JOHN KIRIAKOU: How a Suicide Watch Really Works August 14, 2019 •
95 Comments
If Jeffrey Epstein's death turns out to have been self-inflicted, it would represent a
complete breakdown in the system that was supposed to protect him.
By John
Kiriakou
Special to Consortium News
A cottage industry has been spawned over the past week for the chattering classes on every
network to comment on the apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, the millionaire financier
charged with sex-trafficking of underage girls.
The talking heads have also babbled on about the inner workings of federal prisons. Nearly
every word I've heard is either factually incorrect, out of context, or fantastical. I
spent 23 months in a federal penitentiary and served on suicide watch over a fellow inmate.
So I can set the record straight about how suicide watches work in federal prisons, and about
the conditions that led Epstein, apparently , to take his own life. If Epstein's death
turns out to have been an actual suicide, it would be the result of a complete breakdown in the
system that was supposed to protect him.
First, suicide watch in the federal prison system is a big deal. When a prisoner is
suicidal, or has attempted suicide, he is placed in a designated "suicide watch room." It is a
physical room in the medical unit where one wall is a window. The prisoner is stripped naked
and given a paper smock to wear. There are no sheets or pillowcases on the bed. So the prisoner
doesn't harm himself, there is nothing else inside the room other than a sink and a toilet.
Outside that window wall, a rotating shift of prisoner volunteers sits 24 hours a day to watch
the prisoner to make sure he doesn't attempt suicide again. There are also video cameras inside
the room to ensure the prisoner does not try to harm himself. Uniformed guards check on the
prisoner every 30 minutes, and a nurse, physician's assistant, or psychologist visits the
prisoner at least once a day.
NYC prison where Jeffrey Epstein was found dead.
(Jim Henderson, CC0, Wikimedia Commons)
When the prisoner is released from suicide watch, which usually takes a week or two, one of
two things happen: Either the prisoner is returned to his cell, where he normally has between
one and five cellmates, or he is sent to solitary confinement, where he can be watched more
closely than he could be watched in the general population. In most prisons, solitary
confinement is not at all solitary. Solitary confinement is usually grossly overcrowded with
two or even three prisoners in each cell built for one. One prisoner is in a bunk and the other
one or two sleep on mats on the floor. Depending on the prison, guards patrol the unit every 15
or 30 minutes to make sure than nothing untoward is taking place. And don't forget that there
are security cameras that cover literally every inch of a prison every minute of every day. At
least, there are supposed to be.
Many Mistakes
So how did Epstein kill himself, if that's what happened? Every safeguard at every turn had
to fail. First, we know that Epstein was not on suicide watch. He had been removed,
despite the fact that he had only recently attempted suicide. That was a mistake.
We know also that Epstein was returned to a two-man cell and that his cellmate had been
transferred to another prison, leaving him alone there. That was a mistake.
We know that two of the three guards who were responsible for watching Epstein were not
trained corrections officers. The prison was short staffed -- most are -- and two of the three
guards were actually supposed to be assigned elsewhere in the prison. (Secretaries, nurses,
even the dentist and the chaplain sometimes pitch in when there aren't enough guards.) That was
a mistake.
Two of the three guards also were exhausted. One had worked overtime five days in a row and
another was working mandatory overtime. That was a mistake. The guards were supposed to make
rounds every 30 minutes to make sure that everything was in order and no prisoners were in
danger. They didn't do that. That was yet another mistake.
Mug shot of Jeffrey Epstein taken in 2006 following his indictment for soliciting
prostitution from underage girls. (Wikimedia Commons)
None of these observations answers the question of whether Epstein actually committed
suicide. It appears that he did. But, let's not forget that in any prison in America, sex
offenders -- and especially those who sexually assault children -- are the lowest of the low.
Their lives are always in danger. I can tell you a hundred stories of assaults on pedophiles
that I observed from my time at the Federal Correctional Institution at Loretto,
Pennsylvania.
One of the reasons that almost all pedophiles are kept in low-security prisons is that
they're so much more likely to be assaulted or even murdered in higher-security facilities and
they're not eligible to be placed in minimum-security work camps because of the gravity of
their crimes. The Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan, however, where Epstein was
awaiting trial, is a maximum-security facility because it's a transportation center. Almost
every prisoner there is awaiting trial and will eventually be sent somewhere else. Epstein was
likely a marked man from the minute he walked through the door.
I don't know if Epstein committed suicide. When we have to choose between incompetence and
conspiracy, I usually go with incompetence, though there are many powerful people who were in
Epstein's circle who would not have wanted
facts to emerge at his trial. One cannot rule out that all these mistakes made could have
been intentional to create the conditions for him to attempt suicide again -- this time
successfully.
One of my attorneys gave me some advice before I left for prison. "Don't make anybody
angry," he said. "Most prisoners are attached to one gang or another -- the Italians, the
Aryans, the Crips and the Bloods, MS-13, the Mexican drug gangs. Every one of them has a long
arm and they can reach into any prison in the country."
John Kiriakou is a former CIA counterterrorism officer and a former senior investigator with
the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. John became the sixth whistleblower indicted by the
Obama administration under the Espionage Act -- a law designed to punish spies. He served 23
months in prison as a result of his attempts to oppose the Bush administration's torture
program.
Abby , August 16, 2019 at 00:29
Even if the camera outside Epstein's cell wasn't working there would be plenty more in the
prison as John mentioned that would have caught anyone who wasn't supposed to be in the area.
This is what I'd like Barr to address. And I've read that Barr visited Epstein not long
before he died. What happened during this visit?
I believe that he was either killed or he was switched out of the prison.
Charles Peterson ,
August 15, 2019 at 13:43
A conspiracy involving an event such as this would be on the scale where multiple patsies
and alibis would be also part of the plan.
In the course of actual events, any one or a bunch might get compromised, so there have to
be others.
We see that already in the multiple causes of failure, every one in a long string of
safeguards having been somehow defeated, each seemingly independent of the others.
Eventually there may be personalities behind these failures. Personalities chosen because
the planners didn't like them.
The broad outline of appearances, that a suicide may have been enabled by outside
forces, is probably correct. Epstein had played his last hand to stay out of custody, and so
to all his clandestine associates he had become a liability, possibly existential.
He didn't want to face his accusers either, and knew he'd be hunted perpetually from
that point if not before. His life was over. Death is a sweet dream compared to life in
prison for a sex criminal and probably more.
It wasn't just Epstein's money that enabled his circus and protected him. He had
enablers and clients, and that was where his previous untouchability came from – they
didn't want to be exposed either.
Though, he also did have enough money to help pave his own suicide enablement, and his
enablers would be fine with that also.
Jill , August 15, 2019 at 13:04
So the latest is that maybe he suicided or maybe he was a victim of assisted suicide. They
can't tell for sure because it can look like assisted suicide when and older person has their
hyoid bone broken during hanging. Prisons and jails are full of cameras. (MCC is called NY's
Gitmo).
It is very easy to anonymize the footage of the hallway and surrounding environment with
today's technology to protect people's privacy. Where is that footage? Screams were reported.
If so, unless it's the Pentagon on 9/11 and all the cameras were turned off, then there will
be a pick up of screams and any other unusual events at MCC. Even if no video shows exactly
what happened in that cell, the cameras should pick up sound. That footage should be
available.
There is paperwork. Let's see it.
Finally, it is quite clear that Maxwell took part in the rape, as well as the procurement
of children. Where is her arrest warrant?
Robert Emmett , August 15, 2019 at 11:38
This story has eaten away my resistance to it. Especially after reading Whitney Webb's
incredibly detailed account of how far back this shit is connected (at Mint Press). And so
does this incident, now, at the jail, not seem to be deliberately splashed in our faces? Yet,
from a different vantage point, I see it as another layer of the veil removed so that more
people will see more clearly.
... ... ...
Dr. Weezil , August 15, 2019 at 09:59
"When we have to choose between incompetence and conspiracy, I usually go with
incompetence,"
"John Kiriakou is a former CIA counterterrorism officer and a former senior investigator
with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee."
https://www.coreysdigs.com/c-i-a-3-letter-agencies/cia-coined-weaponized-the-label-conspiracy-theory/
When we have to choose between what the CIA says and the truth, I usually go with the
truth.
Litchfield , August 15, 2019 at 14:21
The public is also expected to believe in an inconceivable series of FUBARs that underlie
the official 9/11 narrative. Of course hardly anyone believes the ridiculous story, which
relies on accepting that all of our multi-billion-dollar defense systems failed and that the
City of NY is incapable of ensuring a chain of evidence, except for the passport. However,
most have given up even speaking about it from emotional fatigue -- there is nothing be
gained by getting upset about it now. It is like a demented family member who cannot be cured
and so is locked away in an institution or the the attic. Just don't bring it up. Ditto,
Dallas 1963. Yet there is an unspoken and also spoken assumption that we have been lied to.
And that these lies have changed everything.
So, I would say that the incompetence defense is the last refuge of the knaves who are
running the US of A into the ground, and their presstitute stenographers.
Peedee , August 14, 2019 at 21:25
His death was extraordinarily convenient. We don't need the details to figure out that
something is amiss.
Tom Kath , August 14, 2019 at 20:41
The main crime of powerful people or agencies using surveillance and personal information
to "fiddle" with the minds, beliefs, and perspectives of an entire population, is being lost
in the smoke screen frenzy about the age of sexual consent.
The questions about whether the victims were really innocent, trusting, defenceless,
prepubescent, infants, or not, are very minor questions compared to how innocent, helpless,
and unaware the general population is.
We are not primarily dealing with SEX offences, but gross, vile, repugnant MANIPULATION of
adult minds.
nom de pleb , August 14, 2019 at 20:18
Just playing devil's advocate
Given the powerful players surrounding Epstein, it seems at least somewhat plausible that
the verification/autopsy could have been fabricated to provide the appearance of his
death.
Also, I know little of Epstein's brother so currently have no reason to believe he would
not have lied to facilitate Jeffery's discreet relocation.
Now I'm in no way implying here that he's not dead. Only that the principals involved have
the power to potentially stage his death, affect the participation of officials in the
cover-up, and relocate him. Especially true when intelligence agencies are involved.
Personally, I do not believe this line of reasoning is currently the most probable. But I
haven't seen any truly independent proof that rules it out completely. Maybe said proof
exists, but I haven't seen it yet.
If his handlers/co-conspirators had low confidence he would keep his mouth shut, they
probably suicided him. If the opposite (i.e., they were confident he was "their man"), then
they may have gone to the effort to relocate him. Either way (or a different way), they had
the means, motive, and opportunity.
Marko , August 14, 2019 at 17:48
Haha. Yeah , me too.
Jeffrey Epstein's shocking death occurred at an ultra-secure federal lock-up where suicide
is supposedly next to impossible .Suicide at the jail, which serves mainly as a holding
facility for about 765 men and women awaiting trial for federal crimes of all levels, is
rare. A review of published stories found only one such death in the past 21 years, the 1998
suicide of South Philadelphia drug kingpin Louis Turra, who reportedly hanged himself. A
handful of suicide attempts were also reported ."
https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impossible-at-ulta-secure-jeffrey-epstein-lockup/
Move along folks. Nothing to see here.
JOHN
CHUCKMAN , August 14, 2019 at 09:46
John Kiriakou misses a few things here, and I would like to add new information which
gives perspective to the events.
After Epstein was transferred to a cell with another prisoner, that prisoner was
transferred out and not replaced. That seems rather odd behavior for a crowded and
under-staffed facility.
Plus, there is the fact that we're talking about an inmate recently taken off "suicide
watch," one who had a recent actual "attempt," and not just any inmate but an extremely
high-profile inmate, likely the most notorious prisoner in the country.
We know now that in the three hours before Epstein died, no checks on his cell were made,
even though they are supposed to be made every thirty minutes at that facility.
The guards that were to have done the checks are now said to have fallen asleep, and it is
claimed that afterward the log record was falsified to say they had indeed made the
checks.
The wife of an inmate in the same facility has told reporters that security there was
unbelievably strict. When she visited her husband, two guards and a senior officer were
required just for his transfer to the visitors' center.
There is still no meaningful explanation of why there is no video of the period, just the
flabby assertion that the system was out of order.
I tend somewhat to disagree with the author's assertion, "Epstein was likely a marked man
from the minute he walked through the door."
The author's basis for saying that is the classic idea that in prisons, sex offenders are
regarded as "the lowest of the low."
And that line is very much being taken by the mainline press. It just happens also to have
the publicity value of tarring the prisoner, rather than scrutinizing his treatment.
While I think it is absolutely true of the kind of person we usually think of when we read
the words, "sex offender," as, say, someone who sexually assaults a young child, I'm not at
all sure that it's necessarily true of someone like Epstein. Prisoners are, of course,
motivated by a sense that where they are forced to live cannot be regarded as a dumping
ground for "scum." There is a strict social hierarchy even in prisons.
Epstein did not regard himself as a "sex offender," at all. He would openly discuss the
matter with others, even members of the press, saying society was hypocritical, just as it
was in many places with homosexuality, and that his kind sexual activity, in earlier times,
was common in our society.
Of course, we do know that once it was common for a fourteen-year old girl to be married.
In Europe, a few centuries ago, girls of twelve were betrothed sometimes, and in royal
circles. And that is still common in many poor countries with girls as young as twelve being
married off by their families, as, for example, in parts of India. Neither did Epstein's
demi-monde family view him as a "sex offender," including a list of notable characters, such
as Robert Maxwell's daughter who acted as a Madam for the many young women.
Neither, pretty clearly, did his bevy of famous friends and visitors, including former
President Bill Clinton, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, former Sen George Mitchell
(I was sorry to learn), Alan Dershowitz, Woody Allen, the Saudi Crown Prince (who, like Bill
Clinton, made many trips), many Silicon Valley notables (including Bill Gates who flew on
"the Lolita Express" at least once), Britain's Prince Andrew (many visits), Gov Richardson of
New Mexico, (reportedly) former Prime Minister Tony Blair, and scores and scores of
others.
I'm sure he was regarded as shady and salacious and off-color, but as a "sex offender"?
With the sexual mores of our time? Explicit sex in advertising everywhere? Including images
of either very young women or young-looking women used to sell and promote almost anything?
Models and actresses and pop singers who starve themselves to appear very young and
slight?
I am not sure that inmates would regard a man such as Epstein so much as a "sex offender"
as a lucky man with the ladies, including very young ones. I don't mean to minimize his
offense of interfering in the lives of easily-manipulated young women, generally poor ones
attracted by the offer of big money and high times, but I'm not sure that with the general
public, and especially the shadier types in prison, things are quite so cut-and-dried. I just
don't know, but I think there is room for legitimate doubt.
As far as Ghislaine Maxell is concerned, she is quoted in a story in Vanity Fair magazine,
"When I asked what she thought of the underage girls, she looked at me and said, 'they're
nothing, these girls. They are trash.'" The same story says Ghislaine's method of recruiting
young women for Epstein was to drive around to spas and trailer parks in Florida, offering
them a job with good money. Obviously, she was quite successful. Ghislaine, herself, is said
to have kept rail-thin, so that she appealed to Epstein.
We've also just learned another extremely important fact from Ghislaine Maxwell, one
loaded with suggestion. Epstein's private island was wired for video, literally everywhere,
so that couples could not take off somewhere for a private get-together. If that doesn't
sound like an intelligence service's elaborate "honey trap," I don't know what does.
Hard to see why Epstein and Company would record literally everyone, unless they were
creating compromising material for potential blackmail or political pressure. Who would be
interested in videos of a number homely, older men making love to young women, other than a
blackmailer or a spy agency? But we have no evidence or even suggestion of blackmail. Many of
Epstein's big-shot friends remained his friends for many years, returning for visits again
and again.
But there are suggestions, in the way his case was handled by prosecutors for his
conviction in 2008 and the highly unorthodox sentencing he received, of some kind of powerful
outside influence at work. There's just no question about that. And, of course, his sentence
allowed a complete return to the same arrangements he had had in New York to just continue on
a private island, perhaps only adding a certain new sense of exotic adventure for
visitors.
I think there are many elements in the whole story suggesting Epstein's connection with an
intelligence agency, the most likely one being Mossad. I say that because "honey-traps" seem
to have been a favored technique of that agency. Even with what little we generally hear
about such secret matters, we've had some well-publicized cases involving them. Including,
famously, the entrapment of atomic weapons whistleblower, Mordechai Vanunu, and the work of
Tzipi Livni, a former Israeli Minister who is said to have worked earlier on entrapping men
who were to be assassinated. She was for some period wanted in Europe on war-crime
charges.
Readers ay enjoy these other observations:
https://chuckmanwordsincomments.wordpress.com/2019/08/13/john-chuckman-comment-some-new-observations-on-the-death-of-jeffrey-epstein-why-i-believe-it-impossible-for-him-to-have-killed-himself-what-this-death-vividly-demonstrates-about-america/
ML , August 14, 2019 at 15:46
Sorry John Chuckman, but a 14, 15, or 16 year old girl is not able to truly comprehend
this sordid world and is still certainly very much, a child in her thought processes. I
remember myself at that age. I had no clue about protecting myself very well because I
trusted most everyone. A friend of my father's tried to molest me while I was having a
sleep-over with his daughter who was my friend. I was able to get away, but my now adult self
looks back at that episode and thinks how lucky I was to be able to flee to safety. I was
horrified and scared to death. When you've just been through puberty a couple years before
the ages I just listed above, you are still very much a child. Your comments were distasteful
in that you make it seem as if you yourself do not feel Epstein was a "sex offender." He most
definitely was. Who was the "trash" here? Epstein and men who think like him, that's who.
AnneR , August 15, 2019 at 08:56
I would disagree that a girl (or boy) of 15-16 is "still certainly very much, a child in
her (his) thought processes." This *is* a purely – and latterly – American
cultural perception. Not even historically in the US would a 15-16 year old have been
perceived as a "child." Young yes, but *not* a child.
As someone who left school a couple of months after reaching 15 (fully legal back in 1963
in the UK; my father born 1913 had left school at age 14, the accepted norm for the working
classes back then) and starting my first full-time job (filing clerk). I was expected to hand
over to my mother every week most of my wages for my board and lodging. This was normal,
expected of us adolescent workers – throughout the working classes in the UK. One
learnt some valuable lessons in money management (always, after all, living but one week's
wage packet from poverty, homelessness).
That same year I started "dating" – no one monitored that. My life; my
decisions.
And as I wrote above: in the UK 16 years of age is the threshold age of sexual consent
(one can marry at that age – with parental consent; or, at least when I was younger,
you could cross the border into Scotland at Gretna Green and marry there without parental
consent and that marriage was legal).
The fact that now, perhaps particularly here in the USA, childhood has been redefined to
be practically indefinite and adulthood an ever-vanishing over the horizon to some
never-never land, does not mean that this perception is any more "right" than any other
culture's view of when a person can determine when they will have sexual encounters.
And there is something very screwy about (as I wrote above) 18 being the age of sexual
consent and presumed *electoral* maturity but to legally drink alcohol a person has to be 21
and over. (And this doesn't begin to raise the issue of the death penalty and age at which it
can meted out – and that leaving aside completely the whole moral and ethical issue of
capital punishment.)
Litchfield , August 15, 2019 at 10:12
I think there is a difference between a "sex offender" who has taken advantage of teenage
girls and an actual pedophile. I don't think Chuckman is excusing BE's actual crimes. He is
being precise in labeling the actual crimes. As with the Russiagate nonsense, it is not that
Trump has not committed any number of crimes. It is just that collusion with the Russians was
not one of them. Bringing false charges has not hurt Trump. It has just confused the
scene.
Labeling BE a pedophile when the evidence does not suggest that he actually had sex with
actual children (as is the case with genuine pedophiles such as many priests, etc.) muddies
the legal waters and provides fodder for misleading headlines that include and connect the
words "pedophile suicide." IMO neither one of those is correct and such headlines serve to
misdirect attention away from BE's actual crimes and very likely below-the-radar spying
activities.
ML , August 15, 2019 at 23:33
This is to AnneR- you've entirely missed the point. When an adult, be it a pedophile
priest or someone like Epstein and Maxwell, take complete advantage of someone young, someone
vulnerable, someone who is not fully adjusted yet to living in a thoroughly adult world, that
is consistent with being a sociopath, someone who has no empathy. Nothing wrong with that
perception, be it "American" or otherwise. If a priest is considered a "sex offender" for
molesting teen boys (and girls), then certainly Epstein is for taking such ruthless advantage
of teen girls. How would you react to someone young and beloved by you who is so treated by
an adult?
AnneR , August 14, 2019 at 09:12
Thank you for this overview, Mr Kiriakou. Rather like David Buckley, however, I would
question the attribution of "mistake" to the individual items on your list. It seems to me
– unschooled in the US legal system though I am (well, any such system actually,
although my handful of interactions with cops hasn't in any way raised my view of them above
subterranean level) – that Epstein as such a prominent and significant person in
custody would have been monitored far more closely than we have been informed he was.
There is the bizarre business surrounding his earlier, Florida, conviction and
"imprisonment," for pedophilia/sexual abuse. How many others with like convictions receive
such lenient sentences and "imprisonment"?
And there is the fact that he knew a lot about a lot of people (men) among the powerful,
ruling elites, including having their unsavory, abusive activities on tape (apparently).
Suicide is far too convenient.
Susan J Leslie , August 14, 2019 at 08:24
The system isn't designed to protect someone like Epstein – it is designed to
protect the powerful
uncle tungsten , August 14, 2019 at 06:27
I am MUCH more inclined to think he was murdered. Whitney Webb at Mintpressnews DOT com
has a breathtaking series on the Epstein assault on children. It is worth a read. Amazing
Polly on utube is also a great source to identify those that worked with Epstein and those in
the press that cover for his gang of demented beings.
bobzz , August 14, 2019 at 15:03
The website to which UT refers is:
https://www.mintpressnews.com/mega-group-maxwells-mossad-spy-story-jeffrey-epstein-scandal/261172/
. In the expose, Whitney links to the first two in the series and says she has a fourth
coming expose on the Epstien/Clinton connection in the works. And I agree with UT; the series
exposes an unfathomable degree of degradation among the rich and powerful. The links between
high government officials, CIA, FBI, and organized crime is astonishing.
Tim Jones , August 15, 2019 at 20:47
Because "The links between high government officials, CIA, FBI, and organized crime is
astonishing." we will never have an answer, just like John Kennedy, MLK, etc.
