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Syria civil war: attempt of the USA to create Sunny Theocracy instead of secular Assad government

The testing ground for false flag poisonings: White Helmets as a tool for false flag poisonings

News War is racket Recommended Links Downing of IL-20 reconnaaisance plane Israeli support of headchoppers and air raid on Syria military infrastructure  
False flag poisonings Khan Sheikhoun gas attack Douma gas attack      
White Helmets as a tool for false flag poisonings Hillary role in Syria bloodbath Neocon foreign policy is a disaster for the USA American Imperialism American Exceptionalism Wolfowitz Doctrine
Media-Military-Industrial Complex New American Militarism Nation under attack meme Inside "democracy promotion" hypocrisy fair "F*ck the EU": State Department neocons show EU its real place Hillary Clinton and Obama created ISIS
Cold War II Pathological Russophobia of the US elite Merkel as Soft Cop in Neocon Offensive on Eastern Europe and Russia Madeleine Albright Is Hillary Clinton a war criminal? Samantha Power
Robert Kagan Anatol Leiven on American Messianism Demonization of Putin Predator state National Socialism and Military Keysianism Roots of Reaganolatry 
Neoliberalism as a New form of Corporatism Neocolonialism as Financial Imperialism IMF as the key institution for neoliberal debt enslavement Neo-fascism Gangster Capitalism: The United States and the Globalization of Organized Crime Power abroad rests on justice and decency at home
The Deep State Amorality and criminality of neoliberal elite Corporatist Corruption: Systemic Fraud under Clinton-Bush-Obama Regime Two Party System as polyarchy Neoliberal Propaganda: Journalism In the Service of the Powerful Few Corporatism
Color revolutions Neoliberal Compradors and lumpenelite Neocons Credibility Scam Obama: a yet another Neocon   Conservatives Without Conscience
War is a Racket - Incredible Essay by General Smedley Butler Machiavellism Understanding Mayberry Machiavellis Bureaucracy as a Political Coalition Bureaucratic avoidance of responsibility Bureaucratic Collectivism
Media domination strategy Fighting Russophobia Anti-Americanism Torture Politically Incorrect Humor Etc

“Control over the production and distribution of oil is the decisive factor in defining who rules whom in the Middle East.”
Christopher Hitchens, The Quotable Hitchens from Alcohol to Zionism: The Very Best of Christopher Hitchens

“Anthing that can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence”
Windsor Mann, The Quotable Hitchens: From Alcohol to Zionism--The Very Best of Christopher Hitchens

The key idea heind unleashing civil war in cyria using Weapons from Libya and jihadist voluteers from several Arab countries is to reverse the geopolitical gift to Iran which Bush Iraq war created.

Installation of fundamentalist government in Syria also is in the best interests of Israel as this is by definitely a weak sectarian government that terrorizes its own population.  That's why they openly supported head choppers during Syrian civil war.  Politics make strange bedfellows: Izreal and Saudi Arabia.

Political Islam emerges are a reaction to colonialism but now it serve as a puppet of neoliberals to weaksen and destroy secular governments in Arab countries and to weaken territorial integrity of Russia.  So Russia in an indirect way is interested in preservation of secur goverment in Syria as cration of another large traning camp for jihadism is not in their best interest.

The problem is that the US elite lost people who participated in WWII who understood the consequnces of WWIII. now the US is represented by chichenhasks such as Trump, Bolton and the whole gallery of female chichenharks (which were floring in Obana administraion) such as Haley.

This generation of the US elite is idoctrinbated is the "sole super[ower" status and has difficulties to adapting to new realities when economically china will be larger then the USA in 2020 and militiary Russia is on par in some major catagories, returing the situation of mutual assured destruction (MAD) that the USA tried to destrowy (and for some suceeded in 1991-2000 due to collapse of the USSR and Yeltsin marionette government ) since Reagan.

Chemical attacks false flag as a standard method of pursuing civil war by West-connected islamists

Poisoning false flag are the  favorite tackits of British intelligence  services and it was important to Syria by MI6 supported organizations such as White Helmets.  They proved to be  perfectly suibale for Islamists barbarians (aka "head choppers")  who do not care much about human cost and can kill children and woman in cold blood to achive their goals.

One of the most interesting features of Syria civil war is the extent of the chemical attacks false flags by islamists to inflict the damage on Assad forces.  They usually resort to it when they are against the wall and need some time to recouperate of scape or surrender on more favoarabel conditions.

In this sense political Islam is a national liberation movement that "took the wrong turn on the road"  and which was co-opted by the neoliberals to serve as their geopolitical ram.  Instead of fighting Western neoliberal neo-imperialism they are helping them.

There were at least three provable false flag operation of this type


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[Oct 12, 2018] Father Dani l in Syria 'Fake News is Imposed With Great Enthusiasm in the West, While Channels of Truth Are Closed' by Bahar Azizi

Notable quotes:
"... Hand in Hand voor Syrië, ..."
"... The most flagrant case is Syria where a war was orchestrated by "proxy groups" by Western powers and the Petro monarchies of the Gulf States. Before the war, Syria was a country that could support itself in terms of food and industrialization with a well-developed population that enjoyed a modern health system. The "strategy of the chaos" imported hoards of mercenaries of which the Syrian government can hardly get rid of after 8 years of war (2011-2018). The imperialist intervention, meant to fight this state that refused to obey, has driven 5 million people from their homes" ..."
"... L'intervention and Libye, la pire erreur de ce début de siecle ..."
"... Propaganda Blitz. How the Corporate Media Distort Reality ..."
"... For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities of this dark world ... ..."
Oct 11, 2018 | www.sott.net
Living in Syria in the sixth-century Mar Yakub monastery in the city of Qara, 90 kilometers north of the capital Damascus, Flemish Father Daniël Maes has been a witness to the invasion of western-backed terrorists since the very beginning. To this day, he and his friends continue to support the Syrian people by not only helping them directly, but also by spreading the truth about what is truly going on in the country.

Each week, a newsletter written by Father Daniël is published, in which he describes his experiences and thoughts on the situation in Syria. With the help of much needed donations and NGOs such as Hand in Hand voor Syrië, Father Daniël and others have been working tirelessly with the Syrian people liberated from (formerly) terrorist-held areas.

Below, you can read his latest newsletter , as published on September 28th, 2018, and as translated by Sott.net:

Dear friends,

It seems unlikely that the planned military escalation by Western forces to protect the terrorists in Idlib and to risk a last chance to subvert Syria, will continue. The Abou al-Dohour safe zone basically ensures that citizens can escape the terrorist-controlled Idlib. This was largely guaranteed by the agreement between Russia and Turkey. And Putin seems determined to impose a no-fly zone over all of Syria! Well done. Meanwhile, the Syrians continue to work very diligently on the restoration of their country and society. After the fantastic course of the 60th annual fair last Friday, a 'marathon of peace' was organized to support those who work for the end of the war and the restoration of peace. This marathon was held in Hama, Homs, Lattakia, Tartous and Sweida.

At the same time, a limited bicycle race was organized in Damascus for 200 cyclists from the Ommayade mosque through the city.

In Qara there was one crossroad that was full of rubble for years. It was the place where the hardest fighting took place in 2013. Well, the debris is finally cleared up. And between the monastery and the Ante-Lebanon Mountains people have been working hard lately. The so-called Qara 4 gas source is now operational. It delivers 120,000 cubic meters of gas and 100 condensed barrels every day. We pray and hope that there will be a definitive end to this war and the Syrian people can fully develop their identity.

Father Daniël then goes on to sharing news about the community, his reflection on the root causes of the refugee problem, and a warning with regard to the "official fake news":
Preparation

We want to have a quiet retreat in the community and some preparation has been made for this. On Monday, we visited Sadad and the Syrian Orthodox community with some sisters and a guest, with whom we now maintain a close contact. We visited the "martyress" of the village again, the old woman, who was all alone, was left behind by terrorists to die but recovered. She received a shed that is now being converted into a two-room house, which she proudly showed us.

We prayed together in the church and visited a number of villagers. The pastor abou Michaiel and the Christians count on us that we also continue to help them financially. It is mainly about the purchase of material for the reconstruction, they will do the work themselves. Tuesday and Wednesday were still preparation days to start with a real quiet retreat for the whole community on Thursday. Hopefully more about that next time. So, you won't be getting a message about the war around us this time, we are committing to the struggle in ourselves right now.

Ministerial visit

This week we were again visited by the Minister of Supply together with his wife. They were with us before. He practically has the function of the patriarch Joseph in Egypt during the famine. He asked mother Agnes-Mariam to help find the means to offer more people work in agriculture so that they can provide themselves with their own food. In Aleppo we have been able to help 5,000 families. He also asked in India (mother Agnes-Mariam will briefly give a retreat in India) to find out whether material and prostheses can be shipped from there for disabled people.

From our monastery MSJM (Saint Jacques le Mutilé) about 1,000 people are now employed as paid workers in relief efforts throughout Syria. In the beginning we received a lot of opposition and suspicion. Meanwhile, there is a strong and good spirit with five responsible people, with mother Agnes-Mariam assuming the final responsibility. Now, big organizations are coming to us to work with us. However, the first and foremost impulse always starts with simple, sincere people who give their contribution with generosity. That is why we would like to express our sincere thanks to all our benefactors.

Our wars, our refugees

The continuing flow of refugees from the Middle East and Africa to Europe is a humanitarian drama for these people themselves and is also a threat to the countries in which they seek refuge. In this regard, two attitudes are mainly present. Some respond from a humanitarian point of view and want these people who are in need to be helped and taken care of. The others want to defend the identity of their country to for example prevent a Christian country from being flooded with Muslims who do not want to adapt and who create their own areas where the authentic population can not even visit.

However, what is missing too often is the question about the actual cause and background of the problem. When you return home and you see that the water is flowing out the front door, do you first look for buckets and mops to remove the water from your house? No. You first search for the cause of this flooding. And then you see, for example, that you have left the faucet of the sink open while the stopper was in. So the very first thing you do is close the tap.

There can be many causes that trigger a flow of refugees, but almost always they involve rich Western countries who want to master the resources of other countries. Under the pretext of "freedom and democracy" these countries are being disrupted, a change of government is being worked on, and puppets are being appointed to ensure the interests of the West.

" The most flagrant case is Syria where a war was orchestrated by "proxy groups" by Western powers and the Petro monarchies of the Gulf States. Before the war, Syria was a country that could support itself in terms of food and industrialization with a well-developed population that enjoyed a modern health system. The "strategy of the chaos" imported hoards of mercenaries of which the Syrian government can hardly get rid of after 8 years of war (2011-2018). The imperialist intervention, meant to fight this state that refused to obey, has driven 5 million people from their homes" . (Bruno Guigue, 23 september 2018: Link )

The US and the Western powers proclaim that they no longer have colonial policies, that they only want to ensure freedom and democracy, defend human rights and, finally, defend their own national security and interests. Those who claim their sovereignty must also recognize the sovereignty and interests of other countries. And that is precisely not the case. The military intervention by Western countries is not the solution, but the problem itself. It is the French troops in Mali, Niger (rich in uranium), Chad, Central African Republic that ensure that the countries remain dependent and poor.

It is NATO that destroyed Libya with active participation from Belgium and France. After the Belgian "aid" to Libya, there was hardly a bomb left in Belgium. No "mea culpa" came from any country for this total devastation (Jean-François Kahn, L'intervention and Libye, la pire erreur de ce début de siecle , Le Soir, 25/9/18; about this well-known French journalist see: Link ). The invasions of Somalia (1992), Afghanistan (2001), Iraq (2003) destroyed these countries. The aggression of Saudi Arabia with active support from the West against Yemen has killed 10,000 people since March 2005, causing a deadly cholera epidemic and famine for 8 million people.

Certainly, there are several causes of the refugee flow. However, the most important remains the neo-colonial domination of Western powers who shamelessly and with military force appropriate the richness of other countries. Subsequently, there is often a corrupt elite of the country itself who have allowed themselves to be bribed to betray their own people. Finally, there are Mafia bosses who set up an extremely lucrative business to get the refugees across. Let's stop whining about the shortage of mops, pullers, buckets, and turn off the tap. These are our wars and our aggression against other countries that are making people flee. If we want to assert our sovereignty, we must also respect the sovereignty of other countries and their interests.

Ready for the battle for your mind!

The spreading of false, incorrect or misleading information, 'fake news', is a problem. The European Union is working diligently on a strategy to combat this ailment. The East StratCom Task Force was already set up for this purpose in 2015. Certain guidelines have been developed and at the end of this year we can expect more concrete actions.

However, there's a catch. Let's make it clear immediately. We are getting more and more into a situation where fake news is imposed with great enthusiasm by government leaders, politicians, official statements, authoritative media and acclaimed journalists, who conceal reality, while the channels of honest researchers who bring the truth, are closed expertly. The justification is then: We must defend European values. That free speech and the obligation to tell the truth are also values, is then forgotten. Or real news and truthful reporting are condemned as being a "conspiracy theory". Or, as we now experience with the announcement of the criminal behavior of the Dutch government, which smoothly helps with the slaughter of innocent Syrian people, says that it should not come to light because it is a "state secret".

The example we know best is of course Syria. A very harmonious, prosperous and particularly safe (albeit imperfect) society with a President who is supported by broad sections of the population is suddenly presented as a terrible dictatorship with a gruesome dictator. The CIA provided an abundance of false photos, films, reports, books, testimonies of inhuman torture (the American prisons remain an inexhaustible source for this) that were spread throughout the West. And everyone (including our "conflict journalist"!) "knew", almost one day after another, how that terrible Syrian president strangled people all day, tortured them to death and carried out chemical attacks.

Something like that makes the blood of every right-minded person boil and that makes a heavy-handed military intervention more than justified. When someone dared to say that there was no "popular uprising" in Syria and certainly no "civil war", that Syria had not committed any chemical attacks at all, he was dismissed as unreliable, fake news. And so the US, Israel, NATO and allies could continue to send their most fanatical terrorists to destroy the country and take away oil, gas and sovereignty. In our own Flemish press I never read one balanced article about the situation in Syria.

In the end it is about the loss of credible journalism. For England, this is now greatly described by David Edwards and David Cromwell, Propaganda Blitz. How the Corporate Media Distort Reality , Pluto Press, 2018, foreword by John Pilger. They show how the liberal media give half-truths and whole lies or sometimes represent reality in reverse, in the service of large interest groups. And the writers of this work are not even journalists but a former professor and an oceanographer. It will become increasingly difficult to discover reality, but it is not impossible. The Australian journalist and founder of WikiLeaks, Julian Assange, is now imprisoned at the Embassy of Venezuela in London but in reality deserves a monument to what he has made public. There are undoubtedly many more people than we suspect, who are aware of the prevalent lies.

Anyone who has any insight into the ever-recurring anti-Russia, anti-Iran, anti-China, anti-Brexit... hysteria on the one hand and on the other Western unlimited war propaganda, justified by the most unlikely pretext to dominate the rest of the world, will soon find more reliable sources. It is also necessary. " For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities of this dark world ... " (Ephesians 6, 12). And by our attitude, we are always either on the side of the murderers or on the side of the innocent victims. We are called to be people of peace and not silly servants of hatred and war, which we conveniently want to package in a message of peace.

Bahar Azizi

Bahar Azizi lives in Europe, holds an MA in psychology, is an instructor in Éiriú Eolas meditation , and is a keen animal lover. Bahar has been a contributing writer and editor at SOTT.net since 2012.

[Oct 12, 2018] Putin, the responsible adult, is doing the World a huge favor with his Syrian S300 therapy

Oct 12, 2018 | turcopolier.typepad.com

Barbara Ann , a day ago

Excellent roundup Patrick, thanks.

I believe that is a truly pivotal piece by Gideon Levy in Haaretz and I share his sentiment and cautious optimism. Israel behaves as a child. It has been spoilt by being allowed to do as it pleases for far too long and by an over protective parent who comes running every time it throws a tantrum. Putin, the responsible adult, is doing the World a huge favor with his Syrian S300 therapy. These 2 paragraphs are spot on:

"Russia, without meaning to, may yet turn out to be better for Israel than all the insane, corrupting support it receives from the current American administration, and from its predecessors, too.

Russia has outlined for the world the way to treat Israel, using the only language Israel understands. Let those who truly care for Israel's welfare, and for justice, learn how it's done: Only by force."

[Oct 12, 2018] CIA democrat Obama was 100% involved in unleashing Syria war

Oct 12, 2018 | www.moonofalabama.org

Harry , Oct 12, 2018 10:05:33 AM | link

@ Schmoe | 27

I see references again and again (and then again), that Obama started the war in Syria. It is pretty well established that the CIA started this "uprising" in 2011, but the only credible article on Obama's involvement that I have read was a NYT article a year ago saying that Hillary and Nettanyahoo urged Obama to get involved in Syria in 2012, but he declined.

Actually US plans to overthrow Syria's government goes back in decades, and there were multiple attempts to do so. Active preparations for 2011 started in 2005 under Bush, when Assad refused to cut ties with Iran and Hezb.

We know he declined to get the US involved in lobbing missiles after the 2013 alleged chemical attack. Is there any link or article discussing Obama ordering the Syrian uprising

Obama was 100% involved he just didnt want to do expensive direct intervention and rather prefered cheap proxy war with expendable cannon fodder jihadis rather than spend trillions and see the return of US soldiers in body bags. It worked for them in Libya, and Obama thought it will work in Syria and Iraq (he publicly admited they used ISIS to oust Maliki).

[Oct 12, 2018] The Pantsir is a Lord-have mercy self-defense weapon once the Israelis have already decided to come over for another spot of target practice. The S-300 is to tell them in advance to stay the fuck away

Oct 12, 2018 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Mark Chapman October 6, 2018 at 12:32 pm

That might seem on the face of it like common sense, and in a way I suppose it is, but the Pantsir cannot enforce airspace sovereignty the way the S-300 can. The Pantsir is a Lord-have mercy self-defense weapon once the Israelis have already decided to come over for another spot of target practice. The S-300 is to tell them in advance to stay the fuck away.
Patient Observer October 6, 2018 at 3:34 pm
The Russians have shown excellent military planning to date and it would be reasonable to assume that they will continue to do so. If more Pantsirs are needed, they will be provided. I suspect that electronics warfare equipment may be of more significant in terms of defense from further attack.

I would like to see several F-35s shot down. That would do more than anything else to bring peace to the region.

Mark Chapman October 6, 2018 at 9:54 pm
Electronic warfare systems, or what is known as 'soft-kill' systems, enjoy a considerable probability-of-success advantage over 'hard-kill' weaponry such as guns and missiles.

[Oct 12, 2018] Terrorists Want America to Reverse Engineer Russian Machineguns by Michael Peck

Notable quotes:
"... US Special Forces Command wants to copy Russian firearms in the US to give away to proxies around the world ..."
Oct 12, 2018 | russia-insider.com

US Special Forces Command wants to copy Russian firearms in the US to give away to proxies around the world

Wed, Oct 10, 2018 | 500 words 4,029 45 Why would U.S. special forces want to manufacture Russian machine guns?

Just watch any video of a conflict such as Iraq and Syria, and the answer becomes clear. Many of the combatants are using Russian or Soviet weapons, or local copies thereof, from rifles to rocket launchers to heavy machine guns mounted on pickups. Which means that when U.S. special forces provide some of these groups with weapons, they have to scrounge through the global arms market to buy Russian hardware as well as spare parts.

So U.S. Special Forces Command, which oversees America's various commando units, has an idea: instead of buying Russian weapons, why not build their own? That's why USSOCOM is asking U.S. companies to come up with a plan to manufacture Russian and other foreign weapons.

The goal is to "develop an innovative domestic capability to produce fully functioning facsimiles of foreign-made weapons that are equal to or better than what is currently being produced internationally," according to the USSOCOM Small Business Innovation Research proposal .

v76 a day ago ,

"develop an innovative domestic capability to produce fully functioning facsimiles of foreign-made weapons that are equal to or better than what is currently being produced internationally,"

I laughed and stopped reading.

Kjell Hasthi v76 a day ago ,

It is a good story. US needed so many AK-47 for African terrorists group, killing Blacks, they had to build a new factory in Africa to handle demand. There were not that many AK-47 available on the black market

Think about that. Look into a mirror and say slowly
- WE LIBERALS ARE TERRORISTS

Mary Floyd Kjell Hasthi 3 hours ago ,

Actually, that should read: We American politicians and military are terrorists...the worst in the world

[Oct 12, 2018] Russia's answer to this theory? "Let the Israelis test our system and we shall see the results"

Oct 09, 2018 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Northern Star October 9, 2018 at 11:31 am

Very cogent informed reaction to and analysis of the political and military aspects of this rapidly developing story:

https://syria360.wordpress.com/2018/10/09/israel-trains-to-counter-the-s-300-while-russia-expands-towards-lebanon/

"Informed sources said: "Tel Aviv and Moscow have never ceased their regular coordination to monitor and avoid air incidents over the Levant. The downing of the Russian IL-20 and the death of all its 15 crewmen forced Israel to communicate its belligerent intentions much ahead of time to Russia, to put its jets and personnel in safety. Indeed, it was the downing of the IL-20 that speeded up Russia's delivery of the long-awaited S-300 to Syria.

Although Russia possesses high-frequency VHF, tracking systems and radar capable of detecting the F-35 and making it visible, it is another matter to shoot it down with the S-300. Russia's answer to this theory? "Let the Israelis test our system and we shall see the results". (LOL!!!) BTW ..In consideration of certain Stooges-who know who they are- I will restrict my use of "LOL" !!!!!!

However, Israel can fly low, violating Lebanese airspace and avoiding Syrian radar so as to hit objectives in Syria from afar. To avoid this only too plausible scenario, Syria needs to establish a missile protected radar coverage on the eastern chain of mountains on its border with Lebanon, so as to be able to "see" all Israeli jets and the air movement above Lebanon and Israel at all times."

Jen October 9, 2018 at 1:10 pm
As Bernhard at Moon of Alabama notes, if Israeli warplanes were to fly low through Lebanese airspace to avoid Syrian radar, they become targets for Hezbollah's short-range air defense missiles.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/10/syria-sitrep-the-s-300-air-defense-arrives.html#more
Mark Chapman October 9, 2018 at 4:47 pm
Low-level coverage for the S-300 is 25 meters. I don't think you will find too many Israeli pilots willing to fly that low for a full intercept mission, and the attacking aircraft itself cannot see shit at that altitude. The most basic version of the missile can reach out and tap your ass at 47 km at that altitude, in flat terrain. http://aviationweek.com/site-files/aviationweek.com/files/uploads/2015/07/asd_08_06_2015_dossier.pdf

Although the Israelis' Popeye cruise missile can be launched from ground level and has a maximum range about equivalent to that of the basic SA-10, its range at that altitude is basically line-of-sight unless it is receiving external targeting data from an airborne platform which is at a much higher altitude and can see farther. Unfortunately, that re-introduces the original problem.

https://www.onwar.com/weapons/rocket/missiles/Popeye-missile.html

Additionally, this set of circumstances is tailor-made for a technique known as 'SAMbush', in which the S-300 radar goes active to make the attacking aircraft dive for cover taking them into the coverage of a different system (such as Pantsir) which is optimized for low-level detection and engagement, but whose location was unknown up to that moment. Jen alludes to something like this.

As someone mentioned elsewhere, the real test is for Israel to come on out and give it a try. You gotta ask yourself a question – do I feel lucky?

Well, DO ya, punks?

[Oct 12, 2018] Hysterical accusations were being levelled at the Syrian government, in an attempt to engineer immediate air strikes, on the basis of irrelevant evidence, at a time when the people doing this really ought to have known that relevant evidence tests on 'environmental' samples would shortly become available.

Oct 12, 2018 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Cortes October 10, 2018 at 11:59 am

Interesting take on the possible evolution of Hamish de Bee Gees ((c) M Chapman) from accidentally deluded to covering his errors with malice aforethought:

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/10/habakkuk-on-the-roots-of-the-trans-atlantic-cabals.html#more

Mark Chapman October 10, 2018 at 7:12 pm
Delicious. A particularly tasty morsel:

So hysterical accusations were being levelled at the Syrian government, in an attempt to engineer immediate air strikes, on the basis of irrelevant evidence, at a time when the people doing this really ought to have known that relevant evidence – tests on 'environmental' samples – would shortly become available.

When however it was acknowledged that this evidence had become available, the only use to which it was put was to vindicate the – irrelevant – conclusion that sarin had been used: nothing was said about what it had established, or might establish, about who had used it.

Science? We don't need no steenking science.

