President Poroshenko
demanded the gas companies to pay him or subsidise his projects. He said that he arranged the price hike; it means he should be
considered a partner.
Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually its founder and owner Mr Nicolai
Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners into the company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's
appetites. He had brought in Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it didn't help him.
Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney General Shokin to investigate Burisma
trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and
150 thousand dollar per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the Ukrainian tax code; it can't
be recognised as legitimate expenditure.
At that time Biden the father entered the fray. He called Poroshenko and gave him six hours to close the case against his son.
Otherwise, one billion dollars of the US taxpayers' funds won't pass to the Ukrainian corruptioners. Zlochevsky, the Burisma owner,
paid Biden well for this conversation: he received between three and ten million dollars, according to different sources.
AG Shokin said he can't close the case within six hours; Poroshenko sacked him and installed Mr Lutsenko in his stead. Lutsenko
was willing to dismiss the case of Burisma, but he also could not do it in a day, or even in a week. Biden, as we know, could
not keep his trap shut: by talking about the pressure he put on Poroshenko, he incriminated himself. Meanwhile Mr Shokin gave
evidence that Biden put pressure on Poroshenko to fire him, and now it was confirmed. The evidence was given to the US lawyers
in connection with another case, Firtash case.
... ... ...
This is not the only case of US-connected corruption in Ukraine. There is
Amos J. Hochstein, a protege of former VP Joe Biden, who has served
in the Barack Obama administration as the Assistant Secretary of State for Energy Resources. He still hangs on the Ukraine.
Together with an American citizen Andrew Favorov, the Deputy Director
of Naftogas he organised very expensive "reverse gas import" into Ukraine. In this scheme, the Russian gas is bought by
Europeans and afterwards sold to Ukraine with a wonderful margin. In reality, gas comes from Russia directly, but payments go
via Hochstein. It is much more costly than to buy directly from Russia; Ukrainian people pay, while the margin is collected
by Hochstein and Favorov. Now they plan to import liquefied gas from the United States, at even higher price. Again, the price
will be paid by the Ukrainians, while profits will go to Hochstein and Favorov.
In all these scams, there are people of Clinton and spooks who are fully integrated in the Democratic Party.
A former head of CIA, Robert James Woolsey, now sits on the Board of Directors of Velta,
producing Ukrainian titanium. Woolsey is a neocon, a member of the
Project for the New American Century (PNAC),
pro-Israel think-tank, and a man who relentlessly pushed for Iraq war. A typical Democrat spook, now he gets profits from Ukrainian
ore deposits.
One of the best Ukrainian corruption stories is connected with
Audrius Butkevicius, the former Minister of Defence (1996
to 2000) and a Member of the Seimas (Parliament) of post-Soviet Lithuania. Mr AB is supposedly working for MI6, and now
is a member of the notorious Institute for Statecraft, a UK
deep state propaganda outfit involved in disinformation operations, subversion of the democratic process and promoting
Russophobia and the idea of a new cold war. In 1991 he commanded snipers that shoot Lithuanian protesters. The kills were ascribed
to the Soviet armed forces, and the last Soviet President Mr Gorbachev ordered speedy withdrawal of his troops from Lithuania.
Mr AB became the Minister of Defence of his independent nation. In 1997 the Honourable Minister of Defence "had requested 300,000
USD from a senior executive of a troubled oil company for his assistance in obtaining the discontinuance of criminal proceedings
concerning the company's vast debts", in the language of the court judgement. He was arrested on receipt of the bribe, had been
sentenced to five years of jail, but a man with such qualifications was not left to rot in a prison.
In 2005 he commanded the snipers who killed protesters in Kyrgyzstan, in Georgia he repeated the feat in 2003 during the Rose
Revolution. In 2014 he did it again in Kiev, where his snipers killed around a hundred men, protesters and police. He was brought
to Kiev by Mr Turchinov, who called himself the "acting President" and who countersigned Joe Biden's billion dollars' grant.
In October 2018 the name of Mr AB came up again. Military warehouses of Chernigov had caught fire; allegedly
thousands of shells stored for fighting the separatists had been destroyed by fire. And it was not the first fire of this kind:
the previous one, equally huge, torched Ukrainian army warehouses in Vinnitsa in 2017. Altogether, there were 12 huge army arsenal
fires for the last few years. Just for 2018, the damage was over $2 billion.
When Chief Military Prosecutor of Ukraine Anatoly Matios
investigated the fires, he discovered that 80% of weapons and shells in the warehouses were missing. They weren't destroyed
by fire, they weren't there in the first place. Instead of being used to kill the Russian-speaking Ukrainians of Donetsk, the
hardware had been shipped from the port of Nikolaev to Syria, to the Islamic rebels and to ISIS. And the man who organised this
enormous operation was our Mr AB, the old fighter for democracy on behalf of MI6, acting in cahoots with the Minister of Defence
Poltorak and Mr Turchinov, the friend of Mr Biden. (They say Mr Matios
was given $10 million for his silence).
The loss was of Ukrainian people, and of US taxpayers, while the beneficiaries were the Deep State, which is probably
just another name for the deadly mix of spooks, media and politicians.
The Plundering Of Ukraine By Corrupt American Democrats. Whats new. The plundering of Syria - the Golan. Genie oil - Every
leading democrat name is on that Shareholder's list. Plundering of Serbia. Kosovo, its Gold mines and Minerals. Speciality per
Madeleine Albright . Wesley Clark and the Clintons. Sniff around where the Libyan gold went....not Fort Knox
These [neoliberal] politicians are the absolute dregs of our society. Human cesspits. They make the pirates of old look
like kindergarten. And they mass murder to get the loot.
Author does not mention approx 40 tons of gold transferred to US at night, covered lorries, darkened airfield. Coincidentally
just a few hours before MH370 went missing .
Implementation of Western values and democracy cost Libia more than 134 ton of gold. Not including shares and valuable
papers..How democracy working in Libya?
Fantastic article. Thanks for Israel. Thanks God, whatever you believe or not, majority of the World citizens are good and
friendly. Were did not nuke each other despite 1% of our corrupted elites. They hold about 90% of media, can give Hollywood Oscar
Price or Nobel Price to my lovely dog. If I paid them.
Regarding the Ukraine, about 12 oligarch holding of 60% of the wealth.Today
the Ukrainian oligarch have to pay USA democrats oligarch for protection. Whatever who is Ukraine President-they must to pay
to USA.Ukraine today is like banana republic :Honduras or Guatemala with 60% of population living below poverty line. Just do
the homework all of you readers.
You will NOT see once micron of this on the lame stream Media.....nor out of the mouths of Dems anywhere.....THIS info if true
should ensure the Dem corrupt Party is dissolved and a new one using pro-USA model is erected.
That we have seen little of this story in the Wall Street Journal nor Fox News shows just who controls those networks for sure.....This
story MUST become a part of the Congressional record....ASAP.....and ALL these folks no matter which Party MUST be held accountable
for lost US Funds...OUR TAX DOLLARS. Imagine what could be done with 3 BILLION for OUR Vets or the homeless......yet you see little
exposure of this corruption any where in US papers or even conservative outfits...????
All Democrats and RINO's who are currently participating in the impeachment hoax in order to keep themselves from being
indicted, prosecuted, and imprisoned for their parts in this corruption are automatically guilty of obstruction of justice, because
that's exactly what they're doing.
DNC types always show up at these poor countries to plunder them. Haiti: Clinton Foundation. Ukraine: Clinton Foundation.
Ukraine: Biden Family foundation.
Corrupt American Democrats AND Corrupt American Republicans . . . who gave Standing Ovations in Washington, District of Columbia,
United States Capitol for the Murders and Burning Humans Alive. United States President Trump never received 5 minute Standing
Ovations in Washington, District of Columbia, United States Capitol by the Capitalist Political Party composed of two factions:
Corrupt American Republicans AND Corrupt American Democrats.
So Shamir says that Tsarev is claiming Daniluk is the "whistleblower"? A foreigner can be a whistleblower?
And " Daniluk was supposed to accompany President Zelensky on his visit to Washington; but he was informed that there is an
order for his arrest. He remained in Kiev." ?? An order to arrest Daniluk in Washington, is that the claim? Why and who would
arrest him in Washington?
We would all be better off, including the Ukrainians, if they had stayed with Russia, where they were.
Money quote: “Top Dems are involved in the plundering of the Ukraine: new names, mind-boggling accounts."
Notable quotes:
"... Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one. During the Obama presidency, Biden was the US proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised transfer of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of the Ukraine; the money was stolen, and Biden took a big share of the spoils. ..."
"... Two years ago, (that is already under President Trump) the United States began to investigate the allocation of 3 billion dollars; it was allocated in 2014, in 2015, in 2016; one billion dollars per year. The investigation showed that the documents were falsified, the money was transferred to Ukraine, and stolen. The investigators tracked each payment, discovered where the money went, where it was spent and how it was stolen. ..."
"... The money was allocated with the flagrant violation of American law. There was no risk assessment, no audit reports. Normally the USAID, when allocating cash, always prepares a substantial package of documents. But the billions were given to Ukraine completely without documents. The criminal case on the embezzlement of USAID funds had been signed personally by the US Attorney General, so these issues are very much alive. ..."
"... Poroshenko was aware of that; he gave orders to declare Sam Kislin persona non grata. Once the old man (he is over 80) flew into Kiev airport and he was not allowed to come in; he spent the night in detention and was flown back to the US next day. Poroshenko had been totally allied with Clinton camp. ..."
"... In all these scams, there are people of Clinton and spooks who are fully integrated in the Democratic Party. A former head of CIA, Robert James Woolsey, now sits on the Board of Directors of Velta , producing Ukrainian titanium. Woolsey is a neocon, a member of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), pro-Israel think-tank, and a man who relentlessly pushed for Iraq war. A typical Democrat spook, now he gets profits from Ukrainian ore deposits. ..."
"... The loss was of Ukrainian people, and of US taxpayers, while the beneficiaries were the Deep State, which is probably just another name for the deadly mix of spooks, media and politicians. ..."
"... The globalist criminal elites will not be held responsible for any of these crimes. They're bound together by ties of blackmail forged by guys like Epstein, mutually assured incrimination in serial swindles which cross Left and Right political boundaries and literal murder in the case of guys like Seth Rich. ..."
"... If they were only stealing money it would be bad enough, but the fact that these same grifters are our "diplomats" and warmakers is positively Orwellian. Watching these petty hoodlums play nuclear chicken with Russia so they can squeeze more shekels from the supine Ukraine would be laughable if I could get the first-strike nightmares of my Cold War childhood out of my head long enough to laugh. ..."
A talk with Oleg Tsarev reveals the alleged identity of the "Trump/Ukraine Whistleblower"
Israel Shamir October
25, 2019 2,400 Words 6 Comments Reply
Top Dems are involved in the plundering of the Ukraine: new names, mind-boggling accounts.
The mysterious 'whistleblower' whose report had unleashed the impeachment is named in the
exclusive interview given to the Unz Review by a prominent Ukrainian politician, an
ex-Member of Parliament of four terms, a candidate for Ukraine's presidency, Oleg Tsarev.
Mr Tsarev, a tall, agile and graceful man, a good speaker and a prolific writer, had been a
leading and popular Ukrainian politician before the 2014 putsch; he stayed in the Ukraine after
President Yanukovych's flight; ran for the Presidency against Mr Poroshenko, and eventually had
to go to exile due to multiple threats to his life. During the failed attempt to secede, he was
elected the speaker of the Parliament of Novorossia (South-Eastern Ukraine). I spoke to him in
Crimea, where he lives in the pleasant seaside town of Yalta. Tsarev still has many supporters
in the Ukraine, and is a leader of the opposition to the Kiev regime.
Oleg, you followed Biden story from its very inception. Biden is not the only Dem
politician involved in the Ukrainian corruption schemes, is he?
Indeed, John Kerry, the Secretary of State in Obama's administration, was his
partner-in-crime. But Joe Biden was number one. During the Obama presidency, Biden was the US
proconsul for Ukraine, and he was involved in many corruption schemes. He authorised transfer
of three billion dollars of the US taxpayers' money to the post-coup government of the Ukraine;
the money was stolen, and Biden took a big share of the spoils.
It is a story of ripping the US taxpayer and the Ukrainian customer off for the benefit of a
few corruptioners, American and Ukrainian. And it is a story of Kiev regime and its dependence
on the US and IMF. The Ukraine has a few midsize deposits of natural gas, sufficient for
domestic household consumption. The cost of its production was quite low; and the Ukrainians
got used to pay pennies for their gas. Actually, it was so cheap to produce that the Ukraine
could provide all its households with free gas for heating and cooking, just like Libya did.
Despite low consumer price, the gas companies (like Burisma) had very high profits and very
little expenditure.
After the 2014 coup, IMF demanded to raise the price of gas for the domestic consumer to
European levels, and the new president Petro Poroshenko obliged them. The prices went sky-high.
The Ukrainians were forced to pay many times more for their cooking and heating; and huge
profits went to coffers of the gas companies. Instead of raising taxes or lowering prices,
President Poroshenko demanded the gas companies to pay him or subsidise his projects. He said
that he arranged the price hike; it means he should be considered a partner.
Burisma Gas company had to pay extortion money to the president Poroshenko. Eventually its
founder and owner Mr Nicolai Zlochevsky decided to invite some important Westerners into the
company's board of directors hoping it would moderate Poroshenko's appetites. He had brought in
Biden's son Hunter, John Kerry, Polish ex-President Kwasniewski; but it didn't help him.
Poroshenko became furious that the fattened calf may escape him, and asked the Attorney
General Shokin to investigate Burisma trusting some irregularities would emerge. AG Shokin
immediately discovered that Burisma had paid these 'stars' between 50 and 150 thousand dollar
per month each just for being on the list of directors. This is illegal by the Ukrainian tax
code; it can't be recognised as legitimate expenditure.
At that time Biden the father entered the fray. He called Poroshenko and gave him six hours
to close the case against his son. Otherwise, one billion dollars of the US taxpayers' funds
won't pass to the Ukrainian corruptioners. Zlochevsky, the Burisma owner, paid Biden well for
this conversation: he received between three and ten million dollars, according to different
sources.
AG Shokin said he can't close the case within six hours; Poroshenko sacked him and installed
Mr Lutsenko in his stead. Lutsenko was willing to dismiss the case of Burisma, but he also
could not do it in a day, or even in a week. Biden, as we know, could not keep his trap shut:
by talking about the pressure he put on Poroshenko, he incriminated himself. Meanwhile Mr
Shokin gave evidence that Biden put pressure on Poroshenko to fire him, and now it was
confirmed. The evidence was given to the US lawyers in connection with another case, Firtash
case.
What is Firtash Case?
The Democrats wanted to get another Ukrainian oligarch, Mr Firtash, to the US and make him
to confess that he illegally supported Trump's campaign for the sake of Russia. Firtash had
been arrested in Vienna, Austria; there he fought extradition to the US. His lawyers claimed it
is purely political case, and they used Mr Shokin's deposition to substantiate their claim. For
this reason, the evidence supplied by Shokin is not easily reversible, even if Shokin were
willing, and he is not. He also stated under oath that the Democrats pressurised him to help
and extradite Firtash to the US, though he had no standing in this purely American issue. It
seems that Mrs Clinton believes that Firtash's funds helped Trump to win elections, an
extremely unlikely thing [says Mr Tsarev].
Talking about Burisma and Biden; what is this billion dollars of aid that Biden could
give or withhold?
It is USAID money, the main channel of the US aid for "support of democracy". First billion
dollars of USAID came to the Ukraine in 2014. This was authorised by Joe Biden, while for
Ukraine, the papers were signed by Mr Turchinov, the "acting President". The Ukrainian
constitution does not know of such a position, and Turchinov, "the acting President" had no
right to sign neither a legal nor financial document. Thus, all the documents that were signed
by him, in fact, had no legal force. However, Biden countersigned the papers signed by
Turchynov and allocated money for Ukraine. And the money was stolen – by the Democrats
and their Ukrainian counterparts.
Two years ago, (that is already under President Trump) the United States began to
investigate the allocation of 3 billion dollars; it was allocated in 2014, in 2015, in 2016;
one billion dollars per year. The investigation showed that the documents were falsified, the
money was transferred to Ukraine, and stolen. The investigators tracked each payment,
discovered where the money went, where it was spent and how it was stolen.
As a result, in October 2018, the U.S. Department of Justice opened a criminal case for
"Abuse of power and embezzlement of American taxpayers' money". Among the accused there are two
consecutive Finance Ministers of the Ukraine, Mrs Natalie Ann Jaresko who served 2014-2016 and
Mr Alexander Daniluk who served 2016-2018, and three US banks. The investigation caused the
USAID to cease issuing grants since August 2019. As Trump said, now the US does not give away
money and does not impose democracy.
The money was allocated with the flagrant violation of American law. There was no risk
assessment, no audit reports. Normally the USAID, when allocating cash, always prepares a
substantial package of documents. But the billions were given to Ukraine completely without
documents. The criminal case on the embezzlement of USAID funds had been signed personally by
the US Attorney General, so these issues are very much alive.
Sam Kislin was involved in this investigation. He is a good friend and associate of
Giuliani, Trump's lawyer and an ex-mayor of New York. Kislin is well known in Kiev, and I have
many friends who are Sam's friends [said Tsarev]. I learned of his progress, because some of my
friends were detained in the United States, or interrogated in Ukraine. They briefed me about
this. It appears that Burisma is just the tip of the scandal, the tip of the iceberg. If Trump
will carry on, and use what was already initiated and investigated, the whole headquarters of
the Democratic party will come down. They will not be able to hold elections. I have no right
to name names, but believe me, leading functionaries of the Democratic party are involved.
Poroshenko was aware of that; he gave orders to declare Sam Kislin persona non grata. Once
the old man (he is over 80) flew into Kiev airport and he was not allowed to come in; he spent
the night in detention and was flown back to the US next day. Poroshenko had been totally
allied with Clinton camp.
And President Zelensky? Is he free from Clintonite Democrats' influence?
If he were, there would not be the scandal of Trump phone call. How the Democrats learned of
this call and its alleged content? The official version says there was a CIA man, a
whistle-blower, who reported to the Democrats. What the version does not clarify, where this
whistle-blower was located during the call. I tell you, he was located in Kiev, and he was
present at the conversation, at the Ukrainian President Zelensky's side. This man was (perhaps)
a CIA asset, but he also was a close associate of George Soros, and a Ukrainian high-ranking
official. His name is Mr Alexander Daniluk . He is also the man
the investigation of Sam Kislin and of the DoJ had led to, the Finance Minister of Ukraine at
the time, the man who was responsible for the embezzlement of three billion US taxpayer's best
dollars. The DoJ issued an order for his arrest. Naturally he is devoted to Biden personally,
and to the Dems in general. I would not trust his version of the phone call at all.
Daniluk was supposed to accompany President Zelensky on his visit to Washington; but he was
informed that there is an order for his arrest. He remained in Kiev. And soon afterwards, the
hell of the alleged leaked phone call broke out. Zelensky administration investigated and
concluded that the leak was done by Mr Alexander Daniluk, who is known for his close relations
with George Soros and with Mr Biden. Alexander Daniluk had been fired. (However, he did not
admit his guilt and said the leak was done by his sworn enemy, the head of president's
administration office, Mr Andrey Bogdan , who allegedly framed
Daniluk.)
This is not the only case of US-connected corruption in Ukraine. There is Amos J. Hochstein , a protege of former
VP Joe Biden, who has served in the Barack Obama administration as the Assistant Secretary of
State for Energy Resources. He still hangs on the Ukraine. Together with an American citizen
Andrew Favorov
, the Deputy Director of Naftogas he organised very expensive "reverse gas import" into
Ukraine. In this scheme, the Russian gas is bought by Europeans and afterwards sold to Ukraine
with a wonderful margin. In reality, gas comes from Russia directly, but payments go via
Hochstein. It is much more costly than to buy directly from Russia; Ukrainian people pay, while
the margin is collected by Hochstein and Favorov. Now they plan to import liquefied gas from
the United States, at even higher price. Again, the price will be paid by the Ukrainians, while
profits will go to Hochstein and Favorov.
In all these scams, there are people of Clinton and spooks who are fully integrated in the
Democratic Party. A former head of CIA, Robert James Woolsey, now sits on the Board of
Directors of Velta , producing Ukrainian
titanium. Woolsey is a neocon, a member of the Project for the New
American Century (PNAC), pro-Israel think-tank, and a man who relentlessly pushed for Iraq
war. A typical Democrat spook, now he gets profits from Ukrainian ore deposits.
One of the best Ukrainian corruption stories is connected with Audrius Butkevicius , the former
Minister of Defence (1996 to 2000) and a Member of the Seimas (Parliament) of post-Soviet
Lithuania. Mr AB is supposedly working for MI6, and now is a member of the notorious Institute for
Statecraft , a UK deep state propaganda outfit involved in disinformation operations,
subversion of the democratic process and promoting Russophobia and the idea of a new cold war.
In 1991 he commanded snipers that shoot Lithuanian protesters. The kills were ascribed to the
Soviet armed forces, and the last Soviet President Mr Gorbachev ordered speedy withdrawal of
his troops from Lithuania. Mr AB became the Minister of Defence of his independent nation. In
1997 the Honourable Minister of Defence "had requested 300,000 USD from a senior executive of a
troubled oil company for his assistance in obtaining the discontinuance of criminal proceedings
concerning the company's vast debts", in the language of the court judgement. He was arrested
on receipt of the bribe, had been sentenced to five years of jail, but a man with such
qualifications was not left to rot in a prison.
In 2005 he commanded the snipers who killed protesters in Kyrgyzstan, in Georgia he repeated
the feat in 2003 during the Rose Revolution. In 2014 he did it again in Kiev, where his snipers
killed around a hundred men, protesters and police. He was brought to Kiev by Mr Turchinov, who
called himself the "acting President" and who countersigned Joe Biden's billion dollars'
grant.
In October 2018 the name of Mr AB came up again. Military warehouses of Chernigov had caught
fire; allegedly thousands of shells stored for fighting the separatists had been destroyed by
fire. And it was not the first fire of this kind: the previous one, equally huge, torched
Ukrainian army warehouses in Vinnitsa in 2017. Altogether, there were 12 huge army arsenal
fires for the last few years. Just for 2018, the damage was over $2 billion.
When Chief Military Prosecutor of Ukraine Anatoly Matios investigated the fires, he
discovered that 80% of weapons and shells in the warehouses were missing. They weren't
destroyed by fire, they weren't there in the first place. Instead of being used to kill the
Russian-speaking Ukrainians of Donetsk, the hardware had been shipped from the port of Nikolaev
to Syria, to the Islamic rebels and to ISIS. And the man who organised this enormous operation
was our Mr AB, the old fighter for democracy on behalf of MI6, acting in cahoots with the
Minister of Defence Poltorak and Mr Turchinov, the friend of Mr
Biden. (They say Mr Matios was given $10 million for his silence).
The loss was of Ukrainian people, and of US taxpayers, while the beneficiaries were the Deep
State, which is probably just another name for the deadly mix of spooks, media and
politicians.
The globalist criminal elites will not be held responsible for any of these crimes. They're
bound together by ties of blackmail forged by guys like Epstein, mutually assured
incrimination in serial swindles which cross Left and Right political boundaries and literal
murder in the case of guys like Seth Rich. The cozy proximity of recently-murdered Epstein
himself to crypto-converso AG Barr's family only makes me more certain that they will get
away with this heist like they've done with dozens of other billion-dollar swindles.
If they were only stealing money it would be bad enough, but the fact that these same
grifters are our "diplomats" and warmakers is positively Orwellian. Watching these petty
hoodlums play nuclear chicken with Russia so they can squeeze more shekels from the supine
Ukraine would be laughable if I could get the first-strike nightmares of my Cold War
childhood out of my head long enough to laugh.
Who will hold then responsible? The country appears to have been entirely taken over by
crookish spooks and politicians.
The US is now confirmed as a cleptocracy.
Ukraine is corrupted by outsiders (those who are not Ukrainian/Russian). In past centuries
there was a simple but effective answer to foreigners corrupting their country. The Cossacks
would sharpen up their sabres. saddle up their horses and have a slaughter. It was effective
then and would be effective today. Get rid of those who are not Slavic.
Looks like a testimony of a member of Nuland neocons clique.
A reasonable Trump administration gesture of delaying military aid now is interpreted as a
pressure on Zelensky government. But not everybody in Zelensky government is interesting in the
USA military aid; most including probably Zelensky himself understand that this carrot s the way
US neocon push Ukraine in self-destructive game of to catching hot potatoes from the fire to
advance the USA strategic anti-Russian interests in the region.
Trump is right that Ukraine participated in Russiagate, but he is wrong that Poroshenko
administration acted as a supplementary force in Russiagate on its own initiative: in reality
Poroshenko was the USA marionette fully controlled from Washington and would do anything to
please Obama administration.
Notable quotes:
"... "He said that Ukraine was a corrupt country, full of 'terrible people.' He said they 'tried to take me down.' ..."
"Second, in May of this year, I became concerned that a negative narrative about Ukraine,
fueled by assertions made by Ukraine's departing Prosecutor General, was reaching the President
of the United States, and impeding our ability to support the new Ukrainian government as
robustly as I believed we should."
"Fifth and finally, I strongly supported the provision of U.S. security assistance,
including lethal defensive weapons, to Ukraine throughout my tenure."
...While Volker said Biden did not come up explicitly in his conversations, he made a point
of defending the former vice president in his remarks. "I have known former Vice President
Biden for 24 years, and the suggestion that he would be influenced in his duties as Vice
President by money for his son simply has no credibility to me," he wrote. "I know him as a man
of integrity and dedication to our country."
... ... ...
Volker also testified that while he was aware that the Trump administration
had put a hold on needed military aid to Ukraine at the same time that he was connecting
Giuliani with Zelensky's government, "I did not perceive these issues to be linked in any way."
Volker said that "no reason was given" for the holdup, but it concerned him; he "stressed"
to staff at the State Department, the Pentagon, and the National Security Council that the aid
was vital to Ukraine's security, "deterrence of Russian aggression," and Ukraine's relationship
with the US.
"That said, I was not overly concerned about the development because I believed the decision
would ultimately be reversed," Volker told Congress, citing the "unanimous position" of
Congress, the State Department, the Pentagon, and the NSC in favor of restoring the aid. "I
knew it would just be a matter of time."
...On his contacts with Rudy Giuliani, Volker said he became aware early this year about "an
emerging, negative narrative about Ukraine in the United States, fueled by accusations made by
the then–prosecutor general of Ukraine, Yuriy Lutsenko, that some Ukrainian citizens may
have sought to influence" the 2016 presidential election in the US, "including by passing
information that was detrimental to" Trump, which they hoped would reach Hillary Clinton's
campaign.
"I believed that these accusations by Mr. Lutsenko were themselves self-serving, intended to
make himself appear valuable to the United States, so that the United States might weigh in
against his being removed from office by the new government," Volker said.
...Volker told Congress that he learned in May this year that Giuliani planned to travel to
Ukraine to look into the unsubstantiated allegations that Biden had used his position as vice
president to benefit his son Hunter Biden. Volker said he contacted Giuliani to say that
Lutsenko was not credible -- Volker said they had a brief phone call, but didn't say how
Giuliani responded. Giuliani later canceled his trip. Volker noted that Giuliani claimed at the
time that Zelensky was surrounded "by enemies of the United States," a sentiment that Volker
said he "fundamentally disagreed" with.
...Giuliani came up repeatedly in Volker's conversations with Zelensky and the Ukrainian
president's administration. Volker said he had a private conversation with Zelensky in early
July, and told Zelensky that a "negative view" of Ukraine -- one that Giuliani held -- was
"likely making its way to" Trump. A week later, Volker met with Yermak, the Zelensky aide, who
asked to be connected to Giuliani.
...
Volker also testified to Congress that he met with Trump in May and suggested that
the president invite Zelensky to the White House, arguing Zelensky could help clean up
corruption in Ukraine. But Volker said that Trump was "very skeptical" of Zelensky at the
time.
"He said that Ukraine was a corrupt country, full of 'terrible people.' He said they
'tried to take me down.' In the course of that conversation, he referenced conversations
with Mayor Giuliani," Volker said. "It was clear to me that despite the positive news and
recommendations being conveyed by this official delegation about the new President, President
Trump had a deeply rooted negative view on Ukraine rooted in the past. He was clearly receiving
other information from other sources, including Mayor Giuliani, that was more negative, causing
him to retain this negative view."
Michael McFaul was the key person in failed "white color revolution in Russia in 2011-2012
designed to prevent reelection of Putin. h was recalled soon after Putin elections. So his praise
instantly suggests that the other person might be a color revolution specialist as well
In this sense his participation in Ukrainegate is just a top of his long carier as colore
revolution specialist. Ukrainegate does looks like the second Maydan.
Michael
McFaul, who served as the US ambassador to Russia from 2012 to 2014, called Taylor, who he's
known for three decades, "just a consummate public servant."
"I do remember when he was ambassador to Ukraine he saw the bigness of the moment -- this is
well before Russia annexed Crimea and went into Donbass -- that fighting for sovereignty for
Ukraine and democracy and anti-corruption, he was very committed to that," McFaul said.
"... How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt politics? The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook expansion.. NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the target area. ..."
"... Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials. ..."
"... Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to mind. ..."
"... A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion? ..."
"... As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians. ..."
"... The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly acquired ones. ..."
"... Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor Cohen ascribes to the US. ..."
"... We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU, or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay. ..."
"... Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an individual example with AP, but they all seem like that. ..."
Thanks for your sharing you views about Prof Cohen, a most interesting and principled
man.
Only after reading the article did I realize that the UR (that's you) also provided the
Batchelor Show podcast. Thanks.
I've been listening to these broadcasts over their entirety, now going on for six or so
years. What's always struck me is Cohen's level-headeness and equanimity. I've also detected
affection for Kentucky, his native state. Not something to be expected from a Princeton / NYU
academic nor an Upper West Side resident.
And once again expressing appreciation for the UR!
How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt
politics?
The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook
expansion..
NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA
resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the
target area.
Behind NATO lies the reason for Bexit, the Yellow Jackets, the unrest in Iraq and Egypt,
Yemen etc.
Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials. Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to
follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of
the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to
mind.
I think [private use of public force for private gain] is what Trump meant when Trump said
to impeach Trump for investigating the Ukraine matter amounts to Treason.. but it is the
exactly the activity type that Hallmarks CIA instigated regime change.
A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can
be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other
plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion?
The key question is what is the gain in separating Ukraine from Russia, adding it to NATO,
and turning Russia and Ukraine into enemies. And what are the most likely results, e.g. can
it ever work without risking a catastrophic event?
There are the usual empire-building and weapons business reasons, but those should
function within a rational framework. As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the
Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would
be otherwise for most Ukrainians. And an increase in tensions in the region with
inevitable impact on the business there. So what exactly is the gain and for whom?
The Washington-led attempt to fast-track Ukraine into NATO in 2013–14 resulted in
the Maidan crisis, the overthrow of the country's constitutionally elected president Viktor
Yanukovych, and to the still ongoing proxy civil war in Donbass.
Which exemplifies the stupidity and arrogance of the American
military/industrial/political Establishment -- none of that had anything to do with US
national security (least of all antagonizing Russia) -- how fucking hypocritical is it to
presume the Monroe Doctrine, and then try to get the Ukraine into NATO? -- none of it would
have been of any benefit whatsoever to the average American.
According to a recent govt study, only 12% of Americans can read above a 9th grade level.
This effectively mean (((whoever))) controls the MSM controls the world. NOTHING will change
for the better while the (((enemy))) owns our money supply.
There was NO "annexation" of Crimea by Russia. Crimea WAS annexed, but by Ukraine.
Russia and Crimea re-unified. Crimea has been part of Russia for long than America has
existed – since it was taken from the Ottoman Empire over 350 yrs ago. The vast
majority of the people identify as Russian, and speak only Russian.
To annex, the verb, means to use armed force to seize sovereign territory and put it under
the control of the invading forces government. Pretty much as the early Americans did to
Northern Mexico, Hawaii, etc. Russia used no force, the Governors of Crimea applied for
re-unification with Russia, Russia advised a referendum, which was held, and with a 96%
turnout, 97% voted for re-unification. This was done formally and legally, conforming with
all the international mandates.
It is very damaging for anyone to say that Russia "annexed" Crimea, because when people
read, quickly moving past the world, they subliminally match the word to their held
perception of the concept and move on. Thus they match the word "annex" to their conception
of the use of Armed Force against a resistant population, without checking.
All Cohen is doing here is reinforcing the pushed, lying Empire narrative, that Russia
invaded and used force, when the exact opposite is true!!
@Carlton
Meyer One wonders if Mr. Putin, as he puts his head on the pillow at night, fancies that
he should have rolled the Russian tanks into Kiev, right after the 2014 US-financed coup of
Ukraine's elected president, which was accomplished while he was pre-occupied with the Sochi
Olympics, and been done with it. He had every justification to do so, but perhaps feared
Western blowback. Well, the blowback happened anyway, so maybe Putin was too cautious.
The new Trump Admin threw him under the bus when it installed the idiot Nikki Haley as UN
Ambassador, whose first words were that Russia must give Crimea back. With its only major
warm water port located at Sevastopol, that wasn't about to happen, and the US Deep State
knew it.
Given how he has been so unfairly treated by the media, and never given a chance to enact
his Russian agenda, anyone who thinks that Trump was 'selected' by the deep state has rocks
for brains. The other night, on Rick Sanchez's RT America show, former US diplomat, and
frequent guest Jim Jatras said that he would not be too surprised if 20 GOP Senators flipped
and voted to convict Trump if the House votes to impeach.
The deep state can't abide four more years of the bombastic, Twitter-obsessed Trump, hence
this Special Ops Ukraine false flag, designed to fool a majority of the people. The smooth
talking, more warlike Pence is one of them. The night of the long knives is approaching.
The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US
always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly
acquired ones.
The "logic" of the Dem party is remarkable. Dems don't even deny that Biden is corrupt,
that he blatantly abused the office of Vice-President for personal gain. What's more, he was
dumb enough to boast about it publicly. Therefore, let's impeach Trump.
These people don't give a hoot about the interests of the US as a country, or even as an
Empire. Their insatiable greed for money and power blinds them to everything. By rights,
those who orchestrated totally fake Russiagate and now push for impeachment, when Russiagate
flopped miserably, should be hanged on lampposts for high treason. Unfortunately, justice
won't be served. So, we have to be satisfied with an almost assured prospect of this
impeachment thing to flop, just like Russiagate before it. But in the process incalculable
damage will be done to our country and its institutions.
Those who support the separation of Kosovo from Serbia without Serbian consent cannot
argue against separation of Crimea from Ukraine without the consent of Kiev regime.
On the other hand, those who believe that post-WWII borders are sacrosanct have to
acknowledge that Crimea belongs to Russia (illegally even by loose Soviet standards
transferred to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956), Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union
should be restored, and Germany should be re-divided.
At least now I know why Ukraine is so essential to American national security. It's so even
more of my and my families' taxes can pay for a massive expansion of Nato, which means
American military bases in Ukraine. Greenland to the borders of China.
We're encircling the earth, like those old cartoons about bankers.
@Ron
Unz I had to stop listening after the 10th min. where the good professor (without any
push-back from the interviewer) says:
Victor Yanukovich was overthrown by a street coup . at that moment, the United States
and not only the United States but the Western European Governments had to make a decision
would they acknowledge the overthrow of Yannukovic as having been legitimate, and therefore
accept whatever government emerged, and that was a fateful moment within 24hours, the
governments, including the government of president Obama endorsed what was essentially a
coup d'etat against Yanukovich.
Has the good Professor so quickly forgotten about Victoria Nuland distributing cookies
with John McCain in the Maidan as the coup was still unfolding? Her claim at the think tank
in DC where she discusses having spent $30million (if I remember correctly) for foisting the
Ukraine coup ?
Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next
president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week
later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor
Cohen ascribes to the US.
These are not simple omissions but willful acts of misleading of fools. The good
professor's little discussed career as a resource for the secret services has reemerged after
seemingly having been left out in the cold during the 1st attempted coup against Trump.
No, the real story is more than just a little NATO expansion as the professor does
suggest, but more directly, the attempted coup that the US is still trying to stage in Russia
itself, in order to regain control of Russia's vast energy resources which Putin forced the
oligarchs to disgorge. The US desperately wants to achieve this in order to be able to
ultimately also control China's access to those resources as well.
In the way that Iraq was supposed to be a staging post for an attack on Iran, Ukraine is
the staging post for an attack on Russia.
The great Russian expert stirred miles very clear of even hinting at such scenarios, even
though anyone who's thought about US world policies will easily arrive at this logical
conclusion.
What about the theft of Ukraine's farmland and the enserfing of its rural population? Isn't
this theft and enserfing of Ukrainians at least one major reason the US government got
involved, overseeing the transfer of this land into the hands of the transnational banking
crime syndicate? The Ukraine, with its rich, black soil, used to be called the breadbasket of
Europe.
Consider the fanatical intervention on the part of Victoria Nuland and the Kagans under
the guise of working for the State Dept to facilitate the theft. In a similar fashion,
according to Wayne Madsen, the State Dept. has a Dept of Foreign Asset Management, or some
similar name, that exists to protect the Chabad stranglehold on the world diamond trade, and,
according to Madsen, the language spoken and posters around the offices are in Hebrew, which
as a practical matter might as well be the case at the State Dept itself.
According to an article a few years ago at Oakland Institute, George Rohr's NCH Capital,
which latter organization has funded over 100 Chabad Houses on US campuses, owns over 1
million acres of Ukraine farmland. Other ownership interests of similarly vast tracts of
Ukraine farmland show a similar pattern of predation. At one point, it was suggested that the
Yinon Plan should be understood to include the Ukraine as the newly acquired breadbasket of
Eretz Israel. It may also be worth pointing out that now kosher Ivy League schools'
endowments are among the worst pillagers of native farmland and enserfers of the indigenous
populations they claim to protect.
@Mikhail
Well, if we really go into it, things become complicated. What Khmelnitsky united with Russia
was maybe 1/6th or 1/8th of current Ukraine. Huge (4-5 times greater) areas in the North and
West were added by Russian Tsars, almost as great areas in the South and East taken by Tsars
from Turkey and affiliated Crimean Khanate were added by Lenin, a big chunk in the West was
added by Stalin, and then in 1956 moron Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea (which he had no right to
do even by Soviet law). So, about 4/6th of "Ukraine" is Southern Russia, 1/6th is Eastern
Poland, some chunks are Hungary and Romania, and the remaining little stub is Ukraine proper.
@anon
American view always was: "yes, he is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". That
historically applied to many obnoxious regimes, now fully applies to Ukraine. In that Dems
and Reps always were essentially identical, revealing that they are two different puppets run
by the same puppet master.
Trump is hardly very intelligent, but he has some street smarts that degenerate elites
have lost. Hence their hatred of him. It is particularly galling for the elites that Trump
won in 2016, and has every chance of winning again in 2020 (unless they decide to murder him,
like JFK; but that would be a real giveaway, even the dumbest sheeple would smell the
rat).
@follyofwar
The only reason I can imagine that Putin/Russia would want to "take over" Ukraine and have
this political problem child back in the family might be because of Ukraine's black soil.
But it is probably not worth the aggravation.
Russia is building up its agricultural sector via major greenhouse installations and other
innovations.
@AP
Well, you are a true simpleton who repeats shallow conventional views. You don't ever seem to
think deeper about what you write, e.g. if Yanukovitch could beat anyone in a 1-on-1 election
than he obviously wasn't that unpopular and that makes Maidan illegal by any standard. You
say he could beat Tiahnybok, who was one of the leaders of Maidan, how was then Maidan
democratic? Or you don't care for democracy if people vote against your preferences?
Trade with Russia is way down and it is not coming back. That is my point – there
was definitely a way to do this better. It wasn't a choice of 'one or the other' –
actually EU was under the impression that Ukraine would help open up the Russian market. Your
either-or wasn't the plan, so did Kiev lie to EU? No wonder Ukraine has a snowball chance in
hell of joining EU.
@Skeptikal
Russia moved to the first place in the world in wheat exports, while greatly increasing its
production of meat, fowl, and fish. Those who supplied these commodities lost Russian market
for good. In fact, with sanctions, food in Russia got a lot better, and food in Moscow got
immeasurably better: now it's local staff instead of crap shipped from half-a-world away.
Funny thing is, Russian production of really good fancy cheeses has soared (partially with
the help of French and Italian producers who moved in to avoid any stupid sanctions).
So, there is no reason for Russia to take Ukraine on any conditions, especially
considering Ukraine's exorbitant external debt. If one calculates European demand for
transplantation kidneys and prostitutes, two of the most successful Ukrainian exports,
Ukraine will pay off its debt – never. Besides, the majority of Russians learned to
despise Ukraine due to its subservient vassalage to the US (confirmed yet again by the
transcript of the conversation between Trump and Ze), so the emotional factor is also
virtually gone. Now the EU and the US face the standard rule of retail: you broke it, you own
it. That infuriates Americans and EU bureaucrats more than anything.
@Sergey
Krieger "Demography statistic won't support fairy tales by solzhenicin and his kind."
-- What's your point? Your post reads like an attempt at saying that Kaganovitch was white
like snow and that it does not matter what crimes were committed in the Soviet Union because
of the "demography statistic" and because you, Sergey Krieger, are a grander person next to
Solzhenitsyn and "his kind." By the way, had not A. I. S. returned to Russia, away from the
coziness of western life?
S.K.: "You should start research onto mass dying of population after 1991 and subsequent
and ongoing demographic catastroph in Russia under current not as "brutal " as soviet
regime."
@AP
Maidan was an illegal coup that violated Ukrainian constitution (I should say all of them,
there were too many) and lots of other laws. And that's not the worst part of it. But it
already happened, there is no going back for Ukraine. It's a "yes or no" thing, you can't be
a little bit pregnant. We can either commiserate with Ukraine or gloat, but it committed
suicide. Some say this project was doomed from the start. I think Ukraine had a chance and
blew it.
@AnonFromTN
I usually refrain from labelling off-cycle changes in government as revolutions or coups
– it clearly depends on one's views and can't be determined.
In general, when violence or military is involved, it is more likely it was a coup. If a
country has a reasonably open election process, violently overthrowing the current government
would also seem like a coup, since it is unnecessary. Ukraine had both violence and a coming
election that was democratic. If Yanukovitch would prevent or manipulate the elections, one
could make a case that at that point – after the election – the population could
stage a ' revolution '.
AP is a simpleton who repeats badly thought out slogans and desperately tries to save some
face for the Maidan fiasco – so we will not change his mind, his mind is done with
changes, it is all about avoiding regrets even if it means living in a lie. One can almost
feel sorry for him, if he wasn't so obnoxious.
Ukraine has destroyed its own future gradually after 1991, all the elites there failed,
Yanukovitch was just the last in a long line of failures, the guy before him (Yushenko?) left
office with a 5% approval. Why wasn't there a revolution against him? Maidan put a cherry on
that rotting cake – a desperate scream of pain by people who had lost all hope and so
blindly fell for cheap promises by the new-old hustlers.
We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU,
or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part
of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay.
Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete
disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an
individual example with AP, but they all seem like that.
@AP
You intentionally omitted the second part of what I wrote: 'a reasonably democratic
elections', neither 18th century American colonies, nor Russia in 1917 or Romania in 1989,
had them. Ukraine in 2014 did.
So all your belly-aching is for nothing. The talk about 'subverting' and doing a
preventive 'revolution' on Maidan to prevent 'subversion' has a very Stalinist ring to it. If
you start revolutionary violence because you claim to anticipate that something bad might
happen, well, the sky is the limit and you have no rules.
You are desperately trying to justify a stupid and unworkable act. As we watch the
unfolding disaster and millions leaving Ukraine, this "Maidan was great!!!" mantra will sound
even more silly. But enjoy it, it is not Somalia, wow, I guess as long as a country is not
Somalia it is ok. Ukraine is by far the poorest large country in Europe. How is that a
success?
@Beckow
True believers are called that because they willfully ignore facts and logic. AP is a true
believer Ukie. Ukie faith is their main undoing. Unfortunately, they are ruining the country
with their insane dreams. But that cannot be helped now. The position of a large fraction of
Ukrainian population is best described by a cruel American saying: fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, shame on me.
@AnonFromTN
You are right, it can't be helped. Another saying is that it takes two to lie: one who lies,
and one to lie to. The receiver of lies is also responsible.
What happened in Ukraine was: Nuland&Co. went to Ukraine and lied to them about '
EU, 'Marshall plan', aid, 'you will be Western ', etc,,,'. Maidanistas swallowed it
because they wanted to believe – it is easy to lie to desperate people. Making promises
is very easy. US soft power is all based on making promises.
What Nuland&Co. really wanted was to create a deep Ukraine-Russia hostility and to
grab Crimea, so they could get Russian Navy out and move Nato in. It didn't work very well,
all we have is useless hostility, and a dysfunctional state. But as long as they serve
espresso in Lviv, AP will scream that it was all worth it, 'no Somalia', it is 'all normal',
almost as good as 2013 . Right.
@AP
I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was different:
lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians
Without the unnecessary hostility and the break in business relations with Russia the
living standards in Ukraine would be higher. That, I think, noone would dispute. One can
trace that directly to the so-far failed attempt to get Ukraine into Nato and Russia out of
its Crimea bases. There has been a high cost for that policy, so it is appropriate to ask:
why? did the authors of that policy think it through?
@AP
I don't give a flying f k about Yanukovitch and your projections about what 'would be growth'
under him. He was history by 2014 in any case.
One simple point that you don't seem to grasp: it was Yanuk who negotiated the association
treaty with EU that inevitably meant Ukraine in Nato and Russia bases out of Crimea (after a
decent interval). For anyone to call Yanuk a 'pro-Russian' is idiotic – what we see
today are the results of Yanukovitch's policies. By the way, the first custom restrictions on
Ukraine's exports to Russia happened in summer 2013 under Y.
If you still think that Yanukovitch was in spite of all of that somehow a 'Russian
puppet', you must have a very low opinion of Kremlin skills in puppetry. He was not, he was
fully onboard with the EU-Nato-Crimea policy – he implemented it until he got
outflanked by even more radical forces on Maidan.
@Beckow
Well, exactly like all Ukrainian presidents before and after him, Yanuk was a thief. He might
have been a more intelligent and/or more cautious thief that Porky, but a thief he was.
Anyway, there is no point in crying over spilled milk: history has no subjunctive mood.
Ukraine has dug a hole for itself, and it still keeps digging, albeit slower, after a clown
in whole socks replaced a clown in socks with holes. By now this new clown is also a
murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although so far he has committed fewer crimes
than Porky.
There is no turning back. Regardless of Ukrainian policies, many things it used to sell
Russia won't be bought any more: Russia developed its own shipbuilding (subcontracted some to
South Korea), is making its own helicopter and ship engines, all stages of space rockets,
etc. Russia won't return any military or high-tech production to Ukraine, ever. What's more,
most Russians are now disgusted with Ukraine, which would impede improving relations even if
Ukraine gets a sane government (which is extremely unlikely in the next 5 years).
Ukraine's situation is best described by Russian black humor saying: "what we fought for
has befallen us". End of story.
@Peter
Akuleyev How many millions? It is same story. Ukraine claims more and more millions dead
from so called Hilodomor when in Russia liberals have been screaming about 100 million deaths
in russia from bolsheviks. Both are fairy tales. Now you better answer what is current
population of ukraine. The last soviet time 1992 level was 52 million. I doubt you got even
40 million now. Under soviet power both ukraine and russia population were steadily growing.
Now, under whose music you are dancing along with those in Russia that share your views when
die off very real one is going right under your nose.
By now this new clown is also a murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although
so far he has committed fewer crimes than Porky.
Have you noticed that the Republicans, while seeming to defend Trump, never challenge the
specious assertion that delaying arms to Ukraine was a threat to US security? At first I
thought this was oversight. Silly me. Keeping the New Cold War smoldering is more important
to those hawks.
Tulsi Gabbard flipping to support the impeachment enquiry was especially disappointing.
I'm guessing she was under lots of pressure, because she can't possibly believe that arming
the Ukies is good for our security. If I could get to one of her events, I'd ask her direct,
what's up with that. Obama didn't give them arms at all, even made some remarks about not
inflaming the situation. (A small token, after his people managed the coup, spent 8 years
demonizing Putin, and presided over origins of Russiagate to make Trump's [stated] goal of
better relations impossible.)
Not really. Ukies are wonnabe Nazis, but they fall way short of their ideal. The original
German Nazis were organized, capable, brave, sober, and mostly honest. Ukie scum is
disorganized, ham-handed, cowardly, drunk (or under drugs), and corrupt to the core. They are
heroes only against unarmed civilians, good only for theft, torture, and rape. When it comes
to the real fight with armed opponents, they run away under various pretexts or surrender.
Nazis should sue these impostors for defamation.
Yanukovych signed an internationally brokered power sharing agreement with his main
rivals, who then violated it. Yanukovych up to that point was the democratically elected
president of Ukraine.
Since his being violently overthrown, people have been unjustly jailed, beaten and killed
for politically motivated reasons having to do with a stated opposition to the
Euromaidan.
Yanukovych refrained from using from using considerably greater force, when compared to
others if put in the same situation, against a mob element that included property damage and
the deaths of law enforcement personnel.
In the technical legal sense, there was a legit basis to jail the likes of Tymoshenko. If
I correctly recall Yushchenko offered testimony against Tymoshenko. Rather laughable that
Poroshenko appointed the non-lawyer Lutsenko into a key legal position.
@Beckow
The undemocratic aspect involving Yanukovych's overthrow included the disproportionate number
of Svoboda members appointed to key cabinet positions. At the time, Svoboda was on record for
favoring the dissolution of Crimea's autonomous status
@AP
Grest comment #159 by Beckow. Really, I'm more concerned with the coup against POTUS that's
happening right now, since before he took office. The Ukraine is pivotal, from the Kiev
putschists collaborating with the DNC, to the CIA [pretend] whistleblowers who now subvert
Trump's investigation of those crimes.
Tragic and pitiful, the Ukrainians jumped from a rock to a hard place. Used and abandoned
by the Clinton-Soros gang, they appeal to the next abusive Sugar-Daddy. Isn't this FRANCE 24
report fairly objective?
Revisited: Five years on, what has Ukraine's Maidan Revolution achieved?
@AP
This from BBC is less current. (That magnificent bridge -the one the Ukies tried to sabotage-
is now in operation, of course.) I'm just trying to use sources that might not trigger you.
@AP
"Whenever people ask me how to figure out the truth about Ukraine, I always recommend they
watch the film Ukraine on Fire by director @lopatonok and executive produced by
@TheOliverStone. The sequel Revealing Ukraine will be out soon proud to be in it."
– Lee Sranahan (Follow @stranahan for Ukrainegate in depth.)
" .what has really changed in the life of Ukrainians?"
@Malacaay
Baltics, Ukrainians and Poles were part of the Polish Kingdom from 1025-1569 and the
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1764.
This probably explains their differences with Russia.
Russia had this area in the Russian Empire from 1764-1917. Russia called this area the
Pale of Settlement. Why? This Polish Kingdom since 1025 welcomed 25000 Jews in, who later
grew to millions by the 19th century. They are the Ashkenazis who are all over the world
these days. The name Pale was for Ashkenazis to stay in that area and not immigrate to the
rest of Russia.
The reasoning for this was not religious prejudice but the way the Ashkenazis treated the
peasants of the Pale. It was to protect the Russian peasants. This did not help after 1917. A
huge invasion of Ashkenazis descended all over Russia to take up positions all over the
Soviet Union.
Ukraine US is like the Pale again. It has a Jewish President and a Jewish Prime
Minister.
Ukraine and Poland were both controlled by Tartars too. Ukraine longer than Russia. Russia
ended the Tartar rule of Crimea in 1783. The Crimean Tartars lived off raiding Ukraine,
Poland, and parts of Russia for Slav slaves. Russia ended this Slav slave trade in 1783.
"... Just to remind you: the charge against Trump is that he tried to expose a massive rip off of the people of Ukraine, made practical thanks to the US replacing an elected President with a bunch of neo-nazis in uniforms, for political advantage. ..."
"... And that is to put aside the obvious point that nothing could be more advantageous to any Presidential candidate than to have to run against Joe Biden, supported by Hillary Clinton. ..."
"Will he be convicted in the Senate? Who cares so long as he slowly roasts in the court of
public opinion."
Do you not see how unlikely it is that a story which demonstrates the utter corruption,
personally, of Joe Biden and, institutionally, of the Obama regime will, as it unwinds, turn
the people against Trump?
Just to remind you: the charge against Trump is that he tried to expose a massive rip off
of the people of Ukraine, made practical thanks to the US replacing an elected President with
a bunch of neo-nazis in uniforms, for political advantage.
And that is to put aside the obvious point that nothing could be more advantageous to any
Presidential candidate than to have to run against Joe Biden, supported by Hillary
Clinton.
"... As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians. ..."
"... The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly acquired ones. ..."
"... Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor Cohen ascribes to the US. ..."
"... We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU, or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay. ..."
"... Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an individual example with AP, but they all seem like that. ..."
Thanks for your sharing you views about Prof Cohen, a most interesting and principled
man.
Only after reading the article did I realize that the UR (that's you) also provided the
Batchelor Show podcast. Thanks.
I've been listening to these broadcasts over their entirety, now going on for six or so
years. What's always struck me is Cohen's level-headeness and equanimity. I've also detected
affection for Kentucky, his native state. Not something to be expected from a Princeton / NYU
academic nor an Upper West Side resident.
And once again expressing appreciation for the UR!
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Comments
How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt
politics?
The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook
expansion..
NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA
resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the
target area.
Behind NATO lies the reason for Bexit, the Yellow Jackets, the unrest in Iraq and Egypt,
Yemen etc.
Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials.
Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to
follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of
the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to
mind.
I think [private use of public force for private gain] is what Trump meant when Trump said
to impeach Trump for investigating the Ukraine matter amounts to Treason.. but it is the
exactly the activity type that Hallmarks CIA instigated regime change.
A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can
be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other
plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion?
The key question is what is the gain in separating Ukraine from Russia, adding it to NATO,
and turning Russia and Ukraine into enemies. And what are the most likely results, e.g. can
it ever work without risking a catastrophic event?
There are the usual empire-building and weapons business reasons, but those should
function within a rational framework. As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the
Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would
be otherwise for most Ukrainians. And an increase in tensions in the region with
inevitable impact on the business there. So what exactly is the gain and for whom?
The Washington-led attempt to fast-track Ukraine into NATO in 2013–14 resulted in
the Maidan crisis, the overthrow of the country's constitutionally elected president Viktor
Yanukovych, and to the still ongoing proxy civil war in Donbass.
Which exemplifies the stupidity and arrogance of the American
military/industrial/political Establishment -- none of that had anything to do with US
national security (least of all antagonizing Russia) -- how fucking hypocritical is it to
presume the Monroe Doctrine, and then try to get the Ukraine into NATO? -- none of it would
have been of any benefit whatsoever to the average American.
According to a recent govt study, only 12% of Americans can read above a 9th grade level.
This effectively mean (((whoever))) controls the MSM controls the world. NOTHING will change
for the better while the (((enemy))) owns our money supply.
There was NO "annexation" of Crimea by Russia. Crimea WAS annexed, but by Ukraine.
Russia and Crimea re-unified. Crimea has been part of Russia for long than America has
existed – since it was taken from the Ottoman Empire over 350 yrs ago. The vast
majority of the people identify as Russian, and speak only Russian.
To annex, the verb, means to use armed force to seize sovereign territory and put it under
the control of the invading forces government. Pretty much as the early Americans did to
Northern Mexico, Hawaii, etc. Russia used no force, the Governors of Crimea applied for
re-unification with Russia, Russia advised a referendum, which was held, and with a 96%
turnout, 97% voted for re-unification. This was done formally and legally, conforming with
all the international mandates.
It is very damaging for anyone to say that Russia "annexed" Crimea, because when people
read, quickly moving past the world, they subliminally match the word to their held
perception of the concept and move on. Thus they match the word "annex" to their conception
of the use of Armed Force against a resistant population, without checking.
All Cohen is doing here is reinforcing the pushed, lying Empire narrative, that Russia
invaded and used force, when the exact opposite is true!!
@Carlton
Meyer One wonders if Mr. Putin, as he puts his head on the pillow at night, fancies that
he should have rolled the Russian tanks into Kiev, right after the 2014 US-financed coup of
Ukraine's elected president, which was accomplished while he was pre-occupied with the Sochi
Olympics, and been done with it. He had every justification to do so, but perhaps feared
Western blowback. Well, the blowback happened anyway, so maybe Putin was too cautious.
The new Trump Admin threw him under the bus when it installed the idiot Nikki Haley as UN
Ambassador, whose first words were that Russia must give Crimea back. With its only major
warm water port located at Sevastopol, that wasn't about to happen, and the US Deep State
knew it.
Given how he has been so unfairly treated by the media, and never given a chance to enact
his Russian agenda, anyone who thinks that Trump was 'selected' by the deep state has rocks
for brains. The other night, on Rick Sanchez's RT America show, former US diplomat, and
frequent guest Jim Jatras said that he would not be too surprised if 20 GOP Senators flipped
and voted to convict Trump if the House votes to impeach.
The deep state can't abide four more years of the bombastic, Twitter-obsessed Trump, hence
this Special Ops Ukraine false flag, designed to fool a majority of the people. The smooth
talking, more warlike Pence is one of them. The night of the long knives is approaching.
The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US
always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly
acquired ones.
The "logic" of the Dem party is remarkable. Dems don't even deny that Biden is corrupt,
that he blatantly abused the office of Vice-President for personal gain. What's more, he was
dumb enough to boast about it publicly. Therefore, let's impeach Trump.
These people don't give a hoot about the interests of the US as a country, or even as an
Empire. Their insatiable greed for money and power blinds them to everything. By rights,
those who orchestrated totally fake Russiagate and now push for impeachment, when Russiagate
flopped miserably, should be hanged on lampposts for high treason. Unfortunately, justice
won't be served. So, we have to be satisfied with an almost assured prospect of this
impeachment thing to flop, just like Russiagate before it. But in the process incalculable
damage will be done to our country and its institutions.
Those who support the separation of Kosovo from Serbia without Serbian consent cannot
argue against separation of Crimea from Ukraine without the consent of Kiev regime.
On the other hand, those who believe that post-WWII borders are sacrosanct have to
acknowledge that Crimea belongs to Russia (illegally even by loose Soviet standards
transferred to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956), Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union
should be restored, and Germany should be re-divided.
At least now I know why Ukraine is so essential to American national security. It's so even
more of my and my families' taxes can pay for a massive expansion of Nato, which means
American military bases in Ukraine. Greenland to the borders of China.
We're encircling the earth, like those old cartoons about bankers.
@Ron
Unz I had to stop listening after the 10th min. where the good professor (without any
push-back from the interviewer) says:
Victor Yanukovich was overthrown by a street coup . at that moment, the United States
and not only the United States but the Western European Governments had to make a decision
would they acknowledge the overthrow of Yannukovic as having been legitimate, and therefore
accept whatever government emerged, and that was a fateful moment within 24hours, the
governments, including the government of president Obama endorsed what was essentially a
coup d'etat against Yanukovich.
Has the good Professor so quickly forgotten about Victoria Nuland distributing cookies
with John McCain in the Maidan as the coup was still unfolding? Her claim at the think tank
in DC where she discusses having spent $30million (if I remember correctly) for foisting the
Ukraine coup ?
Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next
president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week
later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor
Cohen ascribes to the US.
These are not simple omissions but willful acts of misleading of fools. The good
professor's little discussed career as a resource for the secret services has reemerged after
seemingly having been left out in the cold during the 1st attempted coup against Trump.
No, the real story is more than just a little NATO expansion as the professor does
suggest, but more directly, the attempted coup that the US is still trying to stage in Russia
itself, in order to regain control of Russia's vast energy resources which Putin forced the
oligarchs to disgorge. The US desperately wants to achieve this in order to be able to
ultimately also control China's access to those resources as well.
In the way that Iraq was supposed to be a staging post for an attack on Iran, Ukraine is
the staging post for an attack on Russia.
The great Russian expert stirred miles very clear of even hinting at such scenarios, even
though anyone who's thought about US world policies will easily arrive at this logical
conclusion.
What about the theft of Ukraine's farmland and the enserfing of its rural population? Isn't
this theft and enserfing of Ukrainians at least one major reason the US government got
involved, overseeing the transfer of this land into the hands of the transnational banking
crime syndicate? The Ukraine, with its rich, black soil, used to be called the breadbasket of
Europe.
Consider the fanatical intervention on the part of Victoria Nuland and the Kagans under
the guise of working for the State Dept to facilitate the theft. In a similar fashion,
according to Wayne Madsen, the State Dept. has a Dept of Foreign Asset Management, or some
similar name, that exists to protect the Chabad stranglehold on the world diamond trade, and,
according to Madsen, the language spoken and posters around the offices are in Hebrew, which
as a practical matter might as well be the case at the State Dept itself.
According to an article a few years ago at Oakland Institute, George Rohr's NCH Capital,
which latter organization has funded over 100 Chabad Houses on US campuses, owns over 1
million acres of Ukraine farmland. Other ownership interests of similarly vast tracts of
Ukraine farmland show a similar pattern of predation. At one point, it was suggested that the
Yinon Plan should be understood to include the Ukraine as the newly acquired breadbasket of
Eretz Israel. It may also be worth pointing out that now kosher Ivy League schools'
endowments are among the worst pillagers of native farmland and enserfers of the indigenous
populations they claim to protect.
@Mikhail
Well, if we really go into it, things become complicated. What Khmelnitsky united with Russia
was maybe 1/6th or 1/8th of current Ukraine. Huge (4-5 times greater) areas in the North and
West were added by Russian Tsars, almost as great areas in the South and East taken by Tsars
from Turkey and affiliated Crimean Khanate were added by Lenin, a big chunk in the West was
added by Stalin, and then in 1956 moron Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea (which he had no right to
do even by Soviet law). So, about 4/6th of "Ukraine" is Southern Russia, 1/6th is Eastern
Poland, some chunks are Hungary and Romania, and the remaining little stub is Ukraine proper.
@anon
American view always was: "yes, he is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". That
historically applied to many obnoxious regimes, now fully applies to Ukraine. In that Dems
and Reps always were essentially identical, revealing that they are two different puppets run
by the same puppet master.
Trump is hardly very intelligent, but he has some street smarts that degenerate elites
have lost. Hence their hatred of him. It is particularly galling for the elites that Trump
won in 2016, and has every chance of winning again in 2020 (unless they decide to murder him,
like JFK; but that would be a real giveaway, even the dumbest sheeple would smell the
rat).
@follyofwar
The only reason I can imagine that Putin/Russia would want to "take over" Ukraine and have
this political problem child back in the family might be because of Ukraine's black soil.
But it is probably not worth the aggravation.
Russia is building up its agricultural sector via major greenhouse installations and other
innovations.
@AP
Well, you are a true simpleton who repeats shallow conventional views. You don't ever seem to
think deeper about what you write, e.g. if Yanukovitch could beat anyone in a 1-on-1 election
than he obviously wasn't that unpopular and that makes Maidan illegal by any standard. You
say he could beat Tiahnybok, who was one of the leaders of Maidan, how was then Maidan
democratic? Or you don't care for democracy if people vote against your preferences?
Trade with Russia is way down and it is not coming back. That is my point – there
was definitely a way to do this better. It wasn't a choice of 'one or the other' –
actually EU was under the impression that Ukraine would help open up the Russian market. Your
either-or wasn't the plan, so did Kiev lie to EU? No wonder Ukraine has a snowball chance in
hell of joining EU.
@Skeptikal
Russia moved to the first place in the world in wheat exports, while greatly increasing its
production of meat, fowl, and fish. Those who supplied these commodities lost Russian market
for good. In fact, with sanctions, food in Russia got a lot better, and food in Moscow got
immeasurably better: now it's local staff instead of crap shipped from half-a-world away.
Funny thing is, Russian production of really good fancy cheeses has soared (partially with
the help of French and Italian producers who moved in to avoid any stupid sanctions).
So, there is no reason for Russia to take Ukraine on any conditions, especially
considering Ukraine's exorbitant external debt. If one calculates European demand for
transplantation kidneys and prostitutes, two of the most successful Ukrainian exports,
Ukraine will pay off its debt – never. Besides, the majority of Russians learned to
despise Ukraine due to its subservient vassalage to the US (confirmed yet again by the
transcript of the conversation between Trump and Ze), so the emotional factor is also
virtually gone. Now the EU and the US face the standard rule of retail: you broke it, you own
it. That infuriates Americans and EU bureaucrats more than anything.
@Sergey
Krieger "Demography statistic won't support fairy tales by solzhenicin and his kind."
-- What's your point? Your post reads like an attempt at saying that Kaganovitch was white
like snow and that it does not matter what crimes were committed in the Soviet Union because
of the "demography statistic" and because you, Sergey Krieger, are a grander person next to
Solzhenitsyn and "his kind." By the way, had not A. I. S. returned to Russia, away from the
coziness of western life?
S.K.: "You should start research onto mass dying of population after 1991 and subsequent
and ongoing demographic catastroph in Russia under current not as "brutal " as soviet
regime."
@AP
Maidan was an illegal coup that violated Ukrainian constitution (I should say all of them,
there were too many) and lots of other laws. And that's not the worst part of it. But it
already happened, there is no going back for Ukraine. It's a "yes or no" thing, you can't be
a little bit pregnant. We can either commiserate with Ukraine or gloat, but it committed
suicide. Some say this project was doomed from the start. I think Ukraine had a chance and
blew it.
@AnonFromTN
I usually refrain from labelling off-cycle changes in government as revolutions or coups
– it clearly depends on one's views and can't be determined.
In general, when violence or military is involved, it is more likely it was a coup. If a
country has a reasonably open election process, violently overthrowing the current government
would also seem like a coup, since it is unnecessary. Ukraine had both violence and a coming
election that was democratic. If Yanukovitch would prevent or manipulate the elections, one
could make a case that at that point – after the election – the population could
stage a ' revolution '.
AP is a simpleton who repeats badly thought out slogans and desperately tries to save some
face for the Maidan fiasco – so we will not change his mind, his mind is done with
changes, it is all about avoiding regrets even if it means living in a lie. One can almost
feel sorry for him, if he wasn't so obnoxious.
Ukraine has destroyed its own future gradually after 1991, all the elites there failed,
Yanukovitch was just the last in a long line of failures, the guy before him (Yushenko?) left
office with a 5% approval. Why wasn't there a revolution against him? Maidan put a cherry on
that rotting cake – a desperate scream of pain by people who had lost all hope and so
blindly fell for cheap promises by the new-old hustlers.
We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU,
or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part
of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay.
Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete
disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an
individual example with AP, but they all seem like that.
@AP
You intentionally omitted the second part of what I wrote: 'a reasonably democratic
elections', neither 18th century American colonies, nor Russia in 1917 or Romania in 1989,
had them. Ukraine in 2014 did.
So all your belly-aching is for nothing. The talk about 'subverting' and doing a
preventive 'revolution' on Maidan to prevent 'subversion' has a very Stalinist ring to it. If
you start revolutionary violence because you claim to anticipate that something bad might
happen, well, the sky is the limit and you have no rules.
You are desperately trying to justify a stupid and unworkable act. As we watch the
unfolding disaster and millions leaving Ukraine, this "Maidan was great!!!" mantra will sound
even more silly. But enjoy it, it is not Somalia, wow, I guess as long as a country is not
Somalia it is ok. Ukraine is by far the poorest large country in Europe. How is that a
success?
@Beckow
True believers are called that because they willfully ignore facts and logic. AP is a true
believer Ukie. Ukie faith is their main undoing. Unfortunately, they are ruining the country
with their insane dreams. But that cannot be helped now. The position of a large fraction of
Ukrainian population is best described by a cruel American saying: fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, shame on me.
@AnonFromTN
You are right, it can't be helped. Another saying is that it takes two to lie: one who lies,
and one to lie to. The receiver of lies is also responsible.
What happened in Ukraine was: Nuland&Co. went to Ukraine and lied to them about '
EU, 'Marshall plan', aid, 'you will be Western ', etc,,,'. Maidanistas swallowed it
because they wanted to believe – it is easy to lie to desperate people. Making promises
is very easy. US soft power is all based on making promises.
What Nuland&Co. really wanted was to create a deep Ukraine-Russia hostility and to
grab Crimea, so they could get Russian Navy out and move Nato in. It didn't work very well,
all we have is useless hostility, and a dysfunctional state. But as long as they serve
espresso in Lviv, AP will scream that it was all worth it, 'no Somalia', it is 'all normal',
almost as good as 2013 . Right.
@AP
I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was different:
lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians
Without the unnecessary hostility and the break in business relations with Russia the
living standards in Ukraine would be higher. That, I think, noone would dispute. One can
trace that directly to the so-far failed attempt to get Ukraine into Nato and Russia out of
its Crimea bases. There has been a high cost for that policy, so it is appropriate to ask:
why? did the authors of that policy think it through?
@AP
I don't give a flying f k about Yanukovitch and your projections about what 'would be growth'
under him. He was history by 2014 in any case.
One simple point that you don't seem to grasp: it was Yanuk who negotiated the association
treaty with EU that inevitably meant Ukraine in Nato and Russia bases out of Crimea (after a
decent interval). For anyone to call Yanuk a 'pro-Russian' is idiotic – what we see
today are the results of Yanukovitch's policies. By the way, the first custom restrictions on
Ukraine's exports to Russia happened in summer 2013 under Y.
If you still think that Yanukovitch was in spite of all of that somehow a 'Russian
puppet', you must have a very low opinion of Kremlin skills in puppetry. He was not, he was
fully onboard with the EU-Nato-Crimea policy – he implemented it until he got
outflanked by even more radical forces on Maidan.
@Beckow
Well, exactly like all Ukrainian presidents before and after him, Yanuk was a thief. He might
have been a more intelligent and/or more cautious thief that Porky, but a thief he was.
Anyway, there is no point in crying over spilled milk: history has no subjunctive mood.
Ukraine has dug a hole for itself, and it still keeps digging, albeit slower, after a clown
in whole socks replaced a clown in socks with holes. By now this new clown is also a
murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although so far he has committed fewer crimes
than Porky.
There is no turning back. Regardless of Ukrainian policies, many things it used to sell
Russia won't be bought any more: Russia developed its own shipbuilding (subcontracted some to
South Korea), is making its own helicopter and ship engines, all stages of space rockets,
etc. Russia won't return any military or high-tech production to Ukraine, ever. What's more,
most Russians are now disgusted with Ukraine, which would impede improving relations even if
Ukraine gets a sane government (which is extremely unlikely in the next 5 years).
Ukraine's situation is best described by Russian black humor saying: "what we fought for
has befallen us". End of story.
@Peter
Akuleyev How many millions? It is same story. Ukraine claims more and more millions dead
from so called Hilodomor when in Russia liberals have been screaming about 100 million deaths
in russia from bolsheviks. Both are fairy tales. Now you better answer what is current
population of ukraine. The last soviet time 1992 level was 52 million. I doubt you got even
40 million now. Under soviet power both ukraine and russia population were steadily growing.
Now, under whose music you are dancing along with those in Russia that share your views when
die off very real one is going right under your nose.
By now this new clown is also a murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although
so far he has committed fewer crimes than Porky.
Have you noticed that the Republicans, while seeming to defend Trump, never challenge the
specious assertion that delaying arms to Ukraine was a threat to US security? At first I
thought this was oversight. Silly me. Keeping the New Cold War smoldering is more important
to those hawks.
Tulsi Gabbard flipping to support the impeachment enquiry was especially disappointing.
I'm guessing she was under lots of pressure, because she can't possibly believe that arming
the Ukies is good for our security. If I could get to one of her events, I'd ask her direct,
what's up with that. Obama didn't give them arms at all, even made some remarks about not
inflaming the situation. (A small token, after his people managed the coup, spent 8 years
demonizing Putin, and presided over origins of Russiagate to make Trump's [stated] goal of
better relations impossible.)
Not really. Ukies are wonnabe Nazis, but they fall way short of their ideal. The original
German Nazis were organized, capable, brave, sober, and mostly honest. Ukie scum is
disorganized, ham-handed, cowardly, drunk (or under drugs), and corrupt to the core. They are
heroes only against unarmed civilians, good only for theft, torture, and rape. When it comes
to the real fight with armed opponents, they run away under various pretexts or surrender.
Nazis should sue these impostors for defamation.
Yanukovych signed an internationally brokered power sharing agreement with his main
rivals, who then violated it. Yanukovych up to that point was the democratically elected
president of Ukraine.
Since his being violently overthrown, people have been unjustly jailed, beaten and killed
for politically motivated reasons having to do with a stated opposition to the
Euromaidan.
Yanukovych refrained from using from using considerably greater force, when compared to
others if put in the same situation, against a mob element that included property damage and
the deaths of law enforcement personnel.
In the technical legal sense, there was a legit basis to jail the likes of Tymoshenko. If
I correctly recall Yushchenko offered testimony against Tymoshenko. Rather laughable that
Poroshenko appointed the non-lawyer Lutsenko into a key legal position.
@Beckow
The undemocratic aspect involving Yanukovych's overthrow included the disproportionate number
of Svoboda members appointed to key cabinet positions. At the time, Svoboda was on record for
favoring the dissolution of Crimea's autonomous status
@AP
Grest comment #159 by Beckow. Really, I'm more concerned with the coup against POTUS that's
happening right now, since before he took office. The Ukraine is pivotal, from the Kiev
putschists collaborating with the DNC, to the CIA [pretend] whistleblowers who now subvert
Trump's investigation of those crimes.
Tragic and pitiful, the Ukrainians jumped from a rock to a hard place. Used and abandoned
by the Clinton-Soros gang, they appeal to the next abusive Sugar-Daddy. Isn't this FRANCE 24
report fairly objective?
Revisited: Five years on, what has Ukraine's Maidan Revolution achieved?
@AP
This from BBC is less current. (That magnificent bridge -the one the Ukies tried to sabotage-
is now in operation, of course.) I'm just trying to use sources that might not trigger you.
@AP
"Whenever people ask me how to figure out the truth about Ukraine, I always recommend they
watch the film Ukraine on Fire by director @lopatonok and executive produced by
@TheOliverStone. The sequel Revealing Ukraine will be out soon proud to be in it."
– Lee Sranahan (Follow @stranahan for Ukrainegate in depth.)
" .what has really changed in the life of Ukrainians?"
@Malacaay
Baltics, Ukrainians and Poles were part of the Polish Kingdom from 1025-1569 and the
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1764.
This probably explains their differences with Russia.
Russia had this area in the Russian Empire from 1764-1917. Russia called this area the
Pale of Settlement. Why? This Polish Kingdom since 1025 welcomed 25000 Jews in, who later
grew to millions by the 19th century. They are the Ashkenazis who are all over the world
these days. The name Pale was for Ashkenazis to stay in that area and not immigrate to the
rest of Russia.
The reasoning for this was not religious prejudice but the way the Ashkenazis treated the
peasants of the Pale. It was to protect the Russian peasants. This did not help after 1917. A
huge invasion of Ashkenazis descended all over Russia to take up positions all over the
Soviet Union.
Ukraine US is like the Pale again. It has a Jewish President and a Jewish Prime
Minister.
Ukraine and Poland were both controlled by Tartars too. Ukraine longer than Russia. Russia
ended the Tartar rule of Crimea in 1783. The Crimean Tartars lived off raiding Ukraine,
Poland, and parts of Russia for Slav slaves. Russia ended this Slav slave trade in 1783.
So after the EuroMaydan coup d'état there is real feast of Atlantists using Ukrainian money and they want it to continue.
Notable quotes:
"... A staffer for Rep. Adam Schiff's House Intelligence Committee flew to Ukraine in late August on a trip organized and sponsored by the Atlantic Council, where he met with a key witness for the Democrats' ongoing impeachment efforts. ..."
"... The witness, acting US Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor , is scheduled to provide a deposition next week as part of Schiff's inquiry into President Trump's phone call with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky, according to Breitbart News . ..."
"... Trump, among other things, asked Zelensky to renew an investigation into Joe Biden and his son Hunter, who were both paid handsomely by gas giant Burisma Holdings while Biden was Vice President, according to prior reports and a new allegation by Ukrainian MP Andriy Derkach, who says he has proof that $900,000 was funneled from Burisma to the elder Biden . ..."
"... Ambassador Taylor , meanwhile, has a "close relationship" with the Atlantic Council, "writing analysis pieces published on the Council's website and serving as a featured speaker for the organization's events," according to the report, which adds that "He also served for nine years as senior advisor to the U.S.-Ukraine Business Council, which has co-hosted scores of events with the Atlantic Council. ..."
"... Interestingly, Eager's trip to Ukraine occurred 12 days after a CIA officer (who previously worked for Joe Biden) filed a whistleblower complaint on August 12, using second-hand information regarding Trump's call with Zelensky. ..."
"... Taylor, meanwhile, will be deposed by House Democrats over text messages which showed him suggesting that President Trump was using his office to pressure Ukraine into investigating Biden. ..."
"... Taylor's attorney, John Bellinger, "served at the National Security Council and as the State Department's lead lawyer under President George W. Bush's administration," according to Breitbart - which adds that Bellinger is a prominent "Never Trump" Republican who participated in drafting a 2016 letter warning that Trump could be the "most reckless President in American history." ..."
A staffer for Rep. Adam Schiff's House Intelligence Committee flew to Ukraine in late August on a trip organized and sponsored
by the Atlantic Council, where he met with a key witness for the Democrats' ongoing impeachment efforts.
The witness, acting US Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor , is scheduled to provide a deposition next week as part of Schiff's
inquiry into President Trump's phone call with Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky, according to
Breitbart News .
Trump, among other things, asked Zelensky to renew an investigation into Joe Biden and his son Hunter, who were both paid handsomely
by gas giant Burisma Holdings while Biden was Vice President, according to prior reports and a new allegation by Ukrainian MP Andriy
Derkach, who says he has proof that
$900,000 was funneled from Burisma to the elder Biden .
Ambassador Taylor , meanwhile, has a "close relationship" with the Atlantic Council, "writing analysis pieces published on the
Council's website and serving as a featured speaker for the organization's events," according to the report, which adds that "He
also served for nine years as senior advisor to the U.S.-Ukraine Business Council, which has co-hosted scores of events with the
Atlantic Council.
The Schiff staffer, Thomas Eager , meanwhile, partook in the Ukraine trip as a member of the Atlantic Council Eurasia Congressional
Fellowship -
directly sponsored by Burisma via a 2017 "cooperative agreement."
A closer look at the itinerary for the August 24 to August 31 trip shows that the delegation's first meeting upon arrival in
Ukraine was with Taylor.
Spokespeople for Schiff's office did not reply to multiple Breitbart News requests sent over the course of the last three days
for comment on Eager's meeting with Taylor.
When Breitbart News first
reported on Eager's visit to Ukraine two weeks ago, Schiff's office quickly replied to several comment requests, denying any
impropriety related to Eager's association with the Atlantic Council or the trip.
The unanswered Breitbart email requests to Schiff's office from the past three days posed the following question:
While in Ukraine, did Mr. Eager speak to Mr. Taylor about the issue of reports about any representatives of President Trump
looking into alleged Biden corruption in Ukraine?
Interestingly, Eager's trip to Ukraine occurred 12 days after a CIA officer (who previously worked for Joe Biden) filed a whistleblower
complaint on August 12, using second-hand information regarding Trump's call with Zelensky.
Schiff's office, meanwhile, directed the whistleblower to a Democratic operative attorney who has previously worked for Hillary
Clinton and Chuck Schumer. Schiff initially lied about the initial contact,
later claiming he "should have been much more clear" after he had been caught.
Taylor, meanwhile, will be deposed by House Democrats over text messages which showed him suggesting that President Trump was
using his office to pressure Ukraine into investigating Biden.
Taylor's attorney, John Bellinger, "served at the National Security
Council and as the State Department's lead lawyer under President George W. Bush's administration," according to Breitbart
- which adds that Bellinger is a prominent "Never Trump" Republican who participated in drafting a 2016 letter warning that
Trump could be the "most reckless President in American history."
Negotiators for Russia, Ukraine, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe recently met in Minsk to revive the
agreement previously reached in the Belarus capital. They set an election schedule in the contested east, to be followed by passage
of Ukrainian legislation to grant the region greater autonomy and separatists legal immunity. Despite strong opposition from nationalists,
passage is likely since Zelensky's party holds a solid legislative majority.
Many challenges remain, but the West could aid this process by respecting Russian security concerns. The U.S. and its allies should
formally foreclose Ukraine's membership in the transatlantic alliance and end lethal military aid. After receiving those assurances,
Moscow would be expected to resolve the Donbass conflict, presumably along the lines of Minsk: Ukraine protects local autonomy while
Russia exits the fight. Sanctions against Russia would be lifted. Ukrainians would be left to choose their economic orientation,
since the country would likely be split between east and west for some time to come. The West would accept Russia's control of Crimea
while refusing to formally recognize the conquest -- absent a genuinely independent referendum with independent monitors.
Such a compromise would be controversial. Washington's permanent war lobby would object. Hyper-nationalistic Ukrainians would
double down on calling Zelensky a traitor. Eastern Europeans would complain about appeasing Russia. However, such a compromise would
certainly be better than endless conflict.
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and former special assistant to President Ronald Reagan. He is the
author of Foreign Follies: America's New Global Empire.
I understand why you want to thread the needle. After the invasions, having to add more failure or at the very least recognition
of dysfunction to our foreign policy choices and consequences is a bitter pill. But as you note had the US and the EU seriously
had the desire to add the Ukraine into the western European sphere of influence, they could have offered a better deal on oil
- they didn't.
I think we have got to stop accusing the then existing government of corruption. As your own article states, the history of
unstable governance with accompanying "corruption" seems a staple and nonunique. And as is the case in developing countries, what
we call corruption is a cultural staple of how business and affairs are conducted. Whatever the issues, the Ukrainian public was
not overly beset by the results so as to spontaneously riot. How the civil unrest spun out of control the second in ten years,
can be linked directly to US and EU involvement.
It is a deeply held belief that democracy is a system that by definition a generally acceptable path forward. That belief is
false as democracy is still comprised of human beings. And democracy in their hands is no "cure all". It can be a turbulent and
jerky bureaucratic maze process that pleases no one and works over time.
The US didn't accomplish it without violence until after more than 130 years, when the native populations were finally subdued.
And as for a system that embodied equal treatment to similar circumstance -- we are still at it. But a violent revolution every
ten years certainly isn't the most effective road to take.
-----------------
Why we insistent on restarting the cold war is unclear to me save that it served to create a kind of strategic global clarity
Though what that means would troublesome because Russia's ole would now be as a developing democratic state as opposed to a communist
monolith. And that means unfettered from her satellites and empowered by more capital markets her role as adversary would be more
adroit. As time after time, Ores Putin has appeared the premier diplomat for peace and stability in situations in which the US
was engaged or encouraging violence.(the Ukraine). I certainly don't think that our relations with Russia or China are a to be
kumbaya love fests, there is still global competition and there's no reason to pretend it would be without tensions. But seriously,
as a democratic/capital market player -- there really was no way to contain Russia.
----------------------
Given what we experienced during 2007 --- corruption comes in a mryiad of guises.
All so very true. The crux of the matter is the word competition. US doesn't like that, as a monopolist entity (the world would
be hegemonic power). So you get Cold War 2.0 in overdrive now. Just think Great Britain, Russia, and Germany, at the end of 19th
century beginning of 20th. All three monarchies, with cousins in power, with more or less parliamentarian structures in place,
competing for a place under sun. And UK fretting that will loose its place...
Only in the USA such a level of hypocrisy is possible: Corrupt Biden made fighting corruption in Ukraine a lucrative method to
milk the country via nepotism. Plus sharks form various NATO think tanks started to milk this poor country where the most of
population lives at African level of poverty.
Notable quotes:
"... According to the Washington Post , " George Kent, a deputy assistant secretary of state, testified Tuesday that he worried that Hunter Biden's position at the firm Burisma Holdings would complicate efforts by U.S. diplomats to convey to Ukrainian officials the importance of avoiding conflicts of interest , said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of confidentiality rules surrounding the deposition. ..."
"... Biden campaign spokesman Andrew Bates said in a statement that " on Joe Biden's watch, the U.S. made eradicating corruption a centerpiece of our policies toward Ukraine ." ..."
A State Department official in charge of Ukraine policy told House investigators this week that
in
early 2015
he raised concerns with then-VP Joe Biden's office over Hunter Biden's
dealings in the country
, but was rebuffed and told that the Vice President didn't have the
"bandwidth" to deal with the issue as his other son, Beau, was battling cancer.
According to the
Washington
Post
, "
George Kent, a deputy assistant secretary of state, testified Tuesday that
he worried that
Hunter Biden's position at the firm Burisma Holdings would complicate efforts by
U.S. diplomats to convey to Ukrainian officials the importance of avoiding conflicts of interest
,
said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of confidentiality rules
surrounding the deposition."
Kent told congressional investigators he was concerned that Ukrainian officials would see Hunter
Biden
as a means to curry influence with his father.
Kent, who also testified about how Trump's associates raised unfounded allegations about the
former ambassador to Ukraine, is
the first known example of a career diplomat who raised
concerns internally in the Obama administration about Hunter Biden's board position
.
The Washington Post has previously reported that there had been discussions among Biden's
advisers about whether his son's Ukraine work would be perceived as a conflict of interest, and
that
one former adviser had been concerned enough to mention it to Biden, though the
conversation was brief
. -
WaPo
Joe Biden has faced tough questions over why he didn't anticipate his son's Ukraine work would
raise rad flags over conflicts of interest at the same time
he was in a leading role in
carrying out US policy toward Ukraine
.
Hunter Biden made roughly $50,000 per month on the board of Ukrainian gas giant Burisma
Holdings, while Joe Biden
has been accused by a Ukrainian politician of getting paid
$900,000
from
Burisma.
A former senior national security aide to Biden provided the
Post
with a massive amount
of cover, telling the paper he has no recollection of Kent's concerns, and what's the big deal
anyway?
"
I don't understand what the optics thing means other than someone thinking it looked
bad in a political way
," said the aide. "Did it have any effect on US policies, either on
what we were doing or what the Ukrainians were doing? It didn't . In the aggregate it didn't have
any discernible effect."
The aide also said that the death of Joe Biden's son, Beau, had little to no impact on his
work.
"
Day to day the vice president was at work and he was pretty focused
," said the
aide. "Does that mean it's inconceivable that someone said, 'Hey look it's not the time to raise a
family issue?' I guess it's conceivable. But I never saw evidence he wasn't capable of doing the VP
role and dealing with his family at the same time."
Biden campaign spokesman Andrew Bates said in a statement that "
on Joe Biden's watch,
the U.S. made eradicating corruption a centerpiece of our policies toward Ukraine
."
The Bidens adventures in Ukraine are at the heart of an impeachment inquiry against President
Trump, whose crime was to ask Ukraine's president to "look into" what went on with the Bidens -
after
Joe Biden infamously bragged about getting the lead Ukrainian prosecutor fired,
who
happened to be investigating Burisma for corruption.
Biden says that he has never spoken with Hunter about his Ukraine dealings, and only learned
about the Burisma position when he read about it in news reports - a claim Hunter contradicted in
a
Vanity Fair
interview. Hunter told
ABC
this week that he did "nothing wrong at
all" but showed "poor judgement" making hundreds of thousands of dollars at Burisma while his
father was in charge of Ukraine policy for the Obama administration.
And now we know that at least one Obama-era ambassador raised concerns over it.
As an aside, you know a story is bad for the left when the
Washington Post
has to
defend their own reporting.
It is more accurate to call it Russia's reannexation of Crimea, supported by over 90% of the
people there via an election. Russia didn't invade, it had 20,000 troops based there as
Russian troops have been there for over a century.
Jeffery Epstein should have declared that he was running for President, because according
to the logic of many Democrats and their media allies, Trump would be forced to release him
so as not to interfere in the elections.
Remember Joe Biden claimed that he knew nothing about his son's shady business in Ukraine.
Tucker Carlson broke the big story of the week that was ignored by our corporate media to
include Fox News itself:
'Tucker Carlson Tonight' obtains photo of Joe Biden golfing with his son and Ukrainian
business partner
"... Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and former special assistant to President Ronald Reagan. He is the author of Foreign Follies: America's New Global Empire. ..."
Negotiators for Russia, Ukraine, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe
recently met in Minsk to revive the agreement previously reached in the Belarus capital. They
set an election schedule in the contested east, to be followed by passage of Ukrainian
legislation to grant the region greater autonomy and separatists legal immunity. Despite strong
opposition from nationalists, passage is likely since Zelensky's party holds a solid
legislative majority.
Many challenges remain, but the West could aid this process by respecting Russian security
concerns. The U.S. and its allies should formally foreclose Ukraine's membership in the
transatlantic alliance and end lethal military aid. After receiving those assurances, Moscow
would be expected to resolve the Donbass conflict, presumably along the lines of Minsk: Ukraine
protects local autonomy while Russia exits the fight. Sanctions against Russia would be lifted.
Ukrainians would be left to choose their economic orientation, since the country would likely
be split between east and west for some time to come. The West would accept Russia's control of
Crimea while refusing to formally recognize the conquest -- absent a genuinely independent
referendum with independent monitors.
Such a compromise would be controversial. Washington's permanent war lobby would object.
Hyper-nationalistic Ukrainians would double down on calling Zelensky a traitor. Eastern
Europeans would complain about appeasing Russia. However, such a compromise would certainly be
better than endless conflict.
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and former special assistant to
President Ronald Reagan. He is the author of Foreign Follies: America's New Global
Empire.
"... As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians. ..."
"... The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly acquired ones. ..."
"... Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor Cohen ascribes to the US. ..."
"... We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU, or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay. ..."
"... Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an individual example with AP, but they all seem like that. ..."
Thanks for your sharing you views about Prof Cohen, a most interesting and principled
man.
Only after reading the article did I realize that the UR (that's you) also provided the
Batchelor Show podcast. Thanks.
I've been listening to these broadcasts over their entirety, now going on for six or so
years. What's always struck me is Cohen's level-headeness and equanimity. I've also detected
affection for Kentucky, his native state. Not something to be expected from a Princeton / NYU
academic nor an Upper West Side resident.
And once again expressing appreciation for the UR!
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Comments
How did the United States become so involved in Ukraine's torturous and famously corrupt
politics?
The short answer is NATO expansion <= maybe something different? I like pocketbook
expansion..
NATO Expansion provides cover and legalizes the private use of Presidential directed USA
resources to enable a few to make massively big profits at the expense of the governed in the
target area.
Behind NATO lies the reason for Bexit, the Yellow Jackets, the unrest in Iraq and Egypt,
Yemen etc.
Hypothesis 1: NATO supporters are more corrupt than Ukraine officials.
Hypothesis 2: NATO expansion is a euphemism for USA/EU/ backed private party plunder to
follow invade and destroy regime change activities designed to dispossess local Oligarchs of
the wealth in NATO targeted nations? Private use of public force for private gain comes to
mind.
I think [private use of public force for private gain] is what Trump meant when Trump said
to impeach Trump for investigating the Ukraine matter amounts to Treason.. but it is the
exactly the activity type that Hallmarks CIA instigated regime change.
A lot of intelligence agency manipulation and private pocketbook expanding corruption can
be hidden behind NATO expansion.. Please prove to me that Biden and the hundreds of other
plunders became so deeply involved in Ukraine because of NATO expansion?
The key question is what is the gain in separating Ukraine from Russia, adding it to NATO,
and turning Russia and Ukraine into enemies. And what are the most likely results, e.g. can
it ever work without risking a catastrophic event?
There are the usual empire-building and weapons business reasons, but those should
function within a rational framework. As it is right now, the most likely outcome of the
Western initiative in Ukraine will be substantially lower living standards than there would
be otherwise for most Ukrainians. And an increase in tensions in the region with
inevitable impact on the business there. So what exactly is the gain and for whom?
The Washington-led attempt to fast-track Ukraine into NATO in 2013–14 resulted in
the Maidan crisis, the overthrow of the country's constitutionally elected president Viktor
Yanukovych, and to the still ongoing proxy civil war in Donbass.
Which exemplifies the stupidity and arrogance of the American
military/industrial/political Establishment -- none of that had anything to do with US
national security (least of all antagonizing Russia) -- how fucking hypocritical is it to
presume the Monroe Doctrine, and then try to get the Ukraine into NATO? -- none of it would
have been of any benefit whatsoever to the average American.
According to a recent govt study, only 12% of Americans can read above a 9th grade level.
This effectively mean (((whoever))) controls the MSM controls the world. NOTHING will change
for the better while the (((enemy))) owns our money supply.
There was NO "annexation" of Crimea by Russia. Crimea WAS annexed, but by Ukraine.
Russia and Crimea re-unified. Crimea has been part of Russia for long than America has
existed – since it was taken from the Ottoman Empire over 350 yrs ago. The vast
majority of the people identify as Russian, and speak only Russian.
To annex, the verb, means to use armed force to seize sovereign territory and put it under
the control of the invading forces government. Pretty much as the early Americans did to
Northern Mexico, Hawaii, etc. Russia used no force, the Governors of Crimea applied for
re-unification with Russia, Russia advised a referendum, which was held, and with a 96%
turnout, 97% voted for re-unification. This was done formally and legally, conforming with
all the international mandates.
It is very damaging for anyone to say that Russia "annexed" Crimea, because when people
read, quickly moving past the world, they subliminally match the word to their held
perception of the concept and move on. Thus they match the word "annex" to their conception
of the use of Armed Force against a resistant population, without checking.
All Cohen is doing here is reinforcing the pushed, lying Empire narrative, that Russia
invaded and used force, when the exact opposite is true!!
@Carlton
Meyer One wonders if Mr. Putin, as he puts his head on the pillow at night, fancies that
he should have rolled the Russian tanks into Kiev, right after the 2014 US-financed coup of
Ukraine's elected president, which was accomplished while he was pre-occupied with the Sochi
Olympics, and been done with it. He had every justification to do so, but perhaps feared
Western blowback. Well, the blowback happened anyway, so maybe Putin was too cautious.
The new Trump Admin threw him under the bus when it installed the idiot Nikki Haley as UN
Ambassador, whose first words were that Russia must give Crimea back. With its only major
warm water port located at Sevastopol, that wasn't about to happen, and the US Deep State
knew it.
Given how he has been so unfairly treated by the media, and never given a chance to enact
his Russian agenda, anyone who thinks that Trump was 'selected' by the deep state has rocks
for brains. The other night, on Rick Sanchez's RT America show, former US diplomat, and
frequent guest Jim Jatras said that he would not be too surprised if 20 GOP Senators flipped
and voted to convict Trump if the House votes to impeach.
The deep state can't abide four more years of the bombastic, Twitter-obsessed Trump, hence
this Special Ops Ukraine false flag, designed to fool a majority of the people. The smooth
talking, more warlike Pence is one of them. The night of the long knives is approaching.
The US actions in Ukraine are typical, not exceptional. Acting as an Empire, the US
always installs the worst possible scum in power in its vassals, particularly in newly
acquired ones.
The "logic" of the Dem party is remarkable. Dems don't even deny that Biden is corrupt,
that he blatantly abused the office of Vice-President for personal gain. What's more, he was
dumb enough to boast about it publicly. Therefore, let's impeach Trump.
These people don't give a hoot about the interests of the US as a country, or even as an
Empire. Their insatiable greed for money and power blinds them to everything. By rights,
those who orchestrated totally fake Russiagate and now push for impeachment, when Russiagate
flopped miserably, should be hanged on lampposts for high treason. Unfortunately, justice
won't be served. So, we have to be satisfied with an almost assured prospect of this
impeachment thing to flop, just like Russiagate before it. But in the process incalculable
damage will be done to our country and its institutions.
Those who support the separation of Kosovo from Serbia without Serbian consent cannot
argue against separation of Crimea from Ukraine without the consent of Kiev regime.
On the other hand, those who believe that post-WWII borders are sacrosanct have to
acknowledge that Crimea belongs to Russia (illegally even by loose Soviet standards
transferred to Ukraine by Khrushchev in 1956), Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and Soviet Union
should be restored, and Germany should be re-divided.
At least now I know why Ukraine is so essential to American national security. It's so even
more of my and my families' taxes can pay for a massive expansion of Nato, which means
American military bases in Ukraine. Greenland to the borders of China.
We're encircling the earth, like those old cartoons about bankers.
@Ron
Unz I had to stop listening after the 10th min. where the good professor (without any
push-back from the interviewer) says:
Victor Yanukovich was overthrown by a street coup . at that moment, the United States
and not only the United States but the Western European Governments had to make a decision
would they acknowledge the overthrow of Yannukovic as having been legitimate, and therefore
accept whatever government emerged, and that was a fateful moment within 24hours, the
governments, including the government of president Obama endorsed what was essentially a
coup d'etat against Yanukovich.
Has the good Professor so quickly forgotten about Victoria Nuland distributing cookies
with John McCain in the Maidan as the coup was still unfolding? Her claim at the think tank
in DC where she discusses having spent $30million (if I remember correctly) for foisting the
Ukraine coup ?
Has he forgotten the historical conversation of Nuland and Payatt picking the next
president of Ukraine "Yats is our guy" and "Yats" actually emerging as the president a week
later ? None of these facts are in any way remotely compatible with passive role professor
Cohen ascribes to the US.
These are not simple omissions but willful acts of misleading of fools. The good
professor's little discussed career as a resource for the secret services has reemerged after
seemingly having been left out in the cold during the 1st attempted coup against Trump.
No, the real story is more than just a little NATO expansion as the professor does
suggest, but more directly, the attempted coup that the US is still trying to stage in Russia
itself, in order to regain control of Russia's vast energy resources which Putin forced the
oligarchs to disgorge. The US desperately wants to achieve this in order to be able to
ultimately also control China's access to those resources as well.
In the way that Iraq was supposed to be a staging post for an attack on Iran, Ukraine is
the staging post for an attack on Russia.
The great Russian expert stirred miles very clear of even hinting at such scenarios, even
though anyone who's thought about US world policies will easily arrive at this logical
conclusion.
What about the theft of Ukraine's farmland and the enserfing of its rural population? Isn't
this theft and enserfing of Ukrainians at least one major reason the US government got
involved, overseeing the transfer of this land into the hands of the transnational banking
crime syndicate? The Ukraine, with its rich, black soil, used to be called the breadbasket of
Europe.
Consider the fanatical intervention on the part of Victoria Nuland and the Kagans under
the guise of working for the State Dept to facilitate the theft. In a similar fashion,
according to Wayne Madsen, the State Dept. has a Dept of Foreign Asset Management, or some
similar name, that exists to protect the Chabad stranglehold on the world diamond trade, and,
according to Madsen, the language spoken and posters around the offices are in Hebrew, which
as a practical matter might as well be the case at the State Dept itself.
According to an article a few years ago at Oakland Institute, George Rohr's NCH Capital,
which latter organization has funded over 100 Chabad Houses on US campuses, owns over 1
million acres of Ukraine farmland. Other ownership interests of similarly vast tracts of
Ukraine farmland show a similar pattern of predation. At one point, it was suggested that the
Yinon Plan should be understood to include the Ukraine as the newly acquired breadbasket of
Eretz Israel. It may also be worth pointing out that now kosher Ivy League schools'
endowments are among the worst pillagers of native farmland and enserfers of the indigenous
populations they claim to protect.
@Mikhail
Well, if we really go into it, things become complicated. What Khmelnitsky united with Russia
was maybe 1/6th or 1/8th of current Ukraine. Huge (4-5 times greater) areas in the North and
West were added by Russian Tsars, almost as great areas in the South and East taken by Tsars
from Turkey and affiliated Crimean Khanate were added by Lenin, a big chunk in the West was
added by Stalin, and then in 1956 moron Khrushchev "gifted" Crimea (which he had no right to
do even by Soviet law). So, about 4/6th of "Ukraine" is Southern Russia, 1/6th is Eastern
Poland, some chunks are Hungary and Romania, and the remaining little stub is Ukraine proper.
@anon
American view always was: "yes, he is a son of a bitch, but he is our son of a bitch". That
historically applied to many obnoxious regimes, now fully applies to Ukraine. In that Dems
and Reps always were essentially identical, revealing that they are two different puppets run
by the same puppet master.
Trump is hardly very intelligent, but he has some street smarts that degenerate elites
have lost. Hence their hatred of him. It is particularly galling for the elites that Trump
won in 2016, and has every chance of winning again in 2020 (unless they decide to murder him,
like JFK; but that would be a real giveaway, even the dumbest sheeple would smell the
rat).
@follyofwar
The only reason I can imagine that Putin/Russia would want to "take over" Ukraine and have
this political problem child back in the family might be because of Ukraine's black soil.
But it is probably not worth the aggravation.
Russia is building up its agricultural sector via major greenhouse installations and other
innovations.
@AP
Well, you are a true simpleton who repeats shallow conventional views. You don't ever seem to
think deeper about what you write, e.g. if Yanukovitch could beat anyone in a 1-on-1 election
than he obviously wasn't that unpopular and that makes Maidan illegal by any standard. You
say he could beat Tiahnybok, who was one of the leaders of Maidan, how was then Maidan
democratic? Or you don't care for democracy if people vote against your preferences?
Trade with Russia is way down and it is not coming back. That is my point – there
was definitely a way to do this better. It wasn't a choice of 'one or the other' –
actually EU was under the impression that Ukraine would help open up the Russian market. Your
either-or wasn't the plan, so did Kiev lie to EU? No wonder Ukraine has a snowball chance in
hell of joining EU.
@Skeptikal
Russia moved to the first place in the world in wheat exports, while greatly increasing its
production of meat, fowl, and fish. Those who supplied these commodities lost Russian market
for good. In fact, with sanctions, food in Russia got a lot better, and food in Moscow got
immeasurably better: now it's local staff instead of crap shipped from half-a-world away.
Funny thing is, Russian production of really good fancy cheeses has soared (partially with
the help of French and Italian producers who moved in to avoid any stupid sanctions).
So, there is no reason for Russia to take Ukraine on any conditions, especially
considering Ukraine's exorbitant external debt. If one calculates European demand for
transplantation kidneys and prostitutes, two of the most successful Ukrainian exports,
Ukraine will pay off its debt – never. Besides, the majority of Russians learned to
despise Ukraine due to its subservient vassalage to the US (confirmed yet again by the
transcript of the conversation between Trump and Ze), so the emotional factor is also
virtually gone. Now the EU and the US face the standard rule of retail: you broke it, you own
it. That infuriates Americans and EU bureaucrats more than anything.