In the grand scheme of things, there is a compelling historical argument for the idea
that when the NSA/CIA was created, Dulles found an opportunity to consolidate control of
information and by logic, populations which was in reality, a velvet coup. The other aspect
this control and coup was NACA being taken over by Nazi Intel/strategists/scientists/war
planners through Paper Clip and other relations of the Dulles family were involved with this.
Dulles had not one patriotic bone in his body but only cared about elitism, and power. Yes,
he made patriotic statements but they were as thin as his skin.
Skip Scott , August 15, 2019 at 09:03
To murder Epstein, those he could implicate would need to be assured that he didn't have a
plan to release incriminating evidence on them in the case of his "untimely demise". I
suspect Epstein was smart enough to have a "dead man's switch". If he didn't, he is most
definitely DEAD. I am thinking that by this time he is in Israel with a new face and a new
name. The FBI just raided his island, most likely to be sure the incriminating evidence
remains in their hands to continue to be leveraged against Epstein's fellow powerful
perverts. The names change, but the game remains the same. They may sacrifice a few "lessers"
to satisfy the proles, but the "big ones" will continue to serve the empire, or else.
Tim Jones , August 14, 2019 at 05:54
Very clear article with regards to security protocols and suicide. So it comes down to
incompetence which is clearly shown by John, with the additional reality of Epstein 'being a
marked man' -- showing it's one or both that brought him down. If William Barr and the
prosecution wanted to protect him, because the case rested on him living, more resources
would have been devoted to his security. So, my bet is on the many people's influence, who
could not have him testify, won out. Funny thing how Epstein got a career break teaching at
Barr's institution so many years back
john wilson , August 14, 2019 at 04:55
I hold the certificate in criminology from London University and I can assure you all that
suicide watch is not for the protection of the prisoner. Preventing suicide in prison is for
the protection of the 'authorities' because large numbers of suicides would reflect badly on
the 'system' No one really cares whether a child molester of the stature of Epstein dies by
taking his own life or he is murdered. There is also the notion that a prisoner who commits
suicide cheats the hangman or a life in prison. Clearly, there were two reasons for not
wanting Epstein alive. The first was that he was hated and loathed for his crimes and the
second was that he was in a position to implicate others. The hows and the whys of his demise
will no doubt be debated for ever, but there will be few tears if any for the passing of this
extraordinary man.
Chet Roman , August 14, 2019 at 09:57
Your comments are spot on. I find it hard to believe that Epstein would kill himself
because he would be confident that he could get off once again. Many lawyers are saying that
prosecuting him again would not be easy because of the prior perverted deal with the corrupt
DOJ, which also gave immunity to co-conspirators without even naming them. After he was
released from prison the last time (he only slept in prison and was free most of the rest of
the time) he was welcomed with open arms in Hollywood and Wall Street by his coreligionists,
unlike many pedophiles that are shunned by society. He had strong ties with the wealthy and
powerful (Dershowitz, Wexner, etc.) and there is no reason for him to think he couldn't get
off again.
Chet Roman , August 14, 2019 at 10:07
Also, his prior "suicide attempt" which left marks on his neck, as if by fingers, reminded
me of the scene in Blazing Saddles where Cleavon Little takes himself hostage and threatens
to shoot the "hostage". Was Epstein really trying to choke himself in a suicide attempt? It
was reported that he said someone was trying to kill him.
Litchfield , August 15, 2019 at 14:35
Couldn't they do a DNA test on the marks on his neck to see how they were made -- if by
another human?
The first suicide story already stank.
ElderD , August 14, 2019 at 10:35
John is a careful guy. He's not going to go beyond sharing his personal knowledge and
carefully-worded opinions without solid, credible evidence, which none of us have at this
point. The Internet would be a "better place" if more people exercised such restraint.
I suggest accepting this for what it is: confirmation, from a man who knows, that
something was very wrong in the series of events and circumstances that led to Epstein's
death.
Jonathan Mason
, says: August 11, 2019 at 12:19 am GMT
And even if he did really commit suicide, it just shows what a third world sh*t hole we are. The most high profile prisoner
in the country, in a federal jail, in our largest city, on "suicide watch" commits suicide? At best – at best – we are beyond
pathetic.
I have written something similar in another thread, but I have some experience of working in prisons, and from my experience
suicidal prisoners are placed on and taken suicide precautions only on the written order of a psychiatrist, who may be a contract
employee, and a lot of the assessment of the mental state of inmates is done by psychologists or "psych specialists".
So this assessment is done more on clinical signs and symptoms, mood level, and what the inmate says, and not so much on an
existential assessment of the hopelessness of the situation facing the prisoner, what losing his liberty means to him, and so
on.
Also this is a clinical (medical) decision made by medical staff rather than a decision made by the Chief of Security.
It is not unusual for suicidal observations to be discontinued before a weekend on the say-so of the inmate saying he feels
he would be OK. part of the reason being the massive costs in overtime of having an extra officer assigned to keep this inmate
in line of sight at all times 24 hours a day. This is not supposed to affect the decisions of psychiatric or psychological staff,
but there are subtle pressures.
A small point of interest is that Epstein kept asking for a lot of toilet paper (by reports). It is possible to make a rope
that you can hang yourself with if you have enough toilet paper to weave it. I have not yet seen any reports on what he hanged
himself with.
I think it is entirely possible that Epstein made the decision to kill himself and plotted his way out of suicidal observations,
made a plan, and killed himself rather than spend the rest of his life in prison. Probably he had no faith in any plan his attorneys
had to have him found innocent. The gaff was blown.
To me this is the Occam's Razor and there is no need to believe in conspiracy theories, such as that someone got into his cell
and killed him. There are usually plenty of cameras watching the hallways and lobbies in prisons, and he was apparently locked
in his cell when he was found.
If there is a weakness in the system, it is that psychiatrists are just medical practitioners with a medical education and
they do what their discipline demands of them.
Lot , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:20 am GMT
@Hail Maybe it was a conspiracy.
Maybe a 68 year old used to a life of extreme luxury facing life in prison for child molestation killed himself.
He was in a federal jail. He was charged by the feds. If they wanted to kill him, seems easier to do so without the publicity
of first charging him.
The list of the accused is pretty unimpressive. Dersh, Prince Andrew, Bill Richardson, and George Mitchell. Two have been out
of power for 20 years, the other two never had any.
The list of people who took a free ride on the private jet is more impressive, but that doesn't mean much.
J.Ross , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:27 am GMT
@Jonathan Mason All this would be tolerable
if we were talking about a hotel room or a prison that had had suicides ever before in its history.
Cagey Beast , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:29 am GMT
If Epstein was killed it would have been by a group of people who don't have to live in the USA. It would have been done by people
who don't give a damn about burning bridges or getting an FBI raid at 4 AM when their co-conspirators go bad. I'd say it was the
Mossad but thinking in those nation-state terms is probably laughably old fashioned.
Lot , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:30 am GMT
@Clifford Brown Yeah, common sense, pedos
in jail have an extremely high rate of suicide, something the feds noted and were pretending to care about ten years ago.
Besides the additional shame, they are softer/older/less violent than the normal criminal population, and also have a larger
fall in status.
Odd stat in the link: 70% of federal child sex abuse (not porn or trafficking) defendants are American Indian. Some sort of
strange jurisdiction issue?
Jack Hanson , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:38 am GMT
@Jonathan Mason Unless you worked at this
particular prison and know the policies, this is nonsense at best and active disinfo at worst.
At my old state prison, a lowly CO could make a recommendation to the watch commander that "so and so said he was going to
kill himself" or give them reasons why he needed to be placed on suicide watch.
This by no means a "massive cost". It consists of your inmate being placed in a hold cell and taking one of your on duty rovers
or junior COs and sitting him in front of the door to stare at homeboy.
The idea that a 24 hour prison needs the say so of a clinician that works 8 hours a day is laughable.
MikeatMikedotMike
, says: August 11, 2019 at 12:40 am GMT
"Maybe a 68 year old used to a life of extreme luxury facing life in prison for child molestation killed himself. "
Your Devil's Advocate shtick would carry more water if there was any pattern established among enormously rich and powerful
narcissistic men committing suicide after arrest and or conviction for sex crimes.
I'm mean, at this point he was more likely to request a sex change based on Sailer's theory about rich powerful Alphas going
tranny post middle age.
But if anything he probably believed that he could beat the case just based on who he was.
Based on what we are seeing already in the immediate reactions on SM, there's a serious effort to (((circle the wagons))) from
all sides.
You'd be wise to pick a better battle to fight. There's no believable way he killed himself.
Jack Hanson , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:44 am GMT
Succint analysis I've seen:
"Most of the American people have learned today that their "elites" are unaccountable. They also know, on some level, what
it will take to fix this problem, and what they believe their country to be is very, very wrong. All three of these ideas make
Americans uncomfortable."
al-Gharaniq , says:
August 11, 2019 at 12:47 am GMT
I'm not one for conspiracy theories of any sort, and even in this case I'm leaning more towards "not a conspiracy theory," but
I find myself having doubts. That said, there are a few things that I can't really reconcile:
1. He had attempted suicide before very recently, and this is a high profile case, so he should be under constant surveillance.
He's so high-value (both financially and criminally) that no matter the cost, he would be constantly under surveillance. There
should be no way that this guy just slips through the cracks and offs himself. The level of incompetence required to make this
happen might only be seen in the most corrupt African countries.
2. He had attempted suicide before very recently, so why would someone else attempt to assist him or kill him? This is one
of those "if you're going to kill the king, don't miss" type situations. Had he died in the first attempt, it would be plausible
that it was suicide; but a second attempt in such close succession? This would make it obvious that someone was out to kill him,
and ruin the entire clandestine nature of it. Chances of the assassin (and assassination plot) being found out are much greater.
I don't quite know what to make of this. 1 makes it highly unlikely he did this himself, but 2 makes it highly unlikely someone
else did it.
JohnnyWalker123
, says: August 11, 2019 at 12:48 am GMT
@Lot Pedophiles don't "kill" themselves.
Pedophiles typically have many accomplices. It's a well known fact a considerable number of powerful men participate in these
pedophile rings. When one guy gets caught, he becomes the fall guy and takes the blame. If it looks like he might turn, he gets
"suicided" before he can talk.
Given what happened to Epstein today, is it really so implausible that other molesters could've been killed in jail by assassins?
Given how low-profile most of those cases are in general, it'd be so much easier to get away with assassinations.
I find it breathtaking that even with all this public attention, Epstein couldn't have been prevented from committing "suicide."
Paul Jolliffe ,
says: August 11, 2019 at 12:54 am GMT
@Flip Did the intelligence agency that was
running Epstein really believe that he'd never be arrested and pressured to squeal?
Didn't they have a back-up plan in case he was sent to jail? After all, Epstein was dodging serious charges for years, so the
possibility of getting picked up again was not that remote.
Would Epstein have been "suicided" if his handlers were sure he wouldn't talk/rat them out?
Or, was Epstein threatening to tell all, and did his handlers decide to use "extreme prejudice"?
If he did hint at anything to his lawyers, they are dead men walking . . .
Cagey Beast , says:
August 11, 2019 at 1:01 am GMT
This is the historical moment when the politically engaged slice of society gets a sense of just how rigged the game really is.
I might like to think of myself as clever but I bet I have no clue just how bad it really is.
Anon [732]
Disclaimer , says: August 11, 2019
at 1:06 am GMT
Dear Deep State,
I believe Vince Foster committed suicide.
I believe Seth Rich died in a bungled street robbery.
I believe Whitey Bulger's death was just another ordinary case of prisoner-on-prisoner violence.
I believe it was the autopsy of Stephen Paddock, the body found in the hotel room.
I believe Hillary's deleted emails were all about yoga and weddings.
I believe Bill and Loretta talked about golf and grandkids on the plane on the tarmac.
I believe
in Credere, Obbedire, Combattere
Cagey Beast , says:
August 11, 2019 at 1:14 am GMT
The rest of us little people (six figure income and below) need to recognise the gods are at war. Keep your heads down and weed
your own gardens
Prof. Woland , says:
August 11, 2019 at 1:21 am GMT
@Cagey Beast One of the interesting revelations
to come out recently is that Zorro Trust, the entity that owns Epstein's New Mexico ranch won an $85,000,000 lottery in 2008.
https://medium.com/@nathanielhebert/did-jeffrey-epstein-win-the-oklahoma-powerball-lottery-july-2-2008-d23d2b0933e5
The winning ticket was sold at a convenience store in Altus, Oklahoma, hardly a place where someone like Epstein would be hobnobbing.
If true, it either means the man was incredibly lucky (although I think his luck has run out) or the game was fixed. My guess
is that it is the latter. At any rate, I hope that Barr gets to the bottom of this.
Peterike , says:
August 11, 2019 at 1:31 am GMT
@Lot "Yeah, common sense, pedos in jail
have an extremely high rate of suicide"
There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in Epstein's personality that would suggest suicidal behavior. Like Jack D, certain things
just bring out the Jew in you, and Epstein is one of them. You're trying to cover for him for ethnic nepotism reasons, and it's
so deeply felt you don't even understand it yourself, but it's utterly obvious to those outside you.
Jack D , says:
August 11, 2019 at 1:45 am GMT
I am not a believer in conspiracy theories. Never attribute government action to evil when mere incompetence will suffice.
It's my feeling that Epstein killed himself even though he should have been on suicide watch and he was not on suicide watch
due to bureaucratic incompetence. As Jonathan said, some low bidder contract employee (a lot of the gov. employee psychiatrists
in NY are like Koreans who don't even speak Engrish that well) who was under instructions never to put anyone on suicide watch
because it leads to expensive overtime signed off on Epstein as if he was any other disposable piece of trash prisoner as 99%
of prisoners are. The bureaucracy is really very democratic and treats everyone like shit (except for their own, who are treated
like royalty). The bureaucracy exists for itself and not to take care of prisoners. They don't want them all to kill themselves
because then they wouldn't have jobs but a few now and then are no big deal.
Maybe, maybe maybe if the instruction had come from on high to really, really treat Epstein as extra special then they would
have done it, but it never came. Epstein had ample intelligence and reason to want to kill himself and the bureaucracy didn't
have ample reason or intelligence to stop him so he won
unit472 , says:
August 11, 2019 at 1:48 am GMT
The most baffling ( or perhaps not) thing about Epstein's death was the curious lack of curiousity by the media. Last week when
a gunman opened fire in the El Paso Walmart the media went to wall to wall coverage despite not having any real information to
impart, not even a body count! That did not stop the networks from bringing on their retired Law Enforcement 'experts' to bloviate
for hour after hour.
Contrast that with today. With the public desperate to know how a marked man in federal custody could somehow kill himself
or be killed the media only ran an obligatory segment at the top of the each hour and then resumed their planned coverage about
gun control.
Lagertha , says:
August 11, 2019 at 2:01 am GMT
@Jack D psychopaths do not kill themselves
never crosses their mind.
Buck Ransom , says:
August 11, 2019 at 2:10 am GMT
@R.G. Camara Trump using Epstein to take
down the Clintons. That was Tom Luongo's first impression and he wrote a couple of columns about it a month or so ago:
https://tomluongo.me/2019/07/08/epstein-arrest-peak-swamp/
https://tomluongo.me/2019/07/12/acosta-resigns-project-epstein-trump/
Bubba , says:
August 11, 2019 at 2:11 am GMT
@dearieme
If he wasn't murdered he's been smuggled out of jail.
Agree.
guest , says:
August 11, 2019 at 2:24 am GMT
Sad when the death of an Underage Sex Ringmaster makes me sick instead of happy.
Anon [151]
Disclaimer , says: August 11, 2019
at 2:32 am GMT
In this day and age, the only way to get an honest death penalty for a monster like Epstein is to have it be self-inflicted. I'm
very pleased he hung himself. He saved us a lot of taxpayer money
Anon [151]
Disclaimer , says: August 11, 2019
at 2:48 am GMT
To be honest, I think Epstein could have gotten off lightly if he'd turned state's evidence and ratted on his high profile friends.
He could have gone into a witness protection program afterwards. But I suspect he held assets that could not be explained by normal
means, and he didn't want all that dug up.
He has an interesting history. He was dismissed as a teacher, and was asked to leave Bear Stearns. Finally, he decided to leave
this life. Nothing but a history of being kicked out or checking out.He knew and gave tax advice to Edgar Bronfman, father of
Clare Bronfman of the NXIVM sex cult. I wonder if Epstein had any connection to the cult? If he gave tax advice to Edgar, why
not his daughter? He was also an adviser to Adnan Khashoggi,
JohnnyWalker123
, says: August 11, 2019 at 3:04 am GMT
Interesting fact.
In the jail in which Epstein is held, there has only been 1 other suicide in the last 21 years. The jail has been described
as a facility in which suicide is "nearly impossible" due to the elaborate security procedures.
See this article.
https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/suicide-supposedly-nearly-impossible-at-ulta-secure-jeffrey-epstein-lockup/
In those 21 years, nearly 40,000 inmates have passed through the jail facility. So the facility has a suicide rate of 2 per
40,000. Coincidentally, 1 of those 2 was Epstein.
What a huge coincidence.
By the way, your lifetime odds of being struck by lightning are roughly 1 per 9,000.
So Epstein's chances of being struck by lightning were more than twice his odds of "committing suicide" while imprisoned in
that jail.
My analysis: Rare coincidence. Nothing to see, folks. Move along. Don't be a "conspiracy theorist."
JimDandy , says:
August 11, 2019 at 3:09 am GMT
After he was taken to the hospital the first time, an non-controlled MSM would have been all over it, asking questions, etc.
They weren't.
The most blatant , undisguised "fuck you" the elites have given the American plebes in my lifetime.
That (Other) Guy
, says: August 11, 2019 at 3:12 am GMT
Never been a huge fan of the 'obvious' conspiracies (JFK etc.). I still say the odds are on a real suicide. Older man, no more
of his girls or decent food or anything he likes forever. The idea of a life in a little cell is probably far more difficult to
get used to than most of us know. And we're dealing with a spoiled rich guy here too. More than a few much tougher guys have been
broken by the whole thing.
Despite all that, I'd still only put it at 70 percent that it's a real suicide. Maybe he was 'strongly encouraged' to do it.
Perhaps much more abuse was in the offing if he didn't and that was intimated to him in clear terms.
Couch Scientist
, says: August 11, 2019 at 3:16 am GMT
If I were going to kill Epstein, you can bet that I would shut down 8chan first. Oh, that happened on August 5? You don't say?
Just before the release of the court records? Really?
Poor Jeff, the guilt must have really gotten to him. When he commissioned that painting of himself in a prison yard, he
thought he could make it, but with guilt and prison life, etc etc he just could not go another day without a massage. What
a shame, what a damn shame
Mitchell Porter
, says: August 11, 2019 at 3:20 am GMT
In Epstein's bio at Wikipedia, he is described as advising Bear Stearns' wealthiest clients on "tax mitigation", i.e. pay as little
tax as possible (Bear Stearns, a giant investment bank, was a casualty of the 2008 financial crisis.) Edgar Bronfman is specifically
mentioned as one such client, a billionaire who was also an extremely influential international lobbyist regarding Jewish issues,
above all within the late Soviet Union. Among Bronfman's children are two daughters who provided financial, legal, and material
support to NXIVM, a psychological cult which served as cover for a growing circle of sex slaves. And recall that Epstein was assisted
by a daughter of Robert Maxwell, another tycoon who after his death was eulogized for his service to Israel
Richard S , says:
August 11, 2019 at 3:30 am GMT
@Forbes His suicide came as a surprise,
most of all to himself..
Alden , says:
August 11, 2019 at 3:41 am GMT
@Alden I checked suicide watch was 7-23
to 7-29.
And the 2 guards on his corridor were told to leave because of middle of the night maintenance. Must be an easy job 11 pm to
7 am shift electricians and plumbers on duty every night in case of sudden electric fire or flood Night shift differential too.
Probably need at least 2 people at all times because most jobs need 2 pairs of hands
I bet this was the first middle of the night maintenance since the building was finished.
And why would the guards have to leave? Who did this middle of the night maintenance?
If they do exist they died in auto crashes at 7/30 Saturday morning after they left work.
The absent guards are not liable because they followed procedure and obeyed the order to leave their post.
Who gave the order? " Oh, it came over the intercom. He said it was my superior, Captain so and so." " and did you indeed give
the order?" Captain so and so?"
" no I did not"
Richard S , says:
August 11, 2019 at 3:44 am GMT
@Cagey Beast I had to switch back temporarily
to establishment media to see how this was being presented to the masses. With wry cynicism, it seems to me, even from the hairstyled
mediabots reading the autocue.
There's not even the "plausible" deniability they had with Seth Rich, God bless his soul.
Anonymous [427]
Disclaimer , says: August 11, 2019
at 3:51 am GMT
@Jack Hanson
"Most of the American people have learned today that their "elites" are unaccountable. They also know, on some level, what
it will take to fix this problem, and what they believe their country to be is very, very wrong. All three of these ideas make
Americans uncomfortable.
Covington, at the end, used to say that the problem was not that people didn't know what would be required to save their freedom
and their continued existence as a people, but rather that they knew full well, and the thought was unbearable to most people.
hhsiii , says:
August 11, 2019 at 3:59 am GMT
@Peterike Pedophiles are pariahs in jail.
Often murdered.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Eyes_(film)
I agree Epstein wouldn't seemingly have much sense of shame. Likely a hit. Duh.
Lot , says:
August 11, 2019 at 4:01 am GMT
@JohnnyWalker123 The Post article said they
looked for media reports of suicide and found only one other. How many didn't become news? Is it normally newsworthy when a criminal
offs himself in jail?
And even if there were brief reports, they may not mention the name of the jail.
The other reported suicide was a "drug kingpin." Would a mid level dealer or random child porn downloader suicide really make
the news? I have actually never once read an article in my local paper about a local jail/prison suicide, though I am sure it
happens.
Jonathan Mason
, says: August 11, 2019 at 4:03 am GMT
@Jack D
It's my feeling that Epstein killed himself even though he should have been on suicide watch and he was not on suicide watch
due to bureaucratic incompetence.
You and I quite often see the world in the same way, but many of the others who post comments here have a different weltanschauung.
All I can say is that it is interesting to get different perspectives and learn how other people think and all opinions are welcome,
even if they are diametrically opposed to mine.