[Oct 09, 2018] The level of skills in Syria air defence in th past was low

Oct 09, 2018 | www.unz.com

FB says: October 7, 2018 at 5:24 pm GMT 1,600 Words @Hanoodtroll 'Handtroll' issues this challenge

'Explain this'

The subject being 'Operation Mole Cricket' in 1982, when the Israeli air force mounted a successful SEAD operation [suppression of enemy air defenses] against Syria's Russian made SAMs

I will quote from the 1989 issue of Air Power Journal the USAF premier professional publication

'Syrian SAM operators also invited disaster upon themselves. Their Soviet equipment was generally regarded as quite good; Syrian handling of it was appalling.

As noted by Lt Gen Leonard Perroots, director of the US Defense Intelligence Agency, "The Syrians used mobile missiles in a fixed configuration; they put the radars in the valley instead of the hills because they didn't want to dig latrines -- seriously."

The Syrian practice of stationing mobile missiles in one place for several months allowed Israeli reconnaissance to determine the exact location of the missiles and their radars, giving the IAF a definite tactical advantage on the eve of battle.

Even so, the Syrians might have been able to avoid the complete destruction of their SAM complex had they effectively camouflaged their sites; instead, they used smoke to "hide" them, which actually made them easier to spot from the air.

It is ironic that the Syrians, who have been criticized for their strict adherence to Soviet doctrine, chose to ignore the viable doctrine that emphasizes the utility of maneuver and camouflage.

According to a 1981 article in Soviet Military Review, alternate firing positions, defensive ambushes, regular repositioning of mobile SAMs to confuse enemy intelligence, and the emplacement of dummy SAM sites are fundamental considerations for the effective deployment and survivability of ground-based air defenses.'

That excerpt from Air defense expert Dr Carlo Kopp

We note here also that the highly effective Serb air defense in 1999, which stymied a huge force of over 1,000 Nato aircraft for 78 days, did exactly those things that are mentioned here and which the Syrians failed to do

But of course there is more to the story much much more

You see, that wikipedia article that 'Handtroll' links to has a section called 'Background'

And that background is that in previous years the Israeli air force had been thoroughly pasted by the same Syrian and Egyptian air defenses Mole Cricket was Round 2 round 1 having been a much bigger win for the air defenses

As Kopp recounts

'It is widely acknowledged that the Israelis suffered heavy losses of aircraft during the fighting in 1973. Exactly how many were lost to SAMs, and to which type of SAM, has been less well documented. Israeli public claims are that 303 aircraft were lost in combat

The same wikipedia article that 'Handtroll' points to says this

'The losses suffered by Israel in the 1973 war were so high that it indirectly spawned the United States stealth aircraft program, Project HAVE BLUE.

The U.S. estimated that without a solution to the SAM problem, even the United States would suffer depletion of its Air Force within two weeks of a conflict erupting between the U.S. and Soviet Union. The Israelis had lost 109 aircraft in 18 days.'

The Kopp article Surface to Air Missile Effectiveness in Past Conflicts is a good historic breakdown that contrasts the very effective use of Soviet air defense in Vietnam, where the US lost 10,000 aircraft [including 31 B52 strategic bombers] and the various Middle East conflicts where the Arab air defense forces put up a generally spotty record, using the same equipment

The collapse of the extensive Iraqi air defense system in Desert Storm in 1991 is a textbook case although here it is worth noting that a significant factor was that the Iraqi integrated air defense system, KARI [Irak spelled backward] was designed and built by the French, integrating both Soviet and French SAMs into one central network

'Planning for this mission was helped when the CIA contacted the French engineer responsible for designing the Kari IADS and passed along information about its vulnerabilities and limitations.'

The main takeaway from a historical review of air defense versus attacking air power is that human competence is always the overriding factor on both sides just one year after the well-planned and executed Israeli Mole Cricket, the US decided to launch an air raid on Syrian SAMs, which ended in disaster

'Despite official statements, however, the first direct combat in Lebanon between the United States and Syria was both a military and political disaster.

Two of the U.S. planes were shot down either by anti-aircraft rounds and/or approximately forty SAMs; one pilot was killed, another was captured by Syrian forces, and another parachuted safely into the Mediterranean Sea. (The hostage pilot, Lieutenant Robert Goodman, Jr., was held and interrogated in a Syrian prison for thirty days until Reverend Jesse Jackson secured his release.)

Clearly the US raid was poorly planned and ill conceived and they got a beating for their efforts

So clearly the human factor always counts for the most statistics from the history of air combat show that 10 percent of pilots score 90 percent of the kills the 'hawks' while that other 90 percent end up as the victims

That is not to say that technological advance does not play a role clearly it does by the early 1980s a number of SEAD technologies matured that had a big impact in swinging the pendulum back in favor of air power these include standoff jamming pods carried by specialized SEAD aircraft and which targeted the SAM radars properly used, these could degrade radar performance enough to tilt the contest

Other significant advances occurred in anti-radiation missiles designed to home in on the radio emissions from SAM radars as well as airborne emitter locators that could pinpoint radar locations when those were switched on all of these tools, in the right hands, could make a big difference, as they did in Mole Cricket

But military technology is usually a game of leapfrogging the air attacker gains made by the 1980s with jammers and Harms were countered by the 1990s with fundamentally new and much more powerful radars known as 'phased array'

Instead of a parabolic 'dish' antenna, these radars use a flat surface containing numerous [up to thousands] of 'radiating elements' controlled by a computer that can do things that conventional radar cannot this includes much higher beam resolution the ability to track numerous targets at once the ability to efficiently eliminate ground clutter for low flying objects and most important the ability to defeat jamming by means of 'frequency hopping' and reducing radio emissions to the side and rear

At the same time, the US has NOT developed new generations of SEAD weapons the same AN/ALQ99 jamming pod used since the Vietnam war is the front line unit today a jammer is basically a radio emitter, using an antenna and electrical power to send radio waves at a target radar in an attempt to disrupt it by necessity, being carried aloft by an aircraft, the jamming pod is limited in terms of antenna size and available electrical power

Here we see an AN/AL99 pod under the wing of a Grumman EA6B 'Prowler' the small wind turbine at the front supplies electrical power and the transmit antenna inside is a simple small dish type against the big Russian SAM radars [even assuming the jamming aircraft could get close enough to actually do anything] it is like a mosquito versus an elephant

–A Russian phased array radar on an all terrain tracked chassis

The next generation US jammer is still in development and is not expected to come online for another three years even then it will probably be too little too late basic physics tells us that radio is all about electrical power and antenna size considering also the standoff capability of modern Russian SAMs [over 400 km] plus the fact that those ground assets are also protected by fighter aircraft, AWACS etc the advantage has definitely shifted in favor of air defense as Kopp notes in his article, Surviving the Modern Integrated Air Defense System

'The reality of evolving IADS technology and its global proliferation is that most of the US Air Force combat aircraft fleet, and all of the US Navy combat aircraft fleet, will be largely impotent against an IADS constructed from the technology available today from Russian and, increasingly so, Chinese manufacturers.

If flown against such an IADS, US legacy fighters from the F-15 through to the current production F/A-18E/F would suffer prohibitive combat losses attempting to penetrate, suppress or destroy such an IADS.

This is not news to military professionals retired USAF Gen Philip Breedlove former Nato commander for Europe notes

'Right now, we're almost completely dependent on air forces and aviation assets in order to attack the A2/AD problem

We need more long-range, survivable, precision strike capability from the ground We need dense capability -- like the dense A2/AD networks that we face.'

A2/AD meaning the 'anti-access/area denial' zones created by Russian air defense netorks

That pretty much sums it up the physical equation has tilted far in favor of the massive electronic power and firepower that those all terrain mobile SAMs can muster versus what an aircraft can take aloft what Breedlove is saying here is it's time to go back to the drawing board and figure out a new way air power alone is not going to cut it


Avery , says: October 7, 2018 at 6:06 pm GMT

@imaginative {Still trying to learn if these 300s (whether new or old) solve the stated problem:}

S-300, like any other military equipment or hardware, is a tool: you need a good, reliable tool, but you also need a trained operator to properly use that tool. And sometimes it is impossible to train someone, if the material is not there.

SAA in general and Syrian soldiers individually have fought bravely against unbelievable odds.
To wit, the heroic defense of the Kuweires air base by SAA, which was completely cut-off by the terrorist invaders (and their patrons US, UK, France, Turkey, KSA, .). Yet it held out for 2-3 years until liberated recently.

But there is something missing from the overall picture to make SAA a truly competent military force able to defend itself and Syria independently against foreign aggressors. There is an article on the web with the title "Why Arabs lose wars" (not sure if it's the exact title) that examines the reasons. It is worth a read.

Also, poster [FB] discusses in detail in post #110 some of the differences between various nationalities using Soviet/Russian military equipment.

Even if Syria were to get the latest Russian anti-air systems (S-400, S-500, .), they'd have to be operated by Russians (or Serbs) to be truly effective against a competent, technologically savvy adversary like Israel. Syrians have their work cut out for them for sure.

Avery , says: October 7, 2018 at 8:36 pm GMT
@peterAUS This is the article I remember reading, not the book.

[Why Arabs Lose Wars
NORVELL B. DE ATKINE
Middle East Quarterly Volume 6: Number 4
SEPTEMBER 01, 1999]

https://www.meforum.org/articles/other/why-arabs-lose-wars

Anon [424] Disclaimer , says: October 7, 2018 at 8:52 pm GMT
@peterAUS The arabs lose wars .. just like the americans no war won since WWII ( thanks Russia )
annamaria , says: October 7, 2018 at 8:54 pm GMT
@Felix Keverich Let Syrians defend their sovereignty from the Israeli illegal aggression. This is a Syrian war.
George1 , says: October 7, 2018 at 9:44 pm GMT
I am no expert in this area to be sure. However with the unit price of the F-35s, they are capitol assets. The loss of an F-35 for any reason in a combat zone would be a disaster. Yet Trump is sending more of them to Israel in response to the S-300s.

This tit for tat escalation is not doing anyone any good and is potentially dangerous beyond words. Syria had not been a threat to Israel in decades, yet Obama thought it was a good idea to try an take out Assad. I would just like to know why.

Kiza , says: October 7, 2018 at 9:44 pm GMT
@jimmyriddle As far as I understand, the Russians have not turned on any other then the surveillance radar in the S400 complex. Of all the radars in the complex, this one is the least interesting to spy on. The real performance secrets of the system are in other radars. The Russians have not turned on other "action" radars because this would give an opportunity to be studied and because the US and Israeli planes have been declared "friendlies" by Putin.

The proximity of forces gives both sides opportunities to study procedures and technology and both sides are avoiding showing all their cards. But the shooting down of IL20 may have changed the game a little by giving the Russian military more freedom from the political constraints. If the Russian military does turn on its other radars in the S400 complex, then someone "stealthy" will find himself in the drink, in pieces.

In other words, the hope is that now the Russian military will be allowed to defend itself. Otherwise, the Russians will keep suffering more Putin-style accidents in Syria.

Avery , says: October 7, 2018 at 10:36 pm GMT
@peterAUS {The only solution which would work on preventing further losses of Russian men and material there is, effectively, Russians taking over all that. All.
Impossible, of course.}

Only Kremlin knows what ' preventing further losses of Russian men ..' implies, but clearly Russia has taken losses from the day they went in and it does not seem to faze them one bit, judging by their responses over the years to various losses they have incurred: they didn't cut and run.

And I doubt Russia ever intended to fight Syrians' wars for them.
They can't make SAA into the Wehrmacht (or the Red Army of WW2 1942-1945) for sure.
But SAA has done quite well with Russian (and Hezbollah and IRG) help*.
It is an undeniable fact that before Russian AF came in and started cauterizing the cannibal infestation, SAA was on the verge of collapse, and with it the State of Syria. Today what remains of the terrorist invaders is holed up in Idlib: for how long?

And none of this – i.e. Russia's involvement, etc – would have been necessary if Syrians were left alone to sort out their own internal affairs. Russia would not be invited in by Syrian government if external forces intend on dismembering and erasing the State of Syria had not started this war. The blood of 100s of 1,000s of innocent Syrian civilians killed in this war is on their hands: US, UK, France, Turkey, KSA, Israel, various other Gulf states,

btw: what's with the quotation marks for "locals" ?
You don't consider Syrians local?
Syria is one of the oldest countries in the region.
Its composition of people has naturally changed some over the centuries, but Syrians are as local as it gets. And Syria's Alawites, in particular, have been there for millennia (genealogy-wise).

___________
* Only fair, given the massive support ISIS cannibals and assorted other mass-murdering invaders have gotten from outside.

[Oct 09, 2018] S-300s and other military hardware for Syria, by The Saker - The Unz Review

Oct 09, 2018 | www.unz.com

Isabella , says: October 5, 2018 at 4:50 pm GMT

@TheJester Remember before you join with PCR in decrying the incredible degree of patience and restraint that Putin has shown, that should a situation escalate into a probably WWIII – which could happen within a few hours, Russia, population 145 million, would be facing America; Population 330 million, plus probably most of Europe; Population 300 million, plus the 5-eyes vassals; joint pop. almost 100 million.

IN which case, he would have no choice but to pre-emptively empty just about all his nuclear missiles all over America before it could do the same to Russia.

Do you want this?

AWM , says: October 5, 2018 at 11:21 pm GMT
Russia can move plenty of hardware into Syria, but that will not change the fact that Israel is the 800 pounder in the region with more strike options than everybody else combined.
And as far as Israel "illegally" interdicting missiles intended for use against their infrastructure, good luck with that, they certainly don't need anyone's approval.
Sure, some hi tech Russian weapon systems may take out a few Israeli aircraft, but at what cost?
If Putin wants to sell more of his shiny missile systems, he will not try to use them against Israeli forces.
War for Blair Mountain , says: October 6, 2018 at 12:33 am GMT
@AWM In other words, Israel is a psychotically evil nation that is willing to escalate the situation in Syria to the brink of nuclear war.
TheJester , says: October 6, 2018 at 1:03 am GMT
@Isabella Isabella, I'm not understanding what you are saying or what you are presuming. I'm an avid fan of Putin. Indeed, I have imaged myself wearing a "Putin for President" shirt. I'm on his side in the free-for-all of international intrigue and politics.

Under Putin's leadership, one has to be impressed with a country (Russia) that the West has disparaged as an economic rival of Spain yet has developed a stable of advanced military weapons that are superior to anything the United States has in its arsenal. However, a side question: Is this the Russian strategic equivalent of the previous American "Star Wars" program albeit this time designed by Russia to bankrupt the United States? If the F-35 is an example of the US response, this will succeed.

The issue I raise is a real one. The West is paranoid that Russia and China will reach a political, economic, and military accord that will secure the Asian continent for Asians. The British Navy and then the American Navy have historically acted on the periphery to extract natural resources and control international trade. A Russian/Chinese political, economic, and military accord has the benefit of Asians acting on internal lines of communication and making the United States Navy obsolete.

The dilemmas are not unlike those presented to the Germans in the 1st and 2nd World Wars. Could the Germans secure effective internal lines of communication into Asia in time to make the navies of Britain and the United States irrelevant? The Germans failed. However, Russian weapons and the Chinese economy have the potential to finally pull this off.

Hence, the United States with pitifully ineffective support from the EU is desperate to prevent the concord between Russia and China that can materially and perhaps permanently change the power relationships in the world for the first time since the western Middle Ages. The US strategy: divide and conquer.

I imagine myself in Putin's shoes playing three-dimensional chess. (BTW: I can't play three-dimensional chess.) How does one deal with the last desperate throws of the dying American empire without getting involved in the "action-reactions" that led to WWI and WWII? Syria is the perfect scenario for that to happen.

If Putin is forced up against the wall in Syria, what will he do? If a confrontation with the West materializes and he backs down, he is over. The United States has called his bluff. The United States is then free to confront and try to humiliate China in the same way.

However, if Russia calls the US bluff, I'm afraid to imagine the consequences. The US is also over. The danger is that the United States will respond with mindless violence that leads to WWIII.

I wish Putin well. He is better equipped to play and win at three-dimensional chess than any of the current actors in the United States or the European Union in his quest for a multi-polar world.

As an American, I pray Putin succeeds. I want my country back; I want us to return to our origins as a constitutional republic. In the meantime, Putin lives in a deadly jungle created by the death throes of the American Empire. To paraphrase Dylan Thomas, The Empire of the United States,

Does not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the Light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night
[ At the close of Imperial Light ].

SeamusH , says: October 6, 2018 at 3:39 am GMT
@Isabella @Isabella

PCR doesn't "decry" Putin's patience and restraint, he admires it; but he points out that they may entail unforeseen consequences and may ential the irrational responses of the neocons and Israelis. Obviously the Russian military doesn't entirely agree with Putin's "partners" perspective.

SimplePseudonymicHandle , says: October 6, 2018 at 5:26 am GMT

the S-300s are certainly formidable air defense systems, they are not a Wunderwaffe

Most important statement. Repeat over, and over, and over again.

Israelis operate in Syria because of Iran/Hezbollah. Maybe they operate in Syria more than they have to, and they use Iran/Hezbollah as a casus belli , because they are secretly compensated by the Saudis who have it in for the Assad regime. That's conspiratorial, but seems at least as likely as the speculation that "Israelis simply think that they don't have to abide by any kind of norms of behavior." This conspiracy theory also doesn't implicate all Israelis or even the entire Israeli government, it may simply be limited to key individuals in extraordinary positions of power who may be on the offing for riches no one here can imagine in return for some old fashioned corruption.

To try and put a Saker hat on and see this from a Russian point of view, and to also care for Russian servicemen in Syria, and to be realistic about the extent and capabilities and quantity and quality of the assets at the disposal of those who seem determined to act with impunity against international law in Syria under the rubric of opposing Iran/Hezbollah, here's some more ideas:

1. Perhaps Russia should provide substantially more SAM systems than it has openly stated (and maybe it is planning this and wisely not announcing it) – in this vein the Pantsirs-S1/2 the Saker recommends and additional un-enumerated integrated S-300 deployments might satisfy no one should think this is invincible it is simply so far from it – I am sorry Russian tech fanboys, none of this is a Star Wars Nabooian Gungan shield – the tech can be defeated and you are wrong to think anything else but it plays the strongest hand, strongest, and can be part of a larger strategy

2. "Syrian finger on the trigger" is key – avoiding Russia/Israel or Russia/NATO engagement is paramount not least of all because it means Israel/NATO forces cannot rely on Russian restraint and that should have a deterring effect which will allay tensions

but with hands played as strong as they can be:

3. Strategically de-escalate – do this by cooperating with the Chinese and other non-permanent members of the UN Security Council to make as loud a fuss as possible to call for a demilitarization of Syria by both Iran/Hezbollah and Israel following 1980s norms meaning:

Turn the cards, turn the tables

a) under a UN Mandate (that China and Russia should dare the US, UK and France to veto) belligerents such as Russia, NATO, Israel all observe a cease-fire while b) a substantial force of UN Peacekeepers enters Syria does whatever is possible to expel Hezbollah or drive it underground to the point of effective neutering, and c) position themselves strategically so that Israeli strikes would result in hitting UN targets raise stakes further by working the UN in advance to presume Israel will strike a UN target and be ready with the most devastating economic and diplomatic counter-response possible as swiftly as possible – such a response should be calculated to hit the ordinary Israeli citizen/taxpayer and make him as likely as possible to vote in a new government.

The Saker is putting the best face on it he can, but a plain stating is that a military solution isn't in the offing. This is true for everyone. There's not Israeli military "solution", nor Iranian, nor US – there certainly isn't a Russian military solution.

But as far as I can tell the US has no interest in being a hero of a diplomatic solution even though if it was paying any attention, acting with any values, and not allowing the tail to wag the dog but leading with its own agency, it would be the one leveraging the UN exactly as I've described and without need of S300 deployments.
So go ahead Russia. This is the US's show to play, but it's not playing the part. Have at it Understudy!
Play the military cards well so that they arc towards a diplomatic break of tensions and no one should fault Russia for eating empire's Peacemaker lunch when empire is off at the war movies.

Someone needs to be thinking about a diplomatic endgame. It is simply unsafe, at a global level, to have the US, Russia and Israel packed in this small place testing each other this way.

A caution: one shouldn't underestimate Iranian squealing in the event of the success of such measures. The Iranian regime isn't popular and like other regimes relies on wars "over there" to promote stability at home. It must be nice too for the Ayatollahs and Revolutionary Guards to be able to send volatile hotheads a few countries over to blow off steam and occasionally fail to return to the motherland. Genuine diplomatic success in Syria has the potential to be destabilizing in Iran. On the other hand, peace in Syria, leveraged well, can generate economic opportunity for Iran that could offset such concerns.

Alfa158 , says: October 6, 2018 at 4:48 pm GMT
There's one thing I'm surprised you didn't point out in this article. It isn't necessary for the Syrians and Russians to wipe the sky clean of NATO and Israeli aircraft. Western electorates are very leery about ongoing casualties. They expect John Wick action movie sagas of the enemy being exterminated like ants while the good guys collect the occasional photogenic bruise. Even a trickle of losses will erode the public support and political will to continue (well except for the Israelis). What does an F-35 go for, something like $350M a copy? Imagine losing even a few of those plus the file photos of the dead or captured pilots.
El Dato , says: October 6, 2018 at 5:36 pm GMT
My Schwartz is bigger than your Schwartz now in progress. Prepare for affronts.

US to send Israel more F-35s after Moscow supplies S-300s to Syria – reports

The US will reportedly provide Israel with more F-35s after Russia supplied Syria with S-300 missile systems. Moscow's move came in response to the downing of a Russian military plane, which it partly blamed on Israel.

US President Donald Trump decided to lend a hand to America's most devoted ally following consultations at the "highest administration and military levels," DEBKAfile, a military intelligence news site, said to have ties with the Israeli security services, reported.

1) How many F-35 can the US spare?
2) Does it have to tune them to Mediterranean conditions?
3) What about support infrastructure?

and most importantly

4) Does that mean US pilots will be flying or do the Israeli have enough qualified pilots on standby?

jimmyriddle , says: October 7, 2018 at 7:55 pm GMT
One effect of this is to make Israel and the US deploy F35s over Syria. That gives the Russians a good opportunity to study its vulnerabilities.

Naturally, the same goes for whatever variant of S-300 they have deployed, but the F35 is a $1.4 trillion programme. If, like the F-117A, it is found to be fatally compromised by some new radar technology, it will be a total disaster for NATO.

renfro , says: October 7, 2018 at 8:09 pm GMT
@Michael Kenny

precisely what the Israelis intended.

The only thing the Israelis have intended was luring the US to open a semi-military base in Israel so they could set up a false flag attack on it to get the USA to fight their wars for them.

[Oct 02, 2018] Rogue Nations, US, UK, France and Germany in Talks to Attack Warn-Torn, Heroic Syria Without Cause

Oct 02, 2018 | russia-insider.com

[Sep 29, 2018] The Airwaves Are Still Heaving With Spin Two Days After US Airstrikes Against by Sharmine Narwani

Notable quotes:
"... On the ground in Syria, dead civilians - some of them children killed by US bombs - muddied the perfect script. Confused Syrian rebels - many who had called for foreign intervention to help crush the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad – demanded to know how these airstrikes were meant to help them. ..."
"... The Syrian armed forces have spent little time on the ISIL threat because their focus has traditionally been on protecting their interests in Aleppo, Damascus, Homs, Hama – and the countryside in these areas – as well as towns and cities around the Lebanese and Jordanian borders. That changed when ISIL staged successful attacks on Mosul and created new geopolitical urgency for Assad"s allies – which triggered some major Syrian strikes against ISIL targets. ..."
"... Obama has managed to get the whole world singing from the same hymn sheet in just two months, including, and this is important, the three states - Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey - most instrumental in financing, weaponizing and assisting ISIL and other extremist militias inside Syria. ..."
"... For three years, Washington has overlooked and even encouraged illegal and dangerous behaviors from its regional Sunni allies – all in service of defeating Assad. With all eyes on America and expectations that Obama will fail in his War on Terror just like his predecessors, the US is going to have to pull some impressive tricks from its sleeves. ..."
"... Ideally, these would include the shutting down of key border crossings (Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon); punishing financiers of terror and inhibiting the flow of funds and assistance from Washington"s regional allies; cutting off key revenue streams; tightening immigration policies to stem the flow of foreign fighters; disrupting communications networks of targeted terrorist groups; broader intelligence sharing with all regional players; and empowering existing armies and allied militias inside the "chaos zone" to lead and execute ground operations. ..."
"... If there is the slightest deviation from the "guarantees" provided by the US, this trio has plenty of room to maneuver. Iran, for one, has dallied with the Americans in both Iraq and Afghanistan and they know how to cause some pain where it counts. The Russians, for that matter, have many playgrounds in which to thwart US ambitions – most urgently in Ukraine and in Afghanistan, from which the US hopes to withdraw billions of dollars" worth of military equipment by the end of 2014. ..."
"... Reprinted with permission from RT . ..."
Sep 26, 2014 | ronpaulinstitute.org

Kerry Arab Saudi

Undoubtedly the attacks were timed to occur on the eve of the annual gathering of world leaders at the United Nations, so "Coalition" partners could cluster behind the decision to bomb a sovereign state, uninvited.