@Sergey
Krieger "Demography statistic won't support fairy tales by solzhenicin and his kind."
-- What's your point? Your post reads like an attempt at saying that Kaganovitch was white
like snow and that it does not matter what crimes were committed in the Soviet Union because
of the "demography statistic" and because you, Sergey Krieger, are a grander person next to
Solzhenitsyn and "his kind." By the way, had not A. I. S. returned to Russia, away from the
coziness of western life?
S.K.: "You should start research onto mass dying of population after 1991 and subsequent
and ongoing demographic catastroph in Russia under current not as "brutal " as soviet
regime."
@AP
Maidan was an illegal coup that violated Ukrainian constitution (I should say all of them,
there were too many) and lots of other laws. And that's not the worst part of it. But it
already happened, there is no going back for Ukraine. It's a "yes or no" thing, you can't be
a little bit pregnant. We can either commiserate with Ukraine or gloat, but it committed
suicide. Some say this project was doomed from the start. I think Ukraine had a chance and
blew it.
@AnonFromTN
I usually refrain from labelling off-cycle changes in government as revolutions or coups
– it clearly depends on one's views and can't be determined.
In general, when violence or military is involved, it is more likely it was a coup. If a
country has a reasonably open election process, violently overthrowing the current government
would also seem like a coup, since it is unnecessary. Ukraine had both violence and a coming
election that was democratic. If Yanukovitch would prevent or manipulate the elections, one
could make a case that at that point – after the election – the population could
stage a ' revolution '.
AP is a simpleton who repeats badly thought out slogans and desperately tries to save some
face for the Maidan fiasco – so we will not change his mind, his mind is done with
changes, it is all about avoiding regrets even if it means living in a lie. One can almost
feel sorry for him, if he wasn't so obnoxious.
Ukraine has destroyed its own future gradually after 1991, all the elites there failed,
Yanukovitch was just the last in a long line of failures, the guy before him (Yushenko?) left
office with a 5% approval. Why wasn't there a revolution against him? Maidan put a cherry on
that rotting cake – a desperate scream of pain by people who had lost all hope and so
blindly fell for cheap promises by the new-old hustlers.
We don't know what happens next, but we know the following: Ukraine will not be in EU,
or Nato. It will not be a unified, prosperous country. It will continue losing a large part
of its population. And oligarchy and 'corruption' is going to stay.
Another Maidan would most likely make things even worse and trigger a complete
disintegration. Those are the wages of stupidity and desperation – one can see an
individual example with AP, but they all seem like that.
@AP
You intentionally omitted the second part of what I wrote: 'a reasonably democratic
elections', neither 18th century American colonies, nor Russia in 1917 or Romania in 1989,
had them. Ukraine in 2014 did.
So all your belly-aching is for nothing. The talk about 'subverting' and doing a
preventive 'revolution' on Maidan to prevent 'subversion' has a very Stalinist ring to it. If
you start revolutionary violence because you claim to anticipate that something bad might
happen, well, the sky is the limit and you have no rules.
You are desperately trying to justify a stupid and unworkable act. As we watch the
unfolding disaster and millions leaving Ukraine, this "Maidan was great!!!" mantra will sound
even more silly. But enjoy it, it is not Somalia, wow, I guess as long as a country is not
Somalia it is ok. Ukraine is by far the poorest large country in Europe. How is that a
success?
@Beckow
True believers are called that because they willfully ignore facts and logic. AP is a true
believer Ukie. Ukie faith is their main undoing. Unfortunately, they are ruining the country
with their insane dreams. But that cannot be helped now. The position of a large fraction of
Ukrainian population is best described by a cruel American saying: fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, shame on me.
@AnonFromTN
You are right, it can't be helped. Another saying is that it takes two to lie: one who lies,
and one to lie to. The receiver of lies is also responsible.
What happened in Ukraine was: Nuland&Co. went to Ukraine and lied to them about '
EU, 'Marshall plan', aid, 'you will be Western ', etc,,,'. Maidanistas swallowed it
because they wanted to believe – it is easy to lie to desperate people. Making promises
is very easy. US soft power is all based on making promises.
What Nuland&Co. really wanted was to create a deep Ukraine-Russia hostility and to
grab Crimea, so they could get Russian Navy out and move Nato in. It didn't work very well,
all we have is useless hostility, and a dysfunctional state. But as long as they serve
espresso in Lviv, AP will scream that it was all worth it, 'no Somalia', it is 'all normal',
almost as good as 2013 . Right.
@AP
I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was different:
lower living standards than there would be otherwise for most Ukrainians
Without the unnecessary hostility and the break in business relations with Russia the
living standards in Ukraine would be higher. That, I think, noone would dispute. One can
trace that directly to the so-far failed attempt to get Ukraine into Nato and Russia out of
its Crimea bases. There has been a high cost for that policy, so it is appropriate to ask:
why? did the authors of that policy think it through?
@AP
I don't give a flying f k about Yanukovitch and your projections about what 'would be growth'
under him. He was history by 2014 in any case.
One simple point that you don't seem to grasp: it was Yanuk who negotiated the association
treaty with EU that inevitably meant Ukraine in Nato and Russia bases out of Crimea (after a
decent interval). For anyone to call Yanuk a 'pro-Russian' is idiotic – what we see
today are the results of Yanukovitch's policies. By the way, the first custom restrictions on
Ukraine's exports to Russia happened in summer 2013 under Y.
If you still think that Yanukovitch was in spite of all of that somehow a 'Russian
puppet', you must have a very low opinion of Kremlin skills in puppetry. He was not, he was
fully onboard with the EU-Nato-Crimea policy – he implemented it until he got
outflanked by even more radical forces on Maidan.
@Beckow
Well, exactly like all Ukrainian presidents before and after him, Yanuk was a thief. He might
have been a more intelligent and/or more cautious thief that Porky, but a thief he was.
Anyway, there is no point in crying over spilled milk: history has no subjunctive mood.
Ukraine has dug a hole for itself, and it still keeps digging, albeit slower, after a clown
in whole socks replaced a clown in socks with holes. By now this new clown is also a
murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although so far he has committed fewer crimes
than Porky.
There is no turning back. Regardless of Ukrainian policies, many things it used to sell
Russia won't be bought any more: Russia developed its own shipbuilding (subcontracted some to
South Korea), is making its own helicopter and ship engines, all stages of space rockets,
etc. Russia won't return any military or high-tech production to Ukraine, ever. What's more,
most Russians are now disgusted with Ukraine, which would impede improving relations even if
Ukraine gets a sane government (which is extremely unlikely in the next 5 years).
Ukraine's situation is best described by Russian black humor saying: "what we fought for
has befallen us". End of story.
@Peter
Akuleyev How many millions? It is same story. Ukraine claims more and more millions dead
from so called Hilodomor when in Russia liberals have been screaming about 100 million deaths
in russia from bolsheviks. Both are fairy tales. Now you better answer what is current
population of ukraine. The last soviet time 1992 level was 52 million. I doubt you got even
40 million now. Under soviet power both ukraine and russia population were steadily growing.
Now, under whose music you are dancing along with those in Russia that share your views when
die off very real one is going right under your nose.
By now this new clown is also a murderer, as he did not stop shelling Donbass, although
so far he has committed fewer crimes than Porky.
Have you noticed that the Republicans, while seeming to defend Trump, never challenge the
specious assertion that delaying arms to Ukraine was a threat to US security? At first I
thought this was oversight. Silly me. Keeping the New Cold War smoldering is more important
to those hawks.
Tulsi Gabbard flipping to support the impeachment enquiry was especially disappointing.
I'm guessing she was under lots of pressure, because she can't possibly believe that arming
the Ukies is good for our security. If I could get to one of her events, I'd ask her direct,
what's up with that. Obama didn't give them arms at all, even made some remarks about not
inflaming the situation. (A small token, after his people managed the coup, spent 8 years
demonizing Putin, and presided over origins of Russiagate to make Trump's [stated] goal of
better relations impossible.)
Not really. Ukies are wonnabe Nazis, but they fall way short of their ideal. The original
German Nazis were organized, capable, brave, sober, and mostly honest. Ukie scum is
disorganized, ham-handed, cowardly, drunk (or under drugs), and corrupt to the core. They are
heroes only against unarmed civilians, good only for theft, torture, and rape. When it comes
to the real fight with armed opponents, they run away under various pretexts or surrender.
Nazis should sue these impostors for defamation.
Yanukovych signed an internationally brokered power sharing agreement with his main
rivals, who then violated it. Yanukovych up to that point was the democratically elected
president of Ukraine.
Since his being violently overthrown, people have been unjustly jailed, beaten and killed
for politically motivated reasons having to do with a stated opposition to the
Euromaidan.
Yanukovych refrained from using from using considerably greater force, when compared to
others if put in the same situation, against a mob element that included property damage and
the deaths of law enforcement personnel.
In the technical legal sense, there was a legit basis to jail the likes of Tymoshenko. If
I correctly recall Yushchenko offered testimony against Tymoshenko. Rather laughable that
Poroshenko appointed the non-lawyer Lutsenko into a key legal position.
@Beckow
The undemocratic aspect involving Yanukovych's overthrow included the disproportionate number
of Svoboda members appointed to key cabinet positions. At the time, Svoboda was on record for
favoring the dissolution of Crimea's autonomous status
@AP
Grest comment #159 by Beckow. Really, I'm more concerned with the coup against POTUS that's
happening right now, since before he took office. The Ukraine is pivotal, from the Kiev
putschists collaborating with the DNC, to the CIA [pretend] whistleblowers who now subvert
Trump's investigation of those crimes.
Tragic and pitiful, the Ukrainians jumped from a rock to a hard place. Used and abandoned
by the Clinton-Soros gang, they appeal to the next abusive Sugar-Daddy. Isn't this FRANCE 24
report fairly objective?
Revisited: Five years on, what has Ukraine's Maidan Revolution achieved?
@AP
This from BBC is less current. (That magnificent bridge -the one the Ukies tried to sabotage-
is now in operation, of course.) I'm just trying to use sources that might not trigger you.
@AP
"Whenever people ask me how to figure out the truth about Ukraine, I always recommend they
watch the film Ukraine on Fire by director @lopatonok and executive produced by
@TheOliverStone. The sequel Revealing Ukraine will be out soon proud to be in it."
– Lee Sranahan (Follow @stranahan for Ukrainegate in depth.)
" .what has really changed in the life of Ukrainians?"
@Malacaay
Baltics, Ukrainians and Poles were part of the Polish Kingdom from 1025-1569 and the
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1569-1764.
This probably explains their differences with Russia.
Russia had this area in the Russian Empire from 1764-1917. Russia called this area the
Pale of Settlement. Why? This Polish Kingdom since 1025 welcomed 25000 Jews in, who later
grew to millions by the 19th century. They are the Ashkenazis who are all over the world
these days. The name Pale was for Ashkenazis to stay in that area and not immigrate to the
rest of Russia.
The reasoning for this was not religious prejudice but the way the Ashkenazis treated the
peasants of the Pale. It was to protect the Russian peasants. This did not help after 1917. A
huge invasion of Ashkenazis descended all over Russia to take up positions all over the
Soviet Union.
Ukraine US is like the Pale again. It has a Jewish President and a Jewish Prime
Minister.
Ukraine and Poland were both controlled by Tartars too. Ukraine longer than Russia. Russia
ended the Tartar rule of Crimea in 1783. The Crimean Tartars lived off raiding Ukraine,
Poland, and parts of Russia for Slav slaves. Russia ended this Slav slave trade in 1783.
"... Even though the overall idea of ending the sponsoring of the conflict by Washington is plausible there are a number of shortcomings in the article to put it mildly. I realize though that the author has to make Washington look innocent and Russia look bad to escape the danger of being stigmatized as a pro-Russian traitor. ..."
"... I understand why you want to thread the needle. After the invasions, having to add more failure or at the very least recognition of dysfunction to our foreign policy choices and consequences is a bitter pill. But as you note had the US and the EU seriously had the desire to add the Ukraine into the western European sphere of influence, they could have offered a better deal on oil - they didn't. ..."
"... I think we have got to stop accusing the then existing government of corruption. As your own article states, the history of unstable governance with accompanying "corruption" seems a staple and nonunique. ..."
"... And as is the case in developing countries, what we call corruption is a cultural staple of how business and affairs are conducted. Whatever the issues, the Ukrainian public was not overly beset by the results so as to spontaneously riot. ..."
"... How the civil unrest spun out of control the second time in ten years, can be linked directly to US and EU involvement. ..."
Time to Extricate From Ukraine Kiev has become a drag on Trump, but if we don't watch out, it could turn into a geopolitical
threat to everyone. By Doug Bandow •
October 17, 2019
Recently Ukraine has been thrown into the spotlight as Democrats gear up to impeach President Donald Trump. More important, though,
is its role in damaging America's relations with Russia, which has resulted in a mini-Cold War that the U.S. needs to end.
Ukraine is in a bad neighborhood. During the 17th century, the country was divided between Poland and Russia, and eventually ended
up as part of the Russian Empire. Kiev then enjoyed only the briefest of liberations after the 1917 Russian Revolution, before being
reabsorbed by the Soviet Union. It later suffered from a devastating famine as Moscow confiscated food and collectivized agriculture.
Ukraine was ravaged during Germany's World War II invasion, and guerrilla resistance to renewed Soviet control continued for years
afterwards.
In 1991, the collapse of the U.S.S.R. gave Ukraine another, more enduring chance for independence. However, the new nation's development
was fraught: GDP dropped by 60 percent and corruption burgeoned. Ukraine suffered under a succession of corrupt, self-serving, and
ineffective leaders, as the U.S., Europe, and Russia battled for influence.
In 2014, Washington and European governments backed a street putsch against the elected, though highly corrupt, pro-Russian president,
Viktor Yanukovych. The Putin government responded by annexing Crimea and backing separatist forces in Eastern Ukraine's Donbass region.
Washington and Brussels imposed economic sanctions on Russia and provided military aid to Kiev.
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The West versus Russia quickly became a "frozen" conflict. Moscow reincorporated Crimea into Russia, from which it had been detached
in 1954 as part of internal Soviet politics. In the Donbass, more than a score of ceasefires came and went. Both Ukraine and Russia
failed to fulfill the 2016 Minsk agreements, which sought to end the conflict.
In excess of 13,000 people, mostly Ukrainians, are known to have died in this war, and some two million have been forced from
their homes. The economy of eastern Ukraine has collapsed. Ukraine has suffered through painful economic dislocation and political
division. Meanwhile, several hundred Russians are believed to have been killed fighting in the Donbass. Western sanctions have damaged
Russia's weak economy. And although the majority of Crimeans probably wanted to join Russia, opposition activists and journalists
have been abducted, brutalized, and/or imprisoned. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been closed and Tartars have been persecuted.
The most important geopolitical impact has been to poison Russia's relations with the West. Moscow's aggressions against Ukraine
cannot be justified, but the U.S. and Europe did much to create the underlying suspicion and hostility. Recently declassified documents
reveal the degree to which Western officials misled Moscow about their intention to expand NATO. Allied support for adding Georgia
and Ukraine, which would have greatly expanded Russian vulnerability, generated a particularly strong reaction in Moscow. The dismemberment
of Serbia with no consideration of Russia's interests was another irritant, along with Western support for "color revolutions" elsewhere,
including in Tbilisi. The ouster of Yanukovych finally triggered Putin's brutal response.
Washington and Brussels apparently did not view their policies as threatening to Russia. However, had Moscow ousted an elected
Mexican president friendly to America, while inviting the new government to join the Warsaw Pact, and worked with a coalition of
Central American states to divert Mexican trade from the U.S., officials in Washington would not have been pleased. They certainly
wouldn't have been overly concerned about juridical niceties in responding.
This explains (though does not justify) Russia's hostile response. Subsequent allied policies then turned the breach in relations
into a gulf. The U.S. and European Union imposed a series of economic sanctions. Moreover, Washington edged closer to military confrontation
with its provision of security assistance to Kiev. Moscow responded by challenging America from Syria to Venezuela.
It also began moving towards China. The two nations' differences are many and their relationship is unstable. However, as long
as their antagonism towards Washington exceeds their discomfort with each other, they will cooperate to block what they see as America's
pursuit of global hegemony.
Why is the U.S. entangled in the Ukrainian imbroglio? During the Cold War, Ukraine was one of the fabled "captive nations," backed
by vigorous advocacy from Ukrainian Americans. After the Soviet Union collapsed, they joined other groups lobbying on behalf of ethnic
brethren to speed NATO's expansion eastward. Security policy turned into a matter of ethnic solidarity, to be pursued irrespective
of cost and risk.
To more traditional hawks who are always seeking an enemy, the issue is less pro-Ukraine than anti-Russia. Mitt Romney, the Republican
Party's 2012 presidential nominee, improbably attacked Russia as America's most dangerous adversary. Hence the GOP's counterproductive
determination to bring Kiev into NATO. Originally Washington saw the transatlantic alliance as a means to confront the Soviet menace;
now it views the pact as a form of charity.
After the Soviet collapse, the U.S. pushed NATO eastward into nations that neither mattered strategically nor could be easily
protected, most notably in the Balkans and Baltics. Even worse were Georgia and Ukraine, security black holes that would bring with
them ongoing conflicts with Russia, possibly triggering a larger war between NATO and Moscow.
Ukraine never had been a matter of U.S. security. For most of America's history, the territory was controlled by either the Russian
Empire or the Soviet Union. Washington's Cold War sympathies represented fraternal concerns, not security essentials. Today, without
Kiev's aid, the U.S. and Europe would still have overwhelming conventional forces to be brought into any conflict with Moscow. However,
adding Ukraine to NATO would increase the risk of a confrontation with a nuclear armed power. Russia's limitations when it comes
to its conventional military would make a resort to nuclear weapons more likely in any conflict.
Nevertheless, George W. Bush's aggressively neoconservative administration won backing for Georgian and Ukrainian membership in
NATO and considered intervening militarily in the Russo-Georgian war. However, European nations that feared conflict with Moscow
blocked plans for NATO expansion, which went into cold storage. Although alliance officials still officially backed membership for
Ukraine, it remains unattainable so long as conflict burns hot with Russia.
In the meantime, Washington has treated Ukraine as a de facto military ally, offering economic and security assistance. The U.S.
has provided $1.5 billion for Ukrainian training and weapons, including anti-tank Javelin missiles. Explained Obama administration
defense secretary Ashton Carter: "Ukraine would never be where it is without that support from the United States."
Equally important, the perception of U.S. backing made the Kiev government, headed by President Petro Poroshenko, less willing
to pursue a diplomatic settlement with Russia. Thus did Ukraine, no less than Russia, almost immediately violate the internationally
backed Minsk accord.
Kiev's role as a political football highlights the need for Washington to pursue an enduring political settlement with Russia.
European governments are growing restless; France has taken the lead in seeking better relations with Moscow. Germany is unhappy
with U.S. attempts to block the planned Nord Stream 2 natural gas pipeline. In Ukraine, President Volodymyr Zelensky has campaigned
to end the conflict.
Negotiators for Russia, Ukraine, and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe recently met in Minsk to revive the
agreement previously reached in the Belarus capital. They set an election schedule in the contested east, to be followed by passage
of Ukrainian legislation to grant the region greater autonomy and separatists legal immunity. Despite strong opposition from nationalists,
passage is likely since Zelensky's party holds a solid legislative majority.
Many challenges remain, but the West could aid this process by respecting Russian security concerns. The U.S. and its allies should
formally foreclose Ukraine's membership in the transatlantic alliance and end lethal military aid. After receiving those assurances,
Moscow would be expected to resolve the Donbass conflict, presumably along the lines of Minsk: Ukraine protects local autonomy while
Russia exits the fight. Sanctions against Russia would be lifted. Ukrainians would be left to choose their economic orientation,
since the country would likely be split between east and west for some time to come. The West would accept Russia's control of Crimea
while refusing to formally recognize the conquest -- absent a genuinely independent referendum with independent monitors.
Such a compromise would be controversial. Washington's permanent war lobby would object. Hyper-nationalistic Ukrainians would
double down on calling Zelensky a traitor. Eastern Europeans would complain about appeasing Russia. However, such a compromise would
certainly be better than endless conflict.
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and former special assistant to President Ronald Reagan. He is the author
of Foreign Follies: America's New Global Empire.
I credit Mr. Bandow for his largely fair and accurate description of the events in Ukraine of five years ago, and for his ultimate
policy proposal for the US to extricate itself from its close involvement in the area. However, I'm a little confused by what
exactly the author means by "Moscow's aggressions against Ukraine" and "Putin's brutal response" (aside from the treatment
of dissidents and journalists as he specifically mentioned) to the Maidan Revolution.
Was it aggressive and brutal for Russia to support separatists in the Donbass who were facing the prospect of legal discrimination
and violence by a criminal, neo-fascist government in Kiev, not to mention de-industrialization, the gutting of the agriculture
sector and the forced economic migration of an enormous number of its young workers (assuming that Ukraine's economic deal
with the EU followed the script of every other Easter European's country's deal with the EU)? If Yanukovych had fled to the
Donbass and proclaimed himself still the freely elected (though certainly corrupt) President of the nation, Russia's support
for the region would have even had a shiny brass legal fig leaf, wouldn't it?
As for the supposed "conquest" of Crimea, that's a rather strong word to use considering that all of two members of the
Ukrainian military were killed, and 60-80 of them detained, while 15,000 defected to Russia. Compared to the violence in Kiev
and Odessa, what happened in Crimea almost qualifies as a bloodless coup. But then Mr. Bandow shies away from using the word
"hegemony" to describe the foreign policy of the United States, figuratively putting the word in the mouths of those bad men
(which they are) in Moscow and Beijing. It's a pity that Mr. Bandow felt the need to make linguistic concessions to the foreign
policy establishment in what was otherwise a useful and balanced piece.
Even though the overall idea of ending the sponsoring of the conflict by Washington is plausible there are a number of shortcomings
in the article to put it mildly. I realize though that the author has to make Washington look innocent and Russia look bad
to escape the danger of being stigmatized as a pro-Russian traitor.
I understand why you want to thread the needle. After the invasions, having to add more failure or at the very least recognition
of dysfunction to our foreign policy choices and consequences is a bitter pill. But as you note had the US and the EU seriously
had the desire to add the Ukraine into the western European sphere of influence, they could have offered a better deal on oil
- they didn't.
I think we have got to stop accusing the then existing government of corruption. As your own article states, the history
of unstable governance with accompanying "corruption" seems a staple and nonunique.
And as is the case in developing countries,
what we call corruption is a cultural staple of how business and affairs are conducted. Whatever the issues, the Ukrainian
public was not overly beset by the results so as to spontaneously riot.
How the civil unrest spun out of control the second
time in ten years, can be linked directly to US and EU involvement.
It is a deeply held belief that democracy is a system that by definition a generally acceptable path forward. That belief
is false as democracy is still comprised of human beings. And democracy in their hands is no "cure all". It can be a turbulent
and jerky bureaucratic maze process that pleases no one and works over time.
The US didn't accomplish it without violence until after more than 130 years, when the native populations were finally subdued.
And as for a system that embodied equal treatment to similar circumstance -- we are still at it. But a violent revolution every
ten years certainly isn't the most effective road to take.
-----------------
Why we insistent on restarting the cold war is unclear to me save that it served to create a kind of strategic global clarity
Though what that means would troublesome because Russia's ole would now be as a developing democratic state as opposed to a
communist monolith. And that means unfettered from her satellites and empowered by more capital markets her role as adversary
would be more adroit. As time after time, Ores Putin has appeared the premier diplomat for peace and stability in situations
in which the US was engaged or encouraging violence.(the Ukraine). I certainly don't think that our relations with Russia or
China are a to be kumbaya love fests, there is still global competition and there's no reason to pretend it would be without
tensions. But seriously, as a democratic/capital market player -- there really was no way to contain Russia.
----------------------
Given what we experienced during 2007 --- corruption comes in a mryiad of guises.
The Ukraine situation is complex to be certain, but ending military aid and letting Russia clean up seems like a bad idea.
This week we saw Russian forces occupy US bases abandoned when Trump ordered our troops to withdraw from the Turkish border.
And now the author is arguing we should do something similar in the Ukraine.
When did Russian appeasement become so important to conservative foreign policy?
Mate, Russians were in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government. US troops are there illegally (no Congress mandate,
no international mandate, no invitation). US is an occupying, destabilizing, terrorist protecting force in Syria and Americans
should look beyond their self esteem before commenting on this "shameful" retreat. US does not have the right to put its troops
wherever it fancies.
This win or loose mentality will be the death of you. Who do you think is threatening the US, when it has the biggest moats
protecting its shores? The only thing that is happening is that the hegemonic role, that of controlling everyone's economy
for its own elites benefit is being denied.
This is what you are complaining mate, the the rich Americans cannot get richer? Do you think they will share with you,
or that, like the good English boys of the past, you will not be able to land a job with East India Co. and despoil the natives
for a while?
If the US were smart then they would lead some sort of negotiation where eastern Europe and Ukraine and Russia were allowed
only mutually agreed defensive weapons systems. A demilitarization of say 200 miles on each side of the Russia border. The
strategy should be to encourage trade between Eastern Europe and Russia where Russia has influence but is not threatening.
It may be slow to build that trust but the real question is whether the US and Europe and NATO want peace with Russia or whether
they are using fear of Russia to keep eastern Europe united with the US and Europe. This may be the case but the future will
have China as a greater threat than Russia (China will even be a threat to Russia). Any shift in Russian relations will take
decades of building trust on both sides.
Good article and excellent history of facts. If I recall during the last Bush administration W hosted a Putin and his then
spouse, at a visit at his ranch. Putin informed W," the Ukraine belongs to Russia. end of sentence.
The author forgot the critical role of Sevastopol in the Crimea. It is Russia's only warm water port and there was no way that
it was going to allow this area to become a NATO naval base. Secretary of State Clinton and her sidekick for Ukraine, Victoria
Nuland should have known this before they started supporting the overthrow of the pro-Russia government in Kiev.
If you look at a historical atlas, you won't find an independent country called Ukraine before 1991. When my parents were
born, near what is now called Lviv, the area was called Galicia and Lemberg was its provincial capital. A gold medal issued
in 1916 in honor of Franz Josef's 85th birthday noted that he was the Kaiser of Austria, Hungary, Galicia and Lodomeria.
When the old Soviet Union agreed to allow East and West Germany to reunify, it was with the understanding that NATO would
not extend membership to former Soviet block countries and that there would be no NATO bases in these areas either. NATO and
the US broke their oral commitment to Russia a few years later.
The US should get out of the business of trying to spread democracy in third world countries and interfering in the affairs
of foreign governments. We can't afford to be the policeman of the world. We don't even have the ability to make many of our
own central cities safe for Americans. Think Baltimore, St. Louis, New Orleans and Detroit, all four of which appear on Wikipedia's
list of the 50 murder capitals of the world (per thousand population).
Bolton Opposed Ukraine Investigations; Called Giuliani "A Hand Grenade" by
Tyler Durden Tue, 10/15/2019 - 12:25 0 SHARES
Former national security adviser John Bolton was 'so alarmed' by efforts to encourage Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and 2016
election meddling that he told an aide, Fiona Hill, to alert White House lawyers, according to the
New York Times
.
When Hill confronted Sondland, he told her that he was 'in charge' of Ukraine, "a moment she compared to Secretary of State Alexander
M. Haig Jr.'s declaration that he was in charge after the Ronald Reagan assassination attempt, according to those who heard the testimony,"
according to the Times.
Hill says she asked Sondland on whose authority he was in charge of Ukraine, to which he replied 'the president.' She would later
leave her post shortly before a July 25 phone call with Ukraine's president which is currently at the heart of an impeachment inquiry.
Meanwhile, the Times also notes that "House Democrats widened their net in the fast-paced inquiry by summoning Michael McKinley,
a senior adviser to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo who abruptly resigned last week, to testify Wednesday."
Career diplomats have expressed outrage at the unceremonious
removal of Ambassador Marie L. Yovanovitch from Ukraine after she came under attack by Mr. Giuliani, Donald Trump Jr. and
two associates who have since been arrested on charges of campaign violations.
Three other Trump admin officials are scheduled to speak with House investigators this week, including Sondland - who is now set
to appear on Thursday. On Tuesday, deputy assistant secretary of state George Kent will testify, while on Friday, Laura K. Cooper
- a a deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine and Eurasia policy, will speak with lawmakers as well.
Looks like we have our whistleblower. My only question is, how does one whistle with such a bristly moustache draping their
hairlip?
So now we have Mr. Neocon and Mr. Liddle Kidz conjugating as the strangest of bedfellows? How will this play to their respective
bases? Are we to assume these people think this nations top law enforcement agent (POTUS) is to abdicate his duties therewith
just because the criminal is (at least according to our two tiered justice system) supposed to be beyond reproach?
Mr. Bolton, bright and determined as he is, has hitched his wagon to mad mare galloping full tilt over a precipice.
Looking for a return of uranium one to the headlines soon. In due time we will stich this Russia/Ukraine narrative back together
from a patchwork of facts. You traitors are fucked...royally fucked...and you know it.
So, Mr bolton, explain to us in simple terms how you appraise America's security and her related interests. Your camp is in
eclipse.
John Bolton:
"I was appauled...just flabbergasted...that the president was concerned that our intelligence apparatus was politicized to
the extent that its highest echelons were arrayed in an attempt to subvert a lawful and legitimate election. Never mind that six
other nations were tasked with abetting this treasonous plot...this is an outrage!!! The whole point of intelligence agencies
is to skirt the law with impunity, and once we (the unelected permanent breacracy) tell one of our minions like Biden or Hillary
that they're permanently immune from prosecution, we can't have some earnest pact of Patriots running around demanding law and
order."
What a sorry bunch of cretians.
We were so close...so close...to losing it all. But since the enemy is making clear we're playing zero sum, we're going to
end up with everything.
Brace yourself, California. If I were you, I'd study the legal framework of Reconstruction. Your plight will be of a kind.
Your state has been engaged in a systematic attempt to overthrow the government. Your leaders will be appointed for a generation
after this all comes out. Don't look to Beijing to save you...they kinda have their hands full.
So, I guess Bolton is no longer collecting free money like Hunter Biden was. I get it now how all these politicians have kids
overseas and open foreign corporations which our tax money goes in to by way of cutting deals overseas public officials to line
their pockets with our money. This how they get into government poor and become very rich! Giuliani is pointing this fact out
to the public with Trump and the swamp HATES IT!
The public now knows how these corrupt PUBLIC OFFICIALS in America have been fleecing the tax payers. This is a major hit on
the swamp.
Trump & Giuliani we're behind you thank you for showing us how the swamp has been ******* us for all these years.
Understand that the reason Schitt head won't allow public hearings is because the former Ambassador to Ukraine--Volker, shot
this whole **** fest down when he testified. There is no "there" there.
Bolton and the others are crying because of Trump's pull out. The left jumped on the war bandwagon under Billary a long time
ago. Necons work both parties.
If Bolton dislikes Guiliani that's the best endorsement of Rudy I can imagine. Bolton is a complete warmongering traitor who,
like McShitstain, desires a nice case of brain cancer.
Go Rudy, expose the corrupt Demonrats! We deplorables love human hand grenades. That's why we elected the Donald, and you apparently
are the perfect lawyer for our great God emperor.
"Schiff simply does not have the gravitas that a weighty procedure such as impeachment requires," Biggs wrote in an opinion
piece for Fox News. "He has repeatedly shown incredibly poor judgment. He has persistently and consistently demonstrated that
he has such a tremendous bias and animus against Trump that he will say anything and accept any proffer of even bogus evidence
to try to remove the president from office."
If the coup has less than 70% they have no more than the CNN crowd.
Equating Ukraine to US security is false and not selling the coup. Bashing Trump for going
after his corrupt opponent Biden is not selling!
Crooked media coverage fools 50% of the people all the time, especially when 35% of the
are duped by Pelosi, Schumer and Biden usually they are suffering from Trump Derangement
Syndrome.
Democrats; shady neocons equate not arming the corrupt regime in Ukraine to "security".
Siding with corruption is a huge threat to US security!
Many of us who turn down polls will never again vote for a democrat.
"Equating Ukraine to US security is false and not selling the coup. "
I would say more: calling foreign interference of Ukraine in the US election in case of
Biden is an insult to the intelligence of US voters.
This is the level of chutzpah almost equal to claiming orphan privileges after killing
both parents.
After 2014 Ukraine with its marionette government 'midwifed' by Ms. Nuland (Google
Nulandgate) is a colony for all practical purposes; the country governed directly from the US
embassy ( Washington Obcom as locals sarcastically call it as it performs functions similar
to the CPSU offices in the past).
For all key matters it's Washington who decided that policy Ukraine will pursue. That
decides the issue of interference once and forever. Under Obama Ukraine participated in
anti-Trump coup d'état. How this marionette government can pursue independent policy
as for the USA is beyond my understanding of the situation.
What is funny is that Biden was Obama's viceroy in Ukraine all that time up to election of
Trump. He also was the best friend on Yanukovich and his political mentor (that's probably
why Yanukovich ended his career is such a way; which such friends, who needs the enemies
;-)
The main feature of the democrat coup the foundation of the party is corruption.
This aspect of the party demanded that Clinton run against Trump, rather than on any
policy. Shew hid the neocon militarism, attacking Trump deplorables as isolationists.
The Ukraine connection is money for family members of democrat elites. A most corrupt
regime the image of not supporting the corruption is a democrat defined national security
issue!
The US ust sell Javelin tank busters to Ukraine so they can keep their Russian sectors and
plunder them to pay Biden's (Romney kid, Pelosi kid) son.
This coup is about plunder and it is not Trump whose plunder is at stake!
Both EuroMaydan cope d'état and the civil war in Ukraine was unleashed with the help and encouragement from Washington, DC
because it suits geopolitical goals of the USA in the region.
Notable quotes:
"... As the furor over "Ukrainegate" continues, Biden and his allies are soldiering ahead, insisting that scrutiny of his activities in Ukraine constitute nothing more than a vast right-wing conspiracy. ..."
"... So the Russiagate claims against Russia were generated by cold warriors to justify a warmer war against Russia. Poor Hunter was caught in the graft that surrounds the US's relationship with Ukraine. ..."
"... Burisma has been described at Moon Of Alabama as a money-laundering entity. ..."
"... I suspect that these NGO non-profits such as the Atlantic Council are simply fronts for the U.S. intelligence community. ..."
"... The "King of Orange" is still publicly boring holes in the hull of the Ship of State and nothing happens except Dims and Repugs claim some honor in joining to condemn a foreign EU allied country for doing what "The King of Orange" approved that he do. ..."
"... The whole Ukraine story is an enormous blunder for the West . not only did it give Russia the opportunity to reclaim Crimea but the West now also has to finance a corrupt, unstable and bankrupt country. Not funny ! ..."
"... Excellent research. The deep state is indeed international and takes care of its own. Christopher Hunter, who, after Trump's election, resigned from the DOJ, then ran unsuccessfully as a Democratic candidate for Congress, was then parachuted into the Atlantic Council as senior fellow. He then proceeded to provide expert advice to Al Jazeera about why Trump should be impeached. So you now have the US State Department paying $1 million tax dollars to the Atlantic Council, at least one member of which is using his "expertise" to impeach President Trump. ..."
"... Dmitri Alperovitch, Hillary's own Russian Head of Crowdstrike and a Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council, went to great lengths to prove that RUSSIANS!!! had hacked into Ukrainian artillery, and claimed the same methodology was used to prove that RUSSIANS!!! had hacked into the DNC ..."
"... These were Crowdstrike's bonafides (and thus no reason to look closely at the DNC servers). Of course, it later turned out that the Russians had NOT hacked Ukrainian artillery, Crowdstrike had lied, and hacking of the DNC was more likely initially done by Crowdstrike/ New Knowledge and the Atlantic Council, not the Russians. ..."
"... Think tanks should be responsible, with jail times and fines, for the discord they sow. ..."
"... The UK seizure of the 23mil was not accidental, i expect the US had all the banks of Europe watching this guys asset for this leverage. So they freeze his money, open a criminal investigation and put him on a wanted list. ..."
"... Just a couple weeks later Biden joins the board. This was a State Dept/CIA play. ..."
"... They went to Zlochevsky or the oligarch behind him and presented them with the only way out of ruin. Several months later, UK unfreezes 23mil and closes the case. USAID comes calling on Burisma, Atlantic Council attaches themselves. This was a well planned takeover and Biden was a beneficiary, but doing the bidding of the hidden hands. ..."
W ith its relentless focus on corruption in Russia and Ukraine, the Atlantic Council has
distinguished itself from other top-flight think tanks in Washington. Over the past several
years, it has held innumerable conferences and panel discussions, issued a string of reports,
and published literally hundreds of essays on Russia's "kleptocracy" and the scourge of Kremlin
disinformation.
At the same time, this institution has posed as a faithful partner to Ukraine's imperiled
democracy, organizing countless programs on the urgency of economic reforms to tamp down on
corruption in the country.
But behind the curtain, the Atlantic Council has initiated a lucrative relationship with a
corruption-tainted Ukrainian gas company, the Burisma Group, that is worth as much as $250,000
a year. The partnership has paid for lavish conferences in Monaco and helped bring Burisma's
oligarchic founder out of the cold.
This alliance has remained stable even as official Washington goes to war over allegations
by President Donald Trump and his allies that former Vice President Joseph Biden fired a
Ukrainian prosecutor to defend his son's handsomely compensated position on Burisma's
board.
As Biden parries Trump's accusations, some of the former vice president's most ardent
defenders are emerging from the halls of the Atlantic Council, which featured Biden as a star
speaker at its awards ceremonies over the years. These advocates include
Michael Carpenter , Biden's longtime foreign policy advisor and specialist on Ukraine, who
has taken to the national media to support his embattled boss.
Even as Burisma's trail of influence-buying finds its way into front page headlines, the
Atlantic Council's partnership with the company is scarcely mentioned. Homing in on the
partisan theater of "Ukrainegate" and tuning out the wider landscape of corruption, the Beltway
press routinely runs quotes from Atlantic Council experts on the scandal without acknowledging
their employer's relationship with Hunter Biden's former employer.
This case of obvious cronyism has not been overlooked because the Atlantic Council is a bit
player, but because of its success in leveraging millions from foreign governments, the arms
and energy industries, and Western-friendly oligarchs to bring its influence to bear in the
nation's capital.
Biden has been among the think tank's most enthusiastic and well-placed allies.
In 2011, then-Vice President Biden delivered the keynote address at the Atlantic Council's
distinguished leadership awards. He returned to the think tank again in 2014 for another
keynote at its "Toward A Europe Whole
and Free" conference, which was dedicated to expanding NATO's influence and countering
"Russian aggression." Throughout the event, speakers like Zbigniew Brzezinski, a former U.S.
national security adviser, sniped at President Barack Obama for his insufficiently bellicose
posture toward Russia, while former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright fretted over polls
showing low public support for U.S. interventionism overseas.
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In his
own comments , Biden emphasized the need to power Europe with non-Russian sources of
natural gas. This provided a prime opportunity to Ukrainian suppliers like Burisma and U.S.
energy titans. Many of these energy companies, from Chevron to Noble Energy, also happen to be
top
donors to the Atlantic Council.
"This would be a game-changer for Europe, in my view, and we're ready to do everything in
our power to help it happen," Biden promised his audience.
Joe Biden, second from right, while U.S. vice president, at 2011 Atlantic Council
distinguished leadership awards ceremony.
At the time, the Atlantic Council was pushing to ramp up the proxy war against pro-Russian
forces in Ukraine. In 2015, for instance, the think tank helped prepare a
proposal for arming the Ukrainian military with offensive weaponry like Javelin anti-tank
missiles.
Given that the Atlantic Council has been funded by the two manufacturers of the Javelin
system, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, this created at least the appearance of a conflict of
interest. In fact, the think tank
presented its Distinguished Business Leadership Award to Lockheed CEO Marillyn Hewson that
same year.
Dubious arrangements like these are not limited to arms manufacturers. Anders Aslund, a
neoliberal economist who helps oversee the Atlantic Council's programming on Russia and Eastern
Europe, was
quietly paid by a consortium of Latvian banks to write an October 2017 paper highlighting
the supposed progress they had made in battling corruption.
Aslund was asked to write the piece by Sally Painter, a longtime lobbyist for Latvian
financial institutions who was appointed to the Atlantic Council board in 2017. At the time,
one of those banks was seeking access to the U.S. market and facing allegations that it had
engaged in money laundering.
Pay-for-play collaborations have helped grow the Atlantic Council's annual revenue from $2
million to over $20 million in the past decade. In almost every case, the think tank has
churned out policy prescriptions that seem suited to its donors' interests.
Government contributors
to the Atlantic Council include Gulf monarchies, the U.S. State Department and various Turkish
interests.
... ... ...
Among the think tank's top individual contributors is Victor Pinchuk, one of the wealthiest
people in Ukraine and a prolific donor to the Clinton Foundation. Pinchuk donated
$8.6 million to the Clintons' non-profit throughout Hillary Clinton's tenure as secretary of
state.
Asked if Pinchuk was lobbying the State Department on Ukraine, his personal foundation told
The Wall Street Journal , "this cannot be seen as anything but a good thing."
Obama's 'Point Person' on Ukraine
In mainstream media reports about the Bidens, scarcely any attention is given to the
critical role that Joe Biden and other Obama administration officials played in the 2013-2014
Maidan revolt that replaced a fairly elected ,
Russian-oriented government with a Western vassal. In a relatively sympathetic New Yorker profile of Hunter Biden, for example, the regime change operation was
described by reporter Adam Entous as merely "public protests."
During the height of the "Revolution of Dignity" that played out in Kiev's Maidan Square,
then-Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland boasted that the U.S. had "invested $5 billion" since 1991 into
Ukrainian civil society. On a December 2013 tour of the Maidan, Nuland personally handed
out cookies to protesters alongside Geoffrey Pyatt, U.S. ambassador to Ukraine at the
time.
In a phone
conversation that leaked two months later, the two U.S. diplomats could be heard plotting
out the future government of the country, discussing Ukrainian politicians as though they were
chess pieces. "I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience," Nuland said,
essentially declaring Arseniy Yatsenyuk the next prime minister. Frustrated with the European
Union's reluctance to inflame tensions with Moscow, Nuland exclaimed, "Fuck the EU."
By February 2014, the Maidan revolt had succeeded in overthrowing President Viktor
Yanukovich with the help of far-right ultra-nationalist street muscle. With a new,
U.S.-approved government in power, Biden assumed a personal role in dictating Ukraine's
day-to-day affairs.
"No one in the U.S. government has wielded more influence over Ukraine than Vice President
Joe Biden," Foreign Policy
noted . The Atlantic Council also
described Biden as "the point person on Ukraine in the Obama administration."
"Ukraine was the top, or one of the top three, foreign policy issues we were concentrating
on," said
Carpenter, Biden's foreign policy adviser. "[Biden] was front and center."
Biden made his first visit to the post-Maidan government of Ukraine in April 2014, just
as Kiev was launching its "anti-terrorist operation" against separatists who broke off from the
new, NATO-oriented Ukraine and its nationalist government and formed so-called people's
republics in the Russophone Donbass region. The fragmentation of the country and its grinding
proxy war flowed directly from the regime-change operation that Biden helped oversee.
Addressing the parliament in Kiev, Biden
declared that "corruption can have no place in the new Ukraine," stating that the "United
States has also been a driving force behind the IMF, working to provide a multi-billion package
to help Ukraine."
That same month, Hunter Biden was appointed to the board of Burisma. Hunter Biden starred at
one of Burisma's energy conferences in Monaco, which are today sponsored by the Atlantic
Council.
Burisma Recruits Hunter Biden
The ouster of Yanukovych put the founder and president of Burisma, Mykola Zlochevsky, in a
delicate spot. Zlochevsky had served as the environment minister under Yanukovych, handing out
gas licenses to cronies. Having watched the president flee Ukraine for his life, currying favor
with the Obama administration was paramount for Zlochevsky.
He was also desperate to get out of legal trouble. At the time, a corruption investigation
in the U.K. had resulted in the freezing of $23 million of Zlochevsky's assets. Then, in August
2014, the oligarch was forced
to follow Yanukovych into exile after being accused of illegally enriching himself.
The need to refurbish Burisma's tattered image, as well as his own, prompted Zlochevsky to
resort to a tried and true tactic for shadowy foreign entities: forking over large sums of
money to win friends in Washington. Hunter Biden and the Atlantic Council were soon to become
two of his best friends.
Hunter Biden was no stranger to trading on his father's name for influence. He had served on
the board of Amtrak, the train line his father famously rode
more than 8,000 times, earning himself the nickname "Amtrak Joe." Somehow, he also rose to
senior vice president at MBNA, the bank that was the top contributor to Joe Biden's
Senate campaigns.
Moreover, the vice president's son reaped a board position at the
National Democratic Institute, a U.S.-funded "democracy promotion" organization that was
heavily involved in pushing regime change in Ukraine. And then there was Burisma, which handed
him a position on its board despite his total lack of experience in the energy industry and in
Ukrainian affairs.
Hunter Biden tried to repay the $50,000-a-month gig Zlochevsky had handed him by enlisting a
top D.C. law firm, Boies, Schiller, and Flexner, where he served as co-counsel, to
help "improve [Burisma's] corporate governance." By the following January, Zlochevsky's
assets were
unfrozen by the U.K.
Back in Washington, the arrangement between the son of the vice president and a less than
scrupulous Ukrainian oligarch was raising eyebrows. During a May 13, 2014, press conference,
Matt Lee of the Associated Press
grilled State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki about Hunter Biden's role on Burisma's
board.
"Does this building diplomatically have any concerns about potential perceptions of conflict
or cronyism – which is what you've often accused the Russians of doing?" Lee asked
Psaki.
"No, he's a private citizen," Psaki responded, referring to Hunter Biden.
In a December 2015 op-ed, the editorial board of The New York Timestook
both Bidens to task for the unseemly business arrangement: "It should be plain to Hunter
Biden that any connection with a Ukrainian oligarch damages his father's efforts to help
Ukraine. This is not a board he should be sitting on."
For a paper that had firmly supported the installation of a U.S.-aligned government in Kiev,
this was a striking statement.
Hunter Biden maintained that he had only a brief conversation with his father about his work
at Burisma. "Dad said, 'I hope you know what you are doing,' and I said, 'I do,'" Hunter
recalled to The New Yorker .
Despite his constant focus on Ukraine, the elder Biden claimed this September that he never
spoke to his son about his business dealings in the country.
Disaster for Ukrainians, Boon for the Bidens
On Jan. 12, 2017, the criminal probes of Zlochevsky and Burisma were officially closed under
the watch of a new Ukrainian prosecutor.
Less than a week later, Biden returned to Ukraine to make his
final speech as vice president. By this point, three years after the Maidan uprising
overthrew Yanukovych, it was clear that the national project the vice president personally had
presided over was a calamitous failure.
As even the Atlantic Council's Aslund was willing to admit
, Ukraine had become the poorest country in Europe. The country had also become the
top recipient of remittances in Europe, with a staggering percentage of its population
migrating abroad in search of work.
Meanwhile, Amnesty International stated : "Ukraine is
descending into chaos of uncontrolled use of force by radical [far-right] groups. Under these
conditions, no person in Ukraine may feel safe." As the country's proxy conflict with
pro-Russian separatists dragged on, it
transformed into a supermarket for the international arms trade.
Meanwhile, Biden's son Hunter was making a small fortune by simply warming a seat on
Burisma's board of directors.
During his 2017
press conference in Kiev, Biden seemed oblivious to the trends that were driving Ukraine
into ruin. He encouraged Ukraine's leadership to continue on an IMF-led path of privatization
and austerity.
He then urged Kiev to "press forward with energy reforms that are eliminating Ukraine's
dependence on Russian gas," once again advancing policy that would serve as a boon to the
energy firms plowing their cash into the Atlantic Council.
Mykola Zlochevsky, former employer of Hunter Biden and current partner of the Atlantic
Council.
Burisma Recruits the Atlantic Council
Even with Hunter Biden on his company's board, Zlochevsky was still seeking influential
allies in Washington. He found them at the Atlantic Council in 2017, literally hours after he
was cleared of corruption charges in Ukraine.
On Jan. 19, 2017 -- just two days after the investigation of Zlochevsky ended -- Burisma
announced a major "cooperative agreement" with the Atlantic Council. "It became possible to
sign a cooperative agreement between Burisma and the Atlantic Council after all charges against
Burisma Group companies and its owner [Mykola] Zlochevskyi were withdrawn," the
Kyiv Post reported at the time.
The deal was inked by the director of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia program, a former U.S.
ambassador to Ukraine named John Herbst.
Since then, Burisma helped bankroll Atlantic Council programming, including an
energy security conference held this May in Monaco, where Zlochevsky currently lives.
"[Zlochevsky] invited them purely for whitewashing purposes, to put them on the
façade and make this company look nice," Daria Kaleniuk, executive director of Ukraine's
Anti-Corruption Action Center, said of the Monaco event to The Financial Times .
At one such conference in Monaco, then-Burisma board member Hunter Biden declared, "One of
the reasons that I am proud to be a member of the board at Burisma is that I believe we are
trying to figure out the way to create a radical change in the way we look at energy." (Hunter
Biden left Burisma with $850,000 in earnings when his father launched his presidential campaign
this year).
While the Atlantic Council was bringing Burisma in from the cold, the company was still too
toxic for much of the business world to touch.
As The Financial Timesnoted ,
the American Chamber of Commerce in Ukraine had rejected Burisma's application for membership.
"We've never worked with them for integrity reasons. Never passed our due diligence," a Western
financial institution told the newspaper.
"The company just does not pass the smell test," a businessman in Ukraine told The
Financial Times . "Their reputation is far from squeaky clean because of their baggage, the
background and attempts to whitewash by bringing in recognizable Western names on to the
board."
In fact, a year before the Atlantic Council initiated its partnership with Burisma, the
think tank published a
paper describing Zlochevsky as "openly on the take" and deriding board members Hunter Biden
and former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski as his "trophy foreigners." (Kwasniewski is
today a member of the
Atlantic Council's international advisory board).
For Herbst, however, Burisma's generosity seemed too hard to resist.
"If there are companies that want to support my work, if those companies are not doing
anything that I know to be illegal or unethical, I'll consider their support," Herbst stated in
reply to questions about the Burisma partnership from the Ukrainian news site,
Hromadske .
"They've been good partners," he added.
Men of Integrity
The Atlantic Council has provided more than just a web of influence for figures like Biden
and Zlochevsky. It extended into the Trump administration, through a former employee who served
as the president's lead envoy to Ukraine.
On the sidelines of a September 2018 Atlantic Council event in New York City, Burisma
adviser Vadym Pozharskyi held a
meeting with Kurt Volker, then the State Department's special liaison to Ukraine. A
former senior adviser to the Atlantic Council and national security hardliner, Volker had
earned praise from Biden as a "solid guy."
At the time, Volker also served as the executive director of the McCain Institute, named for
the senator, John McCain, who authored the congressional provision requiring the U.S. to budget
20 percent of all aid to Ukraine for offensive weapons. As I
reported in 2017, the McCain Institute's financial backers included the BGR group, whose
designated lobbyist, Ed Rogers, was a lobbyist for Raytheon – the company that produced
the Javelin missiles that both Volker and the Atlantic Council wanted sold to Ukraine.
Following his abrupt resignation this September, Volker was called to testify before the
House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs on the so-called Ukrainegate affair.
There, he
defended Biden as "a man of integrity and dedication to our country" who would never be
"influenced in his duties as Vice President by money for his son "
Key Biden Adviser Joins Atlantic Council
Throughout Biden's tenure as the "point person" on Ukraine, one figure was constantly by his
side: Michael Carpenter, a former Pentagon specialist on Eastern Europe who became a key
adviser to Biden on the National Security Council. When Carpenter
traveled with Biden to Ukraine in 2015, he helped
provide the vice president with talking points throughout his trip.
Once Trump was inaugurated, Carpenter followed fellow members of the Democratic foreign
policy apparatus into the think tank world. He accepted a fellowship at the Atlantic
Council, and assumed a position as senior director of newly founded Penn Biden Center for
Diplomacy and Global Engagement, which
provided office space to Biden when he was in Washington.
At the Jan. 23, 2018 Council on Foreign Relations event where Biden made his now-notorious
comments about threatening the Ukrainian government with the withdrawal of a one billion dollar
loan if it did not fire Ukrainian Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin – "well son of a
bitch, he got fired!" Biden
exclaimed – Carpenter was by his side, rattling off tough talking points about
Russian interference. [Shokin testified under oath that Biden had him fired
because he was investigating Burisma.]
Since then, Carpenter has remained engaged in Ukrainian politics, throwing his weight behind
some of the country's most hardline elements. In July 2018, for instance, he helped welcome
Andriy Parubiy , the speaker of the Rada (the Ukrainian parliament), to a series of
meetings on Capitol Hill.
Parubiy is the founder of the Social-National Party, which The Washington Post's
Eugene Robinson
described as "openly neo-fascist." In fact, Parubiy appeared in a Nazi-style uniform,
packing a pistol beneath a Wolfsangel symbol on the cover of his Mein Kampf-style memoir, "A
View From The Right."
After the Senate meeting with Parubiy, I challenged Carpenter over bringing the far-right
politician to Capitol Hill. "Andriy Parubiy is a conservative nationalist who is also a patriot
who cares about his country," Carpenter told me. "I don't think he has any neo-Nazi
inclinations, nor background." He went on to dismiss the basis of my question as "mostly
Russian propaganda."
Months later, Carpenter staged a meltdown on Twitter over the incident, fabricating quotes by
me, branding me as a "sleeze"
[sic] and "pro-Asad and pro-Putin scumbag," while falsely and baselessly claiming I "enlist[ed]
RT," the Russian-backed news network, "to do an exposé on him."
Asked by The Grayzone about Carpenter's work for a think tank funded by Burisma while
simultaneously involving himself in Biden's political machine, Atlantic Council media relations
deputy director Alex Kisling stated, "Council staff and fellows are free to participate in
election activity as individuals and on their own time, provided they do so in a way that could
not be seen as acting as a representative of the Council or implying Council endorsement of
their activity or views. Michael's affiliations and previous service are on our website. (He is
not part of our full time staff)."
The Penn Biden Center did not respond to a question on whether it supported Carpenter's work
at the Burisma-backed Atlantic Council.
As the scrutiny of Biden's dealings in Ukraine intensifies, Carpenter has thrust himself
into the media limelight to defend his longtime boss.
In an Oct. 7 Washington Post
op-ed denouncing Trump's "smear campaign" against Biden, Carpenter insisted that Biden had
gone to great lengths to remove the Ukrainian prosecutor, Shokin, for his failure to take
action against Burisma. That evening, Carpenter
took to Rachel Maddow's show on MSNBC to reinforce the message that Biden moved against
"corrupt players" in Ukraine, presumably referring to Burisma.
At no point did he mention that Burisma was funding the think tank that hosted him as a
senior fellow.
In publishing an
"explainer" purporting to debunk the charges against Biden, the Atlantic Council also
failed to mention its ongoing relationship with Burisma. Atlantic Council media relations
deputy director Kisling dismissed the non-disclosure, telling The Grayzone , "The
Council discloses its funding from Burisma on its website and whenever asked." (Ironically, the
Atlantic Council has
pushed for greater transparency in political advertising on Facebook, one of the top donors
to the think tank).
Perhaps the most absurd omission took place in a
GQ article about Ukrainegate by reporter and Russia-watcher Julia Ioffe. In painting
Ukraine -- the largest nation entirely located in Europe -- as a "small country" drowning in
corruption, Ioffe noted, "the best way to launder one's shady reputation and shine for
international investors is to hire big-name Western consultants – as Burisma did."
In the very next paragraph, Ioffe quoted Daniel Fried, a former State Department official
now serving as a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council. "It's a country where there's a lot of
freelance money and a lot of competing interests," Fried remarked.
Revealingly, Ioffe failed to acknowledge that Fried was one of those "big-named Western
consultants" helping to launder Zlochevsky and Burisma's "shady reputation" through the
Atlantic Council.
In fact, Fried was
photographed in a one-on-one meeting with Burisma advisor Vadim Pozharskyi at a September
2018 Atlantic Council conference in New York City.
As the furor over "Ukrainegate" continues, Biden and his allies are soldiering ahead,
insisting that scrutiny of his activities in Ukraine constitute nothing more than a vast
right-wing conspiracy.
Meanwhile, the Beltway press shrugs at Burisma's buying of influence at a powerful think
tank intertwined with Biden's political operation.
Russia might be a "kleptocracy" and Ukraine might endemically corrupt, but in Washington,
this is all business as usual.
Max Blumenthal is an award-winning journalist and the author of books including best-selling
" Republican
Gomorrah ," " Goliath ," "
The
Fifty One Day War " and " The Management of
Savagery ." He has also produced numerous print articles for an array of publications, many
video reports and several documentaries including " Killing Gaza " and " Je Ne Suis Pas Charlie ." Blumenthal founded the Grayzone
Project in 2015 to shine a journalistic light on America's state of perpetual war and its
dangerous domestic repercussions.
Robert , October 15, 2019 at 13:50
Thank you for the excellent research. I'll add that the Department of State's contribution
to Atlantic Council is $1 million annually of US taxpayer dollars. Christopher Hunter, a
lawyer with the DOJ when Trump was elected, resigned and ran unsuccessfully for Congress as a
Democrat, then parachuted into Atlantic Council as a Senior Fellow. Several weeks ago, in an
interview with Al Jazeera, he affirmed that Trump should definitely be impeached. Although
introduced as a Fellow of the Atlantic Council, he did nothing to indicate that he was in a
conflict of interest position because of Burisma donations to the Council or that his
opinions were not those of the Atlantic Council. Essentially, US tax $$ are being used to
promote the impeachment of the President of the United States.
Karl Brantz , October 15, 2019 at 12:27
Excellent investigative journalism from Max Blumenthal and Grayzone! The death and
destruction wrought in Ukraine by both U.S. political party operatives is appalling, as is
their horrendous murders of civilians and combatants alike throughout the world today. That
journalists go forth every day to document this atrocious conduct, risking their freedom and
their lives to uncover the truth is an amazing and courageous service to the citizens of our
world. I have nothing but praise for them. I only wish that some one would turn their
piercing perception and integrity upon the apparently untouchable yet still festering account
of the truth of the 9/11 events. All the facts are available and many of the perps are still
walking around. I'm dying to know just what was going on as Dick Cheney commandeered the PEOC
on that fateful morning. Or what took place at Offutt AFB as the towers were blown to dust in
NYC. We've got a fairly good idea thanks to the last 19 years of research and reporting, but
this story never seems to rise above the traditional scandal/bribery/corruption/war news that
daily rains down upon the hapless plebes.
Bob in Portland , October 15, 2019 at 12:15
More inconvenience for the Atlantic Council: When the DNC claimed that Russia hacked its
computers, it never allowed the FBI or any other intelligence agency to examine the
computers. Instead, they used a private company, Crowdstrike. CrowdStrike, owned by Dmitri
Alperovitch, still is the only known entity to have examined those computers. Dmitri
Alperovitch has a chair at the Atlantic Council. Readers here at ConsortiumNews know all the
flaws, okay, lies that William Binney uncovered.
So the Russiagate claims against Russia were generated by cold warriors to justify a
warmer war against Russia. Poor Hunter was caught in the graft that surrounds the US's
relationship with Ukraine.
In World War Two the Nazis ran the fascists in Ukraine who in turn ran Operation
Nightingale, the genocidal program to kill the Jews and other ethnic enemies of Berlin's
thinkers. After WWII the US, very soon represented by the CIA, supported a rebel force in
Ukraine against the USSR. The US also embraced the Ukrainian fascists, being a part of the
Republican Heritage Council. Members were imported into the US under the CIA's Crusade For
Freedom. Ronald Reagan, the spokesman for CFF, first used his "freedom fighter" describing
these Ukrainian fascists with the term later resurrected for the death squads and
anti-democratic forces in Latin America.
Burisma has been described at Moon Of Alabama as a money-laundering entity.
Poor Hunter. Welcome to the working week.
Skip Scott , October 15, 2019 at 12:09
This is a great article that gets into the nitty-gritty of UkraineGate. There is no doubt
in this day and age that "the Mighty Wurlitzer" will drown out the facts presented here. If
Biden becomes too difficult of a sell for the Oligarchy, they have plenty of other servants
to choose from.
robert e williamson jr , October 15, 2019 at 11:57
I'm no religious zealot. After 70 years on the planet I'm firmly agnostic and view too
many organized religions with great dread., that said I suspect that these NGO non-profits
such as the Atlantic Council are simply fronts for the U.S. intelligence community.
If churches tried to get away with what these think tanks do going through millions of
dollars to lobby for special interest groups they would surely lose the their tax exempt
status. Something I feel very strongly the IRS should investigate also.
Or would they. I suspect the IRS could care less about either type of entity considering
that the Service is so under funded it cannot enforce the tax laws on the books, but that
story is for a different time.
I keep reading these headlines which seem to cry "surprise, we found corruption here"!
Give me a break by now everyone should see it coming.
The "King of Orange" is still publicly boring holes in the hull of the Ship of State and
nothing happens except Dims and Repugs claim some honor in joining to condemn a foreign EU
allied country for doing what "The King of Orange" approved that he do.
The problem here is not Turkey, my friends, the problem is the U.S. intelligence community
and the corrupt think tanks fronts that facilitate their evil machinations.
Thank you Max for the expose' obviously far too many American are fooled by this B.S.
stuff that goes on in D.C.
Drew Hunkins , October 15, 2019 at 11:15
The AC is arguably the most potentially dangerous organization in the world today. It's
essentially a Bill Kristol neo-conservative outfit that's set on destroying any semblance of
an independent Russia. It's closely connected to the Atlanticist Integrationists in
Moscow.
The AC's a de facto NATO think [sic] tank that could possibly lead the world to nuclear
war. It also totally belies the notion that Putin is somehow under the thumb of
Netanyahu.
Eugenie Basile , October 15, 2019 at 11:13
The whole Ukraine story is an enormous blunder for the West . not only did it give Russia
the opportunity to reclaim Crimea but the West now also has to finance a corrupt, unstable
and bankrupt country. Not funny !
Robert , October 15, 2019 at 11:06
Excellent research. The deep state is indeed international and takes care of its own.
Christopher Hunter, who, after Trump's election, resigned from the DOJ, then ran
unsuccessfully as a Democratic candidate for Congress, was then parachuted into the Atlantic
Council as senior fellow. He then proceeded to provide expert advice to Al Jazeera about why
Trump should be impeached. So you now have the US State Department paying $1 million tax
dollars to the Atlantic Council, at least one member of which is using his "expertise" to
impeach President Trump.
The article notes that Hunter Biden left Ukraine with $850K. Does that include any fees he
might have collected as co-counsel noted below?
"Hunter Biden tried to repay the $50,000-a-month gig Zlochevsky had handed him by
enlisting a top D.C. law firm, Boies, Schiller, and Flexner, where he served as co-counsel,
to help "improve [Burisma's] corporate governance." By the following January, Zlochevsky's
assets were unfrozen by the U.K."
Curious.
michael , October 15, 2019 at 07:48
Dmitri Alperovitch, Hillary's own Russian Head of Crowdstrike and a Senior Fellow at the
Atlantic Council, went to great lengths to prove that RUSSIANS!!! had hacked into Ukrainian
artillery, and claimed the same methodology was used to prove that RUSSIANS!!! had hacked
into the DNC.
These were Crowdstrike's bonafides (and thus no reason to look closely at the
DNC servers). Of course, it later turned out that the Russians had NOT hacked Ukrainian
artillery, Crowdstrike had lied, and hacking of the DNC was more likely initially done by
Crowdstrike/ New Knowledge and the Atlantic Council, not the Russians.
Think tanks should be responsible, with jail times and fines, for the discord they sow.
Sally Snyder , October 15, 2019 at 07:15
There is a binding treaty between the United States and Ukraine that would serve as a
precedent for Donald Trump's request.
Interestingly, the mainstream media in the United States has almost completely ignored
this reality their haste to impeach the current president.
Daryl , October 15, 2019 at 04:51
My take is that this Zlochevsky and his energy co. was identified and targeted while he
was part of the govt the US helped to overthrow. Rather than the story of a Ukrainian seeking
western favor, i suspect he was made an offer he could not refuse.
The UK seizure of the
23mil was not accidental, i expect the US had all the banks of Europe watching this guys
asset for this leverage. So they freeze his money, open a criminal investigation and put him
on a wanted list.
Just a couple weeks later Biden joins the board. This was a State Dept/CIA
play.
They went to Zlochevsky or the oligarch behind him and presented them with the only way
out of ruin. Several months later, UK unfreezes 23mil and closes the case. USAID comes calling
on Burisma, Atlantic Council attaches themselves. This was a well planned takeover and Biden
was a beneficiary, but doing the bidding of the hidden hands.
Jeff Harrison , October 15, 2019 at 00:02
The sarcasm at the end is great. I have only one comment. This piece, like so many others
about Ukraine uses the phrase "pro-Russian forces in Ukraine". That's crap. Yeah, they are
pro Russian, but more importantly, they are ethnically Russian and when you have a regime in
Kiev that is trying to suck up to the US and passing anti Russian and Russian language
legislation and breaking all ties to Russia to please their masters in Washington, is it a
surprise that those ethnic Russian Ukrainians might look for a champion?
Abby , October 14, 2019 at 23:11
Wow. This article is a must read for people to get up to date on the Ukraine coup. On
Hunter and Joe ByeDone's actions after it and the many players involved. Well done, Max!
But Russia right?
Yet another female neocon hawk of the mold of Samantha Power. Hillary have found not only
Nuland, but several of them ;-) She denied that Nulandgate create a civil war in Ukraine to
advance the US geopolitical goals. She also denied influencing Ukrainian leadership, while in
reality Ukraine now is governed from the US embassy (which is sometimes called by locals called
Washington Obcom) . Such a hypocrite.
As for "do not prosecute" list -- do not believe anything government officials say
until it is officially denied.
And that EuroMaydan actually promote corruption to the level unheard during Yanukovich tenure
but with different players.
Notable quotes:
"... creates an environment in which U.S. business can more easily trade, invest and profit. ..."
"... the Embassy's April 2016 letter to the Prosecutor General's Office about the investigation into the Anti-Corruption Action Center or AntAC ..."
"... the departure from office of former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin ..."
"... As Mr. Lutsenko, the former Ukrainian Prosecutor General has recently acknowledged, the notion that I created or disseminated a "do not prosecute" list is completely false ..."
"... Equally fictitious is the notion that I am disloyal to President Trump. I have heard the allegation in the media that I supposedly told the Embassy team to ignore the President's orders "since he was going to be impeached." That allegation is false. I have never said such a thing, to my Embassy colleagues or to anyone else. ..."
"... I have never met Hunter Biden, nor have I had any direct or indirect conversations with him. And although I have met former Vice President Biden several times over the course of our many years in government, neither he nor the previous Administration ever, directly or indirectly, raised the issue of either Burisma or Hunter Biden with me. ..."
"... With respect to Mayor Giuliani, I have had only minimal contacts with him -- a total of three that I recall. None related to the events at issue. I do not know Mr. Giuliani's motives for attacking me. But individuals who have been named in the press as contacts of Mr. Giuliani may well have believed that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our anti-corruption policy in Ukraine. ..."
The Revolution of Dignity, and the Ukrainian people's demand to end corruption, forced the
new Ukrainian government to take measures to fight the rampant corruption that long permeated
that country's political and economic systems. We have long understood that strong
anti-corruption efforts must form an essential part of our policy in Ukraine; now there was a
window of opportunity to do just that.
Why is this important? Put simply: anti-corruption efforts serve Ukraine's interests. They
serve ours as well. Corrupt leaders are inherently less trustworthy, while an honest and
accountable Ukrainian leadership makes a U.S.-Ukraine partnership more reliable and more
valuable to the U.S. A level playing field in this strategically located country -- one with a
European landmass exceeded only by Russia and with one of the largest populations in Europe --
creates an environment in which U.S. business can more easily trade, invest and
profit. Corruption is a security issue as well, because corrupt officials are vulnerable
to Moscow. In short, it is in our national security interest to help Ukraine transform into a
country where the rule of law governs and corruption is held in check.
Two Wars
But change takes time, and the aspiration to instill rule-of-law values has still not been
fulfilled. Since 2014, Ukraine has been at war, not just with Russia, but within itself, as
political and economic forces compete to determine what kind of country Ukraine will become:
the same old, oligarch-dominated Ukraine where corruption is not just prevalent, but is the
system? Or the country that Ukrainians demanded in the Revolution of Dignity -- a country where
rule of law is the system, corruption is tamed, and people are treated equally and according to
the law? During the 2019 presidential elections, the Ukrainian people answered that question
once again. Angered by insufficient progress in the fight against corruption, Ukrainian voters
overwhelmingly elected a man who said that ending corruption would be his number one priority.
The transition, however, created fear among the political elite, setting the stage for some of
the issues I expect we will be discussing today.
... ... ...
I arrived in Ukraine on August 22, 2016 and left Ukraine permanently on May 20, 2019.
Several of the events with which you may be concerned occurred before I was even in
country.
Here are just a few:
the release of the so-called "Black Ledger" and Mr. Manafort's subsequent resignation
from the Trump campaign;
the Embassy's April 2016 letter to the Prosecutor General's Office about the
investigation into the Anti-Corruption Action Center or AntAC ; and
the departure from office of former Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin .
Several other events occurred after I was recalled from Ukraine. These include:
President Trump's July 25 call with President Zelenskiy;
All of the discussions surrounding that phone call; and
Any discussions surrounding the reported delay of security assistance to Ukraine in
Summer 2019.
During my Tenure in Ukraine
As for events during my tenure in Ukraine, I want to categorically state that I have
never myself or through others, directly or indirectly, ever directed, suggested, or in any
other way asked for any government or government official in Ukraine (or elsewhere) to
refrain from investigating or prosecuting actual corruption. As Mr. Lutsenko, the former
Ukrainian Prosecutor General has recently acknowledged, the notion that I created or
disseminated a "do not prosecute" list is completely false -- a story that Mr. Lutsenko,
himself, has since retracted.
Equally fictitious is the notion that I am disloyal to President Trump. I have heard
the allegation in the media that I supposedly told the Embassy team to ignore the President's
orders "since he was going to be impeached." That allegation is false. I have never said such
a thing, to my Embassy colleagues or to anyone else.
Next, the Obama administration did not ask me to help the Clinton campaign or harm the
Trump campaign, nor would I have taken any such steps if they had.
I have never met Hunter Biden, nor have I had any direct or indirect conversations
with him. And although I have met former Vice President Biden several times over the course
of our many years in government, neither he nor the previous Administration ever, directly or
indirectly, raised the issue of either Burisma or Hunter Biden with me.
With respect to Mayor Giuliani, I have had only minimal contacts with him -- a total
of three that I recall. None related to the events at issue. I do not know Mr. Giuliani's
motives for attacking me. But individuals who have been named in the press as contacts of Mr.
Giuliani may well have believed that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our
anti-corruption policy in Ukraine.
"... Solomon said Tuesday on " Hannity " that the U.S. government knew Ukraine was planning to look again into activities at Burisma Holdings, an energy company that employed then-Vice President Joe Biden's son as a member of its board of directors, early this year . The report is noteworthy because President Trump has been accused by Democrats of threatening in July to withhold foreign aid to Ukraine unless its new president pursued an investigation into the company and the younger Biden's role there. ..."
"... Solomon said the timeline of the alleged "illicit funds" coincided in part with the time Hunter Biden held a place on the firm's board . The younger Biden was reportedly paid as much as $1 million per year for his time on the board, but Solomon said investigators in Ukraine filed a 15-page "notice of suspicion" indicating they were "looking at the possibility that the $3.4 million paid to Hunter Biden's firm may have been part of the illicit funds that were moving through the company. " ..."
A new report from recent Fox News
hire John Solomon tosses gasoline on the dumpster-fire narrative at the heart of an
impeachment inquiry launched after a CIA officer filed a whistleblower complaint, alleging
President Trump abused his office by 'pressuring' the president of Ukraine to investigate Joe
Biden and his son Hunter for corruption.
According to Solomon, a new document "shows that Ukrainian officials had opened a new probe
into the firm linked to Hunter Biden months before President Trump's phone call with that
country's leader."
Solomon said Tuesday on " Hannity " that the U.S. government knew Ukraine was
planning to look again into activities at Burisma Holdings, an energy company that employed
then-Vice President Joe Biden's son as a member of its board of directors, early this year .
The report is noteworthy because President Trump has been accused by Democrats of threatening
in July to withhold foreign aid to Ukraine unless its new president pursued an investigation
into the company and the younger Biden's role there.
" The U.S. government had open-source intelligence and was aware as early as February of
2019 that the Ukrainian government was planning to reopen the Burisma investigation ," he
claimed. "This is long before the president ever imagined having a call with President
Zelensky," he added, noting Petro Poroshenko was still Ukraine's president at that time . -
Fox News
According to Solomon, Ukraine's NABU anti-corruption agency requested reopening a probe into
Burisma and its owner Mykola Zlochevsky.
According to the report, "The investigation then went forward, Solomon said. The new probe
later resulted in a "Notice of Suspicion" being filed, alleging the existence of "illicit
funds" running through the fir m, Solomon also claimed."
Solomon said his reporting revealed the requested reopening of the probe into Burisma
involved, in part, "unusual transactions" in the natural gas giant's accounts.
Solomon said the timeline of the alleged "illicit funds" coincided in part with the time
Hunter Biden held a place on the firm's board . The younger Biden was reportedly paid as much
as $1 million per year for his time on the board, but Solomon said investigators in Ukraine
filed a 15-page "notice of suspicion" indicating they were "looking at the possibility that
the $3.4 million paid to Hunter Biden's firm may have been part of the illicit funds that
were moving through the company. "
"A month later, in April, the prosecutor's office -- open-source intelligence, again --
the U.S. government officials confirming they were aware of this -- made a request of another
investigative agency in Ukraine for assistance in going through these bank records," Solomon
claimed. -
Fox News
"That is a significant change in the timeline," said Solomon, adding "it was omitted from
the whistleblower's complaint, and the question is did he not know it or did he exclude it
because it didn't fit the narrative he was trying to write."
"... Ukrainian MP Andriy Derkach revealed on Wednesday that former Vice President Joe Biden received $900,000 from Burisma Group for lobbying activities , citing materials related to an investigation. ..."
"... "According to the documents, Burisma paid no less than $16.5 million to [former Polish President, who became an independent director at Burisma Holdings in 2014] Aleksander Kwasniewski, [chairman of the Burisma board of independent directors] Alan Apter, [Burisma independent director] Devon Archer and Hunter Biden [who joined the Burisma board of directors in 2014]," Derkach added. ..."
"... Derkach says he will publish the leaked documents on his Facebook account, and will initiate the creation of an ad hoc parliamentary investigative commission, " and has already requested launching a criminal case against Ukrainian officials into interference into U.S. elections ," according to the report. ..."
Ukrainian MP Andriy Derkach revealed on Wednesday that
former Vice President Joe Biden
received $900,000 from Burisma Group for lobbying activities
, citing materials related to an
investigation.
Former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden received
$900,000 for lobbying activities from
Burisma Group
, Ukraine's Verkhovna Rada member Andriy Derkach said citing
investigation materials.
Derkach publicized documents which, as he said, "
describe the mechanism of getting money
by Biden Sr.
" at a press conference at Interfax-Ukraine's press center in Kyiv on
Wednesday. -
Interfax
"
This was the transfer of Burisma Group's funds for lobbying activities
, as
investigators believe,
personally to Joe Biden
through a lobbying company.
Funds in the amount of $900,000 were transferred to the U.S.-based company Rosemont Seneca Partners
,
which according to open sources, in particular, the New York Times, is affiliated with Biden. The
payment reference was payment for consultative services," said Derkach.
Derkach also puiblicized sums of money transferred to Burisma Group representatives -
including Joe Biden's son Hunter.
"According to the documents, Burisma paid no less than $16.5 million to [former Polish President,
who became an independent director at Burisma Holdings in 2014] Aleksander Kwasniewski, [chairman of
the Burisma board of independent directors] Alan Apter, [Burisma independent director] Devon Archer
and Hunter Biden [who joined the Burisma board of directors in 2014]," Derkach added.
"Using political and economic levelers of influencing Ukrainian authorities and manipulating the
issue of providing financial aid to Ukraine,
Joe Biden actively assisted closing criminal
cases into the activity of former Ukrainian Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, who is the founder and
owner of Burisma Group.
"
"Biden's fifth visit to Kyiv on December 7-8, 2015 was devoted to making a decision on the
resignation of [then Ukrainian Prosecutor General] Viktor Shokin over the case of Zlochevsky and
Burisma. Loan guarantees worth $1 billion that the United States was to give to Ukraine was the point
of pressure. Biden himself admitted exerting pressure in his speech at the Council of Foreign
Relations in January 2018, calling Shokin 'son of a bitch who was fired'," Derkach added.
The timeline of events proves that the U.S. linked the Zlochevsky case to loan
guarantees, he said.
After the decree dismissing Shokin was published on April 3, 2016, the governments of the United
States and Ukraine signed a loan guarantee agreement worth $1 billion, several months later, on
June 3, he said.
"In this case, there are facts should be subject to investigation. There is an agency that has
powers to investigate them; the U.S. Department of Justice. If the Ukrainian Prosecutor General
signs documents and send them to U.S. Department of Justice without any requests, he will
accomplish his mission," he said, adding that the Ukrainian Prosecutor General has such powers.
"Considering international corruption in public is a way-out for President Zelensky. I am
certain that he is not involved in international corruption," Derkach said.
It was reported earlier that Derkach publicized correspondence between the National
Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) and officers of the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv. According to
publicized correspondence, starting from July 14, 2017, the lists of criminal proceedings
undertaken by NABU officers were sent from the electronic mailbox of Polina Chyzh, an assistant to
NABU first deputy head Gizo Uglava, to the electronic mailbox of Hanna Yemelianova, a legal
specialist of the anti-corruption program of the U.S. Justice Department at U.S. Embassy in
Ukraine.
Derkach says he will publish the leaked documents on his Facebook account, and will
initiate
the creation of an ad hoc parliamentary investigative commission,
"
and has already
requested launching a criminal case against Ukrainian officials into interference into U.S. elections
,"
according to the report.
Be interesting to see what, if anything, China does about trump's request for campaign aid.
"We Had the Quid, Now We Have the Quo
Ukraine has gotten its $400 million in military assistance and its visit to the White
House, where President Zelensky dutifully reported that he had felt no pressure from the
Trump administration to open an investigation into the Biden family. So this, I suppose, is
just an amazing coincidence:
'Ukraine's new chief prosecutor said Friday his office will conduct an "audit" of an
investigation into Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company that had recruited Hunter Biden for its
board.
Prosecutor General Ruslan Ryaboshapka reiterated at a news conference Friday that he knows
of no evidence of criminal activity by Biden. He said that he is aware of at least 15
investigations that may have touched on Burisma, its owner Nikolai Zlochevsky, an associate
named Serhiy Zerchenko, and Biden, and that all will be reviewed. He said no foreign or
Ukrainian official has been in touch with him to request this audit.'
See? Ryaboshapka has been on vacation on Mars for the past few months and just got back.
And when he did, he immediately turned around to his deputy and said, "Hey, we really need to
audit the investigations of Burisma. It just seems like the right thing to do."
Private prisons, detention centers, Saudi Arabia, Russia, ... these deals were all made
before the election in 2016. Who amongst Trump's circle made them? This is what needs be
brought out.
"... The intemperate comments of an imperial-minded candidate for the presidency ..."
"... The democrat coup/impeach/coup machine suffers is bi-polar disorder. Every they way fill the military industry complex trough! In their war manic state they supress freedom fighters, and arm their jailers, in their war depress state they support rioters in Hong Kong. If Donbass rebels were in Macao they would get US support, in Dobass the US will suppress freedom. ..."
"... With Ukraine, because the democrat neocons want to surround Russia, US national security arms Ukriane to forcibly put down Donbass as they attempt some form of "self determination". ..."
"... In the case of Hong Kong because US is enemy to the PRC (Red China at Menzie Chinn blog) the US is all for self determination, like Hitler was for pulling Sudetenland out of Czechoslovakia in 1938! ..."
"... This bipolar morality fits with deep state surveillance on Trump in 2016 and in 2019 claiming Trump doing it to Biden so that Trump/DoJ cannot fight corrupt (all) democrats ever! ..."
Is Time for the United States to Stand Up to China in Hong Kong
Tweets aren't enough. Washington must make clear that it expects Beijing to live up to its
commitments -- and it will respond when China does not.
By ELIZABETH WARREN
It Is Time for the United States to Stand Up to China in Hong Kong
Tweets aren't enough. Washington must make clear that it expects Beijing to live up to its
commitments -- and it will respond when China does not.
By ELIZABETH WARREN
[ Shocking and appalling; unethical and immoral; discrediting. The intemperate comments of an imperial-minded candidate for the presidency. ]
The democrat coup/impeach/coup machine suffers is bi-polar disorder. Every they way fill the
military industry complex trough!
In their war manic state they supress freedom fighters, and arm their jailers, in their
war depress state they support rioters in Hong Kong. If Donbass rebels were in Macao they would get US support, in Dobass the US will suppress
freedom.
With Ukraine, because the democrat neocons want to surround Russia, US national security
arms Ukriane to forcibly put down Donbass as they attempt some form of "self
determination".
In the case of Hong Kong because US is enemy to the PRC (Red China at Menzie Chinn blog)
the US is all for self determination, like Hitler was for pulling Sudetenland out of
Czechoslovakia in 1938!
This bipolar morality fits with deep state surveillance on Trump in 2016 and in 2019
claiming Trump doing it to Biden so that Trump/DoJ cannot fight corrupt (all) democrats
ever!
This "corruption" meme is simply hilarious. Even the deplorables cannot believe it is true.
Well, other than the brain dead.
"On Friday, though, the GOP Ratchets Up Pressure on Biden and Schiff narrative train got
derailed a bit. One blow was delivered by CNBC's Eamon Javers, who asked Trump the simple
question of which other cases of alleged corruption he is pursuing besides the one that
involves his potential 2020 election opponent. In reply, Javers got what by Trump standards
is a straight-up acknowledgment of having been stumped:
MSNBC
✔
@MSNBC
Replying to @MSNBC
WATCH: @EamonJavers: "Have you asked foreign leaders for any corruption investigations
that don't involve your political opponents?"
President Trump: "You know, we would have to look"
Then Republican Utah Sen. Mitt Romney articulated the implication of that non-answer in
what, by Romney standards, was a devastating frontal attack:
Mitt Romney
✔
@MittRomney
When the only American citizen President Trump singles out for China's investigation is
his political opponent in the midst of the Democratic nomination process, it strains
credulity to suggest that it is anything other than politically motivated.
171K
9:02 AM - Oct 4, 2019
Mitt Romney
✔
@MittRomney
Replying to @MittRomney
By all appearances, the President's brazen and unprecedented appeal to China and to
Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden is wrong and appalling.
84.5K
9:02 AM - Oct 4, 2019
Romney is stating the obvious: All the available evidence -- including the evidence
supplied by Trump -- says the president tried to use Ukraine to do a political hit job for
him; none of the evidence supports the alternative theory that this was part of an earnest
anti-corruption crusade. But the fact that Romney is the one who stated it provides a tiller
for evenhanded journalists and non-zealot voters to hold amid the swirling storm of alternate
reality disinformation that the rest of his party is emitting.
The [neo]liberal mob was standing around with their torches and pitchforks in a state of
shock.
Doctor Mueller, the "monster hunter," had let Trumpenstein slip through his fingers.
The supposedly ironclad case against him had turned out to be a bunch of lies made up by
the Intelligence Community, the Democratic Party, and the corporate media.
Russiagate was officially dead . The President of the United States was not a Russian
secret agent. No one was blackmailing anyone with a videotape of Romanian prostitutes peeing
on a bed where Obama once slept.
All that had happened was, millions of liberals had been subjected to the most elaborate
psyop in the history of elaborate deep state psyops which, ironically, had only further
strengthened Trumpenstein, who was out there on the Portico balcony, shotgunning Diet Cokes
with one hand and shaking his junk at the mob with the other.
California Republican Rep. Devin Nunes on the whistleblower complaint against Trump, the IG
report on alleged FISA abuse and privacy concerns with big tech.
We already have Obama talking to Putin representative on a hot mic quote: "tell vladimir
that I will have more flexibility after the election." Flexibility for what?
"... Of course, I understand your motives for Impeachment are not wholly altruistic. With corporate donations drying up and growing pressure from Progressive primary challengers making Establishment incumbents increasingly nervous, you need some way to excite your old school base for the important election season to come. ..."
Thank you so much for inviting me to your Impeachment Party. It's really great to hear
you've finally found something to nail Trump with. Good for you! You've been looking so hard
these past three years. So nice to see all that effort finally pay off!
(Of course, some might say you should have spent that time looking for solutions to all the
problems the country is facing, but hey, let's not get crazy! Right?) And your amazing valor
doesn't stop at Biden. Oh no. You are even willing to let Republicans dredge up Hillary's email
scandal long after people had all but forgotten about Crowdstrike. The Romans who stood in
front of the charging elephants at Cannae would be proud.
... ... ...
Of course, I understand your motives for Impeachment are not wholly altruistic. With
corporate donations drying up and growing pressure from Progressive primary challengers making
Establishment incumbents increasingly nervous, you need some way to excite your old school base
for the important election season to come.
That's why it's even more testament to your pluck that you would choose such a transparently
hypocritical and overtly political hill on which to take your final stand, especially after
2016 showed so clearly that going after Trump personally only makes him more popular.
So I
say onward Impeachment soldier!
By the time the primaries roll around, your brave Establishment beserkers will have divided
the party and discredited the leadership to such an extent that rank and file Dems will be
begging for a Progressive intervention.
"... The first casualty of Pelosi's cause is almost certain to be the front-runner for the party nomination. Joe Biden has already, this past week, fallen behind Senator Elizabeth Warren in Iowa, New Hampshire, and California. ..."
"... By making Ukraine the focus of the impeachment drive in the House, Pelosi has also assured that the questionable conduct of Biden and son Hunter will be front and center for the next four months before Iowa votes. ..."
"... What did Joe do? By his own admission, indeed his boast, as vice president, he ordered then-Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko to either fire the prosecutor who was investigating the company that hired Hunter Biden for $50,000 a month or forego a $1 billion U.S. loan guarantee that Kiev needed to stay current on its debts. ..."
"... There is another question raised by Biden's ultimatum to Kiev to fire the corrupt prosecutor or forego the loan guarantee. Why was the U.S. guaranteeing loans to a Kiev regime that had to be threatened with bankruptcy to get it to rid itself of a prosecutor whom all of Europe supposedly knew to be corrupt? ..."
"... This is bad news for the Biden campaign. And the principal beneficiary of Pelosi's decision that put Joe and Hunter Biden at the center of an impeachment inquiry is, again, Warren. ..."
"... Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of ..."
"... . To find out more about Patrick Buchanan and read features by other Creators writers and cartoonists, visit the Creators website at www.creators.com. ..."
"... the Movers and Shakers in the Democrat Party have wanted Warren as their standard bearer on the belief that Biden is "yesterday" and that the rest of the field is either too loony (O'Rourke), nondescript (Booker) or -- potentially -- too corrupt (Harris).. ..."
"... Warren is the most pro-establishment candidate of all the non-establishment candidates, that is true ..."
"... Roughly 37% of Americans love Trump and will never change their mind. On the other side there are 38% who already supported impeachment based on previous investigations. That leaves 25% of Americans who are likely to be swayed one way or the other over this. In any case, those 25% are unlikely to be on this website. ..."
"... It'll be interesting to see what the voter turnout will be in 2020. 2016 --one of the most pivotal and controversial elections in modern times--saw 42% of the electorate stay home. This was a shockingly high numbter, little noted in the press. If you tack on the 6% who voted for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, that would mean that 48% of the electorate--nearly half--did NOT vote for either Trump or Clinton. ..."
"... Well, given that Trump has already released the transcript and Zelensky has already confirmed there were no pressure in their conversation plus said that Hunter's case is to be investigated by the AG, any impeachment hearings can only be damaging to those who decide to go further with them, because, as it turns out, there is no basis for such hearings and they were started a year before the election, showing what those who started them think regarding their own chances to win. ..."
Even before seeing the transcript of the July 25 call between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky,
Nancy Pelosi threw the door wide open to impeachment.
Though the transcript did not remotely justify the advanced billing of a "quid pro quo," Pelosi set in motion a process that is
already producing a sea change in the politics of 2020.
The great Beltway battle for the balance of this year, and perhaps next, will be over whether the Democrats can effect a coup
against a president many of them have never recognized as legitimate and have sought to bring down since before he took the oath
of office.
Pelosi on Tuesday started this rock rolling down the hill.
She has made impeachment, which did not even come up in the last Democratic debate, the issue of 2020. She has foreclosed bipartisan
compromise on gun control, the cost of prescription drugs, and infrastructure. She has put her and her party's fate and future on
the line.
With Pelosi's assent that she is now open to impeachment, she turned what was becoming a cold case into a blazing issue. If the
Democrats march up impeachment hill, fail, and fall back, or if they vote impeachment only to see the Senate exonerate the president,
that will be the climactic moment of Pelosi's career. She is betting the future of the House, and her party's hopes of capturing
the presidency, on the belief that she and her colleagues can persuade the country to support the indictment of a president for high
crimes.
One wonders: do Democrats, blinded by hatred of Trump, ever wonder how that 40 percent of the nation that sees him as the repository
of their hopes will react if, rather than beat him at the ballot box, they remove him in this way?
The first casualty of Pelosi's cause is almost certain to be the front-runner for the party nomination. Joe Biden has already,
this past week, fallen behind Senator Elizabeth Warren in Iowa, New Hampshire, and California. The Quinnipiac poll has her taking
the lead nationally for the nomination, with Biden dropping into second place for the first time since he announced his candidacy.
By making Ukraine the focus of the impeachment drive in the House, Pelosi has also assured that the questionable conduct of Biden
and son Hunter will be front and center for the next four months before Iowa votes.
What did Joe do? By his own admission, indeed his boast, as vice president, he ordered then-Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko
to either fire the prosecutor who was investigating the company that hired Hunter Biden for $50,000 a month or forego a $1 billion
U.S. loan guarantee that Kiev needed to stay current on its debts.
Biden insists the Ukrainian prosecutor was corrupt, that Hunter had done no wrong, that he himself was unaware of his son's business
ties. All these assertions have been contradicted or challenged.
There is another question raised by Biden's ultimatum to Kiev to fire the corrupt prosecutor or forego the loan guarantee. Why
was the U.S. guaranteeing loans to a Kiev regime that had to be threatened with bankruptcy to get it to rid itself of a prosecutor
whom all of Europe supposedly knew to be corrupt?
Whatever the truth of the charges, the problem here is that any investigation of the potential corruption of Hunter Biden, and
of the role of his father, the former vice president, in facilitating it, will be front and center in presidential politics between
now and New Hampshire.
This is bad news for the Biden campaign. And the principal beneficiary of Pelosi's decision that put Joe and Hunter Biden at the
center of an impeachment inquiry is, again, Warren.
Warren already appears to have emerged victorious in her battle with Bernie Sanders to become the progressives' first choice in
2020. And consider how, as she is rising, her remaining opposition is fast fading.
Senator Kamala Harris has said she is moving her campaign to Iowa for a do-or-die stand in the first battleground state. Senator
Cory Booker has called on donors to raise $1.7 million in 10 days, or he will have to pack it in. As Biden, Sanders, Harris, and
Booker fade, and "Mayor Pete" Buttigieg hovers at 5 or 6 percent in national and state polls, Warren steadily emerges as the probable
nominee.
One measure of how deeply Biden is in trouble, whether he is beginning to be seen as too risky, given the allegations against
him and his son, will be the new endorsements his candidacy receives after this week of charges and countercharges.
If there is a significant falling off, it could be fatal.
Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of Nixon's White House Wars: The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided
America Forever . To find out more about Patrick Buchanan and read features by other Creators writers and cartoonists, visit
the Creators website at www.creators.com.
They would be, if it were Sanders to get the nomination. Warren's chances are, obviously, better than Biden's - anyone's, save
for complete fringe wackos, are - but, if they really wanted to win, they would need Sanders. Or, even better, Gabbard. But Sanders
is too independent, dangerously so, and Gabbard is an outright enemy of their totalitarian cult. Hence, they pick Warren, who
might be vaaaaaaaaaaguely considered Sanders-lite. But lite is not enough against someone like Trump. Or, even worse for them,
they resort to all possible and impossible machinations to still get Biden nominated. It'll be a screaming mistake, but it's not
excluded at all, given how easily the've just been lured into a trap.
Happened to tune in to Rush Limbaugh yesterday just as he was saying that Pelosi's motivation to spin the wheels was at least
in part to kill two birds with one stone--Trump AND Biden. Mehhh...maybe, but it's been clear from the beginning that the Movers
and Shakers in the Democrat Party have wanted Warren as their standard bearer on the belief that Biden is "yesterday" and that
the rest of the field is either too loony (O'Rourke), nondescript (Booker) or -- potentially -- too corrupt (Harris)..
Warren is the most pro-establishment candidate of all the non-establishment candidates, that is true . Incrowd-lite.
Bernie of course is the big unknown. Will he prevail over Warren?
If this scandal sinks Biden and Trump together, the Dems will come out ahead because they are not committed to Biden as their
nominee. I think Warren will be the biggest net winner. My prediction is that we see an impeachment with the Senate voting on
party lines to acquit. That could still be very damaging to Trump's election chances, if the portion of the public who dislikes
Trump decide that he abused his power.
Roughly 37% of Americans love Trump and will never change their mind. On the other side there are
38% who already supported impeachment based on previous investigations. That leaves 25% of Americans who are likely to be
swayed one way or the other over this. In any case, those 25% are unlikely to be on this website.
The main question, other than whether there is something damning that shows up, is whether the majority of voters think a quid
pro quo is necessary for corruption to be an impeachable offense. It is required in a criminal bribery conviction, but impeachment
isn't a criminal trial. Is the president using a diplomatic call to pressure a foreign government to dig up dirt on his political
rivals something the 25% will be okay with? If they believe the story of Biden's corruption, will they see that as justification
for using a diplomatic talk to push for an investigation into it? Will moderate voters who have a high opinion of Biden from the
his time as Vice President view this as an unfair attack on him or will they change their view of him to match Trump's narrative?
Biden is in a tough spot, because he will be smeared here whether he is guilty or not. Trump is very good as slinging mud to
distract from his actions. And most Americans are very unlikely to parse through the information overload to figure out whether
the fired prosecutor is corrupt, whether the decision to fire him came from Joe or the state department/UK/EU/local protest, whether
Hunter Biden was qualified for the job with his ivy law degree/experience on corp boards/previous consulting experience, and whether
the investigation into Burisma was actuall ongoing when Shokin was fired. Who has time to read through everything and figure out
which side is manufacturing a controversy?
But if Biden decides to go down a Martyr, it wouldn't be difficult for him to take Trump with him.
It'll be interesting to see what the voter turnout will be in 2020. 2016 --one of the most pivotal and controversial elections
in modern times--saw 42% of the electorate stay home. This was a shockingly high numbter, little noted in the press. If you tack
on the 6% who voted for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, that would mean that 48% of the electorate--nearly half--did NOT vote for
either Trump or Clinton.
These numbers are ominous and do not bode well for the future of this thing of ours.
Well, given that Trump has already released the transcript and Zelensky has already confirmed there were no pressure in their
conversation plus said that Hunter's case is to be investigated by the AG, any impeachment hearings can only be damaging
to those who decide to go further with them, because, as it turns out, there is no basis for such hearings and they were
started a year before the election, showing what those who started them think regarding their own chances to win. If Democrats
want to cut losses, they should stop it now and, using military terms, regroup immediately, nominating Gabbard who consistently
opposed this stillborn impeachment stupidity. But something makes me think they won't. Their visceral hatred to an anti-war candidate
like her is simply too strong.
I think you are missing that Trump's lawyers can subpoena people and drag up a lot of dirt on the Democrats too. I think it can
go both ways.
Still Warren can be tough for Trump. She is not tainted by Clinton. She is a chameleon; will sound sufficiently WASP in New
England and sufficiently woke in California and new York. If Buttgig becomes her sidekick he can get all the gays on-board.
You're missing one thing about Warren: she's a wonk. And she actually has some good ideas alongside the more crazy ones. Even
Tucker Carlson praised her book.
But Warren is an absolute stiff. Zero charisma. Like Kerry or Gore on their very worst day. And in this day and age, where
the only thing that counts for the overwhelming majority of low information voters are soundbites and how telegenic you come off
in a debate, someone like Trump will chew her up and spit her out for breakfast.
Warren? OK. I don't see how she could be any worse than Trump. Plus, we might not feel like we were snorkeling in a cesspool all
the time, like we do now.
Literally every progressive I know save one is team Warren. I think there might be an age divide. Progressives under thirty are
more likely to be for Sanders, and over thirty for Warren.
I have no idea what will happen with the election. But if Trump wins it after the Dems have done nothing for four years except
impeach him - every day is going to be like Christmas.
I sincerely hope that Trump is right in thinking that Biden is his biggest threat, because this affair is going to ensure Warren
is the nominee. I think a lot of proggy Dems know this as well, which partly explains their enthusiasm for impeachment at this
particular moment (not that they haven't been itching for this since November 8, 2016).
I agree Biden and Bernie are toast but Warren is far from a sure thing. Of all the democratic candidates Tulsi is the most attractive
in more ways than one and I could see Tulsi appealing to the many Trump voters who voted for him because he claimed to be non-interventionist
only to discover he is a war-pig like the rest of them. Imagine Tulsi in a debate with Trump! If not Tulsi I would bet another
high profile Dem will enter the race because Warren is un-electable and I would not be surprised to see Hillary get in the race
at the last minute. American's love re-matches and come-back stories.
In breaking news: Pelosi has just revealed who was behind all this. It's Cardinal Richelieu Russians again.
Does the girl even understand that, by saying so, she's, basically, stating that she's the chief Russian agent out there, because
she was the one who initiated that freak show?
Jesus Harold Christ, what a travelling circus. And this passes for a parliament these days.
Ukrainegate is Watergate in reverse. The farcical impeachment unintentionally acts as a foil, amplifying the significance of the
Ukraine stories in the press (John Solomon, Andrew McCarthy) which reveal a culture of corruption and venality permeating the
Democratic leadership: the Clintons, the Bidens, the DNC, the current Democratic caucus, and the entire deep state remnants of
the obama administration. We haven't seen election interference like this since the Watergate break-in and coverup. This impeachment
is the coup-de-grâce of the Democratic Party not just Biden. The Democrat faithful now have a choice between Scylla and Charybdis
- self-proclaimed socialists with a tenuous hold on reality, or the discredited establishment. As an old-school Democrat, I can
only hope that Trump buries them in 2020, so that the Democrats finally get the message and return to their pre-Clinton roots.
It is insane to pursue impeachment this late in a divisive President's mandate. The Democrats should spend their efforts selecting
a moderate nominee that doesn't show signs of cognitive decline (Only candidate that matches these requirements is Tulsi Gabbard.
) rather than make Trump a "victim" in the eyes of many.
Drama Don is doing a good enough job himself to make sure that the Democrats win in 2020. "Trump fatigue" is going to be the
most used expression next fall if Trump runs. If Trump is pushed out before the election, the Republicans may choose a charismatic
new nominee who actually has a chance to win in 2020. The biggest asset that the Democrats have in 2020 is Trump.
Somebody, somewhere, had decided that Democrats stand little chance with Biden, because he is so old and gaffe prone. So they
have put their money on Warren. Warren will choose Buttigieg as VP candidate, primarily because they want all that gay billionaire
money flowing in. At the same time, they tick the SJW boxes -woman, gay candidates, so the left will love them. The fix is in.
Hence the stupid "impeachment " controversy, which is obviously a sham to knock Biden out.
I voted for Trump, not as a Republican because I despise both political parties. I voted for him based on the need for a nationalist
trade policy, and especially because I was so against the TPP --and President Trump rewarded me for that vote his first week in
office by pulling the US out of TPP negotiations. Also I have great respect for you, Mr. Buchanan, and learned much from the 3
of your books I've read and recommended to others. But it looks like President Trump has been using his office for personal political
gain, so I am sorry to admit I support the impeachment investigation to bring the facts to light and make a judgement of whether
it is true he used the office to solicit a foreign country to help undermine his political opponent. But even before this, I'd
decided I will not vote for him again, mainly because I have become alarmed at the looming climate crisis, and believe we need
urgent policy towards full decarbonization of the global energy economy. But that doesn't motivate me to support the impeachment
inquiry, a path I hate and regret...but it seems there is no other way to demand the President not abuse his office and manipulate
foreign governments to help his political career. That is no patriot, that is corrupt and an embarrassment to our nation.
"...effect a coup against a president many of them have never seen as legitimate and have sought to bring down since before he
took the oath of office."
Every single word of that describes the Republicans in Congress during the eight years Obama was president. Every single syllable.
Remember that birth certificate? And remember that Dick Tracy villain, Pocket-Neck McConnell, an excrescence that still infects
us, standing up and actually saying, with a straight face, "Our ONLY goal is to make Obama a one-term president." Never mind an
economy that was in free-fall, right Mitch? Or a couple of bothersome wars going on?
And what about how, for the very first time in history, Standard and Poor's downgraded America's credit rating, all because
of completely meaningless Republican obstruction about the debt ceiling? And when I say completely meaningless, I mean completely
meaningless. Now, under Trump, the deficit is approaching a trillion, and those very same Republicans couldn't give a hoot.
It's all in the great 2012 book, It's Even Worse Than it Looks, by Ornstein and Mann. We've had partisanship and gridlock before.
But what was new is how the Republicans behaved under Obama: they treated him as completely illegitimate from the word go, and
absolutely refused to work with him under any and all circumstances. The stimulus, which by the way saved the entire world economy
from complete meltdown, didn't get a single Republican vote.
But Republicans can feel proud of one thing: their disgusting, scorched-earth, win-at-all-costs tactics are now business-as-usual
in Washington. Probably for all time. Nice going, guys.