Jonathan Mason
, says: August 11, 2019 at 4:06 am GMT
@hhsiii
I agree Epstein wouldn't seemingly have much sense of shame. Likely a hit. Duh.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to hang an unwilling participant, string him up from some ceiling fixture, leave him
hanging, and do it really quietly so that you don't wake anyone else up?
anon [482]
Disclaimer , says: August 11, 2019
at 4:18 am GMT
We really can't know if it was suicide or murder. But we do know:
1. If it was a murder it is quite brazen and shows how confident the killers are that they can control the narrative on the story
in the world (not just US) media. It would be a sign that we live under totalitarian rule.
2. The fact that we can't know if our governmnet is this corrupt or not, because so much of what our government does is secret,
is a sign that we don't have a democracy or republic worthy of the name. If we lived in a democracy or a republic we wouldn't
have to worry about this.
3. "Consipiracy theories" are no longer the province of kooks. Reasonable people now have to be conspiracy theorists to avoid
being fooled by offical lies (Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction).
4. No good man can tolerate this condition. Something must change.
Lagertha , says:
August 11, 2019 at 4:24 am GMT
@Charles Erwin Wilson 3 Bill's body is degenerating
at a rapid pace as is Hillary's – they look like death. They are not even fuckable anymore, yet they will fight to the death of
them to defend some imaginary image they have of themselves. I hate these slimey, truly trashy low-lives, since 1991. I want them
tied to Epstein and rung under the keel of a ship, back & forth, until they can no longer speak.
Jonathan Mason
, says: August 11, 2019 at 4:33 am GMT
@Jack Hanson
At my old state prison, a lowly CO could make a recommendation to the watch commander that "so and so said he was going
to kill himself" or give them reasons why he needed to be placed on suicide watch.
This by no means a "massive cost". It consists of your inmate being placed in a hold cell and taking one of your on duty
rovers or junior COs and sitting him in front of the door to stare at homeboy.
The idea that a 24 hour prison needs the say so of a clinician that works 8 hours a day is laughable.
It could be very different where you live from the processes I have seen in Florida.
Certainly any CO could START the process of placing someone on suicide watch as you describe as an emergency procedure, but
they would still have to be assessed by psych as soon as reasonably possible, and certainly within 24 hours for that process to
continue for more than 24 hours, and they could only be released from suicidal watch on the with the approval of the psychiatrist.
If the process started at night, the inmate would still have to be taken to the medical department and seen by the nurse who
would evaluate the inmate and make a call to the on-call doctor for a verbal order to start SHOS protocols, pending a more detailed
psych eval the next day.
Since Epstein had been on suicide watch and released from it, it is unlikely that he was showing signs of suicidal intent that
a CO would recognize as an emergency on Friday evening. In fact it is most likely that he would have wanted to hide any such indications.
Your assumption is that there are plenty of hallway rovers available at the weekend, or junior COs available to sit in front
of the door flap and that overtime work would not be required, and neither you nor I can know what the staffing situation was
like in that facility last night. In the prison I worked at, staffing was extremely tight at weekends, especially if a CO got
injured or sick and had to leave, and there was constant pressure to reduce overtime which could easily be needed if someone was
to remain on SHOS over the weekend.
Mr. Anon , says:
August 11, 2019 at 5:35 am GMT
@hhsiii
Pedophiles are pariahs in jail. Often murdered.
I hear this a lot. But is it really true? Honestly, I'm just not buying the notion that hardened criminals have such a strong
sense of justice. In any event, the crimes Epstein was accused of was having sexual relations (perhaps coercive or semi-coercive)
with young teen-aged girls. Probably a lot of guys in prison have done the same thing and bragged about it often.
If there is some truth to the trope about pedophiles getting beat-up and/or murdered in prison, I tend to think it has less
to do with some kind of noble prison honor-code, and more to do with thinking along the lines of: "That guy victimized kids? He
must be a p ** sy. Maybe I'll beat him up and take his cigarettes."
Mr. Anon , says:
August 11, 2019 at 5:42 am GMT
@Jonathan Mason
I think it is entirely possible that Epstein made the decision to kill himself and plotted his way out of suicidal observations,
made a plan, and killed himself rather than spend the rest of his life in prison. Probably he had no faith in any plan his
attorneys had to have him found innocent. The gaff was blown.
I believe he was awaiting an appeal of his bail decision. He might have had the expectation of release and house-arrest, at
least for a time. A slim possibility, but real none-the-less. He had not even been tried, let alone convicted. And he did beat
this rap before. If he wanted to kill himself, he would have any number of opportunities after he was convicted, when things truly
would be hopeless for him.
AnotherDad , says:
August 11, 2019 at 5:43 am GMT
Thoughts?
Assuming TPTB didn't kill him, i'd say Epstein realized for all his financial success, he'd wasted his life.
Epstein was obviously a talented guy. He could have lived a meaningful life–committed to his tribe, made aliyah, found a nice
girl, raised a family, been part of Israel's lineage and future or thrown in with America, found a girl and done the same here.
But to Epstein, America was nothing but a marketplace–for him to peddle whatever he could sell–and his legacy is as transient
and empty. He heeded the siren call of the dark side and so got his just deserts.
But the sad fact is that in the modern West under minoritarianism so many normal people waste their lives as well. Minoritarianism
breaks the bonds of neighborhood and nation, history and heritage. It corrodes culture and casts people adrift without connection
. It's step-sister feminism tells impressionable women deep lies and destroy lives. It's bitter fruit is spinsterhood, childlessness,
missing children, damaged families, divorce and death.
Epstein is the personification of a truth. A nation reduced to being a marketplace is nothing at all -- a suicidal path to
emptiness, despair and death.
Uilleam Yr Alban
, says: August 11, 2019 at 5:58 am GMT
@Cagey Beast Every 70 or so years the U.S.
goes through a major restructuring. Encrusted systems of injustice make people sufficiently angry that they are willing to forgo
short- and medium-term comfort in order to reorganize the systems
Alden , says:
August 11, 2019 at 6:11 am GMT
@AnotherDad I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, but
pimps are just evil. More evil than rapists in some ways. That's more than 2o years dealing with sex crimes speaking.
And the money? 85 million winning lottery ticket? 20 million house in Manhattan. Private planes so he could take minors out
of the country? His pimp partner the daughter of Maxwell the Mossad and KGB spy who stole the pension funds of dozens of companies.
That's just one of Maxwell's financial crimes.
Epstein's money came from Wexler. He owned an investment company but he never did any buying selling trades anything. NYC financial
folk gossiped about him for years about where his money cane from as his company did little investing had few clients or employees
He didn't even finish college. He was a 105 IQ White pimp and came to a bad end as most pimps do
Mr. Anon , says:
August 11, 2019 at 6:39 am GMT
@Lagertha
psychopaths do not kill themselves never crosses their mind.
Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ed Kemper, David Berkowitz, Richard Ramirez, Charles Manson – all of them did worse things than
Epstein is accused of doing. Pretty shameful things too – to anybody who has a sense of shame – murder, cannibalism, necrophilia.
And yet, none of them ever tried to commit suicide. They all clung to life until it was taken from them, if they are not still
alive.
I don't think Epstein had a single milliliter of shame in him. If he did, he wouldn't have lived his life the way he did.
I'm with you – his suicide doesn't compute.
Svigor , says:
August 11, 2019 at 7:08 am GMT
I'm reading that the camera in Epstein's cell "malfunctioned."
Riiiiight.
K let's just cut right to the chase: everyone who doesn't believe that the Jewish Mafia (AKA international Jewry) had Epstein
murdered, plz raise ur hand.
Plz include explanation as to why someone who has half a billion dollars, has displayed no capability for shame or guilt, and
the maximum amount of chutzpah humanly possible, and who has beat the system over and over and over for most of his life, would
kill himself.
Haha, j/k, there's no explanation.
Svigor , says:
August 11, 2019 at 7:18 am GMT
@Lawyer Guy Yep. It will be interesting
to see how much of a coverup follows. The murder scene? Court documents? Evidence gathered? (((Ghislaine Maxwell))) skates?
One complication is that the victims' lawyers are going after his estate. Speaking of, it'll be interesting to discover who
is going to get Epstein's stuff (AFAIK he has no kids).
Wouldn't be surprised if the victims' lawyers go after (((Madam Maxwell))) and try to take all her shit, too.
Svigor , says:
August 11, 2019 at 7:31 am GMT
@Hopscotch The orange faggot could have
drained half the swamp the day after he was inaugurated, by firing anyone who smelled funny at CIA, NSA, FBI, etc., etc., etc;
they have pretty much no legal protection from firing, because Cold War Taken Seriously.
He's fired nobody.
He sure as fuck isn't going to bother with investigations if he's too lazy or cowardly to even fire people.
Mr. Anon , says:
August 11, 2019 at 7:40 am GMT
@Prof. Woland
One of the interesting revelations to come out recently is that Zorro Trust, the entity that owns Epstein's New Mexico ranch
won an $85,000,000 lottery in 2008.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting.
Maybe Epstein was struck by lightning while in prison. He is .just .that .lucky.
South Texas Guy
, says: August 11, 2019 at 8:07 am GMT
@Alden
No fixtures, nothing but a flat ceiling with recessed lights in those federal detention centers. Even if they managed to
make a rope out of torn up underwear what would they attach it to?
In the two jailhouse suicides I reporter on (city jails, but probably similar to a fed clink), both of them used the thin blanket
provided to them, waited for the hourly check to happen, then tied one end around their neck and the other to the top bunk.
The thing is that means you still had contact with the floor and had to consciously keep as much weight on your neck until
you passed out. A neurologist I contacted after one of them told me that since a blanket would be much thicker than a rope, it's
conceivable death occurred in 7-8 minutes, but probably more like 10-20, and could have been as much as 30 to 45 minutes.
In both cases the two prisoners (one was caught with child porn) were extremely depressed about their circumstances, which
would explain the extraordinary lengths they went through to off themselves. Epstein struck me as an arrogant asshole, and not
the suicidal type, but that's just a guess on my part.
JohnnyWalker123
, says: August 11, 2019 at 8:17 am GMT
@Lot Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell
first dated, then later operated a prostitution ring in South Florida. Ghislaine's father was a very valuable Mossad agent (as
confirmed by Israeli leaders and journalist Seymour Hersh). So valuable that various Israeli leaders and intelligence figures
attended his funeral.
Epstein was given a huge amount of money to manage by super pro-Israel Leslie Wexner (owner of L Brands and Victoria's Secret)
and then "misappropriated it." Epstein was even given a free (!!!) multimillion dollar house by Wexner.
For his crimes, Epstein got a super easy deal from Acosta in 2008. Later, Acosta claimed that someone told him that Epstein
was "intelligence" and therefore he should back down, which was Acosta's explanation for offering the easy deal. Acosta was later
fired for this.
Even before that, Epstein had a charmed existence for decades. Despite being a college dropout, he got a teaching job at super
prestigious Dalton. He later went to work on Wall Street and made partner at Bear Stearns. In what normal country does a college
dropout get all those cool jobs?
Even after his brief sentence for sex crimes in 2008, he continued to be accepted in elite circles. He seems to have surrounded
himself with a very high proportion of Jewish individuals.
I have no idea why Epstein was rearrested recently, but I suppose someone powerful must've had their hand forced. Jews may
not be all-powerful, but there's no way to understand Epstein's rise and his decades of untouchability without mentioning the
role of influential Jewish ethnic networks. If these networks can't protect their members 100% of the time, it doesn't mean they
don't exist.
The Epstein story is just too strange for real life.
JohnnyWalker123
, says: August 11, 2019 at 8:30 am GMT
@Mr. Anon Right. Epstein molested a lot
of teen girls, which is extremely common behavior for criminals. A huge fraction of them are involved in teen prostitution, either
as pimps or "johns." I really doubt any of them felt strongly about what Epstein did.
The reality is that pedophiles often operate with huge networks of co-abusers, with many of the abusers sometimes coming from
elite circles in government, entertainment, and business. So silencing these pedophiles before they talk is a priority. There
are lots of criminals who are willing to take a payment (or let their family take a payment) in return for whacking the convicted
pedophile in jail.
Kyle , says:
August 11, 2019 at 8:58 am GMT
@Mr. Anon Yes it's true pedophiles get beat
up in prison. I think it because the prisoners want to feel morally superior in some way. Also because there's nothing to do in
prison, and it seems to me that prisoners recreate this bizzare culture of what they see in television and movies because they
have nothing better to do. So they form racial gangs and barter honey buns for cigarettes and kick newbies asses. Talking to them
I also get the sense that half of what they say isn't true, they're just embellishing the few things that did happen because mostly
nothing happened. Telling badass prison stories is cooler than admitting that you're a looser who spent two years of his life
locked up doing nothing. The one thing they all agree on is that nobody gets raped in the shower.
anon [164]
Disclaimer
August 11, 2019 at 9:11 am GMT
200 Words @Mr. Anon Having spent time myself
in prison, I can state that it's categorically true that almost any kind of sex offender is a pariah whose safety is in danger
at any regular prison. As soon as you arrive at a facility someone from your race will enter your cell and demand to see your
official court papers. Just about any charge is fine as long as it doesn't have to do with sex or children. One cellmate I had
had shot his step-father in the head execution-style, which was considered perfectly acceptable. If your charges are considered
"bad" however, you will almost certainly be beaten on the spot and forced out of the unit. Many, probably most, states have separate
facilities dedicated to housing sex offenders because it is too difficult to keep them safe in any other setting. They are called
"chomos" and "Chesters".
Why do prisoners do this? I think it probably comes down mostly to two things. One, many prisoners themselves were
abused as children and genuinely hate abusers. Two, the entire world looks down on felons as beneath contempt, yet this is one
group they get to look down upon in the same way. Nobody wants to feel as if they are at the very bottom of the social hierarchy.
Counterinsurgency
August 11, 2019 at 9:31 am GMT
@Anonymous Anybody notice when "conspiracy
theory" became synonymous with "truth".
Otto von Bismark supposedly commented, at one point, "Never believe any rumor you may hear until it has been officially
denied." [1] It's an old idea, but it was always half joke before.
Counterinsurgency
1] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/07/believe/
Counterinsurgency
August 11, 2019 at 9:35 am GMT
100 Words @Cagey Beast
If Epstein was killed it would have been by a group of people who don't have to live in the USA. It would have
been done by people who don't give a damn about burning bridges or getting an FBI raid at 4 AM when their co-conspirators go
bad. I'd say it was the Mossad but thinking in those nation-state terms is probably laughably old fashioned.
Whoever it was, the mission was so very risky that it would only have been approved if the damage from a live Epstein
would have had to exceed the damage from a blown mission cover. And that's saying something.
Counterinsurgency
Jack D
August 11, 2019 at 12:12 pm GMT
100 Words @Helo Look, you didn't have to
be Nostradamus to guess that Epstein might kill himself (or "kill himself"). The question is why something that was so obvious
to everyone else was not obvious to the Bureau of Prisons. I'd be skeptical too, but something not dissimilar happened to Whitey
Bulger. In his case, the answer was not even bureaucratic incompetence but that Bulger had threatened a BoP employee, so the system
decided to take revenge on him.
The point is that the priorities of everyone else in America, possibly up to and including the POTUS and the priorities
of the lower reaches of the bureaucracy, the actual boots on the ground who had custody of Epstein, are not the same thing and
it is the latter that really counts. And these priorities are not necessarily grand and conspiratorial – they can be mundane and
petty.
Jim Don Bob
August 11, 2019 at 12:44 pm GMT
100 Words @Alden
It's a psychiatrist , not a prison watch commander or whatever they call them in NYC.
That usually determines suicide watch.
Right. And a suicide watch is expensive because you have to have a guard doing nothing else but keep Epstein in his
sight.
This looks very bad, but it could simply be incompetence.
Jim Don Bob
August 11, 2019 at 1:28 pm GMT
@Jack D
that Bulger had threatened a BoP employee
An 89 year old guy in a wheelchair threatened a BoP employee so bad they had him killed? Really!
Jonathan Mason
August 11, 2019 at 1:57 pm GMT
100 Words @Gentle Hysteric
Has any reader heard of someone hanging himself with toilet paper?
Obviously there are a few Unz readers who have had such sheltered lives that they have never been in a prison.
You make several strands of paper rope as shown in the photo below, and then plait several strands together. It can
be surprisingly strong if done right. Prisoners can also use such ropes in escape attempts.
No word at this time on whether Epstein was a macrame hobbyist.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/3237030951697774/?lp=true
Toilet paper can also be used for suicide by means of stuffing it down your throat until you asphyxiate.
In prison it can also be used to make papier-mache chess sets. (The black pieces are dyed with coffee.)
68W58 , says:
August 12, 2019 at 12:54 am GMT
@Jonathan Mason I was a CO for about two
years. Your primary responsibility is security and you are taught to never leave inmates unsupervised. Inmates in their cells
have a certain amount of privacy, but you are supposed to make regular rounds. Modern prisons are engineered to take things like
fire into account-for instance, the prison where I worked had huge fans in the ceiling that are supposed to suck smoke out in
the event of fire. From the control booth there is a switch that can "pop" every door on a cell block and there are fire doors
that can be opened from there to allow inmates to evacuate to the yard. The prison where I worked had medical staff to respond
to medical emergencies, but some prisons may not. I can't see officers leaving an entire unit unsupervised (who was in the control
booth?) for any reason, so none of this makes any sense.
HEL , says:
August 11, 2019 at 2:27 pm GMT
@Jack D
The point is that the priorities of everyone else in America, possibly up to and including the POTUS and the priorities
of the lower reaches of the bureaucracy, the actual boots on the ground who had custody of Epstein, are not the same thing
and it is the latter that really counts. And these priorities are not necessarily grand and conspiratorial – they can be mundane
and petty.
This. Most people here are acting as if this prison was some sort of elite, specially-formed project designed for the sole
purpose of keeping Jeffrey Epstein, verified MOST IMPORTANT PRISONER IN THE WORLD, alive until trial. When in actuality I'm pretty
sure it's just another prison, and Epstein was mostly just another prisoner. One who probably actually warranted less attention
than most, as he was just an old man sitting by himself in his own cell.
I'm open to possibilities. But I'm gonna need actual evidence, not mere innuendo.
Jack D , says:
August 11, 2019 at 3:27 pm GMT
@TWS They were SUPPOSED to be checking on
him every half hour. But, and I know this is shocking, sometimes prison guards don't do their jobs. Maybe you have another job
during the day so you use your night shift job to get some well deserved rest. Just because there is some high profile Jew prisoner
that the Internet is all excited about doesn't mean that you should disrupt your usual sleep routine for that POS.
Everyone is looking at this from a top-down, how glad Bill Clinton is today perspective when the right way to look at these
things is from the bottom up – not what were the motives and incentives of the Establishment but what were the motives and incentives
of the poor schmuck whose job it was to watch Epstein. Of course, I think he misjudged – everyone from DJT to AOC is calling for
investigations and he's going to come into the crosshairs. But the union will defend him and he probably has enough seniority
to retire and take a pension so he'll be OK.
Uilleam Yr Alban
, says: August 11, 2019 at 10:46 pm GMT
@Counterinsurgency The organizing principle
of highly identified Jewish actors is fear . Fear underlies every hatred.
Peoples who are afraid can be very effective in the short term due to their ferocity. If they can't rein it in over the long
term, they anger their allies and have to face their chosen opponents, and experience a backlash just as ferocious as they are
AnotherDad , says:
August 11, 2019 at 11:17 pm GMT
@PhysicistDave
Epstein was obviously a talented guy.
Was he? Even the MSM has been speculating recently as to where his money came from, given that he seemed to do nothing and
have no discernible talents or skills.
Clarification–for you, Alden, anyone else: I'm not particularly up to speed on the whole Epstein story. Don't know anything
about his background. But when i wrote "talented", i'm certainly not saying the guy was going to give us a breakthrough battery
technology or help develop the thorium cycle.
My take is that the skills to be pimp to movers and shakers, and run an operation like this Lolita express to the Caribbean
are not unlike those for selling cars or real estate or medical devices, or being a drug rep, or a lobbyist, or hawking financial
investments, etc. etc. etc. I.e. a schmoozer. As a grandson of the soil, i tend to have a low opinion of the middle man types.
My default thought is "parasite." But there's no doubt the sales guys can make a decent living in America. Enough to afford a
wife, some kids, the four bedroom house (in a neighborhood with 'good schools'). He could have been organizing the local little
league and been "a pillar of the community". Most importantly a father, with a family, a legacy, a stake in the future. But he
chose the dark side and lo and behold at 60 something realizes his life is a big zero.
dr kill , says:
August 11, 2019 at 11:24 pm GMT
@Hail Why did he return to the USA. He could
have stayed in France.
Hail , says:
Website
August 11, 2019 at 11:43 pm GMT
@dr kill Why was he re-arrested in July
2019? Who ordered the re-arrest? Why?
Hail , says:
Website
August 12, 2019 at 3:40 am GMT
This thread ("Epstein Dead") was buried under six new blog posts not long after it was posted, and therefore relatively less likely
get lots of views for the many who interact with the iSteve blog via either the main Unz.com page or
http://www.unz.com/isteve/ (as opposed to
http://www.unz.com/author/steve-sailer/ , showing all posts
in 'Teaser' versions).
Even so, this post, "Epstein Dead," has become the eighth-most-commented-thread this summer (so far) here at iSteve
. Two other Epstein posts from the period right after his arrest (July 6) are in the top 10, and another one on the list is from
after Epstein's first alleged 'injury' in prison (July 24), making a total of four Epstein posts in the Top 20.
______________________
Below I list/link to the most-commented iSteve posts for June 1 to Aug. 11, 2019
There were 337 iSteve blog posts in that period, so the below 25 posts are the top 7.5% most-commented-on posts of summer
2019 thru Aug. 11. This thread, "Epstein Dead," is at the 98th percentile in comment-count (and may rise further) in summer 2019.