The irony, of course, is that they are doing so at the UN – the global political body that pledges to uphold international law, peace and stability, and the sanctity of the nation-state unit.

The goal this week will be to keep the "momentum" on a "narrative" until it sinks in.

On day one, heads of state from Turkey, Jordan, Qatar, the UK and France were paraded onto the podium to drum in the urgency of American strikes against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), Jabhat al-Nusra and other militant groups inside Syria.

Every American official – past and present - in the White House rolodex was hooked up to a microphone to deliver canned sound bites and drive home those "messages." In between, video-game-quality footage of US strikes hitting their targets was aired on the hour; clips of sleek fighter jets refueling midair and the lone Arab female fighter pilot were dropped calculatingly into social media networks.

The global crew of journalists that descends annually on the UN for this star-studded political event, enthused over US President Barak Obama"s ability to forge a coalition that included five Arab Sunni states – Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Jordan, Bahrain and the UAE.

Few mentioned that these partners are a mere fig leaf for Obama, providing his Syria campaign with Arab and Muslim legitimacy where he otherwise would have none. Not that any of these five monarchies enjoy "legitimacy" in their own kingdoms – kings and emirs aren"t elected after all – and two of these Wahhabi states are directly responsible for the growth and proliferation of the Wahhabi-style extremism targeted by US missiles.

Even fewer spent time dissecting the legality of US attacks on Syria or on details of the US "mission" – as in, "what next?"

But with a mission this crippled at the outset, it didn"t take long for an alternative view to peek through the thick media fog.

On the ground in Syria, dead civilians - some of them children killed by US bombs - muddied the perfect script. Confused Syrian rebels - many who had called for foreign intervention to help crush the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad – demanded to know how these airstrikes were meant to help them.

Sunni Arabs would be radicalized by these strikes, they warned, as ideologically sympathetic citizens of the Arab coalition states took to their information channels and swore revenge for airstrikes against ISIL and al-Nusra.

The Syrian government, for the most part, remained mute – whether to save face or because they could "smell" the gains coming. Contrary to Washington"s prevailing narrative, privately the story was that the US had informed the Assad government of both the timing and targets of the attacks in advance.

Sources say that the US even provided "guarantees" that no Syrian military or government interests would be targeted. A Reuters exclusive claiming that the US went so far as to provide assurances to Iran, suggests this version is closer to the truth. When US airstrikes against Syria were on the table a year ago, the various parties went through a similar game of footsies. Last September, the Americans backed off – allegedly because of communications from their adversaries that even a single US missile would trigger a warfront against Israel. This time, Washington needed to know that scenario was not going to be activated, and this week they offered the necessary guarantees to ensure it.

Although the Russians and Iranians have publicly lashed out at the illegality of US strikes, they do not seem too worried. Both know – like the Syrian government – that these air attacks could be a net gain for their "Axis."

Firstly, the United States is now doing some useful heavy-lifting for Assad, at no real cost to him. The Syrian armed forces have spent little time on the ISIL threat because their focus has traditionally been on protecting their interests in Aleppo, Damascus, Homs, Hama – and the countryside in these areas – as well as towns and cities around the Lebanese and Jordanian borders. That changed when ISIL staged successful attacks on Mosul and created new geopolitical urgency for Assad"s allies – which triggered some major Syrian strikes against ISIL targets.

But to continue along this path, the Syrians would have to divert energy and resources from key battles, and so the American strikes have provided a convenient solution for the time being.

Secondly, the Syrians have spent three years unsuccessfully pushing their narrative that the terrorism threat they face internally is going to become a regional and global problem. The US campaign is a Godsend in this respect – Obama has managed to get the whole world singing from the same hymn sheet in just two months, including, and this is important, the three states - Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey - most instrumental in financing, weaponizing and assisting ISIL and other extremist militias inside Syria.

Syria, Iran, Russia, Hezbollah and a host of like-minded emerging powers are pleased about this new laser focus on jihadi terror and for the accompanying resource shift to address the problem.

Thirdly, the US has now been placed in the hot seat and will be expected to match words with action. For three years, Washington has overlooked and even encouraged illegal and dangerous behaviors from its regional Sunni allies – all in service of defeating Assad. With all eyes on America and expectations that Obama will fail in his War on Terror just like his predecessors, the US is going to have to pull some impressive tricks from its sleeves.

Ideally, these would include the shutting down of key border crossings (Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon); punishing financiers of terror and inhibiting the flow of funds and assistance from Washington"s regional allies; cutting off key revenue streams; tightening immigration policies to stem the flow of foreign fighters; disrupting communications networks of targeted terrorist groups; broader intelligence sharing with all regional players; and empowering existing armies and allied militias inside the "chaos zone" to lead and execute ground operations.

Thus far, there are signs that some of these things are already happening, with possibly more to come.

Now for the fun part. The Syrians, Iranians and Russians do not fundamentally trust Washington or its intentions. The suspicion is that the US is on another one of its regime-change missions, displaying its usual rogue-state behavior by violating the territorial integrity of a sovereign state under false pretenses, and that it will shortly revert to targeting the Syrian government.

While they can see clear gains from the current level of US intervention – as distasteful as they find it - they are watching carefully as events unfold.

If there is the slightest deviation from the "guarantees" provided by the US, this trio has plenty of room to maneuver. Iran, for one, has dallied with the Americans in both Iraq and Afghanistan and they know how to cause some pain where it counts. The Russians, for that matter, have many playgrounds in which to thwart US ambitions – most urgently in Ukraine and in Afghanistan, from which the US hopes to withdraw billions of dollars" worth of military equipment by the end of 2014.

All understand that Washington has just assumed a risky public posture and that many, many things can go wrong. The Sunni Arab fig leaf can disappear in a nano-second if domestic pressures mount or revenge attacks take place internally. Information could leak about continued assistance to terrorist militias from one or more of its coalition partners – a huge embarrassment for Washington and its wobbly Coalition. ISIL will almost certainly act against coalition partner soft-targets, like carrying out further kidnappings and executions. Continued airstrikes will almost definitely result in a growing civilian casualty count, turning those "hearts and minds" to stone. Syrian rebels could swiftly turn against the US intervention and radicalize further. Massive displacement caused by airstrikes could exacerbate the humanitarian crisis.And as in all other past US military War-on-Terror adventures, terrorism could thrive and proliferate in quantum leaps.

As Moscow-based political analyst Vladimir Frolov noted to the Washington Post:

The United States has underestimated the complexity of the situation before, so let's just wait until they run into problems.
The idea that US military engagement could continue for the long-term is unlikely given the myriad things that can go wrong fast. Obama is going to be reluctant to have his last two years in office defined by the hazardous Syrian conflict – after all, he was to be the president who extracted America from unessential wars.

But the most compelling reason that this Coalition will not pass the first hurdle is that its key members have entirely different ambitions and strategic targets.

Over a decade ago, these US-engineered coalitions were wealthier, less-burdened and shared common goals. Today, many of the coalition members face domestic economic and political uncertainties – and several states are directly responsible for giving rise to ISIL. How can the Coalition fight ISIL and support it, all at once?

What"s missing is a formula, a strategy, a unified worldview that can be equally as determined as the ideological adversary it faces.

Down the road, we will discover that the only coalition able and willing to fight extremism does indeed come from inside the region, but importantly, from within the conflict zone itself: Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran. For starters, they are utterly vested in the outcome of their efforts – and would lead with political solutions alongside military ones. Those elusive boots-on-the-ground that everyone is seeking? They live it. Pit that group against Obama"s Coalition-of-the-Clueless any day and you know which side would win handily.

The question is, can this Coalition stomach a solution it is working so hard to avoid? Will it partner with vital regional players that were foes only a few months ago? It is doubtful. That would require a worldview shift that Washington is still too irrational to embrace.

Reprinted with permission from RT .

[Sep 29, 2018] Rogue Nations, US, UK, France and Germany in Talks to Attack Warn-Torn, Heroic Syria Without Cause

Sep 29, 2018 | russia-insider.com

[Sep 27, 2018] Russia and the Taming of the Israelis by Israel Shamir

Notable quotes:
"... For otherwise, why did the Israelis do that? Were they just careless and brutal, as is their wont? They didn't give a damn about the Russians, and considered them a lesser breed, whose life is of little importance. This is a possible reading, quite consistent with their general attitude to strangers considered to be children of a lesser God ..."
"... Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net ..."
Sep 27, 2018 | www.unz.com

There was a lull when the disaster of the downed plane completely disappeared from media, Russian or Western. It was not mentioned by the New York Times , it was not mentioned by the Russian newspapers. And after that, unexpectedly, the Russian Defence Minister Mr Shoygu made his announcement. Russia responded adequately, closing the sky over Syria, or at least over Western Syria, and activating its powerful GPS-jamming system off the Syrian coast. Israel has lost its right to bomb Syria at will.

The Russians said it will take them two weeks to deliver, install and make the system operative. I have heard that the system of up to eight S-300 had already been delivered by massive airlift a few days ago, with cargo planes landing in Syria every few minutes. Probably two weeks will be needed to install and activate the system.

Now in Israel the response was of two kinds. The hot heads said Israel is not worried by S-300; they know how to deal with it, and if necessary, Israeli commandos will come and sabotage the system just in time for a massive air attack by Israeli bombers. Sensible people said Israel should try to repair relations with the Russian military. The Russians did a lot of what the Israelis asked them for, including removal of Iranian forces from the vicinity of Israeli borders (rather, armistice lines). A thorough investigation of the air disaster may uncover the mistakes and convince the Russians that they aren't likely to occur again.

Netanyahu sounded like he was trying to minimise the strife with the Russians. After meeting with President Trump in New York, he said that he came with specific requests "and I received everything I wanted from him [Trump]. Our goal is to preserve the connection with Russia and on the other hand to defend Israel's security against these threats."

So, for good or bad, Israel is not going to break relations with Russia, and Russia is not going to go further, beyond sealing Syria's sky for Israeli raids. If Israeli leadership will keep its fingers away from Syria, things may cool down. Otherwise, the results will be quite unpredictable.

In Israel, there aren't many people at the top, apart of Netanyahu and Lieberman, who cherish their country's involvement with Russia. For Israelis, Putin is one of many unsavoury leaders from Idi Amin to Orban their country has to play ball with. Russia is not popular with ordinary Israelis who prefer America or Germany. A lot of Israelis will be pleased with breakup of this connection. Immediately after the Russian decision had been announced, Haaretz had made its feelings clear: "In recent years, Russia has been caught lying or spreading disinformation about its role in a number of incidents, the most recent being its involvement in the U.S. presidential elections, the poisoning of the former Russian agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Britain, and the invasion of Crimea and eastern Ukraine. So it's hard to believe that anyone but Syria and Iran will adopt the Russian version of last week's events." This is not a way one's partner is usually described.

More conspiratorially minded Israelis opined that beyond downing of the Il, there was an Air Force plot against Netanyahu and Lieberman who are unpopular within the top echelon of IDF. Others say it was an American Secret Service plot to undermine Russian-Israeli connection.

For otherwise, why did the Israelis do that? Were they just careless and brutal, as is their wont? They didn't give a damn about the Russians, and considered them a lesser breed, whose life is of little importance. This is a possible reading, quite consistent with their general attitude to strangers considered to be children of a lesser God .

On the other hand, it is possible that the whole Israeli raid had been staged to down the reconnaissance plane and to leave the Russians without its real-time intelligence data. In 1967, the Israelis bombed and sunk the USS Liberty , an electronic spy ship, the then equivalent of Il-20, for they did not want to have foreign eyes and ears in the area. But then, there was an ongoing full-scale war between Israel and Egypt, and the USS Liberty had been attacked just before the planned Israeli invasion of the Syrian Golan Heights.

Could it be that Israelis expected an attack by France, England and the US upon Syria on that night, an attack that did not materialise thanks to the Russian-Turkish agreement on Idlib? There was a British plane and a French frigate in the vicinity, and a whole lot of American ships.

The agreement on Idlib was a very important event, though Il-20 displaced it out of our collective memory. Putin and Erdogan reached a working compromise, thus avoiding almost unavoidable large scale hostilities. The White Helmets had already prepared a film with staged chemical attack upon Syrian children, but the agreement had made the attack improbable in the first place. It is possible that the American coalition assault had been postponed in the last moment, when the Russian plane had been already downed.

However, all is well that ends well. Russian decision to create practically a no-fly zone is a good decision, good for all. It is good for Russians as they learned that their Commander-in-Chief can make strong decisions. It is good for Syria, as they will suffer less of the Israeli bombardments. And it is really good for Israel, as this naughty child, a spoiled brat, a darling of America had to be forbidden to bother neighbouring children. The automatic missile defence system will provide a threat of spanking. The kid had been told that he is not allowed to kill neighbours. With its excessive aggressiveness multiplied by impunity, Israel has been spoiled, as anybody would. With this block, Israel can still become a mensch , and for this chance, thank you, Russia.

Will Tel-Aviv use this chance? The US will try to frustrate the Russian taming of Israel. John Bolton and Mike Pompeo already declared that no one may interfere with Israel's divine right to freely bomb Syria. Will the Israeli lobby in America be able to neutralise Moscow's decision and unhinge Israeli soul once again? Will they convince Putin to postpone his decision like they did in April, and a few years ago? I do not think so.

We can congratulate the leadership of Russia on the consistent, justified and well-balanced decision that may yet tame the Jewish shrew.

Israel Shamir can be reached at adam@israelshamir.net

[Sep 27, 2018] When Fake Countries Go to War by Doug Bandow

Notable quotes:
"... Instead of being countries, they resemble country clubs, in which a dominant few paying customers effectively make the rules and hire others to implement them. A large share of their populations are foreign and live in the shadows, with few rights and no opportunity to participate politically in the societies in which they live. ..."
"... "To survive, the Gulf governments need to look beyond simple questions of labor-force nationalization and economic austerity." ..."
Jul 04, 2017 | www.theamericanconservative.com

Until recently, life in Qatar was quite pleasant. But then Saudi Arabia, backed by President Donald Trump, who has gone from critic to fan of the ruling royals there, led an effort to isolate its smaller neighbor. With supreme irony, Riyadh, whose people have done more to fund and man terrorist attacks on Americans than any other nation, accused Doha of backing terrorists.

It's impossible to predict the outcome of Saudi Arabia's hypocritical jihad. More moderate Kuwait has not joined Saudi Arabia, whose leaders, among the most licentious in the Muslim world, run a government that may also be the least tolerant. Despite President Trump's Saudi swoon, the Defense and State Departments have taken more measured positions. Turkey rushed to Qatar's defense, Iran airlifted food, and Russia, ever more active in the Mideast, called for a diplomatic resolution of the conflict.

The Gulf countries really cannot afford to be at odds. The half-dozen Gulf states share a critical characteristic: all are essentially fake countries. To be sure, they have governments, diplomats, and military. But they are monarchies, some of recent vintage, in a world that long ago abandoned primogeniture.

And all contract out the hardest work, from manual to professional, to foreigners. Instead of being countries, they resemble country clubs, in which a dominant few paying customers effectively make the rules and hire others to implement them. A large share of their populations are foreign and live in the shadows, with few rights and no opportunity to participate politically in the societies in which they live.

That Qatar could not operate without its foreign workers is evident when landing in Doha. Almost any practical job of importance is performed by a foreigner. It's the same in the other Gulf States.

It's not unusual for governments to contract out work. Western governments do so, though usually to their own citizens, and in order to save money. What makes the Gulf States unique is the scale of reliance on foreign labor and the reason for doing so: to ensure that their own citizens need not be bothered having to work, or at least work unduly hard.

The increased role of expatriates reflects oil wealth. In the early 1970s the number of foreigners in the Gulf was modest. But as oil prices rose, starting in 1973 the disposable income of these states rose dramatically -- as did demand for expatriate labor. The number trebled within a decade. And the numbers have continued to rise. At the same time the proportion of non-Arabs (and non-Muslims) rose.

Estimates of the share of expatriates are rough but striking. Up to 90 percent (some estimates are a bit lower) of the residents of the United Arab Emirates are foreigners. Roughly 85 percent of Qatar's population is foreign. Kuwait comes in at 70 percent. Bahrain's expat share is 55 percent. Both Oman, the least visible of the Gulf nations, and Saudi Arabia, the most populous of the six, fall in at 30 percent. In the latter even the smaller percentage means there are upwards of eight million foreigners in the Desert Kingdom. In sharp contrast are Iran, Iraq, and Yemen, which have followed a different path.

Money obviously can buy comfort, if not happiness. It seems to have worked for the Gulf States. But the fall in oil prices has put the Gulf model under severe stress. Once addicted to free spending, the countries are facing deficits and being forced to borrow to maintain current outlays. Yet even the latter is no longer easy. Bahrain and Oman have seen their credit ratings downgraded to junk status.

Kuwait, with a democratically elected National Assembly, has faced popular resistance to retrenchment, particularly reductions in social benefits and economic subsidies. Roughly half of the Assembly members elected last November formed an unofficial opposition. Even the most dictatorial of the Gulf States, Saudi Arabia, feels the pressure. The deputy crown prince led efforts to trim expensive social benefits and subsidies as well as government salaries last fall, but the monarchy recently reversed those cuts. This will exacerbate the underlying economic problems.

Another austerity target is expat labor. For years governments have officially committed to labor force nationalization, without great effect. Some recently launched new efforts to reduce reliance on expats: taxes on hiring foreigners, requirements for domestic hiring for particular occupations, and employment quotas in some industries. A few have even rounded up and deported some expats. But an increased cash crunch may provide the most powerful incentive of all to change.

Nevertheless, moving toward a more normal balance in the labor force won't be easy. First is the sheer magnitude of expatriate hiring. A nation that brings in nine times as many foreigners as it has citizens cannot easily replace the former's labor. Although many of the jobs are nonessential, such as domestic servants, they remain popular.

Lack of adequate skills is another issue. Some jobs require specialized training or professional education, which takes time and commitment. Local interest in such occupations doesn't match demand. Even worse, many locals exhibit a minimal work ethic.

Equally problematic, the sense of entitlement runs deep. The number of nationals employed in private business has been increasing. But government remains the preferred type of employment. Even locals joke at the difference: Kuwaiti officials privately talk dismissively of the willingness of their fellow citizens to work. Many Gulf residents believe their national oil wealth entitles them to easy but remunerative employment.

More fundamentally, citizenship has a feeling of being transactional. Monarchs of dubious legitimacy get to rule so long as they share enough revenue with their citizens to provide lives of relative ease. In effect, foreign labor becomes part of the deal, essentially an entitlement of citizenship available only to a privileged few. Although the regimes usually retain control of security agencies, there are creative exceptions, such as Bahrain importing Sunni Muslims from Bangladesh and Pakistan as emergency service workers and policemen.

Plenty of Americans and Europeans like their welfare states and clamor for more benefits. Yet in all those nations the same people pay taxes and sometimes are required to perform military or other national service. Most see their political community as a larger whole and perceive citizenship as something beyond mutual transactions. The Gulf States feel differently.

While the Saudi-led attack on Qatar is dominating today's headlines, a more fundamental challenge faces the Gulf. Can artificial states dependent on buying the loyalty of their own citizens while farming out the toughest work to others survive forever?

Iran scares Riyadh and its neighbors because the former poses a moral rather than military threat. Islamist rule in Tehran is odious, but offers meaning to people who believe in more than money. Transactional rule is tenuous even in the best of times. It becomes more dubious as the cash flow slows.

To survive, the Gulf governments need to look beyond simple questions of labor-force nationalization and economic austerity. They must adopt political reforms that give their peoples a greater stake in their own societies. Ultimately the best way to defeat Iran is to offer a more convincing governing philosophy and a genuine sense of community -- characteristics now absent from the monarchies that are America's closest Arab allies in the region.

Doug Bandow is a Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute and a former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan. He is the author of Foreign Follies: America's New Global Empire. MORE FROM THIS AUTHOR

Poland Wants an American Garrison: Let Germany Do It! Angela Merkel, Teflon No Longer Hide 24 comments 24 Responses to When Fake Countries Go to War

Ken'ichi July 4, 2017 at 12:30 am

" Instead of being countries, they resemble country clubs, in which a dominant few paying customers effectively make the rules and hire others to implement them. A large share of their populations are foreign and live in the shadows, with few rights and no opportunity to participate politically in the societies in which they live. "

And how many actual citizens Athens had during the "Athenian democracy", versus the metics and slaves? What was ratio of the Spartiates to helots in Laconia?

Alex (the one that likes Ike) , says: July 4, 2017 at 8:03 am
I would not call Saudi Arabia even dictatorial. Deriving from Roman magistracy, a dictatorship must have at least a veneer of legality. Saudi Arabia doesn't have that. It's simply a tyranny.
skeptical , says: July 4, 2017 at 9:46 am
The Gulf is of interest because of oil, period. Whether the people who control the oil can be considered "real states" is immaterial, because we have to deal with whomever controls the oil. We don't war on behalf of these "fake states", any more than we warred in Iraq and Afghanistan to prevent abuse of women and children; we war in the Middle East for continued access to the oil.
SteveM , says: July 4, 2017 at 9:58 am
Re: "To survive, the Gulf governments need to look beyond simple questions of labor-force nationalization and economic austerity."

The sclerotic Gulf state regimes already have an alternative plan in place. Their multi-BILLION dollar weapons deals with the American Merchants of Death are implicit protection money to the U.S. to guarantee their security. Trump's ridiculous sword dance with the odious Saudi princes was the icing on the cake of the warped compact.

One way or another, U.S. influence is now propagated at the point of a gun.

Steven , says: July 4, 2017 at 11:24 am
Having lived in the region for some years, I think Bandow's blanket description of relationships between government and people there as "transactional" is quite wide of the mark, even ignorant.

These countries are quite obviously not western democracies, but more like a tribal government where one family runs things for the whole tribe, and the tribe and clans have been able in the past to either tell the family to find a new leader or to transfer their allegiances to another family. It's not Jeffersonian democracy, but in once bitterly poor countries with very little education, it worked quite well, just like Liechtenstein.

An analogy that is not entirely wrong would be the relation Italian Mafia dons had with villages in the days before they got into drugs etc. He didn't keep a parliament, but if you had problems, you could go to him and expect him to help you find a solution.

I should also point out to Bandow that nobody forces these foreigners to work in the gulf states, nor do they complain that they found work there. So what is his problem with their arrangements?

habarigani , says: July 4, 2017 at 11:32 am
If Islamist rule in Iran "offers meaning to people who believe in more than money" why is it "odious"? After all it governs largely with the consent of people. Is it "odious" because it does not confirm to Western concept of government and democracy in other words "Western exceptionalism"? Iran is evolving alternate path to Islamic democracy and the Persian Gulf could take a lesson from them. Instead of demonizing Iran, we should encourage its neighbors to make peace with it and emulate it!
blimbax , says: July 4, 2017 at 12:41 pm
Islamist rule in Tehran is odious, but offers meaning to people who believe in more than money.

"Odious" compared to what? And who are we to say?

I get the feeling that even when writing articles like this one, that are critical of the regimes in the gulf, the authors feel some obligation to say something gratuitous and negative about Iran.

Howard , says: July 4, 2017 at 1:26 pm
The parallels with our own country are there, though strangely not mentioned alongside the differences. In the Gulf states, there is a shared religion and a shared ethnicity to bind the minority "citizens", but in the USA those bonds do not unite even citizens. How much is the "patriotism" of today really based on moral necessity -- particularly when the insistence to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" comes from a religion that is no longer encouraged -- rather than on threats or bribery? (And like the Gulf states, Uncle Sam is finding it harder to afford to pay the bribes.)
Iyad , says: July 4, 2017 at 1:51 pm
The Gulf will never ever be able to offer a more convincing governing philosophy and a genuine sense of community than Iran. When you hear Iranian people telling you: We are from Persia, or when every non-official Iranian I saw outside Iran in the West is Liberal you know there is something different than the Zoo called Gulf.
Im a Syrian-American Christian who lived 2 years in KSA. And yes what Trump did in the Gulf was wrong and nothing but wrong. We hoped for a new day. The only support Trump got before elections was from the Syrians: Syrian Vice President wrote an article defending him!
Cynthia McLean , says: July 4, 2017 at 2:28 pm
The people of Iran remain loyal to their country not due primarily to fealty to "Islamist rule," but because of 1000's of years of glorious Persian history –arts, philosophy and literature, heroic figures etc. What such roots have the Gulf States in contrast?
William Burns , says: July 4, 2017 at 3:32 pm
Primogeniture's got nothing to do with it. Saudi Arabia's a monarchy, but it certainly doesn't follow primogeniture.
David Smith , says: July 4, 2017 at 5:05 pm
A friend of mine who used to work in that area put it like this: "Saudi Arabia is not a country, it's a company."
Dennis Tuchler , says: July 4, 2017 at 5:27 pm
Why aren't more literate Americans complaining about our slavish support of Saudi Arabia? US demonize Iran, a somewhat repressive theocracy in which women have rights and other monotheistic religions can be practiced. Find me a church in Saudi.