Warren is the best candidate to defeat Trump. She is super smart ,honest and works hard as heck for the non 1% to get more of
a fair shake. If she softens her hard left positions she could be a great candidate
More evidence that Hunter Biden was on the Burisma board as a US, just not of the
intelligence services. Per Wikipedia, Hunter Biden served on the President's advisory council
of the National Democratic Institute (NDI,) a subsidiary of the National Endowment for
Democracy (NED). NED was formed after the CIA was stripped of its authority to pursue regime
change.
It is frequently asserted that NED's mandate includes regime change and color revolutions.
From that perch, Hunter Biden could have had intimate, inside knowledge of the Ukrainian
coup.
In the aftermath of the coup, Hunter Biden got appointed to the board of the strategically
important Burisma energy company. IMO this appointment was not an 'ethical lapse,' a bug, but
rather a feature. The US likes to have trusted assets in place at major, foreign energy
companies.
From this position, Hunter Biden would have easily been able to befriend powerful
Ukrainians, the kind of people would could have helped concoct and affirm whatever Russian
narrative that US leaders desired.
Pelosi on Tuesday started this rock rolling down the hill.
She has made impeachment, which did not even come up in the last Democratic debate, the
issue of 2020. She has foreclosed bipartisan compromise on gun control, the cost of
prescription drugs and infrastructure. She has just put her own and her party's fate and future
on the line.
With Pelosi's assent that she is now open to impeachment, she turned what was becoming a
cold case into a blazing issue. If the Democrats march up impeachment hill, fail and fall back,
or if they vote impeachment only to see the Senate exonerate the president, that will be the
climactic moment of Pelosi's career. She is betting the future of the House, and her party's
hopes of capturing the presidency, on the belief she and her colleagues can persuade the
country to support the indictment of a president for high crimes.
One wonders: Do Democrats blinded by hatred of Trump ever wonder how that 40% of the nation
that sees him as the repository of their hopes will react if, rather than beat him at the
ballot box, they remove him in this way?
The first casualty of Pelosi's cause is almost certain to be the front-runner for the party
nomination. Joe Biden has already, this past week, fallen behind Sen. Elizabeth Warren in Iowa,
New Hampshire and California. The Quinnipiac poll has her taking the lead nationally for the
nomination, with Biden dropping into second place for the first time since he announced his
candidacy.
By making Ukraine the focus of the impeachment drive in the House, Pelosi has also assured
that the questionable conduct of Biden and son Hunter Biden will be front and center for the
next four months before Iowa votes.
What did Joe do? By his own admission, indeed his boast, as vice president he ordered
then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to either fire the prosecutor who was investigating
the company that hired Hunter Biden for $50,000 a month or forgo a $1 billion U.S. loan
guarantee that Kiev needed to stay current on its debts.
Biden insists the Ukrainian prosecutor was corrupt, that Hunter had done no wrong, that he
himself was unaware of his son's business ties.
All these assertions have been contradicted or challenged.
There is another question raised by Biden's ultimatum to Kiev to fire the corrupt prosecutor
or forgo the loan guarantee. Why was the U.S. guaranteeing loans to a Kiev regime that had to
be threatened by the U.S. with bankruptcy to get it to rid itself of a prosecutor whom all of
Europe supposedly knew to be corrupt?
Whatever the truth of the charges, the problem here is that any investigation of potential
corruption of Hunter Biden, and of the role of his father, the former vice president, in
facilitating it, will be front and center in presidential politics between now and New
Hampshire.
This is bad news for the Biden campaign. And the principal beneficiary of Pelosi's decision
that put Joe and Hunter Biden at the center of an impeachment inquiry is, again, Warren.
Warren already appears to have emerged victorious in her battle with Bernie Sanders to
become the progressives' first choice in 2020. And consider how, as she is rising, her
remaining opposition is fast fading.
Sen. Kamala Harris has said she is moving her campaign to Iowa for a do-or-die stand in the
first battleground state. Sen. Cory Booker has called on donors to raise $1.7 million in 10
days, or he will have to pack it in. As Biden, Sanders, Harris and Booker fade, and "Mayor
Pete" Buttigieg hovers at 5 or 6% in national and state polls, Warren steadily emerges as the
probable nominee.
One measure of how deeply Biden is in trouble, whether he is beginning to be seen as too
risky, given the allegations against him and his son, will be the new endorsements his
candidacy receives after this week of charges and countercharges.
If there is a significant falling off, it could be fatal.
Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars: The Battles That Made and
Broke a President and Divided America Forever."
In his phone call with Zelensky, President Trump mentioned two subjects in particular which
are Kryptonite to the Democrats: Crowdstrike and "the server," meaning the DNC server which
was never forensically examined by the FBI. Pulling on these two threads may be even more
interesting than the stuff about the big-bucks shakedowns of foreign governments by Joe Biden
& Son, Inc. Just for starters: what the fcuk is the DNC server doing in Ukraine?
I now think that someone on the Trump team did this leak. It only helps him. The dirt on
Biden was public, but ignored by the corporate media. Now they are forced to report it to
attack Trump, and it makes Dems look corrupt. Big media spins this, but not true leftists
like Jimmy Dore and others with millions of followers.
I'm writing from Athens, Greece, where the Greek language media, along with most other
European non-English language media, have tracked the Hunter Biden story since 2014 –
the unashamed and unabashed nepotism, corruption and conflict of interest of his appointment
to Burisma, and the subsequent trail of arrests in Ukraine for drugs, prostitution, drunk
driving. Burisma itself is not a pretty story, and by being headquartered in Cyprus it of
course evades Ukrainian taxes.
All this is an old story here.
It is satisfying, given the outrages that have been forced on the Ukrainian people, to have
at least one tiny part of this horrible mess brought to light. For us it is immaterial who
does this good thing.
The fact that the Ukrainian prosecutor intended to prosecute despite Washington's
domination speaks to his honesty. Only the compradore "elites" of Europe would pretend
anything different – for Washington's sake.
Meanwhile one can only marvel at the Democrat party: surely they realise they are only
shooting themselves in the foot. Worse, what if it leads to the unveiling of other Obama era
crimes?
Biden insists the Ukrainian prosecutor was corrupt, that Hunter had done no wrong, that he
himself was unaware of his son's business ties.
All these assertions have been contradicted or challenged".
This is par the "American" course. This attitude of ordering other nations interface with
many unrelated areas . America vouch for their honesty integrity and love for rule of law,
desire for woman's lib , peace, democracy and open business as the reasons for them to
liberate Iraq ,sanction Iran, topple Basher ,kill foreign leaders ,impose IMF on Libya or
Pakistan and displace tribals from Amazon or Ganges ,or dismantle welfare stems in Venezuela
or India.
Biden just made this personal.
Whats wrong with this?
Just as Biden knows that he was aware of the business and the corruption so was America
that Taliban did nit attack USA and Saddam did not carry out 911 or conduct any WMD or CW
tests .
Biden was bombastic. So was America in 2003.
Chicken coming home to roost . But the home has been usurped also by latinos blacks
immigrants and by the climate change.
Good one. She's gotta be next to get defrocked, a phony progressive Wall Street war hawk.
Only not so soon that a limp Biden zombie could rise again.
TULSI Gabbard = A Thinly Veiled Threat to Israel
This speech was about Saudi Arabia, but the Israel Lobby has to get a cold chill at the
thought of a US military that ONLY DEFENDS AMERICA. "Our military exists to defend America -- not the radical Islamist dictatorship of Saudi
Arabia"
@yetagain
We all enjoy Trump, and I hope the enjoyment lasts another few years, because there is a lot
of roach-infested curtains and termite-infested walls to be torn down by the bumbling
mastodont.
(And, bugger me sideways, La Pelosi looks like something out of a Disney "Ghosts of the
Carribean" amusement park ride, what's going on?)
@anonymous
Dems are in a bind on this one. I think the DNC orchestrated the leak to take out Biden who
is clearly losing it. But Biden's strength was his "so called" pro-labor appeal, and there's
no one to take up that mantle. "So Called" because Biden sold out labor on the TPP with China
in exchange for $1.5 Billion to Hunter.
The replacement is the problem. Warren ain't it. Watch the Fake News Media and see who
they start promoting. Yes Warren can win the primary, but free medical to illegals means
she's toast.
@JamesD
Justice Kennedy – who decreed the change in legal marriage – was another
Republican choice for whom young Mr. Kavanaugh clerked before helping President Cheney with
the Patriot Act to earn his first robe on the Swampville Circuit. Chief Justice Roberts was
the one who nailed down Big Sickness for the pharmaceutical and insurance industries.
Like the "federal" elections held every November in even-numbered years and the 5-4
decrees of the Court, the nail-biting confirmation hearings are another part of the show that
keeps people gulled into accepting that so many things in life are to be run by people in
Washington. Mr. Buchanan for years has been proclaiming each The Most Important Ever.
I'm still inclined to the notion that the Constitution was intended, at least by some of
its authors and supporters, to create a limited national government. But even by the time of
Marbury, those entrusted with the powers have arrogated the authority to redefine them. In my
lifetime, the Court exists to deal with hot potato social issues in lieu of the invertebrate
Congress, to forebear (along with the invertebrate Congress) the warmongering and other
"foreign policy" waged under auspices of the President, and to dignify the Establishment's
shepherding and fleecing of the people.
Why should a robed, unelected politician be redefining marriage? Entrusted to enforce the
Constitutional limitations on the others? Sure, questions like these are posed from time to
time in a dissenting Justice's opinion, but that ends the discussion other than in the
context of replacing old Justice X with middle-aged Justice Y. Those of us outside the
Beltway are told to tune in and root Red. And there are pom pom shakers and color
commentators just like Mr. Buchanan for Team Blue.
@anon
No democrat votes will be cast for months, yet Pat and other pundits are already saying that
Pocahontas Warren will be their nominee. Tulsi raised the question of Warren's lack of
qualifications to be Commander-in-Chief (the most important job of any president). The media
and the DNC are trying to bury Tulsi, just as the RNC tried to do the same with Trump –
and we know how that turned out. The DNC failed this time to cheat her out of her rightful
place in the upcoming debate, which must make phoneys like Warren scared to death. Don't
count Tulsi out. Americans are sick unto death of constant war.
"... "During the Ukraine cries in 2014-15, Chris Steele had a number of commercial clients who were asking him for reports on what was going on in Russia, what was going on in Ukraine, what was going on between them." --Victoria Nuland. ..."
"... More information on Hunter Biden. He served on the President's Advisory Council of the National Democratic Institute (NDI), a subsidiary of the National Endowment for Democracy, which was set up after Congress banned the CIA from pursuing regime change. A lot of the coordination and assistance for the Ukraine coup probably passed through that 'non-profit.' Joe Biden was Obama's point person, and Hunter Biden was probably Joe's eyes, ears, and gopher at NDI. ..."
"... As a side benefit, Hunter Biden would have been in an excellent position, both from his work at NDI and at Burisma, to meet the movers and shakers in post-coup Ukraine and coordinate disinformation campaigns as needed. The Ukrainians would have been eager to help as the solvency of the country depended on US loans. ..."
"During the Ukraine cries in 2014-15, Chris Steele had a number of commercial clients who
were asking him for reports on what was going on in Russia, what was going on in Ukraine,
what was going on between them." --Victoria Nuland.
More information on Hunter Biden. He served on the President's Advisory Council of the
National Democratic Institute (NDI), a subsidiary of the National Endowment for Democracy,
which was set up after Congress banned the CIA from pursuing regime change. A lot of the
coordination and assistance for the Ukraine coup probably passed through that 'non-profit.'
Joe Biden was Obama's point person, and Hunter Biden was probably Joe's eyes, ears, and
gopher at NDI.
Immediately after the coup, Hunter was appointed to the board of the strategically
critical Burisma energy company, Ukraine's largest producer of natural gas. From what I have
seen, the US likes to have its assets sit on the Board of strategically critically energy
companies.
And is Ukraine ever strategically important!!! Apart from the fact the Russian pipelines
pass through the country, "Ukraine has an estimated 42 trillion cubic feet (tcf) of
technically recoverable shale gas reserves, according to the U.S. Energy Information
Administration (EIA), ranking its deposits as the fourth largest in Europe." https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Ukraine_and_fracking
Again, Hunter Biden's appointment would not have been by chance. He would have been put
there to once again to be Joe Biden's eyes, ears, and gopher.
As a side benefit, Hunter Biden would have been in an excellent position, both from his
work at NDI and at Burisma, to meet the movers and shakers in post-coup Ukraine and
coordinate disinformation campaigns as needed. The Ukrainians would have been eager to help
as the solvency of the country depended on US loans.
So are we about to witness the first color revolution on US soil? Could be
>> The prosecutor was thought to be corrupt and was dragging his feet on many
prosecutions (this was the same prosecutor that had refused to prosecute Yulia Tymoshenko
years before) ;
>> Many people (including Western European allies) were calling for the
prosecutor's removal;
>> After the prosecutor left, an investigation proceeded and ultimately resulted in a
settlement in which the company paid a fine.
"... Tulsi is the only Democrat who has her head screwed tight on her shoulders. As for the rest of that clown show---God help us!! ..."
"... Russia Gate 2.0 ..."
"... The Ukrainian gas HoldCo gave Hunter Biden a no-show job that paid $600K a year. They could have hired dozen of Yale Law grads for less. ..."
"... Kind of sad we Americans after two years of Russia gate will be dragged through a new political ploy. Our intelligence community and the DOJ need come clean and quick. ..."
"... The transcript of Trump's call to the Ukrainian president is out. There is absolutely no mention of anything close to a quid pro quo. ..."
"... "Repeat after me: the President should not demand foreign powers investigate his political rivals." How about Senate Democrats, Hillary Clinton, the DNC? Do you have a problem with them soliciting, even paying cash, to foreigners to investigate Trump? How about spying? Do you have a problem with one party using U.S. intelligence to spy on another party's nominee? ..."
"... This time - played into showing an utter electoral weakness by demanding an impeachment with no grounds for such a year before an election they, according to their screams on every corner, are "poised to win". Uncool, bros and sises, uncooool... ..."
"... The only mildly critical observation as to how exactly Trump played the said fiddle is that it would have been a tad better had he taken his time and waited for some days. ..."
"... The Democrats have hitched their train to the impeachment star not with impeachment per se as the goal. ..."
"... Just dragging us through this execrable process will achieve what they want nicely, i.e., disrupting possible Trump progress on his policy initiatives ( such as they are ), and weakening his electoral chances amongst the incorrigibly indecisive segment of American voters at the margin. Fighting corruption with corruption has now become the norm in Washington, D.C. ..."
I agree with Tulsi Gabbard - an impeachment at this time serves no point. It also discounts
the value of voting Democrat. This act may hand the White House to Trump for another 4
years. One can only hope that a Tusi G can arise and become our next president. The rest of
the team are basically knee jerk politicians waiting for the lobbies to instruct.
If Democrats weren't fanatically determined to prevent her from arising at all costs, she
could become the president already in a year. She can realiably beat any Republican aside
from Rand Paul, who isn't much more loved within his party than she within hers. One can
only wonder why the Democratic establishment hates her so much. Not a member of the Cult?
Better losing on and on and on than allowing an anti-war candidate to get the nomination?
Collective political manifestation of Freudian death wish?
"I hope with all of my soul, and with respect for those like Ellsberg, Manning, and
Snowden, that this whistleblower proves worthy to stand next to them. And God help him and
our country if not."
So, Democrats have done just what he wanted them to do - started a miserable (and a doomed,
given that the Senate is in Republican hands) circus instead of actually campaigning with
their voters, while also riling his ones. But thanks, team D, for showing what your
candidates' chances to get elected really are. Has been no secret to me that those chances
are illusory, but thanks for making the thing official anyways. Starting a stillborn
attempt to depose a president, against whom you, in your fantasy world, are "poised to win"
in a year, is the best testimony of how toast you are in the said fantasy world's real
counterpart. Attacongressboys and attacongressgirls. Take some metaphorical cookies from
the metaphorical jar.
The only sad thing is that you're sullying the notion of whistleblower with a clown,
who, most probably, doesn't even exist. The whole thing is actually your petty revenge
against Snowden, who has just released his new book, ain't it? Low.
"Remember, he knows what was said and the Dems demanding impeachment do not."
Exactly and the Dems are setting themselves up for another public disaster thus handing
Trump his reelection. Anyway Biden is history and he should withdraw immediately. Fighting
this losing battle will only invoke the well deserved wrath of justice.
Looks to me that Trump is turning the tables on the democrats and they are in for a
world of hurt when the investigations and indictments start rolling now.
Kind of sad we Americans after two years of Russia gate will be dragged through a new
political ploy. Our intelligence community and the DOJ need come clean and quick.
The transcript of Trump's call to the Ukrainian president is out. There is absolutely no
mention of anything close to a quid pro quo. Trump asks the president to take calls from
Bill Barr and Giuliani to talk about corruption broadly. Biden's son is also included in
what they'll talk about. It is all very high-level, general, surface talk. If Dems want to
try and impeach on this, it is a long shot at best.
https://fm.cnbc.com/applica...
"Repeat after me: the President should not demand foreign powers investigate his political
rivals."
How about Senate Democrats, Hillary Clinton, the DNC? Do you have a problem with them soliciting, even paying cash, to foreigners to
investigate Trump? How about spying? Do you have a problem with one party using U.S. intelligence to spy on
another party's nominee?
I'll repeat after you once you clarify your position on those things. But if you're not
consistent, why should I?
The transcript released has Trump asking for an investigation of Biden and Biden's son
explicitly. Then it emphasizes how "very good" to the Ukraine the U.S. has been and how the
relationship "has not always been reciprocal".
At the time of the call the president was holding back hundreds of millions of dollars
in Ukranian aid. How dumb do you have to be to not interpret this as a gangsta time of quid-pro-quo
attempt?
The whole whistle blower report should be released.
The Demos have no real choice but to start an impeachment query as their voters will
interpret not doing this as clear cowardice and moral spinelessness. They know the
impeachment won't succeed.
So, looks like "some" folks have been played like a fiddle all over again. This time -
played into showing an utter electoral weakness by demanding an impeachment with no grounds
for such a year before an election they, according to their screams on every corner, are
"poised to win". Uncool, bros and sises, uncooool...
The only mildly critical observation as to how exactly Trump played the said fiddle is
that it would have been a tad better had he taken his time and waited for some days.
Nothing practical - the situation served its purpose fairly and squarely - but it would be
such a cute circus, and wailings would be so much louder if everything fell apart just a
little bit later. But maybe he just doesn't like the circus. De gustibus non est
disputandum , though.
Whoa, there cowboys and indigenous peoples! The Democrats have hitched their train to the
impeachment star not with impeachment per se as the goal.
Just dragging us through this
execrable process will achieve what they want nicely, i.e., disrupting possible Trump
progress on his policy initiatives ( such as they are ), and weakening his electoral
chances amongst the incorrigibly indecisive segment of American voters at the margin.
Fighting corruption with corruption has now become the norm in Washington, D.C.
It's sort of the long game, with a hint of the "Hail Mary" pass thrown in for good
measure. They know what they're up to. But, as the author says, it just might backfire.
They may overplay their hand. Or make one of the two classic blunders.
Vizzini: "Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most
famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well
known is this: 'Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!'"
"... Third, an impeachment battle would give Trump a last chance to solidify his hold on the souls and reputations of his possible Republican successors. To understand what I mean, consider Jonathan V. Last's explanation of why so few Republican elected officials are likely to break with Trump, no matter how Nixonian his straits become: ..."
"... But my ultimate guess is that none of this matters quite as much as some impeachment arguers suppose. An impeachment effort could be both foredoomed and unlikely to influence the 2020 outcome all that much, so Nancy Pelosi might be wise to forestall one but also find herself with few regrets if one gets forced on her. ..."
Does Donald Trump Want to Be Impeached? https://nyti.ms/2mKgmBS
NYT - Ross Douthat - September 24
When it comes to determining when it makes sense to impeach a president, congressional
Democrats are working with 200 words in the Constitution, three significant historical
precedents, the fervor of impeachment advocates, the anxieties of swing-state members of
Congress and all the polling data that a modern political party can buy.
None of this, unfortunately, tells them what to do when the president in question actually
wants them to impeach him.
That Donald Trump actually wants to be impeached is an argument that Ben Domenech, the
publisher of The Federalist, has been making for some time -- that the president isn't
stumbling backward toward impeachment, but is actually eager for the fight.
In his email newsletter Monday morning, Domenech cited the last few days of
Ukraine-related agitation as vindication, arguing that the circus atmosphere of congressional
hearings, scenes of Joe Biden talking about corruption instead of health care or the economy,
and wavering House Democrats getting forced into an impeachment vote by their angry
colleagues and constituents are all exactly what Trump wants.
For my own part I think wants is probably an overstatement, since it implies a strategic
purpose, a permanent intention and a stable mental state, none of which should be assumed
when analyzing the president of the United States.
... ... ...
First, if the Democrats impeach him they will be doing something unpopular instead of
something popular. Maybe the polls showing impeachment's unpopularity will alter as the
Ukraine story develops. Maybe public hearings will deliver a series of blows that persuades
the large anti-Trump, anti-impeachment constituency that his expedited removal from office is
desirable or necessary. But the current shape of public opinion is the boring, basic reason
that Trump seems to want to be impeached more than Nancy Pelosi wants to impeach him: The
Democratic agenda is more popular than the Republican agenda (whatever that is), the likely
Democratic nominees are all more popular than Trump, and so anything that puts the Democrats
on the wrong side of public opinion may look better, through Trump's eyes, than the status
quo.
Second, Trump is happy to pit his overt abuses of power against the soft corruption of his
foes. This is an aspect of Trumpism that the president's critics find particularly
infuriating -- the way he attacks his rivals for being corrupt swamp creatures while being so
much more nakedly compromised himself. But whether the subject is the Clinton Foundation's
influence-peddling or now the Biden family's variation on that theme, Trump has always sold
himself as the candidate of a more honest form of graft -- presenting his open cynicism as
preferable to carefully legal self-dealing, exquisitely laundered self-enrichment, the spirit
of "hey, it's totally normal for the vice president's son to get paid hundreds of thousands
of dollars by the Ukrainians or the Chinese so long as every disclosure form gets filled out
and his dad doesn't talk to him about the business."
In fact this sort of elite seaminess is bad, but what Trump offers isn't preferable:
Hypocrisy is better than naked vice, soft corruption is better than the more open sort, and
what the president appears to have done in leaning on the Ukrainian government is much worse
than Hunter Biden's overseas arrangements. But no one should be surprised that some voters in
our age of mistrust and fragmentation and despair prefer the honest graft -- some in Trump's
base, and also some in the ranks of the alienated and aggrieved middle, the peculiar
Obama-Trump constituency.
Indeed, history is replete with "boss"-style politicians who got away with corruption
because they were seen as the rough, effective alternative to a smug, hypocritical elite.
Trump's crucial political weakness is that unlike those bosses, he hasn't delivered that much
to many of his voters. But that may make him all the more eager to return to the politics of
comparative corruption, to have the argument again about whether he's more ethically
challenged than the swamp. He may not win it, but at least he's playing a part that he knows
well.
Third, an impeachment battle would give Trump a last chance to solidify his hold on
the souls and reputations of his possible Republican successors. To understand what I mean,
consider Jonathan V. Last's explanation of why so few Republican elected officials are likely
to break with Trump, no matter how Nixonian his straits become:
... ... ...
This doesn't just explain why Trump thinks he can survive an impeachment fight; it also
explains why he might relish it. He knows that he could well lose the next election, but
there's no reason a mere general-election defeat will prevent him from wielding power over
the Republican Party, via Twitter and other means, for many years to come. And what better
way to consolidate that power (or at least the feeling of that power) in the last year of his
administration than seeing all his would-be successors, all the bright younger men of the
Senate especially, come down and kiss the ring one last time?
... ... ...
Which brings us to the last reason Trump might kind of like to be impeached: Because the
circus is the part of politics that he fundamentally enjoys. Throughout the Mueller
investigation my Twitter feed was alight with liberal and NeverTrump fantasies about how
Trump must be bed-wetting, flop-sweat terrified by the tough G-man's investigation. And maybe
at times he was. But I'm pretty sure that when he ranted on Twitter about the "Twelve Angry
Democrats" and "WITCH HUNT" and "NO COLLUSION," he was more engaged, more alive, more fully
his full self than at any point during the legislative battles over tax reform or Obamacare
repeal.
And Robert Mueller's was a legal investigation, with the power to actually put people in
Trump's inner circle in prison. A merely political trial, where the worst-case scenario is a
political martyrdom that Sean Hannity will sing of ever after, seems to offer Trump a much
lower-stress variation on that experience. Why, the nicknames for the impeachment managers
alone will be a Trumpian banquet, a veritable feast!
None of this, I should stress, adds up to an airtight argument that the Democrats should
not impeach. Nine months ago I made a case against impeachment, and many of the arguments in
that essay might apply to this case -- depending on how far it turns out Trump went in
pressuring Ukraine. But politics is a contact sport, a field for combat as well as for
maneuver, and just because someone wants a fight doesn't mean that you should never, ever
give him one. The dictum about wrestling a pig (you get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it)
doesn't hold up if the pig keeps punching you; the dictum that it's better to beat Trump at
the polls than lose a Senate vote probably doesn't hold up if you talk yourself into looking
permanently supine in the face of indubitable corruption.
Much of the Trump era has consisted of politicians of both parties waiting for someone
else to give Trump a knockout blow. So there's something to be said, at the level of
spiritedness if not necessarily strategy, for House Democrats to take a swing themselves.
But my ultimate guess is that none of this matters quite as much as some impeachment
arguers suppose. An impeachment effort could be both foredoomed and unlikely to influence the
2020 outcome all that much, so Nancy Pelosi might be wise to forestall one but also find
herself with few regrets if one gets forced on her.
The nature of the Trump era is that yuge events recede far more rapidly than anyone
expects. So it might be with impeachment: Have the vote or don't have it, we'll be arguing
about something completely different by the time Americans are going to the polls.
Krugman is a funny jerk (aka neoliberal propagandist): " completely unsupported claims of
corruption by Joe Biden"
Notable quotes:
"... The Winners and Losers of the Latest Trump Scandal. A snapshot of the Ukrainian fallout. By Paul Krugman ..."
"... However, I expect Democrats to disingenuously pretend that the problem is a limited to single bad actor. But they may take Biden down in the process, because the facts of his involvement in Ukraine will never really be known because of Ukraine's own rampant corruption and their politicians'' eagerness to say whatever the man with the money wants them to say. ..."
"... One of the reasons that I doubt Biden's version of the story stems from my experience in Venezuela. After Chavez took power, Venezuelans told me that he had found that a critical subsidiary of the Venezuelan oil company PDVSA was basically a CIA shop. ..."
"... This brings us to Hunter Biden's appointment to Ukrainian energy giant Burisma. ..."
The Winners and Losers of the Latest Trump Scandal.
A snapshot of the Ukrainian fallout.
By Paul Krugman
Only 11 days have passed since Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence
Committee, revealed that the Trump administration was illegally withholding a whistle-blower
complaint from Congress. When the news came out, I -- probably like most observers --
expected it to be another fizzle, yet another clear example of Trump malfeasance that would
just fail to catch fire with Congress or the public.
And that may yet happen. I presume and hope that pollsters are at work as we speak, trying
to gauge public opinion on the scandal. But this time feels different, maybe because it's so
simple and clear cut. The president of the United States and his personal lawyer both admit
that they called on a foreign regime to produce dirt on one of his political rivals. It now
looks as if he tried to pressure said foreign regime by withholding crucial military aid,
which makes it worse.
The result is that this scandal is blowing up in a way previous Trump scandals, no matter
how serious, haven't. A House vote to impeach has quickly gone from "unlikely" to "more
likely than not" now that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi plans to announce a formal impeachment
inquiry.
Why does this matter? In general, I dislike the common journalistic trope of "winners and
losers" from political developments. In this case, however, it seems to me like a good way to
sum up the fallout so far. So here are three winners and two losers from the developments so
far.
Winners
Adam Schiff: After years when it seemed as if nothing could shake Trump's
ability to stonewall, Schiff started an avalanche that has a good chance of bringing the
wall tumbling down.
The narrative of Trump as betrayer of America: There has been abundant evidence
all along that Trump's team colluded with Russia in 2016, and that Trump in office has been
all too happy to carry water for brutal foreign autocrats. But it was all complicated and
obscure enough to confuse many people. Pressuring Ukraine to smear Joe Biden's son is
something everyone can understand, and it retroactively makes all the other accusations
credible.
Hard-working reporters: We don't have all the facts about what exactly Trump and
company did to set off the whistle-blower, but the past week and a half have been one
devastating revelation after another, all thanks to reporters at major news outlets,
including The New York Times.
Losers
"Savvy" journalistic analysis: The two great media sins of 2016 were false
equivalence and the substitution of speculation about how things would "play" for
description of what was actually going on. Sure enough, the first reaction of some in the
media was to present Trump's verified abuse of power and completely unsupported claims of
corruption by Joe Biden as comparably grave, and to suggest that the episode somehow
"raises questions" about Biden -- a cowardly dodge of the media's obligation to get at the
truth. But articles along these lines generated huge criticism, and I'm seeing a lot less
of that sort of thing in the past couple of days.
Senate Republicans: It's looking quite likely now that G.O.P. senators will have
to vote on charges of impeachment -- charges that will be based on documented abuses, not
disputable interpretations. Most if not all of them will, of course, vote to acquit. But in
so doing they'll expose their corruption and disloyalty to American principles for all to
see.
So it's been quite a couple of weeks. And while it won't be over until November of next
year, and probably not even then, it looks as if Trump and his party are finally in the kind
of trouble they deserve.
________________________________
Quick Hits
The Founding Fathers worried a lot about foreign influence on U.S. politics; sometimes it
seems as if Trump took their concerns as an operating manual.
It's important to realize that Ukraine is engaged in a slow-motion war with Trump's
favorite dictator. Diplomacy depends on the use of both sticks and carrots. Trump gets the
sticks part, but the carrots part doesn't work because nobody trusts him to honor his
promises. You can almost feel sorry for Republicans, who know that any criticism of Trump
will tank them with the base. On the other hand, never mind; they chose to put themselves in
that position.
Does anybody really believe that powerful politicians haven't been doing this forever? Does
anybody remember Iran Contra when Reagan got the Iranians to delay the hostage release to
benefit him against Jimmy Carter?
Furthermore, isn't one of the primary goals of foreign policy the promotion of American
business to help the politicians' friends and donors? Wasn't WalMart, where Hillary served on
the Board, one of the movers and shakers behind Bubba's signing China PNTR?
In an ideal world, this whole vast corrupt swamp would get a thorough airing as part of
Trump's impeachment. While we're airing dirty laundry, let's see it all!
However, I expect Democrats to disingenuously pretend that the problem is a limited to
single bad actor. But they may take Biden down in the process, because the facts of his
involvement in Ukraine will never really be known because of Ukraine's own rampant corruption
and their politicians'' eagerness to say whatever the man with the money wants them to
say.
One of the reasons that I doubt Biden's version of the story stems from my experience in
Venezuela. After Chavez took power, Venezuelans told me that he had found that a critical
subsidiary of the Venezuelan oil company PDVSA was basically a CIA shop. The names of CIA on
the Board of Directors were not just ordinary CIA, but were recognizable figures at the very
top. To me this is entirely plausible. Control of oil is critical to US global hegemony. And
what better way to control foreign oil than to have trusted American asset sit on the BOD?
This brings us to Hunter Biden's appointment to Ukrainian energy giant Burisma. After the
coup in 2014, why wouldn't Biden want a trusted asset on the board of the biggest natural gas
producer in Ukraine? IOW it was unpublicized standard operating procedure.
Interesting day in Presidential politics today.
I assume most here are sick of hearing about it further today. I enjoy speculating on what Speaker Pelosi might do with the results of the Impeachment Inquiry by the House.
Assumption: The House finds grounds for Impeaching Trump and hands it to Pelosi. What will she do or rather what can she do? She can have the full House vote to Impeach and march the Articles over to the Senate. She can have the House Censure Trump, not vote to Impeach, and go no further at this time. That brings Trump's crimes to light,
but saves the country from a Political Trial in the Senate, that won't convict Trump.
She can hold the Committee's report for review and not go forward until and unless she see's the POLITICAL need. She can, IMO, have the House vote Articles of Impeachment and then HOLD them in the House waiting to take them to the Senate
at a much later date of her choice or never. The Senate cannot act until the Speaker delivers the Articles of Impeachment. No where does the Constitution declare WHEN those
Articles, once voted, must be delivered, only that they are to be.
She can set a new precedent if she desires. Who can stop her?
This would allow the Articles to float over Trump's head - and the Re-Election campaign serving to restrain Trump, like a cudgel
over his head - preventing or at least limiting more of Trump's outrageous unconstitutional and illegal acts in Office until Election
2020.
Simultaneously this would allow The House to continue its multiple investigations of Trump, including the IRS Whistle Blower
complaint, further checking Trump, and even to open more investigations into Trump's abuse of Office, e.g., his use of AG Barr
on Ukraine/Biden as well as investigations of AG Barr pursuing Ukraine/Biden.
Not to mention other investigations into Trump including NY's pursuit of Trump's Tax Returns, which could well be as revealing
as the Ukraine phone call transcript.
So, while today was interesting in D.C., the future is far more so, imho.
Biden is now a zombie and has less then zero changes to beat Trump. Even if nothing explosive will be revealed by Ukraine-gate,
this investigation hangs like albatross around his neck. Each shot at Trump will ricochet into Biden. Add to this China and the
best he can do is to leave the race and claim unfair play.
Trump now probably will be reelected on the wave of indignation toward Corporate Dems new witch hunt. People stopped believing
neoliberal MSM around 2015, so now neolibs no longer have the leverage they get used to. And by launching Ukraine-gate after Russiagate
they clearly overplayed their hand losing critical mass of independents (who previously were ready to abandon Trump.)
If unpleasant facts about neolib/neocon machinations to launch Ukraine-gate leak via alternative press via disgruntled DNC
operatives or some other insiders who are privy to the relevant discussions in the Inner Party, they will poison/destroy the chances
of any Dem candidate be it Warren or anybody else. Joining this witch hunt greatly damages standing of Warren exposing her as
a mediocre, malleable politician ( unlike Tulsi )
Instead of running on policy issues the Democrats again tried to find vague dirt with which they can tarnish Trump. This
is a huge political mistake which exposes them as political swindlers.
Neolib/neocon in Democratic Party from now on will be viewed as "The Children of Lieutenant Schmidt" (a fictional society of
swindlers from the 1931 classic "The Little Golden Calf" by Ilf and Petrov).
I would say that Pelosi might now be able to understand better the situation in which Wasserman-Shultz had found herself in
2016 and resign.
IMHO this is a kind of zugzwang for neoliberal Dems. There is no good exit from this situation: After two years of falsely
accusing Trump to have colluded with Russia they now allege that he colluded with Ukraine.
In addition to overpaying their hand that makes it more difficult for the Democrats to hide their critical role in creating
and promoting Russiagate.
Here is one post from MoA which tries to analyze this situation:
== quote ==
nil , Sep 25 2019 19:37 utc | 24
I think what's going in the brain trust of the DNC is something like this:
i. Biden is a non-starter with the public. He'll be devoured alive by the Republicans, who only need to bring up his career
to expose his mendacity.
ii. Warren might be co-opted, having been a Republican and fiscal conservative up to the mid-90s, but what if she isn't?
iii. Sanders is a non-starter, but with the "people who matter". Rather than having to threaten him with the suspicions around
his wife, or go for the JFK solution, they'd rather [make that] he didn't even get past the primaries, much less elected.
iv. As a CNN talking head said weeks ago, it's better for the wealthy people the DNC is beholden to that their own candidate
loses to Trump if that candidate is Sanders.
So better to hedge their bets start impeachment hearings, give Trump ammunition to destroy Sanders or Warren. That way, the
rich win in all scenarios:
a. If Biden wins the nomination, the campaign will be essentially mudslinging from both sides about who is more corrupt. The
rich are fine with whoever wins.
b. If Warren gets the nomination and is co-opted, the media will let the impeachment hearings die out, or the House themselves
will quickly bury it.
c. If Warren gets the nomination and is not co-opted, or if Sanders get it, the impeachment will suck up all the air of the
room, Trump will play the witchhunt card and will be re-elected.
All this brouhaha over Russiagate and to think that in the end it
was Ukraine that did it
Anyhow:
I am pretty sure this is a trap (for the Dems), who are initiating impeachment without even
knowing what's on the damn transcript.
It will be nice to see some questions on how exactly Hunter Biden was given a position at
Ukraine's natural gas monopoly with a monthly salary of $50,000 (in a country where the average
wage is two orders of magnitude lower) while daddy campaigned against Ukrainian corruption.
Perhaps there'll even be some good opportunities for knowledge about the Maidan false flag
to seep into the US, discourse though I'll believe it when I see it.
I do not know where the Dems are going with this. To actually get Trump out of office would
require a 2/3 majority of the senate to vote for conviction do the Dems really think there's
any set of circumstances under which they get those votes? Impeachment itself is nothing more
than "bringing charges." Bill Clinton was impeached; he still finished his term.
4D chess: the Dem establishment wants to knock off Biden and they think any extended
investigation into this Ukraine stuff may bring him down. But it could backfire: Biden still
ends up the nominee but Trump uses any dirt unearthed to portray him as a corrupt
wheeler-dealer, thereby weakening Biden's campaign.
a monthly salary of $50,000 (in a country where the average wage is two orders of
magnitude lower)
FWIW, the New York Times report suggests Hunter Biden's monthly salary for this cushy
position fluctuated, and that $50,000 was the maximum he ever received for his
services in any given month.
I wonder, if they had salary information, why not publish the full total? e.g., it could
have been [to make up a plausible number] $1,500,000 over his five years in that role (ca.
May 2014 to April 2019), ranging from $10,000 to $50,000 a month.
What would a Ukrainian look like who makes a salary as high as – one –
order of magnitude lower than Hunter Biden made for his Ukraine consulting work?
Someone made an English wiki page on Ukraine salaries:
According to that page, the salary avg. in Kiev was at 11,400 hryvnia/month in mid 2017,
while most other oblasts were at 6-7,000 hryvnia/month.
The exchange rate to USD
(nominal) in the period Sept. 2015 to Sept. 2019 has fluctuated between 21 and 29 hryvnia to
1 USD, which yields, covering the exchange rate range:
– avg. Kiev salary: something between $400 and $540/month [USD]
– avg. non-Kiev salary: something between $210 and $335/month [USD]
But the PPP-to-nominal spread for Ukraine suggests a more accurate view, when viewing the
figures in USD as above, would mean multiplying each by about 3x or even 3.33x.
So it looks like a lower-rung Kiev professional making ~1.5x to 1.75x the Kiev avg.
monthly salary, when that salary-figure is pushed up by PPP, is able to make, in one year,
what Hunter Biden may have made in a typical (not peak) month.
IMO, Trump's lying for no apparent reason to the American public is a misdemeanor and meets
the US Constitution's threshold of High Crimes and Misdemeanors for Impeachment.
The right thing is to Impeach Trump, but it may not be the Politic thing given S.
McConnell's majority in the GOP in Senate.
Why would it not be politic? No one is going to vote for trump because he was impeached, his
base is set in stone and always turns out. Meanwhile, impeachment hearings would excite the
Dem base and increase turnout. Further, the GOP Senators up for re-election in purple states
would face retribution if they do not vote for impeachment.
What I can't understand about some commenters here is the level of political naivety.
== quote ==
The right thing is to Impeach Trump, but it may not be the Politic thing given S. McConnell's
majority in the GOP in Senate.
== end ==
Let's assume that neoliberal Dems impeached Trump and got President Pence as a reward.
Than what ?
At this point the only way to get rid of Trump is to defeat him in 2020 elections. And
currently neoliberal Dems desperate moves to save face only improve Trump chances. Already
high.
I would like to know who dusted off and pushed in the fight Biden ?
Biden from the very beginning has had zero changes to defeat Trump. Now with Burisma
scandal in full bloom he is just a walking political zombie.
Especially taking into consideration effect on 2020 election of the outcome of the
impeachment process in the House and outcome of Schiff investigation ( with his recent
blunder -- an attempt to get Flynn to testify; Flynn saga in not about Russia it is about
Israel lobby)
Recent blowback from Lewandowski testimony is just a glimpse of things to come.
== quote ==
And let me also stress this fact: during the 2016 campaign cycle, Mr. Trump held no
elected position. He was not a government official.
Rather, the Obama-Biden Administration and the intelligence community, overseen by James
Clapper, Jim Comey, and John Brennan, had the responsibility to the American people to ensure
the integrity of the 2016 election. I leave it to this committee and the American public to
decide how successful -- or not -- they were in doing their jobs.
Regardless, as the special counsel determined, there was no conspiracy or collusion
between the Trump campaign and any foreign government, either on my watch or afterward. Not
surprisingly after the Mueller report was made public, interest in the Fake Russian collusion
narrative has fallen apart.
Sadly, the country spent over three years and 40 million taxpayer dollars on these
investigations. It is now clear the investigation was populated by many Trump haters who had
their own agenda -- to try and take down a duly elected President of the United States.
As for actual "collusion", or "conspiracy", there was none. What there has been however,
is harassment of the President from the day he won the election.
== end ==
If this not a political checkmate for Nadler I do not know what is
Rudy Giuliani leveled serious new claims at the Bidens in a series of Monday morning
tweets. Chief among them is a claim that $3 million was laundered to former Vice President
Joe Biden's son, Hunter , via a "Ukraine-Latvia-Cyprus-US" route - a revelation he claims was
"kept from you by Swamp Media."
Rudy Giuliani ✔ @RudyGiuliani
NEW FACT: One $3million payment to Biden's son from Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus to US.
When Prosecutor asked Cyprus for amount going to son, he was told US embassy (Obama's)
instructed them not to provide the amount. Prosecutor getting too close to son and Biden had
him fired.
Rudy Giuliani ✔ @RudyGiuliani
Today though it's the $3 million laundered payment, classical proof of guilty knowledge
and intent, that was kept from you by Swamp Media. Ukraine-Latvia-Cyprus-US is a usual route
for laundering money. Obama's US embassy told Cyprus bank not to disclose amount to Biden.
Stinks!
Trump's personal attorney then mentioned China - where journalist Peter Schweizer reported
Joe and Hunter Biden flew in 2013 on Air Force Two. Two weeks later, Hunter's firm inked a
private equity deal for $1 billion with a subsidiary of the Chinese government's Bank of
China , which expanded to $1.5 billion , according to an article by Schweizer's in the New
York Post .
Rudy Giuliani ✔ @RudyGiuliani
Biden scandal only beginning. Lots more evidence on Ukraine like today's money laundering
of $3 million. 4 or 5 big disclosures. Also the $1.5 billion China gave to Biden's fund while
Joe was, as usual, failing in his negotiations with China is worse.
Giuliani then went on to tweet that the Bidens lied about not discussing Hunter's overseas
business .
On Saturday, Joe Biden said he "never" spoke with Hunter about the Ukrainian energy company
that Hunter sat on the board of while being paid $50,000 per month. As you're doubtless aware
by now, the elder Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in US loan guarantees from Ukraine
if they didn't fire the investigator probing the company, Burisma.
Rudy Giuliani ✔ @RudyGiuliani
Biden says he never talked to his son about his overseas business. Do you think we can
prove, with our fact a day disclosures, it's a lie-a false exculpatory statement. Do we have
to prove, or do you already know, it's a lie, and an incriminating statement.
Hunter, however, admitted in July that the two did speak about his Ukraine business "just
once," telling the New Yorker " Dad said, 'I hope you know what you are doing,' and I said,
'I do' "
Rudy then lashed out at the Democratic party, which he said would "own" Biden's scandals
if hey don't "call for investigation of Bidens' millions from Ukraine and billions from
China."
Rudy Giuliani ✔ @RudyGiuliani
If Dem party doesn't call for investigation of Bidens' millions from Ukraine and billions
from China, they will own it. Bidens' made big money selling public office. How could Obama
have allowed this to happen? Will Dems continue to condone and enable this kind
pay-for-play?
Here's what we know about Hunter's dealings in China based on Schweizer's reporting via
our May report :
Hunter Biden and his partners created several LLCs involved in multibillion-dollar private
equity deals with Chinese government-owned entities.
The primary operation was Rosemont Seneca Partners - an investment firm founded in 2009
and controlled by Hunter Biden, John Kerry's stepson Chris Heinz, and Heniz's longtime
associate Devon Archer. The trio began making deals "through a series of overlapping
entities" under Rosemont.
In less than a year, Hunter Biden and Archer met with top Chinese officials in China , and
partnered with the Thornton Group - a Massachusetts-based consultancy headed by James Bulger
- son nephew of famed mob hitman James "Whitey" Bulger (h/t @Guerrilla_Magoo for the
correction).
According to the Thornton Group's Chinese-language website, Chinese executives "extended
their warm welcome" to the "Thornton Group, with its US partner Rosemont Seneca chairman
Hunter Biden (second son of the now Vice President Joe Biden."
Officially, the China meets were to "explore the possibility of commercial cooperation and
opportunity," however details of the meeting were not published to the English-language
version of the website.
"The timing of this meeting was also notable. It occurred just hours before Hunter Biden's
father, the vice president, met with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Washington as part of the
Nuclear Security Summit ," according to Schweizer.
Perhaps most damning in terms of timing and optics, just twelve days after Hunter and Joe
Biden flew on Air Force Two to Beijing, Hunter's company signed a "historic deal with the
Bank of China ," described by Schweizer as "the state-owned financial behemoth often used as
a tool of the Chinese government." To accommodate the deal, the Bank of China created a
unique type of investment fund called Bohai Harvest RST (BHR). According to BHR, Rosemont
Seneca Partners is a founding partner .
It was an unprecedented arrangement: the government of one of America's fiercest
competitors going into business with the son of one of America's most powerful decisionmakers
.
Chris Heinz claims neither he nor Rosemont Seneca Partners, the firm he had part ownership
of, had any role in the deal with Bohai Harvest. Nonetheless, Biden, Archer and the Rosemont
name became increasingly involved with China . Archer became the vice chairman of Bohai
Harvest, helping oversee some of the fund's investments. - New York Post
And while Hunter Biden had "no experience in China, and little in private equity," the
Chinese government for some reason thought it would be a great idea to give his firm business
opportunities instead of established global banks such as Morgan Stanley or Goldman
Sachs.
Also in December 2014, a Chinese state-backed conglomerate called Gemini Investments
Limited was negotiating and sealing deals with Hunter Biden's Rosemont on several fronts.
That month, it made a $34 million investment into a fund managed by Rosemont.
The following August, Rosemont Realty, another sister company of Rosemont Seneca,
announced that Gemini Investments was buying a 75 percent stake in the compan y. The terms of
the deal included a $3 billion commitment from the Chinese, who were eager to purchase new US
properties.
Shortly after the sale, Rosemont Realty was rechristened Gemini Rosemont.
Chinese executives lauded the deal. - New York Post
"Rosemont, with its comprehensive real-estate platform and superior performance history, was
precisely the investment opportunity Gemini Investments was looking for in order to invest in
the US real estate market," said Li Ming, chairman of Sino-Ocean Land Holdings Limited and
Gemini Investments. " We look forward to a strong and successful partnership. "
Three years later, a crack pipe, two DC driver's licenses and other paraphenelia would be
found in a rental car Hunter Biden returned to an Arizona Hertz location in the middle of the
night .
The morning after the car was dropped off, a phone number belonging to a renowned local
"Colon Hydrotherapist" called the Hertz . The caller identified himself as "Joseph McGee,"
who told the employees that the keys were located in the gas cap as opposed to the drop
box.
Amazing how so many countries would scramble to do business with Hunter - a guy with
virtually no experience who was discharged from the Navy after testing positive for cocaine -
who just happened to be the Vice President's son.
Biden, His Son and the Case Against a Ukrainian Oligarch
By JAMES RISEN
As Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. aims to curb corruption in Ukraine, his son, Hunter,
sits on the board of a Ukrainian company that the American ambassador has accused of having
"illicit assets."
[ Here, December 2015, was New York Times coverage of the involvement of Vice President
Biden and Hunter Biden in Ukraine. So that there is a frame of reference. ]
The current "whistleblower" from intelligence services revival of this scandal might be
designed as a Trojan horse to weaken Trump and simultaneously to end Biden run.
Intelligence services did have their favorite candidate in 2016. It is logical to assume
that they have it for 2020.
How can one know whether or not the accusation is false after all the obstruction? If it were
a false accusation, why obstruct? This is circular reasoning. Like Mike - I will also be
ignoring.
Ilsm is a traitor. He is okay with Trump blowing up the whistleblower act. He is okay with
Trump being a puppet of a foreign rival. He is fine with the President being personally
compromised by at least 3 foreign governments. There is only one word that fits. Traitor.
I think you have problem with understanding of the legal terms and the level of criminality
of Biden behavior.
The person in question is not a whistleblower in classical sense revealing potentially
illegal, or unethical act.
This is not the case for Trump talk with Zelensky as the whole conversation lie within the
scope of the existing law (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act).
He is leaker who wants to capitalize on the controversy associated with the fact that
Biden is running for the President and simultaneously his past potentially criminal act of
forcing Ukraine to fire prosecutor who was investigating the company (Burisma) who was paying
large sums of money monthly to his son.
But running for President does not absolve Biden of past criminality.
Trump prompting for the investigation of Biden behavior clearly was acting within the
limit of Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (one billion dollar in view of this act can be
considered as a bribe offered to stop investigation of the company connected to his son)
Remember back in April when the only thing the Dems wanted was an unredacted version of
the Mueller report? Then they wanted Mueller to testify... And they got that.
In this case they also need to move goalposts and this unapt gambit like previous one will
blow in neoliberal Dems face.
As Aaron Maté warns, "They're doubling down on failure: a failure to transform
after losing 2016; & a failure to bring Trump down w/ the failed Russiagate conspiracy
theory."
And here is Buchanan pretty informed take on the matter:
== quote ==
Yet, left out of Biden's drama about how he dropped the hammer on a corrupt Ukrainian
prosecutor was this detail.
The prosecutor had been investigating Burisma Holdings, the biggest gas company in
Ukraine. And right after the U.S.-backed coup that ousted the pro-Russian government in Kiev,
and after Joe Biden had been given the lead on foreign aid for Ukraine, Burisma had installed
on its board, at $50,000 a month, Hunter Biden, the son of the vice president.
Joe Biden claims that, though he was point man in the battle on corruption in Ukraine, he
was unaware his son was raking in hundreds of thousands from one of the companies being
investigated.
Said Joe on Saturday, "I have never spoken to my son about his various business
dealings."
Is this credible?
Trump and Rudy Giuliani suspect not, and in that July 25 phone call, Trump urged President
Volodymyr Zelensky to reopen the investigation of Hunter Biden and Burisma.
The media insist there is no story here and the real scandal is that Trump pressed
Zelensky to reopen the investigation to target his strongest 2020 rival. Worse, say Trump's
accusers, would be if the president conditioned the transfer of $250 million in approved
military aid to Kiev on the new regime's acceding to his demands.
The questions raised are several:
Is it wrong to make military aid to a friendly nation conditional on that nation's
compliance with legitimate requests or demands of the United States?
Is it illegitimate to ask a friendly government to look into what may be corrupt conduct
by the son of a U.S. vice president?
Joe Biden has an even bigger problem : This issue has begun to dominate the news at an
especially vulnerable moment for his campaign.
Was Zelensky pressed by Trump to open investigation on Biden pressing Ukrainian government
to fire Chief Prosecutor (threatening to block one billion IMF package) to squash the
investigation into the gas company Burisma which paid Bind son large monthly "maintenance
fee" for nothing ?
Without answering this question we can't proceed. and answering requires real
investigation into Burisma scandal involving Biden son.
If yes, Biden really falls under foreign corruption act and should be investigated and
prosecuted because he was engaged classic "protection racket" with Poroshenko government and
previously with Provisional government.
In other words he was acting like a typical Mafiosi trying to secure "protection
payments". As such he falls under the RICO statute.
In such case it is duty of any US President to uphold the law ;-).
Why NYT tried to present this as unlawful political pressure ?
Karoun Demirjian, Josh Dawsey, Ellen Nakashima
and Carol D. Leonnig - Washington Post- September 23
WASHINGTON -- President Donald Trump told his acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, to
hold back almost $400 million in military aid for Ukraine at least a week before a phone call
in which Trump is said to have pressured the Ukrainian president to investigate the son of
former vice president Joe Biden, according to three senior administration officials.
Officials at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) relayed Trump's order to the State
Department and the Pentagon during an interagency meeting in mid-July, according to officials
who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. They explained
that the president had ''concerns'' and wanted to analyze whether the money needed to be
spent.
Administration officials were instructed to tell lawmakers that the delays were part of an
''interagency process'' but to give them no additional information -- a pattern that
continued for nearly two months, until the White House released the funds on the night of
Sept. 11.
Trump's order to withhold aid to Ukraine a week before his July 25 call with Volodymyr
Zelensky is likely to raise questions about the motivation for his decision and fuel
suspicions on Capitol Hill that Trump sought to leverage congressionally approved aid to
damage a political rival. The revelation comes as lawmakers clash with the White House over a
related whistleblower complaint made by an intelligence official alarmed by Trump's actions,
and as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., is said to be exploring whether it's time to
allow impeachment proceedings.
Republican senators on the Senate Appropriations Committee said Sept. 12 that the aid to
Ukraine had been held up while the Trump administration explored whether Zelensky, the
country's new president, was pro-Russian or pro-Western. They said the White House decided to
release the aid after Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., threatened to freeze $5 billion in Pentagon
funding for next year unless the money for 2019 was distributed.
One senior administration official said Monday that Trump's decision to hold back the
funds was based on his concerns about there being ''a lot of corruption in Ukraine'' and that
the determination to release the money was motivated by the fiscal year's looming close on
Sept. 30.
There was concern within the administration that if they did not spend the money, they
would run afoul of the law, this official said, noting that, eventually, Trump gave the OMB's
acting director, Russell Vought, permission to release the money. The official emphatically
denied that there was any link between blocking the aid and pressing Zelensky into
investigating the Bidens, stating: ''It had nothing to do with a quid pro quo.''
But on Capitol Hill, Democrats were calling for an investigation of what they viewed as
potential ''extortion,'' as Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey, the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee's ranking Democrat, put it Monday. Trump, he said, is trying to ''reshape American
foreign policy'' to advance his personal and political goals.
''I don't think it really matters . . . whether the president explicitly told the
Ukrainians that they wouldn't get their security aid if they didn't interfere in the 2020
elections,'' said Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn. ''There is an implicit threat in every demand
that a United States president makes of a foreign power. . . . That foreign country knows
that if they don't do it, there are likely to be consequences.'' ...
Instead of 'No Collusion!' Trump Now Seems to Be
Saying, So What if I Did? https://nyti.ms/2mEQWFL
NYT - Peter Baker - September 23
WASHINGTON -- The last time he was accused of collaborating with a foreign power to
influence an election, he denied it and traveled the country practically chanting, "No
collusion!" This time, he is saying, in effect, so what if I did?
Even for a leader who has audaciously disregarded many of the boundaries that restrained
his predecessors, President Trump's appeal to a foreign power for dirt on former Vice
President Joseph R. Biden Jr. is an astonishing breach of the norms governing the American
presidency.
That his phone call with Ukraine's leader took place literally the day after the special
counsel Robert S. Mueller III testified to Congress about Russian interference in the 2016
election demonstrated that Mr. Trump took no lessons from that episode about the perils and
propriety of mixing his own political interests with international relations.
If anything, the president has grown even more defiant since Mr. Mueller found
insufficient evidence to establish a criminal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and
Russia, almost as if having avoided charges, he is daring the establishment to come after him
again. The man who once said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan without
consequence seems to be testing whether he can do the political equivalent.
"What he's learned is you can get away with just about anything if you're willing to
gamble and you have zero shame," said Gwenda Blair, a biographer of the Trump family. "He had
just outbluffed the old-school way of holding people to account, so what the heck, why not go
for it in the phone call to the new, young and vulnerable Ukrainian president?"
Mr. Trump has openly acknowledged raising the topic of Mr. Biden during a July 25 phone
call with President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine in which he urged the newly inaugurated
government to crack down on corruption. While Mr. Trump denied applying pressure to
investigate Mr. Biden, he said it would "have been O.K. if I did."
Likewise, he said that he did not threaten during the call to cut off security aid if
Ukraine failed to investigate Mr. Biden. But he also did not explain why he blocked the aid,
and he quickly added that "we're giving a lot of money away to Ukraine" and it was legitimate
to want to ensure that an aid recipient was "going completely to be not corrupt."
In speaking with reporters while in New York for the annual United Nations General
Assembly, Mr. Trump was in a combative mood on Monday, brimming with hyperbole and invective,
at one point even casually saying that if Republicans had done what Mr. Biden had done,
"they'd be getting the electric chair right now."
Mr. Trump scored his lawyer's rambling and confusing appearance on a CNN show on last week
night like a boxing match. "Rudy Giuliani took Fredo to the cleaners," he said, using a
derogatory nickname for the show's host, Chris
Cuomo. And the president excoriated reporters in the room with him. "You are crooked as
hell," he charged.
Mr. Giuliani has been Mr. Trump's point person in pushing Ukraine for an investigation,
and in recent days, he has thrown out a dizzying series of allegations and conspiracy
theories about the country involving Hillary Clinton, George Soros and others plotting to
take down Mr. Trump in 2016.
But now it is Mr. Trump whose intervention with Ukraine is at issue, and whether it
constitutes an abuse of power will fall to Congress to decide. After bulldozing past so many
other controversies, Mr. Trump has now exposed himself to a greater risk of impeachment in
the House than ever before, even if conviction in the Senate remains a remote
possibility.
"I do regard this as a transgression by the president even more egregious and dangerous,
and even more clearly calling for impeachment, than the many that have come before it," said
Laurence H. Tribe, the Harvard law professor and an author of "To End a Presidency," a book
on impeachment.
"It's difficult to imagine a purer example, even on the president's own account of his
conduct, of why the Constitution's framers thought it essential to include the impeachment
power," he added.
Richard Ben-Veniste, a former Watergate prosecutor, said that if reports about the
president's actions were accurate, it would be "the latest and perhaps most disturbing
example in a series of actions that display a profound disregard for presidential norms by
this president."
Plenty of questions remain unanswered, and Congress will now press for more information,
particularly the release of a transcript of the call with Mr. Zelensky as well as the
complaint filed by an American government whistle-blower raising alarms. A clear focus of the
inquiry will be the blocked aid.
Some critics said it did not even matter if Mr. Trump explicitly linked the two issues in
the call; simply using the power and prestige of his office to lean on a foreign leader for
help in a domestic political contest by itself could justify impeachment, they said. And
suspending the aid, they said, appeared to be a corrupt exercise of presidential power to
benefit himself, whether he mentioned it to Mr. Zelensky or not.
But Mr. Trump's defenders said he was being targeted for partisan and political reasons,
his every move interpreted in the most cynical light and distorted to tarnish his reputation,
while adversaries like Mr. Biden are given a free pass.
The United States "routinely pushes foreign countries to launch broad anti-corruption
initiatives as well as to undertake criminal investigations or prosecutions of specific
persons, both Americans and foreigners," said David B. Rivkin Jr., a lawyer in the
administrations of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush.
"And we routinely back up such requests with threats and blandishments," he added. "So,
political issues aside, there is nothing inherently unusual about Trump's request to
Zelensky."
Mr. Trump and his allies argue that Mr. Biden is the one who abused his power when he was
vice president by threatening to hold up $1 billion in American loan guarantees to Ukraine
unless it fired its chief prosecutor. At the time, his younger son, Hunter Biden, worked for
a Ukrainian oligarch who had come under scrutiny by the prosecutor.
The ouster of the Ukrainian prosecutor, who was widely believed to be turning a blind eye
to rampant corruption, was the consensus position of the Obama administration as well as
European governments and international institutions at the time. No evidence has emerged to
indicate that Mr. Biden acted to protect his son. However unseemly it might be for a family
member to appear to cash in on the vice president's name, no authorities in either country
have alleged illegality by either Biden.
Anthony Scaramucci, who served briefly as White House communications director but has now
broken with the president, said Mr. Trump was not interested in corruption but re-election.
"He is going after Biden hard because he knows Biden destroys him in a general election, and
so he will do and say anything to anybody to knock him out now," Mr. Scaramucci said.
The furor that has developed in recent days will force the White House, Congress, the
Justice Department, the intelligence agencies and perhaps even the courts to confront once
again the question of where the lines of political standards are drawn and whether Mr. Trump
crossed over them.
In more than two years in office, Mr. Trump has kept his properties, which do business
with the federal government and foreign officials, and has even proposed hosting next year's
Group of 7 summit at his Doral resort in Florida. He has repeatedly called on the Justice
Department to investigate his political rivals, and he fired an attorney general who he
complained did not protect him from Mr. Mueller. The president has even sought the
repudiation of weather forecasters who contradicted his hurricane prediction.
In recent days, his lawyers have asserted that not only can Mr. Trump not be indicted
while serving as president, he cannot even be criminally investigated, a far more sweeping
claim of immunity than ever found by courts. And Mr. Trump has made clear he sees no problem
in accepting derogatory information from foreign governments, saying, "I'd take it," even
after the Mueller report.
That leaves the impression with allies and adversaries alike that Mr. Trump is focused on
his own interests. "The president will say and do anything for his own personal pursuits and
not for the benefit of the country," said Heather A. Conley, the director of the Europe
program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
All of which, she said, has damaged the notion of America as a "shining city on a hill,"
as Mr. Reagan put it, the country that would stand for principle, even if it did not always
live up to that aspiration. Now, she said, millions of people around the world "have now
learned that the city is for sale, not unlike other kleptocratic regimes."
Ukraine and Whistle-Blower Issues Emerge as Major
Flashpoints in Presidential Race https://nyti.ms/2V8Ehbx
NYT - Lisa Lerer and Reid J. Epstein - Updated September 22
DES MOINES -- Allegations that President Trump courted foreign interference from Ukraine
to hurt his leading Democratic rival, Joseph R. Biden Jr., dominated presidential politics on
Saturday, as Mr. Biden demanded a House investigation of Mr. Trump's phone call with
Ukraine's leader and as Mr. Trump lashed out, denying wrongdoing without releasing a
transcript of the call.
With Mr. Trump seizing on a familiar defense, saying Democrats were undertaking a "witch
hunt" against him, Mr. Biden called on the House of Representatives to begin a new
investigation of whether the president sought the interference of a foreign government to
bolster his re-election campaign.
"This appears to be an overwhelming abuse of power," Mr. Biden said during a campaign
swing in Iowa. "We have never seen anything like this from any president."
Mr. Trump is said to have urged the Ukranian president on a July 25 phone call to
investigate Mr. Biden's son, Hunter Biden, who did business in Ukraine while his father was
vice president. Mr. Trump's request is part of a secret whistle-blower complaint in the
intelligence community that is said to involve Mr. Trump making an unspecified commitment to
a foreign leader, according to two people familiar with the complaint.
The sharp accusations between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden elevated the president's dealings
with Ukraine as a potentially significant new issue in the presidential race, and offered
voters a preview of what is likely to be an extraordinary general election contest if Mr.
Biden were to win the nomination. ...
The controversy has focused on whether Mr. Trump manipulated foreign policy -- a military aid
package to Ukraine had been delayed at the time of the phone call -- to pressure the
country's newly elected president, Volodymyr Zelensky, to take action to damage Mr. Biden's
election bid.
On Saturday, Mr. Trump sought to deflect attention from that question by accusing Mr.
Biden of acting improperly as vice president in calling for the ouster of a Ukranian
prosecutor who had overseen an inquiry into corruption related to the oligarch whose company
employed Hunter Biden.
Mr. Trump described his conversation with Mr. Zelensky as "perfectly fine and
routine."
"Now that the Democrats and the Fake News Media have gone 'bust' on every other of their
Witch Hunt schemes, they are trying to start one just as ridiculous as the others, call it
the Ukraine Witch Hunt," Mr. Trump wrote on Twitter. He said that any effort to investigate
him would fail, comparing it to the investigation by Robert S. Mueller III, the special
counsel, into his ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign.
Intensifying a line of attack he and his allies have stoked for months, Mr. Trump said the
real problem was Mr. Biden and questions about what the president described as "the Joe Biden
demand that the Ukrainian Government fire a prosecutor who was investigating his son."
Referring to his conversation with Mr. Zelensky, Mr. Trump said: "Nothing was said that
was in any way wrong, but Biden's demand, on the other hand, was a complete and total
disaster."
No evidence has surfaced to support Mr. Trump's claim that the former vice president
intentionally tried to help his son by pressing for the prosecutor general's dismissal. But
some State Department officials had expressed concern that Hunter Biden's work in Ukraine
could complicate his father's diplomacy there.
The issue strikes a particular nerve for Mr. Biden, who has long feared putting his family
under the harsh spotlight of a presidential campaign. During a two-minute encounter with
reporters on Saturday morning, he grew irate, angrily insisting that he had never spoken with
his son about any overseas work. ...
Josh Wingrove and Jennifer Jacobs
Bloomberg News - September 22
Donald Trump appeared to acknowledge on Sunday that he had discussed former Vice President
Joe Biden in a July 25 phone call with Ukraine's president that is the subject of a
congressional investigation.
"The conversation I had was largely congratulatory, was largely corruption, all of the
corruption taking place," the president told reporters as he departed the White House on
Sunday for events in Texas and Ohio. "It was largely the fact that we don't want our people,
like Vice President Biden and his son, creating to the corruption already in the
Ukraine."
Trump said that a mysterious intelligence whistle-blower raised "false alarms" about his
interactions with a foreign leader and said he wouldn't object to his attorney Rudy Giuliani
testifying to Congress about the Ukraine affair.
"You can't have people doing false alarms like this," Trump said of the whistle-blower,
who has not been identified. He added that he'd have "no problem" with Giuliani speaking to
House committees that are investigating allegations the president and his lawyer pressured
the new president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, to re-open an investigation into a company
connected to the family of former Vice President Joe Biden.
In a July 25 phone call with Zelenskiy, Trump asked the Ukrainian leader to investigate
Biden's son Hunter, according to a person familiar with the call. Trump defended the call on
Sunday.
"I said nothing wrong, it was perfect. I assume many people are on the line. I know that
before I make the call," Trump told reporters as he departed for events ahead of the United
Nations General Assembly next week. "What wasn't perfect was the horrible thing Joe Biden
said."
The Washington Post has reported that the whistle-blower's complaint concerns Trump's
interactions with Zelenskiy. Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said in an interview
with a Ukrainian news outlet, Hromadske, on Saturday that "Trump did not pressure
Zelenskiy."
Ukraine's prosecutor general said in May that he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe
Biden or his son, Hunter Biden, who once sat on the board of one of the country's biggest gas
companies. In addition, Vitaliy Kasko, a former deputy prosecutor who pursued a case against
the gas company's owner, told Bloomberg in May that there had been no U.S. pressure to close
the case.
Biden revisited the issue on Saturday while campaigning in Des Moines, Iowa.
"Trump's doing this because he knows I will beat him like a drum," Biden said. "Why is he
on the phone with a foreign leader trying to intimidate a foreign leader if that's what
happened, that appears what happened."
Biden repeated his call for Trump to release the transcript of the Zelenskiy phone call.
Revelations about Trump's interactions with Zelenskiy have led some congressional Democrats
to turn up the heat on their leadership to begin impeachment proceedings against the
president.
Senator Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat, on Sunday called for the whistle-blower "to
come forward."
"Republicans who claim to be national security experts need to demand that the
whistle-blower present himself or herself before Congress," Murphy said in an interview on
NBC's "Meet the Press."
"If we do have the evidence from this whistle-blower that the president indeed did try to
bully a foreign power into affecting our elections, then we have to do something about it,"
he said.
"A coalition of seven freshman Democrats published a fierce opinion article on Monday
decrying claims that President Donald Trump asked the leader of Ukraine to investigate one of
his top 2020 rivals, Joe Biden, calling the shocking reports an "unprecedented" move that, if
true, should result in impeachment.
"We have devoted our lives to the service and security of our country, and throughout our
careers, we have sworn oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States many times
over," the group, all lawmakers who previously served in the U.S. military or defense and
intelligence agencies, wrote in the op-ed in The Washington Post. "Now, we join as a unified
group to uphold that oath as we enter uncharted waters and face unprecedented allegations
against President Trump."
The editorial was written jointly by Reps. Gil Cisneros (Calif.), Jason Crow (Colo.),
Chrissy Houlahan (Pa.), Elaine Luria (Va.), Mikie Sherrill (N.J.), Elissa Slotkin (Mich.) and
Abigail Spanberger (Va.). Many of the lawmakers represent competitive districts that Trump
won in the 2016 presidential race."
"... U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden's American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts -- usually more than $166,000 a month -- from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia. ..."
"... Biden used his power as vice-president to ask the Ukraine to fire a prosecutor he didn't like and who (by chance?) was going after the company which enriched his son. He openly withheld money to achieve his aim. ..."
"... Trump should be impeached for his crimes against Syria, Venezuela and Yemen. ..."
"... But the Democrats will surely not touch on those issues. They are committing themselves to political theater that will end without any result. Instead of attacking Trump's policies and proposing better legislation they will pollute the airwaves with noise about 'crimes' that do not exist. ..."
"... The Democrats are giving Trump the best campaign aid he could have wished for. Trump will again present himself as the victim of a witch hunt. He will again argue that he is the only one on the side of the people. That he alone stands with them against the bad politicians in Washington DC. Millions will believe him and support him on this. It will motivate them to vote for him. ..."
"... It is likely Biden and son are being investigated in Ukraine and dirt or charges will come from it. Dems blowing smoke about impeachment to take attention away from what may come out of Ukraine. ..."
"... What seems even more idiotic, is that Pelosi made this announcement BEFORE the transcript was published. Is everyone senile in the Democratic leadership? ..."
"... Now that Trump has effectively betrayed his base, and - tweets aside - is governing like Hilary Clinton would have, the only way for him to hold on to his base is for them to think that he's being treated unfairly. Make it all about fake impeachment, and nothing about real issues. ..."
"... Remember, the corporate Democrats and the corporate Republicans are all paid by the same masters, they all read form the same script. This is just theater to distract the proles. It's like professional wrestling without the muscles. ..."
"... I would like to suggest another reason for this impeachment malstorm at this point. Trump is acting presidential at the UN. He made a very nationalistic speech that I'm sure the MSM would like to erase. See The future does not belong to globalists. ..."
"... With Gabbard now making it to the next debate the CORPORATE Dems are running scared. Gabbard will be taking someone out, perhaps it'll be either Warren or Biden: maybe "Beto" or "Pete" just to put a stake in the hearts of these clowns (Harris is already fatally wounded -- just waiting for her to finally drop). ..."
"... The Dems cannot attack Trump's policies. They are bound to sing the same song as Trump, just to a different melody. They have the very same masters, and those who pay the bill dictate the music. It is that simple. ..."
"... The Current Oligarchy is behind the strings controlling Pelosi's mouth and teleprompter as Biden won't be nominated, and it can't totally count on Warren's allegiance. Gabbard has already voiced her opposition to Trump's impeachment, arguing that it's better to beat him at the polls. ..."
"... Trump re-election chances just shot up. Not just the Biden collateral damage, but this is a clear reprise of the Russiagate nonsense. This will re-energize the Trump base - and Trump is going to cry all the way back to the White House saying he's being unfairly prosecuted. Saker is saying this is a literal reprise, but it is irrelevant if that is true or not. ..."
"... A bit off topic, but, DJT's speech at the UN was a eff'en joke. Everything he said about Iran, Venezuela, and other countries negatively, was the most blatant use of "projection" I've ever heard. ..."
"... If during that phone call, Trump would have said in Biden's style "I expect an indictment of Hunter Biden until next week, otherwise Ukraine won't receive any money any more." the push towards indictment would be understandable. But just mentioning Biden's corruption, for which there are strong indications, can be no basis can hardly be a basis for impeachment. ..."
"... A second reason that may be plausible is that Joe Biden is quite influential within the Democratic party, he may have been enraged that someone dared to speak about his corruption and therefore have demanded impeachment. ..."
"... Perhaps impeachment is also meant to distract from the findings about the origins of Russiagate and FISA abuse that will probably soon come out. But it may still be a bit unwise to choose something that is so closely connected with Biden's corruption (and probably also with the fabrication of Russiagate for which the DNC's Ukraine connections were also used). ..."
"... But Michael Tracey said this before the contents of the phone call was known, and I think it is fair to say it is rather underwhelming, and impeachment could end in an embarrassment for Democrats. ..."
"... I think Tulsi Gabbard who so far seems to be the only Democrat who clearly spoke out against impeachment proceedings could profit from this - even though a majority of Democrats currently seems to be in favor of impeachment, the percentage of Democrats who oppose impeachment on such dubious grounds and prefer campaigning on real political issues is probably much higher than Gabbard's current rating, and some of those could be motivated to support her. ..."
"... If a corporate Democrat who is fully behind impeachment is nominated, the chances in the general election are probably not that great, anyway. Even though polls now show the opposite, I hardly think Biden could win against Trump - not only because of the profiteering of the Biden family from his vice presidency, but mainly because of the clear signs of mental decline. ..."
"... Of all the various misdeeds committed by the Trump government over the last few years within US borders and without, the one crime Nancy Pelosi decides to go after Trump over turns out not only a non-crime but it is not even a pale shadow of a more egregious incident in which Joe Biden, while US Vice-President, pressured the Ukrainian government under Porky Pig Poroshenko to sack Viktor Shokin as Prosecutor General for launching an investigation into possibly corrupt activities of Burisma Holdings and in particular of one of its directors who happens to be Joe Biden's son, Hunter. ..."
"... Incidentally wasn't a major shareholder of Burisma Holdings at one time (if not currently) the notorious Ihor Kolomoisky, governor of Dnepropetrovsk region in mid-2014, about the time that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing passenger jet fell from the sky in a region where Burisma Holdings had been granted a license to explore and prospect for shale oil? ..."
"... Incidentally Dmitri Alperovich, CEO of Crowdstrike, the cyber-security company that worked for the DNC during the 2016 Presidential election campaign, is a Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council and its Digital Forensics Research Lab where Eliot Higgins of Bellingcat is a non-resident advisor. ..."
"... I feel that the Democrats' real problem with Trump is that he ended their corruption financing plan for the future. I would like to add Trump just replaced the Democrats corruption plan with his own, but OOPS, the Democrats haven't provided any evidence of that, instead they spent 3 years trying to prove something that never happened. ..."
"... Instead the Democrats chased a ghost for 3 years and now the Democrats have just signalled that they will spend the next 6 months trying to impeach Trump for investigating Joe Biden's corruption. The American people have, in effect, been defrauded of their political leadership time, how do the Democrats think this will go over with the American voters in 2020. ..."
"... impeachment provides another topic to help avoid discussion of the Empire, its wars, ..."
"... Yes, the congress-critters get to enjoy a well-paying job with an annual salary of $174,000 and increase their already high likelihood of getting re-elected if they don't do anything notable that people might not like, but only play politics and sound important on presidential betrayals like (quoting Pelosi) "betrayal of our national security and betrayal of the integrity of our elections." ..."
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi yesterday
announced to open an
impeachment process against President Donald Trump:
Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced on Tuesday that the House would initiate a formal impeachment inquiry against President Trump,
charging him with betraying his oath of office and the nation's security by seeking to enlist a foreign power to tarnish a rival
for his own political gain.
Instead of running on policy issues the Democrats will (again) try to find vague dirt with which they can tarnish Trump. This
is a huge political mistake. It will help Trump to win his reelection.
After two years of falsely accusing Trump to have colluded with Russia they now allege that he colludes with Ukraine. That will
make it much more difficult for the Democrats to hide the dirty hands they had in creating Russiagate. Their currently preferred
candidate Joe Biden will get damaged:
For the past two years, talk of impeachment had centered around the findings of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who
investigated Russia's interference in the 2016 elections and Mr. Trump's attempts to derail that inquiry. On Tuesday, Ms. Pelosi,
Democrat of California, told her caucus and then the country that new revelations about Mr. Trump's dealings with Ukraine, and
his administration's stonewalling of Congress about them, had finally left the House no choice but to proceed toward a rarely
used remedy. ... At issue are allegations that Mr. Trump pressured the president of Ukraine to open a corruption investigation
of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., a leading contender for the 2020 Democratic presidential nomination, and his son.
The conversation is said to be part of a whistle-blower complaint that the Trump administration has withheld from Congress. And
it occurred just a few days after Mr. Trump had ordered his staff to freeze more than $391 million in aid to Ukraine.
Trump indeed withheld money
from the Ukraine. But the Ukrainian president did not know that when Trump spoke with him:
Mr. Trump did not discuss the delay in the military assistance on the July 25 call with Mr. Zelensky, according to people familiar
with the conversation. A Ukrainian official said Mr. Zelensky's government did not learn of the delay until about one month after
the call.
At that time Trump was withholding money from several countries. The money for the Ukraine was released in early September without
any known conditions.
The immediate impulse to start an impeachment investigation came from some whistle blower in the intelligence community who claimed
that Trump did something nefarious during a phone call with the newly elected President of Ukraine Zelensky.
The White House published a
memorandum of the phone call
. The call was made on July 25 2019, a day after the final Robert Mueller testimony in Congress. There are two passages which the
Democrats will claim are damaging:
President Zelenskyy: [...] I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue
to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.
The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot
about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess
you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole
situation.. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you
or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor
performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever
you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.
President Zelenskyy: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President,
it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page of cooperation in relations between
the United States and Ukraine. [...]
Trump wanted Zelensky to look into the Ukrainian influence on the whole Russiagate campaign. There certainly was a lot of it.
The three Ukrainian-American Chalupa sisters,
Alexandra
,
Irena and Andrea , worked with the DNC and Ukrainian
officials in Washington and Kiev to
sabotage the Trump campaign
. They are, together with other Ukraine affiliated persons like the Dimitry Alperovich, the CEO of the
hacks at Crowd
Strike, at the core of Russiagate.
The Mueller investigation closed a day before the phone call. It found that Trump had not colluded with Russia or the alleged
Russian influence on the 2016 election. That Trump wants the new Ukrainian leader to investigate what Ukrainian officials did in
support of a debunked campaign against him may be a wrong thing to do but it is certainly not criminal.
In another passage Zelensky says that he will soon meet Trump's lawyer Rudi Guiliani who wanted to revive an investigation into
the Ukrainian company that hired Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden while vice-president Biden himself was running U.S. foreign policy
with regards to Ukraine. Trump then
asks for support for
Giuliani:
President Zelenskyy: [...] I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr.Giuliani just recently and we are
hoping very much that Mr. Guliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. [...] We are great
friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround
myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations
will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.
The President: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A
lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved.
Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I
will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy.
If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people
she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that The other thing, There's a lot of talk about
Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the
Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It
sounds horrible to me.
Zelensky then again assures Trump that the incoming prosecutor general will look into the issue.
Trump asks for investigations and Zelensky assures him that those will happen. Trump applied no open pressure. There is of course
always implicit pressure any time a U.S. president utters a wish to the president of a country that needs U.S. good will and money
to survive.
As for the Biden case it was Joe's Biden big mouth that brought the issues back into light. In January 2018 he gave a talk at
the Council of Foreign Relations and explained how he
directly threatened
( video ) to withhold money to blackmail the Ukraine
into firing a prosecutor general who was seen as corrupt:
And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan
guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor.
And they didn't.
So they said they had -- they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I'm not going to -- or, we're not going
to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You're not the president. The president said -- I said, call
him. (Laughter.) I said, I'm telling you, you're not getting the billion dollars. I said, you're not getting the billion. I'm
going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor
is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who
was solid at the time.
Biden did that at a time when his son
lobbied for the Ukrainian company Burisma who the prosecutor he wanted fired investigated (or maybe blackmailed):
U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden's American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one
of its accounts -- usually more than $166,000 a month -- from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when
Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia.
The general prosecutor's official file for the Burisma probe -- shared with me by senior Ukrainian officials -- shows prosecutors
identified Hunter Biden, business partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.
There is no direct evidence that Joe Biden told the Ukrainians to stop the investigation into Burisma. But it was not difficult
for the Ukrainians to figure out that ending the investigation into the company that Joe Biden's son worked for would help them with
further requests to him.
How the Democrats want to construct an impeachment out of this is beyond me.
Trump is the president. Foreign policy is his constitutional prerogative. He used his power to ask the Ukraine to open investigations
into two issues. He withheld money but not to achieve that. The Ukrainians did not even know at that time that the money was blocked.
Biden used his power as vice-president to ask the Ukraine to fire a prosecutor he didn't like and who (by chance?) was going after
the company which enriched his son. He openly withheld money to achieve his aim.
How will the Democrats explain that what Trump did was wrong or even criminal while insisting that what Joe Biden did was normal
business?
They can't. Pelosi knows that there is no case to impeach Trump. That's why she
does not have a plan
how to do proceed with it:
Although Ms. Pelosi's announcement was a crucial turning point, it left many unanswered questions about exactly when and how Democrats
planned to push forward on impeachment. ... And Ms. Pelosi said she had directed the chairmen of the six committees that have
been investigating Mr. Trump to "proceed under that umbrella of impeachment inquiry." In a closed-door meeting earlier in the
day, she said the panels should put together their best cases on potentially impeachable offenses by the president and send them
to the Judiciary Committee, according to two officials familiar with the conversation. That could potentially lay the groundwork
for articles of impeachment based on the findings.
Pelosi has nothing. Six committees have investigated Trump issues but so far found nothing to charge him with. Neither did the
Mueller investigation find anything damaging. How will combining all those nothing-burgers make an impeachment meal?
Trump should be impeached for his crimes against Syria, Venezuela and Yemen.
But the Democrats will surely not touch on those issues. They are committing themselves to political theater that will end
without any result. Instead of attacking Trump's policies and proposing better legislation they will pollute the airwaves with noise
about 'crimes' that do not exist.
There is no case for impeachment. Even if the House would vote for one the Senate would never act on it. No one wants to see a
President Pence.
The Democrats are giving Trump the best campaign aid he could have wished for. Trump will again present himself as the victim
of a witch hunt. He will again argue that he is the only one on the side of the people. That he alone stands with them against the
bad politicians in Washington DC. Millions will believe him and support him on this. It will motivate them to vote for him.
Why is it so hard for Democrats to understand this?
Posted by b on September 25, 2019 at 18:03 UTC |
Permalink
It is likely Biden and son are being investigated in Ukraine and dirt or charges will come from it. Dems blowing smoke about impeachment
to take attention away from what may come out of Ukraine.
What seems even more idiotic, is that Pelosi made this announcement BEFORE the transcript was published. Is everyone senile
in the Democratic leadership?
Missing the point. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
Now that Trump has effectively betrayed his base, and - tweets aside - is governing like Hilary Clinton would have, the
only way for him to hold on to his base is for them to think that he's being treated unfairly. Make it all about fake impeachment,
and nothing about real issues.
Remember, the corporate Democrats and the corporate Republicans are all paid by the same masters, they all read form the
same script. This is just theater to distract the proles. It's like professional wrestling without the muscles.
I would like to suggest another reason for this impeachment malstorm at this point. Trump is acting presidential at the UN.
He made a very nationalistic speech that I'm sure the MSM would like to erase. See
The future does not belong
to globalists.
In a continuation of the anti-globalist, sovereign-nations theme, Trump warned against totalitarianism and the erosion
of democracy and individual freedoms. "We must always be skeptical of those who want conformity and control," he told the assembly.
"Even in free nations, we see alarming signs and new challenges to liberty."
Obviously, the MSM needs some very negative news about Trump to breathlessly report instead.
Keep in mind that when when we're talking Biden, Pelosi et al we're talking CORPORATE Dems. CORPORATE Dems will do anything,
even lose an election, to ensure that there is the least disruption to their corporate funders -- they would rather have Trump
in office than say Sanders. The Dem's campaign is showing a lot of weakness in their CORPORATE Dem puppets in which case they're
afraid of allowing Sanders to rise (working really hard to push up the CORPORATE Wishy-Washy-Warren).
With Gabbard now making it to the next debate the CORPORATE Dems are running scared. Gabbard will be taking someone out, perhaps
it'll be either Warren or Biden: maybe "Beto" or "Pete" just to put a stake in the hearts of these clowns (Harris is already fatally
wounded -- just waiting for her to finally drop).
Instead of attacking Trump's policies and proposing better legislation
This is exactly the point. They can't! They are paid by the same 0.1 % as the Republicans. They can only propose to secure
the Mexican border by other means (drones! lol), they would continue to deport small children just as Obama did, continue all
illegal wars, and try to enrich the ruling class even further. Just like Trump. That's why they got rid of candidates like Gabbard
that fast and instead install an old man suffering from dementia.
The Dems cannot attack Trump's policies. They are bound to sing the same song as Trump, just to a different melody. They
have the very same masters, and those who pay the bill dictate the music. It is that simple.
Yep, b's 100% correct that there're plenty of grounds on which to impeach the entire upper echelon of TrumpCo that won't ever
make it into whatever Articles of Impeachment are generated. The Ukrainian stuff is all political with absolutely no impeachable
offense incurred.
The Current Oligarchy is behind the strings controlling Pelosi's mouth and teleprompter as Biden won't be nominated, and it
can't totally count on Warren's allegiance. Gabbard has already voiced her opposition to Trump's impeachment,
arguing that it's better to beat him at the polls.
Sanders in contrast, has endorsed impeachment
. IMO, Gabbard's approach is best. However, IMO, both Sanders and Gabbard must plan on what to do when the DNC again throws the
nomination to someone other than the best candidate to beat Trump as the DNC is wholly owned by the Current Oligarchy.
karlof1 - if sanders had any character he would have left the dem party and ran as an independent... at this point the dem party
is completely insane..
Trump re-election chances just shot up. Not just the Biden collateral damage, but this is a clear reprise of the Russiagate
nonsense. This will re-energize the Trump base - and Trump is going to cry all the way back to the White House saying he's being
unfairly prosecuted. Saker is saying this is a literal reprise, but it is irrelevant if that is true or not.
"Why is it so hard for Democrats to understand this?"
I think they understand that they need a big distraction, even if it later swirls down the toilet like the previous turd, because
Brennan's tit is in the wringer. If Brennan is indicted, then the whole corrupt Russia-hoax starts unraveling. I think the DNC
gerontocracy are playing for time with this fiasco out of desperation on several fronts.
I don't think the issue is Sanders's "character;" if you follow
his Twitter , you'll quickly discover he has a fine character, as with this proposal:
"We are going to end homelessness and build millions of new affordable housing units -- paid for with a tax on the billionaire
class."
Sometimes, I don't think he wants to become POTUS, which has allowed him to get rather radical by US political norms. I also
wonder how closely those promoting him pay attention to the DC Circus. Given Pelosi and Co's opposition to a host of Bernie's
proposals--particularly Medicare For All--it seems wise to put them into the oppositional camp too, as I have.
Mistake or not, I'll enjoy the theater, IF, it's on MSM. Personally, I'd like to know if the "whistle blowers" accusations can
hold water. It needs to be released.
If this regime has nothing to hide, let your people respect lawful summons to testify. If DJT continues to advise them to ignore
'em, that's obstruction..
P.S. This coming circus will be a massive distraction, and keep relevant issues from the public a little longer, which, the
corporatists will love.
The Dims seem to be setting new records in Stupid, and, as we all know - you can't fix Stupid. Surely they see that while Trump
is an appalling scoundrel elected almost by accident due to the Stupid factor in the Dims prior campaign - Pense is a certifiable
Lunatic. Too scary for words.
I think maybe casey # 18 is right. The Dims are running scared because they think something Really wicked this way comes.
On the other hand, it is a nice distraction from the Greta Pet Rock Whinging Society - itself a distraction from, well, reality....
A bit off topic, but, DJT's speech at the UN was a eff'en joke. Everything he said about Iran, Venezuela, and other countries
negatively, was the most blatant use of "projection" I've ever heard.
I think what's going in the brain trust of the DNC is something like this:
i. Biden is a non-starter with the public. He'll be devoured alive by the Republicans, who only need to bring up his career
to expose his mendacity. ii. Warren might be co-opted, having been a Republican and fiscal conservative up to the mid-90s, but
what if she isn't? iii. Sanders is a non-starter, but with the "people who matter".
Rather than having to threaten him with the
suspicions around his wife, or go for the JFK solution, they'd rather he didn't even get past the primaries, much less elected.
iv. As a CNN talking head said weeks ago, it's better for the wealthy people the DNC is beholden to that their own candidate loses
to Trump if that candidate is Sanders.
So better to hedge their bets. Start impeachment hearings, give Trump ammunition to destroy Sanders or Warren. That way, the
rich win in all scenarios:
a. If Biden wins the nomination, the campaign will be essentially mudslinging from both sides about who is more corrupt. The
rich are fine with whoever wins. b. If Warren gets the nomination and is co-opted, the media will let the impeachment hearings
die out, or the House themselves will quickly bury it. c. If Warren gets the nomination and is not co-opted, or if Sanders get
it, the impeachment will suck up all the air of the room, Trump will play the witchhunt card and be re-elected.
If during that phone call, Trump would have said in Biden's style "I expect an indictment of Hunter Biden until next week, otherwise
Ukraine won't receive any money any more." the push towards indictment would be understandable. But just mentioning Biden's corruption,
for which there are strong indications, can be no basis can hardly be a basis for impeachment.
If the new rule was that any contact
with foreign governments relating to information that can be relevant in elections, Hillary Clinton should have been disqualified
before the election because her team and the DNC worked with Ukraine to get dirt on Manaford (and anything they could find about
people around Trump, let alone the Steele dossier for which rumors were also collected abroad).
The behavior of Democrats seems a bit odd. They start impeachment procedures although a majority of Americans is against this
(so, despite the polarization, a sizable percentage is against Trump, but wants him to be defeated in elections rather than be
impeached, which hardly won't happen anyway when it is tried). I think there are probably mainly two possible reasons.
One is
that, although a majority of Americans overall is against impeachment, a majority of Democratic voters is currently in favor of
impeachment. Obviously, as to many issues, Democrats don't do what a majority of their voters want (they generally don't when
their voters want something different from what their donors want), but sometimes, they do what a majority of their voters wants,
even if it is rather stupid strategically.
A second reason that may be plausible is that Joe Biden is quite influential within
the Democratic party, he may have been enraged that someone dared to speak about his corruption and therefore have demanded impeachment.
Perhaps impeachment is also meant to distract from the findings about the origins of Russiagate and FISA abuse that will probably
soon come out. But it may still be a bit unwise to choose something that is so closely connected with Biden's corruption (and
probably also with the fabrication of Russiagate for which the DNC's Ukraine connections were also used).
An interesting question is what the influence on the primaries will be. Obviously, it will be rather inconvenient for those
candidates who are senators (Sanders, Warren, and others that may or may not be in the race at that time) if there are impeachment
hearings in the Senate at the same time as primaries. Michael Tracey thinks the impeachment procedure would rather help Elizabeth
Warren (who had been demanding impeachment for some time) and Joe Biden, while it would be quite inconvenient for Bernie Sanders
because he would primarily want to talk about things like economic inequality and healthcare, and constant headlines about impeachment
only hinder this.
But Michael Tracey said this before the contents of the phone call was known, and I think it is fair to say it is rather underwhelming,
and impeachment could end in an embarrassment for Democrats. The suspicious profiteering of the Biden family will inevitable constantly
be an ubiquitous subject, and even if the media who support the Democrats attempt to frame this in a way that protects Biden,
in the end, it can hardly be good for him. Of course, a significant part of the Democratic basis is now completely consumed by
conspiratorial thinking (in some online forums, we can see constant claims that Trump has been found guilty of conspiring with
Russia and that the Mueller report confirmed this because it did not "exonerate" him) - they will support impeachment without
caring on what basis is done. But if they continue with such a weak case, support for impeachment could weaken even among Democratic
primary voters, and then fervent impeachment proponents like Elizabeth Warren may not profit from this.
I think Tulsi Gabbard who so far seems to be the only Democrat who clearly spoke out against impeachment proceedings could
profit from this - even though a majority of Democrats currently seems to be in favor of impeachment, the percentage of Democrats
who oppose impeachment on such dubious grounds and prefer campaigning on real political issues is probably much higher than Gabbard's
current rating, and some of those could be motivated to support her. That way, she might move up. At the moment, it seems unlikely
that she could win outright, but if she has good results and Sanders is elected, there might be a chance that she is appointed
to an important position (e.g. Secretary of State) where she has influence on foreign policy.
If a corporate Democrat who is fully behind impeachment is nominated, the chances in the general election are probably not
that great, anyway. Even though polls now show the opposite, I hardly think Biden could win against Trump - not only because of
the profiteering of the Biden family from his vice presidency, but mainly because of the clear signs of mental decline. Maybe
Sanders can, like with the Russiagate conspiracy theory, nod to the establishment enough that he does not get in trouble, but
not invest himself too much in that partisan bickering that he is not damaged too much when it fails.
Huawei Chairman Liang Hua told China-Germany-USA Media Forum that the US putting Huawei on entity list has had no substantial
impact on Huawei's business. All of the company's flagship products are shipped normally. Ecosystem of Huawei's end products will
be built in 2-3 years.
B is once again a sane voice that is being drowned out by a chorus of screaming DC morons. The stupidity of those cretins that
run the US of A has no limits. It is indeed infinite! Get ready America, the orange haired jackass (with my apologies to that
durable, noble beast of burden) will get another four years in the White House thanks to the Democratic Party's leadership. Reason
and logic roll-off what passes for their brains like water on a duck's back. The late journalist, critic and cynic H.L. Mencken
was once asked why if he so disliked America why then did he remain in it? He replied, "why do men go to zoos?"
The only way this will help Democrats is that perhaps Biden will vanish from the political scene more expeditiously. I theorize
that his current "support" is not related to any particular position but nostalgia and a certain amiability -- that vanishes when
you try to understand what (the hell) is he saying. That said, Trump is a master of assorted serious facial expression, can spontaneously
coin an insult, for him Biden is a lamb waiting to be roasted.
The Democratic impeachment process isn't a mistake it's a strategy. As with Bojo's Brexit or the Canadian election centrally planned
to result in a weak minority, the UK-centred financiers of the Leviathan Soviet needs weak governments to enact their derivative
flushing and fiat takedown exercise + the inevitable Financial Patriot Act that follows, as Mark Carney essentially promised several
weeks ago.
Sever the head of the beast. Arrest and prosecute the gangsters and financiers when they make their only possible move. The
Lubavitcher mob will be used as scapegoats but we can't stop there. Those directing this centuries long crime spree against humanity
must be held accountable for their perfidy and their every pilfered asset must be returned to the people from which they stole.
There's probably an internal struggle in the Democratic Party between the "democratic socialists" (Sanders, Warren?, Gabbard,
AOC etc.) and the liberals (the "establishment": Pelosi, Biden, DNC etc. etc.).
The term "democratic socialism" comes from the early Cold War in the UK, more precisely, in the right-wing of the Labour party
at the time (also called "Gaitskellites"). It proposes general welfare state policies in order to best manage the capitalist boom
of post-war Britain while, at the same time, embracing the idea of capitalism. Democratic socialists are not really socialists
-- but they still represent a radical leftwards turn for the political spectrum of the USA, hence are seen as an existential threat
to the American electoral machine.
My guess is the liberal faction of the Democratic Party sees Biden as its last hope of aborting the historical process that
brought Trump to power thus reconnecting American recent history with Obama's legacy. It's either that or a permanent transformation
of American political landscape for the forseeable future.
The problem is that Biden is probably extremely corrupt and has a lot of skeletons in Ukraine. If said investigation proceeds
honestly and quickly in Ukraine, my hypothesis is that Biden will go down and even be arrested (alongside his son). That would
permanently damage the liberal faction.
The American people still is rabidly anti-socialist (or "anti-communist", in Cold War terminology that they still use nowadays).
However, American capitalism has reached its structural limits and even mild socialistic reforms such as universal healthcare
free at the point of use is too much for the country to handle without collapsing. For practical purposes, the American elite
must consider democratic socialism (Gaitskellism) as full-fledged socialism simply because they are very fragile -- that's also
why dumbed down leftists such as Elizabeth Warren and AOC are disferring such devastating blows to the liberals and are so popular.
At the same time, Trump's reelection would still be bad for the American capitalist class as whole because he is eroding America's
image to its allies. This is specially true to its First World allies (Western Europe and Japan). The special case here is Atlanticism,
i.e. the ideology that posits the existence of a unified Western Civilization in the North Atlantic that strikes envy to the rest
of the world (in Asia and India in particular). Besides, a lot of very powerful American billionaires owe their social status
to outsourcing to China, so they prefer a Russophobe in the White House instead of a Sinophobe. The American elite is divided.
That Sanders and Gabbard work within the duopoly is all that needs to be known. One person can only make a difference if there
is a party that is independent of the duopoly behind them. We had one here for a bit. Took the combined efforts of the duopoly
and media plus splitting her electorate and then jailing her to bring her down. I didn't agree with some of the policies, but
that was the first time in my life I voted as they were not part of the system.
While it's true that there is nothing impeachable here (replace the name "Biden" with "Assange" or "Snowden" and imagine if anyone
would have even batted an eyelash at this). That said Trump talks too much. I only hope that this was a rookie mistake as it was
done a long time ago but he just talks too much. People make too much of too many unguaraded comments. Anyway, as to why the democrats
need this instead of talking policy, that's easy. All their large campaign contributors are very much against the ideas of the
progressive wing in their party and without the progressive wing their policies are the same as the republicans on every major
issue. They think it helps them in the election. Kinda stupid but Schumer, Pelosi, Leahey, Grassley and the rest of the gang will
drive the party straight into the ground rather than upset their large campaign contributors because that's the seat of their
power and why all their policies are identical to republican policies.
OMG! Trump and Zelensky talk again, now on TV. The recording snap I have seen shows Trump saying thoughtfully "I hope that you
and Putin will get together and sort out your problems. I know that this is what you were planning to do, and it would be a tremendous
achievement. Zelensky looks as if he just learned about the death of his beloved babushka.
The Democratic Party position is only incomprehensible if you assume they actually want to win and govern in the people's interest.
They clearly do not. Late empire circumstances dictate that the pseudo-left choice on the ballot cannot actually adopt any positions
opposing the elite, so all that is left is identity politics and orange man bad to veil this increasingly obvious and embarrassing
scam. Trump will prevail against any non-progressive Democratic candidate running an orange man bad campaign. Book it.
News that an impeachment inquiry is being initiated instantly sent stock prices tumbling on Tuesday, but that small jolt is nothing
compared to what we will experience if Donald Trump is actually impeached. Over the past couple of years we have seen a tremendous
boom in stock prices, and one of the big reasons for that boom is the fact that the folks on Wall Street know that Trump is always
going to be looking out for their best interests. Trump understands that his chances of winning again in 2020 will be greatly
enhanced if stock prices are rising and most Americans believe that we have a "booming economy", and so he wants to do everything
in his power to try to make those things happen. That means that Trump's short-term interests are perfectly aligned with Wall
Street's short-term interests, but things will shift dramatically if someone like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders ends up in
the White House. Wall Street knows that they have a friend in Donald Trump, and losing that friend would potentially be absolutely
devastating.
B.'s post and the comments (so far) are a refreshing change of pace from the US mass-media coverage, which as usual treats this
as another "bombshell" event to be taken at face value.
Since I try to avoid corporate mass-media infoganda, I can only assume that the Biden video referenced in the post has not
gotten much mainstream airplay. As the quoted bit shows, Biden is openly and smugly bragging to an enthusiastic audience about
how he successfully gave Ukraine's leaders an ultimatum: either fire the prosecutor who was investigating his crooked son, or
lose "a billion dollars" in aid.
Sounds like an, er, quid pro quo , no? Unlike the accusation against Trump, Biden's motives and actions don't have to
be hyped, massaged, and spun to create the "impression" of misconduct-- the video speaks for itself.
I've seen alternative-media speculation that the DNC, or some faction within the Democratic Party leadership, actually want
this "bombshell" to boomerang back upon Biden and force him to withdraw his candidacy. There are indications that Elizabeth Warren
has been moved to the on-deck circle.
I lack expertise and interest in electoral-politics handicapping, but it may be that since the odious Kamala Harris isn't exactly
a "hit" with the public, and the charade of Sanders being an "independent" may exclude him from the position of the Democratic
Party's 2020 "standard-bearer", Warren is considered "electable".
Warren has issues too, but if Biden drops out for one reason on another, the Dem strategists probably see her as a New! Improved!
version of Hillary: a "historic" candidate by identity-politics standards, a reassuringly "safe pair of hands" in contrast to
Wild 'n Crazy Trump, and though hardly "charismatic", more personable than Hillary and with less baggage.
Given the Democratic Party leadership's TDS-saturated hysteria and groupthink, it's plausible that the Dems hope that their
ongoing assault on Trump's character will prime the public to enthusiastically turn to a reformist "clean as a hound's tooth"
schoolmarm type for political salvation.
Theory 1) Perhaps given Trump will not agree to a launch a war with Iran, there are those who do, assuming Pence is the idiot
who will agree to starting such a war?
"Biden used his power as vice-president to ask the Ukraine to fire a prosecutor he didn't like.... Pelosi has nothing"
Theory 2) Perhaps the Dems have faced reality after all and know Biden who will lose to Trump. Is this a backhanded way to
smear Biden, forcing him to pull out of the race once this inevitably blows up in his face?
This is puzzling. I can't see why the thread has been stymied into overshoot but it has. Never mind, the issue was so important
that it is worth doing our best to scroll sideways on the comments.
I also cannot see why Sanders has shot himself in the foot. Perhaps he thinks, with all the pressures of the office, it is
better left to Trump.
Thank you b, for analyzing the phone call. How can this be seen as an impeachable issue? It is all very strange indeed, since
calling attention to the situation with Biden's son cannot be in the best interests of the Democratic party, and yet that is what
Pelosi has done.
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..." Is that it?
stupidity of those cretins that run the US of A has no limits. It is indeed infinite! Get ready America, the orange haired jackass
(with my apologies to that durable, noble beast of burden) <-- GeorgeV | Sep 25 2019 20:09 utc | 33
As anyone with some contact with computing knows (using a laptop should be sufficient), information processing power comes
from small size of processing units and their number. In a living mammal, the but has some trillions of bacteria in the gut, and
this is the source of ideas for some (they pull them out of their anus), used sparingly it yields a few megacretins, but we use
most of them, we can reach teracretins and more. But if we assemble more than 1000 experts, politicians, commentators, bloggers
etc., we can get petacrektins. I would need to check calculations, I think that we will not see exacretins.