______________________
1- " Has there
ever been a realistic movie about White Flight? " (August 6, 2019): 604 comments [Note: This is also the most-commented
iSteve thread of the past six months, as of this writing]
2- " Jeffrey Epstein and 'Foreign
Intelligence' " (July 9, 2019): 551 comments
3- " Gay Liberation Caused AIDS (June 30,
2019): 526 comments
4- " 737 Max and Outsourcing " (June 28, 2019):
466 comments
5- " The Bonfire of the Tranities " (July
24, 2019): 455 comments
6- " George Will Wants
the American People to Enjoy More Immigration, Good and Hard " (June 10, 2019): 428 comments
7- " US Women's National Soccer Team
" (June 12, 2019): 426 comments
8- " Epstein Dead " (August 10, 2019): 410 comments
and counting
9- " Jewish Eugenics " [What does it mean to be
genetically jewish? asks Guardian ] (June 15, 2019): 409 comments
10- " Forward: Jeffrey
Epstein Is NOT a Shanda for the Goyim " (July 10, 2019): 407 comments
11- " El Paso " [mass shooting] (August 4, 2019): 377 comments
12- "
San Francisco to Spend Up to $875,000 to Cover Up a Communist Mural for Being Racist " (June 30, 2019): 363 comments
13- " Baltimore Is Back in the News
" (July 27, 2019): 362 comments
14- "
Washington Post Obituary for an American Patriot Ends by Comparing Him to a Dead Animal Poisoning a Well " (July 22, 2019):
344 comments
15 (tie)- " The Coalition
of the Fringes' circular firing squad " [Ocasio-Cortez Chief-of-Staff Saikat Chakrabarti vs. Amerind Congresswoman Sharice
Davids] (July 13, 2019): 339 comments
15 (tie)- " What Do You Think
of Tarantino's New Movie? " [Once Upon a Time in Hollywood] (July 29, 2019): 339 comments
17- "
The
Further Adventures of Angela Saini, Now in [Anti]Scientific American " (July 30, 2019): 337 comments
18- " 75th Anniversary of Diversity Day " (June 5, 2019): 330
comments
19- " I am Not Making This Op-Ed Up
" [a Muslim-Canadian celebrating Toronto Raptors' winning NBA Finals as a victory of diversity] (June 17, 2019): 328 comments
20- " Jeffrey
Epstein Found Semi-Conscious with Marks on His Neck " (July 25, 2019): 325 comments
21- " Tucker Carlson Saves
Trump from War with Iran " (June 22, 2019): 321 comments
22- " What's Going on in China? " (August
5, 2019): 320 comments
23- " And So It Begins " [on DNA scans on ancient
skeletons: Jews vs. Palestinians] (July 8, 2019): 319 comments
24- " Sailer in Taki's: Invade,
Invite, Implode " (August 7, 2019): 317 comments
25- "
Jury Dings Oberlin $44 Million for Anti-White Libel Against a Neighborhood Bakery " (June 13, 2019): 313 comments
Curious Cat , says:
August 12, 2019 at 1:45 pm GMT
Since the government is hopelessly corrupt and goes around "suiciding" people, why not demand that the NSA release every phone
call, email, or text message Epstein ever sent or received. The 4th Amendment is a dead letter anyway; might as well put some
of that NSA data to good use.
Jonathan Mason
, says: August 13, 2019 at 2:03 am GMT
@Sean Good points and the Salon article
is very interesting.
This is my last comment on the fascinating Epstein story, but it does seem to be that nearly all the allegations against Epstein
come back to Virginia Roberts, who seems like a chronologically unreliabe witness when it comes to dates, and no one seems to
be able to explain how she, as a minor, obtained a passport and traveled all over the US and internationally with Epstein if she
did not have the collusion of her parents.
For a minor to obtain a US passport BOTH parents have to sign a consent and documentation regarding guardianship, etc. has
to be presented at immigration control for a minor to enter the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in the company
of someone she is not related to , as she is alleged to have done with Epstein to visit Maxwell's London home.
Colin Wright , says:
Website
August 13, 2019 at 2:07 am GMT
@Lot 'Unproved zero-evidence assumptions:
Epstein was working for Israel, and Israel has compromised many people at just the right parts of the BoP '
Perhaps unproven, but hardly 'zero evidence.'
We have a former premier of Israel photographed slipping into Epstein's mansion, and we have the fact that Epstein himself
was closely associated with Zionist figures such as Wexler, Dershowitz, and Ghislane Maxwell. We have repeated evidence of powerful
friends intervening on Epstein's behalf -- from the interference in the initial investigations back in 2008 to Acosta being told
to back off. Finally, we have the fact that every known Zionist at Unz Review is very concerned to dismiss any possibility of
a connection between Epstein and Israel.
Epstein had access to enormous financial assets -- and only the vaguest explanation of how he came by them. If it wasn't because
he was serving the Zionists, who would you suggest he was serving? Everyone involved is either Jewish, a Zionist, a major advocate
for Israel, or all three. Looking at the evidence, what's your guess
Sean , says:
August 13, 2019 at 9:56 am GMT
@Colin Wright That Ehud Barak the former
Prime Minister and most decorated soldier in Israel and former head of military intelligence as well is too important in Israel
and its image in American politics for Mossad to allow him to be compromised in way he has been.
Ditto Wexler and especially Dershowitz, who are are not the sort of people who would be involved in actually running a covert
operation anyway. And it was not covert, Epstein himself seems to be the origin of the stories that he was gathering compromising
material on VIPs for the purpose of blackmail . He was a smooth talking trickster, but also a narcissist who wanted the world
to know how clever he was. He was on Edge and hanging out with scientists and Harvard professors, an entre he thought worth
donating six million bucks for. Read his wisdom
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/the-wisdom-of-jeffrey-epsteins-edge-foundation-answers.html
He wanted to be Doc Savage
Doc was physically and mentally trained from birth by his father and a team of scientists to become the perfect human specimen
with a genius level intellect. His heightened senses are beyond comprehension. He can identify a woman's perfume from half
a mile away. He is literally the master of everything.
A year ago Epstein was had got so desperate that rather than be ignored he was dipping in the Kool Aid (a prison slang term
meaning intruding into others' interactions) and willing to be known as a blackmailer of VIPs rather that just a rich guy living
the 24 hour party life dream in his Manhattan mansion.
https://www.alternet.org/2019/08/reporter-reveals-that-jeffrey-epstein-claimed-in-confidential-meeting-to-have-dirt-on-powerful-people/
During our conversation, Mr. Epstein made no secret of his own scandalous past -- he'd pleaded guilty to state charges of
soliciting prostitution from underage girls and was a registered sex offender -- and acknowledged to me that he was a pariah
in polite society. At the same time, he seemed unapologetic. His very notoriety, he said, was what made so many people willing
to confide in him. Everyone, he suggested, has secrets and, he added, compared with his own, they seemed innocuous. People
confided in him without feeling awkward or embarrassed, he claimed.
Stewart said he arranged the meeting to discuss Elon Musk's troubled position at Tesla. The company was facing a scandal
over one of the founder's tweets, and Musk was supposedly consulting with Epstein about the matter; Tesla denies this claim
and Epstein reportedly offered no proof. Epstein also claimed, according to Stewart, that "he'd witnessed prominent tech figures
taking drugs and arranging for sex."
Even if Dershowitz was hanging about for the sex, a Mossad controlled Epstein would not have been allowed to have him there.
Dershowitz was too valuable to Israel as a media pundit for risking him in this. And don't tell me a the Israel Lobby could not
have chilled the story in Miami newspaper (Jewish advertisers) about the deal that got all this blowback on Dershowitz. Trump
has given Israel its most sought after diplomatic coups, and Dershowitz is solid rock solid with Trump and Israel. They would
have protected him. In fact they would have smashed the story to protect Trump because he is being mentioned in every story about
Epstein's activities.
Dershowitz says he has never even met Roberts: 'This is a zero sum game. One of us is committing perjury. I'm going to swear
under oath that I never met her.' . A woman who has sex for money is capable of lying for the same reason. Ransome, the other
woman accusing Dershwitz has now admitted lying about having a sex tape of Trump.
We have repeated evidence of powerful friends intervening on Epstein's behalf
There is no denying that Epstein had the ability to win the confidence of important men and get them to do things for him,
but Wexner and Dershowitz got took by Jeremy. The more evidence comes out, the more convinced I am that he was a confidence trickster
with a smooth line in self aggrandizing bullcrap. When it came down to it he did not have the Israel lobby behind him He got taken
down by a the other year by a reporter for a Miami newspaper , and last month he was crying on the floor of a cockroach
infested jail cell while the correctional officers laughed at him.
Epstein had access to enormous financial assets -- and only the vaguest explanation of how he came by them. If it wasn't
because he was serving the Zionists, who would you suggest he was serving?
Himself. An embezzler not using his ill gotten gains for corrupting young girls would be giving grifters a bad name!
https://www.thedailybeast.com/alan-dershowitz-on-new-epstein-docs-virginia-giuffres-email-and-manuscript-show-she-lied-about-sex-with-me
The emails in the court file shows Churcher responded: "Don't forget Alan Dershowitz J.E.'s buddy and lawyer good name for
your pitch." Giuffre's reply [2011] contained no reference to Dershowitz, just a simple, "Thanks again Shazza, I'm bringing
down the house with this book!!"
Twist momma
TheJester , says:
August 13, 2019 at 11:54 am GMT
Jeffery Epstein was not the only one with "intelligence connections" pimping underage girls to the rich and powerful.
The new book by Tom O'Neill, "CHAOS: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties" , details Manson's
connections to the CIA. Manson's specialty was pimping underage girls to celebrities on the Hollywood party circuit. In spite
of being on federal parole and being repeatedly arrested for egregious violations of the law (sex with underage girls, pimping
underage girls, firearms violations, car theft, drug abuse, drug trafficking), Manson was systematically protected by his CIA
controllers. He and his "family" were often back on the street within hours of being arrested.
https://read.amazon.com/kp/card?preview=inline&linkCode=kpd&ref_=k4w_oembed_OcHURyUeqvkZ2V&asin=B07K6J273Q&tag=kpembed-20
CHAOS was an illegal CIA program targeting the American people from 1967 to 1974. (It had counterparts in the FBI COINTELPRO
and the NATO GLADIO programs.) CHAOS was intended to identify, disrupt, and neutralize possible foreign influence on domestic
race, anti-war, and other protest movements. Evidently, Charles Manson played a role in the CIA's attempts to penetrate influential
Hollywood circles opposed to the Vietnam War and/or supporting black radical movements such as the Black Panthers.
Seen in this light, the Tate and LaBianca murders were effective as a "false flag" that discredited the Hippie movement.
As some commentators have concluded:
"The Manson murders sounded the death knell for hippies and all they symbolically represented They closed an era. The 60s,
the decade of love, ended on that night, on 9 August 1969." -- Vincent Bugliosi, 2009
https://galacticconnection.com/how-the-cia-used-charles-manson-to-debunk-entire-60s-hippie-movement-2/
Sean , says:
August 13, 2019 at 1:02 pm GMT
@Steve Sailer Hmm, I have to admit that
is pretty good explanation of Epstein's methods. He pretended to be engaged in regulatory arbitrage (offshore tax dodging) but
he was actually all about social arbitrage (mediating between spheres and apparently establishing a basis for mutual advantage).
He was enabling leadership to span the difference between retail, academicia, law, politics, and punditry, while and introducing
these top people to other big shots gave him extra credibility because they met on his ground. It was all mutually reinforcing,
but the thing was none of these people were qualified to assess him for what he was because he was a finance guy and they were
not. The Wall St people were very suspicious of Epstein because to make serious money in investing you have to be a workaholic
and he never seemed to do anything but party.
I suppose the moral of the story is that when someone has an area of expertise you should trust their gut feeling about any
relevant issue even if they cannot give a logical reason for it. Gigerenzer writes about this and also how formal due diligence
is not a substitute.
Barak: I'm here to find help in solving the Palestinian problem, but I'm cold
Wexner: you call that a lining?
Epstein: you should see my pockets!
BB753 , says:
August 13, 2019 at 1:28 pm GMT
@HA I see you are lazy enough to rely on
the doctored Wikipedia and then ask me for links later. Do your own work. Start with Boystown, so you can understand that trafficking
children is common, then Google for Gunderson and McMartin case.
Sean , says:
August 13, 2019 at 2:24 pm GMT
@Steve Sailer Interesting article that shows
why they call it general intelligence, Jewish businessmen not all being sharks that know only balance sheets, some succeed through
being empathetic.
"He didn't understand the numbers," Lewis said. "He's never understood numbers. This is not his strength. This man is a
genius at dressing women. This is a guy who feels what they feel. That's his strength. And I figured that out when I first
met him and I don't know how he got that set up in his brain but in his soul, he has a sense of how people feel when they wear
his clothing. And that's a gift. That's just what it is. Some guys write music, this guy knows how to dress women. He's very,
very talented."
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/how-jeffrey-epstein-got-his-hooks-into-les-wexner
One of the Selachii persuasion. Sandy Lewis gave Wexner a talk that sounds like Stanley Hoff's rant from The Big Knife,
The conversation had been very frank, and at the end, Wexner asked if there was anything else Lewis wanted to say. In fact,
there was, Lewis recalled. "Get your mother out of her office across the hall," Lewis told him. "Why is she there? Does she
help you run this business or is she just a pain in the ass? I'm pretty direct. And I said, Les, I don't have a good feeling
about this, and your sister too . I was being direct. And he knew what I was saying . You're a good guy, I like you. I don't
sense you as a troubled individual but if you keep your mother around here, God knows what that's doing to you. Get her out
of here. Just forget it."
lysias , says:
August 13, 2019 at 2:53 pm GMT
Bill Clinton sent political advisers like James Carville to Israel in 1999 to assist in Ehud Barak's ultimately successful election
campaign. Perhaps the fact that Barak and Clinton were both Epstein's buddies was significant there.
anastasia , says:
August 13, 2019 at 3:15 pm GMT
@Sean If Epstein is affiliated with "intelligence",
it would be two intelligence organizations from two different countries, one of which would be the US and the other Israel. Both
work together. No jail hierarchy could compete with that. If they wanted him out and wanted his escape from jail covered up, it
would be no problem. No problem at all. Very few had to know.
They say that where Epstein got his money is a mystery. Steven Hoffenberg said that Epstein was a
"currency manipulator" for the CIA. Lynn Forester (Rothchild) wrote Clinton a letter while he was President, and praised the work
of Epstein in "currency stabilization". Epstein was in fact a math genius. His abilities in this regard would not surprise me.
It is clear that Epstein had powerful friends who were able to strong arm a state and federal prosecutor, and get him out of
an otherwise very long jail sentence, at least 20 years. The Florida case was solid, according to the police who complained bitterly
about what the state prosecutor had done and later the federal prosecutor.. There is no way those prosecutors acted within their
own discretion in doing what they did. NO WAY.
Not to see the hidden hand in all this is ridiculous. This Epstein story being played out in the media is "in your face" contemptuous
of all of us.
anon [323]
Disclaimer , says: August 13, 2019
at 8:52 pm GMT
"Pedophiles facing federal criminal charges are at high risk for suicide. It happened in several of my Maryland cases when defendants
were released on bail. Detained pedophiles require special attention. Stopping people from harming themselves is difficult.
https://t.co/YK4buPXmR9"
-- Rod Rosenstein (@RodRosenstein) August 10, 2019
A former inmate in that prison said it was impossible for someone to kill himself considering the layout of the cell. In the
past 20 years (and 20k+ prisoners), only one other person has successfully committed suicide in that prison. The only way I could
see it happening is if the cell for suicide watch inmates was different from the one for ordinary inmates (did the latter have
a window or a bunkbed?).
Further, Epstein only possessed pornographic materials relating to other – powerful – people. He was not a pedophile himself.
There was every expectation that he could have cut a deal in exchange for handing over more information on powerful people.
"Pro-tip: if the word "Mossad" is mentioned, it's a conspiracy theory."
-- Ron Bassilian (R) (@Ron4California) August 10, 2019
Mossad has a long history of assassination, including by suffocation. That is not a conspiracy theory:
"Mahmoud al-Mabhouh was an assassination that took place on 19 January 2010, in a hotel room in Dubai. Al-Mabhouh -- a co-founder
of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas -- was wanted by the Israeli government for the kidnapping and
murder of two Israeli soldiers in 1989 as well as purchasing arms from Iran for use in Gaza; these have been cited as a possible
motive for the assassination His assassination attracted international attention in part due to allegations that it was ordered
by the Israeli government and carried out by Mossad agents holding fake or fraudulently obtained passports from several European
countries and Australia. In March 2010, the British foreign secretary, David Miliband, expelled an Israeli diplomat after the
UK's Serious Organised Crime Agency discovered that Israel had forged copies of British passports. On 24 May, the Australian government
expelled an Israeli diplomat after concluding that there was "no doubt Israel was behind the forgery of four Australian passports"
related to the assassination. Similar action was taken by Ireland. Israel has refused to comment on the accusations that its security
forces were behind the assassination."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahmoud_Al-Mabhouh
anon [204]
Disclaimer , says: August 13, 2019
at 8:59 pm GMT
"psychopaths do not kill themselves never crosses their mind."
Not always true: "Johann 'Jack' Unterweger was an Austrian serial killer who committed murder in several countries After being
convicted of an additional nine murders in 1994, he committed suicide in prison by hanging himself."
Although in Unterweger's case, he only killed himself AFTER conviction. Smooth-talking charismatic psychopaths usually think
they can beat the system until it becomes obvious they cannot. In that light, I'd say Epstein's death is suspicious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Unterweger
"The Post article said they looked for media reports of suicide and found only one other. How many didn't become news?"
Probably very few if they couldn't find any evidence of them. The is a NYC newspaper in the heart of the nation's largest city
with impressive access compared to most sources in nearly any red state.
"Unproved zero-evidence assumptions: Epstein was working for Israel, and Israel has compromised many people at just the right
parts of the BoP."
The weight of the evidence certainly suggests that he was working for Israel. He had ties to the daughter of a famous Mossad
agent, he met with former Israeli PM Ehud Barak (whom he also had business dealings with in Israel – perfect front to launder
money beyond the reach of American regulators), he was pals with a prominent and deeply-connected Israel-first billionaire Les
Wexner (who is now claiming Epstein swindled him out of up to $500 million – pure BS), his source of income was mysterious and
ill-defined, he had lots of dirt on lots of powerful people in a scam eerily reminiscent of your classic honeypot operation and
former labor secretary Alexander Acosta directly stated that he was told to lay off because Epstein was "intelligence" etc etc
etc.
"But this hyper-competent group lacked the competence to stop him from being charged, or to at least get a heads up and bump
him off outside before he was arrested, or to get him to disappear to Brazil or Paraguay."
Well, they succeeded the first time. If Acosta hadn't personally intervened, the Florida attorneys would have let him off with
nothing. That's why Acosta's office got involved in the first place. Paraphrasing "they wanted no charges [Florida state] and
we thought that was unacceptable". By all accounts, Epstein's interment was unusually light, to the point where one official has
stated that he was surprised they made Epstein do any time at all; Epstein slept there at night and was allowed to leave during
the day to go to his job. Further, Acosta himself was accused of breaking the law in his effort to let Epstein skate – after he
was told to lay off because he's "intelligence" that is. That intelligence is most likely Mossad. There was an obvious cover up
here, and it very nearly succeeded.
HA , says:
August 14, 2019 at 12:42 am GMT
@BB753 "I see you are lazy enough to
rely on the doctored Wikipedia"
It's at least something. You're so lazy you can't even be bothered to do that -- what does that tell you?To the extent all
this was doctored, it's curious that they had to wait five years while Buckey sat in prison as convicted Satanist pedophile. That
must have been some picnic, but hey, who cares about that, right? We have to think of the children, after all.
"you can understand that trafficking children is common"
What? I don't need convincing that trafficking children happens in shocking numbers, and if you have to start putting words
in my mouth to make your case, what does that tell you about how stupid your case was to begin with? But guess what? -- murder
is common, too. That still doesn't mean that every accused person is guilty, especially if the main witness is mentally ill and
claims the defendant can fly through the air. Are you saying people flying through the air and getting flushed down magical toilets
are a common occurrence too? If so, that would explain the rest of your posts.
If you look at, say, "Operation Cathedral/Wonderland/The Orchid Club", involving over a hundred pedophiles in over a dozen
countries and 1200 victims (there's a plenty long wikipedia page on that, too) you'll find plenty of actual evidence that no one
has since bothered to deny or retract, i.e. evidence that doesn't defy the basic laws of physics. How is it that Wikipedia managed
to keep that up without the Illuminati or the lizard people or Mossad shutting (or whoever) shutting that down?
Lastly, if you actually bothered to read the wikipedia page I linked to, they do have an extensive section on the archaeologist
that the parents hired to try and find the "secret tunnels". He did claim to find something, but the subsequent excavation found
a sewer pipe with stuff dating from the 60's, on top of an undisturbed concrete slab, if I'm reading that correctly. Another source
says that Stickel and Gunderson worked together:
Parents hired former FBI agent Ted L. Gunderson, who worked as a private investigator, and archeologist Gary Stickel to
aid in the dig. Gunderson claimed he found a "subterranean opening, " under one classroom, and another underneath a bathroom.
Gunderson said that the "tunnel" may have been dug by a utility company, according to the news service UPI Investigators had
used sonar trying to detect "soft spots" under the building's foundation, which possibly could indicate hollow areas, according
to the Los Angeles Times. However, no conclusive evidence was ever found at the site. On Aug. 1, 1990, all charges against
Ray Buckey were dismissed after a second jury become deadlocked on eight counts of child molestation against him.
Yeah, real slam dunk argument you got going there. I'm sure in another week or two they would have likewise found the magic
flush-toilets and the secret underground lair where Chuck Norris keeps his pedophile dungeons right next to the records of how
he and Bigfoot killed the Kennedys.
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Jeffrey Epstein's Death, Critical Thinking, and the Decline of Reporting Posted on
August 14, 2019 by Yves Smith It's ironic to hear the FBI
whinge about conspiracy theories as a danger to public safety, yet see the officialdom, and
even the press, handle the untimely death of Jeffrey Epstein in a manner almost guaranteed to
maximize salacious interest and speculation.
The reason we are straying from our normal topics of interest to discuss Epstein is that the
overarching mission of this website is to promote critical thinking. If you've been paying
attention to news, it too often feels as if you've entered an informational hall of mirrors.
Not only is the spin so heavy that it takes careful reading to separate information from
innuendo, but with the rise in social media, the reaction to a news story often overwhelm the
underlying event. For instance, witness the consternation about Bernie Sanders making a
reasonable observation about the Washington Post's coverage of his campaign, that it's biased
against him and Jeff Bezos' ownership of the Post might have something to do with that. The
indignant howls were a reminder of where the class interests of the press now lie.