What would happen to the United States if Iran became he hegemon of the middle east? Aside from US oil interests and American Israelis, how would Americans suffer if we just bugged out of the Middle East?

Oil is for sale on the international market. We can get if whether it comes from Iran, Saudi or somewhere in the Western Hemisphere.

bacon , says: July 4, 2017 at 6:38 pm
@skeptical is exactly right. Before oil became the most necessary commodity in the world the Middle East was unimportant and in 50 or so years when oil and natural gas are nearly gone the area will be a backwater again. The Suez Canal may remain a major trade route, Israel's hold on the world's attention and particularly its influence in the US will still be a factor, Iran will still be a potential global actor, but the days of US presidents visiting Saudi Arabia and figuratively kissing the king's ring will be over. That is not to say the oil sheikdoms won't be problems, perhaps at war with one another, but it will only be a problem for the US, Russia, or Europe if our leaders cannot control their need to interfere in every little thing, everywhere.
Winston , says: July 4, 2017 at 10:01 pm
@Steven, Yes the Gulf countries are basically run in an anachronistic way. Not much different from how this region was governed locally, except with British intervention, Ibn Saud managed to dominate others in his area, and the British also helped to form the others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucial_States

The only 2 with significant populations are the Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Seems to be needing to rely so heavily on foreigners is really an acknowledgement of incompetence, not because locals do not want to work.

Iran is actually the best run ME country. It has capable women and allows them space. A young girl designed a much lauded bridge in Tehran. Which other ME country has given females this latitude?

See:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/20/bridge-tehran-architect-iran-leila-araghian-tabiat-sanctions-iranian-designers
Take it to the bridge: the Tehran architect striking the right chord in Iran and beyond

And this is just one example pf the contributions female make to the country.

Omar , says: July 4, 2017 at 11:20 pm
"Ultimately the best way to defeat Iran is to offer a more convincing governing philosophy and a genuine sense of community -- characteristics now absent from the monarchies that are America's closest Arab allies in the region."

It is truly sad that these states are America's closest allies. What if the people of these states wanted political change? They would have to go up against Kings armed to the teeth by America. It is therefore America which stands in the way of real change as much as the Kings themselves. America is the great enabler of most if not all Arab Kingdoms.

BadZ , says: July 5, 2017 at 2:28 am
"Ultimately the best way to defeat Iran is to offer a more convincing governing philosophy and a genuine sense of community -- characteristics now absent from the monarchies that are America's closest Arab allies in the region."

I've yet to hear a good reason why it would be a good thing for anybody to 'defeat' Iran. After all, Iran is currently only in open military conflict with Al Qaeda and ISIS types, so who do we want to see defeated? Also, no matter how odious we may find the government, Iran is still a paradise of freedom and democracy when compared to Saudi Arabia (as was Syria, for that matter).

Michael Kenny , says: July 5, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Who gave Americans the right to decide that this or that state is "fake" or "artificial"? Or that they "must" adopt political reforms? Or that this or that other state is "moral" and "offers meaning to people who believe in more than money"? Mr Bandow certainly doesn't seem to beleive in "non-intervention"! Although (cynical me, you may say!), he might well make an exception in regard to Ukraine.
Frip , says: July 5, 2017 at 1:32 pm
The substance of this article could have been covered in 4 short paragraphs.
Nolan , says: July 5, 2017 at 3:56 pm
"Ultimately the best way to defeat Iran is to offer a more convincing "

Not until the last line, but is that what this article is about? Why must this author promulgate the obnoxious "Iran is evil" line – we can go and find all over MSM! I suspect you have little experience in these countries and find your words on Iran stale (and odious).

Cornel Lencar , says: July 5, 2017 at 9:51 pm
What one can expect from slaver states?
Mark M , says: July 5, 2017 at 10:24 pm
I'm one of the few Iranian-Americans that has extensive experience working in the Arab countries and also in visiting Iran and all I can say is just stay away from it. Most of these Arab countries are going to implode at some point whereas Iran I expect will moderate and mature. In the meantime, get off the oil.
RockMeAmadeus , says: July 7, 2017 at 4:20 am
The Islamic revolution and Islamic republic institutionalized constitutionalism, elections from the local level to the highest officials, mass literacy and education from primary to post-doc level, military power and mass healthcare and in Iran after 2,500 years of monarchy.

Nothing "odious" about that.

RockMeAmadeus , says: July 7, 2017 at 4:27 am
Instead of wanting to "defeat" Iran, the American REPUBLIC should ally itself with the Islamic REPUBLIC against the Gulf clowns and the apartheid state in Israel.

Somebody should check and see if Cato gets any Gulf money, hey who knows

[Sep 26, 2018] Hired to Drain the Swamp, Fired in Less Than a Year

Notable quotes:
"... @markperrydc . ..."
"... Well, we know where Mattis is going when he leaves the Pentagon. Nice work if you can get it. ..."
"... Seriously, anyone taking a knife to the Pentagon budget is putting a knife top their throat, unless they have support. ..."
"... Gen Mattis wants to save big money stop sending US forces to needless adventures. ..."
"... On top of the firing, I found the last three or four paragraphs all about insider trading as opposed to job performance, goals, budget cutting, not even budget accountability . . . Personalities over performance -- holy petolies. ..."
"... Given that the United States spends more money on defense than the next seven countries COMBINED including Russia and China it's not a question of how much you spend it's a question of how well. Until DOD passes that financial audit that all other agencies are obligated to do DOD should be get any increase in funding. ..."
"... When folks learn that the DOD is the swamp, then we can start having a conversation. ..."
"... "Lap Dog" Mattis. ..."
"... The Trump Administration is the most incompetent and corrupt since Warren G. Harding. There is no swamp draining going on. It is just a fight on who occupies it. ..."
Sep 26, 2018 | www.theamericanconservative.com

Hired to Drain the Swamp, Fired in Less Than a Year 'This is the Boeing mafia in all of its glory,' one DoD official said of John 'Jay' Gibson's mysterious demise. By Mark Perry September 26, 2018

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The Pentagon ( Frontpage / Shutterstock ) On April 4, 2003, Col. Joseph Dowdy -- whose 1st Marine Regiment was then fighting its way through a tangle of Iraqi villages south of Baghdad -- was called to the tent of Gen. James Mattis and told he was being relieved of his command. A career Marine, Dowdy was stunned: Mattis's action in the midst of a battlefield fight was nearly unprecedented and, as Dowdy knew, would mark the end of his military career. Adding to the humiliation, Mattis told Dowdy to remove his sidearm and hand it to him. "We're going to give you a rest," he said.

Dowdy had known that his job was in danger, the result of complaints from Mattis and his staff that he wasn't moving his regiment quickly enough. But it's not as if Dowdy was taking his time: his troopers had been involved in bitter firefights against tenacious "Saddam Fedayeen" killers every day for the previous two weeks. But Dowdy had no choice in the matter, so while he objected to Mattis's action he packed up his gear, called his wife, returned to the U.S. and retired from the Marine Corps.

That Mattis acts quickly and decisively is part of his lore -- it's what good Marines do. But while quick and decisive might work on the battlefield, they're not always a good fit for a secretary of defense. Mattis learned this earlier this month, after he fired John H. "Jay" Gibson II, the Pentagon's first-ever Chief Management Officer and its third highest ranking official. The reason for the firing, as The Wall Street Journal's Gordon Lubold reported on September 5, was for "lack of performance."

The firing was immediately controversial, spurring under-the-radar resentments among senior defense officials in the Pentagon's E-Ring where military and civilian managers huddle to run the world's largest bureaucracy. "This doesn't make any sense," a senior Pentagon official told TAC . "Jay was CMO for seven months; he hadn't even gotten his staff in place."

John H. 'Jay' Gibson II (U.S. Government)

Gibson came to Washington to oversee Mattis's attempt to cut waste from the Pentagon budget by identifying savings that would lessen the ballooning impact of the Trump administration's $670 billion defense spending proposal. Armed with an impressive resume (including a successful stint as an assistant secretary of the Air Force and deputy undersecretary of defense for management reform, where his efforts saved billions of dollars), Gibson was tasked with reforming Pentagon procedures in buying and developing weapons and in managing logistics and supply, technology systems, community services, human resources, and health care.

Gibson was given a broad mandate to "shake up the system," which the deputy defense secretary Patrick Shanahan (the department's number two official and Gibson's boss) admitted would cause "screaming and yelling" from the Pentagon bureaucracy.

Even so, Gibson was told he would have the Trump administration's support -- which is why he decided to give up his post as president of XCOR Aerospace, a Texas company that develops rocket engines and space launch systems. "Jay did this over his wife's objections," a friend of Gibson and a senior official at a major private sector financial institution told TAC in a wide-ranging interview, "because he thought he could make a difference. He is a cracker-jack administrator; he knows how to dig and dig. So he came into D.C., started digging into the Pentagon budget and was fired. In my world, when that happens it isn't because you're doing a lousy job, but because you're stepping on the wrong toes."

In fact, as the senior Pentagon official with whom I spoke says, the toes that Gibson stepped on belonged to Patrick Shanahan, the deputy secretary of defense and a former vice president and general manager of Boeing Missile Defense Systems, a major Pentagon contractor. Shanahan and Gibson had a falling out in August, according to the senior Pentagon official with whom I spoke, and Shanahan reported the difficulty to Mattis -- "who pulled a Dowdy." Put simply, this official adds, when the "screaming and yelling" from the Pentagon's senior bureaucracy reached a fever pitch at the end of the summer, Mattis and Shanahan decided that firing Gibson would be easier than defending him.

The Recruitment Problem the Military Doesn't Want to Talk About Forget Trump: The Military-Industrial Complex is Still Running the Show

"I am not familiar with the details of what happened here and I wouldn't want to speculate," Todd Harrison, an official with the Center for Strategic and International Studies (and a well-known defense budget expert) says. "But I think that anyone in the new CMO position was signing on to the toughest job in Washington. It's one thing to identify waste, and another to actually get rid of it. The truth is that waste is built into the Pentagon budget; if you eliminate it, you eliminate jobs." A Pentagon official confirms this, but adds that "firing an official charged with making reforms for 'lack of performance' is laughable. Who are these guys trying to kid? The truth is that if Jay didn't perform, he'd still have his job."

The timing of Gibson's firing, just weeks after the death of Senate Armed Services Committee heavyweight John McCain, also raises uncomfortable questions. "The minute Gibson was fired, McCain would have had Mattis, Shanahan, and Gibson on the carpet in his office, asking them what the hell they were doing," a senior congressional staffer who monitors Pentagon personnel issues notes. "That's not going to happen now."

In fact, McCain had little love for Shanahan, telling aides that his appointment raised conflict of interest issues. McCain's worries were aired when he grilled Shanahan on answers the Boeing executive gave to written questions posed to him by the committee in June 2017. It was a classic McCain scorcher: "The answers that you gave to the questions," he told Shanahan, "whether intentionally or unintentionally, were almost condescending, and I'm not overjoyed that you came from one of the five corporations that receive 90 percent of taxpayers' dollars. I have to have confidence that the fox is not going to be put back into the henhouse." McCain was livid.

"Not a good beginning," McCain told Shanahan. "Do not do that again, Mr. Shanahan, or I will not take your name up for a vote before this committee. Am I perfectly clear?" Shanahan nodded his agreement. "Very clear," he said.

As it turns out, Shanahan's appointment resulted from a series of contentious negotiations between Trump transition official Mira Ricardel and retired Adm. Kevin Sweeney, Mattis's chief of staff. "There was no love loss between Mattis and Ricardel," the senior Pentagon civilian with whom TAC spoke says. "So the SecDef told Sweeney to deal with her. Sweeney is a tough guy and Mira has sharp elbows, so this got nasty."

The skirmishing got so bad that when Ricardel said she wanted to be the Pentagon's undersecretary for policy, Mattis killed the idea, with Ricardel sidelined as the undersecretary of commerce for export administration. But Ricardel got her revenge: she not only successfully slotted Shanahan as Mattis's number two, she was named as deputy to John Bolton, appointed by Trump to succeed H.R. McMaster as the administration's national security advisor. "It's the ultimate irony," the senior Pentagon official says. "Jim Mattis ignored H.R. and he ends up with Mira Ricardel. Incredible."

That Jay Gibson has been caught in the Mattis-Ricardel crossfire is an open secret at the Pentagon, where key officials speculate that Ricardel's promotion of Shanahan has less to do with his commitment to Pentagon budget reform than to the fact that the two were close colleagues at Boeing, where Ricardel served for nine years (from 2006 to 2015) as vice president of strategic missile and defense systems. That is to say, Jay Gibson's still unexplained firing has reinforced John McCain's worries that the fox would end up guarding the henhouse.

"This is the Boeing mafia in all of its glory," the senior Pentagon official says. "Anyone who comes in here [to the Pentagon] will always have Jay Gibson's experience as a marker. You think anyone who's willing to take on the bureaucracy is going to want that job? No way. Budget reform is dead, d-e-a-d dead. So much for draining the swamp."

Mark Perry is the author of The Most Dangerous Man in America and The Pentagon's Wars . Follow him on Twitter @markperrydc .



Whine Merchant September 26, 2018 at 12:05 am

Well, we know where Mattis is going when he leaves the Pentagon. Nice work if you can get it.
EliteCommInc. , , September 26, 2018 at 3:24 am
"Even so, Gibson was told he would have the Trump administration's support -- "

Look these are the issues in which the executive has to be made of sterner stuff. I suspect that the tag line after the articles title heading is more accurate and that has probably nothing to do with COS being quick on the draw.

Seriously, anyone taking a knife to the Pentagon budget is putting a knife top their throat, unless they have support.

Gen Mattis wants to save big money stop sending US forces to needless adventures.

On top of the firing, I found the last three or four paragraphs all about insider trading as opposed to job performance, goals, budget cutting, not even budget accountability . . . Personalities over performance -- holy petolies.

In this day and age there seems to be no other tune.

david , , September 26, 2018 at 5:49 am
All federal agencies are by congressional mandate obligated to pass financial audits EVERY year. DOD hasn't done one in over 10 years. Mattis supposedly was "working" on one for this year. Where is it?

We see endless stories of waste, fraud, and mismanagement in DOD. The littoral combat ship that more than doubled in price and clearly can't do what it was designed to do. So many others.

Given that the United States spends more money on defense than the next seven countries COMBINED including Russia and China it's not a question of how much you spend it's a question of how well. Until DOD passes that financial audit that all other agencies are obligated to do DOD should be get any increase in funding.

Kent , , September 26, 2018 at 6:39 am
When folks learn that the DOD is the swamp, then we can start having a conversation.
b. , , September 26, 2018 at 9:24 am
"Lap Dog" Mattis.
Scott , , September 26, 2018 at 10:27 am
The Trump Administration is the most incompetent and corrupt since Warren G. Harding. There is no swamp draining going on. It is just a fight on who occupies it.

The Trump Administration taking months to fill a position and then not having a support staff in place after 7 months is totally incompetent.

[Sep 25, 2018] Why did the Il-20 was not protected by our fighters? by Victor Alksnis

Slightly edited Yandex translations
Notable quotes:
"... Remember downed in November 2015, the Turkish F-16 our su-24? After all, one of the main reasons for this is that no one warned the crew about the presence and possible attack by its Turkish fighter in the vicinity due to the lack of control of airspace in the area and due to this our bomber was not covered by fighters, when it needed such a protection. ..."
"... Why was there no control of airspace over the Mediterranean sea? Why Israeli fighter were not discovered, why the Fight control center did not issue the command to the crew of the Il-20 immediately go in the direction of the Cyprus and wit for then of Israeli attack? ..."
"... Yes, periodically A-50 appear in Syria. But only periodically. And because of this, our planes are shot down and pilots are killed. ..."
Sep 18, 2018 | vz.ru

For almost three years, I have been publicly asking the same questions: "Why is Syria still not created a continuous radar field? Where are our aircraft AWACS (long-range radar detection and control) type A-50 (a-50U), and even more so A-100? Why are they not" hanging " around the clock over the middle East region, as do the United States and Israel?

Why do our "sworn partners" have full information about the air situation over the middle East region, and we are fighting there with our eyes closed? Why are our bombers, transporters and reconnaissance planes not covered by our fighters?" After all, as a result we suffer losses.

Remember downed in November 2015, the Turkish F-16 our su-24? After all, one of the main reasons for this is that no one warned the crew about the presence and possible attack by its Turkish fighter in the vicinity due to the lack of control of airspace in the area and due to this our bomber was not covered by fighters, when it needed such a protection.

And yesterday's death of Il-20 and 14 people of his crew? Today, the Russian defense Ministry tells us tales that Israeli fighters hided in a radar footprint of Il-20, attacking Latakia, and so the Syrians shot down our plane. Why wasn't the Il-20 was not protected by our fighters?

Why was there no control of airspace over the Mediterranean sea? Why Israeli fighter were not discovered, why the Fight control center did not issue the command to the crew of the Il-20 immediately go in the direction of the Cyprus and wit for then of Israeli attack?

Yes, periodically A-50 appear in Syria. But only periodically. And because of this, our planes are shot down and pilots are killed.

Why today our "partners" are armed with weapons of the XXI century, and we are forced to look at it with envy and use the methods of detection of air targets used in 40-50th of the last century?

Who of our military leaders was responsible for the death of Oleg Peshkov in November 2015? Which of them will be responsible for yesterday's death of 14 Il-20 crew?

Unfortunately, apart from the next victorious speeches about the world's best weapons and the world's strongest army, about the victory over terrorism on the far borders, we are unlikely to hear anything.

Source: Victor Alksnis's Blog

[Sep 25, 2018] Bolton Hates the Nuclear Deal Because It Proves Diplomacy Works

Notable quotes:
"... Earlier today, John Bolton and Mike Pompeo spoke to the hard-line, misleadingly-named pressure group, United Against Nuclear Iran (UANI), and delivered their usual attacks on and threats against Iran. ..."
"... An agreement that eliminates any pretext for preventive war, imposes no costs on America, and succeeds through cooperation with multiple governments is anathema to someone like Bolton, because it is proof that diplomacy works and can achieve things that coercive and punitive policies never could. ..."
"... UANI audience members react this way to bad economic news from Iran because they desire the destabilization and overthrow of the government. The fact that the Secretary of State and National Security Advisor headlined their event this week confirms for us that this is the administration's goal as well. ..."
Sep 25, 2018 | www.theamericanconservative.com
Earlier today, John Bolton and Mike Pompeo spoke to the hard-line, misleadingly-named pressure group, United Against Nuclear Iran (UANI), and delivered their usual attacks on and threats against Iran. One line from Bolton's speech stood out for being as delusional as it was representative of the Iran hawk worldview:

The Iran Deal was the worst diplomatic debacle in American history [bold mine-DL]. It did nothing to address the regime's destabilizing activities or its ballistic missile development and proliferation. Worst of all, the deal failed in its fundamental objective: permanently denying Iran all paths to a nuclear bomb.

Bolton loathes diplomacy. That is the key thing to understand about him, and it helps explain almost everything he has done in his career. He regards any successful diplomatic agreement as something of a debacle because it involves striking a compromise with another government, usually an adversary or rival, and because it means that the other side wasn't forced to give in to our every demand. When he denounces the JCPOA as "the worst diplomatic debacle in American history," he is simply expressing the intensity of his hatred for the government with which the agreement was made. His previous and ongoing support for the Mujahideen-e Khalq (MEK) shouldn't be forgotten when we try to make sense of this fanatical rhetoric.

If Bolton considers something to be the "worst diplomatic debacle" of our entire history, that tells us that the agreement required very little of the U.S., that it reinforced habits of multilateral cooperation, and that it successfully resolved an outstanding dispute that Bolton wished to resolve through regime change and war. An agreement that eliminates any pretext for preventive war, imposes no costs on America, and succeeds through cooperation with multiple governments is anathema to someone like Bolton, because it is proof that diplomacy works and can achieve things that coercive and punitive policies never could.

The venue for Bolton and Pompeo's speeches was no accident. It was an audience of hard-liners that detest Iran being addressed by like-minded speakers. UANI intensely opposed the nuclear deal and recited the usual false claims about it. Their vehement hostility to the most important and successful nonproliferation agreement of its kind is a testament to how little they care about actually restricting Iran's nuclear program. Like other Iran hawks, UANI is simply against Iran, and therefore they hate anything that might relieve international pressure on Iran. The group celebrates Trump administration sanctions and its members laugh about the deteriorating economic conditions inside Iran:

UANI audience members react this way to bad economic news from Iran because they desire the destabilization and overthrow of the government. The fact that the Secretary of State and National Security Advisor headlined their event this week confirms for us that this is the administration's goal as well.

Whine Merchant September 25, 2018 at 6:44 pm

Well, more evidence that the three stooges still drink Bibi's kool-aid. Perhaps AIPAC has promised to arrange for the Pompeo-Haley GOP Ticket to succeed Trump, with Bolton as Sec of State and Defence all-in-one.

[Sep 25, 2018] Why do i smell a false flag coming soon on CNN!

Sep 25, 2018 | www.moonofalabama.org

AG17 , Sep 25, 2018 1:35:35 AM | link

Why do i smell a false flag coming soon on CNN!

[Sep 25, 2018] USA/Israel/NATO would love for Russia to lash out against Israel for a provocation such as this Ilyushin 20 downing; but as the author suggests Russia knows it could not withstand the combined forces of NATO/Israel/USA in the Syrian theatre. Russia would not stand a chance.

Sep 25, 2018 | www.unz.com

Uncle Sam

If Russia shot down Israeli aircraft or bombed the airbase from which they took off, or even obliterated Israel, America would do nothing but bitch and complain. The American military does not want a war with Russia, because they know they cannot win a conventional war with Russia. I would go so far as to say that even if Russia sank American warships including an aircraft carrier America would not go to war.

America does not go to war with countries that have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to the continental United States. That is why she would bend over backwards to prevent a war with countries like Russia, China or North Korea, and the reason these countries need not fear America. The prevention of nuclear war is the underlying premise of American foreign policy. It has been since the nuclear age began. America would only use its nuclear weapons if the American mainland is hit with nuclear weapons.

America would accept the loss of hundreds or even thousands of its servicemen rather than have the continental USA turned into a wasteland.

Deschutes , says: September 25, 2018 at 10:24 am GMT

Sorry, not so sure I'd agree. USA/Israel/NATO would love for Russia to lash out against Israel for a provocation such as this Ilyushin 20 downing; but as the author suggests Russia knows it could not withstand the combined forces of NATO/Israel/USA in the Syrian theatre. Russia would not stand a chance.

I would agree with you that the USA has historically only attacked much weaker foes: Viet Nam, Iraq, Libya, Syria etc. But recently there has been a shift in US military I've read about, i.e. revisionist powers are now the main focus instead of 'war on terror'. With the stranglehold 'declare war!' sanctions USA will crush Iran with this November, it means that there will most definitely be ensuing hot war with Iran, probably early next year. What happened to Syria will next happen in Iran.

Once Iran is reduced to rubble with US/Israel trained and equipped ISIS proxy armies, the US and NATO will start destabilising actions along Russia's southern borders, i.e. Caspian Sea and Georgia. Their plan is to use the same Arab Islamist proxies and/or Chechen Arabs to start terror attacks in souther Russian provinces, i.e. Grozny, Derbent, Dagestan oblast. USA/NATO/Israel will try to chip away at Russia's southern provinces using same methods used in Syria, weaken and balkanize it. This is why Putin is trying so hard to stop them in Syria.