Also, noble or not, which beasts of burden have sparse orange manes? Baltimore orioles do not count.
I am not sure I agree with the author. The Ukraine call is definitely a bigger scandal than the Mueller's fishing trip, and it
may sway some independents. Much depends on what Trump actually said, how he said it, etc, i.e. the actual phone recording will
decide whether Democrats make the right decision to impeach this time.
which has allowed him to get rather radical by US political norms
If pointing out the crucial problems the US society faces and adding solutions vis "getting radical by Us political norms",
what is radical is not Bernie Sanders discourse, but "US political norms"
Painting him as radical contributes to avoid discussion of those crucial issues by US society.
On Ivan Redondo, Basque, formed at private jesuit Deusto University, and then at the US in political communication, presents
himself as "respectful of all ideologies", amongst which he thinks "we must reach an agreement"...He assures, at his parents home
there is of almost all ideologies ( although I very doubt that there is anyone of the left in his home...but I may be wrong...)
and recommends reading the "suspicious", Freud, Nietzsche, Marx..if not for to learn....An interesting guy, no doubt...
"Trump should be impeached for his crimes against Syria, Venezuela and Yemen" and the Muslim ban, and separating kids from parents
at the US-Mexico border, the denial of asylum too.
Impeachment hearings will give Biden cover for his racism, jingoism, and his flailing memory.
Right Biden and son should be prosecuted for corruption by the USA, but that's true of Trump and his adult children too.
Trump stepped over line and invited Ukraine to work against the candidacy of Biden, doesn't matter what Biden foolishly said
about the prosector in Ukraine.
@Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 25 2019 20:20 utc | 37
One person can only make a difference if there is a party that is independent of the duopoly behind them.
But, is it at all possible in the US, with its current electoral system, present yourself as "independent" for presidential
elections, out of the "duopoly"?
The system in Spain ( although not only of Spain...the "system"...) managed to thwart the popular support of even new third
political force born out of the "15M Movement" ( kinda Occupy...) Podemos, by using a it of kabuki and political machinations
amongst oligarchic powers and monarchy ( and I do not discard also US Embassy, as happened during the NATO referendum... )....Sánchez
flew to have dinner with Macron as soon as he won the past presidential elections...the same night!
DNC just got scared that their front man Biden's dirt is being on the front page. ANYTHING to deflect the attention NOW. They
dont think about long term fallout anyway.
Beautiful. Now that Trump after some years more and more realizes he is indeed president, we may finally see some of his promises
full filled in the coming years. Only question is at what cost. But with Bibi and Bolton out, MBS shaky after Aramco attack, the
neocons influence my finally decrease. Though it may all end out much worse we can imagine. We will see.
News reports are saying that Pelosi changed her position on impeachment because Democrats representing Trump districts suddenly
changed to a pro-impeachment position. Pelosi and Schumer bend over backwards to accommodate these Republicans posing as Democrats,
using them as their excuse for not getting anything meaningful done.
When it became obvious to them that Trump was going all out for Biden, their savior, I believed they got spooked, seeing their
reelection chances plummet if anyone but Biden got the nomination. So of course Pelosi stepped in, as she always does for corrupt,
corporate Democrats, and tried to preempt the Ukraine investigation. It may well backfire.
Democrats will spend the next six months trying to make Trump the issue. Republicans will spend the next six months making
Biden's corruption the issue. Because Ukraine is such a swamp of corruption, the facts of the matter will remain murky. Ukrainian
politicians are likely to say whatever the person controlling the purse strings wants them to say. Back then, it was Obama/Biden.
Now it's Trump until it becomes obvious that Trump won't control the money.
In the process let's hope that a lot of dirty laundry about how the US conducts foreign policy gets aired. One of the major
goals of US foreign policy is to promote US business abroad and any politician would prefer that his supporters and donors get
helped the most which means that tacit, corrupt quid pro quos are the norm.
@37 peter au... thanks.. how is it working out in australia since you voted? has the system reverted to another duopoly?
@46 d dan... did you watch the 1 1/2 minute video
on biden speaking that b shared up above and i am again sharing in this link here? check it out and let us know what you think..
@49 jay.. i agree it was a mistake on trumps part, but biden is caught in a much more serious bind as i see it.. ultimately
this impeachment idea of pelosi's is very dead in the water and will sink biden too.. maybe that is the point?
According to Ivan Redondo at that interview, the Sanders campaign in 2016 was the one really counterposed to that of Trump....
Thus, attacking Sanders now could equate campaigning for The Donald...hwen who must be attacked is Biden...
Sasha I do not know enough about the system in Spain to make any comment in that direction.
Re US and an independent president. The two party system or duopoly would take an independent down immediately using impeachment.
Impeachment is somewhat different to criminal investigation and trial. A claim can be made and is voted on first by congress.
If enough votes it then goes to the senate who vote as to guilty or not. For any president to survive, they must have backers
in either the congress or senate.
https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2019/09/open-thread-on-the-effort-to-expel-trump-from-office-through-impeachment.html
"It takes a simple majority (218) for the House of Representatives to pass a bill of impeachment against any federal official.
The Democrats have 232 seats in the present congress. The Bill (equivalent to an indictment) then is transferred to the US Senate
where the impeached person is tried before the US Senate with the Chief Justice of the United State presiding.. 2/3 of the senators
must vote for conviction for that to occur. Two presidents have been impeached. None has been convicted."
Biden is in no trouble. He is/will make the case that the removal of the Ukrainian prosecutor was supported by many people
and allies that saw the prosecutor as slow/unwilling to tackle corruption in Ukraine.
This is whole thing is truly a nothing-burger distraction from the fact that we are on the cusp of war.
When Joe Biden's son, Hunter was appointed to the board of Burisma, the Vice-President's spokesperson described Hunter as just
"a private citizen".
In case anyone believes that the Ukrainian company appointed Hunter Biden purely on merit (and not because of who his father
is), there are a few things that should be considered:
- Hunter had no previous experience either in eastern Europe or in the gas industry.
- His appointement was made just a few days before his Dad visited Ukraine:
- Joe Biden gave a speech during his visit, in which he encouraged Ukraine's 'energy security'( to Ukrainian Legislators in
Kiev on April 22, 2014).
- The day before that speech (three days after Hunter's appointment), the White House announced that the USA would help with
Ukraine's 'energy security' by sending expert teams in the following weeks. The aim was "to help Ukraine meet immediate and longer
term energy needs" and "to increase conventional gas production from existing fields to boost domestic energy supply".
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/04/21/fact-sheet-us-crisis-support-package-ukraine
The Democrats have made a big mistake by drawing attention to the Bidens' interests in Ukraine.
When Joe Biden's son, Hunter was appointed to the board of Burisma, the Vice-President's spokesperson described Hunter as just
"a private citizen".
In case anyone believes that the Ukrainian company appointed Hunter Biden purely on merit (and not because of who his father
is), there are a few things that should be considered:
- Hunter had no previous experience either in eastern Europe or in the gas industry.
- His appointement was made just a few days before his Dad visited Ukraine:
- Joe Biden gave a speech during his visit, in which he encouraged Ukraine's 'energy security'( to Ukrainian Legislators in
Kiev on April 22, 2014).
- The day before that speech (three days after Hunter's appointment), the White House announced that the USA would help with
Ukraine's 'energy security' by sending expert teams in the following weeks. The aim was "to help Ukraine meet immediate and longer
term energy needs" and "to increase conventional gas production from existing fields to boost domestic energy supply".
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/04/21/fact-sheet-us-crisis-support-package-ukraine
The Democratics have made a big mistake by drawing attention to the Bidens' interests in Ukraine.
the people at the dnc don't really care about winning, they just have to make sure the dollars keep rolling in, and that people
like gabbard and sanders lose. to that end, they try political grandstanding like talking about impeaching trump and keeping russiagate
alive.
Yeah, straight back to the duopoly. Greens always get a few votes but they're no different. Put a vote on a long shot one time.
He had a falling out with his side of the duopoly and set up a new party. Gained the ballance of power and all roads from both
sides of the duopoly led to his door. Literally he sat back in his chair, big obese clown shirt half unbuttoned and held court
there. In the end the duopoly caved in and gave him the required permits for to run a rail line from a new coal mine he was kicking
of to the coast. Straight away he was one of the boys again, and those of his party that had been elected left him and become
independents. Entertaining while it lasted though.
from
Pelosi statement : "The president has admitted to asking the president of Ukraine to take actions which would benefit him
politically. The actions of the Trump presidency revealed dishonorable facts of betrayal of his oath of office and betrayal of
our national security and betrayal of the integrity of our elections.'
presidential oath of office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the
United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." It comes
from Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution.
So: > It's not clear why a US president asking a foreign president to investigate the actions of an American to cause the firing
of a prosecutor is wrong. > The only way such an investigation could benefit Trump politically is if that American (Biden) had
done something wrong. > So obviously Biden did do something wrong. > Therefore we must conclude that wrongdoing by Americans in
other countries must not be publicized because that might affect elections. > Americans voters should not be allowed access to
information about US politicians acting badly in foreign countries, and any president who requests such information should be
impeached. > The integrity of our elections requires the withholding of some information from voters, when it impacts badly on
Democrats.
Oh the irony of the Democrats building their impeachment case on information from a whistleblower. After the record shattering
prosecutions of the Obama Presidency, I didn't think there were any left. This instance of Biden's oral incontinence is just one
reason he's a poor choice. Besides being on the wrong side of history on every issue of importance, according to another whistleblower
Edward Snowden, Biden was responsible for EU nations denying him asylum and was the primary reason he ended up in Russia.
I find it impossible to believe the narrative we are being fed that politicians with decades of experience with shrewdness and
the swamp of DC under their belts could possibly step on their own dicks this many times in a row by accident. This has the feel
of being orchestrated reality TV playing to the Trump victim narrative that barely pushed him over the hump in 2016.
And impeachment provides another topic to help avoid discussion of the Empire, its wars, and the financial burden it places on
everything. The very sour state of the Empire's economy was mentioned above; in that light, I suggest
this excellent
if somewhat technical essay , as a multitude at the bar have voiced their approval of the topic: "Are We Approaching the End
of Super Imperialism?"
Jackrabbit I reckon we are going to see Netanyahu but with Lieberman who is worse (more homicidal lunacy) even than nutty, calling
some of the shots. I think it was Lieberman behind the downing of the Russian plane.
This is my go to site now for real news and evaluation, thanks b. The overall thread here fits my perceptions in many ways except
for the elephant in the room and that is the tremendous influence (power) that the Zionist/Neocon/Israeli Fifth column has over
US government, political parties, media and foreign governments. Why is this so lightly touched on here or dismissed as "corporate
interests"? Is this site vulnerable to those special interests or $$? Or are there so many shills here ready to destroy anyone
mentioning it? I guess I will see?
Bravo!! Your next pint's on me! I merely stated no impeachable offense was committed while you laid out the illogic of it all!
As with Bill Clinton's impeachment, none of the Articles focused on the genuine crimes he committed, and the same will prove
true with Trump. Lots of Jonesing for Pence as POTUS, a desire by many D-Partyites since Trump's win. My guess is the election
will occur before the trial's resolved in the Senate if it even gets that far.
After 3 years of the Democrates being totally up their own asses, I've come to the sad conclusion that they must be paid to lose,
there's simply no rational explanation for how insane they've behaving, 3 or 4 crazy Democrates shouting at trees is one thing,
but there's not one Democrat pointing out how deranged they've been behaving. I can only imagine that their campaign contributors
are laughing into their sleeves as they wright one check to the Republicans and then a slightly smaller one for the Democrates.
John Sanguinetti Israel does have strong influence on the US. I have noticed that many who would like to concentrate on just that
aspect in anything that happens, Try to place all blame on Israel and depict the US as an innocent baby led astray. It was a conscious
choice for the US to side with Israel and unless the yanks can clean up their act, there will always be an Israel. In fact there
are many Israels behind anything political in the US. To name them all is just a matter of looking up who puts money into politics,
be it sponsorship or lobbying or has in any way a hold over one or more elected politicians. You will find that virtually nobody
can run for a public office in the US and hope to win without having a sugar daddy.
Please, see this excellent interview of The Duran: "BIDEN SCANDAL EXPLODES: UKRAINE FRACKING, MONEY LAUNDERING, BANK OF CHINA
PAYOFFS" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxk9Pnw4tbM
With Gabbard now making it to the next debate the CORPORATE Dems are running scared. Gabbard will be taking someone out, perhaps
it'll be either Warren or Biden: maybe "Beto" or "Pete" just to put a stake in the hearts of these clowns (Harris is already fatally
wounded- just waiting for her to finally drop).
Posted by: Seer | Sep 25 2019 18:37
Tulsi is making up for all those years wasted in the medical unit and shines in her new job: bomb throwing. One bomb hit Kamala
the hanging prosecutor, the most recent "we are not Saudi prostitutes" is even better. I would most sincerely ask people here
to contribute to her campaign and see your pennies at work. Of course, if you would rather see debates full of establishment collegiality
then you should not do it.
One of the reasons that I doubt Biden's version of the story stems from my experience in Venezuela. After Chavez took power, Venezuelans
told me that he had found that a critical subsidiary of the Venezuelan oil company PDVSA was basically a CIA shop. The names of
CIA on the Board of Directors were not just ordinary CIA, but were recognizable figures at the very top. To me this is entirely
plausible. Control of oil is critical to US global hegemony. And what better way to control foreign oil than to have trusted American
asset sit on the BOD? This brings us to Hunter Biden's appointment to Ukrainian energy giant Burisma. After the coup in 2014,
why wouldn't Biden want a trusted asset on the board of the biggest natural gas producer in Ukraine? IOW it was unpublicized standard
operating procedure.
"For decades there has been a "catch me if you can" quality about Donald Trump, skipping from casino bankruptcies to fraudulent
universities to porn actor payoffs." True--- But that may be coming to a end.
Thank you Piotr Berman #77, I share that view with you. Tulsi Gabbard is changing the debate and corporate Dems AND Repugs are
terrified of a wave.
I see that Bernie's moment is coming where he will have to choose to either step in line as a sheepdog or take a truly independent
path. He is unlikely to run again in 4 years and given the vice grip that these corporate Democrat party thugs have on the machine
it may well be time for a leader to go on strike against the machine and run as a people's president.
Tulsi is running hard and I dont expect her to break ranks but I do not see her capitulating as a sheep dog either given her
profound focus on messages that the USA working and middle class support. They both need to consider their power and risk in taking
direct action in this campaign when the watershed moment arises.
It is funny, The Dems spent 4 years trying to find the stain on the dress for Trump and impeach him for lying about it - and it
seems that they have absolutely no other idea how to get into power. There is an election next year, and still they prefer to
shoot themselves in the foot rather than appeal to voters. Step one of course would be to listen to voters - the ones telling
them to shut up about impeachment and find a candidate under 65 with electable policies. In that sense the inevitable departure
of Biden is good for the Dems.
Why is it so hard for Democrats to understand this?
Is the key question. Psychiatrists would call it projection. The Dems seem to take everything bad that they get accused of
and accuse the oppo early. Thus The Russia smears on Trump came right after internal research told Hillary that she was vulnerable
to corruption charges over Uranium One. (it is to the Trump campaign's great credit that they did not respond to the silly Russia
gate charges by Hillary by pointing to the far more serious and credible corruption charges against HRC and the $145 million payment
to the Clinton foundation by the guy that was permitted by HRC to sell his Uranium stake to Russia's Rosatom. Rather Trump ignored
media chat and stuck to his message to voters - essentially that the Dems had abandoned the working man and that Trump at least
listened to them.)
And clear criminal behaviour by Biden with Ukraine is the model to accuse Trump in the Biden coverup (though surely he gets
ditched now - the Chinese $1 billion to the hedge fund run by Biden's son + Kerry Step-son + big drugs criminal and murder, Whitey
Bulger's nephew is just dynamite - just wait till we get to discussing why Obama never faced down China over trade!!).
Has to be said that with all this media power but no policies the Dems are doing appallingly badly, with much of the blowback
from the Mueller inquiry yet to hit them.
That's a rather macabre balancing act that the creatures in DC are performing. They are certainly a strange lot. I wonder just
how badly the faction being represented by the DNC and Democratic Party actually screwed up (on a global/cosmic scale that is).
Because, they sure do seem to be stuck in freak out mode. I mean, it is a known fact that Obama, and Biden, were directly responsible
for the Kiev coup (I'm sorry, but anyone who believes otherwise really needs a little cognitive adjustment therapy), so that's
not really a bombshell. Everyone already knows that Clinton was on point for the Arab Spring and the Libya debacle (to include
bumping off a US diplomat), not to mention in on the ground floor of the entire aggression against Syria (and possibly had a finger
in the aggression against Yemen). So, these things are in no way able to be considered secrets (even if they do ammount to Nuremberg
style war crimes). What else could these ridiculous creatures possibly be afraid of people finding out about, which would prompt
them to behave so aggressively towards someone who merely mentions 'maybe looking into somebody's something'?
Of all the various misdeeds committed by the Trump government over the last few years within US borders and without, the one crime
Nancy Pelosi decides to go after Trump over turns out not only a non-crime but it is not even a pale shadow of a more egregious
incident in which Joe Biden, while US Vice-President, pressured the Ukrainian government under Porky Pig Poroshenko to sack Viktor
Shokin as Prosecutor General for launching an investigation into possibly corrupt activities of Burisma Holdings and in particular
of one of its directors who happens to be Joe Biden's son, Hunter.
Incidentally wasn't a major shareholder of Burisma Holdings at one time (if not currently) the notorious Ihor Kolomoisky, governor
of Dnepropetrovsk region in mid-2014, about the time that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing passenger jet fell from the sky in a region
where Burisma Holdings had been granted a license to explore and prospect for shale oil?
God, even the real news network is descending into madness over this Trump impeachment, they just interviewed Elie Mystal & Alexandra
Flores-Quilty and they have drunk the cool-aid so hard they are basically convulsing on the floor. According to them investigating
Joe Biden's video confession of extortion is a crime but Joe Biden's extortion is perfectly fine.
I feel that the Democrats' real
problem with Trump is that he ended their corruption financing plan for the future. I would like to add Trump just replaced the
Democrats corruption plan with his own, but OOPS, the Democrats haven't provided any evidence of that, instead they spent 3 years
trying to prove something that never happened.
Millions of dollars, millions of manhours of political discourse and newsmedia
coverage, all of it wasted. Those hours could have been used discussing foreign policy, economic policy, healthcare policy, industrial
policy, environment policy but nope. Instead the Democrats chased a ghost for 3 years and now the Democrats have just signalled
that they will spend the next 6 months trying to impeach Trump for investigating Joe Biden's corruption. The American people have,
in effect, been defrauded of their political leadership time, how do the Democrats think this will go over with the American voters
in 2020.
impeachment provides another topic to help avoid discussion of the Empire, its wars,
Yes, the congress-critters get to enjoy a well-paying job with an annual salary of $174,000 and increase their already high
likelihood of getting re-elected if they don't do anything notable that people might not like, but only play politics and sound
important on presidential betrayals like (quoting Pelosi) "betrayal of our national security and betrayal of the integrity of
our elections."
Dems don't take the A Train, they take the B Trail! . . .sorry, I couldn't resist a corny joke (again)
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Two years after leaving office,
Joe
Biden
Joe
Biden
United
Auto Workers strike against GM poised to head into eighth day
Trump
doubles down on call to investigate Biden after whistleblower complaint: 'That's the real story'
Omar:
Biden not the candidate to 'tackle a lot of the systematic challenges that we have'
MORE
couldn't resist the temptation last year to brag to an audience of foreign policy specialists about
the time as vice president that he strong-armed Ukraine into firing its top prosecutor.
In his
own words, with video cameras rolling,
Biden
described how
he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama
administration would pull $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, sending the former Soviet republic
toward insolvency, if it didn't immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin.
ADVERTISEMENT
William Russo, a spokesman for Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden did not respond to email messages
Monday seeking comment. The phone number at Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC in Washington was no
longer in service on Monday.
Although Biden made no mention of his son in his 2018 speech, U.S. and Ukrainian authorities
both told me Biden and his office clearly had to know about the general prosecutor's probe of
Burisma and his son's role. They noted that:
Hunter Biden's appointment to the board was widely reported in American media;
The U.S. Embassy in Kiev that coordinated Biden's work in the country repeatedly and
publicly discussed the general prosecutor's case against Burisma;
Great Britain took very public action against Burisma while Joe Biden was working with that
government on Ukraine issues;
Biden's office was quoted, on the record, acknowledging Hunter Biden's role in Burisma in a
New York Times article about the general prosecutor's Burisma case that appeared four months
before Biden forced the firing of Shokin. The vice president's office suggested in that article
that Hunter Biden was a lawyer free to pursue his own private business deals.
President Obama named Biden the administration's point man on Ukraine in February 2014, after a
popular revolution ousted Russia-friendly President
Viktor Yanukovych
and as Moscow sent military forces into Ukraine's Crimea territory.
According to Schweizer's book, Vice President Biden met with Archer in April 2014 right as
Archer was named to the board at Burisma. A month later,
Hunter Biden was named to the board
, to oversee Burisma's legal team.
But the Ukrainian investigation and Joe Biden's effort to fire the prosecutor overseeing it has
escaped without much public debate.
Most of the general prosecutor's investigative work on Burisma focused on three separate cases,
and most stopped abruptly once Shokin was fired. The most prominent of the Burisma cases was
transferred to a different Ukrainian agency, closely aligned with the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, known
as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (
NABU
),
according to the case file and current General Prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko.
NABU closed that case, and a second case involving alleged improper money transfers in London
was dropped when Ukrainian officials failed to file the necessary documents by the required
deadline. The general prosecutor's office successfully secured a multimillion-dollar judgment in a
tax evasion case, Lutsenko said. He did not say who was the actual defendant in that case.
But then, as Biden's 2020 campaign ramped up over the past year, Lutsenko -- the Ukrainian
prosecutor that Biden once hailed as a "solid" replacement for Shokin -- began looking into what
happened with the Burisma case that had been shut down.
Lutsenko told me that, while reviewing the Burisma investigative files, he discovered "members
of the Board obtained funds as well as another U.S.-based legal entity, Rosemont Seneca Partners
LLC, for consulting services."
"Unfortunately, Mr. Biden had correlated and connected this aid with some of the HR (personnel)
issues and changes in the prosecutor's office," Lutsenko said.
Nazar Kholodnytskyi, the lead anti-corruption prosecutor in Lutsenko's office, confirmed to me
in an interview that part of the Burisma investigation was reopened in 2018, after Joe Biden made
his remarks. "We were able to start this case again," Kholodnytskyi said.
But he said the separate Ukrainian police agency that investigates corruption has dragged its
feet in gathering evidence. "We don't see any result from this case one year after the reopening
because of some external influence," he said, declining to be more specific.
Ukraine is in the middle of a
hard-fought
presidential election
, is a frequent target of intelligence operations by neighboring Russia
and suffers from rampant political corruption nationwide. Thus, many Americans might take the
restart of the Burisma case with a grain of salt, and rightfully so.
But what makes Lutsenko's account compelling is that federal authorities in America, in an
entirely different case, uncovered financial records showing just how much Hunter Biden's and
Archer's company received from Burisma while Joe Biden acted as Obama's point man on Ukraine.
Between April 2014 and October 2015, more than $3 million was paid out of Burisma accounts to an
account linked to Biden's and Archer's Rosemont Seneca firm,
according to the financial records
placed in a federal court file in Manhattan in an unrelated
case against Archer.
The bank records show that, on most months when Burisma money flowed, two wire transfers of
$83,333.33 each were sent to the Rosemont Seneca–connected account on the same day. The same
Rosemont Seneca–linked account typically then would pay Hunter Biden one or more payments ranging
from $5,000 to $25,000 each. Prosecutors reviewed internal company documents and wanted to
interview Hunter Biden and Archer about why they had received such payments, according to
interviews.
Lutsenko said Ukrainian company board members legally can pay themselves for work they do if it
benefits the company's bottom line, but prosecutors never got to determine the merits of the
payments to Rosemont because of the way the investigation was shut down.
As for Joe Biden's intervention in getting Lutsenko's predecessor fired in the midst of the
Burisma investigation, Lutsenko suggested that was a matter to discuss with Attorney General Barr:
"Of course, I would be happy to have a conversation with him about this issue."
As the now-completed Russia collusion investigation showed us, every American deserves the right
to be presumed innocent until evidence is made public or a conviction is secured, especially when
some matters of a case involve foreigners. The same presumption should be afforded to Joe Biden,
Hunter Biden, Devon Archer and Burisma in the Ukraine case.
Nonetheless, some hard questions should be answered by Biden as he prepares, potentially, to
run
for president in 2020
: Was it appropriate for your son and his firm to cash in on Ukraine while
you served as point man for Ukraine policy? What work was performed for the money Hunter Biden's
firm received? Did you know about the Burisma probe? And when it was publicly announced that your
son worked for Burisma, should you have recused yourself from leveraging a U.S. policy to pressure
the prosecutor who very publicly pursued Burisma?
John Solomon is an award-winning investigative journalist whose work over the years has
exposed U.S. and FBI intelligence failures before the Sept. 11 attacks, federal scientists' misuse
of foster children and veterans in drug experiments, and numerous cases of political corruption. He
serves as an investigative columnist and executive vice president for video at The Hill.
Tags
Hillary Clinton
William Barr
Joe Biden
Ed Case
Hunter Biden
Yuriy Lutsenko
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The question begs to be asked: Why is the person who came forward with a story about
President Trump and a telephone conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky still
being referred to as a whistleblower?
Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, Michael Atkinson, is a Trump appointee.
Allegedly he found a reason to go forward with a complaint lodged against President Trump
stemming from a conversation with Zelensky in July. The anonymous "whistleblower," as it turns
out, is not, in fact, a whistleblower. The complainant is essentially a gossipmonger. The
person admits no direct
knowledge of the conversation. Doesn't that seem to be an important fact in this whole
story?
The whistleblower didn't have direct knowledge of the communications, an official briefed
on the matter told CNN. Instead, the whistleblower's concerns came in part from learning
information that was not obtained during the course of their work, and those details have
played a role in the administration's determination that the complaint didn't fit the
reporting requirements under the intelligence whistleblower law, the official said.
This anonymous person has no direct knowledge of the call and his/her "concerns" come from
information that was not "obtained during the course of their work". Thus, this person doesn't
fit the title of a whistleblower. Yet, that is still the narrative in the media. There is no
whistleblower, there is only a leaker with an agenda to push. This story stinks to high
heaven.
White House and the Justice Department, according to reports, are rightfully advising the
director of national intelligence that the complaint isn't covered by the laws applying to
intelligence whistleblowers. So far, the acting Director of National Intelligence, Joseph
Maguire, has not agreed to cooperate in releasing a transcript of the president's conversation.
Maguire will testify before the House Intelligence Committee Thursday behind closed doors.
President Trump looks to be well within his rights to have been speaking honestly to the new
Ukrainian leader about corruption in Ukraine. The concern is over whether or not Trump
threatened Zelensky with withholding military aid as he allegedly demanded Zelensky clean up
the corruption. The $250 million
has been released to Ukraine.
"It was entirely reasonable that the United States spent a couple of months getting to
know him and his administration," Lankford said, adding that he had recently visited Kyiv for
the same purpose. "I think we should have moved faster, but there was due diligence, and the
administration has been active in trying to get lethal aid to the Ukrainians in the
past."
Speaking at a Defense Writers Group event Thursday, R. Clarke Cooper, assistant secretary
of state for political-military affairs, announced that Congress was notified late Wednesday
that $141.5 million in funding was available to Ukraine. That money covers sniper rifles,
grenade launchers and other items.
Why is it considered unusual for President Trump and his administration to go slow with
delivering substantial military aid to Ukraine when Zelensky had only recently come into power
and his allegiance to the United States was uncertain? That sounds like due diligence. But,
this is 2019 and the Mueller Report blew up in the faces of Democrats frothing at the mouth for
the impeachment of President Trump, so this telephone call conveniently emerged as the next
best thing.
Connect the dots. President Trump spoke with Zelensky the day after Mueller testified to
Congress. This "whistleblower" can very likely turn out to be another Trump deranged swamp
creature who is disappointed that the results of the last election are still being honored and
Trump is still the president. This kind of stunt, masquerading as a patriotic whistleblowing
action, may backfire just like the other attempts to bring about impeachment have so far.
The president is entitled to speak with foreign leaders however he deems appropriate. If
Trump felt that Zelensky needed to be pushed to do the right thing and clean up corruption in
his country, then so be it. Trump's motivation looks to be protecting taxpayer money, the
military aid to Ukraine, not some kind of collusion to gain support in the 2020 election.
Didn't the Democrats learn anything from their humiliation after running with Hillary Clinton's
campaign's phony Russian collusion story against Trump? Apparently not.
Let them proceed. Trump should not release the phone transcript to the public. Why would any
world leader speak candidly to him in future phone conversations if he does so? This is the
latest attempt from Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff to satisfy the far left to continue on with
attempts to impeach Trump.
This Ukraine story and the Bidens is only beginning. There will also now be some checking
into the China connection with the younger Biden while his father was vice-president. Biden's
son was a lobbyist, not an energy expert and the big-money contracts are highly suspect. It's
all very swampy and good old Joe is right in the middle. There are many layers to this story.
Most importantly, Ukraine's foreign minister has already come out and denied any pressure from
President Trump on that phone call.
This story all began with tantalizing headlines. This time we have him. Democrats are
falling for yet another trap and I'm here for it.
And this "Biden Admits to Getting Ukraine Prosecutor who Investigated Son Fired." https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J6zFXc_CNR8&time_continue=51
Biden brags about holding hostage a billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine if Prosecutor
Shokin is not fired. Shokin was investigating Burisma Holdings which Biden's son was on the
board
ANALYSIS: Does Schiff already know the Trump
whistleblower's story? by Susan Ferrechio | September 21,
2019 06:00 AM
Print
this article Did House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff have the inside details
about the Trump whistleblower two weeks ago?
Earlier this month, the California Democrat announced a
"wide-ranging investigation" into allegations President Trump was trying to pressure Ukraine's
government into aiding his reelection campaign.
Schiff ordered the investigation on Sept. 9, hours before he received
the first of two letters from the intelligence community inspector general revealing the
existence of a whistleblower complaint. Multiple news outlets reported this week that the
complaint involved, at least in part, a phone conversation between Trump and recently elected
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.
Inspector General Michael K. Atkinson's letter didn't provide Schiff with the details, but
some Republicans say they suspect Schiff knew them already and was orchestrating a
headline-grabbing story from his perch on the intelligence panel.
Earlier on the day the Atkinson letter arrived,
Schiff demanded the Trump administration turn over documents and correspondence related to
Trump's alleged attempts to get Ukraine government officials to investigate Joe Biden and his
son Hunter.
Included in his list was the transcript of Trump's July 25 call with Zelensky, which news
reports say alarmed the whistleblower.
Schiff insisted to reporters Thursday that he doesn't know the details of the complaint and
accused the president of "trying to stifle whistleblower complaints" and blocking the
information from reaching Congress.
Joseph Maguire, Trump's acting director of national intelligence, is restricting Atkinson
from providing any details about the complaint, Schiff charged after he and other intelligence
panel members met privately Thursday with Atkinson.
But news reports soon emerged saying it involved the call with Zelensky and matched Schiff's
comments about the matter Sept. 9.
In a press release that day, Schiff announced an investigation by the intelligence, foreign
affairs, and oversight panels into efforts by Trump and his attorney former New York City mayor
Rudy Giuliani to get Ukraine government officials to turn over information about Joe Biden, the
leading Democratic presidential candidate.
Trump and Giuliani have been seeking data on Biden's role, while he was vice president under
Barack Obama, in pressuring the Ukraine government to fire a prosecutor targeting a Ukrainian
gas company on whose board Biden's son Hunter served.
"While his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani pressures Ukraine to interfere in the 2020
campaign, Trump withholds vital aid Ukraine needs to defend against Russia," Schiff tweeted Sept. 9.
Schiff's representative did not respond to a request for a comment about the fact the
Ukraine investigation was ordered the same day Atkinson sent the letter about the whistleblower
complaint.
The congressman contends he does not know the identity of the whistleblower or the nature of
the complaint and has threatened to take the Trump administration to court to win access to the
information.
In his Sept. 9 letter to White House counsel Pat Cipollone, Schiff demanded the Ukraine call
transcript be turned over to the committee by Sept. 16, a deadline that passed without any
cooperation from the White House.
Two days later, the first leaked whistleblower story appeared in the news.
While Biden now is most often criticized for senility, Biden should be criticized for his
failed policies – support for the Iraq War, Libya, Syria, criminal justice policy etc., as
well as for corruption in Ukraine, that is, for substantive reasons. And he behaviour in Ukraine
alone is enough to dispose his from presidential rrace. Add to this vhis vote on Iraq war and
there is no reason he should be allowed to enter the race.
"... Trump and Rudy Giuliani suspect not, and in that July 25 phone call, Trump urged President Volodymyr Zelensky to reopen the investigation of Hunter Biden and Burisma. ..."
In May 2016, Joe Biden, as Barack Obama's designated point man on Ukraine, flew to Kiev to
inform President Petro Poroshenko that a billion-dollar U.S. loan guarantee had been approved
to enable Kiev to continue to service its mammoth debt.
But, said Biden, the aid was conditional. There was a quid pro quo.
If Poroshenko's regime did not fire its chief prosecutor in six hours, Biden would fly home
and Ukraine would get no loan guarantee. Ukraine capitulated instantly, said Joe, reveling in
his pro-consul role.
Yet, left out of Biden's drama about how he dropped the hammer on a corrupt Ukrainian
prosecutor was this detail.
The prosecutor had been investigating Burisma Holdings, the biggest gas company in
Ukraine. And right after the U.S.-backed coup that ousted the pro-Russian government in Kiev,
and after Joe Biden had been given the lead on foreign aid for Ukraine, Burisma had installed
on its board, at $50,000 a month, Hunter Biden, the son of the vice president.
Joe Biden claims that, though he was point man in the battle on corruption in Ukraine, he
was unaware his son was raking in hundreds of thousands from one of the companies being
investigated.
Said Joe on Saturday, "I have never spoken to my son about his various business
dealings."
Is this credible?
Trump and Rudy Giuliani suspect not, and in that July 25 phone call, Trump urged President
Volodymyr Zelensky to reopen the investigation of Hunter Biden and Burisma.
The media insist there is no story here and the real scandal is that Trump pressed Zelensky
to reopen the investigation to target his strongest 2020 rival. Worse, say Trump's accusers,
would be if the president conditioned the transfer of $250 million in approved military aid to
Kiev on the new regime's acceding to his demands.
The questions raised are several:
Is it wrong to make military aid to a friendly nation conditional on that nation's
compliance with legitimate requests or demands of the United States? Is it illegitimate to
ask a friendly government to look into what may be corrupt conduct by the son of a U.S. vice
president?
Joe Biden has an even bigger problem : This issue has begun to dominate the news at an
especially vulnerable moment for his campaign.
Biden's stumbles and gaffes have already raised alarms among his followers and been seized
upon by rivals such as Cory Booker, who has publicly suggested that the 76-year-old former vice
president is losing it.
Biden's lead in the polls also appears shakier with each month. Sen. Elizabeth Warren has
just taken a narrow lead in a Des Moines Register poll and crusading against Beltway corruption
is central to her campaign.
"Too many politicians in both parties have convinced themselves that playing the
money-for-influence game is the only way to get things done," Warren told her massive rally
in New York City: "No more business as usual. Let's attack the corruption head on."
Soon, it will not only be Trump and Giuliani asking Biden questions abut Ukraine, Burisma
and Hunter, but Democrats, too. Calls are rising for Biden's son to be called to testify before
congressional committees.
With Trump airing new charges daily, Biden will be asked to respond by his traveling press.
The charges and the countercharges will become what the presidential campaign is all about. Bad
news for Joe Biden.
Can he afford to spend weeks, perhaps months, answering for his son's past schemes to enrich
himself through connections to foreign regimes that seem less related to Hunter's talents than
his being the son of a former vice president and possible future president?
"Ukraine-gate" is the latest battle in the death struggle between the "deep state" and a
president empowered by Middle America to go to Washington and break that deep state's grip on
the national destiny.
Another issue is raised here - the matter of whistleblowers listening in to or receiving
readouts of presidential conversations with foreign leaders and having the power to decide for
themselves whether the president is violating his oath and needs to be reported to
Congress.
Eisenhower discussed coups in Iran and Guatemala and the use of nuclear weapons in Korea and
the Taiwan Strait. JFK, through brother Bobby, cut a secret deal with Khrushchev to move U.S.
missiles out of Turkey six months after the Soviets removed their missiles from Cuba.
Who deputized bureaucratic whistleblowers to pass judgment on such conversations and tattle
to Congress if they were offended?
Feb 7 (Reuters) - A senior U.S. State Department officer and the ambassador to Ukraine
apparently used unencrypted cellphones for a call about political developments in Ukraine that
was leaked and touched off an international furor, U.S. officials said in Washington on
Friday.
In the call, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland used an expletive in apparently
disparaging the idea of relying on help from the European Union in negotiating a political
solution in Ukraine.
The U.S. officials said the conversation between Nuland and ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt was
likely intercepted at the Ukraine end and that they believe both Ambassador Pyatt and Nuland
were speaking on cellphones.
An official familiar with the matter said State Department employees, including officials at
a senior level, are not issued cellphones that use encryption.
State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki confirmed this at a regular briefing. "All Department
of State government-owned BlackBerry devices have data encryption. However, they don't have
voice encryption," she said.
The U.S. officials said Pyatt was in Ukraine at the time of the call, although it was not
clear where Nuland was.
They did not give the date of the call, although they said it was recent. The issues that
Nuland and Pyatt discussed occurred in the last few days of January.
The audio clip was first posted on Twitter by Dmitry Loskutov, an aide to Russian Deputy
Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, a diplomatic source said. A second intercepted audio
conversation, between senior European Union diplomats, was posted on YouTube around the same
time.
The Obama Administration has not formally acknowledged the authenticity of the audio clip or
accused any specific party of recording it.
"IMPRESSIVE TRADECRAFT"
Nuland, who met President Viktor Yanukovich in Kiev on Thursday, described the bugging and
leaks as "pretty impressive tradecraft" but said it would not hurt her ties with the Ukrainian
opposition.
In the call, apparently made at a time when opposition leaders were considering an offer
from President Viktor Yanukovich to join his cabinet, she suggested that one of three leading
figures might accept a post but two others should stay out. In the end, all three rejected the
offer.
The leak coincided with accusations from Moscow of U.S. interference in Ukraine. Washington
and European countries back those opposing Yanukovich, a close Kremlin ally.
On Friday one senior U.S. official in Washington said: "The quality of the recording would
certainly indicate that this was not the work of simple hackers, but rather an intelligence
service with an interest in distracting from the efforts of the people of Ukraine to recover
their own government."
The posting of the conversation surfaced as the U.S. faces international uproar over its own
electronic eavesdropping disclosed by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden
last year.
One document leaked by Snowden appeared to indicate that the U.S. had tapped the cellphone
of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, prompting President Barack Obama to announce that spying on
foreign leaders was being curtailed.
Mark Weatherford, a former deputy under secretary for cybersecurity with the U.S. Department
of Homeland Security, said that some senior government officials were issued mobile handsets
that are capable of encrypting conversations but typically do not use them.
"It is expensive. They are different phones. They are cumbersome," said Weatherford, now a
principal with the Chertoff Group, a Washington-based consulting firm led by former senior U.S.
security and intelligence officials.
He said that the conversation that was intercepted would have remained private had the two
officials used encrypted devices.
Chris Morales, research director with the cybersecurity firm NSS Labs, said hacking into an
unencrypted mobile phone line does not require a lot of training and can typically be done
using equipment and software that is widely available. (Additional reporting by Arshad Mohammed
and Jim Finkle; editing by David Storey and David Gregorio)
Rudy Giuliani leveled serious new claims at the Bidens in a series of Monday morning tweets.
Chief among them is a claim that $3 million was laundered to former Vice President Joe Biden's
son, Hunter , via a "Ukraine-Latvia-Cyprus-US" route - a revelation he claims was "kept from
you by Swamp Media."
NEW FACT: One $3million payment to Biden's son from Ukraine to Latvia to Cyprus to US.
When Prosecutor asked Cyprus for amount going to son, he was told US embassy (Obama's)
instructed them not to provide the amount. Prosecutor getting too close to son and Biden had
him fired.
Today though it's the $3 million laundered payment, classical proof of guilty knowledge
and intent, that was kept from you by Swamp Media. Ukraine-Latvia-Cyprus-US is a usual route
for laundering money. Obama's US embassy told Cyprus bank not to disclose amount to Biden.
Stinks!
Trump's personal attorney then
mentioned China - where journalist Peter Schweizer reported Joe and Hunter Biden flew in
2013 on Air Force Two. Two weeks later, Hunter's firm inked a private equity deal for $1
billion with a subsidiary of the Chinese government's Bank of China , which expanded to $1.5
billion , according to an article by Schweizer's in the New
York Post .
Biden scandal only beginning. Lots more evidence on Ukraine like today's money
laundering of $3 million. 4 or 5 big disclosures. Also the $1.5 billion China gave to
Biden's fund while Joe was, as usual, failing in his negotiations with China is worse.
Giuliani then went on to tweet that the Bidens lied about not discussing Hunter's
overseas business .
On Saturday, Joe Biden said he "never" spoke with Hunter about the Ukrainian energy company
that Hunter sat on the board of while being paid $50,000 per month. As you're doubtless
aware by now, the elder Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in US loan guarantees from
Ukraine if they didn't fire the investigator probing the company, Burisma.
Biden says he never talked to his son about his overseas business. Do you think we can
prove, with our fact a day disclosures, it's a lie-a false exculpatory statement. Do we have
to prove, or do you already know, it's a lie, and an incriminating statement.
Hunter, however,
admitted in July that the two did speak about his Ukraine business "just once," telling the
New Yorker " Dad said, 'I hope you know what you are doing,' and I said, 'I do' "
Rudy then lashed out at the Democratic party, which he said would "own" Biden's scandals if
hey don't "call for investigation of Bidens' millions from Ukraine and billions from
China."
If Dem party doesn't call for investigation of Bidens' millions from Ukraine and billions
from China, they will own it. Bidens' made big money selling public office. How could Obama
have allowed this to happen? Will Dems continue to condone and enable this kind
pay-for-play?
Here's what we know about Hunter's dealings in China based on Schweizer's
reporting via our
May report :
Hunter Biden and his partners created several LLCs involved in multibillion-dollar
private equity deals with Chinese government-owned entities.
The primary operation was Rosemont Seneca Partners - an investment firm founded in 2009
and controlled by Hunter Biden, John Kerry's stepson Chris Heinz, and Heniz's longtime
associate Devon Archer. The trio began making deals "through a series of overlapping
entities" under Rosemont.
In less than a year, Hunter Biden and Archer met with top Chinese officials in China ,
and partnered with the Thornton Group - a Massachusetts-based consultancy headed by James
Bulger - son nephew of famed mob hitman James "Whitey" Bulger (h/t @Guerrilla_Magoo
for the correction).
According to the Thornton Group's Chinese-language website, Chinese executives "extended
their warm welcome" to the "Thornton Group, with its US partner Rosemont Seneca chairman
Hunter Biden (second son of the now Vice President Joe Biden."
Officially, the China meets were to "explore the possibility of commercial cooperation
and opportunity," however details of the meeting were not published to the English-language
version of the website.
"The timing of this meeting was also notable. It occurred just hours before Hunter
Biden's father, the vice president, met with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Washington as
part of the Nuclear Security Summit ," according to Schweizer.
Perhaps most damning in terms of timing and optics, just twelve days after Hunter and Joe
Biden flew on Air Force Two to Beijing, Hunter's company signed a "historic deal with the
Bank of China ," described by Schweizer as "the state-owned financial behemoth often used as
a tool of the Chinese government." To accommodate the deal, the Bank of China created a
unique type of investment fund called Bohai Harvest RST (BHR). According to BHR, Rosemont
Seneca Partners is a founding partner .
It was an unprecedented arrangement: the government of one of America's fiercest
competitors going into business with the son of one of America's most powerful decisionmakers
.
Chris Heinz claims neither he nor Rosemont Seneca Partners, the firm he had part ownership
of, had any role in the deal with Bohai Harvest. Nonetheless, Biden, Archer and the Rosemont
name became increasingly involved with China . Archer became the vice chairman of Bohai
Harvest, helping oversee some of the fund's investments. - New
York Post
And while Hunter Biden had "no experience in China, and little in private equity," the
Chinese government for some reason thought it would be a great idea to give his firm business
opportunities instead of established global banks such as Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs.
Also in December 2014, a Chinese state-backed conglomerate called Gemini Investments
Limited was negotiating and sealing deals with Hunter Biden's Rosemont on several fronts.
That month, it made a $34 million investment into a fund managed by Rosemont.
The following August, Rosemont Realty, another sister company of Rosemont Seneca,
announced that Gemini Investments was buying a 75 percent stake in the compan y. The terms of
the deal included a $3 billion commitment from the Chinese, who were eager to purchase new US
properties. Shortly after the sale, Rosemont Realty was rechristened Gemini Rosemont.
"Rosemont, with its comprehensive real-estate platform and superior performance history, was
precisely the investment opportunity Gemini Investments was looking for in order to invest in
the US real estate market," said Li Ming, chairman of Sino-Ocean Land Holdings Limited and
Gemini Investments. " We look forward to a strong and successful partnership. "
The morning after the car was dropped off, a phone number belonging to a renowned local
"Colon Hydrotherapist" called the Hertz . The caller identified himself as "Joseph McGee," who
told the employees that the keys were located in the gas cap as opposed to the drop box.
Amazing how so many countries would scramble to do business with Hunter - a guy with
virtually no experience who was discharged
from the Navy after testing positive for cocaine - who just happened to be the Vice
President's son.
...investigative journalist and bestselling author Peter Schweizer has unearthed Biden's
history of corruption, and that will prove a major issue in the upcoming election.
Schweizer's book came out in March, but since then new evidence of the Biden family
corruption has come to light. Schweizer told Hilton about a bank account unearthed in a New
York conviction against Devon Hunter, a friend of the former vice president's son, Hunter
Biden.
"A bank account that Hunter Biden drew a lot of money from and that a lot of foreign
entities put a lot of money into," the author noted. "Just to give you an idea, over a 14-month
period, from 2014 through early 2016, while Joe Biden is vice president of the United States, a
Ukrainian company called Burisma -- it's controlled by a very corrupt oligarch -- sends three
million dollars into this account."
"A Chinese government entity called Bohai Harvest -- which is run by the Bank of China --
sends $650,000 into this account," Schweizer added. "There's $1.2 million that comes from an
LLC with a small boutique Swiss bank. We don't know who's behind the LLC. The bank itself has
been charged in six countries for money laundering, so that makes it kind of sketchy."
How does this connect to Joe Biden? Not only was the elder Biden vice president at the time,
but he was directly involved with the countries his son struck deals with.
"If you look at the trajectory of Joe Biden as vice president, he was essentially U.S. point
person on Chinese policy, and he was widely criticized for going very soft on them as it
related to the South China Sea," Schweizer said. "That's at the same time his son is getting
large checks from the Chinese government."
"Joe Biden is also point person on U.S. policy towards Ukraine, at the same time that his
son is getting large checks from the Ukrainian government. And he's accused of looking the
other way at fraudulent behavior and corruption with the government of Ukraine," the author
added.
Even so, all the money is only going to Hunter Biden, right? Why does this implicate his
father?
"We're all familiar with globalization and the phenomenon as it relates to the economy and
corporations. Well, corruption is being globalized as well," Schweizer pointed out. With a more
and more globalized economy, U.S. policy has a direct impact on other countries.
Those countries "look for friends in Washington, and one of the best ways to make friends in
Washington is to do deals with family members," he explained.
He laid out how it works: "Joe Biden, every year he's vice president, he has to disclose his
income. Assuming those disclosures are honest, he can't have a big fat check from the Chinese
government in that disclosure form. But this adult son, Hunter Biden? He doesn't have to
disclose anything."
Schweizer's recent book is a must-read. The investigative journalist documented a great deal
of corruption, but Joe Biden and Barack Obama came under the most scrutiny. Biden's son Hunter
and John Kerry's stepson Chris Heinz
both profited from their father's soft policy towards China. Hunter Biden also
reaped rewards from his father's blind eye to Ukraine corruption.
Obama's policies enriched his best friend -- and now head of the Obama Foundation -- Marty
Nesbitt.
Biden may pose a powerful threat to President Donald Trump in 2020. He appeals to many of
the same blue-collar sentiments, and he has his own macho posturing
against Trump. If Democrats choose Biden, however, they may face the same kind of fundamental
weakness they experienced with Hillary Clinton. The skeletons in Biden's closet may not be as
bad as those in Hillary's -- but they are real, and very serious.
Peter Schweizer has the story, and he won't stop telling it.
If this not of the Biden run, I do not know what can be. He now has an albatross abound his neck in the form of interference
in Ukrainian criminal investigation to save his corrupt to the core narcoaddict son. Only the raw power of neoliberal MSM
to suppress any information that does not fit their agenda is keeping him in the race.
But a more important fact that he was criminally involved in EuroMaydan (at the cost to the USA taxpayers around five billions) is swiped under the carpet. And will never be discussed
along with criminality of Obama and Nuland.
As somebody put it "with considerable forethought [neoliberal MSM] are attempting to create a nation of morons who will
faithfully go out and buy this or that product, vote for this or that candidate and faithfully work for their employers for as low a
wage as possible."
For days we've been treated to MSM insinuations that President Trump may have betrayed the United States after a whistleblower
lodged an 'urgent' complaint about something Trump promised another world leader - the details of which the White House has refused
to share.
Here's the scandal; It appears that Trump, may have made promises to newly minted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky - very
likely involving an effort to convince Ukraine to reopen its investigation into Joe Biden and his son Hunter, after Biden strongarmed
Ukraine's prior government into firing its top prosecutor - something Trump and his attorney Rudy Giuliani have pursued for months
. There are also unsupported rumors that Trump threatened to withhold $250 million in aid to help Ukraine fight Russian-backed separatists.
And while the MSM and Congressional Democrats are starting to focus on the sitting US president having a political opponent investigated,
The New
York Times admits that nothing Trump did would have been illegal , as "while Mr. Trump may have discussed intelligence activities
with the foreign leader, he enjoys broad power as president to declassify intelligence secrets, order the intelligence community
to act and otherwise direct the conduct of foreign policy as he sees fit."
Moreover, here's why Trump and Giuliani are going to dig their heels in; last year Biden openly bragged about threatening to hurl
Ukraine into bankruptcy as Vice President if they didn't fire their top prosecutor , Viktor Shokin - who was leading a wide-ranging
corruption investigation into a natural gas firm whose board Hunter Biden sat on.
In his own words, with video cameras rolling,
Biden described
how he threatened Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko in March 2016 that the Obama administration would pull $1 billion in
U.S. loan guarantees , sending the former Soviet republic toward insolvency, if it didn't immediately fire Prosecutor General
Viktor Shokin. -
The Hill
"I said, ' You're not getting the billion .' I'm going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them
and said: ' I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money, '" bragged Biden, recalling the
conversation with Poroshenko.
" Well, son of a bitch, he got fired . And they put in place someone who was solid at the time," Biden said at the Council on
Foreign Relations event - while insisting that former president Obama was complicit in the threat.
In short, there's both smoke and fire here - and what's left of Biden's 2020 bid for president may be the largest casualty of
the entire whistleblower scandal.
And by the transitive properties of the Obama administration 'vetting' Trump by sending spies into his campaign, Trump can simply
say he was protecting America from someone who may have used his position of power to directly benefit his own family at the expense
of justice.
Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are acting as if they've found the holy grail of taking Trump down. On Thursday, the House
Intelligence Committee chaired by Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) interviewed inspector general Michael Atkinson, with whom the whistleblower
lodged their complaint - however despite three hours of testimony, he repeatedly declined to discuss the content of the complaint
.
Following the session, Schiff gave an angry speech - demanding that acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire share
the complaint , and calling the decision to withhold it "unprecedented."
"We cannot get an answer to the question about whether the White House is also involved in preventing this information from coming
to Congress," said Schiff, adding "We're determined to do everything we can to determine what this urgent concern is to make sure
that the national security is protected."
According to Schiff, someone "is trying to manipulate the system to keep information about an urgent matter from the Congress
There certainly are a lot of indications that it was someone at a higher pay grade than the director of national intelligence," according
to the
Washington Post .
On thursday, Trump denied doing anything improper - tweeting " Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand
that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. "
"Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on
such a potentially 'heavily populated' call. "
Giuliani, meanwhile, went on CNN with Chris Cuomo Thursday to defend his discussions with Ukraine about investigating alleged election
interference in the 2016 election to the benefit of Hillary Clinton conducted by Ukraine's previous government. According to Giuliani,
Biden's dealings in Ukraine were 'tangential' to the 2016 election interference question - in which a Ukrainian court ruled that
government officials meddled
for Hillary in 2016 by releasing details of Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort's 'Black Book' to Clinton campaign staffer Alexandra
Chalupa.
And so - what the MSM doesn't appear to understand is that President Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden over something
with legitimate underpinnings.
Which - of course, may lead to the Bidens'
adventures in China , which Giuliani referred to in his CNN interview. And just like his
Ukraine scandal
, it involves actions which may have helped his son Hunter - who was making hand over fist in both countries.
Journalist Peter Schweizer, the author of Clinton Cash and now
Secret Empires discovered
that in 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew together to China on Air Force Two - and two weeks later, Hunter's
Journalist Peter Schweizer, the author of Clinton Cash and now
Secret Empires discovered
that in 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew together to China on Air Force Two - and two weeks later, Hunter's
firm inked a private equity deal for $1 billion with a subsidiary of the Chinese government's Bank of China , which expanded to $1.5
billion
Meanwhile, speculation is rampant over what this hornet's nest means for all involved...
The latest intell hit on Trump tells me that the deep-state swamp rats are in a panic over the Ukrainian/Obama admin collusion
about to be outed in the IG report. They're also freaked out over Biden's shady Ukrainian deals with his kid.
Hunter's firm inked a private equity deal for $1 billion with a subsidiary of the Chinese government's Bank of China , which
expanded to $1.5 billion
Lets clarify this a bit. The 1 billion came from the RED CHINESE ARMY, lets call spade a spade here. And why? To buy into (invest
in ) DARPA related contractors. The RED CHINESE NAVY was so impressed with little sonny's performance (meaning daddy's help),
that they handed over an additions 500,000.
Without daddy's influence as VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and that FREE PLANE RIDE on Air Force TWO with daddy holding
sonny's little hand, little sonny never would have gotten past the ticket booth.
"House Democrats are also looking into whether Giuliani flew to Ukraine to 'encourage' them to investigate Hunter Biden and
his involvement with Burisma."
LOL looking into someone looking into a crime that may have been committed by a Democrat... they're some big brained individuals
these dummycrats.
Putting him in the hot seat would be to ask why he sponsored a coup and backed a neo Nazi party. When he starts to lie, put
up images of the party he back wearing inverted Das Reich arm bands and flying flags. Now that would be real journalism.
The Bidens show precisely that power corrupts. They both need to be investigated and then jailed. To the countries of the world
that depend on the USA for any kind of help, they had to deal with Joe 'what's in-it-for-me' Biden? What a disgrace for America.
I think every sitting President, Vice President, senator, and representative needs a yearly lie-detector test that asks but
one question: "did you do anything in your official duties that personally benefited you or your family?"
Didn't you ever wonder how so many senators and representatives end up multi-millionaires after a couple terms in office?
Why the fuuk do we have have to put up with this jackass. All the talk on cable, etc, is all ********. Trump is a fuuking crook,
and Barr is his bag man,. He has surrounded hinmself with toadies, cowards , incompetents and a trash family. Rise up, call your
representatives, March on DC get this crook out of office.
Call anyone you can think of, challenge them to overcome their cowardice, including members of congress, cabinet, your governor
Same could be said for the Democrats and all their Russian collusion lies and Beto wants to FORCE people to sell their weapons
to the government, right.......
" ...The complaint <against the president> involved communications with a foreign leader and a "promise" that Trump made, which
was so alarming that a U.S. intelligence official <who monitored Trumps call> who had worked at the White House went to the inspector
general of the intelligence community, two former U.S. officials said. ..."
What this tells:
1. If president Trump is monitored this way our spooks know the number of hairs in our crotches...
2. If we convicted on promises most in congress would be hung by the neck til dead for treason for not following the constitution...
Anybody that thinks that Trump, having had Roy Cohn as his mentor, and working in cut-throat NY real estate for years, AND
having dealt with political snakes for many years..would allow himself to be taped saying something on a call that he KNOWS the
Intel Community is listening in, is not paying attention.
This will backfire on the Dems and the media. Trump set them all up again..
My guess is the Dems will be hounding the IC for the complaint, will call Barr and the DNI in an investigation ran live on
CNN and MSNBC..that will show how corrupt Biden was. Everytime you hear Alexandra Chalupa's name come up, look for the MSM to
go ballistic..she is the tell in this one also. It cannot be allowed for the plebes to find out how Manafort was setup, Ukraine
assisted the DNC in the fake Russian election interference farce..hey, guess what, guess who is an ardent Ukraininan nationalist?
The head of Crowdstrike. Chalupa and Alparovich, the names that will bring down more dirty Dems than anyone in history.
For days we've been treated to MSM insinuations that President Trump may have betrayed the United States
Trump is a traitor, but he does not work for either Ukraine nor Russia but instead he works for Israel first and foremost!
He even admits it himself. Lol he doesn't even give a shite when Israel taps his phone :)
House Democrats are also looking into whether Giuliani flew to Ukraine to 'encourage' them to investigate Hunter Biden and
his involvement with Burisma.
This bunch of filthy swine should be looking up each others asses for answers. Actually the Ukrainians have been screaming
for over a year at the DOJ and FBI to take the evidence they have. But the rotten to the core Democrat socialist lefties wanted
to block it.
A retired Australian diplomat who served in Moscow dissects the emergence of the new Cold
War and its dire consequences.
I n 2014, we saw violent U.S.-supported regime change and civil war in Ukraine. In February,
after months of increasing tension from the anti-Russian protest movement's sitdown strike in
Kiev's Maidan Square, there was a murderous clash between protesters and Ukrainian police,
sparked off by hidden shooters (we now know that were expert Georgian snipers) , aiming at
police. The elected government collapsed and President Yanukevich fled to Russia, pursued by
murder squads.
The new Poroshenko government pledged harsh anti-Russian language laws. Rebels in two
Russophone regions in Eastern Ukraine took local control, and appealed for Russian military
help. In March, a referendum took place in Russian-speaking Crimea on leaving Ukraine, under
Russian military protection. Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, a request promptly
granted by the Russian Parliament and President. Crimea's border with Ukraine was secured
against saboteurs. Crimea is prospering under its pro-Russian government, with the economy
kick-started by Russian transport infrastructure investment.
In April, Poroshenko ordered full military attack on the separatist provinces of Donetsk and
Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine. A brutal civil war ensued, with aerial and artillery bombardment
bringing massive civilian death and destruction to the separatist region. There was major
refugee outflow into Russia and other parts of Ukraine. The shootdown of MH17 took place in
July 2014.
Poroshenko: Ordered military attack.
By August 2015, according to UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
estimates, 13,000 people had been killed and 30,000 wounded. 1.4 million Ukrainians had been
internally displaced, and 925,000 had fled to neighbouring countries, mostly Russia and to a
lesser extent Poland.
There is now a military stalemate, under the stalled Minsk peace process. But random fatal
clashes continue, with the Ukrainian Army mostly blamed by UN observers. The UN reported last
month that the ongoing war has affected 5.2 million people, leaving 3.5 million of them in need
of relief, including 500,000 children. Most Russians blame the West for fomenting Ukrainian
enmity towards Russia. This war brings back for older Russians horrible memories of the Nazi
invasion in 1941. The Russia-Ukraine border is only 550 kilometres from Moscow.
Flashpoint Syria
Russian forces joined the civil war in Syria in September 2015, at the request of the Syrian
Government, faltering under the attacks of Islamist extremist rebel forces reinforced by
foreign fighters and advanced weapons. With Russian air and ground support, the tide of war
turned. Palmyra and Aleppo were recaptured in 2016. An alleged Syrian Government chemical
attack at Khan Shaykhun in April 2017 resulted in a token U.S. missile attack on a Syrian
Government airbase: an early decision by President Trump.
NATO, Strategic Balance, Sanctions
An F-15C Eagle from the 493rd Fighter Squadron takes off from Royal Air Force Lakenheath,
England, March 6, 2014. The 48th Fighter Wing sent an additional six aircraft and more than 50
personnel to support NATO's air policing mission in Lithuania, at the request of U.S. allies in
the Baltics. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Emerson Nunez/Released)
Tensions have risen in the Baltic as NATO moves ground forces and battlefield missiles up to
the Baltic states' borders with Russia. Both sides' naval and air forces play dangerous
brinksmanship games in the Baltic. U.S. short-range, non-nuclear-armed anti-ballistic missiles
were stationed in Poland and Romania, allegedly against threat of Iranian attack. They are
easily convertible to nuclear-armed missiles aimed at nearby Russia.
Nuclear arms control talks have stalled. The INF intermediate nuclear forces treaty expired
in 2019, after both sides accused the other of cheating. In March 2018, Putin announced that
Russia has developed new types of intercontinental nuclear missiles using technologies that
render U.S. defence systems useless. The West has pretended to ignore this announcement, but we
can be sure Western defence ministries have noted it. Nuclear second-strike deterrence has
returned, though most people in the West have forgotten what this means. Russians know exactly
what it means.
Western economic sanctions against Russia continue to tighten after the 2014 events in
Ukraine. The U.S. is still trying to block the nearly completed Nordstream Baltic Sea
underwater gas pipeline from Russia to Germany. Sanctions are accelerating the division of the
world into two trade and payments systems: the old NATO-led world, and the rest of the world
led by China, with full Russian support and increasing interest from India, Japan, ROK and
ASEAN.
Return to Moscow
In 2013, my children gave me an Ipad. I began to spend several hours a day reading well
beyond traditional mainstream Western sources: British and American dissident sites, writers
like Craig Murray in UK and in the U.S. Stephen Cohen, and some Russian sites – rt.com,
Sputnik, TASS, and the official Foreign Ministry site mid.ru. in English.
In late 2015 I decided to visit Russia independently to write Return to Moscow , a
literary travel memoir. I planned to compare my impressions of the Soviet Union, where I had
lived and worked as an Australian diplomat in 1969-71, with Russia today. I knew there had been
huge changes. I wanted to experience 'Putin's Russia' for myself, to see how it felt to be
there as an anonymous visitor in the quiet winter season. I wanted to break out of the familiar
one-dimensional hostile political view of Russia that Western mainstream media offer: to take
my readers with me on a cultural pilgrimage through the tragedy and grandeur and inspiration of
Russian history. As with my earlier book on Spain 'Walking the Camino' , this was not
intended to be a political book, and yet somehow it became one.
I was still uncommitted on contemporary Russian politics before going to Russia in January
2016. Using the metaphor of a seesaw, I was still sitting somewhere around the middle.
My book was written in late 2015 – early 2016, expertly edited by UWA Publishing. It
was launched in March 2017. By this time my political opinions had moved decisively to the
Russian end of the seesaw, on the basis of what I had seen in Russia, and what I had read and
thought during the year.
I have been back again twice, in winter 2018 and 2019. My 2018 visit included Crimea, and I
happened to see a Navalny-led Sunday demonstration in Moscow. I thoroughly enjoyed all three
independent visits: in my opinion, they give my judgements on Russia some depth and
authenticity.
Russophobia Becomes Entrenched
Russia was a big talking point in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. As the initially
unlikely Republican candidate Donald Trump's chances improved, anti-Putin and anti-Russian
positions hardened in the outgoing Obama administration and in the Democratic Party
establishment which backed candidate Hillary Clinton.
Russia and Putin became caught up in the Democratic Party's increasingly obsessive rage and
hatred against the victorious Trump. Russophobia became entrenched in Washington and London
U.S. and UK political and strategic elites, especially in intelligence circles: think of
Pompeo, Brennan, Comey and Clapper. All sense of international protocol and diplomatic
propriety towards Russia and its President was abandoned, as this appalling Economist
cover from October 2016 shows.
My experience of undeclared political censorship in Australia since four months after
publication of 'Return to Moscow' supports the thesis that:
We are now in the thick of a ruthless but mostly covert Anglo-American alliance
information war against Russia. In this war, individuals who speak up publicly in the cause of
detente with Russia will be discouraged from public discourse.
In the Thick of Information War
When I spoke to you two years ago, I had no idea how far-reaching and ruthless this
information war is becoming. I knew that a false negative image of Russia was taking hold in
the West, even as Russia was becoming a more admirable and self-confident civil society, moving
forward towards greater democracy and higher living standards, while maintaining essential
national security. I did not then know why, or how.
I had just had time to add a few final paragraphs in my book about the possible consequences
for Russia-West relations of Trump's surprise election victory in November 2016. I was right to
be cautious, because since Trump's inauguration we have seen the step-by-step elimination of
any serious pro-detente voices in Washington, and the reassertion of control over this
haphazard president by the bipartisan imperial U.S. deep state, as personified from April 2018
by Secretary of State Pompeo and National Security Adviser Bolton. Bolton has now been thrown
from the sleigh as decoy for the wolves: under the smooth-talking Pompeo, the imperial policies
remain.
Truth, Trust and False Narratives
Let me now turn to some theory about political reality and perception, and how national
communities are persuaded to accept false narratives. Let me acknowledge my debt to the
fearless and brilliant Australian independent online journalist, Caitlin Johnstone.
Behavioural scientists have worked in the field of what used to be called propaganda since
WW1. England has always excelled in this field. Modern wars are won or lost not just on the
battlefield, but in people's minds. Propaganda, or as we now call it information warfare, is as
much about influencing people's beliefs within your own national community as it is
about trying to demoralise and subvert the enemy population.
The IT revolution of the past few years has exponentially magnified the effectiveness of
information warfare. Already in the 1940s, George Orwell understood how easily governments are
able to control and shape public perceptions of reality and to suppress dissent. His brilliant
books 1984 and Animal Farm are still instruction manuals in principles of
information warfare. Their plots tell of the creation by the state of false narratives, with
which to control their gullible populations.
The disillusioned Orwell wrote from his experience of real politics. As a volunteer fighter
in the Spanish Civil War, he saw how both Spanish sides used false news and propaganda
narratives to demonise the enemy. He also saw how the Nazi and Stalinist systems in Germany and
Russia used propaganda to support show trials and purges, the concentration camps and the
Gulag, anti-Semitism and the Holocaust, German master race and Stalinist class enemy
ideologies; and hows dissident thought was suppressed in these controlled societies. Orwell
tried to warn his readers: all this could happen here too, in our familiar old England. But
because the good guys won the war against fascism, his warnings were ignored.
We are now in Britain, U.S. and Australia actually living in an information warfare world
that has disturbing echoes of the world that Orwell wrote about. The essence of information
control is the effective state management of two elements, trust and fear , to
generate and uphold a particular view of truth. Truth, trust and fear : these are the
three key elements, now as 100 years ago in WWI Britain.
People who work or have worked close to government – in departments, politics, the
armed forces, or top universities – mostly accept whatever they understand at the time to
be 'the government view' of truth. Whether for reasons of organisational loyalty, career
prudence or intellectual inertia, it is usually this way around governments. It is why moral
issues like the Vietnam War and the U.S.-led 2003 invasion of Iraq were so distressing for
people of conscience working in or close to government and military jobs in Canberra. They were
expected to engage in 'doublethink' as Orwell had described it:
Even in Winston's nightmare world, there were still choices – to retreat into the
non-political world of the proles, or to think forbidden thoughts and read forbidden books.
These choices involved large risks and punishments. It was easier and safer for most people to
acquiesce in the fake news they were fed by state-controlled media.
'Trust, Truth and False Narratives'
Fairfax journalist Andrew Clark, in the Australian Financial Review , in an essay
optimistically titled "Not fake news: Why truth and trust are still in good shape in
Australia", (AFR Dec. 22, 2018), cited Professor William Davies thus:
"Most of the time, the edifice that we refer to as "truth" is really an investment of
trust in our structures of politics and public life' 'When trust sinks below a certain point,
many people come to view the entire spectacle of politics and public life as a sham."
Here is my main point: Effective information warfare requires the creation of enough
public trust to make the public believe that state-supported lies are true.
The key tools are repetition of messages, and diversification of trusted
voices. Once a critical mass is created of people believing a false narrative, the lie locks
in: its dissemination becomes self-sustaining.
" Power is being able to control what happens. Absolute power is being able
to control what people think about what happens. If you can control what happens,
you can have power until the public gets sick of your BS and tosses you out on your ass. If
you can control what people think about what happens, you can have power forever. As
long as you can control how people are interpreting circumstances and events, there's no
limit to the evils you can get away with."
The Internet has made propaganda campaigns that used to take weeks or months a matter of
hours or even minutes to accomplish. It is about getting in quickly, using large enough
clusters of trusted and diverse sources, in order to cement lies in place, to make the
lies seem true, to magnify them through social messaging: in other words, to create credible
false narratives that will quickly get into the public's bloodstream.
Over the past two years, I have seen this work many times: on issues like framing Russia for
the MH17 tragedy; with false allegations of Assad mounting poison gas attacks in Syria; with
false allegations of Russian agents using lethal Novichok to try to kill the Skripals in
Salisbury; and with the multiple lies of Russiagate.
It is the mind-numbing effect of constant repetition of disinformation by many eminent
people and agencies, in hitherto trusted channels like the BBC or ABC or liberal Anglophone
print media that gives the system its power to persuade the credulous. For if so many diverse
and reputable people repeatedly report such negative news and express such negative judgements
about Russia or China or Iran or Syria, surely they must be right?
We have become used to reading in our quality newspapers and hearing on the BBC and ABC and
SBS gross assaults on truth, calmly presented as accepted facts. There is no real public debate
on important facts in contention any more. There are no venues for dissent outside contrarian
social media sites.
Sometimes, false narratives inter-connect. Often a disinformation narrative in one area is
used to influence perceptions in other areas. For example, the false Skripals poisoning story
was launched by British intelligence in March 2018, just in time to frame Syrian President
Assad as the guilty party in a faked chemical weapons attack in Douma the following month.
The Skripals Gambit
The Skripals gambit was also a failed British attempt to blight the Russia –hosted
Football World Cup in June 2018. In the event, hundreds of thousands of Western sports fans
returned home with the warmest memories of Russian good sportsmanship and hospitality.
How do I know the British Skripals narrative is false? For a start, it is illogical,
incoherent, and constantly changes. Allegedly, two visiting Russian FSB agents in March 2018
sprayed or smeared Novichok, a deadly toxin instantly lethal in the most microscopic
quantities, on the Skripals' house front doorknob. There is no video footage of the Skripals at
their front door on the day. We are told they were found slumped on a park bench, and that is
maybe where they had been sprayed with nerve gas? Shortly afterwards, Britain's Head of Army
Nursing who happened to be passing by found them, and supervised their hospitalisation and
emergency treatment.
Allegedly, much of Salisbury was contaminated by Novichok, and one unfortunate woman
mysteriously died weeks later, yet the Skripals somehow did not die, as we are told. But where
are they now? We saw a healthy Yulia in a carefully scripted video interview released in May
2018, after an alleged 'one in a million' recovery. We were assured her father had recovered
too, but nobody has seen him at all. The Skripals have simply disappeared from sight since 16
months ago. Are they now alive or dead? Are they in voluntary or involuntary British
custody?
A month after the poisoning, the UK Government sent biological samples from the Skripals to
the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons , for testing. The OPCW sent the
samples to a trusted OPCW laboratory in Spiez, Switzerland.
Lavrov Spiez BZ claims, April 2018
A few days later, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dramatically announced in Moscow
that the Spiez lab had found in the samples a temporary-effect nerve agent BZ, used by U.S. and
UK but not by Russia, that would have disabled the Skripals for a few days without killing
them. He also revealed the Spiez lab had found that the Skripal samples had been twice tampered
with while still in UK custody: first soon after the poisoning, and again shortly before
passing them to the OPCW. He said the Spiez lab had found a high concentration of Novichok,
which he called A- 234, in its original form. This was extremely suspicious as A-234 has high
volatility and could not have retained its purity over a two weeks period. The dosage the Spiez
lab found in the samples would have surely killed the Skripals. The OPCW under British pressure
rejected Lavrov's claim, and suppressed the Spiez lab report.
Let's look finally at the alleged assassins.
'Boshirov and Petrov'
These two FSB operatives who visited Salisbury under the false identities of 'Boshirov' and
'Petrov' did not look or behave like credible assassins. It is more likely that they were sent
to negotiate with Sergey Skripal about his rumoured interest in returning to Russia. They
needed to apply for UK visas a month in advance of travel: ample time for the British agencies
to identify them as FSB operatives, and to construct a false attempted assassination narrative
around their visit. This false narrative repeatedly trips over its own lies and contradictions.
British social media are full of alternative theories and rebuttals. Russians find the whole
British Government Skripal narrative laughable. They have invented comedy skits and video games
based on it. Yet it had major impact on Russia-West relations.
The Douma False Narrative
I turn now to the claimed Assad chemical weapons attack in Douma in April 2018.This falsely
alleged attack triggered a major NATO air attack on Syrian targets, ordered by Trump. We came
close to WWIII in these dangerous days. Thanks to the restraint of the then Secretary of
Defence James Mattis and his Russian counterparts, the risk was contained.
The allegation that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad had used outlawed chemical weapons
against his own people was based solely on the evidence of faked video images of child victims,
made by the discredited White Helmets, a UK-sponsored rebel-linked 'humanitarian' propaganda
organisation with much blood on its hands. Founded in 2013 by a British private security
specialist of intelligence background, James Le Mesurier, the White Helmets specialised in
making fake videos of alleged Assad regime war crimes against Syrian civilians. It is by now a
thoroughly discredited organisation that was prepared to kill its prisoners and then film their
bodies as alleged victims of government chemical attacks.
White Helmets
As the town of Douma was about to fall to advancing Syrian Government forces, the White
Helmets filled a room with stacked corpses of murdered prisoners, and photographed them as
alleged victims of aerial gas attack. They also made a video alleging child victims of this
attack being hosed down by White Helmets. A video of a child named Hassan Diab went viral all
over the Western world.
Hassan Diab later testified publicly in The Hague that he had been dragged terrified from
his family by force, smeared with some sort of grease, and hosed down with water as part of a
fake video. He went from hero to zero overnight, as Western governments and media rejected his
testimony as Russian and Syrian propaganda.
In a late development, there is proof that the OPCW suppressed its own engineers' report
from Douma that the alleged poison gas cylinders could not have possibly been dropped from the
air through the roof of the house where one was found, resting on a bed under a convenient hole
in the roof.
I could go on discussing the detail of such false narratives all day. No matter how often
they are exposed by critics, our politicians and mainstream media go on referencing them as if
they are true. Once people have come to believe false narratives, it is hard to refute
them.
So it is with the false narrative that Russian internet interference enabled Trump to win
the 2016 U.S. presidential elections: a thesis for which no evidence was found by [Special
Counsel Robert] Mueller, yet continues to be cited by many U.S. liberal Democratic media as if
it were true. So, even, with MH17.
Managing Mass Opinion
This mounting climate of Western Russophobia is not accidental: it is strategically
directed, and it is nourished with regular maintenance doses of fresh lies. Each round of lies
provides a credible platform for the next round somewhere else. The common thread is a claimed
malign Russian origin for whatever goes wrong.
So where is all this disinformation originating? Information technology firms in Washington
and London that are closely networked into government elites, often through attending the same
establishment schools or colleges like Eton and Yale, have closely studied and tested the
science of influencing crowd opinions through mainstream media and online. They know, in a way
that Orwell or Goebbels could hardly have dreamt, how to put out and repeat desired media
messages. They know what sizes of 'internet attraction nodes' need to be established online, in
order to create diverse critical masses of credible Russophobic messaging, which then attracts
enough credulous and loyal followers to become self-propagating.
Firms like the SCL Group (formerly Strategic Communication Laboratories) and the now defunct
Cambridge Analytica pioneered such work in the UK. There are many similar firms in Washington,
all in the business of monitoring, generating and managing mass opinion. It is big business,
and it works closely with the national security state.
Starting in November 2018, an enterprising group of unknown hackers in the UK , who go by
the name 'Anonymous', opened a remarkable window into this secret world. Over a few weeks, they
hacked and dumped online a huge volume of original documents issued by and detailing the
activities of the Institute for Statecraft (IfS) and the Integrity initiative
(II). Here is the first page of one of their dumps, exposing propaganda against Jeremy
Corbyn.
We know from this material that the IfS and II are two secret British disinformation
networks operating at arms' length from but funded by the UK security services and broader UK
government establishment. They bring together high-ranking military and intelligence personnel,
often nominally retired, journalists and academics, to produce and disseminate propaganda that
serves the agendas of the UK and its allies.
Stung by these massive leaks, Chris Donnelly, a key figure in IfS and II and a former
British Army intelligence officer, made a now famous seven-minute YouTube video in December
2018, artfully filmed in a London kitchen, defending their work.
He argued – quite unconvincingly in my opinion – that IfS and II are simply
defending Western societies against disinformation and malign influence, primarily from Russia.
He boasted how they have set up in numerous targeted European countries, claimed to be under
attack from Russian disinformation, what he called 'clusters of influence' , to
'educate' public opinion and decision-makers in pro-NATO and anti-Russian directions.
Donnelly spoke frankly on how the West is already at war with Russia, a 'new kind of
warfare', in which he said 'everything becomes a weapon'. He said that 'disinformation is the
issue which unites all the other weapons in this conflict and gives them a third
dimension'.
He said the West has to fight back, if it is to defend itself and to prevail.
We can confirm from the Anonymous leaked files the names of many people in Europe being
recruited into these clusters of influence. They tend to be significant people in journalism,
publishing, universities and foreign policy think-tanks: opinion-shapers. The leaked documents
suggest how ideologically suitable candidates are identified: approached for initial screening
interviews; and, if invited to join a cluster of influence, sworn to secrecy.
Remarkably, neither the Anonymous disclosures nor the Donnelly response have ever been
reported in Australian media. Even in Britain – where evidence that the Integrity
Initiative was mounting a campaign against [Labour leader] Jeremy Corbyn provoked brief media
interest. The story quickly disappeared from mainstream media and the BBC. A British
under-foreign secretary admitted in Parliamentary Estimates that the UK Foreign Office
subsidises the Institute of Statecraft to the tune of nearly 3 million pounds per year. It also
gives various other kinds of non-monetary assistance, e.g. providing personnel and office
support in Britain's overseas embassies.
This is not about traditional spying or seeking agents of influence close to governments. It
is about generating mass disinformation, in order to create mass climates of belief.
In my opinion, such British and American disinformation efforts, using undeclared clusters
of influence, through Five Eyes intelligence-sharing, and possibly with the help of British and
American diplomatic missions, may have been in operation in Australia for many years.
Such networks may have been used against me since around mid-2017, to limit the commercial
outreach of my book and the impact of its dangerous ideas on the need for East-West detente;
and efficiently to suppress my voice in Australian public discourse about Russia and the West.
Do I have evidence for this? Yes.
It is not coincidence that the Melbourne Writers Festival in August 2017 somehow lost all my
sign-and-sell books from my sold-out scheduled speaking event; that a major debate with
[Australian writer and foreign policy analyst] Bobo Lo at the Wheeler Centre in Melbourne was
cancelled by his Australian sponsor, the Lowy institute, two weeks before the advertised date;
that my last invitation to any writers festival was 15 months ago, in May 2018; that Return
to Moscow was not shortlisted for any Australian book prize, though I entered it in all of
them ; that since my book's early promotion ended around August 2017, I have not been invited
to join any ABC discussion panels, or to give any talks on Russia in any universities or
institutes, apart from the admirable Australian Institute of International Affairs and the
ISAA.
My articles and shorter opinion commentaries on Russia and the West have not been published
in mainstream media or in reputable online journals like Eureka Street, The Conversation,
Inside Story or Australian Book Review . Despite being an ANU Emeritus Fellow, I
have not been invited to give a public talk or join any panel in ANU (Australian National
University) or any Canberra think tank. In early 2018, I was invited to give a private briefing
to a group of senior students travelling on an immersion course to Russia. I was not invited
back in 2019, after high-level private advice within ANU that I was regarded as too
pro-Putin.
In all these ways – none overt or acknowledged – my voice as an open-minded
writer and speaker on Russia-West relations seems to have been quietly but effectively
suppressed in Australia. I would like to be proved wrong on this, but the evidence is
there.
This may be about "velvet-glove deterrence" of my Russia-sympathetic voice and pen, in order
to discourage others, especially those working in or close to government. Nobody is going to
put me in jail, unless I am stupid enough to violate Australia's now strict foreign influence
laws. This deterrence is about generating fear of consequences for people still in their
careers, paying their mortgages, putting kids through school. Nobody wants to miss their next
promotion.
There are other indications that Australian national security elite opinion has been
indoctrinated prudently to fear and avoid any kind of public discussion of positive engagement
with Russia (or indeed, with China).
There are only two kinds of news about Russia now permitted in our mainstream media,
including the ABC and SBS: negative news and comment, or silence. Unless a story can be given
an anti-Russian sting, it will not be carried at all. Important stories are simply spiked, like
last week's Eastern Economic Forum in Vladivistok, chaired by President Putin and attended by
Prime Ministers Abe, Mahathir and Modi, among 8500 participants from 65 countries.
The ABC idea of a balanced panel to discuss any Russian political topic was exemplified
in an ABC Sunday Extra Roundtable panel chaired by Eleanor Hall on July, 22 2018, soon after
the Trump-Putin Summit in Helsinki. The panel – a former ONA Russia analyst, a professor
of Soviet and Russian History at Melbourne University, and a Russian émigré
dissident journalist introduced as the 'Washington correspondent for Echo of Moscow radio'
spent most of their time sneering at Putin and Trump. There were no other views.
A powerful anti-Russian news narrative is now firmly in place in Australia, on every topic
in contention: Ukraine, MH17, Crimea, Syria, the Skripals, Navalny and public protest in
Russia. There is ill-informed criticism of Russia, or silence, on the crucial issues of arms
control and Russia-China strategic and economic relations as they affect Australia's national
security or economy. There is no analysis of the negative impact on Australia of economic
sanctions against Russia. There is almost no discussion of how improved relations with China
and Russia might contribute to Australia's national security and economic welfare, as American
influence in the world and our region declines, and as American reliability as an ally comes
more into question. Silence on inconvenient truths is an important part of the disinformation
tool kit.
I see two overall conflicting narratives – the prevailing Anglo-American false
narrative; and valiant efforts by small groups of dissenters, drawing on sources outside the
Anglo-American official narrative, to present another narrative much closer to truth. And this
is how most Russians now see it too.
The Trump-Putin summit in Helsinki in July 2018 was damaged by the Skripal and Syria
fabrications. Trump left that summit friendless, frightened and humiliated. He soon surrendered
to the power of the U.S. imperial state as then represented by [Mike] Pompeo and [John] Bolton,
who had both been appointed as Secretary of State and National Security Adviser in April 2018
and who really got into their stride after the Helsinki Summit. Pompeo now smoothly dominates
Trump's foreign policy.
Self-Inflicted Wounds
U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (Gage Skidmore)
Finally, let me review the American political casualties over the past two years –
self-inflicted wounds – arising from this secret information war against Russia. Let me
list them without prejudging guilt or innocence. Slide 20 – Self-inflicted wounds:
casualties of anti-Russian information warfare.
Trump's first National Security Adviser, the highly decorated Michael Flynn lost his job
after only three weeks, and soon went to jail. His successor H R McMaster lasted 13 months
until replaced by John Bolton. Trump's first Secretary of State Rex Tillerson lasted just 14
months until his replacement by Trump's appointed CIA chief (in January 2017) Mike Pompeo.
Trump's chief strategist Steve Bannon lasted only seven months. Trump's former campaign
chairman Paul Manafort is now in jail.
Defence Secretary James Mattis lasted nearly two years as Secretary of Defence, and was an
invaluable source of strategic stability. He resigned in December 2018. The highly capable
Ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman lasted just two years: he is resigning next month. John Kelly
lasted 18 months as White House Chief of Staff. Less senior figures like George Papadopoulos
and Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen both served jail time. The pattern I see here is that
people who may have been trying responsibly as senior U.S. officials to advance Trump's initial
wish to explore possibilities for detente with Russia – policies that he had advocated as
a candidate – were progressively purged, one after another . The anti-Russian U.S.
bipartisan imperial state is now firmly back in control. Trump is safely contained as far as
Russia is concerned .
Russians do not believe that any serious detente or arms control negotiations can get under
way while cold warriors like Pompeo continue effectively to control Trump. There have been
other casualties over the past two years of tightening American Russophobia. Julian Assange and
Chelsea Manning come to mind. The naive Maria Butina is a pathetic victim of American judicial
rigidity and deep state vindictiveness.
False anti-Russian Government narratives emanating from London and Washington may be laughed
at in Moscow , but they are unquestioningly accepted in Canberra. We are the most gullible of
audiences. There is no critical review. Important contrary factual information and analysis
from and about Russia just does not reach Australian news reporting and commentary, nor –
I fear – Australian intelligence assessment. We are prisoners of the false narratives fed
to us by our senior Five Eyes partners U.S. and UK.
To conclude: Some people may find what I am saying today difficult to accept. I understand
this. I now work off open-source information about Russia with which many people here are
unfamiliar, because they prefer not to read the diverse online information sources that I
choose to read. The seesaw has tilted for me: I have clearly moved a long way from mainstream
Western perceptions on Russia-West relations.
Under Trump and Pompeo, as the Syria and Iran crises show, the present risk of global
nuclear war by accident or incompetent Western decision-making is as high as it ever was in the
Cold War. The West needs to learn again how to dialogue usefully and in mutually respectful
ways with Russia and China. This expert knowledge is dying with our older and wiser former
public servants and ex-military chiefs.
These remarks were delivered by Tony Kevin at the Independent Scholars Association of
Australia in Canberra, Australia on Wednesday.
Watch Tony Kevin interviewed Friday night on CN Live!
Tony Kevin is a retired Australian diplomat who was posted to Moscow from 1969 to 1971,
and was later Australia's ambassador to Poland and Cambodia. His latest book is Return to
Moscow, published by UWA Publishing.
Bruce , September 17, 2019 at 08:58
Excellent article. It's very interesting to see how the state and its media lackey set the
narrative.
Most of this comment relates to the Skripals but also applies to other matters (the
Skripals writing was some of Craig Murray's finest work in my opinion). One of the hallmarks
of a hoax is a constantly evolving storyline. I think governments have learned from past
"mistakes" with their hoaxes/deception where they've given a description of events and then
scientists/engineers/chemists etc have come in and criticised their version of events with
details and scientific arguments. Nowadays, governments are very reluctant to commit to a
version of events, and instead rely on the media (their propaganda assets) to provide a
scattergun set of information to muddy the waters and thoroughly confuse the population. The
government is then insulated from some of the more bizarre allegations (the headlines of
which are absorbed nonetheless), and can blame it on the media (who would use an anonymous
government source naturally). Together with classifying just about everything on national
security grounds, they can stonewall for as long as they want.
The British are masters of propaganda. They maintained a global empire for a very long
time, and the prevailing view (in the west at least) was probably one of tea-drinking cricket
playing colonials/gentlemen. But you don't maintain an empire without being absolutely
ruthless and brutal. They've been doing this for a very long time.
When we hear something from the BBC or ABC, we should think "State Media".
That's probably why its got a nice folksy nickname of "aunty" .build up the trust.
Society is suffering the extreme paradox; there is the potential for everyone to have a
voice, but the last vestiges of free speech have been whittled away. Fake news is universal,
assisted by the fake "left". It is impossible to get published any challenge to even the most
outlandish versions of identity politics. As the experience of Tony Kevin exemplifies, all
avenues for dissent against hegemonic orthodoxies are closed off.
Disinformation is now an essential weapon in waging hot and cold wars. Cold War historians
are well informed on false flags, "black ops", and other organised dirty tactics. I do not
know what happened to the Skripals, and while it is legitimate to bear in mind KGB
assassinations, despite the enormous resources at its disposal, the English security state
has been unable to construct a credible case. Surely scepticism is provoked by the leading
role being played by the notorious Bellingcat outfit.
Zenobia van Dongen , September 17, 2019 at 00:29
Here is part of an eyewitness account:
"After the Orange Revolution which began in Kiev, the country was divided literally into two
parts -- the supporters of integration with Russia and the supporters of an independent
Ukraine. For almost 100 years belonging to the Soviet Union, the propaganda about the
assistance and care from our "big brother" Russia, in Ukraine as a whole and the Donbass in
particular has borne fruit. At the end of February 2014, some cities of the Southeast part
were boiling with mass social and political protest against the new Ukrainian government in
defense of the status of the Russian language, voicing separatist and pro-Russian slogans.
The division took place in our city of Sloviansk too. Some people stood for separation from
Ukraine, while Ukrainian patriots stood for the unity of our country.
On April 12, 2014 our city of Sloviansk in the Donetsk region was seized by Russian
mercenaries and local volunteers. From that moment onward, armed assaults on state
institutions began. The city police department, the Sloviansk City Hall, the building of the
Ukraine Security Service was occupied. Armed militants seized state institutions and
confiscated private property. They threatened and beat people, and those who refused to obey
were taken away to an unknown destination and people started disappearing. The persecution
and abduction of patriotic citizens began."
Michael McNulty , September 16, 2019 at 11:36
Watching Vietnam news coverage as a kid in the '60s I noticed the planes carpet-bombing
South East Asia were American, not Russian. And as I only watched the footage and never
listened to the commentary (I was waiting for the kids programs that followed) the BS they
came out with to explain it all never reached me. I saw with my own eyes what the US really
was and is, and always believed growing up they were the belligerent side not Russia. Once
the USSR fell it was clear there were no longer any constraints on US excesses.
dean 1000 , September 15, 2019 at 18:17
Doublethink, not to mention doublespeak, is so apt to describe what is happening. If
Orwell was writing today it would have to be classified as non-fiction.
Free speech is impossible unless every election district has a radio/TV station where
candidates, constituents, and others can debate, discuss and speak to the issues without
bending a knee to large campaign contributors or the controllers of corporate or government
media. It may start with low-power pirate radio/TV broadcasts. No, the pirate speakers will
not have to climb a cell tower to broadcast an opinion to the neighborhood or precinct.
If genuine free speech is going to exist it will start as something unauthorized and
unlawful. If it sticks to the facts it will quickly prove its value.
Excellent article. The only exhibit missing was reference to Bill Browder's lies.
Browder's rubbish has been exposed by intrepid journalists and documentary makers such as
Andrei Nekrasov, Sasha Krainer and Lucy Komisar but to read or listen to our media, you'd
think BB was some sort of human rights hero. That's because BB's fairy tale fits nicely into
the MSM's hatred of Putin and Russia. Debunk Browder and a major pillar of anti-Russia
prejudice collapses. Therefore, Browder will never face any serious questions by the MSM.
John A , September 16, 2019 at 09:18
judges of the European Court of Human Rights published a judgement a fortnight ago which
utterly exploded the version of events promulgated by Western governments and media in the
case of the late Mr Magnitskiy. Yet I can find no truthful report of the judgement in the
mainstream media at all. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/09/the-magnitskiy-myth-exploded/
MSM propaganda by omission. Anything that doesn't fit the government narrative gets zero
publicity.
I have stopped following australian mainstream media including the darlings of the 'left'
ABC/SBS over a decade ago, completely. My disgust with their 'coverage' of the 2008 GFC was
more than enough. Since 2008-9 things have deteriorated drastically into conspiracy theory
propaganda by omission la-la land *it seems*, given I don't tune in at all.
The author has a well supported view. I find it a little naive in him thinking that the
MSM has that much power over shaping public opinion in australia.
People who want to be informed do so. The half intelligent conformists on hamster wheel of
lifetime mortgage debt have 'careers' to hold onto, so parroting the group think or living in
ignorance is much easier. The massive portion of australian racists, inbred bogans and idiots
that make up the large LNP, One Nation etc. voting block are completely beyond salvation or
ability to process, and critically evaluate any information. The smarter ones drool on about
the 'UN Agenda 21' conspiracy at best. Utterly hopeless.
I don't expect things to change as the australian economy is slowly hollowed out by the
rich, and the education system (that has always been about conforming, wearing school uniform
and regurgitating what the teacher/lecturer says at best) is gutted completely. Welcome to
australistan.
Fran Macadam , September 14, 2019 at 19:21
Note that the prohibition against false propaganda to indoctrinate the domestic population
by the American government was lifted by President Obama at the tail end of his
administration. The Executive Order legalizes all the deceptive behavior Tony itemizes in his
article.
Josep , September 17, 2019 at 04:10
I thought it was Reagan who did that by abolishing the Fairness Doctrine in 1987. At least
in terms of television and radio (?) broadcasts.
Thank you Tony for your thoughtful talk (and interview on CN Live! too).
What's encouraging is this cohort of what might be called 'millennial journalists' coming
through willing to do 'shoe-leather' journalism and stand up to smears and flack for
revealing uncomfortable facts and truth. They're the online 5th estate holding the 4th to
account (to steal Ray McGovern's apt view), and they're congealing against the onslaught.
Some include Max Blumenthal and Rania Kahlek (both now being pilloried by MSM and others
for visiting Syrian government held areas and reporting that life isn't hellish as MSM would
have everyone believe heaven forbid); Vanessa Bealey who's exposed a lot of White Helmet
horrors and false-flag attacks in Syria (and being attacked by all and sundry for exposing
the White Helmets in particular); Abby Martin whose Empire Files are excellent and always
edifying; Dan Cohen who has written the best expose of the actors behind the Hong Kong
rioting and co-authored the best expose of the background of Guaido et al.; Whitney Webb of
Mint Press whose series on Epstein is overwhelming and likely a ticking timebomb; Caitlin
Johnstone of course; and Aaron 'Buzzsaw' Mate who made his first mark with a wonderful
takedown interview of Russiaphobe MI6 shill Luke Harding. Others too of course, with most
appearing or having written pieces on CN. John Pilger, Robert Fisk, Greg Palast, et al. won't
drop off their twigs disappointed.
This, along with the fact that MSM -- that cowed and compromised fourth estate --
increasingly is held in such laughable contempt by most people under about 50 yr, is highly
encouraging indeed. Truth is the new black.
nwwoods , September 15, 2019 at 11:49
The Blogmire is an excellent resource for detailed analysis of the Skripal hoax. The
author happens to be a long-time resident of Salisbury, and is intimately familiar with the
topography, public services, etc., and a very thorough investigator.
John Wright , September 14, 2019 at 18:35
I'm not surprised that Mr. Kevin is being isolated and shunned by the Australian
establishment. Truth and truth tellers are always the first casualties of war. I do hope that
his experience will encourage him to increase his resistance to the corrosiveness of
mendacious propaganda and those who promulgate it.
Truth is the single best weapon when fighting for a peaceful future.
If Australia is to flourish in the 21st century, it really needs to understand Russia and
China, how they relate to each other, and how this key alliance will interface with the rest
of the world. Australia and Australians simply cannot afford to get sucked down further by
facilitating the machinations of the collapsing Anglo-American Empire. They have served the
empire ably and faithfully, but now need to take a cold hard look at reality and realign
their long-term interests with the coming global power shift. If not, they could literally
find themselves in the middle of an unwinnable and devastating war.
* * *
The first Anglo-American Russian cold war began with the Russian revolution and was only
briefly suspended when the West needed the Soviet people to throw themselves in front of the
Nazi blitzkrieg in order to save Western Europe. Following their catastrophically costly
contribution to the victory on the Continent, the Russians were greeted with an American
nuclear salute on their eastern periphery, signalling their return to the diplomatic and
economic deep freeze.
While the Anglo-American Empire solidified and extended its hold on the globe, the
enlarged but war-ravaged and isolated Soviet Union hunkered down and survived on scraps and
sheer will until its collapse in 1989. Declaring the cold war over, and with promises to help
their new Russian friends build a prosperous future, the duplicitous West then ransacked
their neighbors resources and sold them into debt peonage. The Russians cried foul, the West
shrugged and Putin pushed back. Unable to declaw the bear, the west closed the cage door
again and the second cold war commenced.
* * *
The first cold war was essentially an offensive war disguised as a defensive war. It
enabled the Anglo-American Empire to leverage its post-war advantage and establish near total
dominance around the globe through naked violence and monetary hegemony.
Today, with its dominance rapidly slipping away, the Anglo-American Empire is waging a
truly defensive cold war. On the home front, they fight to convince their subjects of their
eternal exceptionalism with ever more absurd and vile propaganda denigrating their
adversaries . Abroad, they disrupt and defraud in a desperate attempt to delay the demise of
the PetroDollar ponzi.
The Russians and the Chinese, having both been brutally burned by the Western elites, will
not be fooled into abandoning their natural geographic partnership. They are no longer
content to sit quietly at the kids' table taking notes. While they may not demand to sit at
the head of the table, it is clear that they will insist on a round table, and one that is
large enough to include their growing list of friends.
If the Americans don't smash the table, it could be the first of many peaceful pot
lucks.
John Read , September 15, 2019 at 02:11
Well said. Great comments. Thanks to Tony Kevin.
Mia , September 14, 2019 at 18:33
Thank you Tony for continuing to shine light on the pathetic propaganda information bubble
Australians have been immersed in .. you demonstrate great courage and you are not alone
??
Peter Loeb , September 14, 2019 at 12:58
WITH THANKS TO TONY KEVIN
An excellent article.
There is a lack of comments from some of the common writers upon whose views I often
rely.
Personally, I often avoid the very individual responses from websites as I have no way
of checking out previous ideas of theirs. Who funds them? With which organizations are
they
affiliated? And so forth and so on.
Peter Loeb, Boston, Massachusetts
Peter Sapo , September 14, 2019 at 10:24
As a fellow Australian, everything Tony Kevin said makes perfect sense. Our mainstream
media landscape is designed to distribute propaganda to folk accross the political spectrum.
Have you noticed that the ABC regurgitates stories from the BBC? The BBC has a long history
(at least since WW2) of supporting government propaganda initiatives. Based on this fact, it
is hard to see how ABC and SBS don't do the same when called upon by their minders.
Francis Lee , September 14, 2019 at 09:48
I just wonder where the Anglo-Zionist empire thinks it is going. It should be obvious that
any NATO war against Russia involving a nuclear exchange is unwinnable. It seems equally
likely the even a conventional war will not necessarily bring the result expected by the
assorted 'experts' – nincompoops living in their own fantasy world. The idea that the
US can fight a war without the US homeland becoming very much involved basically ended when
Putin announced the creation of Russia's set of advanced hypersonic missile system. But this
was apparently ignored by the 'defence' establishment. It was not true, it could not possibly
be true, or so we were told.
Moreover the cost of such wars involving hundreds of thousands of troops and military
hardware are massively expensive and would occasion a massive resistance from the populations
affected. It was the wests wars in Korea, and Indo-China that bankrupted the US and led to
the US$ being removed from the gold standard. The American military is rapidly consuming the
American economy, or at least what is left of it. From a realist foreign policy perspective
this is simply madness. Great powers end wars, they don't start them. Great powers are
creditor nations, not debtor nations. Such is the realist foreign policy view. But foreign
policy realists are few and far between in the Washington Beltway and MIC/NSA Pentagon and
US/UK/AUSTRALIAN MSM.
Thus the neo-hubris of the English speaking world is such that if it is followed to its
logical conclusion then total annihilation would be the logical outcome. A sad example of not
very bright people who face no domestic opposition, believing in their own bullshit:
"American elites proved themselves to be master manipulators of propaganda constructs But
the real danger from such manipulations arises not when those manipulations are done out of
knowledge of reality, which is distorted for propaganda purposes, but when those who
manipulation begin to sincerely believe in their own falsifications and when they buy into
their own narrative. They stop being manipulators and they become believers in a narrative.
They become manipulated themselves." (Losing Military Supremacy – Andrei,
Martyanov)
Or maybe just the whole thing is a bluff. Those policy elites maybe just want to loot the
US Treasury for more cash to be put their way.
John Wright , September 15, 2019 at 19:15
The self-serving Israeli Zionists know that the American cow is running dry and their days
of freely milking it are coming to an end. They have an historic relationship with Russia
and, leveraging their nuclear arsenal, know they can make a deal with the emerging
China-Russia-centric global paradigm to extort enough protection to maintain their armed
enclave for the foreseeable future. Their no so hidden alliance with the equally sociopathic
Saudis will become even more obvious for all to see.
Israel, like China and Russia, knows how to play a long game. Thus, Israel will
consolidate its land grab with the just announced expansion into the Jordan Valley and
quietly continue as much ethnic cleansing as possible while the rest of the world is
preoccupied with the incipient global power shift (True victims of history, the Palestinians
have no real friends). While they will bemoan the loss of their muscular American stooge,
Israel enjoyed a very lucrative 70 year run and will part with a pile of useful and deadly
toys. They're also fully aware that no one else will ever let them take advantage to the
degree they've been able to with the U.S.A. (Unlimited Stupidity of Arrogance?)
Eventually, the social schizophrenia that is the state of Israel will catch up with them
and they will implode. Let's hope that breakdown doesn't involve the use of their nuclear
arsenal.
Yes, the U.S. Treasury will continue to be looted until the last teller turns the lights
out or the electricity is shut off, whichever comes first.
The Western transnational financial elites will accept their losses, regroup and make
deals with the new bosses where they can; but their days of running the game unopposed are
over.
Today is a good day to learn Mandarin (or Russian, if you prefer to live in Europe).
Bill , September 16, 2019 at 03:36
Very well said and I agree with a lot of what you say.
Tiu , September 14, 2019 at 06:01
Won't be too long before writing articles like this will get you busted for "hate-speech"
(e.g. anything that is contrary to the official version prescribed by the "democratically
elected" government) https://www.zerohedge.com/political/uk-tony-blair-think-tank-proposes-end-free-speech
Personally I always encourage people to read George Orwell, especially 1984. We're there, and
have been for a long time.
geeyp , September 14, 2019 at 01:15
Tony Kevin – Nice rundown of what ails society. You have a fine writing style that
gets the point across to the reader. Kudos and cheers.