With Epstein's apparent suicide, it's striking how none of the responsible adults have
attempted to manage the press. Normally, in no less than 36 hours after an event like this,
Someone Official holds a press conference. Even if they wind up saying almost nothing
substantive, they make solemn reassurances about They Will Get to the Bottom of Things, and
better yet, with some detail about the process ("The autopsy will be conducted by the office of
X. We expect to receive a report by Y date, and to make key details public by Z date.") Why
hasn't a such a basic move happened? It certainly suggests that the DoJ was caught with its
pants down, and perhaps also that there has been serious turf war among the parties responsible
for Epstein's custody. (Attorney General William Barr
did make some brief comments on the Epstein matter at a previously scheduled "law enforcement
conference" in New Orleans ).
There are more anomalies that reflect poorly on the caliber of reporting on this case, and
we'll highlight a few in the hopes that readers will discuss others. The coverage has had an
epic level of opinion and fluff at the expense o gumshoe work to get at facts. Here it is, four
days after Epstein's demise, and there's no timeline, no schematic of the prison, no details
about what his cell was like. The closest we have is a single-source story from the New York
Post, from a former inmate in the very same "9 South" cellblock for high-profile cases. This
account curiously did not appear to lead to further investigation of these claims by Post or
other venues. They should be verifiable or debunkable with interviews of other former inmates
or guards, or alternatively, the slower route of FOIAs on the prison's design and policies.
Key parts of the August 10 article , which ran less than 12 hours after the time Epstein
was found unresponsive in his cell:
There's no way that man could have killed himself. I've done too much time in those units.
It's an impossibility.
Between the floor and the ceiling is like 8 or 9 feet. There's no way for you to connect
to anything.
You have sheets, but they're paper level, not strong enough. He was 200 pounds -- it would
never happen .
Could he have done it from the bed? No sir. There's a steel frame, but you can't move it.
There's no light fixture. There's no bars.
They don't give you enough in there that could successfully create an instrument of death.
You want to write a letter, they give you rubber pens and maybe once a week a piece of
paper.
Nothing hard or made of metal.
This source also said those cells had one or two occupants, and he was skeptical of the idea
that a guy like Epstein would have been housed with anyone else. So if this account is
accurate, it makes the idea of taking Epstein off suicide watch seem like less of a stretch
because there weren't suicide makings in a regular cell or with regular prison garb. But the
lack of camera monitoring of the cell proper ( reported
by the Post ) lends itself to speculation about alternative scenarios like the prison
version of assisted suicide.
It's important to be skeptical of single sourced accounts, as well as recognizing that more
detailed accounts are seen as more credible, so the Post example is particularly appealing. But
where are the other accounts? Why the lack of press probing into the routines for that prison?
Has the New York Times abandoned its tradition of having reporters start out on the Metro Desk,
doing gumshoe work on things like fires and babies in dumpsters?
Another striking anomaly came when the New York Times reported that one of the two Epstein
guards was a temp assigned from another job at the facility. The Times had earlier reported on
this practice as a response to under-staffing:
One of the two people guarding Jeffrey Epstein when he apparently hanged himself in a
federal jail cell was not a full-fledged correctional officer, and neither guard had checked
on Mr. Epstein for several hours before he was discovered, prison and law-enforcement
officials said .
No correctional officer had checked on Mr. Epstein for several hours before he was found,
even though guards were supposed to look in on prisoners in the protective unit where he was
housed every half-hour
This story has a single source reporting that Epstein hung himself with a bedsheet.
Today the Times reported that t
he two guards were sleeping for three hours and falsified records and the Associated Press
added that the surveillance cameras showed the guards didn't makes the rounds .
This is fine as far as it goes, but it is awfully thin gruel relative to the questions
swirling over the weekend, like why the apparent considerable gap of time (by the standards of
emergencies) between when Epstein was found and
when he was wheeled into to the hospital an hour later ? 1
And then there's the bizarre show of the raid on Epstein's island. Was that displacement
activity? If it was an important target, why after he was dead and not earlier?
This is a long-winded way of saying that I hope readers will identify other issues with what
the public knows and doesn't know about Epstein's death, with attention to the caliber of the
information behind what the press has reported and where there are gaps. If the government
wants to put paid to some of the wilder theories, like Epstein's death was a Mossad rendition
(either on site or via extraction), coughing up more information would be a good place to
start.
____
1 I am putting this in a footnote due to its speculative nature. A colleague who
claims to know the operation of the Downtown Hospital says emergency arrivals never go in this
way. The ambulance backs up and the gurney is hauled out and there's no vantage point for a
shot like this one. The prominent signs would make one think this contact has it wrong, so I
will leave this for any readers familiar with this facility to pipe up.
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PlutoniumKun ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:39 am
As you suggest, the lack of real reportage is striking – it seems very few
journalists seem to know how to actually report stories anymore. Last year I read Seymour
Hersh's great memoir 'Reporter'. While its clear from what he said there was no true 'Golden
Age' for reporters – there was always interference – it seems the balance has
fundamentally changed to managers, not reporters in media outlets pretty much everywhere. The
fact that Hersh himself has been confined to fringe publications says all you really need to
know. 30 years ago Hersh or one of his contemporaries would be all over this story and
worming out every possible morsel of information.
I was watching a clip on Joe Rogan yesterday and he mentioned how one of his arch sceptic
friend was dismissive of any kind of 'conspiracy theory' for Epsteins death. 'Paedo commits
suicide before trial' is hardly news. But to go to our old friend, Occams Razor, this is
really one case where a convoluted murder of some type actually makes far more sense than a
story of suicide. His death is just too convenient and the apparent sloppiness of the prison
authorities makes no sense for such a very high profile prisoner.
Clive ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:22 am
But why?
In descending order of "least helpful to a whole lot of people", we have four possible
states for Epstein:
1) Dead -- through a genuine suicide
2) Dead -- through some sort of foul play (that will need to be kept covered up, but at
least that's only a one-time event so isn't a dynamic and unpredictable situation)
3) Alive, still, but earmarked for being killed later once some ulterior purpose has been
served such as information obtained -- but why not do this in the Metropolitan Correctional
Center (or move him to another facility such as a "hospital") first, why such a
ridiculously convoluted and thereby risky subterfuge?
4) Alive with an intention of keeping him that way, but having to be kept -- permanently,
with virtually limitless possibilities for discovery -- out of sight in a perpetual
conspiracy.
Going back to the original request in the post -- critical thinking skills need to be
applied. What you're suggesting doesn't make sense on anything than a "god awful cock up"
basis and even then, an elimination-then-clean-up operation would soon have been put into
action. To put it more succinctly, even if he was alive, he'd be dead now.
Tom ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:10 am
The argument for Epstein still being alive is that he would have set up a dead-man switch,
a mechanism so that if he dies then the evidence he has on others is automatically published.
Seems like a reasonable precaution to take.
If that's the case then the conspirators that need to prevent the evidence becoming public
need to stop the trial and prevent his death. Hence the idea that they staged an
apparent suicide with a body double and got Epstein safely outta there.
So the hypothesis goes.
Clive ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:25 am
Then you get a tame judge assigned (and that's nothing new, even Johnny Carson used to
joke "do you know how bad the economy is these days?" [sidekick] "no, Johnny, just how bad is
the economy?" "it's so bad, organised crime has had to lay off 5 judges this week ") to let
Epstein off with a slap on the wrist, a year at the Four Seasons low security penitentiary
and early release through time served.
Much simpler than any of the other notions and achieves exactly the same result (Epstein
is subject to "the full force of the law" but stays happily alive to tell the tale and keep
his finger off the Dead Mans Switch).
If you were in charge of all this, which solution would you try first? If you've ever
worked in a big, but incompetent, organisation (and if they're big, they're almost certainly
going to be incompetence personified), you wouldn't even need to ask yourself that
question.
Clive ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:25 am
Then you get a tame judge assigned (and that's nothing new, even Johnny Carson used to
joke "do you know how bad the economy is these days?" [sidekick] "no, Johnny, just how bad is
the economy?" "it's so bad, organised crime has had to lay off 5 judges this week ") to let
Epstein off with a slap on the wrist, a year at the Four Seasons low security penitentiary
and early release through time served.
Much simpler than any of the other notions and achieves exactly the same result (Epstein
is subject to "the full force of the law" but stays happily alive to tell the tale and keep
his finger off the Dead Mans Switch).
If you were in charge of all this, which solution would you try first? If you've ever
worked in a big, but incompetent, organisation (and if they're big, they're almost certainly
going to be incompetence personified), you wouldn't even need to ask yourself that
question.
Tom ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:56 pm
Tame judge would be the best option were it available. I don't think it was. That wasn't
going to work again. If a judicial process were to proceed it would need to be seen to be a
proper trial.
Clive ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:15 pm
Someone's never heard of Xavier Becerra. And he's not that bad, considering some of
the others operating in the US. As for " [if a] judicial process were to proceed it would
need to be seen to be a proper trial " I wish I could share your sense of optimism -- most
casual observers would be happy to have seen Epstein paraded around in an orange jumpsuit and
being manhandled by the cops on the steps of the courtroom, besieged by, ah-hem, "the press".
Once out the limelight and following his (second) 15 minutes of infamy, few would have cared
about the inner workings of any trial, the sentence or what happened after any (inevitably
early) release.
Incidentally and unrelated, but I can't help to mention it, simply because Becerra's a
moment ago had the temerity to tweet "I've got the backs of the people of California", to
which I can only retort: yes, that's just so you can knife them in it.
False Solace ,
August 14, 2019 at 3:44 pm
They did indeed try the "tame judge" option first -- in Florida. Quite a sweetheart
deal.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:36 pm
How can the conspirators keep the information from becoming public? The prosecutors have
over a million pages of documents. It is not inconceivable that Congresscritters could demand
that that be handed over to the private plaintiffs suing his estate. Or they could discover
it independently, admittedly at their cost.
PKMKII ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:20 am
There is one scenario in which "Epstein was extracted and still alive" makes sense, which
is if he had a dead man's switch somewhere that would dump all the incriminating information
on the doorstep of every major media outlet if he died. In that case, whoever extracted him
would want him alive to prevent the dead man's switch from being activated while removing the
possibility of the case going to trial.
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:21 am
Epstein and Maxwell were running a sophisticated blackmail operation targeting the most
powerful people in the Western world. If this *was* a Mossad operation, and he an operative,
then they would have motive to try to extract and relocate him, probably to Israel or South
America, under a new identity. You can't easily recruit future deep cover agents if you leave
somebody like Epstein hanging out to dry.
Not saying this is what happened. I have no idea what happened.
Also PKMKII raises another possibility that is just as likely. Though I think Epstein was
clearly linked with Mossad / CIA in some way.
Adding to Yves' post above, How come no journalist has asked Acosta to clarify or expound
upon what he meant by saying that he could not prosecute Epstein because "he belonged to
intelligence". That's pretty explicit right there.
Katniss Everdeen ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:50 am
epstein was in Europe. He was arrested at the airport upon his return to the u.s. Five
weeks later he's dead. Chaos ensues.
If someone wanted to disappear/kill him, wouldn't it be less messy and noisy to do it from
there?
What I'd like to know is why he came back in the first place. What was he expecting (or
not expecting)? The feds met him at the airport and he never saw the light of day after that.
Didn't I read that, upon seeing the authorities at the airport, he tried to jump back on the
plane before surrendering?
I'd like to see someone go to Paris and interview whoever he was hanging out with there to
find out what was going on.
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:18 am
I did not read about Epstein jumping back on the plane.
I think it very probable that he knew in advance he was going to be arrested. See the
history of the prior trial for precedent.
Why did the Feds arrest him now? Maybe to distract from the media scandal surrounding his
earlier deal? To save face etc?
That is the most prosaic answer I think. Certainly there didn't seem to be any real
urgency about him until the details of his prior deal and the subsequent civil lawsuit were
made known.
Acacia ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:06 am
Agree with WJ on that.
More here:
Why
Did Jeffrey Epstein Fly Back To The US?
He thought he had a deal. After all, he got a pretty good one from Acosta before. But then
things went wrong.
Or did they?
J7915 ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:37 am
Maybe the question should be: who met him at the plane?
This sounds like a b-movie based on The Broker by Grisham and sub-plots from varius other
authors, Furst, Kerr et al.
Maybe not far fetched, all good novels seem to have a fact to hang the plot on.
Leroy ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:49 am
I'd like to see somebody, anybody, tell me the truth !! I would NEVER believe any person
even remotely connected to this government, least of all, Billy Barr. We are experiencing
rampant corruption in this government so the constant pointing at Bill Clinton is very
curious eh ? If and when we ever do get to find the truth, it will not be from anyone
connected to this nefarious character. I'll trust an inmate first, then demand a rebuttal
from another inmate.
pretzelattack ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:52 am
i don't find the finger pointing at clinton curious, since he was a frequent flier on the
lolita express.
Harold ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:26 pm
The NY Times described the data on the flight manifests as something reported by Fox News,
as though it were unreliable gossip not fact. Maxwell's presence at Chelsea's wedding also
goes unmentioned. The coverup seems to be aimed at protecting the Clintons.
False Solace ,
August 14, 2019 at 3:49 pm
The Clintons aren't in power. Meanwhile we have photos and video of the current POTUS
partying with Epstein and documentation of them throwing parties with multiple women at Mar a
Lago.
Harold ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:02 pm
You see? Clintons have a lot more to lose. Also Obama who supported them.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:42 pm
*Sigh* We linked to Ilargi on the extent of the Trump-Epstein connection. Very thin, and
also stale. It should be noted that Epstein started procuring younger women as he got
older.
https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2019/08/epstein-or-how-your-news-is-cooked/
And the Clintons were in power when Acosta cut the deal with Epstein. Hillary was a
Senator running for President.
Pookah Harvey ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:23 pm
Barr's father hired Epstein to teach mathematics at Manhattan's prestigious Dalton School
that gave Epstein his first access to the elite. From reports Epstein seemed unqualified for
the position. This seems puzzling. AG Barr previously worked for Kirkland & Ellis, a law
firm that represented Epstein during the Florida investigation. Acosta was the prosecuting
attorney in that case.
The AG's office has announced that Barr will recuse himself from the Acosta investigation but
not from the Epstein investigation. This seems very puzzling as Barr has only a distant
professional association with Acosta but both professional and personal association with
Epstein.
kiwi ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:44 pm
It's a small world.
My dad was in Russia (Sakhalin island) for a year or two for work around 1999. It turned
out that his Russian interpreter was a friend of my co-workers' husband. The husband and the
interpreter had met when the husband was in Viet Nam (if I recall the country correctly)
during the Reagan era.
All of us (me, my Dad, the couple) are just your standard issue white caucasians here in
the US.
Harold ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:45 pm
According to what I read on this site, Epstein gave Dalton the impression he had studied
at Stanford. He was hired something like a month before Donald Barr resigned (or was fired),
during a chaotic period when they were short of teachers, and did most of his teaching after
Barr had left (I don't have the exact dates). In anycase, the connection is not as clear as
it might appear. Epstein seems to have been more popular with the parents than with the other
teachers. It certainly is suggestive, though, that Barr wrote that Science Fiction book
featuring sex slaves.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:44 pm
It was reported in Vanity Fair that Epstein confessed to his sponsor at Bear Stearns,
Michael Tennenbaum (who was a heavyweight at Bear) that he'd lied about his CV, that he never
went to Stanford as he claimed.
That makes it seem probable that Epstein also lied to Dalton about his credentials.
Harold ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:59 pm
How come no journalist has asked Acosta to clarify or expound upon what he meant by
saying that he could not prosecute Epstein because "he belonged to intelligence".
Also, who was it, exactly, that told Acosta, Epstein "belonged to intelligence" and was
"above his [Acosta's] paygrade," and why did Acosta listen to them?
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:49 pm
A guy like Acosta has bosses. I had taken the intelligence claim as one of the few things
someone higher up could say to Acosta to get him to stand down that Acosta could not
challenge.
There are also tons of people who are deemed to be "intelligence assets" who aren't in the
employ of a spy organization but do occasional helpful things, like tell a spook too much
about what is going on at their employer. So this is hardly black and white.
flora ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:22 am
Epstein had started talking to an author a year ago, according the the Rolling Stone story
in today's links:
What is known is that with his stash of mystery money he built a wired-up sybaritic
paradise for horny powerful men, stocked with sexually groomed young girls and women. He
then became a keeper of their secrets, as he bragged to author James B. Stewart last
year. "The overriding impression I took away from our roughly 90-minute conversation was
that Mr. Epstein knew an astonishing number of rich, famous and powerful people, and had
photos to prove it," Stewart wrote in the New York Times. "He also claimed to know a great
deal about these people, some of it potentially damaging or embarrassing, including details
about their supposed sexual proclivities and recreational drug use."
Bragging about knowing the secrets of the powerful . Was he becoming unreliable? Dead men
tell no tails, as the saying goes. This is speculation on my part.
Colonel Smithers ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:47 am
Thank you, Flora.
Further to the Rolling Stone link about Ghislaine Maxwell, one wonders if Australian and
British taxpayer money donated to the Clinton Foundation was used to fund projects the
Clinton and Ghislaine Maxwell foundations ran together until the latter's Terra Mar
Foundation was wound up.
British journalists I have spoken to are reluctant to investigate as they fear the Clinton
machine and / or want to ingratiate themselves on the related circuit.
Harold ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:03 pm
That Epstein and his lawyers claimed (as part of his defense in 2008) to have been
responsible for helping to set up the Clinton Global Initiative and to have contributed seed
money to it, along with his setting up "charitable" foundations for other prominent
billionaires is surprisingly absent from recent official accounts. Does anyone know any more
about this?
Colonel Smithers ,
August 14, 2019 at 3:48 pm
Thank you, Harold.
Unfortunately, I don't, but I am aware of these so called charities using Canadian
structures to avoid transparency and tax obligations.
mpalomar ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:11 pm
How reliable is a guy who names his flying rape crib the Lolita Express? Epstein seemingly
has made a successful career of criminal behaviour because much of society is deeply
corrupt.
As we watch the Bilderbergers and Davos men and women in action I can't help but think of the
joke about the aristocrats.
toshiro_mifune ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:43 am
There is also option 5;
5) He is both alive and dead at the same time until we observe him and collapse the wave
function.
Apologies, I've been re-reading stuff on quantum mechanics lately and its on the
brain.
Clive ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:18 am
Ha! Schrödinger's pimp! You don't know if you're going to get lucky until you see the
body and make a positive ID through dental records or DNA testing. Or something.
susan the other` ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:59 pm
a keeper. shroedingers pimp perp too.
Summer ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:59 am
With the all powerful connections that would have to be employed to do such a "fake
death," why wouldn't they have used those connections to prevent, from behind the scenes, the
resurgence of charges? He already had the sweet heart deal. It would have been out of the
limelight to force the continuation of that deal.
Jesper ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:21 am
Of the theories floating around that one is my favourite. Next one might be about why his
place was searched only after his death – flying there with the search-team might be a
good way of transporting him to his island .
I'm not sure why Epstein returned to the US, possibly some very big miscalculations about
where he'd be held if he even considered the risk of being arrested. So far the story is that
he voluntarily returned to the US where he then was arrested (surprisingly?) and then he
committed suicide.
Based on his history then I don't see him as dumb nor do I see him as anything but a
(somewhat dirty) fighter and survivor.
James ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:26 am
You're half way there. The return and arrest was part of the process of eliminating the
"Jeffrey Epstein" asset, who had served his purposes and was to be retired. The whole arrest,
imprisonment, and suicide shtick was an elaborate ruse to establish that Jeffrey Epstein is
no more, RIP, we barely knew ye. From there, he could have been spirited back to Lolita
Island as part of the raid, or that could have just been more storyboarding in support of the
larger ruse, either way the real Jeffrey Epstein (will you please stand up!) was whisked away
to have plastic surgery and a new identity established (if there wasn't one waiting already)
and a new life elsewhere as a well remunerated kept man for the rest of his days. He was of
course a CIA/MI6/Mossad operative for all of his days thus far, so that's for life and will
never change, although his activity level will probably decrease considerably from here on
out. In the end, Epstein was little more than a small cog – albeit a vitally important
one – in a much larger intelligence gathering and sting operation, as compromise is
what makes the world go 'round in DC and international politics. Job well done Jeffrey!
Susan the other` ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:06 pm
Robert Maxwell also died under strange circumstances. Found floating next to his yacht.
Not to be too ghoulish, but I'd like to see a few official photos of the dead Mr. Epstein. He
had such a distinctive, long, bony face it would be hard to find a convincing
doppleganger.
polecat ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:41 pm
FX can be a wonderous thing to behold .. Holywooden does it all the time ! ';]
Elizabeth ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:51 pm
James, this is my tinfoil belief also – the question as to why he returned to the
U.S. has never been asked (by the lamestream press) – much less answered. With all his
powerful connections, surely someone could have tipped him off as to what was waiting for
him. But, what if this was all part of the plan -to get arrested, thrown in jail, and then
"commit suicide" – it all kind of fits to me. When I read the FBI raided his Virgin
Island property, I thought the FBI probably flew him back there. Why raid the place now
– it could have been done years ago.
The narrative we're asked to believe defies credulity. It's as if it's being made up as
something new every day. Also, why has it taken so long to get the autopsy results? If he
hanged himself, it would seem that the hanging evidence would be evident. Maybe they're
waiting for a "tox screen" which takes about 6 weeks. Conspiracy theories will flourish until
believable, evidential, material presents itself. I won't hold my breath..
Katniss Everdeen ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:09 am
"Lack of real reportage" is not really accurate. Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald
has doggedly pursued this since the 2008 sham plea deal. Conchita Sarnoff is an investigative
journalist who wrote a book on epstein called TrafficKing , and recently called
bullshit on bill clinton's claim to "only" have taken four flights on the Lolita Express. And
of course there's Whitney Webb.
There's plenty of "real reportage," just not in what's generally considered "mainstream"
media, which, as with Russiagate, defines and controls the narrative parameters. This just
makes it easier to characterize inconvenient info that happens to slip out as "conspiracy
theory," muddying the waters until control can be regained or public attention refocused.
And "refocusing" is what's in the process of happening right now. Rather than interviewing
Julie Brown or Conchita Sarnoff or Whitney Webb non-stop about what epstein and the rest
actually did in full view of TPTB, we're now being told that the issue really is overworked,
"sleeping" guards and other "irregularities" at the prison leading to a suicide.
flora ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:32 am
This just makes it easier to characterize inconvenient info that happens to slip out as
"conspiracy theory," muddying the waters until control can be regained or public attention
refocused.