[Sep 25, 2018] Russia had rejected the request by Israel for the bombing raid near Latakia. Seems Netanyahou decided to ignore Russia and go ahead with the mission

Sep 25, 2018 | www.moonofalabama.org

Brad allen , Sep 24, 2018 7:20:47 AM | link

What seems very significant, apart from this long late upgrade to Syrian air defenses, is news from the area that Russia had rejected the request by Israel for the bombing raid near Latakia. Seems Netanyahou decided to ignore Russia and go ahead with the mission. This could be very significant in changing rules of cooperation between them.

[Sep 25, 2018] The Path to World War III by Philip Giraldi

Notable quotes:
"... "from which weapons-manufacturing systems were supposed to be transferred to Iran and Hezbollah." ..."
"... The Israelis for their part were using four F-16 fighter bombers to stage a surprise night attack on several sites near Latakia, close to the airbase being used by the Russians. They came in from the Mediterranean Sea and clearly were using the Russian plane to mask their approach as the Ilyushin 20 would have presented a much larger radar profile for the air defenses. The radar systems on the F-16s would also have clearly seen the Russian plane. ..."
"... There was also a back story. The Israelis and Russian military had established a hotline, similar to the one that is used with the U.S. command in Syria, precisely intended to avoid incidents like the Ilyushin shoot-down that might escalate into a more major conflict. Israel reportedly used the line but only one minute before the incident took place, leaving no time for the Russian plane to take evasive action. ..."
"... The Russian Ministry of Defense was irate. It saw the exploitation of the intelligence plane by the Israelis as a deliberate high-risk initiative. It warned "We consider these provocative actions by Israel as hostile. Fifteen Russian military service members have died because of the irresponsible actions of the Israeli military. This is absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership. We reserve the right for an adequate response." ..."
"... Aggressive war directed at a non-threatening country is the ultimate war crime as defined by the Nuremberg Tribunals that followed after the Second World War, yet the United States and its poodles Britain and France have not so much as squeaked when Israel kills civilians and soldiers in its surprise attacks against targets that it alone frequently claims to be linked to the Iranians. Washington would not be in much of a position to cast the first stone anyway, as it is in Syria illegally, bombs targets regularly, to include two major cruise missile strikes, and, on at least one occasion, set a trap that reportedly succeeded in killing a large number of Russian mercenaries fighting on the Syrian government side. ..."
"... There is, of course, an alternative explanation for the Israeli action. Netanyahu might have considered it all a win-win either way, with the Russian plane masking and enabling the Israeli attack without consequence for Israel or, perversely, producing an incident inviting retaliation from Moscow, which would likely lead to a shooting war with the United States after it inevitably steps in to support Israel's government. In either case, the chaos in Syria that Israel desires would continue and even worsen but there would also be the potential danger of a possible expansion of the war as a consequence, making it regional or even broader. ..."
"... It's the same old story. Israel does risky things like attacking its neighbors because it knows it will pay no price due to Washington's support. The downing of the Russian plane through Israeli contrivance created a situation that could easily have escalated into a war involving Moscow and Washington. What Israel is really thinking when it seeks to create anarchy all around its borders is anyone's guess, but it is, to be sure, in no one's interest to allow the process to continue. It is past time for Donald Trump to fulfill his campaign promise to pull the plug on American engagement in Syria and terminate the seemingly endless cycle of wars in the Middle East. ..."
"... Syria and Israel are still "officially" at war. No peace treaty has ever been signed between them after the 1973 war. ..."
"... Bolton and Pompeo have really excelled themselves over this. Been almost a blackout on reporting over this, at least after initial reporting of the incident. A major world leader slapping down Israel is not something the media wish people to see, might get the wrong idea. ..."
"... Not only that, but the IDF LIED to Russia, stating they were going to attack targets in N. Syria, not around Latakia. ..."
"... It appears that French frigate did fire on Syria, in the hopes that Russia would respond, then Macaroni would cry out to NATO for help under Article 5, which says, "An attack against one is an attack against all" and off we'd go to who knows where, maybe WWIII. ..."
"... How, I asked Fort Russ to explain, did the monsieurs on the French tin can know that Russia wouldn't shoot back and send them all to Davy Jones' Locker? Fort Russ' response? It deleted my comment rather than defend its claim. I'm through with Fort Russ. ..."
"... Trump's infamous campaign slogan of MAGA quickly mutated into MIGA which is the originally intended version anyways. ..."
"... France a real FUKUS country ( France -UK-US ) ..."
"... The French destroyed Libia https://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/06/28/hillary-libya/ ..."
"... There are French colonial troops in 5 african countries https://www.businessinsider.com/frances-military-is-all-over-africa-2015-1?IR=T ..."
"... France steals about 400.000 million euros per year from African ex-colonies with their currency, the CFA franc ( Communnaute Francophone Africaine, currency ) https://africasacountry.com/2018/06/its-time-to-end-the-cfa-franc ..."
"... Never underestimate French colonialism ..."
"... One might as well ask, why were the French on the scene in the first place? In the scenario being discussed here, the French did not shoot for self defence, but because they were told to. Macron would be the perfect lapdog for the job. I agree Macron being the perfect lapdog for the job. I nevertheless find the scenario on Fort-Russ unlikely because of the relative positions of the actors, if they were their true positions, when the Russian plane was hit. ..."
Sep 25, 2018 | www.unz.com

Israel is, of course, claiming innocence , that it was the Syrians who shot down the Russian aircraft while the Israeli jets were legitimately targeting a Syrian army facility "from which weapons-manufacturing systems were supposed to be transferred to Iran and Hezbollah." Seeking to undo some of the damage caused, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu quickly telephoned Russian President Vladimir Putin to express his condolences. He also sent his air force chief to Russia on Thursday to provide a detailed report on what had occurred from the Israeli perspective.

But that story, however it will be spun, is inevitably only part of the tale. The narrative of what occurred is by now well established. The Russian aircraft was returning to base after a mission over the Mediterranean off the Syrian coast monitoring the activities of a French warship and at least one British RAF plane. As a large and relatively slow propeller driven aircraft on a routine intelligence gathering mission, the Ilyushin 20 had no reason to conceal its presence. It was apparently preparing to land at its airbase at Khmeimim in Syria when the incident took place. It may or may not have had its transponder on, which would signal to the Syrian air defenses that it was a "friendly."

Syrian air defenses were on high alert because Israel had attacked targets near Damascus on the previous day. On that occasion a Boeing 747 on the ground that Israel claimed was transporting weapons was the target. One should note in passing that Israeli claims about what it is targeting in Syria are never independently verifiable.

The Israelis for their part were using four F-16 fighter bombers to stage a surprise night attack on several sites near Latakia, close to the airbase being used by the Russians. They came in from the Mediterranean Sea and clearly were using the Russian plane to mask their approach as the Ilyushin 20 would have presented a much larger radar profile for the air defenses. The radar systems on the F-16s would also have clearly seen the Russian plane.

The Israelis might have been expecting that the Syrians would not fire at all at the incoming planes knowing that one of them at least was being flown by their Russian allies. If that was the expectation, it proved wrong and it was indeed a Syrian S-200 ground to air missile directed by its guidance system to the larger target that brought down the plane and killed its fourteen crew members. The Israelis completed their bombing run and flew back home. There were also reports that the French frigate offshore fired several missiles during the exchange, but they have not been confirmed while the British plane was also reportedly circling out of range though within the general area.

There was also a back story. The Israelis and Russian military had established a hotline, similar to the one that is used with the U.S. command in Syria, precisely intended to avoid incidents like the Ilyushin shoot-down that might escalate into a more major conflict. Israel reportedly used the line but only one minute before the incident took place, leaving no time for the Russian plane to take evasive action.

The Russian Ministry of Defense was irate. It saw the exploitation of the intelligence plane by the Israelis as a deliberate high-risk initiative. It warned "We consider these provocative actions by Israel as hostile. Fifteen Russian military service members have died because of the irresponsible actions of the Israeli military. This is absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Russian-Israeli partnership. We reserve the right for an adequate response."

Russian President Vladimir Putin was more conciliatory , saying the incident was a "chain of tragic circumstances." He contrasted it with the Turkish shoot-down of a Russian warplane in 2015, which was planned and deliberate, noting that Israel had not actually attacked the Ilyushin. Though the Putin comments clearly recognize that his country's relationship with Israel is delicate to say the least, that does not mean that he will do nothing.

Many Israelis are emigres from Russia and there are close ties between the two countries, but their views on Syria diverge considerably. As much as Putin might like to strike back at Israel in a hard, substantive way, he will likely only upgrade and strengthen the air defenses around Russian troop concentrations and warn that another "surprise" attack will be resisted. Unfortunately, he knows that he is substantially outgunned locally by the U.S., France, Britain and Israel, not to mention Turkey, and a violent response that would escalate the conflict is not in his interest. He has similarly, in cooperation with his Syrian allies, delayed a major attempt to retake terrorist controlled Idlib province, as he works out a formula with Ankara to prevent heavy handed Turkish intervention.

But there is another dimension to the story that the international media has largely chosen to ignore. And that is that Israel is now carrying out almost daily air attacks on Syria, over 200 in the past 18 months, a country with which it is not at war and which has not attacked it or threatened it in any way. It justifies the attacks by claiming that they are directed against Iran or Hezbollah, not at Syria itself. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has insisted that any peace settlement in Syria include the complete removal of Iranians, a demand that has also been repeated by the United States, which is also calling for the end to the Bashar al-Assad government and its replacement by something more "democratic."

Aggressive war directed at a non-threatening country is the ultimate war crime as defined by the Nuremberg Tribunals that followed after the Second World War, yet the United States and its poodles Britain and France have not so much as squeaked when Israel kills civilians and soldiers in its surprise attacks against targets that it alone frequently claims to be linked to the Iranians. Washington would not be in much of a position to cast the first stone anyway, as it is in Syria illegally, bombs targets regularly, to include two major cruise missile strikes, and, on at least one occasion, set a trap that reportedly succeeded in killing a large number of Russian mercenaries fighting on the Syrian government side.

And then there is the other dimension of Israeli interference with its neighbors, the secret wars in which it supports the terrorist groups operating in Syria as well as in Iran. The Netanyahu government has armed the terrorists operating in Syria and even treated them in Israeli hospitals when they get wounded. On one occasion when ISIS accidentally fired into Israeli-held territory on the Golan Heights it subsequently apologized. So, if you ask who is supporting terrorism the answer first and foremost should be Israel, but Israel pays no price for doing so because of the protection afforded by Washington, which, by the way, is also protecting terrorists.

There is, of course, an alternative explanation for the Israeli action. Netanyahu might have considered it all a win-win either way, with the Russian plane masking and enabling the Israeli attack without consequence for Israel or, perversely, producing an incident inviting retaliation from Moscow, which would likely lead to a shooting war with the United States after it inevitably steps in to support Israel's government. In either case, the chaos in Syria that Israel desires would continue and even worsen but there would also be the potential danger of a possible expansion of the war as a consequence, making it regional or even broader.

It's the same old story. Israel does risky things like attacking its neighbors because it knows it will pay no price due to Washington's support. The downing of the Russian plane through Israeli contrivance created a situation that could easily have escalated into a war involving Moscow and Washington. What Israel is really thinking when it seeks to create anarchy all around its borders is anyone's guess, but it is, to be sure, in no one's interest to allow the process to continue. It is past time for Donald Trump to fulfill his campaign promise to pull the plug on American engagement in Syria and terminate the seemingly endless cycle of wars in the Middle East.

Philip M. Giraldi, Ph.D., is Executive Director of the Council for the National Interest, a 501(c)3 tax deductible educational foundation that seeks a more interests-based U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East. Website is www.councilforthenationalinterest.org, address is P.O. Box 2157, Purcellville VA 20134 and its email is inform@cnionline.org .


ValmMond , says: September 25, 2018 at 5:14 am GMT

"a country with which it is not at war"

Syria and Israel are still "officially" at war. No peace treaty has ever been signed between them after the 1973 war.

Harold Smith , says: September 25, 2018 at 5:32 am GMT
"It is past time for Donald Trump to fulfill his campaign promise to pull the plug on American engagement in Syria and terminate the seemingly endless cycle of wars in the Middle East."

Orange Clown's a liar whose presidential campaign was a calculated bait and switch fraud from the beginning. Our presidential poseur obviously had no intention of following through on most of his pre-election intimations and campaign promises.

Anon , [629] Disclaimer says: September 25, 2018 at 5:47 am GMT
Syria refused "land for peace" initiative in 1967 where it would get back Golan in return for peace. They never established diplomatic relations and are technically in the state of war.
Ronald Thomas West , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 5:58 am GMT
"The downing of the Russian plane through Israeli contrivance created a situation that could easily have escalated into a war involving Moscow and Washington"

I don't doubt Israeli contrivance but I expect there is possibly a wider contrivance involving Netanyahu's poodle Macron:

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/

Wizard of Oz , says: September 25, 2018 at 6:34 am GMT
@Anon Syria refused "land for peace" initiative in 1967 where it would get back Golan in return for peace. They never established diplomatic relations and are technically in the state of war. Which raises a couple of questions. One is whether the deal is still open. Another is why a secular régime in Syria, like that of Assad, would not recognise Israel now in return for something substantial which might be money rather than territory.
Colin Wright , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 6:36 am GMT
@Anon

Syria refused "land for peace" initiative in 1967 where it would get back Golan in return for peace. They never established diplomatic relations and are technically in the state of war. 'Syria refused "land for peace" initiative in 1967 where it would get back Golan in return for peace '

Uh huh. Hey, look. The Zionist lied. I'll be. https://www.thedailybeast.com/no-israel-didnt-offer-to-trade-the-west-bank-for-peace-in-1967

jilles dykstra , says: September 25, 2018 at 7:53 am GMT
@Anon

Syria refused "land for peace" initiative in 1967 where it would get back Golan in return for peace.

They never established diplomatic relations and are technically in the state of war. Moshe Dayan, in an interview with an Israeli paper, stated that 95% of border incidents with Syria were deliberately provoked by Israel

jilles dykstra , says: September 25, 2018 at 7:55 am GMT
@Ronald Thomas West

"The downing of the Russian plane through Israeli contrivance created a situation that could easily have escalated into a war involving Moscow and Washington"

I don't doubt Israeli contrivance but I expect there is possibly a wider contrivance involving Netanyahu's poodle Macron:

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/

&

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/more-experts-confirm-that-france-took-down-il-20-identify-friend-foe-system-did-not-fail/

&

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/major-russia-defies-israel-to-now-supply-s-300-to-syria/

Thought provoking material from Joaquin Flores at Ft Russ News. Was it actually the French? Macron worked for Banque de Rothschild in Paris

Vojkan , says: September 25, 2018 at 8:13 am GMT
@Ronald Thomas West

"The downing of the Russian plane through Israeli contrivance created a situation that could easily have escalated into a war involving Moscow and Washington"

I don't doubt Israeli contrivance but I expect there is possibly a wider contrivance involving Netanyahu's poodle Macron:

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/

&

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/more-experts-confirm-that-france-took-down-il-20-identify-friend-foe-system-did-not-fail/

&

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/major-russia-defies-israel-to-now-supply-s-300-to-syria/

Thought provoking material from Joaquin Flores at Ft Russ News. Was it actually the French? The Auvergne frigate is an anti-submarine ship equipped with surface-to-air missiles for self-defence Aster 15, with a range of max 30 km. Unless the French have modified it in the mean time, which is unlikely since it was launched too recently for that in my opinion, in 2015, to turn it in an air-defence ship equipped with the more advanced Aster 30 missiles, with a range of 100-120 km, I doubt they were within striking distance of the IL-20 when it was hit. On the other hand, it is possible that they have participated in the Israeli attack against Syria, given that they're equipped with cruise missiles and that ships of the same class have participated in previous attacks against Syria.

Anyway, I don't think it is wise of Russia to play down French involvement for the sake of Russian-French relationship. France under Macron is a shit country but the French are too vain to admit that they have elected a complete moron as president. There is no comparison with Erdogan's Turkey. Erdogan has way more substance than the Rotschild puppet Macron.

LondonBob , says: September 25, 2018 at 8:18 am GMT
Bolton and Pompeo have really excelled themselves over this. Been almost a blackout on reporting over this, at least after initial reporting of the incident. A major world leader slapping down Israel is not something the media wish people to see, might get the wrong idea.
Ronald Thomas West , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 9:21 am GMT
@Vojkan

The Auvergne frigate is an anti-submarine ship equipped with surface-to-air missiles for self-defence Aster 15, with a range of max 30 km. Unless the French have modified it in the mean time, which is unlikely since it was launched too recently for that in my opinion, in 2015, to turn it in an air-defence ship equipped with the more advanced Aster 30 missiles, with a range of 100-120 km, I doubt they were within striking distance of the IL-20 when it was hit. On the other hand, it is possible that they have participated in the Israeli attack against Syria, given that they're equipped with cruise missiles and that ships of the same class have participated in previous attacks against Syria.

Anyway, I don't think it is wise of Russia to play down French involvement for the sake of Russian-French relationship. France under Macron is a shit country but the French are too vain to admit that they have elected a complete moron as president. There is no comparison with Erdogan's Turkey. Erdogan has way more substance than the Rotschild puppet Macron.

Erdogan is a paranoid criminal who has back-stabbed every player he's ever done business with not to mention his intelligence chief, Hakan Fidan, is an alumnus of the Turkish branch of al-Qaida. Head and shoulders above Macron? I suppose that's possible

animalogic , says: September 25, 2018 at 9:52 am GMT
@Uncle Sam

If Russia shot down Israeli aircraft or bombed the airbase from which they took off, or even obliterated Israel, America would do nothing but bitch and complain. The American military does not want a war with Russia, because they know they cannot win a conventional war with Russia. I would go so far as to say that even if Russia sank American warships including an aircraft carrier America would not go to war.

America does not go to war with countries that have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to the continental United States. That is why she would bend over backwards to prevent a war with countries like Russia, China or North Korea, and the reason these countries need not fear America. The prevention of nuclear war is the underlying premise of American foreign policy. It has been since the nuclear age began. America would only use its nuclear weapons if the American mainland is hit with nuclear weapons.

America would accept the loss of hundreds or even thousands of its servicemen rather than have the continental USA turned into a wasteland. I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of US unwillingness to fight a nuclear power, but .I also can't forget that the US ruling elites are pathological. Psychotic with hubris, greed & egoism. The "exceptional", the "indispensable" nation .& worse, the wagging dog to the Israeli tail.

steinbergfeldwtizcohen , says: September 25, 2018 at 10:28 am GMT
Israel has Zero goodwill. They are a pariah nation. I'm sure that will be interesting to watch as U.S. power evaporates. It proves to me that hubris overwhelms strategy; the Jews are the architects of their own destruction.
Vojkan , says: September 25, 2018 at 11:03 am GMT
@Ronald Thomas West

My understanding is the Auvergne class frigate has Aster 30 capability from launch, depending on the configuration ... retrofit would only be necessary in case it had not been initially equipped - In the French denomination, the Auvergne is a FREMM, anti-submarine, not FREDA, air-defence. The French FREMM, if the French MoD doesn't lie, is equipped with 16 missiles Aster 15 for self-defence. The FREDAs are equipped with 16 more missiles Aster 30. Let's say that the Auvergne is in fact equipped with Aster 30 instead of Aster 15 missiles, I say instead because there would be little room left for its alleged main capabilities if equipped with both, the likelihood that the French would fire one at a Russian reconnaissance plane is still less than the plane being hit by mistake by Syrian air-defence.

Why would the French down a distant slow moving Russian reconnaissance plane? It would make sense if the plane was much closer to the Auvergne, in which case an Aster 15 would have done the job. The thing is that it seems that as much as the Il-20 was between the Syrians and the Israelis, Israelis were between the French and the Russian plane.

Unless the French and the Israeli hardware are fully integrated, you have to have a hell of a confidence in your stuff to fire a missile to down the Russian plane in such circumstances. Though the Aster 30 has vertical launch and anything is possible. I can be wrong but I just find it unlikely.

Greg Bacon , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 11:05 am GMT

The Israelis for their part were using four F-16 fighter bombers to stage a surprise night attack on several sites near Latakia, close to the airbase being used by the Russians.

Not only that, but the IDF LIED to Russia, stating they were going to attack targets in N. Syria, not around Latakia.

It appears that French frigate did fire on Syria, in the hopes that Russia would respond, then Macaroni would cry out to NATO for help under Article 5, which says, "An attack against one is an attack against all" and off we'd go to who knows where, maybe WWIII.

Israel needs to be dis-armed of its NBC arsenal; nukes, biological and chemical weapons, which they will deny having, but as usual, it's just another LIE coming from a nation filled with religious zealots who think some G-d they created will protect them from nuclear bursts and that they have the G-d given right to kill any Gentile they want, w/o repercussions.

Vojkan , says: September 25, 2018 at 11:09 am GMT
@Ronald Thomas West

Erdogan is a paranoid criminal who has back-stabbed every player he's ever done business with ... not to mention his intelligence chief, Hakan Fidan, is an alumnus of the Turkish branch of al-Qaida. Head and shoulders above Macron? I suppose that's possible...

And Macron is an egomaniac with and Oedipus complex who oftens makes non-sensical sentences that send his admirers into trance. The only plus of Macron compared to Erdogan is that he knows his masters. The down side is that he doesn't know his own country, while Erdogan does. So yes, it is possible.

Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 11:27 am GMT
@Ronald Thomas West

"The downing of the Russian plane through Israeli contrivance created a situation that could easily have escalated into a war involving Moscow and Washington"

I don't doubt Israeli contrivance but I expect there is possibly a wider contrivance involving Netanyahu's poodle Macron:

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/full-analysis-russian-disinfo-campaign-blames-israel-for-il-20-plane-downing-yet-exonerates-france/

&

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/more-experts-confirm-that-france-took-down-il-20-identify-friend-foe-system-did-not-fail/

&

https://www.fort-russ.com/2018/09/major-russia-defies-israel-to-now-supply-s-300-to-syria/

Thought provoking material from Joaquin Flores at Ft Russ News. Was it actually the French? I left a response on the Fort Russ article asking them to explain exactly why French naval personnel would wish to sacrifice their lives for the greater glory of the gerontophiliac juvenile war criminal in Paris.

How, I asked Fort Russ to explain, did the monsieurs on the French tin can know that Russia wouldn't shoot back and send them all to Davy Jones' Locker? Fort Russ' response? It deleted my comment rather than defend its claim. I'm through with Fort Russ.

KenH , says: September 25, 2018 at 11:31 am GMT
The Nuremberg standard was only set up to be used against goyim and goy nations who don't have Jewish occupation governments. Israel must be pretty stupid as if wider, regional war breaks out then Tel Aviv should be considered a legitimate target and in the event of a nuclear war no doubt Russia has nukes destined for Tel Aviv and rightly so.
Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 11:38 am GMT
@Justsaying

Trump's infamous campaign slogan of MAGA quickly mutated into MIGA which is the originally intended version anyways. Obedience to Israel has become a norm in presidential election campaigns. Even the disenfranchised minority caucuses, including and especially the Black one is firmly in Israel's pockets now. The Black leadership role has now been essentially reduced to making the odd noise after the shooting of an unarmed Black by a White cop.

"The Black leadership role has now been essentially reduced to making the odd noise after the shooting of an unarmed Black by a White cop."

As a brown person in Asia I grew up inculcated with the idea that I must always be in solidarity with black people in America and they would be with me (it was the 1970s, Malcolm X was still a fresh memory, Muhammad Ali still strode the scene like a colossus, and Martin Luther King Jr was still thought of as a hero in most circles).

Today, black Americans are people so wallowing in self abnegation that they mass voted for the racist war criminal Killary Clinton, owing to whose actions black people in America were incarcerated in hitherto unknown numbers; due to whose crimes black people in Haiti were looted to destitution; because of whom black people in Libya are literally being sold as slaves. Black Americans parade around saying "black lives matter", but are more than happy voting for war criminals who loot Haitian blacks, enslave Libyan blacks, massacre Somali blacks, deprive Sudanese blacks of life saving drugs, and plot to imperialistically occupy Africa, a continent of black people. Forget about us brown people, to American blacks in 2018, black lives do *not* matter.

Only virtue signalling and tribal identity matters. Nothing else.

Malcolm X would spit on them.