Michael , September 13, 2019 at 22:34
The 'modernization' of the Smith Mundt Act in 2013 "to authorize the domestic
dissemination of information and material [PROPAGANDA] about the United States intended
primarily for foreign audiences" was a major nail in the Democracy coffin, consolidating the
blatant ruling of the US Police State by our 17 Intelligence Agencies (our betters). The
Telecommunications Act of 1996 lead to ownership of (>80%) of our media (the MSM by a
handful of owners, all disseminating the same narratives from above (CIA, State Department,
FBI etc) and squelching any dissenting views, particularly related to foreign policies.
Tony's article sadly just confirms the depth and breadth of our Global Stasi, with improved,
innovative and (mostly) subtle surveillance, and the controlling constant interference with
alternate viewpoints and discussions, the real basis for free societies. It is bad enough to
be ruled by neoliberal psychopathic hyenas and jackals, soon we won't be able to even bitch
about what they are doing.
Tom Kath , September 13, 2019 at 21:42
The most impressive article I have read in a very long time. I congratulate and thank
Tony.
I have myself recently addressed the issue of whether it is a virtue to have an "open mind".
– The ability to be converted or have your mind changed, or is it the ability to change
your own mind ?
Tony Kevin clearly illustrates the difference.
Litchfield , September 13, 2019 at 16:11
Great article.
Please keep writing.
Do start a website, a la Craig Murray.
There are people who are proactively looking for alternative viewpoints and informed
analysis.
How about starting a website and publishing some excerpts of your book there?
Or, sell chapters separately by download from your website?
You could also have a discussion blog/forum there.
John Zimmermann , September 13, 2019 at 16:02
Excellent essay. Thanks Mr. Kevin.
rosemerry , September 13, 2019 at 15:37
At least Tony Kevin was an Australian ambassador, not like Mike Morrell and the chosen
russop?obes the USA assumes are needed as diplomats!! Now he is treated as Stephen Cohen is-
a true expert called "controversial" as he dares to go by real facts and evidence, not
prejudice.
If instead of enemies, the West could consider getting to understand those they are wary
of, and give them a chance to explain their point of view and actually listen and reflect on
it.
(Dmitri Peskov valiantly explained the Russian official response as soon as the "Skripal
poisoning" story broke, but it was fully ignored by UK/US media, while all of Theresa May's
fanciful imaginings were respectfully relayed to the public).
geeyp , September 14, 2019 at 23:26
As you usually are with your comments, you are spot on again, rosemerry.
Martin - Swedish citizen , September 13, 2019 at 14:46
Excellent article!
I find the mechanics of how the propaganda is spread and the illusion upheld the most
important part of this article, since this knowledge is required to counter it.
When (not if) the fraud becomes more common knowledge, our societies are likely to
tumble.
Pablo Diablo , September 13, 2019 at 14:45
Whoever controls the media, controls the dialogue.
Whoever controls the dialogue, controls the agenda.
' The present risk of global nuclear war is as high as it ever was in the Cold War.' And
possibly higher. The Cold War, though dangerous, was the peace. The world has experienced
periods of peace (or relative peace) throughout history. The Thirty Years Peace between the
two Peloponnesian Wars, Pax Romana, Europe in the 19th century after the Congress of Vienna,
to name a few. The Congress System finally collapsed in 1914 with the start of World War One.
That conflict was followed by the League of Nations. It did not stop World War Two. That was
followed by the United Nations and other post-war institutions. But all the indications are
they will not prevent a third world war. The powers that are leading us towards conflagration
see this as a re-run of the first Cold War. They are dangerously mistaken. https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/
Guy , September 13, 2019 at 13:21
With so many believing the lies ,how will this mess ever come to light . I don't reside in
Australia but anywhere in the Western world the shakedown is the same .In my own house ,the
discussion on world politics descends into absolute stupidity . As one can't get past the
constant programming that has settled in the minds of the comfortable with the status quo of
lies by our media. There are intelligent sources of news sources but none get past the
absolutely complete control of MSM.So the bottom line is ,for now ,the lies and liars are
winning the propaganda war.
He speaks the truth. Liars and dissemblers have won over the minds and hearts of so many
lazy shameful citizens who will not accept the truth Tony Kevin wants to share with the
world.
Washington resumes military assistance to Kyiv. According to American lawmakers, Ukraine
is fighting one of the main enemies. "Contain Russia": what the US pays for Ukraine
Anyone or article who spells Kiev as Kyiv can be safely ignored as western anti-Russia
propaganda. It's a true tell.
Robert Edwards , September 13, 2019 at 12:53
The Cold war is totally manufacture to keep the dollars flowing into the MIC – what
a sham . and a disgrace to humanity.
Cavaleiro Marginal , September 13, 2019 at 12:52
"The key tools are repetition of messages, and diversification of trusted voices. Once a
critical mass is created of people believing a false narrative, the lie locks in: its
dissemination becomes self-sustaining."
This had occurred in Brazil since the very first day of Lula's presidency. Eleven years
late, 2013, a color revolution began. Nobody (and I mean REALLY nobody) could realize a color
revolution was happening at that time. In 2016, Dilma Rousseff was kicked from power
throughout a ridiculous and illegal coup perpetrated by the parliament. In 2018 Lula was
imprisoned in an Orwellian process; illegal, unconstitutional, with nothing (REALLY nothing)
proved against him. Then a liar clown was elected to suppress democracy
I knew on the news that in Canada and Australia the police politely (how civilized ) went
to some journalist's homes to have a chat this year. Canadians and Aussies, be aware. The
fascism's dog is a policial state very well informed by the propaganda they call news.
Robert Fearn , September 13, 2019 at 12:48
As a Canadian author who wrote a book about various tragic American government actions,
like Vietnam, I can relate to the difficulties Tony has had with his book. I would mail my
book, Amoral America, from Canada to other countries, like the US, and it would never arrive.
Book stores would not handle it, etc. etc.
Josep , September 17, 2019 at 05:21
Not to disagree, but some years ago I read about anecdotes of anti-Americanism in Canada,
coming from both USians and Canadians, whether it be playful banter or legitimate criticism.
I believe it is more concentrated among the people than among the governmental elites (with
the exception of the Iraq War era when both the people and the government were against it).
And considering what you describe in your book and the difficulty you've faced in
distributing it abroad, maybe the said people are on to something.
Stephen , September 13, 2019 at 11:44
This interview by Abby Martin with Mark Ames is a little dated but is a fairly accurate
history. I post it to try and counter the nonsense.
Outstanding article and analysis. Thank you Sir! Jeremy Kuzmarov
Jeff Harrison , September 13, 2019 at 10:17
Thank you, sir. A far better peroration than I could have produced but what I have
concluded nonetheless.
Skip Scott , September 13, 2019 at 10:10
Fantastic article. Left unmentioned is the origin of the west's anti-Russia narrative.
Russia was being pillaged by the west under Yeltsin, and Russia was to become our newest
vassal. Life expectancy dropped a full decade for the average Russian under Yeltsin. The
average standard of living dropped dramatically as well. Putin reversed all that, and enjoys
massive popular support as a result. The Empire will never tolerate a national leader who
works for the benefit of the average citizen. It must be full-on rape, pillage and plunder-
OR ELSE. Keep that in mind as we watch the latest theatrical performances by our DNC
controlled "Commander in Chief" wannabes.
Realist , September 17, 2019 at 05:48
?The ongoing success of the "Great Lie" (that Washington is protecting the entire world
from
anarchy perpetrated by a few bad actors on the global stage) and all of its false narrative
subtexts
(including but far from limited to the Maidan, Crimea, Donbass, MH-17, the Skripals,
gassing
"one's own people," piracy on the high Mediterranean, etc) just underscores how successful
was
the false flag operation known as 9-11, even as the truth of that travesty is slowly
being
unraveled by relentless truth-seekers applying logic and the scientific method to the
problem.
Most Americans today would gladly concur, if queried, that Osama bin Laden was most
certainly
a perfidious tool of Russia and its diabolical leader, Mr. Putin (be sure to call him "Vlad,"
to
conjure up images of Dracula for effect). The Winston Smith's are rare birds in America or
in
any of its reliable vassal states. Never mind that the spooks from Langley (and the late
"chessmaster") concocted and orchestrated all these tales from the crypt.
Lily , September 13, 2019 at 07:54
Great summary of the developement of a new cold war. The narrative of the Mainstream Media
is dangerous as well as laughable. I am glad to hear the Russian reaction to this bullshit
propaganda. As often the people are so much wiser than their government – at least in
the West.
During the Football WM a famous broadcaster of the German State TV channel ARD, who is a
giftet propagandist, regrettet publicly the difficulty to convince the stubborn Germans to
look at Russia as an enemy because they have started to look at Russia as a friend long
ago.
Contrary to the people and the big firms who are completely against the sanctions against
Russia and 100 % pro Northstream the German government with Chancelor Merkel is one of the
top US vassalles. Even the Green Party which started as an environmental and peace party are
now against North Stream and in favour of the filthy US fracking gas thanks to NATO
propaganda although Russia has never let them down. Most of "Die Grünen" party have been
turned into fervent friends of our American occupants which is very sad.
Thank you Tony Kevin. It has been great to read your article. I cant wait to read your
book 'Return to Moscow' and to watch your interview on CN Live.
Godfree Roberts , September 13, 2019 at 07:37
Good summary of the status quo. From my experience of writing similarly about China,
precisely the same policies and forces are at work.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov announced the end of the war in Syria and the
country's return to a state of peace. "Syria is returning to normal life": Lavrov announced
the end of the war
You hit several nails squarely on the head with your excellent article Tony. Thank you for
the truth of how the media is in Australia. It is indeed chilling where all this is leading.
The blatant lies just spewed out as fact by both ABC and SBS. They, in my opinion are nothing
but stenographers for the Empire, of which Australia is a fully subservient vassal state,
with no independence.
I try to boycott all Australian presstitutes . Oops, I mean 'media' now. Occasionally, I do
slip up and watch SBS or The Drum or News on ABC.
Virtually all my news comes from independent news sites like this one.
I have been accused of being a 'Putin lover', a Russian troll, a conspiracy theorist, while
people I know have claimed that "Putin is a monster whose murdered millions of people".
On and on this crap goes. And the end result? Ask Stephen Cohen. Things are very surreal now.
Sadly, you've been made an Unperson Tony.
Robyn , September 13, 2019 at 04:08
Bravo, Tony, great article. I enjoyed your book and recommend it to CN readers who haven't
yet read it.
The world looks entirely different when one stops reading/watching the MSM and turns to
CN, Caitlin Johnstone and many others who are doing a sterling job.
Cascadian , September 13, 2019 at 03:52
I don't know which is worse, to not know what you are (reliably uninformed) and be happy,
or to become what you've always wanted to be (reliably informed) and feel alone.
Realist , September 14, 2019 at 00:19
Knowing the truth has always seemed paramount to me, even if it means realising that the
entire world and all in it are damned, and deliberately by our own actions. Hope is always
the last part of our essence to die, or so they say: maybe we will somehow be redeemed
through our own self-immolation as a species.
Deb , September 13, 2019 at 02:54
As an Australian I have no difficulty accepting what Tony Kevin has said here. He should
do what Craig Murray has done start a website.
Ukraine is mainly the result of attempt of the USA to encircle Russia well as EU design for economic
Drang nach Osten -- attempt to displace Russia in xUSSR
republics.
So they pushed Ukraine into the pat that Baltic republic were already known for.
Notable quotes:
"... Ukraine's newly elected comedian president Volodymyr Zelensky called the prisoner exchange a "first step" in ending the war in Eastern Ukraine, which has killed an estimated 13,000 civilians. ..."
"... In a subsequent referendum, 89% in Donetsk and 96% in Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine voted for independence, which the new government of Petro Poroshenko government did not accept. ..."
"... She told U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt in a telephone conversation that was tapped and later leaked that Arseniy Yatsenyuk, neoliberal head of the "Fatherland" Party, should be Prime Minister as he was thought to have the "economic" and "governing experience." ..."
"... Nuland further revealed that the U.S. had invested over $5 billion in "democracy promotion" in Ukraine since 1991 through the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), which was carrying on the kind of work previously undertaken by the CIA during the Cold War. ..."
"... NED president Carl Gershman called Ukraine "the biggest prize" and an important interim step towards toppling [Russian President Vladimir] Putin who "may find himself on the losing end not just in the near abroad but within Russia itself." ..."
"... To help achieve this end, the Obama administration pledged $1 billion in loan guarantees to the post-coup government in Ukraine, which Putin considered as the "ideological heirs of [Stephen] Bandera, Hitler's accomplice in World War II." ..."
"... Swayed by a slick lobbying campaign backed by supporters of the Afghan mujahidin in the 1980s looking for a new cause and by the Senate's Ukraine Caucus, the Obama administration further provided nearly $600 million in security assistance to the Ukrainian military. ..."
"... American military advisers embedded in the Ukrainian Defense Ministry provided rocket propelled grenades, carried out training exercises and planned military operations including with members of the fascist Azov battalion, which had Nazi-inspired Wolfsangel patches emblazoned on their sleeves. ..."
On Saturday September 7, Russia and Ukraine agreed to a prisoner swap which has brought
hope of improved relations between the two countries and an end to the 5-year long conflict in
Eastern Ukraine.
A peace accord is being planned for later this month in Normandy involving Ukraine, Russia,
France and Germany.
Ukraine's newly elected comedian president Volodymyr Zelensky called the prisoner exchange a
"first step" in ending the war in Eastern Ukraine, which has killed an estimated 13,000
civilians.
The Ukraine War remains largely unknown to the American public even though the United States
has had a great stake in it.
The war started after a coup d'états in Ukraine in February 2014, which overthrew the
democratically elected pro-Russian government of Viktor Yanukovuch.
In a subsequent referendum, 89% in Donetsk and 96% in Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine voted for
independence, which the new government of Petro Poroshenko government did not accept.
The United States was a heavy backer of the coup and dirty war that unfolded in the
East.
Victoria Nuland, the head of the State Department's European desk, traveled to Ukraine three
times during the protests that triggered the coup, handing out cookies to demonstrators.
She told U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt in a telephone conversation that was tapped and
later leaked that Arseniy Yatsenyuk, neoliberal head of the "Fatherland" Party, should be Prime
Minister as he was thought to have the "economic" and "governing experience."
Nuland further revealed that the U.S. had invested over $5 billion in "democracy promotion"
in Ukraine since 1991 through the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), which was carrying on
the kind of work previously undertaken by the CIA during the Cold War.
Ukraine has long been considered an important bridge between Eastern and Western Europe and
holds lucrative oil and gas deposits.
NED president Carl Gershman called Ukraine "the biggest prize" and an important interim step
towards toppling [Russian President Vladimir] Putin who "may find himself on the losing end not
just in the near abroad but within Russia itself."
To help achieve this end, the Obama administration pledged $1 billion in loan guarantees to
the post-coup government in Ukraine, which Putin considered as the "ideological heirs of
[Stephen] Bandera, Hitler's accomplice in World War II."
Swayed by a slick lobbying campaign backed by supporters of the Afghan mujahidin in the
1980s looking for a new cause and by the Senate's Ukraine Caucus, the Obama administration
further provided nearly $600 million in security assistance to the Ukrainian military.
It was supplied with counter-artillery radars, anti-tank systems, armored vehicles and
drones in a policy expanded upon by Trump.
Before and after the Ukrainian military's campaign began, Secretary of State John Kerry, CIA
Director John Brennan, and Vice President Joe Biden visited Kiev, followed by a flow of senior
Pentagon officials.
A back-door arms pipeline was set up through the United Arab Emirates and Blackwater
mercenaries were allegedly deployed.
American military advisers embedded in the Ukrainian Defense Ministry provided rocket
propelled grenades, carried out training exercises and planned military operations including
with members of the fascist Azov battalion, which had Nazi-inspired Wolfsangel patches
emblazoned on their sleeves.
Obama's National Security adviser, Samantha Power, claimed that the [Ukrainian] governments
"response [to alleged provocations by eastern rebels] [was] reasonable, it is proportional, and
frankly it is what any of our countries would have done."
The Ukrainian military and allied warlord and neo-Nazi militias were not acting reasonably
or proportionally, however, when they carried out artillery and air attacks on cities and
struck residential buildings, shopping malls, parks, schools, hospitals and orphanages in
Eastern Ukraine, and tortured and executed POWs in what amounted to clear war crimes.
NYU Professor Stephen Cohen notes that even TheNew York Times , which mainly
deleted atrocities from its coverage, described survivors in Slovyansk living "as if in the
Middle Ages."
That the American public knows nothing of these events is a sad reflection of the
superficiality of our media and decline in the quality of international news coverage.
It is also a testament to the failing of the political left, which has embraced the cause of
immigrant and Palestinian rights and fighting climate change, legitimately, but neglected the
plight of the Eastern Ukrainian people. Join the debate on
Facebook More articles by: Jeremy Kuzmarov
Zelenskiy bends over for western corporate interests, and orders his government to get a law
ready which will allow the sale of Ukrainian farmland. Bye-bye, black earth; if the investors
can't stay in Ukraine, they'll take it with them, once they've bought it. Get ready for
hammering on the door to let GMO agricultural imports in, Europe.
Speaking of GMO, over 80% of soybeans and corn grown in the USA are GMO's. Which strongly
suggests the American soybeans Canada is buying to send to the crushers, since the Americans
can't get rid of them and have a year's harvest already in storage, are GMO. And are muscling
out Canadian-grown soybeans, so that we have to look for new markets for our own.
I see the French Ambassador to Ukraine expects 'Normandy Four' meetings to resume by the end
of this month. Just to make sure everyone knows not to actually expect any progress, the Rada
issued an official statement on non-recognition of elections held in 'occupied Crimea'. The
people of Crimea – as far as Kuh-yiv is concerned – can have a say in who local
leaders should be once they have pledged fealty to Kuh-yiv, and not until.
Actually, Ukraine is just using Crimea, which it knows it is never going to get back
again, as a reason not to fulfill any of its own obligations under the Minsk Accords. And so
the Normandy Four sessions will resume with no hope of ever seeing any results; it's just a
chance to get away from the wife and kiddies for a couple of days, fly First Class and have a
couple of meals in nice restaurants and stay in a comfortable hotel, all in exchange for
spending a few hours in conversations that might as well be barked like dogs for all the
actual use they will be.
Ukraine's ruling party on Tuesday passed legislation that allows a sitting president to
be impeached if they break the law, acting on an election pledge by President Volodymyr
Zelenskiy on the campaign trail this year
But opponents of Tuesday's vote said the legislation was rushed through without proper
consultation and that the law itself was so convoluted as to be meaningless.
The law was passed at a first reading and then immediately voted on again a second
time. Typically, legislation is sent to a committee for further scrutiny before being voted
on again
####
Meaningless? It's on the books. If there is confusion then it will be up the to judicia
branch to make sense of it, but knowing the expresse intent should go most of the way.
It's not meaningless, because in all probability it will be retroactively applied to the
illegal ouster of Yanukovych. Several sources pointed out, after the Junta appointed itself
and graced the nation with Wabbit Senya as Prime Minister, that Yanukovych was still the
legal president of Ukraine, as he had never been legally and properly impeached, and could
not after he was driven from power.
Who are these opponents of the impeachment law? The article doesn't say. Presumably the
opponents are those politicians allied to the previous Porky Pig president. Saying that the
bill was "rushed" through the Verkhovna Rada without "proper consultation" (meaning: the bill
has to be watered down through endless debate and discussion and inspection with microscopes
and tweezers to throw out annoying bits to the point where it has all water and none of the
substance of the original bill) and that the law is half-baked is just a ploy to try to stop
it from being passed.
Ha, ha!! Classic narrative management – we are supposed to believe a Ukrainian
investigation of Motor Sich when it was about to be sold to a Chinese company 'triggered'
concern in Washington. Sure it did. I would bet quite a bit that concern in Washington
triggered the Ukrainian investigation.
And I frankly doubt there were any subversive plans to sell engines or engine components
to Russia.
That was just the excuse used to nix the sale due to an investigation. But it sends a
clear message both to Ukrainian companies and the Ukrainian administration – the United
States very much wants extensive privatization of state assets; let's get those companies
thinking profits instead of subsidies.
But the privatization must be carried out so that western investors get first crack; after
all, they've been feeding Ukraine subsistence 'loans' for 5 years now. Only when westerners
have decided a company or asset is of no value may it be considered for sale to
outsiders.
As far as I can see, Motor Sich is as good as dead, unless the Chinese are allowed to
buy it. It only benefits from current installed base and future projects – of which
there is nothing of note. Russia's future platforms will have indigenous designs and old
platforms will become obsolete, so even if Motor Sich does somehow survive it will be
competing with Russia (and not western designs) which is far more sustainable. Who else makes
economic sense but China? The best case for a western buyer that I can see is if it is used
as a low-cost second tier component manufacturer and also take advantage of what little local
expertize remains.
But the west – like the oil companies we discussed who buy the design rights to
fuel-saving technologies and then shelve them, or so they are reputed to do – would be
perfectly content to see Motor Sich become a low-level component manufacturer, or disappear
altogether, so long as it is taken off the board where a Chinese buy is concerned. It has
become a symbol now out of all proportion to its actual worth, in a ball-swinging contest
which will see it interpreted as a Chinese victory if it ends up with control, and a western
victory if it manages to prevent such a buy. What happens to the Ukrainians employed there is
of no concern to anyone but themselves. I guess there's no need to mention how little effect
the Ukrainian government has on how it will come out.
Motor Sich won't just be a low-cost second-tier component manufacturer, it'll also be a
useful tax shelter for whichever Western company buys it to park profits that can be taxed at
a low percentage rate in Ukraine and the income of which (Motor Sich, that is) doesn't need
to be declared in the country where the Western country is domiciled.
The buy, if it happens, would be in favour of 'a US company through the Overseas Private
Investment Corporation (OPIC)'. If you were wondering what that is, it's just like it sounds
– a branch of the US Treasury, used to invest taxpayer money in snapping up foreign
companies for US interests, and finance American influence-peddling operations abroad which
further its foreign-policy goals.
But the new measure passed easily by 373 votes in the 450-seat parliament
A pre-election survey by the National Democratic Institute in May said only 5% of
Ukrainians thought political parties represented citizens' interests and just 3% said
politicians met their expectations. On the other hand, 87% believed political parties were
engaged in corruption
What democracy they are talking about? Democracy for whom? This Harvard political prostitutes are talking about democracy for oligarchs
which was the nest result of EuroMaydan and the ability of Western companies to buy assets for pennies on the dollar without the control
of national government like happen in xUSSR space after dissolution of the USSR, which in retrospect can be classified as a color revolution
too, supported by financial injection, logistical support and propaganda campaign in major Western MSM.
What Harvard honchos probably does not understand or does not wish to understand is that neoliberalism as a social system lost its
attraction and is in irreversible decline. The ideology of neoliberalism collapsed much like Bolsheviks' ideology. As Politician like
Joe Boden which still preach neoliberalism are widely viewed as corrupt or senile (or both) hypocrites.
The "Collective West" still demonstrates formidable intelligence agencies skills (especially the USA and GB), but the key question
is: "What they are fighting for?"
They are fighting for neoliberalism which is a lost case. Which looks like KGB successes after WWIII. They won many battles and
lost the Cold war.
Not that Bolsheviks in the USSR was healthy or vibrant. Economics was a deep stagnation, alcoholism among working class was rampant,
the standard of living of the majority of population slides each year, much like is the case with neoliberalism after, say, 1991. Hidden
unemployment in the USSR was high -- at least in high teens if not higher. Like in the USA now good jobs were almost impossible to obtain
without "extra help". Medical services while free were dismal, especially dental -- which were horrible. Hospitals were poor as church
rats as most money went to MIC. Actually, like in the USA now, MIC helped to strangulate the economy and contributed to the collapse.
It was co a corrupt and decaying , led by completely degenerated leadership. To put the person of the level of Gorbachov level of political
talent lead such a huge and complex country was an obvious suicide.
But the facts speak for themselves: what people usually get as the result of any color revolution is the typical for any county
which lost the war: dramatic drop of the standard of living due to economic rape of the country.
While far form being perfect the Chinese regime at least managed to lift the standard of living of the majority of the population
and provide employment. After regime change China will experience the same economic rape as the USSR under Yeltsin regime. So in no
way Hong Cong revolution can be viewed a progressive phenomenon despite all the warts of neoliberalism with Chenese characteristics
in mainland China (actually this is a variant of NEP that Gorbachov tried to implement in the USSR, but was to politically incompetent
to succeed)
CHENOWETH: I think it really boils down to four different things. The first is a large and diverse participation that's
sustained.
The second thing is that [the movement] needs to elicit loyalty shifts among security forces in particular, but also other
elites. Security forces are important because they ultimately are the agents of repression, and their actions largely decide
how violent the confrontation with -- and reaction to -- the nonviolent campaign is going to be in the end. But there are other
security elites, economic and business elites, state media. There are lots of different pillars that support the status quo,
and if they can be disrupted or coerced into noncooperation, then that's a decisive factor.
The third thing is that the campaigns need to be able to have more than just protests; there needs to be a lot of variation
in the methods they use.
The fourth thing is that when campaigns are repressed -- which is basically inevitable for those calling for major changes
-- they don't either descend into chaos or opt for using violence themselves. If campaigns allow their repression to throw
the movement into total disarray or they use it as a pretext to militarize their campaign, then they're essentially co-signing
what the regime wants -- for the resisters to play on its own playing field. And they're probably going to get totally crushed.
Wai Sing-Rin @waisingrin • Aug 27
Replying to @ChrisFraser_HKU @edennnnnn_ and 2 others
Anyone who watched the lone frontliner (w translator) sees the frontliners are headed for disaster. They're fighting just
to fight with no plans nor objectives.
They see themselves as heroes protecting the HK they love. No doubt their sincerity, but there are 300 of them left.
The return of 35 Ukranian prisoners and 35 Russian prisoners is a move that could ease tensions between the two countries
after Moscow's annexation of Crimea in 2014.
35 prisoners flew Kiev to Moscow as part of the swap. 22 of them have Ukrainian passports , 1 Moldovan, the rest Russian.
Tsemakh the MH17 "witness" confirmed officially as swapped.
In the framework of the exchange of prisoners, Ukraine gave Russia 35 prisoners, at least 30 of whom are citizens of Ukraine
. This follows from the preliminary list that appeared in the media.
The difference between the 30 Ukrainians LB.ua counts and the 22 Ukrainian passports tally by BBC Kiev reporter
Jonah Fisher are people from Crimea who now have Russian passports but who the Ukraine counts as Ukrainians.
So Ukraine released "at least" 30 (former) Ukrainians, 1 Moldavian and maybe a few Russians who probably never took part in
the war in east Ukraine. One of the Russians released today was one Evgeny Mefedov (pictured) of whom LB.ua writes (machine
translated):
Russian, a participant in the Odessa "Anti-Maidan" and clashes on May 2, 2014.
He claimed that he came to Odessa as a tourist.
In September 2017, he was acquitted in a riot case, but was immediately detained for an encroachment on the territorial
integrity of Ukraine.
Mefedov had done nothing. He was imprisoned five long years for being a Russian who visited Odessa at the wrong time.
The Ukrainian accounts find many less "Russian" prisoners than the "35 Russian prisoners" Reuters , CNN and HRW
falsely claim.
In the still smoldering civil war in east Ukraine Ukrainians are fighting against Ukrainians. There was and is no "Russian
invasion" of the Ukraine as 'western' media want to make us believe. The prisoners' nationalities prove it but ReutersCNN and HRW do not want you to know that. They want their readers to believe that "Russia did it".
A hat tip for the above goes to Ivan Katchanovski , a political
scientist at the University of Ottawa a who works on Ukrainian civil war issues.
My analysis shows that overwhelming majority of more than 1,000 people, who were exchanged by #Ukraine government with #donbas
separatists or #Russia in 2014-2019, were Ukrainian citizens, 1.5% regular Russian military members & 4% other #Russian citizens.
Western media don't really want to admit that, if what's happened to Syria is actually a civil war, then what's going on in
Ukraine is equally a civil war.
Excellent stuff. Nato/US General Hodges repeatedly claimed there were 14,000 active russian troops in Ukraine. Still not seen
any evidence of more than dozen in one place. (ditto Crimea).
Yet you can certainly find satellite evidence of 100 soldiers in one place, canteens, camps. Journalists were free to travel
in the area - a tip to a journalist - if you want to find soldiers ask a cab driver to take you to where the prostitutes are.
(hey you can reverse that as advice to soldiers).
Trump has congratulated Ukraine and Russia on the prisoner release. We await a similar reaction from Chrysta Freeland of the Canadian
Bandera Party.
Trump tweeted: "Russia and Ukraine just swapped large numbers of prisoners. Very good news, perhaps a first giant step to peace.
Congratulations to both countries!"
Ukraine is an incurable country. The question is not whether Russia will have enough troops to occupy this country, but whether
Russia will have enough psychiatrists and haloperidol throughout this territory.
Thank you Martin #5, maybe the Bill Gates foundation could team up with Amnesty International and fly in planeloads of people
and drugs to assist. Perhaps the US army can guarantee supply from their mates in Afghanistan. There must be plenty of NGO's willing
to join that scam too.
I think Russia is content to leave the US carrying the scrap bucket. Russia grabbed Crimea US was still awarding contracts
for its new installations there. The ethnic Russians of Ukraine's industrial and mineral rich east told the ukies to piss off
which left the US nothing but a bucket full of scraps.
The area most in need of psychiatric help is western Ukraine (the old Galicia and Volhynia), ruled by Poland from 1921 until
German invasion in 1939 or some time afterwards. When Ukraine starts breaking up some time in the next decade - I don't see the
country surviving for much longer - western Ukraine is likely to be annexed by Poland. The Poles and the EU will be carrying the
scrap bucket of Banderite Nazism.
If Volodomyr Tsemakh was still included in the prisoner swap after being questioned by Dutch investigators from the MH17 Joint
Investigation Team, what might that action say about the nature of the allegations against him? Surely if the JIT had a case against
Tsemakh, he should have stayed in prison and not been included in the swap.
With each passing day, the Netherlands becomes ever more complicit in the MH17 shootdown and cover-up, and one begins to suspect
the Dutch should never have been put in charge of investigating the incident in the first place, given that the plane took off
from Amsterdam Airport Schiphol which was already notorious as the place where the Underpants Bomber boarded a Michigan-bound
flight in 2009.
Jen
At least a few Dutch politicians were peed off enough to make some waves in the media. That did not happen here. A bit sickening
when so many politicians from both Australia and Netherlands will sacrifice their own people for US geo-political ambitions.
Part of a pattern... see "Petite leçon d'histoire à Justin Trudeau" (voltaire [dot] org)
fragment in translation> Minister Justin Trudeau's statement on August 23 is politically motivated anti-Russian propaganda
that does not serve Canada's national interest. Trudeau insulted, for no reason, not only the Government of the Russian Federation,
but also all Russians whose parents and grandparents participated in the Great Patriotic War. It tries to remove all legitimacy
from the emancipatory character of the war of the USSR against the German invader and thus to discredit the Soviet war effort.
Trudeau's statement serves the interests of his Ukrainian-born foreign minister, Chrystia Freeland, a Russophobe who pays tribute
to his late grandfather, a Ukrainian accomplice of the Nazis in German-occupied Poland.
It supports a regime in Kiev that emerged from a violent coup against the elected Ukrainian president (the Maidan coup). This
re
"Whitewashing collaborationism: Has it really come to this? As we mark the 80th anniversary of the outbreak of the Second World
War, we discover that members of the Canadian Armed Forces, successors of those who fought against Nazi Germany, attended the
unveiling last week of a monument to Nazi collaborationists. The head spins. It's really quite hard to know what to make of this,
except that contemporary geopolitics have combined with historical ignorance to produce a rather shameful outcome."
It appears that those released now did not commit something really serious, and evidence against them is somewhat construed and
disputed by their respective supporters. So it may be not so much about whether they are Ukrainians or Russians (if that matters),
but that there may be people among them who should not be in prison at all, or not for that long as their sentence goes.
While it appears that a Russian volunteer on the DPR side, who fought actual battles and is, or should be, a proper POW, named
Ruslan Gadzhiev, is not released by Ukraine.
They would need to move to a stage when they deal with amnesty to combatants, for any chance for the war to stop (if that is
really the plan).
So far, Zelenskiy talks about "returning our people and territory", which is ambiguous at best.
thanks b... apparently this propaganda is working well on canucks, as one can see from the comment section.. how the fuck crystia
freeland is in any position of power or influence in canada is a huge embarrassment to me and a number of others living here..
ignorance reigns supreme.. federal election is in october probably.. we will be getting the same or a new set of rejects..
"... Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has long pushed for Kiev to investigate Vice President Joe Biden's attempt in 2016 to get the country's top prosecutor removed at a crucial moment during an ongoing investigation into Burisma Holdings -- the Ukrainian natural gas company advised at the time by Biden's son Hunter. ..."
"... As the The New York Times reported previously, during the final year of the Obama presidency, Vice President Joe Biden "threatened to withhold $1 billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine's leaders did not dismiss the country's top prosecutor" -- Viktor Shokin -- "who had been accused of turning a blind eye to corruption in his own office and among the political elite." ..."
Also interesting is that Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani has long pushed for
Kiev to investigate Vice President Joe Biden's attempt in 2016 to get the country's top
prosecutor removed at a crucial moment during an ongoing investigation into Burisma Holdings --
the Ukrainian natural gas company advised at the time by Biden's son Hunter.
As the The New York Times
reported previously, during the final year of the Obama presidency, Vice President Joe Biden
"threatened to withhold $1 billion in United States loan guarantees if Ukraine's leaders did
not dismiss the country's top prosecutor" -- Viktor Shokin -- "who had been accused of turning
a blind eye to corruption in his own office and among the political elite."
Crucially last week Giuliani was reported to have again raised the issue with Ukrainian
officials , according to CNN
.
As CNN cynically put it in its
latest report , this suggests "the former New York mayor is making a renewed push for the
country to investigate Trump's political enemies."
But then again maybe it's as simple as the US not actually having a deep national security
interest in propping up Ukraine's military at a moment when international missile treaties with
Russian are unraveling and the war in Donbass is at a bloody stalemate.
The looming potential for a controversial cut in aid to Ukraine will make Trump's upcoming
meeting with still relatively new "political outsider" President Volodymyr Zelenskyy set for
next week all the more interesting. A final decision on the military aid is expect after this
crucial meeting.
More reason for Pappy Biden to pull out of race. Now he does not stand a chance to defeat
Trump because Hunter corruption in Ukraine and China will be center stage during election.
Obviously "lock them up " will be the battle cry. With China's latest backpedaling on tariff
retaliation, Trump can only be defeated from within Republican party by new impeachable
revelations.
Wait, so does the US still want to split China and Russia?
At G7 Macron and Trump both were talking up Putin and wanting to allow Russia back into
G8.
Then i read another interesting article about Macron inviting Putin to France:
"The dynamics of the New
Cold War might undergo a dramatic transformation if the geopolitical game-changer of a
“New Detente” between Russia and the West succeeds, which is becoming
increasingly possible as proven by recent events.
President Putin’s meeting earlier this week with his French counterpart in Paris
saw Macron repeatedly emphasizing Russia’s European
identity in a clear sign that this rapprochement is making visible progress. Macron is
motivated to play the role of mediator between the US and Russia for two main reasons, namely
that he wants to position France as a possible replacement to inevitably post-Merkel Germany
as the EU’s leading country and also to reach an accommodation with Moscow in Africa
after the completion of the country’s “
African Transversal ” earlier this summer
began to
threaten Paris’ interests in the continent. Putin responded extremely positively and reminded Macron of their
two Great Powers’ decades-long shared desire to forge “a common Europe from
Lisbon to Vladivostok”, reaffirming that Russia regards itself more as a European
country than a “Eurasian” or Asian one, which has important implications for
International Relations.
Both the Mainstream and Alternative Medias
had hitherto exaggerated the nature of the Russian-Chinese Strategic Partnership for their
own reasons, with the former wanting to portray it according to the paradigm of the so-called
“Russian threat” in order to justify a more muscular American military buildup
against them while the latter imagined that the two were “allies” jointly working
together without any disagreements whatsoever in order to accelerate the emerging Multipolar
World Order that would presumably be “anti-American”. The reality of their
relations is a lot less sexy and it’s that Russia was pushed into reorientating its
strategic focus as a result of the West’s anti-Russian sanctions following
Crimea’s reunification, which served as the catalyst for Moscow’s decision to
embrace Beijing. Russia probably wouldn’t have undertaken this move had it not been for
American pressure, but it felt compelled to since it didn’t want to remain a
“junior partner” in the US’ “New World Order”, instead
endeavoring to return to its historical role as a Great Power among equals.
In pursuit of this, it’s much easier for Russia to simply reintegrate into a
reformed “New World Order” than to build an entirely new one from scratch
alongside China, which is why the possibility of a “New Detente” is so enticing
to its leadership, though provided of course that the West is sincere in finally treating
Russia as an equal Great Power"
BASTARDS! If i had a DIME for every time Obama EXPLOITED vulnerable Americans for his road
and pony show I would be a rich woman.
I'll never forget Obama interview in prison with a few younger African American kids.
Talkin to then as if he knew what they were going through. His black *** raised WHITE and who
had ZERO clue what it was to live black and supporting the very oppressive system that jailed
them in the first place. All that after he bailed out banks and then QE under the Fed for his
wealthy CITI, Goldman and *** friends.
Could President Trump be poised to dramatically draw back the heavy US military and foreign
aid investment in Ukraine that his administration inherited from the Obama White House? Since
the US-backed coup against Russia-friendly Viktor Yanukovich on the back of the Euromaidan
protests in 2014, Washington has given Ukraine over $1 billion in security assistance to
bolster its national armed forces as they clash with pro-Russian separatists in the country's
east.
And now CNN
reports a possible drastic reversal: President Trump has "seriously considered for the
past several weeks cutting $250 million the United States is providing in military assistance
to Ukraine." The original Politico
report which broke the news said the White House has already notified Congress and multiple
US agencies of its intent to cut the aid.
Pull all military aid. This war is not wanted by Ukrainians or ethnic Russians. 75%
Ukraine wants peace, but Poroshenko government forced war so they continue stealing foreign
aid. People voted Zelenskey on his promise to end the war, jail the thief's This war is
forced by corrupt oligarchs with a help of Bidens money laundering on the people of Ukraine.
The public opinion in Ukraine is overwhelmingly to end the war, but government and the
corrupt continue to fight it.
...and instigate undemocratic coups that install anti-Russian oligarchs, and support the
Nazi Azov Battalion, and little things like that...But it's bound to be Russia's fault
somehow.
I am quite aware that it was an undemocratic coup d'etat. I was in Ukraine in 2014 when
everything was unfolding. The coup d'etat was organized via Facebook from the US Embassy.
people were paid to show up but nobody was to show up until there were guarantees from enough
people that there would be a certain minimum attendance.
That's assuming the war state would let him pull the money.
Seems to me like anytime Trump mentions dialing back hostilities anywhere with anybody at
any time for any reason, the corporate media and war-loving Congressworms start shreiking
doom, the military turtles up and ignores him, and nothing changes. Maybe this time will be
different, but I doubt it.
Just theater for distraction of the sheeple. 250mil or 1 bil does not even equate to tiny
drop in a bucket. Why don't they talk about 34 billion given to an ethnic group in the Middle
East.
trump's neocons are all in a lather about a Chinese company's bid to purchase a majority
stake in a Ukrainian aircraft engine company. I think they sent Pompeo over just recently to
ride roughshod on the new Ukie admin to get the deal blocked, so this flap might be another
way to pressure them
As for Burisma Holdings, if you pry the rock off of that be prepared to see a whole lot of
**** roaches scatter including Ihor Kolomoisky, the character who the newly installed
President of Ukraine worked for in the TV series where he played the part of President.
Kolomoisky owned Burisma through his Privat Bank which also underwent some extraordinary
upheaval not long ago, which is typical of Ihor's past dealings.
You could spend hours researching Ihor as I did and I guarantee you'd find it a real eye
opener. Robert Parry of Consortium News described him thusly:
In the never-never land of how the mainstream U.S. press covers the Ukraine crisis, the
appointment last year of thuggish oligarch Igor Kolomoisky to govern one of the country's
eastern provinces was pitched as a democratic "reform" because he was supposedly too rich
to bribe, without noting that his wealth had come from plundering the country's
economy.
In other words, the new U.S.-backed "democratic" regime, after overthrowing
democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych because he was "corrupt," was rewarding
one of Ukraine's top thieves by letting him lord over his own province, Dnipropetrovsk
Oblast, with the help of his personal army.
The level of "experts" is pretty dismal. While some quotes are apt, the general level is horrible for such an important
topic., Not a single one put Putin career in context of ascendance of neoliberalism from 1990 to 2007 and then crash and decline
with the USA economics entering the period of secular stagnation. not a single one.
Most of those are neocons or some king of imperialists who believe in God given right for the USA to dominate the globe. That's
another problem.
Notable quotes:
"... Henry Kissinger : Starting with American support for the Orange Revolution in Ukraine in 2004, Putin has gradually convinced himself that the U.S. is structurally adversarial. By “structural,” I mean that he may very well believe that America defines its basic interest as weakening Russia, transforming us from a potential ally to another foreign country that he balances with China and others. ( The Atlantic, 11.10.16 ) ..."
"... Thomas Graham and Rajan Menon : In Moscow’s reading, the United States had masterminded the revolution [in Ukraine] to install a pro-Western figure as president over the candidate endorsed by Putin. Putin soon came to view the revolution in Ukraine as a dress rehearsal for regime change in Russia itself. ..."
"... In Putin’s view, the United States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further. ( The Washington Post, 02.05.15 ) ..."
Henry Kissinger : Starting with American support for the Orange Revolution in
Ukraine in 2004, Putin has gradually convinced himself that the U.S. is structurally
adversarial. By “structural,” I mean that he may very well believe that America
defines its basic interest as weakening Russia, transforming us from a potential ally to
another foreign country that he balances with China and others. (
The
Atlantic, 11.10.16 )
Thomas Graham and Rajan Menon : In Moscow’s reading, the United States had
masterminded the revolution [in Ukraine] to install a pro-Western figure as president over the
candidate endorsed by Putin. Putin soon came to view the revolution in Ukraine as a dress
rehearsal for regime change in Russia itself. Putin believed it was part of the United
States’ larger effort to construct a unipolar world based on its values and interests, a
world that it could dominate with little regard for other major powers. In response Putin began
working to fortify Russia against Western influence and interference. (
The Boston
Review , 09.12.17)
Steven Pifer : Putin sees Russians & Ukrainians as one people. Said so in
Kyiv in 2013. Does not understand he thereby denies Ukrainian history, culture. (
Twitter ,
05.26.17)
Roger McDermott and Stephen Cimbala : Putin’s actions in Crimea were not
entirely sui generis : They were preceded by a context of demands upon Russia from
its post-Cold War military and geostrategic setting, compared to that of the Soviet Union.
Putin’s policy is not the result of psychodrama. It is the product of his having lived
in strategic history and his (and our) understanding of that history. (
The Journal of Slavic
Military Studies , 10.14.16)
Anatol Lieven : Russia’s restraint in Ukraine shows that there is no
serious reason to fear that Mr. Putin is ready to create a new, worse international crisis by
attacking the Baltic states or Poland. (
New York Times ,
03.18.16)
Steven Pifer : A weak Ukrainian government incapable of meeting the challenges
before it ensures that the Maidan model will have little attraction for the Russian populace.
This consideration could mean that Mr. Putin wants a failed Ukrainian state. (
Testimony before U.S.
Senate , 03.04.15)
Fiona Hill and Clifford Gaddy : The logic of sending weapons to Ukraine seems
straightforward and is the same as the logic for economic sanctions: to change Vladimir
Putin’s “calculus.” … We strongly disagree [with calls on the West to
provide military support to Ukraine]. The evidence points in a different direction. If we
follow the recommendations of this report, the Ukrainians won’t be the only ones caught
in an escalating military conflict with Russia. (
The Washington Post, 02.05.15 )
Fiona Hill and Clifford Gaddy : Our problem is that we do not fully understand
Putin’s calculus, just as he does not understand ours. In Putin’s view, the United
States, the European Union and NATO have launched an economic and proxy war in Ukraine to
weaken Russia and push it into a corner. As Valery Gerasimov, chief of staff of the Russian
armed forces, has underscored, this is a hybrid, 21st-century conflict, in which financial
sanctions, support for oppositional political movements and propaganda have all been
transformed from diplomatic tools to instruments of war. Putin likely believes that any
concession or compromise he makes will encourage the West to push further. (
The Washington Post, 02.05.15 )
The net result on Ukrainian independence was the dramatic rise of political influence of western Ukraine which was suppressed in
the USSR. under Yutchenko they came to power and they regained it after Yanukovich demise. And their interests and their
desire to colonize Eastern Ukraine do not correlate will with the desires of the Eastern Ukrainian population. So Ukraine
remains a divided country with the differences being patched by continuing war in Donbass. So in way continuation of the
war is in the best political interests of Western Ukrainian nationalists. Kind of insurance which simplify for them to stay in
power. While politically they lost in recent Presidential elections the presence of paramilitary formations ensure that they
still have considerable political power including the power of veto.
Whether hardship inflicted on population after EuroMaydan will eventually help to restore the balance and raise political
influence of Eastern Ukraine because Western Ukrainian nationalists are now completely politically discredited due to the dramatic
drop in the standard of living after EuroMaydan is difficult to say. In any case Ukraine now is a debt slave and vassal of the
USA with the USA embassy controlling way to much to consider Ukraine to be an independent country. Few countries manage to dig
themselves out of this hole.
For such countries rise of anti-colonial movement is a possibility, but paradoxically Western Ukrainian nationalists side
with colonial power representing in a way fifth column (and they did played the role of fifth column during EuroMaydan giving
power to rabid neoliberals like Yatsenyuk, who was essentially an agent of the USA, who wanted to privatize everything for
cents on the dollar as long as he and his circle get cramps from it, ordinary Ukrainians be damned ). Understanding that the USA is
the most dangerous partner to have, in many ways no less dangerous then Russia is still pending for the Ukrainian neoliberal elite,
part of which ( Kushma, Victor Pinchuk) clearly are plain-vanilla
compradors.
Notable quotes:
"... Three decades of Ukrainian independence have brought little in the way of economic development or other strong reasons to embrace a Ukrainian identity. At the same time, Russia has become a far more prosperous, orderly place that exudes confidence and power since Vladimir Putin came to power. Millions of eastern Ukrainians have gone to Russia as guest workers – and more recently as war refugees . Today, the Ukrainian diaspora in Russia is by far the world's largest. ..."
"... The western regions of Ukraine, on the other hand, were part of European states like Austria-Hungary and Poland until World War II, when they were annexed by the Soviet Union. Now, people overwhelmingly speak Ukrainian as their first language, take a suspicious (and historically grounded) view of Russia, and tend to look west for their inspiration ..."
"... Millions of Ukrainians go to Poland and beyond as guest workers, and their impressions help to fuel the certainty that Ukraine needs to seek a European future. ..."
"... Not coincidentally, the enthusiasm and conviction of western Ukrainians have disproportionately driven two pro-Western revolutions on the Maidan in Kyiv in the past 15 years, with little visible support from populations in the country's east. ..."
"... "People in the western Ukraine are different from us. It's not just language, or anything simple like that. They took power away from a president our votes elected, and they want to rip us out of our ways, abandon our values, and become part of their agenda," says Maxim Tkach, regional head of the Party of Life, the pro-Russian group that was the front-runner in parliamentary elections here in Mariupol. ..."
"... "When they started that Maidan revolution, they said it was about things we could support, like fighting corruption and ending oligarchic rule. But none of that happened. They betrayed every single principle they had shouted about. Instead, they want us to change the names of our streets and schools, honor 'heroes' like Stepan Bandera that our ancestors fought against. These are things we can't accept. ... ..."
"... "If there had been no Maidan, we would still have Crimea. There would have been no war. There would be no pressure on us to change our customs, our language, or our church . It was this aggressive revolution, by just part of the country, that caused these problems," he says. "Russia is Russia. It is acting in its own interests, but why do we need to antagonize it?" ..."
"... But while the two nearby separatist statelets, the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, may be backed by Russia, they emerged from deep local roots. That is a clear observation from one of the most exhaustive studies of the war to date, Rebels Without a Cause , published last month by the International Crisis Group. ..."
"... The war has done great and possibly irreparable damage to Ukraine's economy , and the longer it continues, the harder it may be to ever reintegrate the former industrial heartland of Donbass with the rest of the country. ..."
"... Mr. Tkach, the regional party head, says the idea of victory is a dangerous chimera, and what most people around here want is peace and restoration of normal relations with Russia. ..."
"... "Of course we need to negotiate directly with" the rebel republics, he says. "These are our people. We understand them. Perhaps we need a step-by-step process, in which they are granted some special status. What would be wrong with that? They have also suffered, had their homes shelled by Ukrainian forces, lost their loved ones. Trust needs to be restored, and that might take some time." ..."
"... But he is adamant that those territories need to be recovered for Ukraine. "The task before us is to bring them back to Ukraine, and Ukraine to them. It must be accomplished through compromise and negotiation, because everyone is tired of war. Once we have done this, and have peace, then we can talk about Crimea." ..."
"... Mr. Tkach says so too. "We wish Zelenskiy well, but we really doubt that he can make peace happen. Our party has the connections and the right approach, and we think it will be necessary to bring us into the process." He's talking about dealing with the Russia that exists just across the Sea of Azov and a few miles down the road ..."
Almost every conversation in Ukraine these days will touch upon the grinding, seemingly endless war in the eastern region of Donbass.
People speak of overwhelming feelings of pain and weariness. And they express near-universal hopes that the new president, Volodymyr
Zelenskiy, will finally do something to end it.
Here in Mariupol, where the front line is a 10-minute drive from downtown, those conversations tend to be intense.
But depending on whom you talk to, the path to peace can look very different.
Much of the population around here speaks Russian, is used to having close relations with nearby Russia, and can't imagine any
peace that would impose permanent separation. Many people have family, friends, and former business associates living just a few
miles away on the other side of the border. More than half of voters in the Ukrainian-controlled part of Donetsk Region, of which
Mariupol is the largest city, expressed those instincts in July 21 parliamentary elections by voting for two "pro-Russian" political
parties. Both of them would like to forge a peace on Moscow's terms and return at least this part of Ukraine to its historical place
as part of the Russian sphere of influence.
But there are also many who espouse an emerging Ukrainian identity, who see the 2014 Maidan "Revolution of Dignity" as a breaking
point that gave Ukraine the chance to escape the grasp of autocratic Russia and embrace a European future. They want nothing to do
with Russian-authored peace plans, say there is no alternative to fighting on to victory in the Donbass war, and want to
quarantine Ukraine from its giant neighbor – at least until Russia changes its fundamental nature.
Despite the two groups' shared desire for peace, their starkly different visions for what that peace would entail could prove
a major obstacle for ending the war in eastern Ukraine.
Looking east, looking west
These divisions are rooted in Ukrainian history. The country's eastern regions have been part of Russian-run states for over 300
years. Three decades of Ukrainian independence have brought little in the way of economic development or other strong reasons to
embrace a Ukrainian identity. At the same time, Russia has become a far more prosperous, orderly place that exudes confidence and
power since Vladimir Putin came to power. Millions of eastern Ukrainians have gone to Russia as guest workers – and more recently
as
war refugees . Today, the Ukrainian diaspora in Russia is by far the world's largest.
The western regions of Ukraine, on the other hand, were part of European states like Austria-Hungary and Poland until World War
II, when they were annexed by the Soviet Union. Now, people overwhelmingly speak Ukrainian as their first language, take a suspicious
(and historically grounded) view of Russia, and tend to look west for their inspiration. In 1990, living standards in Ukraine and
Poland were about equal. Since Poland joined the European Union in 2004, its living standards have doubled and it has become a vibrant
European state. Millions of Ukrainians go to Poland and beyond as guest workers, and their impressions help to fuel the certainty
that Ukraine needs to seek a European future.
The Party of Life, of which local businessman Maxim Tkach is a regional head, argues that peace can be achieved in eastern
Ukraine only by following a Russia-favored plan for the region.
Not coincidentally, the enthusiasm and conviction of western Ukrainians have disproportionately driven two pro-Western revolutions
on the Maidan in Kyiv in the past 15 years, with little visible support from populations in the country's east.
"People in the western Ukraine are different from us. It's not just language, or anything simple like that. They took power away
from a president our votes elected, and they want to rip us out of our ways, abandon our values, and become part of their agenda,"
says Maxim Tkach, regional head of the Party of Life, the pro-Russian group that was the front-runner in parliamentary elections
here in Mariupol.
"When they started that Maidan revolution, they said it was about things we could support, like fighting corruption and ending
oligarchic rule. But none of that happened. They betrayed every single principle they had shouted about. Instead, they want us to
change the names of our streets and schools,
honor 'heroes' like Stepan Bandera that our ancestors fought against. These are things we can't accept. ...
"If there had been no Maidan, we would still have Crimea. There would have been no war. There would be no pressure on us to change
our customs, our language, or
our church . It was this aggressive revolution, by just part of the country, that caused these problems," he says. "Russia is
Russia. It is acting in its own interests, but why do we need to antagonize it?"
"The majority who want to be Ukrainian"
Maria Podibailo, a political scientist at Mariupol State University and head of New Mariupol, a civil society group founded to
support the Ukrainian army, offers a completely different narrative. She originally came from Ternopil in western Ukraine and has
made Mariupol her home since 1991.
She says there were no separatist feelings in Mariupol, or the Donbass, until after the Maidan revolution when Russian agitators
started traveling around eastern Ukraine, spreading lies and stirring up moods that had never existed before. Local pro-Russian oligarchs
wielded their economic power to support separatist groups, while passive police and security forces allowed Russian-led separatists
to seize public buildings and hold anti-Ukrainian protests in Mariupol. It wasn't until the arrival of the Ukrainian army – first
in the form of the volunteer Azov Battalion – that the separatists were driven out and the front line was pushed back from the city
limits in 2014, she says.
"That is why we support the army, and only trust the army," she says.
Ms. Podibailo's university-sponsored opinion surveys in 2014, after the rebellion began, found that a three-quarters majority
of local people supported a future as part of Ukraine, not Russia. That majority was subdivided into several visions of what kind
of Ukraine it should be, but only 12% wanted to join Russia, and 8% wanted Donbass to be an independent republic – a point often
overlooked in the simplistic pro-Russian versus pro-Western scheme in which these events are frequently portrayed.
"That's when we knew we were on the right track," she says. "We were not a beleaguered minority at all. We were part of the majority
who want to be Ukrainian."
But while the two nearby separatist statelets, the Donetsk People's Republic and the Lugansk People's Republic, may be backed
by Russia, they emerged from deep local roots. That is a clear observation from one of the most exhaustive studies of the war to
date,
Rebels Without a Cause , published last month by the International Crisis Group.
"We cannot talk to the leaders of these so-called republics. How could we possibly trust them?" says Ms. Podibailo. Her view is
that, after victory, the population of the republics should be sorted out into those who collaborated with the enemy and those who
were innocent victims, as happened after World War II.
"There is no way for this war to end other than in Ukrainian victory. I have never heard of a war that ends leaving things the
same way, or just through some talks. People say it might take a long time, and the threat will last forever because we have such
a neighbor.
"But we have the United States behind us, we have the West behind us, and they are attacking Russia from the other side with sanctions.
We will win," she says.
"These are our people"
Mr. Tkach, the regional party head, says the idea of victory is a dangerous chimera, and what most people around here want
is peace and restoration of normal relations with Russia.
"Of course we need to negotiate directly with" the rebel republics, he says. "These are our people. We understand them. Perhaps
we need a step-by-step process, in which they are granted some special status. What would be wrong with that? They have also suffered,
had their homes shelled by Ukrainian forces, lost their loved ones. Trust needs to be restored, and that might take some time."
But he is adamant that those territories need to be recovered for Ukraine. "The task before us is to bring them back to Ukraine,
and Ukraine to them. It must be accomplished through compromise and negotiation, because everyone is tired of war. Once we have done
this, and have peace, then we can talk about Crimea."
One of the leaders of the Party of Life – which came in a distant second in the national parliamentary elections – is Ukrainian
oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk, who has strong connections to the Kremlin and whose daughter has Mr. Putin as her godfather. Attending
the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum along with Mr. Putin this spring, Mr. Medvedchuk was introduced as "a representative
of the Ukraine that can make a deal."
Mr. Tkach says so too. "We wish Zelenskiy well, but we really doubt that he can make peace happen. Our party has the connections
and the right approach, and we think it will be necessary to bring us into the process." He's talking about dealing with the Russia
that exists just across the Sea of Azov and a few miles down the road.
It's very sad that Ukraine is just a pawn in dirty geopolitical games of the USA, the EU and Russia.
Notable quotes:
"... In 3-5 years we could have an interesting scenario in Ukraine with land (its main wealth) owned by foreign investors and a large % of population with Russian or Polish and other EU passports. As always with ideology, the result is the exact opposite of what that ideology claims: the dictatorship of proletariat impoverished and killed proletariat, Nazis dramatically shrunk German lebensraum, liberals obsession with ' liberty and universal brotherhood ' is leading to censorship, suppression and group hostilities. But here we are and the ideological idiocy that Maidan-Ukrainians embraced might not be reversible. This is not good for anybody. ..."
"... For Ukraine these are all irreversible losses, but from Western perspective, these are little victories: Russia was forced to spend more. As the West does not give a hoot about Ukraine, the US and its vassals can freely celebrate these victories. ..."
"... So, it all depends on the point of view. The West never cared about aborigines, so their point of view does not come into its calculations. ..."
"... Currently prevailing mood in Russia is that Ukraine, whoever is the power there, gets nothing, nada, zilch. ..."
"... But Ukrainian authorities worked pretty hard to achieve it, and now Ukraine has to live with this new reality. It won’t be pretty. The US was simply following its standard policy: leave a pile of shit, declare victory, and leave, waiting for someone else to clean up. ..."
"... Now there is only one way Russia would clean up: if the EU pays full price for it. As this is unlikely, the aborigines are going to bear the brunt of the consequences. ..."
miscalculation that the rotten West will help them instead of use them to create a
festering sore on Russian border for just a few billion dollars in loans.
A possibly a fatal miscalculation for Ukraine, but there is also an ideology involved. In
Maidan-Ukrainians case that ideology is Ukrainian nationalism combined with a servile Western
worship of almost cargo-cult level. An odd combination that has led to odd result.
West wanted Zelensky to win, the question is why. Tactically, Zelensky neutralized large
Russia-leaning block of voters: the 70% vote would have gone somewhere and they were not
going to vote for Poroshenko or Tymoshenko. So that misdirection was successful. But what was
the point?
Let's look at what Zelensky is actually doing (not the throw-away comedy and
rhetoric): he is trying to allow sale of Ukrainian land to foreign investors. My guess is
that he will push it through and that will his main legacy. Buying up Ukrainian arable land
has been a wet dream for many in the West since 1991. Zelensky could deliver on it, and then
move on.
In 3-5 years we could have an interesting scenario in Ukraine with land (its main wealth)
owned by foreign investors and a large % of population with Russian or Polish and other EU
passports. As always with ideology, the result is the exact opposite of what that ideology
claims: the dictatorship of proletariat impoverished and killed proletariat, Nazis
dramatically shrunk German lebensraum, liberals obsession with ' liberty and universal
brotherhood ' is leading to censorship, suppression and group hostilities. But here we
are and the ideological idiocy that Maidan-Ukrainians embraced might not be reversible. This
is not good for anybody.
Why does the Saker think that Ze had any choice? He is a puppet, a stuffed shirt brought to
”power” by Kolomoisky and allied oligarchs. The only goal was to chase Porky and
allied thieves from the trough to be able to steal more.
Now, the people of Ukraine had choice. But they blew it again, like many times before:
each Ukrainian “president” is worse than his predecessor. As the saying goes,
“fool me once, shame on you…” Ukrainians let themselves be fooled six
times already, so there is no doubt where the shame goes.
It was said that the nationalism is the last resort of a scoundrel. But it isn’t the
only one. Nationalism, stupid unrealistic dreams to feed sheeple, fairy tales about
aggression, and the war create perfect smokescreen for blatant thievery. It continues
unabated, ever since 1991.
Russia does need to make its choice. But it is complicated by the role of Russian thieves
(polite word is oligarchs) in current Russian state. Putin kicked some out. The remaining
ones have enough brains to figure that they need a strong state to protect them, lest their
loot be stolen by Western thieves. So, they are a step ahead of Ukrainian thieves who did not
tumble even to this simple realization. But no more than one step ahead.
The economic reality is that Russian state does not have the resources to restore Ukraine,
even if sane forces come to power there. So, Ukraine would likely keep festering, losing
millions of working age people (like today), possibly losing chunks of territory (as the joke
has it, whoever remains in Ukraine pays off the debt). The problems of that huge Somalia can
only be solved by concerted effort of many European countries and Russia. This is not on the
cards, at least not until Ukies create yet another Chernobyl. Then the EU might decide to
send its US overlords to Hell and pay Russia to take the hand grenade away from the monkey. I
don’t think Putin will live long enough to see that happen.
…EU might decide to send its US overlords to Hell and pay Russia to take the hand
grenade away from the monkey.
How would EU go against its overlord? Even if EU would try, the existential nihilism in
Kiev will prevent compromise. Ideologues can’t admit that their ‘idea’
didn’t work, they prefer destroying everything around. West is also at this point
incapable of admitting an error – they literally can’t do it, the lying has to go
on. That means that even groundwork for any possible compromise can’t be put in place.
This is all the way down with fireworks and it won’t be pretty.
There is such a thing as a catastrophic error and the last 5 years in Ukraine comes pretty
close to it. That is not really fixable. The monkey night as well use the grenade.
Minsk agreement was an incredibly generous deal, if Poroshenko had half a brain he would
had jumped on it and today Donbas would be a remote backwater with autonomy.
That would be true if Porky was interested in Ukraine. As it is, his only interest and
loyalty was and is his personal loot. To keep stealing, he (and allied thieves) needed the
smokescreen of war, fairy tales of “aggression”, and pipe dreams of “greater
Ukraine” for the sheeple. He succeeded in his thievery for five years. Now another gang
of thieves pushed his gang from the trough. End of story.
Are you a teenager unaware of the history of the Maidan regime-change
“revolution?” Here are two most influential Ukranian parties-participants in the
“revolution:” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
The Svoboda Party was founded in 1991 as the Social-National Party of Ukraine … It
is widely considered a fascist..party….
Time has described it [the Right Sector Party] as a “radical right-wing group
… a coalition of militant ultra-nationalists” with an ideology that
“borders on fascism”.
Die Welt, The New York Times, and Le Monde Diplomatique have described some of
Right Sector’s constituent groups as radical right-wing, neofascist, or
neo-Nazi…
You are a pessimist (or a fatalist). I agree that EU is shamefully subservient to the US,
but when some of their core interests are at stake, even slavish EU can show some teeth. Just
think of Nord Stream-2: the US is jumping out of its skin to damage this project, but Germany
stands remarkably firm.
From Western point of view, Ukie provocation was not a complete failure (even though
it’s a catastrophic failure from Ukrainian point of view): Russia had to spend a lot to
develop the production of military things it used to import from Ukraine, like ships, ship
engines, helicopter engines, spaceship control systems, etc.
Now that it acquired the
capability to produce these things, there will be no going back regardless who rules Ukraine:
it’s industries that used to export to Russia are doomed. These include such giants as Nikolaev shipbuilding plant, Motor Sich in Zaparozie, Antonov aircraft building plant in Kiev,
etc. The same goes for transit.
It is not just natural gas transit everybody talks about.
Russia used to transport ammonia to Odessa, where it was partially exported and partially
converted into fertilizers. The plant that used to do that is dead.
Ukraine tried to sell it
for $5 billion under Yanuk and got no takers, about a year ago it tried to sell it for 10% of
that price, and got no takers again.
There also used to be substantial Russian payments for
transport via the railway going across Eastern Ukraine.
Russia built an alternative bypassing
Ukraine, so they might as well dismantle the rails on their route.
For Ukraine these are all
irreversible losses, but from Western perspective, these are little victories: Russia was
forced to spend more. As the West does not give a hoot about Ukraine, the US and its vassals
can freely celebrate these victories.
So, it all depends on the point of view. The West never cared about aborigines, so their
point of view does not come into its calculations.
That’s true, when it comes to resources, there are always alternatives how to spend
them.
Currently prevailing mood in Russia is that Ukraine, whoever is the power there, gets
nothing, nada, zilch.
Considering how closely Ukrainians are related to Russians, this feat
wasn’t easy.
But Ukrainian authorities worked pretty hard to achieve it, and now Ukraine
has to live with this new reality. It won’t be pretty. The US was simply following its
standard policy: leave a pile of shit, declare victory, and leave, waiting for someone else to
clean up.
Now there is only one way Russia would clean up: if the EU pays full price for it. As
this is unlikely, the aborigines are going to bear the brunt of the consequences.
Saker is naive and badly educated. It is stupid to call Ukraine an oligarchy. All countries on Earth are oligarchies.
The real question is which group of oligarchs is in power. In case of Ukraine those are privatization sharks, the worst kind
of neoliberal financial scum. Often real criminals.
Otto von Bismarck created a powerful German state which exists to this day. While vassal of the USA it is still a state
now. And Merkel role in EuroMaidan definitely reminds Drang
nach Osten in neoliberal packaging. Neocolonialism in its pure form
Ukraine is just a pawn in a bigger geopolitical game of the USA and EU against Russia. That explains in the current state of
Ukrainian economics and the level of Ukrainian population sufferings. Ukrainian
nationalist paradoxically served as the fifth column for the neoliberal oligarchy. The phenomenon similar to the US
nationalists role under Trump.
At the same time despite dismally low standard of living Ukrainian population is showing great resilience in the current
hardships and infrastructure while completely worn out still works. But Ukraine is now completely Latin-Americanized, which was
the goal of the USA from the very beginning for all Soviet space. Ukraine now is a debt slave of the West which
is completely opposite to any nationalist movement goals.
According to
Wikipedia just
5% of population lives of less than $5.50 a day. That's baloney. In reality the percentage is probably two-three times times
higher (average monthly pension is typically less then $1500 grivna which is less then $60) so most of pensioners live on
less then $2 a day. 8 million of the approximately 12 million of Ukrainian pensioners were receiving the minimum pension of
1312 (around $50) while medium pension amounted to 1886 UAH (Pensions
in Ukraine - Wikipedia) And 12 million is 28% of Ukrainian population (around 42-43 million total down from 45.55 before
EuroMaydan ). It is declining around 200 persons daily. On average there are 462,052 births and 662,571 deaths in Ukraine
per year.
While pensioners are definitely starving the situation at least stabilized with grivna around 25 per dollar (something like
300% after the EuroMaydan). So Nuland advantures cost dearly for average Ukrainian.
Notable quotes:
"... These guys are a minority, a pretty small one even, but they have enough muscle and even firepower to threaten any nominal Ukrainian leader. ..."
As I have indicated in a recent article , the Ukraine is not a
democracy but an oligarchy : ever since 1991 the most prosperous Soviet republic
was mercilessly plundered by an entire class (in the Marxist sense of the word) of oligarchs
whose biggest fear has always been that the same "horror" (from their point of view) which
befell Russia with Putin, would eventually arrive at the Ukraine.
Here we need to make something clear: this is NOT, repeat, NOT about nationality or
nationalism. The Ukrainian oligarchs are just like any other oligarchs: their loyalty is to
their money and nothing else. If you want to characterize these oligarchs, you could think of
them as culturally "post-Soviet" meaning that they don't care about nationality, and even
though their prime language is Russian, they don't give a damn about Russia or Russians (or
anybody else, for that matter!). Since many of them are Jews, they have a network of
supporters/accomplices in Israel of course, but also in the West and even in Russia. In truth,
these guys are the ultimate "internationalists" in their own, toxic, kind of way.
Some fine specimens of "ochlocrats"
The other significant force in the Ukraine is the West Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi
death-squads and mobs. Their power is not a democracy either, but an ochlocracy .
These guys are a minority, a pretty small one even, but they have enough muscle and even
firepower to threaten any nominal Ukrainian leader.
Can you stop with the Ukronazi crap, what kind of Nazi Government has a Jewish PM and Jewish
President ?
Azov guys dying in Donbass and the street thugs in Kiev are just cannon fodder, they don't
run shit
The majority of Ukranians don't want to be in this conflict, I don't see the point in
demonizing all of them because of some fascist larpers
People need to move on from the past and stop all that hating others for some past deeds.
Polish or Western Ukrainian hatred for Russians, Russian hatred for Germans, Chinese &
Korean hatred for the Japanese, Indian hatred for the British or the Chinese, Black South
African hatred for Afrikaners. All these are counter productive for the people and are
emotions which can be whipped up by the elites to have commoners die like cannon fodder at
worst or to take away attention towards a past historic enemy to hide their own corruption/
incompetence at best.
People need to see things from the other side as well.
As far as the Satanic Zio elite pigs, they will use any ideology as long as it serves
them. Democracy, Communism, anti-Communism, Islamic fundamentalism, anti-Islam, Jingoistic
Nationalism, Anti-Nationalism/One Worldism, feminism, Hindutva, Buddhist fundamentalism (Sri
Lanka BBS and the secret Zionist hand), Neo-Conservatism, Leftism, Colonialism,
anti-Colonialism as long it suits them. They use them and discard them away when needed. But
this seems to be the most extreme case ever. For the first time the Zio elites are using
National Socialism as an ideology to serve them. The ideology which was probably the greatest
enemy and threat to the Zio elites, in human history. Freakin crazy!!!
More grist for Saker's suckers. The Galicians (and Ukro-Nazi Jews) are behind
everything. In Saker's simplistic mind the Galicians have infiltrated all of Ukrainian
society and run the whole show, when in fact this is just a bunch of nonsense. Well, at least
Saker is putting to use his favorite Ukrainian pejorative do I really need to repeat it
again, ad nauseum?
"The other significant force in the Ukraine is the West Ukrainian (Galician) Nazi
death-squads and mobs."
Where are death camps for the Jews? Where are racial laws that expel non-Ukrainians? Where
is the propaganda of eugenics and healthy lifestyle? Where are construction projects bringing
in jobs, and state-subsidized recreation tours?
Ukraine is a Jew-driven shithole that has nothing to do with National Socialism. They
don't even honour the sacrifice of the SS Galizien.
"but what they are genuinely fantasizing about is the territory, and only the territory.
As for the 2 million-plus virulently anti-Nazi people currently living on these lands, they
simply want them either dead or expelled)."
A lie. Currently, more than a half of those "expelled" have migrated inside Ukraine. A
stark contrast to Croatia where the Serbs were driven out of the country, and their land
given to Croats.
Again, Ukraine is suicidal and full of civic nationalism, nothing about it is
blood-based.
"They and their Polish supporters want Russia to break apart in numerous small state-lets
which they (or, in their delusional dreams, the Chinese) could dominate."
Why do you consider this as a negative for the Russian people? The current Russian state
is in its death throes as much as the US and France – the ethnic Russians are dying
out, fleeing and being replaced. Any alternative might prove out more hopeful.
"In contrast, the LDNR forces seem to be doing pretty well, and their morale appears to be
as strong as ever (which is unsurprising since their military ethos is based in 1000 years of
Russian military history)."
I have to remind you that the Donbass was colonized far more recently than Ukraine –
in the 18-19th centuries. What "ancient" traditions?
"but Novorussia also is a never healing wound in the side of Nazi-occupied Ukraine"
The Donbass has never been part of Novorussia which is to the west, from Dniepropetrovsk
to Odessa. Admittedly, Novorussia's colonists were mostly from Ukraine – it is clearly
seen on the language maps.
"The problem with this slogan is that there is simply no way the (relatively small)
Galician population can ever succeed in permanently defeating their much bigger (and,
frankly, much smarter) Jewish, Polish or Russian neighbors."
Khmelnitsky managed to do just that – 100k dead Jews. And he's on the Ukrainian
currency. Too bad modern "Nazi" Ukrainians have elected a Jew President. This is not the
Khmelnitsky uprising, this is Kiev under the Khazar Khaganate before Oleg came from the
North.
It's a of nonsense as usual. This piece is quickly refuted:
ever since 1991 the most prosperous Soviet republic
People who spread this myth are ignorant or liars. It's a common one, though.
In 1990 Ukraine's per capita GDP was $1570.
Russia's was $3485.
Belarus was $2124.
So in Soviet times, Ukraine was the poorest of the three Slavic Soviet Republics. It still
is, the position hasn't changed. It's just fallen further behind.
::::::::
Everything else is just as nonsensical, I won't even bother to detail it, most of the
commenters here are as dumb/ignorant/dishonest (take your pick) as the author pretends to
be.
I don't know where Saker sources his history. Lenin had nothing to do with the creation of
Ukraine.
I live in Western Canada, where Ukrainians come starting in the late 19th century. I'm not
referring to the primarily German speaking Mennonites that left South Central Ukraine, in the
1870s, fleeing religious persecution. By WWI, more than 200,000 were in Western Canada from
all parts of Ukraine. They considered themselves Ukrainians, not Russians, or Galicians. They
were, and to a great extent, still are Ukrainian nationalists. There continues to be friction
with Polish and German local populations, although prior to the "rebirth" of Ukraine, it had
largely subsided. Recent Russian immigrants are shunned as much as the "Poles" and "Germans".
Politically, they are generally left of center, and have been since their arrival, although
in recent decades more have become "conservative" (whatever that means these days). A long
ago former Russian Jewish co-worker who was a late 60s "escapee" from the USSR, told me that
he would never vote for one of our political parties, because there were "too many
Ukrainians" in the party. I asked a "Ukrainian" friend, who I had known since grade school,
what that meant. His explanation was that there had always been tensions between Jews and
Ukrainians, for centuries, because of what Ukrainians believed was exploitation by the Jews.
Other "Ukrainians" and "Jews" have confirmed this.
The reality is, that most people in most countries just want to live their lives in peace,
with a job good enough to provide a decent home and food for the family. That 70% of
Ukrainians want that is not surprising, it's normal. That doesn't mean they aren't
nationalists, and it doesn't mean they are Nazis. However screwed up they are in trying to do
so, Ukrainians are struggling to retain their identity and culture. IMO, they are up against
internationalist forces from all sides, and none are interested in letting that happen.
@Curmudgeon
The Nazi name-calling is over the top, and not just with regard to Ukraine or Galicia.
Historical grievances or revisions are not 'Nazism'. Too many people look at Ukraine and
over-interpret the nostalgia for Bandera or simple national self-assertion.
But I think Saker is right about where this is going. Russian side has local dominance and
that will not change. The only game in town for the last 5 years has been to see if the
Western squeeze of Russia will work faster than the Russian squeeze of Ukraine. By now it is
obvious that it won't.
Kiev has made some fatal mistakes. E.g. Minsk agreement was an incredibly generous deal,
if Poroshenko had half a brain he would had jumped on it and today Donbas would be a remote
backwater with autonomy . So? The state would be intact, taxes would be paid,
passports centrally issued, etc The eastern European dynamic is that any population always
ends up disliking its immediate rulers – how long before local leaders in Donbas would
be challenged by some younger corruption fighters.
The whole Maidan thing was also terribly mismanaged – at its core it was about
getting the best potential deal for Ukraine with EU (and Russia). In the middle of the
negotiation suddenly Maidanistas decided that symbols are more important than reality and
basically folded in front of EU. Consequently Russia walked. Thus Kiev got justa bout the
worst possible combination on non-EU and deep hostility with Russia. Smarter guys would had
handled it much better, playing both sides against each other – raising the stakes.
And let's not even get started on Crimea, while Ukies ate stale cookies, they lost
overnight their most valuable possession – they couldn't anticipate it? Being able to
anticipate is a key to intelligence and in playing any game.
So we can talk about what or who is driving modern Ukraine, oligarchs, Galicians, Jews,
Kiev thugs, Canadians – it doesn't matter, what matters is that they are incompetent.
From Yushenko to Zelensky they are amateurs driven by emotion and greed. There is no
state-forming force, there is no true Ukrainian nationalism that would play up Ukraine's
strengths and manage its weaknesses. Saker is basically right – they are in a no-win
cul-de-sac, at this point any move will make their situation worse. Their best (only?) hope
is a collapse of Russia. Now, how likely is that?
@Felix
Keverich Autism of this degree does not pop out of nowhere
You had Cossacks and Mercenaries from the Ukraine joining up with the Poles, Swedes,
Napoleon, Germans and others. Calling diaspora nationalists stupid is all fine and dandy but
the constant bickering between people in current Ukraine and in Russia stinks of divide and
conquer (which is what Ukraine vs Russia conflicts always were)
Calling them stupid and calling their ethnicity fake(which they make an actual effort to
preserve, such as it is) stinks of hypocrisy when so many Great Russians were willing to tear
their country, religion and people apart in 1917 and join up with the Bolsheviks in the rape
and pillaging
You'd probably get far more progress calling them a branch of Russian civilization, you
can cite Belarus and Siberian Ukraine as examples
It's easy to dogpile on some poor Hohol since they will always be on the defensive, but it's
much harder to understand him and admit your own faults while not backing down from your
standpoint that you are both one people
Serbs often made the same mistakes with Montenegro, and the result is the modern day
shitfest where both it and Ukraine are run by hostile US puppets
The Saker is correct that reality and pragmatism are essential 'when trying to figure out
what is going on and what might happen next.' It is a hard calculation to make in a world
increasingly chaotic and dark. The Minsk Accord is probably the only glimmer of light for
Ukraine, but then all the lights – across the world – are going out. https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/
However screwed up they are in trying to do so, Ukrainians are struggling to retain
their identity and culture. IMO, they are up against internationalist forces from all
sides, and none are interested in letting that happen.
What you posted is called a generic "to be against everything bad, for everything good".
Living in a world of unicorns and having rainbows as result of bowel movement is, of course,
a worthy aspiration but reality with Ukraine is a teeny-weeny bit more complicated than mere
attempts to "retain their identity and culture". I'll give you a hint, vast swaths of
Ukrainian population (including in the East Ukraine) believe, as an example, that Ukrainian
civilization precedes a Sumerian one. Many, very many, also still believe that valiant
Ukrainian Armed Forces still fight, for the 5th year in a row, mighty Russian Army in the
East. We are talking here about down right mental breakdown on a national level, granted, as
I always say, modern Ukraine did happen, that is coalesced, as a political nation.
In the thirteenth century, both the Ukrainians and the Russians faced more dire threats
than each other.
In the 13th century there were no Ukrainians or Ukraine. There was Russia though, Rus'.
Imagine a US state becoming independent today, from the rest of the US.. like Ohio.. and
people are going to say "the first man on the moon was an Ohioan (Armstrong), not an
American. Sorry, doesn't work like that..
You have to admit that's an impressive combination.
Yes, but it wasn't the Saker who invented it; it does seem to reflect what's going on
there. My only criticism is that he has given more prominence to the Nazis than the Jews,
unless we consider "oligarchs" as a synonym for Jews.
Like you have said in the past he is taking the Russian side. I think it's a fairly good
analysis of the situation if you go beyond his propagandistic terminology and what he leaves
unsaid. Russia really doesn't want to engage directly in the conflict but its best policy
would be to bide its time and to encourage more pro-Russian separatism in Odessa and all
other regions along the coast so as to eventually cut off Ukraine from access to the sea
altogether. That would serve Russian interests best and strengthen its position against NATO,
the EU, and the rump Ukraine, for whatever is to follow. It's a shame for any real Ukranian
nationalists but then they should have been smarter than to join all those colour revolutions
on Maidan organised by the CIA, Soros, Jewish oligarchs, etc.
That's a frozen conflict for now. Let's have another article on UR about the latest from
the US sponsored colour revolution in Hong Kong and what are the best measures that PR China
can take to quell the riots. And it's about time they took back Formosa, but it won't be as
easy as the Russian takeover of Crimea, unless they can send a million Red Army guards there
disguised as tourists to stage a silent putsch.
@Bardon
Kaldian Neonazis is a good term for the people used in the Ukrainian ZUS coup. That is
the people that was used to gain control of Ukraine for ZUS.
This coup in Ukraine, woke me up.
V. Nuland's war cry to bless the coup was "F–k The EU"
She used Neonazis to take over Ukraine.
Wait. She is Jewish. I guess the 6 million story must be bogus. She admitted it, since if
the 6 million story was real. She would have a great fear of a tidal wave of anti-S'ism
overcoming her and her people. She had no fear. Thus, the 6 million story was proved to be
false by V. Nuland. Thanks V. Nuland for freeing the world of that nightmarish propaganda
that has saddled humanity for seventy odd years.
Secondly, she told the world the reality of J. Supremacism by stating " F..k the EU". The
world thought that ZUS loved the EU as its sister in world domination. I guess not. Would V.
Nuland ever say "F..k Israel"? I think not.
Thanks V. Nuland. A new Queen Esther or Queen Victoria.
Yep, agree with Saker – I lived there before , during and now after the Maidan and he's
spot on with most of everything – he has been, since the beginning. Zelinsky has a
dozen or more bosses and he has Zero experience in what he's doing. . Zionist Bankers and
their arms dealers, Nato, Banderas gang,Washington, US Navy, Monsanto/Bayer, Royal Dutch
{shell oil }, Dupont, Lilly Pharma, Cargill, and the list could go on. He'll be lucky if he
isn't in Diapers by the time his term is up, otherwise he will be rich. I see that
Poroshanster is being called out for taking 8 billion bucks out of Ukie-Ville. I wonder how
much Trump and his family will end up stealing?. Thanks Unz Review.
Thus Kiev got justa bout the worst possible combination on non-EU and deep hostility
with Russia. Smarter guys would had handled it much better, playing both sides against each
other – raising the stakes.
As usual, you nailed it Beckow.
Also, Saker often misunderstands things but he is right that Ukraine is in a one way street
mainly because of the out-of-this-World miscalculation that the rotten West will somehow help
them instead of use them to create a festering sore on Russian border for just a few billion
dollars in loans. It is the rest of Ukraine, excluding Donbas, that will have to pay off
these war loans already stolen by the oligarchs.
@Commentator
Mike I recall that at the time of the Zionist coup (We do remember Ms Noodleman's : "fuck
the EU" don't we?) Ukrainian Nazi's were a leading force in kicking things off.
@Mr.
Hack "In Saker's simplistic mind the Galicians have infiltrated all of Ukrainian society
and run the whole show, "
This was not what I read.
The Saker said that oligarchs and Nazi militia groups have enough power to impose their will
and their agenda on the rest of the population.
When I see words like "Nazis" in relation to Ukrainians, I know that article is sh!t
& not worth reading.
This is because you don't know what Raguli(stan) is and you cannot possibly know, because
there are no "books" written yet which would encapsulate this whole phenomenon. Of course,
Ukies have no relation to Fichte and Volkskrieg. Other than that you will find an attentive
audience among local ignoramuses.
Former Ukrainian presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko trace to Steele dossier is a real shocker.
Notable quotes:
"... On December 5, 2016, Bruce Ohr emailed himself an Excel spreadsheet, seemingly from his wife Nellie Ohr, titled " WhosWho19Sept2016 ." The spreadsheet purports to show relationship descriptions and "linkages" between Donald Trump, his family and criminal figures, many of whom were Russians. ..."
"... If you want to have more fun, search the pdf using the term "BAYROCK." You will discover that Nellie Ohr, like a female Don Quixote, is searching desperately to link Trump and Sater to dirty Russian money. What she does not suspect is that Sater was being used, via his company Bayrock, to try to gain access to Russians who were potential targets of the FBI. ..."
"... What is not emphasized in the piece, and it is something I want to direct you to, is that the idea or impetus to launch the investigation of Butina came courtesy of Christopher Steele, who was relaying rumor and conjecture to Bruce Ohr. ..."
"... FBI Director Christopher Wray reminds me of one of the workers in the bowels of the Titanic who was furiously shoveling coal into the doomed boilers of the sinking ship. The FBI, like the Titanic, is in trouble. ..."
"... It also gave immunity to all of the people on Hillary's team that participated in obstruction of justice. On that same day, Jim Comey signed off on a separate memo that decided not to prosecute Hillary Clinton. ..."
"... Larry..Fusion GPS has always refused to Reveal who where its Financial support came from... ..."
"... So..the Timeline Indicates Fusion GPS was hired by The "Washington Free Beacon" around October 2015 to background checks and Profiles of The Republican Candidates for President.and that Fusion GPS continued to do so until May 2016..when it became clear that Donald Trump clinched the Nomination.. ..."
"... I wonder why AG Barr isn't forcing the FBI to comply sooner with Judge Boasberg's ruling to hand over unredacted Comey Memos and Archey Declarations? ..."
"... So what did Barack Obama know, and when did he know it? ..."
"... Nellie Ohr was working for a privately-owned firm that had employed her to make false accusations about Trump's alleged connections to Russians in order to sabotage his presidency and lay the groundwork for his impeachment. ..."
"... They also hired foreign agent, Chris Steele to concoct a thoroughly-debunked dossier for the same purpose. ..."
"... Can these people be charged with a crime or have we entered a new world of 'dirty tricks'??? ..."
"... Examination of the Nellie Ohr documents given to the FBI shows some of her source material also came from former Ukrainian presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko and a lawsuit she filed against Manafort. ..."
"... So, Bruce Ohr became a conduit of information not only for intelligence from Clinton's British opposition-researcher but also from his wife's curation of evidence from a Clinton foreign ally and Manafort enemy inside Ukraine. Talk about foreign influence in a U.S. election! ..."
"... The lines between government officials and informants, unverified political dirt and real intelligence, personal interest and law enforcement, became too blurred for the Justice Department's own good. ..."
There are many moving pieces in the drama surrounding the Deep State attempt to kill the Trump Presidency. God Bless Judicial
Watch. I think most of the key evidence that has surfaced came courtesy of Tom Fitton, Chris Farrell and their team of tireless workers.
I want to bring you back to
Mr. Felix Sater . He was part of Bayrock, which worked closely with Donald Trump's organization and, most importantly of all,
was an FBI Confidential Human Source since December of 1998.
Thanks to Judicial Watch we have a new dump of Bruce Ohr emails, which include several from his wife, Nellie. There are 330 pages
to wade thru (you can
see
them here ). There
is one item in particular I encourage you to look at:
On December 5, 2016, Bruce Ohr emailed himself an Excel spreadsheet, seemingly from his wife Nellie Ohr, titled "
WhosWho19Sept2016
." The spreadsheet purports to show relationship descriptions and "linkages" between Donald Trump, his family and criminal figures,
many of whom were Russians. This list of individuals allegedly "linked to Trump" include: a Russian involved in a "gangland
killing;" an Uzbek mafia don; a former KGB officer suspected in the murder of Paul Tatum; a Russian who reportedly "buys up banks
and pumps them dry"; a Russian money launderer for Sergei Magnitsky; a Turk accused of shipping oil for ISIS; a couple who lent their
name to the Trump Institute, promoting its "get-rich-quick schemes"; a man who poured him a drink; and others.
The spreadsheet starts on page 301. If you search the document for the name Felix Sater, he will pop up. Now here is the curious
and, I suppose, reassuring thing about this document--Nellie Ohr did not have a clue that Felix Sater was an active FBI informant.
We can at least give the FBI credit for protecting Sater's identity from Nellie Ohr and, more importantly, her husband, DOJ official
Bruce Ohr.
If you want to have more fun, search the pdf using the term "BAYROCK." You will discover that Nellie Ohr, like a female Don
Quixote, is searching desperately to link Trump and Sater to dirty Russian money. What she does not suspect is that Sater was being
used, via his company Bayrock, to try to gain access to Russians who were potential targets of the FBI.
One point is clear--she uncovered no evidence implicating Trump working with the Russians, either thru Felix Sater or one of the
other "suspects" she exhaustively listed.
Shifting gears, there are two very important pieces recently posted at The Conservative Tree House that I encourage you to read:
What is not emphasized in the piece, and it is something I want to direct you to, is that the idea or impetus to launch the
investigation of Butina came courtesy of Christopher Steele, who was relaying rumor and conjecture to Bruce Ohr.
You can find this information in the
Bruce
Ohr 302s that Judicial Watch also secured. Marina Butina was unfairly and unjustly portrayed and prosecuted as a Russian intelligence
agent. It was a damn lie.
I do not ever want to hear another American complaining about an American State Department or CIA employee who is entrapped and
unfairly prosecuted in Russia.
We have done the same damn thing that we have accused the Soviets of doing. The same thing. It is shameful.
The
second piece is the ultimate feel good piece. Kudos to its author, Sundance.
He details how a Federal Judge, infuriated by the FBIs stupidity and mendacity, tells the Bureau to go pound sand. The FBI is
frantically trying to prevent the Archey Declarations from being revealed thanks to a lawsuit brought by CNN (finally, CNN did something
right).
The Archey Declarations provide a detailed description of the memos written and illegally removed from FBI Headquarters by that
sanctimonious twit, Jim Comey. More shoes will be dropping in the coming days.
It appears that Inspector General Horowitz is going to present at least one report on Jim Comey and one report on the FISA abuse
by the FBI.
FBI Director Christopher Wray reminds me of one of the workers in the bowels of the Titanic who was furiously shoveling coal
into the doomed boilers of the sinking ship. The FBI, like the Titanic, is in trouble.
Finally, Gateway Pundit's Joe Hoft put up an important piece today (
see here ). Here is the bottomline, and keep this in mind as you read the piece, on June 20, 2016 the FBI signed off on a deal
with Hillary Clinton's attorney's that gave Hillary's team the right to destroy computers and emails.
It also gave immunity to all of the people on Hillary's team that participated in obstruction of justice. On that same day,
Jim Comey signed off on a separate memo that decided not to prosecute Hillary Clinton.
The fix was in more than a month before Jim Comey appeared on camera to try to explain why he was not recommending prosecution
of Hillary for putting Top Secret information on her unclassified server.
Jim Comey lied when he declared that could not prove "intent."
I am sure that those of you who have never held a clearance and handled Top Secret material probably believed that lie.
But anyone who knows how the TS system is set up knows that the ONLY WAY, I repeat, the ONLY WAY to put TS material on an unclassified
server is to do so intentionally. There is no way to do this mistakenly.
Jim Ticehurst said in reply to Jim Ticehurst... ,
Larry..Fusion GPS has always refused to Reveal who where its Financial support came from...
So..the Timeline Indicates
Fusion GPS was hired by The "Washington Free Beacon" around October 2015 to background checks and Profiles of The Republican Candidates
for President.and that Fusion GPS continued to do so until May 2016..when it became clear that Donald Trump clinched the Nomination..
creating Phase 2..Operations..
"The Washington Free Beacon ".Has an Editor in Chief ..who is William Kristols Son In Law..And William Kristols ..Father....Irving
Kristol..is Called..."the God Father of Neo Conservatism". William Kristol..was a John McCain supporter..
Thus Fusion GPS..retained Nellie Ohr..(strangly..NO Wiki Profile) who apparently had to Use her husbnd Bruce Ohrs Clearances,,to
continue Her Collaberation with Fusion GPS..
By June 2016 the Strategy was to bring in Christopher Steele..who was know to Bruce Ohr back to 2006.. Strange.. NO early life
BIOS for Bruce or Nellie Ohr..
I wonder why AG Barr isn't forcing the FBI to comply sooner with Judge Boasberg's ruling to hand over unredacted Comey Memos
and Archey Declarations?
The Gateway Pundit item about the ridiculously unfair and unethical deals made in Hillary Clinton's email scandal investigation
is just further proof of how the Clinton taint infected the FBI. "Crooked" is a very apt epithet, that's for sure. I'd love to
know how much Bill and Hill raked in during her Sec'y. of State racketeering.
You say: "One point is clear--she uncovered no evidence implicating Trump working with the Russians, either thru Felix Sater or
one of the other "suspects" she exhaustively listed."
This is true, but it is also true that Nellie Ohr was working for a privately-owned firm that had employed her to make
false accusations about Trump's alleged connections to Russians in order to sabotage his presidency and lay the groundwork for
his impeachment.
They also hired foreign agent, Chris Steele to concoct a thoroughly-debunked dossier for the same purpose.
Can these people be charged with a crime or have we entered a new world of 'dirty tricks'???
... Examination of the Nellie Ohr documents given to the FBI shows some of her source material also came from former Ukrainian
presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko and a lawsuit she filed against Manafort.
Why is that significant? Tymoshenko and Hillary Clinton had a simpatico relationship after the former secretary of State
went out of her way in January 2013 to advocate for Tymoshenko's release from prison on corruption charges.
So, Bruce Ohr became a conduit of information not only for intelligence from Clinton's British opposition-researcher
but also from his wife's curation of evidence from a Clinton foreign ally and Manafort enemy inside Ukraine. Talk about foreign
influence in a U.S. election!
...
The tales of Bruce and Nellie Ohr, Christopher Steele, Yulia Tymoshenko, and those DEA and TSA agents raise a stark warning:
The lines between government officials and informants, unverified political dirt and real intelligence, personal interest
and law enforcement,
became too blurred for the Justice Department's own good.
The person responsible for securing the release of Yulia Tymoshenko was Chancellor Merkel. Further, that USA opposed Tymoshenko.
quote
As for one of the leaders of the war party in Kiev, Merkel has privately and publicly endorsed every claim of Yulia Tymoshenko,
promoting her release from prison and protecting her campaigns for war against Russia, even though – according to the high-level
German source – “they [Chancellery, Foreign Ministry] have known for years that [Tymoshenko] was a crook.”
endquote
There is a lot more detail Tymoshenko's corruption and Merkel's rescue here:
KIEV: Ukraine 's gas transport company
Ukrtransgaz has upgraded several gas pumping stations so it can provide gas to eastern and
southern regions of the country if there is a disruption in supply from Russia, the company
said on Wednesday.
More than a third of Russia's gas exports to the European Union cross
Ukraine, providing Kiev with valuable transit income.
Ukraine traditionally uses some of the gas pumped by Russia to European consumers for its
own needs in eastern and central regions and then compensates for this by deliveries from gas
storage located in the west of the country.
But the Russia-Ukraine gas transit agreement is due to expire in January and Ukrainian
energy authorities are worried that Moscow could stop gas supplies
through Ukraine, leaving some Ukrainian regions without gas in winter.
"As of today, Ukrtransgaz has implemented all the necessary technical and regulatory
solutions to create a reliable reverse scheme and it is ready for regular operation and can be
activated immediately if necessary," Uktransgaz said in a statement.
It said Ukraine had already reversed gas flows in 2009 when Russian gas giant Gazprom halted gas
supplies to Ukrainian consumers because of a price dispute.
Last month, Russian energy minister and several sources said Russia wanted to strike a
short-term deal with Kiev on gas transit to Europe when the current 10-year agreement expires
to buy time to complete pipelines that will bypass Ukraine.
But Kiev and its European allies want guarantees that Ukraine will remain a transit route
for Russian gas to Europe.
In January, European Commission Vice President Maros Sefcovic floated a proposal for the two
countries to agree a new 10-year transit contract, with a guaranteed minimum yearly transit
volume of 60 bcm and 30 bcm of additional flexibility.
Ukraine's energy firm Naftogaz said last month Kiev was still counting on Sefcovic's
proposal.
The potential for problems with the transit agreement, which brings Kiev around $3 billion
revenue per year, prompted Ukraine to increase its winter gas reserves by 18% compared with
last year to 20 billion cubic meters (bcm).
Naftogaz said this week Ukraine had stored 16.6 bcm of gas by Aug. 10, up from 13.38 bcm at
the same time last year.
Ukraine consumed 32.3 bcm of gas in 2018, 10.6 bcm of which was imported from European
markets outside Russia.
Relations between Kiev and Moscow plummeted after Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea
peninsula in 2014.
Ukraine halted its own purchases of Russian gas in 2015.
KIEV (Reuters) - Detectives from Ukraine's state investigation bureau have summoned former
president Petro Poroshenko for questioning, the bureau said on Thursday.
"We confirmed that he will be questioned," a bureau spokesman said. He declined to give a
reason for the questioning, which will take place on July 17. A spokeswoman for Poroshenko had
no comment but said one might be available later.
James, 26 days ago
I am in Ukraine every year and all people know that Poroshenko used the war to make money. He
created companies that were then used by the Government to buy military equipment and
everyone knows this and waited for the opportunity to have him voted out. Most people here
want only to have a stable government that works for the people, but president after
president they put their hope in has only turned out to become wealthy at the expense of the
people.
There is hope that the new president will enact "real" reforms and government
acquisition reform that gives all businesses an fair opportunity to compete for work.
Poroshenko never got rid of the corrupt judicial officials that enabled crooks to keep doing
what they were doing.
James, 26 days ago
One has to wonder which Western/NATO intelligence agency Poroshenko represented. It was not
for the benefit of representing Ukraine or Russia that is for sure.
Bamboo, 26 days ago
Gee. It looks like the USA has lost its puppet regime. Is Joe Biden's son still getting a
piece of the Ukrainian Pie?
Peter, 26 days ago
Here's a question for poroshenko. What happened to the millions the US gave him to help the
people of his country?
THE AMERICANO, 26 days ago
And a very nice arrest warrant will magically appear out of no where IF he shows up.
David, 26 days ago
I'm wondering if poroshenko was smart enough to request an american passport as a part of
compensation for pushing the country into the democracy?
26 days ago
Poroshenko is a failure of the West meddling in another country's affair for the sole purpose
of hurting Russia.
26 days ago
A person who led Ukraine to prosperity, fighter with corruption, liberator from Russia, and
he is being questioned? How come? :-) I hope you get the sarcasm.
"... Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo", his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and the seizure of power. ..."
"... In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the Euromaidan protests in 2014. ..."
"... I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it, what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor fired. ..."
Poroshenko has asked the US for help with criminal cases in the Ukraine, writes
media
05:31
MOSCOW, 1 Jul – RIA Novosti.The former President of the Ukraine Petro
Poroshenko is in Istanbul, where he has turned to American companies to lobby for protection
from criminal cases, reports "
Ukraine News " with reference to sources.
It has been noted that in the Ukraine changes have been made as regards the criminal
cases against Poroshenko. In particular, in May 2019, the former-president's lawyer Igor
Golovan stated that these criminal cases would not entail any legal consequences, but now
Poroshenko's entourage realizes that the criminal prosecution of the former president has
noticeably intensified and may have consequences.
Therefore, according to the newspaper, in Turkey Poroshenko has started to lobbying
U.S. companies, in particular, the BGR group, for assistance in resolving these
cases.
"He is well aware that everything that happens in the RRG (State Bureau of
investigation – trans. ed.) is taken very seriously, and he intends to defend himself
against attacks. He can, for example, be expecting public support in Washington if there is
an attempt made to arrest him", said the source.
In addition, the publication cites the words of Ukrainian political scientist Alexei
Yakubin, who has noted that Poroshenko could repeat the "Saakashvili scenario".
"For example, he'll leave for treatment in London, where part of his entourage has
entrenched itself. But this model complicates the public protection of his business assets
within the country, which assets might be seized", he said.
The case against Poroshenko
Poroshenko has previously been involved in eleven criminal cases, in particular, as regards
his abuse of power and his official position in the distribution of posts in "Tsentrenergo",
his treason in connection with the incident in the Kerch Strait, his usurpation of judicial
power and his misappropriation of the TV channel "Direct", his falsification of documents in
the formation of Deputy factions in 2016, and his illegal appointment of a government, and
the seizure of power.
In addition, as a witness, he was questioned about civilian deaths during the
Euromaidan protests in 2014.
Poroshenko himself, speaking at the party congress of "European Business", said that he
is responsible only before the Ukrainian people and is not afraid of persecution.
Quite right, old man; keep your chin up. I daresay they're staying in quite prestigious digs
in Istanbul, as befits visiting royalty. He seems to be labouring under a misapprehension
that he is valuable somehow to Washington, whereas that would only be true if Washington were
unwilling to work with Zelenskiy, and wanted him out of the way.
So far as I can see,
Washington is quite satisfied with Zelenskiy, while the people would not countenance a
Poroshenko return. So he's not really much use, is he? Especially if the USA wishes to
publicly support Zelenskiy's supposed battle with official corruption.
I could see them having a quiet word with Zelenskiy, maybe leave the old man out of it,
what do you say? But Washington is already accused – with substantial justification, I
would say – of running the show in Ukraine, and there are limits to how much obvious
interfering it can do; especially after Biden's bragging about getting the state prosecutor
fired.
Yes, I was sort of getting at the probability that Clan Poroshenko is just installed in a
very nice hotel. I doubt he will want to be plunking down money for an actual property so
long as the status of his assets still in Ukraine is still up in the air. I should imagine
the Ukrainian government will take steps, if it has not already, to prevent his simply
withdrawing their cash value.
The thing about the pindosi, though, is that they always hedge their bets .
I vangize that they will pressure Zel to pardon Porky. So that they have a spare.
I hope I am wrong, but I don't think I am.
I doubt it, simply because it would kick the timbers right out from under Zelenskiy's
anti-corruption platform, which is the issue on which he was voted in, and there would be no
way to do it under the radar. The Ukrainian people must be following Porky's flight with
great interest, and inferring that it means he has something to hide. Therefore an abrupt
discontinuing of the pursuit, and a refocusing elsewhere, would tell them accountability is
not attributed to the powerful and wealthy. Which is uhhh exactly the opposite of Zelenskiy's
message.
A person who led Ukraine to prosperity, fighter with corruption, liberator from Russia, and he is being questioned? How come?
:-) I hope you get the sarcasm.
Former president of
Ukraine Petro Poroshenko went to the United Arab Emirates and Germany together with his family.
The politician's family had to use two planes to leave the country.
It is known that ex-president's wife Marina left Kiev for Munich on July 23 together with
her daughters and younger son Mikhail. Petro Poroshenko himself flew on a charter flight from
Kiev to Istanbul along with his eldest son Alexei. According to Izvestia newspaper, the former
head of state then took a flight to Dubai with the same board.
Petro Poroshenko has citizenship of five countries despite the ban for Ukrainian citizens to
have dual citizenship. The ex-president got several identification documents for different
names back in 1996.
Patrick, this is a bit OT but I just watched this video from The Duran and wondered what your
thoughts are on Ukraine making peace with Russia.
Is Ukraine ready for a Russian reset? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lWOJIetDu4
(24 min)
The Duran's Alex Christoforou and Editor-in-Chief Alexander Mercouris discuss whether the
time has finally come for Ukraine to re-engage with Russia.
Can a sitcom actor turned President, Volodymyr Zelensky, find the courage to fight off
ultra right nationalist forces and the neocon US deep state, to be the man who brings peace
and sensibility to Ukraine, in relation to Russia?