Good point. Ray McGovern in a Consortium News article makes the same point re reporting
about the Seth Rich murder:
"Conspiracy Theorists
"Simply letting the name "Seth Rich" pass your lips can condemn you to the leper colony
built by the Washington Establishment for "conspiracy theorists," (the term regularly
applied to someone determined to seek tangible evidence, and who is open to alternatives
[explainations] to "Russia-did-it.")
"That epithet has a sordid history in the annals of U.S. intelligence. Legendary CIA
Director Allen Dulles used the "brand-them-conspiracy-theorists" ploy following the
assassination of President John F. Kennedy when many objected -- understandably -- to letting
him pretty much run the Warren Commission , . The "conspiracy theorist" tactic worked like a
charm then, and now. Well, up until just now."
https://consortiumnews.com/2019/08/12/ray-mcgovern-richs-ghost-haunts-the-courts/
flora ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:37 am
shorter: the "brand-them-as-conspiracy-theorists" ploy [ridicule] is used to shut down
reasonable questioning by reporters and others, imo.
PlutoniumKun ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:25 am
Just to clarify, when I said 'lack of real reportage' I was referring to Epsteins death,
not the previous allegations against him. The key point is that the media seem content to sit
back and comment, rather than do real work in investigating the death (although to be fair,
its early days, so maybe some stories will be dug up).
But even then, the fact that only a handful of brave journalists went after Epstein,
despite it being such a big juicy story is telling. Brown was reported as saying her police
contacts were tired of telling journalists about Epstein, every story seemed to get
buried.
polecat ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:47 pm
Who's to say that some higher ups within the MSM are not Also implicated in the scheme of
All things Epstein
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:52 pm
You are off base. I suggest you bone up on your reading skills.
This post is about his death, as the headline and opening sentence make clear. Your
references are to reporting before he died.
calltoaccount ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:27 pm
Below is original NY Post editorial comment with photo, and further reference to several
challenges to authenticity of the photo and the whole suicide story.
Dubious sources perhaps, but looks like the NYPost photo is definitely a phony.
If Epstein was, in fact, intel agent for Mossad, not so far-fetched they (with help) would
have liberated him with suicide cover story.
https://nypost.com/2019/08/11/epsteins-death-stinks-and-other-commentary/
3rd party commentaries with comparison photos:
http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/blockbuster-secondary-confirmation-epstein-is-not-dead-jim-stone
Harry ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:23 pm
Totally agree. A man who appeared to run a photo agency for politicians and their young
"girlfriends" (?) is likely to have had exactly the right "currency" on hand to obtain
leniency. He certainly did the first time he was brought to justice to "answer" for his
crimes.
What led him to despair this time?
horostam ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:41 am
this is 100% speculation, but what if it was a sex thing? He was prolly a sex addict,
maybe he needed to strangle himself or whatever to get off and the guards let him cause they
were tired of watching him masturbating all day or whatever
i know it sounds like a joke but im serious.. would explain the previous incident from
weeks earlier too
William Peterson ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:27 am
The clinical term you may be looking for is "auto-erotic asphyxiation." In laymans terms
perhaps "gasper."
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:53 pm
"Scarfing".
https://cpyu.org/resource/what-you-need-to-know-about-scarfing/
mle in detroit ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:40 am
I haven't ddg'd for links to support this, but I recall that 20-30 years ago,more than one
British MP accidentally became dead just this way. It's not a joke.
John A ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:46 am
The British MP you refer to was Stephen Milligan. There are various 'conspiracy theories'
that Milligan was murdered by MI6, and that a calling card of British intelligence murders is
dressing the victim to appear to have engaged in some sex game gone wrong.
Ian Perkins ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:58 am
In a cell designed to prevent suicide, with paper-like sheets, and no way to reach the
ceiling which had nothing to tie anything to, he accidentally found a way while trying to
pleasure himself?
Ian Perkins ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:21 am
Oh. See Lee's 7:32 am comment below.
Lydia Marie Child ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:55 am
Tried to add a couple links to two recent episodes of Chapo Trap House, which take deep
dives into this Epstein affair. Probably censored out again, as ALL of my posts here are. Not
even sure why I bother anymore
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:59 am
You comments are not "censored" and that claim shows you have not bothered reading our
site Policies. Had you done so, you would know that complaining about moderation earns you
troll points. I've never seen your name in moderation, evah. Using multiple handles and
e-mail addresses is a fast track to having our software treat you as a spammer, and we don't
go rummaging in our thousands of spam messages a day to hoist out one or two bona fide
comments. So if you've been doing that, you have no one but yourself to blame for your
comments not appearing.
Lydia Marie Child ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:02 am
Ok fine, and thanks for the response. Why not just allow the post to appear then?
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:20 am
You are making clear that you refuse to read our Policies. If you keep that up, I will put
you in moderation.
Arizona Slim ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:11 am
FWIW, there are times when my comments are greeting by that "awaiting moderation" box.
So, what does this slender Arizonan do? Well, I go and wash the dishes, take a walk, work
in the yard, and, maybe-just-maybe, take a nap.
And, lo and behold, when I return to the NC site, there's my comment.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:37 am
Similar experience here in da North American Deep South.
Jonathan Holland Becnel ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:55 pm
Same
-From Dat Dirty Coast, yah herrrd me!!
tegnost ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:42 am
+1, that's what I do also. Don't train the algo to be wary of you and especially don't
whinge, the moderation is beneficial to the content.
pretzelattack ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:49 am
same, especially the nap part.
Ian Perkins ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:28 pm
I've stopped using the embedded link facility (between italics & quote, at the top of
the commenting box) as I often get the "awaiting moderation" thing, but unlike Arizona Slim,
my comment does not appear, even a day later.
Simply pasting the whole link into the comment looks a bit uglier, but works.
Anon ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:54 pm
Links are usually always moderated, it seems, in my experience. Learning how to format the
link in the comment properly is a skill.
Ian Perkins ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:41 pm
So give us a clue: how do we format it properly?
I'd been clicking on the link icon thingy, and pasting my link where it says http:// . Should
I be doing something else?
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:54 pm
That is false. Do not spread disinformation.
polecat ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:54 pm
Some days, mine drift over to moderation purgatory .. never to make it up onto the comment
mountain peak I don't whing – I just roll another comment boulder back uphill while
changing my footing.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 3:58 pm
I don't think it would be possible to avoid the civil suits, there are too many victims
out there, any of whom could decide to get a lawyer and start a case at any time.
I don't think the idea that Mossad could have been involved in Epstein's death to be that
crazy. Epstein had connections to Israel, and I believe there were Israeli men on some of his
"Lolita express" junkets.
The lack of reporting is indeed striking, the lid is definitely being kept on this it
would seem. Nor is it a stretch that he was an intelligence asset, either for the US or
Israel, or both. Having dirt on powerful people is the best way to control them. Why would
elites want a politician that they couldn't control? It's not like it hasn't been done before
the J. Edgar Hoover school of operations.
ChiGal in Carolina ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:42 am
thanks for pointing us in the direction of CTH.
Bob ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:56 am
Mr. Epstein's career and life pursuits were odd.
From here the official responses appear to be designed to confuse and to muddle the facts.
As far as the FBI raid on Mr. Epstein's island, I expect this is to clean up loose ends. And
of course the FBI will use the standard play book – "We never comment on an ongoing
investigation." This is of course a lie or a commonly used deflection. This tactic often used
by the FBI to cover up or to hide embarassing evidence.
Here are some possible avenues –
1) Mr. Acosta and his team of DOJ lawyers could be disbarred since the Florida office of
the DOJ violated federal law in not reporting the terms of the settlement to the victims. A
Federal judge clearly mentioned that Mr. Acosta violated the law. This is a felony. Note that
any ordinary citizen can file a complaint with the Florida Bar.
2) An argument can be made that since the DOJ team broke Federal law that the terms of the
settlement are null and void. It follows that the immunity from prosecution agreement is null
and void. This means that the folks that received immunity could be prosecuted.
3) The FAA should revoke the pilot licenses of the pilots of the Mr. Epstein's aircraft since
the pilots broke the Mann Act knowingly and repeatedly.
What will really happen –
Expect the waters will continue to be muddied and muddled. And no one least of all the
victims will see an end to this case. Instead it will be left to stink and rot in some
forgotten corner.
Lydia Marie Child ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:09 am
One of the more chilling comments I've heard a few days ago was in regards to the victims
and accusers of Epstein and his elite pervert friends. Basically: are any of them in danger,
too? Anyone following this disgusting tale understands that that isn't a far-fetched idea.
Just look at all the activists in Ferguson, MO who have all been "mysteriously" found dead of
late and that's a pretty small-scale story in comparison.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:03 pm
I would guess that the murders (which is likely what they are) of activists in Ferguson
may have been committed by local police. Whoever is killing those people has a good
understanding of rules of evidence. One activist was burned to death in his car as I recall.
I haven't seen where any journalist has been investigating or attempting to link any of those
deaths, does anyone have any links to anything like that?
Steve H. ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:14 am
The reporting pushes the idea that Acosta was turfed out for the Epstein deal. I'd say he
was turfed in for it. He got turfed out for being quoted that he was told Epstein 'belonged
to intelligence.'
Heraclitus ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:22 am
Acosta had two explanations for not contacting the victims about the settlement. Both were
good ones, IMO. One was that the state scheduled the signing on a Monday after the agreement
was reached on Thursday or Friday. This left little time, and the timing was of the signing
was not necessarily up to the Feds. They didn't want Epstein to balk at signing the deal, and
that was a risk if they gave him more time. His lawyers had walked away many times during the
process.
The other explanation was that, if Acosta had informed the victims about the full
settlement, which included extensive and unusual means for the victims to pursue monetary
redress from Epstein, means that were 'fast tracked' by eliminating many of Epstein's
potential legal and procedural defenses, then, had Epstein balked at the deal at the last
moment, Epstein would have had an important tool in his arsenal at trial: he could claim that
the victims were motivated by potential monetary gain. This seems to me to be a better
explanation than the 'uncertainty about who's in charge' explanation.
Bob ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:41 am
Yeah but Acosta was required by Federal law to contact the victims.
He did not do so. This was noted by a Federal judge.
This appears to be a Felony.
Felonies in Florida can be grounds for disbarment.
It makes no difference if Epstein was balking or if the victims were after the cash. Or if
it was better to sign of a Friday or any other day of the week.
Acosta violated Federal law.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:05 pm
I'm sure Acosta will be jailed for that offense any day now. /sarc
Stephen Gardner ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:24 pm
I can't imagine why Epstein would have balked at such a sweetheart deal. NPAs for his
powerful friends, that's where the skeletons are.
flora ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:15 pm
Here's Brown's Miami Herald timeline of events in the 2008 case leading up to and
including that plea deal.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article221404845.html
Steve H. ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:10 am
> attention to the caliber of the information behind what the press has reported and
where there are gaps
It's been too long to remember when Epstein first popped up on my radar, but his Bill
Clinton connection is what resonated. (I've hated Bill since he tried to eviscerate the EPA
three months before I got my environmental science degree.) Three notes on reporting:
: I first saw the link with Epstein, Wexner, and Mossad on a video by Anonymous, but did
not repost it here based on the journalistic standards Yves demanded. The video was excellent
on the facts I knew, with no false accusations. The Wexner & Maxwell linkage to Mossad
snapped the whole story into focus. However. I still haven't seen any source more reliable
than MintPress on this, but NC is my filter so I'm not looking hard.
: James Patterson wrote a book on Epstein, published in 2017, that mysteriously left the
well-documented Clinton rides on the Lolita Express out. In 2018 Patterson published a book
co-authored with Clinton. Follow the money.
: That Ghislaine is Robert Maxwell's daughter looks like it's being scrubbed thus far. We
shall see.
:: Addendum: mea culpa, in a previous comment I said Marvin Minsky was at Harvard. In
fact, he was employed by MIT.
dearieme ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:33 am
he was employed by MIT
Naturally Harvard would have a large role in this but it's disappointing that MIT might be
polluted with it too.
Rachel Hubbard ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:48 am
I'm not an alumni, but when has Harvard's name ever been sullied?
Steve H. ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:31 am
"I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say
whatever they want. But people on the inside don't listen to them. Insiders, however, get
lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People -- powerful people -- listen to what
they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don't criticize
other insiders."
Elizabeth Warren, reporting what former Harvard President Larry Summers told her.
There's a reason the name wasn't sullied. This is the curtain being pulled back.
Michael Fiorillo ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:03 am
That's sarcasm, right?
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:15 pm
It's been sullied by Harvard's connection to Epstein.
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/12/3/epstein-harvard-ties/
"Epstein donated millions to the University. He funded the construction of a campus
building. He cultivated cozy friendships with top Harvard brass including a former University
president. And he forged close personal and professional ties to Alan M. Dershowitz."
And then there is this –
https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/07/harvard-criticized-for-keeping-6-5-million-gift-from-alleged-sex-trafficker-jeffrey-epstein/
"Professor Ron Sullivan was stripped of a residential deanship by Harvard for agreeing to
represent Harvey Weinstein, but they're keeping Epstein's money."
anonymous ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:30 pm
Epstein's little brother Mark mugged Cooper Union school for science and art, raising
tuition from Free to $43,000 per year, following its "own financial crisis."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_Union_financial_crisis_and_tuition_protests
Steve H. ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:26 am
> That Ghislaine is Robert Maxwell's daughter looks like it's being scrubbed thus far.
We shall see.
The Rolling Stone story in today's Links pops that cork. Rolling Stone ain't
MintPress.
Tom ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:00 am
> That Ghislaine is Robert Maxwell's daughter looks like it's being scrubbed thus
far.
On Monday 12th BBC News published Ghislaine Maxwell caught up in Jeffrey
Epstein allegations which talks about Robert, her close relationship with him, the boat
and his death.
Acacia ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:16 pm
Maxwell supposedly found living low-profile in New England:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7352813/Ghislaine-Maxwell-consort-Jeffrey-Epstein-living-mansion-outside-Boston.html
Acacia ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:24 pm
And Maxwell's new beau is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations ?
https://www.cfr.org/content/bios/Borgerson_bio_Aug08.pdf
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:52 pm
Shouldn't she be arrested? Or at least questioned? Am I allowed to suggest this?
Acacia ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:24 pm
Is there a warrant for her arrest?
Even if there isn't one, yet, Maxwell may have a significant role in the 2,000 pages of
documents that Julie Brown reported were expected to be unsealed this month:
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article232251212.html
Getting a serious journalist to report on the contents of those documents could be a good
start, too.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:19 pm
Haven't heard about any criminal charges yet but she is being named in a lawsuit by one of
Epstein's victims.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/14/jeffrey-epstein-ghislaine-maxwell-accuser-sues-longtime-associate/2006191001/
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:24 pm
I read she turned evidence, which if correct means she got immunity. But she could be sued
along with the Epstein's estate for having procured for him.
False Solace ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:22 pm
Other commenters have chimed in with links to "reputable" reporting on the story. There
are some podcasts that seem to be aggregating this reporting, both in the podcasts proper and
their related Twitter accounts. TrueAnon is the main one I'm aware of that seems to be
following the Epstein story in a verifiable way -- they may speculate occasionally but it's
based on fact. QAnon Anonymous has also done an Epstein episode and seems to be pretty good.
I'm not an expert on this story but the podcasts I listened to seemed reasonable. There are
many other "news" sources that engage in total imagination and delusion (possibly
intentional?) so it's good to listen with a peaked ear.
AdrianD. ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:13 am
If you want an indication of how the reporting of the Epstein alleged suicide will develop
over the coming months then look no further than the 'reporting' of the alleged Salisbury
Skripal nerve agent poisoning.
Government & Metropolitan Police timelines changed quietly and then disappeared with
no press comment, local knowledge is ignored, CCTV present but never shown, medical processes
never queried, let alone explained. New 'evidence' that contradicts previous statements by
Theresa May & Boris Johnson is reported without reference to their previous assertions to
Parliament (misleading the House used to be a big thing over here).
We've already had the 'coincidence' of the broken camera in New York, but it'll take a
little more for this case to trump the Skripal one where the nurse who just happend to be
passing turned out months later to be not just a nurse, but an army nurse, and not just any
army nurse, but the most senior nurse in the whole of the UK armed forces. What fun.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:26 am
This is a post on critical thinking and you are contributing to the problem. One of the
points of bothering to put up this post was to encourage readers to be exacting about
information and sourcing.
The camera was not "broken" per the NY Post article that first reported that there was no
video of his death. Epstein was in a cell where the cameras were not set up to record inside
the cell:
Although there are cameras in the 9 South wing where the convicted pedophile was being
held at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, they are trained on the areas outside the
cells and not inside, according to sources familiar with the setup there.
https://nypost.com/2019/08/11/theres-no-video-of-jeffrey-epsteins-apparent-suicide-sources/
AdrianD. ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:38 am
Quite right Yves! I stand corrected and happy to be so. I should have checked my sources
and not relied on the impression from a series of early reports.
My point stands regarding how this is likely to develop though – it's been amazing
from here in the UK just how compliant our media has been in accepting, purveying and then
defending the accepted (ie. Government) Skripal narrative (about which I am very much better
informed).
I hope you continue to cover the Epstiein case (even just in Links & WaterCooler) as I
fear that there are all too few ready to offer your (and your commentors) level of informed
analysis.
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:10 am
"according to sources familiar with the setup there.."
Even this is weird! What sources?! And why must they go unnamed?! In what possible world
is the objective and easily verified layout of a federal penitentiary something that must be
discussed in hushed tones?!
Anyway, it does not make any sense to me that monitoring cameras within a federal
penitentiary would not be able to record any activity within the cells but only in the
hallway outside them, but what do I know? I am perfectly willing to be instructed otherwise
by somebody who knows and understands this practice. But that is precisely what is *not*
happening.
Lee ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:32 am
It doesn't take a ligature of great strength or the pressure on the neck of one's full
body weight to cause death by carotid artery compression. This method has the added advantage
of being less painful and, if done properly, less likely to induce panic associated with
airway blockage. Don't try this at home, kids.
From Wikipedia:
Ligature strangulation specifications
Minimal pressure :
3.2 to 5 kg[1][2]( or 6 kg[3] or 10 kg[4]) necessary for closing the carotid
arteries;
2 kg necessary for closing the jugular veins;
15 kg necessary for the compression of the airway: this is painful.
"What this means, practically speaking, is that someone who wants – or wants to avoid
– a lethal result should be aware that full suspension is quite unnecessary. Death
will occur after only a few pounds of pressure on a neck ligature; a sitting or
semi-reclining position is sufficient." -- excerpt from Geo Stone's book.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Suicide/Ligature_strangulation
Even so, the whiff of rat is strong in this one.
Gayle ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:56 pm
As Robin Williams died -- and he copied a suicide method that was shown in one of his
movies.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:26 pm
The claim by the former MCC inmate at the top of the post is that the standard issue
sheets in his cell would not take Epstein's body weight, that they'd tear.
dearieme ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:37 am
Epstein was in a cell where the cameras were not set up to record inside the
cell
Then we must ask whether there were cells elsewhere in the jail where there were cameras
to keep an eye on the inmates. If so, why was he not assigned to such a cell?
vlade ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:11 am
Especially since he had a previous unsuccessful suicide attempt.
pretzelattack ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:22 am
purportedly, anyway. didn't he say he had been assaulted? all the more reason to have
cameras on the cell itself.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:29 pm
He had been in a cell with a dirty cop. That was when he was found unconscious.
You would think it would be hard to hang yourself with someone else present without him
going along with the process.
The lack of reporting on that incident is par for the course, since that would provide
more insight into what might have happened.
milesc ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:52 am
The Times included a few paragraphs in its coverage under the heading, "Is it even him?
Suicide sceptics smell a rat", with a small picture highlighting rather obvious differences
between the face of the dead person wheeled out of hospital and Epstein's face (notably the
shape of the nose and the helix of the left ear).
Unfortunately, the paragraphs themselves contained no discussion whatsoever on the "Is it
even him?" question, or the differences highlighted in the picture. No attempt to explain. No
coroner or other medical expert consulted. Nothing.
Bugs Bunny ,
August 14, 2019 at 7:54 am
1. There was a graphic of Epstein's prison cell that ran in earlier stories before his
death but seems to not have been in the media since, except for this story today:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7352761/Prince-Andrew-boards-private-jet-Aberdeen-airport-cuts-Balmoral-stay-short.html
The MCC cell looks pretty much the same as the cell that El Chapo was held in when he was
there:
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2019/07/el-chapo-transported-to-colorado-after.html
So I would think (though no reporter has said it) that there must be a way to confirm how
a suicide could be carried out in this kind of cell. But why isn't any reporter going to the
MCC SHU to see an empty cell similar to the one Epstein was in? Wouldn't this be the first
thing a decent journo would think of? It would sure help sort some things out.
2. CBS News ran a story that mentioned "shrieking and shouting" coming from Epstein's cell
but didn't tie it to the guards who "attempted to revive him"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-epstein-death-shrieking-heard-jail-cell-morning-he-died-metropolitan-correctional-center/
The Daily Mail reports that it was the guards themselves who were shrieking and
shouting:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7352511/Congress-demands-answers-Jeffrey-Epsteins-death.html
This could be good reporting by the Mail or perhaps a game of telephone.
3. The Mail also has drone footage of Epstein's "private island", which seems like some
real reporting (but it's still the Daily Mail):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7353367/Little-St-James-Island-footage-reveals-details-Jeffrey-Epsteins-secluded-pedophile-retreat.html
It looks like the buildings might have been connected by tunnels but that's just my
hypothesis from the small building cropping out from the side of a hill.
Perhaps enough details will come out for one coherent explanation to appear.
Buttinsky ,
August 14, 2019 at 3:23 pm
But the Post story reported that Epstein hung himself from a bunk bed -- which is
definitely not what appears in the diagrams of cells offered in the Daily Mail and El Chapo
stories. And since he had a cellmate at one point (presumably in the same cell), a bunk bed
would make sense.
Again, just a fuzzy detail that someone needs to resolve?