Mike P , says: September 25, 2018 at 12:02 pm GMT
@Vojkan In the French denomination, the Auvergne is a FREMM, anti-submarine, not FREDA, air-defence. The French FREMM, if the French MoD doesn't lie, is equipped with 16 missiles Aster 15 for self-defence. The FREDAs are equipped with 16 more missiles Aster 30. Let's say that the Auvergne is in fact equipped with Aster 30 instead of Aster 15 missiles, I say instead because there would be little room left for its alleged main capabilities if equipped with both, the likelihood that the French would fire one at a Russian reconnaissance plane is still less than the plane being hit by mistake by Syrian air-defence. Why would the French down a distant slow moving Russian reconnaissance plane? It would make sense if the plane was much closer to the Auvergne, in which case an Aster 15 would have done the job. The thing is that it seems that as much as the Il-20 was between the Syrians and the Israelis, Israelis were between the French and the Russian plane. Unless the French and the Israeli hardware are fully integrated, you have to have a hell of a confidence in your stuff to fire a missile to down the Russian plane in such circumstances. Though the Aster 30 has vertical launch and anything is possible. I can be wrong but I just find it unlikely.

Why would the French down a distant slow moving Russian reconnaissance plane?

One might as well ask, why were the French on the scene in the first place?

In the scenario being discussed here, the French did not shoot for self defence, but because they were told to. Macron would be the perfect lapdog for the job.

Respect , says: September 25, 2018 at 12:58 pm GMT
@Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

I left a response on the Fort Russ article asking them to explain exactly why French naval personnel would wish to sacrifice their lives for the greater glory of the gerontophiliac juvenile war criminal in Paris. How, I asked Fort Russ to explain, did the monsieurs on the French tin can know that Russia wouldn't shoot back and send them all to Davy Jones' Locker?

Fort Russ' response? It deleted my comment rather than defend its claim.

I'm through with Fort Russ.

Never underestimate colonialist France .

France a real FUKUS country ( France -UK-US )

Ronald Thomas West , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 1:02 pm GMT
@Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist

I left a response on the Fort Russ article asking them to explain exactly why French naval personnel would wish to sacrifice their lives for the greater glory of the gerontophiliac juvenile war criminal in Paris. How, I asked Fort Russ to explain, did the monsieurs on the French tin can know that Russia wouldn't shoot back and send them all to Davy Jones' Locker?

Fort Russ' response? It deleted my comment rather than defend its claim.

I'm through with Fort Russ. Well, Bill, Russia practices entirely too much self-restraint to my taste too, but I suspect you underestimate the ego-priapism of the French (you should see the exaggerated 'packages' on the statues of their military heroes), it's not like that culture plays with a full deck or level mentality. Bottom line: Russia doesn't want World War III and the priss Gauls are perfectly willing to take advantage of that in the negative, you might better understand the Western gang mentality. Insofar as assigning a modicum of 'normalcy' (rationality) to the French militarist idiots, it'd be a mistake, they might notice they'd backed-buttocks into the nuclear launch button if you separated them from on-ship lover with a pry-bar. Sort of like Dien Bien Phu and catastrophic political-military miscalculation.

Gerontophiliac? Rumor has it rather Macron is in love with his Muslim beating bodyguard. The 'elderly' woman seems to be great cover

ISmellBagels , says: September 25, 2018 at 1:05 pm GMT
The Israelis using the hotline just a minute before the shoot down is very similar to when the yid army gives notice to a Palestinian family just a minute before blowing up their house. They think it's all funny.
Respect , says: September 25, 2018 at 1:33 pm GMT
The French destroyed Libia https://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/06/28/hillary-libya/

There are French colonial troops in 5 african countries https://www.businessinsider.com/frances-military-is-all-over-africa-2015-1?IR=T

France steals about 400.000 million euros per year from African ex-colonies with their currency, the CFA franc ( Communnaute Francophone Africaine, currency ) https://africasacountry.com/2018/06/its-time-to-end-the-cfa-franc

Never underestimate French colonialism .

annamaria , says: September 25, 2018 at 1:38 pm GMT
@Ronald Thomas West

Well, Bill, Russia practices entirely too much self-restraint to my taste too, but I suspect you underestimate the ego-priapism of the French (you should see the exaggerated 'packages' on the statues of their military heroes), it's not like that culture plays with a full deck or level mentality. Bottom line: Russia doesn't want World War III and the priss Gauls are perfectly willing to take advantage of that in the negative, you might better understand the Western gang mentality. Insofar as assigning a modicum of 'normalcy' (rationality) to the French militarist idiots, it'd be a mistake, they might notice they'd backed-buttocks into the nuclear launch button if you separated them from on-ship lover with a pry-bar. Sort of like Dien Bien Phu and catastrophic political-military miscalculation.

Gerontophiliac? Rumor has it rather Macron is in love with his Muslim beating bodyguard. The 'elderly' woman seems to be great cover... It is highly implausible that "Micron" has any power. The same can be said about the imbecile UK Parliament that allowed Mr. Gavin Williamson (a trained salesperson knowledgeable in fireplaces) to become a Secretary of Defence. Gavin's only virtue is his superb sensitivity to the needs of mega-war profiteers and the Friends of Israel in the UK.

Here is an analysis of the 9/17 event in Syria by Thierry Meyssan: http://www.voltairenet.org/article203086.html

20 September 2018: "The Chief of Staff for the Israëli Air Force, General Amikam Norkin, arrives in a hurry to present his version of events. Once these proofs were checked and compared with other recordings, it transpired that Israël was lying straight-faced."

"On 17 September 2018, France, Israël and the United Kingdom carried out a joint operation against Syrian targets.

1. A British Torpedo took off from Cyprus to land in Iraq. During the flight, it violated Syrian air space in order to scan the Syrian defences and make the allied attack possible.

2. Less than an hour later, four Israëli F-16s and a French frigate, L'Auvergne, fired on targets in the Syrian governorate of Lattakia. The Syrian air defences protected their country by firing their S-200s against the French and Israëli missiles.

3. During the battle, an F-16 used a Russian Ilyushin Il-20 as a shield.

The cowardice of the British and French leaders led them to censor all information concerning their responsibility in this operation . London made no comment, and Paris denied the facts. Neither the BBC, nor France-Television dared to mention the subject. For these two countries, more than ever, t he reality of external politics is excluded from the democratic debate.

In case the White House should find an acceptable narrative of the facts for its electors, Russia could forbid the United Kingdom, France and Israël from making any intrusion into the maritime, terrestrial and aerial space of Syria without the authorisation of Damascus.
London and Paris would have to cease their threats of bombing under whatever pretext at all (false chemical weapons) and withdraw their special forces. This measure would be valid for all protagonists in general, except for the United States and, in Idlib, for Turkey."

-- Neither the United Kingdom nor France nor Israël has a head of state. These states are indeed headless.

Vojkan , says: September 25, 2018 at 1:50 pm GMT
@Mike P
Why would the French down a distant slow moving Russian reconnaissance plane?
One might as well ask, why were the French on the scene in the first place? In the scenario being discussed here, the French did not shoot for self defence, but because they were told to. Macron would be the perfect lapdog for the job. I agree Macron being the perfect lapdog for the job. I nevertheless find the scenario on Fort-Russ unlikely because of the relative positions of the actors, if they were their true positions, when the Russian plane was hit.
Jean de Peyrelongue , says: Website September 25, 2018 at 1:56 pm GMT
Russia's MOD story is clear: the IL-20 had been flying around Idlib and was coming back when 4 fighters from Israel bombed Latakia and having accomplished their mission and also noticed of the incoming IL-20, instead of running away, decided to stay around for another objective. One of the fighter came close to the IL-20 which was going to land, and he gave him the "Judas' kiss" calling for the Syrian DCA to shoot down the IL-20.

It was not an accident, it was a pre-planned murder: Note that the Syrian DCA became ready only 10′ after the bombing of Lattakia and that the israelis had plenty of time to run away.

It would be interesting to know if these fighters communicate with Israel before deciding to carry out this murder.

I am glad to see that Russia is not behaving like the US when the USS Liberty was attacked by Israel. By deciding to send the S300 to Syria , improved their communication system and jammed airplanes communication systems when attacking Syria, Russia is giving an appropriate answer which is going to improve drastically the defense capabilities of Syria and "cooled some aggressive hot heads".

[Sep 25, 2018] Consequences - TTG

Notable quotes:
"... VV Putin and S Shoigu have quickly and calmly moved to insure that another incident like the IL-20 shoot down does not occur again. After laying the blame for the incident squarely on Israel, both men announced Syria will receive a major upgrade to their air defense system. Russian will deliver S-300 systems to the Syrians within the next two weeks. ..."
"... In other developments, Russian Senator and former Air Force commander Viktor Bondarev announced the establishment of a no-fly zone in Latakia to prevent a repeat of the IL-20 aircraft tragedy. He added that "any unauthorized objects in the sky over Hmeimim Airport will definitely be eliminated." I'm sure that remark was meant for an Israeli audience. I'm also certain that VV Putin personally informed Netanyahu of this in one of their recent phone calls. ..."
"... In addition to the S-300s and no-fly zone, Russian radio electronic combat assets will suppress communications, radars and satellite navigation of any combat aircraft attacking targets in Syria. A Russian Su-35S has reportedly intercepted a US F-22 over Syria. Russian has also asked for permission to station fighters and bombers at the Nojeh Air Base in NW Iran. The bear is seriously pissed. ..."
"... We are unhappy because the Izzies are unhappy. ..."
Sep 25, 2018 | turcopolier.typepad.com

VV Putin and S Shoigu have quickly and calmly moved to insure that another incident like the IL-20 shoot down does not occur again. After laying the blame for the incident squarely on Israel, both men announced Syria will receive a major upgrade to their air defense system. Russian will deliver S-300 systems to the Syrians within the next two weeks.

If Russia already has S-300 systems under their control in Syria, these systems will probably be turned over the Syrians and new Russian systems will be brought in. Otherwise, new systems will be flown in directly to the Syrians. I would think the former would be the most reasonable way to upgrade the Syrian air defense system within two weeks unless the Russian have already quietly flown them in. In either case, Russian technicians and trainer will surely work with their Syrian counterparts for well past the two weeks stated.

In other developments, Russian Senator and former Air Force commander Viktor Bondarev announced the establishment of a no-fly zone in Latakia to prevent a repeat of the IL-20 aircraft tragedy. He added that "any unauthorized objects in the sky over Hmeimim Airport will definitely be eliminated." I'm sure that remark was meant for an Israeli audience. I'm also certain that VV Putin personally informed Netanyahu of this in one of their recent phone calls.

In addition to the S-300s and no-fly zone, Russian radio electronic combat assets will suppress communications, radars and satellite navigation of any combat aircraft attacking targets in Syria. A Russian Su-35S has reportedly intercepted a US F-22 over Syria. Russian has also asked for permission to station fighters and bombers at the Nojeh Air Base in NW Iran. The bear is seriously pissed.

I guess we'll soon see if the Israelis are feeling froggy.

TTG

Laurent K , an hour ago

I don't know for the Israelians but US seems very unhappy with the decision:

https://www.washingtonpost....

Pat Lang Mod -> Laurent K , 11 minutes ago
We are unhappy because the Izzies are unhappy.

[Sep 25, 2018] Russia Beefs Up Syria's Air Defenses - Tells Hotheads To Cool Down

Notable quotes:
"... I think the second of your two proposals is much the most likely. ("They were waiting/hoping Russia/Syria would strike the French ship in which case they and the UK planes would attack, justifying a NATO full assault from the NATO ships in the Med and probably WW3.") ..."
"... The US had at least three Major destroyers, two nuclear subs and the "Truman" Aircraft carrier in the Med.The UK Tornados were airborne and so were (certainly) a bevy of US aircraft. ..."
"... I suspect the "scenario" was to have a Syrian missile "threaten" (fired at....) the French Frigate Auvergne, which would have been the excuse for a massive US/NATO/UK/Israeli attack on the Syrians. (but NOT necessarily the Russians, as this would have led to WWIII*** or IV). The French were sending up missiles for just this purpose. The Syrians had to be "seen" firing first at a NATO ship. The Russian Il-20 had to be eliminated as well as it might have picked up compromising proof of the NATO "plan". ..."
"... This is very close to the scenario several years ago, where the US force moved to the far end of the Med. and an Israeli plane fired two missile from behind them, towards Syria to provoke a Syrian response aimed at the US ships. The Russian Radars picked this up and loudly called the bluff. Israel then suddenly said that the missiles were "practice" and dropped them in the sea. ..."
"... What fascinates many analysts is the stubbornness and stupidity of US policy-makers. The more they try to prolong the US unipolar moment, the more incentive they give to other countries to jump on the multipolar bandwagon. ..."
"... Even countries that probably have deep ties with the United States on an oligarchic level will have no alternative other than to modify and redesign their strategic alliances over the next 30 years. The United States continues along the path of diplomatic arrogance and strategic stupidity, mired in a civil war among its elites, with no end in sight. ..."
"... Shoigu: "We're convinced that the implementation of these measures will cool down the hotheads and will prevent rash actions that might threaten our servicemen. If not, we'll be forced to react based on the evolving situation." ..."
"... I can't help thinking of that old US joke, only this time it's real: "The beatings will continue until morale improves." ..."
"... Bolton now says that the Outlaw US Empire will remain in Syria as long as Iranians are there. Well, numerous ethnic Iranians live within Syria. Given his attitude, you'd think he'd be clamoring for Iranians living within the Empire to be rounded up and sent to concentration camps. Bolton reminds me of McCarthy: Big mouth and booze-boosted courage 100% devoid of a morality or ethical principals. ..."
"... It was I believe of the assumption (early analyses of the event) scenario: actually a cruise missile being fired from a a sub, unidentified sub. and was reported from a Cypriot source If i do remember right (that all were the initial hours of the event) that later (after days) morphed in to air to ground being fired from Israel jets? ( I believe it was close to Christmass) ..."
"... So, basically Russian MoD claims that Israel AirForce DID NOT alerted Russia about their operation, that culminated in the misfortunate downing of Il-20. ..."
"... Answering to another poster about the flightradar apps. I wouldn't trust what CIA or DoD could/would and should have been using for propaganda purposes to mess, with evidence or to try to build false leads in trying to promote their narratives. Western sources are in question, as of course Eastern too. For instance Iran banned the Telegram app. according to them there was a version that was been used as a spy tool disguised as civilian application software. ..."
"... Russia declared NO FLY ZONE over LATAKIA ! https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-russia-establishes-no-fly-zone-over-latakia-province-diplomat/ Russia are slow to react , but they run Fast :)! ..."
"... funny how bolton never mentioned anything about israels responsibility for making war on syria...bombing buildings and accidentally or otherwise being directly responsible for the downing of IL-20 where 15 russians died seems not to even cross his mind...that is a vacuous mind indeed.. the hypocrisy is regularly on display from the usa.. if it isn't bolton, it is haley, or some other doofus, talking head from the usa.. ..."
"... an alternative speculation on this is the IL-20 had a lot of valuable intel data with it that was removed from the theatre.. that would suggest the act here on israels part was intentional.. i suspect it was an unintended accident, but one that has big ramifications for israel... i continue to believe we are ramping up to a major war and moving more and more in this direction.. this is another step in the same direction.. i also believe that russia sees it coming and is doing what it feels is the best they can do in this environment.. ..."
"... Shoigu says there will now be "centralised control over all of Syria's air defence facilities and capabilities, the monitoring of airspace and prompt targeting". ..."
"... In other words, Russia will be able to control who gets targeted and shot at. That might be what Israel wants. Russia ensures its planes don't get shot down and in return Israel knows their friend Russia has assumed centralized control over air defenses and they no longer have to worry about independently controlled Syrian missiles ..."
Sep 25, 2018 | www.moonofalabama.org

stonebird , Sep 24, 2018 2:52:46 PM | link

KarlofI@67--
Thanks
Frances @64

I think the second of your two proposals is much the most likely. ("They were waiting/hoping Russia/Syria would strike the French ship in which case they and the UK planes would attack, justifying a NATO full assault from the NATO ships in the Med and probably WW3.")

The US had at least three Major destroyers, two nuclear subs and the "Truman" Aircraft carrier in the Med.The UK Tornados were airborne and so were (certainly) a bevy of US aircraft.

I suspect the "scenario" was to have a Syrian missile "threaten" (fired at....) the French Frigate Auvergne, which would have been the excuse for a massive US/NATO/UK/Israeli attack on the Syrians. (but NOT necessarily the Russians, as this would have led to WWIII*** or IV). The French were sending up missiles for just this purpose. The Syrians had to be "seen" firing first at a NATO ship. The Russian Il-20 had to be eliminated as well as it might have picked up compromising proof of the NATO "plan".

This is very close to the scenario several years ago, where the US force moved to the far end of the Med. and an Israeli plane fired two missile from behind them, towards Syria to provoke a Syrian response aimed at the US ships. The Russian Radars picked this up and loudly called the bluff. Israel then suddenly said that the missiles were "practice" and dropped them in the sea.

*** I reckon we are IN WWIII as sanctions and asymetric warfare are ....warfare. So next is WWIV

karlof1 , Sep 24, 2018 2:54:18 PM | link

Federico Pieraccini provides an Autumnal Equinox update of the Big Picture situation, concluding:

"What fascinates many analysts is the stubbornness and stupidity of US policy-makers. The more they try to prolong the US unipolar moment, the more incentive they give to other countries to jump on the multipolar bandwagon.

"Even countries that probably have deep ties with the United States on an oligarchic level will have no alternative other than to modify and redesign their strategic alliances over the next 30 years. The United States continues along the path of diplomatic arrogance and strategic stupidity, mired in a civil war among its elites, with no end in sight."

It's UNGA time again, so we'll get to see the arrogance and stupidity play out in public.

Grieved , Sep 24, 2018 2:54:50 PM | link
Shoigu: "We're convinced that the implementation of these measures will cool down the hotheads and will prevent rash actions that might threaten our servicemen. If not, we'll be forced to react based on the evolving situation."

And it's a good time to remember that Russia always leads with its best terms. If forced to continue negotiating, the terms get increasingly tough.

~~

I can't help thinking of that old US joke, only this time it's real: "The beatings will continue until morale improves."

;)

karlof1 , Sep 24, 2018 4:36:52 PM | link
juliania @39--

I suspect Zionist arrogance never allowed them to even consider consequences as they'd gotten away with similar attacks. IMO, the Zionist act differed little from their targeted killings of Palestinian protesters in Gaza. This cartoon I found on Twitter is close to being correct. I said it was Russia's USS Liberty moment, but Russia's reaction wasn't anything like the bent-over passivity displayed by LBJ.

Bolton now says that the Outlaw US Empire will remain in Syria as long as Iranians are there. Well, numerous ethnic Iranians live within Syria. Given his attitude, you'd think he'd be clamoring for Iranians living within the Empire to be rounded up and sent to concentration camps. Bolton reminds me of McCarthy: Big mouth and booze-boosted courage 100% devoid of a morality or ethical principals.

Greece , Sep 24, 2018 4:37:38 PM | link
KarlofI@67--
Thanks
Frances @64
I think the second of your two proposals is much the most likely. ("They were waiting/hoping Russia/Syria would strike the French ship in which case they and the UK planes would attack, justifying a NATO full assault from the NATO ships in the Med and probably WW3.")

The US had at least three Major destroyers, two nuclear subs and the "Truman" Aircraft carrier in the Med.The UK Tornados were airborne and so were (certainly) a bevy of US aircraft.

I suspect the "scenario" was to have a Syrian missile "threaten" (fired at....) the French Frigate Auvergne, which would have been the excuse for a massive US/NATO/UK/Israeli attack on the Syrians. (but NOT necessarily the Russians, as this would have led to WWIII*** or IV). The French were sending up missiles for just this purpose. The Syrians had to be "seen" firing first at a NATO ship. The Russian Il-20 had to be eliminated as well as it might have picked up compromising proof of the NATO "plan".

This is very close to the scenario several years ago, where the US force moved to the far end of the Med. and an Israeli plane fired two missile from behind them, towards Syria to provoke a Syrian response aimed at the US ships. The Russian Radars picked this up and loudly called the bluff. Israel then suddenly said that the missiles were "practice" and dropped them in the sea.

*** I reckon we are IN WWIII as sanctions and asymetric warfare are ....warfare. So next is WWIV

Posted by: stonebird | Sep 24, 2018 2:52:46 PM | 72

Excellent find!

It was I believe of the assumption (early analyses of the event) scenario: actually a cruise missile being fired from a a sub, unidentified sub. and was reported from a Cypriot source If i do remember right (that all were the initial hours of the event) that later (after days) morphed in to air to ground being fired from Israel jets? ( I believe it was close to Christmass)

Also as a answer to what you mentioned above I also quote this post from another poster:

Russian MoD explicitly denies claims made earlier by Israeli MoD

"At 22:03 a Syrian anti-aircraft missile engaged a larger and closer target – Il-20 airplane. The commander reported on the fire on board and emergency descent. At 22:07 the Russian Il-20 survey airplane went off the radars. Meanwhile, the Israeli jets did not leave for their air space but stayed in the region and continued patrolling in the air till 22:40."

and "I would like to stress that during negotiations via the deconfliction channel, the representative of the Israeli Air Force Headquarters reported on the targets assigned to the Israeli aircraft in north Syria. The dialogue was held in Russian. The Russian Defence Ministry has a record of the talk.

.....

As you can see on the map, the Israeli jets delivered strikes not in the north of the Syrian Arab Republic but in Latakia region which is the western province of the country. Besides, the city of Latakia is located on the western coast."

So, basically Russian MoD claims that Israel AirForce DID NOT alerted Russia about their operation, that culminated in the misfortunate downing of Il-20.

Some other operation was announced, indeed. But not this one.

Now, that is quite a claim.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 24, 2018 9:13:41 AM | 18

Ok, so now we have a clearer picture.

According to Russian MoD the IL20 since the first 7 or 10 minutes the Israeli group was "in the picture" it was already going down in flames hit by the S-200 at 22:07, which had already tracked the targets and fired upon at 22:03. Though the Israel group stayed "in the picture" at least until 22:40 , this time performing a second mission, of CAP, first one was probably a Strike mission to Syrian coasts. So this leads me to assume there were 4 MISSIONS in operation for the Israeli Air force or allies happening to be in the region. 1 Strike, 1 CAP, 1 a third party trying to remove evidence from the floating debri of the IL-20 (data modules/equipment etc) 4 another delivery mission to insert a sleeper package, right beneath Syrian defence noses and what would be (in a few minutes) the Russian SAR area in trying to acquire the parts of the downed plane.

The "sleeper" can always be something that can be activated at later dates. (IDF used to send artificial rocks that were hiding opto/aqustic equipment during Russian ships supply runs, during time Russians were trying to establish base at Latakia and israelis were trying to spy on the ships unloading stuff)

So in all I believe this was a calculated mission from Israel, not only to kill the IL20 but to establish other advantages during time of chos etc.
This is about the Israelis, do not trust them, even if they say the sun is shining outside you should go an check it out yourself.

Answering to another poster about the flightradar apps. I wouldn't trust what CIA or DoD could/would and should have been using for propaganda purposes to mess, with evidence or to try to build false leads in trying to promote their narratives. Western sources are in question, as of course Eastern too. For instance Iran banned the Telegram app. according to them there was a version that was been used as a spy tool disguised as civilian application software.

kemi , Sep 24, 2018 4:51:31 PM | link
Russia declared NO FLY ZONE over LATAKIA ! https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-russia-establishes-no-fly-zone-over-latakia-province-diplomat/ Russia are slow to react , but they run Fast :)!
james , Sep 24, 2018 6:24:20 PM | link
@80 juliania... you might be right and there was some direct connection to idlib, or the peace agreement turkey and russia reached just prior to this event.. i mostly think of it as a series of events where israel didn't foresee the end result... the term 'hothead' that i believe shoigu used in the past 24 hours as reason for deploying the s-300s, applies directly to israel as i see it..

meanwhile boltons comments.. "Russian plans to supply Syria with a S-300 missile system would be a "significant escalation" by Moscow, US National Security Advisor John Bolton said on Monday." https://www.rt.com/newsline/439235-us-bolton-russia-syria/

funny how bolton never mentioned anything about israels responsibility for making war on syria...bombing buildings and accidentally or otherwise being directly responsible for the downing of IL-20 where 15 russians died seems not to even cross his mind...that is a vacuous mind indeed.. the hypocrisy is regularly on display from the usa.. if it isn't bolton, it is haley, or some other doofus, talking head from the usa..

an alternative speculation on this is the IL-20 had a lot of valuable intel data with it that was removed from the theatre.. that would suggest the act here on israels part was intentional.. i suspect it was an unintended accident, but one that has big ramifications for israel... i continue to believe we are ramping up to a major war and moving more and more in this direction.. this is another step in the same direction.. i also believe that russia sees it coming and is doing what it feels is the best they can do in this environment..