------------------
It appears that most Ukrainian citizens want to make peace with Russia, and of course
there are the potentially devastating financial challenges the gov't has upcoming (a strong
incentive). But is that enough?
Thanks, I must have missed that post. Since the oligarchs still wield so much power in
Ukraine do you have any sense of how many of them want peace with Russia? I am curious what
percentage of the oligarchs support the US vs Russia vs neither/opportunist.
On the above article... it seems that the very sensible Russian defensive military mindset
is entirely too 'foreign' for the Borg to understand. Or perhaps they don't want to
understand because stirring up fear of Russia is of greater benefit to them in numerous
ways.
It appears that most Ukrainian citizens want to make peace with Russia
A bit more complicated than that. Some want just the absence of war, not necessarily
"peace" (whatever that means) with Russia. And then there are very many those shades of grey
after that. Ukraine did happen, did coalesce, as a political nation, however with a very
questionable expiration date, and there are very many flavors to this "peace with Russia" on
Ukrainian side. And then, of course, there is Russia's opinion and very many (I do not have
exact numbers), very very many, Russians simply do not want to deal with Ukraine and
Ukrainians at all. I, personally, don't see any improvement (again--what is a definition of
"improvement") between Russia and Ukraine, not least because Ukraine is controlled from the
outside. Here is an example of audacity on the West's (US) part to "represent" Ukraine.
I read that article too. Exceptionalism dies hard. Unironically this is part of their
"Realism & Restraint series"... had a good chuckle over that.
Your point about Russia not wanting to deal with the Ukraine at all makes a lot of sense
to me. What a hot mess that country is! Since Ukraine does not a strong central gov't, and
instead has many factions with different internal and external loyalties (esp. the US), then
who is there that can actually make a deal, stick to it and enforce it?
Possibly related, the interview of President Putin with Oliver Stone contains an interesting
statement by Putin, re Ukraine ... See the official transcript for context, and of course
there may be translation nuances -- transcript is from
Here is an excerpt (about one-third into transcript)...
"Vladimir Putin: The connection is that he [Medvedchuk] has his own ideas about Ukraine
and the Ukrainian people. For example, I believe that Russians and Ukrainians are actually
one people.
Oliver Stone: One people, two nations?
Vladimir Putin: One nation, in fact.
Oliver Stone: You think it is one nation?
Vladimir Putin: Of course. Look, when these lands that are now the core of Ukraine, joined
Russia, there were just three regions – Kiev, the Kiev region, northern and southern
regions – nobody thought themselves to be anything but Russians, because it was all
based on religious affiliation. They were all Orthodox and they considered themselves
Russians. They did not want to be part of the Catholic world, where Poland was dragging
them.
I understand very well that over the time the identity of this part of Russia
crystallized, and people have the right to determine their identity. But later this factor
was used to throw into imbalance the Russian Empire. But in fact, this is the same world
sharing the same history, same religion, traditions, and a wide range of ties, close family
ties among them.
At the same time, if a significant part of people who live in Ukraine today believe that
they should emphasise their identity and fight for it, no one in Russia would be against
this, including me. But, bearing in mind that we have many things in common, we can use this
as our competitive advantage during some form of integration; it is obvious. However, the
current government clearly doesn't want this. I believe that in the end common sense will
prevail, and we will finally arrive at the conclusion I have mentioned: rapprochement is
inevitable."
Is the third Maydan possible? I think yes... Impoverished population is an easy target for any color revolution.
Notable quotes:
"... The 2004 run-off election for the president of the Ukraine was won by Viktor Yanukovych. The U.S. disliked the result. Its proxies in Ukraine alleged fraud and instigated a color revolution. As a result of the 'Orange Revolution' the vote was re-run and the other candidate, Viktor Yushchenko, was declared the winner. But five years later another vote defeated the U.S. camp. Yanukovych was declared the winner and became president. ..."
"... Much of Ukraine's industry depends on Russia and Russian gas was offered to the Ukraine for less than the international market price. Yanukovych, who originally wanted to sign the EU association, had no choice but to refuse it, and to take the much better deal Russia offered. ..."
"... Militarily trained youth from Galicia in the west Ukraine was bused into Kiev to occupy the central Maidan place and to violently fight the police. Snipers from Georgia were brought in to fire on both sides. It was then falsely alleged that government forces were killing the 'peaceful protesters'. ..."
"... After some illegal political maneuvers new elections were called up and the oligarch Petro Poroshenko, bought off by the 'west', was declared the winner. The unreconstructed fascists from Galicia took over. The population in the industrial heartland in east Ukraine, next to Russia's border, revolted against the new rulers. A civil war, not a 'Russian invasion' , ensued which the Ukrainian government largely lost. Lugansk and Donbas became rebel controlled statelets which depend of Russia. Russia took back Crimea, which in 1954 had been illegally gifted to Ukraine by then Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, himself a Ukrainian. ..."
"... The oligarchs continue their plunder. Everything of value gets sold off to EU countries. The U.S. is allowed to build bases. Corruption, already endemic, further increased. The people came to despise Poroshenko. ..."
"... One can watch the full story of the above in UKRAINE ON FIRE - The Real Story (vid), a just released 90 minutes long Oliver Stone documentary. An updated version of the documentary was supposed to run on the Ukraine TV station of pro-Russian oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk. The TV stations was forced to cancel it after right-wing groups mortared its its building in Kiev. ..."
"... The April run-off vote between Zelensky and Poroshenko was a disaster for the later. Zelensky received 73% of the votes. The only districts where Poroshenko won were in Galicia, where the descendants of the fascist who fought in World War II on the Nazi side still follow their forefathers ideology. ..."
"... Some allege that Zelensky is under influence of the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky. But so far there is little evidence to provide that. ..."
"... The party which came in second is pro-Russian and won the majority vote in the east. It is controlled by Viktor Medvedchuk. Oliver Stone, in his recent interview with Vladimir Putin , discusses Medvedchuk's position on nationality with the Russian president. ..."
"... The country depends to a large part on Russian energy sources but has no money to pay for them. When the new Nord Stream II pipeline between Russia and Germany comes online the current old pipeline through the Ukraine will no longer be needed. The Ukraine will have lost a pressure point that it often used to blackmail Russia for cheaper gas. Zelensky will have to make concessions to Russia, or the Ukraine will have to accept the full market price which it can not pay. ..."
"... Shortly after Zelensky was elected as president, 'western' paid 'civil society' groups issued a joint statement threatening a "third Maidan": ..."
"... delaying, sabotaging, or rejecting the strategic course for EU and NATO membership; reducing political dialogue and destroying bilateral institutional mechanisms for cooperation with European and Euro-Atlantic partners ..."
"... The statement is signed by dozens of Soros, Omidyar, CIA and NATO funded organizations. ..."
"... Sure enough one of the signatories is "NGO 'CentreUA'" -- same NGO, funded by Omidyar, Soros, USAID, that organized Maidan revolution. That's like a gun pointed at Zelensky's head. Outrageous. ..."
"... Zelensky was elected by 75% of Ukrainians. Who the fuck elected Pierre Omidyar, George Soros, USAID, National Endowment for Democracy -- and their "civil society" satraps -- to supersede Ukraine's democracy? ..."
"... This movement is dubbed "The 25%," after their support for Poroshenko's failed reelection. Backers include allies from his party list: outgoing speaker of parliament Andriy Parubiy and state historian Volodymyr Vyatrovych -- controversial nationalists who heroize figures implicated in the Holocaust as freedom fighters for independence from the Soviet Union. Parubiy takes credit for leading other Maidans. He and Vyatrovych are evangelists of "national liberation" and "national revolution" against Russian imperialism. ..."
"... If there is a third Maidan, Ukraine's far right will lead it. Debunking Kremlin propaganda about Ukraine overrun by a fascist junta would grow even more difficult. It would also delight Moscow and further destabilize Kyiv – which is the opposite of what the West is supposed to be doing there. ..."
"... Zelensky is a new guy without any tail moving into a poisonous and dangerous area without allies (other than the voters of course, but how many guns do they have?) ..."
"... But you're absolutely correct to see this as the voters rejecting a "colour revolution" imposed from outside ..."
"... in the end, it is the same type of oligarchs, deep state that really have the final say in Ukraine. ..."
"... Lawsuits against Poroshenko have been started. What happens depends on how much loyalty Poroshenko can buy versus that bought by Kolomoisky. ..."
"... Kolomoisky will be looking for alternative sources of loot (eg reconstruction funds) which will only happen if the Donbass situation is wound down. ..."
"... To empire they represent outposts to challenge the adjoining countries that are not part of empire.. look at Puerto Rico. Empire favored it and even paid for citizens to go to college free.....until it didn't work to help make Cuba look bad....and so now it is being discarded like a dirty rag. ..."
"... The Gordian knot in Ukraine is that, after Maidan, the Ukrainian Armed Forces essentially dissolved. The neonazi militias then became the only enforcing power for whatever was left of the Ukrainian government -- that's why Poroshenko, albeit elected, could do nothing to stop those militias from doing whatever they pleased (even though he not being a neonazi himself). ..."
"... Ukraine's economy is in absolute tatters. The Ukrainian government just didn't completely dissolve after Maidan because the USA is using the IMF to artificially keep it afloat (which goes completely against the IMF chart, as was the case with Macri's Argentina, where even the legal borrowing limits were extrapolated by a more than 100% margin). Russia just needs to wait. ..."
"... The issue with the association agreement offered by the EU was not just that it offered little. As I recall it meant access for all EU products to the post-Soviet trading block. There would be nothing to prevent EU exporting anything through Ukraine into Russia. ..."
"... For newcomers, here is the TC-18-01, the American manual for Unconventional Warfare (published in 2010; leaked in 2012): Training">https://nsnbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/special-forces-uw-tc-18-01.pdf">Training Circular No. 18-01: Special Forces Unconventional Warfare. For the color revolution manual, see Gene Sharp's famous book (From Dictatorship to Democracy, 1994). When used at the same time in the same place, they form what Korybko calls Hybrid Warfare (see his book). ..."
"... "Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?" They aren't, Jackrabbit. Grow up, for Christ's sake, and put these cheap racist cracks behind you. Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. God willing that is now going to change. ..."
"... The very fundamental principles of peace, understanding and cooperation of EU was betrayed by their President Baroso. When you add that to the financial rape of Greece by Goldman Sachs & co on his watch, one should think he deserved being executed for high treason! Civil war in Ukraine & and looting of the people of Greece... But guess what...,He went directly from EU to .. GOLDMAN SACHS! ..."
"... It is quite complicated. For example, Zelensky himself had to brush up on his Ukrainian to be able to run a campaign, which he managed to do with his talents and scripts. ..."
The Ukraine, translated as 'the borderlands, lies between core Russia and the Europe's
western states. It is a split country. Half the population speaks Russian as its first
language. The industrialized center, east and south are culturally orthodox Russians. Some of
its rural western parts were attached to the Ukraine only after World War II. They have
historically a different culture.
The U.S., supported by the EU, used this split - twice - to instigate 'revolutions' that
were supposed to bring the Ukraine onto a 'western' course. Both attempts were defeated when
the Ukrainians had the chance of a free vote.
The 2004 run-off election for the president of the Ukraine was won by Viktor Yanukovych. The
U.S. disliked the result. Its proxies in Ukraine alleged fraud and instigated a color
revolution. As a result of the 'Orange Revolution' the vote was re-run and the other candidate,
Viktor Yushchenko, was declared the winner. But five years later another vote defeated the U.S.
camp. Yanukovych was declared the winner and became president.
In 2014 the European Union made an attempt to bind the Ukraine to its side through an
association agreement. But what the EU offered to Ukraine was paltry and Russia countered it.
Unlike the Ukraine, which continues to get robbed by its oligarchs ever since its 1991
independence, Russia was economically back and in a much better position. It offered billions
in investments and long term loans. Much of Ukraine's industry depends on Russia and Russian
gas was offered to the Ukraine for less than the international market price. Yanukovych, who
originally wanted to sign the EU association, had no choice but to refuse it, and to take the
much better deal Russia offered.
The U.S. and the EU intervened. They again launched a color revolution, but this time it was
one that would use force. Militarily trained youth from Galicia in the west Ukraine was bused
into Kiev to occupy the central Maidan place and to violently fight the police. Snipers from
Georgia were brought in to fire on both sides. It was then falsely
alleged that government forces were killing the 'peaceful protesters'.
Yanukovych lost his nerves and fled to Russia. After some illegal
political maneuvers new elections were called up and the oligarch Petro Poroshenko, bought
off by the 'west', was declared the winner. The unreconstructed fascists from Galicia took
over. The population in the industrial heartland in east Ukraine, next to Russia's border,
revolted against the new rulers. A civil war, not a 'Russian
invasion' , ensued which the Ukrainian government largely lost. Lugansk and Donbas became
rebel controlled statelets which depend of Russia. Russia took back Crimea, which in 1954 had
been illegally gifted to Ukraine by then Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, himself a
Ukrainian.
To end the war in the east Ukraine, the French, German and Russian leaders pressed
Poroshenko to sign a peace agreement with the eastern leaders. But the Minsk agreement was seen
as a political defeat and Poroshenko never implemented it. The war in the east simmered on ever
since. The extreme right-wing politicians, who gained notoriety after the Maidan coup,
prohibited the use of the Russian language which more than 50% of the Ukrainians speak. All
opposition was harshly suppressed.
The oligarchs continue their plunder. Everything of value gets sold off to EU countries. The
U.S. is allowed to build bases. Corruption, already endemic, further increased. The people came
to despise Poroshenko.
In an attempt to regain support, Poroshenko
launched a military provocation in the Kerch Strait which is under Russian control. The
stunt
was too obvious . Russia nabbed the sailors Poroshenko had send and confiscated their
boats. No one came to Poroshenko's help.
One can watch the full story of the above in UKRAINE ON FIRE - The Real Story (vid), a
just released 90 minutes long Oliver Stone documentary. An updated version of the documentary
was supposed to run on the Ukraine TV station of pro-Russian oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk. The TV
stations was
forced to cancel it after right-wing groups mortared its its building in Kiev.
On March 31 new elections were held. Volodymyr Zelensky, a TV comedian who played a teacher
who accidentally became president, won the first round. Zelensky is of Jewish heritage and from
the east Ukraine. He speaks Russian, not Ukrainian.
The April run-off vote between Zelensky and Poroshenko was a disaster for the later.
Zelensky received 73% of the votes. The only districts where Poroshenko won were in Galicia,
where the descendants of the fascist who fought in World War II on the Nazi side still follow
their forefathers ideology.
Zelensky wants to end the war in the east. He plans to work for better relations with
Russia. His main domestic promise is to end the corruption throughout the government. But the
parliament, still under control of the Maidan fascists, opposed him. Zelensky relieved the
parliament and called for early elections. They were held yesterday and the results are now
in.
Zelensky's party, named after his former TV show 'The Servant of the People', put forward
mostly fresh, untainted candidates. It won by a large margin. It will have more than 50% of the
450 parliament seats. The prominent fascists lost.
The 2004 Orange Revolution was defeated by the 2009 election. The 2014 Maidan coup was
defeated by the 2019 election. Evidently the revolution and coup plotters did not represent the
people. But the Ukraine is still the Ukraine and unless someone defeats the oligarchs further
intrigues are likely to happen.
Some allege that Zelensky is under influence of the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky. But so far
there is little evidence to provide that.
The party which came in second is pro-Russian and won the majority vote in the east. It is
controlled by Viktor Medvedchuk. Oliver Stone, in his recent interview with Vladimir Putin
, discusses Medvedchuk's position on nationality with the Russian president. Putin rejects Medvedchuk claim that Russians in Ukraine belong to a Ukrainian nation. He sees all Russian
people as part of one nationality.
Peter Porosheko and Yulia Tymoshenko lead the parties on the third and fourth place. They
are themselves oligarchs. The populist Vakarchuk in the fifth place is backed by billionaire
Viktor Pinchuk, the son-in-law of ex-President Leonid Kuchma.
The Ukraine can not economically survive without good relations with Russia. The country
depends to a large part on Russian energy sources but has no money to pay for them. When the
new Nord Stream II pipeline between Russia and Germany comes online the current old pipeline
through the Ukraine will no longer be needed. The Ukraine will have lost a pressure point that
it often used to blackmail Russia for cheaper gas. Zelensky will have to make concessions to
Russia, or the Ukraine will have to accept the full market price which it can not pay.
Zelensky will likely try to move the country back to a balanced positions between the 'west'
and Russia. With the large mandate he got and a secure majority in parliament he should have
all the necessary means to achieve that.
But the 'west' is unlikely to let him do that. The U.S.
wants to designate the Ukraine as a "major non-NATO ally" and use it against Russia.
Shortly after Zelensky was elected as president, 'western' paid 'civil society' groups
issued a joint statement
threatening a "third Maidan":
As civil society activists, we present a list of "red lines not to be crossed". Should the
President cross these red lines, such actions will inevitably lead to political instability
in our country and the deterioration of international relations:
... Foreign Policy Issues:
delaying, sabotaging, or rejecting the strategic course for EU and NATO membership;
reducing political dialogue and destroying bilateral institutional mechanisms for
cooperation with European and Euro-Atlantic partners
initiating any actions that might contribute to the reduction or lifting of sanctions
against the aggressor state by Ukraine's international partners
attempting to review any actions aimed at supporting international solidarity for
Ukraine, restoring our territorial integrity, guaranteeing security and protecting the
rights of all persons that have suffered from Russian aggression
... National Identity: Language, Education, Culture
attempting to review the language law
attempting to review the law on education
attempting to review the law on de-communization and condemnation of totalitarian
crimes of the past
implementing any actions aimed at undermining or discrediting the Orthodox Church of
Ukraine or supporting the Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine
...
The statement is signed by dozens of Soros, Omidyar, CIA and NATO funded organizations.
Sure enough one of the signatories is "NGO 'CentreUA'" -- same NGO, funded by Omidyar,
Soros, USAID, that organized Maidan revolution. That's like a gun pointed at Zelensky's head.
Outrageous.
Zelensky was elected by 75% of Ukrainians. Who the fuck elected Pierre Omidyar, George
Soros, USAID, National Endowment for Democracy -- and their "civil society" satraps -- to
supersede Ukraine's democracy?
How can Ukraine prevent pro-Russian politics if voters prefer it? Another revolution, duh.
This movement is dubbed "The 25%," after their support for Poroshenko's failed reelection.
Backers include allies from his party list: outgoing speaker of parliament Andriy Parubiy and
state historian Volodymyr Vyatrovych -- controversial nationalists who heroize figures
implicated in the Holocaust as freedom fighters for independence from the Soviet Union.
Parubiy takes credit for leading other Maidans. He and Vyatrovych are evangelists of
"national liberation" and "national revolution" against Russian imperialism.
If there is a third Maidan, Ukraine's far right will lead it. Debunking Kremlin propaganda
about Ukraine overrun by a fascist junta would grow even more difficult. It would also
delight Moscow and further destabilize Kyiv – which is the opposite of what the West is
supposed to be doing there.
One hopes that Zelensky is smart enough to foresee a "third Maidan". He should kick out all
of them from the police and other forces. He should also raise the police pay. He will need
their loyalty sooner than he might think.
Posted by b on July 22, 2019 at 18:37 UTC | Permalink
An admirable summary.
What's next? There are three causes for cautious optimism
1. The elections were actually allowed to happen without Washington's interference; see 2
2. I doubt that Trump cares about Ukraine so the main supporter of the coup is not
interested
3. EU has its own problems.
But Zelensky is a new guy without any tail moving into a poisonous and dangerous area
without allies (other than the voters of course, but how many guns do they have?)
But you're absolutely correct to see this as the voters rejecting a "colour
revolution" imposed from outside
Fine work here, Bernhard. Analysis as clear and cool as a mountain stream.
And now for the march of the Fascists led by the Iron Maidan of Galicia, Chrystia Freeland
employing all Canada's power and credibility to restore the Galician Nazis from whose loins
she came.
Excellent review b, thanks! With the political sea change, Ukraine has an opportunity to
progress, but somehow those pushing and believing their false narrative will need to be
neutralized. It appears the best way forward is to implement the Minsk2 agreements and go
forward from there.
Zelensky didn't 'accidentally' become president. He is a front for Kolomoisky who, amongst
other things, wants revenge on Poroshenko. Kolomoisky had vaste swathes of property
confiscated under Poroshenko. These were all returned a short while back. Kolomoisky probably
wants to dump all post-Maidan stuff on Poroshenko, especially MH17 (which Kolomoisky stated
to be 'a trifle' and 'the wrong plane was hit'). Lawsuits against Poroshenko have been
started. What happens depends on how much loyalty Poroshenko can buy versus that bought by Kolomoisky.
Kolomoisky will be looking for alternative sources of loot (eg reconstruction funds) which
will only happen if the Donbass situation is wound down. Zelensky has unexpectedly announced
that there will be a political solution to the issue of Russian sailors captured before the
Kerch incident (and one factor in Russia's response to it) in exchange for those held in
Russia. For all this to happen, the neo-Nazis will have to be defused, which may not be as
difficult as it would appear as they are funded and orchestrated by the Ukraine
oligarchs.
Helmer on Kolomoisky and the vast money stolen with collaboration of Lagarde and Clintons,
and the resulting suit, which appears to be aimed at keeping Zelensky on the reservation...
"A new Delaware state court filing a month ago, triggering new US media reports, appears
to signal a shift in US Government policy towards Kolomoisky. Or else, as some Ukrainian
policy experts believe, it is a move by US officials to put pressure on the new Ukrainian
President, Volodymyr Zelensky, whom Kolomoisky supported in his successful election campaign
to replace Poroshenko."
It is interesting to read commenters not understanding the concept of colonial outposts
like HK, SK, Japan and the attempts to make the Ukraine such.
To empire they represent outposts to challenge the adjoining countries that are not part
of empire..
look at Puerto Rico. Empire favored it and even paid for citizens to go to college
free.....until it didn't work to help make Cuba look bad....and so now it is being discarded
like a dirty rag.
Ukraine needed to get out of the rut it has been in and look forward somehow, even if there
are no great changes that happen in the country, much of the previous political heaviness
seem gone, for now at least. It should be a good difference. Thanks for the report.
The Gordian knot in Ukraine is that, after Maidan, the Ukrainian Armed Forces essentially
dissolved. The neonazi militias then became the only enforcing power for whatever was left of
the Ukrainian government -- that's why Poroshenko, albeit elected, could do nothing to stop
those militias from doing whatever they pleased (even though he not being a neonazi himself).
Zelensky will have the same problem: he can pass how much bills he wants -- only those who
the neonazi militias want to be implemented will be enforced. He needs to assemble a brand
new Armed Forces -- with amateur volunteers if necessary -- if he wants to survive: his
Jewish origin alone is already a death certificate for him in the eyes of the neonazis.
The other ace Zelensky has in his hand is the Donbass (Lughansk + Donestk). Those happen
to be the most pro-Russian provinces and also, by far, the two most rich and industrialized
ones. To make things even better, they also happen to be the two provinces that border with
Russia. This peculiar geopolitic configuration is a gift of destiny that, for example,
Brazil, didn't have.
Ukraine's economy is in absolute tatters. The Ukrainian government just didn't completely
dissolve after Maidan because the USA is using the IMF to artificially keep it afloat (which
goes completely against the IMF chart, as was the case with Macri's Argentina, where even the
legal borrowing limits were extrapolated by a more than 100% margin). Russia just needs to
wait.
Note: as for the toppled Lenin statues. Please, continue: in one of his birthdays, the
Soviet population made a mass homage to him, gathering in the Red Square and writting him
poems. He was very embarrassed and hated it -- his rationalization was that the Revolution's
main actor was the poeple, not him, and that personality cult was the wrong way to perceive
reality of the times.
Good stuff.
2 quibbles. Irrespective of evidence, this is Ukraine, and Kolomoisky's influence on Zelensky
can safely be assumed.
The issue with the association agreement offered by the EU was not just that it offered
little. As I recall it meant access for all EU products to the post-Soviet trading block.
There would be nothing to prevent EU exporting anything through Ukraine into Russia. This is
why the Russians expected to be part of a negotiating group, and why eventually Yanukovych
belatedly realised that EU association would lead direct to dissociation with ex-Soviet
trading partners and an economic catastrophe for Ukraine. Not so much Russia dissuading Kiev
as Kiev taking an inordinate length of time to realise the blatantly obvious.
Needless to say, Yanukovych's real options have never been discussed much, and Russia has
been blamed for the EU's Economic trap.
Thing is, in Ukraine as much as in the US, EU, India, or wherever: For a Politician to make a
campaign for a high political position, let alone the highest, one NEEDS Money.
And where is a someone financing a politician, they make themselves vurnable. Thats the
nature of it: No one will give you even a penny, let alone dozens of millions of dollars, if
not for something in return.
So someone HAS to put the money into him, and Kolomoisky is reported not only by NATO, but by
Russian sources too.
Why do i say this? Because i want to have my point that everyone is corrupt, and the world
is dystopia. No, not today:
It is because those "civil organisations" already hinted, that they use Kolomoisky's
financing as the attack vector, should the Ukraine dare to stray off from NATO course.
They said something of the likes of: "We heard of the allegations that Kolomoisky is
having him in his pocket, and we always want to ensure that politics are not corrupted, so we
will watch it". They said that AFAIK some days before the recent threath, so maybe there has
been some signs he does not want to play ball with NATO.
But we will see.. With the US you never know, even more with Donald and his best buddy
neocons.
b says: "The Ukraine can not economically survive without good relations with Russia."
That is true, but what does Ukraine have to offer Russia? Aside from putting some space
between Russia and NATO, what is left of Ukraine after all of this that they can offer? The
Soviet Union built up a large amount of high tech and high value industry in Ukraine, but
most of that has rusted away since 1991. Russia has found or developed new sources for most
of what they previously bought from Ukraine, and those sources are domestic so Russia is
unlikely to trade them in for products made from neglected and mostly defunct Ukrainian
industries.
Ukraine can go crawling back home to Russia (home being the place where they take you back
in even after you've been a total jerk), but there will be no massive bailout and magical
recovery. Eastern Ukraine will benefit from a peace dividend, but western Ukraine will have
to be satisfied with European sex tourism, with Lvov remaining the gay prostitute capital of
the continent.
@B: One Correction if i see it right: I think linked Documentary "Ukraine on fire" is NOT the
new one, he already made a doc about Ukraine some time ago, and this is it.
The new one is Not released yet, i mean the one with the Interview you posted few days ago.
Sorry, last post: Please barflies, for those you want to support those documentarys, vote for
them on IMDB and write reviews if you saw them. They are being attacked from NATO bots and
voted down to C-Movie level. If you dont want BS like Fast & Furious have better ranking
as those anti-mainstream docs, please take your time and support them!
They are pretty much the only documentarys in mainstream US media that tell the other side!
I'm expecting Zelensky to be more skillful at playing a crowd than the forces aligned against
him. When Boris becomes UK PM, that'll make 3 countries, including the US, with a comedian as
leader. If Boris doesn't betray The People then the trend will probably continue. People are
sick of 'sincere professional' (easy to bribe) politicians.
That Ukraine has to be considered as both a bridge and a no alliance's land between the West
and Russia has always been a no-brainer to me. One that should be imposed from outside if
necessary, if some Ukrainians are foolish enough to pick a side - and, considering its
geographical position, specially if some Ukrainians people want to move "West" full speed
ahead, because the border with Russia will always be there.
As for Zelensky, he has the backing of the people, such a backing that a 3rd colour
revolution would be immediately opposed by a bigger counter-manifestation. Besides, he should
seek the backing of the rank and file of the Ukrainian army, just in case things go very
badly with the fascists; considering his vast support among the people, the upper echelons of
the military might not like or follow him, but if he gives orders, the core troopers would.
For example, I believe that Russians and Ukrainians are actually one people.
Putin adds that it's inevitable that Ukraine will eventually return to good relations with
Russia.
Look, when these lands that are now the core of Ukraine, joined Russia, there were just
three regions – Kiev, the Kiev region, northern and southern regions – nobody
thought themselves to be anything but Russians, because it was all based on religious
affiliation. They were all Orthodox and they considered themselves Russians. They did not
want to be part of the Catholic world, where Poland was dragging them.
Putin is correct, as usual. He is playing the Long Game, just as China has done with Hong
Kong and continues to do with Taiwan.
The empire always uses divide and rule. But in the end, empires always bite the dust.
"Revealing Ukraine" documentary aka "В борьбе
за Украину" (which includes the
interview in Kremlin released 19 July, minus the Skirpal comments) was released in Ukrainian
and Russian, 17, 19 July
b said;"One hopes that Zelensky is smart enough to foresee a "third Maidan". He should kick
out all of them from the police and other forces. He should also raise the police pay. He
will need their loyalty sooner than he might think."
We'll all hope for the Zelensky people to salvage some sanity from another round of the
empire's attacks. They'll never relent.
One would hope the Stone documentary would be seen here, in the U$A, but that's a distant
dream. Should at least be on PBS, but, I doubt it.
As always b, thanks for the therapy, and historical background...
For newcomers, here is the TC-18-01, the American manual for Unconventional Warfare
(published in 2010; leaked in 2012):
Training">https://nsnbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/special-forces-uw-tc-18-01.pdf">Training
Circular No. 18-01: Special Forces Unconventional Warfare. For the color revolution manual, see Gene Sharp's famous book (From Dictatorship to
Democracy, 1994). When used at the same time in the same place, they form what Korybko calls Hybrid Warfare
(see his book).
@David Park #21
The Holodomor was real, but then again, so were Stalin's purges in that same era (a little
later) and Stalin's ethnic forced migrations from 1930 to 1949.
While this doesn't excuse these acts, people should keep in mind that the Soviet Union was
under tremendous external and internal pressure at the time. Acts of economic warfare tend to
be poorly documented in history - for example, China's famines in the 1960s were exacerbated
by a US embargo on wheat imports to China.
Ultimately, however, the main reason the Western Ukrainians don't like Russia is because
they've always believed Ukraine should be a nation in its own right. The large contingent of
Ukrainians in Canada, for example and including its present foreign minister, were fighting
for the Germans against Russia in World War 2 under
the SS , no less.
The comedians for leadership idea should have been pushed long ago. The US has a few.
Unfortunately George Carlin has passed. And I recall Pat Paulsen ran in 1968 but mostly as
satire. As to mainstream comedians who now inhabit MSM late night, they would most likely
cater to the Soros-DEM political side.
Clueless Joe 19
I had always thought Ukraine's best play was as a land bridge neutral between EU/NATO and
Russia and therefore reap the benefits of trade with both.
Some allege that Zelensky is under influence of the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky. But so far
there is little evidence to provide that.... Zelensky will likely try to move the country
back to a balanced positions between the 'west' and Russia.
There's reason to be skeptical.
Nuland (Jewish) picks Yats (rumored to be Jewish). Yats is succeeded by Groysman (Jewish).
President Poroschenko (Jewish) is succeeded by Zelinski (Jewish).
Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country? I'll
bet it's because Jewish support for integration with the West is very strong.
"Yats is the guy" ... until he isn't but will the new guy bring real change or just
pretend to?
Not just a bridge between Russia and the EU, the natural partnership that the US really
fears, but, look at the geography, it is the natural entry point into Europe for the new Silk
Road from China. Pre 2014 the Chinese were attracted by the opportunity of a deep water port
in Crimea, the sea is too shallow into Ukraine proper.
"Nevertheless, in these discussions there is never a mention of the Ukrainian Holodomor of
1932-1933 that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians..."
The 'Holodomor' was not real. No such event occurred. There was no intention of starving
Ukrainians, on the part of the CPSU. In fact most of the Soviet Union suffered from famines
in these years, some regions much more than Ukraine. The causes of the famine were largely
economic sanctions.
It is quite true that the Collectivisation campaigns were, in many ways disastrous, and
carried out with great violence. But the Holodomor myth, invented by Nazi collaborators after
1945 and based on Goebbels's propaganda is Cold War anti-communist hate propaganda of the
worst kind.
Wikipedia is extremely unreliable on matters such as this.
2.As to comedians running governments Hoarsewhisperer, don't forget Italy.
3. What Ukraine has to offer, William Gruff, if the Biden clan has not stolen it, is some
of the best agricultural land in the temperate world. At a time in which the USA's ability to
dump grain on the world market is being employed to conduct terrorist economic warfare
against disobedient countries, the surpluses Ukraine could make available are of cardinal
importance. Then there is the matter of saving those lands from the scourges of American
agriculture-GMOs, Roundup et al.
" The large contingent of Ukrainians in Canada, for example and including its present foreign
minister, were fighting for the Germans against Russia in World War 2 under the SS, no
less."
c1ue@26
This is certainly true: the survivors of the 14th Waffen SS Galicia Division and their
dependents, hangers on and sundry war criminals on the lam certainly came to Canada where
they sold their votes en bloc to the Federal Liberal Party. In Alberta they came to control
inter alia the University of Alberta.
But long before these people came over immigration from Ukraine, including Mennonites,
brought their traditional skills and agricultural knowledge to, most notably the Prairies.
They knew about growing wheat in the climatic conditions here.
They also brought traditions of collective organisation-they tended to be very left wing,
co-operators and were among the founders of the Communist Party and the CCF. It was with
great relish that the Liberal Party used the former (and lifelong) Nazis to saplit the
community post 1945.
"Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?"
They aren't, Jackrabbit. Grow up, for Christ's sake, and put these cheap racist cracks behind
you. Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. God willing that is now going to
change.
re "Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the
country?"
(a) Is it true that the population of Ukraine is .2% Jewish?
(b) Is it true that the .2% segment runs the country?
(c) Is it considered racist to ask why you find the two subject sentences indications of
racism?
Thanks for a great site!
However, for sake of good order, the EU association agreement proposal to Ukraine of Mr
Baroso, was presented and rejected by Janukovitch beginning of November 2013. ( not 2014).
The main reason, but never disclosed by our corporate press in the West, was the total
unacceptable ( hence fullty understandable) of an either/or demand choosing between EU and
Russia cooperation btw the lines, as well as an artcle about military cooperation. Which
ofcourse would also exclude Russian partnership. ... that set the stage the humble and
charming Mrs "Fuck EU" Nudelman and her cookies at Maidan square.
The very fundamental principles of peace, understanding and cooperation of EU was betrayed by
their President Baroso. When you add that to the financial rape of Greece by Goldman Sachs
& co on his watch, one should think he deserved being executed for high treason! Civil
war in Ukraine & and looting of the people of Greece... But guess what...,He went
directly from EU to .. GOLDMAN SACHS!
I appreciate that good concise timeline and explanation of what has happened in Ukraine. I
remember finding online a live 24/7 camera feed from Kiev during the Maidan coup, and the
fascination but horror of watching the western backed Right Sector thugs wearing neo-nazi
Wolfsangel insignias carry out atrocities in real time. I searched in vain a couple years
later to find the archives of these films. Does anyone know if they still exist? I suspect if
the filming was done by a coup-friendly Kiev TV station they will be kept under wraps unless
some viewer recorded them, as there is a lot of incriminating evidence which could be
exposed.
Watching what happened live and then following western media disinformation and outright
lies was the final slap in the face for me that the corporate media had finally given up any
pretenses of journalistic standards. Winter 2013/2014 it finally gasped its last breath and
the last nails were hammered into the coffin. From then on we've had non-stop blatantly false
narratives presented, with the nutty bogus Russiagate fiction now consuming three years(!) of
coverage.
Here's hoping the pendulum has swung and we'll reclaim some sanity. Current trends don't
favor this, however, and the US may go for the Samson option before conceding to a more
multi-polar world. A smart lady (my wife) says we need 10% of people to accept a new idea or
narrative before a critical mass can occur and it become the dominant narrative. The more
people who understand the issues MOA and others educate about gives us a chance of countering
the Empire's narrative control. Thanks to all for spreading the message and keep sharing with
your friends.
"Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?"
They aren't, Jackrabbit. Grow up, for Christ's sake, and put these cheap racist cracks
behind you. Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. God willing that is now
going to change.
No, he does not just say "Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they
running the country?". He says:
Nuland (Jewish) picks Yats (rumored to be Jewish). Yats is succeeded by Groysman (Jewish).
President Poroschenko (Jewish) is succeeded by Zelinski (Jewish).
Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?
I'll bet it's because Jewish support for integration with the West is very strong.
You can't ignore this "interesting" "fact" if it's the fact.
@21 and @26 - regarding the Holodomor, It is true. Millions of people did die, but from what
I can tell, it was a lot more complicated than how it is presented. Here's an article I found
on Counterpunch Holodomor
I am no specialist or anything, but I think the collectivization was a disaster and the war
on the kulaks didn't help anything, and that lead to the Holodomor which is more
genocide-porn used for the same purposes as a few other large scale killings I have heard
about - to make sure we never forget, and more importantly, we never really find out what
really happened, because it is S A C R E D.
I just finished an excellent book on the Ukraine crisis. Flight MH17, Ukraine and the New
Cold War by Kees Van Der Pijl. In the book he says that the Holodomor was used by the Reagan
administration in the second phase of the Cold War as a tool to demonize the Soviet Union.
Sound Familiar? The author says the second phase of the Cold War was launched when detente
was broken with the Soviet Union, any concessions made to domestic labor in the west was to
be dismantled and the goal was regime change in Moscow which happened in 1991. The author
really lays it out and explained the new, third phase of the Cold War which really kicked
into gear in Kiev in the winter or 2014. I found that to be very interesting. I had never
heard it put that way before.
I can't recommend the book enough.
I just started Frontline Ukraine by Sakwa.
Thank you, B and everyone in the MoA community. Please forgive any mistakes I may have made
in describing my interpretation of van Der Pijl's book.
thanks b.. excellent overview... i wish the folks well...
bevin, thanks for your many fine posts and commentary on canada, but i have to challenge
you on your response to jackrabbit..seems to me jackrabbit has a point... i am curious why
you dismiss it so quickly..
I think over 20% of Ukraine's population is "not Ukrainian".
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 22 2019 21:59 utc | 28
It is quite complicated. For example, Zelensky himself had to brush up on his Ukrainian to
be able to run a campaign, which he managed to do with his talents and scripts. His first
language is Russian, and ancestry... Khazarian? If I recall, he shares first language,
hometown and ancestry with Kolomoysky who was also his employer. What I am trying to say is
that national identification is fluid in this region. You may have Russian nationalists who
speak Ukrainian dialect at home, Ukrainian nationalists with rather incomplete knowledge of
"their language" and many other combinations. That said, Ukrainian is a separate language
that may be hard to understand by someone who knows only Polish or only Russian (but rather
intelligible if you know both).
Occasionally I follow news on RusNext.ru, a news site that seems to be run by Donbass
supporters who fluently translate from Ukrainian and, I guess, use Ukrainian words here and
there.
BTW, the history of Ukraine is quite complicated, including "Polish Conquest" that in
actuality happened as very complex cleaving and coalescing of fragmented states with key
dynasties leaving no descendants BOTH in Poland and the Kingdom of Halich thus leaving both
to the rule of a Hungarian king, to be later partitioned between his two daughters, while the
less populated part of Ukraine was taken over by Lithuanians who had hard time defending
their holdings from Tatars etc. After that, the polity of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
adopted Polish as the common language of nobility, so most of the "cruel Polish lords" that
Ukrainians fought with in 17th century were of Ruthenian (Russian?) origin, some claiming
descent from Rurik (i.e. from the common dynasty of Rus lands). Compare with Irish and
Scottish nobility adopting a Saxon-French mix as their vernacular (now known as English).
I was just discovering the importance of internet world news information when the Maidan
crisis unfolded, and many Ukrainians were putting photos and videos on various blogs about
the horrible events leading up to and following the coup. Russia has made huge strides since
- but we cannot forget that ordinary people who had the ability to send out information as it
happened were to be highly praised for doing so. It wasn't sophisticated, I remember in one
city in Donbass it was simply someone filming as he walked along the street, showing bodies
on the street corner, the official Ukraine military speeding through the streets - vivid
shots of buildings on fire, a protest by a woman with a toddler at a speechgiving occasion.
Unforgettable.
Ukraine should be proud of being the historic heart of Russia itself, the place where the
State began. That's what Putin is talking about, and even more than Crimea Kiev is the
historical homeland capital city for all Russians; it's part of their heritage. It's as if
separatists in the US got themselves embedded in New York City and declared their
independence of the rest of the country, being more aligned with Canada. (Oh, and everyone in
that northern area now had to speak French.)
Wikipedia
tells us that Jews are 0.2% of the population in Ukraine.
'Jewish' is not a race. It's a religion. Do you think that Israel is a country for
semetic people ? LOL. No, it's a theocracy.
Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire.
No. Ukraine is being run by it's West-leaning leadership and US/NATO is partnered with
that leadership. I'm suggesting that Jews are among the most reliably pro-Western people in
Ukraine. After all, the "Empire" that you refer to is known as the "Anglo-Zionist
Empire".
<> <> <> <> <> <>
Leads me to wonder if the State Department's recent global antisemitism efforts are mostly
aimed at Ukraine.
If Ukraine itself made such efforts/expenditures it might would draw a backlash from the
Ukrainian people. So the US does it and slyly declares it to be global so no one
notices that it's directed at certain countries (mostly Ukraine?) that have Jewish leadership
that's backed by US/NATO.
As part of the effort to take over Ukraine, US/NATO forged an anti-Russian alliance that
included the anti-Jewish extreme-right in Ukraine as described by
Ukraine and the "Politics of Anti-Semitism" (2014) :
The US and the EU are supporting the formation of a coalition government integrated by
Neo-Nazis which are directly involved in the repression of the Ukrainian Jewish
community.
. . .
Within the Western media, news coverage of the Neo-Nazi threat to the Jewish community in
Ukraine is a taboo. There is a complete media blackout: confirmed by Google News search ...
What is not mentioned is that these "radical elements" supported and financed by the West
are Neo-Nazis who are waging a hate campaign against Ukraine's Jewish community.
. . .
According to the JP [Jerusalem Post] , the issue is one of "transition", which will
be resolved once a new government is installed .
"Despite his [Likhashov's] optimism fear pervades the local Jewish community, as it
does the entire Ukraine, during the transition period."
No doubt Jews would not feel safe with rightists leading the government so arrangements
were made (Democracy Works! LOL). We can surmise that the US State Dept has now
formalized this with funding for a propaganda campaign that seeks to change their views
and/or political slush fund to ensure election of Jewish candidates to high office?
No one is disputing that famines occurred in Soviet Ukraine. These famines also occurred
in Belarus and Russia. The extent to which the harsh form of collectivisation institutioned
under Stalin contributed as opposed to climatic and other factors (Western sanctions, crop
destroying pests etc) is a matter for debate. Grover Furr argues the latter forcefully in
'Blood Lies' (2014). The term "Holodomor" refers to an intentional policy of genocide against
the "Ukrainian Nation" by evil Russians/Commies/Jews via intentional starvation. As bevin @32
points out, this concept originated in Nazi ideology. So yes, famine(s) occurred, but the
"Holodomor" did not.
As for the author of the Counterpunch piece, Louis Proyect, he is an imperial apologist of
the worst sort who delights in trolling any forum where anti-imperialists gather. If this
appears to be an Ad Hominum attack, I think you have to be human to be a victim of one of
those.
I also can't recommend the Van der Pijl book enough. Usually if I see a book recommended
by someone who also links to a Louis Proyect article I would avoid it like the plague, but
barflies please don't be discouraged! Van der Pijl is one of the premier exponents of
(non-sectarian) Marxist International Relations, if you've been put off reading Marxist
authors thanks to the likes of Proyect he is the perfect antidote. His "Global Rivalries -
From The Cold War to Iraq" (2007) is also excellent, I would recommend you track that down if
Sakwa has nothing much to add.
Global Research has an extract from "Flight MH17, Ukraine and the New Cold War" here:
Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Prime minister
. . .
He has played down his Jewish-Ukrainian origins , possibly because of the prevalence
of antisemitism in his party's western Ukraine heartland.
Yatsenyuk resigned in disgrace in April 2016 amid a massive corruption scandal that
first broke in February, when economy minister Aivaras Abromavicius stepped down,
complaining that the Yatsenyuk government was not genuinely committed to fighting
corruption .
One of the many corrupt projects was Yats' border wall, which critics have said
"wouldn't even stop a rabbit." LOL.
Great summary b.
Needed somebody to just spell it out.
I recall watching the 2014 crisis and civil war in real time. Felt WW-III was upon us.
Couldn't believe the outright lies of all Western media and was the straw that broke the back
of any remaining faith I had in NYT, The Guardian, BBC, ABC (Australian) etc.
The Odessa Massacre was biggest turning point for me.
Talking with friends something has shifted for the average Joe and Jane. In 2014, if I
presented evidence against the official Western Ninistry of Truth (yeah see the typo but
seems worth leaving) on Ukraine I'd get a righteous backlash and called a Putin apologist
etc. These days there's blank inward stare of cognitive dissonance, subtle agreement and
desire to change topic.
@21 David Park, @26 c1ue, @32 bevin, @34 Ghost Ship, @41 roza shanina, @54 Paora, @58 snake
My understanding is that of Paora and bevin; there were famines in the Soviet Union,
including in Ukraine. The Holodomor myth, if not started there, was massively
promoted in the 30s by ... drumroll ... the Hearst empire. That alone should
tell you something of its reliability. Proyect's piece is interesting, but it doesn't touch
on the Western creation of the "Holodomor," the myth itself of the Soviet
genocide aimed at Ukrainians.
Unfortunately, I'm unable right now to put my hands/keyboard on a good reference for this.
If I'm able to locate one, I'll put it in a comment in an open thread.
Note to snake: not 32 million, but around 5-7 million, probably laughable in itself. (A
reference I found for the Ukraine SSR in the 1930s indicates that the population
grew during the 1930-33 period, but that should probably be read with great
care. It would probably require a study in itself.)
* * * *
On another, but not entirely irrelevant matter, I've always found this wikipedia entry to
be vastly entertaining. It gives me a good chuckle to think of Ukrainization -- the promotion
of Ukrainian language and culture -- as a communist plot. (It's not a perfect analogy, but
it's close enough for a laugh, considering the present.) (And yes, I know it's wikipedia, but
their prejudices lean generally in the other direction.)
The extreme right-wing politicians, who gained notoriety after the Maidan coup, prohibited
the use of the Russian language which more than 50% of the Ukrainians speak.
That's a bald-faced lie. Russian is still spoken in large parts of Ukraine,
including Odessa. The main tourist attraction in Odessa, a beach community known as Arcadia,
still uses the Russian word at its entrance. Street signs are still in Russian. People speak
Russian.
The only thing is they made Ukrainian the official language. Everyone must learn it. It is
the same in Russia - everyone must learn Russian, even in Chechnya. It is in the nature of a
country to have a universal language whereby everyone in the country may communicate. There
is nothing whatsoever radical or even unusual about this.
Stop spreading hate and lies. This is utter nonsense.
As to Yanukovych, he was widely hated by everyone for his total corruption. Even Russians.
I lived in Ukraine at that time - mostly in Sevastopol, which was then 90+% Russian (and of
course now is part of Russia). Everybody hated him and thought he was utterly corrupt and
stole from the people. His thugs would literally walk into a private business with guns and
tell the owner "I am buying half your business for $50, here are the papers, sign them now".
That is how he operated. Of course they did not want the L'viv folks staging a coup, but the
hatred for the corrupt Yanukovych was truly national.
You don't do anyone any favors by publishing lies.
All those who say that Zelenski is a puppet or front for Kolomoiski should remember that a
certain VV Putin came to power as a puppet or front for Boris Berezovski. And we all know how
that (BB) ended. So let's hope for the best - can't get much worse anyway. And Zelenski seems
to have acted very smartly so far. Good luck to him - he'll need it!
It's my understanding that those Ukrainians who most fervently believe in the Holodomor (that
the Soviet govt under Joseph Stalin deliberately targeted ethnic Ukrainians with famine and
starvation) live in that part of the modern Ukraine that was under fascist Polish rule in the
1930s.
From my own reading, the famines of the early 1930s affected large parts of eastern
Ukraine across southen European Russia into Kazakhstan.
The issue though is not so much the details of what actually occurred then as in the
creation of a lie that deliberately equates Nazis with Soviets and thus Nazism with
Communism, and ultimately socialism. If Nazism led to the Holocaust, then Communism and
socialism must be demonstrated to have resulted in equally great horrors such as mass
famines, starvation or incarcerating people in concentration camps on the basis of their
religion. The current demonization of the Chinese govt over its supposed treatment of Falun
Gong followers or Uyghurs follows this pattern.
Great summary B.
Jackrabbit@29 " Jewish population of Ukraine is O.2 % of the whole! Why are they running the
country ?". I have been wondering the same thing. It is so obvious .
Bevin@32,33 " the founders of Communist Party " -Ukrainian Nazis in Canada are doing it ?
Utter nonsense. Bevin know little of history.
Holodomor in the 1932-33 in Ukraine led to CANNIBALISM, while the Bolshevics were selling
wheat to the West. ONE FORTH of the population died of starvation. Robert Conquest in his
1986 book "The Harvest of Sorrow" describes holodomor in detail.
Ukrainians were glad to help Germans . They greeted them as liberators from the Bolshevic
hell. They were on the German side of the war against the Soviet Union-not hard to
understand.
The surprise is in the Maidan events as described by E. Michael Jones, when the so called
Ukrainian Nazis worked hand in hand with Jewish participants to install JEWISH rule in
Ukraine.
Accusing b of "spreading hate and lies"? There's plenty of sources documenting the
Ukrainian laws passed since 2014 prohibiting or restricting Russian language in various
sectors, including official use, public education, even in films. b was correct in his
assessment, and I have no idea where the "hate" accusation came from. I would normally not
link to the awful Telegraph of UK, but I assume this story from just three months ago isn't
fake news.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/25/ukraine-passes-law-against-russian-language-official-settings/
> Yanukovych.... had no choice but to refuse [Deep and Comprehensive EuroAssociation]
But he did not.
He asked to amend it, to re-negotiate it.
He asked to add there compensation clause from EU to Ukrainian industries.
Russia also asked for it to be re-negotiated, but Russia wanted re-negotiation from
scratch into a trilateral treaty. Yanukovich only wanted money to support Ukrainian economic
until his re-election.
Bad for him, but money he asked for "coincidently" were the same, as money Europe promised
to Ukraine for removing of Nuclear weapon and Chernobyl nuclear power. When Ukraine delivered
and asked for money - the 2nd maidan (2004) happened and both Kuchma and his heir Yanukovich
flew down the drain. When Yanukovich was allowed to the throne in 2009 he conveniently forgot
about that story. But the moment he asked EU for money, albeit under pretext of Association
and markets, the 3rd maidan unleashed and Yanukovich went down the drain again. Guess, he had
to learn his lesson without repeats?..
> Not so much Russia dissuading Kiev as Kiev taking an inordinate length of time to
realise the blatantly obvious.
Posted by: Michael Droy | Jul 22 2019 20:03 utc | 12
Well, it took Russia to really START implementing trade inhibition, there were few rather
vibrant "scandals" in spring and summer 2014 with Russia banning this or that food/alcohol
form Ukraine, quoting safety hazards, to make Yanukovich understand this time it is for
real.
Most probably Yanukovich was like Saakashvili in 2008, totally programmed that "Russia
would not date" because "Russia is secretly ruled by Jews/NeoLibs/Washington/whatever".
Russia dared. And then Yanukovich understood he was not selected to be a hero bringing
Ukraine to Europe, but a scapegoat to absorb the fallout.
is biased also ? It isn't my argument at all, but I do understand that language is very
important in terms of identity. There is quite a lot of history in that article to take into
account, or argue over I suppose. As it is probably the "go to" reference for people outside
of the region wanting to understand the question of languages in Ukraine, its content is
relevant.
> I remember in one city in Donbass it was simply someone filming as he walked along the
street, showing bodies on the street corner, the official Ukraine military speeding through
the streets - vivid shots of buildings on fire
Posted by: juliania | Jul 23 2019 1:44 utc | 47
Most probably, Mariupol 2014-05-09
People wanted to celebrate V-Day, but "democratic" Oleg Lyashko and his "men in black"
drove in at attacked demonstration. Local police tried to protect citizens and was ambushed
in their own HQ (that very burning house), making last stand.
"In the 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election he led his party to win 22 seats."
"In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election Lyashko lost his parliamentary seat"
One may also look for Olena Bilozerka, 2013 German "best international blogger"
She is open and vocal part of Right Sector, though allegations were she is inflating
political issues to hide marauding issues.
She blogged back in 2014-02-16 about "next day" meeting of Right Sector representatives with
Merkel "to report about implementation of our part of agreement and to be informed by Merkel
about implementing her part" and regardless of "checking the watches" about armed assault
upon government on 18.02, which indeed happened and was success.
Being open and vocal Nazi she then published many photo and video that were "omitted" by free
world's free media.
This "how many people did Communism killed" question is tiresome.
As I've already commented here in previous posts, there are essentially three methods an
historian can determine if a genocide happened:
1) mass graves (this requires archaeology);
2) written contemporary accounts, and
3) census
In the "Holodomor" case, we only have "2", the most popular one in the West being that
Welsh journalist who travelled to the USSR that time and, based on anecdotal evidence,
"covered" the famine.
Wikipedia's article about the "Holodomor" only mentions one source mentioning concrete
numbers: Wheatcroft, a rather obscure Australian academic who, to his merit, at least made up
the effort to talk with people who had access to the Soviet archives.
The quoted list of his article clearly indicates Wheatcroft bases his numbers on indirect
data. He uses the 1937 census in relation to 1926; in another article, he uses the quantity
of grain stock in 1932. I could go on, but the important thing here is that this guy doesn't
use any extraordinary sources. He certainly didn't go to the Ukraine to do archaeology. The
Ukrainians themselves probably didn't do it either, because, so far, we have no accounts of
mass graves in the region.
Famines were common in the pre-industrial world. They occured often in the ancient world
-- where cities and villages literally disappeared in a matter of decades because of one bad
crop and/or one plague (plagues are a side-effect of sedentarism). The often occured in the
feudal world. They specially happened in tsarist Russia, which has a very peculiar and
hostile climate and land composition for agriculture (only 15% of the USSR's territory was
viable for agriculture even in the industrial era). They certainly are not a communist
invention. We must avoid the "Belle Époque syndrome", that is, adopt the illusion late
tsarist Russia was a paradise that was destroyed by evil Bolsheviks. Tsarist Russia was a
very brutal world, were peasants died like flies every day: Gogol (who lived in Ukrainian
territory) wrote a very funny and politically charged novel about it ("Dead Souls").
Wheatcroft uses the 1920s demographic tendency in order to infer "excess deaths" in the
USSR in 1932, but he misses the bigger picture: you have to take into account Russian
demographic movements in the long term, taking into consideration the cyclic famines. Just to
crop a short period from 1926-1932 is scientifically dishonest.
Yes, forced collectivization probably caused excess deaths in 1932 -- but it's impossible
to calculate how much more it caused in relation to a "normal" famine. Just because a famine
happened during the Soviet era doesn't mean it was caused 100% because of socialism. Constant
excess food production is a very recent phenomenon in human History, to state famines are the
exception and not the rule is contemporary bias.
It is very unlikely the 1932 famine was an extraordinary famine. The 1937 census
registered a population growth in relation to 1926. This alone discards genocide, because,
even though excess deaths ocurred (as is the rule in famines), that meant women still had
time and resources to biologically reproduce above the population replacement levels. Worst
case scenario, this growth happened because birth rates were excessive in the urban areas at
the expense of the rural areas -- an unlikely scenario, since in this case, we would register
mass migration from the rural area to the urban area (because the hypothesis is that the
famine was artificial, so the grains would be in the cities): they would either mass migrate
or die trying, in which case we would have mass graves.
Mass graves are the decisive evidence for a genocide, indeed any mass extermination,
because that would mean death was sudden. When the death process is slow and not
synchronized, people have the time to bury/cremate their dead. That is the case even with
some plagues (e.g. Antonine Plague). Mass graves are an indication people were killed more or
less at the same time, in an artificial way, and in large quantities (since proper burials
are expensive). In a deprived economy like the USSR, it is very unlikely all those bodies
would be properly buried, let alone cremated, was a mass extermination taken place.
The holy grail of evidence for a genocide/mass extermination for any historian is when a
witness points the place of the event and then archaeology finds out a mass grave. This
evidently didn't happen in the case of "Holodomor".
Note: Gorbachev is a Russian who was born and raised in a village that borders modern
Ukraine. His grandparents and parents were victims of the 1932 famine (they all survived).
They continued comitted with the Revolution and, according to Gorbachev's own accounts, he's
was not raised believing the 1932 famine was exceptional.
About the "Stalin is a genocidal psychopath" question: it's funny, because forced
collectivization was one of the few points where he and Trotsky agreed.
Whatever happened in macroeconomic reforms after Stalin consolidated power was a
collective work, not the designs of only one man. And, although we can argue against the
means, the fact was that they were successful: the USSR rose from the ruins of a second tier
imperial power (late tsarist Russia) to a global superpower.
To understand the most important fact of what happened to ukraine and why, you need to know
about the yank neocon PNAC, which trumps (excuse the pun) all: The Project for the New
American Century, and the original neocon (jew) wolfowitz doctrine, as revealed in the NYT in
1992:
www.nytimes.com/1992/03/08/world/us-strategy-plan-calls-for-insuring-no-rivals-develop.html
Russia at the moment is correctly perceived as the main opponent to the usa, china too as
upcoming, in line with the above, & PNAC is part of trying to keep Russia in its place:
'part of the American mission will be "convincing potential competitors that they need not
aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate
interests."' And 'to deter any nation or group of nations from challenging American primacy'.
And 'a world in which there is one dominant military power whose leaders "must maintain the
mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or
global role."' Note 'regional' insofar as it concerns Russia wrt ukraine.
Also this is why the USG used Maidan (with at least $5 bn - said nuland/jewland, married
to the co-founder of PNAC kagan, another jew) against Russia, to cause it problems and to be
a thorn in the flesh.
Another important fact is the roman catholic church attack on Russia through ukraine &
the split of the church in ukraine from the Russian Orthodox Church.
> there are essentially three methods an historian can determine if a genocide happened
Four.
There can be comparison of available data in adjacent regions.
In this specific case - in Poland-occupied Western Ukraine. Just "across the line".
Anecdotal evidence states it also had famine, so the famine was not anchored in USSR
specific way of governing.
Some rare online archives of then Poland newspapers photos report some UK delegations raising
concerns, etc.
However, in USSR the famine was a state-acknowledge emergency. USSR prohibited moving
foods out of Ukrainian SSR (and wheat was not the only food! everyone talks about grains,
forgetting potato, fish, mushrooms, etc), broken many Western contracts to repay debts in
grains (West was denying being paid in other assets and was decrying USSR savageness of
refusing to export all the contracted grain with the same zeal it today decry USSR savageness
of exporting at least some of grain), started importing grain from Persia (now Iran). This
emergency let a lot of paper trail, which now is used to "prove" how evil Soviet government
was (and, specifically, not Ukrainian SSR government but central government in Kremlin; and
somehow this is stretched even further to "prove" murderous hatred being part of "Russian
character").
In Poland, well, a dull matter of fact. Bad lack to be peasant, yet worst to be Ukrainian
peasant. S-t happens.
No paper trail - no "historic event" - no accusations.
Don't try to fix famines - and you will not be accused of being part of it.
Election apparatus is so easy to corrupt, yet people still vote! Crazy! And, so many
elections have been rigged this way: People are so dumb! Why does nobody insist on
independent, improved equipment? Conditioning makes people ignore the cheat under their
noses.
Recall the posters in previous threads defending the empire's color revolution attempts in
Hong Kong and match the names up with posters here. Are they trying to offer defense of the
empire's color revolutions in Ukraine, or do you think they are off-duty now and posting with
the sincere intention of initiating open discussion? Do you honestly think you can change
their minds by engaging with them and pointing out the flaws in their facts and their logic
when it is their job to defend the actions of the empire?
By the way, do expect and don't be surprised when the same posters referred to above
defend the empire's lawfare coup in Brazil, the attempted lawfare coup in South Africa, and
the attempts to regime change Venezuela when b posts any articles on these issues.
As for holodomor, or the Maidan snipers, or the famine in China, one doesn't need details
to identify fictions. One simply needs to use logic and reason. We need only question simple
points if we suspect that the famine in Ukraine was a deliberate attempt to exterminate
Ukrainians: Was it successfully completed, and if not then why not?
There are obviously still Ukrainians, so it wasn't successful. If we assume the famine was
a deliberate attempt at extermination, then we must ask why was it stopped before it
finished? Did some external factor force Stalin to call off the extermination before it was
completed?
No, the famine was stopped by dramatically improved agricultural practices instituted by
the Soviet Union. This cannot be reconciled with the claim that the famine was a deliberate
attempt by the Soviet Union at extermination, so no matter how much we may cherish the myth
of holodomor, to remain rational individuals we must let that myth go.
Too complex? Let's try the Maidan snipers: We are expected to believe that the killers
were police or Berkut snipers. What was their motive? Presumably to stop the protests. If
that was their motive, then why did the snipers stop sniping before dispersing the protests?
If the snipers were trying to end the protests, then why did they shoot just enough to
inflame further protests, but not enough to discourage the protests?
The answer is simple: The police and/or Berkut were not the Maidan snipers in Kiev.
The snipers were provocateurs who intended to amplify the protests.
It is good to dig deeper into the details of all of these false narratives that we in the
West have been fed, but those details are not absolutely necessary to know that the
narratives are false.
1. If forced collectivization would lead to famine, there would had be no famines in 1920-s
and in 1890-s, before the said collectivization but there were.
2. Before forced collectivization there were many years of attempts at unforced one. They
failed for at least two reasons.
a) many of poor peasants "saw themselves temporarily embarrassed millionaires". While
being target of debt sharks (kulaks, public-devourers
(мироеды)) they still only imagined the life as
being sole owner of their however tiny patch of soil.
b) government attempts they saw as unwarranted advantages from aliens, city-dwellers,
trade partners of hated kulaks, that to be took advantage of using any loopholes. Government
tried to foster grassroots kolkhoz movements by offering bound credits - seeds, fertilizers,
agriculture tools. Peasants started organizing "ten men" kolkhozes in springs, taking those
credits, and then dissolving kolkhozes before gathering crops. "Faked bankruptcy" in modern
parley. If you can have good sides without having bad sides - why opt for bad sides too?
Specifically in Ukraine it could also be boosted by the "national character" formed as
dwellers of centuries-long battle ground between Poland, Russia and Turkey. No positive
long-term planning, everything for instant profits disregarding any consequences. Any
government are occupants and bandits, co-operating with them is futile and silly. We can see
it today marching over once most rich and developed Soviet Republic. Why couldn't the same
happen in 1930-s ?
3. However forced collectivization did achieved a lot. Remember the UK, where "sheep ate
people", for example. Remember latifundists in Latin America. It is largely the same!
a) hugely increased labor efficiency in "village to city" trade metrics.
"товарное
зерно"
b) hugely increased labor efficiency in "men / area" ratio. Use of mechanic tractors and
harvesters, etc. Unemployment among "just my hands" peasantry.
c) increased "capital concentration" provided for use of fertilizer, poisons, etc. Which
contributed to the prior point.
d) now unemployed peasants moved to cities, populating newly built factories. This process
was already going in 1900-s but much slower then. Emergent industrialization in the wake of
WW2 - and a very successful one.
e) end of rural famines. One of the reason 1931 famine is so hyped - it was the last in the
row. Would there be a comparable famine for example in 1970-s - and for political purposes it
would had been much more useful against USSR. But there were none. "Golodomor" was the last
famine, so it became the focal point.
e) end of city famines. Where atomized peasant families could not sustain even a horse or a
cow, one of famines reasons, joint companies (kolkhozes) just like huge private
agri-companies in UK or Argentina, relied upon chemistry and mechanizations, thus needed to
trade with cities, thus were supplying cities with food. All the champions of Golodomor
somehow overlook city famines that were cruel in early USSR in winters.
And one more quirk is almost total lack of photo-evidence behind "Golodomor".
When articles/books are illustrated, it is with photos from 1920-s famine in USSR or in USA,
misattributed.
Allegedly, it is because in Soviet cruel diktatura even NKVD death squads could not make
those photos even for secret important reports.
Reportedly it is because victims of "Goldomor" were dying "fatties", making less convincing
images. The theories were made explaining why it was so, however there seems to be no any
other famine known where those theories worked and people dying of hunger were abnormally
thick.
To Arioch @84, I apologize. You are absolutely correct. Leaving trolls' posts unchallenged
gives the casual reader the impression that those posts are unassailable; nevertheless, I
have been attempting to limit my engagement with the trolls to simply pointing them out.
Posters such as yourself, vk, karlof1, etc who provide detailed and historically accurate
corrections to the false narratives are necessary for the edification of lurkers and casual
readers. I just hope that you don't measure the effectiveness of your posts by whether or not
you change the trolls' minds.
> I have been attempting to limit my engagement with the trolls to simply pointing them
out
This can really work well with people sincerely lost by massive propaganda, people who
succumbed to illusion they know, why they do not.
Wikipedia: The Socratic method, also known as method of Elenchus, elenctic method, or
Socratic debate, is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based
on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and
underlying presuppositions. It is a dialectical method, involving a discussion in which the
defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict
themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is named after the
Classical Greek philosopher Socrates and is introduced by him in Plato's Theaetetus as
midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the
interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding.
Sincere person, being guided by questions, would start researching and analyzing. And would
not feel coerced.
But you know, trolls just ignore the questions and keeps hammering talking points by
infinitely going back and repeating them "from starting point".
Avoiding positive argumentation, avoiding claiming something and limiting ourselves to
questioning their weak points, we help them to create another impression: they have a bad
theory when we have no theory at all. They are content with it.
So, putting out competing interpretation is no less important than showing their own
unhonesty.
My apologies to everyone for the dodgy Louis Proyect Counterpunch link. My bad. I'm glad that
people were able to look past the mistake and not overlook the van der pijl book. Thank you
for letting me know of Mr. Proyect's reputation.
I might disagree or argue with anyone, including yourself, but to my mind this is one of
the only ways to analyse and understand a topic, by taking in different points of view. We
might still walk away thinking the other is wrong, and that really is ok by me, but there
will be an overview of the different points of view for anyone else to follow, and insights
that are not found elsewhere.
MoA is very free thinking, the topics start from a well presented alternative view, and
the commentators are as a whole sincere and well meaning, as well as generally experienced or
educated.
So I don't understand what could seem like an effort by some to manage the domain based on
widely discounting other "certain" commentators, as it forms the impression that there is
only an accepted version, and a clique that should be joined.
I could go so far as thinking this is an effort to purposefully diminish the points of
view they claim to defend, as it gives the impression of a propaganda drive where freedom of
critique is unwelcome . :/
I try to take it as friendly though, like someone acting as guardian and testing
commentators, so in a way just discouraging people who aren't sincere, but still, others
might not see it like that.
To Arioch @84, I apologize. You are absolutely correct. Leaving trolls' posts unchallenged
gives the casual reader the impression that those posts are unassailable;..
...
I just hope that you don't measure the effectiveness of your posts by whether or not you
change the trolls' minds.
Posted by: William Gruff | Jul 23 2019 13:40 utc | 85
There's an over-arching factor here.
This is b's blog. The format, mechanics, subject matter, ethics and rules are b's. I think
MoA is a terrific blog. But, imo, it would be a little bit better if commentators followed
the rules. I've lost count of the number of times b has had to remind people...
"Don't feed the troll."
It is disrespectful to disregard b's frequent requests to IGNORE trolls. Considering the
wisdom evident in every article b researches and publishes, it is only reasonable to assume
that his reasoning with regard to trolls is equally wise, if not more so.
Missing from the comments regarding Ukrainian/Russian dynamics is recognition of the numerous
attempts (dating back to the 17th century) of the Russification of the Ukraine, first by the
Russian Empire and then by the Soviets.
- In 1863, minister of internal affairs Pyotr Valuyev issued the so-called Valuev
Circular, in which he stated that the Ukrainian language never existed, doesn't exist, and
cannot exist.
- Under Stalin, "korenization" took second stage to the idea of a united Soviet Union,
where competing national cultures were no longer tolerated, and the Russian language
increasingly became the only official language of Soviet socialism
-Russification of Soviet-occupied Ukraine intensified in 1938 under Nikita Khrushchev,
then secretary of the Ukrainian Communist Party, but was briefly halted during World War II,
when Axis forces occupied large areas of the country.
-In the 1960s, the Ukrainian language began to be used more widely and frequently in spite
of these policies. In response, Soviet authorities increased their focus on early education
in Russian. After 1980, Russian language classes were instituted from the first grade
onward.
( a reason for so many Russian-speaking Ukrainians??)
In the regions of southern Russian SFSR (North Caucasus and eastern part of Sloboda
Ukraine included into RSFSR) Ukrainization was effectively outlawed in 1932.[18]
Specifically, the December 14, 1932 decree "On Grain Collection in Ukraine, North Caucasus
and the Western Oblasts" by the VKP(b) Central Committee and USSR Sovnarkom stated that
Ukrainization in certain areas was carried out formally, in a "non-Bolshevik" way, which
provided the "bourgeois-nationalist elements" with a legal cover for organizing their
anti-Soviet resistance. In order to stop this, the decree ordered in these areas, among other
things, to switch to Russian all newspapers and magazines, and all Soviet and cooperative
paperwork. By the autumn of 1932 (beginning of a school year), all schools were ordered to
switch to Russian. In addition the decree ordered a massive population swap: all "disloyal"
population from a major Cossack settlement, stanitsa Poltavskaya was banished to Northern
Russia, with their property given to loyal kolkhozniks moved from poorer areas of Russia.[19]
in the 1937 Soviet Census compared to the 1926 First All-Union Census of the Soviet
Union.[18]
This perhaps explains the predominance of Russian in eastern Ukraine.
The Holodomor was real. When I lived in Ukraine, I knew enough people that survived it, and
also their relatives. Some were devoted Communists.
That said, the famine wasn't especially anti-Ukrainian. Many of the people who suffered
the worst were ethnic Russians in very Russified areas, as well as people living outside the
boundaries of the Ukrainian SSR. For that matter, the people who talk most about the
Holodomor today - Galicians - were under Poland at the time the famine was going on. Not only
that, but the Ukrainian nationalists of that time didn't care much that people were starving
in the Ukrainian SSR. In fact, they thought highly of the Soviet Union because there was a
Ukrainian SSR that promoted Ukrainian nationality, instead of Poland, which promoted
Polonization.
Like the fascists they were, the "nation" mean everything to the Ukrainian nationalists of
the 1930s. They didn't care that much for people.
Exactly. And while he seldom explains or argues his policies, he regularly enforces them
by deleting comments.
So, i think B can take care of that overarching concern personally.
Meanwhile for us arguing about this policy is not different from arguing about other
topics.
> "Don't feed the troll."
....was coined to a very specific and strict original definition of trolls: people who
trick others to violate forum rules and get banned while themselves technically residing
within forum rules legalese.
More so, in my limited experience those original trolls were rather intelligent persons
(it takes some marbles albeit perverted to find loopholes and goad others). To the point that
when "word fencing" moved into a topic interesting for particular troll he immediately
dropped all the usual sick fun tactics and engaged in sincere discussion (albeit totally
offtopic for the place).
Anyway, this maxim was coined to be catchy. It is not universal rule. It was a safety
measure for casual forum dwellers to avoid being banned yourself why trying to cut troll to
size.
It is indeed needed to remember that troll is not sincerely interested and you should not
invest emotionally into enlightening him.
It is needed to remember that public argument is for public.
It is needed to remember that you do not have goal of "winning" over troll personally, that
you aim at "driving home" the topic of discussion.
Troll might gladly let you score some ad hominem victory if you forget about the argument
topic in the process. That is detrimental indeed. But clarifying the topic while refusing
troll to drive discussion off the rail is exactly the win over troll's main goal. Keeping
discussion on-topic, collected and rational.
If you need less abstract example - look at any recent Russia vs America discussion in UN
SC. DC regime would be happy to have Russian diplomats refusing to talk for the sake of not
feeding American troll.
"Some allege that Zelensky is under influence of the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky. But so far
there is little evidence to provide that." - b
To think that Zelensky is anything other than Kolomoisky's puppet is imo extremely naive.
He's a political naif whose only claim to fame is playing a character on a tv show.
from the Kyiv Post:
- Zelenskiy's TV shows have been running on Kolomoisky's 1+1 channel for the past couple
of years, with the channel taking an active pro Zelenskiy stance during the March 31
presidential elections,...
- ..an investigative TV series ... showing how Zelenskiy traveled a total of 11 times to
Geneva and an additional two times to Tel-Aviv, where Kolomoisky took shelter, after his main
asset PrivatBank, Ukraine's largest bank, was nationalized ...
...Zelenskiy began flying to Geneva on a regular basis from February 2017, when Kolomoisky
permanently moved to the city due to legal action against him in Ukraine.
- Flights to Geneva occurred on a regular basis, until June 2018, when Kolomoisky moved
from Geneva to Tel-Aviv. Later Zelenskiy began flying to Tel-Aviv, ...at least three private
flights to and from Tel-Aviv in October, November and December of 2018.
- A regular travel companion of Zelenskiy was Andriy Bohdan, Kolomoisky's lawyer. Bohdan
was Kolomoisky's adviser in 2014 when the oligarch served as a governor of Dnipropetrovsk
Oblast.
. Kolomoisky was, to some degree, neutralized by Poroshenko when his Privat Bank was
effectively nationalized after massive looting of the bank's assets. Now he's back big time,
not only king-maker but also kingpin. After all there's still plenty of looting to be done
and he wants his bank back.
ps: So Zelensky doesn't even speak the language of the country he is leading. Doesn't any one
else find this a bit, well, odd? For example how would it be viewed if a Canadian Prime
Minister spoke only French?
@Piotr Berman #46
Indeed. A lot of people in the West are ignorant of, or refuse to acknowledge, that the
historic enmity between Poland and the Baltics on one side, and Russia on the other, is a
very long running affair. The Polish-Lithuanian empire that was overthrown by Russia was a
Norman-type feudal arrangement: armored knights ruling over a peasantry with dramatically
different religion, customs, even language.
@pantaraxia #90
Russian is a lingua franca all over the ex-Soviet Union nations much like Mandarin is the
lingua franca over all of China. China actually has a lot of different dialects and accents -
some of which are utterly incomprehensible to Mandarin speakers (beyond Cantonese).
Ethnic Russians also moved to a lot of places during the Soviet Union (and ethnic minorities
moved into Russia as well).
Re: Holodomor
What I wrote before was simply that famine/death occurred.
Whether it was a policy specifically designed to hurt Ukraine/Ukrainians, extremely difficult
to say.
I thought that would be obvious from the notes on the purges and forced migrations which
Stalin undertook, plus the comment concerning economic sanctions.
Ukrainian language, as something (1) defined and (2) distinct from neighboring languages
or shared with Russian origins, emerged in Tsarist Russia, due to efforts of quite small
number of people, Kotliarevskii, Taras Shevchenko, and their followers, in 19 century, and
was not universally accepted at the time in Tzarist Russia as something which does or should
exist.
It gained support after 1917 revolution in short-lived attempts to establish independent
Ukrainian state, as a way to oppose Russian influence, including by Germany-backed hetman
Skoropadsky, etc.
Bolsheviks first promoted Ukrainian language, then reversed (30's), then supported again
after WW2.
But all this is old history. Presently, considerable part of population, especially in
eastern and southern regions, is mentally and linguistically Russian. Which is being in the
process of artificially changed and imposed by forces and their backers which came to power
in 2014.
Disgusting and harmful (first of all for Ukraine itself, for her inhabitants), when the
Ukrainian Nazis, who actually usurped power, deliberately lie about "Russian aggression" and
"war with Russia". But even worse, when some of these freaks and scumbags sincerely believe
in what they say. They truly believe that for five years "they are at war with Russia".
The aggression of the Ukrainian regime against the Donbass has lasted for more than 5
years. This is longer than the Great Patriotic War (the war of the Third Reich against the
USSR, 22.6.1941-9.5.1945). There is every reason to believe that this aggression will last
even longer than the entire Second World War officially lasted. That is, more than 6
years.
But these freaks really believe that they are "at war with Russia" for more than 5 years.
They allegedly "at war" with the nuclear superpower, which has shown its effectiveness and
methods of warfare in Syria, when in about two years (I repeat, two years: September 2015 -
December 2017), the task of defeating the main part of the terrorists was solved, tens of
thousands of militants were destroyed, thousands of kilometers of Syrian territory were
liberated etc.
The other nuclear superpower, the United States, planning aggression against Syria (April
2017, April 2018), first of all tried in no way to hurt the Russian troops. Before the
missile attacks on Syria, the United States through the communication channels specified the
location of Russian military advisers from the Russian side, so that God forbid, do not kill
or injure them. I repeat, the United States, a powerful military superpower, was afraid to
kill even one Russian military.
But Ukraine, the poorest country in Europe, whose economy has degraded several times
(compared to the level before the coup d'etat), whose army is in a deplorable state, a
country torn by monstrous corruption, a drop in education, a huge outflow of the
population... - this country supposedly really "fighting" with Russia. Funny. It turns out
that Ukraine is much more capable, stronger and bolder than the United States (who, as i
said, was afraid to kill even one Russian military in Syria)!
And, again, these freaks really believe in a five-year "war with Russia". Jesus,
propaganda and total brainwashing can do amazing things! An odd parallel reality in which
millions of people live
Ukraine became a geopolitical pawn. In signing up with the US and EU, there is one guaranteed loser – the Ukrainian people.
Notable quotes:
"... His electorally repudiated predecessor, Petro Poroshenko, backed by supporters in Washington, thwarted almost every preceding opportunity for negotiations both with the Donbass rebels and with Moscow, ..."
"... But the struggle for peace has just begun, with powerful forces arrayed against it in Ukraine, Moscow, and Washington. In Ukraine, well-armed ultra-nationalist -- some would say quasi-fascist -- detachments are terrorizing supporters of Zelensky's initiative, including a Kiev television station that proposed broadcasting a dialogue between Russian and Ukrainian citizens. ..."
"... Which brings us to Washington and in particular to President Donald Trump and his would-be opponent in 2020, former vice president Joseph Biden. Kiev's government, thus now Zelensky, is heavily dependent on billions of dollars of aid from the International Monetary Fund, which Washington largely controls. Former president Barack Obama and Biden, his "point man" for Ukraine, used this financial leverage to exercise semi-colonial influence over Poroshenko, generally making things worse, including the incipient Ukrainian civil war. Their hope was, of course, to sever Ukraine's centuries-long ties to Russia and even bring it eventually into the US-led NATO sphere of influence. ..."
"... Biden, however, has a special problem -- and obligation. As an implementer, and presumably architect, of Obama's disastrous policy in Ukraine, and currently the leading candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, Biden should be asked about his past and present thinking regarding Ukraine. The much-ballyhooed ongoing "debates" are an opportunity to ask the question -- and of other candidates as well. Presidential debates are supposed to elicit and clarify the views of candidates on domestic and foreign policy. And among the latter, few, if any, are more important than Ukraine, which remains the epicenter of this new and more dangerous Cold War. ..."
"... This commentary is based on Stephen F. Cohen's most recent weekly discussion with the host of The John Batchelor Show . Now in their sixth year, previous installments are at TheNation.com . ..."
The election of Ukraine's new president, Volodymyr Zelensky, who won decisively throughout
most of the country, represents the possibility of peace with Russia, if it -- and he -- are
given a chance. His electorally repudiated predecessor, Petro Poroshenko, backed by supporters
in Washington, thwarted almost every preceding opportunity for negotiations both with the
Donbass rebels and with Moscow, notably provisions associated with the European-sponsored Minsk
Accords. Zelensky, on the other hand, has made peace (along with corruption) his top priority
and indeed spoke directly with Russian President Vladimir Putin, on July 11. The nearly
six-year war having become a political, diplomatic, and financial drain on his leadership,
Putin welcomed the overture.
But the struggle for peace has just begun, with powerful forces arrayed against it in
Ukraine, Moscow, and Washington. In Ukraine, well-armed ultra-nationalist -- some would say
quasi-fascist -- detachments are terrorizing supporters of Zelensky's initiative, including a
Kiev television station that proposed broadcasting a dialogue between Russian and Ukrainian
citizens. (Washington has previously had some shameful episodes of
collusion with these Ukrainian neo-Nazis .) As for Putin, who does not fully control the
Donbass rebels or its leaders, he "can never be seen at home," as
I pointed out more than two years ago , "as 'selling out' Russia's 'brethren' anywhere in
southeast Ukraine." Indeed, his own implacable nationalists have made this a litmus test of his
leadership.
Which brings us to Washington and in particular to President Donald Trump and his
would-be opponent in 2020, former vice president Joseph Biden. Kiev's government, thus now
Zelensky, is heavily dependent on billions of dollars of aid from the International Monetary
Fund, which Washington largely controls. Former president Barack Obama and Biden, his "point
man" for Ukraine, used this financial leverage to exercise semi-colonial influence over
Poroshenko, generally making things worse, including the incipient Ukrainian civil war. Their
hope was, of course, to sever Ukraine's centuries-long ties to Russia and even bring it
eventually into the US-led NATO sphere of influence.
Our hope should be that Trump breaks with that long-standing bipartisan policy, as he did
with policy toward North Korea, and puts America squarely on the side of peace in Ukraine. (For
now, Zelensky has set aside Moscow's professed irreversible "reunification" with Crimea, as
should Washington.) A new US policy must include recognition, previously lacking, that the
citizens of war-ravaged Donbass are not primarily "Putin's stooges" but people with their own
legitimate interests and preferences, even if they favor Russia. Here too Zelensky is embarking
on a new course. Poroshenko waged an "anti-terrorist" war against Donbass: the new president is
reaching out to its citizens even though most of them were unable to vote in the election.
Biden, however, has a special problem -- and obligation. As an implementer, and presumably
architect, of Obama's disastrous policy in Ukraine, and currently the leading candidate for the
Democratic presidential nomination, Biden should be asked about his past and present thinking
regarding Ukraine. The much-ballyhooed ongoing "debates" are an opportunity to ask the question
-- and of other candidates as well. Presidential debates are supposed to elicit and clarify the
views of candidates on domestic and foreign policy. And among the latter, few, if any, are more
important than Ukraine, which remains the epicenter of this new and more dangerous Cold
War.
This commentary is based on Stephen F. Cohen's most recent weekly discussion with the
host of The John Batchelor
Show . Now in their sixth year, previous installments are at TheNation.com .
"... To NATO, Ukraine is a handy tool to threaten Russia with. ..."
"... As tensions rise between Russia and Ukraine on the Black Sea, the US is upgrading several Ukrainian naval bases to give American and NATO warships the ability to dock just miles from Russia-controlled Crimea. ..."
"... People in Ukraine told Newsweek that these moves would have been impossible under former President Poroshenko, who was held captive by anti-Russian rhetoric that made it impossible for him to make concessions. On the contrary, Zelenskiy has demonstrated that eastern Ukraine is not a frozen conflict after all. ..."
"... "Zelenskiy has to show that he is doing something," one European diplomat in Ukraine's capital Kiev told Newsweek, speaking on condition of anonymity. ..."
"... Five years since the conflict broke out, over 60 percent of Ukrainians say that the ongoing conflict in the country's east is of paramount importance. Around 13,000 people have died since the conflict broke out in 2014. ..."
"... The US and NATO will not let this upstart president overturn decades of planning on making Ukraine a vassal state just to see it undone. Now wouldn't that be a coup feather for Putin to put in his hat? ..."
To NATO, Ukraine is a handy tool to threaten Russia with.
Recently Ukraine, the U.S., and a dozen other NATO nations conducted
military
drills in the northern Black Sea. That wasn't even the most
provocative
step.
As tensions rise between Russia and Ukraine on the Black Sea, the US is upgrading several Ukrainian naval bases to give American
and NATO warships the ability to dock just miles from Russia-controlled Crimea.
So with all this ratcheting up of tensions, why would I say that peace could be about to break out? Because the
new president
of Ukraine isn't like the old one.
Russian President Vladimir Putin had his first phone call with Ukraine's new president on Thursday and discussions centered
on the conflict in eastern Ukraine that has bitterly blighted relations between the two countries.
...
Peskov added that the two discussed the possibility of "continuing contacts in the Normandy format," a reference to four-way
talks involving the leaders of Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany....In 2015, France and Germany helped broker a peace deal
for eastern Ukraine that was signed in the Belarusian capital Minsk. It has helped reduce the scope of fighting, but clashes
have continued and political settlement has stalled.
This phone call comes just a few weeks after Peskov ordered Ukrainian troops to
pull
back from civilian crossing points along the 450-kilometer line of contact in the Donbas war zone.
This call would have been
impossible under the previous president.
People in Ukraine told Newsweek that these moves would have been impossible under former President Poroshenko, who was held
captive by anti-Russian rhetoric that made it impossible for him to make concessions. On the contrary, Zelenskiy has demonstrated
that eastern Ukraine is not a frozen conflict after all.
"Zelenskiy has to show that he is doing something," one European diplomat in Ukraine's capital Kiev told Newsweek, speaking
on condition of anonymity.
Five years since the conflict broke out, over 60 percent of Ukrainians say that the ongoing conflict in the country's east
is of paramount importance. Around 13,000 people have died since the conflict broke out in 2014.
This is very promising.
The question is if the
IMF suddenly takes a hard-line, "by coincidence", if Ukraine comes to a peace deal with Russia.
The US and NATO will not let this upstart president overturn decades of planning on making Ukraine a vassal state just to see
it undone. Now wouldn't that be a coup feather for Putin to put in his hat?
We'll start with the 10 per-capita poorest-countries in the whole of Europe. In rank order:
Moldova – US$2560
Ukraine – US$3560
Kosovo – US$3990
Albania – US$4450
Bosnia and Herzegovina – US$4769
Republic of Macedonia – US$5150
Serbia – US$5820
Montenegro – US$7320
Bulgaria – US$7620
Romania – US$9420
Average per capita income in Europe as a whole is US$37,317 (2018 figures).
What is noticeable is that most of these states are situated in either the Balkans or
South-Eastern Europe.
But that is not the end of the story.
Portugal, the poorest country in western Europe with GDP standing at US$238billion, is just pipped
by the Czech Republic (now Czechia which is actually in the centre of Europe) as the star performer of
the East whose national income stands at US$ 240,105 million.
Thus, in terms of per capita income the Czech Republic is the sole representative of the
ex-Soviet states in Europe.
This geopolitical and economic cleavage could hardly be starker.
These two Euro-zones replicate the division of North and South between the US/Canada and central and
Latin America.
Much of the attention to European development – or the lack of it – has been preoccupied with the
gap between the West and South of Europe. This present schism is attributable to tried, tested, and
failed economic strategies promulgated by the various institutions of globalization: the IMF, WB, WTO
and so forth.
The single currency, the euro, became legal tender on 1 January 1999 and was adopted by
most of the countries in the Euro area. But this proved to be the undoing of the political economy of
the South.
When different sovereign states are responsible for their own economic policies and are able to
print and issue their own currencies on world markets, any distortions and maladjustments which occur
in trade balances is alleviated by changes in exchange rate values – in short, devaluation. This will
hopefully restore such imbalances and return to a trade equilibrium.
However, this policy is, now, no longer available to the Southern European states since they no
longer have their own currencies and, in addition, are under the tutelage the European Central Bank
(ECB). The Southern periphery are now are using the same currency as the Northern European bloc, the
euro, and required by the ECB to take on a one-size fits all monetary policy.
Devaluations are therefore ruled out.
Given the higher productivity levels and lower costs of Germany, Holland, Sweden, France and so
forth, the Southern peripheral states have begun to run chronic balance of payments deficits. The only
avenue left open to them is what is termed 'internal devaluation' – i.e., austerity.
This results in low growth, high unemployment, high migration, depopulation, cuts in public
spending and the rest of the IMF's Structural Adjustment Policies – policies which have failed just
about everywhere. So much for the southern periphery.
Focus on Eastern Europe sheds light on a different set of problems. Most Eastern European
countries, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland kept their own currencies; apart
that is from basket cases like Latvia whose government, unlike the people, went where angels feared to
tread – into the Eurozone and the euro.
(
N.B.
Some Western European countries, e.g., the UK, Denmark, Switzerland and
Norway did – wisely – keep their own currencies.)
Excluding Russia, of course, these Eastern European states – termed 'transitional economies' – have
become stalled in economic stagnation which so far has been difficult if not impossible to overcome.
These obstacles have been specific to the Eastern periphery.
The European Union now consists of 28 states. No fewer than 10 of these are former states
of the Eastern Bloc, and this proportion is set to grow with the impending accession with some minor
Balkan nations.
Although Georgia and Ukraine are in line for membership of the EU, they are
also expected to join NATO as has become customary for aspirant EU states.
Whether they obtain either is a matter of conjecture, however, as this would be almost certain to
cross Russia's red lines and result in a major geopolitical flareup. Europe's centre of gravity is
shifting. And while the process of joining the European Union is driving change within these
countries, it is also changing the nature of Europe itself.
WHERE'S MY PORSCHE?
Those Eastern European states which emerged from the break-up of the Soviet Union had been
led to believe that a bright new world of West European living standards, enhanced pay levels, high
rates of social mobility and consumption were on offer.
Unfortunately, they were sold an illusion:
the result of the transition so far
seems to have been the creation of a low-wage hinterland, a border economy on the fringes of the
highly developed European core; a Euro version of NAFTA and the maquiladora, i.e., low tech, low wage,
low skills production units on the Mexican side of the US's southern borders.
This has had wider political and social ramifications for the entire European project. The Brave
New World envisaged did not have any basic guiding principles or planning other than the usual
neoliberal prescriptions of privatisation-deregulation-liberalisation, the well-thumbed policy triad
of the neoliberal playbook.
Central to this policy implementation was a controversial prescription called 'shock-therapy'. The
fact that this policy had already been tried in Russia and failed spectacularly, didn't seem to worry
the PTB. Such is always the case with religious beliefs.
The doctrine itself had become popular among the ingenues and opportunists of the old 'workers
states'. Shock-therapy was designed to wipe-away all the old fuddy-duddy notions about state
interventionism, welfarism, social and national protection; measures included the sudden removal of
subsidies, fire sales of state assets (privatisation), and the abrupt removal of the controls and
subsidies that had formerly applied to wages and prices.
But the neoliberal militants insisted upon a policy of 'freeing up' the markets which, according to
them, would maximise growth and development. Predictably of course, these policies also opened these
countries to maximum – and often predatory – western penetration and influence.
The shock was timed to occur before the establishment of financial markets within the region and,
in the absence of investment capital, restructuring efforts became focused on labour – on reducing the
unit cost of labour in order to become "competitive". It should be understood that in neo-liberal,
supply-side, economics the road to wealth and prosperity entailed policies that actually make their
populations poorer. There seems to be a slightly Orwellian flavour here. 'Poverty is Wealth.'
The wave of mass unemployment that this generated in the early 1990s goes well beyond the
experiences of British recessions of the 1980s, with unemployment in some regions reaching 80 per
cent. Shock therapy deliberately engineered a slump in the economies of the region, by shattering the
region's economic links, and then creating a massive domestic recession.
SHOCK-THERAPY – ALL SHOCK NO THERAPY
Regardless, the show must go on. The neoliberal religion taken up in many of these states, often by
former members of the Communist nomenklatura, which resulted in high levels of structural unemployment
were actually meant to do that, at least in the short-term. Painful as it was bound to be, this was
the necessary shakeout of an inefficient and cosseted workforce and therefore the absolute
precondition which would catapult these formerly backward economies into lean and mean competitors on
Europe's markets and the prelude of an entry into the developed economies on the Western European and
US model. Yeah, right.
In the real-world Michael Hudson analysed just how this process panned out in Latvia.
Like other post-Soviet economies, Latvians wanted to achieve the prosperity they saw in Western
Europe. If Latvia had followed the policies that built up the industrial nations, the state would
have taxed wealth and income progressively to invest in public infrastructure.
Instead, Latvia's Baltic miracle assumed largely predatory forms of rent-seeking and insider
privatisation. Accepting the US and Swedish advice to accept the world's most lopsided set of
neoliberal tax and financial policies. Latvia levied the heaviest taxes on labour. Employers had to
pay a 25% tax on wages plus a 24% of social service tax, whilst wage-earners pay another 11% tax.
These three taxes making up to a 60% flat tax before personal deductions.
Additionally, in order to make labour high-cost and uncompetitive, consumers must pay a high
value-added sales tax of 21% (raised sharply from 7%) after the 2008 blowout. No Western economy
taxes wages and consumption at that level.
Latvia's heavy taxation of labour finds its counterpart in a mere 10% on dividends, interest and
other returns to wealth and the lowest property tax rate of any other economy. Thus, Latvian fiscal
policy retarded growth and employment whilst concurrently subsidising a real estate bubble that is the
chief feature of Latvia's "Baltic Miracle".
Now Latvia was to open up its economy to foreign capital inflows – hot money – from foreign bank
affiliates, mainly Scandinavian, whose chief interest was to finance the property boom. Of course,
these cash inflows needed to be serviced and in doing so became a financial tax on the nation's labour
and industry. Other sources in overseas monies came in the form of privatisation of Latvia's public
sector stock. Sweden became a major source of these rent-seeking inflows.
Yet with all of this money flowing into Latvia absolutely no effort was made to restructure
industry and agriculture to generate foreign exchange to import capital and consumer goods not
produced at home. Having lost export potentialities during the COMECON period the existing production
linkages were uprooted, industrial plants were dismantled for their land value scrapped or transformed
into real estate gentrification.
The Baltic miracle had been nothing more than a property debt-bubble financed by foreign capital
inflows. When the flows reversed the extent of debt deflation, deindustrialisation and depopulation
(see below) became apparent.
The Austerity programme Latvia was suffering was the world's steepest one-year plunge in house
prices which had peaked in 2007. Despite having emerged debt-free in 1991, Latvia had become
Europe's most debt-strapped country, without using some of its borrowed credit to modernize its
industry or agriculture."
What was true of Latvia was also generally the case in the rest of Eastern Europe' Thus by 2008 it
had become apparent that the post-Soviet economies had not really grown as much as they had been
financialized and indebted.
Forbes economist Adomanis calculated in 2014 that convergence of these economies with those of the
West
continues at its 2008-13 pace (about 0.37% per annum) it would take the new EU members over 100
years to match up to the core countries average level of income to the extent that Central
Europe's most rapid and sustained burst of convergence coincided with a credit bubble that is
highly unlikely to be repeated, it seems more likely than not that the regions convergence will be
slower in the future than it was in the past."
BUDDY CAN YOU SPARE A EURO
With the decimation of indigenous industry, the role of financialization and debt became crucial,
as the new capitalist economies required a financial services industry that could support the growing
tendencies towards property speculation and asset manipulation.
Different vulnerabilities arose from the actions of different institutions, but the overall effect
was to create state dependency upon foreign direct investment (FDI), and support from the World Bank,
IMF and the specially created European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD).
The general financialization of the region led to huge increases in debt, both personal and
institutional. Western banks in a number of smaller states, most notably Austria and Sweden, sought to
boost their profits through increasing their market share in the Central and Eastern Europe (CEE)
region, by aggressive lending to households.
Drawing on the general expectation of CEE countries' membership of the EU to borrow on the
wholesale money markets and taking advantage of financial deregulation and poor consumer protection
standards in the region, they lent money denominated in Euros, Swiss Francs and Japanese Yen. This
allowed them to offer consumers lower interest rates than those available for borrowing in domestic
currencies. And this borrowing has driven eye-watering increases in levels of personal household debt
– especially in Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and the Baltic States.
Another consequence of shock-therapy was the pressure that it would generate on the European Union
to open up western European markets to the CEE countries. The model that peripheral states adopted –
of being low-wage export-based economies – depended on access to EU markets.
However, in order to sell on EU markets, it is necessary to have something to export. But these
states simply did not and do not have the industrial and/or financial capacity to compete with Western
European states and are not likely to have in the foreseeable future. Being subordinated to a set of
rules empowered by global institutions, the IMF, WB, WTO – neoliberalism – makes such development
impossible.
Of course, there has been some Western investment in CEE but without wishing to be cynical – moi?
Never! – not all of this investment has been for CEEs benefit, most of it was purely predatory.
For example, the US Transnational Conglomerate, General Electric, after sniffing out worthwhile
opportunities for a quick buck decided upon buying a lighting company, Tungsram, in Hungary. They
swiftly closed profitable product lines and were thus able to remove a source of domestic competition
from the market.
Similarly, the Hungarian cement industry was bought by foreign owners, who then prevented their
Hungarian affiliates from exporting; and an Austrian steel producer bought a major Hungarian steel
plant only in order to close it down and capture its ex-Soviet market for the Austrian parent company.
For a voracious appetite try Volkswagen.
VW acquired a controlling stake in SEAT in 1986, making it the first non-German marque of the
company, and acquired control of Škoda (see below) in 1994, of Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti in
1998, Scania in 2008 and of Ducati, MAN and Porsche in 2012.
But VW's cherry-picking didn't stop there.
Case Study: VWs takeover of Skoda
Five months after the fall of Communism and before of any kind shock-therapy had been launched
Citreon, GM, Renault, and Volvo were clamouring for Skoda. VW won the bid promising DM7.1 billion,
promising to raise production to 450,000 cars per year by 2000. Engine parts were to be
manufactured in Bohemia and a promise was made to use Czech suppliers. The Czech workforce was to
be retained. The Czech government was favourably disposed to this sort of Foreign Direct Investment
(FDI) and gave VW a protected position in the home market in addition to a two-year tax holiday
writing off Skoda's debts.
Things turned sour, however, when VW reneged on its debts and promises. The original investment
of Deutschmark(DM)7.1 billion was reduced to DM3.8 billion, there would be no Czech engine plant,
and no commitment to produce 405,000 cars by year 2000. The labour force would be cut to 15,000
followed by more redundancies, and VW would increasingly to German parts suppliers rather than
Czech subsidiaries, bringing in 15 such firms to replace their Czech competitors.
These are examples of the ways in which the "peripheral economy" status of the CEE region was
imposed. An exploitative relationship between East and West. The Skoda experience of the negative
outcome from opening up of the leading sectors of a target's country's (the Czech Republic) production
apparatus into the global strategy of a Western TNC is not unique and is a common feature of FDI
flows.
After only a couple of years of "shock-therapy", much of the core industrial infrastructure of the
peripheral states had fallen into the hands of multinational companies – from chains of shops, to
power generating plant and steelworks. Two political/social phenomena resulted from the
asset-stripping (whoops, I mean productive investment).
POLITICAL
Since the advent of the shock therapy, it would have been expected that East European voters would
have voted en masse for parties of the left for the usual reasons. Namely to mitigate the worst social
and economic effects of the capitalist transition.
But these parties themselves had become Blairised, i.e., heavily committed to the pseudo-reformist
'third-way' along with the orthodoxies of neoliberal economics, as this was seen as part of their
commitment to European accession. Into the ideological vacuum and emerging across the region came
populist and right-wing movements, in Poland and Hungary in particular as well the semi-fascist
Baltics where they have always had a presence.
These groups have attempted to harness people's discontent. Political forces that flourished in the
time of the Austro-Hungarian empire have re-emerged – such as anti-Semitic "Christian socialism" and
patriotic "national liberalism". and perhaps more important came mass migration and depopulation in
the whole area
DEPOPULATION
Depopulation of Eastern Europe is connected not only with the outflow of labour resources: after
1989, the era of wild capitalism began in the former "socialist countries", accompanied by the
collapse of social and medical systems, a sharp increase in mortality, especially among men, with a
simultaneous fall in the birth rate "
The French newspaper
Le Monde diplomatique
wrote about the unprecedented demographic
catastrophe that hit the countries of Eastern Europe after the collapse of the communist system in its
June issue.
The process began in late 1989, immediately after the fall of the Berlin Wall. There followed a
massive exodus of the population from East Germany, Poland, and Hungary to the countries of Western
Europe in search of higher earnings, which continues to this day, covering practically all former
countries of the socialist camp.
As a result of the new "resettlement of peoples", the human losses of Eastern Europe were much
greater than those of both world wars. Over the past 30 years, Romania lost 14% of the population,
Moldova – 16.9%, Ukraine – 18%, Bosnia – 19.9%, Bulgaria and Lithuania – 20.8%, Latvia – 25.3% of the
population. Depopulation also affected the parts of Germany (the former DDR), which in the literal
sense of the word were emptied.
A kind of exception was made by the Czech Republic, where it was possible to preserve the main
"gains of socialism" in the form of social support for the population, a free medical system,
assistance.
Depopulation of Eastern Europe is connected not only to the outflow of labour resources: after
1989, the era of wild capitalism began in the former "socialist countries", accompanied by the
collapse of social and medical systems, a sharp increase in mortality, especially among men, with a
simultaneous fall in the birth rate.
However, the main blow to demography caused the outcome of the population, especially the youngest,
active, qualified group. In the historical homeland remained children, pensioners and persons
incapable of actively seeking work abroad. And this despite the fact that for 40 post-war years in the
countries of Eastern Europe there was a slow but steady growth of the population.
According to the UN, all ten of the world's most "endangered" countries are in Eastern Europe:
Bulgaria, Romania, Poland, Hungary, the Baltic republics and the former Yugoslavia, as well as Moldova
and Ukraine. According to the forecasts of demographers, by 2050 the population of these countries
will decrease by another 15-23%.
This means, in particular, that the population of Bulgaria will drop from 7 to 5 million people,
Latvia – from 2 to 1.5 million. According to experts of the Wittgenstein International Demographic
Centre in Vienna,
"it is unprecedented for peacetime depopulation."
Among the main reasons called the killer combination of three factors – low birth rate, high
mortality and mass emigration. But if in the countries of Western Europe, the fall in the birth rate
is compensated by the new migration waves, the countries of Eastern Europe categorically refuse to
accept the "fresh blood" in the person of migrants, and this issue has acquired an extraordinary
political poignancy.
At the height of the migration crisis of 2015, Slovakia and the Czech Republic took 16 and 12
refugees respectively, Hungary and Poland did not accept anyone.
Meanwhile, Eastern Europe continues to lose its "golden cadres" – the best specialists and young
people. In Hungary alone, since joining the EU in 2004, 5,000 doctors have left the country, mostly
under the age of 40. There is a shortage of technicians and mechanics who also left for Austria,
Germany and other countries of Western Europe.
This is perfectly understandable since in Hungary they receive 500 euros a month for heavy manual
work, and in Austria for the same work – 1 thousand euros per week.