Brooklin Bridge ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:20 am
The paucity of facts, the quality of reporting, the consistency of that (lack of) quality,
the credulity required in some of the "official" explanations/reports such as that one of the
most high profile sex offender cases ever brought to to trial was handled with the principal
charged offender un-monitored due to under funding and sleepy guards, or the well established
fact (beyond the ability of the media to obscure) that this case involved other very highly
placed and powerful individuals who potentially stood to be utterly ruined if not imprisoned
themselves by the ensuing discovery and inescapably highly public scrutiny the case would
generate; this indicates to me that, at the very least, there is a high degree of doubt that
the official story of suicide is factual, or for that matter, that anything one hears from
the main stream media is factual except by accident, incompetence, or the fact that even the
time tested over generations and highly conditioned American manufactured ideologically based
credulity actually does have limits, so for instance, they can't easily say that Martians
came down and hypnotized the guards.
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:22 am
"they can't easily say that Martians came down and hypnotized the guards."
But they can say that Russians did.
Excellent comment.
Sam Adams ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:20 am
The Implementation of procedure for attorneys seeing their clients and over worked staff
was so lax for years such that it wouldn't be very difficult to smuggle in something to off
Epstein, for the right price. I guess that the price was right with a deep pocket able to
front the offshore cash.
YY ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:28 am
Am I correct, or have I not been paying attention, of the result of the initial possible
suicide incident, in that it has not become publicly clear as to whether it was indeed
attempted suicide or whether there was an attack of sorts. Was there any resolution to the
found in fetal position with marks on neck bizzo as to what actually transpired? It is kind
of important that this first incident which should have been easy to clarify (since the now
deceased was alive enough to present his take on the matter) would naturally point to how the
final death event may have occurred. Real mystery is that the first incident would have
required a more serious and prolonged effort to protect the deceased from either killing self
or being snuffed out. And it should have been clear as to what event one would have to
prevent. Instead we get this total BS situation. This is pretty typical and we are so used to
having poor stories of events that do not resolve and then are overtaken by subsequent events
that are also unconvincing as to clarity.
Lemmy Caution ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:08 am
I was thinking the same thing. That initial report of Epstein's injury/suicide attempt
included language like "nearly unconscious," "curled in a fetal position" and "bruising
around the neck" -- all fairly alarming descriptions. And yet after reports that Epstein had
been whisked off to the hospital for treatment/ observation, the story just dropped off the
radar completely. I may have missed it, but I don't remember seeing any kind of offical
explanation about what had actually happened. Weird.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:00 am
An attack of true gospel "Tinn Hatt Thinkin" here.
Could a body double of Epstein have been brought back to the cell from the prison hospital
after the first "suicide" attempt and the real Epstein spirited away days before? The
shrieking heard emanating from the cell later could have been the body double resisting the
double cross perpetrated upon him.
Have we had an autopsy yet? It should have happened hours after the death so as to preserve
as much biological evidence as possible. So, where is the autopsy information? I don't know
the legal rules controlling autopsy reports, so I do not know how long the 'officials' can
wait before releasing the information. Second, who gets the body? Will it be buried intact or
cremated?
Epstein is Jewish of Jewish parents. Doesn't the Hebrew law that bodies must be buried within
a day or so apply? I would be seriously interested about who sat Kaddish for this man.
Tim ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:07 pm
There was a joke in the Yahoo Comments I want to re-post:
"While the coroner was out at lunch, Epstein cremated himself."
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:23 am
This is a great point.
jsba ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:37 pm
This is one of the more irritation and suspicious elements of this whole thing here. Here
is correspondence between the judge and the warden in which the judge asks what the
determination on the 7/23 incident is. The warden's reply is . still pretty suspicious!
https://cryptome.org/2019/08/epstein-044-046.pdf
GERMO ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:34 am
In addition to the bigtime official press conference that hasn't happened, we are also
missing the usual "I'm looking forward to clearing my name" schtick -- considering the
abominable accusations against Ghislane Maxwell (and others too). That Maxwell is still
hiding out is just weird -- unless the situation is something other than the Nothing Fishy
Here narrative being pushed in the MSM. She's issued denials of course but the
whereabouts-unknown act is something strange. Hard to imagine she's going to ever appear,
frankly. Very little responsible reporting on Maxwell since Epstein's death, I think.
A simple explanation for the behavior of the press regarding the Epstein case is that
modern mass media very much don't want to rock the plutocrat boat. Certainly they've been
steadily ridding themselves of any effective boat-rocking talent we grew up associating with
the investigative reporting of yore.
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:31 am
I believe there is a Telegraph or Daily Mail story on her in which it is
hypothesized–I am not kidding–that she is on a submarine somewhere. Being an
obtuse American, I could not tell if the author was joking.
Maxwell herself is a licensed private helicopter pilot and a "deep water submarine pilot,"
which is totally normal and par for the course among wealthy international socialite
women.
Francine McKenna ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:12 pm
The same could be said, then, about Jeff Bezos new girlfriend, also a TV host cum
helicopter pilot.
lambert strether ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:03 pm
It's almost like the very rich are preparing the means to flee
Carolinian ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:38 am
It's rather amusing for the NYT to get on their high horse about conspiracy theories when
they've been pushing the idea that the president is a Russian mole for the past two years.
Cronkite–not necessarily a perfect figure himself–got it right when he said the
only thing a news organization has to sell is credibility. When they start knowingly or
carelessly telling lies then why should the public believe any of it?
Ironically in this case the official story may be correct. It is plausible that he could
have strangled himself with a twisted bed sheet attached to an upper bunk frame, that the
guards were asleep etc. That doesn't mean that the prison authorities weren't being
deliberately careless or that there's not a lot more to the story (he may have been told he
would be killed if he didn't do it himself). Whatever the facts are here's doubting we'll be
reading them in the NY Times.
pjay ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:39 am
I know many here will not consider Paul Craig Roberts helpful in contributing to critical
thinking on the Epstein case. But like Tucker Carlson, he has sometimes been a voice in the
wilderness on key issues over the last few years, and his post on Epstein the other day was a
good one. In particular, this comment caught my eye:
"James Jesus Angleton, head of CIA counter-intelligence, once told me that when the CIA
pulls off something, it muddies the waters by placing different and conflicting stories in
the media. The result, he said, is that there is too much to investigate, and people end up
arguing with one another over which story is correct, and the facts of the event are never
investigated. Today with the Internet all sorts of stories can be put into play in order to
cover an event in confusion."
I thought about this yesterday when the the story about some unnamed someone hearing
"shrieking" from Epstein's cell was reported -- by CBS! And no apparent followup? There will
be misinformation (by goofballs) and disinformation (by interested parties) galore in this
case, as in all such cases, to keep us arguing amongst ourselves. Sourcing is crucial in
trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. But as we all know, it is hard to trust
"official" sources today.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/08/12/the-epstein-mystery/
James ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:14 pm
He's immensely helpful. Thanks!
prodigalson ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:15 pm
Of course why an advanced society continues to allow an organization to exist whose sole
purpose is to intentionally muddy the waters for what constitutes reality is something of a
puzzle in and of itself. That's rather like building an advanced nuclear reactor with the
best and most up to date safety features and redundancies but also building an easily
accessible big red button labeled " blow up the plant and kill everyone in the tri-state
area." Outside of God we seem fairly bent on self-annihilation.
Inode_buddha ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:33 pm
It's not that hard to understand -- look what happened to the last guy who tried to do something about
them.
Susan the other` ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:56 pm
One thing I noticed: in a photo, which could have been photo shopped, of Jeffie's mansion
on Orgy Island, we see a big square building painted in broad sky blue and white stripes,
reminiscent of the flag of Israel, and the building is square like a synagog/temple and it
has a gilded dome on top. That was a bit much. The next image I saw of his mansion on Orgy
Island was of a large bunker-esque stone building – no paint and no dome. Instant food
for thought. The info on Epstein has been manipulated beyond belief, I'm sure.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:29 pm
One interesting thing I read was that Epstein's operation had it's own radio tower on the
island, so that communication by radio could be very secure within a private system.
Bobby Gladd ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:43 am
Interesting post, thanks. Tweeted it. I have a MEGO reaction to this stuff–tsunamis
of "Occam's Meat Axe" "logic."
AG Barr was "outraged" and has ordered an "investigation."
Bless his little heart.
Fear not: NYTimes Court Composer Haberman will soon fill in the blanks.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:31 pm
Once an investigation is begun, isn't it then customary for all of the known evidence to
be sealed until it is finished? Seems like a good way to help keep the lid on things.
toshiro_mifune ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:43 am
It's ironic to hear the FBI whinge about conspiracy theories as a danger to public
safety, yet see the officialdom, and even the press, handle the untimely death of Jeffrey
Epstein in a manner almost guaranteed to maximize salacious interest and speculation.
Hear, hear. At the very least I'd like to see some follow-up from someone in the press
with Acosta regarding the "owned by intelligence" statement. Did he actually say that? If
yes, what did he mean? Questions would obviously follow from there if we get an affirmative
for the first and clarification on the second.
Katniss Everdeen ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:34 am
Agreed.
The plea deal was signed in June, 2008. The attorney general, acosta's boss, who surely
had to be aware of if not approve the deal, was Alberto Gonzalez. W. was president.
What does Gonzalez have to say about this sweetheart "deal?"
Six months later, a new sheriff, obama, came to town, and eric holder came with him.
epstein would have been serving his "sentence" at the time.
Did the new democrat attorney general have any thoughts on letting a pedophile
skate while hiding it from the victims?
urblintz ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:36 am
I'd like to see some follow-up from someone in the press with Acosta regarding the
"owned by intelligence" statement. Did he actually say that? If yes, what did he mean?
Questions would obviously follow from there if we get an affirmative for the first and
clarification on the second.
"These are not the affirmatives you are looking for " [waves hand, recovers head with
urban camouflage/jedi hood]
WJ ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:55 pm
That statement is going to be forgotten and in five years may as well never have been
uttered. All for the sake of IngSoc.
CloverBee ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:57 am
NPR pushing the official line that conspiracy theories are for whack a doodles.
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750897686/how-and-why-people-come-up-with-conspiracy-theories
He could have been given the tools to hang himself by his lawyer, and easily convinced to
do so. Certainly this is the most convenient outcome for the powerful people with whom he
associated. I don't think it really matters if he was murdered or committed suicide. What
matters is that we get to watch the powerful people he associated wriggle like worms on hooks
at the evidence.
My concern is that the press should be clamoring for the intense follow-up investigation
like they cover a white girl with a black boyfriend going missing (24/7 with frequent press
conferences). Instead we find them whining about conspiracy theorists being skeptical of the
official narratives.
The Rev Kev ,
August 14, 2019 at 8:58 am
About four years ago when the Panama Papers were first coming out – those that did
get released – I found it noteworthy that the media plastered the picture of the one
person that appeared nowhere in those papers – Vladimir Putin. I am seeing the same
with Trump here with the way that Epstein is constantly hung around his neck. As bad as Trump
is, about 15 years ago when he found that Epstein was making moves on an underage girl at his
Mar-a-Lago resort, Trump had him thrown out on his a**. That is why in the constant films and
photos that you see of Trump and Epstein together on the news, that they are much younger
versions of themselves. Sure they mention Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton but then they get
right back to Trump. Trump actually called the press out in an interview on an airport tarmac
when he said that Bill said that he went on the Lollita Express four times when it was more
like twenty-seven times. But the media is not pressing this issue. By logical extension then,
we are getting truth about all this from Trump instead of the actual press which is an awful
condemnation of the modern media.
I cannot help but think that there is going to be serious blowback from this incident so here
goes with another of my ratbag theories. At this stage, Epstein's death is probably what it
looks like – an establishment hit job. Considering that he may have been the most
important prisoner on the continental United States, the very long sequences of failures that
allowed his death is noteworthy. But here is the thing. There has been a catastrophic failure
on the part of the main stream media to delve into what happened. No interviews, graphics of
what his cell looked like, no timeline of events – zip. Even Trump was trashed by the
media for suggesting that the whole business was – off. And people are noticing this as
it is so blatant and how people that suggest otherwise are being labeled as conspiracy
theorists. So, what happens next year when the MSM give their usual coverage of the election
and nobody is really listening to them anymore because they do not trust them based on what
they are doing now – or are not doing. We experienced this in 2016 but I think that
next year that it will be more across the whole board this mistrust.
@pe ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:00 am
We know that Trump knew what Epstein was up to, to a first approximation from his
statement and the fact that they were business buddies/competitors, which would naturally
require a background check. In fact, many of the girls were coming from Mar-a-Lago.
We know that none of this material became of value to Trump including the "assaulted a
girl" issue until they started competing in an auction for a property. We also know from the
Miami Herald that Epstein claimed that it was Trump who was motivating the investigation
against him that started during auction.
So, we do not know whether Trump diddled or not children. But we can be confident that
Trump had sufficient information to know what Epstein did, and a strong suspicion that he had
sufficient evidence to heavily interfere with it -- and *chose* not to, unless it was purely
in his self-interest.
None of this makes Trump unique. We know the same about many other players. We have an
entire social class which is proven to be unworthy of power even under the most minimal
threshold. But we don't need to determine who was a "pervert" and who was merely an "enabler"
of perverts (except as judicial cases).
In terms of being legitimate users of power, belonging to this social group is enough for
us to not respect them as valid holders of social influence: Trump, the Clintons, the Pinkers
etc, and so on and so forth -- they've all proven themselves to be amoral and untrustworthy,
regardless of what particular perversions they are personally guilty of.
Yes, it is being used cynically as an attack on Trump -- but it *should be* used that way;
he placed the weapon there. Just as regardless of whether Bill went on 4 flights or 26 on the
Lolita Express, we can safely assume he did or should have done basic due diligence in
investigating one of his seed funders for the Initiative who was an obvious security risk,
and thus he must have known what Epstein was up to, but couldn't care less about consequences
on useless people (useless to him personally).
Likewise for Ehud Barak. Prince Andrew. And on and on. Ken Starr and Dershowitz. It's an
amazing circle of open secrets, and everyone who was in that circle is sufficiently guilty
without us ever having to prove a single positive criminal act by them, to forever eliminate
them from "minimally decent human being". They are co-conspirators by omission.
The only conclusions are either 1) that these people are completely socially incompetent
or 2) that they in fact had information and capacity to act and refused. #1 is absurd on the
face of it, thus we conclude #2. Any other choices, since all the evidence points to JE being
flagrant about his behavior?
elissa3 ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:42 pm
There could be a #3: absolute megalomania. There are those on this planet so wholly drunk
with their power and self-being, that they are not even oblivious to what the world at large
considers. That world–the reality that you and I live in–simply does not exist
for such people.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:37 pm
Make stuff up much? Trump and Epstein were not "business buddies/competitors". Moreover,
Epstein sought to cultivate the glitterati and the elites when Trump preferred poking a stick
in their eyes. New York Magazine was making fun of Trump starting in the 1980 for decorating
with lots of gold and dating/marrying swimsuit models rather than doing what a rich New
Yorker was supposed to do, donate to the right charities and hire the right decorators.
Trump's remarks in the early 2000s about Epstein liking to date pretty women and having an
appetite for young ones came off like a wink and nod that he was onto what Epstein was up to
but wasn't about to spell it out in enough detail for it to rise to the level of being an
accusation
emorejahongkong ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:12 am
>what happens next year when the MSM give their usual coverage of the election and
nobody is really listening to them anymore
What happens is: any establishment-linked Democratic nominee will be very vulnerable to
being beaten by Trump, because many swing voters will do one or both of the following:
1. Not believe the MSM's descriptions of Trump's bad acts, and/or
2. Decide that any candidate linked to the establishment (and to the known scandals like
Epstein's establishment cozyness, and the many other covered-up scandals that are implied by
the Epstein cover-ups) is less acceptable than even the worst confessed pussy-grabber who has
the saving grace of undermining establishment solidarity.
Bobby Gladd ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:24 pm
" but then they get right back to Trump."
Can hardly
fathom why .
/s
Grayce ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:05 am
Maybe there is background connection with the death of Robin Williams. Williams was found,
apparently at door knob level, and some theories identify the strangulation as a sex
practice. If Epstein was compulsive in his sex needs, might he have been in a similar
situation? That inquiry would take a different team of experts. Has the press speculated or
investigated?
rrennel ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:06 am
I've followed the Epstein story since Julie K. Brown wrote the terrific investigative
report "Perversion of Justice" in the Miami Herald in November 2018 so I can't help but
comment on this post. At the time, I felt compelled to write an essay (never published) on
sex crimes and big law ethics because I was appalled by her description of the extent of
Epstein's crimes and abuse and the sweetheart deal (non-prosecute agreement) approved by Alex
Acosta. I wrote:
"Reports of Epstein's illicit sexual exploits date back at least to 2005, when the local
police raided his Palm Beach mansion after a 14-year-old girl and her parents reported that
she was molested by Epstein. Epstein's alleged behavior – assembling a large, cult-like
network of underage girls to coerce into sex acts and trafficking minor girls on his personal
jet (dubbed the Lolita Express) for sex parties at his homes in Palm Beach, Manhattan, New
Mexico and the Caribbean – surpass the allegations against such famed sex offenders as
Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein.
The New York Post, the Daily Mail, numerous other publications and media sites have written
dozens of salacious stories about Epstein over the years. Vanity Fair profiled him in a 2013
article The Talented Mr. Epstein and James Patterson co- wrote a non-fiction book, Filthy
Rich: The Billionaire's Sex Scandal–The Shocking True Story of Jeffrey Epstein, with
investigative reporters John Connolly and Tim Malloy. In the pre-#MeToo era, many of these
media reports focused on the sensational, while giving short shrift to the serious criminal
aspect of Epstein's behavior."
Were it not for Julie K. Brown, Epstein would almost certainly be alive today, traveling on
the Lolita Express, while continuing to pal around with his plutocrat and horndog friends.
Also, because someone at the SDNY thankfully paid attention to this reporting, my
expectations from January – i.e. that "Epstein's wealth and connections seem likely to
insulate him from further prosecution" were wrong.
So while I agree with Yves comments, it should be noted that notwithstanding the lack of
critical thinking and heavy spin evidenced today, it is worth recalling that there are
examples of exceptional journalism and Ms. Brown is a exemplar of the profession.
doug ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:22 am
Yes, what was that raid on the island about? this long a time after his arrest
Strange or coincidental timing
Possibly we will find out one day
Thanks for the tone of this article. Well done.
Stephen Gardner ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:28 pm
I'm sure the FBI will exercise the same level of professionalism when doing the forensic
examination of any computers it finds as it did for the DNC servers and Anthony Anthony
Weiner's laptop. Oh, wait! :-)
I'm sure that the evidence will be examined with an eye toward protecting the right people
and punishing anyone they need to squeeze.
polecat ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:48 pm
THIS ! Your comment solidifies in stone how this country is doomed to dissolve. To a
greater and significant degree, the public is finding true justice wanting, and thus, holds
no trust in Government, at All levels.
But hey that's just conspiracy theory talk .. right ?
Harold ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:55 pm
Incidentally, wasn't Weiner a passenger on the Epstein jet, too?
juliania ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:24 am
The slow drip, drip, drip of information in a case that was, to say the least high profile
reminds me of a comment I read once back in the day of the 'disappeared' tactics in South
America. The comment was that it was not so much the apparent assassinations that were the
regime's targets but the fact that things were happening to people in a remorseless way in
order to cow or coerce others into continuing to cooperate – whether it was the general
population or in fact closer associates of the regime. 'See what we can do? Watch out, or we
will do it to you. We can do anything we want.'
I haven't been following this case, but that's the impression I get. Those in the know are
being warned.
Frank Little ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:24 am
In my experience dealing with state prison authorities when trying to get to the bottom of
how someone died in prison, excuses like understaffing/underfunding are basically standard
operating procedure. I've attended a few meetings of a public committee that is convened to
discuss deaths in Wisconsin prisons as part of advocating for improvements in prisons there
and when family members of loved ones have asked why more wasn't done to prevent their death
in prison the DOC officials almost always tell us it's a matter of funding rather than bad
actors, management, or general organizational culture.
There was an
article in the WSJ yesterday talking about problems in the Bureau of Prisons which I
think is instructive:
Within the government, the prisons bureau is known for its opaque decision-making, and
even federal judges are constrained in their ability to order the agency to change a
prisoner's conditions of confinement or treatment behind bars, according to law-enforcement
experts.
"The BOP is its own fiefdom," said David Patton, who has worked as a federal defender in
New York for 18 years. "There is no outside enforcement mechanism to handle these issues.
Truly, it's insanity."
This is a good description of how most state prison systems in the US operate, at least in
my experience. Problems in MCC do not at all rule out a larger conspiracy to kill Epstein. In
fact, given what is known about staff usually being the conduit for contraband like drugs
getting into prisons, it provokes more questions than it answers. Just last year a guard was
arrested for smuggling drugs, money, cell phones, and food into the MCC.
It's unfortunate that abysmal conditions in US prisons are being used to dismiss questions
about Epstein's death, especially since barely anybody seems to care when poor and mostly
anonymous people die in prison as a result of neglect, violence, or some combination of the
two with no attention or fanfare.
@pe ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:08 am
Bad conditions make it cheap and easy to do whatever you want -- incompetence is not a
competitive explanation to conspiracy, but in fact is the conditions for conspiracy to be a
reasonable explanation.
Hanlon's razor is intellectually void. Incompetence is the structural complement of
conspiracy.
Jeff N ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:39 pm
What if the prison management let him commit suicide just so they could request more
funding? "See what happens when you underfund us?"
Frank Little ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:16 pm
I'd say it's more of a knee-jerk response to criticism on the BOP's part to blame lack of
funds or low-level employees. The recent bit about guards suspected of falsifying logs so
they could sleep is pretty clever as a cover-up strategy if that's what it is, since
irregularities can be blamed on lazy low-level employees rather than any concerted effort to
get someone in or out of his cell.
It didn't take long for the bit about guards deviating from the check-up schedule to make
it into press reports even though now it appears those logs were falsified based on
subsequent viewing of security footage, at least according to AP. It's not surprising that
there's anonymous sources on something like this, but it would be good to know who knew the
procedure wasn't followed before it came out that the logs were falsified.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:44 pm
If you wanted someone dead, wouldn't prison be one of the easiest places to get away with
murder? Easy to cover up or blame as an accident/suicide, and for the victim, nowhere to
run.
barrisj ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Case in point: Whitey Bulger.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:40 pm
I was told by a former state prosecutor after this post went live that Federal prison
staff are particularly vulnerable to pressure. Imagine you worked in the MCC. You live in the
five boroughs. You could be transferred to any Federal pen, and most of them are in bumfuck
nowhere. Or potentially worse, you could be sent to a supermax.
grizziz ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:45 am
Re: shoe leather
This spectator/journalist pointed out the dearth of reporters going to the MCC. Just her and
two others:
https://twitter.com/cassandrarules/status/1160937398391451648?s=21
michael hudson ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:53 am
I think that comedians are much more equipped to handle the scant information we have than
the press.