@90 usa=isis..here is another article from smoothie today that you might want to read and consider...

http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2018/09/fast-thoughts-on-issue-of-projection.html

uncle tungsten , Sep 24, 2018 7:08:59 PM | link
With one dopey, hubris driven blunder the israeli and yankee governments have lost the lot. Russia has grasped air dominance as a shield for Iran, Turkey, Lebanon, as well as Syria. The Russians have cemented the security of allies in the region. (Not that Turkey could see or appreciate that)

Now Iran has an advance proxy defence at the entire Syrian western border. Lebanon is no longer a permanent cringing victim and will find expansion and other changes in its public and political mind. Syria and Lebanon are no longer the captive of israeli predation as their airspace and seaspace are more secure.

The israelis and yankees will not stand for this as it has totally transformed the military theatre to their exclusion. Now Russia has visited on them the same medicine as they dish out on Russia's western border region. Watch for madness and histrionics and more blundering, stupidity.

Peter AU 1 , Sep 24, 2018 7:54:12 PM | link
S-400 to Syria, response to Turkey shooting down the SU-24.
S-300 to Tartus and upgrading and linking of Syrian systems to Russian command, response
to US attack threats at the time of the Aleppo offensive.
Now Russian spec S-300 spread throughout Syria as a response to latest US threats of attack and the Israeli downing of the IL-20.

Thinking about this, fast delivery of S-300 to Syria may have been decided on even before the downing of the IL-20. The short term deal with Erdogan giving time to get the extra S-300 systems in place before the main attack on Idlib occurs.

Pft , Sep 24, 2018 9:07:32 PM | link
Shoigu says there will now be "centralised control over all of Syria's air defence facilities and capabilities, the monitoring of airspace and prompt targeting".

In other words, Russia will be able to control who gets targeted and shot at. That might be what Israel wants. Russia ensures its planes don't get shot down and in return Israel knows their friend Russia has assumed centralized control over air defenses and they no longer have to worry about independently controlled Syrian missiles

That explains how quickly Russia was able to act and "suggests" perhaps a false flag forcing Syria to cede more control of its air defences to Russia ? It also explains why Russia is not worried about Israelis reponse to them giving Syria S300 since they will control targetting and can override Syrian operators.

Not married to this hypothesis , just throwing it out there

Yeah, Right , Sep 24, 2018 9:24:03 PM | link
@114 Frances. One possibility is that the Russians will ship in more S-400 for their own use, thereby allowing them to hand over existing S-300 installations to the Syrian Army.

That would allow for the "two week delivery" to the Syrians, since all they need to do is take the keys and drive the units out of the Russian base.

Note that if this is how the Russians do it then the Syrian S-300 will definitely be the non-export version.

frances , Sep 24, 2018 9:45:17 PM | link
reply to:

"That would allow for the "two week delivery" to the Syrians, since all they need to do is take the keys and drive the units out of the Russian base. Note that if this is how the Russians do it then the Syrian S-300 will definitely be the non-export version."

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 24, 2018 9:24:03 PM | 116

You could be right re the systems, I do think the "two weeks" statement is the time frame in which the system will be live, not when they will be delivered.
Russia has no reason to trust Israel whatsoever, any time line would be misleading IMO.

[Sep 24, 2018] Not only Russian and (allegedly) Israeli and French aircraft and missiles were in the air. Civilian radar also tracked British Royal Air Force aircraft, which, unusually, had switched on their transponders and gone into holding patterns." If true, this strongly suggests a set-up and with NATO involvement

Notable quotes:
"... Exactly. It's obvious the Israelis intended for the French ship to be attacked, setting off god knows what chain of events. ..."
"... Israel is certainly responsible for precipitating the incident, but the accusations that Israel somehow purposely caused Syria to shoot down the airplane - as if the Syrians were helpless to prevent it - are without merit. ..."
"... Some salient facts: Syrian air defenses either knew the location of the Russian plane or they didn't. If they didn't know the plane was there, then that is a problem of coordination between Russian and Syrian military forces. Given that the Russian and Syrian AD networks are supposed to be integrated, I'd say this is the less likely option. If the Syrians did know the plane was there, then the Syrians are to blame for poor fire discipline and probably incompetence. Deliberately shooting at enemy aircraft when a friendly aircraft is in the line of fire is a big no no in air defense doctrine (and a big no no as a general rule for any use of force), especially with a weapon as unwieldy as an SA-5. ..."
"... The so-called integrated networks between the Russian and Syrian AD systems appears to have not been working. Or someone was asleep, or in panic, at one end. I vote for panic. Those Syrian missileers are under serious pressure by Assad to bring down an Israeli aircraft, which is probably affecting their nerves and their judgment. ..."
"... Does Israel really care? It seems that Bibi Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman believe they can act with impunity since no one has held them to account to date. ..."
"... Putin was explicit in his conversation with Bibi that Israel not only violates Syria's airspace but violated previous agreements with Russia on matters of attacking Syrian/Iranian targets. ..."
"... There will be consequences and Putin also was explicit today when stated that, and I quote, "everyone will notice them". While it is a sad day for Russia and is agony for families of the crew, it is also clear (and thank God) that France and her ship had no hand in it whatsoever. ..."
"... It seems to me that Putin's response was too 'soft'. Unlike Shoigu's. Perhaps there is some divergence between Russian political and military policies with regard to Israel. What happens as a result of this tragedy will clarify matters. Putin cannot afford to alienate his military (and thus the Russian people) for the sake of Israel. ..."
"... Right. One must ask why Putin is acting this way. He has actually taken Trump off the hook. If the offensive had gone in Trump would have been under a lot of pressure to take military action when the WH drama played out. ..."
"... The DMZ agreement prevents that, and now he takes this soft line over this bit of Israeli cleverness that cost Shoigu 14 men for no good reason, Curious. One might think he does not want to rock the boat before the mid term. ..."
"... Bingo! Plus a chance for Turkey to clean up her act a bit. It is a good old anecdote about two bulls (old and young) standing on the hill looking down at the cows' herd. ..."
"... IMO, the new deal between R+6 and Turkey on Idlib for time being is smart ..."
"... It's a salami slicing strategy VS. an open between R+6 and entire west while Turkey playing both sides and collect concessions. IMO R+6 can better afford buying time than the scarce resources while they all are under economic sanctions. ..."
"... A timeline of the Israeli F-16's actions that resulted in the downing of the IL-20 in Izvestia. It was completely intentional. The planes were within several hundred meters of each other. The Israeli's set up the IL-20 knowing beforehand it would be destroyed. https://iz.ru/790550/kirill... ..."
"... Yes. Anyone who wants to absolve the Israelis of guilt in this matter is just a sap. ..."
"... Perhaps in your time in Russia the Kremlin was a monolith. It doesn't seem so now, certainly as far as the expression of differing views are concerned (eg, Shoigu's vs Putin's). Such differing views, publicly expressed, do represent their institutions' views. I have no doubt that Russia's military is very unhappy with Israel's actions in this incident. And, would like to teach Israel a lesson. But they don't make policy (theirs is only one input), and they follow the policies ultimately decided by the state. ..."
"... I think there will be 'visible' changes to Russia's security posture in Syria, as Putin has unambiguously stated..and probably very quickly...the objective of those changes will be to minimize the potential of any such provocations succeeding going forward...the Israelis going forward will need to pull in their horns, and their media is already discussing this... ..."
"... There is a growing sentiment, that Russia is handling too softly the attacks on its armed forces. The lack of visible or spectacular retaliations, counteractions is making an impression of a very narrow set of choices in Russia's Syria policy. ..."
Sep 20, 2018 | disqus.com

John Gilberts 2 days ago ,

In reporting the shoot-down of the Russian IL-20, Harretz reported that "Not only Russian and (allegedly) Israeli and French aircraft and missiles were in the air. Civilian radar also tracked British Royal Air Force aircraft, which, unusually, had switched on their transponders and gone into holding patterns." If true, this strongly suggests a set-up and with NATO involvement.

Vicky SD John Gilberts 2 days ago ,

Exactly. It's obvious the Israelis intended for the French ship to be attacked, setting off god knows what chain of events.

Andy a day ago ,

Israel is certainly responsible for precipitating the incident, but the accusations that Israel somehow purposely caused Syria to shoot down the airplane - as if the Syrians were helpless to prevent it - are without merit.

Some salient facts: Syrian air defenses either knew the location of the Russian plane or they didn't. If they didn't know the plane was there, then that is a problem of coordination between Russian and Syrian military forces. Given that the Russian and Syrian AD networks are supposed to be integrated, I'd say this is the less likely option. If the Syrians did know the plane was there, then the Syrians are to blame for poor fire discipline and probably incompetence. Deliberately shooting at enemy aircraft when a friendly aircraft is in the line of fire is a big no no in air defense doctrine (and a big no no as a general rule for any use of force), especially with a weapon as unwieldy as an SA-5.

Eugene Owens Andy a day ago ,

Andy - Regarding IFF: Smoothie down below claims the Syrians were never given Russian IFF technology and codes.

But the two Russian-manned S-400 systems certainly had them. The so-called integrated networks between the Russian and Syrian AD systems appears to have not been working. Or someone was asleep, or in panic, at one end. I vote for panic. Those Syrian missileers are under serious pressure by Assad to bring down an Israeli aircraft, which is probably affecting their nerves and their judgment.

smoothieX12 . blue peacock 2 days ago ,

Does Israel really care? It seems that Bibi Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman believe they can act with impunity since no one has held them to account to date.

Yes she does, otherwise CO of IAF wouldn't have been on his way to Moscow and Bibi urgently calling Putin. Once one gets more complete details of the event, such as teeny-weeny fact of Russia not providing Syrian AD (and with a good reason) with own IFF technology and codes--things become much more clearer. This was confirmed today.

Of course military counter-intelligence still has to do its due diligence but it increasingly begins to look more as FUBAR rather than some "special" operations.

Most likely, in fact highly likely, IAF F-16s were detected and tracked (and even possibly locked on) by Syrian S-200 and they "masked" (the oldest trick in the book) by descending IL-20.

Putin was explicit in his conversation with Bibi that Israel not only violates Syria's airspace but violated previous agreements with Russia on matters of attacking Syrian/Iranian targets.

There will be consequences and Putin also was explicit today when stated that, and I quote, "everyone will notice them". While it is a sad day for Russia and is agony for families of the crew, it is also clear (and thank God) that France and her ship had no hand in it whatsoever.

Is Putin between a rock and a hard place in Syria? He's committed significant capabilities to assist Assad in regaining control of Syrian territory, but FUKUS and Turkey are playing a spoilers game with the possibility that they could enter the Syrian conflict with an even larger force structure.

Actually, he didn't commit "significant" capabilities. They are very moderate by Russia standards. You want to see significant capabilities--Google Vostok 2018. That's significant. The appearance of new capabilities in Syria is long overdue, precisely for the reason that it is Russia who is keeping a barrel to Turkey's temple, not the other way around. They are needed their anyway just in case FUKUS decides to respond to absolutely unexpected and evil chemical weapons attacks by Assad.

FB Ali smoothieX12 .2 days ago ,

It seems to me that Putin's response was too 'soft'. Unlike Shoigu's. Perhaps there is some divergence between Russian political and military policies with regard to Israel. What happens as a result of this tragedy will clarify matters. Putin cannot afford to alienate his military (and thus the Russian people) for the sake of Israel.

Pat Lang Mod FB Ali2 days ago ,

Right. One must ask why Putin is acting this way. He has actually taken Trump off the hook. If the offensive had gone in Trump would have been under a lot of pressure to take military action when the WH drama played out.

The DMZ agreement prevents that, and now he takes this soft line over this bit of Israeli cleverness that cost Shoigu 14 men for no good reason, Curious. One might think he does not want to rock the boat before the mid term.

smoothieX12 . Pat Lang2 days ago ,

Right. One must ask why Putin is acting this way. He has actually taken Trump off the hook. If the offensive had gone in Trump would have been under a lot of pressure to take military action when the WH drama played out.

Bingo! Plus a chance for Turkey to clean up her act a bit. It is a good old anecdote about two bulls (old and young) standing on the hill looking down at the cows' herd.

Pat Lang Mod smoothieX12 .2 days ago ,

Yup "let's walk down and do them all ..."

Kooshy smoothieX12 .a day ago ,

IMO, the new deal between R+6 and Turkey on Idlib for time being is smart, I think for R+6 is the right strategy for now. IMO the thinking behind it was, it's better to keep Turkey on this (Astana) side of the war rather than let her loose spoiler or worst to let her go back to the West/Arab/Israel alliance and allow re arming the jihadis. It's a salami slicing strategy VS. an open between R+6 and entire west while Turkey playing both sides and collect concessions. IMO R+6 can better afford buying time than the scarce resources while they all are under economic sanctions.

Bill Herschel Pat Langa day ago ,

A timeline of the Israeli F-16's actions that resulted in the downing of the IL-20 in Izvestia. It was completely intentional. The planes were within several hundred meters of each other. The Israeli's set up the IL-20 knowing beforehand it would be destroyed. https://iz.ru/790550/kirill...

Pat Lang Mod Bill Herschela day ago ,

Yes. Anyone who wants to absolve the Israelis of guilt in this matter is just a sap.

smoothieX12 . FB Ali2 days ago ,

Perhaps there is some divergence between Russian political and military policies with regard to Israel.

This divergence is mostly a fantasy of Western political class and media. They project their own view on how their own government operates (or rather does not) onto Kremlin and that is why they always wrong.

FB Ali smoothieX12 .a day ago ,

Perhaps in your time in Russia the Kremlin was a monolith. It doesn't seem so now, certainly as far as the expression of differing views are concerned (eg, Shoigu's vs Putin's). Such differing views, publicly expressed, do represent their institutions' views. I have no doubt that Russia's military is very unhappy with Israel's actions in this incident. And, would like to teach Israel a lesson. But they don't make policy (theirs is only one input), and they follow the policies ultimately decided by the state.

Many other factors need to be taken into account in the finalization of the State's policies. The policies of the Russian state are expressed by its head (ie, Putin).

FB FB Ali2 days ago ,

I think there will be 'visible' changes to Russia's security posture in Syria, as Putin has unambiguously stated..and probably very quickly...the objective of those changes will be to minimize the potential of any such provocations succeeding going forward...the Israelis going forward will need to pull in their horns, and their media is already discussing this...

Again, I don't think we must necessarily assume that the goat is Israel here...yes they were involved in what was clearly a plot, but it is also very possible that the Russian plane was downed by the French or British...

Bálint Somkuti FB Ali2 days ago ,

There is a growing sentiment, that Russia is handling too softly the attacks on its armed forces. The lack of visible or spectacular retaliations, counteractions is making an impression of a very narrow set of choices in Russia's Syria policy.

smoothieX12 . Bálint Somkuti2 days ago ,

There is a growing sentiment, that Russia is handling too softly the attacks on its armed forces.

Growing among who? Armchair strategists? Granted, I am one myself.

[Sep 23, 2018] "White Helmets" is used in preference to the alternative, all too well associated in the popular imagination with the acme of American culture: the Western.

Sep 23, 2018 | thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com

Cortes September 21, 2018 at 2:41 pm

"White Helmets" is used in preference to the alternative, all too well associated in the popular imagination with the acme of American culture: the Western.

And in the classic commercial way, it provides a twofer, since the white helmet first gained widespread popularity with the Village People, so it clicks with the whole LGBTQ touchy feely approach to world affairs we're always being told is essential. Real world hard hats tend to be in high-vis, almost painfully bright colours – orange, red, maybe blue.

White? In the Levant, where half or more of the buildings are white to reflect the sun?

Mark Chapman September 21, 2018 at 10:41 pm
Those are really bad. But I don't see much to link them to the White Helmets – just one guy with what I guess is their insignia on the back of his shirt, and nobody wearing the famous white helmets. It almost looks like someone deliberately making a fake which is full of holes, to implicate the White Helmets in making fake films. Just playing devil's advocate here. It would be very easy indeed for the White Helmets to disown these videos if they do not gain any traction.
Patient Observer September 22, 2018 at 2:20 pm
IIRC, the Russian government said a number of videos were shot with most being of low quality and would go straight to YouTube. Two were of sufficiently high cinematic quality to be released to Western media outlets.

However, with the recent agreement to stop military action in Idlib, it would seem that there is no longer an opportunity to use the videos as a justification for a Western military attack.

Indeed, the Idlib agreement has removed any pretext for Western attacks for the foreseeable future. That is big. The military phase of the war in Syria seems to be over.

[Sep 23, 2018] One minute warning was a part of Israeli plan

Sep 23, 2018 | www.unz.com

The scalpel , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 8:04 pm GMT

@Andrei Martyanov

.It all sounds like a pure Syrian IFF fuck-up, not an Israeli conjob.
When Powers was shot down in his U-2 over USSR, the other downed aircraft was Soviet Aviation of PVO MiG-17 (or 19--don't remember from the top of my head). A classic case of "friendly fire". Andrei, I have never seen you blow so much smoke or work so hard to quell emotions I guess it may be justified in doing what one can to stop WWIII. Maybe there are other reasons.

You are usually very careful to make sure that, in your writing, 2+2 = 4. This time, perhaps for the above reasons, not so much. You claim that most posts on this thread are emotional rants or trolls, yet you have spent most of your efforts trying to calm emotions and not addressing more serious flaws in the official story.

Harold Smith rightly pointed out that the F16s did not end up behind the IL20 by mistake. This was not some joy ride by the F16s. It was a well planned intentional operation. The Israelis knew the habits and capabilities of the IL20 and made plans accordingly using cover from the IL20 as their method to penetrate within the envelope of the S200s. The 1 minute warning was a part of that plan. Any more warning would have exposed the F16s to much more danger.

The Israelis knew a one minute warning was inadequate but gave it just for its value of plausible deniability. They probably expected the S200s to hold their fire but they had no way of being sure of that. Instead, they made an intentional plan, using the IL20 as cover and intentionally putting the IL20 at risk of shoot down in order to protect their F16s. The one minute warning was good for plausible deniability, nothing more.

Then we see Netanyahu rushing to de-escalate. The only thing he can plausibly say to Putin is that this was intentional but done without his knowledge or permission. To claim it was a "tragic error" is a joke. Would Putin believe that? Not likely. Thus we have a whole delegation flying to Moscow to attempt to bolster that argument.

Not that the political players give a damn about it, but Israel's actions here are blatant violations of international law, probably war crimes, and well, just plain immoral. But it is only regular guys like me that care about stuff like that.

[Sep 23, 2018] Let's put it this way, once Russians and Americans begin to kill each-other, Israel goes immediately down. In fact, it will cease to exist as a state. But who wants to pay such a price? Bibi knows that.

Sep 23, 2018 | www.unz.com

Andrei Martyanov , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 8:49 pm GMT

@VICB3 Please see VicB3 Comment above.

Thanks.

VicB3

-Israel has a history of false flag operations.

She does and this latest event could have been (with high degree of probability) precipitated by Russian-Turkey-Iranian arrangement on Idlib, because isolation of Israeli-friendly (or rather openly supported by her) most radical Islamic groups will happen and that means Israel losing one of her most important pieces of strategy of keeping ME destabilized. But then again–a good proof of effectiveness of Russia's actions in the area, isn't it? Good ol' classic cliche: the flak is heavy, that means we are over target.

-Israel has a fleet of quiet diesel-electric subs.

Yes, she does–German built.

-It has been shown that diesel electric subs have in the past easily come within striking distance of U.S. carriers.

True, even nukes (subs) have penetrated ASW "shield" and conducted lengthy trailing of CBGs many times.

-If Israel wanted to suck the United States into a shooting war in Syria, it would make sense to sink the Truman with one of it's subs, blaming in on Russia. The United States egged on by its NeoCon contingents and in a fit of emotionalism – think 9/11 – would almost certainly react before thinking.

Ahh, not quite. Recall what happened with Kursk, the first act of the United States was to have CIA Director be on the first flight to Moscow. No, it doesn't work like this and, I have suspicion that, however deplorable Israel's policies are, Israel proper intelligence and military people are on the order of magnitude smarter, however deviously, and calculating than American neocons most of whom are dumb as fvcks and good only in bribery and mass-media tantrums. Reaction of Israel in all this situation is the best proof.

-Of course, one something like this did happen, you'd have a war. And war is a wild thing that, once turned loose, does what it wants and is out of control.

Let's put it this way, once Russians and Americans begin to kill each-other, Israel goes immediately down. In fact, it will cease to exist as a state. But who wants to pay such a price? Bibi knows that.

Andrei Martyanov , says: Website September 22, 2018 at 9:05 pm GMT
@Erebus

Let's put it this way, once Russians and Americans begin to kill each-other, Israel goes immediately down. In fact, it will cease to exist as a state.
Can you expand on that?

Unless you're simply pointing out that escalation to a large scale nuclear exchange means all states "will cease to exist', this is a non-trivial statement that begs explication.

Can you expand on that?

Israel is a known "owner" of nuclear weapons and is the nation which, depending on scenario, has the ability to attack pretty much anything in Europe. Possible counter-force scenario between Russia and US will involve "killing" of Israel's nuclear deterrent, as it will be with European NATO members (UK and France), but Israel is tiny and any nuclear strike there is, basically, a death sentence. This is in a nutshell–of course contingencies vary but I am sure Israel's nuclear sites are in the targeting data base of Russia's nuclear triad. That is until Israel gets the message and gets back to daddy (or mommy) and that is what is in play right now. It will take some time, though.

[Sep 23, 2018] 'Criminal negligence' or disregard to Russia-Israel ties MoD details chronology of Il-20 downing -- RT World News

Notable quotes:
"... "We believe that the blame for the Russian Il-20 aircraft tragedy lies entirely with the Israeli Air Force," ..."
"... "the military leadership of Israel either has no appreciation for the level of relations with Russia, or has no control over individual commands or commanding officers who understood that their actions would lead to tragedy." ..."
"... "a clear violation of the 2015 Russian-Israeli agreements." ..."
"... The misleading information provided by the Israeli officer about the area of strikes did not allow the Russian Il-20 airplane to move timely to a safe area. ..."
"... "preferred target" ..."
"... "The Israeli jets saw the Russian Ilyushin Il-20 and used it as a shield against the anti-aircraft missiles ..."
"... , while they carried on maneuvering in the region," ..."
"... The actions of the Israeli fighter pilots, which led to the loss of life of 15 Russian servicemen, either lacked professionalism or were an act of criminal negligence, to say the least. ..."
"... "This is an extremely ungrateful response to all that has been done by the Russian Federation for Israel and the Israeli people recently," ..."
"... "ensure there were no shelling attacks on Israeli territory" ..."
"... "a six-year hiatus." ..."
"... "safe distance for Israel," ..."
"... "A total of 1,050 personnel, 24 MLRSs and tactical missiles, as well as 145 pieces of other munitions and military equipment were withdrawn from the area," ..."
"... In view of the above, the hostile actions committed by the Israeli Air Force against the Russian Ilyushin Il-20 aircraft cross the line of civilized relations. ..."
Sep 23, 2018 | www.rt.com

Criminal negligence' or disregard to Russia-Israel ties: MoD details chronology of Il-20 downing Published time: 23 Sep, 2018 08:21 Edited time: 23 Sep, 2018 17:18 Get short URL © Russian Defense Ministry A minute-by-minute account of the Il-20 downing shows Israel's culpability and either its military bosses' lack of appreciation of relations with Moscow, or their control of commanding officers, the Russian defense ministry said. "We believe that the blame for the Russian Il-20 aircraft tragedy lies entirely with the Israeli Air Force," said spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov, before revealing a detailed account of events leading to the downing of the Russian Il-20 military aircraft on September 17. The plane was shot down by the Syrian air defense units as Israeli's F-16s effectively used it as a cover during the attack on its neighbor.

The report featured previously undisclosed radar data and details of communications between Russian and Israeli militaries, and concluded that "the military leadership of Israel either has no appreciation for the level of relations with Russia, or has no control over individual commands or commanding officers who understood that their actions would lead to tragedy."

Read more FILE PHOTO. Russian IL-20M. © Alexander KOPITAR / AFP 'You are to blame for downing of Il-20 and death of its crew,' Russia tells Israel Misinformation & 'criminal negligence'

On the evening of September 17, the Russian Ilyushin IL-20 with 15 crew on board was circling over the Idlib de-escalation zone on a special reconnaissance mission, when four Israeli F-16 fighter jets left their country's airspace and flew over the neutral Mediterranean waters towards the Syrian coast. The Israeli Air Force gave the Russian side less than a minute's warning before dropping the precision-guided glide bombs, leaving virtually no time for any safety maneuvers, Konashenkov said, calling such actions "a clear violation of the 2015 Russian-Israeli agreements."