In other countries, the outflow of specialists of medium qualification is felt even more: hundreds
of thousands of nurses, carpenters, locksmiths and skilled workers moved from Poland, Romania, Serbia,
and Slovakia to the West. In Romania, the outcome of the population is called a "national
catastrophe". The population of this country declined for the post-communist period from 23 to 20
million people.
The transfer of labour from the East was not only spontaneous but also systematically predatory.
Numerous German and British firms of "head-hunters" in large numbers began to entice Eastern
specialists immediately after the accession of Eastern European countries to the EU. As the German
Die
Welt
writes, qualification, youth and money flow from Eastern European countries, while the old
people and children remain deeply disappointed in "freedom" and "democracy."
Since the early 1990s, Bosnia lost 150 thousand people, Serbia – about half a million. However, the
most significant outflow was observed in Lithuania: over 300,000 people out of 3 million left the
country.
But the most tragic consequences of the "post-communist breakdown" have been experienced by Ukraine
– once one of the most developed republics of the USSR. If in the early 1990s there were 52 million
people in the republic, now the population does not exceed 42 million. According to the forecasts of
the Kiev Institute of Demography, by 2050 the population of the republic will be 32 million.
This means that Ukraine is the fastest dying state in Europe, and possibly, in the world.
According
to Ukrainian sources, the country was abandoned by 8 million people (experts believe that number is
from 2 to 4 million people – ed.), who went to work in the countries of the European Union and
neighbouring Russia. According to recent polls, 35% of Ukrainians declared their readiness to
emigrate. The process accelerated after Ukraine received a visa-free regime with the EU: about 100,000
people leave the country every month
It was in Ukraine in the most extreme form three factors coincided: a fall in the birth rate, an
increase in mortality (the death rate was twice the birth rate) and mass emigration of the population.
Compare the corresponding dynamics in France and Ukraine. If before 1989 the growth rates of the
population in these two countries were comparable, then in the subsequent period the population of
France increased by 9 million people, and Ukraine lost the same number of people.
Experts believe that the demographic crisis in Eastern Europe cannot continue indefinitely. The
systems of social support and healthcare cannot physically work in conditions when the majority of the
population is pensioners and children, at some point, inevitably there will be a collapse of
statehood.
But you should not flatter yourself about Western Europe, where the birth rate is also extremely
low. While the developed part of the continent temporarily benefited from human resources from Eastern
Europe, a much more rapid influx of migrants from the Middle East and Africa will inevitably change
the sociocultural image of Western European countries, where religious and ethnic conflicts already
arise.
If the fertility rate for native French women is 1.6 children per woman, then for adults from the
countries of the Middle East and Africa this figure is 3.4 children or more. Today's kindergartens in
France are already three-quarters composed of representatives of ethnic minorities, and in the future,
great socio-cultural changes await the country. This has already been written in his best-selling
Soumission
by
the French writer Michelle Houellebecq.
Is there a solution? Is it possible to stimulate the birth rate mechanism among Europeans?
Demographers believe that this is impossible either in Western or Eastern Europe. In the west of the
continent, the consumption standard is so high that the appearance of a new child will automatically
mean a decrease in the standard of living. In Eastern Europe, another mechanism operates: poverty,
lack of prospects and the breakdown of family relations make the birth of children undesirable.
Meanwhile, the proportion of Europeans in the world's total population is decreasing. If in 1900
Europe accounted for 25% of the world's inhabitants, now it is about 10%
CONCLUSIONS
As with other earlier examples of catch-up modernization the development policies, Eastern Europe
presents a textbook example of the development of under-development.
The general liberal theory of gradual evolution was penned by W.W.Rostow, an American economist,
professor and political theorist who served as Special Assistant for National Security Affairs to US
President Lyndon B. Johnson from 1966 to 1969.
His theory of 5 Stages of Growth held that all societies progress through similar stages of
development, and that today's underdeveloped areas are thus in a similar situation to that of today's
developed areas at some time in the past, and that therefore the task in helping the underdeveloped
areas out of poverty is to accelerate them along this supposed common path of development, by various
means such as investment, technology transfers, and closer integration into the world market.
This view, however, was a source of a major counter-critique. Dependency theory (see Immanuel
Wallerstein, Andre Gunder-Frank, Samir Amin and Paul Baran) is essentially a body of social science
theories predicated on the notion that resources flow from a "periphery" of poor and underdeveloped
states to a "core" of wealthy states, enriching the latter at the expense of the former.
It is a central contention of dependency theory that poor states are impoverished, and rich ones
enriched by the way poor states are integrated into the "world system". Dependency theorists, argued
that underdeveloped countries are not merely primitive versions of developed countries, but have
unique features and structures of their own; and, importantly, are in the situation of being the
weaker members in a world market economy, whereas the developed nations were never in an analogous
position; they never had to exist in relation to a bloc of more powerful countries than themselves.
In opposition to free-market economists (vide supra) the dependency school argued that
underdeveloped countries needed to reduce their connectedness with the world market so that they could
pursue a path more in keeping with their own needs, less dictated by external pressures.
About right.
Peripheral and semi-peripheral states being integrated into the world system are 'ruled' if that is
the right word, by comprador elites who are part of a cosmopolitan overclass in a global financialised
world system. Capital leakages and flight from periphery to core – a common feature of the world
system, as are raw material and other energy products from the 'developing' world. Eastern Europe and
its elites fit entirely into this comprador category supplying raw materials, labour and tourism as
well as East to West capital flows/flight.
As we have seen the notion that FDI brings about growth and development is the wrong way around. No
developed economy got that way by opening up its economy to competition and inward (invariably
predatory) investment from more highly developed countries and economies. Policies of State-capitalist
mercantilism and nation-building have always been the road to development. The UK being the first,
followed in short order by the United States and Germany, in the 19th century, and in the 20th century
by a number of East Asian states in historical order, Japan, South Korea and China, and a number of
others.
In the case of Russia, this state has a semi-peripheral global position, in both political and
economic terms. Too big and to small in economic terms with a small GDP, although very low debt-to-GDP
ratio (15%). It is both semi-sovereign and semi-peripheral and a somewhat less than submerged struggle
is going on between the Eurasian sovereigntists and the Atlantic integrationists with Putin balanced
between the two factions.
[Russia] is not exactly classical peripheral capitalism but rather a semi-periphery.
Its phenomenon is characterised, on the one hand, by its dependency on the core, but on the
other hand by its ability to challenge the domination of the latter in some particular areas. This
semi-dependent position of Russia is conditioned by its shift to capitalism, whilst its
semi-independent position is due to the Soviet legacy.
In particular, this legacy found its manifestation in a significant nuclear arsenal still
comparable with that of the United States. If it had not existed, Russia would have been subjugated
to Western interests a long time ago, just as Ukraine was."
Russia and the world's future are yet to be played out.
As for Eastern Europe, it would not be stretching credulity too far to say that it has been had,
falling straight into the trap of under-development where it will probably remain for the foreseeable
future.
"... The Servant of the People Party with 43.17% remains in the lead. The Opposition Platform – For Life Party ranks second with 13.01%, Yulia Tymoshenko's Batkivshchyna Party ranks third with 8.18%, Petro Poroshenko's European Solidarity Party has 8.11%, and Svyatoslav Vakarchuk's Holos (Voice) Party has 5.83%. All the other parties failed to get a representative into the Rada. ..."
"... The entire Euromaidan is nothing more than the overthrow of one oligarchic gang by a combination of other oligarchic gangs which used neo-Nazi mobs to seize power. The fact that the USA and the EU backed this typical neo-Nazi coup really means very little: the West has always sided with anybody and everybody who is in some way against Russia. ..."
"... In theory, Zelenskii could "go Putin" and crush the oligarchs. But Zelenskii is no Putin, to put it mildly. Furthermore, the true reason why the Ukrainian oligarchs hate and fear Russia is not because of some supposed Grand-Russian nationalism or imperialism, but because they want to keep the Ukraine in the same dysfunctional and very profitable condition in which this poor country has been kept since 1991 ..."
"... The truth is that Zelenskii has to choose between acting on the will of the people and face the wrath of the neo-Nazis or do the will of the neo-Nazis and face the wrath of the people : tertium non datur ! ..."
"... Ukraine is the classic case of ustashization. A nation (often invented, but doesn't need to be so) with an inferiority complex (because it didn't exist, or failed to demonstrate any reason why it should be kept around) makes it's raison d'etre to be the hatred of the nation(s) it really should belong to. ..."
"... He is not in control – yet – anymore than Trump was in early 2017. (Not sure if Trump is in control now). However, if Ukraine's parliament controls the budget, Zelensky can eventually gain control of the military. The first thing he should do, though, is shut down western NGOs. ..."
"... Judging from my African experiences, the rulers of countries who are powerless invariably start pulling down statues (USA included), renaming streets and changing the Latin spelling of their place names ..."
"... Though the February 2014 US instigated coup put Poroshenko in power much overlooked is that the EU's European Neighborhood Policy exploited this to the hilt by having this puppet regime sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. This agreement is a disaster for Ukraine's economy by creating an exclusive EU-Ukraine trade relation specifically designed to exclude Russia and destroy any existing trade ties with Russia. ..."
"... EU Comissioner Stefan Fule (responsible for implementing the European Neighborhood Policy) knew up front that this agreement would cost Ukraine up to 169 billion US$. The European Neighborhood Policy aims to establish a sphere of dependent non-member states. This is exactly why Yanukovich refused to sign that agreement and was subsequently removed from office. ..."
"... Monsanto, Cargill, Dupont, John Deere/ Iowa St. Univ. { whom I met in Kyiv } , Royal Dutch Shell, Lily Pharma and even China had a deal going for a lease of hundreds of thousands of hectares of Ag land. ..."
"... Much of the Ukie-ville territory can fail fail fail but remember which Globalist Corporations now own the bread basket , the port that they use to export grain, corn, arms, bio-war research, etc. and that these are real boss's of Ukraine. ..."
"... Obviously the deal offered to the coup plotters by Obomber via Nuland and McStain was try to raise as much hell as possible and obstruct Russia to the max and you'll get a handsome reward from Uncle Sam. If this means shooting and blowing up your own citizens in the Russian oblasts by the thousands, chopping your GNP in two through loss of mining, manufacturing, and trade, losing your natural gas transit revenues by relentlessly antagonizing Russia, destroying what industrial infrastructure there was in your pathetic country by five years of artillery barrages against the Donbass so be it. ..."
"... Zelensky is very weak, one of the least powerful leaders in the world today. But it is not just him, he reflects the weakness that took over Ukraine. They have very few options left and time is not on Kiev's side. ..."
"... I've long assessed American Presidents on a spectrum from Figurehead/Pitchman to Real POTUS. During the post-Cold War period they were increasingly the former, with Trump constituting an abrupt turn to the latter. ..."
"... This relationship of the elected/Constitutional leader to the Permanent Government/Administrative State/National Security State/Deep State is universal. ..."
"... Kolomoisky brought him to the helm, which was in essence the same thing as Maidan: several oligarchic clans ganging up on the ones feeding at the trough. The thievery won't stop, just as it did not stop after Maidan. The only thing that is going to change is the personalities of the top thieves. Nazi mobs are stupid (and therefore convenient) tool of oligarchs, just as they were in 2014. ..."
First, almost all the nationalist parties failed to get even one representative elected to
the Rada (Poroshenko's and Timoshenko's parties did get some seats, but only 25 each)
Second, for the first time since the independence of the Ukraine, the country's President
will have an absolute majority in the Rada.
The Servant of the People Party with 43.17% remains in the lead. The Opposition Platform
– For Life Party ranks second with 13.01%, Yulia Tymoshenko's Batkivshchyna Party ranks
third with 8.18%, Petro Poroshenko's European Solidarity Party has 8.11%, and Svyatoslav
Vakarchuk's Holos (Voice) Party has 5.83%. All the other parties failed to get a
representative into the Rada.
Also of interest is the score of the "Opposition Platform – for Life" party
(Rabinovich, Boyko, Medvedchuk) which got a total of 44
seats .
In plain English what this means is that the war parties have suffered a crushing
electoral defeat .
One might be forgiven in thinking that this is fantastic news for Zelenskii, but in fact it
is quite the opposite: this election result creates an extremely dangerous situation for
him.
Why the outcome of elections is extremely dangerous for the Ukraine
The first thing that we need to remember is while the neo-Nazis suffered two crushing
defeats in a row (in the Presidential election and in the Parliamentary elections), they have
not somehow magically disappeared. Here is the key factoid which we must never forget:
The Nazi-occupied Ukraine is not a democracy, but a plutocracy combined with an ochlocracy .
In plain English this means that the Ukraine is ruled by oligarchs, mobs and death
squads .
The entire Euromaidan is nothing more than the overthrow of one oligarchic gang by a
combination of other oligarchic gangs which used neo-Nazi mobs to seize power. The fact that
the USA and the EU backed this typical neo-Nazi coup really means very little: the West has
always sided with anybody and everybody who is in some way against Russia. This has been true
since the Middle-Ages and it is still true today (I would even argue that Hitler's rise to
power was yet another operation by the Anglosphere to try to control the European continent and
the fact that eventually the Nazi golem turned on its intended masters, does not change
that).
The oligarchs are still there, as are the neo-Nazis mobs and death squads. And that creates
an immense problem for Zelenskii: this new Rada might well represent the views of a majority of
the Ukrainian people, but the real power in the country is not concentrated in the Rada
at all: it is in the streets .
Legally speaking, Zelenskii does have the tools to crack down on the oligarchs and the
neo-Nazis, but in practical terms he has nothing. Okay, maybe not quite "nothing", but whatever
power he has is rooted much more in the fact that he has the backing of the ultimate
Uber-oligarch Kolomoiskii (whom many consider to be the real "president" of the Ukraine,
Zelenskii being nothing more than a puppet). Not only that, but Kolomoiskii has many scores to
settle with Poroshenko's gang, and we can be pretty sure that he will want to his enemies to
pay for what they did to him under the previous regime.
So let's sum it up.
The people of the Ukraine desperately want peace . For the time being, the
Rada reflects this overwhelmingly important fact. I say "for the time being" because what will
happen next is that the various forces and individuals who currently support Zelenskii have
done so just to gain power. They do not, however, have a common ideological platform or even a
common program. As soon as things go south (which they will inevitably do) many (most?) of
these folks will turn against Zelenskii and side with whoever can muster the biggest crowds and
mete out the most violence.
In theory, Zelenskii could "go Putin" and crush the oligarchs. But Zelenskii is no Putin, to
put it mildly. Furthermore, the true reason why the Ukrainian oligarchs hate and fear Russia is
not because of some supposed Grand-Russian nationalism or imperialism, but because they want to
keep the Ukraine in the same dysfunctional and very profitable condition in which this poor
country has been kept since 1991. When Putin came to power and cracked down on the Russian
oligarchs, the Ukrainian oligarchs looked in absolute horror at what was happening in Russia,
and they decided to do whatever it takes to prevent that from ever happening in the
Ukraine.
There is a well-known slogan in the Ukraine "Путин
прыйдэ –
порядок навэдэ"
which can be translated as "Putin came and restored order". This is the Ukie oligarch's
ultimate nightmare. As it so happens, it is also the AngloZionist Empire's ultimate nightmare.
Hence the apparently bizarre alliance between Anglos, Zionists and Nazis: they all fear that
Putin will come and restore order to the Ukraine. Add to this the hallucinations of Hillary
("Putin wants to restore the USSR") and Brzezinski ("Russia needs the Ukraine to be a
superpower") and you have a simple and all-encompassing explanation for what we have seen
taking place in the Ukraine since the Euromaidan.
Interestingly, there are even indicators that Putin is very popular with a majority of the
Ukrainian people (see here , here
,
here or
here ). This might, in part at least, explain why Poroshenko's campaign was centered on
the "either me or Putin" concept which, considering the crushing defeat suffered by Poroshenko,
could suggest that Putin was the real winner of the last election or, alternatively, that folks
only voted for Zelenskii as the least pro-war and the most anti-Poroshenko candidate: a kind of
anti-anti-Putin candidate, at least while campaigning. Now that he got elected, Zelenskii
quasi-instantly switched to the exact same rhetoric as what got Poroshenko so severely
defeated. Why?
Because Zelenskiii is afraid that the neo-Nazi mobs and death squads will be unleashed
against him at the very first opportunity. In fact, the neo-Nazis have already begun promising
a new Maidan (see
here or
here ).
Conclusion: Zelenskii has two options, both very dangerous
The truth is that Zelenskii has to choose between acting on the will of the people and
face the wrath of the neo-Nazis or do the will of the neo-Nazis and face the wrath of the
people : tertium non datur !
And if that was not bad enough, there is another factor making this even worse for
Zelenskii: nobody can meaningfully help him.
Ukraine is the classic case of ustashization. A nation (often invented, but doesn't need to
be so) with an inferiority complex (because it didn't exist, or failed to demonstrate any
reason why it should be kept around) makes it's raison d'etre to be the hatred of the
nation(s) it really should belong to.
Once this mind virus sets in I think unpersoning is the only solution. Ukraine is already
larping as a concentration camp/kolhoz, maybe it should be turned into one for real.
A real
"play stupid games win stupid prizes" solution our reality loves so much
I really wish people would give up on the neo-Nazi narrative. Say what you want about the
Nazis, as long as it's factual, but they actually improved the lives of Germans and
Ukrainians. The alleged neo-Nazis aren't interested in stopping the rape of Ukraine, they are
aiding in it. Like Russia, there are many Jewish oligarchs in Ukraine. Are you telling me
neo-Nazis were supporting them?
Before you start with the "brown shirt thugs" bs, the SA was formed to protect NSDAP
members from the communist thugs, who a couple of years previously overthrown the government
and declared Bavaria and Berlin soviet republics. I don't hear of any communists in the
streets of Ukraine.
which forces every person to chose between the Empire (main sponsor of the "Crimea
belongs to the Ukraine forever" reply) and Putin's Russia (in which everybody except the
most terminally stupid liberal politicians reply "Crimea belongs to Russia forever").
Crimea belongs to Crimeans. If they voted to leave Ukraine, they can vote to leave
Russia.
Why in recent weeks do we have a spate of tanker seizures? The game is now pin the tail on
the tanker. They all have one thing in common: John Bolton. The ploy seems to be to provoke
an over-reaction by Iran or Russia. This "aggression" by the new axis of evil would "justify"
US military action against those countries, thus satisfying Bolton's apparent death wish
dreams. The Orange cucker spaniel lets himself be dragged on Bolton's leash, while
celebrating he hasn't been charged with crimes (yet). What about the crime of selling out his
country to moneyed foreign and domestic interests?
"If he did not [order the seizure of the Russian tanker] – then he is not in control."
He is not in control – yet – anymore than Trump was in early 2017. (Not sure
if Trump is in control now). However, if Ukraine's parliament controls the budget, Zelensky
can eventually gain control of the military. The first thing he should do, though, is shut
down western NGOs.
Allow me to remind you who Mr.Zelensky is–he is an entertainer (allegedly a comic,
only few sketches by Kvartal 95 were truly funny) who has, long forgotten and never
practiced, law degree.
In other words–he cannot be in control of anything except for the circus because he
has no knowledge and skills for that. He is merely a figurehead.
Unlike circus, however, where one can observe at least some creative, however low-brow,
activity, Ukraine is not a circus long ago–it is a steadily deteriorating shithole
filled with populace most of which lives in a complete delusion. It is kind of symptomatic
that two mental asylums such as combined West and Ukraine found each-other.
I spent 4 weeks in Odessa/Odesa. Now, I am in my 3rd week in Kharkov/Kharviv.
Judging from my African experiences, the rulers of countries who are powerless invariably
start pulling down statues (USA included), renaming streets and changing the Latin spelling
of their place names. Kiev is now Kyiv apparently – because English-speakers have no
say in the matter. Even if it remains Киев in both Slavic
languages.
All I can say is that it is amazing that tourists from Western Europe are not pouring into
places like Odessa. There are decent beaches nearby. Food, restaurant and transport costs are
a fraction of those in the South of France – or anywhere else in the EU for that
matter. An Uber from downtown to the airport is less than $4 at this moment in time (Friday
8:00PM). The subway in Kharkov costs a flat 32 cents!
Lean beef mince is $1.10 per lb ($3 per kg). In Australia, it is $9/kg.
The girls here are a heck of a lot prettier than in Paris. There are only a handful of
Black students in Kharkov. There are no social handouts so the detritus of the 3rd world does
not willingly come here.
I speak no Russian (Kharkov is really the Russia of Yeltsin) and people are very polite to
me. There is no crime whatsoever (unlike Odessa). You can walk around the centre for days and
hear no English, German, French, Italian, Greek, Spanish etc.
Cocktails in the ritziest of bars is around $5. There is a huge surplus of females. I am
69 and I get looks from girls in their 20's. I guess I look different from the Slavs. I have
no paunch and I still have much of my hair.
I go out in the evening with a handful of cash that is worth very little. When I come
home, my pocket is still full. I am paying $21 per night for a studio with one double and two
single beds in a nice area near the nightlife.
If this is gentle decline, I am all for it. I wish London would go back to the way it was
when I was a student there – 1968-73. I wish Sydney would go back to the way it was
when I first visited in 1978. I wish Cairo were like in the 1950's. And California like in
'69 when I spent 4 months there. and students at UCLA glorified Charles Manson.
@Curmudgeon Yes, the
neo-Nazis support the Jewish oligarchs that fund them. In their minds they're using the
oligarchs not the other way around. It's the same mental gymnastics that Antifa and other
left wing extremists use to justify receiving support and protection from corporations,
universities, and the police.
Crimea belongs to Crimeans. If they voted to leave Ukraine, they can vote to leave
Russia.
That's nice, but Crimeans aren't going to vote to leave Russia. Crimea is inhabited by
Russians and pro-Russian Ukrainians who overwhelmingly desire to be part of Russia. The
Tatars were the only ones against joining Russia and they're a small minority. Crimea is a
region of Russia that due to historical accident was briefly separated from Russia. Crimea is
as likely to vote to join Ukraine as Lvov is to join Russia, and an independent Crimean state
has no cultural or political basis.
Though the February 2014 US instigated coup put Poroshenko in power much overlooked is that
the EU's European Neighborhood Policy exploited this to the hilt by having this puppet regime
sign the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement. This agreement is a disaster for Ukraine's economy
by creating an exclusive EU-Ukraine trade relation specifically designed to exclude Russia
and destroy any existing trade ties with Russia.
EU Comissioner Stefan Fule (responsible for implementing the European Neighborhood Policy)
knew up front that this agreement would cost Ukraine up to 169 billion US$. The European
Neighborhood Policy aims to establish a sphere of dependent non-member states. This is
exactly why Yanukovich refused to sign that agreement and was subsequently removed from
office.
The IMF and EU provided loans to Ukraine and proceeded with imposing the usual "Washington
Consensus" recipe: austerity, liberalization, fire sale of assets resulting in halving GDP
exploding debt and firmly indenturing Ukraine thus losing its political and economic
sovereignty.
Great article – Since I was in Ukraine before, during and after the Maidan, there is
another huge factor involved. President Yanukovych, before running to Russia , was receiving
millions of dollars from the rich Globalist Corporations and some countries. Monsanto,
Cargill, Dupont, John Deere/ Iowa St. Univ. { whom I met in Kyiv } , Royal Dutch Shell, Lily
Pharma and even China had a deal going for a lease of hundreds of thousands of hectares of Ag
land.
China had started to put a port in Crimea and it was real close to where i lived. The
Place was for sale. After the EU deal fell thru lol, and Ukraine fell into a failed state,
and the East Ukrainians were isolated, and Crimea voted to head back to Mother Russia, those
Globalist took over and now own the best parts of Ukraine and are making their money from the
cheap labor along with owning the breadbasket and other corrupt industries. The US Navy ,
moved between Odecca and Crimea and between Cargill and them – they own the port that
exports all the grain, arms, Bio – war labs, etc.. I'm assuming that the Nazi armies
are probably supplying the security to these globalists { Saker would have to verify for this
} and as the Saker confirms , it doesn't much matter what Kyiv says or does – the
Globalists, their Nazis, their partners in Tel Aviv – run the show/circus/scam. Spacibo
UNZ
Good comment
– Much of the Ukie-ville territory can fail fail fail but remember which Globalist
Corporations now own the bread basket , the port that they use to export grain, corn, arms,
bio-war research, etc. and that these are real boss's of Ukraine. LOL
I was on the
Crimea/Ukie border this weekend and a guy was selling Amerikansky corn { cuuka roosa } and he
said some farmers are stealing Monsantos seeds and growing corn on the side. I bought a few
cobs for a buck and it definitely looked and tasted like corn I got – back in the states
– bright dark yellow – not light colored like regular sweet corn I get here. And
the circus – goes on.
The comparative point about Putin and Zelensky vis-a-vis the oligarchs is something Western
mass media has pretty much overlooked. Instead, there's the (otherwise faulty) image of
Ukraine having something positive which Russia lacks.
Obviously the deal offered to the coup plotters by Obomber via Nuland and McStain was try to
raise as much hell as possible and obstruct Russia to the max and you'll get a handsome
reward from Uncle Sam. If this means shooting and blowing up your own citizens in the Russian
oblasts by the thousands, chopping your GNP in two through loss of mining, manufacturing, and
trade, losing your natural gas transit revenues by relentlessly antagonizing Russia,
destroying what industrial infrastructure there was in your pathetic country by five years of
artillery barrages against the Donbass so be it.
I would only ask the Ukrainian "braintrust," has Uncle Sam delivered anything he promised,
other than a few surplus outdated weapons he couldn't pawn off to his Islamic headchopper
mercenaries and some nice gratuities for Porky, Yats, and the other traitors who would play
ball? No question but Uncle got his money's worth in the metastasizing damage he's been able
to do to Russian economic interests–most significantly in cancelling or delaying all
the gas pipelines to Europe–all stemming from how convincingly Ukraine managed to
machine gun itself in all recognizable body parts while blaming its madness on "malign"
actions by Russia. Washington's next big awaited success is to put the kibosh on Nordstream
II by stopping all construction in Danish waters and then instigating lawsuits from the EU
for breach of contract against Russia for failing to deliver product (or so say some
analysts). Oh, and then they'll schlock their LNG to dumb Euro trash at twice the price.
Poland thinks it will become a supplier of American LNG to the EU through a new pipeline it
is building. "Free trade" America remains as persistent as a pack of rabid wolverines in its
goal of strangling all possible trade between Europe and Russia.
Just what is Ukraine gonna get of any value, especially after its gold reserves, fertile
farm land and energy/mineral resources have been put in the hands of the American MIC and
Western corporations? The satisfaction of Russia being sanctioned for the next two centuries?
I will really LMAO if those Western carpetbaggers don't even hire native Ukies to work in the
industries they plan to set up in that country. I think Hunter Biden was meant to be the
prototype. Hell, even the Ukie government, micromanaged by Washington, wouldn't fill
important ministerial positions with native Ukies, opting instead for Russophobic Americans,
Georgians and anyone with an axe to grind against Russia. Europe won't let them join the EU,
since their economy is weaker than that of most third world African countries, and NATO had
better not admit them or face the prospect of World War III the very next day as they invoke
article five after taking pot shots at Russia buoyed by the exuberance of knowing that Uncle
Sam's got their back! American Evangelicals support Israel and wait for the rapture. Poland,
the Baltics and Ukraine drink the Neocon Koolaid and wait for Washington to nuke Russia. More
like the whole planet gets raptured that day, cuz everyone's troubles will be ovah!
@Adam Crimea in Ukraine
would simply mean more bloodshed, does Zelensky really want more fighting?
For those who argue that ' borders in Europe can't be changed ': that ship has
sailed with Kosovo. It is idiotic to support self-determination with massive bombing in
Kosovo and try to deny it in Crimea. Precedent is a precedent.
Zelensky is very weak, one of the least powerful leaders in the world today. But it is not just him, he reflects the
weakness that took over Ukraine. They have very few options left and time is not on Kiev's side. A small regional
quasi-war, emigrating and drinking with surplus left-behind women is probably the best they can do. Even splitting up the
country would now just make worse.
But Maidan sure was fun, right? That Nuland lady had nothing but the well-being of
Ukrainians on her mind.
Oh for God's sake STOP with the bullshit term "neo-nazi" when describing the Jewish led and
paid for Galician street thugs that perpetrated so called 'Euro Maidan'.
They have nothing in common with German NS, except absconding with symbols of the SS so
that the Jooz that perpetrated all this can always say "see, not us, but those wicked Nazis
did all this killing" when the truth inevitably comes out that this was an organized coup,
not a popular revolt.
Meanwhile Saker, go to hell for the stupidity and arrogance of your fevered attempts to
portray the situations in Ukraine as some sort of "oligarchy" attempting to put a
semi-natural and sorta-legit face on what really is JOO LED RAPING OF THE COUNTRY by Nudelman
and her co-Tribal mafioso stooges, Kolomoisky, et al.
the accomplices and co-conspirators in the [Kolomoisky's] scheme include officials of
the IMF, the US and Canadian Governments who knowingly directed billions of dollars into
the NBU, from which, as they knew full well at the time, the money went out to Kolomoisky's
Privat Bank, the largest single Ukrainian recipient of the international cash. At the top
of the list of accomplices, immediately subordinate to Clinton, Nuland and Lagarde, are
David Lipton, the US deputy managing director at the IMF, and the head of the IMF in
Ukraine until 2017, Jerome Vacher.
"The stated purpose for each loan involved in the Optima Schemes was typically for
financing the activities of the ostensible corporate borrower. The Optima Scheme Loans,
however, were sham arrangements and the proceeds were not in fact used for that purpose.
Instead, sometimes within minutes of being disbursed, the loan proceeds were cycled through
dozens of UBO-controlled or affiliated bank accounts at PrivatBank's Cyprus branch
("PrivatBank Cyprus") before being disbursed to one of multiple Delaware limited liability
companies or corporations (or other United States-based entities), all of which were
[controlled by the UBOs]."
"In effect, the UBOs utilized a Ponzi-type scheme: old loans issued by PrivatBank would
be 'repaid' (along with the accrued interest) with new loans issued by PrivatBank, and
those new loans issued by PrivatBank would then be repaid with a new round of loans. The
UBOs and their co-conspirators continuously carried out this process to conceal their
frauds. Thus, proceeds from new PrivatBank loans were used to give the appearance that the
initial PrivatBank loans (along with the accrued interest) were repaid by the borrower when
in fact there was no actual repayment."
A regular Jewish business approved by the ZUSA and IMF. The ordinary Ukrainians will be
forced to pay with whatever is left of the raped and robbed country. In short, looting.
Nobody wants such a treacherous and greedy country like Ukraina .
In 2018 the gross per capita income in Ukraina was down to 2624 euros , and in Bolivia was
3005 euros . Ucrania shows that the IQ of white blond people can be very very low .
Russia does not want Ukraina anylonger , it would be too expensive and risky . Crimea and
Donbass already went back to Russia . Maybe in the future the russian speaking east and south
of Ukraina will beg Russia to take them and pay again the gas and oil for them , but it would
be too expensive and dangerous for Russia .
The EU does not want Ukraina , it would be ruinous , it is already ruinous the admission
in the EU of so many eastern european countries .
As the excellent cartoon shows , the anglo-israelis are the only ones who benefit fron the
ukranian tragedy , they are using Ukraina against Europe , against Russia and against the EU
( fuck the EU said Nuland when she was organizing the coup d`Etat in Kiev ) . Poroshenko and
Zelensky are jewish as well as most of the oligarchs of Ukraina .
Agree that Hitler and the nazis were put in power by the zionist banking cabal as is pointed
out in the book Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony Sutton and in the book The
Crime and Punishment of I. G. Farben by Joseph Borkin and in the book Trading With the Enemy
by Charles Higham, among many others, and the destruction of the Ukraine had the neo-nazis
funded by the same zionist bankers with their front puppets the Nulands , etc. and so the
problems in the Ukraine will never go away unless and until the zionists are thrown out of
the country and only Russia can help with that!
One thing that is a fact, in all countries where there is violence, destruction, and war,
to find the cause look no further than the zionist bankers and we goyim here in America have
the same problem with the zionist bankers since their creation of the FED in 1913 with the
inception of perpetual wars and debt and big brother government all thanks to the satanic
demonic zionist banking kabal.
I've long assessed American Presidents on a spectrum from Figurehead/Pitchman to Real POTUS.
During the post-Cold War period they were increasingly the former, with Trump constituting an
abrupt turn to the latter.
This relationship of the elected/Constitutional leader to the Permanent
Government/Administrative State/National Security State/Deep State is universal.
The cliche "Hindsight is easy," most definitely applies. Does a leader/administration
survive; what of its objectives is it able to achieve. Erdogan and Putin are examples of
leaders able to survive and act in the national interest.
Even more than casual observers such as The Saker have difficulty not lapsing in bias
confirmation. Thus Putin is a brilliant operator but Trump is a clown and sock puppet.
Any observer who has any respect for themselves should exercise some common sense. Trump
has not only survived everything his enemies (pretty much the whole of what I call Globalist
Filth) have thrown at him but he's moved his America First agenda (MAGA!; Global Trade Reset;
America First foreign policy).
I mention this in the current context because Ukraine is such a mess it raises the
question as to what Zelenskii can realistically accomplish. Besides the obvious (staying
alive; finishing his term),
Am I the only one to notice that in 2016 and since the Cold War 2.0 shouters were Radio
Silent about Nord Stream II. That was the gift to Putin for turning a blind eye (or better
assisting) in throwing the election to Hillary. This is likely top of the gift list delivered
by Brennan personally to Moscow in a secret trip in March, 2016.
It's too late for the POTUS to stop Nord Stream II. Instead he's leveraging it with Putin
(and Merkel).
Trump inherited a mess from Obama. Not the least because the former administration put out
the word that everything was on the table for foreign powers willing to assist with Hillary
taking power. Trump is upping the cost to Putin of his close alliance with Xi/China. Whether
it's making Russia (and China) spend money and geopolitical capital propping up the bus
driver in Venezuela or the expense of protecting against close-in NATO capabilities. As the
POTUS says frequently "I've got nothing but time."
How it goes for Ukraine/Zelenskii is wholly a function of the bargaining between the POTUS
and Putin.
@DESERT FOX Don't
understand why I may not yet use the AGREE option.
Hitler and the nazis were put in power by the zionist banking cabal as is pointed out in
the book Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony Sutton and in the book The Crime and
Punishment of I. G. Farben by Joseph Borkin and in the book Trading With the Enemy by
Charles Higham, among many others,
Why so much talk about Zelenskii? He is a nonentity, a clown, by profession and by personal
qualities. When he does not have a script written by someone else, he becomes incoherent. Ze
was best described by Ukrainian rights lawyer Montyan: a hologram.
Kolomoisky brought him to the helm, which was in essence the same thing as Maidan: several
oligarchic clans ganging up on the ones feeding at the trough. The thievery won't stop, just
as it did not stop after Maidan. The only thing that is going to change is the personalities
of the top thieves. Nazi mobs are stupid (and therefore convenient) tool of oligarchs, just
as they were in 2014.
Russian government would be stupid to support any existing force in Ukraine, including
Medvedchuk's Pro Life party. As Russian bloggers often say, there is no reason to look for
differences in various kinds of shit.
The main weakness of Ukrainians is their hope that
someone else will solve their problems for them. That equally applies to those who pin their
hopes on the US and its vassals and to those who look to Russia. The uncomfortable truth is
that either they sort things out themselves, or their "country" will remain the shithole it
was since 1991 and still is.
Pentagon Reject Russian Doctrine Russia slapped NATO. The US Department of Defense said
that there are "challenges" in deterring a threat in Russia's doctrine.
The US Department of Defense said that there are "challenges" in deterring a nuclear
threat in Russia's military doctrine. Thus, according to Pentagon Deputy Head John Oud, the
Russian doctrine states that Russia can use nuclear weapons "without fear" against the United
States and its partners to meet an "adequate response".
Zelensky has a mandate now to begin the process of tearing down the barriers to sanity
Poroshenko left in his wake. The big one being, of course, the war against separatists in the
Donbass.
For the first few months of his presidency Zelensky has sent mixed signals as to what he
intends to do on the world stage. He's offered to meet with Putin, who then asked saliently,
'to what end?'
Zelensky is dealing with the same kind of bureaucratic revolt against change that Donald
Trump has dealt with. In fact, it's the same people running the both shows .
If there was one thing that has become glaringly obvious over the past three years it is
that the coup attempt by the bureaucracy against Trump it is that much of it was cooked up in
Ukraine under the dutiful eye of former President Poroshenko.
With Poroshenko out of the way, there is still the inertia of those he put in important
positions. Ukraine is practically a failed state so don't expect good news. If anything it's
become a playground for outside forces to start more fires as Zelensky tries to stamp out the
ones currently burning.
All of these fires have one goal in mind, keep Ukraine and Russia separated and in conflict.
This is being directed by both U.S. and British interests, if the Steele Dossier tells us
anything.
That is the way these things go. But, that said, what Zelensky can have control over are the
big issues setting Russia and Ukraine at odds. Obviously the Donbass is the big one.
The U.S. is trying to run out the clock on these negotiations by slowing down completion of
Nordstream 2 and put Gazprom in the position of not supplying its written contracts with
Europe. If Nordstream 2 can't deliver and there is no supply agreement with Naftogaz then
Gazprom can't deliver contracted gas for the first time ever.
After securing control over the Verkhovna Rada, the team of Vladimir Zelensky indicated
that it is ready for new gas negotiations with Russia. According to Nezavisimaya Gazeta's
experts, Kiev's decisiveness is explained by the pressure from the European Union and
Ukraine's interest in receiving transit revenues from Russia. Meanwhile, the real chances of
a new transit agreement have grown, the newspaper wrote. Ukrtransgas has not paid for
services since March and its debts threaten the company's stability and question the
reliability of its supplies, the European Federation of Energy Traders (EFET) said.
But none of these issues will be difficult to resolve. Poroshenko left Ukraine at the mercy
of Putin and Gazprom because they need the gas and the transit fees while Russia has Nordstream
2 and Turkstream coming on line next year.
Putin energy embargoed Ukraine earlier in the year making things really dicey for Zelensky.
At the end of the day, however, Putin and Gazprom will negotiate a deal quickly that will pay
Ukraine based on market demand for that gas to satisfy European regulators allaying worries
over Ukraine's finances.
Europe has made it clear it is no longer interested in paying for its failed Ukrainian
project. Europe's gas demand is rising so quickly that there will be room for everyone in the
market. The only thing holding up completion of Nordstream 2 is a final permit from Denmark,
which Gazprom expects to finally receive in October.
Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller is not sanguine about the prospects of a deal as there are
outstanding court cases involved, but the long-term political dividends of signing some kind of
deal, even an extension of the existing one pending a more thorough overhaul, would be
immense.
Getting that problem solved would build trust between Putin and Zelensky and could lead to
unwinding the problems downstream of 2014's U.S. sponsored coup against Viktor Yanukovich.
There are so many forces arrayed within the U.S., UK, northern European and Israeli
governments against reconciliation between Ukraine and Russia that it will be difficult for
Zelensky and Putin to achieve much.
Europe's new leadership, under Ursula von der Leyen, will be more confrontational with
Russia while the jury is out on Boris Johnson's new UK government and whether he can even
remain in power for long.
But it is clear that the people of Europe are tired of these games and want change. The
Ukrainian elections are proof of this. And that, by itself, is something worth cheering.
* * *
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The taking of the Russian tanker as the Parliament prepares to exit is simply the former
government throwing a monkey wrench into the gears and nothing more. Sure its a provocation
and an embarrassment but it will quickly be resolved. Putin is too smart not to know that. It
won't cause that much disruption.
A significant amount of world events we are witnessing are all about a Global Financial
Reset. The world was divided into those who are controlled by the cabal puppet masters, and
those who broke free enough to oppose the oppression of the cabal. US government and its
Presidents for the most part, have been willing cabal puppets and they were paid
handsomely... we were paid handsomely - very few Americans ever complained about the
suffering inflicted across the globe, as Americans were the beneficiaries of cabal
strategies.
The Russia (enemy / opponent) narrative was necessary to foster support for a military
action to quell the cabal opposition - WWIII as so many like to call it, was to take place,
with the support of the US government as the lead. People have to remember, Yanukovich was
trying to align Ukraine against the US Dollar, by aligning with the Russians, as part of the
BRICS+ cabal opposition. His overthrow served multiple purposes: his replacement Poroshenko
was a puppet of the US, and the cabal, aligned again with the US Dollar; the tensions created
reinforced the false narrative of an aggressor Russia / cabal opposition; the oil and gas
mechanism of control was temporarily in the hands of the cabal.
The world has continued to move away from the Dollar, with Trumps victory against the the
cabal puppet HRC, the pace away from the Dollar has accelerated. Something people often don't
acknowledge is, Trump is not just saving the US, he's actually working with the global
opposition against the cabal to save the World. Because the cabal is weaker, Ukraine can have
its own President again, and he will align against the Dollar if he so chooses. Trump in the
meantime, agrees with the rest of the world, it's not particularly honorable or dignified,
for a country to oppress all others for its own benefits. Trump believes in fairness, a fair
competitive environment, and ideally, every nation prospers to the benefit of the nations
people. He said so many times, he wants each nation to be sovereign, having a powerful
economy, and taking care of its people. This is the best way to eliminate the power of the
cabal.
So with moves like this, you can expect more de-Dollarization, and less global military
conflict.
NK was a CIA / cabal controlled nation and the nation has been liberated. They are now
mostly a sovereign nation and their economy will be re-energized.
Iran is a CIA / cabal controlled nation and this nation has not yet been liberated - the
puppets keep clinging to power and attempting to start military conflict to topple the cabal
opposition. But Trump will not and other free nations will not engage in war with Iran unless
they are absolutely forced to. More likely, the ninjas will be sent in to take control away
from the puppets, and hand it over to someone the people choose.
Various countries in the M.E. need cleanup, but that will be dealt with once the cabal
puppets are marginalized.
Ultimately, the goal is every nation on the planet will be free of cabal control and will
be making economic decisions based on what's good for them. Assets of the cabal will be
confiscated or devalued or written off, and the debt will be relieved, the nations currencies
recalibrated.
So these steps we are watching - they are not about oil or gas or a port, they are about
the struggle to eliminate the bully that keeps threatening your family. And with people being
elected in Italy, UK, France, Ukraine... the tide is turning against Spain, Germany, Poland,
etc. Fewer countries under cabal control, more countries sovereign. That trend will continue
and the take down of the cabal Pedophile rings, slave trade, drug trade, false economics,
currency devaluation / money printing / asset suppression / Crypto BS, etc, will collectively
make it impossible for the cabal to run any region. Except maybe someone like the Kurds,
Israel, and such.
By the way, I believe strongly, Israel will be made to heel, the regime there will be
changed, and the borders fixed, and the criminals indicted. It's the last step in the process
- building the framework and momentum to take down the palaces - City or London, Vatican, DC,
and Israel. Watch with this in mind.
Putrid, is that you? It's been a year since we heard from you in ZH. Fur n00bs look up
Cathal "Philosophy of Capitalism" Putrid https://www.amazon.com/Reset-Philosophy-Capitalism-
3/dp/1546805605/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=putrid+big+reset&qid=1564144150&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0
Relevant, whether its your post or another good thinker.
that the people of Europe are tired of these games and want change.
that's where the article sucks. "People" are an unorganized mass of complete idiots,
feeling free and fully in charge while being herded into a hilarious voting ritual every 4-6
years. Absolutely ******* nothing else. If someone, say Victoria 'Doughnut' Nuland - with the
help of 5 billion US tax payer funded US$ - manages to drive the "people" over another cliff
and do something different than "voting", that mass of complete idiots is either called
rebells (paid by Nato and Mossad) or terrorists (not paid by Nato or Mossad).
Ukrtransgas has not paid for services since March and its debts threaten the company's
stability and question the reliability of its supplies, the European Federation of Energy
Traders (EFET) said
Don't worry my people of the sovereign and independent states of the E.U the new Jewish
leadership/comedy act in the Ukraine will quickly request extortionate loans from the ECB and
WB to be paid back by the impoverished peasants. All will be fixed for generations to
come.
...and they still have the guile to call Putin a bad actor- geez
On the planet I live on the Ukraine government is totally broke, in debt and funded with
billions of dollars from the US State Dept stolen from US taxpayers illegally. They didn't
pay to interfere in US elections, our State Dept paid them to interfere in US elections, a
violation of the US State Dept charter which should be criminally prosecuted.
Zelensky is dealing with the same kind of bureaucratic revolt against change that Donald
Trump has dealt with. In fact, it's the same people running the both shows.
Article overlooks at least one elephant in the room: The EU-Ukraine association agreement
setting Ukraine up for an exclusive trading relation with the EU. This is part of the EU
European Neighborhood Policy guiding non-member states into a dependent position in relation
to the EU.
UKRAINE 1. Not only was Poroshenko beaten by Anybody at All but the latter's instant support
party won a majority on Sunday. In second place an eastern party; the Galicians, nazis and
former Big Wheels were left in the dust. The only conclusion is that the voters of Ukraine are
sick and tired of the last five years; the West's project in Ukraine has failed.
And for the second time: Yushchenko was also scornfully rejected. Now what? The so-called
NGOs (Washington
puppets all) have given President Zelensky "red lines" – an obvious threat that there
will be another "spontaneous" revolt if he tries to make peace and have a normal relationship
with Russia. He is in office, without a tail and with only the support of the population and
how many guns do they have? Three reasons for cautious optimism
1) Washington allowed the elections to happen without interfering
2) Trump shows little interest in Ukraine 3) the EU has its own problems. So maybe... if
Zelensky does want to change course, if he moves quickly and decisively, if he can get backing
from some power agency, if the West keeps out, if the rebels in the east want to be in some new
Ukraine, if the nazis hold off... Probably too many ifs;
Ukraine's nightmare is not over. I still think the end state will be a rump Ukraine with the
other bits eaten by its neighbours. Post 1991 Ukraine has been pretty miserable for its
unfortunate inhabitants; who really wants a re-do?
UKRAINE 2. A couple of weeks ago
Zelensky proposed a bill to remove high-ranking officials who held their posts during the
Poroshenko period – Poroshenko having lustrated the Yanukovych period. In short, he's
proposing that nobody who's held high office in Ukraine before can hold it again. Which is a
very interesting proposal indeed; even a reasonable one given their dismal performance. He now
has the parliamentary majority to make it law. But again, there are questions: nobody knows who
the newly elected members of his party really are and there are the suspicions that
he's just Kolomoisky's creature and all that has happened is that a new batch of robbers
has arrived in Kiev to steal what's left. I hate to fall back on the feeble analyst's
conclusion but time will tell.
and all that has happened is that a new batch of robbers has arrived in Kiev to steal
what's left.
This is precisely who they are--Ukrainian "elite" can only reproduce this type. Yes,
Ukraine will end up as a rump and, most importantly, Russia doesn't want to pay even for that
and by Russia I mean majority of Russians, including power elite.
a. The IMF will suddenly decide that Ukraine is not making serious enough efforts in its
anti-corruption drive, and something something money laundering. The latest tranche will be
delayed.
b. Western prosecutors will start taking a deep and abiding interest in Kolomoiskii's
financial activities.
c. Assassination. There are a lot of Galicians lurking around with weaponry, something
something, what a tragedy.
d. Maidan 3.0. See the above comment about Galicians with weaponry.
e. Something else. The tanker seizure was clearly intended to force Ze to stay on
side.
TL;DR: Trump may take little interest in Ukraine, but his neocons in the State Department
do, and they are not about to throw up their proverbial hands and say "Oh well, I guess we
lost fair and square then".
Ukrainian nation is a separate nation with a distinct and rich culture. You can call them Southern Russians but still they are
distinct. That does not mean that Russian language should be suppressed and eliminated from schools, the policy
advocated and implemented by Western Ukrainian nationalists. a better policy would to introduce English language from the first
grade. Attempt to eliminate Russian is viewed by Eastern Ukrainians as the attempt of colonization (which it is) and in a
long run can have the opposite effect like any colonization project.
Two languages can coexist. Ireland and Canada does not stop being distinct countries because they use English language. And
very few people in Canada would support switching to French. Many prominent Russian writers have Ukrainian origin (Nikolai
Gogol, Mikhail Bulgakov). Elimination of Russian destroy
common cultural space (which enriches all participating nations not only Russia) establishing during the USSR years and
shrink this common the cultural space.which for Ukraine mean complete domination in Ukrainian cultural space of US culture and
Hollywood with all its excesses and warts.
The break of economic cooperation with Russia after EuroMaydan was Washington policy with willing implementers in the
face of comprador column (Yatsenyuk, Poroshenko) and Western Ukrainian nationalists, which run the
government after EuroMaydan. Among other thing this implies the attempt of colonization of Eastern Ukraine (via forceful Ukrainization) which
backfired with the election of Zelensky.
Notable quotes:
"... Zelensky is of Jewish heritage and from the east Ukraine. He speaks Russian, not Ukrainian. ..."
"... I doubt that Trump cares about Ukraine so the main supporter of the coup is not interested ..."
"... But Zelensky is a new guy without any tail moving into a poisonous and dangerous area without allies (other than the voters of course, but how many guns do they have?) ..."
"... Zelensky didn't 'accidentally' become president. He is a front for Kolomoisky who, amongst other things, wants revenge on Poroshenko. Kolomoisky had vaste swathes of property confiscated under Poroshenko. These were all returned a short while back. Kolomoisky probably wants to dump all post-Maidan stuff on Poroshenko, especially MH17 (which Kolomoisky stated to be 'a trifle' and 'the wrong plane was hit'). Lawsuits against Poroshenko have been started. What happens depends on how much loyalty Poroshenko can buy versus that bought by Kolomoisky. ..."
"... Helmer on Kolomoisky and the vast money stolen with collaboration of Lagarde and Clintons, and the resulting suit, which appears to be aimed at keeping Zelensky on the reservation... ..."
"... "A new Delaware state court filing a month ago, triggering new US media reports, appears to signal a shift in US Government policy towards Kolomoisky. Or else, as some Ukrainian policy experts believe, it is a move by US officials to put pressure on the new Ukrainian President, Volodymyr Zelensky, whom Kolomoisky supported in his successful election campaign to replace Poroshenko." ..."
"... It is interesting to read commenters not understanding the concept of colonial outposts like HK, SK, Japan and the attempts to make the Ukraine such. To empire they represent outposts to challenge the adjoining countries that are not part of empire. look at Puerto Rico. Empire favored it and even paid for citizens to go to college free.....until it didn't work to help make Cuba look bad....and so now it is being discarded like a dirty rag. ..."
"... The Gordian knot in Ukraine is that, after Maidan, the Ukrainian Armed Forces essentially dissolved. The neonazi militias then became the only enforcing power for whatever was left of the Ukrainian government -- that's why Poroshenko, albeit elected, could do nothing to stop those militias from doing whatever they pleased (even though he not being a neonazi himself). ..."
"... Ukraine's economy is in absolute tatters. The Ukrainian government just didn't completely dissolve after Maidan because the USA is using the IMF to artificially keep it afloat (which goes completely against the IMF chart, as was the case with Macri's Argentina, where even the legal borrowing limits were extrapolated by a more than 100% margin). ..."
"... Irrespective of evidence, this is Ukraine, and Kolomoisky's influence on Zelensky can safely be assumed. ..."
"... The issue with the association agreement offered by the EU was not just that it offered little. As I recall it meant access for all EU products to the post-Soviet trading block. There would be nothing to prevent EU exporting anything through Ukraine into Russia. ..."
"... Needless to say, Yanukovych's real options have never been discussed much, and Russia has been blamed for the EU's Economic trap. ..."
"... what does Ukraine have to offer Russia? Aside from putting some space between Russia and NATO, what is left of Ukraine after all of this that they can offer? ..."
"... The Soviet Union built up a large amount of high tech and high value industry in Ukraine, but most of that has rusted away since 1991. Russia has found or developed new sources for most of what they previously bought from Ukraine, and those sources are domestic so Russia is unlikely to trade them in for products made from neglected and mostly defunct Ukrainian industries. ..."
"... That Ukraine has to be considered as both a bridge and a no alliance's land between the West and Russia has always been a no-brainer to me ..."
"... As for Zelensky, he has the backing of the people, such a backing that a 3rd colour revolution would be immediately opposed by a bigger counter-manifestation. Besides, he should seek the backing of the rank and file of the Ukrainian army, just in case things go very badly with the fascists; considering his vast support among the people, the upper echelons of the military might not like or follow him, but if he gives orders, the core troopers would. ..."
"... "Revealing Ukraine" documentary aka "В борьбе за Украину" (which includes the interview in Kremlin released 19 July, minus the Skirpal comments) was released in Ukrainian and Russian, 17, 19 July. The version in those languages is eg here, https://my.mail.ru/mail/stelskov/video/235/5800.html ..."
"... "One hopes that Zelensky is smart enough to foresee a "third Maidan". He should kick out all of them from the police and other forces. He should also raise the police pay. He will need their loyalty sooner than he might think." ..."
"... For newcomers, here is the TC-18-01, the American manual for Unconventional Warfare (published in 2010; leaked in 2012): Training">https://nsnbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/special-forces-uw-tc-18-01.pdf">Training Circular No. 18-01: Special Forces Unconventional Warfare, For the color revolution manual, see Gene Sharp's famous book (From Dictatorship to Democracy, 1994). ..."
"... The Holodomor was real, but then again, so were Stalin's purges in that same era (a little later) and Stalin's ethnic forced migrations from 1930 to 1949. ..."
"... While this doesn't excuse these acts, people should keep in mind that the Soviet Union was under tremendous external and internal pressure at the time. Acts of economic warfare tend to be poorly documented in history - for example, China's famines in the 1960s were exacerbated by a US embargo on wheat imports to China. ..."
"... Ultimately, however, the main reason the Western Ukrainians don't like Russia is because they've always believed Ukraine should be a nation in its own right. The large contingent of Ukrainians in Canada, for example and including its present foreign minister, were fighting for the Germans against Russia in World War 2 under the SS , no less. ..."
"... Pre 2014 the Chinese were attracted by the opportunity of a deep water port in Crimea, the sea is too shallow into Ukraine proper. ..."
"... Is it a feature of the "rules based international order" that unelected NGOs can establish "red-lines" on policy and expect adherence? ..."
"... What Ukraine has to offer, William Gruff, if the Biden clan has not stolen it, is some of the best agricultural land in the temperate world. ..."
"... there is the matter of saving those lands from the scourges of American agriculture-GMOs, Roundup et al. ..."
"... This is certainly true: the survivors of the 14th Waffen SS Galicia Division and their dependents, hangers on and sundry war criminals on the lam certainly came to Canada where they sold their votes en bloc to the Federal Liberal Party. In Alberta they came to control inter alia the University of Alberta. ..."
"... But long before these people came over immigration from Ukraine, including Mennonites, brought their traditional skills and agricultural knowledge to, most notably the Prairies. They knew about growing wheat in the climatic conditions here. They also brought traditions of collective organisation -- they tended to be very left wing, co-operators and were among the founders of the Communist Party and the CCF. ..."
"... "Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?" They aren't, Jackrabbit. Grow up, for Christ's sake, and put these cheap racist cracks behind you. Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. God willing that is now going to change. ..."
"... The main reason, but never disclosed by our corporate press in the West, was the total unacceptable ( hence fullty understandable) of an either/or demand choosing between EU and Russia cooperation btw the lines, as well as an article about military cooperation. Which of course would also exclude Russian partnership. ... that set the stage the humble and charming Mrs "Fuck EU" Nudelman and her cookies at Maidan square. ..."
"... The very fundamental principles of peace, understanding and cooperation of EU was betrayed by their President Baroso. When you add that to the financial rape of Greece by Goldman Sachs & co on his watch, one should think he deserved being executed for high treason! Civil war in Ukraine & and looting of the people of Greece... But guess what... He went directly from EU to .. GOLDMAN SACHS! ..."
"... I appreciate that good concise timeline and explanation of what has happened in Ukraine. I remember finding online a live 24/7 camera feed from Kiev during the Maidan coup, and the fascination but horror of watching the western backed Right Sector thugs wearing neo-nazi Wolfsangel insignias carry out atrocities in real time. ..."
"... Watching what happened live and then following western media disinformation and outright lies was the final slap in the face for me that the corporate media had finally given up any pretenses of journalistic standards. Winter 2013/2014 it finally gasped its last breath and the last nails were hammered into the coffin. From then on we've had non-stop blatantly false narratives presented, with the nutty bogus Russiagate fiction now consuming three years(!) of coverage. ..."
"... Zelensky himself had to brush up on his Ukrainian to be able to run a campaign, which he managed to do with his talents and scripts. ..."
"... Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. No. Ukraine is being run by it's West-leaning leadership and US/NATO is partnered with that leadership. I'm suggesting that Jews are among the most reliably pro-Western people in Ukraine. After all, the "Empire" that you refer to is known as the "Anglo-Zionist Empire". ..."
"... I recall watching the 2014 crisis and civil war in real time. Felt WW-III was upon us. Couldn't believe the outright lies of all Western media and was the straw that broke the back of any remaining faith I had in NYT, The Guardian, BBC, ABC (Australian) etc. The Odessa Massacre was biggest turning point for me. http://stormcloudsgathering.com/the-odessa-massacre-what-really-happened/ ..."
"... In 2014, if I presented evidence against the official Western Ministry of Truth (yeah see the typo but seems worth leaving) on Ukraine I'd get a righteous backlash and called a Putin apologist etc. These days there's blank inward stare of cognitive dissonance, subtle agreement and desire to change topic. Such is the nature of Stockholm Syndrome. ..."
"... My understanding is that of Paora and bevin; there were famines in the Soviet Union, including in Ukraine. The Holodomor myth, if not started there, was massively promoted in the 30s by ... drumroll ... the Hearst empire. ..."
"... Note to snake: not 32 million, but around 5-7 million, probably laughable in itself. (A reference I found for the Ukraine SSR in the 1930s indicates that the population grew during the 1930-33 period, but that should probably be read with great care. It would probably require a study in itself.) ..."
"... On another, but not entirely irrelevant matter, I've always found this wikipedia entry to be vastly entertaining. It gives me a good chuckle to think of Ukrainization -- the promotion of Ukrainian language and culture -- as a communist plot. (It's not a perfect analogy, but it's close enough for a laugh, considering the present.) (And yes, I know it's Wikipedia, but their prejudices lean generally in the other direction.) ..."
"... The extreme right-wing politicians, who gained notoriety after the Maidan coup, prohibited the use of the Russian language which more than 50% of the Ukrainians speak ..."
"... Russian is still spoken in large parts of Ukraine, including Odessa. The main tourist attraction in Odessa, a beach community known as Arcadia, still uses the Russian word at its entrance. Street signs are still in Russian. People speak Russian. ..."
"... The only thing is they made Ukrainian the official language. Everyone must learn it. It is the same in Russia - everyone must learn Russian, even in Chechnya. It is in the nature of a country to have a universal language whereby everyone in the country may communicate. There is nothing whatsoever radical or even unusual about this. ..."
"... As to Yanukovych, he was widely hated by everyone for his total corruption. Even Russians. I lived in Ukraine at that time - mostly in Sevastopol, which was then 90+% Russian (and of course now is part of Russia). Everybody hated him and thought he was utterly corrupt and stole from the people. His thugs would literally walk into a private business with guns and tell the owner "I am buying half your business for $50, here are the papers, sign them now". That is how he operated. Of course they did not want the L'viv folks staging a coup, but the hatred for the corrupt Yanukovych was truly national. ..."
"... All those who say that Zelenski is a puppet or front for Kolomoiski should remember that a certain VV Putin came to power as a puppet or front for Boris Berezovski. And we all know how that (BB) ended. So let's hope for the best - can't get much worse anyway. And Zelenski seems to have acted very smartly so far. Good luck to him - he'll need it! ..."
"... It's my understanding that those Ukrainians who most fervently believe in the Holodomor (that the Soviet govt under Joseph Stalin deliberately targeted ethnic Ukrainians with famine and starvation) live in that part of the modern Ukraine that was under fascist Polish rule in the 1930s. ..."
"... From my own reading, the famines of the early 1930s affected large parts of eastern Ukraine across southen European Russia into Kazakhstan. ..."
"... There's plenty of sources documenting the Ukrainian laws passed since 2014 prohibiting or restricting Russian language in various sectors, including official use, public education, even in films. b was correct in his assessment, and I have no idea where the "hate" accusation came from. I would normally not link to the awful Telegraph of UK, but I assume this story from just three months ago isn't fake news. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/25/ukraine-passes-law-against-russian-language-official-settings/ ..."
"... Most probably, Mariupol 2014-05-09. People wanted to celebrate V-Day, but "democratic" Oleg Lyashko and his "men in black" drove in at attacked demonstration. Local police tried to protect citizens and was ambushed in their own HQ (that very burning house), making last stand. ..."
"... Famines were common in the pre-industrial world. They occured often in the ancient world -- where cities and villages literally disappeared in a matter of decades because of one bad crop and/or one plague (plagues are a side-effect of sedentarism) ..."
"... Wheatcroft uses the 1920s demographic tendency in order to infer "excess deaths" in the USSR in 1932, but he misses the bigger picture: you have to take into account Russian demographic movements in the long term, taking into consideration the cyclic famines. Just to crop a short period from 1926-1932 is scientifically dishonest. ..."
"... It is very unlikely the 1932 famine was an extraordinary famine. The 1937 census registered a population growth in relation to 1926. This alone discards genocide, because, even though excess deaths ocurred (as is the rule in famines), that meant women still had time and resources to biologically reproduce above the population replacement levels. ..."
"... To understand the most important fact of what happened to Ukraine and why, you need to know about the yank neocon PNAC, which trumps (excuse the pun) all: The Project for the New American Century, and the original neocon (jew) wolfowitz doctrine, as revealed in the NYT in 1992: www.nytimes.com/1992/03/08/world/us-strategy-plan-calls-for-insuring-no-rivals-develop.html ..."
"... Russia at the moment is correctly perceived as the main opponent to the usa, china too as upcoming, in line with the above, & PNAC is part of trying to keep Russia in its place: 'part of the American mission will be "convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests."' And 'to deter any nation or group of nations from challenging American primacy'. And 'a world in which there is one dominant military power whose leaders "must maintain the mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role."' Note 'regional' insofar as it concerns Russia wrt ukraine. ..."
"... Also this is why the USG used Maidan (with at least $5 bn - said nuland/jewland, married to the co-founder of PNAC kagan, another jew) against Russia, to cause it problems and to be a thorn in the flesh. ..."
"... Recall the posters in previous threads defending the empire's color revolution attempts in Hong Kong and match the names up with posters here. Are they trying to offer defense of the empire's color revolutions in Ukraine, or do you think they are off-duty now and posting with the sincere intention of initiating open discussion? Do you honestly think you can change their minds by engaging with them and pointing out the flaws in their facts and their logic when it is their job to defend the actions of the empire? ..."
"... Too complex? Let's try the Maidan snipers: We are expected to believe that the killers were police or Berkut snipers. What was their motive? Presumably to stop the protests. If that was their motive, then why did the snipers stop sniping before dispersing the protests? If the snipers were trying to end the protests, then why did they shoot just enough to inflame further protests, but not enough to discourage the protests? ..."
"... The answer is simple: The police and/or Berkut were not the Maidan snipers in Kiev. The snipers were provocateurs who intended to amplify the protests. ..."
Ukraine Election - Voters Defeat Second Color RevolutionVanWoland , Jul 22
2019 18:55 utc |
1
The Ukraine, translated as 'the borderlands, lies between core Russia and the Europe's
western states. It is a split country. Half the population speaks Russian as its first
language. The industrialized center, east and south are culturally orthodox Russians. Some of
its rural western parts were attached to the Ukraine only after World War II. They have
historically a different culture.
The U.S., supported by the EU, used this split - twice - to instigate 'revolutions' that
were supposed to bring the Ukraine onto a 'western' course. Both attempts were defeated when
the Ukrainians had the chance of a free vote.
The 2004 run-off election for the president of the Ukraine was won by Viktor Yanukovych.
The U.S. disliked the result. Its proxies in Ukraine alleged alleged fraud and instigated a
color revolution. As a result of the 'Orange Revolution' the vote was re-run and the other
candidate, Viktor Yushchenko, was declared the winner. But five years later another vote
defeated the U.S. camp. Yanukovych was declared the winner and became president.
In 2014 the European Union made an attempt to bind the Ukraine to its side through an
association agreement. But what the EU offered to Ukraine was paltry and Russia countered it.
Unlike the Ukraine, which continues to get robbed by its oligarchs ever since its 1991
independence, Russia was economically back and in a much better position. It offered billions
in investments and long term loans. Much of Ukraine's industry depends on Russia and Russian
gas was offered to the Ukraine for less than the international market price. Yanukovych, who
originally wanted to sign the EU association, had no choice but to refuse it, and to take the
much better deal Russia offered.
The U.S. and the EU intervened. They again launched a color revolution, but this time it
was one that would use force. Militarily trained youth from Galicia in the west Ukraine was
bused into Kiev to occupy the central Maidan place and to violently fight the police. Snipers
from Georgia were brought in to fire on both sides. It was then
falsely
alleged that government forces were killing the 'peaceful protesters'.
Yanukovych lost his nerves and fled to Russia. After some
illegal political maneuvers new elections were called up and the oligarch Petro
Poroshenko, bought off by the 'west', was declared the winner. The unreconstructed fascists
from Galicia took over. The population in the industrial heartland in east Ukraine, next to
Russia's border, revolted against the new rulers. A civil war,
not a 'Russian
invasion' , ensued which the Ukrainian government largely lost. Lugansk and Donbas became
rebel controlled statelets which depend of Russia. Russia took back Crimea, which in 1954 had
been illegally gifted to Ukraine by then Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, himself a
Ukrainian.
To end the war in the east Ukraine, the French, German and Russian leaders pressed
Poroshenko to sign a peace agreement with the eastern leaders. But the Minsk agreement was
seen as a political defeat and Poroshenko never implemented it. The war in the east simmered
on ever since. The extreme right-wing politicians, who gained notoriety after the Maidan
coup, prohibited the use of the Russian language which more than 50% of the Ukrainians speak.
All opposition was harshly suppressed.
The oligarchs continue their plunder. Everything of value gets sold off to EU countries.
The U.S. is allowed to build bases. Corruption, already endemic, further increased. The
people came to despise Poroshenko.
In an attempt to regain support, Poroshenko
launched a military provocation in the Kerch Strait which is under Russian control. The
stunt
was too obvious . Russia nabbed the sailors Poroshenko had send and confiscated their
boats. No one came to Poroshenko's help.
One can watch the full story of the above in UKRAINE ON FIRE - The Real Story (vid), a
just released 90 minutes long Oliver Stone documentary. An updated version of the documentary
was supposed to run on the Ukraine TV station of pro-Russian oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk. The
TV stations was
forced to cancel it after right-wing groups mortared its its building in Kiev.
On March 31 new elections were held. Volodymyr Zelensky, a TV comedian who played a
teacher who accidentally became president, won the first round. Zelensky is of Jewish
heritage and from the east Ukraine. He speaks Russian, not Ukrainian.
An admirable summary.
What's next? There are three causes for cautious optimism
1. The elections were actually allowed to happen without Washington's interference; see 2
2. I doubt that Trump cares about Ukraine so the main supporter of the coup is not
interested
3. EU has its own problems.
But Zelensky is a new guy without any tail moving into a poisonous and dangerous area
without allies (other than the voters of course, but how many guns do they have?)
But you're absolutely correct to see this as the voters gain rejecting a "colour
revolution"imposed from outside
Fine work here, Bernhard. Analysis as clear and cool as a mountain stream.
And now for the march of the Fascists led by the Iron Maidan of Galicia, Chrystia Freeland
employing all Canada's power and credibility to restore the Galician Nazis from whose loins
she came.
Excellent review b, thanks! With the political sea change, Ukraine has an opportunity to
progress, but somehow those pushing and believing their false narrative will need to be
neutralized. It appears the best way forward is to implement the Minsk2 agreements and go
forward from there.
Zelensky didn't 'accidentally' become president. He is a front for Kolomoisky who, amongst
other things, wants revenge on Poroshenko. Kolomoisky had vaste swathes of property
confiscated under Poroshenko. These were all returned a short while back. Kolomoisky probably
wants to dump all post-Maidan stuff on Poroshenko, especially MH17 (which Kolomoisky stated
to be 'a trifle' and 'the wrong plane was hit'). Lawsuits against Poroshenko have been
started. What happens depends on how much loyalty Poroshenko can buy versus that bought by
Kolomoisky.
Kolomoisky will be looking for alternative sources of loot (eg reconstruction funds) which
will only happen if the Donbass situation is wound down. Zelensky has unexpectedly announced
that there will be a political solution to the issue of Russian sailors captured before the
Kerch incident (and one factor in Russia's response to it) in exchange for those held in
Russia. For all this to happen, the neo-Nazis will have to be defused, which may not be as
difficult as it would appear as they are funded and orchestrated by the Ukraine
oligarchs.
Helmer on Kolomoisky and the vast money stolen with collaboration of Lagarde and Clintons,
and the resulting suit, which appears to be aimed at keeping Zelensky on the reservation...
"A new Delaware state court filing a month ago, triggering new US media reports, appears
to signal a shift in US Government policy towards Kolomoisky. Or else, as some Ukrainian
policy experts believe, it is a move by US officials to put pressure on the new Ukrainian
President, Volodymyr Zelensky, whom Kolomoisky supported in his successful election campaign
to replace Poroshenko."
It is interesting to read commenters not understanding the concept of colonial outposts
like HK, SK, Japan and the attempts to make the Ukraine such. To empire they represent outposts to challenge the adjoining
countries that are not part of empire.
look at Puerto Rico. Empire favored it and even paid for citizens to go to college
free.....until it didn't work to help make Cuba look bad....and so now it is being discarded
like a dirty rag.
Ukraine needed to get out of the rut it has been in and look forward somehow, even if there
are no great changes that happen in the country, much of the previous political heaviness
seem gone, for now at least. It should be a good difference. Thanks for the report.
The Gordian knot in Ukraine is that, after Maidan, the Ukrainian Armed Forces essentially
dissolved. The neonazi militias then became the only enforcing power for whatever was left of
the Ukrainian government -- that's why Poroshenko, albeit elected, could do nothing to stop
those militias from doing whatever they pleased (even though he not being a neonazi himself).
Zelensky will have the same problem: he can pass how much bills he wants -- only those who
the neonazi militias want to be implemented will be enforced. He needs to assemble a brand
new Armed Forces -- with amateur volunteers if necessary -- if he wants to survive: his
Jewish origin alone is already a death certificate for him in the eyes of the neonazis.
The other ace Zelensky has in his hand is the Donbass (Lughansk + Donestk). Those happen
to be the most pro-Russian provinces and also, by far, the two most rich and industrialized
ones. To make things even better, they also happen to be the two provinces that border with
Russia. This peculiar geopolitic configuration is a gift of destiny that, for example,
Brazil, didn't have.
Ukraine's economy is in absolute tatters. The Ukrainian government just didn't completely
dissolve after Maidan because the USA is using the IMF to artificially keep it afloat (which
goes completely against the IMF chart, as was the case with Macri's Argentina, where even the legal borrowing limits were
extrapolated by a more than 100% margin). Russia just needs to wait.
Note: as for the toppled Lenin statues. Please, continue: in one of his birthdays, the
Soviet population made a mass homage to him, gathering in the Red Square and writing him
poems. He was very embarrassed and hated it -- his rationalization was that the Revolution's
main actor was the poeple, not him, and that personality cult was the wrong way to perceive
reality of the times.
2 quibbles. Irrespective of evidence, this is Ukraine, and Kolomoisky's influence on Zelensky
can safely be assumed.
The issue with the association agreement offered by the EU was not just that it offered
little. As I recall it meant access for all EU products to the post-Soviet trading block.
There would be nothing to prevent EU exporting anything through Ukraine into Russia. This is
why the Russians expected to be part of a negotiating group, and why eventually Yanukovych
belatedly realised that EU association would lead direct to dissociation with ex-Soviet
trading partners and an economic catastrophe for Ukraine. Not so much Russia dissuading Kiev
as Kiev taking an inordinate length of time to realise the blatantly obvious.
Needless to say, Yanukovych's real options have never been discussed much, and Russia has
been blamed for the EU's Economic trap.
Thing is, in Ukraine as much as in the US, EU, India, or wherever: For a Politician to make a
campaign for a high political position, let alone the highest, one NEEDS Money.
And where is a someone financing a politician, they make themselves vurnable. Thats the
nature of it: No one will give you even a penny, let alone dozens of millions of dollars, if
not for something in return.
So someone HAS to put the money into him, and Kolomoisky is reported not only by NATO, but by
Russian sources too.
Why do i say this? Because i want to have my point that everyone is corrupt, and the world
is dystopia. No, not today:
It is because those "civil organisations" already hinted, that they use Kolomoisky's
financing as the attack vector, should the Ukraine dare to stray off from NATO course.
They said something of the likes of: "We heard of the allegations that Kolomoisky is
having him in his pocket, and we always want to ensure that politics are not corrupted, so we
will watch it". They said that AFAIK some days before the recent threath, so maybe there has
been some signs he does not want to play ball with NATO.
But we will see.. With the US you never know, even more with Donald and his best buddy
neocons.
b says: "The Ukraine can not economically survive without good relations with Russia."
That is true, but what does Ukraine have to offer Russia? Aside from putting some space
between Russia and NATO, what is left of Ukraine after all of this that they can offer?
The
Soviet Union built up a large amount of high tech and high value industry in Ukraine, but
most of that has rusted away since 1991. Russia has found or developed new sources for most
of what they previously bought from Ukraine, and those sources are domestic so Russia is
unlikely to trade them in for products made from neglected and mostly defunct Ukrainian
industries.
Ukraine can go crawling back home to Russia (home being the place where they take you back
in even after you've been a total jerk), but there will be no massive bailout and magical
recovery. Eastern Ukraine will benefit from a peace dividend, but western Ukraine will have
to be satisfied with European sex tourism, with Lvov remaining the gay prostitute capital of
the continent.
@B: One Correction if i see it right: I think linked Documentary "Ukraine on fire" is NOT the
new one, he already made a doc about Ukraine some time ago, and this is it.
The new one is Not released yet, i mean the one with the Interview you posted few days ago.
The new one will be named Revealing Ukraine, and is just released.
Search your torrent search engine or tracker of choice for it for a HD release. Not on
youtube yet AFAIK.
Sorry, last post: Please barflies, for those you want to support those documentarys, vote for
them on IMDB and write reviews if you saw them. They are being attacked from NATO bots and
voted down to C-Movie level. If you dont want BS like Fast & Furious have better ranking
as those anti-mainstream docs, please take your time and support them!
They are pretty much the only documentarys in mainstream US media that tell the other side!
That Ukraine has to be considered as both a bridge and a no alliance's land between the West
and Russia has always been a no-brainer to me. One that should be imposed from outside if
necessary, if some Ukrainians are foolish enough to pick a side - and, considering its
geographical position, specially if some Ukrainians people want to move "West" full speed
ahead, because the border with Russia will always be there.
As for Zelensky, he has the backing of the people, such a backing that a 3rd colour
revolution would be immediately opposed by a bigger counter-manifestation. Besides, he should
seek the backing of the rank and file of the Ukrainian army, just in case things go very
badly with the fascists; considering his vast support among the people, the upper echelons of
the military might not like or follow him, but if he gives orders, the core troopers would.
For example, I believe that Russians and Ukrainians are actually one people.
Putin adds that it's inevitable that Ukraine will eventually return to good relations with
Russia.
Look, when these lands that are now the core of Ukraine, joined Russia, there were just
three regions – Kiev, the Kiev region, northern and southern regions – nobody
thought themselves to be anything but Russians, because it was all based on religious
affiliation. They were all Orthodox and they considered themselves Russians. They did not
want to be part of the Catholic world, where Poland was dragging them.
Putin is correct, as usual. He is playing the Long Game, just as China has done with Hong
Kong and continues to do with Taiwan. The empire always uses divide and rule. But in the end, empires always bite the dust.
In Ukrainian politics my preferences are with the present Russian viewpoint and not at all
with the Ukrainian Nazis.
Nevertheless, in these discussions there is never a mention of the Ukrainian Holodomor of
1932-1933 that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians.
"Revealing Ukraine" documentary aka "В борьбе
за Украину" (which includes the
interview in Kremlin released 19 July, minus the Skirpal comments) was released in Ukrainian
and Russian, 17, 19 July. The version in those languages is eg here,
https://my.mail.ru/mail/stelskov/video/235/5800.html
b said; "One hopes that Zelensky is smart enough to foresee a "third Maidan". He should kick
out all of them from the police and other forces. He should also raise the police pay. He
will need their loyalty sooner than he might think."
We'll all hope for the Zelensky people to salvage some sanity from another round of the
empire's attacks. They'll never relent.
One would hope the Stone documentary would be seen here, in the U$A, but that's a distant
dream. Should at least be on PBS, but, I doubt it.
As always b, thanks for the therapy, and historical background...
For newcomers, here is the TC-18-01, the American manual for Unconventional Warfare
(published in 2010; leaked in 2012):
Training">https://nsnbc.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/special-forces-uw-tc-18-01.pdf">Training
Circular No. 18-01: Special Forces Unconventional Warfare, For the color revolution manual, see Gene Sharp's famous book (From Dictatorship to
Democracy, 1994).
When used at the same time in the same place, they form what Korybko calls Hybrid Warfare
(see his book).
The Holodomor was real, but then again, so were Stalin's purges in that same era (a little
later) and Stalin's ethnic forced migrations from 1930 to 1949.
While this doesn't excuse these acts, people should keep in mind that the Soviet Union was
under tremendous external and internal pressure at the time. Acts of economic warfare tend to
be poorly documented in history - for example, China's famines in the 1960s were exacerbated
by a US embargo on wheat imports to China.
Ultimately, however, the main reason the Western Ukrainians don't like Russia is because
they've always believed Ukraine should be a nation in its own right. The large contingent of
Ukrainians in Canada, for example and including its present foreign minister, were fighting
for the Germans against Russia in World War 2 under
the SS , no less.
Some allege that Zelensky is under influence of the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky. But so far
there is little evidence to provide that.... Zelensky will likely try to move the country
back to a balanced positions between the 'west' and Russia.
There's reason to be skeptical.
Nuland (Jewish) picks Yats (rumored to be Jewish). Yats is succeeded by Groysman (Jewish).
President Poroschenko (Jewish) is succeeded by Zelinski (Jewish). Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country? I'll
bet it's because Jewish support for integration with the West is very strong.
"Yats is the guy" ... until he isn't but will the new guy bring real change or just
pretend to?
Not just a bridge between Russia and the EU, the natural partnership that the US really
fears, but, look at the geography, it is the natural entry point into Europe for the new Silk
Road from China. Pre 2014 the Chinese were attracted by the opportunity of a deep water port
in Crimea, the sea is too shallow into Ukraine proper.
"Nevertheless, in these discussions there is never a mention of the Ukrainian Holodomor of
1932-1933 that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians..."
The 'Holodomor' was not real. No such event occurred. There was no intention of starving
Ukrainians, on the part of the CPSU. In fact most of the Soviet Union suffered from famines
in these years, some regions much more than Ukraine. The causes of the famine were largely
economic sanctions.
It is quite true that the Collectivisation campaigns were, in many ways disastrous, and
carried out with great violence. But the Holodomor myth, invented by Nazi collaborators after
1945 and based on Goebbels's propaganda is Cold War anti-communist hate propaganda of the
worst kind.
Wikipedia is extremely unreliable on matters such as this.
2.As to comedians running governments Hoarsewhisperer, don't forget Italy.
3. What Ukraine has to offer, William Gruff, if the Biden clan has not stolen it, is some
of the best agricultural land in the temperate world. At a time in which the USA's ability to
dump grain on the world market is being employed to conduct terrorist economic warfare
against disobedient countries, the surpluses Ukraine could make available are of cardinal
importance. Then there is the matter of saving those lands from the scourges of American
agriculture-GMOs, Roundup et al.
" The large contingent of Ukrainians in Canada, for example and including its present foreign
minister, were fighting for the Germans against Russia in World War 2 under the SS, no
less."
c1ue@26
This is certainly true: the survivors of the 14th Waffen SS Galicia Division and their
dependents, hangers on and sundry war criminals on the lam certainly came to Canada where
they sold their votes en bloc to the Federal Liberal Party. In Alberta they came to control
inter alia the University of Alberta.
But long before these people came over immigration from Ukraine, including Mennonites,
brought their traditional skills and agricultural knowledge to, most notably the Prairies.
They knew about growing wheat in the climatic conditions here.
They also brought traditions of collective organisation -- they tended to be very left wing,
co-operators and were among the founders of the Communist Party and the CCF. It was with
great relish that the Liberal Party used the former (and lifelong) Nazis to saplit the
community post 1945.
"Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?"
They aren't, Jackrabbit. Grow up, for Christ's sake, and put these cheap racist cracks behind
you. Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. God willing that is now going to
change.
re "Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the
country?"
(a) Is it true that the population of Ukraine is .2% Jewish?
(b) Is it true that the .2% segment runs the country?
(c) Is it considered racist to ask why you find the two subject sentences indications of
racism?
However, for sake of good order, the EU association agreement proposal to Ukraine of Mr
Baroso, was presented and rejected by Janukovitch beginning of November 2013. ( not 2014).
The main reason, but never disclosed by our corporate press in the West, was the total
unacceptable ( hence fullty understandable) of an either/or demand choosing between EU and
Russia cooperation btw the lines, as well as an article about military cooperation. Which
of course would also exclude Russian partnership. ... that set the stage the humble and
charming Mrs "Fuck EU" Nudelman and her cookies at Maidan square.
The very fundamental principles of peace, understanding and cooperation of EU was betrayed by
their President Baroso. When you add that to the financial rape of Greece by Goldman Sachs
& co on his watch, one should think he deserved being executed for high treason! Civil
war in Ukraine & and looting of the people of Greece... But guess what... He went
directly from EU to .. GOLDMAN SACHS!
I appreciate that good concise timeline and explanation of what has happened in Ukraine. I
remember finding online a live 24/7 camera feed from Kiev during the Maidan coup, and the
fascination but horror of watching the western backed Right Sector thugs wearing neo-nazi
Wolfsangel insignias carry out atrocities in real time. I searched in vain a couple years
later to find the archives of these films. Does anyone know if they still exist? I suspect if
the filming was done by a coup-friendly Kiev TV station they will be kept under wraps unless
some viewer recorded them, as there is a lot of incriminating evidence which could be
exposed.
Watching what happened live and then following western media disinformation and outright
lies was the final slap in the face for me that the corporate media had finally given up any
pretenses of journalistic standards. Winter 2013/2014 it finally gasped its last breath and
the last nails were hammered into the coffin. From then on we've had non-stop blatantly false
narratives presented, with the nutty bogus Russiagate fiction now consuming three years(!) of
coverage.
Here's hoping the pendulum has swung and we'll reclaim some sanity. Current trends don't
favor this, however, and the US may go for the Samson option before conceding to a more
multi-polar world. A smart lady (my wife) says we need 10% of people to accept a new idea or
narrative before a critical mass can occur and it become the dominant narrative. The more
people who understand the issues MOA and others educate about gives us a chance of countering
the Empire's narrative control. Thanks to all for spreading the message and keep sharing with
your friends.
"Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?"
They aren't, Jackrabbit. Grow up, for Christ's sake, and put these cheap racist cracks
behind you. Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. God willing that is now
going to change.
No, he does not just say "Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they
running the country?". He says:
Nuland (Jewish) picks Yats (rumored to be Jewish). Yats is succeeded by Groysman (Jewish).
President Poroschenko (Jewish) is succeeded by Zelinski (Jewish).
Jewish population of Ukraine is 0.2% of the whole! Why are they running the country?
I'll bet it's because Jewish support for integration with the West is very strong.
You can't ignore this "interesting" "fact" if it's the fact.
@21 and @26 - regarding the Holodomor, It is true. Millions of people did die, but from what
I can tell, it was a lot more complicated than how it is presented. Here's an article I found
on Counterpunch Holodomor
I am no specialist or anything, but I think the collectivization was a disaster and the war
on the kulaks didn't help anything, and that lead to the Holodomor which is more
genocide-porn used for the same purposes as a few other large scale killings I have heard
about - to make sure we never forget, and more importantly, we never really find out what
really happened, because it is S A C R E D.
I just finished an excellent book on the Ukraine crisis. Flight MH17, Ukraine and the New
Cold War by Kees Van Der Pijl. In the book he says that the Holodomor was used by the Reagan
administration in the second phase of the Cold War as a tool to demonize the Soviet Union.
Sound Familiar? The author says the second phase of the Cold War was launched when detente
was broken with the Soviet Union, any concessions made to domestic labor in the west was to
be dismantled and the goal was regime change in Moscow which happened in 1991. The author
really lays it out and explained the new, third phase of the Cold War which really kicked
into gear in Kiev in the winter or 2014. I found that to be very interesting. I had never
heard it put that way before.
I can't recommend the book enough.
I just started Frontline Ukraine by Sakwa.
Thank you, B and everyone in the MoA community. Please forgive any mistakes I may have made
in describing my interpretation of van Der Pijl's book.
Ukraine is such a unique disaster of a nation precisely because it is not really a nation at
all, just a cobbled together mishmash of people with no history. There is no such thing as a
Ukrainian ethnicity. Ukrainians are ethnic Russians, remnants of the poor souls conquered by
the Poles after the Mongol invasion and treated like dirt for centuries. All through that
horrid time they preserved their identity as Russian, but when the Polish state was removed
from the map, bitter Polish academics pushed the tale that these people were somehow separate
from Russians, i.e. Russia had no right to it's retaken territory. This new foreign composed
identity was forced on them by both carrot and stick in the Austrian Empire, that occupied
Galicia...leading to concentration camps for those who resisted it in WWI. And the saddest
part of the tragedy was when the Soviets founded a Ukrainian republic, lending undeserved
credence to this farce. There is no wonder the country is such a schizophrenic failure. They
have no clear identity and their recent history is nothing but sniveling shame. What is
really the difference between groveling before Nazi invaders or groveling before Nato
invaders? Not much, and the end is the same.
I think over 20% of Ukraine's population is "not Ukrainian".
Posted by: c1ue | Jul 22 2019 21:59 utc | 28
It is quite complicated. For example, Zelensky himself had to brush up on his Ukrainian to
be able to run a campaign, which he managed to do with his talents and scripts. His first
language is Russian, and ancestry... Khazarian? If I recall, he shares first language,
hometown and ancestry with Kolomoysky who was also his employer. What I am trying to say is
that national identification is fluid in this region. You may have Russian nationalists who
speak Ukrainian dialect at home, Ukrainian nationalists with rather incomplete knowledge of
"their language" and many other combinations. That said, Ukrainian is a separate language
that may be hard to understand by someone who knows only Polish or only Russian (but rather
intelligible if you know both).
Occasionally I follow news on RusNext.ru, a news site that seems to be run by Donbass
supporters who fluently translate from Ukrainian and, I guess, use Ukrainian words here and
there.
BTW, the history of Ukraine is quite complicated, including "Polish Conquest" that in
actuality happened as very complex cleaving and coalescing of fragmented states with key
dynasties leaving no descendants BOTH in Poland and the Kingdom of Halich thus leaving both
to the rule of a Hungarian king, to be later partitioned between his two daughters, while the
less populated part of Ukraine was taken over by Lithuanians who had hard time defending
their holdings from Tatars etc. After that, the polity of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
adopted Polish as the common language of nobility, so most of the "cruel Polish lords" that
Ukrainians fought with in 17th century were of Ruthenian (Russian?) origin, some claiming
descent from Rurik (i.e. from the common dynasty of Rus lands). Compare with Irish and
Scottish nobility adopting a Saxon-French mix as their vernacular (now known as English).
I was just discovering the importance of internet world news information when the Maidan
crisis unfolded, and many Ukrainians were putting photos and videos on various blogs about
the horrible events leading up to and following the coup. Russia has made huge strides since
- but we cannot forget that ordinary people who had the ability to send out information as it
happened were to be highly praised for doing so. It wasn't sophisticated, I remember in one
city in Donbass it was simply someone filming as he walked along the street, showing bodies
on the street corner, the official Ukraine military speeding through the streets - vivid
shots of buildings on fire, a protest by a woman with a toddler at a speechgiving occasion.
Unforgettable.
Ukraine should be proud of being the historic heart of Russia itself, the place where the
State began. That's what Putin is talking about, and even more than Crimea Kiev is the
historical homeland capital city for all Russians; it's part of their heritage. It's as if
separatists in the US got themselves embedded in New York City and declared their
independence of the rest of the country, being more aligned with Canada. (Oh, and everyone in
that northern area now had to speak French.)
Wikipedia
tells us that Jews are 0.2% of the population in Ukraine.
'Jewish' is not a race. It's a religion. Do you think that Israel is a country for
semetic people ? LOL. No, it's a theocracy.
Ukraine is being run by the US and NATO, the Empire. No. Ukraine is being run by it's West-leaning leadership and US/NATO is partnered with
that leadership. I'm suggesting that Jews are among the most reliably pro-Western people in
Ukraine. After all, the "Empire" that you refer to is known as the "Anglo-Zionist
Empire".
<> <> <> <> <> <>
Leads me to wonder if the State Department's recent global antisemitism efforts are mostly
aimed at Ukraine.
If Ukraine itself made such efforts/expenditures it might would draw a backlash from the
Ukrainian people. So the US does it and slyly declares it to be global so no one
notices that it's directed at certain countries (mostly Ukraine?) that have Jewish leadership
that's backed by US/NATO.
As part of the effort to take over Ukraine, US/NATO forged an anti-Russian alliance that
included the anti-Jewish extreme-right in Ukraine as described by
Ukraine and the "Politics of Anti-Semitism" (2014) :
The US and the EU are supporting the formation of a coalition government integrated by
Neo-Nazis which are directly involved in the repression of the Ukrainian Jewish
community.
. . .
Within the Western media, news coverage of the Neo-Nazi threat to the Jewish community in
Ukraine is a taboo. There is a complete media blackout: confirmed by Google News search ...
What is not mentioned is that these "radical elements" supported and financed by the West
are Neo-Nazis who are waging a hate campaign against Ukraine's Jewish community.
. . .
According to the JP [Jerusalem Post] , the issue is one of "transition", which will
be resolved once a new government is installed .
"Despite his [Likhashov's] optimism fear pervades the local Jewish community, as it
does the entire Ukraine, during the transition period."
No doubt Jews would not feel safe with rightists leading the government so arrangements
were made (Democracy Works! LOL). We can surmise that the US State Dept has now
formalized this with funding for a propaganda campaign that seeks to change their views
and/or political slush fund to ensure election of Jewish candidates to high office?
Acar@39 The Globalists/Zionists Good 'Ole Pale of (re)Settlement included Crimea, home of the
Karaites, hence manipulation of the Rusyns, and Neo-fascist Galicians & Podolians. A
strange ethnic Divide et Impera nexus for sure..
"The pneumatics ("spiritual", from Greek πνεῦμα, "spirit")
were, in Gnosticism, the highest order of humans, the other two orders being psychics and
hylics ("matter"). A pneumatic saw itself as escaping the doom of the material world via the
transcendent knowledge of Sophia's Divine Spark within the soul."
No one is disputing that famines occurred in Soviet Ukraine. These famines also occurred
in Belarus and Russia. The extent to which the harsh form of collectivisation institutioned
under Stalin contributed as opposed to climatic and other factors (Western sanctions, crop
destroying pests etc) is a matter for debate. Grover Furr argues the latter forcefully in
'Blood Lies' (2014). The term "Holodomor" refers to an intentional policy of genocide against
the "Ukrainian Nation" by evil Russians/Commies/Jews via intentional starvation. As bevin @32
points out, this concept originated in Nazi ideology. So yes, famine(s) occurred, but the
"Holodomor" did not.
As for the author of the Counterpunch piece, Louis Proyect, he is an imperial apologist of
the worst sort who delights in trolling any forum where anti-imperialists gather. If this
appears to be an Ad Hominum attack, I think you have to be human to be a victim of one of
those.
I also can't recommend the Van der Pijl book enough. Usually if I see a book recommended
by someone who also links to a Louis Proyect article I would avoid it like the plague, but
barflies please don't be discouraged! Van der Pijl is one of the premier exponents of
(non-sectarian) Marxist International Relations, if you've been put off reading Marxist
authors thanks to the likes of Proyect he is the perfect antidote. His "Global Rivalries -
From The Cold War to Iraq" (2007) is also excellent, I would recommend you track that down if
Sakwa has nothing much to add.
Global Research has an extract from "Flight MH17, Ukraine and the New Cold War" here:
Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Prime minister
. . .
He has played down his Jewish-Ukrainian origins , possibly because of the prevalence
of antisemitism in his party's western Ukraine heartland.
Yatsenyuk resigned in disgrace in April 2016 amid a massive corruption scandal that
first broke in February, when economy minister Aivaras Abromavicius stepped down,
complaining that the Yatsenyuk government was not genuinely committed to fighting
corruption .
One of the many corrupt projects was Yats' border wall, which critics have said
"wouldn't even stop a rabbit." LOL.
The new one will be named Revealing Ukraine, and is just released. Search your torrent
search engine or tracker of choice for it for a HD release. Not on youtube yet AFAIK.
I just downloaded but got the Russian version without subtitles. I am unable to find the
English version. For those that understand Russian, the magnet link for the download is:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:cbfd33adbd1d2bf3d48aade83a60507fe9f74241
If anyone can find the English version, please post the magnet link or infohash value, but I
guess it has not yet been released.
by: bevin @ 32 < i am particularly interested to know the source of that 1932-1933
Holodomor propaganda.. .. claiming, not merely alleging, the genocidal deaths of 32 million
Ukrainians.. Seems to me these fake claims that appear everywhere, have generally the same
general sources, but are leaked at different places, in different formats, by different
faces.. .. ?
I would like to see if it is possible to prove the source to be a coordinated
amalgam of persons, and more particularly I am looking for the individual names that produce
fake propaganda for a living, where did they study, who trained them, who hired them and so
on.. Seems to me preparing, engineering or delivering fake anything that causes, or leads to
war and death and destruction is a crime against humanity (CAH) with universal application
because CAHs infringe inalienable human rights. There is a great need to make functional, on
a world wide basis, the ICC.. Additionally the ICC cases have the potential to deliver the
truth to History.
Iran, Russian, North Korea and China are positioned to impose ICC court jurisdiction,
Nuclear Non Weapon Proliferation, and 3 vetos required to overrule the findings and mandates
of a majority determination of the UN Security Council on all leaders and all nations and
ruling bodies in the world. War, and in fact the decimation and destruction of the universe,
is possible because these holes in the enforceable rule by law system exist. Fixing these
three holes could have a massive long term effect on the peace and income distribution
throughout the entire globe.
A forth such thing would be to internationalize all resources in the world, and to
allocate ownership to them based on population and finally, the most important change of all,
would be to internationalize education.. to grant one degree for all undergraduate education
based on international subject matter examinations ( does not matter where or how the
knowledge to pass is obtained, so universities and tutors can still play a massive part in
instructing the masses), and one professional degree in law, one in medicine and one in
engineering.. everyone would have to pass examinations and prove fluency in at least three
culturally different, geographically different languages, and prove competency in mathematics
at the differential and integral calculus level to be eligible to sit for an undergraduate
degree and lawyers, doctors, scientist and engineers would be eligible to practice anywhere
in the world, subject only to credential free, local regulation imposed because of local
experience. Local regulation <= not supported by local experience would be overturned.
None of this requires, demands, or needs a king or a president, it just needs to be a part of
the human experience in the earth environment.
Great summary b.
Needed somebody to just spell it out.
I recall watching the 2014 crisis and civil war in real time. Felt WW-III was upon us.
Couldn't believe the outright lies of all Western media and was the straw that broke the back
of any remaining faith I had in NYT, The Guardian, BBC, ABC (Australian) etc.
The Odessa Massacre was biggest turning point for me.http://stormcloudsgathering.com/the-odessa-massacre-what-really-happened/
There's far more evidence Ukraine shot down MH17 than the Donbas rebels did. Go to
www.consortiumnews.com and search 'MH17'
Talking with friends something has shifted for the average Joe and Jane. In 2014, if I
presented evidence against the official Western Ministry of Truth (yeah see the typo but
seems worth leaving) on Ukraine I'd get a righteous backlash and called a Putin apologist
etc. These days there's blank inward stare of cognitive dissonance, subtle agreement and
desire to change topic. Such is the nature of Stockholm Syndrome.
@21 David Park, @26 c1ue, @32 bevin, @34 Ghost Ship, @41 roza shanina, @54 Paora, @58 snake
My understanding is that of Paora and bevin; there were famines in the Soviet Union,
including in Ukraine. The Holodomor myth, if not started there, was massively
promoted in the 30s by ... drumroll ... the Hearst empire.That alone should
tell you something of its reliability. Proyect's piece is interesting, but it doesn't touch
on the Western creation of the "Holodomor," the myth itself of the Soviet
genocide aimed at Ukrainians.
Unfortunately, I'm unable right now to put my hands/keyboard on a good reference for this.
If I'm able to locate one, I'll put it in a comment in an open thread.
Note to snake: not 32 million, but around 5-7 million, probably laughable in itself. (A
reference I found for the Ukraine SSR in the 1930s indicates that the population
grew during the 1930-33 period, but that should probably be read with great
care. It would probably require a study in itself.)
* * * *
On another, but not entirely irrelevant matter, I've always found this wikipedia entry to
be vastly entertaining. It gives me a good chuckle to think of Ukrainization -- the promotion
of Ukrainian language and culture -- as a communist plot. (It's not a perfect analogy, but
it's close enough for a laugh, considering the present.) (And yes, I know it's Wikipedia, but
their prejudices lean generally in the other direction.)
The extreme right-wing politicians, who gained notoriety after the Maidan coup, prohibited
the use of the Russian language which more than 50% of the Ukrainians speak.
That's a bald-faced lie. Russian is still spoken in large parts of Ukraine,
including Odessa. The main tourist attraction in Odessa, a beach community known as Arcadia,
still uses the Russian word at its entrance. Street signs are still in Russian. People speak
Russian.
The only thing is they made Ukrainian the official language. Everyone must learn it. It is
the same in Russia - everyone must learn Russian, even in Chechnya. It is in the nature of a
country to have a universal language whereby everyone in the country may communicate. There
is nothing whatsoever radical or even unusual about this.
Stop spreading hate and lies. This is utter nonsense.
As to Yanukovych, he was widely hated by everyone for his total corruption. Even Russians.
I lived in Ukraine at that time - mostly in Sevastopol, which was then 90+% Russian (and of
course now is part of Russia). Everybody hated him and thought he was utterly corrupt and
stole from the people. His thugs would literally walk into a private business with guns and
tell the owner "I am buying half your business for $50, here are the papers, sign them now".
That is how he operated. Of course they did not want the L'viv folks staging a coup, but the
hatred for the corrupt Yanukovych was truly national.
You don't do anyone any favors by publishing lies.
All those who say that Zelenski is a puppet or front for Kolomoiski should remember that a
certain VV Putin came to power as a puppet or front for Boris Berezovski. And we all know how
that (BB) ended. So let's hope for the best - can't get much worse anyway. And Zelenski seems
to have acted very smartly so far. Good luck to him - he'll need it!
It's my understanding that those Ukrainians who most fervently believe in the Holodomor (that
the Soviet govt under Joseph Stalin deliberately targeted ethnic Ukrainians with famine and
starvation) live in that part of the modern Ukraine that was under fascist Polish rule in the
1930s.
From my own reading, the famines of the early 1930s affected large parts of eastern
Ukraine across southen European Russia into Kazakhstan.
The issue though is not so much the details of what actually occurred then as in the
creation of a lie that deliberately equates Nazis with Soviets and thus Nazism with
Communism, and ultimately socialism. If Nazism led to the Holocaust, then Communism and
socialism must be demonstrated to have resulted in equally great horrors such as mass
famines, starvation or incarcerating people in concentration camps on the basis of their
religion. The current demonization of the Chinese govt over its supposed treatment of Falun
Gong followers or Uyghurs follows this pattern.
Accusing b of "spreading hate and lies"? There's plenty of sources documenting the
Ukrainian laws passed since 2014 prohibiting or restricting Russian language in various
sectors, including official use, public education, even in films. b was correct in his
assessment, and I have no idea where the "hate" accusation came from. I would normally not
link to the awful Telegraph of UK, but I assume this story from just three months ago isn't
fake news.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/25/ukraine-passes-law-against-russian-language-official-settings/
> The only thing is they made Ukrainian the official language.
...and the ONLY one.
...and the language undeveloped, that lacked words for many modern realities, from helicopter
to condom, so they all had to be invented rashly.
> It is the same in Russia - everyone must learn Russian, even in Chechnya.
In Russia, Crimean Turks can teach their children, in beginner's school, in k'yrymchi
language. It is one of three official languages of Crimean region. In Ukraine it was impossible then and it is impossible still.
> It is in the nature of a country to have a universal language
...that is only native to less than 20% of the population? Well, it is indeed a nature - of OCCUPIED countries. Like, Norman invasion into England, when elites had one language and serfs - another. And
serf's language was slowly suffocated and replaced by foreign language of occupying
elites. "If to live in comfort you have to rename every major city and tear down every ,ajor
monument - you cam to live on someone's else land".
> whereby everyone in the country may communicate.
If that was the intention - then the language native to population's 83% would become
official, like it is in Ireland. But not in Ukraine.
> As to Yanukovych, he was widely hated by everyone for his total corruption.
He was. So you say this makes illegal coup less illegal and bandit Poroshenko less bandit. How
exactly? Or you just throw in irrelevant emotional hitpiece to accuse of "spreading lies" by which
you mean "not spreading your favorite grievances" ?
> Yanukovych.... had no choice but to refuse [Deep and Comprehensive EuroAssociation]
But he did not.
He asked to amend it, to re-negotiate it.
He asked to add there compensation clause from EU to Ukrainian industries. Russia also asked for it to be re-negotiated, but Russia wanted re-negotiation from
scratch into a trilateral treaty. Yanukovich only wanted money to support Ukrainian economic
until his re-election.
Bad for him, but money he asked for "coincidently" were the same, as money Europe promised
to Ukraine for removing of Nuclear weapon and Chernobyl nuclear power. When Ukraine delivered
and asked for money - the 2nd maidan (2004) happened and both Kuchma and his heir Yanukovich
flew down the drain. When Yanukovich was allowed to the throne in 2009 he conveniently forgot
about that story. But the moment he asked EU for money, albeit under pretext of Association
and markets, the 3rd maidan unleashed and Yanukovich went down the drain again. Guess, he had
to learn his lesson without repeats?..