What's needed is a mind-expansion exercise, and humor is the best way to achieve this.
Almost any solution to the bizarre coincidences and mishaps will have to be speculative, so
going whole-hog will stretch matters to the limits. (Already I have SNL routines going
through my head. I love the false-rumor of some officials in grey coming into Epstein's cell
and whisking him away in a white van without a license plate; but then, who did they bring
in? A look-alike? Did they test the DNA of the corpse in the morgue?)
Anyway, that opens the way for the mind to run free -- MANY versions that take the known
facts into account, not just one!
urblintz ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:01 am
Voltaire suggested that "God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to
laugh"
I hope he was wrong and that you (as we've come to expect) are right!
michael hudson ,
August 14, 2019 at 9:59 am
What is needed is a scenario for the Deep State holding a Planning Session.
-- Let's overwork the guards 5 days in a row so that they get very sleepy and won't do the
rounds.
-- Let's spike their drink with a sleeping pill.
-- Have a Mission Impossible team come in and cover up the TV cameras with a fake scene
replacing the foreign killers (or kidnappers, take your pick) coming in.
The PLANNING session is the key!
Michael
Jonathan Holland Becnel ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:27 pm
POW POW!
#HUDSONHAWK STRIKES AGAIN!!!
Seems to me we should be investigating all the people coming and going from that prison.
Maybe local activists should have formed a Vigilante circle around the whole building until
Sexteins day in court!!!
Bobby Gladd ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:17 am
At Emptywheel:
FOUR MONTHS AGO ATTORNEY GENERAL BILL BARR CALLED BOP STAFF SHORTAGES THAT LED TO WHITEY
BULGER MURDER "A SNAFU"
Watt4Bob ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:21 am
"It's a big club and you ain't in it."
So now all the club members are looking for a new president to take over the many duties
associated with 'adult entertainment' and related services.
My take is the ' club ' has been in operation for centuries and its members have
always relied on a fixer with connections broad and strong enough to keep them ' safe,
' from the prying eyes of the church, the law, and the public at large.
Think Mr. Wolf from 'Pulp Fiction'.
Jeffery did a great job, but alas, men are apt to outgrow their britches and let their
egos pollute their judgement, and Jeff was no exception, he started to think that he was as
immune as his clientele, and that was a bad mistake.
Epstein may well have been groomed for his job, and that would imply there are cadets
being prepared, to take his job, his end being being one of their final lessons.
Jim A. ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:26 am
Keep in mind that the only real witnesses (two guards) are guilty of incompetence and
fraud, even if not complicit in murder for hire. When you combine that with the reflexive
"code of silence" around wrongdoing by law enforcement it is no surprise that facts are thin
on the ground.
Yves
Smith Post author ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:42 pm
See my comment above from a former state prosecutor about the staff at Federal prisons
being particularly vulnerable to pressure. He's not convinced that they weren't acting on
orders.
David ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:33 am
If you have been on the inside of a crisis that made it into the media you will have
observed two things. The first is that initial reports are invariably incomplete, often
fragmentary and often contradictory. It can take some time to work out what happened, and,
even then, inconsistencies usually remain, because people recall events differently,
especially under stress, and adjust their memories later based on what they have read and
head. This is what enables journalists, even years later, to produce shock horror revelations
in best-selling books.
The other is that the media is largely unconcerned with truth. What they want is A Good
Story, even if it contradicts the last one they printed. The media will usually seize on the
most outrageous or sensational interpretation of events, and generally refuse to retract
their story even when better information is available. This helps to create a febrile public
mood in which conspiracy theories are circulated and recirculated until nobody can remember
where they originated. They help to produce a public mood where conspiracies are so much
taken for granted that people, as here, automatically accept them because they seem natural
and anyway that film I saw last week was all about this CIA conspiracy.
In this casé the sloppiness and lack if critical thought we've come to expect from the
media was on full display, but there is another factor as well. If you look at some of the
coverage in the blogosphere , you can see an internal struggle going on. Many sites and
pundits would instinctively go for the conspiracy explanation but feel inhibited because
Trump got there first. Expect a few nervous breakdowns in the days to come as they struggle
with this contradiction.
Whoamolly ,
August 14, 2019 at 10:49 am
As I read the news now I am constantly reminding myself, "There is no journalism
profession left in this country."
It sickens me to assume that I can no longer trust the NYT, or any other major media
outlet.
Instead of reporters, we have stenographers and clickbaiters. There are
exceptions–people like Matt Taibbi and several others–but they are
exceptions.
I think the Epstein Affair is a tipping point, when large numbers of reasonable people are
reaching the same conclusion.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:15 am
Agreed. We seem to be now entering the Era of the "Manufacture of Disconsent."
Whoamolly ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:23 pm
It costs about $200,000 tuition to get a journalism degree from a top ranked school. Add 4
years living expenses and the minimum entry cost for the profession is about $400,000 for a
low wage job.
Who can afford that? What class do they come from? And what priorities does someone with
that debt load and class background have?
Combine that with media consolidation and 3-4 corporate owned giants. You either work for
one of the giant political parties or one of the giant corporations.
In that environment a good looking, smart, CNN talking head thrives and a talent like Sy
Hersh or Thomas Frank has to leave the country to get published.
Acacia ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:05 pm
Current Affairs has run a series of articles on problems with the journalism of the
NYT.
After their support for wars in the Middle East, near constant reliance on unnamed
official sources (the paper could be renamed "Officials said ") and the revelation that they
vet their stories with the intel agencies, I concluded it's more of a PR office for the White
House than a reliable news source.
Critical thinking means we have to weigh many different sources of information, some more
reliable than others, and actively exercise our own powers of judgement. Personally, I found
the NYT ceased to stimulate my thinking in that way, and I removed them from my regular
reading list years ago.
Sometimes I check back, only to find the NYT writers suffering from Trump/Putin
Derangement Syndrome or some other twentieth-century disease, long since wiped out by the
alternative media. It's been surprisingly easy to let go of them.
lordkoos ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:49 pm
This recent opinion piece from last week in the NYT is classic –
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/opinion/russia-nuclear-treaty-inf.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
flora ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:06 am
One of the interesting coincidences in the timing makes me wonder if the Court's unsealing
2000 pages of evidentiary documents that named names on August 9th cancelled out any assumed
deadman's switch Epstein was said to have. If the names and events were starting to come out
through the Court .
Documents released August 9th. Epstein supposedly commits suicide the either the night of
August 9th or early in the morning Aug. 10th. Epstein's death ended the criminal case against
him. Only the civil cases can now go forward.
I believe in coincidences, but the timing (less than 24 hours) is remarkable.
It's reasonable to ask if release of the documents mooted any deadman's switch he may have
had.
flora ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:29 pm
adding: if Epstein was part of an intel agency blackmail ring, keeping the blackmailed
under the control of whatever agency means keeping the blackmailing information hidden. If it
all the information comes out then the threat is over and the control is over. (Looking at
one possibility from a purely 'business' point of view. )
JL1965 ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:23 am
I'm wondering whether Trump and Barr now have all the blackmail material. (Was that the
purpose of the island raid?)
If so, what are they going to do with it? Just think of how much control they would have
over other powerful people in the U.S. and all over the world.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:42 am
Then they would be carrying on in the tradition of J Edgar Hoover. Plenty of precedent for
that. Throw a few insignificant people to the wolves and hoard the rest of the
'evidence.'
Eclair ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:25 am
I am reminded of the case of the missing 18 1/2 minutes of tape, in the midst of a
recorded telephone conversation between President Nixon and his henchman, John Haldeman. In
1973, during the Watergate Investigation, there was a remarkably similar aura of conspiracy
theory, disbelief that this erasure had occurred so fortuitously, and a general hilarity over
the official attempt to blame it on the 'incompetence' of Nixon's secretary, Rose Mary Woods,
who, allegedly, had acrobatically stretched to answer a telephone call and so hit the wrong
button on the tape machine as she was transcribing the tapes. The 'missing minutes' occupied
a disproportionate amount of media time and space for months.
Which may be one of the reasons I knew nothing of the Chilean coup d'etat, September 11,
1973, that replaced Salvadore Allende with Augusto Pinochet. But, there I go again, with the
conspiracy theories!
richard ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:25 am
Here's another Consortium link
: a writer who has spent time in federal lockup on suicide watch. Not too much new info
provided, but does reinforce how this protocol makes suicide impossible, and how it was (no
doubt purposefully) botched in Epstein's case.
dearieme ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:29 am
I find many conspiracy theories laughable, including the conspiracy theory that there are
no conspiracies.
My eye is taken when a key actor is murdered. Thus Oswald was murdered by Ruby. A witness
to the lives of the alleged Boston Bombers was murdered by the FBI. Seth Rich, who may
perhaps have been the leaker of the DNC emails, was murdered by person or persons unknown,
not necessarily in the employ of a leading Dem politician.
So: have there been any other murders or disappearances recently that could be related to
the Epstein business? For example, if Epstein was murdered will someone now have the murdered
the murderers to shut them up? Might Ghislaine Maxwell have been murdered? Are the children
and wives of the jail warders all present and accounted for?
Anarcissie ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:32 am
Mr. Epstein's mode of demise seems too inconvenient for many of the Important People to
have been planned and executed by competent professionals in their service. However, it might
be an aspect of factional struggle already evident in the rise of Trump and the inability of
the Established Order to prevent or abort it. Besides malice and incompetence, we may also
have their synthesis.
Anarcissie ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:03 pm
If you consider social democrat types to be Left -- the 'near Left' -- then they've made
great progress during the reign of Trump. It is true they are nowhere near dominance as yet,
but in any case the stuff the Deep State factions are struggling over, war, empire, funny
money, and other con games, are inherently corrupt and corrupting, and formal dominance could
only mean submission to the rules of the Game. Probably better to lose influentially; victory
is death.
In the case of Epstein, I was thinking not that he was a principal who had to be offed
because he ' knew too much ', but was more like the racehorse whose head winds up in
someone's bed. Or hearing that someone has been given plutonium tea. 'We can do this,
sucker!'
JohnnyGL ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:29 pm
Yeah, I find this plausible. It's almost like the authorities were laying the groundwork for 'solving' the Epstein
problem, and someone decided, "he's got to go .NOW" and failed to 'suicide' him a couple of
weeks ago and decided to have another crack at it and got it done, this time.
Now the establishment is scrambling to get into clean up mode and need to get their story
straight. In the meantime, all these weird, confusing bits and pieces are coming out and it
is hard to know what to believe, what's just junk info, and what is an open attempt to
gas-light us into thinking crazy stuff ..only so it can be 'debunked' later to help shore up
credibility to the 'official' story.
Obviously, with so few facts .we can only speculate .and have fun doing so!
elissa3 ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:55 pm
A more elaborate take on factional struggle:
https://www.oftwominds.com/blogaug19/deep-state-war8-19.html
False Solace ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:53 pm
It seems clear that we're witnessing a factional struggle play out among the elites.
Epstein had been cooling his heels for years but was suddenly returned to the chessboard,
weaponized for reasons unknown by persons unknown against other factions unknown. And
subsequently removed from the board. I agree with the vast majority of Americans -- it seems
unlikely that a sadistic narcissist, a smug multimillionaire who got away with everything
once already, who had many powerful friends, would fall into despair so quickly. It strains
credulity to believe that a techno-fantasist who believed in cryo-preservation would decide
to off himself in a way that made such techniques impossible. If we ever find out what
actually happened it will be 50 years from now when the parties responsible are on their
deathbeds.
As for the lack of detailed reporting -- I think this is an effect of two things. First,
the fact that print media has been gutted over the last two decades. There are far fewer
reporters than before. Blog writing has also declined dramatically, which means there are
fewer writers able and willing to aggregate and analyze whatever reporting exists. Second,
the few reporters who remain are comfortable elites who spend most of their time on Twitter.
Social media provides an echo chamber with a lot of noise, very short turnarounds with no
time for reflection, and very little scope for detailed arguments or details. Mainstream
reporters are very concerned with maintaining their image as insiders. Challenging the
establishment narrative means death for their careers.
The Epstein is the test case for reporting in the modern era. This is the new normal.
tegnost ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:38 am
Right. The same fbi that spent the past few years discrediting trump has now handed him
the ability to bribe the world. Sure thing. But hey, we're no longer pondering the various
failings of RRR hysteria. I'll raise bobby gladd's occams meat axe to occams battle axe. An
unfathomable chocolate mess. No such thing as "the truth" will likely ever be known. Wagging
the dog.
Michael Fiorillo ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:38 am
I can't add much to Yve's excellent post and the follow-up comments, except to say that
the events of recent days and weeks have made Pizzagate (as deranged as it was) into some
kind of weird Jungian premonition which is to say, the s&#* is out of control. When Trump was first elected, I tried to calm down friends with advanced TDS, who expected
Kristallnacht to be directed at their favorite brunch spots, by saying that "This is what
empires in decline look like."
In regard to this sordid tale, I'm reminded of Robert Graves' (and the superb BBC TV
version of) "I, Claudius."
"Don't eat the figs."
adrena ,
August 14, 2019 at 11:48 am
In this sordid world, girls/women have absolutely no value.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:16 pm
Don't forget the young boys who get traded around like fudge recipes.
Something quick on the Hollywood angle on bent dicks. It applies almost everywhere in America
now: https://news.avclub.com/corey-feldman-made-a-documentary-about-sexual-abuse-he-1834310252
My reinterpretation of your comment would be; In this sordid world, people without power have
absolutely no value.
Otherwise, I'm with you all the way. Abuse is abuse. No other definition is logical.
diptherio ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:38 pm
According to the Mint Press series on Epstein and his mentor, boys were also procured for
those who were so inclined.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:01 pm
For what it is worth, in a comment above, I asked about the autopsy. Later in weaseling
around the interwebs I came across this from a site called "The Intelligencer." Anyone know
much about the reliability and truthiness of this site? I do not, but the piece is fairly
straight forward, except for the almost de rigeur defense of the Clintons and low level
smearing of Trump. It also trots out the "overworked and understaffed jail" defense.
Herein: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/jeffrey-epstein-dies-by-suicide-report.html
Bobby Gladd ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:36 pm
"the overarching mission of this website is to promote critical thinking."
I've always regarded the phrase "critical thinking" with a bit of concern–even
though I taught it at my university for a number of years (adjunct faculty serf). An
inordinate number of my (partial "math credit"-seeking) students came to it anticipating
"oh, boy, we're just gonna get to endlessly argue about shit, and I can vent my
frustrations."
Disappointment invariably ensued in short order.
Duck1 ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:54 pm
Well, have read quite a few articles and blogposts. In no particular order, many imply
that E knew he would be arrested at Teterborough, yet no explanation of his omniscience about
the indictment. If he is dead, one reasonable assumption might be that his brother is trustee
of his estate, yet no one approaches him. Many claim E was filming people for blackmail, but
seems to be a mere assertion. No one talks to Acosta.
Peter L. ,
August 14, 2019 at 12:58 pm
Hi All,
I was curious about the frequency of suicide at the Manhattan Correctional Center
(MCC).
Before getting to that, I wanted to mention that I appreciate the succinct expression of a
problem: " but with the rise in social media, the reaction to a news story often overwhelms
the underlying event." I feel this is exactly what we face in this case. I'm overwhelmed by
the response, and am having some trouble figuring out what to pay attention to.
I used google to search for "MCC number suicides" and found a Fox story, https://www.foxnews.com/us/epstein-new-york-lockup-suicides
, which says that "Published reports tally only one suicide and three attempted suicides in
the past 40 years at the Manhattan Correctional Center, which came under fire after Epstein's
death early Saturday."
I wonder if "published reports" refers to official counts from the prison itself, or just
media stories. If the Fox tally is close to being accurate for the prison, this might
indicate that suicide is highly unusual in that facility.
My naive hunch was that suicide in jails was common, but perhaps in a facility such as MCC
it is more rare. (By the way, rather frustrating to me is that in the google search results
that came up there are several stories about prison and jail suicides in general, but only
the Fox News report had a frequency specific to MCC. Rather depressingly, for example, a
writer in the Atlantic invokes Sandra Bland in the same paragraph as Mr. Epstein, as though
these are sensible comparisons. In that article, the author ignores the especially relevant
question of the MCC success or failure at preventing suicides.)
This seems like a "baseline" fact that might be useful as we make judgments about how this
event happened.
tim ,
August 14, 2019 at 1:28 pm
Hello
I think John Kiriakou nailed it:
https://consortiumnews.com/2019/08/14/john-kiriakou-how-a-suicide-watch-really-works/
Kurtismayfield ,
August 14, 2019 at 2:18 pm
Bear with me, as I am totally out of my depth when it comes to SOP involving autopsies. It
is already completed, but hasn't been released:
Post article on autopsy not being released but finished
"Today, a medical examiner performed the autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein," said Chief Medical
Examiner Dr. Barbara Sampson in a statement Sunday night.
"The ME's determination is pending further information at this time. At the request of
those representing the decedent, and with the awareness of the federal prosecutor, I
allowed a private pathologist (Dr. Michael Baden) to observe the autopsy examination. This
is routine practice."
What would be the reasoning for this?
#1. Something suspicious was found and they want to double check with the prosecutor?
#2. They need to run it by officials before it is released?
#3. They are unsure of their findings and need further info?
This whole situation is just strange, and for them to need more info before completing the
autopsy when it is suspected to be death by suicide makes it weirder.
False Solace ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:39 pm
Dr Michael Baden has been all over social media lately. His Wikipedia entry notes the following: Known for: Testimony at the O. J. Simpson trial · Investigations of the John F.
Kennedy and Martin Luther King assassinations. Certainly an interesting guy.
Knot Galt ,
August 14, 2019 at 3:20 pm
Maybe a dry run for how American autocrats will treat Assange? As for precedent, there is the July 5, 2006 Kenneth Lay death.
ambrit ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:23 pm
Who has custody of the 'blackmail' evidence, if any?
blackerman ,
August 14, 2019 at 4:57 pm
It was reassuring, in a perverse way, to see Yves finger precisely what has seemed most
odd about the days following his 'apparent' suicide: the complete absence of reporting on the
most simple, basic questions, things like the layout of his cell, the regularity of video
cams, the layout of the prison, the identity of his second cell-mate, etc. The things that
would begin to give the public a picture of what has transpired. It's all frustratingly
blank.
So I'll add my obvious question to pool to those that no one is even bothering to answer:
1. When someone is taken off of Suicide Watch, who needs to be contacted? Wouldn't the
Prosecutors have to be told–particularly in a high-profile case where the suspect
allegedly tried to take his life a few days ago? Were they contacted, and what was their
position? Did they approve of it? It seems impossible for me to imagine that they were
unaware that he was no longer being monitored, and yet that simple question has, as far as I
can tell, yet to be asked. It's being presented in the media as though it were all a set of
decisions all internal to the MCC.
2. When he allegedly tried to take his life once before, what were the details? All we were
told is that he was found unconscious or nearly unconscious on the floor of his cell with
marks on his neck. But what's the picture here? Flesh is out just a tiny bit more. Was there
something hanging from the ceiling that he had fallen out of? Was there something still
around his neck? Those two details couldn't be more plain and obvious and presumably easy to
answer–and if neither is the case, then the picture of someone unconscious on the floor
with marks on their neck tells a very different story.
barrisj ,
August 14, 2019 at 6:41 pm
News stories suggest that Epstein's legal team requested to MCC that their client be taken
of suicide watch would they now be considered as part of "the conspiracy to murder Jeffery
Epstein"?
roxan ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:31 pm
I used to do suicide watch on some of my jobs. There is no way someone could hang
themselves in those stripped down high security cells, whether anyone is watching or not.
It's relatively easy to hang oneself, but I don't think anyone could just strangle
themselves, intentionally. I also found diagrams of the cells on that wing by googling.
Pretty barren. I wonder if the substitute guard was really an assassin? We will never know,
of course, but I sure would have loved to hear Epstein 'tell all.'
grayslady ,
August 14, 2019 at 5:41 pm
Critical thinking is all we have left, it seems. The great investigative reporters, such
as Bob Parry, went independent a long time ago. Since I haven't seen it mentioned yet,
Epstein verbally hired a new attorney, David Schoen, to head up his legal team just days
before he died. As far as I can tell, only Fox News, the Atlanta Journal Constitution and the
Atlanta Jewish Times picked up the story, the latter source being the most comprehensive
interview of Schoen. If the legacy media/elite propaganda press wanted to do a deep dive on
Epstein, any one of the reporters could have started with the visitor log at the prison and
found Schoen's name. The Schoen story has been out for two days now, but it appears that none
of the major papers outside of Atlanta has picked up on this.
Schoen, who met with Epstein for five hours has a lot of interesting observations. To wit
(from the article):
"I don't believe it was suicide. I think someone killed him."
Schoen noted media reports that Epstein had attempted to commit suicide on July 23.
"That was not a suicide attempt," Schoen said. "It involved another inmate."
Putting on my critical thinking hat, the information in the Schoen interview confirms that
Epstein continued to believe he just needed the right lawyers to, again, escape retribution.
As to the first "suicide" attempt, the other inmate Schoen references is likely Tartaglione,
who strikes me as the kind of self-absorbed, self-righteous vigilante that law enforcement
seems to attract. Tartaglione was Epstein's roommate–body builder, former Briarcliff
Manor cop–that Briarcliff Manor seemed happy to pay off just to get him off the force.
Tartaglione's lawyer says that he and Epstein got on well together, but then he would say
that, wouldn't he? You don't want to prejudice your client's chances before he goes to trial.
However, those who remember John Kiriakou's Letters from Loretto, on the former Firedog Lake
website, remember that even someone as reasonable as Kiriakou exhibited a white hot rage when
he spoke about the pedophiles at Loretto. So one question to ask is when, exactly, was
Tartaglione transferred to a different cell than the one he shared with Epstein? Also, why
hasn't the medical examiner at least come out with the time of death?
If Tartaglione's
transfer was only a few hours before the prison says it found Epstein unresponsive, is it
possible that Tartaglione was responsible for Epstein's death, and that the rest of the story
about "suicide" is actually a desperate attempt by the MCC to cover up incompetence by
staging a hanging? I don't know, but critical thinking tells me it's disturbing that very few
media outlets are covering Schoen's testimony.