Moreover, the Israeli military failed to provide the location of their jets or properly specify their targets, claiming they were going to attack several 'industrial facilities' in northern Syria, close to the Il-20's area of operation. The misinformation prompted the Russian Command to order the recon plane back to the Khmeimim air base. The Israeli jets, however, instead almost immediately attacked the western Syrian Latakia province.

The misleading information provided by the Israeli officer about the area of strikes did not allow the Russian Il-20 airplane to move timely to a safe area.

Once the Syrian air defenses responded to the initial strike, the Israeli jets switched on radar jamming and pulled back, apparently preparing for another attack. One of the Israeli jets then came closer to the Syrian coast and approached the Russian plane, which was preparing to land at that time.

An Israeli jet approaching the Russian plane at a time when the Syrian anti-air missile was launched © Russian Defense Ministry

The Israeli pilot must have been well aware of the fact that the Il-20 has a much larger radar cross-section than his F-16, and would become a "preferred target" for the Syrian air defense units, who use different friend-or-foe systems with the Russians, Konashenkov said. Thus, for the Syrians, the reconnaissance plane could appear as a group of Israeli jets.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Qg9GliGS0RY

"The Israeli jets saw the Russian Ilyushin Il-20 and used it as a shield against the anti-aircraft missiles , while they carried on maneuvering in the region," Konashenkov said during the news briefing.

The actions of the Israeli fighter pilots, which led to the loss of life of 15 Russian servicemen, either lacked professionalism or were an act of criminal negligence, to say the least.

Finally, the Israeli jets carried out their maneuvers in the immediate vicinity of the Khmeimim air base, which is used both by military and civilian aircraft, including passenger planes, the ministry's spokesman emphasized, saying that the reckless actions of the Israeli pilots could also have posed a threat to any passenger or transport aircraft that may have happened to be there at that time.

Israel 'crossed the line of civilized relations' with 'ungrateful response'

Israel's negligent behavior amounts to a flagrant violation of the very spirit of cooperation between the countries, Konashenkov stated, noting that Russia has never broken its commitment to the deconfliction agreement – it has always informed Israel about their missions in advance and has never used its air defense capabilities against the Israelis, even though their airstrikes sometimes put the Russian servicemen in danger.

Read more FILE PHOTO An Israeli F-16 fighter jet during the Blue Flag drill November 25, 2013 © Amir Cohen Israeli army blames Damascus for Russia's Il-20 downing, mourns death of crew – statement

Russia has sent as many as 310 notifications to the Israeli Air Force Command, while the latter appeared to be reluctant to show the same level of commitment, notifying only 25 times even though its jets carried out more than 200 strikes against targets located in Syria over the past 18 months alone.

"This is an extremely ungrateful response to all that has been done by the Russian Federation for Israel and the Israeli people recently," Konashenkov said.

The Russian military supported the Syrian military operation in the Golan Heights to "ensure there were no shelling attacks on Israeli territory" anymore, thus allowing the UN peacekeeping mission to resume patrolling of the contested border between Syria and Israel after "a six-year hiatus."

Russia also managed to secure the withdrawal of all Iran-backed groups from the Golan Heights to a "safe distance for Israel," more than 140 kilometers to the east of Syria, the spokesperson said, adding that this was done at the request of Tel Aviv. "A total of 1,050 personnel, 24 MLRSs and tactical missiles, as well as 145 pieces of other munitions and military equipment were withdrawn from the area," Konashenkov told journalists.

The Russian Defense Ministry had provided assistance in preserving Jewish sacred places and graves in the city of Aleppo. Putting Russian Special Forces soldiers' lives in danger, it also organized the search for the remains of some Israeli servicemen that died during the past conflicts in an area where the Syrian forces were combating Islamic State (IS, former ISIS) terrorists at that time.

In view of the above, the hostile actions committed by the Israeli Air Force against the Russian Ilyushin Il-20 aircraft cross the line of civilized relations.

While Israel said that it mourned the deaths of Russian troops, the IDF statement following the incident shifted all the blame for the incident solely on Damascus, and its Iranian and Lebanese allies.

[Sep 23, 2018] Israel to Continue Military Op in Syria Despite Il-20 Downing Lieberman - Sputnik International

Sep 23, 2018 | sputniknews.com

Israel to Continue Military Op in Syria Despite Il-20 Downing – Lieberman © REUTERS / Baz Ratner Middle East 16:21 23.09.2018 (updated 17:58 23.09.2018) Get short URL Topic: Russian Il-20 Military Plane Shot Down Over Syria (29) 8 1 25 Russia blames Israel for the destruction of the Il-20, which cost the lives of 15 servicemen, after it emerged that around the time if its demise, Israeli fighter jets were in immediate proximity to the Russian plane. The Russian Ministry of Defense accused the Israeli Air Force of providing misleading information about the area where planned air strikes on Syrian targets were to take place, violating an agreement with Russia, and shortly afterwards Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman stated Israel won't ditch conducting operations in Syria to thwart Iran's military presence there, despite the tragic Il-20 incident. The Russian Defense Ministry released detailed information on Il-20 crash in Syria © Photo : Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation WATCH 3D Reconstruction of Il-20 Downing in Syria, Released by Russian MoD

"We have been operating prudently and responsibly and only in cases where we've had no other choice. So nothing has changed or will change. This is our policy," Israeli Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman told the local radio station Kan in an interview published Sunday morning.

"We won't let Syria be turned into a main Iranian military facility against the Israeli state. We continue to act and we have all the necessary means and opportunities to this end," he noted.

Flicker of Hope for Effective Dialogue

According to Lieberman, Israeli military servicemen continue to pin their hopes on good communication, which they established with Russian military units in Syria three years ago to avoid potential conflicts.

IL-20 © Photo: arms-expo.ru Israel Can't Get Away With Il-20 Downing in Syria – IR Scholars

"The whole incident is under examination and control. We have an ongoing dialogue. The general picture and facts are all clear, and I think the situation will be resolved," Lieberman said.

Israel has yet to admit guilt in the Il-20 downing. It disputes Moscow's statements over the issue, according to which, Israeli F-16 fighter aircraft used the Il-20 as a shield their latest air attack on Syria and essentially put it in the line of retaliating fire opened by the Syrian air defense.

Tel Aviv, meanwhile, claimed the anti-aircraft shooters fired "chaotically and haphazardly" having failed to make sure there were no Russian aircraft in the fire zone. According to information provided by the Israeli side, by the time the Il-20 was destroyed after being hit by a Syrian S-200 missile, the four F-16s were already well on their way home.

READ MORE: Intel Chief Boasted of IAF's 'Precision' Just Before Il-20 Shootdown -- Reports

Israel said it has been allegedly targeting Iranian military facilities in Syria, with Iran and Syria flatly denying the claims.

On September 17, a Il-20 military plane disappeared from the Russian radar screens, while on its way back to the Syrian airbase Hmeymim, which lies 35 kilometers away from the Mediterranean shore. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, at around the same time, four Israeli F-16 military jets attacked Syrian targets in Latakia, having informed the Russian side just one minute prior to the attack.

The ministry went on to state that by hiding behind the Russian jet, the Israeli pilots thereby subjected it to an attack by the Syrian air defense units, which left a total of 15 Russian military servicemen killed in the aircraft destruction.

[Sep 23, 2018] Attempt to blame Putin

Notable quotes:
"... "none of this would in any way exculpate the Israelis for the very simple reason that had the Israelis warned the Russians on time this entire tragedy might have been avoided even if the prime culprits are cowardly Israeli pilots, less than competent Syrian air defense crews or too trusting Russians. " ..."
"... No, none of this would have happened if Putin had refused to allow his bosom buddy Nazinyahu to bomb his ally, Syria, with impunity. ..."
"... It is definitely worth reading not only the quoted article but other commentaries, because the inventors of shutzpah are now collectively dancing on the graves of the 15 Russian officers. ..."
Sep 23, 2018 | www.unz.com

Andrei Martyanov , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 1:24 pm GMT

@J Since the Russians largely control the Syrian antiair defenses, one could also conclude that they share the responsibility in downing their own aircraft. Maybe the Israelis overestimated Russian readiness and response capabilities. In Tzahal, one minute is a lot of time. As Putin said, it was a tragic fuckup.

In Tzahal, one minute is a lot of time.

No, this can not be true!!! I always knew that Tzahal operates on millisecond increments. In fact, it can also travel back in time. You know, because they are that good.

Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 1:48 pm GMT

"none of this would in any way exculpate the Israelis for the very simple reason that had the Israelis warned the Russians on time this entire tragedy might have been avoided even if the prime culprits are cowardly Israeli pilots, less than competent Syrian air defense crews or too trusting Russians. "

No, none of this would have happened if Putin had refused to allow his bosom buddy Nazinyahu to bomb his ally, Syria, with impunity. Russia is being treated with contempt by the zionazi pseudostate for the simple reason that the Zios were bombing a "target" right next to the Russian Hmeimim airbase.

Nor is the loss of the Il 20 something minor. It was a very expensive, highly capable system manned by extremely well trained, hard to replace, valuable crew, each of whom had many years of irreplaceable experience. Do *not* attempt to whitewash that.

The Saker needs to stop defending the zionazi stooge and capitalist roader Putin. His "restraint" is making Russia look like a pushover and emboldening its enemies. What is the Amerikastani aircraft carrier Harry Truman doing in the Mediterranean right now, a health cruise?

Fiendly Neighbourhood Terrorist , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 1:57 pm GMT
There is absolutely nothing stopping Putin from ordering his bosom buddy Nazinyahu to immediately stop all bombing of Syria, on the pain of having his zionazi war criminals being shot out of the air. What exactly is preventing Putin from doing this, assuming that the S400 actually works as advertised? Can any of the professional Putinite propaganda purveyors, as despicable a breed as the Trumpets, Obamopologists, and Hillarybots, explain?
Kiza , says: September 21, 2018 at 2:03 pm GMT
@Felix Keverich

First, let me start by a very simple and primitive question:

Why in the world has nobody considered that the Israelis might have truly screwed-up?

'Careless' is the word I would use. Israelis are being careless, because they never have to pay a price for their aggressions and their mistakes. Putin encourages this carelessness , when he refuses to impose costs on Israel. The lesson Israelis are learning from this incident is that Russia is weak, and Putin has "little choice", but allow Israelis free hand in Syria. This is what Israelis newspapers are saying, check this out:

https://twitter.com/DanielS22647562/status/1043070311355301889 It is definitely worth reading not only the quoted article but other commentaries, because the inventors of shutzpah are now collectively dancing on the graves of the 15 Russian officers. Just as they placed sofas to watch the destruction of Gaza. Thank you for the link Felix.

Much better reading Harretz than the awe of our two Armchair Marshals, Saker and Martyanov, at the level of the IDF delegations sent to Moscow, to ensure that the Russian military does not get any "reserved" ideas (reserve the right to huff & puff).

Here is my favorite piece from this Jewish BS machine above:

unconfirmed sources from Syria have reported that Russian military police abducted and are brutally interrogating officers and soldiers from the Syrian air-defense battery that fired the fateful missile

But, but I naively thought that the Russians discovered a secret link which proves that those now brutally interrogated Syrians did 911 , not the Iraqis accused before.

I do understand that Putin does not have any good option now and that his premature and dumb commentary about the "accident" was for his own ass-covering not to protect those Jews who made such a total ass of him. But whenever the Russians die, as when the SU-24 pilot died, he learned nothing and continues on making and trusting the deals with the sponsors of terrorism.

Finally, I do note that the smart people, such as Israel Shamir, keep their mouths shut for now, till the fog clears and the emotions blow-over. I am looking forward to his next article to understand the feelings in the Russian military regarding Putin.

Andrei Martyanov , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 2:23 pm GMT
@Kiza It is definitely worth reading not only the quoted article but other commentaries, because the inventors of shutzpah are now collectively dancing on the graves of the 15 Russian officers. Just as they placed sofas to watch the destruction of Gaza. Thank you for the link Felix.

Much better reading Harretz than the awe of our two Armchair Marshals, Saker and Martyanov, at the level of the IDF delegations sent to Moscow, to ensure that the Russian military does not get any "reserved" ideas (reserve the right to ... huff & puff).

Here is my favorite piece from this Jewish BS machine above:


unconfirmed sources from Syria have reported that Russian military police abducted and are brutally interrogating officers and soldiers from the Syrian air-defense battery that fired the fateful missile
But, but I naively thought that the Russians discovered a secret link which proves that those now brutally interrogated Syrians did 911 , not the Iraqis accused before.

I do understand that Putin does not have any good option now and that his premature and dumb commentary about the "accident" was for his own ass-covering not to protect those Jews who made such a total ass of him. But whenever the Russians die, as when the SU-24 pilot died, he learned nothing and continues on making and trusting the deals with the sponsors of terrorism.

Finally, I do note that the smart people, such as Israel Shamir, keep their mouths shut for now, till the fog clears and the emotions blow-over. I am looking forward to his next article to understand the feelings in the Russian military regarding Putin.

Much better reading Harretz than the awe of our two Armchair Marshals, Saker and Martyanov

Do you want me to prove, using you as an example, for all other present here hysterical non-men, that none of you have any idea of what was and is going on by me merely introducing a simple tactical-technical parameter which defines tactical reality in any radar systems. I'll give you hint–it is reported to all military radar operating units (from ground to the sea) and is logged and accounted for (with proper adjustments in procedures) every single day, sometimes on 12 hour increments. This factor could be of prime importance, especially against the background of old S-200 AD complex. Are you game? Then we will compare who are real "armchair strategists" here.

Felix Keverich , says: September 21, 2018 at 2:59 pm GMT
@Andrei Martyanov

Much better reading Harretz than the awe of our two Armchair Marshals, Saker and Martyanov
Do you want me to prove, using you as an example, for all other present here hysterical non-men, that none of you have any idea of what was and is going on by me merely introducing a simple tactical-technical parameter which defines tactical reality in any radar systems. I'll give you hint--it is reported to all military radar operating units (from ground to the sea) and is logged and accounted for (with proper adjustments in procedures) every single day, sometimes on 12 hour increments. This factor could be of prime importance, especially against the background of old S-200 AD complex. Are you game? Then we will compare who are real "armchair strategists" here. This is some irrelevant technical mumbo-jumbo. Kiza was making a comment about political side of the issue:

Israelis have no respect for Russia and Putin. They feel emboldened by Putin's weak reaction.

Andrei Martyanov , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 4:28 pm GMT
@Felix Keverich This is some irrelevant technical mumbo-jumbo. Kiza was making a comment about political side of the issue:

Israelis have no respect for Russia and Putin. They feel emboldened by Putin's weak reaction.

This is some irrelevant technical mumbo-jumbo.

Well, then I am sure you will treat your future illnesses (God forbids you to become ill, stay healthy) at Voodoo doctors, since all this medical mumbo-jumbo is irrelevant. I heard Haiti Voodoo healthcare is great and very-very affordable.

Kiza was making a comment about political side of the issue:

Only few posts here are real comments, most of them is some hysterical weeping in an adrenaline deprived organisms upon understanding that Israel is not going to be destroyed immediately by Russians. Hence, your posts included, either hysterical reactions or trolling, mostly, sorry for being blunt, by people who have zero knowledge of Russia in general, and her military in particular. So, a wonderful unification of pseudo-patriots and all kinds of ignorant trolls happened. It is rather interesting to observe.

[Sep 23, 2018] I will be watching the Russian Mayday parades with photos of killed relatives in a totally different light from now on – those people in the photos are the victims of the Russian elite

As if in any other country this situation is different...
Putin priority was avoiding larger confrontation, which if spun out of control can lead to WWIII. And I think he was right trying to downplay the situation.
Sep 23, 2018 | www.unz.com

Kiza , says: September 21, 2018 at 5:18 am GMT

This is terribly empty ramble and it is time to stop reading this rambler. But before I stop I will quote myself:

My critique of Putin is not that he did not kill back the Turks, the US military and the Israelis, it is that he keeps making agreements with the non-agreement capable sponsors of terrorism and then entrusts the lives of his soldiers to such agreements.

In other words, the four Israeli planes should have never been tagged "friendlies", which was obviously the Putin's standing order to the Russian military based on his agreement with these sponsors of terrorism. The rest in this tragic event for Russia is what usually happens in war – fear, huge and costly mistakes, and incompetence all around.

Saker, I hope you and Martyanov both, as a reward for your insightful writing about the panicking Israeli pilots, get to read your recent articles to the 10-year old daughter of one of the Russian officers killed.

You two are the Marshals of all the Armchair Generals that you laugh at. With "intellectuals" such as you, now I understand why the Russian always die in wars like cattle and win wars by sacrificing the most/only valuable human capital (why do they call such 'a Pyrrhic victory' when it should be called 'a Russian victory'). I will be watching the Russian Mayday parades with photos of killed relatives in a totally different light from now on – those people in the photos are the victims of the Russian "elite" and the self-declared Russian Armchair Marshals.

The unfortunate Syrians are the beggars, so they cannot be choosers who their "friends" are.

J , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 6:49 am GMT
Since the Russians largely control the Syrian antiair defenses, one could also conclude that they share the responsibility in downing their own aircraft. Maybe the Israelis overestimated Russian readiness and response capabilities. In Tzahal, one minute is a lot of time. As Putin said, it was a tragic fuckup.
Harold Smith , says: September 21, 2018 at 7:18 am GMT
"I tried to post a short commentary suggesting that before we jump to conclusions about anything, we ought to wait for the fact to come out."

Well Putin didn't waste anytime jumping to the conclusion that it was an "accident," right? I blame him for being too quick to say that.

And I blame him for allowing the Israeli attacks to continue for so long. Something bad (for Russia) was bound to happen eventually. And they're war crimes, aren't they? It would've been okay with everybody if it was a Syrian plane that went down?

"So why is everybody assuming that the Israelis carefully planned the whole thing?"

King David Hotel, USS Liberty, 9/11, etc.

"First, let me start by a very simple and primitive question: Why in the world has nobody considered that the Israelis might have truly screwed-up?"

When someone "screws up" during the commission of a crime, a crime "evincing a depraved indifference to human life" and someone dies because of it, it's known in Western jurisprudence as a "depraved heart murder" not an "accident."

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/D/DepravedHeartMurder.aspx

"At this point, I need to ask another question: what would the Israelis gain from shooting down the Il-20?"

You could also ask for example: what did they gain by running over Rachel Corrie with a bulldozer? And the answer would be the same IMO: They do what they do because they're evil.

hunor , says: September 21, 2018 at 7:46 am GMT
Mr. you are a very naïve person. One doesn't have to be a
Putin or Jew hater to see with clarity. In fact we the gojims are the ones
who is in our face is being hated, and planed to be destroyed. They declaring
a new world order. The very word of new implies a departure from what we
have today, a culture of nation states. The very word of order implies Dictatorial slavery.
According to Assange , we are the last generation of free people.
The western countries being overrun by primitives who are the biological
weapons of the elites, one economical crises and everybody is against everybody,
until only the well protected elites remain. The murder of a highly trained
Russian military persons were premeditated planed murder. In earlier
analysis of yours you called this form of warfare " leapfrogging " . And the
hollywooding of the Izraeli leadersip, is a part of deceiveing the gojim.
The did what they do best they draw blood of the gojim, and getting away
with it again with an explanation, playing on our fears of not to escalating further.
Putin calling it an accident, he remind me of an other historic figure
who's name was Marshall Emanuel Grouchy. He was Napoleon's trusted general
in 1815 at waterloo , when he heard the battle drums he started to march with his
units to the opposite direction away from the warzone, so the French army was slathered.
What does it count if they are the best and bravest and have a best missile systems,
if they are being mislead and betrayed? Try to analyzing that.
judeo-christian , says: September 21, 2018 at 8:23 am GMT
What's funny is that The Saker wants to stick to the "facts" but all he gives is, when you read his article closely is apologizing for the failure of Russian policy with regards to the Israelis, a mix of contradictions, Putin-ifallibility and the usual "Russia good, rest meh"
Andrei Martyanov , says: Website September 21, 2018 at 1:21 pm GMT
@hunor Mr. you are a very naïve person. One doesn't have to be a
Putin or Jew hater to see with clarity. In fact we the gojims are the ones
who is in our face is being hated, and planed to be destroyed. They declaring
a new world order. The very word of new implies a departure from what we
have today, a culture of nation states. The very word of order implies Dictatorial slavery.
According to Assange , we are the last generation of free people.
The western countries being overrun by primitives who are the biological
weapons of the elites, one economical crises and everybody is against everybody,
until only the well protected elites remain. The murder of a highly trained
Russian military persons were premeditated planed murder. In earlier
analysis of yours you called this form of warfare " leapfrogging " . And the
hollywooding of the Izraeli leadersip, is a part of deceiveing the gojim.
The did what they do best they draw blood of the gojim, and getting away
with it again with an explanation, playing on our fears of not to escalating further.
Putin calling it an accident, he remind me of an other historic figure
who's name was Marshall Emanuel Grouchy. He was Napoleon's trusted general
in 1815 at waterloo , when he heard the battle drums he started to march with his
units to the opposite direction away from the warzone, so the French army was slathered.
What does it count if they are the best and bravest and have a best missile systems,
if they are being mislead and betrayed? Try to analyzing that.

One doesn't have to be a Putin or Jew hater to see with clarity

So, you do then, I assume, have now or had in the past Form 1A clearance to know how and what Tactical and Operational Manuals describe in terms of setting Air Defense systems, establishment of communications networks ah, never mind–I am sure "Jews The Almighty" bible of yours gives all necessary answers. Including describing issues of angular separation of targets, principles of development of command decisions from tactical to operational level and other irrelevant crap.

[Sep 23, 2018] PUTIN DOESN'T BLINK AS ISRAEL TAKES DOWN RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT IN HUGE ATTACK ON SYRIA TO DERAIL PEACE IN IDLIB by Jonathan Azaziah

Notable quotes:
"... Russian President Vladimir Putin's comments on the matter were much more Measured. His detractors, in their usual hysterical cacophonies, called him "soft". As always with Putin though, one must read between the lines. Ever the defuser, ever the peace-maker, he called what took place a "chain of tragic and chance circumstances". But later on, he made it clear that it was a "serious incident" that "requires a response". ..."
"... And then said in no uncertain terms, "As for retaliatory measures, they will be aimed first and foremost at further ensuring the safety of our military personnel and facilities in Syria. And these will be steps that everyone will notice." ..."
"... Zionists played such an odious role in the Russian-Georgian War. ..."
"... massacred the crew of the USS Liberty with the goal of blaming Egypt and starting WW3 between–you guessed it–the US and the Soviet Union. We were only minutes away from a US nuclear strike on Cairo when the Americans realized it was an 'Israeli' attack. ..."
"... Gulf War was 'Israeli' terrorist Yitzhak Shamir threatening to drop an atom bomb on Baghdad ..."
Sep 23, 2018 | www.fort-russ.com
The 'Israelis' really done did it now, didn't they? Flirting with WW3 like never before. After spending billions of dollars over the last several weeks across the Zionist media, telling the world that Baby-Seal-Clubbing, Puppy-Eating Assad was about to gas totally-vegan-completely-democratic-pro-LGBTQIA Al-Qaeda terrorists in Idlib–with chemical arms he doesn't have, mind you–they were completely caught off-guard with a massive bombshell.

Vladimir Putin had negotiated a demilitarization agreement with Neo-Ottoman "sultan" Erdogan, thus, at least in theory, averting a potential bloodbath in the last Takfiri-occupied city in Syria. The prospect of the war on the hardened Syrian battlefields finally being over proved too much for the voracious colonizers in "Tel Aviv". They simply couldn't bear seeing all of their miserable efforts, arming, training, financing and giving medical treatment to these Wahhabi mercenaries for nearly 8 years now being OFFICIALLY kaput.

Panicking, they mobilized, and in a throwback to the 1956 Tripartite Aggression against Egypt, they enlisted the help of an old ally: the French ZOG. France launched missiles from the Mediterranean to throw off Syria-Russian radar trajectories while the 'Israelis' went forward with a huge aerial assault, bombing Lattakia, Tartous, Hama and Homs all at once. As of now, at least two Syrian soldiers have been martyred and about a dozen others have been wounded. The most copious number of casualties however came from the Russian side. An Ilyushin IL-20 electronic surveillance plane was downed in the carnage and 15 Russian servicemen were murdered. 'Israel' decided to play a game of Yahoudling Roulette and used stealth tech to shadow the Russian vessel so when Syrian air defenses responded, they'd hit the Ilyushin IL-20 , not the 'Israeli' occupation air force's murder-plane. And that's exactly what happened.

The Russian military, which laid out the anatomy of the aggression in full, was fuming, "We consider these provocative actions by 'Israel' as hostile. Fifteen Russian military service members have died because of the irresponsible actions of the