> Not so much Russia dissuading Kiev as Kiev taking an inordinate length of time to
realise the blatantly obvious.
Posted by: Michael Droy | Jul 22 2019 20:03 utc | 12
Well, it took Russia to really START implementing trade inhibition, there were few rather
vibrant "scandals" in spring and summer 2014 with Russia banning this or that food/alcohol
form Ukraine, quoting safety hazards, to make Yanukovich understand this time it is for
real.
Most probably Yanukovich was like Saakashvili in 2008, totally programmed that "Russia
would not date" because "Russia is secretly ruled by Jews/NeoLibs/Washington/whatever".
Russia dared. And then Yanukovich understood he was not selected to be a hero bringing
Ukraine to Europe, but a scapegoat to absorb the fallout.
is biased also ? It isn't my argument at all, but I do understand that language is very
important in terms of identity. There is quite a lot of history in that article to take into
account, or argue over I suppose. As it is probably the "go to" reference for people outside
of the region wanting to understand the question of languages in Ukraine, its content is
relevant.
> I remember in one city in Donbass it was simply someone filming as he walked along the
street, showing bodies on the street corner, the official Ukraine military speeding through
the streets - vivid shots of buildings on fire
Posted by: juliania | Jul 23 2019 1:44 utc | 47
Most probably, Mariupol 2014-05-09. People wanted to celebrate V-Day, but "democratic" Oleg Lyashko and his "men in black"
drove in at attacked demonstration. Local police tried to protect citizens and was ambushed
in their own HQ (that very burning house), making last stand.
"In the 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election he led his party to win 22 seats."
"In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election Lyashko lost his parliamentary seat"
One may also look for Olena Bilozerka, 2013 German "best international blogger."
She is open and vocal part of Right Sector, though allegations were she is inflating
political issues to hide marauding issues.
She blogged back in 2014-02-16 about "next day" meeting of Right Sector representatives with
Merkel "to report about implementation of our part of agreement and to be informed by Merkel
about implementing her part" and regardless of "checking the watches" about armed assault
upon government on 18.02, which indeed happened and was success.
Being open and vocal Nazi she then published many photo and video that were "omitted" by free
world's free media.
This "how many people did Communism killed" question is tiresome.
As I've already commented here in previous posts, there are essentially three methods an
historian can determine if a genocide happened:
1) mass graves (this requires archaeology);
2) written contemporary accounts, and
3) census
In the "Holodomor" case, we only have "2", the most popular one in the West being that
Welsh journalist who travelled to the USSR that time and, based on anecdotal evidence,
"covered" the famine.
Wikipedia's article about the "Holodomor" only mentions one source mentioning concrete
numbers: Wheatcroft, a rather obscure Australian academic who, to his merit, at least made up
the effort to talk with people who had access to the Soviet archives.
The quoted list of his article clearly indicates Wheatcroft bases his numbers on indirect
data. He uses the 1937 census in relation to 1926; in another article, he uses the quantity
of grain stock in 1932. I could go on, but the important thing here is that this guy doesn't
use any extraordinary sources. He certainly didn't go to the Ukraine to do archaeology. The
Ukrainians themselves probably didn't do it either, because, so far, we have no accounts of
mass graves in the region.
Famines were common in the pre-industrial world. They occured often in the ancient world
-- where cities and villages literally disappeared in a matter of decades because of one bad
crop and/or one plague (plagues are a side-effect of sedentarism). The often occured in the
feudal world. They specially happened in tsarist Russia, which has a very peculiar and
hostile climate and land composition for agriculture (only 15% of the USSR's territory was
viable for agriculture even in the industrial era). They certainly are not a communist
invention. We must avoid the "Belle Époque syndrome", that is, adopt the illusion late
tsarist Russia was a paradise that was destroyed by evil Bolsheviks. Tsarist Russia was a
very brutal world, were peasants died like flies every day: Gogol (who lived in Ukrainian
territory) wrote a very funny and politically charged novel about it ("Dead Souls").
Wheatcroft uses the 1920s demographic tendency in order to infer "excess deaths" in the
USSR in 1932, but he misses the bigger picture: you have to take into account Russian
demographic movements in the long term, taking into consideration the cyclic famines. Just to
crop a short period from 1926-1932 is scientifically dishonest.
Yes, forced collectivization probably caused excess deaths in 1932 -- but it's impossible
to calculate how much more it caused in relation to a "normal" famine. Just because a famine
happened during the Soviet era doesn't mean it was caused 100% because of socialism. Constant
excess food production is a very recent phenomenon in human History, to state famines are the
exception and not the rule is contemporary bias.
It is very unlikely the 1932 famine was an extraordinary famine. The 1937 census
registered a population growth in relation to 1926. This alone discards genocide, because,
even though excess deaths ocurred (as is the rule in famines), that meant women still had
time and resources to biologically reproduce above the population replacement levels. Worst
case scenario, this growth happened because birth rates were excessive in the urban areas at
the expense of the rural areas -- an unlikely scenario, since in this case, we would register
mass migration from the rural area to the urban area (because the hypothesis is that the
famine was artificial, so the grains would be in the cities): they would either mass migrate
or die trying, in which case we would have mass graves.
Mass graves are the decisive evidence for a genocide, indeed any mass extermination,
because that would mean death was sudden. When the death process is slow and not
synchronized, people have the time to bury/cremate their dead. That is the case even with
some plagues (e.g. Antonine Plague). Mass graves are an indication people were killed more or
less at the same time, in an artificial way, and in large quantities (since proper burials
are expensive). In a deprived economy like the USSR, it is very unlikely all those bodies
would be properly buried, let alone cremated, was a mass extermination taken place.
The holy grail of evidence for a genocide/mass extermination for any historian is when a
witness points the place of the event and then archaeology finds out a mass grave. This
evidently didn't happen in the case of "Holodomor".
Note: Gorbachev is a Russian who was born and raised in a village that borders modern
Ukraine. His grandparents and parents were victims of the 1932 famine (they all survived).
They continued committed with the Revolution and, according to Gorbachev's own accounts, he's
was not raised believing the 1932 famine was exceptional.
About the "Stalin is a genocidal psychopath" question: it's funny, because forced
collectivization was one of the few points where he and Trotsky agreed.
Whatever happened in macroeconomic reforms after Stalin consolidated power was a
collective work, not the designs of only one man. And, although we can argue against the
means, the fact was that they were successful: the USSR rose from the ruins of a second tier
imperial power (late tsarist Russia) to a global superpower.
To understand the most important fact of what happened to Ukraine and why, you need to know
about the yank neocon PNAC, which trumps (excuse the pun) all: The Project for the New
American Century, and the original neocon (jew) wolfowitz doctrine, as revealed in the NYT in
1992:
www.nytimes.com/1992/03/08/world/us-strategy-plan-calls-for-insuring-no-rivals-develop.html
Russia at the moment is correctly perceived as the main opponent to the usa, china too as
upcoming, in line with the above, & PNAC is part of trying to keep Russia in its place:
'part of the American mission will be "convincing potential competitors that they need not
aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate
interests."' And 'to deter any nation or group of nations from challenging American primacy'.
And 'a world in which there is one dominant military power whose leaders "must maintain the
mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or
global role."' Note 'regional' insofar as it concerns Russia wrt ukraine.
Also this is why the USG used Maidan (with at least $5 bn - said nuland/jewland, married
to the co-founder of PNAC kagan, another jew) against Russia, to cause it problems and to be
a thorn in the flesh.
Another important fact is the roman catholic church attack on Russia through ukraine &
the split of the church in ukraine from the Russian Orthodox Church.
> there are essentially three methods an historian can determine if a genocide happened
Four.
There can be comparison of available data in adjacent regions.
In this specific case - in Poland-occupied Western Ukraine. Just "across the line".
Anecdotal evidence states it also had famine, so the famine was not anchored in USSR
specific way of governing.
Some rare online archives of then Poland newspapers photos report some UK delegations raising
concerns, etc.
However, in USSR the famine was a state-acknowledge emergency. USSR prohibited moving
foods out of Ukrainian SSR (and wheat was not the only food! everyone talks about grains,
forgetting potato, fish, mushrooms, etc), broken many Western contracts to repay debts in
grains (West was denying being paid in other assets and was decrying USSR savageness of
refusing to export all the contracted grain with the same zeal it today decry USSR savageness
of exporting at least some of grain), started importing grain from Persia (now Iran). This
emergency let a lot of paper trail, which now is used to "prove" how evil Soviet government
was (and, specifically, not Ukrainian SSR government but central government in Kremlin; and
somehow this is stretched even further to "prove" murderous hatred being part of "Russian
character").
In Poland, well, a dull matter of fact. Bad lack to be peasant, yet worst to be Ukrainian
peasant. S-t happens.
No paper trail - no "historic event" - no accusations. Don't try to fix famines - and you will not be accused of being part of it.
Election apparatus is so easy to corrupt, yet people still vote! Crazy! And, so many
elections have been rigged this way: People are so dumb! Why does nobody insist on
independent, improved equipment? Conditioning makes people ignore the cheat under their
noses.
Recall the posters in previous threads defending the empire's color revolution attempts in
Hong Kong and match the names up with posters here. Are they trying to offer defense of the
empire's color revolutions in Ukraine, or do you think they are off-duty now and posting with
the sincere intention of initiating open discussion? Do you honestly think you can change
their minds by engaging with them and pointing out the flaws in their facts and their logic
when it is their job to defend the actions of the empire?
By the way, do expect and don't be surprised when the same posters referred to above
defend the empire's lawfare coup in Brazil, the attempted lawfare coup in South Africa, and
the attempts to regime change Venezuela when b posts any articles on these issues.
As for holodomor, or the Maidan snipers, or the famine in China, one doesn't need details
to identify fictions. One simply needs to use logic and reason. We need only question simple
points if we suspect that the famine in Ukraine was a deliberate attempt to exterminate
Ukrainians: Was it successfully completed, and if not then why not?
There are obviously still Ukrainians, so it wasn't successful. If we assume the famine was
a deliberate attempt at extermination, then we must ask why was it stopped before it
finished? Did some external factor force Stalin to call off the extermination before it was
completed?
No, the famine was stopped by dramatically improved agricultural practices instituted by
the Soviet Union. This cannot be reconciled with the claim that the famine was a deliberate
attempt by the Soviet Union at extermination, so no matter how much we may cherish the myth
of holodomor, to remain rational individuals we must let that myth go.
Too complex? Let's try the Maidan snipers: We are expected to believe that the killers
were police or Berkut snipers. What was their motive? Presumably to stop the protests. If
that was their motive, then why did the snipers stop sniping before dispersing the protests?
If the snipers were trying to end the protests, then why did they shoot just enough to
inflame further protests, but not enough to discourage the protests?
The answer is simple: The police and/or Berkut were not the Maidan snipers in Kiev.
The snipers were provocateurs who intended to amplify the protests.
It is good to dig deeper into the details of all of these false narratives that we in the
West have been fed, but those details are not absolutely necessary to know that the
narratives are false.
1. If forced collectivization would lead to famine, there would had be no famines in 1920-s
and in 1890-s, before the said collectivization but there were.
2. Before forced collectivization there were many years of attempts at unforced one. They
failed for at least two reasons.
a) many of poor peasants "saw themselves temporarily embarrassed millionaires". While
being target of debt sharks (kulaks, public-devourers
(мироеды)) they still only imagined the life as
being sole owner of their however tiny patch of soil.
b) government attempts they saw as unwarranted advantages from aliens, city-dwellers,
trade partners of hated kulaks, that to be took advantage of using any loopholes. Government
tried to foster grassroots kolkhoz movements by offering bound credits - seeds, fertilizers,
agriculture tools. Peasants started organizing "ten men" kolkhozes in springs, taking those
credits, and then dissolving kolkhozes before gathering crops. "Faked bankruptcy" in modern
parley. If you can have good sides without having bad sides - why opt for bad sides too?
Specifically in Ukraine it could also be boosted by the "national character" formed as
dwellers of centuries-long battle ground between Poland, Russia and Turkey. No positive
long-term planning, everything for instant profits disregarding any consequences. Any
government are occupants and bandits, co-operating with them is futile and silly. We can see
it today marching over once most rich and developed Soviet Republic. Why couldn't the same
happen in 1930-s ?
3. However forced collectivization did achieved a lot. Remember the UK, where "sheep ate
people", for example. Remember latifundists in Latin America. It is largely the same!
a) hugely increased labor efficiency in "village to city" trade metrics.
"товарное
зерно"
b) hugely increased labor efficiency in "men / area" ratio. Use of mechanic tractors and
harvesters, etc. Unemployment among "just my hands" peasantry.
c) increased "capital concentration" provided for use of fertilizer, poisons, etc. Which
contributed to the prior point.
d) now unemployed peasants moved to cities, populating newly built factories. This process
was already going in 1900-s but much slower then. Emergent industrialization in the wake of
WW2 - and a very successful one.
e) end of rural famines. One of the reason 1931 famine is so hyped - it was the last in the
row. Would there be a comparable famine for example in 1970-s - and for political purposes it
would had been much more useful against USSR. But there were none. "Golodomor" was the last
famine, so it became the focal point.
e) end of city famines. Where atomized peasant families could not sustain even a horse or a
cow, one of famines reasons, joint companies (kolkhozes) just like huge private
agri-companies in UK or Argentina, relied upon chemistry and mechanizations, thus needed to
trade with cities, thus were supplying cities with food. All the champions of Golodomor
somehow overlook city famines that were cruel in early USSR in winters.
And one more quirk is almost total lack of photo-evidence behind "Golodomor".
When articles/books are illustrated, it is with photos from 1920-s famine in USSR or in USA,
misattributed.
Allegedly, it is because in Soviet cruel diktatura even NKVD death squads could not make
those photos even for secret important reports.
Reportedly it is because victims of "Goldomor" were dying "fatties", making less convincing
images. The theories were made explaining why it was so, however there seems to be no any
other famine known where those theories worked and people dying of hunger were abnormally
thick.
To Arioch @84, I apologize. You are absolutely correct. Leaving trolls' posts unchallenged
gives the casual reader the impression that those posts are unassailable; nevertheless, I
have been attempting to limit my engagement with the trolls to simply pointing them out.
Posters such as yourself, vk, karlof1, etc who provide detailed and historically accurate
corrections to the false narratives are necessary for the edification of lurkers and casual
readers. I just hope that you don't measure the effectiveness of your posts by whether or not
you change the trolls' minds.
> I have been attempting to limit my engagement with the trolls to simply pointing them
out
This can really work well with people sincerely lost by massive propaganda, people who
succumbed to illusion they know, why they do not.
Wikipedia: The Socratic method, also known as method of Elenchus, elenctic method, or
Socratic debate, is a form of cooperative argumentative dialogue between individuals, based
on asking and answering questions to stimulate critical thinking and to draw out ideas and
underlying presuppositions. It is a dialectical method, involving a discussion in which the
defense of one point of view is questioned; one participant may lead another to contradict
themselves in some way, thus weakening the defender's point. This method is named after the
Classical Greek philosopher Socrates and is introduced by him in Plato's Theaetetus as
midwifery (maieutics) because it is employed to bring out definitions implicit in the
interlocutors' beliefs, or to help them further their understanding.
Sincere person, being guided by questions, would start researching and analyzing. And would
not feel coerced.
But you know, trolls just ignore the questions and keeps hammering talking points by
infinitely going back and repeating them "from starting point".
Avoiding positive argumentation, avoiding claiming something and limiting ourselves to
questioning their weak points, we help them to create another impression: they have a bad
theory when we have no theory at all. They are content with it.
So, putting out competing interpretation is no less important than showing their own
unhonesty.
t
people were able to look past the mistake and not overlook the van der pijl book. Thank you
for letting me know of Mr. Proyect's reputation.
Missing from the comments regarding Ukrainian/Russian dynamics is recognition of the numerous
attempts (dating back to the 17th century) of the Russification of the Ukraine, first by the
Russian Empire and then by the Soviets.
In 1863, minister of internal affairs Pyotr Valuyev issued the so-called Valuev
Circular, in which he stated that the Ukrainian language never existed, doesn't exist, and
cannot exist.
Under Stalin, "korenization" took second stage to the idea of a united Soviet Union,
where competing national cultures were no longer tolerated, and the Russian language
increasingly became the only official language of Soviet socialism
Russification of Soviet-occupied Ukraine intensified in 1938 under Nikita Khrushchev,
then secretary of the Ukrainian Communist Party, but was briefly halted during World War II,
when Axis forces occupied large areas of the country.
In the 1960s, the Ukrainian language began to be used more widely and frequently in spite
of these policies. In response, Soviet authorities increased their focus on early education
in Russian. After 1980, Russian language classes were instituted from the first grade
onward.
( a reason for so many Russian-speaking Ukrainians??)
In the regions of southern Russian SFSR (North Caucasus and eastern part of Sloboda
Ukraine included into RSFSR) Ukrainization was effectively outlawed in 1932.[18]
Specifically, the December 14, 1932 decree "On Grain Collection in Ukraine, North Caucasus
and the Western Oblasts" by the VKP(b) Central Committee and USSR Sovnarkom stated that
Ukrainization in certain areas was carried out formally, in a "non-Bolshevik" way, which
provided the "bourgeois-nationalist elements" with a legal cover for organizing their
anti-Soviet resistance. In order to stop this, the decree ordered in these areas, among other
things, to switch to Russian all newspapers and magazines, and all Soviet and cooperative
paperwork. By the autumn of 1932 (beginning of a school year), all schools were ordered to
switch to Russian. In addition the decree ordered a massive population swap: all "disloyal"
population from a major Cossack settlement, stanitsa Poltavskaya was banished to Northern
Russia, with their property given to loyal kolkhozniks moved from poorer areas of Russia.[19]
in the 1937 Soviet Census compared to the 1926 First All-Union Census of the Soviet
Union.[18]
This perhaps explains the predominance of Russian in eastern Ukraine.
"... During the campaign Zelensky outflanked Poroshenko by promising to do anything to achieve peace, including direct negotiations with Putin . Since winning the election, however, Zelensky has backtracked from this pledge and reassured the West that he has no intention of negotiating with Putin without Western intermediaries present. In sum, he continues to try to be everything to everyone by telling each person whatever it is they want to hear. ..."
"... Poroshenko paved this same path while campaigning for the presidency in 2014. He promised to end the conflict "within hours" but later abandoned his pledge and declared the conflict to be an "antiterrorist operation." Two years later, he oversaw a joint forces operation to liberate Ukraine from enemy occupation ..."
"... As Poroshenko's rhetoric became more nationalistic, his room for political maneuver shrank. Eventually he was forced to abandon any attempt to implement the Minsk II Accords, which he himself had once touted. Ultimately, he lost his bid for re-election, and the stalemated parliament became the least trusted institution in Ukraine. ..."
"... On this issue, the new president and the new parliament need the help of Ukrainian society as a whole. Poroshenko tried to rely exclusively on radical nationalism and failed. Five years of Russophobia and sanctions have not succeeded in altering Russia's policy. They have, however, totally alienated the populations of Eastern and Southern Ukraine-on both sides of the demarcation line. ..."
"... It is unclear if Zelensky understands that the true source of his popular support is the desire for normalcy with Russia. It is unclear if he can avoid the trap of nationalism that has alienated at least half the country. Continuing along that path will lead to endless civil conflict. Dialogue requires an entirely different mindset, one that Ukrainians may be ready to embrace even if their political leaders are not. ..."
Volodymr Zelensky's election win was a result of Ukraine's pent-up demand for normalcy with Russia. But now it looks like
Ukraine's new president is succumbing to nationalist pressure.
Ever since Volodymyr Zelensky's upset victory in April, Ukrainians have been wondering whether their newly elected president
will take new approaches to resolve the conflict with Russia. His thumping victory over Petro Poroshenko, who tried to dismiss all
of his opponents as puppets of Russian Vladimir Putin puppets, uncovered a strong, untapped desire to end the Russophobia that has
been porminant with over the past five years. During that time, the
Poroshenko and other senior government officials
routinely referred to Ukrainians who wanted better relations with Russia as a "
fifth
column ."
During the campaign Zelensky outflanked Poroshenko by promising to do anything to achieve peace, including direct
negotiations with Putin . Since winning the election, however, Zelensky has backtracked from this pledge and reassured the West
that he has no intention of negotiating with Putin without Western intermediaries present. In sum, he continues to try to be everything
to everyone by telling each person whatever it is they want to hear.
Poroshenko paved this same path while campaigning for the presidency in 2014. He promised to
end the conflict "within hours" but later abandoned his pledge and declared the conflict to be an "antiterrorist operation."
Two years later, he oversaw a joint forces operation to liberate Ukraine from enemy occupation.
As Poroshenko's rhetoric became more nationalistic, his room for political maneuver shrank. Eventually he was forced to abandon
any attempt to implement the Minsk II Accords, which he himself had once touted. Ultimately, he lost his bid for re-election, and
the stalemated parliament became the least trusted institution in Ukraine.
Now, the parliament is up for re-election on July 21. The parliament plays an important role because it constrains the president
in nearly all executive decisions, including the appointment of key government officials. By arguing that he cannot pursue the policies
he wants because of the opposition of the current parliament, Zelensky's makeshift party "Servant of the People" has gained unprecedented
support. It is now so far ahead in the polls that, for the first time in Ukrainian history, it might even be able to rule alone.
Report Advertisement And still, no one has any idea what the president's party actually stands for. Its haphazardly assembled
leaders have voiced contradictory views on just about every major issue. The only hint at any ideology was an off-the-cuff remark
by his parliamentary representative that the party espouses "libertarianism," a concept that is less clear in Ukraine than it is
in the West. Last week, however, a significant incident took place that suggests what might be in store for a Ukraine that is dominated
by "Team Z."
On July 7 the Russian television channel Russia-24 and the Ukrainian television channel "NewsOne" announced that they would hold
a two-hour live studio discussion called "We Need to Talk" on July 12. NewsOne explained its initiative as a response to the fact
that "today in Ukraine roughly 70 percent of people expect direct political discussions with Russia." It also recalled that during
the late 1980s space bridges between Phil Donahue and Vladimir Pozner had "laid the beginnings for contacts between peoples who,
thanks to their politicians, found themselves in a Cold War." Within 24 hours, however, the show was cancelled. Organizers cited
"direct physical threats to journalists and their families," as the reason they had been forced to abandon their attempt to "organize
a space for the discussion of nonpolitical questions through the efforts of ordinary people who had never questioned the territorial
integrity of Ukraine, without politicians and odious propagandists."
Report Advertisement The mere idea of engaging in a dialogue with Russians was attacked by nearly every political party. The
prime minister said it "played into the hands of the enemy." The speaker of parliament demanded that the Ukrainian Security services
respond immediately to this "brutal violation of Ukrainian law." The National Council for Television and Radio said it would meet
in extraordinary session to consider revoking NewsOne's broadcasting license. The prosecutor general stated that there was ample
legal reason for doing so, and for his part initiated a criminal investigation of NewsOnes owners for support of terrorism and treason.
With a bit of Orwellian flair, the National Union of Journalists of Ukraine issued a statement that, while affirming the rights
of Ukrainian journalists, declared its "outrage" at the idea of any interaction with "a Russian propaganda channel."
Such a reaction was more or less expected from the Old Guard that had just been thrashed electorally, but how did the new president
respond? He recorded a video and posted it on the Internet, calling the attempt at dialogue "cheap and risky PR-hype on the eve
of the elections." Instead of a televised discussion among average people, Zelensky challenged Putin to sit down with him and four
other world leaders-Trump, May, Macron and Merkel-to talk about "who Crimea belongs to and who is 'not there' in Donbass."
This was the first time that Zelensky took a stand, not just on hypothetical negotiations with the Russian government, but on
the desire to engage in a dialogue with the Russians. It seems that the problem that most concerns him is not the threat of violence
against alternative media in Ukraine, but the existence of alternative media.
Many now fear that what happened with NewsOne is a portent of what will happen should the government actually try to end the
impasse in Eastern Ukraine through dialogue. Such a dialogue with the Ukrainian rebels is actually required by point four of the
Minsk II Accords, though Zelensky seems to be unaware of this. This is precisely why Ukrainian nationalists reject them. After all,
if these territories rejoin Ukraine, then the number of people who favor better relations with Russia would increase dramatically;
this is something that the nationalists fear even more than military conflict.
But there is a way out of this impasse, one that a political maverick like Volodymyr Zelensky ought to find quite congenial.
He should use citizen diplomacy to get around the recalcitrant political system. The new president should look beyond the present
day Ukrainian political establishment and employ this tactic.
Thus, on the eve of the first round of the presidential elections, two of its leaders, Viktor Medvedchuk and Yuri Boiko, flew
to Moscow to meet with Russia's prime minister. They returned with a tentative agreement to reduce the price of Russian gas for
Ukraine by 25 percent, and to lift Russian sanctions on Ukrainian goods transiting Russia. Medvedchuk, who as Ukraine's chief hostage
negotiator obtained the release of more than 480 captive Ukrainian soldiers, was later dismissed by Zelensky. Much to the latter's
chagrin, however, Medvedchuk, as a private citizen was able to obtain the release of four more captive Ukrainians.
Report Advertisement This latest attempt by NewsOne to establish a public dialogue fits this pattern. It was more than a dialogue
with Russia; it was an effort to begin a dialogue among Ukrainians about what sort of relationship with Russia might benefit Ukraine.
As Vasily Golovanov, general producer and anchor at NewsOne, put it, "If politicians are unable to establish a dialogue with the
citizens of Ukraine, then journalists must do so."
On this issue, the new president and the new parliament need the help of Ukrainian society as a whole. Poroshenko tried to rely
exclusively on radical nationalism and failed. Five years of Russophobia and sanctions have not succeeded in altering Russia's policy.
They have, however, totally alienated the populations of Eastern and Southern Ukraine-on both sides of the demarcation line.
Report Advertisement Zelensky's election win has highlighted Ukrainian society's pent-up demand for normalcy with Russia. For
now, being an unknown quantity, he can still tap into this demand and win the upcoming parliamentary elections. But the opposition's
efforts to reach out to Russia have yielded such tangible electoral benefits that they will eventually challenge Zelensky directly,
if he does not co-opt them as his own.
It is unclear if Zelensky understands that the true source of his popular support is the desire for normalcy with Russia. It
is unclear if he can avoid the trap of nationalism that has alienated at least half the country. Continuing along that path will
lead to endless civil conflict. Dialogue requires an entirely different mindset, one that Ukrainians may be ready to embrace even
if their political leaders are not.
Report Advertisement Nicolai N. Petro is Silvia-Chandley Professor of Peace and Nonviolence at the University of Rhode Island.
He was a Fulbright Scholar in Ukraine from 2013–14, and is the editor of Ukraine in Crisis (Routledge, 2017). He writes from Odessa,
Ukraine.
The US will provide Ukraine with $250 million worth of military equipment, training and
support, the Pentagon announced, saying Ukraine's Navy and marines would be among the
beneficiaries.
The Ukrainian military will get sniper rifles, grenade launchers, counter-battery radar
systems, night vision equipment and communication devices, the Pentagon statement said...
The statement said the package will bring total US security assistance to Ukraine to $1.5
billion since 2014, when a US-backed coup in Kiev ousted Ukraine's elected government.
There appears to be no sense in further discussion of a possible softening of relations
between Russia and Ukraine; it is evident from recent developments that Zelenskiy is only
Poroshenko Lite, and while he might not have such a penchant for thieving and running
businesses on the side – and might even make an honest effort to tackle domestic issues
like corruption – when it comes to international affairs he is in lockstep with the US
State Department.
Kuh-yiv is once again trying to drag international arbitrators into the situation, and to
get a ruling that Russia is encroaching upon Ukrainian mineral resources and fishing rights
in the Black Sea and 'other waters'. It is a pretty obvious attempt to get an international
ruling on the legality of Russia's claim to territorial waters off Crimea and in the Kerch
Strait. Ukraine and its western backers know very well Russia would not recognize any such
ruling if it were made, but then the United States would get its rule-of-law feathers all
a-ruffle, and we would take another step closer to war.
Zelenskiy has also appointed former Economy Minister Aivaras Abromavicius to the
supervisory board of the state defence conglomerate Ukroboronprom. So that's the Lithuanians
back in government in Ukraine – can we look forward to Madame Jaresko making a
reprise?
I don't know that Zelenskiy is pursuing a 'Jewish agenda", and I saw no sign of it when he was
just a performer; he did do that skit in leather pants and high heels, but it was pretty funny
and I wouldn't say his public experiences with gender themes constituted a position on gay
rights. Trudeau is obsessed with gay rights and human rights in general, to the extent that he
outsources foreign policy to Chrystia Freeland, and I think we will notice pretty quickly if
Zelenskiy starts acting too much like Trudeau.
I would agree, though, that Zelenskiy shows increasing comfort with being western-advised
and directed. Consequently, I don't expect there will be any change in the enmity between
Ukraine and Russia, although the nationalists seem to be quieter than they were under
Poroshenko. Russia is certainly not going to give back Crimea and step aside while the eastern
republics are forcibly re-integrated, and Zelenskiy claims he will accept nothing less.
The curious part is, Putin already stipulated that Moscow would not object to Ukraine
joining the European Union. Oh, it was a different world then, and Ukraine was not a violent
enemy embroiled in a civil war, of course. This was before the west's full-bore propaganda
onslaught against Russia, when the possibility still existed that the EU and Eurasian Union
could co-exist, trade and do business with one another, to mutual benefit and profit. That
Portuguese prick Barosso shot that possibility dead, and now he has gone on to his earthly
reward as non-executive Chairman of Goldman-Sachs International – another way of saying
he has a job where he can do the crossword puzzle all day and still take home a paycheck that
makes him wonder if he is dreaming. Who says crime doesn't pay? People who are afraid to try
crime; that's who.
Anyway, Putin was cautious, but his words were not ambiguous – if the people of
Ukraine genuinely want to join the EU, Russia, I think, would welcome this. And look where we
are now: thousands of people dead, millions displaced, the Ukrainian economy in the toilet and
new sanctions flying around every day, disrupting global supply chains and shutting off markets
forever. Europe keeps signing on to another extension of sanctions, and Russia could not care
less. Anything it has not already started up a domestic producer for, it has sourced elsewhere,
and those markets are gone – European farmers are hopeful that sanctions will be lifted,
but it will not make any real difference now if they are. European fruit growers and produce
farmers are going to have to get used to the idea that the USA has pissed in their well, and
those markets are not coming back.
I disagree. The Anglo rulers employ the Zionist tribe as needed. Both are equally evil but not
equally influential.
The new kid on the block is Asia; largely untainted by the Anglo world outside of Japan. The
Anglos are a wily bunch and are plotting how to spread their cancer to Asia now that they have
largely destroyed their current hosts. However, as I said before, China may have figured out
how to tame money so the Anglos will have a tough time ahead. Moreover, Russia is finding new
strength in its old values.
"The origins of the conflict must be sought most immediately in the 2011 NATO war in Libya,
which, with the support of right-wing fundamentalist Islamist proxy forces, destroyed the
government of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi. The outcome of this war was the complete destruction of
Libyan society. The country is now run by rival militia groups tied to the imperialist powers,
who have kept the country in a state of civil war for nearly a decade since the NATO
intervention.
Following the destruction of the Gaddafi regime, thousands of fighters poured out of Libya
and across the Sahara, traveling to the Sahel region, including Mali. Various rival militias
declared an independent or Islamic state in northern Mali.
Paris reacted in 2013 by launching a new war to occupy its former colony, one of the poorest
countries in the world, to save the Bamako regime and destroy the northern Mali militias. For
six years now, Paris has sunk deeper into a quagmire in Mali. President Emmanuel Macron has
continued the war, codenamed Operation Barkhane, initiated by Socialist Party (PS) President
François Hollande, involving an occupation force of 4,500 French troops and troops from
five former French colonies in the Sahel: Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania and Niger.
As it rapidly moves to re-militarize its foreign policy, Berlin also approved military
operations in support of the French only two months after the initial French invasion. Last
month, the German parliament voted overwhelmingly to extend the military occupation of the
country with 1,100 soldiers until 2020, at a yearly cost of 400 million euros.
These operations have nothing to do with protecting the local population from Islamist
militias, which were armed and funded by US and European intelligence agencies in Libya. They
are aimed at propping up the puppet government in Bamako, suppressing the resistance of the
impoverished rural population and workers to the government, and maintaining their control over
the resource-rich region.
The imperialist intervention in Mali led directly to the growth of ethnic tensions between
the predominantly Muslim Fulani community and the Dogons. There are widespread suspicions of
state involvement in the ethnic conflicts that are now erupting. The Malian government has
utilized the Dogon militia in the French-led war against Islamist militias, which have
recruited disproportionately among the Fulani."
Sounds as if what's needed is a galvanizing 21st Century 'Mahdi' around whom black Africans
could unify to bring about a replay of Dien Bien Phu for the French in Africa. The victory celebration festivities could conclude with a 'Gordon in Khartoum' reenactment
using one of the (volunteer) captured French command officers as the General.
"... Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad sent shock waves in a public speech where he dismissed a Dutch "official" report blaming Russia for the downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17 in July, 2014, weeks after a CIA-led coup toppled the elected President of Ukraine. Despite the downplaying in western mainstream media of the Malaysian leader's comments, it is creating a major new potential embarrassment for ex-Vice President Joe Biden and his Ukraine collaborators such as Igor Kolomoisky, in their flimsy effort to blame Russia for their own misdeeds. ..."
"... By recasting doubt on those Dutch JIT conclusions, Mahathir has potentially opened a can of deadly worms that could come to haunt the Ukrainian government at the time, especially Igor Kolomoisky , the billionaire Ukrainian financial backer of the newly elected Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky . It potentially could also implicate then-Vice President Joe Biden and many others. ..."
"... Independent investigators into the destruction of MH17 stress the fact that the Dutch-led JIT deliberately excluded Malaysia as well as Russia from their group, but included the CIA-backed coup regime in Ukraine, hardly an unbiased party. Further, all telephone taps the JIT has presented as proof of the guilt of the Russians came from the Ukrainian secret service SBU. Since the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014, the SBU has been involved in repeated fake accusations aimed at Russia, including faked murder of a journalist later revealed to be quite alive . ..."
"... According to a Dutch site, Post Online, Eurocontrol, European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation, gave information to the Dutch Parliament about the status of Ukraine radar in 2016 informing that the Ukraine air traffic control organization UkSATSE failed to inform Eurocontrol in summer 2014 about the non-operational status of three radar systems in Eastern Ukraine, a grave violation of law. One of the three was taken in the wake of the CIA Ukraine coup in April by a masked band that destroyed the radar facility . ..."
"... Further, in another breach, the Ukrainian UkSATSE refused to permit their air traffic controller at Dnepropetrovsk, responsible for controlling flight MH17, to be questioned. According to Russian reports, the person "went on vacation" and never reappeared . ..."
"... Kolomoisky, who is notorious for hiring thugs and neo-nazis to beat up business and other opponents in Ukraine, reportedly secured the lucrative Burisma post for Hunter Biden, despite Biden's lack of any experience in Ukraine or in oil and gas, in return for Joe Biden lifting Kolomoisky's US visa travel ban. Joe Biden was the Obama Administration point person in charge of the 2014 CIA-orchestrated Maidan Square coup and toppling of the elected President Viktor Yanukovych. ..."
"... All these pieces of a very murky geopolitical puzzle underscore the dirty role that Ukraine and the Obama administration have played in demonizing Russia as well as the Trump Administration. Most recently, it appears that the US Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his staff, relied on a Ukrainian businessman named Konstantin Kilimnik, who worked for Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, as the key figure supposedly linked to Russian intelligence, as a key figure to make the case of Russian collusion or interference in the 2016 US elections. ..."
"... Far from a Putin agent, however, new evidence shows that Kilimnik, since at least 2013 was a confidential Ukrainian informant to the US State Department, according to US journalist John Solomon. ..."
"... Increasingly it is looking like the Ukraine and not Russia is the more likely source for interference in the 2016 US election, and not in the way we have been told by the establishment media such as CNN. ..."
Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad sent shock waves in a public speech where he
dismissed a Dutch "official" report blaming Russia for the downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17 in
July, 2014, weeks after a CIA-led coup toppled the elected President of Ukraine. Despite the
downplaying in western mainstream media of the Malaysian leader's comments, it is creating a
major new potential embarrassment for ex-Vice President Joe Biden and his Ukraine collaborators
such as Igor Kolomoisky, in their flimsy effort to blame Russia for their own
misdeeds.
During a dialogue with the Japanese Foreign Correspondent Club May 30, Mahathir challenged
the Dutch government to provide evidence for their claim that the civilian Malaysian FH17 jet
that crashed in Ukraine was shot down by a Russian-made BUK missile fired from a Russian
regiment based in Kursk. The Malaysian Prime Minister told the Japanese media,
"They are accusing Russia, but where is the evidence? We know the missile that brought
down the plane is a Russian type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine."
The blunt-spoken Mahathir added,
"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians; it could be by the rebels
in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile ."
He went on to demand that the Malaysian government be allowed to inspect the black box of
the crashed plane, stating the obvious, that the plane belongs to Malaysia, with Malaysian
pilot and there were Malaysians passengers:
"We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reasons, Malaysia
was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened."
He went on to state,
"We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we
see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened, but seems to
be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians ."
The Malaysian Air MH17 was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was shot down
over the conflict zone in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Only in May 2018 the Dutch-led
Joint Investigation Team issued its report alleging that a BUK missile was used to shoot down
Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, claiming that it originated from the 53rd Anti-aircraft Brigade
of the Russian Federation, stationed in Kursk near the Ukraine border.
The Dutch Joint
Investigation Team (JIT) declared that it "has come to the conclusion that the BUK-TELAR that
shot down MH17 came from 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia,"
according to top Dutch investigator Wilbert Paulissen. Paulissen added, "We are convinced that
our findings justify the
conclusions "
The Dutch-led group presented no concrete forensic proof, and Moscow has repeatedly denied
involvement in an act that would make no military or political sense for them. In 2018 the
Russian Defense Ministry provided evidence that the BUK missile which had exploded to destroy
the Malaysian passenger jet had been manufactured in a Russian plant in 1986, and then shipped
to the Ukraine. Its last recorded location was at a Ukrainian military base.
By recasting doubt on those Dutch JIT conclusions, Mahathir has potentially opened a can
of deadly worms that could come to haunt the Ukrainian government at the time, especially Igor
Kolomoisky , the billionaire Ukrainian financial backer of the newly elected Ukrainian
president Volodymyr Zelensky . It potentially could also implicate then-Vice President Joe
Biden and many others.
Open Questions
Independent investigators into the destruction of MH17 stress the fact that the
Dutch-led JIT deliberately excluded Malaysia as well as Russia from their group, but included
the CIA-backed coup regime in Ukraine, hardly an unbiased party. Further, all telephone taps
the JIT has presented as proof of the guilt of the Russians came from the Ukrainian secret
service SBU. Since the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine in 2014, the SBU has been involved in
repeated fake accusations aimed at Russia, including faked murder of a journalist later
revealed to be quite
alive .
One of the central issues that the Dutch JIT group never addressed is why, at a time it was
a known warzone, and commercial international flights were told to avoid the airspace in
eastern Ukraine, the MH17 flight was reportedly ordered by Ukraine air traffic control
authorities in Dnepropetrovsk to change course and to fly directly into the war zone. According
to a Dutch site, Post Online, Eurocontrol, European Organisation for the Safety of Air
Navigation, gave information to the Dutch Parliament about the status of Ukraine radar in 2016
informing that the Ukraine air traffic control organization UkSATSE failed to inform
Eurocontrol in summer 2014 about the non-operational status of three radar systems in Eastern
Ukraine, a grave violation of law. One of the three was taken in the wake of the CIA Ukraine
coup in April by a masked band that destroyed the radar
facility .
Further, in another breach, the Ukrainian UkSATSE refused to permit their air traffic
controller at Dnepropetrovsk, responsible for controlling flight MH17, to be questioned.
According to Russian reports, the person "went on vacation" and never
reappeared .
The Kolomoisky Factor
Notably, at the time of the MH17 downing, the Ukrainian governor of the Dnepropetrovsk
Oblast or region, was Igor Kolomoisky. Kolomoisky, who is listed as the third richest man in
Ukraine with an empire in oil, coal, metals and banking, was also reported to be directly
linked via offshore entities to control of Burisma, the shady Ukrainian gas company that named
the son of then-Vice President Joe Biden to its
board .
Kolomoisky, who is notorious for hiring thugs and neo-nazis to beat up business and
other opponents in Ukraine, reportedly secured the lucrative Burisma post for Hunter Biden,
despite Biden's lack of any experience in Ukraine or in oil and gas, in return for Joe Biden
lifting Kolomoisky's US visa travel ban. Joe Biden was the Obama Administration point person in
charge of the 2014 CIA-orchestrated Maidan Square coup and toppling of the
elected President Viktor Yanukovych.
Notably, the Mahathir remarks have drawn attention anew to the mysterious circumstances
around the downing of Malaysian Air MH17 in 2014 and the potential role of Kolomoisky and
others, in that. The role of corrupt Ukraine officials backed by the Obama Administration, is
now under scrutiny.
Notably, the new President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, is widely reported to be a
protégé of Igor Kolomoisky. Zelensky became a national name as a comedian on a
Ukraine TV station owned by Kolomoisky, and the latter reportedly provided funds and personnel
to run the comedian's victorious May 2019 election campaign in which he defeated incumbent
Petro Poroshenko, a bitter foe of Kolomoisky. Following Zelensky's election victory, Kolomoisky
returned to Ukraine after exile in Switzerland following a bitter falling out
with Petr Poroshenko in 2015.
All these pieces of a very murky geopolitical puzzle underscore the dirty role that Ukraine
and the Obama administration have played in demonizing Russia as well as the Trump
Administration. Most recently, it appears that the US Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his
staff, relied on a Ukrainian businessman named Konstantin Kilimnik, who worked for Trump
campaign chairman Paul Manafort, as the key figure supposedly linked to Russian intelligence,
as a key figure to make the case of Russian collusion or interference in the 2016 US
elections.
Far from a Putin agent, however, new evidence shows that Kilimnik, since at least 2013 was a
confidential Ukrainian informant to the US State Department, according to US journalist John
Solomon. Solomon cites FBI documents including State Department emails he has seen where Kilimnik is described as a "sensitive" intelligence source for the US State Department. The
Mueller report left that embarrassing detail out for some reason. Kilimnik worked for Paul
Manafort who before the 2014 Ukraine coup had served as a lobbyist for Ukrainian elected
president Viktor Yanukovych and his Party of the Regions.
Their shadowy acts in Ukraine may soon come to haunt key figures in Ukraine such as
Kolomoisky, as well as people like Joe Biden and family. From the true authorship of the
downing of MH17, which Dutch and other investigators believe was linked to Kolomoisky actors,
to the Ukraine business dealings of Hunter Biden to the true facts of the Mueller "Russiagate"
probe, all could well prove to be a far more revealing investigation for the US Justice
Department than the obviously biased Mueller probe has been.
Increasingly it is looking like
the Ukraine and not Russia is the more likely source for interference in the 2016 US election,
and not in the way we have been told by the establishment media such as CNN.
*
Note to readers: please click the share buttons above or below. Forward this article to your
email lists. Crosspost on your blog site, internet forums. etc.
F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds a degree in
politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling author on oil and geopolitics,
exclusively for the online magazine "New
Eastern Outlook" where this article was originally published.
He is a Research Associate of the Centre for Research on Globalization.
"... Tulsi: "While I agree that Russia is both directly and indirectly responsible for this downed plane shot down by the separatists, we've got to look at this in the bigger picture. We've got to look at Russia's incursion into Ukraine, Ukraine's sovereignty " ..."
"... "Not a single anti-aircraft missile system of the Russian Armed Forces has ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border," ..."
"... "the determination of the Dutch-led investigation to justifying its conclusions by solely using images from social networks that have been expertly altered with computer graphic editing tools." ..."
"... had been previously displayed by the infamous British online investigative activist group, Bellingcat. ..."
"... "the 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia". ..."
"... "the Dutch investigators completely ignore and reject the testimony of eyewitnesses from the nearby Ukrainian communities", according to the Defense Ministry. The testimonies, however, provided essential information "indicating the launch of a missile was carried out from a territory controlled by the Ukrainian Armed Forces." ..."
"... "comprehensive" ..."
"... "clearly indicate the involvement of the Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft system units" ..."
Who Shot Down Flight MH17 over Eastern Ukraine in 2014?
span ted by wendy davis on Sun, 06/02/2019 - 11:19am
Well of course it was the Evil Russians! Didn't Russians also shoot Roger Rabbit? We'd been discussing this 2014 interview with
Tulsi Gabbard on my post ' analyses of the leaked 'Deal of the Century'
I/P peace plan '
that I'd found that day and posted in comments, mainly wanting to feature her anti-Palestinian Hasbara. As I remember it, this 'blame'
started the horrific sanctions on Russia.
Tulsi: "While I agree that Russia is both directly and indirectly responsible for this downed plane shot down by the separatists,
we've got to look at this in the bigger picture. We've got to look at Russia's incursion into Ukraine, Ukraine's sovereignty "
TravelerXXX had bookmarked this Eric Zuesse exposé that I'd vaguely recalled and brought it in:
'MH17 Turnabout: Ukraine's Guilt Now Proven', December 31,
2018,
strategic-culture.org
It's about nine yards long with zillions of hyperlinks, so long I don't even guess I'd ever finished it, which makes it hard
to figure out what, if any, nuggets to feature, but he did link to this:
'MH-17: the untold story', 22
Oct,
2014, RT.com, including a 27-minute video documentary.
"Three months after Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was brought down over Ukraine, there are still no definitive answers about
what caused the tragedy. Civil conflict in the area prevented international experts from conducting a full and thorough investigation.
The wreckage should have been collected and scrupulously re-assembled to identify all the damage, but this standard investigative
procedure was never carried out. Until that's done, evidence can only be gleaned from pictures of the debris, the flight recorders
(black boxes) and eye-witnesses testimonies. This may be enough to help build a picture of what really happened to the aircraft,
whether a rocket fired from the ground or a military jet fired on the doomed plane."
I'd later added to that thread, including some photos of a beaming Netanyahu holding a map of the Golan Heights that Herr Trump
had signed with his approval (indicating the leaked plan just may be The Real Deal) when Up Jumped the Devil:
'Where
is the evidence?' Malaysian PM says attempts to pin MH17 downing on Russia lack proof', 30 May,
2019, RT.com
"Malaysia has accepted the Dutch report that a 'Russian-made' missile shot down its civilian airliner MH17 over eastern Ukraine
in 2014, but has yet to see evidence it was fired by Russia, said Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad.
"They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence?" Mahathir told reporters at the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ)
in Tokyo on Thursday.
"You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians," the prime minister went on, according to the Malaysian state
news agency Bernama. "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile."
"Mahathir was skeptical that anyone involved with the Russian military could have launched the missile that struck the plane,
however, arguing that it would have been clear to professionals that the target was a civilian airliner.
"I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he said.
The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT), whose report last year blamed Moscow for shooting down MH17, barred Russia from
participating in the investigation, but involved the government of Ukraine. Although Malaysia is also a member of JIT,Mahathir
revealed that his country's officials have been blocked from examining the plane's flight recorders.
"For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened," he said. "We
don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it."
"This is not a neutral kind of examination," Mahathir added.
Rejecting the JIT accusations, Russia made public the evidence the Dutch-led researchers refused to look into, including the
serial number of the missile that allegedly struck MH17, showing that it was manufactured in the Soviet Union in 1986 and was in
the arsenal of the Ukrainian army at the time of the tragedy."
b of Moon of Alabama offered this whopping 55 minute press conference video with Malaysian PM Mahathir on Twitter
on May 31.
But aha! RT had later provided on the left sidebar:
May 24,
2018: 'No
Russian missile system ever crossed into Ukraine: MoD rejects Dutch MH17 claims', RT.com
"The Russian Defense Ministry has rejected new claims that flight MH17 over Ukraine was downed by a missile from a Russian unit,
urging the Dutch-led probe to focus on studying hard facts instead of social media images.
"Not a single anti-aircraft missile system of the Russian Armed Forces has ever crossed the Russian-Ukrainian border,"
the defense ministry said in statement.
The Russian military raised eyebrows over "the determination of the Dutch-led investigation to justifying its conclusions
by solely using images from social networks that have been expertly altered with computer graphic editing tools."
The ministry pointed out that
the images used in the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) press conference on Thursday were provided by the Ukrainian special
services and had been previously displayed by the infamous British online investigative activist group,
Bellingcat.
The Dutch-led probe announced that the missile that downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in July 2014 came from a Russian military
Buk system that crossed into Ukraine and then returned to its base in western Russia.
Investigators claim the missile system involved came from "the 53rd Anti-aircraft Missile Brigade based in Kursk in Russia".
The JIT essentially just repeated the conclusion made by Bellingcat a year ago.
The alarming part in the JIT probe is that "the Dutch investigators completely ignore and reject the
testimony of eyewitnesses from the nearby Ukrainian communities", according to the Defense Ministry. The testimonies, however,
provided essential information "indicating the launch of a missile was carried out from a territory controlled by the Ukrainian
Armed Forces."
The Russian side said that it provided the international probe with "comprehensive"evidence, including field tests,
which "clearly indicate the involvement of the Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft system units" in the destruction of the plane
with 283 passengers and 15 crew members onboard."
This video that Eric Zuesse had up may be part of the referenced eye witness testimony.
Have brought up Gabbard's sticking with the lies and false narratives regarding Russia and Ukraine, clearly one of her blind
spots in her "antiwar" political campaign, that along with the massive and unrelenting war OF terror. That letter is a rather disgusting
display of imperialist obfuscation by the duopoly political parties, fully supporting the lies about Maduro and what's happening
in VS and in effect providing cover for future actions. You can't claim to be against military action while also lying about the
reasons. Of course they can, that's how they prep the public for imperial advances. up 4 users have voted.
i totally endorse zuesse's theory, but oh my, he'd brought in a lot of moving parts at the time. paranoid conspiracy theory
or 'coincidence theory', as some brilliant mofo used to ask. (i'l think of his name later.) the russian defense ministry's contentions
are in conflict with zuesse's (buk missiles v. another jet with missiles), but i sure as hell know that the dutch report
decision in advance was bullshit. i'd think that one would have to be willfully blind to accept it at face value, esp.
if any of them like gabbard were on the defense and intel committees at the time. same with madurro's venezuela, to pretend
that it's not mainly the egregious sanctions and blockades that are responsible for the estimated 40,000 citizens who've died
for lack of medicines and food. and now their CLAP food delivery system is under attack...again.
i get that the intel they're fed is rubbish, but they all have the duty to look further than what lies they're spoon fed.
CEPR has been incredibly valuable a resource for one, and it's pretty mainstream.
but he's right about one thing: yanukovitch was overthrown due to his refusal to sign the EU association memo, and when Imperialists
speak of how 'russia stole crimea', or refuse to see why the separatists in the donbass formed their own independent nation-states,
it's utter hypocrisy.
thanks for reading and commenting, big al.
oh, and do you know if tulsi's FP is still at her house.gov site? i looked at all her press releases that were dated after
that offensive letter, but i'd found nothing new.
@wendy davis I mean, there's the establishment/government narrative and there's the truth, that's about all I need to
know. It's like that saying "trust, but verify". I say fuck that, "don't trust, and verify that".
I don't know about Gabbard's FP, she's done some housecleaning and avoided certain things since becoming the CFR's choice for
2024. Again, I've already done enough research, what, for over 3 years now?, to see what she's all about, something I failed
to do in 2007/8 regarding Obama. Lo and behold, all the clues were there just waiting to be uncovered, but I wasn't in the same
place as now.
...by the Russians, who were not allowed to participate in the Dutch investigation. The information and data was presented
to the Dutch and to the Western media in September 2018. Everything one could hope to see in physical evidence is here. There
is additional evidence not in this article that adds to the details and forensics presented here.
This information was not published in the West or in the Vassal State of Netherlands. The US possesses satellite photos of
the incident. But it has classified those photos and refuses to release them.
As for means, motive and opportunity:
• MH17 was shot down over Ukraine, not over Russia.
• It was shot down with a missile owned by Ukraine, not by Russia.
• It had propaganda value for Ukraine and its CIA masters, none for
• The missile was fired from territory controlled by the neo nazi Kiev regime.
But the best evidence of what took place, as far as I'm concerned, is right here:
Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, falling in the rebel-held part of
the country. The crash claimed the lives of 283 passengers and 15 crew members, most of them Dutch nationals. Russia
was blamed by Western media in the first days after the tragedy, even before any evidence had been collected on the ground.
and thank you. your memory is prodigious, and having the 2018 RT news is srsly helpful, as is your M,M, & O formula. blame
first, then fail to allow russia (and malaysia) to be able to run investigations. good to know as well that the malaysian minister
knew of the serial numbers and that ukraine owned the missiles.
eric zuesse had said that even dutch journalists were raising havoc with the JIT back in the day. but just think what this
false blame resulting in mega-sanctions began, then onto the skripals, russia-gate in many guises, and tra la la.
mr. wd laughed this mornin' and said he wishes he had a choice to vote for sergei lavrov for prez; i second that!
dunno if the EU still wants a compact with ukraine, but NATO sure wants the neo-nazi nation as a member. ping: if i have
the energy and time, i'll try to find in zuesse's tome admissions by snipers in 2014, as well.
Must admit I didn't hunt down her Ukraine position, but my personal take is Obummer and the CIA set out to foment problems
and managed to get a fascists regime elected in order to oppose Russia. The new Ukrainian president may take things in a more
pro-Russia direction?
site, at her election site. well, check out Russia , for now. and i do thank you; i was lookin' in all the wrong places.
; )i'll check out more soon as i have time, but zounds: russia: crimea, the nation's interference in our election, wooof. of
course jill stein raised boatloads of bucks for recounts in three states on the basis of russian interference, later 'foreign
interference' against the wishes of the green party board and her own running mate, so...there's that, but it was just a dodge
against trump winning, not hillary. sorry, tulsi.
for being in such a hurry i hadn't even registered your speculation about zelenskiy, but nah, he wants crimea and the donbass
self-declared republics that Putin stole from him...back. he's being lauded and applauded for 'standing up to KGB Putin'. ;
)
and the IMF's bailin' em out again so they have enough to pay their NATO dues and join the EU. (just saw that tryin' to remember
how to sorta spell the comic's name.)
maybe it was passengers', was returned to Malaysia ... but in a sealed coffin, that even family members were refused to open.
At the time an OSCE member was the first to arrive at the crash site. Some 20 minutes after the downing. The photos taken
by him, or so it was attributed, showed round holes (not shrapnel) shot in the pilot area. Sorry I don't have any links handy
on either of these, but I'm pretty sure this is correct.
as i understand it, the hole size was not in contention. but weather it had been the pilot or a passenger: '...but in a sealed
coffin, that even family members were refused to open.'
is that perhaps a malaysian custom? is the truth out there somewhere?
eric zuesse remind us, the holes in the cockpit were likely from machine guns on the ukrainian fighter jet sent to make sure
the ukie buk missiles had (omg) killed the plane, which if i'm getting it right (a big IF) was changing direction as it went
down. my apologies for not getting all the moving parts and claims right on this thread.
but the 21st century wire shows charts and evidence that the flight crew was ordered to change course by the air traffic
control tower (as per the later censored bbc plus recordings).
...was involved in the downing of MH17, which was the opinion of many aviation experts and others, who found bullet holes
in the cockpit, wings, and fuselage. This in addition to Buk damage.
Recordings were captured by multiple sources of a frightened and stressed Ukrainian pilot, who radioed, "I shot the wrong
plane!" He sounded as if he was commanded to shoot down a military target plane and was misled into shooting a passenger jet.
That pilot, named Voloshyn, later committed suicide.
The typical recollection of the incident is:
A fighter was also sent up to 'make sure' the target plane was shot down. If I remember rightly, the plane was hit, but
was still flying and it began to turn back. If the plane story (which I tend to believe) is true, it's at that point that
the fighter jet opened fire on the cockpit and wings.
That would also account for Buk damage to the Boeing, as well as fighter machine gun damage to the cockpit.
You can find many references to this incident along with transcripts of the conversation between the fighter pilot and the
ground base.
video confessions from the snipers at maidan (i assume ukrainians firing on protestors in front of the trades union building
that was eventually...burned to the ground.
but this?
"For instance, Moscow said a theory was never tested that the airliner could have been downed by a fighter jet spotted
by Russian radar stations near flight MH17. The theory was later proven false by the discovery of debris from the Buk rocket.
Though Russia doesn't possess those black boxes ( which, by chance, were handed by the pro-Russian separatists to the
Malaysian Government's representative, and yet that Government handed them to Netherland's Government instead of to Russia's
-- apparently trusting Netherlands more than trusting Russia or even themselves), Russia does possess, and publicly reveals,
evidence that's conclusive on its own; and it is 100% consistent with Haisenko's reconstruction of the event, regardless
whether a Buk was involved or not."
one of his links went to ' MH17 Verdict: Real Evidence Points to US-Kiev Cover-up of Failed False Flag '
July 25, 2014 , 21stcenturywire.com
"As MH17 moved into Ukrainian air space, it was moved by ATC Kiev approximately 200 miles north – putting it on a new
course, heading directly into a war zone, a well-known dangerous area by now – one that's hosted a number of downed military
craft over the previous 3 weeks. Robert Mark, a commercial pilot and editor of Aviation International News Safety magazine,
confirmed that most Malaysia Airlines flights from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur would normally travel along a route significantly
further south than the route MH17 was diverted onto.
Data on all airline flight records can be found here. The BBC reported on July 17th: " Ukraine's SBU security service
has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner,
a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
a great (and lengthy) collaborative investigation by 21st century wire. thanks, obomba, thanks, tulsi, thanks Pierre and
vickie nuland. and even the new guy can't control his neo-nazis. but then again, at least yulia tymoshenko didn't win.
but NATO will add them to the roster soon, which is one of the reasons that the atlantic council had recommended him: to
root out poroshenko's oligarchs' corruption.
but i almost wish i hadn't it's sooooo long and full of twists and turns, news reports, videos, but in general the theme
is that mikhail saakashvilli hired them, then stiffed them.
' The "Snipers' Massacre" in Kiev -- Another False Flag? ',
January
13, 2015 , granvillepost.com, eric zuesse
you may remember him best john Mccains buddy: 'today we are all georgians'? like ahmed chalabi, he's the proverbial bad penny
who keeps returning in whatever guise needed (after expulsions), and the
big news this week is that zelenskiy's reinstated his ukrainian
citizenship after promising to give up his former ambitions and work with the new prez.
"... In unexpected statements Malaysia Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has questioned the methodology behind Dutch investigators who produced what the West considers the authoritative report on the tragic shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 while flying over war-torn eastern Ukraine. He criticized that the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) seems "to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians" . ..."
"... The Malaysian PM further went so far as to point to Ukrainian pro-government forces as being prime suspects: "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile," he said. ..."
"... Mahathir further slammed the decision to exclude Malaysian investigators from the black box examination: "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened," he said . ..."
"... "We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it and the idea was to find out how this happened but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians." ..."
"... Russia has also rejected the conclusions of the European JIT report, saying the missile that struck the civilian airliner was manufactured in the Soviet Union in 1986, and was part of the Ukrainian army arsenal at the time of the shoot down. ..."
"... Tell Malaysia they cannot access the black-box on their plane that was shot down, and they will tell you where to put your authoritative report. ..."
In unexpected statements Malaysia Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad has questioned the
methodology behind Dutch investigators who produced what the West considers the authoritative
report on the tragic shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 in 2014 while flying over
war-torn eastern Ukraine. He criticized that the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) seems
"to be concentrated on trying to pin it on the Russians" .
The Malaysian leader told reporters at the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (FCCJ)
in Tokyo on Thursday "They are accusing Russia but where is the evidence?" Mahathir said
his country accepted that a "Russian-made missile" shot down its civilian airliner, killing all
283 passengers and 15 crew members on board, but that "You need strong evidence to show it was
fired by the Russians."
He ultimately questioned the objectivity of the investigators in what major regional media
described as a "jaw dropping speech" .
Australia's prime state run news service
ABC News noted the Malaysian PM's speech has sent shock waves through the region as it
questioned everything Australia's own leaders have said. "From the very beginning we see too
much politics in it," Mahathir said in reference to the official Dutch-led investigation.
A total of 38 Australians were killed in the Boeing-777 shoot down and crash, and the
majority were Dutch nationals. The ABC report summarized of the "bombshell"
charges leveled by PM Mahathir :
"Based on these findings, the only conclusion we can reasonably now draw is that Russia
was directly involved in the downing of MH17," Australia's then-prime minister and foreign
minister Malcolm Turnbull and Julie Bishop said in a joint statement.
"The Russian Federation must be held to account for its conduct in the downing of MH17
over eastern Ukraine, which resulted in the tragic deaths of 298 passengers and crew,
including 38 people who called Australia home."
But in a bombshell speech to the Japanese Foreign Correspondents Club (JFCC) on Thursday,
Dr Mahathir was having none of it, accusing those who blamed Russia of scapegoating the
nation for "political" reasons .
The Malaysian PM further went so far as to point to Ukrainian pro-government forces as
being prime suspects: "It could be by the rebels in Ukraine; it could be Ukrainian government
because they too have the same missile," he said.
Interestingly, this has been Russia's position all along, which has already led some
international media sources to suggest of
the deeply contrarian Friday speech , "Dr Mahathir is known to enjoy a good conspiracy
theory."
Mahathir further slammed the decision to exclude Malaysian investigators from the black
box examination: "We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reason,
Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened,"
he said .
"We don't know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we
see too much politics in it and the idea was to find out how this happened but seems to be
concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians."
The Malaysian PM's headline grabbing comments were made in English in response to a
reporter's question:
He concluded that, "This is not a neutral kind of examination" -- again questioning the
basis on which suspicions of pro-Kiev forces appeared to have been superficially ruled out from
the start.
"I don't think a very highly disciplined party is responsible for launching the missile," he
added, according to
Australia's ABC .
Russia has also rejected the conclusions of the European JIT report, saying the missile
that struck the civilian airliner was manufactured in the Soviet Union in 1986, and was part of
the Ukrainian army arsenal at the time of the shoot down.
The consensus of the "international community" is that the Russians are responsible.
Anything outside the consensus view is not permissible. That's how democracy works. And also
how science works.
I would trust the Dutch investigators about as much as I trust the OPCW with regard to
chemical weapons use.
Without Russia, ASSAD would be long gone and IRAN would have been bombed to oblivion, and
Greater Israhell would have been fulfilled and ruling over the MidEast.
Deep State had its hands all over that downed Aircraft, he who records History, creates
History, for proof compare schoolbooks from any different generations !
It shows everyone just how fucked up the world has gotten when a foreign leader has the
balls to speak some truth in public and what he said is instantly labeled "deeply
contrarian".
Keep this in mind when you hear anything negative about Russia coming out of the UK or out
of one of her spawn like Australia . . . Great Britain has had a total hard-on for Russia
going back over 200 years and to this day will do anything in their power to **** Russia over
any chance they get. It's primarily because of the actions of the UK that there's such an
anti-Russian push in the US right now.
The shoot down of MH17 was just another attempt to stick it to the Russians and there's
British finger prints all over that incident (for example, who still has the black boxes from
that flight and won't let the Russians or anyone else see them, hmm?).
I said it back then (er helped say it) - listen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWlAARb0fN4
. Ukrainian Su-25's strafed the pilots with bullets - it was no BUK missile
Another false flag from the evil cabal of blackhatted ZioNazi scum.The world needs to be
rid of this cancer...and to think that some of these Pentagram monsters are grandparents.
The litany of 'highly likely' accusations were so pervasive they were blacking out the sun
like a swarm of locusts. It's my hope that this is changing. More lies about Syria,
Venuzuala, Iran etc. told to save the liars with new war worries. Would be nice to see
normalcy come to the US, but maybe it must come completely apart first, I hope not. But the
empire is not looking too good lately.
Props to the Malay guy. Fragments of the missile used in the attack were found, and the
serial # recovered. The missile was made in Russia in the 80s, and shipped to Ukraine at that
time. There is an entire hand written inventory(it can be seen at Veteranstoday.com ) from date of manufacture up to it's
delivery to a missile battery in Ukraine. It remained there in the Ukraine until pieces of it
were recovered at the crash site. Check it out.
UKRAINE ELECTION. He was invited everywhere, pressed the flesh with everyone, has a whole
wall of ego pictures; in the end he was defeated by Anybody-At-All. I have no idea what
Zelensky will turn out to be and I doubt anyone else does either. But the conclusion is that
the entire "revolution of dignity" fiasco has been rejected: whatever Ukraine the voters want,
it's not the one Nuland & Co gave them.
Mahathir bin Mohamad, Prime Minister of Malaysia, in an interview with FCCJ (Foreign
Correspondents' Club of Japan) stated that he did not believe in Russia's involvement in the
crash of the Boeing MH17. The politician, in fact, directly accused the so-called JIT of
being biased and not transparent. Video at 40:56.
Just a few excerpts:
We should be involved in examining the black box. We may not have the expertise, but we can
buy expertise. But for some reason or other Malaysia was not allowed in to check on the
black box to see what happened.
<...>
They are accusing Russians of firing the missile but what is the evidence? We need
strong evidence to show that it was fired by the Russians, but it could have been the
rebels in Ukraine, it could even be the Ukrainian government because they too have the same
missile.
<...>
We don't know why we are excluded from the examination, but from the very beginning we
see too much politics in it. The idea was not to find out how this happened and all
that, but they seemed to be concentrated on trying to pin it on Russia . This is not a
neutral kind of examination.
<...>
Here we have parties who have some political interest in the matter and they
examine.
<...>
People from Russia - they are military people. Military people would know that it is a
passenger plane. <...> I don't think [that] discipline, very highly discipline party
would be responsible for launching the missile.
By the way, a year ago Malaysian Minister of Transport Anthony Loke
spoke about this. The JIT obviously found this "not very important". Who would doubt. The
task of covering up the Ukrainian regime that shot down the plane is still relevant. Just
wondering how many more years they will play this farce with an "investigation".
Mahathir bin Mohamad, Prime Minister of Malaysia, in an interview with FCCJ (Foreign
Correspondents' Club of Japan) stated that he did not believe in Russia's involvement in the
crash of the Boeing MH17. The politician, in fact, directly accused the so-called JIT of
being biased and not transparent.
------------------------
"... They will be the ones to blackmail Europe and Germany if Europe becomes dependent on LNG from the U.S. So everything U.S. administrations are yelling at others is just projection, one knows immediately that it is in fact what the U.S. is doing under the veil or will be doing when the need/opportunity will arise. ..."
"... Trump is not an aberration, it is just how the U.S. always behaved, but now it is in the open, for all to see, the crassness and the bullying. ..."
"... Germany is the linchpin of the world and the U.S. (and others) is becoming hysterical at the possibility of not keeping the Germans down any longer… ..."
"... American Jewish intellectuals have really jumped the shark since the Iraq War. The most outlandish, slandering statements are stuffed into their essays and they trash whole peoples at the slightest “offence” to their worldview. ..."
If Daenerys Targaryen had announced her desire to use her last dragon to torch Moscow and
Saint Petersburg, the Neocons would have lionized her as the womanly exemplar of democracy
and wise foreign policy that produces peace and justice for all.
Neocons are very much the evil they call us to battle.
I had to rub my eyes with incredulity when I read that.
If Russia wants to weaken Ukraine, why did it ever build a pipeline through it in the first
place? Russia didn't stop using the Ukraine pipeline intially for political reasons. It was
because Ukraine was stealing gas meant for pass-through to other European countries and it
wasn't paying its bills. Don't pay your utility bills and see what happens.
Russia does not want to "control" Germany with Nord Stream, it wants to make money. And
Germany wants cheap gas. Strictly business.
And how can Russia control Germany with Nord Stream when it knows that the first time it
shuts off gas for political reasons would be the last. Because Russia knows that Germany will
find alternative suppliers and never come back. The Russians ain't stupid.
Russia wants bilateral trade with Europe without the Global Cop Gorilla perpetually in the
background arrogant calling the shots.
The final reconciliation of Europe and Russia should have occurred 25 years but didn't
because the ham-fisted United States threw up the fear-monger barriers. And that was because
its National Security States wants an existential "enemy" to justify its massive costs.
The sooner Europe ejects the U.S. War Machine from its territories the better. Better for
Europe, better for Russia and better for the American taxpayers.
I am with SteveM here. And I was shocked to see MarkVA’s comment. Mark has proved to
be a respectable commentator, especially on Rod’s Blog, with very astute and sensible
observations. It seems that tribalism is clouding his judgment when observing the world outside
the U.S.
It is well known that the Soviets and the Russians always keep their end of the bargain and
they know if they don’t do so they will end up loosing and being vilified. Whereas the
U.S. always breaks its agreements, it is not thrust worthy (not agreement capable). Imagine
depending on such an economic partner?!
They will be the ones to blackmail Europe and Germany if Europe becomes dependent on LNG
from the U.S. So everything U.S. administrations are yelling at others is just projection, one
knows immediately that it is in fact what the U.S. is doing under the veil or will be doing
when the need/opportunity will arise.
Trump is not an aberration, it is just how the U.S. always behaved, but now it is in the
open, for all to see, the crassness and the bullying.
Germany is the linchpin of the world and the U.S. (and others) is becoming hysterical at
the possibility of not keeping the Germans down any longer… And Germany is moving
ahead. It just sacrificed West Bank, and declared the BDS movement illegal as a soap to
Israelis, to burnish its credentials with those blackmailers, so that it will become free to
re-orient its politics and strategic configuration as it needs and wants.
fabian, May 23, 2019 at 2:33 pm
Gas? Where is the problem? Russian gas is cheaper that’s it. Furthermore, there is
another pipeline that’s going to bring gas from the Mediterranean to Europe and another
from Qatar.
And if all else fails and Russia flexes its muscles (which ones by the way) do you think
that the over-indebted America will not sell its gas to the Germans?
And yes, it’s not a good strategy to be too dependent on America. It quickly takes the
goods away when its interests are at stake.
Tiktaalik, May 24, 2019 at 5:14 pm
@MarkVA
>>The Nord Stream I and II gas pipe lines (aka Molotov-Ribbentrop Gas Lines), a
Gazprom initiative, has everything to do with weakening Ukraine and increasing German energy
dependence on Russia;
How could NS increase German energy dependence on Russia? It will be the very same gas which
at the moment flows through the Ukraine.
Surely, NS would decrease anybody’s dependence from the Ukraine. So what?
Tiktaalik, May 24, 2019 at 5:18 pm
@MarkVA
>>Oh, and some lesser European countries were partitioned by the important European
countries. So yes, Europe was quite busy spreading joy and happiness all around:
It’s a bit rich when it’s coming from an American. You’re still in
Plymouth, right?
Kouros, May 24, 2019 at 11:35 pm
@MarkVA (May 23, 2019 at 8:12 pm )
That was a hit with the posting on Ukraine…
To bad it wasn’t accompanied by the Recognition of the US administration that the
Golan Heights, taken from Syria by Israel after a war, against all worlds dictum, now belongs
to Israel.
At least in Crimea, which by administrative fiat was moved within USSR from Russia to
Ukraine in the 1950s, there was a referendum.
And for me, US is Devil Incarnate since it put a target of nuclear missiles on my mother
country. May the curse of a 1000 hells be upon it.
Josep, May 25, 2019 at 5:05 am
Reading sites like Russia Insider gave me the notion that Germany would be better off as
allies with Russia than with the USA. After all, Russia and Germany:
* are on the metric system
* have languages that use grammatical gender
* share the same 220-volt “Schuko” power plugs and sockets
* implement Civil Law, and most importantly
* aren’t separated by a whole ocean.
American Jewish intellectuals have really jumped the shark since the Iraq War. The most
outlandish, slandering statements are stuffed into their essays and they trash whole peoples at
the slightest “offence” to their worldview.
There are strong anti-German currents in American culture and politics, going back to at
least WW1 and also manifest today (no other treaty ally is treated with such dismissive
hostility by the Trump administration as Germany). But they are regarded as completely normal
and rarely get critical attention, whereas German anti-Americanism is treated as a pathology or
some kind of sacrilege…the German-American relationship (calling it
“friendship” is a lie) is profoundly asymmetrical.
Agreed in both counts. The casual anti-white racism thrown about by the likes of such people
(let’s not forget Davids Medienkritik, Little Green Footballs, Grouchy Old Cripple and
Dissident Frogman) is a lot scarier than any jumpscare I’ve encountered. And in the case of
German_reader’s comment, It’d be interesting to consider how Trump reconciles his
hostility towards Germany with his own German heritage.
At one point in the Iraq War, the German news outlet Der Spiegel had readers rate their
opinion of president Bush on their website on a scale of 1 (most favorable) to, if I recall
correctly, 6 (least favorable). After seeing public opinion of Bush in Germany overwhelmingly
“least favorable”, users of FreeRepublic went to this poll and attempted to
gerrymander the results by selecting “most favorable”, deleting their site cookies,
and repeating so as to make it look like more people in Germany supported Bush than opposed. This
was called “freeping”.
KIEV, May 20 (Xinhua) -- New
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced in his inaugural speech on Monday the
dissolution of the Ukrainian parliament, paving the way for early parliamentary elections.
The snap elections will be held in two months, according to a statement on the presidential
website. However, the official decree on the dissolution of the parliament has not yet been
unveiled.
The leader of the "Samopomich" parliamentary faction Oleg Berezyuk told the local media that
consultations on the parliament's dissolution will be held on Tuesday.
Zelensky, 41, was elected with over 73 percent of the vote as president of Ukraine on April
21 for a five-year term.
The next parliamentary elections had been originally set for Oct. 27.
It is all really simple: if the Ukrainians will give passports to Russian citizens, and
we in Russia will be handing out passports to the Ukrainians, then sooner or later will will
reach the expected result: everybody will have the same citizenship. This is something which
we have to welcome.
Vladimir Putin
It appears that the Kremlin is very slowly changing its approach to the Ukrainian issue and
is now relying more on unilateral actions. The first two measures taken by the Russians are
maybe not "too little too late", but certainly "just the bare minimum and at that, rather
late". Still, I can only salute the Kremlin's newly found determination. Specifically, the
Kremlin has banned the export of energy products to the Ukraine (special exemptions can still
be granted on a case by case basis) and the Russians have decided to distribute Russian
passports to the people of Novorussia. Good.
Zelenskii's reaction to this decision came as the first clear sign that the poor man has no
idea what he is doing and no plan as to how to deal with the Russians. He decided to crack a
joke, (which he is reportedly good at), and declare that the Ukrainian passport was much better
than the Russian one and that the Ukraine will start delivering Ukrainian passports to Russian
citizens. Putin immediately replied with one of his typical comebacks declaring that he
supports Zelenskii and that he looks forward to the day when Russians and Ukrainians will have
the same citizenship again. Zelenskii had nothing to say to that :-)
Zelenskii finally finds something common to Russia and the Ukraine
I have been thinking long about this "a lot in common" between Ukraine and Russia. The
reality is that today, after the annexation of the Crimea and the aggression in the Donbas,
of the "common" things we have only one thing left – this is the state border. And
control of every inch on the Ukrainian side, must be returned by Russia. Only then will we be
able to continue the search for [things in] "common"
Vladimir Zelenskii
Well, almost. He did eventually make a Facebook post in which he declared that all that
Russia and the Ukraine had in common was a border. This instantly made him the object of jokes
and memes, since all Russians or Ukrainians know that Russia and the Ukraine have many old
bonds which even 5 years of a vicious civil war and 5 years of hysterically anti-Russian
propaganda could not sever. They range from having close relatives in the other country, to
numerous trade and commercial transactions, to a common language. The closest thing to a real
Ukrainian language would be the Surzhik which is roughly 50/50 in terms of vocabulary and whose
pronunciation is closer to the south Russian one than to the Zapadenskii regional dialect
spoken in the western Ukraine and which is used (and currently imposed) by the Ukronazi junta
in Kiev.
"... In an interview this month, Chalupa told Politico she had developed a network of sources in Kiev and Washington, including investigative journalists, government officials and private intelligence operatives. While her consulting work at the DNC this past election cycle centered on mobilizing ethnic communities -- including Ukrainian-Americans -- she said that, when Trump's unlikely presidential campaign began surging in late 2015, she began focusing more on the research, and expanded it to include Trump's ties to Russia, as well. ..."
"... Both Shulyar and Chalupa said the purpose of their initial meeting was to organize a June reception at the embassy to promote Ukraine. According to the embassy's website, the event highlighted female Ukrainian leaders, featuring speeches by Ukrainian parliamentarian Hanna Hopko, who discussed "Ukraine's fight against the Russian aggression in Donbas," and longtime Hillary Clinton confidante Melanne Verveer, who worked for Clinton in the State Department and was a vocal surrogate during the presidential campaign. ..."
"... Almost as quickly as Chalupa's efforts attracted the attention of the Ukrainian Embassy and Democrats, she also found herself the subject of some unwanted attention from overseas. ..."
"... Chalupa, though, indicated in an email that was later hacked and released by WikiLeaks that the Open World Leadership Center "put me on the program to speak specifically about Paul Manafort." ..."
"... In the email, which was sent in early May to then-DNC communications director Luis Miranda, Chalupa noted that she had extended an invitation to the Library of Congress forum to veteran Washington investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Two days before the event, he had published a story for Yahoo News revealing the unraveling of a $26 million deal between Manafort and a Russian oligarch related to a telecommunications venture in Ukraine. And Chalupa wrote in the email she'd been "working with for the past few weeks" with Isikoff "and connected him to the Ukrainians" at the event. ..."
"... A DNC official stressed that Chalupa was a consultant paid to do outreach for the party's political department, not a researcher. She undertook her investigations into Trump, Manafort and Russia on her own, and the party did not incorporate her findings in its dossiers on the subjects, the official said, stressing that the DNC had been building robust research books on Trump and his ties to Russia long before Chalupa began sounding alarms. ..."
"... Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a Ukrainian former diplomat who served as the country's head of security under Poroshenko but is now affiliated with a leading opponent of Poroshenko, said it was fishy that "only one part of the black ledger appeared." He asked, "Where is the handwriting analysis?" and said it was "crazy" to announce an investigation based on the ledgers. He met last month in Washington with Trump allies, and said, "of course they all recognize that our [anti-corruption bureau] intervened in the presidential campaign." ..."
"... Ukraine's minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, piled on, trashing Trump on Twitter in July as a "clown" and asserting that Trump is "an even bigger danger to the US than terrorism." ..."
"... Avakov, in a Facebook post, lashed out at Trump for his confusing Crimea comments, calling the assessment the "diagnosis of a dangerous misfit," according to a translated screenshot featured in one media report, though he later deleted the post. He called Trump "dangerous for Ukraine and the US" and noted that Manafort worked with Yanukovych when the former Ukrainian leader "fled to Russia through Crimea. Where would Manafort lead Trump?" ..."
Manafort's work for Yanukovych caught the attention of a veteran Democratic operative named Alexandra Chalupa, who had worked
in the White House Office of Public Liaison during the Clinton administration. Chalupa went on to work as a staffer, then as a consultant,
for Democratic National Committee. The DNC paid her $412,000 from 2004 to June 2016, according to Federal Election Commission records,
though she also was paid by other clients during that time, including Democratic campaigns and the DNC's arm for engaging expatriate
Democrats around the world.
A daughter of Ukrainian immigrants who maintains strong ties to the Ukrainian-American diaspora and the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine,
Chalupa, a lawyer by training, in 2014 was doing pro bono work for another client interested in the Ukrainian crisis and began researching
Manafort's role in Yanukovych's rise, as well as his ties to the pro-Russian oligarchs who funded Yanukovych's political party.
In an interview this month, Chalupa told Politico she had developed a network of sources in Kiev and Washington, including investigative
journalists, government officials and private intelligence operatives. While her consulting work at the DNC this past election cycle
centered on mobilizing ethnic communities -- including Ukrainian-Americans -- she said that, when Trump's unlikely presidential campaign
began surging in late 2015, she began focusing more on the research, and expanded it to include Trump's ties to Russia, as well.
She occasionally shared her findings with officials from the DNC and Clinton's campaign, Chalupa said. In January 2016 -- months
before Manafort had taken any role in Trump's campaign -- Chalupa told a senior DNC official that, when it came to Trump's campaign,
"I felt there was a Russia connection," Chalupa recalled. "And that, if there was, that we can expect Paul Manafort to be involved
in this election," said Chalupa, who at the time also was warning leaders in the Ukrainian-American community that Manafort was "Putin's
political brain for manipulating U.S. foreign policy and elections."
he said she shared her concern with Ukraine's ambassador to the U.S., Valeriy Chaly, and one of his top aides, Oksana Shulyar,
during a March 2016 meeting at the Ukrainian Embassy. According to someone briefed on the meeting, Chaly said that Manafort was very
much on his radar, but that he wasn't particularly concerned about the operative's ties to Trump since he didn't believe Trump stood
much of a chance of winning the GOP nomination, let alone the presidency.
That was not an uncommon view at the time, and, perhaps as a result, Trump's ties to Russia -- let alone Manafort's -- were not
the subject of much attention.
That all started to change just four days after Chalupa's meeting at the embassy, when it was reported that Trump had in fact hired
Manafort, suggesting that Chalupa may have been on to something. She quickly found herself in high demand. The day after Manafort's
hiring was revealed, she briefed the DNC's communications staff on Manafort, Trump and their ties to Russia, according to an operative
familiar with the situation.
A former DNC staffer described the exchange as an "informal conversation," saying "'briefing' makes it sound way too formal,"
and adding, "We were not directing or driving her work on this." Yet, the former DNC staffer and the operative familiar with the
situation agreed that with the DNC's encouragement, Chalupa asked embassy staff to try to arrange an interview in which Poroshenko
might discuss Manafort's ties to Yanukovych.
While the embassy declined that request, officials there became "helpful" in Chalupa's efforts, she said, explaining that she
traded information and leads with them. "If I asked a question, they would provide guidance, or if there was someone I needed to
follow up with." But she stressed, "There were no documents given, nothing like that."
Chalupa said the embassy also worked directly with reporters researching Trump, Manafort and Russia to point them in the right
directions. She added, though, "they were being very protective and not speaking to the press as much as they should have. I think
they were being careful because their situation was that they had to be very, very careful because they could not pick sides. It's
a political issue, and they didn't want to get involved politically because they couldn't."
Shulyar vehemently denied working with reporters or with Chalupa on anything related to Trump or Manafort, explaining "we were
stormed by many reporters to comment on this subject, but our clear and adamant position was not to give any comment [and] not to
interfere into the campaign affairs."
Both Shulyar and Chalupa said the purpose of their initial meeting was to organize a June reception at the embassy to promote
Ukraine. According to the embassy's website, the event highlighted female Ukrainian leaders, featuring speeches by Ukrainian parliamentarian
Hanna Hopko, who discussed "Ukraine's fight against the Russian aggression in Donbas," and longtime Hillary Clinton confidante Melanne
Verveer, who worked for Clinton in the State Department and was a vocal surrogate during the presidential campaign.
Shulyar said her work with Chalupa "didn't involve the campaign," and she specifically stressed that "We have never worked to
research and disseminate damaging information about Donald Trump and Paul Manafort."
But Andrii Telizhenko, who worked as a political officer in the Ukrainian Embassy under Shulyar, said she instructed him to help
Chalupa research connections between Trump, Manafort and Russia. "Oksana said that if I had any information, or knew other people
who did, then I should contact Chalupa," recalled Telizhenko, who is now a political consultant in Kiev. "They were coordinating
an investigation with the Hillary team on Paul Manafort with Alexandra Chalupa," he said, adding "Oksana was keeping it all quiet,"
but "the embassy worked very closely with" Chalupa.
In fact, sources familiar with the effort say that Shulyar specifically called Telizhenko into a meeting with Chalupa to provide
an update on an American media outlet's ongoing investigation into Manafort.
Telizhenko recalled that Chalupa told him and Shulyar that, "If we can get enough information on Paul [Manafort] or Trump's involvement
with Russia, she can get a hearing in Congress by September."
Chalupa confirmed that, a week after Manafort's hiring was announced, she discussed the possibility of a congressional investigation
with a foreign policy legislative assistant in the office of Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio), who co-chairs the Congressional Ukrainian
Caucus. But, Chalupa said, "It didn't go anywhere."
Asked about the effort, the Kaptur legislative assistant called it a "touchy subject" in an internal email to colleagues that
was accidentally forwarded to Politico.
Kaptur's office later emailed an official statement explaining that the lawmaker is backing a bill to create an independent commission
to investigate "possible outside interference in our elections." The office added "at this time, the evidence related to this matter
points to Russia, but Congresswoman Kaptur is concerned with any evidence of foreign entities interfering in our elections."
•••
Almost as quickly as Chalupa's efforts attracted the attention of the Ukrainian Embassy and Democrats, she also found herself
the subject of some unwanted attention from overseas.
Within a few weeks of her initial meeting at the embassy with Shulyar and Chaly, Chalupa on April 20 received the first of what
became a series of messages from the administrators of her private Yahoo email account, warning her that "state-sponsored actors"
were trying to hack into her emails.
She kept up her crusade, appearing on a panel a week after the initial hacking message to discuss her research on Manafort with
a group of Ukrainian investigative journalists gathered at the Library of Congress for a program sponsored by a U.S. congressional
agency called the Open World Leadership Center.
Center spokeswoman Maura Shelden stressed that her group is nonpartisan and ensures "that our delegations hear from both sides
of the aisle, receiving bipartisan information." She said the Ukrainian journalists in subsequent days met with Republican officials
in North Carolina and elsewhere. And she said that, before the Library of Congress event, "Open World's program manager for Ukraine
did contact Chalupa to advise her that Open World is a nonpartisan agency of the Congress."
Chalupa, though, indicated in an email that was later hacked and released by WikiLeaks that the Open World Leadership Center
"put me on the program to speak specifically about Paul Manafort."
In the email, which was sent in early May to then-DNC communications director Luis Miranda, Chalupa noted that she had extended
an invitation to the Library of Congress forum to veteran Washington investigative reporter Michael Isikoff. Two days before the
event, he had published a story for Yahoo News revealing the unraveling of a $26 million deal between Manafort and a Russian oligarch
related to a telecommunications venture in Ukraine. And Chalupa wrote in the email she'd been "working with for the past few weeks"
with Isikoff "and connected him to the Ukrainians" at the event.
Isikoff, who accompanied Chalupa to a reception at the Ukrainian Embassy immediately after the Library of Congress event, declined
to comment.
Chalupa further indicated in her hacked May email to the DNC that she had additional sensitive information about Manafort that
she intended to share "offline" with Miranda and DNC research director Lauren Dillon, including "a big Trump component you and Lauren
need to be aware of that will hit in next few weeks and something I'm working on you should be aware of." Explaining that she didn't
feel comfortable sharing the intel over email, Chalupa attached a screenshot of a warning from Yahoo administrators about "state-sponsored"
hacking on her account, explaining, "Since I started digging into Manafort these messages have been a daily occurrence on my yahoo
account despite changing my password often."
Dillon and Miranda declined to comment.
A DNC official stressed that Chalupa was a consultant paid to do outreach for the party's political department, not a researcher.
She undertook her investigations into Trump, Manafort and Russia on her own, and the party did not incorporate her findings in its
dossiers on the subjects, the official said, stressing that the DNC had been building robust research books on Trump and his ties
to Russia long before Chalupa began sounding alarms.
Nonetheless, Chalupa's hacked email reportedly escalated concerns among top party officials, hardening their conclusion that Russia
likely was behind the cyber intrusions with which the party was only then beginning to grapple.
Chalupa left the DNC after the Democratic convention in late July to focus fulltime on her research into Manafort, Trump and Russia
. She said she provided off-the-record information and guidance to "a lot of journalists" working on stories related to Manafort
and Trump's Russia connections, despite what she described as escalating harassment.
... ... ...
•••
While it's not uncommon for outside operatives to serve as intermediaries between governments and reporters, one of the more damaging
Russia-related stories for the Trump campaign -- and certainly for Manafort -- can be traced more directly to the Ukrainian government.
Documents released by an independent Ukrainian government agency -- and publicized by a parliamentarian -- appeared to show $12.7
million in cash payments that were earmarked for Manafort by the Russia-aligned party of the deposed former president, Yanukovych.
The New York Times, in the August story revealing the ledgers' existence, reported that the payments earmarked for Manafort were
"a focus" of an investigation by Ukrainian anti-corruption officials, while CNN reported days later that the FBI was pursuing an
overlapping inquiry.
Clinton's campaign seized on the story to advance Democrats' argument that Trump's campaign was closely linked to Russia. The
ledger represented "more troubling connections between Donald Trump's team and pro-Kremlin elements in Ukraine," Robby Mook, Clinton's
campaign manager, said in a statement. He demanded that Trump "disclose campaign chair Paul Manafort's and all other campaign employees'
and advisers' ties to Russian or pro-Kremlin entities, including whether any of Trump's employees or advisers are currently representing
and or being paid by them."
A former Ukrainian investigative journalist and current parliamentarian named Serhiy Leshchenko, who was elected in 2014 as part
of Poroshenko's party, held a news conference to highlight the ledgers, and to urge Ukrainian and American law enforcement to aggressively
investigate Manafort.
"I believe and understand the basis of these payments are totally against the law -- we have the proof from these books," Leshchenko
said during the news conference, which attracted international media coverage. "If Mr. Manafort denies any allegations, I think he
has to be interrogated into this case and prove his position that he was not involved in any misconduct on the territory of Ukraine,"
Leshchenko added.
Manafort
denied receiving any off-books cash from Yanukovych's Party of Regions, and said that he had never been contacted about the ledger
by Ukrainian or American investigators, later telling POLITICO "I was just caught in the crossfire."
According to a
series of memos reportedly compiled for Trump's opponents by a former British intelligence agent, Yanukovych, in a secret meeting
with Putin on the day after the Times published its report, admitted that he had authorized "substantial kickback payments
to Manafort." But according to the report, which was
published Tuesday
by BuzzFeed but remains unverified. Yanukovych assured Putin "that there was no documentary trail left behind which could provide
clear evidence of this" -- an alleged statement that seemed to implicitly question the authenticity of the ledger.
The scrutiny around the ledgers -- combined with that from
other stories about his
Ukraine
work -- proved too much, and he
stepped down from the
Trump campaign less than a week after the Times story.
At the time, Leshchenko suggested that his motivation was partly to undermine Trump. "For me, it was important to show not only
the corruption aspect, but that he is [a] pro-Russian candidate who can break the geopolitical balance in the world," Leshchenko
told the Financial Times about two weeks after his news conference. The newspaper noted that Trump's candidacy had spurred "Kiev's
wider political leadership to do something they would never have attempted before: intervene, however indirectly, in a U.S. election,"
and the story quoted Leshchenko asserting that the majority of Ukraine's politicians are "on Hillary Clinton's side."
But by this month, Leshchenko was seeking to recast his motivation, telling Politico, "I didn't care who won the U.S. elections.
This was a decision for the American voters to decide." His goal in highlighting the ledgers, he said was "to raise these issues
on a political level and emphasize the importance of the investigation."
In a series of answers provided to Politico, a spokesman for Poroshenko distanced his administration from both Leshchenko's efforts
and those of the agency that reLeshchenko Leshchenko leased the ledgers, The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine. It was created
in 2014 as a condition for Ukraine to receive aid from the U.S. and the European Union, and it signed an evidence-sharing agreement
with the FBI in late June -- less than a month and a half before it released the ledgers.
The bureau is "fully independent," the Poroshenko spokesman said, adding that when it came to the presidential administration
there was "no targeted action against Manafort." He added "as to Serhiy Leshchenko, he positions himself as a representative of internal
opposition in the Bloc of Petro Poroshenko's faction, despite [the fact that] he belongs to the faction," the spokesman said, adding,
"it was about him personally who pushed [the anti-corruption bureau] to proceed with investigation on Manafort."
But an operative who has worked extensively in Ukraine, including as an adviser to Poroshenko, said it was highly unlikely that
either Leshchenko or the anti-corruption bureau would have pushed the issue without at least tacit approval from Poroshenko or his
closest allies.
"It was something that Poroshenko was probably aware of and could have stopped if he wanted to," said the operative.
And, almost immediately after Trump's stunning victory over Clinton, questions began mounting about the investigations into the
ledgers -- and the ledgers themselves.
An official with the anti-corruption bureau told a Ukrainian newspaper, "Mr. Manafort does not have a role in this case."
And, while the anti-corruption bureau told Politico late last month that a "general investigation [is] still ongoing" of the ledger,
it said Manafort is not a target of the investigation. "As he is not the Ukrainian citizen, [the anti-corruption bureau] by the law
couldn't investigate him personally," the bureau said in a statement.
Some Poroshenko critics have gone further, suggesting that the bureau is backing away from investigating because the ledgers might
have been doctored or even forged.
Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, a Ukrainian former diplomat who served as the country's head of security under Poroshenko but is now affiliated
with a leading opponent of Poroshenko, said it was fishy that "only one part of the black ledger appeared." He asked, "Where is the
handwriting analysis?" and said it was "crazy" to announce an investigation based on the ledgers. He met last month in Washington
with Trump allies, and said, "of course they all recognize that our [anti-corruption bureau] intervened in the presidential campaign."
And in an interview this week, Manafort, who re-emerged as an informal advisor to Trump after Election Day, suggested that the
ledgers were inauthentic and called their publication "a politically motivated false attack on me. My role as a paid consultant was
public. There was nothing off the books, but the way that this was presented tried to make it look shady."
He added that he felt particularly wronged by efforts to cast his work in Ukraine as pro-Russian, arguing "all my efforts were
focused on helping Ukraine move into Europe and the West." He specifically cited his work on denuclearizing the country and on the
European Union trade and political pact that Yanukovych spurned before fleeing to Russia. "In no case was I ever involved in anything
that would be contrary to U.S. interests," Manafort said.
Yet Russia seemed to come to the defense of Manafort and Trump last month, when a spokeswoman for Russia's Foreign Ministry charged
that the Ukrainian government used the ledgers as a political weapon.
"Ukraine seriously complicated the work of Trump's election campaign headquarters by planting information according to which Paul
Manafort, Trump's campaign chairman, allegedly accepted money from Ukrainian oligarchs," Maria Zakharova said at a news briefing,
according to a transcript of her remarks posted on the Foreign Ministry's website. "All of you have heard this remarkable story,"
she told assembled reporters.
•••
Beyond any efforts to sabotage Trump, Ukrainian officials didn't exactly extend a hand of friendship to the GOP nominee during
the campaign.
The ambassador, Chaly, penned an op-ed for The Hill, in which he chastised Trump for a confusing series of statements in which
the GOP candidate at one point expressed a willingness to consider recognizing Russia's annexation of the Ukrainian territory of
Crimea as legitimate. The op-ed made some in the embassy uneasy, sources said.
"That was like too close for comfort, even for them," said Chalupa. "That was something that was as risky as they were going to
be."
Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk warned on Facebook that Trump had "challenged the very values of the free world."
Ukraine's minister of internal affairs, Arsen Avakov, piled on, trashing Trump on Twitter in July as a "clown" and asserting that
Trump is "an even bigger danger to the US than terrorism."
Avakov, in a Facebook post, lashed out at Trump for his confusing Crimea comments, calling the assessment the "diagnosis of a
dangerous misfit," according to a translated screenshot featured in one media report, though he later deleted the post. He called
Trump "dangerous for Ukraine and the US" and noted that Manafort worked with Yanukovych when the former Ukrainian leader "fled to
Russia through Crimea. Where would Manafort lead Trump?"
The Trump-Ukraine relationship grew even more fraught in September with reports that the GOP nominee had snubbed Poroshenko on
the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York, where the Ukrainian president tried to meet both major party candidates,
but scored only a meeting with Clinton.
Telizhenko, the former embassy staffer, said that, during the primaries, Chaly, the country's ambassador in Washington, had actually
instructed the embassy not to reach out to Trump's campaign, even as it was engaging with those of Clinton and Trump's leading GOP
rival, Ted Cruz.
"We had an order not to talk to the Trump team, because he was critical of Ukraine and the government and his critical position
on Crimea and the conflict," said Telizhenko. "I was yelled at when I proposed to talk to Trump," he said, adding, "The ambassador
said not to get involved -- Hillary is going to win."
This account was confirmed by Nalyvaichenko, the former diplomat and security chief now affiliated with a Poroshenko opponent,
who said, "The Ukrainian authorities closed all doors and windows -- this is from the Ukrainian side." He called the strategy "bad
and short-sighted."
Andriy Artemenko, a Ukrainian parliamentarian associated with a conservative opposition party, did meet with Trump's team during
the campaign and said he personally offered to set up similar meetings for Chaly but was rebuffed.
"It was clear that they were supporting Hillary Clinton's candidacy," Artemenko said. "They did everything from organizing meetings
with the Clinton team, to publicly supporting her, to criticizing Trump. I think that they simply didn't meet because they thought
that Hillary would win."
Shulyar rejected the characterizations that the embassy had a ban on interacting with Trump, instead explaining that it "had different
diplomats assigned for dealing with different teams tailoring the content and messaging. So it was not an instruction to abstain
from the engagement but rather an internal discipline for diplomats not to get involved into a field she or he was not assigned to,
but where another colleague was involved."
And she pointed out that Chaly traveled to the GOP convention in Cleveland in late July and met with members of Trump's foreign
policy team "to highlight the importance of Ukraine and the support of it by the U.S."
Despite the outreach, Trump's campaign in Cleveland gutted a proposed amendment to the Republican Party platform that called for
the U.S. to provide "lethal defensive weapons" for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian incursion, backers of the measure charged.
The outreach ramped up after Trump's victory. Shulyar pointed out that Poroshenko was among the first foreign leaders to call
to congratulate Trump. And she said that, since Election Day, Chaly has met with close Trump allies, including Sens. Jeff Sessions,
Trump's nominee for attorney general, and Bob Corker, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, while the ambassador
accompanied Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze, Ukraine's vice prime minister for European and Euro-Atlantic integration, to a round of Washington
meetings with Rep. Tom Marino (R-Pa.), an early Trump backer, and Jim DeMint, president of The Heritage Foundation, which played
a prominent role in Trump's transition.
•••
Many Ukrainian officials and operatives and their American allies see Trump's inauguration this month as an existential threat
to the country, made worse, they admit, by the dissemination of the secret ledger, the antagonistic social media posts and the perception
that the embassy meddled against -- or at least shut out -- Trump.
"It's really bad. The [Poroshenko] administration right now is trying to re-coordinate communications," said Telizhenko, adding,
"The Trump organization doesn't want to talk to our administration at all."
During Nalyvaichenko's trip to Washington last month, he detected lingering ill will toward Ukraine from some, and lack of
interest from others, he recalled. "Ukraine is not on the top of the list, not even the middle," he said.
Poroshenko's allies are scrambling to figure out how to build a relationship with Trump, who is known for harboring and prosecuting
grudges for years.
A delegation of Ukrainian parliamentarians allied with Poroshenko last month traveled to Washington partly to try to make inroads
with the Trump transition team, but they were unable to secure a meeting, according to a Washington foreign policy operative familiar
with the trip. And operatives in Washington and Kiev say that after the election, Poroshenko met in Kiev with top executives from
the Washington lobbying firm BGR -- including Ed Rogers and Lester Munson -- about how to navigate the Trump regime.
Weeks later, BGR reported to the Department of Justice that the government of Ukraine would pay the firm $50,000 a month to "provide
strategic public relations and government affairs counsel," including "outreach to U.S. government officials, non-government organizations,
members of the media and other individuals."
Firm spokesman Jeffrey Birnbaum suggested that "pro-Putin oligarchs" were already trying to sow doubts about BGR's work with Poroshenko.
While the firm maintains close relationships with GOP congressional leaders, several of its principals were dismissive or sharply
critical of Trump during the GOP primary, which could limit their effectiveness lobbying the new administration.
The Poroshenko regime's standing with Trump is considered so dire that the president's allies after the election actually reached
out to make amends with -- and even seek assistance from -- Manafort, according to two operatives familiar with Ukraine's efforts
to make inroads with Trump.
Meanwhile, Poroshenko's rivals are seeking to capitalize on his dicey relationship with Trump's team. Some are pressuring him
to replace Chaly, a close ally of Poroshenko's who is being blamed by critics in Kiev and Washington for implementing -- if not engineering
-- the country's anti-Trump efforts, according to Ukrainian and U.S. politicians and operatives interviewed for this story. They
say that several potential Poroshenko opponents have been through Washington since the election seeking audiences of their own with
Trump allies, though most have failed to do do so.
"None of the Ukrainians have any access to Trump -- they are all desperate to get it, and are willing to pay big for it," said
one American consultant whose company recently met in Washington with Yuriy Boyko, a former vice prime minister under Yanukovych.
Boyko, who like Yanukovych has a pro-Russian worldview, is considering a presidential campaign of his own, and his representatives
offered "to pay a shit-ton of money" to get access to Trump and his inaugural events, according to the consultant.
The consultant turned down the work, explaining, "It sounded shady, and we don't want to get in the middle of that kind of stuff."
A clown beat a high profile member of the established political class, due most likely to the
voters being disgusted by said political class? Uhmm, where have we seen this before?
PRESIDENT: This is incredible! I never ordered such a thing!
SOVIET AMBASSADOR (scornfully): Our [intelligence] source was the New York Times.
-- "Dr. Strangelove"
REALITY:
US President Donald Trump is still unsure whether to meet with Vladimir Putin, pending a
'full report' about the Kerch Strait incident that by pure coincidence happened just days
before the upcoming G20 summit in Argentina.
Ukraine's State Bureau of Investigation (SBI) has opened criminal proceedings regarding the possible
organization by former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko of illegal crossing through the border with the use of fake
documents, the SBI has reported on its Facebook page.
"SBI investigators will check reports on former President Petro Poroshenko organizing illegal crossing through the state
border of Ukraine with the use of deliberately forged documents," the report reads.
In particular, the report specifies that it will be established during the investigation whether officials of the customs and
border authorities included deliberately false information in official documents in order to ensure border crossing.
Former Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Andriy Portnov reported earlier that according to his statement, the SBI
opened a criminal case to check possible violations of border crossing "by persons close to Poroshenko in 2018 under other
people's passports to the Maldives archipelago."
The Last but not LeastTechnology is dominated by
two types of people: those who understand what they do not manage and those who manage what they do not understand ~Archibald Putt.
Ph.D
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